h2-builds-and-combat

[brazen ore]

Lmao I didn't know that that's cute

[civic ocean]

He just completely no sells it too

[merry flint]

i didn't realize it while big but tiny melinoe vs icarus should also have tiny melinoe portrait

[iron flame]

i feel like it might be lol cause i have almost every arcane maxed out. i didnt even realize it existed until i saw it on a friends save file

[mystic bison]

Best Circe boon is the one that removes a vow

[merry flint]

that's a thing? damn

[civic ocean]

You say that but try being on a momus antler run where it removes Scars and then you get a fountain

[mystic bison]

Yep, removed the more % dmg from enemies vow completely on my 32 fear run

[merry flint]

i just won't run antler too much of a headache

ez (skill issue)

[devout jungle]

That assumes you are running Momus AND surface.. mental torture for me

[brazen ore]

Antler seems fun but I am not nearly careful enough for antler runs

I go hee hee hoo hoo I can take this hit

[devout jungle]

Antler is fun but momus is turbo boring

[night gazelle]

Ok the Antler thing is easier to learn than I thought: #h2-victory-boasting message

[mystic bison]

Momus on surface is much easier than anything else

[modern yacht]

Got this build on a surface supply run, I always get the fun stuff on the surface. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/827690475459706920/1243630023416614994/Screenshot_2024-05-24_111549.png?ex=66522c37&is=6650dab7&hm=59f5db9dbbb3811f37a5c4ea10f240c1f6a980e717e7b818fd533f4b662ea3ea&

[mystic bison]

High fear surface is complete cancer

[civic ocean]

I kinda wanna do heph into hera into antler on Pan or Artemis

[merry flint]

supply chain kinda mid atm cuz no content

[summer seal]

Weirdly, I find antler runs easier and less skill intensive than otherwise. Once you are set on the damage thresholds for that and the strength arcana, you just wipe everything out so quickly you don't really need to worry about getting hit

[night gazelle]

Yeah Antler is an okay concept, kind of like playing Stubborn Defiance--but there are some balance quirks

[night gazelle]

Yeah this is my experience trying it out a little, but also playing an easy weapon

[merry flint]

i only took it for the prophecy

[devout jungle]

Not denying that. I just hate Momus and how op and boring it is

[brazen ore]

How much damage does fully upgraded antler do?

[summer seal]

All of it

[warped harness]

it doesnt do damage its crit chance isnt it?

[brazen ore]

Oh lmao yeah

[mystic bison]

I kinda enjoy it I'll miss it after the giga nerf

[dawn quiver]

40%

[blissful wren]

40% crit chance

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1243618761940926465/1243630819223011348/image.png?ex=66522cf4&is=6650db74&hm=bcc86307f57eb22af2048d5fef68815a58e6a0a8e5abaeb91d19fe38f78a4942& do I just never turn on the game again because the number looks nice?

[zenith bolt]

grindset

[blissful wren]

which is 80% dmg

[warped harness]

how will you reach the next 100 hour threshmark if you do?

[fringe lichen]

insert any word banned by the automod those spinny *insert any word banned by the automod shades

[brazen ore]

Piss those spinny piss shades

[mystic bison]

The ones in Oceanus?

[night gazelle]

Er this is the right one haha #h2-victory-boasting message

[brazen ore]

I don't mind them half as much as screamer ladies

[devout jungle]

I just want it to do less. 0 brain auto aim double DPS hammer, infinite sustain for beginners, healing thru 100% healcut, not magick reliant, only need 1 main boon..

[spare kite]

Yippeees or the medium size ghosts

[timber pawn]

I get hit by yipees an embarrassing amount

[brazen ore]

I love yipees, they're so cute

[merry flint]

i hope they get the other weapons up to par or else its gonna suck

i loved the power of the portable fire hydrant

[blissful wren]

AoE, push back, applies slip, potential to get x2.5 damage against bosses

[mystic bison]

2 chaos pfp's with completely opposite opinions

[devout jungle]

Lmao

[spare kite]

Truly chaotic

[merry flint]

sure sounds like something chaos would say

[blissful wren]

pretty chaotic

[civic ocean]

Ppl are gonna be so sad if Momus Poseidon gets nerfed

[mystic bison]

Lore accurate Chaos

[merry flint]

i hope they don't nerf poseidon mad fun on melee blades

[spare kite]

Daily chaos boons appreciation message

[summer seal]

Which is 100% going to happen. I just need to get my 32 heat clears taken care of first

[mystic bison]

Idk when I see staff on dark thirst I just kinda like it how I can shut my brain off and enjoy my guaranteed win

[brazen ore]

Honestly I think it doesn't need a huge nerf, more that other things need to be able to compete. You have to be planning for it to unlock its full potential, same with anything else, it's not like most players will stumble into it unless they're looking up the meta

[merry flint]

i never bothered with thirst buffs in either game until i really had no opinion on which weapon to take

[mystic bison]

Thirst gets you like 80 bones alone, it's nice to have

[spare kite]

Yeah I like the bones here more than dark thirst lol

Also I enjoy running all 5 weapons here to some degree

[celest swallow]

thirst always guides which run i'm doing next, it's nice to keep me on my toes and trying things out

[devout jungle]

Yeah but currently nothing can compete, it's not even close. And the fact that it's the best aspect for speedruns AND the best aspect for beginners (imo) makes it stupid

[civic ocean]

Do you think there will be categories for single wep/rotating weapon 32+ winstreaks? Or an all-wep run category?

[spare kite]

Can't say the same about sword/spear/fists

[celest swallow]

well not always but yknow

[mystic bison]

For maximum dark farming in Hades 1 you had to do it on lower heats which was not nice

Dark rooms barely gave any

[spare kite]

Gotta visit the homie chaos for darkness

[brazen ore]

My biggest issue with it from a design philosophy is that I don't like that it's good for its like passive feature and not the thing that makes it different. Idk if I'm saying that right

[ocean quail]

I asked it before didn't notice if it was answered, can Blitz/Blast/Vent crit?

[civic ocean]

Sometimes

[mystic bison]

I like that boss resources are constant across all heats now in Hades 2

[spare kite]

If you have global crit chance yeah

[ocean quail]

Great thanks.

[merry flint]

melinoe discovers farming

[gritty heath]

Anyone got tips for fighting Chronos with omega builds? mostly talking about non-cast builds, my last two runs have been aspect of thanatos and mel staff, focusing on omega attack and they just feel so much less effective on Chronos specifically. thanatos spends time channeling only for him to teleport

[spare kite]

Someone put the "fish fear me" cap on Mel

[merry flint]

charon axe omega special with apollo cast

although my first clear was with mel axe apollo omega special spam

[warped harness]

pink aura.

[sour cape]

Whirlwind is pretty hard to use

vs Chronos

[spare kite]

Pray to chaos for channel speed

[warped harness]

#h2-builds-and-combat message

[mystic bison]

For axe you pray to God for fast channel hammer

Mel staff has in built faster channeling

[brazen ore]

It's an aspect, it's not the best for beginners because they haven't unlocked aspects yet. H1 has aspects where you can only possibly beat extremely high heat with them too, Zeus shield is the only thing that made 64 heat even viable. I do think it needs some adjustment for sure but i don't think it needs an extremely massive overhaul

[warped harness]

the mel torch aura builds, technically any build with mel torches becomes an omega build bc of how holding the button works

[civic ocean]

For Mel Staff I think the play is to look for the Apollo Legendary Boon Exceptional Talent along with the Demeter boon Weed Killer and potentially as well the Double Cataclysm hammer.

[night gazelle]

Hmm so how do you usually activate Messenger

[tall notch]

For Mel staff in particular, if you max it out you get a good amount of channel speed and you can simply keep your range

[civic ocean]

I don't remember, what is the requirements again

[gritty heath]

my approach was weed killer + hera magicka for sustain

[spare kite]

3 of same cost iirc

[zenith bolt]

opposite of queen's requirement

[sour cape]

Prob just nerfing the double shot hammer

[warped harness]

3 of the same cost is pretty easy

[civic ocean]

Oh I usually do Furies Lovers Titan and dmg down into Antler + Strength?

[tall notch]

I get it with the 3-costs because they are all good

[civic ocean]

Or if no strength just dmg down into antler

[merry flint]

this would be nice tbh

[night gazelle]

Yeah--I usually like lots of rerolls, DDs ofc, Origination, and either Huntress or Death based on build

[mystic bison]

Charon is much more consistent than spin axe, very doable even without faster channeling

[civic ocean]

Or the 3 costs ye

[tall notch]

Zone rerolls + origination are guaranteed 2/3 for messenger, the third can depend on build

[devout jungle]

The requirement for aspects is quite low. My main issue is that it's incredibly safe with one of the highest damage potential

[night gazelle]

Nah Momus needs more of a nerf than that

[merry flint]

no moonshot momus is the kind of weapon i want lol

[civic ocean]

Yeah Fates Origination Huntress/Death also works

[zenith bolt]

or moon for some weps

[sour cape]

Nerfing double shot and nerfing the special dmg buff and it'll be fine

[night gazelle]

Yeah Titan is what I was trying to figure out

[sour cape]

Or maybe require hitting an enemy to proc the heal

[brazen ore]

Maybe the distance of the special also

[civic ocean]

I think the Momus and Poseidon nerfs are almost clear IMO:

Momus:

-power bonus increased, now only applies to Omega Special

Poseidon:

-wave damage increased, now has an internal cooldown of X seconds

[mystic bison]

Remember that they still need to make Momus a viable weapon, not just nerf it to the ground and make it unusable

[sour cape]

Yea

Momus could be more for healing than giga max dmg

[devout jungle]

If that was a patch I'd get a heart attack honestly

[zenith bolt]

im sure they'll figure out something fun for it

[night gazelle]

The special damage is big issue yeah. 4x special spam damage puts the special damage just out of line. And that's the reason that Double Moonshot is broken. 2x damage multplicative could be okay on something that's not meant to be a damage workhorse because it costs no mana

[tall notch]

My issue with this Momus rework is that it'll kill any and all variety between staff aspects. They're all just different flavours of omega boost

[jovial cove]

Is poseidon good on anything that isn't a specific staff and knife build

[mystic bison]

Circe needs a complete rework, make it attack centric - faster channel speed during serenity and it requires less hits

[civic ocean]

I mean I think Circe should just be ground-up reworked

[brazen ore]

Applying double moonshot to only omega would be an easy fix imo

[gritty heath]

spin more fun though

[mystic bison]

I disagree

[civic ocean]

Even if nothing changed with Momus, Circe and Mel are really similar already

[devout jungle]

Torch I guess but you'll get burnt for not going pink aura

[south cedar]

Poseidon is good on everything

[nova dune]

I use thanatos aspect for cast builds lol

[south cedar]

Except axe maybe

[mystic bison]

I'd like Charon better even if it wasn't for the atrocious channel speed for the spin

[merry flint]

idk about specific i had fun with knife melee poseidon

[brazen ore]

I love knifes melee

[sour cape]

Charons doing specials anyways

[merry flint]

wasn't all that strong tbh

[devout jungle]

Just roll the channel speed hammer 🔨🔨🔨

[brazen ore]

Way more than momus staff. I like getting up close and omega specialing like a shotgun

[sturdy trail]

So they were just not gonna tell us Medea aspect releases all her skulls at once on special hit, huh?

[merry flint]

yeah its kinda bad writing

[mystic bison]

I'd give up a dd if it meant I get to reroll hammers

[sour cape]

Poseidon getting ICD would prob screw him over, Zeus didnt have one in H1

[civic ocean]

They tell you that explicitly do they not

[sour cape]

I hear good for torches

[sturdy trail]

All they say is "on impact" and there's no mention of the skulls exploding in particular

[civic ocean]

The icd would basically be as long as each axe hits and the flat damage would be buffed

[sturdy trail]

You could infer it, but I definitely didnt know that until someone told me

[tall notch]

I don't like melee that much in this game in general. My favourite thing to do on the dagger is hit-and-run with omega teleports

[mystic bison]

Supergiant also need to make a pure attack (no omega) staff build viable

[sturdy trail]

now thats fun

[sour cape]

I feel like it'd be better if Poseidon scaled with attack speed

[tall notch]

I think it's also how arty runs high fear? I've been slowly learning the playstyle, managed to make it out of 40 fear Erebus but died in Oceanus

[mystic bison]

Why have the hammer that disables the omega attack otherwise? I'd enjoy a reverse Momus build

[brazen ore]

It's definitely more punishing and it's probably why it's taken me so long to get anywhere with it lol

[sturdy trail]

Yeah absolutely, you can also just hold attack and dash around in slow motion if you're running that card, but at 40 you might have to take no arcana idk

[timber pawn]

I wonder if you could use hermes keepsake in tartarus for charon aspect, if you don't get the channel speed improvements you want. If you're running 5 min timer it might do the trick

[tall notch]

Either reworked Circe or hidden aspect could become the no-omega attack build weapon

[tall notch]

EW NO you are not touching no arcana at 40 fear. It's literally only going to be a thing in 55 fear lol

[civic ocean]

It would be better but not in a way that ever felt fair elsewhere, if Poseidon scales with attack speed having him a balanced state for Blades is and Staff is always going to make him feel useless for Axe and to an extent Torches (who have their own ICD) and Skull

Which I guess is fine if they don't want every god to feel good on every wep, but it feels like they're close to that already

[sturdy trail]

thats good, so you can do what I mentioned then, its good for cheesing revanant pick ups

[tall notch]

The game is designed around fighting at a range, from all the enemies that punish being close to them, the cast creating distance and 2nd dash being replaced with sprint

[devout jungle]

The only time where it's okay to touch that disgusting thing is to get rid of arcana hp and dd to get a new seed faster 🙏

[tall notch]

Which personally I don't mind since i like ranged

[mystic bison]

X amount of hits procing serenity, which would give a % dmg boost would be pretty neat

[sturdy trail]

good idea

[brazen ore]

Look if they give me close combat daggers I'm gonna use them

[tall notch]

Yeah I've been trying to do the dash while channeling tech too, it's solid

[tall notch]

There is a case for getting testaments with it if you kill Chronos early and your arcana tree is nowhere near maxxed out I guess?

[sour cape]

I think thas fine, Zeus wasnt good for every weapon in H1 either. And sometimes just gotta make do with whacha get.

[knotty fulcrum]

are there builds for staff other than momus and omega special? Ig maybe some cast build can anyone suggest smth?

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIw_nrtPowY

[mystic bison]

Does anyone even use staff omega special?

[civic ocean]

Yeah, Mel Staff has two builds that have cleared 32 atm, Cold's Slam Down Big Stylr Build and my Air Fryer Cast Build

[sour cape]

Use it allthe time for healing on Momus

[knotty fulcrum]

ah i meant omega attack sorry

[devout jungle]

Really stretching it lmao

[merry flint]

yeah but hermes keepsake timer sucks

[tall notch]

I do on Mel staff if the game only gives me an omega special hammer and not an omega attack hammer

[mystic bison]

It barely heals you though

[nocturne crown]

Thats how I did my 32 runs

[knotty fulcrum]

what are those?

[sturdy trail]

Anyone know if there's a cap to how many heart breaker hearts you can have rotating around mel at a time

[sour cape]

You can spam it against a wall and get to half hp every room, thats pretty good value

[civic ocean]

Colds is omega attack/omega special depending on hammers

[tall notch]

Honestly it is pretty good when maxxed out. It's a channel speed keepsake and assuming 5 min timer it lasts you a zone

[timber pawn]

If you're running 5 min timer already it might be enough of a bandaid to get the win

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah thats how I did mine also with like 4x attack (hammer + apollo legendary)

[civic ocean]

Mine is Zeus omega cast followed by air quality + scorch

[merry flint]

i mean in the sense of 'this timer counts down when it really shouldnt'

[nocturne crown]

was about to write hat too

[mighty dust]

Has anyone tried the aspect of Persephone Skull? I don't seem to understand the glory thing (and can't see any visual indicators that it ever procs)

[tall notch]

Rn the best thing to do with it is treat it as a stat stick for omega spam builds

[timber pawn]

Has a gauge near your death defiances. It works, just slow gain

[brazen ore]

Add on Aphro healing you to full if you have at least 50% and you're gtg

[mystic bison]

Ignore glory for now, play it for the fat omega special boost

[zenith bolt]

not specifically your fault but i swear i see this question every two hours

[mighty dust]

Gotcha, thanks y'all

[sturdy trail]

There's a small icon to the right of your health bar, gradually (slowly) it fills up when you do dmg. Skelly may or may not trigger it appropriately, probably a bug

[sour cape]

Yea that combos great

[tall notch]

Which is the more common question, skull builds or torch builds?

[knotty fulcrum]

oh so the scorch does 15 damage each hit? that seems cool

[devout jungle]

Am I the only one who spent AGES charging up the glory meter on skelly??

[brazen ore]

Torch builds cause it SUCKS -

I am forcibly removed from the premises

[civic ocean]

Glory extends the duration of your impervious Omega Special - but it requires 500 damage to get to minimum charge and 5000 damage to get to maximum charge.

You can either play it without worrying about Glory and Spamming Omega Special for 30% more damage

Or go into Omega Casts and use the max charge Glory to deal incredible damage 1 time to bosses

[merry flint]

ADVANCING HAMMER DOESNT INCREASE CRIT CHANCE ON ASPECT OF THANATOS

[mystic bison]

How feasible is this with a timer though

[zenith bolt]

i mean more specifically the "is persephone bugged?" question is very common

[civic ocean]

It changes Scorch from 40 DPS to 180

[zenith bolt]

does pyro technique affect that at all or no

[knotty fulcrum]

I enjoy mel torches with omega special spam (poseidon, aphro or even hestia work). but if you want a free run I suggest eos with hera or smth on attack. really safe build and also deals a lot of damage

[tall notch]

With how counterintuitive the DPS change is this has to be a bug

[civic ocean]

The legendary makes it worse iirc

[zenith bolt]

incredible.

[merry flint]

i see that thanatos question every few minutes ig

[sour cape]

Should be fine for 9 mins, I was spamming that for heals and still woulda made it

[knotty fulcrum]

and i assume you do scorch on attack? and just use the normal attack? or maybe just spam special?

[civic ocean]

I don't know tbh I refuse to believe a team of designers/testers cooked up Scorch, Air Quality and Thermal Dynamics and didn't test the interaction

[sour cape]

If took the timer fear 💀

[brazen ore]

At some point after I start doing higher fear I am gonna give torches a tenth chance but they just don't mesh with my playstyle at all right now lmao

[civic ocean]

Anything you can spam, you have to keep scorch at a high number to own bosses with it

[sour cape]

its not unintuitive, min tick increases to 30 means small, fast ticking dots do a lot more 😎

[knotty fulcrum]

and is fire estinguisher good?

[merry flint]

Fire Extinguisher is about as good as current tf2 axtinguisher

[civic ocean]

Bricks the build

The part that is in favor of it being a bug is that none of hestia's scorch related boons except the omega special one make Air Fryer better

Many of them make it worse

[knotty fulcrum]

not even the legendary?

[weary dune]

It does say on impact

[civic ocean]

The legendary explicitly makes it worse

[brazen ore]

It seems like there are a lot more antisynergy boons here than in h1 although I could just be misremembering

[zenith bolt]

if they just made scorch base dps better, reworked pyro technique, and made her boons give you more scorch application as you get more of them (like how poseidon's stuff makes poseidon do more poseidon)

[sturdy trail]

yeah yeah yeah, listenbuddy if you don't say special I ain't gonna think special

[knotty fulcrum]

maybe I don't know how scorch works. it's damage per second or smth? ig if that's it I understand how legendary is bad

[zenith bolt]

scorch aq is jank that makes scorch good

[devout jungle]

It's a lot, but pleeeease do all of that 🙏

[civic ocean]

Yeah what I imagine will happen in future patches is that both Air Quality and Scorch will be individually buffed and then stop working together

[tall notch]

I really really want them to rework scorch. I love the pyromancer fantasy and it's just so criminally underpowered without an infusion Hestia can't even work towards

[zenith bolt]

i personally hate shocking loss because it has nothing to do with zeus' boons. this complaint also goes for aphrodite's legendary

[blissful wren]

I think scorch rate should be 25 + (scorch value)^n so that its low at low number to allow using it for origination but gets faster as u get a lot

[civic ocean]

Scorch deals 40 dps in 6 ticks

Air quality sets each tick to 30 dmg

Hestia's legendary increases the amount of damage each tick does so all it does is deplete the scorch faster

[zenith bolt]

apollo makes sense bc his whole thing is "more and bigger" and his legendary gives you more attacks and bigger cost

[sturdy trail]

and for a legendary, it should be a higher percent, something coo coo like 10-15 not 7

[knotty fulcrum]

oh ok thanks. I'll try the run right now

[brazen ore]

I kinda hate uhh what's the Zeus thing called. The thundercloud

[sturdy trail]

Blitz

[brazen ore]

Smite. Blight. Something like that - oh yeah

[civic ocean]

Strongly recommend turning on Vow of Forsaking and taking every wind boon you get to make Air Quality more consistent

[zenith bolt]

hephaestus isn't related to his boons but does fit his general utility focus

[knotty fulcrum]

also another question is how do I make zeus omega cast deal more damage? Haven't played with cast too much

[sturdy trail]

I saw someone say blitz isn't working appropriately as a curse for +50% card, dunno if its true

[brazen ore]

Maybe I am just not seeing it but I haven't ever felt like it helped

[tall notch]

Zeus legendary is good on paper considering that it does the opposite of what one of the most hated fears (more enemies) does. The percentage is just kinda underwhelming for a legendary

[zenith bolt]

i have no complaints abt the functionality of shocking loss, just that it basically exists in its own world with no relation to anything else he does

[civic ocean]

Make it work on Chronos you cowards

[knotty fulcrum]

why vow of the forsaking lol?

[zenith bolt]

you could reflavor shocking loss and it could easily fit artemis, for example

[turbid hull]

hi

[zenith bolt]

hi

[civic ocean]

As you delete boons from the boon pool it will make Air Quality more likely to appear (I THINK)

Actually if @turbid hull is around and wants to investigate this, I'd be curious to know if I am out to lunch

[sturdy trail]

And its new name: BOOM, HEADSHOT!

[knotty fulcrum]

Eh ig next time anyway since I started the run. I'm not playing heat atm cause i don't think there is any benefit rn for me (since I finished the testaments)

[turbid hull]

Depends if Legendaries, since they are unique, have a set chance of happening once the requirements are met, or if they are thrown in a pool with then a uniform chance for each boon in the pool once the requirements are met

I do remember seeing a Legendaries fixed chance, so it's probably the former

[civic ocean]

Do infusions, once they have their appearance criteria met, have a greater rarity than a regular boon?

(Infusions are "if you have X element, do Y boons)

[zenith bolt]

infusions are considered common boons internally

you can get them while having the common-only chaos curse

[civic ocean]

I know they also don't prime

[turbid hull]

Infusions don't have a set chance by default

[zenith bolt]

the only infusion that this doesnt always apply to is Chant

[civic ocean]

Okay much thanks for confirming!

[spare kite]

Oh yeah, how does chaos legendary works here

[zenith bolt]

i think it's just +1 defiance

[spare kite]

(aka is it affected by legendary buffs this time)

[zenith bolt]

oh you mean like obtaining it

[spare kite]

Yeah

[turbid hull]

Default chances are
Rare: 0.10 (10%)
Epic: 0.05 (5%)
Duo: 0.12 (12%) (once requirements are met)
Legendary: 0.10 (10%) (once requirements are met)

[zenith bolt]

how tf does barren curse work for chaos? it's a heroic boon which you can't normally get in a vacuum

yet i've heard it's just pure rng

[spare kite]

For reference: chaos legendary in H1 first had to pass a 20% to be available then needs to actually appear on the menu
So stuff like yarn/god's legacy were useless at finding it

[turbid hull]

I know Chaos Legendary for sure needs at least to have another Chaos Boon "finished"

[hollow nova]

i'm using aspect of pan, should I choose do spiral knives which buffs specials by 40% and fires 16 shots around me or they deal 15% extra damage and hits 2 more foes

[zenith bolt]

for reference (from somenoob) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1241928479520325673/image.png?ex=664bfb87&is=664aaa07&hm=8952e4e7cb48e80bbf43cbd02139fc5f62ba23bd2e75d9420f9fe276586c39b5&

[civic ocean]

Hook Knives >>>>>

[spare kite]

#h1-discussion message better explanation

[zenith bolt]

maybe ill go digging thru the files to figure out barren when i get the chance

[turbid hull]

Well atleast it's the luckiest Encounter number for Barren

[knotty fulcrum]

spiral knives is kinda bad from my expirience. it doesn't have enough range to hit the enemies in your cast

[turbid hull]

It can be from 7 to 11

[zenith bolt]

specifically those encounters only?

[hollow nova]

so dancing

[zenith bolt]

so what, mid-late erebus?

[civic ocean]

Gotta get real close

[spare kite]

Lmao I'm goated

[spare kite]

How long the curse lasts it means

[civic ocean]

Dancing is better for mobs, Spiral is better for bosses

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah but still the blades you shoot behind don't seem to reach the target. ig for multiple foes it works but I would choose dancing

[zenith bolt]

oh ok

[civic ocean]

They do if you get real close

[zenith bolt]

i think i've seen 11 on barren LOL

[spare kite]

I got the boon at Oceanus iirc

[turbid hull]

The game works with a class system. e.g. some Boons inherit properties from some default and set stuff, and sometimes overwrite them. The "normal" Encounter(s) number for Chaos boons is from 3 to 5, but Barren overwrites it to between 7 to 11

[knotty fulcrum]

so can anyone help me with that please

[zenith bolt]

barren feels like super extremely rare

[turbid hull]

It has a set 10% chance of dropping I believe

[zenith bolt]

given i have like 160+ runs and have never seen it, despite taking chaos very consistently

[turbid hull]

And it also needs to have gotten one other Chaos Boon

[civic ocean]

Storm Ring itself scales up very well with rarity and poms, but also Demeter's Local Climate and Chaos' Cast damage boons are really good.

Storm Ring does just fall off in the lategame though, generally speaking

[spare kite]

HAHAHA I knew it

[turbid hull]

Barren is the only Chaos Curse with UpgradePairedRarity set to true. Presumably it's the thing that makes it pop always Heroic?

[civic ocean]

Does that include from the keepsake or not

[knotty fulcrum]

The thing is I saw some runs where it was doing like 3k damage to chronos and I just didn't get how

[turbid hull]

And also the only way to get Heroic Chaos Boons, I'm assuming.

[zenith bolt]

yeah i think

[night gazelle]

What's Barren?

[turbid hull]

Maybe? I'm not sure

[zenith bolt]

so i just need to roll an epic chaos boon as my 2nd and then it has a chance to be upgraded to barren?

[turbid hull]

A Chaos Curse.

For the next X Encounter(s), your Arcana Cards have no effect.

[sour cape]

It does? 😭😭

[turbid hull]

(X being between 7 and 11)

[night gazelle]

I've never seen that

[spare kite]

Oh yeah do you know what vow of forsaking does to chaos? (Boons not taken disappear from this night)

[sour cape]

I thought its pretty great all the way thru

[zenith bolt]

it's frustratingly rare, from my experience

[civic ocean]

Usually that's something like Glorious Disaster which is Apollo and Zeus' duo boon (which ironically needs apollos cast)

Also it can just be like local climate + crit chance + Moon + etc etc

[turbid hull]

Hmmm I don't know, didn't look at it yet. I would assume it only affects the "Blessing" part (e.g. the positive part)

But it may also affect the Curses

[civic ocean]

It kills mobs all the way for sure

[sour cape]

Its not too terrible vs Chronos either

just gotta kite around him?

[turbid hull]

You can't have those Keepsakes get a 4th level with that one Boon right? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1243642240467865682/image.png?ex=66523797&is=6650e617&hm=e0db6103f8f5fbac268c6acf6648a6f5059f8feef1607d3ca6cfcbe30b4bd55e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1415&height=308

[civic ocean]

Compared to fully realized builds I think its less dmg unless you get a chaos boost or maybe the fleece

[zenith bolt]

yeah, god keepsakes and narcissus and echo are excluded

[sour cape]

Yea Fleece would be real nice for that

[turbid hull]

thanks for confirmation

[zenith bolt]

https://i.imgur.com/nSuDna2.png

[sour cape]

Would you also want Origination?

[spare kite]

Is 4* embryo just heroic boons?

[civic ocean]

Idk maybe

[zenith bolt]

yeah

[spare kite]

Gonna start forcing the duo each time now

[zenith bolt]

circe's gets you rank 4 arcana

[civic ocean]

I don't like Origination on cast builds but I might be wrong

[sour cape]

50% is a lot

[zenith bolt]

additively, eh

it's helpful but not as big as it looks

[sour cape]

Not too much dmg taken debuffs right?

[civic ocean]

It's hard to stick Origination onto things with Zeus Cast as one of your gods is the main concern

[knotty fulcrum]

if you try enough you should be able to activate it with attack + sprint/dash

[zenith bolt]

i dont think origination is +damage taken

[sour cape]

its not?

[turbid hull]

I'm curious, how was this achieved? Does getting the thing that adds levels to Keepsakes just change the displayed level for that night?

[spare kite]

Casts don't get that many buffs in general but also origin hard to get online maybe

[zenith bolt]

yeah

[turbid hull]

Gotcha

[civic ocean]

Omega Cast builds are like the one time I think I want to bring Fleece to Chronos

[turbid hull]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1243643096546152490/image.png?ex=66523863&is=6650e6e3&hm=0f45708804303a88a5fa016751e7d356a7652d851970a2aed8b14e4f7c2657d6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1177&height=662 I haven't played that much so I didn't know (I don't have much 3 stars)

[sour cape]

I thought any omega build wants fleece

[zenith bolt]

i assume all the rank 4 arcana are just a natural progression from rank 3. i know rank 6 aspects are generally the same except persephone goes up by 10% i think instead of 5?

[civic ocean]

But normally I'm just rerolling for Cast dmg at chaos or taking Torrential Downpour + Local Climate or Air Frying

[civic ocean]

40% additive isn't that strong

[sour cape]

Oh?

[turbid hull]

I did not check the Rank 4 Arcanas. However I know some stuff isn't linear, found about 4 Boons that weren't linear, and one aspect as you said

[sour cape]

Shouldbt diff sources of +dmg be multiplicative?

[spare kite]

Nah

[sour cape]

Like + Omega dmg isnt that common

[devout jungle]

That would get out of control so fast

[turbid hull]

uh, no, would be way too easy

[zenith bolt]

i think almost all +damage is additive with each other

[turbid hull]

Yes

[knotty fulcrum]

how do percentages work tho? I heard someone say they are not additive. like if I have +100% damage for attacks from smth and +50 from another thing is it not +150%

[zenith bolt]

the only one im not sure of is sweet surrender (more damage to weak) and i guess soul mate by extension

[sour cape]

Like if you had + dmg and + omega dmg shouldnt those be multiplicative?

[blissful wren]

so if u omega cast its 100+(omega dmg)+(cast dmg)

[turbid hull]

There is a special property of some boons that makes their damage/effect multiplicative, I believe.

[civic ocean]

I think I'd prefer Blackened Fleece to be more like "your Omega moves channel 30% faster" or "your omega moves cost 30% less mana" than 40% dmg

[spare kite]

Oh yeah might as well confirm it
Is dodge additive here

[zenith bolt]

i feel like soul mate should be mult based on how small its % is but idk

[turbid hull]

What dodge specifically?

[sour cape]

Dodge I heard is additive which sounds op

Hermes dodge and the messenger card

[civic ocean]

Evasion and Daze are the two things we're concerned with here

[spare kite]

Yeah idk how hermes dodge interacts with daze

[blissful wren]

• echos EvadeEvadeEvade

[turbid hull]

Let me check

[sturdy trail]

Not getting hit when you would’ve

[zenith bolt]

greater evasion
evade evade evade
the messenger
wispy wiles

what else for dodge?

[spare kite]

Some hexes (+1% when not ready)

[sour cape]

So is blackened fleece additive with Origination?

[civic ocean]

Yes which is additive with local climate, downpour, etc etc

[sour cape]

Cos I thought being diff buffs of + dmg theyd be multiplicative

[sturdy trail]

Pretty sure the games math is multiplicative

[turbid hull]

Looks additive to me

[sour cape]

oh 😔😔

[turbid hull]

For dodge at least

[civic ocean]

%damage is an additive multipler (english is hard)

[blissful wren]

Origination might be multiplicative bcz its damage taken bur idk

[sour cape]

Welp Hermes dodge buff is quite good value if you run Messenger

[turbid hull]

e.g. if you have 25% dodge from one source, and 15% from another source, you have a 40% Dodge chance

[sour cape]

Yea I thought Orginationnwas dmg taken buff so multiplicative

[turbid hull]

Heroic Hermes dodge is 25% fyi

[zenith bolt]

20% + 50-0% + 10% + 15% + daze which is 10% i think

[civic ocean]

For example furies and origination is x1.8 total not 1.3 then 1.5

[zenith bolt]

is heroic hermes possible?

[turbid hull]

only Quick Buck isn't possible for Hermes Heroic I believe

[blissful wren]

Yea i had a run with 75% dodge with aspect of thanatos so it was nice being protected from some screw ups

[strange oasis]

With rare crop maybe?

[zenith bolt]

oh true

[spare kite]

Rare crop couldn't hit hermes in H1 at least

[sturdy trail]

Not all of it ofc, but a good amount of it is.

[blissful wren]

also with narcisus keepsake

[civic ocean]

Everything except for Crit and stuff that makes more stuff like Exceptional Talent and Hook Knives IIRC

[turbid hull]

If there's a property of certain boons that makes their effect multiplicative, it's best to believe the rest is additive.

[sturdy trail]

that’s why you can get big busta dmg. I had a trap in H1 do 22k dmg with a single activation

[civic ocean]

Which boons?

[spare kite]

Trap dmg being multi is so peak

[blissful wren]

the aphro zues duo is multiplicative x2 for blitz

[sour cape]

I see but why isnt it x1.4 by Blackened Fleece since Fury/Origination inc dmg taken?

[spare kite]

Oh yeah is movement speed additive here or multi

[civic ocean]

Fleece is 1.4+1.3+1.5

[sour cape]

Oh

How bout weapon buffs?

[civic ocean]

Same thing

[sour cape]

😔

[zenith bolt]

i wonder if that one hammer for axe is additive or not

[blissful wren]

You mean 1+.4+.3+.5 lol

[civic ocean]

Yeah

[zenith bolt]

the block gives strength one

[civic ocean]

I believe it is

[spare kite]

Is do more dmg no?

[turbid hull]

Nevermind, I mistaked it for another parameter

[spare kite]

To the additive list you go

[turbid hull]

It might be case by case then, but given how most of the boons interact with rarity multipliers they're mostly additive?

[zenith bolt]

probably safe to assume additive in most cases ig

[turbid hull]

Yes

[civic ocean]

The ones that are multiplicative scaling are the word problems

Hook Knives for example, gives you a second knife, which is a straight up 2x multiplier

[civic lake]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567163323062157375/1243645646624526366/image.png?ex=66523ac3&is=6650e943&hm=1a36d38e5af010942d32c216375bfe938cb64d57c0cd22dfe51a01eb094c1463&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1214&height=683
It's kinda nuts how a level 1 heartbreaker did so much damage

[spare kite]

I love the balls

[turbid hull]

What's Hook Knives?

[zenith bolt]

lvl 1 is kinda underselling given it's heroic

[zenith bolt]

blades - your specials return to you and do 50% more damage on backstabs

[civic ocean]

Blades special where the knife comes back and deals backstab

[sour cape]

Is dmg reduction effects also additive?

[civic lake]

I think level 2 here would be like 430? or something, it scales really, really well with levels

[turbid hull]

[spare kite]

Wait what

[sour cape]

Nice value for Hephaestus

[spare kite]

Did they fr change it to additive

[sour cape]

Although actually how many damage reduction boons are out there?

[zenith bolt]

aphro heph hera will be real in 3

[sour cape]

Well there is Strength for -50% dmg reduction 👀👀

[spare kite]

Aphro + heph + god mode (after some deaths) and you only take 1 dmg

[zenith bolt]

weak (as an effect)
heph fixed gain
brave face

[turbid hull]

Let me check, to be sure

[zenith bolt]

actually brave face isnt DR in the usual sense

[sour cape]

Strength card has 50% dmg reduction

If you could activate it and stack armor, youd be unkillable 👀👀

[zenith bolt]

it just subtracts half the damage and turns it into magick damage iirc

[turbid hull]

Hmmmm, I'm not sure about whether or not it's additive. But I don't see why it would be multiplicative. I'll take a look later at the functions calculating damage to see if I can find it. for now I want to focus on keepsakes

[sour cape]

Weak + Strength + Hephaestus mana getting you to 80% DR?

[civic ocean]

excellent work as per usual

[zenith bolt]

still overshadowed by coarse grit

[spare kite]

Now that I see it
Outside of +2 skulls what hammers does mel skull even want

[zenith bolt]

maybe skulls return?

[spare kite]

Full salvo doesn't work with the bonus

[sour cape]

Too bad Coarse grit works before flat reduction 😭

[civic ocean]

after

[sour cape]

Well after*

It should work before your dmg reduction smh

[twilit timber]

Hey y'all what's a good Artemis knives build?

[spare kite]

Wait what, since when I have a sub 10

[zenith bolt]

that one hammer that quadruples your damage or something

[turbid hull]

Coarse Grit makes it so that the final HP you lose can't be over 15 right?

[sour cape]

Yea

[zenith bolt]

probably bc surface runs lol

[spare kite]

Oh prob surface, dawg I hate these stats

[sour cape]

didnt seem to work with the Poseidon boon for me

[twilit timber]

I would probably want to boost the omega special but idk what boons/gods work well with attack, I have only been doing special

[zenith bolt]

if the damage you would take is higher than 15, it's capped to 15

[civic ocean]

my udnerstanding is that Coarse Grit works like Air Quality but for dmg received.

[sour cape]

How does Coarse Grit work with Hera's Revenge boon?

[zenith bolt]

mynt probably knows the answer

[turbid hull]

Yea

[twilit timber]

You never lose more than 15 hp. Not even chronos' insta death deals more than 15

[civic ocean]

It checks "is the damage I'm about to take more than 15? and if it is it sets it to 15"

Hera's revenge boon multiplies the 15

[turbid hull]

Probably a hardcoded check towards the end of the big damage function then

[zenith bolt]

that would track w/ how it works

[turbid hull]

And before Hera's revenge boon effect

[sour cape]

Why does Coarse Grit take 6 earth, thats so much

[zenith bolt]

even flood control doesnt work after coarse grit

[zenith bolt]

bc it's the strongest infusion????

[turbid hull]

Hey, at least you only need 1 Earth for it to start appearing

[twilit timber]

Dude it's OP af lol

[turbid hull]

Unlike Air Quality which is the only Infusion that requires 2 elements before it starts spawning. Not counting Hermes'

[zenith bolt]

coarse grit activation is a run-winner lol

[turbid hull]

Hermes' Infusion

[civic ocean]

it's actually like hard to mathematically explain how good Coarse Grit is but it basically increases your HP in the Chronos fight by something like 300+ depending on your modifiers?

[twilit timber]

I made it to last 1/3rd of chronos 2nd phase on my second with course grit lol

[zenith bolt]

chaos requires 1 aether which is technically really hard to get without other elements

[sour cape]

I had to take some bad Hera perks to activate it 😭😭

[twilit timber]

I didn't even know what I was doing, mostly button mashing

[zenith bolt]

just highroll narcissus or chaos ggs

narcissus heavenly splendor my beloved

[civic ocean]

And the more damage vows you take the more HP coarse grit is saving you

[sour cape]

True, Coarse grit did carry me to Chronos win

[turbid hull]

I found a hidden, fully functionnal Hermes boon I think, but since it's not available I will not say what it is. Unsure if it will even be in the final game

[sour cape]

Yea with the double dmg fear 😭

[zenith bolt]

hermes only being +20% damage is the real crime

[knotty fulcrum]

@civic ocean couldn't get the zeus infusion 😔 unlucky tartarus as well no zeus

[zenith bolt]

i cant believe they put rush delivery into hades 2...

[turbid hull]

It's not

[civic ocean]

It's a weird case because like technically the better at the game we get IN THEORY ONLY Coarse Grit should like not be very good because "just don't get hit" but for practical use cases it's the best infusion in the game since the gods you play to get it have literally no weaknesses

[turbid hull]

Put Coarse Grit on Selene fr

[sour cape]

Yea Coarse grit useless if never get hit 😎

[zenith bolt]

hera dem is already super cracked, coarse grit is just your "win more"

[timber pawn]

Assuming 225 base hp pool and full DDs we could do math. It's 495 total hp which is 33 hits from chronos with coarse grit.

Assuming the avg chronos damage per hit is like... Idk 30, you get 990 effective hp

[zenith bolt]

clearly to balance coarse grit, it should be a water boon

[civic ocean]

It also depends what Chronos hits you with, like if you block 3 instakills with it you have effectively saved your remaining HP - 15 three times

[tired fulcrum]

2x to 4x to 50x ehp is pretty good for an infusion

[turbid hull]

It should be the final Path of Stars reward

[timber pawn]

Ya its not perfect math, that's why I pulled chronos avg dmg out of my ass lol

[zenith bolt]

how does brave face work with coarse grit

[tired fulcrum]

It dont

[turbid hull]

what's brave face

[zenith bolt]

hera legendary

[civic ocean]

I assume Brave Face works first

[zenith bolt]

when you take damage, half of it is reduced and done to your magick iirc

[turbid hull]

Brave Face would just eat your Magick for free

[sour cape]

Do you still lose mana?

[civic ocean]

yes

[zenith bolt]

RIP, antisynergy

[sour cape]

pretty bD

[tired fulcrum]

Wait does brave face mana consumption make hearthrobs

[sour cape]

Coarse Grit kinda under the radar though

[zenith bolt]

35 cost omega attack torches + total eclipse is the real 100% DR

[turbid hull]

Since it is "Whenever you use Magick" I would guess it doesn't, since Brave Face kinda consumes it from you without your consent

But unsure too someone would have to test

[zenith bolt]

https://i.imgur.com/WVs2DBd.png

[sour cape]

Why is Demeter so good this game compared to H1

She clearly has favorite grandchildren

[zenith bolt]

i wonder if they ever fixed winter harvest in this game

[vital jackal]

Ok, I just found something out. The ikarus boon that primes magic in exchange for +10 power to your attack gets applied before the zeus infusion

[turbid hull]

what's winter harvest

[vital jackal]

Which is sad but understandable

[zenith bolt]

demeter legendary - enemies below 10% hp die instantly and explode into freeze

[civic ocean]

Your casts are now the best crowd control tool in the game instead of poorly programmed portal turrets, pretty much

[turbid hull]

Doesn't Power apply extremely early in the big damage function?

[zenith bolt]

did or does have some extremely weird interaction with eris

[sour cape]

All primes apply after zeus reduction

[vital jackal]

Yeah I think so

[vital jackal]

No I mean the infusion.

[sour cape]

Oh wait Icarus doesnt?

[vital jackal]

Where you have to collect 5 air thingies and then your minimum damage is 30

[civic ocean]

Everything that amplifies damage happens before Air Quality

[vital jackal]

Yeah...

[blissful wren]

Power is base damage which gets multiplied by everything else

[zenith bolt]

like, the game considered me to have lost and won at the same time LOL

[turbid hull]

Figured

[vital jackal]

Still sad, but understandable

[turbid hull]

[sour cape]

Does Moon do anything for Apollo cast strikes?

[zenith bolt]

i assume it's because eris is supposed to go into final phase at 10%, but winter harvest just outright kills her then

[turbid hull]

wish me luck https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1243650029751767092/image.png?ex=66523ed8&is=6650ed58&hm=49df3bb3a83bbe9d7fa2c248146de96c8df7ec0b00d06b23069ae50e2b67b9fe&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1440&height=568

[zenith bolt]

so the game's like "wait a minute??? she's supposed to be alive?????"

[turbid hull]

forgot to change boon name to keepsake name

[sour cape]

Oh does it insta kill eris?

[zenith bolt]

it kills her as she goes into final phase but it caused the game to freak out

i got dialogue from eris and such that implied i had lost my run, but everything else said i won

[blissful wren]

cant wait to see what lvl 4 narsicus does

[devout jungle]

No way sadly

[turbid hull]

Isn't it, non existent

[sour cape]

that kinda stinks

[zenith bolt]

doesn't exist

[zenith bolt]

iirc silver wheel rank 4 is 3000 not 2500

[sour cape]

So only for cast detonation?

[civic ocean]

It does do something for Torrential Downpour

[sour cape]

Hmmm?

[turbid hull]

Yeah, I found that yesterday

[sour cape]

Whats it do for Torrential downpour?

[turbid hull]

It's one of the non linear stuff

[civic ocean]

I actually don't think SRC has those categories

[devout jungle]

Just 20 more damage to moon

For each repeated omega cast in an encounter

[civic ocean]

I guess winstreaks probably won't be on speedrun sites anyways because not a speedrun

[zenith bolt]

yeah

[civic ocean]

I can start keeping track of that I guess

Single wep and rotating wep winstreaks at 32+

[zenith bolt]

single wep 32 winstreak is default infinite

momus moment

[devout jungle]

Momus moment

[turbid hull]

What is changed for Engraved Pin? Health restored?

[zenith bolt]

yeah

[vital jackal]

You know, Eris seems like the type that would use hazard bomb for her rail.

[turbid hull]

so 30/45/60/75

[zenith bolt]

30/45/60/75 iirc

[civic ocean]

I assume Momus is pretty far yeah but like what happens if you get Korb'd into a bad hammer

[zenith bolt]

run artificer idk

[civic ocean]

yeah so its like interesting

[vital jackal]

So I would find it really funny if she herself took a bit of damage everytime her specials land on her

[zenith bolt]

no double moonshot momus is still playable

[civic ocean]

do you run artificer just in case you get worst case'd in Erebus

[zenith bolt]

probably

selene start is deadge otherwise

[civic ocean]

then you give up other stuff and you have to play better later, it's a cool dynamic

[turbid hull]

Luckier Tooth multipliers

[zenith bolt]

god i dont even remember for it LOL

gonna have to hunt that duo to check lmao

[turbid hull]

1.0 / 76/51 / 101/51 / 126/51

Because making it 1.0 / 1.5 / 2.0 / 2.5 was not it ig 😭

[zenith bolt]

lol

[civic ocean]

isn't base 51 going up by 25 per level?

[turbid hull]

yeah, because rounding is nice

[civic ocean]

Well it's LuckiER tooth

so it has to be slightly better than Lucky Tooth you see

[zenith bolt]

luckiest tooth when

[civic ocean]

52

[turbid hull]

When I'm in a weird rarity multiplier and my opponent is Hera Cast

[zenith bolt]

engagement ring on its way to be the weirdest boon ever

[turbid hull]

Hera's the only divinity with two boons that don't respect linearity, that I found for now

[hollow nova]

I have heroic engagement ring on and lokey

[turbid hull]

rank 4 stars white antler grants +50% critical chance?

[hollow nova]

I just got offered howling soul which launches the circle

[turbid hull]

suffer the 145 instead of expected 160 dmg

[hollow nova]

it keeps the circle there longer though which is kinda good for my build

[turbid hull]

fair

[zenith bolt]

yes i think?

[calm arch]

divine vengeance rarity/pom scaling is atrocious

[zenith bolt]

searching my mind palace for the 2s i hovered over each rank 4 keepsake

[turbid hull]

what's divine vengeance again

[calm arch]

zeus revenge boon

[zenith bolt]

lightning strikes an enemy that hits you

[civic ocean]

zeus revenge

[turbid hull]

didn't look at zeus yet

[blissful wren]

yea its already 4 max at common, anything more is superfluous, the odds of it triggering is super low

[turbid hull]

Can it be more than common?

Oh, Heroic base is up to 5 times

Hmmmm I would assume 7 max at heroic

[zenith bolt]

yeah rarity/levels increase the max number of strikes

but its always 2 to x randomly iirc

[turbid hull]

gold purse scaling isn't great for something that makes you start with money...

[tall notch]

Doing heartache trial on the speedrun save file made me realise how sluggish base dash feels lol
That swift runner change was such an improvement

[turbid hull]

wait, Crystal Figurine can activate level 4 Arcana too?

[zenith bolt]

yeah

https://i.imgur.com/nXV68ZO.png

[turbid hull]

dayum

[sour cape]

whats a level 4 Arcana?

[sour cape]

I dont use it cos I heard reduces your iframes 😂

[turbid hull]

A level 4 Arcana card

[sour cape]

Oh i thought max was 3?

[hollow nova]

back to that boon, It launched my cast onto chronos and it literally stuck with him so Aspect of pan blades were just homing onto him for free, i didn't have quite enough damage unfortunately but its the farthest i've gone

the engagement ring went hard unironically

[spice ibex]

Everybody here , tell me your favourite build

[tall notch]

You do lose the iframes but personally I think having that extra mobility and responsiveness is worth these few iframes you had during dash chargeup

[turbid hull]

Max through conventional ways is 3, but you can get 4 via other stuff such as Circe's Lapis Lazuli Insight

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1243658470738100264/image.png?ex=665246b5&is=6650f535&hm=9f5f756072a80e3ee3ed03f8a03b73aa4752f54472975e54987b6bded319dc70& coarse grit moment

easiest coarse grit of my life

[turbid hull]

grats

[spare kite]

now to wait for surface updates cuz ending at eris sounds lame

[turbid hull]

At one moment I'll try to figure out the entire damage function (once I'm done with basic data stuff)

[zenith bolt]

i think that and rank 4 circe keepsake are the only ways

[fringe lichen]

what vows do you consider the best and which the worst if aiming for 24 fear?

[turbid hull]

Yeah.

[sour cape]

Take wandering, Forsaking, 9 min timer are pretty free

[tall notch]

Best: 7 min timer, arrogance 2, forsaking, +40% speed, mobs from next biome, revenant 1
Worst: increased damage taken from first hit, turned off arcana, onion

[turbid hull]

What's the three keepsakes that don't get level 4? Narcissus, all Gods', and?

[sour cape]

And Fury is not free but good value for 6 fear

[sour cape]

I hate Revenant 😭😭

[spare kite]

echo's

[sour cape]

When you gotta chase the Fury Hippos and they wont stay dead

[turbid hull]

Thx

[tall notch]

Should've made it 125%, guaranteed 2 boons and a 25% chance at a third

[vital jackal]

do you have any blades 24 heat builds

any aspect

[fringe lichen]

is the arrogance priming permanent or for a duration?

[tall notch]

Supposed to be permanent but pomming the boon removes it atm

[civic ocean]

They should have just not said anything the % of the playerbase where the fewer iframes matter has gotta be less than 1%

[spare kite]

wait fr

[vital jackal]

The f'ing attack sheep in the zyklops fight took 2 death defiances of of me!

[sour cape]

Yea!

[vital jackal]

Ok, it was my own stupidity but still

[sour cape]

Green Sheep are no joke, lost 2 DDs to Poly last surface run 😭😭

[spare kite]

I couldn't afford/find a pom during the run lmfao

[tall notch]

And that <1% might STILL benefit from a responsive dash more than the iframes. For example on passion dash Eos, more dashing around = more dmg = better

[spare kite]

also I gotta say, revenants eos kinda smooth

[turbid hull]

does blackened fleece stack on itself?

e.g. you get multiple additive X% for each 250 damage

[tired fulcrum]

Dont think so

[turbid hull]

Understandable, would be crazy op

[tired fulcrum]

Imagine if you could and could just farm up +1k% damage with phoenix skin lol

[turbid hull]

yeah that would be broken

[tall notch]

Yeah you just dash around and collect most of them while channeling your attack. Still won't take revenant 2 for when I am chasing the timer hard because it's just too much of a slowdown

[spare kite]

still proud that I somehow got just enough mp I primed all the way to 1 lmfao

[turbid hull]

2 unused / no longer used keepsakes hmm..

[zenith bolt]

theres gonna be at least 4 more keepsakes

hadeez, dionysus, ares, athena

[vital jackal]

is rebuke 2 vow recommended for pan blades

[zenith bolt]

rebuke is barriers?

[turbid hull]

@zenith bolt echo's keepsake can't reach level 4 right?

[zenith bolt]

it cannot

[vital jackal]

yes

[zenith bolt]

yeah its free

[turbid hull]

Wonder what forces it to not be able to get its level 4

[zenith bolt]

i dunno

[turbid hull]

bc it has a heroic mult

[zenith bolt]

refer to image https://i.imgur.com/nSuDna2.png tho i have maybe a guess

maybe bc it was expired for me, it never leveled up? i'll have to check

[turbid hull]

Possible, yeah

Lmk

[analog ether]

What setup do we think is best for taking advantage of the zeus/hera duo boon?

[zenith bolt]

which one

they have 2 duos, one for zeus and one for hera

[analog ether]

Either

[zenith bolt]

zeus probably storm ring

hera most of her stuff gets at least some notable benefit

hera you might be able to use to chain to spiteful strength but not reliable

[tall notch]

If you run born gain + Hera's core boon on your main damage button, you can pom these things to oblivion for late game with the duo

Idk if that's better than simply taking a different god than Zeus but you can do it

[zenith bolt]

zeus you can probably get a really funny divine vengeance

2 to 57 times lfg

[spare kite]

#h2-victory-boasting message so how did they get the the non barren boons as heroic

[blissful wren]

That would be useless

[tall notch]

This looks like some sort of bug considering that they got purple background instead of red

[blissful wren]

it could be narsicus keepsake

[zenith bolt]

could be bug given they have purple (epic) background? or rare crop??? idfk

barren being bugged would track with how rare it is

[tall notch]

You can only narcissus one thing

[zenith bolt]

you can get transcendent as heroic with keepsake duo, but the addled is beyond me

[spare kite]

they just answered and yeah seems it is that lmao #h2-victory-boasting message

and values track

that said, 50/s mp regen that's beautiful

[turbid hull]

12.5 can't be heroic

Heroic is between 16 and 24

[tall notch]

It might just be a visual bug if the values don't check out

And it has the wrong background

[spare kite]

can narc's even hit chaos

[turbid hull]

And the 16.5 is still in range for Epic

[zenith bolt]

doubt bc chaos is weird but i wouldnt completely write it off

[tall notch]

The way these boons behave can be chaotic at times

[zenith bolt]

and then melinoë turned to the camera and said "this really was our chaos" and the crowd cheered

[spare kite]

so yeah prob f10 moment

[turbid hull]

Finally done with the keepsake tab on spreadsheet

[zenith bolt]

🔥

[turbid hull]

hopefully no typo or wrong data

unsure about Concave Stone's max rarity

[dark parcel]

soo how do i get aspects? and what is a op build? cause i've been struggling to pass the second region

[zenith bolt]

yeah its something ill have to check when i get the chance. i might take a while for that though bc im about 3 hours from home + some

[zenith bolt]

iirc beat hecate with every wep? idr

[analog osprey]

chaos's chant boon is apparently "high bonus omega damage per point of aether (purple orb element) you have"

[turbid hull]

Aspects conditions are as follow

• 5 Hecate "kills"
• Unlock all 5 weapons
• Unlock the Chaos Trials
  then defeat Hecate one more time, assuming you got everything that goes before that in the story order she will unlock the Aspects

[turbid hull]

Heroic Chant is +48% Omega Damage per Aether

[dark parcel]

thx

[analog osprey]

at common mine is at 36% omega dmg, and im running pan atm

[turbid hull]

36 at common?

[zenith bolt]

i had an epic one lemme find the image

[turbid hull]

should be 30 36 42 48

[dark parcel]

how do i get bronze and g rock?

[zenith bolt]

bronze is surface first area mining
glass rock is mourning fields mining

[analog osprey]

white text means common, right? mine is 36% per aether

[zenith bolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/362939825000677377/1243666210810499103/image.png?ex=66524dea&is=6650fc6a&hm=dafa3c75d638986e4b66f302c36bd0400ef951cabab6c6c6c922f46df0bba3c9&

rarest boon in the game has to be Barren Chant

[analog osprey]

does that count for the chaos boons prophecy if you get it from keepsake?

[zenith bolt]

i dont know

[turbid hull]

epic infusion??

[zenith bolt]

because it's chaos

[turbid hull]

oh. right

[zenith bolt]

something something infusions are common boons that look pink

(you can get them while having ordinary curse)

[turbid hull]

except for rare/epic/heroic Chant ig

[zenith bolt]

yeah

Barren Chant is the real goal i think

[turbid hull]

that's weird, data implies common should be 30 and rare 36

[zenith bolt]

the boon to end all boons. the treasure of treasures

[analog osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1243666324698173554/1243666339034300501/image.png?ex=66524e09&is=6650fc89&hm=6dd935752a4717dd0bf3e4eaf8a7f240ae25da4c021eb01f466ef6d9049f3f55&

[celest swallow]

jumping off of that, do they also count as common for Uncommon Grace? don't think i've ever tried to see lol

[analog osprey]

could be early access shenanigans, i guess

[zenith bolt]

they do not afaik

[turbid hull]

what version are you on?

[celest swallow]

nice, best of both worlds

[zenith bolt]

namely, because otherwise Proper Upbringing wouldn't work with Uncommon Grace, which would be extremely silly

[turbid hull]

I'm on 0.91027

[analog osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1243667475187499010/1243667488382910575/image.png?ex=66524f1b&is=6650fd9b&hm=7edb9d6807e2fa20d8e40e93ef61a937f3e098062b7a703354aa02580f5a81ca&

[turbid hull]

what does it say on the Chaos book of boons?

[uncut ginkgo]

Is that infusion only obtainable if you have aether already?

[zenith bolt]

yeah

aether is from duo boons and chaos' Creation boon

[spare kite]

which boon

[uncut ginkgo]

Can you get it off of the embryo

[zenith bolt]

Chant

[turbid hull]

Chant

[zenith bolt]

dunno

[analog osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1243667475187499010/1243667771028672532/image.png?ex=66524f5e&is=6650fdde&hm=535e90b1866437f50261e52c03ce49a4e14f24484753f26e073a43709a092d11&
pretty sure its early access shenanigans - should i f10?

[turbid hull]

okay so I'm not crazy 😭

[spare kite]

what are you looking at, the dmg?

[timber pawn]

God I almost finished a 32 fear moros run with heph/hera duo

[turbid hull]

yeah, they got a +36% on common

[analog osprey]

apparently white/common chant is both 30% and 36% on white text

[spare kite]

range of values maybe?

[turbid hull]

There's no range

[spare kite]

chaos moment

[turbid hull]

It's force set to 1.3 for base value, and then it uses the rarity multiplier

[analog osprey]

i feel like this is a rare chant that just isnt colored properly

[turbid hull]

By the way, I think it's the only Infusion Boon that is inside the divinity trait file

[spare kite]

If it feels like a bug just f10 then

[turbid hull]

All the other Infusion Boons are in the same file, specific to Infusions

[analog osprey]

i guess i'll f10?

[zenith bolt]

further cemeting that chaos is jank

[turbid hull]

And yeah, the condition is >= 1 Aether

[spark path]

Does anyone have any recommendations for fighting Eris? I don't really feel like I'm learning from my losses, just being punished by her damage increases the further I get in the fight.

[merry flint]

Circle the pillar

The pillar is god

[zenith bolt]

i usually stay on top of her the whole time

[turbid hull]

[spark path]

I was sticking more to that, since it lets me see what she's doing, but then she gets me when she does the arc-spread multi-shot thing. And every damage boost that hits me harder before I get out of range.

[zenith bolt]

[analog osprey]

true chaos

[zenith bolt]

i dash behind her so i dont get obliterated by shotgun, because yeah

[merry flint]

Yeah u see pillars stop all that as long you can hit her through the pillar

[spark path]

Is there a better way to deal with the arc shot than "run out of range"?

[spare kite]

Dash behind her

[spark path]

Does the pillar also stop her sprint? I thought I saw her go through it, but if not, that's probably my next strategy.

[analog osprey]

her turn speed while firing the shotgun spread is slow

[ashen lava]

It depends on your build, but the main tricks are to either abuse cover heavily (the pillars and frinos) and to always be right behind her (even if you're not a backstab build)

Also never run away

[zenith bolt]

here's an eris fight i have saved, hopefully it isnt dog for showing what i mean https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362939825000677377/1240734931014123681/very_funny_eris.mp4?ex=66522ff3&is=6650de73&hm=1c8e307fa21d2b34123ef6c0c69056535bf7dec1facc81de2448c8ed75a1286b&

[analog osprey]

the pillars can be eventually destroyed, but they block movement for everyone

[spark path]

This game really reinforced "sprint towards the damage". Polyphemus's wave attacks, anybody who sprints at you, now this...

[zenith bolt]

chronos too

[turbid hull]

Dissolution of Time costs 9,999 Zodiac Sand and 9,999 Entropy

[ashen lava]

If you're out in the open, running away will just kill you, it's way safer to run at and around her

[zenith bolt]

ignore me dropping all my lovers charges to one attack

[spark path]

Holy crap. That's a really fast fight! (Also, oh man, there's another damage boost I haven't even made it to yet.)

[spare kite]

The bombs have so much stun

[analog osprey]

50 base damage per bomb that hits you, before eris starts buffing them

[spark path]

Thank you guys! The pillar and sprinting past her should give me something better to work with next time.

[dark parcel]

how do i get shadow?

[analog osprey]

craft in cauldron, 2nd tab

[ashen lava]

good luck!

[zenith bolt]

30 ash 30 psyche 1 fate fabric in cauldron

[dark parcel]

thx

[tall notch]

https://youtu.be/pkWzoDTFBOQ?si=8Cr2YJnkD8Arfdf6&t=323 this is also a decent showcase of how to fight Eris even though the build is kinda trash @spark path

[analog osprey]

apparently it updated itself when i got more aether
||https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1243667475187499010/1243671491929837669/image.png?ex=665252d5&is=66510155&hm=fd1bd668d07910bb9db10622514a74dfe035ccc8848aa773ba0c520258c80691&||

[zenith bolt]

it was blue all along!

[analog osprey]

anyway pan's about to murder people

[spark path]

Huh. In both of the fight videos she never summons reinforcements. Is that because you're staying so close or because you're blowing through the phases so quickly?

[zenith bolt]

it's RNG

[turbid hull]

Well atleast that's one thing cleared

[analog osprey]

probably going too fast for her to spawn?

[zenith bolt]

sometimes she does it immediately sometimes she never does it

[tall notch]

My trial fight really isn't fast, it's just rng of her not using the attack

[zenith bolt]

sometimes her flying up is bomb dropping and not summons

she does what she wants (girlboss for that fr fr)

[timber pawn]

@tall notch i almost got my moros 32 done but a tempus blocked the insta kill safe spot and stole a fresh dd. I'm so sad. It was going to be a heph/hera duo win too

[tall notch]

What's a tempus? The hourglass?

[timber pawn]

Ya the hourglass

[tall notch]

That's a certified Chronos classic

[timber pawn]

The strat works though, I think. I'm gonna try it again

[turbid hull]

Gonna log off for today. See you tomorrow 🙂 and thanks for the chat and all, it's really enjoyable to be here

[tall notch]

Does Moros do anything that Eos can't, though?

[timber pawn]

No but it exists so I need to do 32 with it lol

[tall notch]

Fair enough

[timber pawn]

I have moros, Artemis, circe, mel axe, mel daggers, mel torch, mel staff left

[tall notch]

PINK AURA?

[timber pawn]

So most of the most annoying ones. Mel torch will be comfy

Idk what to do for the mel axe/daggers, mel staff is gonna be some sort of omega thing I guess

[civic ocean]

looking at all my fear setups and damn 3 out of 5 run blood III

what a psycho this East guy is

[timber pawn]

Is blood 3 full damage?

[civic ocean]

ya

[timber pawn]

Wew

[zenith bolt]

mel axe is just axe spin without the thanatos boost ig

[tall notch]

For daggers I think you could do some kind of melee backstab build

[timber pawn]

That's probably what Iwas leabing

[tall notch]

Maybe Pos start and play it manaless

[zenith bolt]

i usually run blood III on 32 😶

[timber pawn]

Could also do heart throb and pretend it's artemis

[zenith bolt]

i think for momus i even had suffering I as well

[tall notch]

Blood is one of the first things I'll max once I am out of easy fear.

[timber pawn]

I always do blood 2 lol

[zenith bolt]

blood 3 suffering 2. just dont get hit, it's that easy

[civic ocean]

I think for blades im gonna do blood 2 suffering 2 scars 3 and just go trip earths

[zenith bolt]

insaneposting

[civic ocean]

turn all the defensive stuff down and just get hit less

rush coarse grit and trusty shield

[tall notch]

East are you okay

[civic ocean]

better than okay I think I found a fun new way to play

keep the rotation fresh

[tall notch]

Go live then I wanna see it

[civic ocean]

I am in 2 hrs or so

[tall notch]

❤️

[civic ocean]

rn the lineup is

Air Fryer Mel Staff
Karaoke Don't Get Hit Pan Blades
Pink Aura Torches
Double Duo Dunk Charon Axe
Air Fryer Pers Skull

[brazen ore]

Wait what's ur stream east, I do wanna watch this pink aura I've heard tell about

[civic ocean]

east_25 on twitch, starting in 1 hr 30

[brazen ore]

🫡

[civic ocean]

I died last time on staff so its blades start

[brazen ore]

you will be my apartment cleaning background noise. it is an honored position

[civic ocean]

I'll try to talk more its hard to talk and play at the same time when it gets intense

[brazen ore]

nah you're good fam i watch streams on a tablet usually and look as i move around. I kind of have to iPad kid myself or the adhd kicks in and I get nothing done

[dark parcel]

what are the incantations that i sometimes get?

like do they actually do something or not?

[brazen ore]

what do you mean the incantations?

[dark parcel]

i got to the surface

and i talked to moros and after that i got a sort of notification saying that i got a new incantation

its like a green paper roll

[brazen ore]

oh. Check the cauldron

[dark parcel]

thx

[hollow jacinth]

so what exactly counts as "strikes" for the aspect of Artemis? is it only your specials and attacks?

[blissful wren]

yea, and omegas count too

[vital jackal]

Is the zeus legendary worth it, if the only fight you have left is the chronos fight?

[civic ocean]

Not really

[vital jackal]

Ok thanks

[hollow jacinth]

Makes sense even though it's a bit unfortunate. Thought I could be funny with Heph's smithy sprint but I see why they'd only have it trigger on your standard attacks lol

[civic ocean]

Can someone better at math correct me if I'm wrong here:

Death is a 5% chance to crit (3x) damage - does this mean, more or less, that Death is a 1.15x average damage increase to Omega moves?

[shadow marsh]

It's a 1.1x increase, because when you crit you're only doing 200% more damage, not 300% more

gotta factor in the damage you'd have done without the crit

[civic ocean]

Okay

That seems kinda bad actually

[shadow marsh]

yeah compare it to the omega cast damage and it's kinda laughable

Big number is big number though

[blissful wren]

east, whats the AQ scorch interaction with hestia legendary

[shadow marsh]

It doesn't improve the damage iirc

[civic ocean]

bad afaik hestia's legendary makes the scorch deal more damage in fewer ticks

[blissful wren]

ok gotcha

[shadow marsh]

Lion fang works with all sources of damage including smithy sprint

bring it into chronos and enjoy your extra 100 damage per clang

[pale vortex]

Any tip to force somehow hestia/poseidon build? Or just to be lucky??

[blissful wren]

vow of forsaking and take their keepsakes

[vital jackal]

You can take a second god's keepsake in the second region

[pale vortex]

I see so better start with poseidon special and then hestia at cast or attack I guess and pray for slippy slope

[blissful wren]

Its also common to run the 4 arcana cards in the bottom left corner for rerolls

[quiet axle]

Starting to figure out the torches. Just downed Chronos on 24 Fear. It's just a slow ramping weapon. My entire goal for the first area was to get Demeter cast. 2 area: hammer & chain lightning. 3rd area: +special +attack boons & some sort of sprint buff. Went from barely eeking out a win early on to blowing up everything. Just a very slow power build-up.

[steel sequoia]

alright, feeling good till now lmao https://postimg.cc/NKMhnbgp

im awful at skulls

[pale vortex]

Oh OK I could try

[broken pier]

Alright, I like medea, got it to lvl 3 and did a aphro/poseidon run with born gain and literally just omega specialed Eris into oblivion lol

[tall notch]

AQ is the real Hestia legendary

[tiny kernel]

Just died on phase 2 of ||Chronos|| because I didn't realize how the first attack works 🙃

I feel some dev chuckling rn

[calm ibex]

sidelong crash or twisting crash better on skull?

[civic ocean]

how good are you at remembering what side it is

[calm ibex]

im a braindead omega special spammer on skull

[civic ocean]

okay without lloking it up what side does the special come out

[broken pier]

[0][0][0][0][0]
[0][0][=][=][=]
[0][0][0][=][=]
[0][0][=][=][=]
[0][0][=][0][=]

Is this the best layout for the Arcana - I'm only using 29/30

[civic ocean]

on sidelong

[calm ibex]

which does deal more dmg in general?

[civic ocean]

Depends on where the target is standing but usually twisting crash

[calm ibex]

i see thank you

[tall notch]

Arcana layouts are weapon-dependent

And build-dependent, for example antler setups want different arcanas

[broken pier]

I mainly use = than axe, pan daggers, and now medea skulls

[civic ocean]

so then you'll probably want 3 different loadouts

[broken pier]

hmm

[civic ocean]

think about what you're trying to do with each aspect and then line up your cards keepsakes and boons so they support that

[broken pier]

only thing I can think is swapping furies and swift runner for unseen on than axe for more spins, or strength if going for high life builds

I did just finish eris off on f16 with 420 life lol

strength would've been really solid

[brittle prairie]

#h2-feedback message
Is this a reasonable take on a potential selene change?

[tall notch]

This isn't just a potential Selene change but a good minor reward change in general

There's so many of these rooms and they felt worse compared to Hades 1. Couldn't exactly tell why but the lack of these extra tiny rewards checks out

[brittle prairie]

Especially wothout that Hades 1 mirror effect that made ot 20% more likely for major rewards to replace minor rewards not being present

[civic ocean]

minor finds should be giving you stuff anyways for sure

[brazen ore]

you stop needing the minor rewards relatively quickly and unlike in 1 theres no barter system to let you trade up with them. like, i have stupid quantities of ashes, and i don't need it for anything

[civic ocean]

We are probably missing the lategame resource loop tbf

[tall notch]

Guys I found new Asphodel tech! The progress still fills up when you slow down time but the enemies are nowhere nearly as dangerous

[brazen ore]

yeah true, i do keep forgetting that lategame stuff obviously hasnt been implemented

[civic ocean]

and also like many of us are probably at the point where there is no longer need for resources, like I am 10 hrs behind my time in Hades 1 roughly and I got the true ending by then

[brazen ore]

i still haven't got the 30 grasp but yeah

[calm ibex]

which aspects are the best for each weapon?

[civic ocean]

okay time to go die some more, gotta play no mic for the first hr though

[lament kestrel]

yeah there at least needs to be something to do with all the grasp and ash after you've maxed out arcanas

[brittle prairie]

If you take frinos it really doesnt take long at all

[steel sequoia]

i dont think 200 area dmg (hard to charge) would be worth to late game tho

[brazen ore]

that's true but i like kitty

not even bc she does anything, frog is way better for the way i play in every regard, but i like having a cat friend

[steel sequoia]

i dont like selene dmg paths

[brazen ore]

i was so effing disappointed by lunar ray that i never took it again ever after i tried it once and found it had a secret second line of text reading 'get hit by everything in the area because you can't move'

[tall notch]

Staff - Momus
Daggers - Tied between Artemis and Pan
Torches - Eos
Axe - Charon
Skull - Medea

[calm ibex]

ty

[strange kite]

i believe in pan

[steel sequoia]

i need to learn how to play medea, is so weird for me

its like 1 attack 1 special right?

[brazen ore]

you can load up all 3 attacks and then special to make them hit

i really didn't like it because that's kind of the only thing you can do with it asides from regular special, and i am cool with one-trick ponies but i like one-trick ponies that only make me press one button to do their one trick, as opposed to one-trick ponies where i have to sequence it. it is the strongest tho

[steel sequoia]

i didnt liked skulls, tho i need to finish the fears from it

[zenith bolt]

yeah pretty much

this works better than loading them all bc it's less committal than loading them all

[broken pier]

I really like the one skull tackle setup but one of the hammers primes all three at once and w poseidon strike it was super effective lol

[brazen ore]

without poseidon boons i am nothing

[zenith bolt]

why even live if no haha yes

[tall notch]

@civic ocean why can't I chat for the next 30 minutes 😭

[civic ocean]

?

[tall notch]

Your stream won't let me chat until I'm following for half an hour

[civic ocean]

try now

[steel sequoia]

haha, yes

[night gazelle]

Can trial rooms still not produce Duos at all?

[zenith bolt]

i havent seen one

[spare kite]

Gonna go with no, H1 trials also blocked duos