balance-feedback-discussion

[spare badger]

But we have stego and deino now
No changing that

Maybe cerato would be a good help?

[placid reef]

iirc after troodon cera is next

[dense thunder]

an idea what i had is some Animals take reduced dmg from other animals
like theyr probably palying with a semi--aquatic Cerato
then why not give Cerato resistance to Deino attacks
like Cera only gets half the dmg from a Deinos bite then any other Dino would

[spare badger]

No that's dumb

Why deino specifically
It makes little sense

[dense thunder]

simply cause Cerato ate Crocodiles and have ostioderms on his body and was mostly found in swampy /river areas

wouldnt make sense if Cerato gets even more destroyed by Deino then Carno is right now and Cera is smaller then Carno

[spare badger]

I doubt cera would go anywhere near deino territory

[dense thunder]

thats cause in "reality" Deino and Cera would never have meet
but in a Game where you just randomly throw critters together you have to "balance" stuff so everything would work out

[spare badger]

Where are you getting the idea that cera is a deino killer? It'll kill babies but that's about it

[placid reef]

prob concept art

[spare badger]

As I said
Babies

[placid reef]

ye in there it was prob a juvie

[dense thunder]

if the Cera in the concept is an Adult that Deino isnt a baby

[placid reef]

def not an adult

not a baby but most likley a mid juvi/ halfway to sub

[spare badger]

Juvie whatever point is that deino was half the size of the cerato

[dense thunder]

well you could give Cerato somethign like Jaguars do
they can actually kill Caimans who are bigger then themself

[spare badger]

They won't
That's not ceras niche
It's a sub mid tier bully with a good swim speed

And a scavenger

[placid reef]

the devs said they wont add any bs 1 shot mechanics after a specific size

so like a stego makes sense to 1 shot a utah but not a carno

[spare badger]

It makes sense for stego to one shot a carno wdym
Get a headshot those spikes are long enough to come out the other side

Allos get their vertebrae pulverized by one swing

[dense thunder]

but there is back the balance stuff

[placid reef]

oh i was talking about avg chances, ofc a headshot is a 1 shot but the chance for that is less likely on avg

[spare badger]

Well carno really shouldn't go anywhere near stego

[placid reef]

ye thats utah, at least from the current roster

[dense thunder]

but it does simply cause its the biggest Carnivore right now so its "Apex" until somethign bigger comes along

[placid reef]

no? stego is meant to penalize predictable movement, which is literally carno

[spare badger]

Well currently Utah is stegos predator

[placid reef]

should be

[spare badger]

Carno is not manueverable enough
Allo and Utah yes
Carno no way

[dense thunder]

@spare badger also they could make Cerato like an Honeybadger /hyena
not really big but pretty robust and strong for its size

[spare badger]

That's what they're doing I think

[dense thunder]

so even it would be slower then carno it would still "wreck" it (facetanking wise)

[spare badger]

It should
I never said it shouldnt
Cera should always win

Unless it's a sneak attack

Or the cera is trash

[dense thunder]

yeah but many are agaisnt it cause they are like
if somethign is bigger its deffenetly stronger

[spare badger]

Same with teno

[dense thunder]

meanwhile in Nature this isnt always the case

[placid reef]

cerato is gonna be our dedicated scavanger, able to eat anything even bones, able to bully pseudo mids and lower dinos from their kills etc

[spare badger]

Not bones
That's rex
Cera eats the rotting shit

[placid reef]

that just Legacy mentality which is basically a dying ship in Evrima, just carno and deino mains coping

[placid reef]

well not bones but able to eat a full corpse with no problems, able to get some nutrinets from bones too, like if a fractured dino died it can get somth from that too

[dense thunder]

a few days ? ago there was how they will balance Cerato cause it would get destroyed by Carno cause carno is bigger and so on

[dense thunder]

well Bones would still make sense ,,, if it was a smaller critter
like Cats will also eat Bones of Chickens and rabbits and so one
but with bones from a pig a Cat canßt do much

[spare badger]

I'm talking big bones
It won't eat

[placid reef]

carno is gettign nerfed for one, andthe devs mentioned that they are going away from legacy stats, eahc dino will have its role and gimmick, Evrima wont get Legacy balancing, idk why you are thinking thats the case

[spare badger]

When they say bigger I assume they mean weight giving them more health

[dense thunder]

yeah we are with you on that

but still i can see Cerato eating even the bones of stuff like Dryo ,Utah

would actually be quite cool
if a Body have diffrent bones then so Cerato could eat like ribs and maybe armbones but leaves the bigger ones like leg bones there

[alpine plover]

They're seething at Pachy

Counterplay chads winning rn

[placid reef]

lol

[dense thunder]

im not thinking it
im defenetly in for more balance and such
but many others are a bit over the top

[placid reef]

bigger means heavier, so more health yea

[spare badger]

But I feel like cera will end up with some sort of damage reduction

[placid reef]

iirc it will get venom, poison etc resistance

idk about damage reduction

[dense thunder]

also something thy defenetly should add is that you can "attack" when grabbed by a Deino

i have seen a lot of Aligator and Croc attacks on Animals and the animals dont simply go "ragdoll" and do nothing

[spare badger]

Like how pachy takes less head damage
I think cera will get that to make up for the lack of health

[placid reef]

they will add a struggle mechanic in time, for lunge, punce etc

[dense thunder]

probably and i hope they completly change Ceras running stuff
back in legacy it was so awefull when you got stuck in the "jump" animation over every little pepple

[ocean wagon]

Honey badger cerato is a terrible idea

Like

I’m starting to think people don’t understand how over powered honey badgers are in real life

And applying the same concept to cerato specifically would make it the most broken dinosaur in the game

[placid reef]

cerato sint even meant to be a honey badger, more like hyena

[ocean wagon]

Y E S

Exactly

[dense thunder]

op ? your sure you not just simply belifing the Dokus ?
Honey badgers get killed a lot when you ask rangers who work there

[ocean wagon]

Do you know why honey badgers are able to strug off lion attacks despite them being 1/20th of their size?

[dense thunder]

yes and i also know that a lion who wants to kill a honey badger will simply kill it

the thing is why it works

its cause nature

[placid reef]

intimidation would surprise even the biggest predators

[dense thunder]

animals generally dont want to get hurt so if something fights back many predators will simply let it be

[ocean wagon]

and yes, the reason why a LION can kill it is because it’s able to actively catch it to give it continuous attacks to kill it

Cerato is one of the fast carnivores dinosaurs we have

Utah dilo and carno will most likely be the only carnivores faster than it

[jade mica]

And quetz (just kidding)

[ocean wagon]

Loose skin means that it’s automatically resistant to slash/piercing/venom WHICH so happens to be the things that ALL of the smaller carnivores specialize in

Cerato can out run all of the things that can kill it with brute force and if you give it loose skin like a honey badger, it would body utah dilo and even carno

[placid reef]

also it goes for the next generation...

[ocean wagon]

Cerato will be in the weight range if 970kgs to 1200kgs

Even if we get a 970kg cerato that’s still TWICE the weight of our current Utah

[placid reef]

i wouldnt be surprised if they up it to like 1.4kg ngl but 1.2 is more accuarte

[ocean wagon]

God please no

Not the 1.4

I’d actually cry

[barren oracle]

1.4kg seems cool

[ocean wagon]

N o

It doesn’t

[barren oracle]

Why would it not?

[ocean wagon]

Because cerato isn’t that big of an animal

[barren oracle]

But it would be cool

isnt utah like 800kg irl?

[placid reef]

no

[ocean wagon]

I’m not talking about irl sizes

[placid reef]

around 500

one liberty they got with utah is its speed, fucker wasnt that fast, like rex speed not 50km/h

[barren oracle]

Big cera doesnt die to carno

[ocean wagon]

Cerato in game isn’t big enough to be 1400kgs

Carno is 1800kgs if I remember correctly

[placid reef]

yea, around that on avg

[barren oracle]

carno is chonky and fast

[ocean wagon]

It would still murder a 1400kg cerato

I-

[barren oracle]

would of prefered cera or herra than carno -_-

[ocean wagon]

Do you know big teno is?

In game

[placid reef]

1.6

[barren oracle]

Think its 1.6 tons or something like that

[ocean wagon]

Right

And teno is also a brawler

[placid reef]

so its fairly accurate seeing as it was between 1t to 2t

[ocean wagon]

And loses to carno

The devs are pushing their fight to be a 50/50

[barren oracle]

But teno can jump

[dense thunder]

wasnt there some study who brought up that Cerato could even grow almsot as big as an Allo ? if one found or somethign would be valid ?

[ocean wagon]

Allo?

[barren oracle]

Big cera fun cera

[ocean wagon]

You guys are overestimating the size of cerato

In game and in real life

[barren oracle]

Cera doesnt need to be hyper realistic tho

size it up a bit

Then its cooler

[ocean wagon]

That would be a murder to balance

[barren oracle]

and more fun

[ocean wagon]

Why does cerato need to be upsized

[barren oracle]

To be a chonky bully

[ocean wagon]

It can out run 99% if the things it can kill

It can already bully shit

[barren oracle]

Not here yet so you never know

[ocean wagon]

ITS TWICE THE SIZE OF UTAH AT ITS SMALLEST WEIGHT

W d y m

You making cerato 1400 would literally destroy the balancing of the game even more

[placid reef]

well utah can just run from it with ease in TI context

[barren oracle]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ just was a fun cera

legacy cera was so meh to play

[placid reef]

legacy cera was what utah is now

garbage

[barren oracle]

Utah isnt garbage just needs a working pounce

[ocean wagon]

Cerato is already being pushed as fun to play without the loose skin and weight buff you want

The only thing that can challenge cerato will be carno

[barren oracle]

I want carno to eat human garbage that would be cool

[placid reef]

carno...?

[ocean wagon]

Why would carno eat human garbage

[placid reef]

you mean cera?

[dense thunder]

i think he means CErato

[ocean wagon]

Do you know how big carno is

[barren oracle]

Cera*

[ocean wagon]

Even cerato

Like-

[barren oracle]

Oh no it seems we have a racoon outside

[placid reef]

ngl i'd be pretty funny if mercs just dump their garbage on the sialnd and cera comes and eats there

[barren oracle]

No its a chonky boi here to eat

[dense thunder]

you know how big a Polar bear is ? and even they will scavenge human garbage

[fading moss]

I mean we literally have no idea what ceras role will be aside from "bullying things away from corpses" so we can't say whether or not it'll be fun or not lmao

[ocean wagon]

Cerato is bigger than a polar bear

[placid reef]

scavanger that eats everything with resistance to poison/venom...

[barren oracle]

No one cares tho

[dense thunder]

and so ? you dont get the point

if a Animal smells somethign on its intrest it will go there

[ocean wagon]

Well that’s the problem you don’t care

[barren oracle]

It would be a cool human threat and would put some life into the bases

I can imagine a cera taking down some weak fences to get to some trash

[fading moss]

Cool and do you know how its attacks will play out? Whether it'll focus more into bleed or bite force? Will it be able to fracture an opponents leg? Will it have a parry?
We have no idea about any of these things.

[ocean wagon]

You want to give these random abilities to these random dinosaurs without the slightest critical thought

Cerato could swallow a whole garbage bag

[barren oracle]

troodon should be able to fit in vents too

[barren oracle]

Cera eats whatever tho

[ocean wagon]

The biggest dinosaur that should be dumpster diving would be a troodon

Utah at most

[dense thunder]

and probably would do
you can ask ppl who live in areas with bears
they destroy a whole dumbster for like what ? two licks of peanutbutter haha+

[barren oracle]

Yeah but utah does eat whatever

Cera eating garbage is just cool

maybe troodons can eat food from human desks and stuff

[ocean wagon]

The most you would get out of a garbage bag is a few dozen chicken bones and greasy plates with a dash of paper shreds and dirt

Why do you want it to give a full course meal

Think about what’s in your garbage

[barren oracle]

Why does it have to be a full course meal tho

[dense thunder]

no one wants it it would just be a funny machanic like for juvi ceras or so and as an adult you can cause mayham by destroying the dumbster haha

[barren oracle]

It could be a fun reason to invade human bases and a way to get a bit of food and nutrients without going through some bullshit fight

[ocean wagon]

Point being, for something ceratos size, it’s not worth eating garbage from humans because it simply wouldn’t do anything for them

[barren oracle]

But it would be fucking awesome

[ocean wagon]

That’s like walking into a mine field to get a single chicken tender

[barren oracle]

I mean human bases can be pretty small

4 of them rn are smol enough to be fun to invade

[ocean wagon]

Have you not seen how big the concepts for human structures are??

[barren oracle]

Ive seen port

Not all of em gotta be big

[placid reef]

well not all of them are gonna be that big

[ocean wagon]

Well that’s just proves my point even more then

[dense thunder]

well you could still hunt humans as cerato then

[placid reef]

yet noone said a cera would go to the granddady of human bases just to go trough 1 or 2 dumpsters

[dense thunder]

like scavengign the trash and when some humans show up you get your meal

[ocean wagon]

If the base is big enough to house 6 mercs, the amount of garbage waste would not be enough to give cerato any substantial nutrients

[ocean wagon]

Okay? Any of the carnivores can eat humans?

[alpine plover]

What we bickering about ladies

[ocean wagon]

What was the point of saying “it could eat humans”

[spare badger]

I think if cerato should be able to eat human trash or not?

[barren oracle]

There is one for a single human

[ocean wagon]

Mkay??? You’re making my point even stronger. 1 human will not produce enough waste to give a cerato and nutrients

[dense thunder]

its the your not gettign the point of the "fun"
you could get atttractet as Cerato (cause scavenger) by the smell of the dumbsters
but then revert into hunting the humans themself

you know how bad it can get when bears and boars get attractet by your wast and then you meat them

[placid reef]

bears have an equal chance of running away from you

[ocean wagon]

Cerato is a corpse scavenger

[dense thunder]

so ? still it can get attractet to other stuff

i dont think animals like Bears ,dogs ,seagulls ,foxes ,raccons ,opossums and so one where "human trash scavengers) but all do it
even in most cases they dont find anything eatible at all

in my area you even can see Herons and Stork picking stuff up and eating it

[ocean wagon]

Right, that’s why we have people who take the trash bags from off our yards so we won’t have carnivores coming to the smell of the piles of trash

[ocean wagon]

O m g

[barren oracle]

It would be cool

[ocean wagon]

The reason why those animals can effectively scavenge off of human remains is because they’re small enough to get some type of nutrition gain from breaking into all of your trash bags

Cerato is not compareable to any of the land fauna we have today

[barren oracle]

There doesnt need to be "Omg this is so microrealistic cerato is a big boi he cant eat garbage EKjgmnAIPB"

[dense thunder]

you really are nitpicking you know Humans and Ceratosaurus didnt coexistet ? or Cerato and Carno etc ?

its a Game

[fading moss]

I mean considering a cerato weighs 1T, a cerato would literally be better off going and killing a pachy, or literally anything smaller than it, considering there will be plenty of smalls for it to very easily eat.

[ocean wagon]

No frog it must be fun although it’s conceptually dumb

[barren oracle]

Its a game stfu

[ocean wagon]

[placid reef]

same is utah running at 50km/h, or the rest of the dromeosuars pack hunting but noone really cares for those

[fading moss]

Unless you're literally throwing a shit ton of meat into a trash can, a pure carnivore such as a cerato literally won't give a fuck about this extremely faint smell of meat when it can go and punt a troodon for a snack

[barren oracle]

OMG call of duty has a nail gun that hurts people thats so unrealistic and unfair !

[ocean wagon]

Like I’m not arguing against dumpster diving, I’m arguing cerato is too big to do it

[barren oracle]

But its not

[fading moss]

Its not the factor of just realism its the factor of how absolutely fucking stupid it would be to waste time on making something as big as a cerato go into a dumpster over some chicken bones the size of its teeth

[ocean wagon]

Timber throughout this entire conversation the only points you have made is “it’s fun” and “no it’s not”

[barren oracle]

Do i need more points?

its a game dude

Not like im playing Life but with dinosaurs

[golden coral]

You do need more points yes, otherwise we can add whatever because "it's fun" and "just a game"

[ocean wagon]

Like you haven’t even given us an estimate of how much nutrients a cerato would be getting from eating scrap metal and a few chicken bones

And honestly this conversation is starting to bore me with the lack of points being made

[barren oracle]

Ok so humans live a carefree life and i shall go now

[placid reef]

lets add lazer beams on dinos bc its fun

[fading moss]

Congratulations its a game, so Utah should fucking shoot haduken at carno and hypsi runs around with an ak-47

[ocean wagon]

Add Godzilla because it’s fun

Like???

[placid reef]

I mean... Spino...?

[dense thunder]

in realistic seen cases it probably will still come around to check it out
i mean they made once some test with wild bears and they got attractet by what ? a spoon full of peanutbutter and so one its notthign for a adult grizzly stil lthey will check it out

thats what i meant not like you get a full meal or anythign but you could still interact with the stuff
so the humans have to be warry what they do there otherwise "bigger" stuff shows up then just a troodon or two
and like a Cerato would be more of a pain then like 2 Troodons

[barren oracle]

We have a wizard spino

[fading moss]

Humans are going to be constantly in danger as even low tiers will literally fuck a human up.

[barren oracle]

Just saying

[fading moss]

Troodon is 50kg. That is about 110 pounds.

[golden coral]

Well, I was thinking more so slightly more "reasonable", but yes. That was my point, more or less. I believe just the argument of "it's fun" isn't very valid, or "it's just a game", because well, we can do whatever then. The game do strive to present a certain kind of world where some things fit and others do not. Now I don't know what this current argument is about, I was just responding to that particular sentiment.

[barren oracle]

Wait how many wizard dinos do we have confirmed?

[placid reef]

Each game has its motif, so just saying its a game when the suggestion goes against that motif is bad

[golden coral]

If you mean neuro, the only one we do have is the spino I believe. The others may or may not get as well, since we have a few more hypers at least.

[barren oracle]

Hypers we have rex and giga confirmed right>

[ocean wagon]

I don’t know, but literally all of the carnivorous roster with the one exception of compy will be able to kill a merc

[golden coral]

And those are specific strains and not your average playable, but something you see once in a blue moon or however it goes.

[placid reef]

spino, carno, quetz, raptor

[barren oracle]

Troodons pretty light without the jump its pretty much dead

[golden coral]

Hyper giga, rex, spino, carno, utah. With the first four having proper models and all.

[barren oracle]

Ooh

[ocean wagon]

Troodon is huge compared to a human???

[fading moss]

I just told you that a troodon is 50kg which is about 110 pounds

[placid reef]

quetz

[barren oracle]

Not the one i saw in the gameplay we got

It was pretty smol

[ocean wagon]

My guy

[placid reef]

like up to its knee, and have numbers and venom

and the sickle claw

[ocean wagon]

It’s small compared to utah and carno

But to a human? It’s big

[placid reef]

its small in dino context

[barren oracle]

I mean bullets still gon kill a troodon

[ocean wagon]

DRYO is fucking massive compared to a human

[placid reef]

to human is fairly avg sized really

[dense thunder]

you not even need somethign in this weight class
a Dog can kill a human if it gets bad
so a troodon who have a big ass claw can def kill one

[ocean wagon]

Dryo is the size of a fucking bear

[barren oracle]

dryo is like slightly smaller than a cow right?

[placid reef]

ehh, a bit shorter thna human, like 5.6 at the shoulder (for dryo)

[ocean wagon]

Still a huge animal

[placid reef]

and the human models are all 6ft iirc, so troodon is to its knee or waist iirc

so german shppeard size basically

[barren oracle]

Yeah It looks like human waist Hight

[fading moss]

Yep. Troodons can and will fuck a merc up that isn't properly equpped

[ocean wagon]

That’s like the size of a mountain lion

[placid reef]

ha take this knife... uh. uh ooo

[barren oracle]

So this means troodons cant fit in vents and scare the shit out of people

[placid reef]

it prob will but cant open them

[dense thunder]

the only problem i can see is
Humans will probably non stop mixpack

[ocean wagon]

Well neither can mountain lion but I’d shit myself if I saw one and I’m alone

[placid reef]

so it can do it as long as the base isnt fully repaired

[barren oracle]

It should be able to open vents that would be based

[placid reef]

how would a troodon unscrew the vents?

[ocean wagon]

^

[barren oracle]

I mean its 110 pounds right?

[ocean wagon]

Oh no, not the JP raptors that can open doors

[barren oracle]

It could probably tear it open

[placid reef]

the pronated wrists... noo!!

[barren oracle]

I can probably rip open a vent

[dense thunder]

yeah but if it would bite the vent and pull on it ,,,it would break its teeth cause theyr not meant for such a thing

[barren oracle]

JP raptor was cool af tbf

JP was a perfect movie

the acting in it was amazing

[placid reef]

it was a velociraptor bc deynonichus didnt sound good enough and deynonichus is prooven now to be dog sized

and pronated wrists and no feathers

[barren oracle]

Mid tier carnivores should be able to tear up light fences

[placid reef]

i like Blue as much as the next guy but i cant forget these parts...

[barren oracle]

it would be pretty cool if a cera ripped open a fence

[ocean wagon]

Okay well, ig the dumpster diving convo is gone? And most agree that cerato shouldnt be doing it?

[barren oracle]

Would of been as scary without the feathers tbf

[barren oracle]

I think i suggested it ages ago lemme see if i can find it

[placid reef]

would be cool as a Aprils fools gig

[ocean wagon]

Instead of garbage, they put bombs in the bags and it’s blows up in the ceratos mouth

Amazing

[dense thunder]

yeah but what if you cant actually dimbster dive as Cera but knock it over
but can smell them if theyr "full" or so not to scanvenge from them but it would be bad for the humans ?

[ocean wagon]

Mkay, this will be my last argument about cerato and trash bag interactions

[barren oracle]

Aha i found it!

#general-feedback message

Long type...

[ocean wagon]

Cerato is a corpse scavenger, meaning it can eat the most rancid maggot infested dead body and get some sort of nutrients gain. That’s what makes cerato cool and unique because no other Dino will have such a wide variety of dead bodies to eat. HOWEVER, cerato is not a trash scavenger like your average raccoon. The largest animals that would gets any sort of nutritional gain from eating human trash would be bears and bears are roughly in the same size range as dryo-Utah in game. With that said, bears would need to eat and tear through several trash bags to even make their scavenging worth it. Now cerato sadly is simply too big to get any nutritional gain from going through human trash. Think about what’s inside of human trash. Literal bones, scrap metal, paper, and dirt. A 1200kg animal would not have a reason to eat human trash bags to scavenge a few chicken bones at most. Dumpster diving would fit something that is Utah sized or smaller. This would still give you all the dinosaurs v merc interaction you so desperately want.

[alpine plover]

Lmao

Paleo nerds seething

"Kaiju Spino sitting in the corner"

Good fuck people forget it's a game

Giving me "anky bad" flashbacks

[placid reef]

Him too

[alpine plover]

Don't forget

[placid reef]

and gali, ptera, minmi but its just the wrong name

[alpine plover]

Yeh

Like holy shit, they always pick the weirdest hills to die on

[placid reef]

dromeosaurs are just ruined in TI except austro

[alpine plover]

Austro is still a stork

The feathers save it

[placid reef]

at least the snout is not as big as it body anymore

[alpine plover]

It's serviceable now

But if paleo nerds wanna moan about realism breaks

They have to be consistent

If brawling Cera isn't okay
Then everything else isn't okay

[placid reef]

from any class they could've fucked up it was dromeosaurs, one of the most popular ones lol

[barren oracle]

Nothing is Ok for paleonerds

[alpine plover]

That'd mean
Kaiju Spino should not exist, Beipi, Austro, Utah, Teno, Dilo, Troodon, Herrara, Hypsi should not all exist in their current forms

[placid reef]

Gali too

[alpine plover]

Yup

They should not exist from that standard, and should be more like their "irl" counterparts rather than their fictionalized niches/specialists

[placid reef]

well teno is more on the accurate spectrum so... ehh

[alpine plover]

Teno can't do martial arts like the isle's Teno

[placid reef]

oh yea, fair

[ocean wagon]

Who’s saying brawling cera isn’t okay?

[alpine plover]

The tiring sentiment of people thinking a Cera upsize is a crime

[ocean wagon]

How big should cera be?

[alpine plover]

Enough to realistically brawl what it can't run from

[placid reef]

imo 1.4 seems reasonable

[ocean wagon]

Sooo carno?

[alpine plover]

Yup

[ocean wagon]

So why not make carno 1500kgs?

[alpine plover]

You could do that

But in order to satify that party
Either downsize Carno or upsize Cera

There's no inbetween

[placid reef]

or both but just less

[ocean wagon]

Making carno 1500kgs would fix the current problem of carno being able to out brawl a 1600kg teno, whilst also sticking into the realm of it being conceptually doable for a 1200kg cera out brawling a 1500kg carno

[alpine plover]

Not a bad proposal

[ocean wagon]

However if you make cera 1400kgs that would only fuck up more balance for the smaller dinos like pachy utah dilo etc

[alpine plover]

But if the devs don't downsize it
I know one guy here who thinks it's wrong to downsize Carno
Then we can't be surprised to see a bigger Cera

[placid reef]

this would work well but just i doubt it would go trough with such an idea

[ocean wagon]

thats why I’m opposed to making cera larger. Why not make carno smaller? It’s not like carno can hunt anything bigger than a teno

[alpine plover]

I'm kinda in the same boat, I don't see the devs downsizing it

I'd like to be wrong though

[ocean wagon]

Smaller carno comes with more balance to the ecosystem. Bigger cera is

[alpine plover]

I'm just saying

Very few people are gonna be surprised if we see it

[barren oracle]

Then it cant ram teno

and gets knocked over by teno

and gets shit on by teno in general

[ocean wagon]

“Small game hunter”

Why are you trying to solo a teno as a carno

[barren oracle]

They want them to be rivals

[ocean wagon]

No they don’t

[barren oracle]

also you'd be as useless as utah against teno with that

[barren oracle]

Punch said it like 2 or 3 weeks ago

[ocean wagon]

Teno is the bane of carno

[barren oracle]

Thats dumb

[ocean wagon]

Why is it dumb

[barren oracle]

If anything make carno 1.65

so it can atleast ram over teno

Carno wouldnt be able to do shit with its turn radius nerf

"I'll go for headshots since i cant ram into teno" but teno knows martial arts so carno immediately died

[ocean wagon]

90% of carnos diet will be small nimble creatures. And you think a brawler herbivore that’s rivaling it in size is a good meal

[barren oracle]

Yeah

without a fair fight carno has 0 threats

if they make it an exclusive small game hunter it doesnt have to do shit to get anything

its the fastest dino in the game

it can just outrun its predators

[ocean wagon]

carno already has 0 threats

Because if it’s size and temporary brawling capabilities

[barren oracle]

Next MT patch it has teno to worry about

and it already has to worry about pachy rn

[ocean wagon]

No it doesn’t if a solo pachy breaks your legs as a carno that’s a skill issue

[barren oracle]

Have you played MT test at all?

[ocean wagon]

Yes I’ve killed multiple pachys without getting my legs cracked as a carno

You’re arguing skill issues now

[barren oracle]

Pachy insta breaks legs

makes no sound during rams

and does more damage than a teno

It can sit in a bush and kill a solo carno that is walking by

[ocean wagon]

I’ve been hit by a pachy ram as a carno and my ankles were alright

[barren oracle]

Thats either because the pachy wasnt big enough or you were glitched

a tail shot breaks your legs rn

[ocean wagon]

I dunno man, I’ve seen carnos kill pachys and I myself have killed pachys as carno

*adult pachys

[barren oracle]

If you have the jump its easy as fuck

But you can get crippled and die immediately cause someone is toxic

[ocean wagon]

That’s kinda the point of hunting in ambush. So you can have the advantage

[barren oracle]

More than one pachy tho

hahahah your fucked

[ocean wagon]

If you you walk up to a pachy that sees you I don’t think you should be hunting it

Well don’t go after the group of pachys

If you’re choosing to fight a group of pachys you deserve to get cracked

[barren oracle]

Im sorry ill just accept that pachy insta breaks everythings legs and let the update be

[wild cove]

I mean at the moment an adult carno can solo a single teno without too much difficulty, especially if it rams it. Might not be the case after Carno is nerfed though

[ocean wagon]

Yeah I was implying after the nerf. I think I did state before that carno is out brawling teno due to its size and temporary combat abilities

[wild cove]

Honestly it'll be nice to have Carno actually feeling cautious for once

[alpine plover]

I'd play Carno if I felt danger in encounters

There's hardly any risks around

Unless you're throwing your life away fighting a Stego or Deino

[dusky surge]

well actually, no it doesn't, it requires specific circumstances in order to break a carno leg as pachy

you need to be fully charged and sprinting

[unborn iris]

er.. have you tested that?

[dusky surge]

yes

a standing tap or charged ram will not cut it

and it wont be an instant break

[unborn iris]

I've been breaking legs with single taps. Pretty much every time.

[dusky surge]

depends on size

have you been sprinting before doing so?

[unborn iris]

100% vs 100%

Most of the time, yes

I feel like I've done it without even sprinting though.

[dusky surge]

they might have a pre-damaged leg

i think a sprinting tap MIGHT do enough damage, I'm unsure

[dusky surge]

@raw sparrow Deino has like, over twice the swimspeed of most of the roster

Stego and carno have exceptionally low swimspeeds

[sinful cove]

Carno swims like a rock its pretty well known for that

Tenonto makes sense to have a decent swim speed and doesn’t need a nerf, nobody is swimming too fast atm afaik

[dusky surge]

Teno's swimspeed honestly needs a buff imho

IDK I just think if all its food is going to be near water now, it might as well swim quick

[sinful cove]

Yeah hes got that big ass tail and eats food in wetlands

[dusky surge]

Also yea, giant tail perfect for swimming

[sinful cove]

That tails gotta help at least a bit for speed

Its a tall tail as well, not as rounded as most dinos

[dusky surge]

yea, it looks flat and tall

two great things for aquatic movement

[wise sparrow]

He just wants everything to have no way to avoid deino lmao

[dusky surge]

i think there is an issue with momentum atm

like, you can run as a carno into water and it will carry you through the water quickly

Whereas in reality, you run facefirst into a river, you aren't gliding across, you're smacking against water

[wise sparrow]

Lmao I'm just imagining the sound

[sinful cove]

lol looking at their history they are a deino main… surprising ay

[gusty mason]

@hardy matrix

[hardy matrix]

Nice cant wait thanks for sharing!

[gusty mason]

Np

Here are the other confirmed balance changes that will come @hardy matrix

[sinful cove]

that tenonto footsteps thing must be a bug lol last time i played tenonto i was thumping like crazy when i ran

footsteps randomly cut out on all dinos sometimes for some reason i dont think its a problem on any specific dino

[alpine plover]

It's kinda funny but I can see how that would suck

[sinful cove]

yeah i bet that bug has killed plenty of people

not being able to hear a carno or tenonto barreling towards you

[wise sparrow]

Its frost lmao. Everything he posts Is anti herbi. Probs wasn't paying attention lmao.

I have heard of the bug but I doubt it's what killed him

[sinful cove]

oh shit i idnt even notice it was them

yeah their suggestions are all horrid lmao

[dusky surge]

oh wow yea

that guy

i really never understood the whole anti-herbi thing, do people just not like difficulty in their survival game?

[sinful cove]

they want to fulfill their jurassic park rp fantasy of oneshotting all herbivores and then broadcasting about it

[wise sparrow]

Thay want a reapet of jwe 1 and 2 lmao

[sinful cove]

probably the same people who kill a fresh spawn juvie pachy on the beach as a giga in legacy and broadcast after

[dusky surge]

yea, JWE is cool and all, but watching 3 raptors take down a fucking trike in like a minute is slightly depressing to watch

[wise sparrow]

Still pissed that the "Dynamic hunting" and all we got were 3 Raptors killing a brachi in 5 seconds

[sinful cove]

the raptors oneshotting hadrosaurs

[dusky surge]

man its sad when the Isle is likely going to be the most accurate representation in dino games of actual dynamic dino hunts lmao

[wise sparrow]

They were bragging sooooo much on how hunting was so improved and we got jwe 1 fights with new animations and herbis still being crap after they promised up and down that it would be different

[sinful cove]

its what happens when a game is built and played by heavily biased people who just watch nature docs where they cherrypick all 30% of the predator victories

[wise sparrow]

Also dilo pounce is cursed

Why can the dilos pounce?

[dusky surge]

my guess

[sinful cove]

https://tenor.com/view/sauropod-allosaurus-running-jumping-animal-gif-17282623

[dusky surge]

kinda slightly looks like a raptor

that's it

that's the reason

[wise sparrow]

WTF

[sinful cove]

its a predator so it knows martial arts and defies gravity

my keyboard just dies in the middle of me typing lmao the gif killed it

[dusky surge]

its like they look at the pounce and think "wow that looks cool" and don't actually consider the fact that the only reason raptors were believed to pounce was their GIANT SCRAPING CLAW on their foot

[wise sparrow]

Also indoraptor would fold to like 70% of dinos but noooooo cool edgy raptor hybrid go brrrrrr

Not related to anything I just hate when people say that indoraptor could pull off half the 1v1s they say it can

[sinful cove]

indoraptor doesnt look well built for running either it would starve against all the things small enough to kill

[dusky surge]

but yea, carni bias is super weird and has no place in the Isle where the game is actually balanced around both carnis and herbis being playable

[wise sparrow]

It was built like a stick figure lmao

It literally just looked cool for 5 seconds till someone thought about it and realized that it cant brawl nor chase

[dusky surge]

also who the fuck out here gettin' ambushed by teno

[wise sparrow]

But yea @peak pumice teno is already decently loud for its size do you just want it to be heard from across the map?

[wise sparrow]

Jp fanboys

[sinful cove]

he wants to be able to watch youtube videos on another monitor while afking in a bush and still hear a teno coming

[dusky surge]

teno has a pretty low movespeed, its primarily a brawler after all

[wise sparrow]

Remember hes the same person who said carno should steamroll teno while still being faster than it

"Carno should be able to kill a teno no sweat"

[sinful cove]

hes the guy who wants troodon turned in to sinornithosaurus so he can kill herbis in the forest easier (actual reasoning)

[wise sparrow]

^

[sinful cove]

he also called tenonto a hadrosaur and complained about dying to one as a sub utah

[wise sparrow]

Pffffffft

[sinful cove]

"take away their bleed, and take away mos tof their damage"

[wise sparrow]

Dude my man is just... something else

Also tf is he talking about carnos charge takes priority over tenos slam

[dusky surge]

"And need i explain your pachy? It can literally 1v4 utahs i seen it. nerf literally every aspect of the pachy. make it need more food, less stam, less damage, less speed, make the knockback effect do less it can ragdoll utahs like 20 ft for some reason, and give it like a 3 hour grow time. the pachy's stationary attack should be a bite, and the charge you should need top speed to start it like a carno."

3 hour growtime for small-tier brawler herbi what the fuck

[sinful cove]

i imagine his eyes are flooded with tears each time he comes to the feedback channel after getting whooped by a balanced herbivore because he sucks at picking fights and hunting

[dusky surge]

He's going to fucking LEAVE THE GAME after next patch

[sinful cove]

good riddance lmao

[dusky surge]

Since teno and pachy are getting buffed and carno is getting nerfed

[sinful cove]

probably just a bluff though it usually is when these people say that

unfortunately

[wise sparrow]

He said that or you think?

[dusky surge]

i think

[dusky surge]

?

[sinful cove]

oh thought you were quoting him

now i gotta do myself a disservice and read through the comedy special that is his message history because it's just too tempting

[dusky surge]

seriously tho next patch does some needed service to herbis

although, i still think dryo and hypsi need attention at some point

update 5's nesting better do at least something

to make them worth playing

[wise sparrow]

"the carno could def one hit the pachy with the charge"

[sinful cove]

"can we make the raptor not have the get up time when it misses a pounce?" lol nerf all herbivores to be useless and remove all penalties from fucking up yourself this guy is a balancing genius

[dusky surge]

honestly make him the new QA guy

i give my role to him

he's the thinking man

[wise sparrow]

Next up "buff deinos run speed and stamina I cant chase anything on land" probably lmao

[dusky surge]

next up "add rex to counter stego"

[wise sparrow]

Then he cries when rex isn't a braindead rushdown predator and has to ambush

[dusky surge]

honestly rex may straightup be one of the worst animals if it were added rn

it'd be horrid in plains due to ambush tactics

and everything on the roster can probably outrun/outstam it

[wise sparrow]

I don't think rex should be taking on tanks like trike and shant. That's gigas job rex would go for fights it can end quickly

[dusky surge]

i mean, rex going for trike isn't unrealistic

[wise sparrow]

It is dangerous tho. Very

[dusky surge]

its just irl that trike did in fact fuck it the hell up

and would do so easily

[sinful cove]

Rex should be hunting trike but it should generally rely on ambushing it

[dusky surge]

yea

[wise sparrow]

I just think giga would hog that food source tho

Seeing as it can deal with its higher health better

[sinful cove]

If rex facetanks a trike it should turn in to swiss cheese and the trike should get off with mostly minimal damages

[wise sparrow]

Headshots should damage the attacker

[dusky surge]

rex's primary meals would likely be trike, anky and maybe even gigas. Perhaps throw some stego in there for good measure.

but again, if it fails the ambush, it fails the hunt

[wise sparrow]

Para would also fit the bill. An ambush seals their fate

[sinful cove]

Gigas should be going for sauropods and use the bleedout strategy while rex goes for armored animals and struggles to land fractures on large sauropods like brachi

[dusky surge]

yea id shove para in there too

[thin mantle]

Indeed

[sinful cove]

Gogas going for hadros and sauropods makes sense as well as rexes going for armoured dinos and hadros

[thin mantle]

I'm just happy they actually realized teno has been a piece of garbage since the MT launched

Cuz the buff is more than needed

[wise sparrow]

I am an advocate for hadrosaurs body checks instead of bites and that silly paddle para does

[dusky surge]

issue with stegos is probably going to be the fact that they will absolutely stand in the middle of open plains and actively laugh at any rex that wastes all their stamina running at them

[sinful cove]

Hadros should get back kicks, shoves and shoulder checks

[dusky surge]

i still think the most ridiculous attack for para is the fucking headbutt

[sinful cove]

Para headbutting with its hollow toot horn

[dusky surge]

no one can justify that attack to me

[sinful cove]

Give para a sound attack

[wise sparrow]

Cant paras headbutt only work on apexes?

[dusky surge]

honestly, para having a weaponised 1 call would make it one of the most unique animals in the game

[dusky surge]

think about a para skull then tell me why a headbutt is absurd

[sinful cove]

He can scream so loud it just gives you tinnitus and dazes you

[wise sparrow]

Its hit box is so shit I've seen ceras kill paras on alt turn servers

[sinful cove]

Dilos, utahs and ceras solo paras

Its sad lol

[wise sparrow]

It either wastes half its stam on a stationary paddle or dies lmao

[sinful cove]

Para is just a gigabait victim of an animal

[dusky surge]

the legacy had a problem with rexes, raptors and dilos infesting the world tbh

[wise sparrow]

Allo v para is just... sad

[wise sparrow]

I main dilo just to hunt apexes

[sinful cove]

If it aint raining and a giga sees you and wants you youre 100% dead as a para

If its raining you have 50/50

[wise sparrow]

I love watching them seethe when their big bad apex is actually in danger

[dusky surge]

yea, idk, i just think legacy was a nightmare

apexes were so oppressive and frequent that they lost their value as animals

you didn't go "OH FUCK, A REX", you went, "oh, another rex"

that's why I really hope they ain't kidding about apexes being tough to grow in EVRIMA

[wise sparrow]

I remember back in nycta I was a sucho contesting dilos and I was spam biting to show that I wanted to fight and I instantly got kicked for "improper contest" and came back to dilos wailing on me. Apparently I was supposed to do my loud ass 3 call nowhere near water so some rex could get a free kill. God I love evrimas no rule environment. Sadly those kinds of servers are the only constantly populated servers.

I feel like apexes were so easy to grow cause rules made it so you knew what was gonna happen at all times

[dusky surge]

yea but not only that, it was just a waiting game

you waited for AI to spawn near you and you waited to grow

find some safe nowhere place

and never engage with anything

this is why diets are such a huge deal imho (even if I do think they were added slightly early)

[wise sparrow]

Wave kinda off topic but what do you prefer ambush or rushdown?

Predators

Oh god frost is multiplying!!

The carni bias is spreading...

[dusky surge]

ambush personally. Rushdown is cool but ambushes are TERRIFYING to play against and so satisfying to pull off

[wise sparrow]

Same.

Sucho has a terrifyingly fast ambush and I love it

[dusky surge]

sucho should probs be a brawler once its out in EVRIMA

rather than ambush

[wise sparrow]

@open panther what about pachy is op?

[open panther]

Getting onetapped by one is pretty op

[rain wraith]

must have been a juvie if you got 1 tapped by a pachy?

[wise sparrow]

Other than Utah, who has the mobility to doge pachy, it cant one tap any adult

[placid reef]

what can we do to eradicate this parasite

[barren oracle]

It needs to make sound while charging

unless your paying 100% attention to every bush there is a good chance a pachy will be the death of you

even if your a carno which is 3x its weight

more even

[alpine plover]

Inb4 frost or dooly is hypno's alt

[barren oracle]

seems like a dick move to say that

but ok i guess

[alpine plover]

@opaque yoke players getting debuffs for being around (insert object) is just beasts of bermudas comfort system and even beasts of bermuda players agree its a bad system

[opaque yoke]

A debuff for being around a corpse wasn’t my suggestion, the suggestion was grazing near the corpse would debuff as they only need to graze at that particular spot while guarding

[alpine plover]

okay, then they'll move away for like 2 seconds, graze and come back, wont they? all thats doing is randomly screwing over people who need to graze and theres a corpse nearby

[barren oracle]

Drag body to nest

then its a fuck you for everyone in it

[alpine plover]

lol yeah imagine you defend your nest from a carnivore and no nobody can graze there lol

[opaque yoke]

Grazing takes a while, a carnivore could get a few bites in if they're starving before it comes back

[alpine plover]

ew i used lol more than once in a message thats cringe

[alpine plover]

it really doesnt you get that 20% in like 6 seconds max

[opaque yoke]

Yeah thats fair enough

[opaque yoke]

I don't know how fast it is on stego, but on teno its definitely not that fast

[alpine plover]

putting in an entire debuff system for the sole purpose of someone getting "a few bites" is a waste of time, those people just need to go find another food source

and i mean imagine you're a stego and you kill a carno, and some utahs try to eat it, of course you're not going to want them to they didn't even kill it they don't deserve shit, i dont think body guarding is even that big of a deal in the first place honestly

its the imbalance of the apex tier that makes it an issue, not the action itself

like what the fuck is a carno group supposed to do about it now, at least before in update 2 and 3 they could kill one in a group

meaning it really wasnt a problem, cause the body guarder dies of its own selfish will

[opaque yoke]

This is definitely the issue, but for some reason the devs want stego to be the one true God with no weaknesses, and its just getting old

I don't think it should be soloable or anything, but they should be killable by packs if they don't play smart

[grave veldt]

What’s even worse is how over tuned carno is because in the end stego is strong sure but it can’t move for shit so fighting one isn’t necessary, carno on the other hand is extremely difficult to escape from

[primal dove]

@opaque yoke yea totally agree that stegos are absolute gods rn and it really sucks, utahs were able to kill them in U3 but people kept crying and now we have this godzilla ruling the deathmatch pond (they should remove the pond or at more)

[wise sparrow]

LMFAO i just saw his reasoning as to why it should be that way. He wants herbis to have no safe spots form carnos. thats what hes mad about, the fact that carno has trouble navigating through forests

[dusky surge]

holy shit he wasnt lying

his reason is legit just "herbis hide when i hunt them"

[sinful cove]

all of his suggestions can be boiled down to "i am bad at the game, hold my hand and nerf everything i don't main"

[dusky surge]

the only thing i like about it is he did in fact reference an actual potentially venomous animal

so he did some level of research

[sinful cove]

probably got the sinorn clip form the documentary in his recommended youtube feed and that's the extend of it

[dusky surge]

likely but you know

praise for the little things

but yea, looks like he wants a herra troo mix abomination to punish any herbi that dares think of not dying to a carno

[sinful cove]

plus wasnt sino barely bigger than a compy

[dusky surge]

to be fair, a little gliding venom tree dino sounds sick, but not for the purpose of "punishing herbis"

[sinful cove]

a glidig arboreal could be cool, probably something like changyuraptor would fit better though

[wise sparrow]

Either frost is an elaborate troll or people can be dumber than thought

[dusky surge]

no hes actually like that

[sinful cove]

sadly there are a lot of frosty the icewings in the community

hardcore carni stans who cry whenever something they attack actually defends itself

[slim dragon]

@peak pumice If you were carried as a utah by a ptera, then it was definitely heavier than you. Pteras are already squishy enough they don't need to be pinned down by a baby utah lighter than them.

[sinful cove]

Frosty cometh again to bless us with another “nerf everything I'm not playing” suggestion

[slim dragon]

I missed the sinornithosaurus suggestion :( was it deleted ?

[sinful cove]

#balance-feedback message

[slim dragon]

Oh it's an old one
Thanks anyway

[mental roost]

Ah yes, this little midget.

That a Hypsi could engage in combat with and even potentially win.

The man has to be trolling. There's no way he isn't.

[dusky surge]

i mean

it would still fit in the extra-small tier

and could be interesting

but not as a replacement to troodon

[sinful cove]

Dryo could step on sino accidentally and crush its entire torso

And its limbs

We dont need another random venom dino and changyuraptor is a bit bigger and could be a gliding arboreal extra-small

[dusky surge]

I def like the idea of a glider tbh

ptera does not count

[sinful cove]

Yeah ptera can gain way too much height from takeoff to count

And has shitloads of airtime like idk how people can complain about not having enough stam on that guy, he has insane airtime

[mental roost]

Isn't his airtime technically infinite, as long as you just stay up

[sinful cove]

Well you can basically scale the entire map in one jump if you dont take off from a lowland forest area or something silly like that

By 30% growth on live before he seems to have gotten a buff in qa he already has very manageable stam and good air time

[wise sparrow]

My guy out here probably fresh from legacy and thinks utah should 1v1 anything and insta win

[placid reef]

ye idk why so many just want give random dino X venom bc fun game meh duh...

venom is just a cheap mechanic in dino games as it is

[sinful cove]

Venom is cool until 38472260 dinosaurs have it

Kinda like burrowing

We’ve got 3 animals planned who all use venom offensively we dont need to rush and add more

[placid reef]

at least burrowing makes more sense, im just kinda bored of venom troo and dilo, feels cheap, megalania at least makes more sense

dino is boring, the media wont like it, give it venom yes bc fuck you
feels a bit like this

[dusky surge]

i want to see a defensive venom animal if anything

or a poisonous animal, if you will

[sinful cove]

Dilo and troodon are so mainstream with fictional venom tropes that that went with it lol

[placid reef]

ye at least they tried to make dilo a bit more unique with halucinogeninc venom

[sinful cove]

A defensive venom like platypus have

Plateopus

[dusky surge]

yea, or like poisonous frogs

essentially, poison that scares off predators

[sinful cove]

The frogs are poison right

[placid reef]

it'd be cool if we got random lizards that are poisonous and only some can eat them

[placid reef]

poison unlike venom isnt injected, just by touch, so yea ig

[sinful cove]

It would be cool if some dinos like hypsi could eat poisonous berries and it would saturate their colours and make them toxic

[dusky surge]

poison/defensive venom, i don't really care, I just think it'd be cool regardless rather than once again giving carnivores the sole possession of certain niches and mechanics

[sinful cove]

Yeah poison is injested, venom is injected

[placid reef]

well maggy is that defensive poison, it just has to die

[dusky surge]

the fact that troo and dilo are not only our only confirmed nocturnal reps but are one of the three total dinos with confirmed venom is sad

[sinful cove]

Nah magy just tastes bad

Theyve clarified that it isnt poisonous

[placid reef]

poison doesnt get injected, its just on the surface of the skin or mucus i forgot

[sinful cove]

I mean like you eat poison, venom is injected directly in to the blood

[placid reef]

its like the magma lava thing, same thing esentialy just context

[sinful cove]

You can eat venom without getting any of the affects in many cases

But poison will fuck you up when you eat it

[dusky surge]

exactly

an animal with contact venom/poison for defensive purposes seems sick as

[sinful cove]

Magy doesnt even get it unless theyve changed their mind on that. Magy just doesnt taste good and it shouldn’t exost

I had an outlandish and stupid suggestion a while back for semi aquatic plateo (totally not lurdusaurus inspired) using its large claw defensively and having it inject venom that could push predators to vacate the water because it would mess with their stam (maybe cause stamina drain to also drain oxygen and increase stamina use on abilities)

And i still unironically want it

[dusky surge]

a defensive venom that does massive stam damage sounds great for defensive play

i really like that

[placid reef]

it'd be cool if only the males had it, like platypus do

[dusky surge]

if the predator can't chase you no more, then you get away

[dusky surge]

ehhhhhhh

[sinful cove]

Maybe i shpuld refresh and resuggest my plateopus

[dusky surge]

gender defining balance is uh

lmao

[sinful cove]

Lol nobody would play female then

Poor pleteos would never find a gf

[dusky surge]

the incel dinos

[sinful cove]

Incelopods

[alpine plover]

I would have plateosaurus more as a habitat generalist

seeing as irl it had a bunch of size variation (due to the quantity of food available in different environments), it means the playstyle may vary from individual to individual

smaller plateosaurus are cursorial and rely on running for defense, while larger ones can easily fend off predators with their claws and bulk

I mean plateosaurus could as well pull off a decent speed, seeing as it has sorta allo/cerato length legs in proportion to its body

[strange coyote]

Y'all can preach for whatever dino you want but leave Magy alone. The isle has needed a playable sauropod for years. Even if magy is essentially a horse with a giraffes neck and some weird frilly shit and is one of the smallest sauropods ever discovered, at least maybe they'll be able to do something right with it and make real sauropods in the future without making them ridiculously broken like the pue and camara on legacy. Been waiting years for a playable sauropod and y'all ain't gonna take that from me for a platypusasaurus lol

[sinful cove]

The isle has had camarasaurus for years

[high mesa]

Plateo shifting from a speedster to a brawler with growth? Sign me up

[high mesa]

Pue and cama exist and what the fuck is a platypusasaurus

[dusky surge]

never had a survival sauropod

which is i think the point being made

[sinful cove]

Plateosaurus is a prosauropod and way cooler than magy

[mental roost]

Based

[alpine plover]

Not just with growth, but also diet.

More high quality food -> more growth -> get big -> slapbox/trample things with ease at the expense of speed.

[alpine plover]

It's more or less the reason why those in developed countries may be generally taller than those in developing ones.

[strange coyote]

I mean if you read up like less than a dozen lines you'll see they talk about plateosaurus having platypus venom, hence the joke.

Pue and Cama have never been in a viable state to play in survival. Pue being raid boss strong and Cama being stuck in juvenile form and also obnoxiously strong.

[high mesa]

That's literally what sauropods are lmao

Sauropods are slow, giant beasts that can't be easily brought down by even packs of apex carnivores

They are big, heavy, rigid and extremely powerful

[strange coyote]

Magyarosaurus was literally like 6'6" at the hips and is a sauropod.

Not all saurpods were massive.

[high mesa]

Magy is an extremely rare case, its whole idea is that it's an unconventional sauropod

That's like saying you want playable ostriches and then preach about kiwis

[strange coyote]

Well no. I want magyarosaurus to do well so maybe the devs will add the big sauropods.

Thought I made that point pretty clear

[high mesa]

Why would Magy's viability influence big sauropods?

Big sauropods were implemented very well in Legacy, they are almost indestructible forces of nature

[strange coyote]

Because this game has never had playable sauropods in survival...

They were implemented horribly, are you kidding me?

[high mesa]

So, the animal that is supposed to have a totally different playstyle from sauropods is the one that's gonna make them add big sauropods?

What are you even talking about, big sauropods are confirmed

[strange coyote]

Gotta start small.

[high mesa]

How was it horrible? What do you want from a large sauropod?

[strange coyote]

1 vs Server is okay to you? Are you serious?

[high mesa]

Absolutely

They are walking mountains

Sauropods were almost impossible to kill irl

That's why they have a weak juvi stage

[strange coyote]

Well then we fundamentally disagree.

[high mesa]

Ok then what do you want? Do you want brachi to be a frail creature?

[strange coyote]

Ah yes because invincible and frail are the only options and no middle grounds exist.

[high mesa]

How does Magy even corelate to them? Magy is supposed to be a mid tier, with more than one way of defending itself. Something like Diplo is an apex that only has to fight

[high mesa]

So you want giant sauropods to be... mid tiers?

Pue for example is more than 10 times the size of a Rex. Do you want three Rexes to get together and be able to kill it?

[strange coyote]

Giant sauropods should be the strongest in the game, but they shouldn't be able to be effectively immortal.

Pue can 1 vs 99 rexs/gigas.... that's ridiculous.

Pues were literally hunted by raptors lol.

Megaraptors to be more precise.

[high mesa]

Excuse me, what?

[dusky surge]

Honestly, the only thing I see logically killing sauropods the size of brachi and bronto aren't even our basic animals. I see really only one candidate for that role, and it's hypos lmao

[high mesa]

What the fuck is a megaraptor

[strange coyote]

Larger raptors. Still smaller than a rex though.

Okroraptor being the raptor that hunted pues.

[high mesa]

What kind of source are you getting this from

Orkoraptor isn't even a fucking raptor

[strange coyote]

It's a "megaraptoran"

[short estuary]

Wha's goin on in here

[high mesa]

THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A FUCKING RAPTOR THOSE THINGS ARE MORE CLOSELY RELATED TO GIGANOTOSAURUS

RAPTOR IS JUST A WORD FOR THIEF

[short estuary]

Megaraptorans are either Tyrannosauroids or Neovenatorids

So that is something

[high mesa]

What even is the proof of Orkoraptor eating Pues???

[strange coyote]

I'm just trying to say not to remove Magyarosaurus so that it can do well and we will see larger sauropods one day. And this dudes picking a keyboard duel. I'm done feeding the troll.

[high mesa]

Lions barely ever touch elephants and you want tiny Orkoraptor to touch the living mountain that is Pue

[short estuary]

Don't remove magy

[strange coyote]

Because according to him large sauropods should be able to 1 v 99 and win and that's totally fine.

[short estuary]

although don't make it OP

[high mesa]

Never said that, and that isn't something that happens

[short estuary]

Wait what are we even going on about, pue won't even be in game

[high mesa]

Pue can get killed by even 10 Rexes

[dusky surge]

yea pue aint in lmao

[short estuary]

Largest Sauropod to be in game is Brachi and at only 37 tons it would probably be able to get 3v1ed by gigas

since well... gigas are based for hunting sauropods

[high mesa]

Exactly

[short estuary]

although, a good kick will send a giga flying

[strange coyote]

Don't change your story Ginger just to look good lmao

[high mesa]

What?

I said that large sauropods should be actual forces of nature, makes sense they are hard to kill

[short estuary]

"Pue for example is more than 10 times the size of a Rex. Do you want three Rexes to get together and be able to kill it?"

I think you both are exagerating

to prove your story is better

[strange coyote]

Literally can scroll up and see me ask "1 vs Server is okay to you? Are you serious?" To which you reply "Absolutely. They are walking mountains."

[short estuary]

Pue is 5.5~ times the weight of Tyrannosaurus

But Tyrannosaurus should suck ass at hunting pue

or well

pue shouldn't exist whatsoever

so just

stupid argument for both sides

[high mesa]

I thought that no sane person would think that's true, saw it as a hyperbole

[strange coyote]

Ya ya change your story lol. I'm done here. Peace.

[high mesa]

Pue was 80 tons

Rex is like 7

[short estuary]

Pue was 50 tons

Tyrannosaurus was 9.7

Or... you talking about legacy?

[high mesa]

Yes

Most recent Pue estimate was in 2018 and concluded 80t

[short estuary]

That seems unlikely

[barren oracle]

Nerd stuff

Pue doesn’t need to exist

[high mesa]

https://web.archive.org/web/20060811172844/http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060728-giant-dinosaur.html

Found it

[short estuary]

Puertasaurus was like 28 meters long and 10 - 12 meters tall. So how would they both weigh the same despite Argentinosaurus being 32 meters long and 14 meters tall?

[short estuary]

110 tons?

100 metric tons

are you...

[high mesa]

That's max, which we all know is exageration

[strange coyote]

That articles from 2006, not 2018.

[short estuary]

35 - 40 meters is also way too much

[high mesa]

My bad, I was thinking about Hartman's post

[short estuary]

ginger trust me, pue isn't that large.

[high mesa]

In Legacy it 100% is

Study may be wrong irl but very accurate to Legacy

[short estuary]

legacy pue is 57 meters long and like... 20 meters tall

[high mesa]

So even bigger lol

[strange coyote]

Dalfonius, this is my original statement that somehow caused him to go on this tangent.

[high mesa]

Leaving all that aside we return to the question: how would Magy which in gameplay is more similar to a small hadrosaur corelate to giant sauropods?

Even Brachi which is quite small is extremely different from Magy

[barren oracle]

Doesn’t 🤷

[high mesa]

Also, Cama is far from unkillable. You simply lack skill.

[barren oracle]

Mmmmm

[strange coyote]

Lmao

[barren oracle]

Cama also shouldn’t exist

[strange coyote]

Cama is a permanent juvenile, I don't call that playable.

[short estuary]

Camara is pretty fucked yeah

[strange coyote]

It's just there

[barren oracle]

Same with evrima

[high mesa]

It's meant for sandbox

Without proper growth systems sauropods make no sense

[barren oracle]

Hence why magy is perfect

Magy supremacy

[strange coyote]

As far as balance goes, ya magy ain't gonna teach them much about large sauropods. But that's besides the point. You gonna build a house before you have even built a stool? Lol

[high mesa]

A house uses bricks, cement, pipes, tons of other stuff. A stool is wood

[barren oracle]

Stop using analogies

[dusky surge]

these arguments are so dumb

[barren oracle]

It’s dumb

[dusky surge]

with all due respect

[strange coyote]

Learning from the smaller sauropod about animations and what works and doesn't work will help them in the future when making larger sauropods.

[dusky surge]

these arguments are dumb and have nothing to do with dinosaurs

[high mesa]

Ah so we are talking about animations?

[barren oracle]

They have with stools tho

[strange coyote]

I should've been more clear and said house frame but I thought that was a given lol. Clearly it's not

[high mesa]

In that case... yeah I guess so, but I think that the people who animate dinosaurs for a living would be able to animate sauropods, especially considering the two we already have

[barren oracle]

Stop the analogy’s

[high mesa]

Who makes house frames out of wood we aren't in the middle ages anymore lmao

[placid reef]

umm... you'd be surprised

[high mesa]

I feel like it's an American thing

[barren oracle]

Why are you talking about houses T_T

[slim dragon]

Magy's point balance-wise is to expand the herbivore mid-tier roster which, apart from pachy, maia and ceratopsians, is quite lacking for herbivores.
And also to provide easy food for mid-tier carnivores and juveniles

[barren oracle]

Shut yo stinky ass up magys perfect

[slim dragon]

I didn't say it wasn't

[barren oracle]

You suggested it mildly

[slim dragon]

Perfection comes in many forms

[high mesa]

Perfection comes in magy forms

[slim dragon]

nice

[barren oracle]

Mildly suggested it

[barren oracle]

It even has pun potential

Perfection

[high mesa]

LMAO I LOOKED IT UP AMERICANS MAKE HOUSES OUT OF WOOD

USA NUMBER ONE IN WOLVES HUFFING YOUR HOUSES AWAY

THIS IS HILARIOUS

[barren oracle]

That’s just stupid since they live with termites and shit

Also why are you still talking about the house analogy

[high mesa]

Because he stopped making points against mine

[barren oracle]

But both points where dumb

[high mesa]

How

[barren oracle]

“Learning from the smaller sauropod about animations and what works and doesn't work will help them in the future when making larger sauropods.”

[high mesa]

That wasn't my point

[barren oracle]

“Orkoraptor isn't even a fucking raptor”

Neither of these were remotely relevant let’s be honest

[high mesa]

Well it isn't

[barren oracle]

But thou art does not matter

As thy argument was dumb

And I can’t even find where it started

[high mesa]

Orkoraptor is a megaraptor which is a dubious taxon placed far from raptors

[wise sparrow]

God balance feedback has been a mess lately...

[green sluice]

is grabbing food not working for anyone else?

[sinful cove]

why should hardcore scavengers not be able to take advantage of the whole body? that's theyr job

theyre the cleanup crew

it's animals who are supposed to hunt for the vast majority of their food intake who should be picky

hunting animals should prioritize organ meat which would make scavenging less profitable to hunters

[sinful cove]

i like how the reacts are celebrating this lmao

[vagrant mural]

love that

[frail tide]

q

[grave veldt]

Balance feedback has been an absolute train wreck

[wise sparrow]

Nerf herbi buff carni hold my hand through the game.

[grave veldt]

Yup that’s literally all it’s been

Their the ppl who think legacy is balanced

[graceful walrus]

if they had more ai roaming around in some kind of migration pattern players could blend in but sadly this will not be. carny on carny violence will continue, any herbi they find is gonna be targeted. Not enough food does that.

[thorn heart]

legacy was fine in terms of balance, not great just fine

[dusky surge]

ehhh

debatable

bad dinos weren't just bad

they were horrible

see: cera and pachy

sucho was invalidated by the existence of apexes

plus, you had tailriding

the strat that rendered apexes helpless

[grave veldt]

it wasnt good some dinos were legit invalidated

rex being only dino with bb was pretty bad

[thorn heart]

while I must say tailriding was a plague the game had alt turn so it's atleast something and the invalidated dinos were just 2 so, it's fine to my eyes

[dusky surge]

yea but then you had the issue of the power dinos

shit like maias, diablos, gigas, rexes and gallis just being better than legit everything else

[thorn heart]

that's why I think there should be an apex limit because atleast the other very good dinos aren't murder machines that need to kill everything

maybe dibble but that's only on defensive situations

[dusky surge]

eh

putting arbitrary limits on these things proves you can't balance them

id rather these animals be balanced well then just limited

then it makes people want to play them more

[thorn heart]

I don't truly see it as a way of proving you can't balance, even if all the dinos are balanced there is always a f*ck load of guys that wants to play as the "big bad carnivore" that is almost overpowered

[dusky surge]

plus, how would that interact with nesting

[thorn heart]

good question

I don't know how to answer since you would need to remove one of the 2 things

[dusky surge]

just "oh, that's the apex limit, all apexes are infertile now lmao"

frankly, limits wont work

[thorn heart]

the only thing I want is not to see 40 rexes in every server that's the thing

also I feel like that even if the game will be balanced as I said there will be a lot of guys that want to play as the "big bad carnivore"

so a good part is around preference and not balance to my eyes

[dusky surge]

so implement either
A: Creatures that aren't carbon copies of each other like how legacy did, thus giving a reason to get variety
B: Difficulty to growing apexes so that it isn't a bush sim like legacy

[thorn heart]

B

[dusky surge]

And EVRIMA is planning to do both

so

[thorn heart]

didn't know that, happy that there will be some balance and less rex simulator

it was interesting to have this argument

[grave veldt]

When u rly think about it

All legacy Dino’s were the same thing just different models

[thorn heart]

well-....... the speed, hp and damage were different but true there wasn't really anything that made them different from eachother except dryo and rex

so, true

[grave veldt]

Like In The end they were basically just models with different stats

Glad we have specific dino abilities

[sinful cove]

I mist be the only person who actually enjoys nights rn lmao

[barren oracle]

Yeah your on the weird side

[thorn heart]

legacy or evrima?

[barren oracle]

Both nighttime’s suck unless you’re dilo

[sinful cove]

I thrive at night as ptera while the ground peasants suffer

[grave veldt]

i play pachy as a crack head and its amazing

[grave veldt]

[sinful cove]

Being a juvie already sucks ass why specifically buff a predator against them

Thats handicapping them for no justifiable reason

[grave veldt]

Also Utah isn’t a small game hunter that’s what carno is (supposed to be anyways)

What is Utah

Pack hunter I think

[sinful cove]

Utah is supposed to be small game alone and scale up with pack size afaik

But if you want to attack a juvie while its with its guardians you shouldn’t have some bs juvie specific buff helping you, you should try separating them, baiting friendly fire or move on to different prey.

[grave veldt]

agreed

so glad their changing pachy's turn

[primal dove]

U can do that with stegos and tenos but it´s still absurd how a juvi stego can tank up to 5 hits and won´t bleed out

[placid reef]

with the upcoming patch, endurance oportunistic hunter

[grave veldt]

Oh r they changing it again?

What’s the changes now

[placid reef]

it always was supposed to be endurance and that remains, a bit better stam iirc or smth for it so even more endurance now and better hunger so now oportunistic too

endurance since it has bleed too, it drags out fights as long as it needs

[grave veldt]

Makes sense

Carno changes r so nice tho

[placid reef]

the fact even utahs chance to escape a chase with it were so low is laughable

[grave veldt]

Ikr

And then there’s pachy who is literally doomed if a carno sees it in a field

[placid reef]

i mean, it just needs to fracture it and fuck the hell out of there

but ye, we need fracture tiers

[grave veldt]

Ye def need fracture tiers

Like if u fracture a leg it doesn’t always have to be limping

It could just be slowed down

[placid reef]

pachy shouldnt be faster thna it, maybe equaly agile, since its supposed to run from bigger things by going for the ankles

[grave veldt]

Oh yea pachy

U saw the image right with all the changes

[placid reef]

i just cant wait to see crackhead pachys breaking rex ankles

[grave veldt]

Lol

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/543084446853890049/908515014279827516/20211029_060352.png

[dusky surge]

nah, it won't happen sadly

its headbutt is essentially useless on creatures larger than a carno

[placid reef]

at least i hope they make pachy a forest edge and plain dino

with diets that is

[placid reef]

@quaint merlin so you want a lighter dino to be able to overpower a utah, a heavier dino with claws designed for pinning?

[quaint merlin]

yeah because losing a 70% pachy to a man who won by holding RMB is fun and balanced

[placid reef]

when utahs pounce hasnt been working for 1.4 years... its more of a miracle, also its a heavier dino that evolved to pin stuff...

[alpine plover]

i do think its completely fair that some sort of help towards those slightly smaller animals is needed, you shouldnt be one cycle pounced killed just for being 1kg shorter than something, depending on your weight you should drain their stam faster as you struggle below them

[dusky surge]

ehhhh

[placid reef]

for specific cases of just a few but when i see this idea its usually to the idea of everything that can be pinned by it should be able to escape which is stupid

[dusky surge]

man utah already got its pin nerfed

[placid reef]

would you say not working is a nerf tho...

[dusky surge]

im not talking about bugs

[alpine plover]

i didnt mean that, i dont agree with that part of his post