h2-discussion

[slim pike]

Besides, I think the main part of it is that by the time you're turning on Rivals 2, you're already familiar with Eris as a concept

[buoyant matrix]

without frenzy yes

[slim pike]

so facing off her unrivalled version for the first time isn't the skill check that fighting her normal form is for the first time

[copper bison]

this validates my opinion about Lucifer in the first game because I literally fight it instead of use it and it still feels worse than Eris

[copper bison]

I’m on max Frenzy

[buoyant matrix]

she may not be too punishing at mid fear then?

she's a challenge due to how much time she wastes and the very small damage windows you get

[copper bison]

yeah in fairness I was just doing testing for Morrigan

[marsh karma]

You know, it's sort of a forbidden thing in rougelikes but i kind of wish there was some kind of endless mode to test the limit of what you can do with your builds, somewhat like Balatro's endless mode

[elfin heron]

why is there a notepad icon above some doors?

[slim pike]

Sort of dark grey with a red wreath either side and it's a shop icon?

Means there's a contract available in the shop if you want to go challenge the champion of Elysium

[elfin heron]

nah, it was a prophecy icon apparently

brown note

[torn wind]

Yeah it’s one of the fun things about Risk of Rain but doesn’t fit in with a game like this unfortunately

The game isn’t designed around infinitely scalable mechanics

[stuck minnow]

Medea is such a queen

"She would turn mortals into livestock; I would turn them dead."

Yaaas, slay Queen!
Literally in this case

[shell lake]

Can i have a weapon recommendation? I used the axe the whole game and didn’t swap once, i wanna try smth new in the post game

[slim pike]

She only does that when she's feeling nice

[slim pike]

Literally anything?

[shell lake]

But i mean what do people enjoy so i can try it out first

[stuck minnow]

Just use whatever

Nobody is going to care what you use

Unless it's Mel Axe for some reason....

[tranquil wren]

aspect of anubis

[raw kraken]

Medea or Persephone

[plain relic]

Hello I have questions but they are 100% spoilers and dont want to spoil. Can I dm someone a question rq whos cleared everything including epilogue?

Ah nvm Google

[wide wigeon]

eris really testing my patience with trying to win on fresh file

[stark lance]

Eris honestly feels like she's one of the easiest bosses until you accidentally get a knockback boon and cannot clobber her like usual

[wide wigeon]

oh im not talking about her boss fight

[dull tendon]

"Blessing" of Eris bro

[stark lance]

Oh yeah, that thing. Does it have any requirements to show up even? I got a friend into Hades 2 and she hasn't showed up more than once in around 15 runs

[open nimbus]

If you leave each boss at 30% health or less you can avoid the curse

[wide wigeon]

its a pain deliberately getting hit

[dull tendon]

Must be a fresh file I think

[wide wigeon]

you either overshoot by a lot or undershoot by like 1 and eris is there

especially in oceanus cause if you beat scylla without going to 30% hp you can hit them steam things on the sides but they get destroyed mid fight and theres eris oh good

[stark lance]

It is a fresh file

Does she not show up just because she gets clobbered in every boss because she runs straight at bosses

[dull tendon]

Yeah

[stark lance]

Weird

[wide wigeon]

eris shows up first 10 nights

im js tryna beat gramps fresh file cause im basically done with everything on my main save

i could go for higher fear but i feel 32 is enough im done

[stuck minnow]

Me when Eris hits me for 55

She is SO getting the Evil Eye

How much Damage does that shotgun normally do?
Because I had both Weak and Strength (level 2) in effect

Probably like 100 or smth ridiculous

Last time I fought her I absolutely bowled her over so she never got a chance to even use it

[open nimbus]

can try speed running after fresh file

theres even a category for speed running fresh file ha

[wide wigeon]

ofc there is idk if i can tho my best time on my main save is like 12mins I think

yes 11.43 uw and exactly 17mins summit

what's the wr for both im gonna check

its 3.54 and 5.11

[cunning laurel]

so you're pretty close

[open nimbus]

the 3.54 time had like, impeccable rng on top of execution... even in the speedcord, none of us are actively trying to break sub 4. If you have a favorite aspect, maybe look at the times for those and see if you want to try and get on the leaderboard

i only submit runs for staff myself

[buoyant matrix]

I'd say sub 6 underworld and sub 7:30 surface are good goals to have for speedrunning

you need serious grinding to go lower than that

[open nimbus]

yep those are really good goalposts

[limpid oar]

My only speedrunning goal is taking less overtime damage than my life total allows for

[wide wigeon]

which aspect yuo main

also im guessing all the speedruns do it with time vow and frenzy?

[cunning laurel]

time doesnt do anything but underworld also uses shadow to make one miniboss faster

[open nimbus]

for underworld, frenzy 2 and shadow for one specific miniboss so you only have to kill the miniboss and not the trees scattered around the room. Time does nothing lol I just keep it off and use the in game timer.

[buoyant matrix]

frenzy is necessary for competitive times because it makes enemies spawn faster and boss invulnerability phases last less

[open nimbus]

I alternate between mel staff and circe. currently i have the wr for circe surface but there's room for improvement so i still try to beat my own record

[wide wigeon]

which miniboss

[wide wigeon]

damn you goated fr can I see the footage

[bitter stirrup]

I believe it's the Shadow Spiller

Replaces the tree thingies with Wailers that just disappear when you kill the miniboss

[elfin heron]

you have to be below 50% hp AFTER the fountain, and then she won't show up

[wide wigeon]

yeah I know lmao

[elfin heron]

just watched a first night clear run, I think this Eris mechanic is dumb as hell, why did they add this

[wide wigeon]

oh wait i thought they disappear when you kill the middle one they dont?

[cunning laurel]

not the normal one no you have to go kill them

[open nimbus]

this one is still pending on src https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmunZZoFZTA

[bitter stirrup]

I wonder what the equivalent fear level difficulty is for fresh file

I've never tried it but it sounds like it'd be harder than 32f at least

[elfin heron]

0 arcana means your damage will be ass so you'll need to rely on DOTs and such

[open nimbus]

its harder but its not like, insanely hard. no arcana, a smaller pool of gods, minimum health, no familiar

[copper bison]

was going for a new highest fear (45 Morrigan) and choked on second phase Chronos w no Rivals LOOOOOOOOL!

[open nimbus]

it becomes the beach ball run

[limpid oar]

I wanna say +/- 40f

[bitter stirrup]

Guess I'll try it, burnt out from 50f surface attempts lol

[limpid oar]

I almost did it but frenzy 0 gramps got me, these attacks feel delayed and i CBA learning the timings

[bitter stirrup]

Luckily I just played some frenzy 0 runs to get Zag keepsake so maybe that's gonna be an advanage lol

[buoyant matrix]

the three good builds to win are scalding vapor, beach ball and omega attack

[elfin heron]

this guy used scorch ring, but the run is 29 min, so not speedrunning worthy probably https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HdedU-fluY

[old veldt]

whats scalding vapor again

[dire sand]

Tbf speedrun builds are not necessarily the only good builds

They're just the ones with the best potential in terms of speed

[buoyant matrix]

i mean if you're just trying to win you can play safe and patient yeah

[dire sand]

Like some other build might be more consistent

[open nimbus]

i wouldnt recommend jumping into speed running fresh file right away lol

[dire sand]

What you dont see with speedruns is the amount of failed attempts :P

[buoyant matrix]

poseidon hestia duo, removes froth and applies steam which deals big damage

[limpid oar]

Oattack spam is a real build? Do you just take Apollo attack first and go from there?

[buoyant matrix]

lucid gain start actually

[open nimbus]

o attack spam on apollo is... exceptional

[buoyant matrix]

i had one or two oattack spam runs reach chronos throughout my hitless grind so yeah it's good

[wide wigeon]

insane

[wide wigeon]

fr beach ball so goated

[torn wind]

Beach ball is that duo that you think is goofy as hell until you realize it's a massive AOE with 300 base damage and that's actually stupid strong

[fathom lake]

Wow i have installed mods and they are so cool ngl

Wrath of Olympus [Mod] its so cool

THeres one that adds extra dash boons ill try it with supay

[craggy totem]

They added it to discourage players from progressing too quickly to experience the story in the intended way.

As you can see it's a soft limit rather than a hard stop, which still permits extremely skilled or determined players to do it if they really want.

[torn wind]

First 50 fear run I decided to go for broke and do rivals 4

No DD uses on scylla or cerb

Really hoping I get Deep Dissent for chronos from Hades

Nope, unlucky

Yeah no rivals chronos demolished me not doing that

[median plinth]

rivals chronos is a significant step up

[jolly hound]

It’s worth doing lower fear with rivals 4 to learn the fight

[torn wind]

Or setting up a practice save

But yeah

[jolly hound]

I’m a console pleb, I wish I could do that

[tacit temple]

welp

Maxed out Moros and just met him in... wherever the hell this is

and idk what to choose

Moros is cool and all but

[craggy totem]

Game doesn't lock you to one romance ftr

[torn wind]

It literally doesn't affect anything if you pick either option

[tacit temple]

oh I know

just a me thing

[torn wind]

It's just a bit of dialogue, if you don't like him then don't do it

[tacit temple]

cause I really like the dynamic Icarus and Melinoe have

[torn wind]

I doesn't change a single other character's interactions

Aside from aphrodite saying "I see you got it on with [insert character]"

[craggy totem]

Even if you, the player, prefer monogamy, Melinoe the character canonically already thinks monogamy is a quaint human notion anyway, fwiw

[torn wind]

Greek and stuff

[tacit temple]

hmm

yeah I just kinda think of it as cheating on Icarus even though theres no in game consequence

ah screw it

[torn wind]

This ain't cyberpunk or mass effect your decisions don't matter

[tacit temple]

I said it like 3 times that im aware of that

[torn wind]

Then why you asking us is all I'm joking about

[tacit temple]

cause I wanted to talk about it?

like I said its a me thing

I know theres no in game consequence

but to me personally id feel kinda iffy about it

[jolly hound]

I get it, I wish I didn’t pork Eris

[torn wind]

Pathetic

[jolly hound]

It is kinda funny to get the nyx kids hat trick then Chrolex away a chaos in front of her tho

[tacit temple]

whatever you say bud

[limpid oar]

I need to actually max out the Icarus relationship, he's the only one I'm missing from maxxing out every keepsake giver

[torn wind]

I was saying towards lando not you

[cunning laurel]

icarus doesnt deserve it

[tacit temple]

he's so picky for when he shows up

[torn wind]

I finally got every bond at about 155 runs in

[limpid oar]

I also rarely play surface so I don't exactly get to visit him very often

[torn wind]

And got made fun of by dora for buying figurines

[tacit temple]

thats what im saying!

[torn wind]

Hey he just asks to be hugged

[tacit temple]

I hate surface runs

idk why

[torn wind]

(ignore the noises)

[tacit temple]

I just prefer underworld

[cunning laurel]

yea i havent surfaced in 400 nights

[tacit temple]

YEESH

[torn wind]

Surface is inherently designed to be harder and Thessaly is easily the worst area in the game

[tranquil wren]

olympus is a lot harder imo

at least at frenzy2

[torn wind]

Harder but less BS

Thessaly is just ass from how few rewards there are and how cramped it is

Oceanus is cramped but at least feels kinda fair

And gives proper rewards

But thessaly has to be kinda ass because of how good ephyra is

[stark lance]

Things being cramped is an upside honestly if you can shred armor

[torn wind]

'if' being the main word

But yeah

[stark lance]

Me holding right click with any of the axes and oblooterating the entire map

[torn wind]

Just the main region where I regularly run into absolute BS like giant immune anchors that attack half the damn ship at once and then all the worm guys go hide behind him

[open nimbus]

thessaly is what makes or breaks a speed run... charybdis showing up is usually a GG to your PB

[stark lance]

Petition to hit Charybdis with a metal pipe

[torn wind]

Signed immediately

[open nimbus]

lol even if you did, you'd need a few more to hit the rest of the tentacles

[stark lance]

Petition to add an Aspect of Construction Worker where it's just a big metal pipe that does extra Omega Special damage

[open nimbus]

omega special? nahhhh

[torn wind]

Ah yes, the strongest wielder of the nocturnal arms, Joe the plumber

[stark lance]

Boooob the Builder, can we kill the squid

[torn wind]

She honestly isn't even a hard boss, just a time sink

[stark lance]

Except that one attack that turns the entire screen into pink projectiles

[torn wind]

Literally can just be avoided by running from one side of the screen to the other slightly faster than the projectiles

They're too slow to catch you

As long as you don't sprint full speed and stay just out of range they'll never hit you

[stark lance]

The problem is having the brain power to go to one corner before the attack starts after the snooze fest of a fight

[torn wind]

It's literally just a time waste and can't even hit you if you do it right

[torn wind]

It happens every half-way

It's the same every time. Moment you hit half health just run to the corner and wait

[stark lance]

Oh no the fight doesn't bother me

I just find it boring af

[torn wind]

I know just you said it takes brain power to avoid an attack that takes very little effort to avoid and isn't even random

[stark lance]

When something is boring in a game as fast paced as Hades you tend to get brain lag

[torn wind]

Valid

And of course in the run right after this conversation I get charybdis

Lost a whole minute to that

[stuck minnow]

Me when Mother of All Storms

[torn wind]

Absolutely just choked a great run

[silk needle]

can we delete aspect of persephone cause it's the worst shi i've played so far

[torn wind]

Lol if that's the worst you've played then you clearly haven't used selene coat or artemis/pan blades

Persephone skull is just a bit lower damage mel skull with a funky omega special you'll likely not even use

[silk needle]

artemis blades are so good i dont know what u talkin about

[jolly hound]

Blades just need trick knives and you’re good

[torn wind]

Artemis blades I regularly see called like bottom 5

Since without the crit bonus active you're just playing base blades

Though the parry is sometimes nice to have

Pan just straight doesn't function half the time though

[silk needle]

this skull is just so bad, they should've buffed it

[torn wind]

As if this game hasn't gone through 2 years of early access patches to get where we are

1.0 was the balance patch

Nothing else from here

[solid epoch]

Doesn't mean all the balancing choices made were good lol

[torn wind]

Yeah but I'd be VERY far from putting persephone skull at the bottom

Hel makes me wanna vomit and shiva removes the main strengths of the weapon and replaces them with an ability you'll likely never want to use

[elfin heron]

is Zeus best suited for torches, or worth trying to build on staff too?

[torn wind]

Zeus on torch special is goated

[craggy totem]

Zeus is worth everywhere, just not necessarily as the main dish

[solid epoch]

Personally I love Shiva
|| Destruction has made me do insane amounts of damage and shred through vor 3 ||

[elfin heron]

do I make a Hestia run then, who does she combo with the best?

[torn wind]

But have you used shiva on wards 2?

It absolutely suffers on wards

[craggy totem]

Coat likes Hestia :P

But she can combo just fine with Zeus

[torn wind]

Yeah coat loves poseidon and hestia

And zeus

Lots of multi-hits

[elfin heron]

think I'lll stick with staff for now, I know blasts are OP, so trying to brainstorm something else

[solid epoch]

Not yet no
|| I still can make good use of the blocking from my experience ||
Also remember to be sensitive to new players and use spoilers when necessary please

[torn wind]

Blasts aren't OP, just easy to use. They suffer on wards

[craggy totem]

Only ending and epilogue spoilers are required to be tagged in this channel

[solid epoch]

Ohhhh ok 👍

[craggy totem]

You may be looking for #h2-for-new-players

[torn wind]

Yeah just major story spoilers

[solid epoch]

That's what I had been thinking of lol

[torn wind]

It's impossible to avoid seeing typhon or hidden aspects

But story stuff is more unlikely to be seen on accident

[solid epoch]

I discovered Shiva without any knowledge it existed lol

[elfin heron]

blasts are great because you can focus on movement/dodging while your big damage is ticking anyway, I want to try something a bit more involved, maybe with mirrored thrasher idk

or wicked thrasher

[torn wind]

Again though, once you turn on wards they suffer. A LOT

[craggy totem]

You could just never turn on wards :P nbd

[torn wind]

They are still super fun for low to mid fear before you add wards

[elfin heron]

not touching the board for now, I don't think I need it for the story (unless?)

[torn wind]

Well yeah sure if I wanna reroll my fate a million times

It's needed for nightmare is all

And 100% completion

[craggy totem]

Wards specifically is not required

[elfin heron]

how does that steam build work again, is it fun on the staff?

[torn wind]

You can finish the story without ever touching it

Steam is ehhhhh

[craggy totem]

You can also get Nightmare and 32F without ever touching Wards

[torn wind]

It's fine

Yeah I know I just am saying why I don't consider it OP

Since it's countered by some stuff

It's still very good though and I love blast builds

I literally did a "oops all blast" build earlier

[elfin heron]

okay assuming I want to use staff's base attacks, what's a fun build where you just weave around enemies and go stab stab stab

[torn wind]

#h2-victory-boasting message

🔨 🔨 🔨 🔨 🔨

[elfin heron]

Heph again??

[torn wind]

Ideally you do beam dash stab beam dash stab

[torn wind]

It's the old one

[craggy totem]

Hera special Zeus attack and uhhhhhh take your pick on cast tbh

[torn wind]

But dual moonshot is really good as a daedalus for mel staff

[elfin heron]

I feel like nova strike could be good for added range, but I'm not sure about its damage

[elfin heron]

dual moonshot is for specials, not attacks

[torn wind]

Mel staff needs a % damage on special and a flat damage like blitz on attack

[torn wind]

Yes and mel staff is all about specials

+40 base power only on specials

If you're building into attack on mel staff you're wasting the aspect

[elfin heron]

attacks are much faster, you can proc various effects much more often

[torn wind]

If you use specials right they can too

[elfin heron]

yeah I just have this aspect + moros, soooo

[torn wind]

Have you learned to dash cancel the special?

[elfin heron]

no

[torn wind]

Then time to learn cause I basically never used specials on staff until I learned

And moment I did I shredded stuff

[craggy totem]

I mean, I never learned and it still shreds

[elfin heron]

you just dash after using a special?

[torn wind]

Yep that's it, so you don't get locked in the animation

You can add an attack to the dash for extra damage

[elfin heron]

I kinda like how the attacks go stabby stab, is there an aspect focusing on this

[craggy totem]

ABDSUYPS (always be dash striking unless you're playing Shiva)

[torn wind]

Any of them if you feel like it

None of them buff normal attacks

Best would be circe though if you're going an attack build

[elfin heron]

is it the one where you make your familiar attack together

[torn wind]

Since it's the only one that would still benefit you while doing normal attacks

[torn wind]

Yeah and you get a double cast

Second or third best aspect in the game

[craggy totem]

Circe doesn't make your familiar attack on command

What it does is create a second cast and a damaging line that connects you and the familiar

Your familiar's own behavior/moveset remains unchanged

[elfin heron]

moros seems pretty bad, basically you leave a drone that repeats the last omega 2x, but it's canceled if you use an omega again yourself

[craggy totem]

That's Eos

[torn wind]

Moros and Eos are both great

[craggy totem]

Moros makes your oattacks explode when they hit your special, different aspect

[torn wind]

And you can just stop attacking if you don't want to shoot another Eos daybreaker

[elfin heron]

well I have this one + aspect of mel

it's a snake thingy that repeats your omega 2x, pretty slow too

[craggy totem]

OH

[torn wind]

It also copies normal specials

[craggy totem]

That's not Moros, that's Momus

[elfin heron]

OH

[torn wind]

Momus staff

Moros is a torch aspect

Momus is mid at best

Moros is really good

[craggy totem]

You can have multiple omega "drones" up on Momus btw

Just not multiple of the same kind

[torn wind]

Yeah one for each omega

[elfin heron]

yeah Momus seems bad because the boss would be on the other side of the continent when the snake thingy procs

maybe good for low magic builds

[craggy totem]

The fire rate gets faster as you level it up

[torn wind]

Fully upgrade it

It sucks at low level

higher level is night and day difference

[craggy totem]

It's still considered weaker than the other staves at max, but it's quite playable once you get that fire rate maxed

[elfin heron]

torches with aspect of mel seem cracked though, 10% crit rate just like that, for free

[torn wind]

Momus is competent just requires good magick econ

[torn wind]

ehhh, 20% damage buff is fine

Moros and Eos dumpster mel by comparison though

Mel torches is still good though

[elfin heron]

those need some end game materials though

[torn wind]

"end game"

[elfin heron]

mel rank v was basically free, so I unlocked it

[torn wind]

They're just stuff you collect by doing a normal run

[elfin heron]

maybe it's something from the last surface biome then, haven't explored that one fully yet

[jolly hound]

Momus loves heph legendary too, and it applies to o casting too pro tip

[elfin heron]

fine, so is nova strike on staff attacks worth trying, or is it aggressively subpar?

assuming origination and everything

[torn wind]

Yeah a .5s timer decrease is huge

[craggy totem]

It's subpar compared to some of the even better options but it's, like, fine

[torn wind]

It works

[elfin heron]

the hitbox is really forgiving, I feel like nova could be fun, it's so wide

[torn wind]

It's decent damage and all but you'd really want hera or something instead

I'd honestly even take Ares over it

[elfin heron]

is Hera's hitch actually good? I feel like it's only worth on mobs and pointless against bosses?

[torn wind]

Top 2 curses in the game

[elfin heron]

don't have Ares yet

dunno how to unlock him

[torn wind]

Hitch is up there with blitz for best curses

[torn wind]

Complete some more runs

[elfin heron]

but it just deals damage to other enemies, what if you're fighting a solo target

[torn wind]

I think you need to clear surface to unlock him

[torn wind]

It's still a curse either way

[elfin heron]

btw I met Athena on the surface, will she spawn in the underworld now, or do I need to gift her as well

[torn wind]

Hera's damage buff is decently high and you get a curse on top of that

[torn wind]

She only spawns in mount olympus unless you use the keepsake

[elfin heron]

lame

[torn wind]

And she can't spawn twice if you use it during or before olympus

You can use the keepsake anywhere though, underworld or surface

And can use it after olympus if she didn't appear

[craggy totem]

Even bosses have adds, and it also trivializes the Scylla fight. (I'm not mentioning the other one it helps with, but there's at least one other.)

[elfin heron]

you can only ever meet her once per run??

[craggy totem]

She doesn't give core boons.

[torn wind]

That's the point, she's like every other random encounter

[elfin heron]

what doesn't, just rush the drummer, nuke her with all your might, then the fight is a joke

[craggy totem]

Hitch does it better. Matters for if you're trying to go fast!

[elfin heron]

wdym random encounter, thought she was a regular boon giver like other gods?

[torn wind]

She can only appear once

[craggy totem]

This is what I mean by "she doesn't give core boons"

[torn wind]

Doesn't sound normal

She's the same as every other special character that gives you a reward the one time you see them

[craggy totem]

She does not give you Strike, Flourish, Ring, Rush, or Gain boons. You'll notice she appeared in-person, not through a boon interactable

[torn wind]

Like artemis or dionysus

[crude dragon]

When you're fighting a solo enemy, it's still the third-highest damage percentage in the game

[elfin heron]

ahh, like Artemis

[craggy totem]

And if you're talking level 1 common-rarity boons, she's actually the second-highest damage buff

[elfin heron]

haven't met that guy either

[crude dragon]

Please look forward to it

[torn wind]

It's still a stronger attack than most other gods while also having a great curse

He's hilarious the first time you meet him

[elfin heron]

honestly, I thought Hitch was bad because it just deals damage to other hitch inflicted enemies, and bosses are more important than killing trash mobs faster

[torn wind]

You say that...

[crude dragon]

Well, trash mobs are the vast majority of what you'll be killing throughout the course of a run

[torn wind]

Except when 70% of your run is spent fighting mobs you'll want to do that as fast as possible

If bosses are the majority of your run then you're killing them very slowly

[crude dragon]

And also, despite that high percentage, inflicts a curse for Origination out of the box

[elfin heron]

yeah and then you get to Chronos phase 2 and lose most of your hp there because you don't kill him fast enough and his bubbles are BS and make you take unavoidable damage

[torn wind]

I hate to say this but literal skill issue

Everything is avoidable

[elfin heron]

fine, he spawns the bubbles, if you dash into one you're frozen, yet he keeps attacking, what are you meant to do?

there's almost no space between the bubbles

[torn wind]

Walk slowly

[crude dragon]

Funny you should mention phase 2 Chronos, because Hitch is something of a godssend there to deal with those damned healing adds

[torn wind]

You either have to kill all the hourglasses or outdamage them

I usually go for the latter

Except rivals that's a no-go there

[crude dragon]

(Still not what Escalier was referring to, though)

[torn wind]

Rivals chronos you basically just can't out-damage them unless you got a god build

[craggy totem]

Like I said, you learn the bubble spacing

[elfin heron]

regular Chronos you can just omega attack the hourglasses, and if you have vampirism that will actually heal you a fair amount

[crude dragon]

Only the staff has that specific hammer

[torn wind]

Truly the most meta of all time

5 healing off the minions

[elfin heron]

another reason why it's the best weapon in the game

[torn wind]

Except absolutely nobody uses that hammer

[craggy totem]

You'll be so excited to unlock the hidden axe

[torn wind]

Yeah it's just a worse version of the hidden axe that you HAVE to get a specific hammer for that does nothing to make you do more damage

[elfin heron]

that hammer saved one of my runs where I took too much damage from Cerberus, I healed back like 40 during the adds phase

[open nimbus]

please dont pick that hammer

[torn wind]

Cool, I still actively avoid it

[elfin heron]

I mean, I'm a new player so it helps, but if you're 100+ nights in, you probably won't bother with it

[torn wind]

I used it once early on, found it mediocre and best, and never used it again cause basically every other hammer on spear is better

[elfin heron]

same logic as people not bothering with armor when they get good at Dark Souls, but it's a nice safety net

[open nimbus]

ahh

[craggy totem]

It's funny to call the staff a spear because it's kinda true lol

[open nimbus]

but killing something before you can take damage is the better option, and there are two hammers that double your damage

[torn wind]

Yeah lol brain went H1

It's so similar to the spear

[elfin heron]

it's a bit like the spear in 1

[open nimbus]

well technically three if you count wicked thrasher but the point is, mirrored thrasher and dual moonshot are your priorities depending on what kinda build you're going for

[elfin heron]

the best one costs 5 magic per swing and thus needs a dedicated mana regen build

[craggy totem]

Cardio has you covered immediately

[elfin heron]

yeah but that's luck

[open nimbus]

yes, yes it does but it is the best hammer and you should always take it

it can work with born and lucid gain too

[torn wind]

if you have 3 options why choose to take the worst one

[craggy totem]

Many of the other gains will do just fine, it's just that Cardio was tailor made for this

[elfin heron]

now that I'm playing origination I don't take unseen anymore so I have 0 base mana regen, so I would think twice before taking mirrored

[craggy totem]

Even Glamour should work fine, since Mirrored doesn't involve channeling

[torn wind]

Cardio gain would like a word

Cardio gain mirrored thrasher is goated

[open nimbus]

no need to think, it's simply the best hammer for staff

[torn wind]

But like basically any gain other than glamour gain or tough gain works fine for mirrored thrasher

[open nimbus]

and unseen is an awful arcana card so good to drop it

[elfin heron]

fine, I'll play a Hestia run next, that's a pretty cool idea actually

scorch + mirrored + cardio

[torn wind]

Cardio gain mirrored thrasher and power surge is hilarious. Bonus points for plasma from ares once you unlock him

[open nimbus]

if you get zeus, pick up power surge

but if you get hera, get sworn strike and go for incandescent aura

[torn wind]

It's like the one time power surge is good other than maybe on torches with a fast omega attack build

Incandescent aura mirrored thrasher is great

[open nimbus]

ive also come around to wave strike if you can get a ton of poms on it.... my latest mel staff pb has a wave strike build

[torn wind]

Yeah that's another solid option

Especially if you get lucky enough for king tide

[elfin heron]

hmm, so hestia for scorch + cardio, then mirrored then maybe power surge, then whatever for origination

[torn wind]

Hera cast wouldn't be terrible

to get incandescent aura

[elfin heron]

that Aphrodite boon that gives you HP based on your magic amount is goated though, wish you could force it each run, you get so much

[torn wind]

That's hephaestus

Aphro just gives you more of each

[open nimbus]

aphrodite has spiritual affirmation that gives both

[elfin heron]

was it? pretty sure Aphro has some hp boosting boon, though I might be wrong

[torn wind]

She does

[craggy totem]

It's just a % bonus to all your max health and magick

It's not based on your magick

[torn wind]

Spiritual affirmation gives you some of both then more max gain for the rest of the night

[open nimbus]

people dog on aprhodite but she has a lot going for her. shameless attitude is just free damage, sweet surrender is free damage on top of a curse

[torn wind]

Aphrodite has a lot of utility just I don't care much for her on the main 5 boons

Aside from maybe rapture ring

[elfin heron]

I once had a boon that gave me extra hp, like 20% of my magic

[torn wind]

or glamour gain if I'm using no magick and want an easy curse

But I don't actively seek glamour gain

[open nimbus]

purple jpom'd flutter strike is so good, its 170% for free

[torn wind]

Yep that's heph

[torn wind]

In the right builds yeah it's really good

I had a nutty aphro special build last night

[elfin heron]

sweet surrender is too good for melee builds, I had it on my winning run, +17% damage for just being near the enemy, dumb as hell

where are the nerfs

[open nimbus]

but yeah i usually pick apollo if he comes up over aphrodite

[torn wind]

#h2-victory-boasting message @open nimbus

200% bonus from just common jpom

[open nimbus]

that is really nice

[torn wind]

It's really good in the right cases but needs other stuff to pick up for the lack of curse

[elfin heron]

and that +17% damage is just the common version LV3, I looked up the screenshot

[torn wind]

Daze and freeze are really good for origination since they last so long

[open nimbus]

I know the whole thing about mel staff is the increased base special damage but specials aren't fast so I never build for it

for speed runs

[elfin heron]

provided you have glamour gain, sweet surrender is just too good

[torn wind]

It's an additive 17%

[craggy totem]

What if you have Shimmering though /Shimmering stan

[open nimbus]

dash and cast are a little better

but yes glamour gain is also free

[open nimbus]

nope. it's too slow

[craggy totem]

Awww

[elfin heron]

glamour is the best gain in the game and I will die on this hill, free curse + free magic regen

[open nimbus]

plus if you get dual moonshot, you give up your range and then special is just a worse attack

[elfin heron]

you ltierally don't need to jump through any hoops, it just works

[open nimbus]

you will die with no magick lol

[torn wind]

It's abysmal garbage magick regen for builds that need it

[open nimbus]

it's good when you don't need it but it can't feed mirrored thrasher for example

[elfin heron]

it can sustain mirrored builds, do you still need more

[torn wind]

It can't keep up with a single magick-focused build and is totally worthless on torches

Since passive regen is frozen during torch attack

[torn wind]

No it can't lol

You attack more than once per second

[elfin heron]

maybe if you're tanking and just attacking non-stop

it tops up your mana when you dodge

[torn wind]

I'm gonna just be totally honest here and I'm not trying to be an ass but like I trust the people with more runs than me

[open nimbus]

it's "fine" if you're playing normally and have all the time in the world

i get that

[crude dragon]

It's a mid-tier option

It's not beating Born, Lucid, or Cardio gain for the weapons that need it, but I'll always take it over Ionic, Tough, or Tranquil

[elfin heron]

haha fine, I am being a little cheeky here

it's a very attractive boon for a new player, I like it, so there's that

[craggy totem]

Ionic has got to be the single worst gain boon in the game

As if trying to make up for having too many other good boons

[open nimbus]

yep that makes sense

[torn wind]

Ionic is garbage since it's super inconvenient, tough is unuseable if you have any damage negation, and tranquil requires you to stop playing the game

Glamour isn't the WORST but of the ones that are somewhat viable it is pretty mediocre

[crude dragon]

Ionic exists to fill the gain slot for builds that use Huntress, I guess

[elfin heron]

tranquil is surprisingly fast though? isn't it like 0.5 sec of standing still to proc the mana restore?

[open nimbus]

there's different players though, some play high fear and some play for speed

[crude dragon]

It is, but it's half a second of doing nothing (used to be a full second), which isn't terribly fun

What is terribly fun, though, is Poseidon's

[torn wind]

Tranquil would be really funny on an incandescent aura build though I will admit

[open nimbus]

and it depends on what weapons you use but you kinda want a gain that can give you as much regen as possible and the three best, in this order, are born gain, cardio gain, and lucid gain

[torn wind]

Flood gain is either garbage or absolutely goated

[open nimbus]

flood gain no worky on mirrored thrasher lol

[torn wind]

Little in-between

[crude dragon]

Flood Gain is funny

[elfin heron]

I believe my first mirrored run was with tranquil actually, it was not bad, I just had to glance at my magic bar now and then and then chill for a bit

[open nimbus]

you just lose all your mana and then you cant regen it

[craggy totem]

Just stop and do an omega move ;P

[open nimbus]

it doesnt work, it only regens the omega move magick

[elfin heron]

I'd say tranquil is better than born, but that's likely a controversial opinion here

[crude dragon]

No, that isn't how it works

The description is terrible

[torn wind]

#h2-victory-boasting message flood gain goated

[craggy totem]

Omega move triggers the Flood state, and during Flood state, all of your magick usage just gets refunded

[open nimbus]

yes, but when i pick flood gain on mirrored thrasher, it doesnt regen my attacks

ive tried using it, believe me

[crude dragon]

The Omega will activate Magic Flood, which will continually top you back up to the MP that you were at when you hit that Omega or the cost of your most expensive one, whichever's greater

[crude dragon]

Really good thing that Mirrored Thrasher also applies to the Omega Attack, then

[open nimbus]

yes, but not when im spamming attacks

and if you run out of magick before you can launch an omega attack its joever

[crude dragon]

Here's a thought: Open with the Omega

[open nimbus]

yes, and then 8 seconds later after I am out of magick, I am back to single attacks

[elfin heron]

flood gain's description is so poorly worded I had to search reddit for how that actually works, basically when you omega you proc a special state that makes you stop consuming magic (including the initial omega), this lasts 4 sec, then you wait another 4 sec to be able to do this again

basically, in the heat of combat this won't work well at all

[torn wind]

I nearly threw my p-array flood gain build when I forgot you have to have enough magick to activate the ability for flood gain to activate

So I accidentally dropped below 25 and it wouldn't work

Got lucky with a double tonic at charon at the end

[open nimbus]

right, which is what happens to me at typhon and i only have flood gain

[torn wind]

The regen is 8 seconds

It's 8 seconds after it ends. The uptime is not subtracted

[elfin heron]

doesn't it count from the initial omega? the buff is 4 sec, and then you wait 4 more, no?

[open nimbus]

if you burn all your magick during those 8 seconds, then youre done

[torn wind]

It starts when you use an omega

[craggy totem]

No, the cooldown is counted from when the Flood state ends

[elfin heron]

then it's even worse, why do people even recommend this

[craggy totem]

Because you can never permanently run out

And because you can do extremely expensive moves without penalty

[torn wind]

Watch the video I linked

The most magick-expensive build in the game

[elfin heron]

and then you guys say glamour is bad lol

[torn wind]

Because glamour gain has no special use in a build

The build I had would be impossible with basically anything else

[open nimbus]

flood gain is amazing on builds where your attacks arent draining your magick

[torn wind]

Watch this @elfin heron

[elfin heron]

with flood you can super spam for 4 sec then you gotta chill out and go do other stuff for 8 sec, this forces a certain playstyle

[torn wind]

If you have a good roll and poms chances are everything is dead before the cooldown even matters

[elfin heron]

boss fights though

[torn wind]

Again bro watch the damn video

You can see the timer

It's down for so little time

[elfin heron]

is it a surface video, I don't want to get spoiled

[torn wind]

And even the video after with chronos it was still barely an issue

[elfin heron]

ok it's Chronos, fine

[torn wind]

No but it's rivals cerberus

And normal chronos

[open nimbus]

lmao the max of 30 magick is wild

[torn wind]

Yeah lol

All I needed

Since fine line and ocean swell don't increase p-array cost

[elfin heron]

I don't get how it works, why don't you run out, it doesn't go below 5

[open nimbus]

yeah, the issue on mirrored thrasher is that it will burn through your magick and you won't have any more left to activate flood gain so I avoid it

[torn wind]

Because it's infinite magick while active

Any omega can be activated for free

Including posessed array on skull

[craggy totem]

This is why it's good. You have infinite magick during Flood

[elfin heron]

so you can proc the free magic state even if you're already out?

[torn wind]

That god build would be literally impossible without flood gain or an insanely high magick born gain

[craggy totem]

Yes

[elfin heron]

still have to wait 8 sec though

[torn wind]

🤦‍♂️

Then get seismic servo and make it 5 seconds

[craggy totem]

Poms can increase the duration of your Flood state to over 8s itself, too

[torn wind]

I had like 9.5 seconds in that clip I think

lvl9 rare

[elfin heron]

fine, I get it, it works in these extreme cases, but I'd rather wait 0.5 sec with tranquil, it would be much more preferrable in a normal run

[crude dragon]

@open nimbus Gonna ask you to re-read this

[torn wind]

0.5 seconds and then another like 2 seconds for it to finish

[crude dragon]

Especially the last few words

[torn wind]

Unless you have poms cause at lvl 4 it's 170%/1second

[crude dragon]

Eh, with how well it scales with poms and rarity, it's rarely going to be that long

[open nimbus]

im telling you, i have done so many speed runs trying to use it and ive lost magick entirely on bosses

[torn wind]

Yeah I know just saying for base use

It does scale very well

[elfin heron]

it starts at 75% magic per second, common no upgrades, should be enough to top you off

[open nimbus]

it doesnt matter what it says when if I'm doing a run, I actually run out of magick

[crude dragon]

I mean, "base use" these days usually means you're running JPom

[torn wind]

just get a better chair

[crude dragon]

So, level 4 is less of a "go out of your way for it" and more of an expectation

[torn wind]

Well bunny here only just recently got their first clear so basing it off that for talking with them

They got about 30-40 hours until they get jpom

Actually no that was I think my time for epilogue

So maybe like 20-30 hours

[elfin heron]

I've heard it's like 6 clears down, 9 clears up for the true ending, shouldn't take that long

[torn wind]

More like 8 and 5 I think

[elfin heron]

well somewhere around that ballpark, but I'm trying to appreciate the story so it bloats my playtime somewhat

I guess some people don't care and just skip dialog, I don't want to rush it too much

[craggy totem]

Yeah, no need to rush

[buoyant matrix]

9 down, 5 up

[torn wind]

I didn't skip anything

I listened to full dialogue and always talked to everybody

And did gifts

And I think my credits roll was like 30 hours in

uhhhhh

[elfin heron]

but did you salute everyone each time? they say different things every time

[torn wind]

one of like 3 things

"different" sure but they repeat

[elfin heron]

Nemesis initially scoffs at your salutes, then warms up

[torn wind]

I'm aware

[elfin heron]

it's cute

but why won't Mel sit on the benches in the training area? she either says "I don't sit" or just straight up scoffs

it's like, what did I do, why even put this option in if she's gonna be mean about it

[torn wind]

Same reason she doesn't sleep in her bed. Every time she returns to shadow she sleeps through the whole day

She's got plenty of rest

[torn wind]

Because it's funny

[plain relic]

Man aspect of morrigan pumps out crazy damage with hephestus and ares

[elfin heron]

I guess

[plain relic]

Just hit cerberus for a 3.6k ritual on level 1 of the weapon

[torn wind]

Why bother adding any dialogue at all or unique characters to the game. Let me just fight uncolored cubes and call that a game

Takes a bit of coding and asking a person to say a line so they did it just as a funny easter egg

[elfin heron]

just thought this particular interaction was a bit out of place, as Mel isn't mean normally

last time I clicked on that bench she was like ugh, made me feel bad

[craggy totem]

I mean, you don't exist

[torn wind]

Mel is nice but can be a little self-centered or defensive at times

[craggy totem]

She's not scoffing at you, she doesn't know you exist

And there will be things that make ya feel worse than Mel not wanting to sit, possibly

[tranquil wren]

zagreus doesn't sit or sleep (except for story related stuff) either

what's the difference here

[elfin heron]

I've heard the ending was bad but they rewrote it due to backlash and it's okay now, but no spoilers please

[craggy totem]

It's not about being good or bad

[tranquil wren]

I highly doubt they rewrote it due to backlash, it was too quick for that

[craggy totem]

Yeah the turnaround time was blazing fast for development ngl

[torn wind]

Old ending was too sudden was all. Not really a spoiler

But it wasn't a 1.0 release

The ending wasn't finalized

[craggy totem]

I just mean in terms of things can happen in a story that evoke unpleasant emotions (possibly on purpose)

[elfin heron]

there was a flood of negative reviews complaining about the ending, if you filter reviews by negative on Steam they're all about the ending, people liked everything else in the game

[tranquil wren]

yeah we know

[elfin heron]

and then the devs took this feedback to heart, allegedly

[tranquil wren]

where did you get that from

[torn wind]

Yep and chances are they're from before the 1.0 release or the post-release patch that let you reset the story

[torn wind]

Or they just were already planning it and the story wasn't finished since the game hadn't fully released yet

[craggy totem]

There are of course stories where only pleasant or inconsequential things happen, and that's fine, but not every story is only pleasant or inconsequential things, and that's also fine

That's all I meant by you might feel worse than just about some sitting

[torn wind]

People judging a game for dialogue or story when the game isn't even in 1.0 yet is silly

[craggy totem]

Pre-1.0 there was no ending at all, so negative reactions about the ending specifically would not have been to pre-1.0

[elfin heron]

I'm suspecting the original ending was likely a downer, and people are sick and tired of those, hence the backlash, but again I don't want to be spoiled, so just ignore me please

[craggy totem]

Nope it's not about that

[tranquil wren]

it wasn't a downer

[craggy totem]

Two totally separate topics

[torn wind]

The negative reviews mean nothing and they're just from a bunch of people that wanted extra cheries on their mountainous sunday

[elfin heron]

e.g. Silksong's ending is good, you save everyone including the spoiler person, it's a great ending and everyone liked that, very hopeful and optimistic, not another Dark Souls style "and then everyone died and the world ended" doom and gloom ending

[craggy totem]

It really isn't about that

But also, there's nothing wrong with a downer ending either

[tranquil wren]

bruh we're trying to say it isn't like that at all

[elfin heron]

fine, then I stand corrected

[lament owl]

never finished hollow knight or played silksong =/

[tranquil wren]

they're bad games, waste of time anyway /s

[lament owl]

more trying to 100% hades 2 and DS2

[tranquil wren]

dark souls 2? good luck with the grind

[lament owl]

Completed ds3 so, I hope it isn't too bad

[tranquil wren]

the covenant achievements are a bit rough

since the ds games are fairly dead

[lament owl]

can you farm things for it like in ds3?

[tranquil wren]

I think so? not 100% sure

farming the knights in anor londo was still pretty tragic though

[buoyant matrix]

the "staircase"

i haven't played any ds games and i still know about the "staircase"

[tranquil wren]

lol tbf that's from ds1

with the archers

[lament owl]

Hope it isn't another 20+ hour killing grind

[tranquil wren]

elden ring 100% was far more fun

[lament owl]

Elden is light work compared to ds3

[tranquil wren]

ds3 had you collecting every single ring and every single spell but elden ring just had you kill bosses and get different endings

[lament owl]

Only thing was that I missed ranni moon before going into new game. So, I had to do ranni quest line twice

[tranquil wren]

oh wait do you need all spells in ER?

[lament owl]

You still gotta get the legendary stuff

[tranquil wren]

ah right

[lament owl]

Not all of it

[tranquil wren]

it's been a while

[lament owl]

And boss drops arent included

Unlike ds3

[elfin heron]

Hollow Knight has a very slow start, Silksong is hype right out of the gate, but the skill floor is also much higher

both are some of my favorite games ever though

[final saddle]

What changes does Rivals Cerberus have to OG?

Like, specifically what no longer works in the new arena? My last underworld run was my first time against it and I died to a really unfair thing that’s still ticking me off lol

[crude dragon]

So do you remember Lernie's Extreme Measures arena?

[buoyant matrix]

all the lava (duh)
slams now leave a fire zone where his hand hits
has a parry move that's always followed by a slam then back swipe
more frequent ground hounds
phase 2 transition starts at 66% hp instead of 50%
his chase attack now has a dash halfway through
his fire breath attack now usually has a dash halfway through

that's all i can remember off the top of my head

[crude dragon]

Don't forget the second phase starting with him having 12 Wards tokens

[buoyant matrix]

oh right that too

[final saddle]

So basically he blocks now and throws more crap on the floor

[crude dragon]

Blocks and parries

[final saddle]

What about his giant circle attack, does he always dash a half second before it pops?

[buoyant matrix]

the block is easy to play around, the most troublesome is the dash he does halfway through fire breath

he's actually considered one of the easier rivals fights

[buoyant matrix]

nope

[limpid oar]

you can kind of kite regular cerb, but rivals you've got to fight him at close range

[final saddle]

Oh so I just got unlucky

Because he killed me with a literally undodgable circle attack (the one where he makes everywhere but around him a death zone)

[limpid oar]

I feel like I either damageless him or tank a ton of stuff with little inbetween

[buoyant matrix]

you can just stick to him for that

if he dashes, the zone will follow him

[final saddle]

I couldn’t

He spawned on the other side of the arena and full dashed away as soon as I got in the safe zone

[buoyant matrix]

oh, whenever he digs down you want to run to the center of the arena asap

[final saddle]

So far he’s the only rivals fight I couldn’t improv my way through

[buoyant matrix]

specifically to avoid that

[buoyant matrix]

well yeah you're not expected to win against them first try

especially rivals3 and 4, with how much damage they deal

[final saddle]

Honestly I think I might skip R4

[torn wind]

For 100% you don't have to beat rivals 4, just reach them with it active

[untold plaza]

you only need to encounter all the rivals fights for 100%, not fight
keep that in mind

[final saddle]

So far out of the 5 Rivals fights I’ve had only 2 of them are actually better, and for different reasons too

[buoyant matrix]

you don't have to win it for the achievements, just give it a try 👀

[final saddle]

Scylla is a chaotic blast to fight and Rivals Eris is just flat out easier than regular Eris

[untold plaza]

I will say I think all the rival's actually have fun or cool differences except prometheus just having heracles tag team you
it doesnt fit the story from what ive read and doesnt make it a more fun fight

[buoyant matrix]

if you like a chaotic blast, you'll probably enjoy unrivaled prometheus too

[tranquil wren]

heracles freed prometheus in the original myth

also they're lovers

[untold plaza]

awww ok nvm

[torn wind]

Nice

[untold plaza]

that makes it make a bit more sense

[tranquil wren]

(I'm joking about the second part, but it is a headcanon of mine)

[buoyant matrix]

"and here's the yaoi fight"
-kirby during the twitch rivals event

[untold plaza]

no I can see it

[torn wind]

Heracles broke his own father's curse upon prometheus

[untold plaza]

I guess it urks me that they dont just share a health bar like scylla with charybids and the band

[torn wind]

It behaves like Theseus and Astereus in the first game

[buoyant matrix]

that's actually good for knuckle bones purposes

[torn wind]

Which were the boss of Elysium and functioned the same way

[untold plaza]

oh I didnt think about that

[untold plaza]

...I hadnt thought of that 👀

[torn wind]

The thing is that they need separate healthbars unlike scylla because they have their own phases separately

Meanwhile scylla is a collective phase system

You can't fully kill any of the sirens or charybdis before the second phase

[untold plaza]

that makes sense

[torn wind]

But you can kill heracles or prometheus without even reaching the other's second or third phase

[untold plaza]

imo its always better to target haracles so he doesnt bother you during the flame lanes

[torn wind]

Or just be a gamer and multitask a memory game while beating his ass

[buoyant matrix]

i target both then damage heracles while simultaneously memorizing the fire lanes, saves a lot of time 👍

[torn wind]

Hereditary bane stonks

[untold plaza]

i dont have the brain power to do both on the second memory phase
I can try tho

[buoyant matrix]

you only have to memorize 4 lanes

the final wave will always be the inverse of the 4th wave

[untold plaza]

I thought it was 5

oh

[tranquil wren]

you can also just not worry about the first wave since you can stand in a safe spot before he starts firing

[torn wind]

Yeah technically for 5th fire you just have to move to anywhere that had fire on 4th

[buoyant matrix]

uhhh heracles wouldn't like that

[untold plaza]

yknow for the guy who says "try to find the pattern...there is none" its usually middle down middle down or middle up middle up

[tranquil wren]

lol true, but I just dash up and down and he usually doesn't hit me

[torn wind]

bottom middle top bottom middle

Or just be a REAL gamer and i-frame it

RIP

[buoyant matrix]

bruh i sent a singular link?

anyway i sent an image in #h2-builds-and-combat

[torn wind]

Yeah IDK it's never done that to me

[untold plaza]

I would bring knuckle bones to damage both but im purposefully keeping my evil eye on promoetheus to make it a bit easier

[buoyant matrix]

check it out

oh nvm it deleted that too 😐

[stuck minnow]

Made it to Prometheus with an Ω Special build on the axe

[torn wind]

The bot just doesn't like you

[buoyant matrix]

god i miss having embed perms in this channel

[stuck minnow]

Got him below half health too

Outstanding first attempt I think

[crude dragon]

Well, Knuckle Bones would also give you some mit on top of that damage burst (even more fun since that burst can be Hitched)

[stuck minnow]

But memory wasn't always my strong suit....
So his full screen fire attack there is going to be a problem

[untold plaza]

oh interesting
what type of damage does the knuckles bones do? like do I need hitch on my attack special cast?

[crude dragon]

Hitch will spread all damage done between afflicted targets except for Scorch, IIRC, so you just want a source of it

[buoyant matrix]

ok now check the #h2-builds-and-combat

for a helpful diagram

[untold plaza]

oh right I forgot how hitch works (I almost never use it)

[buoyant matrix]

??? hitch can spread scorch damage

[torn wind]

Just be a gamer and i-frame all of them to flex on him

[crude dragon]

Even better, then

So it just spreads all the love

[torn wind]

Yeah hitch spreads all damage

Makes me throwing a really good thermal dynamics and incadescent aura build even more sad

And freezer burn

[craggy totem]

The only things that Scorch got nerfed on are crits (including minicrits) and AQ iirc

I may complain about that but I believe it's true that everything else still works

[untold plaza]

wait can knuckle bones crit with thanatos aspect

[craggy totem]

Thanatos only gives crit to omega moves

[untold plaza]

ah

I honestly cant decide which ailment is best for raw attack
prob either scorch or blitz

maybe wound but that might be my ares bias

[craggy totem]

Depends on what you're attacking with

[untold plaza]

true

[crude dragon]

Hitch if it has high base damage, Scorch if it hits a lot or hits quickly

Blitz and blast just T-pose

[untold plaza]

so for moonstone axe I would go for hitch

[torn wind]

Scorch is higher total damage but takes more time to deal damage than stuff like blitz or Poseidon waves

[crude dragon]

Yeah, axe wants Hitch

Or Apollo/Aphro if you want raw damage

[torn wind]

Axe likes spamming raw damage on whirlwind and such

[untold plaza]

yeah
I assume that logic applies even more for nergal since its slower

[torn wind]

Nergal lives and dies by the whirlwind

Especially if you get psychic whirlwind

[untold plaza]

psychic whirlwind is my goat

[torn wind]

Iron core and psychic whirlwind lets you just turn your brain off

[untold plaza]

true
another winner is aphrodite special plus giga cleaver
on nergal
with an upgraded phase shift

and then spam it

[torn wind]

Exceptional talent + psychic whirlwind

[untold plaza]

I see the vision

[torn wind]

I’ve done it before and it just lasts ages while you run around spamming omega special

Or casts

[untold plaza]

thats plus a zeus cast wpould decimate

[torn wind]

Prom flare is an option for exceptional talent requirements, right?

As a bonus

[untold plaza]

what's prom flare do again?

[torn wind]

I know it’s attack/special, cast/rush/gain, and then one of the others

[torn wind]

damage over time after omega cast

The 0.13s one

[untold plaza]

ah right
that would maybe apply

[torn wind]

I think it’s an option for exceptional talent in the third category

[untold plaza]

ye

[torn wind]

So then yeah go around spamming glorious disaster duo while using psychic whirlwind with exceptional talent lol

It is a shame that glorious disaster doesn’t really work well with winners circle

Or any damage over time cast effects

[untold plaza]

cause it could slap yeah

[torn wind]

Winners circle does work really well with meat grinder + air quality though

And prom flare obviously

And gusts

Since those all are separate of the cast timer

[slim pike]

Yes it does. Borderline essential

[torn wind]

I thought it only worked while the cast was active

[slim pike]

What

Do you know what glorious disaster does?

[torn wind]

Well apparently not 🤷‍♂️

[slim pike]

Every time a prom flare ticks damage on a target, it causes an extra lightning strike on it

[storm glen]

that is NOT what it does

[slim pike]

The wording on the boon wasn't properly updated when solar ring was reworked and prom flare split off from waaay back in EA

[slim pike]

Yes, it is, I've dissected this move in great detail.

[storm glen]

i thought it was like piss poor damage anyway

[slim pike]

Try it with air quality

30 ticks of 50 damage for 1500 totsl

[torn wind]

I think the reason why I got confused was mixed up with it not activating on Charon axe

Like I think I knew at some point that was how it worked and I got those two concepts mixed up

Winners circle being good for it and Charon axe being bad for it

[slim pike]

you need to overcharge it, and charon only forces a level one channel

[torn wind]

Yeah I’m aware

That’s what I got mixed up

[slim pike]

it wouldn't be that great anyway

prom flare doesn't seem to inherit cast size bonuses properly

it used to, but that was back when it blocked out new casts from being laid while it did its thing

[solid epoch]

What do y'all think Hades 1 does better than Hades 2?
I've never played Hades 1

[dreamy glade]

You kind of already know what to expect in Hades 2, whereas with h1, it was new and that element of surprise and discovery is strong

[slim pike]

H1 does a more personal story

Also, gun.

[proper seal]

thats a hard question

id say both are equally good

but in terms of gameplay, hades 2 does have a nicer gameplay while Hades 1 has a better plot and ending imo

[crude dragon]

Storytelling

[craggy totem]

I think it's a bit of a simplistic way to assess it

Hades 1 had a less ambitious scope, both narratively and mechanically

[crude dragon]

Well yeah, because I wanted to keep it brief

[craggy totem]

No, no shade on ya, just tryna dig into it more

[crude dragon]

It's also a lot more personal, both with the main plots and the characters' bonds

[stuck minnow]

As soon as you slice into an onion, it makes you cry

Don't you find that a bit unsettling, lad?
I won't shed tears over a cut up vegetable

[untold plaza]

imo, hades 2 can be summed up as more of the same in the best way possible

[solid epoch]

Do y'all recommend I get Hades 1 once I'm done playing Hades 2?

[untold plaza]

100% yes

[solid epoch]

How many hours y'all got in Hades 1 and in Hades 2?

[untold plaza]

33 in hades 1
150 in hades 2
I didnt get the true ending in hades 1 so thats not an accurate playtime

[solid epoch]

Damn I've got around 60 hours in Hades 2 atm

[silk needle]

Can someone help me with "Silk and Spitefulness" achivement please. im so lost, when i talk to arachne she's saying some random stuff instead of things that she should say to trigger this achivement

[buoyant matrix]

talk to athena, preferably in olympus

[silk needle]

how to trigger her

with her keepsake?

and have strenght crad?

[buoyant matrix]

yes

[crude dragon]

Doesn't that specific step need a natural spawn?

[winter egret]

Is Aspect of Supay like.. the Vampire Survivors Aspect lmao? just like auto fire and using specials?

[elfin heron]

what are the requirements for Rite of Vapor-Cleansing (hot springs incantation)? I've gifted 1 nectar to tons of people

[winter egret]

Is it strong?

[elfin heron]

just tried gifting Moros a second one, and got the relationship progress incantation, but still no hot springs

[crude dragon]

It's a bullet heaven weapon, yes

[crude dragon]

No

It's a B-tier weapon when the other torches are A or S-tier

[silk needle]

did that, nothing happend 🙁

[iron plover]

85h in hades I. Just a few in hades 2 (I started it yesterday)

[broken glen]

It USED to be amazing, but it was repeatedly nerfed. With the right build, it can still be really good, but it has an abysmal early game

[graceful sundial]

It used to be one of the dumbest things ever

[winter egret]

The default mel torches seem pretty strong 10% crit is nice

[graceful sundial]

But they tuned it down. Its still fun tho. I managed to do 32+ heat with it. You can focus on dodging since it will autofire

Fear**

[winter egret]

I'm just building up fear now, I just did an 8 fear surface and underworld run, won pretty comfortably.

[tranquil wren]

I've heard enough, 67 fear immediately

[winter egret]

I know my limits, I HOPE to be able to do 34 fear for all the statues, but I'm not sure yet, these games aren't my uh.. strongest lmao

[tranquil wren]

32F! don't add anything unnecessary haha

[winter egret]

I still play with full Death defiance, and even moro's trinket on either 2nd to last area or for underworld last area

[tranquil wren]

and surface is always half the requirement of the underworld

[graceful sundial]

Bro you will don't worry 32F is a lot easier in hades 2 than it was in hades 1

[winter egret]

Prometheus is getting a lot easier though

[graceful sundial]

You have many vows to choose from

I did everything with medea

[winter egret]

I do fates whims runs though cause they are more fun for me

[graceful sundial]

Yeah i agree

[winter egret]

and they are VERY strong imo

like you can make nearly anything work

[earnest gazelle]

does anyone know if u have to wear the keepsake to deepen ur bond with icarus? ive been trying for a while now at this point..

[craggy totem]

You do not. He's just a shy boy.

[earnest gazelle]

okay ill stop using it on my runs then ty

[jolly hound]

what’s this Supay slander

you’re not wrong it’s early game is suboptimal but hestia attack Zeus special you win

[quartz temple]

does hades have like a tag

like the tag next to ur user?

i got it nvm

[stuck minnow]

Wondering if Odysseus' advice is actually helpful

I mean, his advice has been helpful to me
Focusing on Roxy makes fighting Scylla significantly easier in my experience

[jolly hound]

He gives you hints and won’t tell you a blow by blow game plan. Plus he’s got a hot voice

[stuck minnow]

I mean yeah I know that

I have beaten chronos thus far

[still mantle]

"Me, this is the fifth time you've showed the class your supay air quality build"

[jolly hound]

run it then tell me Supay sucks

[still mantle]

Supay is goaded

Genuinely my favorite weapon

[broken glen]

I mean Odysseus gives a lot of the same hints that Achilles did, but his feel less useful because it’s the sequel and most of us already know how things work

[still mantle]

*except for the boss specific hints

[broken glen]

(And he only tells you about bosses and regions after you’ve gotten through them… what useful scouts)

[jolly hound]

It’s still a video game, they don’t wanna ruin stuff for ya

[still mantle]

Consistency matters

[jolly hound]

Hera dash supay go brrr too

[still mantle]

No

[broken glen]

“Hey Achilles I encountered [boss]”
“Woah no way we got reports of that be careful”

90% of the boss advice dialogue

[still mantle]

You do no damage to bosses

[still mantle]

I mean targeting Roxy is optimal

[jolly hound]

That’s what Hestia and Zeus are for, it’s not like I’m gonna dash my way to a win anyway

[still mantle]

I did that with ares dash

[jolly hound]

elaborate, i cant remember the last time i took ares dash and if i did it's because i wanted arterial spray from poseidon and it was an afterthought

[stuck minnow]

"Achilles"

[still mantle]

Heroic ares dash off rip. Full blades build with poseidon and heph, pommed it like 8 times then got echo

My blades were doing like 400 to chronos

[broken glen]

oh sorry I forgot because Oddyseus' personality is a cardboard cutout (I love hades 2 but they did NOTHING with him)

[stuck minnow]

Their voices sound similar but their personalities are NOT the same

[jolly hound]

eh, the way he says "goddess" makes me question my sexuality, good enough

[broken glen]

I didn't say the cardboard cutout wasn't hot

[jolly hound]

that'll do it, maybe i wont reset if i get ares first next time lol

[stuck minnow]

Would you sleep with it?

[still mantle]

Cut above scales better but at least for me it seems to have inconsistent activation

Like its only triggering once per encounter or once per omega move or something

[broken glen]

...who's asking

[stuck minnow]

Me.

Vegeta thumb pose

[craggy totem]

I've seen like three separate people say this lmao what did SGG put out into the world

[crude dragon]

It's only 10% crit on attack and special, not 10% global. Still solid, just not as busted as you might want

[crude dragon]

Odysseus daki when

[torn wind]

Specifically the very poorly drawn one when it’s zooming out for credits

[jolly hound]

carnal pleasure goes hard turns out with success rate and there’s like 50 plasma balls around Typhon lol bye

[stuck minnow]

balls

[jolly hound]

so many balls

[shell lake]

How do you unlock ||the other rivals fights? I finished the game yet still only have hecate/polyphemus||

[red fox]

Beat both rival, beat certain miniboss on surface, hope npc give you incantations

[crude dragon]

Gotta see ||Charybdis||, and beat both routes' boss on Rivals 1

Then have Selene can give you the unlock

[frail crypt]

Rivals Scylla doesn't seem that hard

just very overwhelming

[unkempt zodiac]

rivals scylla has a "i've already used my dash too recently i cant dodge this next attack" problem

you have to play a little smart when doing melee

[frail crypt]

trying a dedicated build for once, didn't go well

the build went well I'm just not used to it

[sturdy magnet]

I just realized something Vah Medoh cry in BOTW is same sound effect for Aetos but slowed down

[crude dragon]

Makes sense

Pretty sure they both just use eagle or hawk noises

[frail crypt]

Realized that the unseen card is crazy on axe

the regen happens during your spin

[still mantle]

Just use glamour gain

[jolly hound]

I hope hades 3 has the aspect of bophades

[buoyant matrix]

try speaking to hecate, ordering something from charon delivery in crossroads, taking Athena's keepsake to arachne

[plain bronze]

If I use hordes 3 do I get more gold, or does it just divide the same amount of gold across more enemies and have them each drop less?

[torn wind]

The incantation is automatically unlocked

When you do both it just gives it to you at the cauldron automatically

[still mantle]

idk, but hordes 3 is based

[copper bison]

further enforcing why Glamour Gain is insane on any of the axes that aren't Charon tbh

Unseen but no need to use the Arcana and you constantly just have Weak on everything around you

[jolly hound]

I’m sad I didn’t know the answer

[crude dragon]

I'm reasonably sure it doesn't increase the gold drops

[jolly hound]

Why did it take me this long to realize henious affront is amazing

[torn wind]

It’s really good if you manage to get that trio of gods yeah

[buoyant matrix]

counterpoint, it deactivates huntress

if you have psychic it's fine cause you're not doing many base attacks anyway but it's detrimental on mel axe

[copper bison]

fairs I was thinking ab Than and Nerg

how do ppl play Mel Axe actually I just do dash strike build

it always felt way too slow to do anything else with

[red fox]

Dash strike special, just that

[copper bison]

oh ok

[red fox]

Unless i get psychic whirlwind

[crude dragon]

That is 5 Grasp that could be better spent anywhere else, even Excellence