h2-builds-and-combat

[surreal hazel]

but it seemed to just add 1 power per 10 gold, which is like slow cooker on speed

[vale gate]

fast cooker

[surreal hazel]

tbh, 10% per hundred gold is obviously out of whack with hearty appetite

[steel sequoia]

i feel Spirit Surge is better too, didnt tested it too much tho

[neon maple]

Got what I'm pretty sure is the ideal setup for the new Spirit Surge, and it's... okay, I guess? Using the Mel staff, I picked up Mirrored Thrasher, Hearth Gain, Flame Strike, Spirit Surge, and Extra Dose all by mid-Oceanus. Found Static Shock partway through Tartarus and managed to hit it with 2 triple poms, which was actually pretty sweet.

Spending mana with Mirrored Thrasher does trigger Spirit Surge, and Hestia's gain makes Mirrored Thresher have no downside as long as you're not whiffing attacks. It feels very strong for on-hit builds.

However, even with that setup, Spirit Surge only did 25k damage by the end of the run, compared to Scorch at 132k, Attack at 70k, and Static Shock at 32k, even though Static Shock only got into the build for the last 3-4 chamber fights + Chronos.

[surreal hazel]

It actually gets used, but it's seemingly very specific as to when it's worth having

I don't know how spirit surge scales with poms

Hopefully it's like electric overload, but eh

[past salmon]

It's pretty weak atm yeah
Literally just needs a damage buff

[neon maple]

Rare level 5 was doing 37 per proc on my run.

[surreal hazel]

20 for rare base?

[neon maple]

That sounds right?

[surreal hazel]

I haven't seen it enough times yet

[silent crow]

is spirit surge fr 20 damage when you use magic

[surreal hazel]

to a nearby target

[sage flame]

that's crazy small

[surreal hazel]

with a rate of 0.2 secs between attacks

I feel like it does proc while you're fully charged though?

as in, holding a channel but not released yet

[sage flame]

best case I was thinking was the bloodline torches oatk build

but it would be such a small boost idk if it's worth finding

[steel sequoia]

its not spammable as Static Shock, idk about the dmg

[surreal hazel]

doesn't prime 50 magicka, mind you

Also the low damage means that Air Quality has some benefit, but still, 150 DPS optimally is still... okay I guess

[silent crow]

but its random target 😭😭

[steel sequoia]

i dont think thats too bad tbh, its not like you dont have enough output to kill stuff anyways, its just an extra that is good for bosses most likely

[sage flame]

does the new hera boon that emulates old engagement ring use the status of your cast boon? or just damage only

[silent crow]

damafe gonly

[sage flame]

sad

[vale gate]

Is it just me or do the skulls just absolutely suck to play

Unless at point blank or if the enemy is huge like a boss or midboss most of the time they just miss

[sage flame]

are you on m&k or controller

[vale gate]

And they are impossible to spot after they're thrown

Kbm

[vale gate]

I end up having to pause for a good 5-10 seconds because I can hardly see them

[sage flame]

id look at your aim assist setting maybe? it could help to turn it on/off depending on how you're missing

[vale gate]

Don't think I've turned aim assist off but my understanding was it's just a filler toggle?afaik there's nothing that autoaims in the game

[silent crow]

ya skulls suck on kbm you need to be rly good at aiming

[vale gate]

Atleast I know im not the only one

[sage flame]

and really good and knowing where enemies like those harpies can get hit

[vale gate]

There should be some way of attacking even with 0 ammo

[silent crow]

the special 😼

[vale gate]

Skulls have a special?

[stoic pecan]

all weapons have a special

[sage flame]

it should be like the sheep form attack

[spare kite]

Mel punches the enemies

[vale gate]

On a serious note they should add a reload feature for skulls like the gun in h1 which would cause the skulls to return to you

[vale gate]

My attempt at a funny

[stoic pecan]

yeah i figured a bit too late 😛

[silent crow]

that kinda defeats the purpose

i thin kthey should just increase the hitbox of the skull projectile

[stoic pecan]

there is a hammer that does that iirc

[sage flame]

i don't find myself unable to collect my skulls that often unless they fly off the map in oceanus in that one room

[vale gate]

Well you will still have to wait for them to drop, and come back to you, and they could make it so you can't attack while reloading

[silent crow]

the point is that you have to go and pick the m up

[sage flame]

never miss again and only use omega attack

(guarantee)

[vale gate]

Lowkey going to have to do that

[sage flame]

they buffed the rocket hammer so hey :)

[round moss]

they should just remove skull weapon 🙂

[vale gate]

🙂

[sage flame]

it's awesome tho

[round moss]

feels like they could ues a true melee weapon akin to the fist or sword from first game

[fervent narwhal]

axe and daggers and staff

[vale gate]

the sheep hex needs to be nerfed

the skulls are messed up with the - speed on move and sprint chaos curse

each throw pushes you back a very significant amount to the point you move faster through recoil than regular sprinting

[civic ocean]

Staff isn't designed to be a melee weapon it's just playable that way due to some hammers. Like not a single aspect encourages you to play melee right

[round moss]

the axe special is like the longest range atk in the game

daggers special is also ranged, and omega attack still teleports. dagger is closest though

fist and sword had both melee atks & specials with hammers that continued that.

[silent crow]

the sword special is a huge aoe

doesnt mean its not a melee weapon

[round moss]

its not that huge

it slams infront of you

axe special hits offscreen lol, its def not melee.

[silent crow]

so dont use it

[round moss]

dont use the best part of the weapon and pretend its melee 😛

[silent crow]

you never use axe omega special on non-charon aspects

[limpid coral]

what is a true melee weapon and why would it be good

[silent crow]

you also never use dagger special on mel or arty blades

[round moss]

which is probably why every1 uses charon axe ;p

[silent crow]

the other axes are still top tier

[round moss]

the fist from hades 1

why would it be good? anything could be good, i just think it'd be fun to have a melee focused weapon

[silent crow]

axe is melee focused..

[limpid coral]

mel axe sure did clear 54

[silent crow]

literally 1 aspect uses the ospecial and that 1 aspect is the most one-note aspect in the game lol

[vale gate]

every weapon in h1 had ranged casts

[round moss]

but you just didn't use the cast as fist ;p

[vale gate]

this game just replaces that with stationary casts and ranged specials

[round moss]

idk, feels like there's more of a focus on ranged

[vale gate]

daggers is more melee than fists

[silent crow]

so ignore it and play melee

[round moss]

how do you figure? my playstyle with fist was point blank, dash behind, repeat.

[civic ocean]

Also the fists would super suck in this game since you only have one dash

Also laughing at "the melee weapon covers a large area so it's ranged"

[silent crow]

that was the playstyle on every fist for every aspet

[round moss]

"The melee weapon has the longest range attack in the game" you mean

[silent crow]

basically the same amount fo melee weapons in hades 2 as in hades 1

bc all 4 fists are the same

[civic ocean]

It's an axe, do you know how axes work?

Also, less range than the torches and skulls, and less range than the dash attack on the staff

[round moss]

Yes, I'm pretty sure axes don't send shockwaves flying far away. wtf kind of question is "do you know how axes work"

[vale gate]

thats literally how daggers works too?

[civic ocean]

Is this your first time playing a fantasy game with a giant axe

[round moss]

Nope, they usually don't send shockwaves , that's more of a 2h mace thing

[civic ocean]

Your loss I guess

[round moss]

Doesn't really change the fact that if its providing a super long range attack its not melee.

[limpid coral]

Does having a ranged option (that by the way is really really expensive) make it no longer melee

[round moss]

If the ranged option is the best part of the weapon, then yeah.

[civic ocean]

Best part of the weapon lol

[limpid coral]

...mel and than axe hardly ever use ospecial bruh

[round moss]

Really expensive? you get 1 boon and its infinite & free. wdym.

[vale gate]

every weapon in hades 1 had a ranged option so your entire argument about it not being like h1 is flawed

[limpid coral]

Free

[round moss]

Yes, as in, it gives more magick than it costs.

[limpid coral]

Oh you mean lucid gain charon

[round moss]

Fist & Sword did not. Sword special had decent aoe but it was still a melee slam around it.

[silent crow]

you know the best part of fists is that you can ignore the weapon and run merciful end

[vale gate]

every aspect had a ranged cast which could be very easily scaled and built around in a way you could completely ignore the melee aspect of every weapon

[civic ocean]

Zagreus has a ranged option on literally every weapon too, with casts

[silent crow]

why play anything else in hades 1 whben you can force beowulf mirage shot smh hades 1 is a bomb game actually because the best weapon is beowulf mirage shot

[round moss]

The cast was universal across all weapons, only attack/special change with weapon type, so that's what im focusing on.

[civic ocean]

Okay go drop your feedback then ig

[spare kite]

H1 had every weapon be a melee weapon tbf

[round moss]

Idk why you're all so defensive, there's definitely a focus on ranged in this game --- she's supposed to be a witch.

[limpid coral]

Im just a bit confused like what would having an aspect that cannot do ranged things add to the game

[civic ocean]

We're not being defensive, we're pointing out that there are several viable ways to play melee builds on weapons and you're stamping your feet and saying NUH UH

[round moss]

I'm sure the game devs would acknowledge they focused more on range this game.

[limpid coral]

Like they have 5 usable weapons rn if u took one of them and just removed the ranged part replacing it with a melee thing it would be a pretty boring weapon

[civic ocean]

What is the ranged option on Medea

[limpid coral]

Oh true lol

Theres ur melee weapon

[round moss]

I didn't say replace 1, i said add a full melee focused one

Whats medeas

[civic ocean]

Aspect of Medea?

[round moss]

ya which 1 is that

[limpid coral]

U have to dash into things to hit them u have no ranged attack. Ok besides oattack. But that sucks anyway

[silent crow]

smh smh the omega mobves

base skull omega moves

[round moss]

i havent messed with the skull too much i already decided i hate it

[silent crow]

incredible mindset

[round moss]

I tried it, didn't enjoy having 3 shots that need to be collected constantly.

don't have to be a see ya next tuesday

[vale gate]

it feels like playing with h1 casts only except they dont autoaim and dont lodge

[silent crow]

they really should autoaim lol

[round moss]

i usually just used h1 casts to put something in a boss for extra dmg then ignored them on msot builds

but if you wanted to focus casts you could have auto reload or w/e

[civic ocean]

idk if I want them to autoaim they can definitely turn you around then sometimes

[limpid coral]

either add autoaim or make the cursor not get lost every 5 seconds

[vale gate]

screw the cursor, i cant even find my skulls after throwing them

[vale gate]

is full salvo any good

[round moss]

how are you supposed to clear the first region in 5 mins on 50 heat, thats the part i understand the least.

[spare kite]

Pray

[cursive oyster]

get really lucky

[round moss]

Like you have no boons early, everything has tons of health cause next level and barriers....

[timber pawn]

Not especially

[round moss]

its hard not because of the 50 fear... but ALSO 5 MINS??? wtf

[cursive oyster]

get rocket bombard and now you have clockets ig

[round moss]

not only because of the 50 fear**

[spare kite]

Not only you need to GetTheBoons™ but also GetTheRooms™

[timber pawn]

I mean 5 mins on not-50 is pretty comfortable once you get a handle on things

[round moss]

what are you even hoping for though? first boon is by default turned off, what do you want to appear 2nd?

[limpid coral]

whatever works good with your aspect idk

[round moss]

its a huge diff on 50, you have tons of enemies from next region, they have way more health, revnants spawn, they have barriers, and ur missing first boon + lots of magick.

[limpid coral]

some aspects are not real aspects at 50

[timber pawn]

Room rng. Free chaos rooms, midshop, arachne, nemesis, Artemis

[cursive oyster]

roll for your god room 2, the luck comes in because i usually beed arachne + shop + nemesis/arachne/fountain to clear

[cursive oyster]

*room 3

[limpid coral]

also every time you get hit you lose hp for tanking timer damage so get hit less too

[timber pawn]

I mean ya. I've cleared 45 and am familiar with 50. You want a couple free rooms and you need boons after c1 to cooperate

There is rng involved

[round moss]

the revnants driving me crazy tbh, they like bounce to the corner of the screen

[limpid coral]

every regular room is like at least 30 seconds usually so if u don't get free rooms u are just kinda sad

[round moss]

what keepsake you guys start with ;o

[silent crow]

dam lunar ray is 400dps

[limpid coral]

god keepsake

[magic moss]

there is a LOT of rng to clear erebus

[sage flame]

lunar ray sweep

[tall notch]

God keepsake if I'm playing something that can clear Erebus somewhat consistently, metallic droplet if I'm in gamble mode

[round moss]

i like the droplet

[tall notch]

@past salmon likes starting with droplet too

[round moss]

Is there a way to avoid 1st boss hex without frog companion or your own hex?

[sage flame]

just dodge it like 7 ish times

[round moss]

Oh really?

[sage flame]

ye

[round moss]

good to know

[tall notch]

what @sage flame said, also things that slow down projectile speed (so that one hermes boon and cyclones from demeter) make it much easier

[limpid coral]

if you're about to lose a life to timer damage tank a hit after getting sheeped

[tall notch]

Why does than axe deal 0 damage 😭 I keep reacing Cerb in a relatively chill state and then anything from that fight onward takes forever to kill

[limpid coral]

Have u tried spin? idk how strong it really is

13% crit sounds good but its not affected by huntress so idk

[tall notch]

I've been using it for early run room clear, against bosses I'm finding it hard to find many windows long neough to charge up the spin and then do it without getting hit 34094832 times

[sage flame]

honestly stacking than with Death card and actually switching omega moves is not bad at all for more damage, after that it's just praying for spin hammers

[limpid coral]

no sorceress?

[sage flame]

I mean yeah sorceress is good for than

[tall notch]

Right now I am trying to cook with no room rerolls and messenger to take strength

Maybe lethal snare will choose to show up and give me single target scaling

[silent crow]

simply storm ring

[vital ledge]

the new dagger hammer (+20 attack) seems pretty silly. went from barely doing any damage to ripping things apart

[cursive oyster]

rip escalating ambush

[tall notch]

With this hammer and the staff one for attack power, the +10 attack power hammer for axe feels a bit underwhelming lol

[vital ledge]

heh yeah. they could probably make this one +10 as well and it would still feel good 🙂 for attack spam builds at least

[silent crow]

but the dr 😔

[vale gate]

is axe generally the better aspect for high fear

weapon*

[uneven palm]

It's pretty solid. I think it has the most unique clearers overall

(I just joined the insane person club with Mel Axe)

[timber pawn]

Man I'm feeling the fomo

Maybe I should get on the 50 grind

[uneven palm]

IT SUCKS

Well, Erebus is v frustrating

[sage flame]

and of course charon will always be strong until all your magick gets primed at high high fears

[timber pawn]

So I'm told haha

[uneven palm]

if i had a nickel for every time I went "ooh trusty shield" and couldn't attack anymore i'd have many nickels

[sage flame]

but trusty shield so tasty mmmm yummy

[uneven palm]

i've also taken Giga Cleaver when I have 30 magick many times. I wish it'd fall back to the single hit when its too low, but also this is High Fear Problems™

[civic ocean]

#h2-feedback message there's some info in this post if anyone is curious how Chaos gates seem to work

[vale gate]

chaos counts as a major find

i think it works similar or even identical to how it does in h1

and the game tries to maintain a ratio between major and minor finds which changes through biomes iirc

[uneven palm]

yeah, if it's like H1 their tracking is basically "number of minor rewards", so taking anything that isn't a minor reward (major, Chaos, shop, friend) means you're likely to get a minor reward room later

[vale gate]

npcs dont count toward major or mind find counts

they can be either, so like if you have 2 doors with ash vs shop/npc, if you take the free room your next room will probbly be a major

[tall notch]

I think Mel axe is the easiest aspect to clear 50f with. I am trying to grind Thanatos right now and I'm seriously struggling to make the build scale

2nd time in a row I reach Tartarus and end up having timer trouble. Do I have to antler there or what

[uneven palm]

I was trying Thanatos earlier and couldn't quite get there

[knotty fulcrum]

idk for me thanatos was easier. well ig it was not 50 but 48 is still kinda close

[uneven palm]

How'd you play it?

[knotty fulcrum]

I think I was starting hera's keepsake. and if it was a good rarity attack I would take it, and if not Id take engagement ring

but this doesn't really work rn since engagement ring is not good anymore

but anyway the play is hera attack and just try to stay alive

[uneven palm]

do you recall how you scaled up for the endgame?

[glass tapir]

"· Spirit Surge (Zeus): reworked; now whenever you use magick, a surrounding foe is struck by lightning"

Uh, hear me out, isn't this gonna be great with the new Mirrored Thrasher

[knotty fulcrum]

well ig I would pom the attack as much as possible and ofc get origination

and thats it really I didn't try to get any other specific boon just what the game gave me

oh lethal snare from artemis is really good

and ofc getting some good hammers thats important too

[uneven palm]

Lethal Snare rules

[steel sequoia]

ER nerf making the game a lot harder

[tired fulcrum]

Onion not stonks

[knotty fulcrum]

well they also nerfed some important vows. so maybe not that much harder

[steel sequoia]

imo ER was more problematic than old momus, i barely saw some enemies before, idk if its balanced now but looked better when i played yday.

since i dont play high fear idk how that changes but its clearly easier

[green nymph]

Does attack power from melinoe axe like, scale with damage bonuses

[timber pawn]

Yup!

[limpid coral]

they saw how er plays against the really awful spindle rooms in erebus and oceanus

[tall notch]

AAAAAAAA I was 1 dashstrike away from 50f Than clear 😭

[tall notch]

Without rebuke, right?

[vale gate]

🧵 - JustFearThings

can scorch crit?

why is there a slowmode

[tall notch]

It's always been there, this is a large serve so not having the slowmode could make it too spammy

[vale gate]

5 seconds should be good

[bright token]

for me it's the other way around. mel axe base speed is too low for a lot of speedy mobs, you end up taking a lot of dmg. and than is 100% faster in the cursed erebus

it did take 3:15 for chronos with relatively safe play, but my entire dmg was 115% appolo attack, 10 base flat from the hammer and some winds from appolo duo

[timber pawn]

For mel axe I think most of the value comes from dashing heave

Which is pretty quick/mobile. You're not doing regular swings much

[uneven palm]

Yeah I made it to Chronos once or twice without Dashing Heave on Mel but it’s WAY better with

[vale gate]

how does cyclone stack with freeze

[uneven palm]

They’re different. Cyclones slow down movement and projectiles. Freeze holds them in place until it expires

[vale gate]

freeze does have slowdown after the initial lock in place tho

[tall notch]

For Erebus, I found that you can just take droplet and chill. By the time you get to Oceanus you should either have some strong CC for the mobs, attack speed or dashing heave

[tired fulcrum]

Freeze is a slow on tougher enemies and bosses tho

Idk it might stack or something because i had a cyclone dem cast on chronos and he took like 5 seconds to swing his scythe

[uneven palm]

Oh that’s true. I guess the slowdowns stack then?

[radiant stirrup]

so is the change to golden rule a buff or nerf?

[drifting skiff]

nerf

[vale gate]

stack additvely or multiplicatively

[drifting skiff]

additive i believe

[tired fulcrum]

Giga nerf

[tall notch]

It's not a nerf, it's cold-blooded murder

[steel sequoia]

i dont feel its garbage but ive played only a pan run with it

[tired fulcrum]

Real

[steel sequoia]

my dmg was pretty high

[bright token]

never played golden rule (and most duo/legendary for that matter cause you don't see much of them at high fear) but 3% global per 100 bucks sounds very low

[tired fulcrum]

Its not at all worth hoarding gold for gr anymore its just a bonus if you have excess from chaos wealths

[limpid coral]

would you rather have 9% additive or a boon

[tired fulcrum]

Unless destitution 2 a boon is worth 4.5%, with 2 its worth 8%

[bright token]

you can be hades's buffett and get to 3k but still have only 90% global

[steel sequoia]

i dont think 3% is all that low, i didnt even tried and i got like 5k extra gold run which is 150% boost, its still better than most buffs.

if you try hard enough i think you can get a ~10k gold run or more.

i know for high fear its not the same but you still get a good ammount if you invest correctly in the build

[tired fulcrum]

Get lucky with chaos/spend all your rerolls on them*

Theres just generally other builds/duos that are far more worth going for

[steel sequoia]

Quick Buck and Ocean's Bounty helps enough for it to be fair

yeah, but who is playing pos/hera now anyways?

[tired fulcrum]

Only pan

[steel sequoia]

i dont think any high fear build other than pan do that

[lunar kiln]

anybody know how to make aspect of eos work without just doing a special build that would work better with mel?

[tired fulcrum]

Poseidon cores kinda now

[steel sequoia]

special build for eos?

[bright token]

10k sounds unrealistic. realistic is to get a rare money bonus from poseidon, buy nothing and get to 3-4k. and if you sacrifice as much as not buying much of anything you need a boon that's gonna carry you. imo 4% would be more reasonable

[steel sequoia]

10k is pretty realistic when you got hermes, poseidon and chaos help for golden rule

[lunar kiln]

like how do i build on the omega attack yk?

[limpid coral]

why would you ever buy nothing if you have the gold

[tired fulcrum]

You can get 4k if you dont buy anything but youd be better of buying more boons and hearts and poms because sacrficing 3% every pom or 4.5% every boon isnt a lot

[limpid coral]

unless you say you only ever see the god that does not help u in ur shops

[steel sequoia]

id say go for aphro/heph with Hearth Gain @lunar kiln

and if you can get Static Shock is awesome too

[tired fulcrum]

And even with destitution youre getting more from poms and boons unless your damage is very spread out and getting more boons literally adds nothing

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah

[tall notch]

My issue is time, and having to strike everything 2 additional times is what's holding me back

[steel sequoia]

tbh if you can get statick shock, heart breaker and a good gain basically all builds are good

[knotty fulcrum]

teah rebuke really affects axe

[radiant stirrup]

starting to get used to playing with the torches, honestly really suprised freezer burn didnt get hit with anything. I didnt even have to think during that run, the game just played itself lol

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah 2x damage combined with the scorch attack buffs is kinda silly

[radiant stirrup]

idk what the perfect setup would be for a freezer burn build, but I actually took zeus on the special to try and get thermal dynamics at the same time

[glass tapir]

Trying it and, yeah, it seesm pretty good

[tall notch]

Blades/Torches Hestia attack, Demeter cast, Aphro dash imo

Or aphro regen instead of the dash alternatively

[radiant stirrup]

thats exactly what I had

except also with zeus special turns on pretty much all the duos you can get with those gods

[tall notch]

Yesterday i hit Chronos for 5.9k with freezer burn

[radiant stirrup]

ouch

[dreamy thicket]

Does the Magick you use for Zeus, Poseidon, or Heph sprint count towards activating Hex?

[silent crow]

yes

[vale gate]

how does bitterness work? if you have a god keepsake on does it push the forced first god back or just eats up that charge completely? and does picking up the onion add the god to your pool?

[limpid coral]

the onion does not count as a boon for any purpose

(technically its a major find)

[ashen kelp]

Is there a place to find the currently most powerful building? And or a list of different fun builds?

[steel sequoia]

think its easier to ask here because of the patch

just tell what you wanna play and which fear

[vale gate]

What about the keepsake forcing first boon?

[limpid coral]

what about it?

[vale gate]

Does that just happen later or gone forever

[limpid coral]

the onion isn't a boon, so the keepsake didn't do anything yet

[ashen kelp]

Any fear, just want to see how hard I can go. I usually play with axe or blades, but I’m open to others to have a fun change.

[limpid coral]

seems simple enough

[vale gate]

Oh so your next boon will be from your keepsake god

That doesn't even sound that bad then

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah after the onion the next boon should be from the keepsake

it can be any boon if it's in shop or from artificer

[vale gate]

Yeah got it thanks

Honestly worth taking over 30% extra hp

[round moss]

aspect of momus or aspect of circe?

[ashen kelp]

Also, I always do keepsakes in the following order: Circe, echo, Icarus, then either Medea or something random

[steel sequoia]

try playing 12 fear to get used to high fear, 7 min timer, fury2 and wandering2. i recommend charon, persephone, moros and momus so you find what you like to play more

[knotty fulcrum]

you can try charon (start with lucid gain, get some cast that inflicts a curse and smth on special)

[limpid coral]

holy if you like gambling so much why not chaos

[ashen kelp]

Charon is great. I spam cast and special omega

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah that's the strategy

[steel sequoia]

thats totally weird, i get a god first, than another god or Aromatic Phial, than chaos or hammer than a dmg boon for last usually.

try charon with lucid gain and check if you like

[round moss]

If you wanna focus on staff special whats the best boon for it

[knotty fulcrum]

you can also try moros which is like the best aspect.
just start hestia for her gain put like hera on attack and thats it

[vale gate]

Im going to do that to max the keepsakes

[steel sequoia]

staff special aint good so if ur low fear you can do anything if ur playing momus.

[round moss]

It isn't? whats good about the staff then

[limpid coral]

if you want to click special a lot you can put like scorch or waves on it i guess

[ashen kelp]

What do folks recommend for the skull weapon? Which aspect and build?

[limpid coral]

its gonna suck tho

[steel sequoia]

basic attacks (any aspect) with aphro, then get statick shock and Hearth Gain afaik

[round moss]

scorch on somethign that hits once infrequently?

[limpid coral]

oh you mean o special

[round moss]

thats probably the wrost thing i could put on it lol

[steel sequoia]

which skull? persephone is totally different

[round moss]

yeah sorry the omega special** my bad.

[steel sequoia]

scorch is good nowadays

[round moss]

if i wanna spam omega special, which boon is best

[steel sequoia]

prolly more usefull than poseidon

[steel sequoia]

try apollo or hera

[round moss]

alrighty

[ashen kelp]

Whichever aspect is most fun!

[steel sequoia]

im not a skull fan but if ur playing medea and mel you prolly go aphrodite/demeter

i like persephone so i usually go zeus or apollo for omega casting

[ashen kelp]

I’m trying to find something not blades or axe because that’s all I do. Something new and fun

[steel sequoia]

try charon

[round moss]

charon is still axe, try umbral flames!

[steel sequoia]

yeah, or pan

pan is blades lmao

@ashen kelp try moros or eos

[radiant stirrup]

can confirm, flames are insane. just did a run with hestia/zeus duo and it might be just as good as freezer burn

[magic moss]

staff :)

[steel sequoia]

damn we have a staff enjoyer now? u kiding me

[round moss]

the change to the zeus boon is also a big buff for umbral flames

[vale gate]

reject weapons, play dash only

[magic moss]

oh yeah baby thats me

[round moss]

sprint only*

[steel sequoia]

srry but no way someone trully likes staff

[ashen kelp]

Umbral flames. Are they actually good now? I found them so annoying as of patch 2.

[vale gate]

no, dash only

only passion dash

[ashen kelp]

I found them really unwieldy and annoying.

[steel sequoia]

all 3 aspects are good, moros is the best but the least fun i have playing i like other both

[magic moss]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1247919379245436991/1262923963466780732/image.png?ex=669905d8&is=6697b458&hm=ad3a199964816633f9663e464a32afd489cdd12d4d31c5064e991e496fd43555& weapon fun

[steel sequoia]

i like eos more cause its like a machine gun

[round moss]

if im focusing on staff omega special, is there any particular duo boons i should try to get?

[magic moss]

i actually wanna see if special circe is the play hm

[steel sequoia]

u prolly want at least hera or apollo, but duo boons are Elementary Particles most likely

[silent crow]

no you just want good hammers

[round moss]

I got the apollo special, and i picked it common so i can use the water to make it heroic

[steel sequoia]

yeah, basically good hammers with anything lmao

[round moss]

and my first hammer I got the omega special bounces targets, so im pretty set already tbh.

[steel sequoia]

yup, just get a good regen and blow things

[round moss]

what gods do i wnat now?

[tall notch]

They've always been good

[steel sequoia]

aphrodite, hera and zeus are good

[round moss]

for which boons?

[magic moss]

@tall notch im gonna spend the next like week trying to make ospecial circe work here we go baby

[steel sequoia]

the rest, you dont need specific anymore

[round moss]

like whats zeus offer me

[tall notch]

I wonder what'll happen sooner, you making ospecial circe work or me defeating Chronos on Than axe

[limpid coral]

ospecial circe sounds like oattack circle but (more) painful

[magic moss]

nah trust trust

[tall notch]

This is what coping sounds like

[steel sequoia]

ill give a tip for you newcommers, just do whatever you like, have some fun and explore the game bc if you wanna tryhard later you will play the same stuff all over so just explore stuff.

[magic moss]

thats what yall said about oattacks and look where i am no cope mhm

[steel sequoia]

but i do recommend getting used to playing fury2

[magic moss]

(staff ospecial is the worst omega move in the game)

[tall notch]

worse than skull oattack?

[magic moss]

yes

[tall notch]

no

[steel sequoia]

idk thats hard

[limpid coral]

skull oattack is good if you don't know where your cursor is 💀

[steel sequoia]

i think skull is worse bc u need the hammers

[silent crow]

on controller you literally cant see where itll go if you release it fast enough

[limpid coral]

yo i should try a low fear run with skull oattack with poseidon

[steel sequoia]

but staff ospecial u dont kill anything

[magic moss]

skull oattacks have faster channel speed, more aoe, more damage, and isnt stopped by contact

[steel sequoia]

id do a medea run with that just to harass myself

[silent crow]

god i wish staff ospecial is good its the only omega where u can do a dps combo with another move

[past salmon]

Skull O-Attack is good wdym!
Simply hit Rocket Bombard, Full Salvo and Bolstered all in the same run!
Oh and some channel speed would be good too
Maybe weed killer on top

[steel sequoia]

simply get all hammers and autoplay kekw

[limpid coral]

oh yeah full salvo oattack costs the same mana as usual right

[silent crow]

dash strike -> ospecial is literally the best gameplay ever

[uneven palm]

I like skull o attack when it’s Possessed Array

[steel sequoia]

i mean i doubt i will ever get a more fun run with medea oatk or staff ospecial than i have with anything playing Romantic Spark

[magic moss]

I have foolish charon + moros, bacn mel axe, and posh mel blades clear any other im missing?

congrats btw @uneven palm on your first 50!

[past salmon]

oh I have a Mel skulls hidden somewhere

I'd have to dig through my recordings thoi and I don't feel like it

[limpid coral]

for patch 4?

[past salmon]

yeh

[limpid coral]

(this is patch 4 right ok)

[magic moss]

dont rly matter im just keeping track of all clears now

since i have a comprehensive list of all clears now i can tell if its unique or not

well all expect foolish’s moros

[steel sequoia]

there is old momus, before and after ER, and later game launched like a religion

[radiant stirrup]

so, with hot flash (aphro/hestia) what does it really do lmao. like if im already applying scorch does it really matter if it doesnt diminish?

[steel sequoia]

yeah the scorch applies dmg while it ticks so the more you have the better

idk if the duo really worths, technically it does

[radiant stirrup]

I guess I dont get what "doesnt diminish" means

like does the scorch just keep getting applied or whats really happening?

[steel sequoia]

the more scorch you apply the more tick damages you get, so when it doesnt go down you only apply more and the dps should go higher. idk the formula for that tho

[radiant stirrup]

ok so its just straight up more scorch = more dps

[steel sequoia]

yup

[radiant stirrup]

this is gonna be fun when I (hopefully) hit zeus/hestia duo

[steel sequoia]

but it goes down if you dont keep aplying, the duo prevents that, i cant say if its good or not tbh

ive played it like once and cant even remember

but hestia/aphro/zeus is a reasonable core for straight dmg now

tho i miss not going for hera

[radiant stirrup]

I feel like if I get lucky enough, I could manage to squeeze demeter in here

[steel sequoia]

its really not hard to make a 4 god cores, but you usually dont get the ones you would like. people tend to go demeter/heph bc of the support

but if you manage good enough you can make a 5core with like 3-4 duos

i believe everyone understimates sprints as cores for building

[tired fulcrum]

It just means you can apply one stack of scorch and itll just keep doing damage without running out, adding more doesnt increase the damage

[steel sequoia]

wait how? doesnt make sense for me its worthless that way

[tired fulcrum]

Its literally how it works so

[radiant stirrup]

theres no way its that useless

it needs to be buffed immediately, thats ultimate trash F tier

[steel sequoia]

i dont think you explained correctly

if you stack more without running out you get more dps

it just doenst increase the ones you already ticked

[radiant stirrup]

wait yeah, if you apply more stacks then they wont run out therefore more dps over time

[tired fulcrum]

Scorch does 80 dps base stacking more doesnt increase it

[vale gate]

didnt know echos onion duplicate gives u cash

[tired fulcrum]

Wiith hot flash they dont run out anyways so it does nothing to the dps is the point

[radiant stirrup]

so its a boon that does nothing then

its completely worthless to ever pick

[steel sequoia]

yeah, ur telling me its a boon that does nothing

[tired fulcrum]

Well lets say you have a common hestia cast and pom pyro technique a lot then its useful

[radiant stirrup]

I could either slowly tick down enemies, or I blow up the entire world with freezer burn

[silent crow]

ok guy

[radiant stirrup]

bro wdym, it literally doesnt do anything compared to the other duos you could get

[steel sequoia]

yeah, i barely see it

i will try aphro/hestia/zeus sometime

i feel staff with that is playable

[tired fulcrum]

It has value when scorch is on like cast and your main damage boon is like aphro attack

[radiant stirrup]

I managed to get the duo in erebus, when I couldve had the zeus/hestia duo instead. if thats how it really works then I got ultra scammed

they need to explain stuff better, the description is vague

[steel sequoia]

yeah thats what it runs in my mind, and you have like a zeus special

[silent crow]

this duo is strictly better than the zeus hestia duo lmfao

[radiant stirrup]

ok now you're just lying

[silent crow]

zeus hestia duo gives you more scorch which lets it stya on enemies longer hot flash makes it stay on enemies infinitely

[civic ocean]

I believe the net dps increase from Hot Flash during a boss fight is something like 2x?

[radiant stirrup]

zeus/hestia with pyro technique is insane

[silent crow]

so is hot flash

[steel sequoia]

how so?

[limpid coral]

no no saad you don't understand one duo makes the scorch number go UP and bigger number is better

[silent crow]

because you have infinite scorch duration so the downside doesnt exist

[limpid coral]

why make number not go down when you can make number go up

[civic ocean]

That's not really the issue

[steel sequoia]

unananas literally said that its worthless to have infinite duration that ur dps doesnt go up

[tired fulcrum]

Thats what you said

[limpid coral]

(cheems, please think about what you are typing)

[civic ocean]

the issue is that people overrate the amount of time during important fights that they spend swinging

[silent crow]

by that logic zeus hestia duo does nothing too because it gives you more duration

zeus hestia duo gives you +1s of scorch when you blitz something

if you have pyro technique it gives you even less duration

[tired fulcrum]

And its functionally better with hot flash

[steel sequoia]

Thermal Dynamics (Zeus)
Your Blitz effects also inflict Scorch whenever they deal damage.

[silent crow]

inflciting scorch = extending duration

[steel sequoia]

i dont think its nearly close to this: Hot Flash (Aphrodite)
While foes are Weak, any Scorch they have does not diminish as it deals damage.

[tired fulcrum]

I think they just dont understand how scorch works

[steel sequoia]

scorch is a DOT

[limpid coral]

o that could also be the case

[tired fulcrum]

If you apply 80 million stacks of scorch it still ticks at 80 dps

[steel sequoia]

yeah but the higher the number, higher the ticks right?

[civic ocean]

Another way of looking at Hot Flash is that it inflicts something like 240 scorch over 3 seconds at 4 second weak duration

[tired fulcrum]

Bruh

[steel sequoia]

that doesnt make sense 80 scorch be the same damage as infinite scorch

[limpid coral]

unfortunately, no, scorch dps does not scale with scorch amount i think

[civic ocean]

per second this is true

[steel sequoia]

aint that a tick for each 80?

[silent crow]

no

[tired fulcrum]

No matter how many stacks of scorch you add it deals the same dps

[civic ocean]

Per second, 80 scorch and 80 million scorch deals the same damage

[steel sequoia]

jeez its just a timer than?

[tired fulcrum]

[limpid coral]

yea unless freezer burn

[silent crow]

yeah scorch amount is literally the duration of your scorch

[radiant stirrup]

then whats the point of repeatedly inflicting scorch (on a base level, no duos)

[steel sequoia]

so Hot Flash is really useless

[silent crow]

because if you dont itll tick away

[tired fulcrum]

it runs out

[silent crow]

80dps is a lot

[steel sequoia]

never runs out if you always apply

[tired fulcrum]

And not all builds want to spam scorch on their main attack

[civic ocean]

in theory as long as you could apply 80 scorch every single second you wouldn't need to stack it further

in reality that never happens so it's good to stack up scorch on bosses

[steel sequoia]

i mean if ur playing aphro/hestia and you cant stack scorch than jeez

[limpid coral]

only blades and torches can really outscale 80dps with a common or rare pommed attack right

[silent crow]

and staff kinda

[limpid coral]

staff with hammers thats true

[tired fulcrum]

Its useful when you have aphro on attack and can then have scorch as a secondary dps source

[steel sequoia]

yeah, thats dumb its a timer modifier

i tought each 80 would increase it

[radiant stirrup]

the way some scorch stuff is worded makes it sound like it stacks, I think a lot of stuff in this game is way too vague about how it actually works

[tired fulcrum]

nothing in scorches description implies it stacks the damage

[steel sequoia]

i was aware about the ticks, not that increasing them is just useless lmao

[civic ocean]

the only issue with this re: Hot Flash is how are you getting scorch and weak onto something reliably. You kinda have to hit Passion Dash and Smolder Ring exactly, right

Or Glam gain ig on bosses

[tired fulcrum]

I mean aphro gain

[limpid coral]

Weak does last 3 seconds right so you can get it from anywhere cast dash gain whatever and it does its job

[civic ocean]

But it's hard to stick those two onto a boss while trying not to die

[tired fulcrum]

I mean with melee youre already that close

[steel sequoia]

came on, zeus special, hestia ring, aphro atk, aphro dash and u built it

u prolly getting hestia gain too

anyways why we arguing this, it stinks

[civic ocean]

I think you can lose those with the vow of forgetting sometimes but yeah it can happen

[silent crow]

i mean usually u go for status effects bc of orig

[civic ocean]

I think I'm kinda low on orig for scorch atm

[limpid coral]

how much hp does chronos have? not sure if its up anywhere

[civic ocean]

iirc it's 20k+15k?

[pine wind]

20k phase 1, 16k phase 2

[limpid coral]

ok so scorch really is just kinda sad

[civic ocean]

Kinda depends what you mean

[limpid coral]

its just damn blades attack sucked so what else do you use like hera sometimes ig

[steel sequoia]

scorch aint that bad, but u cant throw like scorch skulls at monsters

i like to play it on eos/blades/staff

[limpid coral]

scorch skulls look so sick tho

[silent crow]

i mean we have no point of comparison

[limpid coral]

when the player got the flaming skull projectile

[steel sequoia]

old scorch was useless, this one is playable

i feel like poseidon is in the worse spot rn

[past salmon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1263272920659136554/20240718091513_1.jpg?ex=6699a216&is=66985096&hm=100c101b2072b07311f9c5e92030c3bcb45c4d7de7ed85c5ed7663b8581d400b&
Good to see frosty veneer is in fact still really strong

tbh it didn't actually matter tht much lmao
I got it end of fields and I had zero dds at that point so 💀

might have saved me in the final tart room its hard to tell

[steel sequoia]

frosty is good but its hard to activate

[rain hazel]

Is it just me or is the new apollo cast underwhelming?

[steel sequoia]

its good, the 2nd best cast for cast builds imo

[rain hazel]

Only 150dmg at legendary. What am I missing?

[steel sequoia]

daze for origination

[rain hazel]

Still not sure a good place to look up boons and I dont have the thing in game. What's origination'

[steel sequoia]

https://hades2-crossroads.vercel.app/

Origination
Deal +50% damage to foes afflicted with at least 2 Curse effects from different Olympians.

[rain hazel]

Ah, ok. I dont have origination sadly

[steel sequoia]

if u have 30 grasp you should actually

[rain hazel]

I have 27

[plain fossil]

Scorch skull attack is honestly okay esp on things like persephone

The only reason i dont like it on medea isnt the amount of damage its because delayed damage sucks on that weapon

[past salmon]

nah ur actually a psycho if ur putting flat damage attack boons on mel skulls

[plain fossil]

Well yea i didnt say put it on mel skulls did i

Lulululul

[past salmon]

Well
You said scorch skull attack is ok

"esp on persephone" does not mean you don't use it on Mel skulls

[plain fossil]

Well yes ok dont put it on mel skulls

Ur actually a psycho if u do that

Better?

[steel sequoia]

yall play 50f there is no better curse than that tbh

[junior zenith]

Why is Cerberus with Vow of Fury more troublesome than Chronos </333

[round remnant]

So.... You mean it's ok only on persephone

[steel sequoia]

you need to evade his attacks properly, sticking into him is punishable

[vale gate]

how much do you have to spend at a shop for expiring deal to break even

[round remnant]

267 assuming it's multiplicative with the vow

Er, 267 of base cost

Sorry what I mean is, if you were going to buy 267 gold worth of items, it's break even if you wanna buy expiring deal or not

[vale gate]

oka ty

[magic moss]

anyway spreadsheet is updated for the day, congrats to @uneven palm @limpid coral @leaden owl and @patent meadow for getting more unique 50F clears!

[vale gate]

6 40 heats in a row with mel skulls dying to chronos 6 times in a row 😦 it does not feel good

[leaden owl]

rip, what starting boon?

[vale gate]

hera or apollo

idk how you play skulls with kbm it is the most horrible weapon sgg could have come up with

feels good to have done 10 hours straight of nothingness smh

[magic moss]

its kinda bad yeah

[vale gate]

it is so winnable but idk HOW i throw so bad at chronos

i lose a dd in p1.1

[magic moss]

prob playing far mroe aggressively than you need to

[vale gate]

ill get there

[magic moss]

you can check out mel skull clear vods if u want

[plain fossil]

Agree, most of the time i see ppl throw mel skull runs its to ungabunga too much

The other thing i see is ppl going skull skull skull pickup when its not appropriate

[ashen kelp]

Has anyone else had trouble getting the final boom for chaos? I’ve played 120+ hours.

[magic moss]

do you mean the dd legendary boon? #h2-discussion message this is the best strat

[ashen kelp]

Yes. Thank you

[limpid coral]

dam I just noticed on my than run that cast did like almost twice the damage of attack

is storm ring start actually the play

[magic moss]

nah hera atk start

[limpid coral]

and i wasn't like sitting back and ranged casting everything i was going in with hera attack

[magic moss]

an atk boon is needed for erebus

but storm ring scales really nicely

[limpid coral]

maybe its cause the storm ring was ourple that it was good but idk

[magic moss]

no storm ring is good its just that without hera atk you struggle to clear erebus on time due to rebuke

[limpid coral]

also no heph defense that run 🙃

[magic moss]

after hera atk storm ring is good

but its def not a start since rebuke just screws over axe big time

[limpid coral]

Than can deal with it okay i feel. Like storm ring hits 12 times and than sure is better at breaking rebuke on the stupid rooms than like blades

Idk maybe not getting hera sucks more than not having a cast

[magic moss]

i mean you can try theory is completely different than practice so im not going to say it conclusively

[limpid coral]

Just rng into good cast tbh i think this was also an artificer ourple storm ring room 2

[magic moss]

lmfao

if you want you can try storm ring starts im not going to

[tough pasture]

Hi friends...

I can't seem to figure out how to optimize moros aspect of torches without hephaestus on sprint. Any suggestions? (Assume no hammers.)

Also, what should be the gameplay loop?

I was doing omega special > special > attack

Someone said to spray the attack all over the location and then use omega special + special. I tried this but it felt inefficient.

[magic moss]

ospecial then get close to enemies and just hold attack while the ospecial is active. Then once osepecial runs out dash away get to safety use ospecial again then rinse and repeat

[magic moss]

https://youtu.be/PwysTjDppmU?si=_ggO2pi5oJ-tKNoV heres foolish clearing moros 50F 3 times in a row if you want to watch gameplay

[tough pasture]

Ok. Yeah. I started doing this so I was getting the hang of it...

I got to chronos and died there but that was partly me fooling around and just trying to figure out the ideal gameplay loop for bosses.

[tough pasture]

Perfect. I was hoping someone would give me a vid that I can watch and glean tips from...

[magic moss]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit?usp=sharing if you want more vods/builds of every weapon

[tough pasture]

Excellent.

I saved a vercel link to my Obsidian account a few week ago. Much to my surprise, that link went inactive already when I checked it yesterday.

[magic moss]

are you talking about the fear leaderboards?

the owner recently combined h1 and h2 leaderboards into 1 so the link got changed to https://hadesglobal.vercel.app/

[tough pasture]

I see.

I'll save that to my Obsidian file.

[magic moss]

https://hades2-crossroads.vercel.app/ theres this as well for general info

[tough pasture]

Ok. Yeah, it was fear runs.

Here's the previous link that is now inactive.

https://hades2-fear-run.vercel.app/UnderworldBoard

[magic moss]

yeah that was the old link that just had hades 2 runs

[tough pasture]

In just 5 minutes of watching, I've realized that I wasn't dashing enough. melinoe floating while using torches kinda messes with my mind...

Hence I was taking too many hits that accumulated.

And torches doesn't stagger enemy...

[magic moss]

lmao the torches stagger enemies but moros is iffy since the attacks block each other

[tall notch]

If you want to stagger enemies with torches, play Mel/Eos (in my completely unbiased opinion, the latter is much more fun)

[tough pasture]

They do? Which aspect? How?

[magic moss]

every aspect and just by hitting them?

[tough pasture]

Does the daybreak stagger enemies?

[plain fossil]

The attack does

Daybreaker, regular attack and omega attack all stagger enemies

All forms of special do not

[tough pasture]

See...I was relying so heavily on the special (which didn't stagger enemies) that I just kind of assumed the same happened with the attacks. I guess I wasn't understanding what I was seeing...

And messing with skelly just doesn't cut it...

Even while watching foolish's vid, I'm having trouble understanding why torches gets rid of the 2 blue hearts so quickly.

When facing the spindles, it feels/looks like they lose the 2 hearts plus their health in the explosion. But a few instances in slow mo shows that they're losing a heart and then the next heart and then their health.

Perhaps I'm just underrating how disruptive the moros torches are...

[plain fossil]

Moros just often hits 3 times per attack

[magic moss]

ospecial hit + attack hit + explosion for 3 hits near instantly

[plain fossil]

Once from the hit, once from the omega special and once from the explosion

[tough pasture]

Yeah. I'm watching at 0.5x and I can sometimes see the 3 hits in succession. Just felt very quick at 1x speed.

[plain fossil]

Thats variable, since one or more of those doesnt always hit reliably, but largely moros is considered very good against blue shields because it does generally multihit very fast

[tough pasture]

btw, has anyone gotten the 3 nightmares from finding the fates?

that prophecy is in the list but just sitting blank for me...

I've stocked up on like 25+ nightmares for when the legendary aspects are released and 6th weapon is introduced.

[magic moss]

fates is not implemented yet

[past salmon]

Ungabunga is the one true path though

[plain fossil]

Well i guess i gotta trust the guy with the 50f mel skulls on kbm

All i know is when i try it i take 70

And when i dont i do ok

[tough pasture]

From watching the foolish stream, I realized that the omega special for moros last for 5 seconds. Interesting. It feels much quicker when playing but that's just my mind racing...

[timber pawn]

Ungabunga worked for me pretty well at 45f lol

But it probably helps to have medea practice so you can caveman safely

[tough pasture]

Also, I have a habit of doing omega special and then pressing special again to get 3 spinning orbs but I don't see foolish doing that. He just relies on the omega special and its 2 spinning orbs.

[past salmon]

Honestly I'm just ungabunga by nature

Side effect of having most of my playtime in Medea

[past salmon]

The extra special usually isn't worth it and you kinda just want to be holding attack for as much of your O-special duration as possible

This is why clean candle is the best hammer for Moros. You have more O-Attack uptime during O-Special

[tough pasture]

Can you explain what's happening with hera's hitch? I feels like it's stripping away all the blue hearts quickly though I don't understand why...

Is it the shared damage?

[past salmon]

Yeah hitch damage will eat Blue hearts

[tall notch]

Torches are good at dealing with blue hearts in general because they're a fast-hitting weapon

Eos a bit less so since daybreaker will have a harder time heading off and oneshotting things, but it's not too bad at dealing with them either

[tough pasture]

I feel that if an aspect doesn't "click" in my mind, then I struggle to use it.

Something about how eos functions annoys me...I've tried it and I was awful with it...

I got to chronos but got wiped...also struggled with the faster cereberus.

Btw, hasn't engagement ring been reworked in the new patch in that it only applies to enemies in the ring?

[tall notch]

Yeah, it was

[tired fulcrum]

It kinda now

Good if enemies decide to clump up but prepatch er was good because it let you kill spread out enemies

[tall notch]

And it also let you pretty much skip Hecate's intermissions

That was so busted not gonna lie

[tough pasture]

Yeah, figures...

Engagement ring was OP.

I remember saying that I thought SgG would issue some kind of patch soon to nerf it but some were convinced we wouldn't see another balance patch for a few more months.

Welp...

[bright token]

https://youtu.be/7MlsRVpwNe8

if i wouldn't get double tonic at the final charon shop, i'd have no mana for the staff

some of the staff's hammer power should be shifter into underused aspects. staff is the only weapon that requires mana for all aspects to work

[magic moss]

wait when did u get this?

oh like just now

[bright token]

Yeah

[magic moss]

give me build ideas to try out on the staff, no matter how crazy it is. I wanna see how far I can push this weapon, but has to be mana builds since manaless kinda zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[plain fossil]

Im telling u man, giga moonburst double moonshot apollo

[cunning pollen]

I'm partial to Aetheric myself, I never run out of magick, and in combination with double moonshot it feels pretty good

along with Death, cycling between two omegas, one of which is a magick regen by itself

Maybe with some good blitz on attack, since the special, if booned and pommed, will pop it off immediately

[glass tapir]

mirrored thrasher with hestia/poseidon mana regen, and Zeus' chain lightning boon plus the reworked boon that zaps people when you spend mana.
Or heartbreakers.

Just mashing attack and surrounding yourself with a ring of a dozen heartbreakers is good times.

[plain fossil]

On the heartbreaker note ive been enjoying charon with heartbreakers

Aph special heartbreaker deletes guardians

[vital jackal]

What is the fear level people normally use after 32 fear?

I want to at least try harder things but don't know how to continue

[plain fossil]

U can do whatever, its ur own personal choice

Theres no rewards and no particular direction, just do what ur comfortable with and be aware that each point of fear is generally harder than the one before it

I went straight from 32 to 40 but other ppl did 33, 34, 35 etc its really up to u

[past salmon]

Imo jumping to 40 is solid

[vital jackal]

Alright thanks

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1026568872117149737/1263427316810518589/image.png?ex=669a31e1&is=6698e061&hm=ce033373bc429bdcf7914339788a0d3468163928535579bf92fd9ea74252262b&

Does this look good?

Staff circe if that is relevant

[past salmon]

Imo not taking timer 3 at this point is insane

[vital jackal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1026568872117149737/1263427742930567210/image.png?ex=669a3247&is=6698e0c7&hm=8fdea6bcad70c40c311af47df34b732f550ffa758531ecd63b2c4e6b4d367841&

So this?

And I should probably switch to toula, right?

[past salmon]

Hmm it's hard to tell since I don't know the levels of dominance Commotion or blood
That seems mostly fine, although you are probably better fully specfing into dominance than having any commotion
Not positive on that though

[past salmon]

Nah Frinos is usually just better all the way up until 51F+

[vital jackal]

Dominance 1 commotion 2

Blood 2

[past salmon]

Dominance 3 commotion 0 sounds easier
You don't really want to have both on, since they make each other harder

[vital jackal]

Alright thanks I did that.

Let's try

[plain fossil]

Depends on aspect id say

[vital jackal]

Staff circe

[plain fossil]

I prefer commotion3 dominance0 on, say, than axe that has good aoe and terrible boss damage

[past salmon]

Staff kinda has terrible both until you get the cracked hammers
In which case your boss damage will usually be better than your room clear hence dominance over commotion

[past salmon]

I am also just of the mind though that commotion is always just going to waste more time than dominance ever could regardless though.
It doesn't matter how fast you can kill stuff if the waves just keep coming.
Fish rooms be like

[plain fossil]

Thats reasonable especially as new spirit surge looks like cracked boss damage with mirrored

[vital jackal]

I beat 32 fear on both axe and staff, but I don't feel as comfortable with the axe.

I kinda brute forced chronos with the axe.

[plain fossil]

Yea but the issue isnt only time its straight up dying to bosses with timer left over because u have more opportunities to fk up if the fight is 30% longer

[past salmon]

Just don't get hit imo imo

[plain fossil]

Idk how to do that

[vital jackal]

I only lost one death difiance up to chronos, which I bought again in the charon shop. Chronos then made me lose all thre and left me on 11 hp.

I assume the way to go is hestia, right?

[plain fossil]

I understand hestia is the way post-patch

Due to strike and gain both being desirable

[past salmon]

For staff? I'm of the mind that best start for staff is storm ring tbh

Hestia is maybe better at 40 ig since timer should be less of an issue

[plain fossil]

I havent tried manaless staff post patch tho

Well not manaless anymore but u get the idea

[past salmon]

It's just possessed 2.0

The exact same just click a gain

Most gains will work fine too

[plain fossil]

Thats what i figured but if im giving advice on something i didnt actually try i always say so

Bc i hate it when ppl do that to me

Write some war and peace essay saying how to do xyz and u find out 20 minutes in that its theorycraft

[past salmon]

Fair

Tbf I also haven't really done a proper post patch mirrored run but I've been watching some other people's runs and that's also what actual staff players have been saying

[plain fossil]

Yea i mean it sounds like it makes total sense

[past salmon]

Anyways I should do my Blades 50F attempt now
Possible all weapons streak ig but I'm not super hopeful lmao

[plain fossil]

Gl etc

Ppl told me mel blades is legit now

[past salmon]

I actually got it wtf lmao
Just staff left but idek what is Meta for this poo atm

[plain fossil]

Gl

[past salmon]

#h2-victory-boasting message
gg

[plain fossil]

That artemis is hilarious lmao white antler scorch strike with explosive ambush wtf

[past salmon]

my timer was poo for tart so I chucked antler on
I was maybe ok tbh but I think it was a good call

[plain fossil]

My man over here like I GOT TRUSTY MINT I CAN CLICK RANDOM BOONS

[past salmon]

I got scorch strike as my first boon

[plain fossil]

Its ok i love u anyway ❤️

[lunar wedge]

just learned that Burnt Offering can sacrifice Elementary Particles and left infusion boons behind then I take Elementary Particles again and stacked with 8 infusion boons

[steel sequoia]

not easy to do but its good

[prisma wind]

It is possible yeah, i accidentally did this on a Surface run and it was super fun
#h2-victory-boasting message

[vale gate]

whats the play with medea, its my last aspect for allspects 32

[bright token]

i tried for two runs going all in on the Ocast with momus. the problem is you kinda need apollo expanding and then a good dmg boon from the other good, that's a tall ask going with a meme build. but it hits very hard, i think it can solo bosses

[timber pawn]

Zeus special or hera attack to start, get possessed array

I think I did Zeus special and dem attack for my 32 run

[bright token]

there is a lot of boons for cast/ocast but it's very hard to collect them on high fear

[vale gate]

and just keep bombing them?

[timber pawn]

I'm not totally sure what you mean by bombing

[vale gate]

running into them

[timber pawn]

Ah, yes

[vale gate]

them* the enemies

[timber pawn]

If you haven't played much medea it might take a bit of getting used to

[vale gate]

damn

[limpid coral]

m1 m2 m1 m2 m1 m2 and try not to die

[vale gate]

alternatively i could exclusively use oatks

[limpid coral]

that would be worse tbh

[vale gate]

fgh

[timber pawn]

Approaching enemies at side angles and not straight at their face is a big part of it

[limpid coral]

100 base power really slow and you have to run in to collect them anyway

[vale gate]

ok i actually get and like how it works this shouldnt be a problem

[timber pawn]

Medea slaps tbh

[limpid coral]

see you in 20 minutes

[vale gate]

beowulf but no iframes

[tall notch]

If I were to actually play Medea I'd probably take the strength arcana and try stacking damage reduction

[green nymph]

hazard boom dealt 600 instead of listed 500 damage? maybe the perk from hex for 100 power got added?

[green nymph]

nvm I think it's from other stuff

[bright token]

for 50F skulls i wanted to do medea. i don't like vanilla skulls gameplay. i think the most important boon you can get on it is epic enemy -50% proj speed

because it hits pretty quickly to combat most melee enemies, but having to navigate around 40% speed projectiles at the same time is too much

[tired fulcrum]

Nah its mint condition/trusty

[bright token]

yeah i meant "custom boon"

mint condition is the strongest boon for high fear period

[limpid coral]

do lamia beams count as projectiles

[bright token]

lamia is medusa? i don't remember any names

[limpid coral]

the snakes

[bright token]

yeah, it's a projectile

they become almost trivial with this hermes boon

[steel sequoia]

mint condition and pin are high fear must

[limpid coral]

when are we getting pin as a boon

[spare kite]

Just add stubborn defiance

[limpid coral]

Stubborn is like 1 life per room right

[spare kite]

Ye

[bright token]

mint condition is not a must, you can solve survivability otherwise, but it requires more than 1 boon which is hard for a timed run with onions

[limpid coral]

mint is like old er tbh instead of clearing additional waves mint clears the first one

[tall notch]

Also often the first phase of a boss

[tired fulcrum]

Real

[vital ledge]

glad I'm not the only one who kept 32 fear medea skull till the end not looking forward to it

[bright token]

mint condition helps a lot with not loosing shields to chronos adds

[vale gate]

bruh i thought id get it over with quickly but i thought wrong

[bright token]

just skip all dmg and no healing vows and you should be fine. this weapon has huge dmg

[vale gate]

how do you not get hit by the bad bouldys with medea

they seem to have contact damage

[limpid coral]

bonk a wall to make ur stuff explode

[vale gate]

i feel this game has more unfair enemies than h1

[vital ledge]

also evil eye as a keepsake is the only one I didn't use on 32 or higher. it's just never useful (outside of getting your first chronos win)

[timber pawn]

The Bouldy problem is unique to medea to some degree

[stoic pecan]

Does spiteful strength empower volcanic strike? or is it purely non booned slots?

[limpid coral]

whenever im hitting a bouldy with blades and its doing that funky hit animation when its unarmored i get spooked that its gonna like fall over into me for 70

[tired fulcrum]

Only non booned attack or special

[left sentinel]

is there a keepsake to make hammer more likely? Id like to do a Mel dagger run post-patch but seems like skulking blades is super important there

[silent crow]

no but skulking isnt needed on mel daggers anyway

[left sentinel]

Ahhh ok. Any recommendations for boons that synergize well with them?

just for an attack-centric run

[silent crow]

hestia atk

[tired fulcrum]

I mean it isnt needed but it like doubles your damage

[silent crow]

isnt wicked still better

[tired fulcrum]

Wait im dumb thought they meant wicked

[tired fulcrum]

Most you can do is use icarus keepsake for a random hammer and pick hammer reward last in fields so youre more likely to be able to get it again from echo

[steel sequoia]

double up should double it

[cloud scarab]

what is considered strongest magic regen now?

Still Hera?

[steel sequoia]

hestia/hera/zeus are the best, i think still hera overall

u might have to pom it if you get a normal one tho

[stoic pecan]

its still the least work magick gain

[vale gate]

how do you make medea do non 0 damage

[steel sequoia]

zeus is better but if ur playing timer and high fear its rough

[vale gate]

its like to compensate the lack of damage they make you take extra damage in return

[uneven palm]

lol in what universe does Medea not do damage?

[vale gate]

mine apparently

[uneven palm]

Get a percentage attack, zeus special, you’re rolling

[silent crow]

it doeslike the most dmg bruh

[uneven palm]

Huntress helps if you’re not already doing that

Play like a maniac: run up close, attack, special through, repeat until dead

[vale gate]

yes and do 0 dmg

what hammers do you want

[limpid coral]

you are playing with panic on right

[vale gate]

yes

[uneven palm]

Colossus driver and Possessed Array probably

[vale gate]

i think i got it now mh

[timber pawn]

Others have already mentioned stuff but hitch on attack and Zeus on special is pretty solid

[vale gate]

how many do you load into one rush usually?

[silent crow]

1

[magic moss]

reminder we have vods available

[civic ocean]

I took a vod break yesterday and was like let's watch what other people are doing with staff and see if I'm lacking anything mechanically

Nope these ppl can just reroll

[vale gate]

i honestly thought i wouldnt need them because its just 32

[timber pawn]

One or two kinda depending on how beefy the thing I'm hitting is, usually one though

[vale gate]

i streaked like 90% of the 32s and this one took me like 5 attempts

clearly bad aspect 👍 not a problem on my end

[vital ledge]

maybe I just leave it on 16 highest win 🤔

[vale gate]

its fun

[civic ocean]

Just get sicknasty with it

[mint cedar]

is white antler any good now

[tall notch]

it can be picked if you desperately need damage, that's about it

[magic moss]

its good for speedrunning as always, locks your max hp to 30 so dont need to worry about centaur, powerwise its equal but now its locked to 1 region so theres no real big changes outside of speedrunning

[mint cedar]

Rip 30% hp. Is it actually better than the Hermes keepsake

[tall notch]

Didn't they reduce the crit chance from 40% to 30% too? Or am I imagining things

[magic moss]

think it was always 30%

[tall notch]

Looked at a vod of my patch 1 run and it was 40

[mint cedar]

What keepsakes are popular now?

I also saw that they nerfed double special on the staff

[magic moss]

for speedrunning, for casual play, for high fear?

[mint cedar]

Wha do people like using, im still going to run the egg

[magic moss]

idk god keepsakes, pin, tooth, hammer, phial

[timber pawn]

Or if you're speedrunning, I guess it depends on context

[mint cedar]

What do speedrunners use?

[civic ocean]

I think the most common high fear start is god keepsake

[timber pawn]

Usually God keepsake ya

Oceanus also God, or droplet. Fields is droplet or sometimes knucklebones

[civic ocean]

And then a couple of us I believe have won with Lion Fang start

[mint cedar]

Did the game get easier or harder since the original early release

[civic ocean]

Much easier

[mint cedar]

Really?

[civic ocean]

Well, I suppose it depends what you want to do

[mint cedar]

32 heat? Got kind of burnt out before attempting it

[civic ocean]

The base floor power level of everything in the game is way way way higher and enemies are easier

But I suppose Aspect of Momus on release is a stronger weapon aspect than anything we have in the game rn

[mint cedar]

Okay… sounds like it’s still doable I guess

[civic ocean]

32 is very doable

[magic moss]

hot take i think current charon is stronger than patch 1 momus

[mint cedar]

I’ve been confused so far by the different boon choices but that should be okay

Eris feels like she does less damage

[silent crow]

[steel sequoia]

no way lmao

[mint cedar]

There’s things I’m looking for but no longer exist haha

[civic ocean]

I think maybe that might be true for mid fear but I think if you take old momus and its hammers and add the current boons and benefits you would have a 55 clear by now

[silent crow]

cant you infinitely heal back to 50% hp with old momus too

[civic ocean]

That's not particularly useful at 55 but sure

[mint cedar]

Healing on kill is still a hammer right

[silent crow]

for the staff oatk which sucks

[steel sequoia]

if we had momus with ER it would be the most broken stuff ever, charon is very good but its not even close imo

[civic ocean]

Current Charon is definitely crazy

[mint cedar]

I wanted to farm the Scylla fight for omega damage one day and see how high I can pump it

[steel sequoia]

i mean you have to mechanically do 2 buttons, momus was just one

[civic ocean]

Also Mel Blades lookin kinda enticing to try

[mint cedar]

With the omega damage for every 250 damage taken keepsake

[civic ocean]

I need a project to stream nobody likes watching me die to erebus 200 times a stream

So maybe get mel blades and staff to 50 and pers and charon too

[tired fulcrum]

Its not every 250 it just activates when you have 250 or higher damage taken

[cloud scarab]

anyone else still holding on to their > 30 Arcana Cards? 😄

[mint cedar]

Has it always been like that

[spare kite]

Yes

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah

[mint cedar]

Aww………

[steel sequoia]

ive made momus 32f when i was horrible. the game is pretty much easier now but i think charon hasnt reached the same lvl

[mint cedar]

I thought you could farm like 30k damage or something and then one shot chronos with an omega attack or something

[tired fulcrum]

Charon requires little bit more skill than just spamming double moonshot from the corner of the room

[steel sequoia]

well i killed chrono p2 with 2 pan shots

[cloud scarab]

I don't want to give up the 33 arcana points 😄

[tired fulcrum]

Though ig you could just do born gain lightning lance and spam omega special from the corner of the room

[silent crow]

from my experience u dont even need the cast dmg for normal enemies you can just sit in the cast with lucid from long range and enemies will die to the ospecial

[tired fulcrum]

140 base damage that can hit the same enemy twice moment especially with giga cleaver

[silent crow]

apollo special lets you double hit without hammer rng too

[steel sequoia]

i dont think they should nerf it, i think circe needs some buffs and than all weaps are ok

[silent crow]

i generally dont like charon its really one note

[steel sequoia]

my fav aspect than persephone and eos

cool is one of each weap

[silent crow]

it probably needs nerfs

[vale gate]

are echos dds weaker than regular?

[steel sequoia]

could have nerfs but its not breaking the game, is just the best weap

[vale gate]

it says and less, and less

[silent crow]

it is breaking the game a little

[steel sequoia]

yes, they get weaker

[tired fulcrum]

Well the first one is stronger

[vale gate]

so its 50% 40% 30% or ssmth?

[tired fulcrum]

Idk how much they decrease when you get multiple

[vale gate]

hm

[silent crow]

pointless mechanic

[civic ocean]

How is it pointleas

It fits echo's design perfectly

[tired fulcrum]

Anyways echo is even more op than patty because she actually shows up consistently

[steel sequoia]

its just disagree day with saad today?

[silent crow]

idk i never notice how they get weaker and i dont know how much they get weaker either so it js means nothing to me

[vale gate]

i had 3 runs in a row where nem booted her out

[silent crow]

i wonder if they'll remove that mechanic

[steel sequoia]

i dont think they will rework anything at this point, they prolly working on the major update

[tired fulcrum]

They should just make it like narc where theyre both in the room and nem just talks

[vale gate]

if enough people thumbs up it and report it probably

[civic ocean]

That doesn't sound like the mechanic's problem?

[steel sequoia]

idk, its bad but its funny she kidnapping echo

nem is such a good char, not like eris

[silent crow]

feel like it should be more noticeable or have more flavor idk

[tired fulcrum]

I mean tbh it should tell you how much weaker they get

[silent crow]

yeahh

[civic ocean]

It should tell you a lot of the mechanics yeah but the game's relatively poor UI/UX isn't limited to echo specifically

[silent crow]

like if chronos is eating my DD's im not paying attention to my hp bar to see how much echo's replacements actually heal

[silent crow]

thats fair

[civic ocean]

Sure you haven't noticed it but I would wager that people have died because of it

[silent crow]

maybe so but i dont think those ppl were like "ahh damn echos dd's are weak"

[mint cedar]

Does echo still have the previous reward doubler/previous night random

[civic ocean]

Yep

[silent crow]

ya she didnt get changed at all

[mint cedar]

Cool

[silent crow]

other than the cool new icons i guess

[mint cedar]

I like that the keepsakes have distinct icons now

[silent crow]

piggy

[mint cedar]

How much food can Artemis give you?

[silent crow]

think she keeps giving food until you heal to non criticla health

[limpid coral]

i posted in feedback once about artemis doing food with scars 3 wonder if theyll do anything about that

[vale gate]

dont think they will

btw how do u make than axe do dmg?

[limpid coral]

storm ring

[vale gate]

[civic ocean]

Not sure it's necessary to change that since there really isn't any time pressure in arty rooms

[limpid coral]

there isn't but it does kinda break the flow a bit

[civic ocean]

I mean it also would be helpful for her to not do that

But it's a minor thing

[vale gate]

i dont understand why she gives you food at all

[limpid coral]

cause she a homie

[vale gate]

good enough

[civic ocean]

To patch you up, if you don't have scars on its actually a lot of healing iirc

[mint cedar]

The healing was quite helpful

[civic ocean]

If you wanna beat 32 I'd recommend going scars 3 for sure

[silent crow]

how is preserved hope still bugged 😭 😭 😭

[civic ocean]

Strongly considering going Frinos at 55 for this reason

[silent crow]

frinos at 55 seems viable with the suffering nerf ngl

[civic ocean]

It's a consideration

[silent crow]

the only thing you die in 1 hit to in erebus is lurker

[civic ocean]

The main thing though is that Toula is a pretty substantial damage source early on

[limpid coral]

toula games

[mint cedar]

what's scars

[civic ocean]

Like if you get 2 Lurkers on floor 2 you gotta tap the cat

[spare kite]

Less healing vow

[mint cedar]

oh

and run armor or something?

[limpid coral]

what is running armor

[civic ocean]

The healing you get from increasing your max hp isn't reduced at all

[mint cedar]

the sash?

[mint cedar]

would you then run the moros keepsake?