h2-builds-and-combat

[signal coral]

the tornado move you can kind of tell when he's doing it because he will kind of open his mouth and move his head back and forth

it lasts a surprisingly long time

[swift path]

Did they ever change echo’s keepsake because I’m scared to use it lmao

[fair horizon]

No, still a footgun, a blessing, a nothing burger, all in one.

[viscid wave]

God BLESS you 😭 I've been struggling to figure out what the damn trigger for his chin smash is forever

[thin ridge]

The splitting balls are so punishing I lose way too much health to that

[steady crater]

I hate xinth
I maxed Melinoë's aspect and got Rapid Frame and got Profuse bleeding, and it still feels so slow to attack
Just died to typhon, after nearly dying to prometheus

I admit that i was not very careful against them, but there's usually no problem with other weapons

[uneven palm]

Coat’s pretty strong. What’re you putting on attack/special?

[steady crater]

Aphro attack lvl 2 or 3 and ares special
Also had +27 power on attacks, and tall order, and martial art

[shut radish]

hey everyone, what's a recommended setup for heat 32?

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSm2KltkfvUcVAxeqa8TE1Ix1N1u5I2bgC94rUjXs1tegyOZoeVM0H_JVuyNDEmYB5Sl-CxCTA7FLlV/pubhtml here’s a collection of builds that I use at 32 fear that you can try out

Can customize the arcana and fear to suit yourself a bit more, but they’re decent foundations

[noble cobalt]

Man, it will be good if the game allow to roll for others options of dedalo boons. Is so boring keep dying until find what you want

[uneven palm]

That should be pretty decent actually. What’s your rotation? With Aphro on attack and an Ares special I’d be doing something like special attack attack. Or mix in dash-strikes with that much +power. You can attack while rockets are out and you wanna get to the second punch with higher base power

Aphro attack is decent but Mel Coat imo goes harder with flat damage (Poseidon, Zeus, Hestia)

[craggy hull]

what are some good coat builds?

[sage flame]

if you can get exhaust riser, pos attack for dash attack spam is good, shimmering rockets is good with hera special

[civic ocean]

Mel coat - mostly just focus on things that scale with attack speed like scorch, waves, static

Selene Coat - start selene keepsake and spam omega moves with night arcana

Nyx coat - night arcana omega dash + attack spam with maybe some on hit stuff on special to clean up rooms

[uneven palm]

I was just playing around with Night with Nyx. O special, O sprint in, then spam attack/special during Nightspawn while your critical O special rockets land felt pretty good

[steady crater]

Do you mean that even if your Ω special was first, since your Ω sprint landed before them the Ω special rocket have the combo crit ?
Or do you relaunch an Ω special after getting close ?

[civic ocean]

Presumably the specials would have the combo crit every time after the first you did this

[neat pier]

What should I do in the surface if my run RNG was so bad I took 5 min to kill Spawn of Typhon

Give up on the run?

[thin ridge]

If you are at the summit play it for resources if nothing else

[neat pier]

Gotcha

[uneven palm]

You won, right? Keep going.

[median anvil]

what are the recommended boon picks for momus staff and moros torch

[glossy forge]

Momus staff: Hera attack, Zeus special, getting geyser spout from Poseidon is nice but not required. Glamour Gain works well because you don't use that much magick with Momus, but any gain is fine.
Moros torch: Hera/Ares attack, Hera/Ares special (make sure attack and special are not from the same god), Born Gain, Fine Line, Grievous Wounds.

[bleak night]

can also put Zeus on Special for Moros, but yeah it holds

Honestly, I think Momus kinda just enjoys the 'Usual Four Suspects' build anyway

[civic ocean]

For Momus I think the staff build here is pretty nice

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSm2KltkfvUcVAxeqa8TE1Ix1N1u5I2bgC94rUjXs1tegyOZoeVM0H_JVuyNDEmYB5Sl-CxCTA7FLlV/pubhtml

[sage flame]

oh yeah been meaning to ask, did u get these images from the wiki too?

[bleak night]

modding discord has them all in the actual quality, even the new icons

[sage flame]

thx 🙏

[civic ocean]

I did wiki screencaps lol full scuff

[steady crater]

Yeah i usually like frost on momus to make sure the enemies get hit by the delayed Ωs

[bleak night]

@junior trail @static crescent https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1351878678203600987/Ares_Charon_test.mp4?ex=67dbfaa1&is=67daa921&hm=510c90b3d0159485f48a9ffe5503933ed14aeede21c886adabfb934f0757974f&

[sage flame]

damn that's p darn good

[barren badger]

I don't really understand how you have so much burst damage. I suppose i am not used to boon stack effects in h2 compared to h1.

[bleak night]

I have a boon that gives me a chance to do 2x the damage on literally anything based on missing HP, and it was at 65% or something

That contributes to a lot of the burst, but otherwise it's just Charon damage being Charon damage

it's characterized by massive bursts of damage

[barren badger]

ah i see. I think i typically avoided that boon since i tend to play glass cannon and avoid stacking health

so missing hp when i only have 100 base health doesn't give much effect

[bleak night]

You can get Grievous Blow instead of that, then. Does the same effect but the % chance is a constant rather than scaling with missing HP

10-25 based on rarity

[barren badger]

Do you use knuckle bones?

[bleak night]

Nope, I usually just go Antler/Droplet/Lion Fang in the final areas

[barren badger]

I typically only pic antler to start with due to the health penalty. Haven't yet upgraded fang or droplet to be of major use.

[bleak night]

I recommend Antler ends if you have Trusty Shield, Mint Condition or Snow Queen. Usually two of the three

[barren badger]

How worth it is priming? I typically avoid the boons with a prime penalty.

[surreal hazel]

don't be worried about those

priming just reduces your mana cap, it's entirely something that can be compensated for

if your setup doesn't use magicka much, then it's scarcely a drawback at all

and despite how it might feel on paper, Hera's Born Gain is one of the strongest gain boons around

big prime costs are there to offset how powerful a boon is, so if you can deal with a reduced cap, they're pretty much all worth taking

Static shock is well worth 50 prime

[barren badger]

I tend to play torches, so i tend to get starved of mana pretty fast.

[surreal hazel]

yeah so counterintuitively, consider Born Gain

and the new Hestia Burnt Offering is MUCH better than it looks if you read the description carefully

[barren badger]

So it sort of doubles your mana bar, but caps your total mana usage?

[surreal hazel]

more than doubles

every time you try to cast beyond what mana you have, it ignores the cost, primes the amount the boon says, and refills the mana

it will loop this until the prime amount would take your mana to 0 or less, where it won't trigger

so if you have 100 mana, and born gain primes 20

you have 100 + 80 + 60 + 40 + 20 mana total, so 300, plus whatever the freebie overcast gives you

[barren badger]

Sounds like it would suck if that happened during promethius fight. He always ends up being a damage check for me, and just a slab of meet that i have to keep smacking at.

[surreal hazel]

it's only a problem on very prolonged fights

but consider that above example again, let's say I add one mana tonic

[barren badger]

Just got to get big fast i guess.

[surreal hazel]

now my total mana is 130 + 110 + 90 ....

490

and this is considering a common Born Gain that primes 20 mana, you might get a better quality one, or pom levels

it really doesn't take a lot of investment for Born Gain to feel like infinite mana

[barren badger]

I don't really know when it's beneficial to get pom. I mostly just go for hammer/moon/buff.

[surreal hazel]

usually better to get those, yes

but I'm describing worst cases here. And the mathematics behind born gain are very deceptive

my example there had you adding 30 max cap and giving an extra 190 total mana, add another 30 and it's another 220 on top of that

[barren badger]

Is it me, or is hammer not as big as it was in hades1. In hades1 its almost required to get hammer due to how big you could get. I don't really remember hammer buffs in h2.

[sage flame]

there are certain builds that are definitely fairly hammer reliant

[surreal hazel]

Hammers in hades 2 are also basically great, but if you use the torches then... hrm, still good, but less so

The staff is a a little twig until you get the hammer upgrades you want

[uneven palm]

Yeah torch hammers are mostly nice-to-haves

[sage flame]

clean candle my beloved

[surreal hazel]

certainly better than poms

I could get a third projectile on my omega special to give a 50% multiplicative damage bonus to it

or... I could make my +50% damage bonus be +60% instead,

Poms are such a scam in a lot of cases

with some notable exceptions

[barren badger]

I typically only get poms on time floor when its the only option

[surreal hazel]

quite

[barren badger]

I haven't got used to playing skull or jetpack yet. Skull feels like a drag to play at times. I haven't unlocked other jetpack forms.

[uneven palm]

Those are fun give em a shot

[barren badger]

The only time i had a good time with skull was the hammer that fires all skulls in an aoe at once and just wiped the floor with everything.

[uneven palm]

Try Fetching Array you can just machine gun things. Or Possessed Array rules but you need a ton of magick

[bleak night]

have you tried Aspect of Medea yet

[barren badger]

No. Haven't got the resources to upgrade it yet.

Having to buy into a weapon before it gets good sort of detered me from trying out some weapon aspects.

[bleak night]

Oh, you don't need to upgrade Medea to understand the strength of it at least. Sure, it does help to have that damage out of the gate, but a rank 1 Medea can showcase the strengths of the Aspect enough if you're willing to give it a go

[barren badger]

I fully upgraded backstab daggers, and the bonus is usually so good i really don't need to try picking other things which makes me sort of sad.

I think ill give medea a try

[surreal hazel]

gotta get dem nightmare bounties

[bleak night]

You know the general gameplay loop on it? It's considered one of the most fun aspects ngl

[barren badger]

No. haven't tried and not familiar with it.

[bleak night]

Here you go #h2-builds-and-combat message

[barren badger]

Ah, so you just button mash. Lol this is how i play h1 zagreus sword.

[bleak night]

not quite, no.

There's a rhythm to it and the aspect itself has no invulnerability during the ram unless you Omega Special, which makes it slow as hell

So you have to input dashes in between, because your Special has the distance of a dash, but not the invulnerability of it

[barren badger]

sounds like a good use of steam deck back bumper buttons.

[bleak night]

You'll see as you play it out, but your options are pretty good in terms of this aspect. Not hammer dependent, and you have like 3 main choices for Attack

Aphro/Hera/Ares, Dem can also work but you'd rather have her on Cast

[barren badger]

I typically use cast as a crutch to trap enemies and play like zagreus king arther sword.

[surreal hazel]

Amusingly the cast function is a modded authur hallowed ground

[barren badger]

I have my highest heat level on arthur sword. It feels almost impossible to lose with it.

[surreal hazel]

I found it clunky as heck, but hey

Rama Rama duck

[barren badger]

Can typhon be backstabbed? I found daggers great until i get to typhon where my damage flattens since i can't seem to due the backstab damage burst. It almost feels like its impossible to surface with mel daggers

[bleak night]

Use the Zeus Special build and he should be no problem

[civic ocean]

Yeah he can actually I don’t know exactly how to replicate it but he can be

Some really fun stuff that’s super good on Mel Daggers. I have a build that I use for 32s here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSm2KltkfvUcVAxeqa8TE1Ix1N1u5I2bgC94rUjXs1tegyOZoeVM0H_JVuyNDEmYB5Sl-CxCTA7FLlV/pubhtml

[barren badger]

Does zeus boon have any special/secret lore damage bonus or something?

It is mentioned in the lore that typhon was initially weak to zeus lightning

[bleak night]

Not quite, it's just that the build is really good in the surface because of how Ephyra is built, so it has a ton of synergies and almost every god combination works because of the Duos possible

so the build does good damage early, has good room clear once you get Static Shock, and scales really hard with the amount of Duos you can play for based on the gods you get in Ephyra

[signal coral]

i still need to try zeus dagger special spam

i saw this clear screenshot of 50 fear surface zeus special spam and its been on my backburner of things to try (minus the 50 fear part...)
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1051942150025269309/1350667519752540180/image.png?ex=67dc2fe6&is=67dade66&hm=969cdd874d5795834c6c94bcb1fe6f0e0fc3a81a4991bc845e076075a108eff6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1376&height=774

(also 0 mana pan is funny, though I will probably play mel dagger instead)

[bleak night]

ah that one is just trick knives

just play Mel Blades with it, it's hammer dependent is all though

wait nvm it has Melting and no Trick Knives. Wtf is that, how did it win

[signal coral]

idk maybe the runner is cracked

[bleak night]

@royal ledge #h2-feedback message Charon already does that btw

Geyser Spout and Prominence Flare work on the regular Cast you detonate with Omega Special

It's not just damage, it's a straight up Omega Cast

[barren badger]

I think charron how it is, is probably the strongest weapon in the game.

its basically just a mop that wipes the floor with everything.

[bleak night]

Also Mel Axe is kind of the best weapon right now

[barren badger]

flat health and damage is pretty good.

[bleak night]

Not in speedrunning or general casual play, just for the highest difficulty the game has to offer

[bleak night]

Yeah, I think Mel Axe is the best aspect if you learn to mitigate the weaknesses, it's just that it has glaring ones

[barren badger]

ive been having a pretty annoying time getting enough silver to get the last upgrade on mel axe.

[bleak night]

take Raki with you for it

[magic moss]

is this a new one or old one

[barren badger]

Still only really get 1 silver spawn a run.

[signal coral]

its old, i think you were pinged about it a few days ago already

[magic moss]

who is it from

[signal coral]

uhhh some chinese runner in the speedcord posted it

let me find it

#1051942150025269309 message

[magic moss]

[barren badger]

no permission on this link.

[magic moss]

oh its metz ok yeah i got it

[signal coral]

thats what happens if you arent in the server the link is from

[bleak night]

old one

[signal coral]

its just the speedrun discord

[civic ocean]

35 power and 35 hp not worth it on an aspect? I want to play the aspects this person gets to play

[bleak night]

yeah idk people just stand there and swing that thing

then full commit to big chops in front of enemies

[rotund nacelle]

If I accidentally use axe's second strike, that's acceptable. If I get to the big chop though, I'm pissed

[barren badger]

How useful is the axe hammer only chop attack?

[spare kite]

Use your special to cancel the chop

[rotund nacelle]

I never take Experimental Hammer on Axe specifically to avoid that Hammer

[spare kite]

Is fun on Than but I'd only take it if literally nothing else is available or have executioner chop

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, I do. Sometimes I don't realize it's going into Big Chop though and I don't react in time

[candid ledge]

I think it's completely fine and viable (same with most hammers in the game) on most levels of dificulty. But yeah it's fine if ur not on Charon

it's fun if you manage to stack Hell Splitter and the other big bonk damage hammers all in one run (especially if you manage to Echo and get an extra hammer!)

[spring holly]

New stupid build I call fight for me slaves: Sun Worshiper, Apfro/Hera duo, Moon zombie you will always at least 3 units fighting for you

[spare kite]

Look at that hitch value

[neon crown]

has it said i wastyping something this entire time? ive had something written here but not sent lmao

[candid ledge]

honestly I've wanted to try an "afk and let my minions do my work" build for a while...maybe ill turn off timer and go for that. build

[barren badger]

which apollo boons do you pick for sun worshiper?

[spring holly]

I was doing Charon run so his gain boon

[bleak night]

whenever I get that hammer off of the Experimental Hammer and I'm playing Mel Axe, I like to hit Alt F4

[rotund nacelle]

Hell Splitter and Alt+F4, best duo in the game

[barren badger]

Doesn't that item reroll after some time, so it isn't that big of a deal?

[junior trail]

Night bloom/sun worshiper will still fight charmed enemy tho

[bleak night]

Experimental Hammer? No it lasts 20 encounters then fully disappears

[neon crown]

is god>selene/god>hammer>odesseyus a good set of keepsakes to use?

[bleak night]

can put on Athena as 2nd nowadays

[candid ledge]

I believe if you take hammer going into Olympus it lasts through Typhon fight?

[bleak night]

it does ye

[neon crown]

honestly diddnt think athena was that good. is it the deflect? or smth else?

[candid ledge]

yeah deflect = better i frames/easier to avoid getting hit more than anything
but righteous pikes is also amazing

[neon crown]

should last long enough to take a few extra rooms in tartarus too

[candid ledge]

oh yeah it works through fields + tart too, though I do not find myself taking hammer often in the UW at all

[bleak night]

Divine Dash or Righteous Pike, depending on what you're playing

[neon crown]

usually than axe though ive been experimenting with other weapons lately

[barren badger]

I haven't encountered athena too much in h2. Is divine dash the same as in h1?

[candid ledge]

yes, you just have less dashes so it's (in a 1:1 comparison in a vacuum) worse i suppose

I still think it's absolutely ridiculous and most of my 40 fear runs feature it

[neon crown]

dunno all the differences but its not a core boon so you get a designated dash boon other than that too

[rotund nacelle]

Generally, Divine Dash. For mana hungry stuff, Righteous Pike. For 55F Stalwart Stand. For Time Travelling to Olympus Patch, Mental Block

[bleak night]

can just do Divine Dash with 55 now

I did it yesterday, wasn't that bad for the most part

[unique perch]

all my builds now are based on if i can get a good Duo or not and hope i get one

[bleak night]

they need to buff Phalanx Shot somehow, it's just so BAD

[neon crown]

EM is gonna be a thing sometime soon right? you think theres gonna be any other new vows or just that one since i feel like max fear is gonna far harder this game

[rotund nacelle]

Good to know. I was practicing some 55F last patch and I'd ideally take Mental Block, but Stalwart Stand was my second option with Divine Dash in third

[neon crown]

like assuming em4 is gonna give a total of 10 heat and we get a hell mode, thats gonna be like max 66 heat which is already more than the 64 in h1

[candid ledge]

I've tried phalanx on some random surface 32s and honestly I think it should be slightly larger and/or move faster...just because the other options Athena has are just ridiculously better

another cool option would be a small 'invuln' circle where it lands or explodes for some interesting gameplay.

you could launch it --> run into an enemy using it as cover --> fight in melee with 1s of invuln upon arrival

because essentially divine dash does all of that but much much better (and easier)

[rotund nacelle]

If Phalanx Shot lasted for a long time it could be interesting. Essentially enabling you to place a piece of cover on the map to play around, or dropping it on a boss to stop them from being able to get attacks out

[bleak night]

I just uploaded a divine dash 55f UW run if you wanna see how I went about it. Was mostly smooth sailing except for the usual Scylla fight with no Hitch

[unique perch]

an ability that lets you place cover would be cool

[bleak night]

interesting

[rotund nacelle]

It's probably going to be a bit before I get back to 55F attempts. I'm doing funny Hermes stuff while getting used to a new controller, then I want to do 50F surface on all aspects. After that maybe 55F attempts

[bleak night]

ooh hfhf. 50f surface might take a bit to get used to tho

[rotund nacelle]

My PB is a timer death to Prometheus

[sage flame]

jetty disappearing immediately

[bleak night]

Jetty is my main issue in 55f attempts

[sage flame]

literally

[bleak night]

gotta work on the builds for faster room clear

I've started running Unorthodox weirdness that won't work in UW runs just to make the most out of Ephyra

like, Mel Blades starting with Zeus keepsake for the Special seems to be the most consistent thing rn for Surface 50f wins

[rotund nacelle]

That run was the other way around. I had good room clear not enough boss damage. Eris look around 1:30 and I went into Prometheus with 0:40 - 0:50 on the clock

[bleak night]

about 6 or 7 people have done it already

[bleak night]

ah, yeah you gotta start full sending it at Eris to save on timer

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, if I see Hera, Zeus, Heph, Dem in Ephyra it's easily clearable. That run I was missing Zeus which is a significant amount of my boss damage

[bleak night]

Dem and Heph is enough usually, the other two can be whatever as long as the damage is good. Surface lets me run more Apollo and Aphro for damage, which I really like

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, I've been playing around with using either Heph or Pos special for damage if I can't get Zeus

[bleak night]

Heph for damage
huh

like, Anvil Ring right?

[elfin forge]

heph special? I hope its heroic

[bleak night]

Heph Special might not be that bad anymore since you can just get Bridal Glow after ig ?

[magic moss]

still bad

[bleak night]

yep

[civic ocean]

I guess if you just only use it to ding dong big stuff its probably good

[elfin forge]

at that point just take ares though, its a curse as well for orig

[rotund nacelle]

Arctic Ring would be my first choice for cast, then Storm Ring, then Anvil Ring. Heph Special is not ideal, but if I can't get Zeus and Heph offers me an Epic Volcanic Flourish, then it's better than not having a special boon

[bleak night]

I'll try a Blast run at some point just for the sake of it

[rotund nacelle]

If I can't get Zeus though, then Ares or Posiedon on Special is probably better

[sage flame]

i love bridal glow because i love gambling

[candid ledge]

was wondering what this Artemis trick I hear mentioned is about? does it have to do with getting her to spawn near exit doors?

[bleak night]

what trick

just getting her to spawn with no delay ?

[civic ocean]

The only trick I know about with Artemis is knowing what Ephyra rooms she can be in

[rotund nacelle]

Can I interest you in the degen reset simulator that is gambling for funny Hermes boons?

[candid ledge]

i have no idea because it's never been elaborated on. I heard Boated mention it in 2 or 3 videos and most other people I watch do not do commentary

[candid ledge]

yeah this one I know already but ty 🙂

if it's no delay spawn I am definitely curious

[bleak night]

kill the last enemy in the encounter as she's taking aim at it and she just doesn't have a delay in spawning afterwards

[sage flame]

if I reset when I don't get what I want the gambling high isn't as good

[rotund nacelle]

It's hours and hours of resetting until you hit the jackpot and completely break the game in the most hilarious run you could ever do

[bleak night]

what you're saying here is I should do it in 50F. Gotcha, I'll try soon.

so I just 100% need two boons that can't be levelled, right?

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, that's my best theory as to how to get it to happen. Go Heph or Aphro first for Heavy Metal, Uncanny Fortitude, Life Affirmation, or Secret Crush. then take a Hermes boon, then roll Hera for Bridal Glow. I haven't confirmed whether you can take Hermes first, then the Heph/Aphro boon and still get Bridal Glow to show up

Not 100% confirmed, just my best guess

[bleak night]

gotta save rerolls for that stuff, which makes it rough. I'll give it a go at some point though

[elfin forge]

Maximum gambling: No rerolls, keepsake pig->chaos->fig leaf->hammer

[sage flame]

how about judgement run, figurine start, fig, hammer, chaos instead

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, you're burning all your rerolls immediately. If you get lucky you might have a couple left over when you finally get it to work

[spare kite]

I wanna see bridal glow pike one day

[elfin forge]

does hammer last until final boss if you use in zone 3

[spare kite]

Yeah

[sage flame]

you can take hammer in oceanus and have it at chronos

[elfin forge]

Also doesnt using hammer mess with getting regular hammers to spawn? I anecdotally feel like thats the case

[bleak night]

Pure gamba, gotcha

[civic ocean]

That reminds me to lab fig leaf ephyra some more

[sage flame]

and what hermes boon are we even trying to hero-ify exactly

[elfin forge]

stutter step

[sage flame]

ah

[elfin forge]

idk what else breaks though

[spare kite]

Which boons have been broken by this already?

[rotund nacelle]

Probably needs the same setup as Hermes boons, with 1 unpommabkle from another god to satisfy the requirements for Bridal Glow. Haven't tested that much though

[spare kite]

Stutter/pretty sure I saw a winner's circle/vital signs from arty?

[sage flame]

does winners circle rarity effect cast duration too?

[rotund nacelle]

I got a Winner's Circle with Sword Ring once. I couldn't use the O-cast because the cast timed out before channeling had a chance to start

[sage flame]

you'd think with the ocast channel speed boost you'd be able to

[elfin forge]

is pike a regular boon or does it go in the buff/keepsake area

[sage flame]

boon area

[spare kite]

#h2-victory-boasting message

[sage flame]

wow

why isn't it on the boon description lol

doesn't it just say omega cast speed is faster in the numbers

[civic ocean]

Damn I think that makes Excellence much better on WC builds

[rotund nacelle]

There's a lot that have potential. I've done Stutter Step and Winner's Circle have been done and basically removed the cooldowns on them completely. I want to see if Travel Deal would once again let us rob Charon (i.e. give 100+% discount). Nimble Limbs might give absurd attack speed. Racing thoughts could give instant O-Moves. Success Rate might guarantee any chance effect. There're a lot I want to try but getting it to work is pain

[sage flame]

i believe it

[willow phoenix]

Uhh it says the cast duration is shorter in general on the above text but the scaling numbers are only for o cast channel speed

[civic ocean]

But it DOES scale the speed, right? I felt that intuitively playing

[willow phoenix]

Wait does it?

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, the scaling number do affect cast duration

[willow phoenix]

That seems buggy lol

[willow phoenix]

Huh TIL, that's very weird. How have I never noticed this lol

Gonna try this with Sword Ring or Engagement Ring now

[civic ocean]

Sword Ring is too fast unfortunately I think but its crazy with Arctic and Geyser

And yeah engagement is good too

[spare kite]

Pick Zeus's to completely kill it lol

[willow phoenix]

So the sword doesn't get to drop?

Or multiple cast needs to wait for the first sword to go down

[sage flame]

yeah it does which is why I don't like that it only has one part of the description

[spare kite]

You still need to wait for the sword before reapplying I assume

[willow phoenix]

Ngl I feel like that's unintended lol

[rotund nacelle]

Sword Ring works just fine with Winners Circle #h2-victory-boasting message

[sage flame]

maybe, or just an incomplete description

[rotund nacelle]

This did have Coffin Nail, but it still worked fine without it

[civic ocean]

Oh right duh it works with charon of course it would work with WC

[spare kite]

Yeah for me it was always the assumption it decreased cast duration too

[willow phoenix]

Oh that looks fun

[civic ocean]

If you get the ares dem duo the meat grinder pop on charon follows you around right

[willow phoenix]

With cutting edge it would go insane

[willow phoenix]

Yep, not a fan

[spare kite]

Yup

[rotund nacelle]

I assumed the other way around because other boons have multiple effects and only the one written in the green numbers gets scaled. Stuff like Snow Queen or Static Shock

[civic ocean]

Super fun to go for on Charon tbh the two sword duos into rallying cry if you can swing it

[willow phoenix]

Same tbh

[spare kite]

Yeah but those are like, very different effects for me to assume they'd scale

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, didn't manage to get Cutting Edge the run and the damage kinda fell off by the time I got to Olympus

[spare kite]

Winner's feels natural but ofc not clear lol

[willow phoenix]

Hmm I guess with cut above you'd get a second round of swords too. I think I'll do more ares cast on charon so I can fit in Poseidon somewhere for geyser spout and still get hostile environment

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, I think it's better that the cast duration scales to give you an option to synergize with boons that benefit from you using the cast ability more often

[spare kite]

Hera cast winner's my love

[signal coral]

how fast are the clangs with bugged winners circle heph cast >.>

[rotund nacelle]

I want to get another leveled Stutter Step run and get Ares Dash with Coffin Nail, Cutting Edge, and Rallying Cry

[rotund nacelle]

I haven't been able to try yet, but I'd imagine it'd be like a machine gun

[willow phoenix]

Last I tried that it bugged with the ares dash only hitting once

[civic ocean]

I do Ares Apollo Heph and it feels pretty free at 32 good mix of utility and safety while having lots of damage, 4th god can be almost literally any of them

[signal coral]

what weapon is this referring to?

[civic ocean]

Charon

[signal coral]

oh, makes sense

apollo core and then the other two gods are just good on every build

[willow phoenix]

I wonder if they're gonna patch this bridal glow exploit or just make all of these boons scalable lol

[signal coral]

probably patch if i were to guess

[rotund nacelle]

Ares, Apollo, Heph, Zeus. Vicious Strike, Divine Vengeance, Heinous Affront, Visceral Impact, Sanguine Favor, Light Smite, Stabbing Rush, Coffin Nail, Cutting Edge, Rallying Cry

Horrible build to get all the boons for, but a ton of fun

[spare kite]

Is gonna disappear for sure

[civic ocean]

I do Heinous affront on mel blades its so crazy in swarm rooms you toss out like 3 specials and the whole room dies

[rotund nacelle]

I hope they leave the interaction in, where Bridal glow can hit Hermes Boons, but fix the scaling. Presumably no one expected there to be a way for Hermes boons to gain levels so a value for level scaling was never adjusted from some default value. I'd be fun to keep as a hidden interaction where you can level a normally unlevelable boon, especially given that it's a one off effect

[willow phoenix]

Light smite is getting nerfed for sure

At least the aoe

[rotund nacelle]

Well, technically in an underworld run you could hit it 4 times if you sold Bridal Glow at the end of every region

[sage flame]

if anything it would be heinous that gets nerfed tbh, light smite is fine by itself

[spare kite]

How Would you nerf it, or just revert to 12s

[rotund nacelle]

Heinous got buffed a week after it's release, I doubt it'll see a nerf

[spare kite]

Also that lol

Light smite is the enabler here

[sage flame]

idk just make the revenge affect only against the thing that has wounds on it or smth

[civic ocean]

They might nerf Light Smite if they add other revenge boons but I think it’s fine the way it is

Heinous Affront is basically a trio boon so I think it should be strong

[spare kite]

Insane that I would be asking for more revenge boons one day

[sage flame]

real

[rotund nacelle]

Honestly I don't think it needs a nerf. It's powerful, yes, but so is a lot of other stuff and the Heinous Affront, Light Smite combo is a lot to build into. It requires 3 different gods and a Duo with a minimum 3 boon requirement

[signal coral]

didnt there used to be a hera revenge boon?

what happened to it?

[willow phoenix]

It got removed

[sage flame]

it was killed off

[signal coral]

whyyyy

[rotund nacelle]

Replaced by Extended Family

[willow phoenix]

Maybe because it wouldn't work with Heinous Affront lol

[sage flame]

was called nasty comeback and you do damage based on % of what hit you, like 750% or 1000%

[signal coral]

the only thing I remember was that it was funny when you revenged chronos instakill

[rotund nacelle]

Was that just Nasty Comeback and a DD into his 1 shot?

[spare kite]

I don't think the revenge fully worked off the one shot?

[civic ocean]

It worked off of damage you took not damage of the move IIRC

[rich belfry]

whyy i cant HAVE QUEENS RANSOM ??? i have each boon of hera and zues but still a whole night couldn't find it ...

[willow phoenix]

That's how the rng goes sometimes lol

[rich belfry]

hate their marriage already

[civic ocean]

Which boons of hera and zeus?

Crucially I believe you get Queen’s Ransom by having Zeus on cast/sprint/gain and hera on a core as well - if you only have a non core zeus boon or if your core is strike or flourish it won’t show

[neat nimbus]

does meat grinder cancel out geyser spout?

as in, i won't be able to get it later

[signal coral]

yes

ares/apollo/poseidon omega cast boons are all mutually exclusive

[sage flame]

which is so weird

[civic ocean]

Yeah no getting the blades rusty cmon now

[willow phoenix]

The omega cast boons block each other out, same with the ranged cast boons like glowing coal and lightning lance

[sage flame]

the ranged cast ones make logical sense

and old geyser spout would make sense

but currently, all the omega cast boons take up different parts of the omega cast, during the cast, the burst explosion, and after the cast

prominence flare being locked out of it also hurts it way more than necessary, poor boon is kinda really bad now

[willow phoenix]

Maybe they should consider just expanding omega cast and range cast boons to be cores lol to make it clearer, so every god would have one

[signal coral]

pls no, we have too many core boons as is

[sage flame]

or you could just allow omega cast boons to sacrifice each other to make it clearer that there's an invisible "omega cast slot" or something silly like that

cause atm the other ones just don't show up and that leaves players confused and then coming over here and asking why geyser isn't showing up

[analog ether]

All Prom really needs is to be able to let you start another Omega while it's happening.

[sage flame]

yeah, if it didn't lock you out of casting it would be used more I feel

[civic ocean]

It would be quite good then yeah it honestly is quite a bit of damage and scales with O cast boosts

[analog ether]

Especially since you can start a new cast while Meat Grinder is happening, which is functionally the same effect.

[civic ocean]

I wonder if it has to do with how many ticks of things the game can show on screen at once

Meat Grinder is only 4 ticks IIRC

[steady crater]

Does rallying cry boost hitch damage ?

[spare kite]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1230649734008672347/1351405937075949568/2041781.JPG?ex=67dc3c9b&is=67daeb1b&hm=99a8eb4887b298772fcfda4137c075a87fa0d0a42777f83c40ddc863e86bab28& mood

(at this point only swaps/uncommon grace/duos were left lmfao)

[sage flame]

that's so messed up

[rich belfry]

looooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[spare kite]

No vow of denial btw

[sage flame]

u even got her legendary i assume?

[spare kite]

Yup

[sage flame]

wowza

[spare kite]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1351408038002688171/2090E31.JPG?ex=67dc3e90&is=67daed10&hm=3880939a9824aa72bd67060ae1a42facd570cfbb403a435a00d845e6e97e3fc8&

It would have been +24 😔

[rich belfry]

oh my god

[spare kite]

I've gotten +20 king's too

[barren badger]

This ended up working and winning. Ended up with a zeus special +11 with the zeus/hera duo boon giving stupid amounts of damage.

[sage flame]

another common zeus special W

[barren badger]

I didn't really realize that dagger special inflicted backstab on return.

[surreal hazel]

Mel daggers aren't just about attack buttons

[steady crater]

If i have possessed array (your skulls fire your Ω attack when retrieved) and i take fine line (your Ω moves create a fissure, but use +15 magick), will it cost +15 magick when retrieving a shell ?

[spare kite]

Nope

[steady crater]

😮

[spare kite]

Neither +costs nor -costs work on possessed

[fluid flare]

What boons should i be trying to get with the aspect of eos?

[uneven palm]

Hera or Apollo attack, Zeus/Poseidon/Ares special are good. Eos doesn’t need insanely robust gains

[signal coral]

im still not sure what eos wants

i just kind of pick whatever shows up and its always "okay"

never a build I am super satisfied with but also never unplayable

[royal ledge]

I could have sworn it wasn't working like that on my run yesterday. I certainly never saw prominence flare trigger, though it's possible Geyser Spout was working and I didn't notice.

[civic ocean]

Only thoughts I have written down on Eos:

normal special spam seems good even with particle limit: get on hit effects

Aspect lacks hitstun for safety: prioritize Demeter and Poseidon for knockback and freeze, consider going water core for survivability

The build I have in the doc is Arterial Spray Special with Demeter attack/cast (I don’t like casts with Eos because it’s hard to get Daybreaker to show up - I think a good buff to the aspect would be to have Daybreaker warp to your cast)

[uneven palm]

Most overwhelming feeling Eos build I’ve run has been Apollo attack with Ares special and Grievous Blow. First Daybreaker pulse would just end whatever was in it.

[uneven palm]

Or Zeus/Poseidon special Triple Comet is good.

[uneven palm]

Oh this also had Weed Killer too that helped haha

[hollow briar]

That’s kinda Eos, yeah

You don’t really need anything other than eventually some Magick, per se, but you can throw some garbage on the Attack or some garbage on the Spesh or both and it’ll usually just work out so long as it’s not like, 50+F

[hollow briar]

Pretty sure Weed Killer just buffs the on-contact damage of the Daybreaker, unless they changed that

It was really disappointing the first time I got it and saw essentially no change lol, but again, they might’ve patched it

[tough mural]

Zeus legendary is kinda underwhelming

[hollow briar]

Yeah, unfortunately that’s the case for most of ‘em

[barren badger]

What are the conditions to recieve a legendary? is it just rng?

[hollow briar]

It’s three Boons from the same God, but those three Boons are often in categories. Usually, from what I remember, it’s a Core Boon and two supplementary Boons

[willow phoenix]

There are prerequisite boons that you need to have first, you can check on the Book of Shadows for details

[hollow briar]

Yeah, really tough to know per God without seeing the Codex unless you’ve gone for the specific Legendary a bunch

[willow phoenix]

Usually it's pretty much get a boon from every "category" the Olympians has

Like Aphro is get the attack/special, get a weak source, and get a secondary boon

[hollow briar]

But yeah, in my mind, Hestia’s might as well not exist, Heph’s is usually just there, Zeus is fine outside of Bosses, Aphro’s is just free Origination on Weaken. Hera’s and Apollo’s have the potential to be good while Ares makes your Strike speed go nuts. Otherwise, Demeter can have decent waveclear and Pos is solid if you’re relying on Splashes for damage and thus need some Boss DMG

Even if Denial wasn’t a huge factor in why it’s better to go for a multitude of Boons (and same with Forfeit to an extent), the only one that really feels ‘Legendary’ a lot of the time is Pos imo

[willow phoenix]

I think they made a point to make the Legendary more of a standalone effect with Pos being the exception lol

[hollow briar]

And Ares, I suppose

I guess considering Arti’s Legendary in the first game wasn’t even remotely close to being Crit-related, it kinda fits

[willow phoenix]

Ares is still pretty general as the blood drops affect your whole kit imo while Pos is literally if you're not doing a Pos build it's useless

[forest hinge]

Exit Wounds as Art's legendary was always very strange to me. Cool, but strange

[hollow briar]

Although, granted, you’re only gonna be investing in his Splash Boons and taking more of him if your build is centered on it for the most part

[forest hinge]

also if anyone has an Arcana set for Selene i could use it lol

[hollow briar]

Oh, thank god EWounds wasn’t the Lego. That would’ve made it even worse LOL. It was the +2 Casts Boon

[willow phoenix]

I still get Pos legendary sometimes when I get him just for Geyser Spout or Sea Star lol. Sometimes you just put him on an attack/special you don't use

[hollow briar]

Sure, sure, but I also don’t always necessarily need or even want stronger Blood Drops for a build either, yfm

[willow phoenix]

I wish both Ares and Pos legendary get changed because of that tbh lol

[uneven palm]

Rolls-and-money corner, Persistence, your choice Strength/Death, Sorceress, rest is up to you. I like running Selene with Night and alternating big Omegas, or Origination to power up the space lasers.

[uneven palm]

Oh I’ll have to double check that. It seemed like it helped?

[hollow briar]

It very well could’ve and I’m completely wrong, but I’ve operated assuming that… well, actually, the Daybreaker is just really weird

If you have the Apollo Legendary, the second Daybreaker used to not copy specials but did have its own pulsing Attack. Whether that’s still the case, I don’t really know

[hollow briar]

Yeah, it really is just an odd choice to have them buff core parts of their own kit while a lot of others are completely new things even if it’s still related to their design or function as Gods

Like, we live in a world where Hestia’s thematically fits but is so astronomically terrible that I really wonder why they didn’t throw something involving Scorch or a new fire-related effect/Curse in there

Maybe they’re afraid whatever it could be would end up being too strong with some of the Duos or something, but still

[loud moat]

Does anyone know, can you get Steady Growth from Dem as your very first boon? Or does it require that you have at least 1 other boon first?

[sage flame]

it can hit itself, so maybe

[junior trail]

it requires at least 1 boon that is not heroic

same thing as bridal glow

[bleak night]

Ngl Prominence Flare on Charon is kinda bad anyway so you aren't missing much

[willow phoenix]

Tbf firewalk in a total vacuum is a good boon. If you're doing nothing but sprinting it's really strong which is also why it's bad since it doesn't really translate to normal gameplay lol

They just need to make it trigger on every movement and not just sprint imo

[forest hinge]

I just had a crazy Moros run(that died unfortunately) but I've been enlightened to Zeus' boons

really fun and easy blitz procs on Moros lol

[civic ocean]

Has anybody tested if Firewalk makes Prometheus' moves do 1 damage

[willow phoenix]

Only the fire he leaves on the ground and not the initial impact too

[civic ocean]

Lame

If it did that it would be legit on surface

Because it lowkey smashes typhon he gets hit by it like 6 times no

[waxen garden]

they should make it so that Hestia's legendary deals damage equivalent to the amount of scorch as it ticks down

[willow phoenix]

Yea it's very easy to use on Typhon

[civic ocean]

I am still on the “make legendaries way easier to obtain but make them more niche and less gamebreaking” train but eh

[waxen garden]

Fourth Degree: every second, inflict damage equal to the Scorch on enemies

[loud moat]

Would have to look at Aphro duo then. Would 2k damage a second be too game breaking? Or maybe something that pops scorce once it hits a threshold?

Or whatever you can build it to. Is there an upper limit?

[waxen garden]

yeah having an Arctic Blast-like effect would also work

[loud moat]

Speaking of duo, Hestia and Zeus need to step it up. the Scorch on blitz proc is just so nieche

[waxen garden]

IMO a problem with Scorch is that there's no real upside to stacking a lot on an enemy, and bosses purge it when they change phases

[loud moat]

Maybe combined with something like Zeus chain lightning?

[loud moat]

Yea, its just pre-damage/poison that you need to wait to burn down, unless you have Demeter freeze combo to pop it.

[waxen garden]

I think it would be so cool if it worked like poison does in StS

but that would be too powerful maybe

[loud moat]

It kinda already does right? Not 1 to 1, but in practice.

[waxen garden]

no, it ticks down at a fixed rate

I'm imagining something like: 10 scorch -> 10 damage, ticks down to 9 scorch -> 9 damage, ticks down to 8, etc.

[loud moat]

Maybe making the damage more, the more curses have been applied to a target?

For the Zeus Duo I mean.

[waxen garden]

I think if they scaled damage to the amount of scorch and massively reduced scorch numbers it could work the way I'm imagining without being overpowered

and it would be a good alternative to Poseidon on Pan daggers

[loud moat]

Would have to see the enemy health values. Im curious if they tried this already pre release or if this is the first iteration.

[waxen garden]

OTOH maybe they're happy with how Scorch is, just like Hangover in Hades 1 which I rarely pick as a primary damage source

or even Heph blasts, which are not great unless they're high rarity and leveled up

[loud moat]

Honestly love heph blasts. Really makes you play differently.

Even maxed you end up with a maximum damage per second, but its still blast.

[waxen garden]

as long as you're having a blast playing them

[civic ocean]

I feel like I want scorch to go to 10 ticks of 8 damage, have Pyro technique increase the ticks to 12/14/16/18, and change Hestia’s Legendary to Air Quality

That would be a bit too straightforward maybe, but it would make her a lot stronger

[waxen garden]

Air Quality definitely makes a lot more sense as a Hestia boon

[midnight bone]

I am begging the devs to never get rid of the blood drops because i just messed around for a whole boss fight and got +165% movement and strike speed

[willow phoenix]

Honestly Scorch feels great if you get like an epic Pyro Technique. It's just so dependent on Pyro Technique to be good though outside of Freezer Burn build

[stable herald]

I hope they update the vfx for Soot Sprint Heat Rush at some point... tbh I'm not sure that Fire Walk is legendary-tier and shouldn't just be combined with Heat Rush

[forest hinge]

yo does Momus' delayed bursts copy the effects of Hestia's fireball boons or Hera's Fine Line boon?

also does anyone know how Momus interacts with Night Arcana?

[junior trail]

iirc no, instead momus copies omega cast stuff, like sword ring, cut above, meat grinder, and geyser spout

[forest hinge]

so Momus only copies stuff for the O cast, but not other stuff?

[bleak night]

@magic moss @glossy forge

I got the thing down https://youtu.be/9QtcfLuejEI it took a while

probs don't add to the sheet since it's bug abuse

[magic moss]

heres the incredibly interesting thing, is it really bug abuse?

[bleak night]

yes, I am literally permanently invulnerable lmao

[magic moss]

send the vic screen btw, its going up meme run or not

[bleak night]

oh I didn't take one, you can get it off the end of the vid ig

[magic moss]

by the wording of bridal glow, theres nothing explicitly preventing it from hitting stutter step, nor is there anything that says otherwise

[bleak night]

oh my control scheme thing is blocking it. Is that okay

[magic moss]

Stutter Step is a boon, and Bridal glow rarifies a boon. It can hit Artemis and those are unpommable, so i dont see why it hitting stutter step is necessarily a bug?

[bleak night]

idk doesn't seem intended ?

[magic moss]

if its not intended then it should be made explicitly clear, you can see that explicitly stated with success rate for example

if it gets patched out next patch, then yeah we can assume it wasnt intended. As it currently stands, idk seems like an intended interaction, just a very rare one

[signal coral]

the unintended part seems to be the pom levels giving giga overflow scaling

[bleak night]

fair enough lol

[signal coral]

like im okay with bridal glow hitting stutter step and giving +40% dash speed like heroic is supposed to

but it feels like a bug when it hits stutter step and now the boon description says it gives -1270% dash speed and you have no dash cooldown anymore

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252732088378200146/1352139875306045554/image.png?ex=67dcede3&is=67db9c63&hm=ade943b15b42333cbb07e96144e7f6f5169c7b676d0c982b9cc79bf619d054a3& HUH?

[analog quail]

GET HEPH CAST ASAP

[junior trail]

it works only with 1 hit cast sadly

something like anvil and arctic will softlock cast

[bleak night]

it was permanently on the ground lol

[fluid agate]

can i have a build for the black coat? i havent played since release and am struggling to beat Prometheus :(. I dont have Ares, and my stuff arent high level either.

[bleak night]

Poseidon on attack and spam dash attack, find Zeus for Special and Static Shock, from there you can just build defensively. While you dash, you can shoot rockets

[junior trail]

momus attack/special
✅ dmg increase effect (weed killer, secret crush), applying status curse, cut above
❌ exceptional talent, controlled burn, fine line

momus cast
✅ applying status curse, sword ring, cut above, meat grinder, geyser spout, easy shot
❌ prominence flare, arctic gale

[bleak night]

It's usually the best go-to build for it

[fluid agate]

thank u

any particular hammer i should look out for?

[bleak night]

Exhaust Riser and Launcher Frame, Exhaust Riser prio

[fluid agate]

okay noted, thanks

[forest hinge]

just saw this thanks! what a weirdly specific list of can/can't proc for Momus

[void idol]

i think the critical chance only applies for the original omega move, cause otherwise the skull icon above mels head isn't present

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think you still want to alternate between the two omegas with night

[proven citrus]

is demeter cast too good or should we be allowed to have nice things

[bleak night]

It's good for defense/utility, you still need to build damage

I think it's fine to have things that are strong

[proven citrus]

i think i just like

i basically never ever take demeter on my attack or special, partly because her damage modifier is so low but primarily because her cast is so good

[bleak night]

they might need to slightly buff the ratios on it

because people don't think about taking them for that very reason

only reason people might wanna take those is to detonate Freezer Burn without being sparing of the cast

[proven citrus]

ya

the last time i took dem special was like two patches ago when i had hestia on my dagger attack

[void idol]

do chaos boons for attack and boons that add attack power affect dash strikes too?

[civic ocean]

I don’t mind going demeter on primary weapon on stuff like skulls especially if I am playing Origination

But if I get offered Ring instead I will take it and pivot which I think is fine

[rotund nacelle]

This is certainly not intended, and completely trivializes the game. The bug isn't that Bridal Glow can hit Hermes boons, it's that Hermes boon level scaling is wildly out of balance. Presumably it's pulling some default value that got tuned for every other god, but not Hermes because there was never supposed to be a way to level a Hermes boon. Level 3+ Stutter Step and Divine Dash is complete immortality, game over, run won. For the sake of Speedrun/High Fear leaderboards, any run with a leveled Hermes boon should not be considered valid until this is fixed. See this run as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY_PgJ7RVWs

[rotund nacelle]

IMO, put them on the sheet, but in their own separate tab

[bleak night]

why is your dash so much more useful than the one I got lol (Sword Dash)

[rotund nacelle]

Sword Dash is probably better for this than Thunder Dash. The big difference is Than Axe vs. Mel Axe. I was consistently getting both blasts of Dashing Heave

Sword Dash is also more buffable than Thunder Dash with the Apollo and Heph duos

[bleak night]

issue with sword dash is that it seemed like the swords weren't falling? Either way Aphro dash probs the best here no?

I couldn't get Passion Rush sadly since I had to erase it to grab Secret Crush

[rotund nacelle]

You might NEED the Heph duo then since it makes the swords fall faster

[viscid wave]

Speaking of Dem casts - her gust effect stacks with regular cast slot boons I believe? Like I can have rapture ring and arctic gale at the same time, but couldnt take rapture ring and arctic ring

Are there other cast effects like arctic gale that stack?? (Not, like, omega-casts like meat grinder, that I see as another separate thing again) but like Demeter's secondary gust effect - it feels like there arent a lot of equivalents to that from the other gods? (Slackers)

[bleak night]

yeah, just too much investment when it's an instawin

[junior trail]

meat grinder!

[rotund nacelle]

Passion Dash is probably the easiest to take advantage of the dash speed. If you're taking Heph to proc Bridal Glow, then going for Sword Rush, Coffin Nail might be the play

[bleak night]

Yeah, just sad that Pash Rush was deleted

I'll try again with Coat eventually, just not rn

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, running attempts for this is kinda despair

[bleak night]

yep. I tried the other Hermes boons as well and don't waste your time with em

Winner's Circle just got planted on the ground and stayed there permanently, the rest have decent-to-great scaling, but nothing as broken as Stutter Step. Travel Deal was 55% discounts according to someone, but that's not the most busted thing

[junior trail]

Success Rate is +150% at lv. 4 also

[rotund nacelle]

I got it on Winner's Circle once with Sword Ring and Coffin Nail, which was kinda fun. Damage fell off kinda hard without the Apollo duo as well though. #h2-victory-boasting message

[bleak night]

Apparently the stutter step tech just makes you rapid fire Trick Knives ?

yeah just no way they're going not patch it out

[rotund nacelle]

Hear me out, this with Lv4 White Antler. Guaranteed Crits

[bleak night]

What level was the Winner's Circle ?

I had a level 2 Heroic one and it just never left the ground at all

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252732088378200146/1352139875306045554/image.png?ex=67dcede3&is=67db9c63&hm=ade943b15b42333cbb07e96144e7f6f5169c7b676d0c982b9cc79bf619d054a3&

Wondering with that instant timer if Anvil Ring would just instaClang 3x still ?

[rotund nacelle]

Level 4 -188%

[bleak night]

Oh huh, wtf is that scaling

lemme test on Clang

[rotund nacelle]

It should. Anvil Ring saying 1/sec is just a lie since it does 3 both with a normal Winner's Circle and with Charon Axe

[bleak night]

okay now it works

[bleak night]

the moment I put Anvil Ring on it, it won't leave the ground. wtf

[rotund nacelle]

That's Hilarious. Try with Posiedon Cast

[bleak night]

Works. It's allergic to Anvil Ring

[rotund nacelle]

I would guess that overlapping the three clang animations just breaks it completely. Similar to how Ares' swords don't fall without Coffin Nail

[bleak night]

lemme try stutter step with trick knives, apparently it's broken

[rotund nacelle]

Uhhh, yeah. Autofiring special on dash strike sounds like it would be broken with infinite dashes

[bleak night]

wtf is this

You wanna see what's happening

[rotund nacelle]

Yes

[bleak night]

hop on the speedcord vc rq

[junior trail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1351057987577450588/1352211770063716362/Untitled.png?ex=67dd30d8&is=67dbdf58&hm=e9606afa23871ff0a46a128bdb25da0bab084e1148ab35caa1a90af4b1f8fb1d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless okay now we're talking

[rotund nacelle]

Any chance you could lend me that for a quick 50F run?

[cinder palm]

Y'all I'm trying to vridal glow stutter step rn why isn't it working 😭

It always hit the 1 other boon instead of it

[rotund nacelle]

Make sure the other boon is an unpommable boon (Heph: Uncanny Fortitude, Heavy Metal, Aphrodite: Life Affirmation, Secret Crush). Then it's a 50/50 which one it hits

[junior trail]

Extended Family works as well, it also cuts Hera’s boon pool

[cinder palm]

Is there a starting keepsake I should use? I used hera's fan but it always give me her boon

[rotund nacelle]

Either Hera or Heph/Aphrodite since they both have two unpommables. Either way it'll likely take hours of resetting to get it to work

[void idol]

can someone calculate the effective hp in terms of percentage when using strength or death defiances

[proven citrus]

a standard death defiance from the death card grants 40% of your hp back

so having three of them could be seen as +120% hp

and then for comparison strength halves the damage you take which could be expressed as +100% hp

it's not really the most useful comparison though

strength effectively also doubles the value of all sources of healing

death defiances offer more protection against instakill move(s?) and really high damage attacks that can overkill

like if you're at 1 hp with a death defiance you're better off in that situation compared to being at 41 hp with strength about to be hit for 50

[void idol]

no i mean i have used strength only for a few weeks now and it feels better, but maybe at like 45 fear which i haven't been able to beat yet dds are worth it?

[spare kite]

Once scars 3 comes into play DDs go up a lot yeah

[surreal hazel]

wait, what poms on hermes boon

oh I just read the bug effect, lol

so boons that don't have a pom scaling mechanism put in just add whatever the effect of a common version actually does to the effect

but with things like winner's circle reporting weird stuff, yeah, I can see what might cause that

so the actual buff it gives at heroic is -(7/11)

or -63.63% omega cast time

but a common is -50%. so add those together and a level 2 heroic winning circle makes your casts happen in... 113.63% less time

and when you run the maths to convert that to a display text

1/ (100-113.63)/100) = -7.33

-7.33 * 100 - 100 = -833%

it stays forever because the game tick the cast is waiting for before expires is set to a time before it even spawns, so it never reaches it

There's also potential for being able to pom infusions this way

which should just add the entire effect of the infusion for each level you add

Steady growth might literally get worse with each level

....Heck Brave Face is actually potentially bridally-glowable and idk what that'd do

[spare kite]

Hall of fame bug

[surreal hazel]

Mutual destruction might get kinda funny crit chances since each level is +0.1% per hp lost

So optimally gives you 0.56% per lost hp. Which is a lot

100% chance if you've lost/primed 178hp

[spare kite]

Huh I thought mutual was already pommable

[surreal hazel]

nah

[spare kite]

It shows I don't take it lol

[junior trail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1351057987577450588/1352245236625047584/image.png?ex=67dd5003&is=67dbfe83&hm=540fe235250e836a4f9bb81ef6092acf6b12a4976f227f52d4be998efc0396ca&=&format=webp&quality=lossless it increases the counts unfortunately

[surreal hazel]

yeah, thought it might

[spare kite]

Lmfaooooo

[surreal hazel]

+6 encounters per level, as that's the common value

extended family would be 10 + 6*levels

[spare kite]

Pike would be like, +300?

[surreal hazel]

Dunno if it even allows hers to be picked at all

oh lol

SEA STAR

35% +20%*levels

[spare kite]

That one is pommable normally

[surreal hazel]

oh wait, it is, damn

[spare kite]

Yeah someone had a heroic lvl 27(?) at 93% (with S.rate)

[surreal hazel]

Buried treasure would be +50% per level gained

[spare kite]

Golden rule stonks

[surreal hazel]

High Surf is +30 per level

[junior trail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1351057987577450588/1352246408492748860/image.png?ex=67dd511b&is=67dbff9b&hm=8f484ed65282ebca7513043ab4f694e073b7f9450e28ebfb8ce336d9e594ce76&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[spare kite]

Beautiful

[surreal hazel]

life affirmation is +40% per pom, lol

so up to +230% bonus hp

I do wanna see what infusions do, but this literally requires a creation boon from chaos

[spare kite]

Wait, defensive posture would be really funny too

Or does bridal glow not hit stuff that go on the bottom of your UI

[surreal hazel]

it can hit steady growth

[spare kite]

Also what's the exact set up for this?
Have 2 unpommables and pray?

[surreal hazel]

erm, lol, don't use bridal glow on stalwart stand, each level will add 150 primed magicka

[spare kite]

Lmfao

[surreal hazel]

or just one

[spare kite]

Seeing bridal with no cores filled is annoying

[surreal hazel]

which is why this never got noticed until now

[surreal hazel]

errr, no it wouldn't

[spare kite]

Oh it adds cd no

[surreal hazel]

hit defensive posture with an epic bridal glow annnnnnd

59 second recharge

[spare kite]

Wheeze

[surreal hazel]

errr

ERRRR, pressure points.

in fact, basically all of artemis

[spare kite]

Yeah

[surreal hazel]

well, 5 of the 8

Death Warrant literally gets worse

94 second cooldown, nice

[spare kite]

Imagine if mint condition was unpommable

[surreal hazel]

or Hydraulic might

but yeah, they have pom scaling defined

[spare kite]

What about travel deal

[surreal hazel]

oddly not everything that can be pommed actually has pom scaling defined

[spare kite]

Meaning?

[surreal hazel]

The rule is for any boon without pom scaling defined, it adds the full effect of the common boon to the variable

Rapture ring has no scaling defined, so each pom adds 10 damage to each pulse, since a common rapture ring deals 10 damage

[spare kite]

Ahhh, hereditary bane is like that no

[untold zodiac]

any other boons like this?

[surreal hazel]

yes, and grand caldera

[spare kite]

And static shock used to be

[surreal hazel]

and the old electric overload

and.... all infusions

so if somehow you can bridal glow an infusion (You'll need a creation boon from chaos here), then it will multiply its effect per level

[untold zodiac]

it's good they have a default formula
but the one they're using seems a bit too generous

[surreal hazel]

it's a failsafe

there's a few generic fomulae they apply to boons with scaling

[spare kite]

Is that why stutter gets to like +700% or is that a weird display thing

[surreal hazel]

usual rule is that the first pom is the same effect as adding one rarity, or half the effect of a common

[surreal hazel]

weird display bug

[surreal hazel]

This is the reason winning circle says -833% at heroic level 2

(click the reply for all of the calcs, it's a bit weird)

lol, if you can pom Air quality, the damage min will literally be 30*level

[prisma wind]

Damn

Air Quality at 120 min damage + Scorch

[surreal hazel]

150 if it's an epic bridal glow

[spare kite]

Use hera's rarify on epic bridal glow

[prisma wind]

150??? Wow
Is this finally a useful infusion with 150 min damage?

[spare kite]

Is the heal boon from dem pommable

Wait could it hit chaos

[prisma wind]

I think it is pommable, yes

[spare kite]

Damn

[prisma wind]

I still prefer the old one

[bleak night]

you can Bridal Glow infusions ?

[surreal hazel]

I don't know

but I can tell you what might happen if you do, the problem is the elemental pre-req

[spare kite]

Can bridal glow hit the same boon again if sold

[surreal hazel]

probably!

[spare kite]

I.e can you do stupid purging well stuff

[surreal hazel]

unlikely, but yes

I did find earlier that Extended Family can be force levelled like this

currently got a paused run with +156% olympian damage

dio might yet turn up

[spare kite]

Shame dio is so late in the run

[bleak night]

yes

seems like they'll add the pool of purging upstairs as well anyway

there's space for one more construct in the rest areas

[spare kite]

Bridal glow'd worry free

Blood spree also funny

[rotund nacelle]

Is this from datamined stuff? Are the Duos and Infusions even calculated based on level or is the level hard coded?

[surreal hazel]

extrapolating from reading the scripts, yeah

everything in principle can be pommed, and most boons that can be have subroutines that define how poms works, but if there isn't, there's a default behaviour

boons that are flagged to be unpommable obviously don't have pom functions defined, because why would they?

Just the bridal glow has a bit of a booboo in it where it merely prioritises pommable boons to pick, it doesn't force them

Since the "unpommable" flag really just stops poms/pom slices picking them as an option

it doesn't actually prevent levels being gained

So Duos could gain levels, whether or not this actually affects what they do at all is a different question

[rotund nacelle]

Makes sense, that's pretty much what I was expecting from the behavior we've seen

[surreal hazel]

since duos and legendaries aren't designed to scale at all, it's entirely possibly that making them gain levels doesn't do anything

[rotund nacelle]

I had always wondered why duos were formatted the same as other boons, where they have a description separate from a key number, despite not having any way to gain rarity/levels that alter that number. I think we've seen runs where people have had an infusion alongside only unpommables and gotten Bridal Glow and I've yet to see it hit an infusion/duo

[surreal hazel]

They basically are

they managed to rework Pyro Technique from a legendary into a regular boon without much effort

[rotund nacelle]

That being said, things like Hasty Retreat need to keep a count of the current number of boons and (presumably) infusions and duo are counted on that list. So if Bridal Glow's selection uses that same "currently equipped" list then it might have a chance to hit duos/infusions

[surreal hazel]

but for more "unscalable" funcitons obviously there's nothing to work with

adding levels to King's ransom after initially getting the boon would probably do nothing

Cherished heirloom adding +5 keepsake levels would be ???

Room Temperature is literally a binary function

[spare kite]

Shocking loss sounds funny

[surreal hazel]

You can success rate that anyway

and yes, it is funny at 30%

[spare kite]

King tide

[surreal hazel]

sunny disposition

+2 per level

[spare kite]

Hestia/heph maybe?

[surreal hazel]

Would just widen the trigger window

[spare kite]

Would heph's work

[surreal hazel]

Heph legendary would try to add extra levels, but it probably just caps it at 6 anyway

since level 6 is defined in the weapon aspects individually

[rotund nacelle]

I believe rarity increases effectively remove the boon, then add it back at a higher rarity. So if you got more Hera boons after Kings Ransom, it would essentailly double proc, perhaps at a +5 or +6 levels per boon

[surreal hazel]

manually, that is, it's not a formula

[spare kite]

I see

Even just hitting secret crush sounds fun if playing like blades

A 2nd wicked onslaught

Hestia doesn't have any funny unpommable

[surreal hazel]

nor does Zeus

[rotund nacelle]

Burnt Offering

[spare kite]

That just affects the ashes given at pick up

[surreal hazel]

would be useless to pom it at all

[rotund nacelle]

How does it interact with rarity increases though? Does it give the ashes again? If so, that's a TON of extra mana

[spare kite]

If you are setting this up in ephyra thessaly already feeds too many ashes

[magic moss]

fair enough, maybe ill do like a “most broken bridal glow challenge” or smthing for fun but i wont add to the sheet

[spare kite]

Imagine if trusty shield wasn't pommable

[surreal hazel]

actual broken easily goes to winner's circle

hilariously overpowered is an open question for now

[spare kite]

Prob some crit boon no

[rotund nacelle]

Maybe a place in the Aspect Hall of Fame alongside patch 1 Momus and patch 7 Mel Skull?

[spare kite]

How much does S.rate give you with this, 150%~?

[spare kite]

Mel skull craziness is patch 8

Patch 7 was just "special now recalls" and changed how you shoot the attack

[surreal hazel]

add +30% for each level on top of the 60% for heroic

each level gained, that is, so level 2 is +1 level

[rotund nacelle]

Oh, my bad

[atomic ibex]

I wonder what other boons we could mess with using the bridal glow glitch. I first discovered this glitch with Vital Signs, so I imagine Lethal Snare would go crazy

[spare kite]

Any crit goes crazy minus death warrant

Stutter is really silly

[surreal hazel]

boons with very high common bonuses are ones to look for

lethal snare is 10,12,14,16%

but each level would add +10%

[atomic ibex]

Casually 36 crit rate with a rare bridal glow..

Who needs white antler?

[spare kite]

What's the base for the special crit chance, 20%?

[surreal hazel]

Which one?

[rotund nacelle]

"Most Broken" in the gameplay trivializing sense goes to Stutter Step with Divine Dash. "Most Broken" in the causes the game to not function correctly or crash sense might go to Hard Target, I've heard that one can just crash the game

[spare kite]

Killing stroke

Prime mana for special crit chance

[surreal hazel]

ah, that one

[atomic ibex]

Killing Stroke is 10/12/14/16

[spare kite]

Oh ew

[surreal hazel]

so +4 lv would be 56% crit

[surreal hazel]

I did wonder what a negative projectile speed would do, heh

[spare kite]

Are you in speedcord

[surreal hazel]

-60% and a further -30% per level

[rotund nacelle]

#1051942150025269309 message From speedcord

[surreal hazel]

me?

[atomic ibex]

Hasty Retreat could also be fun. I wonder if you could use the Athena invincibility boon too..

[spare kite]

Yeah someone got lvl 3 -speed there lol

[spare kite]

Defensive posture adds more cd instead of reducing

[surreal hazel]

projectiles fire backwards?

[atomic ibex]

Ah dammit

[spare kite]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1051942150025269309/1352165157790416947/HardTarget.mp4?ex=67dd056f&is=67dbb3ef&hm=00aadcd1a79d6c3cf4aa3261167ef828f64ed778224dc67388c56b2b2d371d6a& yeah

[bleak night]

fam

does Unseen Ire seem to be 10 seconds instead of the 5 it advertises on the boon ?

[surreal hazel]

phawaaha

[spare kite]

It absolutely lasts longer yes

[bleak night]

weird

[surreal hazel]

also that is a revenge boon that heinous affront procs btw

[junior trail]

wow rly

[spare kite]

Yup, but no defensive posture

[surreal hazel]

yep

free mint condition that starts counting when you start hitting something

and can be refreshed in the middle of a battle if it goes on long enough

With +100% damage for a giggle

[spare kite]

Also +100% global lol

[untold zodiac]

2 boons that soon? how?

[spare kite]

Mod I assume

[surreal hazel]

you need a different revenge boon to get affront to be offered, but yeah, it procs

sadly Tough Gain is not a revenge boon

so no free mana fountain for inflicting wounds

Sadly we also lost Nasty Comeback, although I have no idea how that damage calculation would work with heinous affront

[spare kite]

Prob why it was removed lol

[junior trail]

imagine if it procs paid dues for some reason tho lol

[surreal hazel]

quite possibly, but it is strange that we only have 3 olympian revenge boons

Vengeful Mood from H1 had like, 6

[spare kite]

Does apollo have any possible bridal glow funnies

[spare kite]

They were probably waiting to see if we liked heinous enough
V.mood was kinda bad

[surreal hazel]

None, everything Apollo has can be pommed normally

[surreal hazel]

it had mad potential, but was greedy for boons

and well, it wasn't exactly Lightning Rod for madness

What I've noticed as well now is that H2's Divine vengeance does have quite a delay between multiple strikes

ah, just checked, 0.5seconds

so even if you use success rate and a level 20 divine vengeance, it can still take a while to actually play out the strikes

[spare kite]

Interesting

So like final summary for funny bridal glow boons
-aphro's +hp%
-stutter step/hermes in general
-arty stuff
-Athena's pikes
?

[surreal hazel]

and double strike seems to just roll for an extra strike each time it fires, and adds to that queue, I think

[surreal hazel]

I've got a run saved for later with Extended Family going, I have +156% olympian damage going, with potential for more

[spare kite]

So if you get x5 vengeance and double procs multiple times you'll have to wait for the lightning from double?

[junior trail]

bounce back +240%

[rotund nacelle]

Does Blood Spree actually work with Scars 3 on? The description doesn't update but it shouldn't work

[junior trail]

no

[surreal hazel]

I'm not quite sure, but it might be that x5 vengeance might make some double strike procs, and they just add to that same queue playing out every 0.5 secnds

[rotund nacelle]

Thanks

[spare kite]

I was thinking dio too but he's on 3rd biome so kinda hard to see him without pommables

[surreal hazel]

Highly unlikely

but has anyone checked if Medea stuff can be pommed?

[spare kite]

Oh yeah uncanny can be fun to pom too

[surreal hazel]

or heck, even weapon mods. they're all basically built the same

[spare kite]

Like hammers?

[surreal hazel]

but I haven't got the latest TraitData_Hera to hand where I am currently to check

[rotund nacelle]

I don't think Double Strike bypasses the cap on Divine Vengence strikes. It just adds to the base 50% chance for another strike

[junior trail]

the ones that currently bypass scars 3 are vampiric cataclysm (staff hammer), demeter's plentiful forage, and well of charon's breath of eros & charity bottle

[surreal hazel]

It's a separate function that runs a different check

one is ZeusRetaliate and the other is DoubleBoltChance

ah right, reading this better

divine vengeance loops a load to check how many extra strikes it does

then it passes it to the lighting bolt code, which itself runs a double strike check which can add exactly one extra bolt to the whole process

[spare kite]

So double strike scam with divine?

[surreal hazel]

but it does inherit the 0.5 seconds strike delay

whereas normally the doublestrike delay is 0.1

yeah, it doesn't run the double strike chance once per vengeance bolt, as it were

[spare kite]

Laaaaame

[rotund nacelle]

Does the "Divine Vengeance x[X]" popup include the Double Strike Bolt if it rolls it?

[surreal hazel]

no, that pop up is evaluated by the vengeance function before it gets to the bit where it rolls the double strike

I'm using old scripts here but I doubt this bit has changed

[rotund nacelle]

So Success Rate should be the only thing able to affect the number of Divine Vengeance strikes?

[surreal hazel]

well, the cap is defined by rarity+poms

but the 50% chance it rolls iteratively is only changed by success rate, yes

changing that 50% into 75% REALLY changes how many strikes you're likely to get

as in, it literally doubles the number of strikes you expect to get, assuming you have a high enough strike cap

[junior trail]

tested with bridal'd success rate, it triggers 4x literally every time wow

[surreal hazel]

that will just make it 100%

at worst 80%

no, more than 80%

95%

[rotund nacelle]

If Success Rate is +100% or more it will be a guaranteed max roll

[surreal hazel]

heroic level 2 success rate is +90%

[rotund nacelle]

Yeah, then level 2 is 95% and Level 3 would be guaranteed

[bleak night]

goddamn you people are really into it huh

[rotund nacelle]

It's either this or keep malding in 50F surface runs

[bleak night]

mald

[rotund nacelle]

#h2-victory-boasting message

[rotund nacelle]

You say that like I'm not already doing both

[bleak night]

fair enough.

[rotund nacelle]

Surely this is the run I just get goated RNG and it's an easy clear

[spare kite]

Gotta enjoy before its gone

[atomic ibex]

Couldn't you get success rate to an absurdly high number with bridal glow? And get stuff like 100% divine vengeance or 50% grievous blow?

[surreal hazel]

easily

each rank makes success rate add +30%

[signal coral]

ive been trying out zeus start on knives and coat and it feels pretty good so far

plan is the grab blitz special + chain lightning from zeus, any reasonable attack boon

both those weapons can weave in special every few seconds without much lag, so it feels very good to apply blitz easily and then pop with attack

[latent marsh]

what vows do you use for 32 fear?

[civic ocean]

Depends on what you do when you play I think

[latent marsh]

i play axe and coat

[signal coral]

I use frenzy 2, menace 2, return 2, fangs 1, scars 1, shadow 1, forfeit 1, time 3, hubris 2, denial 1

For underworld I swap forfeit for debt plus one random point somewhere

Oops fangs 2

Made a typo

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSm2KltkfvUcVAxeqa8TE1Ix1N1u5I2bgC94rUjXs1tegyOZoeVM0H_JVuyNDEmYB5Sl-CxCTA7FLlV/pubhtml I have the Fear at the bottom of each guide you can start there and iterate

[latent marsh]

tysm both of you

[orchid cradle]

What's the best keepsake to use with strength? I usually play aspect of Charon and aspect of pan.

[civic ocean]

What do you mean?

Probably not the ones that give you a Death Defiance like Tooth and Pin but everything else really depends

[orchid cradle]

I'm kinda new to this game so I just wanted to know what keepsakes other people would recommend

[civic ocean]

Well the honest answer is that it depends on like 7 other things but you can start with the Charon guide here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSm2KltkfvUcVAxeqa8TE1Ix1N1u5I2bgC94rUjXs1tegyOZoeVM0H_JVuyNDEmYB5Sl-CxCTA7FLlV/pubhtml

[orchid cradle]

Thank you

[signal coral]

If you are tryharding:

Force your core god in the first zone
Afterwards force whatever else is needed for your damage to be functional in the second zone, or if you have good damage already force a defensive god (Athena, demeter, heph)

In the last few zones take whatever feels good

I usually take hammer on most weapons if I don't need anything else and the weapon has no bad hammers

[orchid cradle]

I'm trying to get good at the game so I should probably learn what each god is good for, right?

[signal coral]

Then knuckle bones into the final zone

[signal coral]

Yeah most weapons have one god they like the most

[sage flame]

hera zeus demeter heph, we all say in unison

[signal coral]

You can just ask

[orchid cradle]

Ok I'll do that if I need any help, thanks

[signal coral]

Some weapons are flexible and can do whatever and be mostly fine (staff for example) others benefit a lot from some gods

General utility gods that are good in every build are demeter, heph, ares

[night lagoon]

Hera, too

[signal coral]

Yeah hera is good too but I usually take her as core damage

Not so much randomly in zone 2 for utility

[orchid cradle]

I want to mostly play aspect of charon

[sage flame]

grabbing extended family and bridal glow or uncommon grace go crazy tho tbh

[night lagoon]

Uncommon Grace is a fairly easy thing to build for, a lot of builds have something for Extended Family to work off of, Proper Upbringing can effectively be free poms, and then you have her duos that also give fantastic utility

[orchid cradle]

And start with Ares to get the cast

[signal coral]

Start with Apollo on charon usually

Charon takes a lot of Magick to work and Apollo gain is the best boon for it

[orchid cradle]

Alright

[night lagoon]

Also, Apollo Special is nice for doubling up on hits from the puddles overlapping

[orchid cradle]

And should I go for Ares in oceanus then?

[night lagoon]

Are you taking Ares to try and get Meat Grinder and/or the Demeter duo?

[orchid cradle]

I'm taking him because I was told his special is good and meat grinder also sounds pretty good

I'm not entirely sure yet

[spare kite]

Charon can use a lot of specials

[signal coral]

I think if you want to experiment, as long as you start Apollo gain and you make sure you're standing in your cast every time you o special then it's good

Can try out different gods and boon combos

The big limiter is just Magick, which Apollo gain solves

[orchid cradle]

And I should also get apollo special if I can?

[night lagoon]

I forget, does Charon's cast detonation work with Super Nova (i.e. it detonates at max size, even if you blow it up immediately)?

[signal coral]

I don't think so

[spare kite]

Pretty sure it does

[orchid cradle]

Should I go for any gods cast or is that not that important?

[spare kite]

Anything that activates the origination arcana basically

[night lagoon]

Not super important, but I like Aphro for the pull-in or Demeter for the freeze

The fact that those two also proc Origination is just icing on the cake

[orchid cradle]

But I thought I needed two curses for origination

[spare kite]

If you go dem cast you want a curse on your special or Apollo's dash

[signal coral]

iirc the best God after Apollo is poseidon, but his omega cast buff works with any base cast

[spare kite]

If you go other casts you can turn it on with your cast + artic gale

[signal coral]

So you can take dem cast or something like that

[spare kite]

And yeah geyser spout is really good

Keep in mind that meat grinder will block geyser and vice versa

[orchid cradle]

Are there any specials you would recommend for giving curses?

[civic ocean]

Zeus

Zeus and hera are good specials for charon special

[orchid cradle]

Ok

[spare kite]

Ares is funny if you want the crit lites but yeah

[civic ocean]

But bear in mind Charon does so much damage you don’t really need to play Origination if you find it difficult to put together the two curses

You can try with and without and see what works for you

[orchid cradle]

Ok I'll just experiment with that then

Alright, thank you very much for all your help!

[uneven palm]

Here's how I think about building Charon #h2-builds-and-combat message

[orchid cradle]

Ok I'll check It out

Thanks I'm gonna try it like that

[signal coral]

Btw what's the meta blades build? Or is there even one

(Not pan, pan build is obvious)

I have just been forcing Zeus and it feels strong to me but idk if the community has settled on something else

[versed locust]

Guys, whats the best build for beating typhon. I've been struggling for like 3 runs but i just cant get him

[signal coral]

Depends heavily on weapon aspect

What are you running?

[versed locust]

I mostly use staff with aspect of melinoe

And try to get a lot of Hephaestus boons

[signal coral]

Heph attack/special is generally bad

But his defensive boons and cast are good

[versed locust]

Oh really?

I used to consider his attack and special strong @_@

[signal coral]

The cooldown is way too long at base so it doesn't do good damage

[civic ocean]

What seems strong about the Mel Staff to you?

[atomic ibex]

Do you focus more on the omega moves or the base attack and special? Both can be used, but it influences what builds should be used

[round warren]

i want to make a build around zeus + apollo duo probably going to have other boons carry but anyway, what aspect would be good for that sort of thing?

[sage flame]

maybe perse for cast damage but honestly at this point idk if it actually boosts pflare and the duo. otherwise mel staff for channel speed cause youll def need it

[civic ocean]

Persephone! The aspect mitigates the downsides of Glorious Disaster/Prominence Flare and boosts the damage

I do it for 32 UW on my rotation and it’s heckin fun

[atomic ibex]

What weapon has the strongest dash strike? ( Not including hammers)

[civic ocean]

Strongest for what purpose

[atomic ibex]

Highest damage, lowest end lag, want to do a bridal glow shutter step run

[uneven palm]

Like Mel/Artemis can kinda do all? It’s hard to say what’s best. Buncha folks (me included) lately have been clearing 50F surface with Zeus flourish start and whatever on attack and it works out, which I wouldn’t have expected to emerge as the winning strategy but here we are.

[uneven palm]

Mel axe

[civic ocean]

Mel axe or any staff is probably good, animation probably doesnt work well on coat

[civic ocean]

Every time someone asks for a Meta build we should send them pictures of Meta Knight

[uneven palm]

Like if I were dreaming up the most perfect blade build for Mel or Artemis I’d right now say Trick Knives with Zeus or maybe Island Getaway Aphro, also lucking into Reaper Knives would be very silly

[civic ocean]

I just like doing Heinous on Mel Blades

[uneven palm]

Oh yeah Heinous rules

[civic ocean]

Damn I just played a whole 32 surface listening to The Yard and had my best Prometheus and Typhon fight ever

Maybe I am weak to brass music

[elfin forge]

podcast gaming

[civic ocean]

Also just did a Prominence Flare Glorious Disaster Persephone run and I gotta say

It do be a lot of damage

[broken thicket]

Is Icarus' keepsake weak or am I missing something about it?

[past salmon]

at max level as long as you don't take extra rooms/encounters the bonus hammer will last from the start of Oceanus to the end in UW and from the start of Olympus to End in SF

[analog quail]

start of oceanus? isn’t it more like start of fields? especially if you want any bonus rooms in tart

[civic ocean]

I think as long as you are always choosing not to take encounters where possible Foolish is correct

[analog quail]

huh, the more you know

[past salmon]

"as long as you don't take extra rooms/encounters"

[analog quail]

oh i can’t read

[sinful moon]

So i got this a while ago what keepsakes are key general? Do you start Zeus/Ares and force until complete? Or do you make sure you get hera along side? As how long do you run god keepsakes and eventually get Athena or the dps/defensive ones?

You're allowed to @ me btw

[signal coral]

Start born gain and just take whatever attack/special you find along the way

Plenty of reasonable options, just don't take like heph attack or whatever

[sinful moon]

Pet would be Hecuba? Seems mana intensive?

[signal coral]

Yes

The most important part is just having the mana to sustain the aspect

Torch eats mana like no other aspect

After you fix the mana issues everything else is secondary, lots of reasonable options once you can spam omegas freely without worrying