balance-feedback-discussion

[worthy steeple]

which is just 25% weight increase

[viscid mica]

Ya gl with that grind to elder

[worthy steeple]

AHAHAH yeahh

i hope it will be really hard to become an elder

[viscid mica]

Better be

If prime elder is easy balancing will take a whole new meaning

If only prime elder pachy was here now

[worthy steeple]

i don’t like the current diet system for being too easy to get the buffs and sustain the perfect diet.

also i don’t like the buffs, someone suggested playable exclusive buffs like galli speed buff and i kinda like that idea.

but ofc it shouldn’t change the base stats of other dinos, speed for galli or carno is one thing but speed buff for cera is not the same.

i want the buffs that will change something insignificant, that doesn’t matter much in pvp.

[worthy steeple]

i also want prime elder to not just be temporary buff, i want the game to reward a player for sustaining its “prime elder” stage somehow, no idea how exactly, but i think it should be possible

(as far as i know it will be possible)

like for example sustaining the perfect diet will keep you in prime elder stage

(it’s just an example, ofc i want it to be harder to sustain)

[viscid mica]

I mean it does give buffs to your next grow

[worthy steeple]

is that confirmed?

[viscid mica]

Think so would have to go way back and check who said it

[worthy steeple]

ah no need to, ty

[crimson crater]

better than to slow it down

[worthy steeple]

slowing it down is fair and actually better than locking it in animation

38 km/h should be fair

makes it less offensive

[crimson crater]

so making it vulnerable while its not doing anything?

[worthy steeple]

no? only when it’s charging the bite

if you want to keep the speed just don’t charge

[crimson crater]

yea that’s like punishing a stego for having its tail up

[worthy steeple]

no? what

how’s that worse than than locking it in animation

[crimson crater]

so basically you’re cutting its dmg output by half in every fight. just don’t charge isn’t a valid argument to make it bad

like damn, why are people obsessed with making cera feel sluggish and clunky

[cosmic pelican]

Tbf the lunge forward on charged bite made it easier to hit small and nible things like omnies

Since you gained forward momentum after letting go

[crimson crater]

ye, didn’t feel clunky to me

[worthy steeple]

no?

wdym “cutting it’s damage output”?

making it less offensive

[crimson crater]

if you aren’t using the charged bite the dmg output is half that

[worthy steeple]

why? you can still use it, you just won’t be as fast with it

[crimson crater]

it will be pretty useless since you won’t be fast enough to dodge and forced to trade

[worthy steeple]

charge bite is dealing too much damage + bacteria, it should have a drawback.

animation lock is lame, i dont like that at all, cera will get punished for every missed attack

[worthy steeple]

don’t charge if you want to dodge, charge when you want to attack

[crimson crater]

what.. you’re gonna need to dodge everytime while attacking simultaneously which u can’t do

[worthy steeple]

there was another discussion when you actually wanted the charge bite to slow cera down, like you change your mind all the time

[crimson crater]

yes but not to dibble level speed lmao

[worthy steeple]

dibble is 36 tho

[crimson crater]

this guy

allo level speed then

[worthy steeple]

wdym “this guy”? i’m not the one changing my mind every day

[crimson crater]

you choose to interpret things the way you want and not how they are

there’s a difference nerfing ceras speed by 2kmh and reducing it by 0.5

[worthy steeple]

not really, it’s you just changing your mind depending on discussion you’re having at the time.

like sometimes cera is op for you, sometimes it’s weak, sometimes it’s balanced, sometimes it’s overtuned. at some point you just need to stick with something

[crimson crater]

if we make cera less offensive the same should be done for teno no? why can it kick while sprinting lock that into a trot

[edgy crow]

Cera's charge bite should do something like 250 damage. 350 is absurd.

[worthy steeple]

teno is not offensive tho? the attacks are still behind

[crimson crater]

huh

[worthy steeple]

teno*

[crimson crater]

doing as much as a teno is crazy

[crimson crater]

kinda true but no, teno is bad at playing it offensively with things faster than it.
2 tenos can cook a dibble

[worthy steeple]

cera does more damage than teno while being offensive and that’s lame.

charge bite doesn’t have any drawbacks.

you’re actually the one suggesting the worst thing possible which is animation lock, even i think it’s too much. just reduced speed is fine

[edgy crow]

it would make it more balanced tho

[crimson crater]

not really

[crimson crater]

teno has way better dps and can hit things twice in the time it takes for a cera to fully charge its bite.
anyways why not nerf tenos offensive capabilities lol

[edgy crow]

Cera easily achieves what should be Allo-level damage output with no reprecussions, no stam cost, no wait at all

[worthy steeple]

because it’s not an isssue

[worthy steeple]

basically, yeah

[crimson crater]

teno does on average 625dmg with no major drawbacks

[worthy steeple]

cera does what allo should do

[crimson crater]

yea it isn’t an issue for you the teno main LOL

[edgy crow]

stamina is one

teno has to exert stamina to attack things... crazy concept

[worthy steeple]

stam cost, cooldown on an attack, animation lock with the tail slam.

and 625 is the whole combo.

cera does about the same with just one charge bite

[crimson crater]

2% is nothing, it can miss over 25 times and still have enough which is insane

[edgy crow]

no its not

[worthy steeple]

it’s how it should be.

cera can charge bite million times and it doesn’t care

[crimson crater]

what does the tailslam have to do with anything? and the charged bite also has a cool-down

[worthy steeple]

teno and cera have about the same stamina, but teno is the one using the stamina for the attacks and you want to nerf that?

[edgy crow]

Hold up I'm gonna add fuel to the fire and make a #balance-feedback rn about cera

[crimson crater]

yes because they can afford to miss multiple times, cera also needs a nerf but don’t slow it down

[worthy steeple]

if we talk about “it can do many mistakes without punishment” which is arguably not true if we talk about the teno, you should first of all think about the cera that is arguably a lot more op

[worthy steeple]

so if they can afford to miss that suddenly makes them “op”? lol

everything should afford to miss, even the stego.

[edgy crow]

50% bleed resist
double HP on corpses
instant 350 damage attack with NO STAMINA COST

[crimson crater]

once again, how does one playable justify the state of another

[crimson crater]

takes time to charge up*

[worthy steeple]

i mean, you’re the one who started talking about the teno when we were talking about the cera.

teno is not op, it’s not the one being 70% of all the dinos on the server, tenos are not oppressive, they’re not as annoying as ceras and they didnt get even half of the buffs cera has

[crimson crater]

that makes them slightly overtuned.
they can be extremely reckless and make multiple errors yet will still have enough. stego can only swing a couple of times LOL fym it can afford to miss

[worthy steeple]

with the rex/allo being added soon to the game last thing teno needs is more nerfs when it already got few

[crimson crater]

not a good reasoning

[edgy crow]

Cera can also be extremely reckless with its charge bite because there is NO STAMINA COST

[crimson crater]

you want it to take stamina? how much

[slim dragon]

Why is teno, a 1.6 ton excellent brawler, compared to cera, a 1.3 ton scavenger ?
They don't have the same niche
Cera is supposed to be able to stand its ground against large opponents, but it doesn't actually need killing power

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message thoughts?

[worthy steeple]

name me any other dino same size fighting something it should fight that cannot afford to make errors?

you know there’s a reason people used to hate old carno charge, it was awful and was taking too much stamina. everyone should be able to make mistakes.

[crimson crater]

overkill, too many drawbacks lol

[slim dragon]

Ideally cera would never fight because potential contenders would just see it and go "ew, a cera. Gross" and go away

[crimson crater]

carnos stam took like its whole stambar after charging for one second.
omni and pachy take way more for their attacks yet no one complains about them in that department

[worthy steeple]

hm, i would want it to get the damage nerf outside the body but have its damage when it’s affected by the body buff

[edgy crow]

That would be really fun, agreed

[slim dragon]

The most important change cera needs in my opinion, is to change the way bile works so it's less effective as a hunting tool but more effective as a deterrent

[crimson crater]

cera isn’t designed to be glued to bodies and a walking punching bag without them

[worthy steeple]

yes, i don’t like bacteria being offensive tool, its too strong for cera to be able to use it in offense

[edgy crow]

how would these make it a walking punching bag tho?

[worthy steeple]

taking away your stamina/hunger/water/diets for just biting you is too much. cera should only be able to use that when it wants to defend itself

it’s like sying “don’t touch me or else”

[edgy crow]

do you agree with halving the bacteria output of cera?

[worthy steeple]

i wouldn’t mind bacteria to get buffed if it was purely defensive tool

[crimson crater]

because most of its matchups are already a 50/50 with carno and teno.
nerfing its dmg output and having it take way more to charge up would enable carnos to stall it out and then do a charge + bite combo which deals roughly 250dmg, and it will in no way be able to defend itself against a teno lol

[worthy steeple]

hm. what i really want is:

-buff bacteria

-make it so it can only apply bacteria with the charge bite

-make the charge slow cera down to around 38.5

i hate discord

[edgy crow]

is it bad I wouldn't mind cera being faster than teno if it was nerfed?

[crimson crater]

yes

[edgy crow]

I'm going to add these changes to my feedback

[slim dragon]

I suggested meshing the bile mechanic with the (potentially) incoming disease system, and replacing vomiting with spreading actual sickness

[worthy steeple]

cera faster than teno could be disastrous, teno being faster is the only thing that saves it from the cera hordes

screaming

[crimson crater]

funny you say this because i could swear you told me the other day that ceras and tenos are the same speed

[edgy crow]

ehhhhhhh fair

although will cera hordes really be a problem with nerfs + the release of rex and allo?

[worthy steeple]

they are, 0.25% speed difference is nothing, but it doesn’t let them outrun you.

but doesn’t let you run away either

[edgy crow]

god this hurts to watch

[worthy steeple]

to if you want to run you should not use your attacks or vomit even once, or you won’t have enough stamina to run

[crimson crater]

exactly what my point was, but you kept acting like tenos couldn’t run away from them

[crimson crater]

false

[worthy steeple]

dw, i killed them all and then came back to kill the rest of the overpack and their juvies

[edgy crow]

based

[worthy steeple]

yes, if it uses the attacks it won’t.

btw if your issue with tenos running after ceras stays. just make it vomit once, bait few attacks and then run away. 100% you will outrun it. alternatively cross the river or a lake, you got plenty of time to find one, cross it and don’t let the teno cross, if it gets in the water just keep biting it you will deal a lot of damage and maybe even kill it.

[crimson crater]

tenos are faster swimmers and can jump to get ahead start

[worthy steeple]

or just find some bushes to hide in, it actually works

[crimson crater]

the cera hate bias is crazy

[worthy steeple]

nah, won’t work at all, if it chases you it will be behind you. and if it jumps it will lose 7% stamina instantly

basically anything it does takes stamina, so you will be able to run away anyway

[crimson crater]

np, find a rock they are everywhere

[slim dragon]

actually, isn't fighting tenos in the water a really good idea for cera ?
Teno can only bite while in the water right ? You'd win a facetank against 3 of them

[worthy steeple]

it is lol, you can kill them easily

[crimson crater]

no

[worthy steeple]

ceras dps is insane, fast alt bites, fast regular bites 150-200 damage lol

they will melt if they decide to chase you into the water

[crimson crater]

they can wait you out till you run low on stamina

[worthy steeple]

get to the other side of the river lol

you don’t have to stay, if they decide to swim just go into the water and start biting

[crimson crater]

forgot to mention, if the tenos are competent one will cross over the river and guard that side

[worthy steeple]

you’re saying all that like you’re a newbie, you know what to do in those situations

[edgy crow]

never a bad day when cheesy and flows decided to butt heads

[worthy steeple]

i mean, it’s literally chasing you it can’t cross before you do

[crimson crater]

you are the newbie if you fail to grasp basic things

[worthy steeple]

AHAH

[crimson crater]

yes you can, run along side the river since you’re faster then jump across. the cera won’t be able to catch up

[worthy steeple]

i’m not the one talking about the “tenos bullying poor ceras and changing them down” which is mostly something theoretical and impossible at the same time

[worthy steeple]

jump and lose 7% stamina, which makes it even easier for you to out stam them and run away

there’s no way you can’t survive teno chasing you, it’s like the easiest thing to do. that’s impressive if you die in that situation

[crimson crater]

in this hypothesis the cera is defending itself against 3 tenos by using the water. what you on about?

[edgy crow]

Cera has all the tools to just... not lose stamina. Its main fighting tool DOES NOT use stamina.

[lethal shale]

@edgy crow i agree with all except the last point, seems kinda unnecessary imo

[worthy steeple]

i mean if you got 3 tenos it will never be easy for you, but again, try to hide in the bushes, if that won’t work try to bait attacks, bite them, make them vomit, get into the water and start camping it. there’s so many options

[crimson crater]

baiting for attacks won’t work since teno barely takes any

[edgy crow]

why is the last point unnecessary?

[worthy steeple]

it will work, + vomit

[crimson crater]

people will come up with bs like this and will cry the moment you suggest to increase the stamina on tenos kick by 1.5%

[crimson crater]

n what if the tenos don’t play like you and don’t fall for the most obvious baits

[lethal shale]

being defensive also means needing to utilize normal bites, the dps is way better than charge bite in some cases and is also very useful if you know how to use it, i dont see a reason on why it shouldnt apply bacteria, it already applies less than charged, i think thats enough

[worthy steeple]

1.5% is a lot, you want kick to cost more than the tail slam, thats ridiculous.

let’s first nerf the cera that is arguably more of a problem and id say its the only one that is actually a problem and then we talk about the teno

[crimson crater]

yea and this guy over here wants 5% for ceras charged bite LOL

[edgy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/bass-fish-sad-rogerio-tech-gif-26550915

[edgy crow]

wait how much does tail slam and kick cost? also not a guy 😔

[crimson crater]

2% and 3%

[worthy steeple]

“this guy” can you be not this aggressive? i don’t like that

[edgy crow]

ok so it can be 3% easy

[crimson crater]

the double standards makes my blood boil

[worthy steeple]

i don’t even want a stam cost, i just want it to slow down using one of the strongest attacks in the game

[crimson crater]

so more than tenos strongest attack while being much weaker?

[edgy crow]

Cera is the playable that requires no stamina to use its most powerful attack, which is MORE than a teno COMBO, which takes MORE stamina than this hypothetical change

[crimson crater]

with your suggestion the dmg will be nerfed and it’ll slow the cera down? how will that be stronger than tenos kick

and cera does not deal more than a tenos combo

[edgy crow]

right now it does, cheesy has the math

[worthy steeple]

alright, class, i gtg👹
cya later with YET ANOTHER CERA TALK HELL YEHA

[crimson crater]

345 vs 625

[worthy steeple]

625 is just a lie

[edgy crow]

[worthy steeple]

250+250+100 is like ideal combo and it does 600, idk where you got 625

600 is not even average, it’s an ideal combo

[crimson crater]

no, one kick to stun the opponent that’s 250 + another kick to the head while the opponent is immobilized that’s 375 iirc, all that adds up to 625

[worthy steeple]

fair enough i guess

at least it takes stamina to do so lol

and the thing is, you can only ever do that combo if something attacks you, not in offense

i can justify that damage considering teno is defensive

[crimson crater]

barely any + teno can play it defensively which means it isn’t forced to be constantly running unlike cera n waste stam

[worthy steeple]

cera doesn’t ever really run, it doesn’t really take any stamina

[crimson crater]

how does it doing 625 in a brawl fair lol

[crimson crater]

bro what, running is crucial for its playstyle

[worthy steeple]

how is vomit fair? lol

[worthy steeple]

yes, but it doesn’t take as much stamina in the fight

you usually end up with more than 90% stamina at the end of the fight as the cera, if you didn’t run

[edgy crow]

oops no more water
oops no more food
oops about half stam
takes only a few normal bites to do this

this is fair

[crimson crater]

hop on a test server later and show me how stamina inefficient teno is

[worthy steeple]

2 bites to make fg full hunger teno vomit is funny

[worthy steeple]

not home, i’ll be home tomorrow tho

[crimson crater]

vomit takes approximately 6% stam

[edgy crow]

does it?

I always end up about half stam 😭 maybe I'm just unlucky

[crimson crater]

you can also stall it out lol

[crimson crater]

yes

[edgy crow]

oh ok, the stam isn't that bad

[worthy steeple]

did you test that on dm? and is it the same for every dino? or its weight dependent

[crimson crater]

i tested it on teno

[worthy steeple]

so it’s 6%?

or is it random?

[crimson crater]

approximately yes

[worthy steeple]

approximately?

[crimson crater]

i tested it a while ago.

[worthy steeple]

hm, alright i’ll test that myself tomorrow

[crimson crater]

don’t remember the exact amount but it was around 6%

[viscid mica]

@edgy crow it’s not the attack or speed that are the problem it’s the animation lock of vomiting fix that and boom suddenly cera loses a ton of its dps capacity

We really need to stop trying to nerf the wrong things they will only stand to make it trash in the long term

The mass majority of playables are faster than cera only things bigger than it aren’t

[worthy steeple]

actually removing the animation lock would be nice

@edgy crow i was doing the number reactions, but then i just probably agree with the whole feedback, i think some people voted before you edited it tho ahah

[viscid mica]

Me still no like me still think nerf all wrong things

[worthy steeple]

why you talk like that?😭😭😭

lmaoo

[viscid mica]

Cuz I can

[worthy steeple]

i respect you for that, you know that?

[viscid mica]

Me no know that

Me know one thing ahem CHEESE

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-cheese-one-bite-jerry-mouse-gif-27668294

[iron tree]

Dibble is fine. Stego and dibble just don't have any predators aside from deino

[elfin night]

Deino imo should be the only playable who gets an objective benefit from eating the meat of its own kind other than not starving

[iron tree]

It's a crocodilian 😭

Of course it's gonna be cannibalistic

[elfin night]

In terms of realism, yes, absolutely

But even in terms of gameplay it is the one that makes the most sense considering it has to eat anything it gets, and water biomes are limited enough to make cannibalism a viable enough population control measure

[iron tree]

Indeed

[elfin night]

Unlike cera and potentially any other future land carnivore since it backfires due to the fact we get infinite spawns, so for example with cera it would get even more food than with all the carcasses since most of the server is a preferred diet prey

[iron tree]

Gharials are the only crocodilians who aren't really cannibalistic

[elfin night]

And they respawn infinitely, unlike in real life where cannibalism works because losses aren’t automatically replaced-

[elfin night]

And probably only because of their morphology. Otherwise 100% cannibals

[iron tree]

Indeed

[elfin night]

I just completely disagree with Kissen in this regard when she said that cannibalism quells overpopulation. It only really applies to deino because: 1) it is a long growth apex that leaves a huge power gap between full adults and younger specimens and exposes younger ones for a longer time 2) the water biome isn’t big enough to prevent all the young ones from getting spotted

But to sum up

Deino should be the cannibal. If you got eaten by a bigger croc, womp womp

[iron tree]

Most apexes should be cannibalistic

[elfin night]

I don’t think so since you run the risk of that backfiring

For example with Rex

[iron tree]

I mean the smaller rexes will have to survive against other carnivores

[elfin night]

You have a huge map with so much foliage and hiding spots compared to rivers and lakes, and considering that most people regardless of skill level play apexes, that means that the early apex stages would be rather easy with the constant surplus of food around.

Unless you mean canni as in not getting spasms, I totally agree. But I don’t think anyone but deino should get diet

[iron tree]

And if rex is gonna be a cannibal, even the larger rexes would be extremely careful

[elfin night]

Also because that would simply reward players for playing terribly like with cera rn since they just keep eating each other after you kill them with no penalty

[iron tree]

That's because cera is the META pick atm

[elfin night]

Only contexts in which I would like cannibal Rex would be:

1. if it is only during adulthood
2. if it simply doesn’t get spasms but can use organs for diet

[iron tree]

Yeah I think only adult rexes should be cannibalistic

[elfin night]

So younger ones don’t get diet boost from 60% of the server population and all the juvi Rex bodies around

[iron tree]

Juvi rexes should be little rats who stick together in hope to survive

[elfin night]

Mhm

Just not like juvi cera butchering each other and getting free boosts from hunting what is most of the player population when it releases

[dusky surge]

god i hope they arent that'll be a hell and a half

[elfin night]

Imagine the juvenile giga gameplay with the sense of smell it is hinted to have.

diets, diets everywhere

(I am assuming they will have other apexes in their diet and on top of that almost everyone is gonna play apex)

[viscid mica]

@elfin night make it sub Rex and above and you got a deal

[iron tree]

I mean we have like 4 terrestrial apex carnivore

Spino doesn't really have a reason to be cannibalistic

Giganoto will probably hunt larger stuff in duos as seen in its concept art

Acro could be cannibalistic

[worthy steeple]

did flows just block me so i won’t downvote his feedback? lmao

[iron tree]

lmao

[crimson crater]

no

i’m getting tired of you and your obvious bias

cera should get all this but increasing the stam on tenos kick by 1.5% is too much to ask for

[worthy steeple]

AHAHAHAHA

like actually just because i have different opinion

[crimson crater]

you good man?

u upvoted it

[worthy steeple]

so?

i liked the feedback

[iron tree]

WHAT IF...hear me out...cera is hypercharged atm

[crimson crater]

so let me get this straight, you support a feedback that suggests ceras dmg to be cut down to 250, 3% stam cost + it slows it down hampering its ability to dodge. yet asking for a extra 1.5% stam on tenos kick is too much? got it cheesy

[worthy steeple]

no, it can’t be😱

[iron tree]

and WHAT IF...hear me out again...teno isn't hypercharged and is actually quite balanced

[iron tree]

but...why? Doesn't tail slam already cost 3% stamina? + not like kick is op or anything

[crimson crater]

i just find it funny and hypocritical of cheesy to want cerato’s to be weak yet finds it upsetting when someone makes a feedback on teno

[crimson crater]

i did explain the pros on the kick in my feedback if u read it again

[iron tree]

The thing is, cera is overtuned and just doesn't fill its niche

[worthy steeple]

hm yes, because teno is the one that doesn’t need any changes, it’s not issue for the balance, cera is.

and you misread the suggestion, 250 outside of the body, the damage will be that ridiculous 345 with the body. that will
make a cera more of a body bully. what it should be. 3% stam cost per charge bite is fine lol, you want 4% for tenos kick that does 100 dmg less. slowing down cera with the charge bite is completely fine

[iron tree]

it really needs some tweaks. Cerato is currently evrima's version of ceratorex

Ceratorex 2.0

[crimson crater]

alright we’ve established that cera is overtuned, the question is, is that feedback the right thing for it or no?

maia was OP on release everyone and their mother was begging for it to be nerfed and now that its been nerfed everyone is crying for it to be buffed🤷‍♂️ same thing y’all are doing with cerato

[worthy steeple]

you’re the hypocrite lmaoo, you’re projecting so hard right now that’s insane.

how come you want 4% per kick for 250 damage

and 3% stam cost per 345 charge bite is a crime somehow? lol

[iron tree]

They overnerfed maia

Cerato should be a defensive brute

[crimson crater]

3% for 250 actually* the feedback explicitly stated that the dmg would be nerfed why are u so ignorant and blind

[iron tree]

rather than a hunter...that's what cera was supposed to be

[crimson crater]

and you think that’s the solution

[worthy steeple]

yes, without the body buff, with the body buff it will be 345 which is a lot

which will make cera stronger in certain situations, not always

[crimson crater]

@worthy steeple read again, 3% for 250dmg + it takes longer to build up the dmg + it slows it down. the cons outweigh the pros the charge bite is useless

idk where you’re pulling this “345” number from😂

[worthy steeple]

read it while

[crimson crater]

🤣

[worthy steeple]

“let’s it get the previous damage output near body”

[crimson crater]

calling me a hypocrite but is unable to comprehend basic sentences, classic cheesy

[worthy steeple]

you’re so mad that legit makes me giggle right meow

[crimson crater]

it was edited

[iron tree]

the solution is to rework it so it sticks to its niche

[worthy steeple]

it was edited like 5 minutes after the feedback was posted

lmao

[crimson crater]

anyways you still think that those changes are appropriate for it why, it shouldn’t be able to defend itself without a corpse?

[worthy steeple]

and it’s already edited on a feedback you sent, you just didn’t read it

[crimson crater]

i read it once, why would i go back every now and then to check it

[worthy steeple]

defend against what?

[crimson crater]

against everything but tiny tiers

[worthy steeple]

because you’re sending me a screenshot with something you didn’t even read lol, read it first and then ask questions

[iron tree]

you can always run

[crimson crater]

but i did read it LOL

[iron tree]

cera doesn't have to fight allos

or rexes

[crimson crater]

bro what

[iron tree]

W + shift.

vomit literally stuns

[crimson crater]

let me just run away as one of the slowest dinos rq

[iron tree]

it's as fast as teno 😭

[worthy steeple]

nice, that’s how it should be. you should be weak until you got a body buff and only then you can kick some butts.

as a cera you can still kill anything that you cannot outrun even with the nerfed damage

[crimson crater]

no that’s absolutely not how it should be. cerato isn’t designed to be unviable and a happy walking meal without a corpse, quit spreading misinformation about every playable

[worthy steeple]

no one said it’s gonna be a “happy meal” you just need to work harder to survive without the body buff.

you will be stronger in certain situations, not literally always in any scenario

[crimson crater]

cheesy aren’t u being a little hypocritical again

[worthy steeple]

ahahah

[crimson crater]

yes, with those changes it will be a walking happy meal which you support

[worthy steeple]

no? highly doubt that, what exactly do you think could kill it easily?

that it can’t easily outrun

[iron tree]

Survival ain't just running and fighting

[crimson crater]

carnos, 2 dilos and 3 omnis

[worthy steeple]

find the jungle, find water

don’t fight in plains

[iron tree]

you gotta hide, avoid certain animals and sometimes even overcome your fears

[iron tree]

omni literally can't harm cera unless they grapple it

[worthy steeple]

the only thing that can kill you is probably the dilo, that is literally just another overbuffed and broken dino. at least it’s bugged right now lol

but dilo is more of a dilo issue, it kills anything with the clones.

[iron tree]

It's not overbuffed

dilo is just broken...literally

[worthy steeple]

they made it so one bite during nighttime can kill anything, the clones will spawn unless you’re dead

[iron tree]

I doubt this was intended

[worthy steeple]

yeah who knows, but eventually they broke the clones so they don’t work sometimes

it’s basically a lottery at this point, you either die in seconds or the venom is useless

[crimson crater]

its very clear to me that
A: you have to clue on how things work
B: you are aware that the changes will ruin cerato but you don’t care as long as it benefits you (the teno main)

the charge bite slowing down the cerato will hamper its ability to dodge and make it vulnerable, pair with the fact that it will take longer to build up the dmg now. 8 whole seconds just to do as much as a teno can kick lol, not to mention that it will take 3% out of your stamina.

the cons outweigh the pros, why bother using such an attack if it does the opposite effect of benefits. the changes will enable carnos to just stall out the charge bite and then ram + bite, the carno can trade 240+ combo dmg with the ceras pathetic 150, the charged bite also won’t allow it to dodge attacks and you will be forced to trade something when your dmg output and hp can’t support.
stamina cost on an attacks like ceras dosen’t work, it isn’t always “i miss or i hit”, sometimes you have to cancel your charge to restart it for a better timing and being punished for that is crazy

[crimson crater]

same could be said about teno, let’s butcher it since it has ways to evade things🤷‍♂️

[shadow vortex]

I think that Cera needs only slight nerfs in its movement speed during bite charging (and probably make reaching charged bite's max damage slower), and making its bile more oriented on the long-run impact (so it can't really be used during the fight to stun lock something, and should work more as a deterrent). All those suggested by someone changes, if implemented all at once, are overkill, imho.

[worthy steeple]

longer to build up doesn’t mean 8 seconds specifically? where did you find that number tho?

carno will only ever be able to do significant damage to you if you’re somewhere in the open, if you run to the forrest or lakes they won’t be able to do anything to you

[iron tree]

bad match-ups exist

and cera swims really fast

[worthy steeple]

alright, actually, let’s not change how fast charge bite builds up. but the rest is fine

[crimson crater]

i got that number from the full duration of the charge. also why the hell would a cerato need to hide from the small game hunter carno LMAO

[crimson crater]

nope

[worthy steeple]

it is tho

[worthy steeple]

because carno is also should be the plains king and you should fear it

[crimson crater]

no, a carno will still be able to beat you with that. + tenos will be able to steamroll ceras

[crimson crater]

oh is that so, then tenos should fear carnos no?

[iron tree]

carno hunts same sized or smaller animals

which includes cerato

it literally has dibble and maia on its diet

[worthy steeple]

run away if you can’t fight it?

[crimson crater]

cheesy being a hypocrite once again who could’ve thought.

it wants ceras to be strictly doing their niche yet wants carno to dod something it wasn’t designed to? lmao

[worthy steeple]

who said it’s gonna be a steamroll tho? you will need more hits to kill it, that’s it

[crimson crater]

nerf teno plz, remove the stun from their kick and lower the dmg to 220. if you find yourself losing a battle just run away

[worthy steeple]

in plains? yes? they should lol. as they do, if you see few good carnos in plains you should be very careful even as the teno

[crimson crater]

mate, the carno vs teno matchup is a solid 30-70

[worthy steeple]

but teno is heavier as well, cera is small

[iron tree]

when do you realise that the term "small game" is made up by the community and carno is made to hunt same sized and smaller animals

[iron tree]

depends on the players

[crimson crater]

1.6 and 1.3. weight alone shouldn’t determine the outcome of a fight

[crimson crater]

my brother the developers themselves have stated that carno is a small game hunter lol

cheesy ran out of arguments lol

ran out of excuses*

[iron tree]

small game refers to animals smaller than the predator (or same sized)

[crimson crater]

you’re going on the blocked list aswell

[worthy steeple]

it 100% should tho, what

[iron tree]

Please just read cerato's description before it got added

#isle-phase-three message

[worthy steeple]

LMAOOOOO

[crimson crater]

according to?

[iron tree]

blocked for having a different opinion?

https://tenor.com/view/rule-goku-opinion-777-im-right-gif-6337973236486328123

you're giving that energy

[worthy steeple]

according to the game we play, look how bad is carno vs teno, because teno is heavier

[crimson crater]

blocked for obvious ragebait and denying objective things

[worthy steeple]

AHAHAHAHHAA

[iron tree]

ragebaiting? 😭

[crimson crater]

are you dull? even before carno got downsized teno had the advantage

[worthy steeple]

i think flows is rage baiting himself

[crimson crater]

just say u lost

you have no excuse to my argument this time

[worthy steeple]

you actually make me laugh so hard saying this, THATS HILARIOUS AHAHA

[iron tree]

which one

[crimson crater]

@worthy steeple please address this

[worthy steeple]

i’d say it was 50/50 fight

[crimson crater]

BRO WHATT😭😭

[worthy steeple]

maybe slightly teno sided because teno is slower and should have an advantage

[crimson crater]

my dude said slightly, it wasn’t even close to the carnos advantage.
it was too stiff to dodge and if it got close to a teno it would get stunned

[distant torrent]

ah yes I do love a good nerf teno suggestion when cera still has no repercussion for spamming charge bites and playing incredibly aggressive without a body when it’s supposed to be a corpse bully

[iron tree]

I love how flows claimed that cheesy has a teno bias yet they literally block me for saying carno should be able to fight ceras 😭

[glossy elbow]

bro i've been watching this argument since i was bored i don't even understand the argument at this point

[distant torrent]

beipi gets more nerfs than cera ..

[iron tree]

eh..I think it depends on the update

[distant torrent]

don’t worry it seems like he blocked me too lol

[iron tree]

I wasn't even aggressive at all 😭 I was just trying to tell them that carno should be able to fight ceras

[crimson crater]

apparently this is fine for cera but increasing the stam on tenos kick by 1.5% is too much

[iron tree]

Survival isn't just about running away or fighting

[crimson crater]

cheesy has no idea of what its talking about, i was a fool to argue with it

[iron tree]

and cera can literally avoid carnos by swimming away

[crimson crater]

yes

[iron tree]

blocked for not having a ceratorex bias

[distant torrent]

or not. couldn’t upvote or downvote the suggestion so I assumed I was blocked lol

[crimson crater]

i knew you’d downvote

[distant torrent]

you know me so well bestie

[glossy elbow]

i think you might be thinking too much into this. upvotes and downvoting don't even matter all that much its just for the community to voice their opinion

[crimson crater]

i didn’t want to assume you were herbi biased because of the name alone but you’ve shown it all

[glossy elbow]

let cheesy have their opinion at the end of the day it won't matter

[iron tree]

don't worry...they'll move on to the next carnivore once allo drops

[crimson crater]

this isn’t the first argument i’ve had with it. just this constant double standards and excuses is making my blood boil i won’t lie

[distant torrent]

because most herbivores either need buffs or don’t need to be changed while a select few carnivores need buffs or changes

I always upvote troodon buffs when I see them if they’re reasonable and not making it immortal

[crimson crater]

let me ask you a question rq, should cera v teno be a 50/50?

[iron tree]

no

[crimson crater]

not u

[iron tree]

idc

[distant torrent]

no. 85-15 if the cera has a body and 40-60 without a body

mans meant to be a corpse bully

[glossy elbow]

no teno is slower so for the main part it should have the base advantage unless the cera has a corpse then it would be even.

[crimson crater]

actually teno is faster + has more stam

[iron tree]

#isle-phase-three message

[worthy steeple]

yes

[glossy elbow]

eh then it should be basically even yeah

[worthy steeple]

i had to leave for a second what did i miss?

[crimson crater]

85-15 is insane

[worthy steeple]

teno has 20 seconds more running stamina and it’s 0.25% faster than the cera. flows forgot to mention that teno uses stam for its attacks

[iron tree]

me when the scavenger isn't supposed to be a great hunter

[crimson crater]

being a corpse bully dosent mean being weak outside it

[worthy steeple]

which makes the stam difference irrelevant

[crimson crater]

barely any + unlike cera, teno dosen’t have to be constantly running around during fights

[distant torrent]

if it’s not weak outside it then it’s a good hunter with convient body buffs

[worthy steeple]

it doesn’t run as much to make the difference and we already discussed that

[iron tree]

maybe...just maybe...avoid tenos as cera if you can't fight them

[crimson crater]

being able to defend itself dosent make it a hunter tho

[distant torrent]

the current version of it does

[worthy steeple]

okay it’s pretty cold outside so i have to leave the chat for a moment, or my hands will get cold and fall off. cya soon

[crimson crater]

my point was that tenos can fight stationary and preserve their stamina that way unlike ceras

[worthy steeple]

you never fight stationary as the teno

alright brb class

[iron tree]

take care!

[distant torrent]

I’m still genuinely disappointed cera wasn’t implemented or changed to how it was advertised to be initially

a slow tank that isn’t good at hunting but is a brutal opponent that not much wants to mess with

[crimson crater]

sure but there’s a fine line in toning something down a notch and butchering

[maiden ginkgo]

While I like the idea the devs can see our suggestions. I'm not a fan of this popularity contest. Some suggestions with current state make good sense, some are a bit more outlandish sure.

In the end, dino's have their roles and play should reflect that, not players wanting to keep their 'OP' status.

Abilities that get cheesed need to be adjusted. It's a sutvival dino game, the biggest issue IS the players are human. Most dino's that should be grouping are playing solo and the solo ones are grouping. This makes it's own meta.

[iron tree]

^

[carmine tundra]

probably plays only herbivore thats why shes complaining about nerfing omni pin and ceras bite lmao

[iron tree]

Or they just don't wanna have ceratorex

[carmine tundra]

cerato is fine right now i would just buff its charge bite damage and make it so it cant run while charging so thats its actually a defensive animal and uses its charged bite for defense not offense

coming from a carno main i would give its charged bite priority over carnos ram so that carnos feel less inclined to want to mess with a cera

[iron tree]

cerato is already hypercharged 😭

it should just stick to its niche

It probably needs some mechanics which will help cerato to fulfil its niche as a scavenger

[worthy steeple]

ty!

[severe grail]

Yeah make them only able to eat rotten food so they don't just rampage across the map and have to wait for their dinner.

Or only able to get their bile from rotten meat (which would make sense)

and nerf their damn debuff damage to stam/water/food

[iron tree]

I think you mean their bile

[severe grail]

yeah that

[iron tree]

and yeah! Rotten meat and bones!

[severe grail]

forgot the word

[crimson crater]

seems unnecessary, cera benefits from eating rotten carcasses more than fresh ones, not to mention that its harder to obtain bile after the diet rework

[severe grail]

Maybe a ticking debuff rather than outright vvomit and 3/4 of your stuff is gone and then at a certain point the vomiting starts, force cera to actually take their time with hunting, like how Komodo dragons have to with their venom.

[iron tree]

I hope you do know that cera needs something to fulfil its niche

[severe grail]

yeah but getting more hunger from it is not enough when you can just miurder more things and eat normally.

[iron tree]

Regarding earlier

[severe grail]

If I see a cera it always has a trail of corpses behind it lol

[iron tree]

If you think I want cera to be bad you're wrong

I really like ceratosaurus as it's one of my favourite dinosaurs and really like its niche even though it's doing everything but sticking to it atm

[iron tree]

it should be the opposite

[severe grail]

yes

[iron tree]

a trail of corpses should always have a cera behind it

[crimson crater]

outright nerfing it won’t fix that, just makes it feel bad to play

[iron tree]

It should receive nerfs

[severe grail]

It wuldn't feel bad to play if it wa balanced correctly. Cera should be corpse bully, defensive tank and a waiter, like a Deino on land.

[iron tree]

eh

cera should be a defensive "don't mess with me" playable

[severe grail]

yes like a deino on land. lol

[iron tree]

Imo cera should do less damage but have some kind of damage reduction and an even nastier bacterial bite

[severe grail]

i mean really just not being able to run around with their mouth open at full speed lol

that'd help a lot.

[iron tree]

I think the slide on the charged bite was fine

if charged bite gets its slide back the damage would be fine as you couldn't really use it in a hunt

[crimson crater]

that’s what i’m saying

[iron tree]

mhm

[crimson crater]

cera did fine when it had that

[iron tree]

back on spiro it wasn't really a META pick

[eager saddle]

Back on spiro gastro didn’t exist

[iron tree]

Indeed

Honestly, I miss spiro

[shadow vortex]

@strange patrol I believe that Dilo clones just broke further more with the patch, because sometimes they still do tremendous amount of damage.

[dusky surge]

i love how you bring up an entirely unrelated suggestion to go basically "look i could overnerf it even more but i didnt therefor my one is valid"

neither nerf is fine. stop using someone else's overnerf to justify your overnerf

the ceratosaurus nerf suggestion is def worse, ngl, completely butchers the animal, but that doesn't justify the teno one

[crimson crater]

was not my intention, i just find the double standards hilarious.

3.5% means you will be able to kick 28 times not accounting for passive stamina regeneration, that’s plenty no?

[crimson crater]

when did i say it would

[dusky surge]

well i have no double standards. i dislike both suggestions. i think having 4 unique nerfs to charge bite just completely butchers the attack, but i also think you underestimate just how heavily tactile endurance shifts the balance of how much a teno can ACTUALLY attack

remove tactile first then come back to me on stamina costs for teno

[crimson crater]

i remember a year ago, most people agreed on the fact that teno was too forgiving when it comes to its stamina penalty. you’re acting like we don’t know how it was without tactile

[dusky surge]

that was also back when tenontos attacks actually did notable damage lmao

so i def get what changed

[crimson crater]

how, it was nerfed by 25 on the kick, you can make it up with a regular bite LOL

[restive latch]

"Carno is a small game hunter so we nerfed it"

adds Maia to the diet list

🙃

Inb4 3 tons is smol guys trust

[glossy elbow]

you can still hunt juvie maias

[restive latch]

Even then it requires a full pack- which is still nerfed to 3

Meanwhile dryo goats and dilo are just absent

"Small game hunter"

[dusky surge]

Dryo is absent? Since when

Doesn’t that mean carno would only have Maia as lipids and nothing else

[restive latch]

Misspoke, I believe dryo is but dilo isn't

[restive latch]

Dryo don't exist and you know it.

As it stands, there is not a valid source of lipids for carno atm unless you hunt maia in a super pack of 6+

"Small game hunter" and "maia" don't belong together.

Meanwhile, the best prey for a carno is raptors and dilos- and dilos aren't on the diet anymore

[restive latch]

@steep gazelle cerato grow faster, are tankier, heal easier, and have a pack size of 4.

Carno in its current state can't take on a pack of ceratos unless they are just bad at the game.

I'd say add dilo to lines and increase the nutrient value for the smaller stuff (troos etc)

But if they buffed carno weight/biteforce back to 2600kg or whatever it was + increased pack size to 4? Sure cerato would be fair game.

[edgy crow]

What if I removed the point about increasing the charge time

Would that still be butchering?

[clever glacier]

Am I crazy to think a troodon shouldn’t be able to 1 shot a pteranodon?

Why are they on our diets if it’s such a hard counter?

[fiery shard]

not everything in the diet has to be killed 1 shot

[clever glacier]

That’s not what I’m saying.

[fiery shard]

I think you need to write here...
https://discord.com/channels/401464048610312193/855544219091730442

[edgy crow]

#balance-feedback message I have removed point 2. Are these still unreasonable changes?

[viscid mica]

yes

[edgy crow]

what else is unreasonable

[viscid mica]

to be honest all of it as none of these target the real issues of cera which is the animation locking vomit

any of these others simply lead to making cera highly unviable in the long haul and still not address the actual issue

[fiery shard]

cera has one problem. its spamming rmb with big damage

cera doesn't spend stamina on it and doesn't have a serious cd. all cera has to do is run around and hit rmb

[viscid mica]

its the fact that you get animation locked and it gives them free hits

you can legit run away from rmb

and its not spamable as it does same damage on left click if you dont chrage it

[swift mortar]

<@&505047238674874368> Hey im stuck on EU envrima and unstuck isnt working. Im on EU server 2 west my lat and long are -198228 and 147781 you fall in that location and unstuck does not function. I have died at this point realistically but id like to let yall know that location unstuck doesnt work.

[viscid mica]

wrong place

[swift mortar]

Ah wrong one

New to the server

[viscid mica]

try #evrima-eu and dont loc drop

[swift mortar]

It bounces me here when i cluck on bug reports

Oh im dead already

[fiery shard]

my bad. still, cera shouldn't have such an easy way to kill everything alive on the map. cera not apex lol

[viscid mica]

yes remove animation lock from vomiting and it loses a huge amount of dps power

[fiery shard]

agree, ye

[viscid mica]

1. Maybe
   2.never experienced it
2. No stego already has awful stam and it’s not built to be hunted by the smalls. It’s built for stuff nearly as big as it or bigger if we balance it to be small worthy it’ll be unplayable when larger stuff is added

@exotic viper

Meant to ping him in that

[elfin night]

Omni buff requests

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[mint star]

@slim dragon its that time

[slim dragon]

All my life I've been waiting for this

@fair oar

9 reasons why stress debuffs are bad (Bubulblu's mixpacking List) :

1. Griefers can and will continue griefing even with debuffs, unless they lead to death, which would pose a much bigger problem.
2. Depending on the range and timing of debuffs occuring, players can abuse them by regularly getting away from each other and continue griefing.
3. It ruins prolonged fights. Some fights in the game can last for 30+ minutes, but the game cannot tell the difference between a fight where no one hits each other for some time and mixpacking.
4. Mixpacking isn't necessarily an issue. There is nothing wrong with a group of small dinos hanging around a larger one who they know cannot catch them.
5. Temporary alliances can be fine. Two groups of predators can hunt the same prey and decide to help each other until said prey is dead, or two prey animals could stand side-by-side to defeat a powerful predator, without being necessarily griefers. The point of the game is to maximize your chances of survival.
6. It promotes deathmatch gameplay instead of survival, by forcing players to either run away or kill anything that isn't their own species.
7. A fast dino can purposefully debuff a slower one by following it and causing debuffs. Again, griefers don't care if they're being debuffed.
8. It ruins hiding. In a jungle or near water, two players can be very close to each other without being aware of each other's presence. Debuffs occuring would give them away to each other.
9. Stress implies forcing psychological reactions on a player, which is a bad thing to do in a horror game. A dino has no reason to be stressed or afraid if the player controlling it isn't. The game should try to scare off the player themselves, not their character.

[worthy steeple]

DECLINED

[clever glacier]

Can someone tell me why a troodon should 1 shot a pteranodon? I don't understand why my suggestion that their pounce shouldn't pin is unpopular. Troodons are on pteranodon's diet right?

[dusky surge]

imma be honest the fact that troodons ARE on ptera's diet is more the problem here lmao

troodon is exceptional at hunting it. it even has a tech to allow it to superjump with its pounce to hit them when they don't expect it

[clever glacier]

Exactly. why do I have an easier time hunting a herrera? I don't care if I can't kill a troodon but why is it on the diet though..

[valid sedge]

Why would they add humans to the isle???!

[dusky surge]

Because it's cool?

I personally really want them

The Isle has never been a pure dinosaur game, that's why its got the literal giant human-built domes lmao

[slim dragon]

Because they're one of the key elements to the game

[indigo rain]

....because that was the basis of the game?

[worthy steeple]

i’m really excited for the humans and their role in the game

[twin spire]

Depending on execution, humans could end up being either really cool or incredibly lame

Personally, I'm concerned about the potential lameness, but if they suck there'll slways be tons of unofficials that ban them so the game won't be ruined for me

[hasty coyote]

By that point modding should hopefully be available, so the community can have servers curated to different playstyles.

[maiden temple]

There are so many ways humans could fit into the game, not just playing an FPS with dinosaurs but researching, capturing, modifying players 😄

[iron tree]

that'd be so cool

[maiden temple]

Tracking and marking would also be fun, and the rest of us playing dinos would feel probed 😄

[iron tree]

imagine 10 humans capture your dinosaur and you try to break out

[maiden temple]

I remember seeing a mecha quetz on one of the arts Tapwing made and it gave me even more ideas

Capture 5 tenos, analyse each part of the body, make a mecha version, play as a 'fake' dino

Remotely controlled with a range limit

The possibilities are endless

[steep gazelle]

Dude, just because it's part of the diet doesn't mean he should be able to hunt it with his maximum group. A 1v1 between Carnotaurus and Cerato is relatively fair if it's in the open. And a group of 3 carno can actually handle 4 cerato in the open, if the ceratoses climb on rocks this makes it impossible

[iron tree]

ceras aren't tankier

[steep gazelle]

4 cerato cannot hunt a group of 6 diablos or 8 tenontos if they both know how to play. Cerato is a small dino and is Carno's "rival" in evrima

[restive latch]

1 body goes down and suddenly they are tanky af compared to a carno

[iron tree]

yeah

[restive latch]

Factor in over eating + gastro and yeah it's not a good fight

[iron tree]

but not naturally

[restive latch]

"In the niche near perfect conditions you can have a fair fight"

Carno is in a broken state atm, and Cera is a bit overtuned

[iron tree]

Carno is fine

[steep gazelle]

Cerato has its bacteria and stun very strong, but Carnotaurus is also strong if played correctly

[iron tree]

you just need some skill to use it properly

But I agree

[restive latch]

They nerfed carnos weight significantly and claim its now a small game hunter- yet added maia and kept Dibble/ten on its diet.

Adding Cera in place of troo for a "small game hunter" with a nerfed weight/bf is just... no...

[iron tree]

cera is very overtuned atm

[restive latch]

If they reverted carnos weight to ~2600kg or whatever it was then yeah sure replace troo with Cera and keep maia on there.

But no.

Carno is a "small game hunter"

"Maia for lipids" still makes me laugh

Inb4 "well hunt the babies" because that's just dumb. Using that logic why not add stego to pteras diet since they can "hunt them as babies"

[steep gazelle]

current carnotaurus with that weight would be totally op

[restive latch]

It's currently almost half of the theoretical low for the real carno

They nerfed it for balance purposes for a meta that no longer exists, yet left the diet unchanged

[steep gazelle]

Being too real can end up leaving things very unbalanced

[restive latch]

And if you want to keep maia/dib/teno on the diet + add Cera, then it needs some tweaking to compensate

[iron tree]

2.6t carno is crazy

[steep gazelle]

carno really needs a rework in his diet and his grow time and a small speed buff because dilos with photosyntec outperform carno if they are not using the charge

[restive latch]

"Small game hunter" that gets zero benefit hunting small game and has maia/dib/teno on the diet.

Either revert to mid size apex tier or fix diet

[steep gazelle]

I agree with the diet rework, but increasing the carnotaurus' weight to 2.6t is quite exaggerated

[restive latch]

To clarify- I wasn't suggesting both simultaneously lol

It's-

A. Keep the diet the same, remove troo and add Cera BUT revert carno weight

Or

B. Remove Maia for dilo

[steep gazelle]

It is not necessary to remove the maia, because 3 carnotaurs can hunt 1 maia, just remove another lipid like dryo if I'm not mistaken and add the dillo

[restive latch]

To expand on option A.-

If Cera replaces troo on the diet then carno will have a diet consisting almost entirely of larger animals. Maia, Dibble, teno, Cera etc.

.... for a "small game hunter...."

And saying that "well with teamwork..." ignores that the pack size is still limited to 3...

[restive latch]

Nah I say drop maia for dilo and call it a day

The fact that carno is on dilo diet is also hilarious

[steep gazelle]

unfortunately after nerfing carno the devs simply forgot about it and balancing the game. Troodon needs rework, pachy, carno too, and dillo is completely useless after the update. The devs need to review the game and read the suggestions instead of focusing on releasing new dinos.

and I'm not even going to talk about the terrible optimization xd

[swift wind]

https://tenor.com/view/arms-crossed-flex-muscles-gif-14905270

[swift wind]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241431626446147695/1299429967360430201/image0.gif

[iron tree]

I like cheesy because they dislike omni :D

[elfin night]

they should be blacklisted from the balance feedback channel

I think omni is so annoying and unlikable. And worst of all, so many people defend it

[worthy steeple]

ahah i don’t like carnivores in general tbh, just don’t like the gameplay.

i don’t like omnis, but i hate dilos and ceras more for being low skill and boring.

the only carnivore i actually like is a carno, because it actually takes skill and sometimes carno is the isle on hardcore mode ahah.

and people calling carno “bad” for me personally means it’s balanced playable that takes skill to do things👹

[iron tree]

I like every playable

Of course I've my favourites

[elfin night]

I personally do not like the current state of cera and dilo, they're far more oppressive than omni

but there's something about people saying that omni is this sort of super skilled playable that needs so much coordination that rubs me the wrong way

it takes a lot of skill and coordination to take something like a dibble or a stego, or someone near trees. But other than that? rmb and you win while being untargetable

[iron tree]

fr

[elfin night]

and unlike herra and deino, this guy can quietly rush towards you at the speed of sound and you can't realize till he is on you

[elfin night]

#isle-discussion message so hard to use even without pinning!!!!

[swift wind]

so much omni misinformation here

[elfin night]

and in order to destroy and ceras and carnos, all you need is one or two other people, a right mouse button and a discord vc.

[swift wind]

omni opps out of their mother's basement in full force ready to spread unenlightened rubbish

[worthy steeple]

😔

[elfin night]

omni defender comes in its defense and claims massive buffs after they tried to face pounce a dibble

[iron tree]

so skilled

[swift wind]

not a just comparison considering omni requires cooperation to use abilities like grapple whereas dibble and stego can be functionally independant

[iron tree]

I had omnis face pouncing my dibble

[worthy steeple]

dibble is also 7 times omnis size

[iron tree]

Poor goober got mauled within seconds

[swift wind]

yeah that too, but my point stands

[elfin night]

omni requires you to use your mouth and your brain in a discord vc when you're five and hunting a dibble or stego. All you need for something like a cera is: send a juvenile forth, make it pounce with juvie stamina to burn through that guy's, then two adult omnis run in and grapple. GG no counterplay unless you were standing by a tree that works already since you get slowed down and lose extra stam while pounced even when massively larger

so high skill and such a deserved and ENGAGING way to kill someone, am I right?

[worthy steeple]

tbf an omni is a little rat, but it punches way up. i wouldn’t really say it needs any buffs right now.

the only reason omni is in the shadows is because it’s easier for people to take like a dilo or something for easy win instead of searching for omni pack

[elfin night]

it doesn't at all

at best it should remain as it is now

[swift wind]

nice situation you made up in your head to justify your reasoning. this is not a generalisable statement

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[elfin night]

the bulk of omni complaints are about the need for coordination and then the desync. Neither is inherently a balance issue, you can get both better teammates and a better router

[swift wind]

needs a stamina buff to allow for more efficient teamwork

idk about desync. i cannot recall playing another game that has such great issues when it comes to desync/hitboxes. even scp sl's lagging hitboxes was less of an issue than this

[elfin night]

have you ever been on the receiving end of an omni attack? Do you know how busted that slow down and stamina drain are especially when regen is no longer like in legacy?

Unless you are literally like 50 meters away from a tree or are a super fast playable (most of those get pinned down anyway), you might need several seconds and you can lose like 20% stamina if not more getting to a tree and also losing 300-400 health in the proccess at the very least. And omnis then can just use their agility and bites to play normally when you are tree camping to perform at least okay.

And that if you are large and tanky enough, because all it takes for you to get very serious injuries and bleed as a carno is like 10-15 seconds of pouncing from just one

[elfin night]

yeah let's just make the grapple and pin deal even more damage

1k isn't enough

[worthy steeple]

absolutely not, omni got more than enough stamina.

[crimson crater]

it dosen’t

[swift wind]

just doesnt work like that in practice

[elfin night]

and once you're grappled (which isn't really hard to do as long as you aren't playing with 60 hour randoms and instead people who know how to aim), there's basically nothing you can do. I've managed to kill fresh adult dilos as juvenile or sub omni with a friend and it's so unfair man. You just use your impossibly quiet footsteps to run up to someone and deliver the (pound for pound) most devastating attack in the entire game besides herra pounce and if there's a third omni they can just start biting the head to skyrocket the damage

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-armstrong-handshake-gif-24880361

[elfin night]

you know stam is the main balancing factor for omni to remain as close to its league as possible, right?

two omnis aint beating a dibble with mainly pounces 😭

stamina buffs would just make omni crutch even harder on the already crazy good ability

[swift wind]

you cannot expect to balance stamina based on how youre using it as someone who is experienced preying on someone who is fresh to the game

[elfin night]

what?

[swift wind]

youre basing your opinion off of your experiences as someone with experience when fighting someone you called 'fresh'

[elfin night]

only mention of "fresh" was this one

[swift wind]

on officials where most people are playing there are varying skill levels. omni requires cooperation and you cannot just use the argument 'find better teammates' because you arent spoilt for choice. when youre playing a dino that is irrelevant when solo you take what you got. the stamina at fg drains slowly when youre running so if youre trying to keep up with a pack/respond to an attack youre going to use some stamina in doing so

and the fact that you require cooperation to be effective means youre going to be using stamina less efficiently than carnivores which can fight independently, essentially giving omni this 'debuff' when youre playing with randoms/not in a vc which is most of the time on officials

[elfin night]

so...you want to buff a dinosaur with a strong because noobs that use it poorly should be given an advantage instead of learning?

If someone manages their stam poorly, it is exclusively their fault

[crimson crater]

you’re acting like omni needs extreme levels of coordination and communication to be viable in packs, any competent player will do just fine

[elfin night]

and in fact buffing stamina isn't just a mean to make it more effective in packs, it would also make solo omnis stronger

[swift wind]

yep

but realistically solo omnis are always going to be irrelevant

[elfin night]

^

Solo omni is pretty decent rn. Just dont try soloing a carno unless you're a pro and you're good. Even dilos are perfectly doable unless they somehow ambush you

[crimson crater]

last time i checked solo omnis can 1 tap things 450KG and below with no counterplay for the victim

[swift wind]

dinos below 450kg at fg are never going to fight you anyway

[elfin night]

Not really, no

A solo omni is already a MENACE for a third of the available playables if not slightly more than that, and also plenty of subs and juveniles from larger species. They just cant take on a dibble or cera properly and that's about it, but omni is the most oppressive low tier besides dilo even now

[elfin night]

omni can slam pachies and dilos too unless they are basically inside a jungle.

one on one

[swift wind]

herras camp trees, troodons are small enough to make good use of any available cover, pteranodons can fly, no one plays dryo, no one plays hypsi, no one plays maia, beipis are semi aquatic and gallis are faster and also no one plays them

[swift wind]

dilos are strong enough that im going to ignore that statement

[crimson crater]

not just fg but juvi dinos. omni is better at small game hunting than carno lol

[crimson crater]

herreras are easy to hunt, gallis are played often aswell wym

[swift wind]

either small enough to hide or will be packed up with fgs. i rarely find juveniles without a pack

[swift wind]

easy to hunt if you have 1 hour waiting for them to come down

[crimson crater]

less, they got one of the fastest food and water drain forcing them to come down quite frequently for resources etc

[swift wind]

realistically the only fg dino below your weight i can think of that is actually common is the herra, and that has a 1 shot against dilos and is incredibly forgiving

[swift wind]

1 hour was hyperbole, but my point stands

[crimson crater]

forgiving?

[swift wind]

trees are everywhere

[crimson crater]

you can also bait them easily and dodge last second then pounce

[swift wind]

ive been hit by herras despite not being where they land. that idea sounds like suicide

[elfin night]

mfw omni is unironically better at stealth than herra on the ground

It's such a nauseous combination that it just can't get through the skull of many omni apologists

A creature that is fast and can be basically anywhere, which has one of the single strongest attacks in the entire game which has no counterplay if you are its size or less, that does basically no noise moving around compared to dilo which is the closest in terms of size.

Don't you see the problem there? You have an extreme high damage, slowdown, stamina drain ability that while used you cannot be targeted, paired with great agility AND great stealth. You can bring this attack to basically anyone with extreme ease and dont need setup like herra or deino

[crimson crater]

desync, i’ve done it. it takes herrera several seconds to land i fail to see how you can’t dodge in that time?

[swift wind]

because unsurprisingly i dont spend my entire game looking up

[elfin night]

dilo is strong because at night it can bite you and go shadow clone no jutsu from a mile away. But if dilo gets caught in the open or while drinking in the highlands, east plains, river delta or west access pond? It is cooked by a single mildly competent raptor

[crimson crater]

extreme exaggeration, just look up occasionally at herrera frequent spots like south plains waterfall

[swift wind]

if youre smaller then an omni you hide, if youre bigger than an omni youre probably able to beat it in a 1v1

[elfin night]

"just never encounter an omni, bro"

[swift wind]

not quite what i said 😁

[elfin night]

game has always been balanced around fight or flight

just hide bro isn't something that you can do all the time, and in fact it also proves that omni is nowhere as underpowered as people say it is when it dominates everything in its weight class and below.

and if you are bigger, dilo is situational, and pachy gets dunked on

15 seconds of pounce to kill a pachy, half stamina or so

They can't do anything about it despite having a not so atrocious statline

[swift wind]

sure buff pachy i dont care

[elfin night]

and dilo is more of the same really. If the omni tries trading/gets somehow ambushed despite dilo being infinitely louder/fights in the jungle, it likely dies. But as soon as you get a dilo in any mildly open place, you just gained the upper hand at the very least with one button press and a not so hard stealthy approach

[swift wind]

when playing there is naturally a bias against your encounters as the only playables that a smaller than you that a somewhat common are herra and troodon, troodon has no issues imo at hiding and herra has no issues in climbing a tree, therefore your encounters generally trend towards fighting stuff bigger than you which either cant run away or actively want to kill you

and if youre lucky enough to be in a pack you can be sure the next encounter youre gonna find yourself in is with a pack of anything bigger than you

this is what i believe based off of my experience playing omni on official. players are mixed skill levels, dont vc, both work against the omni as it requires decent coordination (improved by vc) to be effective, even against solo opponents. but when you add in the fact that youre probably going to be fighting a pack, its worse, desync issues disproportionately affect omni in comparison to other dinosaurs youre likely to face

[elfin night]

that is their problem

nothing prevents you, a human being with sensory organs and a brain living in a society connected by the internet, from getting any buddies or pairing with good randoms to make a kit that is good shine at its brightest

it's such a poor reason to buff something because randoms are terrible and don't add anything to a team

[swift wind]

and it is a cop out to just say that you should hop in a vc with competent randoms to actually be effective

omni gets a bigger malus when its players arent hopping in vcs when compared to animals which can fight independently

shouldnt make players feel inclined to hop in a vc with randos to not get shxt on ingame. some people are antisocial, some people dont want to. it is justifiable to not want to do this

[elfin night]

omni performs decently on its own and can hunt normal stuff. It is just that its ability can accomodate team play to go for game that it normally wouldn't. Dont pose it as if omni needed teamwork to be viable or perform okay.

it needs a group to perform okay vs much bigger things, that's it

[elfin night]

it is also their choice and on them

[swift wind]

yeah but the punishment for not wanting to vc with randos is bigger if you want to play as omni in comparison to another dino, as omni is more reliant on teamwork

[elfin night]

like man, allo is stinking like it's gonna be a 3 ton omni. It is likely gonna be a menace for like half of the roster. Should it be buffed just so that randoms who play badly are allowed to take on apexes?

[elfin night]

punishment is being unable to hunt stuff twice your size or more...

[swift wind]

omni obviously relies more heavily on teamwork than ceras and carnos, their mechanics allow them to fight independently, omnis grapple mechanic is dependant on teamwork...

[elfin night]

doesn't mean you're forced to use it. It merely encourages team play. And team play can be better with a good team. What's so bad about it?

it relies heavily on teamwork to take down things much larger than them. Not to survive fine

they are arguably the absolute best playable in the 0-500 kg mark. They survive without trouble on their own, and only struggle if they try to solo things they shouldn't be soloing

[swift wind]

of course the heaviest playable in the 0-500kg mark is going to be the 'best'

youre comparing it to things that are half its weight

but realistically anything below you in weight has an advantage in escaping you and herras have the ability to climb trees

[elfin night]

best doesn't mean strongest. It is straight up the best without any contest. Only herra comes close

[swift wind]

best by what metric? in combat?

[elfin night]

strongest implies it is the peak of combat in that weight class. It is super quiet, can jump and reach places others cant, juvi is a rat that cannot be caught unless stupid while being able to hunt unlike troodon, it has the pounce that can EASILY one tap fg herras at 30% growth or one tap dryos at like 25%, decently tanky, okay stamina and it is so much more maneuverable than pachy or dilo.

also very low maintenance and it is like twice as long as troodon to grow

you get a vastly superior troodon for twice the time. For twice the beipi time, you get something that can one tap beipi at like 15% growth. For about the same time as pachy, you get a truly viable animal that doesn't need photosynthetic to 100% not get ran down by ceras. For- you get the point, right?

even without grapple, omni is good. Grapple is an incentive and not the whole of its gimmick

sometimes randoms are good or bad and it is what it is

but you can make it more consitent by playing with friends and good players on vc. Such a little thing gets over that whole issue

[swift wind]

to you maybe. its very easy to just say squad up with good players if thats what youre accustomed to. my experience is that is not what happens

[severe grail]

They have AoE otherwise it'd be near impossible to get any kills lol

#balance-feedback message why the F would stegos need MORE HP or damage they already F everyone up.

[swift wind]

that just makes it less fun fighting herras and gives less credibility to the argument that you can just 'dodge' herra

[severe grail]

You can dodge herra it just takes good timing. The AoE is only like 1 body length radius.

[swift wind]

gives less credibility to that argument nonetheless imo

[maiden temple]

Herras are very noisy, I am yet to be surprised by one. If you struggle avoiding them just try to avoid trees around water sources/noisy spots

[elfin night]

do you actively seek and ask for it?

it's like dating man, unironically

nothing's gonna fall on your lap, you gotta put yourself out there too

[maiden temple]

It used to be much easier to group up on the old map, I miss it

[swift wind]

i know how to avoid one, unfortunately general game stresses and bad luck do not always allow you the comfort

[severe grail]

They're working on invite codes.

[maiden temple]

Then it's natural, you have been successfully hunted and fed someone else. No point dwelling

[severe grail]

In my experience, most players don't look up.

[swift wind]

im fine with vcing with randoms, it is more the principal that you get punished more as an omni for not doing to than other dinos

[maiden temple]

Nah I mean with randoms, I could roam the map and end up in a 8-man pack

[swift wind]

that was never the argument i was making...

[iron tree]

Fr and even if you find someone they usually have a carno buddy and kill you

[maiden temple]

This became so universal too, we grouped soooo much more before

Now it's just oh, my own kind, probably gonna murk me

[iron tree]

Indeed

[elfin night]

punishing is such a strong word for "I cannot actively hunt healthy creatures that are well over my size"

Does that mean allo will be punished for not teaming up because it cannot solo a stego?

[maiden temple]

Even herbis

[iron tree]

Fr

I was playing pachy and bumped into another pachy. We grouped up and everything was pretty chill. 15 minutes later they broke my leg, a carno and a stego charged at me and killed me. That's why I quit the official servers

Stuff like this happens way too often

[maiden temple]

Omni's biggest issue is pounce being a glitchy mess, you can still hunt pretty effectively alone. You have to be very patient and have some knowledge around picking targets but you're not useless

[maiden temple]

It makes me so sad

[swift wind]

if you arent cooperating as an omni pack and youre fighting a carno pack or something youre going to get rolled, even with a big numbers advantage. due to this cooperation necessity vcs make more of an impact on gameplay and youre hindered more because of it. this is what i mean when i say 'punishing', not what you are trying to make it mean. i dont think that is fair because you shouldnt have one dino where you are handicapped more for not being in a vc

[iron tree]

Fr..I used to nest and have fun on the officials

I'm playing on islander right now and it's really fun

[swift wind]

dont mention pounce being messy omni opps will blame it on latency and your bad internet

[iron tree]

I mean latency and desync is the reason hitboxes feel so off

Including pounce

[maiden temple]

It's factual, I used to main raptor as well. It gradually became an even bigger mess

[swift wind]

i know it is factual but the omni opps gonna blame you having bad wifi for it

[maiden temple]

Both of my mains rely heavily on ping (my own and my opponent's) and server tickrate

My last raptor died to a faulty pounce and it's infuriating. We were hunting a stinky maia

[elfin night]

I'm sorry for the expression, but no sh for that first part. Of course if you aren't functioning as a team you are gonna get rolled even if the bigger and stronger small game hunters are not playing as a team but there's a handful of them.

And please, you are NOT handicapped. You just keep eluding this also with the allo analogy too (which is a totally fair comparison because from what we know it is gonna be big omni mechanically). You are not handicapped or punished for not having good cooperation or teammates, you just can't reliably hunt stuff like dibbles as an OMNIRAPTOR, a creature that is about a third of a cerato's size. You don't need the grapple to survive at all or even feel unique because it is a side part of your kit.

[iron tree]

Grapple isn't omni's main mechanic

[maiden temple]

Try getting nested for your next raptor, you might have more fun (until your pounce fail kills you in the end)

[elfin night]

omni has the social image of raptors as big game pack hunters, but it is not the only thing you have, not even the centerpiece

omni can be viable, fun and unique without the grapple

or well, I guess we should buff allo's kit too to account for bad randoms so players can have an easier time or carry harder when fighting apexes

[hasty coyote]

seeing as yall are already arguing about omni, what do yall think of this? #balance-feedback message

[maiden temple]

Also - the most enjoyable hunts are the opportunistic ones if you're solo. See a cera fighting something? One of the sides took a lot of damage and are retreating? Follow 👀

[maiden temple]

Cool idea, but I doubt it would happen. That's a whole new mechanic to add

[swift wind]

not intepreting the way i meant it, i am arguing that the malus for not being in vc is bigger for omni than for another

[elfin night]

false dilemma. Omni isn't useless with trees nearby, you just gotta use your crazy good agility to get the bites in or tap pounce sometime to keep pressure.

And instant pounce would be so damn broken especially for troodon.

Other than that it seems good

[elfin night]

it is bigger if you are targeting large prey, otherwise you either perform the same or totally unaffected when compared to anyone else in the same situation

you keep missing that

[iron tree]

I kinda hate how omnis can spam pounce

And the way they go flying

[swift wind]

your encounters are always going to be weighted towars larger animals as smaller animals will avoid/climb trees to avoid you

[elfin night]

if they see or hear you coming, yeah.

[hasty coyote]

Its def not entirely useless if you REALLY know how to play it, but it becomes 10x harder the moment you arent in the open plains. Which is an issue, bucking and scraping should be about equal value imo.

also fair, I should prob make it only for pin and not pounce.

[elfin night]

and yet again, it is not some crippling punishment (arguably not even a punishment since that implies a net loss) to not be able to reliably take down things 3-10 times larger than you if your randoms are just bafflingly bad and clueless

[worthy steeple]

@hasty coyote i like your feedback

-# sorry for the ping, i had to👹👹👹

[elfin night]

and with the upcoming friend code and the existence of discord and steam, there's very little excuse to legitimately complain about bad teammates

[hasty coyote]

👍

[iron tree]

It's actually pretty good

[swift wind]

if your encounters are weighted towards packs of dinos larger than you then youre obviously put at a disadvantage if your malus for not being in vc is bigger than theirs

[maiden temple]

Makes it a nightmare for galli

[elfin night]

mfw when you are not forced to take every single fight you are presented and omni can escape from basically everything that poses a threat to it

choosing targets and being patient to make up for bad teammates is also a thing

hunger and thirst drain is an hour, that's a lotta time

[swift wind]

sounds like fun not being able to fight anything as everyone else is in a pack and therefore not a target

[maiden temple]

Not true

[hasty coyote]

to be fair, thats the case for everything. If theres 5 diablos v 5 ceras, those ceras are gonna lose unless theres a major skill diff.

[worthy steeple]

yes

[elfin night]

not true at all. Rampant confirmation bias if anything. People naturally split up or play alone, or their buddies log out. And they are very likely randoms too

[maiden temple]

You have people 1 calling to each other to try and meetup - you can intercept that.
You have groups of smalls around sanctuaries.
There are spots with herbi food other than migration zones that you can camp/explore - that's usually where solos go, because migration zones are full of ceras

That's just a few options

[elfin night]

^

[swift wind]

it is different when your encounters are weighted towards 1300kg carnos or 700kg dilos as a 450kg omni imo

[hasty coyote]

plus, generally solo players tend to hide because they die if they are spotted by a group, while large groups stay in the open because they have no threats.

[elfin night]

there's so many ways to go but nah, we gotta buff omni according to citizen to account for people who are bad at omni or at communication

[elfin night]

so bigger groups are easier to avoid

[swift wind]

i disagree

[iron tree]

Yeahh
Omnis should be punished for missing. Not for very long. Maybe for like a second? Just enough time for a galli or a pachy to escape

[maiden temple]

It used to be a thing and it truly sucked, because it's not always you missing, but the pounce issues getting you stunned for free

I think that's the only reason why there's no more windup

Cursed pounce

[hasty coyote]

It is def annoying to constantly see people as a carnivore but be unable to fight them. However, thats why we have small ai, so small carnivores can sustain themselves easier and only pick fights they know they can win, while larger carnivores have to be more risky because they will need food.

However, larger dinos are a bit too easy to sustain atm so you practically only see larger dinos, especially larger herbivores since they don't have predators designed for them yet.

[maiden temple]

There are deathmatch servers if you wanna learn to fight solos that could give you some confidence in solo hunts. It helped me 😄

[iron tree]

I know...pounce has always been very...✨ special ✨

[swift wind]

just got silenced 😢

[maiden temple]

We hunted stegos until they ran to waters, now we sit on rocks and DOO

[dusky surge]

pachy is such ridiculous ass atm its genuinely upsetting how bad this playable is

[elfin night]

true, but still almost the same would've happened to a dilo

or being fair a 500-600kg dilo

[dusky surge]

no a dilo can still sprint iirc

it is specifically pachy who is just utterly minced by omni

[maiden temple]

Pachy has been sad for a while, it really needs some changes

[elfin night]

they get super slowed down with an omni latched

[glass harbor]

@quaint bramble this is why we need allo to come

[crystal wharf]

how exactly is a diablo managing to hunt down a cerato

brainlet cerato momento honestly

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

"Dibble and cerato should be equals"

lol what

cerato should always have the disadvantage in a fight because it has complete and full power to just run the hell away

dibble cant do jack about it

[crystal wharf]

im more concerned about how ceratos are getting "hunted down" by dibbles

[dusky surge]

true lol

i guess if you have your hands firmly off your mouse and keyboard for a prolonged period of time you certainly will be easy pickings for a diabloceratops

[coarse blaze]

Diablo is overall slower than Cera. ✅

Diablo weighs a lot more than Cera, they're not in the same class. ✅

Cera is a corpse bully, scavenger and shouldn't be hunting Diablo to begin with. ✅

??? "Nerf Diablo!"

I direly wish more of this community would understand the whole "Not everything is meant to fight everything." rather than treating Isle like it's some deathmatch arena.

[worthy steeple]

i had to scull emoji that

[edgy crow]

Dibble when shift w

[iron tree]

Fr

#balance-feedback message cerato and dibble should not be equals

💀

Allo and Alberto will be dibble's predators

But cera? 💀 I'm glad dibble can handle a whole pack

[dusky surge]

Cerato really has Rex Jr. syndrome.

Random herbivore on the roster NOT being in constant terror? Cerato needs to be able to 1v1 it

[iron tree]

Fr

Ceratorex is back ig

[raven mist]

How many times will this argument be brought up, two different weight classes it’s fair that ceras should not be taking dibbles 1 on 1 and even 2 on 1 is where they might have a chance. What the Devs needed to do was introduce the mid tier carnivore like Allo first or months ago then it would be fine and a bit more balanced

[dusky surge]

If allo was introduced months ago that would’ve been hell on earth ngl

[edgy crow]

Nothing would stand up to it besides Stego dibble and Deino

Even then we only have Maia now which shouldn't be doing the best against allo in a 1v1

[raven mist]

I mean it’s kinda fair no? 3 mid tier herbivores and 0 mid tier carnivores. Makes it a bit stale and people will just complain

[dusky surge]

Don’t we just have Maia and Dibble in the midtier? And Maia is pretty huntable

[edgy crow]

Yea

Hell even with Rex and trikes release allos not going to have much to stand up to it in its speed range

Wait are we arguing different points ?

[raven mist]

Count it as 2 and Stego is an apex. So it kinda argues even more into my point?

[dusky surge]

We have deino which can kill literally everything but itself on the roster instantly tbf

[edgy crow]

I'm saying that allo is going to have not much to stand up to it in combat even after the release of Rex and trike

[raven mist]

Yeah but Deino is an isolated class in itself imo.

[iron tree]

Deino is very restricted too

How do dibbles even hunt ceratos

They can't kill you in one combo

Just .. hold down 2 buttons and move away from the dibble

[crimson crater]

ain’t nobody dying to a deino on a map like this lmao

allo will fix the game

[dusky surge]

I don’t know allo seems more to me like an impending heat death

Like watching the sun approach earth

[crimson crater]

why do u dislike allo lol

[edgy crow]

allo is going to be nigh uncontested AND have mechanics that reward pack hunting

[glossy elbow]

allo megapacks and mixpacks will probably be pain

[edgy crow]

it will be cera but worse

[glossy elbow]

yeah probably

[crimson crater]

at least dibbles and stegos won’t be uncontested anymore

[dusky surge]

I’d rather have those things be uncontested than allo be uncontested lol

[edgy crow]

dibbles and stegos aren't gonna have a funny ambush mechanic

dibbles and stegos won't have pin

[crimson crater]

doubt it will be

[glossy elbow]

time will tell I guess

[cosmic pelican]

It all depends on how good the alt attack is, and if they give it some silly dibble drift

[dusky surge]

adding allo to deal with dibble, stego and cera is kinda like handing out free rifles to deal with rising gun violence

yea i uh... i guess people can defend themselves from the other guns better?

[crimson crater]

kinda how population control and a working ecosystem works

allo prejudice is wild

[dusky surge]

a working ecosystem getting a new creature thrown into it that entirely upsets the balance is called an invasive species and we generally try to avoid that LMAO

[crimson crater]

“upsets the balance” based on what empirical evidence

[dusky surge]

i dont understand the allo glaze.

People HATE cerato because it's good at literally everything, yet love allo because it's good at literally everything
People HATE omni because they hate watching drawn out cutscenes with pins and grapples and what's allo's main ability?

Like what exactly does allo do that alleviates it from the sins of its most similar roster mates

its also bigger than cerato so its more oppressive to more things too

[crimson crater]

same thing could be said about other playables, people hate herrera because its a sky deino, “ 1 shot and no counter”, its also “untouchable” like pt and people hate that yet its good.
ima stay optimistic and say that allo will be enjoyable and fun to play

[crimson crater]

as long as the pin will be a tool for ambushes only i don’t see a problem with it

[dusky surge]

my issue isnt if its fun, the issue is if it's fun to play against, or its literally a fun vacuum where direct exposure just means you ain't playing anymore today unless you too are an allo

[edgy crow]

I really think we needed more mid tier herbis that can stand up to allo before its release

[dusky surge]

maia sure as hell aint doing it

which is fine because its maia and not really supposed to do that but still

[crimson crater]

dibble:

[edgy crow]

that is one mid tier herbi

[crimson crater]

and? we don’t need 10 mid tier herbis just for allo

in fact, the roster is already pretty herbivore dominant

[dusky surge]

dont carnivores STILL notably outnumber herbis even after the additions

and aren't maia/dryo/pachy/hypsi still considered ass dinos that you shouldn't play

[crimson crater]

troodon aswell

[dusky surge]

well as someone who frequently plays troodon i dont get the same vibe at all

[edgy crow]

8 carnivores, 7 herbivores

[dusky surge]

at least troodon is more mechanically complete lmao

[crimson crater]

i play troodon often aswell, how fortunate are u lol

[crimson crater]

8 tiny carnivores

[edgy crow]

Cera??
Carno???

Deino???

[dusky surge]

biggest animal in the game is a carnivore

lmao

[crimson crater]

right but its confined to the waters

[crimson crater]

not even mid tiers + carno is designed to be weak for its size

[dusky surge]

and hypsi and dryo are confined to not having their core mechanics whats your point

[edgy crow]

as far as I'm concerned allos are simply going to mow down cera megapacks

maia is too fast, and dibble and stego might honestly be too strong

[dusky surge]

also that's... not what carno is designed to be at all? it's just designed to specialise in a certain style of hunting and be fast

[crimson crater]

yes, if it can’t brawl with stuff its size does that not make it weak

[dusky surge]

i feel like you fail to understand what the word weak means

[edgy crow]

I don't understand why we couldn't have gotten magy before allo for example

[dusky surge]

an animal that isn't designed to be a brawler not being good at being a brawler doesn't make it weak

[dusky surge]

god i want magy

[glossy elbow]

I want pachy to be good again

[crimson crater]

because we need a proper hunter, there isn’t one atm

[dusky surge]

the hell does proper hunter mean lmao

[edgy crow]

to hunt what prey???

stego probably one or two shots allo

sure maia probably dies to allo but maia is maia

dibble is an enigma

[crimson crater]

something that isn’t cerato the garbage collector

[edgy crow]

why are we acting like there is a herbi epidemic

there is the opposite

[crimson crater]

no lol

[dusky surge]

raptor

[slim dragon]

Post the Petits Pieds populations

[crimson crater]

omni who can be entirely invalidated by terrain, ye it can’t do anything against dibbles and stegos

[dusky surge]

pretty sure today petits had a literal spontaneous flock event as they disabled pteranodon

[dusky surge]

if... allo is a grappler like omni who holds onto the sides of its prey... won't it have the EXACT same issues?

[dusky surge]

like why use THAT argument when supporting allo

[slim dragon]

No because allo will be able to grab stego's tail to prevent it from attacking

[edgy crow]

god the herbivore epidemic is just so bad guys

[crimson crater]

because it can at least take multiple hits and its ability will be far more devastating i assume

[edgy crow]

allo is STILL going to be one/two shot by stego

[slim dragon]

(Taking into account that Petits provides benefits to playing herbivore)

[crimson crater]

they are objectively stronger, just not played as much

[edgy crow]

why is allo seen as the solution to the stego "problem"

it is small and weak and will probably be one/two shot by it

[dusky surge]

"objectively stronger"

idk man i still think cerato takes the cake over all of them, and dilo before it was weirdly bugged

[edgy crow]

if anything rex will be the one to solve that

[slim dragon]

Rex will solve everything herbivore-related

[crimson crater]

idk man, i have no trouble killing ceratos, dibbles are the real problem

[dusky surge]

how

im confused what dibbles actually do to be this much of a problem lmao

besides stunlock carnos because carno has a disgusting knockdown animation but anything with a stun can do that

[edgy crow]

knock down carnis that are far weaker and far faster than them

[crimson crater]

it started when i said that herbivores are objectively stronger and you mentioned cerato then so on so forth

[crimson crater]

let me see.
extreme defense
instant acceleration par with the fact that it can instantly knock anything down that comes near it
sparring mode and that drift which makes it hard to get to its vulnerable spots

cera can’t be compared to it lol

[edgy crow]

you're right, cera is much much worse

[dusky surge]

pretty sure if you removed tactile endurance it'd be simple as to deal with lol

it can't run for very long and has a godawful standing turnrate

its entire combat relies on the ability to sprint

if it can't do that you just kinda win

[slim dragon]

So dibble is a problem because it has functional abilities and can fight properly ?

[dusky surge]

yes

[glossy elbow]

[crimson crater]

and cera can?

[dusky surge]

y- yes?

what?

[crimson crater]

so both share a similar weakness yet cera is OP and dibble isn’t

[dusky surge]

cera has one of the best turn radiuses in the game are you like

do you actually PLAY cera or do you just talk about how its fine on here

[slim dragon]

radii

[crimson crater]

i do play the game unlike u

dibble makes up for the lack of agility with that drift and sparring mode

[dusky surge]

and yet you think cerato, the animal you advocate for most, has a bad standing turn

also the spar absolutely does not make up for it it is really quite slow

[crimson crater]

no? i was referring to the stamina on both

[dusky surge]

cerato's stamina is significantly better

[crimson crater]

when running ye but it helps u protect your flanks and move around better

[slim dragon]

After playing dibble and enjoying it a lot (without tactile endurance) I can say the turn radius is definitely a huge weakness
Without a mate or a rock to huddle against, a single raptor can be a menace

[crimson crater]

what’s its run time

[slim dragon]

The stamina isn't much of an issue imo since it fights mostly statically
Just don't run

[crimson crater]

bubulbu finds himself struggling against a raptor.

[slim dragon]

?

[crimson crater]

you’re alone on this one

[slim dragon]

You don't need to repost my own messages, I know what I wrote

[crimson crater]

then don’t reply with “?”

[slim dragon]

It's your conclusions and how they are relevant to the conversation I don't understand

[dusky surge]

its baffling that you make a sweeping statement about them then criticise them for being confused by how you lept to such logical conclusions lmao

it's like me saying that you don't know how to sprint because you struggle with dibbles

[crimson crater]

• without a mate or a rock to huddle against, a single raptor can be a menace.

i think its obvious what this implies

[dusky surge]

it imples EXACTLY what is written

[slim dragon]

If you want to know the full story I got attacked by two raptors as a freshspawn dibble last time I played it, and I managed to kill them both after running towards a cliff so I can protect my flanks
But without the cliff I'd have probably died (cuz bucking also wasn't working for some reason)

[dusky surge]

and it is objectively true as well if you'd actually play dibble

[crimson crater]

if you find a single raptor as a noteworthy threat then you’re pretty bad no?

[edgy crow]

no bucking is just a bad system

[dusky surge]

thats not what he said

[crimson crater]

want to 1v1 me as a cerato, i’ll go dibble and show me.

all bark no bite as always

[dusky surge]

you can struggle to hit that single mosquito pestering you for the past 15 minutes but that doesn't mean the mosquito is a noteworthy threat

[crimson crater]

skill issue

[dusky surge]

ah yes, the old "1v1 me" argument that means absolutely nothing because scripted combat is NOTHING like the actual survival game experience

not to mention, again, i do not like fighting my 200+ ping on some american/european when i play this game, nor do i play this game like a competitive shooter and practice day in and out to earn the respect of some randoms. if i wanted to play comp, i'd pick a game built around it. i play this game casually lol

a very formulaic, set up 1v1 is not how this game works and everyone knows it

[slim dragon]

I don't even claim to be a good dibble, but even if I was the worst dibble player ever, it doesn't change anything about its turn radius.
It's slow, and that's a big weakness, even while sparring, because spamming alt-attacks is the only way to reliably protect your flanks as a dibble
But the alt isn't even that fast either

[crimson crater]

i only suggested it because you claimed i don’t play dibble😂
so quick to talk but the moment you’re asked to back it up off you go lmao
i’ll even go juvenile just to show u how busted dibble is

[edgy crow]

wait what servers do you play on lol

[dusky surge]

im aussie, so aussie ones

[crimson crater]

kinda how combat testing works

[slim dragon]

upside-down bri'ish person

[edgy crow]

ain't no way we're both au players lol

[dusky surge]

ive been on the QA team and stress testing team and funnily enough this isn't even how the devs do it lol

they do far more tests than slamming 2 toys together and calling it there

[crimson crater]

sure but that’s the closest thing we can get accurate results from

just don’t call people bad when u can’t back up that talk

[dusky surge]

did i call you bad?

because i dont recall ever using that word

i think better more accurate results come from actual main gameplay

[crimson crater]

claimed i don’t ever play dibble