balance-feedback-discussion

[cerulean vault]

they can

like he could have ran

[sullen dragon]

So what’s the problem

[cerulean vault]

I dont think there is

[random stump]

nerfing rexes crush to only work on things 50% its weight or under (when those things are full hp and stamina) would fix it, considering then rex wouldnt be able to pin a stego its own size flat out and win the fight instantly

[sullen dragon]

He has a survival chance even if he never wins PvP in that fight

[cerulean vault]

you are 3 tons heavier then a steg at full prime

[random stump]

whats your weight and the stegos weight at full prime respectively?

[cerulean vault]

that is 6k pounds

[cerulean vault]

9.4 and 12.4

Prime steg and prime rex

[sullen dragon]

Rex 12.3, stego 9.4 (i believe?)

[random stump]

yeah so it would fix the issue of "trex 1 shotting stegos its own size"

[cerulean vault]

but the steg isnt its own size

and even if it was a adult normal it would only be 6 tons

[random stump]

as in both are prime elders. it would also fix the issue of it doing the same when both are full adult, sub adult, juvie, or adolescent

[sullen dragon]

I don’t think a stego should fight a Rex either away but to run instead. If you don’t want to die just run

[cerulean vault]

oh

[cerulean vault]

I agree with this

[steel heron]

stegos cant run, rexes have better trot speeds and sprint speeds with ambush

[cerulean vault]

Like they lived in herds for a reason all herbivores did

[random stump]

thats the biggest peeve with rex for me is that the other apexes in the game remain slow and edible until full adult, meanwhile rex upon hitting like 500kg becomes omni speed can run forever and can 1 shot said omnis

[cerulean vault]

and its for that reason in that vid

[random stump]

like growing rex is literally just hitting that point and then smooth sailing

[sullen dragon]

Yes they’re faster but they only have 20 seconds of run time. A stego can keep running with his 1 minute 50 second and if the Rex isn’t using esp he’s not catching him since the tracking range is one of the worst in the game

[cerulean vault]

No

You are vulernable to allot of things once you hit 2 tons

Your own kind and ceras or carno's

[random stump]

not cannibalistic, pin, pin

[cerulean vault]

get a group of like 3 or 4 cera's

they dogpile it doesnt matter

[random stump]

ok well duh if its 3 or 4 ceratos you're cooked

[cerulean vault]

I was 2.2 tons and i fought a prime cera it was very close he was a good player

[random stump]

guys you dont understand stego vs deino is fair because if i have like 3 deinos jump a stego it dies

[cerulean vault]

not a prime deino

Yoink

[random stump]

i am pointing out a flaw in logic

[cerulean vault]

I know

[random stump]

here, "guys you dont understand, carno vs dryo is fair because i have like 80 dryos jump a carno it dies"

[cerulean vault]

XD

I have been in que this entire time

45 minutes

[random stump]

and i mean yeah sure 4 ceratos kills a 2 ton sub rex but that sub rex could also be in a group of 4 itself if it wanted to

or 8 or 12 or 20 or whatever

[steel heron]

yeahh but thing is rexes can spam that sheet plus if a steg does that he runs out of stam and can just be walked upto

[random stump]

stego sprinting till 0 stamina to get away from a rex and then, unfortunately, it ran into ceratos/allos/omnis/carnos/cannibal stegos/another rex/trikes

like again tyrant lizard king i get it but apex herbivores shouldnt be meatbags

[cerulean vault]

Stego I dont think counts

its a mid tier

[sullen dragon]

I don’t think stego is an apex

[cerulean vault]

its not Trike is stego isnt

[sullen dragon]

Devs have said again and again they want stego to run away and not to fight a Rex

[cerulean vault]

^

[random stump]

stego should be able to more consistently do that without putting itself at massive risk due to low stamina then

[cerulean vault]

He could have ran as soon as he saw two prime rex's coming for him

But the stegosaurus player allowed his/her ego to override their better judgement and they took a dirt nap

they do need a bit more stamina

[hasty coyote]

1: rex has 30 sec stam pool while ambushing, it still has like 1 minute of normal run time iirc
2: stego has only like 1:30 run time, so it really aint much different from rex
3: even with that 30 second of ambush speed, that means its able to catch a stego from over 35 meters away (assuming the stego turns and runs instantly) while having enough stamina to pin.
4:rex has a better trot. So long as that stego has tracks, rex can just follow it to the end of the earth (since it aint hiding as a walking billboard).
5: If that stego drops below 60% stam, it better have gotten away or it just straight up dies since it can't regen stam and physically lacks the stam to kill a rex

So your only hope is that the rex isnt hiding, you spot it from a mile away, and then it either loses your tracks or you go on a path (since that covers your tracks) and hope that it didn't win the 50/50 and guess which way you went.

Not to mention prime rexes are even faster than adult rexes, so adult stegos die on sight.

[random stump]

and all of that assumes it doesnt mixpack with a single omni and cooks you by forcing you to swing at it or lose stamina by bucking and die painfully

[cerulean vault]

Yep you are 35kms thats without a buffed photo

[sullen dragon]

1. Rex run time has been tested. It’s 20 seconds total using ambush speed, 30 seconds total without ambush speed. (I don’t know where you’re getting that one minute from?)

2. Stego stamina has been buffed, it has a minute and 50 second of run time now

3. Yea it can catch the stego, which is the entire point of Rex. It’s to catch you when you’re in range of murder sprint

4. Better trot doesn’t matter when it’s tracking is the worst in the game, like i said, without esp the Rex is never catching the stego.?

[hasty coyote]

rex at 35, stego at 30. That 5 m/s makes a HUGE difference

[cerulean vault]

I wasnt disagreeing was just confirming

[random stump]

idk i think this would fix those issues #balance-feedback message

[cerulean vault]

well the problem with that is the only thing that it would stop is pin

not bone break

[random stump]

as well as the phenomena of hitting like 400kg on rex and becoming a viable playable when the other apexes need to be nearing adult to do the same

[cerulean vault]

so it would be the same thing just a tad slower

so for example that prime stego

[random stump]

well it would stop you from slamming them to the ground like in the video and breaking their legs wouldnt it

[cerulean vault]

Gis bone breaks i come up bit it once trade hits then bite it again and its still dead

[random stump]

yeah and he bone broke it with the crush, which wouldnt work on the stego 3/4 of your weight with that change

[cerulean vault]

I think it would just make their death experience like slower and them feel toyed with XD

[cerulean vault]

you can't pin a trike rex crush still has the bone break it doesnt matter saw a prime rex bite a prime trike and bone break him

it just stuns them for a sec

but again stego isnt a apex they had that mentality because they were the strongest thing on the map for a while even though deino should have took that title

[sullen dragon]

If I’m understanding this correctly, Rex crush should deal no damage against 50% and up of its weight? Or just no bone break is what you mean

[hasty coyote]

I must have had the wrong info then about the stam times, that is my b. I still think a 25 meter instant death range is pretty bad (accounting for the 20 sec run time and leaving 10% to pin and insta leg break). Plus primes being primes with the massive speed boost, but thats mostly a prime issue.

Also from what I have seen, rex has good enough tracking to catch a stego, its not like the stego can make many insane moves to throw off the trail.

[sullen dragon]

Yeah honestly I might just not be the best Rex with tracking but from my experience I’ve tried tracking down two stegos now and have lost both. I’m probably just bad and don’t know how to track lol but if a stego really can’t escape a Rex at the moment and can’t fight it either I don’t like that. I don’t think a stego should fight a Rex (if he wants to go ahead but expect to be at a disadvantage) but at the cost of being able to run away if you spot a Rex that isn’t very close to you.

[hasty coyote]

I'd be fine with stego having a slim margin of error for the fight, but the instant pin and leg fracture is my main issue. Just makes getting hit because of ping diff just an instant death sentence.

[sullen dragon]

Oh yeah 100% I agree

A single crush shouldn’t just be disabling a stego straight on

[random stump]

Sprinting at an animal and trying to crush it when it is 50% of your weight or more would result in a similar outcome as carno charging a cerato (prior to the 100 kg hp buff cerato recently got), where you do less damage then you would if you did just flat out crush and break its bones, but you arent stunned or punished for using the attack, merely not further rewarded

and as the other dinos stamina or hp gets lower, similarly to omni, your crush will work at higher levels of weight. if the thing has 0 stamina, it'll work at 100% again

for reference carno in live branch (not horde test) can charge a cerato at max speed, the cerato isnt stunned (if im not mistaken), the carno isnt stunned or stopped, the cerato takes damage

you still get to do damage with the crush, more than a bite, but you wont be pinning the other dino to the ground and breaking their leg

and you dont get the short stun you normally get after missing a crush

[sullen dragon]

Yeah nah that’s a horrible idea, you got to look at crush beyond the current roster. Rex needs the tools to be able to deal with other apexes such as giga, acro, spino, etc etc and they’re all above 50% of Rex weight and most likely faster. If that’s the case they’ll just keep tanking the Rex till they get low enough for the crush to deal good damage then they’ll just simply run away forcing the Rex to bleed out (cough cough giga). Rex main problem right now is that crush can br used with no down side what so ever even by using it. Under tone the pin threshold, bone break threshold and make Rex have a recovery animation after using crush (2-3 secs) and he will be in a good spot

[random stump]

so rex needs to instantly grab and pin those other creatures and break their limbs with no real counterplay, becoming nigh untouchable to them, as the "Herbivore eater" apex?

its already going to have the largest damage from its m1 hits relative to any of them (at least i would assume so seeing as thats rex's whole strategy irl), and is (probably) winning the facetank. it doesnt need to ALSO pin them to the ground and get free damage

[sullen dragon]

? Are you not reading what I said lmao? I said reduce the pin and bone break threshold. A Rex shouldn’t bone break or pin first crush but if you get low enough he should be able to do it (orange/red health)

[sullen dragon]

This is talking about vs stego/trike btw) anything below should get one shot

[random stump]

"Yeah nah that’s a horrible idea, you got to look at crush beyond the current roster. Rex needs the tools to be able to deal with other apexes such as giga, acro, spino, etc etc and they’re all above 50% of Rex weight and most likely faster."

this is very clearly implying rex needs to be able to pin and crush these creatures

when my idea is "it shouldnt be pinning and crushing things over 50% of its own weight"

[sullen dragon]

Yes he does when they get low enough HP. Those creatures will have their own abilities too

[random stump]

that is LITERALLY what i said

[sullen dragon]

Obviously shouldn’t pin them or bone break them first crush like you implied

[random stump]

"and as the other dinos stamina or hp gets lower, similarly to omni, your crush will work at higher levels of weight. if the thing has 0 stamina, it'll work at 100% again"

[sullen dragon]

Yes bur you’re just not talking about the pin or bone break. You’re talking about the damage as a whole which I disagree with

The damage should stay fixed

[random stump]

i am literally talking about the pin and bone break.

that is, infact, exactly what i am referring to

[sullen dragon]

Oh… well idk why we’re arguing I agree with you. Misunderstanding my b

[random stump]

im saying "you dont get to pin the other dinosaur to the ground and break their limbs if they're 50% weight or higher of yours, unless they're already injured or exhausted"

fr

[steep gazelle]

To be quite honest, Rex shouldn't have and doesn't need this Pin mechanic on Low Stam/health/Bleed creatures

[random stump]

its for the cool factor tbh

[steep gazelle]

This mechanic works on Omni because he is fragile

[random stump]

more entertaining to pin down and finish off the low hp apex then to just bite it and it tposes then ragdolls

[sullen dragon]

I disagree with that. All apexes have their abilities and I like that ability about Rex

[steep gazelle]

I'm not saying Rex shouldn't have pin. Pinning things smaller than 50% of its weight is fair, but pinning a trike just because it's low on health is stupid

[sullen dragon]

I mean a trike can knock down a Rex as well and a trike can 100% knock down the Rex if Rex is low stam. I don’t see a problem

If you’re low health/low stam you’ll be exhausted and much weaker than when you got into the fight. It makes sense to be pinned/knocked down

[steep gazelle]

Trike should be able to do this, he can only defend himself from a Rex, while a Rex decide whether or not to fight a Trike because he is faster

This takes away a good chance of victory that Trike could have, but doesn't have because he basically has less health against a Rex

[random stump]

for a trike to get low on health against a rex (that doesnt crush it and break its leg at the beginning of the fight) requires alot of actual effort from the rex, as oppossed to crush + crush again + crush.... hmmmm, maybe 1 more time! yipee "outskilled"!!!!

[sullen dragon]

This is not always the case though. A trike has much more stamina than a Rex and can easily walk down the Rex. None of the trike attacks also cost stamina while Rex main attacks costs such huge stam drain. Trike is also a much easier grow than a Rex. I’m the failing to see the point as to why Rex shouldn’t have a pin on low health animals even if theyre similar weight tbh, it’s such a cool animation and I see it more of a execute animation that the Rex gets to do to finish up its mwah victory

[steep gazelle]

It's not that hard. Trike only has 7600 health against a Rex currently thanks to this, 2 crush and one bite takes it away effortlessly

[steep gazelle]

I wouldn't think it was so bad if instead of this happening on a Trike with 20% heat/stam/bleed, it happened when the trike was around 5%

It would be a finish, just like you want, but it wouldn't be Op like it currently is

[sullen dragon]

Doesn’t crush deal 3k damage though? If the trike has 20% health and crush gets used, he’s going to die anyways since at 20% health he’s literally at 1.9 tons. It changes nothing

The pin animation makes his death much cooler

[sullen dragon]

For the Rex ofc

[random stump]

remove the two op pins, how many bites

the change would make it so he cant just pin the trike twice at the start of the fight

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message what horror feeling? taking away a crucial sense ain’t scary just frustrating that you have to squint your eyes and use gamma to enhance the light

[dusky surge]

People forget that it’s scarier if you can see the scary thing lmao

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
I already cannot see during the night unless I'm in the open, crazy stuff
It's not fun to stare at a black screen in the bushes I chose to hide in lol

Most players play carnis already, don't make herbis even less attractive to play :x

[slim dragon]

I don't think it's simply possible to make nights darker for herbis
Despite what the anime with that name implies, there is no darker than black

[hasty coyote]

not to mention, if you make people literally blind at night, they're just gonna log out or afk the night. We already know from when NV was REALLY BAD that this is the case.

[random stump]

i dont think night needs to be made darker for anything. the night terrors should probably have better night vision then they currently do but nothing needs to see even worse

[errant wave]

as someone trying to give the smaller dinos some much-needed love, I completely agree that juvi rex needs a nerf. it’s so silly being pinned from 10 feet away by a fresh juvi rex and not being able to do anything about it. I get that they’re supposed to be fragile, but what’s the point of having these smaller dinos on the roster if you can’t even play them? 🤨

I’m mostly referring to hypsi and dryo btw! not enough people play them as it is, but they’re pretty much unplayable now

[steep gazelle]

I agree. It's kind of stupid that Rex can run so fast and at the same time be so strong

[viscid mica]

Your thinking in months? 😂

Wait omg your pfp

<@&933486433342222376>

[vocal veldt]

guys what do you think about Dilos where they are at this moment...they have some speed but imho very fragile even with bleed ress mutation

[sharp wigeon]

I like the idea of nocturnal hunters having worse day time vision.

However, I must make two points.

One: Night is short in this game compared to day, roughly eight hours, while the remaining 16 are day.

Two: Troodon's food drains quickly, and anything impairing his ability to hunt will hurt considerably, especially for fresh spawns. (Improve availability of food for Troodon, and this is not an issue).

[thin mantle]

The only issue with worse daytime vision is that it pretty significantly detracts from the visual appeal of the game

It sounds like a good idea in concept but all you’re doing is making it so players have less viable uptime, which generally speaking is a terrible experience

Like does it perhaps make sense that stego is essentially blind at night? Maybe.
Is this good for gameplay? No not at all

[rapid flume]

<@&933486433342222376> profile picture and username

[sacred moat]

I was on a reborn baby diabloceratops when I was killed by a damn boar, I just appeared and it didn't even take 10 seconds for it to attack and tear me apart, and I couldn't hide anywhere, it was terrible...

[haughty grotto]

@sacred moat why are you surprised lol
There is one reason and one reason only: to not have free food, to add difficulty surviving on the isle
I like the concept of aggressive ai, nothing in real life goes down without a fight, there should be some fear factor as a juvie

Also, what you said about boars isn't exactly true. They can be aggressive and territorial af

Is it cruel? Absolutely. That's the intention.
But is it unfair? Nope. We all survive the same isle.

Its a brutal survival game, not a peaceful growing simulator

[viscid mica]

Welcome to hardcore survival genre

[obtuse ocean]

How is this hard survival? Its food and water everywhere. As herbi player the biggest problem is getting rid of the food so you can grow faster

[sacred moat]

I'd look at you if your three-time-reborn dinosaur died in the first 10 seconds after being reborn from a boar that's camping on the spawn.

[quick furnace]

well if you fight a rex you should die. just dont fight it and run away. its horrible to grow a rex, its weak in early, yet i agree on getting rid of crush until 50% or so. ( no AI )

also curshing takes alot of stamina , easily to the point where you dont regenerate it. one target town , rex is vulnerable. dont nerf it at least make it not unplayable. its the biggest predator of all time ffs

and please to all them haters, try to grow a rex on no AI , with AI its just as easy as your herbis yea. but play it before wanting rex to be nerfed to the ground

[dusky surge]

crushing takes 4% stam to activate

that's less than a raptor pounce lmao

[quick furnace]

when you hit the crush you lose stam, alot

[dusky surge]

you also nuke the opponent, so who really cares

[quick furnace]

if you 1v1 a rex its ur fault to beginn with

[dusky surge]

it's... really not?

the rex gets to choose the engagement with the animals that matter for it

like stegos or trikes

and neither of these two can win the 1v1

[slim dragon]

krill issue

[quick furnace]

both can outrun the rex

[dusky surge]

are you

you cant say this immediately after saying "play rex"

there's no way

you actually think that's the case

[quick furnace]

huh?

have you seen the stamina use when rex runs? once your in ambush range thats it for you most likely yea

its not that the stomps can be heard miles away when rex walks

[dusky surge]

it can still outrun trike and stego lol

[quick furnace]

rex without stamina, very very bad spot for a rex

i mean stamina wise they will outrun a rex

they can run and run

but i agree make crush not to easy to hit, make it harder. make it use more stamina and so on

but once a rex has you in my opinion it should be devastating

[dusky surge]

id just give it like a 10 second cooldown and have it cost 8% stam

i agree crush should be devestating as hell tho

my issue is how spammable it is in combat

[quick furnace]

jea i agree, i need to find food tho im starving rn

[dusky surge]

i'd also nerf how much it can pin because i watched a juvi rex pin an adult maia and that's uh

stupid

[quick furnace]

jea remove crush until idk 30-50 %

or make it only pin 75% of your weight or something

i highly highly recommend everyone who wants to know how good rex is, to go on HT no AI server and try to grow beyond 30%

compared to all the other carnivores, rex is super weak early game

[native urchin]

neither of these 2 can win 1vs1 is a crazy take

stego and trike are very much capable of killing the rex 1vs1. (stego on same size, which is easy to get prime on stego, due to needing food is a bit harder on rex, but also stego if its not in ambush range, can get away from a prime rex)

rex needs to be very very careful with the stego, cause one stun to the face and the rex is dead pretty much.

trike same size can just lock the rex in sparring and spam the flip...

[faint robin]

Trike can't

[faint robin]

Trike can't lock rex in sparring nor it can spam flip
Rex outdamages flip by a lot even w normal bites then just crushes you on orange

Saying trike vs rex is fair for trike is a rex glazer take

[native urchin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-S_Nm3DyY

ui just have a skill issue!

[slim dragon]

If stego needs to be the same size a rex to win a fight then it cannot win in a fight
Because stego is not the same size as rex

[native urchin]

there is 1vs1 here

[native urchin]

prime stego is same size as regular fg rex, and it can stun up to 11.5 tons.... so u just cant fight/stun a prime rex pretty much! but u can outrun him if u see him early enough to be out of the ambush range

[slim dragon]

Why do you compare elder stego with adult rex instead of comparing it with elder rex, as you should ?

Why don't you compare adult stego with adult rex ?

[native urchin]

because they rae not in the same category? rex is an apex, stego is a sub apex... stego can run if its not ambushed

[slim dragon]

The baseline of balance is to compare things of equivalent growth, not an adult VS an elder, or an adult VS a juvie

[slim dragon]

So it can't fight

[native urchin]

well, u see more prime stegos than prime rexes, i dont see this much struggle to survive as stego, just as much as a teno or cera or anything else!

considering those are more vulenrable to speedy rex, something stego is not for example

[native urchin]

just gotta pick your fight!

[slim dragon]

If you scroll up, you'll see that's not what's being put under question

[native urchin]

yea, and its misinformation taht trike and stegos cant win 1vs1.... on same size comparison, they have the edge, both of them

[slim dragon]

Stego is NOT the same size as rex

Also trike doesn't really "have the edge" against rex
It can win, sure, but the odds are against it

Because of the crush

[native urchin]

when prime he is.... thoguh! so u can get same size of most rexes, so u can fight anything aside from prime rex, once you reach prime

[slim dragon]

But prime stego isn't the same size as prime rex

We trying to put things on equal terms here

[quick furnace]

the videos wont help, they still gonne say rex is to op

[native urchin]

only crushes your face once, (which i believe it will be fixed that trike takes full dmg to the face btw), then in sparring u melt the rex

[slim dragon]

That's like saying omni can 1v1 rex when they're the same size

[quick furnace]

afterall its an apex predator that hunts big herbivores

[slim dragon]

We'll see once it's fixed

[native urchin]

definitely can, its just a matter of who presses the pin first XD

[slim dragon]

Are you like this on purpose ?

[native urchin]

even if trike takes the crush to the face and takes a lot of dmg, u are still dpsing the rex to death

[slim dragon]

I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed multiple times already that rex has higher dps

[native urchin]

so how am i winning on yellow hp?

rex cannot tank trike.... trike who die so fast its because they let the rex behind

lock it in spar mode, and keep the rex in front. ta da...... u win

[native urchin]

if trike is smaller than yea, it can just keep crushing the face (until its fixed)

[native urchin]

omni can pin same weight 🙂

[slim dragon]

[native urchin]

from your takes i thought it was important to point it out, cause u seem clueless about lots of stuff of the game

[slim dragon]

Now I know you're a troll

[faint robin]

Youre just a rex glazer which had body camped by a trike when you was young

[native urchin]

im a teno main, im a fellow herbi player like you

[faint robin]

If trike can kill ooga booga caveman brain rex ≠ trike is good vs rexes

[native urchin]

well, in the end skill matters! learn, and u wont have issues with rexes..... unlike u i tried all, and had matchups with all 3, as each one of them!

[viscid mica]

That’s a lie

Trike loses if skill Rex is even slightly average

Even if trike is good

[native urchin]

No, u just don’t let it behind! Slide backwards and Rex ain’t getting behind if trike doesn’t make mistake

It’s just like teno c’era matchup pretty much, the better player wins

[viscid mica]

Any Rex who isn’t stupid will easily loop behind you or atleast they the side angle

Rex outrightly out walks trike turn

Let alone sprint or murder sprint

[thin mantle]

Trike is so comparatively unagile it’s not even a somewhat difficult challenge to get behind and stun it on Rex

Not to mention Rex is shockingly agile for its size

So no it’s not even close to an equal matchup

[native urchin]

Yet me minitrike and Mr gray all won our 1vs1 😂

All the videos u see of trikes dying to Rex, they panic spam the thrash

[thin mantle]

Most of the videos I see of trikes losing to Rexes is them essentially getting stunlocked through a combination of pin and headbuts before they even have the opportunity to turn to catch the Rex doing it

All of the trikes I’ve killed have died similarly

[native urchin]

If they get stunned and not enter spar mode, they are smaller

[thin mantle]

No, Rex pin can hard stun above its weight

[native urchin]

I locked a prime Rex in spar mode at 11.5 tons

[native urchin]

Yea, when u are wounded! Not before that

[native urchin]

Sorry, I misread your sentence! Thought u meant pins above its weight

[thin mantle]

Right so all you have to do is get behind the trike (extremely easy to do, it’s not even player skill dependent trike is just slow), land a crush or headbut, do half the trikes health bar then finish it with a pin before it can hit you with its second attack

It’s formulaic

[native urchin]

It’s so easy to do, no one vs a trike that knows what to do has allowed a Rex behind

[thin mantle]

Trike is an extremely shallow animal when it comes to engaging it directly there’s not much you have to outplay

[thin mantle]

Then that means literally everyone who’s lost to a Rex in a 1v1 has no idea what they’re doing

[native urchin]

Rexes are just taking advantage of the trike not taking dmg resistance to the face, which will make Rexes have to play more carefully

[native urchin]

I personally have seen dumb trikes die to Rexes… no Rex has gotten behind just with speed, but because they took advantage of the trike missing or trashing

[thin mantle]

I’m not even joking there were at least 4 different instances of the Rex literally forgetting to attack you once it got behind you or somehow missing your completely undefended rear

[slim dragon]

Why does it look like they're all afk

[thin mantle]

You were dead to rights so many times there

[native urchin]

They were all small, aside from one

[thin mantle]

Like this goes beyond bad Rexes, they act like they don’t have their attacks bound

[native urchin]

Well, only when the trike joined tbh! I got crushed coming out of water twice

[thin mantle]

No even after that when you started chasing, the Rex gets behind you, does nothing, reoriented behind you, attacks way off to its left, you’re still facing away from it

If he had a functioning mouse and keyboard you would’ve just gotten pinned and died

[native urchin]

No, cause I was still fine hp, while he was low! So dmg was not enough to pin me

Reason why I played more aggressive

And litterally, I slid, and locked him again in spar mode😅 how many trikes have u seen trying to do that?

If it wasn’t for the trike, he was never getting behind me until I played aggressive

Which, if u have fought a trike as Rex, you would u understand when a Rex is low

[thin mantle]

You absolutely were, he just didn’t hit you when he had a solid 6-9 seconds of free damage on you

That Rex was just incompetent

[slim dragon]

In all the videos you posted, I wonder how the fight would have went if you didn't have terrain to stick your butt to

[thin mantle]

Yeah like trike shouldn’t require terrain to carry it so hard in a 1v1

[native urchin]

I came from the open plains of fork! I just sparred my way to the water

[thin mantle]

Rex is just too agile

[native urchin]

Cause he couldn’t get behind me in the open lol, so I was able to position myself better, also cause I saw the trike incoming

Also, clearly from my choice of going swimming, I’m not a trike player 😅 completely clueless of how slow it swims

[native urchin]

I still think it should requires skill! If u suck and make a mistake, Rex will punish you!

But, it will get better when they fix dmg reduction to the face

For trikes who know how to not allow a Rex behind that is ofc

[thin mantle]

It’s currently harder for a trike to deny a Rex access to its vulnerable areas than it is for a Rex to reach them, it needs to be the opposite

[native urchin]

we also have to take in consideration teh speed difference between different stages of prime, which doesnt help seeing a fair fight in general... all i say, videos u see around of trikes and rexes matchup, its hard to tell about the balance. all we know is definitely skill is a factor, the better players wins. same skill i guess we won't know until it drops and we can try it on admin server

[thin mantle]

I think I’ve experienced more than enough of this matchup to know it heavily favors Rex and it’s not even close

[native urchin]

there are admin servers to practice... i see u aint in none of them.... playing tehre time to time will make u better than 90% of the isle community... meaning most rexes will become ooga booga for you

just like ceras.... cera is op only in good hands, if its used by ooga booga players they die like flies

[steep gazelle]

Rex is even worse than Cerato in terms of skill requirements, due to the Pin on things with 20% health/Stam/bleed and the fracture. Rex shouldn't be able to Pin andmuch less fracture a Trike.

Without this, the fight between these 2 would be truly fair and with the victory in favor of Trike, as it should be

[native urchin]

true, its an apex. no apex requires skill in this game

they made it clear that apexes are supposed to be strong, and they are basically almost untouchable by anything smaller. (which btw, rex is the easiest to hunt as mid tier of them all)

[faint robin]

Just proved most rex players have wallnut brains

[native urchin]

so why u dying to them XD

[quick furnace]

guess your experience with rexes wasnt that pleasent. just get better mate

[faint robin]

That rex could just go in and kill trike

[quick furnace]

shade thats what i told you, you can show them evidence, yet it wont change anything. like flatearther realy

[faint robin]

But hes too scared to do so cuz scary trike ig.
All this "get better" slop comes from rex glazers lol
You glaze the easiest and most skilless animal with basically 2 button combat
Even if youre dogpile - you can just avoid fights as rex unless other rexes 🙂

[quick furnace]

i mean ur mad i get it, yet common sense and objective arguments wont convince you off of your road at rage

[faint robin]

Slopasaur rex mains just want to continue dominating everything
You basically said trike should run from rex above man

[quick furnace]

go on a no AI server and make a rex happen

if you make it happen in the next 2 days i agree with you

[quick furnace]

i thought trike can outrun rex yeah my mistake i guess

i think i even give you a week

solo that is

[faint robin]

Easy as hell since rex basically dominates everything on all stages
You feed on your "opponents"

[quick furnace]

clearly you havent played no ai yet

where you have to fight with other carnis

like i say, go ahead and try it

[faint robin]

"Fight" more like feed on them since young rex still dominates all same weight playables

Also rexes are like 6 to 1 trike or stego

[quick furnace]

xd this guy wont even listen just continues his outrage

[native urchin]

im a teno main, which is probably one of the dinos that takes more skill to use properly btw....

[quick furnace]

im good man have an "argument" with some1 that wants to deal with that

[faint robin]

Theres a literal vid of rex growing on no ai and saying its ez

[faint robin]

Slower dinos are harder (like dibble) since you can't retreat whenever you want

[quick furnace]

try it.

[native urchin]

u never played rex, so how would u know! i wanna see you grow it, and fight carnos whe u are 700kg, or fight prime pachys! when u are 50% (2 tons) it gets easier.... but then be ready to fight 5 ceras... can u manage stam to fight 5 ceras?

[native urchin]

dibble is harder than teno? ahahahaha are u okay?

dibble doesnt need to run, im talking fighting.... fighting as dibble is way easier than fighting as teno

has more dmg out put, easier to hit, spar mode, double the hp XD u tripping

[faint robin]

It is easier but survivability wise dib is harder

[native urchin]

teno cant retreat from anything either btw XD if u start a fight with ceras, they can just track u (teno is only 0.1 faster than cera)

[faint robin]

Teno can run whenever it decides to
Dibble is left to fight until its opponents decide to disengage

[faint robin]

Teno has more stam on top of jump lol

Jump on a rock boom safe from ceras

[native urchin]

to grow u mean? yea sure! but to learn pvp of it, teno is much harder

[native urchin]

i mean, put your butt on a rock as dibble, and you are safe from cera too XD and if u pukled, no rock is saving you

[faint robin]

I have a good freaking pic for this

[native urchin]

after fighting no, unless u got tactile i guess! but still, u will be bleeding, a cera can track you

[faint robin]

Jump on a rock and youre safe from 100 ceras

[native urchin]

pretty sure the rex is dead XD pin is about to be let go

[faint robin]

Dibble is cooked if 3-4 good ceras spot it no matter where

[faint robin]

Guy said he died to that 🙂

[native urchin]

skill issue on the cera, to get pinned means he got low

[faint robin]

So balanced rex pinning a 10 times bigger cera
Ig fg rex will pin fg camara in certain circumstances

[native urchin]

thats not 10 times bigger

that rex is 700/800 kg

[faint robin]

Visually its at least 3 times bigger

[native urchin]

yea visually dont matter, weight matters!

[faint robin]

Waiting for fg rex to pin fg camaras and brachios

Because poor ahh rex needs a 100% kill confirm on a thing which can't run from it anyways

[native urchin]

me and aelius both got messed up by trikes and stegos! so, my guy, if u die to rexes, you got a skill issue!

i have killed and died to stegos and trikes!
and i have killed and died to rexes as stego.... not as trike, im still alive 🙂

[faint robin]

And they are saying its me who blindly repeats things

[native urchin]

i just enjoy watching u cry about it, so i keep coming back and say the same stuff to you! get in the laaaaab

[faint robin]

Don't even try to say "uh erm ehh actually trike is dead on orange anyways" since its not

[faint robin]

You just glaze rex, just another copy of human obsessed with this Hell Creek juvie herbie eating machine who had body camped by an "evil bad herbivore" when they were young

You basically told why you think rex is ok being op, because bad trikes and stegs body camped before it came

"Finally I can destroy that body camping herbivores left and right muahaha"

[steep gazelle]

Apex should be strong, but Rex is simply out of the curve. It is strong, fast, turn very well, can cause fractures, pins and knockdowns, This is even ridiculous

[faint robin]

You forgot instant alt attack

2x faster than trike's

[steep gazelle]

I hope there's a good Nerf on Rex

The same thing happened with Maia in his hordtest

[faint robin]

But maia is just a mooing cattle and rex IS TEH KING

[steep gazelle]

Although I doubt it, since the devs usually don't nerf their favorite xd

[native urchin]

i think rex should be op, just like trike and stegos are tbh! i never complained of how strong trike and stegos are.
i have only complained about the stego hitbox of the power swing, which has been fixed! never once complained about how strong apexes are

[alpine plover]

i say let rex be op just let us flyers one shot them

[steep gazelle]

It was just an example. Maia was extremely strong and then nerfed. The same thing has to happen with Rex.

[native urchin]

fast fro trike, its slow for anything else XD

[faint robin]

Trikes and stegs can't be op w how slow they are lol

[steep gazelle]

No. Rex can run at 35km

Faster than dibble

[native urchin]

its not like rex can chase anything down buddy, rex is 29. somethig kmh, plus ambush, which drains its stam, and can only be used for so long

[faint robin]

60 km/h when young

[steep gazelle]

Thats too

[native urchin]

killable by a pack of midtiers pretty easily

[steep gazelle]

Needing a pack to kill a Rex that should be weak (Juv/Sub)

[native urchin]

weak? its almost 1 ton

and it reaches that at 45% growth btw

[steep gazelle]

That's why he should be

[native urchin]

which stego is 3 tons at 45%

[obtuse ocean]

The speed of rex while growing is to fast, but it should still be strong thats his advantage.

[faint robin]

Rex basically kills what it wants and runs from what it wants at any stage
Seeing those elder rexes with a peanut for a brain says a lot about how easy rex is to grow even as a complete noob

[native urchin]

i mean a cera and carno can still kill rex, avoid the crush, most dinos have better mobility than rex at that stage!

[steep gazelle]

1t, 60km, Crush, Pin, Fracture, Knockdown, Alt attack at the speed of light xd

[native urchin]

its almost at half growth.............. like when is rex supposed to be able to fend for itself? just when fg? xD

let me tell you, i would prefer being slow and grow at the pace of stegos and trike in weight

[faint robin]

It shouldn't be dominating same weight opponents at every stage
Small trike is just done if spotted by cera

[steep gazelle]

A Rex that really knows how to play won't lose to a Cerato or Carno with all this, especially because he only needs to use the crush

[native urchin]

yea, he has to hit it though XD which u can avoid as cera and carno

[native urchin]

wdym it shouldnt?

its an apex, of course it should dominate same stage opponent

[obtuse ocean]

No, not with that speed. Should still rely on ambush.

[native urchin]

1.3 tons stego and trike dominate a 1.3 cera

[faint robin]

Erm no? No other playable do that

[native urchin]

wdym no, u one shot ceras

[faint robin]

Not mentioning young things like dibble or maia are basically free food
Can't even run

[native urchin]

i lost my peak prime cera to a juvie trike, knocked me, trashed me and i was dead

[faint robin]

Skill issue

[steep gazelle]

That's exactly why I said one who knows how to play. Normally only Crush would be needed, but he can also just take down Cerato or headbutt or with Alt attack.

[steep gazelle]

Serious?

[obtuse ocean]

Nerf the speed while growing, but rex should still be a powerhouse fg. So should trike.

[faint robin]

Rex shouldn't even be winning a face off with trike since its tad faster

[native urchin]

definitely, was camping on a rock and i tried my luck! trike also has a pretty wide knockdown hitbox, since it knocks from teh side 😉 which helps u trike players

[obtuse ocean]

Nope it shouldt, i have not tried rex vs trike so cant tell. I see videos of both getting killed so not sure yet

[faint robin]

Thats so easy balance yet so ruined by devs
Playable should have ways to avoid or reliably fight off another faster playable

[steep gazelle]

Everything needs to change. Rex must not be able to fracture or pin things heavier than 50% of his weight, Not even if have 20% health/bleed/stam

[native urchin]

i mean, we killed a 7+ ton rex, he killed 2 of us with pin, then we avoided 3 crushes and he was out of stam.... no tactile for rex, so may he rest in peace

[native urchin]

dont worry, they will fix the crush doing dmg to the head, im pretty sure its not intentional! its part of the trike kit to take less dmg on the face

[faint robin]

That Shady guy keep spilling about mighty trike thrashing when in reality you won't even land thrash unless rex has massive skill issue

[native urchin]

u dont need to trash the rex to win XD

[faint robin]

You won't avoid rex crush tho

[obtuse ocean]

I dont like it, cus i dont want apex fights to be 13+ bites. They should end fast, very few mistakes should be made.

[native urchin]

lock him into spar mode, and he wont be able to crush! and u can just hold left click and kill him with flip attack

[obtuse ocean]

i do agree tho , ambush and pin a giga etc. To much

[steep gazelle]

But it won't last that long. The crush damage will still remain, it just won't cause fractures or pins on things as large and especially slower than Rex

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but how would you figth something like giga without it. Like rex without bb in legacy, i could just walk away after the attack. If that what you mean ?

[faint robin]

Trike cant spar lock rex

[native urchin]

I’m just built different then

[faint robin]

Lucky enough to do so since its very unreliable

[native urchin]

I do be lucky, considering that trike in the clip mixpacking with the Rex crashed 😅

[steep gazelle]

Damage. Giga won't do as much damage as Rex. 3-4 Crush deal 9-12k damage.

Not to mention you can also just use the headbutt to stun Giga

[faint robin]

Ngl it was funny watching him
Massive karma

[steep gazelle]

Why do Everyone always act as if the headbutt doesn't exist? Xd

[native urchin]

Real justice 😅

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, could work.

[haughty grotto]

Disagree. It can't contest trike or stego at all then.
The only nerfs rex needs are 1) speed cap during juvie should be 50 not 55, 2) crush needs to be far less spammable, needs to have higher stam cost when missing as well as longer recovery time

[obtuse ocean]

It would need something to end the fight, without everything big just running away and tanking hits

[faint robin]

Shouldnt have both fracture and pin on one move. Its too much of a kill confirm

[steep gazelle]

Just do like any other playable, finish with your attacks like you did during the whole fight

[haughty grotto]

I agree with a kill confirm move on an apex like rex though. As long as it can't be spammed easily.
You nerf the crush's power, you disrespect the prowess of 'strongest land predator'. You can't have a weak rex in a dino game

[faint robin]

I'll say should take way more back hits to fracture trike and shouldn't pin it in any way. Rex relying on 1 move just shows how poorly designed it is

[faint robin]

Not against slower apexes
Rex can confirm kills on smth like dib or teno if it ambushed them. Not on fg trike.

[faint robin]

Strongest land predator is not an excuse to being op. If were talking irl here, 1 horn jab and its joever for rex

All playables should be balanced

Trike can be stronger since its slower

[obtuse ocean]

Well yea, but then again. Herbi life is aloot easier survival vice so balance that aswell then

[haughty grotto]

Except, it's not OP. There's a difference of opinion. I think it's appropriately powered because an adult rex should be that way.
Trike has the tools to defend itself. If it gets ambushed and rex gets the first crush, of course it'll likely end up dying first. But if the trike sees the rex coming and is in a defensive position, the rex doesn't win. Both can 3 tap the other by either spamming crush or thrash. Trike knocks rex down, it's over just as fast.

A lot of these fight comparisons I'm seeing are often prime rex vs non prime trike.
That's not exactly a fair balanced comparison. Prime will always have the upper hand

[quick furnace]

we should start talking about cera

early game monster

[faint robin]

Rex is very easy to grow

[quick furnace]

you never grown a rex dude

i start to believe that ur 13

[haughty grotto]

?
Can you name a single (one) - 1 - carnivore that is more difficult to grow than rex?

[quick furnace]

some1 in a video said rex is easy, so this guy says rex growing is easy

[haughty grotto]

Don't say troodon. Troodon is in a sad spot rn

[faint robin]

The problem here is rex not even caring about ambushing trike since its very easy to kill them even face to face
I get that rex should have better chances if it landed an ambush but so should trike have better chances if it spotted and is facing rex

[faint robin]

Thrash is way easier to miss than crush

[haughty grotto]

I've seen trikes 3 tap rexes bruh.
There's a few vids floating around of rexes killing trikes face to face but those are 1) prime vs non prime, 2) rare encounters where the trike players are not skilled and not well positioned at all

To be honest, im partially agreeing with you. The spammability of the crush is part of the reason it kills a trike a bit more easily. It needs more recovery time and more stam cost.
But don't nerf it's power

[faint robin]

Thrash is a death sentence for trike if it fights good rex

[faint robin]

Trike cant cc rex.

[haughty grotto]

I've seen it happen several times..
Not prime rexes tho

https://youtube.com/shorts/xvK3dCONaq0?si=6oPlL9F9U98wye9-

@faint robin watch this. That trike is early prime, around 10 tons i think. See how quickly that adult rex got wrecked

[faint robin]

Ofc 9 ton rex will get cooked by 10+ ton trike

Were talking abt fg vs fg

Even tho its not the best rex

[faint robin]

Funny thing that trike and rex actually coexisted and evolved to counter each other

[obtuse ocean]

Hey, i do belive they only found evidence of rex kiling trikes. Never a rex beeing dead by a trike : P

But yea get your point

[faint robin]

There aren't evidence of rex killing trike
There are a lot of healed bite marks suggesting trike fought rex off, there are some scavenging behavior and there are those dueling dinosaurs which were most likely just washed together during flood
Also search Lee Rex, dude has a trike horn injury in its femur.

[quick furnace]

so many cheater on HT right now

[haughty grotto]

There's no such thing anymore though
Stats are now dynamic, you'll never be stuck at 'fg stats'
There will always be either a bigger trike or bigger rex
The cases you are referring to are probably prime rexes vs smaller trikes

[lone timber]

because the isle is a hardcore survival game, i don’t see them dramatically weakening rex tbh. i know it feels unfair and unbalanced but thats the intent. i think because rex is already added before other apexes that it feels overwhelming but i dont see any other carnis being added to the roster that will be more all around dominant

[dusky surge]

i feel like you misunderstand "hardcore survival game" then

the hardcore nature should apply to ALL creatures, not just "everyone but rex". Why, exactly, is rex not subject to the same level of difficulty? Hell, if rexes only objective is to make every other player hardcore, make it AI, not playable

Rex is easy as sin because its gameplay plays itself

rex should also be part of the hardcore gameplay loop. It should also take considerable risks fighting large apex herbivores, rather than literally just walking in circles and spamming one attack

you're not making a hardcore survival game anymore

you're making a rex spam simulator, and a frustration generator for anyone who misplayed at the selection screen by not picking another rex

[lone timber]

never said it was perfect and maybe they will change somethings about the crush ability. i dont see it being enough to stop rex from winning 70-80% of its engagements which i think it should. as for the circling to land one attack, i dont see how thats super far off from how a rex would’ve hunted a lone trike, young or old when it was alone, not that anyone can know for sure. irl all it needed was one bite to really any part of the body to seriously disable prey

it may not be fun but hey, rex was op irl. and it’s just my opinion that rex should be winning over trike most of the time.

the one thing im curious about with rex is if its gonna make it out of hordetest with how strong it is through the growth process. because of crush, i feel like theres no real weakness outside of it reaching 100kg during the growth stage. its great in the sub stage and big juvi stage

[steep gazelle]

In real life a Rex would probably get impaled by a Trike easily if he acted like they're acting towards him in Hordtest

Hitkill

Considering real life as an argument for some playable being unbalanced and Op is terrible, because those who are playing are humans who can think and not animals that act in a determined way

Not to mention that it should be fun and fair for both parties and not just for those who are playing with a certain playable...

[lone timber]

in my humble opinion, i don’t think a rex circling a lone trike until it can land a single bite is that far fetched. at the end of the day, rex will be the best apex carni added to the roster even years down the line. i get wanting it to be fair for both sides but they clearly have power roles in mind and me personally, i can respect dying to a rex

idk man. i played a lot of legacy isle and as a trike player, you were never expected to make it out of a rex encounter unless you had superior position or the rex did not break your leg at all on multiple tries. if the matchup between rex and trike becomes 50/50 why play rex when trike has the easier grow and easier lifestyle to maintain

[dusky surge]

Why play Trike when Rex is quite literally better, faster and stronger lmao

I can’t wait to log in as a Rex lunch box

They shouldn’t even have a 50/50, it should be trike favoured

[lone timber]

my only thing i wish to add to the HT feedback is for them to take a look at the strength of rex through its whole growth cycle. i feel like it can kill anything around its weight/1.5x its weight at any point in growth

[lone timber]

right now it is yeah. i’m saying if they nerf the interaction to make it 50/50 then i dont see a point in playing rex

[dusky surge]

You’re the strongest carnivore in the game tf do you mean

Because you don’t have an advantage against trike it’s not worth playing? Really?

That’s the ONLY reason to play Rex for you? Killing trikes

[lone timber]

for me, i’d only play trike or rex to have the chance to hunt big game so yeah

i don’t play rex to play bully ball on weaker tiers. ofc id eat them but for fun? i’m looking for the big game kills

[dusky surge]

And Rex would still be able to do that

No one is saying Rex should have no chance

[lone timber]

that’s how i play though

[dusky surge]

If anything, the fight would be more rewarding against large game, since it’s a proof of genuine skill

As opposed to just making a fool of trikes because there’s a whole load of nothing they can do

[lone timber]

i don’t know what ability they could give rex to replace crush and i genuinely don’t see the issue. i think people are going through shock because the land carnivores’ strongest members were carno and cera. when this roster expands, they’ll just be a bunch of new dino’s that will be “op”

[dusky surge]

Pachy has an advantage against raptor because raptor picks the engagement

Teno has an advantage against carno because carno picks the engagement

Why is the rules different for trike and Rex besides “it’s Rex”

[lone timber]

sorry, i’m not following here. whats the message

[dusky surge]

I hate this argument. No, it’s not because people are unused to a big carnivore, we’ve had an 8 ton gator for years now, they’re not used to an animal that is both exceptionally oppressive to the point that creatures that should rival it are turned to literal jokes in its presence. I want trike to fear Rex, sure, but I also want trike to feel like it is more than Rex food

Trike should be given the same respect Rex has been given

Trike is quite literally the animal built to kill the thing

[lone timber]

doesn’t trike have counter play with rex with the spar? i just thought spar has some issues right now? i mean it is hordetest

[dusky surge]

lol you wish but the spar is a non-factor

You, as a Rex, can easily ignore it by just, you guessed it, spamming crush

[lone timber]

i’ve just been playing isle for so long that trike losing the engagement comfortably has always been the norm

[dusky surge]

And it was bad in legacy too tbh

[lone timber]

it’s hordetest still so who knows, maybe they’ll fix or adjust sparring or something to make it more competitive at least between trike while it’s facing rex

[dusky surge]

I’d like for Rex to be nerfed and trike to get buffs like a better alt because dear god trikes alt attack sucks so bad

[lone timber]

what do you propose for rex

[dusky surge]

Hold on I had a small list of minor changes

• make it that it can no longer pin things larger than it, only that it can pin things less than 100% of its weight while the wounded/exhausted pre-requistes are met
• give a short 10 second cooldown to crush
• increase crush stamcost from 4% to 8% (it's currently cheaper than raptor pounce lol)
• make crush initiate spars with trikes if attacking their heads

this is all I'd do to it

[lone timber]

that last thing is what i meant before btw. i was under the impression that they’re intending for the interaction to play out that way. seems difficult to actually implement but im a layman. cooldown sounds fine. stam cost ? why not.
the 1st one is probably the only one i squint at

[dusky surge]

You haven’t seen the vid of a mixpack using a juvi rex to pin down an adult Maia yet evidently

That’s real btw it’s beyond dumb

[lone timber]

oh yeah no i don’t like that it can pin higher at juvi stage. if anything your first change could apply up to a certain percentage, that’s what id definitely agree with. i know juvi rex will need some access to crush to pin but theres too many funny videos of juvi rexes pinning way bigger animals

[mint star]

the fact that it only happens because of the mathematics is insane

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1290405282715013140/1419664880243314758/rexpincera.png?ex=68d33e33&is=68d1ecb3&hm=c4bf0a688bd771a81e8890bdb550bffb7d36c0033afdca68a367f61bafa80a35&

[lone timber]

i saw a video of an adult cera being pinned by a juvi rex mixpack bc he was hurt and tired. bro was half the size of his leg 😂

YES ITS THIS VIDEO

[dusky surge]

It shouldn’t pin higher ever lol

I don’t understand why it can, giga is the big boy hunter

[indigo rain]

I assume its because they used the same math as Omni where 2 can pin a fg Diablo if it meets bleed or stam requirements

So rex breaks in a wierd way with its pin now. And allo will likely bug out like omni does when it comes.

Finally some fixes for omni because they have to fix the two most popular carnivores?? XD

Gen tho crush was stated to be doing a lot more than it should so hopefully we get a patch for it soon

[random stump]

#balance-feedback message

"I didnt ambush as an ambush predator and didnt die for my major screwup. this is a balance issue"

[forest pivot]

gg shifty, you got to it first, I was going to talk about it but you got it covered. thanks for making my life a bit easier

on a side note: this really needs to be fixed, exploits like these are the reason nobody can have fun around others because mixpackers tend to be everywhere and tend to also abuse every glitch, bug, exploit and more if it gives them the advantage in every and any way possible

about the mombie vid*

I bet you got better ideas for that suggestion that you downvoted littlemosis?

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message i don’t think combat mutations should be power crept

[dusky surge]

People see the problem but have their solution only contribute to said problem

[crimson crater]

it’s funny

[dusky surge]

Instead of “give more meta mutations to herbivores to make it fair since carnis have more” it should be “remove meta mutations in general so it’s more fair on everyone, regardless of build”

[open flicker]

@sullen edge tactile endurance is the best mutation in the entire game imo, and it’s massively defensive.

It not only reduces all incoming damage by 25%, but also gives you it in stamina instead

[stark knoll]

It doesn't reduce damage

[sullen edge]

but thats literally it

[open flicker]

AND only available for herbs

[sullen edge]

congen is the dmg reduction one

which is for both

[open flicker]

It literally says “converts 25% of incoming damage to stamina”

If that doesn’t reduce damage that’s horrible wording

[stark knoll]

Yea, that means the amount of stamina you get depends on the damage of the hit

[sullen edge]

ig its worth testing since both sides have a good point

[stark knoll]

You can test it, it doesn't reduce damage taken

[open flicker]

100% feels like it

I can tank cerato hits 40x better on a pachy than I can a raptor and it’s only a 50hp difference

[sullen edge]

probably locational damage if anything, iirc pachys head takes less dmg and generally is what is being bit

might also just be dmg muts

[open flicker]

Idk even Gali feels a lot tankier than Omni

That mutation seems like the most broken thing ever ngl

I take it on every single herbivore

Even stuff like bepei

[sullen edge]

you can get a 2x dmg multiplier on rex after entombing

[sullen dragon]

Tactile reduces damage by 25% as well as give stamina

Who’s saying it doesn’t do reduced damage? The hell

[open flicker]

Yeah, I mean it says converts

[sullen edge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-turning-head-confused-cat-rizalalthur-orange-cat-behavior-gif-10491959385063137392

[open flicker]

Not gain 25% of damage as stamina

[sullen edge]

ig ive always had tactile

[open flicker]

Bro try playing without it

It’s night and day

[sullen edge]

anyone down to test tactile vs no tactile

[sullen dragon]

Yeah so if a cerato bite does 150 a hit then if you have tactile endurance then you’ll only take 113 received damage and on top of that you get 25% stam from the hit

Herbivores have the most broken mutation in the game right now

[open flicker]

Pachy with congenital and tactile is tanky as a dog, you can tank like 3-5 cerato hits and with a 200 bite force that makes no sense

[sullen edge]

still though, stacking together damage mutations can make you deal twice as much damage

[sullen dragon]

^^^^

[sullen dragon]

And tactile can be buffed as well as congenital. You can basically take 80% reduced damage as a herbivore with enough entombs

[sullen edge]

if tactile works like that its certainly the best mut, but thats all herbs have man

[open flicker]

What damage mutations? Hyper meta inanition is strong yes but only when low hunger, and the others are only small percentages

They’re not consistent all the time like tactile is

And are less % wise

And also herbivores tend to just be much bigger in general

[sullen edge]

they stack multiplicatively and go so with entombs

[open flicker]

So do congenital and tactile tho

[sullen edge]

im more focused on the trike/rex interactions, sorry, should mention it in the actual suggestion

[open flicker]

Whole different ballpark tbh, Rex is just op compared to trike, entombing is irrelevant

Tbh trike needs buffs or Rex needs nerfs

[sullen dragon]

I don’t think so

[open flicker]

That fight isn’t even close to fair imo

[sullen dragon]

Trike right now can reliably take on a Rex

[sullen edge]

dawg

[open flicker]

For a 9.5 tonne trike it shouldnt be popped in 2 seconds

[sullen edge]

^^ died at 68% ~ so many times to a rex mildly bigger

trike being mildly bigger cant use congen and pin ignores tactile / congen in general + spar is bugged + bone break disables trikes entire kit

stego is apparently viable though, can outtrot

[open flicker]

I’d like to see 1v1 trike be Rex trike winning 75% of the time

Most of the fights I see the trike doesn’t seem “dumb” the Rex just facetanks and wins

It should be a serious threat for a Rex imo

If we literally have fossils of trike with healed Rex bites and Rex fossils with fatal wounds from trike then clearly they were a challenge

[dusky surge]

thats not how it works no

it just gives stam it doesn't reduce damage

[sullen dragon]

No I want to see it a 50/50 fight

[open flicker]

50/50 fighting on open terrain yeah, but most of the time the trike will be playing more defensively and using terrain, protecting its rear, in such cases it should win 75%

as it is now a trike can back into a wall and somehow lose anyways, im yet to even see a trike win

[sullen dragon]

Yeah I’d like that

[sullen dragon]

This is false. Trike wind if backed in a corner rn

[dusky surge]

it really shouldn't be 50/50

rex has the massive advantage of ambush, being able to outrun trike, fracture, etc

[sullen dragon]

Trike is much easier to grow and can run down a Rex. It seems like a 50/50 when I look at them anyways. It’s not a 50/50 rn but it should be in the near future

[dusky surge]

i dont really think ease of growth should determine how worthy they are of survival

[hasty coyote]

not that either of them have that much difficulty growing

[dusky surge]

true lol

[mint star]

@open flicker there’s heaps of them because they have friends that grow and farm full maias or trikes to feed them, it’s horrible

[open flicker]

ive seen a lot of them run around with maias and trikes, but how do they get enough food from one dino growing alongside them, it doesnt make much sense

also what kinda no life you gotta be to be the player that just grows a herbie to be eaten 💀

[dusky surge]

rex should also just starve faster than deino by base

[open flicker]

100%, does it not?

idk i havent played a rex to any decent size yet

[hasty coyote]

I have evidence that its not only people farming herbies, because I ran into 3 separate pairs of rexes on the no ai who had no other herbies around being a lunchbox. So unless the 3 separate pairs were all just 1 mega group that was spread out across the server, they are just sustaining from eating other players because of how strong rex is, especially a rex pair.

[hasty coyote]

I'd be fine with a long hunger drain, if it also took a lot to fill up. Like you could go a long while between meals, but you gotta eat your own body weight to last that long.

[dusky surge]

rex takes 2 hours

deino takes 90 minutes

(if i recall correctly)

[open flicker]

yeah wow, rex needs hunger dain nerfs for sure, 2 rexes should be the max unless theyre literally slaughtering herds of trikes'

which i know they aint doing lol

[sullen dragon]

But they will be survival worthy??? It’s a 50/50 fight

[open flicker]

hes syaing that if it's 50/50 it wont be most of the time because rex can run away if it's losing trike cant, rex has bone break to give it an edge etc

[sullen dragon]

Rex can’t run away lmao. Trike can chase him down with his superior stam

[open flicker]

so 75% chance trike wins, if rex uses it's advantages it wont lose, and can only take the fight if it determines it to be a win

[sullen dragon]

If a Rex wants to fight a trike, only one will come out alive. Neither can run away

[open flicker]

yeah but a trike chasing out of defensive terrain is cooked

[sullen dragon]

He’s not tho. It should be a 50/50 fight in the open is my point

[open flicker]

plus it cant run the rex down when it's got broken bones

[golden coral]

@dusky surgeDid pachy get a size buff for normal adult?

[dusky surge]

ya

700kg base adult

[sullen dragon]

Yeah if it got broken bone then it’s lost that fight anyways. It can’t fight back when its bones are broken. That is exactly why it’s not a 50/50 fight rn cuz of how easily it can for a Rex to leg break a trike which needs a nerf to make the fight 50/50

[open flicker]

wait really? thats actually insane what

how did i not know about this

[dusky surge]

its sub adult state has both the insane speeds of sub plus the weight of prior adult pachy

[open flicker]

200kg buff, how big is prime elder?

[dusky surge]

sub pachy is unironically now one of the game's strongest animals

[dusky surge]

900+ kg

[open flicker]

real thats crazy

[open flicker]

wow, he just gonna butcher ceras and carnos now

proper competing with them, what a unit

[golden coral]

That explains why you can tank more with it, I saw the comment but wasn't sure if the buff was a thing or not. Well, now you know :D

[open flicker]

it's good we get a bruiser herbie now and it's more differentiated from gali, wow im playing one asap ahaha

[dusky surge]

ive quite literally watched an elder pachy take a growing elder carno and throw them

i'd highly recommend pachy this patch

[open flicker]

if youre talking about what i said before with tactile that was a while ago before this buff

[golden coral]

Yeah, that one, figured it was because of the new buff, since that'd make a lot of sense. But otherwise its a bit strange, don't think I've ever noticed any damage reduction from the mutation, you sure it works like that?

[open flicker]

idk every time i get it though seems crazy noticable

[sullen dragon]

#balance-feedback message

@covert nacelle learn how the game works. Rex pin works exactly like raptor which is why a 800kg Rex can pin 2 ton animals - they were low stam and health

[dusky surge]

no, it doesn't

because raptor grapple necessitates multiple raptors

rex gets that for absolutely free

[sullen dragon]

?

[open flicker]

100%

[dusky surge]

it genuinely should not have that mechanic by default

[open flicker]

raptor cant pin something more than in regardless of stam if im correct

[dusky surge]

yup

[open flicker]

not 100% sure but ive never seen it or had it done

[sullen dragon]

Buddy I’m saying why a 800kg Rex CAN. Not that it SHOULD. The guy I responded to doesn’t know Rex has that mechanic and just thinks a 800kg Rex can pin 2 tons by default. READ

[dusky surge]

it only can grapple something if

• it's low stam and health
• there's more than one raptor on the animal at one time

[open flicker]

yeah you also said thats how pin works and raptor works the same, it doesnt

[dusky surge]

no? when did he claim it was the default. He simply said it was a problem

and it should work like raptor's pin

currently it works like raptor's grapple, which is a different thing

[sullen dragon]

He said that Rex should work like raptor pin, and it does. If an animal is low stam and health and u grapple it as raptor, you can pin it more easily. Same applies for Rex pin

[dusky surge]

no

it works like raptor grapple, not raptor pin

they are genuinely different mechanics

[sullen dragon]

If a raptor is fighting a Pachy and the Pachy has low stam/ low health he’ll get pinned. If he’s not low stam or low health he won’t. That’s how it works, no?

[dusky surge]

no

that's not how it works

[faint timber]

what are you talking about this?

[sullen dragon]

Educate me

[faint timber]

By the way, I want to add that the person in front of me can teleport and there is a stam cheat and a speed cheat (and I died a little because of my stupidity)

He knocked me down at 90%-80% hp and 45-35% energy, still not fair

[dusky surge]

i thought i already explained it but sure

grapple is a mechanic only initiated on raptor by having 2+ raptors on the target

the target will be grappled if

• the total weight of the raptors exceed the weight of the target
• the target's stam/health drops to a threshold where the raptor's total weight only need to exceed 25% of the target's weight

if any raptor disengages for any reason and these pre-requisites no longer are met, the target will no longer be grappled

pin, however, is as simple as:
if raptor weight > prey weight, pin

[faint timber]

What? Can an 800 kg rex stun 2 tons of dinosaurs? Great balancing.

[sullen dragon]

Make sense

But it Rex pin still works like raptor pounce math except that it doesn’t need 2+ raptors to do it

[open flicker]

yeah, and it looks absolutely horrendous too. such dumb design, pray it gets changed

[faint timber]

The bad news came and I asked if this was going to get fixed and he partially criticized me.

[open flicker]

im all for making stamina matter, but thats not the way to do it

[faint timber]

I gave an example about Denio. I asked him why a 6-ton Rex can hold an 8-ton Denio. What do you think he said to me?

Don: I wish that scaly lizard hadn't wandered so close to the ground (and wasn't so crushable).

Denio I'm really upset, unfair world, unfair Rex mechanics, either he made fun of me or made something like a joke but I mean it's impossible. If Rex comes to the game like this, why should we play Denio, are we stupid?

[open flicker]

thats wild

nothing should be ever holding anything that weighs more than it, thats my take

regardless of stamina

it's fair for MULTIPLE raptors to grapple

[faint timber]

Well, be careful by the way, there is Rex in the game who can teleport.

[open flicker]

not a single dino

[faint timber]

https://tenor.com/view/shoryuken-dinosaur-the-isle-physics-old-version-gif-14798209

I did a lot of Rex today.

They're not that strong unless they can hold you

[hasty coyote]

yes and thats the problem. Raptors have that math because they are small, giving them that execute really helps them take down large prey as a group that they have slowly weakened over time. Especially since, even while weakened, the prey generally can still obliterate the omnis. Rex just spams crush a few times and gets to ignore the last 4th of the target's hp, or they just run down the target and pin it on the spot.

[sullen dragon]

Dude

For the 100th time I responded to the guy who thinks a 800kg Rex can by default pin 2 ton prey and he proposed a change to give Rex pin raptor math when Rex already has it. I pointed that out to him. I’m not saying it should have it

[random stump]

<@&933486433342222376> spammer

got him fast jeez

[viscid mica]

@eager saddle you said land to his deino one but they can pin you in water if it’s shallow enough for them to stand

[eager saddle]

That’s why I said that yeah, I wasn’t sure about that

[viscid mica]

Ya and mind you Rex can stand in hella deep water

[eager saddle]

[trim swift]

I have question guys, click on " G " for stop the animation of the rex pin work in hordetest servers ?

[steep gazelle]

👍

Yes, most Rex are abusing this bug

I hope they fix it soon

[vale brook]

iirc it was fixed in the most recent patch wasnt it?

[native urchin]

No its fixed! U cant g cancel anymore! It only works while actually pinning to let go of the pin

[haughty grotto]

@vagrant plover vomiting is one of the most common causes of dehydration for any living thing including you or me. You lose a ton of fluids when you throw up, cause all your food contains a ton of water as well.
So yeah, it makes perfect sense.

[burnt dove]

idk why everyone is so mad about pin mechanic. I get it's frustrating from rex, a single rex can pin you, but omni.... cmon, u cant even pin a pachy, only galli and smaller things

[haughty grotto]

I never understood pin haters either
Like, ppl are okay with herbis doing constant stuclocks and knockdowns, ppl are okay with a magic spell caster that does thousands of damage and blocks your vision from miles away, but they can't develop situational awareness or use the 5 billion ways the game gives you to avoid/escape pins

Omni is literally one of the weakest carnivores, everything except troodon and hypsi can kill it faster than Omni kills them. I don't understand it at all.

For rex, I do agree that crush is too spammable and needs a longer recovery time and higher stam cost when you miss it, but removing pin entirely is not the way to go. If rex can't pin to secure a kill / execute, then it doesn't eat. Rex ambushes and only gets one chance to kill, it can't chase and it can't kill groups of anything unless the group walks up to it. Removing pin will make it too weak. You can't have a weak rex, that's not a thing that exists. That's the reward for making it to fg apex.
Just needs some adjustment in the pin math when it's young, that's all. Ya'll go overboard with the criticism.

[burnt dove]

I agree that rex is weak without the pin, but still shouldnt have it, the problem here is that rex is the "tanky strong slow" predator, and it's the only apex besides trike, so rn the only meal for rexes are trikes. For example the old legacy giga would be more valanced and still playable. Big bleed and not bad dmg would make it playable with mid sized dinos

if they make rex strong to hunt mid sized things, they will have to nerf it later when they add more apexes, cause rn u are comparing it to mid sized dinos

[haughty grotto]

Why?
Of course an apex will be able to hunt mid size things, just like mid size things can kill small tier dinos with ease

[burnt dove]

well, i haven't played the rex yet, but heard that is waay so fast+ pin... idk, feels overpowered

[haughty grotto]

....I think you should play before making a judgement lol

12+ hours of growth with very different health, speeds and damage values throughout your life. Its a fun and interesting dynamic. Juvie speed needs to be turned down slightly and crush needs to be less spammable but i think otherwise it feels pretty good and balanced.

[steep gazelle]

It's only fun for those playing Rex

[haughty grotto]

I mean it really depends. Some of the pain is self inflicted cause ppl are playing smaller dinos and are expecting to walk up to a rex and have a balanced fight when in reality theres no universe where they wont get wrecked. I think most players find it hard to swallow their pride and run away / hide from rexes, especially at the moment in the hordetest.
Most dinos are way faster, way more stam, and can really fight back hard if in groups. Its very hard to die to a rex if you're situationally aware and don't want to fight/die.

[haughty grotto]

I think with these 2 changes the balance against trike and stego will be far more fair

[steep gazelle]

The problem with Rex is not being Op against smaller dinos, like a Diablo or Maia, but being Op against heavier and slower Dinos, like Stego, Deino and Trike

This also includes his Juv/Sub phase where he is even more unbalanced.

A good balance would be:

Reduce the maximum speed of the Sub phase to 50km

Bonebreak only happens with things up to 50% of Rex current weight, like deino

Remove Pin on low health/bleed/Stam creatures (Rex doesn't need this)

[haughty grotto]

Yeah this sounds pretty good

[stark ether]

I feel like Utah just has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling.

Anyone can hop on a cera or carno and be decently effective, Utah needs the most practice to be good at.

I also feel like a low bite speed doesn’t matter vs smaller playables because you can 1-pounce them regardless, and against larger playables you shouldn’t be getting an opening for more than 1 bite at a time, you’re meant to weave in and out between their alt-attacks. That is, if you aren’t group-pinning it to death.

There’s a YouTuber by the name of Nappn that’s a good example of what Utah can do with practice, even solo. Handily takes on pretty much anything by just knowing the openings and weaknesses of whatever he’s fighting.

[indigo rain]

I think if omnis pounce bugs were fixed it would be immensly less miserable to play. Carno getting a requirement to click to hit its charge will help with the desync once the spam is corrected

[haughty grotto]

@sweet estuary when you say things like 'rex can use crush and it costs almost nothing', you just lose all credibility instantly. It simply shows you've never played rex

[sweet estuary]

i played rex im talking about output of damage compaired to the output of stamina. rex can use idk 5%-20 for leg break, if u get leg broken its over. thats what i meant by almost nothing

rexes stam use is ALOT in a more than 2 vs 1 but in a 1v1 it doesnt matter

[haughty grotto]

As an adult my stam went from 100 to 0 after a short sprint, a couple crush attacks with 3-4 seconds of a pin

[sweet estuary]

why are u sprinting, you can trot em down

[sweet estuary]

aslo why it even have ambush speed, dont need it

[haughty grotto]

No lol, I can't trot down anything that's sprinting away. And anyway by short sprint I meant 3-4 second ambush sprint

[sweet estuary]

you can 100% trot down something

trust me dawg give it a go its rly fun

[haughty grotto]

I've tried but like it really depends on terrain, often it's easy for them to sprint away and break line of sight and if I don't sprint I lose them

[sweet estuary]

also depends on the animal cuz like if its a stego, u get that trail their done for, but like anithing smaller than that yeah, thats bad

[vale brook]

god forbid im playing stego and a rex that knows about the letter Q finds my footprints somehow

god have mercy on me

legacy giga is BACK!!!!

not really

[thorn mountain]

@sullen edge #general-feedback message something like this?

[sullen edge]

literally exactly what i was thinking

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

HT is testing more than just what dinosaurs can slam into other dinosaurs and win lmao

the hacker issue should be resolved, not adding a brand new mode that ironically defeats the point of half the HT (elders)

[coarse blaze]

@short fossil #balance-feedback message This has been brought up before and unfortunately can be exploited, having someone follow someone around without much mind for their own dinosaur to debuff someone else is an issue.

A system being able to detect who is "trolling" who would be insanely hard to implement.

[short fossil]

I figured as much, but even then no matter what it's trial and error. I'd much rather see attempts then nothing done at all.

[coarse blaze]

They've explicitly stated that they have something in mind but won't share what that is yet. They're more than aware of the issue.

[short fossil]

Fantastic, can't wait to see it.

[sweet estuary]

an idea in mind

[viscid mica]

@random stump you should try omni v galli no pin

It’s not even a fair fight galli washes omni so fast it’s crazy

I get why omni pins galli cuz galli is just faster and can leave at any point if your getting pinned by omnis A you got ambushed or B you FAaFO

[primal kraken]

it killing it in one pin is crazy tho, omni stam should just run out so the galli atleast has a chance

[viscid mica]

Galli does have a chance

It’s a roughly 5kph+ chance

Galli has roughly equal sprint time stam if not better due to its trot being as fast if not faster than a stegos full speed sprint

[primal kraken]

lag, desync ...

[viscid mica]

Distance

Why must galli be getting that close to omnis

I if you keep decent space between you but your lag / desync is that bad you got bigger problems to worry about

[primal kraken]

no idea but an animal pinning and killing something thats literally 40kg heavier than it doesnt make sense

[viscid mica]

It’s purely because of how badly galli can stomp omnis without pin as the speed difference really is that big of a deal

There’s a good reason galli doesn’t do bleed damage anymore

You ever seen 4 gallis jump a carno? Or cera? It’s violent

[primal kraken]

yeah that was peak

[viscid mica]

Tbh it’s purely a counter measure so that they don’t have to buff omni to survive galli but just making omnis something gallis need to avoid

[primal kraken]

cant tell me that one shotting something bigger than u is good, omni could just run out of stam before it kills the galli

[viscid mica]

Than the galli will kill the omni by just kicking it a ton while it still has all the stam in the world

Again galli is significantly faster and can simply chose to not fight

[primal kraken]

why would a low health galli try to kill a full health omni with no stam?

• the galli is heavily bleeding so it needs to sit asap, why would it fight with the omni?

[viscid mica]

Simple the omni would have to sit to get its stam back. The galli can heal off the bleed long before the omni can sit and get above 20 baiting alt bites is easy and galli does tons of damage with its kicks almost 2x omni bite

Galli players are all trolls and goblins they know what their doing and can 100% cook a no stam omni

[primal kraken]

didnt know healing bleed takes 10 seconds

galli heal is terrible, ever played galli?

[viscid mica]

You realize stam regen scales over time it will take a omni well over a minute to get 20% back just to stand regen

[primal kraken]

the galli is not healing its whole health and bleed in over a minute

[viscid mica]

I’ve played everything in evirma a minimum of 3 times at this point galli specifically about 6 or 7

[viscid mica]

Doesn’t need to, just enough to tank a bite or 2

[primal kraken]

and then it bleeds again so why would it risk bleeding out ?

[viscid mica]

K wait how low of HP are you expecting it to get from the pounce?

Cuz like if it’s blood is that low it’ll just die anyways to a single alt bite after the animation ends

So either way it’d die

[primal kraken]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxZUNs6ui0H8IB9cPJajuBvqtcSKCO_da4?si=awpk8ySUO4xCxSDM like here but instead u have a chance to run because the omni cant bite that fast anymore and the omni does not have enough stam to run after u

[viscid mica]

Ignoring that those 4 kicks most likely got that omni to orange health if not red

Sorry 3

[primal kraken]

and the galli still died so..?

[viscid mica]

The galli did but the galli face tanked

Simply trotting away while the omni sits there trying to attack woulda been enough to start stopping the bleed

[primal kraken]

if the galli is stupid enough to try to fight back ofc it dies

[viscid mica]

To face tank you mean

I dunno I don’t see it galli does so much more damage that I cannot see omni not pinning not resulting in the omnis death

[primal kraken]

omni full health after a full pounce, galli like 20% health with baaad bleed, why would a galli choose to still fight?

[viscid mica]

If the pin was long enough to get it to 20% hp than it’d bleed out

[primal kraken]

it can only result in the galli dying if it tries to fight back

[primal kraken]

the 20% was only an example

[viscid mica]

K but than how are omnis supposed to hunt gallis or defend themselves without leaving themselves extremely vulnerable for roughly 3 minutes

[primal kraken]

if we r talking about 2 omnis vs 1 galli just bite the galli while its pinned, if we r talking 1 omni vs 2 gallis simple the omni is dead even on the branch rn

[viscid mica]

I mean even with current pin the omnis dies there

I’m talking 1-1

Adding group variables is a whole other mess

[primal kraken]

u said "omnis and gallis"

[viscid mica]

It’s a generalist’s reference but yes

Describing words to be exact

[primal kraken]

so the omni could try baiting some kicks to make the galli have no stam aswell after the pin because for some reason pin drains both animals stam

then the maybe yellow health omni actually has a chance cus the for example 20% health galli is just dead

[viscid mica]

Omni doesn’t have that luxury because it’s slower

[primal kraken]

that literally is how it is in current branch no?

[viscid mica]

Pin draining both is just a bad take and sets a even worse precedent for bigger things that can pin like allo and Rex

[viscid mica]

No?

Galli gets to decide distance and spacing, it’s the luxury of speed

What Evers faster sets the pace of the fight

On rare events were they are equal it’s a different story

Etc teno v cera where the 0.1 can make a big difference

[karmic forge]

Galli literally has a click and hold to win button against Omni, and it's the W key. See, hear, suspect an Omni? Run. It's that simple. If you're playing Galli, and you aren't running from all your problems fast as the Flash, then you really aren't utilizing Galli's biggest strength...

[viscid mica]

[hasty coyote]

we could also just make the pin similar to rex pin, where it lasts a limited time so it doesnt flat out 1-shot but still deals solid damage. So a lone omni will almost definitely win the fight still, but at least gali has a chance to escape after a pin (though they have to be careful not to bleed out)

[viscid mica]

Not bad but same time with the size difference between what omni fights solo and what Rex does it’s too much

Omni pin math is fine for ITS SIZE

But like we can look at Rex and see how destructive that same pin math gets at bigger sizes

[primal kraken]

can u find a video of a galli getting pinned by an omni, i cant find one

[viscid mica]

I’d have to dig through yt maybe? I don’t have one on hand

[karmic forge]

The only time I can foresee running not working is against Carno, because iirc Carno charge is faster. I could be wrong though, I'm not as up to date on speeds as I'd like. And for that case the tactic is dodge and hide.

[viscid mica]

Technically yes but it’s easy to juke and you’ll easily out stam the carno quickly that or just find a big rock

[karmic forge]

Ah, good to refresh. Thanks!

[viscid mica]

Galli is stupid fast both trot and sprint if you can’t out stam and out run anything less than a dedicated PT your doing it wrong

[hasty coyote]

Its still just as destructive by both, its only that small tiers are being expected to hide 24/7 while bigger dinos arent. Both have a smaller, weaker, and slower dino getting 1-tapped by another. Ony difference is that rex at least only has 30 seconds of sprint time, 20 seconds of ambush, and stuns itself on a miss. Meanwhile omni can run faster for over 2.5 minutes and has no penalty for miss other than a slight stam cost

Omni 1-shotting most things under 150kg is fine, my issue is when it starts 1-shotting things its size and bigger, and also dryo.

[karmic forge]

☝️💯

[viscid mica]

Dryo needs a buff tbh I can agree there

But I still just don’t believe omni at its size is that oppressive

I play one of those tiny tiers mainly (not on this HT troodon is so cooked this HT) and honestly have 0 issue with omnis

[hasty coyote]

thats because our small tiers are ones who have mechanics to simply not interact with most the roster, or are troodon and can disappear literally anywhere

so again, they are expected to just hide in a corner

[viscid mica]

Should a dibble approach a Rex?

Should a cera 1v1 a allo?

Are tenos meant to box suchos?

I honestly see no issue with specific playables being direct counters to others so long as they can choose to not fight that playable this SS encapsulates my mentality on how some interactions should go

Somethings just ain’t built to box

[hasty coyote]

none of them are meant to go and fight, no. But other than diablo who is now slower than rex ambush (which is equally as bad), they can avoid the larger threats by just running away when they spot them. The difference is, omni is faster, incredibly agile, and has a lot of stam. It would be like making allo 44kph, pin, and have 2 minutes of run time, and then complaining that ceras and tenos aren't hiding by water to swim away 24/7, or that pachies arent hiding on rocks. Galli v omni I can understand that galli is faster, but omni doesnt NEED to 1-tap a galli. Should omni win that fight much more often than galli? yes obviously, but it can win that fight without flat out 1-tapping them.

[karmic forge]

The valid options for survival are run and/or hide. Or fight.
If you can't duke it out, run and/or hide. The game is a survival game. If that's what it takes to survive, then so be it.
Now, to be fair, I firmly believe that if something can't run from a creature, it should be able to hold it's ground. (Cough cough Stego v rex cough) (Save for in a case like Carno, which is literally built to run you down, and so hiding should be your go to option if you can't fight it.) And additionally, if you can't fight something, you should be able to out run, out Stam, or otherwise escape it.

[viscid mica]

I will agree first point Rex ambush needs to chill

[karmic forge]

This. This is true

[viscid mica]

They’d have to seriously rework both of them or atleast omni than cuz as it stands if omni can’t pin it simply loses

[viscid mica]

Stego v Rex makes me cry

[hasty coyote]

yes, the issue is you ONLY option for omni is to hide 24/7 (other than galli). Omni is faster, just as agile, has a lot of stam, 1-taps you, and is small enough to hide very easily. The chances of you being able to get to your escape mechanic are slim to none, unless you're sitting in an open field as a small tier to spot them coming (which is a death sentence because carno and most escape gimmicks require water or trees)

[viscid mica]

I see no issue here

[karmic forge]

Perhaps an update to stamina, or speed then? But the answer is not to nerf raptors. Personally, I don't see the issue. If you survive by hiding until the raptor pack passes so you can continue to survive for another hour or two before seeing, probably, there same raptor pack and having to duck to hide again, then that's still survival.

[viscid mica]

^

The only accept-ions atm is dryo cuz bro really needs some buffs and burrowing

[karmic forge]

So true, dryo needs serious help

[hasty coyote]

very simple solution would be to make omni's solo pin cancel itself after X duration, similar to rex pin. Though thats prob the worst version since it doesnt allow for variability.

Best solution imo would be to make omni's pin duration be based on the target's species and/or weight. So it doesnt flat out 1-tap everything 1kg smaller + galli, but still will kill most very small things in 1 pounce. Then prob also allow dryo to use a dodge charge or 2 to escape a pin (so long as it reacts fast enough).

[viscid mica]

I wouldn’t mind this

So long as it only applies to solo pin

So long as it’s long enough to 1 tap anything 200kg and below as a 450kg omni

And gallis just be left catatonic

[hasty coyote]

you could buff most small tiers that lack a consistent gimmick to be faster than omni that would also work, but the devs have really been nerfing small things speed consistently because they dislike how unrealistic it is (look at how they massacred troodon and the fact hypsi has been slower than cera since release)

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/godfather-massacre-sad-gif-16810633

[karmic forge]

I can understand that, but imo their balancing of small tier speed has been... Lacking

[viscid mica]

Troodon juvi 13kph 💀

Let alone the fact your elder within 50 minutes on HT

[karmic forge]

Anyway, just wanted to leave my two cents for now. Thanks for being civil guys, I appreciate it

[viscid mica]

Na fr the smaller you are the faster you should get with the exclusive exception of flying things, galli and carno

Except those with gimmicks like beipi and Herrera

And wel I guess hypsi

But hypsi climb is also hard as hell on some trees

[hasty coyote]

That would probably be my goal. Only affects solo pin, group grapple would be unaffected by this. Most things under 200kg can literally disappear in grass, and dryo being able to dodge out of pin would help it. Though it could be changed for specific future dinos that need to not be 1-tapped. Either way, even if you survive the pin, the bleed will be deadly unless you escape quickly, this is mostly just to give things a chance to escape with their gimmicks (so long as they arent in the open and have no escape plan).

[hasty coyote]

it tragically has

[hasty coyote]

np, I understand this is def one of my more hot takes, but it is a hill I will die on.

[viscid mica]

Ya and that would also allow for omnis to have a very high damage counter to gallis kicks that simply do way more damage

[hasty coyote]

hypsi climb does need some love. I like the intention, but the implementation is incredibly finicky.

[hasty coyote]

yeah galis should not just walk up and face tank omnis lol

[viscid mica]

I think it’s fine but to compensate for the difficulty the jump stam should be improved

[viscid mica]

Like ain’t galli alt kick do like 70 or something?

Or it does more doesn’t it

[hasty coyote]

that and probably increase the initial jump height from the ground, because you basically are just sitting there in reach for like 2 seconds on the first cling.

[hasty coyote]

I don't remember off the top of my head, I want to say its somewhere between 85-65. either way, its deceptively high and gali groups are absolutely terrifying.

[viscid mica]

That could work

[viscid mica]

Everyone chilling till 6 gallis pull up and you think everything is sweet

[hasty coyote]

I still love the clip I have of 4 galis shredding a cera in 38 seconds

[viscid mica]

I’ve been the victim of a galli mob before it’s not fun

Sit there spamming alts praying one lands true

Actually that reminds me Rex’s alt attacks both variants are insanely fast and I wanna know why

[hasty coyote]

it looks like a bug its so fast, especially compared to trike who stun itself lol

[viscid mica]

Na fr

Head butt especially

[stark ether]

6 gallis sound scary… until you realize 3-4 utahs can do the same thing but better thanks to group takedowns

[maiden temple]

Packs of ootas will always be super scary and they should be, the smarter they play the less likely you'll live and I love that

Galli packs were insufferable at their peak, all that screaming ugh

[rose ore]

Utahs are scary as hell 😄 but as u said, only if they play their position smart, you will be unable to survive.
Sadly i never encountered such a pack ^^
Situations where i should have been dead for sure where wasted by them

[rose ore]

The screams of troods are waaay worse xD

[maiden temple]

Nah I actually like the ooooowaaaa

Dilo calls are also nice, but not the galli racecar noises

[rose ore]

if they dont spam it...okay, but those are worse than any siren i know xD
And if a pack spams it, i run, just to save my ears 😄
Dilo calls are top tier ^^

[vocal veldt]

Dilo pack at night is nightmare for any Dino

[maiden temple]

The only calls I don't wanna hear, like ever, are pteras, gallis and ceras

[rose ore]

Ptera i agree, Ceras are a nightmare and Gallis arent spamming around me, so i´m fine with them 😄

[rose ore]

if i play them, i´m fine, if not u can see me run like nothing else on the isle xD

[maiden temple]

Yeah the era of huge groups of gallis is over but I lived through it and trust me, it was a nightmare unlike anything else

The sound shreds through your ears

[rose ore]

if it is that annoying like a pack of troods spamming 1 call then i´m on your side ^^

[maiden temple]

It's much worse, it's not a constant high-pitched call so it's much harder to ignore

[viscid mica]

It’s way worse troodons are atleast bearable spam gallis are like nails on chalkboards

Endless galli 1 calls EVERYWHERE

@carmine trench the HT growth % is bugged and doesn’t actually show you where you are properly until far later on

[haughty grotto]

@knotty stratus I think the carno is still larger than you. But anyway that charge is bugged and broken, it's a known issue

[steep echo]

that carno is also moving at like 80km/h

[steep gazelle]

@knotty stratus This Carno looked like an Adult and you were only 750kg. I don't see anything wrong here

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that speed is def sus

[naive gull]

i am new to playing on land, usually in water.. can anyone explain to me how, as a fg omni, a carno is running just as fast and faster than me?

[keen plover]

😭 ??

[hasty coyote]

Carnos are the 2nd fastest thing in the game, only second to galli with a group speed boost. However, they do have relatively low damage, bad turning, and have lower stam than smaller dinos, so you have time to escape as most smaller targets.

For omni in particular:you can use your agility, quiet steps, small size, and ability to jump to escape a carno pretty consistently (unless you're completely out in the open). You can juke the carno to keep them off your tail, and they're likely to end up only getting tail hits which do next to nothing. While juking, you should prob try to run towards a rock, forest, or even a river. Carnos can't get on rocks so you're safe, forests are useful for breaking line of sight to escape them, and carnos have poor swim speed so you can gain good distance by jumping across rivers.

[thorn mountain]

😐

@green venture do you think teno is fast?

[dusky surge]

i think its a fundamental misunderstanding of cera's role because everyone plays it as a huntkillmurder animal so they assume the role of "running at things until they die" is theirs

[maiden temple]

Yeah cera is a complete mess and has been for a very long time

Its intended role and passives it receives with it are too strong with current speed and damage on the move

[steep gazelle]

He showed his status in the video, he was only 769kg xd

[thorn mountain]

💀

[keen plover]

Doesn't change much tbh. There's nothing OK about what that Carno did

Even if they were at max size, he would have been knocked

[maiden temple]

The charge headbutt is bugged isn't it, I saw people spam it when stationary

[steep gazelle]

Yes, the charge is a bit OP now. But considering it became a manual attack, there must be something in return

[steep gazelle]

It's not bugged

[maiden temple]

I doubt it's intended to spam that attack every half a second when stationary

[hasty coyote]

yeah but that dilo went from 100-0 in a single knockdown, thats genuinely absurd if you think dilo has any chance to survive carno with that type of interaction.

[viscid mica]

@knotty stratus first off carno is bugged atm

Second that carno was not smaller than you same size if not a little bigger on the low end. But ya a wee hefty (always go off height with carnos)

But your right carno needs its charge minigun fixed it’s super op atm

[viscid mica]

Not super fun but something to be aware of rn if you wanna play is that anything carno sized and below is in damaged around carnos

It’ll get patched out eventually

[green venture]

Yep, fast with a loooong stamina

[thorn mountain]

wanna know something

cera and teno are .1 difference in speed

teno also only has 20 seconds more stam than cera

[green venture]

Whos the best in Speed?

[thorn mountain]

teno

[green venture]

For me cera just need +1kmh or 2. I know he is strong etc. But when you dont prime it. Hes so slow. It becomes impossible to catch something

[thorn mountain]

Because cera isnt meant to catch stuff

its not a hunter its a scavenger which is why it has good stam, a super good trot, long sniff range, body buff, charge bite, good swim speed

its just all of those combine into becoming the beast that it is, if they make it 1T or 900KG sure buff its speed but for now hhhelll nah that thing needs nerfs

[green venture]

Yea you’re right

[maiden temple]

The balance between teno and cera is so frail that any change to either will ruin the other

I'm still hoping cera will fill its niche better in the end, when we get allo maybe. Being slower and utilising their body bully passives more

[maiden temple]

When did they nerf teno speed? It used to be 0.3 difference last I remember (at fg)

or did cera get faster, that's more likely tbh

[native urchin]

mmm as far as i know, since i been playing from 2003 its always been 0.1 difference

but as i made a suggestion about it, teno stats are fine aside from the elder weight... which needs to be pushed up to 2 tons, instead of the 1829.

[maiden temple]

2003 would be legacy, if that.. I don't think legacy had teno, did it? D:

[native urchin]

sadly, my fat fingers had the best of me, i meant 2023 XD

2 tons elder teno would be balanced..... nto more than 2 tons or teno kick would knock prime ceras, instead, with being 2 tons (400kg difference) it would allow cera to get only stunned.

now, idk what will happen with allo..... latest leaks show a 2.8 ton weight

[maiden temple]

Nahhh, teno sat at 40.5 km/h for the longest time, I've played evrima since deinos were added

But now I'm questioning it

Cera released with 40.2 didn't it

[keen plover]

yes

Teno was 40.5 up until 6.5 where it was 40.3

[maiden temple]

Sounds about right then

I assume I forgot it lost speed since I didn't really feel it at the time, now with stam being as it is it's not that big of a deal either since carnis have to be careful with theirs while I can zoom away 😄

[native urchin]

oh interesting, i didnt know!!

but yea, as a teno main and fan, i am worried with this elder balance thing, and the addition of bigger carnivores! cause i am assuming allo will be maybe slower than cera, but might have an ambush ability to make it go faster

cera buff to 1.4 tons might mean that allo can only pin half its weight maybe, so cera is not pinnable!

but its all congectures, if teno dont stun allo it will be a rough fight... hopefully its able to run if that is the case

[maiden temple]

Yeah it seems like we're staying within the 'you can either fight it or run from it' spot, so I'm not too worried

[soft mantle]

#balance-feedback message

Since when Are baby rexes faster than carnos?

#balance-feedback message

There Are a Lot of rexes In no ai server for various reasons, like cheaters, grew on different areas of the map and then encountered on the same spot for a short time, played at different times and then happened to all log In at the same time, and also no ai servers Have lots of herbies cuz It's harder for carnis and they Are safer

[hasty coyote]

since the start of the ht, they hit a peak of 60kph at 1 ton

[soft mantle]

#balance-feedback message

Desync, this Has Been a Thing Since Raptor Pin and carno Ram, In their Screen they hit the Target, but the server only regists the ability landing after a delay and that is enough for the faster dinos to run a bit after they were already pinned In that example

[soft mantle]

Those Are 40% rexes, so almost subs, Since sub starts at 50%, that takes hours to reach clearly no baby rexes, also carnos reach 59 kmh while ramming

[steep gazelle]

Adult Carno reach 59km

Not Sub and Juv

[soft mantle]

ik, my point remains

[steep gazelle]

The post talks about Juv/Sub Rex being faster than a Juv/Sub Carno, Not adult carno

[soft mantle]

the time it takes to reach sub rex u already reached adult carno, so my point remains

[steep gazelle]

Ok...

[soft mantle]

btw how u feeling about pachy buffs?

[steep gazelle]

Strange. I feel like Pachy didn't need more weight, but rather an improvement in speed, bleed resistance, and better Headbutt performance.

[hasty coyote]

It feels like they improved the recovery slightly as well, but that may be placebo.

Also elder pachy is incredibly op. Being faster than dilo, larger than dilo, and flipping adult carnos is genuinely insane.

[maiden temple]

Oop time to play pachy

[hasty coyote]

Just be prepared because carno and juvie Rex are somehow even worse. If that carno doesn’t get flipped, it just spam charges you to death in 1-2 knockdowns. And juvie Rex has a stage where it’s 1 ton, 60kph, will pin you, and break your legs on a crush. Not to mention adult pachy gets run down by an elder cera.

The balance on ht is complete wack.

[maiden temple]

Yeah I'm always prepared to be swarmed on pachy

I have my safe rock locations

[steep gazelle]

@iron remnant I remember that Diablo had his drift removed and his speed reduced to 34km, has that changed?

Why, otherwise, I don't understand what all this complaining is for

[iron remnant]

no 36km

[steep gazelle]

Any Cerato with a little skill can kill a Diablo like this

[dreamy gulch]

eh no

[iron remnant]

And it can still drift

[steep gazelle]

Was there a patch that returned the drift and speed to Diablo?

[dreamy gulch]

diablos turning speed is the same if not faster than ceras, so u just cant get behind its back. and attacking from the front is a death sentance

only 2 ceras have a chance

even allo is cooked

u need 2 allos for ONE diablo

[steep gazelle]

I don't see a problem with that

Allo will be faster

[dreamy gulch]

it should be kinda depended on skill with allo vs diablo

[iron remnant]

It's impossible that Diablo can attack 3 times in one second, and even turn around at an amazing speed, with a movement speed of 36.

[steep gazelle]

Are you talking about thrash attack?

[iron remnant]

2. Ceras can't beat you. You have no chance. You can't make more than one mistake. Otherwise, after being knocked down, you will be hit 3 times in one second. The huge damage and bleeding will not give you a second chance.

[steep gazelle]

I haven't played Diablo since he was nerfed in Hordtest, so I'm not sure if this is true or not

But I saw some gameplay and if nothing changed in some Hordtest update, 1-2 Cerato easily kill a Diablo

Do you have any videos?

[iron remnant]

ye

[cosmic pelican]

Diablo in the HT was nerfed specifically to be slower than rex, it also trots way slower. Its literally rex food

[iron remnant]

https://youtu.be/dr7fKpqKRvs

[cosmic pelican]

Only way you can escape a rex is if you see it coming from far away, but even then it might end up trotting you down

[steep gazelle]

1 good diablo vs 3 little bad Ceratos

[cosmic pelican]

Thats a bug
You can spam attacks if you cancel them with N

The thrash attack to be specific, it was fixed in the hordetest

Along with several nerfs to dibble

[iron remnant]

I admit that my carn play is a bit problematic but it's because I didn't take it seriously, but you can see that diabio's attack speed

And its turning speed

[cosmic pelican]

The attack speed is a bug

[cosmic pelican]

Dont you worry, it cant drift at all in HT

[iron remnant]

I even thought it was a hacker attack

Such a fast attack speed

[iron remnant]

ok

[alpine plover]

#balance-feedback message You must have been playing against a hacker because I was fg and got killed by just 2 ceras before speed/drift nerf.

In all fairness the ceras really knew what they were doing.

[iron remnant]

No, I have played it myself and Diablo's attack speed is really as I said, it is not a hack. You can check out the video I posted above.

[alpine plover]

There were some huge mistakes by the ceras in that vid. There was only one time where the dib hit "behind it" that I didn't agree with. The ceras got stuck on the dibble or went in front of it.

[iron remnant]

I just think he's unbalanced. Look at his attack speed, 3 hits per second. If he's hit twice, he's killed instantly. This is not the damage a medium-sized dinosaur should have.

[alpine plover]

Yeah, its attack is fast but had the blue and green cera, for example, not gotten greedy with bites he wouldn't have gotten hit after the red one. In fact, if he stuck to one bite he was playing the situation the best.

In fact... if you watch you can see they never get hit when they do just one bite unless they get in front of the dib.

[iron remnant]

Its ability is too comprehensive, whether it is turning speed or attack power, which will make the combat effectiveness of a Diablo very strong, not to mention that it can form a team of 4.