balance-feedback-discussion

[crimson crater]

dosent matter when u can just turn around to kick

[worthy steeple]

you can’t do it that fast, you need to bait

[crimson crater]

you’re right, it takes effort pressing the A key

[worthy steeple]

i still don’t see the point of nerfing the bleed

[crimson crater]

teno has pachy level agility

[edgy crow]

Yes it does...

[worthy steeple]

cera doing everything with its one attack is fine i guess

[crimson crater]

skill issue

[worthy steeple]

cera does what?

huge amount of bleed
bacteria
huge amount of damage
doesn’t cost stamina

everything with just one attack

[crimson crater]

it dosent do a lot of bleed

[worthy steeple]

it does lol, it does a lot for non bleeder

[edgy crow]

atp to make it equal just don't give teno's kick a stam cost

[worthy steeple]

real AHAHAH

[crimson crater]

at least it takes time for the dmg to build up unlike teno, it can spam its strongest attack for 2% stam

[edgy crow]

AND buff it to its previous damage

[edgy crow]

That time being two seconds

[worthy steeple]

time is 2 seconds? tap does 200 something

[crimson crater]

in that time a teno can kick 3 times so my point still stands

[crimson crater]

tap does 155

[edgy crow]

it literally can't

[worthy steeple]

it can spam not so many times before it won’t be able to regen

[worthy steeple]

did you test this yourself?

[crimson crater]

teno has one of the fastest dps wym

[crimson crater]

the tail slam?

[worthy steeple]

IT CANT LMAO

[edgy crow]

I know for a fact it can't kick three times in two seconds

[crimson crater]

ye

[dusky surge]

teno has pretty consistent DPS, sure, but cerato still has insane burst, which i think is something being overlooked

[edgy crow]

here comes the lord and saviour of the feedback channels wavepoole

[worthy steeple]

lmao

[dusky surge]

many playables in games tend to be balanced around burst vs consistency

hell, carno is a great example. It's been both

new carno is balanced around more consistent, constant DPS, vs old carno, being insane burst damage

[crimson crater]

cera also needs a nerf

[dusky surge]

i mean im not even talking about that

im just saying that they're balanced differently

cerato CAN do consistent DPS too thanks to a great biterate, but it's not as good as teno

[crimson crater]

yea, just saying that nerfing the bleed on its kick ain’t bad if it gets compensated for

[worthy steeple]

alt attack is used mainly for fighting when you’re out of stam or when you fight something like omni.

you almost never fight cera or carno with alt attack, the attacks have different purposes. can’t really remove the bleed for the kicks and give the bleed to alt attack and call it “balance”

it’s 90% just straight up nerf

[crimson crater]

the alt attack is very useful against things like cera and carno

[worthy steeple]

for the situational alt attack buff

[worthy steeple]

it’s literally not

[crimson crater]

how

[dusky surge]

its honestly not great on those creatures

its much better on smaller critters like raptors or dilos

[crimson crater]

its fast and dosent have endlag

[dusky surge]

because it has an extremely generous and fast hitbox that allows you to take swipes at really quick critters that are hard to otherwise hit

[crimson crater]

it can facetank carnos and ceras with it

[steep otter]

Way to little damage

[tribal idol]

I was a teno main for like a year and still play him a little, alt attacks can be ok againt cera/carno, mainly used againt omni/dilo. but if you buffed alt attacks damage and bleed slighlty along with a kick bleed nerf, that wouldnt be a horrible idea

[worthy steeple]

i suggest you fight a carno or cera as a teno and use only alt attacks. just so you see how useless they are

[worthy steeple]

you can’t

[crimson crater]

130 every pico second

[tribal idol]

it can

[worthy steeple]

i mean, you can ofc if you want every attack to be a trade.

both cera and carno will kill you

cera can just easily tank your alt attacks with the charge bites

[crimson crater]

yea that’s what i’m saying, i want tenos to use more of their attacks rather than just kick, what’s the point of a dino designed to combo if 1 attack is superior to the others

[worthy steeple]

carno will charge you, it will not stand still and bite

[crimson crater]

you can trade it, carnos charge dmg is 100 on taps

[worthy steeple]

dudes you should play an actual game and test it yourself lmao

[tribal idol]

yea obv, but in the messege you were saying cera/carno would win a face tank

[worthy steeple]

you’re so wrong omg

[crimson crater]

nah

have u seen the speed of that attack

[edgy crow]

I don't see what the problem is with letting Teno stay slightly underpowered again it needs buffs, not nerfs

[worthy steeple]

cera will definitely win that, carno needs to charge

[tribal idol]

and alt attacks can still be used againt carnos and ceras since getting turned around for a kick can be hard, or if they dodge ur kick it can be nice extra damage/bleed

[worthy steeple]

only if you use it in front of you

[tribal idol]

cera loses the facetank, have tested it multiple times

[worthy steeple]

last thing teno needs is more nerfs holy. lets nerf cera first? what about that? lol

[edgy crow]

society if stam cost on cera charge bite:

[crimson crater]

it isn’t just a nerf

[worthy steeple]

it doesn’t, test it yourself

[edgy crow]

Yes it is tho, kick is easily its best attack

[crimson crater]

stamina while charging or when its biting?

[worthy steeple]

it’s a nerf for a situational buff that just wont work

[edgy crow]

I'd say when its biting

[tribal idol]

its not a nerf if you buff the alt attack too, its making it to where u dont use only 1 attack. having the kick, tail slam, and alt attack all being good attacks in what we want

[crimson crater]

which it shouldn’t be, every other attack is obsolete

[worthy steeple]

because no one uses alt attacks in a fight against bigger animals, not worth it

[tribal idol]

I have tested it probally 20 times with the cera having less damage from larger and it still loses

[worthy steeple]

alt attack already does good bleed, it doesn’t need a buff

[crimson crater]

not so good bleed

[worthy steeple]

so you’re saying as a teno i can alt bite tank cera and win?

[tribal idol]

yes

[worthy steeple]

because it’s weaker attack

[worthy steeple]

what do you think about this @crimson crater ?

[crimson crater]

it can

[worthy steeple]

you’re insane

[crimson crater]

even if the cera has bile, we can test it on norden if u want

[worthy steeple]

made up facts to make teno look op

[worthy steeple]

sure, not now tho, but this evening

[tribal idol]

idk if with bile it wins, but without less damage mut, the teno is on orange, so it might still win that

[worthy steeple]

or you can test it yourself and send me a clip

[edgy crow]

Ping me with the results

[worthy steeple]

i will

[eternal iris]

Slightly underpowered in comparison to what? I'd say it fights everything in it's weight class pretty comfortably

[crimson crater]

teno is far from underpowered, last thing it needs is buffs

[tribal idol]

yea its not underpowered, but I think it should get its power shifted around so its other attacks are more useful

[dusky surge]

^

i miss when each attack felt valuable, rather than kick just trumping all

[crimson crater]

agreed

[steep otter]

At least still better them Maia in defending itself

[crimson crater]

that’s what i’m saying

[eternal iris]

I don't know if I'm missing the correlation between attacks on Maia or what, but it's kit just doesn't click with me. It feels like the attack inputs are randomly mapped rather than being cohesive

[tribal idol]

yea maia needs some type of combat buff, rn it struggles even against raptors and dilos, im fine with it struggling against ceras and whatever, but omnis is a bit too small to be a hard fight

[steep otter]

Yeah Maia needs some love

Ive seen full maias get destroyed by carnos easily

[iron tree]

Charge does way more damage

[iron tree]

^

[crimson crater]

yea but you need to run for 10 seconds, max dmg is like 175

[worthy steeple]

lies and misinfo

it charges in 2 seconds

[crimson crater]

no lmao

hyperbolic

[worthy steeple]

definitely not in 10, not even in 4 seconds

[crimson crater]

just dodge

the carno can’t land that unless u afk

[worthy steeple]

oh nvm you were talking about carno💀

i though you were talking about cera lmaoo

https://tenor.com/view/we-live-in-a-society-society-joker-gamers-rise-up-gang-weed-gif-13919217

[iron tree]

No

10 seconds for a knockdown

But max damage charges within 2 seconds

[crimson crater]

enough time to dodge

[iron tree]

It can spam charge

And drift quite well

[crimson crater]

brother a carno can’t do anything to things its size

[worthy steeple]

it can tho

anything that is 1.300 and below dies to carno

[iron tree]

Me who killed a cera easily by simply relying on charge

And actually using charge

And cera is hypercharged rn

[crimson crater]

bad cera, dosent mean carno is strong

[crimson crater]

it can’t kill anything 1.3T, just stuff smaller than itself

[worthy steeple]

cera loses vs carno in open field

[crimson crater]

but cera is op it can’t be beaten

[worthy steeple]

op doesnt mean it cant be beaten, it means its a lot stronger than it should be

[crimson crater]

dosent it mean that its extremely hard to beat?

kinda contradictory

[worthy steeple]

i mean, carno is the king of the plains and even then cera can do some damage to carno, but i doubt it will win the fight

at least im yet to see the cera that can fight back effectively fighting carno in plains

[eternal iris]

Using cover feels like Ceratos only real win condition against a Carno who has good accuracy with charges

[worthy steeple]

yes, thats how it should be imo

[crimson crater]

not very small game hunting much

[worthy steeple]

cera having adventage in every other situation, especially near the body, so it being weaker in open plains is fine

[worthy steeple]

cera is not scavenger as well

[iron tree]

💀

[eternal iris]

Agreed

[crimson crater]

i was mocking cheesy cuz she always complains about how op and oppressive cera is

[iron tree]

it is

it's supposed to be a body bully

and not an active hunter who can punch up above its weight

[crimson crater]

it can’t though

what can it punch up to?

[iron tree]

dibbles and tenos

[eternal iris]

Teno, technically

[iron tree]

I mean, 2-3 ceras shouldn't shred dibbles

[crimson crater]

it can’t kill dibbles solo and tenos are nearly the same size lmao

[iron tree]

cera is supposed to be a scavenger/body bully though

[crimson crater]

scavenger dosent mean unable to defend yourself against tenos

[iron tree]

yeah but it shouldn't actively hunt them

[crimson crater]

literally every playable can kill things bigger than themselves with the group advantage. how can cera punch up lol

[eternal iris]

Tbh take the average Cerato player and average Maia player and my moneys on the Cerato

But that's more of a skill issue lol

[crimson crater]

maia is just bad, anything can kill it

[iron tree]

stun lock

one charged bite can make a fully grown dibble vomit

[crimson crater]

no

[iron tree]

yes

[crimson crater]

that was 4 months ago, a little late

[iron tree]

nope

still does

[crimson crater]

it can’t even make a fg carno puke with one charged bite LMAO

[iron tree]

it can

[crimson crater]

they decreased its bile

[eternal iris]

Cerato is definitely overtuned. It's only "weakness" that I hear people say is it's speed, and even then its really not all that slow, especially in combat due to how fast it accelerates

[crimson crater]

are you willing to prove it

[iron tree]

sure

lemme find a cera later

[crimson crater]

there’s a free admin server we can test it out

[iron tree]

I can't rn

I am playing Marvel rivals

[crimson crater]

alr

[eternal iris]

I'm on EU if you want to test it

[crimson crater]

eu norden?

[eternal iris]

Yes

[crimson crater]

coming

spawn cera

[eternal iris]

It took 3 bites

[worthy steeple]

so what happened?

[eternal iris]

We tested how many bites it takes for Cerato to induce vomit sickness on Diablo

[iron tree]

regular bites?

[eternal iris]

We are going to test again with low hunger

[eternal iris]

Charged

[worthy steeple]

yeah it is, its 3 bites for the dibble, 2 for the teno

low hunger is insta vomit from one bite

[crimson crater]

btw are u available so we can test the thing out?

[worthy steeple]

test what?

i am, but only in like 4-5 hours or so tho

[crimson crater]

cera vs teno in a facetank

[worthy steeple]

hm yeah sure

[eternal iris]

If your stomach is at 10% then Cerato can make you vomit in one charge bite

We didn't test all the ranges, but that's what you could expect on the low end for a very hungry Diablo (given grazing exists)

[crimson crater]

dibble vs cera is not close, it can’t punch up

[eternal iris]

The tail hits getting a full knockdown makes it rough

[crimson crater]

yea

wanna try anything else?

[crimson crater]

wya

[eternal iris]

I'm down to practice some matchups if you want

[crimson crater]

alr

[eternal iris]

Maybe I should practice Maia because im really not great with it

[worthy steeple]

im no on, i cant play right now

[crimson crater]

ok i’m a teno

[worthy steeple]

tho you can test it with quark

[crimson crater]

yea @eternal iris spawn cera again

@worthy steeple teno still wins

[worthy steeple]

no way, how much health teno has after the fight tho?

[crimson crater]

i was deep red

15%

[worthy steeple]

crazy

[crimson crater]

so yea tenos alt isn’t useless against ceras

[worthy steeple]

never said its useless, its just you wont really use it in the real fight, cera wont just stand still and bite you

and take alt bite hits

[crimson crater]

no ofc but during a real fight u don’t have to use the alt only

use kicks, tailslams etc, a little of every attack

[eternal iris]

ggs

[crimson crater]

ggs was fun fighting u

[latent lichen]

I really love the idea of flies attacking herbivores to prevent them from body guarding, that would be super imo

[eternal iris]

Flies applying a debuff to herbivores would probably be better than straight up dealing damage, but yeah that's a great idea

[latent lichen]

Yeah, we need something to help make herbivores stop body guarding

[eternal iris]

You should make that into a suggestion and post it in #general-feedback

[latent lichen]

Someone already made a feedback suggestion for it

[steep echo]

#balance-feedback message sounds like a dinosaur horror film awesomebro murder fantasy mechanic

[slim dragon]

It's also one of the most unbalanced OP mechanics that I've ever seen
Infinite stamina for 30 minutes
That's a lot

[swift wind]

omniraptor gets bullied by larger carnivores it doesnt need to get bullied by smaller ones too😭

[cosmic pelican]

Hunting omnis as troodon is more than possible as well lmao

An experienced troodon has a good chance at beating an inexperienced omni even in a 1v1

[steep echo]

I must not be experienced

[viscid mica]

@torpid rose was this in highlands on na1? Dibble and 4 teno 3 full 1 half

[torpid rose]

no it wasnt actually

[viscid mica]

Cuz I could explain what happened and why yall weren’t killing the dilo if it was (was one of the dilo)

[viscid mica]

Ah dam never mind

[edgy crow]

[viscid mica]

How big where you?

[torpid rose]

fg

[viscid mica]

Cuz it still has splash and the k knock down is very forgiving

If you have alt turned off and get a knock that’s a free kick which doesn’t a TON of damage

You can nearly 2 tap dilo with kicks

[torpid rose]

i assumed maybe it was buggy on my part or something. i used to be able to kill them before they got close enough to bite with the tail slam. but it wasnt connecting. same with claws, they would bite me before i could hit them

[viscid mica]

I mean tail slam doesn’t do A ton of dps it’s the stun that leads to a free kick

Kicking is always way better

Stuns + super dps

[viscid mica]

Claws are delayed hit

Y out can see how it turns and claws come out shortly after

[torpid rose]

okay, ill try kicking them next time thanks for advice. i still think tail slam should work though, becasue dilo clones dont have hp right? its just if they get hit with any attack they leave

[viscid mica]

Yes but no you still get damaged

Dunno if it’s a bug or legit rn

I’d recommend turning off auto alt

[torpid rose]

yeah, its off. just gonna have to get into another fight too try other things

[viscid mica]

I dunno might not be able to do anything

Best bet is just kicking and not wasting time on tail slams

[maiden temple]

Last time I fought dilos I couldn't damage the clones at all either, tail slams are the default for me since they have no chance to get close enough to me, I got them in a narrow spot, half elevated so they only had one place to come through. Could hit the dilos themselves there, but not the clones. They just went through lol

It's really really janky

@pliant solstice getting a bleed going on a target is already a good tactic as their health and stamina regens slower once bleed is low enough - and they get there really fast if they keep running. A better tracking would be a much more fair mechanic than 'ambush and bite it once to win even though it's faster than you'

Running away from a fight should stay a viable way to survive

[woven ginkgo]

The Carno vs Cerato match up feels really bad for the Carno. As a 100% Carno I rammed an adult Cerato 5-6 times then went in to finish it off and the thing killed me immediately. To be fair I probably suck at this game but dam Carno felt weak AF 😅

[dusky surge]

carno is meant to be a smaller game hunter, not something that picks on its own size. This is also why it's SO much faster than its own size, so it can escape anything it doesn't like the look of

cerato is meant to be a notable threat to it that carno often wants to avoid

[edgy crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1329628833518977034/small_game_hunter.gif

[woven ginkgo]

I feel you, was just surprised at how little damage I did consideringthe size difference. Plus one bite basically lowered my stamina enough where I couldn't escape.

[dusky surge]

@uncut trellis that makes... literally no sense

like i dont WANT galli bleed back but that is such a bizarre take

galli and austro literally could not be more different beyond the concept of austro maybe having a kick attack or two

you're comparing a land-based inagile omnivorous speedster to a semi-aquatic, highly agile lightweight predator

[uncut trellis]

What doesn’t make sense? I was simply stating that it’s a kicker that can bleed. I’m not saying Austros will be capable of bleeding out large species, just that it will almost certainly be a bleeding kicker.

[dusky surge]

okay but like

why does that mean galli shouldn't bleed

honestly, if anything, your point only adds to the idea that galli SHOULD be able to bleed, not the other way around

if teno, raptor, troodon and austro kicks all do bleed, why the hell shouldn't galli?

[viscid mica]

I mean galli doesn’t need bleed kick but it’s not cuz Astro it simply doesn’t need it

[dusky surge]

^

like i have no idea what austro has to do with anything

[viscid mica]

Yea…

[uncut trellis]

Maybe I shoulda rephrased, Austro being a bleeding kicker is not the reason Galli shouldn’t bleed. But it’s rather a reason why people should calm down over Galli not having it

[dusky surge]

it doesn't matter if austro can or cannot bleed with its kick, because people aren't playing galli only because it can or can't kick on its bleed. If someone's favourite animal is galli, that plays COMPLETELY differently to austro. Literally, your argument relies on the flavour of an attack animation over the entire niche of both animals

[dusky surge]

i don't really think it is though? because the "bleeding kicker" is not galli's core identity, it was merely a unique upside that was taken away, and people who still enjoy galli want it back

austro will never be another galli

people who enjoy the playstyle of galli aren't going to swap to austro because it has a kick that bleeds, if they did, they would've all picked teno by now

[uncut trellis]

Galli is still plenty capable without bleed, I’m just not sure what the fuss is all about. I’m hearing everyone talk about it

[dusky surge]

i never said it isn't. i just think the austro comparison is bizarre

[uncut trellis]

And even if it’s a very difficult task, I wouldn’t be surprised if Austros could bleed out larger opponent with a similar style to Galli.

[uncut trellis]

Austros moveset does seem like a fusion of typical carnivore and Galli. My comparison is a kick attack, that can probably be used while running. Even if their niches couldn’t be more different

[uncut trellis]

Is that still a crazy comparison?

[viscid mica]

Ngl galli bleed kick would make carni solo unplayable as you’d get bled out every five seconds by some random galli following you around the map

[dusky surge]

i still think so simply because i think you're oversimplifying the argument down to "people want a kick that does bleed" rather than "galli had a playstyle that was taken from people and they're upset about it"

[uncut trellis]

Fr, Gallis can literally hunt Carnos to a degree, bleed would make this worse

[viscid mica]

I mean not really carno charge makes up for it but it is fr that bleed would make them insanely op

[uncut trellis]

Well I’m not wrong. For simple minded people who care that much about bleeding kicks. 👉Austro

[uncut trellis]

Sure, but gallis can run for far longer

[viscid mica]

Can or can’t

Cuz I’d disagree their trot is insanely fast

[uncut trellis]

And they’re fast enough to keep up, even while the carno is charging

[uncut trellis]

Gallis can run for almost 4min straight, Carno can’t even run for half that

[dusky surge]

but like... again, that's not what people are attached to though. you're disconnecting the problem from the actual thing people are concerned about

[viscid mica]

Ahh ye

[dusky surge]

you could give omni an attack that operated EXACTLY like the galli kick down to the last moment and make it a bite or something, and people would still ask for the galli bleed back

because it's not about the bleed on a specific animation, it's about the fact that it's specifically on gallimimus

you could give omni a kick that operates like galli's old kick and people would still ask for galli bleed back

[uncut trellis]

I don’t think people would have batted an eye of it didn’t have bleed in the first place

[dusky surge]

its not about the attack, it's about the animal

[viscid mica]

Tbh pounces that hit head to head should be a kick that applies bleed for omni

[uncut trellis]

Gallis been getting tons of love lately though, especially the new trot, I’m not sure I’m seeing the problem

[uncut trellis]

I think a stun makes more sense, like if the Galli kicked the Omnis head (and only the head)

[dusky surge]

the problem is people had a really really strong tool and had a lot of fun abusing it and are now sad it's gone

[uncut trellis]

How often were people bleeding out opponents as Galli? I still haven’t seen examples, is there a video anywhere?

From when it did have bleed?

[dusky surge]

Very often

It was VERY strong bleed

It was extremely fun to basically turn ceratos into cowering babies

But it was very much overtuned

[uncut trellis]

I haven’t seen a single example of that, and I thought I kept up with this

I need to ask around

[viscid mica]

Galli wary envirma hell

[crimson crater]

https://tenor.com/view/uncanny-emoji-angry-hakayaki-hakayaki-angry-emoji-gif-13101565263917230073

[slim dragon]

@pliant solstice There is already an exhaustion mechanic in the game, it's called the stamina bar

[dusky surge]

what? it was

[crimson crater]

yes, just have galli ptsd

[dusky surge]

thankfully, as a troodon/herrera enjoyer, my experience with gallis remained largely unchanged

hell, i got to eat the ceratos they shredded

[edgy crow]

Based Herrera enjoyer

[iron tree]

We've people claiming galli was op before minmi

Wild

[dusky surge]

it was

like it was REALLY fun but goddamn it was deef overpowered

[iron tree]

I used to play galli a lot. But I've never seen something bleeding out

And I fought dilos

[dusky surge]

that's very strange because galli's bleed was effectively unmatched besides herrera bleed

[cosmic pelican]

Galli had average bleed, it only had above average bleed on spiro

Only things you could bleed out were carnos that were running 24/7

[worthy steeple]

imo even without the bleed galli is still amazing, the trot changes made it so much better as a playable

imo if they will add the bleed back they should make it so gallis kicks apply the bleed only on smaller targets, so it can run around the map bleed out juvies and subs

but running after the fg dinos with its 40km/h trot and slowly bleeding them out would be awful

[hasty coyote]

This is after the bleed nerf: https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx4_4b_gvP5fums27a3wcOY4e7C0F7dh3b?si=2b2meyLqG78mlNMa

And galis bleed was stronger than its damage, carnos would get evaporated in seconds.

Though, imo, removing galis bleed was probably a good idea because it doesn’t need bleed, and bleed only helps Gali run things down in a mixpack.

[eternal iris]

I mean Cerato players kind of deserve that so I'm in favor of it lol

Plus it'd be funny

[steep echo]

It was a test from a long time ago but on norden, I took one raptor bite and rested, then took one galli kick and rested. The galli bleed was stronger than a raptor bite

It was that good so its fair to say it got nerfed hard

[hasty coyote]

You can do that now. This was with 0 bleed.

[eternal iris]

Wait seriously? I need to get some buddies to hop on Galli then lol

[hasty coyote]

Iirc, the kick deals more than Omni bite so it makes sense

[hasty coyote]

Don’t underestimate galis

[steep echo]

The kick is 70 right? I mean the bleed was greater than what you'd expect of a 5 damage difference

[hasty coyote]

I remember it being 85 but I may be thinking of dilo bite, I never memorized kick damage

[eternal iris]

Is it just me or is Omni bite kind of underwhelming? It's got mid damage and is pretty slow. I wouldn't mind them taking a bit of power out of pounce and redistributung it into its bite

[steep echo]

I'm going by numbers provided by Doqi's guide videos

[jade prairie]

once witnessed a galli kill 4 ceras solo. was recently too

[hasty coyote]

That’s probably more accurate

[hasty coyote]

How did it have enough stam and how bad were those ceras 💀

[jade prairie]

the ceras were absolutely terrible and i know at least one of them had an fps of like. 10 and a ping of 160

[steep echo]

I like the bite force where it is now, but I think it could use a good bite speed. And I'll take anything to reduce omni's reliance on pounce just because I don't like pin

[jade prairie]

but still

[hasty coyote]

Honestly I’d be fine with a slight bite speed buff on its own.

[hasty coyote]

They needed to land like 2 hits to kill that Gali lmao

[jade prairie]

yup 💀

[uncut trellis]

I was mostly referring to gallis bleeding out large carnivores, I know they’re fully capable even without bleed

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message 🥹

[raw hinge]

are 90% of this community teno mains or why is everyone so objectively wrong when it comes to tenos being op?

[regal valve]

skill issues

[raw hinge]

no

teno has the powerlevel maia should be at while weighing about half

[worthy steeple]

because they're literally not?

[worthy steeple]

you dont understand how balance works

[raw hinge]

they are literally the only thing in game that i have to fear for my life as carno, the only thing stopping them from running me down is if they lose sight of me.
otherwise they have more running stamina and 5 times my dps so the only way of escaping is breaking line of sight and hoping they dont find you

I dont understand how that is healthy

my last 5 deaths were because of people mixpacking with tenos, and not because i died offensively but because i got hunted to death across half the map by tenos

[swift wind]

increase speed to 60kmph double bite strength double stamina and omni MIGHT be playable

[hasty coyote]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/737090081659027547/1247263390444028006/convert.gif

you want omni to be current carno but worse?

[swift wind]

youre right actually

triple bite strength triple stamina triple hp

fxck it triple smell range whilst we are at it

[raw hinge]

anyone able to address what i said or can you teno fans only ad hominem?

[hasty coyote]

so cera with carno speed?

[swift wind]

sounds about right

and keep agility as it is

[worthy steeple]

you do realize you can simply run away from it? from literally anything

[eager saddle]

I don't think not agreeing with the ''this dinosaur is broken but I refuse to say why'' feedback makes me a teno fan tbh

[worthy steeple]

like if you cant fight the teno just.. ermm dont? you dont have to

next feedback is gonna be:
"dryo is too op cant fight it as my fg cera"

[eager saddle]

if you want people to agree with you, the MINIMUM of what you could say is ''too many attacks'' or ''combo does too much damage''

[worthy steeple]

even that is not true, like teno is fine, its honestly not even close to being op

one of the most well balanced dinos in the game rn

[eager saddle]

I know, it was an example

[raw hinge]

i cant post?

[eager saddle]

don't you main teno? x)

[eager saddle]

I never said that.

[worthy steeple]

hehe, you know too much

[raw hinge]

everytime i write something discord says it cant be posted

[eager saddle]

you cant use vulgar language

[raw hinge]

i didnt

[worthy steeple]

6 hours slowmode in feedback channels

[eager saddle]

^

[raw hinge]

i already put my main concern forward, they are able to run down a carno simply because of the running tsmina on carno being BAD or on teno being too high

ahhh i cant say shite

[hasty coyote]

the main combo of teno, tail slam into kick, deals as much as a single cera charged bite. this thing is honestly on the weaker side if anything

[eager saddle]

then you should add that to your feedback by editing the message

[worthy steeple]

its more than enough to outrun anything in the game

[eager saddle]

example T_T

[raw hinge]

in isloation yes, but not when you have lost 20-30% stamina while fighting something else or running from another pack of 5 tenos

[eager saddle]

but that's not teno's fault

you can get third partied by anything

[worthy steeple]

i mean, if you dont have stamina you dont have stamina, how is that tenos fault?

[eager saddle]

if you get third partied by omni's, you can easily die too

[raw hinge]

yet only teno is a thrid party i have to respect so much as to invalidate carnos existence as a carnivore

its not about teno being at fault

teno doesnt need to be adjusted to make it worse

[hasty coyote]

to be fair, same can be said about anything. Carno can get run down by a cera if it just got out of a fight. Carno can get run down by a stego if it tanked a swing and is going to bleed out.

[raw hinge]

it needs to be adjusted to not be such a threat to carnivores that are just minding their buisiness

[eager saddle]

then it becomes a punching bag...

[edgy crow]

Except it's the same speed-ish as Cera and Carno is the fastest carni in the roster.

[eager saddle]

also, dibble, stego and galli would like to have a word

[hasty coyote]

thats why the majority of its attacks are either rear oriented or require you to not be moving. Thats how they severely limit tenos ability to go on the offensive

[raw hinge]

true, if the hitbox of the kick wasnt so ridiculous

[eager saddle]

uh how do mutations factor into this? Does carno get outsped by those?

[hasty coyote]

if you got 3rd partied and killed, yeah it sucks, but that aint something we can balance around. If a dino is balanced around only 3rd partying fights, how is it ever supposed to survive against a dino with full stats?

[hasty coyote]

the only things teno can kick on the offense are things that are slower than teno. And anything slower than teno can just maul it.

[eager saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

[hasty coyote]

only thing carno is out sped by is gali with speed boost, and a dilo with speed mutation (if the carno doesnt have a speed mutation and doesnt charge)

[eager saddle]

tbf not having the speed mutation is a bad choice :/

and I hate how meta it is :/

[hasty coyote]

tbh, speed mutations are a whole other can of worms that should never have made it to the live game

[raw hinge]

I mean maybe carno needs to be adjusted instead, right now anything that is smaller than a carno has 0 chance against it.
Carno right now is entirely invincible with stamina and absolutely dead without it.
Sure its a way to "balance" it but is it fun for the player and is there a more fun way?
I feel bad when killing something that has no chance of excape as carno and i feel bad when getting killed with no chance of escape.
There is no inbetween

[eager saddle]

well yeah, it's a small game hunter

[edgy crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1329628833518977034/small_game_hunter.gif

[raw hinge]

i know but right now every small game i want to hunt is 100% dead.
every time i get caught with stamina below 60% im 100% dead.
thats not the most fun it can be for both prey and hunter

[hasty coyote]

things have ways to escape, they can abuse carno's low agility by pressing the A and D keys, breaking line of sight, getting on rocks, and using the forest to force carno to constantly accelerate and decelerate. I juked out a carno as a sub dilo and only got down to yellow hp because I used the forest to break line of sight constantly and used trees to stop the carno until it eventually ran out of stam before me.

[eager saddle]

I mean, that is also dependent on the player

[hasty coyote]

If you get caught at half stam out in the open, then yeah, thats your issue. Keep your stam high and run to the forest if something starts chasing you. Make sharp turns to throw them off your tail. There are methods to escape for both sides.

[raw hinge]

i feel like its petty rare that someone manages to juke me in a forest, in the beginning it was hard but i got a good technique that gives me success almost always

[raw hinge]

as a carno your not throwing anyone off with "sharp" turns 😄

[hasty coyote]

I mean like while they don't have line of sight, which is very easy to break because you're much faster. Run over a hill or through some bushes, then make a turn so they keep running forward for you, but you're heading a different direction

[raw hinge]

i know what you mean, problem being that this requires favourable terrain.
It also requires that you find a spot where you can lie down to regen stam, because tenos have way more running stam than a carno.
Problem with lying down as carno that the thing starts huffing and puffing the second you lie down, so staelth is not exactly a strong suit

As a carno right now, you are encouraged to exist on wide open plains, because your prey hes no chance to excape there and you dont break your ankles randomly.
And on a plain with below optimal stamina you are just dead.

[viscid mica]

@raw hinge I’m not trying to be rude but genuinely how many hours do you have and have you ever FG a teno?

[raw hinge]

I have never played teno because I usually dont like to play things that feel broken to me. Also herbis need some gameplay updates because they are boring. I have 260 hours.

[viscid mica]

I’d encourage you to try it and come back about how “op” it is

Because it’s simply not op, it’s got a very high skill cap which allows for players who enjoy it to accel but I’ve seen many awful teno and many god tier teno a high skill cap doesn’t make it op

I’d always recommend playing everything once even if you think it’s OP to see how it feels on the other side

[raw hinge]

I`ll give it a try, but if its unbeatable at a high skill cap it could still be op.

[viscid mica]

It’s still best able at high end you just gotta be high end with what your playing

Plus certain Dino’s need numbers like omni and troodon

Dilo probably need numbers if if it’s high end V high end as some of the best teno know how to not waste stam very well

I mean it is a 1.6T Dino

[raw hinge]

I really cant imagine how a carno would kill a skilled teno, I havent played teno true, but i have tried often enough and i just dont see it happening.
Which is ok actually, carno is not supposed to hunt teno, but teno is also not supposed to hunt carno and that is the lived experience of my entire playtime.

[viscid mica]

Solo carno? Not a chance doesn’t have the kit or mobility for it you’d need at minimum 2 maybe 3 if it’s a top 1% teno

[raw hinge]

thats what i thought.

[viscid mica]

The only way to play it as carno and avoid damage is cycle charging

[raw hinge]

fg vs fg you cant really charge

[viscid mica]

So you’d need #s to distract

[viscid mica]

Tail and head you can still hit and not get stopped

It’s a slow painful fight and 1 mistake can mean your end

[raw hinge]

carno max group 3, teno max group 5
also for some reason finding other carnos is near impossible

at least big ones

[viscid mica]

Group limits are subject to change as more stuff gets added herbi by default get bigger group limits

Like groups are maxed at 10 rn for tiny tiers and 8 for smalls

I can imagine as we see bigger stuff those numbers might increase to meet the necessary requirements

I can’t imagine allo being only 2 people lol

[raw hinge]

The problem really is, and i dont think anyone hasnt seen this: tenos actively hunting and 3rd partying,
Not defensively, but just to ruin other peoples dino that actually was hard to grow, with their teno that can just afk grow in a bush with a 90% success chance.

[viscid mica]

Every herbi does it there aren’t any carni in weight class to compete yet

Dibbles and stego are not innocent either

And stego can do up to 2050 damage with one of its moves

[raw hinge]

There needs to be something that discourages this aggresive behavoir in tenos, and its only really tenos that display this behaviour, maybe sometimes pachys but they dont really have the strength

yes but stego is slow enough that it isnt a problem

[viscid mica]

Pachy need a buff big time but ya id agree teno are over aggressive it’s the community they’ve made they’ll chill once bigger stuff shows up and being injured from fighting constantly

Or maybe they won’t

Who knows

[raw hinge]

i fear that the bigger carnis will just allow the bigger carnis to be fine, but carno will still not be viable, even less so then

[viscid mica]

I mean I can say if the skill level is equal and the numbers are roughly the same a dilo group can easily wipe a teno group off the map

[viscid mica]

Run away

Your over 10km faster

[raw hinge]

i cant run away from food forever

[viscid mica]

Find safer food XD

[worthy steeple]

carno is super viable, you just need to practice more

[raw hinge]

sure i wont die to other dinos but a carnos gotta eat

[viscid mica]

or get some freinds to log on and help you scrap

[worthy steeple]

carno is one of the only dinos in the game that can choose its fights

[viscid mica]

^

[raw hinge]

except, if you already chose a fight and then a teno comes from somwehere, then your dead with no counterplay

[viscid mica]

Now mind you if it’s 1-1 and the skill level is the same a teno will win

The solo life do be dubious

[raw hinge]

my problem really isnt surviving and winning fights as carno, i just crossed the map 3 times and got like 20-25 kills in that life.
my problem is that i have to constantly fear tenos

[worthy steeple]

and like 3 carnos in plains can kill almost anything, its something you should fear imo, even as the teno. you can dodge one attack but there are 3 carnos constantly charging you, you're forced to find a jungle or a rock or they will kill you

same with the cera, if carnos find you in plains they will murder you in seconds

[viscid mica]

I mean your a solo carno that fear is justified

[raw hinge]

its literally the only thing that can kill me anymore, since i know how to chose my fights.
but if the fight choses you at the wrong time ther is no counterplay

[viscid mica]

Like it’s not like you’d face a Rex as a solo allo you’d justifiably be afraid of it

This is the way of the isle

Especially if your not a PvP swif

Survival is just that

Like troodons are scared of galli for GOOD REASONS

When I play omni carnos make me nervous

[worthy steeple]

look, tenos are a lot slower than you are thats why they should have an advantage in a fight against the carnos, +they're bleeders and you have negative bleed resistance, + they're heavier

[raw hinge]

yes all true, but a teno should not hunt carnivorous dinosaurs for fun, it doesnt help its survival

[viscid mica]

If ima deino I don’t mess with stegos

[viscid mica]

Teno moment for sure but I mean grow a teno and tell me you don’t find yourself wanting to chase stuff around

[raw hinge]

i understand and agree with all of that, but it is not right that a teno is hunting carnivores for fun is it?

[viscid mica]

They want PvP

[worthy steeple]

what exactly they're hunting tho?

[viscid mica]

Like I said grow a teno and you’ll see why they want smoke

[worthy steeple]

every carnivore in the game exept the cera is faster and on top of that there are million times the amount of ceras on the map compared to tenos

[raw hinge]

everything that is unlucky enough to cross their path

[viscid mica]

Anything less than a super mixpack or large pack won’t really mess with you

[worthy steeple]

they literally cant hunt carnivores, even if they want to

[viscid mica]

Nerf cera vomit fr

[raw hinge]

the literally can and will, have you played this game before?

[worthy steeple]

dont have speed for that + all attacks are behind

[viscid mica]

Basically what he is saying is run away

[worthy steeple]

yes

if you cant fight the teno just run away, they cant chase you, you're faster

if you dont want to fight you dont have to

[raw hinge]

and what i explained in 5 different ways and you guys still dont understand is: running away doesnt always work

[viscid mica]

Plus your trot as carno is faster if I’m not mistaken or the same speed (FG)

[raw hinge]

teno can chase because they are lamost as fast and have better running stamina

no teno tror is faster

[worthy steeple]

if you dont have the stamina to run away thats 100% on you, what do you expect to happen?

[viscid mica]

10km is not almost as fast

Plus teno can’t track

Break LOS and find bush

[hasty coyote]

(nearly a 20kph difference while charging)

[raw hinge]

(use chargin to gain distance on fg carno and tell me how it went)

[viscid mica]

Charging burns stam like a mf do

[viscid mica]

Well actually

[worthy steeple]

but you run the same distance

its 15% speed boost and 15% more stamina cost afaik

[viscid mica]

True true

[hasty coyote]

@raw hinge @viscid mica Charge now has as much stamina efficiency as sprinting, so you will cover the same distance with the same amount of stam. If you're trying to run, charge is your best option mos the time.

[viscid mica]

I mean bomb I think individual we all have nearly or over 1k hour I dunno how much cheesy and rap have but between my 2 acc I got easily over 2.5k

I’m telling you it’s not as hard as you think, I think you phyced yourself out about tenos

[raw hinge]

the more you know, i thought it would be less efficient

[viscid mica]

=

[worthy steeple]

enough hours to be a confident teno main👹

[viscid mica]

I can see that you give teno main energy

[worthy steeple]

LMAO

https://tenor.com/view/owo-love-cat-meow-heart-gif-4559932780455511834

teno is my little baby boy, i love it

[viscid mica]

I CANT WAIT FOR ALBERTO TO DROP

SO I CAN BEAT THE NEGLECT ALIGATIONS

[raw hinge]

I mean my last deaths have still all been to teno 3rd partying, every time its a teno coming out of a bush midfight and i know, damn im dead

[viscid mica]

That do be teno activity

[raw hinge]

everything else in game can be avoided with skill tho, but not teno 3rd parties

i can avoid heras and deinos with skill, i can choose my fights against those that are stronger than me, but its always just a throw of the dice if a teno wants me dead or not.

[viscid mica]

I really disagree

Like we’ve said JUST LEAVE

[raw hinge]

but I CANT

i literally cant

[viscid mica]

Skill issue

Like I can’t say anything else at this point you’ve convinced yourself it can’t be avoided

[raw hinge]

no, game design issue

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

lmaoo

wait what server are you playing on?

[raw hinge]

petits

[hasty coyote]

for carno, I do understand the sentiment that even though you are faster, you won't cover as much distance as most dinos, so just running in a straight line doesnt work like with most faster dinos. For carno, you want to break line of sight and get them off your tail. There are many methods to doing so, but it is highly terrain dependant, so your playstyle should also be highly terrain dependant.

Are you right next to a forest? then sure, you can afford to drop a bit low on stam because you can get out relatively quickly and most players will lose you or just not try and follow in the first place.
Are you out in the open of highlands? then maybe you want to keep your stam high incase someone does try to run you down. Also keep a method of escape and your eyes open for threats.

[viscid mica]

Deino are more of a roll of dice than teno ever will be

[worthy steeple]

hmm i see

[viscid mica]

Ah yes the server where people can grow and sell FGs

[worthy steeple]

petits is not even that harsh tbh, people are way friendly compared to officials

[viscid mica]

FR

Also 3rd partying on petit is against their rules report the tenos

Bruh moment

[worthy steeple]

its a pretty good system. and its also not pay to win, you literally cannot pay to get the dino

you only get the points by selling your fg dino

[viscid mica]

Na it’s fair I just find it funny cuz that’s what it’s known for

Plus social score like china XD

Weirdest system don’t understand

[hasty coyote]

that is truly unfortunate, but sadly it aint a thing that can really be balanced around for any dino. I have 3rd partied carnos as dilos so they had no stam to get away. I have done the same as pachy so they literally can't run away. I have even seen stegos 3rd party pretty much any carnivore (they never expect the random bush stego).

[worthy steeple]

DUDE LMAOO

it says a lot about the player, like if you nest a lot you get the social score, if you kill the juvies or kos you will become the bad guy and eveyone will know it

i really like that system

and outcast system is amazing, it really punishes kos players

[viscid mica]

Me a KOS pachy player

[worthy steeple]

that kinda forces people to be a little more friendly and chill, which is amazing

[raw hinge]

I still feel like teno is currently encouraged to play that way, because for its speed it has insane running stamina, can jump to save itself, has extremely high dps and bleed, can stunlock inexperienced people, it litteraly is not threatend right now, thats why tenos act like thids

[viscid mica]

I mean I ain’t even doing the killing knee destroyer 5000 and dip

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/pachy-pachycephlasaurus-theislelucypachy-lucy-theisle-gif-13827879390397098733

[worthy steeple]

the only realy way to play as pachy imo, you cant play as a pachy and be chill

that just doest sound right

pachy players were always like this, even in legacy xd

[raw hinge]

oh god pachy players roleplaying their dino, the trauma

[worthy steeple]

what makes teno so special tho? anyone can third party

like the dibble is almost the same speed but a lot more dangerous

cera is the same speed as teno

[raw hinge]

yes but when a maia tries to third party you just laugh, stego same, deino same, hera same, galli and so on...

[worthy steeple]

you dont lol, maia is a lot more dangerous, maia is the thing you should fear the most lol

[viscid mica]

Yes I too enjoyed spending 30 minutes getting 150+ hits to kill a Rex

[worthy steeple]

not afk maia, the good one

[raw hinge]

teno is the only species reliably palyed by people who actually wanted to play trex

pachy sometimes too maybe

[worthy steeple]

so you're telling me you cant outrun the teno that can only use its attacks defensively as a carno that is 20km/h faster and can outrun it easily?

[viscid mica]

Teno players are just irl roid rage

[raw hinge]

ive told you before, this is a strawman argument at this point

teno has more running stam

teno has a kit that enxourages aggresive play

teno doesnt get punished for low stam as hard as canro does

if a low stam carno gets spotted by a teno hes dead

[viscid mica]

Wdym they can’t use the only 2 useful weapons if low stam

[raw hinge]

except if its the 1 teno that doesnt kos everyone

[viscid mica]

Do they exist!?

[raw hinge]

turn damage to stamina perk and the second carno bites you you give him a kick, carno will tehn bleed out or get out dpsed by you

[viscid mica]

Tactile and gastro can sugma *****

Very op I do agree

But that’s perk not Dino

It happens with stegos too etc why stegos are never worth the fight

[worthy steeple]

wdym? you're 20km/h faster

[worthy steeple]

if a low stam teno gets spotted by a carno it dies as well lol. not like you can fight its charges back with your alt attacks

[raw hinge]

you take damage once, stamina back, climb on rock -> profit

[worthy steeple]

its more of a mutation issue and its massively nerfed on petits as well

and again, if you cant kill the teno DONT FIGHT IT, you dont have to

[hasty coyote]

if you have an issue with teno, then you're gonna have a bigger issue with like 1/3rd of our roster. Teno has so many limiters on it attacks that make it difficult offensively unlike many other dinos. Any other dino can do the exact thing you are saying but worse, and many of them do.

If your issue is with 3rd partying, then cera is jus the epitome of what you hate. Take everything you dislike about teno, but make its attacks even stronger offensively. Its charged bite drains stam, food, and water which makes you bleed more, it already deals high bleed, it has the ability to track, it has a major defense buff around dead bodies, its attacks are forward facing and cost no stam, charged bite deals as much as a tail slam and a kick while, stuns with vomit for even more bites, has a high scent range to find a body, can chug a whole body with 0 consequence (just to make sure you don't get it), and has just about as much stam, speed, and swim speed as teno. Cera is everything you dislike about teno but worse in every way.

So whats the issue with teno in particular other than you just got unlucky and its a herbivore? Because I completely understand being annoyed, but teno does not need more nerfs.

[raw hinge]

that is the point you just dont get, how much experience do you have on carno?
YOU CANT CHOSE WHEN A MIXPACKING TENO DESCENDS ON YOU, and you cant run from everything forever, sometimes you need food.
Food is actually hard to come by as a carni.

[worthy steeple]

carno is my favorite carnivore, trust me i got enough experience, thats why everything you're saying sounds so lame to me, because carno is good, its just you problem

[raw hinge]

teno is a herbi, its never low on critical ressources and can therefore much better chose its fights and waste ressources on pointless fights.
Ceras dont have that luxury

[worthy steeple]

with that amount of ai on the map? its not hard at all, i see people sustaining 9 carno pack with ai just laying around them all the time

especially on petits with 240 people, how in a world you can starve

[raw hinge]

ai is broken as hell, there is no ai the map, not on petits

[worthy steeple]

240 players

if you're starving with 240 players on the map thats on you

its literally impossible

[raw hinge]

you are arguing in bad faith cheesy you are erecting strawmn after strawman

[worthy steeple]

huh

[viscid mica]

I’m so confused you play on petit and yet don’t realize
1.mix packing against rules you can report
2. Thirst partying against rules report

[raw hinge]

none of that is against rules

[worthy steeple]

lol

[hasty coyote]

ceras can literally eat everything and can smell anything within like 2 miles. my dude is not starving. Plus again, you just seem to be mad at 3rd partying. the issue there is not with teno, because if you nerf teno, those people will just swap to a different dino and do the exact same thing.

[edgy crow]

And then Teno will be unable to actually fight

[worthy steeple]

tbf i only third party to kill the ceras or help some herbis

[worthy steeple]

yes

[raw hinge]

its literally not against the rules for herbis to mixpack and 3rd party

[viscid mica]

Brother needs to read petits rules

[worthy steeple]

only herbis with herbis

not with the carnivores

[viscid mica]

Being in a herd isn’t mixpacking that’s carni and herbi

Makes so much sense

Bro is targeting large herds

As a solo carno

[raw hinge]

im not afraid to attack 5 pachys its true

[worthy steeple]

good for you i guess

[raw hinge]

im afraid of tthe teno that hears a cry and travels half the map to hunt me down

[edgy crow]

Ok? Pachy is infamously underpowered rn

[worthy steeple]

so your complain is basically: "it can kill me thats why it should be nerfed, it should be helpless, because its a herbivore and should not stand a chance against my carno even when its out of stam"

[viscid mica]

Pachy are weak af rn bruh

[raw hinge]

i was not boasting

[viscid mica]

Super inconsistent breaks, slow, low health and again slow

[edgy crow]

Then what were you doing

[viscid mica]

Non the less going after herbi is always extremely risky

[worthy steeple]

tbf pachy alwasys breaks the carno on first attack, its the cera and teno it struggles with, which is fine because it can outrun them and should not hunt them (yeah i will ignore the speed mutations, they shouldnt be in the game)

[raw hinge]

we are not arguing in good faith anymore, ill stop it here.
i learned at least a litlle bit about carno stamina when charging thx for that.
ill hunt your asses to extenction on teno until you share my opinion. 😄

[edgy crow]

do I need to post the small game hunter gif again

[viscid mica]

Out run teno and cera ha that’s funny

[worthy steeple]

yeah i wish speed buffs were removed lol

[edgy crow]

pain

[worthy steeple]

alright, ill be on eu4 soon, as the teno, come, you can bring your friends as well

[viscid mica]

Experience deems your opinion inaccurate, simply because one species struggles against it doesn’t make it op sorry you feel it’s hostile GL in your future hunts

@wanton edge vomit needs a nerf the rest of its kit is fine as is

[worthy steeple]

or actually, i got legendary teno on petits, you might find me

[viscid mica]

Legendary tf?

[worthy steeple]

friend gave it to me😭 🥰

shes the best

[viscid mica]

What is a legendary

[worthy steeple]

golden skin

[viscid mica]

Ah like a shiny Pokémon?

[worthy steeple]

YES LOL

[viscid mica]

Is it like those translucent skins I’ve seen

If so add to the list of reasons I don’t play petit

[worthy steeple]

no, its not ugly

[viscid mica]

Mainly cuz, I like third partying I think it’s key part of survival aspect

[viscid mica]

Send a SS when you get a chance

[worthy steeple]

you should, its the best sserver

[worthy steeple]

wait let me find it

[viscid mica]

So basically it’s a regular skin BUT YELLOW

[worthy steeple]

yes

its not crazy glowing skin hehe

[viscid mica]

I enjoy raw survival as much as mass mixpacks annoy me

The joy of slaughtering mixpackers as dilo and stego is a feeling that can’t be described

[worthy steeple]

i mean yeah, but petits is just better experience, pountine fixed like almost every balance mistake the devs made and game is a lot more enjoyable

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

yeah, but its always better to just play on the server without mixpacks

[viscid mica]

Like what

[edgy crow]

Are any dino stats changed at all?

[viscid mica]

^

[worthy steeple]

like meta mutations, overpacking, mixpacking, megaherding, kos, cheaters

[worthy steeple]

no, i think they cant do that yet

[worthy steeple]

like you wont find that on petits and thats amazing, that makes the game actually playable

and it has better playerbase as well

[viscid mica]

Fair fair

But 3rd party rules

Or 2 call rules

[edgy crow]

Unfortunately it is an eu server and I am au 😔

[worthy steeple]

it deosnt have that

[viscid mica]

^ plus I’m NA

[worthy steeple]

its low rules server

[worthy steeple]

noooo :(

[viscid mica]

You sure? Cuz from what I’m told it does

[worthy steeple]

no, it doesnt xd, never had

[viscid mica]

Meh I’m NA in the end

[worthy steeple]

ping is not that bad, my us friends are playing on petits with the good ping

[viscid mica]

I’m a stickler

[worthy steeple]

i had to goodle what stickler is lmao

[viscid mica]

Oh hell na it’s but a child

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message this ain’t even a reasonable nerf, just outright butchering a playable

[edgy crow]

do it it'll be epic

[worthy steeple]

even i didnt like the nerf and that says a lot lmao..

[elfin night]

I may have reconsidered the galli thing, but man is that thing f cheap. I was killing herras and there was nothing they could do about it. Running kick, alt kick, alt kick and they are dead a fraction of second after regaining control of their character

only teno has that stunlock potential in the herbivore/prey roster

[shadow vortex]

Discover an Omni pin then

[worthy steeple]

it just punishes the cera for successful attack, we already have that for the teno and thats horrible

[elfin night]

I agree. At most I would turn into a defensive tool by slowing down your running speed OR making some stamina cost. But stopping in place would be so bad

[viscid mica]

Herrera shoulda been more careful mans

[worthy steeple]

slowing it down to 38-39 would be fine tho, i wanted trot speed before, but after some testing i decided that its horrible idea

[elfin night]

maybe, still probably hard for the herras with how quiet galli is combined with that speed

and for two creatures that have nearly the same growth time... 💀

[worthy steeple]

but slowing it down a little bit might justify 350dmg

[crimson crater]

herrera can 1 tap gallis tbf

[elfin night]

yeah just a little to the point where it is noticeable

[elfin night]

well yeah, that's a good point and part of why I sort of backed off with that. But there's something about knockdown stunlock/pinning down attacks that makes them feel particularly unpleasant

[crimson crater]

yea i’m not a fan of it either, just cheap extra shots. but i feel like its fine in this matchup. the knockdown prevents the herrera from getting away and back up its tree

[viscid mica]

Roughly same weight too

[swift wind]

anything to fw herre players is a good thing

[elfin night]

not at all

[elfin night]

herra is just a noob stomper most of the time tho

[worthy steeple]

jesus christ when will people stop writing the “revert the carno changes” feedbacks

it wasn’t good, it was not good playable before, one charge was taking away half of your stamina bar, now it’s an amazing brawler

[edgy crow]

sm*ll game hunter

[viscid mica]

Carno pre nerf was far too op

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
Teno is in a fantastic place and it took ages to get here, you can get rekt by one or completely outplay one. Easy to bait yet punishing enough when it catches you that you approach with caution.

[worthy steeple]

and somehow it was horrible as a playable at the same time

[maiden temple]

I dare say this is the most balanced dino we have atm

[worthy steeple]

it is

[maiden temple]

Lawd it was, relying so hard on charges was really not fun

Swerve mid-charge to throw people off, then charge again. There was no avoiding it

[worthy steeple]

teno players unite🥹

[viscid mica]

Most balanced is a wild and unbased statement that I shall not accept

[maiden temple]

I play it, and play against it. Maybe it's just me but I don't struggle unless there are more than 2 that I have to solo

[viscid mica]

Depending on what you play it’s either dangerous or a cake walk

I do think it’s slightly underpowered weight to grow time wise but the rest of it is fine

If you want most balanced Dibble is my personal take

[maiden temple]

It's not underpowered at all

[viscid mica]

It’s extremely weak when compared to anything its weight

[maiden temple]

Compared to what, a cera/carno?

[viscid mica]

Cera and teno

Stuff in its weight bracket

[maiden temple]

You can roll a cera all day, as long as you're not running with 300 ping

[viscid mica]

I’m not expecting it to punch up but it’s counter shouldn’t be stand still and alt bite

[viscid mica]

^

Stand still and alt bite fee HS damage all day

I’ve never lost a cera too anything less than 3+ carno groups when facing carno

[maiden temple]

You only need to land 1 tail to pretty much end the fight, I think that's strong enough

[viscid mica]

!?????

[maiden temple]

Once a cera is on the floor you have time for 2 head kicks. That's over 800 damage

What is he gonna do, call a healer

[viscid mica]

Teno V cera sure we talking canro V cera

But I mean teno V cera if same skill is a pretty even fight

Carno needs to be a lot better or in a group

[maiden temple]

Carno is so pathetic rn you'd have to be ambushed well and maybe half blind to lose

[viscid mica]

A small weight increase for carno not changing its knock down cap or anything would be fine like 1500 max

[maiden temple]

Carno was fine with its 1800 imo, it was just overtuned with the charge it had. It was always counterable though as you could catch them mid-charge

Plus they bleed a ton since they just can't stop

I see the direction for carno and making it a small game hunter is fine, but it does feel very weak now

[worthy steeple]

they will change carnos growth time

[viscid mica]

This would also be acceptable

[worthy steeple]

tbf it’s not that weak, but it’s 20km/h faster so sounds fair

[viscid mica]

I’d prefer if everything in roughly the same weight range can KINDA FIGHT even if one is clearly weaker than another

[worthy steeple]

they can tho, like carno vs cera in plains is more or less fair and even carno sided id say, vs teno is fine only if you can bait well

it would be super unfair if carno was strong like cera and teno but 20km/h faster

2 carnos vs one cera in plains is almost impossible to win for the cera

[viscid mica]

Just a smol weight wouldn’t break it and would allow it to handle its self a lot better

[worthy steeple]

so it has to run to the forest

[worthy steeple]

it won’t change anything, if you can’t win with 1300 you won’t win with 1500

[maiden temple]

Carno is still the most dangerous thing you'll encounter while growing just about every playable, so its role is very tied to hunting everything but before they are too big

[worthy steeple]

it would break the balance for sure tho, current carno shouldn’t be 1500 or bigger

[viscid mica]

It’ll be a 1 bite difference which means they can get a extra charge or 2 in

[worthy steeple]

yes, that’s for sure

[maiden temple]

Maybe we just need to let go of the past where it was a brawler

Allo will take that spot

hopefully

[viscid mica]

Allo will rule the carni world

[worthy steeple]

idk, it’s unnecessary, i would rather want them to change the bleed

[worthy steeple]

but carno is a brawler right now

[viscid mica]

Until Alberto or Sucho drop allo will probably be (not including apex’s) the most dominant carni by far

[worthy steeple]

it’s one of the best i’d say

[maiden temple]

Ehh the skidding animation still hurts me when attempting to bait and bite

[worthy steeple]

i expect sucho to be too slow to actually be dangerous

idk about alberto tho

[viscid mica]

Prolly slower than allo but certainly fast enough to be scary plus bro will be almost stego sized

[edgy crow]

Alberto is gonna be a menace

[viscid mica]

If it’s not faster or as fast as allo imma rage

[maiden temple]

It will be fun to watch deinos unite again to take out suchos

[worthy steeple]

yeah i expect allos and albertos rule

[viscid mica]

CANT WAIT TO NOT BEAT THE NEGLECT ALLEGATIONS

[viscid mica]

I wouldn’t mess with a 8T croc on Sucho

[worthy steeple]

tbf it was ridiculous in legacy, i want it to be slightly slower than the allo in evrima

[maiden temple]

I just know there will be groups just looking to fight any deino they can

[viscid mica]

Na legacy just had super buggy hitboxes so you where a dam apex hunter

[viscid mica]

Me and the boyz

[worthy steeple]

like allberto in legacy was 39km/h it’s like almost the utahs speed,
(allo was 36 btw)

[viscid mica]

Ngl I’m growing a deino with full deino PvP build just to hunt cani spawn camping deino

[worthy steeple]

alberto and theri were one of the most unbalanced dinos in the game

[maiden temple]

I wonder if allo will be balanced around stego, like a natural counter

[viscid mica]

I mean so long as Alberto is faster that what we woulda called sub Rex stage in legacy I’ll be happy

I seek to DESTROY THE CHILDREN

[worthy steeple]

tbf sub rex was pretty slow in legacy, even its ambush was like 43 or 44

[viscid mica]

It was fast enough to be a threat to all mid sized carni EXCET THE ONE THE ONLY THE MOST BROKEN HITBOX HAVER IN EXISTENCE WITH NO TAIL

[maiden temple]

It should be fast, with a growth curve that doesn't make it super heavy quickly

[worthy steeple]

i expect it to be balanced around fighting the dibbles, since its the only herbivore around its size that can’t outrun it

[maiden temple]

lmao yeah the only time I tried legacy I was killed by rex's ass

[worthy steeple]

realistically i expect allo to kill the stego only in packs

[viscid mica]

Rex is set to have like 7 different play styles

[viscid mica]

Oh bro I got a video hold up

[maiden temple]

Good, we love variety

[maiden temple]

Fair enough, dibbles need culling too

I hate their head attack hitboxes, it hits from waaay too far

[viscid mica]

https://youtu.be/K90MVwWjwms?si=VdgngOTgTMnkvQCE

[maiden temple]

Cera also does this

[edgy crow]

TWO TONNE DIBBLE

[viscid mica]

RIP THAT ONE ALLOS N-Ts

[worthy steeple]

not really it was slower than the allo, both ambush and sprint

[viscid mica]

Dilo greatest dibble hunters

[maiden temple]

yh there is nothing that can't be dilo'd on land

[worthy steeple]

i’ll watch it, but if it’s irl facts i doubt they matter tbh

[viscid mica]

It is but it’s all funny stego stuff plus RIP Hubert the allo that never stood a chance

Never to have kids

Forever alone

[worthy steeple]

oh it’s the one that got the ball shot? lmao💀💀💀

poor allo

[viscid mica]

Fr fr

[maiden temple]

[worthy steeple]

i’ve seen an art with those 2 fighting

[viscid mica]

Stego where ops fr

[worthy steeple]

poor allo oh

[viscid mica]

The fact the bones exist is even better

Forget dying during combat they leave you with 3 foot deep feet 1 foot wide side pieces

Ain’t no coming back from that

[worthy steeple]

😭😭😭

and people complain when they’re getting one shotted by something 5 times its size

[dusky surge]

i missed the part where someone said tenontosaurus is the most OP dino in the game wtf

[worthy steeple]

you have to read the entire conversation now, tho i do not recommend to do that

[hasty coyote]

They were saying its op because it can 3rd party people and they died 3 times to a teno running in from nowhere as their carno had low stam

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

this one is also really funny tho

fights animal almost 3 times its size, that's also far faster on land, as an arboreal ambush predator
dies
"nerf galli"

[elfin night]

I was the one killing herras 😭

it just feels like downright bullying that you can land three hits on someone and they are locked into an animation completely defenseless. But as I said above I sort of changed my mind when considering that herra can do almost the same to galli

[dusky surge]

that, and herrera has a surefire defence

just... climb a tree lol

or dive if you have no other option

[eager saddle]

@oblique hull I think you posted in the wrong channel. Your suggestion is in phase three requests but it looks more like a balance feedback

[oblique hull]

Ok

[oblique hull]

I remove it for balanced one

[eager saddle]

Nice👍🏻

[eternal iris]

Anyone feel free to discuss why Teno should be able to jump

Because it really just doesn't make sense

I'll leave this here

Who can jump?
Hypsi 20kg ✅
Ptera 45kg ✅
Troodon 60kg ✅
Beipi 90kg ✅
Dryo 130kg ✅
Herrera 175kg ✅
Galli 425kg ✅
Omni 450kg ✅
Pachy 500kg ✅
Dilo 700kg ❌
Cerato 1300kg ❌
Carno 1300kg ❌
Teno 1600kg ✅
Diablo 3 tons ❌
Maia 3.7 tons ❌
Stego 6 tons ❌
Deino 8 tons ❌

[dusky surge]

the three in between are therapods with less stability and balance to land safely after a jump, if we wanna talk "making sense realisticly"

the other, better explanation is game balance/fun. Teno is an all-rounder with many ways to fight/flee, while not doing anything particularly superbly

[eternal iris]

I didn't say anything about it being "realistic" or not for starters.

The second part also isn't true and wouldn't argue for it having the ability to jump. Teno absolutely does something well, it is really good at brawling. It can defend itself comfortably in a skill based matchup against both of the big predators on the current roster.

If it were added to the roster now rather than when Evrima launched it likely wouldnt even have the ability to jump

[dusky surge]

i dont really see a reason to not let teno jump besides realism

like there's nothing particularly wrong with it imho

[eternal iris]

Gave some reasons in my comment in #balance-feedback

The issue is it gives something so large and capable the ability to rock camp like a small tier

[dusky surge]

might be me but i genuinely dont see the harm

something as "big and capable" as maia is also faster than omni, why don't we make a fuss about that?

Troodon is smaller than herrera yet can't jump as high and its jump costs more

so on, so forth

[eternal iris]

Those points have nothing to do with my comment

We can talk about those if you want, but they have no baring on if Teno should be able to jump or not

[dusky surge]

i dont see the harm in an animal being versatile in its survival approach. there will be other animals of that size tier that cannot jump. Teno already is a rather barebones animal, simply having its gimmick be it does everything decent

it swims good, it trots good, its speed is okay, it can fight decently well, it has pretty good stamina, and it can jump, be it for traversal or escaping means

teno already isn't very unique, the jump is basically the only thing it has that seperates it from its size tier and makes it actually provide something that the others can't, and overall is a rather harmless feature given how it costs a fair bit of stamina and doesn't really take it very far

[crimson crater]

for a dinosaur designed to stand its ground does it need to be evasive? its fast enough to run from things that can kill it anyway

[dusky surge]

you want a dinosaur designed to stand its ground? it's not teno

it can stand its ground, but that's not all its supposed to do

it was literally designed under the idea of versatility

dibble is a creature that stands its ground

[eternal iris]

Rock camping and safelogging from things that cant jump isn't fun or interesting. It's cheap and frustrating

[crimson crater]

never said that. my point is that it dosent need it, and no its not taking away its niche/identity

[dusky surge]

a cera's vomit isn't fun or interesting, it's cheap and frustrating it, but removing it just makes the cera less unique and takes away from the animal without giving back

[eternal iris]

There is counterplay to the bite, just dont get bit or run. How do you counterplay jumping on a rock and safelogging?

[crimson crater]

teno is hands down the most versatile dino when it comes to combat

[eternal iris]

There is nothing you can do. It just escapes for free, when most predators already find it difficult to take down in a 1v1

[dusky surge]

yea, because it can choose to fight, flee or a combo or both. Versatility is literally baked into its kit at all points

if our way of "balancing" is just removing features from dinosaurs that allow them to interact with their environment in unique ways because we decide they don't deserve those features, that's pretty sad

[crimson crater]

yea i’m just not a fan of it being so evasive and strong at the same time, it can’t be good at everything and have a “get out of jail” free card

[crimson crater]

cerato was gonna get a jump at some point but it didn’t, i don’t see anyone complaining about that

[dusky surge]

Was this ever confirmed?

[eternal iris]

And you also wouldnt see anyone complaining if Teno was released today without the ability to jump

[dusky surge]

Because I'm pretty sure it was never going to get a jump

[crimson crater]

not confirmed but it was animated

[dusky surge]

They also animated Troodon sparring with a dibble

So I guess that was going to be added too

The Troodon was also winning the spar

[crimson crater]

some things gets scrapped and others are done for the fun of it ig

[cosmic pelican]

Falling anination =/= jumping animation

[thorn mountain]

DUDE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDED ASAP

[dusky surge]

I'm just not a fan of removing features and giving nothing in return. Just stripping an animal of a mechanic because it's unworthy

[crimson crater]

just give teno a proper and fun niche, that jump being its whole identity is ridiculous

[dusky surge]

Never said it was

[cosmic pelican]

Rip the dude who spent hours animating that jump lol

[crimson crater]

forgot to mention, it should be compensated ofc

[eternal iris]

I also suggested losing the ability after a certain weight, if it losing jump is such a detriment to its identity

[crimson crater]

sounds fair

[dusky surge]

Then wouldn't that make your proposed problem even worse. If teno can jump while a juvi, why can't cera, or carno?

Then why can't literally every single dinosaur they add that hypothetically could be that light

Stego jump as a freshspawn or something

[worthy steeple]

lmao another “remove tenos ability” feedback, when will you guys stop..

[dusky surge]

Nah, this is new

No one has asked to remove a whole ability before as far as I can recall

[worthy steeple]

someone was asking to remove the stuns

[dusky surge]

oh lol

[worthy steeple]

xd

[crimson crater]

part of its identity like u said

[eternal iris]

So do you have an actual reason or is that just it?

[crimson crater]

if herrera can climb why can’t omni and austro

[eternal iris]

Because thats pretty garbage discourse

[dusky surge]

Omni was actually intended to get a climb at somepoint

Unsure if those plans are still in place

[crimson crater]

yea but do you think it should?

[dusky surge]

Honestly, I think it'd be cool

[worthy steeple]

i missed the conversation, but here’s the thing, the best thing herbivore can do is not fight at all, escape the fight, that’s why teno has its jump, to escape. removing it is just another nerf.

i’m surprised you guys care about the jump, like how is that important to you?

[dusky surge]

It's described as a scramble up small obstacles, nothing like herrera's ability to comfortably remain in a tree

[crimson crater]

it would but it shouldn’t imo

[worthy steeple]

there’s a reason why galli/pachy/dryo can sneak, they’re not hunters, they don’t sneak to ambush, they sneak to hide.

same way the teno doesn’t use its jump to pounce, like omni does, it mainly uses it to escape the fights, something herbivore should do.

[eternal iris]

How are you going to drop in here saying things like "lmao another “remove tenos ability” feedback, when will you guys stop.." when you haven't even read the suggestion

I lay out the reasons in the suggestion itself.

[worthy steeple]

i read half of it, dw

[dusky surge]

I just think people treat this game too much like a fighting game. If a tenonto climbed on a rock, good for it, it gets to live, that's what matters. If it dies before it gets the chance, sucks to suck

If an omni scrambles up a small tree to avoid a carnotaurus, good for it

[worthy steeple]

and removing its ability to jump is like the most ridiculous thing you guys suggested in a while, it’s least thing you should be worried about

[dusky surge]

If it runs out of stam halfway and slides down to its death, sucks to suck

[eternal iris]

You dont make suggestion based on a subjective hierarchy of "things to worry about"

You can give feedback about anything in the game

[iron tree]

solution: buff stego

[worthy steeple]

i didn’t say you can’t. you can, but it doesn’t make it less ridiculous

[eternal iris]

Give stego the ability to jump

[iron tree]

make stego faster

[crimson crater]

“it gets to live thing” can be done without the jump

[eternal iris]

I think if the stego jumps up on the rock, good for it, it gets to live

[worthy steeple]

lets remove pteras ability to fly, because it can fly away from me so i won’t be able to kill it :(

[eternal iris]

Nice strawman

👍

[worthy steeple]

let’s remove beipis ability to swim, it’s already super fast on land

[iron tree]

let's remove stego

[crimson crater]

beipi is 32kmh

[worthy steeple]

why would you even take what i say seriously

[crimson crater]

there’s a difference between removing an animals entire niche vs removing tenos jump

[worthy steeple]

it’s literally the same type of a feedback you posted

[worthy steeple]

removing ability vs removing ability

[eternal iris]

No point discussing with someone who has no intention of being objective or even trying to understand the topic. Just coming in here to muddy the conversation

[worthy steeple]

both important for survival as well

[worthy steeple]

“no point discussing with someone who disagrees with us”

i came here, gave you the reason why the feedback you suggested is arguably bad and now you don’t want to discuss it with me, good for you i guess

[eternal iris]

Ahh yes by immediately handwaving, strawmanning, and saying you only read half of the suggestion 👍

[worthy steeple]

half of the conversation, not the suggestion, read my messages

[iron tree]

I can't wait for trike slaughtering stegos!!!

[eternal iris]

I think you should read your messages

[worthy steeple]

i thought you were talking about the suggestion in the discussion lol

tho it doesn’t matter, i read it whole, don’t worry

[eternal iris]

And heres the "feedback" you came in here with

[worthy steeple]

. here’s me saying “i missed the conversation”

that’s what i was talking about, i didn’t read it

i read the feedback tho and i didn’t like it

it’s arguably bad and will make teno worse for no reason

[eternal iris]

Well then how about start with that instead of acting like an ass at the start for no reason??

[worthy steeple]

again, the best thing herbivore can do is hide, climb the rocks, not engage in a fight. teno having ability to jump is fine.

[eternal iris]

Like I said it does nothing but muddy the conversation

Now we are here

[worthy steeple]

does it really matter that much? you’ve heard my point in one of my next messages

[crimson crater]

tenos can defend itself and is fast enough to escape things stronger than it. it can survive just fine without it

[eternal iris]

It does actually, being cordial is essential to having a discourse that actually goes anywhere. Not to mention it's literally a server rule.

[worthy steeple]

hm, let’s remove ceras body buff bite and bleed resistance, it’s good even without it

[iron tree]

...

why'd you want to remove teno's jump

[crimson crater]

the body buff is its niche lmao, not the same thing

[iron tree]

there's worse...like stego

[worthy steeple]

survival ability vs survival ability

again, it’s the same as asking to remove pteras ability to fly

[crimson crater]

that jump is a fraction of its identity, by your logic dilo should have a jump

[iron tree]

it should have a jump imo

[crimson crater]

maybe it should

[iron tree]

but not every animal should be able to jump

[worthy steeple]

dilo doesn’t look like something that could jump, dilo is one of the fastest dinos in the game with amazing stamina, dilo is a predator, it should hunt, teno should not, because it’s a herbivore that should hide instead

again, best thing herbivore can do is not engage the fight at all.

that’s the whole point, it’s not a hunter

tenos whole thing is being defensive and being able to jump is one of the things it should be able to do

[iron tree]

out of all things

why do they want teno's jump to get removed

[worthy steeple]

i don’t see how being able to jump is SUCH a problem for you, with such small amount of rocks on the map tenos ability to jump is super situational. most of the times you use it to cross the delta rivers faster or jump and swim away from the carnivores

[eternal iris]

#balance-feedback There ya go

Reasoning is there

[worthy steeple]

please chill out and stop asking more nerfs for the playable that already got its damage reduced

[iron tree]

...

[crimson crater]

eh fair enough

[viscid mica]

Why does teno not need to jump?

[crimson crater]

i’d rather tenos stam to be nerfed than to remove its jump