balance-feedback-discussion

[alpine plover]

so, you want an increase or a decrease of agility?

[fresh laurel]

when i say revert it means increase lol

[alpine plover]

yeah but i don't know the u3 level

[fresh laurel]

Oh you didnt play update 3 utah?

[alpine plover]

started recently

[stray venture]

yeah like hadrosaurs

and other less armored and armed dinosaurs

[golden coral]

It would be hilarious if they did buff utah for current roster, only for it to later on kill trikes and shants in pairs in a few minutes because they have no way to defend themselves xD

[dusky surge]

utah is actually really damn good, issue is most of the roster is pretty well designed for kicking its ass

[half girder]

we dont even have actual utah, relax guys

[dusky surge]

i dont see what that has to do with anything lmao

[half girder]

this utah is fine rn, any buffs would defeat the purpose of adding actual utah

this utah would just beat it at everything it does

i mean a stam regen buff wouldnt be bad though

[hollow canyon]

Deino's blood pool isn't "doubled", it's just that it has a 50% bleed resistance

[alpine plover]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[hollow canyon]

so you could call that "doubling" the blood pool if you want but it's not really the amount of blood, it's just how little bleed does to Deino when compared to other animals

[stray venture]

I still dont get the point of adding an actual utah just seems like its getting added so paleo nerds don't complain as much.

[half girder]

me neither lol but oh well, they must love more work

[stray venture]

now we have 53 dinos

more roster inflation lets goooo

[hollow canyon]

Wdym? Utah hardly had any changes. Carno was a meme in update 4 against any player that played the game using their hands.

You wanting to reverse Utah is basically wanting Deino and chicken back on its diet

which I mean... I guess it could be better in some way than Ptera and rabbit but... it hardly makes a difference?

[dusky surge]

People liked it when carno was a giant fast scavenger rather than an actual threat

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I've noticed

[wise sparrow]

Carno's stats were fine for the most part, if it was put in this update it would still shit on everything if played right.

I think what made carno so bad was how literally every prey item larger than a dryo had a counter to its speed, which was stuns. The fact that stuns are far less spamable now mean U4 carno could actually work really well with a couple tweaks (U4 carno food drain was stupidly fast).

Honestly I would've changed the stuns and looked at how carno performed before buffing the ever loving fuck out of its mobility and growth

I'd rather fundamentally change how stuns work so they are more interactive instead of just slapping some bandaid fix of a cooldown

[fresh laurel]

Turning radius revert to up3

[fresh laurel]

How would a interactive stun work?

while still being fair for the victim...

[wise sparrow]

Give the player loose control over their dino so you can scramble out of the way of someone who isn't aiming well.

[fresh laurel]

So like if a pachy knocked Utah down, Utah can still move but if its hit again...

[wise sparrow]

Okay so, a pachy rams a utah, that utah can scramble around until the stagger ends, forcing the pachy to still have to follow the utah but not give the utah any reward for being stunned. If its hit again it would still be thrown away but the stun would not reset or stack.

It would force people to still aim and use their brain while still letting stun be a powerful tool

[fresh laurel]

Would scrambling around be rolling on the floor?

like exactly what?

[hollow canyon]

update 4 Carno wouldn't be catching anything(aside from maybe Pachy cause that thing is even worse than that iteration of Carno). Teno would also clap it with ease no questions asked.

[wise sparrow]

More like scooting around trying to get back up with its arms while still moving.
There are videos of buffalo ragdolling thing that are pretty close to what I'm talking about

[hollow canyon]

I mean it could catch complete halfwits but no competent player would be dying to that thing as anything aside from maybe Pachy

[fresh laurel]

Update 4 Carno ram though was still very worth landing

[hollow canyon]

It was worth landing but no competent player will let a Carno charge them

[fresh laurel]

Mostly due to how they wouldnt stand near a spot Carno could ambush them

[hollow canyon]

It's like... I genuinely don't understand how someone can get hit by this ability unless they are swarmed by Carnos and it's literally impossible to keep track of all of them

With update 4 Carno you had 3 seconds+ to react from the moment it started running at you

if you don't notice it that's a serious skill issue

[fresh laurel]

I mean with the forest reductions and creatures having their fov more zoomed in I think that already is a change that benefits carno the most

[dusky surge]

i'll be honest, the turn radius could do with tuning down

with the accel buff, a carno can more easily change direction and resume the chase

[hollow canyon]

I'd tune down the acceleration if anything

[dusky surge]

the turn radius doesn't need to be higher, the acceleration compliments carno far better

[wise sparrow]

Honestly carnos walking turn buffs would've been fine if it didn't keep speed so easily with its ass deceleration.
The second it let's go of shift it gets better turning, but it also keeps its speed so it basically is a buff to running turn

[dusky surge]

idk, i kinda like the high accel, it makes for really fun ambushes and i find it compliments carno well

[hollow canyon]

This is Carno's running turn rate

[dusky surge]

all i want is a standing turnrate reduction personally

[hollow canyon]

I vehemently disagree

that's literally the only thing about the animal that shouldn't be touched

[fresh laurel]

Yea but drift for some reason seems I dunno more better?

[wise sparrow]

A standing turn rate nerf does jack shit

[dusky surge]

it reduces its capability in a face-to-face brawl

[wise sparrow]

When have you ever seen a carno stop walking in a brawl?

[hollow canyon]

Better question is - what exactly do you see Carno facetanking on this patch?

[wise sparrow]

I mean pachy

[hollow canyon]

Cause Teno turns it into a salad if Carno dares to do that

I mean Pachy isn't supposed to facetank a Carno

It's supposed to fracture it and get out

[fresh laurel]

Utah, Pachy, our lord and savior Hypsi, Dryo and Ptera

[hollow canyon]

the issue is that Pachy itself turns like garbage, its fractures are unreliable and the godlike tracking doesn't let it lose the fractured Carno

[wise sparrow]

I mean more it can run face first into a pachy ram and get the very devastating body fracture

[hollow canyon]

which can simply follow it till world ends

[fresh laurel]

What if we keep carnos walking turn buffs but make its drift last longer?

by like one second...

[dusky surge]

also i have to agree with your assessment on carno's bleed and tracking

playing teno really makes you feel how fucking hard you bleed for a single carno bite

[hollow canyon]

Yea although Teno puts out even more bleed

Idk I'd cut down on bleed for at least Carno for now

[wise sparrow]

With pachy's amazing blood pool if you get bit once you will not be regenerating any stam for a while

[hollow canyon]

but I don't think that kick should be doing that much either

[fresh laurel]

I killed a pachy as a utah even with body fracture, funniest thing that I ever did as Utah in battle lmao

[dusky surge]

tracking is stupid rn btw

[hollow canyon]

Yea tracking is just... something else

This level of tracking should be available to only a few, very specific animals

that are specialised trackers/endurance hunters

[wise sparrow]

Why download esp hacks if you can just press q?

[hollow canyon]

imo Cerato is the only one that should be this good at tracking

[fresh laurel]

To be fair blood pools are based on hp iirc so like Pachy has 500 hp in blood

[fossil sun]

Teno should do more damage with a tail slam then a kick like the updates before this one

[hollow canyon]

that's right, the issue isn't Pachy's blood pool, it's how much bleed Carno puts out

[hollow canyon]

lol no

[wise sparrow]

Fuckin hell soon stamina will be tied to fucking weight

[fresh laurel]

Everyone complaining about Pachy blood pool when Utahs have it worst

[wise sparrow]

At this rate we are gonna get the incredibly fun weight=damage system

[dusky surge]

able to highlight a specific set of tracks to hunt: good
seeing tracks through plants and obstacles: good
tracks being cut apart so you have to find the next set: good
having a big fucking cone that complete negates the thing i just brought up: why lmao
being able to continually track while sprinting: what the fuck
never really ever losing the tracks or having a condition to fail the tracking: dear fucking god

[fresh laurel]

Brings back 150N Utah

[wise sparrow]

No, just no

[hollow canyon]

wait... what?

[fresh laurel]

Legacy momento

[hollow canyon]

You can CONTINUALLY track while SPRINTING?

[wise sparrow]

Yep.

[dusky surge]

as long as its highlighted i've literally SPRINTED and found the trracks

[hollow canyon]

I will admit I've only ever bothered to track things like once or twice this patch

[dusky surge]

like you can fucking book it after the prey and as long as you highlighted them blue, feel free to sprint

[hollow canyon]

but damn that's some next level stuff

[bright cargo]

Meanwhile herbi can't even sniff plants while walking

[hollow canyon]

Carno has 3 issues as I stated - the bleed, the hitbox and the ability to group, tracking is more so a global problem but then again it's most visible with Carno too

[wise sparrow]

The only hope for pachy to get away from a solo carno is to get a leg fracture AND a head fracture and then run to a jungle. Even then its not guaranteed

[hollow canyon]

And as I said - I think it would be fine for Cerato to track this well although it depends on what that animal ends up being in the end

[hollow canyon]

Won't help tbh

You'd need mud somewhere close by

otherwise you will get tracked by any decent player

[wise sparrow]

Against more than 1 carno, just force log at that point

I love how carno can group to fucking three

[fresh laurel]

Herbivores new scent anyone?

• Can somewhat smell if something was in the area recently instead of footprints (only if footprints are somewhat near to avoid Herbies hunting you down....)
• Smelling food and mega packs while walking :D

[hollow canyon]

And yet there's always half a dozen+ of them

I don't think herbivores should be able to scent people

they should be able to sniff while walking though

[fresh laurel]

The area

[wise sparrow]

And then group limits do fuckall because herbivores have to smell the star first and that takes them a solid 2 minutes

[dusky surge]

here's what i'd do for tracking
-remove the cone. You can literally just follow the tracks, they're not hard to do
-if you move far enough away from the tracks, you lose the scent and they're no longer blue
-you can see the next pair of tracks from further away the slower you move, sprinting making them invisible

[fresh laurel]

not people directly but instead the area (like a faint smell of something)

[dusky surge]

since bleed tracking is already extremely viable, there is no reason footprint tracking should be this good

[wise sparrow]

Just get rid of track sent as a whole.
Give me broken twigs, dug up diet food, Marks on the ground or trees.

[fresh laurel]

What if they made the cone bigger instead of flat out removing so its less accurate

[hollow canyon]

Matter of fact I think that different animals should be better at footpring tracking and some others should be better at bleed tracking

[dusky surge]

interesting take, i like it

[hollow canyon]

It could bring some interesting differences among the playables

[wise sparrow]

Make it so you actually have to track prey

[fresh laurel]

Mono having best sniff with Rex ayo?

[hollow canyon]

And it would be nice if there were different methods of covering tracks and stopping bleeding

You'd go for different things depending on what you're being tracked by

Carno specifically should be garbage at both

[spare badger]

Being that good at smelling tracks should be exclusive to something like mono and rex
Sniffing while running and seeing it through objects smh

[hollow canyon]

Utah I think should be a bleed tracker

Cerato - footprint tracker

That's just how I see it though

[spare badger]

I don't see cerato as a tracker of footprints
It should be able to smell carcasses well though

[hollow canyon]

I see it as an endurance hunter

[wise sparrow]

Cera should just have great corpse sent and be able to tell if danger is in the general vicinity

[hollow canyon]

that doesn't rely on bleed but instead relies on just mauling its prey

[deft blaze]

I feel like cerato is going to be more of a bully or scavenger

[wise sparrow]

Aken cera is going to be a corpse bully scavenger iirc

[hollow canyon]

I mean Cerato is definitely going to eat just about everything but the whole bully thing just doesn't work cause the animal is tiny

I mean it will probably be able to bully things like Dilos or Utahs but

[wise sparrow]

I mean honey badgers make it work

[hollow canyon]

if a Carno or Teno sees it

[hollow canyon]

because it's real life and not a game, they also have a completely different anatomy than Cerato does

[fresh laurel]

So uh can we see bleeders have an exclusive smell mechanic where they can tell if your blood pool is getting lower, like its darker the lower it gets so if you are at 5% bleed left then your blood to a giga or Utah seems almost black

[wise sparrow]

Of course it shouldn't be brawling allo but it should be able to make one question, "is this meal worth this fuckery?"

[wise sparrow]

...we literally have head ramming carno, tail slamming teno, acrobat utah, and more. Nothing about these animals physiologically matters in this game.

[hollow canyon]

Cerato realistically doesn't have the brunt to brawl much, at best it could maybe have a go at a Bary

It's not about physiology, it's about how small this animal is

With honey badgers in real life

most predators simply think that the hurt that having a go at that little mustelid would cause them isn't worth it

honey badger isn't really a go to prey item of any animals

if a leopard really wanted to kill one it could but it's just not worth it, most animals want to avoid being in pain, meanwhile in the game - unless we can get people to get electrocuted or something every time their animal gets hit I don't see what would stop them from just chomping the smaller animal

[wise sparrow]

Should cera be able to pick up meat chunks at full sprint?

[hollow canyon]

That sounds cool

[fresh laurel]

But since this is in a game, most players would just have to know that if it can be face tanked then its fine to kill it

[wise sparrow]

We could add that. Get stabbed, battered, or slashed depending on what happens to your dino

[fresh laurel]

Unless you make Allo not be able to face tank cera then I dont think any allo player cares if Cera is a hard to put down dinosaur

[wise sparrow]

You die in the isle you die in real life

[hollow canyon]

Kind of, yea, I think there's a tonne of cool stuff that Cerato can do without breaking immersion by facetanking an animal twice or three times its size

[wise sparrow]

The Isle. You must survive it.

[fresh laurel]

Good bye Carno players

Hope you find your last braincell

[wise sparrow]

Give cera absurd endurance, just running around larger predators until their too tired to defend their meal

[fresh laurel]

Hear me out...

Make cera bite harder than allo

While giving allo plenty more advantages

Like bleed

[fresh laurel]

[spare badger]

Carno definitely too good at turning rn imo

[ocean wagon]

no its not?

[hollow canyon]

Going by the same logic, same list for Teno:

1 trot speed in the game
1 swimming speed in the game
2 in hp
2 in weight
1 in bleed
1 in the rate of applying CC
1 in bite speed(and attack speed in general)

And no - Carno doesn't have the same run stam as Teno... where do you people even get these ideas from? Teno runs for 95 seconds, Carno runs for 60 seconds

[hollow canyon]

if you turn harder you will come to a stop due to skidding

[ocean wagon]

i was replying to Lvl dino by using your video as example

[hollow canyon]

Oh, I see

yea, fair then, I think he was talking about the standing turn though

or walking

[ocean wagon]

carno should have okaish turning while standing though?

it should only have bad turning while running

[hollow canyon]

I believe that every animal should have at least okayish turn rate while standing

[ocean wagon]

right

if we dont then we get as riding in legacy

[keen plover]

I think Carno just needs bleed nerfs, and to give other playables buffs and see where we go from there. Maybe reduce teno tail slam costs. Give pachy back its charge turn radius

Carnos movement is fine imo. That’s how it should move

[hollow canyon]

Teno only needs a tailslam cost reduction because this specific attack is just kind of bad, it's not that it needs this buff to be viable, it's just to give it some more spice. Honestly if you took it out of Teno's kit altogether and left Teno like that it would still be viable

[keen plover]

Yeah it’s still great.

[hollow canyon]

Pachy is a different pair of shoes altogether, firstly it needs a buff to its turn rates, that thing just can't turn like animal of that size should be turning

[keen plover]

True on that

It was meant to be anti utah yet Utahs can out turn them pretty easily

[hollow canyon]

I mean even if you reverted Carno back to update 4 it would still murder the current pachy, the goddamn thing can tailride Pachy while in full spring cause Pachy is just that bad at turning

[keen plover]

Well not easily but

Still, the turning isn’t good and can give Utahs easy hits off

[hollow canyon]

Also - people have to stop screeching about Carno having the highest bite speed in the game

[ocean wagon]

this person just made a while tier list about how carno (a small game hunter) has the tools to hunt small game

[hollow canyon]

I will make a bit of a newslfash here, it might be a shocker but... pretty much all the attacks in the game have THE SAME attack rate

Utah bites as fast as Carno

Tenonto bites as fast as Carno

Tenonto KICKS as fast as Carno bites

Tenonto TAILSLAMS as fast as Carno bites

all those attacks have an effective cooldown of 1 second

I think there might be some exceptions to this rule but I haven't tested everything yet

Deino I expect to be biting slower than that

[spare badger]

Not turning itself, but drifting and getting to full speed
The acceleration buff was a bit much

I played around with carno and it felt wrong
It was fine beforehand I think (the acceleration)

[keen plover]

Carnos whole point is being a speed demon. Acceleration is a part of that

[hollow canyon]

I will test how much faster it accelerates now, but I expect that its acceleration may have gotten better by a second at most perhaps

[spare badger]

That is true
But it still doesn't change the fact it makes carno too good at turning

[hollow canyon]

I haven't experienced any difference when fighting a Carno with regard to its acceleration

[spare badger]

At least that's how it felt when the update came out

[spare badger]

I tried messing about with Utah and they are definitely much harder to get away from than before

It doesn't effect fights with teno much at all

[hollow canyon]

I haven't had any issues getting away from them, I did die to one after a long fight because I bugged out while pouncing it though

Then again - 1v1ing a Carno as a Utah is how I typically die with utah

[keen plover]

Honestly. Getting a Carno off your back as a pachy is my only greivance with the thing. Like stated earlier, it needs an overall turn buff in running, standing still and charge

Pachy that is*

[hollow canyon]

I think Pachy just needs more blunt damage tbh

[ocean wagon]

huh? wdym "not turning itself, but drifting" you literally said "Carno definitely too good at turning rn imo"

[spare badger]

I put drifting under the 'turning' umbrella

Sorry for not clarifying

[hollow canyon]

It's like... it will never be a fair fight for Utah(and it shouldn't be) Carno is what's supposed to be hunting Utahs, this isn't some match up where the two are supposed to be having a relatively even chance in that fight

I haven't had any issues getting away from Carnos as a Utah on this patch, killing them is a completely different matter

I don't think it's really doable 1v1

I think 2v1 would be really, really goddamn hard

[spare badger]

It's not
Utah shouldn't be 1v1ing carno unless the carno is really bad

But even then

[hollow canyon]

3v1 is absolutely doable depending on how much the pounce screws you over

[keen plover]

Even then, 3 v 1 is still Carno favoured

I wouldn’t risk it unless you’re fighting an obviously bad Carno

[ocean wagon]

as it should?

[hollow canyon]

Idk tbh

3v1 might be slightly Carno favoured

[keen plover]

I didn’t state it was a bad thing

[hollow canyon]

when I was testing it against 3 people that I know I was very close to death

and that was with one of them dying very early on in the fight

although he did get the pounce off for some time there so

[keen plover]

Imo, if a Carno has another Carno buddy. Avoid the fight overall even if you have a full pack imo. Well unless they’re god awful

[hollow canyon]

With a full fight I think it should be doable even vs 2 Carnos although... yea it's just not a very good match up for Utahs

you need to recharge your stam mid fight probably more than once

[keen plover]

Yeah and even then. A decent amount of you will die. So in a survival sense- bad idea

[hollow canyon]

Idk I've played a bit of Utah and we took on some Carnos when I grouped with other Utahs but yea it's a tough fight

We have actually managed not to lose a person when fighting a pair

But yea tbh I felt like I was about to die half a dozen of times there and it was really close

it's not a fight I'd be willingly taking on unless I was really looking for some adrenaline

[keen plover]

I remember this one time- essentially 2 groups of Utahs were trying to fight 3 carnos. I just avoided the fight since it was pretty much suicide

Pretty much all of them died

[hollow canyon]

I think it might also depend on the skill of Utahs?

[keen plover]

Oh yeah

[hollow canyon]

on another occassion 2 Carnos just butchered my entire pack

with everybody just running around like headless chickens

[keen plover]

They were a group of randoms so that’s why I avoided fighting lol

Even then- highly skilled carnos won’t lose especially in a trio

Since they’ll never let each other get pounced for long. If at all

[hollow canyon]

trio is way too much, I'd say that highly skilled might even be too much in a duo but idk, Idk if I could ever tell that I was up against a "highly skilled Carno"

It's like... they either get clapped or they're in a massive pack where their skill doesn't matter all that much

I do know there are better and worse Carnos though

Although to be fair the one thing that I kind of agree with Wyatt about is that there should be a bigger stam difference between the other playables and Carno I think

and by that I probably mean that all the other terrestrial animals should have longer run times

the current ones are:
95 seconds Tenonto
105 seconds Utah
105 seconds Pachy

I'd personally probably get Tenonto up to either 105 seconds or 110 seconds and Utah+Pachy up to 120-125

Although idk it might make at least Teno a bit too good I guess, I'd have to do some testing to make up my mind about this

[keen plover]

Yeah those 3 are the ones directly feeling the 'carno pressure'

Since carnos run time is like a minute? It was like 52-53 seconds in Update 4 release

And since it has way more speed, and a decent trot. A carno running for close to a minute can keep up with a utah for its whole stam. If it sees it the whole time*

Since going between trotting and sprinting makes you essentially have stam when the utah has none

[hollow canyon]

Nah, not really, Utah will definitely cover far more ground than Carno if both are sprinting

[keen plover]

The tracking system helps from my experience

Since you just sniff their footprints, trot after them, run a bit to keep sight

[hollow canyon]

it's just maths basically, you can calculate how much distance each covers per second and then multiply that by their running time

[keen plover]

Yeah I get the maths to it, but I was talking what it meant in game where you can run them out of stam if you keep sight of them

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto being the closest one to Carno covers more distance with its whole stam pool

Utah specifically outperforms all the others and covers the most

Pachy tbh is so pathetic that it could probably be endurance hunted ngl

[keen plover]

It can, you kind of need to stand your ground initially and hit them

Or run into some forests to crouch in

Never just run from a carno if you're in the open, pretty much suicide

[hollow canyon]

I was actually wrong - Carno and Tenonto don't have the highest bite speed in the game

...Stego does of all things for some reason

it has an attack cooldown on its bite which is slightly shorter than 1 second

marginally shorter but nevertheless from what I can see it bites the fastest in the game, it seems like its animation sometimes gets clunky when it's biting really fast

its tail attack however has a subpar attack speed which is lower than those of all the other animals

[keen plover]

Do people really want carnos main tool to be slower? wtf

[hollow canyon]

Deino has the lowest attack rate of any animal in the game, its normal bite is significantly slower than anything else

the cooldown on Deino's normal bite is some 1.4-1.5 seconds

Alt bite is the same as the bites of all the other animals - they have a 1 sec cooldown

I think Wyatt was more so trying to say that Carno has too many good things going for itself

but a list like that is really disingenuous

especially that he's just dead wrong about a number of things there

[alpine plover]

@azure crescent I'm sure they won't revert all carno buffs but even tho, they shouldn't revert all of them

[azure crescent]

carno was perfect pre 4.5

[alpine plover]

No

[azure crescent]

what buff would you say shouldn’t be reverted

[alpine plover]

The acceleration, cause speed is carno main point, what should be reverted is the turn speed, cause as everybody knows a truck going at 100 kmh can't turn like a racing car @azure crescent

[keen plover]

Carno only needs a bleed nerf and juvie diets.

[azure crescent]

fair enough i forgot about the acceleration

[alpine plover]

Juvie diet should be for every carnivore, but why bleed?

[azure crescent]

but in UP4 carno was really good if you knew how to use it

[alpine plover]

Like all of them...

[keen plover]

Because carno isn't meant to be a bleeder. It's a damage kind of playable, that ambushes and kills quickly. Bleed lets it stay in fights longer, and limits the defenders chance to regen stam

[alpine plover]

But carno does shit bleed

[azure crescent]

because 1 it’s nearly on par with utah and 2 abelisaurids are adapted to deal blunt force to small game

[azure crescent]

it does not

[keen plover]

It does not.

[alpine plover]

I've never been bleed out by a carno

[azure crescent]

i bled out to carnos more than utahs in this patch

[alpine plover]

With which playable?

[azure crescent]

anything except deino and stego

[keen plover]

What were you? Also it isn't about dying to bleed. It stops you from being able to regen stam

[alpine plover]

With how many bites did you bleed out

[azure crescent]

i don’t remember as carno but as utah my blood was LOW when i escaped after 2 bites

[alpine plover]

But you can't remove bleeding from every playable not specialize in bleeding

[azure crescent]

hes saying to nerf the bleed, not remove it

[alpine plover]

I cant really give my opinion on that, I die to carnos to soon to know if they do good bleed

[azure crescent]

what do you often play as when you experience that?

[alpine plover]

With utahs i mean, I never survive so I haven't experience bleeding out by a carno

[keen plover]

It's not dying to them again. Bleed directly affects stamina regen. Carnos bleed output messes with it

[alpine plover]

As I said I die too soon to experience any bleed debuffs

[keen plover]

Play as a teno. You'll see what the bleed does

[alpine plover]

@vale harness oh yes, is so weird carno is in the first place in most stats excluding stego and deino.... Maybe because carno is the biggest playable after stego and deino, but I guess that is too hard to figure it out by yourself, when all mid tiers are in the game, carno will be only in the first place in speed

And carno doesn't have the same run time teno has, carno stam is the worst in the game, even stego can run more time than carno

And finally, the other playables don't have shit stam, only carno, that the other playables use more stam when fighting is a different thing, carno is the only playable with a shit stamina pool

[eager ledge]

I’ve been out stamed before by a carno I was a Utah and had to trot in to a bush and keep dodging while trotting In a bush luckily I regained enough stam bolt out of the bush to reach the tree line funny thing is I never pounced so my stam wasn’t dained before I was hunted so don’t say carno is the only one that has shit stamina

[keen plover]

It isn't about stam. Carno has a better top speed and trot than utah. Sure the base stam is way less than utah, but the other factors let a carno keep up with a utah

[eager ledge]

They just need to increase run on a Utah it’s ridiculously low run right now even when not pounceing

[eager ledge]

Time I’m talking about not speed forgot to add this

[keen plover]

Yeah I could see that. Or alternatively, give utah its short climb ability like shown in concepts + the trees for it, rocks etc. So in the plains, it has options to avoid carnos

[carmine patrol]

it can still run the same distance as teno

[alpine plover]

That is impossible if both of you had full stam

[alpine plover]

Yes and?

That is not what wyatt said

And I don't think that is true either, I'm sure you haven't test it, so don't say things you don't really know

[carmine patrol]

I actually did, I wouldn't have said that if I hadn't

teno can run like 10 meters more than carno

[alpine plover]

Ok, I take that back

But It still means nothing to me

Carno stam can't be nerf, it is shit already

And teno stam cant be buffed, just reduce tail slam stam use

@sonic needle you are a man of culture

[sonic needle]

thx 😄

[carmine patrol]

@sonic needle pls tell me that you were being sarcastic

[alpine plover]

Why would he be sarcastic, obviously you can't say carno is op because 3 of them killed you

[sonic needle]

bro do you even think a bit into the future if T rex would be in the Game. Ppl would complain that the t rex only needs 2 Headshots against the stego and they would whine about it again. Just look in the Nature go a bit outside. every Herbivore is in a Group to protect eachother. If your alone then your already dead.

[alpine plover]

Dryo is op, 5 of them can kill a lonely utah

[carmine patrol]

he said that herbis need more nerfs

[alpine plover]

Ah

[sonic needle]

stego

[alpine plover]

But he said just stevo tho, not all of them

[alpine plover]

Oh

[sonic needle]

only stego needs a ner

nerf

[old hull]

i just really hope that if these stego nerf demands get heard that they go alongside some croc changes , mostly just the stupid amount of health that thing has because you just had to tie health and weight together didnt you , make the damn thing actually killable by the land dinos and it will want to stay in the water

[hasty coyote]

The only thing that can kill an adult croc is an adult stego. Unless the croc is brain dead of course.

[turbid needle]

There's really no need to nerf anything. You have to think about current Dinos as if there were the Rex/Spino for example. If they were there, it wouldn't be the Stego or the Deino that would be targeted by players for a nerf.

[azure crescent]

there's a reason to nerf carno though, and that is the fact that it literally isn't made for turning that fast

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I want slight herbie buffs, baby carni diet nerfs or herbie diet changes, and carno nerfs. However, I want the carno nerfs to come later so we don’t have the triple nerf like this update.

[azure crescent]

agreed

[keen plover]

Triple nerfs incoming

[hasty coyote]

Not again

[turbid needle]

If he didn't spin like he does when stopping, he'd get killed by all the other Dinos his size. While if the other Dinos play well, they are more than capable of killing the Carno

[void ferry]

hello everyone

[hasty coyote]

Pachy still needs help with its bash, its stam, and tracking

[turbid needle]

Pachy need buff

[hasty coyote]

Half the bashes don’t hit, you break the wrong bone, carnos can tail ride, even if you break the right bone carnos can just tank it and run you down, and scent is wall hacks.

[turbid needle]

And a bugfix on the headbutt attack

[neat forge]

@hexed sorrel it we think realistic do you think Utah Was mainly Biting its Prey when it was bigger then itself??
The isle is a Survival game after all

[hasty coyote]

Pachy v utah is in a decent spot at least. I killed all 3 in a 1v3 against a bad pack but nearly died if the last one bit again. Then only killed 1 in a 1v3 against a good pack. Btw I was on a rock with 1 way up and was guarding it

[turbid needle]

Do we agree that Pachy's headbutt doesn't go away sometimes?

[hasty coyote]

You mean you bash something, it takes no damage, but you lose your stam?

Or you hold the charge and it doesn’t go back down?

[turbid needle]

Charge doesn't go back down

[hasty coyote]

I haven’t dealt with that issue much myself, unless my ribs are broken.

[void ferry]

hello

everyone

[hasty coyote]

Hello

[void ferry]

how can i get the isle game for free?

if anyone knows please tell

[hasty coyote]

I don’t think you can, plus this is the wrong channel for that type of question

[void ferry]

The reason I'm asking this question here is because the people playing the game are here

[turbid needle]

I don't know if it's a bug, but many times I couldn't use the headbutt. My Pachy just stopped attacking

[hollow canyon]

it's not even first in many things he stated there, a tonne of that is just outright misinformation due to him being wrong about it.

E.g. Carno does not have the second highest bleed and neither does it have the highest bite speed.

Posts like that are basically the result of what happens when you state things based on how you "feel" they are in the game instead of checking how they are.

I could probably make a longer list like that about Tenonto without artificially increasing its length by separating HP and weight into two different stats despite the fact that they are the same on all the playables.

[hasty coyote]

Hmm I generally try to jump, bash the ground, and eat. If those don’t work then just relog. Sometimes I can’t eat but reloging generally works.

[turbid needle]

Ok, i'll try it next time, thanks

[hasty coyote]

No problem, that my general strategy for stuff like that. Just spam any animations you can to see if that fixes it. If not then just relog.

[hexed sorrel]

wolves.

[slim dragon]

Wolves have no better option tho

[carmine patrol]

Wolves have teeth used for grabbing so they can bite and keep holding on until the prey item falls and then they start eating, unlike utah which only bites but doesn't grab

I'd compare utah to lions tbh

[neat forge]

https://tenor.com/view/wow-just-wow-car-amazed-gif-15654953

[half girder]

really asking for a utah bite buff…

[alpine plover]

You are agreeing with me, right?

[hollow canyon]

Yea, that whole post to which you were replying

is just... Idk wrong about like half the stuff there?

The one thing I'd agree with is probably that the other playables should have a bit longer run times compared to Carno

but that's about it

[alpine plover]

Ok

[hollow canyon]

I'd add some 5-10 seconds of runtime to Teno

[spare badger]

^^

[hollow canyon]

a bit more to Pachy and Utah

[spare badger]

Teno only needs stam (and kick hitbox) changes

[hollow canyon]

with Pachy specifically I think the issue is that the ram just eats up stamina too fast

[alpine plover]

I don't know why you would run instead of fight but, ok

[spare badger]

3 carnos roll up

[hollow canyon]

I mean I just think that 95 seconds is a bit low

for Teno

It's reliant on stamina for fighting so it wouldn't hurt if it could run a bit further than that

[alpine plover]

I don't think running can save you from 3 carnos

[hollow canyon]

It can actually

but you need to have water nearby

[spare badger]

Get to a forest it can

Hopefully through a forest and to a river

Has worked in the past for me

[hollow canyon]

as long as Teno has water nearby Carno can't do anything to it

[alpine plover]

That's fine untill we get a forest river predator, like cera

[spare badger]

Cera isn't touching teno

[hollow canyon]

I don't think Cerato will be that big of a threat to Teno tbh

[alpine plover]

Or worst in the long future, with sucho and spino

[spare badger]

Cera gets knocked down by teno

[hollow canyon]

Yea Teno is too hard hitting, Cerato could maybe take it down if it gets Teno to use up stamina

[spare badger]

They are big and easy to avoid so won't really be an issue

[alpine plover]

I know, obviously an average cera cant beat a teno

[hollow canyon]

but other than that - kick/slam knockdown into a combo of kicks onto its head and Cerato gets squashed like a fly

[spare badger]

If teno gets 1 hit cera is done

Slam and kick knock it over and kicks to the head will obliterate the thing

[hollow canyon]

I guess what I'm saying is that imo Tenonto should use slightly less stamina while running

adding some 5-10 seconds wouldn't hurt anyone

Utah and Pachy could use a bit longer runtimes too just a bit longer

[alpine plover]

That we cant know, i guess the most damage teno should do to cera, is 1/3 of the health if you kick the head

[spare badger]

What I would change to teno:

1. Increase running stamina
2. Decrease stamina cost of slam
3. Fix Kick's hitbox
   That's it

[hollow canyon]

We know how much Cerato weighs more or less

[hollow canyon]

Yes to all of those but... I really don't think the kick hitbox is broken

I haven't had it malfunction a single time and I play this animal the most lately

[spare badger]

It's inconsistent
Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't

At least for me

[hollow canyon]

It always worked for me so far

Try to record it when it's malfunctioning or something

[alpine plover]

Increase runnig stamina sounds weird, decreasing stam lost per distance while running sounds better

[hollow canyon]

because the thing about this attack is that its hitbox is rather narrow

[hollow canyon]

isn't that... basically the same thing? Although yes you're right

It's basically about decreasing the stamina drain for running a bit

give Teno some 100-110 seconds of runtime and Pachy/Utah some 130 and it should be good

[alpine plover]

It means what he really wanted to say, I don't think you can increase "running stamina"

[hollow canyon]

Yea, you're right

[alpine plover]

@hexed sorrel why? Sounds weird a utah can kill a teno or something bigger with just bites

[thin mantle]

@sonic needle K so what is it about herbivores that specifically renders them unviable when alone, or rather what should. I can point you to several solitary herbivores that are capable af when protecting themselves, moose are a good example

Plus if you've designed your game so that your average herbivore requires a more numerous support system than the actual pack hunting carnivores you done fucked up

The fact that a teno has the capacity to fight off 3-5 raptors is a good thing

[sonic needle]

yeah and if its a group of Tenos or 2 or 3 of them a Pack of Utahs cant even kill one if they dont play it smart

but ok everyone has his own Opinion and its fine

[slim dragon]

Carnivores should be encouraged, if not forced, to play smart
They already control the engagement, they don't deserve to kill something bigger and stronger than themselves while playing dumb, herbivores are players too, they deserve fairness

[eager ledge]

If you consider that you are not running in a straight line you burn more stam when having to pull off crazy minvures the carno trotted every once in a while to try to catch me if I would’ve run in a straight line carno would’ve easily caught up and killed me with in the first 10 seconds because of carnos ridiculous turn that it has now you have no choice but to pull off crazy minuvures if you want to live that’s why I ran out of stam I burned through it quickly because I had to do crazy dodges Eather way Utah needs a running stam time buff

[vale harness]

is that like an argument? carno being the strongest in most categories is just like ok because it's carno...

[lone hamlet]

we can spot the carno mains here

[vale harness]

mmm ok. yea i should've just said 1 in weight/hp. even though weight effects stun duration and is completely separate except for the fact that they made the numbers the same.

idk why that disproves my point. that's 1 out of the entire list.

your second point is that carno doesn't deal the second most bleed. one bucked utah pounce will take 8% one carno bite takes 18%. one teno kick takes 25%. so basically it was just. trust me bro

[vale harness]

ikr

[hollow canyon]

In terms of bleed the way the game works atm - 1. Utah pounce 2. Teno kick 3. Carno bite

I could make the same list for Teno

[eager ledge]

The isle gives the real world carno to much credit the real tier dinosaur not a mid tier it may have wayed a bunch but the thing that would make the real world carno a low tier is that it was only specialized for killing tiny prey like dryo sized things also the real one could hardly turn while running because it’s stiff tail I never understood why the devs decided to make this thing a apex predator in game

[vale harness]

yea

[hollow canyon]

it has:

1. highest damage in the game
2. highest swimming speed
3. longest swimming stam

[alpine plover]

Is the biggest land predator, that is the argument, a valid one, carno is not the best in the stuff you said just because devs wanted it to be like that

[hollow canyon]

4. highest CC rate in the game

I can keep on going

[vale harness]

right... and that compares to the obvious stats that i stated? that's like 'well teno is OP too. you just have to be right next to water, and have no deinos. and hope you have stam

[alpine plover]

Yeah you can keep going, but it means nothing

[vale harness]

swim stam is not the same as speed, bite speed, hp, weight

[hollow canyon]

It does compare to the obvious stats you stated

[lone hamlet]

keep going then

[hollow canyon]

especially that as I said - the stats you stated are wrong

[lone hamlet]

but stats aren't all :)

the way teno deals damage is so bad

[vale harness]

so if deino was the fastest on land it would be fine because deino is the biggest, that's your argument

[lone hamlet]

and that is its weakness

[hollow canyon]

1 trot speed in the game
1 swimming speed in the game
2 in hp
2 in weight
1 in bleed
1 in the rate of applying CC
2 in bite speed(and attack speed in general)
1 longest swimming time in the game(longer than Deino

[vale harness]

carnos big might equal power. but the problem is carno is the fastest

so your point is nothing

[lone hamlet]

deino doesn't even lose stam when swimming

[hollow canyon]

Deino runs out of stamina after swimming for 60 seconds, Teno can swim for 200 seconds before it runs out of stam

[alpine plover]

You perfectly know what I meant

[hollow canyon]

I'm not talking about just staying on the surface, I'm talking about the sprint speed

[lone hamlet]

stop arguing with this guy, we know very well what he plays and how he dies by face bumping into 4 tenos

[alpine plover]

Is like you were complaining that brachi had the biggest health pool

[hollow canyon]

You don't need to bump into 4 Tenos to die as Carno, Teno wins 1v1 vs Carno if it's any good

[vale harness]

carnos the fastest and yet its stronger than it in 2 of the biggest categories. crazy. after that you say 2 in attack speed. not sure where you got that. utah is 2. and it's just water stats after that. tenos good in the water, that doesn't make carno not overtuned

[lone hamlet]

okay :)

maybe you, not me tho

[hollow canyon]

I mean if you're losing against Carnos 1v1 that's a skill issue

it's as simple as that

[lone hamlet]

definitely you then

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I don't lose to Carnos 1v1, you're right there

[vale harness]

your argument is carno isnt op because teno is strong in water

[hollow canyon]

It's "2" in attack speed because the attack speed of almost every attack in the game is the same

[vale harness]

except 1 dino that can bite at the speed of light

wonder which one that is

[hollow canyon]

It's not Carno I can tell you that much

the attack speed of Carno and Teno is the same

[alpine plover]

Stego tail swing is quite fast

[hollow canyon]

Teno outputs 1 bite/kick/slam per second

Carno bites once per second too

[vale harness]

you really wanna say that

[lone hamlet]

yeah guys, nerf teno

[hollow canyon]

There's one dino that does bite faster than that

[vale harness]

that's brave

[hollow canyon]

Stego's tail swing is actually slower than Teno's tailslam/Carno's bite

[vale harness]

saying carno bite is the same speed as tenos kick and slam is so easily disprovable, that's brave

[hollow canyon]

It has an attack rate of roughly once every 1.1 seconds if you attack sideways

[hollow canyon]

yes, it's so easily disprovable that you can provide me with a video of you attacking with both of them

I've literally checked it in the game

[lone hamlet]

that's not even the issue, carno bite is stamina less, while moving. The exact opposite for teno

[hollow canyon]

it's not my problem that your feefees are telling you otherwise

That's the general problem with your whole post - you speak about what you think the game works like and you're just dead wrong about it

[vale harness]

mmmm yea even though carno takes zero stam for its attacks. but if you truly think carno bite is the same speed as tenos kick then i got no reason to argue

not worth my time

[hollow canyon]

What in the world are you even talking about?

The stam use and attack rate are two different things

[vale harness]

teno takes stam for every attack besides the one that does 25 damge. carno just pops 175 every .6 seconds cause of its bite

[hollow canyon]

What in the world does stam use have to do with how fast you can attack?

Carno doesn't bite .6 seconds

[vale harness]

it doesn't. just another point that it has so few dowsides

[hollow canyon]

you have no idea what you're talking about

[vale harness]

which was my point overall

[hollow canyon]

You said Carno has the fastest bite speed in the game - it literally doesn't

it has the same bite rate as Teno and Utah

[lone hamlet]

honestly I think the carno main is right, it's definitely underpowered rn

[vale harness]

agreed. buff it

[hollow canyon]

A. I play more Teno than Carno

[lone hamlet]

yes :)

[hollow canyon]

B. I'm telling you how the game works

you're just dead wrong in your statements

[lone hamlet]

of course you do, you are in fact a teno main

[hollow canyon]

I play Teno, Carno and Deino the most

Carno is my third most played animal on this patch as we speak

[lone hamlet]

I can see that

[hollow canyon]

after Teno and Deino

Not that I have to explain what I play to you

[lone hamlet]

you just did tho

[hollow canyon]

You haven't brought a single argument to the table

[vale harness]

had a conversation with a qa member, in which he said he thought carnos bite should be slowed down, since it was the fastest. i have no idea how you can say im wrong, and make blind statemnets about how you're just right.. no evidence. just you're right

[lone hamlet]

I did but it's fine

[hollow canyon]

Idk what QA member you were talking to and I don't care for an opinion of a QA member that thinks that Carno should bite faster

perhaps it should but as it stands - it bites as fast as Teno and Utah do

[vale harness]

the QA team is literally there for testing and game balance

[hollow canyon]

let me give you some rather simple instructions - start a timer and bite with Carno as fast as you can - stop after 10 seconds and check how many times you've managed to bite

[vale harness]

that's their fucking job. i would trust a qa member more than me you or anyone else

[lone hamlet]

so what is your point with all of that exactly ? You think teno and carnos are balanced as it is ?

[hollow canyon]

My point?

[hasty coyote]

They could be testing things other than balance, like exploits. You don’t want people under the floor biting ur feet.

[hollow canyon]

Teno needs a stamina cost reduction on its tailslam down to ~7%, I'd also increase it's run time by 5-10 seconds.

Carno needs a fix to its broken hitbox and a lower bleed on its bite

[vale harness]

yea bugs, balance, new fetures, they test shit. that's qa's job

[hollow canyon]

I'd also introduce an anti-megapacking mechanic for Carnos

[lone hamlet]

so why are we arguing when we are on the same page

[hollow canyon]

#general-feedback message

[vale harness]

tail slam is useless. so why would reducing a useless attacks stam by 3% make it balanced

[hollow canyon]

Tailslam isn't useless?

[vale harness]

idk why i see this point so much. it's already basically unused. slightly reducing the stam cost wont fix shit

[hasty coyote]

It’s not useless, just niche with the stam costs

[hollow canyon]

I'm arguing against statements that are just dead wrong and complete misinformation

Carno, Teno and Utah all bite as fast as one another

[vale harness]

an attack that uses 100% of your stam to kill a carno is super usefull

[hollow canyon]

Teno's bite, tailslam and kick have the same attack rate

[hollow canyon]

Because you're not supposed to kill Carno with tailslams... what are you talking about?

[hasty coyote]

Exactly why dropping the stam cost will help it

[hollow canyon]

I mean you can but you'd have to land headshots or bodyshots

and even then its too costly

atm Teno needs 8 tailslam over Carno's body to kill it or 5 headshots to kill it

[lone hamlet]

fair enough, altho I think you are not taking in account the fact that stats aren't all that is taken into account. Yes teno has great stats but its real downside are his animations and attack hitboxes

[hollow canyon]

Teno's hitboxes are just fine, I haven't had them malfunction a single time since the patch came out, my only problem with the game is that Carnos get to pack up to those absurd numbers

[lone hamlet]

which are very hard to land without taking any damage in return

[hollow canyon]

I like to fight them 1v1

[vale harness]

...... crazy.... i got no words. it's clear whatever you want teno to be is far different than i want it to be

oh shit kavs here

[hollow canyon]

I mean you can kill a Carno with tailslam but... it's kind of counterproductive

[random prairie]

bro you have to be a dead brain carno main to even come close to getting kicked

[vale harness]

we love kav

[hollow canyon]

Yea, every Carno I fought is braindead I guess, including the QA members with whom I was testing it

If you can't land a kick on Carno then... that's kind of a skill issue I'd say

[vale harness]

[random prairie]

ah yes, the death match style of combat to prove that teno is in a good spot

[hollow canyon]

No, it's fine in survival too

Teno literally IS in a good spot

[lone hamlet]

I think the fact that only good players play teno because of its current difficulty, and anyone can play carno greatly influence this discussion in the wrong direction

I haven't seen one adult teno that wasn't a main

[hollow canyon]

I men Carno is the simplest animal in the game to play barring maybe Stego

Teno is definitely by far the most difficult one

by its very design

[lone hamlet]

that we can agree

[vale harness]

you have to have an iq below 70 to die to a teno as a carno

[hollow canyon]

if you don't have hands or like to play the game with your feet - go Carno

[hollow canyon]

Not going to disagree, Carno should disengage before it dies

[vale harness]

i played carno 3 times this update and i wiped a pack of 3 tenos each time

[lone hamlet]

not to mention that you playing teno as a good player is not a good example to use when talking about average

[hollow canyon]

I've played Carno a few times compared to Teno I did have a 1v3 against 3 Tenontos that were tailslamming each other and killed two of them, but... I don't really care what the result of fights against people that are just bad are

[hollow canyon]

Don't play Teno if you're average

[lone hamlet]

well that's the thing

[hollow canyon]

Literally an animal for people that have brain and two functional hands

[lone hamlet]

we should

[vale harness]

first thing i agree with what you said

[hollow canyon]

If someone doesn't fulfill those requirements let them play something more simple like Carno or Stego

[vale harness]

now lets use that to make carno take more brain usage than a fucking fly's brain

[hollow canyon]

Carno would have to get reworked for that to happen

[vale harness]

good. fuck em. i mean just rethink all that shit. start from scratch

[hollow canyon]

I mean don't get me wrong, there are better and worse Carno mains, I know that... who was it - Dashark I think? Was really good with Carno here

But the difference between a good Carno and a bad Carno

will always be much smaller than one between a good Teno and bad Teno

[lone hamlet]

I mean I wish I could play teno for more than few hours but as soon as I encounter 3 carnos (which happens very often) I get wiped and feel frustrated.

[hollow canyon]

bad Teno is just fodder

good one is a murder machine that's untouchable

[hollow canyon]

This only happens to me when I specifically look for Carnos

I did attack packs of 5 and 6 if I got bored looking for single Carnos

cause these animals shouldn't be allowed to pack up

[lone hamlet]

true

[hollow canyon]

I mean read my suggestion, that's what my view on Carno is

[lone hamlet]

I read it

[hollow canyon]

I'd maybe slap that mechanic on Stego and Deino too later

but let's test it on Carno first

[hasty coyote]

The issue with fighting a carno atm is that it’s main weakness is supposed to be the turning. But atm it’s not much of a weakness, so it ends up being a stat stick and can face tank most herbies

[hollow canyon]

cause imo Carno breaks the game the most when it packs up

[lone hamlet]

well at least stego and deino won't chase you till the end leaving you with no option but to fight to your doom

[hollow canyon]

A single Carno is imo exactly where it should be, it generally loses vs Tenonto 1v1 but... what does it matter when Carnos get to pack up into a deathball of 5-6 and just roll over everything while being controlled by the single braincell they all share

[hasty coyote]

At least you can escape a croc and stego without a rock

[vale harness]

y'know i take back what i said. if buffing teno again is gonna make the carno mains victim complex's come back. then keep it weak. i cant stand another crying carnoi main

[lone hamlet]

that also

[hollow canyon]

I really don't think that Teno needs many direct buffs, as for the tailslam

the way I used it was either when I could hit more than one person at once

or if Carno started running away and got away from my range of kick

[lone hamlet]

I understand that it may stands for you but as a mid player I would like to enjoy my favorite swamp dweller

[hollow canyon]

it's a niche attack atm tbh

[hasty coyote]

In a 1v1 against tenos, maybe k don’t have enough experience as either to say. But the matchup with pachy is terrible. Pachy’s only way to escape is a rock or a lucky leg break.

[hollow canyon]

Pachy itself is terrible

[lone hamlet]

yes

[hollow canyon]

that animal needs some buffs all around

[lone hamlet]

more stam should be fine imo

[hollow canyon]

I'd start off by reverting that godawful turn rate nerf

[vale harness]

idek why i choose to go onto the isles discord. I know i'll get pissed off when i see a carno typing about nerfing other dinos. but i still do it

[hollow canyon]

yea decreasing the stamina drain on the ram could be good too

also tracking needs to get a rework

[lone hamlet]

truly bad decision

[hollow canyon]

when i was giving a shot at Pachy I've bonebroken the Carno I was fighting against twice

[vale harness]

god damn balance feedback page got me fucked up

[hasty coyote]

Bro that ruined my bread and butter combo to get carno off of me. Then they buffed carno’s turn too so i have no way to get them off without a rock.

[eager ledge]

I don’t understand why they complain when you consider this message they get everything handed to them. “ The isle gives the real world carno to much credit the real tier dinosaur not a mid tier it may have wayed a bunch but the thing that would make the real world carno a low tier is that it was only specialized for killing tiny prey like dryo sized things also the real one could hardly turn while running because it’s stiff tail I never understood why the devs decided to make this thing a apex predator in game”

[hollow canyon]

I got the legbreak on it two times and the thing still just walked after me cause tracking is just so bad

[vale harness]

i want allo

gimme allo

[hollow canyon]

Idk about irl Carno hunting Dryo-sized things, it's like the only animal in its formation iirc

There were hypotheses about it hunting sauropods of all things

[lone hamlet]

just give me beipi so that I can swim in peace

[hasty coyote]

I broke one’s skull and ribs, still tracked me into the forest before my stam got back

[hollow canyon]

yea that's my point ^

Carno specifically should be like the worst tracker in the game

[eager ledge]

There Jaws were built a certain way were they were only viable to hunt tiny prey

[hollow canyon]

if it loses sight of you you should stop existing as far as its concerned

[vale harness]

can we have one balance patch where they don't demolish the balance, then proceed to let us wallow in the shit for 4 months

[hollow canyon]

Where in the world are you getting this idea from? irl Carno had a pretty beefy biteforce(outperforming Allo of the same size) and an astonishing stress resistance

[lone hamlet]

whoo that may be a bit too much to ask for

[hollow canyon]

I can link you a large study on theropods jaws and their abilities to handle stress, it's from last year but basically Carno had a really impressive bite, irl Carno would be really broken in the game same as irl Rex

And no, I don't like Carno

[vale harness]

yeah they got a lot on their plate. they have to do animations for the RP players that like to do really nasty shit

[hollow canyon]

I rather dislike all the pugfaced abelisaurs, they are just ugly in my opinion

[vale harness]

i mean the balance gets changed twice a year but atleast i get to see pachies new courting anims

[lone hamlet]

meanwhile we barely see any ingame

[hollow canyon]

There's been a couple of statements about why that is btw

[lone hamlet]

yeah we know, mostly joking around

[wise sparrow]

But would it really be balanced to have the fastest animal in the game be able to comfortably take down things near its size range? Think about how that would affect everything smaller than it

[hollow canyon]

Gods... no

[vale harness]

i also love attending dondis streams where he starts roasting every player. then proceeds to say he hates the isle

[hollow canyon]

I think Carno should have a low biteforce

in the game

this animal should specifically specialise in killing things smaller than itself - everything larger is a no-go for Carno

and even among the smaller animals it should be getting murder by things like Dibble or Kentro

Every terrestrial animal that is in the game right now though should be on the menu for it with Teno being the toughest one to approach

[eager ledge]

It took a bit to find it again sry for the wait it didn’t have very much biteforce it was specialized for killing small prey similar to dryo size creatures https://youtube.com/watch?v=slcVvR7UMik&feature=share near the beginning of the video it talks about its bite

[thin mantle]

Based Aken

[hollow canyon]

I know this video but it's.... old

like really old at this point

[wise sparrow]

Carno irl may have killed larger prey. But if we had irl carno in game it would instantly invalidate pretty much everything smaller than it. Especially with how the devs seem to get their balance ideas form Jurassic park

[thin mantle]

Kinda like a paleo accurate rex

[vale harness]

i say we turn carno into an experiment. just buff its bite force to 800, speed to 65km/h, hp to 6tons, and see how long it takes for people to all agree to stop playing it

[eager ledge]

Eather way most of the facts about its bite and jaws have not changed

[hollow canyon]

They have though, let me link you this:

https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24602

[wise sparrow]

[hollow canyon]

Carno's bite is stronger than that of an Allosaurus of the same size

it packs around 1t of pressure, that's a lot

[lone hamlet]

I think they should focus on balancing the current roster and as time goes by, adding new creatures will slowly but surely add balance to the game by having specific matchups

[hollow canyon]

its mandible is capable of handling a lot of stress, yea it's outdone by tyrannosaurids but aside from them it's really impressive

Also - Carno irl wasn't as fast as it's in the game

Albertosaurus is estimated as being not much slower than Carno according to Larramendi and Molina-Perez

42km/h vs 45km/h iirc

[vale harness]

i say we just make the game hyper realistic. all the herbivores eat grass shit and drink all day, and take 10 years to grow. then make it so carno can't turn while running. and make utah a furry

[lone hamlet]

[eager ledge]

You gave me the wrong document dude this one has no mention of carnotor give me one that actually talks about carnotor

[lone hamlet]

the utah being covered in feather is a good idea tho

I'm tired of these naked dinos

[vale harness]

no no no. not feathered. just put a furry suit on it

[hollow canyon]

It does mention Carno, it's just that you'd have to read the whole thing, but give me a sec

[vale harness]

then give it cartoonish animations

[lone hamlet]

please no

[vale harness]

[hollow canyon]

Carno on the top, Rex on the bottom, this is the computer model for their mandibles determining how they could handle stress

Now here you have some more theropods:

blue - good, red - bad

[vale harness]

nobody panic..... but pesky commented on one of my videos.... i'm gonna start screaming like a teen girl

[hollow canyon]

If you scroll down to the table you have biteforces of multiple theropods ranging Dilo to T.rex

[lone hamlet]

good job man, becoming an influence I see

[hollow canyon]

With Dilo having the lowest biteforce and T.rex of course having the highest

[eager ledge]

Is it at the very bottom because I’m not going to read a document that has know mention of carno until the the 10th Page that would be a waist of time for to sift through 10 Page and then there finally being only one mention of carno

[vale harness]

nah we got drama now. we're gonna have a boxing match where we charge people 20 dollars for pay per view. then rig it to end in a tie. what all youtubers do

[lone hamlet]

sounds epic

[eager ledge]

Plus I have dislexia

[hollow canyon]

nah you'd have to scroll down and at least look at the pictures, but at least take at the pictures I posted above

We should move it to DMs btw, this is more so paleotalk than Isle balance feedback

and tbh the fact that Carno bit hard irl doesn't mean it should be biting hard in the game

I personally think it has 0 business going after any animal larger than itself

[eager ledge]

Ok

[hollow canyon]

Even something like Maia should squash a Carno

In general Carno shouldn't have even been added to the game this early

Well, let's make a game with a roster of small animals and let's make it so that the largest animal we release is a specialised small game hunter theropod which is also the fastest carnivore in the game

If we had Allo, Sucho, Dibble, Para and some other larger animals in the game Carno wouldn't be a problem at all because you wouldn't be running into packs of 5 of them every 2 steps

[shrewd crescent]

#balance-feedback message
I would even take a very slow stamina regen for this. That seems fair enough.

[hollow canyon]

It's not in because the devs claim that it would make Ptera invulnerable to everything

if you could just latch onto a tree or a rock where you can't be attacked by anything every time you run out of stamina you'd never be threatened by anything

[thin mantle]

based as fuck btw

[lone hamlet]

I get that

but do you feel that ptera is overpowered atm?

because everybody just perch on top of trees, unreachable

so adding latching ability to regen stam will not change anything

[hollow canyon]

Let me put it this way - it's a food item for Utah, an important one at that, it needs to be vulnerable at some points to give Utahs a chance to snatch it

[lone hamlet]

we will just latch onto rocks instead on going up on trees

[hollow canyon]

Cause Utah diet is also just... ridiculous

I've made feedback about that at some point too

you have 2 nutrients that are decently available

you get one from what was it? Teno/Pachy/Boar

[lone hamlet]

we could argue that this is bad design tho

[hollow canyon]

that one's easy to get

then you have another one where it's Carno Stego and Rabbit - quite a bit harder but it can still be done

...and then the last one is Ptera+Dryo+Hypsi

two animals that NOBODY even plays

and Ptera - which can be killed sometimes at best and it's basically a rarity

[lone hamlet]

but read this, this will not change anything because as utah you don't actively hunt ptera, you just have to wait until they fail to peck you to eat them

[hollow canyon]

Yea that's the thing you kind of are expected to hunt them... I mean idk how realistic it is to kill a Pteranodon by ambushing it as a Utah

I will admit - I've never done that

[lone hamlet]

yeah it's bad design

[hollow canyon]

but it's ermm... a possibility at least theoretically?

Like don't get me wrong, they should just idk put Teno or boar on that nutrient for Utah

[lone hamlet]

so give utah his last diet other than ptera and give ptera the regen stam on latching and we good

[hollow canyon]

and the problem would be solved

[covert cave]

I think stego on that nutrient would be good

[hollow canyon]

could work, yea, I personally don't care for Ptera

[covert cave]

Would give utahs incentive to engage stegos more

[hollow canyon]

well the reason why I don't want to move Stego is that

[lone hamlet]

nobody does anyway

[hollow canyon]

it has Stego/Carno/rabbit

and rabbit gives very little food while Carno and Stego are very tough match ups for Utah

I'd make it a bit easier on Utahs to get at least a good diet

although admittedly - Teno seems to be really tough for Utahs too

at least when I was playing Teno I felt like I could handle Utahs surprisingly well

[lone hamlet]

utah has a really messed up diet lol

[hollow canyon]

Yea it does

it's like... what in the world were the devs thinking and how did they allow this to leave the QA branch?

This diet makes no sense

[lone hamlet]

I guess they expect us to handle these abnormalities until we get a larger roster

[hollow canyon]

I guess?

The question is when exactly are we going to get a larger roster

There are two animals that I actually like to play in the current game: Carno and Teno

and yes I did say that I play Deino more than Carno but that's only because I hate Deino so much that I play Deino to kill them on sight

cause no other animal kills Deino as well as Deino does

[lone hamlet]

good question

[hollow canyon]

I'd really like to be able to play something like Cerato, Dilo or Dibble

perhaps even Kentro

[lone hamlet]

beipi ?

[hollow canyon]

I don't care for Beipi, it's too tiny

[lone hamlet]

that's the neat part

[hollow canyon]

I don't play Dryo-sized stuff and smaller

That's why I don't care for Ptera, Dryo, Hypsi - they are just meme animals

[lone hamlet]

they are literal duck

[lone hamlet]

these are my fav

[hollow canyon]

I will play beipi when it comes out

but I don't think I will be playing it for long

For me my favourites are animals like Teno, Carno, Cera, Dibble, Dilo

the sort of... not small but not quite titanic animals

[lone hamlet]

let me look for dibble, never heard of

[hollow canyon]

I don't touch stego with a 10ft pole

[lone hamlet]

ah yes nvm I see

[hollow canyon]

It's my favourite herbivore in legacy

[lone hamlet]

I like safe and small creatures

[hollow canyon]

Hopefully in Evrima it will be small but with a short temper

I mean... Dryo is probably the most survivable and safest animal in the game

I haven't played it since update 3.75 though

on 3.5 it was broken and absurdly strong

it had a "peckforce" of 75N, higher than Utah now

I'd literally maul small Carnos and Utahs with it

[lone hamlet]

[hollow canyon]

I have an acquaintance who'd play with his friends in a large Dryo mob

and damn they could even bring down a Stego

admittedly Stego back then was much weaker than now

you could solo one with Carno

I've seen Scope kill them as a Teno

[lone hamlet]

interesting

[hollow canyon]

I've killed a couple as Deino

[lone hamlet]

now that's a miracle

[hollow canyon]

Nah, not at all, they just kept on headshotting it with the tailslam

tailslam was much stronger than now and Stego had a much smaller hp pool

Carno's biteforce was also higher

Stego could only swing 10 times

I basically baited 10 swings and then facetanked Stegos

Stego was just sad, I'm glad it got buffed, although... I mean

it's a bit too strong now perhaps

[lone hamlet]

it's good as long as they can't chase you to thagomize you

[hollow canyon]

Tbh I think I'd prefer if they could do that but at the same time if it was more possible to fight them

I generally like it when animals are more of a threat but also more vulnerable to one another

Then again it IS possible to kill Stegos if you have a Utah pack

the problem is if there's more than one Stego

which is why I'd personally potentially hit them with that Carno-anti-megapack mechanic that I proposed

but let's start with Carno and see how it goes

if it prevents Carnos from overpacking then it can be implemented to other animals

that's how I see it

[lone hamlet]

Unpopular opinion : stego are fine but at this point they should just get a bit nerfed so that stego players don't die of boredom anymore

and have a bit more fear when they encounter carnis

[hollow canyon]

To be perfectly honest - I think Stego should have 0 fear when it encounters Carnos

[lone hamlet]

yes

[hollow canyon]

they have 0 business messing with an animal of that size

[lone hamlet]

this shouldn't be their nemesis

[hollow canyon]

Not just nemesis, you should feel quite comfy even if there's multiple Carnos around you as Stego, those are small game hunters and shouldn't have any business messing with an animal that large(and they shouldn't be packing up either tbh)

[lone hamlet]

as it is for now then

[hollow canyon]

Utahs should be a threat to Stegos but

tbh they kind of would be if pounce wasn't so buggy

[alpine plover]

Does anyone suggested to be able to control a pack of stego, as long as they are juvenil? And once adult, you have to keep only one, others becomes AI. And nerf the stego when they are young. Earlier I killed a almost adult Utah, while beeing at 15% stego... I don't even know how I killed it as I was still figuring out the mechanics for stego

[hollow canyon]

and if Stegos weren't herding up

[hollow canyon]

bad Utah

but in general I did propose how to deal with all those solo animals that keep packing up

[lone hamlet]

that sounds like a strange mechanic...

[hollow canyon]

The thing about juvies is that they'd count differently towards group limits

based on what the devs have said

so that would be fine - the juvie Stegos could stay with their group

but the moment they hit subadult someone would have to leave the group

otherwise their hunger drain would keep on increasing

[lone hamlet]

devs should just add a debuff whenever multiple creatures from the same species are near one an other

only to specific ones tho

[hollow canyon]

Yea that's more or less what I proposed

[lone hamlet]

like stego or carno

[alpine plover]

both in this case. Also, the scent system is not strong enough, as you can hide at a ridiculous level from predators, just by staying still in plants. Even if they pass at 1m from you. Scent should accumulate, more you remain still, more they smell you.

[hollow canyon]

It's more so that they'd get an increased hunger drain if they were to go over the pack limits

[lone hamlet]

but then nerf tracking

[hollow canyon]

Tracking needs a nerf either way

[lone hamlet]

yes

[lone hamlet]

good idea

[hollow canyon]

As for this - I've proposed that we could have it so that the defecation mechanic that the devs want to introduce into the game would work by piling up literal excrements around you

if you stay in one area you just start drowning in your own stools

and that lets everyone know that you're there the moment they start sniffing

[lone hamlet]

sounds interesting but maybe without poop literally the same concept but with invisible odour

[hollow canyon]

I will just point out that the devs WILL introduce defecation either way - I'd say at least justify it by giving it some actual purpose in the game

[lone hamlet]

oh god, this better be handled well

poovrima

[hollow canyon]

...rather than having people literally cause diarrhoea to their Pteranodon to then bomb the terrestrial dinosaurs below them

[lone hamlet]

ahahah

[covert cave]

W- why? What is that being added

[lone hamlet]

realism I guess

I think it's fine, as long as it is not complete nonsense

[covert cave]

Sure

As long as they don’t just have it in there to exist

That could lead to some… disturbing rp

[lone hamlet]

ye

[hollow canyon]

Don't ask me, I'm not particularly in favour of it either, if you want you can ask Punchpacket in Isle-discussion when he's available there

Large part of the community has been very vocal about not wanting it to get added but I think the devs don't particularly care for that

even though they used to be staunchly opposed to adding this stuff as well back in the day I believe

[covert cave]

Yeah I remember that

That’s why I’m so surprised about the 180

[dusky surge]

late because i was muted but are you seriously one of those people who think that "because the animators are working on animations, balance isn't being worked on" because that's fucking ridiculous for so many reasons

you do know that the animators aren't directly responsible for game balance, right?

or really involved in it at all

its such a lame argument people use where they say "stop working on animations/map stuff/art/sounds and work on balance/bug fixes" as if those aren't two entirely different departments working on seperate things at the same time

[hollow canyon]

To be fair I don't think that was Wyatt's point, he was more so saying that we very rarely get any balance changes(well that's mainly due to rare updates I think, most patches/updates do contain balance changes they are just rare in general) and meanwhile we have to look at stuff like Pachy's courting animations which in his view presumably(and in mine too) are largely... irrelevant to how the game plays?

That's just my interpretation of what he might've meant though, I might be wrong here.

[hollow canyon]

Also I take it you weren't the QA who stated that Carno has the highest bite speed in the game?

[dusky surge]

wasnt me lmao

[hollow canyon]

Cause I mean... that's just dead wrong

[dusky surge]

i do remember seeing a patch note literally nerfing carnos bitespeed tho which makes this even funnier

[hollow canyon]

Yea I tested it, most attacks in the game have the same attack rate of 1 per second

that's including Carno's bite, Utah's bite, Teno's bite, Teno's kick and Teno's tailslam

I haven't checked Teno's claw swipe

the only animals with attack rates different than 1/second were Deino and Stego so far

with Deino having the worst attack rate in the game

And to be fair I knew that about Teno's attacks cause I had to check them in the very beginning of this patch to see which one has the highest dps output, I just didn't know how they compare against Carno

[dusky surge]

i do feel that while carno is strong, there's a very negative approach to how this animal is done, that being "revert everything"

herbis, carnis, everything, revert it

like, i wont lie, if carno wasn't godly OP, from a sheer basic gameplay standpoint, this is some of the most fun I've had playing the animal stat-wise

having that brought back to U4 carno, which was kind of just a boring drag to play carno in any sense, would be a waste

[hollow canyon]

I think that Carno and Tenonto are the closest to where they should be in the history of this game

they need some minor tweaks at best

[dusky surge]

carno statistically, isn't even OP imho. It's more too good at doing shit it shouldn't be doing

[hollow canyon]

Yea, packing up

its stats are where they should be, it's just that when you have half a dozen of those sausages with jaws running around that they break the game

[dusky surge]

I think, statistically, this animal is literally one of the best it has ever been, it's GENUINELY fun to get ambushes and surprise solo players

[hollow canyon]

^

the issue is that it's easy to grow

and then very easy to maintain in a large group

[dusky surge]

tenonto also finally got brought back to its position as the combat-brawler animal rather than "mr slam spam"

[hollow canyon]

matter of fact it gets better the more Carnos you have

because if any of them die you just get to munch on them and keep at least good diet

[dusky surge]

all it needs is the tail to be a more easily utilised in a fight, be it via stam reduction or what have you

[hollow canyon]

Yea, pretty much

[dusky surge]

honestly, i had a concept for the diet thing to make juvis actually work for shit, but bring both factions more in-line with each other

[hollow canyon]

I honestly have no idea, I hate diets so I will just sit back and watch what the devs do with them

I'd personally make them easier on herbivores rather than harder on carnivores if you ask me but

[dusky surge]

While hatchling:
Has a preferred diet, but all items on diet give 3 nutrients evenly, as the animal cannot be expected to find food for itself, but parents must at least bring food relevant to the animal (no utahs sustaining their children on sea turtles, for example)

While juvi:
Has a preferred diet and must find each food type for each nutrient
Poor diet = -20% growth boost
Good diet = 20% growth boost
Great diet = 80% growth boost
Perfect diet = 120% growth boost
All other stats remain as they were dependent on diets (poor diet will still heavily impact stamina and other stats, and will be notably more impactful upon reaching 50%)

While sub-adult/adult:
Diets and growth boost remain as they are in the current iteration.

This would apply to both factions btw

just makes juvi growing less dogshit for both sides, making carnis do a bit more while making herbis have time to maybe chill out and not sprint across the entire fucking universe

[spare oak]

What’s going on in here 👀

[hollow canyon]

That sounds... decent I guess?

[dusky surge]

i mean, better than what we hve

its not a perfect fix, i will admit

[hollow canyon]

The issue with carnivores is that they're extremely dependent on whether that particular food item is present on the map at a given time or not

and that just seems to be so random at times

[dusky surge]

I find there's often like a rabbit or something to eat (also dead boars litter the world, and corpses aren't generally hard to scavenge)

[keen plover]

Utahs 3rd diet

[hollow canyon]

^ that's not even random, that stuff just doesn't exist

[keen plover]

I'm wondering why that hasn't changed yet

[dusky surge]

3rd diet is weird

[keen plover]

Isn't teno and pachy on the same diet for utah?

[hollow canyon]

Yea, they are

[keen plover]

Why not have pachy on the third at least

[deft blaze]

Because that would be somewhat normal

[keen plover]

And swap ptera with it

[dusky surge]

its weird, they seem to have designated each "type" of animal to a diet slot
brawling bastards = three dots
behemoths you have very little chance of killing alone (and rabbit) = S
small, flighty buggers you kinda have to ambush = lines

[hollow canyon]

yea, that's what I was going to say

although I'm going to point out that before we had deino there instead of ptera

I honestly have no idea which one is more nonsensical

[dusky surge]

which is cool in CONCEPT, but dryo and hypsi literally are not functionally complete enough to warrant being "huntable"

[hollow canyon]

it's a tough choice - Deino, literally the last animal that Utah should try hunting

and Pteranodon the flying little rat that gives hardly anything

[keen plover]

Yeah I personally loved deino hunting though. Like jumping into water (risky) and fishing juvie deinos

[hollow canyon]

I know but I'm still just going to point out that a juvie Deino has to be mentally challenged to die to any terrestrial predator while in water

Then again - most Deino players are so bad that I'm not even surprised they die like that

[dusky surge]

i think U5 might raise hypsi population because of the unique nature of its colours, nesting and so on, but its non-existent atm

[hollow canyon]

I... doubt it

I mean maybe for a moment

[dusky surge]

i'd actually play hypsi if it was legitimately arboreal and had fun shit to do

[mental roost]

Hypsi population increases for a week and then drops off again afterwards.

[hollow canyon]

3 weeks after the update you will see Hypsi once in 5 hours of gameplay

...and I'm being generous here

[keen plover]

The only times I find hypsi's is when someone dies and comes back to spit on you on their body

[dusky surge]

personally, i see a lot more appeal in an actually FINISHED hypsi

[hollow canyon]

I hear them sometimes but very rarely

[dusky surge]

I like hypsi but the lack of any substance as it stands makes me give up on it fast

[hollow canyon]

Also, out of pure curiosity - what got you muted if I may ask?

If you don't want to share feel free to ignore the question

[dusky surge]

stupid shit lmao

and i mean that in a very legitimate way, it was a discussion involving ptero sounds that went south

thats all i'll say

[hollow canyon]

ok lol I see

I personally don't care for Pterodactyl, the only thing I would say about it(actually someone else said it and I just realised I kind of agree with that) - I think we would've been better off with a different animal in its place

someone suggested Rhamphorhynchus

which i think looks more interesting and has a more original name

[half girder]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350260027129865/961812032594776145 wym pachys are devastating creatures, they dont just eat grass and die, the game must be realistic therefore no fun

[thin mantle]

Damn I wish I was there for the violent ptero sound argument…. Sounds entertaining as hell

[dusky surge]

it wasnt violent, it was just stupid lmao

[thin mantle]

On this discord those have the same connotation to me, still wish I was their to witness it

[carmine patrol]

tbh it was way better when eino was on utah's diet because:
1-It's a very popular playable and many people play it so they're easy to find and hunt
2-You can easily kill the juvis by pinning them down and killing them, they also give a lot of food
3-even if you couldn't find juvis you can always eat from dead deinos killed by stegos

ptera on the other hand is terrible becuase it barely gives food, they are harder to catch, and they are less popular than deino so they're harder to find

[dusky surge]

i'd argue deino is harder than ptera

[carmine patrol]

deinos are much easier to catch, I'd always go to the SE river and catch any juvis basking over there

[dusky surge]

only incompetent juvi deinos were "easier to catch"

i thank the gods ptera is on instead of deino now

because pteras are SO MUCH EASIER to find and kill/scavenge

[carmine patrol]

they barely give food tho

[dusky surge]

i dont have that problem personally, they give fine food to a utah

[hexed sorrel]

you didnt get me, im saying utah shouldn't be able to kill teno with DAMAGE with bites, ive seen so many videos of 15 min long fights of the teno just constantly bleeding and then it dies of damage instead of bleed

[keen plover]

I mean, only incompetent pteras are caught as well

[dusky surge]

ehh, not really? unlike deinos, pteras have to go onto land eventually

[keen plover]

I'd argue farming both of them is hard though

As a ptera, you shouldn't be landing in places utahs can catch you.

[dusky surge]

also an ambush on a ptera is instant death, which is great

[dusky surge]

there's no water in places utahs cant catch you

[keen plover]

At worst, just land in a forest to regen stam if utahs are nearby . Also south spawn farming was easy since it was shallow waters that a decent amount of deinos spawned at. Yeah pretty much spawn camping though

They couldn't really sink to avoid you

Although from a gameplay POV, I guess camping spawns ain't a good thing

Either way, both choices are bad imo. Need a proper, consistent enough 3rd option

[royal topaz]

i only drink from places where deinos can get me though

[dusky surge]

???

[royal topaz]

rocks next to cliffs adjacent to rivers

can't be accessed by utahs or anything unless they want to swim across the river lol

[waxen sail]

I see a lot of comments about stegos but having a hard time wrapping my head around it , stegos are the strongest herbi rn, and while people talk about nerfs or buffs on the other dinos it feels a bit backward // While sure the stego is a strong dino right now, for balance purposes we need some dinos to be stronger than others and counterplays

• Stegos being herbis mean you most likely won't be attacked by one unless you run at it, it's super slow, very hard to grow and diet almost not possible unless the server is dead or you're escorted by the whole herbi population

Sure it is strong now, but when I think about it, let's say we do nerf stegos, what do we do when apexes are out ? When there's rexes and gigas and more annoying carni dinos around, and the only tanky and strong herbi is nerfed to the ground ?

Feels like nerfing stegos is 1 step forward 2 step back, the best solution to stegos is new dinos, I doubt it's a nerf or anything that's gonna fix it

it's as if the rexes were out, and people were mad that they're strong, when they're meant to be, feels to me like stegos are meant to be strong

But if you think I got anything wrong let me know, I only really played deino stego tenon so maybe y'all have a better point of view for me, because from where I stand there's no issues

tbh I don't do that much pvp most of my gameplay is passive walking around so wondering what it's like for someone else with stegos 🤷‍♂️

[hollow canyon]

I generally agree with everything you said and before someone calls me a Stego main again - the last time I played this animal was in December... 2020.

Stego is a big animal that should be hard to take down, my only problem with it is that I think they shouldn't be grouping

[waxen sail]

why not

I've personally seen more megapack of carnos than stegos

🤔 what kind of group we talking

[hollow canyon]

I see this kind of stuff quite often

[waxen sail]

hot damn lmao

[hollow canyon]

Stegos are the most common animals along with Carno and Deino in my experience

[waxen sail]

that's quite the group tbh