#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 285 of 1

karmic delta
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you wont because you'll need to be a good player to actually grow them instead of "hehe i sit in this corner of the map and grow to full while i watch netflix"

wide cosmos
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Not alot of people like playing Utah, they do it mostly because of lack of choice

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It's already weak by itself

hollow canyon
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That's not really true - Utah is popular even now despite being objectively undertuned

wide cosmos
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I usually see alot more carnos than utahs

hollow canyon
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I see both of them quite a lot

wide cosmos
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And thank God deinos are quite boring, but there's still too many of them

hollow canyon
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Day by day it differs, I sometimes see(or should I say "hear") more Carnos but sometimes I hear and see more Utahs

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There are way too many of Deinos, that's true

tidal obsidian
fathom obsidian
hollow canyon
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?

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Safelog bug just causes you to lose your animal

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why would that increase the number of Utahs?

fathom obsidian
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you really dont see how?

sinful cove
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Short grow

fathom obsidian
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^

hollow canyon
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Tenonto>Utah

sinful cove
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People dont want to regrow their longer dino

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So just go utah

hollow canyon
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You can grow it easier

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and it packs a greater punch

fathom obsidian
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not everyone has 3h to play

tacit oriole
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Utah is easy to find friends as well, even if most are smoothbrains

hollow canyon
fathom obsidian
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yeah but you grow it just to lose it right after?

hollow canyon
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I do, yea

tacit oriole
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Teno is OP, not everyone wants to be a meta sheep

hollow canyon
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it's less effort than a Utah, I can just charge it at the first thing I see if I kill it - cool, if I die? Cool as well, it's whatever

fathom obsidian
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i wont argue with you, your lack common sense

hollow canyon
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you can just afk in a bush doing whatever else, eat once and drink twice and get to full growth

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I mean - you won't argue because you have no argument

sinful cove
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Jurassic park clone attracts more people than obscure herbivore even if the herbivore is dope as fuck

hollow canyon
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Your position is simply unsustainable when it encounters actual facts so

tacit oriole
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I used to main teno but it's too easy now, Utah is hard but at least you feel like you accomplish something when you are still alive at the end of the night

hollow canyon
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I've played it only occasionally, it's a good playable all around but it does seem slightly too good right now

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We shall see how it fares when the next update rolls out as it might clip its wings somewhat

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since the diets will likely have an effect on the ease of its growth

tacit oriole
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There's a lot of desperate carnos, which doesn't help, but me and a teno I know took on a 5 carno pack a few days ago

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It wasn't easy but we never dropped below 2/3rds hp

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Limited stam is the only danger tenos face outside stego/deino

hollow canyon
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Stego/Deino aren't really a threat to them either... I mean I guess Deino kind of is a threat but not a bigger one than it is to any other animal.

tacit oriole
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Ya, only being lunged like anything under 4ton

hollow canyon
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Not that Tenonto is invincible, the running stamina cost increase definitely hurt it but

tacit oriole
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Defo not stego levels of invincibility

hollow canyon
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its damage output is absurdly high atm

tacit oriole
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But as long as you manage the engagement and don't let them mob you - and keep a safe spot ready - it's pretty hard to get yourself killed

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Being able to bait full carnos and kill them in one tailslam stun is the most OP bit

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They should of left the 300/225 nerf in the first patch in place imo

neat forge
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@vocal minnow Your Change is Really Good because a Stego can still counter and 90% of all stegos play with other Stegos or Tentos so its Fair and would make Utahs Good because now they are serious opponents again if you dont watch out you get pinned to the ground
Edit: Someone delete your Feedback Really Good Mods lol not even accept Feedback

tacit oriole
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Mods do not delete feedback

neat forge
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well and still they delete it

tacit oriole
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That is your assumption

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What is more likely is Deniz received negative reactions and deleted it themselves

neat forge
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i dont think so because he was not online

tacit oriole
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Scroll up and look at all the other feedback - much if it very questionable - which has been left untouched

tacit oriole
neat forge
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Mods Probably just took it down because of the YT video he packed in to Proof his Feedback Idea

tacit oriole
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Unless the post breached the rules, in which case there would be a formal warning in #moderation

sinful cove
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The mods deleted it because there was animal harm in the video

neat forge
sinful cove
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Nothing to do with not liking the feedback

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He posted animal harm, that's the only reason

tacit oriole
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There's your answer

neat forge
sinful cove
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It is harm because its an animal in duress

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That falls under the rules

tacit oriole
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If it's a good idea they can repost without the YouTube video

neat forge
winged sierra
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jeez do you really think mods care enough about feedback to delete it because they disagree?

golden coral
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There's nothing to discuss, the rules say what they do, no matter if we agree or disagree with them.

sinful cove
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It falls under the server rules

neat forge
sinful cove
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Congratulations

neat forge
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thx

tacit oriole
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Willfully ignorant and Dunning-Kruger is a pretty winning combination

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@wild cove agreed all points except buffing stamina regen. I think buck has too much stamina drain, not regen is too slow

stark knoll
hollow canyon
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Not that this video was reinforcing the point in any way

tacit oriole
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Utah is meant to be an attrition hunter against large targets, it seems reasonable that it takes time to achieve the goals. Plus having a regen timer significantly shorter than bleed heal (it's about the same at the moment, depending on healthiness) would be very abusable

neat forge
tacit oriole
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Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one but that doesn't mean yours is worth sharing

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Just a thought.

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I'm kind of surprised that people are actually behind a Utah buff already

neat forge
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Well in a Discussion Channel all Opinions are worth to share

Just a thought, otherwise you couldn't Discuss thing's

winged sierra
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they were ready for a utah buff the second they touched the post-patch build

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utah got harder to play and people didn't like it, as expected :p

tacit oriole
tacit oriole
crystal wharf
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minus the first point, but it aint that bad

tacit oriole
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Yeah, everyone is pretty behind the noise and inertia issues

stark knoll
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noise? is utah being loud 24/7 again?

tacit oriole
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Super duper loud

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Like you can find an idle baby from 50m away

crystal wharf
winged sierra
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yeah as bork said, i see the issue being that initially it was mostly utah mains wanting the patch to be reverted. Now we're getting more regular feedback rather than temper tantrums

stark knoll
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it feels like this happens for a species every patch lol

crystal wharf
neat forge
crystal wharf
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im really surprised carno players didnt come in to whine about getting a bite nerf
i suppose since the charge is better its fine though

neat forge
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Won't reply anymore because I need sleep

crystal wharf
tacit oriole
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I have found so many afk Utah by sound alone, if I didn't feel so sorry for them they'd all of been dead

neat forge
crystal wharf
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ok he's asked not to be pinged

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just remove it if you reply to his post again

stark knoll
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dont harass people

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the conversation is over regardless

golden coral
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@stark knollAre the critters meant to make noise when drinking or eating and all that now?

stark knoll
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critters as in ai or playables, because playables always have

golden coral
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Playables of course :p

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And yes, but stego makes weirder noises these days, not tested any of the others, just curious :p

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Scared the crap out of me when I went to drink the first time :p

stark knoll
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yea theyre meant to make noise but sometimes its way too loud

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juvie carnos eat sound was ear-bleedingly loud for a time

golden coral
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Carno drinking. That is downright terrifying and always makes me think there's a deino attacking me :p

hollow canyon
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I'm honestly not a fan of Carno doing that much damage with the charge but the only way this could be balanced out is by nerfing Tenonto and I'm not sure how I feel about doing that with how the game is right now.

tacit oriole
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The damage buff (and sprint distance buff) to charge was to encourage people to use it in favour of just biting things down - it is the carnos gimmick, after all

ocean wagon
tacit oriole
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I rarely see charges being used even now when it's arguably OP

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I think carno is fine as is, except for their monstrous appetite

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But yes, Utah needs to be quieter both to the player and all others. It's like trying to play Assassins Creed with tourretes

wide cosmos
golden coral
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@tacit oriolePurr goes the cattah! :p
And I think you should keep in mind most of us here never wanted the utah to be trash or unfun, but we do believe it should be a long and difficult pack hunt when it comes to hunting stego and similar. And most feedback back then was to just "revert" the power changes, without time to adjust to the new hunting style and approach. Not so much about the inertia which we know is not adjusted or proper bugs like the water thing and so on. Which are all issues that will help the utah when they're fixed. As well as potential changes to other interactions, such as dismount or trees/rocks vs bucking and all that. So it's not that strange that people are okay with buffs or such for utah as long as it's concerning how the playable handles and similar, rather than the sheer power of the playable.

tacit oriole
wide cosmos
tacit oriole
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I do like how unique and well done the Utah noises are, but I almost feel like they are made noisey all the time just to show off the audio

wide cosmos
tacit oriole
wide cosmos
sonic flame
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Jp3 aint that good either

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their brachi model eugh

wide cosmos
sonic flame
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Debatable, I personally found the entire plot awful in JP3 because every single problem was self caused for the characters

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afaik, there wasn't a single thing that happened to them that would've happened if they didn't act like fools

tacit oriole
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Oh God I hate that trope

wide cosmos
sonic flame
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And they're trash for it

tacit oriole
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At least the original had relatable motives and decisions

sonic flame
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If your plot only happens because the characters are idiots, they won't be likeable

wide cosmos
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At least its not overvelmingly cringe and forced like Jurasic World

sonic flame
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yeah cause the original was a good story first, dinosaur movie second

wind anvil
sonic flame
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lost world was less so, and then basically every movie after was the same thing

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Dinosaur movie first, all else takes a back seat

tacit oriole
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Anyway, Utah eating. I have a vod of a good dozen Utah's all eating at a corpse and it is absolute ear cancer

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Can't even hear discord over it

sinful cove
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does utah still do that disgusting noise when it bites too?

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why does it fucking trill when it bites

tacit oriole
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And all the OwO nom noms

golden coral
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The what now? :p

sinful cove
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its one of the worst parts of playing it

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hearing that bite noise

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its like those cringe "omnom" noises

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like something people do because they think its cute but it aint

tacit oriole
golden coral
tacit oriole
sinful cove
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i hear like 0 snap in utahs bite it just sounds like glglug

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like it has no teeth and its just smooching

tacit oriole
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Maybe that's why they do so much bleed. Just want to slurp it up like a scaley vampire

sinful cove
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utah scrapes and licks

tacit oriole
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God that just makes the OwO worse

sinful cove
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idk if theres a video of just the sounds maybe my brain is blowing it up for me

tacit oriole
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I've not personally noticed it

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The snappy slurpy noises, that is. The fake growls overpowered everything for me

sinful cove
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he fuckin purrs at the end of the bite slightly too wtf

tacit oriole
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Yeah lol, it's kinda weird

sinful cove
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same one he does with jumping

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i just dont get why he has to be so cartoony, just a snap and a huff would be fine

tacit oriole
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If it was noisey but ate quickly that would at least be understandable

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Or the noises were social chatter, like African Wild Dogs

sinful cove
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yeah like ravenously stuffing its face rather than going the stealth route, it should be one or the other

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i dont get why they have to add purrs and trills so like literally everything uwutah does

tacit oriole
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Trying to sneak a meal from camping tenos is a nightmare atm

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Grab a chunk, run away to where they can't hear you, swallow, repeat

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All for 2% hunger a bite

sinful cove
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trying to eat before another predator or a bored KFSer stops you "GNASH GWAFMMMNMF HH NOM"

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a big guy like rex who doesnt have as much to worry about is fine doing that but not something that can still be considered a prey animal to a hefty chunk of the roster

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future roster at lest

tacit oriole
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If they were a human I feel like they would talk at the top of their voice with a mouth full of food

sinful cove
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theyd be that kind of disguting person who burps and make som nom noises out loud and chews with their mouth open

tacit oriole
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Bro you gotta try some of the leg it's burp fkn amazing bro

sinful cove
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except that person is also desperately trying to scarf down a slice of bread in a 3rd world country with secret police around the corner

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making all that noise

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basically utah

tacit oriole
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Haha

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I wonder if there's justification for a slow eat and fast eat mode

sinful cove
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probably wouldnt hurt

tacit oriole
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Slow eat gives more total food, fast eat noisier and obviously faster

sinful cove
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the choice to be sneaky or stuff your face as fast as you can before mr. cerato reaches you

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maybe holding shift while you eat to fast-eat anhd slow sneak eat is the default idk

tacit oriole
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Hey that's a good idea

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Be better if it fit with the short press long press schema

sinful cove
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yeah anything works

tacit oriole
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I guess normal eating could be tap e on corpse or press and hold to eat faster, then use wasd or whatever to cancel

alpine plover
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@vocal minnow

This makes steg fodder, no.

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Making it so steg just can’t punish utahs for pouncing is helping low skill players and punishing good stegs

sinful cove
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Letting utah disengage even further for extra stam would be fine, but stopping stego from attacking dismounting raptors is shitty

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It is artificial and just punishes one side to pander to braindead raptor players

wide cosmos
wide cosmos
sinful cove
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It is supposed to be high risk high reward

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Deino technically gets punished for missing his as well because he gives himself away and cant pursue on land

wide cosmos
sinful cove
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Stego shouldnt be punished by being straight up unable to attack dismounting raptors, the only thing that should be added is more dismount control

stark knoll
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which is planned afaik

sinful cove
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Utah packs can currently take stegos down, it's just a challenge and a danger, which it should be

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We dont need handholding bullshit muzzling the stego so mr. utah can be careless

stark knoll
sinful cove
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There

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Thats good

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And thats enough for it

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Not artificially disabling pounce victims

vocal minnow
winged sierra
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Any

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Just ping or dm punch

vocal minnow
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can i search for like when he is answering quesitons

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like search his name and every message pops up

stark knoll
hollow canyon
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The distance travelled by the Utah isn't necessarily all that imporant against a good Stego. Stego players that are really good can hit the Utah mid-air according to what I've been told(I don't play Stego myself and haven't been hit by one as a Utah while dismounting so far). I think that having the control over the direction in which you're going to be dismounting might be the best solution.

wide cosmos
hollow canyon
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Not while trying to pounce - while it's dismounting

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It's obviously mainly luck if you hit a Utah that's pouncing you

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if you have one on you, then you can time the hit to hit it mid-air if you know the tricks to that(or so I've heard)

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As I said - I don't play Stego, it might just be my least played animal in the game.

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And do note - I'm not talking about Utah that's already dismounted

wide cosmos
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Haven't played much steggo, but even with little practice it was easy to shishkebab uaths dismounting.

hollow canyon
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I'm talking about hitting it while it's dismounting and still in the air

stark knoll
wide cosmos
hollow canyon
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Yea, that's what I mean although I'm not entirely sure how often shish-kebabbing a Utah mid-air actually happens. I've seen it happen on multiple occasions while Utah was already on the ground(typically because of the stutter-step) but not really mid-air. I just know it's possible and apparently there are some Stegos who can pull that off somewhat consistently.

wide cosmos
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Bucking should be stuck in animation until it finishes or Utah dismounts. Right now you can cancel bucking mid animation and attack immediately

golden coral
# wide cosmos Bucking should be stuck in animation until it finishes or Utah dismounts. Right ...

No. If you do that, you can cycle utahs perfectly safely if they can just pounce while the first utah is dismounting and there's no way to react to that because of being stuck. Better to fix the dismount, and allow bucking to be canceled whenever it's needed, to catch new utahs trying to pounce. I'd rather that be made more difficult and more down to skill than "luck". Not sure how, except making the start pounce anim obvious perhaps, so the stego can look at the utahs and see "Ah, that one is pouncing, swing that way", where ambush and pack distractions is how to "counter" that. But bucking should be a proper loop, not a set anim.

sinful cove
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Locked animations are TI_Yikes

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Like why would somebody continue to buck when its purpose has been met, they shouldnt be forced to

wide cosmos
hollow canyon
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Admittedly, I think the time spend stuck in that animation could probably be lowered(on the other hand the time spend CCed when you hit a tree should be higher really).

sinful cove
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Locked animations on shit lime eating, vocalizing, and literally just shaking around are dumb

wide cosmos
sinful cove
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At least they got rid of the vocalizing one

sinful cove
wide cosmos
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You can't just cherry pick when it suits you

sinful cove
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Im not???

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Do you thing being a garbage player and missing a massive wall target should go unpunished?

dim radish
sinful cove
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A stego cant exactly dodge a utah pounce, But a utah can aim his pounce

sinful cove
wide cosmos
sinful cove
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Coordinated utah packs can already distract a target and make them choose between attacking the one dismounting raptor and opening themself to more pouncers

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You dont need the game holding your hand by restraining your target unless you’re just bad

wide cosmos
sinful cove
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Or have a bad pack

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Utah is supposed to be high risk high reward

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Its a puny rat that can take down6+ ton animals in a group

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It doesnt need hand holding

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It should be a challenge

wide cosmos
sinful cove
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Again though bleed and inertia are not working right rn and theyre already planninn on making dismount better

wide cosmos
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I'm not saying utahs are useless. Especially with a good pack. But they are too underwhelming at the moment.

sinful cove
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And they are already planning to fix that

wide cosmos
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I like the whole attrition bleed idea, problem is that they made Utah too much reliant on pounce while pounce is very unreliable and buggy ability at the moment

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Anyone with some experience with current game mechanics can use utahs pounce against them

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I would bait utahs to pounce me as a steggonor a tenno, because it would be an end to them.

golden coral
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The bleed being bugged worries me, it's plenty lethal as it stands despite being bugged, or so it seems :p

wide cosmos
barren oracle
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stegos lose enough blood

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and deinos shouldnt be an option to pounce

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their thick skinned water dinos

golden coral
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Deinos were never an option to pounce even before the patch. At least not any deino who knew they were a semi-aquatic critter. As for stego, I don't really know, but from what I've seen, or what someone posted in feedback here with times/values, it seemed pretty okay to me.

barren oracle
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so why should a utah with thin and probably quite weak claws bleed them out

wide cosmos
barren oracle
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their slow just grab the food

golden coral
wide cosmos
golden coral
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It's fine if they scavenge near the shoreline and all that, but they shouldn't be coming up on land proper anymore

barren oracle
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if your in a pack with friends there is litteraly no issue

wide cosmos
golden coral
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@wide cosmosDeinos can be pounced right? It's not impossible?

barren oracle
wide cosmos
barren oracle
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lmao makes sense

sinful cove
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There was an idea that utahs could jump on the back and slow the deino down to stop it from stealing food

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Which could work for many dinos really

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Grab the deinos tail, step on its back, depending on what you are

hollow canyon
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Deinos don't have 100% bleed resistance... where are you getting that information from?

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I've bled Deinos out on two different occasions and I've seen an adult one get bled out by a Utah pack.

barren oracle
sinful cove
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Deinos can still get bled out if they are 100% brain dead because they have a ton of bleed resist

hollow canyon
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They merely have a high bleed resistance and a good bleed healing rate(and healing rate in general).

sinful cove
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Raw damage would get them first probably

barren oracle
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deinos are apexes

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utahs arent meant to kill em tbh

sinful cove
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Plus an aquatic one

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Makes it even more out of question for utah

hollow canyon
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Idk about Deino being an apex. I don't think it is meant to be one among the full roster but yea it's probably the worst match up for the Utah in the game.

barren oracle
sinful cove
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Its an aquatic apex but definitely loses that title on land

wide cosmos
golden coral
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Anyone know how much a full pounce would do on a deino bleed/damage wise?

sinful cove
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It would take talent to get bled out as deino while fighting back

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Like you'd have to be so good at being awful

hollow canyon
sinful cove
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A professional idiot where it's a wonder how they got to adult

wide cosmos
hollow canyon
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It's really not a wonder for anyone to get a deino to full adult(at least it wasn't until the number of fish decreased).

barren oracle
hollow canyon
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When I say that I'm specifically talking about a case where the Deino doesn't know that alt bite and bucking exist. I've seen that on a video - the Deino bled out to a Utah pack.

wide cosmos
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Deinos could just walk around with utahs on its sides and don't care

hollow canyon
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That's weird because I've seen one bled out by a Utah pack that kept on pouncing it

wide cosmos
hollow canyon
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Not sure, it was on a video

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I'd have to find it

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I think it was ScopeOG's?

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that was back during the days of update 3.5 iirc

wide cosmos
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I've seen it done before this update, but not after

wide cosmos
hollow canyon
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Yea definitely before this update

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that's for sure

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although idk if that is a factor in terms of bleeding stuff out since Utah's bleed was buffed in the last patch

wide cosmos
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Don't remember but I don't think that deino was full adult in the video either

wide cosmos
hollow canyon
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Are you sure about that?

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Because I'm pretty certain that the devs have specifically noted for one of the animals(Stego?) that its blood pool was increased.

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They wouldn't do that if these two stats were tied to one another.

wide cosmos
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More HP = larger blood pool

hollow canyon
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Yea but they would've specified that the other animals got their blood pools decreased(for all the others) or increased(for Deino) this was iirc a Stego-specific note.

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Let me just take a look at the patch notes

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Alright nevermind - they've made specific comments about blood pools being increased/decreased for each animal, separately from the HP pools.

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You can take it as you will but I would say that this still means that they aren't "tied" to one another.

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Since those are two different stats that they separate in the patch notes.

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But yea this does make Deino (even)harder to bleed out now

wide cosmos
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It wouldn't make sense if it wasn't, larger animal = more blood. The whole idea for this patch to get rid of artificial stats. That's why Weight = HP now. It makes sense that Weight = blood

golden coral
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Considering deino being as safe as it is anyway, I doubt it being easier or harder to bleed or damage will make a difference as it stands. Maybe if they had to actually be on land and put themselves at risk. Basking to counter bleed/regen stamina? :p

hollow canyon
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I wouldn't take that as a given unless the devs specify that - the hp pools in the legacy were equal to the weight of most animals but there were some exceptions from that rule e.g. Rex had a higher HP pool than weight while Giga had a higher weight than HP pool.

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We don't know the actual bleed values so

wide cosmos
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I think it should be riskier for deinos to venture far inland

golden coral
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It should. Not sure how far inland they go these days?

wide cosmos
barren oracle
wide cosmos
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But all rivers are connected

barren oracle
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through the ocean

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and a marathon

wide cosmos
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No, only one river leads to the ocean, they are all interconnected

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I know because I've made the trip to all the rivers myself as a deino, only time I had to come out of water is to go around waterfalls

hollow canyon
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They shouldn't all be connected and Deinos should be forced to move their tails on land to get from one body of water to another.

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The fact that they get to sit in the water the whole time is one of the issues with them imo.

sinful cove
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Says i got a ping here TI_Think

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What a mystery

tacit oriole
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Certainly not agouti replying to a post and then realising just how far back it was

sinful cove
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lol i wouldnt have minded honestly

tacit oriole
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Just me still on my crusade to spread knowledge

tacit oriole
ruby root
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carno needs stam buff cuz it gets outstammed by teno in a chase and teno easily kills a carno and carno hardly escapes cuz teno has better stam

sinful cove
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wallow

ruby root
#

ye but tenos can still keep up

tacit oriole
#

Carno can outrun teno easily though? And if teno burns all its stam to catch you then it can't slam or kick and it's an easy meal

#

Like tenos chasing carnos long distance is 200 IQ bait by carno

true ginkgo
#

I think I just had a stroke trying to read jake's feedback

tidal obsidian
#

Lol

dim radish
#

“Freame rate“

“Pounch“

wide cosmos
ocean wagon
ocean wagon
#

But the devs want teno to act like a horse more so than a water buffalo

#

Dondi even said it himself

hollow canyon
#

I don't think that any changes in that match up should really take place - yea Tenonto had way too much run-time before the last patch but now I really don't think that's the case

#

it's lost a minute of running time, Carno lost some 20-30 seconds iirc

#

I haven't played enough Carno on this patch but I really don't think Tenonto should be as oppressive to it in terms of running it down as it was previously just based on the numbers.

sinful cove
wide cosmos
#

That ambulance emoji KEKW man's having a stroke

sinful cove
#

Think he gave me a stroke too lmao

wide cosmos
#

Strokes are contagious

barren oracle
sinful cove
#

I dont know lmao

#

Every time i read it my brain processes it differently

#

Its witchcraft

sleek obsidian
#

What is that guy even suggesting?

barren oracle
#

idk?

solemn sequoia
#

Think just a rant about bugs

dim radish
#

He's ranting about the fream rate

sinful cove
#

Pounch the gator

wide cosmos
sinful cove
#

Idk why “get stuck in the floor if you pounch the gator” actually made me laugh

dim radish
#

Just work your self for be finished

#

Pounch, the new special attack of the boxing-Utah

#

The punch pounce, super effective against crocs and gators

fathom obsidian
#

imagine bullying someone because they are not very good at english...

tacit oriole
#

@dawn falcon thats not how bleed works, BTW.

#

Bleeds cannot be held open in any way. The only purpose bites have against actual prey like teno is preventing blood pool regen, which is not really worth it as a risk/reward proposition

#

Utah is very easy to misjudge as an outsider doing paper analysis, you really need to spend some time playing them to understand where they are at atm.

golden coral
#

I feel like that sentiment should be applied to stego as well. Far too many people that just like to say "but it does so much damage" and takes nothing else into account, thinking that raw damage is the only thing that matter, or that damage is the same as ability to put pressure on something.

@tacit orioleAnd you know that people mean preventing bleed regen when they say keeping the wound open/bleed going. Not that it continues to bleed, but that it keeps the target stuck with the debuffs of the current bleed level.

unborn iris
#

Like he said, a few lingering bugs/unplanned changes are hurting utah right now. We'll see how they tweak it, though.

dawn falcon
#

Bite keeps the wound open and prevents them from regening that blood in preparation for the actual pounce.

unborn iris
#

I really feel like utah vs stego is never going to be in a good place. Everyone says they don't want stego to die to solo utah, but if 5 utahs can kill a stego 1 utah can do the same, it will just take longer. If pounce works, stego bleeding out is inevitable.

tacit oriole
#

Noting that the pool regen is 30min when standing, I still think bites are not worth risking death for

#

A good Utah pack should be pouncing again before the bleed heals anyway. If you are high stam - and you'd be laying down if you weren't - you should be going for more pounces imo

#

The only exception is if your prey is easily bait able and you are just trying to keep them moving for higher bleed

#

Or I guess a tree camping carno, but even then double slash through their tail is better

golden coral
# unborn iris I really feel like utah vs stego is never going to be in a good place. Everyone ...

It will be in a good, or at least proper place when the pounce is no longer slotting (and has punishment for misaiming), the stego has a proper swing attack, and maybe with a little dermal armor on the neck (as it apparently had for real) and so on. It's far from an impossible matchup to make work, it all depends on how the utahs should hunt and how that matches with a stegos way to defend.

golden coral
tacit oriole
unborn iris
#

I thought stego was the preferred prey for a pack of utahs.

tacit oriole
#

That sort of "hunting big wounded things" feels like core Utah tactics

golden coral
#

Kato here knows what I mean with that :p

tacit oriole
#

I think people want stego as Utah prey because stego really has no predators atm

winged sierra
#

stego is most definitely not the ideal prey of utahs

golden coral
#

But yes, for now stego should be utah prey, if only because they do need predators and it makes more sense than carnos at the very least.

winged sierra
#

you can take on a stego, but it should by no means be your first choice

golden coral
#

But stego being prey does not mean that it's a good prey out of all the large animals

#

Just like you might prefer to go for a rex over a spino, if only because spino can do the deino and just go "I'm out" with the water

#

Not saying rexes are good prey choice either for utahs, but in comparison, a spino might be even trickier to pin down for a hunt

golden coral
tacit oriole
#

But yeah you can chain them to avoid most of the mobility penalty after use

golden coral
#

Wouldn't you move out of range if you used it more than once like that?

tacit oriole
#

The hitbox is pretty generous, if you start at the right point you can finish the first one inside their tail and still get a hit for the second one, or double back if you think they will alt-bite for the exit hit

#

But it's also useful as a turn and dash even if you aren't actually hitting them

tacit oriole
#

Really, Utah would be fine if they could be more opportunistic with their original Hunger rate. You could judge whether prey was smart enough to use trees properly, or would just tree rub or ignore them completely... Be patient and wait for ambushes...

#

But with how much carnivores need to eat you end up going for progressively more and more desperate plays until you die

#

Or you end up with a whole bunch of other Utah's following you around and you lose any ability for stealth

golden coral
#

@tacit orioleWhat does happen if you do the aim at a tree for a dismount? The utah hits the tree on dismount and does what?

tacit oriole
#

I've been meaning to make a little VoD to demonstrate it for a bit, I'll do it tonight

#

I believe the stagger time is the same as a missed pounce, but I'm not sure

golden coral
#

Hm... so it's only a stagger then, not the full knockdown.

#

Less time to react, but I guess with the cut off distance it's still plenty useful

golden coral
tidal obsidian
#

ok

tacit oriole
golden coral
#

Yeah. That's not the same as just pouncing a tree, at least not anymore.

#

But you should test that too then, just to make sure

#

But I think pouncing a tree now only does the same as missing a pounce. Not the full knocked on your ass.

tacit oriole
#

Yeah, I haven't done much with that since U3.5. I'll have a look and be certain

golden coral
#

But if it's still the full knockdown if you dismount and hit an object, it's plenty useful

#

Still not sure why you have issues just rubbing them off, but maybe it's the choice of tree, since that can glitch them out so they can just keep running, if upside down at times.. :p

tacit oriole
#

I don't have any problems rubbing people off, but few Utah's are dumb enough to let you do it haha

#

Wait that came out wrong

golden coral
#

But they're dumb enough to let you aim them at the same tree? :p

tacit oriole
#

Well if they aren't aware of it, yeah. Plus you only need to be somewhat near a tree rather than touching it

golden coral
#

Alright, fair enough. I need to try that out, if the save bug could leave me be.. :p

#

Can't get a grown stego because I keep losing them halfway there due to said bug!

#

No idea how people make it work

tacit oriole
#

Ah, that's sucks. Well if you are still online in 6 hours or so I can show in person, else VoD will have to do

#

It doesn't affect everyone equally, I've only had it happen once, some people never, some people every time

#

But yeah 3 Utah vs teno is eventually winnable if they park one side against a tree, because you can bait with one and get a pounce on the far side with the other

#

Jump off before they spin in time

#

But if they fight like a stego with head towards the tree and spin to point with alt-bite it's way way harder

golden coral
tacit oriole
#

You turn pretty much instantly then do the swipe, which if all you want is body orientation is fine

#

Plus if you have a Utah on each side you might tag the other one baiting you

golden coral
#

And here I've been using it to both juke a headbite and return a headstrike at the same time vs a utah :p

tacit oriole
#

Oh yeah, that too

#

Utah loses the beadbite trade unless you have something else distracting you really badly

golden coral
#

Makes sense, since the swipe is more powerful than the bite, always have been I think?

tacit oriole
#

Yeah, used to be 110/200 now it's 25/175 (so swipe does 7x the damage)

#

Plus bleed

golden coral
#

Tenos are vicious critters!

tacit oriole
#

Karate Kid with a knife

golden coral
#

Either my sound has messed up or the baby teno has weird noises for attacks now... :p

tacit oriole
#

I'll have to take your word for it, I'm a dedicated bush grower lol

golden coral
#

Enjoy it while it's still viable! Can't wait for diets to fix that, and give me an interesting and hopefully enjoyable stego growth!

tacit oriole
#

I think current stego power curve is probably deliberate, they are so strong when FG it seems fair to make them a walking meal for 4.5 hours

#

I just hope the model transitions will be fixed so you can actually tell how big they are

golden coral
#

And proper hunters of course, but the same goes there. Not so much a walking meal as a proper challenge in different stages for different numbers of utahs, or one or two carnos and so on.

tacit oriole
#

Good point, I think it would be nice (especially for carnivores) to not be like "useless until FG" but more like you just change niches and prey as you grow

golden coral
#

Should go for all critters, carni and herbi alike

#

Competition + what you hunt/get hunted by and so on

tacit oriole
#

If it isn't just a quest to survive to full grown... At which point you can actually play the game properly... Longer grow times would be more palatable

golden coral
#

Small utahs = compete with herreras, tree climbers. Bigger ones not so much but in turn might deal with ceratos and then be hunted by carnos and so on.

#

Growing up should be part of the gameplay loop, not just a "wait and then play"

tacit oriole
#

Be more like RPG (diablo etc) where the most interesting gameplay is actually before Max level, not at it

golden coral
#

1-3 utahs = hunt young substego, 3-6 = hunt big sub/young adult stego, 7+ = hunt adult stegos, preference for wounded or otherwise weak ones

#

With proper food yield for sizes hopefully, and maybe longer hunger times. Rumor has it current ones are not that good for longer hunts :p

golden coral
tacit oriole
#

I'd love to see even longer growth times across the board, as long as the gameplay was still there for all growth stages

#

If it took you 10+ hours of fun gameplay to get a full allo/giga/rex it would be an actual achievement without it just being "only grow it if you have no life"

#

Though my understanding is that sort of long-term progression is planned through elders and ancestors, not longer growth times

golden coral
#

It would, but you'd never get that greenlit by the playerbase I don't think. Maybe for rex but only because "fuck apexes" is a common mentality.

#

But I mean, I think even dryo should have a proper growth so you experience the whole life cycle, but that's generally very frowned upon for some reason.. :p

tacit oriole
#

I think it makes more sense for the big dinos haha

#

But yeah, I kind of agree with people on the "ew apexes" front. Having players which are just straight untouchable because they sunk more hours than you did, in a PvP game, is not much fun

sinful cove
#

i think that the ease of an animal's growth should also have an affect on the length of their growth. the more viable a juvenile/sub stage is the longer the growth should be within your tier

golden coral
#

I'd say any playable should offer a proper experience, the time can and should obviously vary, and you certainly should get a herrera or dryo easier than an allo or maia, and them in turn easier than rex or trike. But I still think even the small ones shouldn't just be "blink and you miss it" when it comes to growth and lifecycle

sinful cove
#

animals with utterly miserable and harder to pass stages should have a shorter grow time than a same power animal with an easier growth stage cycle. so a rex would probably take longer to grow than a giga because giga juveniles are not athletic while rexes are

#

assuming thatll be the case

tacit oriole
#

Ptera captures the growth power curve pretty well imo, even though it isn't a good example of a roster member in many other ways

golden coral
golden coral
tacit oriole
golden coral
#

Time invested does have to be rewarded in some manner, otherwise it's just a waste of time. And people need to stop counting groups as a common investment when it's not... :p

golden coral
tacit oriole
#

Like if I just want to survive and enjoy the ambience then DoD, for all its numerous flaws, is higher on my list

#

All personal preference, hopefully the roster supports both

golden coral
#

As well as server settings and all that

#

And if DoD eventually manages to become a game with a proper gameplay loop and all, I'll be playing that too most likely :p

#

But I think you can fight in that game too, don't they have both PvE and PvP servers even?

tacit oriole
#

Yeah, there's not really much to do beyond PvP breeding and flying around though... I'm not holding my breath for a fully fleshed out game, but that's a topic for another channel

ocean wagon
#

I just want sub giga to not be meals on wheels

sinful cove
#

“Let's reward afk and discourage travel”

hollow canyon
#

^ sounds like a great idea

dusky surge
#

One thing i really appreciate about this game is the bushes. I can sit still for hours just staring at them.

hollow canyon
#

Staring at the bushes is one of the most underrated aspects. I think it would be a great idea if we got to sit in them some more.

dusky surge
#

Glad someone has finally suggested something that aids in my hobby of looking at bushes

hollow canyon
#

I'm absolutely thrilled at the prospect of sitting in a bush motionless some more. It always creates just the peak-gameplay for me.

dusky surge
#

Meek-minded players will say things like "player engagement", "exploration" and "survival" are important in this game, but I beg to differ

#

Nothing beats a good old bush watching session

hollow canyon
#

Who needs that when you can just sit still staring at the leaves of that beautiful bush?

dusky surge
#

I bet these fools haven't even memorised the exact amount of leaves on each bush type

#

I have, but I will avoid saying it here so that people will take initiative and count for themselves

#

It becomes quite invigorating once you get to the triple digits

dim radish
#

We shouldn't get weather though.
Watching bushes while they swirl around in soft wind is too much action for me

dusky surge
#

I agree, it would throw off my leaf counting

hollow canyon
#

That would get in the way of counting the leaves, no?

#

Yea

dim radish
#

Exactly!

#

I can't know the exact number of leaves in the jungle when that damn wind destroys everything!

#

The isle is supposed to be relaxing and peaceful. Dinosaurs sitting on sunny rocks while watching the bushes. Not some low tier horror game play

ocean wagon
#

I do wish the devs would’ve planned out their ecosystem a bit better, none of these dinos in game rn have an actual dynamic relationship with each other

dusky surge
#

wdym by dynamic relationship?

ocean wagon
#

I’m just going to use stego and Utah as an example for simplicity

dim radish
#

I can't see Stego and Utah in a relationship personally

#

Doesn't fit

#

Utah never does the dishes

fluid blade
#

?

ocean wagon
#

I see A LOT of people complaining about Utah not being able to kill stegos, and no shit they shouldn’t because Utah’s whole gig is attack your sides and stegos whole did is swing it’s tail from its side.

#

There’s no real natural predator for stego IMO

#

And no I don’t count deino

dim radish
#

And it gets awkward during family gatherings.

But yeah jokes aside, I do agree that we need some predator-prey relationships

ocean wagon
#

They should’ve added dinos that actually have relationships with each other instead of the current roster

sinful cove
#

It was fine until they suddenly escalated from max 1.8ton to suddnly 6-8 ton

ocean wagon
#

Like no land carnivores can really challenge a stego with an IQ over 10

golden coral
#

Teno and utah were supposed to be rivals I think, more or less

#

Same with pachy and utah

dim radish
#

Utah gets clapped

golden coral
#

So there are some relationships like what you're looking for, or should be at least

ocean wagon
#

I see pachy more of a rival than teno and Utah

golden coral
#

We just have a stego thrown in, and a deino xD

#

But yeah, utah vs pachy 1v1, more or less, utah vs teno in group vs 1 I guess

ocean wagon
#

That’s what I’m saying that it’s been over a year and there’s no actual ecosystem relationship between any of the dinos really

golden coral
#

And then we have the living meme that hypsi is xD

dusky surge
#

I mean, teno and carno, imo, have a decent relationship. Both are pretty equipped to fight the other, and it often falls to skill. In the same vein, the pachy v utah matchup, imo, will be finally something that gives utah a fight where it doesn't feel either outclassed in speed or outclassed in strength. These two are basically designed to have fair 1v1 brawls.

ocean wagon
#

Ngl

#

If you die to a solo carno as a teno

#

Um

#

Drop teno

#

Teno is literally built to take on carno

dusky surge
#

A big issue with stego atm, is that the only thing that's of around an equal weight class to it is an aquatic that hunts smaller game. Deino is not built at all to be a rival for bigger foes, which leaves stego kinda as a powerhouse which feels alienated from the rest of the roster.

ocean wagon
#

Yeah exactly

#

The ecosystem is very poor

dawn falcon
#

Though stego doesn’t effect the ecosystem as much, nor does Deino. Though it still adds an unnecessary threat to carnivores

#

Which is why it shouldn’t have been added

dusky surge
#

Honestly, most of it works imo, except I'd add a quetz to contest ptera, more aquatics for deino to actually hunt and interact with (and to make shallows less of a crutch, using something like sucho) and something big that makes stego actually fear something.

dawn falcon
#

Or is it still to early

golden coral
#

Allo, sucho, could work

ocean wagon
#

Sucho would work if deino didn’t exist

golden coral
#

But then you'd need something to cull the allos I guess, deino and sucho could try and handle each other

dawn falcon
#

Yeah honestly

#

If we’ve got two apexes
Might aswell give them true predators

golden coral
#

I'd say let diets try and sort out the ecosystem a bit, deinos currently only fear each other, and stegos could go the same way

dawn falcon
#

Though it’s gotta work somehow

ocean wagon
#

As I said earlier, the only chance of sucho being viable in aquatic environments is if deino can’t drag it

dawn falcon
dawn falcon
#

4 tons?

golden coral
#

Especially if we can make interspecies combat a bit more interesting

dusky surge
#

Sucho as the "bear" of the Isle sounds exactly as it should be. Prefers to stick around shallow waters, as opposed to deino's deeper waters, primarily lives on fish, but can take kills or scare off anything that contests it for its territory. It would not be fast enough to cause significant threat to the current roster in a hunt, and deino v sucho would be reliant of if one decides to enter the other's territory, with both being fiercely territorial creatures

ocean wagon
#

Maybe? I avoided playing sucho like the plague

golden coral
#

Could lead to wounded/weak stegos and deinos, easier to cull for things

dawn falcon
golden coral
#

As long as sucho can not be grabbed, it could work out, more or less?

ocean wagon
dusky surge
#

So saying "let's drink at shallows" also is saying "let's run the risk of pissing off a sucho"

dawn falcon
dawn falcon
#

You have a point

#

Keep shallows but give it a risk aswel

golden coral
#

Nah, shallows is dumb :p

#

It needs to go

dawn falcon
#

Well

#

Not shallows as a whole

#

But keep the concept

ocean wagon
#

Elite fish wouldn’t survive in shallows though

dawn falcon
#

And integrate grizzly suchos into there

ocean wagon
#

And I doubt sucho is eating those small rainbow fish

dusky surge
# golden coral Nah, shallows is dumb :p

Only dumb with the roster of one fucking aquatic that relies on non-shallow water. The whole massive shallow river sucks ass tho, I agree.

Deino = deep water, sucho = shallow water.

dawn falcon
#

Keep in mind they could add shallow water fish

ocean wagon
#

Truuueeeee

golden coral
dusky surge
#

Shallow rivers should be more scarce then a giant goddamn river that spans the entire middle of the island

dawn falcon
#

Like maybe they could have salmon runs and we could make Sucho act like a grizzly bear and wait at the rivers edge TI_WeSmart

#

Though

#

Idk if salmon could live there

#

Idk if they could program that

ocean wagon
#

Salmon are small compared to sucho though

#

Like it needs elite fish as a diet

dawn falcon
#

Salmon can get quite large though.

#

I’m Alaskan for crying out loud.
They get hugggee

#

King salmon for one

#

Those would technically be elite fish if it’s the big king salmon

#

These two are examples

image0.webp image1.webp
ocean wagon
#

Aren’t those salt water fish though?

#

Like ocean dwelling fish

dawn falcon
#

They do swim through rivers, shallow or not, to get to the ocean

#

Afaik they spawn in the rivers and swim in the ocean to get to the females

#

Wait

#

It might be the other way around

spare badger
#

salmon all go to rivers to spawn

#

majority die on the way or after mating

dawn falcon
#

Okay

#

Good

#

I got it right

spare badger
#

females and males all go upstream

dawn falcon
#

So technically, Kingsalmon can even go through shallow waters.
And if that’s not enough to convince you to add em, let them swim upstream water deep, but not deep to where a Sub/adult Deino could swim in it.

spare badger
#

bear suchoTI_Perfect

dawn falcon
#

Bear Sucho wading for King salmon PogBlue

spare badger
#

give sucho a faster wade

#

so it can escape gigas and rexes in knee deep water

#

35km/h sucho pls

#

those long legs arent slow

dawn falcon
#

I unironically want suchos calls to be a combination of its current calls and a grizzly bears

hollow canyon
#

Sucho irl weighs 3.6t after the density changes. I think it should be made larger for the gameplay purposes. I'd probably go with a 4.2t size for it so that it doesn't get instagibbed by Deinosuchus. Having said that I really don't think this animal would be very capable of fighting an adult Deino. It could probably hunt some smaller Deinos that aren't fully grown but a fully grown one is a death sentence to a Sucho that decides to take it on.

#

The only way to make Deinos vulnerable at all is to force them to travel on land between the bodies of water(and even then I think some larger predators might be required).

sonic flame
#

Isnt the 3.6 due to a sub adult specimen?

spare badger
#

Well
We don't know if it's a sub adult or not

hollow canyon
#

The Suchomimus we have isn't a subadult to our current knowledge

spare badger
#

We have so few fossils

hollow canyon
#

The only thing that indicated it to be a subadult and caused everyone to believe that was some interview with Paul Sereno back in the 90s where the man stated that "It probably could've grown a couple of feet".

#

I've seen an estimate of a slightly longer Sucho and they put it at 4.2-4.3t(and 12m in length)

#

Which would admittedly be a very sensible size for it in the game(imo)

spare badger
#

We have one mostly complete specimen so we can't really tell if that sucho was a sub or not

hollow canyon
#

Currently we consider the largest specimen we have to be an adult though

#

I think we actually have more

spare badger
#

We do?

hollow canyon
#

It's just that the others are fragmentary and/or stuck in "Sereno's basement"

spare badger
#

Right

#

But a 4.3 ton sucho is super reasonable

hollow canyon
#

Cristatusaurus might be synonymous with Sucho too(in which case it would make Suchomimus obsolete as "Cristatusaurus" was named first).

#

All the other remains/specimens are smaller than the 3.6t Sucho from what I recall btw

spare badger
#

As long as it can't get grabbed be deino it'll be fine

spare badger
hollow canyon
#

Yea that's the main reason why I think it should be slightly upsized

#

Might be a subspecies yea

#

I don't remember the details, but I think the two are getting lumped together unless it's just a rumour running around discords that doesn't have an actual basis

spare badger
#

Ye
Imo to balance sucho we need

35km/h run
Meh Stam
Fast Wade
Decent trot
High damage bite
Either a grab/pin or huge claw swipe with tons of bleed
Or both

#

And a good swim speed

#

With that it should be balanced

hollow canyon
#

I don't think Sucho should have a high damage bite

#

It doesn't make sense for the animal, I'd rather have it do the real damage with its claws

spare badger
#

Wasn't sucho thought to have a really strong bite tho

#

Or am I making that up

hollow canyon
#

The largest Sucho has a bite half as strong as an Allo half its size

#

iirc 3.6t Sucho bites with half the power of a 1.6t Allo

#

And Allo isn't exactly the most potent "biter" in the neighbourhood to put it midlly

spare badger
#

Huh
Well
It doesn't have those huge claws for nothing
That's why sucho pinTI_Perfect

#

Just hold down those allos

hollow canyon
#

I think Sucho should definitely have the advantage over Allo/Alberto due to its size

#

but I think that in a 1v2 it should hope that there's water that it can escape through nearby

#

I think the legacy match up was rather nice

#

(between Allo and Sucho that is)

spare badger
#

Yes

#

Not a 1v2
A one v 3 definitely

hollow canyon
#

I don't think Sucho should be outfighting 2 Allos/Albertos

#

That isn't a very large Allo

spare badger
#

If we are upsizing sucho tho

hollow canyon
#

It still wouldn't have that big of an advantage size-wise

spare badger
#

It should lose a 2v1 but not by much

hollow canyon
#

Allo is around 3t now(or 2.7t prior to density changes, idk with which estimate we're going) while Sucho has a tonne-tonne and a half over it

spare badger
#

Yea
So 2v1 55/45 Allo favour

#

If it's a good sucho it can win

#

But 3v1 it's gotta book it into the water

#

That's where the fast Wade comes in

hollow canyon
#

This is the size difference between the two

AlloSucho.PNG
#

It's really just not that large

#

I don't think Sucho is beating two Allos unless they play it very poorly and try to facetank it

#

They should be bleeding it out imo

#

Taking turns attacking and disengaging

spare badger
#

True true

#

If they get hit by the claws

hollow canyon
#

Or one grappling it while the other mauls it

spare badger
#

How many to kill you think?

hollow canyon
#

It's hard to say, depends on how much health both are going to have

spare badger
#

Based on weight now right

hollow canyon
#

assuming 2700 hp on Allo and 4200 hp on Sucho

#

Yea but it depends on how large Allo is too, I'm going to assume it's 2.7t

spare badger
#

Ye

#

Those claws should do super high bleed

hollow canyon
#

I think they should be mainly focused on damage

#

I don't think it makes much sense to me for any spinosaurid to be a bleeder

#

Bary seems like the best option if anything

#

Sucho and Spino should just be very tanky damage dealers that rely on either outdamaging or CCing their prey item/opponent

#

That's how I see them at least

spare badger
#

I have forgotten what CCing means

hollow canyon
#

crowd control - it's when you make the opponent incapable of properly controlling their creature either by slowing its movement, staggering it or stunning/knocking it down

spare badger
#

That's what I thought it meant just making sure

#

Ye

hollow canyon
#

Yea

spare badger
#

I agree

hollow canyon
#

That's what I think Sucho should be doing

#

I'm thinking of it as a sumo-wrestler among the mid tiers, it's big, and can dish out a lot of damage if it catches you

spare badger
#

Giving it the fastest Wade in the game

#

To escape apexes

hollow canyon
#

Oh yea it should wade fast

spare badger
#

And large packs

hollow canyon
#

If you see more than one Allo - you just go for the shallows and book it

#

No terrestrial dino could follow you there

spare badger
#

It should be like a grizzly bear
Get too close and it's all over

#

But it'll prefer to sit in the river and eat salmon

hollow canyon
#

But if you just wander around out in the open, far away from the water you will be in trouble if more than one Allo shows up or if you bump into an Acro

spare badger
#

You're toast

#

It'll lose to acro or packs of mid tiers

#

How high should suchos groups be

#

2 or 3

#

Deino has 2 so Imma say 3

hollow canyon
#

I don't think Sucho should be in large groups, neither should Carnos or Ceratos for that matter

#

Yea I think Suchos could be in groups of 3

#

same for Carnos and perhaps Ceratos

spare badger
#

Allos would have large groups
5ish

hollow canyon
#

I think all those should be good picks for solo players

spare badger
#

Ye

hollow canyon
#

while Allo is a better pick for someone who wants to play in a pack

spare badger
#

Yes

#

But
A 3v5
Allo favour of sucho favour
TI_Think

hollow canyon
#

I think Suchos should have the upper hand tbh

spare badger
#

Suchos should probably
Cause it's less than 2 allos per sucho

hollow canyon
#

Yea although to be fair

#

that's just in theory

#

if Allos focus down one Sucho

spare badger
#

It would probably be an even fight

#

But what would suchos special be
Just a claw
A pin
Or something else?

hollow canyon
#

I generally think that if Allos manage to make it a long engagement where they cause the Suchos to bleed and stop them from retreating to water they could win this but if Suchos either manage to deal a lot of damage to them in the early engagements without taking much bleed they would just steamroll them

#

I think just a claw attack for the rmb

#

and an alt bite where it perhaps uses both the jaws and the claws to attack around its body, dealing more damage than with either rmb or lmb

spare badger
#

That sounds fine

#

Sucho will definitely be better in evrima

hollow canyon
#

Sucho was very good in the legacy, its only issue was that it had no trot

spare badger
#

Cause the water is actually more fleshed out

hollow canyon
#

like - it seemed to me like the devs outright forgot to add trotting to this animal(it did have trot but it was barely faster than its walk)

#

other than that the animal was borderline too good

#

it dealt a tonne of damage and a lot of bleed, while having great weight

#

and a decent hp pool

#

The lack of trot made it kind of fodder to adult Gigas

#

but that's about it

#

anything else Sucho could either survive or just outright kill

#

Allo vs Sucho match up was also very cool, it was actually winnable 1v1 as an Allo unlike what most people think but it was extremely difficult to pull off and any mistake meant that you were dying

#

As in - Sucho was heavily favoured in that match up but it wasn't impossible for Allo to win this with the right approach

spare badger
#

Even with the shit trot

#

Sucho could've been good if any server allowed you to flee into water

#

Cause sucho swims pretty fast

#

But yea it's trot make doing anything as sucho an absolute chore

hollow canyon
#

Just going to point out that iirc Giga and Rex actually swam faster

spare badger
#

What

hollow canyon
#

Rex had the best swimming speed I think

#

in the game

spare badger
#

That's dumb

#

I right

#

Sucho just took half of the Stam drain or something

hollow canyon
#

Yea it could definitely swim much longer than they could

#

But they could catch you if they ambushed into the water

spare badger
#

They gotta allow sucho to dive

hollow canyon
#

Giga was actually probably the best... ermm "aquatic" in the game

spare badger
#

Lmao

hollow canyon
#

It's true - I've beaten Rexes just by baiting them into the water

#

The Gigashark was real

#

It was so good because it turned extremely well in the water and it had more stamina than Rex, swimming also wasn't affected by having your leg broken

#

so all you had to do was basically - run into the water, get behind the Rex who now can't alt turn since it's swimming and just go chompa-chomp on its butt

spare badger
#

Damn
Legacy was so trash

#

I only played it for a few months

hollow canyon
#

I've played it since 2018, it was nice but it had some things that needed to be fixed and since the code didn't allow for them to be fixed - well what could the devs do? Just reset the project and create Evrima

#

I haven't played the Legacy in ages though

spare badger
#

What new non legacy dino do you want the most

hollow canyon
#

Let me look at the list

#

Probably Deinocheirus actually

#

I'm mainly interested in the playables that were already present in the legacy version though

spare badger
#

I just want kentro and sucho
Actually
All of the dinos that weren't that good in legacy
I wanted to play
Para, sucho, pachy, cera

#

Sucho was just good enough that I could play it

hollow canyon
#

I've played at the time when Para was really good(outright overpowered) and same goes for Cerato(although this one was more balanced).

spare badger
#

Para was good
What was it like

hollow canyon
#

Old Para before its nerf had one of the highest runtimes in the game and ran faster than a Dilo - it was literally the Allo-killed and deserved a nerf for a very long time before it finally got hit with one

#

The issue was that when its strong sides got toned down, its weaknesses became very, very apparent

#

As in - it also needed some buffs to e.g. stamina regen and trot

spare badger
#

They should give us chunky para

RDT_20210825_1918217933970867792541797.jpg
hollow canyon
#

It would have a lot of overlap with Shantungosaurus I think

#

So I don't think that's going to happen

spare badger
#

True

hollow canyon
#

I'd personally probably put it at either 5t or 7t

spare badger
#

Most hadrosaurs were shant sized apparently

hollow canyon
#

A lot of them were

#

although according to what I've heard Shant might've been bigger than previously thought(allegedly there's some femur that implies a weight of 19t)

spare badger
#

Damn

#

I love that people are starting to realize hadrosaurs aren't weak

hollow canyon
#

Oh, and as for when Cerato was good - it was actually a really cool playable at the time and I'm hoping the devs introduce an animal with that niche into the game again.

#

It just really didn't make sense for Cerato to occupy that niche but the niche itself was pretty cool

#

You basically had a rather slow(running speed as fast as Giga) animal with an extremely explosive ambush that dealt very little bleed and a very high damage and was very resistant to bleed

#

The thing just wouldn't die to bleed at all

spare badger
#

That sounds super fun

hollow canyon
#

You could drop an entire pack of Dilos as a Cerato(that is if they were dumb enough to actually fight you), your ambush was capable of catching even Utahs and you grew very fast

#

The only downsides were that you needed to eat - like a lot

spare badger
#

That
What would fill that niche

hollow canyon
#

It had the lowest hunger time of all animals

#

I'm not sure - the issue is that there's no ambush in the current game and that was the mechanic that made it work in the legacy

#

it was extremely short(I think as long as the Rex ambush or even shorter) but very fast

#

it was very vulnerable to apexes

#

But extremely good against other animals. I guess Sucho is somewhat similar in terms of that?

spare badger
#

I guess so

#

Maybe like
Monolophosaurus would do that on a smaller scale

#

What's acros niche

vagrant mural
#

Fat

hollow canyon
#

No idea, in the legacy it was occupying the "broken animal" niche , it's hard to say what can be done about it now

spare badger
#

Maybe acro could fill that spot?

#

Chunky, tanks bleed well, explosive power

hollow canyon
#

It could maybe, its design would even fit that but the issue is - it needs an ambush mechanic of some sort

spare badger
#

Maybe it could just have a really fast accelleration

hollow canyon
#

The characteristic thing of Ceratorex was that it was slow, ate a lot, had good damage and the best resistance in the game

#

Acceleration doesn't cut it

spare badger
#

Hmmm

hollow canyon
#

It's just not good to catch smaller animals, even if you get from 0 to full speed instantly. Unless you're also decently fast it's not going to do you any good

ocean wagon
#

i'll hold off my extreme criticism on sucho until I for sure know how spino will operate in evrima. Because if we do upsize sucho then it will essential just be a sub adult spino. But like I said, i'll hold off until i get more info on both creatures

hollow canyon
#

Well, Spino is still twice larger and yea there will be some overlap between the two most likely

spare badger
#

They could bring back ambush for certain dinos but give it a long charge up time so it can't be abused in fights

ocean wagon
#

god no

spare badger
#

Not sure thats a good idea tho

ocean wagon
#

ambush was barely used for actual ambushing. everyone used it in terms of normal combat

#

which is why im okay with how they did carnos charge

#

^to an extent

hollow canyon
#

I think that there are ways to make it so ambush wouldn't be used for normal combat

#

The mechanic itself was good, there just simply weren't enough downsides to it

spare badger
ocean wagon
#

well yeah if there are miniscule differences between the two, other than their tier ranges, spino is the better choice hands down

spare badger
#

I hope there's a reason to play sucho over spino
I never really found apexes to be that I interesting bit that's just me

Spino should be much more difficult to play
And need to hunt down things like deinocheirus and Deinosuchus
I guess that's just sucho on hard mode but
Ehh I hope they figure something out

ocean wagon
#

i dont really see cheirus or deino being on spinos menu. Spino isnt really built for to hunt them

#

deino should be faster in the water and cheirus should be faster on land

spare badger
#

What would be in spinos menu
None of the fish in game can support the spoon

ocean wagon
#

exactly

#

i said this earlier, but the isle has a poor enviroment

spare badger
#

I doubt onchapristis is gonna make it as AI in rivers

#

Cause that's like the only thing that'll support a spoon

#

It is the largest carnivore to be in the game
So maybe it can bully things off of kills

#

But spino isn't a scavenger

#

It's wasteful
That's why rugops is a thing

#

Hmm

ocean wagon
#

then again, they have a JP3 spino

#

so i take back what I said about it hunting cheirus and deino

spare badger
#

True true

#

I still want this tho

#

Idk y they didn't go with this design

safe anchor
spare badger
#

Yea

#

Still like this one tho

sinful cove
#

Imagine being a dino forced to go to swamps for your diet and the game punishes you for drinking there

#

Awful idea

safe anchor
barren oracle
sinful cove
#

I am chill

sinful cove
barren oracle
#

that does not seem chill

sinful cove
#

That is your opinion

#

I am quite chill

barren oracle
#

hmmmmm

#

be a little less harsh tho kinda mean

sinful cove
#

It is how i am

alpine plover
#

don’t be mean

safe anchor
#

how to give the right kinda criticism and not just say bad idea its shit explain The why its bad or a shit idea

sinful cove
#

I thought i did with the fact that some animals will have diets in areas where you are literally punished for drinking water

#

I can understand salt water but being punished for drinking from a marsh or swamp when the game forces you to go there for your food is ridiculous

#

And would only be annoying and not engaging gameplay at all

safe anchor
sinful cove
#

God imagine only being able to drink from certain sources of fresh water

#

Just discourage traveling alltogether

#

Fresh water is fresh water

#

Dinosaurs arent humans wholl get sick and die if they drink a bit of gunk

#

Humans should get sick from just carelessly drinking bog water definitely but not dinosaurs who do all sorts of dirty shit

safe anchor
#

if your food is at point A and your drinking water is say on the other side of the map at point B then it would make you move around as a example

sinful cove
#

That just sounds artificial

#

Fresh water is fresh water

#

Salt water is salt water

safe anchor
ocean wagon
#

animals dont really get sick from drinking swamp water though? i can understand drinking salt water....but swamp water normally doesnt have that much affect on animals in general

sinful cove
#

So since it is a game we should add annoying mechanics that are out of place?

#

It is supposed to feel somewhat natural

safe anchor
#

you are missing the point

sinful cove
#

Humans have weak as hell immune systems compared to most animals so only they should get sick from bog water

#

You dont see zebras passing up that disgusting croc shit soup water in the savannah

safe anchor
#

making people move from point A to point B makes it so you need to move around and not just sit at one place and do nothing

winged sierra
#

I think different types of water could be used as a gameplay element without making it unfun. Having preferred or disliked water could just be another way to encourage movement

sinful cove
#

Animals drink disgusting water

#

Draining diet resources makes you move. General crave for exploration and conflict makes you move more

safe anchor
winged sierra
#

Drink preferred water and it acts as a buffer for your nutrition, perhaps making it drain slower or increase more when eating preferred foods. It’s not as bad of an idea as you’re making it out to be

sinful cove
#

If the game puts your water and food in totally different spots on the map youre just running back and forth and that isnt fun thats fetch quest levels of boring

safe anchor
sinful cove
#

Lmao were getting diets thats something to do

winged sierra
sinful cove
#

It only makes sense that an animal eating bog plants can drink bog water. It only makes sense that nasty animals drink nasty water like IRL

sinful cove
winged sierra
#

Far away is very relative. Something can be far and still not be far to the point of boredom

sinful cove
#

Literal fetch quest gameplay running across the map while one resource drains and then back and forth and back and forth. Where is the room for actual gameplay? If food and water alone are already so inconvenient then where is the room for everything else?

safe anchor
#

it was an example.....

winged sierra
#

You can use this same argument against diets. “Putting preferred foods far from each other just makes it a fetch quest”

sinful cove
#

Diets can add immersion, making you ping pong across the island constantly by punishing you for drinking near your food detracts from other gameplay activities

safe anchor
#

yeah what if your diet food isnt near water then you'll need to travel for it anyway "fetch quest” just to get food

sinful cove
#

Thats one thing, because you can still just drink any fresh water you find

#

But it is utterly stupid to put an animal's preferred food in a fresh water rich environment and then say “fuck you, don't drink here”

#

Animals with food in arod areas likely wouldn’t have as fast of water drain anyway

#

Because they are arid dinos

winged sierra
safe anchor
sinful cove
#

Just because its something to do doesnt automatically mean it is good

safe anchor
sinful cove
#

You could stop somebody's gameplay loop and force them to play solitaire or their dino gets tapeworms. That's something to do right?

winged sierra
#

And on the water thing, just for the record I’m completely against giving debuffs for drinking somewhere. I’m for giving certain benefits for drinking from preferred water sources

sinful cove
#

The suggestion asked for debuffs and that is my primary issue

#

I dont care if moving water gives a benefit over stagnant water, but punishments are stupid

safe anchor
sinful cove
#

If you drink salt water and you arent a marine dino you deserve to be punished but fresh water is fresh water to animals

safe anchor
sinful cove
#

Id rather have slow punch-up corpse bully cera who can beat you up if you get too close than slightly-slower-than-carno cera who is weaker because of it

barren oracle
#

i think it would be cool to have it faster than most carnivores

#

cause it is a bit of a scavenger

#

so having it able to chose to fight like a bully

#

or run cause it has to

#

is a cool concept

sinful cove
#

Cera should be able to escape mid tiers, whether its with the legacy giga style of escape or being a bit faster than them, but its supposed to be a mean bastard

#

It cant be a punch-up bully and be faster than most preds at the same tome

#

Also i hope it hets a septic bite that makes even mid tiers reconsider if he's worth attacking

#

But probably not

barren oracle
#

i want it to have a grapple

#

where it can grab and tear small stuff

ocean wagon
#

the biggest carnivore mid tier I can see cerato being able to fight is a carno, and thats simple because carno is not a brawler

barren oracle
#

and drag and slow down bigger stuff like magy

ocean wagon
barren oracle
sinful cove
#

Cera would no doubt get its ass beat by actual mid tiers but i think he should be able to leave a mark that makes them reconsider

#

Like infected bite

#

Is this overgrown trash goblin really worth getting an infection over?

#

That would be somewhat of a deterrent

barren oracle
#

i want it to have a garbage eating animation 🙂

ocean wagon
# barren oracle lock jaw?

to shorten it, it has a bite attack that locks down on larger/same size creatures and does devastating damage

#

if it has a grapple attack, it will be a shitty version of allo

barren oracle
#

theres allo concepts?

ocean wagon
#

no but its confirmed allo will have a grapple

barren oracle
#

lemme grab smthn

ocean wagon
#

plus ceras arms arent good grabbing tools

barren oracle
#

lemme grab what im thinking of

hollow canyon
#

@scenic heron Ceratosaurus is actually estimated as a rather slow animal in general, ranging somehwere in the 29-33km/h range, whilst Carno moves at a much more impressive speed of 45-50km/h. The results you get on google aren't very reliable for most if not all the things regarding dinosaurs.

barren oracle
#

i think it would be cool if it had something like the one on the left

ocean wagon
#

the one with the magy?

barren oracle
#

ye

ocean wagon
#

if anything that just supports the lock jaw ability

#

same with the cera crushing the deino juvis skull

lament cloak
#

ah yes, cerato was as fast as a carno, and titanoboa was as fast as a lion TI_Trollge

unknown.png
#

first thing that pops up on google moment

winged sierra
#

it's funny because people send screenshots of literally the first thing that comes up on google

#

like

#

critical thinking?

lament cloak
#

I am very proud of myself TI_Troll

unknown.png
barren oracle
#

the blue cat reigns supreme no more

lament cloak
stark knoll
#

oh my god IM the clown

spare badger
#

Heh

ocean wagon
#

Lmaooooo

#

The idea of the isle cera being basically the same speed as the carno…..

#

Have mercy on us

#

Dondi I beg

hollow canyon
#

Do you mean Cerato?

ocean wagon
#

Yeah smh

#

My phone autocorrected

winged sierra
#

i'd honestly like to see how goofy it'd look

#

those little legs

hollow canyon
#

I see, I'm just going to point out that that whole estimate isn't even completely wrong - it's just that Cerato's max estimated running speed is 20mph, it doesn't get anywhere close to 30

#

while Carno actually runs 30mph based on some of the estimates

#

in general that's a pretty large speed difference

#

around 17km/h

#

It's around as big as the speed difference between legacy Allo and legacy Carno so that person probably didn't even realise that those numbers don't actually suggest that those animals "run almost as fast"

sinful cove
#

Cerato special ability where it just goes turbo mode and its legs move in a blur as it zooms at 60kmh with a sound affect thats just one of the devs making race car noises in a low quality mic