balance-feedback-discussion

[viscid mica]

If it’s not ambushed atleast

[hushed ibex]

thanks man

[hushed ibex]

i wouldnt mind if they couldnt but i just witnessed that a full stam stego cant really escape a rex, they just get walked down

[viscid mica]

Expected I’m gonna grow one when I’m off next but I’ll admit I’m not looking foward to spending afew hours just to die

[hushed ibex]

literally me as we speak, im glad i can play stego with some risk but like... i know im setting myself up to lose 4 hours to 3 clicks of a mouse

[viscid mica]

Na na gang when I’m off my night shift I’ll hit you up we’ll duo this

[hushed ibex]

dude im night shift too, if our schedules meet fo sho

[viscid mica]

BROTHER

[hushed ibex]

graveyard stegos

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message i don’t know where this philosophy comes from but you’re acting like cera without a corpse is like a fish out of water, its strongest attack doing as much as carnos base lmb is unreasonable

[dusky surge]

additionally hitting like a goddamn thermonuclear weapon on a large body just makes it even further unapproachable

it's a very unfun gameloop for both cera and its opponents

either it basically 100% wins or gets flattened

[rustic torrent]

Idk I disagree with y'all. Its not supposed to be an oppressive combat monster :/ Keep in mind the numbers were also just examples of the concept.
Additionally, you also have to take into account everything else it DOES have. The Isle isn't supposed to be a fighting game where everything has an equal chance against everything else if played right. Bile insta stuns and puts your opponent on a timer bc of food and water, letting you get multiple free hits on them anyway, you can outstam most of the other playables and track people/corpses from long distances, you can eat rotten garbage that none of the other carnivores can touch, you're immune to damage from "smaller" dinos while eating (Omni and Dilo are apparently small in this case), you get a 50% damage reduction around bodies and an increased knockdown threshhold... I really doubt it'd be the be-all, end-all of Cerato's viability if it also didn't throw out immense damage for its size on top of everything else.

I do also think that the damage powercreep in the game is getting a bit too much, things of equal size doing 1/4 their max HP in damage makes fights short and boring

[keen plover]

A cerato with those stats is something I'm going to run up and facetank on with my carno

Anyways most of Cerato's issues comes from mutations. I do think charge bite also needs nerfs but that's really it

[dusky surge]

i agree it's not meant to be an oppressive combat monster, but your suggestion makes it even more of that that but conditionally

a fully feast-or-famine playstyle, where you either have 100 advantages or are left to rot. Most games who have characters that employ this playstyle typically don't see those chararacters have much love because the "conditionally screwed" nature of these stats means you basically just lose in the wrong scenario when you are either playing or against a cerato

[rustic torrent]

It was just an example with numbers lmao

[dusky surge]

change the numbers, the problem remains

[keen plover]

I think charge bite damage could be toned down with a slight slow down effect. As well as increased stam drain when moving with it. Gut gastro and cerato becomes manageable after that.

[crimson crater]

those things aren’t mutually exclusive, it dosen’t have to be oppressive, it can keep its basic ability to defend itself. bile was reworked, if you hit someone during the vomit animation it cancels it, it can’t get multiple hits in, furthermore, there’s more to cerato than to stick to corpses like glue for survival, no playable is hyper-specialized in what they do except for few and they have reliable means to (herrera has trees, deino can roam free in the waters) with cera you’re not gonna have 24/7 accessibility to corpses

[dusky surge]

the slowdown and stam effect are huge problems, and frankly they just need to gut combat muts as a concept

just make the slowdown and stam effect work on startup

[rustic torrent]

I think its an issue that it has to do absurd amounts of damage to defend itself in the first place

Also I just, disagree lmao think it'd defend itself fine even with less damage, considering everything and its insane turn radius (which I forgot to mention bc it has so much stuff going for it)

Carno turns like a bus every other update and so do most of the other dinosaurs aside from Omni, that makes it easy to engage and disengage and wittle them down even if you do 1 damage. Cerato thrives in close quarters combat for this reason. Running circles around the enemy and getting in bites fast is easy for Cerato. These dangers are compounded worse as a duo, or as a group (tho group damage is hard to balance so that's not really the point)

[crimson crater]

sounds decent on paper till you realize that cera can now not defend itself against a teno, carno, 2 dilos or a pack of omnis. its good turn radius isn’t enough to make up for its damage output being effectively cut in half

[obtuse ocean]

It should defiantly defend itself from that, a pack of omnis and dilos should be minimum. But i dont like that its good at hunting tho, think it should be better at defending

[rustic torrent]

I disagree, it'd make it less inclined to throw itself at other dinos just bc they can. (Also the numbers were examples to get the idea across, 125 damage bite could work as well)
It'd still be something worth testing IMO. Personally I don't think Cerato should be tussling 1 on 1 with Tenos, and 2 dilos will cause issues for anything, even if Cera isn't nerfed bc of their ESP mind power venom blast lmao Carno is its own issue, with its weird desync hitbox and how it changes drastically like every other update

[obtuse ocean]

I honestly just tank it as dilo, cus it does not really do that much dmg. If they nerfed the dmg, i would even just facetank it

[crimson crater]

sure it would play less aggressively but it dosen’t control the engagement of most matchups, you’ll die on sight

your only hope of survival would be to sticking to corpses even when you’re not hungry

situational viability

[obtuse ocean]

Thats legacy cera : P

[rustic torrent]

It does control the engagement of most match ups, it puts unique sets of pressures on its opponents on top of its good combat ability which already makes other players wary of engaging with it, thus control. Yeah it can't run but it doesn't really need to unless its grossly outnumbered or in an obviously unfavorable position. Omni needs a big pack to be threatening, Dilo relies on its venom being a busted mechanic to do anything (which is its own issue) Carno is the weird and everchanging one so idk what to do about that matchup until they settle on a design for it. There's a lot of little things from the other playables that also make this a nightmare to balance, but it's just my opinion at the end of the day

It makes me wish there was a way for community servers to adjust stuff, so we can test changes in real time for balance purposes instead of waiting literal years for a playable to be rebalanced and/or fixed, but I don't know if that'll ever be a thing or not

[torn egret]

Personally,
I think most of the stuff in game rn is just "Too fast/mobile"
The damage etc would be fine if there were more incentives to flee from a fight when able.
Raptors and Troo cant even out circle Cera for example, Tenos as well (Along with the spam they got)
If everything was slowed down a bit (Barring current Carno speed,rap dilo and Troo) with AT LEAST the turn speed and radius, I think the combat would be more mechanically dependent and engaging. Then alt attacks would have a bit more 'oomph', and spam attacks would hopefully disappear.

[hasty coyote]

the issue is, with that nerf, the "obviously unfavorable position" is literally anywhere not 5 meters from a corpse. So unless you have a corpse nearby, most things can just run down a cera and kill it. Vomit is hardly a deterrent as they now get guaranteed free food from the dead cera, or they're a herbivore and starvation is a joke.

Imo, the better solution to this problem is to make a like 5% stam cost on bite with charged bite, the speed reduction instant, and the cc resist only activates after full charge. Now cera actually has to charge up their charged bite and is punished for needlessly spamming.

[hasty coyote]

the main issue there is that you would get to the point where the larger dinos literally have 0 chance of hitting a single smaller target because they physically can't turn fast enough. Not to mention a pack of smaller targets (which is generally what you need to punch up anyway). Most of the roster is quick and agile because most of the roster is tiny.

[torn egret]

That's the point of an Alt bite tho, to tackle and deal with smaller targets that are swarming you.
You shouldn't be able to always point your head at someone and negate their entire kit. It also gives smaller stuff a chance to actually get away as well. (mostly talking about stuff over 1800 kg)
Id' also agree with the "tiny" dinos on the roster rn, but there is no point to play them if they are solely dependent on other players playing similar tiers.
The only "tiny" carnivores are PTs and Troodons.
Troo is supposed to be able to take down larger targets than themselves, but are useless once out of stam, while everything else has infinite alt attacks etc. Raptor is a smaller tier sure, but its the same deal. It's meant to be able to take down giants, but rarely have the ability to use pounce to the fullest.
I'm worried that small and tiny tiers will just get uber bullied as things come out that are faster, stronger, and just as mobile or have more defensive actions

[tired rover]

As things stand, given how fragile those tiny tier carnivores are, the larger player only needs to get lucky once, or the attacker make one mistake. Stego's and Trikes currently suffer this issue of slow turn speed but are still able to keep up with a coordinated troodon pack. And thats not to speak of tactics such as water or cliff camping which can outright shutdown your less skilled troo players. The sheer amount of health they have gives them ample opportunity to catch tiny tier critters slipping.

And all thats taking into consideration the victim is alone. Add numbers into the equation...

[viscid mica]

@torn egret while I sympathize with your concern as Rex HT is insanely op

You severely underestimate or simply aren’t fully aware of the capacity of small tiers in numbers let alone solo

Troodons can unironically kill apex’s with ease if you got 5+ of you as your so dam hard to see they can’t really hit you

Omnis do 1k damage per full pounce and even more in bleed damage (I will agree bleed damage needs to be adjusted as it’s not all that great) but with a 4 man you can be a threat to anything

Dilos even just a duo can hunt ANYTHING if they are good enough venom is horrifying

Simply my point is that allowing them to stack damage muts while it would make solo way nicer would make groups so insanely oppressive for large Dino’s that the reverse of what your concern is will happen

Objectively small tiers shouldn’t have a easy time punching up that’s fine and how it should be. Skill and numbers should always be the determining factor when you wanna go after bigger things not mutations which should help but never be the tie breaker

I’ve solod a dibble on troodon and can challenge anything that isn’t a teno and is under 2 tons easily (carnos are too fast to keep up with by a man can try)

Tiny and smalls are fierce in there own why let’s not look for a buff that isn’t needed when a nerf is simply needed on the other side

@vital valley don’t think you and me are playing the same dilo as my guy that thang is strong as hell

It fine right where it is maybe slight reduction in length of effected time even

[vital valley]

On a group sure but alone? Omnis pin and bleed you, carnos run you down, ceras can be ignored but cant win against them, solo troodons you can kill but a group will bleed you to death. And this is the carnivores, all the herbis bigger than a dryo are the same issue as cera, you are faster but stand no chance in a 1v1

If you manage to win against literally anything bigger than a raptor in a 1v1 please teach me your ways because I want to love dilo so hard

[elfin night]

Bruh

What the hell is up with the videos I’m getting now of carnos standing still headbutting a cerato to death

And staggering them

[steep gazelle]

Considering the current state of Cerato, it is balanced xd

[elfin night]

Lmao

Poor pachy tho

[indigo rain]

Carnos charge was changed to not auto hit and now you have to left click to attack with it. This...results in some goofy interactions in HT, as to be expected. Itll probably get smacked and require full speed to do so in future

[elfin night]

Good

[indigo rain]

Also pachy is a straight up menace again and ive been hearing some of my new to the game friends freaking out and running away when they get headshotted. Funny af xD

[viscid mica]

Faster than omnis, can easily avoid carnos by paying attention and hiding if you see them, troodons are not a threat you 1 tap them and are faster, your simply wrong about not being able to 1v1 that’s purely a skill game

[viscid mica]

If you want I’ll hit you up I got afew things I’m planning to do on HT first

But it’s not as hard as you think, most of it relies on awareness and attacking at night lord knows dilos are terrifyingly strong at night

Playing dilo solo is a lot harder but if you even got 1 other person you can pop off with ease

[rain oak]

Don't remove fracture but remove pin instead. Pin is hands off keyboard, 0 enjoyment.

[hasty coyote]

Leg fracture accomplishes the same result, but that’s just because leg fracture is op.

[steep gazelle]

Carno can also no longer drift while using the charge, so I don't think they'll make the charge only usable while running like it was before

[indigo rain]

they can. you just need to use it correctly and not stop running, and just let go of charge into a turn

tinkered with that myself and was able to drift a few times

[steep gazelle]

You can drift stop running by releasing the wasd keys, but doing drfit as before is now only if you are not using charge

Which isn't hard, just stop pressing the rmb, but it's still something

[torn egret]

Troo, omni, and dilo are NOT weak per say,
But they are missing something that has made them somewhat undesirable even in todays game.
The average player just experiences mixpacks, murder hobos, and met-gamers.
That's the issue. Not to mention that its difficult to get the full experience of smaller critters when the larger stuff is just TOO strong.
But that's because there is no reason to "pack up" because of the negative association people have with randoms.
Pack play has to be encouraged, but within the game limits.
Maybe buffs to packs of Omni/Troo, Dilo needing a valid rework to feel fun as well, would be fine.
Buff/Nerf whatever to achieve that result. I just want ideas for them to still be played, as well as the mid and small herbis to engage in a "full" ecosystem.

[viscid mica]

I wouldn’t mind buffs for being in groups

I just don’t think individual changes will have healthy results

On the low end of skill sure but the moment we step into the mid-higher end of player skill and groups it would just be to oppressive

@blissful geode oh ya the charge death repeater is a bug being looked into and should be fixed some time this HT but as it stands is crazy strong

[torn egret]

Some changes have to be individual for the pack to benefit as well.
Like the pounce changes etc.
Skill can only take you so far, even if you are one of the best players ever, there are matchups, situations, and fights you can't win.
Dark Souls, Elden Ring,
Disparity (lol) in skill and playstyle are what really shows with mechanical usage. The meta rn is mostly spam attacks, and if there were ways for individuals to "skill Check" those players is needed.
Most players are mid to low tier, and even if something has alot of potential, there is no way for ALL players to reach those heights

[viscid mica]

Indeed but even than you must account for the few high skill players and the max potential

[torn egret]

You cannot punish the many for the skills of a few.

That's a personal take tho, not saying you believe that

[hasty coyote]

That’s how you get current cera

[viscid mica]

But the few can be so incredibly oppressive

[viscid mica]

Exactly this

Cera kit if you look on a base set low to mid ain’t all that crazy it’s strong sure but not wild

But the moment you through in some highly skilled or coordinated players? Yikes

[hasty coyote]

Most players are bad at the game. If your balance dinos off that, then skill expressive dinos will be op in the right hands.

[viscid mica]

Indeed

Cera is just a more common example as its base skill start and end are pretty close

Compared to things like teno, carno or omni where the difference is night and day

[torn egret]

Sure, but that's because the cera always has been low skill, but mid players can take it higher than I think it should.
Cera players literally needed absurd buffs to compete in the roster at the time.
I hope that as more animals come in, things get reworked etc.

BUT, Cera has always been the "crutch" for many players because of versatility.
Versatility imo are best shown with Troodon and Raptor, where they can do alot, but Cera can do alot well.
Is it a scavenger? then why is it so fast for it's tankiness etc.
It has to be that way tho until allo and other mid tiers get added

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[torn egret]

Troo is capped by Stamina tied to damage,
same w omni and herrera.
Cera is not, And infinite alt attacks are crutches as well

Make Stamina and bleed matter and that should be enough across all tiers of players and dinos

Slow things down, make effects last longer, heal slower.
Things players HATE lol

[viscid mica]

Cera objectively needs a nerf as well

Something being overly strong shouldn’t be the reason to buff other things instead of nerfing the thing that is too strong for what it is

[torn egret]

But Cera would not be an issue if,
ALL players could not alt attack and special attack when they have no stamina,
All bleed times are lengthened (I'm ok with lower bleed values if they can stack better/longer)
Stamina regen and attack cost across the board need a nerf imo

It also fixes other dino issues and player spam

Those DO directly affect small pack hunters

[hasty coyote]

I think it’s versatility and ease of use are great, makes it a simple carnivore that can still put up a solid fight. Perfect for newer players learning carnivores.

The issue is that it lacks ANY reasonable downsides. Which makes it op the moment anyone with any skill actually uses it. But, most players, who can’t use it effectively, still are roughly equal with most others.

And that’s with a dino with a skill floor 2 inches below its ceiling, do something like this with Omni and it will be the most op dino in the game.

[torn egret]

100%.
But the stamina system is also too friendly imo.
That would cap alot of bad cera and carno players, while giving "better" players a chance against them. It also would curb murder herbs lol

[viscid mica]

No than you’ll just have legacy combat and it be a matter of who’s turn speed is tighter

Alt attacks are extremely necessary

[torn egret]

Not really, you still have alt attacks, etc.
Legacy combat is fundamentally 2d compared to now

[torn egret]

But not with 0 stamina

Thats crazy.

[viscid mica]

If your exhausted are you incapable of turning

[torn egret]

Good!
It means you managed stamina poorly or the opponent did better!

[viscid mica]

I get your point but I disagree as all that serves to do is extend the time of fights but won’t change the results

[torn egret]

Once again, just my hot take that the games survival is no longer the focus, and PvP is what people want.
And I think alot of players would lose fights more often if they were adequately punished.
Lawnmower teno is NOT ok lol

That argumment you make "only" effects the big stuff vs small stuff.
Mechanics like shove, pin, grapple, crush.

[viscid mica]

Fair

[torn egret]

If you can't win at the start, you have to make up for it in the long run and thats playable determined more than player

Those to me are the most fun engagement tho

So biased and based lol

[viscid mica]

I don’t think a solo should have it easy in any way shape or form

Atleast a solo small

That’s where the larger things should have the advantage

If they’re ain’t many there ain’t enough type shiii

[torn egret]

Solo rex? maybe.
Allo? maybe.

Solo Troo COULD, if there were fun playables that it could reasonably hunt.
That's just how it is tho, people want the big stuff easy to grow and play,
but then never play small things because there is no reward

[viscid mica]

I mean there is a lot of stuff yet to come

Stuff that troo will have a much easier time

[torn egret]

I've solo trood against Maia stegos cera etc.
But I'm also a lunatic.
But if the small stuff is not popular, it won't matter what the roster has.
The small stuff HAS to be more fun in some way.
If not PvP, Pve or interactions with other species etc

[viscid mica]

I will also say as a religious troo player I find troo one of the most rewarding there something primal about dark soulsing a dibble as a solo troo

[torn egret]

100%
Once I learnt the Parry, it really became Dino souls

[viscid mica]

Plus once dryos get tunneling the dryo community will be out in force

There are tons of dryo enjoyers who will be active once tunneling exists

[vale brook]

i wouldnt mind if they brought back (or if its still in, make it more noticable) how alt biting when out of stamina reduces its damage by a bit

[viscid mica]

Oh now that I’m all for

Like how a stego can get duo pinned when nearly out of stam by omnis

[vale brook]

like if you get caught in the open with low/no stam, sorry you deserve a pretty one sided fight depending on what you fight

and on the opposite end, if you're fighting something and manage to play well, bait attacks, etc, and drain its stamina, good. you also now deserve a pretty one sided fight now for the most part

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[hasty coyote]

Troodon has insane stamina efficiency, and Herrera isn’t generally supposed to hit multiple pounces generally. Omni I agree with, but Omni’s main issue is that bucking and scraping are horribly balanced.

Troodon’s main issue is that the alt attacks basically have 0 difference while out of stamina. Since they still get 1-shot even by half damage. They prob need to implement the slow down on alts while out of stamina.

[hasty coyote]

It’s more of cera having 0 stam costs rather than the stam system. Like stego, who actually has high cost attacks, is practically crippled by the stam system after 4 attacks. Unless we also consider tactile, which is also an op mutation.

[torn egret]

Troo is ok where it's at, Elder Troo is enough of a buff for it to be valid.
Troo is one of the "best balanced" ironically
Glass cannon. But it needs pounce. no point to alt attack w/o chaining into a pounce imo.
I still want a harsher stammina system personally

[rigid tulip]

Do you not find that the speed changes once getting old are especially miserable for small tiers? I feel like the elder system punishes me extra hard for playing something small. The weight gaps get even bigger and I cant even rely on my superior maneuverability anymore and I become frail way faster than everyone else

[vale brook]

i think theyre just especially prone to the sped up elder system right now

once its lengthend it'll (probably) be fine for the most part

[rigid tulip]

Well the problem is that this game is becoming a weight based win machine

Essentially bigger things stunlock smaller things across the board right

So my small mid tier if it cannot outrun things larger than it has 0 counterplay

Speed being touched is a huge problem

It means death on sight if you get unlucky and find the wrong creature

Which obviously has existed before in the form of carno/dilo however carno got nerfed into the ground (even though its broken again, it still is acknowledged as problematic) and dilo has to actually bite, it has no stunlock

So its easier to fight back against if you’re smaller such as raptor v dilo 1v1 which is extremely winnable for raptor

However essentially what the elder system is doing is creating like 4+ prime carnos on the roster. Things that are 1. Faster than you 2. Stun/one shot you. And we all remember how problematic prime carnos were however now half the roster is prime carno at this point especially juvi/sub rex

I think all stuns/pins need to be nerfed very hard across the board and all weight based systems should be more liberal and speed should not be touched in any way shape or form by neither mutation nor elder system

But thats a hot take

Im just concerned that the game is going to become “if im bigger I win” and furthermore that skill expression and counterplay in combat will slowly go out of the window due to cc creep and size based combat

[obtuse ocean]

Exactly how it should be? You wanne do even more mistakes in fights and still be able to get away? You can more or less win every fight if you dont do mistakes. Sounds like you want, we are more so we win fights. Would make the game incredible boring fast, you should definitely get hard punished for facetanking something thats bigger etc.

[wicked briar]

No safe drinking spots. If you want little puddles there should be a limit on how much water is in said puddle, have it be able to dry up and only replenish when it rains.

Think this will promote more gameplay around major bodies of water

[blissful geode]

As a result I'm getting a lot of insults from the said Carno players I keep escaping and running away from, what am I supposed to do against a good Carno with spam charge AND prime elder lol

[rigid tulip]

No im saying that the strength of larger dinos in their higher damage and hp is already good enough. They dont need to pin or stun one shot combo smaller dinos

[viscid mica]

Nothing atm the joys of bugs that make attacks go brrrrrr

@shadow shuttle you could always like…. Not play the testing branch if that’s such a big issue?

[obtuse ocean]

Ok, thats a good point. But smaller, you mean like omni? Smaller for a an allo or rex can be many. I need something that can take a omni down if i ambushes it even as allo. Since i highly doubt allo gonna kill a omni in one normal bite

[shadow shuttle]

Nah, i do it and rec it, everyone need to know how bad is this game atm

[viscid mica]

How bad the “horde test” is at the moment

Base evirma is fine if your having issues on base it’s your set up or wifi

[shadow shuttle]

Just because it's the “hordetest” version doesn't give the developer the right to release such crap.

[viscid mica]

It’s a testing branch genius

[shadow shuttle]

testing about what ? bug ?

[viscid mica]

Where they test stuff

[shadow shuttle]

bug testing ?.

[viscid mica]

Yes….

[shadow shuttle]

cheater testing ?

[dusky surge]

y-yes?

the testing branch is to test for bugs

im shocked you didnt know this

[viscid mica]

[shadow shuttle]

There are lots of bugs and problems that didn't originate with this version and still haven't been resolved. The test horde is just an excuse to release unfinished and completely disgusting updates, filled with cheaters and servers that are completely broken.

and the developers don't care about that

[viscid mica]

Bros playing a beta game on the testing branch of the beta and pressed that bugs exist that’s crazy

Cheaters are a gaming inevitability you can’t name a game without cheaters

[shadow shuttle]

Except that there are bugs that don't date back to this version, as I said earlier, not to mention the completely broken game balance, where you starve to death your whole life, and that's not a bug or whatever, it's just that the developers deliberately balance the game like crap so that people just want entomb on it in real life.

The purpose of a hordetest version is for players to play the game to test for bugs, but even that is impossible since you can't even join the servers on which you're supposed to test for bugs. 🤡

We've been waiting three years for them to fix the bug where AI don't spawn or clip through the ground. This isn't something that started with this version. You need to stop defending the game all the time, even when it's indefensible. I understand that the game can be buggy, but they should stabilize the game and fix the old bugs before releasing content updates that will be unplayable and boring as hell anyway.

[viscid mica]

So like… why you still playing?

If it’s so trash why not play something else

[shadow shuttle]

Cause i buy the game ????

[viscid mica]

[shadow shuttle]

for something ?

[viscid mica]

So basically

You just wanna complain about something

[shadow shuttle]

Basically i want to aware the people

and maybe

MAYBE

[viscid mica]

Brothers acting like people don’t know bugs exist

Posting a screenshot of you getting disconnected from que and saying delete the game isn’t not awareness

[shadow shuttle]

🤡

[dusky surge]

all this over being kicked out of a queue

[viscid mica]

It’s salt

[dusky surge]

lmao

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/gxng-pxin-sxlt-salt-gif-22384449

[shadow shuttle]

dude keep sucking the game and just do your stuff

i do mine

[vale brook]

part of the hordetest is also finding/overloading servers

this is part of that

"disconnected from queue"

"test for bugs"

WHAT do you think you experienced

[shadow shuttle]

yeah and that for why this bug exist since 4 year ? 🤡

[vale brook]

the disconnection from queue bug comes and goes when the servers are being overloaded lol

last appearance was months ago before recent HT iirc lol

[shadow shuttle]

like dev cant buy some real server to host their game

[vale brook]

they use the same servers fortnite uses

[viscid mica]

Bro I get what I expect you expect triple A quality control from a team that ain’t even a 8th of the size of a actual triple A company

[shadow shuttle]

yeaaaah and that for why after fortnite maj , you get perma disconnected from the game

[viscid mica]

Ah yes you and your many years of dev experience to explain all that is wrong

[vale brook]

this reads as sarcasm but like, the fact they use EOS is objective

[shadow shuttle]

Yeah and same when using good server, he cant make it joinable

that worst than i think

[viscid mica]

It’s gotta be rage bait at this point

[shadow shuttle]

oh yeah you need to be a dev to point what is wrong about the game 🤡

[vale brook]

i mean you can still join the servers

the non-test branch of the game is right there for you to still play

or you can wait a week until server issues die down, like they do with every HT

[viscid mica]

Scroll up this was already said

[vale brook]

oh

he wants to play the test servers without going through the process of it

right

[shadow shuttle]

yeah the famous bug resolve after one week, is not like there some bugs in here that from 3 year ago and still here

[vale brook]

ok

name 3

https://tenor.com/view/checking-watch-chris-brander-ryan-reynolds-just-friends-would-you-look-at-the-time-gif-12693907534173761892

[viscid mica]

Man no Pepe coffee sip gif when I need it

[viscid mica]

Bouta hit you with a paragraph about everything except the bugs

[shadow shuttle]

AI spawn bug, Server disconnection for no reason, the bug, or if you put your camera at the water's edge, you can see the whole lake or river clearly (completely broken for adult deinos).

game crash

for reason at all

when you read the msg its just "yeah texture folder not found" so the game crash

[vale brook]

AI spawn bug was fixed in this HT and hasnt been a problem for "3+ years"

server disconnection for no reason? brother, that could quite literally be for any reason. server crash, anti cheat flagging you, etc.

water edge was fixed this HT

[shadow shuttle]

🤡

[dusky surge]

clown emote cuz no actual argument lol

[vale brook]

would you like to try again

maybe you'll get 1 out of 3 this time

[shadow shuttle]

i litteraly experience this 3 bug the last night

and you say that

[viscid mica]

Na it’s like 80% chance of being rage bait at this point unless bro is the most unhappy gamer in existence

[shadow shuttle]

next time i just record it

so you can front your wrong point

[vale brook]

the servers were restarting several times last night via devs, so no, those were not crashes

you starving to death does not mean AI is screwed

water edge is LITERALLY fixed, i do not know what else to tell you

lakes have a new potential bug but its also likely lake underwater shaders are not in yet

[shadow shuttle]

"you starving to death does not mean AI is screwed" every normal human who play this game say it

[vale brook]

you still have to actually to try and find the ai

and you know, be good at it

[viscid mica]

The Ai system works as intended

Now the intent behind Ai spawning I will debate but it’s no bug

[shadow shuttle]

wtf are you saying

[vale brook]

the fact there are megapacks of rexes should tell you more than plainly enough that there is many AI around the map

[vale brook]

stop expecting to be hand fed by the ai

go actually find it

[shadow shuttle]

read the channel just under

"On hordetest, AI spawn seems to be very abundant at server restart, a huge amount of boars and deers everywhere. But after a while, it’s almost like they just stopped spawning, and there would be no AI anywhere on the map for hours"

[viscid mica]

Na you see that’s just false, it’s just that the spawning design is flawed

[shadow shuttle]

"The experience is much more enjoyable when there’s plenty of AI. You get to experience the environment in a calmer way. Right now it’s a stress and frustration simulator where you spawn in, run around for a couple of hours, and then die of starvation. So more AI is definitely a winner"

[viscid mica]

Hold up I’ll go get a message link I made a whole thing about this

[vale brook]

... you do realize this post is saying theres more AI and thanking the devs for it, correct?

[viscid mica]

#balance-feedback message

Ai system is functioning as intended

It is just biased against solos and fresh spawns heavily

[shadow shuttle]

to much delusional people in here

keep suck the game as you want

you cannot be reasoned with

[viscid mica]

Why do you expect triple A production quality from a what 10 man team?

[shadow shuttle]

dude there is some game developped by 1 or 2 people that 10 time better than this

[vale brook]

closer to 20ish

[shadow shuttle]

lethal compagny for instance

1 guy in this room

[viscid mica]

And is it of the same style and quality?

[shadow shuttle]

no, is better quality

for sure

[viscid mica]

No way your comparing a game with the simplest game function in existence to the isle evirma

[shadow shuttle]

dude you dont even know about what you saying

[viscid mica]

You mean YOU don’t understand what I’m saying

[vale brook]

this is the absolute funniest thing you've said and shows you genuinely have no idea what you're talking about

i love it here

[shadow shuttle]

yeaaah that it

np keep suck the game, that make it better

[dusky surge]

WAIT NO WAY YOU'RE COMPARING THIS TO LETHAL COMPANY LMAO

[shadow shuttle]

that is a reason why evrima is shame on every media

[viscid mica]

Why even play the isle if it makes you this mad go play something else I don’t get it why fume over this so much

[dusky surge]

THAT'S SO FUNNY

[vale brook]

comparing a game like the isle which is 100x more graphically and mechanically complex to lethal company of all things is the funniest thing ive ever seen

[viscid mica]

That’s what I’m saying

[dusky surge]

no shade to lethal company, it just has a different scope and vision, which is 100% fine, but you're right

[viscid mica]

^^

[shadow shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/i-show-speed-speed-shake-now-suck-that-sucking-gif-24039341

i see you guy all like this atm

[viscid mica]

Do you need directions to the path of titans discord or something lmao?

[vale brook]

hi guys why does rollercoaster tycoon 1 run better than GTA 6 for me :/

[dusky surge]

np keep flame the game, that make it better

[shadow shuttle]

yeah of course

that why people doing it

[dusky surge]

no lol

flaming is not criticism, it's just flaming

[shadow shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/blinking-blink-you-idiot-wtf-you-stupid-gif-16162423

[dusky surge]

saying "uninstall" on a screenshot of you getting kicked from a queue is a nothing statement lol

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[shadow shuttle]

that not a statement that a proof

[viscid mica]

Sir could I possibly try and get you to think of it with a broader perspective.

Small team, extremely mechanically, graphically intense game, mass multiplayer, covers a niche of games rarely ever touched before its first version.

They making a run at producing by all standards a triple A game with a crew no where near the size in a niche that never leaves anyone happy for balancing as 3 different play styles collide very directly in it. It’s never gonna be perfect so don’t treat it like it will expect little and you’ll be extraordinarily pleased expect much and you’ll be wildly disappointed

You expect too much

[shadow shuttle]

I don't want it to be perfect, I just want it to be playable.

that the point

[dusky surge]

it is perfectly playable

[viscid mica]

And it is

[shadow shuttle]

I've never seen anyone so delusional in my entire life.

[viscid mica]

[dusky surge]

You can play it

It is playable\

[shadow shuttle]

right genius

im done with you

[viscid mica]

The irony of this statement

[minor elbow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1142704527577985054/1378805112545476688/rage_bait_2.gif

[dusky surge]

cool

[viscid mica]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1190479571762548807/1344147426247704656/QUIT_HAVING_FUN.gif

[rigid tulip]

I will say though that there should be a higher focus on playability though. Things are kind of added without much thought to how it will effect player experiences, it sort of is a process we all accept. I understand that for any early access game but not one that has had a loyal community for 10 years. Things like at least updating the steam page yk

The replay system was a big step

Love that

[faint quail]

yall i know sojo is being emotional, but be fr.

the games night vision has been buggy for ages. you look up or down and suddenly you cant see.

Water glitch. nuff said.

trying to turn while running causes insane stuttering that kills all your momentum, its jittery and uncomfortable to play.

the games not perfect and it is in beta (for like 10 years now), yes, but the devs could absolutely do better to fix bugs before adding new ones

[slim dragon]

When they focus on new content people complain about there being too many bugs

When they focus on fixing bugs people complain about the lack of content

[faint quail]

yes people complain no matter what, my point is that the devs could do better at fixing already buggy content before adding more content

id like the core mechanics of the game to function properly before receiving more dinos, even tho my favorites have yet to be released.

[slim dragon]

Well then you'll be happy to know core mechanics are the main focus rn

They're trying to get all of these in so they can polish them properly afterwards
You can't fix bugs for something that hasn't been added yet

[faint quail]

i think youre missing the point, but thats great.

[slim dragon]

I know you're saying "they could do better" but that means nothing when you don't know how things are happening in the backend

[faint quail]

i say they could do better because i still see issues that have been persistent for years now.

i dont want more content that needs fixing before they fix the already persisting issues.

idc about backend when ive seen them actively not fix bugs that have been in the game. if thats what theyre doing now, great, if not, do better.

like, update after update and no word of any fixes in the works.

[slim dragon]

There are fixes with every update

They literally redid the water shaders to solve the water bug you were talking about

[faint quail]

and as i said, thats great. i love it. super pleased.

now what about the night vision ? they havent seen to be able to get that down. turning while running ? does that still stop your momentum on certain dinos ?

not only that, but the dinos we do have still need working on. day after day i see people talk about pt being unplayable, pachy is too weak, cera is too strong.

the game, imo, is getting worse with the new content they do add. it feels like the genre of the game has changed into a get railed simulator, rather than the hardcore dino survival fighter it always has been. irritation builds and we get a couple back scratches from the devs as our entire bodies have poison ivy.

[slim dragon]

The turning while running thing was only introduced last update

The rest isn't bugs

[faint quail]

ive noticed it for far longer, and the rest is more point to not add more content before your finished with what you already have. not to mention night vision, which makes up about half the time you play.

why grab seconds when you havent finished your firsts.

[slim dragon]

That's not how game development works
You can't just fix every bug before adding new content, as said new content is likely to break things again

That's just tripling the amount of time needed for every update, with no guarantee that the bugs you fixed won't actually come back

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
Gotta embrace the darkness, if you're in the jungle it's just a black screen

[stark knoll]

@restive token You get it at the same time as in the live branch

The % label is just different

It's still subadult

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
I really really hope mutations get some sort of nerf to begin with and then you can build them up to have more % each as you entomb to make it both worth keeping your dino alive and making breeding incredibly valuable.
It would keep pvp encounters a bit more random too, since you'll never really know what kind of stats you're fighting precisely

[hasty coyote]

better solution: we just remove combat mutations

[restive token]

yeah but it take long to get the 50% growth. (depends on diet) so its just a feedback from me or a request to get it a bit earlyer. Not when we spwan but like between 35-45% growth. Its just hard to kill other ppls

[maiden temple]

I'm always for this, I dislike any muts that alter base stats

[hasty coyote]

the fact that a prime cera can outrun dryos after a few entombments is insane

[maiden temple]

I forgot dryo exists

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/raptor-sad-dinosaur-trex-dino-gif-13324103

[maiden temple]

I felt like movement speed balance was very frail to begin with, now it's a huge mess and everyone are zooming

[hasty coyote]

the 5% speed mutations were insane to begin with and already caused major problems between matchups

now those speed mutations can be buffed even larger

and elders ALSO just get massive speed boosts

or they get their kneecaps shattered if they arent prime

[maiden temple]

Yeah the frail elders are hilarious, it's just food

[hasty coyote]

so the combat is now just "are you prime elder and is your prime elder faster than their prime elder? If either is no, you get run down and die"

[maiden temple]

I like the whole idea as it goes along with realism but it's a very very short window playtime wise. It will probably change

[faint quail]

hot take, some parts of realism should be left out.

[maiden temple]

Aging is fine for this game specifically, this way getting rid/limiting amounts of modern AI can be possible. Players providing food to others because their playable got old and died is great

Closes the circle of life

[hasty coyote]

that is the most luke warm take I have seen

[faint quail]

seems to make a lot of people upset

[maiden temple]

People treat it like it's Jurassic Park Warpath sometimes

[hasty coyote]

because people want it only when it benefits their playable, and generally it aint even realism

[faint quail]

and i disagree, i think i should be able to live for as long as i can based on my skill and not because my dino got old and useless

thats boring

[maiden temple]

I've had stegos for weeks and it would be WAY more rewarding to be able to entomb and be stronger the next time tbh

Even my crazy teno lived far too long with nothing to do really, got groups of carni challenge me twice a day and that was it xD

[indigo rain]

technically if the game was going hard realism herbivore FOV would be 360 but blur after a fairly good distance. carnivores would have the current FOV and be able to see as they currently do.

Entirely playable, but thats not how the game was designed.

[hasty coyote]

I'd personally prefer if frail elders got weak, but no where near as weak as they are now. They should be weak enough that they are at a disadvantage, but not just flat out fodder. That way you can survive as a frail elder, if you so choose, but the more enticing option is to interact with the gameplay loop of entombment.

Plus it should take a lot longer to actually reach frail elder.

[maiden temple]

I think the basic adult stage should be longer based on how long you've been growing for but it should eventually age

[faint quail]

thats reasonable. kinda enjoyable, although i feel its going to turn into "who can spend more time growing and entombing to be stronger than someone who just spawned in" which isnt rewarding or fun to people who dont have all day to entomb.

[hasty coyote]

thats an issue with current prime elders and combat mutations being genuinely busted.

[indigo rain]

there is, eventually, a "cap" to entombing. Mutations are lost on the 5th gen, and you have to grow that mutation back up all over again, so for one life you gain 10% movement speed, etc. then its back down to 5%

That doesn't remove the fact that the mutations getting that high to begin with is a massive balance issue. If this is a survival game, you need to be able to make the correct choice to survive. If that choice is taken away, so does the game's intended enjoyment.

plus, with this sort of mechanic being added, balancing new dinosaurs becomes IMMENSLY difficult

because it muddies everything

[faint quail]

i understand how the prime and frail elders are supposed to foster player movement, but i really only see it as a punishment to people who dont play exactly the way dondi wants you to play. afk bush growing isnt fun, but i shouldnt be punished for not moving around a ton. rewards, absolutely. but i disagree that there is only 1 "right" way to play the game, and if you dont, the hours you spent to get strong just spiral down the drain.

[indigo rain]

mind, the mutations stacking is VERY FUN. I love it. But hooo is it unbalanced rn

[indigo rain]

Dondi confirmed he needs people to live and die fast, so i heavilly suspect dinosaur lifespans will be increased at some point

[hasty coyote]

difficult? its impossible atm. We have prime pachies that are flipping adult carnos and ceras and running faster than omnis, yet still just insta dying the moment a 1 ton juvie rex shows up running ~12kph faster. I genuinely don't think the current elder and entombment system can be balanced other than only playing the game while you're prime elder and on a large dino.

[faint quail]

if mutations are going to buff base stats, they need to nerf another. it should be a trade off, like higher weight = slower speed. in turn, higher speed = lower weight or damage or something. that could add the balance needed to keep it fair

[indigo rain]

yeahhhh.... a lot of species just got invalidated rn

[faint quail]

needs ?

[maiden temple]

I was also hoping we'd get some birth mutations too, ones you can only get when nested and extremely rarely. Colours like albino and melanistic, then disadvantages like blindness %, deafness % or more muscle to make you lose running stamina slower etc etc
I think I'm going crazy now

[stark knoll]

Yea, to test the system and find bugs

[faint quail]

oh for the ht

[indigo rain]

please do not make me try to look up the binary that is his username for the quote- but yes

for the HT

[maiden temple]

It's definitely a work in progress with elders, muts and new balancing. This is gonna take ages

[indigo rain]

right now, based on the announcements, the devs are focusing more on fixing the server stability

once thats fixed i expect we will see more dino changes

its gonna be messy af

i am VERY excited for all of this tho just ahhh mercy

[maiden temple]

Same

[indigo rain]

but like, if the muts stay the way they are rn, an allo could just stack up bleed resist and damage resist and then what is a theri going to do? tickle it? and then the allo mauls it with super charged damage muts?

[hasty coyote]

I think once the elder system is actually out of testing they will increase the time between adult and frail, so hopefully that should give a lot more time for people to complete the prime requirements before hand.

[faint quail]

honestly though, i dont care if im at full capability for 30 minutes or 2 hours, its annoying to me knowing that if i dont do the game "right" itll all be stripped from me.

a big part of my joy for this game is seeing how long i can keep something alive, and the new elder system just kinda yoinks that away

[maiden temple]

I wonder if it will be something private servers can opt out of

[hasty coyote]

even that wouldnt work, because the only way to balance it out would be to make you fodder to just as many species as you made fodder. Which would not be fun for anyone and just turns the survival game into rock paper scissors, but even if you don't participate you still get hit in the head with a rock randomly.

The best solution would be to rework or remove all the combat mutations to not directly impact combat, that way most the mutations are just there to help make survival easier and open up different playstyles. Rather than be used to give MAJOR advantages in certain fights.

[faint quail]

this. make it so that you cant opt out of the elder system. normalize multiple playstyles being okay. a really big portion of this game is people who like the hardcore dino fighter, where others play it as a dino sim, and some people play it like theyre and actual dinosaur. all of these people are valid and should be thought about. i enjoy doing all of them at times, and would be really disappointed if i couldnt do one.

[hasty coyote]

that is valid, but the idea is for the gameplay loop to include dying and restarting. Best solution I can think of is to increase the time to elder (which prob will already be the case) make frail elders not complete fodder, and prob for you to just grind to prime each life since you will still retain a chunk of the stats as you become frail.

[faint quail]

i agree that mutations shouldnt affect base stats. dinos are made with matchups in mind and are heavily reliant upon those stats. i love the mutations that arent combat related, like getting water from rain. but with other dinos having them, it makes it moot to get anything else.

[hasty coyote]

and I think those players who want a different game style should be able to enjoy them on unofficial servers. Since thats not the type of game the official game is trying to create.

[indigo rain]

You either have to have elders forced, or none at all. The reason it has to be forced is because if players can just opt out after 4 generations, youll end up with megapacks and mixpacks with super mutation dinos that are even harder to kill than before.

[maiden temple]

It could work, you can opt in once and then that dino will always take part in elder system or opt out and it never does. Entombing the dino counts as the same dino I mean.
This gives a choice of either getting stronger but eventually being old and weaker OR being a forever adult without any of the benefits elder system offers.

[indigo rain]

This at least scatters and forces mixpacks to work with limited timeframe to affect servers

[faint quail]

agreed, officials are chaos and ive only ever played them if i want chaos. not that the chaos is bad, but theres a lot of crazyness on officials. i go to unofficial for ruled servers that are more in line with the realism-lite playstyle i enjoy most of the time.

[faint quail]

yeah as Lala said, you cant participate and then opt out. its a go in or out type of thing, and it would likely be server wide to keep it the most fair

or they would have to make mutations less broken

[indigo rain]

yeah. I can see the devs making that a setting server owners can pick

ik they plan to make AI a list of choices for them

servers can already tweak mutation strength as well

[faint quail]

yeah, i like that theyve allowed unoffical server owners to tweak the settings how they see fit. kind of like a difficulty slider for the game

[indigo rain]

very much so and it makes for so much more variety in the game itself for more replayability.

[maiden temple]

Yeah some servers feel like playing a different game at times lol

Good for the game either way

[faint quail]

keeps a wider audience interested

more money for developement if anything

[rigid tulip]

Combat is now weight and speed based entirely

“Are you lighter and slower?” You lose (there are now 10x more instances of this in the game)

It used to be that only carno and dilo would break that rule and be faster than smaller things

Now its essentially a roster wide issue

We have like 4 prime spiro carnos on our hands right now

Across the roster

Except even better this time everyone has stuns and pins

[hasty coyote]

Yeah they really need to rebalance a lot of the elders

[spiral kindle]

@quick cargo Carno's spam stationary charge does 125 dmg , it only does 175 if it cc's / has been charged for 2.5 seconds

They should slow the cooldown to around the same speed as carno's bite

[quick cargo]

Are you sure? It put me on compete red as juvi Rex at like 176 kg

[spiral kindle]

was it a headshot

[quick cargo]

No, he hit the tail base

[quick cargo]

And a headshot would’ve killed me even if it was 125

[spiral kindle]

Did it cc u

[quick cargo]

No, he was trotting or standing still

[spiral kindle]

How big was it

and did u have the dmg reduction mutation

[quick cargo]

Pretty big

[quick cargo]

No

[spiral kindle]

Was it in it's prime

[quick cargo]

He might’ve been elder but he looked pretty ordinary

Didn’t look like elder morph

[spiral kindle]

Okay well it must of headshot you

Headshot does 187dmg

so it must of been like slightly below 75%

U say it was tail base but on that carno's pov it might of been a headshot

OR it was a prime carno body shot

[spiral kindle]

@indigo rain Honestly skill issue

Carno v teno rn in live build is NOT 60/40 it's more like 95/5 lmao

If you're talking good vs good

[indigo rain]

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/l2r83Xtftfn0ZM5Nf?invite=cr-MSxPNjEsMjM4Njc2Njkx&v=258

I'm not sure what you mean by "skill issue"

If the carno is dogwater, yeah. I've seen what a competent one can do.

[spiral kindle]

that teno messed up so badly at the start

could of tail slammed it couple times

Also this is a 2v1 but yeah

Those carnos need to use bite more

way too predictable

I never said carno was dogwater he's my main playable

[spiral kindle]

@native urchin that 5 biteforce may not seem much but it's a 15% dmg boost

Wich means you're Alt attack , Kick and tail slam deal 15% more dmg

And you're faster and u gain 229kg

And with the stabilisation during kick / tail slam animation u weigh like 3658

or 3200 i kinda forgot the multiplier

Prime teno is a monster still capable of destroying carno's and cera's

Yeah it doesn't benefit as much as cera or carno but it's still insane

[native urchin]

Cera dmg output is still way more! The trashold for knocking with kick is 400kg, so at least make teno 2tons…. So it doesn’t knock prime c’era…. But it needs more hp! C’era prime charge bites melts! And multiple carno can become a problem, considering a headshot from a prime carno knocks a prime teno

[analog zodiac]

why can u not knock trikes as trike anymore? (on hordetest)

[obtuse ocean]

@coarse blaze Why should you have counter to the venom? They could do it the boring way, and make dilo do heavy bleed or made the venom just make sure you took dmg over time. What the dilo has now is much more cooler then just "here is so good bleed". Its venom.

[coarse blaze]

Maybe it's poor wording on my part.

My issue isn't the venom itself, it's the fact that the player had to interact with me once to kill me, and it wasn't even an adult.

There wasn't anything I could do once bit that wasn't "cheese" onto a rock, killing the Dilo doesn't and in my opinion, shouldn't stop the venom but for the venom to last as long as it does, I do expact the Dilo to have to engage within the fight a little more rather than just spam a button from a distance.

[vale brook]

venom could be made far more interesting while still maintaining its current identity and its a really easy fix actually

[coarse blaze]

If the Dilo had to engage with me more, I'd be fine with it lasting but one bite?

[vale brook]

have default charge recharge be 3-5 minutes, and have a bite = 1 recharge

[obtuse ocean]

But what did you play ? Like omni can avoid it by jump so can teno, and easy defend itself. Dibble cera maia can also defend itself

[coarse blaze]

As stated in the feedback, I was an adult Teno.

Biting the clones to prevent them from biting me back always ended with me being bit anyways and jumping onto terrain is the said "cheesing" because it only works because the clones can't currently get to you.

Which they have attempted to change, making clones spawn on top of the player instead; escaping onto a rock isn't seemingly intentional counterplay.

[coarse blaze]

I think recharging via reengaging is a good idea

[vale brook]

the intentional counterplay was originally biting and fighting the clones

that should definitely come back alongside recharges for reengaging

[obtuse ocean]

Im fine with it aslong as it is as now, if you cant get on a rock or avoid it by any means, Yea it would need some nerf

[coarse blaze]

My hopes are so low given how many times people have asked for it and Dilo just hasn't been touched in ages.

[vale brook]

ill def ask a dev about it next time i see them in #isle-discussion . dilo has been ignored for a while by them for some reason but it genuinely needs so much work.

[coarse blaze]

I'll look out for it!

[obtuse ocean]

But that was the point of dilo, it can take out someone even in a herd without them beeing protected. Dilo cant trade bites and win, in needs dmg over time.

[vale brook]

yeah, and thats fine

but just biting twice and doing literally nothing else but holding RMB and then not even having the counterplay to the mechanic work is horrendous

like dilo by itself being able to just get 1000+ free damage off two bites... is still bad, but whatever

the fact there is no counter to it outside of unintended "get on rock or die" and even THAT doesnt work half the time is insane

[obtuse ocean]

So it would be better to just give it more bleed or dmg over time without the clones? Even a rock cant save you then. Im not sure if its intentionally that it can counter with jumping on a rock or not. If that gets fixed, yea dilo should need more hits to get a kill

But you can "counter" dilo now as everything

[vale brook]

literally no one has said anything like that

we have given you the exact way to make dilo more interactive with the roster while still keeping the core identity lol

[obtuse ocean]

Yea still its venom, and right now if someone plays teno and die from a dilo. Thats a skill issue i would say lol

[vale brook]

considering at night it takes 2 bites to the body and then the dilo can stand on the other side of the map and spam RMB, thats definitely not a skill issue

theres no way you can look at an animal doing 2 bites and then being absolutely risk free and getting thousands of damage out

troodon has venom

it doesnt sit 100 miles away and watch its prey die

[obtuse ocean]

Your at night time now. So yea maybe dont walk around where its nothing to help you with terrain. Teno can easy defend itself from a dilo

[vale brook]

so the counterplay is dont be on the server at night? not the actual intended counterplay of attacking the clones? are you serious?

[hasty coyote]

So simply don’t play the game for half the time because another playable is op? Seems fair and balanced.

[vale brook]

you have to be ragebaiting at this point.

how are you looking at the intended counterplay of dilo not working and going "yeah this is fine"

[obtuse ocean]

What? I faught alot of teno as dilo, either they defend themelf or jump on a rock. A few is running around like idiots, but thats a skill issue

Meaning ive died alot to tenos as dilo

[vale brook]

jumping on a rock is not the intended counterplay and has been patched and came back several times so uh, i dont care lol

[obtuse ocean]

But it is now, so why dont get the fix first. And then ask for the nerf lol

[vale brook]

okay so what do the animals who cant get on rocks do (i.e 99% of the roster)

[hasty coyote]

Why not both at the same time?

[obtuse ocean]

Its not op, against what ?

[vale brook]

brother it can pour out thousands of damage off 2 bites without any risk to itself after those initial bites

what do you mean.

[obtuse ocean]

It would be op, if you could ie bite a herrera and it jumped up in the three and still got hit by the clones. But rigth now they dont

[vale brook]

having dilo actually have to engage with its hunts is not a bad thing, and i cant believe thats a wild take

[vale brook]

no, if the herrera could actually fight the clones the way thats intended, it would not be OP.

[hasty coyote]

Against basically everything <3tons the moment it gets venom proc. Because it can sit away and deal 1000s of damage with 0 counterplay. The only way to win against dilo is to kill it before it gets stage 3, which is generally in less than 5 bites, even during the day. The only option is to cheese, which works against every dino, except it’s now the ONLY option, and it’s just due to a bug.

[obtuse ocean]

You are, it needs to bite to get the dmg in. And right now you can avoid it by terrain, as i said. If that changes, yea its op

[vale brook]

biting twice and then going to lala land while pressing RMB every 10 seconds is not engaging and you know that

lets not be obtuse, there is no reason for a dilo to actual engage in the hunt outside of the initial attack. it can do literally anything else, press RMB every 10 seconds, and auto win the fight

[obtuse ocean]

What counterplay are you asking for ? Its venom, it does dmg over time. You could remove the clones, and just let the venom do it without the cool clones etc. Dibble can easy kill it, maia can, teno can. Omni can avoid it and use terrain. If you let a dilo bite you 5 times, thats a skill issue if its 1v1

[vale brook]

we've... already said it, multiple times

• have dilo actually require engagement in fights, 1 bite = 1 recharge alongside an increased base recharge time

• have the intended counterplay against clones actually work, i.e allow players to damage the clones before the clones damage them (although harder than it was back during pre diablo days)

[obtuse ocean]

If the clones work eveywhere, even a teno on a rock. Yea it should def be able to counter with killing them, but the recharge would be really bad. Then you would need to buff the dilo stat alot, it cant go around trading hits and its not agile. Especially if its intended to kill stuff that are protected in herds etc.

[vale brook]

you really wouldnt need to buff dilo all that much lol.

its still faster than a majority of the animals in the game, and a dilo thats coordinating decently with its clones will do extremely well. god forbid you have to actually try to kill the thing you want to kill

dont want to trade hits? use the fact the animal is

seeing fake versions of you that still damage them and surrounded by fog

like cmon. be serious.

[obtuse ocean]

Are you serious ? No way im gonna let a dilo thouch me in a 1v1. Speed means nothing, you need to be agile. Its like carno back in the day, fast but zero agile. It was fun having a carno running after you as omni

[vale brook]

except its never a 1v1 because the dilo has 3 other versions of itself to send at you any time it wants

god forbid clone timing actual be somewhat skillfil outside of just spamming them

[obtuse ocean]

I mean you have problem with a dilo as teno lol

[vale brook]

i will never understand the obsession with keeping dilo in the skillless level that its at now where it just facetanks a majority of the roster with 0 consequence

oh, im a cerato? this dilo bit me twice, facetanked both my bites, and now i just die full stop

yay.

[obtuse ocean]

"skilless" so good word. Sounds like pvp is the only skill right. imagine using terrain to your advantage etc

[vale brook]

except thats literally not intended

why are you using the fact clones are buggy to excuse dilo being incredibly badly designed in terms of combat

[obtuse ocean]

Im not even talking about when you have venom, you can easy defend vs a dilo lol

[vale brook]

okay so the topic at hand is venom, lets stay on topic.

[obtuse ocean]

Im trying but your all over the place

[vale brook]

because what relevance does that have to balancing venom if you're not talking about venom

[obtuse ocean]

Cus it would be diffrent talk if we discussed omni with venom, cus that could easy outmanouver you

[vale brook]

alright im ending this here but just to be clear

its okay that dilo

• gets 1000+ damage for free with no risk outside of initial bites
• has no counterplay outside of getting ontop of terrain to avoid clones (which isnt even intended)

awesome sauce. i love that this is how the community thinks now.

[native urchin]

i like the first one option!!

[obtuse ocean]

That ive said to you 2 times now, lol

[vale brook]

the fact you think both of those points are okay is part of the problem btw

[obtuse ocean]

Again: If the clones work eveywhere, even a teno on a rock. Yea it should def be able to counter with killing them

[native urchin]

dilo do need a rework! clones doing dmg for sure its fine to me... in the end, its venom in your blood dmging you technically.... but those recharges need to be recharged by the dilo engaging! or its not fair!! 4 dilos can do up to 1600dmg with just spawnig the first 3 clones

[vale brook]

that doesnt fix the core gameplay being fundementally garbage by the fact dilo only requires 2 bites to kill a large portion of the roster with absolutely 0 risk

"oh but you have to run in and get the first few bites!" yeah and dilo players just tank the hits if you attack them during that so what now lol

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, IF the clones work everywhere, If not right now as it is. Skill issue, teno can avoid etc. Dibble maia can easy defend.

[vale brook]

so instead of fixing dilo, we leave it a buggy mess... awesome awesome

[obtuse ocean]

I said that from the start, if they fix the "bug" you call it. It should be fixed yes

[vale brook]

not to mention how the clones being inconsistent at times really only serves to make dilo absolute dog

because thats what dilo has been since its release. its either incredibly OP with working clones, or one of the worst animals in game because they rarely work.

so what if we just, and heres a kicker, fix dilo, add actual counterplay, add the need for enagegement

[obtuse ocean]

But if you make that change without fixing the "bug" you make dilo garbage right now

[hasty coyote]

You can only kill the dilo if it tries to engage, which it doesn’t have to do the moment it’s venom is stage 3. Especially since it’s incredibly easy to get stage 3 due to dilo biting incredibly fast and having enough hp to tank a few hits.

All I want is for either the clones to be less oppressive or dilo to actually work for them. So either make the clones able to be countered by hitting them first and reduce the damage or duration of venom by half. Or make bites recharge clones and increase the time to recharge. Either way, it gives the opponent the ability to fight back against the clones or the dilo.

[obtuse ocean]

We agree on most, i dont have problem with dilo because of the terrain "abuse". If im maia dibble etc i can defend myself. But yes, if the clones work everywhere and without chance to kill them. Dilo would def need a change.

But that suggestion is just, nerf dilo. Meaning it would be really bad if they changed it. Without fixing the bug aswell.

[faint quail]

the entire point of what has been said is that the clones should work everywhere WITH the counterplay of being able to attack them

thats my understanding from reading the conversation

[vale brook]

yes

like i dont know how it couldve been read any other way

alongside the recharge for engagement but still

[steep gazelle]

I don't see how people think Dilo is balanced. Without Venom, Dilo is useless, and with it, he's unbalanced. Dilo needs a rework

[obtuse ocean]

I dont think we disagree on if its balanced, its how to balance it

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, venom is its main mechanic. It would be like saying Omni is weak without pounce. You can’t make dilo good on its own and then add venom on top of that, then it would def be op any time venom works.

The current issue is just that dilo’s only counterplay is to 1shot it (which is hard since it has 700 hp) or to bug out its venom. It needs a reason to get in the threat range more.

[obtuse ocean]

If we threw away the clones, everything is the same. We gave dilo good bleed. How many times would be fair to interact with a teno for example before it could bleed out ?

[hasty coyote]

The same amount as if it were using clones and mostly dealing raw damage instead. I’m not sure on the exact amount, but enough to give the teno a solid chance to kill the dilo first.

Imo, it should be balanced around the other small tiers first, since they are the ones who suffer the most from dilo. Literally a single bite at night is just instant death to a pachy, or the dilo can just face tank unless the pachy hits a head fracture first try. Similar issue with Omni, but at least Omni has pounce to deal solid damage back, unless the dilo runs off and spams clones.

[warm cloak]

If going afk or logging out is the counter play, then it’s kinda a problem

[steep gazelle]

Yes. I've already made some suggestions about Dilo's venom.

Increase clone cooldown from 8s to 30s

Decrease the sound of Dilo footsteps

Make Dilo recharge a charge whenever he lands a bite on heads or body of something in venom stage 3 (Purple)

Dilo will initially only have 1-2 clone charges, but will have the 3 slots normally

In my opinion, this would make Dilo's gameplay much more interactive while not making him weak

[hasty coyote]

That would def help immensely, though I may suggest lowering the duration of venom a bit as well. Since a reduced duration won’t affect you if you constantly get hits off, but will affect you if you do the bite and clone spam.

[vale brook]

one thing id like to see (but absolutely isnt needed) is allowing Dilophosaurus venom to also be used somewhat defensively during the day rather than being something used to hunt.

ideally, venom during the day would largely focus on the fog and have very ineffective clone damage/spawns/etc on large prey. lower the duration to 2-4 minutes for venom during the day to allow the dilo to escape danger, but not be incredibly oppressive for the thing that initiated the hunt against the dilo.

and then night dilo could stay functionally the same (albeit with the changes mentioned above + a nerf to the time envenomated due to again, the changes to engagement with dilophosaurus mentioned)

small hunts during the day, larger hunts at night.

[spiral kindle]

Yeah ofc charge bite melts. Teno's kicks melt even more cause they guarantee a 2nd kick

And if u tail slam and knock a cera down it confirms 3 kicks

2 ton teno with 2.1 ton carno would be good

[steep echo]

Its actually worse, 39.6

It gets slowed down to hypsi's speed

[vale brook]

@wheat forum #balance-feedback message did you use omnis bleed pounce or did you just sit on the teno

[indigo rain]

...actually valid point did you hold right click while pouncing? because if the teno was 100% bleed thats likely you just using normal pounce which does no damage, spends the least stam, and is only useful to set up pins

[wheat forum]

I was holding down RMB, the Tenno said he had 250% Growth rate plus bleed mutation so I don’t know

[hasty coyote]

were you just holding rmb as you pounced, or did you release rmb and start holding it again after landing? because you have to start holding it again after landing the pounce, otherwise you're just sitting there in neutral.

[wheat forum]

Pounce and than moved up top and pressed Rmb

Well, I guess I got to just test some more stuff. But I do wish we had a mutation for Omni which buffs bleed slightly if not buffing the bleed itself

[hasty coyote]

odd, generally the bleed pounce deals a lot more in my experience, so I really don't know what happened there. If anything, just use damage pounce since its also incredibly powerful (1k damage for a full stam bar)

[wheat forum]

That’s mainly because of all the thing we have which do decrease bleed / give bleed resistance.

[wheat forum]

I guess I just need to play around a little more as an Omni, last I realy played Omni was on Spiro

And the stam changes when gateway was released made me stop playing it tbh

Conclusion

Test it out a little more and maybe revise the suggestion for now

#balance-feedback message

[hasty coyote]

also that just seems counter-intuitive in general, you basically make a must-have mutation for omnis and essentially remove a mutation slot from them. Rather than just removing the actual problem: the bleed resist mutations.

[wheat forum]

Yea, I was just throwing things out here I guess but that’s why it’s good/better to have people to discuss this stuff with

[hasty coyote]

at most it would be liike 25% bleed resistance (bleed res mutaiton + perfect diet), which is nowhere near enough to make you do 0 bleed damage to a teno

[wheat forum]

Yea which I don’t get :/

The other thing that kinda "shocked" me was the fact the Tenno almost made me bleed out during the fight scratching me once and kicking me 1-2x, I got bugged in a tree so I got kicked.

[hasty coyote]

teno does do a lot of bleed, especially if it gets multiple hits

[wheat forum]

Tenno the Herbi Raptor…

Anyways I got to get some sleep it’s 2AM and I got work in 5H

[hasty coyote]

Cya then, sleep well

[wheat forum]

Cya ❤️

[cobalt dagger]

Pounce-to-pin is awful, like on all fronts. Being an omni trying to all get on a target at once before it rubs you off on a tree or a cliff is awful, then when you finally get it the prey has to just, have an extended death screen.

I feel like tap-pounce bleed was more fair for both sides (tap pounce harder to knock off on tree if raptor not staying on) but raptor is so janky.

Right now tap-pounce bleed isn't effective because raptor, like, doesn't really bleed stuff out anymore.

I do think pounce-to-pin should remain in the game but, I wish something could change in the way it works. Right now if there is a duo they'll just bite the raptors off their pinned friend, pounce to pin really just punishes solos for being, well, solo, and making raptor DEPENDENT on pounce to pin (like it is right now) makes it so that raptors just, can't attack duos, which is dumb in my eyes.

I want raptors to be able to attack duos and not depend on pounce to pin, and I don't want to destroy pounce to pin but somehow I'd like a change because it kinda just seems to exist to make solo's lives harder.

Basically I agree with you though, I want raptors to be bleeders again, or at least capable of, and then I'd like some kind of balance to pounce-to-pin.

Honestly, I want raptors to be dangerous to rexes in groups. That and trikes need to be more dangerous to rexes than they are right now. What if we balanced things so trikes bleed out rexes in the right conditions and with enough hits? That would encourage rex to try to win fast or give up before sustaining injuries too grave to flee, and it would encourage trike to play slow and defensively. Also enormous horns LOOK like they'd cause a lot of bleed...

And if we do that then maybe Raptor can also be an occasional hunter of rex - Risky because I assume rex would one-shot them, but if rex can bleed then it would be possible.

Teno and cera both have really good bleed resist, but I'm implying maybe Rex shouldn't.

If we turned raptors into viable bleeders again, then they could probably have an easier time taking down the all-too-prevalent baby rexes.

[hasty coyote]

teno doesnt have any bleed resistance at base as far as I know, just solid blood pool since it has a solid weight.

[hasty coyote]

also it wont help them much, since any rex smaller than them just gets pinned anyways, and any rex bigger just pins them instead

because pin mechanics are fair and balanced

[cobalt dagger]

I pretty much mean teno is hard to bleed. In my experience it seems equally hard to bleed as a cera, or maybe only slightly harder.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah pins are janky. Though to be honest pins are awful but really they're just an extended one-shot. The adult rex probably oneshot it already no pin required.

[hasty coyote]

tenos generally play more defensive, so they move less and bleed less that way.

[cobalt dagger]

I can forsee raptors still trying to take on a rex the way they would still try a trike. Both one shot, one just has an extended one shot.

But the fact that BABY rexes one shot things while also being fast is pretty crazy.

[hasty coyote]

Imo: omnis grapple and a large rex pinning something small are fine. Basically a cool death animation. A 60kph 1 ton rex pinning anything 1kg lighter and breaking their legs instantly is just not fair.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah. There definitely needs to be some kinda, like, only pin things half your weight or something for rex.

[hasty coyote]

solo pin just requires much higher requirements than just 1-tapping anything 1kg lighter

[cobalt dagger]

Babies also don't have the mouths for bone breaking, visually.

[hasty coyote]

imo, half your weight at sub+ and fractures, 1/4th while juvie and no fractures

that would immediately help rex a lot

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah like scaling like that seems good too.

I don't mind raptor's solo pin staying unchanged because raptor is small and small tiers will need some love if they are expected to be played after things like rex exist

I also do prefer pounce to pin remains in the game in the sense that a teamwork-involving tool exists to take down larger apexes

I feel like raptor should be the small thing most built to do that, if anything y'know?

I just don't like the way it punishes solos and it's useless against groups...

But I do want 'a teamwork based thing that uses the power of friendship to take down apexes'

[hasty coyote]

omni pin I can begrudgingly say is fine since most smaller dinos generally have ways to deal with much larger threats who can 1-tap them.

Grapple is fine as is though, a solid finisher with high enough requirements that it isnt unfair.

[cobalt dagger]

Begrudgingly is understandable.

I don't like grapple as is but maybe it's requirements got increased since last I knew it.

I feel like grapple is too weak in the places I want it strong and too strong in the places I want it weak.

[hasty coyote]

omnis just fundamentally struggle against groups, with or without grapple. But thats kinda just a flaw in their design rather than anything thats really solvable, unless you make omnis completely intangible while pouncing

[cobalt dagger]

Do you know if when you bite an omni off a friend, if it also bites the friend? of course they could just take the time to aim better so they're only hitting the omni, but that bit of extra time to aim gives omni a bit of extra time to get off and run.

It's not really fair to buff omni so that it's powerful enough to fight groups with it's own groups. So you're right that it's kinda inevitable.

Maybe it's in the food we gotta look at. More chickens and goats, and less boars? Give rexes less food via sea turtles? Maybe we just need to make the omni maintence easier and rex maintence harder so that groups of rexes are more rare and groups of omni more common?

That will increase omni's chances of outnumbering a rex.

[hasty coyote]

depending on where you hit, you can easily hit only your friend and not the omni, it does take some solid aim for certain attacks. Like I was messing around a while ago and learned that ceras really struggle to bite omnis off a deino (instead they just hit the deino most the time) but a pachy alt attack will just hit both the deino and the omni every time.

[cobalt dagger]

Weird

I also think rex has no business eating a buncha boars and deer

Like, from a game balance perspective, sustaining off of it

[hasty coyote]

it really just depends on the attack and the dino. Like stegos arent gonna try and get omnis off each other unless they got REALLY good aim (and will just headshot each other if the omni is on the slot above the head)

[hasty coyote]

I think its fine for the early game, the issue is when that rex starts getting bigger and now just feeds off diablo ai

[cobalt dagger]

As a steg if an omni was latched on a friend I would nip it. It does 60 dmg a bite unless that changed and can bite pretty fast so it'll put a bit of heat on the omni.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah I don't mind baby rexes eating that stuff, if baby rexes didn't massacere everything within their weight range and sometimes even above

[hasty coyote]

one thing that would help omni's matchups a lot imo, would be to make bucking dependent on the dino. So a pachy may buck omni off very quickly so it doesnt deal that much damage, but a rex may have a really hard time bucking the omni off, allowing it to deal a lot of damage. And from there, prob nerf scraping in some way so it isnt just insta death most the time.

[hasty coyote]

yeah that second part is the main issue. Fractures are way over tuned (as I have been saying for a while now) so they are just a death sentence the moment you have a combat-capable dino, like a juvie rex thats 1 ton and running at 60kph.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah... Bucking seems like a good alternative to scraping, if we balance it right.

[native urchin]

rex bleeds out fast.... it has the worst bleed resistance of all playables im pretty sure xD

i got pounced by an omni last night, and seems like knocking down is buggy again... rocks were not knocking omni down no more, and no tree worked... i had to buck

[final sierra]

Fix Dibble Slide In HT. Only Balancing problem I've encountered

[rigid tulip]

It looks like allo is going to be a fusion of rex and omni

Essentially a 2.5 ton pinner/pouncer

[sweet estuary]

#balance-feedback message somone had to say it

[faint robin]

@native urchin yeah rex vs trike is "balanced" btw
26:45
https://youtu.be/pqME5ZrZZ8E?si=GSEwynMXQWHrT45B

Bonebreak on like 1st crush, how is it balanced

Rex pinning prime trike

[wanton current]

the idea that ur diet slows ur aging after 75% is brilliant. It will give ppl a better chance to enjoy the prime elder benefits. I like the idea.

[native urchin]

@twilit seal hahahahah

[faint robin]

Why are you tagging the author always

[native urchin]

u realize that is a very very bad trike right XD

[faint robin]

I don't care, its prime elder vs fg and it was facing it

[native urchin]

it got behind

[twilit seal]

I bonebroke it at 5th crush

It just didnt spar

And pinned it at 7th which was the killing blow

[faint robin]

There are 2 dmg sounds at max

W bb on 2nd one

[twilit seal]

Its buggy, I do know as the player which ones i hit

Also it probably had fg trike hp, cuz of the bug

Not actual 12.4 ton hp

[native urchin]

so? he tried, knowing one mistake he would die! but thankfully trike was a dummy, and panicked thrashed the air for no reason xD

stop crying, and learn how to fight as trike! dont make mistakes

[faint robin]

5 crushes in 10 sec
Thats a spammy bb pin 3k dmg attack lol

[twilit seal]

I mean I do think crush should have a longer cooldown, and Im cancelling it

Which is a bug

[faint robin]

But instead prime trike did one mistake and died, too unforgiving for an animal made to face its opponents vs ambush hunter don't even trying to ambush

[native urchin]

bro stood there taking hits, didnt get in spar mode, tried nothing! i wondered how he got to prime either

[faint robin]

Bro stood there taking hits because unlike rex spamming 7 crushes in 15 sec trike takes a good 4-5 sec 2 hits standing to get full thrash

[hasty coyote]

he was drifting to turn as fast as he could, which wasnt enough, missed 2 attacks, then got leg broken and couldn't turn. Plus the vid says this is an 8 ton rex, it aint even full grown

[native urchin]

run away and start slidign!

[faint robin]

Rex doing 7 crushes in less than 15 sec is unhealthy

[native urchin]

mr gray killed plenty, none got behind.,... skill issue

[hasty coyote]

1: he can't run away? the rex is faster
2: he did, he tried it twice, the drift got nerfed in ht

[faint robin]

Keep in mind every crush is 3k dmg, can pin and can bb you

Basically assault rifle fire LOL

[native urchin]

Don’t have to run far, just start running and slide!

[faint robin]

Mr gray fought fg rexes 2 times in his vid

[hasty coyote]

he literally was, the drift got nerfed so he couldnt turn around fast enough

[faint robin]

I don't see how you counter rex spamming its strongest move like every second

[hasty coyote]

just don't get hit apparently

[native urchin]

Trike is defensive… if u stand still and face it, Rex can’t get behind

[faint robin]

Unaproachable by smaller things for sure (rex also has fast ahh alt)

[faint robin]

Rex crushing air

[hasty coyote]

all you shown was one rex whiffing an attack and getting punished, then getting away with it (unlike the trike who died instantly because leg break) Then a bunch of rexes playing way too passively

[native urchin]

Why trike is? 🥲 trike is safe at 25% from anything aside Rex

[faint robin]

Trike is manageable, rex can spam alts and crush

[hasty coyote]

doesnt matter if the moment a rex appears, it just evaporates if the rex has more than 1 function brain cell

[native urchin]

Managebal? I one shotted a full grown c’era at 25%

[faint robin]

Skill issue

[cobalt dagger]

I'm not excited about it but yeah.

[faint robin]

Trike turns like a truck even w spar, and has slow ahh alts

[native urchin]

Like that trike! Embarassing the way he let it behind

But I’m growing trike myself. I’ll get clips if I make it to fg

U call stego a foddler to Rex, I killed so many Rexes my size 🥲

[hasty coyote]

and that cera could just choose not to engage a trike who is obviously large enough to be a threat to 1 tap them. Unlike rex, trike doesnt get the luxury of choosing its battles.

[hasty coyote]

key word is your size

[native urchin]

It’s the strongest dino in the game

[hasty coyote]

and trike is the slowest, so that makes sense.

[faint robin]

Trike made 1 mistake and died, considering its also slower and can't spam high dmg pin bb attacks - thats clearly too punishing for a trike
Rexes don't even try to ambush trikes - they just go in, trike makes 1 mistake and its dead

[native urchin]

For sure, I don’t complain !

[native urchin]

Rex makes one mistake and he dead

[faint robin]

You clearly showed its not 🙂

Dude got cc'd, still survived thrash and just disengaged
Rex doesn't care about mistakes

[native urchin]

Welcome to same size battles that all other playables aside from trike and stegos until now

[hasty coyote]

shows rex getting headshot knockdown and thrash and living

[native urchin]

Learn PvP. Simple!

[faint robin]

Stop defending rex spamming 7 crushes in 15 sec dude

[native urchin]

It’s prime Rex vs old prime trike with nerfed dmg

[wanton current]

I kinda agree. The trike didn't seem to know how to play against a rex. And if the trike was just a FG against a prime elder rex? That's obviously gonna end in favor of the rex. Especially if the trike was a frail elder.

[native urchin]

Stop crying because something can reliably hunt trike! Learn the Dino!

[faint robin]

If rex doesn't know how to play against trike - it'll get hit and just walk away

[hasty coyote]

difference is, all other dinos either have an even fight, have a speed difference, or have a gimmick to escape. Trike is disadvantaged in the fight, is slower, and has no escape gimmick. Thats the issue.

[faint robin]

You shouldn't reliably kill trike after facing it on an ambush predator which is tad faster

[wanton current]

Wrong. I've seen rex die to trike before.

[native urchin]

Rex is out after one knock and thrash, bigger dmg output so no! Trike has the advantage

[faint robin]

Clearly wanted to die then

[hasty coyote]

yes, and then we have 8 ton rex killing a prime trike for 1 mistake. So still rex can make multiple mistakes so long as its even at a slight age advantage, trike can't make a single one no matter what.

[wanton current]

No, it's called a skill issue.

[native urchin]

I solod stegos and trikes as cera 😭 just cause player is ass doesn’t mean the Dino is ass! LEARN the game

[faint robin]

Rex is alive after those (which are still too hard to land)
Rex can just shoot crushes until everything is dead

[hasty coyote]

I can agree that trike prob should have lost since it was doing badly, but it should not have lost THAT quickly. The margin for error is abysmally small compared to rex.

[wanton current]

I do agree with that, however. Crush bite's a tad too op and spammable.

[faint robin]

True

[native urchin]

Bite force is already on the 600/700! so it does a lot of dmg

[faint robin]

Vs 900 and 9.5 tons of a trike

[twilit seal]

It needs a longer cooldown, and the cancel bug should be fixed, at least when you miss

[wanton current]

Especially since juvis are capable of breaking bones on dinos that weigh much more than itself. AND the fact that everytime u fight a rex, the lag shoots up.

[native urchin]

Yea, didn’t hit him hahah gotta hit to do dmg 🥲

[twilit seal]

Idk about the lag, but rex shouldnt be able to bone break below sub I agree

[faint robin]

That rex didnt do a single bite, just crush shooting

[wanton current]

yuh u peak my feedback about it?

[native urchin]

Yea, trike only needed one hit, too bad he couldn’t

[twilit seal]

Yeah had already upvoted

[native urchin]

The better players wins, simple

[hasty coyote]

unless its a headshot thrash, rex can tank it. Thrash only deals 6000, and the knockdown only deals 900 (with adult stats).

So trike has to be at perfect stats and not disadvantaged in the slightest and the rex needs to make a major error so that the trike lands a headshot thrash

Rex just needs the trike to whiff a single attack and the trike loses leg privileges and dies

[wanton current]

Based.

[faint robin]

Doing ooga booga big dmg doesn't matter if you will less likely hit it. Thrash on trike can only be hit after cc'ing

[wanton current]

Yea. It's a 50/50 encounter for both species IF they're both, say, prime elders at 85%.

[native urchin]

Only🥲

Rex is orange after that, basically out of the fight! Considering u can hit it again cause Rex stays down forever

[hasty coyote]

I never said trike was bad, or stego was bad. I have said they have bad matchups against rex.

Rex crush is op in its current iteration and needs nerfs

[faint robin]

Rn its heavily favouring rex

[native urchin]

Yea, if u have a skill issue!

[faint robin]

Ig rex spamming 7 crushes in 15 sec is a skill issue

[hasty coyote]

yes, but trike dying that easily to a rex with a disadvantage says a lot about how strong an actual adult rex is.

[wanton current]

That's subjective tho. I've seen some trikes decimate rex, and vise versa

[native urchin]

No, cause bro let him behind

[hasty coyote]

I wouldnt consider it a 50/50, trike has to play much better to stand a chance. So long as the rex doesnt make an egregious mistake, its fine. If that trike makes a single mistake, it dies.

[wanton current]

I suppose... The same can be said for the rex, tho.

[faint robin]

Let my trike spam endless thrash ticks while also moving and having bb+pin on them, then it'll match w rex spamming crushes

[wanton current]

u can just cancel ur thrash

[hasty coyote]

orange and out of the fight is not equal to flat out death from the trike making a mistake. and you dont get another hit unless the rex decides to go back into the fight. Even if the rex does decide to stay, a single mistake from trike still means that the rex gets leg fracture and wins.

[golden coral]

As someone put it, only the last point of hp matters

[faint robin]

Also in a rex fight u basically die at orange
In a trike fight u must be behind red.

[native urchin]

Spoiler alert, If u chase Rex bleeds out, and you outstam Rex! But you would know if u guys tried Rex!

[faint robin]

Trike doesn't outstam rex

[wanton current]

i think it does. Rex's stam sucks

[native urchin]

Yes

[hasty coyote]

rex got behind from a single opening and almost immediately broke the trike's legs. should the trike be punished for that? yes definitely. Should the trike get its leg privileges immediately removed from that? no.

[faint robin]

Trike has a bit more stam yet runs a lot slower

[native urchin]

took 7 crushes, but if u played rex u would know

[faint robin]

15 seconds

[rigid tulip]

Literally my favorite dinosaur of all time since i was 9 and my legacy main but now i’ll never touch it

I know it wouldn’t happen but honestly I just hope they completely delete allos pin

[golden coral]

Question is more so, can the trike prevent the rex from finishing the job from that point, before it gets broken?

[rigid tulip]

And scrap it for a better and more unique and interactive idea. The amount of pins we have rn in the game is already enough lol we don’t need any more for the duration of this entire games life cycle

Especially as the core concept of what will probably be the most popular and common and influential predator

[hasty coyote]

again, rex just needs to not get knocked down with its head right in front of trike (which is easy not to do if you are actively trying to circle the trike), trike needs to not whiff a single attack. The margin of error is definitely in rex's favor, especially since rex holds the speed advantage and can choose when to attack.

Honestly, preferably both crush and thrash get solid nerfs so theres a chance for an actual battle and not "you made a single mistake, lose 10 hours of your life"

[faint robin]

Thrash is fine, its stationary

And is a 2 hit attack

Rex crush is basically thrash but w more effects on it and is spammable, easier to hit

[rigid tulip]

I literally looked at the comments on the allo dev videos and everyone was like “damn i hope it having a pin and latch mechanic is just temporary what a horrible idea” lol

We’re so cooked man

[faint robin]

I also dislike that you die on orange in a rex fight since haha funny pin autowin

[hasty coyote]

took 4 hits to leg break within 12 seconds, and only like 30% of rex's stam. And leg break is just guaranteed death

[hasty coyote]

I will say, trying to get around the trike can be difficult if the trike plays perfectly, but the moment you do, you just win. Because, as you can see in the clip, it can't turn fast enough to get them off. All it takes is that trike slipping up once. Meanwhile rex slipping up once just gets a slap to the face and leaves, or stays so that it can still just insta kill with a leg break after a single mistake.

Preferably heres all I would want:

Rex:
crush either deals severly less fracture damage or just 0 fracture damage unless it pins the target. At least until fractures get the rebalance they really need.
crush pin threshold is now 50% of your weight at base (so it increases to 100% once the target is low)
crush animation cancel is removed (obviously broken)

Trike:
Nerf thrash to deal 3000 damage total but give it a faster animation (like only 1.5-2 seconds long rather than 3 seconds) OR nerf it to like 4500 and keep the animation length (either way, the goal is to make headshot thrash not insta death, but still a really solid attack)
revert the drift nerf (so it actually can turn quickly once the rex does get behind)

Now they actually have a solid fight and both have room for error.

[indigo rain]

...omni can have up to 8?

[hasty coyote]

yeah was about to say, it goes up to 8

[keen plover]

it's a 0 stam cost ability with absurdly high damage. It is not fine. Same with Rex crush

[faint robin]

Rex crush is tad better
Trike's thrash is mostly missing unless you cc smth which was nerfed

[keen plover]

I'm not saying Crush is better or worse. It's definitely overtuned. Same with thrash though. They both need nerfs / stam costs/ higher stam costs to activate.

[faint robin]

Thrash can only get its dmg a bit lowered
Crush needs a massive tuning (mostly down)

[native urchin]

Nope, u are 3.4 tons smaller! Run!
U do have a chance when y are same size, but not if it’s bigger!

[dusky surge]

you're also slower tho lmao

so run is not the best advice

[twilit seal]

Stego speed and stam was buffed actually, its as fast as a rex (literally same speed) and much more stam, if rex doesnt ambush it cant really effectively catch a stego. Trike has to fight tho

[abstract garden]

You should be able to hit rex while it pins, the pin is already overpowered like hell and the size difference is so little

[deft breach]

Thx exactly that was the Problem , when he Pins you cant Hit. Rex is a nobrainer and in Not that Bad at Steg ^^

[deft breach]

Yea I understand your Point, Bit has it rly to be 800% stronger with an ulti mechanic?

Yea you could compare it to an omni pin. But omnis Can only pin like 20% of all dinos. Rex Can apparently pinn 100% with no Chance of survival

Rex Atm Can destroy the Wohle Game imo

And yes im a Bit hurt that a 3-4hr grow got so ez obliterated without any skill and Chance of survival

[abstract garden]

Exactly.
I hate when people say "its a rex"
Yea dude and theres a stego with 4 daggers as long as its skull

Just because its rex doesnt excuse its mechanic to be broken and not allow especially stego to fight back since it can defenetly fight back in that position with a lethal attack

[abstract garden]

Adult rex 4 shots a prime elder trike if you pin 2 times so yea that thing is broken like hell

Maybe 6 if the trike has some wild skill

But otherwise fighting anything as rex is so easy maybe aside from cera

[faint robin]

Rex takes no skill

Factually big ooga booga cera

With at least 2 autowin mechanics (bb+pin)

[rigid tulip]

People are gonna start realizing eventually that pins are just slop for this game as a whole

[faint robin]

All no counter mechanics are slop esp when u have to grow half a day just to get killed w no counterplay

Idk in what world devs even thought that big dmg+pin+bb on one attack is balanced. Rex just feeds on whole roster. Those are not fights, its rex feeding.

But dondi is rex glazer so they most likely won't even nerf rex
"Uh erm its meant to be op" will be his answer remember my word

Why is rex alt bite also the speed of sound btw?
Trike has it age long
Rex basically got everything good possible

[hasty coyote]

Hopefully, I have been saying this for a while now with Omni

[native urchin]

show me! play rex and kill trikes and stegos

i have seen plenty of videos of people playing rex, and they make me cringe

tbh, with the direction the game is taking, every playable has become no skill.... its all spam attacks or big hitbox

[faint quail]

imo, dondi is forgetting that this is a game first and not real life. realism is great, i love the isle for its realism and difficulty. however is simply not fun in any way to grow for hours, just to end up being 1 shot by something, and then get told "well this is a realism game, you shouldnt have been drinking water / under a tree / out in the open."... oh so you mean dont play the game ?

its the whole "if you dont like it, leave" mentality that i feel is ruining this game. if we dont like something, we make it better instead of leaving it to rot.

[faint quail]

also this is actually making me cackle. i love how rex bites through the stegos plates to pin it, as if it wouldnt break its face trying to do that. also, while stego is pinned, it should be fully capable of whacking the rex with its tail as its just FLAILING IN THE AIR lmaoo

"realism but only when it suits me"

[deft breach]

youre a vry ignorant person, its a game with equal chances, REX gives no equal chances youve made a monster ^^

and i play omni main, its also dead bc of rex juvies 🙂

[deft breach]

why do you even said this when you gave youself the answer?

[faint quail]

what are you even on about, im agreeing that rex is too strong. did you read what i said or just jump to conclusions ?

[faint quail]

this is is hardly coherent.

[deft breach]

conclusions sry red only 1st part XD

[faint quail]

all good, it happens

[rigid tulip]

I was an omni main until pin bro it’s so sad

Like i just do not want to play uninteractive combat. No thank you

Thats all it comes down to

[rigid tulip]

Trike should be beating rex pretty consistently tbh

And have a big upper hand

It cant run after all. And in real life rex likely never successfully killed a healthy trike

Im no paleontologist but I was told it wouldve been 80/20 in trikes favor

I would like the matchup to be like how cera vs teno is now honestly

[sand dune]

Damn came here to hope stego could work and it doesnt... it shouldnt be able to pin something that large...

[deft breach]

No im Rly sry for missreading… you Said the same things as me and my english left out XD sry

[faint quail]

lol i appreciate the apology 🙂 sometimes the tone doesnt quite transfer through. but its honestly infuriating to me that rex can pin stego, so i get it haha

[sand dune]

As a Balance Rex should only be able to pin things half its weight its just a Land Deino

[faint quail]

it makes me so happy to hear that some omni mains dont like it either. i dont main omni, but i really enjoyed it before pins. now its just a more intense stam management simulator than before, while making the dino boring.

i enjoyed the "run in and get a couple bites using my superior agility, before narrowly escaping death" playstyle

[rigid tulip]

I still like it more than any other carnivore because its risky and it can punch up if you’re good enough tho

Thats what makes the game fun

High risk high reward situations

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message

[crimson crater]

people finally realizing that grazing is the antithesis of survival

[vale brook]

i love to see it

[twilit marlin]

same goes for AI for carnivores

[vale brook]

you know what

yeah

but like

thats basically socialism in this server to suggest carnivores above a certain weight threshhold should have to actually work for their kills

its a pipe dream that i will happily smoke but i am aware it is but a dream

unless you're on a no ai server, peak

but then the little guys get extra screwed

i stand by u for saying what people are too scared to say ✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻

[twilit marlin]

yeah i know its a dream. i can run around for ages and not find anyone, let alone someone i can fight and eat. AI is kinda needed

but i hope some day that will no longer be the case.

[vale brook]

oh.

im taking back my standing ovation

[twilit marlin]

it kind of worked on the first few evrima builds, there was no AI and you could generally find other utahs around the swamps near bp mountain.

[wet sleet]

@floral wyvern There is really not much abuse there.

There is no "combat logging", because you leave a corpse.
Carnivores aren't entitled to a "real fight" and their goal is to get food not to deny other players anything.
And if you want to provide free food for your buddies you are better off suiciding/letting them kill you as a big juvi or at most fully grown adult.
Sure you won't get buffed mutations but that doesn't outweigh the added time spent getting to 100% with no additional food provided.

So what little abuse there is has basically nothing to do with entombment.

[dusky surge]

"Imagine a pack of wolves circling a deer and it simply falls down dead"

Those wolves would be overjoyed lmao

All of the food with none of the injury/energy spent

[rigid tulip]

none of the fun of the videogame spent

[dusky surge]

Not every single hunt you take is going to be a 100% frail elder that drops dead when it sees you lmao

Take that food, and survive long enough to reach another hunt

It's no different to finding a random corpse in the middle of nowhere, except this corpse moves more

[slim dragon]

Also it's realistic
Old dinos gets too much stress and has a heart attack

And the alternative is denying someone their entombment despite having reached 100% because... a predator saw them right before they died ?

[wet sleet]

I heard discouraging active gameplay is the pinnacle of fun in a video game. /s

Guess the carnivore players would have liked it more if the prey just hid away in some corner of the map and immediately pressed the button to avoid losing the ability to do so.

And it's not like an attack on a 100% frail elder wouldn't be a horribly onesided curb stomp to begin with.

[dusky surge]

tbf, that's a good point

what exactly is the alternative here? they just die offscreen and that makes it better?

[hasty coyote]

I'd personally prefer if they had to at least like lay down for a bit to die. Like you press entomb, then do the standard log out sleep (potentially with reduced time to like 15-30 seconds or so), but instead you just fall dead and the fade to black gets you directly to the replication menu.

So the frail elder has to make sure they are safe to die peacefully, rather than just hitting the button mid-combat right as you're about to die. You def can do it right as they find you, so long as you have enough time. But if you get ambushed, you get ambushed.

[mint star]

elder Herrera 360 midair entombment

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/viking-jump-viking-leap-off-cliff-man-jump-viking-beast-mode-gif-15761641664830433810

[wet sleet]

Realistically, because frail elders are just so bad you are sitting in some hidey hole for quite a while already.

[hasty coyote]

I think thats more of an issue with frail elders being WAY too punishing. They should be at a disadvantage, but they shouldn't just become flat out fodder.

[tiny thicket]

So this is an assumption that every carnivore should get injured during a hunt.

[indigo rain]

Ill be real regardless of any changes made most elders will hide before 90% to avoid death and just wait to entomb, so for that last 10% you are guaranteed most wont engage with the game unless you are a 4th gen prime deino who is at that point so big and tanky only a similar prime or a group can kill it

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message kissen already said that anti-mixpacking features would likely recieve more work and attention when elders are done lol

[junior wagon]

@stark knoll you dont like Deinos or something?

Why would you not want Deino to match Rex bite force? Unless you just hate Deino, then it kind of makes sense.

[stark knoll]

It's both untrue and unnecessary imo

RMB exists, deino effectively got a weight buff this patch

[junior wagon]

Unnecessary how? And what about prime rexes or trikes that you can

So you are justifying weaker bite force beacuse of a lunge mechanic lol

[stark knoll]

Deinos shouldn't even be considering prime rexes and trikes as targets, not even prime deinos

That's about as deep as it gets for me, I just don't think it's necessary at all "New big thing is here" isn't a justified reason for a buff

[junior wagon]

Thats not true, if they swim Deino should be able to bite them and with 450-650 bite force that isn't 'balanced'

[stark knoll]

And it can already do that, and a pair can bodyblock to get them stuck in the water

[junior wagon]

It is literally an oversight, you are justifying weaker bite force because of a pin/lunge mechanic.

[junior wagon]

You want to die you body block a rex bud.

You realize how much more damage Rex will do with alt bites. Sitting there to body block a prime rex or trike is gonna go bad so fast.

So let me get this straight, you still think because Prime deino can grab 10.1 tons it shouldnt get increase in bite force? Right now it's damage output is laughable even in water and using the reasoning that they can lunge smaller targets is crazy.

They should even get a pin mechanic, where it can be used with multiple gators.

if you gave us this, at least a pin mechanic, then sure I can agree with you it's not needed. A pin mechanic where 2 8 ton gators can jump out and pin a bigger prey should be implemented.

If two 8 ton gators jumped a sole rex, that rex should get ripped apart. Vice versa the rexes return the favor to gators when on land.

[golden coral]

But deino isn't supposed to hunt such large targets, and giving it much higher biteforce, might mess up the matchup with spino as well

As well as the issue of using the bite instead of the lunge for hunting smaller targets

[steep echo]

I mean there is a big difference in a mirror matchup of rexes and a mirror matchup of deinos, probably due to the different mindsets behind their stats when each were being developed

I wouldn't mind deino being brought up to the new normal, or rex/trike being brought down

[golden coral]

Would it be nice if deino and stego were both brought up to apex level, sure. But neither of them are meant to have that power. They've made it clear that an apex is an apex, and so far trike and rex are the apexes, no others. Not sure what the mirror matchups have to do with it, but if you increased deino biteforce, wouldn't that just make their mirror match even worse?

[steep echo]

I'm advocating for bringing apex damage down, mostly because I do think mirror matches are worse off with so little room for error. I kind of expected apex tier to be the polar opposite of tiny tier. The small guys do big damage relative to their size because they have to punch up, whereas apexes only have to punch down

[golden coral]

Yeah, that I can agree with. Making both rex and trike slightly less powerful would be nice, but I doubt they want that. And yeah, I've heard the matchups, presumably both mirror and vs each other, are rather quick fights, which is not really ideal to me at least

[steep echo]

I also never liked the "it makes sense because it's an apex" argument since it puts the few largest playables in this exclusive club where they don't have to be in balance with anyone outside of it. Something like deinosuchus is absolutely ginormous, but it's not the biggest there is, so it doesn't have that right. It doesn't get to be 0% heavier than its target to execute it, it has to be 2x as large to drag it down under.

[hasty coyote]

the point is that deino is entirely based around lunge, not brawling. When its out of its element, it has lost any advantages it has. Theres literally 0 reason for a deino to ever want to fight a rex, because deino can simply decide to not interact by staying underwater.

Also, its intended to be a much more solitary playable, not packing up with a whole bunch to drag down larger targets.

[junior wagon]

Deino is an apex predator bro, they get 13.5 tons but a measily 550 bite force. that's laughable, it should do more damage when trike's base damage is double almost, dont let me bring up the thrash attack.

[hasty coyote]

The devs have said they don't consider deino an "apex"

Even then, it still has what is equivalently a 6750-10125 damage attack with lunge. Use that, if you can't, then don't engage. You are the one who gets to choose to engage or not. You don't need to kill everything, some things can just be avoided.

[golden coral]

In the game, it's not quite considered an apex. And yes, it has low biteforce due to having the lunge, and being intended to use the lunge, rather than the bite to kill. That which you can not lunge, you aren't really meant to hunt.

[junior wagon]

13.5 ton monster is not apex, lol thats a joke of an excuse. But hey it's their game, like adding stupid bridges they clearly shouldnt have added the deino if they were to thwart its lifestyle so much.

That's my opinion, why add bridges? So many safe spots, they did one good change and that was focusing food in the center of delta which means lots of carnivores and sometimes herbivores living by the river.

But they have a pond to drink from like <500m away, bridges to cross almost every km so they dying to Deino is really a lazy choice or desperation. We get fed off chance, not even AI come to the water which is stupid.

[golden coral]

Well, no, not quite, since it's not just the size that determines it. But it could also be argued deino is an apex, just not one who's job it is to fight other apexes. Similar to how a 9T or whatever stego gets up to, is apex too, and still it runs from rex and trike, just like deino has to.

I would imagine that they added a lot of those things, because deino is a very unfun and unengaging playable to deal with, due to the lunge and how it's far too close to RNG if you die to a deino or not. If deino was easier to spot, or the lunge could be more easily juked, then there might not be as much need for safe spots and such.

Agreed on the AI, it should eat and drink, just like players.

[junior wagon]

Ya i completely agree with your points with the sole exception is when they enter the water and start swimming. Then it should be fair game if Deino matches weight at least comparatively speaking the bite force and damage.

[golden coral]

I could agree, but it would seem that the devs do not, and it's their game so. They did put it something like "a rex is a rex, no matter where it goes", so I guess you're meant to avoid it, even when it's swimming. And then there is of course spino, which is probably going to be even worse to deal with.

[junior wagon]

Rex can already defend itself quite fine even if devs buffed Deino biteforce to 800. Rex would still outdps the Deino unless Deino bites the feet. But smart rexes fight in shallow waters where they are pretty much walking lol.

If rex fights in shallow waters, the prime rex can mess up prime deino pretty bad which is completely fine. All I ask is a humble buff in bite force, not much more(well maybe pin mechanic too but that needs lots of work to implement).

[viscid mica]

@junior wagon FG base deino is 500 not 450

[junior wagon]

frail is 450, prime drops to 550

i said 450-650

[native urchin]

there is path of titans for that! u can play a small raptor, and u can take 3 bites from a giga before u die! if u think that is what an apex should be.

but to me, its frustrating when small playable are capable of killing big stuff with ease.... and lets not forget, trike got buffed, because people complained it was "too easy" to die to ceras or other stuff, so they buffed the dmg to one shot anything pretty much

[native urchin]

i do agree deino bite force is laughable.... i would agree buffing it to 800, even 1000 for prime tbh. but this wouldnt change the matchup vs the other apexes, deino is not meant to fight on land.

i think, deino will be buffed when more semi aquatics will be added, especially spino!

[vale brook]

deino is meant to run from spino

well, swim i guess

[native urchin]

most likely, but that also means that if a spino decides to come west rail pond, the deino is just dead, cause it cant run anywhere!

but also to deal with sucho, spino, deinocheirus... it will need a buff in bite force imo!

deino was one of the scariest animals in its time, no one was messing with it, 500 bite force seems pretty laughable (considering cera does 350 with the charge bite)

[vale brook]

then deino should not be putting itself in a super cramped space like that

[native urchin]

well, gateway is not very favorable to deinos, but im guessing they will probably change the map by the time spino comes out

[vale brook]

it'll just drown suchos, assuming they can be drowned

deinocherius is so far out that any assumption of its stats is just weird

and deino is not a brawler to begin with, its not meant to be engaging in actual fights all that often outside of fights within its own species

[native urchin]

well, would still hunt anything that swims, its still an apex of its niche

im not saying deino should have a fair fight with a spino, spino will probably jsut grab it and maul it to death, but, multiple deinos should not be an easy fight for spino! and a buff in bite force is deserved for the poor deino!

im not a deino player at all btw, barely played it

[vale brook]

yes, and thats why it got major buffs in this update

it can grab swimming FG rexes when its prime

it is STILL not a brawler, it has just had its ambush niche expanded upon

[native urchin]

only weight buff, which helps in drowning.

as a rex or trike i am not worried about swimming even if 2 deinos are there XD they dont deal enough dmg, which should not be the case

[vale brook]

in your opinion it shouldnt be the case, but unfortunately thats how it is going to be lol

devs have already confirmed that just because a rex swims, doesnt mean it stops being a rex lol

[native urchin]

i dont see how this is related xD its not a fight, u cant fight a deino in water, it just gets around you.

a rex and a trike shouldnt be swimming peacefully cause a deino bite (strongest newton btw) tickles.... if it dealt 800/1000, then even swimming for a long time would be dangerous for rex and trike, not deadly most likely, but dangerous

BUT, doesnt really need it i guess... it will probably be dealt with when deino starts having more competition in its niche i think

[vale brook]

rex is one of the only animals that can fight deino in the water because its one of the only animals with water alt bites

"cant fight" and yet rex was given the tools specifically to fight in water

be serious

[native urchin]

does it directionals too? so u can alt behind? or just front

[vale brook]

that is what an alt attack is, yes

[native urchin]

they do be good swimmers, but they aint deino fast XD i wouldnt go swimming to fight a deino tbh... on shore where my legs touch ye, deep water, no, u cant even see the deino

[junior wagon]

i dont want deino to be able to fight on land, and it wont be able to with 800 bite force anyway

[thorn mountain]

it would

[junior wagon]

not really, if rex pins the prime deino which its able to fracture larger animals it will break the leg and body. Which means crocs will die cause they ont be able to alt bite.

[thorn mountain]

it wont to a adult rex, But to like everything else

[cerulean vault]

This right here, before the mutations and everything I traveled on land for food and got into fights on land stego was around and it was still a danger, its how i am so successful on Deino when everyone else Dies. But I don't think people understand that just because it says 550 newtons that is what you are doing there is weight behind it too so in reality you are doing a whole lot more i remember when deino had 1000k bite force at 8 tons it was stupid you rolled steggs man and at 13.5 tons bro that damage would be nuts. It already can face tank a full grow rex at 13.5 tons and 550. imagine 1000. Part of me just says make it realistic for every dino, Deinosuchus had greater bite force then Tyrannosaurus Rex

[thorn mountain]

literally, Why now do we need a biteforce increase, it was never the way to kill stuff but oh but realism

[cerulean vault]

I mean if they made everything more realistic the food chain would be allot different then it is now

[thorn mountain]

yea

1 tap everything sim

oh you are a stego you kill cama if you hit it in the head

[cerulean vault]

I do think The Rex Crush needs a cooldown or charges that have to regained by rest no animal bites 100% all the time most likely they would have delivered one big bite and let the animal bleed out if it survived. There was no brawling to the death

Like The Rex Crush should have one charge the amount of energy and strain on the jaw from one big bite is immense so i think 3 charges is very generous,

[cerulean vault]

yep i don't think we need more of that if people want Reality go fist fight a grizzly bear

I do think it should be close but because we are people controlling these creatures they need to be balanced for the sake of video game logic

I think people forget just how much smarter we are compared to animals We put a man on the moon and have machines we control on mars

So Rex Crush needs balancing as does other things currently but that is why they hordetest these things before letting them out to the ecosystem in Evrima

I do think Deino needs a small jump in bite force like for Prime around 750 is generous I would want it to have like 1200 be nice then drops to like 600 at full Elder 100%

But 13.5 tons and 1200 is kinda stupid

It can already drag a Prime elder underwater while they are swimming if they are 10.1 tons and under, and on land you have to be about 6.75 tons and up to avoid a land grab.

I would say be 6.8 if you are going to drink water from a known waterway that has Deinosuchus in it. The 4.1 ton safety net is gone

People want by nature and bias there Dino to be number 1. In reality something Dondi said a while back there is just somethings you cannot fight. turn around and walk away had too big sub rex's try my trike at 8 tons they were way smaller didnt have their thundering step so they were under 60% and I killed one with ease and the other almost died hid in a building part i couldn't fit in

The Utah tailriding rex days and that stupidity is over

I also think that when you entomb you shouldn't get all 4 mutations for the sake of balance. 2 I would say you can keep and after your second entombment you can start carrying more mutations over and finally at the 3rd you can carry all of them. You no longer increase the percentages but you can fill out the cap of the mutations slots via entombment heavier on the End side to promote seeking entombment x3 vs getting everything carried over at the first.

Assuming You hit Prime Elder every time

I also think Prime Elder is too easy to get, I think it should have heavier requirments 150% in diet and more then just one migrations and handful of patrols

I got Prime Elder Trike and that was stupid easy

[native urchin]

deino cannot face tank rex XD

[cerulean vault]

There is a video of a 13.5 ton deino against a full grown 75% rex and he face tanked

[native urchin]

rex is dumb and using normal bites? xD

litterally just has to crush, it does nearly 3k dmg

[cerulean vault]

This is why 1 charge then rest to refill it needs to happen

[native urchin]

i was 7 tons and i fought 2 fg deinos without a probelm

[cerulean vault]

there is so many more things you can do with rex and all people are doing is rex Crush

[cerulean vault]

That is my point

[native urchin]

i mean, not worth doing normal bite, its so slow and does basically nothing

[cerulean vault]

Go back and read the convo that is my point

[native urchin]

oh my bad

it has a cooldown technically

of a few seconds, but u can abuse the crush cancel to cancel the cooldown

[cerulean vault]

I main rex its my favorite animal I know how potent the irl rex is Goliath femur bone sets new standards for therapod dinos, this a game in which people control dinos the real things didnt have the intelligence to do even the quarter of the stuff we have them do

[cerulean vault]

That is why charges need to be put in

[native urchin]

i personally dont like the crush/pin animation

i would prefer having a charge bite that bone breaks

which would ahve a long cooldown

so, if u ambush well, the prey still dies

[cerulean vault]

I could see that opens its mouth wider has a different animation and it lunges its head and neck move

Open ambush punish then it comes down to bits rams and everything else

[native urchin]

but also, rex does need a big dmg attack, just like stego and trike have

[cerulean vault]

Yes but i think the abuse factor of those attacks need either balance or cooldowns via charges or resting

You get into a fight you probably have the energy human vs human for a couple of super heavy attacks then it comes down to skill and everything else

[native urchin]

sure!

[cerulean vault]

🫡

This wwas a excellent conversation love the idea of the open rex crush attack the only things that should be pinning is raptors and maybe allo the everything pinning crap needs to go

but again they need multiple Utah Raptor's and Allosaurus to pin in the first place

[native urchin]

I agree! Honestly Rex should just have a powerful attack, that insta bone breaks anything smaller, or after someone gets wounded, with a longer cooldown!

So u can still ambush, because a leg break means the prey dies

[cerulean vault]

That makes sense Because yes the irl rex has a max key word max bite force of 12400 and change but it wouldnt have been able to bit that hard 100% of the time

The ambush factor i like really causes you to think about your engagements. The Whole lets just walk around and roar and get fed by sitting next to a ai Dibble spawn also needs to go A.i should spawn in their appropiate areas and they shouldn't scream to let other players locate to find them carnivores are supposed to hunt and move. Maybe occasional noise etc rustling bushs foot prints and the like, a couple of calls but not the sit in a circle and rex gets fed with no effort

I just grew a Prime Elder Trike and it was the easiest grow i have ever done. System is good but prime Should be like a White Stag scenario or like spotting a phoenix flying through the air.

Elder system is good but needs more work

[sweet estuary]

#balance-feedback message HEY I SAID THIS I SAID INSTEAD OF LEG BREAK DO BODY BREAK SO STAM GOES DOWN QUICK SO ANIMALS CANT RUN FOR LONG THEN U TROT EM DOWN THEN ITS COOL AND AND IF U BODY BREAK SOMEONE MID FIGHT. THEY CAN STILL FIGHT!

[steep gazelle]

Rex doesn't need to cause any fractures

[sweet estuary]

it does if it wants to hunt dibbles and maias

since they can run after the pin is over

[thorn mountain]

yeah, but you can just pin them to death

[steep gazelle]

Dibble is slower than Rex now

34km

[thorn mountain]

and that

[sweet estuary]

no u cant can u?

i dont think u can, well if u can it shouldnt be like that

[thorn mountain]

last I checked you can

[sweet estuary]

maia aint

[steep gazelle]

Maia is a runner

[sweet estuary]

rex is a ambusher, wont matter

[steep gazelle]

Certain things you really shouldn't be able to kill xd

[sweet estuary]

i think u should. but

maia should have a chance

not a leg break thats way to boring

body break would mean maia runs away to forrest and regens stam, and it hears thumps from the path it was just on. the rex is sniffin round. thatd be scary and cool and better than leg break

[steep gazelle]

Unless reduce the crush damage from 3000 to less and leave the fracture

[sweet estuary]

and ALOT better than straight up 1 tap pin

[sweet estuary]

reduse to 2000k

[hasty coyote]

I’d be fine with Rex crush causing bone breaks only on pin, but the pin weight requirement also gets reduced to like half its weight.

[sweet estuary]

i can deal with it its just anoting to see a much better choise right infront of me yk

[steep gazelle]

Well, if it's just for ambush, set a limit so that the fracture only occurs in Dinos smaller than 3.9t, and set a chance of the fracture occurring

[hasty coyote]

The best choice imo is a fracture rebalance, since pachy also REALLY needs one to not flip between op and fodder. But they still haven’t changed it so I doubt they will.

[sweet estuary]

oh yeah also remove ambush speed. so op dont even needa be a ambush u jus needa be closer than 40 meters

see NOW rex needs to be smart to get a pin and when it does get a pin it needs to follow the trail to the animal resting

[tiny thicket]

That will only make players play big tiers than small tiers.

What do you prefer?
1.) Losing an 8 hour Rex to a 1 hr Troodon.
2.)Losing an 8 hour Troodon to a 1 hr Rex.

This game was supposed to be balanced.

This is balance feedback discussion just a reminder.

[slim dragon]

I'm not sure how rex dealing fractures or not to things above 3.9 tons matters to troodon

Because I highly doubt a troodon would survive a rex bite either way

[steep gazelle]

I prefer Rex not to cause any fractures, as his damage is already very high

[tiny thicket]

Fracture is an in game mechanic why not use it.

[slim dragon]

That's such a terrible argument
"Fracture is an in-game mechanic why not give it to ptera"