h2-builds-and-combat

[rough fjord]

is Than aspect only supposed to increase crit% once per omega attack?

[wise nest]

Nope, you can hit same target multiple times

[weary dune]

Seems like psychic hammer borks that

[wise nest]

I think there might be an internal cooldown on it

[rough fjord]

weird, I'm only getting 1% per entire omega attack with the advancing spin hammer

[wise nest]

It could be that hammers mess it up, you could try testing it

[wild pine]

I don't understand the aphro love for mixed attack/special builds. The different between an aphro boon and apollo/hera/demeter is usually going to be only like 50 to 70% weapon damage. That seems big, but it's on only one of your two moves, and you already have additive bonuses from arcana and weapon aspect if not chaos. And then Aphro has almost nothing else that helps your damage. She doesn't apply a curse without you taking the gain or cast to get it, neither of which has any built-in damage, and then taking the damage-amp-versus-weakened means you're at least 3 boons deep.

Demeter or Hera give you a curse, and having origination on will generally more or less close the value gap between them and aphro on the that move while also improving your other move at the same time. Demeter also has the cast modifiers, hera has the gain, and apollo has the lego.

[timber pawn]

Known glitch with psychic and advancing whirlwind afaik

[civic ocean]

A rare boon with one pom on demeter torch special is like 60% and in Aphrodite it is 200%

[sour cape]

There is passion dash for weak

[wise nest]

As far as damage aph is still the highest by a good margin, comparing heroics she's super far ahead and gets further with poms

The whole curse thing is true though, because depending on the weapon hera's hitch is just way better at high heat

[civic ocean]

Correction it is 80% Demeter 200% aphrodite

[sour cape]

Why not Poseidon 🤔

[wise nest]

Poseidon isn't percent based huh

[sour cape]

Hes not but the specials dont do very high base

Seems to work alrite when im trying it

[civic ocean]

Poseidon is also fine but it has an ICD IIRC

[wise nest]

Wait is this for torch or axe

[sour cape]

Oh

[civic ocean]

Just for anything in general

[sour cape]

Torch yea

[wise nest]

Torches do enough damage that aph actually will be better I'm pretty sure

[sour cape]

base dmg of special is like 20?

thats like less than Pan dagger

[timber pawn]

You also don't want to push stuff away on torches, from a mechanical perspective

[civic ocean]

Poseidon is obviously super strong but Orion wondered aloud why Aphrodite was preferred to Demeter because it was only a 50-60% gap

When the reality is it's a 100-120% gap

[wise nest]

Idk there's some reason that people do pink aura go brr

[sour cape]

Yea Aphro on special is pretty significant

[wise nest]

Funnily enough momus damage so op that at high heat I've seen aphro special preferred over poseidon

[sour cape]

Yea it can be higher than Poseidon but you need to be close

and you lose out on double hit/curse

But Poseidon gets a lot back from Legendary too

[civic ocean]

Poseidon also does completely stupid aoe damage

[sour cape]

The main thing I dont get is why Scorch deals less dmg than Poseidon

[wise nest]

Idk watch the 50 heat clear in boasting

[civic ocean]

Like if you are momusing a pack of 5 enemies poseidon just added like flat 30 damage per enemy or like 120 damage which is like 300% weapon damage

[wise nest]

Yeah this is the real problem, poseidon is crazy good but we don't exactly have a strong alternative

As far as many small hits

[sour cape]

Yea Hestia special should be 25 scorch

[civic ocean]

Scorch is fine for that if you build into it, it's also really nice in erebus

Smolder ring is ohkoing most small mobs in erebus for instance

[wise nest]

Smolder ring what's that I only know glowing coals

[sour cape]

Yea dionysus and Zeus were good alternatives in H1

[civic ocean]

I mean I do think there's a pretty strong correlation between people who dump on scorch and people who don't try to make it work

[sour cape]

ive only gotten scorch to work with AQ

[civic ocean]

It is like suuuuper safe

[sour cape]

but its just really not a good alternative to Poseidon

For weapons that would take Poseidon

[civic ocean]

Why does everything have to compete with Poseidon

[sour cape]

Well Zeus and Dionysus did in H1

for flat dmg weapons

[civic ocean]

Poseidon fundamentally didn't work the same way in H1

[sour cape]

Well ofc, but as Hestia and Poseidon are flat dmg gods of H2, naturally will be compared

[civic ocean]

Why, they do like very different things

Poseidon cannot damage enemies while you dodge

[sour cape]

Comparing their attack boons

[civic ocean]

Why would you compare them though that sounds silly

[sour cape]

Dionysus and Zeus also had different supports in H1 too

[wise nest]

dionysus was still inferior to zeus in the first game tbf but at high heat it did have one thing going for it

[sour cape]

I mean why wouldnt you compare boons that are meant for fast attacking weaoons to each other?

[wise nest]

it was more reliable beneath ap2/uc because you didn't have to scale to jolted or worry about it being taken away, you just pom tf out of one thing

[civic ocean]

Because they accomplish different things, it's like comparing Demeter and Hera because they're both % based

[sour cape]

Sure you could compare Demeter and Hera reasonably well?

[civic ocean]

What the

[wise nest]

Right now poseidon has the better solo scaling AND better full scaling

[civic ocean]

Demeter freezes enemies for 2-5 seconds they do very different things

[sour cape]

I mean you'd conclude that hey Hera's got a higher dmg output but Demeter has better cc

With Poseidon vs Hestia... well Poseidon got higher dmg, upfront dmg and more aoe and Hestia has ???

[civic ocean]

Just like you'd conclude that Poseidon is better at dealing damage when you can keep attacking and Hestia is better when you have limited attack windows

And poseidon has no defensive options and hestia promotes defensive play

[sour cape]

But Hestia doesnt even have better dmg when you have limited attack windows

since each special deals less dmg than Poseidons splash

[civic ocean]

Sure she does, if you build into her

[sour cape]

15 scorch vs 20 splash

[wise nest]

aoe damage is itself defensive because you can lock down a room by sitting in a corner and hitstunning everything that approaches with the splash + special hit

[sour cape]

But thats drawing more boons into it, Im not here arguing that Poseidons way better once you get his legendary, just one boon to one

[civic ocean]

This just isn't true - poseidon waves don't hitstun

[wise nest]

They push them back

[civic ocean]

Try that in a room full of hippos/caskets

[wise nest]

Which is functionally good enough even with fo2

[sour cape]

And Poseidon knockback does add more dmg for knocking into walls

with that boon but really id just look at the special vs special

[civic ocean]

Yeah Poseidon is obviously very good, it's just that directly comparing what he does to what hestia does is setting you up to crutch on bad habits that will leave you wanting if Poseidon is nerfed

Understanding what makes scorch appreciably better in different circumstances and how to build into it to do so is just like really good fundamental play

[sour cape]

Id rather scorch be buffed it shouldnt be good only with Zeus.

[civic ocean]

Lmao

[wise nest]

I didn't see

[civic ocean]

Me neither

[plain fossil]

I mean we can do all the math and understand all that right now and still never click scorch right now because it is asscrack

[wise nest]

Also what's the file pathing for saves bc I want to keep my funny axe god run for whenever I hate axe

[plain fossil]

Like both things can be true at once

[civic ocean]

I mean maybe? Idk, you can look at it mathematically and never click it because it's asscrack or you can figure out how to make it work for you and winstreak at 32 with Persephone with it

[plain fossil]

Like its not as though pointing out that mathematically hestia special is basically unclickable stops u from understanding how air quality works

[civic ocean]

I think this is just engagement ring all over again

Scorch is like quite good at Erebus

[plain fossil]

Engagement ring is still unclickable in the context we were talking about tho

Its just happens to be good in contexts we werent

[sour cape]

Engagement Ring could be reworked, its kind of too one dimensional

[civic ocean]

See?

Instead of reworking engagement ring/scorch to fit your valuation of different dimensions, rework your valuations of different dimensions to fit what engagement ring/scorch are giving you

[plain fossil]

What no lul

U start with the goal ur trying to achieve and fit ur tools to that context

[sour cape]

But scorch is just... not strong rn

[plain fossil]

If ppl wanna use engagement ring to speedrun thats fantastic good on them

But ive got no interest in that its the same level of interest as the ppl talking about i dunno the story or something to me

[civic ocean]

Okay is winning at 32 heat consistently of interest to you

[plain fossil]

Yes

[forest oxide]

Hey, just wondering - Is it intentional that those hold to launch casts don't get triggered by the charon axe omega special or is it something that's gonna get fixed

[sour cape]

Ok but AQ wouldnt care if Scorch dealt 0 dmg per tick, its not a good argument that Scorch is ok rn

[civic ocean]

Why not, that's silly, just use the tools available to you in the game

[timber pawn]

This is news to me do you happen to have a clip?

[plain fossil]

I dont see a use for engagement ring in that scenario, unless an aspect exists that a) doesnt want to click timer b) doesnt want to click blue shields c) wants a very long cast and d) can use the damage

As far as im aware that build does not exist

[sour cape]

It makes Scorch too pidgeonholed into one thing

And thats not very interesting imo

[civic ocean]

You can run engagement ring to get 3 fear by running 5 minute timer since it wins erebus

[forest oxide]

No, I play on Steam Deck sadly but the cast gets triggered when you just drop it, but if you hold then launch it like some boons allow, it doesn't

[sour cape]

Not if you take blue shields

[plain fossil]

Obviously im not a total idiot im able to identify the scenarios in which its useful i just understand that its faster to assume that everyone in the room is on the same page and move on

[civic ocean]

But I'm not on the same page as you, and I've won 8 of my last 11 32 fear runs, 3 of which involved taking Scorch, more than any other god based boon in the game.

[plain fossil]

Otherwise we end up in these insane discussions where one person is defending moros or whatever

[sour cape]

Like what if AQ gets nerfed?

[plain fossil]

Thats because ur mechanically better than me

[wise nest]

surely not

[civic ocean]

Maybe part of the reason I'm mechanically better than you is I'm not crutching poseidon

[sour cape]

[wise nest]

Also poseidon is only truly insane on momus/pan and that's more those weapons just being turbo good than poseidon

[plain fossil]

Wat no

[wise nest]

I really don't think poseidon needs a nerf, it's momus specifically lmao

[wild pine]

Does charon normally trigger omega casts?

[plain fossil]

Im not crutching poseidon im crutching double earth

Amd aq scorch blocks that setup

Like i appreciate everything ur saying about aq scorch and i still do not like the setup

[civic ocean]

What if Poseidon gets nerfed? Surely the person who's playing everything and finding ways to win with it is more able to adapt to buffs and nerfs

[plain fossil]

U are straight up squashier than any setup that can click demeter + other earth

And i dont think its possible to disagree with that statement

[sour cape]

Yea but where would that leave Scorch 💀

[forest oxide]

Oh shoot, that might be the problem - didn't know long-distance positioning casts immediately count as omega. That sucks 😔 Thanks!

[wise nest]

Wait are you talking about the ones where you can projectile fire them

[sour cape]

Like I feel like gods should be able to stand on their own and not just like one tricking with a combo

[wise nest]

Those do trigger with charon, in fact you specifically want them for charon

[forest oxide]

Yeahhh, like the Zeus and Hestia ones

[wild pine]

Well, if you just tap to shoot glowing coal or lightning lance, it's a normal cast. But while you hold the button to aim you are also automatically channeling the omega version.

[civic ocean]

Really good early game boons while still being Origination provider if you can stack it up, with potential crowd control with other boons and part of Hestia's kit which has ranged casts, amazing gain, really good sprint, etc

[wise nest]

Yeah, charon works on those

[forest oxide]

I don't let it eat up the mana though

[civic ocean]

Why would you assume that they would just nerf AQ and not buff scorch

[wild pine]

Then I'm not sure what's going on -- I trigger those ranged casts with Charon all the time

[wise nest]

Again, poseidon isn't even op, it's just the best option for already stupid strong weapons

[forest oxide]

Really? Mine never does - it works when you just press and drop, but when you hurl them, that's when it doesn't

[sour cape]

Well I dont wanna focus on the rest of Hestias kit since that doesnt really have anything to do with Scorch itself.

[civic ocean]

Well that's super wrong

[wise nest]

Oh yeah, if you're holding then you've channeled it to be an omega

[forest oxide]

Do you get to trigger them after hurling the cast?

[sour cape]

Its like Zeus is perfectly strong despite Ionic Gain being terrible, does that mean Ionic Gain shouldn't be buffed?

[civic ocean]

Yes potentially

[forest oxide]

Ahh, even if I don't let it consume mana?

[wise nest]

Oh that's weird

[sour cape]

I would disagree, having "bad" boons just means fewer options

[wise nest]

If you can get a video that might help give a better idea of what's going on

[wild pine]

I mean, we do want each god to have some more desirable and less desirable boons

[civic ocean]

are you charging their omega versions when you aim them

[wild pine]

But there's definitely thresholds where things are just too bad or too good and should be rebalanced

[civic ocean]

no weaknesses! only strengths!

[wise nest]

yeah but typically those don't apply to core boons, you want them to be good somewhere

[sour cape]

Yea to some extent there always will be stronger and weaker boons to have differentiation but Ionic Gain is just practically never good

[civic ocean]

Neither is Tranquil Gain, and the more I play the more I'm just down with that

[sour cape]

And Scorch is like good with this particular gimmick

[wise nest]

hot take tranquil gain kinda neat on charon lmao

[civic ocean]

Yeah it's good when you make it work

[wise nest]

You can just run off while cast is destroying things once you're out of magic

[civic ocean]

Just like scorch is 🙂

[sour cape]

So when would a boon reach the threshold of deserving a buff?

[plain fossil]

Its just the least terrible option lul

[civic ocean]

It's a hard question to answer, but I think my approach to all of these things, when something seems weak to me, is to think what am I NOT seeing

[plain fossil]

Ive splashed fourth god for real gain on charon before because demeter gain is so ass and giving up ur a2 keepsake might be better

[civic ocean]

Not "this is weak", I am weak

[wise nest]

where are the save files stored I need to copy a run

[plain fossil]

I mean sometimes this is useful especially if u have infinite time

[wise nest]

Just because it's the most fun I've had with axe

[plain fossil]

And sometimes u end up staring at moros for 4 hours

[civic ocean]

I'm looking forward to cooking with Moros, yeah

I ahven't really touched Moros or Eos yet because Aphro Mel is so fun and strong

[plain fossil]

Fwiw ur basically complaining about ppl tunneling on strong stuff

[civic ocean]

No, my original complaint was that Arya was saying that you should never use scorch because poseidon is better, which is a lot like saying you should never use wrenches because screwdrivers are better

[plain fossil]

And i will say that this place's love for aphro mel is imo ppl tunneling on strong stuff and demeter special is better at 32, thats my hot take

[civic ocean]

Yeah, sure, maybe

[plain fossil]

Yea which is ppl tunneling on poseidon bc its strong

[civic ocean]

I don't have a problem with people tunneling on Poseidon because it's strong, I have a problem with people misidentifying what Scorch does well

[forest oxide]

Naw, I just aim and hurl so really, it doesn't consume any magick at all but I guess the game treats it as an omega

[sour cape]

What does Scorch do well outside of AQ?

[civic ocean]

#h2-builds-and-combat message

[sour cape]

Thats not Scorch, thats Hestia

[civic ocean]

The first half of that is all scorch

[plain fossil]

Scorch is ok early its not as good as poseidon but its not like its blitz or anything

[wise nest]

the fact that momus is chill with blitz is insane

[plain fossil]

I really dont like that its basically strictly worse than poseidon in erebus thats just a bad balance oversight imo

[civic ocean]

Being able to deal damage to one target while you're hitting something across the map is probably the most underrated quality something can have in this game and not understanding it is partly why everyone feels like the game is slower/the timer is too hard

[sour cape]

sure but youd need to consider how much dealing compared to altenratives

[tired fulcrum]

That parts only helpful with aq/cast

[civic ocean]

you're allowed to take the cast right

[sour cape]

if you're dealing 15 dmg extra... its not much of an advantage when other gods are doing more than thar upfront

[tired fulcrum]

I mean what ppl complain about is hestias attack/special

[wise nest]

The thing with this is that you still have to hit those initial hits. Putting 3 specials' worth of scorch onto an enemy and letting it tick down still requires 3 shots where poseidon will deal all of that upfront and possibly have it already dead

[civic ocean]

Yeah the attack and special are the worst part of her kit, like Ionic Gain/Tranquil Gain are the worst part of zeus/demeter's kit, etc

[plain fossil]

More than that upfront 😦 thats the balance problem

[civic ocean]

1 cast

[wise nest]

The whole "it lets you damage things even when you're not hitting them" doesn't make sense because you need to get those hits in to even trigger it in the first place

Yeah scorch cast is fine and especially nice with glowing coals

[sour cape]

Fire Extinguisher is even worse tbh

[civic ocean]

Okay so we understand ways in which scorch can be fine now even without the air quality "gimmick"

[plain fossil]

I dont think anybody ever criticized the cast lmao why are u acting like the room didnt know this

[wise nest]

Yeah it's just the base numbers on attack/special being way too low

[sour cape]

Yep

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1245864721014329375/image.png?ex=665a4d70&is=6658fbf0&hm=703d89beab20defa084d8a58d9122f417f603f9c13fa84f4526d5c68f85aa87b& ???

[plain fossil]

I mean i should say i criticize the cast for not being able to reliably stack origination at common/0

[wise nest]

Not me 😎

[plain fossil]

But other than that

[analog ether]

Is it just me, or are poms really rare?

[sour cape]

The cast has the same issue as Hera's cast but its not as pressing of an issue

[tired fulcrum]

Wdym

[wise nest]

I think the game has fewer of them than before if you're not taking tart triple pom rooms? But that's just a feeling

[civic ocean]

there are more major finds so they're rarer

[sour cape]

Does not scale well

[tired fulcrum]

Also no darkforesight

[wise nest]

Yeah but not everything is for damage, some things are just utility

[analog ether]

I consider myself lucky if I see two in a single run

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1245865129808236615/image.png?ex=665a4dd2&is=6658fc52&hm=60fc4c0c27ce92ba61c0572087e426915efbee81aed5e77ed03068e3d9f729a9&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1245865196849991830/image.png?ex=665a4de1&is=6658fc61&hm=b2fccda837533139be0366d20f23b41711d45e36992e668c2a7dbe312163ddc2&

lol

[sour cape]

But i was meaning the attack/special when criticizing scorch

The cast is arguable 😔

[tired fulcrum]

Hestia/hera/dem casts are useful at low investment compared to like zeus/apollo who you need to build into/bother omegaing

[sour cape]

Dem remains useful just for the cc

[civic ocean]

Yeah and my contention has been that the attack/special scorch boons are like Tranquil Gain where you need to invest the right situations into them for them to be good

[wise nest]

If I had to pick a single cast to use forever it'd be dem because of how obscene the cc is

[civic ocean]

Zeus > everyone probably

[wise nest]

Nah I want me some free origination and massive cc

[civic ocean]

them being dead is the best cc

[sour cape]

Zeus costs mana

[civic ocean]

Yes paying mana to kill enemies is good

[sour cape]

Not if you have no mana

[civic ocean]

True but that's on me isn't it

I control how I spend my mana no?

[sour cape]

Still need to build for it

[plain fossil]

Ye its obvs dem cast as generic single most useful cast

[civic ocean]

what do you need to build for? you take it and it deals like 400 damage

[plain fossil]

Zeus is good at what it does

[sour cape]

Well you can no longer reserve all your mana for example

[plain fossil]

Its just narrower and u often dont need/cant use what it provides

When u want it its great tho i take it early a lot

[civic ocean]

I don't think demeter cast is good at all for clearing fast deadlines or fighting bosses

unless you build for it

[plain fossil]

But if the question is if i could have 1 cast on every build what would it be, the answer is demeter not close

[civic ocean]

Yeah disagree it's zeus for me 100%

[sour cape]

Demeters got my vote for best overall

[plain fossil]

Since u cant even use zeus cast on a bunch of builds

[civic ocean]

Storm Ring might be the best single boon in the game

floor 1 I mean

[wise nest]

I was gonna say lmao

Born gain: 🤨

[civic ocean]

Born Gain is specific, I think you only need need it on blades and torches

[sour cape]

Born Gains great for axe too

[tender anvil]

Axe as well, tbh

[civic ocean]

but its hard to be bad true

I don't love it on axe tbh but that's just me

[tender anvil]

In my experience Charon gets more mileage out of born gain than any other boon. Thanatos is arguable

[plain fossil]

If u made me take a specific boon with just any random build floor 1 room 1 its probably zeus cast

[civic ocean]

I think Bis and I are playing manual omega cast charon which doesn't need born gain as much, though still useful

[plain fossil]

But thats because zeus cast carries weak floor 1 builds harder than anything else if u dont mind being locked into zeus later which most builds dont really want

In terms of usefulness across the game id certainly still rather have demeter i dont particularly think its close either

[tender anvil]

Just got to Tartarus with 3 hammer hyper offense Pan, with 0 defense boons on 45 Fear. Wish me luck!

[civic ocean]

Cut his ass up

[plain fossil]

Dont get hit 4Head

[tender anvil]

Problem is getting to him really

[plain fossil]

Brute first hit for 200 lmao

There should be an aoe vow

Man the game would be so obnoxious with increased mob aoe

[tender anvil]

Literally phased Cerberus at +30% hp with one Omega Special, at least there’s that

[plain fossil]

Like i said yesterday when we were chatting, highroll pan makes for great youtube videos

[civic ocean]

are you hookin

[tender anvil]

No heph though, gonna die to some numbskulls now

[civic ocean]

jsut be sick with it

[plain fossil]

I would think its impossible to do 26000 damage to cerberus in one spray without hook knives

[tender anvil]

Hook+Spiral+Concentrated

[civic ocean]

beauty

[plain fossil]

The single target youtube setup lulw

[forest oxide]

who do you have on there

[plain fossil]

Seeded run or no

[dreamy rivet]

psa: hephaestus boons can crit

[tender anvil]

+4 epic special, chaos boon for +47% special, Keen Intuition for further +30%, and 3 Fire Slow Cooker

[dreamy rivet]

supergiant this game rules

[tender anvil]

Seeded for Hooked start

[civic ocean]

hell yeah brother

They also scale with any global damage% mods so you can quickly throw a cast on something for furies and deal 30% more damage

[dreamy rivet]

im stacking backstab + hephaestus boon + chance to crit and i really hope i crit something for like 4k damage

[civic ocean]

That's the way

numbers go brrrr

[plain fossil]

Cool, gl. 45 is good achievement on pan seeded or no

[summer root]

Skull of Medea with the Colossul Skull hammer feels like a drug.

[plain fossil]

Skull has the best hammers ngl

[summer root]

I love just dashing through a room and everything is instantly dead.

Get aphrodite on the special and Chaos blesses you with a damage boon as well oh BABY

[plain fossil]

Every skull build has multiple hammers it wants p sure

[summer root]

300 per dash 😩

[sour cape]

Skull likes hammers

[plain fossil]

I dont think u can say the same for any other weapon

[sour cape]

How does the launch all skulls hammer work for Mel?

[plain fossil]

In my limited testing, poorly

It might be range dependent not sure

[sour cape]

Oh well

[dreamy rivet]

question, i just got offered hephaestus legendary without any aspects unlocked. im using the 2 daggers, what will it do for me?

[plain fossil]

Increase backstab damage

[sour cape]

How bout the extra skull hammer?

[civic ocean]

press it and find out

[plain fossil]

Ur using mel aspect if u have no aspect right

[sour cape]

Yea

[dreamy rivet]

yeah

[plain fossil]

Very well

[sour cape]

stacks ip further 👀

[dreamy rivet]

i took it and no idea what its doing for me, no description

[plain fossil]

Yea and mel daggers gives more backstab damage

[sour cape]

Mel skull prob wants Demeter?

[plain fossil]

Although if u have no aspect in ur boons at all...

[dreamy rivet]

OH so you're saying i might like 4shot the final boss if i get lucky

[sour cape]

yea r0 Mel just does nothing 🤔

I don think anyways

[plain fossil]

r0 every mel does nothing thats like "the base game"

[plain fossil]

I played some mid fear runs with demeter full array mel its clearly good enough to do well

[sour cape]

Nice nice

[plain fossil]

Im not as clear on what to do when u dont get full array bc i dont play much skulls

[sour cape]

Yea not many skull enjoyers

[forest oxide]

how do you guys make momus busted 😔 slapped poseidon on, got the hammers that adds extra power, pommed the special a bunch and i felt like it wasn't really doing anything nutty or is the whole point just being able to spam special from a distance

[sour cape]

Spam special from distance really

its pretty much the most straightfoward thing.

Momus special deals as much base dmg as the first axe swing

So uhh yea special spam 😂

[tender anvil]

Got to Chronos. 1:30 on the timer, 1 DD left (3 lost in Tart), Antler up

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml#

There's a little more to it, follow the momus guide here

[plain fossil]

Good luck, try not to die to p2 hourglasses

[forest oxide]

ohh okay haha the way it was getting bigged up i expected pan/charon output

[sour cape]

White Antler is a major boost but not really core to Momus

[forest oxide]

oh wow thank you!

[sour cape]

I think the main advantage is more how Momus deals a ton of dmg without caring for a lot of fears and minimal investment

In terms of like huge dps, Pan might be better 🤔

[civic ocean]

Huntress/Strength/Antler all pretty core parts of Momus' dmg output for sure

[sour cape]

Its more that those can be taken with anything

Well not Huntress but

[civic ocean]

I think unless ur aiming for a lot of running and like 30+ minute clears you want strength and antler

[tired fulcrum]

Idk why you need antler to go below 30 min

[sour cape]

I feel like you could get below 30 mins without Antler

[civic ocean]

Why not it's like 1.8x damage on the safest weapon in the game

[sour cape]

I mean its dmg is good enough that you dont need it

if you want another trinket/more hp

[civic ocean]

But they asked specifically why they felt the dmg was low

[tender anvil]

Died to timer in p2( Ah well, here we go again

[civic ocean]

RIP

[tired fulcrum]

Antlerless momus isnt low damage though

[sour cape]

Well thats not because lacking Antler

[plain fossil]

Wow u died to timer with that damage?

[tender anvil]

Tried to play it safe, was a mistake

[plain fossil]

30 minute is obviously an exaggeration the last 32 momus i did was with 7 minute timer, but its also true to say antler is a lot faster

[sour cape]

Antler is a huge dps increase for any build and the trade offs arent that different for Momus than others

[plain fossil]

Uh that was with no antler to be clear

[civic ocean]

I think the victory screenshot was 11 minutes? Would have been like 2nd on SDC had I recorded it

[sour cape]

Strength though is really good at high fears 🙏

[plain fossil]

Well i would argue that antler is probably better when u get to hide in a corner all day, but i suppose on the flip side antler is worse when u already have so much damage that u can click 10 defensive boons on demeter heph

[sour cape]

Yea

[plain fossil]

Conclusion: momus is busted

[ionic moon]

momus needs pretty much no setup to be safe with antler

[sour cape]

But Momus also doesnt need more damage

[civic ocean]

Every build wants 1.8x damage

[sage compass]

How do you guys feel about about judgement arcana? At max-rank it takes 4 about guardians to activate all arcanas (If you start off with the bottom left ones enabled) but my runs feel kinda 5050 without some key starting cards

[mystic bison]

Momus has busted dmg as is

[plain fossil]

Yea ofc its just a question of how much it wants the damage vs how much it wants to not get hit and die

[civic ocean]

Fun build for having a good time with randomness

[tired fulcrum]

Its funny but its also dookie

[zenith bolt]

bad

you're weaker or on par at best until tartarus

[civic ocean]

Also low key kind of a decent way to get good at movement/positioning since you can't rely on a consistent build to protect you

[plain fossil]

I do kinda wonder if seeded judgement is gonna be the 0 fear speedrun meta at some point

[zenith bolt]

could be a decent intermediary if you plan on doing no arcana i guess?

[mystic bison]

Nice bonus if I get it from Circe Keepsake but I never use it otherwise

[sour cape]

Its a playstyle difference, I like to get the minimum dmg to clear content then invest in survivability. Others like to get minimum survivability and focus on dmg.

[civic ocean]

Your damage becomes your survivability

You don't have to worry about avoiding the enemy if they die

[sour cape]

True there is that argument as well

[plain fossil]

Generally i prefer to stack defensive buffs and dangerous fears and play on low/no timer myself

[ionic moon]

death is the best crowd control status

[plain fossil]

I dont rly have any hard evidence that its better tho

[civic ocean]

What if they don't die idk just get nasty with it

[sour cape]

You also beocme better if you actually have to dodge everything and not just burst enemies down 😂

[civic ocean]

Im responding to the person talking about judgement

[plain fossil]

I mean u could also argue that u get better at dodging when u dont have to crutch on freeze and coarse grit lul

[sour cape]

Yea

I dont often get Coarse grit 💀

Since taking all the water buffs in Demeter

[plain fossil]

Like i play similarly to u but i dont know that it makes me better or worse just different

[sour cape]

Yea I dont think its any better or worse just devils advocate

[plain fossil]

Like u look at the stuff i complain about here and other ppl are like ??? Wandering monster on surface thats easy and then those ppl complain about different things and im like ??? Revenants thats easy

And its most likely just due to the setup u need to play fast/slow

[sour cape]

Yea i think its good when theres a lot of disagreement on best setups

[zenith bolt]

isnt the only water stuff from demeter the freeze/cyclone stuff anyway

[sour cape]

means lots of reasonable options, unlike just Momus is op

[zenith bolt]

like most of her support boons are earth afaik

[plain fossil]

And the core boons

[sour cape]

Yea but often taking those and core boons from.her first

[zenith bolt]

4/5 of the core boons are freeze/cyclone, ig tranquil gain is the odd one out

tranquil gain kinda dog anyway i wouldnt take outside of desperation or duos

[sour cape]

Her earth boons are overall less good than her water imo

[plain fossil]

Its the biggest reason to not click core demeter imo, ppl hype up the damage difference too much especially vs things like hera where its very very minor

[civic ocean]

Its v big vs aph

[sour cape]

But Coarse Grit requires a lot of Earth

[plain fossil]

Its not that big on attack its only big on special

[sour cape]

Yea

[mystic bison]

I mean I'd rather have wandering on surface over blood(?), suffering, more enemies or more hp etc still

[sour cape]

Ive not really understood reasoning for why Wandering is worse than other fears

[civic ocean]

Isn't it like over double

Ig it's not so bad if you can quickly get orig but like one rarify and it's like 100 vs 40

[sour cape]

Once you get past the Ephyra, Wandering id just 100% free

[plain fossil]

My current 32 surface setup not counting build specific stuff has health 3 wandering monster 0 that vow can eat my ass

[zenith bolt]

wandering is like free outside of erebus. even on ephyra i dont think it's a big deal

[plain fossil]

45 im pretty sure

[sour cape]

Poms dont scale Aphro attack much either

Plus you got Furies + Origination

[civic ocean]

Idk about wandering surfacef the wandering mons keep you from doing 5 min timer

[plain fossil]

But because its additive its much less relevant on attack

[mystic bison]

Yeah after I did 32 over there I am not doing it again on any other weapon in the forseeable future, surface is cancer on high fear

[plain fossil]

My current 32 surface also has double revenant no timer lul

[civic ocean]

I think Demeter attack is really good on a weapon where its not what ur going for

[mystic bison]

Maybe I'll do 32 fear surface again after 1.0 drops

[sour cape]

I did 32 with extra mobs

[zenith bolt]

demeter attack gets better with weed killer on omega attack weapons (eos notwithstanding)

[mystic bison]

I did 7 min on there I doubt I can make it on 5 min timer

[plain fossil]

I think thats because u click zeus cast a lot so u cant put demeter on cast

[mystic bison]

Ephyra is extremely time intensive even on 7 min

[plain fossil]

Id rather just put demeter on cast and save the clicks

[civic ocean]

Sometimes but I don't think I've done zeus cast dem atk before

[sour cape]

Just do 9 min Ephyra

[zenith bolt]

ephyra seems like artemis/heracles/medea lottery on 5m timer

[civic ocean]

Idk surface

[sour cape]

5m looks pretty impossible ngl

[zenith bolt]

or just clutch up and run white antler idk

[mystic bison]

The surface is just not worth my sanity to go high fear there again

[sour cape]

Hey Circe highrolling feels good

[zenith bolt]

cant wait until they add more to surface and i have to actually get good at eris instead of just eating 250 damage from her every run

[sour cape]

Removed Vow of Fury 😎

[civic ocean]

I remember week 1 or 2 I came here and ppl were like 5 min underworld isn't worth it and you shouldn't ever do it and now if Bis finishes a 32 run in over 20 minutes he thinks its the worst run ever

[zenith bolt]

removed vow of fury would destroy me i think

[civic ocean]

So we'll see about 5 min surface

[plain fossil]

Heracles is horrendous at high fear hey

[zenith bolt]

too used to higher speeds

[mystic bison]

That's my issue too, Poly and Eris are v hard for 1st and 2nd bosses respectively

And by hard I mean - easy to eat a lot of dmg

[sour cape]

It feels a lot easier at low speeds than high

[zenith bolt]

my gripe with eris is she's both extremely punishing and extremely easy to make mistakes on

[plain fossil]

If u click revenants u cant even hide in a corner because heracles cant outdps armoured zombie spawner

[mystic bison]

If surface remains as it is, and they add 2 more biomes on top

It's gonna be hell

[sour cape]

Eris id bet will get nerfed

Once they add more biomes

[zenith bolt]

half of why i think olympus will just be one area and surface will be a 3-area thing is bc eris feels more on par with cerb than scylla

[sour cape]

She's fine as end of run boss but uhh the one shots are too good rn

[plain fossil]

Well eris is currently balanced around basically a full run's worth of boons

[zenith bolt]

mainly bc cerb is an ass and randomly decides to be the worst

sometimes he's free, sometimes he ruins my day

[sour cape]

Cerb on high speed is so much more threatening

With the charge attack going across the arena 💀

[zenith bolt]

slam rush lottery is the best part

[sour cape]

you can barely outsprint it lol

[plain fossil]

Yea he is but for me once i learned to always keep a cast up even if he isnt in it the fight is so much easier

Because if u keep cast up then u always beat slam rush lottery and nothing else can kill u

[sour cape]

Yea stacking cast on him is important

[plain fossil]

No not on him

[mystic bison]

Surface could be a 3 biome area, but idk if we are to assume that we are going up to Olympus proper - then the roadmap (or somewhere else I don't remember) says the next area will be the base of Olympus, not Olympus itself

[plain fossil]

Like if ur away from the fight because ur momus or whatever other ranged build

Cast needs to be up on ur feet

[sour cape]

oh

I guess could do that too

[plain fossil]

If u do that and he charges u then he wont catch u before charge is over

[sour cape]

Well once he starts charging, you can alsp drop a cast

[plain fossil]

And u take 50 less damage even if u dont have sprint boons or other way to get out

[plain fossil]

That has a cast time and gets u hit

[zenith bolt]

simply always take apollo blinding sprint

(best sprint boon anyway

[plain fossil]

Ngl i never click apollo anymore unless im playing charon

[sour cape]

Have Dodge dodge dodge

[mystic bison]

Blinding sprint, Hermes sprint and Hermes keepsake just to be safe

[sour cape]

Been taking triple dodge more

[mystic bison]

Acc love running that on Charon

[heavy palm]

Found a glitch whereby you can activate all Arcana quite easily. It's very fun.

[sour cape]

and it feels very nice

[heavy palm]

I have submitted a bug.

[mystic bison]

Let me guess, by reviving the drummer and the guitarist?

[heavy palm]

Yup, that's the one.

[sour cape]

You think dodge dodge dodge or the hp gain is better? 🤔

[plain fossil]

Yea if its the scylla judgement bug theres active threads on it alrdy

[mystic bison]

Hp gain is useless

[plain fossil]

Dodge dodge dodge not remotely close

[zenith bolt]

the only reason fight fight fight isn't the worst echo reward is because boon boon boon exists

[heavy palm]

Dammit, thought I'd found something new then.

[mystic bison]

You almost completely lose the hp and mana by Kronos

[astral edge]

hp gain is...nice for the extra mana if you're low?
dodge is muuuuch better

[plain fossil]

I dont hate boon boon boon if ur chaining winstreak on the same build

[zenith bolt]

evade evade evade = reward reward reward > survive survive survive > fight fight fight > boon boon boon

[plain fossil]

I would never click fight fight fight

[zenith bolt]

way too rng

[mystic bison]

Unless I'm hunting for more boons, or I am missing DD's - always pick dodge

[sour cape]

What does fight fight fight do?

[zenith bolt]

gain +50% max magick and life but lose 5% of this bonus every encounter iirc

[astral edge]

50% bonus to health and magick but it goes down by 5% every encounter

[sour cape]

Oh yea

[plain fossil]

I mean if im playing the same build as last time, and i assume that i wasnt temporarily having a seizure and hence picked good boons for my build last time, i dont think its a bad click at all

[sour cape]

Isnt the DDs rhe best? 👀

Even 1 DD is like 40% more hp

[astral edge]

if you're missing them, yeah

[plain fossil]

I would probably take evade evade evade over 1 dd but not 2, and both over reward reward reward

[mystic bison]

Yeah it's only useful if you played the same build before, I got King Tide when I needed it like that

[zenith bolt]

i dont usually spend DDs before chronos, and idk i think i'd still take evade evade evade over it

[sour cape]

Yea can you be offered them without missing DD

[zenith bolt]

you can't be offered survive survive survive without missing a DD

same goes for life savings from narcissus

[ionic moon]

yesterday i had a run where nem replaced echo... then she gave me a DD when i was full. expert troll

[zenith bolt]

and kiss of styx from well of charon (as well as the purchaseable DD from charon sometimes in last shop)

[astral edge]

it's not really exploitable since chaos trials aren't repeatable, but it's funny to be able to give yourself boons from a chaos trial you've just done

[plain fossil]

I will sometimes lose a dd in erebus esp ive been trying 40 heat this past couple days

[astral edge]

I wonder whether it works with chaos' unique boons in that first trial, actually

[plain fossil]

When i say trying i mean getting my ass kicked currently

[sour cape]

True Evades a lot better than I thought would be

since if dont get hit willy nilly you can dodge a ton of attacks

[sour cape]

Boon Boon Boon you can really highroll though!

[zenith bolt]

if you love gambling sure

sits at the same level of viability that circe keepsake does bc you could just highroll and get judgment from it

[plain fossil]

Like if evade evade evade lets u dodge 3 things that u might have otherwise been hit by, thats 100+ damage saved easily at high fear which is better than a dd

And it will typically be better than that especially if u alrdy have dodge

[sour cape]

Hmmm ive been doing no dmg inc though

In favor of Suffering 💀

[plain fossil]

Well if u nohit a room due to dodges

Thats 50+ damage saved in tartarus lul

[zenith bolt]

vow of suffering stinky unless you're a hardcore hephaestus fan

[sour cape]

Yea Trusty Shield my beloved

and before trusty shield, just tank a steam hit

[plain fossil]

Ive been clicking suffering on surface with heph keepsake LUL

[sour cape]

Or run into a thorn 😂

In Erebus its truly suffering though

[mystic bison]

In any case you can't lose from evade evade evade, it's useful in some way always

[sour cape]

But I suppose can tank a worm shot for 12

Hecate you can tank a small hit

[zenith bolt]

but what if im just that good at the game and i never get hit

[sour cape]

Then Vow of Suffering is free

[zenith bolt]

so true

[sour cape]

😎

[analog ether]

I just love the fact that the tar traps can be ignited by Hestia attacks.

[mystic bison]

Suffering is the worst on the surface, I have a profound hatred for the birds

[sour cape]

Well if youbgot the good ol trusty shield

[zenith bolt]

surface is just the torture nexus

[mystic bison]

And now we need Poseidon to put the fire off

[plain fossil]

Ye i would never click suffering with timer

[zenith bolt]

water + oil fire = a lot of fire

[plain fossil]

Because the only way u can click suffering is if ur able to hide behind cast

[sour cape]

How is start Hephaestus and plan to go for Hera duo strat?

[plain fossil]

At least on surface

[sour cape]

get good dmg and tankiness?

[mystic bison]

Heph start is nice and all but you get a big dmg opportunity cost

[plain fossil]

Maybe ok for surface as u can rush it easier

[mystic bison]

But at least you can reroll the city rooms by giving up

[analog ether]

Because denying myself over half of the map was exactly what I wanted to have happen.

[karmic gust]

i am trying a heph cast run, anything other than dem cyclone and expanding apollo cast you think would be good?

[mystic bison]

For whatever it's worth, it's easy to zone yourself out even without Hestia

[karmic gust]

not sure what weapon would work the best with it, def not charon because it doesnt extend the number of hits, just lowers the dps (wtf is that interaction btw)

[analog ether]

Plus, I'm not even sure if the fire can be used to damage enemies. If it does, it's such an inconsequential amount that it feels more a punishment for the player doing what they are supposed to do, rather than a strategic terrain feature.

[plain fossil]

Huh thats hilarious. Than axe probably then

[analog ether]

And gods help you if a revenant ghost just happens to be thrown into it.

[plain fossil]

U would also need some form of ranged cast

[mystic bison]

Unless I'm going for a duo or whatever, I wouldn't pick Heph cast on any weapon

[plain fossil]

He's trying to build around it

[zenith bolt]

fire does harm enemies it's just not that much

[plain fossil]

It does ok damage so i can kind of see it

[mystic bison]

Ye ik I'm speaking for myself here

[mystic bison]

It's kinda bs that it doesn't damage Eris, she can literally camp in the flames for a lot of the fight and you won't be able to come close on a melee build

[zenith bolt]

to be fair, she's literally flying

i.e. not being touched by the fire

[plain fossil]

Eris shouldnt be able to stand in the fire and shouldnt be able to stand with her back to walls

[mystic bison]

And the cast should root her!

[plain fossil]

Both of those things makes the fight really melee unfriendly

[plain fossil]

Well if they do that they dont need the other things

[mystic bison]

The cast foes nothing to her, good luck beating her with a cast build

[zenith bolt]

just pray the adhd boss sits still

or pray for geyser ring to actually be functional, i guess. that would work too

[analog ether]

Granted, quite a bit of the game in general right now is melee unfriendly.

[mystic bison]

The cast should at least significantly shorten her dash move, like it does with Kronos

I typed that in the feedback channel a while back

[plain fossil]

I think a lot of it is pretty ok for melee, even eris, in the sense that melee range is by far the safest place to be on these bosses

Like both chronos and eris u want to stand up their ass

[low bear]

Is this a known bag where I can use my omega special on Axe despite having no mana? I have Apollo legendary and demeter's omega attack buff

[plain fossil]

Its just eris doesnt let u do that because she charges across the map and sits where u cant hit her if ur melee

[tired fulcrum]

Do you have born gain

[plain fossil]

I got no problem with her running around and making u reposition so i dont want cast to root

But i do have a problem with having to waste [some unknown amount of time] because i cant hit the boss with my weapon

[mystic bison]

The cast should be consistent though, it disables mobility in some way for bosses and it should affect her as well

[low bear]

Yep but i have less than the required

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah the bug happens with apollo legendary and born gain

[plain fossil]

I dont mind it when bosses break the rules

Theyre bosses they should be able to do things like that

[tired fulcrum]

As long as your max magick is above the base cost of the omega but below the increased cost then you just get to use it for free

[plain fossil]

They just shouldnt do so in a way that makes me think gee clicking artemis daggers for surface was dumb why did i ever do that

[low bear]

Ah I see that makes sense

[mystic bison]

I'd rather have a game where a boss is beatable with any variety of playstyles, I don't want to be locked into a specific playstyle just to beat a boss

And with how crucial the cast in this game is it's weird it does nothing on her

[ionic lily]

Had a pretty fun run where I had poseidon cast, and the invulnerable hex with path of stars that made casts into omega casts during the hex

[plain fossil]

I mean she stays still long enough that if ur playing an actual cast build u will still do damage to her

I would much rather play a cast build on eris than actual melee lul

[mystic bison]

Eh I don't know about that it's pretty random

[plain fossil]

And like i said i believe the issues with eris on melee arent really casts fault even if they wouldnt exist if cast rooted

[plain fossil]

Shrug ive done it on 24 fear i assume its doable on 32

[low bear]

I might just be able to win my run then I was forcing thanatos axe spin2win with apollo but realize I screwed up priming too much MP

[mystic bison]

The last time I tried it (cast build) it was like 16 fear, 40 speed and I was playing Persephone with Glorious Disaster

She kept zipping around, ate 3 of my dd's and I died just before I could kill her

[plain fossil]

I did it with the charon setup on than axe

So even longer wait

I will allow that its annoying but it does so much damage that it didnt really matter

Well actually thats the same as urs right since glorious disaster only works with the charon setup

[mystic bison]

Charon might be easier since you block while channeling, so technically you can do it while she is shooting at you

[plain fossil]

Yes the weapon itself does help but i think eating a lot of damage from eris is experience based a bit

I take like 10% of the damage on eris as i did on the first couple attempts

[mystic bison]

Maybe I'm just bad at the fight, esp on 40 speed, who knows

I've beaten her quite a few times, but I don't run surface regularly or even often, it's just not rewarding for me at this point to do runs there

[shy summit]

wow it is incredibly easy to mod this game
if you think of a balance change you can literally just change the game files and try it yourself

I think I will have some fun with this

[plain fossil]

Yea fair enough i think ive run more surface (and less underground) than most ppl

Its probably gonna get changed and all my practice gonna be useless

But for right now id much rather play glorious disaster vs eris than melee fwiw

[mystic bison]

I really hope things get changed around a bit cause the way things are, with 1 or even 2 more biomes it's gonna be hell mode

Poly and Eris are harder than Cerberus but they are 1st and 2nd boss

[plain fossil]

Agree

[tired fulcrum]

cerb is also just really easy

[plain fossil]

I think polyphemus is the hardest boss at high fear in terms of the resources it chews up

[low bear]

Yeah cerbs massive hitbox makes him so meltable

I sometimes have a harder time with Hecate or Scylla than Cerbs

[mystic bison]

Hecate, Scylla and Cerb are all pretty easy, that's why there is a spike w Poly and Eris

[low bear]

I find Eris harder than Chronos though I've fought Chronos many more times

[neon olive]

Becoming an increasingly huge fan of the "Zagreus Run" (use no magic) on high fear 7-5 min time clock:

• torches for massive AOE special damage and quick kills
• take vow of panic so huntress effect (+50% damage) is always active
• vow of arrogance is just 4 free fear because you're not using magic anyway
• all you need is a good special - hera's with hitch is bananas here but so are demeter, Apollo, and hestia
• pair with a 0 magic cast like demeter or hestia & get furies and origination arcana damage too
• can take all the priming boons like chain lighting, winter coat, trusty shield with no issues
• if you get icarus prime for +20 special damage in thessaly eris simply melts
• never boring because pretty much any build is viable except for aphrodite boons

[shy summit]

the surface is meant to be beaten after the underworld so I think it's fine that things are harder

[karmic haven]

I find Eris quite easy because you can cheese her by just hiding behind the pillars in her arena and then dodge any sniper shots that would otherwise destroy the pillars, and even if you don’t rely on the pillars for cheesing her attacks are more telegraphed than other bosses I feel

[mystic bison]

The way things seem to me is that in 1.0 you are supposed to be doing the surface and the underworld interchangeably, especially if Entropy drops from the final surface boss

[plain fossil]

Zero mana torches my man

I have also been doing this thing, imo zeus special is the best setup as demeter is a bit zdps and hera has no other boons u want

[mystic bison]

Eris is kinda small though and especially with effects (like, say Apollo cast, steam etc) that cause a lot of visual clutter it can be hard to discern her moves

[plain fossil]

And it lets u aim for early chainlightning prime which is very strong

[mystic bison]

Why Zeus?

[plain fossil]

It does more damage than poseidon in this setup, demeter is a bit zdps, u dont want other hera or apollo boons, scorch and heph special are memes

[shy summit]

fun fact: the double moonshot hammer is listed as StaffTripleShotTrait internally

[neon olive]

I like hera/demeter if you get both in early on in erebus because you can almost guarantee you can have coarse grit active for chronos if you took vow of forsaking which is so clutch but otherwise yeah I agree Zeus is better

[plain fossil]

And ur spending too much time at range for aph

[shy summit]

it used to be even more broken 👀

[plain fossil]

I have been clicking zeus demeter heph

Which also activates coarse grit and u get to use heph supports which are good over hera supports which are not good

[karmic haven]

I do primarily use the twin blades which is def a factor as I think the omega attack lets you cheese a lot of bosses by instantly closing distance, striking, letting her attack and dodging if necessary and then repeating. I think I have a good strategy for Eris because I find chronos much harder than her despite most people apparently finding her much harder than chronos, I can generally beat Eris without getting hit but usually need to burn 1-2 death defiances for chronos

[plain fossil]

I have a medium fear screenshot in victory bragging from earlier in the week lemme link

#h2-victory-boasting message

Thats pretty much the setup i like

I figure if i start with the assumption i want the support boons from those three gods then zeus is the best option on special

[neon olive]

Heph boons are awesome mint condition x perfect image is a great combo on the 5 min time clock since you need to clear rooms so fast anyway

[mystic bison]

Looks pretty fun, but it sucks that you can't run origination

Demeter freeze + cyclone cast maybe

[neon olive]

165 magic primed you love to see it lol

[plain fossil]

U can! Demeter cast + blitz gives origination

[mystic bison]

Huh I thought blitz didn't count as a curse

[plain fossil]

Idk i got origination sparklies i dont think theres any other way i could have?

[karmic haven]

also does anyone have like a community tier list for weapons, i struggle using anything beside spear and twin blades and am worried i’m inadvertently playing on easy mode

[spare kite]

what doesn't work with blitz is origination boosting blitz itself

takes too long and origination gets cleared before it strikes

[tired fulcrum]

Just get a third curse

No copium trust

[mystic bison]

Maybe I'm tweaking idk but I thought I couldn't pull it off before

[neon olive]

Torches god-tier don't let the haters tell you otherwise attack button I don't know her only special

[karmic haven]

torches are probably my worst weapon 😭😭😭

[tired fulcrum]

Blitz gives origination sparkles which immediately clear once you actually do enough damage to proc blitz

[mystic bison]

What if you have 3 curses going on?

In that case freeze + cyclone sounds good

[spare kite]

yeah if you have an extra curse is fine

[neon olive]

Light smite (daze all foes on revenge damage) counts for origination, yes? It has one of the little curse icons.

[karmic haven]

sorry what are origination sparkles?

[plain fossil]

Oh i didnt know that, interesting

[mystic bison]

Yep Daze is a curse

[spare kite]

is the same sprite that priviliged status used in H1 to indicate it's on I guess, is an icon next to enemies health (and I think above bosses hp bar)

[mystic bison]

It also has a distinct sound when you hit enemies

[plain fossil]

Yea its like that backstab sound

[charred monolith]

Day however many of reinforcing that omega special on torches needs genuine help if Aspect of Melinoe isn't going to actively endanger you for mediocre damage.

I want to love it, I really do

[wise nest]

We have hook knives at home
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1004618422094667777/1245895011950661682/image.png?ex=665a69a6&is=66591826&hm=13f195a29060514e74392a34517f825cdfa4e03473ad0b0f121618fd30aabd36&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=550&height=309

[sour cape]

The damage output I think is quite high

Mel Torches once you get some upgrades doesnt really have issues killing

[plain fossil]

Mel torches decent

I should record a 32 with mel torches hey it seems everyone else is recording runs with their fave builds

U all can see how much i potato versus yellow charging idiots in fields

[sour cape]

I feel like the special could stagger, Omega special ehh prob not

[plain fossil]

If omega special staggered u wouldnt play anything else

[sour cape]

Its also because r0 Mel torches feel really poor

that gets a lotta hate 💀

[plain fossil]

Ppl should play ZERO MANA TORCHES

[sour cape]

Yea running around with lotsa omega specials staggering everything is too much

[plain fossil]

Unironically tho i suspect the spam special torch setup is the best way to win on unupgraded torch

Vow of panic literally adding dps for no loss

[karmic gust]

i have died to scylla twice in my 100 runs, i feel like shes too easy

[sour cape]

I died a ton to her early on

She prob has my most deaths to bosses 😂

Cerb I got past first time I made it past Scylla

[karmic gust]

ooh thats a good idea. if i can get the artemis crit in cast i think i could be hitting massive numbers

[charred monolith]

Scylla is either cake or a nightmare and there's no in between

[karmic gust]

she does have that cake tho 👀

[sour cape]

Shes easy once you understand to focus Roxy

[charred monolith]

Pls XD

[sour cape]

But if you just try dodging around its rough

[rigid marten]

Hello everyone

[karmic gust]

mfw theres a stationary target that can barely hit you

[rigid marten]

How can I complete a run with 24 fears?

[sour cape]

Roxys got huge aoes

[rigid marten]

Struggling too much atm

[karmic gust]

but they take so long to go off

also half the time theyre on the other side of the map

[sour cape]

Hmmm

Wandering Monster, Vow of Fury, Vow of Forsaking are free/very efficient fears to take

[karmic gust]

id say just practice on +40% speed, once you have it down, their are some other vows arent too bad

[charred monolith]

Unrelated, does anyone know if Torrential Downpour's gains work with Axe + Charon aspect?

[sour cape]

After that, pick vows that your weapon cares less about

[sour cape]

Yes, stacks up if you break the cast

[sour cape]

I always got caught by the safe zone around her and then danger zone around her attaci

[charred monolith]

Nice, thanks. That tickles me

[sour cape]

and constantly getting hit dodging further away from the rings

[karmic gust]

like if you have a build in mind, the one that removes two boons from the pool is easy, adding two shields isnt too bad, timer down to 7 mins is doable, increased shop prices hurt but its also not bad, revenants are annoying af but better than extra enemies (never take this imo its so tilting having like 5 waves of enemies)

[sour cape]

I actually like extra enemies more than Rev

[karmic gust]

oh also adding +60% dmg isnt bad either since you should be avoiding most attacks at this point

[plain fossil]

Uh with respect to blue shields please consider ur weapon before doing this

[karmic gust]

oh yes

[sour cape]

Yes! Blue shields kind of disaster for axe

[karmic gust]

my heph cast build gets uber screwed by this

tho, having any cyclone boon from dem kinda negates them

so if you want high fear, just make sure to take cyclone sprint or cast

[plain fossil]

At 24 underground i would pretty much always take: forsaking, arrogance 1, speed 2, money 1 and wandering monster 2. The rest is weapon/build dependent

[sour cape]

Yea agree

[karmic gust]

yea makes sense

i hope they reconsider the onion one, its weirdly hard to find boons in the first place and giving up 4 of them is just not fun

[plain fossil]

Onion vow is good for surface rn

[karmic gust]

oh? how come

[plain fossil]

Because theres only 2 surface zones

[karmic gust]

i dont play surface much at all

[sour cape]

You know despite Pan prob needing more mana than axe, it doesnt feel nearly as bad having no mana on daggers than Axe

[karmic gust]

oh right lmao

[sour cape]

Prob because the normal special actually good

[magic moss]

depends on if you just want to beat fear 24 with god mode or beat it legit

[plain fossil]

And u get a big powerspike early from city so losing ur starter boon affects ur earlygame less

[sour cape]

while Axe special cant really be used for dmg

[karmic gust]

and you can also guarantee some boons in the city as well which is nice

[sour cape]

God mode is a legit mode since you still get all the rewards but I don't think it would change what fears you go for

[karmic gust]

hm ig its because dagger attack is still viable on pan, without mel aspect axe attack is very bad

[plain fossil]

Do u actually huh i had no idea

[sour cape]

Yea same as H1, counts for everything

[frozen anvil]

can someone explain eos, it seems so clunky

[karmic gust]

never let go of attack

[sour cape]

only difference is you see Deus Ex Machina buff at the score screen

[karmic gust]

dash backwards or forwards never sideways

[plain fossil]

Hold down attack and dont let go, dash backwards for damage, u can dash and cast while holding down attack

[frozen anvil]

but isnt special spam more damage

[plain fossil]

On eos? No not close

[karmic gust]

usually yea but not with eos

[plain fossil]

Omega attack hold on eos is like 100 damage base per attack it smokes special spam

[karmic gust]

+60% dmg goes hard, plus piercing attacks that hit twice (once out once back)

lmao i like how we are giving the same advice at the same time

[frozen anvil]

maybe just skill issue, but even when I dash in the same direction as the enemy, it feels like some of them arent hitting?

[plain fossil]

They will all hit if u dash correctly but acknowledge its not always easy bc u also need to not get hit etc

[karmic gust]

its a little finnicky, but you have to give time for the attacks to grow as well

[plain fossil]

And they wont always hit if u moved around during attack spam

[magic moss]

My 24 fear runs
Blood 1, Dominance 3, Rebuke 2, Fury 1, Suffering 1, Commotion 3, Haunting 1, Wandering 2, Scars 3, Destitution 1, Panic 1

For 32, same thing as above but with the following mods
Suffering 2, Bitterness 1, Fury 2

[karmic gust]

apollo helps with this alot, or dem so they stop moving

[plain fossil]

Because they wont be in a line then

[plain fossil]

My man over here clicking underground onion what a chad

[magic moss]

Demeter cast is the best in the game by far imo

[karmic gust]

wat

[frozen anvil]

aight, thanks alot. Just Omega Attack 👍

[olive ridge]

Can someone help me with hades steam cloud?

[karmic gust]

you dont even need omegas tbh. unless you get good early hammers its not viable

[magic moss]

no no no no Momus you legit just press cast and spam rclick until they all die, periodically making sure to step over the revanent souls

[sour cape]

Onion 👀👀

[magic moss]

play patient and dont worry about mana or omega attacks and just spam special on momus with poseidon special

legit hyper broken and freest fear runs

Momus for some reason still heals you despite having Scars 3, so you don't even need to play incredibly safe as you will always heal to at least half after every room, so defiances are almost always saved for guardians

hence, Desperation is a bait if you just want to clear high fear runs

[civic ocean]

Why deny yourself desperation, Momus can clear desperstion 2 easily, 3 if you work at it a bit

[magic moss]

I'd rather have the guarantee of clearing than forcing myself to play on a time limit. Momus almost always guarantees a clear no matter how high the heat BECAUSE it has the unique property of being the only source of healing outside of the Apollo Hestia duo that heals regardless of situation to at least half AND having Scars 3 enabled

[civic ocean]

Also no arrogance when you don't spend mana?

[plain fossil]

Er i mean i dont like timers and even i acknowledge that desperation 1 is free for even the slowest players on momus

[civic ocean]

No forsaking when you need like 1 boon?

[plain fossil]

And yea clicking damage vows over arrogance is probably not where u wanna be on momus that uses no mana ever

[magic moss]

My guy I just said what I ran when I cleared 24 and 32

could it be better, absolutely, can I change my setup, definitely

[civic ocean]

Yeah and I'm asking you why

[magic moss]

idk i did that one chaos trial and hit 0 mana and got paranoid lmfao

[civic ocean]

Like maybe u found the strats yknow gotta hear it out

[plain fossil]

Momus rly is that good u can click anything except arcana vow and it doesnt make a difference at 32 lulw

[magic moss]

lmfao tru

[plain fossil]

Fwiw i also did my first 32 on momus without a timer which let me click revenant 2

[magic moss]

If anything, this is just good to know so I can make my higher heat runs easier, not that I need to anymore lmfao

[plain fossil]

Its legitimate way to play but i think timer is probs more consistent as revenants can sometimes keep up dangerous mobs for longer

[vast quest]

Out of curiosity, what happens when you reach 30/30 testaments?

[civic ocean]

You did it

[sour cape]

Desperation 1 is 1 fear anyway, might as well save time for Momus if you need to heal up

[vast quest]

Nah only at 11/30

[sour cape]

A clears a clear for the statue anyways

[civic ocean]

Nothing happens.

[vast quest]

Oh damn alright

[sour cape]

Whew air fryer Daggers is quite funny

and kinda decent if get the Zeus lightning chains

Since your knife fan still doing great dmg

[plain fossil]

The typical momus setup at 32 doesnt have the ability to heal due to no mana fwiw

[sour cape]

Well you can take like Demeter mana boon

gives Earth anyways and free post combat heals

and if you need healing... Hephaestus would have gotten ypu there

can run into thorns for mana for healing

Even better for Strength since extra heal value to keep at 30%

Momus should prob change to require hittibg enemy with omega special because this also encourages tedium

But maybe just the downside of not great with timer is sufficient

[plain fossil]

Thats reasonable i guess, heph boon isnt a total brick otherwise unlike demeter boon as it sometimes saves u a little bit of damage

[sour cape]

If you get Coarse Grit + Hephaestus can legit do some in combat healing too

since if you got enough unreserved can heal up 15

[sour cape]

Upside of Dem is wont lose Huntress inadvertentlu

[plain fossil]

I suppose thats true lul

Honestly i finish most zero mana runs with -1000 mana primed and huntress off anyway so none of this applies to me anyway

[sour cape]

ywa

Huntress doesnt apply to Poseidon waves anyways

[plain fossil]

Especially if its run with zeus as one of the gods i generally plan for negative mana

[sour cape]

Yep static shock takes a ton

[karmic gust]

Does scorch apply on every damage instance of the dagger attack?

[plain fossil]

It does

[karmic gust]

Wait you can prime more mana than you have?? Why have I been taking mana pots wtf

[plain fossil]

Yes

[karmic gust]

Omg

[sour cape]

Yes

Including hook knives 😎

[stray knot]

Is anything other then Demeter attack viable for 32 fear? The freeze seems so ridiculously strong.

[sour cape]

Well ummm Poseidon? 😂

[civic ocean]

yeah like all of it

[broken pier]

Pos is great, aphro is solid, don’t care for Apollo, hera is bonkers

[stray knot]

With h2 dash mechanics I don't feel like I can play safe enough for bonus damage and reduced healing

[sour cape]

Armor and Momus gets around reduced healing

[stray knot]

Hmm

[civic ocean]

Most of us felt that way too but you can get there on pretty much any 3 god combo once you get cookin a bit

[stray knot]

Interesting

I just feel like I get absolutely stomped in a bad room every now and again whenever I don't have the freeze

Lose a full hp bar or worse

[sour cape]

Try Poseidon Momus for non Demeter build

[stray knot]

Haven't tried momus yey

Mostly on axe and daggers

[sour cape]

Poseidon Pan also is very strong

[stray knot]

Ive been avoiding Poseidon. It doesn't knock back primary target anymore, right? Seemed hard to justify without it.

Is the group damage just really high?

[sour cape]

Its a lot of flat dmg which is hard to get in this game

[stray knot]

Gotcha

[sour cape]

Hes H2's Zeus

Good for high number of hit weapons

[plain fossil]

Demeter is great but its not the only thing ur allowed to put on ur weapon

[tired fulcrum]

It doesnt need to knock back the target since it does enough dps to just shred their armor and stunlock them

Also you can just hide behind your cast on momus so its pretty safe

[magic moss]

For Sister blades and Circe Skull Aphrodite is BIS, for Staff and Axe Apollo can work, Hera is just a good attack boon in general for every use case, and for Flames I personally like Apollo attack on Moros

[sour cape]

Oh i messed up and took a gold room while under the chaos curse 💀

[plain fossil]

Generally i think demeter weapon is only really good on aspects that need to stand on top of ppl and struggle a bit for defensive coverage, so mel torches, mel axe, mdea that kind of thing

[magic moss]

Poseidon is very strong for any multihit or fast attacking moves as it adds flat damage instead of percent, so for weapons like Axe or Skull it doesnt really do anything as they have already very high base damage

so you would much rather prefer the dmg %

[plain fossil]

U cant deny demeter is a bit zdps at times so u do need a reason to click it

[sour cape]

Blades got a lot of good options, prob the most versatile weapon

Apollos also excellent for attack

[magic moss]

I say Aphrodite is BIS since the effective range of blades attack is within the Aphrodite attack range bonus, so you always have the atk bonus. Since its the highest multiplier, its BIS with very few exceptions like Demeter legendary build

but yeah blades can work with every Olympian in the game

[plain fossil]

Theres 3 blades aspects lul

[sour cape]

Apollo attack gets you his Legendary which is the best for omega attack spamming

[plain fossil]

Aphrodite is very good on artemis and solid on mel sure but im not sure its automatically better than every other aspect in every situation even on artemis

Its certainly my default on artemis tho

[magic moss]

I did say with a few exceptions

[sour cape]

I do Apollo for Artemis, legendary is really strong and extra aoe often more relevant for clearing than Aphro dmg

But yea Aphro is great dmg with 1 boon

[tired fulcrum]

Do you cope if you dont get explosive ambush on arty blades or do you just kill yourself

[magic moss]

but its also an isolated boon vs dedicating a build for the run, in a vacuum Aphrodite is BIS for blades

[magic moss]

you dont need any upgrade to beat the game so

[plain fossil]

U dont make builds in a vacuum tho

[sour cape]

If you get explosive Ambush, Aphro is way overkill

[plain fossil]

Like especially for underground where u have quite little boon rng u pretty much know what ur going to be clicking all game

[sour cape]

And extra range of apollo to hit more enemies is just better since well, hitting for 2k or 2.5k is still insta gibbing any mob

[plain fossil]

So apollo legendary is just part of ur plan if u want it

[sour cape]

Yea

[plain fossil]

Its not some christmasland thing as it just one boon among many that u can essentially force

[sour cape]

if going for omega attack build, id be going for Apollo legendary

[plain fossil]

If its like a 4 boon setup or it requires specific hammer then sure that point is more relevant

[magic moss]

Artemis go Apollo, Pan go Poseidon, Melinoe go Aphro attack and whatever else the game offers imo

if you want dedicated builds

[sour cape]

Mel also has argument for Apollo since backstab is also additive dmg

I mean def Apollos not strictly better or anything but i dont really think there is clear BiS

Aphro got Heartthrobs which are also good

[dusty sapphire]

I'm trying to finish the duos prophecy, what are some builds for which King's or Queen's Ransom makes sense?

[sour cape]

I think Queens Ransom is better

[dusty sapphire]

I need to get both anyway

[sour cape]

since gives +3 🤔

[tired fulcrum]

Zeus scales better with poms though

[sour cape]

Hmmmm thats true too

[plain fossil]

Ive clicked kings ransom to power up blitz before fwiw

[sour cape]

Too bad that has poor synergy with Air Quality

[onyx coral]

Does the furies arcana card work with apollo cast with Charon aaspect..? Technically no right, because the cast is over when apollo dmg kicks in?

In that case.. Isn't Zeus the go to for Charon?

[tame fern]

I've heard that Apollo's explosion has strange interactions with cast buffs, I heard that it will activate the furies bonus

[tired fulcrum]

Furies affects apollo damage but it isnt affected by the +30% from charon omega special

[tame fern]

In either case, Zeus isn't terribly desirable because it requires you to manually use an omega cast, which you don't do with Charon

Charon will pop your cast as an omega cast, but that pop means the cast is instantly gone and won't shoot Zeus's lightning bolts anymore

[onyx coral]

Yeah so alternatively, you just manually omega cast as its roughly same time as omega special, and still gain the extra time from charon aspect

[analog ether]

Gods, Polyphemus sucks to do with the axe

[tame fern]

Yes, that is true and you can use the extra time like that

But if you're using Zeus omega cast as a primary damage mechanism, you'd want it to have a shorter duration so you can use more casts (because that ~300 dmg pop is significant)

[analog ether]

You can't get into melee with him because of all his centralized AoE attacks, and all your ranged attacks have so much wind-up that you have to dodge before you can get them off.

[tame fern]

Of course, with a longer cast duration you can also keep enemies pinned longer... but with a shorter cast duration you can reposition your cast more often... etc etc

I hate how you can't block Polyphemus's ground quakes with the axe either

[onyx coral]

Zues also comes with the ranged omega cast boon

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1241592400715976885/Hades_II_2024-05-18_20-13-53.mp4?ex=6659ebc8&is=66589a48&hm=5542c7be4b71878ca6bfc62700e467f37e9a05ebac0e1c7278119546ff031d6b& you can dash during the wind up and you still get iframes during the dash

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1245929333814722610/image.png?ex=665a899d&is=6659381d&hm=8ffda475cca0eb53d21e336488953779a642e1309c3d3063787a0c4d102c8363& alright rate my yt thumbnail

[rough fjord]

it isn't too hard to outspace poly with axe imo (even without Apollo attack)

[rough fjord]

oh that's new

[tame fern]

Not when you have Apollo, but then you'd have Apollo

[rough fjord]

I remember attacking stopping dash iframes in 1

[tired fulcrum]

You also get iframes while holding torch attack and dashing

[tired fulcrum]

Arthur combo seems to have the same property as axe

[rough fjord]

ohhh

ok yeah I see what you mean

distinctly remember zooping behind enemies before the third hit for juicy backstab damage

[karmic gust]

i like it but there are weird blue lines on it

also is hearty appetite multiplicative? if not it seems kinda weak

[thorny widget]

Does rerolling a location share the same rules as Hades 1? Like, are Minor and Major rewards in the same pool (I can reward Ash into a boon) or are they separate

[civic ocean]

it's not multiplicative but it is global - so in this case because I had 500 hp it was increasing the poseidon wave damage by 50%

[analog ether]

Yeah, I'm not good enough to nail that timing

[civic ocean]

Seperate, can't reroll minor finds into anything good sadly (unless you're doing metaprogression and need one)

[analog ether]

Or you take Artificer, but most of the time there isn't room in the build

[civic ocean]

Artificer cannot be rerolled sadly (I hope this is changed for Artificer to reroll minor find doors into major ones with a diff button)

[thorny widget]

Drat, thanks

[analog ether]

Hmmm.... question about the Demeter/Aphrodite duo.

Does it apply to current health, or max health?

[civic ocean]

max

[maiden perch]

is it anyone else or just me but does it seem like after getting your god of choices boon right away, you never see that one again

[analog ether]

Okay, good. The other way would be absolutely terrible.

[maiden perch]

like ill get poseidon right away and then NEVER see another poseidon all game

[civic ocean]

If you're playing with door re-rolls, a really good way to get offered them again is to re-roll the miniboss door, there's about a 50% chance or even higher that it will roll to the god you already have

[static portal]

So I've now gotten to the point of gaining a familiar, typically playing at ~4 "heat" level (I forgot what the H2 term is for this)... what I'm finding is the challenge for most builds is doing enough dps. I can consistently breeze through with a buffed zeus cast and little else, but whenever I try to change it up, nothing is really doing enough damage.

[maiden perch]

oh cool thank you so much thats a game changer

[analog ether]

I could actually kinda see Aphro/Demeter Origination being fairly good. Demeter on your main attacks, and Aphro on the Cast. Good crowd control, and both Freeze and Weakness last for a pretty decent amount of time.

[tame fern]

Consider running no-mana builds with Huntress and the -100% magick at start of room vow, you can get a big damage boost right from the start

[civic ocean]

Something to keep track of Mr Rad Racer - damage in this game comes mostly from your attacks unless you are running a very specific build, so a good rule of thumb is "I am spending all of my mana every room?"

[static portal]

Definitely. But an Omega Zeus cast with infusion can do like 1k+ damage every 10 seconds or so. I’ve chased Special builds but none of them come close so far. Moon damage can be nearly as big but nowhere near as rapid

[analog ether]

I'm sorry, but is EVERY Lubber attack unblockable?

[bleak night]

Lubbers are the ones that smack the ground with a shockwave and then it echoes back, right ?

nvm those are the barrel throwers

[magic moss]

omega zeus cast is very good at taking down guardians but mediocre at clearing most rooms. Are you looking for builds that can clear rooms quickly or take down guardians quickly?

[bleak night]

you can block the barrels, no ? Like, as they're thrown

[analog ether]

I've never been able to block their barrel, but I swear even their MELEE attack hit me through the axe shield.

[bleak night]

I should test that out

[analog ether]

Because that's a load of bull if so

[magic moss]

you should technically be able to

how i understand the hammer blocks things is by creating a "shield" in front of you that does the blocking, similar to how a differnt game might treat a grenade with a wall and using LOS to see if you should take damage

[analog ether]

Come into one of the side rooms in Ephyra, and I get three zombies and a Lubber, all armoured, and instantly lose a DD.

[magic moss]

the barrel itself hits on your body, therefore the damage itself doesnt register until it hits you, which is past that shield

this includes melee attacks, which swings from one side to the other, which can hit you past that shield as its not a front facing attack

[bleak night]

surface runs are really difficult early on

even if you can build boons up really quickly because of the structure of Ephyra

[magic moss]

if you dash and block in the direction of the barrel explosion, then you should be able to block it

but you cannot stand still and block in the direction of the barrel

[analog ether]

Then that is definitely a load of bull, because I didn't have a choice in my positioning there.

[magic moss]

yes but once the barrel is thrown its trajectory is locked

you can still move out of the way or dash

[analog ether]

Not when they are all right up in my face the second I enter the room.

[magic moss]

thats just unlucky

[bleak night]

pretty much why I use the Ephyra map and adjust my strategy when I enter the rooms

[magic moss]

i just insta dash once i enter a room

[analog ether]

This was one of those tiny ass siderooms that split off of an encounter room.

[bleak night]

speedrun discord has a guide on Ephyra rooms and general layouts https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1245594586135527466/1245594586550632539/EphyraMap2.png?ex=6659fa9b&is=6658a91b&hm=e360ce71c6da16fb80410bd03d42c81086171f148c164200448894bdfc85ab53&

[analog ether]

Didn't have anywhere to dash to.

[dusk pumice]

omg i didnt realize medea is always in the same overworld location 😭 i thought her room just genned like that regardless of where it spawns

[bleak night]

Yeah, she's always there, and the miniboss is always only on that one room to the northwest

[dusk pumice]

what do the colors represent

[bleak night]

lemme copy paste from their discord rq

Legend:
-🔷 Light Blue (Diamond): Generally small rooms with faster combats
-🟢 Green (Circle): Smaller rooms that are generally okay (or Midboss)
-🟧 Orange (Square): Medium-sized rooms that usually are annoying but are serviceable
-🛑 Red (Hexagon): Very large rooms that are usually horrible unless you get Heracles or Artemis
-📜 Yellow (Scroll): Medea / Story room

[dusk pumice]

thank you!!

[bleak night]

They talk in the context of clearing rooms asap, so if you aren't speedrunning it, just note the size of the room

[shy summit]

interesting meta info for timer fear as well
god ephyra is so good

[wise nest]

wait this is huge

55 fear surface possible???

[violet temple]

this is so clutch

didn't know the room location mattered

[timber pawn]

What the heck

Also had no idea

[bleak night]

Yeah, when I play Axe I just focus on the small rooms first since they're always in AoE and swing range

[civic ocean]

working on yt thumbnails btw

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1245949779096109088/image.png?ex=665a9ca7&is=66594b27&hm=b020f190f29a703f8ce02d6164e5d3b2ad49ada2776164334095ae8764140d5a&

[bleak night]

Ooooh

[plain fossil]

Yea most of this u just get used to after a while, its relevant even for non speedrunners because some of the rooms have more potential small room spawns

Like im pretty sure the miniboss room cannot spawn a small room, for example

[civic ocean]

what do the colours mean

the map needs a legend lol

[plain fossil]

Fast vs slow rooms im 99% sure

[civic ocean]

is orange like medium speed

[bleak night]

#h2-builds-and-combat message

[plain fossil]

Green is fastest, all the really big fat rooms are red

[bleak night]

Mostly just the size of the rooms, meaning you can clear stuff faster since the enemies are more bunched up

[plain fossil]

Yea

[civic ocean]

I figured, this will be good when I map surface

[plain fossil]

A lot of the blue and green rooms are dangerous on high fear tho

[civic ocean]

Snorlax staff YT vid is up now

[bleak night]

true, yeah.

For casuals as well, you'd want the red ones since the arena is massive so you have breathing room

[plain fossil]

Because theyre small and theres a lot of stuff happening + barrel throwers area deny you

Like if im playing surface without a timer its basically reversed yeah

[bleak night]

tbh when I play surface casually, I just pick whatever boons I want so my build is nice

[plain fossil]

I wonder if anybody noted the number of potential small room spawns in each room, speedrunners wouldnt care i assume but its interesting

[plain fossil]

Yea but when u have a choice of which room to reroll

[bleak night]

I suppose, yeah

[plain fossil]

I agree im not gonna pick a fast room with a crappy boon over a slow room with a good boon