h2-builds-and-combat

[gentle linden]

I have a DPS Question, primarily because of a build I just played with, and ended my run, realizing I missed something that could potentially be silly, but also a little busted. With Morrigan Twin Blades, a set up with at least enough sprint speed to outrun your thrown blades (special and omega special) (in my case it was 72.25% from apollo sprint and hasty retreat), based on the damage of 30 per blade on the wiki from the omega special, if you continue to outrun your thrown blades, they pile up, creating a disk of utter destruction (if you have poseidon special, it looks like a tron disk). My damage calculation for the DPS of this tron disk after reaching what I found to be the upper limit of thrown sister blades (102 though this may be off) with the sinister pinion hammer, came out to around 60 per second (based on dealing damage repeatedly 100% faster, per blade)* 102 gave me an estimate of 6120 per second, add in origination, and bonus damage from any statuses you have, in my case, it was weak for 34% additional damage and 70% damage froth, I got around 12301.2 per second (excluding froth) + the 60 splash multiplied however it would behave upon collisions, whether that be treated as 1, 10, or 102... I think I was running from a silly saw blade. Are my damage calculations off? This is just curiosity.

I understand it is a little too much of a "stars align" build, but still wanted to find out how much damage that would realistically be doing.

I did realize that it might even be possible to use this to constantly apply two of the death triad, then you just run and dash attack. Rinse and repeat. Don't know if that would work too.

[viral yew]

Where did you get 6120 from per blade lmfaoooo

[viral yew]

Morrigan is slow enough that you wouldn't be able to perform triads while doing this

[gentle linden]

It wasn't 6120 per blade, it was per second, its more along the lines of 60 per blade with 102 blades. but all the blades are inside each other in one big disk.

[viral yew]

Where are you getting 102 from

You can only have up to 3 out at a time with morrigan

[gentle linden]

I threw 102 blades, literally. I counted. I threw that many. You can outrun the blades. You just need the sprint speed to do it.

[viral yew]

You have a clip of this?

[gentle linden]

I have a video of myself doing exactly that and narrating the whole thing. Yeah. I'm gonna upload it to youtube rn.

[viral yew]

mk ty

[viral yew]

I just reread this, and froth doesn't boost damage by a %

it just gives you that much chance to do 50 damage

[gentle linden]

Yes, I realize that.

It was not included in the calculation.

[viral yew]

ok then, and where'd u get 34% weak from?

Isn't it just 14% from the aphro boon, or smth like that

[gentle linden]

I had a bunch of poms on it! And it was Heroic. 4 poms Level 4 Heroic is 34%.

[viral yew]

Ah ok makes sense

Pos splashes do also have an internal cooldown, so the damage from that might be a bit lower

[gentle linden]

This was at the end of a run, so actual feasibility of running this early on is zero.

[gentle linden]

That... is what I expected. That's why I didn't include it in my damage calculations.

[viral yew]

Fair

Either way I don't think it'll hit 12k per second, either due to ingame limitations or something in there not working as expected

[gentle linden]

Yeah. I've got the youtube video of my OBS capture of the absurd tron disk done. I don't know that sending it here is allowed?

[viral yew]

If you have the youtube video link just drop it here that's fine, i'll give it a look as soon as I can

[gentle linden]

https://youtu.be/zOBnVI38qlI?si=7A8iecDhZYaYeCYu

Actually starts around 0:27 first several seconds capture isn't working and I needed to configure my microphone.

See the thumbnail That's the tron disk lol

[viral yew]

Huh, that's really trippy

[gentle linden]

Yep. Its... quite something!

[viral yew]

The only reason I can think of that this wouldn't work is that there's a limit to how many blades you can stack, or that they despawn or smth

But might be worth a shot with mods

[gentle linden]

There is a limit... 102 seemed to be it lol (Then again, there may be a miscount. More testing)

might even be the projectile limit... so run with those, some enemies get neutralized, but I can't actually confirm that without more testing.

[viral yew]

There were also some times you did pick up blades

Hmmmm, we really need to mod this in

With a dps counter

[gentle linden]

There's an audio cue for picking up the blades.

You do see the potential though, right? lol. I wanted to ask people because I thought this was kinda strange.

[viral yew]

Definitely, i've never seen this before

Tryna think of everything possible to disprove it but it seems to work

[gentle linden]

I can even run ahead and attack! If you, (theoretically) throw some special knives and some omega special knives, the thrown ones do activate the triad, I don't know if that state is stored until pickup, but if so, you can run around (and away from them) with both sets active (and however many blades) click attack in a group and then watch the triad activate. rinse and repeat... if the enemies don't die to whatever the DPS of that Sawblade is.

I used the damage value of 30 for Omega special thrown blade from the wiki. I don't know if that is accurate to the DPS of the thrown blades on morrigan since they tick damage continuously.

[viral yew]

No clue either

[viral yew]

You definitely could triad as long as the dash attack doesn't slow you for long enough

[gentle linden]

It doesn't! It's close, but it doesn't. There are definitely rooms that you can't do it in, so just run for it, but with the space in the Typhon room, I was able to do an attack and continue sprinting with the tron disk chasing me.

I apologize that most of the video is me just rambling and on one screen, I should've captured the attack, but I did see it work off the recording after I stopped it, because I realized it'd be even more valuable that, for continuous triad activation. Boss-wise... I don't know viability against typhon, outside of when his tongue is down, other bosses, pretty viable.

I did find that you can run right through the blades without picking them up, though it definitely takes getting used to, and you need enough speed to pull it off, they continue past you as you sprint through them. That might not actually work though, it's kind of hard to tell if blades are picked up with the tron disk because there are so many textures spinning and overlapping.

[viral yew]

That was my other thought, is actually hitting enemies with the blades for a long amount of time consistently

[gentle linden]

I mean 102 blades hitting 1 enemy for even 30 each is a lot of damage.

[viral yew]

True that

[gentle linden]

AoE is nonexistent though, unless you just sprint for your life through everything, dashing over and over to go through them.

(Which is kind of how I won the run, by sprinting through enemies and getting the aphro cast to do the work for me with froth and hitch)

[wild drift]

Boated did a crazy run with Exceptional Talent Nova Flourish on Morrigan special

[gentle linden]

I've had two nuts runs now with Anubis Staff, using Flash Fry and the Hitch damage on death, along with apollo attack for more area and hitch on sprint. So fun, I wiped out every single enemy spawned by scylla before she got melted in her last phase. Whole rooms in tartarus in seconds. Very, VERY fun.

[smoky current]

Help me, idk how to use skull 😭

I suck at it

[gentle linden]

Which skull are you trying to use?

[smoky current]

Any

[gentle linden]

Medea is pretty easy to use, attack, then special, over and over. Done.

That's my preferred skull.

[smoky current]

Rank V Melinoë and Medea, Rank II Persephone, Blank Hel

[gentle linden]

Medea Rank V is very strong. Hel is too, just harder to use.

I recommend Medea if you are not comfortable with the Skull. I use it because I don't like the skull that much, but when I want a fast and fun run, it's my go to because its easy and you get the same playstyle almost every time with the right boons.

[flint widget]

do u use kbm or controller

[smoky current]

Need to beat Prometheus and I can't even reach him

[gentle linden]

Very important question!

[smoky current]

I'm loosing to Cyclope and crazy b

NS2

[flint widget]

for me personally

[gentle linden]

I don't know controls on NS2, but I'd assume being on console, your buttons are attack and special, hold are omegas. Use only attack and special. in that order.

[smoky current]

I forgot, did they put mousse control on the NS2?

[flint widget]

the way i like to use skull (non medea) is to turn on autofire and set it to hold to trigger autofire

[smoky current]

Could be nice

[gentle linden]

You can load multiple attacks and then special for a bigger burst.

[gentle linden]

I didn't know that existed lol

[flint widget]

your attack pattern on non medea skull should be attack two times then dash and special and repeat

this attack pattern obv doesnt work on hel since its different

[smoky current]

Tbf, it's also bc I'm a dps in your face player

But I don't feel like not keeping my distance is the only problem

[gentle linden]

medea does dps in your face very well. Kinda just have to adjust to it. Controlling properly matters a lot. If you miss too many specials (wrong direction) you lose dps and take damage.

And not detonating attack with special also hinders you a lot if you don't do things properly.

[flint widget]

and also the fact that with medea u have to get up close with your enemies meaning that youre more likely to take dmg

[gentle linden]

Yep. High risk, high reward is Medea.

[smoky current]

Just to be sure, except for Medea, skull dps is low?

[flint widget]

no

[gentle linden]

No

[flint widget]

possessed array exists

mel skull with possessed array in particular even outdamages medea

[gentle linden]

Any weapon's dps is low if you play it improperly.

[gentle linden]

I believe that 100%

[smoky current]

True

I only have rival 2 and the timer and I keep being pilled on

At least, Eris is a proper boss now

[gentle linden]

Skull takes getting used to. Tbh, many weapons do. Find the aspect that suits the way you play best, or the one you feel best with and go wild. Don't stack fear too early, either. It really kept me from progressing a lot. Go gradually, build muscle memory and skill as you do runs, start on absurdly low fear, or even zero if you have to. Get consistent runs that you win, up it a little with easy ones then go from there. Rivals is always tempting. Don't fall into that trap. I did.

[smoky current]

It's for the darkness

[flint widget]

but if u want to push fear u have to turn on rivals asap

to get used to the fights

[smoky current]

I know

Did play H1

[gentle linden]

True. I was able to do 20 fear without rivals though. You don't need rivals to get to the fear you need... unless you're going for 32.

[smoky current]

At that point, if I play without extreme mesure, I feel like I'm cheating

[gentle linden]

It isn't cheating if it helps you improve. That's my opinion.

[smoky current]

What chance have lernie against you if you don't boost him?

Sorry for the rant but I'm on 2 days loosing strike on that thing

[wild drift]

Well technically you can get to 50 or even 55 fear without Rivals lol

[smoky current]

Only this one is at 2 darkness

I have to do it

I have 2 at 4 darkness and 3 at 8 darkness

Can't live this one alone

I'm not even sure if I should have a high usage of omega or not

Omega attack is very awkward to use

[spark crown]

how the hell do yall even play 65f T-T it feels so bad

[wild drift]

Yeah it's soul-sucking for me just repeating timing out to Hecate over and over again

Then beating Hecate once and getting the worst 5 cards ever

Then getting 4 Erebus skips with the worst build and making it past Hecate with good cards and thinking why tf couldn't this happen when I got an actual build

(if you couldn't tell I'm curently trying 65 too lol)

[vernal quiver]

Its just 62 with a worse start so :/

[spark crown]

62 but you have nothing

[vernal quiver]

Just gotta play a cleaner early game and hope for some better luck

[vernal quiver]

Artificer persistence is kinda a lot lowkey

And youre basically guaranteed everything else important eventually

[spark crown]

i was running strength per

T_T

[vernal quiver]

Artificer persistence then runner/messenger/sorceress is better assuming artificer hits half decently

Cuz 3 more major rewards, starting with 3 arcana instead of 2 so judgment has slightly better odds

[wild drift]

Strength Persistence might be better with a stronger aspect like Mel Staff tbh

[spark crown]

thana axe T_T

[wild drift]

But otherwise yeah Artificer + Swift Runner is what I use

[vernal quiver]

Yeah no wonder you hate it

[spark crown]

GIGAROS

[vernal quiver]

Yeah i do artificer messenger for circe

65f axe might be a reset hell already icl, like gigaros hammer start kinda reset hell

[spark crown]

or i could roll apollo room 2

off ashes and get strike

nvm my cousin kept f ing yapping at me

honestly this is so soul crushing and unfun ngl

[wild drift]

Funniest feeling is going "wow only 1 minute for Hecate this sucks" then realizing it isn't even the last chamber and just hitting undo night

[flint widget]

pray for good artificer hits/ephyra

and then pray for good judgment hits

[spark crown]

tart mel sttaff lifetax

its plausable

bruh visage nem steals more kills than normal nem

[wild drift]

Oh and it's Dream Dive? Lmao

[spark crown]

yeah XD

[vernal quiver]

yeah for some reason shes just faster in the first couple areas 😭

like substantially its insane

[vernal quiver]

i might just be insane but i find judgment 65f funny, but that might also be beause ive played 67 enough that going arcanaless is very doable

[slate trench]

Is it just me or are artemis encounters way longer on dream dive? Jesus lol

[vernal quiver]

its just how it normally is, any combat npc encounter like that spawns a bunch more enemies

[spark crown]

They feel like 3x as long oml

[lyric summit]

Probably the second worst axe to do an UW 65 💀

Mel Axe Gigaros with Dashing/Seething is generally enough to get you through Erebus provided you get enough skips

[spark crown]

Weird it seems to be the only weapon I have /j

I just have a skill issue but I made it 2 rooms from chronos r1

[wild drift]

Just got Night Furies Centaur Moon Sorceress 🤪

[spark crown]

....

[lyric summit]

Pffft the standard 65 gacha experience

And then death scammed by r3 🤡

[spark crown]

Atleast 2 of those cards are ok

[lyric summit]

Lovers + Death is always ideal. Orig if possible too

[spark crown]

(furies centaur)

[lyric summit]

Or just don’t get hit

[vernal quiver]

I love how they fixed vacuumes taking barriers but not dodges

I love losing 20% on evadex3 because I hit 1 random guy 5 miles away from the arena

[lyric summit]

Fat vacuumers truly be the worst enemy of Evade 😭

[vernal quiver]

i also keep getting some really bad fields

like 4 fields and ive gotten actually 1 minor reward between all 4

[lyric summit]

3-3 and Thorn circle?

[split igloo]

just watched Boated's 62F dream dive, he timed out on both Hecate (R3) and Chronos (R4), by 45 sec! still won though

[lyric summit]

Which weapon?

[split igloo]

morrigan

R3/4 bosses have way too much hp IMO

[wild drift]

Speaking of bad layouts I got cocoons (had to destroy the whole room) into unseal in case of midshop (no midshop) into unseal in case of midshop (no midshop) into Tony = midshop scam into Asphodel

[split igloo]

btw, it seems like NPC boons (Arachne/Narcissus/etc) are boosted if you get them in later biomes, Arachne's onyx dress is 100 armor if Erebus is region 3

[lyric summit]

It’s pretty cool ye

Crimson dress gives 6% per room too

[vernal quiver]

it also feels like they randomly doubled the chances of armored enemies so thats cool

like actually im so confused wtf they were thinking with some of these changes come 45+f

like every encounter has had a gazillion armored enemies its rediculous

[lyric summit]

Truly. 65F has been a bit miserable so far

[split igloo]

but the thing is, if you get tart region 4, Chronos somehow has 50% more hp, is that really reasonable

[wild drift]

Saw Hera twice and never got the special 🤪 and Bridal Glow hit Blinding Rush 🤪 0 skips Oceanus just put the undo night in the bag bro

[lyric summit]

Rerolling for fields honestly feels essential to not time out

[vernal quiver]

i keep dying because frenzy3 and for some reason theres 6 armored boulders and like 50 other armored enemies that i literally cant do anything about because im boonless

[vernal quiver]

r4 champs is basically 2 typhons

[lyric summit]

Oh yeah and Tartarus start is annoying since you have like no boons 😭

[vernal quiver]

fields is geniunley the only viable start lmao

[split igloo]

Chronos is 3 phases, you will just time out, while with champs you can hitch them

[vernal quiver]

yeah but imagine youre me, olympus r4 on my 65 run, no hitch because jpom

regardless on if you can hitch, having to burst down whats basically 2 grit3 typhons is absurd

[split igloo]

the scaling def needs some finetuning

[wild drift]

Either have to change the room system in Tartarus and/or Summit, or just make them impossible to get first is one suggestion I have

[spark crown]

@vernal quiver twin im going back to 60f

i need my arcana crutch

[lyric summit]

Pain 2 or Scars 2?

[spark crown]

s2

[lyric summit]

Oo glgl 👌

[spark crown]

im stupid but im not a masochist

XD

[lyric summit]

What did you call us?

Jkjk

[spark crown]

you know what you max fear runners are

[lyric summit]

you’re not wrong

[spark crown]

btw have you ever seen my teir list (the only one anyone should listen too)

[lyric summit]

I do wonder why we push so many unnecessary challenges upon ourselves when we can just have fun at 0 fear

[lyric summit]

Uh oh

I have Charon Thanatos and Anubis at D Tier

[spark crown]

#h2-builds-and-combat message

[lyric summit]

D for “Does not have a Max fear yet” 💀

[spark crown]

(go to imgur for better look)

[lyric summit]

Oh this is boons/hammers

Jfc

[spark crown]

heres weapons #h2-builds-and-combat message

😭

[lyric summit]

Evadex3 only at A 😱

[wild drift]

Sorceress Wayward Son Moon Night Centaur LMAO

[spark crown]

ive been offered it a grand total of once

[wild drift]

Never playing 65 again

[lyric summit]

Which wep were you trying?

[spark crown]

#h2-builds-and-combat message keepsakes :)

[lyric summit]

It’s pretty nice. Especially if you wanna win 🫢

[wild drift]

Mel Coat, thought since I did Nyx mostly aspectless that I would be able to do this one if I got the same luck

[lyric summit]

Ooo nice. Ye I guess if you grab shimmer hitchslop it should generally be fine

Though I haven’t really touched coats other than Shiva cuz Special aim 🤢

[lyric summit]

Wantler B Tier 😭

[spark crown]

just know none of my teirlists are ragebait

[wild drift]

kbm rise up lol

[spark crown]

YEAHHHH

[lyric summit]

Jpom truly has put the Olympians out of a job

[lyric summit]

Chrolex C tier?

[spark crown]

yeah i never need the extra gold tbh

[lyric summit]

It’s deffo helpful in Oceanus to give you a money bank for R3 onwards or to cash in Chaos

[spark crown]

i like chaos tho so i can never gold them

[lyric summit]

To each their own I guess

[wild drift]

Ok got past Scylla with 1:47 left and the cards are ..

Massive

Orig + Death, no Lovers though

[spark crown]

THEY BUFFED MY BOY

LETS GO ICARUS

(He attacks so fast now)

gigaros morigan appolo attack

im in elysium (ive acended)

[flint widget]

https://giphy.com/gifs/true-correct-why-is-he-olLyDUpnv5z3xhmeyB

[wild drift]

Ok past Cerb with 2:46, lost a DD to panic

[spark crown]

anchors are the worst enemy in the whole game

[wild drift]

I GOT LOVERS

Ok I should be favored to win now

[spark crown]

with the solo exception of scylla ofcourse

[flint widget]

the worst enemy in the game is the one that deals the most damage to me

https://giphy.com/gifs/DYC4Ako9o16854pPyO

[spark crown]

1 more dream dive then im doing normal runs

ending on shiva

@viral yew give me tips for this dogwater aspect

i rolled gigaros as my jpom

im down 3 dd its room 2

[wild drift]

Gottem

Thank you Hera

Damageless Chronos

[spark crown]

Beat poly with the worst weapon in the game 🔥

[lyric summit]

Omega special into enemies and then dash in, special then spam the Attack

[spark crown]

(normal run not dream dive)

[lyric summit]

Dash attack is a bit weak and slow so you kinda wanna do the attacks since they’re pretty strong

Siege Frame is probably the best hammer, and with Apollo, the Attacks can reach pretty far with good reach

Reaper frame or Rapid frame are also great

[spark crown]

https://imgur.com/3iFQjug (phialed cuz i was 1hp

[lyric summit]

No one really uses Mooncrest riser but its mot the worst thing in the world

[wild drift]

Apparently the tech is to dash into special into attack and a certain timing should cancel the dash-strike (Vytautas tech)

[lyric summit]

^

[wild drift]

But it's so hard to do consistently

[flint widget]

true

[lyric summit]

Yee I mentioned that above. It’s so hard to muscle memory it

[flint widget]

even when i special i still somehow dash strike

[spark crown]

same

[lyric summit]

I had Gigaros Mooncrest with Hera Atk for my 65 and a dash Atk build sorta works for good crowd control

[flint widget]

like bro why didnt they remove the 1 million year long start up for the dash strike

[lyric summit]

But ye normal attacks are usually better

The 3rd hit especially with Apollo attack hits for quite a lot of DMG

[spark crown]

no one acknowlaged this so i have no idea if im doing good

[flint widget]

just damageless thessaly trust

[wild drift]

Personally I wouldn't make it that far with Shiva so yes (either I would die or I would hit undo night and choose a different weapon)

[lyric summit]

Tis very nice

[viral yew]

Nah u deserve the pain

[lyric summit]

Just grab a good attack

[spark crown]

wth man

[spark crown]

gonna do ares or appollo

[lyric summit]

Another funny benefit is that a single Shiva OSpecial can trigger Twilight curse so that’s an option

[magic grove]

just don't dash strike, like, ever

[lyric summit]

Plus other curses below 45 magick

[spark crown]

HASTY ANCHORS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL (didnt ge t hit tho)

[lyric summit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1264997921825226863/1491807692656869559/IMG_1283.jpg?ex=69e2ecee&is=69e19b6e&hm=089db2285b1782b1985a84b242a39130448f89bcdf5a4b14c898d59e051611a1&

Had this as a fun Dash attack build

[spark crown]

and icarus T_T

i may not live this one boys

[lyric summit]

Trust me you’ll get protective coating after

[spark crown]

nvm between me icarus and night bloom ive taken 0 damage

scratch that

i lived and got upgraded reaper frame for my troubles

and onion aphro T_T

chribdis aswell WHAT IS THIS RNG

[flint widget]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1284908016918986906/1494022756977610822/togif-5-1.gif

[spark crown]

i blame @viral yew for the loss

[viral yew]

Good

[spark crown]

i hope you never roll feilds in dream dive

[viral yew]

I get it all the time :3

[hollow stag]

What are strong hammers for base Mel knives?

Are they trick knives with reaper knives?

[vernal quiver]

Basically yeah

[glossy jetty]

Trick knives are like the best hammer on any of the knives

[vernal quiver]

Trick knives makes it one of the best weapons in the game lol

[split igloo]

trick knives then whatever looks good for your playstyle/build

I like the one that makes the special charge faster

[spark crown]

Sudden flurry or something

[haughty bear]

You think Supay is warranted some buffs by now?

[flint widget]

nah

it's fine where it is

if it gets buffed in it will legit be top 5 aspects in the game

[wild drift]

Most logical buff to me would be to give omegas hitstun

[magic grove]

i think the only aspects that migth still need some buffs are pan selene and maybe momus

[flint widget]

pan needs the omega special to feel good without hidden knives

[bronze flax]

Selene got some indirect buffs with Profuse Bleeding

[flint widget]

selene needs the hex to not be dogwater

and momus hmmmm

[wild drift]

Artemis too but I guess that technically already got buffed lol

[magic grove]

just bring pre-nerf momus back it would be okay

[turbid karma]

is momus bad? I've always figured it just wasn't a good high-fear weapon because of the magic spend

[flint widget]

they should bring back omega attack channel not canceling during a dash for staff

[magic grove]

i think momus lowkey okay but like... circe and mel are right there

[magic grove]

that would help yeah

[turbid karma]

circe staff my beloved 😁

[bronze flax]

The worst staff is still a staff, so still good

[magic grove]

yeah

the worst staff is a staff
the worst coat is a coat

[bronze flax]

~~I still like Aspect of Selene ~~

It is still not good that Ferocity is such a mandatory upgrade

[glossy jetty]

Is coat not baseline good? I find it really easy to play

[spiral wadi]

selene is actually a very fun aspect for sure

it does suck that u need to be gambling for a good (big) tree

cuz getting a small tree means ur not able to invest in ur hex

[wild drift]

I heard there's a big discrepancy in how the special aims between mouse and controller, which is why controller players tend to not like coat as much

[bronze flax]

Worst of all, a small tree means there is a chance of no Ferocity

[spiral wadi]

yupp

[bronze flax]

Like, can I use it without Ares? Sure
Without Prism? Absolutely, Cascade is still a good upgrade
Without Ferocity? Yeah, I'd prefer to reset the Night

[spiral wadi]

hyperspecific boon/node/hammer for each aspect lmao

i'm convinced aspect of hel is in a state where helheim is best at low/any fear, while going for twisting/colossus ospec valk is best at high fear

[bronze flax]

In all fairness, Ares buffs help that going with the Godsent route doesn't feel like a waste of God, so there is that

Pogress question mark

[spiral wadi]

truu

[final sedge]

ares carries now

[spiral wadi]

grisly actually becoming generally viable is lit

profuse is so weird tho 🐟

[final sedge]

blade drops are fun

[bronze flax]

I tried Omega Attack Hel with Frenzy 2 and it certainly was a run
Eris was so annoying lmao

[spiral wadi]

like i think it's a solid improvement but let it count for penguin savor

[magic grove]

i still feel like having an aspect based on selene/hex is not a good idea, even worse when hexes require you to use omegas and coat omegas are... bad... but even if you wanna do a base coat omega-focused aspect i think i would prefer something else

[final sedge]

there is still cast

[magic grove]

i tried ocast selene before, don't even bother

[wild drift]

My Selene buff idea was to make Shine a (smaller) global damage boost instead lol

[bronze flax]

I just like to go with Omega Special spam with Selene

[spiral wadi]

yea rivals eris is giga mobile that falling blades become useless vs her, i'm sure hel could get around it if u atk while eris is in the air

[final sedge]

I wish the missiles auto fired and you could hold the omega attack as a shield instead of the way it is now where you auto fire your oattack and hold your special

[bronze flax]

Now, if only Fine Line/Controlled Burn/Ocean Swell could appear more often when I use it, it'd be cool

[magic grove]

my selene buff idea is get rid of it and add aspect of icarus coat 👍

[vernal quiver]

man i love when i have a solid r1 dream dive with 30 seconds to spare and i roll orig out of it only to drop into olympus 🥀

hard reset theres no way getting olympus at all is gonna be fun

[final sedge]

aspect of icarus get an absorb explosion to do more damage gimmick would be cool

[wild drift]

Oh yeah I remember you (or someone else Idk) saying that a while ago lol

[magic grove]

i love how there's already so much rng involved in high fear and sgg just went like "okay bet" and added more rrng

[magic grove]

my idea was something along the lines of getting a buff when you do a fully charged oattack

[final sedge]

what's your idea on the fix for gift gift gift

[spiral wadi]

sounds like shiva

[spiral wadi]

make it so jpom or discordant starts doesn't stop ggg from appearing

[vernal quiver]

like genuinely 65f dream dive feels so much worse than a normal 67 😭

since at least 67 i get to play the game 🥀

[final sedge]

yeah but I'd want it to work more like Eris gun from hades 1

[spiral wadi]

it's been a known issue since 1.0 and i know for a fact i've reported it in f10 like 2 times now

[vernal quiver]

and genuinley im not even sure a dream dive 67 is gonna be possible

the scaling in the last area would be so absurd even antler wont keep up

[spiral wadi]

yea grit scales wayyyy too stupid in dream dive

[bronze flax]

So that's why I haven't seen gift gift gift in forever lmao

[spiral wadi]

ye lmao

[magic grove]

i am still struggling on a 62f dream dive (and sometimes still trying 65f normal run lol) but yeah

[flat epoch]

Does anyone know what are the specific conditions to unlock dream dives? Already woke up Hypnos and completed the quest but I still can't access them :(

[vernal quiver]

65 is really fine as long as you get orig early and get the god route of fields -> ephyra/erebus -> ephyra/erebus -> anything that isnt olymus or oceanus

[magic grove]

still, i love the idea behind dream dives, theyre awesome

[spiral wadi]

lemme share the bug bingo rq

[magic grove]

epilogue maybe?

[vernal quiver]

it takes i think like 4 runs after you wake him up for them to appear?

[flat epoch]

Already unlocked the true ending and stuff like that, so its probably the latter! Thanks for the help guys :)

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1494725799633354984/finalbingox.png?ex=69e3a761&is=69e255e1&hm=a0709e0464a09ff27d285d992ce5611c1705c2e77f4c1705622dd9cb0c61122a&

[vernal quiver]

but its insane how high fear dream dives really exacerbates issues, grit scales so incredibly hard, literally 5/8 of the regions are unplayable without at least an areas worth of boons, enemies become so much more obnoxious with the less damage across the board

plus frenzy3 for whatever reason

[round olive]

Anyone got any tip for a dress run to chronos, specificaly for anyone who is absolutly trash at actualy dodging attacks?

[spiral wadi]

green means fixed in patch 2, yellow means to be determined

and i'm 80% sure there's still hitstun jank

[vernal quiver]

uhhh take heph keepsake, try to get all of his armor boons, then take arachne sash and try to ramp the armor as much as you can

[spiral wadi]

i had anchor telegraph desync again this patch as well, the indicator was completely off from the actual hitbox

[bronze flax]

Wait, Omen does what?

[spiral wadi]

Omen should buff the next omega move dmg, right

one ospec rocket completely consumes omen

so the other rockets don't get omen buff

surprise it's ass

[bronze flax]

Bruh

[magic grove]

okay i didnt see the scaling numbers for dream dives before but i was curious and just saw them

what the hell is this

[spiral wadi]

yea so polyphemus r4 has like typhon levels of hp

[magic grove]

lmaaaao

[spiral wadi]

and that's pre grit

[turbid karma]

that makes sense though, right?

[vernal quiver]

yeah r4 champs means 2 typhon bars :D

[turbid karma]

R4 you're doing typhon amounts of damage

[final sedge]

they made it harder than normal for the 4th region for everything

[spiral wadi]

i mean kinda? but it's also that every enemy in the region is also giga buffed

[bronze flax]

Where can I see those numbers?

[turbid karma]

eugh hadn't thought of that...

[vernal quiver]

not really since you dont have a normal run so chances are you arent getting the same stuff

[magic grove]

why is eris r2 weaker than regular eris... you normally find her in r2

[spiral wadi]

oh is it actually 2 bars

[turbid karma]

Ah sure, I hear that

[final sedge]

They are mined data, we allowed to post the chart?

[spiral wadi]

doubt it

[vernal quiver]

nope not here

[magic grove]

not here

its on speedcord

[final sedge]

who knows... but r2 sirens are harder than normal

[magic grove]

❓

lool that explains a lot, this is messed up they gotta fix those numbers

[spiral wadi]

yo wait why are prometheus and heroes nearly doubled in r4

[vernal quiver]

like low fear i get that the scaling doesnt matter much but anything like 45+ and its terrible 😭

[final sedge]

new mode, their rules, they don't need to fix anything if they don't want

[spiral wadi]

yea that is tru, it doesn't have to be a high fear oriented thing

[magic grove]

i mean yeah but some of those numbers make no sense

[flint widget]

game wasn't meant to be played above like 32 fear anyway

[vernal quiver]

i wish i could tell ya 🥀 went into champs r4 with a really strong build and 2 minutes on the clock, timed out by like a minute and they still werent dead

[spiral wadi]

it just kinda sucks ass that it is in fact not playable for 62 fear

[magic grove]

but like... its a bit weird... its a late-game feature no? since you only unlock it after true ending and stuff

[bronze flax]

We won't be seeing a 67F for Dream Dive soon... Or maybe we'll do, who knows?

[vernal quiver]

i dont even think many people are running 65

[magic grove]

even for people who dont play high fear the scaling is still weird, like depending on your luck for someone who just did the 3 statues they might not be able to do even a 32f dream dive

not even thinking about how many people "like" (for some reason) or just don't know better and play grit/pain/hordes in low fears

i'm trying my best to think not only as the "high fear player" (which i'm not but anyway) but in general its still weird

[final sedge]

Does Medea have a health bar I've never noticed?

[vernal quiver]

no its just poly

[spiral wadi]

idk if it's really the hp scaling that's the issue as much as it is just how much it compounds on vows, grit/hordes makes r1 clearing extremely ass if it's not fields and if u keep hitting the cloaked satyr rooms that only spawn 2 at a time ur timer is just cooked ggs, forfeit means if u hit tart or summit ur cooked out of a build (i've had summit r1 literally give zero boons)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1494513968553791649/20260416184440-01KPCHRTVC7SNA3YY54N43H55G.jpg?ex=69e38ad8&is=69e23958&hm=b082854f7c9ae126e7570dc2f4d1fbf206eece258c838977e3b4eaae38e8cfb4&

like how am i supposed to do this at 62

[final sedge]

anyone here fought R4 Hecate yet?

[vernal quiver]

nah grisly carries trust

[spiral wadi]

that run did clear, grisly did do well

[magic grove]

i fought R3 hecate and SHE GOT HANDS

[spiral wadi]

but like it's unrealistic to even expect that to work with grit/hordes turned up

[vernal quiver]

even an r1 fields you still have to hope things line up super nice

[magic grove]

still like easy but so much hp

[final sedge]

first round Typhon is a push over

[vernal quiver]

you can get nem scammed, 65 youre rolling artificer, could just get terrible boons and awful room luck not even considering echo scams

[wild drift]

Not when you have no damage

[round olive]

I have now unlocked every arcana save for judgement. I recall having a lot of fun with judgement in EA, but I think they nerfed it since didn't they?

[spiral wadi]

and that was also with forfeit turned off, i had selene start

so i had to pop onion first midboss, then get a god second midboss

[vernal quiver]

yeah selene and hammer starts both feel terribly undoable

[magic grove]

selene is undo night anyway even in normal runs for me atleast

[spiral wadi]

i think deadass dream dives should force boon 1st and no hammer/selene start

[vernal quiver]

true!

[spiral wadi]

having to deal with forfeit in regions that are boon-scarce like tart is not great

[vernal quiver]

then theres always the chance you roll fields -> anything that isnt ephyra so you still have like actually nothing for the rest of the run

[spiral wadi]

yea fields into ephyra is the dream lineup

[magic grove]

wdym the hp scaling on hecate r4 is NINE?

[spiral wadi]

yea hecate lives forever even with antler https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1494519108769808464/20260416190508-01KPCJY78PF3W6RQDDA875Y80M.mp4?ex=69e38fa2&is=69e23e22&hm=54f2348391edec0a8d4879f482245a3273a812bdc65a6cebedc1b3bd187d8aa6&

[magic grove]

also weird that there is scaling numbers for hec/poly R1 considering they cannot come r1

[spiral wadi]

no grit btw

[wild drift]

Rivals Hecate R4 also has almost exactly Typhon health lmao

[spiral wadi]

like this is also me

• having good boon knowledge and knowing how to build for high dmg
• being good enough to bring antler

[magic grove]

i like the idea of fighting super hecate and super poly and stuff like that

its just weird how inconsistent the number are??

[spiral wadi]

ye

like i respect the challenge, it just stacks hard on top of grit LOL

maybe if grit was just additive?

[wild drift]

Lowest R4 HP number seems to be Eris at ~54k

[spiral wadi]

does thessaly have speed increase

can't imagine hitting swifter clanger auto seekers or anchors would be fun

[vernal quiver]

if it does thats insuffrable cuz then she leaves faster and just wont get hit like ever

[spiral wadi]

i think rivals don't get speed increase in general

however i had rivals typhon babality feel a bit slower in his laser pattern

that did hit me

[wild drift]

R4 Rivals Cerb has ~87k 💀

[vernal quiver]

even r1 cerb feels grossly tanky with a good fields 🥀

[verbal whale]

[spiral wadi]

lol yea wtf

can we just aim for like 60k to 65k with hp scaling

[final sedge]

I see boated got a 62 win on dream dive

[vernal quiver]

62 isnt bad tbh i did it 2nd try with a pos cast setup on circe lol, but 65 is insane rng checks and 67 is probably not even doable

[spiral wadi]

see i think 62f on first dream dive is extremely ez because it's guaranteed to be fields first

[spiral wadi]

damn what regions

[vernal quiver]

lemme find the win screen

#h2-victory-boasting message

my first boon was pos dash 2/3 of the way through thessaly 🥀

[spiral wadi]

huge rush dmg

[vernal quiver]

even with double crits gramps lived for so long

[spiral wadi]

yea i don't think r4 of region 4s need hp scaling

[vernal quiver]

but i was also hard carried by the fields -> ephyra for 2/3 that set me up so well for r4

if i didnt get those 2 i was fs timing out

[restive merlin]

from chaos:
+1 defiance(i lost 1 already) or +91% attacks(i already have 55% ares)

[glossy jetty]

Attacks, you can get kiss of Styx later

[restive merlin]

from who?

[glossy jetty]

Shops, charon wells, Hermes whatevers

[vernal quiver]

echo can give a refresh, athena can too, and any wells or the tart/summit endshop

[restive merlin]

if i wanna get a ton of healing because i got a ton of map hp, what's the best way, or way to do that?

[flint widget]

run nergal and pray for psychic

that's free healing

[restive merlin]

uhh, a more about where those are from?

[austere trail]

nergal is axe hidden aspect

psychic whirlwind is a hammer upgrade

[restive merlin]

ah i see, but im already mid run and im not using that

[restive merlin]

also how do i unlock hidden aspects?

[austere trail]

unlock the base aspects for that weapon and upgrade one of the non-mel aspects to max. for example, you could upgrade aspect of thanatos to max

and then speak to an NPC who will give you the phrase to awaken the weapon. it's always the person who has the third aspect

[restive merlin]

i did that for both knives and skull

[spiral wadi]

isn't circe the 2nd aspect

[austere trail]

think it's the third

if I'm wrong then I'm actually so crazy

[wild drift]

I didn't realize it was only JPom (or at least not Calling Card) apparently that disables Gift Gift Gift (or maybe it's just in Dream Dives?)

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/1so1kxa/fates_whim_and_echo/

[spiral wadi]

it's both jpom and discordant bell

the way ggg works is that it checks the whole boon list if u have a valid keepsake that can be duped

the problem is that jpom and discordant remain in your list even after taking them off

[austere trail]

omg aspect of circe is second
my life is a lie

[spiral wadi]

so ggg sees that and thinks it can't dupe ur current keepsake even if it's valid

[austere trail]

okay so it's just gonna be the names of people you can meet in game

[restive merlin]

so what's the hidden aspect of knives and skull?

[austere trail]

ahhhh it's always the second aspect person

[austere trail]

hidden knives is the morrigan, skull is hel

can get it from artemis and medea respectively

[restive merlin]

yea but hel is kinda weird cuz i have to get the poppy skull from underworld poppy flower first

[spiral wadi]

it would be metal if giving nyx nectar was what triggered the shiva waking phrase

[austere trail]

lol

[upbeat goblet]

Best starting boon for Melinoe Skull?

[restive merlin]

is there less than 15 locations in the last area in underworld?

[upbeat goblet]

Can be minimum 5 if you want

[restive merlin]

xD

[restive merlin]

i got banshe brand!!!!!!!!

from random hammer(relic)

[upbeat goblet]

Dont know what that Is yet

[restive merlin]

basically my biggest damage(777) has 33% chance to be double

[upbeat goblet]

Is It like an expiring thing? Or you Need to do the 15 locations?

That's crazy good

[restive merlin]

it is expiring

[upbeat goblet]

If you got It on 4th Biome you can take It to the boss no problem

Maybe even on the 3rd if Locations only country as combat places

[restive merlin]

yea yea im there, also if a reward has onion above it does that mean im not getting it 100%?

[upbeat goblet]

Dont know about onions

[restive merlin]

np

[dapper elbow]

Has anyone made a boon chart like the one pinned in the h1-builds-and-combat? So to see what boons can’t be available when a similar boon is taken. Like with lightning lance and hestia’s version of it

[wild drift]

I think the ranged casts might be the only ones (aside from core boons of course)

[dapper elbow]

Promflare can’t combine with gyser spout or meat grinder

[wild drift]

OCast boons can stack, I think they used to not be able to though

[hexed spade]

Yes they can, at least since the unseen

[dapper elbow]

Oh… so the current wiki needs an update

[hexed spade]

If it’s wikia it’s unfortunately woefully out of date

[dapper elbow]

I was looking at fandom

[hexed spade]

That’s it, fandom is wikia

A significant amount of communities abandoned it due to platform rules but not a lot of them (hades included) recovered on alternative sites

[dapper elbow]

So where should I be looking for information

[hexed spade]

Honestly right now your best bet is here. It sucks I know

[restive merlin]

im just wondering between +222 or 35% faster attacks for morrigan

[hexed spade]

The attack speed don’t necessarily proc blood triads faster, remember omega cast counts as well

[restive merlin]

yea but speed affect omega charge

which is important

[hexed spade]

You can get omega speed boosts from Hermes as well, but you can only get triad boosts from hammers, it’s how I look at this

[restive merlin]

true

[wild drift]

Attack speed will let you proc Blood Triads faster and safer because the best way to proc the Triad is with special + dash-strike + Oattack

More attack speed means less time standing still

[jade raptor]

Persephone skull and the pom stack, right? I can only assume they do, but I want to make sure, because like there a build to be built around them, right?

[spiral wadi]

yes

[jade raptor]

Like imagine a level 10 heph boon right when you get it

That and what if you get echo as well? That'd be insane 😂

[hexed spade]

Yes, it’s part of the fun for me

[west barn]

btw, || is there any kind of trick to evading prometheus' fire attacks when he jumps away from the platform, or am i just gonna be constantly nerfed by my adhd brain needing to remember more than three attacks? 😭 ||

[spiral wadi]

ye

[wild drift]

You can pause and write it down

[hexed spade]

Start counting when red lines shows up

[final sedge]

count them 1, 2, or 3... it's not much harder than memorizing a pin

[hexed spade]

Like up, mid, up

[wild drift]

Or you can memorize the timing and dash through it from the left side

[spiral wadi]

i just say "up middle down" or "1 2 3" for the safe spots in the order they come in

[final sedge]

i found 1 2 3 way easier to remember than top mid bottom

[spiral wadi]

if u have to go from up to bottom or vice versa, u gotta dash twice to make it

[hexed spade]

I used to write them down lol

Yes I was that bad

[jade raptor]

Don't underestimate me playing over and over again, because I played for many hours just to get a perfect beefed up cast run it was insane

That cast run absolutely melted ||typhon||

[spiral wadi]

alternatively u can just dash into the flames and ignore the pattern

[flint widget]

requires timing tho

[hexed spade]

Truthfully I think that requires more skill than counting

[spiral wadi]

rhythm game in my h2

[west barn]

i was just thinking i could do that lol.

[flint widget]

whyd they add a roguelike in my rhythm game

[spiral wadi]

god rhythm doctor is peak story

[restive merlin]

is heaven strike even good at all(or better than ares's)? using morrigan aspect

[spiral wadi]

there's better choices but heaven strike good

[wild drift]

Not the best with The Morrigan but Zeus is almost never not good

[spiral wadi]

i think wounds is pretty nice on atk

[restive merlin]

im using ares's, so i'll keep it probably

[west barn]

thanks for the suggestions everyone.

[spiral wadi]

get the legendary and get sweeping ambush

[wild drift]

Yeah Wounds on attack can get insane with Final Slice/Sweeping Ambush

[restive merlin]

i think i only have ares boons and im at charon's ship

[wild drift]

+50 power +400%

[restive merlin]

hammers?

[spiral wadi]

ye

final slice greatly increases ur normal atk radius, stacks with apollo

sweeping giga buffs ur omega atk dmg

[restive merlin]

hope i get one or two before typhon, if i live that is xD

first time 32 fear

[spiral wadi]

surely

ooo nice

[wild drift]

On the other hand Heaven Flourish is probably the best or second best for The Morrigan since the Blitz will naturally trigger

[spiral wadi]

ye spec is kinda just there for triad lol

scorch would be good if it like, slowed down at its furthest point, then gradually increased speed on return so it actually multihit easier based on how good ur positioning is

ig it'd get weird with the current special triad tech so not too important LOL

[restive merlin]

i rly hope i find hel's aspect is cool

it's the only remaining aspect i don't have and i don't like the others

[spiral wadi]

oh yea hel got a massive glowup this patch

i think it'll be fun

[restive merlin]

idk how it even works xD
but one more poppy then i can craft the other aspect so i can get it for medea

[somber beacon]

still didn't fix its main problem that you can't dash while charging omega attack. but it's not bad

or rather if you do dash it stops the charging

[spiral wadi]

i mean i think that's a good tradeoff

cuz oatk on helheim actually goes ridiculous

it's still a massive sacrifice in mobility but u get crazy dps for it

so good push pull i think

[somber beacon]

charon goes ridiculous damage wise and lets you dash to safety while charging omega special

[spiral wadi]

yea, i mean for hel u can still use ospec and valk if u want mobility and dps

[restive merlin]

awww i just beat strife and i got no more defiances

i might not win

[spiral wadi]

trust

[restive merlin]

38hp..

[spiral wadi]

athena renewed faith

[restive merlin]

is there a relic changing box right before typhon?

[spiral wadi]

keepsake change? yea

[restive merlin]

is sinister pinion even good?

it's a morrigan special

[spiral wadi]

nah

there's like one extremely niche use case for it but otherwise dw about it

[open rover]

Hey everyone, I’d like to know what you think about this build based on the Hestia–Hephaestus duo.
I’m using the final aspect of the Black Coat with Hephaestus on special and Hestia’s cast. I chose this weapon because, with their duo, you can leave the omega special in one spot with the cast underneath it and, once the cooldown is down to 2 seconds, Hephaestus will hit twice in the area.
For attack and dash, I’m running Poseidon and Apollo to make use of their duos with Hephaestus.

[split igloo]

duos can be hard to get due to infusions cluttering up the pool, it's not like Hades 1 where they were pretty easy to get

I wouldn't bet on getting 2 specific duos in a run

[austere trail]

nah duos are not that hard to get imo

I often get the dynamic duos victory message (unless I'm running forfeit)

[bronze flax]

I am curious about how the scaling of Dream Dive functions. Does someone have that information?

[restive merlin]

what boons/gods are good to focus on if i want to rarify/level up only two boons?

[haughty marlin]

Hey yall what are some interesting builds to try w the buffed ares boons ?

[pulsar pumice]

whats a good strat to defeat infernal beast cerbie?

[magic grove]

supay falling blades

[pulsar pumice]

i usually get down to a quarter left of his health then i die

[magic grove]

get ares dash, the new profuse bleeding, maybe cut above if you can and try to get ares/apollo and ares/heph duos. Is it a dream build? yes, but its really cool

you can also try faling blades circe with sword ring, the idea is the same

[bronze flax]

Worth adding that Coffin Nail is way more important than Cutting Edge, the immediate falling allows for multiple triggers with Profuse Bleeding/Cut Above

[restive merlin]

for skull(persephone) is heroic flame strike better than hephastus?

[final sedge]

eh... probably most of the time, but high rarity heph with poms is bonk tastic

[restive merlin]

it's just the replacment is heroic, and i was planning on getting a duo, but this will delay it

i just don't know how good scorch is

[gilded hull]

What’s a good cast build for aspect of circle besides Zeus

[final sedge]

scorch is great, and heroic is super good

[final sedge]

winners circle makes apollo fine, but winners circle or not, zeus, hestia, posidon, hephastus, even ares are decent. Only Aphro and Demeter are a little low damage unless you get like air quality to up the damage.

[bronze flax]

And even then, with JPom, Aphro one is quite good

[final sedge]

aphro does enough damage?

[bronze flax]

It has good Pom scaling, so I had no issues with it when I used it with Circe

[final sedge]

i thought it was mostly for the weak and draw in

[final sedge]

I guess that just shows Circe is great i guess

[bronze flax]

Circe is that good, yes

[final sedge]

but does Baconsalad have jpom and do jpom runs?

[restive merlin]

i don't understand persephone's aspect, sometime charge is long, sometimes normal

[alpine raft]

gains duration w olympian damage

[restive merlin]

but when exactly should i deal that dmg

[alpine raft]

you can see the charge meter on your skull ui

[restive merlin]

oh so it's chargeable

[alpine raft]

yea itll consume all the charge when you ospec

[flint widget]

OH MY GOD I JUST DID IT

[restive merlin]

can i get two duo's from the same god, but different combo?

[alpine raft]

sure if you have the requirements

[alpine raft]

4:3x?!

[flint widget]

CHECK THE VICTORY BOASTING

OH MY GOD

[verbal whale]

Crazy.

[upbeat goblet]

Just cleared the top Path for the 1st time to || Typhon ||, Is there any instakill mechanic I should be aware of? (I Just dont want to get cheesed to oblivion)

[austere trail]

no

unless it's vow of rivals typhon

[upbeat goblet]

No no, no vow of rivals yet

[austere trail]

but it's your first time so yeah

[upbeat goblet]

My only vow Active is Hubris (164 primed energy)

Is there something in the game that gives you a strong benefit to It like %stat x primed energy? Just out of curiosity, if It Is possibile to have an ultimate ungabunga build 😂

[glossy jetty]

What?

[glossy jetty]

Also things like static electricity from Zeus, trusty shield from heph, and the replenishing defiance from Athena all prime a good amount of magick

[austere trail]

no

[glossy jetty]

Wait did I misread

[austere trail]

they're asking if you can get damage based on primed magick, I think

[glossy jetty]

Oh yeah, no benefit to priming magick

Born gain would be busted if you could lmao

[upbeat goblet]

... Ok this build was disturbing. I facetanked Typhon and didnt even lose a Death Defiance.
Trick Reaper Knives with Aphrodite special on Melinoe Blades with Apollo Cast and Daze Backstab support Is obscene

[hollow stag]

Starting Night 5 with Mel Torch and there’s Rare Special Zeus to start with.

What other boons and hammers should I look for?

[timber fossil]

So I've been trying to go for a Zuess build with King's Ransom, I've rarely been able to get the duo boon itself or when I do get it it's usually really really early. I'm assuming it's better to stack up the Hera boons that DON'T count for King's Ransom and then get one that DOES count for it farther in..?

[drifting rose]

What’s an good early game build for black coat

[split igloo]

so how do you play Hel again after this update, what boons do I take, hera special + gain, what else? what the attack should be?

[upbeat goblet]

Hestia and Zeus are good on Black Coat due to the constant spam of projectiles from the attack look up for duo synergies, they can be very strong.
If you wanna play big punch build go for Apollo/Aphrodite

[split igloo]

I like poseidon attack, hera special on the default coat personally, high flat damage for punching, hitch for the rocket spam

hestia attack is good but really needs pyro technique

[glossy jetty]

Doesn't any Hestia build need pyro technique?

[drifting rose]

Alr thx

[spiral wadi]

with mel torch u get a ton of value with dmg % attack like apollo, hera, ares, etc

u can absolutely get away with things like scorch since u hit a lot, technically ignoring the crit aspect but it works

for hammers u absolutely want dividing blaze or inverted blaze, so u have some form of piercing

getting both will be nutty

i find dmg % atk and status effect spec generally goes well if ur aiming to play around both, like apollo atk zeus omega spec is good

if u hit hidden helix u can also run a dmg % special and just spam that

[haughty marlin]

Thanks dude

[pulsar pumice]

i havent gotten past eris

and ares hasnt shown up yet

[magic grove]

glad you enjoyed it

[gilded hull]

I just unlocked the Trinket today so I don’t have it leveled at the moment

[turbid karma]

I'm playing a Pan daggers run right now with a cardio gain that doesn't restore magick when my special hits. I have poseidon on the specials. Is that an expected interaction? It's my normal special, not my OSpec, I know cardio gain doesn't work with OSpec

attack regens magick as expected

I can see the white special damage showing up, so it's not absent

[solemn carbon]

I haven’t tested it but it’s not expected

Maybe the seeking behavior of pan special somehow breaks cardio gain

Is Pyro technique good?
Seems to me like it makes keeping scorch up for origination harder
Guess it depends what your other source(s) of curse are

But like. While there’s some lag time with scorch I feel like it’s usually not that bad?

[spiral wadi]

yea pyro technique rewards u for stacking scorch

it's basically a multiplier with how much it beefs up ur scorch dmg output

[somber beacon]

if youre only outputting a bit of scorch and its not your main dps, then yeah avoid pyro and keep it for activating origination. also theoretically it might make it harder to get as large of freezer burn pops, but idk if avoiding pyro for freezer burn is a legit strategy. i feel like youre making your overall dps lower just for occasional slightly bigger bursts. but i havent done tests or anything

but if you find that youre frequently hitting high scorch, even hitting the 999 cap, and/or you find yourself having to attack an enemy to finish them off even when their health bar is fully scorched, then pyro is basically mandatory. it lets you kill way faster and avoid wasting scorch to the 999 cap

like gift said, pyro gets better the better you are at applying scorch

[solemn carbon]

There is a cap on scorch?

I had no clue

[spiral wadi]

ye the cap is 999

if ur not stacking enough scorch then yea avoid pyro, otherwise it's a great option to get

[somber beacon]

i will say though, even if you arent hitting the cap, its still a nice take. faster dps is still nice. if your other attacks are killing an enemy while it still has scorch leftover, thats scorch wasted, and pyro could have gotten you that kill in less time. pyro prevents you from wasting scorch, period. the only time its bad is when having scorch sitting around doing nothing is beneficial: freezer burn and origination. but unless your build is only using scorch for origination, those two factors arent enough to make pyro a bad take IMO

theres also the boon that gives you increased dodge against scorched enemies, but again, if youre going all in on a scorch build, you should be able to outpace pyro

[opal pecan]

Oh yeah for sure, you don't need to be hitting cap to take PT

"Not enough Scorch" in this context means like, the PT is burning through your stacks so fast that you can't maintain Origination or something

[somber beacon]

ah alright, wasn't sure if that's what they meant or not. wanted to clarify either way :P

[round olive]

Question: Did the trial of haste always use thd black coat? Because I remember doing that trial in early access and having some real diffculty with it, but this time I cleanred it with a minuite to spare.

[opal pecan]

TBF lots of things have been rebalanced since early EA

[glossy jetty]

Honestly wish there was a boon or something that interacted with scorch cap, I remember capping out with Mel coat even with a rare pyro technique

[somber beacon]

i agree, i wish scorch and ares plasma were both uncapped. and to balance scorch maybe make it so that freezer burn in particular has a cap?

[glossy jetty]

Honestly if you wanted to uncap scorch and plasma you'd just need to make it harder to gain

[vernal quiver]

uncapping scorch doesnt do anything is the thing unless its freezer burn

plasma is plasma its fine how it is uncapping it again doesnt really do much, you rarely cap in a regular combat as is unless youre hard building into it

[somber beacon]

honestly, i dont even think uncapped plasma would be that OP if you didnt rebalance it. 300% attack speed would be insane, but it would only be achieveable after multiple minutes in a boss fight, and would likely require ares legendary. at that point youve earned 300% attack speed imo

[glossy jetty]

-# what does freezer burn do actually I never played w a hestia/dem build

[somber beacon]

if you freeze an enemy with scorch, it pops all the scorch at once and does like double damage or so

[vernal quiver]

removes all scorch and deals it as a 3x hit

[glossy jetty]

Oh wait that's insane

[vernal quiver]

it then goes on a kinda long cooldown

[hollow stag]

Can’t reapply scorch for a few seconds after pop

[glossy jetty]

Oh NVM that's ass

[somber beacon]

yeah XD

[vernal quiver]

its really strong

getting big 2-3k hits every couple seconds is still a lot of damage

im sure i have a 62f somewhere with it

#h2-victory-boasting message
yeah this

[somber beacon]

yeah its not ass, but the cooldown does make it not as insane as it sounds on paper. 10 seconds until you can pop it again

[hollow stag]

Sucks you can’t apply any stacks of scorch after freezer burn after a few seconds. That’s wasted dps.

[somber beacon]

thats the point, being able to exceed the cap in rare situations where you do a max plasma build would just be fun. silly builds are the cornerstone of roguelites imo

[glossy jetty]

Wait so is the scorch reapply recharge the same as the freezer burn recharge? 10 seconds?

[vernal quiver]

it doesnt take too long, plus the cd of freezer burn being able to pop and scorch being able to be reapplied arent the same so you can stack it up easily before freezer pops again

[somber beacon]

no, according to the wiki:

"Once Freezer Burn is triggered, enemies cannot apply Scorch during the Freeze effect. There is also a 10-second cooldown before Freeze can be reapplied, unless reset by Room Temperature."

so the cooldown for scorch is however long your freeze lasts. the cooldown for freezer burn is 10 seconds

[glossy jetty]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[wild drift]

The wiki may be outdated though, Room Temperature isn't even a boon anymore

[glossy jetty]

Ok base freeze is like 2 seconds that's not too bad

[vernal quiver]

yeah so its really easy to loop like >1k freezer burn hits while still getting scorch damage

[somber beacon]

lol, good point. though that feels about accurate based on my memory of recent freezer burn runs

[glossy jetty]

Definitely outdated, posiedon still has slip effects listed

[somber beacon]

true, though i often like taking extra freeze time on a demeter run

[vernal quiver]

shoutout visage nemesis straight up not working lmfao

no wonder i never feel like i have money even when i win because she actually doesnt give you the money thats awesome sgg

https://youtu.be/sqouQVEiN9U

like what is this guys i won by 7 enemies 😭

scammed out of my 100 gold that could afford me a boon at endshop 🥀

[wet olive]

Im still progressing through the game naturally but im wondering whats a good build i could use for charon axe and thanatos.

[somber beacon]

charon axe you want apollo for sure. lucid gain means infinite mana, super nova (bigger cast) is really nice to have, and prominence flare is nice. poseidon has a boon that empowers your omega cast. ares has one that gives you a blade rift in your omega cast. so i typically prioritize those 3 gods if i can find them. as for who you put on your actual cast, apollo and poseidon are both good

but generally speaking, just take apollo keepsake and its hard to mess up a charon build. apollo for magick gain, apollo on your cast, apollo for super nova and prominence flare, even get him on special if you want. just get a bunch of apollo and youll win

also, you might enjoy lightning lance (zeus) or glowing coal (hestia) which both allow you to aim and throw your cast at the enemies, which you can then explode with your omega special from a distance. i never take these just because i appreciate that the regular cast is instant and predictable, but if youre more patient and smarter at aiming than i am (you likely are) then you can get a lot of value and safety from an aimable cast

as for who to put on special, its not something i really overthink. hera is likely optimal, zeus is good because blitz is good, apollo and demeter and ares are good as well. could even make heph work if you want. aphrodite is good if you get her duo with poseidon, otherwise shes not doing much. poseidon and hestia arent the best options imo

channel speed is really useful. giga cleaver (the hammer that doubles your omega specials) is good because you can spam your cast immediately after omega specialing to drop another cast that gets instantly popped by the second o-special. apollo legendary is good. uh i think thats it XD

[solemn carbon]

Is Charon axe + ares cast good? Doesn’t the falling blade take more time than it takes to drop a new cast/omega?

[vernal quiver]

its whatever, youd much rather have posiedon or apollo

since a curse is gonna be wayyy more worthwhile than an inconsistent falling blade because keep in mind they can only have 1 blade at a time, and its easy for the enemy to move out of it since it doesnt track perfectly

the blades can be strong sure but that takes a good couple duos when you could just take pos cast + geyser spout and be significantly stronger from 2 boons alone

[solemn carbon]

yeah Apollo seems like the best Charon cast easily

[solemn carbon]

Ok am I just bad or is it sometimes impossible to dodge Prometheus flames if it goes from only one side being safe to only the opposite side unless you have either swift runner or Apollo dash? 🥲

Sometimes it feels so easy other times it feels like I literally cannot move that far in time and the only thing I can think is sprint speed

[wild drift]

Only the front of the flame has a hitbox so once it passes you can immediately start dashing

[split igloo]

you sprint half of the way then dash

[solemn carbon]

i usually dash, get half way then dash again. but maybe i should start sprinting in the safe zone and leave it without dashing?
idk i can get it like 80% of the time but occasionally get clipped running across 2 zones
the tip about the hitbox only being at the front is useful i guess running diagonally is the ideal then

[wild drift]

(from Lee Reamsnyder aka unexplainedbacn)

https://imgur.com/a/hades-2-prometheus-memory-game-3-1-3-pattern-ghmVv3E

You will always be able to make it if you dash as soon as possible

[split igloo]

can anyone tell me some optimal Hel builds?

[wild drift]

For normal Hel, Hestia Poseidon Zeus attack, Hera Zeus special

For Oattack Hel I have no idea but I guess Apollo attack

[split igloo]

so you normally don't try to channel? helheim charge seems like a strong hammer though

[wild drift]

Personally I played Hel by holding down both buttons with auto-fire on, but another standard way to play it would be to use Ospec with Valkyrie mode

I have not tried Helheim Charge after the patch but people say it's really good

[vernal quiver]

are you doing high or low fear hel

[round olive]

Got a bit of an odd question but: Does anyone here use Judgement? I used it when it came out in early access and it seemed good because you could get every arcana. But I don't know if it's actualy any good, or if i'm just lured in by wanting more powers.

...And if it is good, what arcanas should one use with it to begin with? Death Defiante for one, obviously, unless you think you are hiot stuff.

[vernal quiver]

cuz high fear its poseidon attack hera special then hope for static shock as well, low fear you can put anything on anything and itll win cuz now Oattack is real

[vernal quiver]

it sucks dont use it

[wild drift]

It will never be better than just using a normal arcana loadout, it's mostly only used for 65 fear where you have to

[vernal quiver]

why would you limit yourself so hard just to get what youd normally have but 3 regions in

only reason you should use it is 65f, and at 65f you only have 6 grasp so you tend to take strength persistence or persistence artificer + a 1 cost

youll notice like half the arcana board does nothing substantial for most weapons(i.e. sorceress/night/eternity do nothing for non omegas) and you can already access everything important and then some with a regular 30 grasp setup

[round olive]

Well, what do people use mostly then?

[vernal quiver]

like for a full arcana setup?? or a non 65 judgment

[round olive]

Both, why not, this IS the builds area after all

[vernal quiver]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/ArcanaDeck/?deck=WyJjMyIsImM1IiwiYzYiLCJjNyIsImM4IiwiYzEwIiwiYzExIiwiYzEyIiwiYzEzIiwiYzE0IiwiYzE1IiwiYzE3IiwiYzE4IiwiYzI0Il0=
thats your general best use for non magic stuff, death and strength interchangable ofc and no wayward son cuz im assuming scars3

if you are doing magic you can just drop huntress and night for sorceress and eternity

[round olive]

I get hit a lot and use god mode, so death will probably get me further then strengh

[vernal quiver]

theeen judgment is 5 arcana need to be active yeah??

i dont play with it enough to remember

ahh no its 3 nvm

then take orig, furies, and death/strength

or you could do without death/strength and take boatman/artificer and just assume youll get one later

this is also assuming fates whim, if you arent running whim then it changes a bit for the reroll corner

[mystic mango]

Judgement requires at least 1 arcana to be active but max 5 but if you're playing judgement you might as well just go all the way and do void 3 with the 7 card jpom start

So you can't get scammed out of any arcana

But the early safety of the meta arcana is nice

[vernal quiver]

no judgment only turns on with 3 or less arcana

[mystic mango]

Typo

[vernal quiver]

im looking at it rn so 😭

[mystic mango]

Meant to say 3

[vernal quiver]

lol, but yeah judgment runs are just kinda weird since you start weaker than a normal run just to end up as strong as a 30 grasp start

[mystic mango]

I know it's 3 just said wrong thing I just woke up cause my cat barfed on my bed so going back to sleep here soon just checked my phone

[vernal quiver]

also unrelated but shoutout me being rusty and getting to cerb on a 67 😌

[round olive]

So what gets upgraded for the card then, if it's not amount of arcana you can hold, and if you end up about as strong as usual anyway

[mystic mango]

Also 0 cards do not count as activated cards

So you can activate moon and divinity by filling the right collumn using night and lovers then pick another 1-grasp arcana

[vernal quiver]

the upgrades for it is how many arcana activate per region, base level is 3 and max is 5, and yeah its weird since that no mana setup i sent earlier activates 14/25 arcana

[mystic mango]

You get 5 per region so if you use fates' whim to ban reroll arcana then you end up with nearly all or all arcana by the end

[vernal quiver]

and judgment cant roll into reroll arcana unless you break whim so like its more like 14/22

and those last 8 arent taken cuz they arent worth it anyway

[mystic mango]

7 + 5x3 is 22 arcana which is everything but the rerolls

Which yeah can't be rolled if FW is active

So you end the run as strong or stronger than a normal run

[vernal quiver]

actually more like 14/21 i forgot to not count judgment lol

so you already have 2/3 of the table and thats basically all that matters

[mystic mango]

(But also get forced to use eternity 🤮 )

[round olive]

So it does make you stronger is the concensus, but by the time you reach the end there's not much point?

[mystic mango]

I love being forced to lose time when going for omega setups on bosses and enemies

[mystic mango]

It's so you can use vow of void

Thats the whole point

[wild drift]

Not really, there's always a chance that you don't actually get the good cards by the end unless you go for the crazy 1 card + Night + Lovers strat

[mystic mango]

65F is Void 3 so you're forced to use judgement arcana

67F is no arcana at all

[vernal quiver]

it doesnt really make you stronger, because say youre playing circe staff, a non mana weapon, you dont care for night, unseen, eternity, sorceress, wayward(scars3), excellence which takes that 14/21 that we already take into 14/15 of what can actually do something

[mystic mango]

If you want to run judgement and enjoy it it's 3 fear levels

[round olive]

Oh I see. so it's only really useful with one specific vow use.

[mystic mango]

We love forcibly being unable to use huntress ❤️

[vernal quiver]

true!

and im forgetting to also say queen doesnt matter since it doesnt so you actually have 14/14 of what youd want anyway, judgment does nothing besides make you weak at the start and put in rng into getting what you couldve started with

[mystic mango]

Pretty much since some arcana actively make others unuseable or can ruin time, such as mixing huntress with unseen, and eternity existing

[vernal quiver]

its existence is exclusively 65f or that get the entire arcana board active prophecy

[mystic mango]

Eternity actively makes you lose time due to not being able to buffer omegas during enemy spawns or for when bosses come of invuln

It's ass and is only used by new players who need it for safety (like I did when I was new and realized how stupid it kinda was after swearing by it for a while)

[vernal quiver]

or you never play a mana weapon and its useless to take anyway lol

[mystic mango]

I play a lot of magick weapons

[vernal quiver]

i genuinely havent touched the mana arcana in ages

[mystic mango]

But unseen is still worthless

[vernal quiver]

but thats also a consequence of 62f+ where mana becomes painful to make viable

[wild drift]

I know some high fear people use Eternity on Charon and The Morrigan but that's it I think

[mystic mango]

I wish I won my 62 Eos surface it was so good

[wild drift]

If Eos got the Eternity slowdown on charging Oattack I would use Eternity with it

[round olive]

All of you going on about 62 fear builds meanwhile I've only beat chronos once and thyphon never. (I did beat chronos a lot in EA tho)

[mystic mango]

Only because Charon kinda sucks at high fear due to the reliance on omegas and needing eternity for safety

[wild drift]

Cause it would kinda lessen the high need for Sudden Burst

[vernal quiver]

yeah its cuz high fear really influences what can be taken and when people ask about whats good and whats not thats kinda the lens we have to go at it with, if you arent doing 45+ literally do whatever anything works

[mystic mango]

I mean basically everything in the game is viable up to like 40 fear with a relatively average knowledge of the game and decent motor function

You can get hard carried by the game until you turn on pain and scars

[vernal quiver]

only at like 50+ can we really start calling things bad like with 100% seriousness and even then every weapon has done 65 and all but 3 have done 67

[mystic mango]

Pain and scars are when you have to actually give a damn

And rivals for that matter

[vernal quiver]

unless we talk high fear dream dive in which we arent even sure if 67f for that is possible 🥀

[mystic mango]

We love uber-buffed chronos and scylla cause they weren't already insanely hard enough

Ah yes he totally needed 1.5x health and 1.2x damage and 1.2x healing

[vernal quiver]

yeah going from 65f dream dive to 67f uw felt like night and day, i can actually kill things reasonably with no boons on 67f uw

[mystic mango]

More reason why deep dissent is basically mandatory

[vernal quiver]

like i made it to scylla with like 3 boons on uw 67 😭 65 dream dive if i dont hit my build out of fields i just lose

[vernal quiver]

but no gigaros means a slow ass start

[mystic mango]

I mean getting it in dream tart

[vernal quiver]

ahh ig yeah

ideally you dodge him alltogether though

[mystic mango]

Final chamber dad can happen but yeah

[vernal quiver]

blessed route of fields -> erebus/ephyra -> erebus/ephyra -> thessaly 🙏

[mystic mango]

We love ending on easy ass bosses that got nerfed despite being bottom 3

Though rivals eris with no lovers is rough

But you wantler anyways

(JK screw wantler thessaly that sounds horrible)

Getting bum rushed by thessaly skulls and dodging giant anchors sounds atrocious

[wild drift]

Yo go back to sleep already lol

You're gonna be having nightmares of Thessaly boats

[mystic mango]

Fineeeeeee

I have nightmares of Charybdis not the boats

[vernal quiver]

well yeah but do you wanna do olympus, summit, tart, or sirens 😭

summit is fine ig but chronos can just kill you

[mystic mango]

Yeah chronos is a rat in that fight lol

I did wantler ephyra R4 and died on pain 0

Those enemies are fast as hell

Speed scaling enemies to Frenzy 4 is insane

[gloomy wind]

Hi. Just found a weird inconsistency with Apollo's legendary. In the codex it says the attack and special Omega fires 2 times but I just got it and it only says attack. Which is correct?

[wild drift]

You probably have Extra Dose and not the legendary which is called Exceptional Talent

[gloomy wind]

Nope

Exceptional talent

[viral yew]

What is the exact wording on the boon

[gloomy wind]

I have pictures but cannot post here

In the codex it says "Your O Attack and O Special fire 2 times, but use more Magick" and on the actual boon "Your O Attack fires 2 times, but use more Magick"

[solemn carbon]

Is the go to strat for Mel coat to just never use omega attack

[solemn carbon]

You have the torches right?

[gloomy wind]

Torches yes

[solemn carbon]

That’s I think only true on torches. They don’t double the torch omega special like they do on other weapons

[gloomy wind]

Mel torches

[solemn carbon]

and they altered the boon specifically for torches for some reason

[gloomy wind]

Thank you for this

[solemn carbon]

if you get exceptional talent on a different weapon it will double the special too I think

[wild drift]

Oh I knew about that but didn't know it actually changed the tooltip wow

[viral yew]

Huh well TIL

[gloomy wind]

This is my first example of a tooltip changing based on aspect

Are there any other notable ones?

[solemn carbon]

I can’t think of any others off the top of my head

[viral yew]

I'd say probably not

[solemn carbon]

is stutter step a good boon

In hades 1 I would have said 100% yes

[viral yew]

It's fine, I never really take it cause muscle memory

[solemn carbon]

but I don’t dash attack chain in this game the way I did in hades 1

Maybe on fists it would be good cause the dash attack is 🤌

Does explosive intent (o moves do a 50dmg explosion) trigger multiple times on multi hit o moves?

Like on coat special, dagger special, torches etc

[split igloo]

alright thanks, poseidon + hera makes sense
though I wonder if you can make an Ares build on Hel

[drifting rose]

What’s an good moon axe build

[viral yew]

apollo attack, zeus special

[drifting rose]

Ty

[solemn carbon]

I unironically think time slowdowns in the game should also slow down the in game clock for this reason

or like. slow down spawned enemies and projectiles only

[mystic mango]

If they slowed down timer they would be absolute S tier mandatory to IGT speedrunning and a very dishonest strategy but then would be an ineffective strat for RTA

And having those two conflict just doesn’t sit right

Allowing slowdowns to affect game timer would fundamentally make them required to even compete on timer in some cases

[flint widget]

and the fact that u have to reset every time u dont get like phase shift as ur hex (if ur aiming for a pb)

straight up not a good idea

[mystic mango]

Yeah hammer RNG already sucks enough

Like I get the sentiment but the ability to slow down a game timer makes anything that doesn’t slow down a timer inherently harder and worse

Would you really feel like you achieved more than the person next to you if the timer you played on ran at half speed but you were still doing things at the same pace. Or losing a record just because you kept time slow active for 3 seconds less than somebody else

Oh no @flint widget you didn’t get a 4:19 you got a 4:22 because you activated phase shift too late a few times

So sorry

[flint widget]

https://giphy.com/gifs/graggletwo-homelander-meme-what-is-he-talking-about-7DbgjlgPaqkxoX4fOy

[mystic mango]

I’m just saying how horrible phase shift meta would feel

[flint widget]

yeah im aware

[mystic mango]

Look the gifs are hard to tell sometimes

In your own words, I’m pretty sure, I’m an unc lol

[solemn carbon]

So your main problem with eternity is it slows spawns right

cause it doesn’t slow down your actual time to cast the omega right

[mystic mango]

Your omega still takes the same time to use

The IGT is the same

It still just slows down enemies not YOU

[solemn carbon]

so it makes your omega safer without changing the time at all

but since it slows down enemy spawns that is a problem

[mystic mango]

But it also makes enemies not move towards you and slows down spawns and slows down bosses

Enemy movement is important to narrow down encounters

If you can take advantage of fast enemies it can save time

[solemn carbon]

yeah like grouping them onto eachother etc

[mystic mango]

If they will chase you across a room then you can save time on chasing them

So eternity makes that worse. Safety isn’t much of a concern with speed

[solemn carbon]

It also feels terrible if eternity activates and your using Artemis knives

[mystic mango]

Yep so you end up just standing there waiting longer for parry if you mistime even slightly

[solemn carbon]

like if I play judgement and get eternity on Artemis I just would rather restart the run lol

[mystic mango]

I mean you’re GONNA get it

[solemn carbon]

but the enemy and you need to make eye contact and play western music first

[mystic mango]

Even if you took the 5 card start you’d have a pretty high chance of getting it

lol yeah

[solemn carbon]

Yeah but ideally in the 4 biome

[mystic mango]

But yeah IGT slowdown would mean you would have to meta-optimize phase shift to perfectly align with enemy spawns and boss patterns

And that’s so lame

It would inherently make magick weapons the meta on principle alone

[solemn carbon]

Maybe if eternity and phase shift just didn’t affect spawn speed?

[mystic mango]

If they didn’t affect spawn animations that would be nice but then that’s a different way to abuse it

There has to be a drawback to free safety

If you slow down some stuff you have to slow down everything but can’t make the ability to slow things down also make the game faster

[solemn carbon]

IMO they should give the effective of The Sorceress to eternity, maybe stronger slightly

and then change sorceress to be something like O moves useless magic or something

[mystic mango]

Ehhhhhh but then some weapons become unplayable without eternity

Magick is a commodity on the right gains

[solemn carbon]

Or like O moves refund you half the cost over 2 seconds or something

I agree that having an arcana card with slow down is just inherently bad

[solemn carbon]

Same could be said for sorceress now right

[mystic mango]

You don’t need an arcana for it, you already have unseen and that arcana is utter garbage

[mystic mango]

Yes but forcing a weapon to use a time slow to be playable makes it feel like crap

[solemn carbon]

Tbh the idea I just had about refunding is probably just flat out better than unseen, if you run huntress or torches

I’m saying remove time slow and just give it better improved speed on O move charging

[mystic mango]

The only magick buff the game needs is making unseen not cost 5 grasp

That’s it. Everything else is fine as is

[solemn carbon]

I wouldn’t take unseen if it was 1 grasp lol

on most builds

[mystic mango]

I would who needs wayward healing when I’m playing Eos and can have free magick for 1 grasp

Unseen is only utter garbage cause it deactivates huntress if you’re not spending enough magick and still costs 5 grasp

Taking any gain in R1 other than tough gain is better than unseen

[solemn carbon]

it deactivates huntress basically any time you have built into using huntress, and any time you’re mana-spamming you’re not getting the boon of unseen anymore because it doesn’t charge while you’re attacking

if unseen kept giving you mana while you were channelling, then I would pick it on every magic build