balance-feedback-discussion

[tight cove]

I didn’t know that thx

[frosty heron]

Because the Rex needs to have some skill and awareness to avoid getting hit by that , and not getting CCed in a spar by any means or you lose the fight from a single thrash , what its funny is even after the nerfs people still complaining about the crush

The very only Carnivore able to fight herbs as solo yet they want it gonne , let the BIAS strike and make the biggest apex carnivore so bad it gonna turn into a scavenger

[steep gazelle]

It's because of the pin and fracture that they're still complaining, even though the damage has been reduced

[frosty heron]

Rex only pins Trike once certain damage threesold has been meet , considering theyre both adults

[steep gazelle]

Rex needs back crush damage, but a limit to 60% of his weight to be able to inflict pin and fracture

[frosty heron]

And if im not mistaken that dmg should be as soon the bar turns orange

[steep gazelle]

With this, Rex will be exceptionally good against things smaller than 6 tons, and against larger ones it will still be very good, and it will be fair for both

[tight cove]

@wanton current dilo needs more of a clone rework than a nerf i think especially with all the recent stuff going on in the HT.

[wanton current]

yea that's what im saying. Dilo by itself is ok, but the venom and clone stuff is game breaking

[faint robin]

Because pin and fracture are both autowin moves no matter how much crush does.

[faint robin]

It's still a massive loss of trike's hp in a rex fight from the start

Rex having so much autowin trash is too much for it and it's opponents

Even if crush did like 1 dmg it will still be op cuz spam crush, fracture, target is practically dead, normal bite, pin, win

[hasty coyote]

basically, rex doesnt have to care about trike's actual hp, since it either leg fractures or pins early, effectively meaning that trike has less hp in the fight. So it would be best if rex's crush damage was kept high, but the fracture was changed to body fracture or only applied while pinning and the pin would not scale above rex's own weight even with increased thresholds. However, trike being able to spar lock a rex to death by spamming the heavy attacks is also equally toxic and needs to go. Sparring in general needs changes to not just be button spamming too.

[viscid mica]

Or just remove its ability to fracture if it doesn’t pin and make it impossible to pin a FG+ trike because I respectfully think there is never a good reason for anything over a 5+ hour grow to be dam near 1 tappable or free99

[hasty coyote]

That is exactly what I was saying lol

[viscid mica]

Large+ should be immune to any other apex short of something shant + size having the ability to unironically invalidate its existence

[viscid mica]

Yeah…

Sorry Rex pin Math and fracture annoys me

It’s anti fun

[hasty coyote]

Yeah rex is currently balanced around just turning off the opponent’s ability to play the game, which is incredibly toxic for the opponent and incredibly hard to balance for the Rex.

[viscid mica]

It’s one thing if it’s a smallish Dino

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, rex also ain’t the only one with this problem

[viscid mica]

But the fact Rex can crush directly through stego power swing is diabolical

[viscid mica]

Indeed, the only difference is size

[hasty coyote]

Not even that, trike currently just turns off stego by constantly flipping it and can spar lock a Rex. It’s kinda a global issue with many dinos relying too much on cc or methods of removing counterplay. For certain species it’s fine, but the abundance of it is a major issue.

[viscid mica]

Good point

[hasty coyote]

Yeah anything under 2-3 tons is def fair game, but above that and Rex is faster, which becomes a major problem since none of the larger dinos have a way to run away other than… very slowly running away.

[viscid mica]

Under 5* Rex isn’t faster than much above that but I do agree

Anything over that 4ish+ hour mark of growing

[hasty coyote]

its already faster than diablo in ambush, and diablo is 3 tons

about the same speed as allo, and allo is even lighter

[viscid mica]

See that’s where ambush is the problem and not pin

I respectfully don’t even like the idea of ambush

On anything short of allo

And even than I’m iffy

[hasty coyote]

I don't either, but I don't see it leaving

honestly I'd be fine if it still pinned anything under like 5 tons, so long as the pin was limited in duration and only deals like 2500 damage, but it body fractures. So you have a chance to escape, but you better do so quickly

[sonic flame]

@onyx lichen yo, might steal some ideas from your Cera suggestion for one of my own

That vomit increasing body buff range is peak actually

[onyx lichen]

Ty

[sonic flame]

Would you be interested in seeing my wip suggestion? Can dm it to you if ya want to give it a look

[onyx lichen]

Sure

[viscid mica]

Tbf unless for like dibble who just happens to be slow as all hell I don’t mind it

[crystal stream]

Can’t stand this games balance

They on some dinosaur world mobile level combat at this point

At first when playing this game I thought the combat would be so much better but little did I know it’s just getting worse and worse

[dusky surge]

genuinely not sure what you're referring to since you gave no examples lol

unless it's literally just carno again

[mint star]

probably referring to ceratosaurus prime elder being 2 tons

[haughty grotto]

@burnt dove that is not true
Fresh spawn allo cannot pin u
If you are 88kg, the allo must have been at least 140kg to be able to pin

[hidden kettle]

quick question, why is Dilo slower than carno ? And why doesnt it have a significant better NV than others if its a noctu ? 😄

i remembered it to be slighty faster, maybe i just have broken memories 😄

[burnt dove]

it was phisically smaller than me, and i was where allo spawns, so i find it quite strange tbh

[steep gazelle]

Because Carno is designed to be the fastest carnivore

[shy ember]

1. Because carno being the fastest playable is its namesake and it should be faster than dilo
2. Don’t know, night vision should definitely be better for dilo and troodon

[hidden kettle]

ye but doesnt it balance a lot by speed.. a Dilo is just forced to die in that situation since its turing aint like omni..and that doesnt feel right imo 😄

[steep gazelle]

Dilo can kill Carno, due to the Bluetooth clone damage. Dilo can also escape by entering a forest.

[hidden kettle]

well NV in general is no cake atm but i would have thought that creatures of the night would get their advantage at least 😄

[steep gazelle]

But Carno is a small prey hunter now, Why shouldn't he be good at hunting things smaller than himself?

[hidden kettle]

true. was just wondering since i remembered dilo being faster ..

[hidden kettle]

well small prey is questionable sometimes tho 😄

[crystal stream]

More talking about stun attacks that completely waste 3 to four hours worth of growth a pin or crush attack that with one button can completely immobilize and kill you and yes a animal that can move fast as hell turn pretty much on the spot has insane Stam and a dumb headbutt attack that can be spammed it’s not rocket science big dawg

[dusky surge]

Well in the case of rex and allo, that pin attack only really applies if you're already well below their weight, in which case the combat is likely already skewed against you

[crystal stream]

The pin is a click to win attack with zero counter play if your a dibble not fg obv and you get spotted by a allo you my as well jst turn the pc off because unless the allo forgot how to click the pounce button you are almost guaranteed to die im not saying that the dibble needs to be able to always survive but the fact the allo can run you down click a button and completely eliminate hours of progress is stupid this applies for other animals as well getting hit once by a dibb just for you to be completely helpless as it walks up and completely mauls you simply because he held down left click same for Carno you get completely rolled as a Omni because there nearby Carno who spotted you across the lake ran all the way to you and by using its insane speed and increased turning to just wipe the floor with you by clicking left mouse button

[dusky surge]

I agree that dibble is godawful atm, but I think that more comes down to how desperately dibble actually needs a buff at this point. It is walking Rex and allo food, to the point it’s literally AI they farm

[crystal stream]

I mean yeah but what more could you change about dibble to buff it has great turning well it did cough cough has insane dmg and has the ability to knock things around like a gorilla it probably has something to do with the auto win pin mechanic and also because there just is so many more allos and Rexes running around who imo should be able to hunt a dib just hopefully it would actually take skill in a head to head with allo v dibb dibb takes the cake most times then not it’s just when the dibble is young or outnumbered is when that’s a problem and tbh not much you can do besides make it so allo has to put a bit more effort then just pinning and winning

[dusky surge]

imma be real, dibble does not have insane damage at all, honestly it's moderate if not poor for its size

you want insane damage, that's trike, dibble doesn't have it

its strongest move is basically just the same damage as a regular hit, the only benefit is that it hits twice

[crystal stream]

Maybe I’m crazy but last time I checked a dibble weighs about 3 tons crazy so idk about you but getting knocked then getting hit for idk the exact amount seems like some good dmg to me I mean tbh your never going to convince that dibble isn’t very strong for its size

Anytime I think of dibble ever being weak I remember Mia exist mia can be crazy in the right hands tho

[dusky surge]

idk what maia existing has to do with dibble lol

dibble has been nerfed to be food for allo and rex with its bizarre speed and drift nerfs

maia can still run from all of those things easily

maia is far better off lol

[hasty coyote]

For context of how low Diablo’s damage is, Maia has incredibly low damage for its size to compensate for the fact that it’s incredibly fast and has good cc. And Maia’s strongest attack deals just as much as Diablo’s 2nd strongest attack (both being 350 total, only beat by Diablo’s thrash by like 100 damage). So Maia’s combo (shove into stomp) deals ~400, while diablos’s combo (sprint into maul) deals ~600. What makes Maia incredibly strong is its speed and its attacks that actually deal damage have limitations that can be circumvented through skill. Diablo however lacks speed, has less hp, and its weaknesses can’t be circumvented after constant nerfs.

Though to be fair, Diablo does have higher knockdown ranges, but that doesn’t matter much when those higher hp targets can literally trade attacks and win.

Diablo (assuming it’s hitting all headshots) would kill allos in about 3 combos, or 5 if it’s hitting body shots. Allo can literally tank knockdown and thrash, then pounce on the side of the Diablo during the stun immunity, and repeat until the Diablo dies first.

[faint robin]

Rex can still pin same sized trike

[dusky surge]

this is very true, it's almost criminal just HOW poor diablo's damage is. Hell, even the thrash, which we mentioned to be its strongest attack, is AWFUL on anyone that isn't knocked down, only doing a measly 200 damage while locking the diablo in place and having measly damage. It only does 600 damage total when actually used on a knocked target

compare that to trike's 4000 base thrash damage, and 6000 entire damage on a knocked target (10x that of diablo's) and it's night and day. The only thing diablo has against maia is both superior bleed res and bleed damage, although its output on bleed is so low it really doesn't matter. Its stamina is one of the worst in the game, actually being less efficient in running stamina than stego (an animal twice its size and several times its damage output), its speed is laughable since it can get run down by an adult rex, its turn rate and overall agility is on-par with trike's, so on

[dusky surge]

and this is why i dont think it needs extra damage on its crush like people have said

rex, in an encounter with trike, has the following win conditions

• fracture the trike, disabling quick movement, alt-attacks and sparring. At this point, you just win
• get the trike in execution range with low enough stam and health, finishing it off
• defeat the trike using regular bites that aren't crush should it have to

trike only has one real win conditon

• kill/scare off the rex

trike has the damage to do so, but has to be aware of these risks

[faint robin]

Im for buffing crush dmg but heavily nerfing pin and fracture conditions on trike

[dusky surge]

if you lower fracture conditions too much, you'll effectively never see rex fracture anything

[faint robin]

It def should have less autowin scenarios vs trike

[dusky surge]

to me, i personally prefer utility in special abilities as opposed to simply just more raw damage

[tall pagoda]

Rex shouldnt have a pin, nore a crush! It should be able to grab other dinosauers by the neck and drag them around like in the movies and suffacate them i guess

[dusky surge]

why would the animal with a crushing bite not have a crush

also atm it literally can pick up small animals and throw them around

if you want a suffocating animal, acro is planned

[tall pagoda]

Because i dont even know how the crush works becuase there are no t-rex guides anywhere. I thought crush is like a charge atack

All i hear is that people complain about crush

[dusky surge]

so why ask for it to be replaced if you know nothing about it lmao

also isnt grabbing something by the neck, dragging it around and suffocating it even worse than a pin? lol

[tall pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

[tall pagoda]

At least you can actually do smth on the receiving end

[dusky surge]

what? you're being suffocated and dragged around lol, i genuinely don't know what you're doing about that

it's just a deino grab tbh

[tall pagoda]

Thought it would be like the dibble fight but it actually does damage

[dusky surge]

rex can already do that with dibbles and trikes

[tall pagoda]

Ah

[dusky surge]

also adding such a system to every dinosaur would be extremely difficult

[tall pagoda]

Ok off course omni wont get dragged around by a t-rex

[dusky surge]

why not?

[tall pagoda]

Becuase he is too light and gets picked up and thrown around instead

[dusky surge]

you'd still need to have omni get dragged around because T-Rex isn't always an adult

[tall pagoda]

You know in the films the t-rex grabs the enemy by the neck?

Thats what i meant with draging around

Also how does crush work?

[dusky surge]

you use it, rex lunges forward, and depending on its weight, it either

• deals damage and some fracture damage if it's around its weight/bigger
• pins it if it's small and deals a lot of damage and fracture damage
• picks it up if it's tiny, which is basically an instant kill, and it can choose to throw or thrash it to death

also it can pin things that are larger than it normally could if they're low on health or stamina

[tall pagoda]

Oh

Is that why people complain about the pin?

[dusky surge]

there's a few reasons

but yea

[tall pagoda]

Also the fracture damage because it sounds like it will fracture no matter what

[dusky surge]

It will only fracture if you deal enough of said fracture damage

Just because it has fracture damage does not guarantee a fracture

[tall pagoda]

Thx

[elfin night]

I think I did the right thing

Making up for my previous deino suggestion months ago

[hasty coyote]

The issue is, Rex has specifically leg fracture, which is practically just a death sentence for anything. So being able to consistently fracture just means they only need to deal a small fraction of the target’s hp to effectively kill them, on top of having their pin which does the same but at least requires them lose the majority of their hp.

Imo one of 3 things needs to be done:
1: make the fracture only apply on pin
2: make the fracture body fracture instead
3:nerf leg fracture by making it not just disable 90% of attacks

[eager saddle]

In my opinion, yes

[robust ember]

Allos are to strong .. 2 pinned my 52% trike .. and i bleeded out in 1 min .. wtf?

[elfin night]

Let’s go

I would genuinely kill to have deino as an interesting ambusher

As opposed to the miserable gimmick trash it is now

[vale brook]

bleed is currently known to be too high

[elfin night]

It’s a hordetest, and allo is on its earliest stage

My best recommendation is to not take it to heart. HT is there for things to mostly die and gather information, balance included. You can provide information to your feedback and that could help adding changes in the future especially when there’s enough detail to not look like a complaint

Things get deleted anyway on every patch, so yeah, don’t grieve too much about dinos dying

[robust ember]

na you are right .. but at first .. i though .. holy quackamoli

[elfin night]

But yeah allo is defo eating a nerf

Or two

[robust ember]

i like that its a big raptor .. but atm it looks like its to strong. more then a rex :X

[elfin night]

It’s a WIP

It won’t be a giant raptor for long I believe

[hasty coyote]

iirc the only confirmed change is the animation not being allo lifted on the side, and instead with its feet on the ground along side the target.

[elfin night]

I know about it. Would be a shame if they stopped at just that

I think allo could get so much value out of a pounce if it were different

[eager saddle]

See I like the idea of stalking your prey and grabbing them. It adds a bit to the terror of the Isle, not to mention it's the reason I play Deino. But like the others have said many times before, it just results in becoming a Map check for players and as a result most deinos just sit in a small pond like West rail access where most people drink. Not much stalking involved. Your idea would give deino more accessibility in places where it would be impossible to get without making it completely unfair for the prey too. Not to mention it would be more fair to the hunger drain too because you would get a ''riskier but more succesfull'' option in case you really REALLY need food now. And the other option has less chance to actually catch something but guarantees the catch of the prey if you actually can reach it.

So yeah I think it's a very good change.

more viability for deino that doesn't come at the cost of the prey

[haughty grotto]

That sounds about right
As a solo trike you have two main threats: rex and allo groups

52% trike not that heavy or strong
You gotta be on a careful watch

[robust ember]

the only thing i was confused was the bleeding out

normaly .. trike thinks about bleeding .. yeah ... what ever

[bitter epoch]

i have been playing with cera the last few days and i feel like the allo vs cera matchup is not balanced at all. per paleontologist they were both the same weight class and would often compete for food; therefore, if the devs are going for "realistic" approach i feel like it should take more than one allo to pin a cera at the very least. also per paleontologist the cera and allo were both a rough estimate weight of between 2 - 3 tons and i feel like cera deserves a weight buff not just for elder but in general. it should be atleast 2k; otherwise, the allos weight should be reducted as well.

this is just my opinion but if cera is supposed to be the "corpse king" then i should not be getting pinned by allos in 1v1 scenarios, while standing over a corpse, right at the begining of our fight. ya i like the whole if you have low stam the allo can pin you, thats cool, i just feel like cera has been oershadowed by allos "indoraptor" play style. carno can out run the allo and rex can overpower it so i feel like at the very least, just like in the original Isle game, the cera should be able to out maunuver the allo in 1v1 scenarios, especially over corpses.

@stark knoll the devs have said they are going for more realism and if thats true then the cera is not an accurate game model at its current state in comparisson to the allo, when they were both top tier predators during their time together back in the day. right now allo is stomping all over cera like its a snack.

[stark knoll]

They have not

Not only are those "facts" wrong, they don't matter. Balance always comes before paleontological accuracy

The devs want them to be in separate classes

[bitter epoch]

well hopefully one of them can weigh into our diagreement and tell us otherwise, because 3 years ago dondi made a statement of pursuing a more realistic isle.

[stark knoll]

Plus, cera's prime weight just got upped. Maybe temporarily

[hasty coyote]

Realism =/= paleo accuracy
They want things to feel and look realistic, like no hypsi pinning an adult Rex. If they were going for paleo accuracy, they failed dramatically for the majority of the roster lol. We have a tiny penguin beipi, venomous troodon and dilo, Omni, drop bear Herrera, and an acid spitting, arboreal, king of saxony hypsi.

[bitter epoch]

you right you right

i guess um just but hurt because i keep getting fg cera and dieing from allos by being pinned to the ground like a rag doll lol

[hasty coyote]

That is a valid complaint, honestly they need to rework pins imo.

[bitter epoch]

it just makes it to where i wanna play herra and only harrass allos lol

[hasty coyote]

Just grow a Rex and pin them back lol

[steep gazelle]

Dude, Cerato is humiliated by Allo in paleontology. Cerato also never weighed more than 1300kg

[bitter epoch]

your right i fact checked myself earlier

[valid robin]

You’re not wrong, but Allo is way too strong on its growth curve compared to Cerato. For a decent portion of its growth it’s faster, and for some of that it’s stronger as well. On top of this, there’s literally no counterplay against pounce, once it’s on you, you just die, and since Allo can do about 1k damage off pounce by the time it’s 1300-1600 kg (only takes about an hour to grow here too), Allo can literally just spam pounce in combat and put you to red screen before you can really even get a bite off.

On top this, Allo also wins in a facetank due to having one of if not the fastest hitspeed in the game. For good game balance, adult Cerato should be able to effectively grief growing Allos even if it can’t reasonably contend with adult.

And yes, I’m aware prime exists, but everyone has this conception that prime Cerato is easy to achieve and that they are running around everywhere, when the reality is that Ceratos growth is so fast prime stats only last 5-10 minutes and it’s really hard to hit prime on Cerato anyway

[elfin night]

Devs never aimed to accuracy. If they changed their mind, I am genuinely interested to know about the source

Because I doubt they’re gonna throw balance and game design to the trash over “realism” of creatures that died millions of years ago

Oh wait

The conversation ended? Nvm if so

@hallow hinge allo is in early testing phase, it won’t remain like that forever

[native urchin]

considering allo cannot run from cera even when young, the growth curve of allo is totally fine! allo takes longer than cera to reach the same weight, without considering that in the next 10 minutes of fg cera reaches 2.1 tons... all this, a prime cera can chase down an allo.

allo aint strong at all at the moment, only thing going for him is that it doesnt get knocked off, which will be fixed xD

a solo cera should not want to fight an allo.... i disagree with 2.1 tons prime cera, beacuse even a regular adult allo should pin and kill a cera like its nothing. cera should have the advantage just with numbers (cera is faster, so)

[valid robin]

You seem to have a fundamentally different idea of what balance should look like. Generally, I am against pin mechanics. The fact that you seem to want Allo adult to be able to pin Cera whether it's prime or not to easily kill it speaks volumes. I don't think implementing this is fair or good gameplay, but to each their own.

Also I was never saying that adult solo cerato should want to fight adult solo Allo. I'm saying that adult solo Cerato should have a relatively easy time griefing juvie/sub Allo.

To clear up the facts, when growing, Allo reaches 40 kmh before 1k kg, peaks speed at 41.2 kmh at about 1200kg, and then slowly declines in speed until it dips below 40kmh just before 2k kg. Sub allo has considerably lower stamina use than fg Cerato which means it can run for an extended period of time. FG Cerato is also only 40.6 kmh max, which means that for the vast majority of both playables growths, Allo is either faster, stronger, or both.

IDK your experience but I've grown two Allos to FG or prime and played multiple Ceratos or rexes. Allo is broken. IMO Allo is the strongest rendition of a playable we've seen in Evrima. You say that the only thing Allo has going for it is the pounce, but even the wildly broken pounce aside, Allo literally has the strongest bite attack in the game. I haven't literally timed it but I think the bite CD on Allo is 0.4 s, about the same as Dilo, while Ceratos is about 0.6-0.7. With comparable biteforce, this means that Allo absolutely smokes cerato in a facetank.

The only time I've seen Ceratos win decisively in engagements with Allos is when the Ceratos have significant numerical advantage and the Allos run away and dont fight back. Every time I've seen the adults actually turn around and try to fight back in a semi-coordinated manner, they get a LOT of work done even in a 4 v 1 situation. A FG Allo can buzzsaw through a fullgrown Ceratos entire healthbar in about 2.5 seconds if it's standing still and headshotting it.

And the craziest thing is I'm talking all this flat damage, when Allo is supposed to a bleeder and does indeed have insane bleed

[native urchin]

im not a fan of the pin either in general, but its there. and allo is double the size of a cera, i dont see why cera shouldnt be pinned.... if the allo doesnt pin the cera has more agility and dmg output, beacsue prime cera has 190 biteforce, or more than 200 with hyper, while a fg allo has 175... yes bite speed is crazy (i dont think its going to stay).

a cera only gets pinned if it gets caught off guard, because every allo than can pin a cera is way slower

and puking...... the real issue is taht u cant knock off an allo, which (god have mercy)will be fixed i hope

[valid robin]

You cant compare primes to non-primes, obviously the primes are going to have a huge advantage

This is like saying pachy needs a nerf cause it's prime is too strong for omni adult to handle

[native urchin]

yea, but we were talkign about growth curve.... cera keeps the advantage for most of the allo life

allo weighs 400kg at like 40%, and bulks up to 1ton at 50% (more or less)

oh, and allo at 1.3 tons has like 80 bite force, if not less i think

[valid robin]

To be honest, I don't really remember the specific percentages, maybe tomorrow I will grow another one and chart it out

[native urchin]

i grew one yesterday, it grows slowly now. it has an issue while growing, which is the biteforce: at 80kg has like 40 bite force

and u can still be in sanct XD

[valid robin]

I do remember that, honestly I remember Allo growth being pretty easy due to how easily I could kill AI

[native urchin]

they changed the growth curve, it used to be like that in teh beginning..... now, kinda like rex, u have small ticks till like 80 kgs (u need to puke to get diets when spawning in).... then until 400kg u get 10/20kg per tick

BUT, they need to fix the bite force... it still grows insanely, for something 80kg, u 2 shot with bites anything in the sanct

[valid robin]

I'll chart it out so I can get a more accurate reading on the growth cycle, my claim though is that generally, since Ceratos speed tends to go up linearly with it's weight, you're slower than an Allo for most of your growth. You only hit like 38.5 at like 50% growth, and it takes you till like 65% or so to break 40kmh; during this entire time, any Allo in the 40 kmh range can basically run you down and kill you easily, and even as an adult if there are multiple sub Allos they can run you down and pin you b/c they are faster and there's literally no counterplay

[valid robin]

I will run some tests tomorrow to get a more accurate picture of what Allo's growth looks like so we can put this conversation to bed, it's hard to get a clear picture without knowledge of Cerato's growth times, Allos growth times, and their respective speeds during those growths.

I may be biased due to Allo pounce being so absurdly overtuned

[native urchin]

yea, tbh its a weird balance... allo is the same, if it gets spotted by 2/3 ceras its basically dead.... cant run from them.... and yea, dibble is the same, but dibble is more suited to defend itself.... terrain and its tools give it more of a chance

[valid robin]

NGL i feel like dibble is real loser this patch

[keen plover]

tbf you are a superior swimmer, so there's at least one movement state you can edge an allo out in

Sub cera can do it

[native urchin]

it is oppressive with not being able to knock it down.... i still like to consider the fact that the bleed (even though i still think it should deal crippling bleed) will be nerfed, and you will be able to knock down allo from trees...

i even hope this is not the pounce that stays, because, fighting multiple target, basically makes pouncing usueless... cause u dont stun the target when dismounting, and you are stunned for a second, open for a stego swing (death), trike knock (death) , rex crush (death)

the pounce mechanic of allo is a complet mess right now, both for allo, and for the target that gets pounced

[native urchin]

i really dont understand the speed nerf..... allo should have been a bit faster and period.....

but dibble is still teh 1vs1 king.... jsut needs back the 36kmh speed to run from rex

[valid robin]

This is true, Cerato can do really well swimming to escape Allos, at least until a croc eats you XD

[keen plover]

Tbf this can be true about any movement state. I can run from an allo!!! until X shows up and helps it!! I've reliably evaded packs of allos by swimming as a small cera.

[valid robin]

Yeah I really hope they rework the mechanic

[valid robin]

It does work, you are correct, but if you are forced to roam the map to try for prime, sometimes you don’t have the option and it’s just lights out

[native urchin]

i dont know if its intended or not.... but actually allo can claw swipe in teh water, which gives it an incredible boost in water too XD

[hallow hinge]

this is the isle u never know what gonna happen i just want this game more balanced

[elfin night]

We know what’s gonna happen

Because the devs tell us and also they listen to suggestions

Tbf though, balance is read by QA

[dusky surge]

i know for a fact they get and listen to balance feedback

[elfin night]

Yeah I’ve seen that happening repeatedly

Especially with common requests that do affect the balance’s health

Like the pseudonerf to cera or the Maia quad stance attack speed buff

[faint robin]

Ig them listening to feedback is the reason rex still has autowin moves vs trike/cera being repeatedly buffed or pin slop being more and more common

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

imagine a small army of 60km/hr juvi rexes who dont grow because they abuse the "dont grow" feature

[indigo rain]

Players would also be able to know that the target they are hunting is hidden near them if they are hiding after escaping

[elfin night]

I WAS GONNA MAKE EXACTLY THAT COMMENT

Or some permanently stuck in prime elder

You know what this reminds me of? The suggestions to stop growing when land deino in spiro was a thing

[dusky surge]

lmao true

genuinely there's only more insentive to mixpack with this lmao

[dusky surge]

yea fr

[slim dragon]

And people trying very hard to make it sound like it had nothing to do with subadult deino being horrendously OP

[dusky surge]

that was hysterical

at the same time was also the insanely OP sub-carno lol, so it was pretty obvious exactly WHO wanted that specific change

[elfin night]

Live branch all over again but this time with faster, heavier and stronger playables

Oh and the extra mutations too

[steep otter]

For the love of god, why do we get old so fasssst?

[slim dragon]

Time flies when you're having fun

[steep otter]

Its way to fast

There are more elders them adults

I feel like i get to enjoy 1 hour of gameplay then boom iam already starting to decline

[leaden remnant]

Guys, i think its imposibile to have a Prime Troodon. You starve very fast, if you dont find diets off spawn you are already infertile, if you dont find food you die of starvation because if you dont find chicken or taco you cant hunt anything else( the boar now chases you and if you are below aprox 20% growth you are dead cause its faster). The Frail elder runs at 31km/h( super slow for a dino who its based on running and jumping). Also when you pounce a deer you instantly get knocked off and deer just kills you.

[viscid mica]

No no I’ve done it it’s just very difficult

Very very difficult

[elfin night]

@tight cove bary is getting something that sounds far more interesting than a pin

And then iirc austro is gonna focus more on kicking than trying to pounce, which makes also total sense considering how tiny its arms are and how we already have 3 pouncers in the game and pounce is genuinely useless and a dumb idea for a semi aquatic

[tight cove]

good

[tawdry meteor]

What is bary getting ?

[elfin night]

A defensive stance I believe

It was mentioned in a devblog a while ago

[tawdry meteor]

Defensive Stance on a >2 Ton Dino Sounds weird to me

[elfin night]

It’s a bary

Bary and spino have pretty high potential to be very defensively geared carnivores due to their long arms and claws, as well as most likely not great competence hunting in land as they are fishers

It may not do much against a giga

But a defensive bary sounds like a pretty discouraging thing for dilo, austro, omni or troodon groups

[slim dragon]

Because it sounds less weird on a small dino ?

[tawdry meteor]

I mean like this in my Head suits to Dinos like stego dibble trike

[slim dragon]

All of which are over 2 tons

[tawdry meteor]

Ye and I Said it doesnt suit a <2 Ton Dino (Ive Made the indicator in the wrong direction my bad )

[slim dragon]

Now that makes it much clearer
I say it shouldn't be about size, bary may be small compared to some, but it's still above 1 ton. That's a giant in the animal kingdom

[tawdry meteor]

Bary was around Same wheight as carno

Look it up

[slim dragon]

Also you don't need to be big to be defensive-geared
Look at hedgehogs

[tawdry meteor]

It wont be over 2 Tons

[slim dragon]

Did you actually read my message ?

[tawdry meteor]

Its Not about defensive geared its about a defensive stance

[tawdry meteor]

You say 1 Ton but make it Sound Like its huge

Its Not big in the isle which we should Look at and not the Overall animals that were existing

Cuz in comparesion to the Isle its overall smaller than the Most which imo makes a defensive Stancd a weird Choice also due to bary itself

I can Imagine a defensive Kit but a Stance like dibble lol

[slim dragon]

It's still big compared to other things in the game
Something doesn't need to tussle with a rex to be defensive
It's all about kit and options
A bary will run from a rex, or pretty much anything too big to handle
But it won't run from carnos, omnis or dilos
In that case a defensive stance helps set it apart as something that can clrealy hold its own against those

[tawdry meteor]

Ye obv but a defensive stance ?

I go with a defensive Kit but stance lol

[slim dragon]

What's wrong about it ?
It's the perfect solution to the "stand your ground and kill attackers" position

Defensive stance doesn't have to mean sparring, or block attacks

It can just be about lowering your movement capacities in exchange for better damage and crowd control

[steep otter]

Tbh i hope bary is larger them cera and carno but smaller them allo

1.8 tons would pe perfect for it imo

Slower them both on land to compensate

[karmic fjord]

when is first allo nerf rolling out this is ridiculous

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

that's literally just taking allo and making it rex

also you remove pounce, but give allo a different form of pin, and then you bring BACK pounce specifically for larger creatures

what exactly changes about the animal

[dusky surge]

bary should not be slower than allo on land at all

bary is a slim, speedy creature both on land and in water

hell, i would be happy if it were faster than cera too

also i'd make it 1.3-1.5 tons, not 1.8

[slim dragon]

Allo... Eating camara ?
Wtf
That feedback is just asking for q buff
Same pounce, but it also gets ambush speed and a knockdown on top of it

[steep otter]

True

I forgot allo is not has fast has cera

39/40km/h should be decent for Bary

[steep otter]

I hope they end up putting on the larger size range, helps him deal with deinos a bit more and steal some kills from land dinos while still being small

1.6-1.8 would be great

[dusky surge]

it likely won't be able to deal with any adult deinos regardless of size unless it was colossally oversized

[elfin night]

Why would allo ever have any tools to deal with (adult) cama bruh

[slim dragon]

carnivore vs herbivore

[elfin night]

It’s not a troodon

[slim dragon]

Still a big game hunter

[faint robin]

1v1 allo should never go vs a cama

[elfin night]

Not even in a group unless the camara is stupid

[slim dragon]

But it's allo
The lion of the jurassic
Lions can 1v1 elephants without breaking a sweat
I'd send a video but it's against the rules

[elfin night]

[faint robin]

You meant young elephants that are barely 6-7 years old?

[slim dragon]

I've seen a lion kill an entire elphant herd alone

[faint robin]

Ah

[elfin night]

I hope I get to see the day where ANKY releases

The carnivore playerbase meltdown will be unreal

[faint robin]

Idk why ppl glaze anky so much

Trike is like 3 times bigger and def better at defending itself irl

[elfin night]

Nah bro

Anky is gonna solo everyone

It needs to be capable of defending itself from pretty much everything due to mobility constraints

So it may as well just break a few legs and jaws and simply walk away while taking minimal damage

[faint robin]

Trike also can't run from all things

So will be camara

Doubt shant will be a good runner as well

[native urchin]

true! anky will be broken for sure xD

[faint quail]

@hallow hinge i genuinely hate that allo is just "big omni" right now. i was so excited for allo to release, being it was my favorite playable on legacy. But ive had to take a break from the game upon seeing its release into HT because it upset me so much.

i want dinos to be unique and fun to play for their own reasons. pounce/pin was cool and novel when omni had it, although id still revise it some. then it was deino, which ill say makes perfect sense, thats what they do. then it was rex, and like realistically sure it would do that, but for game balance its atrocious. and now allo ??

It seems like the dev team is struggling to come up with new and fun ways to play carnivore outside of "big thing kill small thing because heavy". if yall need an idea man, im willing to take the job with benefits \o/

[hallow hinge]

i just played allo and it's not even fun i think they forget this game was beatiful when there is challenge, like 40 min omni vs stego fights or big cera and carno fights but now carno is like braindead ram spam machine like other herbs have knock down and trash skill soo it makes fights so much boring.

[faint quail]

i specifically played this game over PoT because the fights lasted longer and took teamwork and skill. it irks me to no end that, now, fighting is like a 2 minute encounter at best due to the anti-skill mechanics being added

and dont get me wrong, legacy wasnt perfect, but i remember it much more fondly than i do evrima.

[dusky surge]

to be honest, i'm shocked that people are surprised that allo ended up this way, it was pretty apparent from concept art and dev statements that this was its fate

[faint quail]

i had hope, but i know now that it was unfounded. hindsight or something

[hallow hinge]

to be honest i didn't think they would do same thing with raptors

i expected like more like grapple or brawl thing

allo feels so cheap

[dusky surge]

tbh, adding literally the two other main "pin" animals besides omni probably isn't helping with people's dislike for the mechanic

[faint quail]

deino is the only pin dino that i accept. outside that i refuse the idea of the mechanic.

[hallow hinge]

to remove pin from omni devs must change many things

[faint quail]

sure, let omni pounce, but give me counterplay at least. i shouldnt be spending real life hours to grow something, only for me to be told "oh well, you should have played better". how ? how do i play better against something that has no way to avoid ?

[hallow hinge]

hmm there is a catch like herrera oneshot omni easyly

if omni cannot pounce there is like no way to kill herrera as a omni

[faint quail]

i fundamentally disagree with herra too, as much as i love my baby

one shot shouldnt exist in this game.

[hallow hinge]

i agree soo if they wanna delete pin from omni then delete oneshot

or for example i should be faster than galli otherwise he will kick me to death without pin

[faint quail]

im not sure how i would fix it, but i would make sure theres counterplay. if somethings faster than you, you should do more damage than it type of thing.

with the elder system its also starting to feel more like a job than a game to play.

[hallow hinge]

to be honest today's meta pin for raptor necessary

cuz u cant even facetank 300 kilo cera

[faint quail]

i would agree, with the way the game is setup its omni's lifeline

[hallow hinge]

exreamly slow bite speed

[faint quail]

omg the bite speeds in evrima make zero sense

why does omni bite at half the speed of dilo ? it literally forces you to rely on pounce/pin

and now allo bites at the speed of dilo lmao

[hallow hinge]

and pounce is exreamly bad rn for omni

extreamly*

drain all the stam if u cannot kill u will be claped almost every obstcle knock u down

[faint quail]

the few times ive played omni it became boring after like 2 fights.

try to pounce
lag
try to pounce again
miss
sit for stam
die to random herra

[hallow hinge]

its like if u can grapple u can kill if not u will just waste ur stam

i miss old pounce cuz if i deal damage then they just keep running cuz of no bleed

if i do bleed then they will camp somewhere or they will fight and prob i will be dead cuz of stamina gap

[dusky surge]

@analog mirage surely you let galli be faster

if i become elder as galli, i want the one thing i'm known for to be improved

[analog mirage]

The “remain unchanged” and “remain unchanged + buffs” would still have their mobility based buffs

Those are things that I feel can work fine with them

[dusky surge]

ah

carno?? i dont know man

that thing is uh, problematic

[analog mirage]

The only reason I kept Carno’s is because it’s already the fastest thing out there (besides Gali) does its speed increase really change that much

Making it slower wouldn’t entirely fit it either

Maybe just keeping the speed the same

[hasty coyote]

The main issue would just be that prime carnos now can run down adult carnos and gallis much easier. But idk how bad it is on ht since there’s much bigger issues atm lol

[maiden temple]

Elder is such a misleading term for an animal at its peak 😄

All elders should gain something unique for their species, the idea with better jumps/dryo dodge charges is great

Old deinos shouldn't have to eat as often for example, spend that time basking instead

[elfin night]

Because dilo’s ability is reliant on biting, and it doesn’t get many openings to stack the venom

I don’t like dilo as it is now, but that balance choice makes sense

[faint quail]

yeah i mean i understand why it is, i just disagree with it. omni and dilo used to have very similar playtyles so i do like that theyve been separated, but in doing so theyve handicapped omni's ability to defend itself without exerting a decent chunk of stamina, which i dont think is good.

[faint quail]

this is so much more in line with what i feel the elder system should be. i really dislike the broad stat changes, when thats what dinos rely on for their matchups.

at first i thought it was just a model change which was exciting, then i heard more about the stat changes and peoples recounting of how thats affected the game and it just... isnt exciting. they could have been so much more imaginative with it and made there be a purpose to becoming elder outside of getting stat buffs for a period until they decay to unacceptable levels. it forces you into playing the game the way they want you to. the way the devs think the game should be played. if ive learned anything from gaming for over 10 years, its the communities always play the game in unintended ways, and a lot of the time it can improve upon the game if the game devs can listen.

[hallow hinge]

bro omni has one of the slowest bite rate, and its very vulnerable can't even kill juvi cera or carno without taking serious damage. It must be improved or maybe even bleed dmg too cuz as a omni player i dont want to stick with pounce system.

[maiden temple]

Older animals aren't just getting ready to die, some fish were observed to lay more eggs compared to younger ones in their habitats, and birds providing better food for their chicks and so on. Aging should be fun too, the focus should just shift away from purely pvp as they simply can't compete with adults in their prime.

Forcing you to entomb because your playable cannot get away from any danger at all is just.. meh. Some stat falloff is expected, the playable is old, but you shouldn't be this pathetic and rely on sitting in bushes with nothing else to do until you hit 100% and can click that entomb button

*I was also disappointed with how it was implemented

[maiden temple]

It should have a better bleed on that slow bite, it would help in situations where people camp water/walls. Still takes a ton of effort to land the bites but at least it's worth taking that risk lol

[steep otter]

We are getting old way to fast

Especialy non apexes

You barely get to enjoy being a adult

There is just frail elders everywhere

[viscid mica]

They need to change how prime works for tiny tiers

It’s stupid hard to achieve and you can’t even maintain it

Let alone the fact that even if you get it it’s gone 8 mins later and your slower than most large tiers

[maiden temple]

That fast aging saved me on frail dryo, it was so awful sitting in a bush. I'm glad I didn't have to do it for longer

It slows down so much I could not escape much at all, that's on top of having 130ish HP

I can't imagine other frail elders, especially big

Though it's much easier to achieve prime on bigger herbis

You have time to travel

[viscid mica]

They need to stop touching speed

It’s so game breaking it’s not even funny how unenjoyable the last 10% of everything is

[maiden temple]

Yeah..

[warm flax]

sit for most of the time because you know you can't out run or fight everything trying to kill you
finally reach its peak but can't find other players cause they are all hiding or simply the server or the area isn't that populated
dies to cheater with ESP or some random pack because you reach the frail stage

[digital vine]

Hey guys, I would like to hear your opinion. Do you think maia should be able to knock cera and allo's down in a easier way? I was thinking maia is a medium/big herbivore. But it feels like it does less dmg than a tenonto. Like I wound't mind if it was slower if it does a decent dmg. I mean It has 3.75 -5.4 tons. its kicks should be dealing more dmg

[maiden temple]

It's very tanky and very fast so you'll need to keep that in mind when talking damage. It cannot have it all

I'd like it to be stronger but then I remember how fast it is and that it can cc with a frontal attack making it a perfect chase down hunter in that speed bracket xD

I'd be fine having stronger rear attacks! It takes really good timing to land these, especially the back kick

[viscid mica]

Maia is base mid but can reach to large via prime

The only problem is as she said above if it has ease of knock and damage but also being as fast as it is it would be extremely op as it was in its HT

She also has a very good point on the back kicks

Their hitbox is questionable

@soft mantle I’ve personally not noticed the thirst issue yet I don’t think it’s that low? Certainly can see it being lower than most but I don’t see it that low unless it got bugged during allo patch

[soft mantle]

I was still juvi and It literally was 1 min from full Hp to dead

[viscid mica]

OH I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED

So there’s a bug where Dino’s aren’t healing as they grow and they buffed Rex early grow rate to be more competitive

So your growing taking damage and thrust is dropping rapidly due to growing

This reducing its already pretty slow thirst to abysmally low

[sullen dragon]

@viscid mica Rex dies in 1 minute after dehydrating, other animals usually take 5-10 minutes to die. That’s the issue he’s talking about

[viscid mica]

Yes and it’s a bug

Not intended

[sullen dragon]

Was it confirmed by a dev

[viscid mica]

Was allo phasing through objects?

No because devs don’t confirm all bugs

Especially newly reported ones

[hasty coyote]

I prefer the high speed low damage Maia we have now. If it’s just big, slow, knocks down, and bullies what it knocks down, it’s just another Diablo. Current Maia is unique because its combat capabilities aren’t the best, but it’s exceptionally fast for its size. Which is a niche we don’t really have at that size range other than Maia. Even then, Maias are still terrifying in the right hands due to their speed, hp, and cc.

[digital vine]

I see I understand y'all point of view

[waxen oxide]

@hasty coyote Well said brother. CC is oversaturated in the game right now, and it is taking away from the thrill of gameplay. Part of the run is using tactic, strategy, and timing to wear out or punish prey and predator alike. When you throw too much CC into the mix, that fun is taken away. Instead, it's a battle of 'who stuns first'. When you're on the ground in a stunlock, or pin, a kick or a grapple, you ARE NOT playing. Dying while you are literally unable to fight back is very demotivating and kills any thrill of the hunt for both hunter and hunted.

[haughty grotto]

@waxen oxide I wish you were correct
Sadly ppl have been complaining about omni pin since years as well

The hard truth ya'll don't want to hear is that if you take away cc such as pins or knockdowns, you're further reducing an already abysmal hunting success rate.

Think about what youre saying. You want reaction time to escape? You say a fair death is one you are outskilled in but there is no such thing. If you meet someone better or stronger you want to be able to escape. If they're a similar weight class you want it to be a bite fest. You want to never die? Nobody will let themselves die if you don't have abilities that SECURE kills.

[hasty coyote]

thank you, many matchups currently feel more like turn based combat or just insta death rather than actual fights lol

[haughty grotto]

I think removal is not the solution. Having consequences is the solution.
Make cc abilities cost a lot. Not spammable, not long lasting.

You can't bite a trike to death.
You can't reach a galli to bite it in the first place.

You NEED pin to overcome half the roster in this game otherwise nobody ever dies.
It's a real threat, one that should be met with a new cautious mentality that promotes situational awareness, not a cry for removal.

That's all I'ma say about pin

[hasty coyote]

First off, you don't have to remove them entirely, I generally hard disagree with removing all cc, there are times where its necessary. HOWEVER, it does not always need to be so 100% instant death for such a small cost.

For instance, Rex stops moving then can't crush for a few seconds after a miss, thats a good cost for the miss. However, the hit is just death the moment it pins, which in many cases it doesnt need to be. Stuff like cera should def die to a crush pin, no doubts about it, but for the species that literally can't move faster than the rex, I don't think its fair to punish them equally if not more so than smaller species. I will prob refine this more when I do post it, but for rex, I recommend making its crush pin only last a limited time, and in that time it should body fracture and deal just slightly less damage than the hp of smallest dino it is faster than. So currently, it would do like 2900 damage (since diablo is slower) and guarantee body fracture if its held for the full duration on anything it can actually pin. The damage could be made higher if it ends up being too little or if diablo's speed gets buffed, but I think that works. So if you have the ability to easily escape, you insta die. If you lack the ability to easily escape, you are given a chance to get away but have a heavy handicap. Similar things could be done for omni and allo pins but instead use bleed as a limiter for how far the prey can get.

[haughty grotto]

This game, at least from what I understand it, was never ever meant to be a balanced pvp affair.
There are good matchups and bad matchups for everything.
The goal of a predator,as in real life, IS to subdue and secure the kill with minimal damage taken, not to kill and barely survive afterwards. Animals pin in groups for a reason.

With the additional of allo and rex pins, we now got the one thing that can actually break the ridiculous wall of invincible heavyweight herbis walking around fearlessly on the map oneshotting everything. Something which has been plaguing the game since years.

There is no going back. Even now, those herbis still have the advantage and can kill allos and rexes in seconds.
All that needs to change is NEW situational awareness to account for the new threat.

[hasty coyote]

I understand that sentiment, but both sides are genuinely just making the game unfun for each other. You either pin the target, or you get stunlocked. neither of which are fun. So if you change one, you have to change both, which is exactly what I want. I want both sides to be slightly more approachable in closer conditions. Omni walking up to a trike? yeah nah that thing is getting flung and mauled. Pachy unaware of a rex? yeeted to the respawn screen. But if an allo sees a cera, that cera shouldnt die because the allo was a bit bigger and pressed 1 button. Neither should diablo be able to 1 combo a carno to death after hitting a knockdown from a 0 stam cost spammable ability.

[haughty grotto]

I hear ya
As long as there's a balance
But sadly since all these years we haven't seen herbi abilities toned down, the one sided outcry for the new carni abilities seems very conveniently hypocritical

You remove those pins, you're putting rex and allo into the same category as cera. Putting big herbis out of reach

[haughty grotto]

The game has always encouraged dying and regrowing.
The frail system is a perfect example of that.
Losing hours of growth is never given any weightage or sympathy, from what I've seen.
Which is probably why we have the combat system the way it is: super high risk high reward. You either kill fast or get killed fast, even if you're big.

To be honest I prefer it this way. It gives adrenaline spikes to both sides and makes you think twice. Rather than turning every battle into a prolonged bite fest where the attacker isn't worried cause they can un-comit any time and the defender isn't worried cause they can escape / not have their death secured.

[hasty coyote]

Again, I can understand that to an extent, but at the same time it just makes the game less fun for everyone if ALL fights are just like a 2 second cutscene of you killing someone or someone killing you. There should be cutscene fights, and there should be longer fights.

[haughty grotto]

I just think nobody would ever die if you have long dragged out fights which have no way to secure and finish things.
If the game is balanced such that disengagement or escape is always possible, you'd just end the fight without death by retreating or watching your opponent retreat.

[crimson crater]

@steep echo it’s equal no? but yeah, hypsi could use some better resistance

[waxen oxide]

You're right in saying that no one will let themselves die, and I commend you for taking consideration of the hunting success rate and acknowledging that it is already so low. However, I don't think lessening or at least reducing the abundance of CC attacks and duration would lead to a lower success rate on hunts. If anything, it would bring back skill expression and the adrenaline rush of a real battle, something both herbis and carnis want. Yes, there need to be means to confirm kills. But losing 40min of progress because you got pinned by a few coordinated players on Omni, is not the same as losing 4 HOURS or growth because another player hit right click while facing you. Omni pin is a necessary evil because OMNI itself is so weak. It's a CC done right, it requires conditions being met that require time and patience. ALLO and REX pin is not needed at all, these dinos are powerful on their own and a heavy cc lock like PIN is unhealthy for player experience on both sides.

[crimson crater]

there’s a thing called a middle ground, justifying pin because of low hunting success rates is essentially just taking things from one end of the spectrum to the other, we don’t have to guarantee things a win if they merely click 1 button with little to no drawbacks and limitations. omni isn’t a necessary evil, it isn’t weak, the things it can kill with pin it is more than capable of killing with its above average agility and bite damage, it’s very equipped for combat but pin just serves to make things easier for no reason. small tiers usually take an hour and more to grow not 40 minutes so it’s still a slap in the face and disregards player investment

[elfin night]

Actually not at all

It got massively increased after hypsi for the climbing

But Herrera easily has like twice as much fall resistance

Also, speaking of cc variety

I actually had an idea a while ago that I could bump again this time in the balance chat instead of the general one

Of maybe allo young it’s pounce to partially restrain people and causing them movement or even alt attacks in a certain direction to be slower, as if the allo was pulling from the opposite direction and therefore they get higher value from having one pouncer and one biter as opposed to try and pin something down together

And also higher value in smaller groups

Creating openings with large, defensive prey that makes it easier for a comparatively smaller carnivore to dive in and get some hits in despite being so large and slow

[hasty coyote]

you're misunderstanding or misrepresenting my point. I'm not saying "make all fights just pillow fights" I'm saying we should limit the "you don't get to play anymore" abilities. Like omni's group grapple is a good example of a kill switch thats actually reasonably balanced. You either have to get the target low on hp or stam or get enough omnis on at the same time. Both of which the target can try to prevent and the omnis can try to make happen. All the while, they are still progressing the hunt and killing the target. Its not just instant death or never die.

[haughty grotto]

But in allos case, the 1v1 pin has a 65% weight requirement
If you're that much smaller than allo you are surely not in its weight category nor speed category and should be easily able to run

[golden coral]

I'm a little confused on your point here Esbi. You claim pins and stuff are neccesary, yet the absolute majority of the games history would prove you wrong, no? You can and do get kills, or escapes, or whatever else, without pins and grapples existing. We've literally had most of the game without these things, and yet people hunted and killed each other perfectly fine anyway?

[haughty grotto]

Are you talking about legacy?
The combat there was a horrid, repetitive and bland tailriding bitefest

[golden coral]

Progression, Legacy, Early Evrima (Omni did not always have grapple, we didn't even have CC for teno back in early Evrima)

And people seem to ignore that alt turn was a thing, it wasn't as much tailriding after that was introduced

But the point still stands, even in Evrima, we didn't start with CC and grapple, pounce/pin yes, but that was for omni vs omni at that point, and it did make said omni vs omni rather much a land pin or die.

[haughty grotto]

Im talking about evrima.
How is evrimas history proving me wrong? It's supporting what i have said.
People have not been hunting fine. Big herbis have been immune. And those are precisely the ones complaining rn about "losing hours of growth" after they oneshotted hours of growth for everyone else all these years.

[golden coral]

So I'm not sure why we'd need it now, omni did not need grapple, nor would rex or allo need pin

[golden coral]

No,they have been hunting fine, if you properly hunt, not fight

Omni was doing fine before grapple, and pin was never really a fun mechanic, even when the only other target was other omnis

[haughty grotto]

I very strongly disagree.
I don't know what you mean by properly
Properly as in, heavily outnumber them and have perfect coordination every time?
That's a fantasy

I have played hundreds of hours and I've seen it for myself. There is an abysmally low hunting success rate since forever

[golden coral]

Properly, as in, hunt things you can kill quickly and efficiently

Instead of trying for an epic fight

[haughty grotto]

So basically, tiny critters

That's never been part of the discussion. Tiny critters have nothing to do with allo and rex

[haughty grotto]

We are talking about big herbis complaining about losing hours of growth to allos and rexes. That is the topic.
No epic fight, nothing.

[golden coral]

I'm merely questioning your argument that pin/grapple and similar is needed for hunting and securing kills

No, that might be the rest of the topic, I'm simply questioning that part of your argument

[haughty grotto]

It is impossible to kill a trike without pin or crush. Impossible. Not one person can do it, unless the trike is a first timer

[golden coral]

You made the claim that pins/grapple is needed, which I can't see, because surely you could design and do things a bit different, rather than the "cut scene" kill that crush provides

Hence, I do not agree that rex needs crush, or omni needs grapple, or allo needing something similar, because there are other playables in game that hunts, or defends, in other ways, and that seems to work out well enough

[haughty grotto]

Yes pin and grapple is needed, so that big herbis have an actual threat.

You are extrapolating 'other playables have this and that and have no problem' to these large playables which is not applicable.
So you can disagree if you want. But you're comparing apples to oranges.

[golden coral]

So, there's no other way to design rex, or allo, to be successful without pin/grapple?

[haughty grotto]

And again, no, none of those playables can hunt a large herbivore

[haughty grotto]

Personally nope I don't think so.
There's no concept of securing a kill and ending a fight with a large tier heavyweight dinosaur unless you have a mechanism like this.
But if you come up with something, please let us all know lol

[hoary radish]

#tactile for carni

[golden coral]

Well, that'd be because they have otherwise lower stats, they're not large critters. But if cera was a rex sized critter, or dilo was an allo sized critter, it wouldn't work then to hunt a stego or a trike, in another manner than grapple/pin?

[golden coral]

Oh I've got plenty of ideas and various changes I'd do, but we don't have the devkit and mods yet, so you'll have to wait

And maybe they won't work out, in which case I'm sure you'll tell me "I told you so"

[haughty grotto]

No it would not.
Cause those herbis can oneshot or twoshot the rexes and allos unless they are pinned and rendered unable to act.

A rex right now cannot face a trike. Even with its crush and pin, it can't.
Because herbis inherently are stronger, more defensive.

Unless you subdue them, you cannot kill a large herbi. It's not possible

[golden coral]

You can knockdown a stego with a headbutt as rex, can you not? You can bonebreak and render a trike "defenseless" can you not? Do you need those abilities on a crush, or just an attack?

[hoary radish]

In my opinion, the trike is very poorly balanced, and it's also riddled with hitbox problems.

[golden coral]

I'm not questioning that you need to overpower the prey, and that it can be difficult, just that you don't need it via a single click "pin" that isn't very engaging, is a one-step more or less, and isn't very fun for the target either

[haughty grotto]

A stego is way smaller than a fg rex. Not a fully fair comparison.
But most rexes aren't fg.
A subadult rex or allo, aka the mid tier carnivores, rely on abilities that allow them to actually survive and not be hit back, because all it will take it one hit to get wrecked

[golden coral]

Hence, I disagree with the claim that you need a "cut scene" crush to render a trike weak and vunerable, not that you need to render it weak and vunerable

[steep echo]

I tested it (as best you can without a real measuring tool) and herra survived the same drop with orange health. Hypsi died

[haughty grotto]

A single click pin doesn't exist against large herbis.
You need a multiple coordinated grapple, or you gotta be a prime rex

[steep echo]

Even if I just screwed up the test, I don't think it should even be close

[hoary radish]

A T-Rex runs at 27 km/h at 100% speed.
Don't you think it's fair that it would only catch prey smaller than itself if it could get close?

[golden coral]

None the less, you can knock it, while I don't know how large the weight differences need to be (and they seem to be variable, considering diablo could at one point knock over stegos), you do have options. I'd like to see those options used as well.

[golden coral]

So, if you need multiple crushes, and one doesn't immediately turn the target defenseless, why is there an argument of it being needed or not then? You do one, then the herbi is now aware of you and can defend itself?

Or is the issue then that there's no stopping it, like if you get hit before you land the crush, because if so, that could be an option to add

Or why would there be complaints of crush and similar, if you can still fight back after the first and even second one, why would the herbis complain, if they have the option to turn it around

[faint robin]

Ah yes the mythical thrash on trike doing crazy dmg yet impossible to land on a good rex

[slim dragon]

The herbis aren't the only ones to complain...

[haughty grotto]

I'm a bit confused now.
You're all over the place.

We're talking about the primary complaint for large playables that "omg I have no counterplay and have to watch myself die" which previously didn't exist cause they were literally immune to the entire roster.

You are narrowing down on a very specific circumstance of a fg rex fighting with crush.

[faint robin]

Because 3-4 crushes are very easy to land on a trike which basically kills it since fracture=death

[faint robin]

Because noone like autowin moves. Trike has none, so do stego
Both rex and allo can pin and rex can also fracture which make target's gameplay very uninteractive and unfun

[hasty coyote]

You can run, but I don't think means you NEED to 1-tap them. Even just pinning a cera for like a second or 2 will do a massive chunk of their hp and enough bleed to kill them if they keep running for long, it doesn't need to flat out 1-shot.

[faint robin]

Pin slop is the worst can happen to evrima tbh

[hoary radish]

If carnivores had tactile mutation, the problems would end.

A T-Rex can only run for 20 seconds.

[hasty coyote]

to be fair, trike spar locking a rex by spamming the heavy is kinda an auto win, but thats more of a sparing bug/issue

[hoary radish]

Moving and attacking is terrible right now.

[faint robin]

Carnivores are generally faster and have more faster/more mobile attacks

[haughty grotto]

I think you need the messages above.
Being able to oneshot or twoshot something with a knockdown is the same thing.
It's been there since years.
But now you complain cause the other side has it too.

Why is the game now suddenly 'uninteractive'? I strongly disagree. It's been very uninteractive for large herbis since years cause they could walk fearlessly immune to everything else.
Kf anything it's more interactive, because now there is a real threat in the form of rex and allo.

[hasty coyote]

I don't think that helps anyone. I would prefer if tactile was just gone entirely so no one had to deal with it.

[hoary radish]

If you remove the pin or even the broken legs, it's best to delete the dinosaur.

[faint robin]

It seems like a bug tho
But good rex won't even get spar locked

[hoary radish]

You're only looking at yourselves, that's the truth.

[golden coral]

Okay, so. I'll try and be a bit easier to understand.

One, I disagree with the argument that pins/grapples are needed, there are other alternatives and methods to hunt and attack that would work, as prior versions and even current shows. You might consider those situations to be too different, I do not, since it's still combat, and can be adjusted with stats and such where neccesary (for the issue of being one-shot or similar).

Two, from what I've understood, the reason people complain about crush/pin and all of that is because it tends to be a oneshot. You get pounced/pinned, you're dead with nothing you can do but "wait". You get crushed, same thing. If you're saying now that it requires multiple crushes, then I'm confused as to why a trike or stego, after having been ambushed and crushed once, can't then properly fight back and/or escape, and thus having the rex in this case having to follow up properly.

If people complain that it's a "cut scene death" and you're just sitting there, well, if you need multiple crushes to end there, aren't there openings to fight back? Or do you just get to crush and repeat before the target can even react?

[slim dragon]

If carnivores had tactile mutation, the problems would double

[hoary radish]

Trike doesn't use any resources to attack and even gains stamina when it takes damage, so it doesn't make sense for you to be complaining when you have plenty.

[faint robin]

Erm no? The real autowin knockdown born with trike which is not there for years. And trike is so damn slow you really dealt with that very rarely. Now we have fast autowinning carnis.

[faint robin]

Trike sucks to rex rn

[hoary radish]

how it is?

[hasty coyote]

You don't have to remove the pin, or even fracture. They just need to not be immediate death sentences unless the target is already definitely dead. Like make the pin only last a portion of the time unless the target was weak at the start of the pin, or make the fracture a body fracture instead. Or finally nerf leg fracture to not just diable 70% of most dino's kits

[golden coral]

They were not immune, now you're the one exaggerating massively. Second, yes, if the issue is that there is no counterplay/nothing you can do but sit and watch, that's bad, and isn't neccesary, from what I can tell of the entire history of the game, Evrima included, and all playables we've had, with how they work.

If the complaint is "I die in one hit from a cut scene death", then there is an issue I would say. If you require multiple such hits, with engagement and fight between, with the ability to counter and avoid ending up with the cutscene death, then I see no such issue.

[hoary radish]

rex have 20 sec of running stamina

I want to see you control that during the fight.

[faint robin]

Turns worse, attacks slower
Rex needs to land 3-4 crushes, trike is crippled and dead

[hasty coyote]

and both of those are equally issues.

[hasty coyote]

20 secs of ambush running, 30 of regular sprint

[hoary radish]

If you find a T-Rex and let it touch you, even though it's a small dinosaur, you're playing wrong.

[faint robin]

Rex basically circles around trike like a big cera

[haughty grotto]

1. I guess we can agree to disagree. I don't think you can bring other smaller dinos and how they play, with some stat adjustments, to the table with big dinos. Different ball game. Variety of abilities is a good thing

2. Totally agree with you about rex. After the nerfs, it's really not a problem anymore. With allo, it has a 65% solo pin requirement which means the prey definitely was fast enough to escape. In groups, it risks being oneshotted by the large herbis as the allo group tries to coordinate a grapple. A fair gamble and trade imo.

[golden coral]

To be fair, if the rex killed the stego by knockdown + crush bite into it's face, it'd probably feel better, rather than rex running up on stego from any direction, crushing and just standing there while the stego slowly watches itself die.

[hoary radish]

That is, if the leg is broken.

[faint robin]

Rex is a problem
Cripples trike through head in 3 attacks
And can still pin same sized animals

[faint robin]

Nah, trike overall turns way way worse

[hoary radish]

he cant

[haughty grotto]

It can absolutely not pin same sized animals. That is not factually true since several weeks now.

And yes sure rex can cripple but why is the trike just watching? It can wreck the rex just as bad in the meantime.
Overall still in favor of trike (which I agree with btw, trike should have the upper hand)

[hoary radish]

ofc, You're basically saying that the trike should be superior in everything.

You're only looking at your dinosaur.

[faint robin]

Trike should be superior in failed ambush scenario

[hoary radish]

And where does an ambush scenario currently exist?

[faint robin]

If rex failed to ambush it - fight goes in trike favor

[hasty coyote]

yeah, and you should be punished. Anything faster than rex should just die, but anything slower than ambush should be given a chance. Since diablo is the smallest thing an ambushing rex can still catch, we can use it for a base line. If rex is pinning purely on weight, it should deal just enough to not kill the diablo before letting go, like around 2500 to 2900. However, the diablo also receives a body fracture, so it can't run for long. Meaning that a persistent rex can catch back up unless the diablo is able to escape.

[faint robin]

Erm what? Rex moves w no sounds while crouching and trike can't see at night.

[faint robin]

It can, search for vid above of prime rex pinning prime trike 2 times

[haughty grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yybJ-sAFE0

And this is how broken your dinos attack hitbox is btw

[haughty grotto]

The trike must have been low stam/hp/bleed. Then the threshold goes down

[faint robin]

Whole different issue+desync
Cuz it doesn't land like this normally.

[golden coral]

Fair enough. I honestly don't see the issue, since you get stat scaling on both sides. Omni vs pachy are similar sized. Trike is massive, but so is rex. But I might also expect other things even from the rest of our larger playables (though Acro might point towards you being right, what with that ability, at least from concept). Still, it would be more interesting with more, teno-style combat I guess is what I would like. Different attacks for different purposes and targets, and "combos", rather than the one attack. I would like that for omni too, to be honest, I do not like that it's just pounce as the "only" attack.

Just going to point out, I'm not up to date with any buffs or nerfs, or stats, since I can't play currently, too bad laptop. I'm not arguing from any "this is currently fine" or opposite, I'm arguing the point itself. Neccesity of pin/grapple or not. Or how it currently plays out in game, and since you told me there's multiple crushes required for a kill, as an example then with rex, I don't really see why there'd be a complaint unless the first crush renders you entirely incapable of doing anything anyway, so you're just standing there while the rex loads up another crush.

[hoary radish]

broApproaching the trike from behind won't change anything currently; it simply repositions itself and the fight continues. You can no longer throw it to the ground to death, so don't say that ambushes exist nowadays, because they don't.

[faint robin]

Desync is not only related to trike btw
It's carno shooting charge thing too

[hoary radish]

nah, not is

same server and low ping

and this happen 3 times in the fight

[faint robin]

Rn rex goes around trike in every scenario, spams crush and wins

[hasty coyote]

heres the issue I'm seeing: yall point out 1 side being broken as an excuse for the other side being broken. BOTH sides are broken and have issues, and BOTH should be fixed. We can't just remove half the kit of one dino and expect the other to be left with their "turn off" abilities as well. Both need adjustments to move their power budget away from turning off the opponent and to actually just fighting the opponent.

[faint robin]

Cuz no matter how low crush dmg is, it basically disables trike and is spammable. 3 hits - trike is dead
And in no way rex should pin same sized trike

[hoary radish]

Actually no, if you don't just inflict mutation damage on your rex, you're not able to kill it, and if you encounter the allo currently you might bleed to death by them. The rex hasn't been king on the Isle for a while.

If the trike goes towards the rock and you only have vision of its head, Rex loses stamina and takes damage when pinning the trike's head.

[golden coral]

Anyway, time to go do something else. With that said, buff stego. We need full sized/powered 8T stego with retaliatory bucking so pouncing/pinning/grappling a stego is a no go.

[faint robin]

Rex dominated and still dominates legacy
And trike is literally meant to stand against rex. Not being circled by big cera clone with fracture and pin slop to autowin after 3 hits

[hoary radish]

I believe there can still be a middle ground between the two dinosaurs; currently, there's nothing that can kill the trike right now.

[faint robin]

Rex

[hoary radish]

It's not like that currently

[haughty grotto]

I already agreed with this
But nobody has ever called for herbis being toned down all these years. And nor will it happen.
Now that there's some level of a broken threat from the carni side everyone's losing their minds.
So ya'll can't call for one side to be nerfed only

[faint robin]

Of trike spotted rex - ofc it should have way higher chances of winning
Rex is an ambush predator, it has no business in just walking to a trike and crush spamming it to death

[faint robin]

Herbis were nerfed since trike now can't cc rex
So was the slide nerfed

[haughty grotto]

Idk what trikes you playing with but a trike wins this encounter 9 times out of 10

[hoary radish]

It makes no sense to complain about Rex's pin; he can barely chase his prey. Without it, he'd starve to death. Besides, killing a Trike is already nearly impossible; imagine without the pin.

[faint robin]

1 missed thrash which is damn easy to fumble (thx to trash controls) and trike is cooked

[haughty grotto]

Don't show me a random video of one rex winning as proof that rex is stronger
It isn't, trike has the upper hand, which tbh I agree with. But it doesn't need further adjustments. Let it stay as is. Don't call for removal of rex's pin.

And btw u say 1 missed thrash, I say 1 missed crush is death of the rex too

[faint robin]

Rex doesn't need pin nor fracture at least in number of crushes this low to fight a trike

[hoary radish]

The only ambush scenario I see is surprising the trike and breaking its leg with the first hit; that's the only real "ambush" scenario.

I believe a cooldown on the trike's double-click would be useful.

like rex pin

and consume stamina

[faint robin]

Rex shouldn't pin trike. As well as it shouldn't fracture it
Ambush scenario is rex getting behind trike and staying there till trike is dead which happens but w out ambush rn
Rex has the tools to do so, it runs circles around trike like cera

[hasty coyote]

Hence why I'm arguing for a global cc reduction

[faint robin]

Trike thrash shouldn't even be double click for how much ppl fumble it and missclick
Its just a poor control decision for such a defining factor move

[haughty grotto]

Then you change trikes win rate from 90% to 100%
No thanks

[faint robin]

If rex gets behind trike - it stays there
Hence why it should need to ambush trike to kill it

Rn trikes mostly die to rexes, not vise versa lol

[hoary radish]

That's why it's called mechanics.

[faint robin]

Trike is also way worse than rex while young

[hoary radish]

You see, you want your dinosaur to be superior in everything: mobility, damage, and even the controls to operate it.

[haughty grotto]

I mean that will always be the case. Not much else can kill a trike, so it'll pretty much always be a big rex or a large allo pack.
But, in these deaths, it will also have killed many rexes as well. It's not rex domination.

[faint robin]

Its just a bad controls
Ofc double click is gonna be easy to missclick
All playables should be comfortable to operate as.

[hoary radish]

In reality, the trike's turning radius is faster, always 1.2 tons faster than the Rex.

In Rex, if you turn the mouse more than 15 degrees and hold the pin, nothing happens; it's part of the game, the player needs to learn.

[faint robin]

Trike is slower than rex, turns worse, attacks slower which basically seals its fate in a fight

[hoary radish]

That's why it's recommended for groups.

4 trikes are practically untouchable.

[faint robin]

Playables are not balanced around groups.

[hoary radish]

At least Rex needs to have some kind of advantage at some point.

After all, it's a T-Rex.

[fluid pond]

Harlow, I already discussed this with them and they won't understand. They even told me that a Shant should one-shot a Rex and that the Rex should never be able to hunt it.

[hoary radish]

I just believe there's still room for improvement in this matchup.

[faint robin]

Way quieter, sees better at night, has murder sprint, turns better, way faster alt attacks.
Rex shouldn't have autowin moves vs a slower playables

[faint robin]

Aaand? Triceratops evolved to counter it

[hoary radish]

There's definitely no better attack, not against the trike.

Trike doesn't even use stamina when using its attacks, man.

[faint robin]

Rex attacks faster while also having fracture (autowin) and pin (autowin)

[golden coral]

Sounds like that'd fit better for anky, being the untouchable thing to pretty much everything

[hoary radish]

Like I said, you're only seeing your side of things, anyway.
I better go.

[faint robin]

Shant should oneshot rex just for the sake of rex feeling what its doing vs a trike rn 🙂

[hoary radish]

look this guys, wtf

[faint robin]

"Noooo this big cow autowon me how dares it!!!"
Sweet tears of rex glazers

[hoary radish]

You must be playing with your monitor turned off.

[fluid pond]

Look, a T-Rex vs. Trike fight should be 100% even. If the Trike uses the environment to its advantage, it becomes a 60/40 advantage, but if the Trike doesn't take advantage of its environment, it's 50/50. And if the Trike is in an open area, it should be 60/40 in favor of the T-Rex. The Trike's broken hitbox makes no sense. Harlow is right, the T-Rex should have an advantage in certain environments. If a Trike is slow, it should take advantage of its environment, not just justify it by saying the T-Rex shouldn't be able to hunt it so easily because it's slow. A Trike also needs skill and intelligence when fighting a T-Rex, because it's not just any old T-Rex. It seems absurd to say the T-Rex shouldn't have an advantage at any point when the game is about taking advantage of everything the game gives you and trying to gain the maximum advantage over your opponent.

[faint robin]

Rex glazers always ruin dino games
"But it's a rex" is not an argument for your favourite theropod to be blatantly overpowered and break game's balance

[golden coral]

Is trike really in that bad of a spot? It should have the advantage over rex, even being ambushed should only give rex a little bit of an advantage.

[fluid pond]

You lack skill if you're always getting killed by the T-Rexes; the T-Rex is currently at its best.

[golden coral]

No, trike should have the advantage, terrain or otherwise. A rex facing a trike in the open should not be at an advantage, since it didn't get an ambush. If it did get an ambush, that should give it a bit of an advantage, but not much.

[hoary radish]

Besides all that, in most of my 100% fights I never had enough damage to kill the trike, and I ALWAYS run out of stamina while it just keeps winning due to the mutation. (100% grow)

[faint robin]

Trike vs rex is nothing like a 50/50
If trike faces rex is no way rex could kill it irl

Ppl really underestimate 3 horns and a frill going against no armor body of a rex

[golden coral]

Not that IRl matters, in the slighest, so that's irrelevant

[faint robin]

Rex mains always say "but its rex, THE KING OF DINOS"

[golden coral]

It's more so that carnis should overall have the harder time, and you'd want to encourage proper hunting, rather than just going up to something and fighting it

[faint robin]

Im all for game having good balance
Not rex decimating all others just because yk its rex

[hoary radish]

I believe the same adjustments made to the Rex should be applied to the Trike, starting with a cooldown on the double attack.

[golden coral]

But nor should trike be invincible then, it should not really want to engage a rex, even if it's built for it

[faint robin]

Thrash should be changed control wise to be more controllable

[hoary radish]

and it should only go forward, locking the trike's head.

avoiding hitbox problems

[faint robin]

Yeah, rex should ambush it
Not go in front of it then run circles around

[faint robin]

Rn it locks trike's head
HT overall has a very poor performance so outside of bad hitbox its also desync

[hoary radish]

You know this is a game, right? How are you going to implement ambushes without gameplay mechanics?

Don't you think it's right for the rex to be looking for your back?

[faint robin]

Murder sprint, quiet crouch
Man.

[hoary radish]

Don't you think it's fair that Rex has more mobility than you?

You simply don't want to die.

[golden coral]

Agreed, ambush should be the favoured approach, and it should give rex the advantage. Running around the rex just sounds both silly, and shouldn't work. Instead the spar should be able to go both ways, if it can't already. So a good rex could take a trike head on, outmanuever it with spar, and then crush it. But if it fails, then the rex gets knocked down and can now be thrashed for all that damage.

[faint robin]

Rn rex is very good at ambushing
And it's the only way it should have advantage vs trike

[slim dragon]

The gameplay mechanic is being able to take cover and stay out of your opponent's field of you
That's what an ambush fundamentally is
It doesn't require mechanics

[golden coral]

You.... hide somewhere, wait until target gets close, then run up to them?

[hoary radish]

and after that?

[golden coral]

As all of the Isle history would show, throughout progression, survival, legacy and Evrima. But somehow ambush requires a mechanic I guess.

[hoary radish]

agaist a trike in the scenario

[faint robin]

After that you stay behind trike due to its poor turning

[golden coral]

You... attack? You do a crush, headbutt, whatever attack you have that you're meant to use vs the target

Presumably this should inflict sufficient damage or otherwise vunerability on the target, that you can now continue to follow up with your attacks and finish it off

[hoary radish]

Of course, if I have the advantage, I'll stay hidden until I get a clean pin, but after the first pin should I move away and try to ambush him again?

[faint robin]

After fracture trike basically can't attack

And can't enter spar to turn good

[hoary radish]

Trikes can already turn on their own axis, and you don't think it's fair that the Rex should have mobility?

dammmnn you guys are hard to talk

[faint robin]

Rex surely should have better mobility
It just shouldn't have autowin vs same sized opponent

Cuz yk trike doesn't autowin vs rex

[golden coral]

No, if you do get that clean ambush, what you managed to inflict should give you the advantage. Let's say if you pull of that ambush, you now break the trikes leg, now it can't turn as well, and while it can still keep up, you can now get around it and get more hits in (not neccesarily a crush, but bite or something), or in case of a giga, bleed for example. I do think if you manage to pull the ambush, you should very much have an advantage. With that said, it's a trike, it should still be dangerous and you should still be careful, but you should be able to follow up with something to take it down properly.

[hoary radish]

You're not playing a game to say that.

[golden coral]

If we had fracture severities, that would be one way to do it I'd say

[hoary radish]

But nowadays, the T-Rex tires very quickly and practically loses all its stamina just searching for its back.

[faint robin]

The thing is, rex shouldn't pin trike at any scenario nor crush it in 3 moves from front or sides. So if you actually got behind after ambushing - crush and fracture it but if you run curcles around it after facing it - trike will still have an advantage

[slim dragon]

I used to hope apexes could have epic battles where skill would matter a lot

[faint robin]

No matter how much dmg crush does, it can do 1 dmg but it have 2 freakin autowin mechanics. It'll always be op like that.

[slim dragon]

But in the end, trike VS rex isn't that different from omni VS pre-hordetest pachy

[faint robin]

I hoped that too tbh
Now its just a pin fracture slop

[golden coral]

Survival, not PvP, I think that might be the sentiment here. Teno-style would be nice, but maybe that's too fun.

[fluid pond]

The Rex should be the way it is, but they should fix the trike's hitbox.

[hoary radish]

Removing the pin from the Rex is like asking to remove the defense mode from the Trike.

[faint robin]

Rex shouldn't pin trike in any scenario and the crush should only fracture trike from behind

[faint robin]

Pin vs trike
Ofc it should pin smaller animals

[slim dragon]

But apexes are, or should be, the prime example of playables designed around pvp
If there is ONE THING that needs to have interesting fights, it's them

[hoary radish]

Haven't you understood yet that this doesn't happen anymore?

[faint robin]

It does man

[golden coral]

Sides would also fracture I'm pretty sure, and pin, well I agree, pin/grapple are just bad, unless they're proper finishers and nothing else.

[fluid pond]

Brother, learn to use the trike better and you'll see that the Rex isn't op at all.

[hoary radish]

only smaller then him

[faint robin]

There's a vid above of prime rex pinning prime trike

[faint robin]

Sides should be body fracture not leg

[hoary radish]

No, he's not immobilizing.

[golden coral]

Oh I agree, but I'm not sure that is what they're going for, especially not if they wanted the apexes to be well, apexes. Meaning that you should never go near them unless you want to return to selection screen

[hoary radish]

you need rly, rly need learn more

[golden coral]

Honestly, more likely to be leg than body quite frankly, if you hit the hind leg from the side, that'd be a legbreak. And I wouldn't try for the front leg, too close to the danger area

Makes more sense than breaking leg by biting over the tail of the trike at least

[faint robin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/3Y0NSSN1eAw?si=Sc0KhWUE746jBU2N to all the ppl whining on rex being "too weak"
It still runs circles around trike, still fractures it in 3 crushes and still can pin it 🙂
I don't see how trike is superior in this fight even face to face in any way.

[hoary radish]

There are no instances where he can hold the same weight, or even more, than him on the pin.

[faint robin]

Balance wise its not good tho

[faint robin]

In the end rex pins trike 2 times

[golden coral]

Depends on how quickly you can turn as trike and have the rex meet your face instead

[faint robin]

Devs also said its an issue that needs to be fixed

[hoary radish]

Rex plays much better than Trike, no comparison.

I believe this is one of the few times the trike is playing, it doesn't make sense to base it on one play.

The trike is completely lost.

and pin have 3 sec of cooldown

[faint robin]

Trike missclicked thrash which is too easy to missclick and got killed just because of it

Devs seems to be completely unaware of complaints about rex

[fluid pond]

that trike doesnt have skill XD

[faint robin]

Its problem wasn't the dmg they nerfed
Ofc rex should do big dmg
Crush problem were and are pin+fracture in one move

Dmg does nothing here
Crush can do 0.5 pure dmg but with both pin and fracture + the spammability its still gonna be op

Its so easy balance

[steep gazelle]

Rex needs Crush damage back, but with a limit of 60% of its own weight to inflict Pin/Fracture

I think that would fix Rex

Fracture and Pin would still be useful against mid-tier less than 6 tons, but wouldn't be overpowered against those with 6 tons or more, From there, Rex needs to know how to use his abilities correctly

[sullen dragon]

Make it 62% so it can fracture prime Maia then we good

Nah 65%

[hoary radish]

You guys are hilarious wanting to nerf Rex even more.

You guys must be kidding me.

People only think about themselves.

[steep gazelle]

63% is good. Rex doesn't need to fracture Stego, since he can knock him down.

[steep gazelle]

increasing the crush damage from 1k to 3k is a nerf?

[hoary radish]

Do you really think it's all that?

HAHAHAHAH

trike players...

[steep gazelle]

Rex players want Rex to be invincible against everything, it's very funny

[golden coral]

Extra stability for stego when tail raised would be nice, catch stego unaware, knock it over and finish it off. Let it ready itself, be in for more of a struggle.

[sullen dragon]

Huh

So Rex would basically 2 shot a stego then

[dusky surge]

no one has ever said this ever lmao

[sullen dragon]

And 3 shot a prime stego.

Let Rex body fracture stego and trike in 2-3 crushes

Not leg break, body fracture. And increase the damage from 1k to 2k

[dusky surge]

also i love how rex players somehow think 3k damage is a nerf?

and i'm shocked muen thinks that'd balance rex???

dude that'd make rex even MORE powerful and obnoxious

[sullen dragon]

Yeah lol

[dusky surge]

the "pin/fracture" downside literally does not matter

brother that is 3000 damage, that's a one-tap to a stego head

[sullen dragon]

I don’t think 3k damage is the answer here. I believe what I proposed is the best for Rex. 2k damage and body fractures apexes. Leg fractures mid tiers

[dusky surge]

for 4% stamina, you instantly kill a stego without a fight

what a way to reduce rex to the most boring-ass, instakill playable ever

[sullen dragon]

8% and adult stego but yeah

[dusky surge]

pretty sure it's 4%

every single time i've tested, it's been 4%

[sullen dragon]

Crush deals the same amount of damage. It doesn’t have locational damage

Even if you use it on the head, you won’t deal extra damage

[sullen dragon]

One crush is 4% so 2 crushes to kill a stego = 8%

[dusky surge]

like genuinely, rex crush is FINE as it is

i think reducing the pin/fracture mechanics defeats the point of what rex is supposed to be, it's supposed to be an executioner

that has been its fantasy to the animal

the damage it does, imho, is fine, and i think buffing it is overkill

given that it has many otherways to do powerful damage, and fracture already has some of the most utility of any attack in the game

[sullen dragon]

But the problem with leg break is that it disables trike entire kit idk man. Leg breaking it in only 3 crushes is kind of op. The trike basically losses everytime cuz of this

[dusky surge]

i can agree to that

here's how i'd solve it

no leg fractures on rex

just body fractures

[sullen dragon]

That’s what I proposed. Increase damage from 1k to —-> 2k and it only body fractures stego/trike while still leg breaking mid tiers Maia and below

[dusky surge]

it exhausts the prey, allowing rex to put them into its pin threshhold, then, it can complete its kill

additionally, how is rex mouth accessing a trike leg??? lmao it makes no sense, at least pachy actually aims for the damn limb

no, no leg breaks for anything imho

[sullen dragon]

Why

[dusky surge]

because it's dumb

it makes zero sense

the attack targets the body

[sullen dragon]

I mean I guess if you body fracture things then you can just track them down as rex

[dusky surge]

a body fracture will leave the prey exhausted and allow you to pursue and kill it

[sullen dragon]

Problem with this will be the absurd amount of body denies

[dusky surge]

but tbh, a midtier shouldn't be getting away from you in the first place

[sullen dragon]

If a Rex chases down something let’s say a Maia after it gets body fractured then it’ll just body deny before dying

[dusky surge]

balancing around body deniers is just ridiculous imho

[sullen dragon]

Yeah but it’s a HUGE problem. Don’t you think?

[steep gazelle]

Yes. This is better than breaking Stego leg and making him useless

[dusky surge]

no

i genuinely don't think it's that big a problem

[sullen dragon]

Yeah I might be over thinking it ig

[dusky surge]

hell i dont see it enough to genuinely even care about it

[steep gazelle]

Nah. Rex fractures only mid-tiers, that's good for him

[dusky surge]

how exactly will a maia body deny a rex in the first place? drown itself? a rex can easily drag that corpse to shore and eat it anyways

throw itself off a cliff? rex will just walk around the cliff and eat it at the bottom of it

there's nothing a maia can do to make that the rex doesn't end up with its meal

[sullen dragon]

Nah I can definitely think of a lot of stuff that can body deny a Rex but honestly it’s irrelevant since I’ll just be playing unofficals and body denying there isn’t allowed

[dusky surge]

nah, i dont agree

i think limiting a core mechanic to rex is a really silly way to balance it and limits the amount of danger it presents in fights

in a battle between rex and giga, rex should fear the horrible bleed, giga should fear the crippling fractures

[sullen dragon]

Personally I just don’t see the devs removing leg break from Rex tho

They might nerf leg break threshold against trike but that’s about it

[steep gazelle]

It may not seem like it, but it's true. Stego will have to play more calmly and Rex will have to conserve his stamina.

Sure, removing the bug that canceled the crush animation with the G key and maybe removing the headhit bonus for crush

[golden coral]

3K on an attack would oneshot stego on headshot. Which may be fair, I guess.

[sullen dragon]

It doesn’t have locational damage

Rex crush deals fixed damage, even if used on the head

[steep gazelle]

Stego were able to handle Rex before, the biggest problem was the leg fracture

[sullen dragon]

I’d like the crush damage to be 2k not 3k personally

[sullen dragon]

It’s not the leg fracture that’s the problem

[golden coral]

I'd rather have stability on tail raised, not that fractures are neccesarily fun, but I like the idea of ambush vs aware stego being quite a different approach and fight/engagement (not that stego is really allowed to fight rex I don't think, but still)

[sullen dragon]

Since stego can swing even if he’s leg fractured. The problem is that Rex has more health + can bait stego power swings and use crush. Rex should always win against stego so idc. Main important matchup that needs balance is trike v Rex

[sullen dragon]

True id love this

[steep gazelle]

That was the main thing. Rex could knock down, fracture, and inflict massive damage on Stego. Without the fracture, Stego could move, gain distance, and devise a strategy.
Stego needs 3-5 power swings to kill a Rex, so it's fair

[golden coral]

Huh. That's.... odd I guess. I would have expected all things to have locational unless it's like a pounce where you only have the one slot (though with different slots and the ability to move, there is some potential, could even add in bucking chance/risk or being knocked of by terrain or not). But nevermind then, two tap, which is still perhaps rather brutal, or fair, depending on who you ask I guess.

[dusky surge]

"Rex should always win against stego so idc"

hard disagree with everything to do with this

stego should not be left as fodder for no one to play

i dont like the idea of just having kentro added to replace stego because no one wants to play the worst animal in the game

[golden coral]

I've heard everything from stego can run, to stego can fight, to stego can't really do anything, to stego can run but rex will walk/trot/track it down. Honestly no idea how the matchup actually goes. I'm inclined to think it's fine, in some manner, and that stego is doing okay, but I'm nowhere near sure.

[sullen dragon]

No if a Rex ambushes you and you’re a stego you deserve to die Ngl. If you don’t want to risk dying be in the open and as soon as you spot a Rex run the other direction

[dusky surge]

that doesn't work, rex is faster in both murdersprint and trot

if you said the same thing about a para, sure, because a para likely has the mobility to just gtfo

[golden coral]

I'd agree on the ambush, but not neccesarily the run away part. I do however also think stego should be an apex proper, so there is that. I've no idea why they've settled on stego being where it is.

[sullen dragon]

I have tried trotting down stegos 6 separate times and I’ve failed all 6 times. I genuinely don’t think u can trot them down unless you have esp hacks. It’s not possible. Rex can only catch them when ambushing them from 10-20 meters away but that’s it

[dusky surge]

stego is in the bizarre place where it should be an apex, it has all the tools to be an apex, it COULD fight rex reasonably, but they keep handicapping it to make sure it CAN'T

which is weird because if you want stegos to hunt, you gotta make stegos survivable enough for people to play

mainly i think they should reduce the absurd powerswing cost first and foremost

everything else can come after that

[sullen dragon]

So what’s your proposal then on the matchup? I still see plenty of stegos

[golden coral]

I could give you an entire essay, but I'll just save that for mods. The devs want stego to be what it currently is, much as I think it's weird. But as long as stego is doing fine, all is well. So if you see lots of them and they successfully escapes and survives, then it's working.

[sullen dragon]

Yeah I genuinely can’t trot stegos down as a Rex. I’ve also talked to other Rex players and they said the same.

[dusky surge]

• make powerswing not cost as much as it does
• change powerswing stance from "hold RMB" to "press control/space" to swap between powerswing and regular stance
• powerswing stance has a 10% debuff to movement speed, but a 25% increase to stability
• LMB to do the light swing, RMB to do the running powerswing (now you can do it standing)

would be a lot more interesting than what we have now imho

[golden coral]

I guess they've settled on it being a large tier, stupid as tiers are. Not sure how they want the allo vs stego matchup to go, honestly. Maybe stego is meant to match allo after all.

[dusky surge]

ironically? stego nukes allo, like, insanely so

[hoary radish]

funny is you, thinking that it does 3k damage

[dusky surge]

like might be allo's hardest matchup in the entire game

[dusky surge]

he doesn't think it does 3k damage lmao, he wants it to do 3k damage

[golden coral]

Then I've no complaints, aside from finding it weird that they kind of made stego powerful, and yet decided that it can't be an apex. Despite, from what I can tell, offering something different from both trike and anky.

[stark ether]

I think the tail being raised should add stability, but also keeping it raised for too long begins to either drain stamina or prevent regaining stamina

That way stegos only have it up when they’re going to be using it, an unaware stego is a much more appealing target than one that knows you’re there

[golden coral]

Huh, that's kind of funny then yes. Though it might change, for all we know.

[sullen dragon]

Dondi did say allo won’t have a good time against a stego so I doubt it’d change

[golden coral]

My idea there was to make it much slower to raise, so it's a "need to see and prepare" and that every time you raise it, it costs a certain stamina cost, like 5% (and I'd lower the powerswing to 5% as well, since now there's that extra cost in raising the tail)

[sullen dragon]

But honestly as bad as stego have it bad now, I still see plenty of them around. I’m sure when they start learning how to use it and escape Rexes there’ll be even more stego players

[stark ether]

That’d be neat. But given how they’ve balanced like, charge bite idk if they’re willing to even attempt that kind of balancing

[golden coral]

But stability there was purely so that a rex that gets the ambush gets the knockdown, but if the stego is ready, rex can't just knock it down and finisht it off with a few headbites.

[dusky surge]

im not a fan of stance-swaps being costly

[stark ether]

If the stance is more impactful, then I’m down

[golden coral]

When you can remain in the stance and at the ready without anything else, I think it's perfectly fine to have a cost for getting ready

[dusky surge]

i'd still make the stance reduce your movement speed slightly as opposed to having a stamcost

makes a more meaningful tradeoff imho, and feels less awful

[golden coral]

To be fair, it might also go the other way, depending on how it will work out on main branch in the long term

[golden coral]

Maybe not, it's mostly ideas, I do intend to attempt a mod when we get that in the future, just to see if I can make a "full power" apex stego and if it can work out

[golden coral]

Oh I'd do that too, but then you'd have to give stego a fighting ability, otherwise it won't do much

Not a fan of the running swing anyway so

[steep gazelle]

It does 3k damage, but only during the full crush animation, more or less like the Trike thrash which takes 2 hits to deal the full damage

If you use the crush quickly and press G to cancel, it won't work And it won't do 3k damage

Sure, that's in the Rex before the update

If I'm not mistaken, this only happened because Rex was able to pin the Trike and Stego, With the incomplete animation, I believe it's around 2-2.5k.

[hoary radish]

It's not that high.

[sullen dragon]

1k damage when used on non pinned prey, 2.8k damage when used on pinned prey. Keep in mind you lose basically half if not 70% of ur stamina when pinning something

[random salmon]

how did a prime elder rex cc oneshot my 4.1 ton croc then? 1 pin and died

[sullen dragon]

Yeah the Rex can hold the pin if the weight difference is a a lot

[random salmon]

it was the biggest waist of 6 hours of my life, couldnt even see him and rex is the only thing with working night vision atm

[sullen dragon]

Until he’s basically out of stamina. Deals 2.8k damage then repeats and deals another 2.8k damage. Repeats till stamina is zero. Not sure how it works but I’ve pinned allos before and didn’t one shot then as an adult with pin but other times I pinned them and one shot them. Definitely has something to do with being below 50% of Rex’s weight

[warm flax]

playable with pin combined with the cannibal mutation is really harming the player experience and leaving the most toxic player still playing this game
You’re already limited to communicating only with your own species, and yet when you meet a raptor or an allo and try to greet them, you can get instantly pinned—even when you’re roughly the same weight and there’s nothing can do being overpowered by 1 button

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message

Nerf trike suggestion

looks inside

basically nothing about it talks about issues that trike has besides the mutation that we all dislike but makes stego marginally better

[dusky surge]

LMAO

"nerf this animal, the mutation is too strong"

blaming the window for the dirt upon it

[elfin night]

And then trike out of all herbivores

I may not agree, but I can get behind some people asking for teno, dibble or even maia nerfs

But it’s just whack to ask for trike, stego, pachy, hypsi or dryo to be nerfed

[elfin night]

@hoary radish latency (as expected from a HT too), tactile endurance and rex nerfs are not really a trike issue

Pinged because you might as well be given the chance to defend your case

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
That's a mut problem, not a trike problem. It has to be strong enough to stand its ground, especially with majority of players being carnis (and this is the norm for game's ecosystem)

Also on that note, carnis should not have tactile. Their main source of damage is always free

Ideally I'd love to see both tactile and gastro gone from the game and stamina cost for abilities for herbis being rebalanced instead

Although I suppose it is fair in a way, carnis get 3 different damage muts, and herbis have stamina regen ones. I'd prefer HP but oh well

[slim dragon]

Make all attacks cost stamina

[maiden temple]

Even bites?

[slim dragon]

of course

[maiden temple]

Maybe yeah

[slim dragon]

Bites not costing stam while every other attack does makes zero sense

Especially since many dinos now have special attacks that cost stam but are bites animation-wise

[maiden temple]

It's been ages since I've had a 0 stam fight moment tbh, it could encourage both sides to disengage/give up the hunt naturally so I wouldn't mind it

[slim dragon]

I'm sure it would solve the "nipping an opponent that cannot defend itself till death" like pteras killing stegos or other big things issue
Because you'd run out of stam before you can kill them

[maiden temple]

Yeah that'd be nice, with reasonable costs and no tactile. Requires even more planning/tactics

[slim dragon]

And encourages people to retreat when a fight isn't going their way instead of fighting to the death

[maiden temple]

Yup! I thought I'd see this more often tbh, considering permadeath and lives having value through rebirth as stacked muts. People still throw themselves to die often though xD

[elfin night]

But we like carnivore deathmatch right?

Carnivore dinosaurs are ferocious killing machines that ignore all pain and exhaustion, and simply keep going

Until the weak herbivore herd is pulverized

[slim dragon]

Sorry I forgot
I'm gonna whip myself
I'm a filthy grass eater

[elfin night]

You should regret such zeal for useless fooder playables

[slim dragon]

I regret everything
My soul is tainted and my body is impure

[elfin night]

Atone for your sins by playing allosaurus

The Lion of the Jurassic shall clean thy spirit from woe and wickedness

[steep otter]

Remove damage muts has well if you take out tactile out of herbs

Herbs dont have any damage muts

[slim dragon]

Of course

Speed muts, damage muts, stamina muts
All belong to the smelter

[maiden temple]

Yeah eveything that affects base stat numbers should be gone

I'm so glad the speed mut is gone on HT, I hated being forced to pick it

[steep otter]

Same

[elfin night]

Yep it was a needed change

[viscid mica]

@hoary radish the first hit on that last thrash was justified your head was in his head but that second hit I can see the issue it reaches to far to the side

I’m wondering if it’s a hitreg issue? Where since the first half hit it simply believes the second must hit too

Less hitbox more game hitreg bug?

[hoary radish]

Even the first one shouldn't hit, my head is in the middle of his body, how could he attack from behind haha

[viscid mica]

Your head is definitely not in the middle of his body

Your snout is past his shield

On the first attack sure, but he shifted and you stepped forward on the second

[hoary radish]

bro

you need glasses

[viscid mica]

[viscid mica]

When you left click what does the top of your jaw do?

Move up so when your looking straight down what does it do

Move forward

Meaning your head hitbox moved into his

You acc for desync and all that 100% your hitbox was fair game

On the first part of the thrash

[elfin night]

I am fine with hitboxes being fair

But the main problem I and others have with that post is that it is requesting nerfs for trike when a) nothing in trike’s kid was specifically called out, and b) most of these are issues other playables have, meaning they are outside balancing

It feels so wrong to ask for nerfs to a specific playable when it already is in a kind of mediocre spot in the hordetest

[sullen dragon]

Wym mediocre

Trike is one of the strongest playables in the horde test right now

[elfin night]

Strongest doesn’t mean best

Although maybe I should have specified that, similarly to many people here including some who have engaged in fairly extensive rankings and the like for playables, being good or bad for me relies on viability and your total efficiency surviving

Adult/elder trikes are very strong and do fine, but the early and mid game is absolutely atrocious when rex and allo exist, let alone other big carnivores in the future. So to me trike isn’t really a top tier playable but rather one in the middle if not maybe a little above average

[viscid mica]

This

Good late game bad early game

[elfin night]

And the early game is most of its lifetime

Then you have playables like teno, herra or beipi that are perpetually viable

[viscid mica]

@random stump realest thing you’ve ever posted ONG

[sullen dragon]

Yeah I see what you’re saying

[random stump]

broken clock right twice a day or smthn idk

[sullen dragon]

But honestly I don’t mind trike having a bad early game since he’s an apex, apexes should be a very hard grow

[viscid mica]

Real 🤣

[viscid mica]

I mean with recent early grow changes to Rex it’s early game isn’t as bad anymore (ignoring drinking bug)

[elfin night]

Trike just has some really terrible matchups that don’t quite right, with how for instance fresh adults can be walked down and effortlessly crushed by an elder rex

I am the first one to advocate for hard growth in apexes, and I was one of the first people who did find out that trike was gonna take +10 hours to grow when they made that patch in its hordetest and applauded it. I am fine with apexes being challenging, but there’s no challenge or difficulty in a six ton trike getting walked down and crushed by a rex, and I’ve seen that happening. It is artificial, unsatisfying deaths that actually conflict with what the devs have said about wanting a fair experience, which is the case in most matchups

Similar thing goes to deino which further adds to its misery as easily the worst playable in the game. 6 ton crocs gets walked down by 8 ton ones and loses without any chance to outmaneuver, hide or fight.

[random stump]

I would like it if rex was actually a difficult apex to grow tbh

like trike and stego you need to hide from everything and never leave the woods until you're near adult, deino is hard to keep fed generally speaking, but rex you literally sit in a sanctuary till you hit 250ish kg, go sit in the woods until 500, and now you're a viable playable that can go roam the plains

[soft mantle]

@random stump i agree but if a rex crushes it's head it's done for instantly pinned to death

same for the others except allo

[sullen dragon]

?

Rex is still one of the hardest playables to grow in the game

And it’s as to be expected since he’s an apex so I’m not complaining

[soft mantle]

u can't show ur face until u are much bigger cuz carno is a real threat

[viscid mica]

Nothing compares to troodon rn

[native urchin]

• stego is 2 tons 10 minutes after sanctuary XD
• rex takes 4/5 hours to reach 1

[soft mantle]

true xd

[valid robin]

Yeah ngl I read that and was really confused you realize Rex is at <200kg for 10% of its growth which translates to 2 hours?

It’s also slow as a potato

[sullen dragon]

Rex has to hide from everything for the first 3-4 hours of his life. He doesn’t magically shoot up from 185 kg to 3 tons 20-30 minutes after leaving sanc (cough cough stego and trike)

[soft mantle]

and trike and stego are hard to kill for other similar sized carnis while rex is really weak compared to any other carnivore of same size

[native urchin]

AND, as trike and stego u can litterally go on te edge of the map, wait for a pz to spawn and stay there and still have good growth rate

rex u have to move around, sure u can stay in a ai spawn spot, but that attracts other carnivores as well, and sure, not all herbis are friends, but no carnivore is friendly XD

[random stump]

rex crushing its head would just do enough damage to instantly kill something that small

[viscid mica]

3-4 hours? Try 1 max

Your faster than half the roaster after about an hour or 2

[random stump]

you get fast enough to outrun everything but carno and galli really fast

and you eat galli

[valid robin]

Also as for this point, Rex also does this to other rexes, happened to me. Primes herbis can also do this to rexes, sub adult rex is slow af has no stam and doesn’t trot super fast either

[sullen dragon]

Yes which is why stego and trike are slower than Rex. Rex as a juvie (450kg to 1.6 tons) is very fast but can’t hunt anything of similar size or slightly lower. He still has threats such as carnos. Raptors dilos and ceras can chase you down even if you’re faster than them due to your terrible stamina. So if a cerato sees you and decides to track you, he will catch you. Sub Rex has the huge problem of getting killed by allos and other Rexes

[soft mantle]

i was just saying cuz u said it should not be pinnable, i meant it should be pinnable if hit in the head

[native urchin]

carno free food, since carno is still faster!

and ceras or anything really can track u down if u are bleeding cause u simply dont have the stam

[random stump]

nah it should just drop dead

[sullen dragon]

Everything tracks you down even if you’re faster than them. I was tracked down by ceras/raptors so many times as 800kg Rex

[soft mantle]

yes

[viscid mica]

Bushes and turning left boom countered

[random stump]

ok skill issue then? dont get tracked down ig? it rains every like 10 minutes, could you not stay away for that long?

[native urchin]

well, now charge does bleed, and its not like its hard to hit the charge XD

[soft mantle]

exactly, i can say u played rex a fair bit while the other brother seems like it definitely did not

[elfin night]

With rex is does happen, although at least they can crouch and since they are quite fast when young, there’s always that sort of margin where you can get away from people if you get away fast enough regardless of stamina

However there’s cases like deino or trike where you are too slow to hide yourself when walked down by cannis

[viscid mica]

It’s not like it’s hard to dodge charge either

[sullen dragon]

Broski rain doesn’t cover ur tracks, everything still tracks you down. You could say the same thing about you complaining about stego/trike. just stay hidden then? Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Both are a hard grow. They don’t need to be any harder, especially Rex

[soft mantle]

it is impossible to dodge charge cuz desync is a thing

[valid robin]

Nah bro prime stego is faster than rex and has more stam that’s pure cope

[random stump]

rex is the easiest apex to grow by a mile and a half are we playing the same game

[valid robin]

You just die

[sullen dragon]

It’s not tho lmfao

[soft mantle]

Even if u dodge charge u get hit by charge WHAT GAME ARE U PLAYING?

[valid robin]

I’m talking from personal experience

[sullen dragon]

Stego/trike are definitely easier

[elfin night]

Does it trot quicker?

[viscid mica]

One where I play on servers I have a stable ping on you!?

[native urchin]

meh, btu regardless... im not saying its an issue!

im just stating a fact, even if u are fast, you are not that safe..... and with allo in the game, until u are like 4/5 tons u can be prey, and that is like 8h of growth!

trike and stego are pretty mnuch safe from anything aside from rex after that many hours

[random stump]

step 1 spawn in, step 2 the sanctuary by west rail until you hit like 600 kg, step 3 gg ez entire server (noone plays carno)

[soft mantle]

same

[random stump]

is this what it was like talking to me about deino zio

[soft mantle]

doesn't matter how good your ping is if the other person is playing carno it will hit u without touching even ur tail

[sullen dragon]

You never have to worry about food problem, you have 300% diet in sanc and after leaving sanc. After leaving sanc you shoot up to 3 tons after 20 minutes and 90% the roster now can’t hunt you. You can just afk bush camp simulator with the infinite pzs that spawn. They’re by far easier to grow than a Rex

[valid robin]

Idk but I’m not really sure why it’s relevant when it has another 30-40s of stam in the tank and is considerably faster than you

[soft mantle]

especially if they have bad ping, which gives them an advantage with this game

[viscid mica]

Yes

[native urchin]

what are u hunting in sanct? that everything outgrows u by they time they reach teh sanct XD

[elfin night]

Because effective distance

[random stump]

the 9 billion baby (newest creature to enter hordetest) that show up constantly, as well as the crabs & turtles that spawn literally 5 inches outside the sanctuary

[valid robin]

If you walk into a field with a prime stego, you are dead

If it wants

[elfin night]

If you trot faster as an apex, there’s a point where it wouldn’t be able to catch you

[sullen dragon]

I don’t think broski has played Rex more than two times in the whole hordetest 😭

[random stump]

i have played it dozens of times

[native urchin]

wild takes for real

[valid robin]

Okay maybe if you see a prime stego across delta it won’t catch you, but you could say the same thing about rex and any of the other subs

[sullen dragon]

What are these takes then cuz wtf 😭

[random stump]

it is the easiest thing possible my guy like i have struggled more with cerato because of allos touching me the moment i am seen

[soft mantle]

Rex is literally the hardest thing to grow except deino what is this guy on about

[sullen dragon]

Yeah let’s ignore allos touching sub Rex too

[random stump]

meanwhile a sub rex i can explode an allo out of a pair and then the other runs off

[soft mantle]

i've played every playable btw

[native urchin]

how is allo touching your cera but not your rex?

[sullen dragon]

Is dude really trying to say allo is much of an issue for cera then Rex? Cera is literally faster….

[elfin night]

Honestly if you are too close that could be blamed on the player since rex can actually crouch to be much quieter and can be aware of its surroundings. I can take your word, but I would have to say the specifics

And frankly I could say the same to trike of being aware now that I think about it, but trike needs to aware all the time until it is a full grown adult or elder, whereas rex for a big chunk of its growth has the possibility of running away and hiding

[random stump]

trex... CRUSH allo!!! allo no more run! allo broken legg, no pounce, no pin... Cerato... get pinned by allo! die!

[elfin night]

I don’t like talking about things I don’t know much about. I just haven’t tried much stego v rex

[sullen dragon]

Sub Rex just dies to allo. U need to be at least 5 tons to do anything to them

[viscid mica]

With recent changes beyond the 200 allo 10 packs Rex growing isn’t that hard (minus water bug again)

[valid robin]

This is generally true for apexes, but during that period the rest of the roster has a much easier time hunting you than they do either of the herbis

[native urchin]

if rex doesnt knock em with the alt, u are basically easy food for allos lowkey..... skill not taken into account

[sullen dragon]

It’s still one of the hardest to grow in the game. If you say Rex is easy then everything else is easy to compare

Nothing is “hard” to grow in this game

[native urchin]

you are slow, and cant crush anything for like 6 hours though

[random stump]

?????????????????????????

[native urchin]

not slow for 6 hours, but still too weak to crush allos

[valid robin]

Stego basically unkillable by smalls most of its growth, trike is slightly weaker but in a defensive position is also basically unkillable by smalls

[random stump]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[sullen dragon]

I saw a 6.7 ton Rex get pinned by 2 allos the other day btw

[elfin night]

Do they? Speed is the most valuable stat in the game

I dunno about you, but being able to run for 1 minute at 55kph seems far more valuable than running at 20kph for 5 minutes because at least you can evade things that simply outstat you or evade groups

(This of course does not apply to anky. Anky is my goat)

[random stump]

skill issue rex ambush the allos

[sullen dragon]

Rex gets obliterated if not full grown

[random stump]

nuh uh

[valid robin]

But Rex has that speed for like 2% of its growth

[sullen dragon]

There was 3 allos. He crushed one, 2 allos pounced him and he got pinned to his death

[elfin night]

Without context it’s hard to tell

[random stump]

skill issue rex dont fight 3 allos

[sullen dragon]

You’re slower… they’re fighting you

[elfin night]

And for the rest it has like 40-50, which I still consider more valuable than 20

But yeah juvi balancing is hard

[random stump]

"My ambush predator loses when it doesnt get an ambush on a pack hunter designed to kill things bigger then itself 😢 "

[sullen dragon]

Also you just said you have more of an issue of cera vs allos than Rex vs allos. What is this take? Cera is faster so you can just not fight them while with Rex you have to fight them even if you’re 2 tons below them. Youre too slow to run away

[valid robin]

Bro Rex has speed from 40% to 50%, rest of growth it’s slow af

[sullen dragon]

No im not complaining that he lost his Rex. Im showing you why it’s not an easy grow as you’re saying lmfao. It’s showing how much you want to complain about Rex just for the sake of complaining

[random stump]

cerato only gets quicker then allos pretty late into its growth (relatively), and has an immense hunger drain while growing. its a mad dash around the map looking for food while ducking allos. meanwhile you eat once while growing as rex and have a solid 30+ minutes to go and find something to kill before you get another major weight increase and lose most of your food bar

[elfin night]

I do not quite agree with how Fsh put it

But honestly what was that Rex doing attacking a group of 3 allos? Not like it was gonna be allowed to eat with the other two around

This is like trying to solo push a lane in league knowing the whole enemy team is alive and then complain when 4 people jump you

[random stump]

jumping into a backline of invis woman peni emma frost and bucky as hulk 🥀

[elfin night]

I have only played Rex once (and got it to elder funnily enough), I don’t know how well it performs especially after the nerf

[native urchin]

takes an hour to reach 30% that is when u reach the 70kg mark..... then u start growing with bigger ticks, until like 40% u are around 400kg.... at tat point you start getting real fast... until u are like 1 ton, at 45%... still cant crush much anymore..... then u reach 2.9 tons at 50% and u are slower than allo, unless u use ambush speed.... but still, allo outstams u.

this is 6H of growth.

at 6 h stego is fg, u are already dominating allos at 3 tons, that u reach in barely 2 and half hours 3 max, if u keep good diets.... trike is simply safe from anything aside from rex after 6h, since you are already 6+ tons

[sullen dragon]

I have never once had a food issue as a cerato, not once. Cerato grows so fast to the point you don’t have to worry about being slower for more than 10 minutes

[elfin night]

Real

I think the rex just overextended and got punished for it

[native urchin]

and u can eat bones and rotten food

[sullen dragon]

You can literally smell food from across the map as a cerato. Food is NOT an issue

[elfin night]

So in that case that’s the Rex’s fault for not picking targets properly

Not a situation I would use to justify balance changes

[random stump]

all of the food is in river delta or its still alive and in the deep woods where its nigh impossible to find

[native urchin]

im not saying rex growth is wrong..... im simply saying its not easy!

trike and stego being harder to grow is a wild take

[random stump]

and riverdelta is full of a certain animal whats it called again

[sullen dragon]

Yes it’s a deserved death for the Rex, but it shows that allos are much of a threat for Rexes than ceratos, as opposed to what fsh is saying

[random stump]

https://tenor.com/view/the-allosaurus-allo-islecord-the-isle-you-have-alerted-gif-26477049

[valid robin]

Having tried to grow Rex about 10 times I can confirm that growing it is a nightmare.

[random stump]

every time you try to eat as cerato its just this

[elfin night]

Oh he’s saying that? That’s wild then

[native urchin]

you mean the dibbble herds controlled by a mass of allos or bigger rex that will insta kill if they see you?

[sullen dragon]

YES

[elfin night]

I just went full tryhard that time

Playing super carefully

[random stump]

i mean the mass of allos that will eat my cerato alive the millisecond its spotted

[sullen dragon]

Everything in this game is an “easy” grow if you put it into perspective, but when we compare Rex grow compared to the rest of the roster, it’s definitely not easy and is one of the hardest

[native urchin]

u can run from allos! and u can sustain yourself on deer and boars.... rex will have to go there at some point for the dibble

[random stump]

theres like 9 on both sides of the river and one swims onto the island i swam to to get away and i EXPLODE!

[elfin night]

Most growths in the game are easy

But then the ones that aren’t are a coinflip, and I don’t like that

Deino is the best example of that

[sullen dragon]

Good thing you’re faster

[native urchin]

deino and rex are true apex difficult growths.

stego and trike are easy mode growing, and it should be harder imo! but its okay

[elfin night]

If I had to pick any growth as hard, I would probably choose trike since you need to get mega carried by your game sense

But most of the “hard” ones are plainly a coinflip

[sullen dragon]

Personally I don’t mind stego and trike being an easy grow since they’re herbis and herbi population is already low as it is. Need an incentive for people to play them, and being an easy grow is one of them

[random stump]

not yet im not

[sullen dragon]

True, it’s all luck at the end. You can have 10 bad grows but you’ll eventually get that one good grow and it’ll be an easy af time

[random stump]

i prefer no ai servers cuz they're like 80% herbivore players (no the stuff ive been dealing with isnt on no ai servers cuz there arent any on HT rn)

[elfin night]

Deino is not difficult

It’s just a miserable playable with an even more miserable early game because deinosuchus has deinosuchus as its only reliable food source. And it would be “fine” (still needs rework to have agency over what it eats) if the younger ones didn’t get walked down and traded by adults, and you gotta eat and go to the surface at some time.

If the bigger gators don’t kill you it’s usually because they are not interested.

And then you rely so hard on fish spawns when going solo especially

I could rant for so long about deino but why bother. We all know it’s abysmal design wise

[native urchin]

yea, its okay! and im all for rex growth being difficult, it is a powerhouse whn grown, i didnt mind it when it was so strong even before!

i fought rexes as trike and never had an issue

[random stump]

deino is 100% luck to grow and keep alive which is kinda lame but oh well

[native urchin]

yea, but in the end its a coinflip: on paper its liek taht, but in reality, one wront turn, and u meet up the bigger deino and u are gone xD

[elfin night]

I pray we get the rework in the next HT

Else it’s gonna be even clearer how terrible it is when we get more fun and viable semi aquatics

[random stump]

yup

[elfin night]

Yep, and that’s why I don’t consider it hard

To me difficulty isn’t about how many tries overall it takes, but rather the amount of effort it takes for you to successfully grow it in a reliable way

And deino only has two real options:
• group up and canni solo gators with no effort
• grow in a corner of the map, knowing full well that if you encounter a bigger deino it is slaughter you effortlessly

It sucks. It needs so much fixing

I’m actually tired of saying it but I have to make sure everyone knows and is vocal about the problem with that playable

[native urchin]

But also have to take into account hours spent/vulnerability….. spending 6h just to be drowned because u are still small is annoying….. but it’s what makes it much more valuable when u reach fg, because u went through the tough times