h1-discussion

[soft echo]

And if they made another weapon I think an Ax or Sickle would be coolest

[hearty sierra]

Theseus really ain't so hard - just remember he loves doing his spear attack, and after his spear attack is your time to attack him

He always turns around

[whole ridge]

Yeah, every time he throws his spear, no matter distance he always walks away from you for about 6 steps or so

[hearty sierra]

Theseus fight is "don't get too hasty" basically

[whole ridge]

And I think EM Thesius doesn't have a shield

[soft echo]

EM3 Theseus and Asterius is hell (eh? eh?) With FO2

I have ptsd from that

[hearty sierra]

Em3 theseus doesn't have shield until chariot breaks down, yeah

[whole ridge]

And if he calls Artemis halfway through, super easy, Artemis only attacks center field I believe, meaning you can keep him on the outside and be safe from her

[soft echo]

I think the hardest are def Zeus and Demeter

[hearty sierra]

Hopefully it helps if you fight theseus against in the future

[whole ridge]

Demeter isn't too bad

Zeus though I can agree

[soft echo]

Wdym!?

Demeter does the big snowy circles

[hearty sierra]

Okay, question for y'all - did theseus come into the ring just to fight zag? And if he did, how does he call upon the gods?

And that also leaves the question of demeter

What are your headcanons?

[soft echo]

I'm gonna sound real dumb but what does headcanon mean

[hearty sierra]

Your "theories"

[soft echo]

Ah ok

[hearty sierra]

We know that according to lore, theseus is the champion of Elysium

Does he have the gods' aid while he got that title?

[soft echo]

I think despite how the game portrays them, the gods are still quite arrogant and respect his power and previous authority as king and hero of Athens

So that's why they're willing

[whole ridge]

Yeh, I never have had him summon Poseidon on me though, which is a bit odd

And I assume he can't summon Hermes

[soft echo]

He can't

[whole ridge]

Thought so

[soft echo]

That would be mad annoying

[hearty sierra]

He can't summon hermes because hermes doesn't have an attack; he always summons gods that you don't have the boons of

[whole ridge]

Imagine if he had like, a mega low chance to summon Hermes and it's the harshest of his summons

[hearty sierra]

So if you always have poseidon boons, he'll never call on poseidon

[soft echo]

Tbh the poseidon one is kind of a joke

[whole ridge]

How many gods are there again not counting Hermes?

[soft echo]

7?

[hearty sierra]

Zeus, poseidon, ares, artemis, dio, aphro, demeter

[granite ether]

8

[whole ridge]

Gotcha, so literally 1 shy of being able to force all on yourself

[hearty sierra]

Hermes and chaos as supplementing gods

[whole ridge]

I think

[hearty sierra]

You can force 5 max, actually

2 short

[granite ether]

chaos isn't even a god
they be a primordial entity 😉

[whole ridge]

Really?

[modern garnet]

if you get real lucky you can get 5 in tart, which means you can get 8 by styx?

[whole ridge]

I thought "well if you get your set 4 in Tartarus, can use trinkets to force one in Asphodel and then Elysium"

Making 6

[hearty sierra]

Styx doesn't really grant new gods, I don't think

And tart doesn't always award 4

I usually get 2 gods in tart

[modern garnet]

you can get 5 in tart if you buy a boon from a shop and the next room is a god you don't yet have

[hearty sierra]

Having 5 gods already sucks, anyway

[modern garnet]

well the pool is diluted... but imagine all the duo opportunities

wait no

[hearty sierra]

But I can attest (due to mods) that theseus just calls a random god if you have all of them

[whole ridge]

Gotcha

[high island]

5-god pools are fine.

He'll call Lady Artemis.

[hearty sierra]

Too diluted to find the duos/leggies you want

4 is enough

3 is preferable

[soft echo]

Omg it's Nyaanyaa, the source of infinite Hades info

[modern garnet]

how would you get a 3 pool

if you have 3 gods then the pool is inactive

[soft echo]

Not take certain rooms?

[hearty sierra]

Purging and not picking gods

[modern garnet]

purging doesn't remove a god from your pool

[hearty sierra]

The pool has 7 gods

[modern garnet]

I don't think we're talking about the same pool

[high island]

Just get all the gods in one run, and complete the Monthly Challenge for that in the process.

[modern garnet]

ezpz

[whole ridge]

Challenge?

[high island]

The Hades Monthly Challenges are pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat.

That one is from December last year. You can find all the previous challenges on the linked spreadsheet in the pins.

[soft echo]

Neat

[whole ridge]

Ahh, it's a fan-challenge essentially

I thought it was like, an in-game thing

And was confused

Also do I have to keep chatting Hades up to unlock EM4, or is there some other pre-req

I'm already past run 10

[soft echo]

Work Orders on The Contractor

Titled "Extremer Measures"

[whole ridge]

I already have work orders cleared our as of current though. It's not in there xD

Yet

[soft echo]

Idk then

[whole ridge]

I'll double check when I get home tho

Gonna be playing for a hit before running errands and getting first jab at pharmacy

[soft echo]

Epic

[whole ridge]

Also is seamare the most rare or middle rare fish in Elysium?

[wise oasis]

Seamare is the legendary

[whole ridge]

Sweet!

I've gotten 2 xD

Back to back Elysium fishing spots

Best 6 Nectar ever

[soft echo]

Wait what is a legendary fish?

[whole ridge]

3 fish per biome, standard, rare, legendary

Excepting Erebus

Erebus has no fishies.

Chaos has fishes tho

[soft echo]

Chaos decided to give me 1 fish ever in my 165 hours in the game

[whole ridge]

I have gotten two Projelly from Chaos up to now

He's probably gonna be the bigger pain in regards to finishing codex

[soft echo]

Codex contractor and fated table thing are what i need for 100% ing at this point

[proper oasis]

This is getting on my nerves now whenever I didnt want asterius to show up he was right there and now i can get the awakening phrase he’s just gone

[whole ridge]

I just need Asterius for awakening phrase now myself

I get the butterfly orb more often than not though

[terse finch]

i just notice i miss 2 keepsake one near the feather and the other near the stone sword, what are they

[dusky wedge]

One should be Chaos, and the other one is someone you’ll meet much later in the game

[whole ridge]

*3 keepsakes

1 isn't shown

[azure osprey]

Dude

[whole ridge]

And yeah, Chaos is probably the one near the feather, assuming it's the last in the second row, otherwise probably someone ya meet after you complete your first run

[azure osprey]

The love lady

Has the worst call

In the game

[whole ridge]

Gotta full call her, it also disables bosses for like a full second

[whole ridge]

Have you completed a run yet?

[terse finch]

no i know 1 is the horn but the other?

@whole ridge

[whole ridge]

Demeter is one of them, the other two are Hades who ya can't get for a little while and someone you've not met yet but also won't be for a little while

[hearty sierra]

Actually charming rats works wonders

Rats, satyrs, the zappy green things, greatshields...

If Hades is lazering you then the charm actually cancels the Lazer

[whole ridge]

Regular enemies usually are charmed for an okay bit

[hearty sierra]

But yeah against bosses you have to charge it till it's full for the call to be useful against bosses

[whole ridge]

And it again stuns bosses for about a single second, long enough to disable attacks like the laser, but not long enough to matter

[hearty sierra]

Hades has many three-hit comboes that you'd like to interrupt, though

[whole ridge]

Which is why ya full call on bosses, to max damage

[hearty sierra]

So does asterius' beyblade attack

[whole ridge]

Ye, but the Beyblade is only on EM3 so irrelevant to him at the moment

Also when I get to EM3, recommended kill order?

[hearty sierra]

Her call does a flat 2.5k regardless of rarity so I actually recommend taking it if there's no better boon

[whole ridge]

Ye

[hearty sierra]

Asterius >>> Theseus, even more so

Asterius is LETHAL

[whole ridge]

Besides it also makes the next call of the next rarity higher guaranteed too, if ya come across one

Is there a way to come across a Heroic rarity naturally by the way? Or does rarity need to be boosted by some means for it?

[hearty sierra]

Don't think they spawn naturally

Has to be boostes by eury's nectar/replace boond

[raw herald]

You can get a heroic replacement boon

If the original boon was epic

[whole ridge]

Gotcha

I know the replacement

I was asking about naturally

[raw herald]

But thats the only way, other than rare crop/ambrosia

[whole ridge]

In other words only by boon replacement or Eury boon upgrading

[raw herald]

And rare crop

[hearty sierra]

An early exclusive access can help you find heroic boons really easily, though

[whole ridge]

Rare crop?

[terse finch]

what is the file I need to backup for not losing my save data?

[hearty sierra]

Demeter boon

[whole ridge]

Ahhh

Oh yeah

[raw herald]

It's a boon from Demeter that makes 1-3 boons common then upgrades their rarity every 3 chambers

[whole ridge]

The one that boosts rarity by chamber

Super nice in early game xD. Does it count the mini-chambers in Styx?

[hearty sierra]

Mind elaborating? The game should auto-save

[hearty sierra]

It does!

[raw herald]

Yes it does

[hearty sierra]

Pom flower counts too

[whole ridge]

Gotcha, ez take then when it comes up.

9 rooms for Heroic is nice

Especially counting the mini-rooms

[hearty sierra]

12 rooms for heroic, actually

[whole ridge]

And it's by chamber and not encounter?

3 to rare, 3 to epic, 3 to heroic

[hearty sierra]

Oh wait

9

Yeah math is dumb

I am dumb

By encounter

[whole ridge]

And it affects 3? Or is how many based on boon rarity when ya pick it up?

[hearty sierra]

1 if common, 2 if rare, 3 if epic

[whole ridge]

Gotcha

[hearty sierra]

Impossible to get heroic

AFAIK

[raw herald]

And the ones it picks are random

[whole ridge]

That would be why I ignored it when I first saw it xD. It was common and most my others were Epic

[raw herald]

And it can't pick Hermes boons, that would be broken if it did

[whole ridge]

Oh my, it can't pick Hermes? Nice~

[hearty sierra]

Ah, yea, make Rush delivery Heroic

[whole ridge]

I assume it can't pick Chaos or Legendaries either?

[raw herald]

19 gold side hustle

Can't pick chaos, legendary or duos

Can't get heroic chaos boons anyway

[whole ridge]

Ye

[hearty sierra]

+4 dashes lmao

[whole ridge]

XD

[raw herald]

I've had +4 dashes before, but it was from Eurydice

Never had heroic RD

[whole ridge]

+4 dash with Athena, may as well be Invincible xD

[hearty sierra]

Even if you're not invulnerable, you'd be getting out of attack radius really quickly

[whole ridge]

Oh yeah

By the by, Hades call, how useful is it? Not accounting for the Keepsake requirement

[raw herald]

It's great for damage

Especially if you have rush delivery

[hearty sierra]

I use it if I don't have a call

At styx, of course

Pure hilariousness

The comedy of it all makes it worth it

The fact that Hades' call is quite good is just icing

[shadow kernel]

+4 dashes with Gilgamesh

Imagine

Also yeah hades call is really good for damage

[whole ridge]

Gotcha

Take it invisibility disables the enemies until it wears off then?

Oh and yes, it does sound pretty funny using it on Hades xD

[azure osprey]

I finished the game

Well

Technically

I got the ending

[hearty sierra]

Well done!

Credits?

[azure osprey]

Which was kinda disappointing

Yeah

[hearty sierra]

Persephone is home?

Well

Here's the thing

There's MORE STORY

[azure osprey]

Holy

[whole ridge]

Just not main stuffs

[azure osprey]

How do I progress

[whole ridge]

play more

[hearty sierra]

Now your next objective is to get a maxed heart gauge with 5 of the 8 main gods

5 or 6, can't remember

[azure osprey]

Also I still don’t know how to unlock the keepsakes of the hades and that other dude

I don’t remember his name

He’s in the third area

[hearty sierra]

Just give them nectar

[azure osprey]

He’s kinda a prick

[whole ridge]

Also I wonder if Zeus actually knows you aren't aiming for Olympus but he helps anyways to not get caught for his end of the whole deal

[azure osprey]

Yeah here’s the thing

I can’t

[hearty sierra]

Pat? He gives you frickin death defiance

[whole ridge]

Gotta chat Hades up a bit

[hearty sierra]

Have you seen my username??

[azure osprey]

Yeah but he’s like

[hearty sierra]

He's awesome!

[azure osprey]

Get away from me

Don’t talk to me

[whole ridge]

He's just depressed because he doesn't have Achilles in his life

[hearty sierra]

Anyway, yeah, you just gotta talk to them more before you can gift them nectar

[whole ridge]

Remember, the two are a gay couple

[hearty sierra]

Zeus, Poseidon, Artemis, Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Hermes, Dionysus

Max 5 of these 8 gods' heart gauges

And you'll get the epilogue

[whole ridge]

Oooo

[hearty sierra]

Then the game's story would officially be over

But then there's also the subplots

Nyx and chaos, Achilles and pat, Orphy and eury, Bouldy and Sisyphus

And romancing, of course

[whole ridge]

I call them a waste of Nectar and Ambrosia until ya get the companions first tho

[hearty sierra]

Lots to do even after you roll credits

[whole ridge]

Sisyphus and Bouldy best couple

Hands down

[hearty sierra]

Also I'm still discovering new dialogue after 200 hours so there's that if you want to be a completionist

[azure osprey]

Don’t remind me

About that SNAKE

[whole ridge]

RIP romance with Dusa

Friendzoned at the end

But hey, can tumble in bed with death and bats tho

And honestly Nyx is lucky I like Chaos so much after what she did to Dusa

Otherwise I'd not be finishing her subplot

still waiting on Dusa bond, have maxed affection

Would like my Ambrosia back so I can not worry about it xD

[hearty sierra]

Aw just let her keep it

It's a token of your affection

[whole ridge]

I would love to, but 10 Ambrosia is a lot :x

I gotta work through the "Nyx a bish" Dusa subplot first

I assume I do at least

[azure osprey]

I just keep@giving them nectar right

[azure osprey]

You know I am glad nyx is mean to DUSA I HATE HER

[whole ridge]

How dare

[azure osprey]

I HATE YOU DUSA

I HOPE YOU THEY FEED YOU TO THE BONE HYDRA

[hearty sierra]

Yep

And then ambro

And they have little quests to complete

Like Hermes wants you to beat charon twice in a row, ares wants you to kill 20k enemies, Dio just wants you to gift ambro 10 times

[azure osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/dies-cat-gif-21483615

[hearty sierra]

It's easyyyyy

But yeah it's their way of staggering your progress so you can't just "finish the game" in 40 hours or whatever

[whole ridge]

Dionysus assuming you've done Dusa's relationship should already be done

[azure osprey]

How do I grind 20k enemies

I haven’t even killed that much

[twin thistle]

kill more

[whole ridge]

The pact quest that increases enemy count

[hearty sierra]

That, yes

[azure osprey]

Good idea

[hearty sierra]

You can actually farm the numbskulls that appear, I think

That's the easiest, most braindead way

[lunar crane]

[whole ridge]

Dusa is best girl

[lunar crane]

yes

[hearty sierra]

Where's the wriggly hands lmao

It cracks me up

[lunar crane]

[hearty sierra]

Lmao I love it

Dusa with hands is cursed

[lunar crane]

yes

[whole ridge]

But I mean, she had hands in life

But then a rude little boy named Percius came along

[azure osprey]

I don’t understand zeus favor

[azure osprey]

Also hermes is way easier

You just need to equip his keepsake while fully maxed

Athena,Artemis and Demeter are also confusing

[whole ridge]

2 times in a row as in in fights with him, or as in twice in one run (if that's even possible)

[ember cypress]

How does the $1200 Titan's Blood work?
I haven't been able to buy it but is it like one purchase per heat, or is it random, can I farm it on heat 0 in the future, etc.?

[hearty sierra]

Nope

Twice in separate runs

[hearty sierra]

You have to accumulate 1200 gold in a single run

Certainly possible, though hard

[whole ridge]

It's random between it and a 1k diamond.

Usually ya just don't buy going there, it ain't actually that bad

Best done on heat 0 tho

[dusky wedge]

A lucky Hermes money boon certainly helps

[whole ridge]

If you can take Charon "borrowing" from him helps too for the 300

The price is unaffected by pact deal and membership card tho

[fleet echo]

u can also maybe squeeze out some gold from the keep sake if u youre confident you dont need acorn or tooth for final fight

[whole ridge]

So it's always 1k/1.2k

Also usually can get a bit from the Satyr holes

I like that the King Vermin is like, a legit boss based off the health bar, it's funny xD. "Oh, it's just a tiny vermin" sreeches, "oh..." and the health bar in first encounter has "tiny vermin" on it xD

[fleet echo]

tiny vermin is so funny as an actual boss

cuz its always the little ones that you cant just catch thats the most annoying lmfasldk

[raw herald]

Someone just got a 53s Elysium (igt) in an unseeded, unmodded speedrun

In 32 heat!!!

[whole ridge]

Forgive me for being skeptical of 53 seconds

[raw herald]

I was too

The fastest recorded one previously was 1:08

And that was huge as well

[fleet echo]

53??

[whole ridge]

How can one even clear rooms that fast, let alone beat the boss(es)

[raw herald]

https://youtu.be/v6jtYfllO34
Watch from 11:09 onwards

Free rooms, lots of them

And lucky enemies with BP2 allowing armored witches to appear early

Chariots are also really fast

[fleet echo]

holy

the cast cycle on the boss was really fast too thats amazing

[wise oasis]

Man's insane

[raw herald]

"the Chiron guy"

[wise oasis]

He has a bunch of really good "slow" aspects

Gilgamesh and Arthur too

[raw herald]

Zag spear

[whole ridge]

Beo cast beasts with Poseidon is what I gathered from that

Cannot read Chinese so did not know what boons where what

[high island]

You don't. You get rooms you don't need to clear.

[fleet echo]

TRUE

[wise oasis]

Poseidon cast on beo is really good because of the duo synergy

[high island]

And Beowulf just phases bosses immediately when the build is online.

[wise oasis]

Opens up mirage shot, and you win immediately with mirage

[high island]

Beowulf wants Mirage Shot, which just straight up doubles your Cast damage on Flares because it's bugged.

Should be 30% damage, but it's 100%.

[raw herald]

Also epic RD, multiple braids, epic cast damage, more stones, charged shot

It's basically the ideal build for beowulf

This run just happened to get the ideal free rooms

Was literally 1 room away from being the same as routed

[whole ridge]

And does Beo cast just ignore shields? Seemed like it never failed to hit Theseus

[wise oasis]

That makes beo have the wr in every catagory doesn't it?

[raw herald]

Yes lmao

[wise oasis]

Charged shot can go through shields, he has that hammer

[raw herald]

Including modded

[whole ridge]

Ahh

Again cannot read Chinese so didn't know xD

[raw herald]

I'm going off of boon icons

And numbers

[whole ridge]

Those tell at least me nothing :v

[fleet echo]

same i kinda understood what he was taking

[fleet echo]

its an aoe too

[whole ridge]

Either way I get it xD

[thorn marsh]

i cant play beo even though its such fastness ; - ;

[whole ridge]

I gathered as well the way you play Beo is doing like, in the face cast bashes

Was he loading one per bash?

[raw herald]

Depends on the enemy

[whole ridge]

Gotcha

[raw herald]

And how his build was at that point

Ideally you'd have mirage shot by Lernie, meaning you only need one cast to kill each head

So the fight was slower in this run

[whole ridge]

What's mirage shot do?

[thorn marsh]

it doubles ur cast

[raw herald]

Each time you cast, you create a secondary cast that does 30% of the original casts damage

[thorn marsh]

normally it doesnt

but its bugged for flares

[whole ridge]

Gotcha

[raw herald]

However on Beowulf/Dio cast hera it's not 30%, it's 100%

[whole ridge]

Because it's cast is just an AOE blast

[thorn marsh]

these are flares

[whole ridge]

I know >~>

[thorn marsh]

beowulf icy flare is so insanely good

[wise oasis]

Same thing happens with cluster rockets if I'm not wrong

[raw herald]

Yes

[thorn marsh]

cluster bomb damage reduc gets negated by rocket bomb 80 base YES

[high island]

And to think some people thought Beowulf dropped down from top tier when Charged Flight was nerfed in the 1.0 patch.

[whole ridge]

What I saw was point blank charges for the flare xD my friend can't play shields because all he ever does is dash strikes, he doesn't throw or charge

[raw herald]

Nobody knew how to play Beowulf back then

[high island]

Right. You don't want to waste time charging up your Dragon Rush more than the minimum amount in a speedrun.

[raw herald]

Then wriste went "huh, mirage shot is kinda good"

[spice hearth]

oh man, has the meta changed

is Beo really good now???

[raw herald]

Yes it's broken

[thorn marsh]

it was always really good

[whole ridge]

Was it ever not?

[raw herald]

It has been good for a while tho

[wise oasis]

Beo has every wr rn

[thorn marsh]

hasnt even had any changes

[high island]

That's mad rude, and wrong.

[thorn marsh]

people just know how to play now

[high island]

You're aware I mained Beowulf in Blood Price, yes?

[raw herald]

Heartbreak flourish time

[whole ridge]

My friend sure doesn't xD with a decent Beo build he only dash striked and died in Elysium

Person with clears in the 30's roundabout mind you

[spice hearth]

Although, from what it sounds like, i still don't play Beo properly haha

[whole ridge]

So he ain't a newbie perse

[spice hearth]

i always went Dio Flare with the Dio-Zeus Duo because it felt cool

[raw herald]

It's still good

[thorn marsh]

thats still good

[raw herald]

Probably the third best flare

[wise oasis]

That's not terrible, but getting mirage shot on beo doubles your damage

[thorn marsh]

its just hard to get going

[wise oasis]

Dio flare is fun if chaos is on your side

[whole ridge]

Is Flare damage based on cast damage or attack damage?

[raw herald]

Cast

[wise oasis]

But it's more reliant on chaos than the others

[thorn marsh]

cast

[whole ridge]

So amp up cast damage as much as ya can as well with Beo, gotcha

[spice hearth]

yep, it's the Cast aspect of the shield

[thorn marsh]

just keep pomming ur cast

and dont stop

[whole ridge]

Ye

And I assume hope for a lucky Eury boost on cast?

[high island]

Yes, but I was grinding 56 Heat in the last period before 1.0 came out. That was everything but RI3 instead of RI4 at the time. Charged Flight alone couldn't carry you through that.

[raw herald]

Better to use nectar in the hope that you'll get a high rarity rush delivery

[high island]

Then school started again and I had no more time.

[whole ridge]

Use nectar?

Oh nevermind

Her rarity boosting one for next 3 boons

[thorn marsh]

that would be a waste

[whole ridge]

Hindsight the boon rarity up is probably most optimal

[raw herald]

Cast rarity only really helps in Tartarus

And even then, not that much

[thorn marsh]

the only thing u need for a full beo build is mirage shot and poms

[whole ridge]

Oh yeah, rarity is mostly just a difference of a pom

[raw herald]

Much less, lvl2 common is 96 damage, lvl 1 epic is 84

Later poms yes tbf

[high island]

It's not optimized for Beowulf specifically, but I wrote a Cast Build Guide here if you want to take a look. #h1-builds-and-combat message

[whole ridge]

Gotcha gotcha

[high island]

Only difference for Beowulf really is that you want to double down on getting Mirage Shot asap because it's broken.

[fleet echo]

btw jolted counts towards priveleged status right

[raw herald]

Yes

[high island]

All of the 8 status curses that are listed here count. https://hades.gamepedia.com/Status_effects#Status_Curses

[fleet echo]

yeah thanks i just wanted to make sure cuz im in a run right now and priveleged status didnt proc apparently i forgot to change family favorite huhu

[whole ridge]

I assume from the looks he was using Poseidon cast, so would Riptide also help at least a bit in such a case or just unnecessary with damage output as is?

[raw herald]

Rip current boosts the call

Unless you mean razor shoals?

[whole ridge]

I mean the status Riptide that adds a DOT on enemies affected by skills with pushback

[raw herald]

Ruptured is good yes

But not necessary

[whole ridge]

Yes

Sorry I thought it was called Riptide xD

[raw herald]

Wave pounding is the best T2 on Beowulf I think

[thorn marsh]

wave pounding is definitely the best

[whole ridge]

That's the one that deals damage when hitting a wall?

[thorn marsh]

its just alot of damage on bosses

[raw herald]

More boss damage

[whole ridge]

Ohh

[raw herald]

+40% at epic

[brisk trail]

howdy, been playing a lot of Hades since it came out on Game Pass and thought I'd come join this server

[whole ridge]

I forget things like this easy xD

[high island]

Welcome~!

[lunar crane]

look im green

[brisk trail]

thank

[high island]

You're green!

Next, become yellow!

[brisk trail]

wow

[fleet echo]

heyo!

[lunar crane]

[brisk trail]

kia ora

[thorn marsh]

bwave doesnt help that much on beo Sadge

[high island]

Now it's not even Breaking Wave anymore? Just bwave... bruh.

[thorn marsh]

i dont feel like typing breaking ; - ;

[brisk trail]

been trying my hardest to beat the game, nearly came close yesterday after a 6 hour livestream lol

[vestal condor]

So I thought pierced butterfly effect remained after swapping but is that not true?

[high island]

You speedrunners spend 5 hours resetting in Tartarus for one run, but you can't be bothered to spell out boon names.

[thorn marsh]

its not

[thorn marsh]

YES YES WE DO AND NO NO WE DONT

[vestal condor]

Damn I legit would’ve done 100+ runs starting with butterfly and swapping immediacy

[brisk trail]

🅱️wave

[high island]

Pierced Butterfly is not really practical if you want DPS. There are better options. It's fun for no-hit attempts, though.

And also great for practice because you pay more attention to not getting hit.

[fleet echo]

but isnt butterfly kinda a must if youre running hera

[brisk trail]

epic got ma green

[fleet echo]

wait i meant hestia

[wise oasis]

no

Starting shackle/rose is generally better

[fleet echo]

oh huh didnt know i thought for hestia u just go butterfly the whole run and rack like up to 40-50% bonus damage and just make do with gods u see along the way

[high island]

High heat start is Shattered Shackle or , and speedruns take Conch Shell for Tidal Dash start.

[raw herald]

Or lightning strike

[high island]

That works too tbh. It's still a rail, ultimately.

[raw herald]

It does

Just need epic RD and pommed jolted

[fleet echo]

RD?

[wise oasis]

rush delivery

gives you more damage based on your move speed

[high island]

And then you're mainly looking for any decent Special boon and as many Strike and Lunge boons as you can get from Master Chaos.

Maybe Smoldering Air if Lord Zeus shows up, maybe take Thunder Signet into Asphodel for that.

Cyclops Jerkies and Eris Bangles are great, too, especially with the Boneless Hourglass.

[thorn marsh]

gives u global damage based on your move speed

[stoic violet]

Have the developers said anything about any big gameplay updates or dlc? I have a lot of fun with this game, but some extra stuff would be cool!

[fleet echo]

oh huh i dont think ive used RD that much

[thorn marsh]

pair best with hyper sprint that gives u 100% movespeed when u dash

[thorn marsh]

nah the game is finished

[stoic violet]

Dang.... X3

Honestly though it's a 9/10 or so for me

[fleet echo]

is beo good on its first level or nah?

[thorn marsh]

yeah beo is fine on its first level

[hearty sierra]

The area isn't the main selling point anyway

[thorn marsh]

maxed beowulf does help though

[fleet echo]

yeah its just some aspects like chaos or hestia arent really that good till u level them up

[rapid forum]

Anyone tried shackle beo?

I would try it myself if my brain doesn't blue screen everytime I dash in hades

[hollow hawk]

Yeah

Its really amazing in tart, as most shackle starts are

But then begins to fall off a bit if you dont find a decent cast in tart

[rapid forum]

Figures

[craggy pumice]

i was on track for my fastest time by around 2 minutes

then i got my first ever 5 sack :)

[thorn marsh]

ooh what time were u in styx?

[craggy pumice]

i entered at 12 minutes

i got 16:39 for the final time

i melted hades so fast aswell

[thorn marsh]

what weapon?

[craggy pumice]

eris is insanely fast

eris

[thorn marsh]

ah

eris

eris is stinky

[raw herald]

Eris is stinky indeed

Embrace achilles

[thorn marsh]

or hera

or beo

i havent played hades in so long lul

[wise oasis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/858744757936193542/878632381601443840/unknown.png

chaos why

[terse finch]

why are you allowed to share images

[wise oasis]

Its a link

[thorn marsh]

are u playing a a cast weapon?

[wise oasis]

was on hera

couldnt really avoid attacking

Had underworld customs on and purged my special

[thorn marsh]

option 1 is fine

[wise oasis]

I took 1 then died, its fine I died to lernie twice

[thorn marsh]

oh lul

[azure osprey]

How do I buy the 3rd stage of hades

Since you need to unlock it

Somewhere?

Idk what you guys call it

Em4?

[brisk trail]

after you beat hades for the first time you unlock the pact of punishment, which you can use to add a self-imposed challenge to your runs. one of those added conditions is called 'extreme measures' and gives bosses a new technique, starting with the furies. the final, fourth rank gives hades his new 3rd stage (and some other stuff), hence em4

[hearty sierra]

Okay uh

[thorn marsh]

u need to buy it from the house contracter

[hearty sierra]

After a rather fascinating discussion with aggy

I downloaded it a mod from nexus

And now I officially have FO15

The butterfly ball deals 200 damage a second

[thorn marsh]

BUT HOW FAST IS THE SPAWN RATE?

[hearty sierra]

Instant

[thorn marsh]

aight

gonna use that mod

[hearty sierra]

Meg basically teleports

[thorn marsh]

to skyrocket my times Kappa

[raw herald]

You'll just die

[hearty sierra]

Yeah, unless you hyperpower Zag like I did, you're not going to even get past asphodel

Can't even hit meg

Had to use hunting blades, flurry cast, greater recall and 100 casts

[raw herald]

Brb gonna mod in legendary rush delivery

+150%

[hearty sierra]

Why stop at 150 lmao

[raw herald]

Natural progression from heroic

If it's flexible then I'll do whatever

[hearty sierra]

But yeah the modding scene in this game is surprisingly well fleshed out

[raw herald]

It's the only reason I have a sub 7

[hearty sierra]

Lmao I also have a sub-7 on the rail with mods

technically with codex you can go directly to hades... So sub-1 runs are possible

But the game (rightfully) doesn't count those

Jesus the flame wheels are homing missiles now

Okay, I was wrong, the most lethal enemy is the splitter witch

Hitscan projectiles that deal more damage on impact

[ivory minnow]

hey is aspect of guan yu good

Idk if this goes here lol

[hearty sierra]

Not at low levels, but great at high levels

You have to have it minimum at lv. 4 to negate the health penalty IMO

Interestingly enough, this game treats lasers like projectiles - it doesn't apply a flat damage per second and instead deals damage like if a projectile hit you

I.e. it's affected by FO

[ivory minnow]

oh ok

ty

[velvet gale]

😦 EM4 is such a dissapointment I expected it a lot harder..

[short glen]

How the heck are some people so good at games

[stoic flame]

guess i will never know

😔

[signal aspen]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659820450297282585/878654794460430386/Screenshot_412.png

barge pb

[velvet gale]

thats pretty fast

[stoic flame]

2 mins 🥴

me with my

4 mins tartarus

[signal aspen]

git gud

[stoic flame]

nevah

[thorn marsh]

Sadge

[hearty sierra]

Bruuuuuuh

[velvet gale]

But to be fair it was base form EM4 next time I m putting in a lot of punishments.

[rapid forum]

FO2 EM4

[velvet gale]

you must be joking 😐

Hard labor Maxed, FO maxed and ofc Middle Management at least maybe more

[rapid forum]

Middle management does not have any effect on EM4

[velvet gale]

oh damn 🤔 soo Benefits Package maxed then?

[stoic flame]

is FO2 hard

[rapid forum]

well BP only affects elite normies

[stoic flame]

because FO1 feels like literally nothing

[velvet gale]

🤔 so what can I put expect for CP to make the fight even harder then

I though I can buff his summons

[hearty sierra]

Y'all break my heart

[rapid forum]

yea

[velvet gale]

btw FO0 seems harder than FO1

[hearty sierra]

Just go for 32 heat why don't you

Finish skelly's statues

[thorn marsh]

please explain

[stoic flame]

FO1 feels exactly the same

[velvet gale]

well sure why not EM4 heat 32 I wanted to do that earlier anyway

[velvet gale]

FO0 is slow you fall asleep waiting for the enemy move . FO1 seems like normal speed.

[thorn marsh]

Kappa

[stoic flame]

🥴

[rapid forum]

once you've played on FO1 or FO2, it's pretty hard to go back to no FO

[velvet gale]

na hundreds of hours on hell mode 😐

[stoic flame]

what

[thorn marsh]

after playing with FO2 and FO1 for so long id probably lose if i went back to FO0

[velvet gale]

with F01

[thorn marsh]

well

ur very much use to FO1

so FO0 is just like slow motion

[stoic flame]

my game must be bugged or something

because they both feel the exact same to me

[thorn marsh]

ur game isnt bugged

[rapid forum]

the spawn time is noticeable diff

[thorn marsh]

FO1 isnt that much

[stoic flame]

time to

notice

[velvet gale]

but Champions felt harder than Redacted on EM 😐 not sure why

[thorn marsh]

because asterius bull man can instant teleport and break ur lungs

[stoic flame]

i hate that

spin attack

how do you attack him with melee while he's doing thta

literally impossible

[velvet gale]

You..dont?

[stoic flame]

but

sped

[velvet gale]

either tank it or dont attack him while he use the whirlwind

[thorn marsh]

u could empty dash it

with the iframes

[velvet gale]

well technically spear/shield special

I dont think I could I frame it

[thorn marsh]

u can iframe dad spin attack

[velvet gale]

but I m average player 🤷‍♂️

[thorn marsh]

with a empty dash

[stoic flame]

yeah there's just not enough i frames for asterius spin

i think

[velvet gale]

that comes from mussle memory though

[stoic flame]

he just

keeps going

forever

until i die

😢

[velvet gale]

Redacted spin isnt too hard to iframe

[hearty sierra]

We are in discussion

No need to censor

[velvet gale]

You have a point

But why break a good habit?

[signal aspen]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659820450297282585/878658050301526016/Screenshot_414.png

2 sack mentality 3 sack

[thorn marsh]

SADGEEEEEEEEEEEE

[signal aspen]

i hate this game

[thorn marsh]

yep

game sucks for speedrunning

why are u speedrunning it Kappa

[stoic flame]

me when

[velvet gale]

Yeah agree 🤔 better to go play Bastion

its ridiculously hard to time perfect dashes on controller. 😐 that sucks for speedurning and why I m not doing it.

[thorn marsh]

what?

what does perfect dashes have to do with speedrunning?

[stoic flame]

perfect dashes?

what counts as a

perfect

dash

[thorn marsh]

i got no idea what a perfect dash is

[velvet gale]

I mean as fast as possible

[stoic flame]

._

.

[thorn marsh]

hades doesnt have perfect dashes

[stoic flame]

dont you just

press a button

[thorn marsh]

the dash speed doesnt change

[stoic flame]

yes

[thorn marsh]

no matter how u do it

[velvet gale]

gentlemen there is a cd before you can dash again

[thorn marsh]

and u cant change that

[velvet gale]

the point is to hit the button as fast as possible once the cd is up

[thorn marsh]

literally at all

[stoic flame]

but

whats the point

[thorn marsh]

u dont need to

[stoic flame]

you dont have to

[thorn marsh]

there's no point

[stoic flame]

keep dashing

[thorn marsh]

all u do is dash attack

[velvet gale]

you still go faster 🤷‍♂️

[thorn marsh]

no u really dont

it

[stoic flame]

where you wanna go lmao

there is just

one area

[thorn marsh]

it

[stoic flame]

kill people

[thorn marsh]

it doesnt really matter

[stoic flame]

yes

[thorn marsh]

and plus most weapons do things in between the dash cd that are very beneficial

so

yeah none uses perfect dashes for speedruns in hades LOL

[velvet gale]

you still go faster

every fragment of second counts

[thorn marsh]

no

it really doesnt

[stoic flame]

but whats the point of going faster if ur just

not hitting

foes

[thorn marsh]

ur just adding unneeded difficulty to speedrunning hades

[velvet gale]

Excuse me for being perfectionist

[stoic flame]

...

[thorn marsh]

the main point to NOT speedrunning hades is when u hit a certain point there's just too much rng

[velvet gale]

which is exactly why you should min/max the non rng or rng you can control

[thorn marsh]

but perfect dashing doesnt do that

[near dune]

How many times do you have to fight Meg and her sisters to get her secret stash companion

I’ve fought them so many times

[thorn marsh]

u need to beat her and talk to her at the house

[stoic flame]

^

giver her ambrosia

[near dune]

I do but the heart is locked

[thorn marsh]

then just unlucky bruh

[near dune]

I’ve talked to her maybe 15 times after the heart is still locked

Bruh

[stoic flame]

lmao

[near dune]

😂

[velvet gale]

Well suit yourself 🙂

[stoic flame]

rng is cruel to me as well

sad af

[velvet gale]

yeah rng can be cruel...that 17 runs wihtnout athena so I couldnt evne give her nectar wasnt nice

[hearty sierra]

@velvet gale the point they were making was that by using your time on dashing, you're wasting time not damaging

[thorn marsh]

u could also just mash dash LOL

[velvet gale]

I am awared. But there are times where you have nothing to kill and still need to do a few dashes for next room.

[azure osprey]

Yeah how do I unlock extreme measures 4

[thorn marsh]

so just mash dash homie

[hearty sierra]

Imagine having 100 death defiances. Now IMAGINE PAT REFILLS THEM ALL

Infinite power

[velvet gale]

thats slow though

as infinite as 5 dd cna be

[azure osprey]

Mr defiance

Aka

Hades expert

[hearty sierra]

Theoretically, a frame-perfect dash would be faster; and yet, speedrunners still mash dash

[azure osprey]

How do I unlock this special extreme measures 4

[thorn marsh]

purchase it from the house contractor

[hearty sierra]

Purchase it at the house contractor's

[azure osprey]

There’s nothing to purchase

[thorn marsh]

so just keep progressing the story and wait

[azure osprey]

Unless that portal I bought for 5 diamonds

[azure osprey]

I finished the main story

[hearty sierra]

Fought hades yet?

[velvet gale]

Have you spot all characters?

[hearty sierra]

You need to finish the game (credits) AND fight hades once more

[velvet gale]

EM I believe doesnt starts until you saw all furies

[azure osprey]

Oh

[thorn marsh]

huh?

[azure osprey]

Looks like I have to embarrass hades again

[hearty sierra]

Go for it

Smack 'em on the noggin

[velvet gale]

You need to see all fury sisters first, before it you cannot use EM. Even if you clear Hades the Redactor every run.

happens arround run 8 I reckon

[signal aspen]

no i dont think so

you just need to get the pact

[azure osprey]

Fury sisters appear when you get to hades

[signal aspen]

and then turn on em

[velvet gale]

I am positive

[azure osprey]

I think

[hearty sierra]

I can officially debunk all of y'alls claims

[velvet gale]

🤔 I did fresh file recently

I had to wait forever while clearing every run the game for EM

[hearty sierra]

I am fresh filing right now and it's run 8 and it's still meg

[velvet gale]

I might be off one run, but it requires runs.

[hearty sierra]

I am waiting for meg to kill off all 100 of my death defiances

[velvet gale]

speaking of unmodded game of course

[hearty sierra]

As it turns out, being overpowered isn't necessarily fun-er

[granite ether]

The other fury sisters appear once you beat meg a certain number of times (i don't remember the exact number)

[velvet gale]

7 or 8 I m not entirely sure. 🤷‍♂️ ITs not something I pay attention too

[granite ether]

There's dialogue of Hades being unhappy with Meg's performance from memory

[velvet gale]

well to be fair you generally arent really supposed to fight em before doing quite a few runs

[azure osprey]

Wait really

[velvet gale]

you either need to be doing fresh file really or being extremly good

[azure osprey]

Meg only beat me once

The other sisters

Never beat me

Oh my god bot

[granite ether]

Specifically you beating meg, not the other way round

[azure osprey]

Okay

Anyways fury sisters suck hades fire them

Hire 5 hydras at the first stage

Wait actually

Just get hades to beat zag at the first stage

Easy

[velvet gale]

Imagine if you enter the run and Hades right off the bat. Youre going nowhere son!

and the bosses would be his summons

just in case

[hearty sierra]

Fresh file boonless run?

I wonder if it's been done

[velvet gale]

Probalby close to imposible

[rapid forum]

Will prob take you a long time

[signal aspen]

bruh i got barged again

poggers

[rapid forum]

Pog

[halcyon imp]

Is giving skelly ambrosia worth it? I have him at the point where I need to do his task to progress but is it worth it? I need titan blood to do it

[rapid forum]

I'd say save it for last, there are better aspect you can upgrade

[halcyon imp]

Alright! Who should I be giving ambrosia to then? I want to start getting ||companions||

[hearty sierra]

Best companion is meg's

Easy to acquire, too

[halcyon imp]

Alright, thank you

[tulip ridge]

Does the titan blood used to unlock an aspect count towards the 5 you need to invest to unlock the 4th?

[wise oasis]

I think it does, let me double check the wiki

It should at least

says just invested, not upgrading

[tulip ridge]

Gotcha, thanks

[shadow kernel]

Let’s goooo I’m doing FO2 HL5 EM4 for fun and I have heroic greatest reflex

[wise oasis]

Its my headcannon that orpheus can play the unseen ones on his lyre

Electric guitar and all

[shadow kernel]

Wait he can?

[wise oasis]

You can buy it from the contractor

So technically he can

[shadow kernel]

Huh

I never though about that lol

[mint coral]

I like that the unseen ones is banned for having too many notes

[wise oasis]

Wheres it banned from?

[hearty sierra]

The in-game description from the house contractor

[upper summit]

So

Hades is still being worked on and added to right?

[hearty sierra]

Nope

[upper summit]

I played on early access back in 2019 and didn’t like it, but I got it on Xbox whenever it came out, I forget the date, and I’ve become obsessed

[hearty sierra]

Completed game

[upper summit]

Lol what.

[signal aspen]

in terms of new updates

[upper summit]

I will never understand game Devs.

[signal aspen]

we have no new updates

[hearty sierra]

What you see is what you get

[raw herald]

The Devs aren't obliged to make new content

[upper summit]

This game hit top on all sorts of charts.. why would you not want to reap your rewards?

[hearty sierra]

I don't know about you, but this is a finished game by any metric

[upper summit]

Not obliged no, but it seems kinda silly

[hearty sierra]

The art assets are INCREDIBLY costly to make

[raw herald]

Everything is costly

[hearty sierra]

That too, but the art in this game even more so

[upper summit]

Ugh

[thorn marsh]

see

the game might benefit alot off DLC

but that stuffs expensive to make

[upper summit]

Maybe TBOI ruined me. My expectations for Roguelikes are way too high. Nothing can come close to it

Hades I see potential, there’s soooo much

They could keep it going forever

I’m excited for Skul to drop on console

[thorn marsh]

oh damn

i want skul

i want way too games rn LOL

[upper summit]

It’s lit I have it on steam but I’m a Neanderthal so I like console

It’s

[manic bobcat]

they did. they ported it to Xb and PS

[upper summit]

My top 5 roguelikes are isaac, risk of rain 2, hades, skul, and enter the Gungeon

Yeah but gamepass is free lmao

[hearty sierra]

Aw, no love for dead cells or dead gods?

[upper summit]

Skul combat is stupid fluid. It’s the best feeling roguelike I think

[manic bobcat]

how is gamepass free? just curious

[upper summit]

Dead cells in my top 10

[manic bobcat]

isn't it $15 a month

?

[upper summit]

I’ve played so many roguelikes. It’s the only genre I really play now a days.

I mean hades is free on gamepass, sorry.

[manic bobcat]

got it :D

[upper summit]

I like roguelikes where you can go insane

That’s why hades appealed to me I guess cuz you can get pretty broke.

But I haven’t found any roguelikes even close to Isaac, other than risk of rain 2

You can legitimately crash the games because of how broken you can become

[hearty sierra]

Issac is in a league of its own, yeah

[upper summit]

Go watch Edmund Mcmillens interview about Isaac. It’s like 2 hours long but

It’s very inspirational.

[hearty sierra]

Well... I'm currently crashing the game because of how broken the enemies I've created are

[upper summit]

This dude flunked out of dev college, bills stacked up, straight horrible life situation

[raw herald]

Can definitely get broken builds in hades

[upper summit]

I wish I could become a game dev. I guess I could if I practically killed myself. I don’t have time for school but I’d like to try my hand at making a Roguelike

[azure osprey]

Tboi?

[raw herald]

The binding of isaac

[azure osprey]

I don’t like Issac at all at tbh

You can’t even buy afterbirth on ps4

[raw herald]

Never played it, in fact Hades was my first every roguelike

[azure osprey]

So

That’s awesome

[upper summit]

Market for console Isaac is non existent practically.

[azure osprey]

Hades has to be the 2nd best rougelike I have played

[upper summit]

Switch and PC are isaacs biggest platforms

[azure osprey]

Risk has online

So

[upper summit]

Isaac takes time to get into.

Lots of learning. Item knowledge and such.

[raw herald]

Don't know if I can make the switch, I'm so used to Hades

I've always meant to give it a go

[upper summit]

But once you taste your first brimstone ludo guppy run, you’ll be chasing that high forever

[manic bobcat]

if you want to try Isaac, make sure to install the external item description mod, also if you want to discuss tboi in depth #video-games is the better place

[upper summit]

Risk of rain 2 is neck and neck to Isaac IMO.

I always use artifacts in RoR2. They have some artifacts that make enemies drop items on death, and you can select what items you want

So RNG is kept to a minimum. Really fun

So on hades

[azure osprey]

Rng is why rougelikes are fun

[upper summit]

I just unlocked the hidden aspect for the fists

[azure osprey]

Also hades has to be the best single player rougelike

Ever

[upper summit]

So question about this hidden aspect

[azure osprey]

Just because of how the story works

[upper summit]

Is there a longer increment between dash cooldown..?

Like you have 4 dashes, but I count 1.8 seconds of downtime before you can dash again

[hearty sierra]

10/10, not broken https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/860031536110764072/878678496275230770/unknown.png

[upper summit]

Or am o tripping

[hearty sierra]

wait

[manic bobcat]

no access

F

[upper summit]

Cuz like..

Because of that 4 dash cooldown thing

[mint coral]

Idk about cooldown but ik that dashes are shorter

[upper summit]

I’m about to lose my 32 win streak

😦

[manic bobcat]

you can save it if you want to play dirty

[upper summit]

Please KEK me how

[manic bobcat]

hit give up right now

[upper summit]

I’m basically new to hades. I haven’t googled hardly anything or wat hes cideos

[manic bobcat]

not kidding

[upper summit]

Watched videos.

[manic bobcat]

give up reset you to the beginning of the run

and give you a brand new try with your streak intact

[upper summit]

Me and my wife have been playing it non-stop though. We only googled how to get certain hidden aspects

Really?

Click give up?

[void vigil]

yeah, give up reverts you to before the run ever happened - preserving your winstreak

[upper summit]

Cuz I’m at 2nd floor and I’ve lost 2 death defiance’s lol. And my run isn’t even that bad

[signal aspen]

yeah

[hearty sierra]

Yeah, giving up doesn't break your streak

[upper summit]

It’s just that damn cooldown.

Anyone have a comprehensive tier list of weapons and aspects?

[manic bobcat]

yeah hit escape and click give up

[hearty sierra]

You can still win a run despite losing all 3 DD before elysium (gods above bless pat)

[manic bobcat]

basically it reverts your save file to a prior state

[upper summit]

My favorites I’ve tried are the nemesis Stygian and the zag fists

[raw herald]

For what? Speedrunning, high heat or casual?

[manic bobcat]

before the run

[upper summit]

Err idk

Just crushing content

[hearty sierra]

Tried a Merciful End build on them yet?

[upper summit]

I’m not good enough to speed run. My longest run was 32 minute. I average 19-22mins

[manic bobcat]

every weapon is viable and can get broken builds, like, actually

[upper summit]

What’s that

[manic bobcat]

any of them

[raw herald]

Every single one

[upper summit]

Merciful end on nemesis what’s that

[hearty sierra]

Athena-ares duo boon

[manic bobcat]

the same way any isaac chars can get broken

[upper summit]

How do I trigger duos like that? You can target farm??

Hmm

[raw herald]

Because if the weapon itself sucks, just use tidal dash or lightning phalanx

[manic bobcat]

how is your mirror doing?

[hearty sierra]

Lmao obviously

It's like half the game

[upper summit]

Can I send you a pic?

[hearty sierra]

Go ahead, DM me

[manic bobcat]

there are a couple of perks in the bottom which allows you to reroll your boons

[upper summit]

I have everything mirror max except the very last one.

[mint coral]

Duos need requsites from 2 gods to have a chance to appear

[hearty sierra]

Target farming is half the fun in this game

[void vigil]

what about the other side of the mirror?

[hearty sierra]

Knowing what builds to work towards and getting the build

[upper summit]

Yes I have purple text and yellow texts maxed

[void vigil]

gotcha

[upper summit]

Except the last one, the reroll thing

[hearty sierra]

Both?? Damn that's a lot of darkness

[thorn marsh]

u cant force a duo but u cant force a prereq

u can force the prereqs

[upper summit]

Oh

Not the yellow defy also, sorry.