#gtfo-spoiler-chat

1 messages · Page 24 of 1

obtuse cedar
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They released their r7 stats on steam forums

atomic escarp
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could you link?

obtuse cedar
atomic escarp
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ah i see

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thanks

obtuse cedar
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As for the old stats

rigid escarp
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You say this like it's a bad thing

obtuse cedar
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"veterans are struggling with r7e1 like they should"

rigid escarp
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Wait did I misread

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Hold on

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I'm actually totally unsure what you meant to imply now

obtuse cedar
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That was a quote from back then from 10C during r7 on steam forum

rigid escarp
obtuse cedar
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But the feeling was the opposite

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Veterans don't consider r7e1 as an e tier level. More like a d tier

rigid escarp
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I wonder if that will remain the same when they regain the ability to play other e tiers

obtuse cedar
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Well considering the game is easier now in general

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Going back to old rundown will be just "huh i miss weak gun" type of cope

rigid escarp
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People struggled with rundown 1 stuff when it first dropped

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And some guns were actually stronger before they made the head hit box dissappear on destruction, or just had better stats overall (pump)

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Current combat shotgun was essentially how it is now, back in r3 iirc?

obtuse cedar
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Guns were weaker back then in general

rigid escarp
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Some were literally stronger than they currently are, but I'll take your word on the primaries

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R5 had some busted guns but was still considered the hardest

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But that was later

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My biggest speculation was mostly regarding player skill

obtuse cedar
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R5 is whem gun started to become more and more busted

rigid escarp
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So you say, but the pump shotgun and the combat shotgun were both considered solid at the time and they were stronger prior to that

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I get what you mean re. Hel weapons tho

obtuse cedar
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With the revolver being hit with nerf after nerf cause it was an unoticed busted gun

rigid escarp
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It's not like the guns in r1 were weak enough to still make it hard is mostly what I mean, relative to current player skill

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Some portion of increased rundown completion is going to be caused by the community getting better

obtuse cedar
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R1 and r2 had the "elite" who didnt want to share info apparantly idk i wasn't there at that time

rigid escarp
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I watched r1 and r2 game play but didn't join till r5 fwiw

obtuse cedar
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End of r3 is when info became more common and r4 was the spread of info to pretty much everyone

rigid escarp
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And I mostly feel like guns haven't changed much in potency since r5

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Every rundown after 5 has had some overturned weapons

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But arguably so did the earlier ones, maybe not as severely

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R6 pre nerf scattergun was absurd

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But most didn't stand out THAT much

obtuse cedar
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R4 had tge most busted weapons... But also some of the weakest ones. Really unbalanced rundown

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Shotguns were killing the frames of your teammates

errant vigil
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R4 also removed head bug

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So a lot of lower damage full autos lost a good chunk of damage

prisma zodiac
rigid escarp
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I'd also question like

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Guns were weaker but also head hitbox remaining after breaking head

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Is a huge buff to shooting

obtuse cedar
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Auto sentries on r4e1 be like : what frames?

rigid escarp
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I'm told SMG used to actually be good before the head bug was fixed

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Now it's just

obtuse cedar
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Using a bug to justify guns being good is ridiculous though

rigid escarp
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So if we're talking about difficulty we either have to account for it, or explicitly say "we only count people who avoided using it on purpose"

obtuse cedar
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Bring back the old stats and you gonna see a lot more people dead on the floor

rigid escarp
obtuse cedar
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Pump Shotgun was always solid. Even during the bad times for shotguns

rigid escarp
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Combat shotgun got buffed back to its r3 glory

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And I'm enjoying it a lot

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I know people prefer other weapons but it feels really good to me

obtuse cedar
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Mainly cause it is still on the weak side when compare to the current other guns

rigid escarp
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Maybe.

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I guess compared to the HEL shotgun

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There's not really any other weapons that fill its exact role

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And the HEL shotgun is def overtuned

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Ridiculous gun

obtuse cedar
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Penetration needs a tweak as a mechanic

rigid escarp
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Guns that Pentetrate in this game have generally been balanced to still be totally fine and usable even if you never penetrate

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When you combine that with how easy it is to penetrate enemies

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Its absurd

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Just about every penetrating gun has overperformed

obtuse cedar
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There is a lot of inconsistancy but the moment you get to make any situation into a "controlled situation" it becomes easy and over perform

prisma zodiac
rigid escarp
prisma zodiac
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that gun is certainly not weak rn

rigid escarp
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I try to tell people that

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But nobody listens

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I blame hel shotgun

prisma zodiac
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if i had hel shotgun has a special id probably choose it (but then again pen is broken) but its insanely efficient if used well and has rly good crowd control

rigid escarp
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Combat shotgun was arguably overturned in r5 and its only been buffed since

atomic escarp
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20 tries on R7E1 so far
dear god help

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still havent beaten it

rigid escarp
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It was a popular pick

past bough
obtuse cedar
atomic escarp
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i don't think anyone honestly likes ||pablo||

past bough
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lotta people do

obtuse cedar
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The revolver wasn't seeing much used in r5 because of how commun tanky enemies were present

past bough
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i don't though

atomic escarp
errant vigil
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Would be better if we had more scans with him and weren't able to move back to previous zones or subzones

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Probably would need an error or something too

atomic escarp
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R6c3 but with pablo 🤔

real moss
atomic escarp
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Why you always ruin my fun 😭

errant vigil
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The other bad part is that cheese spots would become way more common

atomic escarp
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With frequent waves should be less usable

obtuse surge
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combat shotgun was dogshit when they did those buffs

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they broke its role and just gave it a different role

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it didn't oneshot

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it oneshots again now

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and all those hel weapons that are actually good aren't good for their penetration

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they're good for the exact same reason that the combat shotgun is good

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one-shot, large mag, high fire-rate

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its why the hel rifle is dookie

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hel rifle is only good for its specific scenarios

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just bring hel gun and shoot twice instead

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ppl didn't use R3 hel gun as much not because lack of info

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but because it actually wasn't that good

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it was only good if used for pen

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didn't have its fast firerate

rigid escarp
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Doesn't pistol get more kills per mag than hel revolver

obtuse surge
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no hel shotgun is no good for its pen

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its good because it nearly one shots a dude

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and you get to shoot 14 times

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really fast

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hel revolver you gotta shoot more and get some reloads but it makes up for that by having a faster reload

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pistol needs 3 shots to kill instead of 2

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it has higher mag to help

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but the hel revolver does have pen

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so if they're nearly the same weapon

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but one does have pen

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you pick that one yes

rigid escarp
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Pen is the reason hel Rev wins over dmr

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I feel it operates closer to that ymmv tho

obtuse surge
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the point is that you could remove "hel" from all hel weapons and they'd still be good

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except for hel rifle

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which means that penetration mechanic isn't the issue

burnt goblet
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More people beat D2 than C1 or C3? thats hilarious

obtuse surge
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it's that the people balancing the weapons don't realise that if penetration is supposed to be the main reason you pick a weapon

burnt goblet
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Then again thats probably people rerunning the levels

obtuse surge
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it means that those weapons need to suck without their penetration

atomic escarp
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Its easy to shoot I suppose

sacred flame
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you can have 100 people attempt a level and only 5 clear it and get a success rate of 5% for one level, while having 10 people attempt a level and only 2 clear it and get a success rate of 20% for one level

obtuse surge
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too much missing info to make conclusions with their clear data

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do they filter them at all

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there's been levels where i drop in a thousand times to test something

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is that a thousand fails

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maybe it is

sacred flame
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my guess would be that it's only if you see the fail screen would it count as a fail. it would mitigate that flaw in tallying slightly, but it wouldn't outright account for it

obtuse surge
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you will only pick your penetration weapon if you're playing a level where you know it'll constantly be useful without you having to go out of your way to profit from it

hexed vapor
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Am I losing it, or is the R2E1 clip an R2D1 zone?

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Gen cluster zone, but with a wack tile.

paper harness
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looks like the 1st terminal room for R5E1\

rigid escarp
# obtuse surge except for hel rifle

I disagree with you on the hel shotgun still being good without pen but I agree on the others, and prior to this have said (and others have agreed with) essentially the same thing you did re: if a weapon is easy to get pen with, and it's good without pen (most of them are), and pen is strong (it is), the weapon is gonna be imba

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The hel shotgun without pen would have a much lower reward for how close you have to get, and the pen is a huge power multiplier in many many scenarios

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I mean maybe it would be OK without the Pen but it's a huge force multiplier for that weapon specifically because it's so easy to set up penetration even compared to the others

mortal granite
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but then again, it's just 1 room

hexed vapor
prisma zodiac
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i mean maybe this is me coping

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but maybe we gotta clear r2d1 again

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and again

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and again

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to unlock r2e1

mortal granite
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well, why not

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rayalot here did do like 50 of them

hexed vapor
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I dunno about that, I think I had somewhere in the ballpark of 15.

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23, apparently.

burnt goblet
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"The best game you suck at developing" 💀 💀 💀

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Steam comments are something else

rigid escarp
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Isn't the dev team like
Tiny

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"1.5 programmers for most of its existence" if I remember what Calle said

deft kiln
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one guy theory

paper harness
nocturne flax
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The "elite of the elite", "you only enter if your good at the game"

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just a bunch of clowns making shit challenges only to ignore the challenges and ktie

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but also a lot of the things where "ush ush"

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for.....a good reason gtfo_foil_1

hexed vapor
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There were some horrendous takes from that time period.

jolly perch
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im trying to remember beyond gtfo

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im pretty sure i was in it, but the only servers from back then I can remember are like reliables and climbables or whatever they were called

nocturne flax
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and yes you were in there if i remember correctly

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i do believe no one wanted to deal with that server anyways

obtuse surge
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HAMMER ONLY

mossy marsh
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🗿

rigid escarp
nocturne flax
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hammer only, biotracker

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cries about occiput

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even tho you can fucking stagger minibosses now

obtuse surge
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revert that shit

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dont need stagger

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stagger some bitches

rigid escarp
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Minibosses meaning tank, mother?

nocturne flax
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yeah

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the only boss we got its the one from r6

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sadly

rigid escarp
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Hammer staggering snatcher with a backshot seems fine to me if that counts

reef talon
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you could count big mother as a boss sort of

obtuse surge
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the pissmother is a boss

nocturne flax
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i love squidward

rigid escarp
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If you can catch up to a snatcher to hammer it

reef talon
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but not really the same

rigid escarp
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You deserve that stagger

nocturne flax
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pretty much

obtuse surge
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pissmother and the squid

nocturne flax
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i just wish we had more actual bosses

obtuse surge
nocturne flax
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inmortal its shit

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super basic

rigid escarp
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Personally

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As long as they're cool

nocturne flax
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imagine if inmortal was an actual big striker but bigger but it actually regen the limbs that you can shoot

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for some time

obtuse surge
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psquid in R8

rigid escarp
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I think snatcher is a lot cooler than kraken, even if kraken was cinematic and a cool reveal

nocturne flax
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so it actually spend time regening

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but its just cheaper for them to just grab the tank model, making it grey

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and invulnerable to everything

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👴

obtuse surge
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i have bad opinion on squid fight cuz when i played it originally my pc was broken so i played on 20fps laptop

rigid escarp
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That were actually engaging to deal with

nocturne flax
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trust

obtuse surge
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guys they will still add the REAL snatcher from the clip they shared long ago

nocturne flax
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now got a new laptop tho, pretty nice setup

obtuse surge
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this is not the SAME ONE

rigid escarp
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Cool enemy

errant vigil
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Pouncer PirateSimon

obtuse surge
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they will add new common enemy for R8

rigid escarp
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I wanted to call them Takers when I saw them, like that one book

obtuse surge
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but it wont be common because it will only be in 1/8 of the game

rigid escarp
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Cuz they take people away

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But people like the name snatcher better so I use it for communication purposes

obtuse surge
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takers?

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u sounding kinda sus

nocturne flax
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so technically not inmortal!

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ds1 had the best design

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🤓

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if only they didnt release half their game as a documentary prior to 2019

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if only

errant vigil
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you talking about seethe

obtuse surge
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seethe and mald

rigid escarp
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Dead space 2 had one too iirc

errant vigil
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oh nvm

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Dead space not dark souls

rigid escarp
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Imo Dead space 1 is the best horror one, and Dead space 2 is the most fun overall

nocturne flax
rigid escarp
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I uh

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Try not to think about 3

nocturne flax
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we dont talk about that

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never happend

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no moon eating stuff

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nothing

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we good

obtuse surge
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is dark souls actually hard or are there also weapons that make it really easy like elden ring

rigid escarp
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There's def weapons that make it easy

errant vigil
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yes

rigid escarp
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The joke was always that magic was easy mode

obtuse surge
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dont use the rivers of blood bro

rigid escarp
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It's largely true

obtuse surge
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its cheese

rigid escarp
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But it can be hard

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It largely depends on what you do

errant vigil
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Buff Flask in elden ring are boosters in GTFO

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mega cringe

maiden breach
jolly perch
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oh

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someone already brought that up

hard cape
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Try Elden ring with empty hands if you think it's not hard enough

candid dragon
mortal granite
hard cape
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Ive seen gamer beat Melania with blind fold. Nothing is impossible

mortal granite
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then the game isn't hard if you've to challenged yourself

rough hazel
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I mean what’s hard for you is different than what’s hard for another person. Maybe they need to be challenged whilst others are challenged from the start. Examples: r5e1. People didn’t find it challenging enough/boring so they spiced it up with cell skip.

pliant pasture
obtuse surge
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skipping parts of the level isn't more challenging

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its faster

rough hazel
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The constant alarm was def more challenging for the average group

obtuse surge
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most of them had never done it the other way either

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im not sure about the difficulty

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but its pretty significant to skip all the other stuff in return

nocturne flax
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arent you skipping a class 6 shadow and a charger error alarm and a shadow zone pack with shadow scouts

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in exchange to a perma error of 2 strikers 1 hybrid and maybe (depending on positioning) 2 mom fights and 1 tank fight

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and then straight to extraction

obtuse surge
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your group of bad players that play normally are getting the more challenging way

nocturne flax
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not gonna lie now that i put it on paper that shit sounds easier kekw

obtuse surge
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cuz they'll alert the moms and the tank regardless

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while still doing all the other stuff too

nocturne flax
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specially with provisions

obtuse surge
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the error

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you gotta KITE

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and kiting is not challenging its easier then shooting

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proof r4E1 pugs

heavy wave
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ngl, i never finished r4e1 with pugs

obtuse surge
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nah trust the kiting is so easy those people just wipe from the rng

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no way its enough resources to shoot especially when we will have x2 resources from boosters

obtuse cedar
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I finished r41 with pubs. One extreme and one high

obtuse surge
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the devs were just trolling when they added resources to that zone, it was actually design around kiting

obtuse cedar
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It was quite a journey and the pubs were pretty bad 99% of the time

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To a point where you would spot the names of players asking for e1s and you remember how they would take 5 min to kill 1 tank

hard cape
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I can kinda tell if they take more than 10 mins to take out 2 tanks in E1 then they probably can’t complete the reactor part with or without cheese

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And don’t leave the important stuff to newbies. Failed a E1 run cuz he didn’t know how to verify reactor

atomic escarp
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there are way more important and harder tasks than just verifying the reactor in E1

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can't verify it on the first place if you don't have the codes
and do i have to remind you about the giant shadows / tanks in the area?

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Man i hate E1 with a burning passion
still haven't beaten it, 20+ tries

real moss
atomic escarp
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Ammo is an issue, then
come on literally everything is important in this game

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can't just melee a mommy with any team

real moss
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When you go in shadow zone we pull the two rooms.

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This trivialises code 2 and 3

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If you have a mine, mine the door to room 2 and pull it

atomic escarp
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DjDNA is just built different

real moss
atomic escarp
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holy shit

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let me just take notes

real moss
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There are no ammo issues unless you miss a code

atomic escarp
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which level are we discussing

atomic escarp
real moss
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There should be no ammo issues*

atomic escarp
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pro tip if you're having ammo issues ||get better aim||

real moss
atomic escarp
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or just run supply efficiency

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supply efficiency is basically a cheat code

real moss
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One of them should be c foam. in case cscout is a problem

atomic escarp
#

oh E1

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E1 is annoying because the only part that matters is the last 5-10 minutes

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everything is pretty easy up until then

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and then it's make or break

prisma zodiac
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oh i thought peeps were talking about r4 or smth lol

r7e1 is tight on ammo but you can shoot the shadow zone for sure. Having a mine makes it even easier

atomic escarp
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and all it takes is one person to fuck up at the wrong time and that screw your team

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||you can also cheese the teleport zone to save ammo|| but you didn't hear that from me

real moss
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Also when I say pull the shadow rooms. make sure you are standing IN them. never shoot in middl3 reactor room

prisma zodiac
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i mean you can cheese a lot in e1

real moss
prisma zodiac
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if you actually do everything without it ammo gets a lot sparser and some parts are more fun

atomic escarp
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get someone to spawn block the shadow zone during wave 3

real moss
prisma zodiac
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imagine you 1. let pablo actually follow the team
2. dont cfoam charger door
3. dont cheese other dimension
4. dont respawn block (tho this just makes it harder/more tedious, not more fun

real moss
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to Block spawns

atomic escarp
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it's amazing how much easier E1 is once you learn all the strats

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but the last bit can still majorly fuck you over

twin dirge
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E1 is literally a filter of who is good and who is shit at the game

atomic escarp
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I mean, you can beat E1 by getting carried as long as you don't fuck your team over

twin dirge
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what do you think I said lmao

atomic escarp
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"not fucking your team over" doesn't make you "good"

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it just makes you not shit

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:)

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all you have to do is shoot straight and not alert the scouts and everyone else can do the hard work

twin dirge
#

in order to not fuck your team over you have to be good PirateSimon

real moss
twin dirge
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I mean yeah true

prisma zodiac
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2 can carry 2 aswell
1 carrying 3 becomes harder but is still possible if they can at least shoot 😐

lyric narwhal
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bro i played with some people in E1 and when we got to the stealth portion 1 guy didnt know that scouts didnt react to you walking and just sat there and let a scout tendril touch him

atomic escarp
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lol

prisma zodiac
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yeee

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but microing means you explain stuff i guess

real moss
#

Players have no clue about the game !!!!!

lyric narwhal
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people really just need to teach new players these things early on

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this is why its always tradition to send the new guys to kill scouts in early levels

real moss
lyric narwhal
#

yeah i hate when that happens

real moss
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The number of people who did not even finish E1 without using the door cheese is also too damn high!

twin dirge
lost holly
#

😌🤝

real moss
lyric narwhal
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its fine to help out but you need to take care to make sure they can become self sufficient

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contribute to the learning process a little

real moss
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It's not the Carry itself that's bad, it's about HOW

lost holly
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Like r4e1 or r6d3

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If people who join cant keep up thats really none of our concern

real moss
lyric narwhal
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i remember one time recently i was playing in a beginner lobby and there was 1 guy who was pretty much speedrunning the level, opening doors before the leftover alarm enemies are dead and clearing stealth areas before they even get a chance to process which way theyre even supposed to go

real moss
#

But that was with consent

lost holly
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Yea as i said right, if i make a e1 lobby its none of my concern if the people cant keep up

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Its not like i post it in beginner or intentionally invite new people

bold widget
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based

real moss
lost holly
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But it gets annoying

real moss
prisma zodiac
#

btw @real moss did you see my clip?
i swear i am finally not stuck in r1a1 solo limbo anymore

twin dirge
#

Uhm actually they should get carried 🤓

real moss
#

but for real, was clenching

prisma zodiac
#

an ad musicmommyThink ?

real moss
prisma zodiac
lost holly
bold widget
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just finished a1

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joins d tier levels

prisma zodiac
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i mean i did that with someone in r5

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they legit listened and tried to learn the game tho

bold widget
#

chad

twin dirge
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impossible

real moss
last gust
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(no bots in either)

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we certainly could've carried a noob in the fourth slot

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so long as they stood in the S scans when required, and didn't wake up the mommy zones en route to reactor

old geyser
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i so wouldnt

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i could run it with you no problem

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one problem out of price range rn we need the money for bills

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if i didnt have the hurdle to get over i so would join you

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im down anytime to play it

last gust
shy vessel
#

@broken scarab random question did you guys forget about TheWarden twitter account? It hasn't posted clear statistics since R5

broken scarab
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Can make an update of that

scenic lion
#

Does anyone know if the devs are planning on adding Steam achievements to the game?

turbid cliff
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They used to talk about it

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But at this point probably not

plush basin
scenic lion
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I dont know anything about game developing, but wouldnt it be an easy thing to add?

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As in, low ammount of work but high ammount of player satisfaction?

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This game has a lot of potencial for fun achievements

prisma zodiac
#

Such as musicmommyThink ?

atomic escarp
#

Hammer a pmom

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Lotsa fun i tell you hwat

plush basin
#

"I touched the feelers!" : Alert 100 scouts

real moss
plush basin
#

"Mine Gott!" : Blow up your team with a mine on the extraction point

real moss
plush basin
#

it would make LFG so much more fun

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people hunting wack achievements

real moss
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If there's one thing PD2 did right it was achievements

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for gtfo tho .....

plush basin
#

wtf there are 1302 PD2 achievements

real moss
#

Meaby stuff like bring all the fogturbines in R2B4

real moss
plush basin
#

An actual serious one could be like collecting all of the collectables on whatever pickup level

prisma zodiac
#

it rly shouldnt be anything troll

Otherwise have fun wiping due to someone wanting an achiecement when someone else wanted a clear/another achivement

plush basin
#

I even think things like "Stealth kill X amount of scouts" could make people rush and compete to kill them and cause trouble

prisma zodiac
#

anything enemy related is a bit 😐

plush basin
#

One of the reasons why tracking stats like kills at the end of the game isn't a great idea

prisma zodiac
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especially since it becomes grindy quickly

plush basin
#

Some gimmes could just be to have a tank/mom/pmom die on your level

prisma zodiac
#

i mean you could technically do speedrun achivements i guess (like some games do) but 😐 thats also kinda wack

plush basin
#

Doesn't matter who kills it but if your team vanquishes one you get it

prisma zodiac
real moss
plush basin
#

Speedrun times could be fun for some levels, but not all of them I think

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Don't want to make them too inaccessible or annoying

real moss
prisma zodiac
#

but yea

plush basin
#

I just think a casual player will have more fun trying to go fast in an easier level basically

#

I mean even I do, tbf

real moss
#

filthy casuls

prisma zodiac
#

smth like A1 below 10 minutes

#

its easy

#

but more fun for some

real moss
plush basin
#

Just some simple stuff like beat all levels on Rundown X and beat all optionals on Rundown X would be fine

prisma zodiac
#

those are the basic ones ye

real moss
#

gimme more rare chievo's

prisma zodiac
#

kill (as a team) each possible enemy in each level

#

(As in type)

#

the hunt for d2 pmum begins

plush basin
#

Interesting

prisma zodiac
#

need a training achievement musicmommyThink

plush basin
#

Could be annoying for say R7B3Ex giant fliers

#

but thats quite specific

prisma zodiac
#

i mean r1b2 is more fun. Trigger scouts so you get giant strikers

plush basin
#

lol

prisma zodiac
#

well technically they can spawn as the extract wave afaik

#

ive had it happen once

real moss
prisma zodiac
#

beat training without grabbing ressources musicmommyWicked

plush basin
#

man I'm lucky there were two As

#

I'd have looked quite the fool

real moss
#

Casul works too

plush basin
#

But yes another game I can 100% on steam would be nice

real moss
#

straightforward chievo's

plush basin
#

Not sure if souls like is troll or serious

real moss
#

Just a bit of grinding here and there

plush basin
#

I've played DS3 through twice but some of the side things I've just missed both times

#

But then I did 100% ER

real moss
#

Souls likes have very easy achievements to get. It's basically just finish the game. 2 or 3 times

#

ER was very ez as well yes

#

Sekiro actually had me finish the game 7 times. so meaby skip that one

plush basin
#

lol I like Sekiro but I tried to get the best ending and I couldn't get an eavesdrop prompt so couldn't pursue it

prisma zodiac
#

Hollow knight is quite cool to get achievements

#

the only rly challenging thing is the last pantheon

real moss
#

Ark survival evolved is super easy to do

#

and it does not have a lot of them

plush basin
#

It looks like they added quite some stuff to HK since I played it last

prisma zodiac
#

wait when did you play o.O

plush basin
#

2017

prisma zodiac
#

it got some dlcs YEARS ago (pretty sick ones)

#

all free

plush basin
#

100% completion and finish in under 20 hours isn't too hard?

#

Sounds like it could be tough

#

also steel soul mode

#

I'd probs have to be pretty hollow knight pilled at the time to get those

prisma zodiac
#

Steel soul is chill if you have finisjed before

#

100% completion 20 hours is kinda rough if you dont plan ahead. Otherwise its chill since you can skip some % (112% is full completion now)

#

Pantheon is at least a 40min grindfest of all bosses pretty much just harder

plush basin
#

idk, just cos I finished the game doesn't make me think I could no death it xD

#

Steel soul would be rough for me

prisma zodiac
#

No death is easy since you can technically always safe and quit (ive never used it yet, but i know some do)

#

which sends you back to a bench

plush basin
#

GTFO players bringing their cheese into other games smh 🙃

#

I should check out the new content at some point anyway but its been 5 years so I'll be rusty

prisma zodiac
#

i also speedran hollow knight before
Its a legit strat there |:

plush basin
#

you ever speedrun Celeste?

prisma zodiac
#

Nope

#

didnt play it yet

plush basin
#

Ah, if you like speedrunning and platformers I think it will be up your street

#

Its my favourite platformer

prisma zodiac
#

I watched some rund

#

runs*

#

and was thinking about it

#

but at the time i had games AND no money

plush basin
#

Well I highly recommend it

prisma zodiac
#

path of pain was one of my favourite things in hollow knight

plush basin
#

same here for sure

half hornet
#

The music was nice

#

But I'm never doing that again

#

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz~

atomic escarp
#

I don't think I ever wanna do path of pain

#

white palace was pain enough

plush basin
#

wait hold on, maybe I thought white palace was path of pain

#

they made a harder one? 👀

atomic escarp
#

yeah lmao

#

I stopped playing HK when I got filtered by pure vessel

prisma zodiac
#

its an off branche 1 time clear path

#

its a lot more fun and harder

half hornet
#

"fun"

#

Eventually you have to turn off game sound and only leave music or else you'll go insane

hexed vapor
#

The teaser video is actually probably z593 from the original E1, it's just labelled as z606.

#

Most likely because they can't have zone numbers below the number for the elevator anymore (that or our one guy just isn't aware of how to do it or hasn't bothered with it at the time the clip was recorded).

#

So, all zone numbers have to be bigger than 596, meaning the armory and the 4 extraction/error zones are now zones 603-607.

prisma zodiac
#

wait thats a thing?

#

is that the case for r1c2 aswell?

hexed vapor
#

Actually yeah, they did add 90.

#

So there is a workaround.

#

It's just not used in the clip for some reason.

prisma zodiac
#

yeah that was my musicmommyThink

hexed vapor
#

I am mostly confident that "z606" is just z593, though.

#

It makes the most sense given the tile, zone number, the advertised level, and the presence of spitters.

fallow wasp
#

This new palette would be lovely without all the dirt and mud caked on the prisoners

#

The tunnels must be really dusty if somehow after .2 seconds of getting out of hydrostasis we’re already coated

atomic escarp
#

be nicer if it was darker

twin dirge
#

tbf we were probably in the dirty suits already in hydrostasis

scenic lion
#

Any explanation on why the prisoners are safe from turning into sleepers even after being in contact with a lot of them and breathing infected air?

prisma zodiac
#

Ask gtfo lore

plush basin
#

Think its something like the hydrostatis chambers they rest in counteract the effects of the virus but #gtfo-lore will give you a better answer ye

rigid escarp
#

Haven't played since like, big bank Era tho

#

Honestly I sort of see the optional objectives as serving rhe same purpose as level specific challenge achievements. They're a badge of honor, they (used to) sometimes come with ab aesthetic reward, and you'd either decide in the lobby or at some turning point in the mission whether or not to go for them as a team

wary olive
rigid escarp
#

Lore chat has the full answer but the answer kinda sucks

#

You have to be killed by the virus to mutate into a sleeper-body (and then die if you have no parasite to puppet you) and you have to have have a parasite infest you while you are alive to puppet you to be controlled by the parasite hive mind that the sleepers act as part of

wary olive
#

🧟‍♂️

rigid escarp
#

We don't get puppeted because we never get infested by parasites permanently (and the parasite can be removed)

#

We don't succumb to the virus because uh

#

I think it's implied that we never see a parasitized host which doesn't have the virus, even though it's implied they exist, or used to

#

Theoretically they wouldn't look anything like the sleepers we know

pliant pasture
kind swan
#

Newbies in real time who know nothing about the game

pliant pasture
#

lol i wish, instead they see a lone sleeper and are like, "wait wait slow slow scare scare"

obtuse cedar
#

Teach them to not think with "must crouch all the time"

pliant pasture
#

exactly, i emphasize the difference between crouching and walking is actually pretty small

dark rover
#

I just learned that

half hornet
#

Crouching is paramount when setting up a sync kill, as wake sleeper slow down the process of getting into position.
For solo clearing - sure, go at it, but once its 20 sleepers in same cubical meter please let other people to move a bit too without risking to wake up the room

prisma zodiac
#

i mean it depends on density

hallow lark
prisma zodiac
#

9 sleepers on top of each other? Yeah sneak a bit

3 enemy clusters of 3? walk them down

hallow lark
#

I lost half of my soul attempting to break a lock with a Giant 5ms away from it

half hornet
#

even happens with lonely giants

hallow lark
#

Broke it during its transition to sleep

#

But I was scared pissed

half hornet
#

the squad trying to get behind the guy and 1 guy constantly makes him go glurg glurg

#

what should've taken 10 seconds takes 30

pliant pasture
half hornet
#

inb4 he finally wakes up and slaps 2 closesst people down

pliant pasture
#

if you walk stealth you are expecting him to wake up and i get less surprised by it, and have a chance to back step

#

i am still getting a hang of it, but walk stealth i do believe is the end goal

prisma zodiac
#

its a mix of all

#

Sprint/walk/crouch

#

walk being the most used

hallow lark
royal lichen
#

code 2 never forget

rigid escarp
#

Which is common, but I'm not sure I'd say it should be your default form of movement in stealth

daring pilot
#

or if it's in fog

#

the knee high R7B3 fog comes to ming

rigid escarp
#

Oh

#

Actually yeah that too

daring pilot
#

or if I'm speedbonking as well

rigid escarp
#

It also like

#

Depends on how much shit is in the room

daring pilot
#

nah just how much is within stretch distance

#

:3

pliant pasture
rigid escarp
#

If I'm approaching a cluster of 2 or 3, and there's another cluster close enough that walking might make them click, I'm not usually walking personally, especially if the room has other shit I don't wanna wake

#

That's just me though

daring pilot
rigid escarp
#

If you're comfortable hammering large woken rooms

#

I guess do whatever you want

daring pilot
#

nah I don't like to wake it up

#

the R7C2 left wing is a nightmare if you screw up

pliant pasture
daring pilot
#

but I usually can just bonk by walking bc I just move while they stretch and stop when they goosh

rigid escarp
#

Personally I try to push it as much as possible to force myself to improve unless we're In a difficult mission I don't wanna fail, or I'm playing with new players and I have to let them get used to the game without me skipping everything or they're never gonna learn

pliant pasture
prisma zodiac
rigid escarp
#

But I still end up being a lot more careful in rooms with lots of giants / scouts / chargers than rooms with just smalls

daring pilot
#

yeah if I'm with newbies I let them handle most of it

prisma zodiac
#

perma sneak is the „this room is fucked idk whats where“ full dark and or shadows

daring pilot
#

well yeah if there are scouts and sleepers I'm gonna be pretty careful

#

thats the scary room usually

rigid escarp
daring pilot
#

it only matters if the sleeper to be woken by the scream is stretching

prisma zodiac
#

crouching doesnt alert clicking unless you are in ~1,5m range

daring pilot
#

if the sleeper you bonk is throbbing it doesn't change what the sleeper 10 meters away will do

rigid escarp
#

If there's nothing within walk range I usually crouch until they start clicking and then just stand and walk up and kill while they throb / alert

prisma zodiac
#

i mean sprint/walking is 8m, crouch 2m for full sleep range

for clicking its 8 for all

royal lichen
#

shift-jump-bonk, no matter what they do or begin doing when u arrive, sklorts

rigid escarp
#

I'm also not sure what the current state of sprint jumping / bunnyhopping is

prisma zodiac
#

wesley explained it

host cant (unless sprint gets cancelled mid air by an objject/wall) client can if timed well enough due to slight desync/lag

#

technically not a thing

#

practically it is

rigid escarp
#

That may be my issue

#

I always host

prisma zodiac
#

it not something you should do anything

#

in most cases it just isnt worth

royal lichen
#

walking towards a mob charging, even if it wakes up before arriving, just hop to as u release, try to hit head, much rewarding

#

not for all situations tho, mobs closeby will get aggravated ofc

#

cuts down on "singles cleanup time" much as u hop the last meters

prisma zodiac
#

vs shooters its a good way to often avoid a hit

#

since if you just sprint they might hit you earlier

royal lichen
#

yup, and damn they fast on that first shot + scream after

rigid escarp
#

I mean if they're awake, ig

prisma zodiac
#

no its from sleep

#

I mean i do it sometimes in my a1 solos, the recent one i did should have moments like that

#

Also sprinting forces aggro (and strikers turn around)

royal lichen
#

luckily the sitting ones are kinda slow turning around on wakeup but the standing ones just <wakeup> <shoot> <scream> all in like 0.9 seconds

rigid escarp
# prisma zodiac no its from sleep

If a shooter is far enough away from you that you have to sprint hop to reach it and it will still have time to shoot at you before you can get in swing range, I don't usually do actions that wake them up on purpose

#

Getting shot isn't fun

hallow lark
royal lichen
#

room full of strikers u can easily navigate and cleanup hitless but throw a few shooters in there and almost a guaranteed 5% 10% hp loss

prisma zodiac
#

I mean speedclearing is a thing (see speedrunsj

rigid escarp
#

And for really easy missions where you just don't care it's whatever

rigid escarp
#

I tend to prioritize shooters over (non point blank currently attacking) strikers in general combat for this basic reason

royal lichen
#

and doing a 10-15 enemy room for 10 minutes taking eeeverything is slow as can be, congrats, no hits, but usually i lack in patience

rigid escarp
#

Fun fact

#

I ran r1d1 blind and assumed we were gonna have to run to all the terminals in all the side zones while attacked by nasty waves of enemies

#

So we quietly stealthed the entire level

#

Checked for codes on every terminal

#

Then did the reactor

royal lichen
#

sometimes it's cathartic to just go slow and take em 1 by 1, bide the time

rigid escarp
#

And we uh

#

We found out we did not actually have to do any of that

hallow lark
royal lichen
#

the padlock locker with the giant strikers clearly in earshot and u timing your lockpicking by visuals only

#

maaaad mad respect

hallow lark
#

Nope! It’s just fear taking me

royal lichen
#

she went back to bed, i got back to pc with ~40 seconds left of that codehunt, u got the key, we took the penalty wave and went on to victory, what a night .. .. (that run ended at like 5:30am for us)

hallow lark
royal lichen
#

reminds me of a certain r7c2 overload iix experiment ... 🙂 .. that was like 0,5 seconds away from a late bonk and a probable wipe 😄 ..

#

feels to good to pull something like that off once in a while

hallow lark
#

Omg..,

#

You always come up with crazy ideas with unknown risks attached to em and I would always like desiccate those ideas down with chances of success

royal lichen
#

ends and means, mah friend, ends and means..

hallow lark
#

And we would having funny roles assigned to each of us that fits our roles

#

Such as Supplier K, Crazy Hiru, Madman Wyvern

hallow lark
royal lichen
#

iix, hammer charge, circle behind cscout, release microseconds before iix wears off, ded. was exciting and felt goooood.

hallow lark
#

Lol! You went against my risk assessment tho XD

#

“I’ll take my chances” pretty much

rigid escarp
#

If the level is easy or super stealth heavy I just bring it to make things faster

#

Once you've tasted bio tracker stealth it's hard to want to go back

hallow lark
kind swan
lilac sage
#

R7E1 is fucking impossible. Any tips?

atomic escarp
#

it is possible

#

just need an idea of what needs to be done

lapis agate
lilac sage
atomic escarp
#

yes

lilac sage
#

What the fuck!

atomic escarp
#

fr its not that hard

kind swan
#

lol... the only thing about E1 is that no checkpoints exist there.

#

Basic shit for early access vets

lilac sage
#

I’ve been running it nonstop for the past month with random squads, we either make it to reactor and die or we don’t even make it past the first alarm door

atomic escarp
#

it happens

#

needs team coordination otherwise not gon be fun

sacred flame
kind swan
#

Terminals in general

sacred flame
#

haha, guess it's their turn to learn terminal speak

kind swan
#

They can do everything else

#

except terminals

sacred flame
#

learning terminals really is an invaluable skill, you can essentially scout out a level from just the first zone

#

given that it has a terminal of course lol

kind swan
#

I forget which rundown was it that introduced the terminal per zone

#

Terminals in R1 were not set like they are now

lilac sage
#

Okay, so on analysis, our failures at the first door are usually due to team coordination being terrible. On the rare occasion that we have good teamwork, we get through to the reactor, and then during the stealth sections the people responsible for getting to the terminals fuck up and wake up the rooms they are in, and then us at Defense get swarmed by enemies

#

So… get better stealth I guess

sacred flame
#

yeah the first scan needs good team coordination to quickly move the immortal away from the S scans and head back to finish it before the immortal can down you all on the scan

#

when you say messing up the stealth, do you mean for the first 3 codes, or the last code?

atomic escarp
#

i assume the 4th code since the first 3 codes arent that bad in terms of fuckery

real moss
plush basin
#

The 4th one can just be a killer sometimes depending on enemy spawns

real moss
#

It's better to shoot the charger and shadow rooms as well on code 1-3

sacred flame
real moss
real moss
#

I like split up levels

#

I still don't like R7E1 very much tho

#

I think R6D3 was better for example

lapis agate
#

I literally did R7 E1 first try only knowing about Pablo and the reactors existence

plush basin
#

whooah

real moss
#

altho first try is.... yeah

plush basin
#

lucky you didn't accidentally shoot when getting taken to the charger zone 🙂

real moss
#

And I was the one shooting

plush basin
#

I remember thinking if it was actually putting us STRAIGHT into the action and we had to shoot through those guys right away

#

that would be wack

#

then realised we triggered them

real moss
plush basin
#

had they done that part before? 🤔 Or just noticed the teleport text

real moss
plush basin
#

their fault for not making it clear then xD

real moss
#

Meaning one was done in 3 days and I was slow cause a week 😔

real moss
#

or they told me beforehand and I was not paying attention to percentage

#

oh well

plush basin
#

better than beating it first try 🙂

real moss
hallow lark
errant vigil
#

First try is kinda unsurprising if you’re playing with people who have beaten the map before and if you not going in blind

deft kiln
#

Yeah honestly what I was thinking. The reactor is a tight section you have time but not a lot for messing around

lapis agate
#

The reactor was super easy and dealing with all of the tanks was fine as well, just good coordination on the teams part

obtuse surge
#

E1 alarm with immortal isn't team coordination

#

cope harder

#

its just each person being smart enough to realise that if the immortal is on top of the scan

#

you walk away from the scan

lapis agate
#

I’m not talking about the immortal

#

I’m talking about the 4 actual tanks spread throughout the level

#

The 3 from the blood door and the one that spawns during reactor

wary olive
#

theres only 2 from the blood door

#

2 spawn during reactor

atomic escarp
#

Wave 3 and wave 4

lapis agate
#

Oh ok

#

I forgot where

#

But still point made

wary olive
#

fighting the two blood door tanks is not fundamentally different from fighting just 1 tank, but poeple still struggle with 1 tank so

lapis agate
#

Yeah it’s just mainly a matter of getting to a good place to cycle off people taking shots at it

daring pilot
prisma zodiac
#

i mean 2 tanks means less peeking time

burnt goblet
#

If you're doing an e level you should already have an understanding of how all the enemies at that point

#

2 tanks isnt much

prisma zodiac
#

not much doesnt mean as difficult as 1

hallow lark
#

Cuz that tank on me isn’t gunna give me ANY results in hurting it

obtuse cedar
#

People failing to realise there are ways to dmg tanks from the front

#

You just need to use your environment to your advantage

hallow lark
obtuse cedar
#

any guns work

#

just find some elevation. you can hit the top one from the front.

obtuse surge
#

cheese!

kind swan
#

White hitmarkers = 5x dmg ||Fakenews||

#

wym I can't just one shot kill the immortal. I did it in my last pub.

atomic escarp
#

ive been told u can melee the immortal

agile sundial
#

I suspect misinformation

mortal granite
#

he's right, you can melee the immortal

kind swan
mortal granite
#

you can also foam the immortal

agile sundial
#

LFGs would never lie

#

Foam I knew

atomic escarp
kind swan
#

"ITS MORBY TIME"

#

"When is he gonna say it?"

agile sundial
#

Lol

nocturne flax
burnt goblet
#

On the wiki it says the immortal has an effective health of 1 billion.

Thats nothing, you only need 7.793 million Scattergun shots to kill it. Childs play

#

and only 909 million autopistol shots PirateSimon

inland crater
#

gonna vpn to some country in the middle of nowhere and use desync to make that 2 billion

pliant pasture
lapis agate
#

You can get about 10 million shots off with the perfect load out

pliant pasture
#

2 million hits?
ez just kite

twin dirge
azure reef
fierce laurel
#

what

azure reef
#

Its not a "good" strat, but its funny, and sorta works.

fierce laurel
#

are u talking about the tank or immortal

azure reef
#

Tank. Pablo has no bubbles. He has ascended beyond bubbles.

twin dirge
#

so you just happen to kill to Pablo in one hit PirateSimon

hoary musk
prisma zodiac
#

i mean you dont rly need waveclear for e1
And choke is insane on that level anyway

kind swan
#

Pablo = Immortal.

#

But doom talks of regular Tank

kind swan
#

But pubs be pubs.

#

aside from new players who don't believe me that they have to be ammo efficient with it otherwise they'll be constantly asking for ammo packs

#

But they're new

hidden crater
#

i just use it if i know im gonna get a lot of giants, otherwise i stay far away from weapons that arent high RPM or shotgun

kind swan
#

When I do. I use a primary I can be very ammo efficient with like Helrevo/DMR and still get kills.

#

Next to melee kills as much as possible

#

But not everyone can/opts to melee during swarms

heavy wave
#

ngl, im still too used to melee during swarms with 80% me going in there forgetting about stam

lusty imp
#

Is R7C2 secondary broken?

#

I got an ERROR: UNEXPECTED TETHER DISCONNECT... DOWNLOAD INCOMPLETE

#

And my secondary just failed...

#

3 Hours down the drain?

real moss
lusty imp
#

I typed in some command in the terminal

#

And got teleported out

real moss
#

When you put in the last cell in main. Did you do the scan or did you immediatly go for secondary

lusty imp
#

I didn't do any scan if I recall correctly

real moss
lusty imp
#

What scan are you referring to by the way?

real moss
#

When finishing main: a scan appears before the gen cluster. You do it and it TP you to the desert.

There you do the command and it fails . AFTER that you go to secondary and re-teleport to that area but this time it lets you finish the scan

#

But if you go into secondary first well you get the Error and you are locked out

lusty imp
#

What the shit

real moss
#

So there ya go

#

Next time you know what to do

lusty imp
#

Guess there goes 3 hours of my time

real moss
#

Meh next time it will probably only take 1.5

#

but yeah it is one of the longer ones

lusty imp
#

This is intended?

real moss
#

Apparently is yes

lusty imp
#

I feel trolled

#

But okay..Whatever

#

Thanks for the help

real moss
#

Welcome to: GTFO

#

I would say have secondary door only unlock AFTER you went to the desert from main scan, but apparently the devs thought otherwise

timid cipher
#

Does anyone know how boosters work?

real moss
#

And it goes away after that. one time use

twin dirge
#

they increase specific stats and the higher level boosters have a trade-off

timid cipher
#

How do you aquire them

real moss
real moss
#

Just don't go around and farm them.

twin dirge
#

find them on the ground when playing, they look like gems
takes multiple to get a booster though

real moss
#

boosters are a help but are in no way necessary to complete anything

#

So have fun, grab what you find but don't spend your life farming the shit out of them

timid cipher
#

is it 1 - 1 for artifact - booster?

twin dirge
#

yeah once they're activated, they're used up
so if you die and leave the level, the booster is consumed

real moss
timid cipher
#

100%

real moss
#

On 100% it's like 3-1

timid cipher
#

artifact heat

#

woah

#

mk

real moss
#

The lower it goes the more you need

#

up to I think like 6-1

#

or 7-1

timid cipher
#

gotcha

#

so realistically use them when you get them or

#

hold them for a hard zone?

prisma zodiac
prisma zodiac
# timid cipher hold them for a hard zone?

i mean depends…
As we already said you rly dont need them for levels, the game isnt designed with them in mind.

Sp hold them for a hard level when you rly struggle and might need that extra push would at least give them a purpose. Otherwise you just play with random modifiers every game

timid cipher
knotty barn
#

also boosters can mess up mechanics xD. We once boosted a sniper turret shooting speed as far as possible, it ended up shooting so fast that it became kinda inaccurate, shooting limbs instead of heads xD.

Also a full steroid run can be fun with a spear. When fully boosted you can one-shot sleeping giants and hybrids xD. Makes C3 (or was it C2?) a little bit easier ^^.

paper harness
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c3

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c3 much easier with melee boosters

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makes the charger scout zone so much faster

knotty barn
#

yeah you can oneshot those as well ^^

#

with boosters that is

knotty barn
#

steroids. all of them. Just enough to not turn into hulc hogan xD

#

they buff melee damage and sometimes debuff something else. Not quite sure which exact boost level you need to be able to one shot them, we just usually go ham with them ^^. But with a spear, and 3 boost of steroids (mute, bold, aggressive) and a fully charged jab at the back of the head will take down anything xD.

#

I am pretty sure that you can find that information in the discord by just hitting that search button ^^

#

there you go ^^

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50% is what you need 😉

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oO and then he deleted his messages oO, well so be it xD

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With all 3 boosters and a spear you can definitely one shot giants, did so myself ^^

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and hybrids ^^

#

though it has to be the back of the head

hexed vapor
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Need at least 50%

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Need 60 damage, you can do 40.

paper harness
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yeah that sounds right

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I'm pretty sure any aggressive booster will do, just forgot what the ranges for the aggressive boosters were

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I think it's 50-60% melee damage

hexed vapor
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You only need 100% melee damage for giant OHKO.

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on hammer

paper harness
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ah ok

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20x3x2

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I guess my steroids were always dog rolls

knotty barn
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yeah the spear with the crit bonus and the steroids makes it possible ^^. Though even without you can easily solo big boys by just jabbing them in the arms and legs, they go down fast with all those roids ^^.

hexed vapor
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And I think roids might have a rounding error still, so you usually want back head.

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To giants*

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Charger scout the angle is pretty lenient.

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Actually, you might be able to front kill.

last gust
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I've been front killing charger scouts with drug hammer for months now

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after at one point figuring "is rounding error really a thing? fuck it, let's try"

prisma zodiac
obtuse surge
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my hipfire

daring pilot
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Just take 100% infect resist lol

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Wait does that work?

atomic escarp
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Yes

daring pilot
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ok funni idea time

atomic escarp
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Dont collect all the diseases

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They won't let you name it

burnt goblet
heavy blade
daring pilot
#

imma have to hard disagree on that one

kind swan
#

Yeah... gonna have to hard disagree as well

pliant pasture
#

same, going to disagree hard on this point

twin dirge
#

the ending of B3PE is just skill issue
C2PE is just pain no matter how good you are

fair fern
# heavy blade Man B3 PE is SOOOO much worse

Nope, the end of B3 PE is not that hard. 1 need to hold the fog turbine until 1 member of the team run out of ammo, the member with no ammo left will then pick up the fog tubine. At the last part use the fog repeller and drop the fog tubine. The guy with the cargo just need to remember to drop the cargo to give support fire and then pick it up . bio is the most important job sooo yea, its just skill issuse and how your team communicate

#

just remember to stop drop shoot pickup move

atomic escarp
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To be fair, all things considered, I think the end of B3 PE is way harder than anything else that map has to offer

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I'm not criticizing the map but I always think of anything before that as mere background noise

real moss
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I agree the map is just a build up to the actual challenge which is the overload ending of the map

atomic escarp
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The last room is fantastic, I'll say that

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If the map was a costant descent from waterways to dig site and then waterway again ending with that room it'd be very atmospheric

real moss
fair fern
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where am i?

Screenshot_20221127_065209.png
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i join someone lobby and then leave

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and i dont know where am i?

strange junco
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how did you even get rundown 4

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what

earnest marten
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And there's no e1 there either

real moss
earnest marten
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that would make a bit more sense

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could say that it's a bit deeper compared to the rest of them

bold widget
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where is d3 and d4

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what is this cursed image

daring pilot
bold widget
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oh wait nvm wrong rundown

heavy blade
heavy blade
daring pilot
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i mean have you played C2PE?

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It has a ton of fog

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Esp on overload

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Did it bug for you?

fair fern
hidden crater
fair fern
hidden crater
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thats... weird

kind swan
# heavy blade The entire rundown is background to b3 pe

What you hate about B3PE is the fact you have to carry 2 items and depending if your team relies on sentries as well. Is a lot of management in the spicy Fog. But that fog isn't as bad as you put it out to be. When you're constantly running in it in C2PE if you dont manage your fog repellers well

kind surge
# fair fern where am i?

technically all of the broken rundowns are currently in the game's datablocks. the person you joined was modding to enable them.

kind swan
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Not to mention if you take the downstairs route instead of turn left through the doors straight to the bridge

fair fern
kind swan
obtuse cedar
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R4 seems to be the most common to be pointed to for some reason

kind swan
fair fern
# kind swan Fog turbine management

Usually u dont drop the fog turbine until u are at the extraction scan unless 3 other are really bad at shooting or if there are too much stuff coming

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I actually think bio is needed because we cant see incoming

atomic escarp
fair fern
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But yea, its still easier than c2 pe

kind swan
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Bio as again. Is nice but not needed

atomic escarp
#

To be fair I've only done that with bio

obtuse cedar
atomic escarp
#

But I don't think it's unfeasible without it if players know what they need to do

kind swan
#

another is. Given newer players. Not experienced ones. Most tend to struggle at first dealing with hordes of enemies infront

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Like 1-6m infront

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I suppose another is learning how to properly hipfire with specific weapons

atomic escarp
obtuse surge
#

the limited visibility makes latency a lot more important

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you'll feel a lot more useful at the end of R7B3 if you have less latency

kind swan
heavy blade