I didn't like how hell mode enables those automatically
#h1-discussion
hearty bramble
rustic vale
Depends on the aspect
hearty bramble
It's not harder just annoying
latent moon
js and cp are free if you dont take them together and it's below 5 heat imo
they still suck
bitter anvil
Just makes using varatha that much funner
latent moon
but they're not that bad
hearty bramble
Does js add waves of enemies? Or just spawn more enemies per wave?
rustic vale
I have least clears but probably highest win rate with spear
latent moon
Does js add waves of enemies? Or just spawn more enemies per wave?
both
hearty bramble
Oof
bitter anvil
I made the heat gauge cry
hearty bramble
Also thanks I've wondered that a while
bitter anvil
I feel bad now
rustic vale
I made the heat gauge cry
?
hearty bramble
you've never cranked up the heat gauge to the max?? @rustic vale
rustic vale
No
latent moon
i've done 50 heat but i dont know what you mean by "cry"
hearty bramble
i've done 50 heat but i dont know what you mean by "cry"
when you crank up the heat all the way the game says "great, you made the heat gauge cry"
something like that
latent moon
ive never seen that lmao
rustic vale
You just ain’t as cool as I am
bitter anvil
Rip
rustic vale
just send the image link
bitter anvil
I did
latent moon
I try to send it and it says missing permissions
do you have a maxed mirror
bitter anvil
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1016583940213063680/1016584000011243570/20220821_203604.jpg
rustic vale
acoustic bolt
js isn't too bad if you're not also running td3
latent moon
yeah that's why
bitter anvil
Everything is except for the uhhhh
acoustic bolt
but if you're running td3 it's the worst
bitter anvil
Little reroll one
latent moon
you can't run routine inspection if your mirror isn't maxed
latent moon
but if you're running td3 it's the worst
js1 is alright, js2+ sucks
rustic vale
you can't run routine inspection if your mirror isn't maxed
Don’t hellmode add more heat or am I wrong
bitter anvil
Wait you mean max as in everything unlocked or everything fully upgraded?
rustic vale
Wait can you hit 65 heat on hellmode
rustic vale
Wait you mean max as in everything unlocked or everything fully upgraded?
Fully unlocked
bitter anvil
Oh yeah I got that
acoustic bolt
i thought 64 heat required hell mode or something
rustic vale
you probably don’t have em4 unlocked and maybe something else idk
personal liability hellmode gaming
rustic vale
hades fight 
acoustic bolt
you buy it from the contractor
hearty bramble
yes 😈
sorry I meant the smiling one
latent moon
Don’t hellmode add more heat or am I wrong
it adds Personal Liability, max overall heat is 64 including PL
bitter anvil
Good to know
latent moon
without hellmode you get 63 as a max
rustic vale
They missing em4 and pl
acoustic bolt
i don't understand how PL is 1 heat
hearty bramble
has anyone ever beat max heat?
acoustic bolt
yeah
latent moon
no
rustic vale
has anyone ever beat max heat?
Seeded yes
latent moon
wait
acoustic bolt
i mean not me but it's been done
latent moon
yeah seeded
bitter anvil
Someone has had to have
latent moon
but unseeded no
rustic vale
Unseeded angel got like 1 second away apparently z
acoustic bolt
zeus shield only right?
latent moon
Someone has had to have
i dont think you realize how difficult it is lmfao
hearty bramble
bitter anvil
Of the millions of people who play the game, I'm sure at least 1 person has
rustic vale
Of the millions of people who play the game, I'm sure at least 1 person has
Trillions*
bitter anvil
Yeah ok
rustic vale
latent moon
rustic vale
Trillions of peopel play hades
acoustic bolt
it's ludicrously difficult. there is only record of shield doing it
i made it sound like a myth lol
latent moon
there's a 63 modded heat clear by angel but that's it
rustic vale
Having no mirror along with everything else is pain
hearty bramble
haha ive done it just not on record 
trust me guys
latent moon
no mirror, js3 on td3, cp1 (cp2 for 64 heat) and em4 is not fun
also ap2 means you just take what you get
rustic vale
haha ive done it just not on record <:squirtyay:456913427550699552> trust me guy...
I did it but then the super giant from super giant games themself came and stole my physical camera that I had filmed the thing on
acoustic bolt
anybody played inscryption? it was like that except it happened to shackle
acoustic bolt
inscryption was fun for exactly the duration it took me to finish the first part of the game. the rest of the game was no tgood
rustic vale
The super giant from super giant games themself went and stole the physical camera used to film that speedrun?
for inscryption?
bitter anvil
Super giant is the one who shot the lucky carder
acoustic bolt
and the first part of the game was only sorta good. i think the actual game mechanics are ass when compared to something like slay the spire
acoustic bolt
for inscryption?
i said it was "like" your experience, not exactly the same experience :p
i'm not going to more clearly define what happened in inscryption because thats like the entire point of the game. a spoiler for it would ruin it.
rustic vale
I did it but then the super giant from super giant games themself came and stole...
SGG didn’t want the world to know the first 64 heat clear was with zag sword
acoustic bolt
the issue wasn't zag sword
it was shackle
they wanted people to think htey need boons
rustic vale
It was also the fact that it was sub0
acoustic bolt
how else are they going to make money selling boons every run?
bitter anvil
I love stealing Charons obols
rustic vale
I love borrowing Charons obols
acoustic bolt
FO2 TD3 tells me i can't borrow his obols anymore
latent moon
coward do it anyways
latent moon
just get tart mirage on beo and beat his ass
acoustic bolt
ngl that doesn't even sound guaranteed
latent moon
definitely not
rustic vale
FO2 TD3 tells me i can't borrow his obols anymore
Lies and slander
latent moon
every time i've gotten tart mirage it was endshop
bitter anvil
How I sleep knowing charon's oar is stronger than hades' spear
rustic vale
I literally beat him with frost strike spreadfire zag rail in tart
commom frost strike
acoustic bolt
is it impossible for his bag to appear in end shop?
rustic vale
fo2 td3
acoustic bolt
i had no idea
acoustic bolt
ok but also that was spreadfire zag
rustic vale
the best melee aspect I know
acoustic bolt
normally when i get to it i'm much weaker than that
also please tell me you got arctic blast that run
acoustic bolt
that is beautiful
rustic vale
But I also had heroic frost strike by the end of it
bitter anvil
Ice beam with the Artemis duo with like, 5-6 casts is pretty fun
latent moon
meme beams need a lot going for it doesn't it
bitter anvil
So that's what it's called
acoustic bolt
i won a zagbow run earlier on the back of cold embrace
i didn't even have the arty duo
bitter anvil
Plus the boon that makes the beam freeze and the boon that makes max stack chills explode
latent moon
glacial glare and arctic blast respectively i think?
rustic vale
Plus the boon that makes the beam freeze and the boon that makes max stack chill...
This is ME but for casts
rustic vale
glacial glare and arctic blast respectively i think?
Yes
latent moon
i dont use demeter boons because they're all bad except snow burst and rare crop
bitter anvil
Bruh
acoustic bolt
i kinda wish i didn't need to take beam to find glare. because then i would know that taking beam is good XD
rustic vale
the best part about all the dem tier 2’s is that they are non-pommable
latent moon
and you need 2 of them for the legendary lmao
acoustic bolt
i mean, they're not wrong. dem boons are bad except in specifically hera runs
rustic vale
and you need 2 of them for the legendary lmao
watching dad get executed and voicelined is funny enough to warrant picking them up
acoustic bolt
i wish dem attack was flat damage
if dem attack was flat damage she might actually be good
latent moon
watching dad get executed and voicelined is funny enough to warrant picking them...
well it's just that it feels more highroll than finding ME
bitter anvil
My friend will not shut up about the beowulf aspect, talking about how good it is all the time
latent moon
i mean
bitter anvil
What does it even do
latent moon
it is good
rustic vale
My friend will not shut up about the beowulf aspect, talking about how good it i...
They are correct
acoustic bolt
it deletes boss health bars forever
latent moon
What does it even do
big nuke that can do 4k damage if done right and it's not hard to get it right
maybe not 4k
bitter anvil
Oh
latent moon
closer to like 3k maybe
acoustic bolt
it has a million bugs attached to it that makes it crazy strong
latent moon
LMFAO
bitter anvil
Sure wish I could get it if Achilles would get off "break"
acoustic bolt
mirage shot is just double damage instead of 130%
rustic vale
instead of tempest flare or trippy flare
acoustic bolt
poms count twice for trippy flare
latent moon
okay but like
slicing flare isn't that bad
yeah it's bad
but
it can do good damage
rustic vale
The best thing it has going for it is that it is huge
latent moon
yeah
rustic vale
But it has like 0 duration
And the best part is that vicious cycle literally does nothing for it
0 damage increase
high island
Slicing Flare would be a lot better if Vicious Cycle actually did something on it.
acoustic bolt
i want a mod that turns her attack into flat damage now. i'm into it. also a duo that makes some other gods attack chill
like instead of one of her other terrible duos it adds chill and damage to some other gods attack
rustic vale
i want a mod that turns her attack into flat damage now. i'm into it. also a du...
Why do you want flat damage demeter stoppppppppp
high island
Flood Flare would be a lot worse if Mirage Shot actually worked as intended. 
acoustic bolt
why does that bother you so much
latent moon
what would flat damage dem even look like
rustic vale
like instead of one of her other terrible duos it adds chill and damage to some ...
What dem duos are bad anyways
rustic vale
why does that bother you so much
% dem is cool
acoustic bolt
there's literally only one other flat damage god that doesn't have some sort of delay
rustic vale
what would flat damage dem even look like
Snowflakes
acoustic bolt
and a billion % gods
rustic vale
and a billion % gods
It’s literally 5:3 not that big of a difference
acoustic bolt
It’s literally 5:3 not that big of a difference
only if you can only read the first half of a sentence
latent moon
Snowflakes
so like, zeus flat damage that also inflicts chill?
rustic vale
I guess
high island
If Lady Demeter's t2 boons were pommable, she'd easily be top tier for high heat. She's already great for high heat tbh. Chill and Killing Freeze are both amazing.
acoustic bolt
like zeus but doesn't chain maybe
rustic vale
Maybe a bunch of mini slicing blades y’know
acoustic bolt
that would be sweet
latent moon
like zeus but doesn't chain maybe
i feel like that just puts her in the same boat of being worse than other gods but having a slow
rustic vale
And then the ares dem boon would be something difference
but I like dem as a % goddess
Albeit I’m biased since recent frost strike spreadfire run
acoustic bolt
i basically never use her for % because the other ones have some other reason to want it
aphro is bigger, arty crits, athena athenas
latent moon
like dem does the same % as athena but her t2s and other utilities are more valuable than dem so at that point just use athena
rustic vale
I got +127% on attack from her
latent moon
if dem was flat damage that also slows, she's just worse zeus
acoustic bolt
weak is also better than chill
rustic vale
I think shes unique enough and doesn’t warrant just being worse zeus
rustic vale
Ares has 2 things so he’s a bit different
latent moon
I think shes unique enough and doesn’t warrant just being worse zeus
i mean, flat damage is great on rail right
putting dem on rail gives you no aoe at all
same goes with fists
high island
weak is also better than chill
Are you sure?
acoustic bolt
Are you sure?
no i am not
latent moon
it'll work on low heat but once you need room clearance because of JS, she'll fall off
acoustic bolt
she could be reverse zeus
latent moon
so ares is just worse dio
i mean, doom is pretty bad except for ME and curse of vengeance
rustic vale
Making enemies attack less and being slower means less likely to get hit so less damage taken
🧠🧠🧠
acoustic bolt
where zeus wants jolt for good single target damage but has great aoe
demeter needs a secondary boon to get the aoe
nbd
acoustic bolt
i mean, doom is pretty bad except for ME and curse of vengeance
that was entirely my point
acoustic bolt
i also wouldn't mind if her attack was % but her special was flat damage
that's different from everyone
latent moon
her supporting boons and t2s are fine tho but she's not worth looking for as a core god
acoustic bolt
her having access to both would make her more interesting on more weapons
latent moon
except for the sole purpose of PS on hera and passion beo
rustic vale
her supporting boons and t2s are fine tho but she's not worth looking for as a c...
Frost strike rail in shambles
latent moon
literally spread fire smh
rustic vale
Blizzard shot talos also in shambles
latent moon
talos 
rustic vale
literally spread fire smh
Could also be flurry fire arctic blast tbh
latent moon
why would you put % on the rail that isnt spread fire tho
rustic vale
magic
latent moon
how much does blast even do
rustic vale
like 80 at common
acoustic bolt
she's good on like one aspect with one hammer but yeah definitely don't change her attack
latent moon
like 80 at common
okay that's actually kinda big lol
but also isn't like
4 attacks from zeus the same amount
high island
no i am not
Weak value depends a lot on your HP and other sources of damage reduction or dodge chance since it scales with that. The more you go up in Heat, the less you get any of that.
latent moon
nvm it's 8 from zeus
latent moon
but since dem get's a t2, zeus get's a t2 and therefore gets jolted
and jolted easily outdamages arctic blast
acoustic bolt
if i could reliably get arctic blast every time i would take frost strike on more weapons
but for some reason i only find it when it's bad
besides 10 is a lot of attacks even for fast weapons
latent moon
for fast weapons you'll be able to get it reliably on normal rooms but at least with heavy weapons it'll be consistent on bosses
high island
Killing Freeze is way better than Arctic Blast anyway.
latent moon
is that the decay one
high island
Yes.
rustic vale
Demeter fists special
Legit demeter special on demeter fists kinda something I want to try now
latent moon
does the same damage as athena, idk how well poms scale tho
if it's anything like icy flare tho it'll be sad
rustic vale
Demeter % aint bad with good rarity
latent moon
yeah
high island
Killing Freeze does way more damage than you'd expect. And the extra slow is great.
acoustic bolt
i like killing freeze
latent moon
Demeter % aint bad with good rarity
but what would you pair it with
acoustic bolt
it's like better shoals
rustic vale
Killing Freeze does way more damage than you'd expect. And the extra slow is gre...
How hard does killing freeze scale with rarity?
rustic vale
it's like better shoals
Lies and slander 
rustic vale
but what would you pair it with
Zeus attack for cold fusion for pstatus
acoustic bolt
do you have data or just say things are lies when someone says something negative aobut something you like :p
high island
20 damage per tic at common, 30 at rare, 40 at epic.
rustic vale
Ok so
latent moon
Zeus attack for cold fusion for pstatus
oh boy PS rng let's go
i mean it's a strat i guess
high island
objectively wrong in my eyes
acoustic bolt
XD
acoustic bolt
shoals has worse scaling and ticks less often. it just works better in groups but groups explode anyway
therefore, killing freeze is better
because it does the damage faster on the things it actually works on
and it slows
rustic vale
Wdym does damage faster
acoustic bolt
sometimes enemies don't move. killing freeze doesn't care
rustic vale
.2 <<< .5 last time I checked
rustic vale
sometimes enemies don't move. killing freeze doesn't care
Some enemies do get moved. By my poseidon boon
🧠🧠🧠
rustic vale
Wait killing freeze has it’s slow increased with rarity
ok I’m on side killing freeze
high island
You'll get Killing Freeze to work a lot more often than just in boss fights, but that's mainly where it matters anyway.
acoustic bolt
tbh i thought freeze was 0.2 seconds so i'll admit i was mistaken there
latent moon
Although idk if that counts for shoals
acoustic bolt
when they move. i'm unconvinced it ticks from like 1 tempest strike hit
rustic vale
Forced movement counts for shoals
acoustic bolt
yes
latent moon
Lmfao thwomp
acoustic bolt
but does 1 tempest strike move a boss? i know chiron does when it's a billion hits
rustic vale
but does 1 tempest strike move a boss? i know chiron does when it's a billion hi...
Yes
Because chiron flourish is a lot of little hits
Each little hit is moving the boss
each hit is moving the boss
A timy amount
high island
Ruptured also only lasts for 3 seconds while Chill lasts for 8 seconds. You'll have plenty of moments in boss fights where you're not re-applying Ruptured that quickly while Decay will keep doing damage.
acoustic bolt
so say each hit knocks them back 0.2 units, but those units add up with quick succession
so chiron moves a boss 1 unit after 5 hits (not literally it's just random numbers)
does shoals tick when they are moved 0.2 units, or only when they are actually moved 1 whole unit
rustic vale
Pretty sure when they are moved
regardless of distance
Otherwise sea storm would also never prok on bosses
But it does
cuz if it don’t get move move it don’t get zap zap
acoustic bolt
i'll try and check my dps meter next time i can
wait doesn't sea storm trigger when things are hit with knockback
rustic vale
Otherwise sea storm would also never prok on bosses
This is actually bad logic now that I think about it
acoustic bolt
shoals specifically says when it's moved
high island
This is actually bad logic now that I think about it
Thinking is a good trick.
acoustic bolt
right so yeah that's an important distinction
so how much do they ahve to be moved before rupture considers them moved
there must be a unit somewhere
it could just be any number greater than zero but it might also not be
high island
I mean any change in xyz-coordinates is movement.
acoustic bolt
it depends on how the logic for the map actually works though right? in my example above, if the map is divided into single units but a single tempst strike causes 0.2 units of displacement, they don't actually move until it hits 1
like on a dnd map where it's 5 feet increments. you don't change squares if you only move 2 feet
high island
If you're really that interested in the specifics, you could see if somebody in the Haddes Modding discord is up to looking into the game files. Or look yourself, I guess, if you can make sense of it.
acoustic bolt
and there are some abilities that cause movement in non-divisible by 5 increments
acoustic bolt
If you're really that interested in the specifics, you could see if somebody in ...
i asked on the speedrunning channel, they're usually good about specifics but the mod one is a good idea
high island
The people in the speedrunning server who could help you with that are probably also active in the modding server lol.
acoustic bolt
i asked there too
but yeah i could be way off base, but that information drastically changes how rupture works
rustic vale
I think that it’s probably just any change in xyz coords
Why would you code it that thye have to move x units for it to count
acoustic bolt
right but do xyz coords necessarily change on each tempest strike? it's imperceptible until there are a bunch of hits
rustic vale
right but do xyz coords necessarily change on each tempest strike? it's imperce...
I think so
Moving a fraction of an xyz coord would be odd
and also then you’d only see like a very slight movement once a bunch of hits happen
Very slight
acoustic bolt
who knows bosses could have some resistance to it where they need to be hit like 4 times for 1 unit or something
acoustic bolt
they are clearly effected differently by knockback, so i'm not assumign one way or the other
my argument is just that it's worse with some abilities if it works one way. i don't think it makes less sense to code it one way or the other. architecture is complicated
like really really crazy complicated
high island
Personally, I only care for details like that when there's practical relevance. In this case, knowing the specifics will have zero effect on how I play anyway.
acoustic bolt
well the discussion was on which boon is more powerful. the answer is in the details.
the answer obviously also decides whether or not demeter would be better/more interesting if her attack was % and special was flat or vice versa
yep those two are definitely connected
acoustic bolt
Personally, I only care for details like that when there's practical relevance. ...
who knows maybe you'll be in a situation where you need to sell one to UC and your build uses them both equally well
you'll remember this convo and not care at all which you choose :p
high island
This conversation will have legit zero effect on my decision in that moment.
rustic vale
True
Because who actually plays h*des anyway
Can’t make the decision if you aren’t playing to make the decision
acoustic bolt
This conversation will have legit zero effect on my decision in that moment.
that tracks
high island
If it's UC, it's high heat, and there's no way I am purging Killing Freeze over Razor Shoals in high heat if I have a good way of applying Chill unless there's already a bunch of poms on Shoals or Killing Freeze is common and Shoals is epic perhaps.
acoustic bolt
i agree. the damage difference really isn't the deciding factor
ap2 got forced killing freeze after being forced demeter call but you also have splash dash and shoals
rustic vale
bye bye RD
acoustic bolt
XD
rustic vale
razor shoals and killing freeze
acoustic bolt
third boon is actually spreadfire
rustic vale
Noooooooo
acoustic bolt
since we established yesterday or something that hammers are boons
acoustic bolt
heroic, 7
rustic vale
Do we have the flurry fire or delta fire duos
acoustic bolt
no duo just rocket bomb with zeus special
rustic vale
just to confirm this is hades spear right
acoustic bolt
ofc
high island
i agree. the damage difference really isn't the deciding factor
With no poms on Shoals, Killing Freeze will almost always win in damage in the Hades fight anyway. It can often pretty easily be your #1 source of damage.
acoustic bolt
it is sort of funny that clockets is sort of a duo now that you mention that. not a ton of those hammer wise
acoustic bolt
With no poms on Shoals, Killing Freeze will almost always win in damage in the H...
this is very interesting to me. what sort of build has that be the case
high island
I think killing freeze because demeter aid is a pathetic way to inflict chill
Demeter's Aid + Killing Freeze if you build god gauge at a reasonable rate vs Hades is basically constant Chill.
high island
this is very interesting to me. what sort of build has that be the case
High Heat just simply has a lot of moments in which you don't get to deal any other damage while Decay will keep ticking away at his health.
Razor Shoals would wear off pretty fast in the same time and not deal damage constantly.
Chill virtually never wears off in the fight until he turns invisible, and you can easily reapply it when he returns.
Also Razor Shoals is typically applied from Tidal Dash, which requires you to get close, which you often just don't want to do in EM4.
Razor Shoals is still a decent chunk of damage in the fight, but it's much more relevant for room clear.
Relative to Killing Freeze.
acoustic bolt
i was going to say i'm constantly underwhelmed by shoals in room clears
it's a lot better if you're spreading it around i guess
high island
It does a decent amount of damage. It doesn't need to do a lot anyway, it just needs to help you finish off enemies.
If you leave every enemy at 1 HP, doing 1 more damage is a lot of value.
acoustic bolt
so its primary purpose is breakpoints?
high island
And at higher heats, you're doing a lot less one-shots overall anyway, so DOT becomes more valuable.
acoustic bolt
i just run with dps meters on all the time and it's always much lower than you would expect
i should keep better track though
user error is also a thing. i'm definitely not good.
for example, how often are you just supposed to completely focus on tidal dash and not even bother with other attacks?
like some amount of the time eris tidal dash is just using grenades to make tidal dash stronger and not even bothering to shoot
high island
so its primary purpose is breakpoints?
That goes for all damage outside of boss fights.
acoustic bolt
that is a fair statement
high island
for example, how often are you just supposed to completely focus on tidal dash a...
There's never really a reason to not use your Attack on Eris tbh.
acoustic bolt
a specific scenario i'm thinking of is somehitng like greater reflex
where you can just spam dash but if you're attacking you're losing your i-frames
if you're not attacking you can just dash through without danger
high island
I-frames don't matter if things are dying.
You should also put yourself in positions where you don't have to dash through attacks when survivability is a concern. It just comes down to better positioning and more efficient movement.
acoustic bolt
i haven't watched a ton of high heat gameplay so i really only know my own experience for positioning. perhaps i should watch some videos. might up my sword game
high island
But even up to like 32 Heat and somewhat beyond that, you can play hyper-aggressive on Eris and just kill everything without ever worrying about your HP. Losing some HP or DDs in the run doesn't matter if you ultimately end up killing dad before anything in the run can take your last DD because your DPS is too high.
acoustic bolt
i definitely lost an eris run earlier to being aggressive at 30 heat. definitely a skill issue though
high island
Probably not a matter of how aggressive but how efficient you were.
40+ Heat tbh I would just use Delta Chamber personally, and that solves all your i-frame problems.
acoustic bolt
sure but i would prefer to not play seeded all the time
even if i'm only seeding the hammer
maybe i'll change my mind when i'm up to 40 heat
i probably won't even get there though
high island
Not talking about seeded, but you can just reset for that or Rocket/Cluster. Pretty hard to miss all 3 of them without AP.
acoustic bolt
that is remarkably similar. my point is i'd rather just attempt runs with what i find most of the time
that's a more interesting challenge than just having the three most useful hammers every time
to me
so i find a lot more value in tips that don't just assume i'm going to have X thing every time.
can you explain what more efficient movement is?
high island
What I meant tbh was less "reset for Delta" and more pick Delta over options. Before 40ish, I would just pick whatever does the most damage, but at 40+, I would just pick Delta over anything else... except if I already have Rocket/Cluster and see the other one, I guess.
acoustic bolt
oh for sure i generally pick for optimization
i'll take double edge over anything for example. not oging to take worse things because theyr'e there. but i'm not going to reset for it.
high island
can you explain what more efficient movement is?
Basically, pick a path that lets you constantly do damage without running into attacks. If that makes sense. Like don't put yourself right next a Greatshield with your dashes on cooldown, or don't put yourself so close to a charging Lout that your only way out is an empty dash to i-frame the attack.
acoustic bolt
oh yeah that makes sense but learning FO2 my reaction is still panicking. even withou FO2 a lot of my reaction to asterius wasn't understanding the attack pattern it was just bailing
doing that is certainly bad
lol
high island
You basically start with learning your DPS rotation for your weapon and learning to execute those inputs consistently. Then as you get better at that, you can focus more on applying it to kill enemies efficiently. As you get better at that, you can focus more on killing groups of enemies efficiently rather than just focusing on single targets. Like for example, the most efficient way to kill a single enemy might be by pushing it into the closest wall with your Dash-Strike and Tidal Dash... but that doing that might spread out the other enemies around it and you end having to kill all three of them individually... whereas dashing back to let them group up and then dashing forward when you can push all three into the wall... it takes longer to kill that one enemy but you end up taking less time for all three.
high island
oh yeah that makes sense but learning FO2 my reaction is still panicking. even w...
Well, that sounds like you're already starting to pay a lot closer attention to his attack behavior. So you're on the right track.
high island
You basically start with learning your DPS rotation for your weapon and learning...
Then as you kill groups more efficiently, you can focus more on killing whole enemy waves more efficiently, even factoring in a wave with staggered spawns... then not just one wave but all of the enemy waves in a room + positioning yourself well to get right near the exit (or Well of Charon if you want to buy something) for the last kill.
acoustic bolt
i think a big issue with my dps rotations is some builds i'm far too spread out. they lack focus and i don't decide on a method of damage fast enough. so i'm alternating between equally effect damage instead of specializing in one kind so i can optimize the rotation
like getting cast stuff while not on a cast build or something. i donno if that makes sense.
high island
No, I get that. The easy solution would to be just study the meta and watch some speedruns to learn DPS rotations for each aspect.
And then practice a lot trying to apply that and learning the ins and outs of those builds.
acoustic bolt
Is there a repository somewhere or do you just YouTube "Hades Speedrun"
high island
acoustic bolt
Oh neat
hearty ermine
havent played hades in a while and pls tell me how to get back into it thanks
acoustic bolt
I would be very tempted to just start a new save
acoustic bolt
No, I get that. The easy solution would to be just study the meta and watch some...
I've definitely played enough where I know what a lot of the builds are but I end up speculating on other stuff. "Why not take this so I can maybe get this duo before I find the important one? "
Or I'll take backup plans. Like I don't think I can face off FO2 EM3 asterius straight up with just naked dodging and reasonable DPS so instead I try to find lightning rod so I can just run away or something
I think I'm getting to the point where that doesn't work because I need to be more focused on my primary dps option or I'll just die to regular rooms. The wiggle room is bleeding away so to speak
I mean if it did still work I would be winning more than 1/6 now 😜
high island
EM3 FO2 is very difficult to learn on melee.
Especially if you're also taking LC4 and SD.
Especially solo Asterius when Acorn isn't doing anything and you're less likely to have seen Patroclus yet.
acoustic bolt
I had not considered taking acorn into elysium
I don't face solo asterius since I'm playing with the Speedrun mod pack
acoustic bolt
I've been alternating between god 3 and hourglass but I guess hourglass is really only good on cast builds
In which case asterius isn't that big of an issue
high island
Yeah, mainly in Cast builds where you aim to more or less skip the fights with burst damage anyway.
Third god keepsake is rarely ever a good idea tbh.
acoustic bolt
I was usually taking it looking for that second duo or ME possibly
Sometimes I take chaos or pom into tart so it's more like god 2 than god 3 just because I can't decide what build I want to do so I just feel it out
high island
If your build needs a second duo, your build already has issues. Meta builds have 0–1 Duo Boons that are important. Sometimes the potential for more but not in need of them.
Third god keepsake can be good situationally, but that's very rare.
acoustic bolt
I hear ya. I was referring to my tendency to lean on backup plans for those harder fights instead of focusing
I'll definitely try acorn. I wonder how many times I actually get hit in that fight
high island
Low heat, you'll want Sigil or Hourglass for the DPS. And high heat, you'll want Lucky Tooth or Acorn for survivability or Earring etc. for the DPS if you're lacking damage.
acoustic bolt
I can never decide on sigil. Probably because I'm trying to qualify for too many things though
Is 30 low or high
high island
Low for me, high for you. 
buoyant lark
@void vigil following up on what you said in #h1-tech-support , it says to look at ''Service - Deep Cleaning''.
but there's no such option available.
and to buy anything else 10 more times.
how can I keep track of what's bought and what's missing?_?
void vigil
iirc things that you bought will be at the bottom, so just scroll down
buoyant lark
iirc things that you bought will be at the bottom, so just scroll down
I mean, I have bought 10 things then.
but the quest won't complete.
lean timber
do another run
buoyant lark
do another run
so I did another run.
and It's just not finishing.
._.
Is it 10 different things I have to buy?
because at this point, this quest is asinine.
._.
void vigil
im not sure what you mean
you need to buy "service, deep cleaning", "service, detailing", a rug, and 10 more items of your choice
in the lounge category specifically
if you did that and its not completing on the next run, maybe theres other story dialogue taking priority
high island
The game isn't really designed in a do quest -> get quest reward kind of way. Doing the requirements for such things just adds the dialogue to the possible narrative events that can happen, pretty much. For the most part, only main story dialogues take priority.
safe tinsel
Ikr like I had 90+ runs and finally, I got there and I videod it. My camera is trash and the glare was insane so you can't rlt see anythings
random pilot
i was thinking , how did persephone escape exactly? she couldnt have possibly faced all the monsters and bosses
high island
Why would anyone stand in her way? She's the Queen.
They try to stop Zagreus at Hades's command.
And why wouldn't she have been able to face them? She's a goddess, Queen of the Underworld no less.
buoyant lark
you need to buy "service, deep cleaning", "service, detailing", a rug, and 10 mo...
those 10 items of choice is where I'm confused.
because I bought 10 items.
yet the quest won't complete.
and I did do a next run, and didn't complete.
so I'm confused.
dusa already has 7 or so nectars too.
rustic vale
i was thinking , how did persephone escape exactly? she couldnt have possibly fa...
“She couldn’t have possibly faced all the monsters and bosses” sureeeeeeee
high island
Meeting the requirements doesn't mean you'll get the reward immediately after your next run.
wraith sand
huh, TIL you can deflect Flame Eaters' explosions
rustic vale
Flame eaters? The things you fish up?
signal aspen
yeah you can deflect those
rustic vale
I love deflecting fish
short glen
Deflecting the fish back into the lava and getting nothing like a boss
high island
Like I said, it's not a do quest -> get reward kind of game. Meeting the requirements just opens up possibilities.
The Underworld doesn't revolve around Zagreus. Dusa probably got other things to take care of right now.
Like eating anxiety snacks cleaning the rafters.
buoyant lark
The Underworld doesn't revolve around Zagreus. Dusa probably got other things to...
I mean, I get that.
but then when am I supposed to be able to finish it?
._.
wraith sand
You'll get it eventually
high island
Odds are you're progressing other things in the meantime. So just focus on that content, I suppose.
buoyant lark
at this point idk what else is more to go on.
I'm spamming nectars on all deities.
I'm trying to level up the keepsakes slowly.
and finishing the last few daedalus hammer upgrades and chaos boon I need.
which companion is the best?
high island
Battie is by far the most common in speedruns and high heat.
signal aspen
10/10
short glen
Just get the rarity apparently
lean timber
common delta chamber, L
wraith sand
chiron is the most satisfying weapon aspect ngl
latent moon
no
bitter anvil
Aww
latent moon
rerolling hammers would actually be busted lmao
considering you can only naturally find 2 in your run and most builds need only 1 specific one
bitter anvil
Its gotten to the point where Persephone forbids that I come back and I don't even have Orpheus yet
OOOOOOOOOOOOH SHID https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/996590385801465966/1016554946222633090/Screenshot_483.png
A RAT
latent moon
rat moment
bitter anvil
I love rats
high island
It's a tiny rat, so no problem.
rich gulch
rat moment
The bane of all no-hit runs.
latent moon
Just don't get the rat
bitter anvil
I love breaching cross almost as much as rats
swift inlet
Do you want spoilers
bitter anvil
No not really
swift inlet
I mean, we're in spoiler friendly territory, but I figured I should ask anyway
Ok good thing I asked lol
Don't worry about it. Just kill the rat 🧠
rustic vale
considering you can only naturally find 2 in your run and most builds need only ...
Zag or hades spear users in shambles needing 2 specific hammers
bitter anvil
That might be me
I have never lost as many death defiance in one hades fight than just now with gauntlets
snow skiff
Zag or hades spear users in shambles needing 2 specific hammers
zag only needs flurry jab?
latent moon
Zag or hades spear users in shambles needing 2 specific hammers
Just get the hammers
swift inlet
I get heroic clockets 😎
Duo boon hammers where you get the effects of other weapons
I want my dash strike to launch rocket bomb
lean timber
modded players be like
slate ingot
How hard is it to find the defiance legendary boon from Chaos that is the last one that I need for the primordial boons prophecy? Do I need to go through every single chaos gate that I find in order to get it.
rustic vale
zag only needs flurry jab?
Mean explosive launcher and charged skewer
rustic vale
True
signal aspen
dont need cskewer just play zeus special
lean timber
How hard is it to find the defiance legendary boon from Chaos that is the last o...
it's extremely hard. you need to visit chaos one time, then another time in the run to qualify. you then have like a 1% chance to get it. legacy supposedly helps
tepid light
ngl, when i first saw vicious skewer, i thought it meant that it gave you 50% crit chance on attacks after recalling the spear
so i was like pog, achilles best hammer
ebon dust
is golden touch better or deep pockets in general
signal aspen
deep pockets
ebon dust
ok ty
swift inlet
This is an exciting run for me
2 minute tart with common boons and rare crop online 😩
signal aspen
no dedge reset
mint coral
legacy moment
swift inlet
Lol
rustic vale
is golden touch better or deep pockets in general
Unless you’re going for a meme hoarding slash run you want deep pockets
swift inlet
3:58 aspho 😳
Dunno if I can actually make this sub 8 without dedge but I might get sub 9
rustic vale
save scum for dedge
raw herald
yeah crit nem without dedge is pretty yikes
swift inlet
We got it bois
rustic vale
Special only sword isn’t bad
rustic vale
Special only sword isn’t bad
It’s just sad if you don’t get double nova till styx by save scumming anvil
or just never getting double nova man dad fight would be pain
signal aspen
i didnt wanna use ME
raw herald
igt moment
signal aspen
my nem pb is still crit nem with shackle start
rustic vale
my nem pb is still crit nem with shackle start
💪💪💪 shackle
raw herald
my nem pb is ME with the epic hermes triple
signal aspen
blade dash start 💪
signal aspen
I use zag sword more often
gross
rustic vale
I know
mental vale
blade dash vicious cycle 💪
raw herald
blade dash +pool of purging :muscle
signal aspen
:muscle
mental vale
THE FILE NAME
raw herald
true
raw herald
when was the last time you played
signal aspen
like 2 weeks ago
mental vale
blade dash +pool of purging :muscle
raw herald
:Ooo:
signal aspen
i am considering lvl 1 hestia lightning strike start 50 heat for hotw
raw herald
im a big believer of the epic doom 50
signal aspen
ely moment
swift inlet
Why didn't charon give me flame wheels release 😔
slate ingot
it's extremely hard. you need to visit chaos one time, then another time in the ...
Does it come down to RNG?
swift inlet
Slicing flare hunting blades when
rustic vale
Slicing flare hunting blades when
Never
swift inlet
😩
rustic vale
Slicing flare duration is so short
rustic vale
frost blades slicing flare
latent moon
Haven't done that but it's probably better
rustic vale
Imagine if your dash blades got affected by hunting blades
rustic vale
They don't last long enough to actually hunt anything
Hunting blades modifies duration no?
or is it that they only hunt for that duration
swift inlet
It doesn't matter, sadly
rustic vale
Thte only sad part about scillanting feast is the enemies are all dead before the lightning matters
swift inlet
The blades get replaced because you're dashing
rustic vale
I wonder what weapons could work well with demeter attack or special
I think demeter fist could use her special well
raw herald
chiron
signal aspen
a lot of weapons work well with her attack and special
if you need a % attack then dem is a good choice if high rarity
rustic vale
you know what’s funny pos has better % than dem and athena on special
I never knew till recently
Because he never gets suggested to people
70% compared to 60%
swift inlet
It's just annoying because he knocks things away sometimes ig
Poseidon on chiron special would be incredibly funny
Or ram
Just pingpong everyone around
rustic vale
or demeter special
signal aspen
sea storm chiron is good
swift inlet
Doesn't sea storm chiron get screwed by the cooldown
signal aspen
its still a good %
rustic vale
it’s basically zeus special chiron but you also have good +% additive and knockback
raw herald
tempest flourish is second highest % flourish
signal aspen
same with tempest strike
signal aspen
thats high
raw herald
top 3 💪
rustic vale
He’s in the top 80th percentile of +% gods
Or wait
Is it 20th percentile
I forget
rustic vale
He’s in the top 80th percentile of +% gods
For % attack anyways
high island
Top 80th means top 80%
80th percentile is top 20%.
rustic vale
20th percentile 🧠🧠🧠
rustic vale
Imagine if swift strike or flourish or cast were cores lmfao
swift inlet
Yep nvm
bitter anvil
I like charged shot
rustic vale
Which one
bitter anvil
Shield
bitter anvil
For one main reason
rustic vale
Cshot best shield hammer subjectively
bitter anvil
It pierces theseus' shield
rustic vale
That is not the only reason
bitter anvil
Yeah ik
rustic vale
better damage on bull rush
rustic vale
better damage on bull rush
Better charge time then beowulf charge
deals max damage no matter how much you charge it
Minotaur rush kinda sad ngl because with cshot you kinda just spam rather than wait for full charge
bitter anvil
Spamming with minotaur rush?
rustic vale
spam cshot
bitter anvil
Oh
rustic vale
since it does 80 base damage no matter how charged it is
then you can move around as well
bitter anvil
I only spam it if I don't have minotaur rush
rustic vale
I don’t think I’d ever take minotaur rush
raw herald
me neither
rustic vale
requires you to fully charge your rush so
bitter anvil
Nothing wrong with that
rustic vale
and I can’t think of hammers I wouldn’t take over it
Maybe some of the special hammers idk
raw herald
just dont take second hammer
rustic vale
just dont take second hammer
But it could be sudden rush or ferocious guard
Or dashing wallop ain’t bad eithe
Time to try out MEowulf
west ravine
What do I do with friendships with locked hearts?
west ravine
I have quite a bit of that. but it won't let me gift anymore things for those with Locked hearts
west ravine
Pretty sure it has to do something with ambrosia
I'm taking about it won't give the options to give them nectar
bitter anvil
Yeah that happened with me to chaos
Locked heart in the codex, but can't gift anything
bitter anvil
Oh yeah
I forgot to do that
I thought it was a joke
Beat hades having the egg equipped
west ravine
Means there is some condition you must fulfill first
Thanks
rustic vale
Beat hades having the egg equipped
ez
bitter anvil
Exactly
lean timber
Does it come down to RNG?
yeah
latent moon
Not me finding 2 in the same run and dying anyways
rustic vale
10 clears moment
bitter anvil
Bruh
"Because you're in the river styx"
I could've just slid slightly into the river the whole time to keep talking
Orpheus hasn't even told me about eurydice yet and now they're dueting
Moment
snow skiff
Not me finding 2 in the same run and dying anyways
2 what
latent moon
idk man
signal aspen
Bruh
latent moon
that's the screenshot of the second one
in the bottom left you can see the chaos defiance there already
snow skiff
Bruh how
latent moon
chaos shield
it obviously raises your chaos rarities
wait that was rail
uh
wtf was i using
oh spread fire zag rail
snow skiff
Kinda true
snow skiff
Complaining always gives better luck for some reason
snow skiff
Like i was malding about having a terrible build exiting aspho and then got deadly flourish jolted and delta
rustic vale
So they hack into your save and inject better luck
after you complain
mayhaps I should save scum clockets next time I play rail hmmm
latent moon
Flurry fire
wait no i'm pretty sure it's zag rail spread fire because i would never willingly force flurry fire with mods
rustic vale
It’s either spreadfire zag or hestia or eris with flurry
rustic vale
That is literally flurry fire
Zag rail with spreadfire is 18/18
rustic vale
24-6=18
latent moon
That was my only time playing it and I threw lmao
rustic vale
I only play zag rail
24(zag rail ammo)-6(from spreadfire)=18 ammo
Explosive fire spread fire zag rail
bitter anvil
Persephone has the underworld drip
Les go
Do I have to talk to chaos with the shield equipped to get him to say the awaken thingy or no?
mint coral
*they and you need first for them to mention you using the shield, then in other time the phrase
bitter anvil
So yes
swift inlet
Are there any eris speedruns that don't start w rocket
because my god it's so much slower without it
raw herald
For unmodded there will be tons
bitter anvil
The most fun I've ever had with exogryph is when I got the hammer upgrade that turns it into a nuke that can damage you and the upgrade that let's you shoot 3 in rapid succession
latent moon
hazard bomb and triple bomb respectively
latent moon
hearing the names will get you better at them lol
bitter anvil
Good to know
snow skiff
Are there any eris speedruns that don't start w rocket
Hazard eris slays
latent moon
just take like 7 damage so you can deal a couple thousand ez
rustic vale
The most fun I've ever had with exogryph is when I got the hammer upgrade that t...
Those are incompatible
latent moon
not with that attitude
rustic vale
Unless you play with mods or something
bitter anvil
Not with my good friend nexus mods it isn't
Ok yeah that was a lie but I wanna try it now
rustic vale
I’m demeter pilled rn
swift inlet
wait what
bitter anvil
I did however get the one that turned then into little rockets
swift inlet
Why are delta and hazard incompatible
latent moon
hazard and triple
rustic vale
Why are delta and hazard incompatible
Triple bomb and hazard are incompatible
latent moon
we never mentioned delta
rustic vale
Epic killing freeze
latent moon
I did however get the one that turned then into little rockets
rocket bomb is the best hammer
heck yeah buddy
bitter anvil
The attack twice thing for shield with charged shot is amazing
swift inlet
Ohhh
rustic vale
pulv blow only affect standing strikes
bitter anvil
I love watching the numbers go from 112 to 3k in not even 5 seconds
swift inlet
I read the 3 thing as 3 round burst
latent moon
I love watching the numbers go from 112 to 3k in not even 5 seconds
that's a beo moment
bitter anvil
I'm using chaos aspect rn
rustic vale
pulv blow literally doesn’t do crap for cshot
bitter anvil
Gives 0 benefit but I'm using it
rustic vale
chaos aspect
latent moon
bad zag shield let's go
rustic vale
You are playing aspectless shield if you play chaos
bitter anvil
Yessir
latent moon
every shield aspect is bad zag shield
rustic vale
shall I cope with epic greater haste or reroll
Wait epic greater evasion is also an option hmmmm
latent moon
aspect?
latent moon
how much does evasion give?
rustic vale
20%
latent moon
if it's 2nd hermes then i'd do evasion i think
rustic vale
It’s first
latent moon
it could open rush delivery if you want to cope with a low percent lmao
and just buy ichors
rustic vale
I have 3 rerolls so I could reroll twice
latent moon
i'd reroll once
bitter anvil
I hate these stupid little chariot things
bitter anvil
I see one rushing towards me, so I block with my shield and it literally stops, turns left, goes around me and eats my toes
latent moon
well that's still good lol
latent moon
I see one rushing towards me, so I block with my shield and it literally stops, ...
dashing through walls/gaps work better than shielding it imo
bitter anvil
Yeah well cast spam seems to be getting me somewhere
latent moon
that is a barge moment
rustic vale
There is a 60% chance atleast one of the 2 boons I want rarity will increase if I take ambrosia delight hmmmm
Killing freeze or greatest reflex if heroic
latent moon
do you really need more dashes with achilles tho
rustic vale
Idk
I’m using demeter attack
So more chill= more better
actually wait I already have 5 dashes hmmm
5*2 from flurry jab means one more dash isn’t really helping much
unless I get arctic blast
latent moon
just take the nectar tbh
rustic vale
True
latent moon
maybe you'll get a good chaos or hermes
rustic vale
maybe you'll get a good chaos or hermes
What even is good hermes at this point
I already have dashes like
What could I want
latent moon
quick recovery is pretty good
or even just hyper sprint, it's still good regardless imo
swift strike would be funny with flurry jab
latent moon
it do be like that
latent moon
it do be like that
rustic vale
I obliterated lernie
So
I’m thinking triple jab
But extending jab is also looking rad
Decided triple jab good because aoe good for killing freeze
old belfry
prepare yourself
bitter anvil
i can't even do extreme measures theseus
rustic vale
Only use em4 for em4 practice or once it’s the least harmful option
Wait I’m getting patty dialogue for usikg achilles spear
How have I not gotten this yet
I’m running pstatus?!?
latent moon
based
rustic vale
Yeah
Run high confidence, pierced butterfly, and never upgrade guan-yu
Also reset mirror for no dd’s or sd’s
👍👍👍
you’ll always have high confidence and pierced butterfly for the whole run that way
active for the whole run
Is demeter aid good or bad
I could pick up purple dem aid rn
rustic vale
Stubborn roots in asphodel
Wait stubborn roots is only with no dd’s left
Well it was better than meme beams and snow burst
bitter anvil
Wait, does the shattered shackle only work when you have 0 boons in general or just for your attack, special or cast?
rustic vale
I forgot that stubborn roots existed tbh
If you have no attack core your attack gets +100%
same with special
Same with cast
Specifically a core boon though
bitter anvil
That would've been good to know. I thought having any boons at all immediately made it useless
rustic vale
I typically don’t assume things work in the literal worst way they could
latent moon
Is demeter aid good or bad
bit late response, but like it's not bad but not the best dps obv
if your cores don't naturally inflict chill then it's not a bad pick up imo
rustic vale
I got zeus aid instead lol
latent moon
based
rustic vale
No jolted though