balance-feedback-discussion

[strong crypt]

Or yesterday was a group of 3ptera pecking a herrar xd so cool cinematic

[crystal wharf]

most regular dinosaurs
their headshot multiplier (as i understand it) is 1.5x, which on a 3000 damage per hit, double hit attack, is doing 9000 damage
for stego it does double, so its doing 12k

[golden coral]

But I get told "watch videos, you'll see you're wrong", but now you're saying my "suggestion" isn't currently accurate to the game. I am honestly not sure how I'm supposed to approach this at this point.

[viscid mica]

Indeed I found out that it’s a double tap the math be mathing for that one now

[strong crypt]

Steg aint doing 12k dmg

[amber wharf]

i made a new feedback

if we keep spamming pachy feedback they'll have to listen... right ???

[golden coral]

Maybe you should just trust me that I'm not. And simply accept that we see the approach of things very differently?

[crystal wharf]

it is trike
on stego

erik never really rage baits, i have a feeling it was a simple difference of opinion being blown out of the water here

erik has been here for a hot minute

[viscid mica]

Most rage bait “no keep it going” argument you asking too much from me

[strong crypt]

Ah okey well stego has debuff itself to head dmg for vs small er animal like raptor bleeding it it doesnt go over well with new trike tho

[steep gazelle]

You need to try it or at least watch videos about it. Troodon has the ability to do this, but it requires a lot of skill and also a lot of luck.

[golden coral]

That plus a very different approach to measuring time invested in the game. And it alll started because I didn't even argue, I simply felt that troodon being able to punch up to apex is excessive.

[viscid mica]

If 10 players spend 1 hour each growing troodon to hunt something is that 10 hours worth of effort or 1?

[crystal wharf]

new trike can 2 shot itself with the thrash combo
trikes thrash damage is absolutely overtuned

[strong crypt]

new trike ive already discussed this but its way to broken

[crystal wharf]

this is quite frankly, the stupidest thing to ever get into an argument over

hours invested doesnt matter and doesnt equate to anything

[steep gazelle]

Balanced like Cerato 🫠

[viscid mica]

It’s only part 1 of how ever many his entire argument is it shouldn’t be possible cuz I say so

[crystal wharf]

you see this
this is ragebait

[amber wharf]

ik trike is supposed to heavy hit but how is 2 shotting your own kind any fun, let's be so real.

[crystal wharf]

erik is not rage baiting

[amber wharf]

i know how the trikes got extinct in the first place, ladies and gents

[strong crypt]

funny thing with cerato is that dibble and tenon is actually stronger but alot of people dont think it

[viscid mica]

The thing being troodons hunting apex’s

[golden coral]

Okay, but can you understand that i simply think that kind of punch up is unnecessary, even if it takes a lot of skill and time and all. I simply do not see that troodon, or any playable ,need to punch up to that degree to be enjoyable. I don't see how it would not be enough fun for me as troodon, in a pack, to hunt a maia, or a diablo. I don't see the need to hunt larger things, to get the night time, venom hunter, feel of the playable. And that's all there is to it. I think that kind of punch up ability, is excessive. Troodon is just a good example of it to me. And if it can't do what I think it can in game, then I wish you or someone would have said that way back, you could have just gone "It can't hunt apexes at all, it's impossible" and I would have gone, "okay, that's kind of how I think it should be".

[viscid mica]

When every cera is in large groups I can see how people would feel that

[steep gazelle]

Tenonto is no longer stronger than Cerato

[amber wharf]

this.

[strong crypt]

when cerato had the bile almost always, all i saw people complain about was cerato even tho all midsize herbs where way stronger

[golden coral]

... I don't know, I think both parties here "keep it going" you know. But you should trust me then, and I've done my best to try and explain the time thing, I don't know how else to approach that.

[crystal wharf]

tenonto does still absolutely faceroll cerato in a 1v1

[golden coral]

@crystal wharfMaybe I should just have you around whenever this happens, so you can translate for me!

[amber wharf]

we can all agree on one thing. pachy needs buff and dryo also needs buff because man do i never see them anymore (when i do they immediately get folded)

[crystal wharf]

the stability buffs for the charge bite do not help cerato all that much against teno

[cosmic pelican]

#balance-feedback-discussion message 💔 "it outheals you indefinetly"

[strong crypt]

yes and when u say well but 4 ceratos win vs 1 tenon that is the most stupid argument ever xD

u didnt say but ive seen people use that argument

[golden coral]

Right, so noted then. But does stego do that too?

[crystal wharf]

maybe, but i think it might be more constructive to just agree to disagree when you get to a large enough impass

[golden coral]

Dryo needs more dodge charges, please and thank you.

Let me be a bouncy dryo!

[cosmic pelican]

Stego catches you mid dismount and you die instantly unless its literally afk

[amber wharf]

dryo needs something. where are its burrows ??? even legacy had burrows for dryos smh.

[steep gazelle]

After the last update, Cerato still managed to reach maximum damage in 2s, but now the stam cost and speed reduction only occurs after 6s. Near a body (Even if it is not heavy) Cerato is now immune to Carno's charge and Tenonto's stun

[viscid mica]

I mean I stopped cuz it’s redundant

I just find your entire point silly and the way you completely ignore any angle we attempt to use because your right and we are wrong and there is no in between thus I concede what ever you think boss man well let the mass downvotes speak for themselves

[amber wharf]

I thought this too, so now Teno is basically cerato chow, correct?? (if they cant run away)

[steep gazelle]

Yes

[crystal wharf]

buffing dryo would not make it a more desirable animal to play
you can make it run at 90 kph for an hour and have 3 tons of health, and it will still be ball bustingly boring

[amber wharf]

good to know u_u

[golden coral]

So, basically, troodon can't punch up, is what you're saying then. So troodon sucks currently then, it's a terrible playable?

[steep gazelle]

Devs love Cerato and are making it very obvious

[crystal wharf]

have you considered not fighting ceratos on a body?

[amber wharf]

i'd love to play dryo. i know its not a dino for everyone but i love to be hunted as a herbivore and just nest/chill! :)

[golden coral]

Maybe, I just personally dislike that approach. It feels kind of pointless.

[strong crypt]

(carno main here) carno didnt win before that nerf towards cerato either and it wasnt easier either even when carno had tap stun it didnt win vs cerato but atleast it had a chance if they were worse than you. but problem here is not cera being op its carno being bad

[golden coral]

I do not ignore anything, any more than you ignore my points and angles. And it's not even a matter of being right or wrong, it's an opinion. Also what downvotes?

[steep gazelle]

Dude, you can't fight Cerato anymore if they're next to a tiny trike body xd

[crystal wharf]

mfers when the developers change a problematic animal rather then just caving its skull in with a sledge hammer and calling it a day:

[amber wharf]

tbh yeah carno is bad too shoot man U_U

[crystal wharf]

move
away
from
the
body

[regal valve]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/1022576531198967879/1590381E-9D3B-4CB4-BA91-6BEE0852DE0E.gif

[steep gazelle]

I'm talking about Carno

[viscid mica]

What points and angles

You didn’t have any

Actually never mind what ever

[strong crypt]

yeah But problem isnt cerato is strong its carno is bad

[crystal wharf]

great
same argument applies

[amber wharf]

bro, waht.

[crystal wharf]

if you see a cerato on a body
move said cerato away from the body

thats the entire point

[amber wharf]

nu uh. tail slam to the face. 🥰

[steep gazelle]

A cerato with 2 IQ will not leave the body

[strong crypt]

then leave the cerato maybe

[crystal wharf]

great, then leave the cerato

this isnt a pvp game, you arent honor bound to fight every cerato that crosses your path

[cosmic pelican]

It can, but hunting apexes like stego is generally out of the question 99% of the time, which doesnt make it a bad playable.

[amber wharf]

after everything they've done, we must.

[crystal wharf]

you win by surviving

[steep gazelle]

This is a pvp game, as there is nothing Pve to do

[crystal wharf]

this mindset is the exact reason why ceratos survive so easily, because people just feed themselves to ceratos

[amber wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/i-kinda-have-to-i-have-to-responsibility-i-need-to-i-have-to-do-it-gif-16044933

[golden coral]

I... literally did though? I explained the time thing. I explained that troodon doesn't need to punch up that far, that it doesn't actually make it better or more fun, that there's no, from what I can tell, concept showing that. It's the teno, carno, that it shows hunting. And I said dibble and maia are still large prey to a troodon, and targets for full packs. Only to be told "no it shouldnt require a full pack" and "it wouldnt be fun if it cant punch up that far" or "it must because its the niche" and similar points. The same kind of points and angles you accuse me of providing.

[amber wharf]

bro I always get tactile. they never catching me, smh.

[strong crypt]

the thing is the leave argument is so boring but i think its okay in this case since the cerato almost never have bodies when u fight it cus its always looking for food

[crystal wharf]

walk away then
fight something else that isnt a cerato on a body

[strong crypt]

xD

[amber wharf]

BRO GOT THE RECEIPTS.

[crystal wharf]

those are community tags are they not?

[steep gazelle]

Sure, instead of solving the problem why not just make excuses? Well, I don't expect much from a Cerato fan

[amber wharf]

wait why does it say mmo LOL

[strong crypt]

Finally proof its PVP

[viscid mica]

Go play troodon see how far you can punch up come back to me on that

I’m not gonna argue it’s completely redundant at this point nothing I say will matter to you anyways I’ll await your experience

[golden coral]

Okay, because others argued it would be terrible, unfun, and just suck if it couldn't do that. But you never, so fair enough. Still, the fact that it can is what I take issue with, or perhaps rather, how it does it. All I'd really want is more pounces required for every stage, depending on size. That would still allow for it, but with so much effort that it should clearly be a "don't bother". Not a "hey, let's see if we can do it", because I think troodon doing that is excessive, and it doesn't need that to be a fun, viable playable.

[amber wharf]

literally. any cerato in existance if they can, are going to be on a body. 😭

[strong crypt]

also the reason troodon is so strong is obiviously due to Dsync if Dsync wasnt game theyd have to nerf it

[golden coral]

And if I find a pack, successfully kill a trike, and then come back and tell you "I think this is silly, we shouldn't be able to do this", you will agree with me?

[strong crypt]

but almost always u will die due to something not hitting you

[crystal wharf]

this is the only argument i should need to give you
cerato is not immune to your tail slams and charges if it isnt hugging a corpse, so dont fight a cerato hugging a corpse, this is the simplest thing to understand and you are failing to do so

[amber wharf]

you aren't killing a trike, blud.

[viscid mica]

Unlikely as if you find enough skilled players and the time required to kill a trike and still think that I’d be impressed

[strong crypt]

i saw a video that showed that cerato is supposed to be immune to tail slam whilst charging

[viscid mica]

Kek

[viscid mica]

Twas for a time

[amber wharf]

it was but idk if it was patched this most recent patch. 😭 i think it is while around a body.

[golden coral]

Maybe, maybe not. If it actually isn't doable, and you can't kill a stego either, assuming both of them know what they're doing, as well as the troodon pack knowing what they're doing, then honestly, there's no issue. Then it would seem that my opinion on how it should be, is how it actually is. Maybe that's why everyone's so "angry" with me.

[cosmic pelican]

I feel like I'd have to parrot what Wavepoole said in this case, which I'm sure you still rememner so I wont. It'd just feel really unsatisfying and unnecessary dev effort to prevent something that doesnt exist.

[crystal wharf]

but instead, muen is just going to cry out "BUT YUOR A CERATO MAIN, AND YOUR BIASED, AND IM RIGHT" and act like it is doing anything but besides making him seem like a petulant child.

[steep gazelle]

I said I didn't expect much anyway. Why did I think you would actually understand how bad this is for Cerato and Carno? Xd

[viscid mica]

No it’s completely do able

No one said it was easy thou

[amber wharf]

yea like said before, troodon pack aint killing a trike unless they got like 20 troodons with endless stam or itll take around an hour. at that rate theyll just starve the trike out, lol.

[viscid mica]

Maybe it’s easy with 10 super skilled insanely well coordinated gamers

[crystal wharf]

i will agree that the stability and move speed debuffs should apply immedietly, but calling everybody who disagrees with your idea of sledgehammer balancing a cerato main and biased goes nowhere

[golden coral]

Tell that to Chomp here I guess.

[amber wharf]

then the desync kills you 💀

[crystal wharf]

you want to scream into a canyon to hear your own echo agreeing with you

[steep gazelle]

Cerato has nothing to fear now and can move around the map without the slightest worry. Carno was the only one who could deal with a group of 4 Ceratos, even with the difficulty and advantages of Ceratos

[viscid mica]

When was the last time you played the game let alone troodon?

[golden coral]

I.... as you all know, I've not played for a while, you keep pointing that out as an issue. So I can only go by what people show and say. And now I got told two very opposite things. This is going great for me.

[golden coral]

Long time ago. But was I the one saying you can't kill trikes? No, I got told that by someone else here now.

[amber wharf]

ngl bro you can't be making opinions based on what you've heard. 😭

[viscid mica]

No I didn’t point it at all cuz I didn’t know

[golden coral]

So who should I trust then

[cosmic pelican]

Youd have to engage the trike faaaar away from any obstacles to even have a chance. And even then it will still take up to 200 pounces or more.

[amber wharf]

play the game or don't speak outta ur booty

[viscid mica]

He said you specifically as in he was calling you bad lol

[cosmic pelican]

If someone ever manages to do it, it will be with a really bad trike

[amber wharf]

oh.. yea... troodon gets knocked off like omni, huh? 😭

[strong crypt]

im a little bit lost in the sauce but i think if ur a herb attacking cerato on body u should be destroyed because its kinda a herbi dusche movce

[golden coral]

Right, but I can't do that. And thus, I have to rely on what people tell me and show me. And what is doable based on the stats I know and how the mechanics works and all that.

[golden coral]

Ah... well, he doesn't know anything about how good or bad I used to be, so that helps me little xD

[viscid mica]

I’d say you’d need at least 8 good troodon to do it in roughly 2 hours or less after all fging

[cosmic pelican]

Yep, gets stunned for like 3 seconds too. Dare I mention the trike using water in which it can stand, but troodon has to swim.

[amber wharf]

Then you're always going to get backlash usually, tbh. Lots of people on this game have drastically diff opinions (clearly LOL)

[amber wharf]

man i hate thATTTTTT IM A LIL TROODON IM ALITTLE GUY CMONNNN

[cosmic pelican]

Especially annoying in sanctuaries, terrain everywhere

[golden coral]

Quite. And it really just started with me having the opinion that troodon killing apexes is excessive. I didn't even say if it could do it or not much, or if it currently can in game. Just that it having the ability to punch that far up is excessive, as far as I'm concerned. And now here we are.

[viscid mica]

Kek

Eh man I wish you luck

Maybe the reason I can’t fathom is from experience as a sweaty troodon

Simply put while theoretically possible to punch way up the effort time and skill required is no small feat

[amber wharf]

you cant fight 2 hours continously on troodon without starving.

[strong crypt]

well you talk about how good troodons have to be but never about the trike i mean if trike is good its no shot

[amber wharf]

like i just said, if it takes 2 hours to kill a trike with 8 good troodons, the trike AND troodons are starving so it's not viable at all lol

[viscid mica]

No no you can with 8

1 or 2 goes off to find food and brings bite back during switch outs for stam and what not

[strong crypt]

i dont have a problem with 10 skilled coardinated people killing 1 unskilled noob trike

[viscid mica]

A lot of resource management will go into that hunt

[amber wharf]

you are saying that like food is everywhere, bro. 😭

[viscid mica]

Troodons are fast they can go ways away

[cosmic pelican]

The trike doesnt even have to be good tbh, just back yourself into a corner and your ~100hp/10 seconds healing will do the rest

[amber wharf]

literally this. 😭

[steep gazelle]

Devs: Cerato has been Op for 2 years, what to do? Let's buff him even more. Troodon and Omni are getting up quickly when knocked down due to their agility? Neeerf!!!!! 😂😂

[golden coral]

I don't think so, I honestly think it's just a matter of me talking from a general balance philosphy/design on how I think playables should do, and you're arguing from current ingame experience. And the same applies to the time thing. I hope you do understand how I see that, even if we clearly do not agree on how to count time.

And yeah, if I do get a new pc, I'll give it a try. I will say, while I've seen a lot of complaints on juvie troodon speed, I personally felt it was too fast before. I kept running into every, single, sanctuary root. With that said, apparently the new speed is too slow.

[strong crypt]

exactly so this whole argument of troodon punching up is based on probably the worst trike player to exsist lol

but im a pvp enthusiast

[amber wharf]

the choices the devs make sometimes is mind boggling. i feel like some play the game and others don't, having their opinions based off the 2 devs that actually play. 😭

[viscid mica]

Tbh I don’t think balancing off of concept vs practiced experience will give good results but that’s just me

I make it a point to FG everything a minimum of once (trike grow got me pressed rn ngl)

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1114609263290101832/1385916959891394623/3584A51.MP4?ex=6861b280&is=68606100&hm=6c75c2377280761ccadb2258714231899fc82c38ff69cedf399d2eb8f1e08719& or whatever this is happens

[strong crypt]

I think for every herb in the game its more funn if you get to be attacked instead of being like in trikes current state where u just afk grow with no enemies

[amber wharf]

yeah latching onto the front getting you killed (or was it right after you hopped off?) is crazy work.

[viscid mica]

Average troodon gameplay

[steep gazelle]

I have the impression that a certain very special Dev who makes the final decision doesn't even play the game itself

[strong crypt]

lets diuscuss the trike hitbox which they keep doing the hit 100% behind u hitboxses

[amber wharf]

they are going to get you muen SHHHH 😭 😂

[cosmic pelican]

The thrash killed me while I was on its side as I tried to jump off

[steep gazelle]

Nooooo 😭😭😭😭

[amber wharf]

oh yeah, heard tons of complaints about th OOE for thrash.

[viscid mica]

I always wait a solid sec before jumping off just to be safe

[strong crypt]

also trike is meant for 1v1 not 10v1 thats supposed to be its PVP weakness

[viscid mica]

Indeed

[cosmic pelican]

I learned that the hard way 💔

[steep gazelle]

It was nice meeting you guys... 😔

[strong crypt]

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExeW8zcjM5MW04OWN6a3N5eGxpaHh5N29ueTRmeXh2YXh4ZTc3aDFoNSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/rajCos3LpXgNlDYgfH/giphy-downsized-large.gif

a little Dsyncyhy gif for you

[viscid mica]

Troodon gaming

[amber wharf]

me anytime playing troodon OR omni i swear. the desync always gets me.. :/

[cosmic pelican]

Honestly its half the fun

[viscid mica]

I swear my life quote for the isle is “I learn that the hard way”

[amber wharf]

dying to desync is incredibly discouraging 😭 (even if troodon is just an hour grow or smthng)

[cosmic pelican]

Youre back to nearly fg in 20 mins anyways with a couple organs

[golden coral]

No that's fair, and I wouldn't do that for the actual ingame stats and all. That'd require lots of testing. But, I don't know, maybe if put it this way. "Omni should not be faster than galli." That's an example, but it works as an opinion on how certain playables should interact. All my comment with troodon was, was the same. "Troodon should not punch up to apex." It is personal opinion, as well, everything in this game is, obviously. The game is the way it is because the devs feel that "this is good", for one reason or another.

[strong crypt]

well thats a valid argument for why these things are alot stronger than they have to be simply because of lag things. you will die 100% of the time due to Dsync

[amber wharf]

i guess that kinda 'balances' it out but i'd rather them be weaker than me dying to some stupid latency issue. 😭

[strong crypt]

Yes everyone would agree!!!

[steep gazelle]

If the troodon is good and you are bad, you are right

[strong crypt]

well the lagg and the punching up balances out eachother

[viscid mica]

Ye ye

Tbh now that I’ve cooled off and stopped thinking about it on paper if you haven’t played it recently Troodon looks insanely strong especially in numbers when you remove the human factor

Once you account for desync and player skill thou it becomes far less menacing

[strong crypt]

but i would much rather have less strong troodon and no lagg

[amber wharf]

Also right now, you rarely see troodon packs due to the juvie speed making it agonizingly slow. 😭

[viscid mica]

Welcome to any close quarter primary combat game

[golden coral]

Oh yes, though desync and bugs are not something I would account for, cause well, not intended, or so I should hope. And well, if troodon isn't that strong, then it isn't. I don't know, I never meant to claim I did. I apologize if you and the others took my opinion as more than it was meant to be.

[viscid mica]

I just run solo troo cuz it’s fun to be super sweaty and watch some cera main lose their mind in na gen chat

[steep gazelle]

Southplains beach is full of turtles and crabs, northridge beach is too

[amber wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/sidious-gif-18100940

[strong crypt]

games like league of legends deal greatly with ping where the lagg is on your end instead of the other players end like in the isle (hates league of legends)

[amber wharf]

admins!! he said locations get him !!!!

[viscid mica]

I hadn’t realized you haven’t played in awhile so I thought you were genuinely just cooked

[steep gazelle]

Traitor!

[viscid mica]

I think I’ve only ever crashed out in na gen once

[amber wharf]

😈 mheheennene

[cosmic pelican]

Never happening sadly, either the speed/turn rates of everything in the game would need to be toned down drastically, or severe ping locks would need to be put on servers... neither are ideal :/

[amber wharf]

💀

[viscid mica]

And that’s cuz I thought some dibbles were mixpacking with cera group

[golden coral]

No worries. But yeah, wasn't meant as a statement on current troodon in game, just an opinion on punch up power for playables, using troodon as an example. But I guess it came across worse than intended.

[strong crypt]

im not that all knowing about servers but it is a server thing not a speed thing. it is a server thing tho not the actual game they would need like real servers

[golden coral]

Though if you want another opinion, that I've had since the beginning. Troodons current venom mechanic is stupid. For a horde playable that, I think, should just rely on overwhelming targets, having to do this weird orderly venom dance is not fitting at all.

Let's see how well this goes over :D

[viscid mica]

I took it completely wrong my bad G

I thought you were like “this must be now!”

Also I still think your cooked for not thinking 10 people spending 1 hour each isn’t 10 hours worth of effort you wrong for that 100%

[golden coral]

Hah, I don't think we'll see eye to eye on the time, I feel similar in return I'm afraid. And trust me, I've debated with myself on that one before, your money example is not new, I've used it on myself.

[strong crypt]

some games use server-side prediction and netcode that can make high ping players appear to have an advantage due to how the server handles latency compensation

ive heard people say thats its intended so that high ping players are not punished but idk about that tho

[viscid mica]

Well like yesterday I watched two dibbles take in a 7 man cera group and wipe out 6 of em

I genuinely was like to my buddy

“Dam they just cost that group roughly 12 hours of time”

I believe when hunting in groups the collective time should be accounted for

[golden coral]

I get how you look at it, I've gone back and forth on it too. But I hope my sleep example was good enough to explain how I see it. And it could be taken into account, but perhaps not 1:1. We could always try to compromise on it after all.

[steep gazelle]

You guys have been discussing this for almost 3 hours

[strong crypt]

and there are other scenarios where i was able to 1v2 2 trikes took me 20 min but it wasnt because cerato was op just because they were bad

[viscid mica]

It’s my day off leave me alone

[golden coral]

Hey, it's nice to talk, and now we seem to not be as much at each others throat, so why not have a conversation.

Though if we end up friends after this, it will be hilarious to no end xD

[strong crypt]

but new trike 4kdmg thing is stupid

[golden coral]

Depends on how they want the interaction with other apexes to go I think

I can get the worry that trike might kill rex too easily or quickly, depending on how the stats end up. But if they might want trike to possibly handle two rexes, it could make more sense.

[viscid mica]

I think of it for the game like this

Imagine groups weren’t individual players but 1 person controlling a Ai team but they had to FG everything Dino in that group

So a group of 7 ceras 2 hours a piece would be a 14 hour grow worth of that persons time

All your doing is acknowledging that it’s multiple people but the time value of the group is still the same

[golden coral]

Yeah, I get how you mean. Though curious on that AI team, do you mean the player would grow them one at a time, or at the same time?

[strong crypt]

i absolutly think trike will kill rex and it wont even be a skilled matchup and im worried about that but we will have to see

[viscid mica]

One at a time in this context

[strong crypt]

btw to fix server issues they would need centralized server-client model and dysync prob would be gone kapuuf!

[viscid mica]

I think so long as the time value of the team is roughly equal them being able to challenge something bigger of that rough time frame without needing to be giga sweats is fair

[strong crypt]

like we cant be 100% realistic like if no smaller is able to beat something bigger then the pvp experience would be non exsistent almost

[viscid mica]

Stego unironically 1 tapping cuz of infections Kek

[strong crypt]

it would be really boring it would be like ah i got grabbed by dein thats 3 hours ah well atleast it was cool that it grabbed me!.
or ah i got 1 shot by dibble perma stun because i didnt see it hiding in a bush ah well atleast its accurate that this bigger thing kills me!!.

stego is not funn TBH in this range of dinosaurs it is to big and now trike is aswell

[viscid mica]

Ong

[golden coral]

Okay, then yes. That'd be 14 hours of growth, if you grew one, then another, then another. You'd have to sit there for all of that time. But that'd be 14 actual hours of your life. 14 hours you can't do anything but play the Isle for. And that's where the difference lies. And that's why I can not agree with it being a good factor for group balancing, or making it fair. But we're never going to see eye to eye on this. I will always look at the actual hours of your day that you used to play, not the "collective". Especially not since the time "stacks", so it's not even one person growing one cera, then letting the next person play. (such as the pc would be used for 14 hours, just by different people at a time) It's all of them at the same time on their own pc, being used for 2 hours. Which means they've all lost much less time of their lives when they die, and anything else involved, like, I don't know, energy for the pc if we're to apply something.

At least stegos should be less bored now, when they have to flee from trikes and rexes

[viscid mica]

K but the time is still equal?

[strong crypt]

yep and they will have more funn trust me

[golden coral]

In a sense, yes, in another sense, no. Which is why it's such a strange situation. Cause obviously you spend 2 hours of your day growing one cera. I spent 14 growing the entire pack.

[strong crypt]

thats why the trike 4kdmg was BS cus it was already the strongest in the game to be fair

[golden coral]

Maybe

[viscid mica]

But if it’s 7 people spending 2 hours it’s still 14 hours

[strong crypt]

i mean you do see over agressive herbs everywhere. when i play herb i get so bored i just wanna kill something and i feel like theyd feel the same on these really long growth time dinos

maybe a small 10% of player just want movie star planet like never fight just chat dino game but yeah

i think thats a small percentage

[golden coral]

Kind of, but not really.

[viscid mica]

But but wha

[strong crypt]

well erik u can have 7 people growing 1 trike for 2 hours each and it would be exactly the same time

this is why people devide up work

[viscid mica]

^^^^^^^^^

That’s actually such a good example

[golden coral]

Aw, don't cry.

[strong crypt]

it would take 14 hours of computer being but it would be less annoying for 7 people becuase they are deviding the work force

[viscid mica]

Erik acknowledge his point or the beipi gets it

[golden coral]

Yes, I know. But I count the individual, actual time investment that you lose out of your day, as a factor.

[golden coral]

Leave the beipi alone! And I did acknowledge that way back

[strong crypt]

its harder for 1 person to sit still for 14 hours than 7 persons to sitt still for 2 hours each

[viscid mica]

Safe

I get that

It the time value is still the same

[golden coral]

You can also have five people sleeping for three hours each, at the same time. Did you get 15 hours of rest from that?

[strong crypt]

sleeping isnt something u can use in this argument tho

[golden coral]

But applied time value to persons life is not

[golden coral]

Of course it is, because my entire point is that I look at the persons actual usage of time.

[viscid mica]

But applied in game it is

[strong crypt]

no it is not becuse you need certain amount of sleep to function but u dont need to play this game to function

[golden coral]

If I grow for 5 hours, you grow for one. I die, I lose 5 hours of my day. You and ten more of your pack dies, you lose 1 hour of your day.

[golden coral]

Right, and we disagree on what to apply and how.

[strong crypt]

so you spending 14 hours does not affect your wellfare if u take brakes inbeteweeen

[golden coral]

Okay, so take any other action then, if you didn't like that example.

@strong cryptSo if I sit here and play for three hours. You sit next to me and also play. Did we, after three hours, play for six hours, because we're two?

[strong crypt]

well you have invested 6 hours in total

[golden coral]

See that's the entire "conflict". I apply actual usage of your day. You apply the "total time".

[strong crypt]

which is diffrent from 1 person sitting 6 hours

[viscid mica]

Ya atleast I tried

[golden coral]

Yes, but I don't look at the investment, I look at the actual usage of time. That's the thing. I look at your personal investment, not "stacking" it as a group investment.

[golden coral]

Hey, so did I. I don't think it's a bad thing we disagree you know, we understand how the other person think. We just value it differently. Is that bad?

[viscid mica]

Not at all XD

[strong crypt]

well if you only look at time used if i get you correctly then 6 hours is 6 hours no matter how many players play it

[viscid mica]

I’m happy this discussion ended on very amicable terms

[golden coral]

Yes. And one hour is one hour, even if you and ten other people do so, especially if you're doing it at the same time.

I see both the total time invested, and the time personally invested, and I simply value the personal time for the individual over the collective time.

[golden coral]

So am I, this is a lot more pleasant than before!

[strong crypt]

but i mean if you look at it like work people think its really hard working 12 hour shift but it isnt hard working 12 hour shift if 2 people do it

[golden coral]

I know. But that doesn't really change how I think it should be applied as a balance factor in the game.

[viscid mica]

I mean tbf I was missing the info that you weren’t working off paper info not in game which is why I was so dumb founded

Which is my bad I just assumed

[strong crypt]

im sorry maybe im mistake what is your base opinion on this? regarding time?

[golden coral]

It's not like I've not looked at this back and forth, his earlier example is nothing new. I simply concluded that a persons actual invested time is more important to take into account than the collective time used.

[golden coral]

Simply that I do not agree with using collective invested time as a "three omnis grow for one hour each, this is equal to one three hour dibble". Because all the three omnis only grew for one hour, out of the total gaming time alloted per day.

[strong crypt]

well yes its devided work force and therefore much more annoying for the dibble to grow

[golden coral]

Meaning that when the omni dies, that player, lost one hour total. Not three hours, because the other two also grew an omni during the same session. And that therefor, using that as an "equal" doesn't work very well, because it doesn't apply in both ways.

[strong crypt]

but for you as a individuel just like work when you work 12 hour shift you are compensated way more

[golden coral]

Yes, and I just don't think it's a good way to do it, cause the actual investment and loss for one person is much smaller. Maybe if I try it this way.

[strong crypt]

yes but you also get alot less

[golden coral]

You and your friends work, you earn 10 each, you get 100 in total. The other guy works on his own, and gets 100 for himself. All of the people involved gets robbed. Would you feel as bad, losing your 10, for one hour of work, as the guy losing 100 for all his work?

You don't... "stack" the others "grief", you'll all be miffed you lost your money, but all of you only lost an hour and 10 bucks. While one lost 10 hours and 100 bucks

[strong crypt]

no but you would also invest 1 tenth of the time

so therefore you would not feel as bad

[golden coral]

Yes, and it's that investment I count only. Not the total, because the total isn't actually yours.

[strong crypt]

yes it is not

[golden coral]

Hence, the "conflict" because I value the individual, whereas they value the collective

[strong crypt]

but three omni vs dibble i mean same skill level probably all 3 omnis will die

[golden coral]

Maybe, but that's not really the point here

[strong crypt]

ah okey

[golden coral]

It's not an actual matchup point in game, it's the time investment and how to count it that's the "argument"

[strong crypt]

well that is really complicated because its individual aswell

¨some people would be mad some people wouldnt

you can take 1 person earning 10 getting more mad then the 100 guy because of the way he was raised

[golden coral]

Yes, that is pretty much it. On the one hand, there is the collective investment, division of labour and all that. On the other, there's the actual time out of your total lifetime that is only for you.

[strong crypt]

how do you think they should balance it?

[golden coral]

And which one to value and how, is the question, I suppose.

I would use time for 1v1 matchups, and base group on other factors, with time invested there being either not a factor, or just a very small factor. But that's just me.

Especially since there's plenty of other factors to take into account for balance outside of time anyway

And of course, purely the design and decisions, if it comes down to that

[strong crypt]

im sorry i dont get this part?

[golden coral]

Basically, time invested works in 1v1, due to it being two players, both individually having grown their playable. It works less in groups, due to aforementioned reasons. Which is why for groups I would look at other things. But for a 1v1, you can look at how long it took to grow the respective playable, so there time could matter. Though I would probably balance based on other factors, and then decide growth time on what I think would fit for the playable, no matter the matchups perhaps. Such as "how common do I want them to be" and "how enjoyable is it to grow" (juvie gameplay) and so on. Not just full adult matchups.

[strong crypt]

well it isnt balanced after time for groups now i think, for example 3 raptors is longer growth time than 1 dibble and the dibble is stronger

[viscid mica]

WELLLLL

in general your right yes omnis would lose that

[strong crypt]

remember extreem scenarios right

[viscid mica]

Thou a decent group that atleast doesn’t pin eachother could win that

[golden coral]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I don't know. I don't claim to argue how it currently is in the game or not, hopefully people don't think I am this time around.

[strong crypt]

yes but then ur pitting good players vs bad players they have to be of equal skill ziowar

[viscid mica]

I won’t at least as we’ve clearly established you haven’t played in awhile again my bad G

[strong crypt]

also dinosaurs in this are specialized aswell for exmaple idc how many carnos u have u are not beating a rex xD

[golden coral]

No worries. Also that wasn't to you specifically, just a general observation on how it went last time. And you were hardly the only one involved either so.

[strong crypt]

and like a hypsie even if ud have like a 100 would probably struggle vs trike

so wanting to balance this based on math equations is merely impossible you kinda have to feel your way forth with pvp servers and stuff

[golden coral]

Well, currently it might be like that for stego vs trike. Now I don't know the growth times, average or best, but last I heard it's something like 4-5 hours for good diet stego, and maybe... 10-12 hours for good diet trike. But current trike can pretty much take on three stegos, kill at least one, possibly two, before eventually dying.

Though not sure on the numbers at all, so, take it with a grain of salt

[strong crypt]

yes well therefore my point as always is that this Trike 4kdmg buff is just stupid

[golden coral]

Eh, stego can just run, so it's fine. Trike vs rex remains to be seen so.

[strong crypt]

its obiviously unbalanced and u dont need math to see it xD

well rex will be faster then trike so rex can just run is really that how we want the balancing to be? if you can run you should lose 100% of the time

because currently thats the way the Trike is and thats why i think its obiviously unbalanced

or atleast leaning alot towards its not 100% lose (for example Trike keyboard could disconnect xD)

[golden coral]

Well, in a sense, yes. If you can't fight it, you can run. If you can't run, you can fight it. Some exceptions like using a burrow or similar would exist too, but overall, that's kind of how they tend to do it.

And maybe stego will get a stam or speed buff or something if it really can't escape rex. Trike should be fine on the other hand.

[strong crypt]

well im saying that is a way to make the PVP experience part of the game really unfunn. i think it should be favoured towards the one with less movement not one sided

the argument you can just leave is the worst that exsist in most cases because then nothing should ever kill trike because everything could just leave. i feel like a 55-45 blancing for the slow one is better than now where trike vs stego is like 80-20

but stego and trike is not same weight class i know so bad example

[golden coral]

Well, it's survival, not PvP so

The sentiment is just that you need to survive, and be viable, not that you need to fight and win

Would I prefer stego being apex power and able to contend with trike, yes. Does it need it, no.

And yes, people don't like the "just leave it", but it is a valid point

Current stego vs trike 1v1 is not even that, it's 100 to trike, simple as.

[strong crypt]

Yes but PVP is one of the biggest parts of the survival aspect

[golden coral]

Unless the trike is, I don't know, on the verge of death and afk maybe xD

[golden coral]

It is, but the devs do not think it's a bad thing to just avoid others

Or at least it does not seem like they think otherwise

[strong crypt]

i mean you can play a carnivore and just eat AI and never fight and just survive see how funn that would be

[golden coral]

It wouldn't be, but that's a carni, it's meant to hunt

This, if we're talking stego vs trike, is a herbi interaction, and while they could and maybe should fight over plants, well, not in this case

[strong crypt]

well yes trike vs stego is not good example but only one we have

of big animals fighting ii think

[golden coral]

I guess stego will maybe treat para in this way, if para ends up around stego size

[strong crypt]

remember ther are weight class aswell in the game, but for example a Carno not being able to hunt tenon at all 1v1 scenario because it can just avoid it is really bad i mean yeah it should be favoured towards a tenon but RN its almost impossible for carno. taking that skill is of equal value

and again given skilll values are the same i would say maybe carno has 20% chance of winning if even that

but the way carno skill i think goes like this. Bad vs Bad carno is good. OKplayer VS OKplayer carno is Bad . Good vs Good Carno is aboslutly horrible

[golden coral]

Well, that'd be because carno is meant to hunt things smaller than itself, not larger than itself

[strong crypt]

it's not definitively proven that Carnotaurus specifically hunted Tenontosaurus, it's possible they did, and it's likely they preyed on similar-sized herbivores. Carnotaurus was a carnivorous dinosaur that likely hunted smaller, faster-moving prey, and Tenontosaurus, a large ornithopod, would have been within the size range of what it might have targeted

And the thing is if im compleatly honest the way herbs are supposed to be played i think they should be on par with carnivores faster than them not stroonger because they are supposed to herd and they almost always do aswell (this is personal opinion tho)

you feel me!

[strong crypt]

this isnt about carno or tenon tho this is more about balancing around movement speed

oh also side note Carno is suppossed to be bigger than tenon just they made it smaller for some reason

[fluid scarab]

“Supposed to”?

[strong crypt]

yes it isnt in the isle

acroding to palentologic studies i guess

[strong crypt]

you feel me

[fluid scarab]

Not really never heard them mentioning the game supposed to be realistic

[strong crypt]

sure make trike 1 ton then

[eager saddle]

semi-realistic.

[strong crypt]

exactly

[eager saddle]

that means they can take liberties in aspects tho

and they just chose to do that here

which is completely valid

[strong crypt]

and i dont think they should do it there cause it fluctruates to much from reaility

and it didnt used to be when it was 1.8t

[fluid scarab]

Still nowhere it says semi-realistic either

[strong crypt]

okay buddeh

[eager saddle]

they wanna keep some parts realistic tho. They are not about to change things too drastically

[strong crypt]

i wont argue with this

[eager saddle]

like raptor was a pack animal. They could have changed that to make him a solo hunter

[strong crypt]

luke opinon

note to self tho OMNIRAPTOR is compleatly fictional made with intent of being like Jurassic raptor styled

[fluid scarab]

Just want to point out giving feedback about things that haven’t been stated or designated as goal may not be received by them because they don’t care about it 🙂

[eager saddle]

define received?

as in considered?

[fluid scarab]

Sure

[eager saddle]

aight

just wasn't sure

is a cute nautilus pfp btw. The fish fit :3

[mint star]

objectively false

[fluid scarab]

“May not be considered” how can you confirm if this is true?

[strong crypt]

i feel like chaning animals that are suposed to be bigger than animals to smaller is a big nono in semi realistic simulation like games

[fluid scarab]

It may or may not be how they approach feedback

[strong crypt]

okay and what u want me to do with that information?

[fluid scarab]

?

You can do whatever you like

[strong crypt]

well luke i have a hard time underrstanding what ur getting at here?

[vale brook]

herrerasaurus climbs

every "fun" mechanic we have in game is directly contributed to them going away from realism

and even then, balance will take priority over realism

these animals did not live together, they were not designed by evolution to deal with each other. we have to come in and alter them to fit the artifical enviorment we're creating

[mint star]

no, im talking about the "dont care about feedback" part

hypno personally reacted to a feedback post of mine regarding diets and like, two years later it was eventually added

though now its useless due to the new diet system

[strong crypt]

well i wish that balancing took priority over realism cus as explained tenon rarely lose to carno which shouldnt be the case then

[fluid scarab]

Better put, I don’t believe they have provided much criteria for us to provide feedback in regard to “balance” of the game. Do they want it balanced so all playables feel “fun” (even though they may not be fair) or a more rigid by the numbers balance (uses factors like realism etc).

I know I sound like a nut case but I only say this cause “balance” in games is a term made up by a lot of assumptions

[stark knoll]

Fun and intended niche

If by "realism" you mean "accuracy", then that doesn't matter at all

[strong crypt]

well the guy above said balanicing takes priority over realism but it really does not then carno would be bigger if that was the case

[stark knoll]

Balance takes priority over realism, which is why carno is smaller than it is in real life

[strong crypt]

carno is straight up bad it is not balanced wdym

[stark knoll]

If you say so

[fluid scarab]

Does it have an intended niche? Yes small game hunter. Is it fun? Subjective hard to say

[strong crypt]

you say it like its one or the other it cant be small game hunter and supposed to be like it is in reality which is not the case

[fluid scarab]

I guess so no reason they couldn’t do that but what if it starts fulfilling unintended roles

That ruin other playables niches

[strong crypt]

and this its supposed to be small game hunter was changed from its supposed to be able to hunt stuff thats smaller than it which i think was a change for the worse

only reason that makes it its supposed to be in this case is the devs and nothing else and i say its making carnos gameplay less funn in every way and more unrealistic

[steep gazelle]

Something that made gameplay with Carno still fun was him being able to hunt Cerato xd

Now...

[golden coral]

They changed it, in part, I believe, because it was hard to balance carno being good at hunting small game, with a larger size

[fluid scarab]

Yep wd 👍

[strong crypt]

well carno was skillmatchup vs tenon vs cerato and good vs all small

cerato wouldve still been better vs dibble trike all bigger ones thats its nieche

[steep gazelle]

Now it is no more

Carno now can't hunt Ceratos and Tenontos and is still pretty bad at hunting smaller things like Dilo, Omni and Pachy

[golden coral]

Older carnos (various balance versions that is) were rarely good at hunting small game. And when they were, they also got a bit too good at hunting teno and similar

[strong crypt]

3+ raptor pack for carno= dangerous 2+dilo = dangerous cerato + tenon prolly= death everything else bigger= death

well thats the thing it was a skill matchup if tenon and cerato was better they wouldve probably won

[steep gazelle]

1 Dilo can kill a Carno. Bite, apply venom and try to dodge the attacks while attacking without even needing to touch the carno lol

[strong crypt]

yeah but it would involve the dilo being better than the carno but it really is possible because it is just in a horrible state

[steep gazelle]

Yes, but I highly doubt that will change any time soon

[vale brook]

carno just charges in the direction of dilo and the dilos dies

[steep gazelle]

Well, until then or until they make Carno able to hunt Cerato again, I won't play with Carno anymore

[vale brook]

cool

carno isnt meant to anyway

thats like saying "until deino can grab stegos from land im not playing deino" like ok? dinosaur loses a person who wasnt playing it as intended anyway

sounds like the ecosystem just got slightly healthier

[steep gazelle]

Cerato is in the same weight classification as Carno, so it should be capable of this

[golden coral]

Wait for settings and mods, then you can get the carno and cera matchup you want!

[steep gazelle]

The only thing I want is to be able to hit the charge on the Cerato again xd

[vale brook]

carno, the small game hunter that has its hunts fall apart the moment something begins rivaling it in size

is supposed to be capable of that?

[strong crypt]

xD that is so not true

[vale brook]

i mean the hitbox is the size of a truck lol

if youre missing CHARGES as carno, the playable is not the issue, i promise you 💀

[strong crypt]

u can be to dilo have one of them face tank poison apply other also bite then when poison runn away RMB dead

[golden coral]

Point still stands, you can get a carno like that, on an unofficial server. If you don't like it on official, don't play there. I am unhappy with their design of stego, so I will most likely avoid it, and then "fix" it later on. It's just how it goes.

[strong crypt]

he has to kill 2 dilo before he dies

[vale brook]

so hes outnumbered and loses... and youre complaining?

when the carno can also run?

[strong crypt]

2 to 1 lmao (small game hunter)

[vale brook]

not like it can charge at 55 kph for no reason

or got sprinting buffs in the latest update

[vale brook]

1 dilo is not an issue for you, or shouldnt be (unless you suck)

[golden coral]

Honestly, server settings and mods will be interesting. There's so many other ways to do things than what we have that would be fun to see.

[vale brook]

2 is dangerous for a number of creatures, not just you

even then, depending on the time of day, those 2 dilos are still an easy meal

[steep gazelle]

Carno, the small animal hunter who can't fulfill his role properly and with every update he gets even more useless. This is funny

[vale brook]

except he can, you just suck at it lol

[strong crypt]

didnt u say small game hunting is my speciality

why does two small animals threaten me

[golden coral]

Carno can hunt small game properly though, or at least so I've heard. But cera isn't small game to a carno, it's the same size. Teno is even larger.

[vale brook]

2 dilophosaurus, regardless of what you are, is going to be dangerous

lets turn on our thinking caps

[golden coral]

Because dilo funny, but that might be a dilo issue rather than carno

[vale brook]

https://tenor.com/view/head-explode-headache-my-head-think-harder-fangoria-gif-14330191

[golden coral]

Not sure how well the shadow magic works for them these days

[strong crypt]

two dilo regardles off what u are is not dangerous

[steep gazelle]

I'm a Carno main with 1500 hours, I'm not saying this without any experience lol

[vale brook]

clones are still very busted unfortunately

[strong crypt]

who dis guy?

[mint star]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1360934697454014524/smallgamehunter_-_Made_with_Clipchamp.mp4?ex=6861c774&is=686075f4&hm=43ba5287563dd0748b2c6ad0ecde22425cfaf3dffcd86797ac341a2d482e7084&

[golden coral]

Busted good or busted bad?

[vale brook]

two skilled dilophosaurus can destroy most if not all animals in game right now lol

[golden coral]

Cause I've seen everything from them not working at all, to being invisible and impossible to hit, and so on

[vale brook]

busted as in dilo clones still have no counter play and their application is poo poor

[strong crypt]

Well looky now ur changing the basis ur asuming 1 is skilled and one isnt

how is that a fair look from balancing POV

[vale brook]

i need you to form a complete thought before you reply

[steep gazelle]

People change their minds very quickly xd

[strong crypt]

lol likewise

[mint star]

god i love when people say this because its complete nonsense and funny

[golden coral]

So noted, appreciate you telling me.

So hard to say much about dilo matchups then, if clones are still iffy all around

[mint star]

i could say im an omniraptor player with 6000 hours on omniraptor only

[strong crypt]

ur jjust full of incorrect statements and ragebait

not very good for argument lillbro

[vale brook]

a: "two dilo arent dangerous!"
b: "dilo has the poential to destroy things when they're grouped"
a: "why u assume 1 skilled!?!?!"

you are not real

[mint star]

lizard

[strong crypt]

see thats not what i said now ur changing my words aswell

[steep gazelle]

That's not much, but it says a lot if what you're saying is based on what you hear or what you've done.

[golden coral]

Are two dilos scary because two dilos and they're skilled, or because their clones are working in, less than ideal ways?

[strong crypt]

using gifs wont make ur inccorect opinions more true

[vale brook]

clones working in less than ideal circumstance alongside skill checks usually

phantom clones can only save you so much when you dont know how to bait/dodge attacks

[strong crypt]

thats also why the 1v1 dilo i think carno wins if equal skill

[golden coral]

If clone were working better, would it be more likely for a carno or whatever target to handle them?

1 carno vs 2 dilos then that is, or what matchup you're all talking about currently

[strong crypt]

im just saying carno is a really bad small game hunter at the moment since all small game hunted animal threaten it way to much

[vale brook]

if they worked as intended carno would likely have a far easier time than it currently does

the only one that actually threatens it is dilo lol

omnis are barely an issue

[strong crypt]

idk what server ur playing on

[golden coral]

Then I'll conclude that it's a dilo "issue" and not carno then

[vale brook]

takes 3 just to pin + your bleed modifiers were removed

[golden coral]

I do think the bleed modifiers being gone is good, it seemed a little much with smaller carno

[strong crypt]

what is this bleed modifiers removed thing?

makes no diffrence i bet since u dont bleed a carno to death as raptors

[vale brook]

like carno objectively got buff after buff in this update to make it better at hunting small game, and to lower its efficency at hunting things its size and larger

you got more normal running stam, you got more charge stam, you got your bleed modifers removed, you got more agility and it STILL isnt enough for people who want rex carno back

[golden coral]

Carno used to have extra multiplier for bleed on moving/running and stuff, to make it more vunerable to bleed.

Oh you certainly could bleed carno at times, I'll say that much

Granted, older carno, on spiro, but those multipliers did work

[strong crypt]

yeah but its inefficient way of killing it as raptor packs

[vale brook]

a) obviously a large raptor pack isnt go for bleed on a carno when their pounce does 1k damage
b) you're faster than the omnis, and can dodge the pounces relatively easily. not to mention pounce is buggy as hell and has literally every counter under the sun except for bushes now

[strong crypt]

you should never go for bleed its just stupid

[golden coral]

From what I've heard, it does seem like carno is pretty good yes. My one quibble is if the "need to run in charge for x seconds before activating knockdown" is still a thing. I don't really like it, and would rather it take a few more steps to get up to speed and into charge, but have it "full power" from the start there. But that's just how I would prefer it.

[strong crypt]

on carno that is

[vale brook]

this bothers me yes

it should be more weight based

[golden coral]

Or that, yes, that would also be nice

[vale brook]

i.e dryo always gets knocked down, omni gets knocked down from a 2 second windup, dilo on 3, etc

[golden coral]

But yeah, otherwise carno sounds good to me

[strong crypt]

tbh revert it to 1.8

[vale brook]

yeah i agree having carnos dominate everything was good

that was a fun time

[strong crypt]

maybe you were not good enough to beat them=

[golden coral]

You could, and probably could make it work, but you'd have to really lower any stun/knockdown thresholds, and probably adjust charge damage and stuff as well. Though a carno that relied more on charge only for CC, with a follow up kill bite, would be interesting.

[steep gazelle]

Hunting things of the same weight is being a "Rex Carno"? Xd

[vale brook]

CC focused carno with a finisher bite would be interesting

[vale brook]

teno, the basis of how this discussion started, is not the same weight

[strong crypt]

apparently lol

[vale brook]

regardless, that doesnt undo the hundreds of people consistently complaining that their poor old carno can not hunt a diablo lol

so yes until further notice, rex carno

[strong crypt]

its not supposed to hunt dibble

[golden coral]

The whole "manual headbutt" while in charge mode to that, perhaps

[vale brook]

tell that to half the carno population

[vale brook]

TRUE

[strong crypt]

but it is suppsed to be able to hunt cera and tenon

[vale brook]

says who

[strong crypt]

not devs apparently but everything else

[vale brook]

oh so it doesnt matter is what youre saying

[strong crypt]

???????

[golden coral]

If nothing else, I am looking forward to the rework of carno, to see how that will be

[steep gazelle]

Tenonto and Cerato were the beginning of this, and Carno should be able to hunt it just like it was before the last update. Carno previously had the ability to hunt Ceratos, but cerato still had a huge advantage, which made sense

[strong crypt]

whats ur point here?

[vale brook]

because the devs are the ones who decide what the animals are supposed to do in their game

realism does not matter, as we've said multiple times. outside paleo findings do not matter. if the devs want an animal to preform a way, its going to get a kit that helps it preform that way.

you cant say "carno is supposed to do x!" when no one who is actually working on the carno thinks its supposed to do that

thats like me saying link should grow wings and fly in zelda simply because hes supposed to

[steep gazelle]

Now, the only playable who could deal with groups of 4 Mini rex (Cerato) and clean the server a bit of these pests can no longer do anything

[strong crypt]

Okay but we litrally have this chat for changing opinions so by your logic write nothing cus its not original intent of deves?

[vale brook]

that is not what i said

[strong crypt]

thats what u said

[vale brook]

but if you need what the devs actually use feedback for, i can find that for you

your feedback is undoubtably still important, but its main use is to tinker with things in a QOL way, or find player ideas that fit their vision

(gobbler carno is a great example of this)

because at the end of the day, dondi is making the game for himself. we've been told this since the start of the game

[golden coral]

And in some cases change their minds, but it would be because the feedback did it, not because of how many people agreed with it or not

[steep gazelle]

Devs also make mistakes, And they make big mistakes that can even make a playable useless, Pachy and Carno being an example

[strong crypt]

well carno used to be stronger then they got complaints and changed it so i dont see why its impossible to change back?

[golden coral]

Yes, and they will if so, fix it at some point

But they might not consider something a mistake, even if you do

[vale brook]

i remember someone mentioned "they changed trike animations cause ppl complained! we need to complain more!" and don went "its legs were clipping INSIDE OF ITSELF. complaining had nothing to do with it"

[vale brook]

well it is changing but not back into what it was

[strong crypt]

the thing i said about apparently not devs is not solid proof it llooks like it

[vale brook]

gobbler carno seems to be something theyre looking into

[strong crypt]

but not proof

[golden coral]

Because the feedback wasn't that it was too strong, but rather that it wasn't doing its described job well, perhaps

[steep gazelle]

Well, in the last update the damage that Pachy Receive from bleed was increased and Cerato was buffed even more. If they don't see this as a mistake, I don't know what is a mistake to them xd

[golden coral]

Or well, no doubt too strong or too weak feedback existed too, but the changes weren't due to that, but to make carno work as intended and not do other things

[strong crypt]

and also its like at the end of the day dondi makes the choice yes it is true, but say nothing and balancing will go unnoticed

[golden coral]

Pachy deals bleed?

[steep gazelle]

Receive*

[golden coral]

Which is why we can give feedback, but it doesn't mean it's always agreeable to the devs

Hence, we also will get options to adjust unofficial servers to our liking, because Dondi probably do figure that not everyone will agree with his particular version of this game

[golden coral]

So, it has less bleed resist now?

[steep gazelle]

Yes

[golden coral]

I'm going to ask here, do you have any stated dev comments, patch notes, or otherwise evidence for this?

[strong crypt]

yeah but apparntly according to @vale brook if it is not what they now have planted in game its not worth mentioning unless if it is compleatly new

[golden coral]

Cause so far, I've been told some.. interesting stuff that isn't correct, it turns out

[vale brook]

thats not what i said but if you want to be purposefully obtuse and read it that way go ahead

[golden coral]

I don't think that's what was said at any point

[strong crypt]

gimme 1 sec

[steep gazelle]

Kouga video, he tested the bleed that each one receives before and after the last update

[golden coral]

Alright, I'll take that as tentative evidence, but it's something at least

[vale brook]

"carno is supposed to do x"
"you cant say carno is supposed to do x when the people making said game are actively against x"

"SO FEEDBACK IS POINTLESS?!?!?!?!?!!?!?"

like you actually can not be a real person if that is what you got from me saying what you say carno is 'supposed to do' is objectively different from what its actually supposed to do

trike should fly! why? uhhh... because its supposed to!

there are so many ways to advocate for what you want beyond doing the simplest option and just going "idk cause i say so"

[strong crypt]

well rephrase it then . why is carno so bad i see no reason not to make it better in this spesific way against these dinos it would be more funn for more interactive pvp for all dinosaurs involved

[vale brook]

its (maybe) getting changes, but towards making it even better at small game hunting

so theres that to look forward to

gobbler carno is REAL!!!!

-# maybe

[strong crypt]

the thing i say about its supposed to do this is only because this game in almost every scenario is making realistic connections to the dinosaurs

[golden coral]

Silly as the carno looked on that image, it is interesting

[vale brook]

herrerasaurus climbs

dilophosaurus induces physically harmful schizophrenia

[strong crypt]

´"Almost"

[golden coral]

Omni exist, and pounces

[vale brook]

so ghost schizophrenia is fine but a small carno is where you draw the line?

TOO unrealistic, devs!

[golden coral]

And stego acts like a scorpion, or well, used to, now it can do something more stego like xD

[vale brook]

stego scorpion was so goofy

stego animations as a whole are a little iffy

[golden coral]

But yeah, plenty of odd critters in the game

[vale brook]

that god damn gallop animation hurts my soul

[golden coral]

Which is fine, we're all funny replicator test subjects or some such

[vale brook]

when you've been created for a company for odd possibly medicinal reasons, alot of things can pop up

[strong crypt]

well it is hallucinations in forms of attacks but its actually not hallucinations dealing dmg its poison

[hasty coyote]

the issue with carno is that its fast. So if you buff it to hunt larger things, its gonna destroy small things and be unfair for the larger dinos.

[golden coral]

It still is, though I have warmed to the idea, if the jabs were reworked a little. And yes, stego run is bad. There's the whole elephant or rhino or hippo or others to look at, so that would be nice. Plus better male plates, please.

[strong crypt]

hallucinating is a symptom of the poison

[vale brook]

yeahhh but if that was the real reason then the clones wouldnt have been designed to be able to fight back against

cant hit something that isnt there

[golden coral]

Still, dilo did not work like that for real... xD

[strong crypt]

semi realistic

[vale brook]

the whole 'dilo clone' thing at the beginning was to have an active fight against the clones

[vale brook]

it came close on release, and iirc its still something they want to get working with it

actually iirc it was a little too easy to destroy the clones on release lol

[hasty coyote]

(ironically you can't fight against them atm because they're bugged lmao)

[vale brook]

which is part of why dilo is so annoying to fight! yay!

we loved bugged mechanics! we love bugged mechnics!

[strong crypt]

its a little twist of the design with the same result

[golden coral]

I meant as in irl dilo, since we're talking about the whole "realistic" critters. But that too, though I do wish dilo leaned more into distraction and mirage and trickery, than damage clones. But it's not the purpose of the clones, I know that.

[strong crypt]

however carnos changes are a twist of it with diffrent results

[steep gazelle]

If you play as Carno you know he had a huge problem dealing with Ceratos and Tenontos, which makes sense. But being completely unable to hunt them is stupid, they are in the same classification of weight

[vale brook]

omniraptor as a whole

[hasty coyote]

especially when they make an an entire dino op or useless!!!!!

poor pachy

[strong crypt]

omniraptor is fictional

[vale brook]

exactly

[strong crypt]

carnotaurus is not

[vale brook]

well if you want to get technical, none of the animals in game are dinosaurs

[golden coral]

But if we can have fictional critters, and fictional abiltiies, then that applies to carno too

[vale brook]

^ this is the main point lol

[strong crypt]

lets make a movie about T-rex but i want it to be a 2 meter long with big claws but still call it T-rex

[hasty coyote]

weight does not equal power, should maias go around hunting diablos?

[golden coral]

I don't think carno did the gobbler thing irl (but I could be wrong), but well, I guess our carno does

It probably also didn't charge like our carno does for that matter

[vale brook]

yeah its called the 1998 godzilla movie

[strong crypt]

no

[steep gazelle]

Yes, You'll almost die, but you can kill it

[hasty coyote]

aint no way a diablo with any semblance of a brain is losing to a maia

[strong crypt]

havent seen godzilla 1998 but i doubt T-rex is 2meter long

[steep gazelle]

Maia can stun a Diablo and then apply the stomp. Sure, it's hard, and you'll almost die if you don't die

But Maia has the ability to do so

[strong crypt]

what is "Gobbler"

[golden coral]

Hey, as much as that's not godzilla at all, I did like that design of the critter

[hasty coyote]

and then diablo can trade back with a heavy attack (stun) and a basic. thats 400 for 625 (and thats if both hit the body)

[golden coral]

Uh, there's a rework for carno suggested, possibly approved of. I don't really know much more, but I'm sure someone else here can fill you in. Something about it being able to swallow omni sized prey whole and digest it I think. I'm... not at all sure, but it's something along those lines.

[steep gazelle]

I'm not saying Carno should be extremely skilled at hunting Ceratos, but he shouldn't be completely useless against them either. The fight between Carno and Cerato was great before

[hasty coyote]

^this is the original suggestion, how much is used we don't know, or even if its getting used

[strong crypt]

do you think it would do them good to refrain from reality in that sensse making T-rex on realease 2 metre long 500kg?

[vale brook]

hi

[vale brook]

i wouldnt care either way

[steep gazelle]

That's right, but Maia CAN still do it, he has the ABILITY to kill a dibble

[vale brook]

i dont plan on touching rex so whatever they end up doing to it to allow it to fit in the ecosystem is fine imo

[strong crypt]

well i can tell you almost everybody would be dissapointed and they would lose a large player base

[vale brook]

which is why they probably wont lol

[strong crypt]

yes so in some instances Refraining from reality is bad and i think this is one of them

[vale brook]

theres going to be 60+ animals in the final game

if carno doesnt fit your dinosaur fantasy, find one that will

[golden coral]

Well, they are reworking carno, so they kind of agree

[vale brook]

thats literally the reason we have so many animals

[strong crypt]

okay sure in 2050

[golden coral]

If only we had more stegosaur like critters xD

Though maybe one of the sauropods will fit, if the larger ones end up playable

[strong crypt]

if it doesnt fit you play this Yes but there isnt that playable in the game

why change and balance for something that litrally isnt in the game

im not arguing about the whole compleated game when it is out im arguing about right now it would make the game more fun

[hasty coyote]

carno is 20kph faster than cera, so it should struggle. And it does struggle in the exact same way maias do against diablo. Yeah if you play perfectly and the other plays poorly, then the much faster dino can win. but if they are both equal skill, the faster dino should use their major speed advantage to just avoid the fight or leave when they realize they are going to lose. Though with the new cera adjustments, it is def hard countering carno via stun immunity. But theres not really a way to fix it other than to give cera a specific weakness against carno, which just doesnt really make sense.

If you want to fight them, use the age old strategy of getting a partner, and bullying them.

[strong crypt]

Well see this speed argument is valid cerato should be favoruble BUT it should not be Unplayably unbalanced

[hasty coyote]

it has the ability to, but only if the diablo plays poorly. If the cera doesnt use or doesnt land a single charged bite trade, then it also dies to carno. What is your point?

[strong crypt]

Yeah but if the cera doesnt land a single charge bite, do you understand what a huge gap in skill it would have to be in order for that to occur

[hasty coyote]

genuinely, other than causing other imbalances, you would have to give cera a specific carno weakness for carno to even stand a chance. Cera being immune to carno's stuns while charged biting kinda makes carno unable to trade.

[hasty coyote]

the same gap in skill if the diablo doesnt use one of its main abilities

[strong crypt]

actually the way carno was at 1.8 ton the skill gap was closer and still in favour to cera i would say

same was with tenon it was closer but still alot favor to tenon

[hasty coyote]

1.8 ton carno was a menace to ceras and would destroy them constantly if you knew what you were doing. All you had to do is get tail shots to damage it enough and then face tank the cera to death. Plus carno was too strong to the point that it had to have such garbage agility and stam that it was useless at hunting literally anything else. Thats the issue with buffing carno, if its strong enough to consistently take down ceras, its MUCH stronger than any of the things its supposed to be hunting. Which means carno needs copious amounts of weaknesses so that they can live.

like the only time ceras would win is when carno burnt all of its stam in 30 seconds by charging 3 times

and at that point, carno is garbage as a small tier hunter and is only good at hunting ceras and tenos, which just makes it harder to survive as, not easier.

[strong crypt]

i think cerato would not lose 1v1 against carno if it does use enviorment like its ability allow it to do

but i think if you take 2 bad players the carno would always win back in the day

.

I guess id like alot of matchups to be closer idc how they do it but the reason why is because the sense of accomplishment for both sides increase if it is

You play tenon this carno comes u manage to kick it in the head and make it retreat damn SICK. now its like oh look a carno LÖL EZ

[steep gazelle]

Carno is 20km and Cerato deals 2-3x more damage. The fight between Carno and Cerato before this update was totally fair: Cerato had a high advantage due to high damage and agility,but Carno still had the ability to fight Cerato. Now a single cerato can handle multiple Carnos standing next to a tiny carcass. Like, do you really think that's fair? Do you think that's fun and balanced for both?

I like Cerato, but I know that giving him immunity to charge just makes things even more stupid for both of them.

[vale brook]

speaking of which we need body buff to scale with bodies again

alongside the stability modifier

[steep gazelle]

This immunity to the charge and also to the tenonto's stun only gives Cerato an overprotection that he obviously doesn't need

[steep gazelle]

I hadn't even noticed it had been removed

[strong crypt]

exactly and then carno wont fight cerato in return so cerato gets less action and the fact of it being so strong compared to carno makes it gameplay less funn

[steep gazelle]

So 80% damage reduction near any body?

[strong crypt]

i hardly think carnoivores needs nerfs with the herbs being as they are

[steep gazelle]

Something to do to make Carno and Tenonto's gameplay against Cerato fairer, without leaving Cerato vulnerable, is to make these two able to ignore the stability that is granted by the body

#general-feedback message

[vale brook]

i mean idk if it has fully been removed, i just havent heard much about it in a while

but it should probably be made more extreme either way

[strong crypt]

something like that maybe

[vale brook]

smaller bodies (800kg and smaller) providing negligable damage res and stability modification, with it quickly scaling to be about half around teno sized bodies, and then max from like 2.5t+ bodies

so like 5% damage reduction / no stability modifier for dilo sized body

35% damage reduction / smaller stability modifier than what we currently have for teno sized body

current values for 2.5t body

and all the little %'s that come in between in relation to body buff

[strong crypt]

Tho i do think that cerato vs tenon is tenon favored

[vale brook]

yarg, up above is mostly geared towards my ideal cerato rework anyway

focusing more on a heavy body bully lifestyle, rarely wanting to actually hunt something if it can avoid it

[strong crypt]

cerato being stronger near body i dont have much against it it feels like a cool twist

[strong crypt]

but for all we know they might fix this carno compleatly with its elder version

[hasty coyote]

Is it the most fun? Probably not. Is it balanced? Yeah, you as carnos have the ability to just avoid cera, you don’t NEED to win that fight.

Like the main reason I see ceras winning now is that they no longer get stunned by carnos. But that’s because they get stun resistance to deal with tenos, who would maul them without it. Even with stuns, people have been struggling to deal with ceras. So just upping the stun range of carno wont solve that either. Not to mention the fact that constant hit and run stuns is just awful to deal with.

So I really just don’t see a way to “fix” this matchup without entirely reworking either of them.

[hasty coyote]

Bodies don’t grant stability, they grant knockdown resistance (unless that was recently changed and not in patchnotes) cera with body buff being immune to cc was a bug with the buffs stacking

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

Less damage when it goes faster…

And for 10% of your stamina…

[hasty coyote]

The attack specifically designed to deal high damage to fend off Rexes… now with low damage.

[elfin night]

900 damage powerswing 🔥 🔥 🔥

[elfin night]

@jovial vessel bruh Omni was never meant to be hyper fastidia , and then dilo has one of the absolute worst agilities in the entire game 💔

Have you ever seen a canni dilo fight? They’re TERRIBLE

[true ginkgo]

@full ocean or even lower than that is something which I wouldn't mind

rework the model so it looks nicer when sprinting (as it needs to sprint away from apexes)

[full ocean]

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[true ginkgo]

I wouldn't mind paleo max stego, or a far smaller stego.

Current one is the worst of both worlds.

[full ocean]

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[true ginkgo]

though with current numbers, trike still one taps an 8 ton stego in the head without even having to knock it over.

Trike could potentially even flip and then instikill a flipped rex with a headshot with current numbers.

[full ocean]

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[true ginkgo]

wouldn't mind a 2.5 ton stego. reworked model to sprint way faster while not looking bad.

puts it closer to the more media famous stego vs allo level of combat

[full ocean]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[true ginkgo]

current stego one taps an allo in the head

[true ginkgo]

nah stegos balance has been a mess since the start. it's not related to being an apex.

it's just a problem child

[full ocean]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[true ginkgo]

At 6 tons with its current damage level, no carni below it in weight can hope to approach it.

While anything above it rolls over it easily.

Means stego has no carnis it can actually 'fight'. It either wrecks or gets wrecked.

[full ocean]

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[true ginkgo]

power swing also largely forward facing.

while basically encourages stego to sprint towards the carnivores. Which is a bit wtf

The animal needs like 10 buffs and 10 nerfs.

[full ocean]

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[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message how about 7.5T proper apex stego

[elfin night]

Exactly

In fact, it’s something I’ve been thinking about for a while

[maiden temple]

6T seems perfect for stego with deino's current weight as its at the end of the water-based grab limit

I miss the old tail swings tbh, stego felt much better to play

[maiden temple]

That's what I imagined the power swing stance to be, not something you run around with and wave lol

More like an immovable object kinda thing

[wanton edge]

we need 8.5 ton stego that can 50/50 rex and giga. ✌️

[full ocean]

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[maiden temple]

Kentro will fill the spot of needing a nimble and fast spiky boy, so I think keeping it formidable is more fun

[wanton edge]

it can still be faster than trike tbf, but current stego stands zero chance against crush. and making stego smaller seems like its pushing too far into kentros lane.

[full ocean]

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[maiden temple]

As long as it can run from something it cannot fight and fight whatever it cannot run from I'm satisfied

[wanton edge]

around that i'm p sure

[full ocean]

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[maiden temple]

Nah

[full ocean]

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[maiden temple]

Raw stat wise stego is fine, I just want more for it in terms of attacks. It's much more boring to play now and feels clunky when you're not using power swing

[full ocean]

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[vale brook]

i like how diablo is just fat

[full ocean]

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[vale brook]

no rhyme. no reason. he just chunk.

[wanton edge]

yeah, i'd prefer for it to be more tactical especially with defense 😭 if it was able to gain stability by using a quick move in its kit i think that'd solve like 99% of its problems with other large tier carnis

[vale brook]

((wellimeanthereisareasonanditslikelycerato/allobutstill))

[full ocean]

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[vale brook]

i sometimes miss stego just being able to freely swing

[maiden temple]

The artificial delays after using tail attacks are killing me irl now

[vale brook]

although i am willing to accept the problems that would bring into evrima

however waddle stego that just swung from left to right was kinda peak

[full ocean]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[vale brook]

stego also did the same damage as rex in legacy which is wild

only thing holding it back was those stupid weight classes

[full ocean]

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[maiden temple]

I like the idea of a stable stance, make it menacing so the opponent knows you're not moving >:D

Sure you'll still get haha'd by trikes but that's natural

[full ocean]

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[maiden temple]

Stable stance with slow movement but most powerful swings, and then a mobile normal mode where you can move as usual. I liked old swings so I'd keep that.

Basically a fortress when on the defensive side, and still strong enough when chasing threats

[grim moth]

@odd latch i dont think people liked ur feedback

[elfin night]

Bruh

Stego is nothing like anky

Stego might as well be very different to kentro in fact

[golden coral]

I would say it has more potential to be different from kentro, than diablo is/can be from trike. So hopefully, yes.

[elfin night]

Absolutely

Kentro feels so much more defensive with the spikes

They just look kinda similar but they will probably play very differently

[golden coral]

Kentro has the shoulder spikes, so shoulder checks. And the whole tail/rear with spikes, so maybe a porcupine style defensive stance or movements. Also maybe a "shove" where the entire tail is used, funnily enough stego running swing style could work well there.

Meanwhile, diablo is mostly fancier horn style, and otherwise pretty much the same. And I don't think diablo has anything with its horns or frill that it currently uses, or could use, differently from trike.

I'm hoping we get "teno" style kentro, variety of attacks, and a bit of a fighter, but more defensive than teno and more cautious due to tiny head, so presumably also extra multiplier there

[elfin night]

And then somehow comparing minmi to anky, stego and kentro was so skull emoji

Anyways, let the stego buff requests rain

Save our boi from rex

[golden coral]

Why is everyone suddenly concerned? Has there been new statements that is cause for worry? Not that I mind if stego were to be buffed, or even "nerfed" into smaller stego if neccesary, but has something happened?

[elfin night]

Trike buff to the damage makes the matchup very much unwinnable rn even against 6 ton trikes that can catch up to you

Even with a duo of stegos, fg trike just runs in and one shots one of your buddies

And since trike is meant to be very much an equal to Rex, people are concerned that rex is just gonna walk/run down stegos and beat them up

Also Kissen said something about things not looking good for stego

[golden coral]

I think you can win the 6T matchup, or at least around 5T (trike size that is). Yes, current adult trike can probably take on three stegos and kill one or maybe two before going down, depending on coordinated the stegos are and how well the trike can aim and defend. But stego can run, and so it would be able to run from rex too? At least with a given headstart, or so I've understood it. You see the rex in time, whatever "in time" means, and you run, and you'll get away. Otherwise you die. But maybe that has changed.

[elfin night]

Trike currently clears the 3 stegos since it can simply one shot them 💀

Also not really in the case of Rex

Since rex is faster and has faster trot too, so steg is kinda forced to fight

And tbh I don’t think it is that bad to expect that. Stego fighting off a rex doesn’t look that unreasonable

[golden coral]

Run away and break line of sight, into forest, perhaps? I don't know to be fair, it's just that so far, that has been how it was supposed to be. You don't fight unless like 2v1 or some such, but you can outstamina the rex and get away. Or perhaps just keep enough distance that by the time rex catches up, it'll be so low on stam it can't do any fancy attacks, and so you can actually kill it at that point. Would that work?

[obsidian cargo]

Pleas add more AI in the water FROGS / FISH SCHOOLS / ELITE FISH i lost my 85% deinosuchus and die starving in north lakes on EU6 due to lack of AI really feels bad and west of effort and time ! #ai-feedback-discussion

[steep gazelle]

I'm not saying that Carno NEEDS win against Cerato, but that he must have the ABILITY to be able to do so. Ceratos before the update already beat Carnos very easily if played correctly (as it should be), but Carno still could and had a chance to win the fight. It's not too hard to understand

[amber wharf]

@tacit ether you died due to the stun being too long or was that desync? It almost looked like the attack should have hit your tail - do tail hits do stuns/knockdowns (i thought no?)

[amber wharf]

My buddy tested it. A stego can outrun/outpace a trike with half stam. Stegos shouldn't be picking fight with trikes at all, tbh. People are just mad stegos can't touch trike anymore without getting murked. 💀 like you can literally run away from a trike and outpace them with half stam. 😂

[elfin night]

Fg yes

I said it, I dont mind stego getting mauled by fg trike

Problem is when trike is a better damage dealer than the specialized damage dealing apex

Or sub trikes now chasing and knocking stegos when they can catch up to it unless you run photo

Stego not only got a brutally one sided matchup (which also omens that many other creatures will get insta obliterated by trike by that horrendous thrash attack), but also just got powercrept

And that’s not good

[amber wharf]

How are sub trikes fast enough to catch stegos? 😭😭😭 what is that?!

[elfin night]

They literally can get to you unless you are locked into photo tissue or nocturnal

They are practically as fast as you are. It’s horrible

[amber wharf]

So trike CAN oneshot stego? The most recent vid I saw was 2 thrash/knockdowns and stego died.

[elfin night]

It literally can

[amber wharf]

Crazy sub trike can catch stego. That's crazy. And going photo just to outrun sub trikes is a waste of a mutation.

[elfin night]

Headshot knockdown thrash one shots stego

And no knockdown thrash on body deals like 50% of their health

So…yeah, I think that thrash should be toned down especially on targets standing up

Or at the very least Stego should have something noteworthy instead of having its entire role overshadowed by something that was never meant to specialize on dealing high damage for its size

Because trike as it stands rn might as well be able to flip and then two shot a fg Rex

That sounds super cringe

[amber wharf]

Tbh even if we lessened trike's dmg by a little, it isn't a handicap at all. Trike is stil going to be the one out putting the most dmg and with that thrash/knockdown they have, it'll still be on top (for now)

I do think we need to buff stego speed a bit not only to counter sub trikes chasing them down and killing them with ease but to compensate for rex. Making stego barely faster or the same speed as rex would probably be ideal.

[tacit ether]

prob both tbh I got knockdown from tail hit, stun timer is ridiculous for raptor as you are already 1-2 shot. I was full hp too the knockdown only would have made me green

[elfin night]

And what about not letting it be simply an objectively worse pick than trike? Seriously, trike has no business doing the same stego does but way better

[amber wharf]

Knockdown is, unfortunately, a risk with fighting larger dinos. I DO think though a stun from a tail hit is absolutely ridiculous.

I play maia. Their manueverability is iffy - but allowing it to stun omnis on a tail hit is so unfair.

[elfin night]

Way better damage, way better stamina efficiency, way better bleed, no drawbacks from a glass cannon unlike stego…

And again, trike should win

[amber wharf]

It doesn't do the same thing stego does.. and stego has way better manueverability than trike.

[elfin night]

But still I don’t see why that excludes stego being special

[tacit ether]

Yeah, just gonna have to play 0 risks even tho that was kind of a flukey knockdown. Love fighting maias tho glad they got faster atks tbh

[amber wharf]

It's also way less time to grow. I'm not wasting 10 hours to grow a beefy truck that can't turn quick only to get ridden on my butt.

[elfin night]

It is a better damage dealer than stego now 😭

It doesn’t do literally the same thing, but it functionally is better within the game archetype steg is supposed to be

And trike is not meant to be doing that, has no reason to be one of the best damage dealers in the game when it is among the tankiest in the planned roster and has free cc

[amber wharf]

We're just going to agree to disagree. 🤷‍♀️

[elfin night]

I don’t know what is there to disagree

Trike objectively has no reason to potentially one or two shot Rex

[amber wharf]

Yes lol. I love playing maia just to be hunted. 😭😂 Their attacks are much better now esp since they can change stances while moving. I'm glad to see more maias around and omnis hunting them!

[elfin night]

Nor one shotting acros

[amber wharf]

I agree with that, lol. But saying stego is now just a worse trike is a horrible comparison.

[regal valve]

It is tho

[amber wharf]

I think stego players are just mad it now something on the roster they can't kill. Stego shouldn't be able to kill a fg trike. 🤷‍♀️

[elfin night]

It is a worse damage dealer than trike

[amber wharf]

Then spend 10 hours growing a trike rather than 5 on a steg. 😂

[elfin night]

It is worse at its very archetype, and that’s messed up

Even in relative terms, trike is just better at dealing extremely high damage

[regal valve]

Literally yes, i get more value for my hours spent

[amber wharf]

Like I said. Then grow a trike. 😂

[elfin night]

And as I said repeatedly, I do not want stego to be soloing fg trikes. I don’t think many people who demand stego buffs want that

They just want the playable to be any special and not get overshadowed by others, as well as also standing a chance against other things

Because well, if trike never changed, and it is meant to be an equal to Rex, then things are looking very grim for stego

Fresh adult rex just walking it down or chasing it before obliterating it in two hits

[elfin night]

Why isn’t buffing a playable for it to have any incentive to be played besides vibes and option?

Why can’t both stego and trike be good?

[regal valve]

I mean, Stego is still good against everything else

It's just Trike is a bit overtuned atm

[elfin night]

Stego performs well against everything else because everything else are just midgets compared to it

Wait till rex, acro and especially giga come out and you will see how fun it is

[amber wharf]

They say its not good against anything else too. I had this debate yesterday lol.

[elfin night]

As I did say in my earlier post yesterday I believe

[golden coral]

Stego still has the reach advantage, overall it does better vs packs, or so I've been told. But I will wait and see if trike agility or some such might be buffed, or if other things happen. Far too early to say if trike will just outright be better than stego in too many ways or not. Though I do feel that stego lacks something it properly shines in. I would tune it differently from just "glass cannon apex", and move away from the massive damage concept.

[elfin night]

Stego right now is not balanced around dealing with other apexes

[regal valve]

But rex, acro and especially giga aren't in the game atm, let's focus on the present for now, rather than changing things now for playables years away (taking about giga and acro)

[golden coral]

I mean, trike has strafing, that's better manueverability. Unless stego has gotten buffed from when I played it, it's not an agile or manueverable playable. And it still suffers from locked movements on every attack.

[elfin night]

Trike is already in game and rex is about to come out, and I don’t see how things shouldn’t be balanced also keeping the future in mind, since all matchups will have to be balanced anyway

Regardless of whether the roster is completely implemented or not

[amber wharf]

You admitted yesterday you haven't played stego in over a year, or the isle for that matter.

[golden coral]

And why not? Why not buff stego to be able to do that? Is there any actual reason our fictional ingame stego couldn't be designed to do that? Also why does everyone go "no, you're just mad", whenever someone questions a design choice or balance. Is this some character fault for people where they can't think or something?

[golden coral]

And has stego gotten agility buffs or some such since spiro or early gateway?

Cause me playing or not, only matters if there has actually been any changes, otherwise it's the same it was when I left after all

[amber wharf]

Yeah, Like I said yesterday, I'm not debating with someone that bases their 'opinion' on what other people have told them and haven't played the games themselves, lol. And thinking a stego should be able to win a fight against trike is incredibly bias, lol. Good day.

[golden coral]

When we have fictional critters, how is it unreasonable? You're calling it bias without understanding that it has nothing to do with that. There's nothing that actually says "we can't have a stego doing that" outside of well, not wanting it. But that's somehow fine then? And what part of, I've played a lot and played before, somehow does not count now? Why not just refer me to patch notes or something if you want to prove me wrong. Last I played, stego was not an agile, or fast critter. Unless it has gotten speed or agility buffs, it's still not agile or fast. And it does not have strafing, last I heard at least. But again, if it has, then by all means let me know.

[faint robin]

Trike is way way slower than stego, again
I only see rex being problematic for stego

[maiden temple]

I wonder if we'll ever get a deino 'grapple' where two can co-op to drown stuff over 6T lol

[golden coral]

How much is the speed difference? Cause the way you put it, it should be a massive difference

[faint robin]

Trike is 24 w photo
And stego is 27ish w photo

[golden coral]

And without? Cause mutations are, well, a whole issue of their own

[faint robin]

23.4 trike
26.2 stego

Stego also has almost twice the stam of the trike

[golden coral]

Though even with, I wouldn't call that "way way slower/faster", faster/slower yes, but not to a massive degree. And I wouldn't call either of them fast critters, trike being a bit slower doesn't mean stegos speed is fast after all.

[faint robin]

Still a good bit faster than trike. More than enough to avoid it
I can't say same about rex

[golden coral]

Oh yes, I've never said anything against that, however. Nor have I ever said that stego isn't viable. I'm well aware you can avoid trikes just fine, I wish stego didn't have to, but as long as stego can survive the 1v1 encounter in one way or another, all is well. Be it vs trike or rex or any other playable.

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message

https://tenor.com/view/avengers-assemble-ready-fighting-pose-gif-16931816

[crystal stream]

Check out my new post on balance feedback it might get some dislikes but I’m just speaking my mind

[elfin night]

Stego fans must rise

[crystal stream]

This one I cooked I feel like

[dusky surge]

i dont feel like having a carno that not only literally picks up smalls and swallows them ALSO kicking the ass of tenos/ceras is particularly healthy, because genuinely what is their limit besides notably larger and easy to avoid animals

Also it feels like an antithesis to the point of a swallower carno to be able to hunt something it can't even swallow

[crystal stream]

Never said it should kick the ass of teno

I said it should be viable

In no world would a 1300 ton animal be physically incapable of hunting things its size

[dusky surge]

I personally just think carno should avoid teno tbh, especially if its primary form of eating is swallowing meals

[crystal stream]

Its not his only form of eating its its unique ability it’s like saying dibble shouldn’t be able to eat bushes because its to big doesn’t make sense

[dusky surge]

the dibble comparison is nothing like what i said lol

[crystal stream]

Why would Carno not be able to eat something it can’t swollow it still has a mouth

[dusky surge]

did i say it wouldn't be able to eat it

i just think if its adapted to swallow things, its prey and hunting style would be indicative of a creature who hunts things within a range it can swallow lol

and things outside of that range would either just not be on the list or just not be worth it

[crystal stream]

But why it doesn’t need to hunt anything smaller than it it can if it wants to survive but in no way should it be incapable of hunting teno that’s just dumb

[dusky surge]

i also just think forcing carno to have this matchup which, imho, has been extremely forced for most of carno's existence is just kinda bleh

the teno/carno matchup has never felt natural, they barely even share a preferred biome, it always felt like something done because of a small roster

if i were to think of a proper rival to teno, i'd think bary, not carno

[crystal stream]

what do you mean a carno would 100% go out of its way to hunt a teno realistically speaking not to mention its 1800 ton version

[crystal stream]

The fish eater cmon bro

[dusky surge]

the fish eater or the small swallower

i guess no ones hunting teno

[crystal stream]

A dinosaur adapted to eating fish roughly carnos size and you think it has a better chance hunting teno than a 1300 ton animal that uses its head

[dusky surge]

1300 ton? Heavens

[crystal stream]

Should be 1800 tons but people had to complain

[dusky surge]

Anyway, yes, bary is a semi-aquatic with high speed in and out of water, high bleed and I believe a "brawler" stance.

Teno is an animal that is fast on land and water and has no bleed resist, and relies on the advantage in brawls

Bary is almost teno's perfect counterpary

[crystal stream]

I don’t blain to much tbh

[regal valve]

1800 kg you mean?

[crystal stream]

Old 1800 Carno was insane

[dusky surge]

I despised it lol

[crystal stream]

lol yeah mb

[dusky surge]

Not because it was 1800kg but everything else about it

[crystal stream]

Because you like Theo

[dusky surge]

Not particularly

[crystal stream]

It’s cc?

[dusky surge]

Kind of but no

Everything about the charge tbh was just awful on it

[crystal stream]

Old carno was on my opinion one of the best depictions of Carno I’ve ever seen the charge kinda sucked wish it had a better slam like Mia

[dusky surge]

Damage WAY too high, stamcost way too high, has an obnoxious cooldown (which sucked to play with), had zero utility outside of just nuking something

New charge I like far more because of how versatile it is and how it doesn't punish you in like 5 different ways lol

[crystal stream]

New charge is ok but esp buggy unsatisfying and not very fun to fight against

Old charge at least had cc wich made it satisfying at least

Still had buggy hitbox tho

[crystal stream]

Damage way to high we not going to talk about a kick doing 300 dmg tho more that a 3ton animal Mia

[dusky surge]

at the end, no, it didn't even have that lol]

you'd need to spend over 30% stam to get a knockdown lmao

[crystal stream]

I mean old old carno not v5 I think it was

[hazy echo]

@sinful juniper that is where the canabalism comes in, it's very risky to be a deino around other deinos

[crystal stream]

That’s there attempt to balance it didnt need that but they chose to give it bad Stam to

[dusky surge]

yes, because 1800kg carno was a nightmare to balance

because it kept just dunking on ceras lol

every nerf just made it worse at hunting small animals while cera remained getting dunked on

[crystal stream]

Cerato had ways such as body buff and bio both able to catch a carno lacking it’s not as one sided as people make it seem

[crystal stream]

1800 ton animal good at hunting small animals doesn’t make sense that’s a dev problem the whole small tier hunter idea is pretty dumb but I don’t mind it as long as they don’t make Carno so restricted

[dusky surge]

i dont see how it doesnt make sense

hell, it swallowing small game validates the entire niche imho, because now there's a mechanical reason for it to want to do that consistently

swallowing a raptor alive is cool

[crystal stream]

Why would a 1800 kg animal need to hunt small carnivores within a ecosystem with so many other herbivores

[dusky surge]

doesn't have to be a carnivore

[crystal stream]

What else would it be a hipsi or dryo yeah bro very nice matchup

[dusky surge]

why would it have to be a hypsi or dryo

[crystal stream]

Patchy is literally the only other option and 1800 was ok at hunting that anyway

[dusky surge]

what about galli lol

[slim dragon]

And juveniles ?

[crystal stream]

How much does galli weigh I actually forgot

[steep gazelle]

Make it so that Carno can only hunt smaller things and doesn't even have the slightest ability to hunt things of the same weight category It's the same as making Cerato only able to eat carcasses and defend itself and not have the minimum capacity of hunt anything

[crystal stream]

That’s what I’m trying to say mainly but ig I got a lil off topic lol

[dusky surge]

490kg

[crystal stream]

Got a lil to wrapped up in old carno lol

[dusky surge]

2 ton carno with a swallower niche where it gets tons of food and nutrition from swallowing animals up to 25% its size, but struggles to hunt above 50% its size is a peak animal

you're a juvi, it sees you, you're going down the maw

[crystal stream]

I mean that’s more personal if anything I feel like some people that play Carno don’t want to only hunt things that would be such a push over

I get it’s survival but a 2 ton animal being so restricted is stupid

[dusky surge]

then... don't play carno???

like i'mma be real, there's this weird thing I find where people say "well I wouldn't want to play that animal so it simply should be designed as literally every other therapod"

i dont like cera because rather than being anything unique its "generic huntertron 300"

[steep gazelle]

Instead of trying to fix the problem just make excuses... Xd

[dusky surge]

i like carno because it's actually got its own thing

[crystal stream]

Carno is a fast animal that uses its head to deliver powerful blows to knock down or stun its prey you know like every other theropod

[dusky surge]

what problem needs to be fixed???

[crystal stream]

A arguably lame one but yeah ig

[dusky surge]

i dont think its lame at all

its genuinely one of my favourite niches in the game

[crystal stream]

Then that’s you but I promise a lot of people mainly me myself and I don’t agree

[dusky surge]

ever since they buffed carno in HT it's been a personal fave pick, and my favourite of the "larger" animals

[steep gazelle]

Carno has become unnecessarily incapable of doing things, like hunting a Tenonto or Cerato, where he should at least be capable of doing so, even though he doesn't have a high chance of victory

[dusky surge]

i dont see why it needs to do that tbh

like besides the fact that they're there, what necessitates you hunting a teno or cera

[steep gazelle]

Because it's not fun at all. It's like making Cerato only able to eat carcasses and defend itself and not hunt anything

[crystal stream]

Not only is it fun but it’s a actually realistic matchup I could 100% imagine a carno being able to hunt teno not to mention why would you limit it so much anyway

[hasty coyote]

Niche diversification, plus there’s only like 6 dinos in the 1-2 ton range, one of which (allo) likely just pins and wins, another who is just a wall of spikes (very fun to run headfirst into), another who is in the water the majority of the time, and the other 2 are defensive brawlers with good water mobility. The only Dino that doesn’t hard counter carno in its size range is magy, but that’s because we don’t know what it will do.

Meanwhile there’s PLENTY of small game which a 60 kph, 1300kg bullet train will just run over.

[dusky surge]

i genuinely don't get how not hitting specific animals makes it suddenly unfun

[crystal stream]

I changed my argument a bit

[crystal stream]

Old news

[regal valve]

Lowkey it should be that way with Cera

[slim dragon]

Carno beating cera and teno in a 1v1 is a bad idea
It's faster than both of them, and they're not agile enough to just outmanoeuver it

[dusky surge]

the metric of fun being determined of "can it kill cera or teno" is a bizarre gate lol

[crystal stream]

Not agile enough please bro teno and cera both can turn on the spot if you getting hit by a full charge Carno that’s on you not the Carno being broken

[slim dragon]

Carno should be a threat to teno in a 2v1, there you can have your epic fight
Same with cera

[hasty coyote]

I really just don’t see a way for carno to deal with cera and teno without just hit and run stuns, which is even more unfun to deal with.

[dusky surge]

its how it did it before. its about as fun as you make it out to be

[steep gazelle]

I'm 100% sure that everyone who says they want the Carno to be fixed in that niche would hate if the Cerato was also fixed fully in its niche xd

[slim dragon]

And lose momentum
They're agile yet, but carno isn't that clunky to allow them to escape that way

[dusky surge]

i wouldn't lol

scavenger corpse bully cerato is what i live for

i despise current cera lol

[slim dragon]

100x better than "do everything better than everyone else" cera that we currently have

[dusky surge]

people probably would hate it, because they're used to an overpowered generalist everything carnivore

and having any form of specialisation is too much to comprehend

[crystal stream]

If a carno commits to a full charge not only does it need to be predict its movement any change in direction loses try fully charging a good cera

That’s more matcup based tho not very standing on the point

[hasty coyote]

As long as cera can defend itself, it’s fine. That’s what I care about personally. If you can escape or fight every other dino in the game 1v1, then you’re balanced in my book. Carno literally can just escape everything else than a pack of gallis, and it can def fight a pack of Galis.

[slim dragon]

That's current carno
We're talking about a carno that hypothetically gets buffed to be able to beat these two
Which means they don't have the option of fighting back as they'd lose

[steep gazelle]

Doing this would simply kill Cerato just like they are doing with Carno. Cerato should be a scavenger with hunting capabilities and Carno should be a Small prey hunter with the ability to hunt things Of the same weight classification. Why? Because it's fun while still being balanced.

[crystal stream]

Current Carno v cera all you have to do is run and charge at it I think it’s easier now than never

[slim dragon]

So carno doesn't need to be bufed against it

[dusky surge]

carno literally isn't dead it's literally really good

tf you mean "kill cera like they are doing with carno" they have literally been buffing carno to extremely good levels

[crystal stream]

Man I’m messing up my wording a lot rn I mean cera only has to charge and land bites and it wins