h2-builds-and-combat

[glass bone]

I assume it’s the big spawn and not the twins?

[digital juniper]

yes, big monster looking guy. got to the summit 2 times, he got me 2 times.

hard hitting big AoE attacks paired with my skill issue is not a good combo

[civic ocean]

I won my 50+ run on patch 10 with pretty standard scorch PT and the aph duo

But if I recall patch 11 restored Poseidon waves to the dash attack so

Thats probably better and also more fun

[glass bone]

Aye. There’s 3 attacks that guy uses;

1. Run into a wall with 3 damage waves right at him, semi close, and a bit far away
2. Run straight at you and launch a shockwave forward
3. Two swipes followed by a stomp.

I believe you can dash into the straight run. Then you have to position right with the other two attacks.

[digital juniper]

for some reason my brain just shuts off when he does the stomp, the 3 different circles get me all confused. I probably took 100+ damage from that alone. took a lot of damage from his swipes too, due to underestimating how big their hitbox is.

[shy hearth]

it's always easier to time your dodges instead of spacing them

[digital juniper]

yeah, i think i just panicked too much in the fight, knowing that he also bested me last time

[civic ocean]

The hard part for the stomp is that you’re not supposed to dash really you’re supposed to walk

Oftentimes if you dash you go too far and get slammed

[digital juniper]

https://imgur.com/a/lInM9vp now or never @median anvil @glass bone

[spiral wadi]

pivot to blast sacrifice

[digital juniper]

i got him! made sure i took it slow and didn't rush in stupidly. still took a lot of damage, but much less.

[median anvil]

next miniboss coming soon

[digital juniper]

i went for Hera, but what's blast sacrifice? dont think i've seen it before

[digital juniper]

i assume its the "twins" that have been mentioned before?

[median anvil]

meant go for heph and hope he offers his attack to switch with your sworn strike

[median anvil]

go see for yourself 😉

[digital juniper]

oh yeah, since i dont need much more aoe, heph attack would've been better DPS. or does a swing produce a blast on every enemy it hits when its off CD?

[spiral wadi]

yea when u have blast ready on a move, it'll proc blast on every enemy it hits

prob better to just not do that this late into the run tho unless ur somehow starving for dmg lol

[digital juniper]

holy hell that sounds so fun, not sure why i though it'd proc on just one enemy, lol

[uneven palm]

Oh no it’s just one blast per cooldown, it just has AOE

[civic ocean]

This is true for its first instance right

Like if I have blast on Charon special its only the people hit by the first wave of the ospec that get blasted iirc

The first ball of the flames special etc

[digital juniper]

well that was a...fight. eye of typhoon was interesting

[uneven palm]

Yeah first thing that gets hit when off cooldown is the center of the blast

[median anvil]

did you win

[glass bone]

That is one of the mini bosses added in Patch 9. There’s a second older one from Warsong.

[digital juniper]

yeah, significantly easier fight than spawn. although i did lose a DD, even with putting my cast down as frequently as possible, they wittled down my health

[civic ocean]

What about things like the staff or skull o attack that hit everything at once

Also does anyone know if the Heph Godsent for Wolf Howl is buffed by Heph blast duos etc

[uneven palm]

I dunno how it picks there tbh, but just one Heph blast happens

[glass bone]

I kept doing tests with Wide Grin Heph attack, and it drove me insane. To my understanding now, every enemy you hit at once should trigger a blast

Like I’ve gotten multiple blasts with a Heph Skull Special. I think.

[spiral wadi]

o 🤔

[digital juniper]

oh... i'm at the typhon fight, dang

[glass bone]

The clanging noises and the particle effects (and also there not being an actual lab room in the Crossroads) makes things harder to test.

Though I also think there’s a period of time where it would be too late to trigger blasts? Like I don’t think Persephone’s Sprouted Special can trigger a blast on each enemy for the whole duration.

[cerulean panther]

Is this with significant range in between enemies?

[glass bone]

Uh… define significant.

[median anvil]

summit is pretty short

[cerulean panther]

I know Blasts chain between enemies to a certain degree.

I haven't done Wide Grin testing but it's the very first thing that came to mind, you're sure you're not just getting Grand Caldera or something?

[glass bone]

I’m not.

[cerulean panther]

Got it.

[glass bone]

I can tell you, there’s a day in #h2-discussion where I was going insane trying to comprehend it for like an hour.

[cerulean panther]

I think I remember that.

[glass bone]

I can’t go through this again… it still feels like a mystery to me

Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t.

At-least to my eyes and ears.

Allowing us in 1.0 to get boons or hammers in the Training Grounds would be so helpful for stuff like this.

[uneven palm]

@civic ocean here's a staff O attack with Heph on it, going different directions. 1 blast, looks like it triggers on the right-hand that it hits slightly sooner (the O attack expands outward, just very fast) https://imgur.com/a/cGuwphz

i ate that barrel and eyeball for science

[digital juniper]

well typhon is definetly not melee friendly

[elfin forge]

he's probably the most melee friendly boss I think?

[civic ocean]

I wonder if the skull O attack is like this too and expands outwards

[digital juniper]

you think? i can barely get any damage in before he does his head smash attack

[elfin forge]

yeah he does that alot so you gotta train yourself to get out of the way for headslam specifically, but many of his other attacks are countered by getting close

[civic ocean]

Typhon is a really friendly boss to every source of damage except backstab

He is literally a giant target

The problem is that he hits you for 40-60 a pop

[uneven palm]

You're gonna get wrecked first time out, that's how it goes

[glass bone]

Typhon is Surface prime. You can’t damage trade. You play it slow and get hits in carefully

[elfin forge]

yeah Typhon does huge damage so it takes a few tries. He's simple but punishing, is probably the way I'd describe him

[civic ocean]

Dark souls boss

[digital juniper]

part of the process. i got him to after the phase where zeus comes in and gets a good hit in

[uneven palm]

There's probably miniscule frame differences that determines who gets hit "first" if I had to guess

[elfin forge]

you can gauge hp based on when he changes phases

[digital juniper]

really interesting that you cant see his health, really nice touch

[civic ocean]

Yeah I suspect no attack mel gas is uniform in terms of damage application (and the more I think about it the more I wonder if this is why certain attacks are attack speed locked to prevent hitboxes from overlapping)

Phase shift is the one thing I have seen break animations

[digital juniper]

the tongue sweep i was able to figure out the timing for after getting hit twice. eyeballs once. cyclones were a non-threat. but i couldn't get the timing down for his head slam in time sadly

[elfin forge]

tongue sweep has a blind spot at point blank, free damage

[digital juniper]

i'd say i did about 7k damage after he got up from the zeus hit, not counting the damage done while i was attacking the mini snake. not sure how close i was

[civic ocean]

The head slam is pretty hard to time but he has a logic that you will get used to

Basically if you are within head slam range and his last attack was not head slam he is extremely likely to head slam

[elfin forge]

he basically does it every other attack, so when you learn it, you have a lot more free time

[civic ocean]

So you get in a pattern of run away from head slam, attack, dodge towards him to avoid his ranged attack, attack, run away to avoid head slam

[digital juniper]

yeah the slam itself has a pretty obvious tell, but from my limited experience of facing him 1 time, if im near him when he does the tell, i'm getting hit.

[digital juniper]

will defintely keep this in mind, thank you

[elfin forge]

dash straight down, your iframes should keep you safe

[civic ocean]

I think its really hard to dodge through it because the hitbox lingers longer than your dash iframes IIRC

So you have to dash away or to the side

[elfin forge]

and when you know when he tends to do it, you'll start premoving downwards before he starts it

[digital juniper]

i tried doing that, but i think i wasn't dashing away enough, or the hitbox is bigger than i expected

[civic ocean]

Yeah you will get in the habit of premoving when your spidey senses tell you you are about to get slammed

[digital juniper]

yessir. next time he's going down, the fates just prophesized it.

[uneven palm]

It’s also a kinda late dash to iframe it

[digital juniper]

||that was cringe||

[civic ocean]

I can literally never get it except with Divine Dash

But im bad so

[uneven palm]

DD doesn’t extend iframes anymore I don’t think? Not like previous patches at least

[elfin forge]

it was nerfed but still does I think?

[civic ocean]

Oh did they nerf that? Damn Athena guess its Pike Tasks or DDs

[elfin forge]

"· Divine Dash (Athena): reduced Deflect duration to match the original game" -Unseen Update, June 17th

divine dash is still great

[spiral wadi]

i legitimately have never gotten mileage out of divine dash

why deflect when u can just dodge

[glass bone]

Ok, so I haven’t done a run just yet, but… it seems like the non-Shiva coats absolutely are better for Fine Line / Ocean Swell than Mel Torches, albeit it goes through magic so much faster.

Ok, actually… wait… Staff and Blades I think can do the same thing with their OSpecials…

I need to try these out later today. Maybe it could be a good strategy (cause Fine Line Torches got me a 50 Fear clear), maybe not (cause Poseidon Waves Exhaust Rider and other strategies probably are better….)

[civic ocean]

It makes your iframes on the dodge better

[spiral wadi]

que

[civic ocean]

Yeah the game doesn’t outright tell you this and honestly maybe im wrong but I think even going back to hades 1 Divine Dash increases your dash iframes

[spiral wadi]

huh 🤔

[elfin forge]

0.175 seconds of full invuln

(I don't know what the base dash invuln is)

[civic ocean]

I think my answer isnt technically correct but it is practically correct

[spiral wadi]

hm neat, idk i prob still gonna aim for defensive posture lmao

[civic ocean]

I always forget I have that lmao

[spiral wadi]

now that i think about it why doesn't athena have any armor giving boons

[glass bone]

Hmmm… -50% Max HP, but gain Armor equal to 150% of your then reduced HP?

[spiral wadi]

tru, tho i'm way more mindful of it on rtyphon especially the 4th phase spam

trade in all your death defiances for armor 😎👍

[glass bone]

So 200 HP becomes 100 HP and 300 Armor with the boon idea I proposed.

[spiral wadi]

hmm so for strength 200/0.6 would be like 332-ish, then the tradein would be 466 since armor doesn't scale with strength

effective hp*

seems fun

[glass bone]

If need be, the scale could be changed.

[spiral wadi]

nah i think it works esp since it gives u a big boost in tanking while still being a risk if u end up losing ur armor

[glass bone]

Say; -25% but +75% of HP as Armor. 3 times the HP lost I think is fair.

[spiral wadi]

having more max hp is helpful since it scales w fountain, food etc, but the armor tradein works if ur confident in ur endgame skills

[glass bone]

Also means that one Heph boon is huge.

The +damage based on Armor.

[spiral wadi]

true,,

[glass bone]

And it combos with White Antler

Now this feels broken.

[civic ocean]

Ive been running strength are DDs like that much better

[spiral wadi]

all of this will be 1.0 silken sash rework trust

[glass bone]

You gain a whole bunch of HP, take this boon, take White Antler and that one Heph boon, and start blasting.

[civic ocean]

I guess with DDs I can just spam Pin on Summit

[spiral wadi]

rn i think strength is fine until you go up to max scars then dd is supremely superior

strength is ass with scars on don't do what i do lmao

[civic ocean]

Oh I have been going Onion strength and it been good

The only problem is I feel you have to save Knucks for Typhon if you go Strength so Prometheus is like giga hard

[spiral wadi]

o i never use knuckle bones lmao

[civic ocean]

O fr

[spiral wadi]

circe privilege

[civic ocean]

I like them on Prom usually

[spiral wadi]

my two 62f surface keepsakes have both been zeus, silken, onion, and athena in that order

my most recent one i should've done athena olympus onion summit cuz i had 70 worth of onion remaining after prom

[civic ocean]

Though sometimes I just slap Pin on in Thessaly when I have DDs and keep it until Typhon

They really outta biome limit that thing it is craaaazy

[glass bone]

Where would the Death Defiances be spent? For Eris?

[civic ocean]

Red plays with strength so the athena is for Defensive Posture or Stalwart Stand I assume

[glass bone]

Oh…

[spiral wadi]

yea defensive posture saved me my first 62f clear lol

(surface)

[glass bone]

Renewed Faith has saved all of my 50 Fear (and that Charon 44)

So that’s why I asked.

[civic ocean]

I do think its so interesting that you take Sash on strength

[spiral wadi]

ye if i have snow queen i take sash in thessaly

[civic ocean]

But I think Sash is like really good when you’re cracked at the game

Fwiw thessaly is maybe the second worst region for it tho

[spiral wadi]

otherwise i still do it anyway hoping for icarus drop

[civic ocean]

Oh right icarus

Wait how does sash work in ephyra do you get it every side room and every time you go in and out of the lobby

[glass bone]

Circe double hazard boom?

[civic ocean]

He takes the armor from Icarus usually the 100 then immune thing and the keeps it on until Typhon sometimes

[spiral wadi]

that happened only once lol

[civic ocean]

usually until prometheus then?

[spiral wadi]

idk it kinda just happens lol

[civic ocean]

Ye

[spiral wadi]

the game wills whether my armor is kept

[civic ocean]

Maybe im copium going strength

[uneven palm]

Divine Dash is nice for dash-strikes where you don’t have the iframes of a regular dash

[civic ocean]

Oh is THAT what it is

[uneven palm]

Yeah naked dash has iframes, once a dash becomes a dash-strike you lose them

[civic ocean]

What about dash channels

[uneven palm]

It’s weird like you can dash while channeling some omegas or like while doing flame attacks and that’s all iframes. But d dash is superlative for like Dashing Heave Mel Axe or dash-strike coats

[civic ocean]

Oh neat

Did Divine Strike also give iframes to your attack

[uneven palm]

In h1? Ish because it made your weapon hitbox deflect

[civic ocean]

I remember spamming Athena on fists was good

[uneven palm]

Divine dash was good there too since you were holding attack a lot and probably always doing dash-strikes

[civic ocean]

Yeah you wanted to dash strike out of the attack combo because the last hit had endlsg

[spiral wadi]

ah i see

[rocky pier]

I need to do a surface clear with black coat and am seeking build suggestions. I’d probably prefer Shiva.

[uneven palm]

Apollo attack, night arcana, Omega punch whole rooms

[rocky pier]

Special tho?

Or does it not matter? Origination is an issue

[uneven palm]

Put a status on there probably. Hera, Zeus, Ares

[rocky pier]

Ares is best I guess for grievous blow

[uneven palm]

Probably yeah. With like a high rarity Apollo attack and like weed killer Origination isn’t going to do a ton for your attacks fwiw

[tall notch]

Hestia special Nyx

[rocky pier]

Am I really gonna drop it for excellence tho

[uneven palm]

I drop Orig for like Night + Eternity on builds like this

[rocky pier]

I specified shiva. Begone with you nyx fan

The issue is I like having the queen

But I’m realizing that without persistence you literally cannot do a full combo

[uneven palm]

Idk 10 rerolls tends to get me any duos I really care about

[tall notch]

The wording of "I'd probably prefer shiva" doesn't suggest you're only considering shiva builds. Go play Nyx now

[uneven palm]

(Also if you want an easy clear Nyx is easier )

[rocky pier]

Huntress feels like it would go hard here, however I do feel like I need persistence

[forest forum]

This build is probably going to give Mel hearing loss...
#h2-victory-boasting message

[rocky pier]

Does anything buff omega boost other than globals?

Feels like budget Supay but worse

[tall notch]

Omega damage boosts it too

[uneven palm]

Chaos, or Night, or Vital Signs goes very hard with Nyx

[rocky pier]

Am I forgetting something? There aren’t boons that only boost omega damage globally are there?

[tall notch]

It has an actually useful moveset unlike supay

[uneven palm]

Chaos infusion boosts Omegas

[rocky pier]

Can’t really expect to get a chaos door on the surface tho

[uneven palm]

If you do it’ll be C1

Or Olympus

[rocky pier]

I believe that’s the only place it can spawn before olympus

[forest forum]

Possessed Array with Born Gain and 3 or more things that proc on Omega Attack is really funny.

[rocky pier]

Wanna know something cool? Weed Killer is free damage on possessed array.

It doesn’t cost the extra magick. I assume it’s intended too.

[forest forum]

Like, Weed Killer, Fine Line, & Explosive Intent all proc with Possessed Array.

[rocky pier]

Why hestia special? I’m going scorch with the Aphro duo or something?

[rocky pier]

Wait really? Fine line? And it’s free? That’s pretty insane.

[tall notch]

The special is really good at applying scorch and you'll deal lots of damage

[uneven palm]

Easy to spread Scorch on the whole room with Nyx

Like do that and get Pyro and Orig online that’s the build tbh

[forest forum]

I got Fine Line late, at rare, and no bonus levels, and it still was a ton of my damage. Just check the stats in victory boasting. I picked it up half-way through Olympus.

[tall notch]

I like freezer burn but you can live without it if Demeter doesn't feel like showing up

[uneven palm]

Yeah that’s good or do like burning desire + pyro shenanigans. I don’t hate the Zeus or Poseidon scorch duos either

[tall notch]

Thr zeus one I don't feel is really needed on Nyx. You're not short on scorch

[forest forum]

Fine Line at Rare and no levels did 48,000 damage after being picked up halfway through Olympus, with no Vows increasing Hordes or Grit.

[uneven palm]

Fine Line goes hard

[forest forum]

Oh, it's not free. It still DRAINS your Magik by applying the Magik cost hike. I had Heroic Born Gain with around 180 Magik, and still ran out of Magik in one room of Olympus.

[uneven palm]

With Possessed Array it’s free

[forest forum]

Honestly, I couldn't tell.

Born Gain was the only thing that let me do what I did.

[uneven palm]

Possessed is always 25. Weed Killer, Fine Line, Exceptional Talent, anything that makes Omegas cost more don’t change it

Can also do Flood Gain. Possessed works for free during the buff

[forest forum]

Well, considering I was losing 150 Magik a second, I guess I couldn't tell.

[uneven palm]

That’s just Possessed being expensive to start with

[forest forum]

It's so funny once you get BG, though.

Huntress value, baby.

[uneven palm]

Huntress does nothing for Omegas

[forest forum]

it still affects the normal shot.

Since Array procs on picking up shells, you can just spam basic attack, and immediately pick them up.

[polar ravine]

upgrading it in the rift is so far the only way i know of decreasing its cost.

[uneven palm]

It does burn some magick for you yup

[uneven palm]

Good to know

Wasn’t sure if that hammer could be upgraded

[forest forum]

Flood Gain is so much better than Fluid Gain.

[polar ravine]

well..................only via icarus

[forest forum]

Sea Uncle now feels really fun to get boons from.

Am I tripping, or did Air Quality do 70 damage minimum at one point? I thought it used to do 30 and got super buffed to 70, making it absolutely insane. I feel like it could still be, like, 55 or maybe 60.

How is it with Gust in the current patch? It just seems too hard to bother doing, as Demeter doesn't give Wind, only Water and Earth.

[polar ravine]

its pretty good.

stacking multiple sources of quick damage makes fights alot easier and gust on either your rush or spell is quick relatively painless aura of damage

[forest forum]

Tall Order is still way too stupid to bother with. Like, you kinda need to get Chaos or the weird Hera Boon to even turn it on.

Chaos is more reliable going down, thanks to well of Charon. Going up, not so much.

[rocky pier]

Not really true, if you go aphro Zeus you can often trigger it. But you need complementary gods like heph and ares, Demeter and Poseidon, etc.

[civic ocean]

Its not worth it though

[rocky pier]

Not early but you can usually make it work in zone 3 or something

[civic ocean]

Like I think even if I qualified for Tall Order I would take like 6 Hermes boons or so instead of it

Travel Deal Nitro Boost Hasty Retreat Hars Target the speed increases Stutter Step

Tall Order should give you a second dash that would be worth 8 of an element

[uneven palm]

You need 8 of one thing, not all 4

[civic ocean]

Am I missing something or should Tall Order not just be something like

Elemental Momentum

You move, channel, and strike 1% faster per element you have

[vague eagle]

I like it the way it is actually. Big requirement big boost

[civic ocean]

It’s a smaller boost than The Furies, for reference. Half of Origination!

Half of Huntress!

[spiral wadi]

tall order should give you 1 extra dash

[civic ocean]

I said that above yeah

[spiral wadi]

ah

[civic ocean]

The payoff is kinda comical tbh

[spiral wadi]

all that work just for rtyphon/chronos

[civic ocean]

At least with Ares it’s like kind of impossible to qualify for rallying cry without assembling a bunch of things that really appreciate 50% global like anvils, blades, sometimes demeter stuff, fine line, hitch, sometimes heph blasts

Wounds

[glass bone]

So when’s the 62 Tall Order run?

[civic ocean]

Idk when are you gonna do it

[spiral wadi]

isn't ares 50% olympian

[glass bone]

Although I guess that’s not that hard to do, since you don’t need to qualify for it.

[civic ocean]

Yeah but wildly Wounds is olympian

[spiral wadi]

seems legit

[glass bone]

I lost at 43 Surface Mel Coat. I am in no way ready for 62. Let alone a challenge run like that

[civic ocean]

So all of ares stuff except the pseudo crits get boosted by Cry

[past salmon]

Hallucinating
It was never 70

[civic ocean]

It was the opposite

[glass shell]

god i wish it was 70

[civic ocean]

You know if there's one thing I always thought about Zeus it was that his stuff didn't deal enough damage

[glass shell]

unironically my thoughts at lower skill levels

[civic ocean]

I'm kinda sad they cut AQ Scorch before I got to do a 62 with it

[rocky pier]

Can scorch hit for double damage with grievous blow?

[civic ocean]

I doubt it

[rocky pier]

I mean I don’t. It used to crit until recently

[glass shell]

im gonna say no but i would not be surprised if they literally only excluded specifically crit

[civic ocean]

I can test it ig?

[past salmon]

Lmao

[rocky pier]

Please do

[civic ocean]

actually thats kinda hard to test isnt it

[past salmon]

Guys I really think Zeus needs some buffs thoughts?

[past salmon]

No

[rocky pier]

Yeah imo the double strike starts at too low a percent

[civic ocean]

Electric Overload should be Chain reaction

New duo every time something gets blitzed it also gets heph blasted

[past salmon]

LOL

[civic ocean]

Its actually not speedrun viable because the blasts slow the game down too much

[rocky pier]

If you’re playing on a potato

[civic ocean]

Wait is the heph blast slowdown hardware dependent

[past salmon]

No

[junior trail]

no?

[rocky pier]

No idea

[civic ocean]

I thought that was just Ares

[past salmon]

Ares slowdown pmo so much

[rocky pier]

Why do they make heph boons ding dong even if the blast is on cooldown. That’s the real question

[civic ocean]

Anti-ASMR

[rocky pier]

Fr

[past salmon]

Cuz it sounds cool

[civic ocean]

It does sound super dope

bing bing bing CLANG

1440

[glass bone]

Hmmm… Static Shock becomes ‘Thunderous Touch’; whenever you hit an enemy with a Lightning effect, you apply Blitz. If you want, there could also be a “Lore Accurate Boon” for Zeus, where each female enemy has a 25% chance of dying upon being hit by the first blitz attack.

[junior trail]

wait i thought its unintentional? so its like heph blast/heartthrob slowdown

[rocky pier]

So I watched Boated delete chronos with kings ransom Zeus dash and now I kinda want to try. But I assume kings ransom builds are bait?

[past salmon]

No it's intentional

[civic ocean]

You have infinite tries nothing is bait

[rocky pier]

I don’t have infinite time

[civic ocean]

Oh well like you can try then lol

[past salmon]

I mean it's still good
King's ransom is the primary Strat for Surface speedruns on Medea

[rocky pier]

Do you ever get tired of just running Medea over and over

[civic ocean]

Kings Ransom is like "give up your Bridal Glow and Nexus Rush and give like 4000 gold worth of stuff to your Zeus boons"

[junior trail]

imagine savor+carnal+sunny

1 fps lessgooo

[formal pulsar]

I hate what they did to Zeus Pom scaling instead of nerfing kings ransom

[glass shell]

they gutted basically every pom scaling bro

unless you mean earlier patches which.... yeah zeus has been targeted since launch lmao

[brazen ore]

Targeted since launch and still the GOAT

[formal pulsar]

Zeus was too strong. It is true given that he is one of the best gods after all the nerfs. I just hate useless they made Poms as rewards. Nerf the things that give assload of Poms but keep Poms a competitive reward.

[rocky pier]

Poms are useful. On Heph.

Checkmate nerds.

[brazen ore]

That also imo makes it even more annoying that perseph got nerfed to not give poms half the time

[rocky pier]

I mean it used to give them all the time, and way more than intended

[glass shell]

it triggers my brain that i can't say but heph is useless anymore

[brazen ore]

I mean i dont think she should have been as pom happy as shr was but shes real stingy now smh

[glass shell]

the funny thing is, it was actually a bugfix and a buff

[brazen ore]

i am still a heph hater tbh

[glass shell]

cause the actual code said it was supposed to be 80% without poms

the patch that fixed the bug making it equal chances buffed it to its current 50%

[brazen ore]

I know that lol but the effect of it was a nerf

[rocky pier]

Bro embrace the ding dongs.

Also love handles is a fun build

[civic ocean]

Persephone encourages kinda silly behaviours so idk what they'll do about it

[brazen ore]

i am still a hater. i am not a hater in that i think it will be changed, but i think it takes too much to get set up to be any fun for me to play

[civic ocean]

I almost made you so mad

I died to Rivals 4 Typhon final phase before Babality

With no duos heph blast special Charon

[glass shell]

i still think they should just make it guaranteed level 2 and no other changes would be needed tbh

[brazen ore]

i mean it would not make me mad? like that sounds very fun for you. i would just personally rather shave my teeth

[civic ocean]

I took it because I wanted a core for Coffin Nail and also I wanted heph for Wolf Howl

Wolf Howl is so busted omg

[left moat]

what're yalls favorite cast builds? i keep just always going to zeus ring circe

[glass shell]

the forbidden meme tech is grape juice artic ring

[brazen ore]

ice wine ... .

[glass shell]

past that zeus is my personal favorite, but im partial to splashing with pos

[uneven palm]

Heph is nice and he offers zero ways to scale it so you’re free to take his armor boons

[rocky pier]

Zeus is currently bugged on Medea to get the 90% damage increase so that’s probably best for it if you want to go with a dumb cast build tbh

[rocky pier]

Grand caldera?

[forest forum]

It's hard to get, and even if you could get it, Hermes is such a valuable Boon giver, that taking Tall Order is a waste.

[civic ocean]

Anvil Ring is not a heph blast basically

So if you take it you will not be offered any of Grand Caldera, Glow, etc

So it’s a good early core to take to put heph in the pool for the defensive boons

[civic ocean]

Aspect of Charon: the way the Cleave-Cast works makes it so that you get the 100% damage increase from Hostile Environment, the Ares + Demeter duo, without having the omega cast follow you around. Sword Ring start, Ice Flourish so that enemies are frozen for the blades to fall on them, and two of Heph/Apollo/Poseidon to round out the build with Geyser Spout or the blades duos

Circe: Froth+Blitz+Air Quality+Arctic Gale. Two gales can and will damage the enemy at the same time, which turns into truly comical DPS with froth and AQ for low investment

Momus: Winner’s Circle + Geyser Spout + Mutual Destruction + Night = did my omega cast just deal five thousand damage?

[forest forum]

@sterile portal
#h2-feedback message
I believe that's how Hera's Sprint worked over a year ago. It used to be similar to Apollo's Sprint, in that nearby enemies would receive a status when used.
It would apply Hitch to nearby ememies, then after it applied to an enemy, that enemy would automatically spread it to an enemy near them, as well.

[surreal hazel]

and it was kinda busted, hitch shouldn't be that easy to spread

[buoyant elk]

Played vow of rivals 2 today and realized that close combat builds are no fun at all at this stage for me, especially with weapons like the axe (nergal). Am I missing something?

[median anvil]

axe just needs high skill to properly play against unrivaled bosses, why don't you try morrigan or mel staff

[buoyant elk]

Thanks, maybe I'll try Morrigan next! Point is: Everything works fine with the torches and so on. It just seems to me that as the difficulty increases, melee-heavy builds (including the corresponding weapons) simply aren't much fun anymore. And I hope that I've overlooked some ingredient in my build, so to speak, that will change that.

[digital juniper]

it also depends on your playstyle. Regardless of how much harder they are/more skill they require, i'll always enjoy melee weapons more

[flint widget]

i almost won a rivals 4 max frenzy underworld with white antler on but chronos just had to use his time slow, oh well too bad

[glass bone]

What build are you using for Nergal?

Cause the thing with the axes is not only do they require a lot of skill, but they also require some specific boons.

[sterile portal]

You’re probably right, my memory is really bad for old patches lol

[forest forum]

Old Engagement Ring.

[night lotus]

got only 1 last hidden aspect to unlock...and its the torches one
is it worth

[night lotus]

those who know

[surreal hazel]

Yeahhhhh. There's a reason rousing reception does not do that

[forest forum]

Do you like running?

[night lotus]

remember when Hestia's sprint boon just evaporated any skillshots?

[night lotus]

not a big cardio fan

[forest forum]

It was so worthless.

[night lotus]

it basically made the charybis and Eris fights free wins back when she was the final boss of the surface..

[forest forum]

More of a Born Gain kinda guy?

[night lotus]

born gain?

[forest forum]

Cardio Gain not your style?

[night lotus]

its fun i just never come around to do it,i just end up being more of a meathead guy

[forest forum]

Hestia's Magik replenishing boon is called Cardio Gain.

[night lotus]

i was talking about fitness omg

[forest forum]

Born Gain is Hera's.

[surreal hazel]

Then stay away from demeter's gain boon

[night lotus]

im so not familair with their names

[surreal hazel]

It's called Wait Gain

(I'm lying)

[night lotus]

the afk one for mana yeah,its not bad

i played well over 60 hours in less than 2 weeks,i think ive burned myself out from the game..

[forest forum]

Always fine to take breaks.

[night lotus]

if i take break ill have to focus on my life,and thats scary

[glass shell]

aka original apollo gain

even worse than pre buff unseen

[forest forum]

[surreal hazel]

Hey at least you could attack

Demeter took ages to even start and was slow af considering you were stood there like a lemon

It was cutscene mana gain

[forest forum]

Fluid Gain.

[surreal hazel]

Was actually slept on

Triggering on any hit from anything. Lasted until you grabbed it. Just a better grisly gain

[forest forum]

It was honestly not great for Magik heavy builds. But probably fine for less heavy builds.

[surreal hazel]

Kinda? It could proc from onegas

[forest forum]

Grisly Gain I'm not a big fan of.

[forest forum]

Usually, it didn't give enough back when I used it.

[glass shell]

i honestly liked fluid gain

[night lotus]

yk whats the most fun tho?
Hel's aspect with hestia's attack boon

[glass shell]

current pos mana is way better, but i liked pos gain for the rapid hitting, it spawned a LOT of bubbles

current ares gain is just dogwater, 10 mana and only a chance to spawn the plasma is eugh

[surreal hazel]

Posidon handing off another boon. Just like slip and flood control

[forest forum]

Water Uncle atleast feels a lot better to get boons from, now.

[glass shell]

flood control i miss you

guaranteed damage reduction + water fitness

[surreal hazel]

Slip got a really big.... glow up

[forest forum]

Speaking of Glow, how did we feel about Vent?

[surreal hazel]

the self-contradictory aspect really hurt it

[night lotus]

venting is good for the soul

[surreal hazel]

it was like an amped up Blitz that was way fussier to proc and actively hated Chain Reaction

[glass shell]

it exists

[surreal hazel]

Existed*, there is no more Vent

[forest forum]

We must keep it bottled up now.

[surreal hazel]

The pressure is too much

But also glow actually combos with blasts and Froth naturally combos with splash boons

[forest forum]

Shameless Buff was really nice, but Perfect Image still feels a little lacking. I kinda wish it gave something more unique than just a flat sps boost.

[surreal hazel]

Shameless attitude was nerfed, it used to be giga broken

or rather, well out of line with similar boons

[forest forum]

Still better than old, old Shameless

[glass shell]

im still convinced its that perfect image is trash not that shameless was brokne

[surreal hazel]

its damage bonus was the same at its worst than other boons were at their best and uhhhh

[surreal hazel]

I'd lump in uncommon grace, snuffed candle and tall order into that pile of "similar boons"

except snuffed candle is just worse for reasons it doesn't tell you

[glass shell]

oldest record i have of shameless is
While you have at least 80% Life, you deal more damage. High-Life Bonus Damage:
・Common: +10%

[forest forum]

PI just seems a little lacking compared to, say, uncommon grace. It does fall in line, though.

[glass shell]

maybe the line is trash

[forest forum]

True.

[surreal hazel]

small global bonuses aren't that exciting

They have to be small to be in line with bigger bonuses to specific things

but... is it really changing how you play?

[glass shell]

i would say its fine to have low power damaging abilities, not everything needs to be exciting

[surreal hazel]

Shameless is also a prereq for healthy rebound, which is.... a thing

[glass shell]

oh my god i never looked at that before

[surreal hazel]

as in, it's a very good thing

[glass shell]

THATS why i can never find that god damn boon

[surreal hazel]

LOL

[glass shell]

i was half convinced it got removed till i randomly find it every like 10 runs

[surreal hazel]

hard and singular pre-req

[glass shell]

and im life hp whore so i love spamming aphro and pos

[surreal hazel]

hey hey

what order does Dio's similar boon work with rebound?

I forget the name, recovers X% of health lost in a room

[forest forum]

I wish it did something like, "Increase the Power of your Omega Moves by +4/+6/+8/+9 until you get hit. Resets after 15 seconds." That way it's more interesting and works with Talent. Also, Coat Rockets.

[surreal hazel]

Flat power increases sit oddly on boons, which is why they're all so small

there's a reason Ingenious strike/flourish got nerfed into the ground

[glass shell]

yknow i actually have no idea. Vaguely off memory i wanna say it works favorably for the player, but my code brain says that it shouldn't work based on order of operations like how circe judgement doesn't work

[forest forum]

Flourish my beloved. 🥀

[surreal hazel]

wait hang n

dio heals at the end of the encounter, aphro heals as you use the door

[glass shell]

ah that be why it works, i just went off memory

[surreal hazel]

easily works favourably

[glass shell]

my brian was thinking it would be like
mel touches door > not 80% > dio heals you > you already touched the doo so no HRB as that condition already passed

[surreal hazel]

I'd wonder how it works in the fields but that's literally a non-issue

[surreal hazel]

Ingenious Flourish on the coat was just.... hrmmng, but you can still kinda do it

Grape Juice adds +100 power to every hit of the next entire move you perform

and that includes a missile salvo

[glass shell]

*depends on the move

[surreal hazel]

if you swing first then walk into a grape juice, you can use it with a whole axe whirlwind too

[forest forum]

Ingenious Flourish is still good, but I'm just not inclined to always pick it.

[surreal hazel]

works also on Blades Ospecial and Touch Ospecial

Sadly every other move that has a basic strike first and roots you in the spot can't combo with grape juice

[forest forum]

I miss using Festive Fog in Hades 1.

[surreal hazel]

Got split, but then Tipsy shot is a heck of an artillery weapon

[forest forum]

I loved getting to lob 3 toxic wine bombs at skeletons.

[surreal hazel]

Ice Wine was a duo where the biggest benefit of it wasn't in the description

Chill is all very cute, extra damage is great, but making it just a targeted explosion instead of a projectile was amazing

Well, it's lightning lance

[forest forum]

Onw of H2's Dio Boons should have been to make your Cast lob and place your Cast where it lands, like Lance and the Hestia/Hades ones, and place Festive Fog.

[surreal hazel]

yeah, except they split it, because they wanted to have one boon for each broad style

[forest forum]

Dio Boons just feel weird and empty in H2.

[surreal hazel]

Fog for adding raw damage because you're htting big, power for multihitting omegas, reckless abandon for machinegun hit builds (except it's kinda bad), Tipsy shot for cast builds

and I guess some cash and max hp if you're not after damage

[forest forum]

At least hangover can proc origination on Vow runs that cut out boons.

[surreal hazel]

oh yeah, hangover for omega builds

[surreal hazel]

it's olympian, so it makes sense, Death Warrant also counts but ehhhh

[glass bone]

I think I’m getting better at Rival Chronos folks

[forest forum]

It's not awful, but it's not Athena levels.

[surreal hazel]

I don't know if it's fixed yet, but Total Eclipse's Softness upgrade also procced Origination because of reasons

[glass bone]

Just got another 50 Fear clear done (Anubis)

I did still need Renewed Faith, but less in this run.

[forest forum]

Wait, what? Does Starfall count?

[glass bone]

Though it could also be that I stacked up HP and dodge chance from Hot Pot

[surreal hazel]

Shine?

iirc no, the fact that Softness worked is a bug

[forest forum]

Whatever it's actually called.

[surreal hazel]

or was, not checked if they fixed it

Selene isn't an olympian, thus nothing she does should proc origination

[forest forum]

Remember when Freeze and Gust proced Origination together?

[surreal hazel]

(Yes yes, Godsent Hestia causes scorch and that counts but shuddup)

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, they had to change that, but here's a question for you

[forest forum]

I have still gotta finish the godsent minor prophecy...

[surreal hazel]

Steam, is it an olymian curse and if so, who does it belong to?

or in other words, does steam and scorch give you origination, and does steam and froth give origination?

[forest forum]

It's Postia's.

[glass shell]

is it even a curse? i thought it was just a aoe DOT

curse would imply its a debuff on the enemy, not a damaging effect

[glass bone]

The tooltip in game says Steam is not a curse.

[forest forum]

It's a key word and a status, evidently.

[glass bone]

“A burning cloud that removes Froth from foes and rapidly deals damage. Lasts 2 Sec.”

[forest forum]

Curse /= Status, I suppose.

[glass shell]

key word, but not status pretty sure

its a AOE dot, it doesn't apply to the enemy the enemy just takes damage standing in it

think zeus cast

if the enemy teleported out after getting hit with steam, they still don't tkae damage from it

[glass bone]

If it was a curse, I think it should belong to Hestia since A. the inciting cause of the curse is Hestia’s fire, and B. the description is of a “burning cloud”, I.e. Hestia.

[surreal hazel]

it used to stick to the target like a curse, does it not now?

[forest forum]

I guess it's in the same category as Psychic Bond, and it just does damage while out.

[glass shell]

honestly i have no idea i might just be speaking out of my ass

that has always been my impression of steam, that it was a AOE cloud that dealt damage not a debuff

[surreal hazel]

pretty sure I found it was a posideon curse

since it basically replaced Slip (as it was at the time)

but you kept origination up from scorch if that was still in play

[forest forum]

Maybe it could count as both a Hestia and Poseidon, that way you can't just have Slip/Froth or Scorch with it to proc Origination.

[surreal hazel]

if it counted as both, then it wouldn't combine with either

it would need to be attributed to a different god name, or none

[forest forum]

It's really up to them how they want to interpret it if they want to go forward with it.

[surreal hazel]

it is a bit silly that a duo interferes with origination but I guess freezerburn exists so uhhhh

[digital juniper]

just take 3 status curses /s

[surreal hazel]

Freezerburn is also just a rejigging of a cut boon called Fire Extinguisher, which is why it's hestia damage and a red lightning strike

[forest forum]

Duos are out here removing curses.

[surreal hazel]

(random aside, but hey, some history)

[forest forum]

I remember old Poseidon Cast. I'm not sure about how good it was to this day.

[surreal hazel]

Which one, the old one or the old old one?

[forest forum]

Old, old.

[surreal hazel]

Gyser Ring? Heh

[forest forum]

Yup

[surreal hazel]

And lived on for a while as gyser ring

to make the silliest dark side combo ever

Dark side, Sanctity (all casts are omega), Lightning Lance and Gyser Spout

[forest forum]

Did it ever actually work with Charon Aspect?

[surreal hazel]

Mash cast button to make everything go boom

[surreal hazel]

I think so? But gyser spout was coded in a way that basically broke stuff and required a lot of exceptions

it didn't detonate your omega cast immediately, it deleted your cast and spawned an entirely different explosion projectile

[quasi mica]

Pretty sure it applied the extra damage to your cleave cast properly but also... Why would you take it with Charon is the issue

[forest forum]

Charon aspect had the problem of not working with all Omega Cast boons. Now Skull has Possessed Array and it is absolute chaos for Omega Attack boons.

[quasi mica]

With geyser ring you could just use your omega cast immediately without the more expensive and slower axe omega special

[surreal hazel]

yeah but it wasnt getting the +30% size and damage properly

since gyser ring wasn't actually an omega cast

in fact variable cast durations didn't really exist until winner's circle was added, Charon's extended cast time was somthing of a hack that caused a lot of weird issues

[forest forum]

At least Super Nova works.

They ended up just gutting the cast duration up for Charon.

Not that it mattered if you just got Lucid Gain and just spammed Omega Special. At least we have better Aspects for cast builds, I think.

[quasi mica]

it does basically serve as a buff to lucid gain charon because now if you fumble your positioning enough times that you don't have the magic to use your special you don't have to wait 3 years for your cast to expire naturally to regen

[surreal hazel]

iirc lucid gain didn't proc if you had old gyser spout, since the cast didn't "end" properly

[quasi mica]

Did old geyser spout and new lucid gain ever coexist? Because originally lucid just recovered magic when standing on your cast

[surreal hazel]

yes

old gyser ring and new lucid gain never coexisted, but the gyser spout that insta-detonated did exist with the insta-gain version of lucid

for quite some months, in fact

[limber swan]

geyser spout and lucid gain are pretty poggers if you have winner's circle

im a big fan of winner's circle

[surreal hazel]

we all are

it's so good

[sage flame]

new lucid gain?? I thought lucid gain has basically remained unchanged in it's mechanics am I crazy

oh wait yeah

didn't it used to do magick over time when you stood in your cast lol

I gotta get my memory checked man im loosing it

[limber swan]

@spiral wadi so im trying the build you linked the other day with aspect of circe, air quality makes the gales and rapture ring so busted

[surreal hazel]

basically every gain did, save a few

[limber swan]

im never not proccing blitz. theres just no downtime for it

[sage flame]

tranquil and glamour are the same mechanically right? obv buffs have happened

[surreal hazel]

nah, way better now

tranquil wasn't proportional to max mana like it is now, Glamour only forced one enemy to be weak

[sage flame]

oh that's right

[surreal hazel]

and you had to be near it to gain anything

[sage flame]

glamour lmao

yeah I really need my brain checked then

[civic ocean]

Yeah AQ Circe with blitz is dope

I like mixing froth in as well

[surreal hazel]

we all like a bit of froth

[glass bone]

Honestly, Circe feels like a perfect weapon now.

If there’s one game balance thing I want in 1.0, it’s to have Circe be left as is. No nerfs. No buffs. Nothing is needed.

It’s flexible, with varying options for damage or safety, and it’s unique (the only other cast weapon really is Charon, and they play very differently).

[limber swan]

i still wish aspect of pan wasnt nerfed so hard

[surreal hazel]

I'd argue momus and Persephone are cast-centric, at least partially

[glass bone]

Persephone? But that got changed to the OSpecial I thought

And also Olympian damage

[surreal hazel]

yeah but the extra levels and sprout gaining from olympian damage benefits casts more than most

[limber swan]

i think persephone still really works for cast builds

[glass bone]

I guess. My main idea of Persephone was the blast build, of which Hephaestus’s cast is not a blast setup.

[surreal hazel]

Circe is probably also the most regular attack friendly staff since the leash is easier to use if you're just brawling

not by much though

you'll kinda lean on that a little since there are no cast-hammers

[glass bone]

I can see it. Anubis is ‘the attack staff’ in theory, but that just feels weird. And Mel Staff is Attack only to weave Attacks into Specials

I’ve rarely gone for hammers with Circe. If I see it and a god I don’t want, I’ll obviously go for the hammer. But really the only hammer I’m aiming for with Circe is the Melting Slash for minibosses.

[surreal hazel]

swipe?

[glass bone]

Yes. My bad.

I may take the attack speed ones too, but I’m mainly fishing for Melting Swipe, especially in Surface.

[limber swan]

okay, how the heck should i be using the morrigan

whats the sequence i should be using

[glass bone]

Like boons? Or the best combo?

Oh, the latter. I think the combo is Attack -> Charge OAttack -> Special

[limber swan]

and boons too i guess

[surreal hazel]

Ocast counts

get your hands on Winner's Circle and it's a very viable top tri of the triad

[limber swan]

i guess if i were to go with attack -> Oattack -> special getting like hera on attack and then maybe poseidon or hestia on special would be good?

[glass bone]

I think you could also play it akin to Artemis, and just focus on the OAttack (with Weed Killer and Sweeping Ambush).

[limber swan]

with omega cast probably still go with poseidon and apollo/ares whatever i can get my hands on to make the omega cast better

[forest forum]

Does Air Quality affect Circe's Psychic Leash?

[civic ocean]

Yes I believe so

[limber swan]

yee it does

[forest forum]

How do we feel about Hestia's boons at the moment? Some of them I don't even care to pick up. Aside from Scorch, Cardio Gain, and the one that launches your Cast, nothing much else from her is very useful for general builds. I'll take the fireball on Omega Special sometimes on Ax, Staff, or Skull, but it still feels like I barely get anything out of Hestia heavy runs otherwise.

[civic ocean]

Hestia good

[surreal hazel]

Dumb factoid. It even affects your sheep nibble when twilight cursed

[civic ocean]

Snuffed candle should work on non wep dmg and the legendary shouldn’t force require the ring but other than that Hestia is dope

[glass bone]

Big fan of Hestia. Cardio Gain and Scorch are highlights of course, but I like some of the other boons (like Flash Fry or Snuffed Candle).

[forest forum]

Heph can be hit or miss, but what I like from Heph I love. Very different feel from all the other gods' boons.

[civic ocean]

Heph good

[quasi mica]

I wish Hestia had 1 or 2 more support boons that worked regardless of scorch like snuffed candle hot pot and the infusion but aside from that she's super solid

[surreal hazel]

flash fry was changed to not need scorch for that very reason

[forest forum]

Aphro is the one where I'll take just about everything depending on the weapon. Just really reliable.

[quasi mica]

wait it was? then nvm hestia bestia

[forest forum]

Hol up.

Hestia actially has more options now if you already got specific core boons.

She kinda needed that, imo.

[civic ocean]

Whenever a god feels underwhelming to me I always ask myself what it is that I am missing

[forest forum]

Poseidon always feel like I need to go in with a plan, or get him early.

But Froth makes him more versitile if you don't have a plan or aiming for an Omega Cast build.

His Attack and Special also feel beter than they used to, and I actually consider them now.

Demeter almost always gets me some kind of value, and Arctic Gale is really nice for making sure Origination procs on Vow or Denial runs.

[civic ocean]

Buried Treasure, Sea Star, Hydraulic Might and Water Fitness are all fantastic IMO

His cores require some thoughtful planning to be strong but I have always liked that about gods like that

[forest forum]

15+ HP per Wateris really nice.

[civic ocean]

I wish they would revert the change they made to Artificer and Buried Treasure

[forest forum]

Hydraulic is just kinda free. I can't really complain if it's the best I can get.

Poseidon + Demeter run to aim to get a ton of HP.

Getting Sea Star early really does feel good when it procs. Buried Treasure I wish felt better.

[civic ocean]

Poseidon Demeter Aphrodite Ares Apollo and Heph are all able to combine to give lots of survival

Ares ends up being the damage engine with Mutual Destruction

Which is my candidate for one of the most underrated boons in the game I think

[glass bone]

@civic ocean Yeah, Mel Coat Poseidon works. Took King’s Tide Exhaust Rider Mel Coat to 43 thus far. Next up is 50 for me.

[spiral wadi]

yeaa aq is really strong on circe, usually i don't find myself getting it often but when it is available it hits 🔥

[modern nest]

Im leveling up athenas boon. My idea is to start with Judgement and Strenth. And hope to get death mid run.

Moon, Unseen, Boatman, Queen, Strength, Judgement.

[glass bone]

If you want, you could use up your Death Defiances and aim for Renewed Faith with rerolls.

[uneven palm]

Or just take the cards you want to begin with

[forest forum]

Any death defiance turns strength off, even ones given mid run from Athena and Chaos.

[forest forum]

Just a heads up.

[spare sphinx]

I want to play with the most broken build possible
What do you guys recommend?

[shrewd gorge]

holy moly i think i actually just hit the most insane build

[glass bone]

Most broken build is Medea Storm / Smolder Ring cast build, with Zeus Special and Hera/Ares attack.
Then there’s a build for every weapon.
Circe and Anubis are probably the two strongest staffs. Circe can use Storm, Smolder, Anvil, Tidal, or Rapture Ring, though a few extra boons are needed/recommended (Storm recommends Lightning Lance and Double Strike, Smolder recommends some extra way to deal scorch damage like Pyro Technique, Anvil and Tidal recommend Winner’s Circle, Lucid Gain, and Geyser Spout, and Rapture Ring requires Air Quality). Then Anubis can use either Zeus (but with Thermal Dynamics), Hestia, or Poseidon Attack, Aphrodite or Apollo Special, and personally, Cardio Gain.

The list can go on, but for the moment, there’s 3 strong builds. You can make a broken setup with every weapon (even the ‘janky’ or ‘bad’ weapons) at 32 Fear and a bit above

[rocky pier]

Coat feels like the absolute worst weapon, I’d like my mind changed here. Just felt like I had no damage against Typhon.

[civic ocean]

Try taking the stuff that gives you damage

[uneven palm]

Yeah I find like any combo of Zeus Ares Hestia Hera Poseidon maybe Heph now tends to work out on the coat. Special attack attack repeat, open rounds with O specials for more missiles flying about on Mel at least.

[tough pasture]

Uh...friends...is shocking loss on morrigan zeus attack bugged? Because...uh...it's somehow happening at like near 75% for me.

There was a room in tartarus where 3 (maybe 4?) enemies got destroyed consecutively by shocking loss.

[spiral wadi]

prob just luck

[ocean ibex]

is deep dissent or gigaros dash better on medea for chronos?

[digital juniper]

i have no idea how rivals affects the spawns (i only have 3 chronos clears), but on non rivals, especially with medea, i never felt like the spawns are an issue

gigaros gives the debuff which gives 30% more damage right? if so i feel like it’d be very solid, since you’d be dashing besides chronos frequently anyway

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1405451424443404380/Hades_II_-_2025-08-14_12-20-42_AM.mp4 everything is pink, how did i manage this in pain 3, i'm on pain 0 rn

[digital juniper]

holy bullet hell

[spiral wadi]

does sightless shepherd not play with rivals on

[surreal hazel]

it just does the boss version of whatever music was playing, just like it normally does

[spiral wadi]

hm, i could have sworn i haven't heard sightless shepherd play at all during polyphemus in unseen

like there's a specific part of the song that's ingrained into my mind when i first started playing in warsong, and now i just haven't heard it again

ig i'll pay closer attention later

it's like me listening to the typhon rivals theme and thinking "wait is this even playing in the typhon fight" cuz in 4th phase i feel like i'm only hearing the high-gear section of og typhon theme, and nothing from the rivals theme, maybe im just hallucinating

[surreal hazel]

I can hear the ticktocking

[spiral wadi]

ye i'm hallucinating i finally hear the high gear part i was looking for in the titan mix

[surreal hazel]

Just listening to it now... that poor drumkit

[spiral wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-susie-drums-rock-chapter-3-gif-12935660215166869287

[surreal hazel]

not as much as the End of Time, mind you

which is basically a drumkit solo

[spiral wadi]

yeaa the drums going insane during end of time is so funny yet also extremely appropriate

[slate trench]

possessed array doesn't spawn heart throbs?

[uneven palm]

Nope. Non-gain things that happen specifically when you spend magick (Heartthrobs, pikes, power surge) don’t go with Possessed. There’s a lotta weird carve outs around that hammer

[median anvil]

all the other magick hammers say you "use" x magick but possessed array specifically says you "lose" x magick

[surreal hazel]

also means there's no way to change that 25 cost, up or down

but it's still an omega attack, so yay for free exceptional talent and weedkiller etc...

[tough pasture]

does vow of fangs lead to fewer enemies in vow of hordes?

[surreal hazel]

you wish

[tough pasture]

Maybe I'm misremembering but in hades 1 double armored enemies led to fewer enemies when the +60% more heat pact was active.

I was wondering if there was something similar in hades 2.

[surreal hazel]

maybe actually, but that depends if fanged enemies have a higher spawn cost

as far as I know, a room has a maximum amount of credits it can use to spawn enemies (subject to various rules), hordes just increases that

[tough pasture]

i expect them to since they're tougher enemies. (The "spawn cost" mechanic was present in hades 1 as well.)

[surreal hazel]

well then ultimately it's not a question about hordes as such

more about fangs increasing the cost of that enemy compared to a regular Dire version

Hordes might also increase the maximum allowable enemies on screen at once too, thinking about it

[civic ocean]

Vow of fangs can lead to fewer enemies period IIRC

[surreal hazel]

so it is just raising the cost slightly

[civic ocean]

Dunno

[surreal hazel]

ah here we go, just looked and I can see now there's a cost multiplier for each of the Fang effects

[uneven palm]

Yeah some Fangs perks raise the “weight” a little, so it can technically lead to slightly fewer enemies but I don’t think it’s enough to consider “good” and also some fangs perks are nightmares

[surreal hazel]

I guess it's more to cap the amount spawning on one wave as well

so you're not swamped with enemies surrounded by projectiles and somesuch

[median anvil]

speeder clanger auto watcher in thessaly

[surreal hazel]

yeah we're looking at like, a 20% cost increase to spawn an elite with one perk

it's not a lot

[uneven palm]

And hordes is still gonna be “more than you woulda got”

[surreal hazel]

Also huh, seems obvious in retrospect, but the enemy spawn cost also scales the cash they drop on death

[sage flame]

speed meta add fangs trust

[uneven palm]

Clanger enters the chat

[median anvil]

extra health perk 👍

[uneven palm]

just don’t get those perks ez

[tall notch]

add onion in real time speedruns so that you don't have to pick up boons

boons are a crutch anyway

[digital juniper]

boons take time to choose, imagine how much you could save if you didn’t have to pick one!

[civic ocean]

Lower cognitive load

[digital juniper]

first time running a cast build and circe. storm ring looks to be the move, what else should i get/keep in mind?

[spiral wadi]

ye storm ring's one of the better offensive options, personally i just don't like using it relative to like blitz, but it's still really good, i find storm ring with hitch is p good

would prob say ideally scorch on atk

or if ur lucky enough u can get splash on atk, then froth t2, then lightning froth duo

[digital juniper]

ill start with bangle and see where the build takes me. apollo any good for the build?

[glass bone]

Idk if it’s for everyone, but in my opinion, you can go full Zeus, with the main potentially controversial boon to pick up being Lightning Lance.

[spiral wadi]

apollo sprint is generally solid, u can get backstab t2 later, other than that there isn't much going for him unless u have like +30 atk hammer or the +2 connecting special hammer

backstab works with psychic leash btw

apollo cast is really good too

[glass bone]

I have used Lightning Lance for my first two 50 Fear clears (i.e. first Underworld and first surface), and I love it so much. My main reason is that you can play much further away, which is a big deal. It also then means you’re able to grab Shocking Loss if you wish.

[spiral wadi]

yea lightning lance makes sense, i just actively avoid it since it means having to switch between an entirely different cast playstyle lmao

[glass bone]

Other than that… best hammer is Melting Swipe for minibosses, because staffs don’t have a cast hammer. Though you can go for the usual hammers like the rapid ones to also have some great attacks and specials. Go for Double Strike for the Storm Ring. Aim for Air Quality if you get Arctic Gusts. And DO NOT USE WINNERS CIRCLE.

[uneven palm]

Tbh winners circle is ok you can just cast again

[spiral wadi]

winner's circle actually helps on surface since enemies like prom, eris etc move around a lot

[digital juniper]

i was about to mention how red has a 62f circe run, only to see he has multiple

wait winner's circle isnt good? isnt it more burst damage?

[spiral wadi]

and i imagine this'd help with chronos too

[uneven palm]

And if you’re doing Omega casts it’s huge

[spiral wadi]

winner's circle is pretty solid, you just have to use cast again and ur all good lol, it helps to more quickly reposition ur cast

[glass bone]

Actually, hmmmm… maybe that is the right play. Cause that’s more Lightning Lance damage.

[digital juniper]

oh yeah i meant to ask too, ocast or normal casts for circe?

[spiral wadi]

either or works

[uneven palm]

I do omegas if I have magick lol

[spiral wadi]

i find that for repeated runs normal cast is perfectly fine, tho if ur able to invest in omegas it's really strong too

[uneven palm]

At like ultra high that’s harder

[glass bone]

I aim to use normal casts, but use OCasts at the start. Aiming for normal casts means you don’t have to worry about Hubris

[spiral wadi]

ye i believe 2 62f clears for both uw and surface

[digital juniper]

im on very low fear, so i dont have to worry about that for now

im still getting used to H2, 35 nights to clear chronos 3x and typhon once

[glass bone]

If you are going for OCasts, I feel like Lucid Gain, Geyser Spout, and Winner’s Circle are the three to pick up.

Though also there is Local Climate…

[spiral wadi]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxlVD5KS3RmLcmwN60HaEp_jYMpyDFsxgT?si=QjuFBlKKFa-ILoTk

[digital juniper]

what the hell did i just see

[spiral wadi]

thunder

i think it was like day 1 or 2 of patch 11

[digital juniper]

shocking loss works on bosses apparently because that might aswell be an instakill

[spiral wadi]

it's too much boons to reliably get at high fear so i haven't really gotten a clear with a build like that again so far

[civic ocean]

chronos p2 always looks so goofy when you have high dps

[spiral wadi]

wait huh i don't remember shocking loss working on bosses

[glass bone]

Shocking Loss works on most Wardens (minibosses), but not Guardians (bosses).

[spiral wadi]

fr

[digital juniper]

no im being sarcastic, you dps'd him so fast it might aswell be an instakill like it was shocking loss

[glass bone]

Oh

[spiral wadi]

ahh gotcha

[median anvil]

poseidon should say "haha yes!" whenever froth triggers

[digital juniper]

wait can shocking loss proc from storm ring?

[median anvil]

it can proc from any source of damage

[spiral wadi]

shocking loss should proc from any dmg u deal

[median anvil]

theoretically it can proc from frinos jumping on someone

[glass bone]

It’s any first instance of damage.

[civic ocean]

In my make every god legendary OP agenda Zeus is just "every bolt of lightning strikes twice"

[median anvil]

so king's ransom

[digital juniper]

ohh so its not any zeus damage. i got it very late in the only run i had so wasn't able to enjoy it much. might just try to aim for all zeus and hope for it

[civic ocean]

idk kinda but like two instances

[spiral wadi]

frinos strat

[digital juniper]

but otherwise circe basic build, scorch attack, dem special, zeus cast, and maybe apollo sprint and gain?

[spiral wadi]

seems good

[median anvil]

you don't need a gain with circe

[digital juniper]

oh yeah im just used to plan for a gain too

[civic ocean]

Only if you want to ocast

[spiral wadi]

u do if ur aiming for omegas (and this isn't high fear i don't think)

[glass bone]

^

I would still then recommend going for Arctic Gale (and then Air Quality), Geyser Spout if you’re going OCast, and Lightning Lance and/or Winner’s Circle if that’s your thing (you want Winner’s Circle if you are using OCasts).

[spiral wadi]

i find that arctic gale can still do work even without air quality, esp if u have something like froth, otherwise it still helps overall w/ slowing down projectiles

(they should make it so arctic gale scales crazy with poms cuz the ramp-up is abysmally low)

[glass bone]

Obviously it can work without Air Quality. The slowdown itself is great. I’m just saying that Air Quality should be on your radar if you’re using Arctic Gale.

[spiral wadi]

tru

[glass bone]

You know… to this end, I’ve had an idea as of late to make some guide to 32. I.e. a 3 part process;

1. A guide to vows
2. A guide to all Rival Bosses (because getting accustomed to the regular fights should be done before stepping into 32 Fear)
3. A guide to the “best”/easiest to pilot build for all weapons, on both paths.

[digital juniper]

arctic gale is my go to with a lot of runs, curse for origination and just a lot of safety

[spiral wadi]

every aspect, both paths, so that's 18 x 2 = 36 dedicated pages per aspect, sounds fun

[digital juniper]

and even if i’m going with another cast, the other dem one that gives gust is also very nice

[glass bone]

No, that’s 48.

[spiral wadi]

ah right forgot about the secret aspects lmao

[glass bone]

The only problem is… well… despite me having several 32, 40, and 50 clears, I haven’t yet done all 48 paths.

[spiral wadi]

tru, i just personally hate sprint gust just cuz it's both a little inconsistent when i use it and also messes with my muscle memory on fights like rtyphon

[glass bone]

I’m missing both Nyx and Shiva clears, several clears for weapons I’ve done for Underworld but not for Surface (and a few vice versa), and also a few more that just aren’t at 32 yet.

[spiral wadi]

and also i think it's bugged where sprint gust gets culled when chronos shows up in place of zeus during the fight

[digital juniper]

i meant cast gust, forgot what the boon is called. sprint gust is still good for me because i don’t have much muscle memory with anything

[spiral wadi]

i have to double check cuz it's stopped happening to me for some reason

[glass bone]

And also Rival Prom and Typhon are just the absolute worst for me to deal with.

[spiral wadi]

yea fair lmao

ah arctic ring is the freeze cast, arctic gale is the gust

[digital juniper]

i knew i had it wrong! yeah i meant arctic ring is my go to and arctic gale is very nice if im going dem but have another cast

[spiral wadi]

yeaa it's why prom and typhon are both the only bosses i've had to save state to practice

[digital juniper]

rtyphon harder than rchronos? i’ve seen very mixed opinions on that

[spiral wadi]

i think both are still insanely difficult, but with rchronos he's still very much predictable and once u do learn his patterns he's relatively straightforward

rtyphon is fine tbh, it's just 4th phase when things go south cuz it's just so much spam coming at you

and it would be fine if it was just a bunch of consistent attacks at once, but it's not cuz typhon's head-bomb attack thing splits inconsistently

[glass bone]

Here’s what I think. In a vacuum, Rival Chronos is possibly harder than Rival Typhon for most fear levels. But considering the wall that is Prom, you’re already hurt quite a bit going into it. And also there’s just so much stuff being spammed as red said.

[digital juniper]

hmm so from my understanding now that rchronos is just unrivaled but dialed up to 11, where typhon comes with a lot of bs thrown at you throughout the fight?

[spiral wadi]

ye

[glass bone]

To this point, I’ve cleared Rival Chronos about 4 times now (low fear, Circe 50, Mel Torches 50, and Anubis 50). Meanwhile I’ve cleared Typhon only twice (low few without frenzy, and Circe 50).

[spiral wadi]

and im saying this as a strength player who likes to dodge, rchronos is beyond easier to dodge than rtyphon LOL

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1403193000418611350/Hades_II_-_2025-08-07_6-45-54_PM_-_TIME_CANNOT_BE_STOPPED.mp4

[glass bone]

It would have been 3 or 4 today, but Typhon is just the worst so I failed two separate Anubis runs from the amount of damage Typhon dishes out.

[digital juniper]

holy hell that’s a lot. also regardless of difficulty typhon looks so good here. SGG killed it with the visuals

[glass bone]

I feel like that Chicken Soup person was right with what they did. They’ve done like 40 runs against Rival Typhon, though even then I don’t think they’re perfect and it was Frenzy 0 I think?

[spiral wadi]

yeaa turning off rivals, typhon just looks so pale in comparison lmao

[digital juniper]

semi-related question, how do you embed a video to discord like this? i still have to upload to imgur and no clue how to do it this way

[spiral wadi]

i upload to a different server and then link it here

[glass bone]

Actually, hmmm.. maybe Typhon in a vacuum is still harder because you’re given more resources, so the scaling of Typhon is higher.

Honestly, I feel like I might just take different vows to get 50 fear on some other weapons. Like… Pain 3, Scars 3, and Onion I think is the same fear as Rival Prom + Typhon.

[spiral wadi]

makes sense

[glass bone]

Ok, got an idea for that 32 Guide;
“How to defeat Rival Prom and Typhon; Don’t fight them. The end”

[spiral wadi]

tbf there is already a rivals prom guide in the speedrun server

[glass bone]

No, but I feel like the guide for 32 would just be cheese strats (Dark Side, Wolf Howl Armor, Moon Water, and Knuckle Bones Hitch for Prom specifically)

Oh. I should probably read that.

[spiral wadi]

apparently prom and heracles switch between being the "primary" attacker and the "support" attacker, too bad i have never learned how to recognize this and just go with what my gut tells me

heracles is running off-screen? he's prob about to fire a projectile at me

[digital juniper]

im hoping bacon will be making a general guide like he did for H1, massively helped me start it off. and will greatly reduce the amount of "noobish" questions i have here

[glass bone]

Or wait. I think that’s spoilers 6alalloo maybe didn’t know?

[spiral wadi]

o fr?

[digital juniper]

no no its okay, im in this server talking in these channels. it is on me if spoilers are mentioned here

[glass bone]

Uh… Heracles doesn’t exist. He died a few thousand years ago to those snakes. The guy that you fight is Hercules.

[spiral wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/hercules-hades-thumbs-up-good-great-gif-5148075

[digital juniper]

i've known about heracles being in the prom fight for a while, but i have dellibiretaly not watched any videos of the fight, that alone is good enough for me to "not be spoiled"

[glass bone]

This part I know. But dealing with the two of them feels like a 33/33/33 where I either clear it somehow super easily, die to the huge amount of attacks, or die to Timer.

[digital juniper]

also feel free to call me 6 for simplicity. long story behind my name

[glass bone]

Oh. Jungle Book?

[spiral wadi]

yea fair, thankfully i've gotten consistent enough to where i usually shouldn't die out to timer on the prom fight, it usually just comes down to whether i can survive

[glass bone]

Like I made it to Rival Typhon with a Blue 3 pommed Hestia Anubis attack, but died when I had Heroic and a few pommed Hestia Anubis Attack and Wolf Howl Armor.

[digital juniper]

nah it goes into linguistics and the 6 being a replacement for the first letter of my name in arabic. no counterpart to it in english

[glass bone]

I see

[spiral wadi]

ye it's prob why 99% of high fear surface runs put antler on for summit

the hp scaling on surface is big problem

[digital juniper]

enemies suddenly get significantly tankier, right?

[spiral wadi]

yupp

thankfully they did tune some things so enemies like charybdis aren't abysmal to fight at high fear anymore

[digital juniper]

yeah i've noticed that too, especially those big automatons

[spiral wadi]

ye, still mitigated as long as u know what builds will get the most damage output

[glass bone]

Yeah, despite the fact that Rival Hecate is annoying causing some resets to RNG, and also Poly and Eris are super easy compared to like every other rival fight (save for Eris Timer), I feel like I enjoy 50 Fear Underworld more than 50 Fear Surface.

[digital juniper]

i enjoy feeling strong so i've honestly been following builds by asking here or checking out what people are using in crossroads

[spiral wadi]

like for example i was playing around w/ mel torches and had hitch spec aphro cast, really good room clears but i struggled to find a decent atk so it faltered when eris kept hopping around 3rd phase and i was about to die to time i think

then of course having a heroic blitz and nothing else (besides born gain) got me up to scylla one time lmao

[digital juniper]

what weapon/aspect works well with romantic spark? really wanna give a RM build a shot because i love ME in H1

[spiral wadi]

there's so many builds i had with circe that were so fun and also strong but never made it to completion so those builds never saw the light of making it onto the page

prob supay ig

[sage flame]

supay is probably the most logical aspect to do it with

[digital juniper]

non hidden aspect choice? still got a ways to go to get those

gonna focus on nergal first because im a fan of the big bonk

[sage flame]

but any aspect can do it well, prefer something mobile to minimize the time before you can dash/sprint to activate spark

all the axes minus charon can do this well with psychic whirlwind if you want to go down that path

[digital juniper]

skull maybe? dash-special-dash for maximum mobility between downtimes?

[sage flame]

yeah totally, romantic spark is super flexible

[spiral wadi]

aspect of medea should be changed to inflict poison

[digital juniper]

possesive array has made me a massive fan of skull, medea with possessive array is what got me my first (and currently only) typhon kill

and also because it plays somewhat like beowulf, probably my favourite aspect in H1, gets even more points

[civic ocean]

Wait we DO!?

[spiral wadi]

i literally have not seen a 62f surface clear that hasn't run antler on summit that's also not me

i saw a vod recently where they even ran antler while using strength

[median anvil]

most of chinese high fear guy's surface 62s are without antler

[spiral wadi]

ig i need to watch more vods then

ah i see they use knuckle bones

[civic ocean]

The hammer roller

[spiral wadi]

oh yea huh

dw they'll change judgement to allow hammer rolls

(or fates keepsake, i remember seeing smth like that and i want that now)

[median anvil]

i saw it happen in the mel staff run and rewinded to make sure i saw correctly 😂

[civic ocean]

watch the charon run its so funny

bro spends like 7 dice on Giga Cleaver and im like "word"

[digital juniper]

rolling hammers? is that with icarus’ keepsake?

[civic ocean]

it's a modded version of the game that allows you to re-roll Daedalus Hammers

like boons

[spiral wadi]

dw they'll give us a keepsake that grants us 1/2/3 "universal rolls" 🤌

[civic ocean]

Thats like bad right

[elfin forge]

they probably wouldn't be special rolls, probably "+3 rerolls that can be used on hammers" which adds on to the other reroll possibilities you have

it wouldn't make sense to have a separate pool of special dice, I think

[spiral wadi]

yea fair

it's just cuz in my mind there's arcana cards that give rerolls for specific things, without it the keepsake would then just be for hammers

1.0 void meta

[elfin forge]

Champions allow dice to work on Boons
Enchantress allow dice to work on Doors

And then keepsake allow dice to work on hammers, maybe

I wonder what happens if you have no reroll arcana active, then mod in some rerolls

are they literally useless

[spiral wadi]

is there one tied to charon wells

[digital juniper]

oh yeah i’ve seen those in H1, thought you were talking about submitted runs to crossroads and said maybe you can reroll icarus’ hammers

[spiral wadi]

icarus if he locked in

every 7 encounters get a hammer upgrade

[civic ocean]

I think I just got the worst ephyra ever

Actually nah it has a miniboss and medea its not that bad

[spiral wadi]

which miniboss

[digital juniper]

that boar miniboss is horrible to play against

[civic ocean]

hero satyr

damn the PoS in Ephyra is only 3

[cerulean panther]

Can Shocking Loss hit minibosses?

[civic ocean]

anything without a health bar iirc

[cerulean panther]

Yeah, this Queen Lamia just exploded on contact.

[median anvil]

he modded his game to get results faster in high fear runs

rng is very decisive in fear/speedruns and it gets annoying to fail so many runs in a row just because you lost the lottery

h1 also had a very specific set of mods to lower the rng, modded and unmodded runs were put in different categories for both heat and speed

the same will probably happen to h2 when 1.0 launches

[median anvil]

yes, it can happen in judgement runs and with pig, if you roll fates but none of champions or enchantress

[elfin forge]

lol

[glass bone]

Ok, I want to give an idea of that 32 Fear guide thing I had from a few hours ago. Let me know what else to fill in for the missing ones and if there’s something to change;

Staff:

• Mel Staff: Aphrodite Special, Dual Moonshot. Use Huntress.
• Circe: Storm Ring (mix up with Lightning Lance + Double Strike, Arctic Gale + Air Quality, or Winner’s Circle + Geyser Spout + Lucid Gain. Option to replace with Anvil, Smolder, Rapture, or Tidal Ring)
• Momus: ??? Use Night
• Anubis: Hestia Attack + Cardio Gain (add in Aphrodite / Apollo Special)

Blades:

• Mel Blades: Hestia Attack + Pyro Technique (option to replace with OAttack setup with Weed Killer)
• Artemis: Sweeping Ambush + Demeter / Apollo / Aphrodite? Attack (Flood, Born, or Ionic Gain. Option to replace Sweeping Ambush with Weed Killer if not found)
• Pan: Hestia Attack + Trick Knives
• Morrigan: OAttack Apollo + Sweeping Ambush?

Axes:

• Mel Axe: Aphrodite / Apollo / Hera Attack, Dashing Heave. Use Huntress (Alt moveset with Psychic Whirlwind, Apollo / Hera Attack, and Weed Killer).
• Charon: Apollo Legendary (Nova Special + Lucid Gain + any third option). Use Eternity.
• Thanatos: Demeter / Hera / Apollo Attack + Weed Killer + Psychic Whirlwind + Ionic / Born Gain. Eternity is recommended but not required with Demeter.
• Nergal: See Thanatos for damage; add in Brave Face, Tough Gain, and Self Healing (take Iron Core or Furious Whirlwind if Psychic is not offered)

Torches:

• Mel Torches: Fine Line / Ocean Swell + Cardio Gain + Hera Attack (Alt moveset with Huntress and Inverted Blaze without Fine Line / Ocean Swell)
• Moros: Hera Attack + Zeus Special; aim for Inverted and/or Mega Blaze
• Eos: Apollo Attack + Zeus / Hestia Special + Cardio / Ionic / Born Gain (Night required, Huntress optional)
• Supay: Zeus Sprint + Demeter Attack / Cast + Hera Attack / Cast (option for King’s Ransom build)

Skulls:

• Mel Skulls: Aphrodite / Hera Attack + Bolstered Array / Volatile Array (Huntress recommended)
• Medea: Hera / Ares Attack + Zeus Special (Option for Possessed Array + Born Gain. If not fixed, take Storm / Smolder Ring).
• Persephone: Hephaestus Attack + Seismic Servo (Meme run option with King’s / Queen’s Ransom in Underworld for Echo doubling).
• Hel: Poseidon Attack + Born / Cardio Gain (aim for Valkyrie Hammers)

Coats:

• Mel Coat: Poseidon Attack + Static Shock (King’s Tide if possible)
• Selene Coat: Maximized Godsent Skyfall (Ares Keepsake start in Underworld, Selene Keepsake start in Surface)
• Nyx Coat: ??? Poseidon Waves / Hestia Special
• Shiva: ??? Something about Hecuba and building Charge Stacks

This is my general grasp of 32+ builds, and would want to make documentation of what players should do, but as mentioned, I’m not a full expert on every weapon. Let me know what else to edit to this simplified list.

[uneven palm]

Momus id say the most fruitful stuff is O cast stuff, like Hostile Environment + Geyser Spout.

Charon doesn’t need Apollo’s Lego IMO. Giga Cleaver is a gigantic power spike, or just get Orig online + Geyser Spout and your damage should be more than sufficient.

Mel Torches idk that Cardio Gain can power Fine Line + Ocean Swell but maybe I’m sleeping on it?? I always just start Born Gain if I’m doing that.

Supay id start Hestia or Pos dash, take a high-rarity special if that’s on offer instead. Any flat damage soup build is usually good there.

Medea Flood Gain is also good for Possessed. Easier than Born Gain since you can mostly ignore max magick

Shiva just Apollo attack + Night + big gain is probably sufficient

[civic ocean]

As long as you present the information as your own experience and what you do, and not objective truth as to what someone else should do, it should be great

[glass bone]

Oh… I forgot about Giga Cleaver. I could also make it clear that Lucid Gain is like the best starting option.

With Mel Torches, I can absolutely say it supports Ocean Swell (at its worst, Cardio Gain is 9 cost to 10 Omega Attack.) But pomming or getting a good rarity Cardio Gain can sustain Fine Line (was used at 40-50 fear personally).

And yeah, I should say “This is my opinion, 32 Fear and below can be cleared by any weapon with a variety of options. These are just some builds that could also have a good shot at working if you go beyond 32”, or something like that.

[civic ocean]

For 32 you can be a lot more liberal

Like Lucid Gain is the best thing you can get for Charon but are you going to say in your guide that if you have Denial on and Nova Flourish and Lucid Gain are both offered - re-roll? If not which one do you take? What do you replace it with?

32 Charon is probably doable with Born, Lucid, Flood, Tranquil, or Ionic Gain. Lucid is the best, but it's not mandatory

[glass bone]

Options should be discussed, yes. My personal preference is Common / Uncommon Lucid Gain and ratifying Nova Flourish if I can find it.

The main idea I think with this, is to create a set of builds that are easy enough to pilot in 32 Fear, and can be extended beyond 32 Fear.

Mainly 50, because at 62, several Strats fall apart.

[civic ocean]

A guide to 32 shouldn't even necessarily even be about the build. The builds are the fun part

[uneven palm]

Didn’t Mini have a fear guide at one point? That was pre-Unseen

[glass bone]

That was at 50.

[trim flame]

For umbral flames what do you guys think would be better, an Apollo or Hermes boon?
I have hestia attack so im quite unsure what to go for on special/cast

[civic ocean]

IMO 32's Charon guide should teach the player how to dash-channel, how to pre-blast incoming spawns, how to control space, and like things to look for

[glass bone]

And it talked little about builds. Mainly discussed vows, arcanas and familiars.

[civic ocean]

I get that I'm weird but to me like "do this and you will win at 32" is so much less interesting to players as "This is how things work" and lets them put it together themselves

[glass bone]

I get it. I just think that this channel (and also discussion) ask questions like “What’s the best build?”. I myself have done that. In my opinion, it’s because the game is complicated, and probably a desire to not fail in a Roguelite (contradictory I know). Having some collection that showcases good builds I think then could be good. Because then we could say “Here’s a list of good builds, and here’s a list of videos showing they work.”

[civic ocean]

Well I mean what is the best build

[uneven palm]

The thing I did lately that I like duh

[glass bone]

I’d think of it as ‘The build that produces the desired outcome in the easiest way possible.” Broad, but this could refer to speedrunning, high fear, etc.

[civic ocean]

but those are super different

[past salmon]

Poseidon O-Attack Medea duh

[civic ocean]

HAHA, YES

[civic ocean]

idk im probably being too needlessly contrarian here but I think if you are interested in making educational content I would lean towards the stuff you are passionate about and interested in vs having a general 32 fear guide because the whole point of the systems in this game and what makes it amazing to replay IMO is how modular and creative it is

[uneven palm]

You joke but also I’m not sure you couldn’t sub-5 with it so…

[glass bone]

Yeah, that’s why I said what I said. The desired outcome could be completing a speedrun, completing a high fear run, beating a specific encounter, or something else. The ‘best build’ is the one that can be piloted in a way that brings about the highest likely chance of success. For the purposes I have, this build collection is beating 32 with any aspect.

I’d say it be a 50 Fear guide, but I’m not skilled enough to do that.

[civic ocean]

I was one embarassing typhon final phase hit away from doing 51 Charon with Wave Flourish (got Denial-scammed trying to get Exceptional Talent)

[uneven palm]

lol I think I also have a failed “wave flourish” Denial scam Charon run in my history

“Guess we’ll see how this goes” [dies]

[civic ocean]

I had a "is this actually good" moment when the Spawn of Typhon enemies charged me and the giga cleaver wave flourish specials kept pushing them back

IM SAFE! (I do about half as much damage)

[glass bone]

I can be passionate about say, my 50 fear runs (whenever I actually decide to make that thumbnail and try recording something more than gameplay). But there’s people already who have done that, with cleaner execution and higher difficulty. Being a step in ‘educational content’ is something worthwhile since there’s not been too much of that for Hades 2. Like off the top of my head, there’s the 50 Fear guide by Minnit, the weapon guides for Moonstone Axe and Xinth, Haelian’s 32 Fear Vows guide, and the tier lists.

At-least the ones that seem to be extremely popular. I imagine there’s a few more scattered about.

Oh, and also the Rival Prom writeup in the speedrun discord.

[civic ocean]

Maybe what could be done then is go take a look at all the content - Crossroads, YT vids, etc - that do 32+ with the weapon aspect and then try in your writeup to explain why each build makes the choices that it does.

Why did the Mel Blades player start Fig Leaf in Ephyra and take Volcanic Strike?

[civic ocean]

I actually wrote like 12 guides in either olympic or warsong, olympic I think

[uneven palm]

I would read a high fear guide about how to not get bullied by horrors and land dracons which still get me after a billion hours

[civic ocean]

"How I got better at the game and much worse at Polyphemus, by East_25"

[glass bone]

Alright. Well, for now, I should think about what I’ll want to do next then. I’ve got a starting idea now that can be molded still. Need to leave it cooking for longer though.

[uneven palm]

Just uhhhhh speaking from experience here maybe don’t commit 25000+ words to h2 guide content because each of these patches blow up so much stuff

[civic ocean]

Yeah we're all waiting lol

[uneven palm]

Hypothetically I mean

[civic ocean]

But also like do it if you want

Okay build math question time

What increases your damage by more - Rarifying Vicious Flourish, or Grievous Blow? 10% additive, or 2% multiplicative?

I still want to recreate the damage calculator

[uneven palm]

My gut says grievous just cus it’s everything you do

[past salmon]

Depends on the rest of your build

[civic ocean]

Yeah it depends on how weighted everything else in the calc is

[past salmon]

In vast majority of cases - most likely grievous

[civic ocean]

I used to hold my rarify when starting Ares

[past salmon]

you have a whole lot of faith in actually hitting grievous biome 1 lmao

[civic ocean]

Or mutual I take it a lot

but yeah I stopped on surface

Ares seems to enjoy long rooms

[digital adder]

Any good ideas for morrigan builds? I fear ive been using aphro attack too much

[spiral wadi]

apollo, hestia, or hera attacks are the main ones

[cerulean panther]

Back in H1 I talked about a theoretic Athena/Demeter Duo in which more Chill stacks would result in a chance to automatically backstab.

Now in H2 Blasts always backstab, and it kinda feels busted.

[junior trail]

isnt this backstab blast thing already patched?

particularly with back burner

[civic ocean]

no

[vernal gull]

Can anyone explain how aspect of Shiva works? I want to start stacking up nightmares but I really want to know about the weapon because my dumbass can't understand the description

[willow phoenix]

Use O special -> every time o special explosion hit you, you get destruction stack -> each destruction stack buffs your next O attack

So what you want to do is to keep alternating between O special and O attack. The Night arcana helps a lot with this

[vernal gull]

Oh damn that sounds cracked, is there a limit for the destruction stack?

[spiral wadi]

iirc the destruction limit is based on ur shiva level/rank

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1405791986631315586/Hades_II_-_2025-08-14_10-54-06_PM.mp4 yum new torches

[spiral granite]

Hey people, i have been having dificulty using the Coat. And liking it. Like, i managed to win once surface and once underworld, but through dogged persistence. Can you guys suggest a great build? Something to give me a taste of how a great coat run is like?(Any aspect is ok)

[median anvil]

nyx coat, start scorch special

that's it, that's the build

[past salmon]

personally I prefer Zeus start into simply hit the funny thermal dynamics boon but yeh scorch special works too ig

[spiral granite]

Huh. Okay, i will try it. Thanks for the tip, guy's, will tell you how it went

[brave dove]

I think a guide for 32 fear is better off breaking down fundamentals and some example synergies for players to build their own with than just, relentlessly listing boon combos.

You mentioned wanting to also talk about 50 fear: this approach isn't scalable to 50 fear because forfeit and debt economy kick in and make it very much a game of 'working with what you get'.

[tall notch]

The best 50f guide would be a compilation of @past salmon telling you just to hurry up and not get hit

[past salmon]

I dont really think the "work with what u get" idea is really that overbearing until greather than 62F

like, 10 rolls does a lot of work for buildmaking, and you can absolutely go for specific stuff

As an example, a great number of 62F clears use Thermal Dynamics (its really really good)

[tall notch]

Is that the Zeus+Hestia duo?

[past salmon]

yeh

[brave dove]

I mean sure but we call those high rolls for a reason and I would broadly say that people looking up guides for help are not the kind of bloody-minded that will reset 20 times for a good erebus.

[tall notch]

On Nyx specifically that feels like more of a nice to have. The aspect generates enough scorch with spec alone imo

[brave dove]

Otherwise they wouldn't need the guide.

also thermal dynamics builds specifically are usually pretty good even without the duo

[past salmon]

idk how you turned "build making is pretty doable" into "you need to reset 20 times to get something specific" but ok

[tall notch]

the people who aren't ready to reset Erebus 20 times aren't ready to push high fear

[open urchin]

I like to play around the Ospecial with Heaven Flourish and Arc Flash if I can pull it, or with Sworn Flourish. Aspect of Selene is my favourite, but I haven't really given Nyx or Shiva a real shot. I find it has a bit of trouble with Lightbringer Eris because it can't hit the lucifer nades very well, but otherwise this is my comfort build. Run it with The Moon and you're laughing with the bonus damage/resistance from the hex. I hear Poseidon is also good with the Ospecial, but I haven't personally tried it

[past salmon]

my view on Nyx is that I would rather start Blitz is the thing
So Thermal Slots in more naturally kinda?

[brave dove]

I mean my experience is that if you're not willing to at least pivot you do need to kinda reset a lot to force a specific build?

esp. once forfeit's in play and you can't room 1 reset

[past salmon]

I mean... no?

maybe if ur idea of build making is 32 specific boons from 7 different gods

[brave dove]

like if you want any specific god combo you need to either sacrifice your region 2 keepsake - which is a fairly significant price to pay - or reset for the second god

[tall notch]

I'm not foolish so for me these higher fears (levels where onions come into play, so 58 and above rn) tend to be praying to artificer and building around the stuff I get off that

[past salmon]

you should probably be god keepsakeing Oceanus a lot anyway

[brave dove]

genuinely I've tried it and it always feels awful for me

[tall notch]

Wait you can use keepsakes other than Athena in Oceanus??

[past salmon]

yes hecate aint that hard bro 😭

[tall notch]

Yeah but there's this weird thing ticking in the top right when i fight her

[brave dove]

particularly on like, builds that want specific hammers