You realize it's a machine gun with a grenade launcher.
#h1-discussion
carmine cloak
silent willow
yes I do realize that, pff
it is cool in theory but I find it hard to get over the clunkiness compared to the other weapons 
carmine cloak
Also just because it's a ranged weapon doesn't mean certain rules don't apply. Dashing is the key to getting good at it.
But also, since the rate of fire is high, you want to go with flat damage.
brisk trail
How do I get the 4. option of every weapon?
silent willow
yeah I primarily use zeus attack with dash attacks on it, and eris since I wanna be close to enemies anyways since otherwise the aim assist doesn't detect anything ever 
carmine cloak
Zeus attack also adds an AoE component to the attack.
silent willow
I do know what to use with it, it's just an issue with handling the weapon itself 
carmine cloak
Well, I would not fret too much over getting the Eris effect online.
mossy tree
How do I get the 4. option of every weapon?
Through talking to various npcs while investing 5 blood into each weapon for their respective upgrades
carmine cloak
It's good if you can get in there but your run could die if you overextend.
silent willow
even here and now in the courtyard I just used 5 dash attacks, at short range, while keeping the cursor on skelly and 4 of them missed
carmine cloak
Idk I use controller.
brisk trail
Through talking to various npcs while investing 5 blood into each weapon for the...
I invested 1 blood in the normal sword and 4 blood in the second, I didn’t get 4. option, I cleared a run with the sword too
carmine cloak
You don't just magically get it.
mossy tree
I invested 1 blood in the normal sword and 4 blood in the second, I didn’t get 4...
Yeah you have to talk to certain npcs and eventually they’ll give it
carmine cloak
You eventually get it.
brisk trail
You can search up more in depth guides online
You get Arthur from Nyx but she is giving nothing to me after investing 5 blood
carmine cloak
Again, you eventually get it.
mossy tree
Dialogue rng is funny
brisk trail
Again, you *eventually* get it.
How high is the chance?
carmine cloak
It's not really a chance thing.
Just keep playing.
There's not much else we can say.
brisk trail
Just keep playing.
🙁
mossy tree
Yeah if you are feeling really impatient you can throw some runs though
brisk trail
Allright, thank you
carmine cloak
There is no shot that you'll never get it.
Like, even if you have to run her dialog pool completely dry, you will get it.
And yea boi, I beat the heroes, with zero defiance left. Pog
Unless I somehow die in styx I think I got this.
high island
How do I get the 4. option of every weapon?
Requirements for hidden aspects are pinned in #h1-story-discussion.
carmine cloak
... I'll bring skelly tooth just to be sure.
high island
You'll win unless you lose, m sure.
carmine cloak
I don't even need to win, just reach the surface.
tulip matrix
You'll win unless you lose, m sure.
But he'll win unless he loses
🤔
Crazy how that works
heavy jackal
hello guys, i was curious about the atmosphere of hades so i want to ask this: what tech level does the underworld seem to have? it both feels industrial and primal
mossy tree
hello guys, i was curious about the atmosphere of hades so i want to ask this: w...
I would say it’s not quite industrial? A lot of funny analog stuff…the most high tech thing I can think of is like the oven or chariot lol
heavy jackal
I would say it’s not quite industrial? A lot of funny analog stuff…the most high...
so like preindustrial?
mossy tree
Lmao
carmine cloak
It's clockwork.
heavy jackal
hmm
mossy tree
I think logistically they try to operate under whatever tech level should exist in Greek times but aesthetically it implements some other elements
carmine cloak
However it is deliberately unclear what time period this takes place in.
tulip matrix
Plausible honestly
It's greece for sure cause yata yata ancient greek mythology
The gears in temples can also be somewhat confirmable
carmine cloak
Regardless, the mechanisms are clockwork, doesn't have to be steam.
tulip matrix
True that
carmine cloak
The mechanisms could just be powered by manual labor. Plenty of that around.
silent willow
wow charon hits hard 
carmine cloak
Yes, but his move set is limited, and you can learn them.
carmine cloak
I'm fairly sure you can beat him in Tartarus with minimal boons.
silent willow
I got hit twice and the run ended pffff
carmine cloak
If you're going for speed, not worth it, but it's fun to then go through the rest of the run with a pile of obols and discounted prices.
carmine cloak
The more I think about it, while putting Artemis on your primary attack definitely works, it might be more effective to put one with better scaling on it and then make it critical with like a duo boon or something.
Do god keepsakes also affect duo/legendary boons?
carmine cloak
I passed on Ares twice thinking I had Athena attack but now I realize I had Athena special. Whut?
cyan jolt
Do god keepsakes also affect duo/legendary boons?
Yes
heavy sigil
The more I think about it, while putting Artemis on your primary attack definite...
what weapon
carmine cloak
Man, out of all legendary boons, Athena's is so hard to get.
vital spade
Haydeeez
rustic vale
Man, out of all legendary boons, Athena's is so hard to get.
I think fully loaded is harder
vital spade
I played this game 5 hours straight last night
I’m still not admitting the game is good tho
carmine cloak
lol there's a quirk with boons.
So I got 5 gods without using a keepsake.
I only had 3 gods locked in, and it spawned poseidon in the shop while spawning dionysus in the next room.
That makes 5 lol.
Wait, does Vicious Skewer apply to any attack?
vital spade
Wait, does Vicious Skewer apply to any attack?
I think just the special
tulip matrix
first hades attempt with 32 heat 
2 dd and 32hp,i got this no sweat
did not last long
carmine cloak
So achilles spear was a cast weapon all along.
silent willow
Gonna play my first heat today 
brisk trail
hey guys
how get Malphon?
I started playing a while ago and there are some weapons that are not showing up for me, like Malphon, how do I get him?
carmine cloak
Get other weapons first.
silent willow
I started playing a while ago and there are some weapons that are not showing up...
Get the other weapons first
The initially available ones
brisk trail
I already unlocked all the others I already had with the key
silent willow
Then do a run, you should have the option to unlock the fists
brisk trail
the sword, the shield, the spear, the bow. I already have them all, now I just need the other slots that are EMPTY
carmine cloak
The answer remains the same.
Almost nothing in this game unlocks immediately, just continue playing.
brisk trail
Then do a run, you should have the option to unlock the fists
I've done about 5 runs already, it's still not there :\
carmine cloak
Keep going.
brisk trail
Almost nothing in this game unlocks immediately, just continue playing.
ok ok
carmine cloak
Just to make sure, are you talking to everyone between runs?
carmine cloak
Then you should see new weapons eventually.
silent willow
hey so like, if I only have the first 3 bosses done on a weapon, can I increase heat to farm diamonds from hydra, or do I have to finish an escape attempt at lower heat first?
brisk trail
I hope, I've already reached the 3rd floor, it's been a long time since I unlocked the initial weapons, I thought we could get the others from a boss or something, but apparently not
silent willow
I hope, I've already reached the 3rd floor, it's been a long time since I unlock...
You need to increase heat, which is a mechanic you get access to later
carmine cloak
hey so like, if I only have the first 3 bosses done on a weapon, can I increase ...
Usually no, but if you still have to beat zero heat you can play on any nonzero heat.
silent willow
Can only get boss rewards once per weapon per heat level
brisk trail
You need to increase heat, which is a mechanic you get access to later
this is not the "aspects"?
carmine cloak
I think you're responding to the wrong query.
silent willow
Usually no, but if you still have to beat zero heat you can play on any nonzero ...
So for example - have the first 3 areas done on the sword on 0 heat, can I get a diamond from hydra on 1 heat? Or do I have to fully complete 0h on it first
brisk trail
Can only get boss rewards once per weapon per heat level
I don't know what this "heat" you're talking about
carmine cloak
Again, it doesn't work for higher heat levels, it's specifically zero heat rewards you can skip by playing any non zero heat.
brisk trail
Guys, I don't speak English, I'm putting everything in the translator, sorry for anything spoken wrong here
hahaha
carmine cloak
Don't worry about it, I think Cozie misunderstood your question.
silent willow
this is not the "aspects"?
Aspects are alternate forms of a weapon with different gimmicks that change their playstyles, which you unlock for titan blood
Heat lets you increase the difficulty via selected challenge modifiers to re-earn boss rewards
Oh oops
Yeah I did misunderstand the question PFF
I thought they meant re-getting boss drops, eepy sleepy moment
carmine cloak
That was your question wasn't it?
silent willow
Again, it doesn't work for higher heat levels, it's specifically zero heat rewar...
Alright that explains it thanks
silent willow
That was *your* question wasn't it?
Sorta! My question was a specific case about that mechanic yes
brisk trail
Aspects are alternate forms of a weapon with different gimmicks that change thei...
ahhh ok ok
carmine cloak
Once you start playing with higher heat, it doesn't matter how high you raise it, you will always get the reward of your highest uncompleted heat rank.
brisk trail
when i get back home i will show you
carmine cloak
Meaning you must beat the final boss.
silent willow
Might grab the 1 heat diamond from every weapon then, since I'm dying to 0h hades for stupid reasons pfff
carmine cloak
Nao, it is as I said, things do not always unlock immediately.
carmine cloak
Just keep playing and so long as you meet the prerequisites it will unlock.
silent willow
Had a silly nemesis blade run today which ended each bossfight in under 1 minute and pushed hades to his first invulnerability period in under 10 seconds, but I played too recklessly 
lesson learned, don't hyperaggressively whale on Hades after he spawns 3 elysian archers
brisk trail
Nao, it is as I said, things do not always unlock immediately.
ok
carmine cloak
Hades is as much a test of your damage output as it is of your ability to stay alive.
silent willow
So far it was mostly a test of knowing when not to attack, pfff
carmine cloak
There are also many attacks that are difficult to avoid.
silent willow
Most of my deaths are to being too aggressive
carmine cloak
Not being aggressive enough can also lead to problems.
Or rather, you need to deal enough damage.
During the windows in which you do decide to attack.
Unless you have some way to heal up during the battle which most of the time you won't.
Coz it's highly unlikely that you'll go entirely without being hit.
silent willow
Almost all my boons end up offensive, pfff. I only ever take defensive ones if I need it for the prophecy or the other 2 picks are stuff I don't wanna touch
Or if it's Athena, cause she gets a pass
Then again deflects are offensive enough
carmine cloak
Did you know that defensive multipliers apply independently rather than being added together?
Deflects are mostly defensive.
silent willow
Did you know that defensive multipliers apply independently rather than being ad...
Thought so, but never had enough at one time for it to matter. PFF
carmine cloak
This means that like offensive modifiers, there are diminishing returns for stacking more of them.
Of course if you add ways of avoiding damage entirely that's a different story. You can take as many of them as you want.
I remember seeing this video of Zag beating Hades just by standing there doing nothing.
brisk trail
how get Malphon?
hahahaha coincidentally just appeared
carmine cloak
Told you.
Would Stygian soul be better than Infernal Soul for Beowulf?
Actually for regular enemies I just get the gems back after killing.
Oh
The blood gem doesn't get stuck anyway.
queen gorge
I have reached new death- twin skeletons
latent moon
Would Stygian soul be better than Infernal Soul for Beowulf?
Every cast build wants to use infernal soul unless it's using trippy shot/flare or meme beams, but even meme beams can use infernal if you want
carmine cloak
Meme beams?
vital spade
Why r so many boons just like +15% attack
Honestly this game could use more interesting ones
Do u unlock new ones later? Feels like already seen them all after like 8 hours lol
carmine cloak
I'm not sure what you mean, the +attack isn't the main draw, it's the other part.
Like the doom or weak or deflect.
silent willow
Why r so many boons just like +15% attack
The boons have more effects than that, it's all written right in the boon description
spare agate
It could also be dependid on rarity to change that number
silent willow
And like... what else do you want them to change?
Adding new effects? Boons do that
Attack speed? Hermes
Different attack patterns? Hammers
vital spade
I mean a lot of them r just static damage buffs with a different graphical effect
I want more gameplay diversity and depth
carmine cloak
Nono, you're looking at it upside down.
They're special effects with a damage bonus.
vital spade
That’s a really strange argument because I am talking about the gameplay then you’re basically conceding many of the supposed gameplay depth are “special effects”
carmine cloak
....What on earth are you talking about?
Of course the special effects are what adds the depth.
Like how else would you diversify your builds?
The whole point is finding different kinds of ways to win.
vital spade
?
carmine cloak
Different boons require you to play differently.
vital spade
Calling a power “doom” vs a lightning bolt doesn’t inherently change the gameplay effect much. You can have 50 million different attacks with a different skin but they all function the same. Why so defensive? All I said is I wish the gameplay had more diversity. Yes it’s there but it could be better
carmine cloak
Lightning bolts and doom are entirely different though and interact with different systems differently.
"Why so defensive?" I don't undersand the question.
For starters, lightning bolts go well with rapid attacks, doom goes better with slow attacks. And that's before you modify them with other boons.
vital spade
Again, yes I know certain things function differently but there definitely could be more diversity and depth to the gameplay. Often it feels you’re just going through the game with +attack bonus and some basic spell, maybe a mobility thing. It could be more. That’s all
Same could be said for the level and enemy diversity. It’s fine but it can feel like doing the same over and over
carmine cloak
Have you made it to the end boss yet?
vital spade
Close and I’ve watched ppl do full runs. It’s a good game, but I don’t get why wanting more depth and diversity into it is so controversial. I’ve seen several ppl say the game starts to get pretty stale quickly on where if it had more meat that could continuously shake up the game a good deal more it would feel a little less of a grinding slog
carmine cloak
I don't understand what you're saying. Who's saying you're controversial?
cyan crown
um if u want gameplay diversity why not unlock the aspects
carmine cloak
Speaking of which I totally forgot to ask this question.
Anybody have some tips for beowulf? The bull rush is so unsafe.
raw herald
Is it?
I find that the enemy is usually dead after I bull rush 
But if you’re getting hit, take time to block before releasing, the block angle with Beowulf is huge
It’s like 210 degrees
Because it covers to the right of zagreus as well due to the way he holds it
carmine cloak
I frequently take damage during the rush.
Just lost my third defiance during a regular room. I lost like five during this run during regular rooms.
spice hare
does santa visit hades
carmine cloak
Just lost my sixth one.
brisk trail
Is Hitless TD1 significantly harder than regular Hitless or not really
I imagine hitless TD3 is way harder
But TD1 is super forgiving so idk if that would even cut into margins really
Might be like... the exact same difficulty as regular hitless
If not, possibly easier? because you don't get survival rooms
rustic vale
For starters, lightning bolts go well with rapid attacks, doom goes better with ...
Doom goes well on fast attacks
Slow attacks want +% boons instead
rustic vale
Is Hitless TD1 significantly harder than regular Hitless or not really
No
I can see td3 hitless being as difficult as td0
carmine cloak
Fast attack gain no benefit from doom tho.
Anyway I found stubborn roots, that's keeping me alive now. XD
rustic vale
Merciful end
carmine cloak
I never mentioned merciful end.
rustic vale
Generally speaking slow attacks will do far better with a +%
and the faster ones use doom and dionysus and zeus well
raw herald
If not, possibly easier? because you don't get survival rooms
Probably
carmine cloak
Hitting the enemy multiple times doesn't make doom deal more damage.
raw herald
To me TD3 Hitless is the same as TD1
ionic minnow
To me TD3 Hitless is the same as TD1
Really??
raw herald
Yeah
ionic minnow
Hitless usually takes advantage of relatively slow long range attacks I thought
rustic vale
Hitting the enemy multiple times doesn't make doom deal more damage.
Slower attackers can’t really use it to much greater effect
ionic minnow
Hitting the enemy multiple times doesn't make doom deal more damage.
Not unless you have that one thing
That one ares boon that makes it do more damage when stacked
I've gotten best use of that one on rail
Combos super well with impending doom
rustic vale
Dire misfortune isn’t amazing but it does put it work
ionic minnow
Dire misfortune isn’t amazing but it does put it work
Better with impending doom for sure, standalone I'd say C tier, with ID I'd say high B low A
rustic vale
Generally it’s better to just build for Merciful End so you can just dash strike into them and drop it immediately rather then hit multiple times
carmine cloak
Finally got Athena's legendary.
rustic vale
I got divine protection on my 40 heat run recently but then still died to heroes thanks to timer 
carmine cloak
Look my point was just talking about the status effects themselves and how you use them differently. I wasn't talking about the boons that change their behavior yet.
rustic vale
yeah the point was that they weren’t just reskins of the same thing right
high island
Got hit in styx tho
At least you didn't hit yourself and get a call from Amir, right?
carmine cloak
I don't like the whole "just use this one particular obscure boon that the game might not give you" thing. Not that I never run merciful end, but I reject the notion that it's the only way to use doom.
Although rather than putting it just on a slow attack, I'd put it on the less commonly used one.
Like if you do lightning strike on rail you can do worse than doom on special.
This is assuming you don't just have free choice.
high island
What's worse?
ionic minnow
What's worse?
Demeter special
high island
Frost Flourish is way better on rail.
ionic minnow
One-for-one, you'll get more mileage out of lightning rail doomspec than lighting rail chillspec
Dem's percents are so low that if you're building up your attack... you're better off flat doom damage
Also remember, doom poms better than demeter
Common level 1 doom isn't anything to write home about but you can get it to 200+ with 1 or 2 poms and supporting boons
high island
Curse of Pain is way worse on rail.
ionic minnow
Especially because lightning rail builds off of using attack more frequently than your special
So if your special does say 100 damage, you're better off taking the occasional 200 damage doom slap than getting a 40-80% demeter boon getting you 180 max
raw herald
I don't like the whole "just use this one particular obscure boon that the game ...
It’s not, doom on its own is pretty solid in “flat damage soup” builds
Basically when you get tidal dash and rush delivery and a bunch of flat damage sources, it’s called flat damage soup
ionic minnow
So just numberwise, if you're going lightning rail and not using triple or cluster bomb, you'd take Ares over Dem special
More damage
carmine cloak
I'm literally running through 8 defiances now XD but at least I reached the surface. I probably won't kill Hades.
high island
Have fun with Doom on your Special. 
ionic minnow
I'm not saying it's good, I'm just saying it's preferable to dem special if you're running lightning rail already
high island
I am saying you don't know what you're talking about. 
ionic minnow
In that specific situation it objectively wins numberwise
raw herald
So you’d take doom special with rocket bomb?
ionic minnow
I am saying you don't know what you're talking about. <:tizomg:45691342758831718...
Well that was rude and uncalled for
Thanks for taking a game discussion and making it personal
Super cool
carmine cloak
That said, I have two defiances going into Hades and stubborn roots.
raw herald
Problem with doom special is that the special is often used to one shot things
carmine cloak
So if nothing else I get +44% damage from blood frenzy.
raw herald
I can see a scenario where if you have a lot of global % damage, doom special is preferable over every % god though
ionic minnow
I'm not saying it's good, I'm just saying it's preferable to dem special if you'...
But yeah, that said, it's generally best to not have doom special on rail, but it's just that specific situation
ionic minnow
I can see a scenario where if you have a lot of global % damage, doom special is...
This too
raw herald
I have doom special in my sword PB and it’s not a merciful end build
ionic minnow
But tbh that's much bolder than the claim I was making
I was just talking about a specific situation with lightning rail
raw herald
I have doom special in my sword PB and it’s not a merciful end build
And it procs for over 400 damage lol
ionic minnow
See on lightning rail I'd still take aphro or Artemis special over Ares special, I'd just also take Ares special over Demeter special
Especially since you get almost 0 chill mileage since you use the special occasionally compared to your attack
And Dem's percents are.. not the greatest
raw herald
Yeah they’re kinda ehh
rustic vale
I mean did you not see what they had all said or
ionic minnow
But all I've given is numbers and data, and all you two have given is personal insults
ionic minnow
I mean did you not see what they had all said or
She just asserted it with no supporting evidence
It's fine to have that opinion
high island
I made a factual statement.
ionic minnow
But don't pass it as fact when im using actual in game numbers
raw herald
https://imgur.com/a/NW87wWJ @high island 
(Wmic is a better eris player than all of us here)
ionic minnow
I made a factual statement.
The statement that A is better than B is not a factual statement, that requires evidence to support it for it to be considered truth
When did you talk about specific numbers or damage or pom scaling
Cus I did
high island
https://imgur.com/a/NW87wWJ <@311477984886521856> <:squirtheh:456913427563282433...
It's good enough for sure.
ionic minnow
Which you refuted with straight up ad hominem. I don't think I'm some genius, I just know I'm right on this specific fact. I'm well-aware I've been wrong before.
Now, do you suppose we could keep it about the game from here? I like to be professional
ionic hemlock
The statement that A is better than B is not a factual statement, that requires ...
its not fact because subjective
not because no evidence
rustic vale
So if your special does say 100 damage, you're better off taking the occasional ...
Which special is this?
ionic hemlock
bro why u typin up a essay
ionic minnow
Great. So as I was saying, Doom special provides 60-200+ extra damage depending on pom and supporting boons, while dem gives 40-80% depending on poms alone (maybe chaos boons). On a lightning rail build, you want more damage generally, and to get more damage, you want 60-200+ added to your ~100 damage special (and that's kinda generous considering actual special rail starts at 80 doesn't it..?) Then you get much more mileage out of avg. 160 per special than like 140
There are many boons you should take instead of ares special, but demeter is not one of them for lightning rail
raw herald
I’d say it’s better if you don’t have rocket/cluster/hazard
ionic hemlock
im not reading that but if your point is rail doom is bad i agree
ionic minnow
Yes this is all assuming no triple or cluster bomb
raw herald
Problem is, the special isn’t very good without at least one of those
ionic minnow
This was clarified originally as a "lightning rail build" so I assumed attack hammers
raw herald
Oh
Yeah the only attack hammer id take on eris is delta chamber and that’s still extreme copium
rustic vale
No rail takes attack hammers over special hammmers though unless it’s an aoe attack on hestia
raw herald
Unless high heat
carmine cloak
Does Ravenous Will activate if you load your shards into your weapon?
rustic vale
No rail takes attack hammers over special hammmers though unless it’s an aoe att...
or spreadfire on zagreus
ionic minnow
Yeah the question wasn't whether ares special on rail is bad to begin with, it's GENERALLY bad - just that you would prefer ares to dem if you're doing a lightning rail build around your attack
ionic minnow
im not reading that but if your point is rail doom is bad i agree
It's definitely bad in general yep
I was describing a specific case in which it's mathematically better than a dem boon
high island
It's not even bad though.
ionic minnow
I mean, it's not great
I guess bad is vague
But generally if I wouldn't choose it I call it bad xD
People clear this game boonless so bad is very subjective indeed, I mean damn, you can make stuff like Cold Embrace work really well if you try really hard
rustic vale
It’s only better if you don’t take a special hammer which like every rail does unless it’s zag with spread fire or hestia with an aoe attack hammer
ionic minnow
But generally that's effort and I don't like that because I'm Trash God, God of Trash (Alecto gave me this title)
carmine cloak
Is Stubborn Roots bad?
ionic minnow
Is Stubborn Roots bad?
Yes and no
high island
Is Stubborn Roots bad?
Not bad per se, just extremely situational.
Better for newer players.
carmine cloak
I mean it carried me hard but that has to do with the fact that I'm bad.
ionic minnow
It's bad in that you generally never use it so it's a wasted duo, but it's good in that when you use it, you can kinda exploit it to your advantage pretty well
It's like insurance
You pay for insurance monthly and don't use it most months, but the months you use it, you're glad you have it
slim geyser
also i know im not the only one who won their first fight with it lmfao
was that a 60 minute run? Also yes
ionic minnow
Valid
slim geyser
its very situational
carmine cloak
My insurance actually makes my monthly physiotherapist visits cheaper so I'm not sure about that. XD
ionic minnow
My insurance actually makes my monthly physiotherapist visits cheaper so I'm not...
I'm 22 so using an insurance metaphor while I'm still on my parents insurance until I'm 25 was probably not smart, but I guess I meant like car accident or injury insurance lol
I haven't done insurance paperwork once in my life LOL
carmine cloak
The problem is.
I suck at using the shield charge.
I take lots and lots of damage.
And I had deflect on it too. XD
slim geyser
slicing flare (derogatory)
quiet chasm
how do I get ||hades keepsake, he's always sitting down I cant find anytime to talk to him||
slim geyser
how do I get ||hades keepsake, he's always sitting down I cant find anytime to t...
Have you got to the credits yet?
ionic minnow
(This is crap advice, DONT LISTEN) Don't use shield then when you take shield, just fish for rare or epic greatest reflex and take tidal dash, pomming it relentlessly.. THIS way you avoid using your attack, special, or cast, and kill hades with only 2 boons
quiet chasm
Have you got to the credits yet?
yup
carmine cloak
It is a bit hard to use, yes. But I couldn't think of any way to get Ares synergy without getting merciful end.
slim geyser
You should just be able to gift him while hes sitting at his desk?
quiet chasm
You should just be able to gift him while hes sitting at his desk?
can't tho
carmine cloak
You unlock Hades through conversations.
ionic minnow
(This is crap advice, DONT LISTEN) Don't use shield then when you take shield, j...
This is how you completely avoid using your weapon. I low key did this for sword until I got Arthur
raw herald
It is a bit hard to use, yes. But I couldn't think of any way to get Ares synerg...
When I use passion flare at high heats I don’t mind slapping doom on attack
slim geyser
nemesis is good though :(
slim geyser
heart rend ez
carmine cloak
What if he's bad at that?
slim geyser
True
ionic minnow
No, nemesis is better, I just hate being close to enemies and am bad at dash strike play without flurry jab
So I'm an Arthur sword main out of cope
quiet chasm
You unlock Hades through conversations.
how many nectar do I need to gift
ionic minnow
The slight extra range on Arthur is the world of difference for me
carmine cloak
how many nectar do I need to gift
Not that many.
raw herald
Skill issue
carmine cloak
A friend of mine has arthur as his second best combat style after zag fists.
quiet chasm
how much nectar do I need to gift individually for max relationships with each npc, I been saving up I have like 35
raw herald
Distant memory
ionic minnow
My reaction time does
rustic vale
Dstrike as many times as you have dashes and special
ionic minnow
The reach on that sword is HUGE
Exactly friend
slim geyser
The slight extra range on Arthur is the world of difference for me
have you considered hera
slim geyser
hera best wep 🙏🙏🙏
rustic vale
FO2 is fun because it makes you faster 
slim geyser
i have come out of my pos sword days to embrace the light of hera
quiet chasm
I dont like arthur cuz it's slow
carmine cloak
If you put athena on attack you can also just swipe it to guard against pretty much anything lol.
raw herald
Ping pong
ionic minnow
I was talking about swords xD hera is really good but I find Rama really really fun.. I am well aware this contradicts what I said about complexity
I just love the whole damage network thing
And getting dio boon on Rama special
But yeah, Hera is probably better unless you're a megabrain gigagamer
slim geyser
i got the most hera build ever the other day so now im fond ofit
carmine cloak
Anyway, what is the connection between me taking slicing flare and taking lots of damage?
ionic minnow
Doesn't slicing flare start where you dash FROM
carmine cloak
No.
ionic minnow
Oh whats the one that does it where you're from and it's stupid
carmine cloak
It starts where you end and then goes forward 3 feet or so.
raw herald
Anyway, what is the connection between me taking slicing flare and taking lots o...
Slicing flare def sucks, you might also just not be used to beowulf
carmine cloak
Well as I said I'm bad at using the bull rush.
slim geyser
Yeah
carmine cloak
I just take lots of damage at the end of the dash.
raw herald
Ew 3 cast loader
carmine cloak
They weren't dead tho, instead they just hit me.
carmine cloak
I didn't know how to integrate Ares without getting merciful end.
ionic minnow
Trippy flare is good too if you don't like exploiting the mirage shot bug
raw herald
Slicing is bottom 2 flares, and the gab between second worst and third worst is huge
slim geyser
Just take like his revenge or smth
raw herald
Why do you want to integrate ares?
carmine cloak
But then I can't get duos with other gods either.
slim geyser
well you dont need them
ionic minnow
Is vengeful mood good?
raw herald
It’s not really that good imo
slim geyser
really if you just get mirage shot on beo youre fine
raw herald
The only time it’s optimal is in a revenge build which in itself is a meme
carmine cloak
I don't know what duo boons there even are let alone which ones are bad or not.
I just wanted options.
slim geyser
Fair enough
rustic vale
I didn't know how to integrate Ares without getting merciful end.
Hunting blades
carmine cloak
But I didn't want merciful end diluting the pool.
slim geyser
can uou eve get that on beo
rustic vale
Or take curse of vengeance for curse of nausea
carmine cloak
I was fishing for divine protection.
rustic vale
Wait this is about beo
rustic vale
Hunting blades
Bo
raw herald
Bo
carmine cloak
I still got two other athena duos now that I think about it. Me getting divine protection on top was just a damn miracle.
Now for aphro legendary and that completes the List.
rustic vale
Yeah ares doesn’t really help beowulf
carmine cloak
I didn't have much choice.
raw herald
URGE TO KILL
carmine cloak
Oh blood frenzy definitely helped tho
quiet chasm
pos sword build?
carmine cloak
I think it took me 8 runs of fishing to get divine protection.
high island
pos sword build?
Phalanx Shot > any core from Lord Zeus > Lightning Phalanx
Poms on Cast.
quiet chasm
Phalanx Shot > any core from Lord Zeus > Lightning Phalanx
oh so the dmg from the sword doesnt actually matter?
carmine cloak
Oh I did a run like that earlier today but with achilles.
If you play poseidon or any other cast weapon it's all about the cast.
quiet chasm
alright
high island
oh so the dmg from the sword doesnt actually matter?
Ideally not.
quiet chasm
Ideally not.
so I guess I start with athena, then zeus
high island
Yep.
carmine cloak
I thought lightning phalanx would be a neat idea since I was fishing for divine protection anyway but is it actually a high tier build?
high island
For any other general tips for Cast builds, I wrote a guide here: #h1-builds-and-combat message
rustic vale
Phalanx Shot > any core from Lord Zeus > Lightning Phalanx
Preferably strike or call from zeus, right?
Want to avoid zeus dash on pos because of dash bug
quiet chasm
For any other general tips for Cast builds, I wrote a guide here: https://discor...
divine attack, flourish, or dash
flourish being epic
rest being normal
rustic vale
Damn you really got the 1/4 chance to not see it
high island
divine attack, flourish, or dash
Reroll lol.
high island
Flourish and Dash are both good.
quiet chasm
which one
carmine cloak
If you already have a source of move speed, is it a valid strategy to run plume just for a shot at rush delivery and then removing the plume later?
high island
Follow your heart!
raw herald
Flourish
raw herald
Well you can’t reroll
raw herald
Anyway divine flourish is good on sword
quiet chasm
I use infernal soul right
raw herald
Ye
rustic vale
That's my point.
The prerequisites for rd are the things giving you movespeed
carmine cloak
There are non-Hermes sources of move speed.
They're rare but they exist.
Zag sword.
rustic vale
Swind isn’t a prerequisite
rustic vale
Zag sword.
Either way rd without hypersprint is sad
carmine cloak
There's also a Hermes boon that gives speed but isn't a prereq.
rustic vale
Oh man I sure do love my +7.5% damage thanks to rd on zag sword
carmine cloak
Even with just 20% move speed that's 10% global.
rustic vale
There's also a Hermes boon that gives speed but isn't a prereq.
Swind
high island
Second Wind
carmine cloak
7.5% global isn't that bad is it?
carmine cloak
Lots of other globals are in the 10-20% range.
rustic vale
It’s not worth the keepsake
carmine cloak
Compared to what?
rustic vale
without like hypersprint which is already a prerequisite
raw herald
Lots of other globals are in the 10-20% range.
They aren’t very good tho
If your Hermes adds less than a rare rav will, it sucks
rustic vale
achilles and global in same sentence 
high island
Good globals are good? Are you sure.
carmine cloak
I'm not really reading an ultimate argument against.
rustic vale
It’s not worth the plume
carmine cloak
Like what other keepsake would I even choose?
high island
If you're not sure, then who are you? And who is sure?
rustic vale
god keepsake or defensive keepsake
carmine cloak
For Asphodel?
raw herald
Like what other keepsake would I even choose?
What’s the build so far
rustic vale
For Asphodel?
God keepsake
high island
God keepsake, Coin Purse, Hourglass.
raw herald
On beo if I have my full build by the end of tart then I usually take hourglass or coin purse depending on well contents
I don’t take plume on beo
rustic vale
What if I already have all the gods I want?
God keepsake anyways for the god you prioritise the most out of them, or hourglass or defensive keepsake
carmine cloak
Can take coin purse in elysium as well can't I?
rustic vale
Not really a reason to
raw herald
Yeah but if you use it in aphro you won’t get the money again
carmine cloak
No I mean there's no rush to use the coin purse in aspho.
high island
Can make quite the difference.
raw herald
Hourglass can make your build literally insane
carmine cloak
It's not maxed yet anyway.
silent willow
My Asphodel keepsakes involve me just taking the keepsakes I need to take to finish the prophecy 
...or more often a god keepsake
carmine cloak
Like "if you make these exact choices, and make these exact choices every time while never deviating from them ever, you will win every time", sure, I can't really argue against that.
Doesn't sound particularly fun tho.
silent willow
tbf this game doesn't really let you take the exact same choices every time does it now
carmine cloak
Doesn't it? Tell that to "just take merciful end".
raw herald
Eh
high island
Well, we were talking about what's more effective, not what's more fun, because you asked about the effectiveness of taking Lambent Plume.
It's a valid tactic, you can literally run boonless mirrorless and win consistently. But there are stronger choices.
carmine cloak
When you put it that way, I can see that.
On the other hand, guess I can do worse than a full plume run with zag sword.
high island
Lambent Plume for Rush Delivery is a fringe tactic that never really got popular. What's a little more effective is Lambent Plume for Bad News if you run Stygian Soul.
raw herald
That isn’t true
high island
What's not true?
carmine cloak
This is separate from a full plume run right?
raw herald
This is separate from a full plume run right?
Yeah
high island
I wouldn't call it popular, but I guess that's subjective.
raw herald
Wmic takes plume over Artemis if he has tidal dash already
Well, it’s popular among top eris players
carmine cloak
Where does the Eris runner get their move speed from?
raw herald
Hyper sprint
cyan jolt
And icors
raw herald
The idea of plume is that it gives more opportunities to see rush delivery
carmine cloak
Oh so you can hope for hyper sprint later if you see it early.
raw herald
And if you get epic rd + hyper sprint, it’s worth keeping the plume on for ~30% constant damage towards the end of the run
brisk trail
The idea of plume is that you can use it to get the haste of hermes achievement and that's it
(/s)
cyan jolt
Does rush delivery buff all damage
cyan jolt
Like everthint
carmine cloak
I think plume runs are cool, especially with zag fists.
raw herald
Well not everything
It doesn’t buff summons or traps
But everything that zag does, it buffs
carmine cloak
Revenge build with zag fists and plume XD
raw herald
It probably wants dad call
cyan jolt
Does the maim blast get buffed from boons?
Or the Lucifer blast
Oh really
Can it crit
rustic vale
Does the maim blast get buffed from boons?
Not from special specific boons
cyan jolt
Not from special specific boons
Aww
frank torrent
what's a good setup for 10 heat?
cyan jolt
Probably would be too op with aphro or Artemis then
cyan jolt
what's a good setup for 10 heat?
Forced overtime and em3
old dawn
also plume rng dodges
rustic vale
Forced overtime and em3
Fo2 em2 td1
frank torrent
Fo2 em2 td1
that looks good actually, thanks
old dawn
what's a good setup for 10 heat?
em3 td2 + any 1 pointer
cyan jolt
Fo2 is pain
rustic vale
Fo2 is speed
old dawn
fo2 is a bit to get used to
high island
We used to have an Eris main who casually streaked 50 Heat with Ruthless Reflex and Lambent Plume and EM4.
rustic vale
that looks good actually, thanks
I was joking
Fo2 is quite difficult if you aren’t used to it
frank torrent
i've gotten 2 wins with it, doesn't seem too difficult
old dawn
but its essentially free
frank torrent
and my hammer options are relentless, concentrated, and charged volley
high island
The idea was just getting broken amounts of dodge chance.
frank torrent
on a hera build
high island
And Eris DPS was enough for the timer to not be a problem.
cyan jolt
I think I've only escaped once or twice since I took it
raw herald
We used to have an Eris main who casually streaked 50 Heat with Ruthless Reflex ...
Bruh
was that iris bunny?
cyan jolt
I'm too worried about tight deadline so I just forget to dodge
rustic vale
Ever since I took forced overtime my clearrate went down
You need to get used to it first
rustic vale
I'm too worried about tight deadline so I just forget to dodge
Dashing tends to make you clear faster
high island
was that iris bunny?
Oh yeah, I think that was the name. I asked @vast junco before, but we both couldn't remember the name.
cyan jolt
Dashing tends to make you clear faster
Wow pro tips
raw herald
Every single run had like 4 chaos boons and some of the earlier ones were literally no damage taken except the chaos initial damage
rustic vale
Wow pro tips
Most of the time dash strikes are a weapons main source of dps, and dashing to the end of a chamber etcetera etcetera
high island
Wasn't that somebody else?
cyan jolt
Also I have never taken off EM2 since I first took it but I'm still not used to it
raw herald
I think the final straw was when one of their run clear messages was the one for having like 70 gyros
high island
It was awhile ago, could have been them lol.
raw herald
Wasn't that somebody else?
No it was definitely iris bunny
cyan jolt
Most of the time dash strikes are a weapons main source of dps, and dashing to t...
Does the damage stack if you take Artemis dash and aprho on attack
rustic vale
Also I have never taken off EM2 since I first took it but I'm still not used to ...
Just do a few runs with just fo2 em2 by itself to get used to it before putting on more heat then
rustic vale
Does the damage stack if you take Artemis dash and aprho on attack
Yes
raw herald
One literally had 580 health with 5 columns 💀
rustic vale
One literally had 580 health with 5 columns 💀
high island
Anyway, I think the strat can work just fine.
rustic vale
And how does damage bonus work
It’s additive aside from crits
cyan jolt
But what goes first
rustic vale
no
The +%’s add together
Like a +60% to dstrikes from chaos and +70% from hunter dash ends up being +130%
high island
Well, Iris Bunny never submitted anything to the leaderboards anyway, so doesn't really matter if they were cheating themselves or not.
cyan jolt
Does anyone have any tips for em3 + forced overtime
rustic vale
I technically cheat all the time by quitting runs to do something else
cyan jolt
Because asterius is harder than Hades at that point
rustic vale
Does anyone have any tips for em3 + forced overtime
Avoid being close to asterius when he is beyblading
rustic vale
How do I dodge that attack where he charges at you
Dash and run
cyan jolt
He outruns my dashes
high island
(1) get close to an obstacle (like the wall) and empty-dash away at the last moment, so he'll crash into it trying to turn away; or (2) get between two obstacles (like the pillars) and empty-dash through Asterius at the last moment, so he'll crash into one of them trying to turn around.
Theseus also counts as an obstacle.
cyan jolt
What's empty dashing?
cyan jolt
Yes you pee
raw herald
What's empty dashing?
Dashing without dash striking
rustic vale
Zag Sword, Plume, Rush Delivery, Hyper Sprint.
Just need like 8 ichors now
brisk trail
Wooo
Achievement for getting 30% on butterfly. Almost didn't get it but then got it in Styx
Miniboss styx encounters are actually easier to get hitless in than the regular ones lol
Helped having Battie too
cyan jolt
I hate the poison in styx
brisk trail
Used a special zeus shield technique in order to nohit a lot of the stuff
You can use a blitz disc and bull rush in a way that makes it almost impossible to get hit especially if you have greatest reflex as well
Definitely helps if you use this technique in a wall/corner to protect your flanks as well
high island
Well, Bull-Rush is literally invincible.
brisk trail
Yeah, and blitz disc can be used almost independently of bull rush
You have to be clever when you do the 2nd throw
sharp crow
which sword aspect is best for decent heat
high island
What's decent Heat to you?
sharp crow
16-20
high island
Excalibur should be easiest.
brisk trail
A lot of people don't realize that the blitz disc recall doesn't trigger a charged bull rush
Only the throw
Can definitely see why the heat record is with Zeus
high island
That's largely because you'll have a hard time finding a functioning build with anything else.
At those Heats.
brisk trail
Even with FO2, you can use positioning and bull rushing and dashing with your blitz disc to make it to where you can pigeonhole the amount of frames where you can actually even be hit to a very small amount
While relying somewhat primarily on the disc to destroy things
I mean, the bull rushes help
But if you're trying for hitless, you really want to be careful when you bull rush, because the danger frames are immediately after the rush
You want to get as many blitz disc hits per bull rush as possible basically (at least for hitless)
I know high heat =/= hitless, since health is a resource in high heat
high island
I mean you do try to no-hit encounters at high heat, that's not wrong.
brisk trail
Fair
I guess I just imagined it was a teeny bit less stringent considering one hit isn't an ended run the way it is for hitless. But the methodology of play should be the same yeah xD
high island
Plenty of encounters where two hits could end the run lol.
And you want to preserve your HP for the boss fights.
brisk trail
True
high island
The competitors for Zeus are like... Rama can't handle single-dash EM4, and eventually you have to take RI3 EM4; Beowulf can't handle single-cast really, and eventually you have take RI3; Hestia has to take cope picks on Attack to handle DC2, and eventually you have take that...
she/her
"bro"
rustic vale
Yeah, and blitz disc can be used *almost* independently of bull rush
Completely independently*
carmine cloak
Man this run I'm on is absolutely insane. It's not every day I can just be super reckless during heroes.
high island
That's me every day when fighting them.
carmine cloak
I'm not even sure why I'm not dying.
high island
Probably just a matter of them dying faster than you.
carmine cloak
I mean being in constant melee range of minotaur for like the 30-40 seconds I need to kill him?
high island
Whats the next achievement I should attempt
High Heat WR.
brisk trail
High Heat WR.
okay let me just-
alright gamer mode enabled, I'll let you know how it goes
Unironically trying this
I love how the game goes "Great, you made the heat gauge cry, happy??"
high island
See you in a couple minutes.
brisk trail
Bruh why couldnt thunder flourish had been the last one
that would have been mad pog
What the heck is wrong with my dash
Cleared the first room. Gonna NOT take the Erebus gate.
2 encounters cleared!
quiet chasm
can u replenish dd if u havent died yet
high island
No.
brisk trail
Got 5 rooms cleared but then TD started getting really low and I lost focus
I might actually be able to do a max heat run minus TD
Don't commend me, commend Nyaanyaa
She's the one who asked me to go for High heat WR
raw herald
What build and aspect did you try with
rustic vale
Whats the next achievement I should attempt
32 heat
brisk trail
Zeus shield, and I don't get to choose my build
Thanks to the heat that makes it to where you only pick 1 boon randomly chosen foryou
rustic vale
unrouted high heat wr is 63
brisk trail
everything is maxed??
carmine cloak
I really wish I understood why the choices I made this run were the correct ones.
Is it choosing poseidon dash??? Could it be so simple?
brisk trail
[b]ruh
rustic vale
you're missing Personal Liability from hell mode
high island
I really wish I understood why the choices I made this run were the correct ones...
There are no "correct" choices.
Tidal Dash definitely helps a lot with DPS.
rustic vale
There are no "correct" choices. <:tizomg:456913427588317184>
but there are meta choices
carmine cloak
Let me rephrase then. I don't know why I completely dominated this run.
rustic vale
did you send the screenshot to victory boasting?
brisk trail
Attempting 57 heat right now
high island
Let me rephrase then. I don't know why I completely dominated this run.
But you said it took 30-40 seconds to kill Asterius.
carmine cloak
Yea but idk if the featured boons I chose are correct.
brisk trail
I think I'll make it to Asphodel. We'll see.
raw herald
carmine cloak
It might be that my perception of time is off. Maybe what felt like 40 seconds was actually 10.
raw herald
skill issue
brisk trail
I got past 5 rooms on max heat
carmine cloak
I don't think it was 10 tho.
rustic vale
Let me rephrase then. I don't know why I completely dominated this run.
"completely dominated this run" 22 minutes long
brisk trail
Yep :D
raw herald
There’s certainly easier ways to do 57 heat
mortal coyote
what reroll pool is the daedalus hammer in
high island
It might be that my perception of time is off. Maybe what felt like 40 seconds w...
I was just messing with you lol.
carmine cloak
Some of that is loitering.
rustic vale
I don't think it was 10 tho.
40 is probably accurate given the time the run took
rustic vale
Wait where arre the voice channels
there aren't any
brisk trail
Damn, I wanted to stream my 57 heat run
rustic vale
Can I not stream here?
send a twitch link in self promotion
brisk trail
Okay well I'll just send you guys the archive after then
No I don't have a twitch
I just meant discord stream
The archive in the admin chamber shows how far you got right?
raw herald
No
brisk trail
Does it at least tell you what zone you died in
mortal coyote
what i meant is if i reroll pomegranates is it possible that it lands on the hammer?
brisk trail
If it does, I can prove I made it to 57 heat Asphodel
raw herald
Does it at least tell you what zone you died in
Yeah
rustic vale
Does it at least tell you what zone you died in
yes, it also shows what you died to
and everything you got
brisk trail
Okay, so the achievement is 57 heat asphodel, im going for it
high island
Epic Curse of Agony, epic Battle Rage, epic Tidal Dash, Rush Delivery, +90% Lunge. That was basically your damage.
Needs more poms on Tidal Dash.
carmine cloak
Also when I say 'dominate' I just mean I get all the way in there and somehow only take about 10% of my hp in damage.
raw herald
Also 30 damage per tick razor shoals with hyper delivery zagsword
high island
Oh yeah, I missed Razor Shoals.
carmine cloak
So.... Poseidon good?
raw herald
Yep
high island
There's sparks of a strong build in there, just a little unfocused.
carmine cloak
Well I had to make do with what I found.
Plume was at 28.8% idk if that makes a difference.
raw herald
There's sparks of a strong build in there, just a little unfocused.
That’s the beauty of flat damage soup :D
raw herald
Plume was at 28.8% idk if that makes a difference.
Oh it does
high island
Movement speed is multiplicative, it definitely helps.
high island
Going by the fact you had 3 DDs and 178/290 HP, you could have played a lot more aggressive than you did.
rustic vale
Global damage is additive with other additives?
yes\
high island
Also building more aggressively, like ignoring max HP for more poms etc.
high island
Means 7 Centaur Hearts and no High Confidence.
raw herald
Okay, but consider: 57 heat. Lightning rod. No TD.
Consider 1 dash, EM4, RI + AP + UC + CF
carmine cloak
I did have a few hearts.
ionic minnow
Can you still guan-yu heal on max heat
raw herald
Yes
carmine cloak
And some darkness.
But I don't recall picking them over a damage option
More than once or twice.
ionic minnow
Is routing easy
raw herald
No
carmine cloak
Well there was the time I picked the heart in styx because I didn't need any more boons.
brisk trail
I've finished a run with 500hp before, no arthur
high island
hepl
raw herald
My phone is being DUMB
carmine cloak
I think I picked a heart over a poseidon boon once.
carmine cloak
Why does part of me think Guan Yu high confidence is worth?
raw herald
Because part of you hasn’t been one tapped in Tartarus
high island
If you don't take High Confidence on Guan Yu, you are not worthy of playing Guan Yu.
carmine cloak
Skill issue.
high island
Fear is for the weak.
The two options should just be called: High Confidence and Cowardice.
carmine cloak
It's like, because playing guan yu already pressures you into taking no damage anyway
sturdy nimbus
If you don't take High Confidence on Guan Yu, you are not worthy of playing Guan...
me when I get to 2 HP after taking 1 chaos gate
rustic vale
js3 bp2 fo2 cp2 dc2 gy 💀
strong ridge
guano
carmine cloak
It's actually liquid fire.
rustic vale
it's actually hot chocolate but they coloured it wrong
slim geyser
carmine cloak
Magma balls.
high island
It's the tears of my enemies.
slim geyser
its actually shampoo
raw herald
It's the tears of my enemies.
It isn’t pink tho?
rustic vale
It's the tears of my enemies.
my tears
ionic minnow
Am I, Trash God, your enemy?
carmine cloak
Ok so outside of poseidon dash with support, is there anything else I can look out for?
slim geyser
wait what weapon
ionic minnow
I'll take the silence as "yes you are my greatest rival I love and fear"
carmine cloak
In general
ionic minnow
I, Trash God, am the secret boss of Hades 2
slim geyser
Woah
carmine cloak
Like I'm trying to wrap my head around why this zag sword run went so well and how to replicate and improve without "just make all the same choices".
slim geyser
do you bleed red
high island
In general
A more specific idea of what you're going for, yeah.
high island
Zag fight but he uses Guan Yu.
rustic vale
but he can be using any of the 24 aspects
sturdy nimbus
and it shuffles each fight
carmine cloak
I speculated about there being a Zag fight in Hades 2 but how can they do him justice since he is kinda defined by a lot of different weapons and boons.
sturdy nimbus
and he uses the most optimal builds/playstyles for all of them
sturdy nimbus
imagine just running into zag with achilles spear and hunting blades + fully loaded
high island
time to never take zag fight
But you'll know it'll be fast.
slim geyser
vorime zag lol
rustic vale
But you'll know it'll be fast.
Fair enough
carmine cloak
Are there good alternatives for choosing tidal dash without unnecessarily gimping myself too much?
high island
@carmine cloak if you want to optimize your Tidal Dash builds on Zag Sword... get a lot more poms on your Dash, avoid Casts and Calls that don't really do anything for you (so basically only take Zeus' Aid, Dionysus' Aid, or sigil), avoid gods that don't really do anything for you right there, and get a decent Special not just Attack.
Also take High Confidence.
brisk trail
Aspect of Croven - The player's perception of time is enhanced 2x, making all enemies slower by 50% permanently
carmine cloak
I mean instead of tidal dash
raw herald
Uhh
Blade/thunder/passion dash all work as dashes to build around but they’re a lot worse
high island
Passion Dash is usually for crit builds for Heart Rend.
carmine cloak
Hm hm.
brisk trail
Why don't people take Damage Control earlier?
raw herald
Tidal dash just outclasses it tho
brisk trail
Doesn't really seem like a bad heat
raw herald
Why don't people take Damage Control earlier?
It’s just annoying
Can’t ever one hit enemies
high island
Builds that don't need Tidal Dash usually have their damage coming from somewhere else than your Dash.
carmine cloak
:peepotakesnotes:
raw herald
There are others which are both more fun and are easier
carmine cloak
What does Blade Dash even do for me?
brisk trail
Elephant in the room
high island
Acorn is the best defensive keepsake. Damage Control is like giving every single enemy 1-2 Acorn charges.
brisk trail
Divine Dash
raw herald
Blade dash is solid with engulfing vortex and a few poms
carmine cloak
Divine Dash is one of those cases of "I suck at this game so I take it".
high island
Blade Dash works quite nicely on Malphon since you'll be dashing through enemies a lot anyway.
carmine cloak
Which for me is still true.
raw herald
I prefer tidal dash on most stuff
high island
Although at that point why are you taking Blade Dash over building Merciful End with Divine Dash.
raw herald
On beowulf I want divine dash
sturdy nimbus
You start growing out of your eggshell the moment you stop taking Athena's keepsake on Tartarus on every run
carmine cloak
I just don't like this one dash meta. I want to be able to diversify a bit.
I did stop, I finally got her legendary so I don't need that keepsake anymore.
brisk trail
Did that even have profanity
carmine cloak
Dyno strikes without prejudice.
high island
Hunter Dash is good on bow and Hestia.
brisk trail
Was saying Merciful end was much bigger damage than blade dash in most situations
it does take more setup tho
carmine cloak
Hunter dash on anything that doesn't involve melee you mean?
high island
No I mean bow and Hestia specifically.
dull niche
ngl Hunter dash on dem fists is like sort of a thing since it buffs the dash upper too
carmine cloak
What else doesn't involve melee?
raw herald
Hunter dash eris 
high island
Nemesis Hunter Dash is fine, too, with Heartbreak Flourish and Deadly Strike for Heart Rend.
brisk trail
Nemesis hunter dash only works with double edge imo
carmine cloak
The rail is a melee weapon.
high island
Nemesis sucks without Double Edge anyway, doesn't matter what Dash you have.
brisk trail
tru
high island
It's not that Double Edge doubles your DPS, it's that not having Double Edge halves your DPS.
carmine cloak
Would you say hunter's mark greatly improves nemesis/zagbow?
high island
Hunter's Mark can help a lot with DPS.
carmine cloak
It really lets you use Artemis without using Artemis.
So basically, what I get from this is.
Tidal Dash can get away with being non synergistic.
Other dashes may sometimes contribute to some kind of synergy.
raw herald
I guess
high island
More like Tidal Dash synergizes with anything.
raw herald
Except Rama
high island
Well, not Triple Shot bow.
high island
Except Rama <:dusa:522248771409543188>
I'd take it for high heat.
carmine cloak
What makes super soaker good?
sturdy nimbus
mfw I take tidal dash early but then got hit with the option of explosive triple bow
raw herald
I’d reset
raw herald
What makes super soaker good?
It’s not
carmine cloak
What makes people run it?
raw herald
Memes
sturdy nimbus
because it's funny
raw herald
It’s abysmal in Tartarus
cyan jolt
Why does double edge give both +20% damage and double hit without any disadvantages but for triple strike or whatever it is called you get -25% dash range for 3 hits
raw herald
Absolutely no idea
sturdy nimbus
balancing is weird
rustic vale
Hunter dash on anything that doesn't involve melee you mean?
hunter dash is good on anything that has a big base damage dstrike
carmine cloak
Zag Shield?
carmine cloak
Hm.. What about Zag Shield, Aphro attack, drunken dash, privileged status?
rustic vale
drunken dash is kind of lul
you'd be better off going zag shield > aphro attack > zeus core > smouldering air > dionysus call if you wanted to run a hangover build on zag shield
carmine cloak
I mean I guess something like drunken strike on fists with passion dash would be a beter priv status thing.
rustic vale
drunken strike > heartbreak flourish for fists
high island
you'd be better off going zag shield > aphro attack > zeus core > smouldering ai...
And Heartbreak Strike > Zeus' Aid > Smair would just be better.
rustic vale
And Heartbreak Strike > Zeus' Aid > Smair would just be better. <:tizomg:4569134...
true
carmine cloak
Any other way to easily pop priv status?
high island
I mean I guess something like drunken strike on fists with passion dash would be...
That works.
rustic vale
dionysus and demeter builds are the main priviledged status runners
high island
Any build that starts with Weak that isn't going for crits can do quite well with Privileged Status.
Also any build that starts with Chill or Hangover.
carmine cloak
Oh I guess if you're looking to track down artemis then looking for a second status curse might be a bit impractical?
high island
Right.
If you have to nerf your build just to get the second status curse, it's not a good option.
carmine cloak
Aphro Art duo only increases crit damage right?
That means if I wanna do a zag shield build with aphrodite...
I put artemis on attack?
Weak lasts long enough so I don't need to put it on dash per se.
high island
Deadly Strike + Passion Dash would be good for that.
carmine cloak
Chaos's strike also affects dash strike?
high island
Yes.
Tidal Dash builds generally work better with Family Favorite though.
Privileged Status isn't that much more damage when it's active anyway.
Right. Although if you start with Weak or Hangover and there's no better Dash option in your god pool, might as well go for it and get the extra damage.
Though you'd hope for something like Ravenous Will instead probably.
Takes not too much experience to go from "I'll take Mistral Dash for Privileged Status" to "Mistral Dash sucks, I'll never take it". But then a whole lot more experience to go from that to "this is fine, I'll just grab it for Privileged Status here".
carmine cloak
Ok so... Heartbreak Flourish, Divine Strike, True Shot, and then Deadly Reversal maybe?
high island
On what?
carmine cloak
Zagshield
high island
I think you're looking for too much there tbh lol.
Deadly Strike > Passion Dash > Heart Rend. Done.
carmine cloak
I figured
high island
Ignore other core boons because they'll dilute your Duo pool.
carmine cloak
I'll just try putting Athena in a side slot then.
high island
I'd recommend you don't.
Only if it's Zeus' Aid for Smoldering Air and Lightning Rod.
carmine cloak
I mean you said to not put her in a main slot
high island
Oh, you mean side slot as in non-core.
carmine cloak
So she'd have to go in a side slot.