balance-feedback-discussion

[keen plover]

Oh in that case LOL

[waxen lance]

yeah im jus waiting for rex

[keen plover]

Cerato is like the only playable I can think of with 0 weaknesses. People say speed but like ok

[faint robin]

Iirc kissen said rex should only be able to kill trike in an ambush or in 2v1
1v1 face to face trike will have a huge upper hand (iirc)

[keen plover]

Stacked playable with an omni level grow time

[twilit seal]

The easiest and strongest carnivore to play and people still make suggestions like this #balance-feedback message

[keen plover]

Then it's fine

Goodness gracious

[faint robin]

So its likely trike's gonna get balanced out considering rex matchup

[keen plover]

How did I miss that lmao

[waxen lance]

literally

[faint robin]

Hope so, devs change decisions every time xd

[twilit seal]

And they all think they are the best players because they killed an alt spamming trike or dibble solo lol. If they fail its not a skill issue but the prey dino is too strong

[keen plover]

LOL that is exactly what it is. Cerato montage #30 dunking on a beginner

[twilit seal]

All the teno op complaints are from cera players

[keen plover]

Maia ones as well. They don't like maia being faster than them

[twilit seal]

But when I play cera I can kill multiple tenos without dropping to orange

[waxen lance]

no literally half the yt vids i see are of like poo players

[twilit seal]

I dont even main cera but that thing is just too easy to play and not punishing enough

[keen plover]

Isle pvp vids are down the drain nowaday's. Sadly every playable is easy mode

Even then they weren't that fun to watch in the first place

[waxen lance]

i played it for the first time in months and it was just so easy fr

[waxen lance]

yeahh honestly

[twilit seal]

I cant really watch people that are bad at pvp either imma be honest lol, i do cringe a little

[keen plover]

Well depends on if it was a truly good fight

[waxen lance]

thats true

[twilit seal]

Easiest to grow too honestly

[waxen lance]

frr

[keen plover]

"It takes skill to play !!!"

[cosmic pelican]

I fear people will only truly realise how disgusting cera is when theyll start killing rexes

As long as they can make it vomit, its a won battle

[keen plover]

reminds me of turks vid

[faint robin]

(And rex will be even more disgusting knowinh dondi is biased for it)

[cosmic pelican]

Id rather have rex be disgusting than cera, rex at least takes 12 hours to grow

[keen plover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1155973027322933248/1382213427292016851/CANCER_CERA_DISCORD.mp4?ex=685a2811&is=6858d691&hm=731914a199c17e1fd3c8837e7a8922db02b48596775ef86d21053baa47d4c238&

😭 i actually hate this vid but

[cosmic pelican]

🔥

[twilit seal]

Depends on how rex turns, since it just one shots ceras with the pin. And I doubt its easy to vomit because trike barely takes any bacteria

[keen plover]

The idea is to pretty much puke a rex (assuming this is possible) and scent out all the nearby food to rot them and then consume so it can't feed. Then follow the rex

[cosmic pelican]

True, but I doubt your average rex will be chilling on food

[twilit seal]

Im not trying to defend cera btw its absolutely disgusting, but rex might be too agile

[cosmic pelican]

Not many prey options to hunt yk

[twilit seal]

Its likely going to starve in 90 mins like deino and trike tho. And other rexes are always an option hehe

[cosmic pelican]

Surely they wont make it a cannibal

Surely

[keen plover]

doesn't really matter

[twilit seal]

I dont think so, I do hope so tho

[keen plover]

the debuff is irrelevant

[twilit seal]

Its not like we ever kill for food in this game lmao

[cosmic pelican]

Its absolutely over for the ecosystem if rex is a cannibal

[waxen lance]

ppl are gonna kill eachother anyways on rex

[keen plover]

Like if i get to fg and i'm low on food. I'm going to eat other rexes. Cannibal or not

[cosmic pelican]

True, but at least you wouldnt be able to grow off of other rexes

[twilit seal]

It might have good scent range like cera and eat bones too

[keen plover]

Rex has been stated to be a bloodhound

[cosmic pelican]

Man I wish malnutrition

Grazing did NOT need a buff

[twilit seal]

I mean, if the food consumption from corpses is like deino, a single ambush on a teno or anything bigger will fill you up well

[faint robin]

Was grazing buffed?

[waxen lance]

it got buffed??

[keen plover]

Who really cares. If the sub and juvi are viable and good

[cosmic pelican]

Indirectly, by removing tze debuffs from having 0 diet

[faint robin]

Trikes need more reliable food sources tho
Not the 1 bite bushes

[keen plover]

Like if they're good enough. People might slow down their growth with the current system

[waxen lance]

ohh right

[twilit seal]

Active growth prayers instead of afk growing in a bush 🙏

I hope sub rex is fun

[waxen lance]

this ^ the food rn is not enough

[keen plover]

Same. I just hope it isn't busted

[twilit seal]

Let it run down ceras

[keen plover]

but then teno...

[waxen lance]

they need to remove speed muts and gastro atleast before rex is in

[twilit seal]

Im so glad i dont play on officials anymore

[waxen lance]

i wouldnt if there was a populated au server

[faint robin]

Is rex 9350 kg? I keep hearing ppl saying its 10 tons💀

[keen plover]

au player...

[twilit seal]

Was 9350 in a stream

[twilit seal]

Au is rough lol

[keen plover]

yeah...

[waxen lance]

yeah tell me about it

[faint robin]

Im official player and hackers are a problem lol

[keen plover]

the hackers are nerds and nobody plays on the unofficial au servers

They're everywhere on AU

[twilit seal]

Hackers and mixpackers

[waxen lance]

i literally got killed by a hacker just before on my dibble and yesterday as a fg trike

[keen plover]

Now why would you grow a trike

[waxen lance]

i got nested and was like may aswell cuz i wanted to try it 😔

[keen plover]

On au of all servers 😭

[cosmic pelican]

I miss when hackers only had speed and esp, you could actually kill those

[viscid mica]

If they sit in a open field sure

[waxen lance]

my first fight was against the hacker :(

[faint robin]

Hackers are so obvious problem yet not fixed

[waxen lance]

ikr, now u just get 4 shot and cant even fight back

[keen plover]

Only large creature i grow is teno

[twilit seal]

Even hackers were more fair to fight in spiro days

[keen plover]

yeah...

Used to easily beat them

[twilit seal]

How I miss actual balance

[keen plover]

Matchups have to be one dimensional. Cerato must never lose to Carno!

[twilit seal]

Everything has to have cc

[waxen lance]

carno small game hunter!! it shouldnt hunt cerato!!

[twilit seal]

Tbh carno is very good rn this patch

[crimson crater]

mainly herbis

[twilit seal]

It feels really good to play

[waxen lance]

yeah carno is lovely rn

[twilit seal]

Grapple and vomit

But yeah mainly herbis

[twilit seal]

Can steamroll cera if played right. Especially if theres multiple carnos against even multiple ceras

And you dont bleed out from a paper cut anymore

[waxen lance]

yeah me and my group of 3 carnos demolished 3 ceras

i knoww its so nice

[twilit seal]

Idk what people were on about when they said cera wasnt getting stunned with the new stability

[waxen lance]

yeah, when i heard ppl saying that i was worried but it was fine

[keen plover]

It's very Cerato sided 1 v 1. They have to do next to nothing to beat you. Before you could wait out bacteria and wait out max charge bite. Now they can just trade and win. It isn't that hard to see when a carno is trying to line up a staggering charge

But yes. Outside of that matchup Carno is really good

[potent fox]

There where debuffs? I thought there are only buffs for having diet.

[twilit seal]

Yeah i mean 1v1 if the cera is just not much worse than the carno I agree, but in a survival setting you dont always get the best players

Carno is just the better player if cera is losing in a 1v1

Multiple carnos are a different story though

[keen plover]

Oh yeah. Multiple carnos is a nightmare for the ceras lol

[cosmic pelican]

You used to get -75% growth and like a -50% debuff to every every other stat imaginable

[keen plover]

Charge has always been a really strong pack tool. Can't dodge every carno

[cosmic pelican]

In short you became pretty much useless lmao

[potent fox]

Weird cuz the game didn’t tell you at all right?

[keen plover]

It did

[cosmic pelican]

No stam, no damage, abysmal resistance to bleed, pretty sure you even took more dmg than normal

[twilit seal]

And you can perma charge now

[keen plover]

True

[potent fox]

You still need to hope for good terrain. I beat 2 carnos as a cera when I got like 5 hours on it while fighting in a human base. They had no way to land any charges on me there

[twilit seal]

Fair enough but if they realised they cant charge they could also just bite you to death if its a 1v2 but I get it. Theres still skill impression left in the game

[potent fox]

In the status report? Bc the only thing I saw there at 0 diet was temporarily infertile

[twilit seal]

Back in the days you would get all sorts of debuffs when the diets didnt have set hexagons

When you could have 3 dots etc, or 2 dots 1 S

[potent fox]

Oooooh so it’s a while ago. I started playing a few weeks after Maia release

[faint robin]

Diet grinding is not fun, glad debuffs are removed

[potent fox]

Same I don’t know why you would need debuffs for not having them when not getting the buffs is basically the same thing

[faint robin]

Even dibble was too slow for that
Was boring and unfun experience

Esp after funny cera bit you twice and you got your diet screwed

[keen plover]

Not really. If you have no diets rn, you're pretty much your base creature. Which is good. There's no negatives to playing without diets right now

[potent fox]

Je ofc the debuffs did sound a lot more significantly don’t get me wrong but for gameplay it’s still serves the same purpose. If you have diet you are stronger than someone without even if it’s just less important buffs

[crimson crater]

do you know about the charge + immediate bite combo? you don’t even have to go for a staggering charge to do that, and you can trade it for the 345. i wouldn’t say that the matchup is completely cera sided but mostly yeah

[keen plover]

Haven't been able to pull off that combo honestly. How is it done

Heard about it but never knew how to do it well

[crimson crater]

you gotta time it right, let go of the RMB button as soon as you’re like 1 frame away from the target and since it’s a special attack there’s no cool-down so u can immediately follow up with a bite, takes some time to practice as it can be tricky to pull off, but after that you can comfortably take on the average cerato

[keen plover]

Hmm. Wouldn't it rely on them standing relatively still. I guess if they're willing to trade it can work?

[crimson crater]

nah it always works, but when they’re facing you its easier

[keen plover]

sick. I'll try it out

[faint robin]

@devout flame this seems to happen if trike hits the head or the tail of other trike. The spamflop

Some abuse it yeah

[cosmic crypt]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/10419841909489849424/B843B82E4A5F9F21256A395307E1E62DB8386C1C/
Should this have hit?....

[eager saddle]

Lmao no

[upbeat isle]

I figured I should ask about this here before putting it on one of the actual feedback channels because a) idk if I should post about mutation changes on balance or general feedback, and b) I feel like I need more input before I suggest any changes, since I'm not even sure if they should happen or not.
Gonna have to section this into multiple messages by the way, because I don't have Nitro
Long story short, anyone else think Multichambered Lungs (which I'll call ML for my convenience from now on) feels kind of... weird, right now?

I've only had firsthand experience with it on Trike, so a lot of my opinion on it is based off of my guesstimations for how impactful its effect on other playables would be. So, if people can weigh in with their experiences with its and tell me my extrapolations or smart, or that they're dumb and it works great for other playables (I could see people who've used it on carno, cerato and teno being likely candidates for the latter), I'd really appreciate it, and that's part of why I'm bringing this up here first! :>

To get to the point, I feel like ML seems like it's kind of just mid. A 5% lower threshold sounds useful in principle, but that only brings your moving stam regen thresholds from 60 & 40% -> 55 & 35% for trotting and walking respectively. As I said before I can't say beyond speculation how effective this is for playables that aren't trike but I'm gonna weigh in on my opinion in regards to them anyway because I think that I might be wrong or right, but either way I think it's worth talking about. On trike, it... kinda sucks. It's not enough difference to make a noticeable effect on how much you can run, and it's much too small and frankly, niche, of a benefit to really be worth it in combat. With other playables I could see it being useful, but the issue is that 55% and 35% are really awkward values to try and read on the stamina bar without stopping to open your chat or character screen and hovering over it to read the exact percentage. I think for most people they just won't be intuitive values to read quickly and on the fly, which is not very convenient.

The thing is that the idea of changing it has me a bit worried. I'd argue that the best way to improve it would be to buff it to a 10% alteration to the thresholds (so, 60 & 40% -> 50 & 30%). It would make it have a noticeable impact, and it would be much more intuitive to read on the fly (especially the 50% value). Issue for me is that I'm worried that is too strong a buff, and might make it too powerful for playables like carno or cerato especially who already have good trot speeds and okay moving stamina regen.

In short, ML feels like it's in the weird spot where it currently feels both weak and unintuitive, however if you improve it to become intuitive it could quite possibly become too strong. I'd welcome thoughts because I think it's a really interesting mutation concept that kind of falls flat currently, but I'm not sure what could or should be done about it.

If this is in the wrong place by the way, I'm more than happy to ctrl C & V it to the right spot, just don't delete it without telling me so first, I put more time than I care to admit to write all that

[cosmic crypt]

MMOs have suffered from this problem for decades and they've taken some pretty radical changes to address them. World of Warcraft is a great example of additives to your character that feel good to play; they started off by allowing players to choose different specializations for their class. Preforming different move sets and preferring certain play styles. What they found over the years was that talents that only tweaked ability modifiers by small percentages were not "fun", so, they removed them and made it so talents would only be something that would greatly impact the playstyles. I REALLY like the direction that game has taken towards their talents and think the mutations in this game could use is it as inspiration for designing mutations.

Saltwater mutation is a great example of this; allows your player to change their playstyle and adapt to your surroundings.

[upbeat isle]

Yeah I see that perspective on it entirely. I myself (being more of an fps player) was somewhat thinking of Orisa in OW2 in regards to the possible danger of buffing ML; When Orisa is bad nobody plays her and she's considered unfun to play, but when she gets buffed and is fixed, she's meta and overpowered, and she's considered unfun to play against. Similarly, ML currently feels underpowered and weak and a bit clunky imo, but fixing those problems might well break the game in terms of balance if it's overdone and make it unfun for everyone else to come up against. Hence bringing this up here before putting it on either of the voting feedback channels, because I'm genuinely unsure what to do with this damn mutation lmao

[cosmic crypt]

IMO 10% would be significant without being game breaking

[cosmic crypt]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/10837585853565830763/C225F3AA19A0B440B2833BE558D584266F89A778/
OKAY CLEARLY PTERADON HITBOX IS BROKEN

[potent fox]

I think almost everyone would agree with that dw. I think it’s a super interesting mutation and massively beneficial for solo players but the numbers are just not there rn.

[viscid mica]

@faint valley doesn’t work cuz something like a galli, PT, or dilo could just follow people around and troll

[versed sable]

would it be viable to let troodons be able to climb trees?

and or utahraptor

[slim dragon]

Neither of them needs to be able to do that
And that's taking uniqueness away from herrera

[faint valley]

@viscid mica then maybe active admins should spectate and activate it manually ?

because they are chilling for hours together, isnt hard to spot

[viscid mica]

It’s not against rules atm

[faint valley]

ohh, i see

then probably a mechanic to recnonize if they chill via H together?

@versed sable we will be filled with climbing dinos and it will be hard to go near trees as for raptor, he could climb rocks only

[versed sable]

my logic was since they are able to pounce it makes sense for them to be able to climb and would give more variety to gameplay and activity in the treetops then just herras and hypsis

[crimson crater]

there are more arboreal animals to come

[slim dragon]

Why make animals who are perfectly good land dwellers into herrera knockoffs instead of designing more animals to be part of the arboreal ecosystem

[faint valley]

herras will be in great danger then and unable to play against climbing raptors, also raptors will be great predators against smaller animals, or even bigger dinos, it will be good to make them only able to climb on rocks or cliffs, so they could escape by larger dinos, or stay there to ambush other ones, but without the camouflage of the foliage on trees

[versed sable]

troodon climbed irl and utahraptor is related to species that climbed regurlarly, technically herra and hypsi are both not arboreal

[slim dragon]

I dont think raptors have trouble escaping anything currently

[slim dragon]

We have no way of knowing if either of those were climbers, also troodon and omni are both fictional species not adapted for climbing

Utah raptor didn't climb, that is almost certain

[faint valley]

irl bigger dinos could hit trees to make others fall off, and they went hungry after a long period of time not in an hour, its a game and its need its balance man, i believe we cant request to be 100% realistic, it wont be a game anymore then

[versed sable]

i was under the impression omni is being redesign into utha

[slim dragon]

It isn't
Utahraptor will be a different dino

[viscid mica]

Not exactly possible to tell the difference

[obsidian yacht]

thats a hacker

gotta be

[cosmic crypt]

I posted two clips yesterday of getting hit from distances that don't make sense; i don't think its hackers, i think the hitbox for ptera is just insanely large comparative to where our downward peck attack reaches- I don't think theres a safe zone for you to be able to attack without being retaliated from. If someone is attacking back you just can't attack them, it's too risky

[viscid mica]

No that’s definitely a hacker

Range hacks and with auto target are pretty common among hackers

It’s hitbox would have to be bigger than trikes by leagues if that was a bug which would effect a lot more than how it takes damage

[cosmic crypt]

I appreciate the sentiment from you guys @obsidian yacht @viscid mica but I honestly don't know that I agree comparative to the way I've been playing ptera... It really feels like the more lag you have on the server the more likilhood you have of being eaten from a ridiculous distance.. I wish I could definetively say one way or another though. I'm sure i'll get more clips of similar nonsense..

Either way it's not like the moderators/devs did anything about it x)

[slim dragon]

@dusky surge Does it double bleed received from new injuries or does it double bleed lost from already existing ones ?

[dusky surge]

just doublse whatever bleed rate it has

[slim dragon]

So it doesn't make it much more interactive ?

It's still just about getting the prey to bleed then let venom do the work while you wait

Apart that I guess you have to reopen their wounds from time to time

[viscid mica]

Did you report it

[cosmic crypt]

No :/ I don't have much faith in the moderation team

[obsidian yacht]

Well they're certainly trying, cant say they aren't

[obsidian yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

No offense but that is a very unintelligent decision

[viscid mica]

And you expect them to deal with it if they don’t even know anything is going on?

Didn’t know staff was omnipotent

[viscid mica]

Our admins our minor deities didn’t you know?

[obsidian yacht]

[hybrid harness]

Don’t seem to be trying anything with this mess up of ai, if they are then they should atleast post something to stop people getting so irritated about it. A simple “we are aware and are looking into it” would suffice

[viscid mica]

@open flicker everything except the biteforce was cooking

I honestly don’t think pt needs more damage than it has you do mad headshot damage to anything omni sized and below

[viscid mica]

They never do that lol like never have either plus that’s devs not admins

[obsidian yacht]

Why should they need to post anything

[open flicker]

idk i was fighting troodons earlier today and hit one like 6 times and it still wasnt dead

[viscid mica]

?????? That shouldn’t be possible

[open flicker]

i was only half grown (so half the bite force) but if an adult ptera has to hit in 3 times thats still crazy to me

but i did have 10 bite force i checked

[viscid mica]

Like unless you have the worst luck and hit nothing but tail I believe 4:5 hits would have sufficed

[open flicker]

dunno where i hit all my shots but seemed pretty centralised i dont think they were ALL tail hits

maybe 1-2 tail max

[viscid mica]

I’ve killed plenty of Herreras as pt so I’m confident the damage isn’t negligible for small stuff

[open flicker]

yeah idk the other day i hit a probably 20% grown herra like 3-4 times and it lived

[viscid mica]

Who knows

[hybrid harness]

They’ve broken their game, majority of the player base is annoyed, one message to the player base or atleast to the admins so they can let us know that they’re aware and are working on it. A lot of people have stopped playing and have threatened to stop if the game isn’t fixed

[open flicker]

like i either have the worst luck and only hitting tail shots orrr idk

[viscid mica]

Maybe pt damage is bugged

[open flicker]

not sure

[viscid mica]

W admins

Was bouta ping but they already gottem

[open flicker]

like just now i hit this adult herra probably like 10+ times as a half grown pt

idk how hes alive lol

[viscid mica]

Well to be fair your half grown

And Herrera ain’t tiny

175 is a solid amount

For tiny tiers that is Kek

[open flicker]

175 oh

i thought they were 150

[viscid mica]

Na a wee bit bigger

[open flicker]

i mean 90% of my hits were for sure headshots

headshots is 2x dmg no?

[viscid mica]

1.5

Only stego has 2x

[open flicker]

ahh

[viscid mica]

Pachy dibble and trike have like .3 XD

(This is not the exact value value chatters leave me alone)

[viscid mica]

The only reason I don’t think pt needs more is cuz of how much of a menace big swarms can already be let alone if they did damage almost equal to omni bite

[open flicker]

yeah itd need something to fix its dmg vs bigger dinos

but i feel like a troodon headhsot should kill

[viscid mica]

Ehhhhhhhh I mean at full grown PT can like 2 tap

[open flicker]

especially considering theyre on the diet and you mostly only get the one chance before they scurry to the bushes

[viscid mica]

Learn to weave

[open flicker]

yeah no i can fly in the trees easy, its just keeping track of the little buggers thats hard lol

[viscid mica]

Become one with the dip and dive

[viscid mica]

I’m a really old pubg mobile gamer(came out when I was still in grade school leave me alone) when matches where just giant snipe offs I’m very good at noticing pixels that aren’t supposed to move move

[carmine tundra]

@icy blaze teno not being able to stun cerato is a bug and not intended

carno can still stun a body buff charge biting fg cera

[icy blaze]

hope they fix it too

[carmine tundra]

nah thats intended for carno to be able to stun a fg cera, tenos tail slam not doing anything to a cera tho isnt

[icy blaze]

im more concerned about the kick than the slam because i was not using tailslam against cera

i meant teno fix. dont care for carno xD

[carmine tundra]

figured

[normal lark]

@onyx lichen

how much would the health recovery rate be, and would their also be a increase to locked health regen to the mutation for gastro

because having a simple health regen boost like cellular regen is not really good because, a somewhat light percentage wont work to well on a low number (meaning a low percentage doesnt aid much in health regen boosting)

plus the increase to hunger and diet drains is pretty severe (even if they stop at half for hunger or 0% for one diet)

it would have to be a pretty hefty buff to your health recovery to warrant such a sacrifice

[long zodiac]

what is up with trike, im eating a whole damn tree and it gives me less than %1 of food absolutle nutty..it's a lawn mower simulator at this point not getting enough food have to eat like 1,000 plants to be full stomach

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message what, a hypothetical syllogism drawn from basically nothing

[cosmic crypt]

how am I supposed to be able to tell thats a hacker... this has nothing to do with omnipotents, a little bit to do with the devs delayed response time, a little to do with false reporting, and even further, a broken games systems displaying as "hacking". Y'all can crap on me all you want, but there is no definitive proof on video that was hacking to me.

And more to the point no devs/moderators have weighed in on the video

[viscid mica]

@blissful geode sounds like a hacker

Cuz 2 head shots is more than enough to Garantee bleed out

4 body shots is roughly equal

[steep gazelle]

@soft mantle Cerato is completely full of bugs after the update. One of them being that he can cancel the damage and stun of Carno's charge if he hits the charge bite first, instead of having an exchange of attacks Or a clear preference for Carno because it is a Stun attack

[soft mantle]

i'm pretty sure that interaction was already a thing since ever, so which dino hits first will have an advantage, doesn't that make sense to u? or am i missing something?

[steep gazelle]

I'm talking about the attack with the charge charged for 3s, which with the slightest touch already causes Stun, or should

Any attack that doesn't cause Stun or knockdown should be able to both take damage from it, and that's what happened before this update

[viscid mica]

Cerato changes were not it they made it so much stronger with little to no counter balance

[steep gazelle]

Unfortunately.

There are times when I even think that the Cerato doesn't even have the speed reduction penalty when holding the charge bite xd

[viscid mica]

Because it basically doesn’t

By the time it would kick in they already up your rear

[steep gazelle]

I'm saying that, even holding the charge bite for 2s and running, the Cerato still runs at 40km and not 36km

[viscid mica]

Oh ya they have to hit the full charge

Takes quite abit

[steep gazelle]

Well, the stam cost occurs every 2s, so I thought the maximum charge was 2s

Is like 2.5s?

[viscid mica]

@ivory abyss instead of having something that’s as fast as carno why not just have neither stud something that much bigger than them as they are both far faster and can just LEAVE

[viscid mica]

No charge takes a lot longer to hit max

[ivory abyss]

But I wanna stun a stego

Why does dibble get special treatment 😦

[viscid mica]

Than play trike

[viscid mica]

And what’s dibbles speed compared to Maia?

[blissful geode]

I sort of just assumed it might be because of ceratos op bleed resistance

But then again it was suspicious how he made us vomit (it was dark and I don't think he was that close to biting, unless decync)

[viscid mica]

Even with its bleed res and a body buff 4 body shots from Herrera would not be survivable

Especially if the lunges are from any real height

[blissful geode]

I did have F2 recording but I couldn't get it to open, still bugged for me since ages, and I've also had personal experience on my own from getting jumped by herras as Cera, I didn't even need to sit to get it healed.

[blissful geode]

This video might help explain it
https://youtu.be/IPrqVxOhufo?si=rTU2KtqXR8Uk-ZPU

[viscid mica]

No I played HT unless it’s bugged it still shouldn’t give it that much resistance but than again this whole cera rework made it stupidly op so you might just be right

[blissful geode]

I don't even care at this point, Herra feels so buggy didn't wanna play anymore that day lol

[viscid mica]

Not Herrera

It’s cera that’s the problem

Cera is insanely op rn

It’s not even funny

[dusky surge]

its not special treatment

maia is an animal built around running from big things and beating the hell out of the little things that can catch up to it

dibble is all about throwing hands with pretty much everything that walks its way, bar a rex

you let maia stun a stego, then allos, albertos, maybe even suchos and acros can get bullied by them, which doesn't really match maia's "runaway" playstyle

[blissful geode]

I'm still gonna try to 2v4 ceras as a carno, I've done it before and wiped out a whole pack of Ceras with just another competent Carno

[maiden temple]

Lots of teno suggestions, teno isn't the problem though. It's all cera

Teno has all the tools to fight off carnivores that can hunt it, it just lost the ability to use them with cera being unstoppable

[maiden temple]

Omg the deino lunge looks scary af

Not sitting by my usual 'safe drinking spots' anymore. It relied on deinos being slow

[soft mantle]

exactly

[viscid mica]

You should be able to but I dunno in its current form be kinda stonk

[potent fox]

I mean I would hope that Maia can stun most of the carnis you listed especially if they weigh less than it but let’s be real even then Maia definitely wont be bullying anyone otherwise it would be doing that to ceras rn.

[blissful geode]

Holy yes, when I saw it I was shocked, never drinking in usually dodge able drinking spots now

[blissful geode]

I haven't tried fighting Cera yet as Carno, first 4 days after update I mained Cera only to see what's it all about, I played risky and demolished Tenos and trikes slightly larger than Dibbles, was testing stuff and everything. I'm lucky not to have starved yet, figured out roughly how AI spawn.

@steep gazelle I agree with you on the Carno and Cera feedback, me having played Cera against Carno was always confused on how I seemingly landed a charge bite but didn't hear the Carno take damage, lucky for me when I was Almost orange. The Carno made some slip ups and he ultimately thought he could talk me, charge bite to face and alt attack to Carno finished them, Cera seems op but they've always been easy for me as a carno if played right , will try to fight one on this update, since Cera got massive buffs

[ivory abyss]

Hellllllll noo what is its growth time 10 hours?

[viscid mica]

12 Kek

[ivory abyss]

GOD DAMMMM

NOT DOING ALLL THAT

[viscid mica]

Agony

[ivory abyss]

It's why I play dibble over trike any day

I grew a trike to 55 percent killed a 70 percent trike at 40 percent and killed 2 stegos. The stego kill were with my friend who also had a 50 percent trike

Then I threw it off a cliff

[steep otter]

To die to 4 funny ceratosaurus

[regal valve]

Fair and Balanced

[cosmic crypt]

So I can't suggest another change for 6 hours because mods didnt like my suggestion?! Thats crazy y'all.. I see some of the silliest crap put in that channel but it never gets removed lol

[steep otter]

The humble 1.3ton scavenger apex hunter

[obsidian yacht]

No... It's because that's the cooldown...

[mint grove]

Give me yall thoughts?!

[dusky surge]

hard disagree on everything to do with ptera, maia should not be able to drain a creature's stamina (that seems really unfun), but Trike is fine, although I'd prefer if its attacks were stronger rather than faster

[hasty coyote]

Maia is strong as is, if not borderline op, so I think most of that is unnecessary to begin with.

Giving a tanky dino with incredible speed and good stuns the ability to drain stam is not a good idea. Especially since it doesn’t help Maia in any way except offensively.

I think the stun thresholds are fine. Anything too big to stun is slow enough to get away from.

The stam is also fine since it forces you to either fight OR flee (except with tactile since it’s op). You shouldn’t be able to just attack something, then decide “nah I’m good”, and leave them in the dust. Plus it helps other dinos escape Maias who can’t easily fight them, since the Maia will burn its stam trying to catch them and by using its attacks.

Imo all Maia needs is a buff to juvie speed, it’s genuinely pitiful that you can get run down by a cera for 70% of your life.

[hasty coyote]

Ptera doesn’t really need more stam, especially since its rework is incomplete atm. The issue with ptera is that, since it can fly, it can just peck things to death if they can’t jump. Having the stam be limited at least gives the target ways to deal with them. Unless you want full grown Rexes running for the forests so that the ptera doesn’t sit there pecking them for 30 minutes to stop their healing.

Also picking up and dropping is quetz’s job, not a tiny fisher/scavenger’s job.

[hasty coyote]

I do know trike has some issues with its turning since small dinos can run circles around it, so I think it would be fine to buff their spar turning.

Its attack animations were already sped up and seem fine imo.

I guess it could deal more bleed, but bleed doesn’t really help trike at all. It’s mostly useful offensively since it basically tells the target to stop moving or suffer and takes time to have any effect, which makes bleed generally not that useful defensively unless you have WAY too much of it.

[potent fox]

I rlly would like a bit more stam for fighting bc last time I was fighting a dilo pack I was out of stam before even having killed 1 of them even tho I hit 90% of my attacks and was playing super defensively . Sure i guess I should lose anyway when it’s a 5v1 but it felt frustrating bc the fight was rlly fun up until I was literally unable to do anything.

[tardy wind]

@urban tendon In response to your comment about trike stunlocking in balance feedback, I agree it's absolutely ridiculous and a longer cooldown or something needs to be added, but as a tip: If they're using the trick where they flip you by hitting the side of your head, you can actually look directly upwards and it moves your hitbox out of the way of their attack (at least as a larger trike).

Hope that helps! Still sucks and I completely agree with you

[hasty coyote]

A 5v1 is kinda just gonna suck reguardless. But even without stam, you can still use your alt attacks which are actually solid now.

Plus dilo clone spam is still op and needs to be nerfed.

[knotty stratus]

Already complaining about trike damage lolllll

Bruh just walk away lmao

[hidden kettle]

anyone got the exact conditons to pin something ?
got pinned and held on the ground by two juvies yesterday since i used bucking 😄
just wanna know the stats behind it ._.
get the out of stam = free pin sense but still its kinda wierd on juvies and why is bucking still that useless thought they already adjusted that a few times (sorry for all the herbies out there) 😄

[hidden kettle]

true. but its hitbox is a bit off from my experience like an alt attack going 90 degreece hitting 180 😄
but hey we used to stego swings haveing wierd reach sometimes so not a big new thing ig 😄

[twilit seal]

trash and flip still hit inside half its body, accidentally putting your face too far into the body will cost you your life now. It already put you out of the fight but I guess we will see with bigger dinos to fight trike. If rex gets knocked down in sparring and trike just trashes its face its dead

@random stump they fixed stun locking this patch, cant chain knock downs anymore again like before

[dusky surge]

oh fr

[hidden kettle]

ye its wierd, but for now it is what it is sadly ._.

[livid spindle]

Troodon can attach poisoning to Triceratops with only one attack.

[steep gazelle]

Have you tested this from the troodon perspective?

that could just be stage 1 of venom

[livid spindle]

I think Troodon should not affect such a big animal, or at least it should need many attacks.

[steep otter]

I think trample damage will help with that

[hidden kettle]

still its a lot tbh for venom on a trike. stuff at that weight should take multiple pounces per stage. troodon is in a very good spot with x10 multiplier 😄
seen a trooo nearly solo a sub trike 😄

[amber wharf]

@steep otter oh yeah, I think rex is going to be a brutal grow. I think juvie and even fresh sub rex are going to have HEAVY competition with cerato/carno/dilo, and constantly targetted (as it should be, we don't need a million rexes roaming around like legacy is). I think your best shot at growing a rex will be getting nested and even then, herreras be sniping babies. xDD

[steep gazelle]

The only thing I noticed is that the fog seems to be too dark

[steep otter]

And for all that hardship u get a powerfull animal, like it should be

[amber wharf]

💯 All I can hope for is once you hit sub rex, you are SOMEWHAT of a power house. Legacy full grown sub rex could 1v1 allo and win if they were smart, but could also bleed out if not careful.

[golden coral]

If troodons can hunt stegos, they can probably hunt adult trikes. Not like the new damage would matter to them xD

[golden coral]

Doesn't one pounce from troodon always raise venom one stage, no matter the target?

[amber wharf]

I want to say yes... I thought wehn troodon was adult weight didn't matter - stage one was always applied with first pounce but i coiuld be wrong.

[livid spindle]

I feel that troodon and dillo's venom is more like magic, while cera's bacteria are more like venom. Venom should be a consumable, but cera bacteria will run out? ? ?

Troodon's venom is like a ritual, and it needs the right order?

[golden coral]

Agreed

[golden coral]

Which I find incredibly silly, for a horde playable whos entire thing should be to literally overwhelm and drown the target in attacks

[livid spindle]

At first, when cera's bacterial ability was revealed, I thought it was to get a buff that lasted for a period of time after eating carrion, so that it had this ability.

[golden coral]

But no, somehow they need to go about it in a very orderly manner... xD

[livid spindle]

But there is no explanation in the game, it will not work as you usually think.

[hidden kettle]

well from x5 to x10 is a huge difference imo 😄
sure a good pack should be able to hunt it but one pounce for stage one doesnt seem fair to me. Pretty potent poison id say on a 6 ton steg/ 8 ton trike 😄

[golden coral]

Ah, I meant the new trike damage xD Not troodons

[livid spindle]

Triceratops' problem is flexibility, and it is very easy to misoperate.

Triceratops really needs higher attack power, but at present, it seems a bit overkill, especially the double-click attack, which is unimaginable.

[golden coral]

Well it got the power now, if it also gets agility, not sure how well that'll go

[livid spindle]

The most important thing is that it is easy to misoperate. If you accidentally use a double-click attack, it is equivalent to stunning yourself.

[golden coral]

Maybe they'll change that around again, or people will get used to it

Though with the new damage, as long as you hit....

[steep gazelle]

It's so simple to make the Cerato balanced with what it already has currently.

After the last update, Cerato takes 2s to reach maximum damage and 6s for the cost of Stam of a ridiculous 0.20% to occur and also for the reduction in speed to occur, which makes no sense at all, as it is written that the cost of stam and reduction in speed occurs when It reaches maximum damage.

The speed reduction also doesn't work properly. Without the speed mutation, the speed goes to 36km (10% of 40km/h) but when using a speed mutation, the Cerato's speed goes to 39.9km/h, Whereas it should be 37km/h with the speed mutation (10% of 42km/h)

(5h cooldown in balance-feedback, so I posted it here)

[livid spindle]

But 3000~4500 attacks are a bit crazy and should not be so extreme.

Now cera can kill Triceratops so easily. I think this is the reason. It is easy to achieve the maximum damage. Each attack is more than 300, so 20 attacks can seriously injure Triceratops.

And other dinosaurs that can do 300 injuries with each bite are definitely not as flexible as cera.

For example, if there is Allosaurus, it is not necessarily better than cera to deal with Triceratops. It is more inflexible and easier to be hit by Triceratops, and once it is hit, it is not much different from cera.

[steep gazelle]

Now trike has also become a problem, just like Cerato xd

1 step forward, 3 steps back

[hidden kettle]

im fine with that i mean it should fight a rex so its ok and steg also got huge dmg with a single swing so whats the diffence 😄

[hidden kettle]

well but allo will pounce and i think that makes a huge difference 😄
also ive seen troodons kill a trike and ive seen omnis do it, not especially a cera thing.
even saw a pack of carno try it for whatever reason and they did pretty well for their movement tbh

[livid spindle]

However, during the growth of Triceratops, the growth of attack power is not high. Adult Triceratops can have 9.5 tons and 900 attack power, but a 5-ton young Triceratops only has 360 attack power, which may be reasonable. Triceratops takes 8 hours to grow, which has long-term risks and finally gets a high return. Now, just because there are no more powerful carnivores, you will basically have no natural enemies when you grow to 3~4 tons, so if there are more large carnivores in the future, the underage triangle is their best food, and there is not enough fighting power and speed to escape ~

[hidden kettle]

ye already wrote that in feedack the mutation throws off the speed adjustments.
Cera on Cera is pretty dumb by that since if you dont pick the muteation ya pretty F* since it can chargebite and run you down 😄

So now Cera got at least 2 mutations that they are forced to ( speed and gastro since gastro is OP af still ) 😄

here we go

#balance-feedback message

@dawn heath

Problem is it should be opportunistic which leads to eating a herbie IF needed (imo just on need its a scav/bully not a Hunter)

Also theres plenty of herbies running around that are bored to the bones and just try to corpse camp and deny food for carnivores, for the sake of being a bored "D" ig... therefore it needs to threaten them off the food. And the best way to make something being annoyed fighting you, is to make it vomit.

[dawn heath]

It would still be able to hunt without vomit, it just wouldn't be able to animation lock/cheese big herbis that can't run away and/or stunlock herbis that are fast enough to get away otherwise. And it still has the body buff around corpses, if it can't intimidate an animal away with that it probably shouldn't be fighting it solo to begin with imo.

[hidden kettle]

Already said they could remove sprint + charge bite to make it a non hunter but thats a problem on other sides again ( i would be fine with that tho)

[dawn heath]

Besides I think there should be something discouraging herbis from camping bodies if it's that big of an issue that it would significantly affect cerato being able to scavenge

[livid spindle]

I am puzzled by a question, why is it easier to vomit with less stomach than with more stomach? Shouldn't it be the opposite normally? Like I didn't dare to eat too much before I got a ride, because it would be easy to throw up.

[hidden kettle]

thing is Cera aint a real pack thing.. most run around solo/duo and as a solo cera you gonna have a hard time defending a dead carno f.e. against a stego/dibble/trike.. since a blow could make you disappear into the selection screen.

Its far from animation/stun lock 😄
you should have seen old cera perma vomit that was a problem XD

[hidden kettle]

its affecting every carnivore since a omni pack / carno pack nothing gonna fight a stego that denies your food.

ye some sort of debuff/panic thing would be great for herbies that chill around a corpse for too long... doesnt sound nature to chill at your buddies corpse next to the predator 😄

[dawn heath]

I guess I get that but like you do still have big packs of ceras that I've at least heard are like dunking on trikes; I don't think trike should be invincible but I just don't think that's something cerato specifically should be doing with its identity as a scavenger/bully

[hidden kettle]

well balance wise its easier that way, also a poor fed beeing should be more likely to get bacterial infections (or sicknesses in gerneral), should it? 😄

[livid spindle]

I can only choose not to go to the official server. It is forbidden for herbivores to do this in the private server I play. I don't think the game can use some mechanism to force players not to do so. You should go to that style of server.

[obsidian cargo]

dying here 😦 for the third time because there are no fishes and elite fishes in the swamps in EU4 ! #general-feedback-discussion

[hidden kettle]

well thing is... its more or less the only thing existing atm that can take 1 hit (at some point) and turns quick enough to actively do harm. also vomiting surely takes its place since you can dry it out at a long term.

so a giga pack of 6-8 ceratos is quite the same weight as a Trike so im fine with it.

Yes Cera is not meant to be an active hunter but more a Scav/bully but still opportunity gonna get used.

Trike would have the same problem on omni/troodon or even dilo ( if its pretty good) since they can out turn them. just would take longer on omni due to less dmg per bite.

[hidden kettle]

well as far as i remember they are thinking of stuff for those cases, same goes for mixpacks. (if i remember correct tho)

Ye thing is i still like being on official.. had some bad experiences on private stuff..

[dawn heath]

Right, but dilo and omni are meant to be big game pack hunters. That's why I have a problem with cera being more effective at it than them, it just doesn't fit with the intended identity of the animal. I guess similar to herbis having something preventing them from being near corpses for too long it would be good to add some more meaningful limits on how many others of your species you can be around for extended periods

[livid spindle]

The official server is an unmanaged zone, and you can't always build your game experience on today's luck.

[hidden kettle]

YES i can 😄

[livid spindle]

The official server is a dark forest. When you meet your own kind, you don't know if he will attack you, and you don't know if he will think you will attack him. But some species decide everything first. As long as you kill him first, he won't have a chance to kill you, even though you may not want to.

A bad environment is bound to make everyone nervous.

Just like Triceratops now, one attack can cause 4000 points of damage, so as long as he makes the first move, you will not be able to make a comeback, and the eight-hour effort will be destroyed.

[hidden kettle]

True but thats just an abuse of it being the hardest bite/weight carnivore (on Land obv.) at this moment.. since we got a few herbie Apex and big boois and no real deal on the carnivore side..(besides a really good communicating big omni pack, but that conditions rare since most randomly meet) if we had something a bit bigger than cera it would be used as "mini-rex" of the moment.

As soon as we get a bigger Carnivore Cera will get pushed back into the scav/bully scene.

[hidden kettle]

well at least you can always run from a trike and stay away from it. ( at least you should be able to)
also 4000 dmg sound more like a combination than a single blow 😄
sure once ya knocked ya done obviously 😄

[livid spindle]

Anyway, he can do it. It's extreme that an attack destroys your efforts for so many hours.

[hidden kettle]

say more after i get snatched from a croc 20feet away from me by a sweaty power lunge after 2hrs ... again and again 😄

some things are not fair, but they are meant to be like that >.<

[livid spindle]

I think we can't really see what this game should be like until Rex and allo join the game. At present, there is a lack of large carnivores, and the relationship between various dinosaurs is actually very strange.

On the other hand, there used to be very little AI on land, but there were many fish in the water, and even deino gave alms to land dinosaurs. But now, the other way around.

[hidden kettle]

ye its wierd sometimes .. and ye we need a bigger carnivore

[livid spindle]

The carno in the game is much smaller than the reality, and it should be 2 tons. However, the largest carnivorous dinosaur in the environment can't be the fastest dinosaur. I hope carno can return to a position close to reality after having bigger carnivores in the future.

[steep otter]

Trike damage is perfect RN Imo

Now we just need to tone down cerato

[steep gazelle]

Bite force yes, trash atack no

[hidden kettle]

well it used to be bigger ... was fine with that even it felt wrong compared to the carno we got now 😄

[livid spindle]

Like I said, a triceratops has been tortured by troodon all the way.

[steep gazelle]

As it should. Troodon supremacy

[golden coral]

It's a little silly three pounces will put anything at stage three venom, but well, if you can't kill them, bother them I guess xD

[steep gazelle]

Well, he gets hitkilled by anything. And it takes about 118 pounces to kill an adult trike without counting the extremely op regeneration. A trike that lets itself take that many pounces must die anyway xd

[golden coral]

Yeah, sure, it's not the pounce to kill I mind, it's the "you get full venom debuff in three pounces, even as a 9T rex or trike" that's funny to me

And I honestly doubt a trike is hitting a troodon anytime soon xD

But yeah, it's not "it can kill the trike" that's the thing, it's just the funny venom being so "easy" to apply even to an apex

[golden coral]

Wouldn't it be more like 90 pounces or so? Doesn't a stage three pounce do about 100 damage at least?

And with a full pack, that'd be what, 15 pounces per troodon, it sounds pretty doable, if taking quite a while

[hidden kettle]

i just died with a fg troodon to a trike at the sanctuary by pounceing its back .. (!!) something off with these trikes man 😄
and yes about 100dmg .. which is completely nuts against a trike... 8 troodons would take 10 bouncey jumps each which is pretty heavy 😄
even 4 could do it with 20 thats not a big deal.. if you dont die for no reason *cough cough

[golden coral]

Well, funky hitboxes aside, I meant if the trike you know, had to hit you normally xD

It doesnt strike me as a playable good at hitting tiny, agile things very well

[hidden kettle]

Not sure if im allowed to post this clip here but for some reason thrashing is a 360 degree defense mode i just figured XD

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/kzZKPJHYQWuEkSh78?invite=cr-MSw1ZlAsMjM5NjE0Nzc4

that the life i just lost btw 😄

[livid spindle]

I also relied mainly on this to defend myself in that battle, but most of the time, I was basically very passive.

Think about Triceratops or Rex being stuck in the corner by this little thing.

For adult Triceratops, troodon can jump from anywhere, because his target is very big, and it is hard to say which direction to attack.

[golden coral]

Rex with it's better NV, meet a single troodon at night xD

"What do you mean you'd like to see and hunt, how about I just keep you company"

[steep gazelle]

Troodon causes less dmg the larger the prey is

[hidden kettle]

ye it depends on weight but still they pack a lot for these tiny OOOOOOWWAAAAAAA things 😄

[livid spindle]

The attack of three troodon made my blood lose 20% and my ECG turned yellow. I do feel a little helpless, but I can make mistakes many times. Every time I try to seize the opportunity for him to come down, the probability of hitting them will increase over time.

[golden coral]

What? How?

[steep gazelle]

The damage starts to be less than 100 I think around the weight of the Maia, 4t

[golden coral]

Wait, why does troodon have damage scaling? When did that change happen?

[steep gazelle]

Don't try to understand the devs minds

[golden coral]

I guess that is one way to "solve" the issue

There any notes, or comments, confirming this?

[livid spindle]

But I fought in the previous version, when troodon would make stamina of Triceratops lose quickly.

[golden coral]

Cause I've heard comments on stego attacks being nerfed, but that does not seem to be true

[livid spindle]

At least at that time, I didn't feel that the damage was getting lower, and I soon suffered a lot of damage.

[golden coral]

So you'll forgive me for being a little wary of just believing you xD

[steep gazelle]

Well, you can test it on free admin servers if you want

[hidden kettle]

as far as i know it depended on weight for quite a while now... ( just remember it that way )

[livid spindle]

、I remember the official once said that troodon would deal with prey like teno at most. But if the bigger dinosaur is very difficult to hit you, it is only a matter of time before it is killed.

[golden coral]

Yes, I've seen that too, but that never held true, considering they've killed larger than that, including stego, since way back when

Of course, the funny stam drain helped a lot there, but still

[golden coral]

Never heard of it before today, not saying you or the other guy is lying, just would be nice with some official statement :D

[livid spindle]

Stego should be more difficult to deal with than Triceratops. stego has a large attack range, while Triceratops can only ensure that the direction of your attack is absolutely correct.

[hidden kettle]

well hope a lot of scrolling on steam will show it xD

btw any words to that 360° trike ? 😄

[livid spindle]

When I was a triceratops, I just kept spam and killed troodon by random attacks.

[golden coral]

Should be, yes. Is, not so sure. Hopefully it is, but I don't know, it doesn't always seem like it.

[golden coral]

Aside from, weird hitbox is weird, it's the Isle. Get used to disappointment, as someone once said.

[hidden kettle]

and minigolf multiple troodons by a single swing to the moon 😄

[livid spindle]

The most fundamental reason is that troodon's venom ignores the size difference. Whether you are omni or Triceratops, the number of attacks required to reach the venom stage is the same.

Troodon can also make Triceratops bleed, which is incredible.

[hidden kettle]

ahhh already used to get a lot of "WHHHAT the DUCK" moment... quite a while around 😄
just feels more like a bug while thrashing than an actual hitbox problem (since you dont get hit by standing there, mostly..)... like "dieing but not dieing" if you pounce the head 😄

[hidden kettle]

its still kinda wierd to have overpotent venom that get 8tons into a woodstock concert by jumping 1-3 times 😄

[livid spindle]

It's not like venom, at least not like venom on earth. troodon and dillo's venom doesn't cost anything, but enchants their mouths.

For animals, venom should be a resource

Cera's is very much like venom

[hidden kettle]

well at least it need to get it by eating rotten stuff and loses enough from bites 😄
could compare it to a comodo dragon since i really like to make carnos puke and track them down xD

[visual merlin]

Why dose the Trike have a bit force of 900 now like that the heck how is that far to anything now

I guess if you are a trike and whatever you can't die and you just do what ever you want to say this is ballence but it's not now
Like I understand it's big and it's a apex but still 900 bite force you and then it can just flip a stego like it's paper when it standing still this need to be fixed like come on I know that it's like pick your fight's but like trike is to strong now should of keep it at 600 bitefore and not 900 that dose not even make any sense

[steep gazelle]

I haven't tested it yet, but they're saying that Cerato can't be stunned by a Carno when close to a body, even if it's a light body like a Cerato xd

Aaah... More Cerato buffs, why not?

[golden coral]

Trike apex, trike powerful

[visual merlin]

I know but the stego and the Denio can't do anything to it how is that far

[dusky surge]

how is it not? both can easily avoid a trike

stego lessso but still

[golden coral]

Stego and deino are not apexes, they're far "weaker" in power

[golden coral]

It can still run just fine, just be a bit more wary and mind funky hitboxes I guess

[dusky surge]

i feel like against trike, the "stego should just run" argument is fine, but its this kind of thing that makes me worry about rex

[mint star]

deino players even THINKING about trying to square up to a trike deserve to be gored to death in seconds

[golden coral]

I think it's the more boring choice, but its what it is. We'll see how it works out in the long term.

[visual merlin]

Yes they are lurn your stuff before you say something to me

[livid spindle]

Triceratops didn't actually have much advantage over deino before strengthening, but it can really crush deino easily this time.

[golden coral]

Even if they are apexes, they're still far weaker in power, and meant to be so

They're not on the same level as rex and trike

They're on the low end of apex, if they're considered such, and not meant to contest anything larger it would seem

[livid spindle]

When Triceratops was still 600 attack power, it would actually be seriously injured by deino and killed by two Deinos.

[visual merlin]

And now trike can one tap and stego

How is that fair

[livid spindle]

Now, not only does it have 900 attack power, but it also has a 3000 damage attack, and the target that falls to the ground can even reach 4500. You can kill it directly after knocking down stego.

[golden coral]

I don't think it's meant to be "fair". And stego and deino can avoid rex and trike. Just run in good time, or well, stay in water, and you're good to go

[livid spindle]

900 attack power is enough, why is there such outrageous damage?

[golden coral]

I'm guessing cause of rex, and other apexes

[livid spindle]

Now stego will die as soon as he is hit by Triceratops.

[ashen narwhal]

i understand fixing stam drain... but completely remove it ? if a carno has 3 raptors on it it should be losing stam. atleast while walking. carying 1.5 tons isnt tiring ? ah sigh

[dusky surge]

If it has 3 raptors on it, carno is pinned lol

[golden coral]

Yes, so keep your distance and run away

[ashen narwhal]

ok so 2 you get the point

[golden coral]

Pretty sure carno can't run at that point, it'd be slowed

[livid spindle]

But stamina has punishment. When it is below a certain level, you have to sit down to restore it.

[ashen narwhal]

ok how about a trike or dteg or deino... you guys need everything to be way over explained...

[ashen narwhal]

and if you have an animal on you its weight is supported by you

[livid spindle]

If it is to be so real, then the actual situation should be that once carno bites Omni, it can overwhelm it.

[golden coral]

Why would you hunt a deino unless you find it far inland. In which case, you can just harass it until it dehydrates most likely. Or just pounce it and damage it, not like it can run very far, very fast, without being out of stam by doing so. As for trike, well... it's an apex, it's going to be rough to take down. I guess lots of pouncing, lots of time. Put it at wounded, and make it waste stam by baiting, and you might be able to grapple it in the end, or just outright kill it eventually. It's also not a playable that will get anywhere anytime soon after all.

[livid spindle]

Obviously, bigger animals will be better at doing this.

[golden coral]

But it could also be that this current "fix" is temporary, for all we know they might readd the drain

[livid spindle]

900 attack power is not outrageous. What is outrageous is that there is an attack mode that can cause 3000~4500 damage.

[obsidian yacht]

mhm

anf i feel like its maybe a misinput or oversight

[livid spindle]

According to the past experience, they like this drastic change very much, and they have also differentiated the knockout target. I think it should be intentional.

[steep gazelle]

I love how many unnecessary changes the devs make xd

[obsidian yacht]

skill issue i think

[steep gazelle]

🤨

[livid spindle]

When many people think that cera is better than carno, there are still many carno players who can beat cera. It seems that they will further deprive this possibility now.

[obsidian yacht]

I mean you are charging something with its giant maw open head on.

[golden coral]

?

[obsidian yacht]

and it has a defensive buff

[livid spindle]

Like deino and stego, deino once won, but somehow they thought deino just shouldn't beat stego.

[steep gazelle]

Cerato has immunity to charge when near a body, even if it is a light body.

[obsidian yacht]

i dont think a super light body will give that much of a buff

[livid spindle]

Well, I seem to have seen this situation before. cera was attacked at will by dillo while eating the corpse, but it was not harmed or poisoned. cera could do some magic.

[steep gazelle]

a cerato's body will already give this immunity. So now, one of the only ones who could face the cerato and clean their server, simply can't anymore xd

[livid spindle]

Just being close to the corpse can make such a big change in cera's biological state. The island is really a magical place.

This is not like a creature.

[obsidian yacht]

me when that's only a temporary roster issue that shouldn't be permanantly balanced around

[golden coral]

Ah. You sure this is intentionall, and not a bug? They did mention stability changes, I think? Could have to do with that, god knows things can go weird when the game goes from testing to live.

[golden coral]

Yep, deino does not hunt stego unless stego swimming. Stego does not fight trike or rex, unless maybe subs. Just how it goes. Deino does not hunt trike or rex either unless no larger than stego ones.

[steep gazelle]

They said stability was fixed in the patch note, now charge bite and body stability add up

the speed reduction nerf takes 6s to happen, with the cerato reaching maximum damage in 2s, but this must be a bug

[golden coral]

Yes, but things can sometimes get weird when patch goes live, so could just be something like that

Most likely a bug, or someone put in the opposite of what they meant to do or some such xD

[steep gazelle]

Cerato now has 350 damage completely without any consequences, an even more spammable charge bite

I really hope the immunity to the carno charge is a bug

[livid spindle]

This should be the reason why it can kill Triceratops. If the damage is not so high, the risk in the process should be greater.

[livid spindle]

Don't 8 tons of deino have power? Or should I say, the 6-ton stego is more powerful.

[golden coral]

It does, but it's designed to grab and drown, not "fight"

[livid spindle]

According to some last clips, in fact, Rex didn't take advantage of Stego in melee. Rex looked taller than Stego, but he was easily killed by Stego.

[golden coral]

Whereas stego is well, glass cannon, sort of

[golden coral]

The rex missed its attacks, got stunned by the powerswing cause it wasnt more than like 75% grown, and then still took a fair few hits to kill. And may have been wounded before hand too, I've heard various accounts on that clip.

You see how trike handles stego, no reason to think rex won't do the same if it can handle trike

[livid spindle]

But it looks big enough. If you show this clip to others, who will they think is better, Rex or Stego?

I saw how cera handled Triceratops, so I can know that Rex should not be too far away.

[true ginkgo]

I don’t mind stego getting reworked into an apex or a proper mid tier.

But it’s current position is horrendous

[livid spindle]

Don't you think it's strange to have that big mouth and be able to drag prey, but not to fight? Unless he is a vegetarian.

[golden coral]

Right, but that clip doesn't show rex set up properly, and with a not at all grown rex. So it doesn't really say much, if you think about it.

[golden coral]

Sort of, but not really. Cause if you could just bite stuff, why drown it?

[true ginkgo]

It’s going to be one tapping anything up to and including allo and alberto (maybe sucho) on a headshot.

While also being complete fodder for acro, rex, giga, and spoon.

[golden coral]

The power is in the grab, not in the bite as damage

[golden coral]

You can run away, or so we get told

So not fodder

[true ginkgo]

Doesn’t solve stego one tapping any carni brlow it

[dusky surge]

Why would that need solving

Doesn’t trike now do the exact same thing

[true ginkgo]

It essentially sits outside the roster. Nothing below it can fight it. It can’t fight anything above it

[true ginkgo]

Trike will at least have acro, giga, rex, and spino as competitors

[livid spindle]

Triceratops is the real apex, which can bully Stego, but it will die of smaller animals, and for those animals, Stego is more difficult than Triceratops.

[true ginkgo]

The is a huge gap between carni mids and apexes.

And due to stego being in that spot, there is nothing in the roster which it can actually have an enjoyable combat with

[golden coral]

Well no, but I guess they can run away in turn

[golden coral]

Well, maybe so, if it works out that way

[true ginkgo]

So you have an animal designed for fighting which can never fight

[golden coral]

Kind of, yes

And only really has one good attack, which in turn is reliant on a mutation to work out

[true ginkgo]

You’re proving my point, stego is a psuedo apex in a game with no psuedo apex land carnis

[livid spindle]

But Triceratops is more likely to die from the attack of small animals than Stego. Should the vertex be like this?

[true ginkgo]

There is nothing in the entire planned roster which can actually give stego a good fight.

[golden coral]

Is it? I'll wait and see when trike players are actually good with their playable, to see how much better stego performs vs those small animals compared to a trike that actually knows how to trike

As for should it be, well yes, stego does make more sense to be good vs smaller playables than trike, better vs speedy and agile things than trike would be

[livid spindle]

Another problem with Triceratops is that it is easy to touch the keys by mistake.

[golden coral]

At least for current stego, but it could be adjusted, if the will was there

[livid spindle]

According to my observation, Rex launched a charge in the distance and suppressed the hit target (and the speed seems to be quite good in the process), but it seems that he has no such ability in the near distance, and he will be defeated by stego at close range, just like the Triceratops attacked by 600. If he fights with Stego at close range, he will also be killed. Stego has high damage at close range, and the attack speed is fast, but now Stego's damage is so high, and it can knock down the target, so the future allo, a dinosaur that is supposed to prey on Stego, will die once it is hit.

Just like young stego facing cera, he looks about the same size, but one attack stuns cera, and another attack kills cera.

It seems that you have to be bigger than Stego, or small enough but flexible. It is possible that carnivores who are not big enough but not flexible enough are not good at fighting Stego.

Well ... many people have seen Triceratops easily killed by cera, which makes me doubt Triceratops. However, when I first used Triceratops, although I didn't perform well, I managed to repel at least three cera, but I was also seriously injured.

I think the battle of cera should be more difficult, not so easy to hurt healthy adult triceratops. As mentioned earlier, cera is flexible and easy to cause 350 damage, which is actually equivalent to the damage level of more advanced carnivores, so it can hurt Triceratops so quickly.

On the other hand, if we can see how badly an animal is injured from the outside, perhaps it should be the target for carnivores.

[onyx lichen]

@steep gazelle #balance-feedback message Why?

Cerato is suppose to be hard to push away from a Corpse, allowing it to be stunned/staggered just ruins the whole point of it if its from something its size

[steep gazelle]

I already told you in #general-feedback-discussion

[onyx lichen]

You are suggesting that they make Cerato a worst corpse bully

[steep gazelle]

Yes and no, just a more enjoyable fight for Carno and a fairer fight with Tenonto, instead of not being able to stun something 1.3t and not being able to defend yourself properly (Tenonto)

[onyx lichen]

The Carno is understandable but not Teno

[steep gazelle]

Cerato will still defend incredibly well against Allo and Sub rex

[onyx lichen]

Like why should a Teno be able to stun a Cerato when near a corpse?

[steep gazelle]

They both run at the same speed and what allows Tenonto to kill Cerato is Stun

[onyx lichen]

Teno is .1 faster

Teno is also faster at swimming

[steep gazelle]

Very high number

[onyx lichen]

If a Teno wants to fight a Cerato then go ahead, if they decide to do it while its near a corpse then that's honestly a dumb thing to do

A Teno has no reason to fight a Cerato on a corpse

[steep gazelle]

I agree, but the stability of the charge bite already fulfills its role now of making Tenonto not stun him with the kicks and only with the tail slam

[onyx lichen]

Not everything has to be a fight to the death

Survival is about surviving, if a Cerato is fighting you then you can easily escape

[steep gazelle]

Maybe. But certain fights must have a balance, Cerato does not need to be immune to Tenonto stun because he already has damage reduction.

Both from the close body and from the congenital

Cerato will still have the advantage, but Tenonto will not be left behind

[onyx lichen]

This is survival, balance should not be solely based off fights, if it was then imagine Dryo getting changes to fight an Omni

[livid spindle]

Speaking of Dryo, I wonder what advantages Dryo has over Gallimimus?

[steep gazelle]

This is a game after all, think about the players enjoyment too. Well, that's a bad example. Dryo is 3x lighter, Cerato is only 19% lighter.

[onyx lichen]

Dodge and acceleration

[livid spindle]

So if you had to choose, would you play Dryo or Gallimimus?

[onyx lichen]

Dryo because the dodge is fun to use, you can do instant U-Turns with no downside

But Gali can eat eggs

[livid spindle]

I haven't seen such an interesting dinosaur in the game for a long time.

[onyx lichen]

Fair, but do you think it would be fun for a Corpse Bully to get stunned by something its own size while defending a corpse

[livid spindle]

Protect the corpse, so if the herbivore finds a good position to defend, and the corpse appears at this time, then the herbivore will either stick to it here or leave and go to the unfavorable terrain.

So I don't think cera should have this mechanism to get buff near the body at all.

[onyx lichen]

Cerato is intended to steal corpses from other Carnivores

[livid spindle]

Or when Rex killed Triceratops, the injured Rex was driven away by cera?

[onyx lichen]

I doubt it, Rex can just pin it

[livid spindle]

Cera did smell far away. Once I couldn't eat because of a BUG and went to the log. When I came back, cera was already eating. Fortunately, the animals that have just been killed will not be smelled now.

[livid spindle]

So think about what cera is doing to Triceratops now.

[onyx lichen]

Trike was recently buffed so it can easily 2 shot a Cerato

[livid spindle]

The problem is not the attack, but the hit, otherwise even the previous Triceratops can easily kill cera.

[onyx lichen]

The reason Cerato got damage resistance from a corpse was because it was getting bullied too easily in the 6.5 Horde Test

The Damage resistance on the HT was holy massive

[livid spindle]

If this is interpreted as adrenaline, then I think most carnivores can do it. You may be able to attack faster or more quickly, but can your skin become harder just because you are angry, or can you avoid death without fear of pain?

Cera now seems to be an active predator hunting large herbivores rather than a scavenger, because there are obviously no more powerful carnivores now, and when there are no lions, hyenas can only hunt by themselves.

[onyx lichen]

Nah, that's just Cerato being very aggressive around food

[onyx lichen]

The recent changes it got nerfed hunting but buffed the defensive playstyle

[livid spindle]

Then we need bigger carnivores to join in, so we can know.

On the other hand, is carno growing at the same speed as cera now?

[onyx lichen]

Yep

Although it does reach Sub at 700KG instead of 650KG

[onyx lichen]

Cerato is intended to be able to fight against larger threats with a corpse

[keen plover]

how is the hunting nerfed?

[onyx lichen]

Speed penalty made it harder to chase

And its easier to hit a slower target

[keen plover]

You do realise you can avoid the speed penalty by not holding charge for too long right.

[onyx lichen]

Yeah, I pointed it out a while ago

[keen plover]

so how is it nerfed?

If anything Cerato is much better at hunting things

While also being much better defensively

[onyx lichen]

Ah, now I see what you mean

The changes for it are a step in the right direction though which is nice

If the charge bite speed was instant and increased sprinting cost instead of passively draining stamina then it would be an actual hunting nerf

I almost got killed from the passive stamina drain while playing defensively

[elfin night]

Why make ptera an eagle 😭

@soft mantle bruh stego only performs well against every carnivore rn because none of them are built to take on something like that

And trike was painfully mid dealing with things like deino (and likely rex) for a 10 hour growth apex before it got a damage buff

[onyx lichen]

I thought about it more and yeah, gonna agree to that

[elfin night]

Stego is gonna get rolled by every other apex unless they buff or rework it

It just felt overpowered because the biggest concern it has are either ceras or deinos who are also balanced around a smaller roster

[onyx lichen]

Be in a herd?

[elfin night]

Invalid argument for game balancing

I always account for solo

[dusky surge]

Also stego sucks in herds which is a bonus

[elfin night]

Correct

[trail merlin]

after these changes stego finally looks like a mid tier dino

[dusky surge]

Which it shouldn’t be lol

Allo is a midtier, stego should not be an allo equivalent lol

[elfin night]

Like, come on man

10% stam for an attack that is inferior to a stam free move from the thing that has 3500 more hp and a 75% damage reduction shield on the face

If rex has to be balanced around trike, then stego is gonna get rolled by rex too

And every other higher end apex for that matter

[onyx lichen]

@blazing sedge Deino has the slowest hunger drain

[trail merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/allosaurus-stegosaurus-jurassic-fight-stomp-gif-17288578

[dusky surge]

Badly animated history channel clips will not change my mind

Stego is over twice its size

[trail merlin]

anyways good stego changes keep it up (certified stego hater)

[dusky surge]

Revenge balancing, got it lol

Glad to know we shouldn’t take it seriously

[slim dragon]

Notice how that stego was already stuck in the mud and completely incapable of moving when the allo came around

[elfin night]

Also in regards to this, I do not think that stego should have anything close to a 50/50 matchup against a trike

It’s just not fair and for the most part you can simply avoid them unless they’re sub trikes which gets far more annoying

[slim dragon]

Stego doesn't need to have a fair fight against trike
But trike oneshotting it is a bit much

[elfin night]

Agreed

Especially when it can knock it down and it’s so hard to get around a trike when they can drift+spar and you can’t

[thorn mountain]

thats Jurassic fight club the least accurate thing ever

[dusky surge]

Thought so lol

[blazing sedge]

How long has he been starving?

[soft mantle]

then u didnt see stego destroying a rex when devs came to ht servers

stego is fine as it is, people just mad he finally gets destroyed by smth it should destroy him, trike thrash does do way more damage than it should tho

[elfin night]

Lmao

I saw that clip dude

It’s not a fg rex (they said so) and then it barely attacked as it just walked into the tail swings

[edgy moon]

I mean, trikes & steggo's really shouldn't be fighting in the first place

[elfin night]

Any mildly competent fg rex is gonna give ZERO chance to stego

Saying otherwise is clueless

[soft mantle]

let's see

[elfin night]

I will share the clip right now

[soft mantle]

ppl are saying to buff stego before things that can hunt it are out is just crying imo

[dusky surge]

What, the sub-Rex? Yea I saw it. Didn’t really prove much though

[soft mantle]

stego has to be rolled by a rex on a 1v1

unless the stego doesn't get ambushed

then depends on who dodges/misses first

saying stego should 1v1 a rex or a trike is stupid

[elfin night]

Missed opening attack, gets stunned (=not close to fg), and then proceeds to never attack and run into all the tail swing

A fg rex is just gonna either do the 3k damage crush move or simply headbutt it to stun/knock over and have an easier time destroying it

[soft mantle]

then don't be alone, u are a herbi, u are supposed to herd

but people just want to 1v1s like it's a duel of cowboys

[edgy moon]

approach herbi as herbi: get ganked by that herbi

[elfin night]

How does that logic even follow??

[soft mantle]

also u can just get ur face against a rock and tailswing giving no head opening for a rex to headshot

[elfin night]

How does being a plant eater equate to being forced into a group no matter what?

[soft mantle]

cuz it's realistic?

[edgy moon]

....they do move in herds

[soft mantle]

and u want to win 1v1 vs an animal 4t+ than u?

[thorn mountain]

hmm yes lets balance dinos to be in herds LETS SEE HOW THAT WORKS pachy..

[elfin night]

Also “just group up bro” is the most low iq argument in regards to balance someone would ever use

[soft mantle]

unless u time ur tailswing right and headshot the rex when it comes at u

u will lose as it should be

[elfin night]

Yeah man, it’s so realistic that all herbivores are inherently here animals

I could think of like 10 herbivores in less than 30 seconds that make your entire argument false 😭

[soft mantle]

i could think of 100

so u must have a brain smaller than ur stego head

[elfin night]

Very ineffective ragebait

[elfin night]

Again

1. No, you eating green doesn’t mean you’re inherently a herd animal

2. “Just group up bro” is a terrible balancing argument

[soft mantle]

true, cuz it wasn't a clean 1v1, but it proves my point of stego being able to do enough damage to kill or fend off a rex, which is what should be possible unless the rex fights to the death

[elfin night]

No it doesn’t prove your point

Because a normal adult rex won’t get stunned or die in 4 swings

How does stego killing a subadult somehow prove it performs well against rex?

[edgy moon]

wtf are you talking about?

[elfin night]

Aren’t you defending that?

[soft mantle]

u are so lost in ur rage, that i won't even lose my time, i gave my case, u are impossible to learn something with in a conversation

[edgy moon]

No, I just like making pop-culture references at inopportune times

[elfin night]

2/10 bait

[elfin night]

I see

[soft mantle]

these types of comments make me think i could be your dad, such immaturity, have fun with your "all herbies are not herd animals"

[elfin night]

“Stego killing subadult rex that doesn’t attack = Stego can fend off an adult rex”

“Ur a herbi, just group up to patch any balance issues instead of asking the devs to make it decent alone”

[elfin night]

I will

[dusky surge]

realistically, people aren't going to play an animal that's just worse than every other option because everything else can survive without a herd

case in point, no one plays pachy, because pachy is reliant on herds

and pachy is barely even CLOSE to the growth time of stego, and its sub stage is SO MUCH better than a sub stego in terms of viability

[soft mantle]

people play tons of carnivores, and we all know who's been at the top for a year or something, so people play what they want, not what is "meta" as u said

[keen plover]

If stego can reliably escape it's fine. I'm not opposed to a stego outrunning a rex

[dusky surge]

^

[keen plover]

But if it can't escape or fight then yeah it's bad

[dusky surge]

thats fine idc

it might look stupid but if its what has to be done, do it

[keen plover]

Idc for realism since if we're using that fact Carno would dog walk the vast majority of these animals

[dusky surge]

cerato

like imma be real people play the meta, and the meta is cerato

[slim dragon]

There isn't a single carnivore in this game who needs a group to survive
Not even troodon

[dusky surge]

insane mutation synergies, easy to sustain, both offensively and defensively powerful, all-round stats with no clear downside, insane bleed res so on

like imma be real, the meta argument is just wrong when cerato proves the meta is alive and well

[soft mantle]

a cera needs a group to survive, if u alone and 2 ceras decide u are their next meal u are dead, same as any other carnivore of same species if they want to kill u

the more the better

[edgy moon]

what?

[soft mantle]

same for herbies

[dusky surge]

but that's cannibalism and even then, you can arguably survive that since they can't outrun you

[soft mantle]

they can outrun u

[dusky surge]

accounting for cannibalism in these arguments is bizarre tbh

[dusky surge]

they are quite literally the same speed

[soft mantle]

one full stam runs with u and the other goes walking 60%+

[elfin night]

If they are all grown in that scenario, then you will simply outpace them if you have a good headstart

[soft mantle]

and then catches up to u while u cant regen cuz the other just walks w u

[cosmic pelican]

As a solo player I always get mud for that exact reason so they cant track me

[elfin night]

You don’t need a group to survive

[dusky surge]

^

[cosmic pelican]

Makes it laughably easy to survive attacks like that

[dusky surge]

you have tools to prevent death

[soft mantle]

u clearly don't use pack tactics if u think a solo can outrun 2 or more

[edgy moon]

If you let 2 cannis get close enough to run you down you already made at least one fatal error

[soft mantle]

they dont need to track u, they can see u

[dusky surge]

if you stand in the plains your entire life sure

[cosmic pelican]

Run into a forest and lose line of sight

[soft mantle]

there's rain, there's fog, there's the everdark nights

[dusky surge]

but thats 95% of this community so

[soft mantle]

u seem like u only afk in those times by saying u cant come up close to a pack

[elfin night]

Cera or any playable for that matter can just evade cannis if they see them coming and even have a tiny advantage since they’re equally fast

But stego is likely going to get ran down, walked down and then beaten up by a fg rex that actually uses its attack buttons

[edgy moon]

Deino's can't see anything coming at the moment, to be fair

[soft mantle]

u are running the footsteps can be heard from far

[slim dragon]

If cera needs a group to survive, then everything does
Back to square one, why should stego need a group EVEN MORE than everything else despite having proof it's a bad thing ?

[keen plover]

Always be on full stam when solo with speed mutation. Even with pack tactics, they need to close the distance initially to run you down. They are unlikely to also have full stam

[elfin night]

No “pack tactics” will ever change the stats in a game

Fg cera will always escape an army of fg ceras if it has a good headstart

[soft mantle]

why should they not have full stam like u?

[edgy moon]

because if you let them walk up to you that's 100% on you

[soft mantle]

if it doesn't get close enough to them sure, but im saying in case u are at a close distance

[keen plover]

That would imply you allowed ceratos to trot up to you or ambush.

[soft mantle]

im gonna give an example to clarify

im talking cera but could be any other

[elfin night]

Define close. Unless you mess up, you won’t get caught since you are ahead already

[slim dragon]

Why is cannibalism even an argument when talking about inter-species argument

[elfin night]

He said that ceras need a group to survive because allegedly they get ran down by cannis

[soft mantle]

the argument i gave is, every species benefits from packing, the more the better as i said

[slim dragon]

Cera to does not need a group to survive against anything but more ceratos. Same applies to every carnivore, every omnivore and every herbivore except pachy.
Why should stego be an exception ?

[soft mantle]

but they said a carnivore can survive solo, which i agree but it still survives with way higher chance until adult and way more time as an adult with more hunt opportunities as a pack

[slim dragon]

Benefitting from packs is a thing, but that's not what you were arguing for

Needing a group to have a chance at survival is a different thing

[elfin night]

You were unironically using “just here bro” as an argument to justify stego standing no chance against rex

As it cannot even escape one from any distance

[edgy moon]

There's barely enough food to sustain 1 deino in any given habitat, grouping is simply not viable

[soft mantle]

exactly, it can survive, but in a dire situation it will die cuz it has no more stats, so if the whole purpose of this conversation is who can survive better with more chance of going full adult/elder and until death

the people with a pack/herd will do better

[dusky surge]

doing better is fine

NEEDING a herd is a different story

[soft mantle]

saying it can survive, i agree, saying it always survives every situation, i don't

cuz it will eventually happen

third party, ambushing, faster predators/herbies that want to hunt/kill u

every dino needs to deal with this

skill and luck help but sometimes it's not enough, as we all know, it rains 24/7 so noise is muffled, fog so u cant see at a certain distance, when the night becomes really dark, even carnivores can't see that far

[dusky surge]

okay but it should statistically be able to survive on its own merit without an animal existing that is both faster and stronger than it

[soft mantle]

bro, deino is our fallen brother, there's nothing that can save him so he can survive apart from devs giving it the care he needs

[edgy moon]

Fix the map.

[slim dragon]

The map is not deino's problem

[soft mantle]

i actually started liking and appreciating the deino playstyle just when they launched the patch

[edgy moon]

enlighten me

[soft mantle]

yes

[soft mantle]

but i have a question for u then, will every dino not have a stronger and faster dino than them?

[dusky surge]

ideally, no

in the case of carno, most animals have a way away from it, such as carno's godawful agility

[soft mantle]

but currently there's some cases that do have that

[dusky surge]

get into a forest and carno's not doing much

or water

or on a rock

[edgy moon]

Yes please!!! 🐊

[soft mantle]

troodon vs raptor, u could say troodon can go to sanctuary and escape and i would say makes sense, but that is limiting although im fine with it

[slim dragon]

Its own design is deino's problem

[dusky surge]

troodon is honestly extremely easy because it has the advantage of stealth

you can lose things in tall grass, bushes, any form of underbrush

advantage of its size

[soft mantle]

wat about pachy vs carno?

[cosmic pelican]

Are you implying troodon dies the moment its spotted by an omni? What

[dusky surge]

oh pachy is trash

[soft mantle]

i would say the only escape is finding a jumpable only spot

[dusky surge]

honestly there's no excuse for that, that's exactly what i dont want for stego v rex

[soft mantle]

fair

[dusky surge]

because pachy is complete garbage without a herd and dies

[slim dragon]

There's a simple rule in this game
If you can't fight it, you can get away from it
If you can't get away from it,you can fight it
This rule should apply to everything

[soft mantle]

troodon being escapable from raptors, is debatable to me, i agree it can stealth easier but if it is seen, hiding isn't always possible especially if the raptor has good headset imo

i would argue the same for carno vs dilo if dilo venom wasn't so broken lol

dilo would have no way of fighting or escaping

but i guess it just needs some rework to be more dynamic

[thorn mountain]

the jungle

[soft mantle]

It should...

[soft mantle]

how, when ur steps are louder than theirs and heavier dinos

[thorn mountain]

agility pretty much. jungle favors dilo more than carno

[soft mantle]

nope

[slim dragon]

Including stego and rex

[soft mantle]

people who say dilo is more agile, don't know what drift is

[soft mantle]

ofc, i only said that a stego should have skill or good position so it can fend it off or kill it, 1 mistake capitalized by the rex and stego should be dead and vice-versa or at least rex has to run just cuz it has way more hp

[icy blaze]

Like someone said to me before frolo is the i-disagree-with-every-opinion-bot.
Doesnt make sense disgussing with them. Spare your time lol.

[soft mantle]

carno with drift is impossible to escape even for raptors unless they have a only jumpable spot

[soft mantle]

ahahaha, thanks for the warning bro

[icy blaze]

Yw

[keen plover]

Hydrodynamic troodon is goated. Perfect escape tool vs a lot of omni's. It already swims fast but with that mutation you outswim base cerato and teno. I've used it to bait ceratos to swim after me and waste stam.

[thorn mountain]

hydro my favorite mutation

[soft mantle]

although i agree, there certainly rn are some that need a pack/herd to survive certain dinos so i would argue if they exist like that rn then devs will probably create more situations like that since they left the ones we have now like that for ages

[cosmic pelican]

Thats unconventional to say the least, but respectable

[thorn mountain]

actually underrated I cant lie

[keen plover]

hehe but it works!! troodon has good swim stam as well

[dusky surge]

aqua troo is a super underrated build

[soft mantle]

same bro, since the NE plains were the hotspot i played a lot of troodon and nested in that hidden/bugged rock cave crevice and i used that

[keen plover]

it's a guaranteed escape. Every troodon should take it if they're a gen 2. I take it all the time on my gen 1 troodon though

[soft mantle]

imo, troodon should only get its dismount animation speed faster and maybe get it's victim's fog removed and is perfec

[keen plover]

I think it should increase the run time drain of a creature when fully envenomated.

But the fog is nice imo. It has minor issues but overall I'm happy it exists for troodon

Dismount is rough yeah

needs work

[soft mantle]

trike seems fine, apart from being able to oneshot stego imo

[soft mantle]

i'd like the effect of stam comsumption for the victim being increased actually, so i agree, the fog seems to much but oh well

i think i would switch one for other

[slim dragon]

Only pachy

The more dinos there are in this situation the worse the game gets

[soft mantle]

i agree

[true ginkgo]

Even if you think stego getting one tapped by trike is a good thing, the current values means that a flip+headshot thrash will instikill a full grown rex.

some dude can spend 9 hours growing a rex to 100%, and lose it in a single second

[trail merlin]

little feed back on the fixed hitboxes

[obsidian yacht]

I mean... Not nearly as bad as it was. I think the biggest issue is just the fact that tail hits can kill something still

[soft mantle]

desync issues not hitbox

[steep otter]

Iam sure if trike turn out to be way to stronger then rex they will chamge it

900 bite force is a good number

[tardy wind]

That isnt true. Rex will likely only have 1.5x headshot multiplier (like most playables), while stego is an exception with a 2x multiplier.

Still, Rex will take roughly 3900 damage with the knockdown thrash combo, which is absurd in itself...

[steep otter]

Tbh, not that bad now that u put it that way, we know rex by itself will have a 3000 damage atack that it can land on trike

[cosmic pelican]

Thrash on knocked down targets does 6k total with a 1x multiplier

Its 9k with a headshot multiplier of 1.5x

[waxen lance]

do people know that in 4:18 seconds trike heals to full health (no diet, no mutations) while sitting while in the same time stego only heals to ~20% : )

[tardy wind]

I don't think that's true. To my knowledge its 1500 by default, with 2x multiplier on knocked-down targets (making it 3000 total)

[cosmic pelican]

Thrash has 2 ticks of damage, both deal 3k to targets who are knocked down, and 2k to those who arent

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1155973027322933248/1388186914376650832/image.png?ex=6860ba0f&is=685f688f&hm=a09a6cb1eda5590a04425d7e91963ed9a5c6c258f0fc3d12be296a1466f5c718&

Look at "Damage ThrashKnockdown"

[tardy wind]

Just tested it ingame, I'm correct it deals approx 3000 damage with a full no-knockdown thrash.

It takes stego to EXACTLY 50% hp. Fyi, I also believe the devs are known for putting false stats in the files

[steep otter]

Massive damage

[steep otter]

Make so trash hits for 1000 per hit and 2000 per hit on knock down targets and its fine, still is 4000 damage on a knock down targed witch is decent

The other values for me are no problem

Engage is the sparring headbut right?

[regal valve]

Normal trash should do low damage tbh, it punishes players who mindlessly spam left button, and it should also only be used with knocked down enemies

[true ginkgo]

thrash applies its damage twice apparently. So a value of 3k bodyshot on a downed target is actually 6k.

[true ginkgo]

huh that's odd.

a stego got one shotted while standing with the trikes thrash on the head.

which only works if the damage is applied twice

@brisk quest was it your stego which got one shotted from standing?

[brisk quest]

Correct, was testing with a friend and he walked up to my head as a trike and used trash, I took damage twice (as trash normally does) with the second hit killing me

Extra info: Two hits of 2k damage on stego’s head results in 8k damage over two instances of damage, exactly what happened to me

Both FG

[brisk quest]

Are you sure you didn’t get a leg hit on accident?
Leg hits deal leas damage and with how big stego’s back legs are you might’ve gotten leg hits

Which would explain the 50% hp as two hits of 2k damage with the 0,75x damage multiplier of the legs results in 3k damage

[keen plover]

Excuse me

[waxen lance]

with diet trike is 3:30 and steg is 8:30 : )

perfect diet

[keen plover]

From what health. Like 10% to full or

[waxen lance]

1%

[waxen lance]

8:30 for steg sorry

[keen plover]

And all you’re doing is setting your health in panel correct

[waxen lance]

yes

setting in panel, sitting and waiting

no mutations, perfect diet

[keen plover]

Bruh whenever I test it, it takes forever

Interesting though

[waxen lance]

yeah its ridiculous

[regal valve]

Fair and Balanced, Nerf Pachy

[waxen lance]

trike having an extra 3,500 hp and heals over 2x faster than steg

[waxen lance]

LOL

[steep gazelle]

I think he has even better regeneration

I recovered from a yellow screen completely just by standing still in a few minutes (Not resting)

[waxen lance]

its ~3:30 from 1-100% for trike and ~8:30 from 1-100% for steg

yeah its insane

[steep gazelle]

And Carno with 30 minutes for 1-100% health, this is pretty funny

The isle...

[waxen lance]

the isle!!

dibble is also ~13:30 for 1-100

tested all with perfect diet btw

[steep gazelle]

The only carnivores that are good to play now are Cerato and Dilo

[steep otter]

Stego regen needs buffing

[waxen lance]

im fine with stego being longer but trike needs it nerfed

trike should be at the very least 10 mins, 15-20 if its gonna be realistic

[steep otter]

Maia also has a very good regen time

[hidden kettle]

OOOOWWWWAAAAAA
dont think so 😄

[steep otter]

Tbh id give all dinos the same time

[waxen lance]

yeah maia is ~4:40 from 1-100 perfect diet

dibble is ~13:30 which is kinda absurd

[steep gazelle]

Troodon suffers from desync, Omni was heavily nerfed and is even more bugged, Deino doesn't survive, Herrera's jump is bugged, Ptera doesn't know how to fly properly. Well, then it's just these 2

[steep otter]

Yeah dibble is also way to long

[waxen lance]

if dibble is gonna be that long trike should be 15-20 mins

[steep gazelle]

I don't even need to mention Carno xd

[steep otter]

Nah just buff dibble healing

[waxen lance]

trike needs a nerf also

[steep otter]

Only on trash damage

The rest is 100% fine

[waxen lance]

no its not, 3:30 is NOT okay for a 9.5 ton animal

thrash needs a nerf yes but so does the heal

[steep otter]

Let trash deal 4k to down targets and 2k to above

[steep gazelle]

Trike recovery is too high, you can recover from a yellow screen while standing still in a few minutes

[waxen lance]

yeah exactly

[steep otter]

All dinos should regen at 5min

[waxen lance]

ur trolling lol

[tardy wind]

Im sorry, what

[steep otter]

Longer fights are more fun

[waxen lance]

no thanks

[tardy wind]

What does that have to do with longer fights

[steep otter]

Stand offs

Removing gastronomic and buffing universal healing would be the way to go

[tardy wind]

So you want any pack hunter to just have zero possible chance at killing something large?

[steep otter]

Much better them having a med kit on a corpse/plant

[steep otter]

Bleed does not heal that quick

[waxen lance]

we all agree gastro needs to go

[tardy wind]

Only Omni (and possibly allo) will deal in bleed

[steep otter]

Giga too

Id rather see omni damage pounce me less used and bleed pounce be buffed

[tardy wind]

Giga is an apex, we're talking about pack hunters

[steep otter]

Troodon can still kill stuff with raw damage

[tardy wind]

Agreed, but again Omni is one of many pack hunters

[steep otter]

Same with dillo

[tardy wind]

We're talking about the majority here

[waxen lance]

this is something i agree with but healing does not need to be standardized

[tardy wind]

??

Dilo is a damage dealer, bleed isnt its killing tool

[thorn mountain]

we live in a isle.

[waxen lance]

we cannot survive the isle

[slim dragon]

Everything healing in 5 minutes is ridiculous
That means 2:30 minutes to heal after most fights (50% hp)

It means you'll get full hp before your stamina is back to full

on anything

[hidden kettle]

well troodon still is fun and the 100dmg pounce and ground fog is nice tho.
Omni wasnt really nerfed. There was a bug with omni stealing way too much stam on pounce like a juvie could outstam a fg trike thats walking in nearly a single stam bar 😄
cant say much for herra since i play that too rare.. still see lots of ptera fly around that look fine to me ( once again far from ptera main )
Carno is pretty fine if it hunts stuff smaller than itself like omni,dilo and so on.
Dilo is in a pathetic good spot still 😄

Just to clarify not protecting cera balance by any means now just wanna say all of these have their spot.

Sure theres some problems as always to everything a bit.

[hidden kettle]

ye should take longer in general. Also gastro still is way too big of a deal imo. should be a mutation only for small dinos up to 400kg.. imo at least

[slim dragon]

Gastro should be a mutation only for cringe unofficial servers

[waxen lance]

they really need to start making mutations like congenital exclusive to dinos 2 tons and under

[slim dragon]

Or straight up remove them

[waxen lance]

yeah

[slim dragon]

Because it's still unfair against other dinos under 2 tons

[waxen lance]

if they dont remove them they need to give them limitations

ur completely right yeah

[steep otter]

It can spam clones, pretty much does not care abour healing

[waxen lance]

all the damage/defensive mutations are just major problems

[hidden kettle]

even better!
Its a shame sicne as a Carnivore you are already forced to take it since everyone got it atm.. i would be fine if that mutation get a rework/heavy nerf or be only avaiable for smaller creatures that doesnt affect much with it.

even worse... we ceras can just puke and eat again .. so even a "not on full stomach" could help there...

[slim dragon]

That's how meta mutations are
If you don't pick them you die because the advantage they give is too great to ignore
And that's why they're so bad

[waxen lance]

yeah same with speed ur literally forced to take them to avoid cannis and things of similar speeds, its just a balancing nightmare

[tardy wind]

Dilo still has to reapply venom, something that weighs almost 10 tons with 5 minute standing healing would be a big issue for anything smaller than it. Again, I still disagree with your statement on across the board 5 min healing for everything. Balance-wise that would be a nightmare

[hidden kettle]

well still dilo deals much bleed on that bite rate and clone army it got 😄
Dilo is the carnivore apex atm ... change my mind 😄

[waxen lance]

cerato

[tardy wind]

yup

[hidden kettle]

ye every meta is "S-Diet" to me.. why force a specific playstyle and delete variety ...

[hidden kettle]

get eaten by a dilo at ease if it plays it right. At night even worse... oh a single random bite that got stage 3 with it... oh 2k of dmg over the night by a creature hiding 200m away in a bush 😄
oh nooooo venom is gone on orange health... would be a shame to hit a single bite again..

it can quite facetank a hit to apply ... run off ... venom venom venom... healed ... trade bite.. venom venom ... dinner ready 😄

its quite a no brainer at some point especially if you got 2-3 of them its eating whatever it wants..

[waxen lance]

cera has: gastro, vomit, infinite charge bite with 350+ dmg, body buff, stability multiplier while charging, insane smell range, great bleed res

dilo is good when its main mechanic works 😭

[solid anvil]

I’m genuinely curious, why do you guys WANT the terrain dismount stun to be as long as it is right now?

[slim dragon]

Because it's the only option when fighting omnis

[golden coral]

Possibly because you can avoid it? you can change sides, or jump off

[slim dragon]

Also this

[hidden kettle]

its 345dmg..last i checked at least (also if i remember correct headbites doesnt scale the same )
everyone can pick gastro, other species even get more from it. (10% instead of 5% if not changed) but cera can puke and gastro again..
Cera is way to slow to hunt anything.. if you die to a cera that bullies a corpse you deserved it for stay at it... its supposed to keep you away from it being a defensive powerhouse... so ikf you vomit you got bitten for staying around at the "largest" Carnivore we got for now.. but it cant keep up by any means if it goes down to hunting compared to a dilo.
thats why i say Dilo feels more apex than cera.

Cera is a big defense that gets "abused" offensive. which can only be the case if someone wanna pick up that fight... speaking for other carnivores.

[hidden kettle]

it should be long enough to take a follow up hit for punishment. but not long enough to get multiple. so in most cases it should survive that one fail .. unless its a stego/Tike 😄

[solid anvil]

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a stun or any punishment for being pushed off by terrain. I get that it’s how you fight them, but it was very effective and powerful BEFORE the stun durations were changed.

[slim dragon]

But then it'd nerf this approach specifically, and I see no reason to do that

Compared to every other CC in the game

[tardy wind]

What other species get 10% gastro? To my knowledge that's just untrue.

And Cera really isn't WAY too slow to hunt anything. Yes it's slower than many things smaller than itself (and teno) but at least for teno it's within a speed range where a solid ambush can keep a fight going.

And the vomit is fine, I agree you should be punished for overstaying your welcome, but almost insta-vomit which depletes 75% of your food and water immediately is a bit ridiculous.

[hidden kettle]

true.
if it survived it can back off at ease

[elfin night]

I think deino should be affected by cc

Imagine knocking one over

[slim dragon]

It isn't ?

[elfin night]

It doesn’t get flipped by trike

[slim dragon]

Doesn't just deino have a stability multiplier ? Which I think is fine

[elfin night]

Hopefully cama can stun it

Or Shant

Not killing because deino is a carnivore but still

[slim dragon]

Can trike flip like, a juvie deino ?

[hidden kettle]

ye vomiting should punish a bit more on stam and less on food/water maybe (but even that would make a lot of balance problems) also i see cera should take more bites. on the other hand its meant to make you puke fast to "uncomfy" your situation into leaving.. which sadly doesnt work that way since it becomes a dumb fight to death by players not takeing the "just leave" scenario 😄

[hidden kettle]

is there even a flip animation ?! 😄
thought they just get a " ouchie ma tail" head bob 😄

[elfin night]

Dunno, but it would be peak

[solid anvil]

I’m just saying it should be where it was before. Effectively the change is stun durations from attacks are longer, but terrain stuns aren’t, that’s still a MASSIVE nerf to omni. Cerato, carno, and effectively pachy can one-shot omni with the current stun duration. The stun duration benefits literally everything in some way EXCEPT for omni. In the last patch, stego was the only thing where desync could cause instant death, now an alt attack, flip, or terrain dismount is instant death when fighting most creatures. Pounce bugs and desync were bad before, but now pretty much any desync hit or dismount will kill you.

[hidden kettle]

got pounced in the face twice yesterday.. just yeeted ma face and hung on my flank by that... so desync as bad as it is got two sides nobody wants 😄
also yes a trike thrashing shoudnt be killing an omni /troodon jumping its side tho

dindt they just made the stun imunity hit later ? durations should be still the same arent thy ? havent noted any difference in timeing...

[keen plover]

No. Deino stagger and knockdown hasn’t existed since update 6

Should be in the 6.5 patchnotes stating it was removed

[keen plover]

It’s ridiculously long when knocked from trees. Can’t defend that at all

[solid anvil]

The difference is that if you get hit by a pounce because of desync you’re very likely not going to die, you get more chances, but if your pounce hits somebody’s face because of desync you die INSTANTLY. Before hitting the head with pounce because of desync put out of the fight, now it just straight up kills you. I’m not even arguing that should be changed, I’m saying that the terrain stun, which is often more inconsistent with hitboxes and desync, AND stuns you next to them already shouldn’t be affected by the global stun increases. I have no clue why that is so controversial. I agree with you that it shouldn’t be instant death unless it’s a trike or stego, but it is instant death for almost everything right now. Why should brushing against a small palm tree knock down for the same amount of time as a 800 kg hunk of bone ramming you in the side?

[slim dragon]

"not going to die" if you're at least 2x the omni's size
Otherwise you just die

[steep gazelle]

Omni has had his cooldown increased to recover from knockdown and when making slight turns while running in a straight line he loses acceleration.

[hidden kettle]

well not if those multiple omnies magically facepounce you and hang on the side like yesterday.. that ended up in a pin by that <.<

desync surely hits different on dieing to some stuff that shouldnt gonna happen. obviously id say so ye omni got a problem on that.

[hidden kettle]

true.. just get pinned until next week and die frustrated 😄