h2-builds-and-combat

[stoic tinsel]

though I'm quite nervous as to how on earth I get my time down to Time 3 viability

I'm not particularly close atm, I get very intimidated by armored enemies

[bleak night]

for the most part, a lot of it is just practicing fully sending it while avoiding damage

Sounds a lot simpler than it actually is, I know, but being very aggressive is the key to not worrying about timer, so you have to learn to just be evasive WHILE being aggro

[stoic tinsel]

is a bit tricky when my full send requires omegas

[bleak night]

What aspect are you playing ?

[stoic tinsel]

momus atm

[bleak night]

Don't fully need to use Omegas on Staff

[stoic tinsel]

yeah I figured out that much

[bleak night]

Mini does attack 1 - attack 2 - special

[magic moss]

which is a horrible playstyle but go off king

i think staff omega spam is more viable now

[stoic tinsel]

yeah I know about special cancel

[bleak night]

On Momus you can just set the Omegas down to target other things in the room while you go after other enemies

For the most part you should maybe be doing Omegas maybe 25-35% of the time

[last cape]

So, just read through the 50 fear guide. One thing that isn't touched on is familiars, but I expect it's mostly Hecuba and Gale right?

[stoic tinsel]

hecuba and gale are very good yes

[magic moss]

like i genuinely think night > huntress on momus and gain > attack boon is a better start

[bleak night]

Frinos is alright still, but yeah it's mostly Hecuba and Gale

Raki is only really an option if you're comfortable with 50 fear runs and you want the damage

[willow phoenix]

is first boon epic static shock very low chance or what lol, I've been rerolling seeds but getting static shock alone is very rare

[stoic tinsel]

Raki is also an excellent alcoholic beverage, 10/10

[bleak night]

first boon is always prio core no ?

game tries its best to give you a core

[last cape]

Considering you have all core boons available for offer yeah you're looking for a very specific seed

[willow phoenix]

I guess, but power surge and divine vengeance comes out a lot but no static shock so far

[stoic tinsel]

though I doubt our characters would have had the chance to try raki since it's a distillate

[bleak night]

game just hates you I think lol

[magic moss]

i should add a section on familiars, will do later

[magic moss]

btw im being serious with this

[stoic tinsel]

does coat block block hecate sheep?

[magic moss]

hell its getting to the point where i think night might even be better than origination for momus based on grasp efficiency

[magic moss]

no

[stoic tinsel]

sadge

[stoic tinsel]

I agree with gain first, though hitch is a nice luxury against the wards

[last cape]

It's a shame that SGG gave us a cat and made it utterly unusable. I love cats

[stoic tinsel]

with % builds you are pretty flexible with what you put on your attacks and specials in this game

[last cape]

I can see that tbh

[stoic tinsel]

the important thing to force on room 1 is some kind of critical utility, like as noted, born gain

[magic moss]

the echoes + knowing how to weave in specials means wards shouldnt be an issue at all

[stoic tinsel]

blame strength being the meta ig

although even in max fear I imagine that gale blocks more damage than toula

[last cape]

I mean, before they even added strength, even when your only options were Frinos and Toula, no one was picking Toula lol

[stoic tinsel]

why the hell does toula need you to step on her to do a thing that does a pittance of damage

they gotta rework her for sure

[bleak night]

Guy in Steam Forums is saying Gorgon Amulet, Lion Fang, Silver Wheel and White Antler are useless

[round quartz]

Oh dear

[stoic tinsel]

oh my

[bleak night]

Silver Wheel keeping the +100mp when you remove has made it part of my rotation when playing Torches so I don't need to waste money or 3 room rewards on Tonicks

[stoic tinsel]

they should also probably change what fig leaf does. it's so bad lmao

[round quartz]

When do you usually take silver wheel? What region

[bleak night]

Fig Leaf was broken last patch, they probs don't want a repeat

[stoic tinsel]

oh, fair enough

silver wheel is pretty poggers on the really magick hungry builds yes

[bleak night]

When playing Mel and Moros Torches, you typically want Fine Line and Born Gain, but Fine Line will just prime you out completely relatively fast if your MP pool is too shallow. Usually recommended to have around 200 before you get Fine Line

I run Wheel usually by Olympus in my surface runs when I want to fish for Fine Line already or I get it by late Thessaly

[round quartz]

Mhm, but when do you fit it into
Depends on situation but do you want to 3rd region or take it 2nd

[stoic tinsel]

what if hera pushes fine line on you asap

[round quartz]

Ah I see

[bleak night]

If you have really early Fine Line, going Wheel 2nd isn't a bad shout at all

[round quartz]

Yeah

[bleak night]

Issue is that you must conserve MP a fair bit in Fields and Thessaly because they're multiple fights in one location, so Born Gain doesn't reset as fast

Alternatively you can run Mortal Gain and just stack HP ig?

[round quartz]

Fine line on torches is extremely fun

[stoic tinsel]

probably pom up born gain over fine line in those positions

[bleak night]

But like you still want a good MP pool regardless so lol

[stoic tinsel]

while sorting out the mp problem

[round quartz]

I don't like mortal gain because I like taking antler last region

[bleak night]

Fine Line on Torches is just super potent is all. Even a common lvl1 Fine Line is enough for Chronos/Typhon

[stoic tinsel]

I currently lack the balls to take antler

[round quartz]

And it basically allows only 1 instance of 100+ magick

[bleak night]

Same lol, less of a bullet hell to deal with if the boss just has no time to set it up

[round quartz]

Mhm

[bleak night]

All my runs are just Antler at the end, yeah

[stoic tinsel]

does crit even apply on effect damage?

[bleak night]

Yep, antler crit is global

It works on Blitz, Waves, literally everything

[stoic tinsel]

that's schnasty

yeah no need to play region 4 if you just kill them huh

[bleak night]

If you have Grievous Blow with Antler, you have a chance to do 6x damage since they stack

[round quartz]

Average twins fight last about 3 seconds lmao

[stoic tinsel]

yeah you just need to fade all the bs that typhon sprays at you

[bleak night]

Ngl I don't really recommend Antler unless you have 2 of Snow Queen, Mint Condition and Trusty Shield. 1 can suffice though for sure, but you want some extra insurance.

[stoic tinsel]

so be very very good at picking boons, got it

[round quartz]

Honestly I just try to trust myself that my lovers and gale is enough
Though it's scary if I don't have any defensive things like that
But I usually do have something anyways

[magic moss]

this is also assuming you are cracked at the game already fair warning

warning, you are not myntkaramell, do not run antler unless you have all 3

[stoic tinsel]

I should probably spend some time leveling up my good keepsakes huh

I'm really just farming lotuses right now anyway

[magic moss]

or you have all of surface attack patterns down to a t

[round quartz]

Knuckle bones is a pretty good defensive alternative as well against Typhon

[bleak night]

tf lol

[stoic tinsel]

I mean what casual player doesn't take knuckle bones to region 4

[spare kite]

Non strength players

[stoic tinsel]

ah they take tooth

[spare kite]

Or pin, or athena for dd refresh

[bleak night]

I get thinking antler is bad, but why Gorgon Amulet tf

what am I reading on Steam HAHAHA

[spare kite]

What are you looking at lmfao

[round quartz]

It would be so fun if antler was multi region
It would be too busted but just a full run with white antler seems awesome

[spare kite]

Old antler

[bleak night]

old Antler was multi-region

it activated off a different method though, but you can take it from start to finish

[round quartz]

Amazing

[spare kite]

(old antler lasted the entire run and instead of capping your hp just needed you to be at 30 or lwoer)

[round quartz]

Oh I see

[spare kite]

This caused people to create save files without the centaur arcana lmfao

[bleak night]

I still have that save from Tranurz

[round quartz]

Lmao

[spare kite]

So you can turn off the Prometheus card and start at 30 hp

[round quartz]

Mhm yeah

[spare kite]

Then you prayed to not get any extra hp

[round quartz]

Running into ash :(

[bleak night]

I think they'd probably just not get that incantation

[round quartz]

That's also true

[bleak night]

knowing the types of saves people have just for speedrunning

I don't really speedrun myself, so I'm not entirely sure.

[spare kite]

Nowadays is being degen with BBB lol

[bleak night]

That's true

[spare kite]

@hollow mauve use omega special then hold attack is moros

[hexed field]

nah you'll be find just don't get hit

[spare kite]

Don't bother much with like, trying to set ghosts down then detonate

[hollow mauve]

Ive tried, it doesnt work well

[spare kite]

are you at melee range

[hexed field]

alright fellas what do we think of aspect of circe with mirrored and wicked thrashers, heroic nova strike, cardio gain and static shock, exceptional talent, epic righteous pike, sunny disposition and cinerary circle

I think I also had power surge and flash fry too

[uneven palm]

sounds like things died

[hexed field]

things did die

literally the only things that kept it from being a perfect run were no extra channel speed and I had 7/8 to activate tall order

[hollow mauve]

Im using it as if it were close range

Which may be the issue, im also holding attack then using the special

[spare kite]

Yeah you want tl cast the omega special first

[uneven palm]

reverse it. Omega special, then hold attack

the orbiting specials will blow the ghosties mostly automatically

[stoic tinsel]

what's a BBB

[spare kite]

Boon boon boon, pick between 3 booms from last run, echo

The salute the oath rng incantation doesn't clear the last night boons

So you can set up stuff like, apollo legendary/heph legendary/heroic success rate as your only boons

[stoic tinsel]

useful but that's not a thing on the surface

okay that's pretty gross

which coat do you folks like? it seems to me like all three go to the same end build, they just have some minor perks

[spare kite]

Selene

[stoic tinsel]

skyfall is pretty good huh

good for not dying in region 1

which between hestia and poseidon is better?

[round quartz]

For coat?

[stoic tinsel]

mm

[round quartz]

Poseidon

[stoic tinsel]

been doing the same yeah

yikes I tried putting poseidon on coat's attack first

it can work but it's a lot harder, not something I got right the first time

[spare kite]

You want exhaust riser pretty much for that

[stoic tinsel]

what's an exhaust riser

[spare kite]

+3 dash strike hits, hammer

[stoic tinsel]

ah, that's pretty good yeah

for now this next seed is all about the special, so I can do that

hera or aphro, intriguing choice

hera's almost never wrong but I wonder if there's a case for aphro

[night lagoon]

Aphro on coat works if you get the hammer that makes specials fire when you hit an enemy with your attacks, or when you block with your Omega attack

[plush beacon]

I figured this channel was better discussion for High Fear reccs than #h2-discussion , what are people’s recommended Oath layout for 32? It’s the last statue I need and I’m cleaning the remaining 20/24 runs in the testament

[last cape]

It depends a little on whether you're trying to clear the surface or the underworld

The main difference being, the underworld is easy to keep under a 5 minute timer with a little practice, but the surface definitely is not lol

I think you want to turn on the 40% speed no matter what though

[plush beacon]

Definitely going to need to practice 40% speed at lower fear

[civic ocean]

Well it will feel like lower fear because its worth 6

[plush beacon]

If it’s the same as Hades 1 the increased speed will eventually become second nature, and the increased spawn speed helps with timer

[last cape]

oh, another thing is, denial is much easier to deal with on the surface since Ephyra gives you a strong start

[last cape]

In that sense it is. Maybe even moreso, I never got used to 40% speed in hades 1

I'm not as good at hades 1 in general come to think of it lol

[civic ocean]

Underworld I usually go like…

Return 2
Frenzy 2
Scars 3
Time 3
Denial
Wandering 2
Hubris 2
Shadow

Surface I drop Scars and Time to 2 and take other stuff

Usually Forfeit

[plush beacon]

Yeah I was trying to remember the onion name (Denial) I’m guessing on surface you want to have your build pretty much set by the end of Ephyra minus a couple nice additions like Extended Fam etc.

[civic ocean]

Onion is Forfeit

[magic moss]

dont do scars 3 for a 32

[civic ocean]

Scars 3 underworld is free half the stuff in the store heals you anways

[last cape]

For surface I run pain 1 wards 1 Frenzy 2 menace 2 return 2 fangs 2 scars 2 shadow forfeit time 2 hubris 2 denial

[civic ocean]

Oh yeah I guess I run fangs as well ye

[last cape]

But I agree scars 3 for 32 is a huge mistake

[civic ocean]

Damn I have made like 80 huge mistakes then lmao

[last cape]

apparently so

[plush beacon]

Oh Denial is lock out the 2 boons you don’t choose, that one is honestly fun to play around for me even on low heat for both runs, though you do end up eating more rolls when you get like Zeus Spec, Divine Vengeance, and Double Strike

[civic ocean]

Eros and Charity bottle just heal you anyways open a pool shop

[magic moss]

scars 3 and hordes should be the last things you are enabling for fear

[last cape]

^

[civic ocean]

Nah scars 3 underworld is extremely free to me

[plush beacon]

Different playstyles different options

[civic ocean]

Regularly heal somewhere in the area of 150+ on Momus staff on scars 3

[last cape]

No it's pretty objectively correct to not take scars 3 actually lol. If you're not getting hit, hey, free fear, and if you're finding eros bottles then you can play around it but healing with strength is one of the strongest things you can do right now

Turning that off is removing an incredible option

[civic ocean]

How is it pretty objectively correct lol

[plush beacon]

My 20 Fear so far has been;
2 Wards, 2 Menace, 2 Fangs, 2 Debt, Shadow, 2 Time, 1 Hubris, Denial

[last cape]

It's even worse on the surface since you don't get things like eros bottle btw

[civic ocean]

Yes you should not run it on surface obviously

[last cape]

but even in the underworld, idk why you would do that when there are better ways to get 2 fear

[civic ocean]

Better ways such as?

[last cape]

well for 32 fear underworld I run the same things as this build but with time 3 instead of forfeit

[plush beacon]

For some reason I have not been able to figure out Momus, I’ve done a fun 16 Fear with Mel + Controlled Burn and Ares Duo, but Momus I think the best run I had with Momus was an Omega Cast build

[last cape]

(though I don't play the underworld that much anymore now that the surface has 4 regions)

[civic ocean]

So you take 25% healing in exchange for everything taking one extra hit to kill and dealing 20% more damage and you believe that is objectively better

[last cape]

I'm taking 50% healing actually, the last rank of scars is 50%

[civic ocean]

I cut it to 25% because roughly half of the sources of healing in the underworld don’t care abiut scars

[last cape]

and yeah, wards is really not a big deal at 1 rank, though this depends a little on the weapon. And healing is way stronger than receiving 20% more damage, you effectively have a lot more health to play with

[last cape]

That's bull lol. No wayward son alone cuts your healing massively, the chance of getting lucky and finding eros bottle is not comparable

To say nothing of no wells or food in charon shops for example

[civic ocean]

Here are sources of survivability in the underworld not affected by scars:

-all heph boons
Centaur hearts
Arachne’s dress
Breath of eros
Charity bottle
Self healing
Plentiful forage
Vampiric Cataclysm
Engraved Pin

[last cape]

Some of these are pretty major stretches, but I will say that pin and forage do help a lot. Pin, however, is mutually exclusive with strength which has a few implications

[civic ocean]

Oh and the ashes of course

[last cape]

Being forced to hunt for things like forage is also a downside in and of itself

[uneven palm]

Like gotta say at 32 you don't need healing but shuffling 2 fear for Scars 3->2 to just stay topped up very easily is nice

[last cape]

Yeah it's like

[civic ocean]

You don’t have to hunt for forage either

[uneven palm]

Chill erebus with Wayward keeping you full

[last cape]

You can totally do it, but you remove so many healing options for 2 fear that you have to question if it's worth it

[civic ocean]

Most of the effective healing you will get in a run if you don’t run wayward which is a first for me to read someone doing at 32 just works through scars

[last cape]

I suppose that's subjective but secretly I don't think it's very subjective, there's a lot of free-ish fear you can pick up

[civic ocean]

Like its a very easy problem to solve

[signal coral]

I probably would not recommend no healing for 32 fear

but I think its probably something you really need to learn for anything higher

[plush beacon]

Is forage a genuinely good boon to take on 32? I feel like I’ve used Dem boons way less in Warsong

[civic ocean]

Whereas I feel pretty strongly that many 32s that take time 3 can die to it often in erebus and taking wards makes that more likely

[signal coral]

i can do 32 fear pretty reliably and I still take a ton of damage
you can kind of just facetank things at some points

[last cape]

Yeah it got buffed massively

You get % healing per collectible you pick up and it's a big number

[plush beacon]

Oh damn I didn’t notice

[civic ocean]

Its an okay boon you take it if you don’t need freeze

[plush beacon]

I thought it was still a number that you healed by, not %

[last cape]

When you throw strength on top of that, you effectively get twice the effective HP from it too due to the damage reduction

[signal coral]

i just pick dem when she shows up because her cast is broken, then she is in my god pool and might as well take anything else useful that shows up from her

[pseudo sequoia]

(it's also not affected by scars but you didn't hear it from me 🤫)

[last cape]

Yeah this is also insane

[civic ocean]

You get even more HP if you throw death on it

[last cape]

Ehh

[plush beacon]

Her, Apollo, Zeus, and Hestia are my go to Cast boons

[last cape]

Death and strength are pretty comparable in how much HP they give you

They have their advantages and disadvantages, really

[plush beacon]

Also I know we’ve been mainly discussing Oath and Boons, but thoughts on Strength vs Death

[last cape]

it's actually quite well balanced rn imo

[signal coral]

im fine running 50% healing at 32 fear, but I think 0% healing is not something I would recommend for most players just trying to do 32
if you have a goal of pushing higher than 32 then I think learning 0% healing is good, but its not needed before then imo

[last cape]

The fact you can't take pin with death means you have legitimate reasons to run death now, but usually I still prefer strength

[pseudo sequoia]

they're well balanced enough i think but i'll always pick strength

[plush beacon]

I’ve died to gramps bc of an hourglass trapping me when he does his one hit move, but otherwise the added value of max health on strength is insane

[last cape]

Strength gives you a stronger start thanks to the always on damage which is pretty big

[signal coral]

the issue is that biome 1 feels terrible to me now without strength

[civic ocean]

If you struggle to clear biome 1 in time or use a lot of non-weapon damage sources take strength, if not take death. By biome 4 25% additive damage is tiny and Death gives you about 20% more max hp with even more if you refill the DDs

[signal coral]

if strength didnt have the cheap early damage boost I think it would be a lot closer of a decision for me, but the fact that it gives comparable HP to death and also makes the first biome clear a lot easier makes strength just win out for me

[pseudo sequoia]

tbf biome 1 is pretty much scientifically engineered to feel terrible on high fear in general, i have the most fun when the run gets going between regions 2 and 4

strength kinda mitigated that but not by that much

[civic ocean]

I don’t think strength gives comparable hp to death tbh quite often (DD refills) it’s much much less

[signal coral]

strength has double healing instead of DD refills and I dont think scars 3 is a good idea before like 40+ fear

so it ends up being pretty comparable to me

[civic ocean]

Which is should be said are yet another form of survivability (echo’s fight fight fight as well) that don’t care about scars

[pseudo sequoia]

yeah actually now that you're pointing it out the underworld has so much more healing options, it's a little insane

[civic ocean]

I mean again no exaggeration I am approach triple digit 32 fear uworld clears with scars 3 on I am familiar with how plentiful (hah) the healing options are around it

[civic ocean]

Chaos max hp increases, hearts from narc, Dark making you immune to damage from Hades…

[pseudo sequoia]

it's like they don't even want you to die. no wonder 50 fear is so much easier down there

[civic ocean]

Well thats part of it

[plush beacon]

P sure that surface is supposed to intentionally be harder than underworld as well

[civic ocean]

The bigger maybe biggest problem is that the Olympus enemies were designed by some sort of sicko

[plush beacon]

Dragons, Spin Automatons, Shield Satyrs

So many enemies just waiting to chunk your HP

[civic ocean]

Even the little dudes that blow up are so annoying

[pseudo sequoia]

oh absolutely, i think that's also part of the reason why ephyra is frontloaded with a minimum of six major rewards

like yeah. you're gonna need to stock up on damage immediately here you go

[signal coral]

the main issue I have with surface is that so many enemies are ranged or have huge persistant aoe attacks

if you dont kill them immediately things get out of hand quickly

[civic ocean]

Unfortunately sometimes ephyra can also have double elite pickaxe dudes and then your 50 run is over unless you are already jacked

[plush beacon]

Related; do y’all feel that || Prometheus || or || Typhon || is a harder boss

[civic ocean]

The four sappers that prometheus summons is the hardest boss in the game

[pseudo sequoia]

ehhhh probably typhon but purely bc im an idiot and don't dodge things correctly

[civic ocean]

I think Typhon can be conditioned to predict the head smash with some consistency

[pseudo sequoia]

i've had an embarrassing amount of losses bc by the time i get there i'm already in the mindset of "oh i can just stay in his face and kill"

[signal coral]

it feels like typhon is easier to me, but this is partially because if my build is bad i just die before I get to typhon

so the majority of times I get there my damage is very good and the fight is fine

[civic ocean]

Everyone go watch the @uneven palm video on prom and you will do much better

[plush beacon]

I still haven’t learned the dodge timing on Eris’s artillery or Typhon’s chin

[spare kite]

Prom

[plush beacon]

I try and iframe both and consistently fail

[signal coral]

okay it was explained to me that as soon as you see his horns flash, you dash straight backwards

and that helped a lot for me

[plush beacon]

I’ll definitely keep that in mind for my next surface run

[civic ocean]

It’s pretty hard to iframe because it lingers right

You actually have to get out of the hitbox

[signal coral]

yeah i kept getting hit with it and someone told me that its a lot easier to dodge if you dash straight backwards instead of trying to iframe it by dashing forwards or sideways

[spare kite]

I still dash to the side or towards it

[civic ocean]

Also if you dodge towards him when he shoots his bouncy balls at you he is likely to then chin you

So you can loop him a bit

[last cape]

Yeah you can i frame through the chin attack and being close to him baits him to use it more

When I realized that the prometheus fight became a lot harder for me compared to typhon

[spare kite]

If the goal is 32 you can still kinda just ignore prom's patterns I feel like

[civic ocean]

He’s a lot easier for me now that I know more of how to avoid him but yeah for 32s you can just race him and Typhon tbh esp if you have divine dash

I found the timing of dash attack on the blades worked really well at ddashing all of typhons moves

[signal coral]

i feel like i mostly just facetank both him and typhon a lot

[civic ocean]

Well I mean they are hard bosses

[signal coral]

like I roughly know his combos and how to dodge but i mostly just maximize dps and if i fail to dodge then whatever

they will probably die before it matters

[last cape]

btw not that I really think it matters by the time you're turning on scars 3 but does scars 3 stop blood spree from working?

[civic ocean]

Yes

Blood spree does not work with scars 3

Blood spree is a tough take in general with how crazy the rest of Ares’ boons are but yeah no good if you take scars 3

[signal coral]

also i want to say that i may be stupid but i find that i take a million damage every run to tail of typhon

in my head this just means im bad because all its moves are so telegraphed...

[civic ocean]

It sounds like you’re just not really engaging with the movesets of the enemies in b3 and b4 surface tbh lmao

[signal coral]

yeah for the most part I just have a good enough build and then face tank and kill before I take too much damage

for tail I usually just buy the heal in the shop after and I'm fine

its also partially timer pressure in those zones

the surface timer feels a lot harder to me and at some points I find that its just better for me to kill fast

[timber pawn]

The tail is hard to kill fast and also safely, unless your build just completely stomps by then which is tough at 32

[civic ocean]

And if you take shadow you gotta move a lot too

Otherwise you get hit by homing beams that blend into the ground

[uneven palm]

Those shadow shooty sneks are my nightmare

[void idol]

what is the absolute best aspect to go with ares

like for aphro it's probably mel or thanatos axe

for Poseidon it's aspect of pan on the daggers

[nova dune]

I don't think it's the best, but Mel axe with Ares is really fun, you hit hard and fast

[void idol]

hmm

[untold zodiac]

it's Mel axe
because it's on the promotial material
and also because it allows for more missing HP (damage bonus from Mutual Destruction)

[void idol]

so with like hell splitter and the hammer that makes the final hit strike twice and cost 20 mana?

[hexed field]

can bridal glow hit steady growth? that'd be pretty funny

[void idol]

yes and steady growth can hit itself

very funny when it happens

[hexed field]

I've had it hit itself but never seen bridal hit steady

[loud moat]

Can it though? I dont think Bridal glow can hit anything that cant be pommed

It makes it heroic and poms

[stoic tinsel]

yeah at 32 heat you can still duck almost all the vows related to your durability and build strength, and mel can take a ton of hits

[wooden sleet]

I know this is prob answered often but what am I going for with the Charon axe build?

[void idol]

also how do I use the axe properly so that i don't take a lot of damage

i

[stoic tinsel]

as long as you're not totally punting into certain patterns or double tags, and know your builds, you can mostly play it without big adjustments

[void idol]

apollo for prominence flare or Poseidon for geyser spout, hera special and born gain

im so used to the axe block and it's very hard to use it without it

[spare kite]

You don't want prominence flare

[full cloak]

Lucid Gain. Any high % special. A good cast

[spare kite]

It locks you of throwing more casts till is gone

[stoic tinsel]

I do not understand the point of aspect of charon

special's already snail slow and omega casting seems about as fast as popping the cast

[spare kite]

Now that channel speed works properly with O.special that's a non issue

[full cloak]

Charon is very good, currently top 3 or top 5 aspects in the game

[hexed field]

to be honest I do not understand the point of omega casting

[stoic tinsel]

oh there was a bug?

[sage flame]

damage

[full cloak]

Just throw down your cast, do omega special, do massive damage

[spare kite]

For ages yeah

[full cloak]

Rinse and repeat. You win

[spare kite]

Was fixed in patch 8

[hexed field]

yeah but pretty low potential compared to dropping your cast for crowd control and origination then just using attacks and specials

[last cape]

It was quite a big buff to charon, now that it benefits from sorceress it feels a lot smoother

[hexed field]

idk that's my experience

[stoic tinsel]

so how does it work

[sage flame]

I mean you can do both tho

[last cape]

Charon is also an aspect that I find really benefits from m&k

[sage flame]

not like omega cast makes your cast not do cast things

[stoic tinsel]

throw out O special, clear the whole room?

[last cape]

So you can dash away while charging your Omega special in the other direction

[spare kite]

You still can do that on controller

[stoic tinsel]

oh that's neat

[spare kite]

You need to aim fast tho

[last cape]

It's a lot smoother on the m&k I find

[loud moat]

its a trap and free damage. Certain aspects work well like Circe or Momus to activate your ability quickly. The death card (15% crit on alternate omegas) omega cast can also be a great way to get the crit cycle started, especially with Winners circle speeding up Omega cast charge speed

[spare kite]

Ye ye that's what I mean

[last cape]

I really wish Hades 2 gave the player the option for right stick aiming

[spare kite]

Do joycon + mouse like mynt lol

[full cloak]

😭

[stoic tinsel]

what is this sorcery

[spare kite]

Exactly what it sounds like

[last cape]

Since you mostly play with face buttons you would need to claw grip but that's a lot better than not being able to do the same kind of inputs at all

[stoic tinsel]

left hand controller right hand mouse?

[last cape]

I hate that that's probably optimal lmao

[spare kite]

Yeah

Actually @bleak night do you still do joycon mouse nowadays or nah

[stoic tinsel]

wait that kinda works. you're gonna need some extra mouse buttons for uhhh

selene, right

and the bloody interact button

you could bind something to the select button ig

[bleak night]

Sometimes

I do it for mostly meme runs, when I want to focus I just go full controller now, I perform better, save on Torches

[formal pulsar]

I tried m&k after only playing with a controller but it is kinda hard to get used to looking at the mouse location for your attack targeting when that’s something you just never had to consider before. It is something you can get used to but it is so incredibly annoying at the start

[void idol]

i don't understand how people can play with a controller, it's so hard to dodge hits and attack exactly what you want to without using autofire

[spare kite]

Is it

[void idol]

idk maybe it's just me

on an unrelated note, how much health does typhon have left after zeus does his thing

[spare kite]

40k iirc?

25k after 2nd round of eggs

[last cape]

I've been forcing myself to learn m&k because I like certain things being options like firing missiles while kiting enemies on the coat

Or lightning lance feels a lot better

[void idol]

he has 40k left??

[spare kite]

He has 65k total

First round of eggs is at 12.5k dmg taken

[formal pulsar]

Aiming boons are better on m&k but everything else is better on the controller imo

[void idol]

hot take: lightning lance and all the other aim cast boons never feel good

[spare kite]

Glowing coal is cool now thanks to 4th degree

[spare kite]

#h2-discussion message typhon hp thresholds

[last cape]

Lance is decent for builds that actually benefit from a ranged cast I feel

But I'm not much of a glowing coal believer, mostly because I've never actually gotten the ares duo

[uneven palm]

Charon is insanely strong. Here's how to build it and use it #h2-builds-and-combat message

[void idol]

but howling soul is the worst

[uneven palm]

I can dig up a video of it in in action if you want

[last cape]

It's kind of funny that it sticks to teleporting enemies

[spare kite]

It used to be fun when grandpa was trapped by cast

Cuz it completely crippled his dash

[last cape]

Especially given the region it's in, which has a ton of them including the boss

[void idol]

yeah, especially chronos

[spare kite]

Nowadays I just take unseen ire if I see dad

[void idol]

or the dd strength one if you're doing a 40 f run and not taking strength

[uneven palm]

5s invulnerable is "we have Engraved Pin at home" for that last phase

[spare kite]

Is currently lasting more than 5s lol

[stoic tinsel]

Ah make very big number, I see

I see the scaling, but how do you clear mobs

[uneven palm]

Uhh easier to just watch it in action. It's huge damage and AOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQAMzuHq4qw

you clear mobs by hitting them and they die 🙂

[stoic tinsel]

Oh the omega cast is applied to every hit of the omega special?

[uneven palm]

For real? noice

[uneven palm]

Yes, you get free O cast blasts by hitting a regular cast with the O special

hence, things evaporate

[stoic tinsel]

Ah now I get it

Hold special whole room dies

What's the solution to wards?

[uneven palm]

Don't take Wards

[stoic tinsel]

Lmao

[uneven palm]

Or get a cast with ward clear

[void idol]

that's the strategy for a lot of weapons

[void idol]

storm ring >>

[uneven palm]

For Charon, Dem, Aphro, Hestia would be better than Storm Ring

[stoic tinsel]

Yeah but you gotta take this to F50 eventually right

[uneven palm]

You just need another rotation, or Hitch on cast/special can help

[stoic tinsel]

Hitch good

[uneven palm]

but like don't take wards until like 45F

This is last patch but this is what 50F looks like with it. Basically the same but slower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5G-GWdIhLo

[stoic tinsel]

This runner declined medea?

Oh there we go

[uneven palm]

I sometimes save her for a little later so she eats a room with more baddies

I think I was also checking if the hammer was good before continuing

[odd ruin]

man I wish ares had more ways of inflicting wounds rather than just the attack and special boon

[civic ocean]

Engagement and Arctic Ring are how most builds tend to deal with wards

[formal pulsar]

Arctic gale also is pretty good in that

[civic ocean]

Does this work like how I think it does? I have always wondered if you should take Medea first or last

[formal pulsar]

It makes any cast good at clearing wards and if the other cast has a curse, you have full origination on Charon

[civic ocean]

Origination on Charon sounds like beeg overkill but maybe you don’t always get Geyser on it anymore so I could be wrong

I like Swords on Charon personally so I don’t usually take it

[formal pulsar]

What else are you spending your grasp on the surface? Aritificer is not really amazing on the surface neither is night on Charon

[civic ocean]

Normally I play Charon in the underworld but I think I would go with either Excellence or Unseen or Eternity + Artificer dropping a 1 cost depending on circumstances and what I want to take

Surface I think I would lean towards Eternity for some safety but maybe Origination is just good on Surface because you can pre plan boons and going for my usual charon build is harder

I generally tend to favour Origination a lot more on surface but I need to test it more

[uneven palm]

I can't say with absolute certainty but it feels like later rooms even the "fast" combat rooms will end up with multiple waves where normally they have 1, so yeah I think late Medea can save some time. Unless I want her magick I might save her for last or just before the midboss if I want her to melt half their armor

Orig is like one of your rare sources of scaling on Charon and you can get it online with random nonsense core boons, so I'd favor it. Otherwise you're fishing for specific non-cores (Local Climate, Geyser Spout) to scale up, which doesn't always work out.

[formal pulsar]

I do think you need origination on high fear for the surface. Prometheus has the same health as chronos and typhon has double that. Enemies and bosses have high base hp (and even higher with grit) so I do find that I need it the extra damage. And lucid gain Charon makes unseen a good safety in case you run out of magick but unnecessary and excellence can be detrimental if you have hubris and you might risk priming out. I do agree that eternity might be good for safety but it is annoying that it doesn’t work on guardian and just overall the extra damage might add more to safety. But I can the value of each of these options

[uneven palm]

Eternity works on Guardians

I think people mixed up “casts no longer slow down guardians” with “all slowdown effects don’t work” which isn’t true.

[kindred sonnet]

honestly I don't understand the change to make healthbar enemies unaffected by casts

[uneven palm]

I also think that’s not my favorite change. It’s like such a core mechanic in other combat

[kindred sonnet]

yea exactly, so unless you have a damaging/origination cast that aspect of combat is completely removed for bosses, makes no sense to me

[uneven palm]

Also it’s so punishing for like Momus or Persephone that live by casts

“Aaand Eris is gone”

I’ve been meaning to feedback this thanks for the nudge

[kindred sonnet]

eris feels so annoying to fight on momus because she never stays in the follow up omegas

tbf it's not completely because of the cast change since she teleports around a fair bit but it certainly doesn't help

[willow phoenix]

I mean eris has never been bound by cast though? The change was pretty much only for Poly and Chronos

and tbf Poly and Chronos both got clowned by cast so it was a fair buff to them imo

[uneven palm]

It was inconsistent, yeah. Eris and Prometheus and Jetty would basically ignore it but you could pin Poly, rampaging Cerb, and Chronos

[civic ocean]

Something to think about with Origination is that it is additive and not multiplicative, so as you get to the point in the run where you are staring down Prometheus and Typhon, Origination (or Strength for that matter) represent a relatively low overall damage increase

That being said I think so many of the other Arcanas are kind of dogwatee on surface so Origination just kind of wins by default unless you are playing 7 minute timer, then you take ephyra side rooms and you feel way better about Artificer

My priors right now are that Strength pairs well with Excellence (excellence is normally offering things like speed increases and flat damage/power increases which work well with Strength’s global 25% that never turns off) and that Origination works well with Death

[void idol]

if you purge heavy metal (the heph boons that gives armor and prevents knockback) while still having some armor, is the armor lost

[glossy forge]

Yes the armor is lost in that case.

[civic ocean]

I wonder if the game remembers what armor was from Heavy Metal

Like lets say I take Heavy Metal in Erebus, then get offered an arachne dress, take silken sash, trusty shield, etc. and take Heavy Metal’s total armor worth of damage over the run

And then I purge it. Do I lose that armor again?

[stable herald]

Would you even lose the armor if you purged Heavy Metal in the first place? Or would it just remove the no knockback effect?

[surreal hazel]

just the knockback effect

[civic ocean]

Someone just did it an it purged the armor

[mint nexus]

Born Gain, Fine Line, and Righteous Pike on Torches
Should I get Dividing Spark or Sustained Spark?

Attacks split in 2 or move and fire 20% faster while attacking?

[civic ocean]

Since fine line and pike trigger more with faster attack speed sustained seems good

[spare kite]

Sustained

[odd ruin]

question, where in the que do the keepsakes that give extra lives go?

[spare kite]

Tooth always goes last

[odd ruin]

what about the pin?

[spare kite]

First

Stalwart is lost last iirc too

[odd ruin]

oof, if you don't complete the encounter does it just take away another life or does it just end the run?

[spare kite]

It takes the dd that you would have normally lost without pin

[odd ruin]

so if you have 3 it would just take 1 away if not completed?

[spare kite]

Yeah

[odd ruin]

thats not terrible

[spare kite]

Is pretty good yeah

Can also use it as "10s of impervious to deal dmg" on bosses

[civic ocean]

Pin is still top 5 keepsakes imo

When people stop being so strengthpilled it will pick up again

[twin bolt]

what are the chances that i would get legendary on 4th boon

[willow phoenix]

All legendary have like 3 prereqs outside of hermes no? So you have to get 4 of the same god in a row and draw legendary on the first try, so pretty low lol

If you count Hermes you can get it in like 2 boons I guess lol. I think I got Hermes legendary in Ephyra once when Hermes first boon was still bugged

[twin bolt]

then i had crazy rng with ares legendary

[civic ocean]

It’s like 10% three times if you’re eligible

So like a 27% if you are eligible?

pretty lucky

[signal coral]

can you get chaos legendary first boon? :^)

start chaos keepsake, find a chaos gate before the first god boon
and then happen to rng into his legendary?

[spare kite]

Iirc yeah

[neon crown]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1340423316342571011/1349496669716217949/Screenshot_2025-03-12_at_5.37.32_PM.png?ex=67d35036&is=67d1feb6&hm=f6a2da3da703acc27ee4777810ec36ae1e0fe9bf9d671a513fe0af9ad2d20b88& 20f underworld with than axe. any thoughts?

[hollow briar]

I’d turn on Menace before Return, but that’s also just preference

[neon crown]

just reaized i had time 2 not 3

[hollow briar]

Oh, so true

[neon crown]

what do i take off

[hollow briar]

Is this just for practice with specific Vows or

[neon crown]

its the next one for bounty but the bounty is technically for typhon

going down and that makes a big diff i feel like since surface i havent even really touched past 10 heat

[fair horizon]

I would do a mix of scars/pain instead of shadow

[hollow briar]

Yeah, Surface can be rough for sure. I’d recommend staying at Time 2 tho

[neon crown]

im consistent sub 20 min for underworld which is where im going for next run

[fair horizon]

If your play is strong, time3 instead with fangs1 (instead of fangs2)

[neon crown]

yeah i missed i had time2 not time3 for ss

turned it on and removing shadow and one level of return

feel like i wanna get used to fangs sooner rather than later

[hollow briar]

Yeah, it’s a hurdle for sure, but one that’ll need to get jumped

[uneven palm]

Denial is low-hanging fruit too

[hollow briar]

Return can also just suck in Surface for Thessaly in particular

[uneven palm]

Like it sucks but it’s manageable

[neon crown]

denial is kinda scary since i dont wanna lose out on a boon since i had to pick between 2 i really need

[hollow briar]

Also Debt (and, by extension, Forfeit) is pretty free since you can just get every Boon in the game anyway lol

[spare kite]

Use your rolls

[neon crown]

it leaves more in the hands of RNGesus than i like but i can reroll ig

[inland bobcat]

I reached Typhon and lost does that still unlock Ares?

[neon crown]

yes

they should be the very first boon you get on your next run

[inland bobcat]

Any good builds with Ares I heard he enables some wacky stuff

[neon crown]

whats your favorite weapon/aspect?

[inland bobcat]

Moros torch

[neon crown]

im not too familiar with torch tbh

[inland bobcat]

I’m willing to try new stuff bc I feel like I’m spamming Moros lol

[neon crown]

his core boons are great with the axe, and im betting are good elsewhere too, and the blood drops are always good

[spare kite]

His attack is great to enable two of his passives

(also zeus duo)

[sage flame]

I've been trying to set up for heinous affront for any fear and I haven't gotten the rng yet (partially cause I've been starting droplet) but im wondering if I should start Zeus or ares, rng into hera and the other zeus/ares

and of course light smite is needed here too

the clear speed is crazy but the rng setup is tough to get before like fields

[civic ocean]

I ran it up to 50 surface:

start ares

If you are down with resets and you don’t see zeus go immediately to an easy room and roll until you see them

Put Apollo on for thessaly if you don’t see him

You can take Storm Ring or Thunder Rush or even Ionic Gain for the duo because as soon as you get Light Smite and the duo you will immediately trigger origination on hit

[sage flame]

my keepsakes are kinda tied up with leaf oceanus and maybe athena or something else fields and antler tart unfortunately

but god start is what I assume would have to be the play for sure

and this would be for moros torches which i didn't specify either

I'd def be resetting by oceanus if I didn't see ares zeus hera apollo

triple boon duos tough

I guess I could leaf fields ig but skipping even in oceanus is good

[civic ocean]

Its hard to do on Moros

But the payoff is nice

I like it on blades you can use the special and trigger light smite like 11 times

[sage flame]

yeah need fast boss clears too still

[civic ocean]

It’s a big nuke on bosses too but yeah

Especially bosses that summon mobs near them like chronos

[sage flame]

yeah but like 30 second chronos tho

and it's not like im really that good, my pb is only 7:23 with traditional moros strats but I imagine if you can get the duo early you can clear rooms so fast and then you still hopefully get at least fine line

preferably with pike and cut above and such

[fallow cobalt]

Glorious disaster build except I don't take Winner's Circle or use Charon cleavecast in order to make it last as long and get as large as possible

Absolute cinema

[civic ocean]

Unironically I think GD could be pretty good with Persephone but I need to test what things buff it and what don’t

Charon with Super Nova and regular omega casting sounds pretty fun though

[fallow cobalt]

Max out on supernova for the world's largest prominence flare

[civic ocean]

Doesn’t work with winner circle sadly

But you can just not take it and have the slowest fireworks display ever

[inland pumice]

Anyone have tips for using the staff omega attack? I find it awkward to use in that it fires behind you, I always feel like I’m placing it wrong and sometimes have a hard time hitting enemies with it because the windup feels slow

Especially in higher fear, where I’m trying to get used to enemies that are 40% faster, I often get hit trying to charge and use my omega attack

[civic ocean]

Range is really really long so keeping that space is important

[civic ocean]

I can link you my video of my 50 run hang on

https://youtu.be/rJE3ld6BSXA?si=KarBXuTHfmFpP9Xr

I guess the main takeway from that run is you can dash while channeling it

[uneven palm]

I find it awkward to aim on controller. Best thing to do IMO is mostly do dash-strike into it up close so it’s hard to miss.

[inland pumice]

Interesting, I got one person telling me to keep ranged and one person telling me to dash up close, guess it’s just different play styles

I guess also depends on which aspect you use? I was trying out the one that fires your omega moves three times in a row

[uneven palm]

Like if you wanna compare I did a 50f with Momus this morning that had a bunch of O attacks. You have just enough time with hitstun from a dash-strike to squeeze it off (with maxed Frenzy, it’s safer on slower speeds) https://youtu.be/te4NgX7lmEA?si=MhB_z_5goMJjfZ_Y

Kinda a combination of you need to be pretty aggressive and also I suck at aiming the O attacks so up close makes it easier

[civic ocean]

Honestly the best advice I think is remember you can dash while doing it

[spare kite]

Prob just me being wrong but wouldn't this be damageless? Cuz you can use barrier boons/gale/lovers I assume

[magic moss]

true

changed

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1349545913365823649/image.png?ex=67d37e13&is=67d22c93&hm=2ae6963d6071ed97dcfe19f4eec454b7c0b4259f8259c80a6e212073089c1eea& new 50F bounty board just for fun

[inland pumice]

Thanks for the tips guys, I’ll give it a try

For some reason I just haven’t really meshed really well with the staff, I think I need to spend more time with it

[bleak night]

Momus is great but you don't need to do the Omega spam hold tech on it, so it's less intensive

The echoing orb for Omegas does work

[inland pumice]

Omega spam hold tech? Sorry I’m not sure I understand

[bleak night]

Let me find a timestamp in my Circe video. Essentially, you hold down either Attack or Special, depending on the Omega you're trying to spam, and you just don't let that button go. Then you dash, it skips the attack animations and just goes into Omega instantly

[inland pumice]

Ah I get what you mean

[bleak night]

I use it a lot in my Prometheus fight at 22:55 I think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyWvaokzQSc

[inland pumice]

I think I have been doing that without realizing it was a thing, just to skip the startup

But yeah with momus you sort of pre-place your omega attacks and specials and then just spam normals for a bit right?

[bleak night]

yeah you don't need to do this on Momus

[uneven palm]

I didn’t even know this was a thing

Here I am mashing buttons

[bleak night]

not that important on Momus is all, but on Mel Staff it is for sure amazing

[uneven palm]

Yeah wow. I’m gonna give that a go. Like weed killer and fine line take the O attack to 45 magick so that might rule for Righteous Pike abuse

[atomic ibex]

Is sworn or flutter strike better on Mel Axe 32 surface? Do I want any specific duos?

[spare kite]

Just get dashing heave and a good attack

Origination ofc if using it, prob with artic ring ideally

[deep quarry]

does anyone have any tips on how to dash strike more efficiently using mel coat on mouse and keyboard? i just can't do it consistently and keep doing more normal attacks accidentally

[stoic tinsel]

Sworn gets origination up faster

[sage flame]

is it the case where you do a regular attack after the dash ends?

[silent crow]

start a sprint for a very small period of time after each dash/every other dash, this will make u do dash strikes 100% of the time

and dont mash the attack button you only need 1 press to do all 3 hits

[stoic tinsel]

hello I accidentally overprimed out of the O move I was building around

please roast me

[bleak night]

happened to me as well lol

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252732088378200146/1349614527683104788/HUH_WTF.mp4?ex=67d3bdfa&is=67d26c7a&hm=6bd4d3b85a945debeb0bfebb4be70fb5e99fb00069b7fd74241b1c87fbb4a6ad&

[knotty pollen]

What's a good attack boon for Thanatos Axe?

[bleak night]

Aphro/Hera/Apollo

[knotty pollen]

Gotcha, that's about what I thought

[analog ether]

Had a thought:

Ares Wounds adds 50 power to whatever move is used to apply Wounds to a target.

Whether it's a normal move or an omega move, doesn't matter, right?

So, how would that interact with the Apollo Legendary (duplicates your omega attack/special for increased magic cost)? Would both of them get the power boost, or just one of them?

My gut says just one, unfortunately.

[timid pier]

Just one since the first instance of the strike hitting applies the curse of Wounds

How does Ares Wounds interact with Aphro legendary?

[timid temple]

last time i asked that question the person who got glamour gain + nervous wreck said they didnt see wounds get inflicted

[weak wave]

Whats the most health ya'll have ever gotten in a run, ive just been testing around with life affri, uncanny fort, and water fitness and was able to get 815 but im curious if you just max out at 999 or if you can actually have over 1k health

[stoic tinsel]

there's a matchup I can't figure out for the life of me

it's Charon vs Shadow-Spillers + Wailers

they can zone me out of O-specials indefinitely

uhhh do I have to rebind dash to do the dash tech properly

[bleak night]

Yeah you might

[stoic tinsel]

great time to learn the game from scratch

I have bound dash to R1 and I have a problem where my finger just refuses to let go of R1

shadow spiller still destroying me

I could just use attacks since I'm boonless either way at this point, but that's so damn slow

ugh I'll try these binds with a weapon I'm more comfy with

this is working terribly

[void idol]

I've gotten to 962 before but i had to force like four chaos gates and reset for embryo to cooperate

you can probably go over 1000 but atp it's not worth it anymore

[void idol]

o special on momus isn't worth it unless you're using the one that gives a bigger blast radius

[stoic tinsel]

aaaaaaargh I keep freezing up in fights

rebinding dash is mega cursed

[inland pumice]

Too small/slow? that’s kinda what I noticed

[stoic tinsel]

OH FFS I do not need to be dealing with vacuums while I'm learning the video game

[inland pumice]

Is it possible to get a full on revenge build in this game? Only effects that trigger when you take damage? And then the duo boon that lets you get those effects without taking damage? Has anyone tried anything like this? Curious how effective it would be

[junior trail]

iirc someone made an afk revenge build vs. typhon vid with a thumbnail of mel sleeping with her axe

and yes with all of dmg reduction its possible

[surreal hazel]

Probably shouldn't do that, since there'll be nothing to add 30 power to so it'll be a waste of a wound

[surreal hazel]

Hilariously if you get the trifecta

Managed to get a variant that used king's ransom and success rate, 75% chance refire on divine vengeance can get very silly

[junior trail]

Heinous Affront works differently from H1’s Vengeful Mood. Instead of passively triggering revenge boons every x sec., applying Wounds activates revenge boons, making it a better fit for aggressive playstyle

[surreal hazel]

Crazy horde clearing potential

Or bloodspilling, since visceral impact counts

[stoic tinsel]

is it just me or is scylla too easy

hmmm, do I take grievous wounds rare, single elimination epic, or visceral impact common

I have all my core boons. if I take visceral impact I can take the ares-hera duo

[surreal hazel]

Depends on how easily you wound

[stoic tinsel]

my wound source is momus special

[surreal hazel]

Grievous wounds

[stoic tinsel]

pretty good

[bleak night]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJz_gsbRPkY

[stoic tinsel]

rapid thrasher, mirrored thrasher or vampiric cataclysm, interesting choice

I have level 3 sworn strike on my attack

and wicked thrasher already

mirrored thrasher is clearly juicy but magick is a bit tight

[surreal hazel]

Rapid is the same basic speed buff

50% faster means twice as fast

[stoic tinsel]

mhm

I have 163 magick with born gain, ig I can afford the magick

but do I need to

[surreal hazel]

Do it

Free hexes

[stoic tinsel]

I have been offered weed killer

fun

lmao I still don't have a hex, I'm in danger

[surreal hazel]

ehhh, probably fine

just there's various setups where chewing up mana is a very good thing indeed

[stoic tinsel]

I got caught in a time trap when chronos started his instant kill

I am very sad. oh well, I don't urgently need z-sand right now

[surreal hazel]

good old suckerpunch

[stoic tinsel]

so I'm guessing that skull builds are just make number big?

[surreal hazel]

Depends on which skull

[bleak night]

Which one

[stoic tinsel]

mel skull probably seems like number go big

as is medea

persephone might be the odd one

[surreal hazel]

persephone is more about omega special and cast damage

medea is about regular attack and special

mel is mostly regular attack

[stoic tinsel]

so indeed, it is make number big

[surreal hazel]

still big +% is what you want for a lot of it, but it does adjust the hammers you want

[cinder palm]

Chat is is worth it to take athena's DD even if you're running strength on 50 fears?

[stoic tinsel]

no that activelly reduces your EHP, I'm pretty sure

[cinder palm]

I always take divine dash but struggles with surviving

[stoic tinsel]

divine dash lets you jojo walk up to fools

[surreal hazel]

within a single room yes

but it's still a massive "heal" if you use it within a room and survive

but it's obviously amplifying the damage you're taking within a room if you don't blow the DD and it primes a LOT, so... ehhhh

[stoic tinsel]

the 100 prime makes it so not worth it

[bleak night]

what aspect are you tryna 50f ?

[cinder palm]

I'm trying with charon rn but circe got me the furthest(until Oceanus miniboss killed me lol)

[bleak night]

The jellyfish ?

Yeah that thing is just a straight up death sentence at 50f

[cinder palm]

Yeppp straightup infinite armor and spin you to death in 2 secs

[bleak night]

might just need to luck into finding rat/serpent or having mint condition by the time you fight Oceanus minibosses ngl

[cinder palm]

Legit the only two times I've made it into oceanus I've always ran into it

That + the shadow clone is harder than chronos goddamn

[bleak night]

Fig Leaf it like Herroyung and just hit the miniboss instakill lmao

[glossy forge]

Lmfaoo

[glossy forge]

Just fig leaf it, easy game

[cinder palm]

But I need to force hep for 2nd zone

[glossy forge]

Whatever you’re comfortable with tbh

[cinder palm]

Honestly is it viable to fig leaf in erebus? I keep timing out 😭

[bleak night]

I think some people do it

[cinder palm]

Okay so maybe I've been sleeping on charon's shop lol

Breath of eros + dagger is my life saver

[bleak night]

fun fact

Charity Bottle says 0% but it works through Scars completely for 50% of your max HP. Have fun

[cinder palm]

Okay I'm using it lmao idc if I'm cheesing I'm using every trick to beat this

[lapis star]

yo what should i pick for 16 fears? i did full time, horde and frenzy and it was pretty hard (using pan and went surface route)

[willow phoenix]

Don't go max horde with max timer. Horde is very time consuming in general and something you should avoid when paired with other fears

Denial, Hubris, Return, Menace are usually far more manageable

Fangs and Shadow are usually manageable too but can be somewhat rng

[cinder palm]

Okay wth charity just healed me to full

[bleak night]

[nova dune]

Why is Hera Attack Zeus special considered the gold standard ? Origination ?

[untold zodiac]

i guess it's due to clear speed

[bleak night]

Origination is the main one, yeah. Otherwise, Attacks are usually better at spreading Hitch + Special boons (except for Hestia) generally have better numbers.

Hera has good scaling on attack as well, so it pops that Blitz fairly quick

[uneven palm]

I Fig Leaf’d that guy on my last 50F. Felt real good

[uneven palm]

Hera’s just hard to beat against crowds and the damage boost is good enough, and nothing else scales up damage-wise like Blitz so that takes huge chunks out of any beefier enemies. So they work well together, even if lore-wise they wouldn’t admit it

[nova dune]

Thanks for the answer guys

Is this true only for high fear or generally? I really like aphro attack for lower fear runs

[spare kite]

Hitch has lower value at low fear usually yeah

I still prefer hera personally cuz of her duos or stuff like extended family/bridal glow

[wooden sleet]

Also zeus hera is great for the 2 curse arcana dmg boost

[willow phoenix]

What are the boons that benefit the most from queen's ransom? I got Sworm Strike to lvl20 and it has +300% damage, curious how the other Hera boons scale

[bleak night]

Fine Line, Born Gain and ER probs ?

Born Gain caps to a point, probably at 10 I think, but still

[spare kite]

Yeah the ramsons are def better for flat amount stuffs

[kindred sonnet]

whats good on the coat other than dashstrike poseidon spam

[untold zodiac]

cardio gain (aspect of Nyx)

[willow phoenix]

Ah Hera actually has 2 boons that don't get upgraded by poms, that kinda sucks for ransom

Extended family actually doesn't scale with poms, that's a shame

[kindred sonnet]

cardio gain and then just any attack special combo that procs origination? and im guessing no omegas

but also in that case would glamour gain be better since it already applies a curse and you are going to be close up anyways

[willow phoenix]

Dashstrike spam with static shock and master conductor 👍

[pseudo sequoia]

well no bc glamour gain is not a very good magick regen 😭 if you really want to apply weak i'd sooner recommend passion rush

[kindred sonnet]

yea but do you really need a strong one for nyx? you basically just spend 30 magic every 5 seconds, which isnt very much

[atomic ibex]

Is it worth it to go for spin on 32 than, or should I just use it as an attack stick?

[bleak night]

Get a hammer and decide from there if it's worth investing into spinning or you just attack

[cinder palm]

Yes if you got psychic no if you don't imo

[atomic ibex]

mynt hath spoken, I shall follow this religiously

[bleak night]

Usually it's Psychic Whirlwind and Seething Marauder that let you decide which way you want to go, but Seething is still usable on omega attack if you find Psychic down the line

[atomic ibex]

What about advancing whirlwind? Is that good enough to go for a spin build?

[bleak night]

Psychic means you go full Omega focused, Rapid Slash means you go fully attack focused, Seething lets you open up either path still, but you mostly stay as an Attack bot

[bleak night]

Didn't they remove that one like 3 patches ago

[atomic ibex]

Wait I forgot the name

[spare kite]

Furious?

[atomic ibex]

Yeah that one

[bleak night]

ah if Furious then idk, honestly I don't think it's entirely worth taking unless you have Seething or Psychic Whirlwind first

alone it's kinda meh, but when compounded with something else it's incredibly good

[cinder palm]

Using the omega spin without psychic is too dangerous imo, if the enemy attack you have to dodge and lose out on dps

[bleak night]

Pretty much, yeah.

also ngl I think they should change some of the Axe hammers

maybe let Rapid Slash do a 30% Strike Speed boost rather than Attack Speed, that way the Special is also quicker. Lets it be usable

Siege Shredder is just so bad

Maybe I'd enjoy it more if the hitbox wasn't so weirdly disjointed, maybe just make the range that much longer without letting the melee 3-hit suffer

[willow phoenix]

A hammer that makes the o special do a vertical spin would be very funny. So you can do both horizontal and vertical spin for a true beyblade

[bleak night]

just needs more special hammers tbh yeah

[safe notch]

https://i.imgur.com/s0RHi6P.jpeg

what i'm rockin arcana wise these days

[grizzled tartan]

No lovers…

[cinder palm]

That and the animation lock it puts you on feels like years

[bleak night]

Have you considered giving full rerolls and 300 gold a shot? It's rly good

[cinder palm]

No rerolls?

[silent crow]

rerolls r lame

[lapis star]

i just ran out of magick on pan with born gain , on typhoon 16 fears bro, i was so close too

[silent crow]

you should turn off your reroll card and turn on lovers and messenger 😊

[unkempt isle]

what's a good 32 fear build for the current patch? its my last wall and i wanted some diff ideas.

[safe notch]

so i actually used to run full rerolls but, the way i play surface i really don't need it

[junior trail]

is possessed affected by chaos's talent? (magick usage -x%)

[safe notch]

i start with a god keepsake and then run phial on the very next pool which gives me a lot of control over how my build starts and i just kinda let the gods take me from there and usually things go well enough

BUT i need that bit of reroll to make that start more consistent

just a pinch of rng control goes a long way, lovers is good and messenger is decent but i really suffer from the don't get hit mentality in this game

which is to say i do indeed suffer because i do get hit plenty, i'm not too good for that stuff, but i aspire to be!

[bleak night]

[bleak night]

I don't think so because Weed Killer and Fine Line don't increase it either

would make sense that it won't decrease either

[bleak night]

Ooh do you have a no-hit run ?

[safe notch]

oh no no, i'm not no hitting by any means, i'm just trying to play solidly enough to not need the help from messenger/lovers

[bleak night]

fair. Idk I still just run Lovers anyway

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1343064391976747078/image.png?ex=67d3a4af&is=67d2532f&hm=834c06779fdbdeef01f9dd130b98bb84c96039e5e5221c0d70ee57628af9d209& pretty much my page for almost everything

move Artificer to Lovers for Surface runs, but besides that not much change besides maybe Night and a 3 cost over Origination on Selene

[civic ocean]

I have only Champs active of the 3 on my 50 clear IIRC

[bleak night]

tbf you're intentionally running Excellence

[civic ocean]

What does that have to do with rerolls

[bleak night]

it takes away 5

that you could use for rerolls + a 2 cost

[civic ocean]

I don’t think I would for that particular build but it could be done ye

[bleak night]

isn't 6 rerolls no Boatman how we used to do 50f anyway back in patch 2-3 or something

[grizzled tartan]

Just do full rerolls and nothing else, and hope other good ones get activated

[civic ocean]

I don’t remember tbh

[bleak night]

Oh you just go full rerolls and 300 gold judgment ?

[sage flame]

maybe but I think it was preference even then right?

[grizzled tartan]

Usually i dont, but now i want to try it

[bleak night]

Nah it was purely just Origination over Boatman every time back then, Foolish tested Boatman over Orig and just convinced people it's more consistent so we swapped. Nowadays we just have both on and remove Lovers because we're more experienced with 50s

[sage flame]

I feel like people would sorta "get" the stabilizing power of 10 rerolls

oh huh

[bleak night]

I'm just using mostly the same setup for most of the aspects nowadays, I just swap it out for 3 out of the 18

[civic ocean]

I think the way I play staff I use basically every major find in the game so I don’t need to roll off of stuff

So you don’t need it yknow

[bleak night]

Except I want a better setup, so i take the rerolls

Ephyra's too important in surface runs for me to want to just settle for stuff

[sage flame]

I still struggle with timer in erebus at 50 so like im gonna be rerolling for sure

[civic ocean]

I think that makes sense in surface ye

[bleak night]

I honestly don't mind using 8 rerolls for Ephyra alone

I mean even in UW people still want rerolls because the major finds are trickled in rather than all at once

so having what you want immediately is better, especially since location rerolls on miniboss doors are potent

[sage flame]

yeah that ^

[civic ocean]

But I always get what I want without having to roll it because I use every god and every major find on staff essentially

[bleak night]

Do you win most of them or do you die because you settle for stuff

because I know you're not skill issued

[civic ocean]

I think I tried 3 times, won with 4:45 left on the clock, and then moved on to streaking 32s?

[bleak night]

Idk, feels like it's better to just be more consistent and have the rerolls

[civic ocean]

I got out of Ephyra every single time though

[bleak night]

They're there to prevent you from being RNG screwed by boons

[civic ocean]

Because I had excellence 🙂

[bleak night]

Did you win tho

because Excellence is kinda useless still for me

Nowadays I just make do with commons based on the hammer I find in Ephyra and I win off of it

Not everything has to be Rare because some things don't need that +1 pom level of stats

[civic ocean]

Yeah you gotta know what you want for it and build for it for sure

[bleak night]

isn't that why you have the rerolls

[civic ocean]

6 is enough

[bleak night]

The new thing for Ephyra is to just hunt for a Hera, get your best core, then go to her for Bridal Glow

[civic ocean]

Or 3 or whatever

[bleak night]

nah, I'll just disagree there lol.

[civic ocean]

So if you don’t get hera in ephyra now what do you do

[bleak night]

I still win, because I didn't need to Bridal Glow anything anyway

It's just helpful, not a run-decider. I'm rerolling small doors because they save time

[civic ocean]

Yeah that’s a good argument for rerolls on surface 50s for sure

[bleak night]

idk man, I don't think you can argue with me on this even if I have no brain for it, my results speak for themselves and they're all recorded

they work

The guide works for the people trying it on 32

I'll just recommend what's proven and tested

[civic ocean]

Why though

[bleak night]

Because at the end of the day I test stuff all the time to see what sticks

it's consistently better to just have the ability to just reroll more

[civic ocean]

Like why are you sticking to what’s proven and tested for an Early Access game with no ingame leaderboard based off of a difficulty that isn’t even balanced by the developers

Why not like experiment and have something more useful to say than “X sucks don’t run it”

[bleak night]

Because I'm literally making guides for people, so it needs to be the best strategy available?

Do you want me to just say "Excellence is okay but you sacrifice so much"

I already have stuff like "This is not optimal, but here are the niche cases." Excellence has none of that

[civic ocean]

The best strategy available for someone is the strategy that works for them in the single player story driven roguelike IMo

If someone wants to win with Excellence, I can show them how I did that now

[bleak night]

Except you're literally peddling that it's worth

tell you what, agree to disagree

[civic ocean]

Because to someone it might be, maybe someone doesn’t want to play rerolls and still win 32

[bleak night]

Sure, that's fine, but you're advocating it over something 100% proven and tested over months of testing in patches. I've used Excellence myself for weeks before

Best just tell people it's not the norm and that it's an alternative

[sage flame]

I do appreciate that someone is working with cards people see as worse tho, I think once you have the skills you can make anything work, but some things I would assume are just more straightforward in working

[silent crow]

its true

[bleak night]

Like, people genuinely look for advice in these sorts of channels, so just give them the best stuff available since they don't need the extra data

[civic ocean]

I want you to look back over my messages and see where I have advocated that excellence is a better card in general than boatman or origination

Being accepting and understanding of other strategies and what they do, and then proving that they can be executed at a high level, is interesting to me. I am not interested in copying Mynt’s builds and grinding over and over again to hit the arbitrarily established fear goal a seperate community has set. I want to build my own expertise in the game

[atomic bridge]

yo, any recs for a no arcana build? I've beaten the game a few times but I always gotta be at max arcana and wanna try my hand at doing it card free without dying instantly lmao

[bleak night]

You are literally arguing that 6 rerolls is enough because you get rarity on everything lol

idk what that is if not saying the other 4 aren't needed

[civic ocean]

Yes, for me, in my experience, from my perspective

[bleak night]

No Arcana build...?

[atomic bridge]

like no cards active

[bleak night]

uh

[sage flame]

any of the axes probably

[bleak night]

Oh, an aspect for it ?

[civic ocean]

Take high percentage boons like Aphrodite and scale up your max hp on Axe

[bleak night]

I feel like Pan might still be good because you just need Poseidon on the Special?

[sage flame]

mel axe and frinos will give you comfy max hp

[bleak night]

You can mix and match the rest on the way and play, since I'm guessing just pure no cards, no timer, etc

[civic ocean]

Pan poseidon or mel coat is good too

[silent crow]

i did mel axe with dashing heave and heph special

[bleak night]

isn't Mel Axe with Dashing Heave just an instant win in most cases anyway

it's like Mel Blades with Trick Knives

[quick crescent]

panseidon with engagement ring, poms and golden rule is a nice touch if you can find

[bleak night]

isn't Golden Rule kinda bad now

[atomic bridge]

thanks bros I appreciate it
ill try a run with the axe + high HP build and if that doesnt work out ill go Pan 🫡

[bleak night]

Like, they nerfed it beyond recognition or something iirc?

[quick crescent]

iiiiiiiiiiiiii do not recall

[bleak night]

Yeah it's 3% per 100 gold now, wtf. It used to be Power I think? I didn't use it much

[quick crescent]

last time i played it was with my momus minion build and i believe that was still olympus patch

[civic ocean]

3% per 100gs it’s not great value unless you randomly have 2k gold

[bleak night]

Oh, it's been nerfed for a long time I think. Was already nerfed in Olympus patch

[quick crescent]

mmmyea

[magic moss]

u think its enough to clear boonless with? im kinda getting bored of blades

[sage flame]

yeah :c

[bleak night]

Why are you doing this to yourself

[quick crescent]

still, doesn't hurt if you have poseidon (essential for pan) and hera (great for pan) to start with

[magic moss]

because playing the game normally is getting boring

[bleak night]

I suppose so yeah. I think the Pan players are gravitating towards Mortal Gain now I think ?

[quick crescent]

as long as you're not passing up slip or something else that's obviously better

[bleak night]

do I qualify for the bounty board btw

it's not an UW run, it's a Surface run

[quick crescent]

what does mortal gain do for panseidon i wonder

[bleak night]

Access to the duo

[magic moss]

it says uw so no
im kidding yeah ill change the board to include both paths

[bleak night]

Arterial Spray is just really good to have is all

[quick crescent]

oh yeah no that's tight as hell

[bleak night]

I think that's what they go for? I don't really play Pan much

[quick crescent]

that and king tide sound nasty

[bleak night]

I'm not very good at it

[spare kite]

Pan players (derogatory)

[sage flame]

I honestly don't like pan that much ngl

[quick crescent]

i don't either but i always try to get better with it when daggers are thirsting

i don't like daggers much overall tbh, pan is just funny cuz big number go brrr

[sage flame]

im more of an attack blades gorl I guess

[bleak night]

Feels like it's a playstyle mismatch for a lot of people is all

[bleak night]

I might be able to change your mind about Blades

Been testing it out and I've kinda figured out Mel Blades now

[sage flame]

pan used to be my fastest clear before I locked in with moros but idk it's jus like whatever

[quick crescent]

backstab aspects are never my thing and i just don't have the Big Brain to get artie down

[sage flame]

arty blades are my favorite:)))

[bleak night]

Oh, the backstab thing isn't something you need to think about, because the attacks are secondary. You toss the special a lot

I'm writing a lil guide on it, been doing some runs and the Special-focus on it just puts in more work than the early Attack-focused Mel Blades builds

[sage flame]

blades special good

[quick crescent]

ohhhhhhh i see that actually makes sense

[bleak night]

I start Zeus Special purely because you can hunt for Duos with 5 god options on Attack

and 2 other gods are good for defensive/utility, while Apollo is good for Sprint and Backburner

[quick crescent]

i kept thinking how do you backstab typhon and then i remember special exists

[bleak night]

So Zeus Special + any of the 8 other gods being useful kind of make it super flexible

[sage flame]

common zeus special W

[bleak night]

having trouble finding other aspects that enjoy all 9 gods off of a specific start

[civic ocean]

I don’t like daggers that much either but I put together a fun and strong build with the mel special

Basically go for the Ares-Zeus duo and Light Smite, and then you can create huge fireworks displays with 2x chances from Ares and 3x chances from the Artemis Prime

Veerery neat build

[bleak night]

Mel Blades on a Zeus Special start is nice because you can just fish for every single duo that makes sense

Hestia/Poseidon/Ares/Aphro/Hera on Attack with Dem/Heph for Arctic Ring/defensives/utility and Apollo for Sprint + Back Burner among other things

it's just way more mix and match than Charon

[quick crescent]

when i first started playing blades i was trying zeus attack because they're quick but that very quickly lost its luster

[bleak night]

I suggest giving Zeus Special a shot if you ever feel like going Mel Blades

You'll probs find it incredibly nice

[sage flame]

me building for the very powerful thermal dynamics duo

[bleak night]

That's not that bad no ?

[sage flame]

what is it like 80 scorch or something?

[bleak night]

Hestia/Zeus/Demeter is a pretty nice core on Mel Blades ngl

[sage flame]

I don't think it's very good but hestia core is good on blades don't get me wrong

[bleak night]

that 80 might add up if you continue your combos, but tbh anything works on Mel Blades anyway

[civic ocean]

Thermal Dynamics and Freezer Burn is the play

[sage flame]

yeah that's what I would assume, just extra freezer burn buildup

[bleak night]

I think that duo needs a little something more to it

[sage flame]

idk it's just underwhelming compared to other duos

maybe I'll try it out today

[bleak night]

ngl best set to have for Mel Blades is Pos/Zeus/Aphro anyway

Killer Current + Romantic Spark is a little silly

[sage flame]

hell yeah

killer current is 30%? and spark is 80% right

[bleak night]

Yeah, they work together

[sage flame]

not that it matters tbh it's good

[bleak night]

just additive bonuses to Blitz, but still, it's quite good since you have Origination from Slip, Weak and Blitz

I think the duos don't matter as much as the hammer luck anyway though

just need Trick Knives and the build is mostly done

[sage flame]

trick knives 🙏

are you a fan of the bouncing special? im not particularly cause it limits crowd pierce

[bleak night]

I think it disables Backstab? I was watching someone and it just disabled it unless the target was alone

[sage flame]

yeah it does p sure

it doesn't return most of the time

[bleak night]

might be better on Arty with Hitch blades then maybe yeah ?

[sage flame]

probably, or just pan prob cause I think it's Specials

[bleak night]

issue with Arty on Trick Knives is that the Trick Knife projectiles don't seem to benefit from the aspect's 50% crit off of Riposte?

[sage flame]

oh weird

[bleak night]

Yeah I was rewatching my Arty 50f clears when I first did them, noticed that only the dash attack itself was critting

[cinder palm]

Bruh reached 50 fears chronos and then died cause I got frozen while he did his insta kill

[bleak night]

yep, relatable.

[cinder palm]

Maybe I understand what's the insta kill complains were about when the game launched actually

[bleak night]

the instakill complaints back then were about how the visual clarity was really hard to see

it was completely black instead of the red tinge we have rn iirc

[civic ocean]

Happened to me too lol you’ll get back there

[fallow cobalt]

Glorious disaster but with lightning lance
Maximum zappy circle

[fallow cobalt]

Just go all in on Zeus lightning effects really
Plus super nova and possibly cut above/cutting edge

[junior trail]

Winner is pretty good with Glorious too

[wintry jacinth]

how does the boosted ignition Daedalus Hammer define "after your dash or specials"? Like, is it the very next attack you make, or all attacks for a few seconds, or smth else?

[spare kite]

The attack after either of those actions

[wintry jacinth]

nice, ty ty!

[untold zodiac]

so Lethality works on the next attack rather than next hit and it works on every hit of that attack
must be fun with Pan

[spare kite]

You could do some fun setup with the +power from dio

[untold zodiac]

oh my, i'm selecting his boon at the very moment

[uneven palm]

That was common until Foolish started campaigning for 10 rolls and was right

[untold zodiac]

does his buff boost all the rockets from coat or just 1?

[spare kite]

Should be all rockets, has the wording of "your next move"

[untold zodiac]

ok thx

[uneven palm]

This is accurate, it's just the dash-strike with Trick Knives. Still good on Artemis just because Trick Knives is good, and it seems lke the optimal rotation there is special -> dash-strike so the first non-Trick special can crit (both ways) too.

@bleak night so yeah the dash into instant omega tech on staffs is very fun https://imgur.com/a/94cgPbB

[dull zephyr]

hello guys good afternoon, someone knew about build for axe from melinoe???

[civic ocean]

Really fun build for mel axe:

take aphrodite to start and look for her, demeter, ares and poseidon

Take all of the max hp increasing boons, Hearth Appetite and Mutual Destruction. Jack up your HP as high as you can go and enjoy your free permanent double damage

[bleak night]

It's great on Mel Staff and Circe, yeah

[bleak night]

Going full Apollo on it isn't a bad shout since Extra Dose, Dazzling Display and Back Burner are nice to have on melee weapons

I've been enjoying Apollo Attack + Passion Rush a lot more now

[signal coral]

is it just me or is passion rush goated?

easy to apply weakness, plus if you're spamming dash like a maniac it feels like it's hitting pretty often, so the damage is not bad

[civic ocean]

Passion Rush is really good yeah it has a lot of really strong stuff it might be my favourite dash boon

[inland pumice]

When you guys take boons that prime magic for an effect, are you usually going for a non magic build? Because I did a run today where I used chain lightning and I basically didn’t use omega moves at all, I was mostly spamming normal attacks

Most times I try to incorporate magic and omega attacks into my run because a lot of weapon aspects synergize with them, but that run made me realize maybe I don’t need them?

[fair horizon]

Not much relation between priming and non-magic build... except that if you are running without magick then obviously you can take all the priming without a care.

[inland pumice]

Well I’m just saying if you are running magic build you probably don’t want to prime too much right? As it limits how many omegas you can do quickly

But if you’re just spamming attack or special you don’t need to worry about that I guess

[fair horizon]

Naturally, but with Moros I'll still take Static Shock, just get extra magick-ups or Hecate's keepsake, etc.

[civic ocean]

Something I have started to feel very strongly about is that I am not meant to take Huntress as an Arcana card almost ever because of its interaction with mana priming

I have 12 builds that I run, 6 under 6 surface. Of those, I think 4 of them don’t use magic at all?

[fair horizon]

In general, Huntress feels too mentally weighty, if only it activated when you are completely primed-out...

To the point that might as well be an Arcana for magick heavy builds

[uneven palm]

Yeah the prime boons are a trade-off. Either you need to use less magick or get more robust gains or get more pots to use them. Or just not use magick

[civic ocean]

I think most of the priming boons interact favourably with rapid fire right so not often do they work well with omegas anyways

[inland pumice]

Yeah with my chain lightning build I ended up not needing to use magic, I grabbed Aphrodite regen to inflict weak on enemies, had wounds on my attack, and then got a bunch of boons to buff chain lightning

And then just spammed attack normal for the rest of the run

Usually I try to incorporate magic into my build, as I said so many weapon aspects and boons synergize with omega attacks and specials, so I was trying to take advantage of those.

But now idk, maybe I shouldn’t rely so heavily on those

[fair horizon]

I mean it depends on the aspect

[civic ocean]

Why not do both? I think being able to adapt to what the game gives you is fun and rewarding

[fair horizon]

And also depends on your max magick situation and your magick gain situation

[inland pumice]

If I can I will, but usually you have to make a choice of which direction to go based on what you get

I find trying to do both sometimes leaves me with less power than I’d hope

[civic ocean]

Then maybe you have to pick, yeah

[signal coral]

I take huntress most of the time because there's nothing better to take with only 2 grasp but i forget to use it half the time