balance-feedback-discussion

[elfin night]

The concept is good, the problem is its current state and even how it felt in spiro and all from the perspective of a solo player

You are very much unable to consistently grow one unless you are in a group with other gators or you belong in some clan outside of the game because gateway barely has any good places for ambushes since many have safe drinking spots or you might risk getting cannibalized by local deinos in places like west rail, south planes or highlands lake. You are practically forced to eat other crocs in the places with food such as water access because fish will soon stop being useful, and the only places where you can reliably hide and don’t force you into tight chokepoints with no escape are highlands lake and water access.

If you want to go elsewhere like moving from access to delta in order to get salt water mutation, you are forced to go through narrow waterways with no way to hide or escape larger crocs as they will even walk you down even when they are 6 tons heavier.

You have to spend 4-6 hours of your growth depending on your diet hiding or else you will get steamrolled by practically everyone if you are a solo player, and there’s only two places where you can hide AND see others coming without turning a corner and bumping into a cannibal pair.

also the east plains spawn is a death sentence

From the perspective of even the croc itself, deino is easily the worst playable in the entire game right now.

[dusky surge]

how lol

[elfin night]

Deino SUCKS rn

[viscid mica]

They’ll be nearly the same weight probably near the same speed same agility but one will be a INSANELY better swimmer thus making it more diverse so if it has the same trick as omni what’s the point of omni when Austro would be objectively better

[keen plover]

where are you getting this from :o

[edgy crow]

austro pin would suck, agreed

[edgy crow]

my brain

[keen plover]

[dusky surge]

i'd imagine austro would be significantly lighter weight

[viscid mica]

Na

[elfin night]

If Bary gets about the same oxygen as beipi, it will be a better deino, mark my words

[edgy crow]

austro is gonna be doomed in the 1v1 underwater

but beipi will be doomed in the 1v1 above water

its like rex and trike really

[viscid mica]

Its place holder is 425 lol

Austro ain’t that small tbh

[mint star]

do you think austroraptor would benefit from burrowing by diving headfirst into mud

[dusky surge]

based on what?

[edgy crow]

perhaps

[viscid mica]

The place holder in the games files LOL

There a dude who posts them

[mint star]

the earthwormraptor

[keen plover]

What happens if Austro beats it in water and land 🤔

[edgy crow]

I get annoyed

[viscid mica]

RUN BETTER RUN OUT RUN THESE BULLETS

[elfin night]

Trike underwater beats rex

[mint star]

beipis start ganging up and snapping their fingers in sync

[keen plover]

Lol

[edgy crow]

apparently trike has good swim speed according to datamining

so yea probably

[elfin night]

Insane

[warm flax]

dryo gang RISE

[edgy crow]

seriously tho, there's not much I see a water austro doing to beipi in its current state

[keen plover]

Do we even know what austro can do

[mint star]

dont forget austroraptor can kick while swimming

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-gif-23705685

[warm flax]

would be cool if mutiple deino can drag a rex while it is swimming

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/minmin-minions-despicable-me-dancing-gif-15705025

[edgy crow]

not gonna be enough

austros will fall and beipis will rise as the aquatic apex predator

[viscid mica]

Ah hell no

[elfin night]

Me and my beipi family after executing order 66 on another beipi group because they were unwilling to kos deinos and juvenile omnis

[viscid mica]

I’ve said it once IMMA SAY IT AGAIN any ability to 1 tap something large or bigger without them making a choice to put them selves in a awful spot is a TERRIBLE idea

[viscid mica]

XD

[dusky surge]

nah

[elfin night]

No

Would be cool if Rex could pin deinos tho

[edgy crow]

cringe

[keen plover]

i mean they said swimming tbf

like if you go swimming with 2 deinos idk seems like a mistake?

[viscid mica]

Objectively Rex’s where excellent swimmers and could defend themselves even from the great big F U fish of its era

I legit just finished rewatching prehistoric planet

[dusky surge]

idk i think the programming nightmare of 2 deinos trying to both drag an animal sounds not worth it

[viscid mica]

REAL

[dusky surge]

also it encourages pack play with deino which is kind of not its identity

[keen plover]

does realism matter? They already have small carno and big teno

[keen plover]

This is true

[edgy crow]

deino big game pack hunter niche

[warm flax]

well we already got pond deino and land deino due the way how fish spawns

[elfin night]

Deino grapple

[keen plover]

I truly wonder what happens to the deino pop when rex and trike drop lol

[viscid mica]

No but i just hate the idea of things that take a minimum of 4 hours being 1 tapped without bad decisions being made and stuff that takes some 6+ hours being 1 tapped for any reason at all sounds dumb to me

[keen plover]

I know I'll go deino fishing with trike

[warm flax]

pretty much the same , the only difference is there will be less cannibals

[elfin night]

Many will prolly try them out and there will be less of all playables, but I want to see if someone will cry their eyes out because they can’t snatch a rex or a trike

Or there’s an evil trike kosing them and camping bodies at the shore

[dusky surge]

i mean... they'd be loving the subs and juvis tbh, and would be mostly unaffected as long as they stay in the water

[warm flax]

it is like maia and daiblo came out.
deino got plently of food and everyone is pretty chill

[keen plover]

Fair. I don't really mind what happens to deino so I won't argue against this

[viscid mica]

It’ll drop but the amount of FGs will remain sense there are only ever some 3/4 on any given server

[elfin night]

You and I know well that many drinks will try to attack an adult rex or trike and get instantly bodied

[viscid mica]

I just think having 1 tap on such grindy stuff isn’t a great idea like it’s PUBLIC knowledge that you don’t swim as stego unless you wanna die

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-attack-crocodile-strong-gif-9728562

[keen plover]

Funnily enough added to stop stegos from deino fishing. (Didn't work out). But like Trike will do the same so

[elfin night]

Real

[keen plover]

Genuinely a pointless attempt. There's no way right?

[viscid mica]

I mean if your a deino you should know what is and isn’t a good target

[elfin night]

Although I’m gonna be busy being a canni trike, I want to kos some deinos

[elfin night]

Absolutely

[warm flax]

how about deino can still latch on trike /rex and drain their stam but they can still swim across the river?

[keen plover]

Actually they still go after stegos LOL

[viscid mica]

Plus FG deino you should be picky if you hear multiple things and wait for the biggest one

[viscid mica]

Idiots

[keen plover]

Stego powerswing made it impossible LOL

[edgy crow]

YOU CAN'T BE A CANNIBAL AS TRIKE TRIKES CAN'T EAT EACH OTHER

[elfin night]

No. Deino will never go for something larger than a swimming steg or acro

[keen plover]

And I've seen many lunge at stegos and get stunned

[elfin night]

I will eat them anyway

[warm flax]

you can't stop ppl feasting from their tears

[elfin night]

Im gonna destroy everyone with my trike

Knocking over stegos will be delightful

I wonder if trike will be able to cc deinos

Or (not fg) rex

[warm flax]

first you need to find a deino far away from water

[elfin night]

Nah, they will come to me while I drink

[elfin night]

Also I have managed to ambush deinos as stego before

[viscid mica]

Amazing addition for fighting apex’s

[elfin night]

Super easy especially in water access. You just have to get inside the bushes near the mudpool shore at night with the slow walk and stay there for like 5-10 minutes and then jump them while they’re resting or talking in chat with each other

[viscid mica]

Something to note is stego is a dam near silent sprinter

[elfin night]

I have killed 2 adult deinos like that before

Slow walk with trike and maybe rain will help

I also ambush with dibble in the jungle

[viscid mica]

I’ve hella been jump scared by stegos before cuz of how quite they run

[viscid mica]

You the type to afk in bushes ain’t you you feind

[elfin night]

Nope

I just use bushes and the slow walk to carefully sneak up on people while they’re in groups

Or I just slow walk to a good bush near a point of interest and I wait there for someone to come by like a police car

I have killed carnos and ceras like that

Also a teno once

If it is stegs or dibbles I just try to betray or run them down

[viscid mica]

You don’t even need to slow walk as stego

Brother makes no noise anyways

[viscid mica]

What the teno do XD

[elfin night]

Exist

[dusky surge]

nothing can. stunning deino is impossible

[elfin night]

Boooo

That’s lame

[warm flax]

only if the deino trying to grapple thing bigger than it can

[edgy crow]

is it?

[dusky surge]

yup

complete stun immunity on the deino

[edgy crow]

maybe it will change with spino

[dusky surge]

why would it?

[warm flax]

it can be pinned by omni, if your stam is low enough and small enough

I got pinned by a group of omni once, I was trying to kill a cannibal and it flee and send its pack to slower me down

[edgy crow]

idk

maybe spino has some cool cc

[dusky surge]

it seems to be able to grab deino in certain concept arts and poses

kind of like a pin tbh

[edgy crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/860702568145354795/1340505598638166056/attachment.gif

[viscid mica]

it wasn’t grabbing it was going for a bite and that’s a terrible idea

“How to make something unplayable 101”

[viscid mica]

@rapid flume jump off before it hits you on the terrain don’t be greedy if you don’t wanna get stunned

Is this a Fsh alt I think bro already has me pre blocked

Gotta be I don’t even know who bro is and I can’t react

[severe grail]

Bite once, jump off, wait, jump again, bite opnce... follow.. let your bleed do the work (RE Omni)

[eager saddle]

That costs a lot of stam tho

[viscid mica]

Too much stam for omni

[severe grail]

so basically the stam use is the issue (and the sub-par bleed)

[viscid mica]

It’s bleed is pretty good if u use bleed attacks but yes stam use thou I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily bad more so needs to be used and managed smarter than such a rapid attack

[severe grail]

Yeah otherwise you need to use LMB attack while sprinting which doesn't work on things that have tail attacks (most of the medium-large prey) or a strong bite (Cera/carno)

[iron tree]

#balance-feedback message
Teno slams its tail and stego swings it. Try to slam an axe into the ground then swing it. The swing will be faster

[severe grail]

#balance-feedback message Yes but also Deino doesn't get to hunt players, because people take Xerocole/Carni equivalent or Reabsorption to negate drinking, especially nested in dinos that have spare mutation slots for utility.

Deino also has the worst diet list in the game (outside maybe Carno who can't get lipids unless they hunt players)

As for AI spawns it needs to be spread out more and not reliant on players to exist.

#balance-feedback messagehow does a cerato miss its bite when it can hold its mouth open indefinitely.

[hasty coyote]

plus look at the animations. teno swings up, then swings back down. The animations that stego is faster with are where the stego just immediately swings a direction. When aiming straight back, stego has a MUCH longer animation than teno as it pulls back the tail then lunges it forward.

[elfin night]

We love 2016

[torn egret]

Anyone know what the supposed troodon buffs are

[warm flax]

what buff?

[torn egret]

There’s extra health and damage buff that I know of now

Also seems like there’s a change in hunger and stam consumption when FG

On the ht rn, troodon is ridiculous feeling. Love it

Only thing is that the desync is awful lol. Ping 140+ NA is ridiculous
But I got some good action in. The game feels better overall

[eager saddle]

seriously tho, what buff?

[dusky surge]

oh god they brought back the extra health thing

god dammit i was hoping that change was dead

[edgy crow]

Did they really LMAO

Ain't no way

[iron tree]

#balance-feedback message nerfing everything about cera would make it unviable

Giving it its slide back and a slight speed reduction while charging its bite alongside the removal of the vomit stun lock would make cera fair and balanced

[torn egret]

I get the extra health thing for bigger stuff being dumb, but I think it’s to help make sanctuary hunting “easier”
Troodon solo can barely survive outside of sanctuary without being 90% scavengers

But the extra damage thing is nice as well.

[iron tree]

What extra health thing?

[torn egret]

Some “buffs” in the past had been giving Dino’s health for no reason.
It just didn’t work in the past ig.
But rn, adding health to tiny playable is great

Troo rn has 120 health while staying 60kg

Pachy bonk is sometimes survivable lol

[iron tree]

Okay...what the

[edgy crow]

that would mean it can survive a dilo bite

lovely

[minor axle]

Dilo bites like a chainsaw so surviving a bite doesn’t mean much smh

[worthy steeple]

no?

[dusky surge]

So this is 100% on HT?

Because I remember them removing this

[minor axle]

I mean most mushroom munchers just see a black screen when it isn’t moon on sactuaries

[iron tree]

"It can survive an omni bite too!! That's op! Neeeeeeeerf!!! Omni is so weak. Plz buff it"

[worthy steeple]

troo cant have 120hp unless they changed its weight

[dusky surge]

No it can

It’s had it once before.

[iron tree]

Hidden health

[worthy steeple]

so 120hp troodon is real?

did anyone test that?

[dusky surge]

ATM? No idea. At one point? Yea

[minor axle]

Troodon lied about the pounds it put on

[iron tree]

Troodon has a sleeper build

[minor axle]

Ate a bit too much cake and uses a belt to hold it all in

[dusky surge]

They added it then removed it one time. I’d be shocked if they went BACK and gave it 120 again

[worthy steeple]

120hp troodon is meh not gonna lie, i would rather give it other buffs, not hp.

[minor axle]

Asleep on the ground after 2 bites

[iron tree]

No troodon is so op

[worthy steeple]

yeah same, i highly doubt they will give it 120hp…

[minor axle]

I’ve never died to a troodon

[iron tree]

It can survive an omni bite. Omni is so weak. Plz buff

[minor axle]

I honestly have never even been concerned by one

[edgy crow]

mfw the glassy pack hunter is no longer made glassy

[worthy steeple]

why would omni bite it? just inta pin it instead👹👹👹

[iron tree]

Me neither. I barely see them. I literally just hear "Ooooweeee" in the distance

[worthy steeple]

but surviving dilo bite is wild

[iron tree]

I'm just being sarcastic

[worthy steeple]

i know, me too👹

[iron tree]

🔥

[worthy steeple]

that’s why i sent the emoji..

[iron tree]

I can't wait for para

[worthy steeple]

same.

para, my beloved.

[iron tree]

I hope it'll be able to beat the allosaurus out of allo

[worthy steeple]

hopefully.

[edgy crow]

parasaurolophus walkeri

[worthy steeple]

i hope allo is not gonna be allo2

omni2

lmao😭

[iron tree]

It can pounce

And pin

And grapple

[worthy steeple]

😔

only the best mechanics

[iron tree]

11t para would be so peak

[elfin night]

If it doesn’t have a good walking animation I will riot

[keen plover]

but but but para is the "looker" of the isle!

[minor axle]

It will stun allo with its looks

[torn egret]

It seems that way. I survived pachy body hits lol
Fractured body and orange health.

[torn egret]

Yes seems that way on the ht

[worthy steeple]

no way

[torn egret]

It can!

[worthy steeple]

that’s actually kinda.. unnecessary?

but @lethal shale @cosmic pelican will love it

[dusky surge]

I’m a troodon main and I hate it

[torn egret]

It’s just qol stuff to bring more people to small quirky playables
Troo is literally considered trash by a large number of the community.
Squishy, hard to learn etc
But there’s a lot of nuances in seeing w the damage and bleed adjustment

[dusky surge]

Applying inconsistent rules will only create a domino effect where certain animals are just screwed

Troodon now basically instawins against dryo and beipi for instance, which I find exceptionally lame

[edgy crow]

Thanks I hate it

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/guardians-of-the-galaxy-rocket-raccoon-crying-pain-gif-5914072486607539335

[worthy steeple]

120hp troodon is super lame. i hate it

[dusky surge]

If your solution to people not enjoying small quirky playables is to take away one of the core components of being a small, quirky playable, you fundamentally misunderstand the point

[edgy crow]

If 60kg troo and 120hp troo don't work, maybe 30kg troo is the answer

[torn egret]

Not an insta win, but considering it needs ambush to kill a lot of things, if you’re caught by a troo on land as a beipi then rip. Fg raptor insta wins. So does dilo.
It’s no different,
Dryo needs love regardless, burrows are coming supposedly.

[dusky surge]

Troodon shouldn’t be treated the same as dilo or omni tho

[torn egret]

What’s the quirk? Dying all the time lol.
I love troo, and my issue is that there’s rarely another small target for them to go after.
Cera and carnos kid and dibbles and stegos rule hotspots.

[torn egret]

Right, but people don’t play it enough. People don’t play anything small lol because the game is combat oriented because of player base

[worthy steeple]

honestly, the biggest troodon issue is desync, if that gets adjusted or maybe even fixed then troodon is gonna be so much better as a playable

[torn egret]

So let the quirky trio have some health to live a tad longer on the HT until it has a higher survival rate

[torn egret]

Looking at the pachy lmao

That stupid headbutt

[worthy steeple]

120hp troodon is just unnecessary, it gives more room for mistakes, but troodons whole thing is one mistake = death.

surviving dilos bite is just too much for something that is 10 times smaller

[dusky surge]

Now that I think about it, does troodon have 120HP? A tap ram does measly damage, and I’m gonna go on a limb and say you were running congenital

[torn egret]

On HT it does.
And no I don’t run cog because it’s a waste of a slot for troo imo.
I lean into the glass cannon

[dusky surge]

I lean into the glass cannon too. It’s why I hate 120HP troodon

[torn egret]

I’m pretty sure health will go back to normal after the test because they have done some buffs I think w venom

[torn egret]

120 is still glass in the big scheme of things

[dusky surge]

It ruins two of Troodon’s most fun matchups. That alone is unforgivable

[torn egret]

Cera and carno 1 shot able.
Pin is still insta death from Omni.
Idk, I think shoving troo into a low health spawning simulator by keeping it unviable against 90% of what people mostly play is just as egregious

[worthy steeple]

i hate all those shadowbuffs/shadownerfs, just let us know what you changing.

[dusky surge]

I think breaking the rules of the health system of the game for one animal is pretty egregious

Especially when you can just buff other parts of it and let it be fragile

[vale brook]

i too enjoyed when i survived a dilo bite to the head during troodon 120 hp era

[torn egret]

I think they do that because the game is too “get gud” focused rn lol.
People care more about combat than survival experience

[torn egret]

Exceptions = niche, the troodon is a minuscule predator. You can’t hold it to the same rules and standards

[worthy steeple]

tbf combat is huge part of the isle right now, i’d say it’s the main part.

player interaction in general is always the most important part of multiplayer game and when they change stuff all the time without ever saying anything.. that’s just very annoying

[torn egret]

The game shouldn’t be about combat. They want to move away from that and push for interaction and ingenuity

Silent changes rewards those that actually play and test the small things

And get feedback from those that actually are affected

[dusky surge]

Why the hell not? Hypsi is held to these rules, as are ptera, beipi and dryo

[worthy steeple]

ofc isle is survival game, but its survival game with the most complex combat mechanics, where every animal is unique and it’s very easy to make something op accidentally without even notifying the community about the changes.

like the dilo was okay for a while and then suddenly they buffed it to one shot monster and made it op in just one patch and no one knew they changed stuff

[worthy steeple]

they will get a lot more feedbacks if we knew what they want us to test

[torn egret]

They aren’t carnivorous?
They each have a unique trait for survival? Almost like each of the small tiers are 100% unique…

[dusky surge]

Why should carnivore or not change the matter

[keen plover]

Troodon ? hp buff?

[torn egret]

I get it.
Active players probably play a bit of everything, so those players will find changes better prob

[dusky surge]

Apparently

I don’t know if it’s true but I hated last time it was in

[torn egret]

Cause, the other 3 have uber unique playstyles too lol

[keen plover]

How did they even come to that conclusion though

[dusky surge]

Rammed by pachy and didn’t die apparently

Although I think it was just a tap ram

[torn egret]

Prob a temp one.
No one wants to talk about the venom buff I think there might be… everyone complaining about the hp lol

But that’s why devs don’t say anything

[worthy steeple]

but pachy fracturing troodon is just too weird

[torn egret]

Cause people lock onto small stuff like that

[dusky surge]

The venom buff is actually a good idea tho

[keen plover]

Even at troodons old 120 hp, it would have died though Lol

Pachy might have been wounded as well

[torn egret]

At 60% I was able to 3 pounce a boar

[torn egret]

It was a sub

Thought I said that in the post my b

[keen plover]

ah. Makes some sense then. You would be able to survive a tap ram from a sub

[torn egret]

Pretty sure it’s increased scaling damage,

[torn egret]

I was having way too much fun in the sanctuary lol

[dusky surge]

Anyway I still despise the health buff. Literally the best most fun matchup for dryo ruined

[torn egret]

Aaaand back to health talk lol

Anyways, I think bleed, damage scaling, and maybe a better pack buff was introduced?

[dusky surge]

I don’t think there ever was a pack buff for Troo

[torn egret]

Has been since at least last patch.
Solo trio v Omni is like 6 pounces?
W 2 troodons it’s 5.
May not seem like much, but that’s why devs damage probably scales

[dusky surge]

I’m almost certain that isn’t the case unless perhaps you’re simply getting off more pounces during the final stage

[torn egret]

Tested on PvP server

I think it’s why even if you’re not in the pack, you trill when another troo lands venom I think

[dusky surge]

No that’s just a mechanic to indicate venom to other troodons. There’s no deeper mechanic to it

[torn egret]

We were also counting the total number of pounces post stage 3

But hey, the devs don’t tell us all the mechanics so who is to say there aren’t hidden ones like that

I think that would be a fantastic buff

If it isn’t already in

[viscid mica]

Unless I’m mistaken they never added any additions to troodons kit?

Not yet atleast it’s not logged anywhere

[slim dragon]

They added a fog effect to its venom

[viscid mica]

That’s been there for ages

[slim dragon]

But not since troodon's release

So it's an addition

[viscid mica]

Brother, they were talking recent horde test

The fog has existed for months

[slim dragon]

Having been there for months and being a recent addition aren't incompatible in the isle

[viscid mica]

[lethal shale]

Can you prove it?

Pachy bonk is also survivable on the evrima branch if it isn’t charged up properly

[cosmic pelican]

Actually nah 😭

After a certain point of skill, you wont be getting hit anyways, especially if youre in a coordinated pack

I wouldve much rather had more potent venom :/

But oh well, a troodon buff is still a troodon buff

[worthy steeple]

same, i would rather buff other things, not hp

[cosmic pelican]

Make troodon glide

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-troodon-the-isle-troodon-troodon-the-isle-gif-16228850311061178489

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[elfin night]

What’s the logical connection #balance-feedback message

To make them

Immune to the stamina system everyone abides by

[indigo rain]

@crimson basin id reccomend unmuting #announcements so youre up to date as the devs are very aware of the performance issues and are actively working on them (second paragraph). They dont ping in there for Hordetests by the looks. Also #general-feedback is likely the best spot so yk for next time

[torn egret]

That's like the 1 thing I brought up AND NOONE noticed. lmao
Looks like troo has more damage on HT

[cosmic pelican]

WHAT

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[torn egret]

ikr

[cosmic pelican]

I NEED NUMBERSSSSS

[torn egret]

Imagine, the community ignoring that cause "HP BAD"

I am gonna try to get something today (testing wise)
But a 60% -75% troo can 3-4 tap a boar w pounces

Did that a few times.

[cosmic pelican]

That sounds the same 😭

Praying its true tho

[torn egret]

Nah, it dies before stage 3 now at 75%, and the bleed it causes seems WAY higher

[cosmic pelican]

Gotta compare that to live

A boar is 150kg afaik

[torn egret]

120 I think is FG troo damage to phase 3

[cosmic pelican]

So Ill just grab a target of same size

[cosmic pelican]

Wait thats just pre shadow nerf dmg haha

Still lovely tho

Especially if it has more hp as well

[torn egret]

That is the current stats I think from Doqi.
It seems just more survivable

Which I can't believe people complained about lol

[viscid mica]

@charred idol that would be desync not the hitbox

[cosmic pelican]

On live stage 3 is only 100 dmg 😦

Stage 0 is 35, stage 1 is 45, stage 2 is 60, stage 3 is 100

Used to be 40, 40, 80, 120

[viscid mica]

@crimson basin the lag on HT is a known issue they are tracking na3 rn to try and see whats wrong

[torn egret]

Desync will still ruin fights lol
and i believe the dmg now is 35 - 45 - 75 - 75 from there\

[viscid mica]

120*

[cosmic pelican]

Its 100

[viscid mica]

It’s 120

[torn egret]

not 100-120 per pounce.

[cosmic pelican]

It used to be 120, but got shadow nerfed

[torn egret]

^ that

[viscid mica]

When

[torn egret]

past patch

HT has full dmg now

[viscid mica]

Sounds like a bug

[torn egret]

I believe at the true 120 mark

[cosmic pelican]

Every stage's dmg got changed, doubt

[viscid mica]

Something that caused venom to not register properly and reduced its damage? Sounds like a bug

[cosmic pelican]

But if its been rewerted in the HT I shall be happy once more

[cosmic pelican]

Stage 2 gained 5 dmg, so uh

[viscid mica]

I feel like them intentionally nerfing something they where going on and on about buffing makes no sense

[torn egret]

no, its was a change last patch...
The buffs are for the new HT

[viscid mica]

Sounds like a bug

[torn egret]

Troohad to get some other stats adjusted etc

Ok lol you have no ability to debate lol

you wanna discuss or just say "nuh uh?"

[viscid mica]

Cuz it sounds like a bug

[torn egret]

It's not.

[cosmic pelican]

Tenos kick dmg got nerfed too, yet it wasnt a bug

[viscid mica]

Like the idea of it being a bug is really not that wild

[cosmic pelican]

It was just a shadow nerf

[viscid mica]

Teno is incredibly strong and isn’t something they’ve been constantly talking about buffing for the past month

So it makes more sense than troodon getting intentionally nuked damage wise

[torn egret]

😐 This guy lol @cosmic pelican

[cosmic pelican]

Dondi actually said no to buffing troodon in his last stream lol
At least stamina wise

Nothing is set in stone

[viscid mica]

Ya that’s stamina

[cosmic pelican]

Anyways Ill just shush now and go celebrate the buffs

Have a nice day gentlemen

[torn egret]

^
Lmao, Might join ya later,

[viscid mica]

But legit last dev blog and this years road map both mention a kit buff

Mfers never in this chat anyways

[worthy steeple]

tbf when teno got nerfed at first i thought it was a bug, but its not… same with the troodon, we just need to accept it and move on😔

rest in peace old teno

[viscid mica]

But it makes no sense that a playable constantly getting noted by devs as in need of a buff would suddenly get nerfed

[worthy steeple]

what buffs?

[viscid mica]

Revert to original damage on HT

120 t3

[worthy steeple]

i think it will get some other stats buffed instead, maybe venom duration and stuff

[worthy steeple]

did they really revert it? or you just guessing

[viscid mica]

Ya but I can’t see why they’d have nerfed its damage completely out of no where

[viscid mica]

That’s why they said not me

Read up on chat you goob

[worthy steeple]

same, no idea.

[viscid mica]

Which is why I was saying it sounds like a bug

[worthy steeple]

shush you silly cat, i can’t find the message

[viscid mica]

Comparing a extremely underpowered playable to teno of all things for anything is wild

[cosmic pelican]

Im just too good at playing troodon, to the point Dondi saw one of my clips and decided it needed a nerf.

True story.

[viscid mica]

I can recommend a good eye doctor XD

[viscid mica]

So we can just blame you for it

[worthy steeple]

show me the message

[worthy steeple]

i mean, i won’t be surprised

that’s why i should stop posting teno clips lol

[cosmic pelican]

🗣️ 🔥

[worthy steeple]

he’s gonna nerf it again

[cosmic pelican]

30kg troodon btw

[viscid mica]

Here it is

[viscid mica]

It’s funny cuz troodons are immune to dilo venom

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

hm

[cosmic pelican]

They arent

[viscid mica]

It ain’t even that good

[worthy steeple]

we need to test that.

[cosmic pelican]

Those were just tail bites, you can by the 0 bleed

[viscid mica]

Never been afflicted by it as troodon

[cosmic pelican]

Of course, cuz you die before you get envenomated lmao

[worthy steeple]

@viscid mica

[cosmic pelican]

But Ive died to dilo venom before as troo

[viscid mica]

Die to a dilo as the venom rat? What am I new!?

[worthy steeple]

dondi nerfed troodon after seeing this epic clip

100%

[viscid mica]

Pt moment

[cosmic pelican]

Yes

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

btw is 120 hp confirmed or it’s still a mystery?

[cosmic pelican]

Only way you can get envenomated is by getting bit on the body by a wounded sub dilo, otherwise you just get 1 tapped lmao

[viscid mica]

I have died to dilo a total of 2 times in my last 200 grows

Of legit the entire roaster+

[worthy steeple]

i never died to dilo

[viscid mica]

Getting jumped as a pint sized carno not much you can do LOL

[worthy steeple]

i mean yeah, i don’t count fresh spawns tbh

[viscid mica]

But anyways I legit don’t due to stuff like dilo as troodons

[cosmic pelican]

Flows already grew a troodon on the HT, Ill grow a beipi. If troodon actually has 120hp, it will survive a full beipi alt attack to the body with 40hp left, if it doesnt, it will get 1 shot.

[viscid mica]

It’s usually some random charging carno or my own stupidity of going face first into dibble horns or stegos

[worthy steeple]

okay, let me know when you test this

i want to know the results

[viscid mica]

Wouldn’t its weight be 120kg?

[cosmic pelican]

❌

[viscid mica]

How the hell does that work

[viscid mica]

Wait btw did the teno kick beef even really effect its proficiency

[cosmic pelican]

2hp for every 1kg 🤯

[viscid mica]

@pure jay what server are you playing on to where your not getting sandbox KOSd

[viscid mica]

So basically they just give it 50% damage resistance

[cosmic pelican]

You could put it that way

[pure jay]

EU 4 and 10, we're teaming in mixpacks of 10+ and everyone is handholding because there is infinite food and no reason to fight

[cosmic pelican]

💀

[haughty grotto]

@pure jay about 2 months ago there was a state where there was far less food, cause no ai was spawning.
It was the most terrible, most hated, most desperately unfun period I have ever seen where everyone was just out to kill on sight with no other purpose. You couldn't explore, next, heck not even go for a drink without worrying about starvation.

[viscid mica]

Oh so basically every na server?

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

And ya there was a point where nothing spawned at all

So its kinda hard

[pure jay]

Maybe gotta find a middleground because currently it gets kinda boring

[viscid mica]

Why not just make it heavier default?

[viscid mica]

Same Ai spawns double the player count

[pure jay]

For sure, the map is too big for the player count aswell. trippling up on players would be great but I dunno if servers could handle that.

[haughty grotto]

Thats a mixpack problem not a food problem
Mixpacking is going to be nerfed heavily as confirmed by the devs
If you play the game the way it's supposed to be played you won't be steamrolling the server and killing everything and therefore having infinite food

But until then yeah, you can play in easy mode if you like. But that's your choice, it's not a food availability problem that needs to be changed

[viscid mica]

Oh plus bigger apex’s that need to eat larger things

[viscid mica]

Tbh I think apex’s do a good job of stopping mixpacking

Like you try and keep 2 Rex’s fed plus some

Ya gl keeping 2 trikes fed with abuncha other stuff around

[pure jay]

I mean yesterday we had 9 full grown ceratos in our mixpack, just them alone IMO shouldn't be able to play together due to food issues unless they constantly find other grown players

[haughty grotto]

True I agree
Ppl say 'what will you do about apexes who mixpack'
Well they won't really be able to for long cause of insane food requirements

[viscid mica]

Ya fr especially sense stuff like cera that need to eat 247 won’t be able to move slowly like Rex’s cera gotta be mobile and fast

Rex’s while they’re stomach lasts long gotta eat big for any value

As more big stuff comes it’ll help with the mixpacking problems

Especially trike

Trike will be too slow for mixpackers to effectively use

But too strong to go against

[pure jay]

Mixpacking a few smaller dinos like raptors with big predators is no issue because they barely consume food but they can help a lot with hunting

[haughty grotto]

I think there will most certainly be a problem of ppl hiding behind a trike who's standing next to grass and water
The way ppl mixpack with stego protectors at the moment

But carnivore mixpacking will reduce i think cause rexes can't afford to share much

[pure jay]

All I can say is that it felt way more balanced when I last played 3 years ago in terms of food and having to pvp for it

[haughty grotto]

You came back at an interesting time of transition
I think the game will change a looot in the next 2-3 months when rex trike allo are out

They're also making balance adjustments to the entire roster
And then finally the mixpack nerf
Ai getting smarter and more aggressive
Things will change for sure

[pure jay]

I hope the patch brings reasons to pvp, more progression and some more incentives to roam

[worthy steeple]

wdym?

[worthy steeple]

LMAO

[haughty grotto]

I suspect the situation will be reversed
There won't be enough food on the map to serve all those big dinos
Which is fine, itll bring new dynamics of fighting for territory and there won't be extra food to share

[worthy steeple]

mixpack and overpack issue is easily fixable and i will write a feedback soon, dw kids

mommy will take care of this

[haughty grotto]

Think about it
A rex will need the same food to fill up as 6-7 ceras

[worthy steeple]

they will add dino ai

[pure jay]

Ya, so the rex wouldn't even notice teaming with 2 or 3 raptors

[haughty grotto]

Well in a way, it's an incentive to continue playing small animals
They have the luxury of relying on ai and not worrying about starvation, but on the flip side they can't hunt all these big dinos

[pure jay]

:v maybe you just play smol dinos because they're cuter too

[haughty grotto]

🥲

[pure jay]

But ya, I can imagine the game getting unfun in another direction if every lake is suddenly camped by 2 rexes

[dusky surge]

anguish

[worthy steeple]

i had to google what that word means.

i changed my mind on dino ai, i’m neutral, wanna see how they will affect the ecosystem first and what’s gonna be the dino ai role

[viscid mica]

Like teno are still clapping it didn’t affect yall much did it?

[viscid mica]

you laugh cuz you know I’m right

[worthy steeple]

did you ping yourself instead of me🤭🤭🤭🫵

[viscid mica]

Man it’s this dumb mobile update where if you tap a name in insta pasts a at it’s dumb

[worthy steeple]

hmm, the things is.. almost everything cera sized or smaller uses 15 damage reduction which makes the nerf even more significant. teno really lost a lot of damage potential. i still kill things, but i can feel the nerf

[worthy steeple]

oh discord is getting worse and worse every day

[keen plover]

I wish they'd nuke larger ai so none of the adults could survive off them. Maybe then starvation would be a risk. Also grazing is too good

[viscid mica]

Ah so basically still scary but you get a extra kick to escape lol

[dusky surge]

i remain steadfast. there's no one who's delivered me a convincing argument to what they can possibly add that more player slots can't

[keen plover]

Like the game hasn't been a survival game in a lifetime anyways. Even when there was "no ai"

[worthy steeple]

#isle-discussion message here’s my calculations

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-gif-13575853101874488635

[keen plover]

The moment its any bit hard and people actually starve, they up the ai amount 😭

[worthy steeple]

no idea, maybe ai will mostly exist for humans

[dusky surge]

how lol

[viscid mica]

Ah ok so still strong just legit 1 or 2 more kicks for most things

[dusky surge]

gen 2 humans can't even eat the dinosaurs or interact with them beyond blasting their brains out if they get too close

[worthy steeple]

no idea lol, i’m just guessing at this point

[worthy steeple]

well we don’t really know what’s gonna be the humans role, surely it’s not just running around the map and killing dinosaurs

[dusky surge]

all AI dinos are is free food for bad players and an immersion-breaking feature that discourages playing species that are already "taken" by AI

[viscid mica]

Ya it’s gonna be weird with apex’s that Ai will be worthless too past a certain point

[worthy steeple]

valid

[viscid mica]

Down with Ai Dino’s

[keen plover]

I hope so at least

[worthy steeple]

you can really feel the nerf when you kick the dilo 3 times and it’s somehow still alive lol

[viscid mica]

Mhm

[viscid mica]

Fair I mean yall so used to curb stomping so easily having to kick 1 or 2 more times Truly criminal

[worthy steeple]

but my only real issue with the teno is how useless is tailslam, it should knockdown and stun for longer. that’s the only thing i want.

-# oh yeah and old 150 damage

[worthy steeple]

hehehe

[viscid mica]

Evil

[worthy steeple]

😔

well tbf i see why they did that, so if you miss the tailslam the thing you’re fighting gets a free hit

[keen plover]

Not even lmaooooo

[slim dragon]

AI dinos should be exclusively species that aren't playable, like taco and compy
And in my opinion they should be stronger than the playable counterpart so they remain some sort of challenge despite being dumb

[keen plover]

It was changed when they added the attack cooldowns due to the hacks

[worthy steeple]

but you can go on dm server right now and test for how long tailslam knockdown omni, it’s legit like 0.5 seconds or something

[worthy steeple]

ah lmao

[keen plover]

Literally pachy has a similar issue

[keen plover]

Knockdowns are universal.

[worthy steeple]

not at all

[slim dragon]

In my ideal Isle, Ai dinos would be easily recognizable from player dinos as playable dinos would be feathered, and AI would be scaly

[keen plover]

Some creatures get up quicker sure, but the attacks themselves don't cause them to stay down for longer

[worthy steeple]

i wish they were universal, carno is getting knocked down for like 3-4 seconds, omni gets up almost immediately

[pure jay]

Knocking myself down as raptor when pounce bugs out lasts between two years and a decade :c

[keen plover]

I thought you were talking about teno tail slam somehow doing reduced knockdown time 😭

Omni has a very quick get up though. It's kind of annoying.

[worthy steeple]

oh

[worthy steeple]

ikr😭

[keen plover]

I miss the old timers man 💔

[worthy steeple]

i mean, if something as fast and agile as omni gets slammed.. it should be punished

[dusky surge]

i personally just dont want ai to have a "playable counterpart"

[worthy steeple]

some parts of the game were way more balanced before tbh.

[keen plover]

Yeah....

[crimson crater]

by death is kinda annoying ngl

stuns as a whole is getting out of hand, literally every playable has it which takes away the fun and skill in combat

[minor axle]

teno players when they dont get to stun lock kill everyone they hit (the game is literally completely unfair to them and should be changed)

omni being agile very well explains WHY it gets up. Why would a nimble creature suddenly not move in such a way when its life is on the line?

[keen plover]

If you have the speed and agility to avoid being hit, especially by such an avoidable attack, then idk? you should actually get punished for it?

Omni gets up too quickly for a lot of creatures to follow up. It's especially annoying on Carno

[minor axle]

good i hate carnos.

[keen plover]

😔

[minor axle]

double the carno standup time, shrink it again, but raise the growth timer (it will take as long to grow as rex)

[hasty coyote]

This actually prompted me to think of a way to make grazing less op but still function and make sense, and I think I got one:

+grazing no longer caps at 20% hunger
-grazing now locks out hunger = 2x the amount filled.

So at most, you can fill your hunger to 33%, but then you won’t be able to refill for a while. This would function like how vomit locks out stats but exclusively hunger, still allows you to eat, and doesn’t get cured by a salt lick.

Basically you are filling your stomach with low nutrient grass, so it will be full, but you won’t be fed as much.

And long term grazing would eventually starve you

[keen plover]

I wish the debuffs were worse man. Like grazing meant your diets drained quicker. Also they need to bring back malnutrition debuff lol

and make it really bad

you can straight up survive off 0 diets and there's no negatives rn

[hasty coyote]

Yeah diets are def much more intuitive which is great, but also practically unimportant once you’re adult since they are minimal buffs and 0 negatives.

[minor axle]

buff grazing so it fills 100% and gives all diets.

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-7115459171734406715

[vale brook]

i imagine this will change when elders are released

[hasty coyote]

One can hope

[vale brook]

tying diets into elders and elders into nesting (and by extension, more diet involvement in nesting) could as a whole make the systems feel far more organic and connected

[keen plover]

maybe but you're pretty much base stats with 0 diets rn

shouldn't be like that at all

[hasty coyote]

Isn’t one diet still bugged so that it actually increases stam regen time rather than decrease it lol

[vale brook]

stam regen is tied to having all 3 diets now but yes its currently bugged in HT again

[hasty coyote]

Lmao

[vale brook]

atleast i think its all 3 now

[worthy steeple]

no, it doesn’t lol

you can easily avoid tenos tailslam, if you didn’t you should get punished

[minor axle]

well as beipi you basically can only reliably get 1 diet well so it's all good

[minor axle]

tenos should obviously be punished for failing to maneuver and connect a 2nd slam.

add pachy slef punishment to teno if it misses anything non agile.

[keen plover]

https://tenor.com/view/dogs-look-at-eachother-confused-tiktok-cute-gif-21608274

[worthy steeple]

tail slam already locks you in place and doesn’t let you use the kick for like a second after

[vale brook]

normally i wouldnt agree and would say skill issue but beipi diet is genuinely SO bugged that i wouldnt even call dots consistent

[worthy steeple]

not to mention it’s kinda punishing for using the main ability✨

[minor axle]

it's not really an issue to lack diets as beipi since you finish growing basically after eating in sanctuary once, so it's honestly more of an ocd annoyance than an actual harm.

[torn egret]

I think the tail slam and other attacks having a cool down if they land is perfectly fine. I just don’t wanna see murder hobo herbivores.
I’m still big on believing that her before combat should be focused mostly on being able to get away or deter threats. But too often do her before players actually get the chance to be the aggressor and win a lot of fights.

[keen plover]

Deter them how though.

They never stop attacking lmao

[torn egret]

That’s what I mean. Fractures are a fantastic way to deter a carnivore from trying to finish a fight. High bleed is as well.
But most of the herbivores can outDPM the carnivores in their size.
We’re also talking about again that has way too many people playing for the combat not the survival aspect. It’s gonna be hard to get that on official servers, but unofficial servers might be easier with behavior rules, etc

There’s also no reason to not kill everything that you fight. There’s no real long-term repercussions from combat in my opinion.

Your biggest threat is a third-party

[worthy steeple]

LMAOOOO that same stuff is happening to me like almost every day.

i remember how i was fighting an omni pack and it took em like half an hour of trying to hunt me to understand that i don’t want to kill them lmaoo.

[keen plover]

Why would people play for survival when survival is trivial. I don't even have to hunt as a carni. Nor do I have to find food as a herbi since grazing

Only thing of substance is the combat

[worthy steeple]

@keen plover that’s what i do to carnos usually

[torn egret]

You do if you want to grow faster and get buff during combat, but that’s what I mean everything is geared to combat

[keen plover]

lmao same. They're funny

[torn egret]

Lmfao

[worthy steeple]

yeah.. they’re so rare i almost never attack them first

unless there’s huge mixpack or overpack

[torn egret]

I think ability attacks should have a charge or cooldown mechanic, make fights longer and the game gets dicey lol

[keen plover]

I guess but I can grow fast by hunting the 20 thousand ai at NE as a carni

[keen plover]

Please no...

I'd rather a higher stam cost than that

[worthy steeple]

yeah lol

[keen plover]

also i can cheese patrols as a herbi and then go somewhere else to fight

[torn egret]

I feel you. It should only be for a few of the attacks if any. Higher stam cost is great as well imo.

[torn egret]

Ht has changed how herbis get diet

Has to be an active zone

[keen plover]

Neat. Now reduce the ai and remove them from the diets of fgs if they're raptor sized and larger

[torn egret]

Eeeeh, that’s a bit rough

[keen plover]

I mean you can still eat them

[worthy steeple]

it’s a good change, it’s part of my mixpack/overpack issue suggestion i’m writing, trust

[hasty coyote]

Herbivores generally have higher dps because they are slower. Unless you want the carnivore to be faster AND face tank the herbivore, they need higher dps. This isn’t a carni vs herbi issue, it’s a fast vs slow, like teno and cera have very comparable combat abilities and speed. Main difference is that tenos are more defensive, have animation locks, have stam costs, and have slightly higher dps, while ceras are more offensive, more burst oriented, and have less cc.

[minor axle]

Carnivores actually just eat each other anyways. This is actually historically accurate, as during the j-k transition swarms of carnivores emerged partially grown.

[torn egret]

Ok, but this is a game with a limited roster
Interactions should be encouraged across all species of some kind imo

[crimson crater]

what were they tryna accomplish☠️

[elfin night]

You heard that right, carnos in petits when all ai suddenly disappears, there’s too much food

#balance-feedback message

Also deinos who basically have to turn their own into +50% of their diet

[minor axle]

Part of it is that we mostly have small carnivores that can sustain themselves off small game. The t Rexes won’t get that luxury.

[elfin night]

Yeah

I guess this person wants all Rexes and Allos to die because there’s 50 bodies in south planes in a 80 person server with x20 growth

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102619485334143006/1344365437915496469/1AAFA2A6305B4D1C.mp4?ex=67c0a561&is=67bf53e1&hm=44527087c91db44868a92e6aaf550035bdc7568e7375b6807163dcb91e73c08e& @worthy steeple troodon is NOT 120hp

I was 33kg in this clip, herrera's bite does 30 dmg

I should not have been even orange if the 120hp thing was true

[worthy steeple]

ohhh good to hear that tbh.. 120hp troodon would be insane

[cosmic pelican]

💔

[worthy steeple]

🥹

but since they’re adjusting the roster, maybe they will give troodon some kind of buffs

[carmine tundra]

kindest teno ive ever seen ngl

[crimson crater]

bro has officially lost it

[worthy steeple]

😭

[edgy crow]

ain't no way

[sharp patrol]

please buff troodon

[lyric kestrel]

the new grass coming in should help troodon massively

[steep gazelle]

@glass harbor Cerato player wanting to nerf the most nerfed dino in the game? Kskskskskss

[elder steppe]

@glass harbor Your first mistake was fighting 3 carno's, even sub ones.

[iron tree]

Cera players when 3 carnos can actually kill them (too op...plz nerf)

If we take its charge we'd have to revert the damage, weight and speed nerf which cera players would not like either

[viscid mica]

@steep furnace so like killing cera as a FG trio of omni is super easy it sounds more like you need better stam management

Cuz a full stam bars from omni does 1k damage on mount

Meaning 3 at even 60 or higher will Garantee a kill

Hell you could probably get away with 45/50 stam

[steep furnace]

simply not true. me and 3 omnis pinned a cera (all FG) for all of our stamina bars and another fg was biting its head and it lived.

[viscid mica]

On officials? Cuz then you either encountered a hacker or are lying

Ask anyone who frequents this channel or main 1k damage for full grapple

[steep furnace]

well then it was a hacker cause i was on a offcial server. either hacker or it got glitched

[viscid mica]

Left clicking?

For damage?

[steep furnace]

i belive all of us were left clicking. or i was the only one

[viscid mica]

Ya cuz yall SHOULDA killed it

[steep furnace]

i was so confused why we didnt kill it. one of us got killed by it and the others walked off cause i had 0 stam

i mean if we should have killed it then omni is fine. just thought 3 omnis couldnt pin a cera and kill it

[viscid mica]

Ya that is odd even with body buff it shouldn’t survive 3 fulls

[steep furnace]

it was on official so the chances of it being a hacker arent bad.

[somber leaf]

I think Dilos should be just a tiny bit tankier. I think they should still be the squishball they are but I think if they were just a little bit tankier they would feel better to play. Probably also make them grow a tiny bit faster. As a Dilo i feel waaay more of a prey animal than with any other dino I've played with and Dilophosaurus is my favorite dino

[edgy crow]

I CHOSE THE WRONG CHANNEL

#balance-feedback message

[split epoch]

I see you

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-22669238

minor fracture damage on charge??

[slim dragon]

I really don't think dilo needs more health, as it doesn't need to expose itself to danger anyway

[edgy crow]

like

what

[slim dragon]

It also has one of the highest killing potentials in the game so it doesn't need to be shorter to grow either

[split epoch]

Carno currently gets either out-turned or outweighed by the rest of the roster.

“Small game hunter” Carno was a completely unnecessary nerf.

Additionally, fracture damage is very underused in the current roster. It’s borderline trivial on Pachy right now.

Question, does Deino bite deal fracture damage?

[edgy crow]

no

pachy is the only thing that does fracture damage besides falling

for good reason

[split epoch]

Seems like a waste of a damage type, with how underused Pachy is.

[somber leaf]

I don't play Carno but they are fine? Nobody is out there hunting them and they are stronger or faster than most. 2 carnos can usually brute force most normal prey and even deal with bigger packs of smaller. Meanwhile Dilos are playing 5D chess in order to get a basic meal vs an outnumbered enemy.

[split epoch]

Charging a Dibble of roughly equal size and not triggering a knockdown, only to get punished on hit with a knockdown from the Dibble’s own non-committal attack, followed up by another attack during my getup is not fine.

[somber leaf]

If they make it so Carnos also take down Diablos easily I am never playing Diablo again. There already are tons of ceras in the highlands and Dilo can take down DIablos from poking because of their ranged attack and fast also agile movement speed. The only thing that brings me joy is hearing the sounds of Carnos because at least I know I am safe. Having in mind that bigger carnivores are coming to the isle, no I don't think Carnos need buffs. Not to mention the big packs of Omnis that don't care if half of them die as long as they get to take you down.

My overall opinion is that all herbs should be weaker but grow faster so carnivores actually choose to hunt them and people are fine with that cuz at least they can grow new ones rather fast, but thats probably not happening

[split epoch]

Dibble is kind of overtuned right now, it has good stats all across the board with little to no flaws.

Carno needs better stats so it can decrease Cerato numbers through competition.

[slim dragon]

That's an excellent way to convince everyone to stop playing herbivores altogether

[slim dragon]

The issue isn't carno or dibble, it's cera being overtuned

[split epoch]

Cerato is only good because everyone else sucks right now.

[somber leaf]

I play mostly herbivores but its kinda boring, I don't really feel as prey cuz I'm stronger than most if not outnumbered. Getting meals is easy and I don't feel threatened. But when I die cuz i was outnumbered i just feel cheated cuz i have to spend a bunch of time being afk again to grow another one

As a herb i feel less of a prey than when playing any carnivore

[split epoch]

Carno already had defined strengths and weaknesses in Spiro. It’s fast, but it’s easily outmaneuvered.

If they left it as is, you wouldn’t be seeing so many Ceratos.

[somber leaf]

You see it in servers too, herbs go out of their way to hunt down carnivores cuz they know they are stronger and they're bored. Carnivores wont go for them cuz there is probably another carnivore nearby that is an easier and safer kill

[slim dragon]

It's because we have big herbivores but no big carnivores yet, or carnivores supposed to hunt large prey, except for omni and troodon

[still ibex]

Therizino is gonna go so hard if it ever happens

[slim dragon]

No, cerato is clearly overtuned

[edgy crow]

big game hunter

[somber leaf]

Bigger carnivores wont change it lol tenontos, gallis and pachis will not care at all about bigger carnivores

[slim dragon]

Why wouldn't they ? You expect a teno to be killing an allo ?

[split epoch]

Carno’s kit is overall contradicting to its dev intended design. If it’s supposed to hunt small game, why is Dibble in its diet? It’s not built to fight Dibble in its current stats at all.

[slim dragon]

It's more so that diets make zero sense in this game

You can look at the diet of any dino and realize it's stupid as hell, carnivores and herbivores included

[somber leaf]

So you hunt juvis and younger diablos as a pack and be rewarded for it

the young stage of diablos is super long and its predictable where you can find them

[still ibex]

Havent seen a single Tree Star and thats simply unacceptable

https://tenor.com/view/tree-star-land-before-gif-12430338

[somber leaf]

"if u dont skill the first mutation before u reach ur second, u cant skill the first anymore. feel like this should be changed, for better abilities to adapt ur build to ur situation."
I feel like this is exactly why they are forcing the skip mechanic of mutations. I want it removed for a different reason. The tiny dinos in the game grow so fast, you just skip it by blinking an eye and that feels unfair

[split epoch]

If they want Carno to be small and weak, then what is Rugops for?

[somber leaf]

Well its not small and weak lmao

[slim dragon]

It's not small and weak

It's still over 1 ton

[somber leaf]

If Carno is small and weak then Dilos are non-existent

[split epoch]

And what is Dibble’s weight?

[somber leaf]

Why are you comparing Carno to the current appex herbivore lmao

[slim dragon]

3 tons, and ?

[somber leaf]

Diablo takes 5-7 hours to grow. there is ton of time for carnos to hunt younger ones

[slim dragon]

It's less than that, but diablo does take longer to grow than carno

[split epoch]

Mid tier weights and stats should really be closer to each other across the board so more of the roster is viable.

[bronze rapids]

wdym viable

[slim dragon]

Ok but they're not in the same tier
Carno is small-medium-mid tier while diablo is pseudo-high-apex-medium tier

[somber leaf]

The problem is that Allos should not be the solution to the herby strength problem. Carnos should be able to hunt tenos and pachis but tenos and pachis but the herbs are too strong

[slim dragon]

Carno can hunt pachy
Or it could if people would play pachy
Teno is larger than carno so carno has no reason to try to hunt it alone

[split epoch]

Ideally this year, mid-tier carnivore balance should have a healthy population distribution between Cerato, Carno, and Allo,

[somber leaf]

well the aint hunting Dryos or Gallis alone either cuz they outmannuver them easily

[slim dragon]

That's where skill comes into play

Since carno is faster and stronger than all of its prey, the prey stands a chance at escaping by outmanoeuvering it
That's how balance works

[somber leaf]

assuming everyone plays perfectly. You can't count skill into balance, you count the ability of things to happen

[split epoch]

At a hypothetical peak skill scenario, it will always come down to stats.

[slim dragon]

If everyone plays perfectly the prey survives because it's a survival game, not a kill game
But no one ever plays perfectly

Well actually, no
If everyone plays perfectly carno gets the kill because it gets a perfect, unreactable ambush and predicted it's prey's movements

[split epoch]

PvP is an essential aspect of carnivore gameplay, fighting game comparisons are inevitable.

[cosmic pelican]

Actually it doesnt, because the prey will never put itself in such a scenario to make that possible.

So no one dies or gets anything, thus nothing ever happens.

[bronze rapids]

[slim dragon]

It's forced to at times because everyone needs to eat and drink, and herbivore eating animations take stupidly long to finish

[cosmic pelican]

Graze✅

[slim dragon]

Yes
Killing everything with a 100% ratio isn't required however

[bronze rapids]

me when I go to unpopulated areas on the map

[somber leaf]

Its honestly weird for tenonto to be on the same tier with Diablo and Stego in the current stage of the game

[slim dragon]

Are you trying to convince me that the perfect Isle player will only ever graze and disregard every other source of food ?

[cosmic pelican]

As a herbivore, you can

[slim dragon]

They're not
Teno is medium-medium small apex tier, dibble is pseudo-high-apex-medium tier and stego is large-pseudo-low apex tier

[cosmic pelican]

Get saltwater mutation as maia, swim to one of the outer islands, graze.

You win the game

[somber leaf]

I play diablos cuz I like diablos but there is no reason for me to do so cuz Tenontos are just as good while growing faster

[bronze rapids]

your reason to play diablo is cuz u like it

[somber leaf]

You're objectively putting yourself in a disadvantage by picking Diablo over Tenonto cuz herbies being prey is a myth in this game. Thats been the case for a really long time.

[slim dragon]

lol

[bronze rapids]

i play dryo because i love them, not because theyre pvp gods

[slim dragon]

There was a short time where dibble was OP and dominated the roster
Every other time where there was a problematically overpowered dino in the roster, it was always a carnivore

[somber leaf]

it should be a carnivore, the problem is growing times cuz nobody wants to grow something for 5 hours if its meant to just die

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy has been bad for so long people forgot it existed... we should never forget u6 pachy 💔

[bronze rapids]

</3

[split epoch]

In a perfect world, I’d be playing Minmi in a swamp.

[bronze rapids]

oh my god yes

i love u minmi

[somber leaf]

Diablos is rn a very balanced dino when it comes to herbs and danger level that it is experiencing. Its a pack of Ceras and Dilos that are the only realistic danger to a Diablo which is a good case. Tenontos don't have dont have that balance at all. They are faster than Ceras, and can outstamina/outdamage Dilos, and can straight up kill carnos.

[split epoch]

Hear me out, what if we had pre-nerf Carno and pre-nerf Pachy existing alongside current Cerato and Dibble?

[slim dragon]

They're faster than cera because they lose in a fight against a cera
They can kill carnos and dilos because they cannot run from them
That's the very definition of balance

[slim dragon]

Powercreep

[split epoch]

Powercreep is better than having bad characters

[slim dragon]

Nah

[somber leaf]

have in mind that Dilos are supposed to hunt carnos lmao

[slim dragon]

It's a form of balancing that works less and less as time goes

[somber leaf]

Its supposed to be a game of filling niches to create an ecosystem and herbivores are not fulfilling that

niche carnivores cant fulfill their niche needs cuz their niche herbivores are build to counter their niche carnivores

Diablo is a good case of a good herbie, i think the same should be done to the others

[split epoch]

Why is this community so opposed to making Carno viable again?

[somber leaf]

Cuz Carnos are a manice already

[slim dragon]

Everything in this game is made to have the ability to survive, that's how the balancing is made

[split epoch]

I don’t understand why. The alternative is to have 3-4 top-tiers dominate the game forever.

[somber leaf]

well its not how its made rn, cuz herbivore gameplay is not survivng its going out of your way to hunt carnivores cuz you're bored

[slim dragon]

That's because, as I mentioned, we have small/medium carnivores and big herbivores

[somber leaf]

adding bigger carnivores is not the solution lmao

[slim dragon]

If your issue is that herbivores don't get hunted, then it absolutely is the solution

[somber leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-played-these-games-before-seong-gi-hun-squid-game-i've-played-these-games-already-netflix-gif-16480153790313233198

its not cuz its been used as a solution before and it was horrible

[slim dragon]

When ?

[somber leaf]

Legacy

[steep gazelle]

because they love how op Cerato is at the moment and don't want Carnos to be a threat to them, but they should, because many servers have an infestation of Ceratos that never attack each other. Carno was made to be a predator of small game, but he doesn't do it so well, because he spends almost all of his stam even fighting against Omnis or Dillos, the way it was before the nerf was good

[slim dragon]

Don't take legacy as a basis for anything regarding evrima please, the two games work completely different

Also in legacy carnivores completely dominated the entire roster

[somber leaf]

specific carnivores dominated it

[split epoch]

I think it’s important that we have a balanced roster across the mid-tiers as a foundation before apexes come to the equation.

[somber leaf]

which is exactly what will happen if they leave the solution to just bigger carnivores AND faster carnivores

[split epoch]

If that is the case, then that is extremely shortsighted

[slim dragon]

Large carnivores hunt large herbivores
Small carnivores hunt small herbivores
I don't know what else you want

[somber leaf]

thats a very pink tinted glass view

[steep gazelle]

The devs simply don't want to balance the dinos already released to maintain the community, they only think about releasing new dinos when there are many problems to be fixed.

[slim dragon]

That's literally how it works ???
Of course there are exceptions, like omni, dilo and troodon being able to kill things much larger than themselves
But that isn't really an argument in your point's favor

[somber leaf]

if allos are faster than ceras and stronger than carnos, they will be able to do both big and small game + eating the smaller game carnivores

[somber leaf]

and it needs to be that if its gonna hunt tenos

[slim dragon]

That's why allo should be limited so it's not able to outcompete everything else

[slim dragon]

If allo is both faster and stronger than teno, goodbye teno population

[steep gazelle]

If allo run more than 40km I'll stop playing with teno, the game balance would go to waste

[slim dragon]

With reason
Why play teno when you can play the superior allo in all regards ?

[steep gazelle]

I hope the devs think very carefully about the game balance issue after this hordtest, both in the dinos that are already in the game and that need rework and the allo

[somber leaf]

thats exactly your suggested solution lmao

[slim dragon]

They should begin to monitor balance carefully at some point, for now as I've heard they prioritize making everything playable rather than well balanced as they add more playables, hopefully that will be soon enough

[slim dragon]

Proving you didn't understand my point
Allo doesn't need to be both faster and stronger than teno
It only needs to be stronger and fast enough than tenos have a hard time escaping it, making ambushing them properly an almost guaranteed kill

That doesn't involve allo being faster than teno in the slightest

[somber leaf]

if its not faster then the ambush needs to be done up to the tenos head

cuz otherwise they will both just hold w

and teno will get away

[slim dragon]

Yes, that's what ambushes are for

[slim dragon]

That is precisely the point

[somber leaf]

well thats not gonna happen lmao

[slim dragon]

Skill issue then ?

People manage to get ambushed by stegos, I don't know how will an allo never be able to ambush anything

[steep gazelle]

In my opinion, this should have already been done since the extreme nerf of Carno, which did not make it useless, but having such a low life but a grow time 50 minutes longer than Cerato should have its benefits.

[somber leaf]

its not hard to not get ambushed. Teno should be slower but have more stamina so it makes sure to have distance advantage

[slim dragon]

Yes, ideally they should strive to make every update properly balanced
But I understand with their limited manpower, they'd rather care about bringing the rest of the game in a playable state as quickly as possible

[slim dragon]

It would require either allo to have dramatically low stamina (speaking something like 30 seconds) or you expect tenos to be able to consistently be able to spot an allo coming through the bushes over 100 meters away

[somber leaf]

you should be aiming to outrun your carnivores not outpseed them

[slim dragon]

How do you outrun something if you're slower

[steep gazelle]

really, what remains is to accept and wait until they release some more dinos. I believe that this year 3 new dinos will arrive

[somber leaf]

starting to run earlier

High stamina and tankiness was the whole survival strategy of Parasaurs and it worked well. It can work good for most herbies to a lesser extent

[slim dragon]

But if it's faster then it catches up to you and you die

[slim dragon]

Yes because parasaurs were usually larger than their predators, or traveled in herds
Not like how it worked irl really matters here, as it's a game

[somber leaf]

it worked like this in The Isle 💀

[slim dragon]

It didn't work, and that is precisely why the game isn't balanced this way anymore

[somber leaf]

it's catching up by the speed difference. if teno is running 40/h and the Allo is running 45/h, the allo is catching up by 5/h which is not fast. If you have reasonable distance you outrun them

[slim dragon]

No land animal has a sprint time under 1 min now (and even that is extremely low)
So you'd need to make the speed difference low enough that allo cannot catch up with a teno in that 1 min of time
Do you realize how long 1 minute is in a chase ?

[slim dragon]

5 km/h difference is EXTREMELY fast lol

[dusky surge]

45KM/HR ALLO JESUS CHRIST

[edgy crow]

LMAO WHAT

[somber leaf]

thats just example numbers of how catching up works

[edgy crow]

MAYBE WE CAN PUT OUR DIFFERENCES ON TITANOBOA ASIDE TO FIGHT THIS

[steep gazelle]

Bro, troodon speed is 45 km xd

[slim dragon]

Ok so let's do the math
A 40 km/h teno is 11.1 m/s
A 45 km/h allo is 12.5 m/s
Which means a teno can cover 666m in one minute
Allo can cover 750 in one minute
Which means that the teno has to start running from the allo at least when it's 84m away to have a chance at escaping it
Otherwise it gets caught up to and dies

[steep gazelle]

This guy must be really crazy to want Allo to run almost at the speed of an omni

[somber leaf]

Bro nobody is saying that

[slim dragon]

In other words, if allo and teno start running side by side, teno has to start running 8 seconds before allo does if it wants to win the race

[steep gazelle]

You gave an example of something that would be completely lame if it were true. Allo should be slower than teno but faster than diablo

38-39km is good

[somber leaf]

example was for maths sake not a suggestion

[slim dragon]

Unless it's stronger than diablo (which I hope it isn't) in which case it should be slower

[somber leaf]

And no it shouldn't be slower than a teno if its supposed to be hunting tenos cuz i will just hold W. If your prey is faster than you then youre just gonna hunt the other carnivores rather than the herbie. Thats what always happens

[steep gazelle]

I think the diablo will be able to take down an adult allo without any problems, I think the weight they say the allo will have is 2.8t

[edgy crow]

Except if Teno can't fight and can't run, it just dies

[dusky surge]

then ambush the teno

if the teno sees you, tough luck, that's a failed hunt

also i love the idea that allo not being able to catch teno would result in it hunting the other carnis, who are faster than teno, bar deino and rex, who uh

yea i doubt allo's hunting them effectively

oh and cerato, who is effectively the same speed as tenonto so it's still fine

[somber leaf]

Also you guys are proving my original point that allos will not fix the game

Thats what the whole thing is about

[dusky surge]

who said that lol

[somber leaf]

Bubu is arguing that the addition of Allos will fix the balance of niches when it comes to herbivores as food

[dusky surge]

knowing him that is absolutely not what he argued

lmao

[somber leaf]

I said " Playing a herbie doesnt make you feel like prey at all, you grow up, get bored and start hunting carnivores cuz you are that powerful" and they said " thats cuz allo is not added yet " and im arguing that Allo is not the solution to this

[dusky surge]

there's no way he said that lol

i know this dude i'mma figure out what he actually said

no he literally just said big herbis feel unthreatened because they don't have big carnis, which is fair

if you don't have a pred that matches your strength of course you'll feel unthreatened

you don't nerf the herbi to be fearful of creatures well below its range

[somber leaf]

it doesnt matter if youre stronger if youre slower

I never play speed herbies cuz they're [Invincible card screen]

[dusky surge]

that's why people need to learn to ambush

like irl, you jump the rabbit before it sees you. you don't just walk up to it, then go "oh dang it ran away"

[somber leaf]

is there an ambush mechanic ?

[dusky surge]

yes. it's called crouching and being behind cover

[somber leaf]

yeah that doesnt work

[dusky surge]

it does

your footsteps and idle sounds are silenced

and you're able to get close

i've done it this way many times

[somber leaf]

irl you scare it so hard it gets a heart attack or you trap it, or you're faster than it

[dusky surge]

????

[somber leaf]

its always so goofy when i see people trying it

its a 3rd person camera

[dusky surge]

brother idk how to tell you this but rabbits are indeed hunted by things incapable of outrunning or trapping it

so are deer despite being ridiculously fast

gazelle get hunted by lions

despite the lions being WAY slower

[dusky surge]

which is something you have to be aware of while ambushing

you can't just crouch and assume instant stealth lol

if you can't hunt without needing to be faster, i genuinely don't know what to tell you

[somber leaf]

I'm sorry but ambushing as it works in the game rn ain't it

I am a herbie and i know it doesnt work

[dusky surge]

i play a carni and know it does

i've caught gallis as raptor tons of times

only because i waited in ambush and attacked when their guard was down

[somber leaf]

holding w from something that is slower than you is just too strong

[dusky surge]

it's a perfectly vald method of survival

it's up to you to use your playables tools to deal with it

if you can't do that, then why are you playing that carnivore

[somber leaf]

The only times i get hunted down as a galli or a fast dino is because im goofing around from boredome which is the problem

it doesnt mean it works if youre catching me because im bored and putting myself in danger on purpose

most herbs are like that

[dusky surge]

i get them when they're genuinely trying to survive lol, not goofing around

wait for them to start eating and drinking and they lose visual

if they don't react fast enough you can kill 'em

same will work with allo, who can pin its prey

if it catches you before you can run, you're dead

[somber leaf]

there used to be an ambush mechanic that worked rather well and maybe they should think on adding it back in. Then ambushing might be a viable argument

[dusky surge]

god no

[somber leaf]

even if youre 1 meter off you aint killing me cuz I will just hold W

[dusky surge]

that mechanic is literally the worst

absolutely balance destroying nightmare of a mechanic

you'd have to buff the speed of every herbivore to compensate

or nerf the non-ambush speed of every carnivore

causing an utter overreliance on it

[somber leaf]

well it sounds to me that ambushing is an overreliance rn

[dusky surge]

not really? most herbivores are slow enough that many of our carnivores can just catch them

galli ain't even a herbivore too lmao

[somber leaf]

tenos easily kill anything catches them and if the stronger dinos are slower then ambush is a must

and it needs to be a REALLY good ambush

up to the head of the teno

[dusky surge]

no? if you're an allo you can just pin it

you don't need to touch the head lol

[slim dragon]

If you need to rely on a speed boost to perform an ambush, then maybe you're just not good at ambushing

[dusky surge]

^

[somber leaf]

even if you're 1 meter off i will just hold w

[dusky surge]

cool

then i failed the hunt

shame on me lol

[somber leaf]

peak survival gameplay

[dusky surge]

yes that is survival gameplay

[somber leaf]

the goal is to make it more fun for herbivores lmao

[dusky surge]

you survived the encounter by using the tools at your disposal

[somber leaf]

holding W is not exciting survival

[dusky surge]

narrowly escaping a carnivore by a mere meter sounds pretty fun to me

[slim dragon]

So dying with no way counter it is more fun ?

[dusky surge]

okay the alternative is dying because you can't fight it lol

maybe don't play the fast animals if you don't like the gameplay of the fast animals

[somber leaf]

yeah because I would be surviving by choosing territory and herding

[dusky surge]

as a dryo?

"back off rex this is dryo territory"

[slim dragon]

When you think about it, carni gameplay is just holding W and pressing left click. It's not exactly fun either

[dusky surge]

true lol

[slim dragon]

And half of the game is just not pressing any button and moving your mouse to look around
Boring af

[slim dragon]

THERE IT IS
THE HERD UP ARGUMENT
My day has been made

[somber leaf]

dying with a fast grow with it being hard to counter carnis is fun gameplay yes

[dusky surge]

being territorial is well and good until you realise that sometimes an animal needs to run to survive

[bronze rapids]

we all know rex fears the dryo

[dusky surge]

the rex trembles in sight of the true King

[slim dragon]

You have a weird concept of fun

If I can choose between being free food and the one who eats free food, I'd choose being the one who eats free food
At least I get to do something

[somber leaf]

youre saying that as if you're spawning in the mouth of predators

Diablo is my example of a good herbie cuz it has predators

[slim dragon]

Cool, I get to eat grass for 30 minutes before I inevitably die
Makes it SO MUCH better and much more entertaining

[dusky surge]

it's slow lol

[somber leaf]

Yeah

[dusky surge]

that's the only defining difference

[slim dragon]

And it has tools to survive all of them

[dusky surge]

i personally enjoy flight over fight

so i hate the idea of being punished for narrowly escaping attack

[bronze rapids]

same

[dusky surge]

my fave herbis are the tiny little flighty ones

like dryo and hypsi

[somber leaf]

then carnivore on carnivore diets is gonna remain

[bronze rapids]

!!!! yess i love my silly little guys

[slim dragon]

It doesn't have to

But honestly diets being species-based is terrible and needs to go

[somber leaf]

I thought about it and honestly the funnest time i had with speed "prey" dinos is when i was faced faster carnivores. Running from raptors and troodons with a hypsi is exciting cuz it turns in a game of outmanuvvering where the predator has the advantage of speed and I have the advantage of "future sight" cuz i know what I will do while the predator is guessing

[slim dragon]

It works when there is a difference in agility big enough to be taken advantage of
But it becomes less and less viable as things get bigger, because they are also less agile

Also very small things have the option of hiding in vegetation, while larger things do not

[somber leaf]

well its not just agility in the game. There are tons of factors that herbies can use for their survival even when facing what should be stronger carnivores

[slim dragon]

It's not very complicated
Fight or flight
The tools teno can use are either fight back, or use its superior speed to escape

[elfin night]

What’s the argument gang?

[somber leaf]

Predatores should be stronger/faster than the prey and i don't believe that makes the prey unplayable and completely removing their chances of survival

[elfin night]

That is stupid lol

[somber leaf]

and im saying this from a herb's perspective

[elfin night]

Carnivore bias

Herbs should always be good at either flight or fight in most matchups

And then there’s a few that are more nuanced

[somber leaf]

good at doesn't mean better than

i agree with this otherwise

I am never afraid of something im faster than and carnivores will seldom fight something that is stronger than them ( with few exceptions with which im happy about)

[elfin night]

Better than is implied because if you’re not good in a matchup where you need to be, you die

Of course a rex will be stronger than a dryo

But it is totally fine for a herbivore to be stronger than a carnivore it cannot reliably run away from

[somber leaf]

there are other factors that can balance it out and be more fun for the herbie

As a herbie I will go out of my way to fight those weaker carnivores cuz im bored, and not afraid of stronger ones cuz im faster than them

the game has more factors than this that I think need to be emphasised for the fun of herbies, cuz being faster and stronger than your predatores is not fun

[elfin night]

When I talk about running away, I don’t mean solely speed

[somber leaf]

and I use herbies as a stand in for "prey"

I think you should definately have a chance of running away

[elfin night]

Also “stronger” accounts for all combat

Game needs to be fair and it luckily is more often than not. All deaths to anything but cheaters or bugs are preventable

[elfin night]

Weaker carnivores tend to have tools to avoid that too, not a game balance problem

Even if a juvi cera or carno gets killed by a galli, that is on them

[somber leaf]

I think it should be harder for herbies to survive against carnivores cuz as i log in as a herbie I accept that I will be preyed upon, which is not the case cuz im either faster or stronger while also having an easier time surviving food wise

[elfin night]

Why inherently harder than carnivores

[somber leaf]

cuz thats part of my expectations as I long in as a prey species

[elfin night]

To make it more worth it to play carnis when most people main those anyway?

[somber leaf]

I have insanely easier time when it comes to diet

[elfin night]

Why does prey equate harder life? They’re all animals thriving in an ecosystem they’re all adapted to and just as successful

[somber leaf]

people main carnis cuz its more exciting mostly. I am giving up on herbies cuz it gets boring

[elfin night]

If so

That is such a cartoonish way to portray nature

Herbivores and animals that are prey for others aren’t just there to get bodied by the big badass Stompy apex predators. They are all surviving and are competent at that

A zebra is no less competent at survival than a leopard

[somber leaf]

dont get on with the realism factor cuz what people are going for makes even less sense

[elfin night]

People main carnivores or play them more often because, yes, their gameplay loop is at least perceived to be more appealing. But also because of the cultural bias towards carnivores

That is a huge factor

[elfin night]

Sure, I don’t care about realism tbh. I could also give you the game design argument that making half or more of the roster deliberately worse for the sake of “excitement” is a terrible idea

[somber leaf]

Well keeping it the way rn is a bad idea cuz like i said, being able to outrun something takes away all fear from it and being stronger by it means more often than not it wont attack you

[elfin night]

Brug

You can be ambushed by it even if you are vastly superior in terms of speed, or they could be competent players for once.

And if you are stronger but slower, packs can still be a threat

Also, don’t you think this applies to carnivores as well? It affects everyone

Why would I be afraid of ceras as a herra if I can outrun them or climb a tree. And why would carno have to worry about a single troodon?

[somber leaf]

carnis need to hunt for their food, herbies don't which increases the excitement of carni gameplay. Which often ends up being a carni vs carni diet every single iteration of the isle

cuz if hunting herbies isn't viable then canis will hunt each other while herbies die... from boredom

[elfin night]

I feel like you are ignoring a few factors

First, carni on carni predation tends to be more common because carnivores are inherently more played