balance-feedback-discussion

[pure tiger]

I think a good way to encourage normal packing behavior would probably be both more mutations and non mutation buffs for the species to want to only work together.

But idk anything thought feels tentative at best

[terse parcel]

About Pteranodon stamina - some people propose for it to have significantly more stamina, others that it shouldn't.
I don't know what is more balanced, and if Pteranodon needs any balancing right now, but when it comes to real life Pteranodon was one of the best flyers among Pterosaurs. Significantly better then many other Pterozaurs e.g. Quetzalcoatl which relied more on walking and had better ground locomotion.
Pteranodon, with long and narrow wings and high aspect ratio, perfect for long distance flying and soaring at cost of smaller maneuverability. Hollow bones and reduced weight significantly. Well-developed pectoral muscles, but not built for prolonged flapping flight, designed primarily for dynamic soaring, using rising air currents (thermals) to stay aloft for long periods, especially over the ocean.
So it would suggest it should be tired by doing active flying phases, but efortless at calm cruising and maintaining altitude, even resting slowly when soaring without move.
My two cents if someone is interested.
cheers

[stark knoll]

That's basically how it already works

Get up high, let go of the keyboard, and flight costs nothing

[pure tiger]

Honestly hadn’t thought about that. I did forget that the quetzal is expected to come out at some point and didn’t consider the balance and other flying aspects. Doesn’t help I’m doing this at work to 🤣🤣

[pure tiger]

Thermal and small rest while gliding/cruising/nonactive flying would be neat to see

[stark knoll]

Thermals are planned

They may be in the upcoming hordetest

[pure tiger]

Oh neat. I’m new enough though so uh… what’s a hordetest?

[stark knoll]

It's a public test of upcoming content before it's pushed to evrima proper!

[pure tiger]

Ah tracking. Sounds dope!

[elfin night]

this is a very big problem imo

if they for example chose to make it illegal, staff would get so many reports of people getting third partied and stuff and call it mixpacking

💀 like in that Pandora server

kids start complaining and crying about "mixpacking" when you join in a fight and kill the weakest one or go for the victor after one dies

[pure tiger]

I think no matter what is done you would still end up with hundreds of crying reports and regardless of nerf or buff or penalty whatever is picked will always be abused by some sadly.

[worthy steeple]

i changed my opinion on ptera stam situation, i like how it is right now

[elfin night]

it's just something that needs a bit of skill

[iron tree]

But do you know what doesn't need any skill

[pure tiger]

Yah after some earlier back and forth my stance changed as well

[iron tree]

Ceratosaurus

[elfin night]

omni

[iron tree]

That too

[elfin night]

also cera rn

[worthy steeple]

i spent almost 30 minutes flying around pack of ceras biting them and 1 calling, this should not be possible

[iron tree]

Pachy vs omni is too close

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-jesse-pinkman-metaphor-refantazio-gif-8287450970228896142

herbi gang

[worthy steeple]

if that problem gets fixed i’ll be okay with stamina buff, but until then i don’t want more stamina for ptera

[iron tree]

I can handle 4 ceras on dibble when I play smart but they do so much damage

Why can cera spam a 345 damage attack

[elfin night]

and you can also travel across the whole island in one go at like 70kph more or less if you don't press shift.

Ptera top speed which can be achieved sprinting in the air or going down is like 110 kph

that, on top of being able to ignore all terrain, allows you go anywhere you want

[worthy steeple]

i did that too, from swamps to the north east plains, with 40% stam left

[elfin night]

see?

it is insane

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[elfin night]

slow their movement during charged bite

[iron tree]

And give it its slide back

[elfin night]

slide/turning charged bite would be a very good addition imo

[stark knoll]

Once you Know™️ how to play ptera seeing stam complaints just gets funnier and funnier

[elfin night]

as in, if you look back and charge bite, it turns around and does it

[iron tree]

Fr

[pure tiger]

@elfin night ngl I do appreciate that your one of few people that will go “get good here is the how and a explanation” that’s why my stance changed at this point

[iron tree]

Just glide

[elfin night]

you're welcome bud

I have a little experience with that both here in the isle and with the souls community

[iron tree]

I don't wanna hate cerato. But I'm slowly starting to hate it

[elfin night]

I always try to explain things properly to determine if they are an issue or not, and also because saying "git gud" plainly isn't helpful at all

[iron tree]

Makes me wanna go stego and ambush some ceras during a storm

[pure tiger]

I do the same in the battletech/mechwarrior community. Cause holy hell that’s a lot going on

[worthy steeple]

yes

[elfin night]

I like cerato. I love the model, the sound design, animations and concept, and I genuinely believe it is not that overpowered

In my humble opinion and after thinking about it, I believe it only needs to be adjusted to not have extremely good synergies with mutations such as gastro and then making charged bite a less offensive weapon. Cera is just in a weird spot right now because, with carnotaurus no longer posing much of a threat, it has become the ideal land apex which is a bad combination for a scavenger who has it that easy growing

and most of the animosity towards cera and part of its problems stem from the fact that there's too many of them

[iron tree]

Cera is overtuned right now

It just needs to get some tweaks to be an actual defensive scavenger

[elfin night]

at least that's what I think: a perfect combination of carno becoming the small game hunter, cera coming into the game right now and it coincidentally being extremely easy to grow (especially during AI shortage that causes mass famine to stuff like carno)

Add the charged bite and gastro on top of that and you get a very oppressive force of nature

[iron tree]

Cera is the META carnivore rn

I hope it'll get some tweaks. Allo will most likely be the new meta carnivore which will cause cera to be enjoyable and balanced

[elfin night]

I am certain that as soon as charged bite and some mutations get addressed, as well as maybe some tiny nerfs and the arrival of larger carnivores, cerato will become both rarer to see and a creature in a healthy balancing state

But I am VERY afraid that they're gonna nerf it to the ground with all the complaints it has

same as dilo, when dilo is fine except for the venom and it being buggy

[pure tiger]

How big of a pack size can the cera reach?

[elfin night]

this is likely a very hot take, but i genuinely believe legacy Giga or legacy Maia were so much worse of a problem to their meta than cerato is to evrima right now

[elfin night]

servers can put their own legal caps but the limit is four in the same groups with their tags

[pure tiger]

Ah ok, that’s much better than what I thought. Yesterday I had the horror of meeting 7 on NA 10 and thought they had a cap of 10

[elfin night]

I've sometimes seen groups of like 6-7 running around

which is something that absolutely wouldn't happen if the kids wanting to play their little badass stompy carni had to grow something that was harder to achieve

but as I've said, a dangerous mix: cera is the strongest carnivore while simultaneously being the easiest

and since apex carnivores get bias many people go there

[pure tiger]

Tbh I wouldn’t even begin to imagine the pain of trying to start scaling them back.

[elfin night]

I really think cera is not that bad intrinsically speaking

as long as rex exists and it is FAR FAR harder to grow and cera is given a few tweaks, it will be fine

[pure tiger]

I wouldn’t mind seeing them if seeing them in those large numbers wasn’t devastating to local ecosystems causing minor famine issues.

But yah I agree harder growth and competition at its level would help balance that scale

[formal quarry]

There is no balance when 3 troodons, a cera, 2 herras, 2 tenos and an omni megamix pack

oh and a dibble

[coarse sentinel]

The strength of the Debuff could be dependent on the number of alternate species around you, and also the time it takes for the debuff to apply. In my mind you would have to travel with the other dinosaurs for say 15-20 minutes before it applied. Also the debuff would be dynamic, not static, so you could lose panic if you didn't stay close enough for long enough, but you would also gain panic if you kept rejoining the same group of dinos. This would make it so randoms would take longer to give you panic, but your friends will raise panic faster. Also once the debuff is fully applied and you are succeptible to a heart attack, the time when that event would happen would be random, sooner if the panic was applied by friendly dinos, later if it was applied by randos accidently, giving you time to remove the debuff.

I think Wallowing would be a good already ready solution for reducing anxiety.

[elfin night]

Imagine trying to be persistent with a hunt and one of the parties dies of stress 😭

Or a cera claiming a corpse from a pack

[golden whale]

#balance-feedback message
It was most likely desync given your ping. On their screen, they see you as being closer, they see where you were 1 second (or so) before (your past location) in the present, even though you see yourself as far away, he's actually closer because the ping delayed your input (movement) to the server.

Ping difference is very noticeable in fast moving combat games, try finding servers with less than 50 ping on average.

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback message THIS GUY

HE BLOCKED ME AND I CANT ❌

LMAOOOOOO

And all because I did ❌ on his past “dilo shouldn’t be faster than Omni” balance feedback and tried to expose with actual arguments that omni has enough tools to escape

😭 😭 😭

@viscid mica I am part of the naughty kid list now as well

[viscid mica]

Like I said you dv him once you blocked forever

Bro can’t handle criticism

[elfin night]

14yo omni main moment

[viscid mica]

Honestly should he blocked form the channel until he stops blocking everyone who dvs him

[viscid mica]

Wouldn’t be suprised

[elfin night]

If a dinosaur can’t run away in a straight line or outstam another it is totally unviable

[viscid mica]

He obviously sucks if he’s really struggling that much

[elfin night]

Terrible design objectively and you’re an evil dilo main if you disagree

[elfin night]

Real, and refuses to believe otherwise

Even though omni in the open shreds dilo

[coarse sentinel]

This wouldn't happen in my scenario because you would never be close enough for long enough to accumulate 100% anxiety. Remember the accumulation of stress is dynamic, so ideally it would be based on distance, time, and species. It would take a long time for a pack of troodons to give a carno/stego 100% anxiety, so they're not getting pushed off a corpse by anything that wouldn't otherwise.

In the case of persistence hunting, unless you were literally running 3 feet away from them for 20 minutes you wouldn't have to worry about it. The debuff would literally just be to kill tight mixpacks trying to fight together in scenarios that don't make sense.

If you're a bunch of herbivores it shouldn't ever apply, but a dibble and carno working and fighting closely together would be at high risk of dying from anxiety. You could technically still mixpack, but you'd have to space out more, and be more aware of exactly what was around you. It would give nonsensical Mixpacks an inherent weakness that doesn't currently exist. Mixpack is strong because each species covers the others weaknesses. Distance between allies creates weakness, it creates openings, and makes PVP more dynamic.

Mix packing doesn't feel balanced, nor does it make sense when viewed through a realistic lens. Lizards don't get along with each other. There is a reason the term "Lizard brain" exists. Predators do not hunt together, especially apex predators. These are animals that function largely on fight or flight responses, and if players force their dinos into stressful situations some mechanic mirroring the adverse effects of that stress just make sense for accuracy and gameplay.

[elfin night]

paragraphs would help a lot

[viscid mica]

You severely underestimate the spite of fast small tiers towards large herbi

You could EASILY grief by jsut staying near them

Until pooof dead

[coarse sentinel]

but the small tier carno's would die from the mechanic first?

[viscid mica]

Oh so galli can troll carni then

Wouldn’t work been discussed before

there are like 9 reasons mainly around the fact that any mechanic made could be easily abused

[coarse sentinel]

Yeah I disagree, and think that believing it is, is an argument based in extreme circumstances that wouldn't actually happen for various other reasons.

[viscid mica]

I can think of 7 players including myself off the top my head that would 100% take advantage of that to nuke large groups for free food

It would end awfully

Why hunt when all I need to do is stay close and cause hell

[coarse sentinel]

Because you're receiving the same debuff from the mechanic yourself. As a smaller character, you would be more susceptible. Larger characters would have a significantly longer time to hit 100% anxiety. You would run out of food and water before you actually successfully abused it against someone. Or you would spend so long making so much noise other dinos would show up and change the fight anyway.

The only circumstance that would be inherently strong would be if you had a group of 8+ that rotated out on a single player to minimize their recovery time. It would take too long though, since you'd have to rotate one at a time to make it efficient enough, and someone else would show up at that point.

Also you would need to feed and water yourselves, and considering the target would be mobile the whole time, it would be really really hard to actually pull off.

[nocturne wind]

Bahahahahahahha yes I made fsh block list

[nocturne wind]

I think you wrote this very well I think too many players are too quick to wanting to nerf dinos into the ground I believe also that with the arrival of harder to grow larger carnivores cera will slowly phase out much more then you see it today I think like you said with some minor tweaks and nerfs to some mutations that it has amazing synergies with a lot less people will feel like it is oppressive and it will find a more balanced place in the ecosystem

[vivid hazel]

Dilos should not be faster than an Omni that does not make any sense.

Dilos should either be fast but lighter or Dilos are heavier but slower than omni

[worthy steeple]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/807809192537882647/1099161731445567568/attachment.gif

[crystal wharf]

omni can jump
theres your equalizing factor

[dusky surge]

explain troodon then

should we slow down omni so that troodon is faster?

[viscid mica]

ok here @vivid hazel we reduce dilo speed in exchange to balance it out we are removing omni jump OR we could reduce omni turn range to match dilo so that its fair deal?

[viscid mica]

@haughty grotto what you doing upvoting that you know better dilo would be awful with how slow it turns carno dam near out maneuver dilo

[haughty grotto]

dilo can stay the same, omni speed could use a slight buff

[viscid mica]

maybe a lil buff would bne fine like 1/2km but bro said nerf 1 not buff the other

[dusky surge]

omni doesn't need it though

if you make omni faster than dilo, dilo's screwed

[viscid mica]

yea...

[dusky surge]

people just forgetting about agility and the capability to jump

[viscid mica]

i dunno some people have never tried do a 90o left turn that llitterally nothing else can do

[worthy steeple]

i’d say jump is useless 90% of the time, but omni got agility which is a lot more important and tbf omni vs dilo 1v1 is purely omni sided

not to mention that it can simply pounce it and kill, because buck is useless

[viscid mica]

ya and group fight are all about team pounces if a duo gets a pin for even 3 or 4 seconds thats well over half that dilos health

[dusky surge]

in the new biome they added it looks pretty useful

god i love the new biome

[viscid mica]

?

[edgy crow]

If Dilo is slower than omni, Dilo becomes unviable. Simple.

[viscid mica]

basically

in the end its just a

https://tenor.com/view/jarvis-jarvis-skill-issue-skill-issue-gif-24471438

[worthy steeple]

which one?

[dusky surge]

new east

it is something you have to explore to understand why it's so good

[worthy steeple]

the delta rework?

[viscid mica]

[dusky surge]

i dont think delta got a rework

[haughty grotto]

tbh i dont really care about dilo's speed specifically
i'll take anything that will nerf it to the ground until the devs fix the clones

its the most busted and oppressive carnivore in the game with this free magic spell casting

i dont even mind dilo's speed being 55 as long as those clones stop doing damage

[worthy steeple]

not the delta, sorry, but it was definitely somewhere near on the stream, can you show me on the map where it is?

[nocturne wind]

Yeah dilo so op

[worthy steeple]

i would rather have dilo with clones that confuse me for dilo to land more bites instead of dilo just pressing one button to win.

not to mention the face tank problem, dilos just face tank till you’re envenomed and then krill you with million clones, so lame

[dusky surge]

go up the river east. you'll find it.

it's where east plains once were

[worthy steeple]

ahhh i see now

is east plains lake now connected to the river?

[dusky surge]

its an entire new biome lol

[viscid mica]

It’s completely useless without them. And all it is is venom damage, you want DoT over clones?

[haughty grotto]

If you truly think dilo is completely useless without clone damage, then I am very sorry to say, despite all the time you may have put, you do not understand dilo and need a free magic spell to make any good use of it.

[viscid mica]

It’s Litterally just venom

And try hunting anything bigger than you as dilo no venom then smart ah

It’s on official go ahead

[worthy steeple]

i mean… i want you to play the dilo without the clones and try to kill anything that is not helpless juvie and record that for us pls

[haughty grotto]

Just the vision and smell block for 5+ minutes is strong enough
I can't believe my eyes really, how is it possible for you to advocate keeping hundreds of thousands of damage risk free spamming

[viscid mica]

And you hate clones too

[worthy steeple]

yeah lol, clones suck

[viscid mica]

I’m not saying venom doesn’t need a nerf on how long it lasts

But they do need to do damage as it IS VENOM

It’s like getting bit by a rattle snake

[haughty grotto]

It's the absolute utterly worst mechanic in the entire game
There is nothing that is worse than clone damage
Top no.1 thing that needs to be removed immediately

[viscid mica]

It’s just a cool way to apply the damage

Omni main moment

This is def some omni main activity

[worthy steeple]

not necessary. it can be just visual stuff

my ideal dilo is the one that spawns clones as distraction to land more bites on confused prey.

[viscid mica]

Dilo whole thing is being a night demon

[slim dragon]

Easy fix, replace clone damage with a damage multiplier on dilo's next bite

[worthy steeple]

nice, it doesn’t mean anything tho

[viscid mica]

Let’s be honest it’s insanely easy to tell clones apart form a player

[worthy steeple]

not if you make good ai

[haughty grotto]

I have more hours on dilo than I do on omni
Please do not undermine my argument by using pathetic insults on how many hours I spend playing what dino

I feel 10000x stronger than anything else in the game when I play dilo than any other carnivore

It's absolutely utterly broken with no counter

[viscid mica]

Ya let’s go DoT so fun slowly taking damage that you can’t do anything about at all vs clones that you can technically kill

[slim dragon]

Get bitten by a clone once ? Next dilo bite will deal 2x damage
Get bitten by a clone twice ? Next dilo bite will deal 3x damage
And so on, until the effect wears off after some time

[worthy steeple]

too op

[haughty grotto]

Actually it's not op at all
It requires dilo to ACTUALLY GO IN AND ATTACK

[slim dragon]

Hm, how do I put it..?
It's exactly the same as current clones
But weaker
Lol

[worthy steeple]

doesn’t matter, too op. dilo bites too fast, it’s gonna be insane dps

[slim dragon]

On the NEXT bite lol
Not on every bite

[worthy steeple]

3x dilo bite is 255.

it’s too much.

[haughty grotto]

The only I think I see here from you is a dilo main who doesn't want to see it's free risk free damage taken away @viscid mica
Which is extremely sad tbh
The second you actually require any sort of skill to play dilo, you call it useless? I can't believe it

[viscid mica]

Omni mains not realizing that even without venom they are one of the few things a dilo can still fight cuz bite speed and zoomies (and every omni try’s to face take dilo )

[worthy steeple]

let’s be honest here, dilo will always be lame if its just bite and m2

[viscid mica]

He’ll ya I’m a dilo main now

[worthy steeple]

clones clearly need a rework

[viscid mica]

Skill issue

[haughty grotto]

Of course you are, you didn't need to confirm it
It's easy playing the easiest and most op dino in the game

[worthy steeple]

why are you both trying to insult each other lmao

[viscid mica]

[viscid mica]

He mad more than 1 person says he wrong and his cope is to roast me for wanting stuff to be fair

Because I’m a dilo main now

[worthy steeple]

you do the same thing tho

[viscid mica]

Just like how I’m a cera main and I’m a stego main

[haughty grotto]

Tbh I'm mostly in shock than anything else
He usually makes logical arguments so I'm surprised how he made a 180 u turn

[viscid mica]

if they give up on debating it I won’t waste time and match the energy ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[worthy steeple]

btw, are dilos one bite = death again?

[viscid mica]

Wdym

[cosmic pelican]

Yes

[worthy steeple]

like biting once during nighttime and letting clones kill the prey

[cosmic pelican]

Venom got fixed

[slim dragon]

I wouldn't say venom dealing damage is necessary for dilo to exist, but its niche and skill floor drastically shift if it doesn't

[worthy steeple]

jesus fkingj christ WHY

[viscid mica]

Oh ya the night application is silly and lasts for nearly 10 minutes and needs a nerf asap

[edgy crow]

"""""""""""""""""""fixed"""""""""""""""""""

[viscid mica]

180 from what

[slim dragon]

Especially since you cannot see the hallucinations yourself

[worthy steeple]

WHY, can i just play the game and have fun without dying to single bite

[cosmic pelican]

Git gud, dont get bit by a thing half your size

[viscid mica]

All I said was a 1/2 km buff to omni wouldn’t be terrible

[slim dragon]

And that's where the clones damage multiplier instead of ddealing direct damage comes from :P

[viscid mica]

I never said anything about dilo venom

[worthy steeple]

it’s only one of the fastest dinos in the game😭

[viscid mica]

DoT then they can say it does too much of that instead of being able to survive it sense you can fight clones you can’t fight DoT

[haughty grotto]

As in, I used to respect your arguments cause you make sense most of the time.
But in this case you have proven to be completely illogical and thrown all my respect for you out the window by resorting to insults and calling me and omni main with skill issue when you know full well (you literally asked me a few weeks ago) that I have several hundred hours on all carnivores especially dilo.
Literally as a dilo player I am not afraid to admit how op this mechanic is

[worthy steeple]

i hate this, well can’t wait for half of the server to be dilos again

[viscid mica]

I’m saying it’s a omni main comment read back what I said

Especially sense it’s the same thing Fsh spam posts and blocks everyone over as he is THE OMNI MAIN for sucks at surviving dilos

[cosmic pelican]

Picking a dino slower than dilo is just a skill issue ngl

[viscid mica]

Iike word for word same comment posts every day

[edgy crow]

should've played galli smh

[worthy steeple]

real ahah

[viscid mica]

Everyone hating on dilo clones when they could just be suffering from simple DoT

[haughty grotto]

In a way I am a little happy rex and allo are coming soon so far less ppl will actually play dilo therefore it's busted state won't really be noticed

[viscid mica]

I’m certain the length will hopefully eventually get touched so that while strong and still fully capable of hunting mid sized dinosaurs it isn’t the forever night

[haughty grotto]

I don't mind a DoT which is like, what, 20 damage every 10 seconds
But 85x3 every 20 seconds per dilo is too ridiculous and basically kills anything under 1T after just 1-2 bites (envenomation)

[slim dragon]

Haha
So somehow you believe those two will be able to survive against current non-buggy dilo

[viscid mica]

The DoT would be the same as the clones just no visible effect other than your health draining rapidly

[slim dragon]

So just... Less damage
Doesn't need to be a DoT

[viscid mica]

Allo will 1 tap easily and Rex will do the same it will be a extremely difficult hunt especially sense you gotta reapply t3 a lot to grind throu 9k health

[haughty grotto]

No they won't, dilo packs would be able to kill them from miles away easily after an easy ambush in which they get 1-2 bites.

But ppl won't play dilo much to take advantage of this, cause they would want to play allo and rex instead

[viscid mica]

Y’all really think allo sweats won’t smoke dilos!?

[slim dragon]

Dibble/stego VS dilo at night, who wins ?

[viscid mica]

Same skill?

And we talking bad across the board or good?

On average in a 1v1 dibble and stego both easily

Dilo bleed quite a lot not carno bad but probably one of the worse ones

[haughty grotto]

If 3-4 dilos approach allo or subadult rex, sure maybe one dilo dies, the unlucky one who gets pinned, but the rest will have more than enough time to get it to t3 and then watch from afar till it dies

85x9 every 20 seconds

[viscid mica]

Oh I don’t think allo loses that and a half sized Rex will both be bigger than a Maia and quick

We are talking high damage lots of bleed and the ability to basically 1 tap in half the time of omni double pin

Even if they don’t pin off rip get the rest low get some alt bits

[haughty grotto]

Yeah, one dilo will die for sure

[viscid mica]

Roughly dibble sized would take a good minute to t3

[haughty grotto]

But the rest can just grab popcorn after t3

[viscid mica]

In a group of 4 I’d say prolly 2/3

If the allo is smart they win

Like I said dilo venom time needs a nerf for sure lasts WAY to long

[haughty grotto]

Not in dilos current state no
There's nothing even the smartest allo can do when the dilos run away and spam rmb

[viscid mica]

Have to get you to t3

You are dibble sized nearly that is not a quick t3 even at night

[worthy steeple]

depends who lands the first attack lol

[viscid mica]

Play smart play well

[worthy steeple]

bite stego once at the beginning of the night and let clones spawn every few seconds to do 85 damage, it will most likely die before morning

[viscid mica]

You can 1 tap venom a stego even hs

It’s about 12+ body maybe 5ish heads at night?

[worthy steeple]

doing this to the ceras is even funnier, just face tank it bite it once and let it melt

[viscid mica]

Last time we tried we got t2 after a lot and then started dropping XD

[viscid mica]

Ya dilo venom length is goofy strong

[worthy steeple]

yeah lol..

[viscid mica]

5 minutes day 10 or so night

Plus random spawning clones ontop of the summons

Big yikes

Way to much time to spam clones as one of the fastest boys

[worthy steeple]

tbf its so annoying, the venom duration is too long

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[viscid mica]

I’m willing to bet physical money that reducing the time by a minimum of half would significantly reduce the oppressiveness of its venom

Unfortunately unless you fully redo dilo kit it can’t survive as is without damage clones

[worthy steeple]

most likely, but imo it should be same as troodon venom, if dilo bites you just once the venom should last less than a minute. but it should stack if it bites you more times

[viscid mica]

(I played dilo during the bug where clones did no damage we couldn’t even 3v1 a lone dibble bro was yellow health and had 2 of us on red and 1 dead after 6 or so minutes of fighting it was brutal)

[worthy steeple]

i mean yeah, it’s too weak, boring snd useless without the clones

[viscid mica]

Ye

[worthy steeple]

just run and bite.. (cera 2.0)

but even cera is more fun tbh ahahahaha

[viscid mica]

Cera atleast has some weight behind it so it can get hit more than 2 times and keep going

Also @haughty grotto I defend all Dino’s equally as to give everything the fairest opportunity I’m sorry if you find my opinion of certain Dino’s disconcerting and I mean no offence in any comment I make in response to stuff as it type what comes to mind first and foremost

[haughty grotto]

I don't mind a logical discussion my guy
But when you turn what I say into a 'omni main moment' or 'skill issue', it's hard to have a conversation

[viscid mica]

Respectfully if you where to go back or see all the times I’ve seen the exact word for word comments they come from omni mains that can’t handle dilo speed and forget that omni can 90 turn to either side without losing speed.

AND I genuinely thought you where a omni man cuz I swear you’ve said so in Gen chat somewhere

[haughty grotto]

When I myself am the dilo player in this situation and I'm admitting how busted it feels to do 1k dmg for free, i feel guilty that my kill is not even well earned

I'm not the victim who died to the dilo and is now complaining that they're op

[viscid mica]

I mean reduce the length of venom and it’ll make the obnoxious length of it and amount of damage it can do without your involvement significantly

[slim dragon]

Seeing as dibble and ste both have terrible NV, it's dilo

[haughty grotto]

The length of venom would have to be reduced to like 30 sec though, which I don't see happening

[viscid mica]

[viscid mica]

Na cut it in half ish and it’ll be huge

[haughty grotto]

That's still too many hundreds of free dmg

[viscid mica]

(I don’t respect the lives of the under 2Ts)

[viscid mica]

Uhhh roughlyyyyyyy 3 off rip you regen 1 every 10? Seconds soooooooo 2.5 min would be like…… 1k ish slightly more!? (During day)

[haughty grotto]

#general-feedback-discussion message

We had this convo here
Either you forgot or are confusing me with someone else

[viscid mica]

Both

Any way

Reduce dilo venom time make all problems go away (still strong against smalls but will reduce its passive ability against anything over 2T)

[shadow vortex]

I’d prefer longer passive cooldown on clone stacks, but they replenish faster with successful bites xd

And fixing their behavior. Like this invincibility, weird running, path-finding…

[daring coral]

https://youtu.be/0bmD0pInnN4?si=gn14K9RrqyDNHeEb

or give troodons more stam especially when chasing prey, prey will just run and out stam troodon

Many YouTubers have been speaking on the issue lately

[woven wind]

Same as people above, my two cents playing Trodon recently :

• Carno needs a click release or cooldown on the charge, because it's too easy just holding the right click to charge and hit / kill things that you don't even see / know are there.
• Carno charge hitboxes are too wide
• Trodon needs a small stamina buff / give a small stamina debuff / decrease when poisoning his target (or some kind of similar system that penalizes a target reaching stage 2 or stage 3 poison)

[daring coral]

Troodon could benefit from a buff by improving its stamina efficiency or enhancing its venom effects. Increasing its stamina pool or reducing stamina drain would allow for more sustained encounters. Additionally, refining its venom mechanics—such as introducing progressive debuffs through different venom stages—could add strategic depth. Early-stage venom could slightly reduce a target’s stamina regen, while later stages could introduce movement penalties or vision blur, forcing prey into a weakened state before succumbing. These changes would make Troodon a more viable and feared nocturnal predator.

[elfin night]

The ptera stamina discourse will never end…

Go play BoB ptera 😭

[vivid hazel]

This is basically my suggestion sheesh people here are kinda toxic just starting a healthy debate. Sheeesh toxic people around this "Discussion"

[elfin night]

Would omni really need that though?

Is it really that big of a deal that, if both start running at the same time and in a straight line, dilo can catch up an omni in about a whole minute and with an initial difference of about 12 meters?

[vivid hazel]

Kinda, that 1-2km will do great and make it a bit competstive but a 4-5km speed diff and weight diff is kinda unfair for Omnis. If an omni is caught by 2 dilos they just run it down easily? Come on omni should have a bit speed yeah. I mean top speed of a FG Omni is 46 or maybe not reducing the speed from peak sub adult 50kms to 46km in FG

[elfin night]

0.7 kph is a negligible difference

[viscid mica]

I mean you said nerf dilo

[vivid hazel]

Increase speed of FG omni

[viscid mica]

And dilo isn’t exactly super strong beyond venom being good

[elfin night]

Dilo is only 20cm per second faster than omni and omni has the jump and agility as well as superior running stam 💀

[viscid mica]

Yea….

[vivid hazel]

I just mean or you can increase the speed of FG omni thats just my arguement but if tou want to fight for the nerf dilo you can dwell on it I mean go knock yourself out

Kk fine you win guys hahaha not going to argue anymore hahahaha

[elfin night]

Like BRO, do the math

If you can hear a dilo running from about 30 meters away, and you start running in a damn straight line as omni, the dilo literally can’t catch you

[viscid mica]

No im just saying that’s what was written

[vivid hazel]

Kk math wiz 🙌🫡

[elfin night]

that fsh blocking us because in his opinion this made Omni completely unviable

Like what????

[vivid hazel]

Ahh i see I see must have read it a bit aggressive then hahaha my bad buds

[viscid mica]

Na your good I get wanting omni abit quicker as it requires a lot of practice to juke dilo easily or consistently at that matter

[elfin night]

50 kph omni is mental

[vivid hazel]

Maybe hahaha just bummed out that from a 50km sub adult it gets a 46km in FG

I mean yeah 50Km for sub but FG 46 hahahahaha

I want that young omni speed a bit longer hahahaha

[elfin night]

Yeah sub speed for dilo and omni is nuts

[viscid mica]

It’s mainly to keep omni from blasting down bigger stuff with having probably the best or 2nd best agility in the game

[elfin night]

Second best which is crazy for a creature that deals that much damage and is so quiet

Only dryo comes close really

Maybe troodon too

[vivid hazel]

Also have a bad habbit wanting to group hunt a stego that knows alt sttacks hahahaha

[viscid mica]

Fun fact omni is the best for hunting stego rn

You just need to bait out 8 alt attacks and it’s GG

2 too pin if under 20% stam or 30% bleed

[elfin night]

Mfw the stego doesn’t get baited

But that’s true still

[viscid mica]

I dunno I have good lock baiting

[elfin night]

I literally never get baited as stego more than once and by then I just regen my stam

After some fine playing stego I’d rather get bitten once in the shoulder while dodging headshots and lose a minimal amount of health in order to make them nervous in case they’re good

Because I know for a fact after playing cera that the stegos who don’t get baited are often the scary ones

[vivid hazel]

I love playing omni hahahaha but we need good players using omni cause its a group effort for us to hunt something hahahaha

But damn a young Rex Speed is crazy!!! 55km!!!

[elfin night]

I remember when someone was advocating for an Omni buff simply because of randoms

[vivid hazel]

200 bite force for a youngling

Damn it how donyou out run that monster hahahaha

[elfin night]

Turns like a truck, no special effects apparently and very unimpressive stamina though (luckily)

[vivid hazel]

Ahhh yes the turn rate hahahah but still 55km Gallis run for your life you have competition

[elfin night]

They can use their eyeballs and start running from a good distance

[vivid hazel]

A rex with good night vision is the death of Maias and Gallis

But it will be fun tho

[elfin night]

As long as maia is buffed properly there should be no problem

[whole bison]

omni needs better buffs, make the bleeds better

[elfin night]

Bleeding out an adult carno with a 60-70% stamina pounce isn’t enough?

[whole bison]

since when could you do that? The stamina sucks after one pounce rmb combo they can just chase you down and if you regen stamina on a rock they stop their bleed at rest

[elfin night]

Omni pounce literally has enough bleed damage with full stam to bleed out an adult carno without fibrosis if they don’t sit down, less stam required if they run around

Its bleed or damage aren’t bad, and the fact that you might need to waste that much stamina is because it is a way to balance it out. You could absolutely keep the pressure with another omni, and it is totally fine to prevent a raptor from doing that to a carnivore 3 times larger than itself with ease

It’s not even that hard to kill dilos with either damage or bleed as an omni in a one on one in the open

[slim dragon]

@whole bison what venom are you talking about ?

[whole bison]

I mean cera

Fs bacteria, whatever it is

vomit sickness..

what you supposed to do when you go from full water and full health to 5% water, 5% food, 50% health and bleed to half ? You can't counter that.. one bite to a dilo

[sage marsh]

@edgy crow you didn't even read that my guy.

[edgy crow]

I did

and I'm not your guy

[sage marsh]

No you did not that was an instant downvote.

[edgy crow]

except I did read it

I don't like the idea of charge being attached to... a charge

[sage marsh]

I dont either but we do it with Dilo and Carno is in a horrible spot right now. I would rather its charge be a reliable tool than a gimmick. Right now it's a gimmick.

[cosmic pelican]

Carno is fine rn imo, just needs a growth time reduction

[elfin night]

@uncut osprey learn to drift brother 😭

Nothing can get behind a competent dibble

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message again, it'd be epic

[elfin night]

I wouldn’t mind it all that much

But like, omni react go brrrr

Imagine losing a 1v1 as dibble against a cera

I actually laughed reading that

Dibble bullies literally everyone save for stego and deino, and for steg all you need is another dibble 💀

[edgy crow]

It'd just make sense

[elfin night]

I will give that to you

I don’t think it would be a devastating change for omni at all. It would still have its place and work just about as fine

[uncut osprey]

tell it to stego or carno,cera is too broken 💀 with is wild bc he is a scavenger

[elfin night]

Dedicated scavenger and corpse bully don’t exclude fighting competence per se

And what do you mean tell it to stego or carno?

[edgy crow]

The only real drastic change I think that would result from that is it no longer being able to pin Galli

but it'd still one shot it with a damage pounce

[elfin night]

Vomit sickness infliction is far from being cera’s biggest problem at the moment

[elfin night]

True

[uncut osprey]

that stego or carno cant doo anything to cera especially when someone is a new player

[uncut osprey]

Okay? but 3ton animal dying to 1,3t scavenger smth aint right

[elfin night]

If someone is a new player, you could give them a cera and they would get dunked on by a single omni. That is not a very valid or fair metric since obviously you need to know how to handle your dinosaur on a basic level to perform well with it

AND WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? It is cera the one who can’t do anything vs stego, no one can besides a pair of dibbles or other stegos. And carno is a small game hunter that can leave it in the dust with simply w shift, and even then it can still kill ceras by dodging the charged bites as it charges and stuns the cera.

[elfin night]

Your gameplay ain’t right if you lost that, man. It doesn’t have to be a game issue, if you are new just be aware that you might have fumbled but the next time it will be different

Dibble dunks on cera so hard

If they are equal skill or even if the dibble has some awareness

[alpine plover]

ay which dino should i use if i wanna fight people

[elfin night]

https://youtu.be/nvK_B7DNvos?si=W9VYJQSmChCQYE9v without breaking a sweat

[elfin night]

Not something you should ask in this channel, but good picks for brawling would be: teno, dibble, cera and maybe omni

[sage marsh]

In what world is Carno fine right now? Cause clearly we live in different ones.

[uncut osprey]

okay meaby you kinda right but still cera should be nerfed is still used by too many people and is really annoying

[elfin night]

It doesn’t really need much of a nerf

It’s just an environmental thing

[uncut osprey]

i hope allo gonna end cera era

or rex

btw sorry for being too defensive i just got mad ngl

[elfin night]

Call me crazy, but I think that carno as a small game hunter is far more healthy to the game than an inescapable freight train with 2k health capable of ending adult tenos in 6-7 bites

[elfin night]

I get it. Either way, cera is everywhere merely because of a mix of different factors: easiest carnivore to grow+being the strongest+bias of playerbase towards big carnivores+being a little overtuned with the charged bite+some fairly strong synergies with two second slot mutations

[cosmic pelican]

Idk I managed to kill nearly 20 kills as a solo carno the other day, not counting juvis

[elfin night]

rex will take off a lot of pressure

[cosmic pelican]

Omnis, ceras, dilos etc

[elfin night]

I would say carno is fine rn balancing and stat wise. Problem is hunger drain at a certain point of it’s growth and the 3 hours in perfect diet

@dusk fern there are dozens of different numbers that can be tuned down to nerf a dinosaur, care to elaborate as for why a nerf is necessary? 💅

[sage marsh]

Carno should be a small game hunter. I agree but it's in a crappy position to do that from. Equal skill level Carno struggles. So it's needs leverage to facilitate it's niche. I dont think there is an issue with Carno being able to hunt Tenno.

[uncut osprey]

what about dilo is he okay? i dont find him op but venom needs adjustment

[dusk fern]

@elfin night so a baby steg with 3 bite power should no be able to kill a 60% cera in 2 hits

[uncut osprey]

i dont really see him as much unlike carno or cera

[urban delta]

its not using its bite..

[elfin night]

Carno can very much hunt teno, but it is tricky and the teno has the upper hand because it has way less capacity to disengage. If things turn ugly or the odds aren’t good, a Carno can escape more easily from 4 tenos than a teno can from 4 carnos

[dusk fern]

tail slash w.e

[elfin night]

Baby stego feels like such a way to downplay the size of your opponent, how big was it compared to your 1 ton cera?

[dusk fern]

the fact is that steg that is 10% killing a cera that is 60% is a little redic if you ask me

[uncut osprey]

stego is apex tho and is hard too play him

[elfin night]

In a vacuum it is fine leaning towards the weaker side, but with the venom as it is especially in the hordetest, it is an unfair no skill crutch that can kill anything below teno size in one bite at night with purple stage

[sage marsh]

Agreed. Which is why I also think that Carno needs to have it's stam regen and group size adjusted. If it's stam doesn't regen as fast you have to choose. "Do i commit to this fight and potentially die or do i leave now while I can and try for something else." Carno shouldn't be able to pack above 2. If it's hunting small game and already is superior to what it is hunting it doesn't need numbers. Defeats to point and makes it oppressive.

[uncut osprey]

ye venom should deal smaller dmg

[dusk fern]

@uncut osprey don't ever say that again

[elfin night]

10% is as tall as your knees 😭

It probably was about your same weight if not a little less if you died in 3 blows

[dusk fern]

you think steg is more apex then cera

[elfin night]

Venom should be reworked

[elfin night]

Far more lmao

[urban delta]

yes

[dusk fern]

in this game yes

[uncut osprey]

in real life too?

[dusk fern]

you have no idea what there like in real life man

[elfin night]

I mean, did you think you could trade with a stego as big as you?

[dusk fern]

yes a 60% cera should kill a new born baby steg in 2-3 bites

[uncut osprey]

but we do tho

[elfin night]

Ceratosaurus would’ve never tried to go for a stego irl man 💀 💀 💀

Like never, unless it had a death wish

[dusk fern]

yet i hit him 4 times and he 2 shots me

[urban delta]

irl allos got like 1 shotted by stegos

[uncut osprey]

ong scavenger olny

[sage marsh]

Thats the thing. Fresh spawns aren't newborns

[dusk fern]

its not realistic

[uncut osprey]

yep

stego were very dangerous

[elfin night]

Again with the newborn. It is mathematically impossible that it was a newborn. It could be halfway through the morph with smaller plates and tail but that won’t deny that by your own description that stego was easily 700-1100 kg

And it has way less potential to escape or disengage than you, so of course it should be able to hold its ground

[iron tree]

it was probably a larger sub and they're just revenge balancing

just don't go after stegos. problem solved.

[elfin night]

^ Or if you wanna go, play properly and/or with a group

[uncut osprey]

solo stego is dead if cera group come by

[elfin night]

Nah

Stego shreds ceras, no matter how many there are

[uncut osprey]

it depends obvs

i got killed as stego by 7 cera megapack

[urban delta]

decent stegos can kill groups of ceras

[uncut osprey]

i killed like 5 and bleed out

[elfin night]

I have played stego 4 times and in my second I killed a pack of 5 ceras who were trying to attack me

I got in a small mudpool, didn’t get baited and I only hit early yellow health.

And I once killed 3 ceras only getting bitten once and without mud or a cliff. Just walking through a path and dodging their bites to my head

[uncut osprey]

any tips for stego?

[elfin night]

Stego is something you really shouldn’t mess with if it sees you

[uncut osprey]

is one of my fav but im bad with him ngl

[elfin night]

Dont panic swing, and practice dodging bites that go for your head. Just be patient and observe how they move and try to attack to capitalize on their mistakes

Scariest stegos are the ones who never swing

Because they rarely miss

[iron tree]

the humble rmb

[elfin night]

And then don’t spam powerswing in one spot. If you miss one, reposition for example when fighting deinos

[uncut osprey]

ye stego miss cost them big amout of stam

[elfin night]

Just take it easy

[uncut osprey]

i never know when too hit

[elfin night]

You got 6k health and you only need one blow to kill basically all current carnivores except for deino which will beg in orange or red with two hits before it can go back to the water

[uncut osprey]

like should i wait for them to be in me or come closer

[elfin night]

Know the spacing and range of the tail and simply pay more attention to what they do to know when they are taking a greater risk

[elfin night]

Wait for them and don’t swing at first unless it is a very clear hit. So if an omni or a cera runs at you from the side or behind, just wait and see because they will likely try to bait you into swinging

And then learn dodging, using your movement to briskly turn your head from one side to the other in order to dodge bites and halving the damage if they connect at all

Stego cannot come to its enemies unless it is deino or another stego. Don’t bother chasing them

[uncut osprey]

thx very much

[elfin night]

Git gud

The wise words spoken by the dark souls fandom

They apply here too. Almost all deaths in this game are things you can prevent

Almost because I am accounting for cheaters. Otherwise it is virtually 100%

Being observant and careful in this game is everything

[uncut osprey]

ye you right

[elfin night]

Especially if you are new like shown the dibble and cera thing, you should also try to be aware of your different tools and tactics available

[uncut osprey]

it was my second time playing dibble

[elfin night]

For example how dibble has one of the best drifts (actually THE best) in the entire game which allows you to quickly turn around to defend your rear

Game is also a big knowledge check

[uncut osprey]

thats why isle is soo fun if you know things is easier too survive

[elfin night]

And knowing is half of the battle

[whole bison]

What mutations for steg?

[edgy crow]

please

whats so wrong with 375kg omni

[viscid mica]

You get 1 tapped by 90% of the roaster lol plus pin power would be awful

[minor axle]

It might make herras feel even a slight bit less pain, so it would be a bad change.

[minor axle]

That’s just because cera is a big fish in a small pond, its day of reckoning will come when the giant fish (Rex) enters

[edgy crow]

[raven mist]

Omni is already fragile

are we being fr right now?

Just as bad as asking cera to be directly nerfed

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message well no one wanted that ahah

[worthy steeple]

isn’t that a good thing?👹👹👹

[edgy crow]

CHEESY HELP

[worthy steeple]

i upvoted

[edgy crow]

good

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/oi-gif-20749371

[edgy crow]

this is worse than the time I suggested to remove omni pin

[worthy steeple]

ahah

[worthy steeple]

well tbh i expect something like austro to be 375, but if we make omni 375 we should change other things as well.

so for example omni should grow a lot faster to compensate the weight loss. it will make easier to pack with other omnis and hunt, because you won’t need to spend more time growing.

it will also make it so there’s less chance you will get insta pinned, because omnis weight less, it’s grapple nerf at the same time.

[edgy crow]

I agree

[severe grail]

#balance-feedback message Troodons are useless? Just make a huge group and murder everything. They grow fast and are almost impossible to see.

Not meant to be a solo dino

[raven mist]

only person that agrees

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/they-all-hated-me-todos-me-odiaban-cabizbajo-tite-caminando-gif-271476022722807553

they all hated me

[raven mist]

[edgy crow]

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-spider-man-web-of-shadows-depressed-sad-gif-16524395

[edgy crow]

insert the gif of manny walking against the migration in ice age

[slim dragon]

@edgy crow I'm with you on this

[slim dragon]

But people are downvoting you because of your wording

You make it sound like "nerf omni without compensation so I can kill it more easily"

[edgy crow]

ok I'll give compensation

compensation given

[worthy steeple]

LMAO

[edgy crow]

[slim dragon]

Nice

Won't get you more upvotes tho

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-scout-fridge-gif-25777785

[worthy steeple]

not like they matter anyway

[edgy crow]

see: the millions of upvotes on "make carno 1.8 tonnes again" posts

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message me when the fg trike drags my hard earned kill and dumps it in the water:

[slim dragon]

The difference with the same trike guarding the body being ?

[worthy steeple]

me, when cera died right next to my nest and that body now attracts all the predators nearby

[crimson crater]

if you have a pack you can take it down

[worthy steeple]

then take it down anyway lol

[slim dragon]

And if it's carrying a body (and therefore unable to attack) you can't ?

[crimson crater]

takes a couple of seconds to drag it away

[worthy steeple]

holy moly my spelling🔥🔥🔥

[worthy steeple]

so? i mean what’s the difference between trike body guarding the body or dragging it few meters away and then body guarding

[slim dragon]

Since we're talking in hypothetical scenarios, if you got a kill this close to water, you'd be eaten by a deino while trying to eat it anyway

[crimson crater]

assuming the trike won’t be slowed down while dragging smaller stuff, it dosen’t have to be close to the water

[slim dragon]

Why wouldn't it be slowed down while everything else is ?

[crimson crater]

a cerato isn’t slowed down if it grabs a herrera for example, so assuming the thing is significantly smaller i don’t see why not

[slim dragon]

If that's what worries you herbis could have lower thersholds to what they can carry in their mouth

But again, it's not really different from tbodyguarding

In fact, it's less of a problem because if a trike comes, dumbs the body in water, then leaves, you can still swim to the body and get it back

As opposed to needing to watch the trike standing around for 15 minutes until the body disappears

[crimson crater]

just makes it overall worse

[worthy steeple]

not at all.

[slim dragon]

I told you why it doesn't

[worthy steeple]

it actually fixes an issue where the body is near your nest and it’s attracting all the nearby predators.

[crimson crater]

i’ve had scenarios where ppl start camping cliffs, if their herbi friend were to die they would 100% drag it off to body deny

[slim dragon]

And if they drag it off they can't keep camping it

Also, you cannot attack when you're carrying anything
Doing that when a predator is nearby is a death wish

[crimson crater]

yea but the carnis wouldn’t be able to eat it

[slim dragon]

They'd have more chances at eating it than when body camping

[crimson crater]

no. takes 1 second to drag it off (in this hypothesis that is)

[worthy steeple]

so you don’t want herbivores to carry bodies just because there’s a chance they might body camp more efficiently? lol

[crimson crater]

yea no carnivore except herrera can get down cliffs and back up lol, going to eat would be a death wish

[worthy steeple]

you know there’s easiest solution, just go away for like 5 minutes and come back, herbivores won’t stay there forever

[slim dragon]

1 second is the amount of time it takes to position yourself so you can grab the body
You can add 1-2 extra seconds for the grabbing animation, then one extra second for the drop animation
Your math doesn't add up

[crimson crater]

yep enables them to do all sorts of things

[slim dragon]

It's not even more effective

[worthy steeple]

good, add a mechanic to prevent body camping

there’s not difference between body camping with ability to drag body or without, you still body camp.

[crimson crater]

have you ever heard of this word called “hyperbole”? my point being is that it takes little to no time doing so

[worthy steeple]

not to mention that body camping is not even an issue lol, again, just go away, come back later and eat.

[slim dragon]

Doing hyperbole really isn't a good way to argue

[crimson crater]

i can’t add anything lmao

[worthy steeple]

not you specifically, im talking about the devs lol

[crimson crater]

it was to emphasize my point, from now on i’ll make it more clear so u can comprehend it better

[worthy steeple]

add a mechanic to prevent the body camping, give herbivores ability to drag bodies.

both issues fixed

[crimson crater]

how would such mechanic work without being exploitable

[worthy steeple]

how it can be exploitable?

[dusky surge]

harder to exploit if the herbis can just move the bodies away from their nesting sites or whatnot

but still, a body down debuff is still bad

[slim dragon]

I did suggest a sickness mechanic that partly addressed this (which you downvoted)

[dusky surge]

because a dryo ain't moving a rex corpse away from its nest

[worthy steeple]

yeah i don’t like that.

[crimson crater]

you just wanted it lmao

[worthy steeple]

i said mechanic, not debuff specifically, read the message

i don’t know how it should work, the devs don’t know either, but they said they will work on that

[crimson crater]

that was a while ago, funny u remember that i specifically downvoted it🤔

[slim dragon]

That was this week
Also there's a list of everyone who upvoted and who downvoted every suggestion

[edgy crow]

the griefing potential is too much

[worthy steeple]

for example?

[edgy crow]

its just lame

[worthy steeple]

how can a herbivore grief with ability to drag bodies?

[edgy crow]

the onus is on you to describe why that is a good ability, not for us to describe why it wouldn't be a good ability

[slim dragon]

Getting corpses away from your nest or your hiding spot

[worthy steeple]

i literally said that, to drag the bodies from where you at, it could be a nest, could be hiding spot.

it literally cannot be exploitable

if it can then i can’t wait to see the examples

[edgy crow]

I guess its no more damaging than the herbi just staying and defending it

idk

just seems unnecessary

[worthy steeple]

exactly, it doesn’t change anything

it’s just a qol for herbivores

i don’t want rotten cera body right next to my nest, thank you very much

[edgy crow]

thoughts on my omni suggestion

[dusky surge]

the compensation hardly feels like compensation. it's just a worse animal

i get you dislike omni but like it's just not gonna fly well

[slim dragon]

Actually, omni being 450kg is powercreep among small tiers
It makes it so every small animal has to be designed to either be over 450, or omni fodder

[edgy crow]

omni isn't exactly in need of health, damage pounce can one shot a dilo

[slim dragon]

Omni being lighter would give more leniency in how much the small tiers can weight

[edgy crow]

so what if the twerp takes one less stomp/bite to kill

its still really deadly

having less hp just... makes it slightly harder to play

which is good

[edgy crow]

exactly

plus, tell me omni's model looks 450kg

[slim dragon]

Oh yeah THAT

[edgy crow]

It doesn't, its just a buffer for an already OP creature

[slim dragon]

I really need someone with their own server to take side-by-side screenshots of every dino 700 kg and under
To show how much omni makes no sense

[edgy crow]

omnis are slightly less oppressive and take more skill to play
the scale for the isle makes more logical sense
sure galli doesn't get pinned anymore but it still gets one shot by a damage pounce

where is the issue with 375kg omni

[slim dragon]

If omni was lighter, the weight threshold for pinning could also be made more lenient
Like, bipedal animals under 150% of omni's weight get knocked down by the initial impact before getting able to get up (sure it's OP but omni players can't live with a not-op animal)

[crimson crater]

most models in this game are somewhat inaccurate tbf, 375 is a bit unreasonable, 400 sure

[edgy crow]

agreed

idk, a smaller omni just sounds more... fun? dare I say

crazy concept

having to manage your hp instead of being inexplicably around the same weight as pachy is... interesting, even

[crimson crater]

its still fragile, gets 2 tapped by most things

[edgy crow]

not fragile enough for its size

[slim dragon]

So is every small tier

[edgy crow]

like when livyatan was bringing up maia not one shotting omni with stomp

thats not maia not having enough damage output

thats omni being too big

[crimson crater]

how is 450 too big

[slim dragon]

It's way too big compared to its visual size

[crimson crater]

okay, adjust the model then

[edgy crow]

it just is, idk how else to say it

I just showed an example with maia

[worthy steeple]

i agree, 400 omni, 375 austro.

with 400kg omni the pin and grapple will be less effective. which is a good thing

[edgy crow]

omnis shouldn't be shrugging off a maia stomp and living

[edgy crow]

that austro feels too big

350kg, hell even lower

300kg

[crimson crater]

more like maia having bad dmg for its size

[crimson crater]

300?

[worthy steeple]

because it’s designed to fight small things, so the damage is fine

[edgy crow]

give maia too much damage and it just starts running down and killing ceras

[worthy steeple]

more damage will make it more of a hunter and i don’t want that

[crimson crater]

ik, was explaining how its a maia issue not an omni one

[edgy crow]

austro is very gracile

[worthy steeple]

it already does tbh ahah

[worthy steeple]

yeah for sure

[crimson crater]

it can be that at 350 or so

[edgy crow]

except its the exact opposite, an omni issue, not a maia one

omni shouldn't be big enough so that it can shrug off a 3.8 tonne cow's stomp

[worthy steeple]

400 omni will also most likely die to one maia stomp, which is also a good thing.

[dusky surge]

how i'd do it

• 375kg
• 55 damage
• Faster growth
• SCRAMBLE BABY

Could also buff its speed to be faster than dilo given the massive weight discrepancy but the scramble provides a decent mobility factor

[worthy steeple]

fair

but i don’t like the speed part

[edgy crow]

HUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

...faster than dilo? you've lost me

[worthy steeple]

well i don’t mind it being faster, just not as fast as dilo

[edgy crow]

at no point should omni EVER be faster than dilo

[dusky surge]

give the weight decrease it def starts to make more sense

idk i feel like if the weight factor is that different meh

[edgy crow]

still retains the same damage output with damage pounce

still retains the ability to grapple dilo with only two omnis

[worthy steeple]

dilo is faster so it’s fine

[dusky surge]

again, eh

it's not like 2 omnis can't grapple a pachy, let alone one reducing it to a trot

[worthy steeple]

my issue is that single omni can pounce pachy and it won’t be able to do anything about it.

[edgy crow]

that's a pachy issue

[edgy crow]

like literally everything else but the speed buff is fine

[worthy steeple]

no, its pounce issue

how’s that pachy issue

[edgy crow]

pachy doesn't have the means to stop the omnis pouncing it

[dusky surge]

it... can fracture the leg

that LITERALLY prevents omni from pouncing it LMAO

[edgy crow]

inconsistently and rarely sure

again, back to being a pachy issue

[dusky surge]

not that inconsistent tbh. Knock 'em down and you can get a two for one on fractures

[worthy steeple]

yeah but only the leg, there’s a chance you can fracture body and it won’t stop them from being able to pounce lol

pachy vs omni is a bit complicated balance wise, pachy is stronger for sure, but the issue is if pachy gets pounced it can’t buck, it will just waste all the stamina and get grabbed.

[edgy crow]

I don't have an issue with two omnis grappling a pachy

its just that pachy has no easy way of stopping it

[dusky surge]

also actually if you hit an omni with the alt-attack midpounce it does indeed cancel the animation

and the ram also cancels the animation

like tbh pachy absolutely has an easy way to stop it, the issue is what happens if it doesn't

which is basically instant death lmao

[worthy steeple]

exactly, buck should get buffed

[edgy crow]

how did this turn into a pachy balancing convo again ?

dread it, run from it, pachy balancing arrives all the same

[worthy steeple]

yeah lol

[worthy steeple]

AHAHAHAH

[edgy crow]

[edgy crow]

society if bucking wasn't rng:

[worthy steeple]

if it also wasn’t draining all your stamina while omni is getting free damage or bleed

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-rave-dwtd-hex-gif-26994429

[edgy crow]

I love having my fate decided not by a lack of skill, not by bad timing, but by randomly generated numbers

[worthy steeple]

well, tbf i died to omni pounce just once.. as a fresh spawn baby teno… AHAHAH

[worthy steeple]

yeah lol

my biggest game balance issue right meow is the dilo. i hate that THING

dilo rework pretty please

[edgy crow]

my biggest would just so happen to be armkneeraptor pin

pin rework pretty please

[worthy steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/860702568145354795/1340505598638166056/attachment.gif

[iron tree]

Let's make maia paleo accurate

[edgy crow]

remove the hippo hands and give it edmontosaurus hooves

[iron tree]

Every allo main will cry for maia nerfs

[iron tree]

Just make it realistic 4t animals hurt

[edgy crow]

1000 damage stomp

[iron tree]

Hell yeah

Shove + stomp = crushed cerato

[eager saddle]

You can’t pounce with broken legs right? So cripple them.

[cosmic pelican]

Any type of fracture prevents the omni from killing you with one pounce, so unless you get ambushed, you should be fine as a pachy

[elfin night]

Ambush the Omnis instead

[eager saddle]

A pachy did try to do that to me😂 it was funny suddenly seeing a pachy head held high sprintjng out of the bushes

[hasty coyote]

Issue there is that it’s also not easy to hit the Omni outside of ambush. They can turn around you faster than you can turn. And a single miss is death. Meanwhile omnis can escape after tanking a hit easily (as long as it ain’t leg)

I’m still of the opinion fractures are way too op, which forces pachy to be overly reliant on them, else it becomes op. Any future fracture Dinos will have this same problem until fractures are rebalanced.

[slim dragon]

Fracture tiers

[elfin night]

Give fracture to maia

[slim dragon]

With tiered fractures, why not

Hell, even carno's charge, or even bites could inflict some amount of blunt damage if we had fracture tiers

[elfin night]

Getting hit by a mile away and given a debuff from a carno charge is crazy

[slim dragon]

wdym getting hit by a mile away
It's not a ranged attack

[elfin night]

It was mostly a joke, but I feel like carno is the one whose opponents suffer the most from terrible connection or even just a bit of lag

Since it is so easy to land and easy to spam

[hasty coyote]

Even those would likely require a rebalance on fractures, if they just had the same effects with lesser values, the problems would def still be very noticeable. The issue is that the current fractures limit combat potential WAY too much, while limiting escape/chase options too little. This is the opposite of how fractures should work imo because they end up being a way to just instantly win a fight rather than a method of escape or a decent advantage in a fight if the target keeps pressuring. So it ends up in this state where any dino given it has to be incredibly weak in every other stature or it is either unapproachable or just kills anything it fractures.

Head fracture cuts ALL damage in HALF and blinds. Its very useful when the fracture dinos is running away, but a death sentence in a fight
Body fracture makes all stam costs 3x as large. In a chase, it puts the attacker on a definite timer, but many times that timer is still enough to kill. Meanwhile in a fight, it allows the fracture dino to much more easily burn the fractured one's stam and maul it.
Leg fracture reduces speed significantly, disables all mobility abilities, and disables most attacks. If the fracture dino runs away, instant free win, this one is incredibly useful for that but is also the hardest to get since the target is likely facing towards the fracture dino in a chase. In a fight... death, immediate (or slow and painful) death. You can't fight back and you can't run.

[slim dragon]

Well
I can't think of a debuff that allows the fracturer to get away without also being a death sentence in a fight

[hasty coyote]

Fractures can be changes in a LOT of ways and work better, but heres the direction I believe they need to go:
Head fracture needs its effects to scale based on movement alone. If you are standing still, the affects should not be too dramatic but def noticeable. If you are sprinting to run something down, they should be MUCH worse.
Body fracture needs a lighter immediate effect (like increased turn radius), but also not have as high of a multiplier on stationary attacks.
Leg fracture needs to not disable alt attacks at the very least, preferably not disable any stationary attacks. Potentially the speed decrease could also be nerfed slightly.
Also preferably have getting a fracture applied inflict a stun as a global mechanic.

Essentially they need to be changed so standing your ground is still a viable option, but chasing is where the real problems begin. They can still hinder standing your ground so they are useful for stuff like anky, but not outright make it useless like currently.

[tight snow]

Yo bro, dont text me a book

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/wall-donald-trump-drumpf-build-a-wall-build-gif-5702065

[tight snow]

Lol

[iron tree]

@pure tiger we don't need more combat mutations

[whole bison]

Is Pachy stamina better than Dilos if running to exhaustion from full stam?

[steep gazelle]

yes

[steep gazelle]

but the speed of the dillo makes this almost imperceptible

[whole bison]

Yea cause i got chased last night (at night time) by a pachy as dilo. Despite nocturnal buff it actually caught up with me and had more stam by a little bit enough for 3 rams until it exhausted i couldnt believei t

[steep gazelle]

be chased by a pachy? I've never seen this and I don't want to

[whole bison]

nah it was terrifying i never want this to happen to me again, i nearly smashed my second monitor in half

the guy sniffed my footprints.. I was full night in jungle and it found me in bush I choked and fell off my chair

[steep gazelle]

Seeing a big head chasing you just to headbutt you and leave you all crooked, that's scary

[whole bison]

See that running around on two hind legs with his head going for you .. i actually couldn't play .. I couldn't bite it so just had to dodge and so he kept rearing like that and was invulnerable

he eventually miss 3 headbutts in jungle cause nice tree and we just went head to head, he was headbutting me and i was biting his head I died but don't even think i traded lol. I never wanna see one of them things again RIP

[edgy crow]

@deep citrus HELP ME #balance-feedback message

[deep citrus]

nah you're cooked 😭

37-7 💔

[edgy crow]

😭

it'd be so cool tho

[deep citrus]

it would but people arent ready for that yet 🥀

[eager saddle]

there is no reason for that small change tho. They are glassy And the compensation sucks, it's already pretty fast at growing

Herra having that much less health is because they shouldn't be getting hit in the first place, since they are constantly in trees

[iron tree]

^

[hasty coyote]

The issue is you're just asking for a nerf on a dino whose balance is already shakey at best, without actually addressing any of the main balance issues.
Omnis' main concern is that pounce is downright op, BUT it can be nullified easily. So omni players think its weak because people sit by a tree and are nearly invincible, but if the target doesnt sit next to a tree, it just dies.

Even without the above, giving a massive nerf like that just because "its weird" is not going over well, especially when you compensate it with the joke of reducing its growth time, if omnis growth time gets any lower its going to have pretty much the same grow time as a troodon lmao.

[iron tree]

I mean it is true that pachy vs omni is in the favour of the omni and pachy literally has to be lucky to survive

but that can be fixed by buffing pachy

Imo giving it more health and stun on fracture should be enough

[hasty coyote]

thats partially a pachy being awful problem, and partially omni being allowed to deal WAY too much on a single pounce. A single pounce deals 2/3rds of pachys hp, and then the omni can either face tank or dodge a single ram and kill it. The 2 free seconds of pounce are already enough to drop pachy's hp by like 1/3rd, add on the rng and you could feasibly die to a single pounce because RNGesus decided you must die.

[iron tree]

2 pounces will kill the pachy

Also, why is dilo larger than pachy

Dilo looks like a stick next to pachy

[hasty coyote]

but thats just pachy, then you include stuff like carno who can bleed out from 2 pounces due to still having the increased bleed multipliers and much lower hp, or dilo dealing the same issue as pachy where it loses half its hp from a pounce, or stegos and diablo literally MELTING stam with their original attacks, pounce drain, AND bucking drain.

[iron tree]

Indeed

[hasty coyote]

buck now throwing the omni off is a great change on paper, the execution though needs work, rng based combat is just awful for everyone.

[iron tree]

Pounce was way better before the rework

[hasty coyote]

it was better for the person getting pounced, not the omni

[iron tree]

The omni had bleed and damage

Wait

[hasty coyote]

then the rework hit and it make omnis even weaker since they would drop right on top at a complete random interval. Now they get both 2 seconds for free and a forced dismount rather than just a drop.

[iron tree]

Does the damage pounce do more damage than bite?

[hasty coyote]

from what I heard, it deals roughly 1000 damage on a full bar of stam, so ROUGHLY 100 dps

so yeah, MUCH more dps than bites

which is partially caused by omnis bite being abnormally slow

[iron tree]

Imo every hit should do as much its bite

[hasty coyote]

the animation has roughtly 1 bite per second, so that would roughly half the damage. Which seems a little harsh to me. I would MUCH rather we just make the time to throw an omni off dependent on the dino. So like pachy can throw off an omni in like 2 seconds, while a stego may take like 5. So for bigger things, its pounce can deal a decent chunk of its hp, while not making omni 1-shot small tiers.

[iron tree]

Yeah

And buff pachy's weight to 650kg

[iron tree]

@wraith fiber erm akshully it's not a ripoff

It's what we thought deinonychus looked like

Back in the 90s

[stark knoll]

@wraith fiber Utahraptor will be a separate playable

[wraith fiber]

Ya thats what I mean

[wraith fiber]

Evirma is a relatively new game, we can picture accurate velociraptors and utahraptors that could've been used as the model. Being seperate playables would be amazing, and the omni is cool but the other two would be amazing

[stark knoll]

That's already planned

Though velo will probably be ai

[eager saddle]

this is probably the best explanation of the situation I've ever heard ngl

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message that's not a slight nerf, that's ruining it

[mint star]

straight up ruining herrerasarus

[edgy crow]

insane

[worthy steeple]

where did all “nerf herrera” suggestions came from lol

[edgy crow]

me

[steep gazelle]

I honestly don't know what the devs were thinking when they made the cerato: A dino with high damage in the secondary attack at no cost, can reduce the victim's status with vomit, has resistance to fracture and bleeding, and when close to a carcass it can reduce physical damage and bleed. MY GOD

His stats are too high for 1 single disadvantage which is his speed

If only the charged bite had a cooldown like the old carno skill. Players complain about the current carnotaurus spamming charge, but say nothing about the cerato spamming charge bite No stam cost xd

What should be a butcher is the best hunter on the island

[worthy steeple]

look at the current herbivores tho, look how giant and strong they are, the game needs something this unhinged to fight them.

if cera weren’t as strong as it is right now we would have servers full herbivores that are almost untouchable because of how big and strong they are compared to carnivores.

cera basically does what allo or sub rex should do, it’s absolutely not a scavenger/body bully or anything, it’s an apex predator

i bet they will rework cera once allo and rex are in the game

[worthy steeple]

it has a cooldown, short one, but it’s awful, i would rather want charge to last as long as cera wants but in exchange it would slow cera down little bit

[edgy crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1342793629852237824/the_days_of_laughter_and_love_are_back.gif

[steep gazelle]

I understand his role, but having his damage reduced from 350 to 300, putting a stam cost on the charge bite or a cooldown would not affect him at all.

Not to mention that this would also allow carnivores to fight against the likes of Carno and Dillo in a fight that is not as unequal as it is currently.

[worthy steeple]

tbh just reducing the speed while charging the bite is more than enough

i dont mind stam cost for attacks too, but its not something i care about too much

slow it down, give it ability to charge alt attack, make it so puke doesn’t animation lock you and cera is fine

[dusky surge]

@sweet agate wouldnt nerfing the speed around corpses discourage cera even more from being near them and doing its niche

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message @stable crescent i wouldn’t say its unrealistic because 175KG falling at terminal velocities would kill anything, herrera takes 10 minutes less to grow than the 500KG pachy and if it can’t even hunt the smaller dinos, how is it supposed to properly hunt

[sweet agate]

It has the high potential to snowball with 1, its vomit 2, charged bite that requires NO STAMINA and 3, it gets defence around corpses.

No other dino gets that heavy buffs without some sort of tell, the devs removed the chuffing so now a player doesn't even know when a cera is gonna take less damage. Gameplay wise, its just poor design as nothing is telegraphed. Dibbles heads down? Yeah better not bite that its guarding. Pachy is up like a kangaroo - oh hes gonna slam. Cera has bile loaded? Defence? no tell.

Making it slower would make it actually play the role it was meant to. Hell lm down to even make it tankier by lowering speed.

[slim dragon]

Making cera slower when around a corpse is not a tell, it's a heavy nerf
Speed is like the most important stat in this game

[dusky surge]

it would discourage cera even more from doing its intended niche

just hunt because you don't get nerfed in the game's most vital stat

[severe grail]

people talk about having spammable charge bite all the time.

[sweet agate]

But the identity of the cera is that it hogs corpses off others, why does it need to be fast? The game is so much faster than legacy. With more dinosaurs coming - its gonna brawl with an allo? It has So many things it can do. Pick the mutation of eating recovers hp, eat til you vomit, eat again. Its crazy how tuned it is already.

Cera players will move on once there are bigger dinosaurs, by giving it an identity now besides "biggest carnivore" we can get players who want to play it beyond its also needing a look vomit stunning others.

[slim dragon]

It needs to not be debuffed when around corpses

[edgy crow]

regardless of whether it needs to be fast or not, the way to make it use its corpse buff is to NOT debuff it

[slim dragon]

Everything needs to be fast to an extent

[sweet agate]

exchanging defence for speed isnt a nerf. If youre gonna brawl other carnivores bigger or same size as you, you need advantage against anything coming at you. Not you going after it.

[slim dragon]

If you debuff it in the most important stat in the game when it's around a corpse, then ceras will stop hanging around corpses

[slim dragon]

It absolutely is

Or you can see it the other way around
Cera gets a speed buff when it's NOT around a corpse
Sounds absolutely nonsensical, right ?

[sweet agate]

the Cera wouldnt NEED to move. Im talking making it tanky af and get defensive. Its right now played as the apex of the isle which will change soon. What then? how will it be a scavanger more than any other carnivore? Remove the corpse defense then.

[slim dragon]

Do you even understand what cera is meant to do ?
I just can't grasp how you think it would be a good change, or meaningful or anything

Cera needs to be around corpses

Debuff cera when it's near a corpse
???
Where's the logic ?

There's plenty of ways to nerf cera, and you chose the most nonsensical one

Also it doesn't serve as a nerf to its hunting ability at all

[sweet agate]

l want its identity fleshed out. A corpse guarder should do exactly that - not high speed chase everything

[slim dragon]

Try to run away from a cera because it's slowed by the nearby corpse ? Well cera chases you and loses the speed debuff because it gets away from the corpse

[slim dragon]

Then just nerf its speed... overall ? Because if you only nerf it when around a corpse it serves absolutely 0 purpose

[sweet agate]

Why do you read everything as Nerf and Buff? I am talking gameplay and tuning in comparassion to other dinos. A pachy will fracture itself if it headbutts something heavier than it.

[slim dragon]

No, and well, I don't see how a speed nerf is not a nerf

[sweet agate]

did you ignore the defense thing?

[slim dragon]

What about the defense thing ?

[sweet agate]

"cera needs tweaking in it's identity of a scavanger - if it gets defence around corpses it should also be slower around them. Why would it want to be fast around something it's guarding? dibble isnt fast when it is in defence stance.

Gives ceras and the prey a choice, do they want to keep fighting?"

^ wrote that in feedback

[slim dragon]

But that's absolutely not what it achieves ?
The defense buff is already there, the speed debuff provides absolutely nothing other than nerfing cera in the situation where it's supposed to excel

[sweet agate]

It so far has no downside in whatever it decides to do. If your herd has to fight cera and one goes down - its not so easy as to tell everyone to run, meanwhile they're all buffed now from a dead body.

[slim dragon]

It doesn't nerf its hunting potential
It doesn't make it better at guarding corpses
So 0 value

[sweet agate]

What situation? killing everything with a free defense buff?

[slim dragon]

Ok, but find a better downside than turning its corpse buff into a corpse debuff

[sweet agate]

You really don't see an issue with the cera right now?

[slim dragon]

Well YES
That's literally what the corpse buff is for
Being stronger around corpses
That's what cera is literally meant to do

[slim dragon]

I do
But the nerf you suggest is the most nonsensical way to nerf it

The only thing it does is make it worse at what it's meant to do and not make it worse at what it is NOT meant to do

[sweet agate]

Yes! you get it. its stronger around corpses. Now gameplay wise. why should a player with a defense buff be granted no downsides? as l mentioned, other animals do. Dibble gets cd on aggro, cant attack with defense stance, steggo only gets so many swipes, pachy can hurt itself and is limited in how it can headbutt. they all have downsides.

Cera?

• can eat uneatable food
• can abuse eating to regain hp mutant
• can hold a charged bite with no stam cost
• can get a defense buff for free with no chuffing, so the other dino has no idea what state cera is in
• stun locking vomit sicknes
• with a mutation - faster than a pachy.

Why. It's a scavanger. Let it scavange without putting everyone at risk. It'd give herbivores some peace letting them clean up kills made in a herd. "Oh its slow, dont go near it."

Im down to even make it tanky to put a fight to bigger dinos in this state, just dont let it get defence for free or remove it.

[slim dragon]

Literally find a downside on anything else than the buff

I don't even know what to say
It's a buff
It's not supposed to have a downside
Because it's a buff
That's the point of a buff
To not have a downside

Also as I already said, the speed debuff is completely useless against its issue of being too good at hunting
Because cera becomes FASTER when it begins to chase you, because it's not near a body anymore

[sweet agate]

But you would have to be making that choice to pick that fight. I am defining a defensive carnivore here, it shouldnt be hunting for the msot part. When other carnivores come out you're not going to see anyone playing it over an allo.

as it loses everything besides the vomit. Which my god needs to not stun and kill a dino with starvation.

[rapid flume]

has cerato always lost diet when it vomits?

[keen plover]

yea

[rapid flume]

thanks

[rapid flume]

the evrima quick guide says it doesn't

this is really confusing

[elfin night]

Deino suffers from a lot more than that. It just can’t eat anything but fish and other crocs reliably

@sweet agate even with doubled hp, you are making cera effectively worse at its job if you slow it down, since it lowers its potential to suddenly rush at things that do not watch their positioning. Also it is a necessity to disengage, and if things turn ugly you are just handicapping it for a few seconds for doing what it is meant to do

Speed is super important

You need it to run things down, to flee, dodge attacks and reposition

And that only the movement speed

You also got stuff such as turning speed, attack speed…they’re all more important than anything else

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message real

[elfin night]

That doesn’t address the issues deino has 😭

Other than maybe diminishing hunger problems

[crimson crater]

better than nothing

[elfin night]

You see

How is that any useful? You’re either gonna make something that is natural efficient digestion, encourage afk play or do something that can be emulated by logging out and coming back when there’s more food

The main problems with deino are the horrid growth due to its balancing and map, and the fact that the map is really bad for deino even though it is still better than spiro

Deino in theory has more than enough food even without counting fish, but:
-Croc has absolutely terrible spawns (other than maybe water access), one of which is literally inescapable and you are locked forever in a small lake.
-most waterways are disconnected and required long travels to get where the non gator food actually is, as well as salt water mutation
-there’s absolutely nothing you can do if a bigger crocs sees you as they outpace you in any movement option and obviously outmatch you by a long shot especially considering you spend three quarters of your growth being rather small.
-Except for water access and highlands lake, most places are just small ponds or narrow, long hallways where you have nowhere to hide, making long travels an actual gamble to avoid larger crocodiles unless you exclusively travel at night and sticking to the bottom constantly

Giving them slower food drain (and presumably same nutrient decay) would just turn a third of the growth into afk camping or simply address none of the listed above

[viscid mica]

I agree with both sides I can understand why they want it but same time I get why it would be mad annoying change

So @open quarry just to be clear Head shot body shot or tail hit?

[open quarry]

body i think

[viscid mica]

How close to your head was it?

[open quarry]

I am not sure maybe between the neck and body

[viscid mica]

So there is a good chance you got HS which would apply 1.5x damage and if we are going off stego power as a FG and cut it in half to meet the half way mark exactly that would be a minimum of 1000 ish damage base without HS

And there is a good chance the stew as closer to 70ish percent

Which means it could easily deal 1300 damage with a sprinting tail swing aka its strongest attack

[viscid mica]

All in all it sounds like ya got picked a fight with a DPS monster and suffered the consequences which sucks but eh walking eveningstar for a tail

[open quarry]

yeah maybe

or it was just a hacker 🙂

[iron tree]

💀

[viscid mica]

Stego is one of the strongest damage wise if you let it hit you so prolly not

If you had a clip would be better

Cera is very light weight

To be fighting stego

[slim dragon]

Hackers mostly play cera

[iron tree]

you fight an apex herbivore, complain in #balance-feedback because you thought you could take it on and overestimated yourself and proceed to call them a hacker? 😭

[slim dragon]

I don't see why a damage hacker would go for stego tbh
A speed hacker ? Yeah

[iron tree]

damage hackers usually play juvis

[open quarry]

I didnt even try to fight it I was hidden in a bush when that thing came sprinting out of nowhere

[elfin night]

You got ambushed by a steg?

[iron tree]

lmao

[elfin night]

Brutal, although still doable since I consistently ambush ceras and carnos in the jungle as fg dibble and stego

You just need bushes and slow walk. Rain helps a lot too

[iron tree]

true

[open quarry]

i was watching 2 other stegos

i didnt realise there was a third one

[elfin night]

You were unaware and got ambushed. You can learn from that

[elfin night]

Anyway, I think it is totally fair for a 2-4 ton stego to be able to one shot an adult cera. They are more noisy, they’ve spent a longer time growing, are much slower, have less stamina, turn slower and their actually good attacks waste stamina

Being very good in defense is the only thing they have in their favor

Plus cera is not really that large for isle standards. If anything is is in the smaller half of the roster

A half grown stego (3 tons) is still 1.7 tons larger. That’s a huge deal

[open quarry]

yeah but in my opinion and with him beeing the defensive animal that he is, he should at least not be able to sprint while charging up a one shot attack

[elfin night]

That attack wastes like 30% of a stego’s stamina

And that thing is like 28 kph when subdadult. No one’s getting caught by that lol

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102619485334143006/1298758334110761102/Dilo_bowling_A_Clipchamppel_keszult.mp4?ex=67bc3a34&is=67bae8b4&hm=0ee71386c6556334d99bff2994da345b2a1e45bfbf4cdcdd53e138dcbcecd62e& Except this guy apparently😄

[open quarry]

bruh he flipped

[elfin night]

Unless it is a land deino or someone completely unaware/clueless, no one’s gonna stand in front of a stego running at you with its tail raised

[elfin night]

What a smart and competent player

[cosmic pelican]

Real

[elfin night]

But back to the point

Stego is meant to be basically an apex. A creature that not even lone allos shouldn’t mess with

It is leagues above cera

So it is to be expected that even a subadult is scary

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message ehhh i love feedbacks like this

[crimson crater]

i see his point but it shouldn’t be nerfed to that degree. sub stego is arguably more dangerous than an adult one simply because of its speed and stamina, wouldn’t mind the dmg and bleed to be toned down a bit during the growth stages

[elfin night]

Boooo

[crimson crater]

?

[elfin night]

Stego supremacy

[worthy steeple]

Stego supremacy

[tight snow]

@elfin night lets see, why do u think i,m wrong

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message you're right, just going about it wrong

[tight snow]

On what am i wrong

[edgy crow]

Omni is op, but giving it a debuff for packing up when it is a big game pack hunter is just not right

[elfin night]

1. giving them a debuff when they are together is laughably wrong. Their whole point and gimmick is about being pack hunters

2. You were unaware and got caught by 3 omnis when dilo is faster than them and let two of them grapple you.

3. you got a whole jungle to be in

I do think omni doesn't need a buff

I THINK OMNI IS CRINGE IN FACT

but the debuff thing is so bad as a suggestions and the grapple was largely on you

[edgy crow]

Omni needs a nerf to its health and damage pounce, not for packing up, which is what it's supposed to do

[elfin night]

2 omni grapple aint hard but it takes some time unless the target is static and you can hostage, run away or use terrain

[tight snow]

1. They,re a pack hunter but too op, it just need to be little bit more balanced

2. I was 60% grow so i wasnt faster than them, and they,re hitbox sucks as bad, as they got me 5 metres away, so i couldnt scape from their pounce

3. I died by bleed 10 seconds after i sturted running, and i was going to the jungle to scape, but the bleed is as much crazy, than i couldnt reach jungle

[elfin night]

60% dilo is faster than fg what are you on

[elfin night]

and yeah you fled too late. You could've been far more observant and avoided that situation in the first place

[steep gazelle]

Omni op? Serious?

[tight snow]

Nah its not, i lived it and i can surely say u that they were faster than my 60% dilo

[edgy crow]

It is

[tight snow]

No, but they in packs yes, one alone isnt op, thats why i suggest a debuff

[steep gazelle]

Omni fulfills its purpose, being weak alone, but strong in 8 individuals of 450kg

[elfin night]

and how are they too op because you got grappled? No, instead, why are they and why should their literal gimmick and part of their niche be actively punished with a debuff to their groups? That is idiotic

[elfin night]

my ass weak alone

[edgy crow]

Reword it like this... with your change, solo Omni is buffed. Weird, right?

[edgy crow]

Damage pounce doing 1000 damage moment

[tight snow]

No cuz it would just make it better, instead of be op in groups, it would alone, no change

[tight snow]

What

[elfin night]

I agree with Homunc to some extent as in you went about it wrong

[tight snow]

💀

[elfin night]

wouldn't say totally overpowered especially in the grand scheme of things, but some adjustments wouldn't hurt

[tight snow]

U just said omni is a pack hunter, that would make the otherwise, thats more ilogic than how u say is my suggest

[elfin night]

it's like saying that you should nerf stego's tail swings because they're too op and damaging

That's the POINT

[tight snow]

But stegos arent pack hunter, is not the same

[elfin night]

READ THE ANALOGY

[tight snow]

Uh

[elfin night]

omni is a pack hunter and with part of its ability meant for team play, you suggest nerfing them when they are in groups

Stego relies on its tail and nothing else to defend itself and thrive, in the analogy I propose nerfing it

the whole point of the analogy is to show that it is dumb to go after the thing that a creature is meant to excel at

[edgy crow]

Nerf the things that make the Dino more oppressive at what it's not meant to be doing (pin)

[elfin night]

^

yes, not removing it like you said a while ago

[tight snow]

But stego is just string to defend itself, i actually didnt see any stego killing a carno for fun, or a stego killing a deino bcs he wanted to, and i used to play the isle while the start of evrima,s beta

[elfin night]

but that needs work and is far more oppressive and unwarranted

[elfin night]

what does that have to do with anything? Stego is just good at defending itself and it can and always could easily kill deinos and carnos if they attacked it because that it is what it is meant to do

Omnis are meant to be very dangerous in packs especially after the grapple update, and effectively they slammed your fresh adult dilo in a group of three which isn't surprising at all

they are meant to do that

[iron tree]

Omni's damage pounce is too strong yeah

But a dilo is and should be outmatched against 3 omnis. You could've ran though

Dilo is faster than omni

[tight snow]

Ok, but the difference is that anyone cares of stego,s strenth bcs it an only defend itself, but if omnis packs are not well balanced, they need to do smthng even if they,re made to be in packs, bcs stego,s strenth doesnt affects anyone, an umbalanced xreature affects to who got killed by them, so is not the same

[tight snow]

BUT I WAS 60% GROW AND WASNT FASTER, I TRIED TO RUN, I SAID IT DANG

[tight snow]

Dont tell me, genius

[elfin night]

you either started running too late, they were sub omnis like you, or you should have been more avoidant and careful as a 60% dilo

[iron tree]

60% dilo is faster than a fully grown dilo

They must've been sub omnis

[elfin night]

everyone cares about stego strength. A stego whose player has a functional brain is very much unstoppable, you may as well throw 10 ceras at it that it will still kill all of them. Stegos are a problem in the current meta because nothing can match them and your confirmation bias is laughably wrong.

And then, why are all of sudden omni packs too strong and unbalanced? because they killed one damn fresh adult dilo?

Have the self awareness to see the blatant gamer rage here 😭

[tight snow]

1. Started running when i saw them at the other side of the lake in highlands

2. Pounce,s hitbox are trush and i got pounced 5 metres away from me, so i couldnt scape

[tight snow]

Still i couldnt do nothing againts 3

[iron tree]

Isn't that the point of a pack hunter?

[elfin night]

there is NO WAY they could catch up to you if they were at the other side of HL

They would burn so much of their stam and you could hide anywhere. Getting caught there is 100% on you unless they were cheaters

[iron tree]

Outnumbering their prey?

[tight snow]

Litterally everyone can run away stego essily, if someone die by a stego, is bcs he,s extremely bad at the game

[elfin night]

hiding, tree camping, water camping, facing them, holding one as hostage, ambushing them before they can pinpoint your exact locayion

[tight snow]

Then they would be hacking, but they got me at the other side of that lake bro, no lie

[tight snow]

They catch me in 5 secs, couldnt hide

[elfin night]

yes, you can run from stegos. But there is nothing you can do about them camping bodies, suddenly going berserk in a herd when they were previously friendly (not even retaliating unless it's two dibbles vs one steg) or claiming points of interest

[elfin night]

then they weren't at the other side of HL and it was on you to be spotted

or as I said, cheaters which by then it doesn't make this conversation any useful

[tight snow]

I face one and got him in the face, so fogged him, but the other two pounced me 5 metrws away

[tight snow]

They were bro

[elfin night]

so cheaters that you would have otherwise escaped

non issue

that is not a scenario you should consider

[tight snow]

But i cant affirm if they were hackers, didnt see them coming, and when they were close to me, they seems normal, but still they catch me in 5 secs from the other side of the lake of highlands

[elfin night]

if they were literally at the other side of the lake when you started running, there is no way they could've caught up to you ever

so likely hackers

[tight snow]

Prob

[elfin night]

not something to base yourself on when talking about balancing because they could've also had speed hacks

[tight snow]

I didnt played omni after the map change, so idk how fast are them

[elfin night]

60% dilo is like 50kph, they would need to run for a while longer than you to catch you even if they were 50kph and you 47

[iron tree]

How*

[elfin night]

[tight snow]

But if i didnt know, is logic that i thought omni was just unbalanced

[iron tree]

Please correct yourself

[elfin night]

lmao

[tight snow]

?

[elfin night]

50kph at their peak without mutations. No way legit omnis would've caught you, so as I've said half a dozen times in a short span of time, don't use this as any example

now you know

[edgy crow]

[iron tree]

You misspelled the word "how" and well...the misspelled "how" is a not so nice word

[tight snow]

💀

[tight snow]

Happy @iron tree ?

[elfin night]

yes

we all are happy now

[tight snow]

Lol

[elfin night]

now git gud

[tight snow]

I,m not gonna discuss about anything until i know its not a bug or hacks, i just discussed twice, and one was a bug, and the other one was hackers, now i,m afraid

[iron tree]

Mhm

[tight snow]

This is ilogic

[elfin night]

just double check before posting anything in the real channel

[iron tree]

Solution: nerf carno

[tight snow]

Ya, i,ll take care

[tropic falcon]

Carno has already been nerfed enough

[tight snow]

100%

[iron tree]

No