balance-feedback-discussion

[iron tree]

It can do damage. That's op as hell

[tight snow]

Woah

[elfin night]

it can grow and walk. Plz nerf

[tight snow]

He cant be more right

[iron tree]

It can be selected in the character menu. Please nerf it

Just kidding. Buff pachy.

650kg pachy would be so awesome

[tight snow]

And be prepared bcs i think rex will be able to EAT, it will get a nerf one second after being in game

[elfin night]

no self stun 650kg pachy with bonebreak stun on enemies if they dont get knocked down

[iron tree]

Nah

[steep gazelle]

dude, you got killed by a group of omnis while solo as dillo. What's op with that?

[iron tree]

The self stun is fine if they give it stun on fracture and buff it to 650kg

Currently pachy relies on a literal rock to survive omni packs

[tight snow]

Relax, we saw the omnis was hacking, so chill out

I already deleted my feedback, it doesnt do nothing if the omnis were hacking

[iron tree]

I had a pack of 8 omnis trying to get me and whenever they tried to get me I just bonked them off my rock

[tight snow]

Lol

[elfin night]

deal

[tight snow]

I did smthng similar with a troodon, in highlands, a troodon jumped on me when i was about to fall , but i moved enough to make the troodon fail hos pounce and fall to thd death

[iron tree]

The omnis and I had a war

It all started when a juvi omni tried to pounce me

[tight snow]

Always the smaller, the one who does most stupid things than all, and the one who thinks he cant die anyway

XD

[iron tree]

I killed it mid pounce and the omnis kept trying to get me. They lost every fight and when they went healing I got off my rock and grabbed some food and water. I killed eventually most of them before I left the area and logged out.

[iron tree]

Fr. They pounced me headfirst too

[tight snow]

Not so intelligent, as i said, they think they csnt die

[iron tree]

Well...it tried to pounce me headfirst

Maybe don't pounce a pachycephalosaurus headfirst when it's staring at you. It's not gonna go well

[tight snow]

Maybe, and just maybe

[stable crescent]

Honestly it feels like a lot of the people who play this game want certain types Dino’s to be insanely broken and hate new ideas lol

[eager saddle]

the reason no other carnivore aside from croc doesn't get grabbed is because there is no other carnivore apex

Rex won't be able to get grabbed

Also grab needs to be OP because it's not going to get you otherwise

and even then, you can still escape if the croc angles it wrong

[stable crescent]

Yes I agree I get what your saying but currently it’s almost impossible for the croc to miss because it’s so easy and a insta kill but that's besides the point I dont think he should be nerfed into ablovion what I was saying is for it to be more realistic

[eager saddle]

well you'll be happy to know it is confirmed to get a kit adjustment then

(we don't know what it is yet, just fyi)

[stable crescent]

Because something that ways 8 kg despite it having a strong and beefy neck it still should not be able to just pick up and run with something that ways 4 tons it's just not realistic it would be far more realistic if the Croc has to drag the dino

[eager saddle]

8kg?

[stable crescent]

How much does it way I could have got it wrong?

[eager saddle]

I think you just made a typo and meant 8 ton

I just asked to confirm x)

[stable crescent]

Yea it was a typo my bad

[eager saddle]

you're good 👍

[stable crescent]

Also thank you for not being rude

Idk it was just a idea I put out there because its realistic

[eager saddle]

I would prefer if it was a mix of both tbf

[stable crescent]

Because modern day Crocs if there huntin like a deer they don't fit the entire thing in there mouth they drag the deer and sink it

[eager saddle]

[stable crescent]

Yea I agree

That's why I so think it should be like that but only for heavy/ big dinosaurs and also not a massive debuff like idk 3 or 4 speed dif lower

[eager saddle]

Deino is a very annoying thing to balance. It needs to be able to guarantee a kill because it's waterlocked and can't always have food available but at the same time, it oneshotting people is always a frustrating thing (across multiple games)

[stable crescent]

And when I saw faster drain of Stam I mean like 0.3 faster Stam drain then when u normal carry stuff

[stable crescent]

Yea it's very hard to balance honestly they should make it's food drain alot slower

Idk it's just the thing I recommend would not really get in the way with hunting it's more for realism

[eager saddle]

hm true but it would have a slight downside if you try to grab something in a group

[stable crescent]

Honestly j think that's the main reason alot of people sis not like the idea they took it as a big nerf in reality all I'm saying is a very slight low down and very slight more Stam drain but really won't affect hunting

[eager saddle]

as the dragging will take more time than the grabbing

[stable crescent]

Yea True

[eager saddle]

it wouldn't matter with very light targets tho, but you would have to determine a certain threshold for that

[stable crescent]

Yea I was thinking it would be in the mid like smaller targets would just be picked up and bigger targets would be fine it would make a Between cause rn it's your died or your not dies or well it's gonna be like that with rex lol

[eager saddle]

Curious to see if rex will be able to get grabbed while swimming but I think it won’t

[stable crescent]

Yea prob not I wonder if allo will be able to be grabbed when on land

I hope not

Honestly my guess is allo is gonna way like 6.5 tons

Around so prob not gonna get picked up

[eager saddle]

I don’t particularly disagree with your feedback btw, I just couldn’t really agree with every point in it due to phrasing

Like the carnivore thing

[stable crescent]

The original feed back or about allo?

[eager saddle]

Original

[stable crescent]

Yea

[stable crescent]

U good

I made a suggestion yesterday it had like 30 down votes and no updates lol

[eager saddle]

What was it about?

[stable crescent]

A very slight nerf on herras jump attack

All it was really is there is no reason a small dino around 100kg should be able to one shot something 800kg by just falling on it in my opinion

[eager saddle]

Which dino did you have in mind for the 800 one? Cera?

[stable crescent]

Yea I've got one shoted as a 60% grown max hp cerato

Idk just the main point I made is it feels a bit much

Idk it's just funny because some one DM me that they thinks its realistic because a 100kg dinosaur falling at terminal velocity would kill alot

[eager saddle]

Hmm imo it isn’t that strange when you take velocity and those claws into account. The weight of the object you’re killing wouldn’t particularly matter.

[stable crescent]

And I agree butttt they don't go terminal velocity

[eager saddle]

I hope not

[stable crescent]

For a human it takes around 20 seconds to reach terminal velocity

Herras are not sky divers there not jumping from that high

[eager saddle]

I think it should be possible with a headshot. Not a bodyshot.

[stable crescent]

It takes most of the time for them 2-7 to reach the ground there not anywhere near terminal velocity

Like u know what I mean I get it if there falling from a cliff but not half way up a tree like what happened to me

[eager saddle]

(Also, cute jeff picture. Love the little guy)

[stable crescent]

Same lol

Jeff kinda a menace tho in the game lol

[eager saddle]

I got my first hexa with him recently

[stable crescent]

Nice

I don't really see Jeff alot not play him but he cute

[eager saddle]

But yeah they reach terminal velocity really REALLY fast.

It doesn’t really look different if I recall

[stable crescent]

?

[eager saddle]

Once herra falls a certain distance, they spread the limbs but it doesn’t matter how far they fall

[stable crescent]

That's true but still some of the distances they fall and kill from is wild

[eager saddle]

But I don’t know much about how they work regarding that, I’d have to ask a friend

[stable crescent]

I don't the most about it to

You know there is alot of stuff happening it's wild the isle is gonna do alot and also marval rivals termament I'm excited for

[eager saddle]

Well my game has the 99% loading bug every game so I can’t do that😅

[stable crescent]

Rip

[eager saddle]

But I should go sleep. It is late here. Have a good day/night and it was a good chat👍🏻

[stable crescent]

Yea have a good night to

[haughty grotto]

@zinc hollow theres a complete ptera rework coming

[minor axle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778350260027129865/1343176921168744458/Deinozuch-Albertozaur.jpg?ex=67bcfb3d&is=67bba9bd&hm=c4fcc857af5f479903fbc45a17088d457c7398f433035b4b0e6be6396d11b794&

I doubt the devs will do that, but that is always how I wished crocodilians (whether it had been sarcho or deino etc) were treated when added. Extreme patience predators, instead of Guzzlords

oops, added the image not the post xd

#balance-feedback message

[carmine tundra]

@abstract yew in my personal opinion pachy should not be getting buffed

before the update, 1 skilled pachy could demolish 4 adult ceras and it was ridicilous

the self stun is necessary anyway, it can literally break your bones and severely injure you, if they miss that opportunity then they deserve to have an opening for any attacks

[keen plover]

No it couldn't? Pachy hasn't had stuns since before Ceratos release.

[timber tusk]

Agreed. Deino and Megalania will be among the very small list of cold blooded playables, and it’d be cool if that reflected itself in both diet and movement speed. Imagine Megalania sunning itself before going on the hunt to get a speed and stamina boost, or sunning before nightfall to keep itself faster, longer.

[abstract yew]

Pachy is the only animal in the game currently that gets punished for using its own ability, even if does so successfully. That simply shouldn't happen. Pachy shouldn't get punished if it does what it's supposed to.

[minor axle]

I hadn’t really thought much about the sunning part. That could definitely be interesting.

Would help to balance the long stomach times. It could also be used to make them (especially megalania) more dangerous daytime hunters.

Not sure how they would do it. The simplest way would just be the inverse of dilo, being buffed at night (and comparative debuffed in the day, or however they’d prefer to put it). More complex but harder to implement might be taking the sun into account (might not be great with how many storms there are tho xd)

[edgy crow]

Herrera gets knocked down if it pounces something from a height that would normally bone break it, if it has enlarged meniscus

pedantics but true

[minor axle]

That’s misusing your ability smh

[timber tusk]

From a game dev perspective, I think a temperature system would be a huge pain, BUT, it would also annoy players if “Deino moves slower when cold.” Realistic but annoying.

SO, the alternative is to buff only. Leave their base speed where it is and only program a way for the player animal to check if it’s in direct sunlight or shadow. If the former, up the buff incrementally; if the later, lower the buff incrementally.

That would leave their un-buffed speed and stam playable. Also, to make it full circle, tie the exact same buff to digestion. So if food is scarce, find some shade or dive deep to slow digestion until you see Ai spawn in or heat players nearby. This would also mean that these cold blooded playables would, totally organically digest slower at night.

The lighting in game rocks, so the animals just need a way to sense it.

I’m hoping Megalania will also be a heavy TANK with a solid tail whip for defense. Living reptile predators move then stop, move them stop, lunge then rest. The current Dinosaur playstyle for hunters isn’t that. It’s very active and mobile, with strafing around and circling being pretty important.

So Megalania being able to tank hits like a Land Deino before pivoting and charging at high speed will after if it’s gonna feel like actually playing as a Komodo dragon the size of a car.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

There is a reason it can. Those deinos were unimaginably garbage lmao

if you lose SIX ADULT DEINOS to one stego I have no idea how you got those deinos in the first place

[elfin night]

That is actually hysterical

Bruh they just threw themselves to the grinder 😭 😭 😭

[slim dragon]

If all six deinos managed to land as few as 1 headbite or 2 body bites before dying the stego would be dead
So I can only assume they were just watching

How many headshots with powerswing does a stego need to kill a deino ? 2 ?

[elfin night]

3

Also the usual ptera stam complaint post

#balance-feedback message @zinc hollow bruh learn how to use that playable 💀 not only that is a laughable hyperbole because ptera can easily fly for like 10-15 minutes and have to rest for 4, but also you can always choose not to burn the entire bar and manage your altitude to be more stamina efficient on your own

Ptera is the single most effective traveler already. It just needs some brainpower to function effectively

2-3 minutes of 0-100% stam regen and 20-25 minutes of flight would be so brainless 😭

I can only imagine how many people are going to say quetz is trash when it releases and it can fly across half of gateways wasting like 30% stam and in a few minutes

[slim dragon]

80% less stamina consumption would be 1h15 of flight
With 2 minutes stam regen
Balanced

[elfin night]

I’m telling you

If Quetz is any similar (which in fact should be more exigent if it can hunt stuff like lone gallis and omnis), people are gonna massively complain about it

[dusky surge]

i genuinely wonder how quetz will be balanced, especially with the new thermal currents

[slim dragon]

People will actually complain quetz can't 1v1 a rex

[dusky surge]

true lol

"but in this devblog you described quetz as an apex which means it's on the same level as rex what the hell"

[elfin night]

Some random quetz is gonna end up pinned/grappled by omnis and whoever was playing it will make sure we know in balance feedback

[slim dragon]

And they'll try to look smart in feedback going like "I think a fun and balanced mechanic would be to give quetz a special ability where it has a 75% chance of blinding an opponent permanently when pecking at their head, which also has the added benefit of being realistic, and adding to the horror aspect of the game"

[elfin night]

Why can’t they let the 100 kph top speed giant pterosaur just peck and adult spino to death trash design and game nerf spino even if it’s C tier, shouldn’t be able to one shot a 250kg pterosaur

[dusky surge]

people will be mad if quetz, the giant hollow-boned animal, isn't heavier than a cerato lol

[dusky surge]

i love it when people confuse horror and frustration

[slim dragon]

Oh btw
I had a dream about you the other day
In that dream your username was alpha alphonse
And you got banned from this server
Because your username was alpha alphonse
I just felt like you should know that very important piece of information

[dusky surge]

what the hell is alpha alphonse

[slim dragon]

Idk

[dusky surge]

okay i got my answer and it was infinitely funnier than I thought it could be

[slim dragon]

WHAT
I had no idea this even existed
I swear I'm not a Sonic fan

[elfin night]

Like the guy who once said they nerfed hypsi because according to a random website it could run at 70 kph irl which is effectly +10 strides per second as a bipedal animal

[slim dragon]

However I do know Sonic's second name is Maurice

[dusky surge]

okay perfect i'm doing this bit now

i cant pass up on this prophetic opportunity

[elfin night]

Insane

[slim dragon]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO you'll get banned

[elfin night]

I am betting someone will ask for stego nerfs in the first week after Rex shows up in the HT

[dusky surge]

oh for SURE

[slim dragon]

only in the first week ?

[dusky surge]

someone will lose to stego because they have no idea what they're doing and go ballistic in feedback

[elfin night]

Okay

First four days

Gotta give people some time to grow a rex first

[slim dragon]

So you assume people won't go fight a FG stego as a juvie rex and then complain about losing ?

[elfin night]

Or trike complaints because a deino can’t snatch them and they’re mean

[elfin night]

Okay, that’s a good point

[elfin night]

Deino can be swapped with cera too

Cera megapack owned by the triceratops will go hard

[dusky surge]

people will complain that they can't consistently hunt trike as rex tbh

[crimson crater]

the biggest thing it can 1 shot is 700KG and it requires max height + a headshot

[elfin night]

Mfw the anti facetank slow-yet-mobile powerhouse herbivore won’t let me trade with it if it sees me coming from a mile away

[elfin night]

Looking up:

[crimson crater]

based pfp

[dusky surge]

Thanks man I stole it myself

[dusky surge]

i went full send with my profile

[crimson crater]

Alphonse, Al, Alphie, Alpha, call him what you wish. He's a force to be reckoned with, and that's no question. With his immense power that has built up for years and his soul being chosen as a target by many, including his original rival, the Salesman, he's proven to be more than your normal hero. Able to wield three weapons bound to his soul, the Soul Sword, the Boosted Gear, and the Keyblade, he's learned how to battle like it's his life.

Alpha keeps his feelings to himself, and usually goes with the flow of the situation. However, when he isn't keeping his feelings to himself, he's usually destroying things without mercy

[dusky surge]

its perfect i know

[elfin night]

@dreamy abyss they make noise all the time, do you really need scent too?

[dusky surge]

in the new HT they are LOUD too

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message it is. stego takes 2x head shot damage when most playables take 1.5x head shot damage

[elfin night]

STEGO TAKES DOUBLE DAMAGE TO THE HEAD

[edgy crow]

YES IT DOES

[elfin night]

problem is that no land carnivore bites hard enough to make it a big deal

[severe grail]

Deino, but stegos never drink.

[elfin night]

wait till alberto comes out and you will see how badly some stegos will get bodied

[edgy crow]

I hope that it gets 1.5x damage on its head again when rex releases, its gonna need it

[dusky surge]

nah never gonna happen

that head is staying vulnerable i guarantee it

[elfin night]

deino isn't really a good bruiser and stego can dodge easily

[severe grail]

I meant from ambush

[elfin night]

why? it's such a small target and it would give value to ambushes as a rex

[edgy crow]

I love how stego and only stego takes 1000 damage to the head from a deino bite its such a unique and valuable mechanic that definitely won't screw over stego in the future

[elfin night]

can dodge it still because no mildly aware stego drinks in a way that isn't sideways

[edgy crow]

what about teno

or maia

literally any other playable with a small head

[elfin night]

thing is

teno doesn't 3 shot deinos with its tail

[severe grail]

teno and maia don't jhave spiky clubs on their tails.

[elfin night]

it is fine to have that small weakspot

[dusky surge]

stego has an exceptionally small head that's the point of it having that weakness tbh

[severe grail]

small weakspot that you have to be able to reach without getting smacked by the jank tail hitbox.

[dusky surge]

like stego's head is so small it's considered possibly the dumbest dinosaur because of how tiny the brain case is

[edgy crow]

still, 2x damage is really silly

if it HAS to take increased increased damage to the head, you'd want it to be 1.75x damage or something

[severe grail]

It's actually fine.

try hitting a stegos head reliably.

[dusky surge]

honestly buffing other components the stego but keeping the head at 2x is fine imho.

it provides a unique form of counterplay/hunting strat to it

[elfin night]

@terse parcel if you are suggesting that a stego should get screwed after 4-5 headshots as in making them as deadly as its power swing, that is so

problem rn really is that cera doesn't get that much benefit from hitting the hezd even though it deals like 600-700 with one well placed blow

wait till allo, alberto, acro, and the big apex trio come out and stegos will be forced to dodge hits more often

reminds me of that guy who once said a stego should die in 2-3 head bites from anything larger than a cera

including deino lmaoo

[crimson crater]

eh tiny hitbox and a stego who knows what its doing won’t leave it open to attacks

[vale brook]

yeah, the issue is not the 2x multiplier. the issue is cerato/carno/animals that would actually take advantage of that currently in game are not meant to be hunting stegosaurus

[elfin night]

Exactly

Imo stego and dibble are fine and perfectly balanced. It’s just that they don’t have equals in the carnivore roster as of now

[vale brook]

dilo? it has venom.

omni? it has pounce, no need to go for the head in most situations.

herrera? why would you hunt a FG stegosaurus as herrera

deino? i mean sure, but you can already 1 shot stegosaurus.

[dusky surge]

i remember back when pteranodon could hunt stegosaurus and some psychopath actually managed to upload it

[vale brook]

once rex/allo/alberto are in, the 2x damage will show its ugly head in terms of how much more those animals do with headbites

actual terrestrial macropredators pretty much

instead of the fat tub of lard that we call deino that people want to 1v1 stego on land and live

[edgy crow]

Reminder that Deino does 1000 damage with a headshot to stego

[vale brook]

not that i think stegos current 'immortal' status is awful (or even accurate). something will kill them at some point, leaving behind a huge body. maybe they'll get bored and start KOSing, leaving behind even more bodies. maybe it nests, bringing in less experienced stego players as hatchlings, providing more hunting chances for the carnivores in the area.

every player on a server has value, regardless if its 'unkillable' or not

[worthy steeple]

ahah lol

[vale brook]

which im fine with, personally. reward the deino for landing a head bite, sure.

now take that and remember that rex will likely have a stronger biteforce than deino, and you realize that 1k turns into 1.5k+ real quick

[elfin night]

Zenny fuming rn

[vale brook]

i wouldnt be completely shocked if rex has a 1k BF left click standard bite. enough to oneshot smaller things (like dilos, sub tenos/carnos, etc. stuff it shouldnt really be wasting the time it would take to use abilities on), but not enough to one shot carnos/ceratos without actually making use of your abilities

[crimson crater]

stego deals that amount on body shots

it works as a “glass cannon”

[edgy crow]

2000 damage on a headshot

[worthy steeple]

most likely, imo it should one shot those

[edgy crow]

1500?

[vale brook]

even a buff of 200 to one shot carno/cerato would make headshot damage on stego 2.4k, which is enough to 3 shot it with headshots.

granted, that could be fine high risk high reward

[worthy steeple]

too much imo, 1000 bite force is fine tho

[vale brook]

i just see rex bite as more of a defense "ew get away from me" instead of a "IM HUNTING YOU DOWN AND MURDERING YOU" thing

thats what the pin/throw/crush is for, ya know

[edgy crow]

Stego should be doing equivalent damage in that case

[vale brook]

it does on headshots iirc

or atleast very close to it

(with the power swing)

[edgy crow]

Still, power swing takes stam. Why would Rex's basic bite take stam?

[vale brook]

then again rex has like 33% more health so rip the stegosaura

[vale brook]

assuming you dont get baited, you only will be spending about 60% of your stam to take out the rex assuming you hit all headshots. with the no cooldown on the swing, it probably wont be as bad for stego as you think

if stego still had the 3 second cooldown for its powerswing it would actually be screwed though

[edgy crow]

I really hope Stego vs Rex is a fair match up

[vale brook]

its probably gonna be rex favored but i doubt it'll be "oh no. ive been seen. i am dead."

im imagining 60/40 in rex favor

assuming both are equally skilled with their respective playables

[dusky surge]

still sounds really bad given the speed discrepency

rex can choose the fight, avoid the fight and retreat. Stego can't

[vale brook]

yeah, im not thrilled about it either.

we know they'll be able to hold their own against rexes (granted, they'll have to actually be good at defending themselves) buuuuut some devs have also mentioned in the past that grouping up as stego is probably your best option in general.

like i said not thrilled about it but its better to be realistic with our expectations

[edgy crow]

At least Stego will be able to run from trike

[dusky surge]

ahahahaha i have news for you

someone datamined the stats

2km/hr difference. Trike's favour

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/guardians-of-the-galaxy-guardians-of-the-galaxy2-peter-quill-star-lord-star-lord-what-gif-24549462

[edgy crow]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

[dusky surge]

trike is faster. it also has an EXCELLENT swimspeed, apparently

[vale brook]

whats up with ceratopsids being so cracked at swimming in this game

is there precedent behind that in the paleo community and i just never knew

[dusky surge]

its funny i guess

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/luz-the-owl-house-ibormikroba-throw-up-gif-22121193

What are the Devs cooking here

Trike is probably going to be BIGGER than Rex AND it can run down a Stego???????

[dusky surge]

oh yea it is bigger than a rex, at least in leaked stats

[cosmic pelican]

Fg trike is 9.5T according to the game files lol

[dusky surge]

yup

[vale brook]

are you excited to have a faster tankier ceratopsid flipping stegosaurus again

[cosmic pelican]

Stego is cooked

[edgy crow]

I wanna puke, RIP Stego I guess 😭 🙏

[slim dragon]

Deserved

[dusky surge]

i'd honestly say that's too little for trike, personally, and i'd rather it stand significantly heavier than rex, but eh

i'd love a 10+ ton trike

[edgy crow]

I was going to go to sleep but I think these trike stats are going to give me nightmares

[dusky surge]

lol i genuinely think stego isn't accounted for in balance

hell, dondi confessed certain calibres of rifle will just instantly remove your stegosaurus from the game. buh bye

[edgy crow]

I am praying that these aren't real

Or that they'll be changed before release

[elfin night]

Steg has cc though, so even if Rex got 1000-1300 damage on a normal bite Stego would steal priority with its 1800 body shot power swing

2700 to the head

[dusky surge]

oh they're real, they're in the files, and given that trike is "disabled" and not incomplete, one can assume they're pretty indicative of the intended result

[dusky surge]

rex also has CC. Headswing + a crush attack to hold creatures in place

[edgy crow]

Like if trike has these stats I genuinely think it will be worse for the game than rex

[edgy crow]

Just completely nuking stegos viability

[slim dragon]

Hopefully, if devs care about balance, they'll notice something is terribly wrong once rex and trike release and they'll fix things

[vale brook]

i dont think we should totally worry until theyre in game. alot more goes into this stuff beyond pure stats

it is concerning though

[dusky surge]

but there's the thing, people will celebrate stego being worthless so uh

yea idk if it'll actually save it

[edgy crow]

Goodnight balancecord. I'm going to try to forget about what I learned here today.

[vale brook]

ive been saying this for a few months now but what happened to stego is actively happening to cerato right now i think

[elfin night]

Lol true. Totally forgot about headbutt, that thing is gonna be so nasty

[dusky surge]

y'know, true tho. cerato is getting some CRAZY off-the-rail nerf requests

[crimson crater]

i can feel the inevitable nerf to cerato coming

[vale brook]

stego was percived as OP by the community and recieved nerf after nerf until it was basically worthless (and still being called OP), got a slight buff, and now we're here. the community still hates stegosaurus despite it not being a problematic playable.

cerato was OP right after the dibble HT, got hit hard with the nerf pan, and is genuinely fine for the most part now. still, people complain about cerato and ask for even more nerfs.

[elfin night]

This is what happens when you let clueless 50 hour players have a say 😭

[dusky surge]

cera's still problematic but some of these nerf suggests are still wild

[vale brook]

its like people refuse to accept or internalize that these animals are given the tools they need to survive within their niche and nothing more, and instead go "hm pvp go brr"

[slim dragon]

Nerf cera's speed around bodies lol

[dusky surge]

bizarre-ass take

[vale brook]

i wish its charge bite was changed to be more defensive rather than offensive but its no where near as OP as it was before imo

well i wish they changed a teeny bit more than that but you get the point

[dusky surge]

ehh, it's still def notably above the rest of the roster, that's why you see it EVERYWHERE, I just think a lot of people want to blast it with a rusty shotgun

[vale brook]

ive been sitting on a charge bite idea for cerato for a minute now but i havent been able to put it into words yet

[vale brook]

i think part of that is just currently having no carnivore competiton right now beyond cocky carnos. alongside with most "i WANT BIG CARNIVORE!!" players playing cerato, you tend to get more than ya really need

[elfin night]

And with that you would solve so many problems. I have said this too many times, but the only reason cera is as prevalent right now is because it is the strongest carnivore in the game rn and large carnivores are always going to be played the most

And it so happens that cera is innately very easy to grow, and also did thrive with its smell and scavenging during the AI shortages even in officials

There’s more to balancing and the impact of playables than the dinosaur and its kit

[dusky surge]

ehhh, i think the competition argument is a lil flawed. the animal performs extremely well in most regards with little things that can do much about it

[vale brook]

i mean i can agree it preforms too well in areas, specifically hunting/offensive capabilities. the only thing keeping it from truly DOMINATING is its speed, which isnt great. and even then, its stamina doesnt ensure superior speed is enough

[elfin night]

Cera still gets slammed by competent pairs of dilos and carnos easily, but the problem is that there’s too many ceras and they’re all playing like pack hunters

Another argument as for why cannibalism in the same species won’t help much: unless you give them nothing else to eat like deino, people will just naturally team up with their own. Humans are wired that way

[vale brook]

im going to try and write down that cerato charge bite rework and probably throw in a few other things i think of. @crisp nova do you want me to ping you in #isle-discussion when i post it?

omg wrong person im going to be sick

[vale brook]

this was meant for you @elfin night 💀

[elfin night]

Lmaoooo

And yeah sure, just post it and I will read it whenever I can

Although there’s not much I have to say about it

As long as it is not used as a completely free primary attack while hunting other stuff, we’re good

Cera isn’t really that hard to balance. No isle playable is besides maybe omni and deino really

If anything there’s more need to buffs than nerfs: Pachy, ptera, maia, troodon, perhaps carno, hypsi, dryo and deino

Only things that need some nerf imo are dilo and cera

[iron tree]

@cosmic pelican may I ask why you downvoted?

I don't think it'd change the outcome of any matchup too much

[dusky surge]

66.6km/hr charge is wild

[cosmic pelican]

A sprinting carno is more agile than a charging one, so It'd be much harder to dodge for small game

[elfin night]

55kph carno tap charging people would be wild

[cosmic pelican]

It would also aid it in big game hunting, would make it easier to perform hit and run tactics

[elfin night]

I wouldn’t mind some small stam or speed buff but 55 feels a bit much for a natural carno

[cosmic pelican]

Your average maia player already gets demolished by 2 carnos, no need to make it even more 1 sided

[elfin night]

Mostly because of dilo and its groups

Wait, two carnos demolish a maia?

killed 3 carnos as maia

[cosmic pelican]

Your average maia player? Yeah

[elfin night]

Well yeah

Average isle players are kinda clueless tho

For some inexplicable reason

I thought indie games with a super specific niche would have a lot of oldies and sweats

But not really in this game at all

[cosmic pelican]

Probably because of the very steep learning curve

[elfin night]

I once saw a dibble losing a 1v1 against a cera and I went

[elfin night]

Xqc bringing new players to the game ong

[cosmic pelican]

Xqc bringing new players to the isle, Zenny taking isle players away to PoT

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[elfin night]

The WEAK isle players

Anyways, buff maia

Give it fracture

I loved Maias being able to break a giga’s leg in one headbutt before running away

[dusky surge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918359707108917268/1343561820048326697/caption.gif?ex=67bdb8f4&is=67bc6774&hm=9b928b908e03f78cb3c1ed91815e49719282a92b7529aaa0bdc2082ff4398c8d&

[elfin night]

I feel like testing something in a non serious manner

[cosmic pelican]

Im so glad I didnt watch it. I saw the title and the thumbnail and went "Nah, I got better things to spend my time on"

[elfin night]

Let the ❌ farm begin

[iron tree]

💀 I never suggested that

[dusky surge]

technically you did

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message i genuinely agree with that

[iron tree]

It used to be that fast too and nobody complained about its speed

[elfin night]

NOOOOO

[cosmic pelican]

It also didnt have spammable charge

[worthy steeple]

that video is so bad honestly.

[elfin night]

I need the ❌ bombing

I didn’t want to have a good take while baiting!!!

[iron tree]

I mean it kinda did

Anyway the speed nerf was literally unnecessary

[dusky surge]

i disagree simply because i want to see more on thermals before i decide that pteranodon needs to be even less fun to engage with

[worthy steeple]

nvm i fish reacted

[elfin night]

I want to bait the noobs into hating on me

[dusky surge]

once i can playtest thermals then i'll make a more informed take

[elfin night]

I agree

[dusky surge]

thermals LOOK really fun tho and add a lot of much-needed PvE elements to the animal

but still

[iron tree]

I love how everyone disagrees with you if they spot the words "carno" and "buff" "increase" in a suggestion

[eager saddle]

I just find it odd tbh. ''people asking for stam+regen buffs are just bad'' so we proceed to ask for nerfs because a few people know how to get proper air time? What?

Are we punishing those players for bothering to learn the mechanics and mastering them? That's odd.

[worthy steeple]

it took me 2 minutes to learn how ptera works, idk about you

[elfin night]

You should be born knowing how to use things, dummy

[worthy steeple]

not to mention they will add tutorials soon

[elfin night]

(Guides and basic knowledge on other playables since stamina is a core concept exist)

Also insane punishment to sit for a bit until you find out

https://tenor.com/view/git-gud-gg-knight-dancing-happy-dance-gif-17360274

[eager saddle]

oh so you learned everything about ptera in two minutes? Including tree landing, grabbing fish while flying, gliding up and down and knowing exactly how to gain height? You physically CANT do that in 2 minutes x)

[worthy steeple]

sorry, i lied… 5 minutes.

[eager saddle]

riiiiiiiiiiiight

[worthy steeple]

it’s not that difficult💀 idk how you can even struggle with that

everything expect tree landing tbh, at first i didn’t know how that works, the rest was easy

[eager saddle]

as your first dino too right? 🙂

[keen plover]

🤨 why would that matter. Play better?

[worthy steeple]

no, i think it was the second one, my first dino was omni and then i switched to ptera when i died

[keen plover]

Not like Carno needs the speed buff anyways.

[worthy steeple]

and they’re working on tutorials lmao, just wait for a bit, the game in is beta

[eager saddle]

5 years

[worthy steeple]

insane how people want it to work perfectly when it’s not even finished

[eager saddle]

tutorials should be priority number 1 -_-

[worthy steeple]

you got problem with that?

make your own game in 5 years

[eager saddle]

you really seem to like that sentence

[eager saddle]

got a bit agressive there, you ok?

[iron tree]

What if we don't nerf ptera

[worthy steeple]

i didn’t tho, i’m sitting here and giggling reading “5 years”

actually funny to see that argument once in a while from people

[eager saddle]

there have at least been SOME tutorials bro

[cosmic pelican]

Yo new series "Cheesy x Marj"

[iron tree]

Ptera is getting its rework very soon

[eager saddle]

but I guess saying that is not allowed

[worthy steeple]

no, they will not replace flows, flows makes sense most of the times

[eager saddle]

HAHA

aaaaaaah does he know

that's an insult at that point

[worthy steeple]

they’re working on that💀
what do you want?

[iron tree]

Plot twist....marjon IS flows

[worthy steeple]

IMAGINE

[eager saddle]

again, it's about time

[iron tree]

So they make sense

Anyway

[eager saddle]

insert clueless emote

[iron tree]

Buff Carno's speed

[worthy steeple]

@cosmic pelican will season 3 include this?

[eager saddle]

imma spoil it

[worthy steeple]

you’re the director

[cosmic pelican]

I can very much confirm Flows and Marj are 2 different people

[eager saddle]

I was about to say potato, you better not.

[worthy steeple]

WHY WOULD YOU SPOIL

[eager saddle]

oh flows and I get into big arguments all the time. But isle stuff we usually agree with.

[worthy steeple]

it’s for the show, you should’ve kept the mystery

[eager saddle]

still the best gif you made ngl

[iron tree]

I feel like eating a potato

[worthy steeple]

I feel like eating a potato

[cosmic pelican]

Sorry, but I like being alive🥺

[eager saddle]

🙂

[worthy steeple]

😭

[iron tree]

I feel like beating up the local raptor pack

Cause why not

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/taters-potatoes-potato-prepare-for-war-potato-fight-gif-15609235

[eager saddle]

well I can say potato has been playing raptor recently 😛

I could even say his skin

[iron tree]

Oh...really?

[cosmic pelican]

Marj...

[eager saddle]

🙂

[iron tree]

PACHYCEPHALOSAURUS....HEADBUTT

[worthy steeple]

potato raptor player exposed

[eager saddle]

nah, he plays all kinds

teno, carno, herra, raptor, stego

[cosmic pelican]

Istg you single handedly ruined my reputation😭

[eager saddle]

honestly, most respectable isle player imo

[worthy steeple]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[iron tree]

10 ribs shattered, major head fracture and both legs broken

[eager saddle]

oh-

[cosmic pelican]

Nvm🥔 ❤️

[eager saddle]

xD

[worthy steeple]

nah, it’s swagbear, well known fact

[iron tree]

I play almost every playable

[eager saddle]

except?

[iron tree]

Teno, stego hypsi, ptera and deino

[eager saddle]

Oh deino maybe?

[worthy steeple]

i play everything except playable that starts with “c” and ends with “eratosaurus”

[iron tree]

I don't enjoy teno too much

[worthy steeple]

jk, i play cera too👹

i don’t play deino or stego tho

[eager saddle]

I don't play dilo and cera.

[worthy steeple]

this is understandable

[iron tree]

I'm waiting for rex so I actually fear something on stego

[eager saddle]

I dont like the hallucinations

[cosmic pelican]

Cera player detected, opinion rejected

[worthy steeple]

same

[eager saddle]

feels too cheap

[worthy steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1339097089753481256/IMG_2627.gif

[dusky surge]

i play everything tbh

[iron tree]

And I'm waiting for the ptera rework and the hypsi climb

[eager saddle]

it was funny backreading the conversation about your name btw xD I got so confused ''wait but that's his name- ooooooooh''

[dusky surge]

HYPSI CLIMB YES GOD

[worthy steeple]

i play the isle

[iron tree]

And for rex to release so I can enjoy deino

[cosmic pelican]

I pity you

[dusky surge]

i commit 110%. Most people will be confused and disoriented by the new identity and that's the idea

[iron tree]

I play mostly dibble, pachy, Carno, maia and herrera

[worthy steeple]

😔

[iron tree]

I can't wait to get my hands on trike

[worthy steeple]

look at the balance feedback LMAO

[iron tree]

GALLI PLAYERS

[worthy steeple]

don’t upvote that you silly cats

[iron tree]

IT'S OUR TIME TO SHINE!!!

[worthy steeple]

i was laughing at “no”

[eager saddle]

x)

but yeah I don't think it should

[iron tree]

I downvoted "no"

[iron tree]

What happens when an ostrich kicks a lion

[worthy steeple]

look, we’re not so different

[eager saddle]

galli is faster. Stunning it would just result in a stunlock.

[inland brook]

omni needs way more love

[cosmic pelican]

Galli when pin

[iron tree]

No, screw omni

[worthy steeple]

omni needs to be erased

[eager saddle]

only for now.

[inland brook]

screw galli

[iron tree]

Remove it and replace it with achillobator

[eager saddle]

well omni needs to catch up first. And again, galli is faster

[worthy steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1232185340425404427/1342202393680412804/IMG_2755.gif

[iron tree]

I've sent 10 pachycephalosaurus to your location

[worthy steeple]

LMAO

[iron tree]

I hate omni defenders

[cosmic pelican]

What if I just spam ok marj gifs as an argument

[eager saddle]

I'll grab the meme

[iron tree]

1-2 pounces can kill a dilo

[worthy steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1342792785912139847/the-isle-triceratops-ezgif.com-reverse.gif

[cosmic pelican]

NO ANYRHING BUT THAT PLEASE HAVEG MERCY

[eager saddle]

:)

[eager saddle]

Omni has its issues. I don't think it should be buffed, but I don't mind it

[cosmic pelican]

Pounce counters need a rework✅

[iron tree]

Yes

[worthy steeple]

just make omni 375kg👹

[eager saddle]

it's not THAT bad is it xD

[inland brook]

when dilo is bugged

[eager saddle]

still no.

[worthy steeple]

sorry

275

[cosmic pelican]

Im gonna make an "Ok, cheesy" gif just cuz of this atp

[worthy steeple]

help.

[eager saddle]

I will repeat what I said. It's a small change that makes no sense and the justification sucks

[cosmic pelican]

I dont even know which one ur talking abt lmao

[eager saddle]

the one I made

[iron tree]

No?

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/clueless-gif-24395495

[worthy steeple]

okay. 2.4t omniraptor, slowed down and renamed to allosaurus

[iron tree]

Omni can spam its pounces

[eager saddle]

^

[iron tree]

Carnotaurus would beat the ever living omniraptor out of allosaurus fragilis

[eager saddle]

again, I think the things that omni currently beats are reasonable. Pachy should have a bit more of a chance vs it,but that's a pachy issue, not a omni issue

[inland brook]

dilo groups should always thrive if not buggy as its down sized as well as the omni !!?

[iron tree]

All pachy needs to win against a raptor pack is a rock

[eager saddle]

Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down???

almost every playable wins vs omni with a rock x)

as long as it doesnt get pinned

[iron tree]

I do

But it's still worth to mention it

I love bonking those goofballs off my rock

[minor axle]

I prefer using trees, but to each there own

[elfin night]

Let the ❌ rain

[topaz elm]

So you are saying people should use their environment to their advantage to fight instead of just dying out in an open field 🤯

Revolutionary concept that people somehow don’t agree with

[obtuse bison]

https://tenor.com/view/my-apologies-cheese-kitty-cat-sorry-my-bad-gif-1026852287997442026

[crimson crater]

who are you new hedgehog

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/my-apolocheese-apolocheese-accepted-cat-funny-apology-gif-10572966699290880170

[worthy steeple]

read the discord username👹

[crimson crater]

it was a reference

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-orange-cat-eating-food-looking-at-camera-shocked-gif-8115591024893342898

[elfin night]

@crisp cobalt realism never was or will be a good way to balance things out

game design and roles matter more than what is or isn't accurate

[topaz elm]

Yeah if things were realistic deino would one shot stego

[elfin night]

if things were realistic only 4 playables per faction would be viable

[dusky surge]

if things were realistic stego would one-shot deino

thered be a lot more one-shots in general lol

@inner remnant we're getting both hollywood roars and realistic rex noises

also how is this balance feedback LOL

[elfin night]

@neat hinge 250-275 damage aint really that brutal

especislly for a stam cost rear weapon

[neat hinge]

It is if you're an omni 😦

Most of the time though, tenos go super aggressive because they have a bleed.

same reason why dibble goes aggro

[slim dragon]

Tenos don't go super agressive because they have bleed, they go super agressive because they're good at combat

[neat hinge]

I just 3v1'd a group of tenos as an omni, they go aggro because they have an easy spammable move that inflicts bleed.

[slim dragon]

It's really not the bleed's fault

[neat hinge]

It is though.

[slim dragon]

What gives ?
I can guarantee you that without bleed tenos would be just as aggro

[neat hinge]

I can guarantee they'll just play dibble instead lol

[cosmic pelican]

Everything is gonna be aggro, thats just player behavior

[dusky surge]

so what? you just want less tenos lol

[slim dragon]

That' such a random thing to say

The only reason people play teno over dibble would be because teno's kick does bleed ?
What ???

[neat hinge]

Teno is quick to grow and easy to use; having a bleed makes them effective in combat for their size; that's why people use teno over dibble.

not to mention their run speed is insane

[dusky surge]

yea and how's that a bad thing

[neat hinge]

Without the bleed, people would just suck it up and go dibble so they can still kill easy.

[dusky surge]

it's a generalist herbivore with a knack for brawling

okay but like... what's your point

you want them to remove bleed but you admit that it'd just make teno less played?

[neat hinge]

The point is they're overly aggressive.

[cosmic pelican]

"Easy to use" 😭 🙏

[slim dragon]

I think you're confusing bleed with damage

[dusky surge]

don't you want species diversity?

tenonto being so accessible yet with a notably high skill cieling is why it has remained literally the face of herbivores through all of EVRIMA, even with more and more roster additions

[neat hinge]

Yes, that's why I don't want 40 million tenos.

[dusky surge]

despite being the first ever herbi in EVRIMA, it's literally the most perfect herbivore ever added and has yet to be beat

[dusky surge]

but there really aren't lol

[slim dragon]

40 million ceras as we currently have sure is better

[dusky surge]

honestly if i could find a herd of tenos i'd be happy but it's rare to find one

[neat hinge]

Tell that to all the tenos I just fought lmao

[dusky surge]

lucky lol

[neat hinge]

At least the ceras have a purpose for killing.

[slim dragon]

So do the tenos

[neat hinge]

Tenos go out of their way to kill things.

[dusky surge]

honestly cera and teno probably have the same level of justification for killng lmao

[slim dragon]

yes and ?

[dusky surge]

cera is supposed to be a less hunt-based animal built around defense and scavenging. by all means, it and teno are pretty kindred spirits in that regard

both are far too overly aggressive for what their niche would imply

[neat hinge]

Groups of Cera will go hunt down other dinos and eat them. Tenos just go out and attack everything they see for the fun of it.

[neat hinge]

They're herbivores.

[dusky surge]

so is a moose yet there's a reason people are encouraged to carry guns where moose are local

[slim dragon]

Ceras kill everything for fun, being able to eat them is just an added benefit
In fact, everything in this game primarily kills others for fun, especially now that any carnivore can sustain itself entirely off AI

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-the-isle-kaperoo-path-of-titans-gif-23526684

[slim dragon]

That's why they eliminate any potential threat

[dusky surge]

honestly yea ceras kill a LOT for fun lmao, because at this point they're near entirely uncontested

also AI is free lol

[neat hinge]

Moose only attack when they feel threatened, they don't go out and hunt down people and attack them.

[slim dragon]

The only thing I'd say doesn't kill others for fun is deinos, because I can't imagine killing anything as a deino being fun, also they need the food

[dusky surge]

^

deino kills when it can lol

[slim dragon]

"Feeling threatened" can be a very broad word

[dusky surge]

a predator existing in my general space can make me feel threatened

[neat hinge]

Yes, but do you go into their den and then go "oh I feel threatened now"?

[dusky surge]

if their den is where literally ALL of my food is, then yea i'd assume so

[neat hinge]

They don't even have food spawning, they'll go anywhere looking for a fight.

[dusky surge]

migration zones make me go places. if your home happens to be where my food is, yea, i'mma evict you

[neat hinge]

Most popular spot is south plains, and there's hardly enough food there for 1 herbivore most days

[slim dragon]

As a herbivore if I know there is a carnivore in the vicinity, I prefer making sure it's dead rather than taking chances
Or another herbivore who looks like they'd be ready to screw me over

[dusky surge]

even so, if it's my migration zone, i don't have much control over it, even if food is scarce

[neat hinge]

More often than not you'll find a patrol zone closer than migrations

[slim dragon]

And if there's a carnivore in the patrol zone the result stays the same

[minor axle]

All the carnivores have learned by now that going to pts aren’t worth the trek since there is no food there xd

[hasty coyote]

Even if tenos are over aggro, their best attacks are rear oriented, making them honestly pretty bad at going on the offensive. Especially since they are much slower than the things they can bully. They are literally one of the least problematic dinos if they are over aggro.

[worthy steeple]

exactly

[hasty coyote]

Like their most problematic matchup is cera, but even that is roughly 50/50 with both having ways to outplay or escape each other.

[minor axle]

I’m not disagreeing, but it is kinda funny watching a teno chase my dilo across half the map because it saw me from a mile away (the man has no chance of catching me)

[fast breach]

Throwback to when a Teno chased my dilo friend down, cornered him, and bodied him + he had very little stamina because every Teno at SP decided he needed to be chased in specific

[dusky surge]

LMAO

[worthy steeple]

LMAO

teno power

[dusky surge]

i'mma be honest stuff like that is what makes me love this game

you sometimes see a herd that fears you like the devil and gets super defensive when you get close

and sometimes they're just full of rage and want to see how many beatings to the head you can take till you stop moving

if every player acted the same, it wouldn't feel like an ecosystem, because animals have their own reasons for reacting to certain things irl

[fast breach]

Same, I had a herd of about 7 gallis and a Maia kill my sub Cera

Sucks to lose the growth, but I couldn’t stop laughing at how many gallis there were + it was my fault for walking into the open when I could’ve stayed hidden 😭

[minor axle]

All teno players do act the same smh

[crimson crater]

the bleed is fine, the only problem with teno is that its attacks are nearly cost free

[topaz elm]

Honestly I’m in favor of apexes being able to 2-3 shot each other

like Rex and trike could absolutely one shot each other

[dusky surge]

eugh

no that sounds super goddamn lame i'mma be honest

removing the enjoyability of the engagement or the sheer spectacle of a fight between giants for a wholly unsatisfying conclusion to literal hours of work

[worthy steeple]

not this again lmao, it’s not true, they cost stamina. why in a world tenos attacks should cost more?

if they give it’s pre nerf damage back? for sure. after the nerfed damage nerfing stam as well is just a crime

[crimson crater]

on the tail-slam sure but the damage on the kick barely got nerfed

[crimson crater]

because they’re a bit too stamina efficient, it should be increased so that it isn’t too punishing but you’ll have to be more cautious

seems pretty fair

[iron tree]

...yes

[worthy steeple]

i mean, if it’s “barely” then buffing it back shouldn’t be an issue.

i can see why you want the stam nerf, but look at the other playables, other than stego most of them can attack a lot of times dealing huge damage or bleed compared to their weight. it’s not like teno is the only stamina efficient animal. all of them stamina efficient id say.

and another reason why stam nerf is bad is because it’s unnecessary, good players don’t spam too much so stam nerf won’t really matter for them other than limiting the potential, and bad players spam attacks anyway, so it won’t really change anything, they will just ran out of stam faster, that will happen anyway lol.

and also the biggest issue is not even the teno, its the tactile endurance that makes it look like teno can fight forever, no it can’t, once it’s below 60% stam there’s no way back, you have to z walk to get the stam back which is kinda impossible during active fighting.

so just remove the tactile endurance from the game or nerf it to 10% or even 5%, i dont like herbivores having infinite stamina.

[elfin night]

Bruh

I made a bait suggestion and I still got mogged by the “teno plz nerf” post

[crimson crater]

same could be said vice versa, if it ain’t a big of a deal why change it?

and no the issue isn’t tactical endurance even before its release the community pretty much agreed on the fact that teno was slightly forgiving when it comes to stamina penalty, hell pachy takes more and it does just fine in that department.

teno can kick approximately 35 times not accounting for passive stamina regeneration, the amount of dmg it can do with that is 7, 000. just like you said, this change won’t really impact good players it will simply ensure that tenos can’t afford to make multiple errors without suffering any comeuppance

[worthy steeple]

i mean, it was your argument that it was “barely” for me it’s a lot, i want the damage back

[crimson crater]

why isn’t the damage enough now

250 is plenty

[iron tree]

Hell yeah! Let's nerf a fair and balanced playable

[crimson crater]

and i want 200 biteforce cerato back

[worthy steeple]

it’s not really about the errors, it’s about unnecessary high stam cost you want for the teno specifically.

look. cera doesn’t use ANY stam for the attacks. dibble doesn’t use any, all the carnivores are not using stam for biting, even tho they’re dealing damage. carno can spam charge million times, pachy can headbutt a lot of times, even tho it needs just 1-2 to make things its weight or bigger absolutely worthless.

there’s animals that a lot more stam efficient than the teno, tho the difference is the teno is probably the only animal in whole roster that cannot be offensive.

i can agree with slight stam nerf if it gets the damage back, but until then.. it’s just doesn’t make sense

[worthy steeple]

teno is actually very balanced, i’d say it’s the most balanced playable right now, it doesn’t need more nerfs.

i don’t mind it losing 25 damage on kick, but it needs its 50 tail slam damage back and it’s good

[crimson crater]

can u answer this

[worthy steeple]

is that a question?

[crimson crater]

hahaha no

i find it amusing that your contradicting yourself

[worthy steeple]

you’re sending some out of context messages, how do you expect me to answer?

[worthy steeple]

instead of actually responding to my message.

[crimson crater]

the context was that i was comparing some playables and u called me out for it, yet you do the same exact thing

[wind anvil]

I need to catch up on what's going on in here... Which discussion is this on? Which post in #balance-feedback ??

Or is this just a generic argument.

[worthy steeple]

i do it when its okay to compare, you’re talking about teno being too stam efficient? well there are animals that are way more stam efficient and that is not an issue

your problem is you’re obsessed with teno nerfs, even tho they’re unnecessary. its more about “look how much i can nerf your favorite playable” instead of actually thinking about game balance

[crimson crater]

but its different (i’m using your words here)

you’re a lost cause

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/demoman-heavy-scout-medic-tf2-gif-19939221

[wind anvil]

You two need to chill the heck out. What's the argument even about? Teno nerfs?

[crimson crater]

just a slight increase on stamina

[worthy steeple]

we’re chill tho, we’re doing this all the time

[wind anvil]

... Why? What reasons were provided for a need to buff??

[stark knoll]

All it does is clog this channel

You both know you get nowhere with each other

If you want to argue just do it in dms at this point

[crimson crater]

yea it is, a good teno who dosen’t spam recklessly won’t notice a difference, seems like you’re just against it for the sake of it.

cera and dibble work differently, dibble actually has a bad run time so it having attacks that would cost would be overkill, ceratos attack wouldn’t work well with it either as it would butcher its attack.

i just gave u an example of an animal having a higher stamina cost and it does just fine

[worthy steeple]

it’s not a buff, he wants higher stam cost for attacks and i think that’s unnecessary

[crimson crater]

unnecessary because its poor teno that nobody plays, you have yet to give me a valid reasoning

[worthy steeple]

work differently is not an argument. both are using attacks.

i’m not saying cera or dibble should use stam for attacking, im saying that they’re definitely more stamina efficient than the teno, they’re the ones that can actually fight forever, not the teno.

teno stam nerf is unnecessary, it’s not the only animal that can use its attacks many times.

[crimson crater]

“both are using attack” is an incredibly 1 dimensional perspective to look at things, the attacks work differently no?

[worthy steeple]

i literally gave you the reason, it’s not the only stam efficient animal and it’s not even THAT stam efficient, we got the ones that can spam attacks or fight for a lot longer.

not to mention that teno cannot be offensive, if you don’t want to fight it then just don’t

[crimson crater]

yea but why shouldn’t it be punished for missing though, never heard and seen a teno out of stamina

[stark knoll]

@crimson crater@worthy steeple Go to dms, please

[worthy steeple]

they do work differently, but they’re still doing the damage

[crimson crater]

no need, it’ll end

i’ve got better things to do

[stark knoll]

No, knowing you two, it won't

[worthy steeple]

well, see you all in the next episode of cheesy x flows

[crimson crater]

why won’t u take yes for an answer

it has ended its over

[tight snow]

Wow it was true

Also @stark knoll, this chat is about discusse what they were talking about, and everytime 2 ppls discuss, they spam, so i see no reason to make them stop, they,re doing fine

[wind anvil]

It's because it breaks down into arguments that flood the chat, and has no real debate going on. It's just "nuh-uh" or passive-aggressive insults.

[tight snow]

Oh then forget it, i had no pov

[crimson crater]

i’m a man of my word

[tight snow]

I saw, good job

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message I'm of the opinion it's fine. Doesn't need buffs or nerfs. Maybe just wait until thermals release to make a decision. A nerf when they come out might not be the worst idea

[worthy steeple]

i like how they were trolling, but i genuinely agreed with that ahah.

[wind anvil]

I'd be fine with a shorter flight duration, IF they maintained the stamina regen and where it could be done. They'd rest more often.

And it would help to fit with the goal to make them more terrestrial

[dire crane]

#balance-feedback message @steep gazelle "Accelerated Prey Drive" - Nobody uses that anyways, it's literally just for AI animals that get low health, doesn't actually even reduce the amount of hits required to take one down. I'd agree with removing it but not because it "breaks the balance", more so that it's just that useless to the point where removing it wouldn't make a difference.

Also if you want full balance by removing damage and speed improvements, you might as well suggest the reduction of how often it rains, or nerf Reabsorbtion, considering it practically ruins the balance about the existance of Deinosuchus.

[steep gazelle]

Of course, there is no problem in reducing the reabsorption %, but the focus there was on these other mutations that completely break the balance, such as a cerato running more than pachy or teno and causing more than 450 damage in the charged bite

[dire crane]

Yk actually what would be a cool change to Reabsorbtion?

Like instead of increasing the water constantly in rain, it just pauses it, that'd be quite interesting

[steep gazelle]

reduce the amount of water that is absorbed, the standard is 1%, reduce it to 0.50%, but this would also affect the deinos that migrate to another lake

[elfin night]

bro

my suggestion still isn't the one with the most downvotes

teno nerf L was way too much

[steep gazelle]

or put a limit on the % of thirst that reabsorption can absorb

[steep gazelle]

why teno need nerf?

[elfin night]

I dont think it needs, teno is perfectly balanced

but some guy made a take so bad it mogged mine

said that teno shouldnt get bleed in the kick

[worthy steeple]

i remember how flows once suggested the same lol

teno is known as good bleeder, removing it is just insane 💀

[steep gazelle]

It's not enough to remove the bleeding from the galli, this guy still want to remove it from the teno?

[worthy steeple]

it’s the same as removing fractures from pachys kit

[elfin night]

teno needs some deterrent

[crimson crater]

don’t spread lies about me

[elfin night]

next is stego

[worthy steeple]

you did tho, i can even find the messages if i search

[crimson crater]

do

i have a hard time recalling that

[warm cloak]

I’ll take it for perma stunlock potential

[steep gazelle]

Tenonto, just like Cera is a dino that you can easily escape because he's not that fast, but if you want to fight him there will be consequences

[dire crane]

what do u think @worthy steeple #balance-feedback message

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

[crystal wharf]

deino mains deserve nothing but a boot to the throat

[worthy steeple]

@crimson crater

[crystal wharf]

buff reabsorption actually

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

[minor axle]

So true, actually remove water from the game

[elfin night]

honestly, being a gateway deino main should qualify as a mental illness symptom

Actual suffering or you are a mixpacker/clan member with the changed username and all

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback-discussion message the context

[elfin night]

deino is easily the worst thing in the entire game and it's not even close

[worthy steeple]

you literally asked to remove it in this message

cheesy: "alright, here’s the things i didn’t like: teno applying bleed with its kicks is dumb? what?"

flows replying to that: "tbf kicks are more blunt force dmg, bleed dosent make much sense"

[crimson crater]

are u dyslexic, i said that i wouldn’t mind it being toned down a little not completely removed

[worthy steeple]

"bleed dosent make much sense"

[crystal wharf]

being a deino main, then being mad that the map doesnt cater exactly to making your ambushes easy, should be classified as a mental illness
generally gateways water is pretty interesting so i understand wanting to explore it :3

[dire crane]

yo let's chill out

[worthy steeple]

i think you should read your own messages

[crimson crater]

so? that dosent mean i wanted it to be removed

[worthy steeple]

lmao

[minor axle]

I mean the map is legitimately mostly bad for Deinos, but that’s good

Beipi is just the far superior water exploration choice

[crimson crater]

i think you should understand a few things, dilo and herrera makes no sense yet i have nothing against them.

i explicitly stated that i wouldn’t mind it to be toned down slightly but you’re making it seem like i want it to be completely removed

getting real tired of u

[minor axle]

Ofc Dinos don’t make cents, they are unemployed

[edgy crow]

[crystal wharf]

honestly yeah, the map shouldnt be designed around the fat tub of lard that is deino, and its not like deinos are really struggling to find player food in the current hotspots, whether they kill it or not

[eager saddle]

@cosmic pelican a new episode!

[eager saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-meme-aardman-the-pirates-pirate-gif-26563702

For the last part.

Not the design of the map thing

(That’s correct)

[steep gazelle]

spiro lakes is better

[crystal wharf]

spiro didnt have any lakes

[eager saddle]

Which lakes?

[crystal wharf]

spiro had 1 giant deino hive of a river system

and a swamp

[eager saddle]

Tbf it wasn’t great for deino either

[steep gazelle]

i joke, I didn't play on Spiro so I didn't know

[crystal wharf]

the thing is, spiros water ways were molded around being easy and convenient for deino to use, and its primary hot spots were all in very deino friendly regions

[elfin night]

the map is just terrible for deino as it is

Also they have east plains as a spawn which is hilarious

[minor axle]

It was pretty decent at keeping you fed (admittedly usually off whichever deino lost a game of chicken against a stego)

[crystal wharf]

ive heard crazier things from people who were being dead serious, you never know

[eager saddle]

^

[steep gazelle]

I think the only thing to be done is rivers that connect the lakes

[minor axle]

I remember being part of deino herds when it first dropped. Not really a pack (not working together), just waiting for anyone to dare crossing the river, or for one of your own to die

(Long before beipi my beloved was added Iirc)

[crystal wharf]

yeah, the map isnt good for deino, but like, it shouldnt be molded for deino like spiro was
deino should be adjusted for gateway instead
and yeah that eastern lake spawn is currently actual torture

[eager saddle]

I tried migrating from that before I was fg

Big mistake

[edgy crow]

we should go back to fight pvp spiro combat pvp fight map

[eager saddle]

Wait what

[crystal wharf]

honestly, they dont even need that
just some small increases to deinos water capacity is all it would need to get to any of the lakes easily
deino shouldnt be having risk free highways between every major and minor water source

[steep gazelle]

in my opinion, east plains should go back to what it was before, and remove deino's spawn from there

[steep gazelle]

The population that remained in the eastern plains was already low, but after updating the map, there is no one there anymore

[crystal wharf]

naaaaah, east plains was so boring before

i think it being a jungle is a neat little change for the region

[elfin night]

I agree that it is much better than spiro, but honestly deino is SOOOOOO unfathomably bad with its current balancing and how disconnected many good waterways are, and the hotspots except for water access (where you are forced to be very much a cannibal to survive and be fully aquatic) are all just the same as spiro river with narrow hallways or tiny spots where you can only survive if other crocs actively protect you

Deino just sucks. Terrible "early" game where crocs twice your size or more can walk you down in land as soon as they spot you, the places with fish having so many safe drinking spots so you are forced to be a cannibal and then what I said above about it being the signature clan playable

[crystal wharf]

it just needs some extra love like the northern deltas got

[elfin night]

it is pure, unadulterated ass

[minor axle]

I wish there were some more streams to the sea at least, to make the water logical for not being salty (rn we only have one salt lake).

Even if they are tiny streams that adults can’t swim in, just enough to be hydrated yet exposed in

Not really for the Deinos sake but just to make sense map wise

[elfin night]

yeah, deino rework or buff is way better than to have spiro again

It was so annoying and actually terrible in spiro or going to any hotspot or delta how you're forced to go through narrow hallways with nowhere to hide and you could turn a corner and a pair of cannibals can immediately spot you. I am not even joking when I say legacy austroraptor is OBJECTIVELY more fun and viable than deino rn

even velo

deino is probably on par with current legacy ava or oro

but with 6-9 hours of growth

[crystal wharf]

yeah

whats really not helping its case is that so many people still play deino

and at this point it probably is people that actually enjoy deino for deino, rather than people wanting to play the biggest carnivore, cuz all of those are playing cera

[elfin night]

yeah absolutely. They just play and die early or they survive thanks to babysitting and clans protecting you

[minor axle]

Yeah, and people who just want fun water can play beipi now.

[elfin night]

enjoying deino for deino right now is so

[edgy crow]

Deino rework is gonna be so good

[elfin night]

beipi is unironically more fun and (pound for pound) effective as a water ambusher

[crystal wharf]

at least in areas like delta theres like, grass n stuff, and smaller rivulets for young deinos to have some small chance of escape in

but yeah

not great

[elfin night]

water access and highlands lake are the only places where you can reliably hide

and food is in water access consistently

everything else is like forcing someone to go through a long narrow hallway and expect them to be stealthy

with barely any objects around if any at all

[crystal wharf]

yeah

theres always a lot more that can be done to make the river systems better for small things to survive in, without forcing them to leave
and then also giving baby deinos enough land speed to actually get away from larger deinos so they cant just be walked to death

[eager saddle]

Well okay then

[elfin night]

you literally have no way of escaping a bigger croc if it sees you there, and you are not the big croc until 80% or so. I have lost the two deinos I tried growing at 40% and 50% because I got literally WALKED DOWN in land by crocs 6 tons heavier than me

And the first one was in UPDATE 3

Like oh my god why didn't they address that?

You can do all you want, that even if you run and keep your stam and trot with a 100 meter advantage, the croc with 4 times your health will still catch up to you inevitably

it is so frustrating and cheap

[elfin night]

and not just baby deinos

also subadults and such especially when you get like half of your full weight in the last 20-30%

[elfin night]

I actually cannot comprehend why would someone like to go through all of that for 6 to 8 hours if you play decently and fish spawn during the first half

how can you even enjoy it unless you are teaming up?

[eager saddle]

I like the ambushing :3

[edgy crow]

Literally just play herrera

[eager saddle]

Meh….

[elfin night]

good luck getting any ambush on anything but other crocs

[edgy crow]

Herrera is

[eager saddle]

I’ve been successfull in a few places

[elfin night]

herra is superior in everything even though the juvenile is so useless and pathetic

[eager saddle]

Tho everything you said is true

[elfin night]

1 ambush per hour

[edgy crow]

Herrera needs it's juvie speed buffed and adult land speed nerfed, and it will be perfectly balanced

[eager saddle]

I mean, that’s how it goes once they know there is a croc, they gone

[elfin night]

yup

and there's nothing the croc can do about it

riveting gameplay

[eager saddle]

Same for herra in that regard tho, but herra can migrate better

[elfin night]

agreed. Doesn't really need 45 as an adult and then juvi needs some viable prey besides fish

[edgy crow]

43km/h adult, and make it spawn at 20km/h instead of that god awful 15km/h

[eager saddle]

I wish schooling fish were at least dots for juvi deinos. If you don’t know about rotting them, there is 0 diet for you before you can kill elites

And rotting them just makes you a massive target for bigger crocs

[elfin night]

herra has barely any restrictions. You can stalk people in land and wait until they stop to set up the ambush instead of camping one tree the whole day

Deino on the other hand better have the kidneys and also willingness to move for an hour if it wants to reach for example south river from the swamp

and then you get cannied by the two local deinos

[eager saddle]

See, it was fine until patrol became a thing…

I would get a lot of tenos in delta cuse migration

[elfin night]

please, save deinosuchus, devs. It is the worst and most actively unfun playable in the game by a mile

[eager saddle]

Now, I don’t see any

[eager saddle]

But it’s broken surely that means it’s fun

[elfin night]

everyone's gonna play bary like deino (I will)

and it will likely be more fun and effective if bary gets good oxygen

[minor axle]

I’m going to stalk west rail access with Bary (I migrated around the edge of the island just as a beipi, killed a Herra)

[eager saddle]

Seriously tho, I can’t explain it how excited I get when I can stalk a teno pack

[elfin night]

I don't think bary will even need to use the sea

[eager saddle]

Aaaaaaand then I die cuse I looked above water and missed the 2 fg deinos coming after me

[elfin night]

it's bary, can prolly just go from water access to the highlands and then west rail

[minor axle]

I mostly meant how often I just wait around that pond (usually as dilo, but even beipi).

[elfin night]

same, always as beipi

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message

[minor axle]

West rail access has plenty of fish, so will probably be very good for bary. Just make sure to chase the pteras off.

[dusky surge]

once upon a time i might've agreed but uh

yea personally i dont feel that way anymore. Deinosuchus provides an especially unique playstyle and counterplay and adds a dynamic approach to the game. Plus it's a super uniquely designed "apex" with basically zero ability to fight its own size or do anything close to effective hunting on land, but being a unique threat in or near water

I think if there were more aquatics, deino's gameplay would be a lot more dynamic than it is, but that's more of a roster thing imho

[topaz elm]

with dismemberment deinosuchus will be a whole different monster

if he cant drag all of you away, he might just take a leg instead

[dusky surge]

very much doubt that's gonna be something deino will be able to do lol

[viscid mica]

@terse parcel FUN FACT TIME

Most stego have jugular platting similar to the design of chainmail making their thick skulls and very thick neckbones painfully hard to attack for most of the carnis that would hunt them (mainly allos) thus they wouldn’t be able to damage stegosaurus head and neck sufficiently which caused for carni to wonder too close to the sun aka their tail.

All in all meaning that not a lot of stuff could do damage to a stego head and stego in game is balanced towards the larger stuff hunting it thus why it can handle taking hits from the smaller mid tiers like cera or carno that is all we have rn even allo will struggle against it as stego are straight hands

I must ask @elfin night when was the last time you played PT?

[warm flax]

If more semi-aquatic and apex carnivore playables are added to the game, there will likely be less cannibalism among Deinos, as players will have more viable options to choose from and less need to target their own kind for survival

and ppl wanted to big apex will switch to something like spino or rex and kill each other even it is not in their diet

[viscid mica]

Oh ya that’s a Garantee especially sense all the semi aquatics have a solid fan base

[warm flax]

I would love to see deinocheirus can act like a stego + maia niche in the river system
and spino are the one to challenge it , while deino picking off their young ones and retreat to the deep water when a adult showed up

[viscid mica]

(Gets caught lacking in a river with low stam)

[warm flax]

would like to see sunbathe being add into deino's game play
really like thier rest animation ,maybe if you rest in certain location it can provide buff (like temporary move speed increase or stam regen...etc)

and it let smaller deino and other player sees you from a far knowing there is atleast one big gator in thiat area

[minor axle]

personally I am pro aquatics mauling deinos that grab them, to show how the other aquatics are more more comfortable even when pulled under

[dusky surge]

eugh

idk but that just sounds lame to me

[warm flax]

im fine with that as long as dieno got the best swimming ability

[minor axle]

it should have the best for its size at least (able to outswim spinos etc).

very much a pick and choose when you want to eat someone playable

[dusky surge]

outswimming spino should be the bare minimum

deino should be outswimming basically everything besides like, a speed-boosted beipi

[warm flax]

yeah... really wish they can increase their hunger bar so fg deino don't have to roaming across the map and make evey engagement into a fight
I don't mind they nerf thier combat ability

[minor axle]

beipi is too nimble to effectively catch regardless of technical speed (and really is just a fast way to waste your time and tell everyone around to watch out)

[dusky surge]

everything should be more nimble than deino besides maybe a spino, but deino should still outswim them all

i'll be bold and state i think austro should be slower than deino in water, but far more agile

[warm flax]

how much weight is a fg austro?

[dusky surge]

unsure, somewhere between beipi and omni i'd assume

[minor axle]

my optimal idea of a deino is a patience predator that has that kind of diet in order to wait for the optimal attack (if it wants). It can leave, ambush (it is a fairly stealthy creature for its size, though adittedly water vision is just jank), etc.

[minor axle]

as a beipi player I certainly wouldnt mind them being slower smh

[dusky surge]

also on the topic of spino, it might not even be a proficient swimmer lmao. It seems to be depicted as a bottom-walker with basically no bouyancy

[warm flax]

and their sails give their locations away making it harder to ambush other playables

[dusky surge]

i mean that and they're just disgustingly massive

like side by side they tower over rex it's absurd

[minor axle]

hippo

[warm flax]

we need bigger fish ai for spino and deino

[minor axle]

capable of grabbing two beipis from 30 feet away, double the fun

[dusky surge]

ehhhh

idk about that tbh

[warm flax]

well I guess lets wait and see how they are going to handle rex first

[dusky surge]

im worried rex might be carried by AI too

[viscid mica]

The only things that should be faster than deino in water are beipi and maybe Austro by a tiny margin (if deino uses m2 it’ll gain on them)

[dusky surge]

god i hope austro isnt tbh

[viscid mica]

Prolly won’t be but had to say it sense it’s tiny it might be a bit speedy

[edgy crow]

Austro being slower than Deino when the humble go on land or dodge:

[iron tree]

Just get an austro buddy

[iron tree]

Deino should be the fastest thing

(Excluding beipi's dolphin jump)

[viscid mica]

Mostly saying cuz of how small they are

[viscid mica]

Power of being a tiny tier

[iron tree]

Austro can literally sense them

[viscid mica]

!?

[iron tree]

Concept art

[viscid mica]

Show me

[warm flax]

well....every playable can see deino if its close to surface

[iron tree]

It will probably have some unique ability

And I'm all for it

[viscid mica]

That’s not sensing that’s seeing into water lol

[iron tree]

No

[warm flax]

I think it swill be the dive like herrera do but grant a move speed bonus

[iron tree]

It'll be semi-aquatic

[warm flax]

they nerf deino sense ability to the ground , I doubt austro will have similar thing

[iron tree]

We dunno until it's eventually in the game

[slim dragon]

Imagine having the fastest thing in its environment also be the strongest by a huge margin
Way to replace the concept of "semiaquatic" with "deino and deino food"

[viscid mica]

I mean it won’t be the moment spino drops

Plus Sucho will be rather strong and large and bary will be more than quick enough to escape if they pay attention

[slim dragon]

The spino/deino relation abides by the rule of "if you can't fight it, run from it" every other intersction between any semiaquatic and deino wouldn't if it's the fastest

[dusky surge]

i think that's a bit of a stretch because unlike those others deino is a lot more "aquatic" than "semi"

Like, the thing effectively is the closest we have to a full aquatic, other creatures can (and will) easily escape to land when encountering one

[slim dragon]

Sucho will be at best a bit over half deino's weight, and I don't think it'll have more than twice the dps
So deino food

[dusky surge]

a deino will NEVER keep pace with a bary or austro on land. Hell, even a beipi on land easily flees it

[slim dragon]

Ok but what need is there for deino to be the fastest ?
I thought its niche was supposed to wait and ambush things on land ?

[viscid mica]

They’ll be able to wipe deino for roughly 80% of its life time and escape grabbing for another 15% I think Sucho will be fine

[dusky surge]

and when it water, it can act more like a short-burst ambush/chase predator

it's still gonna need to ambush due to godawful stamina

[viscid mica]

Plus deino is the only TRUELY aquatic heavy of the semi aquatics everything else can survive on land without much hassle

[dusky surge]

and the ability to just... leave the water

plus deino has godawful agility, which would be an advantage most aquatics can hold over it

[edgy crow]

Land + outmanoeuvring

[viscid mica]

If Sucho is standing on land it escapes deino

[slim dragon]

It can be that without invalidating everything else's water existence
Also it makes no sense physics-wise

[elfin night]

Tbf deino is the fastest or at the very least kind of tied with beipi and nothing is really gonna be faster than a beipi in the water from the planned roster

[edgy crow]

Except it does. Most semi aquatics are theropods. This is a ALLIGATOR.

[slim dragon]

You sau that as if deino had something like a slow turnrate

[edgy crow]

Why shouldn't the alligator be the fastest swimmer, physically?

[dusky surge]

austro or bary being faster than beipi would annoy me heavily

[edgy crow]

Yea, it'd be so stupid

[slim dragon]

Theropods which are adapted for living in water
VS an alligator that weighs 16x as much as the heaviest alligators today

[edgy crow]

the alligator is simply more adapted for living in water

[slim dragon]

Because it's 8 tons

[dusky surge]

okay so would you want bary to be faster than beipi? because that's kinda the only way to make it that deino stays slower than the majority of the aquatic roster

[viscid mica]

Its a giant gator bro is build to be in water 90% of its life

[edgy crow]

Carno is 1.3 tonnes, Omni is 450kg. Guess which one is faster.

[viscid mica]

The rest aren’t bruh

[slim dragon]

No ? The way is to make deino slower lol

Or beipi faster

[edgy crow]

The way is to make the other semi aquatics more agile

using only shift + w to escape from the big predator is dumb

[slim dragon]

You fail to see how extreme moving 8 tons through water is

[dusky surge]

why tho? genuinely don't understand WHY deino needs to be slower

[slim dragon]

Deino doesn't strike me as something that can be outmanoeuvered in water
Especially since it can use its lunge to turn 90° on a dime

[dusky surge]

deino is THE aquatic. like you don't get more aquatic than deino

[viscid mica]

You fail to see how streamlined vs not streamlined works this is basic physics

[slim dragon]

Because I don't want semiaquatics to be relegated to land

[viscid mica]

The deino passes all qualification to be fast af if it wants to be

[edgy crow]

austro being faster and more agile than deino in the water and having the advantage of escaping to land would be beyond stupid LMAO

[slim dragon]

Crcodylomorphs aren't even that adapted for moving fast in water, compared to other aquatic creatures
Beipi, with its smooth feathering and penguin-like profile when it swims, fully it

[viscid mica]

In certain it’ll be pretty dam fast

[dusky surge]

they aren't. I played beipi and as long as I kept my wits about me, I could survive a deino attack, but if they actually got an ambush, I got screwed. Kinda how it should be

IDK I like deino being this kind of looming threat for the majority of the aquatic biome

[viscid mica]

They’re better than EVERYTHING ELSE ON THE AQUATIC ROASTER RN except of course BEIPI which is faster

[slim dragon]

And you could survive a deino attack... By going on land ?

[edgy crow]

also like

deino needs to escape stuff

imagine a young deino against this hypothetical fast austro

wouldn't be able to run, wouldn't be able to dodge, wouldn't be able to go on land

it'd just die

[viscid mica]

Yea!?

[slim dragon]

That's the thing
Beipi isn't faster than deino

[viscid mica]

It is bruh

Trying jumping in and out of the water

[warm flax]

nah, they wont lose much progress as a baby deino

[dusky surge]

i mean yea that's how i did it, but i also just used my agility to break the kneecaps of the deino, exhaust it, and get away

[slim dragon]

Actually I don't really mind austro being slower than deino
It's beipi which bothers me

[edgy crow]

why tho

[warm flax]

the only buff baby deino need is to be faster than big deino on land

[viscid mica]

So deino on deino game play rn

[viscid mica]

Beipi is faster you just do the hops man

[slim dragon]

Because beipi is clearly meant to be vulnerable and disadvantaged on land
If it has no choice but to go on land to escape a predator that should be, by all means, its least direct threat, then it's succesfully failing at its niche

[slim dragon]

Was it buffed ? Last time I did that I was still slower than the deino chasing me

[warm flax]

the only thing I want the dev to add is fix the weird fish spawn, you can have 5-10 boar/ deer spawn at the river bank and noting in water

[viscid mica]

Na you should be def faster if your constantly hoping unless you let bro get close enough to spam m2s

[warm flax]

sometime I have to surrivie on boars got weirdly stuck in the middle of the river

[slim dragon]

If beipi is faster when breaching, then it's acceptable, but it really didn't feel like that last time I played it
And I still see no reason why deino has to be as fast and agile as it currently is

[keen plover]

Wait what's wrong with beipi running onto land vs deino?

[viscid mica]

Yes BEIPI is

And 2 it’s as agile as it is so the other semi aquatics can be quick but still give deino which is hard water locked compared to them a chance

[edgy crow]

nothing

[slim dragon]

It's a semiaquatic designed to be very vulnerable on land who's forbidden to go into water

[dusky surge]

you dont even need to do it is my thing tho

like as someone who plays a decent amount of beipi because i find its movement fun, you can genuinely just break the deino's kneecaps and exhaust it

beipi's agility is disgusting in the water

[slim dragon]

What do you mean by breaking the deino's kneecaps ?

[dusky surge]

you can basically entirely change your x, y and z axis before the deino even comprehends what you're doing

deino literally can't turn nor ascend/descend fast enough to keep up with beipi's movement

[warm flax]

give the baby deino some gental belly rub with beipi's claw

[dusky surge]

simply swimming in unpredictable ways will make it near impossible for a deino to catch you

[edgy crow]

which is why I think a good beipi will make mincemeat out of any austro that dares hunt it

[dusky surge]

honestly i tend to bait deinos as beipi for the thrill of the chase because it's genuinely one of the most fun, thrilling chases you can ever be a part of as anything

[dusky surge]

just wait for aquapin then beipi will be sorry

[warm flax]

one way for small deino to counter beipi is sink to the floor and wait for it to come

[viscid mica]

Beipi is the omni of water

[dusky surge]

which is basically just letting the beipi leave

[slim dragon]

Then I might need to try it again

[edgy crow]

like if austro doesn't get a pin

it's just doomed if it tries to fight it in water

[dusky surge]

so either way beipi is vibing

[warm flax]

well.... most juvi deino will perfer to eat fish tbh

[viscid mica]

I don’t think they’d give Austro a pin that’d be kinda weird

[dusky surge]

i wouldn't be surprised if it got one

[warm flax]

as a deino which is over a ton , as long as the beipi doesn't give away my location
I'm pretty much fine with them

[edgy crow]

the potential of austro vs beipi is too fun, giving it a pin would ruin everything

[viscid mica]

Still think it’d be weird as hell and just bring into question omni whole existence