balance-feedback-discussion

[autumn zephyr]

Have a great rest of ur night/day

[cobalt dagger]

Goodnight.

I don't think it's a flat nerf though, I think backwards and strafing movements are incredibly powerful.

And I do think it fixes cera's OP'ness, it doesn't fix other things OP ness but it fixes cera.

And I don't think I'm the only one who thinks cera is OP, by a longshot.

[thin mantle]

If you’re getting chased by a teno and you get outpaced to the extent where it’s able to land a kick to begin a damage trade I have no idea what you’re doing

Bite a teno a couple times and it’ll vomit, lose a ton of stam, and now the stamina management game favors you significantly more than it already did

If you’re unable to do this without damage trading with the teno and getting stunned than the teno is genuinely outplaying you

[autumn zephyr]

The moment you turn around to bite is the moment you get kicked in this concept, this is what completely kills it, there is nothing you can do but get totally bullied by tenos and your only hope is to run away and hope you outstam them (you won't, as cera has less stamina than a teno)

[thin mantle]

No you don’t, bait the kick and hit in between kicks, use your incredible turn speed. Cerato is powerful and agile enough to fight allos of equal growth ffs a teno is absolutely manageable

Like you literally cannot get kicked in a chase, it’s not possible or for them to get THAT far ahead of you

[autumn zephyr]

How are you gonna bait a kick, by feinting a turn and hoping the teno falls for it? You'll lose momentum and if the teno is good he absolutely will get a claw swipe in if not a kick

[thin mantle]

Yeah do it successfully and you’ll get your hit in and avoid their’s

The animals are pretty well balanced around each other in that regard

Ceratos attacks are free, and it can take away a huge amount of stamina from the teno, but the teno is way more threatening when stationary

If you can’t work around these constraints then avoid them

Use terrain and water to your advantage as they universally benefit you by comparison, with the exception of rocks

[autumn zephyr]

No
The reason maia ever so slightly works right now is because very little people use the full extent of its kit and power, it'll be the same case here
yes you can escape the average teno (even if it was chasing and bullying you no matter what), but a skilled teno will NOT allow you to live

[thin mantle]

Ok? Then you weren’t good enough to survive it

You ARE able to fight back

[autumn zephyr]

No, you're not
cerato's skill ceiling is miles lower than teno's and with this rework it has way lower dps, you'll get 4-5 bites in at best with vomit lock and if ur lucky, a good cera in this case will always get bodied by a good teno, it has every single advantage

[thin mantle]

Besides being able to do damage during a chase, do damage in the water, and all of its attacks costing stamina

You’re dramatically underselling how good cerato is into teno honestly

Teno has the advantage, but it’s unable to be oppressive unless you’re quite frankly not trying very hard to avoid its damage

[autumn zephyr]

No I'm not, cerato is very good into teno RIGHT NOW, this rework concept is going to absolutely murder its matchup

[thin mantle]

(Not that cerato necessarily needs a good matchup into teno without a body buff btw)

[autumn zephyr]

Because right now if a teno chases you and puts you into the same position, you can almost always trade a charge bite for a kick, so you can't really get bullied by tenos rn, they just force you to fight, but even then tenos will willingly back off rn because they can't underestimate them

[thin mantle]

You don’t even need charge bite to fight teno effectively

Cerato really is just that agile

[autumn zephyr]

Yes the average new player that just picked teno maybe

But other wise no, tenos are more agile and please remember that their peak prime is a whole 2 km/h faster, I feel like we're forgetting that

[thin mantle]

Oh don’t worry I think peak prime stats are absurd across the board in terms of speed

I don’t think prime stats should effect speed at all

[autumn zephyr]

Cerato is amongst the very few that doesn't get increased speed as prime

[thin mantle]

Although tenos peak speed lasts for about 30 minutes so it isn’t too bad

Then it gets very slow

It’s one of the reasons why teno is so rarely played, it’s decayed prime is basically unplayable

[autumn zephyr]

But this matchup aside, what this rework is doing is not gonna help with anything at all, good ceratos will always still be strong and do their job exactly as they are right now, nothing will change besides make teno bully the hell out of them

[thin mantle]

Well unless body buff is involved ofc

[autumn zephyr]

cera shouldn't have to rely on body buff to survive an encounter, that's his tool, his niche, what he does best, whether you take away his ability to sprint while charging or not he's gonna hunt the exact same things he's hunting right now

[thin mantle]

Well I keep saying this but even despite everything, cerato would be able to survive teno even with a speed disadvantage

[autumn zephyr]

Even if you do survive, I don't feel like it's healthy for the game fighting for your absolute life the moment a teno spots you

[thin mantle]

Seems reasonable to me given it’s a larger animal

It’s how cerato engages with anything else larger than itself

[autumn zephyr]

Though I'll give you this, this might be just speculation but this rework might let ceras fight maias a lot easier

[autumn zephyr]

Except there's nothing a cera has to his advantage, teno is faster, more agile, has more dps, the only time cera has something for it aside from bile is if they're both peak prime hes slightly bigger, but that's not gonna help much

[autumn zephyr]

Unless the maia is bug abusing now that I think about it, but not only is that extremely rare but also bannable on most unofficial servers

[thin mantle]

Teno isn’t more agile, at the worst their agility is relative. Teno is unable to do damage while chasing something of relative speed, you have to be much slower than it to do damage, meaning running from it even when you’re a little slower is very easy to do, and if you reach water there’s nothing they can do to hurt you you’re immune

And cerato is explicitly designed around its contextual use of water for various purposes

This isn’t outside its design to do

[autumn zephyr]

Again, no one but semi aquatics should rely on water to escape, the argument Gallus made yesterday that "everyone uses water to escape" is most definitely always a last resort, never something you're supposed to do

[thin mantle]

And in the case that you’re just better than the teno you can take that 1v1

[thin mantle]

It literally is intended in the case of cerato specifically

Hence why it has an aquatic alt attack and was planned to use water as an escape tool since its inception

Cerato was designed with this in mind

[autumn zephyr]

Trying to hunt small crocs at best, cerato is a good swimmer but still not a semi aquatic, water isn't his niche

[thin mantle]

No it’s not I’m not saying it is

[autumn zephyr]

Rex and allo have em too

[thin mantle]

Yes they do, but cerato has a better swim speed than both of them

And again, cerato was always designed to use the water to escape from threats it can’t handle

That’s literally in its concept art

And it was the first terrestrial animal to have a swimming alt attack

[autumn zephyr]

Also

Please remember teno is also a great swimmer, most probably better than cera

[thin mantle]

It is, but in the water it can’t do any damage

So you just maul it

So if it chases you, you just kill it

[autumn zephyr]

So what if the teno just.. sits there and camps you? if the river is big enough it could just also swim and keep close, but not too close

[thin mantle]

Then wait for it to swim and start killing it in the water

It can’t fight back while swimming

And the wasted stamina from swimming hurts teno way more than it hurts you

You’re practically endurance hunting it by getting it baited into swimming after you

[autumn zephyr]

Wdym wait for it to swim the teno is the one waiting for you, it swims faster, it can reach wherever you want to reach faster, and if it has a stamina problem it could possibly bait you into biting its tail for some delicious tactile regen

[thin mantle]

Tenos swim speed isn’t so much faster than ceratos that it’s going to be crossing rivers before you reach the other side when it’s behind you

And again

If it’s able to do that youve made some grave errors

[autumn zephyr]

It's not THAT much faster but is still faster, you're not going to get a chance to punish the teno

[thin mantle]

Yes you will

I’ve done this a lot actually

It’s my favorite way to hunt overly aggressive tenos

[autumn zephyr]

Wdym

[thin mantle]

Bait them into swimming, if they chase you do loads of damage to them, if they go to shore just go to the other shore

[autumn zephyr]

Rn overly aggressive tenos can be taken down with the good old run while charging, why would u need to use the water

[thin mantle]

Because it’s more fun

And it works when fighting multiple better

[autumn zephyr]

No matter how long we keep this discussion going I'm never going to see how u guys think this is a good idea lmao

[thin mantle]

Also teno swims 1.11kmh faster than creato, it’ll never reach the other side first unless it starts swimming at the exact same time you do

If it’s even a meter behind you you’ll reach the other side first

[thin mantle]

I don’t, for the record

[autumn zephyr]

Then why are you valiantly defending it XD

[thin mantle]

I’m just acknowledging how much this doesn’t cripple cerato

[thin mantle]

I’m not, I never said I was lol

[autumn zephyr]

I also never said it cripples it, just this matchup specifically

I kept saying that ceras will do their thing just as normal lmao

[thin mantle]

Then I misspoke, it doesn’t cripple ceras matchup with teno specifically either

[autumn zephyr]

But then again let's just agree to disagree, even if this matchup is bad or not, its clear that I don't like the idea of having to fear for my life the second a teno sees me while you're confident that this won't happen, in my heart it will so you can't really change that lmao

[thin mantle]

Alright, sounds good to me🤝

[cobalt dagger]

You cross the other side. If he starts to cross the river to chase you, enter the river and maul it while it swims over

[cobalt dagger]

@junior jay I don't know why people dislike your antimixpacking solution. Looks good to me.

I guess maybe they think it would just be small carnivores mixing with big herbivores. I understand that would still happen but I also thing small things should still get more hunger timer.

[dawn cipher]

I think the main problem here is:

Apexes mixpacking is bad, but increasing hunger drain for large animals doesn't really fix it. People who want to mixpack will mixpack and kill even more players to meet their hunger needs, whether that's to eat their bodies or eliminate competition for herbi food. This change will not stop a trike and a rex mixpacking, but it will punish 2 stegos grouping together even more than the abysmal food value of most plants already does. An allo and a cera banding together might be punished by this proposed change, if they can't find enough food... but 2 allos grouped together "legally" would be even more punished, because both are large enough to suffer from the suggested hunger curve. There would be an active incentive for large carnivores to mix with smaller ones (i.e. a pet troo or dilo to blind your enemies in exchange for scraps) because playing solo is a death sentence, but the ecosystem can't support a full pack of one's own species grouped together.

I agree that small animals suffer, especially in early life, with hunger in a way that's really unrealistic (starving to death overnight as juvi PT, for example), but that's a totally separate issue to mixpacking control. That is, stomach size is a function of weight. Small animals grow quickly, which means they gain stomach size more quickly overall, which means their hunger drains faster during growth. But adult troo already has a 60m hunger drain without any mutations. IMO base hunger value isn't the problem, but how the stomach interacts with growth curve across all species (smalls just feel it the most).

[cobalt dagger]

That makes sense. I think I just want large carnivore hunger timers reduced generally, mixpack or not.

Honestly I'm pretty sure mixpackers kill for fun more than for food

And for that reason nothing will ever really discourage them from killing.

[dawn cipher]

Absolutely. So for me, it seems like TECHKIT's proposal would only punish regular players while also having little to no effect on mixpack KOS-ers

Honestly that's the problem with most player proposals for anti-mixpack mechanics imo, that they're either so remarkably specific and sensitive that the game can't realistically support it, or more often that they're broad enough to punish regular gameplay more than bad behavior. Most player suggestions treat circumstantial proximity/cohabitation with other species as equivalent to roaming the map as different species killing everything that's not in your discord VC.

And often, I expect the outcomes would be disproportionately bad for herbivores too. Because the population split so heavily favors carnivores, it can sometimes be plainly impossible to find another of your species. So if my teno is all by his lonesome and comes upon a tolerant dibble, I will slow down and keep company for a while. I'm biased, but I think it's fair to do that without being punished

[cobalt dagger]

I agree; letting herbivores mixpack because they can't find their own kind so it actually ends up being more fair.

I think a good way to solve the mixpacking is to look more deeply into species-specific or size-specific escape methods. Think of herra. Yeah the mixpackers can just hire a herra, but then you have a herra-on-herra fight in the trees. It's unlikely they have more than one herra and if they do, well getting hunted by a bigger pack of your own kind happens with or without mixpacking.

Anyway if you win the herra vs herra then you can safely log out while the rexes and whatever other things below are forced to just watch.

There needs to be more terrain swap options because speed isnt' enough, things will trot you down while you're logging out. But actual terrain swapping is fantastic.

Like what if we added more caves of various sizes and only creatures of xyz size could fit in the cave? Then only the mixpack members close to your own size or smaller could come in and fight you and the rex and stego might be stuck outside. While the odds are still against you, it's still a good way to force the mixpack to break up; some of them waiting on the outside for the smaller ones to go in and finish the job. And if you aren't solo and you have friends, then say you and your pack of ceras might just maul the carno, dilo and troodon that ran into the cave to challenge you while their stego friend waits outside.

[dawn cipher]

I'm not sure the extent to which it would fix mixpacking per se, but I'm definitely in favor of more "hidey hole" type spaces for mid and small tier animals to engage more reliably with their own weight class. Honestly a solid example would be dryo's burrow from legacy -- juvenile "utahraptors" could follow you inside, but this was before pinning was a thing, so you could actually try to fight them in there. You'd probably lose, but death wasn't guaranteed. I think Mangroves are a good step towards something like that, though its hitboxes are jank enough that it's difficult to navigate even as very small species like beipi. I remember in a preview video it was also shown a troodon going inside a redwood, though I've yet to find one of those openings on current HT, I also haven't looked all too hard ^^;

[junior jay]

You cant really mix when ur starving

The whole idea behind this suggestion is that mixpacks are very Visible Or loud and People generally avoid them but the People Who dont avoid them die and get the mixpacks More food (Also ai but it wont be enough with this Change) but that happens only every hour Or More so if the hunger timers are 30-45 mins the mix carnivores Will start to starve and then they gotta decide to either eat their friend Or die

[slim dragon]

If a mixpack is starving, then everyone is.

Because believe it or not, the reason people mixpack is because it makes it really easy to get food

[junior jay]

No mix packs can be avoided a solo rex In the forest cant really be (if you dont know its even there)

[junior jay]

And In General People mixpack cause its easier to survive with protection most of em are noobs players that got experience can survive with higher hunger drains

[slim dragon]

That's a deep misinderstanding on how mixpacks work
If you can't avoid a solo rex, how is a solo rex + 2 dilos and a pachy easier to avoid ?
You'll just get ran down by them

[slim dragon]

And how do you get said experience if the game doesn't let you survive until you are experienced ?

[junior jay]

Yes but In time those dilos and pachy Will die while chasing something bigger

[junior jay]

If read my suggestion it only made apexes harder you could get experience with smaller dinos😭

[slim dragon]

And I think basing hunger drain off weight as an arbitrary method is a bad idea

Apex herbis already have a terrible time with hunger
Comically enough, so does deino

Rex is the only one who as it easy
Why ? Because it's got the longest hunger time in the game for whatever reason

[junior jay]

If you wouldve read my suggestion i had a solution for that😑

[dusky surge]

okay your solution was have it starve way too fast which is the opposite problem lmao

[junior jay]

And deino should be an exception for this

[dusky surge]

also to have troodon literally just

never worry about anything ever

[junior jay]

Small tiers should have chill easy lives (when not hunted)

[slim dragon]

You know, people can know what you mean yet still disagree with you

[dusky surge]

as someone who plays small tiers, i'd rather have some gameplay

[junior jay]

"apex herbis already have a terrible time with hunger"
I literally wrote a fix for that

[junior jay]

How does slower hunger drain remove gameplay

You can still hunt

[dusky surge]

all you've done is increase plant food amount and converted apex herbis into EVEN more of lawnmower sim, which is literally why people don't like it

[dusky surge]

if the only reason i'm hunting is to stave off boredom as opposed to staving off hunger, it's bad survival game design

[slim dragon]

There being a fix doesn't solve the core issue with your suggestion, which is the suggestion itself

[junior jay]

I mean theres a reason you cant look around when eating it provides ambush timings and herbis are not Hunters they are prey

[dusky surge]

???

that has nothing to do with anything, lawnmower sim still isn't fun

[junior jay]

Was this game ever fun

[dusky surge]

yea great argument

[junior jay]

They were made to be prey and lawnmowers they got nothing else😭 and we are talking about apexes they should be Hard to grow/maintain

[dusky surge]

hard and miserable are different beasts

saying "herbivores were made to be prey" is not winning my favour either lmao

[junior jay]

They literally were

[slim dragon]

Who decided that ?

[junior jay]

Mother earth and devs i guess

[dusky surge]

people don't want to play walking food

if they were made to be food, they'd be unable to do anything to survive predators because they're food

[junior jay]

No1 said they are "free" food and i personally enjoy playing as food

[slim dragon]

Herbivores do not purely exist to be food irl

Neither do they in the game

[dusky surge]

great for you man

[junior jay]

Not purely
they Also exist to mate, adapt and eat grass

[dusky surge]

may i suggest "i am bread" as a choice of game instead of the isle

there's no way you added that final part

[junior jay]

[dusky surge]

making it way too easy for him

[junior jay]

Free food and food are different
Free food = rex > diablo
Food = rex > trike
Most playables arent free food and the 1s that are
Are flawed

[slim dragon]

Nothing in life has a purpose other than to live

[junior jay]

https://tenor.com/view/life-barrel-me-roll-gif-17943995

#balance-feedback message @tight cove
From 4800 to 500 quite a nerf
Maybe a lil too much it would make pounce useless

[keen plover]

I think that's fine personally, but they need to significantly buff the bleed

[junior jay]

It has always been above 1000

Below that it becomes useless (depending on the bleed Buff ofc) cause bites are More stam effective

[keen plover]

You used to buck them off in seconds so they never had the chance to deal that much

With current rng pounce you're dealing more damage than you used to by a long shot

[junior jay]

Trees exist

[keen plover]

Well on live it doesn't really matter, but yeah ht Omni is cooked

Guess it won't matter. Omni will be useless soon enough

[junior jay]

https://tenor.com/view/lyra-scream-ahh-gif-6076849113431375742

[keen plover]

😔 idk why we can't just balance omni to be good near trees while also not making it busted in the open

[junior jay]

I dont think omni was ever busted ngl maybe spiro
But In Evrima its always been very skill dependant dino and we shouldnt nerf it to ground since it already requires a lot More skill than other playables

[elder gazelle]

spiro omni was crazy

[viscid mica]

@elder gazelle it cant 1 tap as the pin math dont work like that but I agree juvi rex is absurdly fast with no real downside to stamina

[worthy steeple]

i could never understand if techkit is ragebaiting or just has one of the worst takes lol

[viscid mica]

bit a both

[worthy steeple]

hi ziowar

[viscid mica]

hi!

[worthy steeple]

it’s been a while

[viscid mica]

indeed were you been

[worthy steeple]

social media break

[viscid mica]

valid

[worthy steeple]

i’ll be back to tenontosaurus business very soon

swamp donkey my beloved

[viscid mica]

oh... you havent played sense before rex HT right?

[worthy steeple]

little meow meow tail swip and sharp claws

[worthy steeple]

YES LOL

[cosmic pelican]

In the live branch it can, as rex deals 350dps in a pin during all stages of life.

Its fixed in HT luckily

[junior jay]

Hey! im very offended

[viscid mica]

oh no... Teno.... isnt what it used to be

[worthy steeple]

new graphics in HT are fire tho

[viscid mica]

in full pin ya

[worthy steeple]

i know it’s garbage now, tho it won’t stop me

it still has its agility and bleed

[viscid mica]

dw i been on that same energy with dibble

[worthy steeple]

and coolness

[cosmic pelican]

Hes right, rex be 1 tapping anything as a juvi
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423939730544132096/1466492170256122072/46C9291.MP4?ex=6a1a7c03&is=6a192a83&hm=72697bc2c23bc8fabc681ea91405bc61136d7c2105c23c0be99d94851580cb6f&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423939730544132096/1466491303729565696/5911981.MP4?ex=6a1a7b34&is=6a1929b4&hm=0a1f77982d83fee4feb1e2c300fb7e55731530f72157133f2dad81af784083e6&

[worthy steeple]

ah poor dibble, gets destroyed by rexes and allos it can’t run away from :(

[worthy steeple]

SORRY!!!

[viscid mica]

wait so long as it half pins it 1 taps?

[viscid mica]

BRO CERAS ARE RUINING DIBBLES RN

[worthy steeple]

i hate ceras

i will always hate stink breathed ceras

[junior jay]

I fogvie yu

[cosmic pelican]

Yes, because the 1 tick of 350dmg instantly qualifies the dilo to being solo grappled because its now low on hp

[viscid mica]

bro you can reasonably 1v1 dibble as a cera if your good enough

[worthy steeple]

thank you 🙏

[viscid mica]

ah

[worthy steeple]

i want a small teno buff pretty please 🥺

[cosmic pelican]

Luckily a 1t rex in the hordetest only does 30dps in a pin, and the pinning stamina also got nerfed

[worthy steeple]

nice

[viscid mica]

I want a big teno buff bro got left behind during the prime system

[cosmic pelican]

Wish granted, adult teno was buffed from 40.3kmh to 40.5kmh in the rex ht

[viscid mica]

not bad not bad rex still too fast thou

[junior jay]

Depending on the skill level that both are

Both:
top tier sweats = no
Avarage pvp sweats = yes
Survival players = maybe
Noobs = no

[worthy steeple]

tho does it even matter how much stamina rex has after the pin? they prey is already dead

tho it slightly matters if there’s multiple enemies

[viscid mica]

agreed

[viscid mica]

WAIT WHY DO SURVIVAL PLAYERS GET THEIR OWN BRACKET

[cosmic pelican]

As far as I know it costs 5% stamina per second for it to pin, so that means it will only deal ~500dmg before fully running out

[worthy steeple]

+200kg in its prime is wild, teno needs to eat more

[junior jay]

cause they are the "normal" tier

[worthy steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1373785821252943882/IMG_3598.gif

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[worthy steeple]

hmm me!

[viscid mica]

WHAT EH

Ill have you know PvP players suck on survival unless they afk grow or do some rat strats smh

[worthy steeple]

real

[viscid mica]

they only good as full primes

[junior jay]

Survival is easy

[worthy steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1324737703127945370/1380649230464585748/ezgif.com-optimize.gif

[junior jay]

Dondi rn

[viscid mica]

actually surviving the basics yes but survival combat be different

[dusty oak]

Could someone please share the GIF of this server with me? Thank you very much.

[junior jay]

Just look around you to not get ambushed After that its basicly the same as a pvp server

[viscid mica]

yes and no

diets, location, stamina, health, numbers alot of factors you dont see in PvP servers aand are super hard to emmulate

[dusty oak]

Could you please share a GIF of this server with me? Thank you very much.

[viscid mica]

which one you want

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/859369469482631168/1174008360723546122/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp.gif

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1335135076228399205/bullying.gif

https://imgur.com/wpZNmO7

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-evrima-t-rex-rex-diabloceratops-gif-13308571214103444922

[junior jay]

I mean
I play with 0 diets so those dont matter
Numbers its pretty easy to see Who has the advantage ngl
And everything Else is extremely simple
Low hp run High hp fight
Location rarely matters
Stam basicly always above 60-80

[viscid mica]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1256377694380232714/1256377858293497877/rule10.gif

[junior jay]

[dusty oak]

profile picture gif server

[junior jay]

Ima take that

[viscid mica]

"location rarely matters" this tells me you would not survive a fight in survival with me location means EVERYTHING

[viscid mica]

I have so many

[dusty oak]

gif format

[viscid mica]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH none of us have that but you can find it on google animated too

[dusty oak]

Oke

[junior jay]

So ur telling me you would win me as a hypsi when im rex

[viscid mica]

I mean your chacing me near a cliff and I blind you at the right time mayhaps

[junior jay]

https://tenor.com/view/jinx-the-cat-jinx-jinx-cat-cat-computer-gif-25786466

[viscid mica]

servers are back I gotta lock tf in

[junior jay]

https://tenor.com/view/lock-in-locked-in-lock-tf-in-cat-cat-meme-gif-13335816645637017379

[elder gazelle]

i 1tapped a prime dilo as a speedy juvie rex

i don't think the speed is the problem, but the damage it does compared to its size is weird

[vale brook]

in evrima, yes. it's doing adult crush damage

fixed in HT

[elder gazelle]

ohh ok

wait for real? in evrima it does as much crush dmg as an adult rex?

[vale brook]

yarg it's funky, but now in HT as a 400kg~ ish rex you can pin a boar, empty your stam into, and still not kill it

[elder gazelle]

oh well that's definitely not good

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423939730544132096/1466491303729565696/5911981.MP4?ex=6a1a7b34&is=6a1929b4&hm=0a1f77982d83fee4feb1e2c300fb7e55731530f72157133f2dad81af784083e6&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423939730544132096/1466492170256122072/46C9291.MP4?ex=6a1a7c03&is=6a192a83&hm=72697bc2c23bc8fabc681ea91405bc61136d7c2105c23c0be99d94851580cb6f&
Yep

[elder gazelle]

that doesn't rlly prove it tho

should have it crush a fg dibble and see how much dmg it does

compared to normal rex

[cosmic pelican]

Adult rex does 350dps in a pin, adult dilo is 700kgs, and it died in exactly 2 damage ticks

[cosmic pelican]

The damage is only bugged while pinning

[elder gazelle]

ohh ok nvm

so when it's pinning, it does as much dmg as adult rex

whaat happens in HT when a 700kg rex crushes a 700kg dilo?

[cosmic pelican]

All stages of life do 350dps, from the 50kg fresh spawn, all the way to the 12.3t elder

[cosmic pelican]

A 1t rex does 30dps while pinning, so the dilo will still be alive by the time the rex runs out of stam

[elder gazelle]

... a 1ton rex runs out of stam pinning a dilo?

[cosmic pelican]

Yes

[elder gazelle]

well damn small rex is getting meganerfed

[reef blade]

I don’t want to put it in suggestions since I don’t know if someone has already suggested it but I feel like they seriously need to change all the pin issues where if u are pinned u can’t do anything except hope the larger dino runs out of stam. I still don’t think even damage back will help very much in that sense if u are much smaller. It’s always super discouraging to get pinned by something not realizing it’s large enough to pin u and basically having to accept ur gonna die

[elder gazelle]

yea that's oversuggested

[cosmic pelican]

Keep in mind a 1t rex is still well over 50km/h, so it can easily run from a dilo if it wants to, or alternatively if it bites the dilo 4-5 times, it will be able it will be able to then finish it off with a pin

Rex just got brought down to a reasonable power level from the abaolute God it was

[bitter iris]

Imo the main thing is to buff 100% speed and debuff some prime speed (Rex)

[elder gazelle]

did the adult or prime get nerfed?

[bitter iris]

I heard pinning costs more stam but haven’t tested it.

[harsh jetty]

Discuss feedback from #balance-feedback here. Posting troll comments will not be tolerated and will result in being muted from typing in this channel.

[dapper frost]

@alpine plover tenos tail slam is getting cc next update not the kick tho from what we know

the kick and claw attack are gaining bleed

[simple fiber]

But will the hitboxes be fixed for teno, utahs is too slim while for teno you can be hit a head lengths away.

[dapper frost]

I dont know about that

Probably I would assume since something like hitboxes seems like an ongoing thing that can be tweaked.

[obtuse shuttle]

Probably, if the can fix a hit It Will probably get fixed

I doubt they Will keep something Broken on purpose

[simple fiber]

Yeah

[hallow rose]

@raw cypress
thats the point of small creatures, to make the hard/not easy to hit

making they're hitboxes big would make the completely pointless

[raw cypress]

i mean like

as big as the body

right now, you can bite right on top of them

and not do any damage

[woeful kiln]

ummm I dont think that is the case Gojira

sometimes with fast movement hits dont register. But it has nothing to do with the hitboxes, they are on the entire body already

[obtuse shuttle]

Dryo simply cant go faster

Legs cant go faster without being supersonic

[alpine plover]

maybe make utah slower?

it's just so easy to be killed by utahs as dryo fr I can't tell if I'm just bad at the game or if it's a balance issue

but I use dodge well and all it does is eat my stam and stave off being killed for a few seconds

[woeful kiln]

dryo is already faster than utah

[alpine plover]

no it isn't lol

[obtuse shuttle]

There is a speed curve, animals smaller than Utah simply dont have enought leg length, animals bigger than utah are way too heavy to run fast
Utah to carno sized animals Will allways be the fastest

And no, dryo isnt faster than utah

[hallow rose]

as it should

[wary otter]

Its not, but as soon as a dryo gets in the forest the utah wont get it anyways

[alpine plover]

fair. maybe make dodge more effective so it's easier to escape

[woeful kiln]

thats what i ment. Not in a straight line sorry

[dapper frost]

dryo doesnt need to be just as maneuverable as utah plus faster

[woeful kiln]

in the forest it can get away

[obtuse shuttle]

Not to mention dryo just kinda grows instantanely

[alpine plover]

right now your only chance is to run into a forest and hide and hope you aren't found

[dapper frost]

dryo can easily outmaneuver utahs and escape

[alpine plover]

maybe I am just bad at the game

[obtuse shuttle]

Run, fight or hide
Dryo already can do one of them

[wary otter]

so rn i always had an easy time escaping utahs, also dont forget dryos might be able to burrow

[dapper frost]

maybe

its up in the air whether it invades burrows or makes its own

[alpine plover]

did they say they might? I thought that they were able to go into burrows, but not make them

Dryosaurus is like a rabbit, utahraptor is like a coyote. The rabbit can't go as quickly as the coyote, but is good at hiding.

[obtuse shuttle]

I even scaped utahs as juvie dryos, and those werent bad utahs

[novel tulip]

Does dryo have crouch

[wary otter]

it does

[alpine plover]

fair, I didn't really try to hide at all

[novel tulip]

You can use the crouch in the woods to lose em for good

[alpine plover]

Utah should be slower, the way it moves right now simulates barely any weight i doubt it would ever be able to run that fast realistically

[hallow rose]

it really doesnt need to be slower

[dim raft]

Can someone check if you can react in #balance-feedback for moi.

[hallow rose]

yeah

we can

[dim raft]

ty

[true ginkgo]

yep can react

[thin herald]

yup

[shut gale]

Why doesn't it make sense to only hit one target with a tail hit ?

[covert cave]

the tail is massive

[shut gale]

Well yeah but, it makes more sense that it can hit only one target ?

it's not like the tail is supposed to pass through the targets and hit the others ?

[covert cave]

well if its swinging down like a slam it should only hit more than one if they're close imo

[shut gale]

I'm not sure I see how

I mean I understand the point of view, you guys want an AOE attack or something, but if we talk about something realistic

the tail hit something and that's it

it's not passing through

[covert cave]

it would depend on how strong the tail is

if something swipes its tail through a crowd it could take them all out depending on size & strength

[shut gale]

Well maybe but do you have any exemple for the game rn ?

Even anky, I could hardly see him sending 1 utah fly in the sky, and taking out the other next to him too

[signal nimbus]

Tail slam is possible
Tail hits similar to anky not really

[covert cave]

I haven't played evrima

[hallow rose]

wait does the tail really only hit one target?

[signal nimbus]

Ig so

[hallow rose]

I'm pretty sure I saw a video of it hitting 2 utahs

[shut gale]

it feels very logical to me, I don't get why everyone look surprised

[covert cave]

I can see why you'd think that but the tail is pretty strong

[signal nimbus]

I mean it's a slam and a heavy attack

[shut gale]

It's strong but the other dinosaurs are huge too

[hallow rose]

https://youtu.be/g7Mbj8AdLRo

2 utahs at once

[covert cave]

utahs arent

[signal nimbus]

If something heavy falls onto you and someone next to you both of you are gonna get hurt there's no denying that

[covert cave]

^

[shut gale]

Utah might looks small but they're really heavy anyway

makes no sense to me that the tail would hit one utah and the other who are in the way too

[covert cave]

yes but in relation to teno theyre light

[shut gale]

one utah would probably die but the others should be fine

[signal nimbus]

Yeah but Tenonto's slam should still deal some damage

[covert cave]

ok i've gotta do homework no more arguing about a dinosaur game

[shut gale]

If they decide to allow tails to hit many targets at once, at least I hope the damage will be severely reduced for the others taking the hit too

[covert cave]

i can agree on that

[shut gale]

Or then it just means the tail legit pass through everyone, not losing strenght and speed in the process

and I don't know how this would make more sense

[signal nimbus]

It would make sense for it to lose speed and do less damage to the 2nd one hit
Should still be some form of collision so I agree with ya there

[novel tulip]

That creates a situation where two dinosaurs make a dumb mistake but only one gets punished

If attacks only hit one dino

Remember that this isn't a physics simulation or something, its a video game

Video game mechanics >> realism

[shut gale]

Well you're right on that but, would you enjoy being with a group of 3 utah, you hunt a stego, suddenly the stego do a tail hit

and poof

you're all gone

[novel tulip]

A. Grouping up so one hit takes you all out is awful hunting B. Everyone failing to dodge a hit at once is also awful hunting

[shut gale]

It's like what we have on legacy rn where you have a rex killing 4 dinosaurs in one bite, it's just annoying and there's nothing fun about this

[novel tulip]

What are 4 dinosaurs doing in front of a rex

[shut gale]

Running away ? Didn't see the rex ?

There's ton of possibilities

and it's just frustrating to have your whole group dying because of a single attack

[novel tulip]

If they don't see the rex coming then thats their fault

Especially if theyre all grouped up so that one hit takes them out

[shut gale]

For someone who gave me the game argument you sure takre the game very seriously

but anyway I don't think we'll agree on that

Lmao

[novel tulip]

How am I taking the game seriously

[shut gale]

"they should see the rex coming, it's their fault" "they shouldn't be packed together, it's stupid"

It happens to everyone, and it's not a fun game mechanic

[novel tulip]

Thats literally never happened to me before because I understand that staying in a literal ball with my pack mates is inefficient

[shut gale]

Well you're lucky that you never had any giga or rex ambushing out of nowhere while you're sitting with your friends I guess

And killing you all just because the hitboxes are buggy, because yes it's buggy

it's not an intended mechanic

[novel tulip]

Well if you're sitting in a place where you can get ambushed you're taking that risk, and the punishment was delivered

[shut gale]

ok

[novel tulip]

If you dont want to get killed then do things that won't get you killed

[shut gale]

yeah I disagree

[covert cave]

bites should not be hitting more than one dino unless the creature biting is massive and the creature(s) recieving are small

[safe anchor]

@versed rune Hello some of the attacks already hit more then one target in the game in the current public build of evrima tail slam is one of them 🙂

[wild mist]

With the Utah alt attack you are also able to hit multiple targets.

[gritty onyx]

@sacred wind can we move here about the carno ram? I think I could explain better what I mean

[sacred wind]

oh i know what you mean

[gritty onyx]

ok, I just think it would add to the gameplay if it needed to be timed right and change the solo/pack gameplay by a good bunch.... I don't know, Allos would mostly need to be unaware to fall to it

[ember ivy]

i strongly agree with that doc

[lean lotus]

I dislike #2 greatly.

[lean lotus]

What's wrong @alpine plover ?

[calm ibex]

Teno is fine damage wise, it just struggles on actually landing those hits at the moment. Also if you up tenos dmg too much its just going to curbstomp other low tiers such as cera, something that is not agile enough to dodge its heavy hitting abilities and large stamina pool to chase things down

[alpine plover]

What's wrong @alpine plover ?
It is not completely broken but it doesn’t work as good as body scent.

When you start getting closer and closer to a bush, the becomes more and more difficult to see. Actually I have noticed multiple times that there is a certain range in which bush scent is almost completely invisible.

[lean lotus]

Hm, yeah, the green aura gets hidden considerably as you approach the bush.

[idle tendon]

I agree, dryo should either die or have severe bonebreak

It's already mobile enough to.dodge the charge

[alpine plover]

It would get brain damage if it survived and all of its bones broken. Dryo should be dead if it gets hit by a carno

[cedar shore]

Carnos will most likely 1 shot dryos, which is fair

[left scroll]

a regular bite not-quite one-shotting them, but putting them down very low I think would make sense. While a charge fully one-shots them, seeing as it's more difficult to pull off (so higher reward)

[woeful kiln]

Did someone already tell Pesky that some of tenontos attacks already do hit multiple targets? I just saw his suggestion and the fact that it has 60 upvotes surprised me 😅

[raw cypress]

you had me until "downsize tenonto"

[quasi grove]

theres a reason theres a big fat "maybe" right next to the rest of that statement

thats mostly there because if tenonto current size isnt properly accounted for by fixing its problems

the other solution is just making it a harder to hit target and lower its growth time

which i also think is lazy band-aid fix

and a meh idea overall

also yannis i'm pretty sure tenonto cant hit multiple targets in the current public build, either somehow never came across that in the multiple fights i've had in the current build or it might just be in QA's build or something

in regards to point 2, lemme point out that its not suggesting all of the changes be compounded together into some god tenonto that has CC and nearly one shots on body hits
its suggesting different scenarios for how much tenonto gets by update 2

so if tenonto doesnt have cc by update 2, it needs to be a good bit stronger because its big attacks are currently not worth throwing out because Utahs just tank it regardless(3 hits to kill a utah on body hits), which just shouldn't be the case considering its a 2 ton animal slamming a tail half its length into something less than half its size

and if it does have cc by update 2, then it only needs to be a tiny bit beefier because CC helps make its big attacks not get shrugged off like they currently do

late response ik, was busy

[safe anchor]

Did someone already tell Pesky that some of tenontos attacks already do hit multiple targets? I just saw his suggestion and the fact that it has 60 upvotes surprised me 😅
@woeful kiln yes I did last night it seems lots of people didn’t know that you can hit more then one target with some of the attacks

[hallow rose]

yeah i literally posted a video of a tenonto hitting 2 utahs at once with a tail slam

[silent dew]

@orchid depot what 1.4t ~"90kmh" predator do you refer to? we dont have such

[woeful kiln]

aight syn thx 😛

[finite solstice]

They're probably referring to the video where the carno charges a dryo

[silent dew]

if they mean this one, or at the beach?

[finite solstice]

The new one, most likely. The one that Boujee also reposted in their feedback

[silent dew]

im not an expert on UE4, but things big as carno moving with 90kmh would probably bend the engine to its absolute limits or break

[finite solstice]

The feedback was mainly an estimate/exaggeration. A dryo still wouldn't survive/get up and run off that easily after a charge like that

[silent dew]

correct, that may give the impression, please keep in mind that new mechanics like "Fractures" aren't implemented yet. i can see a dryo could be crippled if hit by an carno

^ personal opinion

[true ginkgo]

if just running into any smaller animal instikilled them it wouldn't be fun or balanced.

when the bone break system is in i'd understand it inflicting that though meaning the dryo can't flee easily

[silent dew]

even now the dryo would be dead/severly wounded and the carno can claim its food

but just to give you some better insight or a better imagination

if the carno, or any other predator is able to sneak so close it can use its charge and you dont notice it... well concratulation, you just served yourself on a silver plate

also, carno is midtier, dryo small so there is already a big gap stats wise

further to keep in mind, charge is an ability rn only carno possesses, just 'running' wont kill anyone atm. iirc a generalized trample mechanic was brainstormed, eg rex squishes utahs, but im not sure how far thats been since the last bits we heard of it

[cedar shore]

I like it that small carnivores cant just go face to face and bite. They have to be strategic and go in from behind/pounce. It makes littearly no sense that a dryo or utah can facetank a carno running at them by biting earlier??

[true ginkgo]

a dryo or utah have never been able to facetank a carno.

[cedar shore]

I know

[cedar shore]

I was talking about @slim dragon suggestion

[slim dragon]

Well, I think you misunderstood it because I think the same as you, and that was the point of my suggestion ^^

[final relic]

@alpine plover Your feedback is more suitable for #general-feedback due to it revolving around animations. You can resubmit to the proper channel, thanks!

[true ginkgo]

I swear half the things being posted are not balancing suggestions.

[lean lotus]

most of these look in the right place.

[obtuse shuttle]

So strange, another suggestion that is about giving quality of Life things to everything but apex because fuck apex

And is even a bad suggestion anyway

[dim raft]

@orchid depot I'm not sure if it was ever clarified and I missed the discussion earlier but the Carnotaurus charge does instantly kill a Dryosaurus but it depends on the size of the Carnotaurus charging it.

A fully grown Carnotaurus will always kill a Dryosaurus with the charge, while that sub adult will have to knock it down first.

The knockdown time is enough for that sub to turn around and finish it off with a bite regardless.

[queen dune]

Is the charge active the entire time you're running?

[orchid depot]

@dim raft I should've clarified, that's on me
however, I am fairly certain the carno in this previous video is an adult, in which the dryos survive and get back up within seconds
https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/664914260648001555

https://youtu.be/dfRR9ElXfaI

[dim raft]

Yeah. We changed it. 😛

Balance testing is a thing doood.

Carno instant kills with charge for a Dryo or smaller if it's full size.

[orchid depot]

Okay, thanks for confirming that.

[dim raft]

The damage scales with its growth.

:D

[queen dune]

Is it just active the entire time you run, or do you have to activate it somehow?

[alpine plover]

Good to know, and a welcomed change.

[dim raft]

You have to reach max sprint speed, then toggle it on with RMB.

Cooldown of 10 seconds after colliding or toggling it off.

It increases your stamina decay by a lot when it's toggled on.

[queen dune]

Nice, seems like a good way of avoiding the spam of it. Could we know what it does to a fully grown utah?

[dim raft]

I think it kills it in three charges, iirc.

So knocks an adult Utah down twice

[thin herald]

Nice.

Nice to see bleed looking more natural than its original look (amarok stream).

[queen dune]

I've had one last question for a long time, if it's not a bother. How has bleed held up for balance? Is it working as intended, and if so, what kind of role is it playing for combat?

Sry if it's a bit of a meaty one, but I've been curious on how combat is going to work once bleed is in

[vocal wharf]

Ooo

Where do we see bleed? Haven’t seen any footage yet

@thin herald

[thin herald]

In the picture

I'll get it.

[vocal wharf]

Oh

Ty

Interested in seeing a player actually bleeding, I thought that is what you meant :p

[queen dune]

That's why I'm asking about it

[desert wave]

Why would there be a winter on a tropical island

I can get behind the wet and dry seasons but icy winters wouldn’t make any sense and feel out of place

[true ginkgo]

How is seasons and flooding a balance suggestion?

[lean shoal]

we already know the devs don't plan for there to be temperature for the dinosaurs. only things it might affect are things like deino and megalania. thats more for a mod than anything.

also in the wet season the water would flush the contaminants out much faster than in the dry season due to more water flow.

[orchid pine]

Let's keep balance feedback to balance feedback. Other suggestions should go to their appropriate channels.

[tough orchid]

if anyone wants to discuss seamless transitions between full and none stam mechanics like running until u are exhausted and only left with walking for a while. now it's kind of the same as in legacy, you either walk or run, no inbetween.

I'd be down for talk cause I have no idea if that's even possible to do

[dusk dove]

@tough orchid There is a walk (z walking), normal trotting, then running.

[tough orchid]

yea I know but it's not bound to stamina

[dusk dove]

Just that Z walking is so slow no one uses it.

[tough orchid]

it's click, click click

I use z walk alot 😮

when it suits the situation and idk

if I think "ah now i wanna walk around this person sloooow"

but in a fight

[dusk dove]

i mean walking around shouldn't use stam, and if it does, it would be minimal.

[tough orchid]

actual isle gameplay as supposed to be, not trolling ppl

[dusk dove]

running uses stam for obvious reasons, but walking shouldn't

[tough orchid]

that's not what i said

I mean it like when you run away or hunt

then you lose stam to the point where you just walk around for few seconds, then you run a bit and walk a bit

[dusk dove]

i'm confused on what you're talking about

[tough orchid]

I don't really like how it is now, it would be cool if that would go seamless aswell

sry my engrish beed

[dusk dove]

So you're saying dinos should have endless stamina?

[tough orchid]

what ? no

lol

wait

[dusk dove]

So you're saying having them slowly slow down as stamina depletes?

[tough orchid]

I mean it like:
If you are well rested and you run away or hunt something there should be a reasonable amount of stam that's running out, when you run-stam is gone you start getting slower and slower until you start walking normal speed for walk. maybe only trot but you should not lag around like now, this ridiculous run, walk, run, walk ok now i sit afk for 10 minutes, again run for long time in same pace, then walk, run, walk xD u get me?

[dusk dove]

which dino are you referring to?

[tough orchid]

maybe even some kind of adrenaline rush you can initiate with a button but that would waste your stam even worse later on

each dino, it should be the same mechanic for every dino, just adjusted to suit the type

i mean imo, just my idea

[dusk dove]

i'm trying to figure out what you mean by lag

[tough orchid]

theoretically

[dusk dove]

talking if you hold the 'shift' on low stam and as soon as you get more stamina you run, then walk again?

[tough orchid]

yea and how this looks and feels weird

[dusk dove]

if you're able to take a video of what you mean and post it that'd be helpful 🙂

[tough orchid]

would be cool to have some kind of relation like if i have more stam - i also run a bit faster

woof, how can i visualize that

like having 200% of stamina, you run normally for the first 100% then you start giving up speed to trade it for distance you can make before you have to walk. if that's depleted you can just walk and start regain stam slowly for a while

[dusk dove]

It's definitely an interesting concept

[tough orchid]

then you can trade stam regain speed for actual running speed, so you can walk a bit faster depending on what you are - maybe galli regains stam slowly while running half speed

[grave veldt]

Instead what if you start out at full speed and u get slower over time as the more your stamina drains. Meaning if ur at 50% stam you will run at 50% of that dinos normal speed

[tough orchid]

Yea but I'd still prefer some time where you can run full speed (maybe even add adrenaline rush or so to get some extra out of the stamina battle)

Just my opinion tho, it would also work the way you said but that would also mean speed would constantly change, idk how that would be to animate...

[lean lotus]

I'd be more worried on how difficult that would be to balance.

[grave veldt]

you know what lets scratch that idea because balancing that would be very difficult

[novel tulip]

Yeah it would probably just boil down to "Rex at 80.27279228286% stamina is slightly faster than giga at 62.26629262926692% stamina"

Instead of just being able to say "yeah x can catch up to y"

[tough orchid]

Oof if you calculate everything like that brrr

But devs said their game would be a stam battle

So speed x and speed y depends on how much stam u have, sure hard to make but would look better and be much more interesting to play (also more luck or preparation depending than just knowing the speed stats from the whole roster) I just dislike this stupid run walk wait run and repeat playstyle

I'll stop now, next topic can be discussed anytime xD

[wispy lagoon]

maybe just make it so that whatever percentage it currently is you start panting at, you start getting slower too?

i mean your dino is obviosuly exhausted if it breathes really heavily, so why not make us lose speed then?

i dont think that would be that hard to balance

[tough orchid]

Yea that sounds reasonable, just so it looks and feels cool

[cloud urchin]

@gritty atlas Perks are one thing, but, we're still talking about an ambush arboreal predator that is half the size of Utah and can likely one shot Hypsi which is barely bigger than taco or as big as oro. I'mma say no.

[lean shoal]

that just makes hypsi unable to defend itslef from herera for one and an animal about 8x heavier than a prety species does not need any resistance to its effects.

[alpine plover]

@fresh laurel the speed for Giganotosaurus based on most heard estimates is probably outdated. It'd probably be only a bit faster than rex irl due to it being more lightly built, but still it wasn't the fastest predator.

[fresh laurel]

ik

im saying

make giga faster pls

:((

[alpine plover]

But in The Isle, the rex is not a fatass, and thus moves fast.

[fresh laurel]

i mean

it is dummy thick comparred to giga

[alpine plover]

Well I don't think much is going to be done about it, since Evrima is the main focus.

[unreal gyro]

Are they going to fix the compass 🧭 with update 2?

[thin herald]

It's not a priority.

[lavish musk]

I think it would be, it's hard to navigate the map and I hear about it every game I've joined into.

With no nesting and harder grouping on a new map people are getting easily confused

[dapper frost]

i think thats moreso because the map sucks ass

also you have to familiarize yourself with locations

[thin herald]

It still shouldn't. That's just an aesthetic detail that can take a day to fix. I would rather have the team work on core mechanics.

Map is super unfinished.

[wispy lagoon]

but if it only takes a day to fix, why not take the tiny amount of time and just fix it right away instead of pushing it off to the side?

[bold canyon]

I really like the map! compass is pretty easy to figure out, the dip is south and the point is north, like in legacy.

I like how there isn't any letters anymore. it's learned with expirience, which is kinda the game vibe.

[wispy lagoon]

yeah but new players are confused because theres no way the game tells you. you dont learn it from game experience you learn it from other players or using a map

[dapper frost]

tbh i never used the compass ever

[bold canyon]

yeah but new players are confused because theres no way the game tells you. you dont learn it from game experience you learn it from other players or using a map
@wispy lagoon
then a tooltip maybe? for humans it would obviously show the letters

and for anyone who's lost there's the interactive website as well :)

[dapper frost]

yeah but new players are confused because theres no way the game tells you. you dont learn it from game experience you learn it from other players or using a map
We just need tutorials for mechanics and dinos. Not knowing how something works applies to most.

Like a new player wont know how to do the utah alt bite

[wispy lagoon]

yes, id actually prefer tutorials/tooltips over blandly laying everything out

[thin herald]

Why would you waste time fixing that's not a high priority when you actually have game breaking bugs to fix.

[bold canyon]

how about instead of a tooltip, there's a guide option at the menu of the game?

since there's a lot for each dino, and systems are going to be really complicated later on.

[dapper frost]

they could just have tutorials for like all the main mechanics and then like dino specific ones

[lean shoal]

^

[bold canyon]

you can make them like, in the style of a feild reporter, so it fits the aestetic

[lean shoal]

give a suggestion and see the upvotes skyrocket.

[dapper frost]

i cant atm

[lean shoal]

you can make them like, in the style of a feild reporter, so it fits the aestetic
you can just use taps concepts for some of them.

[bold canyon]

thanks for the gold kind stranger

you can just use taps concepts for some of them.
tap could also be comissioned for those pages too, making rough sketches. as an artist sketching is fun

[lean shoal]

there could be 2 pages per animal the behavioral concept then a wrighten page on it.

[bold canyon]

I would say keep it to one page unless like, there's just so much content per animal

[lean shoal]

one page shows the animal as it would be in game the other is an in depth description of its playstyle and mechanics.

could also be a drop down on the ? in the character selection screen.

[bold canyon]

or, if you have never played as that animal before, you don't get all of the stats.

that might seem stupid but like, what if the speed of the animal wasnt known until you ran for a bit as that dino?

[woeful kiln]

you dont need the letter in the compas...

[thin herald]

You do not need the compass.

There is a landmark that faces north.

[unreal gyro]

I like the letters 🤷‍♀️

@thin herald just doesn’t seem like it’s a common knowledge because everyone complains in-game

[thin herald]

Don literally said in one of his streams that Spire faces north.

[wispy lagoon]

yes but not everyone watches the streams..

[hexed delta]

The arrows point in the direction tbh

Down is south, up is north.

[fallen lynx]

Food will no longer be a problem when everyone plays Hypsi.

[unreal gyro]

@thin herald everyone doesn’t necessarily have the time to watch all the streams to gain the knowledge on how certain features should work....

[thin herald]

One word:
Clips

People clip everything from the streams.

[finite solstice]

Honestly, I never found the compass that useful, but that's just me. And isn't there a Northern star on one or both of the maps that appears too?

[thin herald]

The compass isn't very useful.

[unreal gyro]

So I should go through a third-party like YouTube to find a clip to know how the game should function?

[thin herald]

I think they should start making to where there is no UI (besides Admin panels). Would make the game more immersive.

Like after update 8

[unreal gyro]

I just remember when I first bought the isle and there was almost nothing explaining how things functioned. For an entire week I would spawn in as a juvi.....at night......in the rain......with no map. The first week I thought my game was broken because I didn’t know you couldn’t sniff in the rain. Part of that was bad luck but the other part was the fact that the game gave little to no instructions on how it function. But I agree with you on with less UI to make it more immersive. I guess my big thing is why have a UI if people have to use a third-party like YouTube or discord to know how it function. What is the point of having a map if I have to type in a third-party website to access it and the game doesn’t even explain there is this website.

[wispy lagoon]

because it's not an official website? the isle never planned to have a map as far as im aware

and why would there be no UI? should we have no character profile screen anymore?

if what you mean is the games HUD, then that's already so minimal, with you even being able to disable thirst and hunger icons, there is no HUD unless you sniff

[crystal wharf]

@raw cypress why do you want immortal dryo?

[wary otter]

its hard enough to track down a dryo running into dense jungle lol

[finite solstice]

Dryo should at least get a stam buff, but I don't think that it needs to be faster

[true ginkgo]

Dryo is impossible to catch in the forest already.

I escape utahs constantly

[marble pond]

Bad utahs... lol

If you can escape a solo utah hunter as a dryo using only jungle terrain, that's impressive. Massive utah packs can't hunt small prey because the pack's trail muddles the prey item's footsteps. But a solo adult utah hunting you, you can't escape unless they make a mistake.

And AI dryo only escape because AI don't lose stamina. Which is broken imo.

That said, dryo doesn't need more stamina.

[meager oriole]

I think you might be thinking of Tenonto, not Dryo

I lost a Utah really easily multiple times in Jungle, circling back too

Of course, experience doesn't exactly mean much over facts

Good Utahs would predict where the dryo would run to aswell

[dapper frost]

Yeah, as a dryo you just gotta be weird af dodging all around, circling back, crouching at random points, etc. Just be unpredictable as possible.

[meager oriole]

Dryo using less stam while dodging sounds better, Dryo as of now doesn't require a buff that would come to the top of MY head

Just my opinion

[dapper frost]

Yeah. Most i can think of is stam related things.

[meager oriole]

Tenonto is another story though, my mind changes what it needs a buff on 24/7

Kinda useless to spit out unviability when Tenonto is about to get Bleed and CC though

[marble pond]

Tenonto doesn't need buffs, it just needs its attacks to use the bleed and fracture features. Those mechanics are going to buff the shit out of it already, because then utahs won't be able to just go recharge to their full stam and pounce over and over. Utahs will have to

Yeah exactly. But also fractures are going to be major.

[meager oriole]

I'll wait to see how Tenonto performs after Update 2 before I make any final decisions

[marble pond]

Getting fractures from a tenonto kick should be near-fatal for a utah, as it will impede their hunting drastically and cause them to starve.

Certainly repeated kicks should do that, atleast.

[meager oriole]

Tenonto should 50/50 2 Utahs, not 50/50 4 Utahs

I think buffing the kick or tail slam is very risky in this regard

[marble pond]

It's hard to argue using that metric because most people that play a dinosaur don't know how to use it. Particularly dinosaurs with long growth times.

I think tenonto's potential is much higher than how it gets used in the game currently.

[meager oriole]

Again, experience doesn't mean much over facts

However in my experience, that's not true

I have a play tester group I play with and we meet up in a meeting every 2 weeks to get caught up on everything from real world scenarios

[marble pond]

But there's a lot of utah players that refuse to pounce, or refuse / don't know how to alt bite, and those are very powerful tools against a slower creature.

[meager oriole]

I can assure you, it feels like we definitely have reached Tenonto's limit

[marble pond]

OK, but I'm talking about the general playerbase.

So what's the case for shrinking tenonto? if it needs a buff

Shrinking it doesn't seem like a buff to me

[meager oriole]

Just people wanting Tenonto to be realistically sized

[true ginkgo]

if teno was realistic sized its entire niche and balance would need changing completely.

I think they were only like 800kg

[dapper frost]

Yeah idk if people are asking for exact irl size. Just a bit smaller but maybe im missing some saying that. Who knows

[idle tendon]

Yeah tenonto is pretty fictionalized

[sonic flame]

according to a quick google search, Tenonto has a weight somewhere between 2 and 4.5 tons

lemme dive a little bit deeper

cause Doctor Nova cites a size of 1.6 tons

[stark knoll]

1-2 tons for teno

[sonic flame]

2 tons sounds a bit heavy, but not unreasonable since it is slightly larger

if they made tenonto smaller they could honestly keep the same speed, and it would need a bit of a boost to it's attack damage to keep the Utah Tenonto matchup even

that would screw it over Vs carno a bit tho

[crystal wharf]

not really

smaller size for tenonto would help it hide in the forests that carno cant hunt effectively in and it would also make the front and back profile of the animal even harder to hit effectively

[modest carbon]

^ ok but I kinda like the beefy tenonto. I don't wanna see it shrunken down.

[raw cypress]

if it gets shrunken they need to decrease the grow time

[sour onyx]

@unreal gyro You can still see what direction it is, even without the letters. The line's top peak is facing north, and the its lowest point is in facing the south. 🙂

[unreal gyro]

Ya thanks 🙂 I still think they should put the letters because the peak and valley part of the compass isn’t common knowledge and most people have to ask to find out. At lease that has been my experience in game.

[sour onyx]

Yeah true. I think the letters should be toggleable in the game settings. 🙂

[unreal gyro]

Agreed

[modest carbon]

I feel like charging into another carno should knock you both down, or at least stun both of you

[sour onyx]

Mhmm, I agree too.

[grave veldt]

i feel like only certain teno attacks should cause bleed

like the claw and bite should cause bleed but not the kick or tail slam

[modest carbon]

I think kick should do bleed

they got claws on their back feet too

maybe not as much

but still should do bleed

[grave veldt]

yea but it would make more sense to balance as the back area of teno doing more dmg while the front does less but it has bleed

[modest carbon]

So make the front do more bleed than the kick

[sturdy stone]

Anything that involves claws/teeth/spikes, should cause bleed. Impact attacks such as a slamming tail I could see causing more bone damage instead of bleeding.

[modest carbon]

yes

[grave veldt]

any claw type attack should have bleed

[modest carbon]

I think the only attack that shouldnt do bleed would be the tail slam

[grave veldt]

ye

their gonna give that fracture abilties im pretty sure

[modest carbon]

Ooh

[grave veldt]

like a utah slamed by the teno would be put on low hp and be unable to move properly

[modest carbon]

yeah I like that idea

hopefully they add some beef to the tenonto

its pretty weak against utah rn

[grave veldt]

yea a solo utah shouldnt be killing ateno

teno*

unless the teno is absolutley just brain dead

i cant spell to save my life

[modest carbon]

Tenos are heavier than they look, they should be able to defend themselves easily against 2 or 3 utahs. And be equal to carnos

It just makes more sense I guess

[grave veldt]

i think ur post in balanced feed back is strong

a teno shouldnt be worrying about 1 or 2 utahs

[modest carbon]

👍

[novel tulip]

Internal bleeding is a thing

If a blunt object hits you at a fast enough speed it can cause it

[modest carbon]

Bruises, soreness, stiffness, etc. Would be an interesting element

Nothing that has a huge impact but enough to make say mud wallowing or better food a higher priority

[left scroll]

itd be good to see more things to encourage players to play their dino the way it was meant to be, like that. if you get hurt you could heal fine eating whatever, but you'd heal a lot better eating your specific food

helps balancing a lot as well

[modest carbon]

ahh so like, the benefits of it

nothing extreme

but just a little

congrats you are playing good

[left scroll]

yeah, not enough to necessarily punish players for playing a different way, but enough to make it feel rewarding when you do

[grave veldt]

having internal bleeding might be hard to balance

on top of bleeding in general

[gritty elk]

@hallow rose why didn't you like my comment?

[modest carbon]

ai isnt a high priority on the updates, it just gets added as its produced so don't expect much from the ai rn

[full wolf]

sentient dryos

[crystal wharf]

so nahivulka, you know legacy ai, and how it spawns around you and stuff?
forget that all
reject legacy, return to evrima

[thin herald]

Reject legacy like its the annoying kid that asks you out.

Evrima is the true crush.

[rapid charm]

I so far haven’t died due to lack of food so

[fossil mirage]

That troodon/ovi suggestion =bad.😐

[lean shoal]

what their trying to say is that troo dosent need mimicry and it will likely be broken on it where as ovi could utilize it without being a massive threat to the entire ecosystem for a large time period.

can you picture a carno walking around at night only to hear a delicious dryo squeak. where in it runs after the sound to be ambushed and ripped apart by troodons.

[fossil mirage]

I know what they said. I'm just not for the idea. I want devs to keep it for troodon. . and yep. That's it. Ovi is supposed to be a egg stealing thief but depending on noise to attract prey ? Is he not supposed to be stealthy and quiet. I don't think drawing attention to himself is a good idea. I'll keep it at that. ✌based on what i dmed punch like 2/3 weeks ago. Looks like it's still planned. So hopefully it stays like that.

[slim dragon]

I agree that Troodon is more suited for mimicry than Ovi. Sure, that's a lot of abilities, but Troodon will probably be bad at pretty much everything. Slower than raptors, no strong bite, no armor, no super-agility, no big claws... It's gonna be a dino that requires to play smart. And as such, mimicry is very appopriate.

[dapper frost]

dont need a strong bite when it got venom

[slim dragon]

But I agree that Ovi would need something else to stand out too. I don't know what exactly, but I guess devs will figure out.

[dapper frost]

sure it may be slower than utah but it will be fast af

[slim dragon]

It probably won't be a killing venom.

[dapper frost]

what will it be then. all we really have to go off for its venom is its concept art where a teno is dying due to venom

[finite solstice]

Teno literally dying to venom

[dapper frost]

lul lost to 3 troodons

[slim dragon]

Heh, it's just concept art

[finite solstice]

just?

[dapper frost]

yeah. but from what we know its the most likely thing to happen

[slim dragon]

I don't know, maybe its venom will be lethal, but it will probably need many bites to kill a thing such as teno, and venom won't be unlimited (from what I've heard)

[dapper frost]

then dont fight tenos

troodon will need to be in groups to take on larger thing

[slim dragon]

I know

[finite solstice]

Then how the fuck will ovi be better at stealing eggs? We've literally heard nothing about it, we're just supposed to take the devs word for it.

With mimicry it can at least lure away parents

[dapper frost]

if not ovi at least mono

[slim dragon]

I don't think mimicry would help Ovi to steal eggs a lot. Like, if you are guarding your nest, know Ovi is in the game and hear an alluring sound, you'll know it's probably an ovi.

[dapper frost]

if they know your there thats your fault

[slim dragon]

Maybe Ovi will just be able to break much larger eggs than other dinos using its beak ?

They know ovi is in the game not around.

[finite solstice]

That's it? Really? It still has to get to the eggs and steal them

[dapper frost]

so ovis tactics are just nullified because there is a chance there is one in existence on the map

[slim dragon]

It will have an easier time finding and eating eggs if it can raid any nest. But I agree maybe it's just not enough. I'm just throwing around ideas.

I'm not firmly opposed to Ovi mimicry, my point was just that it would fit Troodon better.

[dapper frost]

I think the notion it fits troo is fine. But it already has other powerful abilities while there is 2 potential candidates for mimicry who are lackluster atm aka mono and ovi

[finite solstice]

Tbh just based on looks, ovi looks like it could actually perform mimicry as opposed to troo. Though that could just be me because ovi looks a lot more bird-like

[fossil mirage]

😂"with mimicry it can atleast lure away parents"...ovi using mimicry to lure me away from my eggs sounds dumb and worthless. This wouldn't work. Why would i leave my kid to follow something that sounds like me. 😂 to add on, why would my juvie follow it if I'm there. Make it make sense.

[dapper frost]

Depends on the noises

[fossil mirage]

😂ok. 👌

[slim dragon]

Let's just ask the devs to give mimicry to every dino

[dapper frost]

[slim dragon]

except rex because we hate rexes

[finite solstice]

Spino mimicry

[slim dragon]

oh yeah

[finite solstice]

It mimics the sound of fish to lure 'em in

[unreal gyro]

I was thinking it would be helpful if there were at lease 2 Ovis and one made a distressed call of a juvi Dino that you were hunting. The parents would get up to help the baby while the other ovi would run in and steal an egg or a hatchling.

[dapper frost]

mimicry is odd since its super complex. depends on where you are, what lives there, what you are trying to steal from, what type of players they are, how many do they have, how many do you have, etc

[unreal gyro]

Have you met any herbi players on the isle? If you had a mother and father trike and they heard a juvi trike over in the bushes 4calling and then heard a small Predator like a velo. I would bet my life they would get up and go save this juvi that isn’t theirs.

[obtuse shuttle]

Is more a dryo pair running away from a red call

[slim dragon]

I've been wondering about that Ovi egg-stealing problem, what do actual egg-stealing animals do ? Are there any animals in real life that live off mainly from eating eggs ?

[finite solstice]

Egg eating snakes

But they are snakes. Thin and stealthy, not a decently sized bird with bright-ass colors

[slim dragon]

Allow Ovi to burrow and travel underground like a mole then

[solemn haven]

What? Why? Lol

They just need to be fast and able to carry an egg off

[dapper frost]

mole ovi

[solemn haven]

I'm pretty sure other things can eat eggs too, not just Ovi

[dapper frost]

yeah

roadmap also mentions galli yoinking eggs

[unreal gyro]

Ya but Galli has speed

[dapper frost]

mole ovi that digs into your body eating the eggs from inside you

[finite solstice]

Perfection

[solemn haven]

I mean Galli was omnivorous IRL so it will probably enjoy an egg or two as well

I don't quite know why Galli being fast would mean an Ovi can't also be fast

[finite solstice]

Ovi can be fast, it's just probably not going to be as fast due to size difference

[solemn haven]

Yeah of course

[unreal gyro]

Just because this is a game and it would be nice to have variety of skill settings for each dinosaur instead of a copy and paste

And to make it challenging for each dinosaur.

[modest carbon]

Ovi should be fast, and maybe more agile than galli

galli can be like carno and be a bullet train

[modest carbon]

Its kinda disappointing how short of a fall utah can take without taking damage

Maybe if there was a different between sprains, fractures, and straight up breaks

[thin herald]

@clever quiver Tenonto will get CC (crowd control for anyone that doesn't know what cc means) in update 2.

[clever quiver]

wym by crowd control

[lean shoal]

it will knock utah down with its tail slam and possibly its kick.

[clever quiver]

oh shit nice. 🙏

[modest carbon]

Hopefully it's kick also knocks down, especially when hitting a Utah thats pouncing

[grave veldt]

Seeing how the stego is I’m guessing it should be balanced as a herbi apex

Since it can’t run from a spino or a rex

[cedar shore]

Its probably gona be a loong while before actual apexes get added

Also oviraptor should have its special ability beeing able to snatch eggs from nests, unlike gallimimusses

[lean shoal]

every carnivore will be able to snatch eggs

just ovi will prefer to do it.

[modest carbon]

like a diet thing?

because that would be awesome

[orchid depot]

every carnivore will be able to snatch eggs
just ovi will prefer to do it.
@lean shoal who said that??

that sounds wrong

[modest carbon]

I think only small dinos should take eggs

[lean shoal]

multiple devs have stated that every carnivore can eat eggs.

just some like ovi will get more benefits from them.

only confirmed omnivore i dont see eating eggs is beip because of its limited diet.

[sonic flame]

"only confirmed omnivore"

"Guess I'll die"

[orchid depot]

@sonic flame
Oviraptor: am I a joke to you?

[orchid depot]

hey look, an idiot who didn't read the chat
edit: I am that idiot

[sonic flame]

I am leaving that in there because I am too lazy to edit posts

but fair enough

[hallow rose]

[modest carbon]

Thats like venom for magy

Only its inevitable and they dont have to bite you

[hollow osprey]

I mean poison could instead drain hunger/thirst than stamina or both. Poison and venom have different meanings in the wild

Poison does not necessarily equal to venom

[modest carbon]

Maybe if you continue biting the nausea could stack up until you are forced to throw up and get your hunger locked

[lean shoal]

[fossil sun]

[modest carbon]

hm

I dont think you should get any sort of debuff when you bite a magy, you are gonna be hunted regardless and you chose that upon becoming a magy. The yucky corpse is good enough on its own aye,

[obtuse shuttle]

When people keep thinking magy is toxic despite only tasting bad and being added before the poison/venom update

[unreal gyro]

Night and day cycle is going to be released with update 2 soooo..... it’s not out of the range of possibilities

[idle tendon]

.. its a suggestion to make it actually viable

right now its going to be a punching bag

kill it and move on

[obtuse shuttle]

No, its a suggestion that makes It a perfect griefing machine, if its toxic even when getting bitten, It can troll carnivores bigger than It but these carnivores cant do anything without dying to the poison

[finite solstice]

My main gripe with the magy suggestion is the lock jaw. Not only does it make little sense, it's also OP as shit. At that point just make the carnivore sick, don't take away its primary defense and consumption tool

[hallow rose]

when people discuss the balance of a creature thats months away instead of focusing on what we have now

[wary otter]

well better than telling the devs that they dont like the dinosaur 3 days before the update launches

[lean shoal]

it would work fine if the trees just blocked them from moving.

or a direct hit caused mild fractures.

[obtuse shuttle]

Also, a 1 ton animal being the one knocking trees down?

But trike or Rex cant?

[lean shoal]

trike will knock down trees

at least smaller ones

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/689770030485078067/image0.png

there was talk of trike beg able to just plow trees over if it ran into them head on.

[unreal gyro]

Only toxic if the Magy keeps eating the right plants. it will count on how many plants the devs make available. So that should give carnivores plenty of time to hunt it. Tbh it time for a herbi to get a OP skill. Which again if you can see the colors on the Magy just don’t bite it. If you’re dumb enough to bite it then you deserve to win the prize.

[finite solstice]

You see, if the magy is fast (which it will most likely be), it can just run in during a fight between other carnivores so one accidentally bites the magy, locking its jaw and causing it to lose the fight. I'm not against making magy viable and fun, I'm against the lock-jaw idea. Giving the carnivore intense sickness, nausea and stat debuffs from biting magy to the point where the carni is an easy kill is enough. The lock-jaw just doesn't make sense imo

[unreal gyro]

I also got the idea of the symptoms from the bacteria called tetanus. So it’s a real thing and there are some animals in the real world that hold chemicals or bacteria in their skin that cause these symptoms. So it wasn’t like I completely pulled this out of my butt

[true ginkgo]

People legit not understanding how small magy is. They want it to trample carno and smash down trees.

It's half the weight of in game teno.

[unreal gyro]

Accidents happen. If I accidentally step on a snake and it bites me I’m going to suffer the same consequences as if I had tried to pick it up. I just have a hard time seeing how you accidentally bite something that is going to be brightly colored which is like a sign saying don’t bite me. At lease with the lockjaw you are coherent and able to run away and have your senses. It makes you pay for a time and then you will be fine. Just make sure you don’t run into other dinos.

[unreal gyro]

Ikr

[finite solstice]

I'm talking about magys purposely running into a fight between 2 or more carnivores to troll. This status effect is okay on slow creatures, ones that can't try to cause harm to other players that way. Again, just giving the carnivore intense sickness and stat debuffs where it's extremely vulnerable, it just won't be worth it anymore

[unreal gyro]

I just don’t think it’s going to be as fast as what you think it will be. Maybe that is just my perception from the animation videos they released on the Magy. And I would agree with you if it was as fast as a Utah or similar but tbh I think it’s speed is going to be more like a stego. So personal if you are fighting another carnivore and allow something to run (the speed of a stego) into the middle of your fight and you bite it you should have to pay the consequences. And in the end if it’s lockjaw or you throwing up you are going to be stuck in a animation long enough that you are going to die anyways.

[finite solstice]

The speed thing is a bit of a mystery tbh as the devs said faster than allo at one point, yet the animation says otherwise, but I can't argue rn, busy

[unreal gyro]

Ya I can’t really see it running faster then a allo. Is the weight and size of a bull so I would imagine it would only be as fast as one which isn’t to fast.

[orchid depot]

kissen was being dumb
bryan confirmed that there is no way magy is running faster than allo

[lean shoal]

kissen was just getting up everyones hopes.

[hearty slate]

Magy just seems to be a mini fat necked sauropod that’ll taste bad

[orchid depot]

that seems to be a reccuring theme in this game's development

[lean shoal]

magy will have insane cc for its size but that wont help it against allo or alberto.

[raw cypress]

or apexes

or deino

or other herbis

[lean shoal]

kissen is always vague and evasive or blatantly gives out misinformation on accadent.

[orchid depot]

I still ask myself to this day
how did they choose magy

out of every sauropod they could've used

[lean shoal]

because aparently amargo was too big for what they wanted.

[orchid depot]

camara, amargo, bajada, titano,

[lean shoal]

camara is 15-20 tons.

[raw cypress]

titano is invalid i think

[orchid depot]

too big
more like too viable

[unreal gyro]

Are they kicking camara?

[lean shoal]

no

[orchid depot]

they replaced it with magy for the moment, though they may add it in the future, idk

[raw cypress]

they're kicking pue

[lean shoal]

camara was never replaced

[raw cypress]

^

[lean shoal]

its just massive so its coming far in the future.

[raw cypress]

youre underestimating how big cama is

[unreal gyro]

Is pue being kicked?

[orchid depot]

oh alrighht

[raw cypress]

yes

[orchid depot]

pue is the only sauropod gone for good

[lean shoal]

people that still think c.supremus is < 8 tons when its closer to 20.

[orchid depot]

#RipPue

[unreal gyro]

Dang I feel the pue would be good ai

[lean shoal]

pue is the only animal confirmed to be removed or replaced.

[orchid depot]

you sure shant wasn't?

[lean shoal]

shant is not confirmed gone

[orchid depot]

dondi wanted it gone though, iirc

[raw cypress]

shant is confirmed staying lmfao

it was said in the first devlog

[lean shoal]

that random thing was killed a year ago. shant is still staying.

[raw cypress]

because dondi is a carni fanboy

[orchid depot]

wow, I don't know how to feel abt that
I don't like shant, especially its op stomp attack

[lean shoal]

shant is just a really really long way off.

[raw cypress]

legacy moment

[lean shoal]

shants stomp is being removed.

[orchid depot]

they may balance it out in evrima but
honestly whenever i see that thing

i'll think about broken legacy

[raw cypress]

i don't think the stomp is getting removed

but

legacy shant is a sandbox dino

so its really op

[orchid depot]

it'll be nerfed for sure

not gonna make me stop hating it tho

[lean shoal]

its being at least majorly changed. still makes more sense for it to have a slow batter with its front legs.

[raw cypress]

i want shant to still be able to take on rexes
just not as effectively

[lean shoal]

shant will just be a wall of flesh.

i can see it wanting to run from rex or giga.

[raw cypress]

why

[lean shoal]

just it should still be able to fight them.

[raw cypress]

it doesnt have any specific adaptations for running

it doesn't have long legs

[lean shoal]

hadrosaurs do.

[raw cypress]

and it's really bulky

so it wouldn't be the fastest thing around

[orchid depot]

shant doesn't really have natural defenses besides it's tail, and its front legs
which aren't long enough to effectively stomp an apex

[raw cypress]

faster than big carnis but not by much

[lean shoal]

shant should still be able to run or fight. trike anky and stego will just be fight.

[raw cypress]

i mean

they changed anky

so that it can run

[lean shoal]

trike anky and stego - fight. theri and shant - lean flight but can fight.

[raw cypress]

which i also think is dumb

[orchid depot]

wait huh???

anky is a runner now? EW

[raw cypress]

yeah but why would shant and THERI of all things

[lean shoal]

they should be able to run if they choose to but should still be a threat.

[raw cypress]

lean flight

theri has scythes for fingers

and shant is giagntic

[orchid depot]

anky. runs. now.

how

[lean shoal]

they are likely going to be the only ones that can move faster than the other apexes.

[lean shoal]

also a rumor that was beat down.

[raw cypress]

if anky can't move faster than apexes with the new design it'll be unviable as all hell

[lean shoal]

anky just needs to be a bit faster so it dosent take one ages to move across the map.

[raw cypress]

they removed most of the armour and made the legs long

[orchid depot]

an apex can't even close it's jaws around anky's body.
anky is viable imo

[raw cypress]

they made anky shit

[orchid depot]

i saw that design. they said it's a WIP, didn't they?

they can alter proportions still

[obtuse shuttle]

they can

[raw cypress]

kinda late to go back now
they already made the model

[obtuse shuttle]

they wont

[lean shoal]

everything in phase 2 is technically wip. models are harder to change than concepts.

[obtuse shuttle]

they seem to hate anky

[orchid depot]

honestly

[lean shoal]

bryan hates anky

[obtuse shuttle]

and really love mammal like dinosaurs

[lean shoal]

jake did saurians anky and denversaurus

[raw cypress]

idk why they decided to ruin anky over bryan being unable to animate it

just hire another animator

[lean shoal]

yeah bryan needs a break

give him a 3 month vacation and have another animator help for a while.

[orchid depot]

^

bryan's animations have lately been

[lean shoal]

emu carno

[orchid depot]

emu

yes

emu is what, 120 pounds according to google

that's less than an average adult human

[raw cypress]

like, make a mix of these two designs for anky

[orchid depot]

and you would use that

[lean shoal]

or just use the fan made edit everyone loved.

[raw cypress]

eh

that doesn't fix all of the problems

its still a rhino

and still has tumours on the front legs

[orchid depot]

it needs smaller legs

[obtuse shuttle]

you just dont change the image of something iconic and expect people to like it

[lean shoal]

arm guards*

[raw cypress]

no, tumours

[unreal gyro]

I like that one

[obtuse shuttle]

this is way hyspsi and teno work, because no one likes them as animals

[raw cypress]

if they wanted something to protect the arms

put fucking armour on

[lean shoal]

then can we call honeybadger skin tumors?

[raw cypress]

like the rest of the animal

[orchid depot]

they need way shorter limbs, so it's harder for predators to reach under them
not longer ones so they can run away lmao

[lean shoal]

people dont like hypsi because its obviously just a bird stuck on an oro clone.

[orchid depot]

that's just not anky

[raw cypress]

give anky treads

like on a tank

[lean shoal]

ngl im waiting to see something move like arks diplo. legit what the community has stated they dont want.

[raw cypress]

itll just roll across the ground

EWWW

[lean shoal]

wrong diplo

[orchid depot]

WHY DOES DIPLOCAULUS HAVE HAIR

[lean shoal]

thats a fin

[orchid depot]

[raw cypress]

hell of a raggedy fin

[orchid depot]

disgusting as hell

[lean shoal]

https://youtu.be/I-rAauEo8-8?t=17

diplosaurus