h2-discussion

[naive pier]

That being said, since this is my highest Skull heat run thus far, who should I prioritize for Special boon? Aphrodite, Hera, and Apollo seem great for regular attack.
I guess Apollo would be good on Special if I'm button mashing, for greater accuracy.

[broken creek]

Blitz

Its medea so hera attack blitz special is the standard

[jolly hound]

Don’t sleep on aphro special on Medea, it hits way harder than you think. Blitz will out damage it but if you’re in ephyra and see aphro and no Zeus, don’t reset, play it out

[broken creek]

Tbf theres zero reason to even reset a run until 65+

[jolly hound]

incorrect, howling soul

[broken creek]

As the circe player who refuses to play howling at 62+, my statement still stands

[mild arch]

Omg im so dumb, how did i just realise that the speed fear thing makes every enemy attack faster, i always thought it just made them move faster 😭

[cunning laurel]

cmoon its better than last gasp

[broken creek]

At least last gasp is funny

Howling just randomly takes a hard right when the enemy was 2 inches in front of it

[craggy totem]

They attack, move, and spawn faster, everything is faster

[jolly hound]

I once had a cursed run with last gasp giving 64% buff (8 defiances used) I won but it didn’t feel like a win lol

Thanks echo and Athena

[shell lake]

Is it just me or is typhon easier than a good chunk of bosses? He was the only boss i beat in one try

[craggy totem]

He's easier than some of them, sure

[mild arch]

Imo typhons attacks are easy to dodge than most other bosses

[jolly hound]

I def feared promo more than typhon til rivals

[merry whale]

typhon is far more straightforward ye

[timid vigil]

i still fear rivals prom more than Typhon

[jolly hound]

that damn circle

[naive pier]

• Aspect of Medea +90% damage

• Sworn Strike +105% Attack damage

• Nova Flourish +150% Special Damage

• Tall Order +25% Damage

• Rallying Cry + 50% Olympian Bonus Damage

• Origination Arcana +50 Damage to fos with 2 curses

• Perfect Image +28% No-Hit Bonus Damage

• Mutual Destruction (Bonus damage increases the less HP you have remaining)

• Double Strike +15% Double Strike Chance

• Tough Gain (shrug off 3 damage per hit and restore 150 magic) and Brave Face (Automatically use 10 magic to resist up to 30% of any damage

typhon is dead

i just melted through phase 1 in less than 3 seconds

is the easiest way to get icarus to show up in the crossroads to spam overworld runs with hammer during thessaly until he shows up

[stone cloak]

Hey guys whats the ideal boons for a first night run

[buoyant matrix]

you mean a fresh file run

[stone cloak]

Yep

[buoyant matrix]

if you're speedrunning start apollo attack then get breaker rush from poseidon and look for beach ball
if you're just trying to win then lucid gain is the most consistent start

[stone cloak]

Huh.

Never thought of that before

[buoyant matrix]

you have three build options to win
beach ball (duh)
ol reliable omega attack, get one of the %boost attack boons and then weed killer
scalding vapor, poseidon attack or special with any source of scorch

the world record speedrun was done with beach ball and the hitless run was done with scalding vapor, in case you wanna see how pros play it

[stone cloak]

Hm ill take a look at it

How i was running before was apollo dash for speed and aphrodite attack or scorch tactics, tended to avoid using omega attacks since i forgot how to time them and stuff

Ill see how it tries out later the other half of the battle was remembering how chronos fights

[buoyant matrix]

omega attacks are really good, especially if you grab apollo attack later

[stone cloak]

Hm k ima learn how to use them properly thanks

Oh damn omega really is a nuke why was i never using this

[mild arch]

What are all "chance-based effects"

Except dodge or daze

[buoyant matrix]

there's a ton of them

check the prereqs for success rate in hermes boon list

it's all of that plus a few that aren't listed

[mild arch]

O wow

i did not expect that much

Woah i just got judgement activated from circe

[buoyant matrix]

an example of not being listed is antler

[jolly hound]

Does it work on raki

[buoyant matrix]

it used to, they removed it

[jolly hound]

Damn

[calm flicker]

I remember the first time I was given time to examine Ephyra. It was rather magical. I've managed to miss the fact that Ephyra, the city that worships Hades & Persephone, is strewn with the rotten dead. Corpses piled high & the buzzing of flies. The Necropolis' foreboding guitar was also playing, which really played into it. It was pretty damn cool.

[winter egret]

I might be dumb, I finished the epiloge, who is Hecate to Mel?

[stuck minnow]

Just beat Eris

Barely

[winter egret]

oh should probably not talk about this here

I will go to story discussion

[stuck minnow]

Hestia Aphrodite combo came in clutch ngl

Me when... when 1000 damage

But also

Afflicted foes take 100 damage accrued from this every 1 Sec.
is a very confusing and poor description of the effect

like does it mean it only does 100 dps?

That's the logical conclusion to draw based on the description

[winter egret]

Are you talking about the Hestia flame boon?

[stuck minnow]

Scorch is a very poorly explained status effect

[winter egret]

It does ticking damage, stacks upto 999 and then ticks down, you can speed it up with other boons from Hestia, but I don't think it's that good, other boons are MUCH better

[stuck minnow]

Supergiant seems to have an issue with overcomplicating very simple mechanics

the descriptions anyway

I was going for the Hestia-Selene duo thing

Which stacks with Pyro Technique and I find that hilarious

[winter egret]

I might be tripping, maybe theres some hidden mechanic that I'm missing, but I found Hestia to be the weakest god.

[stuck minnow]

Figured it'd help me with Charybdis since I'd be scorching all the tentacles at once

But i ran into Eris instead

[winter egret]

I hate that damn squid.

[craggy totem]

You're definitely tripping, I'm sorry to say

[stuck minnow]

Almost killed her once
But she got me just a fraction of a second sooner

And I mean it when I say that, I was one hit away from winning that fight

[winter egret]

Maybe hestia gets op with all the buffs that make the scorch tick quicker and stuff

I've never really used a lot of hestia's stuff, apart from her mana regen on quick hitting weapons, that's kinda peak.

[stuck minnow]

Hestia and Aphrodite work fairly well
They have a duo that makes Scorch stacks stay frozen when the enemy is Weak
So if you have Glamour Gain you can just have permanent Scorch as long as you're close enough
Works well with Zorephet attack, and presumably Lim and Oros as well

[craggy totem]

There's a handful of things about Hestia:

• the damage done by the tick-down can be buffed by all global damage buffs (e.g. remove 100 Scorch stacks but do 200 damage)
• Pyro Technique definitely makes it hit much harder, especially if you're playing with jpom and guaranteeing levels in it
• her godsent ignores the Scorch limit
• she also has some great duos, one of my favorite infusions, a gain that's BiS for some use cases, etc.

[stuck minnow]

I haven't been able to get her Godsent Hex unfortunately

I keep building for it, but she simply refuses

[winter egret]

Does the Zeus Infusion, work on scorch?

[craggy totem]

No, AQ and multiplicative crit don't work on scorch

[stuck minnow]

was about to say

[craggy totem]

This was a deliberate nerf because the devs were like "holy moly Scorch is too strong", apparently

[stuck minnow]

Pressure Points

[craggy totem]

I get not letting AQ work for it but let Scorch crit 😩

[stuck minnow]

Stacking Scorch is literally the fastest I've ever cleared out Thessaly

And also let me beat Eris

[craggy totem]

Yeah, the other thing about Scorch is that it totally doesn't care how mobile the enemy is

They can teleport or run away at lightspeed or whatever but they're still taking damage (sucker!!!)

[stuck minnow]

Interestingly I don't even have Pyro Technique yet

And I'm at Olympus

[craggy totem]

Yeah, that's the main kicker if you're using it as your primary damage output rather than a bonus damage source -- not having Pyro Tech feels bad

(As a secondary damage output, though, it's very strong even without)

[stuck minnow]

Though Burning Desire has helped massively, since I'm using Zorephet
All enemies I'm attacking are Weak by default, so I get 100% uptime of the effect

Scorch Duration on Weak Foes: ∞

[winter egret]

Honestly, if you are struggling with Surface at all, you GOTTA try maxed out Mel Umbral Flames, even better, pair it with the bird.

% based boon on attack
Hera on Cast or Special,
Mana regen from Hestia, or Apollo or Hera
try grab zeus too, or Ares

Grab all the Casts X when you use Omega, costs X extra Mana

You will fully wipe out Surface, and you'll be like, why the heck did I never use this weapon.

[stuck minnow]

No flames

I do not care for Ygnium

[winter egret]

I never used to like it, then I tried it and damn, it's g ood.

[stuck minnow]

I just think it's the most boring weapon so far

[craggy totem]

Try coat 👀

[stuck minnow]

Me when I hold left click

[winter egret]

Coat is kinda boring unless you use Shiva, Shiva is the most fun aspect.

[stuck minnow]

Don't have it yet

[naive pier]

ran out of time in the hecate fight because i fought zagreus
Lost all my death defiances
Echo didn't come through for me

chronos is going to kicketh my butteth

[winter egret]

I love shiva

[craggy totem]

Got a treat waitin for ya 👀

Mel coat best weapon in the game :)

[winter egret]

Swap to Gorgon amulet if you can, and try get athena to refesh all your DD's

[naive pier]

Athena just gives one DD doesn't she?

[craggy totem]

(In seriousness, ime coat is fairly love it or hate it. But look forward to trying out 😆 )

[craggy totem]

She has two DD blessings.

One of them is "prime a bunch to get a new DD every location"

[naive pier]

i will pray🫠

[craggy totem]

The other is "refill all your used DDs and make them even better"

[winter egret]

Yeah she can refresh all

[craggy totem]

You'll only see the second one if you have used DDs, I believe

[winter egret]

Mel coat did get me my first underworld win

I do love the punchy punchy

[craggy totem]

Even when I'm playing like dirt it's so good to me 🥺

[winter egret]

ALSO JESUS, Do not sleep on Hephestus, omg, I had a run where I got heroic attack from hephestus, got the CD down to 2 seconds, my god....

[stuck minnow]

I am desperate for Hestia's Godsent Hex
Because like
1000 stacks until the hex lands sounds really good
That's several seconds of free, screenwide scorch damage and then 1000 stacks on top of that after
PLUS Pyro Technique

[winter egret]

IT was so strong

[stuck minnow]

Strength + Weak?

[crude dragon]

Nah, you just need missing DDs

[craggy totem]

I may simply be brain-fried, but I'm trying and failing to get the difference between used DDs and missing DDs

[naive pier]

thank you athena
My death defiances are back i love you sweetie

[crude dragon]

You don't need to have used all of them for her refill to be offered (on a natural spawn), is what I mean

[naive pier]

HADES GAVE ME LAST GASP

[craggy totem]

Ah sure, aye. I don't mean to say all of 'em being used up 👍

[naive pier]

I HAVE A SHOT AGAINST RIVALS CHRONOS

[crude dragon]

Chat does she know

[naive pier]

<-clueless

[crude dragon]

She def doesn't

[craggy totem]

About what

This appears to be an actual Rivals fight

Cos she mentioned fighting Hec earlier

And that's the only thing I can think of that y'all might be nudge nudge winking about

[naive pier]

ive almost completed the game and seen the epilogue at this point and yet i am an idiot baby sometimes i do not know what we are talking about

The other 2 hades boons didnt interest me either lol

[craggy totem]

If you say one of the others was Deep Dissent and you passed on that, then I will shed a silent little tear

[crude dragon]

Yeah, I assumed it was the actual Rivals fight

[craggy totem]

Then count me equally clueless with you, Nicole 😆 🫡

[crude dragon]

I'll know when she sees it

[naive pier]

One was Soul Urn, which I feel isn't as useful for one of my skill level against Chronos since he zips around the battlefield like a lightning bolt and I wouldn't make good use of it

The other was the "restore 150 health" one which in fairness is useful but I'm greedy

[craggy totem]

Oh, yeah, no, the urn thing is useless

[crude dragon]

Or rather, ||when she doesn't and loses two DDs to it||

[craggy totem]

ohh

[naive pier]

OH I LEARNED THAT LESSON

[craggy totem]

This aint her first rodeo is it

[naive pier]

I just need to remember the lesson that I have learned because I Have repeatedly forgotten and bullrushed him anyways

[crude dragon]

Okay, so you're now a knower

[naive pier]

how often does he do that trick anywho, I know right at the beginning but need to be ready for any others I've forgotten

[crude dragon]

Have fun and don't die to phase 3

[craggy totem]

Honestly nothing in the Rivals Chronos fight jumpscared me as hard as the end of the Rivals Typhon fight

Speaking for myself ofc

[crude dragon]

I think it's just the once

And you can make him cancel it like the normal fight by getting him to a health gate

[craggy totem]

Rivals 4 speedrun let's go

[still mantle]

Is anybody online right now?

No?

Okay.

[buoyant matrix]

yeah

i was in #video-games discussing state of play

[naive pier]

I BEAT HIM (AGAIN) THANK YOU ATHENA FOR ALL THREE OF THOSE DEATH DEFIANCES I USED
and thank you guys for convincing me to get athena

[still mantle]

Cool

[naive pier]

Just need to do 3 more Testaments of Night at this point and I'm done. >:3
-# and also a few chaos trials and also icarus to max affinity

[still mantle]

Why are you using death defiances

[still mantle]

I figured out an extremely specific scenario in which wide grin is optimal

[naive pier]

because i'm bad at video games🩷

[nova oar]

There's nothing wrong with dd's

[still mantle]

I guess so

[naive pier]

Also damn that was the run I was able to clear out every single last one of my Forget-me-nots.
Of which I forget-me-not-ed everything else in the game, so the last 2 possible things I'm missing are locked behind Icarus.

[still mantle]

But strength is optimal on lower fear

[nova oar]

I wouldn't say optimal

Just more damage, dd's are more safety

[naive pier]

why not use both Death and Strength arcanas, so Strenth activates when you're out of Death Defiances?

[nova oar]

There are pros and cons

[old veldt]

Cost opportunity

[nova oar]

Very bad idea

[naive pier]

what if you're Bad At Videogames™

(Like me)

[nova oar]

Still a very bad idea

You lose out on 4 grasp for what is gonna be 40-60 extra health (if you have 200-250 health at the end of a run)

And essentially does nothing for 99% of the run

[naive pier]

It does do nothing for 99% of the run but that last 1% if the run is the exact moment you are most likely to lose said run.

In other words, when it's at it's absolute most useful.

[nova oar]

You wouldn't need it if you used that 4 grasp for something useful

[nova oar]

4 grasp is a fair bit of grasp

Especially if you're using rerolls, having both massively nerfs your arcana

[crude dragon]

Even if you're running Fate's Whim, that's still giving up a lot of potential utility cards

[nova oar]

Mhm, that can and do help you out the whole run

[stuck minnow]

While you have no Death Defiance, you take -30%/-35%/-40%/-45% damage and deal +20%.

Also keep in mind this stacks with other forms of damage reduction

It tickles my brain when a previously double-digit damage attack is reduced to, like, 7

I literally beat Eris by stacking Strength and Weak effects and just facetanking her the whole fight

[wise wave]

Can we have 100% damage reduction?

[stuck minnow]

Dont think so

I'm pretty sure the reductions are multiplicative and not additive

Weak is definitely multiplicative because it directly reduces enemy attack damage, as opposed to resisting a portion of damage taken

[wise wave]

So how does weak effect interact with vow of pain?

[stuck minnow]

Dunno

Haven't gotten that far

I'd assume it simply reduces the increased damage

So like 30 is doubled at max to 60

Then it reduces that 60 by 30%

So about 20

That seems like it makes the most sense

[nova oar]

Same way it works with normal damage

[nova oar]

Yep

[nova oar]

No, damage reduction doesn't stack like that

Things like tough gain are also applied first

[naive pier]

is there a term for the opposite of a god run?
like.
A run where you've still won but it was the most unfun experience with the worst luck inaginable where none of the boons you were given mesh well together and you got basically nothing at all that entire run anyways

[crude dragon]

Trench run

[stuck minnow]

So flat reductions are applied first, then the percentage reductions

Honestly expected that to be the case

[red fox]

axe run

[stuck minnow]

Me when Winged Apprentice starts playing

[nova oar]

Yep

[pine delta]

I wish I could do a run with my friends playing too. Would get hectic though

[still mantle]

Axe is peak

[stuck minnow]

Hades multiplayer mode

Castle Crashers type beat

Zagreus and Melinoë going up Mount Olympus to absolutely obliterate Typhon

[nova oar]

Peak game mentioned

[merry echo]

I should try using it again

[nova oar]

Which aspect?

[merry echo]

Thanatos

I gave daggers a fair chance used all the aspects and it's still mid

[crude dragon]

I trust you know the tech about using the Special to animation cancel?

[merry echo]

Oh yeah i do

It doesnt let the last attack with the axe happen yes?

[short raft]

Found a easier way: Just dash behind him, works every time.

wait nvm its not working anymore?

[crude dragon]

Yeah, it'll reset the combo as well

[stuck minnow]

I need someone to draw Zag and Mel jojo posing together fr

[naive pier]

I think I'm gonna skip Great Chaos Above and Below. They just don't seem all too fun for my baby brain unless I grind out God Mode to max.

[jolly hound]

That time I had 64% boost from last gasp cause I used 8 defiances

[craggy totem]

A dog run 😆

(and this is why #h2-victory-boasting should also have a flip side of #h2-victory-roasting)

[jolly hound]

It happens every time I post one cause of my commitment to the hordes 3 bit

[naive pier]

I run Hordes 3 all the time? Is it particularly deadly?

It seems really fun to me, most of my favorite weapons and builds involve giant AOE giant damage.

[red fox]

If you use time 3 as well

And in surface

[still mantle]

What's last gasp?

[dry whale]

Best special boon for pan?

[jolly hound]

8 percent boost per defiance used (may be 10 now I’m not sure) from hades

[jolly hound]

Dionysus grape juice

[still mantle]

Bit? It's a bit? You dare betray the hordes 3 gang?

[jolly hound]

It’s not considered optimal before like 50 heat but idgaf

[still mantle]

Idk poseidon or hestia?

Also if your on surface be sure to pick up explosive intent from icarus

[crude dragon]

It's considered one of the most unfair Vows, since it causes all other enemy-buffing Vows to be however much worse

[dry whale]

Im currently underworld with hestia atk and poseidon cast

[jolly hound]

Poseidon is a good choice

[still mantle]

If you csn get demeter on something then hestia otherwise poseidon

[crude dragon]

Poseidon

Hestia also works, but Poseidon is the ideal

[still mantle]

Hestia depends on demeter duo or high rarity pyro technique to reach its full potential poseidon depends on king tide to reach its full potential

[crude dragon]

For Pan, you really don't need King Tide for it to shred enemies with its volleys

[still mantle]

Yeah but king tide really pushes it to its limits

[crude dragon]

The issue comes from all the wind-up and recovery on those volleys

[red fox]

If have reaper knife % boon can work

[jolly hound]

Deadass tho, Dionysus grape juice is so lit on pan o special

[still mantle]

Dancing knives is a nerf change my mind

[still mantle]

Yeah i had an insane run where typhon died in like, 15 volleys and I didn't even get grape juice😭

I've figured out a situation where wide grin is not only viable but optimal

Somehow

[crude dragon]

Depends on the Special

[still mantle]

How so?

[crude dragon]

Mass Blitz or Hitch application go brr

[still mantle]

Maybe

[jolly hound]

My first win was with wide grin skulls. I didn’t talk to chronos in the Erebus Oceanus gate and felt so based lol

[still mantle]

Basically, if you get fetching array and possessed array as your 2 normal hammers then get wide grin as experimental hammer then wide grin won't disrupt medeas flow

And you can do ridiculous amounts of damage

But that's stupid specific

[jolly hound]

Oh I was just spamming clockets lol

[still mantle]

Also wide grin works well on omega attack builds

Particularly persephone because mel doesn't get the damage bonus so the persephone levels are just free real estate

Oh hey every knives aspect except mel has been cleared on max fear, both regions

Is max fear just easier than max heat, or are people just able to experiment with more stuff because the boon choice remover thing was replaced by denial

[red fox]

Max heat is pure rng bs

[crude dragon]

The latter, not getting your run bricked because Approval Process said no makes getting viable runs way easier

Plus resetting your seed is easier than it was in Hades 1

[red fox]

And much more thing being viable other than fishing epic zeus special on first room

[still mantle]

Hm

[still mantle]

So now its more skill ceiling and a lot less bullshi

I wonder what the theoretical best speedrun time is

Has anybody made a TAS?

[nova oar]

Ik for hades 1 they got it down to 2-3 minutes with the rng manipulation

[timid vigil]

it can go lower for H2 probably considering there's a lot more free rooms/events

[crude dragon]

Shops being timer pauses alone should save a decent chunk of time

[naive pier]

people have consistently told me "get aspect if hera and aspect of zeus", the two most crowd cleary boongivers in the game, and then say "do not do the vows about crowds,"

there is discrepancy here .

[bitter stirrup]

So I'm in a very interesting situation right now

First time playing Rivals 4, 40f, I have 173 HP and 3 DDs going into Tartarus, I have Cherished Heirloom and Paid Dues

Do I sell Cherished Heirloom or not, and if not what's the best Rank 4 keepsake to use (don't say White Antler)

[timid vigil]

Hordes increases the amount of waves

So it takes longer to finish rooms anyway even if you have good mobbing dmg

And that's more opportunities to get hit and etc etc

It's just never worth it unless you're doing 50+

Hordes pain and grit (and void) are best avoided as much as possible

[timid vigil]

white antler Fang

[bitter stirrup]

Considering Knuckle Bones or Lion Fang, or selling Heirloom and just going Engraved Pin

[still mantle]

Me who used hordes 3 and grit 1 for my first 32f

[crude dragon]

Besides Antler (which would be 50% crit before Success Rate), Pin would heal you for 90 if you proc it

I believe Fang would also be up at 90% damage before decay kicks in?

[nova oar]

70%

[timid vigil]

I mean it's doable, it's just 32 anyway, but you're just making it harder than it should be

[bitter stirrup]

Yeah 70 so down to 45 at Chronos

[timid vigil]

And that's fine too, at the end of the day it's a matter of preference

[crude dragon]

Ah, it's 70%. Still would mean you're sitting at 45% global damage for Chronos

[bitter stirrup]

Guess I might as well take Fang and sell Paid Dues

[nova oar]

Yeah fang or pin are both valid

(Antler is the best choice here but oh well)

[timid vigil]

Why sell paid dues

[bitter stirrup]

I have 2 coin but tbh yeah getting like 200 coins in Tartarus gives me extra 60 health

[timid vigil]

It's not insane but like you don't need to buy anything anymore you can just use it a pseudo snow queen

[still mantle]

Yo guys my friend recently started collecting testaments and this is the 8f setup I recommended for him. Any thoughts?

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzMsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsNSwwLDAsMF0%3D

[bitter stirrup]

Does Deep Dissent remove the miniboss summon from Rivals 4 Chronos

Considering it or Life Tax

[still mantle]

(100% serious)

[still mantle]

I think so

Or actually it might on any given run cuz its removes 50% of the minions

So maybe it'll just get rid of some tempii

[nova oar]

Perfect

[nova oar]

It does yes, it also reduces the chlonos summons in p3

[bitter stirrup]

Died to R4 Phase 3, feel like I didn't dodge a single attack lol

[still mantle]

It really says something about the difficulty distribution that this 14f https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzUsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsMCw0LDAsMCwwLDAsNSwwLDAsMF0%3D

Is harder than this 40fhttps://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwwLDMsMywzLDIsNSwwLDAsMiwwLDYsMCwyLDIsMTJd

[still mantle]

43f*
https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwwLDYsMywzLDIsNSwwLDAsMiwwLDYsMCwyLDIsMTJd

[nova oar]

Yep

[jolly hound]

Deep dissent is the best hades boon once rivals 4 is in play and it isn’t close

Even my beloved gigaros dash

[timid vigil]

it's not that great on Typhon

[crude dragon]

It will

[jolly hound]

Yeah I meant for underworld

[bitter stirrup]

Died to Phase 3 again I think I just have to not try to beat him for the first time on 40f lmao

[jolly hound]

he fires exactly 12 blasts at the start, then don’t engage when clonos is out

[bitter stirrup]

After the Wringers part right

So basically at the start and after the Wringers, just dodge and wait for a tell that the mini phase is over

[jolly hound]

when there’s two chronoses out

also remember that in second phase that for the second red ring attack there’s a time bubble in the middle and if you fall for it you’re gonna either lose a defiance or just be dead if you use strength

[copper bison]

in fairness time and fear both take like, half of the 40f

really just goes to show how you can get to 40 off those alone

[red fox]

Remember time 3 frenzy 2 rival 4 is 24f

[nova oar]

Couple extra vows at 32 is free asf

[haughty idol]

Guys b4 i set my last foot onto h2 since i finally played it fully to 100% with each action figure etc. i have 1 really important question.

There are total of 2 benches in the crossroads where you can press on it to relax but mel won't do it at all even after all this time

why that option if it doesn't work or am i missing something?

[azure frigate]

lowk i genuinely wanna know aswell

[broken glen]

it's been a running joke since hades 1, which was started because the developers didn't want to have to animate and program Zagreus sitting on all of the different furniture. It's the same reason why only one of Cerberus' heads like to be pet- so they only have to animate the character petting one head!

Sleep is for the dead, anyways. And Hypnos.

[haughty idol]

Well that explains it then! 😂

[craggy totem]

Ironically, though, we do have a Mel sleep pose in game

[haughty idol]

Ever since i saw that bench i wanted to sit on it like atleast ONCE but oh well it is what it is xD

[craggy totem]

Albeit the stiffest possible "girl this is how you sleep? really?"

[broken glen]

I mean... she's more dead than Zagreus was, with the spectral arm.

[craggy totem]

But she had other stuff on her mind, it's fair

[haughty idol]

Thank you!

[broken glen]

Is she just like that or does her body seize up because her soul is being projected out of it (like rigor mortis)

[craggy totem]

I could believe either one tbh

[broken glen]

yeah Eris was right she needs to relax

[craggy totem]

It's not that she's inherently incapable or averse to it -- after all, she restored all those bits of the Crossroads for a reason.

She talks to her plants encouragingly, okay.

But clearrrrrly she needs to actually do the relaxing 😆

[buoyant matrix]

yeah for the second scythe set he instantly turns towards you again

[bitter stirrup]

Do I lose the armor if I sell Heavy Metal

[buoyant matrix]

yes

[short raft]

well then, attack remains undodgable for me then

[ashen hollow]

It's crazy how much better hel would be if the omega special came out like 10% faster

[nova oar]

Or if the oattack worked

[ashen hollow]

I find myself literally barely able to actually pull it off because of the horrendous charge time, not to mention the fact that you can't shoot another if one is already out

Also 50 is so much magick

[cunning laurel]

but the normal special is so good

[ashen hollow]

Also you just lose like half of your dps if you dash

And it's terrible against many enemies

Man this thing is just not it

[cunning laurel]

use autofire

[merry whale]

but then i'm not using omegas in the game about omegas!!!

[real scarab]

turn on autofire and hold both attack and special buttons, no need to use any omegas

[red fox]

Hel oatk just exist legally only

[ashen hollow]

Hel o attacks run are more meme than passion dash runs

[merry whale]

hel omega atk is prob the most useless mechanic rn

[real scarab]

Passion dash is pretty good in dash strike runs at least

Does anybody use nergal omega special? It seems as useless as Hel omega attack to me

[merry whale]

i hear it's mainly used to just plant somewhere while u do smth else

and also pokes berserk

[red fox]

It is better than hel oatk, at least it doesn't come out after 2 business day

[bitter stirrup]

In my one win vs Rivals 4 I think I was only able to dodge it by being far enough away

But you could probably dodge through the second scythe without touching the other two

[short raft]

dw for me it is still is

[bitter stirrup]

Yeah I just watched my video back I dodged it once by running far enough away and once because he was Dazed lmao

If I ever want to try that fight again I'm loading up an 18 fear run (Rivals + Frenzy) just to get to him and practice dodging everything first lol

[wise wave]

I only use it to active Bersek faster

[buoyant matrix]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxLL-9lLgo-Zw59_wlXVHfR7hlvUcmkgpd

dash through the first one then walk back in its path

of course easier said than done, but it's consistent

[bitter stirrup]

Oh is the midrange one always the first one

That makes sense then

[buoyant matrix]

https://youtu.be/25PG4XrhbnM?t=1618

another example

the mid range one's trajectory is similar (but not the exact same) to his scythe throws in p1 and p2, so you can practice by dashing through those as well

[agile plank]

for speed runs do you want vow of frenzy on

[nova oar]

Frenzy, and shadow for uw

[agile plank]

why shadow?

[nova oar]

Makes the shadow spiller miniboss faster

[agile plank]

ok gotcha

thanks

[buoyant matrix]

also use pain3 scars3 to get the adrenaline flowing trust 🙏

[agile plank]

how do seeds work

if i have a start with a chaos gate in the first room and an epic zeus special should i just restart until i get a good run?

[buoyant matrix]

first room will always be same, it changes after that every time

[torn wind]

Just got absolutely brutalized by the game deciding I needed 3 chambers in a row of those small automatons ALL WITH THE SUCK ABILITY

I had a really damn good build going and the game decided "nah beat this man over the head a million times while throwing him around the room"

[buoyant matrix]

fangs is just like that sometimes

[torn wind]

It truly is

[rare glacier]

Hi ^^

Excuse me but I think i have a problem with my game and I wont advice please.

I try to 100% achivement the game but I can't unlocked Mercy of the Beast and the Martyr for other boss form and I don"t know why

[nova oar]

Have you found all 5 familiars?

[rare glacier]

no I miss one

[nova oar]

Not sure what the martyr thing is

[nova oar]

Which ones have you got

[rare glacier]

I have the crow, cat, frog and dog

[torn wind]

Gale is on Olympus right?

[nova oar]

Ah, you're missing gale the polecat, she's in the olympus endshop

[torn wind]

Got a long way to go for 100% if you're still working on familiars

[nova oar]

Depends

[nova oar]

Some people do all other achievements before finding all the familiars

[torn wind]

Interesting. Was kinda just... a thing I did while doing runs like normal

[rare glacier]

olympus endshop? I never found it

after 75run

[nova oar]

Before prometheus

The shop before prometheus

[rare glacier]

Yes i see

I hope I can find it

[torn wind]

I didn't realize grabbing all the familiars in my first like 30 runs was uncommon

[nova oar]

Yeah most people miss the prerequisites for a few steps or just not notice the familiar at all

[torn wind]

Fair enough. I jumped on baking treats as often as I could usually

And constantly did nectar and such

FOR SOME REASON THOUGH Icarus keeps not showing up

[cunning laurel]

back then i kept forgetting about gale because i was busy thinking about upcoming fight

[torn wind]

Still no trust with him yet for some reason

He's exhausted all his crossroads dialogue

But keeps not saying anything when I run into him in thessaly

or just not showing up

[cursive nacelle]

unlucky :)

[dry whale]

I need tips for charon aspect on 50 fear

Its my last aspect i havent done 50f on

[nova oar]

Dash charge the special

And play with rerolls

[dry whale]

My issue is not gettin hit durin the charge up

Because of frenzy

All my hp loss is from that

[cunning laurel]

yea dashing while charging should help enough

[still mantle]

"Time and fear"😭

[still mantle]

at the crossroads?

[torn wind]

On runs

[still mantle]

Oh

[torn wind]

I only ever see him at the crossroads now

[still mantle]

That's just bad luck then

[torn wind]

Been like 10 runs no icarus

Yeah I know but it's MY bad luck so that stinks

[jolly hound]

Would be pretty stoked if Icarus showed up less in Thessaly ngl

That’s the one time I regret hordes 3

[copper bison]

oh I just noticed

brainfard I meant rivals

[old veldt]

What's the slowest aspect for speedrunning?

[jolly hound]

The one you’re worst at

RNG has way more to do with speedrun times than the weapon

[old veldt]

Well what are some that are known to be slower

[broken creek]

i think most every aspect has done a sub5

if not sub6

[torn wind]

Sub 5 meaning 4:59 or 5:59?

[broken creek]

4:59

[cunning laurel]

like below 5 so 4:xx

[old veldt]

Well they can't all be equal lol

[torn wind]

Yeah I know what sub 5 means but every now and then I see people say “sub-5” and get it mixed with “5-minute”

[broken creek]

sure theres differences like medea is probably the only thing that will ever sub4 and moros, charon, and medea iirc are the big3 speedrun aspects but like the differences between everything else is pretty moot

[craggy totem]

Listen.... if Mel coat can get 4:02....

[broken creek]

oh does it have a 4:02, sick

[craggy totem]

Very recently yeah

[broken creek]

hell yeah

[craggy totem]

Not sure if it's been verified for the website yet

It's so sick, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lrgF6P47pU

[broken creek]

but still, frenzy2 and shadow being the only vows means that after a certain point the weapon quality differences wont really matter just get the build going, good room luck, and everything can and will be quick

[old veldt]

What has a faster time, Anubis or Mel torch

[broken creek]

uhh torch by 2 seconds

4:45 v 4:47

[broken creek]

crazy to think if the first god wasnt heph itd be faster

shoutout jpom

[final saddle]

Frenzy 2 sounded a lot scarier than it actually was

[broken creek]

oh wait they reset partway through 🥀 god forbid they just upload the run itself and not the run before it too

[cunning laurel]

yea who knows

h1 habit maybe

[torn wind]

It’s easy fear once you get used to it

[final saddle]

After several runs of both on a high heat thing (I think I got Frenzy max, Time to 3, 2 Rivals, and a couple others) it feels pretty normal to me

[torn wind]

Honestly I just never turn off Frenzy 2 or else the muscle memory will get messed up

[final saddle]

Hardest bosses so far have been Prometheus and R Scylla

[torn wind]

Rivals Scylla is up there. Not quite at the level of rivals Chronos but still really hard. Rivals Prometheus isn’t too much harder than base.

But yeah Rivals Scylla is stimulus overload with how much stuff is going on

[old veldt]

Ok

[still mantle]

You guys have trouble with rivals scylla?

Rivals Eris is the hardest for me

[final saddle]

I haven’t fought R3 Prometheus, but that sounds decent

If he’s not much harder than base, I’m just scared at what it could be, what is the stupid chicken gonna grow giant and turn into a duo fight or something?

[torn wind]

Rivals Eris is honestly easy for me other than that she sometimes chooses to never stay still for more than 2 seconds

Sometimes she never flies away. Sometimes she’s never on the ground

[still mantle]

It is gonna turn into a duo fight 🙂

[torn wind]

It’s Theseus and Astereus all over again

Jk no spoilers

[still mantle]

It is gonna turn into a duo fight

[torn wind]

Rivals Eris on Frenzy 2 is a PITA

But more just because she test my patience not my skill

Both of which I apparently lack as of late

My senses have dulled from too much Cyberpunk

[still mantle]

What the lag

Oh my wifis back

[jolly hound]

My WiFi just crapped out too

[final saddle]

My first time fighting Rivals Eris was also my first time on Frenzy 2, the goal is to stick behind her at all times

[torn wind]

Discord lag I guess

[final saddle]

She’s too slow turning around to hit you effectively, just watch out for her knockback attack

[torn wind]

Yep. Her little gust thing doesn’t do any damage and you can get away from the orbs easily enough.

[final saddle]

Grab Hestia dash earlier if the fire + knockback is a big problem too

[torn wind]

She just likes to hang out in corners and all which is annoying but it’s not hard to side step her beams

If anything normal Eris is harder since she can actually turn around

And you can get melted if you turn your brain off for too long

[craggy totem]

Lmao yeah, I wonder it's force of habit from some hypothetical pre-Acceptance of Another Fate era

although wouldn't you need to die then...

[final saddle]

Ye, you walk a razor’s edge with regular Eris

Not that she’s hard either imo, she’s just so easy that if you get too complacent you can get punished for it really hard

[torn wind]

Rivals eris you might get hit with 35 damage and that’s it

Normal eris you get spread shot for 60 damage in a single burst cause you ate 3 shots

Then she KEEPS SHOOTING

[cunning laurel]

but its waaay harder for normal eris to hit you

[torn wind]

It’s the tradeoff yeah

Rivals Eris I feel runs a lot more, is harder to chase down, and has things like her knockback to get you off her. The orbs can also be a bit annoying if you don’t deal with them right away. Normal Eris though will just dome you if you don’t respect her tank turns lol

Functionally rivals eris is definitely harder

But I feel less worried about mistakes since she can’t do that much damage at once

[cunning laurel]

cmon her beam does 70

[craggy totem]

I mean, the map's smaller, idk if she's harder to chase down

[torn wind]

Meanwhile I had a normal eris earlier that spammed grenades 10 times in a row and never let me touch her

[torn wind]

I feel like she runs a lot more but that could just be placebo of me trying to chase her down with Nergal

Just would not even let me get to her before flying off again

[craggy totem]

Ah... Nergal. So that's why you didn't like the grenades haha

[torn wind]

Well both are a PITA on axe but yeah

[craggy totem]

When I get grenades on normal Eris I'm like "welp, I guess I can't do my full dps but I'll just stand here and shoot specials at her until she stops", but when you have no actual for-real ranged options...

[torn wind]

I usually dumpster her with blades cause the oattack teleport just hard counters her

“Oh you turned a bit? Nah I’m just behind you again. Oh you used grenades? I’ll teleport back in the moment they’re done”

But yeah Nergal is absolute pain against mobile enemies when you don’t have psychic whirlwind and all

[stuck minnow]

I hear people say Aspect of Mel axe is bad sometimes but COUNTERPOINT
clang! 3000!

[torn wind]

“HAMMER DOWN!!!”

Or are we thinking Berserk clang sound?

[stuck minnow]

Yes

[stuck minnow]

TOUCH.. DOWN!!

[wide wigeon]

does eris show up night 2 in tartarus?

[torn wind]

It's like the first 8 nights or something like that

[stuck minnow]

no she shows up if you get to oceanus too quickly

[wide wigeon]

no she shows up if you have more than 50% health in all regions

idk if she does on night 2 in tartarus tho

might as well do the 50% thing just in case

[mild arch]

Is there any thing that shows have you completed all incantations?

[craggy totem]

Not to my knowledge

Some incantations, like the Rivals Chronos pause incant, only appear under circumstances that many players may not activate anyway

~~i'm not sure if I have it lmao. I never pause during bossfights ~~

[final saddle]

First 8 runs of the save slot she shows up if you get too far (insert “TOO FAST TOO SOON” meme here), first 3ish days are Oceanus, next 3ish are Fields, and final 2 are Tartarus iirc

[median plinth]

I think if there are incantations still to do, some substances have the "needed for incantation" at the shop

[mild arch]

Whats a good way of earning alot of kudos

[jolly hound]

win a lot of runs

[craggy totem]

In seriousness: always take the weapon with grave thirst, since you can sell the gemstones.

[jolly hound]

get the gift of Gaia incantation to harvest stuff faster

I am serious, the more wins you get the more stuff you get to sell

[wide wigeon]

damn thanks yeah she showed up in fields

[wide wigeon]

do chaos runs lmao get gems

[final saddle]

Yeah, H2 has a ton of early resistance if you’re a good player, but you can push through it real fast

I can say as someone who was getting really mad going from dropping Silksong to this game that this one is worth pushing through

[buoyant matrix]

can show up in oceanus, fields and tart till night 3 (or 4)
can show up in fields and tart till night 7
can show up only in tart till night 10

[wide wigeon]

you dropped silksong?

[wide wigeon]

i almost beat gramps even with her blessing but I gotta try without it once maybe ill win fresh file

[buoyant matrix]

it starts at 20% and increases by 5% every encounter, up to 100%

if you get it in tart and head straight for gramps, he deals +45% damage

[wide wigeon]

I got it in fields i died to gramps 2nd phase

was that 100%?

[whole breach]

You will get him eventually!
-# ⓘ User is suspected to be a part of an online terrorist organization. Please report any suspicious activities to legal authorities here

[old veldt]

what r those circumstances?

[wide wigeon]

what the helly why am I getting a warning from you

[whole breach]

Calm down people it’s a joke!

Though have you ever beaten him?

[wide wigeon]

fbi.gov dude I hate the feds dont worry

[whole breach]

May god bless you.

[buoyant matrix]

fields is usually 7 encounters in total, with 5 from tart that's +80% on gramps

[wide wigeon]

not in fresh file im trying that one

my main save im done with everything except like 2 weapon upgrades

[whole breach]

Oh so you know what you are doing then.

[wide wigeon]

I attack the enemy and if they dont die i attack again

[whole breach]

Yup, that sounds about right. Give him max difficulty no hit run on a fresh file

[buoyant matrix]

you don't have the oath available on fresh file

but no hit is doable 🤑

[broken creek]

i wish we had a hell mode icl

doing h1 hell mode fresh file was fun

[buoyant matrix]

it was pointless, just made high heat very annoying without the modpack

[undone coral]

Im googling some info about the deities from the hidden aspects. Is the general theme death? Since yknow...underworld and stuff

[buoyant matrix]

deities related to the afterlife/underworld

[undone coral]

I guess Shiva also fits with Destruction

[broken creek]

ig but having the pact right out the gate was nice

[undone coral]

Real question, did the first game have a theme? Only aspect I remember is Lucifer

Idk if its also because of the underworld, or because of Zagreus being revellious

From what Im seeing thered just no theme

[buoyant matrix]

yeah first game was just mythological figures that fit the weapon

[craggy totem]

You need to try pausing during that fight iirc

[undone coral]

Guess at least it makes sense why Eris took the aspect of Lucifer for her rivals fight

Since yknow, rebels.with wings and all

[final saddle]

I did, felt too frustrating in the first act

It’s why Eris in H2 ticked me off so much

[wide wigeon]

thats sad but fair ig which part tho

[final saddle]

I got past the crow town

The combat and bosses feel just as good as before if not better but everything else just pushed me away so hard

[wide wigeon]

was this like the week of release? cause they nerfed a lot of it after that

[final saddle]

No benches, benches are trapped/cost resources, resources are split so you have to waste time grinding on your tools, and you have effectively half the health that you’re shown to have

[final saddle]

To be quite frank I just don’t have any interest in the game anymore

[wide wigeon]

yeah thats valid pharloom is a capitalism hellhole

[final saddle]

I heard that some places are worse, and I heard that there’s a spot that’s being praised because it has a very “screw you” approach to its design

[wide wigeon]

yeah you enter and the music is heavenly its an insane dichotomy for sure

lowk might be the best location ost in the whole game

[final saddle]

The swamp area?

[wide wigeon]

yeah damn you got spoiled ah well ig you wont be playing it anyway

[final saddle]

If the music is the only good part then I can still experience the best it has

[wide wigeon]

I never said the music was the only good part

bilewater is peak

[final saddle]

It sure doesn’t look peak

Silksong just ended up being a super mid game to me that I dropped for others, didn’t even hit top 5 for my goty

[wide wigeon]

its sooo good

[cunning laurel]

definitely not a fun area but it looks and sounds good

[final saddle]

Considering every other area looks and sounds good that’s a very low bar

[wide wigeon]

its the best one trust

[final saddle]

I will since it’s gonna take a big balance and map change to bring me back

[wide wigeon]

map change ain't happening lmao did you see the size of that thing

[final saddle]

By map change I just mean more benches or better placement of benches

[old veldt]

i liked it but it didnt have the same impact has hk

[calm flicker]

I like Silksong.

I'm able to replay it more than Hollow Knight.

[wide wigeon]

ahhh nah the benches are pretty well placed id say theres only 1 runback thats bad and thats in bilewater

[old veldt]

also perhaps a hot take but i felt like the hk bosses were considerably better

[calm flicker]

I wish the Sands of Karak bench were connected to the Blasted Steps.

[old veldt]

for whatever reason i feel the opposite even though i know it should be silksong cause of crests

[final saddle]

From what I’ve heard that tracks

[old veldt]

not cause ss bosses were annoying i just liked hk ones more

[wide wigeon]

it is

[final saddle]

It’s funny, tons of people say Silksong is better than HK, but then when they compare individual aspects of the two games HK usually wins out

[calm flicker]

I do like the Charm building in Hollow Knight. However, Hollow Knight's Charm building is less balanced than Silksong's Tool building, & I only like it more because there are fewer choices to weigh in and the raw fact that I'm a Beast Crest main.

[calm flicker]

I mean from the beginning.

[wide wigeon]

I go back and play hk now its damn slow asl compared to skong id have hornet gameplay over hk any day

[old veldt]

yeah charms arent really balanced theres no reason to not use strength shaman and quick slash

[final saddle]

Yeah but there’s so many arbitrary restrictions on Silksong’s builds

[calm flicker]

Likewise.

[calm flicker]

I wish Spider Strings were as mechanically convenient as Dream Wielder.

[wide wigeon]

like beginning of when you enter sands ?

[final saddle]

Can’t even have a consistent amount of a specific kind of charm on each build

[wide wigeon]

I wish there were more npcs i can invade with the needolin prolly can after the dlc let's see

[calm flicker]

That players who enter act 2 via Last Judge won't have such a miserable runback versus Phantom.

[calm flicker]

I don't understand.

[wide wigeon]

ohhhh yeah thats valid but after groal can you really say the last judge runback was bad

[final saddle]

Doesn’t each crest have a specific amount of charms you can put on it?

[torn wind]

Rivals hecate really pissing me off cause like one sec she's pretty easy and next I'm getting screwed over with the attacks she picks

[calm flicker]

Yes.

Last Judge's runback is bad.

[wide wigeon]

usually 2 of each color but some have more of the same color so you gotta pick

[final saddle]

Like, 3 combat charms, 2 whatever charms and 2 convenience charms

[old veldt]

I think they mean slot amount is different per crest

[final saddle]

Except some crests force more convenience charms instead of the useful ones

[torpid sky]

Just because Groal's was worse doesn't mean Last Judge's was good

Hey wait this isn't the Hollow Knight server I misclicked

[wide wigeon]

im standing on business last judge runback wasn't bad at all

[old veldt]

No it's really not

[torpid sky]

I have that right next to this one actually lol so

[old veldt]

Last judge runback is the most over exaggerated thing I've seen in gaming

[final saddle]

It’s probably more of a “straw that breaks the camel’s back” situation

Because there’s a bunch of minor but aggravating runbacks in Act 1 up to the boss, I haven’t even gotten to the boss and the runbacks were already getting annoying

[old veldt]

Sure, slightly annoying, but from what I heard you'd think there was like a gauntlet you had to do every time with insane platforming instead of a few enemies and easy jumps

[final saddle]

I know there’s a later boss whee you do have to do a gauntlet of tough enemies every time you fight the boss

[wide wigeon]

the annoying part is tc loves to trap hornet in elevators lmao

[old veldt]

Yeah, that one was pretty annoying

But after the first few times the gauntlet wasn't too bad

It's just in combination with tej already annoying boss

[final saddle]

Yeah it’s not any one thing that made me drop Silksong

It was all of them together all at once

[old veldt]

I didn't drop it cause overall it is a good game

Slightly annoying? Yeah, but that makes it more satisfying when you win

[final saddle]

I really tried to stick with it

But I just put it down one day and just never felt any want to touch it again

[craggy totem]

#silksong-discussion

dfghjfjdhjfhjghjdghf

[wide wigeon]

trying and failing is fine I hate it when other random folk slander it without even trying

[final saddle]

Yeah, anyway, Silksong’s frustrations was why I was getting frustrated at Hades 2 when I started lol

Especially when my first real win got snubbed by Eris’s boon

[old veldt]

What? I thought that's only fresh file

[final saddle]

I legit almost quit this game then and there lol

[wide wigeon]

I platinumed silksong and then died in my 100% steelsoul file so I started h2 lol

[final saddle]

It was, it was on run 7/8 for getting her to piss off

[old veldt]

Piece of advice, never play gd😭

[wide wigeon]

see I didnt even reach tartarus until like night 14 or 15 so I didnt eben know about eris showing up

[wide wigeon]

what's gd

[final saddle]

I think I hit Eris 6 or 7 out of the 8 times I could’ve gotten her to show up

[old veldt]

Geometry dash

[wide wigeon]

🥀💔

[old veldt]

It's not a bad game smh

[summer flax]

My newphew is asking who is the best defensive god, he says Zeus is the offensive god (his word: best for damage and offense), he want to know the equivalent for defensive

[craggy totem]

Heph prob

Him or Dem

[summer flax]

He says, but you really have to invest a lot of poms if you use heph

But he also says you are probably right

[craggy totem]

Not for defense you don't

[glossy shadow]

You need at least one attack for the duos tho!!!!

Neph is being a dweeb but I see his logic

[toxic whale]

still very early in the game so idk if this makes plot sense ultimately, don't tell me! but i just need to say...... Hades III should be Mel + Zag co-op!

[calm flicker]

Under the pretense I've unlocked that one blue upgrade that allows the Hex to adapt Poseidon/Hestia's Strike, does Dark Side manage to match up with the other Hexes?

[jolly hound]

not really, it’s super expensive to get it up so there’s only a few aspects it really makes sense on

and it won’t hit as fast as knives or coat which is probably what you’re using if you want pos/Hestia attack

The heartthrob thing can be fun if you have the duo that makes more

[compact sluice]

Seeing Silksong mentioned a few times above, my personal anecdote as someone who played Silksong and Hades II back to back. After a game like Silkong where 'the difficulty is the point' and I spent 45 hours getting chewed up, Hades II felt like a cool, soothing balm. I can see why both were in the GotY conversation, but for wildly different reasons.

[limpid oar]

people think Dem is good defensively until they get hit with frenzy 10 🔥

[calm flicker]

I continue to equip the bottom-most Hex, even Dark Side.

But if I'm only playing on 32 underworld Fear & 24 surface Fear, I guess I don't have to worry too much.

I don't even like it's purple upgrades that much.

However, it is rather satisfying to play Dark Side with Aphrodite's Gain.

[craggy totem]

lmao

[unkempt zodiac]

I concur play celeste instead

They're basically pretty much probably the same

[jolly hound]

i played silksong for like 10 hours, got tilted cause downward diagonal bounce jumps are super irritating, went back to hades, and that was 200 hours of hades time ago oops

[still mantle]

Go play more silksong

Learn 45

Or just get another crest

[jolly hound]

im not particularly enthusiastic about doing that

might hop back on helldivers with the big update all the boys are back

[sudden eagle]

Just beat underworld 40 fear! I won't go any further though, that's my max

[craggy totem]

I reckoned the same for the longest time but eventually caved and tried/did 40F on the Surface just to make it symmetrical lol

[sudden eagle]

But surface equivalent should be less, as 24 fear equals 32 in underworld

[craggy totem]

Naw it has to be 40F exactly so that the numbers look pretty in the Record Keeper's files :P

[tranquil wren]

how difficult would you say 40F is? I might try it after I get 32F all aspects

I'd definitely only be trying it with the cracked aspects though

[craggy totem]

For me personally, the breakdown was: 40F UW made me sweat but it was fine. 40F Surface I repeatedly died on over and over until I took a break and tried other stuff, like speedrunning UW with antler Tartarus, then came back and tried 40F SF again.

However, huge massive caveat is that I did both of my 40Fs with no Rivals.

[tranquil wren]

tbf I hate rivals hecate and rivals scylla so that seems a decent choice

for 32F surface I wouldn't mind rivals poly and eris though

[craggy totem]

At 40F, no Rivals means turning on almost every non-terrible vow, so mine looked like this: https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzMsMCwyLDYsMCwzLDIsNSwyLDIsMiwzLDYsMCwyLDIsMF0%3D

[sudden eagle]

Rivals Hecate was a real milestone depending on what boons you could get. But once I passed Hecate it was manageable.

[tranquil wren]

yeah hordes on surface would suck big time

[craggy totem]

I wasn't gonna touch that for sure haha. But I was Not a fan of the Menace 2 + Fangs 2 + Pain 2 + Scars 2 combo either

I would hazard a guess that this was a big factor in what killed me the first however many tries dfghjfjg

[sudden eagle]

I'm a slow cooker, I can't beat Erebus in 5 minutes so my spread was more like this : https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwyLDYsMCwzLDIsNSwwLDIsMiwzLDMsMCwyLDIsOF0=

[craggy totem]

The thing is, if you take R!Hec out, it suddenly becomes way easier to beat Erebus in 5 minutes /taps nose

But interesting to see you also took Forfeit on board! I know a lot of people are all on the "no Forfeit until higher Fear!!!" train

We're just built different ig

[jolly hound]

literally this is why I did all 40s lol

[sudden eagle]

I guess it depends on what weapon you use, it must be difficult with staff of daggers not to have boons on the first couple of rooms.

[craggy totem]

I'm not ultra familiar with 'em but I reckon at least Mel staff and Mel blades have their built in damage boosts, at least, so that can't be too bad

I did mine with Mel coat, which does not have built in damage boosts, but does boost my psychological well being 😆

Which aspect did you use for your 40F?

[sudden eagle]

Eos. Probably not the most efficient but I'm too reckless with Medea skull which I like more

[median plinth]

for me 40f was hard but doable once I had maxed arcana/keepsake/weapons

[jolly hound]

Hordes and rivals 4, all of em

[median plinth]

I honestly feel like without rivals 4 the game feels so much easier

[jolly hound]

Correct. I wanna feel like I earned it

and I don’t wanna screw with my economy

or deal with green eyeball thing

[median plinth]

oh I'm totally agreeing

plus at 40 you have to take some pretty tough vows if you don't take rivals 4

[craggy totem]

But the game is so much easier if you don't, so surely it evens out :P

[median plinth]

I agree, that is amusing

I think I feel like there are some types of difficulty where you're introducing new (harder) elements that make it an interesting puzzle (rivals 4), but other difficulty is just turning a numbers knob that feels more annoying

[jolly hound]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator?vows=WzEsMCwyLDYsMywzLDIsNSwxLDAsMiwzLDYsMCwyLDIsMTJd here’s what I did for 50

[sudden eagle]

That's nuts

[jolly hound]

Hermes travel deal and Chrolex still holds up at 50 lol

[median plinth]

I mean, at 50 you kind of have to take a bunch of tough ones anyway. I wouldn't do it personally but it's hard to say it's bad

[jolly hound]

oh I’m embracing being the guy who takes off meta vows

If I can handle rivals chronos I can handle the other stuff

Gaslight yourself, it makes you better at hades

[still mantle]

No grit😭

[median plinth]

I think I took 2 scars and maxed debt instead of max hordes for my first 50 clear

[still mantle]

A couple levels of grit and hordes is worse than pain 2 and scars 2?

[still mantle]

Hordes goes on at like 24 for me

[craggy totem]

Look, if I'm gonna fail a run, I'd rather fail it fast than time out and have to endure that indignity

[still mantle]

Its just a speed adjustment

[median plinth]

I'm pretty sure my highest clear so far lacked hordes and grit

though I've been slamming my head against 62 for a few weeks now

[jolly hound]

Yea I kept timing out on Hecate with it

Time to get better

[craggy totem]

Like, talk of boring numbers tweaks, y'know

[jolly hound]

a fellow citizen of culture I see

[craggy totem]

At least Pain and Scars is, like, "play smarter u dumdum" (five seconds later, I headbutt Mel into a random crowd of enemies for no apparent reason)

[median plinth]

wait a minute, are you watching my games?

[still mantle]

I play really recklessly and ruthlessly so I am getting faster every day (and thus more able to accommodate hordes and grit) but I am still taking like 200 damage from chronos/typhon

[still mantle]

Me trying to do radiant bosses in hollow knight but I keep dying because im trying to get the maximum possible number of hits in per attack

Rip chat

Chat so dead if I delete this in 5 minutes no one will know I kinda fw shiva dash strike

[nova oar]

😒

[still mantle]

Oh no

[nova oar]

You've angered the shiva main

[still mantle]

Shiva dash strike is good tho

[nova oar]

No it isn't

There's a reason the 67f clear didn't use it at all

[still mantle]

Unless I get exhaust riser of launcher frame I prefer Shiva dash strike to regular coat

[nova oar]

That's wild

It does less damage, takes longer, and the hammer just doesn't make it any better

And only hits once

[still mantle]

Less damage?

It does 8 more

[still mantle]

Also should I be a masochist and do a momus run?

Speaking of wild things

Nah

[nova oar]

Less dps*

[old veldt]

Momus? You mean budget mel?

[still mantle]

Yeah

Only thing its good for is night arcana

Actually

[broken glen]

I wish Momus was better

[still mantle]

Kts not even budget since it takes nightmare to upgrade whereas mel just takes random stuff

[broken glen]

powercreep...

[still mantle]

EPIC FLASH FRY

Ok time to get exceptional talen-

AHEM rerolls

A-HEM

crap

[broken glen]

I feel like I get legendaries more on FW then on rerolls 💀

[still mantle]

Aaaaaand the hammer didn't give me aetheric moonburst OR dual moonshot

[glacial light]

Normal dash strike hits 3 time shiva does +8 damage from the first strike of the dash strike iirc

[storm glen]

whats the base dmg of the normla dash attack even

[glacial light]

God let me explain this in proper English instead of chicken scratch

Iirc Mel dash strike is 15 per hit and shiva is 23-25

[storm glen]

15 + 15 + 15 > 25

easy

[still mantle]

Shiva does 64?

Wait i have strength

[glacial light]

So -30%

[still mantle]

Well for me mels doing 56 and shivas doing 64

[glacial light]

Damn so I didn't not remember correct

Assuming Mel = 50 and shiva = 55

[still mantle]

Apollo-

YES

I GOT EXCEPTIPNAL TAKENT FINALLY

And kicked eris's ass

[glacial light]

Oooo a fellow surface player

[still mantle]

295,000 damage from the ospecial

Damn

[naive moth]

how do we think about fear usually? i’ve heard to avoid the third row

[craggy totem]

The third row isn't that bad, where'd you hear that

[broken creek]

everything is lowkey free until you put on hoards/grit/pain/scars3

and void obviously

everything else is easy to handle once you get used to it

[craggy totem]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "easy" (as you might imagine, high Fear players come from a rather specific angle :P), but most things are kinda up to you and your playstyle/preference/strengths and weaknesses

[naive moth]

say, hypothetically, i wanted 8 fear for the first Night thing

[broken creek]

just do frenzy2 and add on some timer and debt

or like timer2/3, debt2, shadow, hubris2

[craggy totem]

What time are you usually getting on your runs?

[storm glen]

billionaires vs working class

[naive moth]

like 25ish but with wide variance (18-30)

time2 would work well methinks

[storm glen]

i dont get how high fear players are this active in the main discord and still have the most warped perception of difficulty ever like are we trolling guys

[craggy totem]

Yeah, Time 2 would work well! What weapons/aspects do you like to play?

[naive moth]

i’m gonna try time2 rivals1 frenzy1 and see how it goes

[naive moth]

i usually go for whatever has the red glow thing

[broken creek]

i wouldnt say its that warped, like 90% of the vows are only difficult because of grit hoards and timer

[craggy totem]

Good luck! And you can always tweak future runs based on how this one feels 👍

[craggy totem]

Naw bruh that's warped

[broken creek]

like denial/forfeit are only issues because its build restriction which is only a big problem once you touch hoards/grit

[naive moth]

rn i’ve got a mel ygnium hera happening

[broken creek]

and like wards is a joke on everything but axe, return is obnoxious but fine, debt is nothing cuz of chrolex, rivals/frenzy is a muscle memory diff

[storm glen]

"muscle memory diff" thats called being good at video games bro

like ??? where are qe

[broken creek]

fangs is only an issue when you put on grit/hoards so now theres like 50 guys

[calm flicker]

Fecund me. I went through an entire region without an Olympian-summoning keepsake even triggering.

[craggy totem]

Come join the Whimmers 🫡

[broken creek]

saying that like learning boss moves isnt normal

[naive moth]

ok i either need to get good or turn one of these things off because i burnt two health bars on hecate

[crude dragon]

Well, are you used to Unrivaled Hecate?

[naive moth]

yes

[craggy totem]

If you are accustomed to Rivals Hec, what do you think messed you up this time?

[naive moth]

wait no i’m not used to rivals1

i’m used to un-rivals hecate

[craggy totem]

Oh! Okay, gotcha.

In that case, you now have a choice before you.

[naive moth]

didn’t realize that was their name

[naive moth]

i think i’m just gonna have to git gud lol

[crude dragon]

Yeah, that's the official name for the Rivals version of the bosses

[crude dragon]

Good choice, have fun with the next Rivals tier

[craggy totem]

You can either take off the other vows and just learn the basics of the fight, or you can keep vows like Frenzy that you intend to keep playing with and maybe supplement by watching some videos

[naive moth]

at this point i’m calling it for the night because i took an unholy amount of damage to a normal encounter, so i think i’m just not playing good today

will resume task Soon™

[calm flicker]

Does Apollo's Flourish even do anything for non-Shiva's special? I only picked it because it was purple & I needed an air token.

[jolly hound]

It’s best in class on most axe o specials, it’s better than you think it is on Medea, staff o specials like it, it’s not great for knives or torches specials and it’s not great on any coat but shiva

[craggy totem]

You mean in terms of AOE? Cos the damage boost seems like a gimme in terms of "what it does"

[calm flicker]

Well... I meant just non-Shiva's Xinth. I very much see the increased damage size with Apollo's Strike/Flourish.

Damage... area...?

Effectiveness range...?

AoE radius.

[broken creek]

the size increase is on a per weapon basis iirc

and shiva just gets a massive increase in the aoe that almost nothing else gets

[calm flicker]

Yes. The FANDOM wiki say +20%, +40%, etc.

[broken creek]

99% of the time theres better options than apollo though, shiva loves it but most other things would perfer hera or even ares for grievous

[calm flicker]

And that most especially includes Xinth's non-Shiva's special, eh?

...?

[broken creek]

sorry twin im a smidgen busy, but yeah non shiva coat special doesnt want apollo in the slightest its either hitch or blitz

[short raft]

Does Cardion gain recovers extra mana with Looming Ignition?

[calm flicker]

Cool profile pic.

[short raft]

ty!

[calm flicker]

Hestia's Gain specifies it regenerates Magick per instance of landed non- attack & special. I don't see that it would. Unless your talking about Possessed Array, and those explosions are considered attacks.

[undone sierra]

man i'm never gonna get the ||zag|| keepsake 💀

[calm flicker]

If the enemy was damaged by Looming Ignition's explosion, I would guess it would indeed trigger Hestia's Gain, but I doubt landing the shell & immediately landing the explosion would trigger it twice.

[bitter stirrup]

Same lol I only ever see infernal contracts when I'm on timer 3 and taking it seriously

And always on like first or second shop when my build is still ass

[undone sierra]

no i just can't beat him. I walked up with full hp and 2 dds and died anyhow on a decent ||morrigan|| build

[craggy totem]

Not much range on that

That fight is easiest when you have the range to just kite it out and snipe

[undone sierra]

if you hold a O attack and release with good timing you can teleport behind him as he tries to attack you

[craggy totem]

How's that goin' for ya :P

[undone sierra]

I got it like 2/3 times

he was at like 1/5th when i died

[craggy totem]

Horseshoes and hand grenades, etc

[undone sierra]

in irl roguelikes you only get to keep practicing when you win

so like idk. seems like a mid comparison to me

[rough lintel]

skill issue?

OH the reason why u can't kill zag is coz ur using death instead of strength

that's why

[calm flicker]

I most often equip Hera's Strike/Flourish, but it's more because I so fiercely covet Hera's Infusion.

[craggy totem]

Tag your spoilers

[rough lintel]

run strength and u'll beat him

[craggy totem]

But also, blood triad can't get buffed anyway

[rough lintel]

yea it can

with the hammer

[craggy totem]

By Strength, I mean

[undone sierra]

wow you're fun

[rough lintel]

strength > death hehe

just don't die

[calm flicker]

I too find Strength more fun than Death.

[crude dragon]

Hello

[undone sierra]

yeah i tried it at the start and beat chronos once and then when i swapped to death i beat chronos 3 times in the next 5 runs so like

[calm flicker]

That's kind of the big difference between the two. Death can power through bosses, while Strength is more endurant--especially when it doesn't need 200 gold to replenish lost .

[broken glen]

Strength is better once you’re confident, but death gives you more wiggle room

[calm flicker]

Strength is better if the player's invested high heat in regular enemy encounters.
Death is better is the player's invested high heat in region vosses.

[broken glen]

Heat

[naive pier]

been repeatedly doing overworld runs, using Hammer keepsake for Thessaly, and purposefully dying to Eris repeatedly for Icarus to get more affinity.

I think I only have 3 hearts left now, I see the arrow with hearts on his page.
Can I just die in room 1 repeatedly now and check to see if he spawns in the Crossroads?

[calm flicker]

Huh. Been a while since I made that mistake.

[craggy totem]

I don't think you need to be using the hammer keepsake at all. It doesn't increase his spawn chance or anything, ftr.

[calm flicker]

It doesn't. I hadn't imagined killing my runs just to fish out advancing Icarus' conversations, however.

[naive pier]

"Icarus is guaranteed to show up in the crossroads if you have lost 3 underworld runs in a row" is a statement that I think may be true as I have been repeatedly SD'ing in room 1 of Erebus, and he has been showing up every single run at this point.

To future people reading this, you still are required to see his dialogue in Thessaly/Olympus to progress his Heart Level. Just pick up a daedalus hammer in your runs, as I believe that is a requirement for a comversation. (I reccommend dying to Eris repeatedly.)

After a point Icarus will be fine to just SD in erebus however but it's very late into his affinity.

Remove Death/Strength arcana, and de-equip your pet. I don't think Artemis' keepsake is required for quick SD's but i don't wanna bother mixing around my arcana cards too much to grind deaths lol

[calm flicker]

Nor I. I just had fun with 24 surface fear across the aspects I liked.

[naive pier]

ah, cheeseburgers, i gotta wait 32 more minutes for this stupid potion to brew.
Guess I'll grind god mode deaths and attempt greater chaos trials after I reach 80.

[naive pier]

dangit i'm a lesbian but i would feel bad for not letting icarus.
hold a person for once.🫠

[nova oar]

Real asf

[naive pier]

And with Icarus at max hearts and the final 2 pieces of furniture I was missing collected, I have officially done...almost everything that there is possibly to do in Hades II.

• All relationships to max hearts
• All incantations cast
• All Minor Prophecies fulfilled
• All Testaments enacted
• All 3 Statues from Skelemius collected
• All keepsakes and arcana upgraded to max
• Every song purchased
• Every weapon at Rank V
• Every Familiar at max strength and all costumes unlocked
• Zagreus' Fan recruited to crossroad
• All tools at rank II
• Every single possible thing buildable in the renewal project built.
• 27 types of fish caught

I'm not going to get to the max rank with the spirit mixer.

The last thing I plan on doing are the final 2 chaos trials I haven't done yet, Greater Above and Greater Below.

And after that the only thing I might not have completed is getting all the full entries for all the enemies in the game, but I don't think that counts so I'm. Not gonna care if i've maxed that out or not.

[cunning laurel]

you could get all 48 62f clears

[jolly hound]

Mel is bi tho also Icarus really earned it

[naive pier]

No. 🙂

[cunning laurel]

but you wanted to do everything possible

[naive pier]

icarus also made me go kill myself 20 times to speed up his affinity

[naive pier]

Everything Possible*

-# *That Is Not Something A Masochist Would Do

[nova oar]

Then you've not really done 100% but if you're happy then fine

[naive pier]

do you get a tangible reward, like a statue of melinoe, or a little glowy star on the file select screen

Or is it just that little blurb that says "Max fear 62" under each weapon

[cunning laurel]

just in the crossroads stat guy

[naive pier]

either way i'm not doing it, that's like "Did you grind for max lives in a Mario game before you turned off the game for good"

[nova oar]

Boring

[naive pier]

I MIGHT NOT HAVE A LIFE BUT AT LEAST I HAVE A LIFE,,

[cunning laurel]

62 is not even masochism levels cmon

[nova oar]

I have a life and i've done 62, it's not even the actual hard content

[keen bridge]

I play on a switch 2

Hades 2 is the only game that does this weird thing when I click it on the Home Screen

Screen goes off for a sec and then it comes back looking all washed up

Anyone know what I’m talking

[still mantle]

Do every aspect on 67f surface and underworld no god mode

[nova oar]

#h2-tech-support

[still mantle]

Not only is 62 not masochism, but with god mode it wouldn't even be that hard😭

If i had high death god mode i could probably go clear 62 right now

[craggy totem]

Good luck! May Chaos smile upon you and withhold the might of their wrath.

[lapis helm]

Oh wow

[lapis helm]

Tbh, this is actually impressive. Kudos

[still mantle]

Also You probably have less of a life for doing all the other completionist stuff than you would if you just turned off god mode and went for fear pbs

[still mantle]

A lot of kudos was most likely needed for the renovations, not sure if she needs more🤣

[lapis helm]

One more wouldnt hurt right?

[naive pier]

which is why i reaffirmed i dont have a life lol

[lapis helm]

Gaming is a way to live actually, So u do have a life

[naive pier]

The only useful thing left I can use materials on is kudos, and the only thing I can use kudos on is the spirit mixer, and i am not completing the spirit mixer because my not-life is too lively to not life

something something "hades has a lot of characters who have lost their lives but are living which is synonymous with this entire conversation"

[nova oar]

It's all just grinding, you only ever need to do 32f

[lapis helm]

I find grinding abit boring tbh, cuz i'm usually tired during my gaming sessions😂💔

[plain berry]

Are MacOS users ever going to get a fix for starting the game? It's been 3 months now

[nova oar]

Uh probably not

[naive pier]

the real reason i'm not going to continue hades II for "super ultimate completion" or whatever is my backlog.
my girlfriend got me galaxy 1 and 2 remake for my birthday last month and i've been itching to replay the games from my childhood. i've seen basically everything i want to see in hades ii at this point, and "completed" as much as i felt was fun (for me) to do🩷

[lapis helm]

Galaxy on fire?

[naive pier]

Mario galaxy 1 and 2 remake lol

[tribal wharf]

I’m playing on Mac M1, is there some big potential issue I’m unaware of?

[merry echo]

what is up

I gave aspect of thanatos a try

Best zorophet aspect imo

Btw fighting ||zagreus|| while maxed out pain sure is a pain

[nova oar]

Nergal and charon are stronger

[merry echo]

Im yet to use aspect of charon

[crude dragon]

True enlightenment is realizing that all 4 axespects are great

[naive pier]

There's a chaos trial that gives you the gist of it. I was a Thanatos-Only gal for 90% of my runs until I've been enlightened by that trial.

[torpid sky]

some of those trials were really silly things that ended up being real fun

[naive pier]

I learned today that if you have enough damage prevention, Chronos' one shot attack does not, in fact, one shot you.

[torpid sky]

Yup

[nova oar]

You can also just skip it

[glacial light]

I don't think he's effected by any but frenzy

[buoyant matrix]

he is in fact very much affected by everything

he even has a dialogue if you pump enough fear into him

[glacial light]

Really I swear he did 50 to me even without fear