h1-discussion

[granite musk]

it took m long enough, but I finally got my hands on guan-yu aspect of the spear, anyone has the easiest setup to win with it? I'm currently using poseidon+zeus with duo but with the limited hp of the aspect, I'm not sure if that's the best idea

[high hamlet]

Is there anywhere I can see how to complete the favors for all the Olympians? I've apparently done Poseidon and Athena, but I don't know how to do any for the others.

[granite musk]

Saw this on a reddit thread:
Just talking to the Gods is not sufficient except with Zeus and Artemis.

Zeus: Just talk to the other gods and Zeus more, you need to hear each God's opinion about Zeus by talking to them with a Zeus boon already on.
Artemis: Talk to her more, she has a lot to say about Callisto.
Poseidon: Catch 18 fish total with the Rod of Fishing, then catch a fish in a run and talk to him.
Athena: Talk to her after three successful runs.
Dionysus: Gift Ambrosia to 10 different characters.
Ares: Kill 10,000 total enemies.
Hermes: Talk to him with the Lambent Plume at level three equipped.
Aphrodite: Forge bonds with Thanatos, Meg, and Dusa.
Demeter: Complete the epilogue.

obviously, you also need to give tham all nectar

[high hamlet]

dang, wish the game gave a little more context on all that lol, good to know ty

[granite musk]

yeah, some of these things are not that obvious

but also, same can be said for the hidden weapon aspect, this game expect you to do most of this as you naturally play, but yeah, it's kinda awkward

[rustic vale]

I’d recommend a special focused build over anything else tbh

it’s got really solid aoe off rip and +% special modifiers have better numbers than the strike based ones

you can pick up charged skewer to get up to 3x the base damage per throw which takes it from 45 -> 135 which is a really really solid base

So making use of aphrodite or artemis can work really really well

supply a bunch of extra special damage from chaos

athena is also a decent-ish option that provides some defensive utility but aphro just has massive numbers and a ton of defense as well

[brazen vault]

The Demeter and Poseidon legendary boons DO NOT EXIST

I’ve had ALL the requirements for BOTH of them

BUT THEY DINT SHOW UP

[frozen lion]

It's partially RNG
I've gotten both

[steady topaz]

I forget Wich god is Demeter?

Ice lady?

I think I got the legendary boons for em but I forget but I definitely remember getting some hella good duo boons from a few of the gods

I love when games have features like combining the effects of two things into one like a sort of fusion effect

[high hamlet]

So wait... I have the level 3 plume equipped but Hermes isn't saying anything that's giving me the last heart? I mean, ik I need to give him abrosia then but what I'm saying is it won't give me the option, it's still locked... T_T

[rustic vale]

Hades has a rng based dialogue system

so even if you meet the requirements you might be bottlenecked by rng

[rustic vale]

Legendary boons in general are just significantly harder to find than duos tbh

[high hamlet]

well thats great... one of the few gods that i cant garuntee T_T

[rustic vale]

you can do all the usual tricks for duos to get legendaries more consistently though

[brazen vault]

I had the mirror upgrade for higher legendaries TT

And the keepsakes for the respectable gods

[rustic vale]

You’re practically guaranteed to see him each run

[high hamlet]

I know but I don't wanna have to do a whole run just for that yk

[rustic vale]

He’s like a hammer

[rustic vale]

You have pretty high odds of seeing him at least once by the end of asphodel

I wanna say like a 90% chance

you just can’t see him at doors in tart so you’re stuck til asphodel outside of shops

[brazen vault]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Demeter in Asphodel tbh

… I have done 55 runs…

[rustic vale]

This has nothing to do with how the game is coded

[high hamlet]

yeah ik, which means if I don't get that dialogue that I need I'm just gonna restart the run and have to hope it'll work next time T_T

[brazen vault]

Huh.

It would kinda make sense to me. Like it’s too hot for her there or smthin

[rustic vale]

you just have either mid luck or you fill consistently your god pool up with 4 non-demeter Olympians (Hermes not included) before asphodel

[brazen vault]

No not usually. I usually just pick up 1-2 gods in Tartarus. Maybe a Hermes.

[rustic vale]

Hermes doesn’t count towards the god pool so he doesn’t matter for it

[brazen vault]

Huh yeah that’s really weird.

[rustic vale]

he’s more like a hammer than a god

[brazen vault]

That is fair. Whenever I’m using secret aspects I always try to get the boom to make my special/normal attack longer.

[rustic vale]

faster?

I know I usually always aim for hyper sprint -> rush delivery for global damage as a speedrunner

[brazen vault]

Like the ones that make your attack/special 10 or 20% faster

As a lot of the hidden aspects make your attacks heavy and slower but deal more damage.

[high hamlet]

Wait I pet cerberus 20 times and it didn't unlock the last couple hearts T_T

The quests for bonding with characters are so weird T_T

Hermes commented on the plume as well but it didn't unlock the last heart

like bro T_T

I'm so confused

[granite musk]

yeah, I got bottlenecked when trying to unlock Guan-Yu's aspect for the spear, Achilles didn't want to talk to me about it for over 20 runs, but I got it eventually

[gray plank]

ahhhhhhhhhhhh i can't beat it with 16 pact of punnishments

nooooo

[mint coral]

Rng issue sadly

[mint coral]

What's your pact

[gray plank]

i forgor been 2 weeks i played

[lament ridge]

anyone know how can i get flame wheel?

[lavish sorrel]

?

[vague nebula]

?

[lavish sorrel]

flamewheels are an elysium enemy-type. as such, "flame wheel release"s (assuming that's what you're referring to) can be bought only in item-wells in elysium.

[vague nebula]

One of the most annoying enemies

[lament ridge]

yes

release

[manic finch]

next to the bomber pots

[red jay]

hi

[wise token]

item-wells, random chance

[high hamlet]

I've killed like 20k enemies, maxed out my relationship with Ares (as far as I can), and after like 20 runs I STILL haven't gotten him to give me the quest for his last heart T_T

Isn't the quest to kill 10k enemies anyways?

This game just confuses me with the bond stuff T_T

[rustic vale]

Yeah it is

Rng hades dialogue sucks but you aren’t missing any requirements or prequisites if you already have 10k kills

He doesn’t “give you a quest” though

[high hamlet]

funny, it gave it to me like right after i mentioned it

[rustic vale]

Complaining about rng only to immediately have the rng solved is a Hades discord staple ngl

[high hamlet]

wait shouldnt that unlock the final heart tho? its still locked T_T

[rustic vale]

Did it not do the whole heart unlocking animation with it?

[high hamlet]

nope

[rustic vale]

Otherwise you haven’t hit the right dialogue line yet

[high hamlet]

well the prophecy is fulfilled... is there a whole other line of dialogue i need to get??

[rustic vale]

The prophecy is seperate 👍

[high hamlet]

nvm, just got it. don't understand why its a whole other line of dialogue, but cool.

[rustic vale]

Bc you can have the prophecy without having Ares at max hearts

[high hamlet]

ah

[granite musk]

I gotta say, I love how this game does the bond between Atreus and Dusa

I really like how romance isn't the end goal of this bond since Dusa really needs friends before she considers having a relationship considering her whole situation.

god this game's writing is so good

[little lark]

Do you guys think Zagreus works out?

What would his routine be?

[tacit ember]

Being Spider-Man safety specialist is so easy! I wake up, skip the workout 'cause I'm naturally buff and I don't wanna get too big, y'know? Do almost nothing with my amazing hair...

[lavish sorrel]

"Safety Specialist's a good job, mate! It's challenging work, underground, and guarantee you'll not go bored, 'cause at the end of the day, long as there's people left on the planet, someone's gonna want someone locked up in the underworld."

[tacit ember]

do all pulses from curse of drowning count as one attack for the achilles buff or several

[little lark]

He does have amazing hair...

[rustic vale]

Yes

1 cast

[tacit ember]

the aspect of demiter rotation is too convoluted for me bruh

im just gonna reload whenever

[tacit ember]

first hestia on 40 got to hades

the damage for tart and asph is great but im falling off around heros

not sure what to do about that

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1394734947180482570/1484665783526359152/image.png?ex=69bf0e42&is=69bdbcc2&hm=0921260a4b25476e9e32627b198a4d6427aa79d6f4a0f4b3c67d1d7b7886c828&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1104&height=740

bruh i missed 2 dds form athena now cuz i forgot to reset lol

bruh what is the build even

ive just been runnign aphro attack

i think i got all enemies in the than thing for the first time lol

[latent moon]

sounds about right for hestia

you want to try and bank up as much time in tart/aspho before you get to ely bc it falls off

a good special hammer and/or boon would help a bit, tidal dash maybe

and trying to get as close to the proper hestia rotation as possible lmao

[tacit ember]

is there a video tutorial somewhere

[latent moon]

prob not but you could slow down a hestia speedrun to see them go through it easier

[rustic vale]

Jazz has a video somewhere

[latent moon]

oh does she

idk where i'd find it lmao

a simplified version would be like special every other reload i think if i remember the combo correctly

[rustic vale]

https://youtu.be/2GH5OUk4__M?si=xLyblldrgdTBBdhR

I have it saved in a personal discord where I keep all my links and copypastas

Skip until you find hestia

[latent moon]

what in the hell is that thumbnail lmao

how did that happen

[tacit ember]

ok that was about what i was trying to do anyway

but i kinda cant keep up with using the special off cooldown

[latent moon]

i mean tbh as long as you get close enough that's prob fine

it'll prob come with practice

[tacit ember]

999358269422321774

i think im pretty close to clearing anyway

[tacit ember]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1394734947180482570/1484699343146713239/image.png?ex=69bf2d83&is=69bddc03&hm=b591d471a691d828587aad898eb071fc888b457d7a2eebb18150b96fce004603&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1596&height=269

lol

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-tom-rake-spade-hoe-gif-12584055

lol its actually gonna take me a year to get the fists win lol

are athena attack fists viable for high heat

[high hamlet]

I'm 7 achievements away from getting every achievement and out of everything in this game, I think my favorite thing is the little Chibis you get from maxing out your bond with characters

I know you don't need to max every bond for every achievement but I'm going to anyways, I love the Chibis too much

[tacit ember]

omgomg0ogm

i beat hader

dem fists first attempt at 40 where i got to hades

999358269422321774 999358269422321774 999358269422321774

maybe im not horrible at the game

i didnt even have any touch of styx or athena dds

999358269422321774 999358269422321774 999358269422321774

got lighting rod twice, sold the first time and got again lol

[latent moon]

Generally no lmfao

[fierce remnant]

hey guys, ive been playing hades and i felt like ive been missing something regarding boons combo, is there any spesific tips or unwritten build rule that i must follow to improve my run?

[latent moon]

things that hit fast for low base damage -> use flat damage boons (zeus, ares, dionysus)
things that hit slow for high base damage -> use % modifiers (basically only aphrodite or artemis, cases for athena/demeter at high rarity or poseidon special)

most build combos in this game revolve around a duo boon, so figure out which duo boon would sound good on that aspect and build towards that. even if you don't get the duo in the run, you still want to build towards that bc it's still a good build basis regardless

there's also a build guide pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat

[stiff obsidian]

what

[fierce remnant]

thankss

[fierce remnant]

ic ic, so does that means that i have to set myself into getting as many duo boons as i could possibly get?

[jagged hamlet]

Quality > quantity

[fierce remnant]

if that so ill have to do a research on what duo boon i want to get

if i want a really insane run

[latent moon]

you should never aim for more than 1 duo boon lmao

[fierce remnant]

really?!

well thats surprising

[latent moon]

it's just unrealistic

it's like doable ofc but 1 duo is gonna be most of your damage

like an easy example would be hunting blades on achilles

like yeah sure mirage shot would be easy to get bc you just need poseidon afterwards, but the 30% damage isn't that useful compared to razor shoals or just more poms on your cast

[fierce remnant]

ic ic

[latent moon]

it's not consistent to do and you're forcing yourself to take more boons rather than poms, gold, or hearts

and each time you don't get what you want you clog your pom options

[fierce remnant]

all this time ive been stacking up boons to get a higher chance for me to get duo boon 😭

[latent moon]

half the duo boons in this game aren't even good lmfao

[fierce remnant]

bc most of my insane run consist of around 3 duo boons

[fierce remnant]

fr?

[latent moon]

yeah

[fierce remnant]

is there a list on what duo boon should i target?

[latent moon]

it's prob in the guide pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat

it's not like a list but like

it gives you builds, in which there prob are duos in there

i'm gonna bs a duo tier list rq

"tier list"

[fierce remnant]

ic ic

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/f56xsh/duo_boons_tier_list/

i found this

[rotund tangle]

Looks like a bad list to me

[fierce remnant]

really 😭

[rotund tangle]

Blizzard Shot S and Merciful End B lmao

[latent moon]

never use reddit as a resource

[rotund tangle]

Though actually it looks like it's from pre-final version so maybe they were different Idk

[fierce remnant]

i mean we have different playstyle

[latent moon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1484778346054287390/image.png?ex=69bf7717&is=69be2597&hm=432066e0155a86e9eac884c613ad17bf327f8da73c33ca8a451abf1abc5767e5&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[fierce remnant]

ive been using reddit as main main resource for a pretty long time XD

[latent moon]

don't for this game lmao

[fierce remnant]

thx a lot man

[latent moon]

i've seen some atrocious stuff in that subreddit

[fierce remnant]

fr? XD

[latent moon]

to be clear, it's not in any order, it's just categories of usable to least usable lmao

[fierce remnant]

that aphrodite and zeus boon combo has been carrying a lot of my runs

[fierce remnant]

nah it dont have to be

[latent moon]

basically only look at the top row, the 2nd row lowkey those 2 aren't even that good

but it's like doable lmao

[rustic vale]

Pro tip

Avoid Reddit like the plague

for Hades at least

I’d say most games in general but some are fine

[rotund tangle]

Hey Splitting Headache has a use case! ...on Chiron ...when you also have Low Tolerance ...and Heart Rend

[fierce remnant]

thats surprising

[latent moon]

i should also mention in that the list i made, the duos in the top row isn't like "these work on anything" you gotta find the right aspect to throw one on lmao

[rustic vale]

Reddit usually tends to be pretty echo chambery I find

ends up very stuck in one era of a game

[latent moon]

lmfao yeah lemme crit with a 7.5% rate rq on my base 10 damage special arrows

[fierce remnant]

ayy thx fr the tips chat, i didnt know and wouldnt know that reddit isnt a really good resource for hades if its werent bc of u guys

[rustic vale]

In Hades case it hasn’t moved on from like 2020

[rustic vale]

Most good builds aim for 1, and maybe a second if it lines up

a few good builds don’t really care at all like crush burst Hera or fds soup rails could find some but it’s never crucial to the build

[latent moon]

reddit thinks chiron is a top tier aspect lmao

[rustic vale]

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide

Here

This has a few builds for every aspect, it might have a few spoilers if you haven’t reached the surface or haven’t got all the hidden aspects

not every build on this website is made equally in any regard. They’re pretty much all functional at default, but looking at each aspect there’s usually 1-2 meta ones for a given aspect and 1-2 just decent ones

[jagged hamlet]

Where dash poms

[fierce remnant]

it SEEMS good tho

[rotund tangle]

It's good and fun and easy to use but it doesn't compare to stuff like Hera and Rama in the hands of capable players (not me)

[latent moon]

yeah it does bc it's very intuitive to use and make a good build on

very straight forward to figure out and use

but yeah if you figure out hera or rama, chiron is bottom tier easily

[fierce remnant]

ic ic

[latent moon]

or like nearly any aspect besides chiron lmfao

[rustic vale]

Zag bow too tbh

[latent moon]

yeah

[little lark]

I actually really like the Chiron bow

Stacking Special damage buffs is funny

Crazy how like

Bottom tier weapons aren't even unusable

They're just less viable

[granite musk]

I tried the fourth aspect of the spear and man, it sucks to use, to be fair I got unlucky and didn't get explosive launcher in that run, but even then, that hp penalty is way too brutal for how sluggish you are with your attack and special

[tacit ember]

guanyu cant get the explosive hammer lol

the whole idea is that its built in

imo its kinda just plays like bow but less fun

[granite musk]

I didn't know that

but yeah, it's just a slower spear with the hp penalty of a cursed slash run

I am not a fan

at least the prophecy only requires you to reach the surface, not kill hades

so I can shelf this weapon and never use it again

My current favorite build for spear is just most Poseidon boons with Zeus for that duo with static discharge, seing enemies get blasted betwwen wall as their hp bars dissapear is really fun

[tacit ember]

i do like the healing

[granite musk]

doesn't work as well on bosses, but static discharge + razor shoals deals with that

[tacit ember]

but in my experience athena spin isnt great for the hades fight

[granite musk]

I didn't get the hammer that speeds up the spin, so the healing was hard to get without getting hit in return

[lavish sorrel]

athenaspin is not exactly great damage as a whole

very good AoE, very good safety if played right, but it doesn't have much damage

[granite musk]

isn't the whole point of athenaspin to block projectiles?

oh nvm

but yeah, Guan Yu spear is not my jam

[lavish sorrel]

two main uses

• deflect everything that can be deflected, which makes bullethell rooms easier
• heal

[tacit ember]

999358269422321774

ill push some heat with guanyu for patriotism

[lavish sorrel]

gy heat is really freaking punishing because of the low health (and quite needy build-wise), but with the prerequisite skill the aspect has high potential (has an AP1 61 heat unmodded and a 64 modded, both by playad. both using athenaspin because charged skewer strats don't deal with damage control well)

[tacit ember]

999358269422321774

ill do some lower heat guanyu to learn it

i imagine aphro special with athena attack is the build

even if im not going to be spinning the dash attack has a large aoe to reflect

[lavish sorrel]

you'll generally exclusively be using spin on athenaspin or almost exclusively special on cskewer (occasional dashstrikes aside).

so it's either athena attack or any strong special (preferably aphro though if possible, as you mentioned. arty special is best for damage though I think since cskewer is additive (?))

[tacit ember]

what exacly is good about guanyu special compared to just playing bow

[lavish sorrel]

depends on the strategy you're using

on cskewer, it's because that hammer is quite strong

on athenaspin, a tap of the special-button can be utilized for an animation-cancel on the spin

[tacit ember]

on an unrelated note, does the shotgun hammer affect the empowered shot for hestia

[lavish sorrel]

nope! it still slightly changes the sound-effect though lmfao

[tacit ember]

ok so you would want to see special hammers for more single target damage

999358269422321774

[lavish sorrel]

single-target? no, it still pierces enemies. it's guan yu.

the special doesn't work the same way exploding launcher does for the other spears

[tacit ember]

i was thinking of hestia

[lavish sorrel]

oh duh, I was still on gy

[tacit ember]

i imagine for c skewer guanyu you wouldn't mind breaching or chain but those dont seem super impactful

[lavish sorrel]

chain doesn't exist on gy

[tacit ember]

o

[lavish sorrel]

and breaching is a fine second hammer for cskewer

in the case of high heat hestia, imo the hammer-order is (best to worst):

• cluster bomb (anti-savior and good damage)
• hazard bomb (damage)
• piercing fire (anti-armor)
• ricochet fire (bad piercing)
• triple bomb (anti-savior)
• targeting system (damage)
• rocket bomb (damage. top-tier if you have cluster or triple already)
• everything else
• spread fire (you can break pots fast in dad by holding down the attack, having spread fire makes it very hard to do without also tanking the pot after it explodes

hopefully didn't forget anything

[tacit ember]

i would have thought richochet to be a bit better than piercing

piercing feels less consistent

and on the run i cleared 40 i picked tripple over over cluster

[vast raven]

triple is objectively worse than cluster

[tacit ember]

i figure reliable 300% dmg was better than 5*70% that was less reliable

[lavish sorrel]

the problem is that hestia struggles a fair amount with damage in the backhalf. (maybe part of this is 59 heat PTSD on my part, but it's true lower-down too)

[tacit ember]

oh wow hazard is just straight up +300%, i didnt realise that

[lavish sorrel]

hazard is actually better than you think, it's a BASE damage bonus so it scales off of additive for special (to be clear, even if it didn't, 300% additive would still be stupid strong)

[tacit ember]

it might be a good thing that hazard cannot be combined with cluster, tripple or rocket cuz i would forsure blowmyself up

[vast raven]

obligatory “hazard cannot be combined with aspect of eris” mention

[tacit ember]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1394734947180482570/1484993152711528679/image.png?ex=69c03f25&is=69beeda5&hm=95c2db773b938ec53fd86ac69e49b8d49a9daa7e47a8e9ebab81862770bd7e3c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1214&height=593

[vast raven]

thats false btw

[tacit ember]

yea i was gonna say i could have sworn you could get it lol

is hazard usable for resetting stubborn

[vast raven]

yes

kinda

[tacit ember]

1% every special doesnt seem that great

[vast raven]

it can do a fair amount of self damage with an arti spec or aph spec

[tacit ember]

the self damage scales?

999358269422321774

thats fun

i might try to do a run where i try to maximise self damage form hazard bomb

that and a pacifist run

gonna take a break form high heat

[granite musk]

I'm maxing out all the keepsakes and the god ones are a pain when they aren't part of your main build

[lavish sorrel]

I threw an hour at this the other day, you're essentially resetting for:

• vengeance-effect in c1
• vengeful mood before lernie

if you don't get one of these two you're 100% dead

[tacit ember]

what weapon would i want to use

[lavish sorrel]

arthur

[tacit ember]

i dont have arthur so i might use zag fists

999358269422321774

[lavish sorrel]

I don't think if that gives you enough effective HP lmfao

(like obviously you could just get lucky and dodge an unreasonably high amount of hits, but chances are that's not happening)

[tacit ember]

i figure i would use traps for everything in tart and when i get the duo ill just not get hit

[lavish sorrel]

🔥

[tacit ember]

999358269422321774

i suppose furies might be a bit scuffed

[lavish sorrel]

well, best of luck to you. doing it on something other than arthur will definitely be more rng-heavy

[high hamlet]

Is there anything specific I need to do for the hidden aspects for the shield and fists? I saw you need to talk to chaos for the shield, but I've had it equipped and I've talked to them like 10 times and still nothing

[atomic creek]

upgrade their weapon

their aspect I mean

just dialogue doesn't make it

With the shield

same goes for fists too, can't even remember the character, who gives you that

[latent moon]

The reqs are pinned in #h1-story-discussion

[static pelican]

in the name of hades Olympus i accept this message

[high hamlet]

I've upgraded some of the aspects for both a good couple times, when I looked it up people were saying you need to spend 5 blood on said weapon, which I've def done

[tacit ember]

oh bruh you cant clear the first cahmbe rin tart if you dont have a revenge boon

💀💀💀

bruh and i cant even reset easily because of dd

this cattegory is horrenous

do the pillars count as passifist

im just gonna do that

ok seems enemy attacks can hit pillars

i hope that zeus zap when you dodge an attack boon counts cuz im gonna count it

br8uh i accently kille dsmth while trying ot hit pilalrs

[lavish sorrel]

yeah I did tell you pacifist is kinda reset-heavy, you had been warned

sometimes you can clear chambers with traps, if the enemy-type even lets you (wringers and soul catchers can't, for example)

but definitely not reliable, sometimes you don't have enough traps to kill all enemies, or you get enemies that can't (reliably) activate the traps in question while being nearby to take the damage

[vast raven]

i remember trying it out for an hour resetting for ares revenge boon c1 and then gave up after not seeing it once:))

[tacit ember]

lol what if using chaos curses to activate revenge

risk of hiting smth prolly too high

me when ares inshop but cant afford

omg

pots in shop pushed me over the amount i needed

bbbbbbbbased

bruh didnt have enouhg dmg to kill the jumpy miniboss guys

bruh shoudl i be using dd or stuborn

i cant get past the miniboss with stubborn

brubhrurhbuhrbuhbruh

ofcoruse when im doign this i get two hammer starts in a row

omg fr

<@&456908176877551658>

omg

ofcourse its the jjk pfps getting hacked lol

[jagged hamlet]

The poor, illiterate fools

[tacit ember]

are summons allowed in passifist

im gonna use it for the first miniboss lol

heehhe duo in tart shop

lol im feeling quite strong actually

im sure the damage falls off by heros though

hades time

oh is doom supposed to be a refenece to damocles

that went way over my head lol

[jagged hamlet]

Well, I hope it at least doesn't fall on your head

[tacit ember]

999358269422321774

if i was that guy i would simply have taken the sword off

is he stupid

[little lark]

Triple Bomb is by far one of the most fun upgrades on Lucifer's aspect

It deals so much damage

[little lark]

I swear my skill issue is so horrid when it comes to a Gilgamesh aspect

I've won more than the Zag aspect than I have with the Gilgamesh one

[jagged hamlet]

Gilgamesh isn't a great aspect, so don't feel bad

[little lark]

It's a shame because the fists are really fun

Also

I like to think that the Trial of the Gods are just the gods betting on who the favorite is

[stiff obsidian]

h1-discussion

controlle default binds good enough?

[rustic vale]

Aside from cast for loading castpects

might want to move that to one of your triggers

I’ve seen a few people complain about default reload but I’ve never had an issue with it

[stiff obsidian]

ok

time for my first controller run

what heat

[stiff obsidian]

this is so unintuitive wtf

this dioesnt make sense

one finger for dash and atk and special and cast?

[wise token]

whew, finally got the credits!

now i heard theres some kind of epilogue in the game, how do i get it?

[wise token]

thats why i remapped them

[lavish sorrel]

force of habit; it's definitely different to kbm and you don't have the muscle memory for it at this time

[little lark]

I'm sorry but

No matter how bad the Guan Yu aspect is

It's my favorite aspect

I love lifesteal effects in video games

[rotund tangle]

Funny how in Hades 2 there's a lifesteal aspect that doesn't have the terrible half-HP drawback

Why did they think the drawback was necessary for GY

I really liked GY for the strong special

[little lark]

Cause it's kinda strong tbh

It's free sustain

Same reason why you need a specific setup to get Stubborn Roots

Having free mid-combat healing is pretty nice since it essentially lets you undo your mistakes

Difference between Stubborn Roots and Guan Yu though is obviously the fact that Stubborn Roots lets you have a different weapon on hand

[rotund tangle]

I remember my first non-shield win was Quick Spin spam with Guan-Yu lol

[little lark]

Mine was with Special spam with the Rail

With the upgrade that increases the damage of the bomb by 300%

That was fun

Despite me not really liking Adamant Rail gameplay-wise, it's my best performing weapon

[vast raven]

if i had to guess it was just a worry that the healing was "too strong" without the drawback, but when making ||nergal for hades 2 realized that the hp nerf was unneeded|| or smthn

[rotund tangle]

Tbh they might have been right seeing how Guan-Yu cleared 64h modded

[rancid ember]

Meanwhile (H2 spoilers, belated spoiler tagging) ||it's available as a basic Ares boon in H2 and still isn't that hard to die with it active even though it's a v. good boon||

[rotund tangle]

Well that has the caveat of only working at very low HP where you're dead to 1-2 hits

[little lark]

Ig it's because Hades 2 has different combat pacing

[rancid ember]

So does Guan Yu

[little lark]

I wouldn't know because I haven't played H2 yet

[rancid ember]

Wrong reply

Or wait right reply

[vast raven]

||same thing could be said for hades 2 with nergal given it has cleared both routes at max fear lol||

[rancid ember]

Just edited lmao

[little lark]

I NEED TO STOP CLICKING THESE SPOILER TAGS MAN

THEY'RE CALLED SPOILER TAGS FOR A REASON

I feel like Pandora with that box Zeus gave her

Haha get it?

Funny Greek mythology reference in funny Greek mythology inspired game Discord

(Please laugh)

[rancid ember]

This reminded me to add the spoiler tag even if it's just mechanical

[rotund tangle]

||Pandora is in Hades 2|| <- a spoiler for Hades 2 that you should not click

[little lark]

Darn.

Then again...

What if...

NOOOO

I CLICKED

[stiff obsidian]

nah

like literally how am i supposed to even play rail

hold atk and dash

??

impossible

[little lark]

Honestly

That's why I don't like the Rail

[stiff obsidian]

what u use

[little lark]

It's not as fun and button-mashy as the other weapons

[stiff obsidian]

oh its buttonmashy

[little lark]

The Triple Bomb upgrade has been a go-to of mine with the Lucifer aspect

You turn your gun into a nuke launcher

It absolutely obliterates enemies

[stiff obsidian]

yes

[little lark]

Main issue is like

You actually have to mind where you place your bombs

[stiff obsidian]

no kidding

🤔

[little lark]

I do wonder if Triple Bomb and Hazard Bomb stack

[stiff obsidian]

they dont

[little lark]

Aw

That would've been insane

[stiff obsidian]

wait

[little lark]

900% damage

[stiff obsidian]

well not on lucifer u cant get it on lucifer

[little lark]

In one concentrated area

[little lark]

Lorewise, I was really confused with the Lucifer aspect

The aspects in general make me think about how each mythology ties into each other a lot

[wise token]

on PS4, R1 for light, R2 for heavy, L2 for cast and L1 for dash

[little lark]

I haven't really had an answer to it yet

My guess is that they just coexist

And have dominion over those that believe in them or something

[stiff obsidian]

oo

[little lark]

Can you explain what "modded" is in the context of Hades?

[rotund tangle]

I think it was modded to guarantee Athena attack and Quick Spin first hammer

[vast raven]

the SRC modpack (+usually 1 additional mod specific to high heat that guarantees boon 1 to be epic)

[little lark]

Ohhh

So

Theoretically

If you get those on a 64H run

You could theoretically beat it?

Ig the main issue now would be rolling runs, am I correct?

[vast raven]

seeds needed to go through to get "the run", execution, rooms, and skips

modded in this context pretty much eliminates that first issue

[little lark]

So basically

Modded just makes runs less dependant on RNG by gauranteeing "core" upgrades

If I'm not mistaken

[stiff obsidian]

standardized modpack

[stiff obsidian]

yes

[vast raven]

pretty much, there are a few other things like limiting the miniboss pool as well as guaranteeing a 2 sack it just removes a lot of run killer effects

[stiff obsidian]

i cant even rebind my controls

game just crashes

[little lark]

Heh, speedrunners are such nerds

[vast raven]

has to be a sign

[little lark]

Persevere with default controls

[stiff obsidian]

game music doesnt play despite being at 100%

[little lark]

Like how Sisyphus does

[stiff obsidian]

what the hell

[little lark]

Try adjusting the knob again

[stiff obsidian]

yea a sign to go back to kbm 🙏

[little lark]

That usually fixes it for me

[stiff obsidian]

it works while adjusting the slider

but as soon as i get out of that menu it stops

[little lark]

Huh

Odd

Did you Alt + Tab the game?

[stiff obsidian]

main menu music works

ok its back

weird

[wise token]

the upper buttons are usually easier for me to press

[stiff obsidian]

yea i can tell

lol

[wise token]

also i hold the controller with a finger on each button

so its faster

its easier to go through the weapon cycles that way

[little lark]

WHAT?

THE

EURYDICE GAVE ME A BOON UPGRADE

AND MY FOUNTAIN DIONYSUS BOON

SAYS IT GIVES 0%

[stiff obsidian]

show

[little lark]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1422345183126749256/1485293598931947580/image.png?ex=69c156f5&is=69c00575&hm=2e36fb1294d6d5719b3223a18fd0b348ce2a4ad49300d6d4e8a93ea8d73c5a4f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=996&height=560

?????

[stiff obsidian]

proll just visual

[little lark]

Maybe

Okay yeah

It is

Just used the Fountain

6% damage

[lavish sorrel]

LOL

thank you hades the videogame

[high hamlet]

So I’m really close to getting every achievement for the game, only need the hidden aspect for the fists and maxing every keepsake… I may have played 80 hours in the past 2 weeks (I have 90 hours in all)

[tacit ember]

for high heat rama should i use arti or aphro as my starting god

why arti dash over aphro attack and just using some other dash

ig arti attack for crit

[lavish sorrel]

the theory says artemis (can start dash or attack) for unmodded, and aphrodite (can start attack) for modded. in practice you can do either, with probably one level less of approval process if you run aphrodite

[misty bay]

I wanna get a physical copy but it's so expensive

Might have to buy a Japanese import, they're only like £30

[high hamlet]

I’d love physical copies for every game… but expensive.

Also I don’t really think there’s anything like that for PCs

[misty bay]

I play on switch so it's no problemo

[tacit ember]

i suppose i should try to push all weaposnto 51 heat

have to prove that im not beo carried

[stiff obsidian]

Why 51

[lavish sorrel]

can't have beo be the highest heat aspect 🔥

[vast raven]

true play a real aspect like zag bow

[frozen lion]

Refer to my name.

[manic finch]

Big boss

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid-snake-big-boss-gif-12248663

[rustic vale]

Someone needs to push zag bow past chiron

[vast raven]

oh wait what are the records

no way zagbow is lower

[rustic vale]

58 and 57 respectively I think?

lemme double check

[tacit ember]

bruh i got stomped by the stupid miniboss

[rustic vale]

Chiron is higher because someone I can’t remember decided to just run chiron for a bit

[frozen lion]

"You get hurt, hurt them back. You get killed... walk it off."

[tacit ember]

i dont know what that is referencing

[vast raven]

timothy? i remember him playing a fair amount of chiron for a bit

[frozen lion]

Age of Ultron

[rustic vale]

Oh both are 60 for modded and 55 for unmodded

the world is fine now

[lavish sorrel]

yeah tim has modded chiron reccy I think (and twr by mysterra? don't remember what mods were used though)

[vast raven]

not higher for unmodded tho…

[rustic vale]

I remembered it being higher at one point

They’re tied both modded/unmodded atp

[dim musk]

https://tenor.com/view/mets-baseball-homerun-gif-12571819431418851501

[tacit ember]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1394734947180482570/1485378004946518149/image.png?ex=69c1a591&is=69c05411&hm=921426cbe912a151ca8187c19628d4b8a3c3f7f922fbc2469b07addd2896babe&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1104&height=747

moment

[spare epoch]

After completing H2 I’m back to H1. Still need Heat 16 statue.

[inland fiber]

Jesus christ why are all the prophecies so complicated to get done. Trying to go for the trophies and i’m completely lost and overwhelmed

[little lark]

Trophies?

[tacit ember]

maybe after i finish 51 on all weapons ill push some heat in h2

i hardly even learned any builds in that game

[rotund tangle]

My highest in H1 is 40, in H2 it's 58, I think if you can do 51 in H1 you might be able to do the big 62 in H2

[tacit ember]

the big 62?

[rotund tangle]

H2 has less punishing oath (pact) options and a lot more defensive and survivability tools

67 is max, 62 is everything but Vow of Void which is basically Routine Inspection

[tacit ember]

hm ok

[lavish sorrel]

Yeah that doesn't seem far off 👍
(Depends on chosen aspect though)

[vast raven]

||lwk aspect in h2 doesnt matter at all jpom's existence makes it so freelo once u just hit 😭||

[lavish sorrel]

||I think you're out of touch, no offense. While jpom definitely helps a bunch, not everyone is good enough to play out any seed on any aspect. Like, I suspect that even with the best rng I personally could not, at this current time, beat an uw 62 on any off-meta aspect because I just faceplant on any remotely dangerous chamber, if the aspect doesn't have the power to carry me (I for example cannot for the life of me avoid chronos p3 scythe throw. I've managed it a single time). I am surely not alone in saying that. That is entirely and undeniably a skill issue on the player's part. As such, 62 fear fundamentally takes some amount of skill. This is in stark contrast to hades 32 heat for example, where I conjecture that regardless of skill-level, with info on what choices to make, a lot of good rng and some super degenerate but safe HL0 AP2 RI1 pact, any player (even someone with the skills of a complete beginner) could probably pick up the game and win. Someday I might create a runcontrol route and make someone else in my family play it to prove this point.||

[lavish sorrel]

It just occured to me that your statement may have been hyperbole, in which case I'm sorry.

[stiff obsidian]

be fr

[rancid ember]

I mean while I agree that aspect matters (they all have different playstyles and damage potentials) also I'm confused af at this idea that a complete beginner could win 32 heat

a complete beginner, unless they're super talented, lucky beyond RNG alone even with the perfect build, and have a strong background in very similar action games, will probably take 10s of wins to get their first at 0 hear even with perfected study beforehand and perfect RNG lmao

Skill generally needs to be actually developed beyond the abstract

[vast raven]

not hyperbolic, but let me explain rq ||Saying that you can win doesn't immediately mean any one will win, but any run has the capacity to given the player's skill. That I'm sure we can agree on, I actually think you're a great example of my point. One thing I'd like to make clear is that I NEVER once said any seed or anything in relation to something like streaking or no reset, how this relates to you is that you admit to not really knowing the fights well and yet you won on a 62 where you kinda just hit if my memory serves properly. I also back this up from the amount of (no offense to the players) poorly executed or decision made 62s.||

[lavish sorrel]

I'm talking about the very best rng here. Enough damage to 1shot any boss. Epic Rush Delivery with like 8 ignited ichors

[rancid ember]

I think given the sheer number of enemies rocket tag is still losable but also I think you're making a different point I'm just beginning get a half-shade of

[tacit ember]

buddies are comparing paragraph sizes

[rancid ember]

I possibly shouldn't try to participate in conversations while still in bed, heh

now at PC but should potentially caffeinate

[lavish sorrel]

The whole point I was making is that 32 heat can be made mechanically easy to the point where there exists a runcontrol route, on 32 heat on a maxxed save, that anyone with a set of eyes to look at the screen, the theoretical knowledge, but no mechanical ability or previous experience could beat.

In my conjecture, I bring up a mod called "runcontrol", which aims to remove as much rng from hades as possible, to let the player determine what happens during the run. That removes the rng-requirement. This should, even if making sure the route is baglegal (could in theory happen in-game), allow any player to win, because the player is told what choices to make in the route file, and can 1shot any enemy or boss with minimal effort thanks to the build-quality provided by the route.

I'm not saying the pact idea I gave is anywhere near reliable, or that 32 heat on average is this trivial (still quite easy given good pact, but not to this extent).

[rancid ember]

On the one hand, someone with no mechanical skill could feasibly lose to the Numbskulls in the first room, given how severe "skill issue" can actually be

On the other hand that's probably beside the point in terms of noting that the game can still be made comparatively extremely easy by luck and preparation.

So fair probably?

[tacit ember]

It has occurred to me that sword gameplay is honestly almost kinda accurate to how I fence lol

Because I'm not comfortable with parrying yet all I do is footwork to void (empty dash) and lunges (dash attack)

Gonna have to learn to ground pound

[lavish sorrel]

Special 🔥

[stiff obsidian]

summons when

[tacit ember]

Summons in form of corrupt olympic judges giving the exchange to whoever they feel like

You have to be from the same country as the judge though (high affection score)

[frozen lion]

Headcanoning sword special as a ground pound now, thanks

[rustic vale]

What about bloodstone casting?

[brisk trail]

got back to 1 after 100%'ing 2, just got my first clear on run 7, using the shield with aphro/ares
so what now? how do I unlock the aspects?

also, daddy 2nd phase is a bit spicy, good thing I had 600 hp (combined, 275 base hp, 2 dd's + tooth lv 1), burned through all but the last 50 hp, how the hell do you beat that without the shield, he does a 360 laser

though that said, my damage was ass too, so that led to more mistakes

[rotund tangle]

Can sit behind the big stone pillars or stand right next to him (but I've never tried the latter)

[brisk trail]

yeah but what's the telegraph, I feel like the lasers come out pretty quickly, I barely had enough time to put up the shield

also, is there a Strength equivalent, it feels bad to lose big chunks of health to a small mistake

[vast raven]

nope

[brisk trail]

oh well, at least I can do everything before Hades without burning through DD's

[vast raven]

theres stubborn defiance, alt to dds that is one heal per chamber that heals 30% ||essentially stalwart stand from h2||

[brisk trail]

and yeah, someone said in the Hades 2 chat last night that the HP in the first game scales worse and having like 150 by the final boss is fine, this is just not true

I stacked 275 hp, and I only took 2 paths in Styx

[vast raven]

thats correct tho

150 is fine

[brisk trail]

also, about Cerb's keepsake, that one is basically worthless, right? you lose the boost when you unequip it

[vast raven]

has like 1 niche but ye

[brisk trail]

Orpheus' distant memory seems like it could be OP though

[rotund tangle]

Some people use Cerb keepsake for last area since it gives more effective HP than Tooth sometimes

Orpheus keepsake sounds good but "distant" is VERY distant

[vast raven]

the range is so long for it to be usuable with the bonus not being enough given how melee zag is

[brisk trail]

is it good with shield? like spamming ares/zeus special

[vast raven]

it isnt a global effect iirc

[brisk trail]

doom seems strong, and the one time I had the zeus special on shield that was a room cleaner too

also should I splurge and buy the third DD for 1k darkness right now, or save it for later

[rustic vale]

Do it

[brisk trail]

mirror's B side skills seem like ass, and I already have the A side filled out mostly, until the 10 key breakpoint

[vast raven]

alt side has some good stuff, a fair amount of good stuff actually

[rustic vale]

The universally good ones on ghe green side are at the bottom

[brisk trail]

so for the aspects, I have to buy the fists and the gun first, then the aspects will just unlock on their own?

[rustic vale]

yeah

[rotund tangle]

None of the "offensive" keepsakes in this game are that good tbh aside from Shackle and maybe Earring but they're very niche

I guess ||Sigil|| too

[brisk trail]

why play anything but shield though lol

[rustic vale]

you need to die in a run after buying all the weapons for the house of Hades to update

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-butler-what-am-i-reading-what-am-i-looking-at-guy-looking-at-paper-jimmy-butler-looking-at-paper-gif-10656430272991200421

bounties are tracked on a weapon basis so you are going to miss out on like 83% of your bounty rewards if you just stick to shield 🥀

[brisk trail]

oh I'm sure I will die, Elysium was so horrible this run I thought I was cooked, but then Styx was just 2 paths and I was at full hp and full DD's, so daddy was doable

I still really really hate Elysium, it's such an ass area

[rustic vale]

Yeah but what I mean is it just isn’t immediate

you buy the last weapon and then you need to do a run first

before you get aspects

[brisk trail]

and you spend the blood thingie to unlock them?

[rustic vale]

Yes

[brisk trail]

I have like 4 or something, does that mean I can unlock 4 right away?

[rustic vale]

They don’t all cost 1

some start off costing 2

and you just get lvl1 when you unlock them then you can use titans blood to level them up to a max of lvl5

[brisk trail]

I'll probably get the shield one, idk, maybe a gun aspect as well, could be fun to cosplay Eris

[rustic vale]

Funny you would say that

[brisk trail]

yeah it seems like this is just nightmare, the final Charon shop even offers it for the same price, 1200 g

[rustic vale]

Lowkey

[brisk trail]

how the hell do you get 1200 g though, seems impossible

[rustic vale]

I’ve been too caught up with other stuff to bother getting Hades 2 so I just know Hades 1 well

[rustic vale]

Pretty achievable tbh

[brisk trail]

you probably need more upgrades from the builder shade

[rustic vale]

literally any amount of +% obols and just not spending too many obols should get you there or at least pretty close without needing to go particularly out of your way

[brisk trail]

also, is the god pool only 3 gods in this game? it's 4 in H2

[rustic vale]

4 for Hades 1

[brisk trail]

ah yeah, I got ares/aphro/dio/poseidon

dio was a bit of a waste though, regret taking him

I thought it was Aphro's sigil! got too eager

also, turns out Aphro's Life Affirmation is not retroactive like in 2, so you need to take it early

I got it in region 1 so it was fine though

[lucid crest]

How you play the lyre?

[rustic vale]

Walk up and interact with it

To get good at it you need to interact ||210|| times

[lucid crest]

Ok, ||then talk to Orpheus right?||

[rustic vale]

You’ll noticably get better at playing 2 or 3 times before Zag is officially good and each time Orpheus can comment on it too brw

[lucid crest]

Will I get a cue for when to stop?

[rustic vale]

Yeah

Can’t remember what it is though

[tacit ember]

Nothing is stopping me from throwing my blood at people

[brisk trail]

is Demeter considered good in 1? her % boost seems high but the chill effect is meh

also, what's the deal with Alecto's rage mechanic? she just gets faster? I found her easier than Meg tbh, and then Tisiphone was just a very weird fight but very short

it's kinda odd how these reskins are easier than the OG fight, OG Hydra has that machinegun attack in phase 3 which can deal a lot of damage, while the other hydras are much more tame

[jagged hamlet]

<@&456908176877551658>, could you delete the genital reacts, pls

[brisk trail]

[hexed smelt]

the huh

[rustic vale]

Not at all

Her +% is equivalent to Athenas

but her effects don’t really matter at all

and she really doesn’t have too much going on for secondaries aside from gambling with rare crop, and ravenous will

Her one real build is crush burst hera where you can really make use of snow burst (and ravenous will tbf) on the loading castpect since your casts take 0 time and it lets you set up priv status for once

[manic finch]

I'm in a server where general is called genitals

[rustic vale]

Lernie can still do this in EM2

You probably just haven’t noticed that Lernie has 4 different coloured heads he can roll for the fight

and only one of them does the projectile burst

[brisk trail]

got to Hades with Demeter strike lv 4 on Spear, too little damage, died halfway through phase 2

rip

[rustic vale]

Spear is going to work better with flat damage on strike

[tacit ember]

999358269422321774

[rustic vale]

for the most part

[tacit ember]

we love rare crop though

[brisk trail]

seriously? it's not that fast
I also got Artemis flourish + chain skewer so it was okay for clearing rooms

[tacit ember]

hammer

[brisk trail]

but bosses wise it was pretty bad, both heroes and daddy were like chipping away at a rock

[rustic vale]

Doom for merciful end is rather high damage, it attacks fast enough to inflict a lot of stacks of hangover which do a lot more than you’d think and the bulk of zeus strikes damage comes from jolted

[brisk trail]

what's merciful end

[rustic vale]

athena/ares duo

lets anything that deflects cause doom to instantly fall on a doomed target when they get hit

like if you dash into a doomed enemy with divine dash

[tacit ember]

ive not tried ME spear but seems a bit scuffed

[brisk trail]

also I got holy shield epic rarity from Athena, is that good or bad, it seems like it tanks the next hit if you get hit twice quickly

[tacit ember]

woudlnt you be givingup all the range to prock ME

[brisk trail]

deflect dash never dropped....

[rustic vale]

sort of? But most other ways of playing spear already make use of tidal dash

[tacit ember]

tidal has quite some range compared to athena

[vast raven]

holy shield doesnt really care about rarity, it's more so that it's just additional iframes

[tacit ember]

💪 revenge damage

[lavish sorrel]

demeter vengeance effect for the damage

[brisk trail]

the next thirsty weapon is the gun I just unlocked

woah, the base damage is only 10

this will need some on hit effect like Zeus

[formal topaz]

so asterius being called "bull of minos" also implies that king minos exists in the verse, does this also imply the... uh...

[rustic vale]

well like

Asterius existing is pretty dependent on King Minos existing

[formal topaz]

poseidon has some explaining to do

[rustic vale]

Theseus being in Elysium has the same implication both are crucial parts of the same story

[rustic vale]

All Poseidon did was send the Bull no?

It’s been a hot minute since I’ve brushed up on my greek myths

[brisk trail]

pretty sure the word minotaur means just that

anyway, the gun is pretty fun, zeus/poseidon build with fast shot and triple bomb
elysium rooms are still awful though, esp the ones with the archers and spear guys

[rustic vale]

Rail is really fun yeah

did you get static discharge (the jolted boon)? It helps a ton with your dps for making elysium less of a nightmare

[brisk trail]

yeah got that one plus froth for poseidon's special

[brisk trail]

got him, but man it was tough with a gun

[brisk trail]

what aspects to unlock first? I have 6 blood

[brisk trail]

looking online, it seems like the Talos, Chaos, Chiron aspects are popular
Eris seems to be like Shiva in 2, so awkward to play, especially on a controller
Nemesis is very technical, speedrunner stuff, I feel like I won't have enough time to do a special into 1-2 hit attack combo on daddy
I'll sleep on it I guess, unless you guys have some suggestions

[vast raven]

1. I wouldn't compare eris to shiva at all, as eris is just free global damage after using your special ||vs shiva where your ospec is only buffing a singular move being your oattack before needing to build up the stacks again||
2. I wouldn't say nemesis is very technical, special into attacks isnt all too bad as you can special into immediate dash strikes by kinda just mashing
3. Yes, with a fair amount of the casual player base really like chiron as it has a lock on with its special ||kinda like pan from hades 2|| the others I haven't really seen before as liked by casual players but then again I don't really keep up with that area
   In terms of meta talos, chaos, and chiron are all considered not great, eris is exceptionally good and is pretty much the best rail (aside from hestia). Nemesis is also very strong just bc of having built in crit that flows well with the standard attack rotation.

[rustic vale]

So like

[brisk trail]

I came across this reddit post hyping up Talos:

As far as early on "best bang for your Blood investment" I'd highly suggest unlocking Talos aspect for fists. The base mechanic it adds (the pull) is strong on its own, but the scaling from blood investment is low, so just unlock it and save bloods for something that actually needs them like Chiron bow.

How to use Talos:
Start with Artemis' keepsake and take her special. Then take Athena on the attack or dash, which may mean leaving the slot open in Tartarus and using Athena's keepsake in Asphodel. Assuming you have auto targetting turned on, which I highly recommend, then through most of Tartarus just look in the general direction of things and spam special. Unless it's the grabby hand guys, maybe play a little safer around those. The room clear time on this in Tartarus is unbelievable. The Quake Cutter hammer upgrade scales with your Special damage and it can crit, utterly destroying things. Other good hammers are Breaching Cross, Rolling Knuckle, and Long Knuckle. Since I always start with Artemis, then if I see Ares I'll take his cast and try for a Hunting Blades (Seeking Blade Rifts) build. That's just icing on the cake though, and the real core of the build is pulling most things in and stomping them with Special, and having Athena to help deflect on bosses.

[rustic vale]

googling information about the meta for Hades is just going to give you trash

Hades reddit is in the stone age

[brisk trail]

was Talos nerfed or something

[rustic vale]

Gaming journals have the average quality of a gaming journal

nope

they just really like the pull

[vast raven]

there hasnt been a balance patch in years 😭

[brisk trail]

the post says Talos has a great room clear, idk, it's from Sep 2020, so before the final patches I guess?

[rustic vale]

reddit is just an echo chamber so the stuff that was popular back 6 years ago is still popular now on there

[vast raven]

that is after 1.0 lol

[brisk trail]

I know man, so I'm asking here to make sure

don't want to farm too much blood

[rustic vale]

Get a level of nemesis sword, zeus shield and hera bow

those get you the default functionality for the aspect which is the biggest part for them

[brisk trail]

is Zeus better than Chaos?

[rustic vale]

and those 3 are all really solid for their weapons

by a mile

Chaos is the 4th best shield by a landslide

[vast raven]

absolutely

[brisk trail]

huh, I guess all the Chaos hype comes from EA or something

[rustic vale]

Yeah it is and then it continued on

[rotund tangle]

Aspect of Chaos is Trick Knives if it was bad

[vast raven]

early ea right?

[rotund tangle]

Now imagine if it was "your shields fly out in a fan pattern after your bullrush"

[vast raven]

i remember it was briefly meta for ea

[rustic vale]

Initially it had a more star burst pattern but like

[brisk trail]

so it just shoots out all these shields in random directions and most of them hit nothing, is that it?

[rotund tangle]

Oh also you can't attack while your shields are flying around

[rustic vale]

No it shotguns them now

but it’s so bad

[brisk trail]

you can't with the regular one either, only Zeus

[rustic vale]

even though it shotguns the shield throws in a cone, it’s not worth it compared to just only focusing on striking

[vast raven]

it'd be kinda cool if the extras got the effect from explosive return but sadly only the main one does

[brisk trail]

I like the double attack hammer on the shield, it also removes the knockback which I dislike, good for smacking things after a bullrush

[vast raven]

probably better to just say in a fan ngl

[rustic vale]

fan, cone, same thing

cone makes sense to me coming from ttrpgs

[brisk trail]

and Hestia? big shot after reloading sounds good

[vast raven]

hestia good 👍

[jagged hamlet]

Hestia requires a lot of investment, but once invested, it's quite good

[brisk trail]

what about the default ones, are any of them worth upgrading

[jagged hamlet]

I looooove the bow

[brisk trail]

still not sure which fists are the best

[vast raven]

demeter i think that one needs a fair amount of blood investment to be good tho? its been a hot minute

[jagged hamlet]

Yeah, it's Demeter

[brisk trail]

how do you use the uppercut thing anyway, what is it for, Talos replacing it with pull is probably why people like it

granted, I've only tried the fists on the skelly but just holding attack deals more damage than the special

[vast raven]

dash into special

sadly thats pretty much fists, the special doesnt do much and you're much better off spamming the attack

(unless demeter ig)

[rustic vale]

Zag bow and zag shield gain a lot of value tbh > zag rail, > zag fists, and then zag sword and zag spear don’t really need to be talked about

[rustic vale]

special is better for burst damage at the end of a dash-strike combo tbh then repeated regular use

there are a few hammers where if you miss breaching cross or long knuckle you’d pick them up

like explosive upper etc

[brisk trail]

yeah I'd imagine the hammers can change a lot

[rustic vale]

this is really best used for demeter where you get a massive burst special

every so often

[brisk trail]

so, Eris, it says the damage goes up to +75%, but the base attack is still only 10, right? or is it global and boosts boon damage as well?

[rustic vale]

global additive

[vast raven]

it's global additive yep

[brisk trail]

that's pretty neat, man I really need to unlock the origination equivalent for all the fun stuff

[rustic vale]

So it’s really strong

the what equivalent

[vast raven]

hades 2

[rustic vale]

yeah

[brisk trail]

+40% global damage when 2 curses

[rustic vale]

oh priv status

priv status is just worse than family favourites idk if H2 has that

[brisk trail]

it's called origination in H2 and does +50%

[vast raven]

sadly the equivalent isn't as good here as it is in the second

[brisk trail]

it has that but as a boon only, extended family

[vast raven]

different

thats only olympian effects vs global

[rustic vale]

Family Favourites pops off way harder because while being a little less dps overall, you don’t need to go out of your way to try to do weird things to get 2 statuses going and it applies to all your hits with no downtime from not having the debuffs applied

[brisk trail]

it seems like it's harder to apply 2 statuses in the first game, in 2 it's rather trivial so that's a free +50% dmg

they expire very quickly and you don't have binding circles

[vast raven]

||status effects are a lot easier to find in hades 2 comparative to 1 and the gods that lack a way through just their cores make up for it in some way, like only 1 god lacks a way to apply a curse through one of it's cores in h2||

[brisk trail]

ok, so take family favorites instead, good catch, almost wasted my darkness

and any other green ones worth taking?

[rustic vale]

Does Hades 2 make secondary status curse boons have priority as well

[rustic vale]

Dark Foresight and Fated Persusasion at the bottom

Counterparts to Olympian Favor and Fated Authority

persuasion is option rerolls vs authority being door rerolls

[vast raven]

wdym

[rustic vale]

Like how jolted/razor shoals have a 50% chance to take a priority slot

[vast raven]

ah

not to my knowledge/playtime do i believe that

[rustic vale]

Fiery Presence, Stubborn Defiance, High Confidence, and Stygian Soul all have solid usecases

[brisk trail]

yeah I don't think so, they can spawn once you have the main boon, but it's completely random

[rustic vale]

A lot of weapons like fiery presence to hit break-points to 1-2 shot enemies and high confidence helps that more, particularly useful for speedrunning

Stubborn Defiance is more of a high heat (read “heat”as “fear”) option because eventually the average room is worse than the bosses so you want a defiance for everything (and it eventually is your only healing form)

[brisk trail]

High Confidence is also a boon in 2, Shameless Attitude

[rustic vale]

Stygian soul is mainly for trippy flare builds for Hera or Hidden Shield

You could use trippy shot on like achilles as well but

[vast raven]

why do that when meme beam 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

[rustic vale]

If you want to play something more highroll than the conventional builds for those aspects

[brisk trail]

most of the green skills look like they make more sense for high heat or when you're really good at the game

or some quirky builds

like fiery presence

[vast raven]

equal parts of both sides ngl

[rustic vale]

Fiery Presence is more of a speed option

Than high heat

[brisk trail]

backstab is active during boss fights though

[vast raven]

purple side has some added value for heat with things like +50 max hp vs an damage bonus just so you can take more

[rustic vale]

it’s all about break-points to killing enemies in 1-2 shots instead

[rustic vale]

Boss fight damage is never the problem

at least for speedrunning

[brisk trail]

the bull and daddy still take me forever lol

[rustic vale]

You just don’t have good builds yet

I think the record is like 5s or something? I have an 11s recorded

Including the boss bubbles

[vast raven]

no fully maxxed mirror/aspects/not much build knowledge 👍

[vast raven]

5:04 for unm

[rustic vale]

5.04s for unmodded Heroes? That sounds wrong

I thought it was 5.7x

Maybe I’m misremembering

[vast raven]

oh wait i misread that as overall 💀 don't mind me im being a little silly

[brisk trail]

also, about the heroes, if you meet the bull as a mini-boss before, he only loses like 10% hp in the real fight?

[rustic vale]

I think it’s like 15% but heah

[brisk trail]

should've been half health honestly, it's so slow chipping away at him

[rustic vale]

I mean you can heal up a stupid amount by taking random fountains you find, he has a dedicated place to go home to where he can probably chug some of that

[brisk trail]

lmao I guess

the healing offers in the wells seem more common and powerful than in 2, so that's nice

like 36 g for 80 hp or something

[rustic vale]

I think it’s based off your max hp

Iirc

[brisk trail]

yeah I think so

[rustic vale]

I haven’t bothered to remember it because of how infrequently I pick them up

[brisk trail]

still though, it's not too hard to stack 250-ish hp, wonder why people told me 1 gives less health total

[rustic vale]

Zagreus is a tank

[vast raven]

it is yep

[brisk trail]

you start with 100, then pick a bunch of hearts, then take the collar for +50

[rustic vale]

You don’t even have dark foresight from the sounds of it

nor the darkness work order

foresight makes you get 7 more gold laurel rooms per run (boons/hearts/poms)

[brisk trail]

I have everything up to thick skin maxed out, except for deep pockets

[rustic vale]

darkness work order makes you gain +5 max hp when you pick up darkness, so that’s like a free +15 from the bosses alone

[brisk trail]

do they just replace the darkness/key rooms, how does it work

[rustic vale]

Deep pockets my beloved

[rustic vale]

It boosts the ratio of gold laurel rooms to blue laurel rooms which ultimately means you get 7 more gold laurels (run boosting pick-ups) and 7 less blue laurels rewards (out of run currency) each run

[vast raven]

||shoutouts to h2 equivalent just being 3x deep pockets 😭|| deep pockets so good it almost makes me forget the alt side

[brisk trail]

what's blue laurel, the darkness/key/gem rooms?

[rustic vale]

yeah

the meta currency rooms

[brisk trail]

gonna need them for a while

[rustic vale]

that’s the reason you’re never picking between darkness and a boon for example

[brisk trail]

darkness is super random, sometimes you get hundreds per run, and other times almost nothing

same goes for keys

[rustic vale]

Hundreds per run is mainly from boss drops and treasure troves, you are not getting hundreds from regular blue laurel rooms

[vast raven]

^^^ same principal/logic applies to the second game with its minor rewards even the "laurel" scheme carries over just with a slight change to the notation

[brisk trail]

also, Thanatos seems like a real build check, met him twice but couldn't win either time

whereas ||Nemesis|| in 2 is very easy to beat

[rustic vale]

I think you’re still very early in meta-progression and figuring out how to deal damage

btw you probably already came to this conclusion but if you want to beat him for the free centaur heart, just kill or knock out whatever he’s targetting with his big circles before they pop

That’s probably a better priority than going after the ones that have their hp amplified by being under his curse

[high hamlet]

I just kill the lowest hp enemies

I don’t think I’ve lost a battle to him since like, the first or second time

He gets pretty trivial pretty quickly

[stiff obsidian]

Man idk how ppl play this game without overhauling the controls

It's just impossible

I even tried changing my grip so I get my index on the x o square triangle

[high hamlet]

Yeah I had issues when I first played controller, it was honestly difficult for me

Thankfully I’m usually on keyboard and mouse, but the controller controls are just eugh for me

[dire crane]

how do i get diamonds for the court musician?

i need like 4 for my fav song

[rustic vale]

Beating Lernie with different weapons and on successively higher heats with the same weapon

The Hydra*

[dire crane]

gotcha

[manic finch]

Orpheus should lowkey play some Emerson Lake and Palmer

something like Karn Evil 9

the whole suite

[jagged hamlet]

I played on Steam Controller with back paddles

[rustic vale]

Index for the face buttons is crazy

What’s exactly the problem with default controls for you?

[brisk trail]

the default controls are fine IMO, except for the bombs on the gun, you kinda rely on auto-aim for those unless you want to hold the button and aim manually which takes precious time

[tacit ember]

me when 🎹 🐁

[high hamlet]

Same for the trippy shot (Cast+Dionysus) I just experienced that for the first time this morning (on controller)… not fun

[tacit ember]

tiem to do some hera 45 attempts

lol im finally getting the epiloge diolauge form persephone

like 430 or wahtever run sin

434

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1329437187091075162/1486069626591903884/image.png?ex=69c429b0&is=69c2d830&hm=26a93d1dcc00670f71150c7a55e6c75e2bb13171a08ae113946d9e59cd941eb2&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=972&height=749

huh i thought there was a chaos invite

wiki says stha bout nyx

ive ignored her the entire playrough lol

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1329437187091075162/1486072026409078936/image.png?ex=69c42bec&is=69c2da6c&hm=a700b5c5cbf525c6ea5bb8794db56ab17818f3a32957c6484081103c4542239d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1104&height=593

its kinda fun that she is exited to get a message

[brisk trail]

Artemis is so cute, wish you could romance her in either game

[tacit ember]

fr though

if only artemis would turm me into a moose

[jagged hamlet]

Artemis has intense girl-next-door vibes

[tacit ember]

😭

her being aloof and then opening up to you is sertainly an appealing dynamic i suppose

but its very tipical male fantacy

[jagged hamlet]

I feel like she's less aloof and more shy or reserved

Maybe even just socially awkward

[tacit ember]

i dont really think arti is that shy

dusa is the shy one

[jagged hamlet]

Yeah, you're right. I think Artemis is more socially awkward than anything

[tacit ember]

tbh the more i think about this the more i feel like artemis doesnt actually have too much depth as a character

ig nor do the other gods nessisarily

everyone has like one whole personality trait

hmmaybe seastrom applies to that rama push hammer

idk how this was the hammer they came up with for rama bruh

[tacit ember]

bruh i hate the sutpid thromp boss

[tacit ember]

lol got offered and denied deadly reversal, rerolled denied again

[tacit ember]

tbh i was expecting a massive adrenalin dump after the hades fight but it was quite chill

i think i will try hestia 45 next

[iron chasm]

I hate dusa

[brisk trail]

Dusa is straight up an anime trope lol

[tacit ember]

So is arti

[iron chasm]

yeah but arti is better

doesnt have that annoying voice

[granite musk]

so... what?

it's not a bad trope

beside, it actually does something interesting if you go through her whole story

[brisk trail]

is there an upgrade that makes keepsakes level up faster, like in 2?

[latent moon]

nope lmao

the only "hack" would be to go through every styx tunnel with a keepsake bc each chamber, even the tiny ones, count for progress

[brisk trail]

you're gonna need like 200 runs then sheesh

[latent moon]

yeah you'll need a lot but prob not that much

styx helps a lot

and you should've already gotten decent progress on a handful before you started going for that achievement tbf

[brisk trail]

an average run is like 54 chambers, though idk how many encounters is that

[latent moon]

54 is if you only go down 2 styx tunnels

[brisk trail]

I always stop when I get the sack because why risk it

[latent moon]

i mean if you run it at 0 heat you should be fine

i'm sure you're a good enough player to clear consistently with 0 heat

[brisk trail]

last run I got a series of rooms which are all basically broom closets and you fight big rats in those, ugh

[latent moon]

tart max encounters is 13
aspho 7
ely 9
styx variable but prob like 8-20 or something

[brisk trail]

I guess you're meant to have a good cast for those rooms

[latent moon]

this is assuming you never take any shops or story rooms

[latent moon]

any sort of decent aoe generally works

most effective is tidal dash

[brisk trail]

so if a keepsake expired for the run, does holding on to it still level it

[latent moon]

breaking wave and/or typhons fury with tdash or poseidon's cast deletes styx tho

[latent moon]

yeah

[brisk trail]

man, in 2 it's so easy with that incantation, it slashes the encounters needed in half, I believe

[latent moon]

something like that iirc

tbf the devs prob realized how slow it was in 1 and implemented that in 2

so like they do listen to feedback lmfao

[brisk trail]

oh since you're online, can you explain the Zeus shield hype? it's slow and I guess you can perma-turtle, is that it? the damage seems like meh, should I really bother unlocking/upgrading it

[latent moon]

the easy solution without actually explaining how it works is the fact that it beat 64 heat lmao

[brisk trail]

it is safe, yes

[latent moon]

the longer answer is the fact that it's less about turtling and the fact that it deals consistent high-ish damage while staying safe

[brisk trail]

yeah you throw the shield and continue blocking

[latent moon]

you have iframes while you bullrush, and comboing that with the explosive return hammer with good timed catches/bull rushes deals a lot of aoe damage while maintaining safety

you dont really turtle while playing zeus shield, it's a lot of bull rushing and catching your shield at the same time

it's easy to half ass and do decent, but very difficult to play extremely well at a high level

[brisk trail]

I looked at the leaderboards on speedrun.com and the shield clears are all beowulf, so I'm not sure why I got recommended Zeus here the other day

maybe it's just for safe clears

[latent moon]

zeus isn't about speed, it's consistent and safe

beowulf is the speed aspect

[lavish sorrel]

Heat community sheet tells a different story

[latent moon]

aspects good for speed don't always translate to being good for heat

and vice versa

zeus is kinda dogwater for speed, but the best for heat

[lavish sorrel]

(Though there is a correlation, an aspect needs to be able to go fast to be good at heat)

[latent moon]

yeah generally

[brisk trail]

50 heat shield clears are also beowulf

[latent moon]

50 heat speed leaderboard is just anyheat but more ouchy

[lavish sorrel]

The SHEET, not SRC

[brisk trail]

idk what's that

[latent moon]

the sheet is an unofficial-official google sheet that tracks high heat clears from players if they submit their runs

[brisk trail]

is it under the pins here or something

[lavish sorrel]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=drivesdk

[latent moon]

i think it's pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies iirc

[brisk trail]

huh, there's a Guan Yu clear, isn't that a terrible aspect

[latent moon]

it's good in the right hands

[lavish sorrel]

Hard aspect, but very safe

You effectively will not come to harm by any deflectable attacks

[latent moon]

it's safe if you use it right, unlike zeus shield where it's safe if you vaguely use it right lmfao

[brisk trail]

with Zeus you can just stand next to a wall and block, but it's pretty lame

[latent moon]

you're also not obligated to do that

if you watch any high heat clear with zeus shield, they don't really do that