h2-discussion

[tranquil wren]

lmao

[brave gate]

150 damage is very survivable btw

[broken creek]

You cant just watch a vid and no hit, thats not how it works 😭

[jolly hound]

Go do that then man

[hollow crest]

and that's what im saying??? im disgusted by myself for not beating a boss

[hollow crest]

i did survive, i was doing arachne outfit challenge

[cunning laurel]

and youre calling the boss badly designed when you are just bad at it

its definitely hard but its fair

[broken creek]

Don't get me wrong im scyllas #1 hater shes ended so many 67 runs for me but like shes fair for the most part

[brave gate]

https://imgur.com/a/QheUrZo

[proper seal]

[broken creek]

Just dont play at 67 and shes pretty fair, although she does take a lot of practice

[hollow crest]

no, it's not about me being bad, it's about a boss design being terrible. first of all there should never be more than 1 enemy, if there is it's already 99% likely to be a bad boss design. that has almost never worked out in any game ever

[broken creek]

Twin i think youre just bad at it

Blaming skill on boss design is certainly a choice

[proper seal]

Hades 1 had 1 boss room with 2 people, Theseus and Asterius What?

[hollow crest]

and scylla is like 11 enemies + charybdis all spamming bs at you. i was running in circles, not staying in 1 place, keeping track of drums girl and dodging tentacles - it wasn't enough

[brave gate]

Dude this is one of the most whiniest, insecure thing I've witnessed in awhile. You're literally saying that you losing to a boss must be bad game design cause you're a god gamer

[hollow crest]

i just elaborated on why my skill doesn't change the poor design

[broken creek]

We're you actually doing damage or just running in circles

[cunning laurel]

you gotta record an attempt so we can help

[broken creek]

Did you watch my hitless scylla i sent earlier

[hollow crest]

i'm not a dumbass

[devout cairn]

you didnt really elaborate you just said it's bad

[hollow crest]

i was but people keep pinging and blaming me so i can't really lol

[brave gate]

Also, why are you complaining about projectile spam when you play Terraria

[hollow crest]

wrong, read my messages again

[proper seal]

[hollow crest]

because terraria doesn't force you to fight with 11 bosses at the same time. there is really 1 real duo boss which is exo mechs. twins barely count

[cunning laurel]

there is really not that much going on in scylla

[devout cairn]

yeah you are just saying multiple enemies in a boss fight is bad because they make have to keep track of more stuff? lol

[hollow crest]

projectiles in itself is not bad, i love bullet hells, but when it's done properly. not like scylla 2. from every single angle + aoe spawns on top of you every 2 seconds + 2 girls are chasing you

[brave gate]

"11 bosses" dude Roxy or one tentacle isn't a boss. It's only a boss as a collective

[craggy totem]

first of all there should never be more than 1 enemy, if there is it's already 99% likely to be a bad boss design
I think this is a statement which is liable to get pushback

[brave gate]

You know you can kill stuff right

[devout cairn]

that's too diplomatic...

[hollow crest]

you're gonna keep defending it because i'm chatting in a hades 2 discussion channel with fanboys. i love the game too, and it's nearly perfect, but scylla 2 is undeniably a terrible terrible boss. scylla 1 is just bad, but it's fine

[craggy totem]

Y'all got the outrage down, I just wanted to be clear and neutral

[cunning laurel]

you are undeniably a terrible terrible player

[devout cairn]

boo

[brave gate]

Or maybe, we can aknowledge when our skills are lacking in an area instead of claming our losses are only due to bad game design

[hollow crest]

my skill is not a concern, i'm talking from a design perspective, not my skill, quit mentioning it

[brave gate]

You keep mentioning it

[cunning laurel]

if it wasnt a question of skill why are some people way better at it and dont take 150 damage

[broken creek]

unless youre vyt with their gazillion 67s i dont think you have much merit to talk about a boss design with skill not as a factor

[hollow crest]

yeah you're straight up not listening to anything i say

[brave gate]

☝️

[broken creek]

its a boss that forces you to be aware and clear space

and if you arent, youll get hit and die, its a fine boss until you play 67 and even then its very much a skill diff

[brave gate]

You can also kill one tentacle in a few seconds. Doesn't take long to clear them out

[hollow crest]

i get your point, but i've already explained what divides a good bullet hell from a bad one

[broken creek]

yeah bait scylla to roxy by running around her at round start or back up to the bottom right tentacle to get scylla stuck, then clear the far right tentacle then either work your way down and around or up to roxy

[craggy totem]

I hated Charybdis and I still hate Charybdis and I probably will never stop hating Charybdis, and also I specifically hate Rivals and did all my Fear PBs with Rivals completely turned off, but after watching the high Fear folks do the Scylla fight, I actually was able to clear Charybdis feature R!Scylla without too much fuss

[broken creek]

then after that you need to be playing more towards the center of the arena so you dont get clipped by roxy as easily(since her waves start at top or bottom) then be ready to just get tf out when things get hectic

[tropic ravine]

I mean I sort of see your point for a second boss it’s supposed to be kinda easier than others like Cerberus , it’s considered on of the hardest but you just gotta learn

[brave gate]

Yeah ones that you're good at vs ones that you're bad at

[craggy totem]

TBH, and this is just gut feeling, but it felt like playing it the way that the high Fear folks do it makes it less of a bullet hell?

[broken creek]

like its one thing when a game like nightreign exists for example, where its fundamentally designed around 3 people so stuff like balancers is rough for solo, thats a fine design flaw thats baked into the game sans skill, but stuff like scylla is fr just be better 😭

[tropic ravine]

Speaking of bullet hells I’ve been playing enter the gungeon a bit is it worth it to keep playing

[hollow crest]

i'm not saying it should be easy. i'm a #1 fan of fair and good difficulty in videogames, scylla is just not. every other boss is fine

typhon rivals is weird too, but i've only fought him twice, can't say objectively

[broken creek]

i liked it a lot! i played it when the gunslinger got added as a character and unlocked him then called it done

[tropic ravine]

What’s your problems with it then

[broken creek]

its very very good and they are developing a 2nd one(as skeptical to it as i am) so like most roguelikes play until youre satisfied

[cunning laurel]

too many enemies ig

[hollow crest]

it's an amazing game. a lot of variety, very pleasant to combine guns/items into synergies, and just overall shooting. amazing game + very cool endgame bosses/areas

[cunning laurel]

nah lich got too much goin on, terrible design

[tropic ravine]

Only bad thing is the beginning is a bit boring

For me atleast

[devout cairn]

I only have 90 hours on it but it was fun, I think it falls into that category of roguelite that if you don't get strong items at the start it tends to get kind of boring later in the run

[hollow crest]

amazing design and completely fair. should i start talking about your skill too?? because that boss is nohittable with any build. every attack is fair and they barely ever overlap

[devout cairn]

like even when i was dodging everything, going into the 4th level with some pea shooters just wasnt fun

[broken creek]

the way you flipped your tone the second it was a game youre good at lmfao

[cunning laurel]

im kidding but i could say the same about scylla, every attack is fair

[broken creek]

proves our point exactly

[craggy totem]

Hot take: at low to medium Fear, I would rather fight Rivals Scylla than Rivals Hecate

Scylla can't punish my mistakes by TURNING ME INTO A SHEEP

[broken creek]

hecate is the worlds biggest timer sink its crazy

shes not even hard she just takes forever

[timid vigil]

i started hating hecate only after 50

[craggy totem]

It makes me take psychological damage

[timid vigil]

the real issue is EREBUS GIVES ME NOTHING DUDE

i'm here hoping artificer hits into a boon

[craggy totem]

Did u mean: max mana

[hollow crest]

that doesn't change anything, and im NOT TALKING ABOUT SKILL. i'm talking about objective design. if boss attacks don't overlap - 1 attack 1 dodge is a balanced design. all it requires is timings and patience. scylla doesn't require that, it's a spam from every single direction. at least make it come from top, or from bottom. that's why scylla 1 is fine. because it doesn't come from 360 degrees around you, that's not a good design. keep defending it and covering it up with my "skill issue" instead of admitting that your favorite game is not perfect

[cunning laurel]

too bad every boon from artificer in erebus is hermes

[devout cairn]

at that fear level I'll take rivals hecate everytime

[cunning laurel]

hate seeing that guy

[broken creek]

i dont like scylla either bro, again shes a very frustrating boss that punishes you not being hyper aware and its very easy for things to overlap and become a struggle, however theres a difference between "i got hit once because bad patters" vs "im taking minimum 200 damage"

[brave gate]

I didn't go to game design school, but I don't think they teach that 360 circle = bad

[tropic ravine]

Maybe the fates want to see your own skill lol

I might try that actually

[broken creek]

you cannot brute force scylla, you have to play the game she makes you play which inherently i will give that hades is not a game designed for bullet hell

however it is a game that skillfully plays around what its capable of and makes a bullet hell fight very manageable

[tropic ravine]

It’s not a bullet hell it’s just hell

[brave gate]

Maybe don't ram your face into Charybdis when dodging Jetty idk

[broken creek]

you need to play slow, play in the center, kill things quickly to make space, abuse stuff like lovers and messenger if it gets too dicey

theres so many ways to play around scylla that stem from how you use your resources and how you control melinoe, scylla is frustrating but shes frustrating in the way that shes a boss thats fundamentally different from the rest of the game which isnt bad

elden ring melenia fight is also a prime example, she isnt a bad boss(minus waterfowl), she just changes the way you fundamentally have to approach her since shes a boss that fills a different space within the game

[devout cairn]

this feels like souls games brainrot, anyone member when you didn't have a free get-out-of-jail card with your all powerful dodge roll and actually had to position yourself properly to not get caught in horrible situations where dodges and dashes will NOT save you? 👴

[broken creek]

and changing how the player has to approach something isnt bad as long as its implemented well and intuitively

[hollow crest]

yeah and that is exactly my point. 9 enemies that shoot simultaneously will never create a pattern. it's random. and that is poor game design. i'm gonna take an elden ring boss as example - Messmer, Maliketh, Godfrey, Bayle, Midra - all of them are difficult, but fair. there's a pattern. if you learn the timing to a move - you dodge it. your skill gets rewarded. same thing happens in Hades with bosses like Eris, Chronos, Prometheus. because that is good game design. Scylla isn't. you can't learn the pattern, there is no exact answer to a given situation - that's why, as YOU said - you can take 1-2 small hits or takke 200 damage

[broken creek]

there... there is a pattern with scylla

you just dont know it ig

[rustic basin]

I will say that for me, the worst part about Rivals Scylla is that it is magnitudes harder when Charybdis gets featured compared to anyone else lol

[broken creek]

they all start the exact same way, the tentacles all have the same rhythm and the attack changes on prox, jetty you just have to hear for when shes gonna dash at you which is again an awareness check

[hollow crest]

in later FromSoft games spacing is a bigger part of combat than ever, so no idea what you're talking about

[brave gate]

Why does the idea of "no pattern" instantly mean it's bad design? Learning to adapt in a fight, reaction time, and critical thinking are all skills a game can test.

[devout cairn]

played them all and nope, I can still have no proper positioning and just dodge out of 95% of attacks

[rustic basin]

Also we’re talking about things changing in a roguelike. That’s kinda the point

[broken creek]

there is a pattern with scylla, charybdis sends out balls on a pretty clear cycle and rhythm that you can keep an eye out for

just because you cant identify the pattern doesnt mean there isnt one

[hollow crest]

yes, and? that doesn't contradict my point, nor prove anything. that is true. spacing is still extremely important as it allows for advanced gameplay like no roll strategies or speaking lightly - more attack opportunities. but that's what makes a game good - if you know the timings you can dodge and atom bomb, it's all muscle memory, precision, pattern recognition and discipline.

[broken creek]

yeah and how do you think people clear 62s consistently

[cunning laurel]

so learn to position against scylla 💔

[rustic basin]

(JPom)

[broken creek]

literally everything youre saying applies to scylla 😭

just because you dont get how to apply the idea for the boss doesnt mean its bad, it just means theres a gap in your knowledge and application

[craggy totem]

I didn't say I was gonna post a cold take ;P

[broken creek]

i hate the risen fights in late mh rise, they arent bad fights im just bad at late game mh rise where its 99% countering

doesnt mean theyre bad, im just bad

[devout cairn]

yeah but isn't it nice when there exists game where you can't just dodge out of nukes and positioning is more important than just knowing the right timing like some rythm game?

[rustic basin]

Also yeh, there not being an “exact answer” to all of the Scylla fight can be awful, but only if you make a bad decision. That’s kinda what I like about it even though it feels bad in the moment to get punished for a decision I made two dashes back lol

[broken creek]

or like how i used to think absrad was hard until you learn its just radiance but with extra steps so you stop trying to faceroll it and dodge it properly and it works fine

[hollow crest]

i see, ok, even tho i haven't noticed it myself i might be wrong about no pattern. still, a boss shouldn't consist of 9 enemies positioned all around the arena, shooting at the same time from different directions. besides, dodge patterns should be visible and comprehensible for a new player, every other boss is readable and understandable, not this nonsense spam, so that's also something i wanna point out. you definitely know more about the game than i do, so i'll have to trust you on this

[hollow crest]

attacks overlap for up to 3 attacks at the same time. so yeah it IS a very hard boss. saying to ddark is not an argument, spamming a button doesn't make you a good player. it's a poorly executed boss, contrary to her regular form. they could've done much better

[tropic ravine]

On the other hand it IS the vow of rivals

If there’s a pattern just learn it

[broken creek]

have you done radiant hall of gods, cuz i have, like 3 times

[hollow crest]

twice yeah

[tropic ravine]

You purposefully turn it on

[broken creek]

absrad is really consistent once you get used to it and god forbid ddark is a tool that you can use

[hollow crest]

check my steam idk

[cunning laurel]

does dodge rolling in ds not count as spamming a button

[devout cairn]

I'll give you this, rivals scylla's dash could use a better tell

[broken creek]

truuuuue if you dont strafe literally everything, play at lvl0, bare hands no equipment with stage4 cancer you ddidnt beat the game

[hollow crest]

the boss is forcing you to use an iframe braindead button, which isn't nice from a design perspective. bosses should not force you to use a specific skill. being difficult is not enough, because sometimes it can be artificial

[rustic basin]

I think we’re missing there’s gonna be an inherent sort of entropy when there’s four different enemies with their own patterns. Like, Godskin Duo technically has a set of patterns but you couldn’t pay me to go back in that arena without a real good reason lol

[broken creek]

godskin and like every elden ring duo fight is bad cuz the ai is dogass and inconsistent

[cunning laurel]

this is getting unbelievable

[hollow crest]

foreskin duo is a terrible boss design which are barely synchronized. it IS a bad boss indeed

[brave gate]

Admit you're just bad at the game

[rustic basin]

This is fair

[broken creek]

which is crazy because demon princes exist and theyre the best duo boss ever like period but then they made valiant gargs

[hollow crest]

yes, that's what i said earlier. it almost never works out. even such praise O&S are not a good boss from a design perspective. lore wise amazing tho

[rustic basin]

I’m just playing devil’s advocate because I get where he’s coming from but I also get how to beat the boss (most of the time. I also do just lose all DDs to her every now and then)

[devout cairn]

im trying to remember a single good duo boss fight in elden ring and you are right, they are all trash

[hollow crest]

that is a fact

[hollow crest]

they are, unfortunately

[still mantle]

I just joined chat why is some guy crashing out about rivals scylla

[broken creek]

cuz she is a pretty rough boss all things considered

i wouldnt say shes poorly designed but the skill gap for it is pretty huge

[devout cairn]

dani has an idea of objectively good boss design and she doesn't fit that

[hollow crest]

it's not my idea, im talking about objective boss design. i just don't deny facts

[broken creek]

like my personal boss list does go scylla > chronos > prom > typhon > everything else

i do think shes the hardest fight in the game but shes very learnable and once you get used to it shes pretty honest and consistent

[hollow crest]

i'd say prometheus is the best designed boss in the game, remove bird tho. amazing boss

[devout cairn]

i mean if there are people who disagree with you it kinda of is your idea

unless you picked it up from someone else then it is not

[broken creek]

the first phase of the fight might as well be scripted, then p2 whoever the feature is on can throw a wrench in but it doesnt change the fact that scylla is a punishing boss that requires being careful that for like literally the rest of the game you dont have to do

[brave gate]

The bird barely does anything

[broken creek]

he eats my lovers 🥀

thats what he does

[timid vigil]

he messes up snuffed candle 🥀

well, heracles too

lowkey if youre tweaking on rivals scylla, rivals chronos p2 will make you mad

[hollow crest]

yeah, a nuance, but that bird shouldn't be there still. all she does is attack at the same time while dashing across the entire arena. all while prom keeps attacking you. forcing you to run around for a few seconds isn't really cool

[timid vigil]

visual clarity non existant

[broken creek]

i hate p2 rivals gramps

[brave gate]

It attacks a couple of times at the start dude

[hollow crest]

more like p3 lol. i've only fought it once so i can't say for a fact. it was really difficult tho

[timid vigil]

p3 is easier than p2 100%

[hollow crest]

yeah, doesn't make it better

[brave gate]

You're complaining at an attack that happens 2-3 times

[broken creek]

p3 is fine sometimes he just decides to kill you but p2 has like no visual clarity

like i love sgg but my god does it feel like they just forgot to put some things in

like restricting what gramps can do during a slowdown

[timid vigil]

p3 its just pray he doesnt decide to time slow triple scythe you multiple times

[hollow crest]

does it justify it? even if it was 1 attack for 1 second, it does exist and can and should be judged if done poorly

[brave gate]

Yes, the attack is completely justified. Just because a boos fight has more than 1 entity doesn't mean it's an affront against God.

You keep talking about "object" game design but where tf is it coming from? It's evidently clear that you just don't like more than one thing being on screen at a time, so you claim it's bad design.

[hollow crest]

i've already explained it in detail prior, i'm tired of repeating myself. go read it

[brave gate]

Yeah the deatil is you explaining how your brain is unable to compute 2 enemies at once which you equate to bad game design

[still mantle]

"Objective"

[hollow crest]

multiple enemies have to be synchronized. You know an attack - dodge it with timing, positioning and precision and still get hit because there is a second enemy - that's not a good boss design. and it only applies to bosses, because enemies, at least in this game are partially justifiable due to being stunlocked by attacks, so even when there are several of them it's not a problem. armor, on the other hand - can make some situations completely impossible to not take damage in, that's also not a good thing.

look, i'm not here to blatantly complain about something being bad, i wanna get to the truth. and i'm not saying i am always correct. some experinced guy explained to me that there can be an optimal fighting strategy for scylla, and i'm not gonna deny it, i'm not an elitist. not like i want it to be this way, but the execution of this boss just wasn't done well, unfortunately.

[broken creek]

i do feel like scylla is a good example of like more casual players hate it but higher level players think its fine

[viral creek]

agree as a casual

[broken creek]

and its a weird line to walk as a boss cuz like, majority of players wont get to a point with scylla where its hitless or close to

[hollow crest]

yes, because as a veteran player you get used to it

[brave gate]

multiple enemies have to be synchronized. You know an attack - dodge it with timing, positioning and precision and still get hit because there is a second enemy - that's not a good boss design.

Maybe don't dodge with one attack in mind but with the whole environment in mind

[broken creek]

although i dont think thats merit to fully discredit a boss, like for melenia as an example again, experienced players wont care for waterfowl cuz they know how to bait it around, but for like 99% of the playerbase waterfowl is a fight ending move

[devout cairn]

waterfowl is garbage design and I know how to dodge it

[broken creek]

lmao truuuue

lets disrupt the entire flow of the fight for a single move that has no intuitive indication to dodge it

[hollow crest]

i'm gonna make an example with elden ring, since it has some amazingly well designed bosses. there are many, which for a new player are understandable. there are clear patterns, and opportunities for attack, even if not from the first try - you'll see them. PCR is not that great of a boss design in this regard, as for a casual player he is extremely difficult. but that is ok, he is the final boss of the DLC, to which you get after ~150 hours of gameplay. so i believe it is justifiable to not be clear to a new player

[tiny moss]

I bought hades 2

Now i can play it 5 months later

[hollow crest]

waterfowl in itself isn't AS terrible, it's just not good. malenia overall is a poorly designed boss. fyi she was made as a boss for sekiro, scrapped at the end. Elden Ring and Sekiro were developed at the same time

[tribal wharf]

I just know my boy Sekiro would’ve cooked Fraudlenia, Blade of Micookedla

[broken creek]

i do think scylla is a lot for more casual players, which isnt bad, especially since rivals is the issue, in which is optional difficulty, has a kinda big req to unlock which would inherently require more playtime, after learning more of the game for 62+ i can say scylla is a fine boss that can be learned but is frustrating. its not like gramps for example where he is super honest until he decides to just kill you

and a frustrating boss isnt necessarily poor design

[tribal wharf]

What’s the complaint, Scylla?

Like normal Scylla or VoR Scylla?

[old veldt]

i never really had an issue with scylla

[broken creek]

rivals scylla being a bit of a clustertruck of a fight

[hollow crest]

yeah i've heard that chronos rivals is just terrible multiple times. i only fought him once, so can't say for a fact

[viral creek]

its more consistently terrible

[broken creek]

hes super fun actually! very honest and is a boss you have to respect, however sometimes he just decides to kill you with some patters he can have in p3

[viral creek]

also hes a lot more random than other bosses

But it does usually feel pretty rewarding as a final boss

[broken creek]

hes not random really imo its pretty clear what he can do depending on the position

[viral creek]

I guess

I just dont like the damage caps on chronos

[broken creek]

p1 is very predictable, p2 is scripted until the 2nd half in which is still pretty predictable just a lot to manage, and p3 is also pretty predictable untli he slows you down in which you run a roulette wheel to see if you live

but also "see if you live" is more me speaking in like 62+ strength + antler stuff

which isnt a good metric to view the entire game

[viral creek]

you run strength on 62 👍

[tribal wharf]

After getting done dirty by Rivals Chronos in Phase 2 once I’ve actually managed to beat him all the (few) times since
Though sometimes rather close and also my builds by that point are probably just strong

[broken creek]

strength, no lovers, and antler r4 for 67 practice although the more i think about it i think im done with the game lol

my 67 pb is gramps 3 different times and i just dont have the energy to try to get there again atm

[viral creek]

try surface 😂

[broken creek]

god no 🥀

i do not wanna have to deal with thessaly and olympus

[viral creek]

maybe ill try 62 at some point

but I only pb at 40

[broken creek]

i think 62 is pretty fun, anything past that and you start running into the game kinda becoming rng hell

[hollow crest]

how is mount peak not worse? i always felt like that's the most bs area of the game

[broken creek]

not as bad as h1 mind you but like, good luck getting a run past erebus on 67

[viral creek]

there's like 5 enemies for half the rooms

[broken creek]

at that point on surface you get absurdly strong so a lot of things die in like 2 seconds

[viral creek]

And you just have a better build

[broken creek]

plus the rooms themselves only have like 3 guys even on hoards 3 and the boss rooms go down pretty quick since they have like 2 moves each

[hollow crest]

yeah but most of the time the amount of aoe i do makes the room completely unreadable, so i just ball. sometimes taking hits. that's why sceurity system is the best boon in the game imo

[viral creek]

trusty is just better

[old veldt]

im assuming 62 is 67 but u get arcana

[viral creek]

for sane people yes

[hollow crest]

yeah i've felt that too. but if you don't, it's worse than any other

[broken creek]

twins gets murdered if you have hera, spawn has 2 moves so you shouldnt be getting hit, tail has like 3 moves, eye stands in one spot so it gets nuked

[old veldt]

twins just get murdered anyway lmao

[broken creek]

true

[viral creek]

twins are just a dps test

[devout cairn]

i love twins they cant help to just be nuked

[viral creek]

actually like all of them are lol

[broken creek]

summit at its core is a very simple area ive never struggled with it even at 65f clear

thessaly and olympus are whats evil

cuz like yes please game give me a boat the size of a new york studio apartment and put 20 turrets and 15 harpies in it

[hollow crest]

i love ephyra as a concept. you just walk into a city and choose what you need. probably the best area in the game. yeah

[viral creek]

Thessaly gives me one boons and 90 max magic 🥀

[broken creek]

ephyra is what makes surface fun for some people

[hollow crest]

it's probably horrible with hordes 2 or 3, whatever's maximum

[broken creek]

since you can get stacked pretty quick compared to erebus where youre lucky to leave with more than like 1 boon

[broken creek]

yeah thessaly and olympus are actual hell once you get to like 55+ fear

[hollow crest]

i love surface. there's no scylla, no MOURNING FIELDS

[broken creek]

but hey the bosses are easier than UW at least

[hollow crest]

• every area is gorgeous unlike underworld

[viral creek]

What did the fields do 😭

[crude dragon]

Because the Summit doesn't have Auto-Trackers

[broken creek]

if summit had olympus turrets id never play it ever

[hollow crest]

that's true. on frenzy 2 i struggle if not having an OP build

[broken creek]

i already dont but like still id extra dont play it

[hollow crest]

surface is just so much more fun for me. i dislike olympus enemies and typhon tho, they make it less fun for me

[viral creek]

its not fun

[hollow crest]

typhon is such a sponge, no matter my build i can never kill him in less than 1-2 mins

[viral creek]

you just get a better build

[viral creek]

Try 80% antler

most fun 20 seconds of my life

[hollow crest]

i never take antler because i play with 0 revives

[viral creek]

same

Its honestly not that bad

[hollow crest]

idk. i can't imagine typhon with less than 200 hp. sometimes i do typhon hitless. sometimes i take 250 damage. no idea what's wrong. i clearly understand his patterns

[viral creek]

I only take it though if I have a lot of damage or a really good percent

[old veldt]

why is it not worth it use omega cast on circe?

[viral creek]

I cant do rivals typhon hitless

[old veldt]

oops i didnt mean to ping sorry

i just wanted to say that

[hollow crest]

rivals typhon is arguably worse than scylla rivals. i've only seen him twice, beat him once, can't say for sure

[broken creek]

mostly because you end up having to take more time and start using mana

and circe is at its best when you play it like mel staff with 2 casts

like you could play Ocast stuff and have to get a gain and want Ocast boons, or you could just get zeus cast and everything dies as is

more of an investment v payout kinda argument

[hollow crest]

zeus cast feels like the best one in the game

[broken creek]

for damage assuming you have hera yeah

demeter/aphro are amazing for crowd control and actually give a curse though so its all situational

[crude dragon]

Just get other forms of free hits

[hollow crest]

demeter barely deals any damage. i only want damage from my cast, idc about utility honestly

[old veldt]

i dont really see the usage for kings/queens ransom. i normally have zeus and hera cores when i use them and it often gives up origination. id only use if i have 1 or 2 of their boons but then just use another god no?

[crude dragon]

It's good single-target, but the lack of a curse is pretty noticeable

[hollow crest]

bu i love taking aphrodite with some aoe weapon yea

[broken creek]

yeah the ransoms are pretty bait if you ask me

especially at higher fears

althoug lower fears kings ransom scales up like a mf and its super funny

or queens with hereditary bane is hilarious since it scales up to making hitch >100% super easily

[jolly hound]

it’s a funny concept that isn’t really much after jpom is unlocked, but 150 damage storn rings are funny. Just very rarely feels worth it to give up (probably) origination and a shot at the Hera legendary

[still mantle]

Joy and whimsy

A level 86 boon

[brave gate]

I only take King’s Ransom if I only have all the random, superfluous Hera boons. Like her dash, Bridal Glow, her infusion, etc.

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwwLDYsMCwzLDAsNSwyLDIsMiwzLDYsMCwyLDIsMTJd
This was my vow setup for 45 fear

I’m at the point where I’m forced to add the annoying and hard stuff if I want to go higher 😞

Maybe I’ll add Hordes 1, Grit 1, Wards 1, and Return 2 to get to 50?

[broken creek]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMSwyLDYsMCwzLDIsNSwyLDIsMiwzLDYsMCwyLDIsMTJd
id do this

[median plinth]

I took kings ransom on my supay run and got a lvl 20 special and static shock and double strike, but it removed my hitch dash and it turns out my hitch dash was critical to my room clear

[brave gate]

For some weapons definitely. However, I like to rotate between all the different weapons and aspect (except Shiva) to keep things fun for me. So, I wanna hold off on Wards 2 for now

[brave gate]

Lmao. Weren’t able to get Static Shock?

Oops I can’t read

But how did static shock not deal with crowds?

[broken creek]

using wards2 will be a lot less painful than upping hoards and grit

plus as long as you arent playing axe every weapon has pretty sound ways to get around it

[brave gate]

True

[median plinth]

I have no idea why it didn't work. All of a sudden I was taking a lot of damage and died to sirens

actually now that I think about it, it was probably lvl 16, not lvl 20

[brave gate]

@broken creek Does hordes increase the number of adds the bosses spawn?

[broken creek]

no

[brave gate]

That’s good

[broken creek]

boss spawns are always static

[brave gate]

Yeah I didn’t know if hordes 3 Rivals Typhoon summoned 8 Warden eggs or something lmao

[broken creek]

iirc miniboss rooms, end bosses, and god trials are unaffected by hoards

which is another reason god trials are an insta take especially if theyre later in the area

[brave gate]

God trials and Warden rooms being unaffected is surprising

[broken creek]

wardens make sense since they dont have the same threat value thingy as normal rooms since its just kill the boss

[old veldt]

i thought you avoid god trials

[broken creek]

trials yeah that was surprising to me

[old veldt]

maybe im too used to speedrunning h1 smh

[brave gate]

What’s the time limit on a Vow of Return soul? Maybe knowing the specific number will make me hate it less lol

[broken creek]

in h1 yeah but in h2 not many of them are problematic to deal with and getting 2 boons in say erebus is everything

[old veldt]

for speedrunning you still avoid though right

[broken creek]

i think like ~7 seconds?? at least thats what it feels like

[brave gate]

They’re also useful for getting elements

[broken creek]

probably yeah

unless youre desperate for a boon

but for high fear its an auto take unless its next to a useful npc

[broken creek]

i think its more like 5 actually

[old veldt]

what npcs arent useful

narcissus?

[brave gate]

I know for a fact that I’m never touching Forfeit and Scars 3

[broken creek]

yeah

or like sometimes i take a trial room over a midshop depending on my money situation and what gods are there

everything is in context so =3=

[old veldt]

shrue

[brave gate]

I only take Narcissus if I’m afraid of time, am desperate or a DD, or broke lol

[broken creek]

yeah lol and most of the time with r2 you chrolex anyway so midshop is wayyy more value

narc is just such a mediocre npc 🥀 hes like sisyphus in h1 where hes great early for resources but lacks any real run impact

[old veldt]

chrolex?

[brave gate]

You can Chrolex stuff Narcissus gives you Tbf

[brave gate]

Time Piece. Chronos keepsake

[broken creek]

truuuue

i wish you could chrolex the stardust or element stuff lol

sometimes its the only worthwhile take and even then its whatever

[brave gate]

Reminds me that it’s stupid how the Gaia auto-collect incantation does work on the region 4 fear altar stuff

Honestly, if they replaced 1-2 of Narcissus’ worst gifts and replaced them with elemental gifts, I’d be happy. It can be hard to get 8 of one element especially with Vow of Denial

[honest tulip]

Just had one of the worst hecate fights

Im aspect of Moros and took the Chaos curse of no omega moves 💀 (I didn't realize the boss was one room after)

[brave gate]

Same

[median plinth]

I always want a dd, because I always lose 1 or 2 to hecate

[honest tulip]

Wow Hestia Godsent absolutely DESCIMATES ||Charybdis during Scylla 2||

[jolly hound]

lol was talking about this earlier

[brave gate]

The difference between phase 3 Chronos with Blinding Rush vs phase 3 Chronos without Blinding Rush is wild

Almost max rank

At Unseen 3

[nova oar]

A sprint boon/sprint arcana is almost needed to not take damage

[brave gate]

That's why I like when I can get a sprint boon from Chaos

[honest tulip]

dang lost my Moros run

[craggy totem]

For a hot second I thought you meant like a core sprint boon and I was like "what would that even look like"

[honest tulip]

The difference between being able to spam Ranged damage on Chronos during his Phase 2 is insane

I just had to sit there in the circle for that entire time doing nothing 😭😭

[calm flicker]

Oh wow. I just discovered the player cannot bind aim to the right thumbstick. It seems to be hard-coded to the left thumbstick. Is that why Channelling ranged Casts always have the tradeoff of disabling movement?

That's why gamepad users have such trouble with ranged Casts?

[nova oar]

I don't, but i've also learned to be fairly quick with them

[median plinth]

if you release the thumbstick entirely you can use the "autoaim" functionality

[honest tulip]

BRUH denizen of the deep was no fewer than 20 varieties????

[median plinth]

aiming is pretty annoying though

[honest tulip]

I thought it was ALL the fish

Why didn't Posiden give me the dialogue until after I got the Voidskate 😭

[nova oar]

It took me a while to get all the fish

[honest tulip]

Also just lost to Zag with Moros and I've decided I don't like this weapon

[glass jacinth]

Moros works best when you weave attacks and specials

[cunning laurel]

cmon zag is hard dont write off moros

[honest tulip]

I have 3 runs with this thing and lost all of them

I wasn't even doing that much fear 😭

[devout cairn]

how are you playing it

you just pop Omega special, hold attack and everything dies quickly

zeus on special for good measure

[honest tulip]

thats what I been doing and they aren't

I had much better sucess with say circie

[devout cairn]

circe is good too

[craggy totem]

Circe is probably easier to get off the ground than Moros

Fully geared up Moros feels like it might be safer though?

[cunning laurel]

yea is it upgraded to 5

[red fox]

Circe need good cast boon, moros need good gain boon

[honest tulip]

I think so far all the secret unlocks I've used like once or twice and I won on like their first time

[craggy totem]

Oh I meant like the per-run build, but that's true about levels too

[cunning laurel]

do you have sorceress and persistence on?

[honest tulip]

Probably not

[craggy totem]

Probably not what

[honest tulip]

meant to reply to this 😭

[cunning laurel]

idk if it even matters, not sure how it upgrades

[craggy totem]

Circe upgrades leash damage

[cunning laurel]

having sorceress and persistence is important though

[craggy totem]

Moros upgrades the explosion damage, which seems more impactful

[devout cairn]

i think the explosions do more damage

[red fox]

Circe has 90% of power at level 1 already

[median plinth]

circe w/o leash seems fine outside wards

[jolly hound]

It still has the leash, upgrades add damage but for ward popping it’s th same

[honest tulip]

Hecate is so annoying she broke my dress and I had to fight 2/3ds of her with no mana cause no regain

[jolly hound]

For Moros, the omega takes like 10 percent longer than you think it does. It’s an adjustment but you’ll get it

and maybe take Hecuba

[nova oar]

I feel like doing a fun run, any suggestions?

[honest tulip]

Air quality demeter cast :3

[still mantle]

Supay air quality build

With static shock

[nova oar]

Supay dem Zeus air quality build it is

[cunning laurel]

on 65

[nova oar]

40*

[honest tulip]

Hm supay does get a dash boost but I feel like Airquality would override that wouldn't it

[jolly hound]

Hordes 3

[still mantle]

But air quality is great on it

Because everything sucks by default

[honest tulip]

Yeah that's what I'm saying the boost isn't really needed

[jolly hound]

On the dash, maybe, but if you have a boon that activates on hit (Zeus, Hestia, Poseidon), air quality will bring the 10/20 damage pokes from the special up to 50, in addition to status effects

[honest tulip]

cause airquality already takes it way above the

[still mantle]

So just have a zoos and a demeter

[nova oar]

I'm gonna do hordes 3, grit 3, rivals 4

[jolly hound]

Hell yeah

Wish there was hordes 5

[still mantle]

Return 2

[jolly hound]

He said fun run

[nova oar]

You go too far

[jolly hound]

Supay takes a while to get up to speed but by third zone dash prob isn’t doing that much for ya anyway

[still mantle]

Side note, should I not be using return at like 20 fear?

[still mantle]

Static shock build

With zoos attack or speciak

[nova oar]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMywwLDYsMywwLDAsNSwyLDEsMCwwLDYsMCwyLDAsMTJd

This the setup

[still mantle]

No menace?

Unitonically the most free fear

[honest tulip]

Isn't supay getting a dash damage bonus?

[still mantle]

Yes

[honest tulip]

what I'm saying is if it's demeter dash with airquality then that bonus isn't doing anything lol

[still mantle]

But for this build it doesnt matter

Romantic spark

[cunning laurel]

40% on an 8 damage gust is useless anyways

[still mantle]

And zoos attack

[nova oar]

I'm doing 40f it doesn't matter

[jolly hound]

Yeah, but the dash is only useful for ward breaking and status anyway, doesn’t matter much

[cunning laurel]

or if its a different dash air quality isnt really helping

[still mantle]

Does anybody have a good buildmaker website?

[jolly hound]

but it is helping a ton on the attack and special

and arctic gale on the cast

[cunning laurel]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/

[nova oar]

Might have to play rerolls

[honest tulip]

If I get apollo legenday on moros will that kill me?

[cunning laurel]

doesn't sound like a fun run

[jolly hound]

Maybe your mana bar

Hope you have a jpommed lucid gain

[cunning laurel]

nah born

[honest tulip]

Well I do have lucid gain heroic level 4

Apollow is just the last Legendary I need for fates

so I was marking it

[red fox]

It is a lot of dmg but also a lot of magick spent

[still mantle]

Like for making boon setups

[honest tulip]

but then I thought

"Maybe this isn't the best idea"

[brave gate]

Wait, how does Phalanx Shot work with Eos?

[jolly hound]

do it then

[rough lintel]

aq only works with charon axe

but when it does it's so op, it's literally a nuke

esp if u can get the duo boon apollo/demeter

[cunning laurel]

i don't know anything like that, there's mods to choose that stuff and try it in the range tho

[still mantle]

Im a console player😭

Also

[cunning laurel]

that duo hits for more than 50 tho

[still mantle]

The main purpose would be to be able to post an ideal build as a link

[rough lintel]

i normally get apollo,demeter,ares cast, apollo cast

[rough lintel]

yea but u can spam so many of them

[rough lintel]

if u can get static shock or geiser spout it's gg

[brave gate]

https://hades2builder.vercel.app/#eyJhdHRhY2tUcmFpdCI6Ik5vbmUiLCJzcGVjaWFsVHJhaXQiOiJOb25lIiwiY2FzdFRyYWl0IjoiTm9uZSIsInNwcmludFRyYWl0IjoiTm9uZSIsImdhaW5UcmFpdCI6Ik5vbmUiLCJrZWVwc2FrZSI6Ik5vbmUiLCJoZXgiOiJOb25lIiwid2VhcG9uIjoiV2l0Y2gnc19TdGFmZiIsImFzcGVjdCI6Ik1lbGlub+siLCJmYW1pbGlhciI6Ik5vbmUiLCJBcnRlbWlzVHJhaXQiOiJBcnRlbWlzLU5vbmUiLCJBcmFjaG5lVHJhaXQiOiJOb25lIiwiSGFkZXNUcmFpdCI6Ik5vbmUiLCJNZWRlYVRyYWl0IjoiTm9uZSIsIkNpcmNlVHJhaXQiOiJOb25lIiwiSWNhcnVzVHJhaXQiOiJOb25lIiwiY2hvc2VuVHJhaXRzIjpbXX0=
@still mantle Found one

No idea if it's up to date

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/1dn3s9w/hades_2_build_creator_tool/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[still mantle]

Text wall of a link😭

Supay isn't even there😭

[rough lintel]

the .vercel.app is killing me

[cunning laurel]

yea it says ea patch 4

[rough lintel]

a domain is so cheap T-T

ain't no way they can't just buy a hade2builder.com domain or smthing

[honest tulip]

Can't tell if I'm finally doing damage with moros because it's moros or if I'm finaly doing damage because I've got Static Airquality and Lightning Lance for long range

I also have a Heroic Nova strike

[rough lintel]

link doesn't have ares

[still mantle]

Yeah... no😭

It sucks

[rough lintel]

hazard boom > aspect of eris

hazard boom > shiva

[still mantle]

Shiva doesn't have hazard boom

Also

[rough lintel]

does hazard boom stacks with super nova

hazard boom + super nova = profit

[jolly hound]

youre just getting used to it. The special omega is slower than other torches that throws people off. Heroic Apollo attack doesn’t hurt either

if you can get Zeus on the special, you’ll feel way better about it

[honest tulip]

Well now I'm sad I turned off rival chronos

[rough lintel]

moros you just need zeus

and then the attack can be anything (i like putting on hera)

hera + zeus works, but heavenly flourish has better blitz dmg

[honest tulip]

I took 8 less damage to chronos than I took to Hecate

I think heroic Apollo attack along with Chain Lightinging hard caried

This would have won on literally anything

[still mantle]

Okay, here's my ideal supay build.
Core boons:
Atk:zoos
Spec:hera
Cast:dem
Dash:heph
Gain:aphro
Utility boons
Static shock
Double strike
Whatever other air boons there are
Air quality
Duo boons:
Romantic spark
Master conductor
Hail storm

The main ones, at least

[honest tulip]

5 gods? do you have to force that with keepsakes?

[craggy totem]

You can naturally get five gods as well if your shop/map RNG works out

[still mantle]

Demeter is not necessary

[cunning laurel]

very unlikely tho

[craggy totem]

Say you only have three gods in your pool, shop offers you a fourth but one of the doors leads to a fifth

[still mantle]

At all

So make your cast whatever

[craggy totem]

Also Hera legendary

[honest tulip]

I mean I like demeters special cast over her actual cast

[still mantle]

Hera is also not needed, but hitch is great

[honest tulip]

Cause it just means 2 Casts

[cunning laurel]

hera special is probably bis

it's too good

[still mantle]

The main goals are static shock, air quality and romantic spark

[jolly hound]

My 45 win was hestia attack Zeus special and Hera dash with supay

basically don’t need to do anything in zone one except sprint to waste all the rifraff

[honest tulip]

Artemis
Melenoe (Flames)
Thanatos
Melenoe (Skull)
Persephone
Melenoe (Black Coat)
Nyx
Shiva

who should I do next?

[cunning laurel]

go nyx

[honest tulip]

k

[nova oar]

Eh

[mental gulch]

does anyone know why im not getting any levels on persephone skull

[red fox]

Rng

[cunning laurel]

low level or unlucky

[mental gulch]

I have it on level 3

[red fox]

Even at max level it has 50% chance for 0 extra level

[mental gulch]

oh wow ok

question what are the odds of getting the exact same duo boon three times in a row without empress/ the arcana that increases duo boon rate

[nova oar]

Depends on available boons from that god

[dry halo]

hey so I got the quest that ||wants you to activate doom three chambers in a row in oceanus then die|| but I got teleported to asphodel on chamber three

does that count

[nova oar]

Gotta start again

[dry halo]

alr

[mental gulch]

um it was zues I only had special and the boon was kings ransom

[nova oar]

Just lucky then

[mental gulch]

lmao \

i still didnt take it

I just got it a fourth time

a fifth time but not in a row

[honest tulip]

Hecate never let's me wear nice things

[red fox]

Zeus is sending some messages

And the message is "help"

[late marsh]

hades 67 coming out on friday

[honest tulip]

Man

I have 1 heroic boon and my other was steady growth. and It rarified to rare. and I was so excited for it to rarify again but then Artimus gave me a boon 😔 Lucky it's epic so next time

Was forced to take another boon that is now also heroc

next time

Dang so that just removes progress huh

[dry halo]

to clear improbable outcomes does it have to be two in a row or just two

also, how do you unlock the ||prestiege system with the tavern keeper||

[craggy totem]

Two in a row, which is why it says successively or whatever the word is

[honest tulip]

Hey so what effects what boons you get? like on a seeded way?

does picking up stuff change things? time?

[cunning laurel]

its something with earning/using enough kudos, so sell all your stuff and buy from dora

[honest tulip]

cause I had the exact same start and found demeter but she's offering different boons this time while aphro offereed the same boons the first time

[craggy totem]

Your choices can affect what you see further down the run, yeah

[honest tulip]

yeah but which choices

Cause I took the same path and found her

[craggy totem]

Did you pick the same boons?

[honest tulip]

yes

[craggy totem]

Same familiar and aspect?

[glossy shadow]

Only first 3 rooms are guaranteed to be the same

[red fox]

Same button press at same time?

[honest tulip]

well this is the first 3 rooms

[red fox]

Everything you do change thing

[glossy shadow]

Fiddling around in surface runs I've seen the same distribution of boons but the actual gods filling them were different

[honest tulip]

I'll figure this out eventually I just need her steady growth

[craggy totem]

TBF on Surface, by the time you enter an actual Ephyra city encounter room, that's chamber 4

[glossy shadow]

🤔

[craggy totem]

Initial encounter = 1, right outside walls = 2, city square = 3

[honest tulip]

gOT IT

[glossy shadow]

Yeah it's cool to see how it shuffles, it gives kind of a huge amount of control over build direction if you happen to see a goated main room

[honest tulip]

Hey so I have 3 boons entering Tartarus 🫠

[cunning laurel]

how

[honest tulip]

Demeter refused to rarify Steady growth

so It took 6 encounters both times for it to rarify my attack and special

[cunning laurel]

and youre skipping every other boon just for those to have rarity? 😭

how do you even go the whole run getting 3 total

[honest tulip]

It's not like I was trying that hard 😭

I am dragging out tartarus so far

[nova oar]

😭

[short raft]

why is divine vengeance bad exactly, can someone explain it to me?

[cunning laurel]

well surely you are skipping every boon

[crude dragon]

It scales poorly with poms, but it's not terrible

[honest tulip]

#h2-victory-boasting message I won

[cunning laurel]

that doesnt look like 3 boons

[short raft]

question; the amount of hits it gets (lets say kings ransom at 45 hits), it... doesnt trigger all 45 hits on the same target? is it like, a low chance to actually pull all hits?

[honest tulip]

I got them all in tartarus

I had steady growth and My attack/special upon entering

[cunning laurel]

actually i thought that was an aphro duo but its godsent huh

[crude dragon]

It will, assuming it survives long enough

The issue is that it's a coin flip for every successive hit

[honest tulip]

In the end I didn't even use the demeter rarifying stuff for anything but the first two cause I just calling carded everything 😭

[crude dragon]

So you have to call heads 45 times in a row in that example to even see it hit all those

[honest tulip]

In other news I learned that you can calling card multiple times

so if you just calling card demeters steady growth in area one that would be a much easier way then how I did this

[craggy totem]

You can also chrolex multiple times

It says the number of charges

[short raft]

the other day i got heroic rarify, then decided to only pick all epics i was give, regardless of the boon, ended the game with 10 heroic boons

[honest tulip]

^ see that's what I was Trying to do

but ended up doing it backwards

[short raft]

did it at top or bottom route?

[honest tulip]

bottom

[honest tulip]

~~ eris or icarus route~~

[short raft]

bad idea, top works best, specially cuz you can use narcisus item to rarify the rarify boon asap

[honest tulip]

well I wasn't expecting to be doing this it just kinda happened

then I got bad luck and decided to try again

[crude dragon]

I think he means you can rarify the same boon multiple times

[jolly hound]

now if you are missing an attack or special in the first biome, and you have heph in your god pool, you can get a 2/3 second volcanic blast attack via calling card

[honest tulip]

Oh true!

[jolly hound]

It’s niche but if it works out that way, you win

[still mantle]

Should I go jpom->calling card->chrolex?

[naive moth]

how do we feel about experimental hammer as a mid game (zones 2&3 keepsake)

[crude dragon]

Depends on if you've got some load-bearing Hermes boon or something else unpommable that you haven't found yet

[naive moth]

i was thinking a zones 3-4 hammer wouldn’t make sense because pin

[crude dragon]

Works great for region 3 since 20 encounters is more than enough time to keep them for the final bosses (can also be done in Oceanus if you get room skips and no side rooms in Tart)

[naive moth]

see i thought about that but then it means i can’t use a pin in zone 4

[crude dragon]

You can swap off

[naive moth]

was trying to figure out if the tradeoff is worth

[naive moth]

oh it keeps??

[crude dragon]

The hammer upgrade persists, yes

[naive moth]

huge thank you i just found my setup teehee

[crude dragon]

Pretty sure only Pin, Tooth, and the god-summoning keepsakes are the only ones that don't have at least some part of their effects persist after swapping

Oh right, also Evil Eye, but that's something that no one in their right mind should consider viable

[craggy totem]

Fleece?

Pig?

I guess you could argue that the already-activated cards stay

Oh, Fang

Antler? Droplet? Knucks?

[jolly hound]

If and only if you have heph in the god pool and are sans attack or special boon after hec/poly

[crude dragon]

Another bottom-tier keepsake that I keep forgetting exists

Knuckle Bones sticks around because the boss is dead

And then Droplet and Antler are both "I forget they don't persist because they're region 4 keepsakes"

[craggy totem]

Pfffffff

[final saddle]

I just did a run where I got Heph attack and dash boons to 2 second cooldowns

Typhon basically exploded from there, especially since I had blitz on the special and glow and the Hades “boss take 20% health” boon

[limpid stream]

10 DD used in one run but I won lmao

[nova oar]

Impressive

[red fox]

Efficiency

[final saddle]

Yo we take those

[wise wave]

How?

[limpid stream]

Trying to remember what happened but iirc

• Start with four (Toula)
• Lost one to Poly, bought it back from Hermes
• Got one from ||Circe||
• Used all but 1 or 2 at Olympus
• Replenish all of then from ||Athena||
  -Use a couple to finish Olympus
  -Buy another one from Hermes, equip luckier tooth
• Use one or two fighting mini bosses
• Buy one from ||Hermes in person||
  -Burn all of them fighting ||Typhon||

[wide river]

this is the general hades 2 chat you dont need to spoiler tag btw

[limpid stream]

Awesome thanks

[wide river]

only really need to do it for #h2-for-new-players

[queen cosmos]

I wonder how does upgraded typhon looks like

I don't want to fight it myself

[honest tulip]

Down to my last 7: Which one should I do next?
Artemis
Melenoe (Flames)
Thanatos
Melenoe (Skull)
Persephone
Melenoe (Black Coat)
Shiva

Up or down too I guess

[queen cosmos]

Shiva

And thanatos

Its crazy if you do this build

Put an cast and omega special

Just this, nothing else

Wait no

It was charon

[honest tulip]

Oh yeah Charon is awesome

[wide river]

i like thanatos and artemis personally

[queen cosmos]

Yeah it sucks

[queen cosmos]

The possibilities for it is insane

[honest tulip]

I got 5 clears with it

Apollo Mana regen go brrrr

[queen cosmos]

Especially if you can get high magick and do the omega two times in a row with an boon at once

[queen cosmos]

Yeah its insane

Thing is evey build is insane but starting it is the hardest thing ever

Especially if it needs 2 or more boons as I never get the second boon for some reason even with dices

[honest tulip]

I only had one recent charon loss and that's cause I had Born gain

[queen cosmos]

And even if I do I don't get the boon I want and then never get the god again

[honest tulip]

So yeah Shiva up or down

Im gonna go donw

Bro Uncle P just told me he can't easily count past 20 😭

Also why the heck does Hecate always have to take so freaking long I'm leaving with 6 seconds left 😭

[errant crow]

does jpom not work with persephone or something? I just used persephone for the first time where it said max random +lv bonus to boons was 5, and every boon i picked up was still 4

[red fox]

Rng

[errant crow]

so how exactly does it work then?

[red fox]

Max out mom skull still has 50% chance for no level

[errant crow]

oh, and then some sort of chance for 1-5?

[red fox]

Yes

[errant crow]

is it divided equally?

[red fox]

No

[errant crow]

huh, doesn't sound that great then

[red fox]

It is some funny bonus that work occasionally

Occasionally+8 heph blast is funny

[honest tulip]

I won but I don't have an attack, dash, or mana regain somehow

omg Greatist Gift of Gaia

What triggers this???

[red fox]

A lot of thing

It unlock after you unlock almost everything and do a lot of gathering

[honest tulip]

I mean I wasn't doing anything different it just randomly showed up

didn't learn it from anyone

[red fox]

Because it unlock after you play the game normally, but a lot

[honest tulip]

I bet it was recycling cause I did a bunch of that

[red fox]

Just gathering

Idk about the requirements it is just some usual game thing

But sometimes some player straight up skipping doing something like fishing or planting then never unlock that

[worn barn]

Is there a way to replay a fight? I’m really smashing my head against the Chronos Rivals Frenzy 2 fight, and I’d love to just crunch it over and over to learn his attacks and timings. But obviously getting to him requires ~20 minutes of real time (plus any runs that die before getting to him), which really cuts down on practice time

[jolly hound]

On pc, yes, I’d recommend watching some videos too

[jolly hound]

Demeter’s plentiful forage is now amazing once you unlock Gaia

[jolly hound]

+9 sea star

[worn barn]

watched a video on it, I could stand a more intentional rewatch but mostly it’s coming down to just getting practice reps in and learning the feel in the fight

[craggy totem]

The way to do it on PC is with a savefile loaded to the closest savepoint to the fight you want to practice, iirc. Do you know how to futz around with H2 saves?

[worn barn]

I don’t! Happy to read up on it if there’s a video/doc on it though 🙂

my principle concern is not screwing my main save 😅

all the rest is added bonus lol

[craggy totem]

#h2-tech-fixes has some info, https://www.speedrun.com/hades2/guides/nyim7 has some more "focused" info

[worn barn]

rad, thanks!

[craggy totem]

Good luck! I am a certified lazybones who ain't doing high Fear anyway so I haven't.... done it myself lmao

[worn barn]

Sure, I hear that 😅I’m sitting at 48 right now and the main thing killing me is Chronos, so I figure I might as well just throw myself at that wall specifically and see how it goes

I’ll give it all a go tomorrow!

[honest tulip]

I have two chaos Favor

do they stack?

[craggy totem]

Chaos boons stack

[merry whale]

delete that extra v on the end of the url

[craggy totem]

Fnork!

[honest tulip]

nice

[viral creek]

what do you think is like the equivalent to h1 32 heat

[nova oar]

40-50

[vital hollow]

Oh my god, I'm so disappointed in myself right now. I was attempting a hitless run and managed to get all the way down to the Fields, but then I just walked right into the thorns

[honest tulip]

I got 85% Heroic Sea Star :3

I got a triple pom and used it on seastar then got duped and used it again

[honest tulip]

ok but going to the end and having a win screen of
Most damage taken:

Traps 1

would be REALLY funny

[tropic ravine]

I’m so down bad bro

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSaaS4J84/

I KNOW that tune

[abstract aspen]

I now have all my arcana maxed out

[prisma monolith]

Is hades 1 or 2 in the ps5?

[nova oar]

1, not 2

[abstract aspen]

why haven't I encountered any other animals than frinos in my 100runs ?

[red fox]

Maybe they are small and you missed them

I missed toula for long time because i rush to exit everytime

[abstract aspen]

I always looked in thermal and chamber of echo

[red fox]

You need to get raki or toula first iirc before gale and hecuba show up

[abstract aspen]

where are those raki and toula ?

[nova oar]

Raki is in the erebus fountain room, toula is at the end of the dock at the start of Thessaly

[abstract aspen]

thanks I'll those locations in mind

I just chat with a cat in thessaly but it runs off

[limpid oar]

32 fear

[viral creek]

🤦

[limpid oar]

Don't 🤦 me for being right

[abstract aspen]

maybe it depend if it's in underworld or surface

because the statues of thadeus requier less fear in surface

[slim pike]

You have to do that a couple of times

before the gift option appears

[viral creek]

but its easier..

[limpid oar]

32h wasn't exactly hard either

[abstract aspen]

oh :sad

[abstract aspen]

I gained a toula

[tropic ravine]

Yahoo

[slim pike]

Now get used to dashing into her just to get her to do anything

and be amazed at her telekinetic fishing ability

[abstract aspen]

she deactivate my strenght

[slim pike]

She do be do that

80hp DD is pretty dang nice though. It's a better Death Defiance until you're over 200hp

[abstract aspen]

and frinos give me 10hp

[abstract aspen]

80 ?

[slim pike]

oh wait, first level, uhhh, 20hp DD

You can upgrade your familiars eventually

[abstract aspen]

there is level to pet ?

[slim pike]

not at first though, an incantation will appear later on

basically you want them animal treats, later on they're used to level them up

[abstract aspen]

after frinos and toula who is my next apprentice ?

[slim pike]

there's 5 in all

[abstract aspen]

how many of those do I have to craft ?

[slim pike]

uhhhhh some

like, 50?

[abstract aspen]

holly hades

[slim pike]

to max out all 5 companions

iirc, been a while

your next animal is the birb, he's found in erebus in fountain chambers

[abstract aspen]

the fountain after hecate ?

[slim pike]

Not that one

the mid-erebus fountain chamber that only sometimes appears

if you think that would make it more awkward to find him, you'd be right

other places to look are in the NPC encounter in Zone 3 of the underworld, and the pre-boss shop of zone 3 of the surface

[abstract aspen]

you mean our dear echo ?

[slim pike]

That's the one

I was talking spoiler free in case you hadn't been that far

Echo is much more consistent to find, probably the most consistently findable NPC in the game if you're actively trying to find her

[abstract aspen]

I have a hundred runs now and a run with 16 fear !

[slim pike]

and you still haven't got all of the pets?

[abstract aspen]

yep

[slim pike]

Dafuq

[abstract aspen]

dont' judge me

[slim pike]

Please tell me you aren't seeing cute birbs, doggos and polecats and just walk past them

[abstract aspen]

all I see is my keyboard and me spamming all buttons

[slim pike]

But they're in empty rooms!

You monster

[abstract aspen]

spamming is da way

[slim pike]

I can forgive many things, like taking hell splitter on the mel axe, room 1 selene and pretending that Hel has an omega attack....

[abstract aspen]

who is hel ?

[slim pike]

... but walking past a cute doggo is where I draw the line

[slim pike]

Hidden skull aspect

[abstract aspen]

there is no doggo

doggo is an illusion

[slim pike]

Take treats

Always take treats

[abstract aspen]

for me ?

[slim pike]

that too

you can't go murder the titan of time on an empty stomach

[abstract aspen]

oh I died

damn eris

adamant rail was better in my hand

[slim pike]

dash through her

she's a bully, she can't handle it when others get up in her face

[abstract aspen]

nah I have to confront her face on

it worked a lot of time, I have a 70:30 win:loose rate

[slim pike]

That's what I mean

Keep close, dash through her when she takes aim because she turns slower than an observatory

[abstract aspen]

I'll do that

[short raft]

So what happens if i get Divine Vengance to 100 procs

[median plinth]

then every 1/2^100 you get a lot of lightning bolts

[slim pike]

you will still probably only get 2 strikes

on the same target

[median plinth]

they should make additional boons increase the % of getting additional strikes

[slim pike]

with a 0.5 second delay between each strike

so if you get 100 strikes, somehow

then it will take 50 seconds to play out

[short raft]

https://tenor.com/view/coin-flip-gif-25292465

[slim pike]

okay, 49.6 seconds, but sue me

[short raft]

Lol
For what i heard the true power of Zeus is actually on Air quality and Meat Grinder+Dyonisus poison

[slim pike]

Air quality and demeter gusts

[short raft]

for the looks of it, they arent coded as they are worded, they deal fast, small quick damage

[slim pike]

prominence flare is good too, but the real zeus power is blitz

[short raft]

So Dyos and Meat grinde go up to 2k damage each

[slim pike]

Add in Glorious Disaster for 1500 more

[short raft]

i wanna do a run now loool

but busy.
Since its an air quality, uh, Origination is worthless?

[slim pike]

In that scenario since Air Quality is literally the last damage step, but origination is still hella strong

and if you're running zeus, you want origination since it makes Blitz act like.... well a bolt of lighting from the heavens

basically you want to nail Origination to your arcana and think very carefully about removing it

[still mantle]

Well then what?

[broken creek]

Then just dont use calling card

Jpom -> chrolex -> whatever -> pin/antler

Calling card inherently is extremely niche and taking it r2 is a huge opportunity loss of chrolex

[jolly hound]

Then you take heph attack in zone two, make it heroic, and win easy

[broken creek]

Its debatable for an r3 take if you are fishing for something in r3 that could use the rarity

But r2 calling card shouldn't be taken period

[still mantle]

I worded that badly....-
What keepsake order do I take instead

[broken creek]

^

[jolly hound]

i'll usually go with plum's suggested keepsakes, whatever being usually hammer or moonbeam (if relevant). the heph scenario is the only time ill go calling card

[broken creek]

And by whatever I mean there's a lot you can take r3, gonion if ur hurt and scars3, gorgon if you dropped all dds to scylla and dont care for the hades boon much, wheel if you are behind on mana, sash if you want the armor, card if you are fishing for a hermes boon or a certain zeus boon, early pin never hurts

E.hammer is a fun take assuming the weapon won't get bricked with a bad hit

I personally would never take moon beam but its an option ig if you wanna focus on a hex desperately

Ive seen droplet be a take for r3 since fields is so big and some weapons love the channeling

[jolly hound]

pretty much only applicable for apollo kamehameha since that'll phase typhon/chronos by itself

Or if a bad roll on hammer will brick my build like ya said

[real scarab]

I take moon beam even in r2 if I have Total Eclipse, it clears one wave each room

[jolly hound]

Godsent version of that will beat Scylla by itself, even with rivals

[real scarab]

yea, very good for the adds in other boss fights too

[still mantle]

Antler😭

[broken creek]

Its the best damage keepsake in the game

Ive exclusively been taking it r4 and it makes timer a breeze, the rooms themselves will die in seconds, and chronos goes pretty quick when you have 3x damage

There's lots of ways to play around it, dds, snow queen, trust shield, nitro boost, lovers, gale blocks, any other armor amount, if you arent on pain3 you wont get 1shot as much as youd think

[still mantle]

Pin?

Like engraved pin from moros?????

[buoyant matrix]

yeah, very good defensive keepsake

[jolly hound]

If timer expires on it you lose a deifance but don’t die I think

[still mantle]

When i first got antler I went "I am NOT using this but I know speedrunners will do wonders" but I completely disregarded pin

[still mantle]

"A defiance"

[broken creek]

Its the best defensive keepsake in the game, 60 baseline hp per room is super useful at high fear, saves dds if you mess up, and 10 seconds of invuln on bosses is amazing

You can take fang instead if you want or are on strength

Just strength falls of hard come high fear so the expectation becomes death

[still mantle]

Where is the website yall use to make fear setups and stuff

I can't find it

[buoyant matrix]

strength "haters" when they have to clear erebus with one of the weaker aspects

[broken creek]

Like the arcana and fear stuff? Thats the crossroads

[broken creek]

Just get gigaros

[still mantle]

Yeah but I literally cant find it

[broken creek]

Ill get ya a link

[buoyant matrix]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/?page=2

[broken creek]

Nvm pizza the goat

[still mantle]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator?vows=WzUsMywyLDAsMiwwLDIsMCw0LDIsMiwzLDAsNSwwLDIsMF0%3D

[broken creek]

Wtf

Biggest troll 32

[still mantle]

My totally not ragebait fear setup

[jolly hound]

How’s that worked out for ya haha

[broken creek]

Take off debt and a wards for timer3

[still mantle]

And i specifically made it hordes 2 to piss you off

[broken creek]

Or like menace or smth

[jolly hound]

Enjoy your dopamine at my expense I guess

[still mantle]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator?vows=WzAsMSwyLDMsMiwzLDIsNSwwLDAsMiwwLDYsMCwyLDIsMl0%3D

Ok here's my actual 32 fear

[cunning laurel]

no debt no scars no frenzy 2?

[still mantle]

Well.... my hypothetical 32 fear at least

Im still working on collecting testaments

[silver topaz]

how hard is fresh file Chronos?

[broken creek]

Drop the grit and hoards and do frenzy

[broken creek]

Not very ive done it twice

You just fish for beach ball or like freezer burn and stuff kinda dies

0 fear is pretty free all things considered

[craggy totem]

"Just," they say. "Just"

[silver topaz]

i tried it but lost to scylla 🙁

[timid vigil]

tbh its doable

god pool is way smaller

[craggy totem]

You gotta do the trick with your health% though right

[silver topaz]

then lost patience and didnt attempt it again, albiet i was not going for any specific build

[broken creek]

Its a lot easier than h1

[timid vigil]

yeah, you need to avoid eris

i almost did it after like 2 attempts but i died because i dodged too early

unironically frenzy 0 chronos messes me up

[timid vigil]

not that hard as well

i think its hard if you want to speedrun it, but if you play super extra careful not caring about timer at all its doable

[broken creek]

Lemme find both of my win screens

[craggy totem]

That's also a good point

[silver topaz]

das boring

[broken creek]

#h2-victory-boasting message

[silver topaz]

i could probably beat max fear if i sat back and spammed ranged

[broken creek]

Lmfao no

[timid vigil]

timer 3 will get you

forget that, fangs pain 3 hordes 3 will get you

[broken creek]

Erebus will get you

Im sure like 99% of players wouldn't even get to hecate on max fear

[timid vigil]

me fr

[final saddle]

What’re the best vows to get fear from as I start out?

[timid vigil]

Time

Frenzy is good to get used to early if you wanna climb higher fears

Hubris and menace also free

[final saddle]

The end goal of it is the third statue

[timid vigil]

Scars 1 is free as well

[timid vigil]

iirc you'll need 32f UW for the third statue right?

[final saddle]

Idk exactly

[timid vigil]

i think getting used to frenzy is really good

[broken creek]

Yeah its 32/24 for the statues

[timid vigil]

just avoid things like hordes, pain, grit

[broken creek]

Rivals4 timer3 frenzy2 is already 24f

[timid vigil]

Yeah then you add like menace debt hubris denial and that's probably 32 already

[broken creek]

But if you dont want that, debt, hubris, denial, menace, shadow, at least timer2, fangs2 assuming no hoards are all free

[final saddle]

Idk about Rivals 4, I’ve seen the gimmicks of both and they seem ridiculous

[timid vigil]

You can make an easy 32 layout with rivals 3

[broken creek]

Its fine, no pain no scars and having arcana you can kinda brute force it

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwyLDMsMCwzLDAsNSwwLDIsMiwwLDMsMCwyLDIsOF0=
This is a pretty easy frenzy1 rivals3 setup

And timer2

If you hate wards you can put on scars2

[tribal wharf]

Time 3 exposing me for how often I whiff on attacks or just move very inefficiently

I’m also using the vow where you have to collect the green thingies or else they respawn and that also annoys me

[timid vigil]

I hate that one particularly

[broken creek]

Its annoying yeah especially come 45+

[timid vigil]

Timer 3 is free even without frenzy 2 tho...

I would use it it's free fear

[broken creek]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwwLDYsMCwwLDAsMiwwLDIsMiwwLDYsMCwyLDAsMTJd
This is a 32 if you wanna go higher

[timid vigil]

But like anyway as long as you avoid pain/hordes/grit and scars 3 you can't go wrong

And void ofc

[tribal wharf]

Also Vow of Hubris makes me wanna take Hecuba on any omega-reliant weapon

[jolly hound]

yep I do this too

if you have zoos especially cause static primes 50

[tribal wharf]

I’ve been trying out 32 heat and I reached Hecate with Hera gain but not enough mana and by the end I was racing against the clock just trying to normal special spin2win her to death lol

[broken creek]

Just take more mana pots and maybe r3 silver wheel and its fine

Ive done a 62 eos and 62 hel that actually used Ospec and it wasn't an issue

[tribal wharf]

Yeah it’s made me value mana pots and wheel more for sure

[broken creek]

#h2-victory-boasting message
The eos run

It was super messy too and I was wayyy worse at the game

You dont need hecuba for mana weapons at high fear if you take mana, bones, and try to focus on a gain before anything else

[final saddle]

If I was doing Rivals 4 what would that look like?

[tribal wharf]

The final boss would be harder

🧠

[timid vigil]

The fear setup?

[final saddle]

Ye and arcana

Well, less the arcana I think I got my builds down

[timid vigil]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwwLDYsMCwzLDAsMCwwLDEsMiwwLDYsMCwyLDAsMTJd

[timid vigil]

I mean arcana is pretty standard

Unless you're gonna use momus or something and then you turn on night

[final saddle]

Ye, I started using death after I got bonked by Chronos in phase 2 lol

[timid vigil]

You can do 32 with strength but death is fine too

Are you gonna play fates whim?

[final saddle]

I believe it looks like this or replacing Eternity and Sorcress if I’m not using an omega weapon https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/ArcanaDeck/?deck=WyJjMSIsImM0IiwiYzUiLCJjNiIsImM3IiwiYzgiLCJjMTEiLCJjMTIiLCJjMTMiLCJjMTQiLCJjMTUiLCJjMTciLCJjMTgiLCJjMjQiXQ==

[craggy totem]

I'm a proponent of no Rivals 32F with Strength and FW /biased

[timid vigil]

Eternity is pretty whatever

Huntress is very important depending on weapon

Wayward son also really good unless scars 3

[final saddle]

Ye, iirc I think my build other than arcana and weapons is Toula, and then run Pom -> Watch -> Card -> I think I’m using either Pin or Bones nowadays

[tribal wharf]

Actually speaking of Torches when using Mel Torches do you guys often use omega special
Do you just use it once at the start of clearing a room, keep it up as much as possible, rarely use it?
I’ve started watching some other people playing Hades 2 here and there and it seem mixed

[timid vigil]

Even with death I would say gale is better than toula

The amount of Hp toula death defiance gives you is so little the blocks from gale are more valuable

[final saddle]

I’d have to upgrade him

[timid vigil]

And the innate dodge%

[slim pike]

Not as essential as Moros, evidently

[craggy totem]

Gale? Yeah, upgrade her asap

She's really good

[slim pike]

Mel torches lets you do the "Oops! All Omegas!" setup with Sudden Burst and Racing Thoughts

[timid vigil]

But the keepsakes are good, you can use something else in r3 instead of card like hammer or knucklebones for surface but yeah

[tribal wharf]

Another weapon question seeing as Coat guy is here
With Aspect of Shiva I have trouble figuring it out if/when I should be charging up omega attack versus just like normal attacking

[slim pike]

Shiva's attack combo is great, just brawl

[timid vigil]

Just don't dash strike

[slim pike]

the third hit in the combo is disgustingly powerful

[timid vigil]

(easier said then done)

[final saddle]

After getting two heroic heph slams bc of card I definitely wanna keep it nowadays

[slim pike]

50,50, 70x2

[final saddle]

2 second cooldowns made Typhon just explode that run lol

[slim pike]

the third attack is almost three times the power of the others

[timid vigil]

Using ospecial helps for spreading a second curse easier, specially if you get like Hera

[tribal wharf]

What’s different about Shiva vs other coat dash strikes, or does this advice apply to other coats too (unless Exhaust Riser)?

[broken creek]

Its just super slow