balance-feedback-discussion

[forest spindle]

Passive damage is why it has spikes

Irl at least the spikes there merciless

Why can't we get something similar ingame?

[prisma forge]

I don’t want any playable to do passive damage

Retaliation should be something willful. Plus I think it’s a little hard to keep consistent, maybe a troodon pounces you or bites you and loses a third of its health for a successful sneak attack

[forest spindle]

Balance wise well the game doesn't have to be fair

[hasty coyote]

Because this isn’t irl, it’s a game that needs to be balanced like a game.

[prisma forge]

Realism is inferior to gameplay quality and fairness in the list of development priorities

Anthrax is also realistic. Don’t think it would be good to blight herbivores with it at random

[forest spindle]

Venomous animals like Dilo and Troodon well.
Troodon would die uppon jumping on Kentro and Dilo could hunt Kentro even if envenomising the prey cost you to bleed

[forest spindle]

Well okay but Kentro could do passive bleed damage uppon being attacked or damage reflection

[prisma forge]

I don’t support it then

I don’t think it’s good to have literally unavailable prey like that.

There’s spots where kentro has no spikes and it would be hard with latency to get pounders or done attackers to strike there. Mandatory damage is bad, period

[forest spindle]

Allo and Cera would bleed heavily after biting Kentro multiple times

[forest spindle]

Well if the bite is on a weakspot then the bleed and damage reflection wouldn't happen

[prisma forge]

So who is supposed to fight kentro then?

And as Wave said, you’re basically suggesting magy but better

[prisma forge]

But as I said, that isn’t reliable in a multiplayer game

It would be rng or even a bit exploitable with lag switching kentros

[forest spindle]

So only if you bite specific parts of the Kentro excluding the head and hind legs + behind the shoulder spike.

[forest spindle]

Yes

It would be unfair

[prisma forge]

It would not be reliable with latency

[forest spindle]

It would be something that you would carefully aim to do as a Cera while hunting Kentro

But you are not meant to hunt Kentro

Some animals are not for everyone

If they take that away what makes Kentro Unique?

What makes Kentro balanced if it just a melee mace with spikes

[prisma forge]

Dude

[prisma forge]

There’s no care to have if you have the slightest bit of lag. You would be punished for not having 2 ping

[hasty coyote]

It does, it’s just not the standard method of “fair”. Not everyone has to fight, but you have to be able to survive and not be oppressive to other species. Kentro being able to just survive anything smaller than itself purely by sitting in defensive mode, facing the target, and the target kills itself on the thorns is way too strong. Let alone the fact it can also attack while in defense mode and be able to win against much larger targets too.

It def could use some thorns damage, but it needs plenty of limitations and should not be insanely strong.

[forest spindle]

This is why I will include the calculations in the suggestion

[prisma forge]

Definitely the rest of the kit

And who isn’t supposed to hunt a kentro? Everyone who cannot take the damage? By then you’re not making a hard counter, but an artificial barrier

[forest spindle]

Damage + bleed and damage taken
= survivability to all animals on roster

[forest spindle]

Hunting kentro would not be easy.

But calling is a barrier is an exaggeration

When did balance became
Let's bend thd rules because I don't like it.
Its unfair

[prisma forge]

It absolutely is meant to be fair

Fair as in making it so everyone has a chance to survive without being oppressive to others as you just said. A teno sized stegosaur making a 1v1 literally unwinnable for things with far less health isn’t fun to engage with and also rather broken

[forest spindle]

They won't engage

[prisma forge]

You don’t think that being able to cause enough bleed for something to bleed out without throwing a single attack yourself isn’t a barrier? There would be playable mathematically incapable of doing anything

[forest spindle]

Those who would
They die

[prisma forge]

Does “not engage” sound like some fun and interesting for you?

[forest spindle]

There's no balance to speak of it would be a bad decision as an Omni to hunt an adult Kentro

Balance is not allowing a fair and equal fight between two animals

[prisma forge]

I think that omni should have a very hard time and it definitely does already. Only the absolute best omnis can take on a full grown teno or kentro alone and only if they’re mediocre or bad

Kentro doesn’t need to simply sit there doing nothing and reflecting damage to survive omnis

And again, you’re making magy but powercreeping magy

What are you gonna do with that little guy?

[prisma forge]

I never said that

[forest spindle]

You implied to that

[prisma forge]

I bothered to clarify #balance-feedback-discussion message

fair as in making it so everyone has a chance to survive

That’s not fighting, just survival

[forest spindle]

Oh okay

[prisma forge]

Fleeing is surviving

And without reflecting damage mentor still obliterates omnis

There’s no fair fight to be had

[forest spindle]

I thought meant to survive by not dying in an encounter

[prisma forge]

I mean that

But you can not die by fleeing

[forest spindle]

Well...

Yes you can but that's off thd point

Kentro could do passive damage but in the while be balanced.

[prisma forge]

Still, kentro giving passive damage on contact is unfair and unnecessary

[forest spindle]

Its point is to be unfair

[prisma forge]

Then it isn’t balanced

It’s a contradiction

If it’s unfair then it is unneeded in this game

[forest spindle]

The balancing factor is how you approach it.
The Kentro itself whether you know the Kentro or not.
You know the weakspots you know how much bleed you can endure.
Its not based on
I am gonna kill that thing and those spikes better do nothing

Softness makes a game balanced and fair and all this nonsense

[prisma forge]

We went over this already

Weakspots wouldn’t work and anyone with the slightest clue of how multiplayer PVP games work knows why

[forest spindle]

They would kick the chair out of every one of is by just doing it

[prisma forge]

And what softness

Kentro doesn’t struggle killing ceras, carnos, omnis or troodons now

Why does it need to do damage for the other person attacking them now?

[forest spindle]

Thay you would not allow Kentro to do passive damage only with restrictions

That's not balancing

[prisma forge]

Yeah, because it is an extremely toxic mechanic

[forest spindle]

That shaping the game to your own idea

[prisma forge]

It’s not my idea, I’m literally saying what the devs say

[forest spindle]

Passive mechanics are not toxic. They are reasonable

[prisma forge]

They want to make things abide but fairness

An unfair ability would not fit in

[hasty coyote]

Is that not the exact same thing you’re doing? Or that we all are doing?

[forest spindle]

The devs say Kentro right now doesn't do enough damage

[prisma forge]

They’re not

Give me a SINGLE case in gaming where a character was given passive contact damage and wasn’t despised for it by everyone but their mains

[forest spindle]

I suggest an unfair but balance able mechanic that can be balance by adjusting the damage takes bleed effect other variables

[prisma forge]

With the reflect? Yeah because the defense stance is bugged

And the defense stance only covers one side

[hasty coyote]

Kentro’s main issues currently are specifically against allo and Diablo. Diablo can be solved by bumping up kentro’s speed and nothing else, because diablos can stunlock them and eat the bleed. Allos just have WAY too much damage as is atm, which is making kentro suffer.

[prisma forge]

Dude. Just let it go.

How on earth is it sensible to say that a mechanic can be both unfair and balanced at the same time

Unfair means the other person has no agency over it

[hasty coyote]

And that is shaping the game to your idea. We all want the game to be what we believe is best. We just all have different ideas of “best”.

[prisma forge]

It cannot be balanced if it isn’t the other person’s fault and they don’t have ways to engage with it

[forest spindle]

Its not the best its an idea

[forest spindle]

Wait until the Devblog and Check what Dondi said.

Balancing is not making something fair

Balancing is making something you can able to counter something

Balancing is done by numbers

Balancing is done by mechanics that can counter each other

The numbers here are variables

[prisma forge]

Then it is fair!!!!

Because if you didn’t counter it (unless the counter is unreasonable, like just outstating someone to win in an asymmetric game like this one), then it would be your fault when punished

It’s so easy

Things are balanced when they are fair

Otherwise they are not equal or giving just punishments, and thus it is unfair

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I’d like kentro to have some minor thorns if you bite specifically the spikes and have the non-spike areas take priority over the spikes with hitboxes. This thorns should deal ~25% of the damage done as bleed to the target, with a max of ~50 bleed. Enough to stack up a bit, but not enough to just kill anything that should be attacking a kentro, as well as being avoidable.

Defense mode though should have the thorns increased by making the spikes do reflect if you touch them at all with your attack hitbox. As well as potentially upping the bleed a bit to like 35%. Plus having defense mode actually give it some solid defensive buffs.

Then also have it deal like a Dino’s face pounce damage back at it as damage and bleed for pouncing on the spikes.

[prisma forge]

I personally would like to not have passive reflect because of lag but maybe it is more manageable if you hit as Kentro is defending that particular side

[hasty coyote]

My exact number may end up too high, but imo kentro could work fine with minor thorns damage IF there are ways around it and it isn’t too major.

[hasty coyote]

As long as they make the body take priority and the thorns not too insane, it should be fine. Because lag ruins every fight tbh, it would be like nerfing stego because sometimes lag happens and you get hit from a mile away

[prisma forge]

Hmmm fine

But not too much, maybe even like some percentage

I think smaller carnivores should have a chance and taking on a kentro if they’re good enough

[vagrant crater]

Easy way around it would be the head right? Kentros spikes are only toward the back anyway so leaving headshots open entirely would give a good avenue of opening that's only really mitigated by player skill

[forest spindle]

So please tell me how to improve the suggestion

Biting the tiny head of Kentro would not do passive bleed damage on the attacker

[hasty coyote]

That’s why I made it a percentage in mine at least. That way even if lag is being horrendous, you still can most likely still kill it before the bleed even threatens you. Especially if you actually get headshots or attack the open side. Biggest issue would be a kentro in defensive stance potentially killing an Omni with bleed, but tbh if the Omni is constantly biting the spike side, it’s not gonna have a good time regardless lol.

[forest spindle]

Bleed damage as Kentro would only cause the attacker either its a herbivore or carnivore or ne another Kentro.
To bleed

So killed a Kentro would put the attacker into a disadvantage

But it can be survived if the attacker knows when to stop

Or hits the weak spots

3 weakspots on Kentro
2 above the hind legs on either side
And the head

[hasty coyote]

Personally, keeping it a small percentage and purely or mostly bleed would help with a lot of the issues. Then you could probably buff the amount of bleed on the side it guards with defense stance.

[forest spindle]

Yes

Player input damage would be larger than passive damage so its not UNBALANCED

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-movie-avengers-infinity-war-gif-18122928

[hasty coyote]

The thorns alone should generally not be killing things. Unless it’s an extreme example of someone repeatedly biting the spines and that player would already likely just die to a single tail swing anyway.

[forest spindle]

They could kill things but indirectly because of the bleed

[prisma forge]

You understand how to balance a game

[forest spindle]

So yeah falling on a Kentro as an Omni or Herrera would be comical and lethal

Like you remember how Omni sticks to the thegoniser of Stego

[hasty coyote]

Herrera falling on kentro spikes really needs to just instantly impale it. It would be SO funny

[prisma forge]

When it gets hit

[forest spindle]

Imagine someone similar with Troodon and Herrera

[prisma forge]

True

[forest spindle]

I agree

I think in the Isle the balancing factor is our decision

[hasty coyote]

And Herrera ain’t attacking kentro anyway so it’s not an issue

[forest spindle]

Not everything would be balanced like if it looks like that decision will kill you
You expect yourself to be dead

As you are a Herrera jumping on a Kentro

[vagrant crater]

While a squired Herrera is a fun visual. I don't think any dino should be immune to a Herrera punishing them from above. Would be a crazy move to headshot Kentro, but should still be possible for a Herrera and high risk

[forest spindle]

Come on

Herrera would not kill Kentro

[prisma forge]

Herrera should kill at least juvi kents

Those should do no damage on contact

[forest spindle]

Yes I agree but the spikes could do some damage

[forest spindle]

They should but rather fracture or little damage

Jumping in a juvenile Kentro as a Herrera could leave you body fractured

You got your kill but your body is broken

So yeah bare the consequences of your decision

[prisma forge]

No lol

[forest spindle]

Why?

[prisma forge]

Juvenile kents literally have nothing

And a fracture for killing a juvenile is absurd

[hasty coyote]

Yeah the thorns should prob scale with age, as well as the capability to impale

[forest spindle]

Its unbalanced if actions doesn't have consequences

[forest spindle]

Rather you just on small not so point spikes

[hasty coyote]

Also yeah if you managed to land on the head you should be fine, land a bit further down and you’re now a kebab

[forest spindle]

What blunt spikes do?
They break your bones

[prisma forge]

Actions should have consequences

But you ought to substantiate how is it not insanity and overdone to do fractures to a Herrera for jumping something like a fresh spawn kent

[vagrant crater]

Herrera jumping on Kentro back definitely should cause damage to the Herrera. Herrera landing a headshot on Kentro which has no defenses on its head should be the same protocol for headshots on any other species without skull protection

[forest spindle]

Yes

[prisma forge]

They don’t but sure

[prisma forge]

That wasn’t a yes or no request

[forest spindle]

If I want to break your bones I won't use a sharp object

I would use a rock 🪨 or a log or a mallet

[prisma forge]

Both would work to break bones

But it’s arbitrary to say fresh spawn kentro should fracture or hurt Herrera but steg, baby trike, baby dibble or pachy won’t

[forest spindle]

I say a Herrera could get body fractures from jumping on a Juvenile Kentro.
And turn into Turkish kebab from jumping on an adult.

[prisma forge]

It’s also unreasonable and you haven’t justified that yet

Like please

I’m asking you to substantiate this from a gameplay perspective

How is it not unreasonable to fracture an adult predator for jumping on top of a way smaller creature that hasn’t grown it’s defended yet ?

[forest spindle]

From a gameplay perspective its believable its reasonable and make sense

[prisma forge]

You didn’t answer

From a gameplay perspective means in terms of balancing and gameplay quality. What does this special pleading offer to the game?

[forest spindle]

By being a bad idea and body fracture is not that of a great punishment

[prisma forge]

Something being believable or realistic has nothing to do with gameplay

[forest spindle]

Especially for Herrera

[forest spindle]

It makes the gameplay smart and reasonable sensible

Use your brain

[prisma forge]

1. This doesn’t answer anything
2. It is for Herrera. Body fracture makes it incapable of doing anything for a while

[forest spindle]

You could still eat

Drink and move around

You could eat the Kentro you just killed

But otherwise it sounded a bad idea

[prisma forge]

And what do you mean “use your brain”?

I’ve been charitable and good faith to you so far, and I just asked a question that isn’t being answered.

And this is kind of a double standard anyway. It isn’t sensible for herrera to jump a 40-50kg kentro unharmed but it is fine for it to do that on everything else including dibbles and trikes?

And I am asking you why it is reasonable. It’s fallacious to respond with “because it’s reasonable”.

[prisma forge]

A body fracture would make moving upwards and jumping around in rocks and trees much more limited, and would make you unable to defend your kill. It’s a free punishment that in no way enriches the gameplay.

[forest spindle]

Use your brain ingame.
Try to understand what your actions ingame would do.
If you think this would break your bones.
They don't do it.
If you do it then you expect the game to give you body fracture

[prisma forge]

I think it would break my bones to do a 5 meter fall as a Herrera and it turns out that I receive no damage from dropping from somewhere like that.

Am I not using my brain there?

[forest spindle]

It would be a consequence that you as the player Herrera would either accept or fight against it and die

[forest spindle]

Well I was not talking about these kind of consequences

[prisma forge]

It’s internally inconsistent to declare kentro should insta fracture herrera as a fresh spawn but not dibble or trike…Or any plunge into someone for that matter

[forest spindle]

But rather jumping in little blunt spikes from 50ft

[prisma forge]

I am taking your words at face value. It would be sensible to expect that outcome but it doesn’t happen, meaning that making the exception with kentro would be inconsistent

[forest spindle]

That would leave a Herrera a wee bit broken

[forest spindle]

I was talking about more extremely stuff than a 15ft fall

[prisma forge]

This is exhausting

[forest spindle]

We are just chatting

[prisma forge]

You don’t think that’s a lot for a 200kg animal?

[prisma forge]

Well no because conversations imply an exchange

And it feels like I am the only one taking in information

[forest spindle]

I read what you say and try to answer that

[prisma forge]

Doesn’t seem like it

[forest spindle]

I don't think its a lot

[prisma forge]

You should

[forest spindle]

Should?

[forest spindle]

I should?

Please don't get personal

[prisma forge]

a 15ft fall for a 200kg creature would shatter so many bones

Not personal, I’m chill. Just a little tired

Because I don’t see how violating the rules the game establishes somehow makes gameplay better

Herrera can also drop down to rocks without any problem and drop down 40-60ft to latch on elsewhere like a tree or rock

That’s far more radical than jumping on a baby kentro at a height where it can kill it

[forest spindle]

But the blunt spikes

[prisma forge]

But the rocks

[forest spindle]

Rocks are surface you can grab

[prisma forge]

Still rocks

[forest spindle]

But the blunt spikes are just there

And you are falling on them

[prisma forge]

And you’re falling down on them super fast

[prisma forge]

But the rocks are just there

And I am falling on them

[forest spindle]

Its amazing physics and dynamics but Herrera can survive the latching its claws lose its sleed once in contact with the rock.

At Kentro the blunt spikes just hit your body with no way to make you slow down

[prisma forge]

This shows that making kentro an exception is objectively inconsistent with the rules the game establishes for herrera

It would be unexpected, unneeded and bizarre to make herrera fracture its body for jumping something that is less than a baby stego (which has plates), a dibble on the head or a trike on the head

[forest spindle]

You kill the Kentro but it would leave you fractured

There's no free kill

[prisma forge]

That would break its arms, if not outright rip them off

[prisma forge]

The kill was never free because the herra set up the ambush

As said, it’s internally inconsistent to make kentro do this as a fresh spawn

[forest spindle]

Big cats do what Herrera does and they survive

[prisma forge]

False actually

[forest spindle]

Its up to player skills

[prisma forge]

I know what you’re talking about but herra takes it a step further

Because it weighs 4 times more than a large leopard and it is jumping at times from twice the height

[forest spindle]

As its a reptile its hard for us to believe that Herrera is real

[prisma forge]

So the herra earned the kill with its skill and shouldn’t be punished with it?

[forest spindle]

Just realistic

[prisma forge]

What does that have to do with my rebuttal?

[forest spindle]

I think balanced would be based on common sense and realism

[prisma forge]

Then I don’t think you know what balanced is

[forest spindle]

Well it's just a way for me to steer the topic away from getting into that

[prisma forge]

I thought we had moved on from that

Gameplay and its balance takes priority over realism

[prisma forge]

Bad faith?

Okay, imma head out

Pivoting away from getting pinned down on your own talking point and admitting to it in a discussion is

[forest spindle]

I don't want to talk about how realistic Herrera is when jumping and climbing

I just proposed the idea how it looks like a bad idea to jump on a Juvenile Kentro

Because of the blunt spikes

What is balance to you?

Not having consequences after anything

Everything is watered down so combat becomes unnecessary slow?

You get rid of realistic expectations in favour of gameplay like if gameplay was something standalone?

[prisma forge]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

you can’t have it both ways. Either forsake realism and accept that the kentro point is absurd, or embrace realism and call out nearly every playable in the game

[prisma forge]

I said it already

Fairness in matchups without being oppressive

[forest spindle]

The two are not seperate

[prisma forge]

You literally can’t have it both ways

Either you embrace realism or you don’t

[forest spindle]

Realism is the base how balancing could happen.
It make sense

[prisma forge]

Im leaving if I don’t get a straight answer. We’ve had enough fun for a while

[prisma forge]

So if I were to concede that, then nearly every released and planned playable is inherently unbalanced according to you?

[forest spindle]

The animals alone are unbalanced.
The players behind them balance the match out.

If you restrict animals to be only capable of doing certain stuff
You artificially restricting the gameplay

[prisma forge]

And you also would want realism to be internally consistent

Having herrera surviving 60 foot falls against rocks unharmed but breaking his ribcage for jumping one out of the many tiny somewhat blunt spike juveniles is internally inconsistent, and thus your own suggestion is unbalanced unless we rework herrera entirely

[forest spindle]

Passive damage is one such thing.

Getting hurt after leap on different animals is one such thing

Fighting again the Alligator after beging grabbed is one such thing

[prisma forge]

How is this even supposed to work

What do you mean the players balance out the matchup? The stats and mechanics are right there

[forest spindle]

Animals alone do nothing without players to control them

And each players own individual skill and knowledge of their animals decides the match

Not numbers in a excel

What you call balance is making something unreasonable and fair

Its a slippery slope that leads nowhere good

It leads to underpowered mechanics in favour of carnivores just like the Pounce mechanic

Others try to balance Kentro in combat to do more damage have a better cool down or do more bleed

What I promise is a passive mechanic that requires you and every other player to learn how to hunt Kentro

[prisma forge]

It’s ironic that you just made the slippery slope fallacy on me

[forest spindle]

I won't fall into fallacy fallacies

[prisma forge]

Never said your conclusion is wrong because of it

So not a fallacy fallacy

[vagrant crater]

I think "mechanics to incentivise knowing how to hunt XYZ" species is a good approach but the application you are suggesting isn't consistent to the games ethos currently.

Overall every species must be able to survive, and by gameplay every species must be able to eliminate other players through combat to some degree.

As described currently the suggested Kentro balancing would leave it with very few avenues of approach to take it down and a defensive set up that makes taking them on too greatly disincentivised

Everyone should understand and expect that something can just come out of nowhere and end them. As this is a survival game first and foremost and that's just how natural selection is

So Kentro needs to be subject to that as well

[forest spindle]

💖

More so as if you read other Kentro suggestions everyone talks about fighting Allo

Like an Allo would be a bleeding mess from my suggestion

Even if it kills the Kentro

[hazy abyss]

whats the topic

[hazy abyss]

i disagree

nerfing a single playable in a specific matchup sounds bad

[hazy abyss]

an herrera jumping on a kentro is not any less deadly than an rex or a deinon grabing a kentro

or even a carnivore trying to eat a kentro without removing the spikes

Being realistic is cool, but sometimes we should prioritize gameplay over realism

kentro´s reflection will balance it out fairly

well designed playables will lead to hunting an specific kind of animals and a niche regardless of niche buffs/debuffs

Nice username

[thorn pier]

Let me phrase it differently then

Literally any dino pouncing or latching onto the kentro's spikes should damage the latched or pouncing dino, not just Herrara.

[hazy abyss]

Herrara

[hazy abyss]

Kentro will get an reflect ability

[thorn pier]

Ah yes a spelling error, truly you have pwnt me. Got any kind of actual weight to your statement here or just being a child?

[hazy abyss]

??????

[thorn pier]

which one of those words confused you

[hazy abyss]

1. You admittedly said I was right since you changed your point.
2. I didn't point out the error to devalue your argument, i just found the pronunciation funny.
3. This is just a debate, there's no need to argue over it.
4. Immunity to latch or pounce is still kind of niche.
   The animal will receive a damage reflection ability which is literally your idea but in a more general way, which is what I wanted to point out.

[thorn pier]

When did I change my point, considering I ONLY SAID THAT????????????

[hazy abyss]

Thats what i was working with, i pointed it out and I was clearly referring to that specific situation.
You changed the topic of the debate; I wasn't talking about a possible idea of ​​yours, but about the message I replied to, so you did indeed change the topic of the debate (and since you're debating against me, the topic you're defending).
#balance-feedback-discussion message
Furthermore, the message you replied with, "let me rephrase that differently then" clearly didn't convey the meaning you intended.
#balance-feedback-discussion message

[thorn pier]

I don't care, just like I don't care that you professionally argued in high school and now it's your only skill.

[hazy abyss]

I wont debate with you anymore.

[ruby ledge]

read rule 2.

as you have mentioned you didnt read the rules, you may want to if you would like to remain here.

[dusky surge]

i mean, is it? it's not like this game hasn't done similar things before, like making cerato strong against fractures and CC so it's better in the matchup against pachy, or making omni instantly die when pouncing trike's face

like, to me, if your animal is defined as a "drop down from very high to try to kill something" and you land on a walking spike pit, you should die

[wheat path]

@silent wren unstuck exists...

[hazy abyss]

That also goes for a deinosuchus that grabs a kentro

Or an allo that pounce

Rex that bites

Or even anything tryna eat it that cant pass throught the spikes like a rex

[hazy abyss]

Cerato gaining fracture isnt a niche change

Just like bleed resistance or poison resistance isnt

[thin mantle]

At the time the change was made it was, pachy was the only animal in the game with any engagement with fractures, it was a specifically made change to mitigate pachy dominating cerato which was happening quite a lot

So that buff to cerato is a direct nerf to patchy when facing cerato

[hasty coyote]

if you need other examples, we have teno gaining a stability modifier during tail slam so that carno wouldnt stun it mid animation back when charge was an auto-hit and was able to knockdown teno. We have carno being given increased standing and walking bleed modifiers specifically for omni (as it was the only other carnivore in the game at the time, and the only dino that did serious bleed). we also got stuff like diablo and maia getting their cc nerfed from release because they were bullying things they shouldnt (both were knocking down and bullying stegos and diablos respectively). Carno and pachy also had a specific interaction when pachy rammed a charging carno (though that has been bugged for a while now).

[faint robin]

Finally trike can reliably stun rexes while standing on HT
Good old standing flip animation and stun returned
Rexes for once have to actually plan and ambush trike to kill it.
I can sleep well now.

[steep otter]

Yeah i think trike is in a much better spot rn, Just gotta fix some of he and rex hitbox issues

Kentro is the one that feels like the worse herb rn

[hasty coyote]

kentro having to wait a few seconds to power swing, not having reflect damage work most the time, getting face tanked by allo, and being as slow as diablo

yeah its not looking good

[hazy abyss]

but it was meant to be added to other dinosaurs, it wasnt an unique ability, but, an ailment thing, lets say that deino´s extra oxygen gives it some resistance to acro´s choke ability, its not really an niche stuff incase it works based on oxygen.

[hazy abyss]

i would remove the carno change to omni
an balance change made around an specific matchup that doesnt work only around that specific matchup isnt a niche change

[hazy abyss]

trike got buffed?

[junior jay]

#balance-feedback message
I seriously have ask this how do you die to a facetanking carno

@glacial vale proof

[glacial vale]

one sec getting the medal link

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/mC2dEc2NQIKjipGR6?invite=cr-MSxuajQsNjE0ODM1MjQ1

not only could i not outstam some dilos i know i was old but i was literly at the peak of carno and i run into one pack of dilos i can't out damge them and i can't see i might as well just turn my screen off and hope they don't see me

[steep gazelle]

I didn't understand why they did that to Dilo's Venom. Unlike Troodon, Dilo can easily kill just by using clones, without even needing to get close xd

They made something that was already OP even more. What a great idea 🔥🔥

[glacial vale]

yeah i think it's just kinda stuipid cause being a solo anything is gonna be near impossble now run into like 2-3 dilos as like a carno cera or hell like some herbs are gonna be a in a worst spot now it was in a great place but now it's geniunly close to rex pin for me

[steep gazelle]

Dilo needs a rework

[glacial vale]

yeah it's usless without the venom OP with the venom it's stupid

[steep gazelle]

His Venom and clones should be more interactive, but instead they just make him even less interactive

I keep thinking about what The Isle would be like if the servers could make balance changes like in Path of Titans

[glacial vale]

i don't want another DOT like bleed but honetly would rather that over this it's just i hope i can track where they are while blind and semi deaf for a alt bite and what's the point if i'm solo

[steep gazelle]

Without relying on some awful official balancing

[glacial vale]

yeah

i mean i was so fine with kentro not winning most fight instantly because yk it's spikes it bleeds but this is just bs

[steep gazelle]

I think Kentro should be much faster and deal less damage on the powerswing

700dmg i think is too much

[finite shadow]

cant have it be too fast cause then you would have this unattackable death ball chasing people around

[steep gazelle]

But, with his current speed, it's a fair damage

29km at Elder 🤡

[glacial vale]

i really try not to camp is bushes while solo but what could i have done i know i walked up to them i didn't instagate i thought they were carnos till they ran up and i saw they didn't have the legs or height and i ran till trot i tryed to bite not know the buff and this is what i was greeted with like 😐 i ran all the way across sp till almost outa stam and i had to run they had me surrounded so i started to run got bit in the tail venom then i tryed to fight back but what could i do there was 4-6 if i counted correctly

[steep gazelle]

Why is Rex faster than teno xd

I don't understand the devs thinking

[glacial vale]

isn't teno fast? i can never catch it

[steep gazelle]

My bad, i mean kentro

[glacial vale]

"the animal will not care about your feelings"

[steep gazelle]

But rex is faster than Elder teno too, i think

[glacial vale]

frail cause teno runs at like 40 right?

[steep gazelle]

12t running at 40km 🤡

[steep gazelle]

Frail or 100% teno prime

[finite shadow]

elder teno is around 43

[glacial vale]

yeah i belive they need to buff it's stam but make it slower like make it run at like 30ish and ambush will boost to 40 for 3-4 seconds becuase ambush

[steep gazelle]

I think teno 100% prime speed is 36km

[glacial vale]

dame allo at like 50% is better

[steep gazelle]

Rex should have a maximum speed of 35km/h in the Ambush

[glacial vale]

rex stam needs to be more it was a endurence runner irl it would walk there prey down but it should get a sprint and ambush so it's not just trike entertainment

i've seen prime trikes run down 95% rexes

it's stupid

[glacial vale]

speaking of stam being ah past 75 i think we should interduce a thing for better stam that would reward running around like fittness system if you move alot you get stam in your later years so that there isn't people just sitting for the last 12.5% of there life because stam is a reall big issue with old dinos i think we need a system where if you move alot consistantly you will get more stam so if your inactive on like rex not moving which is what alot of people do just sit at the edge of the beach or like map so if they do that to much they lose fittness and stam drains faster but if you move alot as a dino you will beable to outstam stuff more easy so you don't end up with what happend to me i just think this would be a good idea to not only help with getting people to move around the map and encourage getting into fight or allowing fights to come to you insted of what happends on rex trike steg and allo sit in one spot till like 6 tons then start moving

[finite shadow]

its a 100% old dino ofc 50% allo is going to be better

[glacial vale]

ngl i don't see where i said 100% dino or 50% allo i'm blind ngl can you tell me what was before that

[glacial vale]

oh mb i thought you werre talking about somthing else

i still think it's a bit wild that you spend time and your like that for like the last 12.5% of your life somone who spent maybe a hour on somthing shouldn't be outright better then the thing you spent i think 2-3 hours on not saying nerf allo buff teno

[finite shadow]

you dont start losing speed till the last 5% of your growth, its also to encourage people to entomb their animal and start the growing cycle again, your also still alot stronger then a 50% allo as a 100% teno

[glacial vale]

yeah i learned that today me and my friend got folded by mixing herbs on nerf but they were only scratching over packing but the only reason we lost me 400 kg him 800kg is becuase he took a hit from a trike and was injured heavily teno still kinda strong but i just don't like how the stam is after 50 so why i would like a fitness system

[finite shadow]

you also do 0 damage as an allo till you hit around 600kg lol

[glacial vale]

yeah we were trying to bleed him but filthy mix packers like 2 trikes and 3 tenos is rediculous so he died in a bush and teno was faster then me so

[finite shadow]

yea you guys wouldnt have been killing much at that size

[glacial vale]

one of the things i don't like about having to entomb is on apexes if you ever do live long enough when your in that last 5% not only do you have no stam you have no movement i just hate how your literly encouraged to sit in a bush for like a hour or two i've seen a prime rex who was going to entomb get tracked down by a trike that was aparently teaming with a dieno

[jovial apex]

ive been saying this. dilo poison should drain stam slowly and dim your screen,not blind you and completely put your dino in a sharingan genjutsu. im dead serious, if thats the case, jus add modkit now,so players can add better dinos with better counters to pins,pounce and dilo sharingan

[faint robin]

Rex can't be ran down by a trike unless it somehow wastes like more than half of its stam before trike started chasing

[junior jay]

Thats for giga tho

And this aint irl

[indigo rain]

Prime rex runs 40.44 something. Normal teno runs 40. Senior runs 31. Prime runs 44. So after 87% im usually just going into a bush and waiting because at full hunger and water you wont starve before you entomb

[steep otter]

frail teno , dibble and kentro are just free meal

[hazy abyss]

It wasnt an endurance hunter tho

Rex just needs it movement gutted

[hazy abyss]

So he runs at around 33.7 km/h without it

[forest spindle]

How heavy an Austro chick would be?

[hazy abyss]

3 rexes and half

[bleak gull]

please unf*ck how op deino is. The fact that you cant retaliate or struggle once one grabs you is insanely dumb.

[viscid mica]

@bleak gull deinos can’t grab anything of comparable size it’s 50% on land and 75% in water meaning the subject choose to swim. Struggle might be nice but it doesn’t seem useful when you consider that as playable within deino grab size range to just drink from safer waters or just not swim in common deino areas

@glacial vale are you asking for the void domain expansion to be nerfed or the actual damaged?

[bleak gull]

That's really interesting, because a non-adult deino grabbed my 76% grown prime allo and dragged it into the water. And I was also drinking using a log as a shield but it was still able to grab me through it and it was a little smaller than me.

[viscid mica]

Allo at that size is at most 2.7tons so it’d only have to be just over 5 tons to grab you

[bleak gull]

Still doesn't make my point moot.
There should be risk for a deino to grab prey. Right now it's just a free meal button with zero risk to the deino, which is highly unrealistic. Even IRL with modern crocodiles prey will struggle and injure a larger crocodile or even break free.

I was wrong, the deino was a few percentage points larger than me. But still goofy imo.

⚔️ Moonflower (Allosaurus) at growth 74% died to a growth 79% Deinosuchus.

[viscid mica]

This game isn’t a full realism game

Deinos balancing is by its weight limits and the fact that compared to all other apex’s it’s pretty weak. Deino is heavily restricted to water severely limiting where it can hunt, it can’t stay underwater forever and there are a ton of ponds that deinos of any considerable size can’t fit in. Deinos balancing comes from natural restrictions not a niche mechanic that can easily get hacked or bypassed with macros.

But regardless based on your description you drank from west rail pond I presume?

[viscid mica]

That’s a 6 hour grow difference btw

[bleak gull]

yeppp.

[bleak gull]

theres a six hour grow difference between 74% and 79%?

[viscid mica]

Ya generally speaking that’s a hotspot for deinos and there’s a dozen ways to bypass that log

[viscid mica]

Between a allo and a deino? Yup

[bleak gull]

Im never drinking from the pond again 😂 I know there is another one nearby but the group I was with didnt want to go that far

[viscid mica]

Allo is a just over 2 hour regular adult deino is anywhere between 7.5 to 9 depending on diets

[viscid mica]

The easiest counter to deinos is learning hotspots and avoiding drinking or walking near the water there I could make a map and draw to show you where safe water is and were deinos are very common

[bleak gull]

its just frustrating to have to constantly regrow due to getting clamped and just having to sit there and watch yourself die without being able to do anything about it. My friends and I just don't bother visiting most areas of the map now bc of how infested it can get with deinos.

[bleak gull]

I wouldn't mind, but if its too much work it's alright c:

[viscid mica]

Hol up I’ll make you a map that should make life easier

[bleak gull]

as a general rule my friends and I avoid certain places but it makes things rough when youre in a pinch

[viscid mica]

White is safe, orange is risky/potential danger and red is basically lethal

99.9% of the time if not 100 those areas circled in white are safe to drink from

orange are a dice role, there might be some safe spots in them but generally practice caution

Red there is a 90% chance of a deino being there

Mind you a lot of the orange I still drink from relatively safely but I have died at those orange areas before so I can’t confidently say 100% safety

[viscid mica]

So long as you give the water a 2 deino distance your pretty safe in most areas that they frequent

[cobalt dagger]

@junior jay

I like your suggestion for carnivores having more food drain the bigger they are.

However, it's the herbivore removal of grazing that makes me not wanna give it a check.

[bleak gull]

appreciate you dude c: Ill keep this in mind

[viscid mica]

Np gl out there! I’ve just been playing for ages so learning the map and how to avoid deinos is first nature I can understand when your newish how hard it can be it took me hundreds of hours to fully learn the map and even than I sometimes get lost

[junior jay]

I think devs were already planning that
Also i added it for balance since you know herbis can mix too but i get where your coming from🫠

[cobalt dagger]

That makes sense.

[viscid mica]

@cobalt dagger I’d recommend adding “in defensive stance” as being in standard stance shouldn’t really punish others beyond specific moves (coughs at Rex crush)

[cobalt dagger]

I agree but I also know putting in too many ideas at once can make it so people don;'t check something because they don't like 1 of the ideas.

But I loved your specific idea for that

[viscid mica]

No no I’m not trying to change the core of your idea just the specifics so devs are more likely to actually acknowledge it

Defensive stance is supposed to be its primary reflective portion anyways

[random stump]

#balance-feedback message

so it would at night look like this (volumetric clouds, lumen off, its raining), but during the day wouldnt have much of an effect because its... day. you dont need nightvision during the day time

[viscid mica]

@random stump I like the idea BUT you aren’t accounting for the use of shaders and gamma

Which directly ignores the need for night vision

[random stump]

ah

yeah forgot about that it would basically just remove dilos venom then

which is bad

[viscid mica]

Yeah I think the fog needs to be a little less devastating vision wise but should still be decently strong

[random stump]

i really would like dilo to be more noctournally focused ngl, currently it just kinda isnt

"it has the best night vision" there are like 30 minutes during an 8 hour play session that it'll be dark enough for that to matter

because it needs to be thundering at midnight

during a new moon

[viscid mica]

No no it absolutely is dilos venom is significantly harder to apply during day now and doesn’t last very long

But at nights it’s far easier and lasts far longer

[random stump]

oh alright

good then

[viscid mica]

For example before this ht we could easily t3 cera with a group of subs during the day

Recently on ht we had 4 of us and we couldn’t get it past t1 it was taking 3-4 bites just to get it to t1

But at night similar sized dilos we easily got a kentro of equal size to t3 with far less bites and even less subs

[random stump]

thats a good level then yeah, just needs the fog to be a little less overburderning

should still be incredibly rewarding to get someone to t3 but not just instant death sentence for that person

[viscid mica]

We even t3d a sub trike but it took like I wanna say 15-17 bites to get it there it was a lot of effort and spam clicks after a failed alt attack

[viscid mica]

Tbf at nights it’s pretty damming due to the time it lasts especially with large numbers

Pachys advantage is it can fracture a dilo easily if they try

While omnis can easily juke and climb and troodons can send dilos to the shadow realm easily

Nothing specifically can’t beat dilos and they’re venom isn’t a guaranteed win as it can take some time to apply and the bigger the target the harder to get them to t3

Plus dilos mobility is akin to a allos if not abit worse

Especially considering dilo is far squishier

[random stump]

ig dilos fine then

[viscid mica]

Honestly jump on HT and give dilo a try before you make any conclusive opinions

[random stump]

when is nighttime from? as a question, is it 18:30 to 4:30?

[twilit seal]

Id argue its much worse due to not having a slide after years

[viscid mica]

It’s got 1

Not a crazy good one but it does have a slide

[twilit seal]

Is there a new one on ht? Or are you talking about the live one

Cuz live one is barely a slide if you ask me

The only way to be slightly more agile is crouch turning

Which is like, a tiny diff for extra effort

[viscid mica]

Same as live I believe

[twilit seal]

Then its barely a slide imo, it doesnt even turn 90 degrees, allo can do a 180

[viscid mica]

Fair enough

[glacial vale]

i mean google might be wrong but
Copilot Search Branding

Like

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T. rex as an Endurance Walker
Recent paleontological research suggests that T. rex was not primarily a sprinter but an efficient, endurance-oriented walker. While it could run — estimates place its top speed around 20 km/h (about 12 mph) ScienceBlog.com+1 — its long legs and body proportions were adapted to minimize energy expenditure at walking speeds, not to achieve the fastest possible run EurekAlert!+1.

Why it was efficient
Scientists analyzed limb proportions, body mass, and gaits across over 70 theropod species, including T. rex. For smaller to medium-sized dinosaurs, longer legs evolved for speed, but in giant theropods over 1,000 kg, longer legs instead correlated with low-energy walking EurekAlert!+1. This efficiency was likely crucial because T. rex spent most of its time roaming and foraging, not chasing prey or fleeing predators EurekAlert!+1.

Endurance predator
Because of its efficient locomotion, T. rex could prowl over long distances in search of food, making it a “marathon predator” rather than a “sprinter” ScienceDaily. This endurance strategy, combined with its massive size and powerful bite, would have made it a formidable hunter — capable of stalking prey over extended periods and covering large territories ScienceBlog.com+1.

[glacial vale]

i mean i feel like it's pretty limited by it's stam already

[stark ether]

I do find it odd that they went and completely reworked ptera into being a vaguely effective juvie killer with an entirely new set of animations and abilities while completely gutting its aerial combat, rather than just… giving terrestrial payables the ability to attack upwards?

[random stump]

which they'll probably end up having to add to deal with quetz

[hasty coyote]

It’s changing one playable or change ALL playables. The easier route is quite clear tbh.

[hasty coyote]

Or they just give quetz the same treatment.

[random stump]

):

[random stump]

also tbf its change one playable a ton or add a singular ability to all playables

[glacial vale]

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/mCtauPD2RrxSsUZJ0?invite=cr-MSwyMXQsNjE0ODM1MjQ1

[hasty coyote]

Add like 40 new attacks and balance them, or just make new alt attacks, add some mechanics, and adjust some numbers on a single playable.

[hasty coyote]

I agree we need something for the mixpackers, but a poor anti-mixpack system will just be infinitely worse than what we have now. Because those same mixpackers will just abuse the system to kill people. Even the current mixpack scent gets people killed by revealing them. I have smelt mixpack scent with my group, and immediately found some poor dude hiding in a bush because of it on multiple occasions. And that’s without intentionally trying to abuse it.

[glacial vale]

yeah i don't like that mega pack symbol it's uselss and can be used like that and that's why i suggest a stress meters for offical cause look at that i mean idk if t-rex was hacking or somtin cause why was a rex outstaming a 55% allo and why where there"random" pachys

[hasty coyote]

If he was sprinting the whole time it was just hacking.

Also stress would be even worse than the mixpack symbol. Because not only does the mixpack know you’re around, they also are actively debuffing you. Not to mention if they send some hounds to sit by you and get you debuffed, then send in the big ones to kill you easily. and thy can get around that system by spreading out and then coming together to jump you the moment a fight starts. And it also makes herbivores incentivized to attack each other on sight or get debuffed.

[glacial vale]

well then make rules which is what dani won't do

there clear answer is being blocked cause "i no wanna"

[random stump]

if you're just gonna make rules either way you may as well not put in the effort to make a system

[glacial vale]

well they won't make a system so rules just like 3 rules 1 no hacking 2 no overpacking 3 no mixpackling boom just have people submit tickets like bug reports then they could get there dino back and hackers/mixpackers get a ban/warning

[random stump]

why put in an abusable system that'll require more complex rules when i can just ban the people who that system would punish

[glacial vale]

i agree if i understand you from my point of view

[hasty coyote]

Also looking at the clip, the issue was that the Rex was regenerating stam while walking, you got too low to regen stam and kept trying to sit momentarily (which does not regen stam like at all). But yeah those pachies def got you killed in the end.

[glacial vale]

there was no way i could play that better that rex was just beefing up i think cause he was still small and there is no way he can run for that long

[random stump]

when at 60% stamina, you can regenerate stamina while trotting. you can regenerate at lower levels with a certain mutation

if the rex had 60% stamina, and you had 55%, he could just walk after you while his regens and yours doesnt, sprint till his is at 60% again, and if you sprint you dont get yours back, he'll eventually catch you

[hasty coyote]

Nah I don’t want to, I just think the alternative often has issues (which is why it hasn’t been done yet) like rules have the issue of enforcement. You would need 24/7 surveillance of over 20 servers for that, they already struggle with hackers.

[random stump]

try to never ever in a million years let your stamina be under the trot regen threshhold unless you're an omni or smthn and can hop up on a rock

or you're way quicker then anything nearby

[hasty coyote]

It looked about right to me at least. Rex can just regen from 0 stam while trotting iirc unlike everything else for some reason

[glacial vale]

i thought trot regen was 55% no?

[random stump]

60%

55% with multichambered lungs

[glacial vale]

well i thank you for telling me i've been told otherwise before that might be why i died

[glacial vale]

that's utterly stuipid

[random stump]

50% after 1 entomb, 45 after 2, 40 after 3, and i think 35 after 4

assuming you got multichambered ^

[hasty coyote]

Nah they don’t scale past the 3rd

[random stump]

k so yeah max is 40%

and then you get it back walking for 20% up and standing still for 0% up with max entombed multichambered

[glacial vale]

the one reason i thought i was safe was becuase rexes have stam issues but it can regen from 0%? i have a few hundred hours on rex i still think that's stupid

[random stump]

the base is 60%, 40%, 20%, and below 20% you have to sit down to get it back

[hasty coyote]

There’s a lot stupid about the balance atm

[random stump]

pinslop, random carnivore favoritism like that thing with rex

[glacial vale]

i see why rex is so hated now

[random stump]

did you know there are no damage mutations for herbivores?

meanwhile a carnivore can have, on its first run, 30% increased damage on a low health, bleeding target while hungry.

[glacial vale]

there really don't need to be i run into more agressive herbs than carnis as of recent

[hasty coyote]

I think at least, I may be wrong. It also may only be while walking, because I know they have an insane walk regen (0.4 per second compared to most things 0.2)

[random stump]

there kinda does

[glacial vale]

holy this balance team is cooked

[glacial vale]

i mean they should have speed and defence muts

[random stump]

they have defense, speed was removed for herbi and carni because it was horribly broken

[hasty coyote]

Iirc it’s because Rex has bad relative stam, so it can out walk things to escape or to try and just walk em down, but it’s def a bit excessive

[random stump]

"rex has bad relative stamina, a weakness, so we removed it!" why?

[glacial vale]

i mean 40% maybe but 0 is mental

[slim dragon]

They should remove all combat mutations instead

[random stump]

let it have bad stamina

[hasty coyote]

[random stump]

i mean yeah i did some math a bit ago and cerato hits like

[glacial vale]

they stam drain is shi but 0 % regen is mental

[random stump]

rex damage with just hemomania & metabolic initiation

[random stump]

should be the same as everything else, where you have threshholds

[random stump]

2 entombs, ADULT cerato, not even prime elder peak, does rex damage with a fully charged chargebite

cant remember if it required a headshot or not

[glacial vale]

i mean i wish they would make is a endurence walker like it was in real life make it have stam but cap it's run at like 30 35 ambush MAYBE 40

[hasty coyote]

Adult Rex ambush is 36kph iirc, prime is 40kph

[glacial vale]

yeah again nerf it's run

and that god awful 0 %

[random stump]

rex gets to be an endurance predator OR an ambush predator

it should not get to walk down the thing it just sprinted after because it got that thing sub 60% stamina

[glacial vale]

please just make it endurance

[random stump]

while wasting its entire stamina bar doing so

you fail an ambush you dont get to eat OR your ambushes dont matter walk em down but understand they're going to beat you senseless

[glacial vale]

so many go nerf rexes speed like that would solve the issue

[random stump]

walking something down and 1 shotting it with crush wouldnt be ok

would probably have to rework alot of rexes kit, or at least crush would need to be removed and replaced

[glacial vale]

if you nerf it's speed down to like 25 30 like i've seen suggested it's stam would then just suck he needs a rework

[glacial vale]

somthing i would like is a mini game of sort depending on size stacked in the rexes favor normaly but not just if you don't notice it in time your dead(like what happend in the clip) but like somthing that make you predict the other move ments like they can escape the pen 2-3 ways for small 2 for larger 3 maybe 4 if like trike steg or dieno if you predict they stay in pen if you lose you get 2 chances to mis then they escape with each time you predict(as the rex) damge will start stacking

[random stump]

#balance-feedback message

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-kaperoo-evrima-allosaurus-magyarosaurus-gif-25123484

toxic flesh does not make an animal less likely to be attacked

only means people will do it PURELY for funny instead of pretending it was for food

[hasty coyote]

if the toxin is applied when attacking and not just eating, it would. it would effectively be a different version of thorns damage

though I do agree it does not fit dryo, I do think it could work well for magy depending on how it is implemented

[random stump]

then it would be impossible to ever attack said animal, unless you make the toxin weak enough to not matter

[slim dragon]

Or attack it as an animal adapted to kill it
Ex : cera killing magy

[hasty coyote]

depends on how the toxin works. if its just pure damage for biting them at all, then yeah thats prob not gonna work well. If its like inverse cera bile, where biting it causes you to puke, thats both a stun on the attacker AND a pretty big reason to not deal with them. If it hinders your sight like dilo and troodon venom, then it can be used to escape easier. They essentially would just need to give it some form of hindering the attacker rather than flat out killing them

[random stump]

you'd probably want it to do the puke effects without the cooldown/disabling, so that continuing to mess around with it will have you continue to puke

[hasty coyote]

depending on the dino that could work, but at the same time you also don't want it to be too powerful to the point that you can't fight it at all due to stunning yourself on every hit (and especially since vomit stun can be chained into an actual stun).

[random stump]

for a dryo it'd be fine

but dryo shouldnt be toxic anyways

[viscid mica]

@harsh lark the isle has never once advertised itself as a rogue lite it’s a hardcore survival game future benefits have been discussed for accomplishments on Dino’s such as skins, colours and the sort but they are not planned too even be on the table for discussion till far later

For now the isle is a hardcore mass multiplayer survival game

[forest herald]

Balance this or whatever u call

[indigo rain]

Looks like rex has the same bug trike did. If trike thrashed, the hitbox included all of its legs. So if rex crushes and its leg is touching you...

[harsh lark]

If I put guns in my game and have players shoot them from a first person view, it’s an fps game. It doesn’t matter what you choose to label your game, it’s the actual design itself that dictates what your game is.

The lack of saving mechanics combined with the intended gameplay loop being repetitive runs is a clear attempt at a rogue-like type gameplay loop. So the game should be judged through those lens. You can’t point at the fine print and act like a vague description of “hardcore survival” means the game is excused from comparisons to similar games.

[viscid mica]

DayZ, rust, ark, are all those rogue likes? No because it’s a actual genre

It does not play like a rogue like it plays like every other hardcore survival time=progression=power

[harsh lark]

When I play ark there is never a point in the endgame where I deliberately reset myself to being a bob on the beach. On the other hand when I play Risk of Rain 2, the whole goal is to reach an endpoint that finishes a run, and then start a new run afterwards. A game can take elements from multiple different genres. It’s not a “one or the other” type of deal.

[viscid mica]

Fair enough so than we can agree not to make statements based on one or the other concepts

[viscid mica]

@velvet mango yes? Your supposed to age faster with good diets unless your a prime at which point the diets 0 out and everyone of the same age category regardless of diets ages the same speed as everyone other Dino of their race. Obviously a Rex will seem slower than a omni as it is much so

[kindred barn]

@hot salmon:tbh allos bite speed should be redused to like carno level and then the bite force shall increas to 200.

[faint robin]

@steep otter Do u know was running flip stun multiplier buffed on trike on ht?

[steep otter]

No clue, have not be able to test that myself

Only the standing one

I really hope it was cuz the stun multiplier on it was trash

[faint robin]

But it got standing flip back and it stuns its own weight? Or even more?

I saw it got animation back

[steep otter]

I tested a peak prime trike vs a peak rex

The rex was stunned

Maybe its like 1.10x

[faint robin]

Good to hear, now i wonder what the stun multiplier is for standing flip and was running flip stun multiplier buffed

[steep otter]

Same, i really hope the running one was buffed

Trike that cant stun a rex is a dead one

[faint robin]

While rex can stun 30% more weight than itself, yep

[faint robin]

U sure tho it was peak prime rex?

[steep otter]

Yeah, i tested with a friend that grow a rex to test that with me

[faint robin]

Good good

[steep otter]

But the server got wiped later so we could not test much

[slim dragon]

@vast swallow Fracture isn't chance-based in evrima

[vast swallow]

Then maybe the fracture-damage, if that's what it's called?

[slim dragon]

Yes
But fracture is basically pachy's only way of defense, and it depends heavily on what species you're playing as

Bigger animals have more fracture health so pachy will require many hits to fracture them

[vast swallow]

I am aware pachy's way of defence is breaking bones, but I've seen a lot of issues with the fact since if you break your bones you're basically dead and pachy's speed is faster than most of the dinos in-game. Just think it needs a bit of a nerf somehow.

Just maybe the amount of fracture damage inflicted from one bonk should be lower and needs more to cause a broken bone

[slim dragon]

Pachy isn't that fast tho
It also depends on which fracture you get
Sure leg fracture is basically a death sentence for most species, but you can run away just fine with a head fracture

[vast swallow]

Pachy is nearly as fast as omni during their peak speed I'm pretty sure

[viscid mica]

Absolutely not pachys are 43km regular adult peaking at 45.something omnis are 47 peaking at 51…

Omnis can easily shake a pachy of equal grow rate stamina and speed

[slim dragon]

Prime pachy is close to adult omni's speed yeah
But that's a problem with the fact being elder makes you faster, not with pachy

[viscid mica]

Even than a sub+ can still outrun a peak prime pachy

Pachys are especially good at fighting omnis and dilo due to size but other than that they struggle with anything bigger carnos are like the last thing they can threaten and even then you have to be a prime to even stand a chance against a adult+

And even than dilos only need like 2 hits at night to t3 them and omnis are 100000x more agile

[viscid mica]

I know pachy can feel rough to fight as a omni but it is a hard counter to omnis especially if it’s a 1v1

It’s like a dilo v carno or dibble v Rex

[lofty lake]

they knock over similiar sized dinos and deal too much damage

[lofty lake]

that agility does't matter when pachys holding right click have great turning speed, i think the turning speed should be nerfed to make it a fair fight against other carnis

because where it stands right now, similiar level of skillset 1v1 a pachy always win just by the fact it has to do one clean headbut

and it's fracturing something (most of the time it will be legs) and it's a gg

pachys won't even give a chance for a dilo to attack because dilo have slow turning speed, a bad matchup

a raptor takes one clean hit and it's a gg

[thin mantle]

That’s how it’s supposed to be

Pachy is slower than most carnivores in the game, it is an animal who’s survival fully relies on its ability to repel or kill most of the carnivore roster save for Allo and Rex, and to some extent cerato

Pachy needs a lower skill floor for surviving these encounters than something like carno Omni or dilo do for encountering pachy

[stark ether]

Pachy is slower than Omni, it should beat Omni.

It’s an optional fight.

Most Omnis don’t even go for bites anymore, they don’t try to bait out alt attacks, they just try to pounce and if that fails they give up.

[thin mantle]

Omni is also an animal incapable of starving so there’s not even an immediate need to fight a pachy besides the entertainment derived from the experience really

[hasty coyote]

they did that for a time, and pachy was useless at that time because it couldn't defend itself well enough.

from what you have said, it seems the larger issue is with fractures, than with pachy. Because rex has the same issues with how the fractures work.

[thin mantle]

Fractures suffer a lot from not having any progression

[hasty coyote]

and from some being incredibly strong debuffs while others have almost no immediate effect

[lofty lake]

you have a guarantee fracture once you hit someone

right click and alt atk and it's a fracture

[hasty coyote]

depending on their size

[lofty lake]

the right click atk does knock downs which is incredibly annoying, it makes you susceptible to other pachys

followed by an alt atk and its gg

[hasty coyote]

tbf, pachies arent especially designed to be fun to fight, quite the opposite tbh

omnis can do the same thing to pachies though, less than 1/4th of your stam in a single damage pounce kills a pachy

[lofty lake]

i quite like killing pachys because i know it's the "harder" dino to battle and everytime im reminded that this dino is that overpowered beginner character you get early on in games

[stark ether]

Pachy’s entire gimmick is “mess with me and get fractured”.

Vs faster opponents, it should reliably fracture them if they choose to fight it.

Vs slower opponents, pachy should risk not fracturing them and taking a big hit like what happens currently.

[hasty coyote]

how is it overpowered? because it can consistently defend itself from smaller and faster predators?

even then consistently is an overstatement, it has some serious vulnerabilities. 1-2 omni pounces kills it if there isnt terrain 5 feet away, dilos only need 1 trade to hallucination spam it to death. Carno kinda mauls it atm unless it gets a leg fracture, and anything bigger takes 2 hits to fracture while not being stunned, so they get free counterattacks and win

[lofty lake]

saying that it's a faster than a raptor is a bit of a stretch, raptor are faster species by few kilometers, but you take a prime and compare it to say an non prime it would be faster, so it's not completely correct

[lofty lake]

2 pounces do not kill a pachy wym? also same thing for a pachy, it needs 1 atk on it and pachys can jump while dilo can't, they have means to escape a dilo if it gets envenomated, a dilo doesn't

[hasty coyote]

prime pachy is still slower than even adult omni, and a "few kilometers" is a surprising amount in this game. That means omni is the one who can decide if they want to not even start the engagement. Not to mention the fact that omni is nearly half the size of a pachy.

But also, primes being faster and such is a prime issue across the board, not specifically with pachy. Omni has the exact same issue against dilo.

[lofty lake]

well i just think right click + alt atk combo is a bit too overpowered and the fracture chance must be lowered or fracture damage reduced

[hasty coyote]

Have you been using bleed or damage pounce? because damage pounce SHREDS things even if they try bucking. The pachy only needs one hit, but thats IF it gets that hit. omnis have superior agility and speed, enough to get around a pachy if they play well and bait out an attack for a free pounce. And if the omni can't bait out an attack, they can just choose to back away, pachy can't track.

Firstly, dilos EASILY escape pachies, they have far superior speed, pachies can't track, and the dilo can blind the pachy with venom. Also rocks arent everywhere, so unless you want pachies to specifically live where they can run to a rock within a few seconds while a dilo constantly harasses them, they need to hold the advantage in that fight.

[hasty coyote]

If you lower pachy's fracture damage to the point that even an omni can take multiple hits, then pachy will just die on sight to carnos and literally get face tanked to death by dilos.

because the fracture isnt overall to the target, its to specific areas. Which means if the sections take 2 hits to break, the pachy can land 1 headshot, 1 body shot, and 1 leg shot and get 0 fractures.

[lofty lake]

considering they can do knock downs, they have high chance of getting that fracture

[hasty coyote]

only against smaller targets, it can't knockdown carnos

technically prime pachies can knockdown adult carnos, but that just means pachy dies to carno on sight unless the carno is much younger

[lofty lake]

but a solo shouldnt be fighting a carno tho?

makes sense to me it should die to a carno if it can't jump somewhere

[hasty coyote]

it has no choice, its much slower and not very agile. Its main way to survive is to fracture and run

but if it can't fracture, it just dies

[lofty lake]

if a pachy can survive dilo, raptors AND carnos, what is killing it?

surely it shouldn't take allos and rexes, those are reserved for mid class herbis

[hasty coyote]

those 3 can, they just need to play better. Like how everything else in this game is balanced. Everything has to have a way to consistently survive a matchup, even if its just avoiding said matchup. That doesnt mean it needs to survive 100% of the time, but it needs to have a consist ant method to survive.

If the only way to survive is to camp rocks, then thats not a consistent method because rocks are not that common, especially in the many places pachies have migrations.

Heres how you deal with pachies:
as something like dilo or omni, you ambush the pachy and/or bait its attacks. If you can't do that, then you just leave it. You don't HAVE to fight the pachy. As carno, you just try to rush it down and avoid letting it get a leg fracture. As anything bigger, you just trade hits and win, because pachy can't cc you so its forced to trade hits (and the math is NOT in pachy's favor).

[lofty lake]

honestly i solved this by just playing troodons, that hitbox barely reach me anywhere

[hasty coyote]

that also works well, pachies have a hard time dealing with them due to how small troodons are and how long their long end lag after a miss lol.

[viscid mica]

They really don’t 💀 at least not if you ride them closely

Similar skill up till very skilled player anyone in that higher skill range omnis always win

Like if we did it based on ranked like bronze to diamond gold is when omnis start to win more consistently in the ones and anything above that it just becomes more and more common that omnis win

Pachys are what I like to call a “noob stomper” playable, every fighting games got one that one playable that’s not insanely good or anything but noobs would swear it’s the strongest character in the game as it’s got a very niche thing that makes it hard to fight if you don’t know the counter

[dusky surge]

i wouldn't call it simply a noob stomper, pachy falls into an archetype that i like to call a "bully playable"

it lives off the idea of "picking on someone smaller than you and running the moment someone actually bigger rocks up", it basically just relies on touting whatever advantage it has, be it its size, its group numbers, and yes, even skill, that sometimes means if you're newer to the game, it'll absolutely bully you too

it also helps pachy has incredible viability throughout its entire growth (as well as an easy time growing in general), an incredibly easy to understand playstyle, a very nice spread of stats with strong stamina, bleed res, headshot resist, etc making it accessible to anyone who just feels like it

[viscid mica]

I’d still call it a noob stomper cuz individually only players not particularly good at what they are playing die to them

Like ya not much you can do again 5 of em but there not much you can do against 5 of anything really

Pachy is one of my top 3 learner Dino’s and is #2 on ease of learning

[worthy grail]

ceras, easy

[deft dome]

This is the second time on two official servers that I've been placed Prime Elder, waited the 60 seconds to leave, and when I return, my dino has reverted to Sub-Adult.

[devout spade]

i hope they will finally fix rex and trike issue, community agrees that rex is a bit broken

to be fair ofc u can beat rex but its harder for trike, rex has more chance to win, so if there is 2 people with same pvp skill rex will win

[bitter iris]

#balance-feedback message I agree with the Rex nerf but given trike bone break isn’t right. That may be why there are X’s and obviously the dogmatic rex mains.

[faint robin]

Its more of a sarcasm i think
Just the fact that rex disables trike in 2-3 crushes is crazy

Tho on HT trike can at least reliably stun rex

[turbid vigil]

It seems to me that this is not a Triceraps balance problem, but a Tyrannosaurus...

[vale brook]

its a teeny bit of both

well, teeny bit of trike, less so teeny rex

[junior jay]

Its 4 crushes without glass bones

[junior jay]

#balance-feedback message
@supple spoke
You are over exandurating your suggestion by a lot
Both herra and troodon already have a bigger food time then 10 minutes
their only strugle is with speed

#balance-feedback message
@zealous warren
So uh... What exacly are you suggesting here

[supple spoke]

to be precise its hunger going down under 20% in 5 minutes, not a big difference, the balance problem remain.

[junior jay]

Juvis hunger starts at 20-30 %

When you spawn in

With every playable

#balance-feedback message
First of all it takes 1-2h to get fast with rex juvi before that it isnt viable and second trike and steg both gain over 2 tons of Weight before rex even gets fast

@random stump

[supple spoke]

the problem isn't when it starts to drop hunger, the problem is the speed of it, rex and allo get perfect hunger drop on spawn comparative to troodon and herrera, this way starting for rex or allo gives u time to see shelter and food, on the troodon and herrera matters is not to die of starving on the start

[junior jay]

I was just saying your info on the hunger times are wrong im not against the suggestion

[zealous warren]

@junior jay I wanted to say that there is no food for crocodiles in the lakes, there are many crossing places for land animals, and next to the crossings it is also empty (and does not appear in places where there are bridges), no one goes to drink water, neither deer, nor wild boars, nor other players

[junior jay]

Gotcha

[viscid mica]

@chilly folio It has it in base the base clones just get stuck on everything

Plus dilos venom isn’t free 99 unless your something it could kill easily regardless of venom it takes a solid amount of hits for anything of any real weight and everything else has options for the most part

[torn egret]

I think the damage the clones deal is still about the same.
The venom on the HT is also bugged as far as I’m aware. Right now it shares the same effect as Troodon which I don’t believe was intended

[chilly folio]

no clue what that first part is referring too but yea the clone pathing could def use some improvements, imo tho if they keep the HT vision(unless its bugged) they need to remove clone dmg cause theres no counterplay for anything inbetween the 1-2 ton range once theyre purple stage. also i can argue against your point of dilos venom not being free because it is fully possible to run face first into a cerato, trade two bites with it, run out and proceed to kill it by spamming rmb at a distance at nighttime.

same situation can be said for many other matchups aswell

even if the vision is bugged, i do think it would be more interesting to see it act as more of a hinderence rather than a free ranged attack

cause the extremely clouded vision + loud clones will actually make it hard to distinguish from the actual dilo

[torn egret]

It is bugged for dilo. It’s not supposed to have the same effect as troo venom on the Ht.
The clones getting more behaviors would be dope. I dislike how they just run straight at you.

[viscid mica]

The effect isn’t intended and the damage is identical the clones pathing has just been fixed

[viscid mica]

The vision is very strong I’ll agree it could use a tweak

[viscid mica]

It takes far more hits than that to t3 a cera

You can’t face tank a cera that has bile thou if equal grow % maybe at night but even than you’ll be 1-2 hits from death IF you manage to get away in time and they don’t use any other tricks like chargebiting or alt bites

[chilly folio]

at night a 700kg dilo can put a 1300kg cerato or carno to stage 3 in 2 head hits ive done it countless times

[viscid mica]

Head shots sure and at night when it’s venom is at its strongest

The night hunter being strong at night

[chilly folio]

its beyond strong 😭 its like giving the dinosaur a gun and saying hey u just have to punch this fat dude once or twice then run away and u can shoot him

[torn egret]

Glad they got the clones fixed.
It’s been overdue for a while

[viscid mica]

Considering a cera can do 70% of a fg dilos health with 1 full charge bite and a carno can stun lock and get about 400 damage for 1 knock down head butt I don’t think it’s all that mighty

[viscid mica]

Tell me about it

[viscid mica]

Correction 90%

[daring smelt]

<@&579345586965446657> help with unstuck?

[stark knoll]

Try using /unstuck, this is not the way or place to request admin help

[daring smelt]

didnt ask for ur opinion.

[stark knoll]

I'm trying to help you, and I'm telling you that you can't use #balance-feedback for that

[junior jay]

isle mentality

[dusky surge]

you'll have to forgive them, they went through the unbearable atrocity of getting the question they asked answered lmao

[fallow blaze]

Hello guys.
How is kentro coming along after patch?
Can he now better survive battles? Can't play HT.
What i have seen on Youtube is, that his spikes-damage has not change. Still a problem.
Does it feel like that way?

[viscid mica]

@vital pond tails hits don’t count it’s desync that makes it look like they hit your tail and not your body when on their side they hit your body

[hasty coyote]

From the kentros I have fought, their thorns damage is much more consistent, I’m just unsure of how strong the thorns actually is. I haven’t seen the Diablo or allo fights yet, but they likely are still not great.

[steep otter]

Allo can still just spam bite him and win

[hallow hinge]

guys i have a question who believe devs are listening feedbacks ?

[tropic falcon]

They read through it

[hallow hinge]

then why for 6 months allo never changed about bite speed or other things ?

or why never fixed omni bug for 3 months?

or never changed teno ?

those all thing got +100 likes

[steep gazelle]

Dilo Clones now attack even underwater 🤡

[viscid mica]

That was this update goober not when that comment was made

[vale brook]

just because a portion of the community generally agree with something doesnt mean its going to come, the ideas generally have to align with the overall vision for the game and compliment/enhance that

with that said, these things also take time and small changes such as those likely arent high priorities with everything going on if/when the devs decide to adjust them. for instance, allo bite speed would likely require a readjustment of Allos bite animation because thats (generally) what seems to determine bite speed

the community had their chance to be more involved, there was a crowdfunder that failed so...

but of course that isnt to say dont give feedback or feel apprehensive about feedback, alot of things we have in game was feedback. pteranodon spearfishing clams from mud was a pretty interesting concept someone here came up with and drew whole diagrams for. the elder system as a whole started as a suggestion. hell, herbivores being playable is because of suggestions/feedback

[autumn zephyr]

@vale brook did u just take the AI's job and reacted to my suggestion so others can react to it? 😭

#balance-feedback message
To be honest id rather all the carnivores to get an alt bite while swimming rather than none of them

[pulsar sail]

Allo spam bite is busted though. When you have hundreds of people saying so then maybe they have a point.

[vale brook]

no i agree, thats what the second part of the first message was mainly about

with everything going on right now, it may not be a high priority to go back and tweak allosaurus while the animation team is knee deep with other rigs right now

kissen mentioned that it can take a bit to relearn a rig if they havent worked on it before, and depending on how slow they want allosaurus bite to be, it could be decently extensive

[vale brook]

no i agree and disagree with it but also the bot didnt do it so win win

[autumn zephyr]

What do you agree and disagree with?

[rain gyro]

The sleeping idea. I'd love it as an emote and always did. Along with nudging for paired dinos and babies because it's adorable.

I don't know how I'd feel about it being a forced must mechanic. We are already forced to do a lot of things already. It's already a lot to process and then having to waste time on doing nothing and watching a sleep meter just seems a bit... boring and yet ANOTHER way to die and a boring way to die 👀 Wouldn't need ai if you could just snack on sleeping players. Stamina, hunger, water, 3 different diets, bleed seem to be enough to watch. Esp as your minds on Herrera in the trees, ptera in the sky (ask as a baby), crocs in water, allo and rex in bushes, dinos faster than you spotting you, hackers, etc.

[fossil wave]

Sleeping for fun ✅
Sleeping mandatory ❌

You should never FORCE your players to not play and afk

[true ginkgo]

@icy blaze I get wanting prime teno to have more weight, but regular teno is double the size/weight of irl teno already. If it gets much bigger you may as well have iguanodon instead.

Honestly I wouldn't mind regular teno being smaller if they could find a way to make it a bit faster and also better in the water.

[void wind]

Ngl, teno doesn't even need more weigt.
Like up to 2t would be nice to have, but teno is in a decent spot for its size rn. It can run from what it can't fight and it can fight what it can't run from.

Its pretty fast at prime, decent dmg, decent bleed.

All i wish was that its prime time was longer, because atm its over before you know it.

[true ginkgo]

yeah as much as i'd like the prime to have a bit more weight, regular adult teno itself is amazing rn. It can flee effectivly, fight effectivly, and is great at swimming.

Hell if it was up to me i'd make regular adult teno a lil bit smaller and capable of submerging.

[void wind]

Yeah, some more semi-aquatic life for teno would be nice and unique

[true ginkgo]

Most irl weight estimates of teno put it at 600kg-1000kg. So evrima regular adult teno is already far larger than even the largest estimates.

People seem to want something like muttaburrosaurus rather than teno.

[slim dragon]

Some people genuinely want that to happen

[fossil wave]

They can be wrong it's ok

[torn egret]

Most players sit afk to grow anyways. Especially on the long grow Dino’s.
But there’s no benefit nor reason for smaller tiers.
It would be interesting to see maybe an increase in “life expectancy” for creatures based on activity.
Not sure how it would work, since it would vary Dino to Dino I think.
But imagine if the bigger dinosaurs were encouraged to move more as they grew. Sort of like getting the exercise they need. And some dinos would live a more relaxed/ sedentary lifestyle. Trikes, Stegos, even Rex would be rewarded for not always running around. Since I think it’s kinda goofy for players to just sprint places, then rest for 3 min for the sake of “travel”. Troodons, raptors, beipi, pt, (just generally the shorter lived ones) would benefit from bursts of activity etc.
it would add some dynamic to travel, fighting etc.
but I’m also sure only the survival players/experience folks would enjoy this

[icy blaze]

if we talk about irl then you can dump the whole game in the trash because best example is the cerato

[icy blaze]

and thats the point. it can NOT run from everything. it either needs to be faster, or bigger

if ure 100% ure doomed plus irl, if you wanna talk about that, an adult fullgrown tenonto has this weight

[void wind]

100% being doomed is not a teno problem, thats kinda intended by the devs and goes for many other dinos

and youre going by the highest estimate ive ever seen for teno here, most estimates are way lower

[icy blaze]

thats what at least google says. so if you talk about irl, then please... and if we want to even get more into detail then we cant play all the dinosaurs at the saame time, because most of them havent even met

if no weight or speed for teno, then nerf the other dinosaurs.

[void wind]

Point is, teno in 75% - 88% range is great and in a really decent spot, if only the prime time was longer
Ofc the 100% teno is bound to die but thats what the devs are going for with their system, they dont want you to stay on your dino at 100%

[icy blaze]

well then the elder system shopuld be removed. problem solved

i have no time nor pacience to go and grow a dinosaur over and over and over again. i want to enjoy what i have reached.

[void wind]

Or just entomb and grow again. Teno grows super fast anyway.

There are servers with stop growth function, if you dont agree with the devs vision (understandable, not everyones cup of tea) those might suit you.

[icy blaze]

this elder system ruined the game for me from the beginning on

[icy blaze]

i dispise private servers

[hallow hinge]

they really have some priority issues, without fixing a dino they relase another and it makes it even harder to balance i am so suprised how they dont understand this, for example omni bleed is still buggy can be lowest bleed dmg in the game rn, there is some allo pounce, teno went s tier to f tier and like many things but they relased kentro it will grow like more and more

it's like they are building a stracture with fragile base, and imo eventually it will collapse, am really fan of this game but they wasting such a potential, they could make something really historical cuz there is no game like this

[slim dragon]

I'm surprised you don't understand a fact as simple as the fact the people in charge of balance are not the same as the ones who make new dinos
Besides, balance will be broken with every update so might as well add the new dinos first so that they don't have to spend half their time making balance passes

[hallow hinge]

am not talking about minor things for example maia were usless before they changed and buffed and now i see many of them

balance makes game people play what they want as their wish

this is an online game bro aware that

not playing against npc

[slim dragon]

There's still 2 of the 3 major factions missing
Balance isn't even something they can concern themselves with yet, they just need to make the game playable in the meantime

[hallow hinge]

do u think balance team never include anything else

if they are not, then its even bigger problem

[slim dragon]

I mean, I don't know what each one of them does, but yes, I assume there isn't anyone who ONLY does balance
Which is even more reason why they work on other things first
If you got the same person both doing the balance stuff and bugfixing, bugfixing obviously takes priority

But that's to be expected in a small team

[hallow hinge]

i know they are small that's why am telling imo they should really consern about feedbacks

[slim dragon]

What makes you think they don't ?

[hallow hinge]

am not hater like before they were really listening i have seen them

they give trood a venom by suggestion as i know

[mint star]

i think hypno was focused on game balance and bugfixing/reporting/etc

but then was moved over to focus specifically on bug reports and fixing(?)

[hallow hinge]

since allo relased they were caring cuz i have wintessed many suggestion comes true but rn i feel like they are scared to change allo and rex cuz they have big player base, it feels like they scared to lose them

[slim dragon]

LOL I don't think they are
I actually don't think they care at all

[hallow hinge]

they care the numbers

[slim dragon]

The Isle was never intended for a massive audience

[hallow hinge]

believe me

[slim dragon]

why would I ?

[hallow hinge]

if u would make a game, u would want to sell it more and if its passionate way game u would like to show all other people

[mint star]

they genuinely dont care about changing something because it has a big group of players

if the devs want it, they will have it

[hallow hinge]

now they have bigger palyerbase and it makes them more careless

i agree with u

[slim dragon]

The games I've made so far were for me before anyone else
Making games for people other than you is a sure way to make a game that you won't enjoy and therefore won't care about

[hallow hinge]

how many games u made?

[slim dragon]

4 small projects, and working on a bigger one rn

[hallow hinge]

are they publised ?

[slim dragon]

Yes, you can play them on itch.io

[hallow hinge]

so u would't want people play ur game?

u would like to play on by own ?

[slim dragon]

I want people who like my game to play my game, and people who don't like my game to go play other games

[hallow hinge]

is this ur job or hobby ?

[slim dragon]

both

[hallow hinge]

u making money with games only then ?

[slim dragon]

No
You're getting off-topic

[hallow hinge]

no am right on it actually

[slim dragon]

I don't see what my income sources have to do with the conversation

[hallow hinge]

am trying tell u this if it's professional and if u think way u think ur games will stay like that

[ruby ledge]

the isle is a passion project. it's pretty plain to see.

[mint star]

having a vision for the game isnt carelessness

[hallow hinge]

it was

not anymore

[ruby ledge]

is.

[slim dragon]

That would be true if I was the only one to think like that
But that is basically how all indie game devs think, and that's the reason why for the past few years indie games have always been better than triple A's

That's the difference
You think like an editor, I think like a developer

[hallow hinge]

if it was they would add some diffirent animation or mechanic with allo relase

[ruby ledge]

if you don't see the passion in it, thats a you issue.

[hallow hinge]

just just copy paste omni

that is not passion

[ruby ledge]

agree to disagree.

[slim dragon]

Is THAT your argument to say The Isle is not a passion project anymore ?

[hallow hinge]

my passion may be diffirent from yours cuz for me i would make evey dino unique

[slim dragon]

You would, if you could

[hallow hinge]

they have done that before if they want it they could

imagine all other dinos since dilo

[mint star]

the question is, how do you make allosaurus unique

[slim dragon]

Allo is such a generic theropod, the best way to make it unique would have been to not add it at all

[hallow hinge]

so simple

[mint star]

we've known that this is what the allosaurus would be like for years

[hallow hinge]

instead of pounce it could been latch mechanic

[mint star]

we've known that it would grapple and bleed and ""pounce"" and "omniraptor clone"

[slim dragon]

Which is where the "could" limit becomes relevant

[hallow hinge]

no cuz they trying to bring as many dino as they possible

[mint star]

all that takes is an animation change (which im fairly certain will be done, i remember dondi talking about the allosaurus needing to plant its feet more and drag)

like im fairly certain the whole allosaurus thing is one animation change away from everyone being happy

[slim dragon]

They're trying to complete the planned roster yeah
What's wrong with that ?

[mint star]

generic theropod strikes again

[hallow hinge]

am telling u this i would't relase with omni close

clone*

i would code and animate it with all these

[slim dragon]

I don't doubt that you would want to do that

[hallow hinge]

if i could believe me i would love to change all on my own without taking money

[slim dragon]

Here comes the "could" again

[hallow hinge]

am not developer

[slim dragon]

I figured that already

[hallow hinge]

so u trying to show off with ur worthless games ?

dont try me bro

[slim dragon]

?

[hallow hinge]

?

[slim dragon]

I'm not sure why you became so offended all of a sudden

[hallow hinge]

u become so personal

stay on topic as u said

[slim dragon]

You're the one who's been asking me personal questions for the past 15 minutes

[hallow hinge]

then u said u disturbed and i stopped am not here to argue with u mate

[ashen idol]

Why can the rex hit the trike with the knockback, isnt that unfair?

[hallow hinge]

there is many things unfair mate

[ashen idol]

I spent 10 mins on a pvp server and my trike couldnt do anything

Why bother playing anything but rex then

[hallow hinge]

yeah if rex is good trike has almost no chance

[ashen idol]

Sounds fair

[hallow hinge]

that was my main topic without balance u cannot play what u wish

u will be meta player if u wanna enjoy

[ashen idol]

Exactly

No way dude i have to play rex now

Even though i like the trike much more

[hallow hinge]

sad

[ashen idol]

Well time to see what muts are the best

[true ginkgo]

you're using google AI?

the same thing which gives 20 ton spino sometimes when asked?

also i effortlessly survived as teno over and over, just by sticking close to water. the second an allo or rex runs at me, just swim away.

killed two rexes by swimming in circles around them and distracting them until they run out of stam and drown

[glacial vale]

wall just keep you back to a wall if your prime and they are to you win face tank if they leg break play closer to the wall all you need to do is make sure of where you are and you can out stam a rex

[ashen idol]

The rex did some weird move where he did some sort of hit-and-run strategy that kept knocking me back as soon as he touched my trike

He kept disengaging so i couldnt hit him

[glacial vale]

do you have a clip or somthing also was he knocking you back while you were sparring cause trike is smaller than rex

[ashen idol]

It kind of stunned my trike but i can try again later today

[ashen idol]

I will record it the next time

[glacial vale]

pretty sure that was it's pin

[glacial vale]

k

[ashen idol]

We were both fully grown btw

[glacial vale]

if it pins i think it stuns both if it uses to many it has to rest

[glacial vale]

100%?

[ashen idol]

Idk how get a prime on that server but i saw prime trikes

[ashen idol]

Yes you spawn in like that

[glacial vale]

oh what server

i'd be down to 1v1 you

[ashen idol]

It was a pvp deathmatch server

Ok ill be at home in about 20 mins

[glacial vale]

bet

just mention me i'll prob me online

[ashen idol]

Alright

[pulsar sail]

https://www.thedinopark.com/tenontosaurus.html

https://dinosaurencyclopedia.org/tenontosaurus/

https://dinosaurdictionary.com/tenontosaurus/

https://www.thoughtco.com/tenontosaurus-1092988

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenontosaurus

https://www.prehistoric-wildlife.com/species/tenontosaurus/

https://dinosaurmuseum.jp/en/dinosaur/tenontosaurus/

https://paleontologyworld.com/dinosaurs-–-species-encycolpedia/tenontosaurus

https://everything.explained.today/Tenontosaurus/

https://www.extinctanimals.org/tenontosaurus.htm

[icy blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/iceage-possum-peaceout-gif-2272177960667492692

[true ginkgo]

you didn't post a single primary source there.

modern primary sources typically point to a weight between 600kg and 1 ton.

but even if it was accurate, i disagree with this constant 'make dino bigger' as a way to buff an animal.

opening that can of worms could very easily result in animals getting constantly bigger across balance patches until you've got kaiju battles

[crisp atlas]

I noticed many people calling for lesser animal spawns so that big carnivores population can balance a lil.

i think the big carnivores can just play with lesser AI animal reliance too, but it should also has slower hunger decrease, with greater stomach capacity.
Then without the AI, players will find it still realistically possible (tho challenging) to survive on player food.. but for now, there isn't even any herbi avail for me (juvenile t-rex) to hunt, so far only seen 4 (2babies sized like boar) after playing for about 40hours.. if you guys remove the AI turtles, i will quit the game properly.. i bought the game to play t-rex... ._.

[vale brook]

to be frank, rex already has the longest hunger drain in game and can get to prime elder purely off boar, turtle, and deer AI.

it definitely needs to be lessened

or at the very least, rebalanced so boar/deer arent the more prevelant AI, and focus more on the smaller animals such as chicken/rabbit/frog & the upcoming AI for juvies such as lizards/snails/insects

[tardy wind]

In response to this @viscid mica #balance-feedback message

I think the cera bacteria could use some changing, but not for this reason. The purpose of changing bacteria to stay for longer periods of time is to encourage you to go and deplete it on a salt rock. I think it's a nice way to involve the environment more, and create more hazards to engaging with Cerato if you don't have to.

However, it would be nice if upon reaching full bacteria, you wouldn't throw up instantly but rather have a random interval between say 20 seconds - 2 minutes where you'll throw up UNLESS you can reach a salt rock beforehand. More interactivity rather than INSTANT throw-up / stun-lock would be more engaging.

[thorn mountain]

@olive topaz you can in the hordetest

[viscid mica]

Cerato is hands down one of the most op Dino’s on the game right now that’s simply ignored due to Rex speed and pin and allo bleed and pin it doesn’t need to be any stronger, I get the environment involvement but they need to reduce ceras power bit before doin all that

[tardy wind]

I agree Cerato is strong, but that's mostly due to it being more of a generalist surrounded by specialists. It's COMPLETELY out-competed by Allo and Rex right now, and generally loses any confrontation with Carno (the spam headbutt is ridiculous). It's excellent at 1v1ing herbivores of similar size but otherwise I feel like it's strength is really overestimated.

In my personal opinion, Cerato's only issue right now is with the combo of the speed / stability multiplier of the charge bite. The multiplier is absolutely needed in it's confrontations with carno (and maybe Allo), but otherwise generally just makes fighting things like Teno and Kentro too easy (Teno being in a slightly better spot with faster sprint and trot speed). It should probably lose more speed while the multiplier is active than it currently does.

[viscid mica]

Cera stomps allo ngl at least I’ve never lost to a allo before

And losing to carno? Uhhh if your smaller by a decent bit maybe

It’s funny cuz kentro of the later 3 mentioned is the harder fighting having the cc power damage and bleed to actually make cera worry about their attacks

[keen plover]

no shot

Cera does not stomp allo

[viscid mica]

It’s really really simple, max chargebite trade hit run past rinse repeat. So long as you don’t sit on top of the man and let him machine gun you you win.

[keen plover]

Sure? but that is not what a stomp is 😭 the cera at best will be hurting badly

[viscid mica]

Ah but that’s were your wrong, considering max charge bite does 5x damage of ceras regular bite NOT including damage mutations WHICH unlike most ceras chargebite does fully benefit from AND including bile cerato can SHRED allo in a matter of handful of charge bites

[keen plover]

5x???????????????????????????

[viscid mica]

You only depending on the allos skill have to take 4-7 hits the most I’ve taken is 9

[viscid mica]

Hahaha and now you see why I say cerato is op

Yup if you max chargebite your bites you can technically without mutations out damage a deinos bite

[cosmic pelican]

An adult cera's charged bite does 345dmg, thats a 2,3x multiplier. Where the heck did you get 750dmg from?! Thats more than an adult rex's bite force.

[viscid mica]

We’ve managed to take sub Rex’s as well abut only in a duo and the biggest was a mid 5toner

[viscid mica]

Last time we tested on a server that’s what we got could have changed since than but from my experience that sounds rather low for how quickly we are killing things

[cosmic pelican]

My man, that would mean cera can 2 shot itself

Which is NOT the case

[viscid mica]

I mean your right

I’m assuming that my calculations aren’t accounting for headshots due to the way fighting a allo functions

That and mutations

[viscid mica]

Not 5x

[tardy wind]

If Allo just spam bites it out dps's Cerato tenfold.

[viscid mica]

Don’t sit under its face letting it spam bite you… that’s like obvious isn’t it?

[tardy wind]

And Cerato's chargebite stability negates the CC on Kentro's defensive stance. It can trade and win

[viscid mica]

Bro I see all these videos of kentros using def stance against ceras WERE THEY AT CUZ THEY AINT USING IT AGAINST ME!?

[tardy wind]

Hard to do with how fast it's turnrate it. Im not saying it wins all the time, ofc skill is a factor in this but Cera is at a severe disadvantage In any case Ive seen

[viscid mica]

Every kentro we’ve fought goes for power swings

[tardy wind]

And you're losing to powerswings? Its extremely telegraphed and hard to hit on the Kentro's end with how nimble Cera is

[viscid mica]

Not really Cera is still faster and it’s not as fast as you think it gives you more than enough time to get the distance to start charging the next bite

[viscid mica]

Not always but considering server stability and hit is death with its current damage

I find fighting tenos far easier but that’s not accounting for server stability

So couldn’t fairly say atm

[viscid mica]

I could agree with the disadvantage but I don’t think it’s as bad as you make it sound it’s a lot more like a 60/40

[olive topaz]

Oh amazing!! I can't access it myself and must have missed it in notes

[cosmic pelican]

@lunar cipher what you met was almost certainly an organised clan, in my 5 years of playing on official servers Ive never seen any group that big.

Sadly theres nothing that can be done to limit such groups because clans usually have dedicated people to grow and feed their megapack. :/

[lunar cipher]

So the only way to really deal with them is thin them out if you know where they hang out on a server?

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah, or dont play on that server at all

It sucks I know, but thats how it is

The silver lining is that people who play in groups like that usually have a severe skill issue, so a couple organised carnos could probably wipe their whole pack

[lunar cipher]

It was offical EU 11 near nother lake and the river running up to it. A lot of the large raptor groups like that have been hanging out near two big rocks over there not far from the crater cave place with the water inside it and rabbit spawns.

[limber portal]

@harsh lark my guy carno is already strong. Doesn't need frac

@bold vessel why shouldn't stego be pinned from behind?

[harsh lark]

Carno is "strong" but other options are superior at it's own niche. If I want to kill a raptor or pachy that will beeline for a rock after I attack it, being a 500 kg juvi rex is better. As a juvi rex I can pin, and if I can't pin my crush can also potentially fracture it. Carno being able to fracture after a 6+ second, slow turning charge is still more lenient than what virtually every other carnivore can do.

[torn egret]

Carno is a good small game hunter. It doesn't really need much more rn.
Carno feels "weak" because so few are playing the smaller tiers that it would naturally go after in game.
It's got its own feel and playstyle

If the turn radius is made worse when charging its not gonna fair well imo.
Its a dash and smash kind of hunter

Start a charge, if you miss, turn around and charge again.

[harsh lark]

This is something juvi rex does better. The problem with carno is that it goes through mental gymanstics for a single kill while similar predators just have to land one attack and be done with it. It's not lackluster due to lack of options, go onto any server with population control and there should be plenty of raptors to hunt. The problem is that Carno isn't the best at what it does.

Compare these two scenarios where I want to kill a raptor-

As Carno: I have to charge for 6+ seconds, time the headbutt to hit them, hopefully headshot for extra damage, immediately turn around and land a hit or two before they get up. Chase after them when they start to run. Hope they don't know the basic movement tech of outturning a slow turning carno. Be able to track them through bushes if they run into the jungle, and overall keep up the pressure until they mess up and let themselves get hit. I also need to hope I can kill them before they find something to jump up on, since that's an instant failed hunt for me.

As juvi rex/Allo/Omniraptor/Herrera: Ambush and land a single crush or pounce to instakill them.

Forgot to mention but smalls can also just use water to easily escape a chasing carno since they gave Carno disaster-level swim speed + swimming stamina drain.

[torn egret]

It's just the playstyle though.
A fg/Prime Carno can do alot.
Back when it was an instant hit/ no activation for a charge hit they were all over.
Other things being "broken" like juvi rex is a different issue.
Herrera is supposed to ambush because that's its only real attack.
But Carno can do alot, even against decent sized targets.
If you can't get a target before they get to water then that's it.
You can't balance around people using the environment to their advantage.
It has it's own ambush style. And the knockdown is pretty rough if it hits.
But the only difference between now and old carno charge is you have to aim the attack.

Not to mention, Juvi rex being better at killing things its size is fine. It doesn't get to stay there long (Though I do think its a bit too fast)

[harsh lark]

Carno was popular when charge was automatic because Allo/Rex didn't exist back then. And an "Ambush style" where you barely actually benefit much from an ambush is a pretty poor excuse of an ambush. Especially compared to other carnivores that can kill confirm off an ambush. Carno arguably has the worst cc in the game. Not only do you need to put yourself in a slow turning telegraphed charge to do it, you can barely punish the knockdown since you need to turn around + lack any hard heavy attacks.

Carno is just a janky, contradictory playable. It gives up everything to hunt small prey but gets outperformed at its own specialty by other carnivores. Juvi rex growing out of its speed phase isn't a downside, if anything thats an upside. When a carno is getting old, losing its speed in frail elder and eventually forced to entomb, a juvi rex gets to grow into a sub rex that can kill bigger things a prime carno has no chance against.

[torn egret]

Well, the rex and carno serve different purposes...
The old charge was busted lol.
W key warrior special

[harsh lark]

What's the point of "Different purposes" when rex also does Carnos purpose as a juvi + gets to go on and do other things as a sub/adult while Carno is stuck becoming a frail elder? Carno got power crept by the rest of the game.

[torn egret]

But it doesn't really.
And Rex is overtuned anyways.
A broken/busted playable is not a good benchmark of performance.
Not to mention a crew of Carnos can mog a juvi rex if they are skilled.

[harsh lark]

Outside of its prime adult speed and turning, Rex isn't really overtuned. Juvi rex is actually one of the better designed juvies since you're encouraged to run around and play as it instead of sitting in a bush. Plus its not just a juvi rex thing, Omni/Allo also outperform carno at small prey hunting since they can just pin stuff. Carno is the one that should be brought up to the level of these other playables, instead of bringing down multiple other dinos to carnos level.

Idk why you think a carno pack beating a juvi rex matters, any dino will mog a similar sized solo if they gank it in a group. The original argument was about how carno is a worse small game hunter.

[torn egret]

It’s showing that only the player holds back the playable.
Carno does exceptionally well against things smaller than it.
Omni and allo pins etc are a bit of a throwaway since Raptor is small, and allo is pretty slow.
(Pin does need work though, but Carno toppling something is definitely close to a guaranteed kill)

[harsh lark]

Raptor is "Small" but it's actually big enough to pin most of the smalls Carno is supposed to specialize in. You can pin a galli, other raptors, troodon, herrera, etc. Only Pachy and Dilo can't be pinned, but Omni can still go after these dinos with bite or latch. Allo is slower and bigger, but it at least does kill confirm if it manages to land its pounce.

A full knockdown from Carno is hardly "Close" to a guaranteed kill. At best its equivalent to 2-3 free hits. Which will hurt a small dino sure, but still gives them plenty of leeway to run away at full strength. At which point all they need to do is find a rock, cliffs, water, or some bushes to throw the carno off their tail.

[torn egret]

Carno deals like 175 dmg tho on a bite.
So that 350+ and the charge damage,
That's alot.
That'll kill most things, plus Carno is way faster than most of its prey

[bitter iris]

Carno is the fastest carnivore in the game he has to have one weakness and shouldn’t be able to push to much above his weight. He can always run from fights. He’s is strong at what he is ment to do.

[bitter iris]

And knocks em over

[harsh lark]

Carno does 175 on the full long charge headbutt and 150 on a bite. So at minimum you get 325, assuming no headshots and you only get one free bite before they get up. Most smalls (At least the ones big enough to feed him decently) will survive that and be able to run away. Carno is faster but that's all it has, its prey just has to juke it until it finds rocks, water or bushes. Easy to do against one of the slowest turners in the game.

[torn egret]

I mean you could learn the charging slide.
That makes turning way easier.

There’s a lot Carno can do.
I enjoy it personally

[harsh lark]

Carno has a ton of weaknesses it exchanges for its speed.

• Bad turning.
• Bad stamina.
• Bad HP.
• Bad blood pool.
• Bad swimming.
• No jump.
  I never mentioned Carno should hunt bigger things. It should just be the best at hunting small things if its going to give up literally everything else to do that.

[harsh lark]

Doesn't really help since it stil kills your momentum. Any decent player will just juke you until they get to a place you can't follow them. All the power to you if you still enjoy carno, but from a game balance perspective it should be better at what it does.

[bitter iris]

Good stam, why in the world would it have jump??? It does not need swimming cause it can get away on land (things with good swimming normally can’t run away), well of course it will have bad blood it needs someway for predators to catch up to it, it’s hp does not need to be high (it just shouldn’t be hit and if smth does hit it it’s small). Imagine if carno had good turning literally nothing could get away

You forgot to mention it’s amazing drift to make up for its turning

[torn egret]

Its stam isn’t that bad… its got a lot of weight which is its hp, its got low bleed resistance but thats cause its not a brawler.
Its a runner not a swimmer, and most of the roster can’t jump lol

Like, carno is fire.
It’s not bad just has a higher skill ceiling.
I’ve killed sub Maias as a solo sub carno

[harsh lark]

I think you misunderstood me. I am not complaining about it having those downsides. I am saying it should be a better small game hunter in exchange for all those cons. Instead of being worse at small game hunting than juvi rex.

All those downsides affect its ability to hunt small game. Bad swimming = small dinos can jump across rivers to evade it. No jump = small dinos can get on rocks to be 100% safe from it. Low blood pool = small dinos can easily turn the tables on it if they fight back with bleed attacks like Omni's bleed pounce.

If you're going to design a playable with a ball and chain around its leg, it should at least be amazing at its intended purpose to make up for those losses. Not just decent or good enough.

[vale brook]

i mean, it is

just because some animals are able to set up ambushes and kill small game with a pin doesnt negate that

[bold vessel]

Because it doesn't make sense to be able to just throw your body into those sharp spikes with no consequences.
And if pin does stay how it is rn, then having some ways to counter it is very necessary.

[vale brook]

NO animal can control the plains like carno can currently

omnis just fall apart against a carno unless they break LOS or get on a rock. with carnos drift and spammable RMB (while standing still, mind you), it just deletes things smaller than it

[limber portal]

rex is 12 tons

stego is about half

[vale brook]

if youre gonna use prime rex you should use prime stego too

that stego specifically though... i dunno what he was thinking

middle of open area with no where to hide

im not even sure how the rex managed to get that close to him lol

i did see something relatively interesting about rebalancing stegos growth curve, and taking some of the weight gain it gets in prime and giving it to the adult

i think the suggestion was 7.5t adult, current prime? not totally sure of exact numbers

[bold vessel]

I couldn't hide because they had a juvi helping them, and rex trot speed is too fast lol.

[vale brook]

ahhh yeah that'll do it

[bold vessel]

Yeah my stego was smaller, but it was still a good size that feels like it shouldn't be pinned so easy

[vale brook]

well, the juvie

stego generally has the stam to escape rexes unless theyre deep into their prime

[bold vessel]

I was running for a while already all the way from sp but he was keeping up

[vale brook]

sounds like prime rex strikes again 😔

i really dont know why they get so fast

[harsh lark]

Any pair of decent Omni players will make a carno fold. You just juke and pounce and keep juking until the carno burns enough stam or blood to let you pin it. And that’s if you feel like fighting it, smalls have the option of just jumping on a rock for safety. Carno is the fastest on paper, but can’t actually choose its fights against Dino’s that know they can run it down with better stamina and tracking.

The only saving grace Carno has against Omni is that most raptor players are passive and too scared to try fighting it.

[limber portal]

@viscid mica why exactly do you think this is good?

[viscid mica]

I don’t but I also don’t think changing clone damage is good

Clones can be destroyed btw

[limber portal]

Have you played ht?

[viscid mica]

Tons yes

As just about every short of a apex

[limber portal]

Why should clones do as much damage as you do?
It makes the gameplay lazy. Clones should be a distraction for you to make your own play

Make the clones stronger in other ways

[harsh lark]

Clones are a representation of the damage the venom is doing to you, they are not literal entities hurting you

[viscid mica]

Ah simple it’s super easy to tell it’s a clone their movement patterns are basic and any decent player with abit of experience could easily tell the clones are a embodiment of DOT(damage over time) and one you can eliminate at that

I think the vision bug currently on dilo is not enjoyable but the clones doing damage isn’t the problem

Before the clones first broke they worked splendidly could be destroyed before hitting you and not come at you all that fast as you have limited charges and require time to ge them the only problem was the um…. Flying ones

[viscid mica]

Well I mean they are but you get what the intent is

Theoretically speaking if your fast enough you can be t3 and take 0 damage from clones

[vale brook]

im sorry but if youre dying to two omnis as carno i really dont know what to say

[viscid mica]

COUGHS IN RMB SPAM

[vale brook]

^ it really is that simple

[harsh lark]

Yeah tbh you should be taking dmg even if the clones can’t hit you. The way they designed solos venom makes it so you can “avoid” the venom in your veins which makes no sense

[vale brook]

"oh no, the omni is running towards me"

hit rmb once looking in his direction

the omniraptor is dead now

[viscid mica]

They’d have to nuke the time your in t3 if they did that it’s Bette too let them be destroyable and makes the skill difference in players more of a factor

[harsh lark]

Like every mid-large herb can also spam knockdown attacks, carno isn’t really special in that regard. If anything it’s worse since it has no heavy punisher to capitalize on a knockdown

[viscid mica]

The difference is RMB can be spammed significantly faster and carno is THE fastest creature in the game

[vale brook]

i mean, do you need a heavy punisher when you can just... stand on the animal and just RMB it to death in less than 2 seconds

[limber portal]

one thing we agree on is that the rmb spam is nuts. i dont htink it was intended

[viscid mica]

It’s an old bug from Rex HT when they adjusted carno so that it had more of a skill variable but they never added a timer and are more focused on pushing new stuff atm than a what I think they see as “minor” balancing problem

[vale brook]

#general-feedback message

this animal definitely dies to omnis

[viscid mica]

The skill variable being manual RMB btw… the change also cause for you to be able to just hold it indefinitely, which is why it’s so easy to get max value charges regardless of if you’re running or not

[viscid mica]

OMG THAT WAS WHEN HOLDING RMB BLOCKED POUNCE LMAO

At least they fixed that

Some awful times

[vale brook]

very jukable with a basically 180 turn like old diablo, while being the fastest animal in the game!

very winnable, when you get 3 shot by the headbutt! (the first headbutt WILL knock you down, and you WILL get the other 2 headbutts before you get up)

if anything i fear carno may need a nerf or two

or maybe a readjustment is a better word for it

[viscid mica]

Ya it needs some adjustments

-cooldown on charge
-only gains knock cap when running

Should do the trick

[vale brook]

nnno thats not how i would do it

[viscid mica]

Like we killed full grown prime carnos as Omni before it’s just really difficult

[vale brook]

hold on let me find my message with my carno thing

i forgor

[viscid mica]

I’m really hesitant to go all in on some nerfs as the aisle community has a bad habit of getting annoyed with something and then begging for it to get super nuked and then when it gets super nuked, it takes forever to get rebalanced to a good point

I mean, take pachy as an example

[viscid mica]

The anti pounce mechanism is already gone

[vale brook]

2/7/26

[viscid mica]

Blood on the headbutt I think should stay but I could understand giving it charges for use though 2-3 is a abysmal number

[vale brook]

well that says changes not charges

[viscid mica]

You know what could probably use charges on a pretty solid, long cooldown crush

[viscid mica]

Oh I’m illiterate LMAO

BUT MY POINT STWNDS

[vale brook]

happens to the best of us