Love that sword
#h1-discussion
gusty slate
alpine fulcrum
kept trying to get the one for ||lucifer|| without realizing the requirements
do they all need ||5 blood spent on that weapon||
shut wolf
i played a lot and still cant get the sticker from Hypnos.. whats triggering it cant figure it out
gusty slate
RNG dialogue
Need ||To go through some dialogue with Hypnos and Thanatos if I recall||
ebon thistle
Im so glad that Hades have a unique quote when Zagreus uses ||Sigil of the Dead against him.|| ^_^
vestal plank
so for ||charon|| things how many times do i need to roll through him before unique rewards?
visual frigate
Man, y'all ever have those runs where you know its gonna be a bad one
hardy escarp
thorn sun
"why cant i play in the slapstick adventures of Skelly instead of angsty twink escapes hell" - my friend referring to hades.... I think he might have a favorite character
opaque nexus
yay just got the phrase for ||excalibur||
@alpine fulcrum great weapon, one of my favorites
wheat kayak
ngl I can't not see Fate's take on the ||Excalibur|| everytime I pick it up
(..cue 'read the original Arthurian myth pls for gods' sake')
opaque nexus
I just hear “fool!”
opaque nexus
What
brisk trail
I love Charons bow it’s so much fun
opaque nexus
Charon has a bow?
brisk trail
Anyways that’s all I had
opaque nexus
I would rather Artemis for that
brisk trail
Fair
opaque nexus
Demeter is pretty good actually
Nice damage buff and stacks chill well
If you get arctic blast you can do good stuff with it
mortal mural
So it seems there might be a small oversight on the first run in the game. If you make it to the temple of styx, you can have the anvil of daedelus spawn. ||Also Zag mentions to Cerberus that he has to find his mother persphone, before it is revealed that she is his mother. ||
opaque nexus
I wish they kept feedback open
mortal mural
Yeah seems like a big reveal super early on. ||Kinda invalidates the dream sequence.||
granite ether
that seems fine, the vast majority of people won't ||make it to styx on the first few runs and the dream sequence is moreso a flashback so it makes sense that zag already knows who his mother is even prior to the sequence, whereas the player does not||
mortal mural
||oooooh its a flashback||
tepid plover
so for ||charon|| things how many times do i need to roll through him before unique rewards?
@vestal plank uh?
wheat kayak
I don't think you can get anything out of him other than ||loyalty cards||
And ||loyalty cards|| are super strong as is
obsidian ermine
Guys, i wanna some help here if it's possible. I'm stuck with Dusa romance, i already max her hearts but she just dont appear at Zagreus room... and i think cause of that i cant max aphrodite as well.
Anyone know anything about it?
tepid plover
you romance before youre at max hearts
obsidian ermine
hm, but i didn't .-. so what now?
obsidian ermine
yeah
tepid plover
then you already romanced i think
i dont really understand ||but you dont really smash dusa just fyi||
obsidian ermine
hm, but something is buged i think, cause u know the stickers when u max hearts? i just dont have Dusa and Aphrodite
tepid plover
dm me a pic of your codex with dusa
wheat kayak
just keep playing
tepid plover
once you full hearts you should instantly bond tho
obsidian ermine
i already platined the game :p
just keep playing
@wheat kayak
wheat kayak
at least for me ||Dusa's chibi and bond notification doesn't pop up until you and Dusa, erm, clarified their relationship||
fossil coral
this is an idea but you guys think certain gods who offer dmg buffs on basic attacks like the speed god adding more attacks but lower dmg or like the huntress god giving a huge dmg on attacks but will take longer to take to attack
tepid plover
dm me a pic of your codex with dusa
somber shard
i can either take the hammer door in tartarus or go visit chaos... what would you do?
flat vapor
what aspect
wheat kayak
depends but you won't miss out on a hammer as long as you haven't maxed your 2 hammer quota
somber shard
oh, it always will?
obsidian ermine
@tepid plover will send private ok?
tepid plover
yes dm
somber shard
well i'd be skipping this hammer offering to go visit chaos
weary urchin
well
tepid plover
it will respawn
weary urchin
ok
tulip cobalt
Borrowed money from ||Charon||, proceeded to get completely annihilated. All in all, fun experience.
weary urchin
so the game wants you to finish a run with two hammer upgrades
thats just how it is
it will continue offering hammers until you max 2
somber shard
ok i just wasn't sure lol
weary urchin
including styx
somber shard
i see, thanks
weary urchin
yeah
same with hermes
i believe if you skip an earlier hammer you will be guaranteed 1 going into styx but im not sure if its actually a guarantee
i know every time i skip hammers i get 1 in styx
hushed violet
Borrowed money from ||Charon||, proceeded to get completely annihilated. All in all, fun experience.
@tulip cobalt Ahaha yes, I really enjoyed this surprise
wicked aspen
So.... has anyone seen Alex Fernandez's fanart of Hades?
Looks pretty legit
Like, if someone showed me it and said "this is the flash card for the new update" id say "Yeah, looks like it"
hasty shadow
Does anyone have the chaos laugh track
quasi olive
Even in Hell Mode with the 25% life regen malus?
tepid plover
laugh track?
hasty shadow
Yes
tepid plover
whats that
hasty shadow
||Chaos told me to kill hades with his egg||
hasty shadow
And then he laughs after that
tepid plover
oh ok
hasty shadow
Did anyone record it or how can I find it
wise stratus
Maybe not any more than that 😄
granite ether
@wise stratus ||4th aspects are spoilers in this channel so please use spoiler tags||
wise stratus
- I was on mobile. 2. I'm not the only one saying it 😄
wise stratus
well you better tell them too 🙂
granite ether
also spoiler tags do work on mobile
|| spoilers go here || for future reference
@earnest remnant ||4th aspects are spoilers here, please use spoiler tags||
granite ether
also, my pronouns are they/them/theirs ^_^
tepid plover
"I wasnt the only one" isnt an excuse
granite ether
@wise stratus
wise stratus
if you're going to enforce a rule, you need to make sure everyone follows it
otherwise that is discrimination
tepid plover
💀
tepid plover
I mean I'm not a mod or anything, and it still looks like you want some problem lol
wise stratus
I just don't like people with power thinking they're better than everyone, abusing their position
granite ether
this is a spoiler free channel, mods can only enforce what they actively notice
tepid plover
They just told you something and you refused
granite ether
you're not the only one who's be asked to spoiler tag things
tepid plover
They are not abusing anything, It is a spoiler
quaint wind
chill dude
wise stratus
lmao
tepid plover
💀
granite ether
it's nothing personal, and nor it is an 'abuse of power'
wise stratus
lmao sure
quaint wind
this isn't an acceptable way act. aggy asked you to tag a spoiler. there's no reason to act out like this
tepid plover
What does "a person like you" even means
surreal pelican
Okay I just read everything, @wise stratus it wasn't personal. Messages just get banned when they contain spoilers, doesn't matter if multiple people do it, it's just a basic rule and gets enforced whenever possible.
granite ether
anyways, onto a different topic
wise stratus
so clearly you didn't read everything very well
surreal pelican
Okay you don't have to throw so much sass lmao
quaint wind
this conversation is over everyone, we're moving on
remote moat
maybe this should be solved in dms ?
granite ether
what weapons do people enjoy playing the most ^_^
quaint wind
i actually really like bow
brisk trail
Shield.
surreal pelican
Fists all the way baby
brisk trail
Beyblade go brrr
granite ether
hells yeah 
Bow was a weapon I really slept on at first
it's now one of the weapons I enjoy a metric tonne
brisk trail
Chiron's a beast, ngl
fast zenith
I am just going to ask here, change the subject lmao
I need to ask a dummy question. If you put Old Spiked Collar in Elysium, but use another keepsake in the final region, does it take away the life total you had?
wise stratus
yes
fast zenith
@granite ether spear is my baby. It is just perfect haha
quaint wind
i like bow bc i can attack from afar and then dash away as need be
granite ether
niceu mlerp 
wise stratus
I'm good with every weapon. Although DT hasn't given me bow in a while. 😦
fast zenith
I do know that many people dislike spear, but I just enjoy the range it gives. I am super bad at shield/fists for example
wise stratus
Currently doing a run with secret sword.
quaint wind
spear is a lot of fun too. i love throwing it
wise stratus
Enshrouded eclipse is great when you only get one room option every time 😄
fast zenith
do you have any good builds on bow @quaint wind
quaint wind
@fast zenith i did pretty decently last time with a zeus heavy build, i had high voltage, thunder dash, and lightning call
pure barn
What would you recommend is the Easiest ||heat to get to Hades with fists||
brisk trail
||extreme measures||
pure barn
Thank you
olive mountain
I am concerned that if supergiant has any further update schedule. I 've found lots of things can be expanded.
hasty shadow
I want some Helios blessings man
olive mountain
Yeah, that would be great
quaint wind
right now the team is taking a break, they may or may not have things later
surreal pelican
Hehehe
Is it just me or are Hermes boons almost always common
Like Hermes boons are just way more frequently lower rarity than other boons
|| I don't know about the skulls, but the vase with hands yes ||
granite ether
||poison damage is it's own thing, the skulls aren't traps||
sure footing helps a tonne with ||heightened security where the redacted pots deal 150 damage||
brisk trail
Funny thing ||skulls are enemies so eye of lamia works on them||
wheat kayak
Zeus chain lighting works on the ||bloodskulls|| too, i.e. will chain to them so that's neat
wise stratus
I completed the codec
winter pike
My computer got unplugged and I didn't notice and it died halfway through the final boss on like the best run I've ever had
Kms
Uuugghh I just got in and my entire run is gone 😭😭😭😭
wise stratus
I'll take free hugs 😉
lyric vector
Bro i cant use the bow to save my lifeeee
tulip cobalt
The bow can be tricky to use. I find that staying around mid distance works pretty well. That way most attacks give you time to dodge, but you're close enough to dash in an hit with each arrow of your special.
Disclaimer, I have no clue what I'm doing.
astral osprey
Sad times
wise stratus
They broke secret spear dash attack 😦
winter pike
When hearts are locked what do u have to do to get past that ?
brisk trail
Depends on the character
winter pike
I've been talking to Achilles a ton and I've had ambrosia on me when I visit him but nothing
Oh hmm
winter pike
Yeee I've been making sure to talk with him everytime I get the chance
brisk trail
Refer to that guide in #h1-story-discussion , pinned message. If you want to
Or if you wanna figure it yourself, then don't
winter pike
:O okee thank u!
brisk trail
Yw
You'll also need rng favor heh
pine spindle
Took me ages to get some hearts filled. Sometimes it's just luck
scenic panther
How much more are the developers going to add into the game?
brisk trail
We don't know
Three games before this one, none with post 1.0 content, so I doubt they will
Right now their plan is to balance and polish, then take a break
winter pike
Sad but also there's so much content as is imo
tulip cobalt
I don't know how large their other games are, but Hades is huge at the moment. Extra content is likely in high demand, I think it's possible that they continue working on it.
pine spindle
It does hint as much in the game
austere jacinth
I hope we get more, but I don't expect it
winter pike
Yee it's only crazy how big Hades is I didn't expect it and I'm still astonished at times
tulip cobalt
Whether or not they add more, the current game is still enormous. I'll be getting a lot of play time out of this one.
That being said, if they did decide to make more content for the game, I'd happily pay for extra.
austere jacinth
I was a bit sad to learn ||that I couldn't take care of the garden. Like I promised Persephone. That would be a welcome feature for me xD.||
Also, EVERYONE is hot, Douglas xP
tulip cobalt
They really are. I still think that they should make Artemis a romance option, I don't care what mythology says.
austere jacinth
Artemis is kinda gay in this game.
pine spindle
Not sure she'd be interested in Zag, yeh..
tulip cobalt
Fair.
pine spindle
Purely platonic
tulip cobalt
I still love her. They really knocked it out of the park with all the character personalities. They're all incredible.
hasty shadow
Chaos laughing was really cool
austere jacinth
I'd love to see her bro. Not as a romance though xD Apollo and Artie are pretty close in mythology.
It'd be nice to see what SGG did with their dynamic.
brisk trail
i havent heard it
is chaos laughing like
a "ha. ha. ha. ha." or like
genuine laughter
wise stratus
I only need 50 more red stuff 🙂
earnest remnant
@granite ether Whoops, sorry, forgot about spoiler tags. Anyway, since the message got deleted, I'll post it again. I would LOVE it if there was a hammer that changed the default spear attack to the spin attack instead (without any charge up). Holding the attack button for the spin is way too slow to be useful in normal gameplay, especially as the heat rises. I think this would give the spear aspects a lot of variability and make them feel more fun. Of course, it might require a lot of balancing to make it work.
||Guan Yu would immediately become playable with this hammer.||
wheat kayak
Quick Spin is a strong enough hammer to upgrade your spin attacks imo
It pretty much doubles, even triples your charging speed (idk the actual increase of speed just guessing)
earnest remnant
I've played a lot with quick spin. IMO, you'll still take damage while trying to spin with that hammer, especially with fast enemies. I'll be honest, right now, to me, spin just feels clunky. However fast it gets, it will always need a delay cause the input of the default attack and the spin are on the same button. And that doesn't feel enjoyable. Again, just my personal opinion. I'm sure others think differently.
full nexus
You can dash while spinning, it helps a lot
Also. With ||Guan Yu||, your main dps certainly does not come from the spin. It is a way to offset some damage, such a gift comes with downsides of course
With Hades, spin-dash(while spinning)-attack works really well even at the highest heats
viscid ocean
I hope we get a dlc in which we finally ||go to olympus, maybe breaking the underworld curse||
I want to talk to the gods face to face
zealous fiber
Has anyone else noticed Rail missiles suddenly changing course?
Like, you target a certain area and fire the rocket, then it suddenly changes the location of the AoE mid-flight and lands elsewhere.
vapid pollen
It seems to do that if you’re next to a tall object or a wall. They bounce off
zealous fiber
I have not experienced that until recently tbh
I even employed the tactic of sitting behind a rock during certain boss phases and shooting my special, they didn’t behave like this before
Makes certain hammer upgrades very frustrating to use, particularly in the small chambers near the surface
astral osprey
Happened a lot to me
steel flicker
there has always been a very, very high chance of the bomb(s) to bounce off the rock and go another way when you're behind that rock
astral osprey
You can't target an object or something out of the room, it will bounce off
Pretty annoying, esp if you have the increased dmg/radius from daddylus
wise stratus
I beat my old winstreak 🙂
thorny crescent
I honestly don’t feel like I’ve gotten better at Hades,I feel like I just get better boons and therefore I just win because of good luck and not actual skill
gusty slate
I mean, as long as you're winning, the true test are higher heats
could always makea new save and see how much quicker it takes you also
thorn rapids
Is there any update on cross save with switch?
brisk trail
Check the #announcements
wise stratus
@thorny crescent Skill takes time 🙂
zealous fiber
Knowing which boons to pick is a skill too
thorn rapids
Thanks
sonic ridge
Don't let ||Theseus|| get to you, Blackguard!
strange junco
is switch crosssave a thing yet
latent junco
gusty slate
#announcements postponed
zealous fiber
How do speedruns for the game function? Is there an "out of game" timer we need to set up or is the official in game timing being taken into account?
gusty slate
in-game timer and a recording I assume
There's an option to show in-game time as you play, and it'll tell you at the end of the run if I recall
alpine fulcrum
speedrunning in roguelikes is so weird to me
But less so in this game I guess
The range of what can happen is narrower than in a lot of roguelikes
full nexus
Styx 
strange ingot
I'd love to fight ||all the Olympians|| in some sort of boss rush mode
See how far you can go, that sort of thing
austere jacinth
Some of them would happily fight you.
I'd want more bonding though. Although fighting does seem like a solid way to bond with Ares. xDD
ancient canyon
hey what's a good build for the achilles spear?
celest cave
I just had a run with the adamant rail, gotten the cluster bomb upgrade with rocket. Its so fun 5x rockets!
potent dome
sup guys
I got a qn, why am I stuck on 20 heats for the weapons ? playing on Switch, thanks
gusty slate
stuck?
potent dome
yeah i cant seem to add more than 20 heats, no bounties for 21 heat onwards
smth like that
wicked aspen
That's by design
potent dome
jus Switch i suppose ?
gusty slate
Switch and PC are about the same game
potent dome
ah okay ~
gotcha
I see
thanks for the replies
Expect no bounties for this(for now) i suppose a big update is coming or smth
wicked aspen
We dont know, odds are super giant is on break, they gave Hades alotta love for alotta years
potent dome
I see
gusty slate
Cross-saves and some balance/bug fixes
Otherwise, SGG hasn't confirmed or denied further work on Hades
wicked aspen
Plus, we don't even know if they'll continue supporting it like most rogue likes do
potent dome
I did have a lot of fun playing it for a few weeks, got all 20 heats on all weapons lol
fun stuff
empty folio
Help guys i cant find the chamber reward anywhere
It isnt letting me go to next chamber either because i havent found it
What can i do?
potent dome
there shld be some kinda string leading u to it
potent dome
if u try proceeding from the gate to the next level, u shld see a string leading u to the reward
gusty slate
if you go to the door, there will be a light that should take you to it
Unless you're bugged...
empty folio
Uhm it let me proceed even though i didnt taie the reward? The door was closed and everything
Just missed out on a daed hammer ;-;
brisk trail
Had a fun glitch with bone hydra today
Had it spit out the enemy balls yet the assets didn’t load in
Still had the health bar just wasn’t destroyable till the timer ran out
hardy salmon
I came to this discord server just to tell how much i hate the aspect of guan yu. Holy fucking shit, this bitch just sucks ass. Shit new moveset and too hard restrictions. That life steal is a fucking joke. I was trying to escape with this shit for 2 fucking hours, i hade a 10 run winstreak before that shit. So far this game brought only enjoyment for me, but now i'm angry as fuck. Fuck this piece of shit aspect
gusty slate
Might be missing assets tbh
I know someone came in telling us how Asterius' model wasn't loading in
but was still attacking them 
brisk trail
Congrats you’ve broken rule 2 wise crack
hardy salmon
i don't care
gusty slate
Proxy asleep, impressive
brisk trail
Yeah I’m happy it was something small
wheat kayak
How did that get past the bot
wheat kayak
Alternate character set magick? 
hexed pilot
Bot asleep
gusty slate
4th aspect spear is harder to play yeah, need it maxed out
wheat kayak
Also sorry that you feel that way because GY is among my fav spear aspects
Even unmaxed
Why yes I'd like to run out of DDs after redacted chunks me for one DD each hit
wheat kayak
Also GY buff latest patch seems good, iirc dash strike damage and normal first hit damage were the same, now it's a bit more respectable
gusty slate
Buff was nice, still one of the hardest aspects to use
wheat kayak
Honestly though JS3 might be a buff to GY rather than a nerf to you like every other condition is
More enemies = more targets to get lifesteal from
gusty slate
Of course, unless they're all buffed to no tomorrow xD
wheat kayak
autumn light
Is there a demo version of the game? I can buy it but money is tight and I'd like to maybe get a hands on test to see if it's a good idea
wheat kayak
No demo unfortunately
gusty slate
Can only buy and check out for <2 hours on steam and refund
quaint cradle
Hello ive started playing the game recently but have noticed I dont actually hear any music esides when im cahnging the volume of said music
gusty slate
I guess?
quaint cradle
has anyone else had the same issue?
gusty slate
Hm, so it's deathly quiet everywhere?
quaint cradle
yeah accept for grunts of the character
vapid pollen
Playing on the Switch but no sound problems.
quaint cradle
im playing on steam
quaint cradle
im doing it as we speak, should I be hearing music in the non combat zones aswell? because I could test it there
gusty slate
Lemme pull up my game
quaint cradle
thanks
gusty slate
main screen should have music
quaint cradle
I can hear it than just when playing, I think its a bug right?
gusty slate
House has music too it seems
quaint cradle
im booting it up after validiating now
gusty slate
there's minor music in the house yeah
pseudo onyx
The +Dash-strike bonuses are supposed to apply to the gloves' Dash-Upper, right?
quaint cradle
I cant hear it in that case
gusty slate
It takes a bit for the music to startup though in the house
If you start a run you should hear instant Tartarus music
quaint cradle
ill give it a tru
gusty slate
but yeah sounds like #h1-tech-support might be able to help
quaint cradle
its doing it now seems like the validating worked, thanks
brisk trail
Don’t you hate it when you shut your computer off wrong so you go from meta build to dieing on ||hades||
pseudo onyx
Either way, I think somewhere along the line someone told me the +dash-upper should benefit from +dash attack upgrades. If that's true, it seems like the ones where 'dash attack does +300% to armor" only applies to the attack and not the dash upper--So just trying to figure out if this is as intended or not (and also means Im gonna take Artemis's dash less now too w/ gloves if so lol)
alpine fulcrum
o damn i didnt know ||hades|| gives you a keepsake
gusty slate
Oh hammer upgrades are very specific
especially on fist, if it says dash-attack, it's dash attack, dash upper for dash upper
pseudo onyx
Specific or not, if it uses the same language in two different bonuses, that's confusing
gusty slate
if I recall
pseudo onyx
I remember asking before if dash-upper was included in the dash attack bonus from artemis and was told yes
(I dont know if true, numbers aint my thing)
flat vapor
doesn't hunter dash say "dash-strike"
pseudo onyx
Oh wow, does it say dash strike vs dash attack? Yes that makes a huuuge difference
Here I thought it was the same wording oops 😄
Yes, artemis says "dash strike", but the description does say dash+x (tho I'm in a different weapon run while I'm running this and assume the tooltip might change)
alpine fulcrum
can you be hit while ||invisible||
pseudo onyx
No, at elast not with greater
alpine fulcrum
i mean with the keepsake
pseudo onyx
I know, I'm saying greater call, for sure you dont get hit. I think lesser as soon as you attack it breaks?
(seems like a possible reference to how normal/greater works in D&D heh)
gusty slate
I didn't think I could be hit
wheat kayak
same deal with lesser iirc until you attack
gusty slate
Yeah that's what I thought
alpine fulcrum
im pretty sure ive ||hit hades out of invisibility before|| but im not sure quite how that works
gusty slate
Oh lol I troll ||Hades when I have the sigil, I use it when he goes invis and he breaks out fora second||
not sure what's supposed to happen 
pseudo onyx
My brain is frying trying to think what you're referencing here lol
alpine fulcrum
||wonder what hte greater call dialogue is there||
pseudo onyx
I mean, in that fight it's "Yeah I hear you" or something it's made me chuckle
gusty slate
||FATHER!... WHAT!?|| maybe
wheat kayak
'Oh shut up.'
cobalt halo
HADES will get more Updates or V1.0 is the last one ?
gusty slate
SGG hasn't confirmed or denied big updates. For now just balances and bug fixes... and of course cross-saves
cobalt halo
Ok, thanks.
gusty slate
They'll let us know if they want to work on Hades more after their break
sounds like cross-saves has been a minor nightmare though
surreal pelican
Are weapons considered spoilers?
gusty slate
4th aspect names are
surreal pelican
No just the basic weapons
gusty slate
Shouldn't be
surreal pelican
Okay I have a question then
Adamant Rail with curse of agony
Is it possible?
Since i'm trying to get it but like Ares is giving every boons except for curse of agony
opaque nexus
possible to what
opaque nexus
do not recommend curse of agony on rail
surreal pelican
Yeah but I also have the stacking boon
gusty slate
or Ares/Athena duo
opaque nexus
I still don't think it's a good fit for rail
surreal pelican
Ah so I'm just unlucky?
alpine fulcrum
huh i thought i saw a prophecy for unlocking every aspect, but now i dont see it
unkempt sleet
It can work with ricochet
gusty slate
It's not the best setup, but you can win with it
surreal pelican
Yeah but with the stacking boon I think it's OP
gusty slate
Ares/Aphro duo might work too tbh
opaque nexus
nahhh
surreal pelican
atleast in my head it is
opaque nexus
zeus attack is better
gusty slate
Sure, but ares can still work xD
opaque nexus
on eris anything works
gusty slate
Does come down to player skill too for things to work
alpine fulcrum
anything can work if you dont stand where attacks are
surreal pelican
so I just did it in case
viscid ocean
I want to mod in a King Bach aspect for the sword
opaque nexus
ew
viscid ocean
Big spoon sword
The special is that zag says only a spoonful and the enemy gets consumed by the spoon
After that you can throw the enemy in the direction you are facing
gusty slate
A different kinda Talos eh?
opaque nexus
I'm not gonna say here why I dont like king bach
wicked aspen
I feel like suoer giant should just pin a comment saying "WE ARE DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE PLANS TO WORK ON FUTURE CONTENT FOR HADES"
opaque nexus
they are not sure themselves though
gusty slate
but that's a straight up denial, they are more unsure
viscid ocean
I'm not gonna say here why I dont like king bach
@opaque nexus idk king Bach I just know the meme
brisk trail
Theres some dude djing in a van for some livestream right next to me
viscid ocean
And a big spoon sword is cool
surreal pelican
I have 8 ares boons and yet no curse of agony 
I just want to see my idea in action
wheat kayak
isn't that Ares special
gusty slate
curse of agony is attack I believe?
surreal pelican
Yeah it is
gusty slate
I've done it before, it works... just a little awkward xD
surreal pelican
And I want to combine it with Adamant Rail and the stacking boon
quiet gull
If you're going for a specific build, keepsake + rerolls is what you want
surreal pelican
I kinda dedicated the entire run to getting it and didn't get it in the end 😦
quiet gull
Did you take something else on attack?
wheat kayak
wait did you get a different attack boon
quiet gull
Cause that will reduce the chance of getting what you want
wheat kayak
before you get Ares attack
gods rarely prompts for boon exchange that you might as well never count on it
surreal pelican
I did, but sold it when I started going for it
Does that reduce chance when sold or no?
quiet gull
No, but with these kinds of things, the earlier you go for it the better your chances are
surreal pelican
Rip
gusty slate
down to rng, I've had buncha boon swaps before
quiet gull
So now you need the attack, plus the stacking boon, so two boons minimum
Hope you have five rerolls banked up
opaque nexus
Coronacht: Aspect of Bart
"You have the Springfieldian Sling and can place traps to prank enemies"
surreal pelican
I don't have rerolls unlocked, I already have the stacking boon
But i'm in the last area, so there is no chance of getting it anymore
gusty slate
There is a chance, rather low though
surreal pelican
Hm?
surreal pelican
How is there still a chance if I'm in the last area? @gusty slate
pseudo onyx
read more 1st next time
surreal pelican
Hahaha
surreal pelican
Yeah but there are no ares boons
:((
Yeah big rips
I was like, maybe there is a teeny tiny chance boons drop randomly after roomclearing or something
heady gulch
||i did the fight with charon||
surreal pelican
But that's not the case so I cry
gusty slate
There's always next time
surreal pelican
@heady gulch Congrats! that's really hard
surreal pelican
I was wondering, does aegis + the deflection on attack boon work with the aegis charge up?
heady gulch
idk...
surreal pelican
Can you just like hold the shield and reflect stuff? Or does it work differently?
Ah
surreal pelican
ah would've been cool
gusty slate
As that's not 'attack' I assume
heady gulch
asterius is a giga chad
astral osprey
"short one"
astral osprey
Asterius do be a big cutie
heady gulch
and if you beat him, he says you did a good job
he is a mega chad
theseus on the other hand
astral osprey
Theseus is also a big cutie
gusty slate
Hellspawn flattery...won't get to...me...
brisk trail
Theseus is a rat
astral osprey
Come on!
I can't be the only one who finds his overly self confident personality kind of adorable right?
astral osprey
Also true
quasi olive
Quick question: can Chaos' boons stack with gods' boons for the same attack, say, your Y for example?
tired merlin
I think chaos boons are mostly +damage % so I would imagine that they add to boons
gusty slate
Like if I have one god's attack boon and chaos buffs attack? yeah it stacks
quasi olive
OK cool, thanks guys!
Because I had the feeling that whenever I had boons for a specific attack, I had difficulties finding Chaos boons for that same attack, so I was wondering...
gusty slate
nah just rng
quasi olive
Rngzus not with me apparently...
pseudo onyx
Like if I have one god's attack boon and chaos buffs attack? yeah it stacks
@gusty slate Additively or multiplicatively? haha
gusty slate
I thought all damage was additive
mellow pumice
yeah it is
pseudo onyx
wasn't sure, I assume so otherwise we'd see crazy numbers
mellow pumice
otherwise it would be way too messy to calculate
gusty slate
Hammers are the interesting ones in which they affect base damage
pseudo onyx
I wish we could see in game what the base damage was-->to is without looking at the wiki
mellow pumice
yes or things like aphrodites boon that makes weak enemies more susceptible to damage
pseudo onyx
They do it for cast- I dunno why they dont for that but shrug
flat vapor
most damage is additive
mellow pumice
yeah sometimes it would be helpful to see actual numbers along with the percentage, especially in lategame where 6 things are affecting it
would be nice to see what exactly is making you so strong
gusty slate
stat card would be nice
flat vapor
crit is multiplicative (3x damage), and some hammers (specifically "charged" special hammers) say +% base damage, meaning multiplicative
mellow pumice
maybe an option that changes percentage >< numbers
pseudo onyx
Hell even if it's jsut shown at the end of the run or if/when you uh, get a chance to say, review past runs lol
mellow pumice
if you can show damage numbers on enemies Diablo style you might as well show them in the stats instead of having to try it out
oh also ||maiming|| is multiplicative
pseudo onyx
Wait, what do you mean it is? On the +Special or something?
gusty slate
My lizard brain just sees numbers, hit more times if not dead
pseudo onyx
OH you mean the inherent bonus
mellow pumice
25% more damage to ||maimed|| foes
so all your damage with your boons and all gets multiplied with 1.25
1.5 with the hammer
pseudo onyx
Yeah, and I imagine that the extra 25% you can get from hammer makes it +50% multiplicative then
mellow pumice
but then again, i would ASSUME that aphros boon would ADD on that other end
so with ||maim||, hammer and aphro (assuming the enemy is weakened) it'd be around 1.8x damage in total
make that crit, 5.4x
sorry
gusty slate
Now do that to legendary sword
mellow pumice
legendary in what sense?
gusty slate
4th aspect*
mellow pumice
oh wait, do foes take more damage in the ||aura||?
mellow pumice
i mean, its thrust does 200
gusty slate
Still want to get that 8k someone did
mellow pumice
i had 324 base damage on hestia once
pseudo onyx
wait i Had my assumptions backward. Additive is what we want almost always, but because there's only one type of multiplicative from 4th aspect, that's actually a big benefit. But as soon as you get more than one thing multiplicative it then becomes bad. I think. Hurr durr
mellow pumice
no multiplicative is always way better
pseudo onyx
If you have 5 things that are .5 multiplicative, it's worse than 5 .5 that are additive.
but if you have 1 multiplicative and 2 additive, that's a pretty big bonus
gusty slate
1.5x5 vs .5x5?
mellow pumice
let's start with 1
gusty slate
Hm. I'm too lizard brain for this I ma stay out xD
flat vapor
are you sure maim is multiplicative? just seems like additive to me
pseudo onyx
It's a big bonus when you are adding a multiplicative bonus when almost everything else is additive, so like, in Hades, would be big deal
flat vapor
wait, just read the wording on it
mellow pumice
i am going to sketch it now
yeah my ||gilgamesh|| runs are always the fastest
16.24 is my record
pseudo onyx
Yeah, so we're taking things outside of the base damage formula by adding a multiplicative part of the formula. That's gonna be a great bonus
mellow pumice
plus you get 7 dashes if hermes is nice to you 
gusty slate
I forgot about that, ruthless is decent on it
pseudo onyx
Mmmm 7 epic level wave dashes are just so yummy
hard pier
I think it's interesting how someone made a "Best Easiest Beginner Builds" video for Hades, and then talks about a Guan Yu Spear build
mellow pumice
gusty slate
If you're decent at kiting and dodging can be Iguess?
gusty slate
but idk if 4th aspects are beginnerxD
mellow pumice
ye
opaque nexus
I think it's interesting how someone made a "Best Easiest Beginner Builds" video for Hades, and then talks about a Guan Yu Spear build
@hard pier that was Haelian, he is really good
hard pier
Good for him
gusty slate
I guess if you only have 1 clear for each weapon, haven't spent blood, could speedrun 4th spear
hard pier
I'm having trouble with the last boss, personally. Buying the titans blood in the super Shop and getting keepsakes is my main concern anyway
gusty slate
Yeah, but the other stuff at the shop is pretty good
opaque nexus
This one speedrunner bablo has like an almost sub 8 minute guan yu time
pseudo onyx
Maybe I should try that one on 0 heat just to see how fast I can get it lol
I need a billion darkness anyways so
opaque nexus
The fastest heat for in game time is actually 6
mellow pumice
for ||erebus||?
opaque nexus
No
gusty slate
no survival rooms
opaque nexus
Yep that’s one
mellow pumice
im guessing ||em2||
opaque nexus
Forced overtime reduces spawn times
mellow pumice
oh wow
opaque nexus
Tight deadline is actually bad for in game time
mellow pumice
no em then
opaque nexus
Yes em
mellow pumice
Oh
opaque nexus
Em2 fo1
gusty slate
Oh
pseudo onyx
em? acronyms still hurr durr
mellow pumice
no survival rooms
Yep that’s one
i read these together
opaque nexus
Tight deadline is actually bad for in game time, the survival rooms pause the timer so they are basically a free room like a fountain
mellow pumice
@pseudo onyx you have heat, right?
gusty slate
Oh really?
mellow pumice
yeah
gusty slate
interesting
pseudo onyx
Yes I jsut can't think of what it stands for
mellow pumice
||extreme measures||
hard pier
Wait so you're forced to speed run in higher heats? Or what's this about time
pseudo onyx
Ah! duh, thank you. Sorry, I have always struggled with piecing together acronyms in my brain lol
mellow pumice
dont HAVE TO, its just the fastest
gusty slate
Just speedrunners
mellow pumice
ok i made a graph
heady gulch
im super mad
opaque nexus
Hi super mad I’m cin
pseudo onyx
I just realized where my brain error went wrong
opaque nexus
Just get the image link
alpine fulcrum
hah, i did a run with all green talents for the prophecy, and i was worried like "man this is gonna hurt in a lot of ways"
pseudo onyx
I was thinking .5 instead of 1.5
heady gulch
||skelly wanted me to max my zag sword just for him to pull a prank on me||
opaque nexus
What is this for
mellow pumice
i drew out Additive and Multiplicative values
hard pier
Skelly is cool
gusty slate
Boyo is great
mellow pumice
every step downward symbolizes "+0.5" to the left and "x1.5" to the right
as you can see, Right always increases more than to the Left (except for the very first step)
alpine fulcrum
but then...mostly leveled chiron with artemis special and the +special arrows hammer go brrr
boreal berry
im just getting back into the game what are the "themes" in the work orders? im assuming it just changes how the house looks
gusty slate
Changes ui
opaque nexus
They customize the end screen
alpine fulcrum
didnt use SD once
mellow pumice
changes the overlay
opaque nexus
Oh the entire overlay?
gusty slate
makes everything look fancy
mellow pumice
i mean
your boon stuff to the left, and your heat/mirror talent bar up top
and the victory screen
opaque nexus
I have an almost 100% complete file with like 250 hours
mellow pumice
your health bar doesnt change tho
WHOA thats big
honestly im kind of disappointed in the ||Cthonic Theme||
200 keys and it doesnt even show in the boon menu
heady gulch
i bought 5 nectar to give to skelly
mellow pumice
pseudo onyx
Hmmm I just checked my achievements, I'm very close to the epilogue, (I am just missing Demeter, else is maxed) ... no spawning though. The only other things I'm missing are the gifts from Skelly. Theres two. But I have NO idea what triggers this and he's stopped giving me ! for a while now. I really don't wanna look it up but uhh if anybody knows, do I have to do something outlandish that I wouldn't normally try to get this stuff to proc or will general futzing around make whatever this is appear for me eventually?
heady gulch
oh, ended up giving him ||my embrosia||
gusty slate
Heat for skelly no?
heady gulch
||have you maxed the zag aspect on the sword and killed skelly with it yet? ||
pseudo onyx
||And used it enough to unlock the codex entry in Fables||
hard pier
Didn't that guy with the Rock have one too?
hard pier
mellow pumice
pseudo onyx
Hmmm. Anyways. Does this Skelly gift thing eventually just show up then I've I've maxed out the companion and codex entry and relationship and etc, or should I look up the trigger? lol
"The Useless Trinket"
gusty slate
They can be easy to miss
mellow pumice
yeah try not to skip his dialogue, at least if its more than one line
gusty slate
Check the ||bottom right of courtyard before you leave for a run||
pseudo onyx
K, I'll just keep holding off 😄 I just have nearly 13 heat in every weapon done each and just about everything else is done. And he hasn't given me a !, and i talk to him each time I leave
omg
It's SO BRIEFLY sparkling
that's just mean
lol
mellow pumice
mellow pumice
it's bouldy talking simulator and you get Hades for free with it
brisk trail
it's boyfriend dungeon ripoff 👌
mellow pumice
dream daddy but everyone is dead
pseudo onyx
hahaha omg I've already met the criteria for this you damn bastard. I wish I would have noticed these faint sparkles ages ago @gusty slate thank you hahaha
So I'm glad i asked
hard pier
You even get to try and fix a relationship
gusty slate
easy to miss
mellow pumice
do i pick swift strike on epic or side hustle on epic
heady gulch
skelly 
mellow pumice
||lucifer rail||
heady gulch
dusa 
gusty slate
Boyo talks in riddles sometimes...
mellow pumice
chamber 18
swift strike would be SO STRONG
side hustle would get me about 600 coins
nah im getting that fast attack
gusty slate
I like money
hard pier
Artemis tho
mellow pumice
actually i do have deadly strike thanks for asking
pseudo onyx
So I struggle with sword, like even with 4th aspect. I think it's cos i tend to like fast hitting and Dio's dot. For sword, I don't really get which boons make the most sense for me to chase
mellow pumice
i despise 4th sword i can NOT handle it right
copper pond
Hmmm. Anyways. Does this Skelly gift thing eventually just show up then I've I've maxed out the companion and codex entry and relationship and etc, or should I look up the trigger? lol
@pseudo onyx I think you need to trigger it with a specific action. If you haven't done it by this point you might not do it accidentally ever
mellow pumice
i get hit between my swings every time
@copper pond we already resolved that lol
thanks anyway
copper pond
oh sorry
pseudo onyx
I usually dash between each swing to hit from behind
hard pier
That's why you get a defense boost, duh
pseudo onyx
since it continues
hard pier
And extra health
oak shore
I'm def weakest with sword but that's definitely at least partially cos I'm not interested in it
I mostly only play when it's got the darkness buff
pseudo onyx
If not 4th, what do y'all prefer instead? I only take it when it has the darkness buff
oak shore
ayy
pseudo onyx
I have like 20-something blood I'm hoarding so
mellow pumice
nemesis
hard pier
Poseidon
mellow pumice
im bad with spear
alpine fulcrum
which is worse sword or spear
mellow pumice
sword, unless on 4th aspect, is good
hard pier
No weapons are bad
mellow pumice
at least for me
pseudo onyx
I feel like unless I get very specific boon+hammer combo spear takes forever for me to kill stuff
oak shore
I like spear because it has ranged options
pseudo onyx
compared to others
mellow pumice
it IS funny though how spear went from my fav weapon to "is 2 heat behind the others"
pseudo onyx
^
oak shore
I have a difficult time when I don't have any way to harm from range, since a lot of my playstyle is very kitey
alpine fulcrum
what heat level is that
mellow pumice
maybe because i got good and dont need range anymore
pseudo onyx
I somehow have had the best times and highest heat with the spanner and it's prolly my least favorite lol
hard pier
Ranged fails at shield guys
alpine fulcrum
spanner?
pseudo onyx
was also my 1st clear wep too lol
mellow pumice
@alpine fulcrum you mean me? spears on 9, right now im doing 12 on rail
pseudo onyx
LOL sorry, adamant rail*
my brain did 'adamant spanner' which is an adventure zone reference
mellow pumice
DEATH BOAT
hard pier
Why's everyone got clears in rail? I despise that weapon
oak shore
@hard pier spear gets around shield guys implicitly by spamming throw ^^
alpine fulcrum
i realized the whole concept of going further in heat than you need to and having 'queued up' rewards is more important than i thought
hard pier
No idea what you're talking about, but good for you
alpine fulcrum
since ||EM2 is worth 2 heat and its uh..kind of a joke||
mellow pumice
@hard pier use hestia or 4th lole
hard pier
I'm having enough problems on 0 heat lul
pseudo onyx
OK, so, if I go Poseidon sword, obv I want to chase artemis removal of cast boon and +casts from her/hermes, (dunno what would be a good cast for that?)
and if I go Nemesis, I'm not sure what I'd wanna build
It seems like "always aphro special" lol
hard pier
Tasty tasty crits
sudden dock
Just jumped from 8 to 16 heat and did it 1st time! Damn, I'm good. And lucky.
pseudo onyx
I find it hard to feel strong with artemis but maybe it's because I just dont notice til the end when I have like, 6 of her boons and finally there's a lot of crit chance and marking going on, but I feel like that's worse on say, last boss esp with EM
I love dio on attack and his Duo boons are great
attack on fast wep*
hard pier
I personally don't like Aphrodite, but that's because I dislike her as a goddess in general
mellow pumice
Silence, wench. I do not wish to be horny anymore.
alpine fulcrum
think how easy the game would be if you could kill all the other gods besides athena
gusty slate
Yeah would insta win, no ||Hades||
pseudo onyx
Is this suddenly a GoW alt universe flying? lol
alpine fulcrum
i dont believe ||hades or zagreus|| are really gods
gusty slate
alpine fulcrum
people just tell them they're gods to make them feel better
mellow pumice
i like the concept of zag's godly power being ||the ability to summon those who he has strong bonds with||
pseudo onyx
I don't see how that's true for Hades, like. He fights with his other gods, his brothers lol
Talking from mythology perspective
i like the concept of zag's godly power being ||the ability to summon those who he has strong bonds with||
@mellow pumice ||Well, he's the "god of blood" according to in-game, which I kind of appreciate the whole life-death bond between he and Than||
Tho it's phrased as, "if Zag was a god he'd be" not that "he is"
alpine fulcrum
||being stuck in dead world no matter what just seems so un-godly||
mellow pumice
honestly? kind of disappointing how the ||companions are the 3 romances, and then the 3 people you meet during your escape, Sisyphus, Patroclus and.... not eurydice, but skelly.||
pseudo onyx
@alpine fulcrum ||I would dare you to say that to Hades hahaha I feel like death is more far-reaching than just about any of the other godly powers. But yes, almost the most paperwork laden it seems hahah||
hard pier
Artemis romance when
mellow pumice
i mean, Sisyphus says "You gods are capable of anything" when asked how ||shady|| works
austere jacinth
Artemis is your gay cousin, Pidge.
mellow pumice
artemis romance when
austere jacinth
Never, and I'm pretty sure SGG went on record with that one xDD
pseudo onyx
I want a speedrunners only romance with Hermes
mellow pumice
next dlc: ||you play as dionysus because hes the same as zagreus||
pseudo onyx
lol
mellow pumice
to romance hermes you have to get a sub 15 time
pseudo onyx
next dlc: ||you play as dionysus because hes the same as zagreus||
@mellow pumice OMG that WHOLE thing that he talks to Orpheus I was DYING at the mythology jokes
mellow pumice
i ADORE herms' dialogue about activating/deactivating the Timer Display
opaque nexus
I want a speedrunners only romance with Hermes
@pseudo onyx There is a hades racing event called Hermes cup
mellow pumice
@pseudo onyx i was shocked to find out that all those things were actual myths
pseudo onyx
i ADORE herms' dialogue about activating/deactivating the Timer Display
@mellow pumice ok i gotta do this now ive just always had it out
@pseudo onyx i was shocked to find out that all those things were actual myths
@mellow pumice Yeah and it's from the "Orphetic tradition" or something right? But doesn't really name Zagreus elsewhere for the most part?
pure barn
:0
austere jacinth
While Hermes has Charon, Hermes running a godly speed dating event would amuse the heck out of me.
pseudo onyx
LOL I feel like this would be a great opportunity to have like a panel with the VAs and run a silly podcast-esque thing of that
mellow pumice
hahah
pseudo onyx
Alrighty Im gonna max out Nemesis and see if I can get it to work in my favor
opaque nexus
I think Dusa’s VA is a part of Hermes cup, a commentator or something? I dunno
pseudo onyx
Speaks fast enough for it lol
mellow pumice
i looked at the voice actor page lately
sadly i forgot nearly all of it :|
i couldve sworn i heard somewhere that the Storyteller was also voiced by darren korb though. that was wrong.
pseudo onyx
OK--Is there any decent weapons that actuall go well with anything Demeter has to offer
mellow pumice
fists are ok
pseudo onyx
because I sort of low key can't get most of it to work except like 2 of her duos
mellow pumice
or you just do a cast run
opaque nexus
Oh her boons
mellow pumice
ice wine
opaque nexus
Snow burst is good support for cast builds
mellow pumice
ice wine >>>
pseudo onyx
I never really seem to run a cast build
I feel like it never lines up
except the one time I had the 'lasers fire at you' one
opaque nexus
If you get Arctic blast and like a Chiron special you can stack chill fast
Her attack and specials have a decent damage multiplier
Rare crop is a meme but can actually be really powerful
pseudo onyx
Oh yeah epic rare crop after getting dealt some boons you want but have low rarity is a delight
mellow pumice
Fully Loaded + Grasp + Flurry Cast
opaque nexus
Ravenous will damage actually applies when all your casts are loaded onto hera / ||beowulf||
mellow pumice
i dont think it does
opaque nexus
Pretty sure it does
opaque nexus
Demeter’s call is pretty bad
pseudo onyx
Fully Loaded + Grasp + Flurry Cast
@mellow pumice OK it makes me feel dumb that I can't think of what these all are from, mostly b/c I dont do cast builds obv haha
mellow pumice
it DOES work if you pick up Crush Shot with bw though
pseudo onyx
Demeter’s call is pretty bad
@opaque nexus I kind of like it in Elysium because the range is so large, but I take it if it's epic and hope for a swap lol
mellow pumice
@pseudo onyx admittedly fully loaded is artemis' Legendary, Grasp is from Chaos and gives you +1 stone, and Flurry Cast is from Hermes (hold to cast all)
im still waiting for the day that crush shot is removed from ||beowulf|| boon pool
opaque nexus
Fully loaded used to be way better
pseudo onyx
OH. Yeah, OK. Makes sense. So yeah, and then the "reduce timer" before unsticking and probably dio cast with ice wine and if you can get maybe zeus up in there to also duo and zap and freeze? (they overlap yea?)
opaque nexus
Back when mirage shot was just a normal Artemis boon and quick reload didn’t belong to Hermes
opaque nexus
Because of those changes now only one prerequisite for the legendary is actually related to casts
Poseidon Artemis
It used to be dual shot, which belonged to Artemis
mellow pumice
poseidon ahh
opaque nexus
Fully loaded also used to give 3 extra casts instead of 2
mellow pumice
opaque nexus
So it was kind of insane
pseudo onyx
What would you still suggest as the actual cast for a cast build?
pseudo onyx
I mean, I hate demeter's and Aphro's casts
opaque nexus
I hate ares cast
pseudo onyx
Oh that too
opaque nexus
Zeus cast is really fun
pseudo onyx
even with the sucking in/following it still sort of is a pain to aim and work
mellow pumice
hunting blades mirage shot
opaque nexus
I do recommend getting some more damage sources
If you plan on using Zeus cast
Like a call or something, exit wounds with poseidon sword
quiet gull
I tried an Ares cast build and didnt get Hunting Blades. Turns out you really need Hunting Blades
pseudo onyx
^^^^
pseudo onyx
It feels VERY bad, I actually greatly dislike Ares because half of his stuff relies on you heavily investing in him and then duos
opaque nexus
It has 2 duos like crystal beam, except both completely change it
pseudo onyx
Flood shot seems good, Trippy shot seems good?
opaque nexus
And the base cast is also good
pseudo onyx
if you can get ice wine or zeus's zappy
opaque nexus
I have not played around with curse of drowning or blizzard shot much admittedly
mellow pumice
theres a lot of boons that you get once for a prophecy and then never again
opaque nexus
Crush shot used to be way better
mellow pumice
just forget abt their existence
Crush Shot synergizes with ||Beowulf|| really well
opaque nexus
Passion flare is really good
Yeah
True shot is nice if you have a way to deal with crowds
mellow pumice
No no not passion flare
you can actually get crush shot
it has the same effect but the bloodstone doesnt drop
opaque nexus
Wut
opaque nexus
I don’t get what tou are saying
mellow pumice
im joking about a bug in the game
opaque nexus
Oh
opaque nexus
Only crush shot?
mellow pumice
And picking it up, not realizing its not passion flare, really doesnt do you good
As far as i know yea
Most others are entirely replaced with their Flare, but aphro has both available
brisk trail
Is that a known bug?
pseudo onyx
made that mistake yea
opaque nexus
Can’t even get hunting blades
pseudo onyx
can you get the ares+posideon one? The aoe around you? That might be ok?
pseudo onyx
tho that might be the water shot not ares
opaque nexus
It is with flood shot
shut wolf
so i am only missing ||Mati fish from Chaos|| do i have to late catch to get it? in wiki it says its common fish.
mellow pumice
i have to take a moment to admire how sgg really tried their best to add so many quality of life improvements
like how almost all projectiles deal 0 damage as soon as the last enemy dies
hard pier
Golden Touch vs. Deep Pockets?
I've been running golden touch for a long time now
mellow pumice
the only exception being traps and chaos-induced inferno bombs i think
Golden Touch all the way
i hardly even visit charon until styx
opaque nexus
Disagree