h2-builds-and-combat

[magic moss]

yeah drop artificer and furies/huntress for boatman

[bleak night]

Kinda far away atm though so

[magic moss]

the thing i will say tho is timer3 is going to be really rough

might need medea in city to make it past poly

[bleak night]

I've tried and honestly I never really had a problem so far with timer yet by using the guide and ensuring I never pick red rooms

Orange ones are fine as well, and I make it to Poly usually at 4 minutes or 4min15

[magic moss]

thats actually kinda neat then ive never tried so idk

[bleak night]

He does a lot of damage, but his health is surprisingly really low

The main issue in Ephyra is the miniboss is disgustingly hard to fight

He blocks everything, sometimes even the ghosts in the Pylon

[magic moss]

oh right that guy eugh

[civic ocean]

he's got the shield from hades 1 for sure

[bleak night]

Might just be us being unfamiliar, but it's definitely not fun to fight something that blocks that much

No point in feedbacking it yet atm since the whole experience isn't complete

[magic moss]

once surface fully releases im prob just gonna save state and fight him over and over again just to learn his attack patterns

OH GOD IMAGINE BLADES FIGHTING POLY I JUST HAD A HORRIBLE REALIZATION

[bleak night]

I have Poly figured out already to some degree

[civic ocean]

isnt poly just like kill him he squishy

[bleak night]

His playstyle is very adaptive, meaning he'll change depending on what distance you fight him in

If you stay away, the sheep that block projectiles like Frinos will spawn, he'll also start kicking waves at you a lot more and tossing rocks

[magic moss]

nah i hate poly >:( he counters my playstyle

[bleak night]

If you're close, he does none of the above, but he creates more shockwaves underfoot and jumps

I found that the best way to deal with him is to split between, that is if you're going for no damage

The sheep that block are useless in melee combat and the rocks he throw are too slow to hit you in that same range

On Blades though, Artemis would probs have a field day and Pan would be able to split between the playstyle easily. Mel would suck though

[vale gate]

is old grudge worth it from hades

[magic moss]

not really

you skip p1p1 which is the easiest phase of chronos anyways

[vale gate]

it would be nice if acted like a h1 summon

[magic moss]

Deep Dissent is the best option, followed by Howling Soul. Last Gasp is fine, Old Grudge and Life Tax are meh at best, and Unseen Ire I have yet to see someone get real value out of it

[bleak night]

oh btw, did you upload that vid you wanted reviewed ? Forgot to ask about it

[vale gate]

oh yea i got 2

[civic ocean]

its like fine

like free dmg is good its just that its the easiest dmg to hit Chronos with

[plain fossil]

Im generally in the school of if i dont get deep dissent or (if i need it) howling soul then hades is negative value

[magic moss]

you can also send it to me if u want and ill check it out in the morning

[vale gate]

i can also just send it here

[vale gate]

what would want howling soul?

[magic moss]

its just good, its a ranged cast that does decent damage and the cast follows movement

[bleak night]

Most things would want it since it ensures Chronos can't go anywhere when he dashes

[magic moss]

im actually debating about starting to save a reroll for dad since the chance i get either howling or dissent with a reroll is pretty high

[past salmon]

I kind of hate howling soul if I'm not playing Persephone

Tbh I hate ranged casts apart from Lightning lance

[bleak night]

Some of his boons need buffs

the one that turns you invisible has too long of a cooldown

[magic moss]

Unseen Ire gives like 0 value, Life Tax is mediocre at best, Old Grudge skips the easiest phase, and Last Gasp is additive damage

outside of howling and dissent, hes kinda trash

[bleak night]

Life Tax I can see being useful in lower fear though

[past salmon]

Make LT work through scars and yeh I'll click it sometimes

[bleak night]

I think it should be permanent lifesteal every few hits instead of having a limit

Just tweak the numbers so it isn't overpowered

[bleak night]

honestly, game just needs more options for Scars. That Chaos curse should maybe work at a reduced capacity even at Scars 3

otherwise it just shouldn't be offered at all

[magic moss]

like you heal 5 flat hp every 1000 damage dealt or smthing

[vale gate]

whats LT

[magic moss]

life tax

[bleak night]

Life Tax I think

[vale gate]

uh whats life tax

[bleak night]

https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Hades/Boons

[vale gate]

ah

[magic moss]

Hades boon heal 1% of dmg dealt cap at 100 hp restored

[vale gate]

oh that one

[bleak night]

I'd honestly be down if he had a boon that made you deal less damage at the cost of lifesteal

Survivability in exchange for dps

[bleak night]

made you have lifesteal at the cost of dealing less damage* might be better worded

[magic moss]

that actually sounds kinda nice or since its called life tax make it work sinilar to Phoenix skin and lose max hp but get permanent lifesteal

[bleak night]

that or slowly lose HP every second but you have lifesteal. If you keep playing offensively, it should outpace the decaying HP

because at that point you're going to almost always be in a fight save the endshop

either way, Life Tax isn't the main issue for me. It's Last Gasp and Unseen Ire

[magic moss]

like lose 2% hp per second but lifesteal 4% or smthing

[magic moss]

if gasp was global multiplicative dmg its fine, ire needs massive buffs tho

[bleak night]

tbh I just want there to be a use for all those ingredients we have. Maybe cook some food and have it give you bonuses before you leave like a lot of RPGs do

[magic moss]

I love my ash soup with psyche broth and a side of poppies and mandrakes

[bleak night]

Watch me use 8 cloves of garlic and deal 400% more damage to the vampire miniboss in Fields

otherwise it doesn't do much else lol

[plain fossil]

I get the sentiment but im not in favour of anything that increases pre-run micromanagement

Maybe once they give us arcana loadouts i'll be less annoyed before every run lul

[bleak night]

What if the kitchen is a room you can enter during a run

and it gives you the bonuses in there

[plain fossil]

If it pauses timer im in

[bleak night]

That's the new NPC, a stove

You gift it nectar like Bouldy, but you also have to cook your own food in order to get the bonuses

[vale gate]

if i buy an ix in tart will i get a gate?

[past salmon]

Yeh

You can do that if you really want to fight Chronos with a curse for some reason

[vale gate]

😭

[vale gate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg8XTCdY6GE @bleak night

[bleak night]

I'll give it a lookie

[bleak night]

Not entirely sure about running Pin that early with all DDs left, I feel you could have gotten more boons you wanted with keepsakes before you did had you played it a bit more carefully since you had Apollo attack anyway. Main issue is of course your Chronos fight, make sure to remember that everything can be blocked except for the space-time tears, the instakills and the timefields

Don't need to dodge them if you can tap a button to block, for the most part

Also respect the distance of the vacuum thingie, you got damaged by it about 7 times

You can manage to not get hit by it even without Apollo attack, just stay behind with a bit of distance

[carmine lagoon]

Shouldn’t you run pin to try and save DD’s for the chronos fight? Or should you just high roll and assume Echo gives Survive?

[past salmon]

Pin in oceanus is kinda ehhh imo
I'd much rather chuck on a god or smth

[bleak night]

I usually don't really need Pin in Oceanus, even if I'm 2 down

I only start running it in Fields

[past salmon]

tbh the rooms that kill you in Oceanus make you die regardless of pin
Because you lose DD's in Oceanus to the rooms that last 19 years

[carmine lagoon]

Fair enough

[past salmon]

Spindle swarm room

[bleak night]

Pinheads should just all spawn at the same time

[narrow acorn]

Fun fact that I just discovered, if you have Apollo's legendary and are using Aspect of Charon axe, you can pop a cast, omega special, and pop a second cast in between the first and second omega special that is fired. It makes for crazy fast omega cast damage.

[bleak night]

idc if I fight 60 at once, I just want them all to come out

[vale gate]

apart from the chronos fight, what do you think about the decision making and general combat?

[past salmon]

same tho

[bleak night]

Yeah, it's nice for Lucid Gain as well

[carmine lagoon]

What I hate most is the rooms with multiple waves of the water serpent enemies, annihilates my timer :(

[narrow acorn]

yeah lucid gain has become my favorite magic recharge boon

[past salmon]

tbh they don't seem to be as bad to me anymore
Atleast they don't spawn revs
I find the never ending pinhead rooms to be worse for timer

[carmine lagoon]

And then get giga cleaver and cast 4 times total

[narrow acorn]

the fact that you can get it while actively channeling helps a lot of aspects

yeah I've been trying a couple times to get both giga cleaver and apollo's leggo

[bleak night]

You can reroll the room next to the endshop in Erebus once or twice to see if you can get what you want from it without needing to buy anything from the Endshop, makes sure you have money to buy a new DD or buy something else from Oceanus' midshop

[narrow acorn]

no luck yet

[bleak night]

iirc that doesn't work together atm

[past salmon]

This is why I've been running boatman more often then Orig recently actually
The more rerolls +being able to buy from first midshop generally ends with me having a build strong enough to deal with no Orig anyway

[narrow acorn]

oh really? that's a shame

[bleak night]

like, it just fires twice still, but it costs 65 instead

[narrow acorn]

oh boo. Not that the magic cost matters that much with lucid gain lmao.

[bleak night]

Yeah, though when surface is fully out we won't need to make the distinction, since Artificer is kinda bad up there

[past salmon]

yeh defs

[carmine lagoon]

Boatman instead of artificer and what else?

[past salmon]

like furies or smth

I think furies is pretty bad

[carmine lagoon]

Isn’t furies almost as good as origination (30% vs 50%) without the requirement?

[narrow acorn]

Furies is great for cast builds because the furies boosts the cast damage.

[past salmon]

yes but sometimes I forgor the cast button exists

[carmine lagoon]

Like on Charon though

[past salmon]

[past salmon]

Charon can run anything and just win 😭

[bleak night]

I'll probs turn off the 1-cost cards for surface runs because I can't dodge anything for the life of me up there

[narrow acorn]

furies is usually just a free +30% damage for most builds lmao

[vale gate]

is that all? i still dont feel like i got a good idea of what i should be looking for from each god so atp im just taking boons as i see them

[carmine lagoon]

Mynt should I turn off artificer and a one-cost card for Strength? Or is artificer too strong to turn off in exchange for late-run dr?

[past salmon]

ok I should get this 50F 3 weps streak done so I have a good video to show people for higher fears general strategy

[past salmon]

imo arti is way way better than strength

[vale gate]

stream

[bleak night]

probs better to just not try to walk into stuff too much if you can help it, since you have proper range when swinging the Axe. When being swarmed by melee enemies, use your cast defensively and walk to the other side of it. Being on one side still allows your swings to reach the other side, even without Apollo

[bleak night]

I usually turn off other things when running Strength

[carmine lagoon]

Like what? Everything else seems pretty necessary

[vale gate]

i have another 32 run with one of the staffs, shall i share?

[past salmon]

Idk I just don't run strength
I feel you would take off orig for strength before arti tho

[carmine lagoon]

Origination maybe? Strength is same damage, just activates later on in the run if you think about it

[past salmon]

Imo unless Ur going hard into dr stacking strength isn't worth it

[plain fossil]

i dont think turning off artificer is generally a good idea this patch

[bleak night]

I'm kinda not too into running Strength outside of Medea, Mel Blades and Artemis nowadays

[plain fossil]

it is good on blades tho

[past salmon]

you can do the psycho thing ig and take off a reroll card for strength but please don't

[plain fossil]

hey guys is it ever worth clicking double up early

[bleak night]

Chinese Fisherman 0 reroll build

[plain fossil]

i have an early poseidon reward with no use for the core boons other than maybe the cast and i got purple double up against tidal ring and flood control

idk why i didnt roll over the poseidon its kinda not a great god if u cant use the strike or flourish, but here i am

[past salmon]

idk maybe its ok

[plain fossil]

i will try

[bleak night]

It has its uses with Double Up or Bounty

[past salmon]

double up makes me lose a lot of time though

[plain fossil]

i just never click double up so i wanted to poll the internet

at least, never in erebus

[bleak night]

Bounty is honestly preferable most of the time to Double Up in high fear, 100% chance to get more money + artificing the ashes/psyche it drops

[plain fossil]

ok ok but now the bounty is gonna be insane trust

[plain fossil]

yea ok i died to timer because double up doesnt give damage

[bleak night]

yep lol

Bounty at least has a chance to turn the artifice'd items into boons, health or gold

[past salmon]

But also just don't click Poseidon

[plain fossil]

ssshhh

[past salmon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1261609677964312707/20240713190602_1.jpg?ex=66939512&is=66924392&hm=861f89103d5e825791ddc26176068a1be23442acaad57ec56cc0e9f61b100d88&
Yeah umm
This is fine

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1261611938887110697/20240713191513_1.jpg?ex=6693972d&is=669245ad&hm=716c46f44ea1f1b09a5ffcf46b324985790cc7d41f09ce458c4f43b79ccacbf4&
BRO LOL

[plain fossil]

LULW

i swear u get nemesis echo 10 times more than everybody else in this discord put together

[past salmon]

this is the most cooked rng run of all time lmao
Boons r ok everything else has sucked

I died Chronos P2.2

[past salmon]

I do feel like I see her too often lmao

[surreal hazel]

Remind me, is a moros detonation an attack or a special?

[drowsy kraken]

the attack detonates if thats what you mean

[surreal hazel]

and thus it benefits from attack boons rather than specials?

Just wondering where the focus is

like, taking Volcanic Flourish doesn't hurt the damage potential of the detonations

[drowsy kraken]

I was trying to use my omega specials as much as possible because I had a heroic scorch special and it was second last on the damage tier if that tells you anything lol. Scorch itself did more damage than the special

[past salmon]

yeh its attacks

[surreal hazel]

alrighty

hrm

moros omega attacks explode with more power iirc, I guess they're also tagged as omega attacks for whenever that matters

[past salmon]

well uhh actually
Interestingly enough
While O-Attack explosions do more damage
For the likes of Hearth gain and huntress, they count as regular attacks

[surreal hazel]

interesting

Heath gain is already really good on Mel torches...

[tender anvil]

Just realized Chronos’ “vacuum” attack eats Winter’s Coat/Snow Queen

[drowsy kraken]

Once again I have to be a shooter for hearth gain bc on any torch aspect that mana regen is net-positive

[tender anvil]

Interesting Mel Skull tech - movement speed bonuses/penalties affect recoil. Practical application - Ignited Ichor (charon well item) eliminates recoil for 8 encounters, buy it if you see it.

[past salmon]

YEP
lmao its so funny with Chaos curse

[tender anvil]

That chaos curse is a paaaaain on skulls

[past salmon]

I had a run with a massive sprint penalty from Chaos and I literally got launced like a rocket everytime I shot lmao

[tender anvil]

Like, you get both huge recoil and slow sprint, which makes it impossible to pick up your skulls while not getting hit

But, on a movement speed increase, recoil is eliminated, which makes the gameplay much smoother

[carmine lagoon]

I wonder, how fast can you boost with skulls recoil and fetching array?

[split igloo]

question for the gamers please, is the toad the only pet right now?

[plain fossil]

no

[split igloo]

i haven't seen others and am not sure how to dismiss it or whatever is involved there

[bright token]

there is a cat in certain spots in the run you have to interact with

[split igloo]

how does aspect of persephone work? extend cast by doing special damage in the cast?

[plain fossil]

any damage you do with your cast charges up your omega special

persephone omega special is driveable and spams projectiles everywhere

[split igloo]

gotcha thanks

[untold thorn]

Haephaestus 'blast on 1 second sprint' ability is awesome

[tall notch]

It's my least liked sprint, I love seeing how differently we all approach the game lol

[untold thorn]

I had a great run with it, boosted it to lv 7 and was absolutely chunking enemies down. Main reason I lost that run was because I was using daggers and the swarming skulls in final area were hard to deal with due to my lack of AoE

Gonna try to get the setup again but with axe this time

[tall notch]

For me, the thing putting me off the sprint is that 1 sec chargeup time and costing mana. On manaless weapons I don't want to invest in regen to keep using the sprint and on mana weapons I don't want to lose the ability to regen while I'm sprinting

It's just been awkward for me to build around

[untold thorn]

it took some working around, and I definitely took hits I wouldn't normally take due to having to consider the windup time

[tall notch]

If you liked Heph sprint, I think you'd enjoy Poseidon/Zeus sprints too

[plain fossil]

Zeus sprint does deal pretty decent single target

In general i cant deal with sprint builds on kbm the directional control isnt precise enough

[silent crow]

frr

[carmine lagoon]

Apollo or Hera cast on 50F Charon?

Apollo consistently clears rebuke on one enemy, whereas Hera has potential to clear it on all enemies spawning (but not first wave)

[magic moss]

they equally good

hera cast is good since you still have option for apollo special but it could get locked out so hera special is better since hitch and %dmg boon. Apollo cast is just good on charon in general

[carmine lagoon]

So far I’ve got this ranking:
Dem > heph (crutch) > aphro > Apollo (if not banished cast) > hera > hestia > zeus > pos

[magic moss]

for cast?

[carmine lagoon]

Yeah, besides heph

And just in general for having them in god pool

[magic moss]

Apollo > Hera > Heph > Dem > Aphro > Pos/Zeus/Hestia

[carmine lagoon]

Dem that low? Wb gale force and sprint

Is it bc dem bad special?

[magic moss]

its good but charon should optimally just be doing cast ospecials on repeat

Apollo for lucid ofc, Hera because hitch is broken, Heph because heph

Demeter isn't bad, its just lower on the list because the other 3 are just so good

[carmine lagoon]

This is assuming I alr have lucid btw

[magic moss]

ohhhhhhhhhh

ok yeah apollo then prob moves down to where dem is and everything else gets shifted over

[carmine lagoon]

Yeah no lucid gain at 50F is just death to time inevitably

(At least for me at my skill)

[plain fossil]

God order doesnt matter a ton anyway right

U take ur apollo cast and then u just take what ur given largely

The only real opportunities u have to control ur god comp are at miniboss and with a2 keepsake

So other than ur top 3 its just all sort of yea these gods exist

[carmine lagoon]

Yeah I made this to think what if 2 doors with gods on them, one mini boss one not

[plain fossil]

And its more about filling build holes

[carmine lagoon]

Do I start rolling mini boss basically

[plain fossil]

Then u take the miniboss because its 20 seconds faster lul

[carmine lagoon]

Mmm true, but what if 2 miniboss doors hmmmm

[plain fossil]

Fwiw with 50 charon i reroll poseidon always and usually keep other gods

Reroll order changes pretty wildly depending on whether u have a cast or special boon alrdy

[carmine lagoon]

Yeah true

Though with onion and no boatman I often have neither 🫠

[plain fossil]

Like hestia is useless if u alrdy have a cast boon but hestia cast is very good so u can fish for it if u get a hestia

[carmine lagoon]

So it’s better to save rerolls for boons over miniboss doors?

Also, how hard should I reset? Like if chamber 2 isn’t a major reward (which I can roll into Apollo), do I just try a new seed?

Given I have major deadline issues

[magic moss]

r3 is typically where major boon first spawns so dont reset for r2 major. If you dont get god boon in 3 rerolls then its still playable once you have lucid but its gonna be harder. Otherwise save rerolls for miniboss for Hera or Heph and just play with whatever you get from artificer. On major boon rooms after r3, aim for health (and poms but only if you have a special boon)

[carmine lagoon]

Do I ever roll non-miniboss doors besides for Apollo in room 2/3?

[magic moss]

r2/3 you always roll for apollo unless you arent playing with his keepsake in which case why?

[carmine lagoon]

Yes I know, but besides those cases, do I ever use my rolls on non-miniboss doors?

[magic moss]

you could if you want on major doors that isnt a god door

[carmine lagoon]

Shouldn’t I save them for minibosses tho esp if I don’t have Boatman on

[magic moss]

"you could if you want" is what i said but yeah typically save some for miniboss

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1261717938034053180/image.png?ex=6693f9e6&is=6692a866&hm=d7b13a23d21aa7d9e15c32f055158643ed3cdf121b40c777e1a5977357178b30& average moros erebus

[timber pawn]

Zooming

[civic ocean]

I reroll doors a lot yeah, just understanding what each roll is worth and what your build can gain in terms of incremental advantage is the important part and we can't walk you through each moment

Like say for example on Charon if I'm at the door to location 12 and I haven't gotten a hammer I'll spend 1-2 rolls to try and get one on the free floor, or 1-2 rerolls in Fields to try and hit hammer if it's not shown after my fields encounters

[tall notch]

You really want to have something that enables your weapon to do damage by chamber 4 (elites start spawning in chamber 4)

So on the major reward door before room 2/3, I'll reroll to get the god I was keepsaking for or a hammer if the weapon benefits from them a lot

[carmine lagoon]

I see, ty

[civic ocean]

Elites fill my nightmares now

[limpid coral]

wait u can't block hecates lunar ray? dam

[magic moss]

nope

[civic ocean]

Does anyone else feel like Selene describes the Lunar Ray like a flight attendant

"I am pleased to inform you that once again you are flying on Lunar Ray airlines"

[calm plover]

Yes and I also chuckle every time I hear her say ‘Mooooon Waterrrr’

[trim thistle]

did they slow down chronos significantly? decided to check out boons patch and on 40% vow speed he feels like normal speed

or am i cooked

[magic moss]

brainrot frfr

[trim thistle]

i swear hes slower

the triple attack move isnt cancer fast

[magic moss]

play fury0 and fight chronos

he actually moves at a snails pace after playing fury2 for so long

[trim thistle]

i played fury2 the second i unlocked the ability too, so i can get high fear runs, im scared to do fury 0

[magic moss]

i guarantee you will get hit more often in guardian fights at fury0, it messes with your timing so hard

also whats your highest fear so far? just curious

[trim thistle]

somewhere around mid 40s, but that was before boon patch

[magic moss]

oooo ok 50F soon?

[trim thistle]

ppl be doing 50 fear? with what aspects

[magic moss]

every aspect has been cleared at 50F

[trim thistle]

oh damn

[magic moss]

yeah it got decently easier this patch

hestia got buffed, Engagement ring is kinda broken, people got better, etc

[tall notch]

I think they might have been messing with Chronos' attack patterns during at least one of the patches?

So I don't think you are seeing things @trim thistle

[trail acorn]

today i learned you can use that selene resurrect thing during scylla's boss battle to resurrect her bandmates. life is good

[muted laurel]

Lmaooo is there a special dialogue for that?

Thats funny as hell hahaha

[trail acorn]

she basically curses them the same way that she does when you slay her bandmates. it was super funny LMAO

"dammit roxie!"

[dense elk]

How do y'all deal with Polyphemus with a melee weapon? There are just so many close up damage sources

I always have to sacrifice like 3 death defiances to beat him at high heat (32)

[tired fulcrum]

Just dash through his waves and be ready to dash when he starts his jump

[sage flame]

and stay in front of him when he does the stomp walk attack that spawns the zombies

its much easier

[tired fulcrum]

https://imgur.com/a/Pv0Q0YP like example

https://imgur.com/a/NCPTsaN

[dense elk]

Ahh, guardian damage blocking arcane is a pretty good idea

[tired fulcrum]

you should be running that on both routes

[dense elk]

And then just i-framing his jump damage?

[tired fulcrum]

mostly for getting out of the way and dashing through the rings

[dense elk]

Cool cool, I'm not up to speed on optimal picks, just fighting for the skelly statue, thanks for the examples, really appreciated

[carmine lagoon]

for 50F charon, if i finish room 3 by 1:45+, do i just reset seeds until i get room 2 major reward? i feel like im just dead to time otherwise.

[past salmon]

1:45 seems doable assuming you get a free room or two
Do you want to VC at all?

[carmine lagoon]

i would like to, but i am absolutely furious rn and dont trust myself with human interaction for now, sorry lmao

[past salmon]

all g lol

[carmine lagoon]

the one run that i dont kill it immediately (i.e. take major hits in first 2 rooms), im at 1:34 remaining in chamber 6 (in shop, 1 miniboss to go), is it over

[past salmon]

yeh thats feeling pretty joever

[carmine lagoon]

i hate this game sm at 50f

i clear room 3 at 2 mins, how am i even meant to progress forward

i should go back to more calm games, like radiant absrad

[past salmon]

Try abandon runs instead its uhh
So very fun

[carmine lagoon]

god orphans are so lucky they arent in my vicinity right now

https://tenor.com/view/el-macho-elmacho-gif-26711503

^ me after getting sniped by a shark on my LIKE 9TH RESET OF THE SAME. SEED.

screw getting out of erebus i gotta get out of room THREE

;-;

[prisma wind]

Which gods goes well with the Axe? (Aspect of Melinoë)
I want to try something else than Aphrodite but i don't know what to take

[tall notch]

Hera
Hera
Hera

Those are the best

[prisma wind]

Hera noted

[silent crow]

apollo is also good

apollo must be best in slot for mel axe atk bc the 54f clear used apollo atk

[tall notch]

On special, Zeus and Heph can be both useful as you'll be using your specials as a block and sometimes they'll proc some extra damage

[silent crow]

usually u want smth else from heph if u cna help it tho

isnt mel axe on high fear js highroll for dash hammer

[tall notch]

Rapid slash is viable too

[silent crow]

thats tru

[tall notch]

I like the playstyle without the dash hammer more, it's safer

But the damage of doubled dash-strikes is very high yeah

[silent crow]

i like chaining dash atks its a fun tech

[vale gate]

are there 5 or 6 tart encounter?s

[polar frigate]

ive been trying to get 24f with eros lately, and idk if i'm doing something wrong lol, ive been going with dem atk, wedding ring and zeus special for the duo with dem, do you guys think i should try something else ?

[silent crow]

u mean eos?

[polar frigate]

yeh sorry lmao

[silent crow]

eos wants hera attack and unseen arcana

thats basically the entire build, then you js try to stack other dps to kill bosses (i.e. zeus storm ring)

[vale gate]

can you charge your hex while using it?

[silent crow]

no they patched it out last patch

[vale gate]

oof

[polar frigate]

ill give it a try tysm !

[vale gate]

bruh if you buy a well item then reroll, you only get 2 options?

[silent crow]

yep lol

[vale gate]

smh

[prisma wind]

Well, i tried it and it was very fun

[lethal rune]

how are people building aspect of medea on the skull i have no idea what gods are good

id assume aphro attack since youre gonna be face slamming enemies for explosions

[magic moss]

hera attack, zeus special, dem/hera cast, no gain really. needed, sprint is fine, HEPH HEPH HEPH support

if you have ER then aphro atk is good

[lethal rune]

sorry what is ER?

[magic moss]

Engagement ring, hera’s cast

[timber pawn]

If you're at low fear heph isn't super necessary, you can practice a bit and learn how to not eat damage with medea

[uneven palm]

Someone did 54f?????

[plain fossil]

145 first 3 rooms is pretty slow for 50f charon attempts i used to give up at 130

Do u have a video of an attempt of those 3 rooms

[uneven palm]

lol of course it was Mynt. hot dang

[past salmon]

giving up at 1:30 is absurd lol

[magic moss]

1:45 r3 is when i deem a run on the slow end and just play with no regards to safety

1:30 is definitely playable and if anything a decent pace

[plain fossil]

What can i say i give up a lot

Hippos in first room usually reset as well

[limpid coral]

Every 10 seconds or so u go over time in erebus is one life so just don't get crit

[fair narwhal]

Y’all look at the clock when u play?

[magic moss]

kinda not really

[wary pike]

Does anyone know how I can add damage to the balloons on the Aspect of Moros for the flame staves? The balloons and their damage seem like a cool concept, but right now they are just getting in my way and aren't doing any damage when they explode. It would be cool if they also provided a buffer for damage when they're out.

[past salmon]

I look at both clock and room count at midshop Erebus.
Otherwise I'm only rlly looking at the ends of areas

[magic moss]

balloons?

[past salmon]

Moros has like the highest damage in the game

Click huntress
Click hearth gain
?????
Profit

[magic moss]

try using your omega special first and then start firing your attacks. Moros is meant to be a close ranged weapon

[fair narwhal]

I just be looking at all the boons I cannot afford with out my trusty boatman

[wary pike]

Yeah, right now it's saying that my blast damage for the balloons is "+0%" when they explode.

[past salmon]

This is why Boatman is the one true path to victory

[past salmon]

They still do damage Ur just not getting any bonus

That will go up if you LVL up the aspect

[magic moss]

have you unlocked nightmares?

[meager bramble]

Plus 0% - i.e. if you upgrade the aspect more they'll get bonus damage on top of what they already do

[vale gate]

what exactly does air quality do?

[plain fossil]

Oh that just means they dont get extra damage from aspect upgrade yet

[wary pike]

Ohhhh, okay. Thank you!

[plain fossil]

You need to upgrade it with nightmare if you want that bonus

[past salmon]

Makes any hit of damage ever that you deal do at minimum 30 damage

[wary pike]

Nightmare?

[vale gate]

does it force any instance of damage to have a min 30 dmg or only direct strikes

[silent crow]

all dmg

[past salmon]

All

[vale gate]

ah

[past salmon]

This is including scorch btw

[silent crow]

aq staff special

[vale gate]

wait

does scorch do 1 dmg per tick

[past salmon]

I can't remember how it fully works but AQ makes scorch do like ~120 dps

[plain fossil]

It does like 12/tick now

[past salmon]

Nah but it ticks more than once per secons

[plain fossil]

Ticks about 6/second, give or take

[vale gate]

so aq is like x3 dps? *on scortch

[past salmon]

Roughly ~

[plain fossil]

From 80 to 180ish so 2 and a bit

[vale gate]

thats so cool

[silent crow]

pyro technique stascks on aq right

[wary pike]

So... add scorch to the flame staves with aspect of moros = GOATed?

[past salmon]

Does Pyro increase the tickrate or the DMG per tick

[timber pawn]

Afaik it was dmg per tick

[silent crow]

says it makes it do dmg fsater but idkwhat that actually means

[timber pawn]

Unless they changed the logic

[past salmon]

[timber pawn]

Yeh unlucky

[civic ocean]

Opposite

PT consumes more scorch damage per tick, so it is worse with air quality

It's also a pretty lame boon for that reason, as well, very niche usage

[silent crow]

how is it niche

[silver oriole]

fellas the game has changed since i last played
is new momus still good?

i mean on paper it sounds very strong still lol

[civic ocean]

its the same dmg, like it doesn't actually do anything unless you can outpace it which is very hard to do

[silent crow]

not super hard to outpace it

[civic ocean]

ok

[silent crow]

im more surprised it isnt mandatory on scorch builds tbh

80 dps was enough all along huh

[magic moss]

its the best of the current staffs but is decently bad in terms of overall power level across all aspects

[silver oriole]

any recommendations on boons to go for? saw that those got changed around a bit as well

[magic moss]

hera cast is top1 boon in the game and is great on staff, hera atk is the best also for staff imo right now, but apollo atk, high rarity dem atk, pos and hestia attack is good on manaless but bad for mana builds, and zeus/heph/aphro arent the greatest for mana momus. For specials, Heph special is BIS and just use it occasionally, but everything else can work. The staff special overall is just bad right now.

[vale gate]

do core boons have higher priority when boons are offered

[magic moss]

if you have no core boons then 2/3 options are always core

i think you need at least 2 core boons before you can get 3 options of non core

[vale gate]

[glad haven]

Any advice for boons/vows for a 24 fear dagger run for someone who hates the timer? I've tried pan+poseidon special already and it hasn't worked too well

[silent crow]

start engagement ring from hera

using normal attacjs is faster than trying to use pan btw

[plain fossil]

U dont really need to click timer for 24

[drowsy kraken]

just don't do bitterness or suffering, and I prolly wouldnt mix revenants with blue hearts early on (although without any timer on it might not be as big of a deal). Wandering and arrogance are pretty easy

For boons I think basically any combination of aphrodite/demeter/hera/hestia will do you well, and if you have stronger enemies/more enemy health maybe hephestus

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1261917948973678642/image.png?ex=6694b42c&is=669362ac&hm=174fbdeabbf217f7cf2a84336c9e9980824f10420b95d69e7a0c5f1b9c92752d& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1261917949774663751/image.png?ex=6694b42c&is=669362ac&hm=7aedfc288d86d2ac35a72e9e79e6f8325ded63286e0aee2b3711d039b5a9ef9d& run these 2 and you can play just about anything

pan poseidon works, artemis/mel blades with hera cast, scorch attack, etc

[sand crow]

anyone got a good Eos special build? The only thing I can think of is sticking blitz on special that the daybreaker procs or just putting poseidon on there for chaotic splashies

[magic moss]

according to the speedrunning community, blitz special and build for Golden rule, but this is like only a low fear viable build

[sand crow]

oh shoot, I've never build for Golden Rule before lmao

Do you just... not buy anything?

[magic moss]

no clue i dont play golden rule

i would go to the speedrunner discord for more info since i am very not informed enough of the golden rule strats

[analog ether]

I'm curious how Nasty Comeback (Hera revenge boon that deals percentage of damage taken to enemy that hit you and inflicts Hitch) and Frosty Veneer (Water Infusion that limits damage taken to 15 per hit) interact with each other.

Like, does Nasty Comeback calculate based on the damage you would've normally taken? Or is there anti-synergy there?

[past salmon]

Calculates based on the actual damage you take

Not rlly anti synergy, frosty veneer is always just gonna be amazing to have

[storm horizon]

reckon the same logic is true for armour?

[past salmon]

Yeh

[warped harness]

you avoid unecessary purchases but its not like, forever bad especially since the backbone of those builds is increased gold boons

though with the vow that increases gold shop prices, it may be less worthwhile to make those purchases

chaos gates are very much worth taking for when you can find the gold boon as well

[vapid hatch]

https://postimg.cc/Vdwr0scX
hephaestus at home:

[meager bramble]

Build wizards, any recs for Mel axe 32F? Think I made some poor choices in my first go

Do I need Scars 3? It's pretty intimidating

[plain fossil]

u dont need it for 32f but obviously every level of scars u dont take means something else unpleasant

one thing with mel axe is that if u start hera then commotion is reasonably easy fear since the aoe is so good

so u just do all the normal things, 7 minute timer + 1 or 2 revenants, commotion3, and then i prefer clicking suffering to blood on mel axe because im not a great bosser but u can do some of either

[vale gate]

how do you build mel axe?

% attack -> ?? -> win?

[past salmon]

Get good attack boon
Get dashing heave
??????
Profit

[meager bramble]

Commotion's a good thought, thanks

[vale gate]

how would you rate the attack boons

[meager bramble]

I was running full timer and really feeling the pain of it 😅

Ran out on all bosses but Cerbie, though I didn't actually drop a DD until Chronos

[vale gate]

the chronos fight is enough to make me quit the game

i get there over and over and over with 3 dds and barely beat the first phase

[uneven palm]

If current Engagement Ring didn't exist, probably Hera would be tops. Since it does exist, that tips it over towards Apollo or Aphro. Any of those three are good.

[vale gate]

between huntress and furies you already have 80% out the gate right

[cursive oyster]

yeag

[uneven palm]

Yeah, especially with vow of panic

[safe holly]

Should i take wolf howl, Dark side or Total eclipse?

[round remnant]

Never dark side, which one is total eclipse again? Wolf howl is just fine

[civic ocean]

Wolf howl or dark side is fine, depends on what you wanna be doing and how much you value invulnerability/will go into the trees

Total eclipse is decent too for stationary bosses but those are pretty rare

[bright token]

how do you play with blades attack vs the armored screamers? you cant do anything but wait out the attack

[silent crow]

you camp them with your cast and try to hit them with the finisher

there is nothing you can do 😼

[tall notch]

If you are playing artemis blades, just rush into them with your parry charged up and try to nuke their armor during the ~1 sec invulnerability you get from riposting

[heady sapphire]

can someone please explain to me how Origination works exactly?

[tall notch]

Which part of it do you not understand? If you apply two different curse effects to a target (they can't be from the same god), you'll deal +50% damage to that target

[heady sapphire]

Deal 25%/38%/50% more damage to enemies with 2 or more curses.

How do I set 2 curses on an enemy at once?

Like is it I have to get a boon from Zeus on lightning and say another one from some other god say blitz or whatever and I have to hit the same enemy with 2 different kinds of attacks?

[tall notch]

Things like scorch, freeze, daze and so on are curses. Apply 2 of these (for example, one from your attack and one from your cast) and origination is active

[heady sapphire]

OK, this is probably happening by default all the time too right? Like it'd be inpossible to play this game and NOT have multiple curses happening on an enemy all the time?

[silent crow]

kind of

when you start paying attention to curses you'll realize its a bit harder

[tall notch]

Not all the time. Sometimes your build simply won't have enough boons to apply the 2 curses

[heady sapphire]

Hmm, guess I will have to take note of it in my next run. Haven't unlocked that arcana card yet I think but deff looking forward to trying ti out. Just don't know how difficult it would be to do it. Is it possible to have multiple curses on the same kind of attack? Special/Cast or whatever?

[tall notch]

Usually you'll apply 1 curse with your main damage button and the other with your cast

Iirc the only option to apply entirety of origination with one button is to have a cast boon other than Demeter's (because the curses need to be from different gods) and Demeter's cyclone

[silent crow]

yuou can get apollo's daze attack boon and a different curse attack too but that sucks dont do it

[tall notch]

Do you need to take Apollo's attack, the daze thing and then replace his attack?

Because the daze has his attack as a prerequisite

[silent crow]

yes 😼

[tall notch]

ew

[bright token]

i don't think it sucks. daze chance on attack is a decent boon, it's good vs bosses and also i think it somehow staggers some enemies longer

[silent crow]

i guess if its your only option its not bad but the sprint is js better

[bright token]

at high fear most sprint arent viable imo. only aphro's dash

[silent crow]

apollo sprint works on dash

[bright token]

does it? that's pretty good

[silent crow]

ya, if it didnt then i would consider the daze on atk more

[bright token]

but if i had a choice i'd take weak of course, 30% dr is stronger than a dodge chance

[silent crow]

thats tru

[magic moss]

apollo sprint, aphro dash, and dem sprint are all solid options, and nitro boost is insanely strong

[tall notch]

Poseidon/Zeus sprints are also clickable in manaless builds, panic only taking away 50% of your mana means you can use up the mana you have on one of these two

You'll proc them a few times while running around collecting revs

[heady sapphire]

Wow I am looking at my run pre Cerberus fight and I have like literally ZERO curse on my build.

No attack, special cast nothing. Wonder how that's even possible. What rewards have curses on them so I'll be mindful of grabbing em next time?

[cursive oyster]

demeter cast/sprint/attack/special/gale force

apollo sprint/cast/attack t2/revenge

aphro cast/dash/gain

zeus atk/special

hera atk/special/cast/sprint/revenge

hestia atk/special/cast/sprint (technically)

hephestaus vent blasts

posiedon slip

artemis mark(?)

the hera/aphrodite duo gives charm

and aphro’s legendary gives free origination

whew

[warped harness]

wait how?

oh right its random statuses now isnt it

[safe holly]

does dancing knives stack with hooked knives?

[magic moss]

the interaction is weird as hell and an overall dps loss i think

[carmine lagoon]

Is it? The way I think of it is reducing overkill damage vs having a chance to avoid it, chance to avoid is better (eg Chronos’s 999 reduced by 30% is still death, but daze could have you dodge it)

[silent crow]

well you shouldnt need dodge chance to dodge the chronos 999

[bright token]

yeah if you have low hp and no other reduction, dodge can be better paired with arcana vs guardians

[carmine lagoon]

Tempus bubbles

[silent crow]

uhh ummm

[obsidian hollow]

What spec and atk should I use for eos

[analog ether]

Oooh, Torches and Blood Line from Hera is interesting.

[split igloo]

What's the current meta looking like in you guys' opinion?

[magic moss]

Engagement Ring top1 boon uncontested, Scorch is incredibly strong on staff and blades, Hera once again strongest god

[cloud scarab]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/161575572684668938/1262156899726393466/image.png?ex=669592b6&is=66944136&hm=4c6ae7b4ccf3fa1ffa1e0fcb289374cec9479e7c6830badffb7e287e9f7d83ce&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=825&height=412
This still has to be my favorite build 😄

ended with like 4k money... so like what like 400 flat damage on top of giga cleave... Chronos never knew what hit him 😄

[split igloo]

Oo gotcha

[viscid spade]

Hera on attack or cast. If hera cast, then get apollo/demeter for %dmg on attack. Special doesnt matter, I like zeus for some blitz applications. Heph for defense

[cunning spire]

what's the best skull aspect

[viscid spade]

Imo Medea low fear Persephone high fear

[tall notch]

Mel skulls tbh, they're simple and effective

[past salmon]

Probs Mel skulls overall

Medea is the best (?) for speedrunning

[tall notch]

foolish i have to ask you something

[past salmon]

Go ahead and ask young one

[tall notch]

how do you play high fear blades and don't want to harm yourself with them?

[past salmon]

Tis a good question

[tall notch]

I've been trying to push 50f Artemis and the furthest I made it was Oceanus

[past salmon]

Do runs in like vc or smth it's usually less draining

[tall notch]

This weapon just has 0 range

I thought axe was too melee already and clicked apollo on mel axe

Btw, is clicking rapid slash when dashing heave is available insane behaviour?

[silent crow]

i am not playing blades but this has happened to me in dead cells and. js put on a yt video in the background or go in vc ||https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/716773442958917753/1262184242411081748/SPOILER_Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp.mp4?ex=6695ac2d&is=66945aad&hm=38ca7ddb914f8d1e454c804881fa48137ae01b9ed57c65674d21a7b6b1a19f52& ||

why did it not spoiler

[silent crow]

yes. im coming for you now

[spare kite]

Need to use the text spoiler mark (||) for embeds

[tall notch]

I.. don't recognise that boss, haven't played enough dead cells I guess

[silent crow]

oh what the hell

[silent crow]

that was a full nohit run 😭

[tall notch]

Never getting hit sounds like insanity to me 😭 I saw the cursed blade, unlocked it and lost the run really early when I wanted to try it out

[silent crow]

nohit runs in dc are so ass if u dont cheese the hell out of them

anyway ya ive only been able to keep doing challenge runs bc i can js put on a yt video in the background and zone out

i think a big reason i havent been attempting 50f is because i have to record a death every time i start attempts

[tall notch]

I'm tempted to do a dc run, wondering how I'll do in 3bc after not touching the game for a long while

(I never completed 3bc)

[silent crow]

dc has kind of become like hades where if you pick the right things you autowin

[limpid coral]

Drone Control pog

[tall notch]

What are these things

[limpid coral]

the last time i played or watched ftl was like 2 years ago but i still instantly read dc as either drone control or display case

[silent crow]

a lot of thing s but mostly the sts crossover item and the baseball bat

[tall notch]

You mean the card?

[silent crow]

yeah

[tall notch]

Ohh always liked that one

[silent crow]

super op item

[timber pawn]

I mean you just have to do one at the beginning of the session, after that your failure from the prior run counts as a death, you don't need another death in between

[silent crow]

i know but i usually have to do stuff in between runs too

[timber pawn]

ya thats fine, you can leave that stuff in

and just timestamp the actual start of the run, if you're worried about viewer experience or anything

[silent crow]

still rly anno y ing

[timber pawn]

🤷‍♂️ fair, just letting you know its not as invasive as it may sound on paper

[past salmon]

You can just stop bothering like me
People aren't really going to care while game is in EA

Also I mainly do high fear for myself anyway

I know I do them unseeded so nothing else rlly matters to me

[silent crow]

thats fair

[past salmon]

If anyone really cares I'll always have like raw footage with a death at some point anyway

I don't think I have any 50F clears (not repeats) that were the first try of a session

[silver oriole]

is poseidon still best in slot for Pan special?

[timber pawn]

Yup!

[viscid spade]

Scorch is ok too. Drop the arcana that slows time on omegas though prolly

[magic moss]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit?usp=sharing

[tall notch]

this is such a cool spreadsheet!

[magic moss]

its everything compiled into one thing

[leaden owl]

thanks for all the work and we love you

[magic moss]

np np <3

[magic moss]

if anyone has any requests on what they want on the sheet please let me know

[vale gate]

how would you rank the torch atk hammers

[plain fossil]

Eos > mel >>>>>>> moros

However if ur asking about power level then the other way round by about the same proportion

[vale gate]

no i mean the hammers

[plain fossil]

Oh those are aspect dependent

Clean candle is probably the current best as an average across all three aspects i guess

The current state of specials means special hammers are usually bad, though crushing comet and clean helix have some use

Origin helix is easily the worst for every aspect, best case its a dud worst case it bricks ur build

[vale gate]

is clean candle the -1 mana cost one?\

[plain fossil]

Yes

[vale gate]

what about the one where your dash reverses the fireball

[plain fossil]

That hammer is awful but at least it doesnt brick moros like origin helix does

[warped harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1262322148756820021/image.png?ex=66962c9d&is=6694db1d&hm=7a471c62070d232b857fc29332ad69978dc67d7dcb04304ee51417a3a3ca2b92& this felt so wierd but good

[plain fossil]

ER scorch gud

[vale gate]

is hestias gain the best for the flames?

[plain fossil]

For moros yes

Does nothing for mel and eos doesnt really need that much mana

[vale gate]

is it bad on mel because you want to keep holding the oatk

[plain fossil]

Yes

U want born gain on mel, really

[vale gate]

i also noticed plopping down a cast while holding down atk resets it

[vale gate]

oh this is so comfortable

[vale gate]

can moros backstab? or rather is there a list of things that cant backstab

[plain fossil]

Everything can backstab, as far as im aware, but sources of backstab are pretty limited

[vale gate]

afaik mel blades and apollo right

and that one blade hammer

[past salmon]

Do it mid dash

You're welcome

[haughty bear]

I stumbled into a pretty stupid (fun) build a few runs ago.
Local Climate, Zeus Sprint, the Zeus boon that makes enemies in Casts to be hit by lightning bolts, the boon that increases lightning bolt chance.

Omega Cast and then run straight into a group of enemies and they'd die from the sheer power of your aura lmao

barely had to use my weapon at all until Chronos

it was the torches, so I just used the Omega Special to run into him harder

[plain fossil]

Yea @timber pawn u found another disciple

[vale gate]

wow is that intended?

does golden rule just add gold/10. to any instance of damage you deal?

[past salmon]

Idk

[vale gate]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1217358637836796004/1262358733770719252/image.png?ex=66964eaf&is=6694fd2f&hm=74b3261fac7ed1eac86a72d818749858abedbad9e161221d66c69ff1bcfe7023& ?? i thought the atk gets cancelled if he phases? smh

[past salmon]

Lol looks like.unfortunate timing

[vale gate]

and i proceeded to die somehow only i am capable of this

woah TIL you can fit in a special during ur blade attack sequence

specifically during the rapid jab one

[surreal hazel]

Did anyone ever work out of Daze's dodge chance adds to the normal dodge chance or is its own roll?

[past salmon]

no idea actually
I do know that Daze + Greater evasion carried tf out of me in my Pan 50F Chronos fight

[surreal hazel]

#h2-victory-boasting message

Well yeah, was thinking the same here

[past salmon]

I think it is probs a seperate roll tho idk

[surreal hazel]

except not carry so much as render untouchable

here it changes 65% to either 85% or 72%, depending on how the game handles it

But dang, getting apollo, zeus and aphrodite in one run with whispy wiles is silly. Still a little bummed I turned down a rare Creation boon, but hey

[surreal hazel]

If critical miss was still a thing, we could find out, but alas

but you know, that boon was a bit bad, so eh

[plain fossil]

greater evasion is something i rly like btw

like if i see purple greater evasion i take it really highly

[past salmon]

it is very good yeah
tbh I should click it at common more aswell

its probably like next best hermes boon after nitro boost
Unless I'm forgetting something

[plain fossil]

from hermes i usually take the three defensive boons over any of the offensive ones

[prisma wind]

What is Nitro Boost?

[plain fossil]

nitro boost, greater evasion and hard target

[past salmon]

I despise the projectile slow one
It screws my muscle memory

[plain fossil]

ha i really like that one

i figure if u can adapt to gale force u can adapt to hard target and its really good when u need to dodge things on reaction

[plain fossil]

shield on sprint

[past salmon]

gale force kinda screws me too

Maybe I

[prisma wind]

Oh, i don't really like that one
When i see Hermes i often take the attack speed boost on the normal or Omega attacks
And sometimes i take the money boost

[past salmon]

am broken

[west summit]

I usually don't play at high fear so idk how much the projectile slow really screws me but when I've had frigid sprint it feels weird

[tender anvil]

Frigid Sprint is a funny way to avoid Hecate sheep curse

[surreal hazel]

Projectile slow kinda breaks the sea monster in the rift

its projectiles never get to land quick enough so their cluster projectiles just explode since they're out of bounds

[vale gate]

how do u build pan special

[surreal hazel]

loads of ways

More depends on the hammers you get

hook and dancing knives in particular

[vale gate]

to be able to hit multiple opps?

[surreal hazel]

yeah, those

[vale gate]

so you just get a gain, plop your cast and ospecial until room cleared?

[surreal hazel]

ideally?

Pan is just more knives and the homing

other things to think about are one of the three cast launches

[plain fossil]

i dont think ive ever taken the money boost other than for prophecy 1 time

oh and for golden rule

[surreal hazel]

it's nice if you get it in purple

[plain fossil]

i find either ive got destitution on and its really low value or i dont have destitution on and i bought everything anyway

[surreal hazel]

its 40% to all cash, not just room rewards

[plain fossil]

i might click it if its in purple against some bad offensive boons

[vale gate]

ill give it a go

whats the ideal god you want on the special tho

[surreal hazel]

hrmmm, depends,

easier to say what doesn't work, Apollo basically is just a a damage bonus

Haphestus doesn't really help much

Aphrodite makes you a close range monster

[vale gate]

rather would you want flat or % dmg on it

[surreal hazel]

it's 25 base damage, it's kind of in that sweet spot where they're both good

[vale gate]

ig its like chiron

[surreal hazel]

kinda. yeah

if you get something like slow cooker going, then +% can go nuts

but similarly, scorch knives will obliterate everything

Even Blitz is actually really viable there too with Dancing knives, even makes Toasting Fork reasonable

The other thing is to kind of ignore the "pan" part and just remember you have the knives in general, and flick knives is just always good

being able to special and attack in one button is hella good for origination procs

and flick knives still behave like regular knives, so they benefit from dancing/hook knives, maybe even melting dart

(it's a spread of 3 knives, but they benefit from the huntress, so they're not omega specials as far as the game cares, I think)

Oh wait yeah, to add more to this wall of text, Sureshot flurry can really work well with Pan, as they extra knives don't just fly sideways any more. Oddly the homing aspect can become a hindrance

[vale gate]

[surreal hazel]

what can I say? Knives is like Chiron meets Malphon

[past salmon]

I can give such good amazing advice for pan yep yes definitely
Honestly I got no idea how to play this aspect just hit the RNG and get hook knives 4head

[surreal hazel]

Honestly, hook knives could just be "Your knives pierce enemies" and it'd still be great

[vale gate]

i will likely never play this aspect again

[past salmon]

idk if I've mentioned it here but imo Blades specials should pierce by default

[surreal hazel]

You'd have to give it a lower base damage to justify that

[past salmon]

idk would you

[surreal hazel]

Attack button: Am I a joke to you?

[past salmon]

like atm Pan is the only thing that ever even clicks the special button
And it only becomes really strong with specific setups

Like idk I think it would be fine

[surreal hazel]

somehow the staff gets a base power of 10 for its special

[tall notch]

There's a reason why base staff special is never clicked

[surreal hazel]

I dunno, I still end up with artemis special builds that wreck face

[past salmon]

ok but artemis special builds are just worse than attack builds anyway

[vale gate]

[surreal hazel]

yeah, but sometimes the hammer insists

[past salmon]

yeah so it would be nice to make special builds viable outside of "just get hook knives lmao"

[vale gate]

you can use the special inbetween your attackcombo

incase you eever needed 25 damage

[surreal hazel]

Flick knives is and isn't a special I guess

[past salmon]

Flick knives is pretty poor
Like it's ok
But there is just almost always a better hammer

[surreal hazel]

it really isn't

[past salmon]

I mean it is tho

[surreal hazel]

it's so low key amazing

[past salmon]

the problem with flick knives is that blades dash attack itself kinda sucks

[vale gate]

flick knives kinda ruined me once

[surreal hazel]

it inherits all other dagger upgrades, and it's free origination much of the time

[past salmon]

Origination is very easy to get anyway

[surreal hazel]

it is, but hey, it even makes heaven flourish good

[void idol]

A little too easy in my opinion

[tall notch]

I don't like dash-attacking in h2 in general. Give me some iframes please

[past salmon]

I mean sure its pretty ok with heaven flourish
But a hammer that requires an extra boon you otherwise wouldn't take to become even half decent is a pretty poo hammer

[surreal hazel]

I often end up using dash strike a lot just as a matter of course

[past salmon]

Just click the attack button later

[surreal hazel]

Well, Heaven strike is an example, pretty much any boon works there

aphrodite's gets a shoutout since you get 3 knives at pointblank

[past salmon]

you're still taking a boon you probably wouldn't otherwise

just to get your hammer to like
Do something

[void idol]

A core boons?

[surreal hazel]

you gotta fill that slot eventually

[void idol]

Boon

[past salmon]

you definitely don't

[surreal hazel]

ehhhh... you'll keep losing an offering to it until you do

[past salmon]

Core boons arent as pushed on you in H2 as they were in H1

[surreal hazel]

they still always occupy slot 1 unless you reroll

[vale gate]

itll just end up clogging ur pom pool

[tall notch]

I've had runs where I haven't gotten boon in all of Oceanus
Trust me I have no time to take special boons most of the time 😭

[surreal hazel]

Onion Gameplay?

[tall notch]

[past salmon]

its still better to just click 1 of the other 2 options that actually do something for you

[void idol]

Me and my two one boon runs

[surreal hazel]

Maybe, but I imagine I can tell you experimental hammer upgrades you groan more at when it rolls them

[past salmon]

I mean sure
I already said Flick Knives is ok lol
Its just almost always outclassed by something else

[surreal hazel]

yeah, perhaps, maybe I just like how it switches up the style a bit

switch knives, if you will

and just like that, I come up with a more bananas Fine Tuning

What if that legendary just picked one of the other aspects and layered it on top of your weapon?

[void idol]

Also, does anyone know what heph legendary does for all aspects yet

[surreal hazel]

I know a few of them

the safe assumption is to extrapolate for an imaginary rank 8

Except for Momus

[void idol]

Ik dat one

[surreal hazel]

what is it? 0.5?

[void idol]

1.5

[surreal hazel]

(Rank 8 would be zero, lol, which would be lol)

isn't 1.5 the rank 5 rate?

[void idol]

Wait a minute

[past salmon]

someone had a post with all of them idk where I would find it tho

[surreal hazel]

Some are clearly more insane than others

[past salmon]

ik Mel skulls is +35 power per skull which is umm
Yeah
Thats alot

[surreal hazel]

depends how much of the aspect is in the function or the numeric effect

[surreal hazel]

Expanded array gameplay?

Pocket full of nukes

[past salmon]

Bolstered is an always take on mel skulls regardless

[surreal hazel]

clearly, yeah

[void idol]

What about thanatos

[surreal hazel]

I've done thanatos

#h2-victory-boasting message

it's -45% function time

[void idol]

HOLY

that's insane

[vale gate]

lmfao

[tall notch]

The problem with taking it on mel skulls is that you need to click a Heph attack/special for prerequisites

And like why would you do that on mel skull

[surreal hazel]

inb4 I have to explain how attack speed modifiers work in Hades

[void idol]

Epic attack speed and rapid slash

[past salmon]

just click special its fine u dont use it anyway

[surreal hazel]

because by god they use the wrong words to describe it

[void idol]

Im aware

It's all a mess

[tall notch]

Then click one of the heph blast boosters for another prerequisite
Then get the legendary
It's a lot of work for the payoff

On axes it's more realistic since Heph special is actually clickable

[surreal hazel]

30% attack speed is 43% faster, 45% is 82% faster

[past salmon]

I mean yeah I'm just saying you could do it

[surreal hazel]

Smithy Sprint is also a prereq if you don't want it on attack or special

[tall notch]

That's even worse 😭

[surreal hazel]

you need one blast boon, one offensive support boon and one defensive boon

Uncanny fortitude does not contribute, sadly

Artemis rank 6 is -90% omega attack channelling time

basically instant, and much more functional as a block button

[void idol]

What about mel torches

[surreal hazel]

+1.5 seconds omega special duration iirc

[void idol]

And Persephone skull

[surreal hazel]

dunno

but medea would be kinda hilarious. Although I don't use that much

[void idol]

I despise medea

[surreal hazel]

I forget how that scales

[void idol]

It's the only worse reworked aspect from Hades

[surreal hazel]

would be +90%

[void idol]

Pan would be even more broken

[surreal hazel]

but that's additive damage so eh

[past salmon]

[surreal hazel]

Pan would be +8 blades

but you already have spiral knives... so?

I guess that's mutually exclusive with Sureshot Flurry

[vale gate]

what does the legendary do?

[void idol]

It increases aspect rank by 1

[surreal hazel]

+1 weapon rank, but rank 6 weapons are a big step up as of the last patch

[void idol]

But usually by like two or three in actuality

[surreal hazel]

functioning more like rank 8

similarly, rank 4 keepsakes are more like rank 5 where possible

Charon Rank 6, actually wait a sec

[west summit]

Extremely tragic (they need to +10 seconds)

[surreal hazel]

+45% radius and cast damage? holy dang.

[vale gate]

this would be broken on h1 aspects

[surreal hazel]

on some of them

[void idol]

Imagine you get that one hammer where o specials immediately fizzle out in exchange for a bit more power

[surreal hazel]

would make chiron fire more arrrows though, so lol

[west summit]

Wait wot. How is the calculation even made

[surreal hazel]

30% faster really means "multiply the function time by 0.7"

[west summit]

That one only applies to non omega

[surreal hazel]

so in terms of how many attacks you can make in a given time it's 1/(1-0.3)

[west summit]

oh

[vale gate]

eris would be like bonus 135% global lmao

[surreal hazel]

different attack speed bonuses multiply together

so two 30% bonuses becomes 0.7 x 0.7 = 0.49. Equivalent to a single 51% bonus

[void idol]

Doesn't it specifically apply to omegas

[surreal hazel]

if attack speed bonuses added, you could legit get negative function multipliers, which would crash the game

as that would mean you attacks happen before you press the button

[west summit]

Your Special has +75% Power, but dissipates after striking foes.

[surreal hazel]

+75*

[void idol]

% power??

[surreal hazel]

raw damage

[west summit]

I'm copy and pasting off wiki

[surreal hazel]

which honestly is a LOT, making it a 90 base damage hit

a really awkward to control 90 base damage

[surreal hazel]

Hestia tho

[plain fossil]

crushing comet eos is a setup that does work

its not insane or anything and its a setup that really wants hitch on the dawnbreaker but its reasonably playable

[surreal hazel]

also Moros rank 6 would be... +105% blast damage?

[void idol]

Circe?

[surreal hazel]

I don't know how that scales

[west summit]

180%

[surreal hazel]

a lot, but it's still additive

gives insane cast damage though iirc

because cast damage is so big to begin with, but no core boon does a +% improvement to it

[void idol]

Does chant count?

[surreal hazel]

so any % improvements you do get feel much more impactful

[surreal hazel]

It's an omega move, so hell yeah

(Chant is so insanely busted sometimes)

Also one of the few chaos boons without a random variance

other than the rarity

[void idol]

Had a chant Persephone build with aphro Special

With old Poseidon cast but the new version

[surreal hazel]

I hope you had twisting crash too

[void idol]

Forgot the name of the Poseidon boon and yes, ofc i did

[surreal hazel]

Geyser Spout

[void idol]

Yes yes

[surreal hazel]

Other oddities, that Splash Fount boon is very interesting

[void idol]

Wait what's fount then

[surreal hazel]

especially if you're running not-daybreaker torches

Splash fount makes a water explosion centered on enemies hit by any omega move (it's capped at one present at a time)

but it's free, unlike bloodline

so with omega toch attack, you can be making splashes everywhere pretty cheaply

[void idol]

Also I'm asking this for like the third time

[surreal hazel]

Bloodline omega attack is... insane if you can get the magicka gain to back it

[void idol]

Does anyone know how to make skull o attack good

[surreal hazel]

Apollo

Rocket bombard perhaps

[void idol]

But the delay is soo annoying

Does Arctic ring work

[surreal hazel]

to stop them moving?

[past salmon]

Possessed array

[surreal hazel]

Also mel skulls, fire all but one skull, omega the last one

[past salmon]

Actually full salvo makes it ok
With like bolstered (and if triple hammer rocket bombard) it goes hard

[surreal hazel]

or go full salvo with mell skulls for lols

although that might not give the damage bonus properly

[past salmon]

you can do full salvo Persephone
Its better

[surreal hazel]

Ah yes

[past salmon]

yeah full salvo doesnt work with mel skulls :

[surreal hazel]

I guess it checks how many skulls you have at the point of firing, alas

[void idol]

That doesn't count

[surreal hazel]

Rocket bombard full salvo though

[void idol]

Im talking an actual, legit o attack run

[surreal hazel]

The good old Eris days

[void idol]

That's like saying flick knives counts as a special build

[past salmon]

Well I was joking yeah lmao
Hence why I also said an actual setup

[surreal hazel]

I mean, what do you want here?

It's a big kaboom in one hit

[void idol]

To prove to myself that all builds are viable

[surreal hazel]

it's an omega, you aren't necessarily meant to use it all of the time

[void idol]

After 25 years and the enemy has died due to engagement ring

[surreal hazel]

it's a LOT quicker than Exagryph's bomb was

does it even take a second to get there?

(heh, Extreme Measures Eris, she has Rocket Bomb)

[west summit]

Would Frinos eat that or would it explode

[surreal hazel]

it's a rocket, it explodes

have fun

[west summit]

Soot Sprint ftw

[surreal hazel]

assuming that's allowed against those

[west summit]

Axe special

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, that'd be like doing it against exploding barrels in Ephyra

you block the barrel, it still explodes

(Specifically the thrown ones)

[west summit]

I kinda want Eris' fight to more reliably have adds

Mostly for the sake of Sun Worshipper and Night Bloom

[steel sequoia]

back from a trip, some new people over here

[timber pawn]

@past salmon you had some brutal chronos attack patterns on the chronos fight I swear there were like 12 boomerangs in p1

[past salmon]

wait which clear

[timber pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL6RXoU-DVM&ab_channel=Foolish

oh sorry, Pan*. I didnt specify

[past salmon]

oh lmao
Did you like seeing me get carried by GE + Daze

[timber pawn]

hey if it gets the job done it gets the job done lol

[past salmon]

truth

[sturdy escarp]

doing my first Vow of Abandon run, wish me luck

[sturdy escarp]

No one wished me luck and I died in Oceanus thanks guys. I can't live without my death defiances 😦

[vale gate]

good luck

[magic moss]

why

[safe holly]

should i take concentrated flurry or boundless flurry?

[bright token]

damn, lost to time vs 2nd phase chronos on 50F staff. if i had a speed hammer instead of dmg to distant, probably would've been a win. really don't like this hammer dependance of the weapon

[past salmon]

Boundless is probs better but uncertain

[civic ocean]

Conc scales off of % damage bonuses better IIRC so thats a consideration but if you're doing the usual Poseidon special Pan stuff boundless seems better

[spare kite]

Wasn't concentrated removed

[magic moss]

which ones were those again

[spare kite]

+power per special that hit/channel speed respectively

Tho if it's the old version then it is also cost reduction

[vale gate]

bruh pan is just chiron

[steel sequoia]

both actually, that is an old patch.

[spare kite]

Pretty sure boundless just got the mana cost removed?
Or did it change name too

And also way less channel speed

[steel sequoia]

now i recommend playing sudden+spiral+hook/dancing or if you are into weird stuff sureshot flurry

now its flick, dancing, hook, spiral, sudden and sureshot. melting dart is garbage if ur playing pan anyways.

Sureshot is playable tho

[glad glen]

How am I supposed to use the Skulls? I had a run where I lost to 7 minute time limit despite having Final Boss stand in the Skulls with the Hammer that makes them cause damage every now and then while I pelt him at a distance with other damage options at my disposal.
The Skulls just seem to have a tad little utility when dealing with singular enemies. Which is, frankly, most Bosses. One runs out of Skulls fast, and the Special does not seem to do all that much unOmegaed either (not to mention that most of that utility is area damage as well).

How do people deal having a weapon that mostly deals area damage to multitude of enemies when the biggest time-sink are singular Bosses?

[steel sequoia]

@past salmon 👆

[silent crow]

that hammer sucks

[glad glen]

I noticed. :b

[tender anvil]

I can speak for Melinoe Skulls in particular (not that experienced with the others). The approach is to unload them repeatedly, either from a close range (stay at melee range, so that shells are collected automatically), or unload all skulls from a distance, pick up all, repeat

second option is good for Chronos (run away from him, shoot when he is moving towards you, dash past him when he winds up an attack, collect skulls, repeat)

[glad glen]

Yeah, I noticed that spamming the Skulls at touch range seemed to be the only way one got an acceptable amount of damage-output. Which seems a bit disappointing for a weapon ane would assume mostly being focused on at least semi-range.
The Skulls seem to give barely enough impact considering the effort of picking them up.

[silent crow]

was trying to use that hammer your only experience with skulls

[glad glen]

Thus far. They take way too long to unlock.
I have mostly focused on early game repeated testing so that I spot any issues with early progression. Currently, there is a lot to improve on there. :b

[tender anvil]

you really want a % attack boon (apollo/aphro/demeter/hera), and then the skulls are no joke, as they are doing 300ish damage per skull

[silent crow]

use them more

[glad glen]

I know. I will. This is why my post is here and not feedback. :b

[silent crow]

what problems are there with early progression

curious

[glad glen]

Options unlock way too slow. Especially compared to first Hades.
Like switching Keepsakes (about Run 3 in first Hades, closer to tenth here).
Unlocking the second and third weapons. Weapons in general.
Or, hell, weapon aspects.

In other words, I often feel like I am just waiting for the permission from the game to unlock options to have some sort of variety and goals with.

Stuff like that.

Especially the Keepsake switching taking so long really rustles my jimmies. It is just much less fun to unlock it once one has already fully Leveled a Keepsake or few.

[silent crow]

weird that keepsake switching unlocks later when nearly every keepsake is useless past 1 biome

[glad glen]

Indeed.

[silent crow]

idk about weapons it took a while to get those in h1 too

[glad glen]

I mean, I have unlocked all weapons by Run 5 in Hades. But that really depends.

[spare kite]

How did you even get that many keys

[glad glen]

Between 6-8 every run taking every single key on the path to Hades.
Of course, if one does not make it to end of Floor 3, it takes longer.

But the point is that I just do not like how I am forced to use the Staff until the game graciously grants me the ability to gather the resources that allow me to unlock another one for Run 4. :b

[limpid coral]

would be cool if you could just unlock a lot of stuff fast from a fresh file if you were good, but also dialogue making sense is pretty important for a new player experience

[vale gate]

does ff have different dialogue

[limpid coral]

what is ff

[spare kite]

Fresh file

[silent crow]

ospecial https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/723559673004949564/1262479537212494005/2024-07-15_14-40-26.mp4?ex=6696bf31&is=66956db1&hm=0fbea930ca3b85e94a27463a7c28604373f5e2abd01c1931def3c3771fa40dc8&

[safe holly]

Does cast work on bosses? (asking because of aspect of pan)

[silent crow]

yes

[tired fulcrum]

They have resistance to the root tho

[glad glen]

I mean, sure. But hiding central mechanics that increase variety behind slow-to-arrive narrative is not exactly a stellar decision to begin with. :b

[limpid coral]

How fast u unlock mechanics is interesting i guess for now theyre not really looking to simultaneously gate mechanics for new players who would be confused and let experienced players have their fun

[steel sequoia]

yall know we are still getting more content right?

[surreal hazel]

it's almost essential to stopping cerberus' rolling slam attack in phase 2

[safe holly]

is it? i killed him 4 times before ever having used it

[surreal hazel]

And avoiding damage on that phase?

[safe holly]

fair point ig although i did do a hitless guessing i just killed him to fast though

[tired fulcrum]

I mean you can just dash behind him on the first slam then keep sprinting around him

[surreal hazel]

Hence almost

[plain fossil]

Fury2 cerberus if u try and manual dodge the 8 slams u can end up in bad positions

Just drop a cast on him srsly it lets u position however u want

[tired fulcrum]

Well position anywhere but near him

[steel sequoia]

a drop cast is the safest thing to do, but yeah you can always obliterate the poor doggie

[pale cedar]

anyone have any recs for torch - 24 heat? arcana, weapon aspect and vows thanks!

[full cloak]

For Aspect of Persephone

What are the best casts?

Ik Zeus is really good, but any others?

[cursive oyster]

heph seems good

[cursive oyster]

in theory dem or aph but i haven’t tried them

[steel sequoia]

zeus with demeter duo is really good for persephone builds

but if you wanna play other stuff i usually try some apollo or some funny things with poseidon, aphrodite or heph

zeus, poseidon and apollo prolly the best persephone casts, the only thing you need to be careful is Prominence Flare and Geyser Spout. and Queen's Ransom if ur playing forsaking.

[full cloak]

Hm, alr ty

[civic ocean]

gonna stream max fear

[restive bolt]

hey yall, is it possible to use too many inputs and have some not go through? just lost a frustrating run where i think i pressed the q key too fast after using a death defiance and melinoe wasn't doing anything, so sorceress didn't proc, got hit, etc

if it matters, the weapon was torches

i'm kinda mad though, went into chronos w 3 dd. one was a fair hit, but lost one because i was omega attacking him with torches and was barely outside the ohko safety zone, and again bc of messing up inputs or smth, then threw lmao

[round remnant]

There's a lot of situations where various cutscenes or animations (hexes? Dd?) will not register button presses during that time, e.g. if you are holding attack or special during chronos dialogue, you WONT start the fight with channel, and will have to release/repress the button

Is Poseidon special still the best build for high heat pan?

[plain fossil]

Engagement ring scorch special is also good

[bright token]

i just had a run where i had 2:10 on the clock with the torches by the final location with the solo engagement ring as a boon (literally didn't get any other boon). and then i get a huge map with coutless death ray demons and hippos and i spent all 2 mins clearing it and there was literally nothing i could do

really hope the game gets consistent enemy aggro. even if you arent speedrunning, the fact that death ray demons basically don't care about your existence is a little strange. and some mobs indefinitely running to the outer edges of the map is very strange as well

[plain fossil]

Whats a death ray demon

Fundamentally i agree that theres a couple of really miserable room/mob combos in late erebus and 5 min timer is unpleasant sometimes

Not sure what mob ur referring to tho

[past salmon]

Spindles probably

[round remnant]

Any particular reason for ER beyond it being generically strong? Is there some combo with scorch?

[past salmon]

ER is broken and scorch damage works pretty well with hitch

[plain fossil]

Oh yea potentially, i find all three torch aspects are pretty good vs spindles tho

Hippos im ngl i struggle to hit them with torch attack hitbox sometimes

[past salmon]

Moros can struggle a bit
But yeah

[cursive oyster]

god i hate 50f

[past salmon]

Then stop playing it