balance-feedback-discussion

[stuck shoal]

He was muted for saying "Retard" , something known to mute people. I'll fix him.

[grave veldt]

oh didnt even know u can get muted for that lol

[frosty heron]

Noted Lol

[sinful cove]

Thank you 🙏

[stuck shoal]

There's an automod for words like 'Retard', 'Nazi', or similar things.

[grave veldt]

welp time to take notes

[sinful cove]

Anyway i was gonna say para shouldnt be killing allo unless the allo is an idiot but it should be able to neutralize and escape with great cc and mobility

[grave veldt]

makes sense

it doesnt have any notable weapons so

its a hardosaur anyways their made to peace out fast

[frosty heron]

Cc seems like a good think for it

[sinful cove]

Personally i think para should have some of the best cc with shoulder checks, sheer body mass and a dizzying 3 call with a diminishing return

Only actual attacks being the punch and trample which is sort of just an effect

[grave veldt]

paras biggest weapon is just its sheer size honestly

[frosty heron]

The Acro tho will be able to tank that CC, so Acro should be at least not very stamina friendly compared to Para

[sinful cove]

Especially if we get tubi instead of walkeri

[grave veldt]

it seems like we'll get tubi but who knows

[sinful cove]

Yeah i dont think para will be shoving acro around easy, tho that 3 call will mess up almost anyones ears

Had the idea way back when some para cult ambushed my spino in the swamp and turned my speakers into static lol

[frosty heron]

Make a 3 call that stuns you and you can only troth while the debuff lasts, also make your vision blurry

[sinful cove]

Not as much of a stun as it would he a daze really

[grave veldt]

yea some type of ability with its calls would make sense

[sinful cove]

Blurry vision, ringing ears, bad turn rate for a short time as the para hauls ass

[frosty heron]

Of course don't make it spameable and give sort of cooldown between calls just like the current Stun

[sinful cove]

The 3 call sounds good for this, that thing is a warhorn

It would have diminishing return, especially since calls should he making you hoarse as you spam them

Know how if you spam jump it drains more stam each time, spamming the 3 call would just not be effective

[grave veldt]

makes sense

[frosty heron]

Yeah but if you can Stunlock there comes the teamwork strat

Could be broken on certain herd matchups, Para stuns your ass, Stego comes and swings your eyeball

[sinful cove]

Could also do a diminishing return on the ‘victim’ of a stun/daze to prevent this

[grave veldt]

i wonder how it would work tho like which dinos would be affected, AOE ability, herbivores and carnivores etc

[sinful cove]

It would probably affect herbi and carnis in range alike, maybe paras could be immune so they arent punished for herding i guess

[grave veldt]

i mean ig but like isnt this already the case with teno

[sinful cove]

If a diminishing return is on the target

[grave veldt]

teno can just stun a carno and gg if theres a stego

[frosty heron]

Needs very good coordination on Carnos as Stun doesn't last much, it's about 2 secs

[grave veldt]

yea so we can make paras last sort of in that range

[sinful cove]

In para's case it would probably daze the poor stego too lol so less likely to tag team with it

[frosty heron]

If it affects other herbs then it's pretty balanced mechanic

And makes Para viable

So we kinda agree fits very well for it

[grave veldt]

thats the only special ability i would even think to give to para

[sinful cove]

Affects all other dinos, places a diminishing return on the target to prevent herd stunlocks, seems fair to me

[frosty heron]

Wonder when Para will get added, while not being my personal favorite it's a kinda cool Dino to see around

[sinful cove]

Aside from that hes good with body checks and his usual punch, the headbutt should go because he shouldnt be ramming that that hollow tube on his head

[grave veldt]

i think para going with allo seems cool imo

[sinful cove]

Added with allo or acro, also hoping we get tubi instead of walkeri but eh its cool as long as it isnt a free happy meal again

[frosty heron]

I even thought that Para had to come out first before the Stego

[grave veldt]

honestly i wished kentro came before stego

but it is what it is

[frosty heron]

Or Kentro

[sinful cove]

Stego was an odd choice esp since it both feels unbalanced to have such a high tier out of place and that high tier being hunted by small game hunters (carno) it should have waited

[frosty heron]

Omg that thing will be a pain in the nuts if it gonna have some kinda of reflect damage

[grave veldt]

i hope it has reflect dmg as it has spikes literally everywhere

would be stupid for a utah to be able to pounce a kentro

[sinful cove]

Kentro will need reflect damage to thrive so hopefully it comes with it

[frosty heron]

And what about the weakness it gonna have so it isn't an inmortal Dino

Considering the smaller size compared to Stego and grow time of course

[sinful cove]

Pachy was shown breaking its spike so idk it might be able to get fracture damage there

[grave veldt]

non-bite attacks would be the key to killing a kentro

claws, tails, headbutt, etc

[frosty heron]

Carno charge = Breaking the spikes? Doesn't seems good

Carno should get damaged anyways in a realistic manner

[grave veldt]

this is a good question honestly

how would u kill a kentro

[frosty heron]

Yeah and Utahs can't pounce it, only viable thing is aiming for headshots

[sinful cove]

Guess we'll find out who will be breaking his spikes and how when he comes out

[frosty heron]

Maybe making it weak to bleed

[grave veldt]

refrence image

it has a main weak spot on the body

[sinful cove]

Ambushing a kentro seems the way to do it

[grave veldt]

preds can take advantage of that

although kentro can just tail smack u if u try n get its side

[sinful cove]

Not allowing the kentro to take a defensive stance and a well aimed surprise seems like the hunting strat to use

[grave veldt]

a carno charging that side area is gonna deal major dmg

[frosty heron]

We're going to rather hard hitbox zones, with the game desync it will be unconsistent to land attacks on certain area

[sinful cove]

I hope they fix desync before taking legacy behind the barn

[grave veldt]

i think the main preds of kentro are the smaller type of preds

mainly troodon

[frosty heron]

Venomous predators seems like a good pred for them

[grave veldt]

in theory kentro is just smaller stego thats spikey

[frosty heron]

You have the image with the actual size?

[grave veldt]

yea

[frosty heron]

Oofie

[grave veldt]

its not a very big animal

ye

[frosty heron]

Even not the biggest mid tiers would have an easy hit on those areas, I mean look at the Cera is taller than that

[grave veldt]

the head is the main thing for kentro

[frosty heron]

Looks small even compared to an Utah

[grave veldt]

its the biggest weakspot

yea its not very big at all

ik we were thinking oh its like a small stego

but like its rly small compared to stego

although it has spikes everywhere

so its unique in that aspect

[frosty heron]

Well think that Dino will come out with the perk system in the game released, at least the base

There might be a perk to deal with the spikes

[grave veldt]

im sure they'll find a way to balance it

[cloud urchin]

At 80% of your growth, you'd still be a force to reckon with that can accomplish quite a lot. You're a near full adult Rex. And seeing as Elders are potential gateways into Strains, I'd say there's no harm in making a 1.0 Rex even rarer to come across.

I left the juvi and sub stage alone (although 1.0 Sub Rex should never have been allowed to exist) because the goal isn't to stop players from reaching Adulthood Apexi. It's to slow down the number of players who get to have full throttle 1.0 Adult Apexi. A fresh spawn adult apex isn't something to scoff at, but it is comparatively fair compared to what it turns into within an hour. Not too weak, but not too strong. You can make the early stage juvi and sub garbage, and players'll still bypass it by carebearing, nesting, and camping. Flatly increase the time, however, and what you get is animal that still acts like an Apex when played proper but does ask that you put in a bit of that extra effort.

Aside from that, do you really want to make the juvie stages worse than they already are for most animals? Not saying that Legacy Rex doesn't already have one of the best growths in game, but I'd rather treat it as a model for other juvies to rise up to instead of just dragging it down to their level. Assuming we don't get environments and mechanics to better assist the youth.

[stiff zephyr]

Dunno imo if you make carno turn worse then utahs will have the upper hand in combat. I believe it was said carno would be able to drift and what we have now is.... not as grand as i expected it to be. Its not the heaviest dinosaur by far, and it seems pretty slim to be agile enough to turn somewhat well. Im just afraid that we will go back to the legacy meta: utahs will consistently out turn everything, have a bunch of bleed to put on their target and now w pounce they will just deteriorate the opponent's stam on top of that. Utah shouldnt be able to take on a rex/giga solo, or at least it shouldnt be as simple as dancing behind and biting ankles. (Though tbf i am also guilty of it)

[tender prairie]

I don't think we need to worry too much about carno being apex until we have bigger dinos to compare it to, but it is worrying that a stego can die to utahs or carnos fairly quickly yeah

[vernal sentinel]

no, we need to worry about it since it will be the biggest terrestial carnivore for a while

it's way too broken atm

[warm mesa]

I mean it will be the biggest, but cerato basically has to be stronger atleast in biteforce, potentially higher health though id assume they would have around the same or the same amount of health. You cant outrun a carno but you should be able to fight a carno, with ceratos you can outrun it if you cant fight it and fight it if you cant out run it. If you cant fight a carno your dead meat eitherway cause of the speed it has, a turn radius nerf should be something thats only logical since Carno is meant to be a open plains runner not something that can perfectly and swiftly manevour the dense forests.

[light aspen]

@grim salmon it will probably be fixed in update five with improved gore

[onyx magnet]

The roadmap is getting some changes after update 3

[vernal sentinel]

what

[onyx magnet]

I’ll send you the screen shot of it

[tender hatch]

The jab isnt bad

You're just bad at stego

[crystal wharf]

jab isnt very useful against utah and carno, just because of speed, a lower damage swing that only covers the tail area and is activated by alt+rmb would be better, would keep the jab for larger animals, and still let stego attack on the move

[sinful cove]

Just have a jab and a swipe lol

[quasi grove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401464048610312195/809792084084391976/Kebab.mp4

"jab isnt bad"

[sinful cove]

Thats a hitbox issue + no reflective damage to be fair

Biting thagomizers, spikes and horns reflecting your attack would help solve stuff like that

[quasi grove]

and the other issue being that it does stupid low damage

Utahraptor surviving a body hit
Carnotaurus surviving a head hit

for how fast and nimble these predators are, and how small they are against Stego
the price of that speed advantage should be not being able to stand Stego's damage at all

but no

you just block with your tail to reduce the thago damage even more
and if you do get nicked in the body or face, you just run off, sit and heal, and then come back

[sinful cove]

Hoping stego gets buffed when big shit comes out and its only garbage rn because the biggest predator is a psuedo midtier, which would make sense. But ua with hitbox issues and carnos tanking a thag to the face its pretty dumb atm

[quasi grove]

cause unless the stego wallowed and runs into a forest, it leaves a yellow brick road you can follow
or it has to deal with bleed so its just standing there

Big shit is already coming

If stego struggles to deal with carno and utah already
Deinosuchus will shit down its throat

[sinful cove]

Is it confirmed whether stego will be compensated or not

[quasi grove]

the only thing we do know is the global bleed damage buff likely increasing Thago Jabs bleed damage

whether it'll be enough we dont know

alongside the wallow nerf of course

but until the beta, we have no idea if that'll work for utah and carno

deinosuchus hypothetically just runs out of the water and tanks the first thagojab to just bite your face a few times and you die

thanks stegosaurus specific boosted headshot multiplier

[sinful cove]

yeah I guess he does sound pretty screwed

[quasi grove]

your only chance is to run away

before it can get onto you

[grave veldt]

just gonna say rq

that when i asked fillipe about this

he said we have bleed

so im guessing biting the spikes will deal bleed now is how im interpreting that

[nocturne zenith]

The worst thing about steg is its growth time and power

Why would anyone spend 5 hours to grow a slow walking meatbag

[alpine plover]

Cough cough legacy para but not 5 hours.

[sinful cove]

basically legacy trike too lol

[uncut surge]

So you can go on rampages killing Utahs and carnos with some tenotos on no rule servers

[hollow canyon]

You're not killing either unless they actively decide to go after your mixherd(which shouldn't be a thing in the first place).

[tender prairie]

Jab even looks dumb, it'd be impossible to lead a movement like that. Swinging an arm, cracking a whip, throwing out a fishing line, all of that requires starting the movement at the base of the length of the item... imagine throwing a punch w/o your shoulder/weight being pushed into it? It'd be nothing. Swing would make so much more sense overall, look better, be more well-balanced--if you get caught anywhere in that arc you bleed

[nocturne zenith]

u dont make Any sense,4 utahs can simply pounce and kill a stego,and carnos can just run away after getting hit once

[frosty heron]

He's talking with companion of Tenontos

And tbh Carnos vs Stegos fight removing the tail bug, it's a fair fight, hunting a Stego with a legit Carno Pack you always gonna get hit at least once, if you have locked damage you can die from 1 headshot

Unless the Stego is really bad at timing its attacks, Carno can't approach as easy as an Utah after the Stego failed a tail swing

I would be ok with 1 headshot to kill but not with 1 body hit , that's unfair af

[grave veldt]

i agree

stegos vs carnos is pretty fun if u minus the tail hit

bug

i think in the furture having it one shot carno is fine

as allo will be the main thing hunting stegos

and bigger carnis

[nocturne zenith]

Stegos main problem imo is its growth time,if its not gonna 1 shot mid tiers that take 1-2 hours to grow,it should not take 5 hours to grow at the first place.makes no sense

its Like devs are trying to discourage you from playing stego for some reason

[grave veldt]

No they just dulled it down becuz carno and Utah were the only carnis at the time

But becuz of bad balancing stego will get bodied if it doesn’t change soon

Qubaal explained it best

#general-feedback message

[uncut surge]

Not always a stego can easily run into a tree or hug a river

[grave veldt]

Hugging a river is gonna be gone

All u have left is tree which it is very viable yes

But the fact it only takes 4 pounces to kill a stego is insane

[sinful cove]

Wtf else is a juvie stego supposed to do lmao its dogshit slow

[fallen lynx]

die

[sinful cove]

Seemslegit

[alpine plover]

Glad some people aren't in charge of balance

[sinful cove]

lol ikr do they want juvi stego to just roll over and die if a utah sees it? it can't run for shit, it's their fault for approaching it and letting it hit them

[alpine plover]

juvie stego is no pushover

but its not so hard to bait an attack and just land headshots

it has way less range, and way less hp

[frosty heron]

I survived an Utah pounce as Juvi Stego Lol

With barely 800 kgs (about 10% Juvi), and I hit hard the Utah that pounced me, use trees

[sinful cove]

Ok but we were talkin bout somebody who thinks juvie stego should be a free snack for utah lmao

Just because they were being a dumbass and chose to stand there and tank hits from one

[frosty heron]

It shouldn't considering how slow is it

[sinful cove]

Yea exactly

[frosty heron]

Should be able to defend itself and stay on its ground

[sinful cove]

It cant do shit aside from slap you with its nubs

So it should stay viable

[frosty heron]

That's why as Juvi Stego I'm always traveling thru dense forest and not in open fields

[sinful cove]

Maybe that guy would be better off hunting something at his skill level, like a juvie dryo or maybe a gore pile

[grave veldt]

juvi stego is fine as it is

juvi teno tho

[fallow wagon]

@wooden jungle "Please don’t change stego’s tail attack, it should be challenging. It’s balanced as is. Just because you can die as a stego now, doesn’t mean it needs to be changed."

lol it's not that I just find it to be conceptually silly

that's not how Stegosaur tails work

they wouldn't lead with their tail for a scorpion stab their tails aren't built like that and a swing is physically way more efficient and damaging

scorpion stab looks so silly

you can and should be able to die as anything I don't think making the tail do a proper swing would make Stego op. Make it a long animation, make it do the body rotate thing still n shit, if u rly want to keep challenge in it

jus make it swing n swipe rather than thrust n stab

[frosty jacinth]

^ agreed. The jab is just unnatural from an anatomical standpoint, and is quite off putting

No idea why they thought to give stego a jab attack, fully render, rig, and animate it, and never stopped to think about the fact that a jab is completely implausible for a creature such as the stego

[safe anchor]

because this is a a game that's not based on realism. i don't think the jab is bad nor do i think its great either.

[frosty jacinth]

Still, even for a game that’s not supposed to be completely realistic the motion does not fit the creature nor it’s anatomy

If the stego had specialized anatomy it could work, but right now with it’s current model, it just doesn’t

The isle has an amazing way of making non realistic things work when it comes to a gameplay standpoint however, so with some slight reworking it could definitely become plausible

But as of right now a swing would be a much better option as it’s much more visually appealing when compared to other attacks, as the other attacks perfectly fit the creatures they belong to, and their personalities

I feel like a jab would make more sense for a kentro, and a swing would make more sense for a stego

[safe anchor]

this is balance does the tail do enough damage yes/no? does the tail move fast enough yes/no? does the tail move too fast yes/no? these are just some the basics of balance, If you are asking to change the jab animations ect needs to go in #general-feedback

[frosty jacinth]

I was just adding to what Jenna said and explaining why I agreed with her

[grave veldt]

dmg needs to be upped

or if not it needs to be compensated for with massive bleed

[frosty heron]

Or maybe just change some multipliers on body parts

[tall bronze]

Ptera picking things up not only makes no sense because it's feet aren't designed to grab stuff, but it'd be very unfun for whoever's grabbed. You get picked up and just have to wait until you fall to your death. No point in a struggle mechanic either because you'd still just fall.

The only way I can see a struggle mechanic working is if the Ptera/whatever is grabbing you has trouble taking off while holding you, giving you time to escape. But there's still the issue of it being unfun if you do get picked up and it making zero sense for Ptera.

[lean shoal]

grabbing live players is a no go for trolling reasons. because unfortunately some people ruin everything.

[devout crystal]

And yet a stego can gallop

[tall bronze]

But like Ptera's feet literally can't bend that way. Stego galloping is just a weird animation thing

[devout crystal]

The game isn't made to be that realistic I understand what ur saying though

[hollow canyon]

The difference is that Pteranodon picking up just about anything with its feet would look just absurd.

[hardy dirge]

I mean I feel like grabbing players alive as anything aside flying animals could be done. Hypothetically you grab a smaller animal but if you don't either kill it or put it down, you automatically drop it after a said amount of time. But I mean there's probably plenty of flaws to that on its own as well.

[slim dragon]

That wouldn't solve anything

People don't need a lot of time to be able to troll someone

And if you don't give them enough time, you'd have to drop them very shortly after picking them up, in that case there's no point in putting that mechanic

[grave veldt]

It’s more of just less of realism and more of just it’s not good for the game

It’s like a troll mechanic in a way

[hallow rose]

oh no

[slim dragon]

Actually it is

But both dinos are way faster than they should be irl

[full ocean]

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[slim dragon]

imo the only dinos that should be faster than carno are galli and velo

[full ocean]

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[slim dragon]

velociraptor

[full ocean]

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[slim dragon]

Yes yes, it doesn't retain it from being fast

Carno is theorized to go at 35-40 kmh, while velo is theorized to go at 60

[full ocean]

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[slim dragon]

Some dogs can go 70

[full ocean]

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[slim dragon]

Well I'm looking at it on the internet
Velo is said to go between 40 and 60 kmph depending on the sources

[full ocean]

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[slim dragon]

Well ok

But devs could increase its speed a little if they want it to be viable, otherwise it's gonna struggle against preds like carno and utah

[full ocean]

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[slim dragon]

ye

[full ocean]

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[gaunt jackal]

Or hear me out it could have one of the many niche abiltes that will be in evrima

[slim dragon]

Well I don't want velo to be a burrower nor a tree-climber

And don't even think about making it a semiaquatic

[modest carbon]

Ew semi aquatic velo

[sinful cove]

What kinda doofus suggestion is that lol making carno slow. Speed is his whole gimmick

[jolly osprey]

That’s like asking for rex to bite softer.

[obtuse shuttle]

that moment when real life carno is one of the fastest if not the fastest dinosaur and utah is around rex speed

[slim dragon]

How fast is ornithomimus theorized to go ?

I thought it was the fastest dino

[obtuse shuttle]

im not epxert, but i think similar to the isle, one has faster top speed (carno) but the other is simply more agile and have much better acceleration (galli/ornitho)

[slim dragon]

Wait I'm gonna check on the internet what is current ornithomimus' estimated speed
Last time I check (around 12 years ago) it was 80

[obtuse shuttle]

and even if im wrong carno is still among the fastests

bear in mind that ornitho may no be the fastest ornithomimid

[slim dragon]

Fuck
How much is 40 miles in normal calculation system ?

[obtuse shuttle]

idk

64 km

[slim dragon]

That's pretty fast

Galli is estimated at 56, a tiny bit faster than carno

[sacred zodiac]

How exactly do i pounce something without basically falling to my death because my utah doesnt get up

[desert wave]

Let go before your stam runs out

[unkempt vault]

Let go before you can be knocked off. Currently utahs can be knocked off by trees and running into water (there’s also bucking, but works less effective than the other two in my experience)

[sacred zodiac]

Oh so i was just being dumb the whole time

Goddamnit im an idiot

[raven egret]

@sacred zodiac i agree that Utahraptor should be getting up from the ground faster, it really feels like it just woke up from a midday nap

[modest carbon]

Dislike the idea of punishing people for being near other people. Brings up too many conflicting questions: what about juvies? What about water sources? How big is the area? What about during a fight?
It just seems like something that would take so long to produce, and if the said thing was implemented, and toggleable, people would flock to servers where this mechanic would be disabled. Like rules, and the whole process of this game is for there to be no rules so people can do whatever the heck they want

[distant anvil]

The Official Servers have always had rules because of Mixpacking and Overpacking The servers without those rules actually have less popularity. Overpacking and Mixpacking cause critical game balance issues thus the rules.

You can easily tune for Juvies take less stress because they're kids and don't know any better.

There are plenty of water sources, should the trike drink right next to the Rex in nature? Probabibly shouldn't.

Also survival is all about competeing for resources.

Anyway it just means you need to eat or drink more it's not saying you cannot do these things.

[modest carbon]

But you are also punishing same species, thats also saying that stegos, tenontos, herbivores etc. should avoid water small sources if there is already a same species group there. And still just seems annoying, uneeded, and a waste of effort to create such a thing

Say there's a big group surrounding a small pond, and you and your smaller group of sub adults either suffer when drinking, or are forced to move on

[distant anvil]

Well one water source or food source area shouldn't be able to support a massive herd. In nature it cannot do this because there are limited resources. You could actually have competeing groups of herbivores which I find to be an interesting dynamic.

What you described is what happens in nature and is the point to survival. With no rules all it takes is 1 rex player to cut off an entire water source.

[safe anchor]

stress can be easily abused thats the problem with it

[distant anvil]

How so?

[modest carbon]

With rules, 1 rex can still cut off an entire water source

[distant anvil]

Exactly so the point that a water source can be cut off by a group of animals still remains.

Also this is something you'd have to balance and tune

Naturally you cannot have this happen super fast and just immediately need to eat forever.

[modest carbon]

But it shouldn't be an added extra mechanic that people should have to worry about. It's different if you are adding stress from carnivore to Herbivore, but for stress of overpacking? If they have no interest of packing and simply just need water or food, you are punishing them

[distant anvil]

It's just causing more strain on the natural resources around the area. So more conflict s likely due to stressed animals.

[modest carbon]

It still proves no meaning, it's unnecessary

[distant anvil]

I think that depends if you agree that overpacking and mixpacking are issues.

If you don't think they're an issue than I understand where you're coming from.

Probabibly the key reason why we're not seeing Rexes or Apexes entering the game as playable for now is that that those are massively unbalanced and cause critical gameplay issues due to imbalance of power with overpacking.

[safe anchor]

you see a large maxed out group of steggos im going to now troll them with a fast small utah to make them stressed out.it dont matter if i die i have nothing to lose other then a small utah that took me no time to grow

[golden coral]

I don't think a stress system is optimal. And as Syn just said, there are both ways to troll people, as well as ways to get around, especially with discord for coordination.

[distant anvil]

Yes but you can counter balance for that Synergy.

[safe anchor]

say you rule out the small side of things you cant still troll them with a quicker creature like utah adult

[golden coral]

I can assure you, seeing 7 adult carnos come at me as a solo stego is not exactly my idea of fun, and I've seen that on officials, but I'd rather that not be a thing because of food drain and other harsh survival demands, than some stress system that punishes them for being too close together or similar.

[safe anchor]

yup okay how do you stop people abusing it what can you do to make it balanced?

[distant anvil]

You have different animals factoring size # and level of threat to yourself affect the degree at which the stress builds. Also stress would build over time not happen instantly.

People still try to harass and starve herbivores out.

[golden coral]

Would you have some indication of being stressed out?

[distant anvil]

The Herbivore can always just eat more grass...

It would be a Stress Meter that slowly fills.

[golden coral]

Yeah.. right, ambush/stalking gone then?

[distant anvil]

How would ambush and stalking go away?

[golden coral]

Do I want you to know I'm sitting in these bushes, waiting for you to think it's safe so you'll sit your fat ass down before I strike? :p

[safe anchor]

then this doesn't sort out the problem of mix packing or massing together in a group then does it as now a group of steggos can hang out with utahs but carnos cant hang out with steggos

[golden coral]

If I have a visual indicator of "I'm being stressed out cause something is nearby", then I would be worried, would I not?

[distant anvil]

Well legacy has lag spikes that tell you when something is in the area and still people get ambushed all the time.

[golden coral]

Assuming most people know that's what they mean. Better example would be ai spawning when you're just a touch hungry.. :p

And trust me, I hate that so much. Nothing says "Don't go to this lake, it's dangerous" as an ava running around at it. Thanks for ruining my chances of ambushing something, you stupid ai xD

[safe anchor]

go near the water in update 3 and get stress when you are near water oh must be a croc nearby better move on quick

[golden coral]

And yes, people get ambushed anyway, because they're.. well.. dumb :p

See that croc video for example of that, no offense to any QA in said video.. :p

[distant anvil]

You're right Synergy in that it's not a hard stop and I'm not for that. It's a passive stop to make it less optimal of a gameplay stratgey. Because limited group sizes for what's in game now pretty much does nothing which I hope we both can agree.

[golden coral]

True, right now group limits only mean you can't talk in group/see their names, and it's really only the names I woud say is an issue, since local chat is a thing.

[safe anchor]

they didnt know the croc was there just saw the body and oh look food but they became the food lol

[distant anvil]

I do think to game balance that overpacking and mixpacking are critical flaws and need some form of fix. Much better than what we have now.

[safe anchor]

its not different from legacy currently

just a smaller map so you find people easier

[golden coral]

Yes.. but.. :p

[distant anvil]

Oh don't get me wrong I think this is a critical issue with Legacy just as much with Evirma. It ruins the immersion/survival nature of the game for many I believe.

[golden coral]

Anyway, yes, mixing and overpacking are issues, and should be handled, but they should be handled with harsh survival demands rather than some sort of stress system I think, at least primarily.

[safe anchor]

its always going to be a problem

[golden coral]

Return food values to start of patch 2 or what it was, and you'll not see even 3 adult carnos very often, or so I've been told.

[safe anchor]

stress sounds good on paper but has too many ways to abuse it

[distant anvil]

That type of mentality makes me sad. Why accept the problems and not try new ways to fix them? I get that new things are scary and this system would take time away from others just like anything would but it's a big problem.

[tender hatch]

They have accepted the problems

And they have been trying new ways

[golden coral]

There are both ways to abuse it, and more importantly, ways to get around with discord and stuff I suspect. Since BoB has such a system, I think I can use that to say that yes, the people there, especially the clans, can and do work around the system. Does it slightly mitigate stuff, no doubt. Does it actually fix stuff, not really.

[tender hatch]

The bugs and issues are still going to be a problem, because patching bugs can easily lead go new issues if the time comes.

(Sorry, just tuned in)

[safe anchor]

well there isnt a good way too look at it if i wanna play with my friend he/she is a carno im a utah im still going to play with them because why not

am i going to care about stress and stuff no im just going to play the game with my friend

[grave veldt]

stress system aye?

[distant anvil]

Fair point Synergy, if a player wants to do that they will. I'm just trying to avoid the massive issues with things like large Apex herds.

[grave veldt]

diets can help with that

[safe anchor]

^

[grave veldt]

for both sides actually

[safe anchor]

depending how they do diets

[grave veldt]

certain herbis need their own plants and carnivores need to eat a specific dinosaur(s)

yea how they do diets is

up to them

hopefully its a great mechanic

[distant anvil]

That should help Mixpacking.

[grave veldt]

mixpacking is hard to do when u have ur own food to eat and when u got to eat a certain herbivore as a carni less grp members is more food for you

[distant anvil]

Overpacking I guess it would be helpful depending on scarcity of the resources.

[grave veldt]

hopefully diets change many things in the game

diets and gore are gonna be major

apart from fractures, UI, perks, and elders

[distant anvil]

You make great points, so I'm going to optimistically await to see this system.

[grave veldt]

yea hopefully diets change things it should

as long as they do it right

[distant anvil]

It definately can change things for the better and I hope it does.

[raven egret]

Stress system is a great idea, i would also connect it to other things

[alpine plover]

stress system is not the greatest system

[dark hill]

What do you mean with stress system?

[alpine plover]

look at BoB

[dark hill]

What is BoB?

[alpine plover]

Beast of Bermuda

or Bob the Builder

[dark hill]

Ok thank you.

[slim dragon]

Bob the Builder's stress system is great

[alpine plover]

no

it's alright but not great

[slim dragon]

But I doubt a stress system would work well in The Isle anyway

[sinful cove]

Cant you literally bring people to the brink of death purely by stress in BoB

[fossil lagoon]

!bal

[sinful cove]

Excuse you sir

[grave veldt]

u can literally stand next to someone and eventually they'll die of discomfort

lol

[drowsy shell]

Takes a fair amount of time to stress folks to death in that game.
Gotta be at 0 comfort for the damage tics from intim hunting to really matter, and for the big bulky bois in that game with 4k+ hp....taking 40 damage at 15 second intervals can be neglected for a while

Then there's the matter of intim ranges changing on a per species basis. A good example being a rex...you gotta be like 1 rex length away to apply intim. This makes things dicey as you need to put yourself in that rexes killzone to apply intim

but that's not really Is balance feedback lmao. Just discussing a mechanic in a diff game at this point on my part xD

[sinful cove]

The fact alone that its possible you can stress somebody to death tho is pretty messed up lol that sounds so toxic

[grave veldt]

yea the fact u can literally die from stress is just

comically bad

[sinful cove]

Now i remember that jaffad vid where some dude was crying for an admin in global because he was being followed and taking stress damage. Ugh imagine that in TI lmao

[drowsy shell]

My first time experience playing bob: Why am I dying to literally nothing??

The Wind: 🔪

[sinful cove]

Nobody:

The rain in BoB: “so you have chosen death”

[modest carbon]

Stress is so abusable

[outer topaz]

Doesnt that game have neon dinosaurs and floods the entire map when it rains

Thats what I've seen and heard

[sinful cove]

Yeah its crazy

[grave veldt]

Yeah there’s things called extinction floods

Where literally the entire map gets covered in water lol

[alpine plover]

Beasts of bermuda is 3663535 times better and allways will be

[slim dragon]

Looks like a biased opinion

[lean shoal]

bob has some better aspects but its also progressing very slowly and for a game that has a fun factor revolving around balance its pretty unbalanced.

[grave veldt]

That person was spamming it yesterday but he got muted so

[alpine plover]

How's a Utah main supposed to hunt when bleeding and sitting on a rock when adult stego can just tail swipe right through the rock?

XD

[golden coral]

I believe there's something about mud, and speed, that would apply to the situation xD

[dim radish]

But to be fair, attacks shouldn't go through objects

[slim dragon]

Yeah that's true. In PC they managed to have dinos attacks not go through obstacles

[dim radish]

Let the utahs sit on rocks like ducks while barking their lungs out, they'll have to come down to hunt eventually

[daring elbow]

Shouldnt the utah be causing more damage with the pounce... seeing as the primary kill method of the utah was to pounce onto the back of another dino and use its 9-15 inch claw to cause massive wounds...the utah used to hunt gastonia (the most heavily armored dinosaur to ever be found to date and possibly to ever exist) on a regular basis...we are talking about a herb that a rex wouldnt even mess with

[sinful cove]

Why you post that in here and general feedback lol

[gaunt jackal]

It happends in real life

[sinful cove]

Not really a reason to add it

[dim radish]

^

[reef sapphire]

Mm yes, my favorite way of hunting and easily the fairest, following my prey at a distance until they keel over

[grave veldt]

[alpine plover]

@alpine plover Oye xD you were the one that swiped?! Lol. I give you kudos for putting up with me hunting ya but I wasn't hiding. Just sitting watching/stalking before striking but I had to wait for the blood screen to go away so I could see better! The rock thou should have blocked ya tail! Jeez lmao.

[limber elbow]

tail hit or not thats bs @stark knoll

[stark knoll]

ok

[limber elbow]

oh the stego is going to swing let me spin around with my super fast turn in place to tank a hit

logic at its finest

[stark knoll]

if you turn in place instead of actually moving itll likely stay a body shot

[limber elbow]

okay let me take a few steps and turn in place so its not a body shot

😐

[dusk dove]

In this case, it's all about a players play style. Finding a dino you're good at playing and then learning from experiences. If you get taken down by one utah, it's just a matter of learning from the experience and moving on.

Timing attacks right, being patient, and waiting out your opponent is a players play style that pays off 90% of the time.

[lean shoal]

yeah utah not getting 1 shot if it gets hit by stego is irritating especially with its overtuned pounce rn. at least utahs pounce will be bleed based soon.

[limber elbow]

i walked away from that fight and i also have more clips showing they just turn in place while barely moving and living

so the assumption it will register as a body shot seems unlikely to me..

[dusk dove]

A utah, is built for that, to turn in place. They're agile creatures that you have to predict the movements of

[limber elbow]

them turning to make it a tail shot is kinda goofy imagine something like an allo exploiting this mechanic stego would be at a serious disadvantage

[dusk dove]

Either way though, there's always going to be something someone doesn't like about the game.

Allo isn't built to be agile. Its a stocky boi who is gonna bleed you to death. Look at its teeth. Every dino is different in the play style and agility. You just have to find a dino that works for you.

[limber elbow]

it will prob be as agile as a carno which can do the same thing in this situation as a utah can

so i dont see ur justification

[dusk dove]

Carnos cannot turn on a dime like a utah can.

Not as fast and a lot more clumsy with turning like that

[lean lotus]

Carbos ?

[dusk dove]

Yes carbos

Shush david

[silk bone]

carbonemys the turtle

[dry badger]

If you get clipped in the tail I don't think you should die.

That seems silly.

[dusk dove]

👆

[limber elbow]

its not silly when the utah can turn hella fast just to tank a hit

[dusk dove]

That's like saying I get shot in the foot, I should die

[lean shoal]

tail tip hitbox sure. if you get spiked any further down your probably getting stuck to the spike.

[dry badger]

Yeah but we don't have that advanced locational hitboxes yet, so we made due.

[limber elbow]

making due lol

[dusk dove]

Utah's, have always been agile. That's known. Irritating yes, but you have to anticipate their play style and wait it out. You're a stego, you got an advantage over them in the fact you can take a few hits.

[lean shoal]

still love how kentros spikes work. would love to fight a pack of utahs as this thing and catch a lot of them on my tail or shoulder.

[dry badger]

I think maybe you're upset you probably shortly died after in that video, but the matter is we decided a Utah getting hit in the tail shouldn't one shot because it made sense. And felt cheap that you barely got clipped and died anyways. I don't think that will change.

[limber elbow]

bet

[dry badger]

I mean if you killed them good job lmao, but still. I disagree respectfully.

[dusk dove]

In this instance you're saying that if you shoot them in a foot because they dodged, they should die.

Thats unbalanced imo

[silk bone]

would slow them down though kek

[dusk dove]

It does damage, but it won't one shot them

[grave veldt]

it takes 9 shots to the tip of the tail, 2 shots to the base of the tail, 1 to the head and body

[lean shoal]

i do still want the healing cap to take place at lower intervals. if you get hit once and take 50% of your hy you should only heal to 70% of your max hp. if your hit again you should only heal to 40% ect. it should be based on % of missing health not a 90% hp cap.

[dry badger]

I think they're saying they should die if they got hit in the first place, which normally I'd agree, but location damage is in for a reason and it's to create tention like THIS. "What if I get hit in the head, oh shoot I got hit in the tail I barely lived" Is the intent behind that mechanic.

[dusk dove]

Exactly

That's what I love about it

[golden coral]

Except it's not "barely lived" :p

[dry badger]

Hm?

[golden coral]

Utah "tailhit" does 5% damage from a stego

[grave veldt]

it takes 9 hits to kill one utah if u get the tail hit so yea

[golden coral]

That's not "barely lived", that's "oh, I got tickled"

[grave veldt]

^

[limber elbow]

9 hits?

[dusk dove]

If I get smacked a few times with a stego tail as a utah I'll have barely survived

[limber elbow]

if it take 9 hits thats bs

[golden coral]

And stego tailhit kills it almost as fast as headshot from acarno

[lean shoal]

when bleed is fixed i hope the tail tip hit makes you scream as you frantically search for mud so you dont bleed a ton.

[golden coral]

OIf you get smacked a few times like that Mean, you're a bad utah

[dry badger]

Barely lived as in, inches from getting hit somewhere else mind you.

[dusk dove]

You're saying It should one shot it. Which doesn't make sense

[limber elbow]

9 hits doesnt make sense

[lament gale]

9 hits seems a bit under kill LMAO

[dusk dove]

@golden coral never said I was good.

[silk bone]

tbf im sure u could live being shot in the foot 9 times just u wouldnt be moving very much

[lean shoal]

i think 2 hits to the tip of the tail from a stego should bleed a utah out if it doesnt wallow.

[lament gale]

2/3 shot at most lol

[grave veldt]

the fact u can live a shot from a stego if u get hit in the base of the tail is crazy

[golden coral]

Fair enough. But balance is not based on people being bad so :p

[dusk dove]

Basically. Bobburger is asking for stego to be a tank that can one shot a utah no matter where it's hit.

[golden coral]

Not that I think a tailhit should oneshot, but 5% damage is .. tiny

[dry badger]

For now, I'd say it's fine without having gore or bone break mechanics in yet. Let's give it a huge disadvantage when we can.

As for now, damage? Nah.

[lament gale]

(i mean it should, but balance says otherwise)

[golden coral]

Especially when carno can kill a stego via tailbite almost as efficiently as headhits

[lean shoal]

that utah would be missing some vertebra if those spikes hit its tail.

[golden coral]

No idea why stego tail is so vunerable, that's odd as well :p

[dusk dove]

@golden coral no, balance is based on actual feasibility and playability. Making it fun, but not unbalanced so much that a stego will one shot everything

[lean shoal]

stegos tail will do bleed and damage back which is going to feel so good.

[lament gale]

i'd even argue stego should oneshot a carno lol

[grave veldt]

stego is in a pretty bad place tbh utahs in packs will destroy it and 1 carno can kill multiple stegos becuz of the tal hitbox

[silk bone]

not like stego can chase anything down

[lean shoal]

when allo is in stego should one shot carno on a body hit and force an allo to wallow.

[golden coral]

Fun is subjective, what's feasible is debatable, playable would be how good you are. My point is that you base balance on what can be done, by people who are very good at it, since they will get to that level, and if that's not balanced for, we get shit like carno "zoning" stego tail and soloing it that way.

[grave veldt]

or kill it with bleed

[dusk dove]

If you can't kill two utah's as a stego, you're gonna need to work on that. That's all I'll say on this. The argument is not valid imo and I'm not going to argue with y'all since you wanna talk in circles

[limber elbow]

@stark knoll utah turning in place hardly moving to tank a hit, "skill"

[lament gale]

doesn't help stegos attack is ass in general lol

[grave veldt]

^

[lament gale]

a jab doesn't work when everything is faster and more agile then you

[golden coral]

@dusk dove I also did not at any point argue that stego should oneshot utah on tail, the closest I said was that 5% from a tailhit from a stego on a utah is not "barely lived" in the sense of damage. Krow may have meant that in the sense of "A little closer and I would have died", but if we're talking damage, the damage is very much a "barely tickled".

[silk bone]

i will say im not a fan of the turning in place to tank hits

[lament gale]

not a fan of stego rn in general

if they give it a proper swing i'll probably be willing to mess around with it, but for now i'm not touching it

[golden coral]

So, you're not willing to actually discuss balance decisions? No one said anything about being able to do this or that, it was a question of if it should be the way it currently is or not.

[grave veldt]

stego rn is in a very rough spot ngl it cant even one shot a utah on the base of the tail and it cant one shot a carno even if it hits the head

tail hitbox makes it fodder too

[golden coral]

Yeah, stego needs a proper attack and attacks on the move that are useful, so carnos can't pull the shit they currently do :p

[limber elbow]

@dusk dove if u are bad enough to get hit by a stego as a utah in the first place u should be punished more then 5% damage

[grave veldt]

^ agreed i dont wanna say one shot for a tip of tail but

9 hits is way too much

[dry badger]

I think we're looking at it wrong, for now it's kinda silly because hitting the tail has little to no effect. Later when new mechanics are introduced we'll probably look into that. But for now, I think adjusting damage done would be contrary to why we have the locational damage in the first place.

[grave veldt]

if other mechanics change attacks maybe tip of the tail for 9 hits is fine

[lament gale]

they're just saying 9 hits is way too many to kill an animal like, 2x smaller then it lmao

3x even

[grave veldt]

yea 9 hits is still way too much tbh

[golden coral]

Yes and no, I personally think there needs to be a bigger difference in some cases, and maybe less in others. Should work on the ratio of head to tailhits and stuff perhaps Krow.

[lament gale]

doesn't need to one shot it, just doesn't need to be so many

[stark knoll]

would you want to die quickly to getting bit in the fingers?

[silk bone]

ur comparing the tail to fingers?

[lament gale]

fingers are a bit different then the animals spine LOL

[grave veldt]

lol

[limber elbow]

@stark knoll you know how important tails are right?

[golden coral]

If it's something that takes out the entire hand, it might be a problem yes. The stego tail isn't just "nicking" you, you're basically ruining the entire critters tail.

[dry badger]

I think if we look at it in the sense of, later, say, 5 updates down the road. Hitting a utah in the tail drastically reduces it's mobility, or something of the sort.
Thus making it 10x easier to kill.

[limber elbow]

if u wanna bring realism into this

[grave veldt]

agreed

[silk bone]

that would be nice krow id like that

[golden coral]

That might be interesting Krow, locational fractures please!

[lament gale]

it would be

[dry badger]

But for now adjusting the locational damage would make it harder to balance back and bounceback later.

[lament gale]

but 9 hits is still way too many LOL

[silk bone]

a slowing effect that would let u get in a big hit 🙂

[grave veldt]

locational fractures is nice

[dry badger]

^

[wintry mountain]

add cc to stego stail jab

[golden coral]

Break a stegos tail before attacking it's head

[dry badger]

Or that ^

But more damage defeats the purpose and calculations of location damage.

And sucks.

For filipe

[golden coral]

Give a proper stego swing first!

[dry badger]

lmfao

[wintry mountain]

Please

[lean lotus]

wouldn't fix anything you ass

you wouldn't be ccing on the tail

[grave veldt]

uh oh CC for stego

[dry badger]

kek

[grave veldt]

idk if that would work well

lol

[lean lotus]

it doesn't Nova's just going insane.

[dry badger]

Nova insane?

Nooooo

[golden coral]

Would be nice in other cases though, if not for tailhits

[grave veldt]

stunlock apexes to death lol

[lament gale]

LOL

[dry badger]

I think stego should have a tail sweep attack that does hard cc but lower damage.

Tbh.

But everything is a wip.

[lament gale]

the correct way to make apex herbis scary

[golden coral]

But if so, stego needs something that'll make it consider if it wants to keep swinging or not

[dry badger]

We'll get what we need to make stego not painful.

[lean lotus]

It's a tail full of spikes it shouldn't do CC, it should just hit really hard.

[dry badger]

Sweep the leg single daave

[lament gale]

well

[wintry mountain]

hitting hard can stun...

[lean lotus]

You aren't sweeping the leg you are destroying it, you aren't an anky.

[golden coral]

@dry badger Honestly, moving attacks are a neccesity I think. I get the idea of a stationary powerful swing, but it fucks stego over because of zoning.

[lament gale]

if a stego swings its tail into a dryo, shits gonna go flying

[grave veldt]

the one issue is that it doesnt hit very hard e.e it cant even one shot a carno if it hits the head

[golden coral]

Yes, can we punt smaller things please!

[lament gale]

pls lmao

[grave veldt]

lol

[dry badger]

Yeah, but we have to justify the animation haha, we can't have stego 180 turn biting like deino

[grave veldt]

but

[lament gale]

wha

[grave veldt]

wait is there a reason why stego doesnt have a 180 turn?

[golden coral]

Well no, not really what I meant, but more along legacy style I guess. The problem right now is that you can safely walk just outside my range, and "lean in", for bites.

[dry badger]

Because it's large..

[lament gale]

stego having a walking swing and a full swing is like, vital to its gameplay lol

[grave veldt]

^

[dry badger]

A walking swing or sweep would help a lot yeah.

[golden coral]

And there's nothing I can do to counter that, you'll turn out before my tail hits, especially since the swing isn't very fast, though the range is nice. But I think you can see the issue here.

[grave veldt]

how does stego not have a swing isnt that like stegos thing

[lament gale]

you'd think yeah

[grave veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/it-is-what-it-is-it-is-eet-eet-iz-iz-gif-17896182

[dry badger]

Eh, I think it's mostly, 'it just doesn't' right now kinda thing.

It's not easy to fully animate and calculate the damage of an attack.

[lament gale]

it has a full swing animation lol

[dry badger]

If the need arises, and I think it somewhat has, and will later down the road, it'll come into play.

[golden coral]

Obviously we don't want it like legacy, that swing/turn is really good, but something that would allow me to go "You're right next to me, I can.. do something to get to you", so you can't just pull the carno thing perfectly safely. And bite is only really useful vs utah, and even then I wouldn't want to "facetank" one :p

[lament gale]

like, it was one of the first things animated for stego lol

[golden coral]

Also why does the tail take so much damage for stego?

[grave veldt]

its tail multiplier is bugged

it does more then 1.0

[silk bone]

magic

[golden coral]

Ah okay, that would explain it then.

[dry badger]

Anyways, not saying it doesn't need help. It just needs to be more.. adaptable.

[golden coral]

It did seem very odd when I tested so :p

[dry badger]

@lament gale I dunno about that. I've not seen it if it does exist, then my question as to why it hasn't been implimented yet would go straight to the devs.

Shrug I don't know everything.

[lament gale]

because they wanted to give utah and carno a better chance LOL

[grave veldt]

idk wanna put in math equations here but in simple terms it would be 13 bites to kill a stego for a carno if it was 1.0, but it takes 12 max which means its multiplier has to be more then 1.0

[lament gale]

a full swing would annihilate carno and utah

[golden coral]

Such a shame QA does balance as well, since being QA comes with a lot of other stuff that's less desirable :p

[silk bone]

squishy if u did a full swing on a stegos face would it live?

[dry badger]

Balance talk is usually the most difficult. You're trying to make a realistic but fun scenario.

[grave veldt]

i think stego is so strange is because they were going for a smaller stego but they changed it to have a bigger model so it can compete in the isle

[lament gale]

balance wise probably. realistically? no

[limber elbow]

@dry badger admin ended up healing me due to unfair advantages caused by another admin (utahs getting tped back and fully grown right on top of me) resulting in the utahs backing off bc they werent getting free grows anymore

[dry badger]

EW

That's fucked.

[silk bone]

lmao

[grave veldt]

thats really fucked

[silk bone]

what server are u playing on

that has those type of admins

[grave veldt]

ZOO?

[limber elbow]

yeah zoo

[silk bone]

whats zoo?

[grave veldt]

ah ok i stopped playing that

on that server

[limber elbow]

they do free grows on the hour normally but they were in the utah pack and were clearly abusing powers

[grave veldt]

must've gone on the head admins stream for free grows

[golden coral]

@dry badger I think the biggest issue is that it seems like balance testing isn't done thoroughly enough, or done in a "proper" manner. Maybe there should be a secondary balance team focused on that.

[grave veldt]

maybe there should be a QA team for balance specifically

[golden coral]

There should be, or rather, QA should be doing QA job, and balance team should be doing balance.

[grave veldt]

^

[safe anchor]

balance is looked at trust

[lean lotus]

Hyper...

[compact bolt]

[golden coral]

?

[safe anchor]

if you think balance isnt looked at then you are very wrong

[sonic flame]

dangit krow lol, for a more serious post, balance is looked at by the whole of QA, making a smaller balance team would mean less voices being heard

less people on a team means a higher chance that someone's favorite gets overpowered

[golden coral]

No one said it wasn't looked at.

[safe anchor]

] Erik Eden: There should be, or rather, QA should be doing QA job, and balance team should be doing balance. QA do many things put it that way 🤬

[sonic flame]

The big issue is where do these balance people come from?

[golden coral]

Nor that it had to be a smaller balance team, just a specific team for balance. And that said team maybe should test and work in a different manner.

[grave veldt]

just offering a suggestion

[golden coral]

Yes, I said I think QA and Balance should be two different teams. I said nothing about balance not being looked at, or that the team would be a certain size or anything else.

[grave veldt]

wait how many people are on the QA team

[golden coral]

Same place as all the QA I'm guessing? :p

[sonic flame]

It would be an unpaid volunteer position like QA is already, but basically everyone who wanted to help is already QA

So moving them to balance means QA takes more time

[silk bone]

im surprised there would be bias at all

[sonic flame]

If you divide QA, lets say in half, that would double the amount of time ad hoc takes, and you have half as many voices going to balance

[grave veldt]

bias will always exist

[silk bone]

true i should reword what i said

allowing that bias to have influence should be what i should say

[sonic flame]

Everyone is biased a little bit lol, it's not usually as bad as like "My favorite animal needs to be invincible" but more like "I don't know do we need to reduce this damage?"

[golden coral]

I think you're perhaps not quite understanding what I mean this team should do. Of course, since I don't know how you test, maybe you are doing what I would suggest. But testing needs to be done with proper survival thinking in mind. It needs to be done with "How can I abuse the system to win" in mind. See carno tailbiting. This needs to happen in balance testing. You need to spend three hours on a hunt just to see how well that handles. And so on.

[sonic flame]

more people putting forward their thoughts decreased the influence of bias

[golden coral]

Balance isn't just numbers and outright fights.

It's just as much "How can I screw this shit over" and "I can be patient and starve you out" things.

[dry badger]

Assuming we don't.

[sonic flame]

Yeah in general survival stuff is taken into account a lot more than outright facetanking

[golden coral]

@dry badger I just said "I don't know", but yes, considering the results, I can't say it seems like you do. Why do we have carno tailbiting stegos if you do?

[sonic flame]

however some things don't occur during balance testing, like trying to bite a stego on the tail seems like a prime recipe for getting stabbed in the face, and the people playing stego could pretty easily take em out

[golden coral]

Exactly, it seems that way

But that's just my point

[dry badger]

#401464048610312195 message

[silk bone]

some things get past them like tailbiting

[sonic flame]

Since stego never struggled in the many many tests, it seemed fine, a month after update 2 people figured out how to break the system

[dusk dove]

can't take every play style into account...but we certainly try

[golden coral]

Of course, so my suggestion is that maybe there could be other ways of doing it.

[grave veldt]

and they broke it badly like stego is a waste of time rn

[golden coral]

To be fair Krow, my example is not a bug :p

[sonic flame]

Well there is also the issue of you all don't see the balance changes as they roll out, and you don't get the thought processes that goes into deciding if a change should be made

[dry badger]

laughs in cyberpunk Fact is we can't catch it all and yes that means balancing as well. But balancing is looked at.

[dry badger]

^

Yeah.

[golden coral]

And I did not say you could Mean, I'm saying that maybe the way you're doing it is not perfect

And that's why I say what I do

[grave veldt]

the only bug on the tail is the multiplier if thats even a bug

[sonic flame]

So to the community it seems like we just flat out ignored the stego tail bite thing, when in reality it never worked when we tried it

[golden coral]

I'm not saying you're not doing your best or not trying hard, I'm saying maybe there are better ways to do it to get better results at times

[silk bone]

the beta thing they plan to do is good for balance i think

[sonic flame]

I mean more people will always improve the results of testing, but dividing the QA team isn't the way I would go about it

[dry badger]

There probably are better ways. But that's kinda up to hypno.

[safe anchor]

Hypno does the balance and we as QA assist with it and give our input

[golden coral]

And maybe that's an issue. But what can I say, I know what happens in survival, I know what happens when you run into people who know their shit down pat, who have the patience to follow me for three hours just to kill me. And so on.

[sonic flame]

Remember that mostly everyone in QA are veteran players, we've all been there and we do try to take these things into account

[dry badger]

I think, why we're opening the public beta kinda dresses this issue too. @golden coral Because you're not wrong. Things can be adresses differently.

[golden coral]

I don't know Hyper, veteran players.. if you say so. Also veteran does not mean good player to be fair, or smart.

[sonic flame]

It doesn't mean anything other then been playing for a while

[grave veldt]

experience does count so i cant take that away

[lament gale]

so why make a point to say you're all veterans

lmao

[sonic flame]

but the fact that they've been playing for a while means they've encountered many different things throughout the game, and can use that to inform their choices

[golden coral]

@dry badger That's possible. I'm not trying to say you guys are doing a bad job or anything, just that to me it has seemed like some things haven't been taken into balance, or have been outright missed. And yeah, some of these things can only be found if you set your mind to it. Like the stego thing. Who would think to do that really? But still, we have it, because someone was determined to "break" things. :p

[sonic flame]

they know for example, what happenes when an animal has poor stam regen, even if it has a lot of stamina to start with, you get para

[safe anchor]

what dont you like about the balance then?

this is what the channels for

[golden coral]

@sonic flame Para has a lot of issue, the stam regen being one of the least honestly :p Also legacy but :p

[dusk dove]

[sonic flame]

Knowing what didn't work in Legacy, and why it didn't work is important to inform what not to do in Evrima

for example, don't make an animal like Legacy Cera or Pachy

[dry badger]

Eh. Legacy is a non issue. But yeah as far as stego having low damage attack vs a tail, I just think we need to impliment more mechanics for either Stego, or wait until we get bone break or locational debuffs in the game.

[golden coral]

@safe anchor I've been trying to talk about balance testing, rather than a specific decision. Are there things I disagree with when it comes to the balance itself. You bet. But that's not my main point here. My main point is that it seems, at times, that there are things not balanced for, or accounted for.

@sonic flame Honestly, give cerato 90% bleed resist, and it would be fine. All that's needed really :p

It didn't need both the health and the bleed debuff :p

[silk bone]

dilo could of still bled it out though erik

[safe anchor]

we will miss things its going to happen

[silk bone]

even if it took alot more time

[golden coral]

@safe anchor If you want a specific case, stego stationary attack is an issue. Sine you can "zone" it and it's very hard to do much about that.

[stark knoll]

and we're working to address these things. we cant add a moving attack on our own

[sonic flame]

To be fair the stego can counter this by just baiting in the foe

[stark knoll]

take that up with the devs, we have as well

[golden coral]

@silk bone Possibly, but I would imagine it would need more bites, though that could come down to the heal rate too, and it would give the cera the ability to move and act, and force the dilo around.

[safe anchor]

like get the end of your tail bitten and die from it? is what you mean?

[sonic flame]

which is what happened mostly during balance testing, just standing still until the enemy over commits and you bonk them

[silk bone]

the dilo heals ceras bleed easy and eventually heals the point where it can take another bite and this repeats

[golden coral]

@safe anchor No. The fact that you can stay just outside range, "lean in" and be safe, because I can't move with you and attack, unlike bites or other attacks.

[frosty heron]

Glad to know the QA is going the right way with balance

[safe anchor]

so you want steggo to be able to move and swing and do x amount of damage?

[grave veldt]

honestly yea that would help a lot

a lot of other ppl want it too

[golden coral]

@stark knoll I did not say you could add something on your own. I said it feels like you're not neccesarily taking every tactic, strategy, and stuff into account. Hence why I suggested a separate balance team and all.

[sonic flame]

lmao if I had a penny for every time someone said give stego a swing I'd be rich

[golden coral]

Well, stego should swing, stationary or not, jabbing is just weird anyway :p

[sonic flame]

Agree

[golden coral]

@safe anchor Sort of? It's hard to put in words, but I'd show you ingame if I could.

[stark knoll]

which leads back into what hypernova said, splitting the team would slow down everything including balance

[sonic flame]

The solution here is more people

We just need more people in QA

[frosty heron]

There's any other requirements apart of being +18?

[sonic flame]

not really no

[stark knoll]

sign an nda

[sonic flame]

google account is basically required

[frosty heron]

Alright

[grave veldt]

who doesnt have a google account at 18 lol

[golden coral]

Possibly, but I think cera two or threeshots a dilo. Not something you want to get into a fight with. And after the first bite, the cera would know the dilo is there. So perfect bleed resist + a bit better heal maybe, and it would most likely do pretty well against a solo dilo, especially at day.

[sonic flame]

more people than you would think

[grave veldt]

damn

[silk bone]

it 2 shots

[golden coral]

@sonic flame And I would apply if it wasn't for me finding the NDA potentially questionable, as well as me not thinking it makes me a good QA if I "only" want to do the balancing and not jump up and down 10K times to see if jump breaks.

[sonic flame]

It's less jump up and down 10k times are more so see what happens if you backflip off a waterfall

[grave veldt]

interesting

[golden coral]

... Okay, but you do get my point I think :p

I do not feel like it's proper to apply for QA if I only want to work on the balancing aspect

[sonic flame]

Yeah, the bug testing isn't as bad as you would think tho, I joined mainly to have a say in balance

you'd be surprised how fun doing the other stuff is

[golden coral]

Otherwise I would help out, why do you think I want a secondary balance team. That I would join, though I also do think a dedicated balance team would be a good idea, for reasons stated above.

[safe anchor]

If you are 18+ join Qa and help out if you are interested why not try it and see if you like it

[sonic flame]

Yea you can leave at any time as well

[golden coral]

Maybe it isn't Hyper, I honestly don't know what it's like to be QA, I just figured it didn't.. sound right you know :p

[sonic flame]

tl;dr join QA, give it a week, you may or may not enjoy it, tho I think you would find it more fun than you think

we need more people lol

[slim dragon]

Hey, sorry for jumping from nowhere into the discussion, I've been interested in applying for QA for some time but I don't have much free time. Does that counts ?

[grave veldt]

100 QA members imagine

[safe anchor]

join it find out what do you have to lose other then time?

[sonic flame]

Qa takes as much time as you can afford to give

[golden coral]

Alright fine, I will apply then if you think it's acceptable, and see if I get in! You DM Hypno right?

[sonic flame]

Yea shoot him a DM

[golden coral]

But if things go bad, I'm blaming you two!

[sonic flame]

understandable

[stark knoll]

qa doesnt have like, a quota, we're still volunteers after all. yup, just dm hypno and ask for an application c:

[slim dragon]

Thanks, I might apply too then

[dry badger]

Don't join unless you plan on putting in work and time.

[dusk dove]

if you join just to say 'i get to play the new things' save yourself some time...and don't

[dry badger]

Yes it's volunteer but you're volunteering to work.

[sonic flame]

If you are joining to help make the game not suck tho

[dry badger]

^

[sonic flame]

[slim dragon]

Nah, that's not the reason. I'd like to participate more actively to the game development than just giving feedback, and applying to QA is the best I can do

[dry badger]

But as far as hopping out whenever you need to yes that's your prerogative.

[golden coral]

Nah, I would join for the balancing, or well, apply for that. Of course I will put in the work neccesary if I get accepted, it's more that I would have, well, things I do want to do, and things I might not want to do but would do because it's still part of the job. @dry badger

[slim dragon]

And I'm usually pretty good at randomly finding bugs no one else gets

[dry badger]

Well you obviously care.

[safe anchor]

if you care join and find out what Qa is about an if you dont like it then you can just leave it no harm done other then the loss of time

[silk bone]

im not 18 😦

[sonic flame]

Then for now just do your best with the feedback channels and community bug reports

[hollow canyon]

The community ignored it up until the point where a group of people who have a private practice server figured out how to do it and how to strategise killing Stegos based on that approach. Things like these are currently found only by certain people in the playerbase who quite frankly speaking don't have any business sharing them with the rest(they might and they did to a certain extent but from a pragmatic point of view they're better off keeping all of this a secret). This should absolutely not be a thing and it makes comments like "If you can't kill two utah's as a stego, you're gonna need to work on that." just outright disrespectful.

As for the comment about people in the QA being veterans. Are we talking Evrima or Legacy veterans? Because those are two completely different things and the skills from one are not transferable to the other. And yes there are Evrima veterans and people who are already really good at it. You can see them if you play the game on a regular basis on the public branch and it's really obvious when you're up against one of the good players with a tonne of experience. You can't expect a normal player who learns just off their experience in survival where they risk their dinosaur every time they get into a fight to "get good" against people that can freely practice stuff on sandbox-like servers that are available only to them.

Also - there should be far more clarity as to how the game works in general. It shouldn't be down to the people in the playerbase to figure out how a mechanic works. This isn't really a comment directed at QA but more so the devs but we shouldn't be guessing how exactly bleed, locked health and locational work. All those should be publicly known and available to every person in the playerbase who cares to look them up, instead of having a small portion of the playerbase who can test them out knowing all this data while the rest just hopes for the best.

[silk bone]

they could do little videos on their yt channel explaining each mechanic and dinosaur fully

although a tutorial would make more sense

[hollow canyon]

I don't really mean just a tutorial - we should have a list of information about each attack and each locational area on every animal. Could be in the character profile but all these information should be available to everyone and anyone. You should know how much damage you're doing with each attack and you should know how much damage you receive by being hit in each area. As for youtube videos - those should probably outline how each mechanic works exactly and in detail. Hopefully now that Seiza is a part of the dev team perhaps we might get some more informative pieces of media regarding the game.

[sacred zodiac]

@ember ivy why would they do that. utah already dies from the damage in one hit

[sinful cove]

Baby utahs are fast as fuck and hide easy lmao

Run into the woods and no herbi is gonna kos you unless you basically let em

[sacred zodiac]

thats what i thought

until i got KOS'd by any and everything near me

[spiral girder]

I also feel damage on steggo shouldn't be raised. Full steggos are already a handful to deal with as is. Combat shouldn't be 1 shot unless it's a full grown vs sub adult or lower; 2-3 shot combat makes it more enjoyable for both ends (obviously 1 shot head shots are fun). However utahs are fast enough to get away from steggos. If they're killing you it's because you got too close and weren't being careful enough. They stomp loudly and cannot keep up with even juvie utahs' agile movements.

[sharp isle]

Im up for keeping the stego powerful herbs should be more powerful than preds i mean the hippos more dangerous than a lion. and a giraffe can kill a lion with a single kick. Buffolow can stamp and gore wolves to death Carnivores should be using sneaky moved and not just running in and 1 shotting anything. Most canivores should only be making a kill in 1 in every 10 hunts on average.

[frosty heron]

1/10 yeah of course make kill a Single herb as a pack a Boss fight, pretty balanced...

[alpine plover]

For utah a tail swipe should be a one shot, however for something like carno I feel one swipe would fatally wound you

[sinful cove]

Damage on stego definitely needs a raise when bigger predators come out or it'll be washed. Carno shouldn't even be hunting stego when more preds come out, it is supposed to hunt small game so a thag hit to the body or head should definitely end it once stego's intended pairings are out

[modest carbon]

For now, stego is placed fine, but definitely should be reevaluated if larger carnivores are added

[sinful cove]

Not really a case of “if”, it's when. It should definitely receive future buffs or it won't be worth growing

[modest carbon]

Then when

[sinful cove]

???? In future updates?? What kind of question is that lmao

Do you think there will never be playable allo, alberto, acro, rex, giga, and other things that would stomp stego in its current state where it is hunted by a psuedo mid like carno?

[grave veldt]

stego is in a pretty bad state rn im not even gonna sugar coat it

[modest carbon]

No as in, instead of if, when. Not really a question just correcting myself, apologies

when more carnivores are added, stego can be reevaluated. But as of right now, it's not top priority

[indigo turtle]

the idea of game balance being broken down into % chance of victory belittles and demeans the complexity of pvp in the game. From what I've seen evrima's combat is shaping up to be much more nuanced and intricate compared to what legacy offers. Ideally I think it'd be fair for all playables of similar stature/size to duke it out, having their own strengths and weaknesses to deal with.

which includes apex carnis, all should have a fair shot with smart gameplay, rather than just a basic 70/40 rex kill giga, thats just bad game design imo

[sinful cove]

imo giga and rex should be relatively evenly matched and rely solely on the situation, who lands the best hits or who gets the jump on the other

[grave veldt]

its a 50/50 basically

[sinful cove]

they are both animals designed tobe able to take on others their size or larger

[grave veldt]

cant believe the guy in feedback said spino should be at a disadvantage lol

[sinful cove]

giga with sauropods, rex with edmontos and the like, but as far as i know neither are really designed around hunting other large theropods, so an even match seems fair

well dondi did say rex would likely win in an all out fight with spino, it is supposed to play on the defensive in that fight

but i dont think a good spino should be losing to a shit rex

that would be dumb

[grave veldt]

wow holy shit 70/30 going for rex vs spino

thats so shitty lol

should be 50/50

spino trying to run around would probably die

[sinful cove]

if they are designed to skew their pairups in favour of one so heavily it will just screw over good players

[grave veldt]

if it stays defensive it'll be fine

[slim dragon]

Evrima spino should definitely have the upper hand against a rex in combat, even on land. Since it can't run away and well, basic balance.

[sinful cove]

If it is semi aquatic like it supposedly will be then being at a disadvantage on land isnt too big of a deal, since it would encourage spino players to stay om their biome

Though our spino will look like shit in the water with the model it has, supposedly its still supposed to be semi

[thick echo]

if only we got this lad . Art by Milkshake Neck btw

[sinful cove]

Would definitely be an improvement over the lame and uninspired spinosaurus rex we are getting

[thick echo]

would love to see a mod that overhauls current spino, maybe make it a new playable in general

[sinful cove]

A mod that fixes spino, anky and other models mmmmm

[slim dragon]

This thing is beautiful
Except the colors, they make it look like a marine animal

[alpine plover]

Irl spino is a fisher, not a powerhouse

[thick echo]

I think there could be a really healthy balance for a fictionalized more realistic spino. Essentially make it a more defensive animal that doesn't usually try and fight things if it doesn't need to, but it will try and take down animals that try and cross rivers thanks to its superior swimming capabilities if it is hungry enough

[alpine plover]

So actually why not restructure it that the point of spino is to be an aquatic dinosaur and not something fighting rexes, because, honestly speaking, a spino should not stand a chance against a rex, even irl

Nor would it stand a great chance either against it's fellow giant theropod Carcharodontosaurus

[sinful cove]

Yeah it was super wasteful that they didnt make this unique theropod an aquatic apex and instead decided 2 terrestrial apexes predators wasn't enough so they ruined spino

[alpine plover]

So it stayed away from them by usually being downstream in rivers

It could also get away with scavenging kills, and maybe hunting smaller dinosaurs.

[thick echo]

eh I think it could deal some decent damage with its claws if it had to stand its ground, but it would tend to try and stay away from them

[sinful cove]

If people want to stomp around on land getting in fights on an apex they can pick rex or giga, literally 0 reason to turn spino into a jp abomination

[thick echo]

rex or giga you mean

[alpine plover]

If you want a terrestrial fishing apex, take a look at Rudy from Ice Age. While irl baryonyx is not the biggest spinosaur, its cousin Suchomimus is a good bet for a giant apex tackling fisher

And you can simply upsize it, following the 12-13 meter suchomimus hypothesis.

[sinful cove]

Oops ya meant rex or giga lol

[alpine plover]

No I mean actually upsizing Suchomimus to take place of Spinosaurus

The type specimen is a subadult

[sinful cove]

There should be no need to do that really, also suchomimus isnt a swimmer either. They took spinosaurus who is a very unique theropod with his swimming adaptions and turned him into baryonix rex, the niche a real spino s/woulda had can't be replaced by upsized sucho

[tender prairie]

damn that spino looks badass while actually also looking like the fisher bro

[hollow canyon]

Even a 12-13m Suchomimus wouldn't be that big. The animal is simply very long and gracile in its build. I also don't think Spinosaurus should be outright moved into its irl niche. It would be really nice if we got the Spinosaurus posted above instead of the one we're actually getting but well... I guess you can't have everything.

[grave veldt]

i wanted a cool anky

but look what happened

hopefully as long as the gameplay of the dinosaur is true to its name i'll be fine

[grave veldt]

dont add venom to troodon

try putting this is balance feedback if u want

think thats a cool idea

at least after reading it

wait u should rephrase it

the suggestion

[alpine plover]

pls make the game balanced

[modest carbon]

Ohhh ok, what if instead of base dmg if you run out of stam it did bleed?

I'm just lookin for like a reason that the player has some sort of control, and it's not like just crazy damage like utah pounce, ya know?

[cloud urchin]

I saw we were talking about grazing

[nocturne zenith]

That grazing suggestion has been reposted like 10 times

[cloud urchin]

And 10 times more it will be reposted.

[spiral girder]

Dunno why but the 1000 miles song popped in my head except it went "And I will post 1000 times and I will post 1000 more... " XD

[cloud urchin]

I personally was thinking the Mummy

Oh Ah Med Ra

God of Gods

We have live today

We shall live again

[spiral girder]

Lol

[cloud urchin]

In many new forms we shall post my idea for grazing.

[tender hatch]

@cloud urchin Just want to say, your feedback is also a general feedback as it is a balance feedback. So you can probably post it in general feedback and get more checks since it seems people barely check balance feedback lol

[slim dragon]

The goal of feedback isn't to get check
It is to show a message to the devs

[tender hatch]

Well yes, but if you get X'ed, it's a bad idea which probably won't get used. Checks means the community approves the idea, which makes it more likely to be recommended to the devs by QQ.

QA

[slim dragon]

I already had this discussion in another channel, and yes, reactions do give a small info about if an idea is liked or not, but it is really not representtive of the community's opinion. Besides, I believe QA members are mature enough to make up their own opinion of what's good and what isn't. And they do read balance and ai feedback, maybe more than general feedback.

[umbral inlet]

My balance suggestion got voted down, so im going to modify the suggestion and repost.

if ppl can read it again and change vote if you like the newer suggestion.

[umbral inlet]

Ok so I’m gonna need to hear some why’s for the downvote of my suggestion. Are these legit technical downvotes or just “it’s been this way and I’m comfortable with it” downvotes?

Or maybe it’s just “I like to tail ride and take the easy way to a kill, rather than actually going for the throat”?

[stark knoll]

you should separate the two suggestions

[stuck shoal]

You put an innocuous suggestion with a counter-culture one.

Downvotes will happen.

[sinful cove]

Have you seen the mouths on some herbis? Have you ever gotten bitten by a horse? Just because it eats plants doesn't mean its bite is harmless

Stego's would obviously be mediocre but look at the teeth on pachy, look at the beaks on ceratopsians. Ceratopsians can snap limbs with those things

You want to nerf teno's tail slam and make herbi bites entirely useless

Because he eats plants these freak nouth daggers should deal papercut levels of damage hm

[umbral inlet]

but i hear you and agree, thats why i think it should do some damage. and i think some herbis with powerful, dangerous jaws should do more damage. but, my thing is, when i COMPARE a herbis mouth to a carnis mouth, and bite force... i think carnis should usually do way more damage per bite.

@ruby merlin

[alpine plover]

I mean to be fair a stegos bite would barely even make an allo flinch

[jolly osprey]

The tail makes up for it. But yeah, a herbs mouth isn’t entirely meant for biting things offensively unless their anatomy allows it. The modern hippo being a prime example.

Herbivorous in nature, but I fear those jaws way more than a lion’s.

Triceratops is another great example. Paleontologist consider its ‘bite’ to be a great offensive weapon. It’s no Rex bite, obviously, but they’d hurt.

[alpine plover]

Surely so, I mean if a stego bit, for example, a dilo it would still inflict pain alongside a wound. It wouldn't outright kill it like a jab with it's tail, but it would deal significant damage.

I believe some 2016 studies stated the stegos bite was actually decently powerful.

[umbral inlet]

Right but, inflicting a nasty wound from a beak is quite different to a bite from dozens of serrated teeth. A beak bite might annoy a carno. But right now, the stego does as much bite damage as a Utah raptor (130 fir both according to wiki). That’s ridiculous. The size of the mouths are important factors too, and look at those mouths!

[sinful cove]

Stego is also bigger than a utah so its weight is behind the bite, the weight would partially make up for the lack of teeth

Getting pinched by a 6 ton animal doing as much (minus bleed) as a utahraptor isn't really something to cry about

Besides, a single bleedless utah bite level attack is pretty null to the things that are supposed to hunt stego in the future anyway

[umbral inlet]

You’re looking at this from a gamer, gameplay, numbers and values POV. Dont. Think about it as a comparison between two structures. A tiny mouth that’s not capable of opening very wide, also creates a comparatively small wound by necessity. Sure it could have a lot of bite force. Potentially even MORE bite force. But the comparison is literally like comparing a “bite” from a pair of scissors to a “bite” from a toe nail clipper. Potentially you could have the exact same “bite” force, with far less weight or mass behind the scissors, and yet, the scissors will always do more damage, because the structure and size of the “jaws” are different.

[warm mesa]

Man, I like the tail damage suggestion but that seems like something that would give Utah an even better matchup against stego considering how they dodge their attacks by turning around and flicking their tails at the stego

[lean shoal]

yeah thats the only issue with it, gives small pack predators a massive undeserved advantage.

[umbral inlet]

It would also give every other predator as well as every other prey an advantage, in that tail biting would no longer be a viable way to make a kill. You would have to go for vital spots. And since everyone would benefit from the enhanced tactical depth, no one would have an advantage.

I’ve seen stegos getting damaged by bites to their spikes. That’s just ridiculous. The tail is still a target for making kills and that makes no sense. Go for the throat! Also, the tail would still be vulnerable to considerable bleed damage. Spike a tail, and the Dino could start losing a lot of blood very quickly.

[cloud urchin]

I'm confused, are you replying to @umbral inlet or me? Because, for me, Utahs flicking their tails at Stego isn't a problem.

[warm mesa]

@umbral inlet

[cloud urchin]

Ah. Thx

[umbral inlet]

Oh I just thought of another thing: Utah’s basically have no way to attack a smart stego in the trees, or in a herd, regardless of whether their tail is a vital area. So there’s no serious advantage for them. For me, it doesn’t matter if the tactics change and evolve because of the proposed change, as long as it doesn’t make the experience unrealistic. So I’m ok with the tail turning doing even less vital damage, as long as the Utah is still paying for taking a tail hit with a broken tail, and a bleeding tail. Sure it will survive, but maybe the fractured tail reduces its maneuverability until it’s healed. That mechanic would be totally in line with reality, as speedy dinos and animals use their tails to help maneuver.

[crystal wharf]

found the carno main

[crystal wharf]

not dr mikaeru, the dude in #balance-feedback

[lament cloak]

oh my bad

he is complaining about the only matchup in the game that is actually balanced lmao

[crystal wharf]

literally the only animal carno doesnt destroy outright and he's complaining that its too op... mhm

[alpine plover]

just move carno up to apex its CLEARLY underpowered..

[umbral inlet]

Carno is not under powered and it’s not optimally balanced. Case in point: carno players almost intuitively use charge to catch up to or run away from prey or enemies. Hell I do it too. Because it’s almost as if the mechanic is there begging to be used. But, it shouldn’t be use that way, it’s an offensive ability not a locomotion feature. If anything, the carnos charge needs to be nerfed. Not the damage, that’s good, but the stamina drain needs to be radically increased, and the turning radius or range or whatever radically reduced to maybe 3 degrees in each direction while in a charge. More than those few degrees of course correction, and the charge is cancelled. Having played both Utah and carno, I think the Utah’s pounce cost is well balanced. The carnos charge cost and trajectory needs to be similarly balanced.

[warm mesa]

the charge is fine, just nerf carnos damage slightly to promote smaller game hunting due to not having as high health or power as a cerato or allo, as well as giving it an inbetween evrima and legacy turn radius.

[sinful cove]

While the skin system will probably make hiding as hypsi way easier, the spit def needs some help

Also i hope they make him a better climber once herrera is in and there are actual climbing mechanics but i'm probably wishing for too much

[warm mesa]

well thats more probable than update 3 releasing this month

[sinful cove]

[worthy fossil]

give carno thiccer thighs to balance my thirst

[umbral inlet]

Charge is not fine. I can charge almost unlimited number of times if I use my charge judiciously. This is OP imo. As a Utah, I cannot pounce an unlimited number of times if I use my pounce judiciously. As a carno, I should have to be just as judicious with my alt ability as the teno and the Utah have to be with theirs. I think the case is very clearly made, that stamina wise, the carno charge needs balancing. And as for the turn radius, that DEFINITELY needs some nerfing. I can turn in a charge pretty much just as tightly as I can turn while in a regular sprint. That’s ridiculous. The degree to which any creature can turn in a charge should be fairly minimal, otherwise, combined with the comparatively low stamina drain, the ability is intuitively going to be used to get away or catch up, as an extra speed boost. I don’t like feeling overpowered like this. I want the satisfaction of winning because I managed my stam better and cuz I out thought and out maneuvered my enemy. Not cuz I have OP abilities.

[warm mesa]

I agree but, the charge drains your stamina quicker than running lol (though it should drain it more)

[umbral inlet]

Yes I’m aware, and I agree, it needs to drain it more. That’s the central idea I’m thinking about.

[spice forge]

I think Utahs need to be buffed because the dryo are too hard to catch, even if you wait untill your 50% growth, they can get away too easily and the bite force just ins't strong enough making it impossible to get food apart from a older raptor spoon feeding you or you find a smaller dryo in a wide field where you can chase him for a few minutes which is ideal situation but that's very RNG, but after that though it get's much easier.

at 50% your literally starving also so the argument of "oh well you should of hunted sooner" doesn't work because your way too slow and way too weak

[sinful cove]

Bruh lmao

[cloud urchin]

Haven't played in a while, but, can't you just wait. I thought Utah could reach near full growth without dying to starvation?

[rapid charm]

not anymore no

[thin herald]

Nope

[sinful cove]

Carno can have that fix when stego gets his. Fair trade

[gaunt jackal]

thats the point a full adult dryo should be better in some way than a fresh sub utah who barly can fend for it self yet in a good way

[spice forge]

You are forced to find food at 50% as Utah, so it is RNG then because sometimes you find bunches of Dryos that you can also take down easier due to being out-positioned and younger or just bugged out and then sometimes you don't hear or see anything or see a adult one but easily get's away and starve to death I have only had two times where this has happened but the carno can cope much better.

[lament cloak]

well then, that sucks i guess maybe it should be easy to grow a dinosaur with the most powerful ability in the game atm

[alpine sleet]

@worthy fossil Same with Utah, I get hit on the tip of the tail at half health by a Carno and DIE lol

[worthy fossil]

Theres also a issue were if you get hit at your upper tail by a stego it counts as a critical hit and one shots you. The locational damage needs to be fixed for Carno's tail

[alpine sleet]

Yes, I'm so glad that someone acknowledges this issue in EVRIMA, because this issue pains me to the soul.

[dim raft]

It’s fixed in update 3.

[livid valve]

Hell yeah that's good to know

Screw critical hits on the tippy tail by carnos

[alpine sleet]

yee

[lean shoal]

@south wing carnos charge is for small prey. its meant to disable animals you can kill before the stun runs out or outright kill them. carno is not intended to hunt large game at all. it has to hunt stego atm because theres only 2 playable carnivores in game and only 2 herbivores that can actively fight.

[south wing]

its frustrating to play the biggest carnivore in the game and die to everything bcs the balance is set to the state of the game the game will have in years .. but we live in the now and have to work with what we have .. more hp on carno atleast would be in my eyes a short term solution

[lean shoal]

carno is only a bit larger than tenonto. stego is 2x your weight rn.

carno is really broken rn actually. utahs pounce is worse but carno can easily kill anything else in the game. a good tenonto can give you hell if you mess up and a stego can still rightfully smack you.

[hollow canyon]

Carno's fine the way it is. Each one of its match ups is just fine aside from the one against Stego where it overperforms due to Stego being kind of bad for all the widely known reasons.

[lean shoal]

^

[south wing]

i understand that there went alot of work into the balancing but i played as carno 100 % ... im barely faster than utah so im barely able to hit utahs if the desync allow for that ...while utah have a pounce that does alot of bleed the carno has nothing in return the bodyslam is not rlly usefull .. if u think about utah he can use his pounce on all occaisons and enemys

[hollow canyon]

It has a 50/50 match up against the Tenonto which is probably the best match up in the game so far. It wins against Utah 1v1 and can kill an entire pack if the Utahs are bad, if they're good the Carno has to run away which is as it should be imo. Stego would be winning against Carno with the latter having a small chance of killing it if it worked as intended. Dryo and Hypsi are meme animals that I don't even consider balance-wise.

You probably need to practice a little bit more, no offense. Carno is almost 10km/h faster than a Utah, it's a noticeable difference. A good Utah can juke you for some time but if it keeps at it in the open field you will eventually get it.

Your best bet at killing Utahs is to charge them from a bit further away in a forest while they're not paying attention. You can get some easy kills that way.

Carno's definitely not underpowered as it is. I'd argue it's not really overpowered either but a lot of the people in the community would disagree with that assertion I think.

[south wing]

tbh yes maybe i should train some more before giving suggestions about the balancing but after having this expirience i wont start a new carno in this state

[hollow canyon]

There are ways to grow it rather easily just fyi. I've grown a tonne of them on Evrima and there's a sort of a way of growing it without much of a risk of dying for the most part.

[vagrant inlet]

Carno is probably the easiest animal to grow rn

Literally the only thing making it slightly difficult is the fact it’s a carnivore

[hollow canyon]

Hmm idk, I found each animal to be just as easy to grow. I just don't have any contact with players as a Tenonto/Stego and I reach full adult without any risk of dying either.

Utah might be the hardest actually

I haven't had any issues growing it solo either

[limber elbow]

i havent really seen balance issues that affect the carno negatively

[lament cloak]

carno is on the strong end of the current roster, if anything it needs a mobility nerf

[limber elbow]

if its a desync ur facing its not balance wise

[dim radish]

If anything, the carno needs a nerf in regards to the turn radius, not a buff

[hollow canyon]

I don't see any match up where Carno would be overperforming to the point where it would require a turn rate nerf. If anything it could potentially require a stamina nerf to the point where it can't keep up chasing someone for quite this long.

[dim radish]

I don't See that all. Carno can turn on a dime and it shouldn't

[limber elbow]

yeah in no world does it make sense for sprinters to sprint like that

for that long

[fallen lynx]

That belongs in bug reports.

[sinful cove]

i doubt mercs will spawn in op

[worthy fossil]

Deino is 8 hours to grow but a stego can dunk on it? lmaooo might aswell make deino a 6 hour grow instead tf?

[candid basalt]

wait its 8 hours? oh god no

[worthy fossil]

they want it to be 8 hours atm

[stark knoll]

who ever said it was 8 hours

[worthy fossil]

and theyre also saying a stego can dunk on a deino

[stark knoll]

and stego is 5

[worthy fossil]

devs have said its estimated to take 8 hours but it might change

they also said deino will be no less than 5 hours to grow

[stark knoll]

plus they said stego will dunk it on land

as a deino you never want to engage on land

[worthy fossil]

deino should be 6 hours if it cant even take on stegos like cmon thats kinda one of the big reasons why people wanted deino is to take on stegos near water

on land meaning if you lunge at a stego near water then what?

you cant pull it in

carno can kill a stego in water, deino isnt special only being able to kill a stego in water

it should beable to take on stegos near water

imagine growing for 8 hours to get smacked by a 5 hour grow

[candid basalt]

yeah i wish deino did have a way to at least pull stego into the water at the cost of a ton of stam or something

[lament cloak]

@worthy fossil make deino 6 hours and you have literally every single water source infested with giant crocodiles, make deino 8 hours and you have every other water source infested with giant crocodiles. I would rather have the latter.

[worthy fossil]

population isnt a reason to give deino a longer grow, look at stegos they can be in massive herds and theyre a 5 hour grow, it doesnt really matter if deino is a 6 hour grow theyll still take longer to grow than stegos and theyd likely be cannibalistic

[lament cloak]

deino is the undisputed apex carnivore when it gets released, and its not only semi-aquatic, its probably the most water reliable semi-aquatic that will ever come to the game. try fighting a stego in the water and see how badly you spank it

[candid basalt]

stego is garbage in the water because it cant use its tail

literally anything can kill it there

the fact deino has no way of getting it there

is what gives stego the edge

but i guess they want deino to focus on catching medium sized dinos instead of larger ones which makes sense i guess

[worthy fossil]

carno can spank stego in water almost as easy

[worthy fossil]

stego is a midtier even if not medium sized

[candid basalt]

uhh its very close in size and weight to deino lol

id say theyre similar tiers. stego may have a lower growth time because its a herbi im unsure

and it wouldnt make any sense for deino to be able to beat stego out of water. stego can just blast the hell out of its face with the thagomizers. realistically deino has no chance unless it lunges and immediately grabs its head and kills it

which wouldnt be a very balanced mechanic

[lament cloak]

and your point is?

[lament cloak]

stego is not a midtier. allo is one of the bigger mid tiers and it is 2-3 tons, compared to our stego which is 5 tons. They also don't balance the game based off of "tiers"

[candid basalt]

yeah stego has always been an apex

on the weaker side of apex but still an apex

[slow shale]

Btw
During a dev stream pretty recently (I forgot which dev)
mentioned that the reason deino would be longer than stego (or it's land counterpart in terms of strength)
is because it can swim, hell its why ptera has a 15 min longer growth than dryo despite ptera being very similar in strength (if not weaker)
Having the ability to fly or dive gives a huuge advantage at both escaping and simply avoiding land predators
so expect it to be like this with more aquatic or aerial creatures

[true patio]

@worthy fossil You do realize deinosuchus could beat stegosaurus if it's found swimming right? Also, there is a reason why the developers don't want to overpower deinosuchus and this is just me speculating: The developers don't want deinosuchus to be able to outright kill stegosaurus on land or near the water's edge because if it did, it would have become unbalanced, you see? If things are unbalanced then they are not fun, get it? Me being a stegosaurus main, I'd sure jump to deinosuchus main, and that's saying a whole lot coming me because rarely do I ever cater to the carnivorous side. I hope my comment helped you understand a bit more. Thanks.

[alpine plover]

Yeah it wouldn't exactly make sense if Deino just overpowers stego

Deino is made for fighting in the water, stego on land. If deino is good on land and in water, what's the point of even playing stego?

[cedar shore]

Deino vs stego should be like teno vs carno.

[alpine sleet]

@whole gust Teno is already powerful, increasing its speed will make it even more OP. Teno is the strongest creature right now pre update 3. Able to kill a raptor in 5 hits, as well it's a few miles from a Utahs sprint. Teno has a broken back kick that stuns you, as well you can spam it lol.