h1-discussion

[latent moon]

Would be funny

[rustic vale]

Concentrated eternal chamber

flurry world splitter

[stone rune]

flurry arthur

[rustic vale]

flurry arthur losing literally everything special about it

[stone rune]

actually it still has that

[rustic vale]

Your attack combo and dash strike are just replaced by flurry

[stone rune]

losing literally everything what about it?

[rustic vale]

Ok ok it still has the special and the extra hp but you lose your funny big slash and dstrike for something abysmal

[stone rune]

oh right flurry sets base damage

[latent moon]

Flurry rama sucks

[rustic vale]

Flurry rama does suck

So would arthur

[latent moon]

But conc volley with epic swift flourish is very strong

[rustic vale]

Conc relentless volley rama

Charged volley chiron

[dire tendon]

hm rama is interesting

i lost to time since i kind of had no boons in elysium

but interesting

[latent moon]

How'd that happen lmao

[dire tendon]

the attack is incredibly slow to charge but hits like a truck

idk

i went out of asphodel with 3 mins remaining

but then did 0 damage whatsoever

[latent moon]

Rip

What'd you have on atk

[dire tendon]

....nothing until 2 chambers left on elysium

which explains a lot

[latent moon]

Yeah lmao

What was your god pool then because that's pretty wack

[dire tendon]

uhhh

i had aph athena dio demeter

i prolly should have put aph or athena attack on but i was just messing around for most of the run

[latent moon]

Lmao fair enough

[vernal field]

anyone know how to unlock the administrative chamber, like the actual requirements

[native blade]

Do you have to do something? Is it in work orders or do you just wait?

[vernal field]

you're supposed to have a dream of it first, not sure what triggers the dream

[latent moon]

Just doing more runs I think

[native blade]

Go to sleeeeeeep

[latent moon]

Like it happens naturally after a bit

[native blade]

GO TO SLEEEEEEEEP!!!

[vernal field]

anyone know how to unlock the administrative chamber, like the actual requirements

[vernal field]

i cant 😦

[latent moon]

Just do more runs, the option will come up at some point

[native blade]

You gotta interact with bed when it pops up.

[vernal field]

anyone know how to unlock the administrative chamber, like the actual requirements

[latent moon]

Have you looked it up on the wiki yet

[vernal field]

I appreciate ya'll trying to help, but I'm trying to figure out the actual requirements

[solar vault]

I have gone and looked it up in the wiki

[vernal field]

I can't seem tofind any answers online

[solar vault]

• Complete 27 escape attempts
• Play through Administrative Chamber Flashback

[vernal field]

can you link that I couldnt find it on the wiki, appreciate ya cats

[solar vault]

not sure if the 27 attempts triggers the flashback but you should just keep playing there's nothing you can do it speed it up

https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/House_Contractor#Work_Orders

[vernal field]

thanks a bunch!

[latent moon]

The answer was literally do more runs lmao

[vernal field]

lmao right ?

I just wanted to make sure it wasnt connected to nector or dialogue or someothing

[dire tendon]

hm the game just decided to erase my escape attempt after quitting out

well damn

[vernal field]

hades up to no good

[cyan jolt]

Happened like 3 tomes to me already

Sometimes the game just likes to randomly freeze so I have to quit out

[high island]

Did you Alt+F4 or select Give Up instead of Quit? Because that'll basically do that. The temp save from your run is still there, though, if you haven't started a new run yet. There are steps to recover your save in #h1-tech-fixes.

[high island]

There are some things you can try here in #h1-tech-fixes. #h1-tech-fixes message

[cyan jolt]

I already tried everything

[high island]

If that doesn't work, ask in #h1-tech-support.

[native blade]

Ok, so this is way too late but what do the spike balls in Lernie fight do lol?

[high island]

Nice part of joining during early access: any performance issues on your system that you report during early access will most likely be fixed.

[cyan jolt]

You mean those that spawn monsters?

[native blade]

Ahhhh, so that's what they do.

[slender mist]

Yee

they make Bloodless, I believe

Correct me if I'm wrong

[high island]

Yes. Bone-Rakers.

[slender mist]

Yes yes

[native blade]

I wonder if this was in the codex...

[slender mist]

[dire tendon]

nah file was corrupted or smth

[analog elbow]

If you force close the game, it will erase your run progress too
I've not heard of saves getting corrupted too often, but who knows.

[native blade]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1067050251845910568/1069726371628187690/image.png

They really just flip flopped on me lel.

[latent moon]

what aspect is this

is this still your cursed 36 pact

[native blade]

I just switched out another Ares special for this.

[latent moon]

on gilga

[native blade]

Nah, I'm waiting to upgrade my summon for that lol.

[latent moon]

fair

[native blade]

Just a casual heat 18 run.

[hollow granite]

I've done it

I bonded with every character

[latent moon]

gamer

[brisk trail]

who was your last one

[hollow granite]

The longest were demeter, hypnos, dusa, aphrodite, patroclus and achilles

In that order

Now I'd like to fill all codex entries

[stone rune]

really??

[hollow granite]

But i don't wanna do 100 runs just to get a chance to catch a voidscate or a projely

[stone rune]

aph and dusa were some of my quickest but its been like 20 runs and still no poseidon

[hollow granite]

Dusa stopped talking to me entirely after i gave her 4th ambrosia

For several runs

No "!" symbol

But now she finally makes it into featured servant board

Slay

[high island]

https://tenor.com/view/hades-game-hades-dusa-cute-adorable-gif-19139329

[hollow granite]

I also could finish erebus, styx, red onion and loyalty card entries

[brisk trail]

i wanna be a silly jolly gorgon head maid

[hollow granite]

Don't we all

If i do finish codex entries all that left is like

Buying everything from house contractor

And maxing all weapons

But it sounds soooooo grindy

And does not reward me with an achievement

[brisk trail]

the gemstone grind is hell...

[hollow granite]

Good thing is that i need only 4 ambrosias to max out all companions

I think I'll go for that

[harsh stone]

Is there any way to change initial boon/hammer of a run by quitting and/or doing smthn else?

[latent moon]

you can die to change it lol

[stone rune]

1erf

[waxen garnet]

Aside from changing the weapon or possibly choosing the hidden aspect? Death

[harsh stone]

K changing aspect might do

[latent moon]

changing aspect might change hammer options

it'll keep the ones that are compatible

and ofc changing weapons will change the hammer options entirely

[stone rune]

easiest way is to die

[latent moon]

but if it's a boon, the choices will always be the same

[harsh stone]

Yeah dying seems to be the most viable option

Thx yall

[flint ore]

does anyone know if the wave from the piercing wave daedalus hammer upgrade can crit?

I have deadly strike but not pressure points btw

[native blade]

Favourite gif.

[flint ore]

me when I encounter a mild inconvenience

[native blade]

It does I’m pretty sure.

[latent moon]

i think you need pressure points for that tho

[flint ore]

ah right

[latent moon]

unless the piercing wave gets the % modifier?

[native blade]

Really?

[latent moon]

idk

[native blade]

Huh.

[stone rune]

i'd assume not

[latent moon]

i mean just keep using it

[stone rune]

it would be like dzeus attack right?

[flint ore]

I was basically just wondering if it counts as part of the attack or a separate thing

[latent moon]

if you get a crit without pp then you'll know

[rustic vale]

Piercing wave gets global boosts but not specifically strike boosts

[latent moon]

yeah that's what i figured

[native blade]

F.

[rustic vale]

So pressure points, rd, etc will work with it

[flint ore]

I'll take it and let you guys know if I see it crit

[rustic vale]

But lightning or arte strike won’t

[flint ore]

ah ok

[brisk trail]

just get pressure points to lv 15 👉👈

[flint ore]

nah get it to level 95 and crit on every hit

[brisk trail]

hardcore

[flint ore]

god damn mirage shot/hunting blades combo is busted

just got flurry cast too, nice to know that I can just send a boss to the shadow realm now

[brisk trail]

lucky, using achilles?

[flint ore]

wdym?

[latent moon]

achilles aspect

free 150% boost to your cast

[flint ore]

nah nemesis sword

[latent moon]

oh rip

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1069677096277909545/image.png?width=1191&height=670

achilles goes hard

[high island]

Yeah, this. Need Pressure Points or Hunter's Mark.

[latent moon]

spear is such a pain to use tho i'm so bad with it

[flint ore]

I like the hades spear aspect

[latent moon]

certainly a top 24 aspect

[native blade]

So cool.

[flint ore]

it's fun i dont know what to tell you

[stone rune]

ah, this must be some newfangled definition of "fun"

[flint ore]

hades aspect + massive spin or quick spin goes hard

[stone rune]

i can never get the kids' lingo down these days

[latent moon]

big spin is funny tho i'll give you that

[brisk trail]

we believe you 🫶

[flint ore]

yeah charge it up fully then you do 150% bonus damage to basically every enemy in the room

[native blade]

Bro, bro… try flared spin.

[stone rune]

achilles???

[latent moon]

and then they die and you have to do it again :(

achilles you just spam special twice after 4 casts/atks lol

pseudo 3rd dash

also is hades boost really that much?

[flint ore]

I know achilles is good but I don't like the spear special

[latent moon]

i thought it was like 75% or something

[stone rune]

it's 60%

[latent moon]

yeah thats what i thought

[stone rune]

150% would be utterly cracked that's achilles damage

[latent moon]

spear special sucks on hades and zag spear because of the recall mechanic
with achilles, you dont want to recall the spear because you want the raging rush boost

part of the reason why achilles feels great (when done correctly) is because you dont have the weird recall thingy

[brisk trail]

punishing damage doesnt apply to spin 😔

[latent moon]

also great mobility for a "3rd dash"

[flint ore]

punishing sweep is 150% damage I just checked the wiki

if you're seeing 60% you haven't upgraded it fully

[stone rune]

oh right

why does it not scale like achilles then

[flint ore]

idk man

I think people sleep on hades aspect

[latent moon]

wait that's so scuffed lmfao

achilles starts at 50

why does hades start at 60

[flint ore]

it's not the best weapon aspect but not the worst by a long shot

[stone rune]

really man

[latent moon]

god i love how consistent this game is

[stone rune]

really dude

[latent moon]

homie about to get muted

homie got muted

[brisk trail]

[flint ore]

type it bro

[latent moon]

lmfao

Achilles:

Post-Rush Bonus Damage
(+50% / +75% / +100% / +125% / +150%)
Hades
Punishing Bonus Damage
(+30% / +60% / +90% / +120% / +150%)

okay so lvl1 isn't 60

but still

why make it inconsistent lol

also applying boosts to yourself is much faster than applying a debuff to others

[dire tendon]

does hades proc the debuff mirror

[solar vault]

No

[latent moon]

the what

[solar vault]

PS

[latent moon]

oh

yeah it doesnt

[brisk trail]

not a status curse

[dire tendon]

damn that really sucks then

[latent moon]

only god effects apply to that

doesn't include decay tho

[dire tendon]

i mean decay is an extension of frost so that makes some sense

[latent moon]

i mean hades spear sucks for other reasons lmao

same goes for gilga and talos by extension

well talos is eh

like slightly lower than neutral

i suppose

[dire tendon]

idk what either of those do i dont use fists lol

why are they bad?

[brisk trail]

can you use talos for casting

[latent moon]

talos has a magnetic cutter

so you pull them in

the special is incredibly sticky tho

kinda slow

and the best way to use it is to pull them in with the special but dash immediately so you pull without using the uppercut

and it's only a 50% debuff for cast and atk

[native blade]

If you put Pos Special it's funny tho.

[latent moon]

50% isn't bad exactly

but like, talos tends to want flat damage on the atk so youre boosting a 15 base atk hit by 50%

the cast is decent enough

blizzard shot, trippy shot, slicing shot are probably decent

gilga has other issues

[dire tendon]

but then its just worse achilles huh

and its a debuff instead of a buff

[latent moon]

Slower attacks, maim hurts more than helps most of the time, more dashes but they're shorter and have a longer cooldown

[latent moon]

yeah

worse by a large margin

it's like

poseidon sword is worse achilles

talos is worse poseidon

[flint ore]

can maim crit?

[latent moon]

yes

[dire tendon]

hm

i wish fists were better in this game

[latent moon]

with pp or deadly reversal

[native blade]

Talos is a buff btw.

[latent moon]

the game is pretty anti-melee in general

[native blade]

Rii?

[latent moon]

no it debuffs enemies

it doesn't buff you

[native blade]

Oh.

[dire tendon]

b-but you go melee on the ranged weapons!

[latent moon]

like achilles buffs you, hades debuffs enemies

[latent moon]

it's still more range than the melee weapons lol

[dire tendon]

ah well at least the melees get merciful end

[latent moon]

you dont play at max range is the only difference

you play mid to close range on the ranged weapons

like eris is a great example lol

[native blade]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1030344106666364978/1069756177069641748/image.png

[latent moon]

hover over the description

[native blade]

Am I not understanding something?

kk

[latent moon]

the enemies get like a weird purple cloud over their head

enemies with those get that bonus

[native blade]

Ah, gotcha.

That's a bad description.

[latent moon]

check hades spear

see if it says the same

[native blade]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1030344106666364978/1069756905767047288/image.png

Yep.

[stone rune]

ok so

i had this theory a while ago

talos with crush shot

and turns out it's actually pretty fun

[native blade]

That's slightly annoying but they do explain when u check tho.

[native blade]

Nice.

[latent moon]

same deal with dad call lol

everyone thinks it's useless until you read the call description when you hover over it

[latent moon]

backwards poseidon sword: you special first and then cast

[stone rune]

it is ending up like just bad pos

[latent moon]

lmfao figured

you dont get your casts back if they dont die

which can suck

[stone rune]

yeah bosses take ages

[native blade]

Would Stygian be better for it?

[latent moon]

no because then normal room clearing relies on you finding more casts lol

because you get like 1 cast in

punch them a bit

and then you can cast again

you'd rather just try to kill them with 3 immediately

you generally only take stygian for casts builds if it's trippy flare/shot centric

[high island]

Talos works best as Attack/Cast hybrid unless you do Blizzard Shot for Cast/CC.

Or just ignore Cast completely and go Merciful End.

[latent moon]

there might be a case for hunting blades? but i doubt it

[high island]

Didn't list Hunting Blades or Crystal Clarity because they just work on everything lol.

[latent moon]

lmao fair

oh yeah crystal clarity builds want stygian i forgot meme beams

[high island]

Either one works for Hunting Blades and Crystal Clarity. Stygian just has higher potential at the risk of never finding Grasp and being very sad.

Trippy Shot/Flare only really works with Stygian Soul unless you just splash it in to supplement other builds.

I suppose for Black Out on Talos, you could do Infernal Soul since that's hybrid and you want the fog up for bonus damage.

And for CC.

[latent moon]

tmw you dont find any grasps on stygian but you got 4 shot buffs so if you squint hard enough it's like 3 casts worth of damage

[high island]

lol

[latent moon]

assuming the shot buffs have at least like 1 epic or 2 rares or something idk

prob some range that makes it work

[high island]

If only that 1 Cast that does the same damage as 3 wasn't overkill for anything but bosses and minibosses.

[latent moon]

gotta make sure that rat really dies

[high island]

Killing an enemy that has 500 HP with 1500 damage, and then no more bloodstones for the other 2 enemies.

[gleaming grove]

Hera,first hammer: chain shot, tri shot, or twin shot?

[latent moon]

Triple or twin

Triple if you think you'll be utilizing the full range, twin if you plan on staying mid/close range

Hera typically wants to stay relatively close range so it can get shots off as fast as possible so twin would prob be better but it's up to you

[gleaming grove]

Perfect shot, charged volleys,or point blank shot?

[raw herald]

Both perfect and point blank are about as good as each other

[limber ether]

holy, winter harvest looks/feels so cool

[prisma wind]

It's a very fun boon

[limber ether]

"Freeze to death!"
shatters

it was the last of the legendary boons for me

[mental vale]

yeah its so hard to get though

[limber ether]

yeah, I had to dedicate 2 runs to it lol

[dire tendon]

what's yall's opinions on support fire? While it's not the most viable boon personally i think it's very fun to use on any onhit-esque build

chiron and lucifer especially

[latent moon]

Nice but never really aim to get it

[dull niche]

it’s fun seeing a bunch of green arrows everywhere

[high island]

Point-Blank doesn't require a charge (which you very often don't do on Hera to save time). Perfect Shot removes Flurry Shot from the pool.

[native blade]

Love it.

[rustic vale]

Funny but not the greatest

Wouldn’t go out of my way for it

[toxic trellis]

A fun bonus to add on a build
Can live without it, but having it certainly helps

[rustic vale]

In the same way that bronze skin certainly helps

[stone rune]

support fire hestia

[rustic falcon]

I got support fire on hestia once it was cool for a bit but then I got cluster bombs or smth so was just using special from that point on lol

[stone rune]

uh

only special?

[tall trench]

what

a door that leads directly to food?

I've never seen this before, the reward preview is just burgers and fries

[stone rune]

that happens when no other room reward can be generated

[tall trench]

makes sense then

[stone rune]

iirc it only can happen in asphodel on ff

[tall trench]

must be because I'm on a fresh file 3 blue laurel room

exactly lol

[latent moon]

yeah that's exactly it

the only blue laurel rewards you can be offered are darkness and keys

[latent moon]

you'd be surprised at how many newer players do that with rail lmao

[stone rune]

wait so

with stubborn roots

can you reset your sd and then heal back up to full?

so long as there's an enemy left

[native blade]

Oh, yeah

[latent moon]

yeah if you felt like running around in circles and taking a ton of time lmao

[brisk trail]

wait shooting shades with lucifer destroys them?

do any other weapons or aspects do that?

[stone rune]

attacking shades destroys them

[brisk trail]

huh. that's a neat touch honestly. i feel kinda bad about it though.

[raw herald]

It’s second hammer

[amber veldt]

any tips for hades second phase?

[lone sable]

Weapon/aspect?

One tip i can give is when he does the spin then try to dash behind him

If you're right next to him tho

[tired karma]

When he uses lasers go for a kiss/hug to ignore them

[lone sable]

I wouldnt rely on that doesnt feel consistent

Hiding is easier

And significantly safer because if you slightly mess it up that's not a death defiance worth

Also if your weapon has good range i recommend trying to remove the pots when you cant do damage

[tired karma]

You can mess up the positioning behind the pillars too
Especially if there are hands there

[lone sable]

Yeah but messing up is more forgiving for hiding

+the lasers take a year to come out so you have time to wait for the hands

[high island]

It's consistent and free damage. If you're worried about positioning, just use a call for i-frames when you move to him.

[high island]

Collection of messages I've written about the fight: https://docs.google.com/document/d/137Vqe-8fvStMJ_HMlBKWwq3SVdoOED0lOpBBSmgGwtQ/edit

[amber veldt]

thanks

[lone sable]

Depending on the weapon you can get free damage with hiding as well

[solar vault]

...You can? I can't think of anything except zeus shield that lets you

[lone sable]

Chiron bow if you can hit hades once before hiding

Lucifer rail

Actually any rail

[tired karma]

Who is the best male hades character for you

[lone sable]

Asterius

[calm saddle]

what to do after beating hades 10 times?

how do you get the epilogue ending?

[tired karma]

Beat hades 100 times

[calm saddle]

wait fr?

assuming if each attempt takes 30mins

that's like 3000 minutes

i ain't doing allat

💀

[tired karma]

You need to max out 5-6 gods with ambrosia
So it will take a while

Runs become faster each time

[calm saddle]

oh so i don't need to beat 100 times?

[tired karma]

You can even do below 10 minutes runs

[raw herald]

Under 5 mins too

[calm saddle]

how much ambrosia does one god need?

my best is 13 minutes only cause hades didn't fight me

😭

[raw herald]

The timer keeps going through the cutscene iirc

[tired karma]

No
You can even get the epilogue fast by dying over and over after giving gods nectars

Select specific god keepsake
Give nectar
Die
Repeat

[calm saddle]

and im assuming 3 ambroshia per god?

ambrosia*

[tired karma]

Don't remember
Something around 1-3

[sour fog]

at least 4 if I recall correctly

including the first one

you need 4 hearts to count the god

oh

ambrosia

never mind

[calm saddle]

ok

thanks

[calm saddle]

is there anyway to make it so

whenever you tab out of hades

the game still palys

[sour fog]

I tried many times, unsuccessfully

tried all combinations of windowed/fullscreen/borderless and just didn't work, the game always freezes until you focus back in

[tired karma]

Tried to play it on controller
Can't you start the escape after playing around with heat?
Do you really need to close the menu and then hit escape while not doing anything with heat settings?

[calm saddle]

i've given all the nectar to ares, he has that heart with the keyhole inside it in the codex but it's not giving me the option to gift ambrosia yet

[calm saddle]

hmm ok

[dire tendon]

Hm when I’m playing Hera, should I prio mirage or snow burst assuming I have like, only crush shot and deadly strike going into asphodel?

I usually try and force mirage but not sure if the room clear suffers too much from not having burst

[flat bloom]

snow burst

probably

i always prio snow burst

[lone sable]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813786763859591218/1069972519026688051/image.png

going for charon was a bad idea

[silent willow]

Finally did skelly's last challenge

jumped straight from 16 to 32 and surprisingly it only took 4 tries

at first I tried eris but the winning run was with beo

[lone sable]

i just like the spearpoint

[silent willow]

super proud

[lone sable]

and i know that if i wanna switch mid-run im gonna forget to switch it back

[silent willow]

starting with a god keepsake gives you way more build control

[silent willow]

touch of styx from patroclus carried me

[tired karma]

And beo

[lone sable]

i like unpredictibility

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813786763859591218/1069977230626803832/image.png

and i think im also dead

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813786763859591218/1069977960045621380/image.png

nevermind

[analog elbow]

What a gamer

[rustic falcon]

nice

now beat hades

[stone sigil]

what gods go well with lucifer? zues? aphro

also dont really get how im supposed to use the bombs

[lone sable]

didnt have em 4 so i was fine

[lone sable]

how i use them is just place them where the enemy is/is going to be and then blow it up

[rustic vale]

Explode them as soon as they touch doen

[rustic vale]

Yeah, zeus on strike, aphro on special

Triple bomb if you find it

[analog elbow]

@livid swift You need to up the heat via the pact to earn more bounties: blood, diamonds, and ambrosia

[livid swift]

What
Do I have to beat the game first

[analog elbow]

Yes

Or clear the first boss with a diff wep

[rustic vale]

You have to escape first yeah

[rustic falcon]

can you always find a titan blood at the Styx from chiron shop or is it one time purchase

[latent moon]

It's a 50/50

Between the blood and a diamond

But one of those will always appear

[rustic falcon]

I see so another good way to get titan blood other than heat

struggling with higher heat rn

[latent moon]

Might be a build and/or pact issue

[rustic vale]

Or just mechanical skill as well

[silver mica]

I don't think I've properly used kinetic launcher before

Is it alright with demeter aspect?

Or should I go concentrated onuckle since I got swift strike

[raw herald]

Kinetic is better

It’s solid damage and looks cool

[silver mica]

Alrighty

Ty

I might not get the chance to use it though

I'm literally on 8hp

Okay I got health now lmfao

Oh pat gave me defiances

Cheers

[tiny pebble]

i got hades today

[silver mica]

Yesss

Awesome

[tiny pebble]

i like the spear

[wild dagger]

with artemis and poseidon i can get the double cast thing right ?

if i dont get it on first try if i rerol is there any chance i get a duo boon ?

or only other rarities ?

[latent moon]

if you reroll you can get the duo yes

[latent moon]

as long as you meet the prereqs yes

[wild dagger]

oh wait i dont have a core for poseidon

guess ill take the dash since that's the only one i can

then ill get it the next one

is the zeus cast considered a lighting bolt ?

[latent moon]

it's chain lightning

kinda like how zeus strike works

[wild dagger]

took the 30% for lighting to strike twice

does it work with zeus call i wonder

[latent moon]

yes

it doesnt work with lightning strike and zeus cast because those dont shoot down lightning bolts

it'll work with zeus call and zeus special tho

also double strike is bugged so the actual double strike % is much higher than it shows lol

[wild dagger]

oh poggers lmao

[mint coral]

Double strike my beloved

[raw herald]

Only bugged for vengeance sea storm special and flare

Not call

[brisk trail]

zeus op

[wild dagger]

i need poseidonnn

this is the last chamber before surface

i hope i get him on surface

yeaaassss

[latent moon]

oh not call?

wack

[wild dagger]

now i hope i get the duo boon

fail

[fringe garnet]

Supergiant made one big mistake with Hades

And that was not giving unique Hypnos dialogue if Cerberus kills you on EM4

[mint coral]

Makes sense considering you die to [redacted] tho

[stone rune]

redacted.ch

[tired karma]

Who even dies to him though
You can see him run from a mile away

It would be cooler if we had EM5
And EM4 was us actually fighting Cerberus in Styx

[wild dagger]

i wish i could beat the dog

thats what she said not me

[tired karma]

With enemies from all 5 rooms at the same time
Like the vermin

[wild dagger]

i would wish for no harm on the dog

[silver mica]

Blizzard shot and mirage shot is soo cool what the heck

[tiny pebble]

hi

[silver mica]

How have I not tried this before

Hello

[tiny pebble]

@silver mica nice pfp

[silver mica]

Thanks

Its a matching one

Deadpool and spiderman

[tiny pebble]

oh cool

[silver mica]

:D

[short plaza]

when i try to play with the sword it just feels weak and not worth it to be close to the enemies is the sword just bad or am i playing it wrong?

[lone sable]

Every weapon is good for different playstyles

[proper nebula]

there are some nice aspects for the sword i personally enjoy the most and had most succeed with the Poseidon aspect

[brisk trail]

falling in love with the zaggy aspects again... except for the fists

[rustic vale]

It’s probably a mix of playing it wrong and building it wrong tbh

[regal wraith]

guys is 10 min good ?
twin fist

[rustic vale]

Yes

[stone rune]

what is the "benefits package propaganda" mentioned in the hestia doc

[raw herald]

there was a short period of time where speedrunners were experimenting with BP1 in speed pacts

it allows armored enemies to spawn earlier in the biome which is a potential timesave

however the perks on average slow you down

started because someone called magnil got a 53s elysium split at 32 heat

with BP1

yeah its used in the eris route

it wasnt used in the beo route

dunno about loyalty card

[stone rune]

is there a set of the most optimal predetermined seeds that exists and is unchanging now or are people still making new ones

[raw herald]

the only thing thats predetermined at the start of a run is the c1 rewards and door

[stone rune]

for routed

like

[raw herald]

ah

[stone rune]

yeah

[raw herald]

theres always room for improvement

problem is its pretty hard to find them lol

especially ones that dont need that many manips

[stone rune]

you know i'm fond of long periods of monotony

[raw herald]

ask around in speedcord

if ur interested in getting into it

[stone rune]

im not dedicated enough though probably

[raw herald]

64 heat route uses BP2 hope this helps

[native blade]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/755677197670285312/1070078268335734845/image.png?width=1023&height=702

It ain't a big deal but it's hilarious that for the last two regions I had Chaos' egg but the one time I switch I get a chaos pool immediately.

Chaos be playing games.

[native blade]

Damn, I forgot how fun a Talos run could be. Being able suck those hopscotch bastards over lava and vacuum those rat bastards out of their poison is so convenient.

[brisk trail]

NOOOO i chanced by a fountain room doing a max lambent plume run 😭

[tiny pebble]

i died to my first boss

furthest ive gotten

[brisk trail]

the whip is very powerful

[manic pine]

DAMNN SORRY MAN 😭

That’s super unlucky

[tiny pebble]

ive noticed i get further if i just use the sword

[brisk trail]

does hellfire explode if its gets any kind of damage?

[rustic vale]

Yeah

[waxen garnet]

If Im looking for feedback on my gameplay that I recorded, where do I post the link?

[latent moon]

Prob here? Or #h1-builds-and-combat maybe

Or go to the speedrunning server and go to request review

[stone rune]

can you do vod review if it's not a speedrun

[brisk trail]

what if we replaced zagreus

with jetstream sam

[latent moon]

They can prob still help

Going fast helps with mechanical skill anyways

[waxen garnet]

https://youtu.be/cBF1rJdMvDw

Definitely not a speedrun, probably more time spent spacing out than actually playing tbh

[brisk trail]

im hot trash at the game so take what i say with like... a huge helping of salt, but constantly holding the attack button while dashing around can kill survivability, for me anyway

[manic kraken]

is eternal chamber good for lucifer super soaker

[latent moon]

I'll take a look later today

[rustic vale]

eternal chamber is just good on lucifer

[manic kraken]

k

thats fari actually

[waxen garnet]

Aye thanks. And agreed; I was being extremely lazybasnfar actual dodging and not dying went lol

[brisk trail]

sea storm on chaos shield, trolling time

[rustic vale]

Mainly because better triple bomb odds tbh

[manic kraken]

oh

i was choosing between eternal and triple lmao

oh well

[rustic vale]

Super soaker likes eternal as well though so it’s fine

[latent moon]

Oh god the video is like an hour long lmao I thought I could watch a good chunk before my class started lmao

[waxen garnet]

Lol nope Im not that fast (also was doing 30 heat with EM4 and got to the third phase of Hades)

[rustic vale]

Put it on double speed

[latent moon]

My class starts in 10 minutes

[rustic vale]

6* speed

[latent moon]

Lmfao

[rustic vale]

Advice: if you want to go fast, stop spacing out

[latent moon]

Also I have like no experience with em4 so I can't help much with the dad fight but I should be able to help a bit with everything else

A good chunk of my help might be like boon/pom choice

Some gameplay if I can recognize stuff that went wrong

Was it Dem fists?

[waxen garnet]

Dont worry about it lol I appreciate the feedback whenever.

(Also any recommendations for editting would be nice because uploading an hour long video could be trimmed)

And yes: Dem-Fists

[latent moon]

Aight I'll keep that in mind when I watch it later

In like 5 hours or so probably lmao

[waxen garnet]

Lol thanks.

[high island]

Why BP2 specifically?

[high island]

What kind of feedback are you looking for? Like, what's your goal?

[waxen garnet]

Mostly on how to do better with actually playing the game: not so much boon choices (though knowing which boons would better/worse than others in a single pick might be useful) and more learning how to just play better regardless of what is handed to me.

[rustic vale]

So that they can avoid taking em5

[waxen garnet]

... ok EM5 makes me think of an enhanced version of Charon tbh

[rustic vale]

Enhanced charon fight wouldn’t be worth 5 heat unless you were forced to take it

[waxen garnet]

I mean true, but there isnt an EM5 and that's the only other boss in the game it could be applied to

[solar vault]

tiny vermin

[waxen garnet]

That doesnt count as a mid boss?

[rustic vale]

Persephone

🧠

[solar vault]

I mean tiny vermin has a health bar and the boss death animation

[waxen garnet]

That is Tartarus levelsbof villainy

[solar vault]

charon is more comparable to asterius miniboss, really

[waxen garnet]

That's fair, though Asterius does get upgraded as a miniboss with EM3

[hardy spear]

but not middle management

[waxen garnet]

Yea; which I get because youbfight him as a boss later.

[high island]

Use Gods' Pride. Use Battie. Use TD3. Start Lightning Strike or Curse of Agony on Demeter Aspect. Breaching Cross > Explosive Upper > anything else until you play much higher heat where Long Knuckle is best (mostly due to EM4). Do Dash-Special instead of standing Special for better better damage and way better recovery frames.

Rare Hunter Dash would have been best start there instead of rerolling for Deadly Flourish, since Hunter Dash also buffs the Dash-Special. But Lady Artemis is a poor start on Demeter Aspect regardless. Skipping Lady Athena on high heat is like virtually always the wrong choice but especially on melee where you really want Divine Dash.

Don't skip mid-shop for pom when you have money and your only pommable is Pressure Points. Use summon immediately for Doomstone to break armor to speed things up unless you have Breaching Cross. ...now you skip the pom on Lightning Strike where you'd really want it because your damage has been poor and virtually all you have at this point is rare Lv.1 Lightning Strike.

Either actually use your Casts in combat for Boiling Blood or on enemy spawn for a free hit etc. or switch to Stygian Soul. ...skipping epic Hunter's Mark for a common Deadly Flourish. Why'd you pick up that Pressure Points when you didn't want the epic Hunter's Mark. y you hate having damage in your build.

Way more empty dashes when you move around. You take a lot of unnecessary hits because you keep holding down Attack. Although ironically when you could be holding down Attack freely, you sometimes just let go. Static Discharge is literally the #1 boon to look for when you have Lightning Strike. That's how you scale your damage. You're skipping it for Storm Lightning... You really do hate damage in your build.

Lightning Strike: does all the damage for you in the room
Taka after picking up pom: "I'll go with Deadly Flourish."

[waxen garnet]

Ok

[rustic vale]

👍👍👍

[gray apex]

Basically whAt I wanted to say

[high island]

Not rolling for Passion Dash or Aphrodite's Aid for either Heart Rend or Smoldering Air when you have Lightning Strike and Deadly Flourish.

When you know build theory, it looks like you start Lady Artemis and then try to not make it work somehow.

[waxen garnet]

Alright ... Im done. The game is good but if Im going to be treated like an idiot then no more.

[high island]

I could look into it more, but I think that already covers all the main issues tbh.

?

[hardy spear]

what

[rustic vale]

It’s valid advice

Maybe not put across in the warmest way but still

[brisk trail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586685090474491914/1070116463245021204/image.png

trolling complete

[rustic vale]

Build issues were addressed and so were mechanical play issues

[high island]

They already left.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hardy spear]

bro got some really good advice and decided to get offended

[brisk trail]

⚰️

[high island]

No use in dwelling on it.

Hopefully the text helped somebody who read it so it wasn't a waste of time.

[glad bone]

Does anyone know if Hunting Blades has a weird interaction with Pools of Purging?

I just purged my only Artemis core boon and the blades no longer seek, despite still having the duo boon.

Never mind, it's just an illusion.

[high island]

It has a weird interaction if you purge your Slicing Shot.

Or rather, it has no more interactions at all if you do that.

[rustic vale]

Hunting blades has a wierd interaction if you purge hunting blades where your blades no longer home in on enemies

[high island]

That's weird.

Hopefully they patch that.

I want to purge my duos and have them work too!

[rustic vale]

Whats the point in purging it if it doesn’t work anymore afterwards

[high island]

Right?

While we're at it, make Nourished Soul counteract LC4. Then also make it purgeable.

And make it still work after I purge it.

Thanks, Amir.

[rustic vale]

Do the same thing with bronze skin

[stone rune]

does the more empty dashes apply to all weapons

like as something you need to keep in mind

[rustic vale]

Well like yeah

If you aren’t going to hit anything don’t dash strike

[stone rune]

cause I imagine that's something more important on m1 hold builds

like flurry jab or eris or something

[high island]

Yes. Dash-Strikes that just whiff anyway only slow you down and leave you vulnerable. And you want to e.g. empty-dash behind Wringers as they attack and then press attack after their attack is done.

So that you don't end up pushing your hurtbox into their attack.

[stone rune]

yeah

[high island]

That goes for other enemies as well.

[stone rune]

I think I'd have more issue with that on something like dem or eris because I'm more mindlessly holding m1 and spamming space as opposed to more calculated or intended dashes

oh yeah also

[high island]

I see people always taking so much damage from Numbskulls, for example, because they do Attack immediately after pressing dash even when there's still a ways to go to reach the enemy.. and then they get hit by others on the way.

[stone rune]

idk if I've asked you this question before I know I've asked it before though and now I can be more specific

[high island]

Instead of doing empty-dash and only pressing attack at the end of the dash. That's not quite a full empty dash but rather delayed dash-strike. But same principle.

[stone rune]

on hestia when you're trying to dash strike every time do you want to click earlier or later in the dash generally

oh

lol

I was caught up typing

[high island]

Doesn't matter too much for Hestia tbh because your attack is so fast.

And you're only getting into range to push with Tidal Dash before your shot or to kill them off after your shot, pretty much.

[stone rune]

cool

does splash dash remain the choice for higher heats

[high island]

High heat is more commonly Heartbreak Strike or later Shackle start.

But Tidal Dash can still work.

[stone rune]

you know

i feel bad for that guy who left because this game got so much cooler when i was able to ask questions and get answers from awesome people like you

lord knows id have never cleared 32 heat without this place

thank u for your service

[latent moon]

oh bruh i was gonna give advice for them but they left lmao

[tiny pebble]

the god of wine is funny

[stone rune]

i guess i will post here too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4DIM9k_Y_w

could i get feedback on everything but particularly mechanics

[dire tendon]

i lost a run because the game just decided to stop reading my accept inputs :/

[quiet lily]

I've lost time and missed making a new personal record for it not accepting the confirm input.

Controller is not the issue.

[high island]

Move that to #h1-high-heat-strategies.

[brisk trail]

what should i put on hestia attack

[stone rune]

aph

[brisk trail]

figured lol

[rustic falcon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053528171447857182/1070190034055069717/image.png

what does this mean

alter the reward meaning do i have a choice as to what i want the next door rewards to be

[latent moon]

you dont get a choice, it's random

but it will change the door reward

[rustic falcon]

is that a good thing or a bad thing

[latent moon]

well it's not bad, but the other option is better

fated persuasion

lets you reroll boons from gods

and pom choices, although generally best to not reroll poms

[stone rune]

you mean you don't do hoarding slash every run?

[rustic falcon]

oh i dont really have fated persuassion in the thing yet

[latent moon]

it's just the other option

do you have not have the other side of the mirror unlocked or something? that happens like super early in the game

as long as you talk to nyx

[latent moon]

legit when i play sword i never go for a 2nd hammer because there's no point lmao

[woeful trout]

Are there any funny builds I can run

I don't really care about wins I just wanna run something fun

[latent moon]

you can go for a lot of gold

considering your name is Gold_Moment lol

[woeful trout]

I actually tried this last run

[rustic falcon]

that was the house contractor thing for key

[woeful trout]

Took Coin Purse and maxed out golden touch

[rustic falcon]

collecting a key gives fated authority

[woeful trout]

Golden touch doesnt seem to work for some reason

wait

It's per region?

[latent moon]

if you switch your mirror to the other side, it'll give you persuasion

yeah it's per region

[woeful trout]

I'm so dumb I thought it was per room

[latent moon]

so like

as soon as you beat a boss and enter the midroom, you should get the bonus

[woeful trout]

The room is far from mid, it's very nice to get healing and be able to switch keepsakes

[latent moon]

well like

midroom between biomes

middle-room

[rustic falcon]

oh

i think thats the last part of mirror

[woeful trout]

anyways so i went for a gold build trying to get hoarding slash

[rustic falcon]

which i dont have unlocked yet

[woeful trout]

and i did not get hoarding slash

[latent moon]

oh i see what you mean

um

did you unlock that part of the mirror but dont have the darkness to invest points in it?

because i'm pretty sure you can't get that contractor upgrade without unlocking the mirror part at least

[latent moon]

rip it do be like that

[solar vault]

I bought the key thing before mirror and by default if you don't have the mirror unlocked it just forces you into auth

[woeful trout]

maybe i should do something cast related

is there any good cast build

[stone rune]

no

no good cast build

all bad 👎

[rustic vale]

The monthly challenge this month would be moot if it was per room

[rustic vale]

Yes

[latent moon]

oh that's weird

[high island]

You can lol.

[rustic vale]

bit it’s aspect dependent as to what is good on what

[latent moon]

why would it do that lmao

[woeful trout]

whats a good build for gilgamesh

i really like it but i havent really run anything other than demeter strike with it

[latent moon]

there's 3 aspects that love casts

[high island]

If it didn't, we wouldn't get to use rerolls on RI.

So don't complain.

[latent moon]

okay yeah fair enough

wont complain

[stone rune]

me when the poseidon:

[rustic vale]

Tbf those builds aren’t good with hoarding slash unless you’re hitting like 2000+ obols

[latent moon]

oh yeah i forgot

[rustic falcon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053528171447857182/1070192407620104222/image.png

this part?

[latent moon]

ME tho

[latent moon]

just got confirmation that you dont need to have that part unlocked lol

funky

[stone rune]

wait what

dark foresight is a different group than pride and auth?

[latent moon]

merciful end

[rustic vale]

Merciful end
Doom strike -> athena special -> ME -> divine dash

[latent moon]

yea

[brisk trail]

is there anyway to decrease hestia reload time?

[latent moon]

mirror unlocks 2 at a time or something

[stone rune]

dash/special right after

to cancel

[latent moon]

isn't it just animation cancel

[stone rune]

reload anim

[woeful trout]

merciful end means i should go for gods legacy right

[stone rune]

the time no

[woeful trout]

since the entire thing hinges on one duo boon

[latent moon]

okay here's the funky thing

a lot of people say no because hermes rarity boosts damage more

and it's just 1 duo, which isn't too hard to get

[woeful trout]

wait how

extra dashes?

[latent moon]

rush delivery and more dashes

ye

[rustic falcon]

i am confused whats the upgrade for the mirror thing you talking about called

[stone rune]

oh btw did you know that ares attack starts with 50 doom and special 60, but once you get to heroic attack is 125 and special is 120

[woeful trout]

wait so how does merciful end work exactly

[latent moon]

it's at the very end
the counter part for fated authority is fated persuasion

[woeful trout]

does it make the doom go away

[latent moon]

it drops the doom immediately

[stone rune]

deflect procs doom

[woeful trout]

or does the doom just trigger again

[stone rune]

it immediately cancels the doom effect and deals the doom damage

[latent moon]

instead of having to wait 1 or 1.5 seconds, it drops it right away with a bonus 40 doom damage

[woeful trout]

so i attack dash then repeat until i run out of dashes

[latent moon]

yeah

that's ME for you

the preq isn't ddash tho

[stone rune]

haelian uploaded a funny me video today

[latent moon]

you need athena special

[stone rune]

if u wanna see it in action

[woeful trout]

and i probably wanna start with ares boon

[latent moon]

yeah

[woeful trout]

Athena special AND dash?

[latent moon]

the dash isn't a prereq

so you have to get the special

[stone rune]

no the special is the prereq but you want dash

[latent moon]

in order to actually be offered ME

[stone rune]

dash makes proc so much easier

[latent moon]

ME is so strong that the devs nerfed the prereqs for it

[stone rune]

and you can do it more times

[latent moon]

so it's harder to get

[woeful trout]

also isnt rush delivery only on bonus speed? why would it be good for gilgamesh

[latent moon]

hyper sprint

it's a prereq for rush delivery

[stone rune]

hyper delivery

[latent moon]

and since hyper sprint is a 100% damage boost

[stone rune]

up to double damager

[woeful trout]

So Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery + Extra Dashes

[stone rune]

multiplicative

[latent moon]

you can see where that goes lol

[latent moon]

well it's like

[woeful trout]

alright lets try this

[latent moon]

hyper sprint + RD or extra dashes

between hyper sprint or extra dashes when offered, i'd only take extra dashes if it's rare+

i think that's the general rule?

[brisk trail]

what besides aph on attack will make hestia busted

[woeful trout]

now watch me do all of this just to not get ME

[latent moon]

that's normal lol

oh get impending doom

[woeful trout]

isnt that just... a dud then

[stone rune]

me every time i go for heart rend

[latent moon]

eh you can still win

it'll just be sad

[molten copper]

even with ares strike + athena spc on tart, its not easy to get ME

[latent moon]

rocket bomb + cluster bomb, classic clockets
any % boost on special that isn't poseidon
tidal dash

[latent moon]

unfortunately true

[woeful trout]

oh yea unrelated but how good is hazard bomb

it sounds funny but i never take it

[latent moon]

it's really good

[stone rune]

pos special is 2nd highest isnt it

[latent moon]

it's the go-to hammer for hestia at high heat

[stone rune]

hazard bomb is cracked

[molten copper]

keeps getting offered athena DDs eventho i havent used any

[latent moon]

knockback can be screwy

[stone rune]

especially on high js

[woeful trout]

wish there was a way to reroll hammers

[latent moon]

i guess it's hestia so it doesn't really matter, but you already have tdash so it's just messy

better to have aphro/arty anyways

[molten copper]

how about dio?

[latent moon]

on rail special?

[stone rune]

lol

[latent moon]

that's probably like the worst one you can pick lol

[stone rune]

thats like the worst option

even dzeus would be better

[woeful trout]

taking -4 attack at chaos while railing

[latent moon]

based

[stone rune]

baller

just nohit so ez

[latent moon]

i thought you were gonna do ME gilga lol

[woeful trout]

i dont like duo boon based builds very much

i think i had one work out like

maybe once?

[latent moon]

ngl a lot of meta builds are like, "try and get this duo but if you don't it's not the end of the world you'll be fine" except like 2

flood beo and ME are the only exceptions

except flood beo takes legacy lol

well if you're willing to hard reset if you dont get mirage shot on beo then pride is good

[woeful trout]

please triple bomb

YOO

[latent moon]

rip no clockets

[woeful trout]

hopefully the 2nd hammer is actually bomb related

and not 3 bullet boosts

[latent moon]

i think the only ones you can get are targeting system and rocket?

can't get hazard and cluster with triple

[stone rune]

is ricochet good on non hestia aspects

[woeful trout]

i actually never used rocket before either

[latent moon]

not really because it's budget lightning strike lol

[stone rune]

ive literally never won with anything other than hestia

[woeful trout]

is it worth rerolling chaos boons

[latent moon]

basically best hammer for rail lol

[woeful trout]

i have a 24% chance for rare

[stone rune]

if you get bad curses

[latent moon]

only once

[stone rune]

like awful ones

[woeful trout]

how good is the extra boon rarity chaos boon anyways

[latent moon]

it's nice

[woeful trout]

its hard to quantify how good it is

i kinda wanna roll for even more special damage but im not sure if you can have 2 chaos boons with the same buff

[latent moon]

good for future hermes and chaos

you can

100%

the routed eris run has like

at least 10 +special damage chaos lol

okay nvm it has 6

[woeful trout]

im pretty sure this is gonna make me sound bad at the game but... pressure points isnt that good?

i just dont get it

[latent moon]

i mean it's mid

[woeful trout]

i see lots of people say its really amazing but it doesnt seem that good

[latent moon]

it's good with hunter's mark tho

because a random 4% crit will make some other enemy have like a idk at least 40% chance to get a crit on

[stone rune]

30 on unpommed grey

[latent moon]

also like, random crits are always nice as well

won't complain if a random crit makes me deal 1k damage dont mind if i do

[rustic vale]

Only good with hunters mark

[woeful trout]

Honestly Bone Hourglass should just work with every single Well item

[latent moon]

yeah should def get chaos for the next 9 rooms

[rustic vale]

Obols

And darkness

[high island]

Average Croven run?

[latent moon]

yeah

[woeful trout]

whats a croven run

[rustic vale]

Croven = top speedrunner

[latent moon]

croven is the wr runner for modded and unmodded

he has like a 5:12 unmodded and a 4:39 modded

[high island]

Croven is a gremlin.

[latent moon]

idk exactly about the unmodded time but i'm fairly certain the modded time is correct

[high island]

You could just double-check the time.

[latent moon]

also every time someone else got the wr, he snipes it back within 4 days maximum

[latent moon]

i could

[rustic vale]

if crovens a gremlin what does that make beo players

[latent moon]

i could also just not and estimate the time

[high island]

2nd place.

[latent moon]

lmfao

[woeful trout]

is 63 heat even possible

[rustic vale]

Yeah

64 heat is possible/ has been done routed as well

[woeful trout]

wait isnt 63 the max

[latent moon]

well it wont be your 63 heat pact because im assuming you're playing on normal mode

hell mode gives an extra heat

personal liability

[woeful trout]

whats hell mode

and whats personal liability

[latent moon]

that bubble you get when you get wombo comboed or take massive damage doesn't exist anymore

[stone rune]

hell mode is option when you create save

[latent moon]

yea

[stone rune]

and for some reason cannot be turned on

[latent moon]

your 63 heat pact hasn't been beat yet technically because PL wasn't what made 64 beaten lol

[woeful trout]

but 64 has been done legimately

[latent moon]

uh

yes and no?

64 was beaten routed

[stone rune]

routed moment

[woeful trout]

so someone found a seed that was really good and beat it

[latent moon]

so the player was able to guarantee room rewards and what they'd get

but it still takes insane skill to actually beat it

[woeful trout]

or just alter room rewards

[stone rune]

not found

cultivated

[latent moon]

but pretty much yeah, they found a seed that was really good, did the rng manips, and beat it

the 63 heat that was beat was modded tho
modded in the sense that it removed bad rng that would've killed the run

always epic boon to start, guaranteed first hammer choice, no barge miniboss, no bull miniboss, no tiny vermin miniboss

always 2 sack in styx

[stone rune]

epic start is allowed?

[rustic vale]

Otherwise you’re just grinding rng out

[latent moon]

well it's not submitted to src

[stone rune]

i see

[latent moon]

also if angel had a nonepic flourish at the start of the run and was 1 sec off beating 64, you can imagine how tilted she'd be lmao

[feral belfry]

Are zag fists better than Talos generally speaking?

[chrome heath]

I don't know the masters' opinion, but I'll share mine:

Talos has a slower uppercut but offers more damage, range and flexibility with cast, it's a cast-attack hybrid

Zagreus offers survivability and has natural synergy with Lambent Plume and Hermes

All in all i believe Talos is better, damage and speed wise

But i half expect to be corrected

[latent moon]

the slower upercut makes it nearly unusable

you only use it to pull and then you dash out of it to cancel the uppercut

[chrome heath]

Exactly

Cast, pull, dash atk

Kill reset