h2-builds-and-combat

[bleak night]

Yeah, I've been enjoying Skulls as well

[arctic glacier]

top row maxed. Interesting. Thanks for the share :3

[knotty fulcrum]

is this for pan?

[dim kestrel]

my current Arcana loadout is:

Sorceress (1) |              |             |              | Messenger (0)
Furies    (2) | Titan    (2) |             |              | Lovers (2)
Runner    (1) | Eternity (3) | Centaur (0) | Moon     (3) | Strength (5)
Fates     (3) |              | Origin. (3) |              | 
              | Champs   (4) |             | Divinity (0) | 

Anything you'd change?

[steel sequoia]

i played mel skulls but its for generall melee aspects

[bleak night]

Let me check mine for comparison

[steel sequoia]

think u can do daggers, eos, melaxe with it

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1249789701146153060/image.png?ex=666894dc&is=6667435c&hm=4a6c6f91e1f4bc293d8af0f73cd8afba380102c821d345c16575e5192f90e07f& This is my Charon loadout for the most part. I don't really care too much about Divinity because I wanna reroll for the stuff I need, the rest are just things that decide how much I can spam Cast + Omega Special

[steel sequoia]

id avoid rebuke and onion tbh

[arctic glacier]

onion is bleh

[bleak night]

Onion is good on surface runs

[arctic glacier]

true

[dim kestrel]

okay yeah, so almost the same except swapping Strength + Divinity for Boatman + Seer

[steel sequoia]

i always try to fill the 1st and 3rd row for epic boost

[bleak night]

Yeah, give it a go. Don't be afraid to reroll major find rooms as well in order to find gods you find preferable to your build

[steel sequoia]

3rd row for casts, 1st for hits

sometimes getting an epic Heavy Metal is all you need for the run

[arctic glacier]

Hephaestus is kinda a gigachad in High Heat. Just beat 24 Heat Aspect of Artemis with him :3

[civic ocean]

I do artificer for Charon it's been pretty good

[quartz plaza]

Question about how god selection works --

Say I start a run with a Hera keepsake. I pick up Hera, and I see Apollo, Zeus, etc. If I don't pick them up, will I keep seeing them? Are gods set at the start? Or could any god show up if I don't pick one of the other gods? Once I have 4 gods picked, do any other show up in doors? Can anything show up at Charon?

[bleak night]

I'd like Artificer a lot more if it didn't take away a lot from my setup

[dim kestrel]

Yeah, I generally do some of that early on, particularly. I sometimes go for Seer but for the most part have gotten by okay with just 6 rerolls. But obviously as Fear goes up, you want to exert tighter control

[bleak night]

If there are 3 gods left in your pool, then it might shift towards others

[spare kite]

Pool is decided when you take their boon
Once the 4 are locked the rest dissapear unless you use the respective keepsakes

[bleak night]

That's pretty much it, yeah. Try to go Hera start with Heph or Dem in Oceanus depending on needs

Apollo if you find that you have Origination a lot earlier than expected and want damage on your Special

[arctic glacier]

we talkin Moonstone Axe, I'm assumin?

[bleak night]

Charon Axe, but yeah

[arctic glacier]

gotcha

[bleak night]

I build Charon way too differently compared to the other two

as for hammers, I'd suggest prioritizing Giga Cleaver over Sudden Cleaver if they both happen to be in the same pool

[civic ocean]

I just want an excuse to run artificer on one of the weps

[bleak night]

Giga Cleaver > Sudden Cleaver > Empowering Guard

As good as Sudden Cleaver is, Giga Cleaver lets you explode two casts in one Omega Special

[worthy plover]

wait, really?

[bleak night]

Yeah, set one down, charge it up and unleash, then spam Cast as it goes off

[civic ocean]

under the right circumstances yeah

[bleak night]

the second one goes down and erupts from the second volley of Omega Specials the hammer allows you

[worthy plover]

very interesting

[steel sequoia]

after dicing a lot of doors i believe it forces you into 2-3 gods and a splashable. if you have like a core and you reroll a room with your cores you will see basically the same 3 gods in the rerolls, they try to limit your options. i was forced into zeus 2 times my last run, i thought i was getting dem before chronos and there was an apollo and zeus boon

[worthy plover]

that's kind of silly

[bleak night]

It's better if you have Lightning Lance, but otherwise, having the ability to have an aoe underfoot means you have the option of shifting to medium-range gameplay instead of just being far away

[civic ocean]

It also doesn't work if you take Solar Ring

[bleak night]

That too, yeah.

[arctic glacier]

lasts too long, I'm assuming

[bleak night]

Yep, the rest explode on contact with Omega Special

Solar Ring explodes and stays for an extra few seconds to do its rapid damage

[worthy plover]

yeah, that'd be incompatible with solar ring then

[arctic glacier]

Why not use Poseidon, am I right?

[bleak night]

wish I had a normal 45 fear video of a Charon run up, but I had to record the most scuffed one I have ever seen in my life

[bleak night]

I'd use it if it got fixed, honestly. rn it just does less damage for some reason

[arctic glacier]

dang

[steel sequoia]

pos cast is weird with charon

[arctic glacier]

sadge times

[spare kite]

Post cast couldn't escape being weird from H1

[tame spindle]

i understand now holy

[bleak night]

Did you get Giga Cleaver ?

[tame spindle]

i wasnt sure how to reliably do it when u told me before

yeah its insane with lightning lance

[bleak night]

nice

[worthy plover]

clearly a tradeoff for being able to do knockback :) /s

[dim kestrel]

I... had not considered this possibility

[bleak night]

I find the knockback really unreliable because I tried it on a meme run once and it knocked enemies into my face

[worthy plover]

yeah it's not great

[tame spindle]

btw what keepsake do u usually use going into fields if ur not going for white antler

[summer seal]

So it's cast --> Charge omega special and unleash --> spam cast?

[tame spindle]

u do another cast while the first omega special is doing its thing

[bleak night]

depends, if you think you have enough timer to mess around and gamble, Experimental Hammer in the hopes it gives you Sudden Cleaver or Empowering Guard. If not, see if you quality for Blackened Fleece's bonuses

[tame spindle]

i always do

[bleak night]

Blackened Fleece is the best offensive hammer on Charon besides White Antler, so

[steel sequoia]

i always go Blackened Fleece if i can

[bleak night]

tbh just gamble if you don't need a specific keepsake boost on Fields

[dim kestrel]

I generally go Blackened Fleece in Fields with multi-omega aspects... I don't think I've ever not qualified or been at most like 10 damage away from qualifying for it by then

[bleak night]

Hammer or Chaos egg, full send. Maybe you'll get what you need

then just swap to Fleece for Tartarus

[steel sequoia]

it its too easy i get on fields, if not than for chrono fight

[bleak night]

on Charon, you don't need to be afraid of Experimental Hammer like you do with attack Axes

[steel sequoia]

persephone loves Bfleece

[dim kestrel]

I guess Charon doesn't have a build-destroying hammer

[bleak night]

you either get what you want or are mildly disappointed and carry on with your run

[spare kite]

How much would you value the channel speed from droplet?

[steel sequoia]

there aint no hammer for omega casts so we take what we have honestly

[dim kestrel]

faster OSpecial charge has been my favorite for Charon

[tame spindle]

oh wait i actually didnt think of that yeah ive been kinda subconsciously ignoring hammer bc of than trauma

[bleak night]

I think it's very good, but Blackened Fleece boosts the damage of both Omegas, whilst Metallic Drop still needs to compete with the fact that you need to walk up to Chronos to place a cast down, then back away to channel something slightly faster

[dim kestrel]

that must be Sudden Cleaver, right

[steel sequoia]

i ocasionally like to get a Hell Splitter for Charon, if i have no other options

[dim kestrel]

I don't remember the names

[bleak night]

Yeah, if you're more confident on Sudden Cleaver over Giga Cleaver, then you can take it.

[dim kestrel]

Giga Cleaver sounds higher up-side but harder to execute

[steel sequoia]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1249794056016625684/Sem_titulo.jpg?ex=666898eb&is=6667476b&hm=a992ffb21ac084a19cb276a69cacfff6d1911853863ccbb0d77fb57cc6506c41& special axes

[bleak night]

Giga Cleaver doesn't increase chargetime anymore, it just includes the mana cost pre-emptively

[spare kite]

Oh I didn't realize that
That's goated

[dim kestrel]

yeah

I definitely take it... idk if I've had a run where I got both offered together. If I did I don't remember which I took

[quartz plaza]

Some useful resources

https://hades2-fear-run.vercel.app/
https://hades2-crossroads.vercel.app/
https://hades2.game-vault.net/wiki/Main_Page
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18BO3vOgqm_SaBwr9uWMlRH_Yj0h9G08ZLhQaqdz6z9s/edit#gid=913678731

[quartz plaza]

can we pin this?

[bleak night]

the ideal Charon build for me is Origination off of a single Dem Cast, Apollo on Special, and the Apollo-Dem duo, with Born Gain and defensive boons from Heph

[bleak night]

sadly idt the mods pin stuff

we can ask maybe

oh, also Hades giving you Howling Soul is a dream

[white steppe]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824538394506952724/1249795009708953724/image.png?ex=666899ce&is=6667484e&hm=d8e519a4efe96d53e1f6be727d7920abc58f48c43adf7961e5eb5918d089f7b7&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=498&height=437
appropriate for persephone? id like to know if the diagnosis is skill issue or not

[civic ocean]

my game fell off, my spreadsheet not recommended

[bleak night]

I think Pers wants more enemies

Since you charge asap and unleash Omega Special from the full glory

[white steppe]

-fury +commotion +revenant?

[civic ocean]

turn on scars 3 to start

[bleak night]

Yeah, would be a good idea

[civic ocean]

then more enemies and revs are fine and drop the dmg vows

[white steppe]

ill get even more bullied on scars 3, i wiped to scylla on this fear setup lul

[tame spindle]

how do people play scars 3?

[bleak night]

Revs on Pers are fine

[bleak night]

I'm just used to it ig

[civic ocean]

scars 3 doesn't impact centaur hearts, so, normally for the most part

usually take Engraved Pin too

[white steppe]

my moros keepsake is lvl 1 monkaS

[tame spindle]

OH

[steel sequoia]

tbh i think the 10 arrogance is too much for persephone, i rather play onion ngl

[white steppe]

there's no shot onion is correct

[civic ocean]

onion is correct on surface probably

[steel sequoia]

well when you get 3 boons and you have 30 mana left on pool is rough if you like to spam casts

[civic ocean]

you only need one rarified boon on persephone tho

[white steppe]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824538394506952724/1249796011845484654/image.png?ex=66689abd&is=6667493d&hm=d6f244feec53f56e7aa062452c66a7a8f93d75d3d91b0c371d5a91172d688136&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=557&height=437
so this?

[civic ocean]

yeah that's fine if you're doing conventional special spam

[silent crow]

no hard labor?

[white steppe]

its already scars 3 i dont think i want blood

[civic ocean]

I turn on Blood over Commotion and Revs because Air Fryer is extremely defensive playstyle

[dim kestrel]

I think I read here at some point that Strength doesn't actually work as written, and only applies its damage bonus to attack and special... do you know if that's true? If so it's not very good for Charon. But if it works as written, it seems potentially potent, particularly with Scars 3 on

[steel sequoia]

i dont like the 10 prime for pphone, id pick around the dmg

[civic ocean]

Strength just isn't very good IMO

[steel sequoia]

5 maybe fine, but 10 is too much imo

[white steppe]

maybe I should do some 0 heat runs first to level pin

i have no issue with 10 prime personally

[dim kestrel]

because it doesn't apply to enough things, or because its condition is too restrictive?

[civic ocean]

I want my damage increasing arcana to be active when I start runs not after I'm beaten up

[steel sequoia]

well im not the best 32fear player so i might be wrong, but i think primming too much mana is harsh

[dim kestrel]

in this case the consideration is Strength and activate Divnity, but no boatman and only 6 rerolls, or Boatman and 10 rerolls but no Strength or rarity boost

I guess Boatman likely means an extra boon in Erebus, so maybe even aside from rerolls that's the play

[tame spindle]

i feel like strength and rarity is just objectively worse?

[spare kite]

Rarity is overated frankly

[steel sequoia]

there is some specific stuff that needs rarity, but i agree

[civic ocean]

divinity is actively bad don't worry about it

[spare kite]

On H1 epic chance was a lot better cuz hermes rarity was so huge (and it doesn't go against other good options)

[dim kestrel]

because of Arrogance you mean?

[civic ocean]

Yes, also the impact isn't that impressive with the ability to rarify boons more easily in H2

[quartz plaza]

Thoughts on an ideal 4th god for this build? Maybe Poseidon and get Water Finesse, Double Up, Hydraulic Might?
My notes for the build

Demeter Cast (**), Sprint, Cyclone Cast is Good too
Demeter Coarse Grit (**), Winter Coat
Heph: Mint Condition (**), Trusty Shield (**), Martial Art
Anything with Earth (incl. Hermes, Chaos, Artemis, Narcissus)
Good Hammers: Attack + Empowering Guard / Rapid Slash, Dashing Heave, Unyielding

I kind of want to go Aphro attack since it's 80% vs 50% from Hera

but less Earth I guess, and Coarse Grit is so damn good

[dim kestrel]

true, though for the Oceanus vial equip you kinda want rare+ for Erebus boons that aren't your main rarity target, to force the rng

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1249798398236950628/image.png?ex=66689cf6&is=66674b76&hm=9eb99f52af2ee5a2905a90d7bc1559c82f083dc2346a3f25ed8abd316ede9cbf& I think this is my current Charon loadout

[tame spindle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1170037301645164636/1249798486074064896/image.png?ex=66689d0b&is=66674b8b&hm=ff08401ece4c9d5107c2709a44d498b088a62bb22220c01b4e1662b9c5135c25&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=859&height=473 ChronosCircleInvertedSmall

[quartz plaza]

What are sacrifice boons for Family Trade?

[dim kestrel]

no Furies, huh?

[civic ocean]

No need, the duos and moon are enough dmg at 32

[steel sequoia]

i usually start arcanas from here https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1249798728731197571/Sem_titulo.jpg?ex=66689d45&is=66674bc5&hm=2f7dec105498526e3dfaa5fc6a490b5e32ec12a084ab2489cb3300697f0994f2&

[dim kestrel]

also no Swift Runner.... that seems...

[steel sequoia]

than i fill 1st row if i wanna brrrrrrr or i fill 3rd row if i wanna cast

forgot to click defiance lmao

[tame spindle]

no origination or furies is interesting

[civic ocean]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1241160250829049909/1249799074614480996/image.png?ex=66689d97&is=66674c17&hm=b5bbb23ec9a7bd77fd4e933b739f9438cb3e0a0ef93439bbc21182e813620c6e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless helpful diagram of how I play Charon, no need fast dash for this

[spare kite]

When the god offers a trade of your core boons (attack/special/cast/dash/gain)
For their core at an upgraded rarity

Family trade makes one appear as early as possible and also adds some poms to it

[quartz plaza]

Got it, thank you!

[tame spindle]

how do u make use of artificer at 32?

is it really significant

[quartz plaza]

Is Spiteful Strength actually the most damage (+200%)? So no attack boon?

Just awkward AF to unlock, Hera into Heph and hope you get the duo fast

[steel sequoia]

i dont like it, 6 points too much

[spare kite]

S.strength is more fun than anything but yeah is the highest % for attack

[tame spindle]

for charon u always wanna start with hera for born gain, and then hephaestus is just really good in general in high fear or just for convenience

[tired fulcrum]

i swear the serpents are so annoying

[tame spindle]

ive tried hephaestus/hera duo for the special with apollo cast and its pretty cracked

[steel sequoia]

sweet words for saying born gain is broken just get it

[tired fulcrum]

I got spiteful strength in erebus on charon 40 then it proceeded to do nothing because i had apollo special already

[tame spindle]

honestly charon is good enough that u can get out of erebus without even needing other boons as long as u have mana regen

[tired fulcrum]

400 damage cast plus 140 omega damage special be like

And both hit the entire room

wait they better not nerf charon

[tame spindle]

doubt it

[arctic glacier]

I should try it....but me be lazy

[tame spindle]

charon seems incredibly healthy tbh

[tired fulcrum]

Unlike momus charon is actually fun

[tame spindle]

woah ive never had the bot tell me off before

[pulsar canopy]

👀

[arctic glacier]

👀

[steel sequoia]

charon aint broken, also casts might not be working with it properly

[pulsar canopy]

if cast isnt working with it properly then isnt it by definition broken

[tame spindle]

feel like cast is working as intended with it?

[tired fulcrum]

Except poseidon

[steel sequoia]

i meant an overpower not functionally damaged

[steel sequoia]

idk if apollo should work like that, the only boon that spams after the special slam

[tired fulcrum]

I mean its part of your omega cast

[steel sequoia]

like zeus is basically the same but doesnt act that way

[tame spindle]

thats literally the point of apollo cast

[tired fulcrum]

Zeus is the opposite

[tame spindle]

when it explodes it does that, whereas zeus' is it does that while the cast is active

[tired fulcrum]

Zeus applies before your omega, apollo applies after

[steel sequoia]

if u just cast zeus and just cast apollo they are different, not the same as omega casting

[tame spindle]

yeah, but charon activates ur omega cast

[tired fulcrum]

If you normal cast them its the exact same

Neither of them do anything if you normal cast

[steel sequoia]

so ur telling me zeus is broke and not apollo, im ok with that tbh

[tired fulcrum]

Zeus is just how the boon works

[tame spindle]

charon specifically activates the end part of ur omega cast, which is where apollo's effect is. both are working as intended

[steel sequoia]

feels confusing to me idk

[tame spindle]

tbf id like if more casts specifically affected the end part of the cast

i feel like poseidon's cast could be reworked somewhat because as is its kinda underwhelming

[steel sequoia]

yup, prolly will be or should do better with crashing wave

[tired fulcrum]

If poseidon cast worked then itd be good with charon but its buggy and kinda sucks

Also it cant even apply slip

[worthy plover]

momus' omega cast repeat doesn't each trigger torrential downpour right

[tired fulcrum]

Thats a good question, ngl they prob do?

Like charon can proc it

[worthy plover]

momus doesn't repeat solar ring so maybe not

[tired fulcrum]

True ig, the repeat omegas might be coded differently

[tame spindle]

poseidon cast in general just doesnt really do anything

[worthy plover]

i might have to test it tonight

[tired fulcrum]

Well you can actually increase its explosion damage by pomming unlike other casts

But it doesnt get damage increases from charon perk or furies

And it doesnt apply a status

[tame spindle]

well u can also increase the end damage from other casts though and often it can go way above poseidon's if u build well

like embarrassingly so

[tired fulcrum]

Only apollos but apollo has the issue of lingering so you cant recast, apollo is kinda just worse damage than spamming unless you stack duos on it

[tame spindle]

i guess poseidon's cast wants to be spammed a bunch but eh idk it doesnt seem like there are lots of cases where that works

[dim kestrel]

Just attempted a run, swapping Strength and Divinity for money and rerolls, using this Fear. I had a nice build going: got Born Gain, Lightning Lance and Hard Target in Erebus, followed by Zeus Special and Gale Force in Oceanus. Had used up 2 DDs in Erebus but got one back from Narcissus. Time was tight in Erebus (20 seconds of the 9:00), but damage output was great even without a main cast boon. Scars 3 was really what did me in ultimately though. Just too much little chip damage over time built up

[tame spindle]

i tried it with momus and its not that good for clearing because it knocks the enemies away so the second or third blasts don't get that many enemies

[worthy plover]

dark side with the "all casts become omega casts" upgrade? that's pretty hard to get though

[tame spindle]

i suppose

i guess just comparatively poseidon's cast seems a lot worse than the others

[steel sequoia]

lot of boons need reworking, thats no surprise

gains have the most problems imo

[dim kestrel]

gonna try backing off to Scars 2 and doing Suffering 1 instead, since I found in a lot of encounters I was taking no damage at all, but when I did get hit it was usually with a stream of projectiles or something

[robust prism]

yeah it's also weird that poseidon cast doesn't seem to be affected by stuff like the moon arcana for some reason?

if I'm not mistaken

[tired fulcrum]

Its affected by moon but not furies or charon cleave cast bonuses

[dim kestrel]

yeah, in general, Hera scales too well with rarity/poms, Zeus interaction with priming is too punishing, that and the other "conditional regen" ones (chiefly Aphro and Apollo) should work when you're in the relevant location even if you're doing other things there (such as channeling), the time you have to stand still before it starts working is probably too long for Demeter

Poseidon's is in a good place, I think

[hollow stag]

Is Omega cast worth using on Momus or is a regular cast better for 30% more damage?

[merry flint]

Well practically its too much work to cast all three omegas

[dim kestrel]

I've tended to do cast+attack and rarely special

[steel sequoia]

hera = busted
heph = good
pos = ok
apollo = ok
aphro = ok but should get rebalanced
dem = trash
hestia = trash
zeus = trash

[merry flint]

Unless your omega cast is apollo, just use the normal cast

[spare kite]

Is this gains

[steel sequoia]

yes

[dim kestrel]

Hestia gain is not trash, imo; I'd put that quite a bit higher in the list

[robust prism]

yeah hestia is good, heph isn't

[dim kestrel]

I prefer Hestia to Aphro for sure, and Hestia vs Apollo is build dependent

[steel sequoia]

20% of your health for a god that doesnt give you any is underwhelming imo

[robust prism]

wdym

[astral edge]

that's what the 10 centaur hearts you see across your run are for

[dim kestrel]

it's the only one besides Zeus that gives you no-strings-attached regen once you pay the passive price, and the regen rate is decent

[merry flint]

Hestia is definitely the best gain that isnt born gain

No strings attached, really good regen

[robust prism]

-20% health is fine given that the gain itself is very fast

[dim kestrel]

Zeus is shirt because you can't prime anything, but 20% health is a reasonable price to pay

[stone fog]

Or posiedon on something like torches

[wild pine]

Simply run max blood and suffering and you'll never care about 20% less health again

[robust prism]

haha

[wild pine]

Hearth Gain is also great for getting Antler back online if you forgot to disable Centaur

[merry flint]

Hera
Hestia
Poseidon, Apollo, Aphrodite
Demeter, Heph, Zeus

[robust prism]

seems about right yeah

[astral edge]

they really need to rebalance zeus given sacrificing 70% of your magick is so much worse than 20% of your health

[dim kestrel]

for builds that are really mana-intensive, Hestia gain can even be better than Hera gain if you have a low rarity Hera

[robust prism]

yeah Zeus gain is just terrible

[dim kestrel]

I've gotten stuck with no mana in boss fights using Born Gain with torches

[spare kite]

Where do y'all put chaos

[merry flint]

Hestias pretty balanced even for stuff like Torches

[merry flint]

Hestia tier

[astral edge]

chaos is good, so is arachne if you can keep the armor up

[robust prism]

probably would be number 2 after born gain if you get a decent regen rate

[merry flint]

The drawback is rng and getting chaos curse

[dim kestrel]

Chaos Mana regen is really good, yeah

[robust prism]

but it can strongly vary

[tall notch]

I like chaos mana cost reduction more than chaos regen

[dim kestrel]

it's just a question of whether it's offered and whether the price is reasonable

[wild pine]

I'd go something more like

Hera, Hestia
Poseidon, Aphro
Apollo, Demeter, Heph
Zeus

[astral edge]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[merry flint]

Hera's broken so she gets her own tier

[steel sequoia]

me2, helpos the casting time

[dim kestrel]

I really do not like Aphro gain

but otherwise this is a good tier list

[astral edge]

what's the condition for aphro again?

[robust prism]

aphro gain really depends

[merry flint]

Stand near weak

[dim kestrel]

proximity to something Weak

[astral edge]

oh
yeah that one is okay on bosses but otherwise, eh

[robust prism]

like if you're doing an artemis run or something then aphro gain is really good

[arctic glacier]

Apollo is not terrible

[robust prism]

but usually not great

[dim kestrel]

I guess in an Aphro-heavy build where you're throwing weak around all over it's probably ok

like Passion Dash makes it a lot better

since the weak follows you

[merry flint]

I feel apollo is more in your control than aphro gain

[dim kestrel]

for sure

[robust prism]

it's alright, I feel like only Zeus, Demeter and maybe Heph gains need a buff/rework

[tall notch]

Idk how to feel about the whole mana system. It often either does nothing or leaves you unable to do your main damage because you didn't luck out on regen

[dim kestrel]

you can sometimes just go stand in a corner and recharge with Apollo

but you don't have the waiting period you have for Demeter

[wild pine]

I'm putting them on the same tier because I can think of many situations where Born is better than Hearth, and also many situations where Hearth is better than Born. I'll grant that Born is probably the better option more often and has higher high points, especially in light of the currently-dominant speed-run and ultra-high-fear approaches. For for general/semi-casual 20 to 32 heat play I think both are very good and which is better depends on context.

[astral edge]

it just feels bad to be standing doing nothing
that one second feels much longer in the moment

[robust prism]

Demeter should probably just require you to not attack for a short time or something, if you can still move it would be alright

[merry flint]

There's also like, if your non omega stuff is decent you can just stand in your cast and do that while your mana regens

[dim kestrel]

yep

[merry flint]

I do it with Medea specials while i recover from omega special spam

[wild pine]

Similarly, I put Tranquil, Lucid, and Fixed gain on one tier not because I think they're all equally good in some abstract sense, but because I can think of plenty of real situations where I would prefer any one of them to the other two, but almost no situations where I'd rather have one of these than have Hearth or Born or Liquid

[dim kestrel]

and if you're doing, like, a melee axe build where you're throwing a Demeter cast down under you for supplementary damage/slowing, say, then Lucid Gain works great. Though that build probably doesn't need much mana to start with, so you'd probably just take whatever is in your pool

[robust prism]

fixed gain I guess might not be terrible technically, I mean the 10% damage reduction also isn't nothing, I just hate that you can't really control it

[dim kestrel]

The biggest drawback to Hearth I think isn't the health, it's dedicating a god pool slot to Hestia

[merry flint]

Fluid gain could use a few numbers tweak

[robust prism]

fair lmao

[dim kestrel]

I mean, there are certainly builds where that's not a drawback

[merry flint]

Who wants Hestia support
Who wants scorch on attack

[dim kestrel]

but in a lot of cases you don't have room for it

[spare kite]

How often do you want the full pool to be exactly who you need

[steel sequoia]

scorch is garbo, unless u are doing AQ you always want born gain

[merry flint]

4 god limit makes getting good gain boons a lot more managable

[spare kite]

Hestia as a 4th god doesn't make me annoyed ngl

[tall notch]

If Demeter (and earth in general) weren't so OP I'd be fine with dedicating a slot to Hestia

[merry flint]

Yeah free status and good option for gain if you feel it

But starting hestia sucks

[tall notch]

Good gain, good sprint, good cast

Air fryer is a thing too

[dim kestrel]

she also has a cast throw so if you're not using Zeus it's nice to have

and if you are doing Zeus you can probably get AQ

[wild pine]

It's not just about fear of hitting the 4-god cap, though. You tend to see a lot more total boons from your earlier-added gods than your later-added gods. You often want a Gain boon early. So, if you take or roll fore a Hestia door in erebus because you want the gain, you can expect to get another 3 or 4 Hestia boons down the line.

Personally I don't think that's awful, since I also kind of like Glowing Coal, Spontaneous Combustion, Smolder Ring, Soot Sprint, and Slow Cooker. But she does have a lot of bad boons.

[spare kite]

Her explode on death boon is neat at least

[wild pine]

And there's almost always someone else I'd rather be seeing.

[dim kestrel]

oh yeah, her dash is very good too

Hestia has a lot of nice boons that have nothing to do (or very little to do) with Scorch, honestly

[merry flint]

Her dash is better on surface i feel

[dim kestrel]

and her cast is decent

well, yeah, it's great as an anti-Eris option

[merry flint]

Now if it evaporated scythe throw....

[dim kestrel]

but projectiles are always a hazard

[tall notch]

She's got a lot of solid boons. Having a few bad ones doesn't matter that much when god pool is 4. I mean we're clicking Heph despite his core boons feeling garbage

[steel sequoia]

if ur getting hestia keepsake for the gain, you will probably have a hard time without any good atk/special boon for the early, at least hera compensate thats a little. tho if you are lucky you can manage that. as someone said earth is OP so hestia is not in a good spot anyways.

[wild pine]

On Underworld Soot Sprint is mid as sprints go, I think. I'd rather have Apollo or Demeter sprint almost always, and whether I prefer Hestia or Heph or Hera depends on circumstance. But you Soot Sprint is good enough that I'm fine with it, since demeter has more amazing boons than I'm likely to get with one run

[tall notch]

I'll be waiting for boon balance where the earth gods get adjusted. They're just all too strong on their own AND synergise well

[steel sequoia]

heph is fine like u picking an attack while playing pan, dont ruin ur build and gives you solid sup

[merry flint]

Definitely hoping that sprint boons affect dash too

[spare kite]

Welcome back divine dash

[steel sequoia]

well defense is basically the core for high fear + born gain being in earth

[merry flint]

Yes sir i love being carried 🫡

Ngl i hope they add more boons that modify casts without taking up the ring slot

[tall notch]

• Demeter has the best cast for anything that isn't an omega cast build... but even Charon plays her nowadays so I'm not sure about the "isn't an omega cast build" part

[dim kestrel]

I haven't tried a fire daggers build at higher fear, but something like Hestia Attack, Aphrodite dash, and things that give you + attack power (Hestia's infusion, say, and Aphrodite's prime boon), and then picking up AQ... I'm not sure the order of operations between AQ and Origination, I guess, so could be anti-synergy there

[robust prism]

yeah I really like those

[limpid coral]

my intuition says air quality always applies last, but idk lol

[dim kestrel]

that'd be my guess, but yeah

[merry flint]

Theres Zeus and Hestia cast throws, Apollo Supernova, Demeter Gale Force and thats it?

[steel sequoia]

hopefully they fix most of the problems in boon rebalancing/reworking patch

[spare kite]

Honestly yeah, they are fun

[dim kestrel]

in terms of "secondary" cast boons?

[robust prism]

demeter local climate also

[merry flint]

Mix n match casts are fun

[spare kite]

Dad's cast too

[steel sequoia]

if i see 70% gain after patch ill tilt

[merry flint]

Yeah thats one too yeah

Wow demeter has a lot of cast mods

[robust prism]

I kinda want a cast that moves somehow

[steel sequoia]

i think local climate could go to hestia, ngl

[dim kestrel]

so, a Blade Rift?

[robust prism]

why hestia specifically

[steel sequoia]

play wells with zeus

[robust prism]

basically?

[steel sequoia]

and balance an earth to another build

[robust prism]

it is slightly weird that Demeter has 2 secondary cast boons

[tall notch]

I wish we got a cast that goes all in on the idea of buffing you when you stand in it. No idea which god would fit that though

[merry flint]

Id say apollo tbh

[robust prism]

yeah Apollo

[dim kestrel]

Heph's cast just seems really bad, so I could see replacing it with something more "forged-weapon" themed

[spare kite]

Make eris give actual boons

[dim kestrel]

Arthur Special style?

[steel sequoia]

i like it, the size is weird tho

[robust prism]

I mean heph's cast would be fine if it wasn't just so ridiculously small

[dim kestrel]

the size reduction is awful, yeah

[robust prism]

maybe it's ok with supernova? don't think I've ever tried that

[limpid coral]

wonder if its additive or multiplicative with super nova

[robust prism]

but probably still bad since the size increase is percentage based

[steel sequoia]

helps a bit but if u are going supernova u might want solar ring instead lmao

[tall notch]

A hyper-aggressive god that boosts both damage done and damage taken would be spicy

[karmic gust]

It would also help if it just hit once per second of active cast instead of three times. Anything that extends the cast time just makes it have larger intervals between dmg

[dim kestrel]

depends if Heph is also doing percentage math, such that both would be using the base size as the base

[robust prism]

I mean not if my build doesn't really have space to use the omega cast

[merry flint]

Yeah engagement ring needs some fixes with the secondary casts

[robust prism]

true

that should probably go in feedback

[merry flint]

Stuff like gale force dying before i can cast another boon is annoying

[quartz plaza]

Do we know base damage + attack speed for each weapon / aspect anywhere?

[karmic gust]

Attack speed is in the files probably (idk how to get that) but dmg numbers you can just look at them yourself

[quartz plaza]

Where?

Is there a way to unlock Rank VI for aspects?

[robust prism]

no

[tall notch]

Heph legendary iirc

[robust prism]

heph's legendary gets you rank 6 temporarily for one run though

[steel sequoia]

Fine Tuning > Bonus Aspect Ranks: +1

[spare kite]

Most aspects are just the linear scale iirc except persephone and one other aspect I think?

[surreal hazel]

So uhhh, Turns out lunar ray can go hard sometimes: https://youtu.be/FIwOWV2T-2w?t=362 (Timestamped at the most notable part, this was also a straight up phase skip for cerberus)

[steel sequoia]

how many selenes to get that?

[errant apex]

how do I reduce the amount of prime I've gathered? I've noticed it goes down sometimes

[surreal hazel]

in that game, quite a few, but the key detail was Disintergration and Triple ray

[surreal hazel]

Depends on the source.

[dim kestrel]

just checked the code, and Heph cast boon is applying a 0.55 multiplier to the "damage radius" of the cast, whereas SuperNova applies a 1.4 (at base) Area Increase multiplier to "cast projectile". Not sure why they seem to be acting on different properties or if it's really true that one is affecting the radius and the other the area... but if we assume they multiply together then it would indeed reduce the impact of Super Nova to use it together with the Heph cast

[spare kite]

Rn arrogance vow prime gets removed if you pom the boon (bug)

[cinder fog]

Hello. Can someone help me with Medea? Is there any boon to get imune while doing special cast there? I watched few videos, people just special-dash through map back and forth. And when I try that I do the dash right into attacks and can't do anything about it.

[surreal hazel]

One's a fixed change, the other is an expanding effect?

[dim kestrel]

if it is indeed applying to the radius of the circle, a 0.55 multiplier means a -70% to the size of the circle, which is really brutal

[worthy plover]

there isn't; it's really just precise positioning and timing

[quartz plaza]

base damage here: https://hades2.game-vault.net/wiki/Moonstone_Axe

[steel sequoia]

oh thats how its working, i didnt even noticed it was this

[robust prism]

ok nah having to wait for it to expand only for it to still be significantly smaller than a regular cast by the end is never gonna be worth it I don't think

[dim kestrel]

yeah, that's probably why they're acting on different properties. It's not clear to me what impact the different parameters actually has though

Apollo's has some other numbers there that presumably affect the rate at which it expands, etc, but I'd have to go looking for the actual functionality that uses those values

[surreal hazel]

While you're in there, is there a fixed effect that Nova Strike and Flourish have to make attacks bigger? Or is it something the weapons do when they have those boons?

[dim kestrel]

yeah, it's weapon by weapon

they have a ProjectileScale property

[surreal hazel]

and it's varying numbers each time?

[limpid coral]

I'd have expected each weapon to have a regular hitbox and an apollo hitbox cause it's easier to develop

[surreal hazel]

(rather than just like, +50% bigger)

[dim kestrel]

and a Blast Radius multiplier, which is separate, apparently

yeah, some weapons it's 40% and others 20%

[surreal hazel]

I guess it makes sense. +50% on the dagger is 1.5x of not much, but the axe that'd be crazy

and it is crazy bigger as it is

[dim kestrel]

yeah, Staff and Dagger are the ones with the bigger (1.4) multiplier

also blast radius is presumably the linear measure, and so a 1.2 multiplier on the radius is a 1.44 multiplier on the area

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, which takes us back to supernova's effect looking WAY bigger than a naive reading would give

likewise with Stellar Slam

[spare kite]

Is Charon's cast size increase similar

[dim kestrel]

yeah. Might be the "projectile" param is for graphics, and the "blast radius" param is for the actual damage?

[surreal hazel]

assuming their even are graphics... looking at you, haphestus

[dim kestrel]

Charon's cast size... probably, that'll be in another file, so let me look for it

[surreal hazel]

What on earth, this wiki says Hermes has a boon called Split Second? I'm guessing that's currentl unobtainable

[dim kestrel]

hah, haven't found the Charon aspect data yet but I did run across the name of the sound file that plays when you block a hit with the axe special, which is called "ZagreusShieldRicochet"

[spare kite]

Same sound effect from H1?

[surreal hazel]

that's just a re-used effect from blocking in the first game, yeah

[dim kestrel]

it sounds like the same effect to me

idk if the actual sound file itself is the same

[worthy plover]

are there still global damage buffs in hades 2?

(e.g. how does tall order/mean streak work)

[surreal hazel]

There's a +X% damage effect that applies after all other damage bonuses are calculated

[worthy plover]

so same as hades 1 then?

[spare kite]

If it says deal more dmg then is global yeah (there are some exceptions iirc but I don't remember if it's bad wording or bug)

[surreal hazel]

uuuugh, hang on, Infusions are all common rank? No-wonder I never seem to see those much

[spare kite]

I wonder why they decided that lmao

[dusty sapphire]

they count as common for the purposes of the Vow of Arrogance but not for Uncommon Grace

which is especially weird

[dim kestrel]

The Charon axe aspect (axepect?) has a parameter that acts as a multiplier and scales up with rarity, but it's not either of the same property names as the Apollo or Heph parameters. It seems to apply to something called ValidProjectileIdMultiplier

[spare kite]

Also means is harder to see them with divinity/excellence no
And yarn/chaos favor

[tall notch]

Huh so anything that gives rarity is detrimental for infusions

[surreal hazel]

Infusions are also selected against by rarities

[dim kestrel]

doesn't that just mean their rarity doesn't count for anything? Like, "counting as common" for Vow of Arrogance just means VoA ignores them, right? And not counting as common for Uncommon Grace also means UG ignores them

[surreal hazel]

if a slot is rolled to be anything other than common, an infusion won't appear there

[dim kestrel]

so that seems consistent to me

[surreal hazel]

Uncommon Grace is looking for boons that could be Rare or better

[tired fulcrum]

They do seem rarer ~~except the useless ones ~~

[dim kestrel]

I mean, Chaos boons could be, but they're still not counted, right

[dusty sapphire]

actually you're right, that's probably how that works internally, they just are null rarity or smth.

[surreal hazel]

Uncommon Grace also seems to ignore itself, Bridal Glow and Rare Crop

[dim kestrel]

oh, sorry, you're talking about Infusions, not Chaos boons, but still, same logic

[dusty sapphire]

(disclaimer: this is not a datamined thing I literally just speculated from nowhere don't murder me mods)

[wild pine]

I think Heph is ... whatever the single-player equivalent of a pubstomp/noobstomp build is

[dim kestrel]

buncha damage in a really targeted fashion?

[spare kite]

I see it

[surreal hazel]

it's the "Screw that guy in particular" thing

[cinder fog]

Is there a way to disable arcana card? I see now that most youtubers have XIII The Centaur turned off.

[tall notch]

Heph is just op

[spare kite]

There's a speedrun file that has it disabled

[wild pine]

Sorry, I was replying to a post about anvil ring specifically. I think it's really good as a crutch for early runs, especially paired with a ranged cast option. It shreds early biomes and when you don't yet have Origination or even Moon it's honestly great damage considering how little investment it takes. Then you get to fields/tartarus and cry over your lack of CC and discover that in a full-grasp high-fear context that aren't really any builds that leverage it especially well.

[tall notch]

If you want to roll over early biomes, Hera has a cast

[dim kestrel]

it seems the elemental infusion boons have their own special rarity tag, which is consistent with the behavior observed

[limpid coral]

How does it interact with +rarity effects? (excellence etc)

[worthy plover]

you can't get hera until you unlock surface though, right?

[tall notch]

O wait yeah that was a thing

[wild pine]

Also, Anvil Ring shreds Hecate while Engagement Ring ... okay also speeds the fight way up if you already know how to fight Hecate but not if you're timid about getting in there and hitting her with sticks

[prisma rapids]

I tend to avoid this channel because of not wanting to get influenced by meta builds, and thereby not testing everything myself, so forgive me if this is uncovered. Have people discussed funeral pyre being bugged, or is this intended in your opinions? #h2-feedback message

[spare kite]

Funeral is just silly like that (yeah, prob bug)

[prisma rapids]

Either way, for no-magicka builds, if for some reason you want to run it, it currently functions by allowing you to channel even without magicka and just scorch every close mob. Could be useful by allowing you to put up a second curse for the extra damage for curse afflicted mobs at least

[spare kite]

Can also do this #h2-builds-and-combat message

[prisma rapids]

Can't believe that's in the game still, shudder

[quartz plaza]

really wish there were tooltips on https://hades2-crossroads.vercel.app/pencil-meta

[magic hill]

how does the moon arcana card interact with the apollo/zeus cast

[low bear]

I finally got my 42 Fear Mel Axe win

[spare kite]

Only the explosion of the cast is affected

[low bear]

my damage was still bad but Coarse Grit allowed me to bum rush phase 2 Chronos in less than 1 minute just going full offensive lol

[low bear]

imagine if it added 100 power to each zeus lightning bolt lol

[calm arch]

rest in peace silver streak bug

[quartz plaza]

What's the best way to level up my Keepsakes?

And what happens if I have a boon that requires 30 mana to prime but I don't have enough mana to prime 30?

[spare kite]

pray they change how that works

[spare kite]

Just avoid any free room that skips combats and take sll the detours in tart

[spare kite]

It'll prime anyways, you'll stay at 0/0

[violet temple]

do infusion boons get eliminated by vow of forsaking

because I just had to choose between weed killer and coarse grit on an omega attack build 😭

[spare kite]

Yeah

[violet temple]

rip

[quartz plaza]

Massively overthinking a build -- how many boons should I plan for? I made a list of all boons that might be helpful:

Special: Wave Flourish (Pos) [water] (unlock Duo)
Cast: Arctic Ring (Dem) [water]
Dash: Passion Dash (Aphro) [air]
Magick: Fixed Gain (Heph) [earth] (unlock Duo)

# Aphro

Wispy Wiles: +15% Dodge [req 4 air]
Healthy Rebound:  Restore Life [water]
Secret Crush: Prime 20 to add Power [air]
Life Affirmation: +40% Bonus Life Gain [air]
Shameless Attitude: +10% Damage if 80%+ Life [air]
Broken Resolve: +10% Dmg Reduc from Weak [water]
Sweet Surrender: +10% Damage vs. Week [water]
Ecstatic Obsesssion: Charm 1 if 3+ Foes [air] [legendary]

Island Getaway: +15% Damage Res [duo: Aphro/Pos]
Soft Caress: Damage to Healing [duo: Aphro/Heph]
Hearty Appetite: +10% Dmg / 100 Life [duo: Aphro/Dem]
 req. Plentiful Forage / Winter Coat
 req. Shameless / Life Affirmation / Healthy Rebound

# Dem

Coarse Grit: max dmg/hit 15 if 6+ Earth
Rare Crop: boons become common, gain rarirty [earth]
Gale Force: casts create Cyclone [water]
Plentiful Forage: +5 life from gathering [earth] (run shovel)
Winter Coat: prime to absorb 1 damage [earth]

Natural Selection: +20% Boon Rarity [Duo: Dem/Pos]
 req. Winter Coat / Rare Crop
 req. Ocean's Bounty, Sunken Treasure, Double Up

# Heph

Martial Art: 5% dmg per earth
Trusty Shield: Prime 30 to gain +10 Armor [earth]
Mint Condition: Impervious at Encounter Start (8s) [earth]
Heavy Metal: Gain 50 Armor [earth]
Uncanny Fortitude: +20% Health from Magick Limmit [earth]

# Pos

Water Fitness: 4+ water, gain 100 life
Double Up: Double Reward 20% [water]
Hydraulic Might: +100% Damage for 10s [water]
Flood Control: Prime 30 mana to reduce damage by 2 [water]
Sunken Treasure: Gain 90 gold and other [water]
Ocean's Bounty: Minor Finds and gold worth 50% more [water]

# Artemis

Pressure Points: +3% Crit [earth]
First Blood: +10% Crit to Foes with 80%+ Health/Armor [earth]
Lethal Strike: +8% Crit to Foes in cast [earth]
Support Fire: 10 ARrow Damage to Attacks [air]
Death Warrant: 30% Crit to Random Foe [earth]

# Hermes

Greater Evasion: +10% Dodge [air]
Swift Strike +10% Attack Speed [earth]
Quick Buck: +20% Gold, 100 gold [air]
Hard Target: Foe Projectile Speed -30% [air]
Nitro Boost: Sprint is 15% faster and barrier [air]
Mean Strike: +1% Damage per Slain Foe [air]
Close Call: DD+1 [legendary]

# Narcissus

Heavenly Splendor (+2 earth/water/air/fire)```

Erm that is a lot longer than I expected it to be. Wish I could collapse it somehow :(

[limpid coral]

that seems like so much effort instead of think for 5 seconds and clicky click

[karmic gust]

I really dislike having sucks do dmg, visually it feels weird, especially since the fat yellow ghosts in the fields don’t do dmg during that. Changing the vampire mini boss and chronos’ attack animations for those moves would make it seem more consistent

[quartz plaza]

look i love theorycrafting ok

[spare kite]

What weapon is this even

[quartz plaza]

moonstone axe

melinone aspect, no magick build

[spare kite]

Why do you even want aphro/pos then

[quartz plaza]

i think it's probably not feasible to get 4 water and 4 air and 6 earth right?

Aphro for the best attack (+80%)

[spare kite]

If you wanna gamble on chaos

[quartz plaza]

I think the build is probably trying to do too many things. How many boons should I consider focusing on?

Aphro/Pos gets you big hp totals

[spare kite]

Mel axe I'd just take aphro, pray for dashing heave and call it a day

[quartz plaza]

and Aphro/Dem gets you damage for health

[spare kite]

Or hera atk + dem cast, make up dmg with origination and you can build towards 6 earth

[sage compass]

Is zeus double strike == second strike?

[karmic gust]

It would be cool if duo boons counted as two elements

[spare kite]

Yeah

[quartz plaza]

Hera is super underwhelming apart from being earth esp if no magick where i don't care about the mana regen

[karmic gust]

It’s a worse double strike

[spare kite]

Hera has the 2nd highest %

She's not bad by any means
Being earth just makes her even better

[violet temple]

nah hera is pretty good

hitch, %, earth,

duo with heph op

[limpid coral]

Earth is like, only because coarse grit with monster damage curse?

[spare kite]

Most earth boons are also insane in general

[violet temple]

both infusions are pretty good but coarse grit especially

[quartz plaza]

I assume Hestia, Zeus, and Apollo are trash for Melinoe axe

How many boons should I aim for in a build? 5? 8? 10?

Obviously not getting 20 boons in a run, right?

[violet temple]

zeus might be alright since you apply blitz and proc it like every other attack

[spare kite]

20 on purpose boons no lol

[surreal hazel]

Apollo is great for the axe

[violet temple]

and apollo gets extra size

[surreal hazel]

You really feel the size increase

[violet temple]

the most consistent builds are the ones that require the least amount of specific boons

[spare kite]

For coarse grit I just, see earth click earth (unless is heph where I first roll for mint/trusty)

[quartz plaza]

apollo extra size on cast?

[violet temple]

it's alright, mostly would take on charon

[surreal hazel]

Heph has martial art and can help with hestia's slow cooker, and they multiply together

[civic ocean]

There's no point in deciding on a set number

[violet temple]

martial art is good on its own as well

[civic ocean]

This is a roguelike you have like 3 or 4 core boons and then you adapt depending on what you're offered

[quartz plaza]

still you want to be building toward some theme or concept right? e.g. 6 earth for coarse grit

[surreal hazel]

The core is more sbout the two weapon mods you get per run

[quartz plaza]

You can't reroll hammer sadly, it feels so rng

[surreal hazel]

That's why you pick boons around them

[spare kite]

Bad hammer rng is just what makes me consider experimental hammer on fields

[civic ocean]

You can build towards CG sure but you don't get to pick exactly which 6

[surreal hazel]

I always take experimental hammer on fields

[spare kite]

I play torches mainly idc about hammers that much

[surreal hazel]

And take hammers last in big rooms on fields in case echo is there to give me another one

With the anvil at the end, it's possible to fight chronos with 5 weapon mods

[woeful wind]

Just wondering, does the sorceress arcana card not work with the torches?

[calm arch]

it works on the special

[woeful wind]

Ohhhh, but not on the omega attack?

I was using aspect of moros earlier and there was obviously no slow effect on the enemies

[violet temple]

yep

[quartz plaza]

Does it last to Chronos?

[past salmon]

Yeh

[surreal hazel]

Almost always

I've had one case where it didn't

[past salmon]

Unless Ur taking 9 billion extra rooms

[surreal hazel]

If the game even lets you

[woeful wind]

Has it always been this way? Or has it changed since the patch? I never really used the attacks before the patch, only special on torches

[past salmon]

Always I believe

[surreal hazel]

Always

Attack is great now

[civic ocean]

The reason it doesn't slow time is that it deals damage as it charges. Only case of that happening anymore.

[violet temple]

does apollo's legendary work with momus

[summer heart]

momus doesn't repeat it

[violet temple]

😔

[karmic gust]

The keyword is Attack, so it doesn’t affect the Omega Attack. If something affects both, it will say Attacks plural.

[civic ocean]

Thats huntress

[karmic gust]

Oops I’m trolling

Yeah it’s weird because everything else that affects “channeling” does affect torch omega attack

Not sure why it doesn’t, you use it as often as things like the omega spec and cast on other builds

[errant apex]

@bleak night yooo thanks for the guidance! #h2-victory-boasting message

[past salmon]

gg!

[timber pawn]

Congrats!

[timber pawn]

It's persephone week in the speedcord. You should give it a go

[past salmon]

yeh ik but Persephone is like poop for speed 😭

[civic ocean]

what is persephone week

did they verify my run yet

[past salmon]

yeh

[spare kite]

Everyone runs persephone to see who gets the fastest run
Or highest fear

[errant apex]

I hope they'll never nerf engraved pin, that keepsake is carrying my ass

[past salmon]

My 45F run is already being used as an example
I actually did try a couple 47/48 runs yesterday but its super rough

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246695893361496087/1249857467857240084/image.png?ex=6668d3f9&is=66678279&hm=7af94eeeb61752035bffbeb999b996733a40b790971cda084cad448c5e99c2fe&
@civic ocean

[timber pawn]

I need you to figure it out because I couldn't 🫠. My best was a 10:03

Two folks managed sub-9 which is wild to me lol

[civic ocean]

hell yeah current 32F pers WR

and I'm not even going fast

[past salmon]

thats crazy acc

[civic ocean]

did those two get silver streak

is silver streak allowed

[past salmon]

nah im pretty sure they just got possessed array and ignored the aspect 😭

[timber pawn]

One of em didn't ignore aspect

But some of the others did lol, possessed carrying atm

Maybe some of them will post vods, tbd I guess

[past salmon]

I think like antler start and just play discount medea until build is online ig is the way
Idk what best build is tho

[timber pawn]

That's kinda what I ended up trying

[timber pawn]

Ya it hasn't been blacklisted or anything

[civic ocean]

Seems like that would be da wae

[timber pawn]

Someone did get a 6:59 with mel skull

Main issue with persephone is that the omega special is just... Not great?

[past salmon]

makes sense
Mel skull is rlly good

[vale axle]

Does the duo boon where damage is increased when not powered by boon count chaos boons ?

[timber pawn]

Like I don't have a clip but I managed to use a whole persephone omega special around chronos and somehow I just took off 1 blue heart and did no damage lol

[past salmon]

See I can make it do numbers in high fear but it requires setup and its also mainly a room clear tool over a boss killer

[civic ocean]

you gotta angle it weirdge now

[timber pawn]

Right, do you have sorceress on in that setup? I assume?

[civic ocean]

also sometimes I just don't use it anymore lol just to invul the chronos instakills

[past salmon]

uhhh maybe im not sure actually
Sorceress kind of annoys me

[timber pawn]

It's a really long charge without it imo, I kept getting smacked trying to use it

[past salmon]

I mean Perseph definitely can go fast
Like I had a run just before my 45F win that was at chronos at like 15m on 45F which is crazy

and then I died

[timber pawn]

Ya for sure. I mean on a good run I was getting like 10m, but I have no clue how to bridge the gap from there to 8 lol

[past salmon]

damn do I need to start grinding 32F again

[civic ocean]

hit more chaos

[timber pawn]

True

[civic ocean]

why stop

[past salmon]

I had a run on pace for low 7m on 32F Medea and I died 1 room before chronos it was tragic

[timber pawn]

F

[past salmon]

I got too upset 😭

[civic ocean]

I think between 32-40 is where the game probably feels the most fun atm where it's challenging enough that you can't win every run if you try and do diff builds but not like "you will lose and die unless you highroll you idiot" like 41-50

[past salmon]

42 is probs fine
It starts becoming stupid when onion

[civic ocean]

ye

[past salmon]

which imo pretty much every weapon wants to take onion at 45

[plain fossil]

this is why yall should play surface u get to onion and nobody cares

[tired fulcrum]

Only boons that actually fill the core slot

[quartz plaza]

which site is that from?

[past salmon]

Speedrun.com

[alpine topaz]

is it just me or is aetheric moonburst like nerf worthy good with aspect of momus

[plain fossil]

right now im more of a fan of dual and giga moonburst for damage since born gain solves mana forever and the other two give a lot more room safety and timer buffer

[past salmon]

maybe in a post born gain world

[plain fossil]

aetheric for me is more like ok if i cant find the other two and i dont wanna play attack momus/vampiric cataclysm also isnt there then this one is fine

yea born gain is just too good, its relatively less good on momus since u do have some opportunity to run in circles and regen mana with hearth gain/lucid gain or whatever but still never having to ever think about mana midfight is so strong

[plain fossil]

btw i changed my mind on omega cast on momus its ok on boss if u have the time + the ranged cast that u should be aiming for anyway

i dont think its useful enough to click moon but its fine to throw in there

the only catch is that its less mana efficient so in some cases i was having to like not click it even though it was in my head because id run out of born gain before chronos died

[gleaming drum]

anyone else feeling like the twilight curse (sheep turning hex) is a bit broken?

[plain fossil]

its okay for what it is

expensive crowd control with a windup with 1 boon investment and decent amount of upside with 2+ boons

[gleaming drum]

it's very easy to proc, and there is an epic unlock in the path of stars that makes the sheeped enemies explode if you kill them, letting you almost instaclear packs

[plain fossil]

doesnt fit in a lot of builds but if im in the market for a hex and i cant find wolf howl then i'll click it sometimes

[civic ocean]

Hexes should feel pretty strong casually though tbf

Like all of them

[signal charm]

Anyone else having difficulty with the aspect of Artemis? It’ll say my parry is ready and give me the green shield icon, then when I get hit my omega attack gets cancelled and I take damage… am I missing something?

[plain fossil]

most of the epic unlocks are really cool its just u need a pile of investment to get to them and the question is, is it worth the bother over getting 2 god boons that make ur build better from the start of a round and dont require u to use a bunch of mana

for purple stuff its more like 2 god boons and a keepsake or 3 god boons or 2 + a lucky minor in fields and its often just hard to justify

i dont mind sheep hex, same as i dont mind most of the hexes except darkside which can eat my ass, but im not excited to click any of them unless i see full moon wolf howl

[gleaming drum]

I guess I should clarify, I'm running the arcana that gives me passive hex gain, and I sometimes take Selene's keepsake in oceanus if I got already a hex I like in erebus. Might take it in fields too. I also like running builds that are attack focused with aoe like zeus or hera.
But right now I think I would take the sheep hex over any other.

[limpid coral]

sheep is only 50 mana now so it plays a lot in zones 3 and 4

[trim summit]

Yeah I feel like path of stars should be linked to fountains and not cost giving up another book

Boon*

[ionic imp]

Just curious what y’all think of Aphrodite cast. It seems much stronger than I️ intially thought

[plain fossil]

aph cast is fine i actually like it on charon

[limpid coral]

weak is good, succ is good

[plain fossil]

most other builds i dont really want the succ

[limpid coral]

why not?

[plain fossil]

because one of the ways to get killed is if theres mobs near u

[limpid coral]

I mean u drop the cast dash out and then theyre all grouped up, you swing into them and they die

[plain fossil]

if there was a cast that punted enemies id click that uh well not 10 times out of 10 because arctic ring is still broken

[ionic imp]

Just beat 32 fear chronos for the first time using Thanatos axe. Being able to pull stuff in was great, especially since it seemed to stagger enemy attacks

[trim summit]

Well obviously you’re casting while dashing away

[plain fossil]

this is what happens in good case, in bad case ie if my weapon doesnt have range it becomes dangerous to get in

[limpid coral]

oh like the swords

[plain fossil]

like if im playing medea or mel blades or other build with poor range i do not want the succ at all

[limpid coral]

fair enough

[plain fossil]

and if im playing something with range then i dont really want something pulling mobs closer since once the cast runs out it might pull them within charge range depending on the mob

but i mean when its good its good

[limpid coral]

succ pulls enemies at the end of the cast?

[plain fossil]

it sucks 1 time per second i think?

[limpid coral]

i thought it was just for the duration

[plain fossil]

something like that? u can see the effect

[limpid coral]

maybe I just don't remember, usually it goes like i drop the cast and then at the end i'm decently far or enough of them died that i don't notice enemies getting flung at me or anything

[plain fossil]

they dont get flung at u its just any enemy at the far end of the cast/that walks in partway will necessarily end closer to u than it was right

and sometimes that makes me nervous

[gleaming drum]

I often find myself not sure about which keepsakes to run in oceanus and fields, specially the second one. I feel selene's is not a bad choice if you already got your core god in erebus. Should I level up chaos or icarus?

[limpid coral]

chaos has a decent chance at being really good

so leveling up just puts a bigger number on really good

[plain fossil]

chaos is an ok click, phial is also good depending on ur start since its useful to take ur main core boon to heroic, experimental hammer kinda bad in oceanus since it will run out before run-end but ok in fields if ur weapon doesnt have trash hammers, selene is a very rare pick for me but u can click it especially in fields since sometimes u get a free selene next to good stuff, if u feel like gambling u can click arcana card keepsake or echo keepsake

[spare kite]

I'm an embryo for fields addict

[gleaming drum]

i haven't been able to gift echo yet, I guess I need to keep progressing the interactions

[plain fossil]

embryo is a LOT better if ur a mana build

[limpid coral]

i used to just take chaos zone 1 for the fun of it

god keepsakes are nice if i want to force something thats always good

[plain fossil]

if u dont need mana/have solved mana then its kinda bad since the odds u hit something good for ur build are rly low

[limpid coral]

it has a chance at double gold so u can buy that nightmare lol

[spare kite]

One day I'll get use of the epic creation

[limpid coral]

though usually thats unnecessary

[spare kite]

Also one time it gave me chant so I won't stop taking it lmfao

[gleaming drum]

one the other hand, does anyone use anything other than knuckles for the last zone? I feel it's too good to pass lol

[spare kite]

I just take hermes nowadays

And just prefer tooth for serious runs cuz I keep neglecting hearts

[plain fossil]

i dont usually click knuckles the damage isnt very good and the damage reduction can be okay but doesnt stack with coarse grit + a decent chunk of the damage u take on chronos can be environmental or from hourglasses

im more of a tooth or moros pin guy, or fleece if i rly forgot to click damage

droplet and hammer are also things i consider

[gleaming drum]

ok, interesting

[plain fossil]

knucklebones isnt like absolutely awful or anything its just imo theres usually better things to click

[tired fulcrum]

the damage it does literally doesnt matter since it only shortens the easiest phase

[summer heart]

i dunno am i crazy for thinking gramps the first is harder than gramps the second

[civic ocean]

A little bit yeah

[spare kite]

If p2.2 wasn't how it was I'd kinda gree

[quartz plaza]

spiteful strength trip report:
exactly one hera boon offered so far...

also you do very bad damage without boons who knew

last possible moment https://i.imgur.com/I867qwF.png

[meager bramble]

Not at all

At least on my fairly low heat runs (I've only beaten gramps up to like 6) - none of the OHKOs are really that hard

And that aside, most of Chronos' patterns seem to be less... frenetic? On phase 2

[spare kite]

During the first half he goes back to the single combos from p1 first half

[meager bramble]

The arena being smaller honestly helps, I feel

[summer heart]

what do you mean?

[meager bramble]

Doesn't he also not do the triple combos on half 2 of phase 2?

[spare kite]

P2.2 he goes back to triple dash and similar along with the floor effects (and the 8~ tempus)

[meager bramble]

I feel like only double, or am I wrong?

[summer heart]

oh, phase 2 part 2, okay

[spare kite]

The tempus can quickly turn into a projectile mess which I don't like

You try to focus on them and watch out is chronos with the steel chair

[summer heart]

idk, i've gotten got by the tempus, like, once ever

[meager bramble]

I mean they can , but they spawn very predictably and aren't exactly tanky

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1249902551709646928/image.png?ex=6668fdf6&is=6667ac76&hm=05baaec3ea5d92ce060ff5ac3c424530d6fb3e735132315d0bc94c353825cb8c& as long as you are not standing inside the circle in this SS and pay attention to what Chronos is doing even at 40% faster enemies it's super hard for him to reliably damage you, like at all

[quartz plaza]

coarse grit never offered :(

[spare kite]

That said there's a lot less overlap of attacks on p2 so I enjoy it a bit more

[quartz plaza]

wait what's the protip for avoiding chronos damage?

[spare kite]

And learning to iframe the insta kills is just fun

[civic ocean]

I phase one you just kinda have to avoid this deadzone in front of him and play behind him or far away from him and be ready for boomerange

[quartz plaza]

i try to always stay behind him

[civic ocean]

it depends on what you're doing obv

[plain fossil]

U can also stand in his face and dash behind when he starts moving, i generally do this as it also avoids frisbee

[civic ocean]

but I think that SS is actually super illustrative - that circle in front of chronos is where you stand if you want to get popped for like 100 damage

[charred lintel]

honestly, with the way chronos turns super fast, i've found the only way to reliably dodge the boomerang is to either be far away, or stand to his left and then move to his right after he throws it

[spare kite]

Abusing the poor old man's back issues is my fav way to figut

[plain fossil]

But u need to be focused only on chronos bc if u space out in his face and he does anything it will hit u

[civic ocean]

You can be at the edge of it and dash in too yeah

Dashing in is tough if he snap charges in p3 some builds actually can't outrun him if the first dash goes through your cast when can happen

esp with ranged casts

[quartz plaza]

"only" took 246 damage from chronos this time

[charred lintel]

thats pretty good! at least by non speedrunners standards

[quartz plaza]

spiteful strength! https://i.imgur.com/0QplddG.png (so sloooow)

since i didn't get spiteful strength until room 41 o.O

[charred lintel]

that looks familiar

reminds me of someone from h1

[quartz plaza]

trip report: not worth going for spiteful strength, pay off is way, way way too late

[plain fossil]

A kill is a kill

[quartz plaza]

was doing Judgment arcana for the prophecy too

[civic ocean]

its usually not really worth to go for spiteful on a weapon aspect where ur using regular attacks since a big reason it's good is that Born Gain is a component

[magic moss]

what to grab for second debuff on charon i forgor

[civic ocean]

demeter usually

[magic moss]

rly not glorious?

well ig triple earth is just broken as hell nvm

[civic ocean]

Hera+Apollo+Demeter+Zeus is usually the build for Charon

[steel sequoia]

lmao i just killed cerb with 6 pos pan specials

[plain fossil]

I gave up on apollo charon ngl ive been having more success with demeter cast

[civic ocean]

this is good it's just sauceless

[plain fossil]

Glorious disaster just gives u more of what u alrdy have

[magic moss]

yeah its feeling like you need to high roll a lot more as well

time to once again fish for trusty shield

[plain fossil]

Thats ok i dont need to prove im the smartest guy in the room i just wanna win

[magic moss]

antler by beloved

[civic ocean]

like wow ur kidding me born gain demeter cast won? heart attack and die of that surprise

[plain fossil]

I only enjoy sauce when its actually better than the obvious solution

Or has potential to be better

[bleak night]

It's much more consistent, yeah?

[plain fossil]

I tried aph cast that seemed okay too i might mess with it more

[plain fossil]

Yea u get fked less by delays in ur cast

[bleak night]

casts are good on it, pretty much

You just want origination, but Dem def better since native Cyclone boon

[civic ocean]

Boooo white bread build

[magic moss]

what do you take for 2nd debuff for origination on charon cuz i have hera atk but need solar ring so dont know what 2nd debuff is

[bleak night]

Wasn't it Solar Ring before?

[civic ocean]

Still is

[plain fossil]

I didnt try hestia at all i didnt mind aph but aph support boons kinda suck for charon, the infusion is good but everything else is STAND CLOSE and HEALING and im like wtf do i do with these

[zealous vault]

what is gaia's gift?

[civic ocean]

flashy, cool, two duo boons

[magic moss]

get 2 seeds from well of xharon

[bleak night]

Put Hera on Special and get Cyclone for Cast. I barely attack on Charon

[zealous vault]

boooo

[magic moss]

ok i didnt want to use a reroll on hera so grabbed atk but good to know for future reference

[bleak night]

I mean the others are kinda bad options unless you get Vent on the Heph cast that cuts your Cast radius by 40% lol

We all know Local Climate Storm Ring already works as well, so that's 5 of the 8 casts already

[plain fossil]

Geyser ring in the corner like I StiLl ExiSt

[bleak night]

Geyser Ring guts your base damage sadly

[civic ocean]

It's gotta be Solar Ring for me, big explosions, risk/reward, get nasty with positioning the dunks, making chronos turn back into them, etc

[bleak night]

It's a net negative, I prefer Hera's to that one

[plain fossil]

It gets worse every time i look at it

I wanna try hera cast on charon it might be ok

[bleak night]

I ran it on 45F and I wanted to quit at every moment until I somehow clutched that run

[plain fossil]

Like u dont have the horrible repositioning problem

And in some cases if ur not running blue shields it's hard for charon to clear lots of small enemies quickly

[bleak night]

Charon has 5 viable casts, so it's already good build variety

[plain fossil]

Like in a big room where theres enemies spawning in many places

[bleak night]

Hera and Dem are just S tier on it, as usual

[plain fossil]

So i can maybe see it

[plain fossil]

Yea i mean if it works click it

[bleak night]

Barely does damage down the line is all

[plain fossil]

Hey man demeter does no damage either

[bleak night]

I cab link my run if you wanna see the most scuffed gameplay you will ever see in your life

[plain fossil]

Ha sure why not

[bleak night]

Local Climate boosts Cast damage, even when uncharged. The Cast itself is mostly for origination since your base damage is already high enough to enjoy it

So tbh you run casts for Origination, for Solar damage, or for Bis' meme build

[plain fossil]

Oh sure u get a bit of damage from local climate

But u get that regardless cos ur not gonna skip demeter lul

[bleak night]

That's +20% on common, that's not too bad tbh

[civic ocean]

not this again

[bleak night]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EflxtgQ3haw

[bleak night]

Huh? What's happening?

[civic ocean]

we've been over the local climate demeter cast dmg thing before

[bleak night]

What about it ?

It increases the damage of the detonation of the cast, no ?

[plain fossil]

I didnt think it worked i asked for test, someone tested, it works, all good

[bleak night]

I can test myself later

Don't cringe when watching that video btw, I was tilted from the previous Chronos loss lmao

[civic ocean]

how often do u win at 45

[past salmon]

depends on weapon

[bleak night]

I barely spam it, but Mel and Than took me first attempt to get a recording, Charon took me 6 or 7

[steel sequoia]

aw man i wish i have gotten the pos legendary https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1249908307594838057/20240610230717_1.jpg?ex=66690352&is=6667b1d2&hm=95401069e8c66166870128d320324cec620bbf904f4eae7ac9b02eba99939cc5& but was fun anyways

[tawny stag]

Hi what do the little arrows next to the boon or reward mean when you’re choosing the next encounter

[bleak night]

Which arrows ?

[tawny stag]

There are small green arrows pointing up

[civic ocean]

higher rare/epic chance

usually miniboss doors ya?

[bleak night]

Huh? I've never recalled seeing this one

[tawny stag]

yeah

[bleak night]

Am I just blind or something? Or I don't notice

[spare kite]

I assumed it was minibosses too but never seen them either lmao

[plain fossil]

Ok thats pretty scuffed

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1249909000405778453/image.png?ex=666903f7&is=6667b277&hm=929b467031fed99e105f1068a8cc90669f93f3faccb6c12a387b9df0dff919cb&

[bleak night]

I start decently playing well after Scylla dw

[bleak night]

I've never seen this one before, huh?

[hollow stag]

Charon/Thanos Axe would be top tier if Chaos Channel Speed Boons and Arachne’s Silk armor actually worked speeding up Omega Special.

Fortunately the 25% faster channel speed Hammer works.

[civic ocean]

its on every miniboss door

[plain fossil]

That root stalker was like my root stalkers lmao

[bleak night]

I should look at it once more later

[civic ocean]

do they not? anecdotally I feel like they do?

[bleak night]

Barely does

The hammer makes it faster but other things don't for some reason

[civic ocean]

The problem with the dunk isn't the charge-up speed it's the ending lag for me

[bleak night]

I think you can just cancel the endlag by tapping special again

[hollow stag]

I tried it with 4 epic chaos boons. 4 30% shows no difference

[jovial cove]

do people use the dunk

I haven't played much skull since the patch I assume Mel is still better

[hollow stag]

I also tried fiddling with in game files and tweaking the Sudden Cleaver hammer to 75% faster and 10x slower. Those show major differences.

[civic ocean]

sounds like an F10 then yeah

[past salmon]

the dunk?

[civic ocean]

must be a placebo for me

[jovial cove]

sorry I mean the omega special I call it the chaos dunk

[civic ocean]

Omega special on axe or skull

[jovial cove]

skull

[opaque cypress]

Any recommendations on how daybreaker works with the aspect of Eos? It says it’s affected by the special but I’m not seeing how that works.

[civic ocean]

Whenever you use a special or special so does Daybreaker

[jovial cove]

actually I mean the skull omega attack. I'm getting all my words mixed up today

[civic ocean]

I have never intentionally click omega attack on the skull

[bleak night]

I only Omega Attack on Skull when I get the Rocket hammer

[past salmon]

the only time skull omega attack is used is when possessed array does it for you 😭

[opaque cypress]

Ohh I see, that makes sense.

[jovial cove]

tru, but then it's 🔥

[bleak night]

https://hades2-fear-run.vercel.app/BuildBuild new tool to share builds with

[timber pawn]

It's a shame persephone is cast only

Omega attack would work better I think

[past salmon]

maybe yeh

[bleak night]

I'd definitely have preferred more options

[past salmon]

Idk I kinda like current persephone
although actually I would like to try it with omega attack being the glory builder that could be rlly cool actually

[spare kite]

East brainwashed a sgg team member for the change clearly

[civic ocean]

I don't have that much clout yet

[bleak night]

[civic ocean]

yet

[spare kite]

It was so perfect seeing the change lmao
Everyone expecting glory charge rate up and then they hit us with the cast only

[jovial cove]

oh the fear leaderboard is back up. why are the fear amounts out of order though?

[past salmon]

it initially sorts from date added just click unseeded or smth

[jovial cove]

ah ty

[civic ocean]

#self-promotion message @bleak night speed cook is up on YT

[bleak night]

I'l give it a watch

Wtf is that thumbnail

[plain fossil]

I havent tried ghetto clockets in h2 i assume its bad?

[spare kite]

Lmfao that's a thumbnail

[civic ocean]

I learned how to make thumbnails 2 weeks ago and I honestly love it they're so funny

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1245053235916705802/Shotgun_meme_run.mp4?ex=66687d2f&is=66672baf&hm=f192c99063b5048ef30abae873f62e487fc75328468d32eb3d91a70ac1aada6c&

[spare kite]

Another hades creator with peak thumbnails, you love to see it

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1249913845263110214/SICKO_MODE_HP.jpg?ex=6669087a&is=6667b6fa&hm=d5da4dfbad396fde9fd2355911363b22c0d7555d9723090206d258b7959fbcfb& cinema

[spare kite]

https://youtu.be/XPH98YZTR7s

[hollow stag]

How will White Antlers be nerfed?

Will it have more conditions, such as no armors, shield, death defiance, and any sort of protections too?

[spare kite]

Peak from cgull as always

[plain fossil]

This is last patch right

[civic ocean]

this is so funny with air fryer because I have to keep re-stacking the scorch every time he teleports

[bleak night]

Yeah, but skull hammers got buffed rather than nerfed, so this would be way better rn too lol

[quartz plaza]

sweet, used this massively overthinking build as a map and well:

still never saw coarse grit lol. i am sold on flutter strike though
https://i.imgur.com/Qx362du.png

[spare kite]

Big chop

[quartz plaza]

the biggest

hitting for 1200-1700 by the end :D

rare crop is low key very good

[bleak night]

Coarse Grit is hard to get with Dem/Heph and two non-Earth gods

[quartz plaza]

i had the earth for it, just never saw enough dems

probably should have rerolled more aggressively

still, my first 20F i'll take it

[bleak night]

Yep, I also tend to reroll locations

[spare kite]

Door rerolls not having to compete with boons is so fun

I only used them to meme in H1

[dusty sapphire]

The fact that major/minor rewards don't reroll into each other and that boons tend to reroll into boons from a god in your pool make location rerolling MUCH more viable than in Hades 1, and I really like that.

[spare kite]

major and minors never mixed up tho?

[dusty sapphire]

oh they didn't

lmao ig I never knew because I never used fated authority

[spare kite]

I think it still has the same bag system from H1 anyways (purely on experience so maybe they did make the boons part a lil better)

But yeah door rerolls weren't bad
But when your competition is boon rerolls

[quartz plaza]

don't they use the same reroll token?

[spare kite]

Yes but you can take both skills I mean

[quartz plaza]

ah

[spare kite]

H1 you had to alternate, and boon rerolls were just better

[quartz plaza]

what's a good way to level up keepsakes?

[civic ocean]

underworld runs

[spare kite]

Just stick with them

[quartz plaza]

just spam them at 2F?

holding the keepsake for the entire run

[spare kite]

Not much else you can do

I realky hope is changed ngl

[quartz plaza]

interesting, my testament for teh axe went away after doing 20F -- i guess i have to be night's champion first?

[spare kite]

20 is axe's cap

[quartz plaza]

ah

[spare kite]

Only blades and torches go to 24

[bleak night]

Those two also skip 20, so def for a boss down the line

[quartz plaza]

thanks for pointing out https://hades2-crossroads.vercel.app/pencil-meta -- very useful

[spare kite]

Pencil meta mentioned
What the hell is a memory (sgg pls I'm begging you)

[civic ocean]

pencil meta is also a bit misleading, as it includes boons that u may not qualify for

[quartz plaza]

selene can't reroll into a boon can it? :(

[civic ocean]

sure it can

it's a major find

[quartz plaza]

i guess i got unlucky 2 times :(

[steel sequoia]

normally it does, depends on the room, its not obvious to tell which room you gonna get major finds

[civic ocean]

any room you can get selene from you can get a boon from

[steel sequoia]

yeah sometimes u get pom, heal, gold, out of rolls

in fields is a pain to roll it off i dont do that anymore

[quartz plaza]

what is a major find vs minor?

[dusty sapphire]

basically, minor finds tend to be metaprogression and major finds tend to be in-run progression

Ash, Psyche, and Bones are minor finds

[plain fossil]

well theres a lot of apollo duo/legendary stuff in there right so its a lot harder to hit

[dusty sapphire]

Boons, Hammers, Selene, Soul Tonics, Coins, Poms, are Major Finds

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1249924407514632192/image.png?ex=66691251&is=6667c0d1&hm=807f46d18b90aac1655736877b1dc7f69d0f9270b627161d4394f39d32cd4bf6& green thingers = minor find

[dusty sapphire]

no shot white antler gets nerfed

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1249924744548061294/image.png?ex=666912a1&is=6667c121&hm=6e2c10dcea4b67a36df118c0560c2805d2c2754faa84db41450900e9453bd4a9& moon thingers = major find

[zenith bolt]

meta-progression = minor find
everything else, pretty much = major find

[zenith bolt]

(and nectar)

[civic ocean]

charon, events can also be classified as minor finds

they can be offered in the same pool

[zenith bolt]

true

[quartz plaza]

ty

[jovial cove]

that 50 fear circe staff run is really funny lol

It could've been any staff

[past salmon]

yep lol

atm all staff aspects focus on omegas which just isnt rlly viable at 50F

[jovial cove]

what double attack hammers do to a monster fighter

If I could attack twice in a row things would be pretty different in my life

[quartz plaza]

finally found toula -- how do i give her treats to level her up? she's non-interactable in town

[dusty sapphire]

In town? Where do you mean by town?

[quartz plaza]

crossroads, training grounds

[past salmon]

you can only treat her once everytime you win/die, maybe the first time you get her you cant treat her either?

[dusty sapphire]

If you can't give her gifts in the training grounds then that usually means you've already done so this time around, you need to do another run

[quartz plaza]

ah i just recruited her

[plain fossil]

Somewhere twoeleven is crying

[past salmon]

Twoeleven is just proving my point with their suffering 😭

I mean tbf they will probably get it but god I could never try Pan 50F lmao

[plain fossil]

It sounds vomit but hey skull 50f also sounded vomit

[past salmon]

Atleast skull doesnt need 19 things in erebus to even get through oceanus

[jovial cove]

it's wild that medea wound up being the one to do it

wouldn't have thunk

[past salmon]

I tried Mel skulls for a bit and got to Fields

I think Mel skulls is probs easier on the same RNG I got the Medea 50 with

its just Mel skulls has a harder time getting out of erebus

[jovial cove]

I feel like Mel skulls are best when you're using the omega special with invincibility + slowdown. it makes sense that it wouldn't do so hot at 50

[past salmon]

I have a Mels 48 which is basically 50 if you just assume you get static shock like room 2 lmao

[jovial cove]

neat

just gotta hope they don't nerf mint condition

[quartz plaza]

oh sweet toula auto-fishes for me

[past salmon]

hmm I doubt they will
I see armour getting a nerf tbh

But like SGG doesnt rlly balance around top heat/fear im pretty sure so there is a lot of insane stuff that might just not get touched

[dusty sapphire]

that initial +60% on attack is nuts

and attacks are just generally faster than other skull aspects once you get it down

[jovial cove]

I wonder if there's a safe way to use medea

I can't do that speedrunning gig

that's a young man's game and I'm neither of those things anymore

[timber pawn]

freeze cast and freeze attack help a lot

[zenith bolt]

woo did moros 32 first try

[timber pawn]

trusty shield and mint condition from heph help too

[timber pawn]

Nice!

[jovial cove]

I do like my granny freeze

[hollow stag]

What boons helped a lot?

[past salmon]

Prayge for Heph and Demeter

[timber pawn]

Im with you but idk how armor gets nerfed in a way that keeps its identity as different-than-more-health

[past salmon]

I think the easiest thing to do is just make it so overflow damage is reduced but not deleted

[gritty lily]

I just did Chronos hitless! What a rush!!

[past salmon]

nice!

[zenith bolt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1249935668105445427/2024-06-10_22-53-09.mp4?ex=66691ccd&is=6667cb4d&hm=7b37b7c208facd33e1e6a5eb5f0ed329ffb9f844e7f349d46bfa943a7e4e6a97&

i did not honestly have too much boon-wise tbh LOL

https://i.imgur.com/mosSW8o.png chaos boons are -cost (only affected omega special) and +hp

water fitness never activated, slow cooker with 2 fire

[gritty lily]

Aspect of persephone + Lightning Lance + Storm Ring + Rejected Talent = Chronos hitless

[zenith bolt]

i didnt cast so those boons were not helpful

burnt offering was big this run though, so that was cool

[past salmon]

which one is rejected talent

is this a chaos boon wait

[zenith bolt]

rejected talent is "The next x Boons you acquire have 1 less option to choose from. Afterward, you use -x% Magick." i think?

[quartz plaza]

man i love mel's personality

[past salmon]

But yeah Persephone is pretty easy
My 45F had a hitless damageless Chronos