balance-feedback-discussion

[sinful cove]

this guy wants carno to have speed, agility, power and endurance all in one package LOL

either he's a carno main or a masochist

[dusky surge]

also i like how in this guy's opinion, carno = marathon runner
utah = not marathon runner

[mental roost]

Is both not possible?

Carnos have had a history of trying to fight Stegos and Deinos despite being shit at it(Deino before alt bite nerf)

[sinful cove]

sounds so balanced

let's make carno faster than utah, have more stamina and be agile, and also kill utah in only a few hits

[dusky surge]

the fucking BLEEDING ENDURANCE HUNTER? Nah, less of an endurance predator than the fastest animal in the game with an amazing knack for pulling off ambushes on small animals and quickly dispatching them

[fresh laurel]

You must not remember the other dude who said carno is the long endurance hunter and utah was the ambusher huh....

[sinful cove]

utah plays a lot like an AWD, bleeding out and wearing down prey, pestering them and avoiding hits. it isnt a "low stam bleeder"

[fresh laurel]

just make utah do extra bonus damage to carno if thats the case

[dusky surge]

I honestly think they need to fully go in on the carno ambush thing. The most fun I've had playing carno is the ambushes, and my most memorable moments to do with carno are having it come out of nowhere and obliterate my friend as he screams and slams his keyboard

[sinful cove]

reduce carno blood pool to 50

[fresh laurel]

how does a low stam bleeder work anyways? I mean even giga had some decent stam in legacy

[mental roost]

I honestly agree.. I managed to ambush charge a poor Pachy on some server near some bushes and the poor thing was dispatched in seconds. Pretty fun, as it felt like an assassination. (back in update 4)

[fresh laurel]

Like how would you even last long enough in a battle to see your prey start having low blood side effects

[sinful cove]

a low stam bleeder could probably work but it would need to be a lot more vicious in the bleed department

utah isnt it

maybe something like theri

[fresh laurel]

I dont know about theri but as long as it cant tail ride apexes and run down some mid tiers again, im fine

[dusky surge]

i'll use my allo concept as an example

Low stam, fast sprint, fast trot. In the situation you and your pack are trying to take, say, a stego, you'd trot behind or around it, using sprint to dive in, attack, run back out and regen stamina from a safe distance. This would also make it valid as a method of ambushing smaller animals using your impressive sprint speed

[sinful cove]

theri probably wont be impressive in the speed department so vicious damage or bleed output would be useful for it. none of that theri running down allos and riding rexes
shit like in legacy lol

[fresh laurel]

Sounds neat ngl... but on Utah I dont really see it

[sinful cove]

not on our current 'utah' especially. on 10 years in the future "accurate" utah they want to add maybe, but ours cant take hits, it needs the stamina to avoid hits

[mental roost]

https://c.tenor.com/hneNjJZTTQ8AAAAd/alex-jones-triggered.gif

^Theri trying to chase some carnivore vs bad stamina(??)

[sinful cove]

ngl alex jones aggression is the embodiment of theri player behaviour lmao

[mental roost]

"COME OVER HERE, COWARD!!"~-Giant ugly bird trying to challenge an adult Tyrannosaurus to a fight

[sinful cove]

sees allo across a lake "I'LL BEAT YOUR ASS YOU SON OF A BITCH CMERE"

[mental roost]

Allo just trotting away(if it's given a good trot) as winded Theri persists to chase it like some crackhead that's hyperventilating/panting

[fresh laurel]

Pov. Legacy Trike users trying to intimidate you from 500000012982812 miles away

[sinful cove]

trike players talking shit while playing the worst apex

[mental roost]

Facetanking a Triceratops, even as a T.Rex should honestly just be fucking death or severe injury.

[sinful cove]

funny since rex facetanked trike in legacy

it's fodder to both giga and rex in legacy lol

[mental roost]

Legacy Trike is big sad.

[fresh laurel]

legit mocked bite you from miles away tho

[sinful cove]

trike and para got done dirty

[mental roost]

So is what they did to my boy Anky..

[fresh laurel]

they did cama pretty dirty in legacy ngl

[sinful cove]

wasting their stam to stomp at you from 50 feet away just as a taunt

[mental roost]

Absolute power move.

[sinful cove]

i actually enjoyed playing carno in legacy

carno and cera were my usual carnis even though cera was awful

[mental roost]

Carno felt speedy in legacy if memory serves right, and I remember quite liking its sprint animation(really emphasized its speed demon nature)

[sinful cove]

it had a good juvi stage too

[mental roost]

It's very easy to make carno have a good juvi and sub adult stage.. because you literally just give it good speed due to its long legs and it works out fine. It practically writes itself.

[sinful cove]

yeah its easy as hell to make animals like carno, rex, and probably galli have good stages. dryo too, though galli juci stage was lame in legacy as well

[fresh laurel]

but how do we fix sub giga? doe

[mental roost]

The hardest ones are the chunky little ones like Stego, Triceratops, Anky, etc..but that's also what adds to difficulty I guess...but not particularly fun to grow.

[sinful cove]

i could see some sauropods as well being fast juveniles, starting off as lanky and then building up bulk about a third or halfway in to their sub stage

[mental roost]

I guess do what might've been the case in Allosauroids too?? Longer legs proportionately for more speed... I swear there was a fossil or two of juvenile Allosaurus where it had longer legs in proportion to its body size than an adult does.

[sinful cove]

with bad slow juvis it would be best to shorten the juvi stage and put that length in to the sub or adult stage

[mental roost]

Issue with Legacy Giga's stages was that they all hade the exact same fucking proportions and no attempt to make them faster whatsoever.

[mental roost]

^This

[dusky surge]

My favourite thing about legacy trike juvi was the fact that me and a mate somehow managed to destroy an adult dilo duo as two newspawn juvi trikes lmao

[fresh laurel]

Didnt help how sub giga if you werent sticky utah levels of good was apex free food

[mental roost]

Chonky babies kill some random adult Dilos

[fresh laurel]

couldnt really out run poop, all you could do is hope to hide or out turn them

[mental roost]

I still wish they gave Juvi Pachy and Deino lankier proportions..
I'd honestly lower stego and deino's weights when fresh spawns too so that the window of opportunity is longer(same for carno too honestly....but maybe nesting will introduce even smaller children because I just find it silly if a 56 kg baby were to come out of a 15 kg egg)

[dusky surge]

you realise hatchlings are going to be smaller than freshspawn juvis

[mental roost]

-I'm used to the juvi stage being considered at around 25% growth, F. Hatchlings usually what I used to hear referred to the 1rst stage spawned in for evrima.
:Hatchling Ptera and Hypsi are going to be specks of grass.

[dusky surge]

yes, they will probably be miniscule

[mental roost]

Nesting in as those two I feel would be purely just to experience what it's like to be an ant.

And it sounds entertaining.

[fresh laurel]

make hatchling hypsi and ptera live in the microscopic world

[mental roost]

Can finally add Beezlebufo

[dusky surge]

i hope hatchling ptera can't fly lmao

[sinful cove]

i wanna see hatchling pteras just flap their wings and ragdoll if they hold space and it still drains stam lmao

[mental roost]

Let them fly so they can join their parents in spamming 1 call while out of reach of predators for hours.

[dusky surge]

no

the parents should actually feed the little fucks before they leave the nest

[fresh laurel]

Make it so ptera learns to fly if the parents throw them off a cliff

[mental roost]

Too much responsibility. I need to go buy milk at the radio tower afterall.

What could go wrong with leaving a newborn hatchling alone at the nest?

[fresh laurel]

Utah has entered the chat

[mental roost]

Well, I got my milk at least.

[fresh laurel]

Go milk a boar next time man

[sinful cove]

maia milk

[mental roost]

Just imagine, being nested in as a baby Ptera, and BOTH parents ditch and fuck off on the other side of the map.

[fresh laurel]

I had this happen to me once...

[sinful cove]

imagine? that was common in legacy lol

[mental roost]

Don't have to pay the bills for a child you don't claim is yours.

[fresh laurel]

Legit said wanna do vc and when I said nah they kicked me out and said gl

[sinful cove]

i remember once i took a maia egg, she waited for all egg slots to be taken, then she destroyed the nest and HAULED out of nowhere

[mental roost]

She went to go get cigs. Very important.

[sinful cove]

she went to get that maia milk

it was raining too and almost all of us got picked off by utahs i was one of the only survivors lol

[mental roost]

Reminds me of Alpha's egg or whatever it was called.

[fresh laurel]

I remember playing on legacy offical and a maia managed to make my utah pack stuck inside the little port area...

like the common nesting spot for utahs there

[sinful cove]

ive done this to utahs

hold them hostage in their little nesting pen

i think i was a sucho though

[fresh laurel]

lmao dont blame ppl who do that ngl

[sinful cove]

its just too easy to not do that

[mental roost]

Rats

[sinful cove]

also sometimes you could bite them through the netting at the front if they were getting cocky

[mental roost]

Ratutah

[dusky surge]

dude i would fucking lose my shit if some animal got abandoned on a nest so some random adult of a completely different species just went "well, might as well" and raised it. Just a giant fucking carno towering over an itty bitty ptera giving it scraps of meat so it doesn't fucking die

[sinful cove]

disney story

[mental roost]

Domestication. Raise them up so they can become fat and tastier later. Long process but might be worth it.

[dusky surge]

i will absolutely raise an animal if it is extremely difficult for me to do so

oh, you need fish? i'm a carno so...

[mental roost]

Humans spread small pox to dinosaurs if they stay too long in close proximity so dinosaurs can't be raised by human players.

[dusky surge]

i want it to be an inconvenience to have this thing around

[mental roost]

It's proven quite effective in the past..

cough

[dusky surge]

i wanna try and raise a semi-aquatic with a primarily terrestrial animal for example

[fresh laurel]

would be cool to raise a rex as a utah to later have a godly hunting partner...

[dusky surge]

ew, hunting partner?

nah once he's adult im ditching him

[mental roost]

More like new boss

[dusky surge]

no more emotional connection, no longer care

[mental roost]

https://c.tenor.com/4SXLfFR10kIAAAAC/under-new-management-more-like-under-new-management.gif

[dusky surge]

my entire goal is to raise babies for absolutely no gain but it'd be funny

[sinful cove]

me stealing fertilized eggs as ovi just to raise future bodyguards for my dino mafia

[dusky surge]

"i suppose you are wondering why i have brought you all here"

"fight for my amusement, little bastards"

[sinful cove]

start a dinosaur gladiator ring at the docks with all our kidnapped juvis

[dusky surge]

i like this idea

place bets

[hollow canyon]

Trust me sub Giga was apex free food no matter what skill Giga was, it was all about the apex that it was up against

[dusky surge]

3 mangoes on the stego

[hollow canyon]

The moment Sticky released those videos about subgiga the deathmatch servers were flooded with people trying that stuff and they couldn't understand why they were failing

the simple explanation is that the apex - be it giga or rex - has to fall asleep to let you run around it and start tailriding it

[fresh laurel]

Legit when I saw a utah as a sub giga I just said gg

[sinful cove]

or just find a REALLY bad rex to tailride, ive tailridden some rexes as a fuckin alberto there are some real shitty players out there lol

[hollow canyon]

As for that discussion regarding juvie Giga speed and what not - I don't think there's ever been any study on juvenile carcharodontosaurids ability to run and how good they'd be at it but based on a skeletal of a juvenile mapusaurus that I've seen - that thing'd probably be pretty fast, it had proportionally very long legs

[sinful cove]

sticky utah was nothing to gawk at though, he was just a lame assrider most of the time, or pulling the same old "jump over them" trick as utah that i used to see other people do almost every time i played in legacy

regardless of realism at least, it should either be faster, or have a shortened juvi stage

what ever they can manage with its model

[hollow canyon]

Sticky was ok, I don't think that tailriding was interesting about his videos, it was more so the analytical approach to each match up, e.g. that stuff about fighting a sub rex or a dibble as an Allo

[dusky surge]

im more impressed by this new "slippy utah" guy lmao, i think his name is naccn or something

dude actually does Isle combat really damn well

[sinful cove]

strong assumption that theyre making a new giga juv and sub model becaus eof the boring new adult model, they can probably make it leggier to make it less of a fodder animal when its young

[fresh laurel]

I remember my first time ever playing The Isle and I went the good ol classic Rex expecting to be god cus yes but then I came out dead to a Utah lmao

[sinful cove]

my first animal was galli and i died to a giga as juvi, so i went utah and died to a giga as a juvi

[dusky surge]

never did like sticky utah, idk, i just found his content boring, but i find most legacy content boring. sticky was a standout to me though because i found the way he calculated everything at all times really fucking boring and taking the fun out of the game

[hollow canyon]

no idea, I meant irl, I am clueless about what they are going to look like in the game but tbh I think that making them more beefy but slower could potentially work? It's going to always be harder to be slower as a juvenile but idk, Rex is most likely going to be fast as a juvie and I'd like Giga to have a different growth curve and play differently across its stages

And I say this despite the fact that I vastly prefer Giga over Rex in general

[sinful cove]

slow giga juvi can probably work as long as it has good af stam at that age so it can avoid predation similar to how giga does from rex in legacy

[hollow canyon]

unless Evrima messes it up

I mean it already made the looks of it worse than they used to be so I guess I will have to hope that at least the animal feels fun to play but I have my reservations considering how bleed works

[fresh laurel]

My problem is will the devs avoid sub giga from becoming a over grown juvie?

[mental roost]

I was at one point, fond of making Giga's growth curve be the opposite of Rex's and be a bulkier animal for most of its life...but in the general aspect of actual fun... yeah it'd be awful.. unless it's for the sub adult stage, but then it'd still need a way to not fucking die to adult apex carnivores the moment it is spotted.

[fresh laurel]

They could someone make it just act like an allo for its sub stage and juvie the devs can choose how they want it to play

[mental roost]

I guess.... Kinda a odd situation..

[fresh laurel]

But legacy as we can see power over speed is not always good lmao

[fresh laurel]

sub giga meets allo...

I mean it could have its own draw backs compared to a normal allo

[mental roost]

I'd probably make it so that Giga's get chunkier earlier(late juvenile and early sub adult stage).. While Rex's have to wait a little bit later to really add the bulk.

[fresh laurel]

I think at like 65% is when Rex starts growing its bulk tbh

[mental roost]

I can see that

In general, Giga growth is in a weird place... I just hope that it's not a fucking slug.

[fresh laurel]

Thing is

How can they make a growth that makes sense for the apex bleeder that is giga...

I really only thought make sub like allo somewhat due to them being similar

[mental roost]

I guess it can kinda work out... I mean Sub Rex and Alberto will probably inevitably get into quarrels while being similar niches too

[fresh laurel]

Irl it would be on alberto side against sub rex since alberto being an adult is more experienced while a sub rex doesnt know exactly what to do

[mental roost]

Tyrannosaurus had a knack for knocking out medium theropods...
Carchardontosaurids kinda sort of did but not really(they actually lived alongside some decently sized theropods if memory serves me right, not counting just the Kem Kem beds)

[mental roost]

Teenager rage

I'd honestly think that a sub adult Rex or Juvenile could pose a higher threat to humans than the adults, due to their higher speed, us being closer to their prey preference sizes, and also hormonal changes in their bodies.

[fresh laurel]

I mean utah is kinda the most adapted for human killing lets be real

in the test server Utah had the smaller size to hide and ambush pin which was insta kill for human. Not to mention how a fresh spawn juvie utah could bleed out a human lmao

[mental roost]

Carnotaurus I feel like, if it were to see a human out in the field.. the human's just dead.. At least with utah you can stab the fuck out of it, or shoot it with most firearms to take it out...although Utah is much sneakier than carno.

Carnotaurus gives off the vibes of an animal that'd just push mammals back into oppression just by existing

[fresh laurel]

I mean a shot gun to the head of carno if you can shoot it mid ram could just kill it or cancel the ram...

[mental roost]

Allosaurus too

Mammals oppressed back into tiny rodents

[fresh laurel]

I mean any smaller dinosaur stopped mammals from evolving from getting bigger lol

And for good Reason... Imagine a Hippo that could just tell deino to fuck off lmao

[mental roost]

Hippo bullies 50-60% Deinos

Adult Deinos:food

Carnotaurus trying to fight a Hippo sounds interesting..

[fresh laurel]

but if Hippo were to be upsized to make deino seem like the average croc today...

[mental roost]

No. Stop. 10 Hippo is bad

[fresh laurel]

Hippo would murder most of the roster ingame rn

denies Deino a chance to grow, doesnt care about Utah that much, I dont really see pachy killing a hippo and Teno well that would be a cool fight

[mental roost]

Hippo's fat bounces back and absorbs the shock and impact of Pachy's headbutt.

Stego challenges Hippo for supremacy.

[fresh laurel]

Stego would prob win if hippo cant bite the head

[mental roost]

Hippos = just the Isle's BS Boar AI but now in the water to torment Deinos.

[fresh laurel]

Imagine a hippo ai that is as fast as a water boar with the tracking of old boar

[mental roost]

Given that they released Carnotaurus AI that was broken af

Would not be surprised

[fresh laurel]

carno tho...

legit go juvie carno and bite a utah then make it chase you until you find a carno ai

ggez Utah dies in a few mins or seconds

and you earned free food!

[mental roost]

Wait.. did the Carno AI not attack other carnos?

[fresh laurel]

pretty sure it didnt

[mental roost]

AI still worries me with its current progress.

[fresh laurel]

ai utahs werent really help to utah lmao

they just only came to eat your food

you couldnt really rely on them for a pack hunt oof

[hollow canyon]

@fast violet I've also tested 3 raptors vs Carno and it felt good... aside from the fact that the goddamn pounce just bugs out and screws the match up over. 3v1 would be absolutely winnable for the Utahs if it wasn't for the fact that Utahs just end up either hanging in the air or missing pounces that they really shouldn't be missing(e.g. any point blank pounce).

If the pounce was working as intended it would be a pretty close match up imo.

2v1 is heavily in favour of Carno though based on the short tests

[dusky surge]

@fast violet it’s very cool that you had a positive experience with raptor v Carno, but there are more than just those two animals. I think the core issues are
A: Trying to get away from carno without needing to fight
B: Trying to fight carno as animals other than utah (pachy especially comes to mind)

[hollow canyon]

Pachy is the only one that's a real issue

Tenonto can fight off a Carno without much trouble

Pachy is a problem because it just turns like a bus for some reason

[dusky surge]

Only when charging ram tho

[hollow canyon]

Nah, also when normally running tbh

It just... turns really badly

I've played it 1v1 against a Carno, I've broken its leg... twice

[dusky surge]

They never changed base turn tho

[hollow canyon]

but the tracking just screws pachy over

[hollow canyon]

that's exactly the problem

[dusky surge]

Tracking dumb, agreed

[hollow canyon]

I mean I think they did back in QA

I think Pachy should turn a bit better while running and much better while ramming

I'd either revert that ramming turn rate or revert it by 50%

and see where that gets us

[dusky surge]

IDK, I always liked the idea of pachy having a poor turn but other tools to compensate

[hollow canyon]

also give it a bit better turning while running

[dusky surge]

I’d personally make ram significantly stronger, idk

[hollow canyon]

I don't see a reason why this animal should turn particularly badly, not opposed to it turning not that well but atm it's a bit absurd

I mean I've seen people complain about Pachy being tailridden by Carno now and it seems slightly exaggerated based on my short test couple of days ago but... it's still kind of bad

[dusky surge]

I like the way pachy is vulnerable at flanks and really damn dangerous while facing you

[hollow canyon]

the animal feels unwieldy and awkward all around

it's not the flanks that are the problem

it's the back atm

It should be vulnerable from the back, but not quite this vulnerable, like come on

Idk why it turns that badly in the first place and it was the first thing I thought about it during the QA(admittedly I'm pretty sure it did get a buff to its turn rate afterward)

As in - not after the release on the livebranch but I'm pretty sure the devs spoke about it getting a better turn rate during the public QA testing

[dusky surge]

It did

[hollow canyon]

Yea, that's what I thought, because at first that turn rate was even worse from what I recall

it's just that... turn rate is one of the most severe nerfs you can do to any animal

[dusky surge]

It was literally worse than carno

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I know, it was awful when it first came out

[dusky surge]

Although this was during the carnopocalypse event where carno could do literally everything

[hollow canyon]

Yes that was pre-nerf Carno with the already nerfed Tenonto

[dusky surge]

Carno turned extremely well at the time so it’s not really a fair comparison to make

[hollow canyon]

and then Pachy was given that awful turn rate

Yea, it's been tuned down severely on the livebranch

Although i think that update 2 Carno turned even better than that

not quite 100% sure about this though

[fast violet]

what you have typed agrees with me completely... Or so I can see so..... not sure what you mean.

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I was agreeing with you

[fast violet]

ah okay I thought so just not used to people agreeing with logic on here xD

[hollow canyon]

My experience was just about the same

nah, nah, I genuinely agree pretty much with everything

[fast violet]

I think carno are in a fantastic spot others are in a shit spot making people call for carno nerf that's not what we need we need others buf

[hollow canyon]

I think the only thing that Utah needs is a fix to that goddamn pouncewhich likely won't happen anytime soon

[lusty berry]

Yes Utah needs a pounce fixing

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I kind of agree, Carno is exactly where it should be pretty much, Tenonto needs a slight reduction to the cost of its tailslam

Pachy needs help, quite a bit of it

Utah needs to have its pounce fixed

[lusty berry]

also agree on tail slam. I don't think Pachy is as bad as you make it sound though. It was kind of just.. RUNNING and anything and everything that isn't an ambushing Deino

[hollow canyon]

In general I think Carno and Teno are both very viable

they both feel really good

[fast violet]

teno should be the strongest pound for pound given it cannot pick it's fights it's pure defensive strength therefore should be strongest on the back foot which it just isn't

[hollow canyon]

I mean... it's bad due to a couple of things, if tracking wasn't as broken good as it is it would be much better

[lusty berry]

Teno I definitely still feel people are just wanting the 2 mile long beat stick of non thought.

[hollow canyon]

it is the strongest, trust me

I've played Teno vs Carno multiple times on this patch

and I've won pretty much every fight I had vs Carno as a Teno

The issue is that Tenonto is a bit(much) harder to play than Carno, it's not an animal you can just pick up and go into the world and fight everything

A good Teno will pretty much always win against Carno

it just trades better when used correctly

[lusty berry]

I still don't think the turn is the thing that needs the most fixing.. Maybe if it's like... non running rams I could see a buff to that but not on the running or charging rams.

Tenonto I have been saying since the patch definitely is a force

[fast violet]

My concern is so many are leaning towards carno nerf it IS NOT THE ANSWER carno is fine others need buff leave carno as is buff raptor stam and pounce reliability and stop stego ability to rotate WHILE bucking and raptors can once again kills stegos

[hollow canyon]

I know, it's a bit worrisome that people want to get Carno nerfed again because they either play poorly against it or they run into a pack of 5 of them at once(which is a number of Carnos you shouldn't see in one place at all)

#balance-feedback message

This is what I had to say about Carno and Teno

[lusty berry]

I still think the hit box could use a small push to make it connect a little better BUT it's doing good. Carno nerf is defnitely not the answer, it wasn't buffed in any areas that would make it better it's just that Pachy's don't pack up and run at Carnos now. I am sure that people are just playing poorly and blame the number of Carnos on the "New toy syndrome" I explained weeks ago

Carno is now playable and the things that decimated them are more in line. least on tenonto

[hollow canyon]

I don't know about Pachy being good, I genuinely think the animal needs help although to be honest... Idk when I was 1v1ing a Carno I would've survived easily if it wasn't for how good tracking is

it's just impossible to lose the pursuer if they decide to go after you

and that's not how this match up should look like, in general if Pachy breaks Carno's leg and runs off behind the horizon - that should be it, the encounter is over and Carno should just limp around hoping that nothing find it in this state, meanwhile it gets to track Pachy from miles away

[lusty berry]

This convo was had with some of the QA players as well, it's really not that bad. But before? It was just running at Carno which was bad.. though people seem to think Carno's damage got buffed and it wasn't the case. And Yea it's how it should be but again.. the QA players didn't seem to have that big a issue with breaking the leg.

[hollow canyon]

Much less the damage, the amount of people that believe that Carno's running turn rate was buffed is even more insane

[lusty berry]

Yea they read the charge change and was like "OH NO THEY GOT BROKEN TURN RATES GSHGDHG"

[fast violet]

it was buffed but to the right amount

[lusty berry]

Someone DEFINITELY once said "They kill Teno with a charge and 2 alt bites" which is not the case..

at all.....

[hollow canyon]

the running turn? Nah, it wasn't

the only things that were buffed were: standing, walking and charge turn

• acceleration

[lusty berry]

But like.. Really I am all for small buffs and touches over nerfs. Pachy I do feel did need nerfs though.. Do I think it was over nerfed? Nah, but if it does feel too weak? It shouldn't get drastic changes. Small tweaks and tests.

And like Alt bite was changed to match standing turn

[hollow canyon]

Pachy definitely needed nerfs, I think it got nerfed too hard but that animal couldn't have stayed in that state, it was completely absurd

[lusty berry]

it's easier now to touch it up though, which is a good thing for it's health in my opinion.. It's a lot harder to nerf than buff. Truthfully still think the diets need a work still but I am sure they will fix that up in time with actual suggestions and not "Remove this because it sucks to play" Just you know.. Make it make more sense as i've said before.. the foods should be closer to jungle areas but still in plains and make the travels more triangulated areas and not the whole map.

BUT if you had to change the pachy turn stuff do you think they should revert the change? Or just slight tweaks Aken?

I think slight tweaks and not a full revert, because we end up on the same exact problem from before.

[hollow canyon]

I think they should try to partially revert the ramming turn rate nerf - put it at half between what it was and what it is now and let's see where that gets us

Aside from that I'd do a bit of a running turn rate buff for Pachy so as to allow it to dodge out of Carno's way easier

it's never going to do it as proficiently as Utah but that would be something

Also - nerf tracking

[lusty berry]

I take it that it locks on too much to where you don't want then?

[hollow canyon]

like seriously this mechanic is just outright cancerous and I hate it, I've been in way too many situations where I should've been completely safe and yet got found because of this fool-proof tracking

Do you mean tracking?

It basically lets you always find the thing you're looking for

[lusty berry]

yea like it finds you after like.. 10 minutes of being away

[hollow canyon]

Nah, but

when i was testing Pachy vs Carno

I broke Carno's leg, ran into the forest

and I pretty much should've been safe from it at that point, I haven't seen it for over a minute but it just kept on going after my tracks

I ran away again, circled around a bit to get it to lose the tracks

still kept on coming after me

I broke its leg AGAIN and it just kept on going

it's just stupid, the match up which is supposed to be based on - Pachy fractures Carno and gets out is currently: Pachy breaks Carno's leg, gets out... but it doesn't beause Carno can follow it with its broken leg

[lusty berry]

Maybe it ought to only be used on blood then instead of purely on foot prints? or maybe the tracks should be similar to like.. Legacy where it runs out after a certain distance?

[hollow canyon]

my friend who was tracking me on Carno commented that it's utterly stupid how easily he can follow me

In legacy it worked differently - you basically had tracks that were left more or less depending on how fast you moved

the slower you were moving the less tracks you'd leave

also - the main thing is I believe that dumb indicator that shows where to look for further tracks

also you can see them through foliage and everything iirc

so they're kind of impossible to miss

Also - Carno specifically should be hot garbage at tracking

[lusty berry]

no I know but I am saying it should work a lil like that but with blood and stop after a certain amount of time/ the bleed having healed or lessened over time. And that's the part I figured was the issue. The cone thats like "this way!" hence why I said a lil more like Legacy because you'd see the tracks but it didn't like tell you exactly the way they were going if you were too far and such.
I agree too Carno should not have perfect tracking.

[hollow canyon]

this animal has 0 business tracking anything, it's a pursuit predator that runs after you and either kills you or sods off

my bad I meant to say that it's not an endurance hunter

currently it's a pursuit predator that is also capable of endurance hunting because it's a god at tracking(like literally every other carnivore, Deino is another offender - i literally just sniff out any Deino that runs away from me on land and I walk after it until it gets trotted down)

idk, I'm fine with something like Cerato being this good at tracking

but not... literally everything

[lusty berry]

I think I mentioned this earlier because I know the team initially planned for Carno to be like.. most endurance or quickly gets the stam back so and has a lot to burn because it's Carno's Shtick so to speak. Mean while Utah's thing was the pounce and bleed. Who I also would be okay with Utah having a lil better tracking than Carno.

That was why I called it an Endurance Dino earlier. Not hat it's an endurance hunter but I can see what you mean by it shouldn't be an endurance hunter.

[dusky surge]

this i agree with. Except I might turn down carno's turnrate just a tad, but that's all. Carno doesn't need all these insane nerfs people are suggesting

[hollow canyon]

Idk what the team initially planned for Carno but I think that this ridiculous monstrosity that we had back in update 2 which could sprint for 5minutes or however long wasn't intentional

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it needs that turn rate nerf, the only animal whose kind of bad against it atm because the turn rate is Pachy

Tenonto does vs Carno just fine, Utah can escape it with ease

there's no reason to tinker with its turn rate again

[dusky surge]

atm, carno is a pretty competent ambush hunter and is finally in a niche where ambushing feels actually fucking decent

[lusty berry]

nah definitely wasn't, they made Carno into Allo atthat point. and No Carno doesn't need a turn rate nerf.. seriously it doesn't.. it got buffed because it was so bad... virtually unplayable to many.

[hollow canyon]

it feels decently good although in my experience I didn't do that much ambushing with it and neither was I ambushed by many(any?) Carnos so far

[lusty berry]

Oh i've been on both ends

[hollow canyon]

and I play Tenonto the most, I think the only Carno that tried to ambush me was a young adult that got deleted upon getting hit

[lusty berry]

It definitely feels good as an ambush/run you down in the open. hunter. I think I agree more and more on the tracking the more we talk about this

[hollow canyon]

Carno in general is exactly where it should be stat-wise, Teno is almost there, the match up between these two hasn't been this good in my experience since 3.5(I'd say it's better now than it was back then)

[dusky surge]

ACTUALLY, tracking would be where I nerf carno

[hollow canyon]

Can't comment on Utah because the pounce is just too buggy

[dusky surge]

I think that's the worst part about it

[hollow canyon]

^^^

[lusty berry]

tracking in general should be nerfed down then adjusted accordingly

[hollow canyon]

Carno should be one of the worst trackers in the game

[dusky surge]

Agreed

[hollow canyon]

Like outright... this is an animal that sees you and runs at you

[dusky surge]

I'd put carno with godawful NV and tracking

[hollow canyon]

it either kills you or sods off

[dusky surge]

And keep literally everything we have

[hollow canyon]

if it doesn't get a kill then and there it just goes away

[lusty berry]

to be fair I wouldn't say just god awful but.. definitely holding the compass upside down sometimes

[hollow canyon]

I'm completely in agreement... BUT

[dusky surge]

imho, carno and stego should be the two worst NV characters in the game

(of this current roster)

[hollow canyon]

won't Carnos just log out if they are incapable of hunting at night while also losing food at the same time during it?

[hollow canyon]

Agreed

[dusky surge]

this i can agree with and fully understand

[lusty berry]

Stego? I think I could agree to it but it's because of how Stego lived ( or is theorized to have lived) with another dino at the time to spot danger.

[dusky surge]

i would like dryo to be higher in terms of NV, meaning it could act as a "night scout" for stegos and actually you know, have a niche

[lusty berry]

again I think just.. holding the compass upside down every now and again you know what I mean? and technically the species found with stegos was similarto dryos in appearance least bone structure wise.. but a lot bigger.

[hollow canyon]

That's pretty much the only reason why I wouldn't want them to be too bad at night vision unless... idk they get some form of compensation for it? E.g. bad night vision but slower hunger drain(at night that is)?

[dusky surge]

yea, that's something i also considered

[lusty berry]

i'd agree with that, make them not need to hunt as much at night.. might solve some of the issue.

[dusky surge]

idk, seems like it'd lead to night AFK

[lusty berry]

I think we'd have to see how Troodons and night vision are done in the future updates first no?

[hollow canyon]

Yes... BUT there's an upside to this - it's true that the Carno in question can just afk at night because it doesn't lose much hunger, but in this case it is very much a prey item for animals that see better at night

[dusky surge]

but then again, most animals sleep at night, plus troodons and dilos will be lurking around to slaughter any unfortunate lost juvi they find so I'm not entirely sure if that's a bad thing

night becomes less of survival in terms of food and more survival in terms of not getting murdered by creatures of the night

[hollow canyon]

So for example Carno does kind of get free-ish growth at night at the cost of its bad vision combined with awful tracking but at the same time - it can get spotted and hunted by animals that'd run for its lives if they'd encountered it during the day

[hollow canyon]

yea that ^

[lusty berry]

If thats the case then diet shouldn't affect NV then you think?

[dusky surge]

it'd be interesting to have hunger drain slowed by say, 1/3 or even 1/2 during the night periods for day-based hunters, and drain slowed during the day for animals like troodon or dilo

[hollow canyon]

This is generally pretty much in the realm of speculation atm, we need to see how NV will actually end up working

[dusky surge]

no it should imho

[lusty berry]

Or maybe it's more foggy at a distance the worse the diet is?

[dusky surge]

prepare yourself for night or face consequences

[hollow canyon]

I wouldn't slow it for Dilo and Troodon

at all

[lusty berry]

^

[dusky surge]

troo and dilo seem like they'd suffer a lot more during the day

[hollow canyon]

Just based on my experience as a Dilo in legacy - you don't "hunt" in the strict sense of that word during the day, but you still "hunt"

[dusky surge]

and i know some people are advocating for "brawler dilo that can easily fight off and kill packs of utahs" but I still find such a concept ridiculous

[hollow canyon]

I'd always move around during the day, keeping to foliage and forests

looking for the next target which I'd follow around until sun has set and then the fun would start

[lusty berry]

I don't thin dilo's should be as fast as they were in legacy in my opinion.. Still fast but like.. I don't think they should be close to like. an Allo.

[hollow canyon]

I had situations where I moved after a pack of 3 subrexes for half a day(they'd attacked me around midday) until it got dark and i started killing them

[lusty berry]

Maybe more brawler in terms of like.. a bit harder of a bit for the bleed to start and thin etc or inject venom? I don't think it should fight a pack of Utahs

[dusky surge]

my primary issue with the concept of slower hunger for carno and stego during night is that it really only assists these animals, and other animals either benefit more or don't benefit at all

[lusty berry]

maybe better in a flat brawl with a Utah but if the Utah jumps it then it may suffer bleed side?

[dusky surge]

i still think a utah pounce would fuck a dilo up massively

[hollow canyon]

I mean, I'd say it might be something worth checking when we have a proper night cycle

[lusty berry]

yea I agree, utah pounce would and should decimate Dilo since venom and poison will be a thing

[dusky surge]

unless they give dilo huge feature creep like bleed resist and even the "ability to use its powerful arms to easily throw off a utah", it's going to get shredded

look at pachy

[lusty berry]

I think the arm thing would be more like bucking for Dilo

[dusky surge]

some people genuinely have argued that dilo should use its arms to, and I quote, throw off a utahraptor that is pouncing it

[lusty berry]

maybe it can't move so quickly when pounced so it has to peel them off?

[dusky surge]

like who the fuck looks at this and thinks this thing can somehow do some magic to pull a utah off its flank

[lusty berry]

yea not magically but like.. maybe beat at the Utah

but not yeet it off

I think Bary more or less would be more of the "throw the fucking Utah off"

[dusky surge]

i still think the bary concept art is cool but kind of ridiculous

it doesn't need some sort of utah throw nor does it need to slam a deino's mouth shut

[lusty berry]

nah but it's major thing has been it's claws in research if I recall.

even it's name means like huge claws. It could again just be part of like a bucking mechanic to get them off and may not do actual damage or as much down time. I'd imagine the pounce still would do quite a bit. but it's definitely got to do more than just bite since it's major thing should be the claws

Also a reminder to people who do take concept art seriously.. Don't believe it 100%.. Like if it were to be taken that way.. then Magyasaurus would be able to yeet Utah by the tail. no.. it's not gonna happen. but it's fun to toss ideas around but know that it just means more than likely focal points for the dinos.. So like Bary would likely just be more claw stuff no I don't think it'll actually dig into Utah or should be able to hurt Utahs and chuck them. Bucking mechs are something to consider for CERTAIN dinos.. Bary over Dilo in this type of scenario..

[dusky surge]

then just make an attack the claws, idk why it'd NEED some kind of special "grab-off" mechanic

[dusky surge]

also that concept art never showed magy yeeting any utahs lmao

[lusty berry]

nah it was a troodon but it's the purpose of saying it isn't gonna happen lol. Don't read too much into it.

I just said Utah because it was part of the Bary part and I defaulted to Utah

lmao

[dusky surge]

how do we know it isnt gonna happen lmao, troodon is only like 40kg

[lusty berry]

to be fair.. theres like.. 2 version of Magyarosaurus and the one we are getting is give or take as big as certato, not exact but you know.. technicalities.. ALSO that'd be so.. unneeded.. Funny as fuck but unneeded since it's an herbi.

[dusky surge]

magy is quite a bit bigger than cerato

it's bigger than tenonto

[spare badger]

By 50kg I think

[hollow canyon]

Ermmm... wouldn't be too sure about that tbh

[lusty berry]

I mean.. it's not technically bigger.. it's neck is up up higher.

[hollow canyon]

From what I recall the reason why Nova made it 1650kg was quite questionable and doesn't have much paleo-backing

[lusty berry]

While I don't think THIS will happen but this is about what I see to match that pic Dino posted

[hollow canyon]

I will speak to him about it and ask him if he thinks that Magy's going to be 1650kg but I genuinely don't think that the devs intend for this animal to be this big

they specifically chose it due to its small size

[spare badger]

Didn't Nova have magy smaller than teno at one point?

[lusty berry]

Thats a different Magy

[hollow canyon]

it was smaller most of the time

[lusty berry]

theres two types of magy

[hollow canyon]

It was made larger only at one point when Nova thought that Cerato might be 1600kg

He just left it like that but I genuinely wouldn't even be surprised if he forgot about this animal, I will ask him what's up with it when I next see him in chat

And yes there's 2 types of Magy

[spare badger]

Magy will probably be closer to 1300kg

maybe even less

[lusty berry]

Maybe

[hollow canyon]

"Magyarosaurus was estimated to be 1.1 metric tons (1.1 long tons; 1.2 short tons) in weight."

That's where Nova had it in the beginning

[spare badger]

Makes sense

[hollow canyon]

Its size fluctuated because there are different species of this animal potentially

[lusty berry]

yea

[hollow canyon]

there's on which iirc goes above 4t

we're not getting that one for sure

[lusty berry]

I don't think it should be smaller if it's going to be introduced along with Cerato

[hollow canyon]

It is around the size of Cerato - both are 1.1t realistically

[lusty berry]

yea realisitically

[hollow canyon]

Most animals go with their irl estimates for the most part, the only exceptions are Tenonto and Deino

[spare badger]

Deino is in a range of smaller estimates yea?

[hollow canyon]

No, Deino is just artificially made smaller than its current highest estimate

in general it's Fadeno's estimate that puts it at 14t

most people generally agree that his work on it is legit

although I've heard that it might get a small size nerf

all the other estimates put Deino at much smaller sizes

iirc old works of Random and others put it at ~5t+

which is much smaller than what we have in the game

[spare badger]

I feel like Deino shouldn't be bigger (granted its just a poorly designed playable which is why i say that but still)

[spare badger]

They put it somewhere in the middle which works reasonably gameplay wise

[hollow canyon]

This is Deino's estimate prior to Fadeno

[lusty berry]

What makes you say it's poorly designed? (actual question because I like to hear point of views)

[hollow canyon]

pardon me - it was ~6t

[spare badger]

One shots half the cast and does basically nothing to the rest besides being a nuisance

[hollow canyon]

This isn't necessarily true - Deino does much better than vs Stego than people say

it's just that Deino players are trash

like literally - almost everyone playing this animal is hot garbage with it

[spare badger]

I mean there's really no reason for a stego to stay besides the fact deino players are garbage

anything above 4 tons can tank enough hits to turn and run away from the water

anything under is one shot and there isnt all that much counterplay

[hollow canyon]

My experience yesterday - I killed a Deino larger than myself while losing around half my hp - I've healed up and another Deino swims up to me while I'm munching on a Deino body(this one was smaller than me) I kill him, get back to resting, his friend attacks me while I'm resting I kill him too. My hp? I lost less than 1/3rd in that second fight

Note that the fight was taking place on land

[lusty berry]

To be fair, thats kinda how you are supposed to deal with it? it's an ambush hunter with Apex level bite force (may or may not be literal until we actually know what they are doing) But is super aquatic? Just sounds like it's out of it's element kind of things

[hollow canyon]

People still think that Deino combat is just mashing lmb hoping for the best

[spare badger]

I personally think that doing a dice roll to potentially lose up to 3 hours of progress (dunno how long alberto will take to grow) with 0 counterplay is bad design

[lusty berry]

To be fair.. I only started playing Evrima a few months and didn't know about alt attacks until like 2 weeks in.. SO I can understand but.. I also you know.. learned..? lmao

I think once like Bary, Sucho, and the likes are done not many will be thinking about Deino especially if they do get a weight nerf

or size nerf.. my bad

[spare badger]

If there was some reasonable counterplay to deino lunge i would be fine with it

but there really isnt, especially since there are no shallow spots anymore

[lusty berry]

I could understand that. Granted I've learned to not overstay things but I see the argument because it does suck.. I hadn't seen Deino in so long I didn't know there was no counterplay to it

[spare badger]

yea, like if your friends could do damage to it so deino loses stam or something

granted its bad counterplay since its 100% group dependent but its something

[spare badger]

definitely excited for bary and sucho

[lusty berry]

See.. I am not sure still only because like.. Utahs would more than likely be dead anyways? And like.. the difference between that or getting chomped by a Rex for example?

[spare badger]

cause rex you have the chance of seeing if you are paying attention

there is 0% chance to see deino cause all water is murky as hell

[lusty berry]

Well I mean specifically like Utah to bite force thing

[spare badger]

yea its not a good solution and only really helps things like allo

[lusty berry]

I am also wondering about Cerato

and well.. I love Spinosaurids..

[spare badger]

like, balance in this game is supposed to be "can't fight, run, can't run, fight" and deino doesnt work with that

[spare badger]

same

[lusty berry]

so I am excited for them. And I get you, maybe if they are like closer to the shallows they can be seen in a silhouette? Not a very visible one but one that can tip you off it's there?

idk.. likely would need to be worked on more to get it to not just screw Deino over ..

[spare badger]

maybe there is some way you can react to it so if you're on guard you can jump backward like animals do irl

ambush predators work cause if the prey is diligent it can see you coming, and if you're good you can hide

[hasty coyote]

Here’s the problem with deino lunge. If you add counter-play, then most people will learn it. Then deinos can’t hunt because everyone uses the counter-play. It’s basically the same issue as shallow water. All around, the deino play style is just toxic. They either 1-shot you or they can’t eat.

[dusky surge]

kind of what happens when you have a big gator as a playable

[spare badger]

Therefore deino bad playable

[dusky surge]

disagree

deino cool

[hasty coyote]

deino is cool, just not a good choice for the current ecosystem imo. The main issue is that there are too many, and nothing that can fight them other than each other. However, they can decide to die by stegos

[somber sphinx]

We need more semi-aquatic to counter deinos

[spare badger]

The only one that can is spino
Sucho can only kill subs

[analog mirage]

• spread out semi aquatics

[somber sphinx]

That too

[analog mirage]

The only semi aquatic who would counter deino is Spino and we don’t need that

The best option to kill a deino is to starve it out

[somber sphinx]

Yeah but i mean we need animals that can kill juvi deinos like bary or sucho

[analog mirage]

Austro or Beipi

Bary sure, sucho seems a little too good for the ecosystem rn

[somber sphinx]

Yeah sucho is to big for our current roster

But something like austro, beipi or bary works

[analog mirage]

Sucho can at least decently hunt on land

So it poses a threat to stuff like Carno if it got the ambush

[somber sphinx]

Would sucho be fast or slow acctualy?

[analog mirage]

Slow trot

Ok run

[somber sphinx]

I could see that

[analog mirage]

Sucho could be one of the last things added

[somber sphinx]

For evrima?

[analog mirage]

Yeah

[somber sphinx]

Think so too

[analog mirage]

Only thing I don’t see being added (playable) is Apex’s, the rest of psuedo apex’s, Allo

[somber sphinx]

Def

[analog mirage]

Tbf stego shouldn’t even be here but we get what we get ig

I hope to see Quetz join evrima

[somber sphinx]

Quetz seems fun

[analog mirage]

Since what punch hinted at is it being able to snatch smaller creatures

[somber sphinx]

Actuall stork

[analog mirage]

I wanna swoop down, land, grab and fly

[somber sphinx]

Would quetz be able to bite while fliyng like ptera

[analog mirage]

It shouldn’t be able to

[somber sphinx]

Yeah seems to op if it would

[analog mirage]

However I think it should have high damage peck on the ground + a good reach

[somber sphinx]

Yeah

But it would be weak

Not the bite but its health

[analog mirage]

At the cost of having bad health, maybe little more than Utah health so it’s not being pinned by a singular Utah

[old hull]

interesting idea but given how much stronger stego is compared to deino , i dont think giving it fractures will matter

[analog mirage]

If a deino fractures your head

You won’t see.

[old hull]

still , you will know where the croc is even if your vision is blurry

[somber sphinx]

Didnt deino have a fracture bite before?

[analog mirage]

True

[dusky surge]

yes, for a bit

[old hull]

what could be done is make lunge affect larger targets differently , like utahs pounce pins small targets but latches on the side for bigger ones

so you have maybe a bite and roll attack for when you lunge a stego or other crocs , would make croc on croc fights alot less shitty too

[analog mirage]

So kinda a tug of war with little dot

[dusky surge]

i feel like you're neglecting to mention the fact it also halves all damage

that's pretty significant

[analog mirage]

Oh wait that’s right

[old hull]

would it tho , stego doesnt attack with its head

[analog mirage]

Wait isn’t it only for bite attacks though

[dusky surge]

all damage

[stark knoll]

Should be bite damage only

[analog mirage]

Change it to bite based attacks only

[dusky surge]

pretty sure it was all last i checked

[old hull]

that is very silly if it is/was

[analog mirage]

My head got shattered, guess my tail is weaker

[stark knoll]

You're thinking of the old bad diet debuff

[somber sphinx]

A thug of war mechanic would be great so that you dont get one shot by deinos or a way to get out

[stark knoll]

Used to be -50% for all attacks

[analog mirage]

Then yeah a tug of war with whoever has more stamina wins,

[old hull]

anything to make croc on croc fights less boring will get my support , anything is better then what it is rn

[analog mirage]

Crocs pulling each other’s skin

[somber sphinx]

Tbh How can you make deino vs deino more fun?

Or stego vs stego for that matter

[analog mirage]

Stego tails lock

[old hull]

not sure , i dont know anything about game development so im not sure what the limits are

[analog mirage]

If two stegos swing each other. They lock and whoever has more stamina can pull loose when the other runs out

[hasty coyote]

they honestly should add more stuff like the pachy v pachy interaction.

[white cove]

Fellas, I want you to look at the animations currently in the game and think about these suggestions of locking tails/pulling skin

currently when stego kills anything with t he tail it briefly teleports to its head just to sit on said tail

when deino lunges things they instatwist in time and space to fit loosely in the mouth and clip like a motherfucker

and this took the better part of a year

[slim dragon]

Easier said than done

[sinful cove]

That deino fracture idea is something ive been saying forever, i hope they try it

[somber sphinx]

Fracture bite or lunge.

[spare badger]

I feel like that will fuck over some pseudos in the future, sucho especially

[white cove]

I feel like that encourages a really funky playstyle

Lunging out to fracture, then chasing things down - especially pseudos yeah

maybe just enough to bork your vision but at that point: why?
It won't accomplish anything for deino players and will just be annoying for things that shouldn't need to worry about deino

[spare badger]

Like especially since sucho is also a semi aquatic it will see deino semi often and if it can just lunge and break it's leg and kill it that would be kinda annoying

[white cove]

I just don't see how anyone could argue deino is weak rn

it has 2 matchups that it doesnt win with one button

1 being itself

[spare badger]

They attack stego thagomizers before the tug of war mechanic exists

[white cove]

the other being a matchup never forced upon you, but that you actively seek out

[spare badger]

Yea

[covert cave]

from my experience, it's not deino that needs a change, it's the stego tail swing in water doing the same amount of damage that needs a change

[white cove]

it's almost like complaining that ptera loses matchups against cliffs because you keep flying into them

[white cove]

fishing lures work on fish, are you a fish?

[covert cave]

yes

glub glub

[white cove]

🎣

[covert cave]

I just think it makes since that water should interfere w/ attacks like that

[white cove]

Sure, but it's an unnecessary thing to put development time towards

[covert cave]

I agree

im not saying it needs to be in soon

[spare badger]

Stego can't even see anything in the water, if deino just stays on the bottom it's fine

[white cove]

Also, it's not really as sensible as folks think it is

stego doesn't really swing its tail through the water, it jabs

spearfishing, which works just fine

[spare badger]

Yea
Stego doesn't have a swing per se

I don't understand why people want that changed

Like it's not like stego can even see you, let alone spam it cause stam

[white cove]

because they want to win the spamfight at the water's edge because there's no 'L' in 'deinosuchus' 💪

[covert cave]

I'm not even saying in reference to the stego-deino matchup, I just think it would accentuate the territories more

[spare badger]

Also no L in Stegosaurus

[white cove]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-breaking-bad-sad-crying-phone-gif-20022348

[covert cave]

i dont think deino should beat steg at all unless it's swimming

[white cove]

Fixing a problem not there; everything under 4 tons knows about the territories.

[spare badger]

Lmao

I haven't seen a real reason to make stego's stab bad in water

[white cove]

it wins a totally avoidable matchup in which it has agency

[covert cave]

just my opinion I don't really care about it that much

[white cove]

I mean, at the end of the day stego only wins matchups that predators start with it

[covert cave]

yeah

[white cove]

it's not running down any carnos/utahs/deinos (at least, in the water or close to it) and beating the shit out of them

[covert cave]

or it's a ninja

[half girder]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350260027129865/958522501770666004 no, pachy should be able to kill lmao wtf

nerf the dmg??

bro pachy would be soooo boring otherwise, its a damn pvp game

[prime folio]

I keep waiting for people to give different feedback for balance, but it is just the same stuff over and over

just wait for patch at this point lol

[fresh laurel]

bet you didnt see this yet...

Give hypsi or Utah a tree latch

[prime folio]

yeah... saw that already too

I'm kinda new to the game though... do they actually make balance changes based on feedback or do they just do whatever they want

[fresh laurel]

feels like both

balance is mostly made generally on the community complaints

sometimes its a dev choice as seen in update 3.75

[dawn geode]

Just hypsi

[covert cave]

Tree latch should be given to herra instead of Utah

[dawn geode]

Herrera is already gonna be able to spend 90% of its life in trees they mean a latch with no climbing

I think hypsi should be able to scramble up trees high enough to at least get to a branch tho

Cause ingame it’s gonna be arboreal

[covert cave]

They could also give it a latch similar to pteranodon

Like it jumps to a desired height and presses a button to stick to the tree it’s facing

But climbing would be better

[mental roost]

Stego's head already takes 3x damage(or 2.5x), by the way. Everything else's head takes 1.5x damage.

[white cove]

yeah isnt that suggestion already in the game

[analog mirage]

Nerf the damage but make the fractures 100% unless on poor diet or bad diet whichever one is 0 nutrients.

[azure crescent]

pretty sure its 2x iirc

also pachy's head doesn't take bonus damage i think

[dusky surge]

pachy's head takes less damage than body lmao

[azure crescent]

yeah that's what i said

[mental roost]

You'd have to ask someone in QA or whoever does a lot of damage testing for a definitive answer for stego headshot multiplier, my memory is only so good rip.

[azure crescent]

it's fine man no worries

[mental roost]

It's definitely higher than the other playables though.

[azure crescent]

yeah

[mental roost]

Ayyy, thanks.

[old hull]

really dont get why people demand pachy basically dealing no damage at all , why tho

if a utahraptor pins you , you deserve to die for being careless , same goes for deino lunge/carnos charge/tenos previous tailslam , so why must pachy have this bs where its not allowed to kill things

[slim dragon]

Cause herbivores aren't allowed to kill things

[old hull]

oh yeah true , i forget sorry

eat grass and die

because something that hits hard enough to break bones should not deal damage afterall , if i wack someone with a sledgehammer irl , that will not hurt them at all

by this logic , if rexs gimmick is still to break bones it should deal no damage at all , only fractures , lets see how fun that is ;)

[slim dragon]

No cause rex is a carnivore

It deserves to oneshot everything PLUS deal fractures

[golden coral]

@stoic vaporYou want to put stego on the same level of survivability/capability that deino has? You do realize deino is far superior compared to stego if we look at things overall, right?

[stoic vapor]

I was talking about stego against deino specifically

[mental roost]

Ssshh, Deino needs to rule the server with an iron fist and be rewarded for spamming alt bite on Stegos despite having the ability to swim away and tank the most damage in the game .

[slim dragon]

Deino doesn't deserve to be able to 1v1 a stego

A deino with no competitor is far more oppressive than a stego with no competitors

[golden coral]

So, we can make stego/deino more fair, if stego gets all the rest of the good stuff deino has, deal? :p

[stoic vapor]

I never said deino should crush a stego, i said it needs to be a fair and balanced 1v1, because deino does not stand a chance currently

[hasty coyote]

I don’t think people want pachy to deal 0 damage. I think they want the ram to give more consistent breaks, but nerf the damage to compensate. You don’t want a pachy being able to kill a carno 1v1 because they got a leg break. Maybe a 1v2 and likely a 1v3 the carno will die

[golden coral]

Deino can 1v1 stego, if it's good and plans it out and the stego isn't really good. At the very least it can make the stego retreat. 2v1 and the deinos will almost always win unless they mess up or the stego somehow predicts them really well. Even if they might lose one deino, the stego will die at that point.

[spring dawn]

Stego wrecks deino because 99,9% of all deino players face tank a stego's tail instead of ...You know, swimming away

[hasty coyote]

Plus, pachy has alt attacks for Utah, so needing the ram damage should not hurt that matchup too much. You can already nearly kill a raptor by hitting an alt and using alt while it is down

[glad rock]

not really, stegos can go anywhere they want while deinos can only stay near or in water

[slim dragon]

If stego didn't kill deino 1v1 then it could go anywhere it wants
Like it did before Alt Bite nerf

[glad rock]

no deinos NEED water every 15 mins so they cant get away from a water source

[slim dragon]

Still not necessary
Deino vs stego shouldn't be 50/50
It should definitely be in stego's favor
Unless the environment favors deino (for example, in water)

[slim dragon]

You can go long distances in 15 mins

[old hull]

i managed to cross from swamp to the old south pond as a deino once , you can get pretty far yeah

[bright cargo]

Hate to break it to you but no dino deserves to have a fair 1v1 vs another. Some dinos are just better suited for certain engagements. Truth is stego is pretty balanced right now, maybe a tad bit underpowered vs the future mid tier dinos whenever they're added, but for right now pretty balanced. It feels strong because none of the dinos are supposed to be stego hunters. It's the easiest thing in the world to avoid stegos. Take your food and swim away.

[glad rock]

yeah but what about the way back?

[glad rock]

well what about body gaurding?

[old hull]

stego is just dull , they dont serve any purpose to any server besides being slightly inconvenient sometimes , not OP per say but why even have them in if they are not contributing to anything

[slim dragon]

There isn't only one water source on the map

[bright cargo]

what about water guarding vs non adults? do they deserve a fair fight also?

[glad rock]

man im just not gonna argue with you people, your way too delusional

[slim dragon]

You're way too oblivious about what happened when there was nothing that could beat Deino on land

[bright cargo]

I don't understand how body guarding is an issue when you can just drag bodies in to the water. If the body is too far away to drag then that is more of a you not fighting in your main ecosystem issue

[golden coral]

@glad rockWhat's the issue? That a stego body guards a kill? How? You can lunge/grab, kill stuff in the water.

Honestly, most of the kills should be done by drowning, so you already have them out of reach of everything else when they die?

[sonic needle]

its not only about the Deino. Every Carnivore has the Problem and i dont believe that a Utah or Carno can drag its pray to the water

[bright cargo]

grab a chunk of meat and run away. Nothing is perfect, you just have to take an L sometimes

[rancid bluff]

pretty hard to do with a stego standing on top of it and you have to stand still to be able to grab the chunk

[bright cargo]

It takes 2 seconds to rip off a chunk. If you're attacking a group with a stego that nearby and you know they do this then that's pretty dumb

[rancid bluff]

ah so if I'm starving and a stego is with a teno, it's my fault that the stego chooses to stand over the body
and 2 seconds is all the time a stego needs to swipe you

[glad rock]

https://tenor.com/view/based-gigachad-chad-gif-23901955

[bright cargo]

If you're starving there is ai. You can't expect players to play as if there are body down rules

I've killed carnos and utahs when they're in a pack and they still kill me even though there is a body down that they can eat. Should I start complaining about that also?

[slim dragon]

I would say "dont attack a group of prey if you know you can't just kill one and run away with your food" but that's probably impossible to do

[wise sparrow]

I feel like once herbivores have actual gameplay this problem will be less prevalent.
Herbivores body guard because they want to fight as it is the only thing there is to do atm

[rancid bluff]

by your own logic, your fault for being near them

[bright cargo]

I don't hunt them, I'm going for food. Carnos camp the northwest raddish spawns now and it's tough to get that nutrient when they're around, but I have barely seen any herbi player complain about that in the discord

[glad rock]

bc they're carnivores they need the food

[rancid bluff]

probably because carnivores actually have a reason to do that, that's an effective way for them to get food
why does a herbivore guard a body? it isn't going to get food from it, just waste everyone's time

[bright cargo]

and herbivores are outnumbered so they camp bodies so you starve. One fewer adult out there

[glad rock]

they guard bc they lack a father figure

[rancid bluff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/401470471750811669/844367249611292702/trollartistic.png

[slim dragon]

It helps reduce the carni population by making them starve to death, thus increasing their own chances of survival

[wise sparrow]

It's the only thing to do. Either go for their diets and get swarmed by carnos or they fuck with solos and things that are an actual fight.
As I said, there is literally nothing to do other than fight atm

[spare badger]

Getting a carnivore killed in any way possible is beneficial to a herbi
Especially since carnos overrun most servers

[wise sparrow]

That too^

[spare badger]

And since herbis have nothing better to do they bodygaurd

[stoic vapor]

Sure, im saying we should have the ability to defend against it, and we can't, thats what makes it frustrating

[spare badger]

This will be somewhat remedied by nesting since it gives you something to do

[glad rock]

bro does everyone lack father figures in this server?

[spare badger]

Nah we're just bored

I don't bodyguard myself since I hate sitting in one spot for too long but I understand why a lot of people do it

[slim dragon]

It's all a matter of planning who you hunt, and when

[spare badger]

The best way to avoid bodygaurding is to hunt a lone herbi or a group that can't fight back

Although there aren't really any of those that people play...

[wise sparrow]

*Literally any pachy group

[bright cargo]

there is plenty of ai so no reason to be starving, and you also have 2 sources for each nutrient

[wise sparrow]

If you starve as a carnivore rn its completely your fault. Literally all the ai is a free meal and most herbis take 2 brain cells to completely counter

[spare badger]

I played carno and Utah once and bro there are so many boars that grazing might as well be a thing for carnivores seeing how common they are
There is no real reason a carnivore should starve

[spring dawn]

So why aren't people crying about carnos camping spots with herbivore food? Specifically NW for radish in particular

[slim dragon]

Ai should be buffed ngl

[spare badger]

Dunno
I've seen it a few times before while playing teno, they camp the entrance to old shallows where radishes are

[bright cargo]

Not enough herbi players cause carnivore is free

[rancid bluff]

because carnivores do that for food
unlike stegos who do it for entertainment

[wise sparrow]

Because

1. Its already been brought up

2. No one is playing anything but carno so there is no one to complain at this point

[rancid bluff]

and that

[spare badger]

I only saw complaints at the beginning of the patch

After that many teno players play teno less or shut up about it

[wise sparrow]

Diets in general need a complete overhaul.
Like starting from square one overhaul cause this just sucks.

Honestly somehow BoB is more balanced than the isle atm

[spare badger]

I had high hopes for the system but it wasn't executed all too well

[bright cargo]

Diets either needs to be removed, or you come across the nutrients randomly. They shouldn't have unique spawn locations. They got rid of oasis because they didn't want "hotspots" but yet they just created new ones with the diet

[spring dawn]

Uhm ... no. Most carno players right now mass kill everything. They will kill even with tons of bodies around.

[wise sparrow]

Honestly less of the map is being used because if that spot isn't the 1 spot a diet is rn no one goes there. Other than juvi carnivores to graze on ai for a free adult

[wise sparrow]

That's because there is nothing stopping them.
Even 3 carnos can clean out an area, so when you have 17 carnos, they can basically wipe the map

[bright cargo]

Herbivore should play with morals but carnivores nope yes yes

[spare badger]

It wasn't a problem before since Teno and Pachy were broken, but now...

[wise sparrow]

Especially because we still have the stupid idea of carnivores should heal faster in general than herbivores

[spare badger]

The devs consistently overnerf and overbuff things it seems

[bright cargo]

I think teno and pachy were just fine

[wise sparrow]

A carno can be on death's door and heal in 5 minutes while a teno can go on vacation while it heals and come back to barely being above half

[bright cargo]

If you were outnumbered by them just run away. Carno and utah are faster than both

[spare badger]

As a teno player I can assure you there were busted
1 Teno could clean out a pack of 2 carnos (maybe even 3) since a stun lasted long enough to kill a carno in 1 go

And Pachy was just bugged

[wise sparrow]

Oasis was the real problem because there was SO MANY herbivores that it made them feel op, when, if you got in a 1v1 or 1v2, herbivores were in a great spot for the most part

Stun was also a big problem.
But instead of changing the way it works the devs keep adding dumb bandaid fixes

Now pachy is punished for landing a hit by being forced to wait 10 seconds

[spare badger]

Yea

Last patch 2 tenos were also basically untouchable

[wise sparrow]

Teno is in a... okay(?), spot atm but the fact that there is always like 10 carnos makes it feel like teno is shit.
Its stamina on it is also shitty

[spare badger]

Now they would be ok if they got a tad of stam buffs

[wise sparrow]

Also because juvi herbivores are forced to go into fields as babies.

[spare badger]

I try and spawn in northwest as a baby, eat 275% radish then stay at swamp till I'm an adult

It's definitely the easiest way

[wise sparrow]

Carnivores can get perfect diet by eating a braindead ai on the edge of the map.

Herbivores have to run multiple marathons constantly just to maybe keep up with carnivore's growth

While also being forced into hotspots with little to no cover

[bright cargo]

If they keep the diet the way it is now a second option for each nutrient for herbi would be better atleast

[spring dawn]

If there's no incentive to play the prey animal ... then why even bother?

[old hull]

well by any logic , you wont unless you just like a particular herbivore

herbivores atm with the exception of stego are weaker in everyway compared to their carnivore counterparts , harder to use , take longer to grow and are slower

also to those saying that current carno and teno are "ok" what on earth have you been smoking and where do i get some lol

[spring dawn]

And who are the carnos lmao, must be real real bad

[wise sparrow]

Teno can kill a solo carno. Although it takes pretty much a its stamina.

The second it's a 2v1 the teno just evaporates

[old hull]

just because it can kill it doesnt make the teno not horrible

if equal skilled players fight teno will get curbstomped , its so onesided its not even funny

even in the previous patch where carno was "weak" according to this place carno could still run straight under a tenos tail , tank a ton of tailslams and still walk away alive , meanwhile teno gets charged once and its basically dead

[carmine patrol]

carno was most most balanced in the last patch, it was the players who didn't know how to use their animal

[old hull]

agreed 1 million %

[carmine patrol]

they would go straight for the teno's tail and expect to win even tho carno is actually supposed to rely on ambush

personally I have no problems winning 1v1s against carnos rn, but as Gaming anky said, you stand no chance against 2 carnos

[spring dawn]

Carno is so ridiculously OP - the ram does 500 dmg, doesn't stun, being able to spam LMB without losing stam while a dino such a teno or pachy relies heavily on their stam to fight AND flee - but carno can simply just ride your butt and spam LMB :)

[carmine patrol]

I wrote about how teno vs carno combat could be more balanced in #balance-feedback

[spring dawn]

I just upped it, I totally agree

[golden coral]

Carno isn't really designed for ambush though, plains animal + that charge, not really ideal

[carmine patrol]

ty ^^

[spring dawn]

That's why it makes absolutely no sense carno even has a ram. In reality, it hunted small prey, relied on ambush, like being the cheetah of the dinosaur world.

[carmine patrol]

you have to stalk your prey first

you have to be patient

sadly patience isn't a thing most carno players have

[wise sparrow]

Carno can work as an ambush predator but its pre patch hunger drain didn't really let it. Nowadays carno could most definitely be put in an ambush predator role

[carmine patrol]

yep, all carno needed was a hunger drain buff and a slight stam buff, nothing else

[old hull]

a good chunk of the dumb carno players also seem to forget that carno is just a flimsy armless sausage with long legs , yet they want to be this beefy unstoppable brawler

[golden coral]

That does not mean that it's a well designed animal for ambushing :p Stalking prey and all that goes for most predators really, just as being patient does. But the charge is not a good ambush tool, unlike pounce or deino lunge

[carmine patrol]

so are you saying carno should be a brawler that can fight teno/pachy which are animals that can't run from it?

[wise sparrow]

Remove carno
Problem solved

[hollow canyon]

Means that the match up is balanced right now, you're not supposed to win 1v2 aganst Carnos as a Teno, the fact that you could last patch really says it all about the balance back then.

[golden coral]

I'm not saying carno should be "this" or "that", all I said was that it's not designed for ambush. Honestly, to me carno should be a pursuit predator that just runs down the smaller things it can "snap up". But then I would rework it as well, remove the charge and give it something better for nabbing said smaller stuff.

[carmine patrol]

so what to do if you see 2 carnos in the plains as a teno?

[hollow canyon]

I use water to escape

[spring dawn]

Die

[carmine patrol]

I said in the plains

no water

[hollow canyon]

that or the woods, I've done it before already, if you're so far out in the plains that there's no water then good for the carnos and GJ to you

[hollow canyon]

I rethink what I did incorrectly that caused me to be alone in the plains

[wise sparrow]

Granted the only reason teno really interacts with carno atm is because its artificially forced to.
Teno was supposed to be a wetlands animal

[hollow canyon]

There's 0 reason for Tenonto to be so far out in the plains all alone, I mean the only sitautions where I did die like that was because I specifically went into the southern plains to look for some Carnos to fight

[carmine patrol]

migrating to find radish root cus diets for herbis are messed up

[hollow canyon]

Radish isn't that far from water, I haven't had issues with it at all

you don't actually even need the water in that place

[wise sparrow]

But the devs put zero thought into our roster so half of out animals that shouldn't interact with each other are forced to because devs go brrr

[hollow canyon]

you can just climb one of the rocks and Carnos can't do jack to you then

[carmine patrol]

I said migrating, so you're going from SE to NW

[spring dawn]

You have to cross the map to find your 3 nutrients ............

[hollow canyon]

And? How do you find yourself in the middle of the plains during that migration? The vast majority of that route travels along the rivers.

I think you just pick some awful path if you keep finding yourself in the middle of the plains all alone

[spring dawn]

You really don't have to be in the center plains. You can find carnos everywhere :)

[hollow canyon]

Having 3 nutrients on Tenonto is the easiest thing in the game, it's literally the animal that has it easiest when it comes to keeping the perfect diet

[wise sparrow]

While I do think that teno should normally be stronger than carno, I do see where aken is coming from and i kinda agree.
It's just teno has nothing to see in wetlands so if you want actual gameplay you have to go to the plains because this roster is objectively flawed

[hollow canyon]

I mean I don't disagree that the diets are an absolute joke, don't get me wrong

I only ever go to the plains if I want to fight Carnos

[wise sparrow]

Imo
1v1 teno wins normally
2v1+ teno uses stun to hold off carnos as it runs to cover

[hollow canyon]

The annoying part is that they can actually pack up into packs of 5-6 that's just... so annoying

You can't fight that and you just have to avoid it

literally kills all the fun in the game for me

[golden coral]

@spring dawnTravel on old shallows, I think you end up pretty much where radish tends to be, and the other way around, you can follow the river for potatoes and then ash at the end/swamp?

[hollow canyon]

That's pretty much my experience

[carmine patrol]

how is that? You use too much stam to stun them and they're stun free for 10 secs after the first stun

[hollow canyon]

Last time I had a 1v3 I died after killing one Carno

[hollow canyon]

They aren't

[spring dawn]

And what of the utah packs and carno packs camping the NW? Am I to ping pong from one side of the river to another to avoid those? While also not getting the radish I traveled for

[hollow canyon]

Idk where you're getting this information from but the stun immunity from Tenonto's CC doesn't last 10 seconds

[carmine patrol]

yes they are, after the first stun you can't stun them again for 10 seconds

[golden coral]

Can't say much for them camping, I've yet to see groups of them do that, but I think that's more of a server issue. I was mostly commenting on the whole "migrating through plains" thing.

[wise sparrow]

Tenos tail in general uses to much stam.
Fucking hell resting will drain your stamina at this rate

[hollow canyon]

That isn't true though, it lasts some 4-5 seconds

[carmine patrol]

I don't think so

[hollow canyon]

I'm pretty much 100% sure it's not 10 seconds on Teno

[carmine patrol]

it's not 5 or less

[hollow canyon]

I'm gonna time it in the next test

[wise sparrow]

Its 10 seconds on pachy
And around 5-4 for teno

[hollow canyon]

^

[carmine patrol]

alr, tbh I can do it rn, just need a volunteer

[wise sparrow]

Pachy literally gets punished for landing an attack

[spring dawn]

There's just a blatant issue when carno can run down anything, ram its prey on the tip the tail, get an easy 3-4 bites on the neck, and once you're up again, you're either dead or you'll be out of stam quite soon.

[hollow canyon]

that's... not how it works though?

[wise sparrow]

There is also the problem that carno is almost a more effective bleeder than utah sometimes

[hollow canyon]

You don't CC stuff when you hit the tip of the tail

[spring dawn]

!!!!

I'm dead

[wise sparrow]

And carno has legacy rex levels of hitboxes

[hollow canyon]

You have outdated information for starters

I have to say - have you fought Carnos this patch?

cause it doesn't sound like you have

[golden coral]

That's .. somewhat true unfortunately :p

[hollow canyon]

or has no one tried to charge you?

[spring dawn]

You've gotta be kidding me dude

[wise sparrow]

Carno doesn't stun on the tip of the tail, but its amazing hitboxes make it sometimes seem that way

[spring dawn]

^

[hollow canyon]

Read.the.patch.notes.

[hollow canyon]

I haven't been CCed by a hit on the tip of my tail a single time as Tenonto

[spring dawn]

Then you are probably the luckiest teno player in the history of teno players.

[carmine patrol]

teno definitely isn't balanced rn

[hollow canyon]

No, I just don't let people charge my base of the tail and my body

[spring dawn]

This patch, I've been charged and as I turn away, the hitbox magically registers my tail as my body

[wise sparrow]

Tbf if your game starts to stutter in a fight it can cause some funky desync

It doesn't happen terribly often, just enough to be a slight problem

[carmine patrol]

1-tailslam cost's way too much stam for the damage it deals
2-kick is a super bad main weapon because of the range

[spring dawn]

Not to mention the hitbox of kick .. yep

[wise sparrow]

Kick has okay range its just the hitbox can be wacky sometimes. Especially in high lag areas

[hollow canyon]

Yea I was just about to say that the constant complains about the hitboxes of the charge and the kick are completely unfounded in my experience so far

[wise sparrow]

So literally anywhere with people

[carmine patrol]

the problem with charge is its crazy manoeuvrability

I can literally make a 90 degree turn and still get hit on the base of the tail/body

[spring dawn]

If there are constant complains about the hitbox and charge then there's probably quite a lot of people experiencing it .................

[fresh laurel]

Pounce dismount momento ayo

[wise sparrow]

I've honestly never had problems with dismount. You can aim where you want to go, and if you dint just hold shift and w when you dismount you can sprint the second you touch the floor

[hollow canyon]

immunity from Teno's stun is something like ~6 seconds long

[rancid bluff]

#balance-feedback message
I'm really late to be replying to this comment in #balance-feedback, but isn't it better that it takes more effort than just turning left/right to escape a carno?
I do agree that carno turns too fast yeah, but it shouldn't turn so bad you just go in one direction and easily dodge it

[fresh laurel]

Ever tried fighting stego?

Also dismount has a weird tiny endlag...

If you time it right you can hit a utah thats dismounting

[wise sparrow]

Just dismount towards its head and do the insta sprint thingy.
You only start running as you hit the ground. If you hold your movement keys while dismounting you will just walk away

[hollow canyon]

The fact that there's a lot of people complaining about it doesn't mean that it's a problem, I've seen videos of Teno kicking next to Carno and people claiming that it should've hit, unless someone posts videos of it happening it's not a thing

[fresh laurel]

Again just time it right to punish utah

[hollow canyon]

and even then - it might have more to do with the latency than hitboxes

[golden coral]

Can't do that right now as stego, dismounting utah locks down the attack. :p

[hollow canyon]

the only one that IS an issue for sure is that Carno bites register from outside of their range

depending on how you place the camera

[wise sparrow]

Literally legacy rex

[hollow canyon]

Not quite, these work kind of the opposite way of legacy(it wasn't just rex, you could do the same with Giga and all the other animals really), you can bite more forward than your head is if you place your camera correctly

Also regarding that last feedback - it's completely wrong, Deino can fight Stego, it just has a poor chances of winning(it's still doable 1v1 though, I've done it once 1v1), Stego also doesn't kill Deino with 4 attacks, it's just all wrong there

[fresh laurel]

Giga double biting in fights witg extended hitbox

[white cove]

@stoic vapor in regards to body camping. can't deino carry any body except deino and stego?

one of which is the problem child, the other of which shouldn't be dying anywhere near said problem child in a deino v deino fight

[ocean wagon]

Not more deinos whining about not being able to no diff everything in sight

What really confuses me is the “why should stegos camp out bodies”

Aren’t 90% of deino kills done in the water

Unless you’re like in the middle of plains(which you have no business being there to begin with) how are stegos camping deino bodies

[wise sparrow]

"NOOO I want to go on land and kill things like a rex@@!!!!???????++!!! "

[ocean wagon]

@stoic vapor I’m genuinely curious

What kind of semi aquatic stegos are you fighting

[ocean wagon]

Cope harder

[eager ledge]

If you give it to much turn speed it no longer is a carno. Carnos are speed demons but lack a lot of maneuverability because there tails are stiff meaning they couldn’t perform sharp turns at there high speeds i Agree completely with this guys comment

[rancid bluff]

yeah I know that, but I still like it taking more skill to escape a carno
don't get me wrong, the turn radius is definitely too good atm, but in U4 it was too bad imo

[ocean wagon]

Give carno cheetah like acceleration, and a shit turn and a dramatic drift

[rancid bluff]

although maybe if they gave it the U4 turn radius with the drift speed it has now, it'd be good

[eager ledge]

There sheer speed alone makes them hard to escape from they don’t need to sharp turning to get you they just have to catch you off guard and come out of no we’re at high speeds and bite you to death

[eager ledge]

A lot of people lack brain cells when playing carno right now so they don’t know this

[rancid bluff]

I think if they reverted just the turn radius and kept everything else carno'd be pretty good
but the dev'd probably nerf the turn radius to be like the damn legacy turn

[eager ledge]

The legacy turn was fine I had no problems it’s just a lot of people now a days are brain dead so they don’t know how to get around that weakness

[rancid bluff]

I can able to get around the turn radius in legacy as well, I just think that the turn radius being that bad was a bit overkill

[eager ledge]

Not really when you were one of the fastest Dino’s in game

[sudden orbit]

Carno in evrima is THE fastest

i dont think galli will even outspeed it

[rancid bluff]

I prefer galli to be slightly slower than a carno
gives the carnos false hope when they start catching up but then the galli turns

[eager ledge]

Now a days people don’t use tactics when playing carno because they don’t need to right now because they have no weakness because of turn rate they need to significantly reduce turn rate so you actually have to use tactics again

[sudden orbit]

tactics? you mean run in and facetank anything that isnt a stego or deino? 8D

[eager ledge]

Ya they lack tactics right now

[rancid bluff]

2 carnos can kill a teno effortlessly by one biting the head and another tail riding it as the teno slams

[golden coral]

@dreamy slate So basically current situation then? :p

[dreamy slate]

wdym, does deino have a good chance with stego rn?

[golden coral]

You can solo a stego as a deino yes given the right circumstances and smarts/skill, and two of them will kill a solo stego unless they mess up somehow.

[hollow canyon]

It's like... it's possible for one Deino to die in that fight and it depends on what Stego does because it can technically just run in land and keep running if there are 2 Deinos on it but it sure as hell isn't winning a fight against 2 Deinos that are competent.

Honestly the most painful nerf to Deino was its sprint speed nerf - it just can't keep up with Stego to take it down and Stego has a relatively much easier time keeping its head away from Deino, which makes it a bad match up for the croc, but you can still technically do certain things that can get you the win.

[stark lion]

Was Deino buffed or something cuz I remember pre this recent patch it got absolutely shat on by Stego, but I haven't attempted to fight a Stego as Deino in the current version

[golden coral]

I don't think it's been buffed, it's just that well, most deino players aren't that good, so they get shat on more than what would be reasonable.

[spare badger]

No, the players just figured out how to use the animal

[stark lion]

Lol I'm sure the playerbase is the reason

[hollow canyon]

It wasn't buffed at all, it's always been like this vs Stego(well since 3.75 technically, it hasn't changed since then).

This ISN'T a good match up for Deino

it's nowhere near as bad as most people make it out to be though

[dusky surge]

i still feel that solo deno should not be winning against stego. At least with stego, utah can pose some level of threat in large, competent packs, but deino has literally no threats outside of itself and will become problematic quickly

[stark lion]

Yeah I agree, but people seem to be saying it's a 50/50 fight for Deino players right now. I don't think Deino should be able to 1v1 stego BUT I think if Deino successfully ambushes one it should have something

[dusky surge]

i guess? i mean, stego should wallop it on land, no doubt

but 50/50 means that two deinos will pretty reliably destroy a stego

i'd be fine with deino doing more against stego if stego wasn't the ONLY other apex

[stark lion]

true

I guess at the moment apex fights shouldn't even be the concern since the plan is to set up a small tier and mid tier ecosystem first iirc

[spare badger]

Deino shouldn't be fighting stego really
Maybe tug of war when that's a thing but stegos damage output should be enough to defeat it 1v1

2 deinos should be able to kill a stego though

[stark lion]

later down the line when there r more dinos, i think if a deino lunges and latches onto stegos head that should be significant

but for now i dont really mind

[hollow canyon]

It's not a 50/50 fight for Deino at all, it's just nowhere near as bad as most people make it out to be - the statements that 5 Deinos get killed by 1 Stego... are absolutely believable but that only happens cause most Deino players are hot garbage at the game

Your chances of winning are seemingly somewhat reliant on whether you can clip through Stego in the correct way, it's doable but in general 1v1 Stego will clap you, 2v1 Deinos take it quite comfortably though

[stark lion]

I know I don't think its 50/50 but the way some people word it make it seem like they think it is

[hollow canyon]

Idk who's said so

I haven't seen anyone claim it's a 50/50 match up

it's a bad match up for Deino, but it's the only bad match up of this animal and even this one is nowhere near as bad as most people make it out to be

I wouldn't mind Deino getting a speed buff on land(back to its old speed of 24km/h) but that's all that it could get

any ideas with fractures and other stuff are just completely absurd on this otherwise already overtuned playable

[sudden orbit]

deino is way too fast on land already, it would only encourage them to land hunt

deino spend too much damn time on land already

[hollow canyon]

They're not really "way too fast", they are about as fast as the fastest irl croc on land(which is much, much smaller than Deino) but they aren't fast compared to most animals anyways

and no, they don't spend too much time on land at all

you literally run out of water in a blink of an eye if you stay on land

[spare badger]

Crocodillians can move quite fast in short bursts
Some can even gallop (although I heavily doubt deino can)

[eager ledge]

No they do not if they do such things they dry up and die they hardly ever go out of the water in evrima because if they do they will dry up very fast and die

[sudden orbit]

good

because given an inch more leeway people will simply play it as a semi aquatic rex

[stark lion]

Please let’s not have PoTs Sarco I hate that thing

[dusky surge]

yea lmao

[turbid shell]

dude this is cute afs first of all, the croc is literally my fav in the entire isle franchise

bro PoTs crocs are so funky gotta love it when they put a totally diff skeleton on an animal like the croc

i paid for some dlc skins for that game but never got into it because of the outcome

[indigo patrol]

Ikr...

[indigo patrol]

I think deino would be too heavy.

[wise sparrow]

This is wrong on so many levels

[hasty coyote]

Oh then you haven’t seen my post either

#general-feedback message

[wise sparrow]

[hollow canyon]

This again... - yes crocodillians can move quite fast in "short bursts". Those "shurt bursts" last a split second and allow them to traverse around half their own bodylength.

The "galloping croc" is the Cuban Crocodile, the aforementioned "fastest crocodile on the planet" and that animal reaches around the same speed as the current Deinosuchus in the game.

[sonic needle]

true you can only survive 10 Minutes outside of the water which is weird because even those giant crocs were basking for Hours

[hasty coyote]

It’s to keep them waterlocked in game, you don’t want random bush crocs in the jungle or plains lol.

[sonic needle]

yeah but its a Croc is should be able to go on land

[eternal musk]

This is assuming the dieno actually was like the crocs/aligators we have today. But I would assume it probally was.

[sonic needle]

Everybody knows that the Crocs nowdays are basicly Dinos because they didnt rly change. Hunting Tactics are still the same, they are still Cold Blooded. The only thing that Changed was the Size but nothing else.

[elder steppe]

Yeah, but allowing crocs to go on land for long periods of time would screw up game play for a lot of people. Its true that they can prolly go a long time without water, but from a gameplay perspective its just not desirable.

[hollow canyon]

I completely disagree, Deino should be more capable of land and FORCED to go on land so that it has some periods of vulnerability, it could then also have a somewhat better match up against Stego

[old hull]

when there are things that can actually threaten them ingame then by all means up their water , but for now its best to discourage them from being out of water

and yeah sure stego can do it but there isnt always a stego everywhere and if the stegos are playing their role they shouldnt be deino police , they got boosh to inhale

[fresh laurel]

maybe just remove cd and make cost 50%

not sure on starting to give things cooldowns ngl

[hollow canyon]

Got the answer to this btw - Magy irl is 1350kg, Nova made it larger on the chart because the one in the game has a more massive neck and tail and he estimated that it could possibly yield some 300kg more, that's where the 1650kg figure comes from.

[spare badger]

I see
So our range is 1350-1650? Makes sense. Thanks for telling me mate :)

[hollow canyon]

It's really hard to say, it depends on whether they scale it by length/height or weight

But yea I'd say that it's probably either of those 2

I'm personally in favour of 1350kg

I also think that since the devs chose this specific sauropod due to its size

it's unlikely to be upsized much if at all

[spare badger]

Yea same
Although I would be fine if they made it a bit bigger
But to fit closer to cerato 1350 is better imo

[fresh laurel]

utah stam feels like it got nerfed during update 4 ngl

[eager ledge]

It did it’s pounce drains slightly faster and it can run for less time because it’s stam drains faster

[fresh laurel]

why would they nerf that?

[eager ledge]

I have know idea if any thing they should have buffed it slightly

[languid tundra]

deinos already got fucking miles of water to hunt from, stop trying to remove the last ounces of freedom of gameplay to the people who find the spots, you got a whole ass river added just for you

[dusky surge]

who are you talking about

[alpine plover]

its online

people make up other people to argue against nowadays

[languid tundra]

you mean me?

[alpine plover]

yeah i mean you

who are you talking about

[languid tundra]

ah, just scroll up to zocker

on the feedback tab

[alpine plover]

??

[languid tundra]

I mean... his comment is right there

thats what I was referring to

[alpine plover]

agrozocker you mean

[languid tundra]

VZPzocker

i assure you im not making up random people just to argue

for whatever reason that was your conclusion LOL

[alpine plover]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that's where it was. Tried checking the channels for zocker in the search tab

[languid tundra]

ya dingus

[alpine plover]

ive been around, too much weird people lately ive been meeting