#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 291 of 1

primal dove
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not sure about the pounce tho

golden coral
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@sudden creekDeino is most likely not meant to take on rex at all, and is on top of that, built to grab and drown "smaller" prey, not fight with equal sized ones. And as far as I know, two deinos can take a stego if they work together, and it's not up on land.

sinful cove
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its funny that people think just because a deino hissed at rex in a preview automatically means they are supposed to fight one

hollow canyon
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One Deino can also kill a Stego, although it depends on how good the Stego player is, but I've seen it done. And no, Deino is not going to be taking on a Rex unless that Rex decides to swim into Deino's jaws.

spare badger
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If a deinos only option against a spino is to "swim away as fast as possible"
What is it going to do to a rex?
I can see it fighting maybe sucho or acro
But not rex like what

hollow canyon
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Sucho however would very likely be food for Deino, Acro might be a decent fight as well

primal dove
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I think it really should be able to drag things which costs more stam

hollow canyon
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I think there should be a general tug-o-war mechanic in the game

lapis inlet
hollow canyon
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which we were supposed to get but I think it created some problems and it was impossible to release it with update 3

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who knows whether we will get it at all or not now

lapis inlet
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deino probably wont take on a rex face to face but deino should be able to grab the legs of bigger prey to drag them in the water, thats like, kinda the point of the deino

golden coral
lapis inlet
golden coral
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Yes? You can grab things up to half your weight

hollow canyon
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Crocs don't really drag things larger than themselves into the water... like it can happen every now and then I guess but most of the time it's not going to go well for the croc.

golden coral
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"smaller" prey then, not critters your own "size/weight"

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What part of my statement is incorrect? So far the deino is not designed to fight with something it's own size, it's main hunting method is geared to deal with compararetly smaller and weaker prey, that it can just grab and drown. Anything it can't do that to, it struggles more with, especially if said thing as in the case of stego and similar, can fight back properly.

lapis inlet
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ur statement isnt wrong cuz ur just proving whats happening in the gameso far, my suggestion was that it should be able to more than just grab smaller prey for snack that gives them only 20% hunger. also, irl, stego weighed about 3 tons and deino weight about 6-7 tons so half the weight mechanic would be in favor for the deino in a stego v deino fight

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unless my sources are wrong*

golden coral
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Ah, yeah that's fair, I think giving deino the ability to grab stuff up to it's own weight if they're swimming would be fine. It's just that you tagged my response to the other person with references to real life crocs, so it got me a bit confused. But as it stands, deino is as I explained, so the deino rex interaction is probably not much to go on.

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And yeah, your numbers are off I think.

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@hollow canyonOi, how big was deino again?

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What I do know is that stego weighed around 7-8T, by latest estimates and all that. And I think deino came in at 11-13T

hollow canyon
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The largest species of Deino was larger than 6-7t

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The biggest estimate for it goes up to 14.5t

golden coral
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But that depends on the deino in question, there's a few of them to choose from :p

hollow canyon
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Stegosaurus is larger than 3t as well

lapis inlet
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yea i dont think in game deino could fight a rex but it was hyped up in that teaser

hollow canyon
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It wasn't hyped up in that teaser, that's merely how you decided to perceive it

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That was a ~10m croc, hissing at a 12m long theropod

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that fight could've gone only one way

lapis inlet
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true

hollow canyon
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Deino in general isn't complete to my understanding

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its lunge is supposed to cause it to go into a tug-o-war with the animal that got hit

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However the devs haven't completed this mechanic for one reason or another

golden coral
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Missing the vertical lunge too so far

hollow canyon
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I remember last year the devs spoke about how the fight between Stego and Deino is going to rely on the two animals pulling one another

lapis inlet
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to sum my suggestion up, maybe deino could grab any dino but the bigger it is the harder it is to move so something like a rex would have to afk or dumb in order to be dragged into water

hollow canyon
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With Deino trying to pull Stegosaurus into the water and Stego trying to pull the Deino out of the water

lapis inlet
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yea, like tug of war kinda

golden coral
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It would be far preferrable with some tug of war or similar system ,but yeah, not sure they can make it work

hollow canyon
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The issue is - the devs haven't been able to implement that mechanic

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Idk if they're going to give it another shot in the future

lapis inlet
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honestly, i think they shoulda held off on the deino until more equal sized prey was available

golden coral
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They should have, same with stego really

lapis inlet
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yea

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i woulda loved if they started off with small dinos and got bigger with each addition

hollow canyon
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They most definitely should've held off with Deinosuchus. This animal just shouldn't have gotten added this early on but it's already in the game and nothing can be done about that.

lapis inlet
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well its good that we found a middle ground with this, now i can go eat some damn meatballs

frosty heron
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A tug of war mechanic will force 2 players to lock them in an animation and sincronize their actions problably

hollow canyon
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I'm aware of that, it will definitely be difficult to implement, unfortunately the current lunge is just all around a toxic mechanic so we need that tug-o-war really badly. I'd argue it's just another reason why Deinosuchus shouldn't have been added this early on.

lapis inlet
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tug o war or at LEAST have a stam lose to draggin bigger prey

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for example, i think a deino should be able to drag a stego into the water but definitly not drown it

sinful cove
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Terrestrials should have their weight values lowered while swimming so deino can grab large dinos while they cross water tbh. Deino shouldnt be able to drag large dinos on land

lapis inlet
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but i still think it would be fair to be able to grab a leg on land or somethin but obviously cost a lot of stam

dusky surge
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I personally wish they considered Suchomimus. It would likely still lose to stego, but could scare the absolute crap out of a carno and would act as a sort of guardian of the water. Honestly, I still want sucho to act as the mid-tier monster to smack down on carno, kill growing deinos, while still not being a blight on the ecosystem because it would still be killable by deino and stego

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Plus since it'd likely be a slower, more territorial animal, it couldn't chase down the roster and fuck 'em up like carno does atm, rather it would give carno a reason to fear certain locations

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And, most importantly, it'd likely live near shallows, which is great because shallows are far too safe atm

lapis inlet
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it could definitely be the first dangerous aquatic to roam in packs

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small packs* lol

hollow canyon
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Sucho is probably the most sensible addition we could get out of all the carnivores.

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As for Baryonyx - idk why you're saying it was bad in the legacy. It was really good due to its absurd speed.

lapis inlet
hollow canyon
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It had more health than a Utah and it mauled Dilo. It was also faster than Dilo.

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its size wasn't close to Sucho at all, it had stats superior to both small carnivores while being around their speed(slightly slower than Utah and faster than Dilo).

lapis inlet
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yea but it shoulda been so much better than fighting just utahs and dilos

hollow canyon
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arguable, it handled mid tiers poorly but then again they were all larger and stronger than it

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Bary isn't a particularly large animal, it's only larger than Cerato(which was oversized in the legacy).

lapis inlet
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minimal weight of a cera was 2.2k pounds and bary was 2.4k pounds so they were very close in size at least irl

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max for cera was 3.3k-4.4k and bary was 3.8k so it should at least be capable to fight a cera 1v1

hollow canyon
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Idk where you're getting these values from

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Ceratosaurus is nowhere near 2t

lapis inlet
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not 2 tons

hollow canyon
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You said 4400 pounds, that's way more than Cerato's weight

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Bary that we have doesn't get to 3800lbs either

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Ceratosaurus weighs 1100 kg, with a partial specimen that's in a private collection potentially weighing 1300kg

lapis inlet
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its an estimate by paleontologists

hollow canyon
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Baryonyx holotype is 1400kg, there is some alleged partial specimen that might weigh 2t but I haven't heard anything specific about it

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Can you show me where you got those estimates by paleontologists?

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I'm not aware of any paleontologist, or any scientist for that matter, that would use pounds as a measure of weight in science.

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Every scientific paper uses metric units

lapis inlet
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it wasnt in pounds, i converted it

hollow canyon
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Fair enough, where did you get them from because those values are still too high?

lapis inlet
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trying to look them up cuz i was looking at this ealier but closed google

hollow canyon
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Alright, nvm I see where you got them from

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"it was 16-20 feet(5-6 meters) in length and 1,000 kg(2,200 lbs) in weight. Isolated fossils however point to much larger animals, perhaps 23-26 feet(7-8 meters) or so in lenth and 1,500-2,000 kg(3,300-4,400 lbs) in weight."

lapis inlet
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do u want the site or the paleon.

hollow canyon
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I'd want the paleontologist, I already found the site, it's the first thing that pops up when you google this stuff

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The thing is - google is not a good source of information for scientific information like this. Especially when it comes to paleontology, it has a tendency to show very inaccurate data like the infamous Titanoboa being capable of moving at a speed of 50 miles per hour.

lapis inlet
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u know.... i might have given u the google info cuz im looking it up and thats exactly what i said but trust me, i had sites to verifiy

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i usually use sites from museums and such but i cant seem to find it atm

hollow canyon
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Well the one that I got after googling it was "theropods.fandom" this isn't exactly a very good source and they don't cite their data.

lapis inlet
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i dont use fandoms or wikis i promise XD

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school taught me better than that

hollow canyon
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We should move this to paleotalk btw

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Wiki is not too bad, you have to know how to use it though, at the very least it uses citations

lapis inlet
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well i think ur right about the cera weight but i can barely find anything for bary

hollow canyon
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This is a fan made series of size charts that more or less show how large those animals are in the game.

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For the animals that aren't in the game they use their largest irl estimates.

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They are made by one of the QA members and he cites his sources there.

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Some data might be debatable but for the most part it's a decent point of reference

lapis inlet
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bruh, i needed this months ago

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thank u

hollow canyon
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You're welcome

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As for Bary itself - I do hope it has a more defined role in the new ecosystem

lapis inlet
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dinosaur stat websites vary so damn much

hollow canyon
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I actually didn't like it in the legacy

lapis inlet
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me neither

hollow canyon
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It was very onedimensional in a way

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And it's an animal that can have a bit more personality given to it for sure

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I do agree that it should be able to contend with the likes of Ceratosaurus

lapis inlet
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agreed, i dont care how they make it, i just want it to clap a carno

hollow canyon
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That might be a bit hard because Carno is quite significantly larger than Bary

lapis inlet
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shit

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ok ok, i meant to say, i dont care what they add, i just want it to clap a carno

hollow canyon
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Sucho is a better animal for clapping Carno and it's closely related

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Sucho is the best addition then

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it's not a particularly oppressive animal, it creates a lot of competition for young Deinosuchus and it can easily show Carno where its place is

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since it's twice larger than Carno

lapis inlet
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i do really want some competition in the water but i still think deino should be the apex its meant to be

hollow canyon
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Sucho isn't a competition to a fully grown Deinosuchus, it's still tiny in comparison

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but it can kill the younger crocs

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Also - I don't think Deino is supposed to be an apex based on what the devs have been saying about it

lapis inlet
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thats what im thinking

hollow canyon
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Spinosaurus is meant to have an upper hand over it in combat

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Then again - we aren't going to have Spino in the game for a long time yet

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so technically Deino is going to be the apex predator in Evrima in the foreseeable future regardless of what they add

lapis inlet
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by the time they add new aquatics, they need to add more rivers and lakes

hollow canyon
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The map has to change overall

lapis inlet
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yea

hollow canyon
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I don't like Spiro at all I'd prefer if they let the new level designer just work on a brand new map.

lapis inlet
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i literally edited the map to show the room deino has to explore, and its saaaaaaaad

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yooooo the quality is so shit lol

wild cove
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technically Deino can do just fine in Arch Falls River, as long as its willing to climb out of croc cave and walk a little

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So this is more accurate

unknown.png
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But you won't find a lot of other players up there. But we're talking about exploration and not player engagement so

dusky surge
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ikr, the waterways are a fucking tragedy

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not only does it massively restrict where the game is played

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but it just makes deinos SO LAME

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and i'd be fine with shallows if they had sucho or literally anything that made shallows a risk but they don't. There needs to be water down the lower further south areas of the map, more than just that new silly pond that also sucks for deino

wild cove
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I'm honestly at a loss for why they didn't just connect new pond to a river

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Unless there's some underground water tunnel we just don't know about but I highly doubt that

dusky surge
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Same

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Also how shallow new pond is, on either side, not like deinos will really want to be there at all

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I find it really unfair how deino is being treated

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Only thing it has going for it is a piss-poor boring-ass diet

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Since all it apparently needs to do is "eat for all 3 nutrients. That's it"

wild cove
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No one really has any reason to go to the rivers anymore now with the new pond

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As much as people talked crap about the old south pond, at least people wanted to go there

dusky surge
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Shallows are still shallow

wild cove
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And had the risk of Deino

dusky surge
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At least new south pond still has risks

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In it being a one-way chokepoint

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But the new south swamp

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Just fucking sucks

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The main reason I'm upset deino isn't in is we can't test how this thing would integrate into the newer rivers

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and based on what i've seen, it's likely not looking good for deino

wild cove
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Yeah idk why they don't just add Deino already at this point

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But

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Obviously not my own map, I just edited it a little with the new pond, but I thought the first time we got previews it was gonna be something like this at the VERY least

unknown.png
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I was pretty excited for that actually until we got to see what it actually was

dusky surge
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i'll be honest, a stream to it would kinda feel lame compared to an underwater passage :P

wild cove
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It would. Honestly I kinda hope they change up center plains with a river connecting pocket to swamp, have it dry sometimes and flooded other times. Make parts of it go "underground" as tunnels that can be used by Deino when its flooded and used by other things when its not

quaint merlin
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shallows (and this new pond now) just drag everyone to center, there are so many cool locations but players refuse to go there because shallows is a safe place to drink

dusky surge
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this is so true and 100% the worst part of the game

raven egret
wild cove
dusky surge
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That too

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The map has great ideas in some locations then in others it's just HORRID

vagrant inlet
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Imagine Stegosaurus players actually having to aim their attacks rather than giving a thagomizer crowd control.
It’s almost as though anybody complaining about stego’s attacks just want that broken bullshit from legacy

golden coral
barren oracle
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Stego shouldn’t be in the current roster nvm get buffed

golden coral
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True, stego shouldn't be in as it stands, but that has nothing to do with if it should be changed/"buffed" or not :p

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Main point is that if you want a critter where your precision matters, stego is not the choice for that. It's the one "AoE" animal we have, and should play as one

wild cove
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Nah it should totally be buffed and precision-based. Just give it laser eyes that can one-shot carnos from 10 miles away TI_Troll

vagrant inlet
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I’m fairly certain that stego being meant to be aoe-based is some random bullshit argument made up by people who want it buffed, and isn’t actually coming from the devs.

I’m pretty sure that the fact this animal got given a precision jab means that this animal is meant to use precision based attacks and actually have to y’know aim, it would be quite odd for the devs to give it such an attack otherwise?
But go on, i’m sure you totally aren’t talking out your ass

golden coral
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Considering it was designed to be AI, I don't know, it seems to me the attack is made primarily for that. In any case, the attacks are badly designed and need a rework, as well as more attacks, since as it stands, it's just no good for being a stego. And sure, no dev has said it, it's just logic for how the animal has worked throughout progression and how it should work. It's like you know, rex having a very strong bite and so on.

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We do know there's at least been a mention of giving full tail control, so the critter is not entirely finished. And it just makes sense, stego is the anti-flanker, so why give it precision based attacks when that's not at all how the animal should play.

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So at the very least, you can absolutely argue for how it should change, from what it is now. Just like how utah has changed from damage to bleed, from less biting and to more pouncing. Current stego does not play very much like a stego, and on top of that, is just not a fun playable fighting wise, compared to teno for example.

barren oracle
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Such a fluently long argument

golden coral
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No way to pressure opponents, no moving attacks, and a terrible quick jab that makes stego vs stego like deino vs deino

barren oracle
golden coral
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Which is rather boring at least in my eyes. And I know deino players don't really like the bite first = win much. So I think it's fair to say it's not much more fun as stego with current attack design.

wild cove
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Honestly there is just no logical reason for Stego to be "jabbing" with its tail other than "because the devs said so"

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It should be swinging and sweeping that tail

golden coral
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They also had a swing attack in the works, speaking of, that just didn't make it in for some reason, so it's not impossible. Aside from that, I want stego to function like it did throughout progression/"legacy" (not that legacy is that balanced what with survival vs sandbox critters these days), meaning AoE, as well as abilities to make fighting more fun and interesting in general than just jab and hope for the best. It's like if rex only got a normal bite, instead of some extra ability like the whole "grab and crunch" that people seem to want.

barren oracle
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Swinging seems like an Anky thing

unborn iris
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Isn't the jab just an animation. It hits everything like a sweep would.

golden coral
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No, anky has a much less flexible tail as it turns out. On top of that, anky has armor, which is it's own thing, and at least the way I see it, it's "abilities" should relate to that.

wild cove
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Its almost like many animals in the animal world use tail swings as defense TI_Think Especially lizards

barren oracle
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Eh I chose bone break tail over realism

wild cove
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Anyway I reiterate: There is no reason Stego should be "jabbing" with that tail

unborn iris
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You can do the 90 degree instant jab animation and still hit everything in that back quarter.

golden coral
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Yeah, the instant jab is stupid :p

wild cove
barren oracle
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Gotta disagree

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It’s note timing than aim

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More*^

wild cove
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Either way it shouldn't be jabbing. It looks completely stupid and unnatural

unborn iris
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I don't play stego enough to really argue this. But the few times it seemed like the reach on any of the jabs is pretty generous. Felt more like a sweep anyways, despite the animation.

barren oracle
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So does the spin role for deino

wild cove
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Except crocs actually death-roll

golden coral
# unborn iris I don't play stego enough to really argue this. But the few times it seemed like...

I think it's more so that there's all these angles, which is weird when stego should just "sweep". Aside from that, I take issue with the quick jab for earlier stated reasons, which I think you could imagine even if you don't play much, as well as the general lack of fun and alternatives in fighting. I'd like to see stego have both fast/"light" sweeps/swings and slower/more powerful "jabs", as well as ability to attack on the move, and possibly sidestep/"hold" attack. Mostly because I feel like stego is rather meh combat-wise, and I think more could be done with it to make it more interesting in general.

wild cove
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Stego really isn't even that great as a defensive dinosaur outside of the fact that it can 1-2 shot most other dinos because its pretty finicky to aim in the first place and hit your mark, especially when you have a fast-moving target like Carno. Half the time I aim and jab and my tail swings the wrong way lmao

dusky surge
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honestly, when bigger shit comes out, if stego remains how it is, it will absolutely eat shit and die to any rex or giga that feels like killing it

golden coral
# dusky surge honestly, when bigger shit comes out, if stego remains how it is, it will absolu...

Well yeah, that's an issue of it's own. But I'm hoping we get a mobility/attack rework, because honestly, it's not a fun playable. Its very.. well, legacy over it in that sense. Just attack and that's it. And the quick jab at least to me seems to have that deino issue where it just comes down to who can spam the attack the best, more or less. So I'm thinking stego needs a rework rather than just buff/nerf, to make it a bit more interesting.

dusky surge
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yea agreed

green sluice
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Rex doesnt even have 100% bone break. so why does carno? and if he doesnt I dont remember ever being charge and not being fractured. just wanted to rant

slim dragon
green sluice
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@slim dragon what about the teno bone breaks? any idea how its being handled? I've seen it but rarely. like it has a low chance of happening but i could be wrong i guess

hollow canyon
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We simply don't know honestly. I've been charged and didn't get bonebroken at times. It's definitely got something to do with weight but we don't know how it works exactly. Devs really have to be clearer in explaining how the whole game works.

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We should also be told the damage values for every attack there is rather than just the bites.

golden coral
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@orchid mauveWell, the only difference would be that carnos are no longer oneshot on head again, and that deino might take another hit or two to kill. Not really going to do all that much.

orchid mauve
golden coral
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If you say so :p

orchid mauve
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I mean cmon, even whole packs of utahs and carnos are afraid of stegos even if its only 1. Two well placed stego hits kill a fully grown carno and a good stego player can easily accomplish that. Theyre especially invincible if theyre near water and just waterhug. Its really no fun.

golden coral
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True enough, stego shouldn't really be in the game as it stands, though it's still not as bad as deino

orchid mauve
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i feel much more comfortable fighting a deino on shallow water than a stego

hollow canyon
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Utahs would be able to take a Stego on in normal circumstances if it wasn't for all the bugs

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The issue is that the water screws Utahs over due to the bugs

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and then you also have the pounce itself being buggy which ends up with Utah getting killed whenever it bugs out and makes Utah drop to the ground or get suspended mid-air.

orchid mauve
hollow canyon
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Yea the animal needs some fixes for sure

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Carno shouldn't be fighting Stegos at all so it's fine that it handles it very poorly

orchid mauve
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I get why it should be strong but 2 shoting a adult carno while having to take like 15+ headbites to die is a bit too stronk. especially when stegos are usually not alone

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@turbid depot Stego mains usually run around the map to bully people, i see it happening everyday

golden coral
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Problem is that stego should not be hunted by carnos at all, the only reaosn they are is because roster is what it is

hollow canyon
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Carno isn't supposed to be hunting animals much larger than itself. Stegosaurus is arguably an apex tier herbivore

golden coral
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Would be better to put stego away for now, it needs reworks anyway

hollow canyon
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It's like with Carno vs Acro or Rex - you just shouldn't be trying to hunt those guys as a Carno

turbid depot
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yeah I agree and I dont know why its in game currently

hollow canyon
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which is designed to go after animals smaller than itself

golden coral
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It's only "good" now cause stats save it, since it finally got a buff from earlier state

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But stego as a playable is a bit meh, deino is better even if it has some issues too to say the least

hollow canyon
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Also - Deino can kill a Stego 1v1 although it does depend on the situation a little bit

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I wouldn't say that Deino is better than Stego as a playable atm

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It can kill it 1v1

turbid depot
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They could at least debuff it til apexes are added or remove it and replace it with pachy

hollow canyon
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but it's difficult and Stego-favoured still

golden coral
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Though I'm somewhat impressed if you managed to be bullied by the slowest thing in the game.. :p

turbid depot
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but thats just my two cents :))

orchid mauve
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pf i doubt even an apex can kill a stego TI_Succ

golden coral
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If you keep an animal debuffed, people get used to it

hollow canyon
golden coral
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And then they will get frustrated when you suddenly change so their playable can no longer touch it

hollow canyon
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Going by the sizes of apexes - Rex has 3k+ hp on Stego, while Giga has 2.3k hp more than Stego

orchid mauve
hollow canyon
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In this game

golden coral
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See how utah got changed from damage to bleeder, nvm the issues with pounce, people also had things to say about it, because it was a new thing, so they had to get used to it

turbid depot
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well then idk what the purpose of stego is currently other than just being a mass murder dino lmao

hollow canyon
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I'm speaking specifically about the game, if Rex has a bite that's as strong as that of Deinosuchus then it will just tear Stego into pieces

golden coral
golden coral
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Since it was meant to be AI

hollow canyon
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Stego has 6k hp, Rex is 9.7t for the largest individual which would translate to 9.7k hp

turbid depot
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😬

hollow canyon
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And yes - Stego was meant to be AI at first

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And btw I expect Rex's damage output to be higher than that of Deinosuchus

orchid mauve
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I just dont like the fact that 5 stegos can kill and entire server

hollow canyon
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They can't really because they shouldn't be able to catch anything

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aside from idk some dumb Deino strolling on land

golden coral
orchid mauve
wise sparrow
#

Is allo gonna hunt stego?

hollow canyon
#

Not on its own, I wouldn't expect it to do so

#

Allo isn't that large either, it's perhaps 3t in weight

#

2 or 3 Allos though is a different story

golden coral
hollow canyon
#

Allo could take 2 hits, a third one would kill it

#

unless one of those two hits is a headshot

wise sparrow
#

Oh yea a headshot from those thagomizers would insta kill anything realistically

hollow canyon
#

You'd still need 2 of those to kill an Allo

#

assuming Allo is at its largest paleoaccurate size ofc

#

which is the legacy Allo size

wise sparrow
#

Oh speaking of size wtf happened to teno?

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto is at its max paleo-size I think

#

it got downsized in update 3 but that's because it was way too big before

#

same with Carno

#

although Carno is slightly "smaller"-ish than it could be

#

but tbh I don't think we need Carno to be bigger

wise sparrow
#

I liked teno at that size. At least when it was a 1v1 with a carno those were fun

golden coral
#

Well, stats and size is not the same thing

hollow canyon
#

Don't get me wrong - Carno got downsized as well

#

it was way too big at the time just like Tenonto

#

and yea their stats did not support their old sizes

spare badger
#

One stego swing should definitely incapacitate an Allo. We have fossils of one stego swing blowing out an allos vertebrae. That Allo survived that's so it shouldn't kill, but one body shot should be enough to deter an Allo

#

Only packs of allos should threaten a stego
Or if the stego isn't adult

sinful cove
#

Once pounce and inertia is fixed up utah packs will pose an actual threat to stegos again too anyway

#

And the water exploit

#

No reason a carno should tank any hits from stego tho like that suggestion seems to want TI_Wheeze

dusky surge
#

stegos having damage reduced sounds like a horrid idea

sinful cove
#

People want all herbis to be fodder

dusky surge
#

accept the fact that your big fast running carnivore isn't meant to kill a fucking stego

#

i dont know if you read the fine print but you're playing something that hunts small game

#

the fact it says a single stego took out 15 adult carnos means that 15 adult carnos really got so cocky they thought they could take on a stego

#

and obviously paid the price

#

not a single one thought it was a bad idea

sinful cove
#

lol looked at their history and they really do have a hard bias against herbis

#

And i dont see how they can call stegos a “mass murder” dino when you can only get killed by it on your own accord

dusky surge
#

it's like calling someone a mass murderer because he has a shotgun and everyone keeps breaking into his house at night

#

maybe stop going to his house

#

with malicious intent

sinful cove
#

15 carnos is no loss to the server too like theres megapacks of that trash all over the place ruining everything

#

So sick of hearing carno broadcast spam anywhere i go on any active server

#

That stego is a hero

#

Even flying along the beach as ptera i couldnt get away from that shit

dusky surge
#

all carno mains think stegos are OP, that's a fact. It's something they can't charge, fracture or effectively kill, so they hate it.

wild cove
dusky surge
#

they cannot fathom the idea of leaving something that hard counters you

sinful cove
#

Carnis think that any herbi they dont effortlessly dumpster is OP and that every carni should hunt every herbi and only herbis should he restricted on what they can fight back against

hollow canyon
#

I'm just going to point out that 15 Carnos should still body a Stego unless they are really, really bad.

#

Idk what they had to be doing to die to it.

wild cove
sinful cove
dusky surge
#

you are literally running an arguably lightweight predator (at least compared to the completed roster) designed to kill small things into something in the sub-apex to apex range, with potentially the highest damage in the game, full stop. You aren't going to come out victorious

hollow canyon
#

Also - the messages in balance feedback have to be longer

#

I've ran out of space and had to cut out large parts of my feedback because I've ran out of characters

sinful cove
#

Its so easy to play them now because they just shatter your bones in one hit a toddler could grow a carno to 100%

dusky surge
wild cove
hollow canyon
#

Idk if I want to add the rest of it in another message, but aside from what I've written there I'd also buff Tenonto's clawswipe

#

The ability is hotgarbage imo

sinful cove
#

Also tenonto tail slam should be punishing braindead carnos again

hollow canyon
#

Way too high of a cost for the pathetic damage it deals

sinful cove
#

It shouldnt need 27392387392 hits to kill a bad carno that ran directly in to its attack

#

Tenonto should be able to cull cocky idiot carnos

#

All the shit carnos give the good carno players i see a bad rep

#

And are just annoying and ruining the experience

alpine plover
#

Carno mains are the new Legacy Rex mains

#

They want everything to be helpless against it, even if it cannot escape them and must fight back

wild cove
#

Pretty much, yeah

#

They want Carno to be C-Rex

alpine plover
#

Cheetah Rex

spare badger
#

Teno killing a carno with like 4 slams was fine before. decrease the Stam needed and increase fracture chance. It should bring teno up to a respectable level

barren oracle
#

@orchid mauve after realising stego is a pseudo apex and their carno isn’t meant to beat it

#

@turbid depot ^

orchid mauve
#

I get that in a 1vs1 you shouldnt have a chance

golden coral
#

A pack of utahs should, under the right circumstances and all. A pack of carnos, in theory, but carnos should not come in packs in the first place so that shouldn't really happen.

orchid mauve
#

we were 4 full grown carnos and were scared of a single stego, in my opinion that shouldnt be the case

golden coral
#

Considering most people would not want carnos above a pair, or maybe a trio.. but four carnos should not stand a chance vs a stego, sorry but no. You're not allos after all

sinful cove
#

Its like saying 4 wolfhounds should beat up a hippo lol

primal dove
#

^

orchid mauve
#

But we need something to counter those damn stegos, how can you have fun in this game when 4 stegos can terrorize the entire server?

primal dove
#

what I really hate about most of this community is that they think if a dinosaur takes longer to grow then it should (in theory) also be stronger

primal dove
#

they are the perfect counter

#

quick and they deal lotta bleed damage so that they don´t have to chomp down that big health pool

orchid mauve
# primal dove buff utah

uh but what what that buff look like? Stego just needs to waterhug and alt swing 1 shot every utah

#

and if there are 2 stegos

primal dove
#

bleed buffs, speed buffs that´s it

orchid mauve
#

Also stegos rarely are alone

primal dove
primal dove
#

I really hate diets

#

made things worse imo

orchid mauve
#

How about we remove this damn dino until we actually have something to counter it

primal dove
#

would be wasted time

golden coral
#

Stegos coming in pairs are fine

sinful cove
orchid mauve
#

because right now like i said 100 times already 4-5 stegos can rule the enitre other 95 ppl

golden coral
#

How? You can walk away from them all the time? :p

primal dove
#

just balance the game in 3 minutes and we´d be good, but no let´s wait 69 bazillion years till they do smth

golden coral
#

Stegos can't rule anything, they're too slow to do shit unless you deliberately put yourself in their way ^^

primal dove
#

and the smalls are shit except carno because of the ram

#

even teno is fucked wtf

sinful cove
#

Complaining about stego is basically walking up to a bee hive, kicking it and saying the bees are a threat to you

orchid mauve
sinful cove
#

Teno in qa can beat up an afk carno, or a carno who'se brain cells are afk

#

But even carnos with the brains of isle AI can kill tenos

primal dove
sinful cove
#

Carnos can basically decide the outcome of the fight by landing their strong attack once. Teno can slam carno with its strong attack multiple times and the carno shrugs it off

primal dove
#

yea

#

and utahs straigh up die using their pounce

#

like the moment u click RMB u die mid-air

sinful cove
#

Utah is broken

primal dove
#

balance-wise?

sinful cove
#

Also the water exploit is still in afaik

#

Yeah utah is broken bad balance-wise

primal dove
#

yea...

golden coral
#

Utah is broken mechanic wise

sinful cove
#

It bounces off of shit like a tennis ball

golden coral
#

Less balance wise, at least until we know how it actually works

#

Which is hard to say cause of said mechanic issues ^^

primal dove
#

ohh true

#

bite inflicts more bleed now

#

so maybe the pounce should do more

#

at least I hope so

wild cove
alpine plover
#

You might even be able to just

#

Trot away

ocean wagon
sinful cove
#

Cant you already pick from the two genders

#

In the selection screen. Dimorphism just isnt really in yet

wild cove
#

You can yeah. And some species actually have some dimorphism already

#

Most are just a difference in color patches though

#

Except Ptera I think

lament ermine
wild cove
#

Yeah. People have been suggesting more of a cone than a pin-point shot for ages but devs have just extended the range on it but still made it pin-point

rapid charm
#

@velvet atlas you can select gender while in the creature choosing menu. Also #isle-discussion is a better place for questions like that

sinful cove
#

Lmaooo legacy feedback asking for giga buff. Comedy

golden coral
#

Why are people so stuck on the health=weight thing. It's not as if that's a requirement for the current balance changes anyway, so what exactly would be the difference if they decided to no longer follow that but keep the values we have anyway? :p

sonic flame
#

The main reason Pachy is carno fodder is because fractures still don't scale and Carno is still overtuned since no balance changes came with this patch

tall trail
sonic flame
#

Arguably that solves an issue with the previous system where if you just brought enough bodies you could dogpile anything and win easily

#

since even 15 Utahraptors still shouldn't be having an easy time against a Stego

golden coral
sonic flame
#

unless they you know, pounce and don't get stabbed

#

in which case they should be able to do it with like, 3 or 4

tall trail
golden coral
sinful cove
tall trail
#

They can’t deal enough damage yet can’t take any damage without being crippled

#

Utahs are the size of grizzly bears they should still be able to do a good amount of damage

golden coral
sonic flame
sonic flame
# golden coral ?!?! :p

I mean if the Stego simply cannot hit the Utahs, then all they need to do is be patient and keep the bleed on, the Stego will drop eventually. If the Utahs play like morons, then yeah they're gonna die

#

Utah, size of a grizzly or not, is still a glass cannon as far as the game is concerned. Of course to avoid utterly melting things like Teno and Carno, its damage can't be too high at once, instead Utah can deal a lot of damage over a long period of time with pounce

harsh lark
#

Fractures isn’t gonna be a magic fix for pachy. The entire issue with these dinos is that the stat gap makes their special mechanics irrelevant. Unless you make pachy insta cripple carno, it doesn’t have enough hp or speed to survive the alt bites carno can mow it down with before being crippled.

sinful cove
#

Carno is way too agile tbh

sonic flame
#

Outside of Utah simply lacking the options to fill that role well due to Carno's overwhlelming agility and power, the animal functions pretty much as I would expect to see it function

harsh lark
#

Bone break or pounce doesn’t mean squat when a single slightly bigger Dino can mindlessly tank an entire horde of your species

sonic flame
#

if Fracture scaled, than a 50% fracture would easily be enough to let Pachy escape

golden coral
sonic flame
#

since all it would need to do is tank say, a single bite, and then it can just leave

sonic flame
#

And again, in terms of Carno, it is overtuned

#

granted it is supposed to be this terror of the small animals that bullies the rest of the roster, but it does that too much and there is very little counterplay

#

so Carno needs to have a nerf gun taken to a few of its stats, and other animals need compensation, like Teno could use some damage back, Pachy is getting screwed by an incomplete mechanic, and Utah is also lacking some tools

hollow canyon
#

Weight=HP should absolutely stay, there's 0 reason why a Utah should have half the hp of a Carno while being a quarter of its size.

sinful cove
#

Yeah old utah hp was disgusting

hollow canyon
#

It just bloated the damage output of every animal and forced both Carno and Utah to deal an absurd amount of damage.

sinful cove
#

Exceptions could be made for animals with thick skin, thick fat and armour but the weight=hp system is fine

hollow canyon
#

Glad that all of that got nerfed.

#

I think that animals with thick skin and thich fat layer/armour should have a completely different mechanic going for themselves rather than just a pure HP increase.

sinful cove
#

Bleed resistance and damage reduction would also work, or having to break armour before dealing damage to covered spots

hollow canyon
#

I'd argue that it should provide a flat damage reduction from attacks that land on the specific areas of the body. And yes that would be a whole separate system from the locational damage, meaning that your damage to e.g. Anky's back would be reduced by a flat number which some animals could override with specific attacks that would be designed to pierce the armour.

sinful cove
#

A raptor pouncing the back of an anky should do jack shit while large animals can fracture the armor for example. But aside that, i dont get the fuss about weight=hp its better than the previous values we have

hollow canyon
#

This would allow certain animals to be better or worse at hunting specific targets.

#

Yea exactly - Utah having little to no armour piercing on its pounce would do nothing to an Anky.

#

Same goes for Allo or Giga

#

Meanwhile a Rex would actually be able to damage the animal without needing to have an absurdly higher base attack damage.

sinful cove
#

Allosaurs realistically would have some level of fracture ability, pretty sure acro did at least in a test

#

But not a reliable amount to have them hunting ankys unless theyre desperate or dont care about dying

hollow canyon
#

Oh, you're talking about that test where they'd created artificial jaws of an Acro?

#

And had it bite a fake sauropelta iirc?

sinful cove
#

Yeah i think that was the one

hollow canyon
#

Yea I mean... the biteforces of those large theropods are just so large that they would munch through most things but I don't think that translates to the game all that well.

sinful cove
#

It would require a lot more for balance reasons obviously but i think itd be fair for them to have minor armour chipping force

hollow canyon
#

I'd rather have a clear distinction where certain dinosaurs are designed more so to hunt specific prey items

sinful cove
#

Something that would still need multiple lucky hits to be effective

hollow canyon
#

And I mean - they wouldn't necessarily deal 0 damage it's just that their attack power would be severely reduced when compared to something like Rex or Stego(which still wouldn't dish out their full damage output but instead have it reduced by a much smaller margin).

#

At least I believe those sort of attacks like Stego's thagomizer or Rex bite should have a much greater armour piercing capabilities than the bites of Allosauroids

#

This is just a very general idea of an additional mechanic though.

#

I think it would allow us to have some additional features that would change combat - different animals could also have different armour piercing values on different attacks.

sinful cove
#

Yeah i meant they should just have minor and generally unreliable damage, as opposed to no damage like a utah or a Herrera or something

hollow canyon
#

So you'd want to utilise different attacks against different targets

#

And yea I think Utah or Herrera would have their damage reduced much more just by the virtue of being smaller.

sinful cove
#

Tbh they shouldnt pierce the back armour of an anky whatsoever

hollow canyon
#

I mean, I don't necessarily disagree

sinful cove
#

If they get lucky enough do death from a thousand cuts on an anky's head or the anky is literally afk for them to do that then good on them but attacking the back should be off-limits as a damage deaing tactic

#

It’s the isle, unless people are heavily discouraged enough from doing something they have no business doing, theyll still do it en masse

hollow canyon
#

I mean, if the damage and bleed are reduced enough then I think it would be fine

#

My point is more so that there should generally be an additional armour mechanic that different attacks would have a different effect on.

ocean wagon
#

Damnnnnn Filipe Really wasn’t lying when he said pachy won’t do anything to carno lmfao

sinful cove
#

Yeah im glad i had 0 expectations for pachy

#

Knew itd be yet another fodder herbi

#

May as well just add cheeseburger stands for carnis

ocean wagon
#

I had 0 expectations when I heard Filipe say pachy won’t be able to fracture a carno leg

#

You’re literally playing a chunky dryo if you go pachy

sinful cove
#

I had 0 expectations after i heard it would have to charge an attack a while back and after seeing its weight and knowing itd be slow

#

And just the history of herbi treatment in this game

ocean wagon
#

Atleast with dryo you’re agile enough to actually weave carno

#

Pachy is almost as bad as carno when it comes to agility TI_LUL

#

Literally meals on wheels

sinful cove
#

The devs sure love carno

#

Crippled every herbi except adult stego and also crippled utah

ocean wagon
#

The pounce has even more bugs

sinful cove
#

May as well have carno as the only playable and make it a supermarket shopping spree simulator

ocean wagon
#

Like sure you can add more dinos to help bring the carno population down

#

But that doesn’t fix the balance issues of carno

sinful cove
#

They wont keep peoples attention due to how trash they are

ocean wagon
#

Literally

sinful cove
#

People will test the new dinos out, realize the devs dont like the new dino as much as carno, and then go back to their scooter rex

ocean wagon
#

Not the scooter Rex lmfao

#

But in all seriousness I’m starting to think the devs barely read these channels

sinful cove
#

Yeah they barely read or they just couldnt care less

ocean wagon
#

I don’t think I’ve ever seen the isle community come together as one on a topic such as nerfing carno

#

And carno received ZERO nerfs

spare badger
#

I wanted pachy to be good :(
Pachy should be able to break carnos leg

sinful cove
#

Well too bad its an herbivore its entire purpose is to serve the mighty carno overlords

ocean wagon
#

Honestly might uninstall the isle

#

The waiting time for updates and the quality of them just aren’t worth the 20 gb of space on my laptop

sinful cove
#

I can still satisfy myself with ptera on live branch but if qa goes live with carno this disgusting and herbis+utah this weak ill probably dip until the devs get off what ever drugs theyre on

#

It isnt even worth playing qa if you aint a carno main. I like to play variety but the variety right now is trash

ocean wagon
#

I’d rather deal with BOB megs as a pachy vs the isle carno as a pachy

ocean wagon
#

Me personally I’ve always enjoyed teno and utah

#

But those two are absolutely dog water

sinful cove
#

Teno was such a good playable and probably the most consistently balanced dino and they ruined it

ocean wagon
#

And I refuse to play carno again because killing things are wayy too easy. A large juvi carno can give a pack of Utah’s a run for their money

sinful cove
#

Yeah when a playable is just so disgusting i cant even bring myself to play it out of spite because the game is pretty much forcing my hand

#

Its sort of like when you were planning to do the dishes but then somebody tells you to and you just dont want to anymore ya know

ocean wagon
#

Yeah pretty much

#

Guess I’ll redownload BOB so I’ll actually be able to crack people’s legs as a pachy

ocean wagon
#

how much does teno weigh? 1600kg, right?

hollow canyon
#

Yes, 1600kg

ocean wagon
#

big yikes for cera then

hollow canyon
#

Yea Cerato at any weight would get knocked down by it

ocean wagon
#

oh i was more so asking for the carno vs cera match up

#

even if we upscale cera to the 1200kg limit, it still gets outclassed

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto knocks down animals up to 1600kg too so take that into consideration

#

And yea, Cerato just isn't a very large animal in general

#

It was called a "small carnivore" on the old roadmap for a reason, it's just not very large.

brittle dirge
sinful cove
#

The whole of qa this round has been wack balance decisions

brittle dirge
#

true

dusky surge
ocean wagon
ocean wagon
dusky surge
#

exactly

ocean wagon
#

but on a side not

#

even if a 1200kg cera will be a brawler

#

i feel like carno would still bully it

#

i was under the impression that cera was a lot heavier

hollow canyon
#

I think a lot of people have a tonne of misconceptions about how large Ceratosaurus actually is

#

There's a reason the devs claimed it to be a "small carnivore"

ocean wagon
#

long live the carno king i guess

hollow canyon
#

Add Sucho and see the king abdicate

ocean wagon
#

w h y did they take sucho out

vagrant mural
#

Too big, but stego got in for some reason

ocean wagon
#

they said it was "too big and nothing could kill it" but then they add stego and deino

ocean wagon
hollow canyon
#

I think Sucho got removed for other reasons tbh

#

It wasn't the size, it was just that it didn't fit with any mechanic

#

Well it fit with fish but the devs preferred Deino and Pteranodon over Sucho

#

for understandable reasons to do with popularity

#
  • the fact that these two playables were sort of trailblazing for other flying and swimming animals
ocean wagon
#

i could see that if sucho keeps it legacy swimming animation

#

where it swims like a snake

#

but that swimming animation was cursed

dusky surge
#

if carno is all speed and no turn, and cera is low speed and incredible turn, as well as possessing a primary ability that allows it to really beat the hell out of anything near it, cera can still threaten carno

#

they simply need to work on carno's agility

#

if a cera can loop around a carno or render it helpless during a brawl (we've seen cera utilise a kind of grab mechanic several times in concept art an animations), it could fuck a carno up

#

imagine a cera grabbing a carno, stripping it of its speed

ocean wagon
#

ya know

#

i lost all faith in the "brawler" bc of how teno is

dusky surge
#

oh wait teno is even worse now in the patch

#

they took away its fracture

#

lmaooo

#

teno was a decent brawler for a time

#

then they for some reason went "well carno cant brawl it" so they made it a better brawler

#

like, yea, it can't

#

that's the point

golden coral
#

But if carno also no longer has fracture, wouldn't that help out, even if teno does not have it. Don't they still knock each other down/stun? And isn't there something about not having that on tail hits at that?

ocean wagon
#

yes technically

#

but teno does jack shit damage to carno

dusky surge
#

imo, carno should be the ONE animal in the goddamn game that can be tailridden to an extent. Because its the only animal that, if there was no standing turn, absolutely could not get tailridden

#

It's too fast

#

IMO, the carno should lose power the moment a foe isn't in front of it

#

Carno is really a forward momentum style dino

ocean wagon
#

it would be interesting if carno had the same maneuvering system as PoT ngl (in terms of moving in place)

golden coral
#

True, teno might need help with damage, but at least it would allow it to run away better?

ocean wagon
golden coral
#

Huh. Stamina that bad so you cant outlast one if you somehow manage to evade?

ocean wagon
#

im not sure what you mean?

golden coral
#

Well since you said jump across a river to lose it

#

While I meant if you can stun/knock the carno down, can you keep it at bay until you outlast it or something?

#

Now that you're at least not totally fractured and incapable of moving at all anymore

ocean wagon
#

the carno would just cross the river and keep following the teno

dusky surge
#

issue is that sprint speed can easily translate to swimming

#

you can basically speedboost across a river as carno

ocean wagon
#

ntm carno has LONG legs so it doesnt really need to swim some parts of the river

dusky surge
#

carno irl would probably fucking drown in water lmao

#

its body literally would not and could not support swimming

ocean wagon
#

since they're going off of JP, me personally i wouldve liked to see the dinos have characteristics of some irl animals as unique abilities.

#

^keep in mind this is coming from someone who doesnt read any of the lore so dont kill me over it

dusky surge
#

i do believe that carno does have the worst time swimming in the game. Even a stego can out-endure it in the water

ocean wagon
#

yeah when carno is actually swimming, it uses the most stam and its the slowest

dusky surge
#

(although a stego does not swim as fast as one)

#

Stego is slower

#

Carno is second slowest

ocean wagon
#

but you can charge into a river and clear half of it so ig that makes up for it

dusky surge
#

that's the prime issue lmao

hollow canyon
dusky surge
#

body type?

#

everything about it

hollow canyon
#

What exactly makes you think that it would drown?

#

We do have a decent idea of how well different dinosaurs were capable of swimming and iirc there was just one group that handled water particularly poorly

#

not sure whether it was the thyreophorans or ceratopsids

dusky surge
#

its lean and muscular. No fat at all on it. This makes it EXTREMELY hard to float at all. Its body lacks hydrodynamics, its shape alone lacks width and is primarily long. It would rely entire on legs and tail to frantically thrash to stay afloat as it lacked any other limbs to assist it.

#

A creature of such a lean and muscular build excels much more on land but would suffer greatly in water

#

Muscles would make it dense, not buoyant, literally its own body would start dragging it down

hollow canyon
#

That's just not true and not how dinosaurs work though, we don't know about any dinosaur that was completely incapable of swimming iirc

#

Idk also why you think that Carno had less fat and more muscle than other theropods

dusky surge
#

I'm not saying it's incapable, I'm saying it'd fucking suck at it

hollow canyon
#

It actually probably wouldn't

#

Its caudofemoral muscles would very likely allow it to swim relatively faster than some other theropods

#

Not that it matters for the game

#

Carno shouldn't swim well

#

but it most certainly wouldn't drown irl based on our current knowledge of theropods

alpine plover
dusky surge
#

even so, it'd likely struggle to even keep itself afloat. I doubt such a creature would be fast in water, faster land creatures have always universally been leaner and more muscular and have little fat.

#

Even if it could swim fast, it would burn a TON of energy trying to do so

hollow canyon
#

I think you have mammals on mind, dinosaurs don't work the same way

#

I don't think we have any evidence of specific species of dinosaurs being particularly more muscular or having more fat

#

Cancel that - not just dinosaurs this really applies to archosaurs in general

#

This is more so paleotalk and I don't think it should be used to balance the game out. Carno shouldn't swim fast for sure in the game, it makes absolutely no sense for it to do so

#

but you shouldn't try to extrapolate what's in game and what makes sense for the game to the real life animals because they just work completely differently with Carno e.g. not being as fast as we make it out to be

#

but instead having an amazing acceleration

#

that + its ability to turn around was actually pretty decent iirc Tyrannosaurs have it beat both in terms of speed and maneuverability but Carno isn't that far behind

#

Actually cancel what I said, I was wrong there - all the theropods could swim to our knowledge, they shouldn't have issues staying afloat, both thyreophorans and ceratopsids however would very likely drown.

#

Sorry for misinforming you above there.

ocean wagon
#

@tropic sinew is it really faster than juvi pachy?????

#

say sike

hollow canyon
#

It is, I'm pretty sure

#

fresh spawn Pachy runs at a speed of 14km/h

tropic sinew
#

Yes it is faster

sinful cove
#

How much do the devs hate pachy and juvie herbivores in general

vagrant mural
#

The small herbivore that relies on speed and fractures to survive when fractures aren’t fully in and it’s stupidly slow

alpine plover
#

Also, I heavily dislike the idea of Carno being able to apply fractures more efficiently than the Pachycephalosaurus. Of course weight matters, but there is a huge difference between animals that meant to ram and cause fractures and something like Carno(which isn't developed to be able to absorb impact dmg that much). As far as I'm aware creatures like Pachy is developed in a way that it can absorb a huge amount impact damage without causing self injury, aka skull fracture/Spine damage. Currently it's kinda like Carno is a jack of all trades and even defeats Pachy in his own domain. There are multiple occasioans when a Goat knocks out a way more heavier animal simply because of the fact I just described. In my opinion if a Pachy and a Carno would go against each other with ramming, Carno should pull the shorter stick for the previous reasons I stated. Its honestly mindbreaking how obviously broken carnos are compared to the rest of the roster.

ocean wagon
#

Carno is a speedster, a bruiser, and a brawler

#

Damn

alpine plover
#

Pretty much

sudden jay
#

@alpine plover wouldn't starvation play a massive part in your solution you gave? I already have the issue as a pachy traveling to my food source let alone making my way to a safe water source area which is already ways away from the pond that the deinos are currently migrating to

sudden jay
#

@solemn shore pachy does not need a buff to stamina at all, speed for juvi? Yes. Turn speed maybe. Growth time? Adjusting the % it takes to reach the 2nd stage would make much more sense, also if the coconuts had better spawn locations and/or spawned more in quantity then growth wouldn't be much of an issue

solemn shore
#

With a perfect diet my friend managed it about 2 hours ago.

sudden jay
solemn shore
#

for me pachy should grow in 2 hours and a few minutes

sudden jay
solemn shore
#

From what I'm seeing it grows at the speed of a stego

sudden jay
solemn shore
#

a Carno grows faster than a pachy today

sudden jay
solemn shore
primal dove
#

@prisma carbon that´s a really really really good and smart idea

sudden jay
#

I can understand stego growth time because health pool and attack potential but pachy shouldn't be forced to be on that same level without the benefits stego has

#

Especially when carno is less and with pachy being apart of their diet

solemn shore
#

Pachy also can't get away from the carno

sudden jay
solemn shore
#

pachy juv can barely run from deino

#

Deino sub is faster than a pachy 50%

sudden jay
#

Carno is the apex predator of evrima on land at the moment with growth time speed and attack potential and pachy is slow as a baby stego for a great deal of time just to reach juvi and before that even happens or if it ever does you have to make your way to your diet food which is where all the apex predators of evrima roam, which is south of center

alpine plover
#

My main problem with pachy is it’s slow turning radius. I get it’s a defensive animal but really? It turns as fast as a 2 ton carno. Makes no sense

sudden jay
#

Its a walking simulator to your death essentially unless you have friends or find a decent pack to carry you

alpine plover
#

it should at least have an average turning speed

solemn shore
#

pachy with perfect diet grows in 2 hours and 40 minutes

sudden jay
# alpine plover it should at least have an average turning speed

I agree, I was juvi pachy which was Hella hard to achieve and I almost died to a baby carno because I was too slow which wasn't the issue considering I'm a herb and this is a carno but the actual issue is turn speed because if it was increased to the point where I can take advantage of the species I picked which was pachy then I should be able to make use of my headbutt as much as possible in the same way a carno makes use of its crazy speed and attacks and utahs with their pounce and maneuverability

solemn shore
#

bruh momment

vagrant mural
alpine plover
#

Defensive pachy becoming a defenseless prey animal because I said so

vagrant mural
#

Defensive pachy<<<<Offensive pachy

alpine plover
#

Please

#

Don’t even have to make it offensive, just make it somewhat viable as a juvie

solemn shore
#

Ok, but the pachy is taking too long time to grow

vagrant mural
#

Over 2 hours for an animal maybe 100 kg larger than Utah is sad

sudden jay
#

The growth time it takes to reach juvi is not as rewarding compared to a carno in that same situation

prisma carbon
# primal dove <@!336605520108453889> that´s a really really really good and smart idea

Modifying the numbers for their own sake is not the only way to upgrade a dinosaur, it would be enough to make a small similar change without touching the damage that you could already see improvements within the clashes. Big prey could be had and strategies would go in two directions: Sustained damage for a bit longer; or massive bleeding damage for riskier fights like with the Stego.
It would then be up to the player to understand and learn over time how to best use this.

sudden jay
#

I understand a carno is a carnivore so you can sort of make sense of it but there's no difference for defense achieving juvi compared to any other species and that doesn't make it rewarding at all

primal dove
#

@barren oracle wait, didn´t the devs say that it´ll break carnos bones?

barren oracle
#

Rn it needs two hits

sudden jay
sinful cove
#

Did ptera get a stam nerf in qa or something? I have 0 issue covering the whole map with it on live

spare badger
#

The fact that this community agrees so unanimously that carno is stupid strong is astounding

And the devs haven't balanced it yet

sinful cove
#

Also wtf a buff for packing? Being in a pack is a buff already lol

spare badger
#

Yea
This ain't ark

#

I've had some well recieved suggestions but this is so sad

How have they not fixed this yet???

Screenshot_20211007-105226.jpg
#

Game balance was decent before

#

If they removed inertia on Utah and fixed pounce the game would be pretty balanced

#

But then they did all of this

#

And pachy is so sluggish

sinful cove
#

They did the equivalent of fixing a dead lightbulb by replacing the whole lamp and screwing that same bulb back in to it

spare badger
#

Yea

sinful cove
#

I knew pachy would be bad these devs have a history with bad herbi balance

#

Sometimes we get a miracle like old tenonto but they got to it in qa

spare badger
#

Teno killing carno in 4 slams was good balance
If a carno wants to kill a teno it has to get an ambush charge

Now it does too much bleed and teno does too little damage

sinful cove
#

Utah is buggy as shit but the herbi nerfs and bad stats are conscious numbers decisions

spare badger
#

They should've added sucho in update 3 imo

#

And kentro over stego too

ocean wagon
#

And poor cerato, it’s being pushed to be a brawler but wtf is it going to brawl

#

If we get 990kg cerato, it might as well start learning how to graze to be an omnivore

#

It won’t be able to brawl teno because teno is a 1600kg brawler itself and I don’t see it brawling carno because carno has a whole 800kg weight difference on it

#

Utah is the only thing it can brawl

#

But like is winning a brawl with a Utah any sort of achievement

dusk torrent
#

buff utah hard i bit carno like 10 times and over 10min he didnt bled out

ocean wagon
#

I don’t think a 450kg animal with small teeth will bleed out a 1700kg carno with just 10 bites

barren oracle
#

its not working

#

controversial

sinful cove
#

utah bite should stay bad because bite spammers deserve to lose, its pounce should just get fixed

ocean wagon
#

^

#

If utah becomes a biter, it would essentially be a sub adult carno

vocal minnow
#

Guys does aynone know the grow time of pachy

barren oracle
green sluice
#

fr why does pachy take so long to grow

barren oracle
#

Cause it’s pretty good

sudden jay
#

honestly utah seems fairly balanced and the only reason it doesn't is because of carno. Same thing applies to other species

barren oracle
#

Hence the conplaints

sudden jay
#

fixing pounce is one thing but actual balance is something different

#

temporarily nerfing carno and putting that into qa would be nice

#

just to see how it fares differently

hollow canyon
sudden jay
#

I'm just gonna say it. I think Carno is to blame for lack of exploration

ocean wagon
#

just another thing

#

all of the carnos complaining about not being able to kill adult stegos

#

sub adult stegos are still small enough for carno packs to easily overwhelm and kill

#

so i dont understand the suggestion of nerf adult stego when stego takes on average 6 hours to grow and they're vulnerable for about 75-80% of it

hollow canyon
#

Carno shouldn't be hunting Stego at all, fullstop, end of discussion.

ocean wagon
#

^^^

hollow canyon
#

It's supposed to hunt... well literally everything else aside from Stego and Deino, its menu is good enough, it doesn't need to have pseudoapexes/apexes on it too.

ocean wagon
#

i can understand snagging a small sub or juvi stego but wanting to kill full grown stegos is dumb

hollow canyon
#

Let Utahs do that

#

Of course this is assuming Utahs get a much needed fix and Stego gets balanced out too(specifically by having its group limit lowered - there's 0 reason why more than 2 Stegos should be allowed to be in a group, given that it's also Deino's group limit).

ocean wagon
#

group limiting imo doesnt really stop them from acting like a group especially for something like stego thats slow moving

hollow canyon
#

I know, but nevertheless. The fact that they are even allowed to have such large groups sets a bad precedent imo.

ocean wagon
#

yeah true

spare badger
#

@surreal mulch that's like a goat winning a headbutt against a rhino
That would make no sense

surreal mulch
spare badger
surreal mulch
spare badger
#

Making pachy able to break a carnos legs or agile enough to avoid it is what needs to happen

Them canceling out is daft
One is much bigger than the other

surreal mulch
spare badger
#

???

surreal mulch
#

Like

#

Either they become more agile and break legs better

#

Or

#

Cancel out the charge

spare badger
#

Cancelling charge won't even help tho

surreal mulch
#

Well atm they aren’t very agile

spare badger
#
  1. It is stupid
  2. Carno can still bite pachy and do way more damage
surreal mulch
#

Can get fractured easily

spare badger
#

There is only one option
Cancelling charge is just daft

surreal mulch
#

So if pachy can at least cancel out the charge it can be saved

spare badger
#

Look at the size difference and tell me it makes any sense for pachy charge to stop carno charge

spare badger
surreal mulch
#

But charging into pure skull should do at least something

spare badger
#

Pachy needs to be able to incapacitate carno and run with enough agility to dodge it

spare badger
surreal mulch
#

Mabye both become fractures?

#

In the head

spare badger
#

Most likely
But cancelling out would look so dumb

surreal mulch
#

Hm

#

Mabye I should change it so they both get head fractures

#

Cuz then pachy has a chance to escape

hollow canyon
#

Carno should get headfractured if it charges and eats Pachy's ram attack head on, Pachy on the other hand should go flying

#

With Carno's reduced vision it should then be able to get away.

surreal mulch
#

Pachy being sent flying would be so buggy

#

I would rather just head fracture to save time

hollow canyon
#

How would it be buggy? It works with every animal so far. Pretty sure it already works with Pachy too

surreal mulch
hollow canyon
#

Nah, that's what I meant by "sends them flying"

#

It was a hyperbole

surreal mulch
#

Oh

#

That also works

#

Ig

twin portal
#

@brave rune - you CAN fly nearly across the map using minimal stamina. You need to utilize flying up to high ground (mountains, rock formations), resting up high, and THEN spending the majority of your flight gliding.

#

I've flown from the north mountain on the map, all the way down to the giant rock formations at Central plains by pretty much gliding the entire way. You can also use u-dives with a bit of stam at the very end of your upwards arc to gain MAJOR height.

#

The devs do not fly efficiently. At all. They're constantly flapping. That is not the best way to fly. 😅

brave rune
# twin portal The devs do not fly efficiently. At all. They're constantly flapping. That is no...

Wouldn't it be nice to start at the coast and fly to the mountain? Realistic to something that flies? It's not about just "falling with style". It's being enjoyable and fun to play. If a game isn't fun, it's not going to be played. In this scenario, most off the players I've played with do not enjoy flyers trapped by this elevation-gliding style. Only playing as ptera because it's faster too grow or they use it to scout.

sinful cove
#

Ptera is extremely easy to travel with and i can have lengthy airtime even early on in its growth. We dont need a literal bird that takes negative iq to play because it is already the easiest thing in the game

#

Dont waste all your stam taking off and dont use that shitty run takeoff and youre fine, ptera doesn’t need to be easier

twin portal
# brave rune Wouldn't it be nice to start at the coast and fly to the mountain? Realistic to ...

Miragaia is correct - the standing takeoff is the more stamina-efficient method.

The vast majority of real-world animal flight is "falling with style". Most birds spend the majority of their flight gliding, especially sea-birds, which Ptera is the closest to in build. The current difference is that Evrima does not yet have updrafts or aircurrents for flyers to make any use of. If you watch sea birds fly, they barely ever flap their wings. And these birds can still do dives and other acrobatics without the use of constantly flapping their wings.

Juvies are bad at flying because they're juvies - but they're still easy to fly with. Get off the ground, and glide. Practice gliding through the trees, practice your dives, glide towards higher ground and crawl your way up. It is REALLY not hard at all. Ptera is the easiest gameplay so far, it does not need to be any easier just because you can't learn how to fly skillfully.

#

It's sad to me how many players don't know how to fly efficiently.... including the devs. 😂

sinful cove
#

i was playing with somebody as ptera who had previously been having a lot of trouble with their stam but they learned and we were killing dryos and baby deinos with no problem and had very long airtime. a lot of people dont seem to know how to manage their stam as ptera, they are playing it wrong, and people using an animal wrong shouldn't be a reason to buff it. I have 0 issue hunting smalls, fishing, traveling and circling to watch fights from the air, and there are tons of safe places to land when you do get low on stam

dusky surge
#

@turbid depot "I main carno and it's become so strong that it's boring, nerf it please."

gigachad.png
turbid depot
#

basically

#

LMAO

dusky surge
#

The best kind of carno main

#

Rather than the guys denying their animal is fucking broken

#

I agree, I played carno and it was so dull

turbid depot
#

Yeah its too easy tbh. The only way you die is accidentally running off a cliff or getting stuck and starving to death

dusky surge
#

Deino and carno are, imo, the two most boring dinos in the stress test. Both because they are easy as all hell. Deino grows in weight so fast and is the only creature to outright ignore diets, and carno is far too easy to the point of boredom

#

I prefer animals that actually make me fear for my life

#

Against specific threats

turbid depot
#

yeahh like I know its supposed to be the strongest land carni currently but

dusky surge
#

Carnos only really fear stegos, and even then, carno mains keep asking for stego nerfs so that their small game hunter can kill a 6 ton animal. Also you can just not fight the stego lmao.

turbid depot
#

yeah idk why the stego is in game currently its so boring like nothing can kill you

golden coral
#

"fear" stegos :p

#

Not sure how much fear there is when you can avoid the threat entirely

turbid depot
#

yeah exactly lmao

dusky surge
#

I'd say deino is another of carno's big threats, but again, that requires you to go to it

#

Deino is arguably carno's biggest predator in EVRIMA

turbid depot
#

even if a deino grabs a carno, another carno can just bite deino and itll let go

#

unless they fixed that lmao

golden coral
#

I don't think that was ever a thing?

turbid depot
#

i dont usually tango with deinos as a carno

golden coral
#

Was this on QA only?

turbid depot
#

idk it happend more than three times to me so I assumed it was a bug

#

i dont remember it was a couple weeks back so Im guessing main build lmao

golden coral
#

I know there's QA issues that causes you to let to of the prey for some reason, though I'm not sure if that's related to taking damage or not.

hollow canyon
# turbid depot even if a deino grabs a carno, another carno can just bite deino and itll let go

There's literally 0 reason for Deino to let a Carno go if it hit it witht he lunge. Carnos just tickle a Deino at this point. Hell, I've had some fights against 3+ Carnos as a not even fully grown Deino in early update 3 where Deino had less health and Carno didn't yet have its damage nerfed and I just dragged Carno into water and drowned it whenever I caught it(admittedly gj to the dude that allowed a Deino to grab him on land, that's just next level of skill).

#

I'd agree that Deino is one of the better things to kill Carnos with... in theory - in practice Deino is an environmental hazard comparable with things such as getting stuck in a hole or glitching out and falling through the map.

#

As for Carno being too strong - I kind of think it's all the other animals that are too weak. Everything aside from Stego and Deino got hit with a nerf hammer between update 3.5 and now and to be fair - all those animals required those nerfs but some of them just need some compensation buffs like Tenonto - having its damage reduced is a fine-ish thing but it needs to have lower stamina costs on its attacks otherwise it's just really bad.

#

Utah's Utah - it's just bugged to all hell and it's impossible to say anything concrete about this animal considering that its main offensive tool works only like half the time on the mechanic test.

hot owl
#

A big part of it is that it's just a bit too early for Carno imo. The fastest terrestrial carnivore planned to be in the game, If I'm not mistaken that is, is currently the big bad of the game. I'm sure it's been said plenty but I just really feel like it was a misstep to add it in this early.

wild cove
# golden coral I don't think that was ever a thing?

No that's definitely been a thing. I've been saved so many times by other people biting a Deino that grabbed me, usually as a utah or something small. Once even as a hypsi that got pulled down by a small deino lol

#

Since it wasn't big enough apparently to just insta-kill me, amazingly

golden coral
hollow canyon
#

They definitely did just that, I've never released a thing I was holding because someone started biting me

barren oracle
#

@turbid depot is just a better player

hollow canyon
#

...or those Deinos are just bad and start panicking when a Carno starts tickling them for 1/40th of their max health.

golden coral
barren oracle
brittle dirge
# hollow canyon As for Carno being too strong - I kind of think it's all the other animals that ...

I disagree about them "requiring" those nerfs they got but I do agree that they should've gotten something to compensate for them. that's just how balancing should be handled, however, Carno being broken is mostly due to it's charge giving so much with little downsides. Carno already has the luxury of choosing it's fights but the fact it can fracture anything that isn't a Stego or Deino on it's own (to my knowledge) thus making whatever it decides to fight that much more helpless is genuinely absurd. add that with the fact that Pachy and Teno have no means of deterring or even escaping from a Carno (or god forbid a pack on them) just makes them unviable animals. Teno should be the largest thing a Carno can hunt but the odds should be in the Teno's favor imho which is how it was in 3.5. a Pachy should absolutely be able to break a Carno's legs that way it has the chance to escape and so that a Carno would have to actually think about it's positioning when trying to hunt a Pachy

#

but the most important thing is that Carno shouldn't even be able to fracture anything cause that's the core issue here

golden coral
brittle dirge
hollow canyon
#

@brittle dirgeCarno doesn't fracture anything anymore. They've removed the fracture from its charge.

brittle dirge
#

that's good

hollow canyon
#

As for Tenonto vs Carno - I don't think it should be heavily in favour of Tenonto, it should be somewhat in its favour but not too much - around 60:40 in an open fight. It does imo need a buff in terms of its stamina cost and perhaps damage to a certain extent but it most certainly shouldn't be going back up to its old damage values.

#

Tenonto in 3.75 was absolutely unaccpetable

#

and it just wasn't going to last

#

The goddamn thing had an attack dealing 360 damage

#

It was a given that it was going to get hit with a nerf

brittle dirge
#

I just seen someone mention that Pachy can fracture Carno so guess my complaints there is outdated lmao

hollow canyon
#

Yea Pachy is the only one that fractures stuff now

#

it can also fracture Carno seemingly rather easily

#

you just need to hit one ram on it and its legs break

brittle dirge
#

good TI_DiloSip

hollow canyon
#

I still think that Pachy should get some at least QoL buffs though

#

Its speed as a juvenile is unacceptable

#

Its turn rate is really bad and its trot speed is extremely poor

#

Its an animal that has to travel via running and it also relies on its stamina to fight things off

brittle dirge
# hollow canyon As for Tenonto vs Carno - I don't think it should be heavily in favour of Tenont...

but on this point I was more so using the old Teno as an example rather than saying it needs to be reverted back completely. getting hit by it's tailslam was super punishing and you, the Carno, felt the fear of making that mistake assuming you lived to tell the tale. as far as im aware that isn't really the case anymore and getting stunned by a Teno as a Carno is just whatever unless a Stego happens to be around. In short there really isn't much to fear from a lone Teno which I don't think should be the case in a 1v1 situation

rain wraith
#

@hollow canyon they have temporarily set only pachy to fracture for testing purposes

hollow canyon
#

Yea

hollow canyon
rain wraith
#

mabye a larger stamina cost for teno combat could help

hollow canyon
#

A smaller stamina cost* but yea, it should be able to use its attacks more before running out of steam

brittle dirge
# hollow canyon That wasn't good either. I've outright killed Carnos with a single combo as a Te...

if you're fighting against a primarily defensive animal and you get hit by it's main form of defense you should absolutely feel punished for it. I've survived getting hit and stunned by Teno's tailslam as a Carno and it felt rewarding when I caught them off guard and managed to kill them successfully. now I can somewhat agree that the damage was a bit much but just the fact that Teno was a threat to Carno in a 1v1 situation was a good thing in my eyes. it made you have to think about the situation and how to approach it vs just mindlessly charging in and spam biting until the Teno dies

hollow canyon
#

I've had a situation where a Carno caught me sitting down in a bush - I ended up killing it as soon as I got up and landed a kick on it followed by the tailslams to its head.

#

That should most definitely not be a thing.

#

Tenonto should most certainly be a tough fight and a threat to a Carno that decides to take it on but it shouldn't be capable of yeeting it out with a single combo. In general the damage output of every smaller animal aside from Tenonto was lowered in the 3.75, it was a given that Tenonto was going to get hit with it.

#

Prior to that Carno did 350 damage with its bite, this has been lowered to the current 200N. Utah went down from 130N to 55N.

#

In general I'm happy about their damage outputs going down

#

It makes the fights longer and gives both sides more opportunities to turn the fight around

#

rather than making it so that one attack either wins or loses the fight

ocean wagon
#

Is carno able to ALT bite while fractured?

hollow canyon
#

I was wondering about the same thing tbh

#

but from what I could see it still seems better to just turn around and bite normally

ocean wagon
#

Hmmm

#

Turning speed should be reduced by a noticeable amount if fractured

hollow canyon
#

Don't see a reason why that is necessary, we don't need the return of the legacy bonebreak - if you've fractured a larger animal you should be getting the hell out instead of trying to tailride it.

swift flower
#

@bleak forum on paper that sounds great but just imagine what one ptera and 10 adult carnos could do on a server.

sinful cove
#

Oh yeah that wpuld be mixpacker bliss

#

Carnis wouldnt even need to use their brains to see hiding animals

thorn heart
#

I think that more of a particular scent only for ptera it should have some kind of zoom

sinful cove
#

I know it was suggested just for ptera, but it will be used in mixpacks if its added

#

Thats the ehole point of mixpacks, covering the weaknesses of your species and vice versa to be an op killing forxe

#

Ptera should be able to detect corpses from further, maybe smell areas with large quantities of fish. Zooming in is a predatory ability that would best be reserved for quetz, and the radar is just a hard no

vagrant mural
#

Due to the way rendering works and being able to fly, you can see things really well regardless

sinful cove
#

Definitely, i have an insane easy time finding dryos on ptera aready

stark knoll
#

@zealous hawk Deino can grab a full-grown carno when it reaches 3.6 tons

zealous hawk
#

In live?

stark knoll
#

Yup

#

Always has

zealous hawk
#

I either have bad aim or have been screwed over by hit boxes then. But carno is about the only creature I haven't grabbed as a deino

ocean wagon
#

deino is most definitely able to grab full grown carnos

green sluice
#

how the hell do I get hit by a ram by the pachy im actively pouncing?

wise sparrow
#

@green sluice Were you pouncing into its head?

atomic sonnet
#

still if latched onto head it shouldnt do dmg unless it rams something like a tree

wise sparrow
#

I mean if you pounce straight at its main weapon you're gonna get your lights knocked out

#

You dont get invincibility frames or something

void cove
#

is there a reaosn i cant eat cocnut as a pachy? i can grab it but it wont let me eat it. ive tried everything

sudden reef
#

i think the amount pachy consumes food needs to increase or decrease the speed of how long it takes for the food to deplete, pachys food bar goes down so quick and as an adult its so hard to gain food from a single horned melon/ agave. This might be for balance reasons so this distracts us from constant pvp instead, i honestly dont know.

ocean wagon
#

give me 1500kg carno

hollow canyon
#

I don't think such a Carno even exists

outer mulch
#

I really don't think carno needs buffs

#

Already everywhere

hollow canyon
#

Making it 1500kg would be a nerf

#

It's 1800kg atm

outer mulch
#

Oof oof

#

Idk all I see is carnos

hollow canyon
#

Really?

#

I have seen one last time I was on the QA branch

#

that one + me

#

Everyone was Pachy or Deino

outer mulch
#

Like 75% of people I see are carno

#

Deino is quite common but they all hang in 1 spot

hollow canyon
#

I've found them around the swamp and the pocket as well as that southern pond in the plains

#

Other than that a tonne of Pachys, one Carno, a couple of Utahs and 2 Stegos

#

Not a single Tenonto or Dryo

#

What server are you on?

alpine plover
#

Lmao, just make the other playables not trash
I'd argue all playables right now should play and feel well instead of bringing carno down to their abysmal level

hollow canyon
#

^

#

Tenonto needs a buff, idk about Utah, is its pounce fixed yet?

alpine plover
#

Nah

hollow canyon
#

Well rip Utah then

alpine plover
#

Utah's are still helpless

#

A Carno is a fox in the hen house to them still

hollow canyon
#

I might have to play it just to figure out how it performs I honestly haven't touched it for a long time now

outer mulch
#

Tbf I've seen carnos wipe Utahs

alpine plover
#

It's been happening for awhile

hollow canyon
#

Not surprising, Carno kind of hardcounters Utah

alpine plover
#

I get it shouldn't be a good matchup for Utah

#

But holy shit, they're like Dryo's rn

outer mulch
#

Wat isn't a good matchup for carno tho

hollow canyon
#

Stego, Deino

#

anything large

outer mulch
#

Fully grown deinos

hollow canyon
#

Carno is supposed to dumpster smalls and perform badly against big stuff

alpine plover
#

But those two don't really ever do anything except maybe ambush or resource camp

outer mulch
#

Stegos get ganked cus there is always 3x the carnos on a server

hollow canyon
#

Idk I haven't seen Carnos take on a Stego since Stegos got their buffs

#

it's probably still doable but I think it wouldn't be worth it

alpine plover
#

Stego's are just annoying

hollow canyon
#

And you'd require quite a lot of Carnos

alpine plover
#

They're too big for the roster right now

#

They don't do anything or add anything

thin mantle
# alpine plover They don't do anything or add anything

Deino is basically an environmental hazard that you only wish didn’t exist. Stego is so strong that the only reason anyone would attempt killing one is if they’ve gotten bored of their Dino and want to play something else. Apexes this early we’re a bad idea, although stego is far less egregious in this regard than deino is.

dusky surge
#

Honestly wish they could've added sucho too. Would've been a good source of danger for growing deinos and would make shallows less of a constant safe space

thin mantle
dusky surge
#

sucho was on the roadmap

#

it still is, just archived

#

The Suchomimus finds itself in a unique spot in the ecosystem, able to traverse the land and thrive in the shallows. Large and powerful enough to deter most predators, whilst lacking the speed and stamina necessary to hunt most land based creatures. Instead relying primarily on a diet of fish, the perfect animal to deploy alongside the long awaited Fishing Mechanic.

This thing would've been perfect with deino because both would fight amongst themselves and both would make it that sitting near one "safe water spot" isn't such a huge thing

#

Sucho is 5000kg. That would make it too large for deino to lunge, and have enough health to duke it out with a deino in small groups, while also being a terrifying threat for those who think "safe shallows" is all you need. Instantly create an interesting aquatic ecosystem where two aquatic dinos are forced to actually interact with each other and not have deino forced to be a cannibal just to get rid of them because no one else can.

Also the lower stam and speed would make it not viable to troll everyone with, and it would put carnos in their place finally. Everything can escape a sucho, except for deino, who has to fight it, and this makes the aquatic environment more dynamic, more fun and less "lets drink at shallows so we face zero threat lmao"

#

It is in my opinion that sucho is one of the best options for EVRIMA. Big enough to threaten deino, threatening enough to stop players from crowding "safe" drinking spots, without absolutely destroying the ecosystem due to its lower mobility

#

Honestly, if U3 had sucho instead of ptera, it would've been so much better for the game tbh. Both ptera and deino suffer from lack of contest, adding an animal that flies is cool and all, but it has a stale and boring existence, same with deino, as literally nothing fucks with 'em

#

Anyway that's my fanatic Sucho rant

dawn night
#

did i can see somewhere the roadmap?

thin mantle
# dusky surge sucho was on the roadmap

This is all pretty much perfect, although I still think linear size progression in regards to the order in which the animals were added would have been better, deino and stego just came too early, imagine if it was beipi and kentro, woulda been a whole lot more stable

wheat field
craggy cliff
#

add indoraptor to the game

rancid bluff
ocean wagon
#

what could go wrong?

spare badger
#

Universal murders the game

#

And so does the community

#

Probably lmao

ocean wagon
#

another carno main wanting to hunt stego

primal dove
#

@ember ginkgo I agree in most of ur points but remember first of all carnos are absolutely not made to hunt stegos and so are deinos, stegos are basically elephants rn

#

I really want the death roll to be added as a combat mechanic

#

or like jumping out of the water and breaking the neck while performing a death roll

#

that´d be sick

#

but there should be a huge cooldown on the death roll

ember ginkgo
# primal dove <@!300772033489272834> I agree in most of ur points but remember first of all ca...

I understand that carnos are not meant to hunt stegos but the grouping allows you to go pretty high in a carno group and while carnos are not as intelligent as utahs, utahs many times use their pack tactics to take out much larger prey than them and to defend themselves from larger predators. What I was getting at is that while a herd of stegos or even 2 stegos should be almost untouchable 1 stego should be able to be taken out by 6 carnos with 2-4 losses not just the stego wildly slinging it’s tail around and one shotting carnos left and right. Like there is bleed and in the next patch bone breaking, but what about staggering or encouraging people to group up more by allowing things like a stun meter for each dino that rapidly drains and is dependent on location as to how much that does. Say a carno charges a stego the carno builds up this speed and full force rams into a stego, the stego should have bruised ribs maybe fractures and the wind knocked out of it, but ultimately the stego wins because of 4ft thagomizers and a beefy body. now say the carno hits the stegos head full force headbutt charge, now the stego should be in trouble assuming the carno hits its mark the stego has a small head and so it should be vulnerable to head injury the carno should still die realistically bc the stego can still just tail smack, now lets change it up. go with 3 carnos, they all head charge the stego, lets say 1 on each side and the other on the head, while the stego could potentially swing killing 1 maybe kocking down another if one of the carnos hits after swinging that tail the stego should be in danger stego should ultimately win but be severely wounded, Now 6 carnos should devour a stego you can put 3 on each side and even if the stego fends off one side then the other side should have shattered bones and blood filling it’s lungs, leading to the stego dieing no matter what bc stegos dont have doctors. 6 carnos should be able to take on 1 stego and lose 2-4 carnos

golden coral
#

I think the problem here is you're thinking carnos should be able to come in more than pairs or at best trios.

ember ginkgo
#

I think overall the dino combat is a bit too simplistic rn and I know it’s a beta rn but I think they should implement more of a struggle in hunts on both sides bc rn it seems really unbalanced, tenotos dont live up to their name of being tail slamming monsters that make carnivores think twice, hypsi is just an annoyance and has no real interesting gameplay other than trolling, pachy rn is so slow, pteras are a spectator mode style of play which is fine i guess, dryos are just speed runners that serve no real purpose because no one wants to play them, utahs are really fun in a pack but get one shotted pretty easy, carnos are fast and fragile as they dossier says but the only thing to contend with them is stegos deinos and maybe a group of 2 or more tenotos, deinos are really strong but really limited and slow, and then theres stegos which just are untouchable at maturity so many people will play them and in some cases team up with deinos to take out carnos and whatnot which baffles me. It really just feels like there are a lot of spread out classes of dino and not enough dinos within each of them, like carnos should have more competition than deinos and utahs, herbivores should get herd bonuses and be incentivizes to form herds to stay safe from predators. age and sickness should be included in the game too, because often times the old,sick, and the young are the main targets of predators while the adults in their prime protect them and stragglers often get plucked from the herd

ember ginkgo
hollow maple
#

the mechanic that allows carnos to hunt stegos is called getting good

#

carno is a mid tier, stego is an apex

golden coral
#

Most things can come in bigger groups than they should honestly. There's no real way to keep populations, or groups, down, even if you can't add them to the active group, they can still just tag along.

primal dove
#

I hate this "git gud" argument but yes in that case if u really want to take on stegos as a carno then u have to learn the matchups since carno is the best carni rn

ember ginkgo
# golden coral Most things can come in bigger groups than they should honestly. There's no real...

right so the solution to overpopulation is to make the existing dinos more appealing and interactive to play, or to add dinos that change up the dynamic, if stego is apex there should be another apex carnivore to make there be a sense of danger no matter what you play as, this apex carnivore would likely be large and loud and probably clumsier and slower than the smaller dinos so they can get away but for something as large as a stego they have to fight so then it is not only more fun to be a stego because you have a reason to group for safety but there is also a carnivore that is a powerhouse and can give stegos a real fight

#

id imagine that what I am talking about will be added eventually but it would be nice if it wasn’t just a game of bite tag for the combat, a little more flavor than that for a dino game where humans control the dinos

golden coral
#

I'm not sure that will fix overpopulation, though people like to think it will. But yeah, current roster is a bit.. well, off. Stego is in far too early, so is deino really, and we're lacking the rest of the small and "mid" roster and so on.

ember ginkgo
#

Another thing I have seen is that the AI is way too aggressive, carnivores shouldnt attack you on sight unless they are really hungry or you impede on their territory

vagrant mural
heady remnant
#

how do i eat a coconut

alpine plover
#

@thin mantle skill issue

thin mantle
primal dove
#

dying to a glitch is a skill issue now

thin mantle
alpine plover
#

Lmao, just joking
I'm on the bandwagon to bitch against devs to not neuter their ecosystem

thin mantle
sinful cove
#

They did so much weird shit to utah pounce

alpine plover
#

Just tested it again
It's so garbage

sinful cove
#

Its like they lowered the range after also making it delay for some reason

barren oracle
#

Tututut

#

Jp raptor comparison

#

You're better than that

hallow spire
#

lol

sinful cove
#

No im not lol

#

I will speak the truth

alpine plover
#

Honestly it's a pretty good idea
But doubt they'll implement it and somehow not make it another nerf for it if this mechanic gets the greenlight

sinful cove
#

They like to nerf things just to shove new mechanics in its kinda sad

thin mantle
#

Would be pretty neat if they made pounce into a skillfull minigame but yknow :/

frosty heron
#

Further changes to pounce only means more bugs at this point , good idea on paper but making it real... different history

sinful cove
#

Ya i know the devs would somehow fuck it up and make it sling utah into orbit or the charging distance wouldnt work or somehow with the grip/attack pounce that wouldnt work and attacking would drain all your stam in two tics without buck

#

Or the same old utah bouncing off like a tennis ball we got

grave veldt
#

Is the isle worth playing at all

#

Cuz there seems to be a lot of negative issues that seem to be plaguing the game and dev transparency and communication is almost non existent

sinful cove
#

The isle is fun if you enjoy playing no-impact dinos like ptera who dont have to fight for survival (and run in to combat bugs) or fight for diets much and when you do die you lose basically nothing

#

Its not fun at all to get mobbed by 3 pachies as a pachy that takes like 2+ hours every time you try to eat a coconut

grave veldt
#

Hope the game succeeds

#

Eventually

ocean wagon
# grave veldt Is the isle worth playing at all

If you want me to be honest, me personally I wouldn’t recommend it to any of my friends to play. Erivima isn’t anywhere close to being finished and there’s a shit ton of balance and performance issues on the branch. Legacy…..just don’t bother with legacy. You’ll get you 6 hour apex killed to a juvi cerato that knows how to hang on to the back of your ankle

grave veldt