balance-feedback-discussion

[slim dragon]

Herrera is an ambusher
It kills by ambushing
Once on the ground it's pretty much worthless
If it tries to jump on on an omni but doesn't kill it outright then the omni just pins it and it's over

Idk what you consider to be a mid-tier but omni definitely isn't one

[dusky surge]

deino is big, strong, aquatic and thus has tons more resilience and defence than most animals

herrera is small, frail and relies on its mobility to not die. If it prolongs the fight, it's dead, so having it kill slowly basically screws herrera completely over

[shadow sedge]

I completely understand that Herra is an ambusher, that’s its whole identity and as a herra main i do not want to take it away. The issue isn’t that it ambushes, but that its ambush currently ignores the logic of its own biology and gameplay balance.

In real life, Herrerasaurus (and similar small theropods) hunted prey their own size or smaller. They didn’t instantly kill large animals with a single hit. They’d latch on, bite repeatedly, and wear the prey down. The in-game Herra skips that process entirely by dealing near-instant death through bleed, even to creatures clearly larger than itself.

Deino works because its ambush makes sense both mechanically and realistically bcs it’s huge, aquatic, and can drag things underwater. That’s a believable one-shot context. Herra, by contrast, is small and fragile, giving it that same kind of instant lethality feels exaggerated and removes the depth from the encounter.

What would make more sense and actually be more fun for both sides is if the Herra’s ambush was still deadly but allowed a brief, skill-based reaction window. If the prey rests fast enough (within a few seconds), it might barely survive, but if the Herra lands again or stays near to prevent that, it finishes the kill. That would create tension, counterplay, and realism, instead of an instant, unavoidable death.

[crimson crater]

herrera irl was also 350kgs and was built around combat, TI one is different, the logic is there, herrera is destructive because of a thing called gravity if you want the "realism" perspective

[golden coral]

Real life does not matter, I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up. The herrera in game is quite different, it did not climb in real life, it would probably not survive the method of attack it uses in game, and so on. Yes, it's an ambusher, thats kind of how that works, one very powerful attack, that if it fails, tend to let the prey get away. You're not a pursuer or endurance hunter, you have the one chance and that chance only, very similar to deino. But with slightly more options for you to handle being hunted by one.

While you can argue that herrera could work differently, it currently is designed to be a tree deino, and should be treated as such. And if it's just a matter of "rest fast enough", you're going to die to the second drop anyway, you need to get sufficiently far away so the herrera can't just climb back up its tree and drop on you again. And you could maybe make it more of a follow up, but then you'd have to make herrera much better on the ground, which would maybe take away from the whole living in the trees thing it currently does.

And herrera is not the only punch up predator, so not sure why it would be bad that it can do that too, it's still rather limited I think, unless you got a good and very well coordinated group, and/or the target just stands under your tree until you've eventually dropped enough times, but that seems rather unlikely. And if you want more of a wear down style, omni, troodon, and even cera, kind of, provides that.

[shadow sedge]

I get what you mean, and yeah, in some cases you’d still die from a second drop or a few more bites… and that’s square and fair. But that’s exactly what would make it more dynamic and interesting. Even a few seconds of survival time (even as small as 5 seconds) gives you a chance to react, hide, or get help, instead of just being deleted instantly.

It wouldn’t remove Herra’s lethality, just make the encounter more skill-based and engaging. Players who still see it as an instant kill wouldn’t feel any change, but those who manage to react fast would have a slim, earned chance of escape which fits both the game’s logic and its survival design.

[crimson crater]

actually it would, herrera has 1 chance as an ambusher and that 1 shot it has gotta count, otherwise you would be able to instantly counter it, it relies on the element of surprise to quickly burst things down, the counter to ambushers is to prevent the situation from occurring in the first place

you also have to consider how unfair it would be for the herrera to not get the kill when it did everything correctly

[dusky surge]

is it even more skill based?

like i dont see what skill is added

also 5 seconds is LONG in gametime, people often underestimate that

[crimson crater]

pretty much, he’s trying to incorporate an endurance based hunting style with the whole omni type latch thing on an ambusher lol

[shadow sedge]

I get that ambushers need that one-shot for their intended prey size, and that works fine for smaller targets. My point is about larger-than-Herra dinos. The first hit shouldn’t be instantly fatal. It can do massive damage, but giving a tiny reaction window keeps fights tense and skill-based, while still letting Herra stay deadly for its natural prey.

[shadow sedge]

im not trying to come off as aggressive either btw. Im trying to talk abt my years of experience and how it makes sense to me and many ppl i have met talked abt on this subject. I get we have different perspectives and experiences and i absolutely respect it. thats also why we are even talking abt it in the first place, to share.

[golden coral]

I'm not sure just a few seconds would really help, and you mentioned you ran for something like that or even a little longer in one case, and still bled out. And killing instantly on a headshot sounds fine to me, you got an entire herrera dropped on your head/neck, as a small tier so. But unless you're in a very good, or bad for the herrera, spot, even if you run a little bit, it's still going to get you most likely. So you'd have to make it possible to make a proper get away, only to be caught up to and then attacked again, which would remove the entire ambush aspect. And omni isn't that much larger that it's unreasonable, even dilo is more or less reasonable target for it at times, for the point of the herrera and it's design. Not to mention that if you did change this, you'd probably just see a few coordinated herrera pairs or trios that will just drop right after each other and you'd still die to that more or less instantly with little to nothing to do. Similar to how deinos can cooperate to drown something, by trading who is grabbing if one is low on stam.

I'm not sure I see a good way to both let you somehow get away, in a useful manner, without herrera having to be better at pursuing, in the trees or on the ground, for follow up attacks. And while I would not mind a pursuer herrera, I'm pretty sure they want it to be more of a tree deino than not, with the very high bleed to stop a target that doesn't die instantly from getting away. You just get to potentially live a little longer than you would if a deino grabbed you, and with at least in theory and probably practice too, a better chance to somehow survive.

[shadow sedge]

I agree that a headshot one-shot is fair, no issues there. My main point is about bleed from a regular drop, going from 100% to 0% instantly feels extreme, especially compared to surviving multiple bites from a Dilo. A tiny survival window (like 3–5 seconds) could let players react, find cover, or get help from allies, giving a realistic chance to survive without breaking the ambush design. Even a 5–15% chance to escape adds strategy and tension without removing the Herra’s lethality.

[crimson crater]

what fight though? the way herrera is designed the fight is instantly over the moment you’re exposed/the opponent is aware of your presence.
it’s too reliant on the damage as we can see evidently, herrera once had low damage and it could never kill anything bigger than a dryo lol

[crimson crater]

you don’t bleed out in seconds, it’s fairly easy to survive if you play it defensively by z walking away and resting, have your pack mates cover for you and you will 100% survive, herrera lacks the means to put any real pressure AND reapply the bleed once it’s healed

[shadow sedge]

I’m specifically talking about bleed mechanics against targets larger than Herra not the ambush start and damage from jump anymore

[crimson crater]

i see

[shadow sedge]

i died yesterday from bleed. i rested after 5 seconds of running away after the attck and died going from 100 bleed to 0

i m not sure if it was like this in the past but honestly its the first time it actually happened to die this way which surprised me a lot

[crimson crater]

were you low on food and water? it can affect how much bleed you receive

[shadow sedge]

i was full on everything

[crimson crater]

the math dosen’t math

[shadow sedge]

i was healthy, perfect diet and most importantly i had the mutation to resist bleed

I’ve never experienced this before. I’m usually very careful, and I didn’t expect that outcome, especially as a Herra main myself.

[crimson crater]

https://youtu.be/FnkMEZ6y4gc?si=k0t6mj5s1bqHMPCZ go to 2:56, if you sat down in like 5 seconds you shouldn’t have bled out

this will give you an idea of how strong the bleed is

[thorn mountain]

man if only turk still posted

[shadow sedge]

Oh, I see! Maybe it was my fault then. I must definitely have ran for slightly more than 5 seconds before sitting, so maybe I sat a bit too late. If that mechanic is still active, then that’s actually great to know. I wasn’t aware of it, so thanks for sharing the clip! :)

[indigo rain]

There's two muts that counter herrera entirely. One being epidermal fibrosis which when combined with a good diet would net you 30%+ bleed resistance. On top of that traumatic thrombosis makes you not bleed out as long as you sit.

So i dont see why herrera needs any changes when players can just be more aware of their surroundings and guarantee they survive if they lose them.

[maiden temple]

Herra is a weird playable. Tbh I don't like them having bleed at all, I'd prefer they bone broke my head/body if they land on it instead

[crimson crater]

eh, just makes it a tree pachy and wouldn’t do it much good in hunts

[maiden temple]

Yeah maybe, it would just level the field for them a bit but with that puny HP they can't take advantage of it ig

[hasty coyote]

I think the bleed works far better than fractures. Bleed at least allows variability. There’s like 20 factors that could make you survive or die. Fractures would be either useless, confirmed death, or at best binary.

Head fracture literally does nothing for Herrera, so it would have to be balanced around flat out 1-shotting all of its intended prey with damage. Body fracture is useless unless the target decides to rest in a vulnerable spot, so it has the same issue. Leg fracture is just death, whether by the Herrera jumping continuously (since it’s not like you’re going anywhere any time soon) or because it can just tail ride you to death.

[maiden temple]

With fractures I was mostly thinking lowering damage of the target (head fracture) and making pursuing easier by having the target burn through their stamina quickly forcing them to rest. I forgot to account for herra's HP though lol

It's also why I didn't mention leg fracture, I don't think it should be able to do that one

Either way, Flows is right and it would not do much for herra
It just sounded fun when I thought about it

[gritty lintel]

I’d love to see more dynamic elder stats.. maybe something like Trike would have a slower attack speed because of the larger horns and frill but would have more damage and stuff like that. Some primes like Omni and Troo are so lackluster because their base damage is pretty low and they don’t gain too much weight from going through the effort to get prime

[viscid mica]

@covert nacelle galli bleed was removed due to balancing issues in short galli with bleed has absurd mixpacking and harassment(trolling) potential to a point where you cannot reason it in game

Aka gallis have such insanely good stam game combined with being the king of speed you can bully people into rage quitting or bleed people trying to escape big groups out

A group of 2-3 gallis can already easily kill a carno with just raw dps lord forbid we add bleed to that

[indigo rain]

Mfw galli trots faster than cerato runs

[eager saddle]

as it should x)

[dusky surge]

it doesnt, but its VERY close

[steep gazelle]

I never thought Galli's Bleed was a problem, even though I've died from it many times

Galli kind of "needs" this now, since most dinos can handle one easily now, Mainly carno

[indigo rain]

Tldr galli is an animal that is made to run away and excell at it. It should not be encouraged to risk its own life further by fighting

If it is bad at escaping then maybe that needs to be looked at, not adding bleed. Youd still die to a carno regardless

Gallis jump, its maneuverability, and the much denser forests gives it a huge edge in escaping now at least

[steep gazelle]

I know. But that doesn't mean he should have one of his weapons removed, especially since Anything has no problem dealing with a Galli anymore

Omni can pin, Carno can use the standing headbutt, Cerato kills a Galli in 1-2 bite charges, Teno only needs to land a kick, Dilo only needs to spam bite and then spam clone

And I don't even need to mention the others because they deal with Galli without the slightest difficulty, whether escaping unnoticed or killing them extremely easily

[indigo rain]

If a galli gets caught by an omni thats either a good ambush or the galli wasnt aware. You can omnidirectionally stun omni with an alt kick due to the weight increase and just outrun them.

Dont be standing still and let a carno headbutt you. Run into the forest, jump the logs, and watch them lose sight of you in .2 seconds.

In what world is a Teno getting close enough to kick you. Thats a genuine skill issue.

Galli can kick a dilo to death already as it is. Dont let it get close enough to bite and escape through the forest with jumps over logs. Again another predator with no jumps.

You are playing galli wrong if you are playing it with any expectation to fight. Its stamina and speed is inhuman against all except carno and it has the agility to escape that if smart.

Galli is the default dino i teach new players on if they dont know what they want to play yet because its just that hard to kill even as a baby. I play teno, i used to main theri and shant. I enjoy "bloodthirsty" herbivores. Galli is not a combat dino and has no need for bleed whatsoever. Realistic or not it only makes trolling turn into losing a dino to an objectively stupid situation imo.

[steep gazelle]

Adding Bleed back to Galli will not make a significant change to their "Run Away" gameplay, it will only get better here and there

It will also make it more fun to play with

I've never had a problem dealing with Galli, but I've died to groups, which is extremely fair

I don't know why you don't accept that Galli has Bleed, even if the difference between him having it is minimal. The only thing that will change is improve Galli gameplay xd

[maiden temple]

I saw galli and forest together and it brought back my paranoia that I acquired because of galli's paranoia

I'd love it if my galli had a directional step so I can pretend to be a matador tbh

Actually, a torero. Matadors can kill the bulls

[sullen dragon]

?

What is blud waffling about

Galli has no issues with any playable u mentioned here except carno, and that is solely because carno is a small game hunter. You can still escape a carno by using the forest/jumping on rocks too and you can do it pretty easily since the carno isn’t much faster than you, just barely is. Galli excels at running, he’s the best at it. He doesn’t need to be fighting

[steep gazelle]

Exactly that. Galli has no problem running away from these, but they also have no problem dealing with Galli using what I mentioned

So what's the problem with giving the bleed back to Galli?

[sullen dragon]

He doesn’t need it is the point, him having the bleed just made mixpacking a much worse experience when galli was involved than when he wasn’t

If you can’t run, you should be able to fight, if you can fight, there’s no need to run. Now galli doesn’t need to fight he can just run

[golden coral]

I guess there's no real good game reason for it? Would it make sense, yes. Does it add immersion, sure. But does it actually help the galli in your average gameplay? Do you need the bleed in a given situation that you can argue for?

[viscid mica]

They infact do not

All it does is give galli a weapon that’s incredibly strong and makes it objectively more broken than omni pin ever will be

A solo galli with bleed could easily win a 1v1 with anything under 3 tons by simply bleeding them to death

[steep gazelle]

You say it as if giving Galli back his bleed, even if he's weaker than before, would turn him into a monster that kills anything

Since it literally won't change anything, it will just help Galli with some issues

[sullen dragon]

No it’s just that the cons outweigh the pros

And galli doesn’t need it.

[steep gazelle]

Who knows? Whether he has it or not doesn't change anything

Mixpacking will always be a problem whether Galli has bleed or not, that's not an argument

[sullen dragon]

If he doesn’t have it it doesn’t change anything about his gameplay but if he does have it mixpackz with galli are much more cancer because the galli can make the prey that’s the mixpack is chasing turn around constantly and if he doesn’t then galli will just bleed him to death. Right now that’s irrelevant because galli damage isn’t high so him trying to turn the prey every now and then rarely works

[golden coral]

What issues?

[golden coral]

I guess it would depend on the level of the bleed, you could give galli like, 1 bleed, just for the sake of "yes, sharp claws do cause bleed"

[steep gazelle]

No playable should be balanced with Mixpacking in mind. Not to mention that Galli have bleed will help deal with Sub rex now

[golden coral]

But, is there any actual situation that you can't just solve by going really fast?

[steep gazelle]

Sub Rex

[viscid mica]

Ya wanna know how galli deals with sub Rex’s? About a 20kmph speed difference

[steep gazelle]

Yes, a Sub Rex with 60km and galli with 49/55. 20km difference...

[viscid mica]

That’s not a sub Rex

That’s a juvi, and it cannot turn worth a dam

[steep gazelle]

Pre-Sub, but also at the end of Juv

[viscid mica]

Ya but it has that speed for like 3 ticks and loses it fast

Galli is having 0 issue with that growth stage

They are so easy to out manoeuvre

Galli has 0 use for bleed beyond trolling and harassing the small -mid tiers

[sullen dragon]

? What

Why should a galli deal with a sub Rex?

I’m not understanding the logic

[viscid mica]

^

For once I agree with this man

[steep gazelle]

The logic is that Galli having or not having bleed doesn't make much difference, but it will help him deal with problems like Rex when he reaches his 60km stage. Besides, as for Galli's fight against the other things, Galli will still lose if he fights against someone who knows how to play at least a little

[viscid mica]

It makes a huge difference

You can bleed stuff to death extremely easily

[sullen dragon]

How is a sub Rex 60kmh? Sub Rex reaches 40kmh with ambush speed max. He’s 33-34 kmh without ambush speed. I think ur talking about juvie Rex. Juvie Rex now reaches a max of 57kmh and u reach that when ur 1 ton, a galli is still faster. You used to reach 57kmh at 1.6 tons but that’s not the case anymore. Now u reach 57kmh at 1 ton and at 1.6tons ur like 42kmh

[indigo rain]

Just like carno and dilo, rex cant jump. Go into the forest and hop the logs.

[sullen dragon]

Rex never becomes faster than a galli, even when he reaches his max speed

[steep gazelle]

If these things leave a single Galli to kill her with bleed, then it was deserved

[viscid mica]

They actually slowed Rex down

[sullen dragon]

A lot. Max speed is 57 at 900-1ton then at 1.2-1.6 ton ur barely 42-45kmh

With terrible stamina, the worst in ur weight class

[steep gazelle]

Not to mention that the kick costs 5% stam to use, There must be something more to all this stam cost

Of course, if the cost is reduced to 3%, Bleed will not be very necessary

[sullen dragon]

Yeah ur just speaking into a void im sorry. Im just not seeing the argument

[viscid mica]

Just galli troll activity

It serves nothing but to allow gallis to destroy anything under 3 tons without any real consequences

[neon willow]

If it doesn't change anything, how does it help with Galli's issues? And if it does help with galli's issues, then it must be changing something?

Also, I'm sorry, but Galli is the definition of "putting all your eggs in one nest" in the sense that ALL of its identity is focused on identifying threats and running away early enough that it's not caught. Giving it the ability to put bleed on things reduces its need to run away, which is literally its entire identity, arguably even more so than Maia. It is literally the GOAT of running away and because it's so fast and agile it has no business doing bleed on creatures that have to chase to catch it when it already has enough speed and agility to evade basically everything (60 kph juvi/sub rex imo should just be nerfed... It's a juvi apex, it has no business being able to run as fast as galli)

Not saying it should be slow, but... It shouldn't be as fast as the fastest dinos in the game

[viscid mica]

^real

[dusky surge]

the only real reason one can give for galli having bleed is simple

"I want it to". Because there will never exist a situation where galli will need bleed. It has the best trot, the best sprint speed, the best herd-based ability, the best stamina pool in the entire game. It is not only equipped to escape any and everything, it beyond excels at it

Would I, personally like galli to have a small bleed? Sure, it'd make sense. But would I care if it never got it? No, because it's already equipped for literally every and anything the game ever throws at it

[elfin night]

Also the jump is goated

To evade things like carnos when you have something like a river or even some heights available

The horizontal distance you travel with a little hop is wild

[steep gazelle]

I say that it won't change anything between Galli and the other playable, like Carno and Omni, but it will change some things in Galli favor, like against a Rex. I don't know, I just want to be rewarded for knowing how to play and for the stam cost that is sweated in the kick. Although I think the best option is to decrease the kick stam cost to 2.5-3%

[broken comet]

a grown omni can bleed a galli, i nearly died to one if my sister and i didn't damage it enough, traumatic thrombosis saved my life

i think it took about 2 pounces to get me really low, i don't really remember tho

also, considering a cerato's bite force + the bacteria, i think that could possibly kill a galli, but i'm not sure, i've not tried before

i know a dibble can one or two shot a galli if full grown, though

[broken comet]

does that mean it's faster than a dryo?

[stark knoll]

It's way faster

[neon willow]

But arguably the problem in the galli-rex matchup is red, not galli. Rex's juvi speed being insane also negatively affects other matchups too. So while adding bleed to galli might balance the rex matchup, just reducing rex's top speed during growth will balance the same matchup as well as other matchups

[broken comet]

oh dang, that's bad if they decide to be mean to dryo's

[indigo rain]

Dryos slower than a lot of creatures tbh and gets iframe dodges. But it def needs burrowing to really be viable beyond stealth

[stark knoll]

It doesn't have iframes

[hasty coyote]

can confirm no I-frames, theres a funny bug where if you dodge the same time an omni pins you, you just start sliding off into the distance before dying to the pin

[neon willow]

Dryo is supposed to be able to escape to a burrow (similar concept as Herrera being slow and escaping to trees). I don't mind that concept except dryo doesn't have burrowing yet

[broken comet]

will they ever add burrowing?

[hasty coyote]

it is confirmed, just on the backburner atm

[broken comet]

ohh alright, that's good then!

[viscid mica]

Also also, galli does great damage with its attacks

(Galli does neary double omni bite damage with base sprinting kick)

[dusky surge]

i uh

i dont think that's true at all

[viscid mica]

@radiant shadow dragon species?

[viscid mica]

Go look galli do be slapping

Galli out dps’d no pounce omni

[slim dragon]

Probably a copy-paste ? Or AI generated ? Or both

Also he doesn't seem to know omni and dilo both already have alt-LMB attacks that makes them move forward

[dusky surge]

typically a result of google translate, often from chinese

[viscid mica]

Indeed…

[viscid mica]

Ahhhh

[hidden quest]

gotta love omnidroid guys

[mint star]

"dragon" is a term used in chinese languages in reference to dinosaurs

i know this because i have seen chinese players refer to random dinosaurs as "dragons" throughout the years

[steep gazelle]

Galli running and standing kick is 85 dmg

[viscid mica]

Ya omni bite is 50

[neon willow]

It's honestly kind of a clever use of language imo. I'm sure the first "dragon bones" people found all over Eurasia were in fact dinosaur fossils. It's probably just Google translate not realizing based on context that it is properly translated as dinosaur in this context

[hasty coyote]

Iirc it’s 65 unless it got shadow nerfed

(Or I just missed a change)

[viscid mica]

Base or alt

Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 65 and I forgot but my point stands

[steep gazelle]

65

[hasty coyote]

Base, though it’s probably the same for both.

[slim dragon]

no!!!! alt attacks often deal more damage than regular bites!!

[hasty coyote]

I know some do and some don’t. Like deino’s alt deals the exact same as its normal bite, though the animation is faster at certain angles so it has a higher dps

Haven’t tested it on stuff like Omni though so it could def be higher

[slim dragon]

I know for a fact stego's alt deals much more damage than its regular bite

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/primal-frown-angry-sad-chzqueef-gif-17811685

[viscid mica]

Alt bite on omni does do abit more

But I check galli does do about roughly 1.4x omni on base and alt

[viscid mica]

@woeful lotus they actually did by a tiny bit you get up to 60+ a decent bit faster now

[viscid mica]

@toxic wharf I’m pretty sure Rex currently heals faster

[woeful lotus]

60 still feels light for the amount of time it takes, almost everything becomes way heavier than that, like omni who will always be able to pin you

[viscid mica]

Omni is also less than 1/10 of your full weight thou

Rex is a apex apex’s take longer to get going but have a far higher peak it’s the trade off for size

[thorn mountain]

you cant be the best at every life stage

[viscid mica]

^

Rex already has a pretty solid start after the last buff within a hour you can easily be over 80kg and starting to hit your big bursts you just gonna play it smarter earlier on

[woeful lotus]

well what annoyed me was that i played like maybe 1h while doing my best to survive, and the second a juvi cera found me in the sanc (he could access too and was probably a recently spawned) i was just dead by default, as i couldn't outrun, fight or hide since he can come in sanc. But i can be wrong and it could be the goal for juvi rex

[viscid mica]

Well first of all don’t lingerie in sanc if you don’t got food, but tbf after an hour it def wasn’t a fresh spawn

You’d obliterate a fresh spawn as they are 20kg or so you’d be atleast 60 by than unless you had awful diet

[woeful lotus]

you sure cera start that light?

damn i was just very unlucky then

[viscid mica]

Ya but they get great diets and grow quickly

[toxic wharf]

Does it? That's cool

[toxic wharf]

Been playing Rex on Unofficial server and healing is painful (I know its completely different to the new Rex model)

[viscid mica]

Sir Rex is I. HT(unofficials have a broken version that it complete like HT

[eager saddle]

<@&933486433342222376> and here

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

"remove gastro but buff carni heal rates", yet nothing to compensate for the removal of tactile, despite the horrible costs of both maia and stego stam

[twilit seal]

Post isnt really about tactile, its about healing rates, you could lower stam costs on their attacks i guess, but there was a time tactile didnt exist and good players would just do fine, especially since they can alt with 0 stam now too

Its just about herbi heal rates being too high compared to carnivores despite having larger health pools

Its unfair, poorly balanced considering most herbis can one shot carnivores

[native urchin]

tactile is jsut as broken as gastro tbh, neither should be in the game, stego attack costs a lot of stam cause it deals insane dps, if u consider the stun as well, u get 3 power swing before the player can move again

[dusky surge]

crush costs 4%

literally all i have to say about that

[dusky surge]

i think the point is to dissuade carnivores from taking consistent risky fights, which i think it does well

meanwhile herbivores, who get hunted frequently, need healing to recover from consistent attacks

i'll be real, i get the design philosophy behind it

[twilit seal]

Thrash, flip, none have stam costs

[dusky surge]

yea, so why does stego cost 10% lol

[twilit seal]

Thats incredibly biased

[dusky surge]

how so

[native urchin]

16k dmg is not enough? craziest dps, no cooldown stun/knock

[twilit seal]

Because they can one shot said carnivores, have higher health pools already meaning their heal rates dont even have to be higher to heal the same amount, how come herbivores have no repercussions but carnivores that literally HAVE TO FIGHT to survive get the short end of the stick

Why is it always a skill issue on carnivore side but herbis can get away with anything

They equally need to be skilled to survive

Its just natural selection

Its up to the devs to keep the playing level equal

[dusky surge]

looking at numbers purely is a hysterically narrow viewpoint

one whiff is immediate murder on your stam

[twilit seal]

One whiff on a carni is death

Stego can still use its alts with 0 stam

Just dont whiff then its easy as that

[dusky surge]

lol no

who tf is dying after one whiff on any carni

that's an extremely funny statement

[twilit seal]

Stego is the most immortal dino in game if played right yet you see them drop like flies because they roleplay the small brain size incredibly well

[native urchin]

that made me giggle

[twilit seal]

One mistake, if you get hit, you die

Combined with desync that worsened over time its not always the players fault either

[dusky surge]

which carnivore is this?

[thorn mountain]

maybe because its a little small tier animal vs a apex?

[twilit seal]

Starting from teno up to trike, all herbis can one/2 shot: omni, dilo, cera, carno, (herra, troodon duh)

[keen plover]

Don't the larger carnivores do the same thing to smaller carnivores?

[dusky surge]

yes but let's not talk about that

thats fair because its carnivores

[thorn mountain]

me when the 3T rex does the exact same thing

[twilit seal]

They dont have higher heal rates like herbis

[dusky surge]

so???

[twilit seal]

This post was about how busted herbi heal rates are compared to carnis

[dusky surge]

herbis have lower speed, less bleed

bleed, btw, reduces healrate

and stam regen rate

[keen plover]

I don't mind carnivores healing slower, but yeah the heal time difference is felt lol...

[native urchin]

less bleed? 0.o

[twilit seal]

Less bleed??? Meanwhile teno, dibble and stego:

[keen plover]

Carno healing 💔

[native urchin]

there is no reason a trike should heal this fast, compared to a carno that u have to sit litterrally 25/30 minutes from red to blue (trike being just an example, all herbis heal way too fast compared to herbis)

[twilit seal]

Lets say both a carnivore and a herbi heal 1% of their hp per second, herbivores will still heal more health in the same time cuz of their hp pool

My issue is that carnivores heal even less % of their max hp per second

[dusky surge]

hp pool is determined by weight lol, it's not even like herbis are unfairly biased in the HP department, they're just heavy because that's typical for herbis

[twilit seal]

Yeah then their healing rates should be lowered lol

You are really reaching at the wrong spots im not even complaining about herbi hp pools

[dusky surge]

you literally were

[twilit seal]

No it was an example about healing rates

On spiro, before mutations, carnivore healing rates were genuinely fine

Devs intentionally nerfed them with the addition of gastro im fairly sure

And the funny thing is, herbis also have access to gastro

Which i always pick instead of tactile on teno or dibble

Cuz im not wasting my stam blindly

With elder system you can pick both

[native urchin]

u are telling me u dont whiff? crazy

[twilit seal]

You have no idea how difficult it is to hold my right click until a carnivore comes close enough to smack on stego

[dusky surge]

so why doesn't rex's crush cost 10% if the issue is "lol don't whiff"

[twilit seal]

My middle finger gets so tired

[dusky surge]

literally such a bizarre argument

[twilit seal]

Rex crush makes you stand still in a single spot for like 3 seconds if you miss while stego can swing every single second

[native urchin]

cause it doesnt do the dps dmg a power swing does?

[dusky surge]

only stego needs to cost 10% and no one else because uhhhhh I personally NEVER miss it (despite complaining about desync not 10 minutes earlier lol)

[twilit seal]

Stego also hs access to tactile

[dusky surge]

yea, it shouldnt

[twilit seal]

Rex doesnt have tactile lol

[dusky surge]

it should not have tactile, nor should it have that stam cost

best of both worlds

[twilit seal]

Thats a different point again, and inwouldnt mind that change

I wouldve made a different post about tactile

[rapid flume]

that's the point they've had the entire time

[twilit seal]

My issue is simply carnivore healing rates being horrid without gastro, and I want gastro removed

Lemme remove tactile from my post

If thats the issue

[keen plover]

I think that's fair tbh

[twilit seal]

And like I wouldnt want herbi heal rates to be nerfed even, I prefer if carni rates were buffed instead. Its the second option I proposed

After playing on unofficials without gastro enabled you feel the difference

[hasty coyote]

@twilit seal I think the main issue here is that you’re comparing small carnivores to big herbivores, rather than looking at the same size. Like yeah, Omni heals slower than trike, but it’s also less than 1/20th the size. If we were to compare Rex regen to pachy regen, then you would see that Rex heals much faster. Does that mean carnivore heal faster now? No, because size is what’s determining healing. If you look at dinos of the same size, their healing rates are roughly equal (though with some exceptions of course).

If we were to implement your idea, it would just go poorly in either direction. If we were to buff smalls like Omnis to heal 95hp/second like trike (like in your example), then no small tier would be able to even kill you, they physically lack the dps. Even if we were to buff it to a much smaller level like 15hp/sec for Omni, then it would be a terror to any other small tier. Like what is pachy supposed to do when the Omni it just heals itself like wolverine in under 30 seconds from any attack, meanwhile that pachy still takes 2-5 minutes to heal back up. Well what if we just apply it to all small tiers? Well now every small tier fight is just wolverine vs Deadpool, and trying to fight anything larger either insta kills you or physically can’t.

Well what if we nerf herbie heal rates? Well trike with 4.5hp/sec would take over 35mins to regen, and Rex would still be regenerating in like 5-10 mins. This doesnt really seem fair since trike has no agency on whether it gets to fight or not, so it’s heavily punished for something it has no control over. Meanwhile Rex isn’t punished that hard for something it has control over.

So I think our current heal rates are fine overall. If there’s a specific Dino whose healing rate is too high or low for its tier, then that would make sense to change. But a blanket buff or nerf just doesn’t work.

[twilit seal]

youre simply taking rex as a base for carnivore healing, when it is indeed like the only fast dino that heals fast. My complaint is about rest of the carni roster healing considerably slower compared to the herbi roster of equal size, teno heals twice or almost triple as fast as carno or cera. There is simply no argument justifying current heal rates given most of the carnivore roster dies in 1-2 hits (because herbis all stun their targets). Im not asking them to have equal heal rates all together, i dont want omni to reach full health in 2 minutes, im just asking for a buff, because they are simply too low with gastronomic regen existing, despite the fact that its available to herbivores as well which is a very good choice for second slot on teno and dibble for example, AND they have the high heal rates

i just dont understand how someone with an unbiased opinion can simply say: an omni, thats a one shot kill to anything, has to play its fights frame perfect, having a slower heal rate than a trike, that has 9.5k hp and has the fastest heal rate in game, is justified

[indigo rain]

• carno stuns/knocks down
• omni pins
• cerato stuns with vomit
• rex pins and knockdowns
• allo will pin
• deino grabs

Both herbivores and carnivores have access to hard and soft CC. Carnivores generally outnumber herbivores and generally outspeed herbivores. It only makes sense herbivores would heal fast to outlast and deter predators as their benefit in exchange.

[dusky surge]

its so funny how carnis have ALL of this but herbis are so much worse with like, basic knockdowns

reminder, rex has knockdowns ON TOP of the crush/pin

[indigo rain]

I play both sides of the coin for the record

And that too ill add that

I totally get that omni heals frustratingly slow, but thats likely on purpose because of its sheer agility compared to most other creatures. A hit has to feel like it matters. I even suggested ages ago that because omni takes so long to make larger kills that they are frequently stolen, its trot speed should be a bit quicker to allow it to migrate and roam more to compensate while not affecting combat directly too much

It would let it adapt and move on and get more opportunities. As it stands right now the muts work fine

[hasty coyote]

I’m taking Rex as the example because you used trike as the example, both have good heal rates.
Ime they heal about the same rate (generally around 5 or so mins to heal all non-locked hp, and like 10 to heal locked hp), though I haven’t fully tested to see. I do know Maia and pachy heal relatively fast, but not 2-3x that much of a similarly sized carnivore. If some carnivores are taking like 2-3x as long, then yeah that should probably be changed.

Also, if we look similarly sized dinos, they all kill each other just as fast. Omni will kill a pachy in 2 pounces while pachy generally takes 1-3 rams to get the leg fracture. Dilo can also just bite any small tier 1-3 times (night/day) and then spam clones to win. Teno v cera is also prob one of the more balanced 1v1s in the game.

The only time it becomes “I make a single mistake, I die” is when you are fighting something larger (namely one you can outrun easily) or things that you can also 1-tap back. Either way, the carnivore generally has the agency over the fight, so either pack up or hunt smaller targets. Fighting things of the same size means you and them can make roughly equal mistakes and have roughly equal heal rates. If you want to complain about something 1-tapping things, look at Omni itself being faster, just as agile, having nearly as much stamina, and pinning dryos along with any other small tier.

[twilit seal]

issue is more under the light when you compare similar sized herbis v carnis, pachy heals much faster than omni and dilo, teno and maia heal ACTUALLY 2-3x faster than carno and cera. My complaint is about those matchups. And carnivores having more numbers is just a lie lol, carno group limit is 3, cera is 5 now only recently, dilo is 4, omni is 7, and then we look at herbis: stego is 5, dibble is 6, teno is 7, pachy is 8? not sure, trike is 3 or 4 not sure either

going by your example, no omni gets a long enough pounce on a pachy to kill it if the pachy uses terrain, pachy also disables omni completely after 2hits, a single hit gives body fracture meaning omni DRAINS its whole stam bar if it tries to pounce

pachy is also 700 kg now on ht meanwhile omni is 450, but this isnt about omni or pachy, i dont care about their matchup

and dryo being a waste of a server slot, is flawed design because its slower than an omni

[twilit seal]

my comment about the pack limits was a reply to this mb

[dusky surge]

"dryo being a waste of a server slot"

lol, love the anti-fun mindset we got going lmao

[twilit seal]

its a fact you cant pull hypsi and dryo into arguments about balance lol

they are just not relevant, its just a speed thing because nobody expects a dryo to fight an omni

[dusky surge]

because they exist ouside the constant PvP hellscape this game's community seems to foster

so therefor they suck because I can't kill something with it

[twilit seal]

they just dont exist, because pvp is required for survival

[dusky surge]

it is not

[twilit seal]

thats the point herbis cant grasp

[dusky surge]

dryo and hypsi are inherently designed against that philosophy

[twilit seal]

they need to be equally skilled to fight off attackers, just as carnivores need to be skilled to hunt successfully

[twilit seal]

dryo is missing half of its mechanics

hypsi can climb

[dusky surge]

if a carnivore can't kill a hypsi or a dryo, lol that's just that they got hella duked

[stark knoll]

What part of that makes pvp required for them?

[twilit seal]

im exluding dryo and hypsi for that reason lol

pvp isnt required for them

[stark knoll]

So pvp isn't required for survival then

[twilit seal]

this is again, skill on hypsi and dryos part

[stark knoll]

Just as a blanket term

[dusky surge]

^

[stark knoll]

Obv larger carnivores should require pvp

[twilit seal]

ofc it is, whats a dryo or a hypsi going to do when confronted by attackers? its always pvp, its a multiplayer survival game

you cannot exclude pvp out of the games inherent structure

[stark knoll]

Oh I think we're just taking different definitions of pvp

[twilit seal]

dodging a carno as a dryo is also pvp

[stark knoll]

Since if you include "flee from all predators" as a pvp interaction (which it very well is) then yea

[twilit seal]

pvp doesnt mean you have to kill something

pvp means surviving too, player versus player

[stark knoll]

But a lot of people shorthand "pvp" as "fighting"

[twilit seal]

defending yourself is pvp too

[stark knoll]

Which is where I think the confusion came from

[twilit seal]

any player combt interaction is just pvp, i mean dodging a carno as a dryo like i said, is fighting essentially

[twilit seal]

thats why this isnt really wrong

maybe you mean "pvp" = "kosing"?

[stark knoll]

How do I phrase it....

A lot of people would take a dryo fleeing from a carno as avoiding pvp, in this case

But you could easily say that it's still a pvp interaction, depending on how you want to define it

[twilit seal]

yeah but its still somewhat skill in itself, because its a fight, and youre dodging a faster and deadlier attacker and succeeding, its pvp

[stark knoll]

It's just semantics for that yea

[twilit seal]

because a bad dryo, would run in a straight line and get rolled

but this is again straying from the point of my post

its all about equal size carnivores having incredibly low heal rates compared to herbivores

and about gastro being removed, and those rates being buffed

a carnivore, thats not a ptera or troodon or herra, must take gastro currently

deino for example, it takes over an hour to heal without cellular regen from red/orange to full hp

the only carnivore that has fast healing is rex rn

[stark knoll]

In which case I'd say that carnivores are typically the ones who control the engagement, and should inherently have longer regens compared to similar-sized herbivores, as the herbis tend to be slower/defensive

Not immensely longer, mind, and it's definitely something that has to be taken on a species-by-species basis

[twilit seal]

yeah but a carnivore needs to hunt, it simply cannot innitiate another hunt if it cant heal for the altercation, i guess that is realistic, but if we are going by realism, herbivores also shouldnt heal that fast

[hasty coyote]

Again, pachy and Maia do heal fast, but it’s not 2-3x as fast. Pachy is incredibly slow for its size, so it’s constantly forced to fight. Especially since it has to deal with carnos by fighting them, it makes sense for it to have a solid heal rate. Maia uses its hp to tank hits while it gets away, so it also makes sense for one of its main defenses to be ready. Unless the carnivores you mentioned take like 15 minutes just to heal base hp (which I’m 90% sure they don’t) it’s really not that much faster of a healing rate overall.

Also I never said carnivores always had more numbers, I said you can group up to pick off larger players rather than try to 1v1 them (when you really should avoid them 1v1). Also I wouldnt base it off group size either, the vast majority of people don’t even reach max group, and those that do almost always overpack anyway.

[twilit seal]

cera, omni, carno, all take much longer than 15 mins to heal

i wouldnt say "much", without cellular im sure its definitely over 20 mins

i can test each healing time when I have time

[twilit seal]

and I know you didnt argue about the group size, it was another person, and most people prefer to play on unofficials that stick true to group sizes

[hasty coyote]

Heal to full probably, but that’s locked health, something all dinos have to deal with.

[twilit seal]

yeah, which herbivores also heal faster

[neon willow]

Okay pause rq - what IS locked health? I never really understood

[hasty coyote]

Certain ones like pachy and Maia def heal it faster, but it’s def not that much faster

[twilit seal]

locked health is the healing you heal much slower compared to non combat damage you take, if you have been in consequent fights and take damage you get more and more locked health

[hasty coyote]

Basically like 20%ish of the damage you take is “locked health” which regens at a slower rate than normal damage. So if you keep taking damage, it will take longer and longer to heal back to full.

[twilit seal]

for example, if youve noticed, if you take fall damage, it doesnt take that long to heal to full

but if you get hurt to like, orange and below health, it takes a lot longer to heal

also im fairly certain bleeding attacks trigger it but dont quote me on that

[twilit seal]

teno, stego and trike also heal really fast, and it is def much faster, if theres a specific pair you wnat me to test i can

i can try teno and cera/carno for example, from 10% to full, without cellular regen

[neon willow]

Thank you both!

[hasty coyote]

If you want to then sure. I’m down to see their heal rates.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

i wish so badly i could upvote this

[steep gazelle]

Pachy has a healing power very close to that of Omni and Dilo, if not the same. But Maia recovers extremely quickly, as that's kind of part of her style

But the Trike? This beast Simply recovers from red to green in 5 minutes of rest xd

I've already recovered from the yellow with the screen full of blood stains to the green without any blood stains on the screen Standing up and in less than 5 min

It's kind of ridiculous

[twilit seal]

yeah pachys healing rate isnt that good

[hasty coyote]

Yeah trike in particular I can def see getting a nerf, so long as it and Rex stay in line.

[faint robin]

Dibble heals like trash unless they changed it

[haughty grotto]

@timber tusk when did you take that vid?

Looks before this update

[timber tusk]

At like 11:20. I took the vid and immediately posted it.

[maiden temple]

Omg did pachy lose all nice colours on HT? It's so ugly

Or.. did the colours change positions and now all my skins are dead nooo

My teno was uglified too

Dibble, cera, trike, maia, dryo, and rex kept their colours while the rest is bland and same-y. Afk flipping my desk

[haughty grotto]

I think you gotta utilize momentum etc
You can defo go way faster than that

Youre not flying right

[timber tusk]

That’s not the point. The basic gliding speed used to be reasonable, but now it’s down right sluggish, to the degree that it looks odd. How is it staying airborne while that slow? Why did they make the map traveling playable move like this?

[haughty grotto]

Well yes but there's no reason to move at the base gliding speed deliberately
Its like saying why is trot so slow on ground playables when u have a sprint button
They just made flying a bit more active if you want speed, which is fine
Overall this is way better imo

Yea the base gliding slow speed does look goofy but practically you're never actually going to be that slow

[timber tusk]

You do t play Ptera much, do you? Half the fun of Ptera, and my main gameplay loop for it for my entire time in Evrima has been gliding LONG distances to visit different locals. Fly from South Plains to West Rail, then all the way up to the north coast faster than any other playable in the game. That will be impossible at these speeds, and with the constant dropping out of glide thing they added. I can’t even get all the way down river like this.

It kills the freedom that Pteranodon has enjoyed for the entire life it has had in game up until now and glues it to the waterways. This isn’t just a nerf, it’s basically an overhaul of the animal’s whole playstyle.

Up until Trike, it had slow stamina but the highest speed in the game and fairly complex momentum. I thought I knew what they wanted with the changes lately, but this low speed and the constant drop off of its hight baffles me.

[haughty grotto]

I just think it's different, not worse.
Clearly you played ptera a lot and liked the old one, which is why you find this change not to your liking. I found ptera to be very one dimensional and bland, so for me this change is very welcome.
I did not play it that much before, but this makes me want to now.

I mean, im not against a base gliding speed increase. It does look goofy at the moment.
But overall I'm enjoying ptera much more than before

[dusky surge]

i love the new momentum thing

build up height to transition into momentum, which lets you move WAY faster than you ever could before, all on top of a satisfying dive

[haughty grotto]

exactlyyyyyy

[waxen lance]

I like that the momentum carries further now but I think it needs a more gradual decrease, you kinda go rlly fast and then just suddenly lose all of ur speed

[fossil gazelle]

I know the devs won’t add this but what about having different looks on the playables for people who have different playstyles like rex for example if you wanna play as a bully that scares off other carnivores from their kills you would have a bulkier look than a generic Rex while if you wanna be a pursuit predator you would have a more leaner athletic look

[indigo rain]

They did discuss cosmetics at some point like broken horns on trike and other stuff. Super low priority though in the grand scheme until mechanics are in and bugs are fixed.

[timber tusk]

Yeah, to be fair, things they’ve added to the movement are neat, and I am a big fan of its new fishing. They even improved its stamina usage, which we’ve hoped for for forever.

It’s JUST the heavy nerf to its speed that I am upset about. That was previously its greatest strength after all.

[timber tusk]

I’m gonna have to try this, because even with the pre-trike momentum, spending a bunch of stamina to climb was too costly.

[timber tusk]

That’s be cool to add along with permanent scars across the board.

[timber tusk]

#general-feedback message
I had a thought yesterday that we absolutely could have the best of both. We might get both anyhow when Quetz comes along, but I would actually love to have two Pteranodon sized flyers with wildly different playstyles: one fast gliding traveler and one Apex of the Sanctuary Zones.
Probably way too late for them to actually add a whole new playable and roll back all of Ptera’s speed changes, but there would be zero down sides to having just MORE pterosaurs.

Because I want fast gliding back, but I also don’t want to rob others of the playstyle that they are starting to enjoy.

[haughty grotto]

I do know that this flying mechanic change was designed with quetz in mind, not just cause they wanted to change ptera randomly
I agree with @waxen lance that momentum should not be lost that fast, so that good stam and momentum management can be used to traverse the map better and make up for slow base gliding

I don't think there's any other flyers planned except quetz

[slim dragon]

Haast eagle, Argentavis

[hasty coyote]

Neither of those are confirmed

[timber tusk]

Planned? No, only Quetz. That’s why I’m gonna keep bugging them to add more. Just two is a pitty when they’re putting so much work into the mechanics.

Dsungaripterix Weii has been my favorite “add this guy please,” but now I’m adding Albadraco to the list. Who would dislike more Pterosaurs??

[hazy phoenix]

#balance-feedback message

I don't get it either, and I kinda hate how quickly it kicks in! Ptera's getting slower and slower and it makes me sad, and the reduced turn radius is a bit frustrating to work with when they're making the forests denser. I find a lot of the fun of ptera (for me, at least) is in maneuverability and speed!

[hazy phoenix]

More pterosaurs would be delightful. having a tiny, mid sized, and large sized pterosaur would be such a dream...

[slim dragon]

They are
I just confirmed them

[vale brook]

classic bubulblu

[viscid mica]

<@&933486433342222376> he everywhere

[thorn mountain]

This poor Kyzen dude

[viscid mica]

Fr

[timber tusk]

I need to draw up an Albadraco recommendation now. I made the Tropeognathus/Santadactyl recommendation back when people were complaining about too much AI, and it did seem to slow down the servers at the time. But now I’m loving the idea of Albadraco as a spin-off to Pteranodon, so we can have the best of both flyers.

Tho Dsungaripterix Weii will always be my favorite little weirdo. We got clams, and that’s fully half of what of what I recommended for adding Weii.

[dusky surge]

ill be real the only extra flier i'd wanna see is just a herbivore one lol

a lot of other fliers here are just more of alt skins for ptera

[slim dragon]

Tupandactylus

[tranquil pawn]

@woeful lotus
#balance-feedback message
Those are good things. Rex should not be beating anything in its weight class as a juvenile, and it absolutely should be brutal.

[woeful lotus]

Understandable

[dusky surge]

@inland cairn #balance-feedback message

allo is already confirmed to be slower but have the same murdersprint feature as rex, allowing it a burst of speed that can make it faster than cera

also cera being the same speed and stam as allo would be horrible for cera

since allo is much larger and more powerful

[inland cairn]

I see, but i cant explain my point because language barrier. i used translator

hope that you coul see what my point was

[woeful lotus]

Considering how big allo is to cera, I don't think making cera faster would bully that much the allo

[lunar crater]

comparing a single allo to a group of ceras makes no sense a pack of allos will always fwin from a pack of ceras due to the stat difference making allo invulnerable as solo against a full pack of ceras makes no sense

@inland cairn

[inland cairn]

I appreciate your efforts to explain this to me. Honestly, I didn't know that the speed and overall statistics of the Allosaurus had already been announced. I didn't even know about the faster sprint think . But it was just a suggestion that came to mind when we were talking about it with friends. Just a suggestion that would probably ensure more realistic interaction (rare fights between these species) as it was in reality. And I understand that compromises have to be made in the game to make it enjoyeble.

[slim dragon]

You will not prevent two carnivores from fighting

In fact, you cannot prevent two players paying as anything from fighting each other

[inland cairn]

That is true, you cant dictate players how they should play, my point was that these two fought extremly rarely. Maybe if they didn't have each other in their diet, it would be enough. (i dont know if they have each other in diets, i dont have hordetest instaled)

[slim dragon]

It wouldn't lol
Isle players aren't that complex in their behavior

See (thing) = try to kill (thing)

[dusky surge]

dietary restrictions won't stop the sheer bloodlust of bigger animal seeing smaller animal

[inland cairn]

Real

[dusky surge]

if the allo sees the cera, and it knows cera is basically the same speed and stam, it can just run at the cera until its exhausted then easily kill it

[inland cairn]

As i told. Compromises have to be made, and this could be the compromise

[slim dragon]

How's that a compromise ?

That's just making allo needlessly faster and way more endurant than it should be

[inland cairn]

Im talking about diets

[slim dragon]

Oh yeah
Well diets don't change anything

They didn't prevent players from killing each other until now, idk why that would change all of a sudden

[inland cairn]

Yea it won't stop them, but it won't encourage them either.

[slim dragon]

Making allo slower than cera is still a better solution if you don't want allos driving ceras to extinction

[inland cairn]

When i think about it from more angles, youre right.

But i dont see a reason to have each other in their diets

[slim dragon]

They shouldn't

[stark ether]

Yeah, carnivores eating carnivores is uncommon in general. Would be good for them not to be on each other’s diets.

If anything, the relationship between allo and cera will be pretty darn similar to lions (allos will have the burst speed and stat advantage) and hyenas (cera will have the long distance speed advantage) irl

They’ll both try to kill eachother given the opportunity, obviously. Even though hyenas and lions don’t typically eat eachother.

If an allo sees a cera within ambush range, it’ll probably attack.

If a group of ceras see an allo, especially an allo on a body, they’ll probably attack.

And because it’s a video game, they’ll also just attack for funsies even if you made them strictly herbivores.

[dusky surge]

@young estuary #balance-feedback message

stego already takes the most headshot damage in the entire game and gets absolutely piledriven by both trike and rex why would it possibly need this

[keen plover]

All I saw was a difference in attack rates there lol.

[slim dragon]

This has to be the dumbest fight I've ever seen lol

[dusky surge]

i dont even know what the point being proven is

1300HP vs 6000HP

300 damage per bite vs 75 damage per bite (given both are headshotting)

20 bites to kill stego vs 18 bites to kill carno

brother, the stego has the overall advantage still

the issue is you have a small game hunter punching over 4 times its weight

its like cheetahs getting upset because the elephant roams fearlessly around it

[young estuary]

Indeed

But like why does it take 7 bites from a fully grown deino tho

thats the real question

im pretty sure it used to be like 5 before

[slim dragon]

Because Deino has somewhat low biteforce to compensate for its very strong lunge

[keen plover]

Like 4 years ago

[slim dragon]

Stego is, proportionally to its weight, the squishiest dino in the game

Because it is the only one to have a damage multiplier over 1.5x on its head

[young estuary]

7 bites from deino is still crazy

[slim dragon]

Deino can also kill stego in a single lunge if the stego is swimming
Elder deino doesn't even need to wait for the stego to go for a swim

[dusky surge]

"deino has a strangely proportionally low biteforce"
"nerf stego"

like i dont understand why you didn't try to address the deino thing before going and nerfing stego even further

[young estuary]

ye but i like using balance after adults instead of elders

[slim dragon]

When in doubt, nerf stego (and buff cera)

[young estuary]

Speaking of

why was cera even buffed?

[cosmic pelican]

Devs are probably trying to make it not a walking burger for allo

Too bad allo will just pin it regardless

[eager saddle]

We love pin we love pin we love pin

[soft mantle]

@young estuary this game is known to favor herbivores in unhealthy manners just so people play herbis instead of creating interesting and fun gameplay loops for people to actually enjoy playing herbis more than carnivores

[thorn mountain]

@supple kite its not hitboxes its desync two different issues

[viscid mica]

@young estuary stego takes 2x hs damage

Most only take 1.5 or less due to armoured heads

Also that’s a prime stego and your not even FG

Bro had health to spare

ALSO ALSO you weren’t hitting hs

Your head was far too far into the body you was doing bs damage

Strong head hitbox is tiny your face needs to be physically hitting the head otherwise you won’t get hs hits

Tbh that clip is just a experienced stego trolling you cuz he realized you didn’t know how much hp and bf a stego has to play with

[wary cloak]

Ptera needs better night vision because at night currently if it is even cloudy your basically unable to do anything because you cant see a thing not to mention if its raining your literally blind

[crystal stream]

Oops I put it in the wroung channel

[crystal stream]

This might seem as if I just want carno to be stronger but please take it as more then that for a while I have noticed a huge increase in carnos probably because it’s one of the largest carnivores currently and that’s fine but Carno is just a extremely un fair dinosaur right now before Carno was 1300 it was much more balanced from a ecosystem and gameplay perspective the current Carno is broken in ht and envrima going around having near infinite Stam being able to outrun everything in the game while also being able to roll anything smaller then it and be able to pretty much turn on the spot made this thing way to overpowered. By making it smaller ppl thought it would nerf it but all it did was make it more annoying. animals like cera and teno who originally had fun and intense matchups are now gone instead we have packs of carnos running around killing any cera within a 50 mile radius by just going back and forth and hitting it. At least before as a cera you had the chance to dodge and get around and attack but now Carno turns so fast it’s going to hit you no matter what. As much as I love Carno and want it to be strong this is not how I would personally take it instead I would revert it back to it’s earlier states give it a headbutt similar to Mia’s or dibbs and by standing still and clicking the ram button to allow it to do a headbutt on the spot but make it not spammy Carno should feel bigger to it is the meat eating bull for a reason

[dusky surge]

"Carno should feel bigger to it is the meat eating bull for a reason"

I don't know man it's kinda perfectly falling into "meat eating bull" territory based on this

Also saying cera is getting steamrolled as if 1800kg carno didn't do that INFINITELY better is very funny

Against 1300kg carno, cera can get a LOT more hits and damage in, and it very much becomes a proper matchup, as opposed to carno running back and forth, knocking it down repeatedly, and doing this until cera just melted because charge did 350 damage

you thinking carno's downsize was meant to be a nerf is fundamentally misunderstanding the point, and it's not just you that misunderstood

carno was meant to be rebalanced into a small game hunter, which by your message, it achieved very well

[glass crag]

Maybe increase the carno bleed, make Carno more vulnerable to prolonged fights, but still efficient at killing smaller prey.

[dusky surge]

carno already has no bleed res, and they already did the "take extra bleed" thing, it was very unnecessary and unfun

[glass crag]

Yeh that’s fine.
Just seems strange to hear a carno player wish for a small nerf 😂

[viscid mica]

Carno is still bugged with minigun charge in HT so I get it it’s a wee op atm

[maiden temple]

It was hilarious, one pounce and you had to be stationary

[viscid mica]

This is inaccurate

[frosty heart]

@tight cove Interesting, do you have any arguments?

As someone who likes Diablo, I see that he is unbearably OP

[tight cove]

1.3 tons for dibble is too small and would make it unviable especially considering that allo is right around the corner and weighs 2.8 tons

and in the HT cera weighs 1.4 tons and could very reliable solo a dibble

[frosty heart]

Not necessarily, this is the weight of the cerato and it will have its own means of dealing with allo.

[tight cove]

a cera would be able to solo it consistently at that size, also keep in mind that if a species isnt viable solo then ppl wont play it often thus leading to less ppl to group with

[frosty heart]

Even though the Diablo is the same weight, its weapons more than compensate, and the Diablo's exaggerated durability is certainly one of the reasons why they are now unnecessarily increasing the Cerato's durability.

[frosty heart]

I disagree, that's true for species that are completely weak like Ptero.
I see groups of troodons and omnis frequently, and those are extremely weak when alone.

dillo too

And this role of being a more solitary ceratopsian would fall to Styracosaurus to play.

Dibble - herd
Styraco - small groups/solo

[tight cove]

that is true, but i believe that is because those small tiers grow fast, and are deisgned with group play in mind to be effective more in a group than solo, and honeslty dilo is excluded from this list because dilo is capable to survive solo since its special ability can be used fine on its own and its fast enough to escape most threats.

[tight cove]

i like this idea but i dont think it could work with the expanding roster, becuase small ceratopisnas will be easy prey to cera and allo

[frosty heart]

But reducing the size of the diabolo would also result in faster growth.

[tight cove]

lets take for example teno and kentro, these two animals while around 1.3-1.6 tons have multiple different attacks from all diresctions and are decently fast and agile enough so they can handle multiple threats, while ceratopsians arent as agile and can only attack from one direction

[frosty heart]

But these will be group animals, they will have good places to nest and grow quickly. You and your friends would be born in one and quickly be grown up and dealing with predictions organically.

[tight cove]

how fast would it grow?

[frosty heart]

Considering a standard growth rate, a similar pace to cera, teno or carno, possibly even intermediate or faster depending on the diet

[frosty heart]

A lone ceratosaurus is instantly doomed to death as soon as it is seen by 2 or 3 carnos.

[tight cove]

teno is completely viable solo so it works better in a group, and i assume the same with kentro since stego is also completely viable solo as well.
my point is that is dibble is 1 something tons its not gonna be viable solo so it will be hard to find groups to play with since a lot of ppl WON'T play it simply because it cant survive by yourself

[tight cove]

ok, this could work

[frosty heart]

A lone Dillo seen by one or more Carnotaurus is also doomed
As someone who really enjoyed playing Diablo, I can say that this led me to it; it's too big > it loses agility
It's too slow to defend itself alone, and when more than two gather, it becomes immortal

[tight cove]

I guess, but you could also make that argument that since cera has so many abilities, plus great agility it could survive 2 carnos depending on the fight location, but you could also make this same argument for diablo too but the thing is diablo just doesnt have the same agilty,speed, or the abilites as a cera so at 1.3 tons it would be much harder.

[frosty heart]

A smaller, more agile Diablo with more promising bleeding, damage, and head protection.

With accelerated growth, it seems much more attractive than the current Diablo, which is just a matter of gathering a maximum of 4 and begging for interactions with other players

[tight cove]

are you talking about current diablo? this is not true, current diablo can definitely fight more than 1 carno at the same time

[frosty heart]

ohh i mistake

dilo*

[tight cove]

would it be as fast as a cera or slower or faster?

[frosty heart]

You could hatch from a hidden nest, quickly grow with your friends, and when you're sub-adults/adults you'll still have natural behavior. Predators will have enough resources to be interested in tracking and attacking herds of dibbles, something that never happened with the current Diablo.

And doing this paves the way for the emergence of the Styraco, which would be 3 tons, but more designed to face animals like Sucho Alberto in 1v1 combat.

[frosty heart]

Similar speed, just a little slower.

However, the dibble would still be superior to the cerato in a 1v1.
However, the cerato would have a chance to defeat it with a surprise attack or with a numerical advantage

[tight cove]

you do know unless the devs would drastically downsize allo, allo would slaughter dibble right?

allo is bigger and faster

[tight cove]

i meant to respond to this

in my mind even if you buff dibbles agilty if its still slower than cera and allo, it cannot survive in the ecosystem

[indigo rain]

A competent cerato pack can rinse a herd of diablos and they weigh far less. Ava also is likely going to be around 1 ton so if you want a smaller ceratopsian we not only have Ava but also Proto for those roles. We don't need a third. Diablo simply seems out of place along with maia and stego because we don't have larger carnivores in yet. Alberto, Allo, Sucho, Bary, and likely others all would be similar or heavier than diablo.

[frosty heart]

Not necessarily. Diablo would be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 fight, however the Diablo I'm proposing here doesn't deal less damage than the current Diablo, nor does it have less bleeding.

Diablo has very well-positioned horns, so it would deal considerably high damage for its size.

But it would also be a glass cannon, similar to the Omni.

The Allo would be to Diablo as the Carno is to the Omni/Dillo

[frosty heart]

Did a group of ceratosaurus kill a herd of diabloceratops?

[indigo rain]

I did with some friends i play with. We took on 3 diablos as 4 and won with no casualties

[tight cove]

I've done it and seen it happen multiple times, its possible thx to ceras ridiculous charge bite dmg, agility, body buff, and eat to heal plus when a dib vomits u get another free bite

[frosty heart]

You would call that an extraordinary event, not an ordinary one; something like that is an extreme exception. I've often seen a single Diablo kill three Ceratos.

Gastro mutation causes ceratos to kill even Trinceratops in groups.

[tight cove]

i think charge bite does 300 dmg at least, it might actually do more than that, so with 4 charge bites a dibble that weighs 1.3 tons would be damn near dead at that point and have the wounded status effect

[thorn mountain]

ive done it 😛

[indigo rain]

Your exposure also doesnt make it the standard. Ive been killed as a diablo by 2 when i was caught out half grown. Likewise the art you referenced above is alberto, a larger predator, so that tells me diablo is just waiting for larger preds

[tight cove]

people dont want to be forced to play in a group to avoid getting killed instantly, not even omni suffers from this

[thorn mountain]

balancing something around groups is not the way you balance

that is what makes something useless for example pachy for two years.

[tight cove]

at least omni has the agily to avoid carnos & it can jump on rocks to avoid them

[indigo rain]

^

[frosty heart]

The point is that Diablo isn't meant to fight animals of that size; the role you're referring to belongs to Styraco, who actually possessed his 3Ts.

Diablo was always conceived as a social ceratopsian.

[tight cove]

cera has a ton of abilites to let it survive carno encounters, for ecample, fast swim spee, alt attacking in water, great agility, etc...

[thorn mountain]

we will prob not even have sty atp

[indigo rain]

Styraco is not confirmed in the final roster as far as I am aware. And the roster is locked.

[tight cove]

exactly

theres a reason you dont see pachys often on the live branch, they is a trerrible state rn

[thorn mountain]

exactly

literally as a solo cerato I killed 4 of them and still lived

people wont play something that needs people to make it balanced thats just dumb and favours discord groups

[frosty heart]

Discarding the Styraco would be a huge mistake; it's a perfect dinosaur for more solitary players.

This current Diablo will never fight predators like Sucho, Alberto, etc., the way it should.

[thorn mountain]

solos will never play something like dibble because nobody will be dibble because they are quite literally forced to find a group in this suggestion otherwise they are complete fodder

[tight cove]

interesting

[thorn mountain]

its not meant to fight sucho! sucho is a sub apex its like 2X the size of allo not even sty would fight that!

[golden coral]

They could probably still make both diablo and styraco fight same size enemies, just in different ways

[frosty heart]

Omni and Troodon are useless on their own as well.

[indigo rain]

I know magy and mono are in. But ive only seen players talk about sty

[golden coral]

Diablos might fight it in a more cooperative way, while styraco could be more like deino in a sense, doing just fine on their own but still benefitting from a friend

[thorn mountain]

they arent really, they just do better in groups

[frosty heart]

?

[indigo rain]

Omni and troo are agile and fast enough (...ignore troo baby...) to escape

[thorn mountain]

also basing off estimates of sty it would literally still get folded by a alberto or sucho

[frosty heart]

Carno sweeps the floor with these, Dillo is the one most harmed by this, too.

[golden coral]

Also, are omni/troodon unviable alone, are there any 1v1 encounters they can't reasonably handle, especially during their best time (day/night)? Can they find food/scavenge well enough to survive and grow?

[thorn mountain]

carno believe it or not is a small game hunter, it is literally built to hunt those types of animals

[golden coral]

It might not be fun or engaging to be a solo troodon or omni, since they're heavily built as pack critters, but still, in order to get a pack or herd, you need to be able to survive on your own to find others

[frosty heart]

And I don't deny that in any way.

[tight cove]

i will agree being solo as those dinos is rough, but it isnt UNVIABLE, you can survive hunting juvis and galli's and they both have high agilty and speed to survive and can both jump to avoid threats.

[thorn mountain]

Nadder, in real life your idea makes sense but its a game, people have free will on what to play do you think they would go for the weaker animal that needs a group to survive or do you think they would pick the better option (in your case sty) that is pretty much better in every way?

[tight cove]

true

[thorn mountain]

if you had to choose between a pachy and a teno what would you pick? Probably the teno as it can defend itself while being able to flee and fight

[golden coral]

There's nothing wrong with the idea of making styraco more built for solo life, and diablo more for herd life, but both need to be viable solo in the first place

[thorn mountain]

exactly

[frosty heart]

Can a Ceratosaurus live alone? If it’s spotted by 2 or 3 Carnos, it’s dead.

[golden coral]

Most things, if spotted by multiple others, tends to die

[tight cove]

pachy is a perfect example of a playable that isn't really viable solo, its not that fast, not that agile, low hp, and its special ability is bad and can be easily avoided or outright tanked.

[golden coral]

Unless you can just outrun, you're going to be in trouble at that point, no matter what you play as, given that the other critter is powerful enough to take you on

[thorn mountain]

it has ways to escape. The jungle, the river etc and if it has a corpse it can atleast defend itself and maybe make one or two die, and as erik said yea most things when spotted by more things it will die

[golden coral]

A solo rex meeting a pair of rexes isn't going to go well for the solo rex most of the time I'm pretty sure

[frosty heart]

Different gameplay styles, one is good for playing solo, in a duo, or a trio, while the other is meant for gathering many friends to play together.

Sorry for the delay in replying to everyone, I need to translate everything several times. lol

[thorn mountain]

so if I wanted to play dibble as a solo can I just not?

because its not built for solo play?

[frosty heart]

If a slower pace of conversation is possible, I would be grateful.

[thorn mountain]

I type fast

[tight cove]

all good

[thorn mountain]

but yea alg

[golden coral]

You could still design them both for solitary vs herd life, as long as they can survive solo in 1v1 encounters just fine, be it by fighting or running or possibly hiding. And don't worry about responses, take your time, I'm not so much arguing anyway as pointing things out.

[frosty heart]

Yes, just like the Omniraptor has a similar size to the Dilo, but twice the size of the group. The dillo is for players who handle small groups better, and the Omniraptor is good for grouping with many friends.

[thorn mountain]

I can still enjoy something like troodon or omni even without a group, I can still survive just fine, but a dibble of what you describe just wouldnt be able to do that, maia is also a animal that usually needs a herd but it still can fend for itself and can still escape when needed

[thorn mountain]

you still need to allow something to atleast be fun even as a solo it needs to be able to flee what it cant fight and fight what it cant flee, the reason dibble is so 'op' in is because nothing we have ingame as of right now can actually fight it, the largest carnivore we have besides rex and deino is cerato, cerato is in no way meant to be fighting diablo because dibble is a midtier, dondi has already hinted at a potential dibble size decrease to maybe two tons, that range is good for solo play and for group play.

[frosty heart]

The Dibble I'm advocating for would only have significant difficulties in 1v1 fights against Allo.

It would be lighter, but would have high damage and bleeding. Its speed and agility would increase and compensate, meaning it would still handle Ceratos well in 1v1 or 1v2 situations.

And escaping Apex would still not be a problem.

It would only have a bigger problem with animals like Allo, just as Dilo struggles with Carno.

[thorn mountain]

1.3T dibble would get insta pinned by allo

anyway im going to bed its 2:20am goodbyes

[frosty heart]

Thank you for the conversation.

[frosty heart]

cerato, carno, and many others will also be

The dibble would have increased speed, matching that of the cerato, so it could outrun the allosaurus if it saw it in time. Its trot and stamina would also be more interesting. However, if an allosaurus ambushes you and you're alone, you're in big trouble.

But that's not so different from being caught by a sub-adult T-Rex.

Stego also has little chance against Rex in a 1v1.

I would make that deal anytime.

I would replace the current Diablo:

It's bad alone (easily destroyed by Dilos, Omnis, Ceratos)
It's rarely attacked organically (a group of Diablo is actually tracked and attacked)

With a Diablo that:

Alone it's weaker, but playing in a group is fun, its agility provides a good defensive experience, it's smaller and grows faster, you make a nest and quickly everyone is already getting big.

[indigo rain]

Id say just wait for ava because you are effectively just making a strictly herbivore ava out of diablo with that, and ava can hide in burrows and is theoretically an omnivore in its concept. A 1.3t diablo would get decimated by tenos. It would have to be faster to survive, and at that size those stubby legs would look rather silly moving that fast

[frosty heart]

Avaceratops is a try-hard dinosaur; replicating that concept here in a satisfactory way wouldn't be worthwhile

proto, I believe it will only be AI

[indigo rain]

Quite the opposite actually was the original concern. But the devs have stated they wouldnt put so much work into ava for it to be only AI. Proto will dig burrows and naturally be able to drink salt water, so it will be a coastal herbivore to flesh out the ecosystem at the edges

[sullen dragon]

#balance-feedback message

@icy blaze what “bigger” herbivores are we talking about?

[icy blaze]

Teno

[sullen dragon]

Juvie Rex doesn’t beat a teno wym

[icy blaze]

Saw a video of a young rex being able to pin a teno

[sullen dragon]

When was this

[icy blaze]

Didnt pay attention on the date tho

[sullen dragon]

Juvie Rex has gotten major nerfs recently

He can’t pin anything bigger than him even slightly or even slightly lower than him

[icy blaze]

Didnt read about it. Where can i find it

Imo he shouldnt even pin anything the same weight. It doesnt make sense

[sullen dragon]

#announcements message

[sullen dragon]

Doesn’t even do this anymore

[icy blaze]

Why did i not see this. Thanks i will read

[dusky surge]

@blissful geode #balance-feedback message

This is such a disgusting overnerf to the thrash attack and ceratopsians in general it isn't even funny.

First of all, NO animal should have any attack worth 10% or more stamina, it's genuinely bad enough already on stego. It's extremely unfun to have your stamina efficiency melted because one attack decided to be obnoxiously overpriced and all it does is force yet another creature to rely on tactical endurance to be viable.

Secondly, thrash attack already has you completely locked in place more than any other attack in the game, it's EXCEPTIONALLY punishable if misused, which is cost enough.

Thirdly, you aren't stopping the ability for herbivores to chase things down at all, since thrash is an execution move. All you're doing is ENSURING these animals suck exceptional ass at defending themselves outside of a 1v1 scenario, more than they already do.

Lastly, there genuinely is nothing that warrents this nerf besides "rex got balanced to no longer be the most absolutely broken animal in the game, punish dibble and trike for this". Dibble is literally already rex food and has gotten pretty painful nerfs this HT, so I genuinely don't know WHY you're nerfing it more than it already is, and trike genuinely doesn't need this for any good reason, since rex can still dispatch of trike if played well and into an ambusher-oriented playstyle (which rex should be doing)

[sullen dragon]

Rex losses 10% stam when crush is used

It’s not just a stego problem

[dusky surge]

it does not, it's 4%, i've played rex

[sullen dragon]

It’s not 4%. I tested it with adult rex

I lost 10% stam every time I used crush

[dusky surge]

i'll test again i guess, but i'm almost certain it has been 4% for as long as rex has existed

[sullen dragon]

When did you test it btw

[dusky surge]

like... before the most recent wipe

like on the day of the wipe

[sullen dragon]

Interesting

I mean I don’t think dibble thrash should cost stamina Ngl. Trike thrash on the other hand wouldn’t hurt costing 4%-7% stamina when used

[dusky surge]

eh, i dont like it personally

i dont see the value in it at all

just feels like nerfing trike for the sake of it

all because rex isn't OP anymore

[blissful geode]

I see where youre coming from but for an execution attack like you say, you basically have no other time to use it other than when you missclick or when youve knocked or stunned your opponent, execution moves cost a lot of stamina because well, theyre execution moves, rex crush cost a lot of stam for a reason, stego power swing costs stam for a reason. before, rex was very op, being able to 1v2 adult trikes if the trikes were mid and rex was good, i just find it unfair how such a powerful attack shouldnt also be stamina costly

[dusky surge]

stego powerswing stam is disgusting on its own, it should not be treated as an example of how to balance creatures

[dusky surge]

logged on just now to test

its still 4%

[sullen dragon]

I see

I probably thought it’s 10% stam drain cuz I ran when I used it

Run —> use it —> check stam

[dusky surge]

why wouldnt you test it from a standstill if you wanted the actual cost lmao

[sullen dragon]

Good point. Ig cuz you never really use crush standing still and always use it while running

[blissful geode]

True but you can't have op herbivores stay op forever, plus, literally every herbivore has Tactile, sure the stam drain is bad, but it's a powerful attack capable of 4 or 5 shotting a rex if hit in the face, maybe for the sake of rex the stam cost on Stego should be lowered, but that doesn't change trike, it's a powerful animal, not everything should always go the herbivores way, it's like the one period of time where herbivores complained that carnivores got up too fast after getting stunned, now Raptor looks like it's taking a nap whenever it gets knocked down. It's just an example. Herbivores were powerful and still are, but don't forget they often come in herds, and there will be fewer and fewer rexes especially with the nerfs it got.

[dusky surge]

I genuinely don't think it's OP, like, at all. Stego in my eyes is honestly rather weak, especially with rex and allo out

And trike is still by far the slowest damn thing out there, easy as sin to avoid

[faint robin]

Rex still got autowin pin and bonebreak btw
How can herbivores like trike be op with 23 km/h run speed?

[pearl elbow]

How much work has Allo got on the balancing front left?

[steep gazelle]

Just a few changes to interactions with other Playable

Nerf the Bleed, nerf the Pin, and increase the cooldown between bites

[viscid mica]

None Tom none

[pearl elbow]

I weep for teno

[pearl elbow]

Probably should lose speed when trying to pounce

[steep gazelle]

I think that already happen

[dusky surge]

yea but if you tap it the speed loss doesnt matter lol

only if you hold it

[pearl elbow]

Hmmm that's interesting

Could be unintentional

[indigo rain]

yeah no after testing- just run from them regardless of age. they do obscene amounts of bleed

sent this in a bug report because the pounce going under my belly is... honestly hilarious- but just watch the bleed

https://youtu.be/7Y1IWWmOcOI

[warped zenith]

@twilit seal allo runs little, u shouldn't complain, allo vs cera should never win cera, what is the penalty of doing 300 dmg to cera or 400 if it is elder with the rmb? exactly, none, it doesn't even spend stam, the pounce of the allo spends a lot of stam and doesn't have much, he can't even run more than 15 seconds as an adult

[twilit seal]

thats jsut false, allo stam is really good and im prime elder rn, and stam cost is like 5% you just need one hit literally, im not saying cera should 1v1

[warped zenith]

so you haven't played allo, I've already tried it and in 30 seconds or less u simply have 0% stam, all its attacks use up a lot of stam while the cera uses up 0% stam and have 300 dmg (allo 175), plus cera runs more than allo, just run, you can choose to fight or flee, that's the good thing about speed, right? (that's what ppl said about the carno, now don't start crying if you can run away from them), it's simply not a fight of ceras, the ceras in the first place shouldn't kill big dinos, it'sn't the fight of ceras, don't try kill dinosaurs you can't just kill

[twilit seal]

the only attack that uses stam is the pounce, and im still not saying cera should win the fight

its not about cera its just a general matchup thing

[warped zenith]

you can run, it's just not the cera fight or another dinos

[cosmic pelican]

"Haha I pressed RMB once so I win" attacks gotta go man

[warped zenith]

allo is to kill larger dinos, it is the first mid tier dino while in herbs we have several mid tiers

[cosmic pelican]

Allo is the pure embodiment of why pins suck so much

[twilit seal]

stam cost of pounce is exactly 5%

[warped zenith]

I agree, I didn't want him to have the pounce, but that's how they did it

[warped zenith]

dont have a lot, count the time it takes you to run out of stam

[twilit seal]

yeah gimme a sec ill see how long it takes for me to drop 10% stam

so ti took me 18 secs to get around 88% stam

thats like around 150 secs of stam for 100% stam

[warped zenith]

the cera doesn't spend stam while the rest of the dinos spend stam with their abilities, simply stupid, plus it does 300 damage, I prefer that the allo have much more damage but not have the pounce

[twilit seal]

i mean cera is absolutely broken

for something that small

[warped zenith]

but it runs approximately 34 km, when it is elder it reaches approximately 37 km, it is not much, I also think it wears out faster as you use the stam

[warped zenith]

yup

[twilit seal]

fg is 35 kmh, im 85% growth and im running 37.1

im not sure if it will get the ambush speed

[warped zenith]

true, 35*, 34 is dibble XD

[warped zenith]

it isn't enabled, I suppose allo will reach 40km with the ambush and you will have it for approx 20 sec

[twilit seal]

btw

i tested it

you dont pin something thats your size or slightly smaller

it appears, its like 65% of your weight

[warped zenith]

I suppose so as not to make it as unfair as the utah, an adult utah can pin another adult to death and they didn't want the same thing to happen

[twilit seal]

we tested it, im 3.5 tons, cant pin an allo thats 2.5 tons

[spiral ledge]

Lol

[spiral ledge]

So that means 3 allos primes cant pin a rex?

[steep gazelle]

Probably

[twilit seal]

no you can pin with more than 1 if its more than the weight pretty sure

[steep gazelle]

But Allo probably have the same low Stam/health/bleed mechanic that Omni has.

[twilit seal]

no its different, an omni can pin same size or lower solo, allo cant

[warped zenith]

it's a lot XD

[steep gazelle]

Well, that's a good thing

[twilit seal]

it is, its what I suggested in my suggestion

[steep gazelle]

Now they just have to adjust the bleed and the bite speed

[twilit seal]

okay so tested another limit, 2.6 allo could pin 1.4

pretty sure its 65%

[warped zenith]

yeah

[warped zenith]

its crazy the bleed

[twilit seal]

also peak prime stats (bite force is 200 max probably i have hypermetabolic)

[spiral ledge]

And allo can pin prime carno ?

[steep gazelle]

Yes. 4 Juv Allo makes a Carno Prime die of bleed very quickly

[steep gazelle]

If it's really 65%, then no.

[twilit seal]

it looks really funny latching on to a target thats small btw

[hasty coyote]

@indigo rain Though I agree rng buck is horrible, I heavily disagree with making buck stam based again. It used to be stam based, but that caused a lot of issues that made it really problematic to balance. Namely, you either had enough stam to kill the target in a single pounce, or you simply could not kill the target with pounce. So most small creatures would just die if they got hit by a single pounce, but even slightly larger dinos REQUIRED multiple omnis for even a chance to kill them. While you could camp terrain to negate this issue, it is the ONLY way to negate this issue and makes fights really unfun for both parties.

Thats why the buck forcing the omni to dismount is much more preferable. It allows omnis to have enough stam to kill bigger and smaller targets without them just simply dying from a single pounce. However, making the dismount time be complete rng is def really bad. I would def prefer a system where the timer is species and/or size based and the omnis are given some indicator that they are gonna be thrown off.

[spiral ledge]

Wow

[steep gazelle]

65% of 2700 is 1755

[warped zenith]

then you can never kill him unless have good bleed

[twilit seal]

you slow them down like crazy tho, enough for a second allo to come pin

[warped zenith]

same as utah

[spiral ledge]

Yeh man i though The second most strong predator would be able to hunt alone but i though wrong

[steep gazelle]

You can, it just doesn't have an instant win button

[warped zenith]

btw, weight of allo is 2793 kg, if it can pin to 65% of its weight, can pin up to a total weight of 1,815.45 kg, so it can pin a carno but not a teno bcs its weight is 1,829 kg

[steep gazelle]

True, I forgot that allo doesn't have exactly 2700kg

[warped zenith]

XD

[steep gazelle]

Well, I think they'll need to reduce that percentage from 65% to 63%, Or not

First they will have to nerf the bleed and the bite speed

[warped zenith]

well, if an allo pin a carno it is simply because carno wasn't attentive or got too close to the bushes so they will have to be more careful, there is a reason it is a game of survival and horror

[hollow flint]

is cannibal mutation working on Allo?

[analog zodiac]

Yes

[idle edge]

then how is possible allo pin 5,2tons trike to ground?

[thorn mountain]

was it mutiple allos?

because if it was, thats not a pin thats a grapple

[warped zenith]

just think, if an allo can pin to 65% of its weight, that is, 1.815,45 kg, 2 allos can pin 3.630,9 kg and 3 allos 5.446,35 kg, that's why can vs trike with 5,2 tons XD

[twilit seal]

Afaik, stamina/hp/blood also affects it just like omni but you still need multiple allos pretty sure

And im unsure if the 65% weight is just for solo pinning or applies for multiple allos, maybe with multiple allos you can pin if youre above 100% of target weight

Ie: 2 prime allos that are 3.5 tons can pin a fg stego because it weighs less than 7 tons

Until the update is live tho I cant test the exact numbers

[warped zenith]

remember that the utah can pin a stego if stego has very little stam and the utahs exceed 25% of their weight, so if a trike with 5,2 tons has little stam, an allo can pin it because 25% of the trike's weight is 1300 kg

[twilit seal]

Yeah but omni cannot solo grapple no matter what unless its same weight or below. I dont think allo can grapple alone unless its 65% of its weight and below

[warped zenith]

yes, it's made to play with a pack of 2 or 3 ppl because it has to fight against apexs and a stego (semi apex)

[twilit seal]

I also noticed that it doesnt have the stagger on dismount it had before

You cant really safely dismount off a stego right now

I dont mind if it stayed like that tho, that way you could wear out the stego with bites and coodrinate for a grapple

[warped zenith]

yes, but pounce is the only way to kill a stego rn

[dusky surge]

idk claw swipe is pretty damn good for it

[twilit seal]

I dont think that attack is really usable in a practical setting, locks you in an animation and very delayed hit, youre better off using the bites especially with the high attack speed

Also not something you can really aim, its just weird to use

[dusky surge]

it does absolutely insane bleed and damage tho, idk, i think its decent enough to warrent moving

[twilit seal]

Not reliable

[dusky surge]

also it is aimable, it's just hard to learn

[twilit seal]

I mean it is ofc aimable but very easy to dodge and requires your target to be running straight and you running beside it

If you try that on a stego that has braincells youre getting hit and dying

Bites are good tho, ceras have been killing stegos without pounce, allo can as well

[steep otter]

Yall think allo is balanced or nah?

[rapid flume]

nope

[crimson crater]

far from, i saw this coming, it’s allo after all

[steep otter]

So its op?

[native urchin]

i mean, the bleed it does its op right now, but it aknowledged by the devs that it needs fix.... but, allo is too slow right now

35kmh is not it... i would rather have not ambush speed, but more basic speed

[viscid mica]

It’s bleed and bite speed is unholy and for something its size the pin is too op plus it’s stationary turn is nutty for its size.

Sub note it’s trot is awful thou

[viscid mica]

This too

[viscid mica]

Ya fr it’s like Rex and trike they gotta drop op or the community will rip the devs apart

[timber tusk]

#balance-feedback message
I wish I could tell if the “DUH” was agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. Like, fair either way, I’m just confused 😅

[haughty grotto]

@tawdry leaf cause rex is harder and rightfully should be so.
You have turtles for free food

[finite shadow]

I think it pretty damn close, bleed could probably use a slight nerf plus it will be better once they bug fix it

[tawdry leaf]

@haughty grotto by this logic, hypsis should be killing machines or what?

[slim dragon]

#balance-feedback message
70kg female hypsi let's go
And I don't know how fast male trike and stego currently are but I'm pretty sure a 2km/h speed boost is massive to them

[dusky surge]

i love how they genuinely believe that questionable accuracy justifies more than just questionable balance

[slim dragon]

At least for once they got sexual dimorphism right
With females being larger than males in every clade except mammals

[maiden temple]

The weight difference for stego with this idea would be too laughable to work

Essentially you'd see no females

[slim dragon]

Exactly

[maiden temple]

Dimorphism being limited to looks only is good enough, the less we have to balance the better

[slim dragon]

200kg extra for stego would be a 3% weight increase

[maiden temple]

It's truly nothing compared to 2km/h speed increase

It would have to be bigger to make a difference, and spawn more problems yadda yadda

I just don't wanna have to play a male tbh

Although with the ugly new colour palette maybe it will be the new me

RIP my beautiful stego skins

[astral basalt]

The bleed is to strong I got altbitten by a allo that was smaller than me as a 50% Omni so he prob was like 30% and I ran for only 10secs before sitting down and lost 50% blood

They gotta nerf that

[thorn mountain]

its a bug

[dusky surge]

@brisk slate sadly, there is no buck timer, bucking is 100% RNG, and is the only mechanic in the game that is RNG

that on top of the inability to use trees makes allo... really suck to deal with

[slim dragon]

FALSE!!!! Vomiting from vomit sickness and drinking salt water is RNG too !

Wavepoole spreading misinformtation, as always

[vale brook]

WHACK HIM AGAIN!

[viscid mica]

That and the fact it applies so much damage 2 juvi allos fresh spawn can kill a full dibble

[indigo rain]

Hot take drinking salt water and eating from rotten bodies should fill your water or stomach with bile because you would feel queasy and know to stop. Then a cerato could take advantage and bite you, but otherwise you can look for salt to cure yourself

Same effect: if low on hunger you just puke, as well as low on water

[tawdry meteor]

Cera buff ?

[indigo rain]

Technically. But if you vomit and a cera sees you anyways its the same result

If anything this is more a universal buff to not lose so many nutrients

[hasty coyote]

Prob a good change imo

[indigo rain]

More universal buff than anything. I cant stand rng in a game like this despite playing dnd

[steep otter]

Like he needs any

[golden coral]

@solar lodge Strafing would be nice, more movement option for more playables would be nice honestly. And remove the running swing entirely, stego should not be encouraged to run at anything, much less anything large enough to require that swing to deal with.

[dusky surge]

@alpine plover #balance-feedback message

it does lol

It even scales with corpse size

[alpine plover]

Can a dibble stun you, if you have a corpse large enough?

[dusky surge]

Uhh I think so, but that’s because dibble has some of the most effective stun in the game

The corpse would be useful against sub dibbles however

It prevents knockdowns from tailslams from tenos, for instance

[mint star]

I wonder if it gets pin resistance

[alpine plover]

That should be a thing, especially with Rex & Allo coming out

Cerato should be immune to pins from sub rexes or allos near a large enough corpse, but thats just me

[dusky surge]

Yea but then you have stuff like a giant ass allo hanging off the side of a much smaller cera and not pinning it

[steep gazelle]

You don't want to be completely immune to Stun, Knockdown, and Pin just for being near a body, do you?

Cerato already has a resistance that increases its weight to approximately 2100kg+(Using charge bite), That's more than enough

[random stump]

#balance-feedback message

maybe allo shouldnt outrun the thing that it 1 shots

[rigid tulip]

I gave up on this games combat time to move onto echoes of extinction

Pins are the nail in the coffin

[rigid tulip]

This is a crazy take in this day and age bro be careful.

Sigh

First omni one shotting every small tier then they let it one shot mid tiers with friends then they add rex that can outrun the things it one shots and cutscenes to death now they add a dino who is literally meant to be the absolute most common and versatile predator into the game and what does it do? Cutscene you to death

I remember people complaining about omni pin one shotting all the small tiers with zero skill input and zero counterplay and them going unheard because its small tiers and they can hide and grow fast and they’re less played yk. Now we have a large mid tier doing this. Where at any moment if you simply get unlucky enough to be spotted by two of these things your right to play the game gets revoked. 4+ hours down the drain. A videogame is meant to be interactive, fun, and an enjoyable experience.

[haughty grotto]

i imagine you would like dinos to have a little more realistic maneuvers, perhaps a bicycle kick?

[lone badger]

Anyone enjoying?

[regal tulip]

Only the cc resist or did they bring dmg reduction scaling back as well?

[hasty coyote]

It has always had the damage reduction. Iirc it effectively 2x cera’s hp if the corpse is big enough.

[viscid mica]

@solid belfry and then you got those really unlucky players doing 1/2 the damage of your average Dino cuz RNjesus has decided they are not worthy. RNG is melee PvP games is not fun, good or enjoyable in any way. Just look at bucking most complained about universal feature and it’s RNG, RNG is never good

[regal tulip]

pretty sure they removed the scaling a few patches ago

[random stump]

im just saying, maybe, hear me out (this is probably too far) but what if allo & rex could only use their pounce/crush on creatures smaller then themselves when murder sprinting (when you have the litte >>) by your stamina bar, and then allo would still be able to pounce without it same as omni, but it would only be able to latch onto and attack things larger then itself, instead of pinning smaller dinos to the ground

[viscid mica]

That would be news to me

[viscid mica]

I mean to be fair as well if your 50%- of the size of them and let them get that close you deserve to be pinned

[hasty coyote]

@spiral ledge that video you attached is of the evrima allo that’s incomplete lol. The instant 180 turn and insane speed are dead giveaways. Plus the video title says evrima.

[random stump]

yeah its just one of the annoying things about the game is smaller creatures (with a few exceptions) kinda just lose their niches entirely as bigger ones are added. Cerato the uber mega corpse bully doesnt corpse bully anymore because the most common and second most common land carnivores now both one shot it

[spiral ledge]

ok , wait i changed they are a lot of videos that prove what i am saying

[viscid mica]

Tbf cera can bully the hell outa smaller Rex’s anything under 6 tons with 2 or 3 of you and enough game knowledge

How ever allo is a different story cuz it can easily spam its

As a unironically bigger omni

[random stump]

maybe a larger stamina cost for launching your 3 ton self a few dozen feet could help then? Idk tho the "bully" isnt a bully anymore because its getting punked by the main things actually hunting

[viscid mica]

Allo over all needs a adjust to its pounce/pin it’s a lil broken rn and the devs admitted it’s not compete or ready Ie juvis can bleed out full grown carnos with like 4 bites

[golden coral]

@spiral ledge I do think those videos don't prove too much, considering how new allo is, vs the time the other playables have been out. Maybe give people a decent amonut of time to learn how to allo, before making too much of a judgement of how good or bad the playable is.

[random stump]

thats nutty

[viscid mica]

The funny part is I’m not lying 😂

[spiral ledge]

man allo will be only a meal for rex .... rex have ambush , allo not and is a free meal for a 3 t rex

[random stump]

Allo does have ambush

[spiral ledge]

nop

[random stump]

yep

[spiral ledge]

dondi said no

[golden coral]

Well, an allo is a midtier, I don't imagine a solo one is going to square up to a rex. But can't they do a stego and run?

[random stump]

well when i play the game and i look in the bottom right as a crouched adult allo, i see the speed thing show up

so yep

[golden coral]

Or is it a matter of subrex being overall better than allo?

[viscid mica]

If allo is universally faster it wouldn’t need ambush, but ambush is fine just fix the trot speed to not be agonizingly slow

[golden coral]

Cause I don't see an adult rex somehow hunting down an allo if it can't hunt down a stego, but I could see a sub be a match, but then it should be a good matchup, probably a little bit in favour of the allo even

[viscid mica]

The problem is more so the speed of Rex sprint through out its entire size while allos are slow as balls for no real reason

[spiral ledge]

the niche of allo in the ecosystem it is occupied by the rex. told me what allo can hunt???

[golden coral]

Hmm, is large rrex also fast? I figured it'd be the juvie rex thing, since they're known for being very fast, but not when rex starts to focus more on strength

[viscid mica]

Tbf that’s another issue about how stegos are basically free food for Rex’s rn but that’s a whole other problem

[spiral ledge]

stegos destroy allo , dibbles and trikes same , tenos maias and ceras are faster and without ambush very hard to dont die for hungry

[golden coral]

I kind of imagine allo being a more versatile subrex, kind of, or at least that's probably how I'd tune it

[viscid mica]

Between 2.8-4tons Rex is faster base sprint if I’m not mistaken

[spiral ledge]

and told me if i am not correct but i think a 3t have ambush?

[viscid mica]

This I agree with allo base sprint needs a buff it’s unnecessarily slow

[golden coral]

Huh, sounds a bit rough to be honest

[viscid mica]

Yup

[spiral ledge]

nah allo will be a dino to decorate xddddd

[viscid mica]

Allo atm cannot beat 1v1 a Rex that’s 3tons + nor can it escape as the Rex out sprints it in every way

[golden coral]

I don't think there's a reason to think allo won't be given a good treatement, stego was after all adjusted for rex, more or less, and so most likely allo will be too

It's stated to be overtuned in the bleed, and could be undertuned in other ways

[twilit seal]

why should it be able to even have a chance against something over 9 tons as a 1.4 ton animal lol

[viscid mica]

Tbf stego or Rex still need a change, either Rex pin needs to only pin 50%- or stego needs to be defaultly bigger or cause more stun with its power swing

[spiral ledge]

i dont want to win , i dont want to be eaten all the times a rex sees me

[random stump]

it doesnt and shouldnt, im moreso speaking of allo

[viscid mica]

Wrong Dino gang

[twilit seal]

I mean cera is intended to 1v1 an allo with the corpse buff, with the stability boost too

[random stump]

As with all the apexes rexes will become rarer then HT to the point where cerato can actually (usually) hold a corpse

[viscid mica]

Intended and can are two different things my friend

[twilit seal]

he mentioned both saying they one shot cera

[random stump]

its just allo aka cerato exploder 50000000 kinda wont do that

[viscid mica]

A stego is intended to have a chance again a Rex but in practice 2 players of equal skill the Rex always wins

[random stump]

rex crush stego once

[golden coral]

Maybe so, I've not kept up, I was told that things would be fine and stego was doing okay so. I still think the point stands, stego did get some adjustments, like speed I believe, so there's no reason to think allo won't also get adjustments if needed

[viscid mica]

Yes they can pin them atm

[twilit seal]

cera chooses the engagement, as its faster than both, idk why it should be expected to have a fighting chance against stuff more than double its size

[random stump]

stego no more swing cuz broken ling

[golden coral]

Might not get everything it needs, but none the less, I doubt allo will just be left as is right now

[random stump]

"skill issue stego gg ez!!!!" and it may as well have just 1 shot it

[viscid mica]

I wouldn’t call the fact that Rex’s of equal size can crush through power swings and it takes 2 more power swings to win than it takes crushes

[spiral ledge]

i only wish they put ambush for allo , is the unique way to be able to hunt in my point off view

[viscid mica]

Well technically allo isn’t it’s 2.793 😂

[viscid mica]

It’s incomplete so 🔜

[twilit seal]

has anyone tested with corpse buff?

[viscid mica]

Yup still pins

[golden coral]

I guess the people I talked to might have been a bit too optimistic about the situation then, in which case it's fair to worry about allo, but I'd like to think the devs do intend to make sure things work out

[twilit seal]

im pretty sure that will be changed then

[viscid mica]

Allos can pin allos of equal weight

It’s got omni math rn

[viscid mica]

Hope so

[twilit seal]

no thats just false, it pins 65% and below

[twilit seal]

you dont pin equal size or even smaller allos

[viscid mica]

Catch what dibbles? That they lose too 1v1?

[random stump]

i dont think thats the case, i fought a juvie allo with a juvie allo and neither of us could pin the other

[golden coral]

Sounds like there's some rhyme and reason to it then, maybe we should wait and see, hordetest after all tends to mean rather unfinished

Then again, it can take a while for things to make sense and work out

[viscid mica]

Huh how strange

[spiral ledge]

to hunt boars and deers another think i dont know jsjsjsjs

[twilit seal]

i have tested the thresholds in a video, allo pins 65% of its weight and less

[viscid mica]

65% is so weirdly specific

Why 65 why not 50

[twilit seal]

idk

[golden coral]

What's the adults weight? Allo that is

[viscid mica]

Why does Rex not 50 why is deino getting disrespected so deeply

[viscid mica]

2.793

[twilit seal]

rex doesnt grab like deino i guess

[viscid mica]

But it does the same thing with pin lol?

[golden coral]

Hm

[spiral ledge]

think tenos weight 1829 and allo are able to pin 1819 , think

[twilit seal]

why shouldnt it pin much smaller prey? its an ambush predator, its kinda the preys fault getting caught by something so slow with little stam tho

[viscid mica]

Why do allos need to be able to pin tenos

Scared of a half decent fight like huh?

[viscid mica]

But it won’t remain that slow for long though…

[spiral ledge]

nah tenos run 40 and allo 35 xdddd

[golden coral]

Prime teno? Or base teno?

[spiral ledge]

prime

[twilit seal]

wdym, rex is getting a speed buff?

[viscid mica]

But allos will have ambush that will make them much faster

[spiral ledge]

i will not be sure of this .....

[viscid mica]

Why are you talking about Rex? We talking about allo

Why does bro keep changing the topic too Rex

[twilit seal]

you literally answered my rex v deino question

[viscid mica]

Ohhhh, well simple 50% gives everything of large+ the benefit of the doubt to not get 1 tapped after 5+ hours of playing 1 thing.

Not everything barely above 50% is faster than Rex and with how big they made some of the bushes for the sake of Rex stealth some parts of the map are ni impossible to see em. Ignoring the audio level of Rex walk/sprint being obnoxiously quiet at distance for no reason at all

[viscid mica]

If they unironically keep allo at 35 with no ambush than the allo community will riot cuz Rex will obliterate the allo population worse than the stegos are getting it

[spiral ledge]

and the elder allo 32 without ambush ... i mean they survive right now becase the 80% of the populations of ht are allos , but in the moment the people comes back for his mains , allo food will dissapear

[spiral ledge]

like my granddfather said a great story needs a great villain

[viscid mica]

So basically I should just grow a Rex and watch the allos cry

[spiral ledge]

ye basically

rex can hunt allo no

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/princess-and-the-frog-dr-facilier-shadow-man-disney-shake-hands-gif-17859528

[tight cove]

if the devs dont buff allos speed, allo is done for

[steep gazelle]

Allo needs buffs and nerfs

Perhaps increase the speed of the dibble to 35km/h and the Allo to 37.8km/h.

[random stump]

i honestly think one of the more important things to do with rex is make sure it cant trot/walk down any other animals considering its not the endurance predator meant to follow you across the map (giga), but the ambush predator meant to sneak up on and catch you quickly, and if it doesnt get you then, then it shouldnt get you unless you walk into another ambush later down the line

[tight cove]

id be ok with this

[sullen dragon]

?

Are you just talking out your ass?

In the open a prime allo is demolishing even a 4 ton Rex. Where did you get that allo losses?

[viscid mica]

Read further up ya goob

It’s in context to its speed and or when it gets rebalanced and isn’t doing gods bleed

[spiral ledge]

It’s important to read xd

[viscid mica]

If anyone is here talking out there ass it’s you

Commenting without reading context smh

[sullen dragon]

Yeah Rex is faster but it has 90% worse stamina than allo. Besides you don’t even know how the fight will play out when allo gets balanced

But right now a sub Rex losses even if he’s 4 tons to 4.5 tons. He only wins when he’s 1.1 tons bigger than the allo and can pin him in a crush attack

[viscid mica]

Bruh

[sullen dragon]

Sub Rex only pins stuff 1.1 ton smaller than him I believe now

[spiral ledge]

We are talking when they nerf bleed

Not now

[viscid mica]

[sullen dragon]

But we don’t even know how the fight will play out when allo gets nerfed

[viscid mica]

Bro

GO READ THE CONTEXT

STOP YA YAPPING AND STUDY TF UP

If nothing else is changed and it’s bleed is simply nerfed allo will get bullied

That’s all we was saying

[spiral ledge]

I told you before the update , is gonna be slow , with pounce bug , without agility only able to be a scavenger

[sullen dragon]

Buddy right now an allo can bleed out a sub Rex in 15 seconds of pouncing but when allo gets nerfed it’ll take longer, sure, but how much longer? We don’t know. What we know is allo is a bleed menace and if he pounces a sub Rex the sub Rex is still gonna bleed out. I still expect the fight to go either way. We don’t even know if it’s gonna be bullied, you’re just assuming, you’re not “knowing” anything

[viscid mica]

Oml

This guy

Is missing something in his dna

[sullen dragon]

Maybe just stop assuming sh*t like a monkey lmfao

[viscid mica]

[sullen dragon]

Actually argue when we have the facts, yeah?

[viscid mica]

Omg

This dude needs to google what hypotheticals are

Rex mains I swear

[sullen dragon]

You need to google how to use your brain cells you monkey.

[sullen dragon]

Not even a Rex main 🤣

How’s a monkey racist? 🤣 further showcasing why he has no brain cells

[viscid mica]

Reading into that too much tbf

But any how

Bro is completely IGNORING everything I’ve said

And just assuming I’m arguing with him

[spiral ledge]

Yeah buddy but devs have said that will reduce a lot the bleed of the allo , so allo should have a way to hunt

[viscid mica]

You joined and started yapping all your idiocies when Rex dropped so I find this hard to believe

[sullen dragon]

Nah you out here saying that “allo atm cannot beat 1v1 a Rex that’s 3tons+ nor can it escape as the Rex out prints it in every way” well let me educate you. “Atm” means at the moment, and at the moment allo destroys 3-4.5 ton sub Rexes. You also said sub Rex “outsprints” which is blatantly false. He out speeds but not out sprints

[viscid mica]

Still haven’t read the context

And pinged the wrong person for who said that

Bro nemesis my guy

na you know what

I ain’t even it ain’t worth it

[spiral ledge]

Man ….. yep you are right forgot all

[viscid mica]

Man why’d I get ping for the shtuff you said bruh

[spiral ledge]

He didn’t read it is all

[viscid mica]

Clearly

Bro didn’t even read anything I said except the few insults too

I swear he got crazy bad tunnel vision

Bros husband must love him 😂

Forget selective hearing we got selective reading

[tight cove]

he had to be rage baiting 💀

[viscid mica]

Its nemesis I wouldn’t be suprised

[sullen dragon]

What am I missing?

Literally

[viscid mica]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1342574395339706430/togif.gif

[sullen dragon]

I mean I wouldn’t mind allo getting a speed buff but him being 35 kmh doesn’t make him a scavenger only, it makes him have to use his brain to actually ambush stuff, hence he will be an ambush predator as well since that’s the only reliable way he can hunt small stuff

[spiral ledge]

Told me what he can killed ???

[sullen dragon]

I mean I’m not sure how allo will fair with apexes when the bleed bug gets fixed but I’m guessing a pack will be able to put up a fight. He can reliably hunt dibbles since dibbles are slower than him. For smaller stuff like cera, carno, Teno, he can ambush and pin them to their death.

[spiral ledge]

Trikes ?? Stego sure not , dibble meh depends of the skills but for example in aelius vid he kill like 5 allos 1 dib

[spiral ledge]

Nah carno , cera , teno are in another league only if one of this is afk xddd

[sullen dragon]

Yes dibble is stronger than allo 1v1 but 2 allos can pin a dibble. If you also ambush a dibble as an allo you’ll most likely win the fight. Allo vs dibble is more like Rex vs trike. You need to ambush and land a pounce to win, you can’t win head on

[spiral ledge]

Dibbles I am not sure , stegos sure not

Dibbles have a lot more agility pero hard to kill alone

[sullen dragon]

Rex can ambush them and he’s slower than allo even with ambush. I don’t see much of an issue. But I mean if you really want a allo speed buff I’d like for allo to be pumped up to 38kmh and dibble to 36kmh

[spiral ledge]

And I remember the pack of dibs are 6 and allo 3 btw

[sullen dragon]

Yep

Herbis are stronger than carnis in packs, but you shouldn’t balance stuff based on pack sizes imo. More often than not a lot of normal players won’t be packed up. There’s a lot of solo players

[viscid mica]

Na na dibbles are fair game if it’s so long as they are out numbered 2-1

So 2 dibs 4 allo etc etc