h2-builds-and-combat

[viral yew]

Artemis isn't olympian, the other two are

[flint widget]

no what i meant was they are more like npcs not gods, they dont have a rarify keepsake

[viral yew]

I think they meant why ares dem and aphro were chosen over them from the first game

[flint widget]

oh mb

[hidden briar]

i just learned that volatile array can trigger possesed array which is kinda funny

[flint widget]

OH MY GOD

7:26 50 FEAR UNDERWORLD

[tall notch]

I'm happy when i reach sirens at 7:26

What do you mean you cleared the whole thing in 7:26

[mint cedar]

When blitz triggers on an enemy with one other curse, does it gain the effects of origination

[flint widget]

im exporting the vod rn ill show u the madness that run was

turned down parray for colossus driver cuz i didnt have enough magick plus no suitable gain

🔥

i had aphro special so it was warranted tbh

[tall notch]

Medea players need to be studied, y'all are too fast

[flint widget]

only time im not fast is when im playing surface, then i get offered charybdis, big ass boats, and only circe as a skip 🔥

[median anvil]

well it's with the speedrun specific 50 fear setup that runs hordes0

[flint widget]

not to mention how slow olympus is

[flint widget]

also this was first try

i rage quitted sub 6 surface cuz too much charybdis appearances

[sterile ether]

I actually thought that this choice of theirs was massively beneficial. I played Hades 2 before playing Hades 1, and my theory is that they made Artemis, Athena, and Dionysus 1-off NPCs both to increase their importance/character interaction and because their boon pools were some of the least interesting/one-note. Artemis is mostly just crit, Athena is mostly deflect with a dash of death defiance (which Hades 2 has an alternate for), and Dionysus is mostly a dot which is a concept represented more diversely and interestingly by the other gods in Hades 2.

I'm not ragging on those gods, I just think getting a single boon from them allows you to condense their flavor without diluting it, where in Hades 1 their boon spreads were a bit of a stretch in a lot of ways. Also, making them NPCs you actually see in person, while making them technically rarer, makes them feel much more involved and interesting in the story. It feels great to have a room wiped by Athena, to be backed-up by Artemis, or take a little break with Dionysus.

I really liked their decision, because I think it let them maximize the juice they got out of their three rather thin god pools, while also ramping up the connection to what were three of the most favorite gods from the original narratively. They killed two birds with one stone by improving the game both narratively and mechanically, in my estimation.

[alpine raft]

do any %money increases boost boatman when it turns on

[opal pecan]

I know for sure Quick Buck does increase Charon's keepsake

But Boatman was a one-time thing, so I'm assuming that anything that's like "money you earn" or whatever wouldn't be retroactive

Unless maybe you're talking Judgment/Figurine/Circe

[alpine raft]

yea of course

[lone quartz]

goys what build do i get for eos

[frank siren]

The last sentence sums it up nicely. Dio doesnt care about the typhon threat, Athena is too busy with the threat, and Artemis is the only god who knew mel existed because of her role

[surreal hazel]

They reworked a lotnof the gods from 1 to 2, they could have done the same for athena, artemis and dio. The question is if there waz enough design space to be worth making 15 more cores, 24 tier 2 boons,3 new legendaries and 33 more duo boons

[odd bolt]

Hera special goes nuts

Or on hit effects, scorch/pos

[lone quartz]

i went for aph attack and poseidon special

[surreal hazel]

On hit is for eos special

[lone quartz]

seems to work good

[surreal hazel]

Aphrodite has no business on eos, honestly

"Close" always refers to distance to mel herself, not the daybreaker

[lone quartz]

its fine i got island getaway

[surreal hazel]

Okay fair

Bit of a gamble but hey

[lone quartz]

i feel like hestia attack then hera special and cardio gain with their duo boon would go incredibly hard

[spiral wadi]

i prefer hera atk hestia spec because of how many specials u have out

and daybreaker benefits more from % dmg

[flint widget]

i prefer hera attack zeus special

since it doesnt need any more boons to feel good

tho double strike and static shock are nice little additions

[vernal quiver]

Zeus attack/hera special is my goto

Hera special turns the entire screen green and everything dies

[jaunty acorn]

Hmm that makes sense for the narrative interaction. But why specifically these three I mean? Like you said artemis is mostly for just crits, athena for defence and Dionysus for dot and these effects are somewhat being covered by other gods. But why did they allow Ares from Hades 1 to hades 2 but with a different boon set wound. I mean I get it doom role is being fulfilled by blitz so they changed his core boons effect to wound. But they could also done this with Athena or Artemis with different boon sets as well? So why specifically Ares? Why not any of the three?

[alpine raft]

im struggling to think of a theme those 3 could have for their cores that isnt the same as h1. what else could artemis really do besides crit

[opal pecan]

Support Fire is her one non-crit thing innit

[spiral wadi]

duo farms

me when every boon is epic

[sterile ether]

None of us are SuperGiant employees, so it is all purely speculative, but I imagine it was the cross-over between fan-favorite/narrative story rich characters and shallow boonpools. Artemis, Athena, and Dionysus were all popular and beloved characters from Hades 1, but they all also had relatively shallow boon pool game design space. Aphrodite and Ares were not as popular gods as characters, and they probably felt that they could spend their limited development time and energy on those two god pools and take the other three and turn them into NPCs you meet. This way they didn't have to spend too much time revamping their boon pools and getting a single boon from each/any of them in a run could be a rare add-on thing which hides how thematically and gamedesign space limited their areas of focus are/were.

One thing I noticed was that Aphrodite, Athena, and Dionysus all shared the "% damage mitigation" mechanic, Aphro with weak, bronze skin for Athena, and positive outlook for Dionysus. By making Athena and Dionysus NPC one off boon givers in 2, that gives Aphrodite a bigger monopoly on % damage reduction, without diluting the mechanic across multiple deities. If you are familiar with Magic the Gathering at all, you could look at it like the color pie, where making each color, or God in this case, having a more definitive, carved out identity, makes them stand out more strongly to the players.

As for Ares, frankly, I don't understand how he was treated in either game. Having the god of war be either subjectively or objectively the worst deity in both games is one of the few real strikeouts of design for the Hades series in my opinion. As a game series which is a combat-based rogue-like, one would assume Ares would be one of, if not the best god at assisting you in your tasks. Maybe they didn't want to be too on the nose about it? If there is a third Hades game, I would want Ares to be a one-off boon giver, but make them more powerful. My 2 cents.

[median anvil]

Athena's was actually because she was too strong in the first game. a ridiculously high number of casuals always started athena keepsake to take her dash boon. making her a one boon per run god was imo a balance decision more than a story decision

[surreal hazel]

She's also the first god you meet and she's far too transformative of how you play the game to take that position

Apollo by comparison is far more straightfoward and easily the best choice for an opening god

[sterile ether]

That is interesting about Athena. As someone who played Hades 2 first and is a Strength enjoyer, I don't have a super high opinion of Athena and usually don't find her boons generally helpful in 2. However, in Hades 2 they definitely turned down the bullet hell aspect of Hades 1 and also took away your ability to destroy projectiles. When I started playing Hades 1 I could see why deflect was a favorite, but I never felt it was mandatory or took it preferentially. I can see how they would want to take her out of the full pool though, if she had that polarizing and monopolizing of an effect on player preference.

[surreal hazel]

Divine Dash in particular is a boon that does everything you want and basically doesn't care for poms or rarity

[sterile ether]

And as someone who played 2 first, I took it and said "this was my brother's favorite?". But due to the shift in game design, it sucks much more in 2, but that still at least partially biased me against it in 1.

[surreal hazel]

yeah, it's definitely like that

when everyone first saw that it was in two and layered on top of your main rush boon, we all thought it was busted as hell

but now? Athena has some busted stuff, but it ain't that

Renewed Faith and Stalwart Defiance are wooooah

[sterile ether]

As a Strength enjoyer Defensive Posture is really her only boon that gives me value, but damn it is a lot of value.

[scarlet ferry]

I know that for Chronos, Moros Pin keeps you alive if you beat a phase during the 10 seconds. How does it work for Typhon?

Do I take Tooth or Pin?

[vernal quiver]

Pin, iirc it might treat it the same for when zeus shows up?? Not sure though

[spiral wadi]

only typhon's fake defeat counts to stop pin

[scarlet ferry]

ty

So I guess Tooth is better

[spiral wadi]

so completing babality still causes pin to run, this is also true if vow of time has gotten ur ass u'll still lose 5hp/sec during the cutscene

iirc for chronos pin works from p2 to p3 but timer still runs in that for some ungodly reason so vow of time prob chips hp

i mean i'd still go pin cuz

10 seconds of raw dps

[opal pecan]

Mental Block is pretty nice! And Righteous Pike is great on high-magick-use aspects

[proper cloak]

I highly doubt the Gods are intentionally made to be stronger or weaker than one another

[scarlet ferry]

Yeah last run I had pin on Chronos. Finished phase 2 during the 10 seconds. You dont get the pin refreshed for phase 3 though. You jsut get the 60 hp and don't lose a DD

[proper cloak]

At most god synergies might be balanced somewhat story-like

Like Zeus chain lightning + Hera hitch is a match made in heaven, in story too

[keen bluff]

whats optimal good pool for circe?
id assume zeus, hera, dem and heph if youre gonna go white antler?

[vernal quiver]

yeah exactly

zeus attack and cast, hera special and hereditary bane, snow queen and trusty shield are just goated as is

aim for melting swipe and shimmering moonshot as hammers, dual is still strong but has less value because of it not being mel staff

[opal pecan]

Shimmering Moonshot Hera special makes me scream like a metalhead in a mosh pit

[keen bluff]

do you also want born gain?

[vernal quiver]

gains dont matter

circe fundamentally is a no magic weapon

you play it like mel staff with 2 casts

[opal pecan]

Well, if you get Mirrored.... but then you'd want Cardio, I suppose

[bronze flax]

And if you are somehow spending a lot of magick with Circe, Lucid is cool, two casts means double the recovery

[surreal hazel]

For what difference that makes

Do you even have 200 spent mana to recover without casting at any point during that time?

[bronze flax]

Does it make a difference in terms on how much you spend? Eh, probably not
But you're already casting a lot, so it's not like it changes your gameplan if you add Lucid Gain

[opal pecan]

I guess it could make a difference if you get Incandescent Aura

[digital juniper]

gain boon on circe is a non-worry unless you hit something like mirrored or incandescent or the like

or you go grisly/glamour for the side benefit

[opal pecan]

We love a side benefit

[fiery kraken]

incandescent aura? but how are you spending mana?

[digital juniper]

or you hit both mirrored and incandescent and hit cardio gain

[fiery kraken]

(without mirrored)

[digital juniper]

depending on hammer, oattacks can be decent on circe

[surreal hazel]

Mirrored doesn't spend it that fast

[digital juniper]

i mean you’re still constantly regenerating no?

[surreal hazel]

Since you're doing a hestia hera duo. I guess highroll fine line and controlled burn

Problem is is that hitch requirement

You want to hitch everything before doing your mana gain, but hitching everything is usually a room clear anyway

[scarlet ferry]

Why on Earth did Supergiant even make Wide Grin? Doesn't work with 3/4 of the aspects

[vernal quiver]

cuz its funny

[scarlet ferry]

Would go crazy if with Medea each skull was counted as the last skull lol

Mel* not Medea

[surreal hazel]

It's like a knowledge check

It looks so great on paper

And it actually can be made to work, even with mel skul

But it's weird

[scarlet ferry]

Goes against Mel Skull's whole gimmick
Does nothing on Medea
Can you even get it on Hel?

[vernal quiver]

no lol

only like mild application is it can ramp up your olympian damage for persephone ig

[scarlet ferry]

Yeah it can actually be used on Persephone 😍

Lmao

[opal pecan]

Does anyone know off the top of their head what HP threshold Chronos needs to hit in phase 2 in order to cancel the first red instakill?

I was reflecting on it and I realized, I sometimes race him to the instakill if he's close to death, because "0 HP" is an obvious marker for me to hit, but I basically never try it on the first instakill cos I'm a weenie and I don't know exactly what visual cue to aim for on the HP bar

[viral yew]

Rivals or normal

[opal pecan]

Normal (see prev point re: weenie)

[viral yew]

You need to get him to half health

[opal pecan]

Oof, okay 👍

Hm.... I'm not sure if I can visually "judge" my DPS that fast

I guess I could risk it if I still have Lovers (I almost never have Lovers left for phase 2 lmao)

[viral yew]

Unless I really need the timesave I only go for it if I have lovers or armour

[opal pecan]

That's entirely fair. I should remember about armor too.

[fiery kraken]

yeah I never go for it unless I have a ton of confidence I'lll get it

[opal pecan]

Someone else's comment about boredly waiting in the circle reminded me, but I guess I am still gonna be stuck in "boredly waiting in the circle"-land 😆

[viral yew]

Sometimes you're just a fraction off and get chonked

[opal pecan]

I've even misjudged the pace for the killing blow before, and that one's easier

[scarlet ferry]

Would ya'll pick Whirling Helix or Furious Blaze as your first hammer for Eos?

[spiral wadi]

personally whirling

[scarlet ferry]

That's what I'm thinking

[spiral wadi]

ur mainly wanting to get daybreaker out not ur attacks

[opal pecan]

I love Furious Blaze on torches generally speaking, but on Eos, it's definitely the Helices

[scarlet ferry]

I have Apollow attack and Aphro special btw. Both purple 😫

[opal pecan]

Or... well, I guess you can't have Hidden on Eos 😔

Imagine tho

[spiral wadi]

not allowed to have fun

[scarlet ferry]

Hoping I get slow cooker cause I have Hestia in the pool

lmao just got it

Omg now epic Weed Killer 😩

[opal pecan]

Hey folks Nexus Rush https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3eUdCniBU

[scarlet ferry]

https://imgur.com/a/l894WhD
Solid Eos build coming out of Thesally

[alpine raft]

aphro special on eos kinda freaky

[scarlet ferry]

Had slow cooker so it worked out

The omega special did 103k damage by the end

[lone quartz]

o the daybreaker counts as an omega attack?

[scarlet ferry]

Of course

[lone quartz]

very gud very gud

[opal pecan]

Inspired by LuckyDragon, I attempted GCA. It promptly gave me DDs three tries in a row, and it felt Bad.

Not sure if I have the gumption to reroll until it gives me arcana+vows I can roll with

[digital juniper]

GCA?

ah great chaos above

[opal pecan]

Aye aye capn

[spark crown]

Why was god mode on at the start of this good run T_T (wait i didnt get hit anyway 🔥 )

thessely boat with heracles into icarus T_T

[surreal hazel]

Party Boat!

Icarus saw big man jumping vertically upwards

[flint widget]

oh ur the dude who commented on my sub 5

[spark crown]

https://www.twitch.tv/metal_maniac431/clip/ConfidentPlausibleTubersMcaT-k7aWtroDURwsHxuh T_T

[surreal hazel]

sniped

[manic shuttle]

use your cast and take cover in surroundings bro

[spark crown]

i was hit by miasma then sniped so i couldnt dodge

[manic shuttle]

yea but you were still trying to shoot the turret

[jaunty acorn]

Hey guys when did you unlock the insights into offering in Hades 2?

[viral yew]

Oh about 2 years ago

[flint widget]

7 months ago

perks of being an ea player

[jaunty acorn]

I mean Like how far into the game. Like after 20 hours into the game or like very early, mid or at end.

[viral yew]

Early-Mid

You need to give nectar to each Olympian afaik

[tough stone]

Hey guys, trying to finish my last prophecies. What's the quickest way to find missing enchantments from Daedalus on weps? Trials?

[flint widget]

luck

[tall notch]

Spam Ephyra and die after you get the hammer

[tough stone]

I realise now that I probably asked in the wrong channel. Ty @flint widget

[tough stone]

Haha, that's a good one. Ty

[tall notch]

Yw!

[tough stone]

Got any suggestion for getting Chant too? 😄

[tall notch]

I think Chaos is more likely to show up Underworld but I'm not sure

[tough stone]

So maybe like underworld + refresh every shop

and early duo boon?

[tall notch]

Oh yeah refresh shops for the free chaos once you get your duo

And before you ask, I'm not sure if Chaos egg can give it to you

May be something worth looking into? In case it does

[tough stone]

I think it can unless its been changed

if you have the elem

[viral yew]

It can

[surreal hazel]

But only if you have aether

It also has a funni bug

[tall notch]

Does that count for the prophecy though?

As i think that's what @tough stone wants it for

[surreal hazel]

probably?

[median anvil]

it can

[tough stone]

Yeah the prophecy. And I think fastest way to farm different daed enchantments is spawn upper + go in 2 rooms and check if there are any hammers + reroll 10 times

[surreal hazel]

The bug is because boons/infusions cannot exactly be "upgraded"

or rather, if any stat change happens to a boon, it basically deletes itself and adds a copy with the new stats

[median anvil]

it does

[surreal hazel]

if any Chant boon gets upgraded by gaining or losing aether, you lose the prefix

your Transcendent Chant becomes just.... Chant

[median anvil]

get a duo in erebus and take embryo in oceanus

[tall notch]

Chant

[surreal hazel]

and amusingly this means that the embryo stops seeing it

so when 8 rooms cycle, the embryo tries to remove Transcendant Chant, fails to find it, and then does nothing

[tall notch]

That's so sick

[surreal hazel]

yeah, it's usually positive

[tall notch]

If you lose all of your aether will chant just disappear?

[surreal hazel]

no

it just becomes a version that gives you a glorious +0% omega damage

just like any infusion

[tall notch]

That sounds so peak

[surreal hazel]

it is just an infusion, just one with rarity levels defined

[tough stone]

lol

[surreal hazel]

Sadly the embryo doesn't still give you a new transcendent something since the logic does seem to care that it removed the old transcendent boon first

[tough stone]

Thats a funny interaction

[surreal hazel]

weird lil bug in the infusion upgrade function that doesn't check for name prefixes to carry them over

Infusions are a bit of a bodge as well, technically

they're coloured like they're a special "infusion" rarity, when this is just a lie

they're common boons

Which, unless they've fixed this, gives this curious irony that Proper Upbringing almost hard-locks you out of seeing infusions later in that run

unless the god offering literally runs out of other offerings to fill the slots

[tough stone]

ive had that happen, didnt know that was why

[surreal hazel]

Basically if a god runs out of boons to offer, the rules forcing rarity get ignored and you start seeing infusions and sacrifice boons to fill up all three options

(Duos and Legendaries still have to pass their chance roll to appear even in this instance)

[tough stone]

oohhh

[surreal hazel]

earlier on in EA, this wasn't the case

and you could use the vow of forfeit to rapidly force duos and legendaries

making the "difficulty increasing" vow actually a beneficial one

This also means that Excellence severely reduces the amount of infusions you'll see offered

[fiery kraken]

Why would proper upbringing lock out infusions?

[surreal hazel]

Because infusions are common rarity

and they have no rare version, and proper upbringing stops common boons appearing

[odd bolt]

infusions being common makes so much sense, but thats a funny interaction

[surreal hazel]

Amusingly and conversely, "Ordinary" chaos curses therefore allow infusions to appear, since they're commons

[odd bolt]

Also they dont prime any magic with hubris right?

[surreal hazel]

nope

Proper upbringing might, since that was/is a rare infusion by definiton, but that might have been fixed

[flint widget]

third day of sub 6 surface grind to no success again

damn game keeps giving me legendary ephyra exits

followed with 3:0x-3:1x thessaly exits are we deadass

[surreal hazel]

wait, proper upbrigning doesn't have a rarity function defined at all. huh

I guess it's because it's one of those weird boons that has no numerical effect to have a multiplier on

(Even more stupidly, if somehow you could add pom levels to infusions, the results would be more than a bit broken)

since the infusion's scaling value would be multiplied by the current level

Slow cooker adding 40 power to everything? Sure. Air quality setting a minimum damage to 200? why not?

Wispy wiles would turn Mel into Neo

[odd bolt]

I hate Thessaly so so much

By far the worst region in the game so many things can go wrong

[flint widget]

like bro i literally had like a legendary 1:17 ephyra exit

[surreal hazel]

The pirates are here to steal your time

yarr

[flint widget]

and then game screws me over with 3:15 thessaly 🔥

ah yes give me god trial, big ass boats on almost every chamber, and only circe as a skip

exactly what i want

at least i didnt get charybdis

[surreal hazel]

I wonder if I could make a seed generator or other mod that only gave awful speedrun region generation so everyone could compare on that

no midshops, no NPCs, awful room layouts, the worst ephyra rooms scattered to the four corners

hippos and land dracons everywhere

[digital juniper]

i mean there have been atleast specific recreations of a seed already done, no clue about seed generation

Hippo created a “dream surface run” for Foolish with a few specific things (all NPCs, no 3 encounter boats, things of the like) and Lilli was able to both recreate Foolish’s sub 4 seed 1:1 and also create the theoretical best seed possible (both room and boom rng)

[fiery kraken]

OH I didn't know that it increased them going forward too, I thought it was just when you got it

[surreal hazel]

Forces all boon choices to never include commons unless Ordinary curse is in play

which, ironically, leads to the scenario where you can get commons after getting proper upbringing that won't get upgraded to rare unless you somehow deactivate proper upbringing and reactivate it again

[fiery kraken]

good to know

[surreal hazel]

Also, since we're here, Hera will refuse to offer Uncommon Grace if you have any boons that will deactivate it

so I guess that's one way that Infusions aren't like commons

[fiery kraken]

haha here's uncommon grace opps it deactivates itself

[surreal hazel]

It ignores itself for counting common rarity boons

and also ignores Hades

[fiery kraken]

question- for the hermes that gives you dodge based on number of boons, what counts as a boon?

everything in the list (it says I have 17 in the upper corner)? or just olympian gods + npc rooms? do hammers/hex count?

[surreal hazel]

Olympian gods and Hades

Boons are from Gods

Hades is a god, but he's not an olympian (So Extended Family doesn't care for him)

but Hasty Retreat should

wait no, it says olympian boon count in this script

so probably not hades, apparently

[fiery kraken]

so circe/narc don't count? But athena & artemis & dio do?

[surreal hazel]

basically

[digital juniper]

yeah that # in the upper left corner can be deceiving because it counts NPC blessings and selene nodes

[surreal hazel]

Olympus gives more olympians, who knew?

[fiery kraken]

I kind of wish there were helptips that does that calculation for you in the corner of the boon or something

[digital juniper]

if you hover over hasty retreat does it not show you how much dodge it provides?

since for some boons that get dynamically updated it does show it

[fiery kraken]

it does when you have it but I don't think I noticed when I was choosing it

[digital juniper]

ah as if before you pick it up

[fiery kraken]

but I could be wrong on that

[surreal hazel]

it doesn't when you're choosing it

nor does Extended Family, annoyingly

[digital juniper]

see extended i mind less because in most scenarios you can just multiply your value by 4

or it’s that you know how many gods you have in your pool

[fiery kraken]

yeah

[digital juniper]

with HR it’s more tedious

[surreal hazel]

5, don't forget Hermes

And it can also go nuts with Hera's legendary

[digital juniper]

oh yeah i forgot about hermes

[surreal hazel]

It's possible to get 10 olympians in a run without using keepsakes to force more

wait, more

[fiery kraken]

I've definitely had random boon in shop with echo's "get free copy" get me to 5 core gods

[surreal hazel]

5 normally, Hera gives you 4 more. Dio, Artemis and Athena can turn up, so 12

[fiery kraken]

I wonder if it's possible to also have door get you to 6

[surreal hazel]

maybe you can use artificer in ephyra to get another god that's not in the main ephyra square, since that can happen

[fiery kraken]

can you get artemis on ow run?

[digital juniper]

yeah you can get it out of a midshop with travel deal

[surreal hazel]

Yes, but it requires you to take ephyira double heart or tonic room since she only spawns in those

[digital juniper]

you enter with 3 gods in the pool, shop boon is 4th, TD boon is 5, and midshop exit is 6

[surreal hazel]

Maybe also the moondrop room?

[digital juniper]

moondrop as in path of stars?

[surreal hazel]

Moondrop as in Moondrop, the thing that gives you the hex

[digital juniper]

oh yeah

[surreal hazel]

it's distinct from a path of stars, yes they're a different item

[digital juniper]

…i never realized that it’s the shape of a moondrop

i always just called it hex room and PoS room

[surreal hazel]

(The name was revealed in EA when you could buy them from hermes shrines)

[digital juniper]

and yes PoS in most cases is a double entendre

[surreal hazel]

A Piece of ||Sublime||

[digital juniper]

unless moondrops in ephyra are specifically coded to let artemis show up, i don’t think so

since it’s only PoS that she could show up in normally

[surreal hazel]

hey I like paths on the surface, they're so cheap from hermes shrines and don't block the mystery boon slot

[digital juniper]

if you take hex c1/c2, can PoS rooms show up in ephyra?

[surreal hazel]

No, they cannot. But you can get mini paths in siderooms

[digital juniper]

ah so basically that change did nothing for the surface LMAO

[surreal hazel]

and you can artificer a full one

basically the "Bag" used for the main square is extremely narrow

[digital juniper]

still just health/magick rooms, but hey atleast she did get an increased chance

[surreal hazel]

you get one double heart and mana tonic room, probably one hammer, the rest are boons and you might roll Medea

oh and almost certainly a Hermes

[digital juniper]

yeah while i did read up on bags i still cannot retain their information on what each bag consists of and their nuances

[surreal hazel]

basically ephryra has four (?) bags going on

one is the main one used in rooms 1 and 2, with room one doing an Erebus where only hermes/boons/hammer/moondrop can spawn

room 2 is a bit weird in that it feels like a normal bag, but you can't get hp or mana there

the main square is the main square

the siderooms have two bags for big and small rewards

and then there's the standard bag should you do an artificer

[digital juniper]

may i guide you to the masterpiece from East’s bag video at 14:06 https://youtu.be/BMC-xZZb6js

[surreal hazel]

There we go

Bag goes on head

[opal pecan]

Apropos of nothing in particular, I genuinely feel like coat is such a forgiving weapon at low, even middling Fear

(Mel coat in particular that is)

Fast movement and fast, spammable attack/special makes it so that mistakes in positioning and targeting are not punished hard (and you can do attack or special centric builds, it's flexible)

Strong dash strike further incentivizes/rewards the thing you ought to do for damage avoidance anyway

Low magick cost/reliance speaks for itself

Obviously you can't rely on the omega attack, but it's there as a situational panic button for players who aren't sure on dash timing

I truly do not understand the idea that it's a More Complicated weapon in any way

(unless I guess people are referring to tidbits like coat block exceptions or the specific interaction of the attack speed bonus on Mel coat, but idk, is that the kind of thing people mean? I feel like it's kinda ancillary to the core of a weapon)

[surreal hazel]

It's the 6th weapon, but it's very straightforward to understand homing missiles and punch

[opal pecan]

Yeah!

[spiral wadi]

ye mel coat is extremely straightforward to play on

it's also good to ignore the existence of block cuz it's a bad mechanic

no incentive when u can also use dash button

if only selene aspect charged after a successful block

[digital juniper]

coat has a selene aspect?

[odd bolt]

Its crazy how sgg simply forgot to make the 4th coat aspect

Surely on patch 2 we'll get it, I think it will be the aspect of Icarus or something

[tall notch]

it's gonna be an aspect of Meg and it's Mel having wings

[opal pecan]

Selene is fine y'all are just mean

[digital juniper]

yeah it’s probably something to do with the fact that you unlock coat last or something

[scarlet ferry]

I’d do 20 Selene runs before doing 1 Shiva run

Shiva is my most hated aspect

[proper cloak]

What's wrong with with Shiva and selene 😔

[scarlet ferry]

I don’t hate Selene. Just annoying to use sometimes.

But I don’t like Shiva. Doesn’t feel good to use imo

[shrewd flint]

Nah it has aspect of selene

[scarlet ferry]

If ya'll had to choose between adding Ares or Poseidon to your Charon build, who are you adding? My pool right now is Apollo, Demeter, Zeus, and Hestia (stuck with her from a random bag).

Swapping keepsake into Thessaly

[opal pecan]

Poseidon

[silent crow]

ares

[digital juniper]

Poseidon is the second most important god for charon right after apollo

[scarlet ferry]

That's what I went with since I though the duo with Apollo would be fun

[digital juniper]

hell he might be even more important than apollo

[silent crow]

ares is better in this build

ares+dem duo is the best duo for charon and meat grinder AQ is very strong

[digital juniper]

sure you’ve got local climate and cut above but geyser is that much more damage

wouldn’t it be hard to get AQ online with only zeus as wind?

[scarlet ferry]

Apollo gives wind

[digital juniper]

ah i forgot he does

then yeah Ares might be better as sand said

[scarlet ferry]

And since I'm using rerolls AQ is much easier to get than normal

[opal pecan]

Rerolls :O

Fair nuff

[scarlet ferry]

Wanted to make sure I started with Apollo

Also only doing 32 fear

Imagine I get the Demeter + Ares duo and the Zeus + Apollo duo 😩

[digital juniper]

glorious disaster doesn’t work on charon unfortunately

since you need to channel ocast twice basically

[glacial vapor]

lvl 19 hera special with aspect of pan lmaoo

[analog solar]

What should I do to defeat the top area, I haven’t beaten it yet

I also usually use the 2 throwing thing weapons with the balls on top

[viral yew]

Torches?

[viral yew]

Whats ur arcana

[dusty ember]

how do you use aspect of supay?

i see people saying its very good but it feels very bad

[alpine raft]

how are you building it?

[viral yew]

Lots and lots of flat damage

[dusty ember]

i think its supposed to be built around the dash

[alpine raft]

the dash part is more of a bonus

[viral yew]

I typically ignore the dash, not really worth it

[dusty ember]

so how do you build it

[broken spoke]

Dash is nice but on hit on atk and special more important

[alpine raft]

flat damage and hitch

[dusty ember]

so like poseidon and hestia?

[broken spoke]

Pos or hestia and combined with zeus or hera

[viral yew]

Pos, hestia, zeus, hera, even ares

Ares dash supay with the duos can go crazy

[dusty ember]

what duos

[broken spoke]

Static shock also insane as usual

[opal pecan]

The blade duos.

[dusty ember]

is the main attack the basic or the special?

[viral yew]

Coffin nail and the apollo ares one, cutting edge i think?

[opal pecan]

Ye

[viral yew]

Specials are always active and attacks are auto fired

[dusty ember]

i mean which should be my main source of dmg

[viral yew]

Both

[dusty ember]

so it doesnt matter if i take poseidon on basic attack and zeus on special or vice versa?

[broken spoke]

Special has better aoe and special boon usually has higher number, but i put boon depends on which show up first

[dusty ember]

ngl hovering blades feels like such a downgrade from the first game

[alpine raft]

they require a lot to be good

[dusty ember]

ares in general is trash honestly

[opal pecan]

I mean, they aren't a curse in this game, they're just damage

[analog solar]

uh gng idk I’d have to check

[viral yew]

Nuh uh

[opal pecan]

Posting for accountability purposes: I am only going to try one more actual GCA run tonight. If I keep trying I will go completely insane.

[dusty ember]

all the other gods are so much better

[viral yew]

Aphro is overall worse imo, if you know how to use him he can work really well, plus gives you access to the best duo boon and has a fair few useful secondaries as well as a strong blades build

[opal pecan]

I got so excited when I loaded in and I had Mel coat, but Chaos gave me Strength and.... Toula. TOULA. WHY.

[dusty ember]

best duo boon?

[opal pecan]

Heinous Affront

[dusty ember]

i dont know them by name

[viral yew]

Heinous affront

[dusty ember]

i play the game in another language

[opal pecan]

Revenge boon proc when wounds

[dusty ember]

oh

[viral yew]

Duo between ares and zeus

Best combined with light smite

[opal pecan]

Yeah, the Ares """"revenge"""" boon is nothing

[leaden heron]

So... I got into the Coat.

[opal pecan]

High Surf is a better revenge boon than Visceral Impact and it isn't even actually a revenge boon

[opal pecan]

Hell to the duck yeah

[leaden heron]

Still suck at it

[dusty ember]

that one looks interesting, never used it, at least for now i believe the best duo boon is heph + hestia

BLANG BLANG

[viral yew]

It's strong but requires a lot of setup and rng

[dusty ember]

so does revenge effects

[opal pecan]

Not as much as the Heph Hestia one

[broken spoke]

Chain reaction need a max out clang

Heinous want apollo

[opal pecan]

Also, again for accountability purposes, if I haven't got an attemptable GCA setup in the next five resets or three minutes, whichever deadline I notice first, I Will just stop. [3]

[viral yew]

3 boons that have no requirements are alot easier to get that 2 second heph cooldown with the duo

[opal pecan]

All right, we've got Gale Morrigan with an Antler start, DDs/Origination/Sorceress/health arcana, and mostly vows that I can handle other than the Rivals 1

"But Rivals 1 on the surface is so easy" shut it I'm bad

Also specifically bad at Morrigan

[broken spoke]

Sounds like easy one

[dusty ember]

but the required boons for chain reaction are useful by themselves, revenge effects by themselves are useless

im the best hades player in the world i dont take dmg

[opal pecan]

Comparatively, yes, which is why I'm giving it a go! But trust me, I am very bad at Rivals Poly and also Morrigan

[viral yew]

It's still harder to get it online than it is heinous

[dusty ember]

Satisfaction is bigger though

[opal pecan]

I don't antler enough, max health upgrades you pick up while antlered will apply after the antler expires, right?

[broken spoke]

Heinous light smith is a drug

[viral yew]

Yes

[broken spoke]

Everyone should try it

[opal pecan]

Figured, thanks

Nope, I die, I toldya I was bad at Rivals Poly 😔 Well, that's it for tonight then.

[summer cipher]

Currently trying to due a true hitless run, not just damageless. And right now I'm wondering if I should take the crimson Dress for the extra damage, or should I take the dress that reduces how much magik I need to charge my hex by 30%, my hex is phase shift, so being able to slow down the battle more frequently seems pretty good

[vernal quiver]

Yeah but killing things faster is better

[summer cipher]

Alright then, more damage it is

It didn't matter, Hecate did the attack pattern where she just sprays a million wave projectiles in a circle around her

[covert moat]

Fun fact-

A good build might win you a run

[mystic mango]

Gamble your way to victory

[spark crown]

Anthing to do with hexs = sub optimal

except twilight curse

[flint widget]

wolf howl and night bloom exist

[surreal hazel]

they definitely do

Dash++ and Decoy

[manic shuttle]

and then there's heart of hestia the goat

[mystic mango]

Hestia eclipse is so funny especially if you get the hestia-demeter duo or a good roll on Pyro technique

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, just running around with Ice strike casually making everyone take 5k damage

There's a meteor that lands or something but whatever

(Thematically I think hestia and apollo's godsents should've been switched but hey)

[mystic mango]

Sun rays makes sense but I could have seen it being a flamethrower and total eclipse being a solar eclipse yeah

But hestia eclipse is goated

[surreal hazel]

Apollo is about making things bigger

[mystic mango]

And triple Apollo beam is nuts

Especially if you manage to get the Artemis lunar ray crit chance

[surreal hazel]

The old Apollo Help duo was Stellar Slam, which was deemed so essential it got reworked into Grand Caldera

[mystic mango]

I didn’t play at all during EA but yeah the current heph Apollo duo is pretty fun

Especially if you get Apollo cast and hestia heph duo as well

For the double slam. Unlikely you could get enough stone for ares infusion though

[surreal hazel]

Stellar Slam literally is just grand caldera without the bonus power

[mystic mango]

Yeah literally just extra area

Which is nice but not worth a duo

[surreal hazel]

So what we have now is much better, just a little less thematic

+300 power is bonkers, Kinda makes Cryo Pounder... wello, Cry-o

(but they do multiply)

[mystic mango]

Yeah stacking hestia, heph, Apollo and Demeter all together is tough though

But pays off if you get it for sure

[surreal hazel]

With Hand of Hephestus for extra lols

[mystic mango]

That’s the wolf howl godsent?

[surreal hazel]

yeah

[mystic mango]

Still learning ability names

[surreal hazel]

(Honestly Tremor with smithy rush would do better here)

Tremor is the "Inflict rush boon on enemies howl howl hits" upgrade

[mystic mango]

I always am iffy about smithy rush until I use jeweled Pom and Poseidon and stuff and it’s only like 2 seconds

[surreal hazel]

but with smithy rush it doesn't actually do that

it just causes a smithy rush blast, ignoring cooldown

[flint widget]

hel omega special wolf howl gaming

[surreal hazel]

how do they work together?

[mystic mango]

Probably chases you around

That’s my guess

[surreal hazel]

Crufts build

[mystic mango]

I’ve used Hel like twice

But I can officially say I won with every aspect and joined the 4.9% and I usually run at least 12 fear just so I can get the pickup at the end

[surreal hazel]

Hel is fun

Hel oAttack builds are deep magic and not for the faint of heart

...or the sensible

But I find fun in doing off-beat builds rather than playing extreme fear

[mystic mango]

Isn’t the oattack just a wave that takes forever to happen or is there something I’m missing

[surreal hazel]

Yes it is

But it does have Helheim charge as a hammer upgrade

[mystic mango]

Ah hadn’t seen that before

[surreal hazel]

+2 oAttack projectiles

and the base damage is 200 each, hits quite hard

but the base charge time is 3 seconds, and is interrupted by dashing

[mystic mango]

Got ya

[surreal hazel]

Sadly Exceptional Talent only adds one more shot

[mystic mango]

And eternity doesn’t do anything since it’s like flames

Doesn’t count as a channel

[surreal hazel]

unlike how it works with mirrored thrasher and giga cleaver

[surreal hazel]

It does, but it doesn't have the time slow trigger in it, otherwise it'd be abusable with the shooting you're doing at the same time

[mystic mango]

Skull omega shotgun is funny with exceptional talent

[surreal hazel]

Sad that we lost Rocket Bombard, but hey

[mystic mango]

Had a build for that with 6 shells and the all-at-once a few times with aphro attack

Almost as insane as p-array

[mystic mango]

Well I mean it does count as a channel but not in the case of eternity

Obviously “channel” buffs and such apply to it

[surreal hazel]

Torches would be so busted if it did the time slow, lol

[mystic mango]

Yeah absolutely

[surreal hazel]

You can get enough omega speed to fire only omegas

(past the first shot anyway)

[mystic mango]

Yeah Moros aspect is fun

[surreal hazel]

Torch omega attacks are a little funky to say the least

once you're at a certain omega speed, adding more doesn't make you fire omegas any faster

[mystic mango]

Yeah likely since it becomes attack speed limited

[surreal hazel]

quite

charging an omega attack doesn't fire anything, it just tells the game "replace the next attack with an omega"

[mystic mango]

Yeah for sure

Moros aspect is one of those that just feels really strong instantly in the run with no boons or anything

Just cause of how big the blasts are and all

But I know it’s probably not really that strong

It is annoying though how flames pauses all magick regen

So unseen arcana and glamour gain aren’t very useful

#h2-victory-boasting message I forgot just how ridiculous my omega attack damage was here lol

[viral yew]

Moros is the strongest torch aspect and up there as one of the strongest aspects in general

[viral yew]

Not that you should ever take unseen

[mystic mango]

Don’t tell me how to be bad at the game

but yeah fair

I’d be better off with other options

Not entirely worth the 5 grasp

I just hate having no regen early on because of bad rolls not giving me a gain and having to do so little damage without omegas

[viral yew]

You can typically clear erebus with no gain short of 62

[mystic mango]

I’ll get there eventually 🤷‍♂️

[flint widget]

im temporarily stopping sub 6 surface grind

in favor for sub 12 62f grind 🔥

gonna go with moros since thats what i used for my sub 13

[jaunty acorn]

Hey guys how would you feel about this scenario; Say supergiants decided to bring Artemis to the core boon pool but she would not have anything to do with crits as Ares does not have anything do with Doom but completely new set of boons and different playstyle and status effects?

[viral yew]

That would be fine, why tho

[jaunty acorn]

just asking the community's opinion if Artemis suddenly does not have anything to do with crits as it was in Hades 1?

[viral yew]

It wouldn't feel right tho

[flint widget]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1283830399683919906/1466049392871215105/Opera_Snapshot_2026-01-28_153627_tiermaker.com.png?ex=697b5465&is=697a02e5&hm=667314f77ce36f138381d98e980a407a40194cb62881418cd22afad0c61b12d5&animated=true

this was on the spot so might change some rankings later on

@viral yew here u go

[digital juniper]

no. 1 supay glazer with supay not even being the highest torch🥀

[flint widget]

look even as the no 1 supay glazer early game sucks

even i cant deny that

[mystic mango]

Supay is something I’ve yet to get used to since it can’t flinch

[digital juniper]

good stuff being fair about it

[flint widget]

without forfeit tho whole different ball game

[viral yew]

Apart from shiva I'd agree with this

[mystic mango]

I keep thinking I’m safe because I’m hitting guys and then get my ass kicked cause of no flinch

[flint widget]

probably easiest aspect to get wins with ngl

since all u have to do is dodge

[mystic mango]

What moved Morrigan down? Or did it not deserve S to begin with?

[viral yew]

It's not very good for high fear

[flint widget]

its busted in the right hands but it has a high skill ceiling

[viral yew]

Yeah

[flint widget]

or u get final slice and dash strike into attack always

[mystic mango]

What’s the optimal combo. I usually cycle dash attack > oattack > special > attack > oattack to get two strikes

[flint widget]

special into dash strike into omega attack

easier to dodge stuff with that one

[mystic mango]

Fair enough

I did have one run I got the double triad chance and the extra 222 damage and it was pretty nuts

But I get the reason for dropping it down

High potential high execution

It’s also was fun with Hera attack

And heph special

[viral yew]

Goes crazy at low fear but when you get past 50 u gotta deal with grit and wards

[mystic mango]

Thats fair, though I’m also apparently a crazy person for running max grit and hordes lol

[keen bluff]

I use wards at lowe fear

[mystic mango]

And sometimes wards

[keen bluff]

Is that weird

[silent crow]

yes

[mystic mango]

I was like “oh as long as I’m not using axe that’s fine it’s just one hit”

Then realized how absurd that actually was

That I should not have been running max hordes, max grit, wards 1, time 2 and servants

And I was, in fact, a dummy

[rain grove]

hi everyone, can someone explain me how Aspect of Medea for the skull should be used? it just drop the skulls when I am

[surreal hazel]

tap attack, tap special, repeat

[mystic mango]

They explode when you hit an enemy with your special

[viral yew]

You shouldn't

[surreal hazel]

everything dies

[mystic mango]

You use attack to basically stick them to yourself

Then hit them with a special

Then special again to retrieve the skulls

And repeat ad-infinitum until everything is dead

Requires zero magick

[rain grove]

so it's basically a weird melee build right?

[surreal hazel]

basically

[mystic mango]

Pretty much

[surreal hazel]

where your melee weapon is your face

[viral yew]

Yur

[mystic mango]

But special is really safe

[surreal hazel]

and it's literally the best weapon in the game

[viral yew]

And the strongest aspect

[mystic mango]

East to avoid hits with and Medea does insane damage for using zero magick at all

[rain grove]

do the skulls stick to you or they stay in place if you move?

[manic shuttle]

assign attack and then special as a macro to another key or controller button and then press only that 😁

[surreal hazel]

they stick to you

[mystic mango]

They stick to you for 3 seconds and either explode when you hit with a special or when their timer expires

[rain grove]

I have the classic dualsense, which macro could I use?

[mystic mango]

A macro to spam attack 4 times then use special

[manic shuttle]

Idk anything about dual sense, sorry

[mystic mango]

Or 6 times if you want to account for extra shells should you ever choose to use that

[rain grove]

I didn't noticed it! I tried it once, seemed useless and kept using the melinoe aspect

[rain grove]

it just doesn't have any extra key 🙁

[surreal hazel]

Do not do this

Load one skull at a time

[mystic mango]

Shhhh they don’t have to know that

[flint widget]

people really don't know how to read aspect descriptions huh

[mystic mango]

I only just learned like 2 days ago that giga gutter and except. talent could activate casts multiple times

But that’s a more niche and not the clear description

But SG does have a way with distilling their descriptions down to be as brief as physically possible

[rain grove]

honestly, just saying that the skulls would stick and explode once you hit something with the special would have made it more clear

[flint widget]

didn't it already say that with the current description

[mystic mango]

Description is something like “skulls stay on you until you hit with a special or after 3 seconds, then explode”

[flint widget]

basically same thing

[rain grove]

Your Attack stays within reach, and explodes after landing your Specials or 3 Sec.

The withing reach confused me. Also my bad for not notificing that they were moving with me

it just felt like she dropped them

[silent crow]

"within reach" is terrible wording

[mystic mango]

Fair, that wording actually did seem a little odd when I first read it

Since it implies they like float around you or something

[umbral horizon]

Im going to use controller on Medea, is it better?

[mystic mango]

If you ever played Hades 1 it’s like aspect of Beowulf on the shield

Where your casts would explode when you did bull rush

[flint widget]

it doesn't really matter

[rain grove]

I loved it

still liked more the slow rotating shield

[flint widget]

ive rolled credits but never unlocked that aspect

rolled credits and dipped

only used adamant rail lmao

[mystic mango]

Yeah I didn’t play H1 anywhere near as long

Only like 25-30 hours and got enough satisfaction

I don’t think I even made credits

[flint widget]

meanwhile hades 2 600+ hours on it

[mystic mango]

My dad on the other hand was a H1 rat. Guy picked up the game in like June and had about 200 hours by December when we bought him Hades 2

[flint widget]

main reason was because gameplay felt a little bit too much like button mashing

[mystic mango]

He played it a tiny bit years ago and it didn’t catch on, picked it back up and got addicted

[flint widget]

like deadass my hands would start hurting after each run

meanwhile with hades 2 my hands mostly didn't hurt

[mystic mango]

Yeah H1 was just spamming dashes constantly and all

h2 is a lot slower paced movement-wise since most damage potential is from combos and omegas

[flint widget]

only time they did hurt was when i dash striked into special a bit too much

[mystic mango]

I’m a KB player so not anywhere near as arthritis inducing

But yeah H1 the combat being so up close meant a lot more spamming dash attacks and all

[flint widget]

i play on steam deck lmao

im probably the only active high fear steam deck player rn

whats with the zag sad emoji steam deck is goated

[mystic mango]

I’m saying sad for your hands

[viral yew]

Nah controller is fine, doesn't really hurt ever

[rain grove]

out of curiosity, which is you're favourite weapons? I'm really loving the aspect of selene of the black coat

it does insane damage with the upgrade +50% for every consecutive hit on the same enemie

[mystic mango]

@viral yew annihilate this person

10,000 pigeons EAT THIS MAN

[rain grove]

why? 😭 big punch with interplanetary lazer is fun!

[mystic mango]

Because it requires a lot of paths of stars to do any reasonable damage

[rain grove]

the base damage is already high. I loved it with aphrodite that will basically double the damage

[odd bolt]

Moros torches, mel staff

And than axe

Is my top 3

[mystic mango]

The issue is black coat is best used without omegas most often and that hex is specifically a buff to omegas

It can do decent damage but you’re better off just making your weapon itself stronger with boons than pouring effort into paths of stars

Half of playing black coat is sprinting around and using dash strike and base missiles

And occasionally using an omega attack if necessary

So it’s not terrible but the main buff of the weapon being placed in a hex that requires commitment to make good is not really worth it

[viral yew]

Omega attack on coat is really bad

The hex also sucks as no consistent path of stars and as far as hexes go it's not great either, you'd have more luck with an ocast build

Sure you might have fun but it's a weak aspect

[rain grove]

I'm understanding that i'm really bad at this point

I never made an omega build

i prefer normal attacks/specials usually

[viral yew]

Then you'd be much better off with nyx or mel coat

[rain grove]

I would rather buff other weapons first

but nyx seems fun too

[viral yew]

Fair enough

[bronze flax]

Persephone, Supay, uhhh I'd probably put Circe or Anubis in 3rd place

[flint widget]

top 5 is medea mel staff supay circe moros

supay is up there cuz im the biggest supay glazer of all time

[mystic mango]

#h2-victory-boasting message

This why?

[flint widget]

can't see the vid discord mobile is ass

[mystic mango]

RIP

10 second phase 2 chronos

With heph attack, poseidon special, and cut above

[flint widget]

nah the main reason why i like supay is cuz its a dodging aspect

[mystic mango]

Yeah no flinch is definitely a different experience

[flint widget]

weak ass early game but scales so hard

[mystic mango]

My erebus was nearly 5 minutes

Oceanus was under 2

[flint widget]

u don't need to attack just dash and dodge ez

[mystic mango]

And had I not wasted so much time I'd have probably been sub 10

[opal pecan]

*occasionally using an omega special, more likely; it's faster

[mystic mango]

Fair enough yeah

[scarlet ferry]

What’s the biggest any of ya’ll have gotten Tough Gain to be? I had it be at -7 per hit once because I sacrificed into it, so it was heroic with som levels

The boon I sacrificed was probably lvl4

Wait, there has to be a limit for Tough Gain, right? Cause what if you had a super high level gain from King’s Ransom for something and sacrificed into Tough Gain

[spiral wadi]

i don't think there is a limit, it's just unpommable by normal means lol

[scarlet ferry]

Gotta see someone sacrifice a lvl90 Zeus gain for Tough Gain lmao

If Tough Gain reduces an attack to 0 damage, do you still gain the magic?

[mystic mango]

Can probably test it by standing in steam if that’s affected by tough gain

[scarlet ferry]

True

Unrelated but I wish Lernie was a part of Rivals Cerberus. When I first walked into Rivals Cerberus’ arena, I full on expected to see Lernie after I saw all the lava

[opal pecan]

I don't believe Tough Gain is allowed to reduce damage past 1

[mystic mango]

That was my thought

Same as how hestia rush drops burning damage to 1

[fiery kraken]

oh that would be so cool

I guess they wanted to stay with adding characters/adds that were already in the game

[mystic mango]

Yeah, adding Charybdis to Scylla made sense but IDK who they’d add to Cerberus

The Olympus mini bosses wouldn’t make any sense. Charybdis actually holds some mythical sense here, beyond it making no sense for something like Talos to be in the underworld lol

[narrow steeple]

i can not be the only one that absolutely hates Howling Soul

[opal pecan]

You're not

It's lowkey underrated in certain specific contexts though

[narrow steeple]

it screws me up hard and bricks runs for me

cause it says its supposed to seek enemies.. but it kind fires in that direction and curves a bit and they just dodge

or iut flings RIGHT PAST chronos about 6 times.. and screws me up totally

somteims.. its great. Most times it either toally misses or goes into the wrong direction

[odd bolt]

i don't rely on howling soul tracking as well, but it is a 200 power button that also makes your cast stick to enemies and hard to miss if you line up or is close enough to an enemy

Ofc not as good on r4 if you get it from hades but from jpom it's not the worst thing in the world imo

[mystic mango]

I kept missing on chronos cause I tried to shoot it at him before he dropped his shield and the tracking actively made it miss since it doesn’t track him if he’s invulnerable

It kept tracking his minions so gotta time it better

Can’t just drop it on him like the others

But as far as damage goes it’s the best one

Unless you get a ton of levels and double strike on lightning lance

[silent crow]

high rarity glowing coal is pretty close and its aoe

[fiery kraken]

what about... bouldy??? there's already a boulder animation

[mystic mango]

lol that would be funny

[mystic mango]

Yeah and can be targeted so don’t have to worry about missing

[surreal hazel]

Should've been a weapon aspect

[mystic mango]

I do always hate when dad cast tracks an enemy next to me instead of who I’m aiming at

[surreal hazel]

Aspect of sisyphus,

You roll around as bouly like it's a mix between katamari damacy and rock of ages

[odd bolt]

Would make no sense in terms of the region itself but it could have been the twins of Typhon or something else since many sources say Cerberus is an offspring of Typhon and Echidna (tho I do believe that not to be the case in hades canon)

[surreal hazel]

Cerberus is mentioned as the offspring of typhon

[odd bolt]

in game? really?

That makes sense, I don't remember if there's any dialogue mentioning this tho

[spark crown]

from memory this is proper myths stuff

[odd bolt]

yeah that's from myth but i thought they could have changed it in game

[spark crown]

i dont think there was a reason to

[odd bolt]

same way they changed a little bit the Olympians to avoid incest

[spark crown]

unlike the zagreus, melinoe backstory

[odd bolt]

Well yeah I guess it's not that weird that cerb is a good boy despite the fact we kill his evil father

[polar ravine]

highest i ever got was lvl 18 once

ive gotten born gain up to lvl 33 once but couldnt replace it with tough gain.

[opal pecan]

There definitely is randomization to Chronos' attacks, right?

I swear I've gotten fights where he does multiple timebubbles off the bat in phase 1, which is the most annoying nonsense on this planet

And in phase 2, sometimes he's on the swirly goldthrob pattern right after the opening whilst other times he does the tutu orbital pattern

The latter of which I strongly prefer because I can just dash in and melee

[viral yew]

Unfortunately yeah

His patters are the difference between a 20 second kill and a 30 second one

[opal pecan]

I'll translate that to "under a minute or over a minute" for me :P

That's a pity! Gramps, why are you so annoying

[vernal quiver]

my experience is that like his start is scripted but after that he just spins a roulette wheel to decide

[opal pecan]

Bro out there outchaosing Chaos

[vernal quiver]

but its not as if hes spewing things randomly in unpredictable positions, he has a very set rhythm

he'll do smth, wait a bit, tp, then do smth again

[opal pecan]

Yeah, for sure

[mystic mango]

Most bosses work off range mechanics naturally so you have some ability to affect him by standing at certain ranges but idk how much he avoids that

That’s how bosses work in 90% of games

[opal pecan]

It's just that some of the -- let's call them "moves" -- make me groan in frustration when I see that he's decided to go with that

Like I complained mildly about the swirly blobs in phase 2, but actually I hate the dashing around moves more

[vernal quiver]

from vibes its kinda like when he tps or comes off of cd he decides what hes doing right then and it triggers on the space necessary

so like when he tps and decides to do scythe throw, he'll get himself in the spacing specifically for scythe throw

idk ive never found it too much of an issue unless its p2 because i cant tell wtf is going on

[mystic mango]

Rivals chronos is pain

Triple scythe throw

[vernal quiver]

p1 is free, p2 is a visual nightmare, and p3 he can just decide to kill you but hes fairly honest past that

triple scythe takes a bit to get used to but it gets super consistent once you get comfy

[opal pecan]

Oh I aint even talkin Rivals, just normal runs and trying to be efficient about it

Rivals he's a real ass

[vernal quiver]

p1 hes scripted to do the same opening unless you burst tf out of him so its super easy to play around

[opal pecan]

What's the behavior for if you burst the hell outta him

Is that the timebubbles one that made me see red

[vernal quiver]

he'll tp out yeah cuz you triggered the combo breaker

[mystic mango]

I know just rivals makes him so much more BS

[opal pecan]

Motherparenter

[vernal quiver]

or you phase him entirely and he acts normal

[mystic mango]

I needed new underpants after I beat rivals chronos first try

[vernal quiver]

like his p1 opening is always dash -> throw -> slam into the vacuume so you have plenty of time to kill all the ads if you bait him to the back corner which you can do super easily

then after that its just p1 gramps so thats really free

p2 assuming you break him out of the ohko he'll either do scythe throw or vacuume then back to ohkos unless you phase him, if you dont combo break him iirc its a scripted time stop??

or at least very likely

[opal pecan]

I'm assuming that's Rivals-specific since vacuum

[vernal quiver]

oh yeah im talking rivals

i havent fought base gramps in forever

then p3 his only scripted thing is the cutscene attack at the start, after that good luck and react

at least iirc, hes never too consistent p3 so you just gotta learn how to dodge everything individually

like my damagless vid i have he does 3 scythe throws lol

but other times he doesnt do it at all, its just vibes for p3

also shoutout the strategy of just hoping he doesnt time slowdown since that can just decide to kill you

[opal pecan]

Time slow feels like his most bullpucky-enabling move

[vernal quiver]

its just frustrating because he doesnt have any specific scripting for it after the big scythe swipe

so he can just do whatever tf he wants

ive seen clips where he gets like 2 more attacks out 😔 like no way in hell you dodge all of em even with messenger abuse

[opal pecan]

I do appreciate the reminder to take advantage of Messenger more often

Have you ever iframed an instakill with it?

[vernal quiver]

no but ive iframed a timeslow scythe throw

and other timeslow stuff

instakill i always just dash like a normal person

especially since i play circe so waiting to drop my cast for that is a damage loss

[opal pecan]

Hm. Good point, if you got your dash timing right then that's a better way to ignore the instakill, hypothetically.

[dusty ember]

what weapons go well with heinous affront?

[mystic mango]

Any of them honestly

It just is a on-hit

So whatever can hit the most enemies the fastest

[scarlet ferry]

Medea skull with Ares attack and Zeus special goes hard

[scarlet ferry]

Attack speed doesn’t help. It’s only when you apply wounds which has a cooldown. On top of the, heinous affront itself has a cooldown

[mystic mango]

I said most enemies

Not the same enemy the fastest

[scarlet ferry]

?

[mystic mango]

I said whichever is able to hit the most enemies as quick as possible

Just since you probably want to reset timers

And get light smite

🤷‍♂️ idk

[opal pecan]

It doesn't reset anything, if it's on cooldown then it's on cooldown

Fun little synergy with the Hes/Ares duo if you get that too though lol

[prisma gust]

Am I the only one who likes Mel skull more than Medea?

[dusty ember]

my favorite is persephone

[prisma gust]

Fair, but overall I think the bonus power is really strong and better than boon levek

[barren briar]

....literally holding Medea skull at this moment thinking "well this is awkward" but thinking maybe I should use Persephone again because it is very fun

[prisma gust]

Medea is powerful and fun, but I prefer range for rivals Eris

[flint widget]

omega attack exists for a reason

arctic and rapture ring can also destroy eris balls

[barren briar]

ohhh yeah Eris is not easy to do rivals with close combat

[broken spoke]

Sorry used them all for p.array

[barren briar]

I'm at the point now where I've done all the trials and just sort of chilling my way through with no fear on, feeling a lot like I've got a handle on my favourite weapons and builds

[broken spoke]

Don't ask why eris still alive

[barren briar]

husband often likes to backseat for me too and he's a big fan on overground of aiming for Hermes for Quick Buck and Poseidon's Sea Star to cash in on that more

[flint widget]

bro just use regular omega attack im assuming u have a good gain

[scarlet ferry]

Each enemy has their own cooldown

It’s not like Hephaestus blast

[opal pecan]

Yes, that is the cooldown I am talking about

[prisma gust]

I still prefer Mel skull for range on something other than just the omega attack

[rare grove]

sea star/buried treasure with travel deal from hermes goes super hard, two boons per shop is lit

[barren briar]

it really can be a game changer, and I've had Sea Star up to something like 80% once iirc, so getting doubles on health bonuses also made me feel pretty untouchable

[scarlet ferry]

Sea Star works on Selene rewards which is cool. Not sure if it can work on the very first Selene reward you take though

[barren briar]

not sure I've had it early enough for that but yeah that can be great with the right blend too - very fond of getting myself a funky little ally to obliterate boss health bars

[scarlet ferry]

I had a run with the Night Bloom hex along with the Apollo + Hera duo lol. I had 2 Yargonaughts fighting Typhon with me

[barren briar]

nice! I think I had something similar but not as impressive an army, but it was just a case of sit back and let them obliterate at that point

[prisma gust]

I remember my first surface clear was because of godsent Lunar Ray doing like 30000 damage to Typhon

[scarlet ferry]

I made a spreadsheet earlier to keep track of my fear and speed records for each aspect. I’m on my phone right now but was able to fit the UW fear and Surface fear amounts into a screenshot

https://imgur.com/a/glXLiie

[scarlet ferry]

Is it worth using Chrollex on onions or should I save it for bigger stuff

[opal pecan]

Even if you chrolexed every single onion, you'd probably still have 1-2 charges left over for Bigger Stuff depending on when you picked up the keepsake, right?

If you're running Underworld, hell, 2-3 charges because you shouldn't be taking Tartarus siderooms anyway

[runic hatch]

Hey guys, any build for Anubis weapon ? I’ve seen many people using apolo boon on attack but idk

[blazing knot]

is the damage bonus from any arcana card that gives damage bonus(origination/furies/huntress) and weapon damage bonus(medea/shiva destructive etc) additive with every other source?

[opal pecan]

All damage bonuses that are like "+x% [some type of] damage" are additive with all other applicable ones, iirc

It's more a matter of which boosts are applicable to a particular type of damage dealt

The major multiplicative thing is damage reduction

And Success Rate catches people off guard, but it also sneakily doesn't have a plus sign, which is the clue

[blazing knot]

i see, additional question does anything affect things like blitz, splash and maybe scorch? origination says deal more dmg as long as there are 2 status on the enemy so it should apply to those right?

[opal pecan]

Scorch is a bit funky, there's some stuff that boosts it and some that doesn't and it isn't necessarily obvious

[scarlet ferry]

What items are the same tier as a DD refill? I want to know what can travel deal into a DD

[opal pecan]

I believe the global damage boosts (aka they're not limited to attacks, specials, whatever, etc.) like Origination and Lion's Fang all boost the amount of damage taken by enemies, but then you have weird things like White Antler apparently not affecting it

[scarlet ferry]

It's just that scorch can't crit

[broken spoke]

AQ and crit doesn't affect scorch

[mystic mango]

Is it just me or is Raki kind of annoying to use with Circe aspect

Cause he's never where I want him

And always flies back to me

[broken spoke]

Just you

[opal pecan]

Lotta folks real big on using Raki with Circe, but like, if you're a Toula preferrer

[broken spoke]

My raki always on enemy head pecking them

[manic shuttle]

all global and olympian damage boosts affect them, Arcana (origination, furies), glow status effect from heph, boons (sweet surrender, extended family, uncommon grace,...)

damage boosts which don't mention weapon, attacks or specials basically

[mystic mango]

Eh it's just he really likes to fly back to me coincidentally right when I'm about to cast

I know he's good for it but it can be annoying sometimes

[shrewd flint]

Strength arcana card

[scarlet ferry]

Isn't that good at high fear

[viral yew]

No?

[scarlet ferry]

?

I meant it as a statement not a question

[viral yew]

Ohhh mb

[scarlet ferry]

lol

[shrewd flint]

It stop being good at scar 3

Which is like 60

[scarlet ferry]

Not that great with Scars 2

[shrewd flint]

It is

Just dont take damage

If u dont take damage

Strength > death

I just realise i played the game wrong coz i didnt bring gale and lover

[scarlet ferry]

Then why are you saying it isn't good at scars 3

[shrewd flint]

Coz 0 healing scary

👺

[scarlet ferry]

?

[shrewd flint]

Yea but im not good enough to take 0 damage

Whenever i bring death i just die to time

💀

That 20% dmg increase is something in reigion 1

Strength + white antler + worry free

Gamba gamba

[opal pecan]

One of my least favorite parts of the Great Chaos trials -- besides just "it random" (considering that's the whole concept haha) -- is that there are three ways for you to not get Strength and only one way for you to not get Death

Scratch that, five ways, actually

How to not get Death: don't roll the Death arcana
How to not get Strength:

1. don't roll the Strength arcana
2. OR roll it but you also roll Death
3. OR roll it but you also roll Toula
4. OR roll it but you also roll Pin
5. OR roll it but you also roll Tooth

I just thought of a sixth: if you roll Figurine and Figurine rolls Death :B

Or a seventh: roll Stone and Stone makes you take the Athena DD boon?

There's just so many goddamn ways for the game to shove Strength-invalidating things at you when you're on randomizer mode

This is a very long-winded way to say: that is one arcana that do not do good with the gamba

[scarlet ferry]

I mean it’s not like it’s harmful to have both. If you never end up losing all your DDs, great 👍

If you do, you now have Strength to help out

[opal pecan]

Issa slog and a damn'd waste!

[broken spoke]

Just use the 30 hp no strength no dd random setup

[scarlet ferry]

Aphrodite legendary should be able to apply Hangover

[mystic mango]

That would be pretty busted but yeah

[surreal hazel]

And marked

And gust. But not wounds

[shrewd flint]

Heph blast buff pls when

Heph blast is so ass

[surreal hazel]

My friend, I invite you to see what blasts were like in EA 1

[shrewd flint]

😭😭😭 worse than wound

[surreal hazel]

Blasts are viable now but you really need to build into them

[shrewd flint]

blasts is literally doom but bad

[surreal hazel]

No. Blitz is doom but good

Blasts are their own thing and before we continue... do you have the endgame keepsakes?

If not then yeah I can see why you feel that way about blasts

[shrewd flint]

blast is inferior to blitz

[surreal hazel]

Out of the gate, yes

But with support I've seen single procs pulling 5k damage in a big AoE

[viral yew]

Fully built blast builds beat out just about any build outside of possessed array or max potential charon

[shrewd flint]

max potential charon my beloved

[surreal hazel]

Blitz is hard to argue with, it's true

5 duos in support of blasts, grand caldera, furnace blast

4 blast sources

You can go real hard on them

Basic trick is to put volcanic boons on a rare button you aren't building on.

Like charon attack, nonmel staff special

[scarlet ferry]

It can do gust

[surreal hazel]

It cannot. Only freeze

I went through the script

[scarlet ferry]

Well I went through the deeper script 🙄

[surreal hazel]

Also it can't do curses from gods you've never met

As in. Ever

[scarlet ferry]

Makes sense

[surreal hazel]

No hitch until you've been to the surface

[scarlet ferry]

Wish Athena had a curse

Even Hades had one

[surreal hazel]

Hades' kinda isn't

[scarlet ferry]

I know it doesn’t count for origination but scorn is a curse

[surreal hazel]

Callback to h1

[scarlet ferry]

Yeah but it’s still a curse

[surreal hazel]

Athena could still have exposure but h2 seems to dislike backstab as a function compared to h1

Only three ways to get the effect at all, two are on blades

[scarlet ferry]

Yeah

[surreal hazel]

Wallslam is gone

[scarlet ferry]

Maybe a debuff where if an enemy hits you while you’re impervious from her boons (or another source) they get stunned

[shrewd flint]

Athena boons are too op in h1

[surreal hazel]

And h2 tbh

[shrewd flint]

Athena is in athena tier

Cant play h1 without having athena keepsake on

[surreal hazel]

Getting stubborn defiance is bonkers

[shrewd flint]

Literally unplayable

[surreal hazel]

This is why I think it was a bad design choice to make athena the first god you meet

[shrewd flint]

Funny how hitch is chiron aspect

[surreal hazel]

Teaches people to rely on deflecting

[surreal hazel]

Rama*

[manic shuttle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1438829189385031692/1466369696797425715/prom_punches.mp4?ex=697c7eb3&is=697b2d33&hm=ee826b4c7c6f029dec061ddb813311b1b1d4c5bcc025d8efd6b7552a96bec95a&

prom punches are faster than speed of light

[mystic mango]

[insert ultra instinct goku doing the hundred punches in an instant]

[flint widget]

another day, another sub 6 lost to ass thessaly and olympus

[surreal hazel]

Thassaly

Olympass

[unreal rose]

Erebass

Now that sounds like a type of fish you could get in Erebus

[opal pecan]

So I did another GCA attempt over lunch and died at final stage Prometheus again, but this time it was because I was a dumbass who voluntarily decided to take a miniboss room while being a clumsy player whom Chaos had given maxed Pain plus Shadow and Grit

I think tonight perhaps I will do a 20F or 24F Surface just to persuade myself that I can physically do it sans randomization fdhjfghfdjg

[frank siren]

If it were easy there'd be more than just 11 recorded sub-6 runs ever may the rng ever be in our favor

[fiery kraken]

it took me A LOT of attempts for my first clear of GCA

40 attempts it looks like

[opal pecan]

Good grief

I've reset a lot, but in terms of actual attempts I think it's still under a dozen

Guess I oughta just buckle up lol