balance-feedback-discussion

[viscid mica]

For now

[worthy steeple]

i’m glad we got maia and dibble instead of bigger carnivore, the current ones are strong enough.

[viscid mica]

^

[light steppe]

Would rather have a Herbi that will have a Counterpart

[worthy steeple]

they all do tho

[viscid mica]

It’s better to have strong herbi than strong carnis

[worthy steeple]

yes

[light steppe]

Sure but i would like too have 1 Carni with one Herbi and not 2 Carnis and then 2 Herbis

[viscid mica]

It’d be pretty miserable trying to survive if allo dropped before Maia and dibble

[light steppe]

Sure but i would like if Maia would come with allo not alone

[worthy steeple]

some people don’t understand this but it’s literally how it is in nature.

smaller, more agile carnivore hunts bigger herbivore.

[light steppe]

gtg was a nice chat with u
need too go out with my Doggos yk

[viscid mica]

Maia is in a weird state rn where is a wee bit of a menace but same time it’s slow hit times make it easily counterable

[viscid mica]

👍

[worthy steeple]

not like nature matters a lot, but the game should follow the same logic to stay balanced.

you don’t expect larger and faster carnivore hunt smaller herbivores, that’s not how it works

[viscid mica]

Most things punch up

[worthy steeple]

yes, that’s for sure

[viscid mica]

Rip carno XD

[worthy steeple]

yeah one of the reasons they made carno what it is right now

[viscid mica]

I mean carno doesn’t need to be the top pred but certainly shouldn’t be as light weight as it is rn

Legit 1400/1500 would put it in a very good place imo

[worthy steeple]

i mean, the only thing that would change is amount of hits you can take before you die

[viscid mica]

Ye I mean that’s all you really need

In most 1v1 if the carno if competent the cera/teno is orange health or lower

So 1-2 more hits would be a world difference

[worthy steeple]

i mean, carno having 1.3t is more than enough to fight dilos and omnis and anything bellow 1.3t

[viscid mica]

100%

I mean cycle charging for the smalls is all you really need

In a duo we can handle solo of most things that you can still charge etc teno and below

[worthy steeple]

i mean, carno is super fast, it can decide when it wants to engage and disengage the fight, literally nothing can outrun it. which means in a fight with something that cannot outrun it it should have massive disadvantage

i mean, just imagine if carno was 1.8 and could easily stun both teno and cera, they would have no chance fighting it

[viscid mica]

With deino turn fixed only thing that needs any real work rn in balancing is pachy

[worthy steeple]

that would be super unfair

[worthy steeple]

yeah, that’s for sure

[viscid mica]

Mix packed with carno XD

[worthy steeple]

yeah, i fought cera+carno mixpack few days ago, killed both👹👹👹

[viscid mica]

I mean certainly some minor rebalances that need love etc dilo night venom being way to strong and Maia kick timer being abit slow but nothing major

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[viscid mica]

Teno 4 cera and carno got me and my carno duo

[worthy steeple]

NOOOO

[viscid mica]

We was boxing that teno before they pulled up too, only hit one of us and we’d gotten like 7/8 charges including a head hit

[worthy steeple]

ah that’s lame

hate mixsuckers

[viscid mica]

Mix packers always are so trash

[worthy steeple]

ikr

[viscid mica]

Bro the carno almost died to a under sized carno that was already low from a teno hit because he didn’t know how to alt bite

[worthy steeple]

🥹

[viscid mica]

This is why I grow dibbles fr

Just to slaughter mix packers

[worthy steeple]

so i have a teno on eu5 and i count the mixpackers i killed lmao

wait let me find the note

[viscid mica]

I run with one group that grow Gen two teno and there is like 7-9 of us at some points

We do be boxing the dibble/cera groups

[worthy steeple]

omg that’s amazing, i was fighting at the south plains for like 2 hours and the only herbivore i found was mixpacking stego and one maia

i just can’t find other tenos

i need fwends

[viscid mica]

I let herds slide bit carni X her I can get it

[worthy steeple]

so this is just as one teno
(i counted only fg ones)

[viscid mica]

XD I’ll hit you up next time we grow tenos

[worthy steeple]

except that cera and stego ofc

[viscid mica]

This is like my cannibal omni list for all the omni I KOS for being cannibals

[worthy steeple]

LMAO

[worthy steeple]

hell yeah

[viscid mica]

It’s got 4 names and to this day one of them still can’t remember why I KOS him and he mains omni

I don’t remember either

He just on the list

[worthy steeple]

that’s funny how 90% of all the carnivores are ceras and dilos, says a lot about the balance of power

[worthy steeple]

LMAO

[viscid mica]

I mean ya cera bile is super strong, and dilo venom at night is uhhh fun…….

[worthy steeple]

poor lad xd

[worthy steeple]

yeah..

i hope they will do some rebalancing once allo and rex is added, since we will have carnivores capable of hunting larger herbivores

[viscid mica]

I don’t see cera as being all that strong tbh maybe let people go it and sprint so it doesn’t give abuncha free hits

But if you nerf them in any major way they’ll become too weak by the time bigguns drop

[worthy steeple]

i mean we do now, but i feel like they made some carnivores artificially stronger just to fight those large herbivores

[viscid mica]

Maybe

Allo will certainly rock the mix packing community sense allo will be able to box dibbles in the 1s

I do hope dibble can’t knock down allo

[worthy steeple]

why tho?

[viscid mica]

I dunno probably should

Just that dibble is very tonky

And it’s the knock down is why people mix pack with it

It’s fastish for a herbi

Does a ton of damage

[worthy steeple]

like the dibble is heavier, it’s slower, it should have advantage against something that is faster.

like the reason why i think allo should not win 1v1 against the dibble realistically is because allo can choose not to fight the dibble, but the dibble cannot choose not the fight an allo

[viscid mica]

Fair

[worthy steeple]

tho if allo can ambush it..

[viscid mica]

I just meant that I hope it isn’t like carno that gets stun locked cuz of a super long get up animation

[worthy steeple]

and i think if it’s 2v1 against single dibble, it would be pretty easy to get behind it and kill it

[viscid mica]

I mean a group can do some funny stuff

To be clear I’m the kinda player that grabs 3 people gets a 4 man troodon and starts nuking people

[worthy steeple]

oh yeah ofc, i doubt allo is gonna be small game hunter XD

i expect allo to be big game hunter

like paras and stuff

[viscid mica]

27 ish pounces to kill a dibble

[worthy steeple]

yeah for sure

[viscid mica]

Maybe

[worthy steeple]

yeah, it’s 18 to kill the teno

[viscid mica]

13 to kill a cera

[worthy steeple]

hehe

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

maia is pretty much free meal if it doesn’t run away

[viscid mica]

Fun fact Maia with all healing perks can out heal troodon if your under 6 of you

You have to do all the venom damage in one go

[worthy steeple]

that’s insane, how fast it heals?

[viscid mica]

Maia heal speed is nutty

[viscid mica]

Like 1.3+ per tic or so

It’s super fast

[worthy steeple]

but it probably won’t be able to heal the bleed, which means it won’t regen the stamina

[viscid mica]

If you play it slow in a fight as Maia you out heal most Dino’s

[viscid mica]

Troodon bleed?

[worthy steeple]

yeah, troodon does a lot of bleed to carnos and maias

[viscid mica]

Really? You think your bleeding something like Maia as troodon?

[worthy steeple]

maias bleed resistance sucks

[viscid mica]

I dunno it’s not as much as you think

[worthy steeple]

yeah, i think it’s possible

maybe needs some testing

[viscid mica]

We tried to do a 3 man hunt with cycling tactics to keep at least 1 on at all times and just out healed us

[worthy steeple]

and it also has absolutely terrible bleed heal, if that helps

[viscid mica]

From my checks you need atleast 5 to keep 2-3 actively attacking

[worthy steeple]

insane

[viscid mica]

You gotta keep t3 if it drops from t3 it will heal the venom damage and raw damage super fast

Not even funny how fast it heals

[worthy steeple]

oh

[viscid mica]

Most stuff even with Healing perks only does like .5 per tick max

Bro does nearly triple that

[worthy steeple]

ahah

[viscid mica]

That’s trotting heal btw

Not sitting

[worthy steeple]

holy

well maybe they just forgot to change the values, like they forgot to make it not that fast in the water

[viscid mica]

Check it on a admin do a full healing perks, and then do a bunch’s damage and watch it heal

[worthy steeple]

or maybe it’s another amazing balancing

[viscid mica]

I mean it’s not OP per say

[worthy steeple]

i’ll test that in few hours

[viscid mica]

Just makes it something you need to burst or bleed to kill

[worthy steeple]

maybe maia got amazing heal in exchange of it having terrible bleed heal

[viscid mica]

Can’t wait for Rex to drop and to try and get a 15+ troodon group to try and hunt a FG Rex

[viscid mica]

Maybe

[worthy steeple]

AHAH xd

[viscid mica]

I don’t even wanna guess how many pounces that will take

It takes nearly 140 to kill a stego

I don’t wanna even think about a 9T FG Rex

[worthy steeple]

tbf i have no idea how they will balance something like trike to be able to fight troodons and omnis

what i expect is omnis and troodons just not be able to pounce something that big

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

like the thick skin

[viscid mica]

I mean you can if it’s side or back just trying to chunk through some. 7-8 tons will be hell

[cosmic pelican]

I have a feeling trike and rex will just outheal troodons dmg lol

[viscid mica]

Ya it’s armour value will be super high plus trike won’t be a bleeder

[worthy steeple]

maybe that

[viscid mica]

The armour value might be too high for troodons to even hurt them

Like omni sure they can box em if they got the numbers

Gonna be a long and hard fight

And your def not pinning that

[worthy steeple]

ahah

[viscid mica]

BRO HOW MANY MOUNTED SPOTS WOULD THERE BE

at least 8 for trike

2 back 3 per side

[worthy steeple]

tricerabus

[viscid mica]

LOL

I don’t even wanna think about the troodon spots

[worthy steeple]

yeah 8 sounds right lol

[viscid mica]

[worthy steeple]

idk how they will pounce the rex, like they can’t jump that high

or they will jump on its leg and then climb? lol

[viscid mica]

Fair don’t think troodon will be doing damage to Rex

The armour value would be too high

[worthy steeple]

yeah probably

[viscid mica]

Tbh would be funny if you could land on a Rex’s back and just rest

Like PT carrier XD

[worthy steeple]

i’d imagine it would be impossible as the giant rex and especially trike to be able to fight little rats running around you xd

[viscid mica]

Omni is one thing troodon they’d accidentally step on

[worthy steeple]

that would be sick ahah

[worthy steeple]

ouch

[viscid mica]

Ya I doubt the venom rats will do any damage

Teeth too small to pen the skin

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[viscid mica]

How here’s a question do you think PT should do bleed ?

I do bro has a whole rapier on his face

[worthy steeple]

i think it should be a nightmare for smaller dinos like hypsi.

like just imagine how big is ptera compared to smaller dinos in the roster, it should definitely deal bleed to something small, but i doubt it would be okay for it to deal bleed to something like carno

[viscid mica]

Ya I had a bb carno that killed my freind and I hit him like 8 times but sense we do just raw damage I ran outa stam before I could get the last couple hits

[viscid mica]

At least should do bleed to anything under 400 kg

[worthy steeple]

sad times

i would really want ptera to not be just spectator mode tbh

[viscid mica]

I mean you can kill Herrera and below

Takes time and some skill

If you get a headshot it helps a lot

[worthy steeple]

never did that myself, but i guess it’s possible

[viscid mica]

I’ve gotten afew it’s hard especially sense we do no bleed

Like I love keeping stuff from healing by poking

But it is risky

[worthy steeple]

hehe

[viscid mica]

Quetz is set to just be a better pt

[worthy steeple]

ptera rework is coming soon, so i guess they might change stuff and make it better as the playable

[viscid mica]

If I can bully baby’s better I’m all for it

Plus Herrera love bullying Herrera

[worthy steeple]

xD fair enough

[viscid mica]

They dare to think they can rest safely in my presence the audacity

[viscid mica]

@noble shore might I ask why part you disagree with

[crimson crater]

he is muted

[viscid mica]

L

[crimson crater]

fr

[viscid mica]

How about you what you think of those 4?

[crimson crater]

gonna read it rq

good changes

especially pachy

[viscid mica]

Mostly minor stuff tbh

Games in a pretty good state rn some playables need some mechanics added but no rush and the res ‘it’s mostly minor adjustments

[worthy steeple]

alright, so i think i have a vision of how we can make pachy a lot better as a playable.

• so the first step is fixing the bug when pachy damages you even after the attack animation.

• the second step is making it so its attack doesnt stun pachy itself for that long, basically so every hit doesnt feel like a trade.

• i think it would be great to give pachy like 5% speed boost for both trot and sprint speed so it has easier time running away from the ceras.

and here come the funniest and controversial part i'd say.
i think the pachy should be A LOT more effective against the dilo and omni or carno, but at the same time it should fear both teno and cera
and heres the reason why. bonebreak is literally the strongest ability in this game, bonebreaked dinos cant use special attacks, cant use alt attacks, even if they can they dont do much damage, so if theres a dino that cannot possibly run away from the pachy it should at least have some strong bones. or some kind of resistance to bonebreaks.

pachy has a lot of potential, but we need to be very careful giving it buffs

so basically pachy should be really strong agasint something that it cant run away from, but it should fear things that it can in fact easily outrun

[hasty coyote]

Those are good first steps, but it won’t really fix the core issue of pachy: the fact that fractures are completely prevent standing your ground. If leg fracture didn’t disable so many abilities but only disabled kicks and mobility abilities, pachy would be 10x easier to balance. Head fracture also should prob not decrease attack damage by half, it’s too harsh.

Fractures need to be fixed, then pachy can be fixed

[worthy steeple]

so you want fractures itself be less punishing?

[fervent orchid]

With how easy it is to actually kill pachy it causing things to do less isn't bad. You're running up to things that could easily 2 shot you. Its a high risk high reward dino

[hasty coyote]

Also @stark fern there’s already a control scheme like that, you just have to untick “manual alt attacks” in the settings. Iirc it’s the 2nd tab.

[hasty coyote]

Partially yes. They take up so much of a dinos’s power budget they can’t possibly be given to something by that has any bit of combat power. Like imagine if cera had fracture instead of bile, that thing would be nerfed to the ground.

Fractures need to be reworked to prevent a chase and to give a disadvantage if the target continues to be aggressive, but not entirely prevent the target from fighting at all.

[worthy steeple]

yeah, fair enough tbh, i agree with that

i think the pachy somehow needs to be balanced the way that is can mostly use its powers to punish the dinos that wants to kill it, make bone break more like a defensive tool. so it can’t just run around the map and hunt other dinos

or at least the ones that can’t outrun it

[viscid mica]

<@&401466542140817419>

Is gone

[hasty coyote]

That’s the exact issue. Pachy needs to be super bad to be given such a strong ability, and the fact that its main defense is a risky gamble shows how bad it is at surviving.

[hasty coyote]

Exactly why I think they need to not disable attacks, but instead disable mobility.

[fervent orchid]

herra is also high risk high reward and it does just fine

[worthy steeple]

not the same

[worthy steeple]

yeah fair enough

[viscid mica]

Pachys whole survive scheme is intended to be a counter to things a good but heavier to hit and run hitting a leg break or disabling break and dipping

It ain’t meant to box with em

Dilo omni maybe but anything else break and run

[hasty coyote]

Herrera is high risk on offense, pachy is high risk on defense. That’s the issue. Herrera is incredibly safe on defense due to climbing. Pachy has to fight and pull off risky attacks to survive well on defense. Pachy on offense should be risky though, hence me saying the fractured dinos having the ability to fight back, but pachy (like everything else) should have a consistent defense else it’s bad.

[viscid mica]

Ya the consistency of breaks is just not there

[hasty coyote]

Hence me saying make fractures not disable attacks, so things bigger than Omni and dilo can still maul an overconfident pachy.

[hasty coyote]

The consistency of the attack in general ain’t there, and even then it trades hits every time.

[fervent orchid]

it makes sense that it disables attacks though. if you break a leg you're not going to want to put weight or strain on it. you'd just hurt yourself. so if you enable attacks while broken, it should hurt you if you use it. which is a horrible idea.

[viscid mica]

If they fix pachy break so that if I hit you with a charged head butt to the leg your leg breaks and no just tap and nothing sure

[viscid mica]

I mean you can’t altbite with body or leg break

And head break destroys your vision

[fervent orchid]

thats just hitboxes in general. ive jumped right though things as a deino trying to grab things

[viscid mica]

If your gonna be ballsy and go head to head take the risk pay the price

You get the head break or you die

Pachy do need to be faster than cera atleast thou

[hasty coyote]

Yes, hence me saying it should disable leg and mobility attacks, but stuff like alts (or leg attacks that are necessary for a Dino) should remain. I’d rather the game be better balanced than realistic. We have so much stuff that breaks reality for the sake of gameplay why should we draw the line at pachy.

[viscid mica]

^

[fervent orchid]

i think once they have more dinos that can do breaks into the game, imagine if there was a bigger team to work on the game they might be able to do a little more with pachy, but as is, its kind of in a garbage place i can agree. there's not much else in terms of bone break for it to compete with atm

[hasty coyote]

It is faster, but speed mutations go brrr

[viscid mica]

It needs to be faster that it’s speed mut default imo

No reason why someone with thighs that thicc is that slow

[worthy steeple]

important question

[hasty coyote]

Yeah, imagine if any other dino atm had fractures, and you would see just how op they are.

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message what do you think about this?

[hasty coyote]

It wouldn’t change much, but it is def a nice QoL.

[viscid mica]

Na

[regal valve]

I think it's pretty fair considering Pachy has recovery time even when it lands it's headbutt

[viscid mica]

The stam cost is already punishing enough

[worthy steeple]

hm

[viscid mica]

It’d help to not get nuked by every cera group

[regal valve]

That can be adjusted pretty easily

[hasty coyote]

I have grown to accept the face Omni gets a whole bunch of nice things that aren’t allowed for others so idk, I just hope others are given the same quality (like pachy not stunning itself on a hit)

[regal valve]

it just makes sense for a 450 kg animal to have a recovery for missing it's pounce

but that's just my opinion

[worthy steeple]

since pounce is just one click = win
i might agree with like very very short animation lock and recovery, but not something pachy has, pachy is too bad

[hasty coyote]

I think speed mutations being the worst thing ever added to the game is more the problem then pachy tbh but it is def good.

[fervent orchid]

i mean if you miss your main attack, you should have a punishment for it so there's counterplay. utah are fast and maneuverable compared to carno/cera

[worthy steeple]

fair point

[regal valve]

I agree Pachy recovery its very slow
for omni i was thinking 1 to 1,5 sec recovery

[viscid mica]

Ya I mean they are kinda a must have

[fervent orchid]

stego should have a cooldown on their power swing if we want to talk about recovery times

[regal valve]

Which isn't much, but at least it's something

[viscid mica]

Mean yes but balancing wise it’d be over punishing

[regal valve]

Why?

[viscid mica]

Etc see how bad pachy is with charge stun

[worthy steeple]

i would like omni use the pounce more wisely, instead of just spamming, ofc stam cost is already a punishment, but it’s not a punishment for missing an attack, it’s just a cost to use it, it doesn’t matter if omnis missed or not

[hasty coyote]

I’d be fine with a good compromise for both where the recovery is a slow rather than a full on stun.

[viscid mica]

Leaves you open to getting hit and you don’t have to health to afford that

[regal valve]

☝️ this

[viscid mica]

If they are spamming they probably have no stam

[regal valve]

Just be more carefull. Omni is one of the most agile playable rn

[viscid mica]

Like it already costs a ton of stam to pounce

[worthy steeple]

yeah, but you can afford to miss many many times

[hasty coyote]

That’s the issue. What’s the point of giving all these cool mutations when there is a simple and definite right answer.

[viscid mica]

Not really? Not if it’s anything bigger than you

Missing can also be pretty punishing

[worthy steeple]

oh no that’s too much, that’s a death sentence, what i was thinking is 0.2 second recovery animation, not whole second or two

[viscid mica]

Like omni is kinda weak rn I don’t think further nerf would do it’s playability any good

[worthy steeple]

omni is a menace in packs

it’s not the strongest by itself, that’s for sure

tho its agility makes it a good brawler id say

[viscid mica]

Not very not in survival it’s very rare to see competent omni packs

[fervent orchid]

utah is meant to be played in a pack, this isnt legacy where you can solo a rex lol

[worthy steeple]

yeah true

[viscid mica]

I MEAN I’ll believe it when I see it omni mains are sweaty like that

[regal valve]

mmmhh, 0.2 is almost nothing honestly, but i respect your opinion anyways, 0.2 it's still better than nothing

[hasty coyote]

Tbf, if it’s bigger, it would have to be already aiming at where you were going to land the hit. Otherwise its attacks are generally too slow to hit you. If it’s something smaller that can react to your miss, then they ain’t 1-shotting you.

[viscid mica]

Any stun can cost a lot when you weigh only 500kg

[regal valve]

Omni is 450 kg, unless we're talking about Pachy

[viscid mica]

Is it did it get nerfed I swear omni are 500

[worthy steeple]

0.2 is enough to react and counter attack, but 1 second will literally kill an omni if it misses the pounce

[regal valve]

Nope

[viscid mica]

I gotta drive I’ll review what’s said in abit

[regal valve]

Unless they buffed Omni's weight

[worthy steeple]

omni is 450🥹

[fervent orchid]

nothing is its correct weight/size because dondi doesnt want semi accurate dinos.

[worthy steeple]

pachy is 500

[worthy steeple]

wdym “correct size” omni is literally completely fictional, how it can be correct or incorrect?
it’s made up

[fervent orchid]

i understand for balance sakes they could upsize/downsize a dino because as far as i know health is tied to weight still

[worthy steeple]

yes

[fervent orchid]

which i still hate that stego can 3 shot a full grown deino but a deino has to get like 6-7 bites to kill a stego. it makes no sense to me

[regal valve]

mmmhhhh i agree maybe 1 sec is to much... i fell like 0.5 sec might work, not too much, but also not too little

[worthy steeple]

why would deino dominate on land? it should suck.

it’s basically the same as asking stego to be able to fight deino in water lol

[fervent orchid]

if you ask me, stego needs a cooldown on its powerswing. it being able to spam it with hardly any stamina cost is awful to play against

[regal valve]

Didn't it cost like 15% stam per swing?

[worthy steeple]

deino must die if it decides to fight stego on land, it won’t stand a chance

[fervent orchid]

it cant even fight it while its standing in water

[worthy steeple]

nice, because it shouldn’t

[fervent orchid]

i cant wait to have my giga and hunt down stego players camping the waters edges

unless they ruin it and do a repeat of legacy and make it completely reliant on bleed

[worthy steeple]

giga was one of the best if not the best apex in legacy lol, you literally needed to bite shant 6 times to bleed it out. it had the best trot speed as well

[worthy steeple]

don’t expect it to be an easy fight, stego is slower so it will probably have massive advantage in a fight, like stun with the power swing and then swing like 2 more times to make your giga suffer

[fervent orchid]

i dont disagree with that. but i disliked having to rely on bleed like that, some actual base damage would be nice

[worthy steeple]

giga also had amazing damage tho

like it could 1-2 shot basically whole roster

[regal valve]

giga's damage wasn't that bad in Legacy

[worthy steeple]

it could easily tail ride rex as well

it was genuinely the best apex

[fervent orchid]

that is exactly why i hated fighting in legacy. it took no skill and if you messed up once it was practically over if they got behind you

especially fighting a rex, 75% chance to bone break was brutal

[regal valve]

Don't forget the bugged hitboxes!

[fervent orchid]

I'm also hoping they dont make Theri such a glass cannon in evrima.

[hasty coyote]

@meager hazel I don't think cera has an increased amount of bleed damage per bite, it seems about average. The issue is that cera makes you vomit, which lowers your stam, food, and water, all of which make you bleed more. Plus bleed carno honestly does nothing for it, its meant to kill things fast with its low stam, not patiently bleed them out.

[viscid mica]

weird response to me asking what weight it was but ok

[vale brook]

omni was 1000kg in legacy, and maaaay have been 500 at some point in EVRIMA? idk, all i know rn is Omni has 450

[viscid mica]

i dunno last i played i swear it was 500

[hasty coyote]

It’s been 450 since before pachy released, because otherwise it would be pinning pachy.

[eager saddle]

@indigo abyss pretty sure that a lot of dinos, not even carnivores, can massively benefit from lag. Nerfing carno because of latency does not seem appropriate when things like cera’s and stegos hitting you during lag is way more punishing.

[vale brook]

this is true

[viscid mica]

@onyx halo good start but removing canris from carni diet wouldn’t help anything

[onyx halo]

Why?

[viscid mica]

Why do tenos chase cera to the end of the earth, why do dibble go out of their way to fight everything, why are stego KOS demons 90% of the time. Cuz PvP is fun just cuz it’s not diet ain’t mean they won’t kill

And if you reduce Ai again and remove other playables all your asking for is to get KOSd without cause vs atleast you know there was a point

It won’t stop them from killing

Now I will agree Ai are a bit over tuned after they fixed the spawning

The problem with fully removing carnivores from other diets as well will be over population of carnivore and not enough herbis to compensate

Even if they made it more engaging if your the only thing that carnis can eat you’ll basically just get attacked on site and hunted too end of earth for the sake of it which would ruin herbi game play

[onyx halo]

Literally what? If we fix ai, people will be kosd because people need to eat

[viscid mica]

You get KOSd 90% of the time already

[onyx halo]

Because its a dino survival game, not a hello kitty online party

[viscid mica]

I won’t even pretend if I’m carno I KOS dilo no question asked because they are a potential competitor and threat

[onyx halo]

How removing carnivores from diet leads to carnie overpopulation?

[viscid mica]

Exactly Dino survival PvP is apart of that survival

[viscid mica]

Carnis fighting reduces carni pop

[onyx halo]

Ugh isn't that the point of the game lmao?
Also herbies are pretty strong in pvp, they're not walking meat

[viscid mica]

No fighting higher pop of adults higher pop of adults leads to over popped carnis

[onyx halo]

Carnies getting their brains bashed in by maias also reduces carno pop :p

[viscid mica]

You make it pointless to kill other carnis as it’ll only hurt you more to do so than the amount of adult carnis sky rockets and boom a lot harder to survive mass hordes of carnis

[viscid mica]

It’s all a numbers game when it comes to hunting the number is weight either individual or divided in between many

[onyx halo]

Nope

1. Kill to avoid competition
2. Kill to eat a little bit, not the whole body, because parasites
3. Kill for pvp

Plenty of reasons to kill still

[viscid mica]

Less fighting amongst carni means more fighting against herbi means less dying

[onyx halo]

Why less dying? Herbies are not weak, they can stand their ground well, especially in herds

[viscid mica]

1. Not really
2. Wouldn’t happen to risky
   3.sure

[viscid mica]

When the amount of adult carnis is higher the fighting gets a lot harder

Especially sense in a normal situation of say 5 dilo, 3 cera and 2 dibble the dilo and cera would probably fight BUT if they can’t eat eachother due to risk they’ll gang up on the dibbles

Herbi die quicker herbi becomes unfun as growing gets harder as it would encourage camping the grow areas leading to less and less herbis

Your idea simply wouldn’t work for so many reasons

[elfin night]

There’s so many things about that post that made me say “no, please, stop it”

[worthy steeple]

lmao

[elfin night]

Like I don’t think the isle should ever remove carnivores from carnivore diets even if the devs want it that way

[worthy steeple]

i didn’t read it yet, but 10❌ makes me giggle

not like ❌ matters tbh

[elfin night]

And honestly I don’t think AI abundance is a problem especially considering that we don’t even have a large enough mid tier in the game yet

I am fine with Carno being able to sustain itself individually with AI

And Cera can barely do that too

I am still reading it

[worthy steeple]

it can easily do that

there’s so much ai around the map after the patch

[elfin night]

And I read the third point 💀

Yeah, let’s just give you a debuff unless you prey on the AI (that you want to reduce its number in the same suggestion) and 20% of a server’s player count

[worthy steeple]

i agree on one thing with that post, ai should be rare

[elfin night]

Which may as well be just adult dibbles and stegos

[worthy steeple]

that’s crazy how much ai around now

[elfin night]

I don’t mind it that much. Better than making carnivore early game pure rng

[worthy steeple]

ofc it made the gameplay chill and, but more ai means you can sustain mega packs, which is bad

[worthy steeple]

imo ai should give a lot of food to juvies and subs and give a lot less to the fully grown dinos

i was in a 7 carno pack just 10 minutes ago, the amount of ai is insane, we were literally killing just for fun, they were keep spawning and spawning

[elfin night]

But I have to say the two carnivore on carnivore predation suggestions there were just atrocious, on an objective level. At least as things stand now.

With 7-8 players out if 10 playing carnivores, it would be miserable that you not only got your diet form eating the other remaining proportion, but you got debuffed for not doing it

[worthy steeple]

we could sustain 20 carnos tbf

[elfin night]

[worthy steeple]

like easily

[elfin night]

Brutal

Maybe toning it down a little could work, but if I had to choose I would rather have that now than what we had before with AI nowhere to be found

Even though I did find more megapacks after the patch

[worthy steeple]

you can always eat organs, but imo it should be properly balanced, like cera not having carnivores on its diet is fine, but herrera or deino should have carnivores on their diet, because they’re not active hunters, more like opportunistic ones

[elfin night]

Right

But still the debuff part is

[worthy steeple]

yeah, debuff is meh, it punishes carnivore that can’t find food and forced to fight another carnivore

[elfin night]

Organs were a great addition that could maybe support only herbivores in carni diets

But they should never ever force carnivores into hunting herbivores

[worthy steeple]

yeah, i don’t like that

maybe only when roster is bigger and 9 out of 10 players don’t play as the carnivores

[elfin night]

Which sucks considering that herbivores are barely played and that isn’t really because they’re weak or necessarily boring

The only inherently boring ones I can think of are Dryo and Hypsi because they have nothing going for them, and maybe stego to some extent. The rest are fun to use

[elfin night]

In fact I would argue that both in legacy and evrima, herbis are significantly stronger

[worthy steeple]

i mean, they kinda are, they made dibble, teno and maia and pachy artificially weaker and made cera and dilo artificially stronger just so they can fight the herbivores

[elfin night]

That is not going to happen ever sadly. People are more often than not biased towards carnivores and a gameplay that needs you to track down and kill

[worthy steeple]

actually yeah, i doubt we will ever see herbivores as a majority

[elfin night]

Because it was a necessity. But even then on their own they can very much hold their own and still have the tools for engaging gameplay

[worthy steeple]

yeah true

skill matters too ofc

but i hope they will revert all the shadownerfs and stuff when they will add allo and rex

[elfin night]

Stego can also be interesting for combat but you cannot be as proactive and it takes a while. But the others can be more proactive and bring fights whenever they want as well as also engaging in the prey game more consistently than stego that is virtually immune to predation once it grows

[worthy steeple]

yeah for sure

[elfin night]

They will. Cera will never be suited to hunt stegos and dibbles in a finished version of the game, or one at least with larger predators

It’s basic balancing

They gotta make both factions be more or less on equal footing in a game like this despite their appearances and how they would be irl

[worthy steeple]

hopefully😔

btw there’s another reason why i hate new ai changes

there’s crocs in random ponds again, and i hate that

like west access has just one water source with the deino camping it 24/7

it’s just so annoying

it’s the most boring gameplay for the deino player and it also makes everyone’s life pain

if only there was a safe spot to drink, but there’s none

[viscid mica]

Ai is abit high

We managed to sustain like 13 dilo all with perfect diet the other day just by hanging at mudflats near hillside pond

Like we didn’t need to leave Ai where very plentiful

I’m all for Ai to stay alive but enough to max diets and still have a stockpile with more spawning is abit much

[worthy steeple]

yeah, same with the 7 carnos

[viscid mica]

Can probably sustain any carni rn on purely Ai in the right areas

Nothing is big enough to need more

[worthy steeple]

yeah

even deinos running around on land and eating ai, i hate that

[viscid mica]

Ngl a FG deino got way to confident when my dilo group was around and almost died

13 dilo jumping you then spamming clones until end of t3 def left him orange or lower

[viscid mica]

Tbh deinos ability to drag stuff on land for some 30ish seconds is hot bs

In water is one thing but in land holding a FG dibble for that long makes no sense

[worthy steeple]

ahah gj

[worthy steeple]

yeah, agree

[viscid mica]

Ngl Na3 might be a laggy mess but there where a lot of super groups of 1 Dino between dilo commune 7 man dibble group and a cera group that I heard whispers about was piping yesterday fr

[worthy steeple]

ohh there’s nothing like that on eu servers usually, like i don’t see that many megapaks, mixpacks or cheaters, like what the hell is wrong eith NA? xd

all the bad guys are on na xd

[viscid mica]

It’s pretty bad I’d say we have a lot of mix packing which is why so many people mega pack

You just need the numbers to compete with dibble carrying cera etc

[worthy steeple]

😔

[viscid mica]

Mega packing isn’t as bad as mix packing imo thou fr fr

[worthy steeple]

yeah that’s for sure

i hate mixpacks a lot more

[viscid mica]

Bro every mixpacker I’ve ever met solo are some of the worst players in existence

They genuinely sleep on dibble or stego or deino to do all the heavy lifting and free grow their stronger Dino’s

[sage marsh]

7 Carnos is kinda nutty. Carno needs to be working for that food.

[iron tree]

I mean

They had to feed 7 carnos

[eager saddle]

If only there was another water source not even 2 minutes away

[eager saddle]

I mean, no one is around the other areas of the map so

[worthy steeple]

there's none?

[eager saddle]

west rail access?

[worthy steeple]

yes

[eager saddle]

there is tho?

[worthy steeple]

no?

[eager saddle]

if I see a deino in that pond, I just go up

[worthy steeple]

up where?

[eager saddle]

bottom one is west access

[worthy steeple]

the one at the south almost always has another deino

and its not migration

[eager saddle]

yes? the top one is empty

[worthy steeple]

so one deino should not let everyone to drink from the pond and force players to leave the migration and run away to the other pond that also has deino in it

[eager saddle]

I've never seen a croc in the top one

ever

[worthy steeple]

they are there

[eager saddle]

I've always just drank there whenever im west

[worthy steeple]

yeah be careful

[eager saddle]

what's the difference between a deino doing that and a stego/dibble?

the bottom one has a log to drink behind where the deino has the angle. And you can see them do that if you pay attention

[worthy steeple]

because you can easily run away from both and drink from the other spot

deino IS in the water, you cant do anything about it

[eager saddle]

in the big one up top? sure. The small one below? nah

[worthy steeple]

ahah yeah sure

jsut be careful next time drinking

[eager saddle]

[cosmic pelican]

Literally just drink in the sp ravine, deinos only go there to log

[iron tree]

Or drink in the swamps

There is shallow water

[eager saddle]

swamps is a bit far from west rail

[worthy steeple]

its too far away

and the problem is not in that i cant drink elsewhere

[cosmic pelican]

From west rail? Maybe if youre a hatchling hypsi

[worthy steeple]

the problem is that they survive by eating ai and camp the only pond in a migration

and i dont know how that can be fun or good for the game

[cosmic pelican]

Okay but if you make ponds off limits to deinos the only place theyll be able to live in is delta, which is like 10% of the entire map

And idk abt you, but I havent seen a single deino outside of delta ever since the schooling fish nerf

Okay, Ive seen one at hl lake, thats it

[worthy steeple]

yeah and they're back now, since we got a lot of ai

[cosmic pelican]

Still havent seen any

[worthy steeple]

lucky

[cosmic pelican]

Ive been visiting west access and west rail on eu1 pretty much every day, 0 deinos

And the one I saw at hl today wasnt even fully grown, and probably starving

[worthy steeple]

one grabbed me yesterday, tho it bugged and i survived

[cosmic pelican]

It tried going onto land to fight me cuz it was so desperate

[worthy steeple]

lol

poor lad

[cosmic pelican]

If the second biggest lake in the entire map cant sustain a 3t deino with ai, the west rail and access pond sure wont do the trick

[worthy steeple]

then idk how there was a fg deino

[cosmic pelican]

Lived off of catching ppl

[worthy steeple]

doubt that

i spend like 2 hours there, nothing but the juvies

alright that’s a lie, like 1.5 hours approximately

but the amount of ai around was insane

probably the reason it could sustain itself

[cosmic pelican]

You also have to keep in mind getting to one of those ponds requires hours of preparation beforehand, just so you can attempt the journey that even 1 raptor can mess up completely.

[worthy steeple]

i mean, it doesn’t matter tbh, i know it’s not easy, doesn’t mean that others should suffer

[cosmic pelican]

If you grew to sub, got the saltwater mutation, got enough food to not starve to death travelling through the ocean, made the long journey on land AND didnt starve right after or get cannid, you deserve it.

[worthy steeple]

i get it, it’s hard to get to that pond, but i genuinely not good for the game

[cosmic pelican]

The deino player suffered so you can be mildly inconvenienced by its presence

[worthy steeple]

it’s not about how hard it is

it’s about how much of a pain in the ass that deino becomes

like it’s not my personal fault it get there, i’m not responsible for that

[hasty coyote]

I think its fine that deinos CAN get anywhere, the issue is the fact that they are completely undetectable until they lunge. They should be required to actually hide so that theres counterplay and skill expression on both sides.

[viscid mica]

@timber tusk legendary art

[timber tusk]

Thank you 😊

[fiery shard]

because without fish, deino is doomed to die. lol. i've written many times that players either don't drink or drink where it's safe to drink. so it is easier for us (only deino players) to go to a similar game (I think everyone knows what I mean) than to try to play on something that is unplayable. I played yesterday and only survived because of cannibal. if I hadn't met that sub deino, I would have starved to death

[fiery shard]

boars/deers/goats give us ~2-3% of hunger. do you seriously think deino survive on one boar that crosses the river every 3-4 hours? lmao

[covert osprey]

not enough people talk about this. even as a deino player i never see other deinos

fish give you like half a percent or a little less

elite fish i think are 2-3% aswell

[fiery shard]

fact. I didn't see any deinos except me and that croc I killed

[covert osprey]

it's just sad.

it'll be the last time i grow a deino

currently at 90% and logged rn because of no AI

starving

and of course all the water areas are landlocked separated so I can't just go to a more populated area of the map

anyway none of this should be such a controversial topic when herbies have grazing

[worthy steeple]

i got few friends that can easily sustain themselves as a fg croc, even in a group, it’s a skill issue on your side😔

[covert osprey]

idk it's laughable. it used to be that as a deino you should pretty much never be going on land. now it's necessary if you want to see any more than 10% of the map and you still shouldn't do it

probably in a hotspot, though

[worthy steeple]

oh no you can’t sustain the biggest and strongest dino in the game by eating ai🥹

[covert osprey]

it's not like i want to be forced to have to

but then you have people like you complaining about lack of safe spots

[fiery shard]

is it my fault that the players don't come to drink where I'm huffing and puffing and yet I have no way to leave that place? lmao

[covert osprey]

anyway idk I think deino was just a poor decision to add into the game without more aquatics

[fiery shard]

herbi logic lol

[covert osprey]

so much deino hate it's insane

[worthy steeple]

i mean, i have an example of someone who can in fact survive. and if you can’t it’s more of a YOU issue

and dude still thinks i’m playing herbivore only

[covert osprey]

can survive on what though

[worthy steeple]

ai/killing players

there’s a lot of fg crocs even at the northeast plains and it’s one of the least populated spots on the map

[covert osprey]

there are not

[worthy steeple]

there are

[covert osprey]

that's where i'm currently starving so

[worthy steeple]

literally saw 2 yesterday

[covert osprey]

i'm not sure how you'd tell me

[worthy steeple]

what server?

[covert osprey]

irrelevant

[worthy steeple]

wdym irrelevant

[covert osprey]

i'm not sure how the server name helps you

it's an official NA

[worthy steeple]

i’ve seen crocs on eu 4 and eu 7

fg ones.

[covert osprey]

anyway it's all just luck

and you get unlucky for too long you basically just gotta log, and that's bad game design

[worthy steeple]

8 hours of growth amount of luck?

[covert osprey]

getting to fg isn't the problem

besides this is all about AI spawn

having a full stomach gets you like 20% growth each time til you get to adult

so you really don't have to do much especially since your stomach aint that big til you get to adult

[worthy steeple]

i mean, there’s literally a croc in the west access, if it can survive there i guess it’s possible to survive anywhere, especially delta

[fiery shard]

it's not my problem, bro. it's devs problem. when most can't survive but a few players can, it's not about the skill of the game. it's about luck. what skill do you need so that when there's 100/100 players the map isn't empty?
#general-feedback message

[covert osprey]

i'm all up for making deino less frustrating to play against but, making it so that that frustration only happens once in a million years isn't the way to deal with it

[worthy steeple]

i never experienced that. map is never empty, wasn’t you alive for like a long period of time despite telling us that you’re starving?

[covert osprey]

i'm not sure what you fail to understand

[worthy steeple]

try south plains, try highlands, even delta is amazing, there’s always players when i’m at the delta

[covert osprey]

when you're full grown, your stomach is huge and your hunger drain is fast

[worthy steeple]

i have no idea how you can’t find anyone, even other crocs

[fiery shard]

i was only in the game because of cannibalism. if there wasn't a deino around that I could kill, I was out of the game

[worthy steeple]

it doesn’t, it takes 1.5 hours to drain it, surely you can find something to eat in 1.5 hours

[covert osprey]

if you're at full stomach

[worthy steeple]

i mean, it’s the only other semi-aquatic your size in the game, and you’re a cannibal, i don’t see an issue

[covert osprey]

it is absolutely fast considering deino is... an ambush predator

considering that each fish only gives you half a percent and elite fish give you 2-3%, it's really not hard to see how it's inevitable

[worthy steeple]

it just means you can eat a lot and have a lot of time to swim around the map and find new victim

[covert osprey]

the game turns into starving simulator

[fiery shard]

u don't see a problem with deinos only feeding on other deinos because there's no one else? ok

[covert osprey]

that's literally anti-ambush-gameplay

the whole point

[worthy steeple]

they don’t

[covert osprey]

and unfortunately i know you don't know how this game works because if you swim around the map looking for fish, you won't find any

AI doesn't work like that

it tends to spawn around the player and the more players present, the more AI spawn

if you're moving too fast it tends not to spawn.

[worthy steeple]

so you’re telling me the ONLY way deino can survive is by eating other deino? i guess you should explain to me how they survive in random ponds around the map or how they survive at the south plains?

[covert osprey]

you probably don't see full grown deinos like you think you do. if you do it's likely in very rare, special occasions.

did you play during spiro?

[fiery shard]

just yesterday: i killed a sub deino on sp. waited an hour but no one came. i ate elite fish and wait another hour but no one came. my hunger dropped to critical level and i logged out. nice gameplay

[covert osprey]

im telling you that deino surviving is the exception, not the rule

literally tbh. i must have been online for three-four hours waiting for any kind of activity in northeast pond

anyway AI was present and numerous but it was all school fish and goats and boars.

[worthy steeple]

how did you survive for 3 hours?

i guess you had something to eat

[covert osprey]

long story short eventually my hunger ran out because you can only run agaisnt the timer so long

plus each bite takes stamina at adult stage so it's not like you can just keep hunting

[worthy steeple]

i mean, pond deinos deserve that tbf

[worthy steeple]

it doesn’t, only alt bites

[covert osprey]

it's a spawn location

[worthy steeple]

you mean the lake? not the pond

you called it a pond

[covert osprey]

then my shit's broken or they updated it because every bite takes stam for me

[fiery shard]

what kind of ponds do they survive in? i haven't seen a single deino since the fish nerf. only juves

[covert osprey]

semantics

[dusky surge]

thats not a thing on any dinosaur

[worthy steeple]

it doesn’t, you need to change the manual attacks in the settings

[covert osprey]

well then my settings must be bugged and i just assumed it was an update

this game is difficult to find documentation on unless you're actively present throughout the lifetime

[dusky surge]

UNLESS you have manual alt bite off

[worthy steeple]

the ones with the water

[fiery shard]

i literally drink quietly on my tenonto from the central river and no one grabs me

[covert osprey]

i just assumed it was another nerf to deino tbh, anyway moving on from that

still stands that you can't survive off schools of fish forever

[dusky surge]

Honestly deinos rarely stay in the central river for some reason lol

[dusky surge]

Thank God for that

[covert osprey]

i don't mind that

[dusky surge]

The most recent patch both buffed elite fish spawns and reverted deino's horrid turn radius

[covert osprey]

just give me another way to actually survive

i don't see a buff in elite fish spawns

[worthy steeple]

there’s a lot of ai around

like insane amounts

[covert osprey]

actually in fact I see a buff in schooling fish

i know. i hear them. outside of the water.

what do you want me to do about that

[fiery shard]

just like the south swamp, just like the swamp, just like the east swamp. what's the reason hmmm? sarcasm

[dusky surge]

what?

theres only one swamp tf do you mean east swamp

how many swamps do you think there are

[fiery shard]

lol what

[dusky surge]

theres literally one big swamp idk what the hell you're talking about

[fiery shard]

there's been two swamps on the map

[worthy steeple]

where?

[fiery shard]

east/south

[dusky surge]

there's no east swamp

unless we're talking about the pond in east that is in a jungle and is no way a swamp

[covert osprey]

cheesy says that is a lake

[worthy steeple]

not that one

[covert osprey]

i call it a pond since i picture a lake to not have swamp features

[worthy steeple]

it’s not a spawn

[fiery shard]

with water like a swamp. ok

[dusky surge]

yea thats def a pond

[covert osprey]

yeah but when i say a swamp, i picture a massive sprawling environment, land and water

this is mainly just water so, pond

[dusky surge]

but none of the actual ecological elements of a swamp

it literally just has mossy water. by that logic, literally the MOMENT a body of water has moss, swamp

[worthy steeple]

you were talking about water access, we’re talking about east plains pond

[covert osprey]

no, i'm talking about northeast pond/lake/swamp

[dusky surge]

there's another few tiny ponds around the map with moss on them and no one calls them swamps, idk why we're convinced this jungle pond is suddenly a swamp

[worthy steeple]

you said it’s a spawn, but it’s not

[covert osprey]

the one i'm referring to, is

[worthy steeple]

it’s not?

[covert osprey]

you can spawn there completely separated from all rivers and everything else

[dusky surge]

are we talking about North East lake?

[worthy steeple]

this one?

[covert osprey]

yes

[worthy steeple]

it’s not a spawn tho

[dusky surge]

thats the eastern pond brother

[worthy steeple]

unless they changed stuff recently

[covert osprey]

it, is a spawn

exactly. northeast pond.

[dusky surge]

sorry im confused

are we talking about the one in northeast next to the volcano

[covert osprey]

LMAOO

[worthy steeple]

hm, why would they make a spawn. it’s not even connected to anything

[dusky surge]

or the one in the jungle which everyone calls a swamp

[covert osprey]

the one in the pic. it is a spawn location. i spawned there last night

[dusky surge]

as what

[worthy steeple]

you sure about that?

[fiery shard]

i have same question

[covert osprey]

why would I not be sure about that

do you think i spent 8 hours in this location to not be sure about it

[worthy steeple]

idk it’s just weird spawn location

[covert osprey]

yeah i think we're all in agreement here

[worthy steeple]

there’s no players there, how did you survive even?

[covert osprey]

i'm literally starving right now because AI is not enough

this is my whole point on why something has to be done

[fiery shard]

Every time I get spawned there I just wait 10 minutes to drown

[covert osprey]

anyway herbies get grazing

[worthy steeple]

yeah, ai should NOT feed fg deino

[covert osprey]

then what's the solution lmao

[worthy steeple]

you can walk on land to the river tho, it’s not that far away

[covert osprey]

you absolutely cannot

[covert osprey]

unless you get rain mutation and forced mutations are not fun, regardless long distance land travel is always extremely risky

[fiery shard]

for what? I'll just try to spawn in a normal place - water access

[covert osprey]

the point still stands that it should just be more feasible

[worthy steeple]

it’s up to you

[covert osprey]

playing deino shouldn't be so punishing

[fiery shard]

ofc

[worthy steeple]

it’s not if you’re playing in populated areas

it is when you’re playing somewhere far away or in random pond

[covert osprey]

populated is not guaranteed regardless of where you are

[worthy steeple]

tho i guess some deinos can survive even in the smallest ponds

[worthy steeple]

not really, south plains is always busy, highlands are busy, there’s always players at delta. it’s a migration for both teno and maia also spawn a location

[covert osprey]

south plains is basically inaccessible to deinos

[worthy steeple]

highlands especially, it’s constant hotspot

[worthy steeple]

it’s absolutely not, tho it’s not that easy to get there, that’s for sure

[covert osprey]

and highlands being a hotspot means it's even less likely you make it there on land

[worthy steeple]

i did that myself few times

[covert osprey]

yeah but the point still stands. deino shouldn't be making long distance land travel like that and being punished so hard for it being necessary

i'm not saying it's impossible

[worthy steeple]

i agree, deino should stay in lakes

[covert osprey]

i'm saying i don't enjoy punishing myself to play the game like other people who don't have to

[fiery shard]

don't quite agree. it's very easy to get there from new swamp if the hunger is above 70%

the problem is, there's probably already a deino there and he's not alone

[covert osprey]

idk that's a long distance.

you more than likely need reabsorption

[fiery shard]

why?..

[covert osprey]

what's the thirst timer again?

[fiery shard]

u just walk through the swamp and water to sp...

and i went from hl to sp without mutation. At the end of the journey my health bar was yellow

[covert osprey]

well yeah, that's still sacrificing probably half your health for just a chance to survive somewhere where other people are

[fiery shard]

ye, i just like to walk the map on croc, lol

[covert osprey]

again i'm not saying it's not doable, but the fact that you're half dead, barely alive etc. is the punishing part

[worthy steeple]

the biggest deinos issue is deino itself, being the only semi-aquatic (sorry beipi) and an apex at the same time leaves no other choice but nerf it so the game is more fair for the rest of the roster.

adding deino that early was a mistake imo. tho it was the reason many many players started playing evrima.

[covert osprey]

i literally stated this earlier

[fiery shard]

uh, sure. I agree with that

[worthy steeple]

i would rather have bary or sucho honestly

[covert osprey]

i think the craziest part is them adding another aquatic that is... tiny

and not even a food source nor real prey for deinos

those aren't aquatics

i mean, i see your point but deino really is more than a semi-aquatic

it NEEDS to be in the water every five minutes or so

it needs other creatures that need to be in water in the same manner. otherwise none of it makes sense

[fiery shard]

adding deino that early was a mistake
this. i agree that deino should have been added after rex/trike. better still later

[worthy steeple]

can’t wait for the austro to kill even more fresh spawn deinos, make their life pain

[covert osprey]

way later. after other semi aquatics were already added.

at least something else would be in the water

[cosmic pelican]

[fiery shard]

ye

[worthy steeple]

same with the bary and sucho

[covert osprey]

bro just hates deino lmao

[worthy steeple]

I FORGOR TO TEST STUFF

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-walk-away-tiger-gif-13828540

[worthy steeple]

real

[worthy steeple]

IM SORRY IM SORRY ‼️‼️‼️

[indigo abyss]

its not when carno can ram you 24/7, out of all the dinos ive experienced when the game is lagging carno is by far the worst, i get away from stegos and ceras easily, but with carno i get hit from a mile away because of the busted ram, so no carno definitely benefits more from it

[eager saddle]

Still, nerfing a dino because of ping and latency issues is simply not fair because that’s not how the game is most of the time.

[indigo abyss]

they did it to omni, they did it for teno, and its not fair that carno is beyond broken either lol, but everyone thinks its fine that a carno can insta charge and do max ram damage every time and the reasoning isnt just about ping, i was mainly pointing out that they do benefit more from it

[eager saddle]

Huh? When did they do that?

[indigo abyss]

early evrima before the new map came out, for teno it focused more on the tail slam while the other focused on omni's pounce since it watch latching people a dino away when ping and or latency was introduced, which is why a lot of the hackers at the time were mainly using those because it benefited them when they used other software and vpn

[eager saddle]

Carno is not broken tho. Its ram is very easy to avoid unless you’re lagging I guess

And it runs in a straight line

[cosmic pelican]

"Doing the full dmg instantly" that just isnt true

[indigo abyss]

carno can counter act it by stopping the ram and changing direction and reactivating instantly, ive ran around carnos and still get hit, i never run in a straight when fighting them, but once one hits you, its knocking you over, especially if the game registers it as a body, i used to play carno a lot, but it just doesnt seem fair for everyone else and ruins the overall fun for me, i feel like people should be able to fight back atleast not get run down

[cosmic pelican]

A tap charge is a measily 100dmg

[indigo abyss]

yes it is lol, ive done testing with it

[cosmic pelican]

Its 100dmg

[eager saddle]

Also, suppose you are right okay. What would you nerf about it that it doesn’t affect normal gameplay?

[indigo abyss]

you need to put in consideration the mutations

[cosmic pelican]

It has to travel 6000cm before it can stun/knock down, which is like 3 seconds of charging

[eager saddle]

No, because mutations are situational. Also which mutation would affect it?

[indigo abyss]

the damage ones come into play

[cosmic pelican]

With all dmg mutations it doesnt go above like 120

And lets be honest going for an all dmg mut carno isnt the play

Since youre missing out on important utility

[indigo abyss]

bleed, low hunger on damage, plus the overall damage it does, and a lot of people do it sadly troodon

[cosmic pelican]

What you listed is +20%dmg at most

Which is 120

Thats less than a cera bite

And the carno has to be starving and needs to bite you beforehand

[indigo abyss]

which is very doable, troodon lol, like ive said ive played enough carno to tell its busted, it used to be more strategic and you had to play smart but now its just run in turn around charge turn around charge, then their dead, ive killed ceras that way, ive easily killed dilo and utahs that way i get they are smaller so yeah they are gonna die faster, heck ive even done it to teno, short story they should at least, put a small cooldown on the charge, not a terribly long one, but one where people cant just abuse the same thing over and over again

[crimson crater]

ragebait 1/10, had me for a second there can’t lie

[indigo abyss]

just a small cooldown so its not so spammy

[indigo abyss]

its not ragebait, i play carno lol

[crimson crater]

would you like to try my cera, show me how “op” it is

[indigo abyss]

and this is just you throwing ego here, im literally going based off of observation and play time

[crimson crater]

i don’t see any proof

[indigo abyss]

last time i checked though this is a feedback and discussion not throw ego around and act tough 🤔

[crimson crater]

act tough? lmao

carno is underperforming if anything

[indigo abyss]

this is an example lol for one, throwing call of duty 1v1 in the mix is acting better/tough. as well as throwing ego around, idc about your cera, but other people are definitely not having fun with how carno is and i feel bad for them lol, especially since i play the thing, you can run people down so easily with it, only time your really gonna have a huge problem is through bleed, hallucinations, stego, dibble, and you say underperforming, ive being seeing carnos/omni/herrera/dilo everywhere in official, and way less ceras, so idk what to tell you

[crimson crater]

how is a cera going to lose to a carno. just stand still and trade 345 charged bite dmg for their pitiful 100-170

[indigo abyss]

you do realize not everyone plays like you right

[crimson crater]

why would you balance something around skill issues?

[indigo abyss]

this has nothing to do with skill, youre the only one bringing skill up in this situation

[crimson crater]

i’m not, a cera who plays it right won’t ever die to a carno

you know that logic could be used to justify carno buffs right

“i died to 2 omnis as a carno”

[iron tree]

@spring wave hell nah 6.0 Carno was overtuned

And that's coming from a carno main

[tropic horizon]

Literally the most broken and unbalanced version of carno in the game maybe second to gateway launch carno

[iron tree]

Gateway launch Carno was terrible

[tropic horizon]

Insta ram carno was so boring to play as and against

[dusky surge]

it was insanely overpowered

[shadow vortex]

Instant acceleration + 350 instant ram damage + instant knockdown even for Teno-sized things. How did we even survive that lol…

[iron tree]

I didn't play much Carno but I did fight it as pachy

[shadow vortex]

I don’t remember though if it had the extreme stamina penalty back then.

[iron tree]

I think it did until the Carno size nerf

Pachy is honestly really underrated

People call it bad even though it's more than able to punch up above its weight

[vale brook]

ehhh i think mutations were the straw that broke pachys back

[iron tree]

Definitely not

[dusky surge]

in U6, pachy was arguably even more insanely overpowered

now its kinda ass

like honestly pachy is the worst herbi in the game imho by a longshot

[iron tree]

Tactical endurance saved pachy

[iron tree]

It wouldn't call it the worst herbi

[vale brook]

stuns self when correctly using ability, allowing target to get free bites in
has a mutation that directly counters it
simply dies to any cerato that has speed mutation when it itself does not
struggles with raptors, less so now however
can accidently launch itself off the side of slopes because for some reason ram is more of throwing yourself at the target instead of ramming

[iron tree]

Tbf

That's just cera

[dusky surge]

i absolutely would. its utter garbage

[iron tree]

Cera is hypercharged

[iron tree]

Hypsi, dryo and beipi.

And not to mention current maia.

[vale brook]

beipi is an omnivore, hypsi and dryo have far more survivability than pachy does

current maia is fine? 😭

[iron tree]

Pachy can still survive (excluding cera ofc)

[iron tree]

2-3 dilos and you're dead

[dusky surge]

beipi isnt even a herbi, and by far it is a better animal than pachy

i genuinely think even dryo and hypsi are better

[iron tree]

Or a cera

[tropic horizon]

Pachy is better than maia, maia has all the same problems that Pachy has but multiplied by like, 10.

[dusky surge]

at least maia is fast lol

but maia is also bad, yes

[vale brook]

theres this fun mechanic called shift + w that will 100% save you from a cerato as maia every single time

[tropic horizon]

Dryo is definitely better than pachy though, very survivable and good people just don’t play it.

[dusky surge]

for sure

[vale brook]

dryo is fun, i just want burrowing

[dusky surge]

honestly, hypsis small size, massive stam and exceptional agility make it near impossible to catch

hypsi def isnt great tho

[vale brook]

gib climb

[iron tree]

I usually consider beipi and galli as herbis as their diet isn't really as carnivorous as our diet for example mb ^^"

Tbf hypsi and dryo are missing 2 key mechanics

[dusky surge]

and yet i find them better than pachy LMAO

[iron tree]

Dryo will probably be like: run, dodge and get to your burrow asap

[tropic horizon]

Maia is the culmination of all the jank and clunkiness Pachy had but placed onto another playable. It’s so horrible to control and gets punished for like, everything it does it’s truly spectacular. Pachy and maia definitely need a lot of love rn.

[iron tree]

Personal preference I guess

[tropic horizon]

Yeah the unfinished animals are better than the fully complete animal…

[iron tree]

Dilophosaurus:

[tropic horizon]

Can’t forget carno either, or the odd galli herd though that’s a very rare occasion.

[iron tree]

True

Galli is actually peak

[tropic horizon]

Also raptors with speed mutations if you yourself don’t have em.

[iron tree]

I wish it still had its bleed

[tropic horizon]

Speed alone ain’t enough to save yourself sometimes as that poor animal.

[iron tree]

And got a little weight buff

But even after its nerf I don't struggle too much when beating up raptors

[tropic horizon]

Galli is just fine rn, most survivable animal in the game rn I’d say.

[iron tree]

If its quadrupedal attacks were a bit faster it'd be fine

Speed mutations ruined the balance ngl

[dusky surge]

oh they did, absolutely

[dusky surge]

honestly? tac endurance is kinda not great on pachy. i'd rather it on herbis with higher stam costs and more health

[tropic horizon]

Here’s the changes I’d want for it:
Acceleration buff, it really didn’t need to have this much acceleration which while you can bypass (sometimes) is still frustrating to play with

Stamina buffs to its attacks it currently exhausts itself very quickly with its attacks which is absurd.

Buff to the speed of its attacks so that you aren’t stuck in end lag half the time you try to use your attacks.

And finally allow stance swapping while being injured because it’s just unnecessary jank piled onto an already clunky playable.

[iron tree]

It's still worth it. I got hit by a cera, got enough stam back for a bonk and killed it. I was low on health too and literally only survived because of tact

[dusky surge]

okay but thats a super niche situation where you NEED that stam, which wont regularly be happening

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message @proper berry what do u mean

[eager saddle]

There is a lot that dies to 2-3 dilos🤣

[indigo rain]

Kissen described quetz as being a terror for herras with an avatar gif so...thatll be funny to see later lol

[iron tree]

maia weighs 3.8 tons

it shouldn't die to 2 dilos THAT easily 😭

[shadow vortex]

Dilos just prevent Maias from switching stances effectively, as they’re faster and more nimble than Maia is in bipedal. That’s why devs just need to allow Maia to switch stances if bitten… The amount of back kicks those nasty Dilos would get after it if they dare to tail ride.

[eager saddle]

just run.

you outrun and outstam them

[iron tree]

incorrect

[indigo rain]

Maias are slightly slower than dilos. Your best bet as a maia is to cross water to make them slow down considerably and flee that way.

[hasty coyote]

You don’t. Dilos are faster and they will kill you before they run out of stam.

[eager saddle]

in general or with mut?

[eager saddle]

only one of them was incorrect tho

[iron tree]

yah

[viscid mica]

@sick hare stego has a very slow stomach drain as strong you need to be constantly going to patrols and migration if you don’t it’s obvious you would starve

[sick hare]

ive not been able to get over 30 percent

[viscid mica]

Follow migration and patrol zones

Food isn’t the issue I’ve grown stego afew times without issue on the food side if food was a issue dibble and Maia would be feeling it too as they are also vacuums

Also read what diet spawn where bush based diets are way better for filling you up that the fruits as they give nothing

[idle oasis]

Aight: This game for the price is worth a try, but the way players are playing is running it into the ground. I bought it last week and been learning and playing it. Growing is fun, getting into Herbi or Raptor packs is amazing. The game mechanics is cool although the hunger goes down stupidly fast. Then you realize you're never under 100 ping unless its 03h00A.m. cause the servers are constantly jam packed. So Eu players mix with NA players and vice versa. At first I didn't think it would matter until I died 3 times in a row from someone bitting me from 100ft away. Then there is the 6 Cera packs that just dominates, cause if I was 12 year old, this is how I would play it as well I guess... Then there is the mix packing where a Raptor will call you non stop until you call it twice and get insta kill by a pack of 4 Cera, 2 Diblos, a Ptero (cause gotta have eyes in the skies as well...) and the baiting raptor this time... It might be the way you guys saw this game, But it defeats my purpose of playing it. Hope my feedback is appreciated.

[warm flax]

you are not alone here

[viscid mica]

The mass majority of the community hate mix packers

[uncut trellis]

@pallid dagger How are you fighting the Diablo? And what as?

[viscid mica]

Ya fr dibble isn’t op at all

[pallid dagger]

Cera, baiting his charge/knock then give him a charged or alt bite

[uncut trellis]

I’d recommend using only charge bites, don’t use alt attacks since they leave you stationary. Hit and run, don’t stay close to the Diablo for too long or else you’ll get pummeled. And watch those running flip attacks, good Diablo players know it’s one of their best moves and will run and drift a lot, you’re just gonna have to focus on out maneuvering them. Takes practice

[pallid dagger]

gotcha will try to do that thanks for advice!

[uncut trellis]

👍

No problem!

[iron tree]

Why would you fight a dibble as a cera

[slim dragon]

@swift crest Is this a joke ?
In case it's not, allow me to remind you that :

1. Beipi is slower than deino in the water.
   2.12 Beipis is A LOT, I think that's more than I've seen in all my combined playtime.
2. 34 hits each ? So 408 total hits for beipi to kill deino. That's not OP at all, considering deino only needs one hit to kill every one of them.
3. Deino does not take 12 hours to grow...

[eager saddle]

I play mostly deino and I had a good chuckle at it I thought it was a joke as well

[dusky surge]

Look on the bright side. Beipi is a tiny tier people actually complain about in balance feedback for being too strong. This means it’s actually in a decent spot

[slim dragon]

I still believe it's a joke

[vale brook]

@swift crest what

[cursive saddle]

Do you guys think that the headbutt of a pachy needs a little buff,bc it no longer stuns,and when it does the headbutt attack it stops which that can be terrible against bigger enemies

[iron tree]

I think it should stun when breaking bones

Means you can stun something three times

[cursive saddle]

Yeah and also when headbutting you stop completely momentarily,thats terrible against bigger and multiple opponents

[rain sequoia]

Either we keep encountering hackers or their knockdown attack hitbox is busted as hell. You are noticeably far away enough to not get hit but still get knocked down

[woven wind]

Pteranodon stamina is so low and slow... It should be able to replenish faster, you spend most of your time doing almost nothing instead of flying across the map

[versed sable]

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/jihSnmplXa47PYtAt?invite=cr-MSxLU2QsMjg4NjAyNDY3LA yall tell me if this is balanced and just skill issue or if dibble needs nerf against stego or is hacking (i couldn't swing my tail even when timing my hits)

[hasty coyote]

clip does not exist.
However, with the way power swing works atm, you only need to hit a diablo once to kill it with the second swing, unless an attack hits the head and you don't get a 3rd swing off. So stego is generally far from defenseless unless the diablo is lag teleporting on your face. Though I can agree, diablo has no reason to be stunning stego atm other than to just bully stegos in a group.

[timber tusk]

Mix packs are a problem for sure. It’s just bullying, plain and simple. I’m hoping that the devs will come up with a good way to discourage that. It’s tricky tho. They could play with buffs and debuffs, but other than specifically a corpse de-buff to make herbivores stay away from dead bodies, I can’t think of anything.

Also, I’m sure some people scout as Ptera, if you ever see me up there, I promise you I am either rubbernecking (just watching the drama play out) or looking for an opening to peck a mix pack Maia in the eye.

[timber tusk]

Honestly, I think the amount of stamina is fine, it’s the recharge time that is so rough. I shouldn’t be able to get up and make myself a coffee, only to still be recharging stam.

Since landing at all is already so risky for the game’s only flyer, I think it’d be okey to give us faster stamina regen.

[indigo rain]

Going down often is fine and stops scouting. Its the recharge thats disproportionately long yeah.

Also adding a debuff for bodies of a certain weight on up (maybe half your weight) as a herb might be a good idea

[hasty coyote]

Buff and debuffs are a really poor way of doing it because then you just replace one problem with a new one: false positives and people abusing said debuffs.

[hasty coyote]

Me crying in a corner as the pack of 3 ceras get buffed on their dead friends body while I slowly get debuffed.

[idle oasis]

Today, so far so good. Although pretty certain some salty kid straight up sold me out to a bigger croc cause I ate him (It's a hard croc life... for us...). I can only imagine how hard it is to moderate and balance. I expect most people to see the issue and decides not to play this way. But then again, without expectation, you cannot be disappointed. I hope my comment wasn't perceive as too harsh. P.s Stay away from me X-large pigeon, I'm skin and bones 😉

[indigo rain]

So, lets do this hypothetical. Cera is 1.3k. The only herb this would affect is teno (1.6k) and its not facetanking 3 ceras

Cera is less than half of diablo, maia, and stegos weight- so no debuff for them

Mind, its not perfect, but it would stop camping to some degree

Mixpacking is a whole other issue and one i think needs to slowly stack up against you over multiple playthroughs. Mixpackers often play with the same people so its just a matter of matching usernames but diff species and going "ah this is a mixpack"

[hasty coyote]

So then why would we need the mechanic in the first place? The issue is when a much larger herbie (like stego) body guards against something smaller (like cera). So what issue is this solving?

[indigo rain]

It wouldnt resolve that case unfortunately, due to needing to avoid griefing by sending a small carni to die to a small herb to debuff it. So i guess we will see what the devs decide

Though dragging bodies does take stam so

[hasty coyote]

Then that kinda prevents players from stopping mixpacking. Because if your account is deemed a mixpaker, you are now just at a disadvantage for not mixpacking. Plus alt accounts exist.

[indigo rain]

True. So, what do other games do to stop that kind of sabotage?

What does league do? What does any competetive team game do?

What do other survival games do?

[timber tusk]

I at least think a revers Cera Buff on herbivores would discourage corpse camping behavior, but otherwise I agree. The people optimizing the fun out of the game by mix packing would find new ways to meta game instead of playing fair.

Here’s a thought tho… I’ve heard the term “body down” a lot in rules. What if, when a carnivore actually gets a kill, lands the lethal blow, that carnivore gets a BIG buff to their defense, IF they stay near the corpse. Servers with body down rules seem to want everyone else to back off if a carnivore gets a kill, no revenge, they got that kill, ideally fair and square. Requiring them to be close to the body would prevent them from going on a rampage, and would just make them dangerous to approach.

I dunno, still could be abused I think, but using mechanics to encourage distance between two parties… I think there’s something there…

[true abyss]

Just make herbivores food drain more they won’t hang about as long and make it so they have to follow the migration to stay alive if that’s possible 🤷‍♂️

[indigo rain]

Ngl instead of large sweeping changes adding in a small one every now and again might help gradually curb that behavior?

[hasty coyote]

Body camping is a non-issue imo. Because that same player could be a carnivore and do the same thing but it wouldn’t be seen as an issue. However, my best solution for mixpacking is to just ruin the trolling aspect of it by throwing a huge warning sign of your location:

#general-feedback message

[indigo rain]

That definetly would be a good start! Lol

[true abyss]

But carnivores sat over there kills and protected them that’s natural in game simulation i think but herbivores would of stayed a bit and moved on they don’t do that in this they sit for hours on end killing carnivores 🤷‍♂️

[timber tusk]

I’m going to say Reverse Cera Buff again. Said Stego would be taking an automatic defense debuff by being on that corpse for more than 30sec(?), making it a juicier target as a punishment for corpse camping. Then it that debuff doubles once the corpse goes rotten? It would make it so that big herbivores would want nothing to do with any corpse, at the risk of getting one-shot by a Herera or Troodon.

Definitely would need a timer tho, so that a pack of omnis couldn’t just have a sacrificial member who dies on purpose to debuff. And I think small herbivores should have either more time or less debuff. A Dryosaur is not going to be an effective corpse camper to begin with, no need to debuff that.

[true abyss]

Give it sickness for being near corpses ? 🤮

[hasty coyote]

Generally they have stats and admins who can flag and ban people, but with an issue like this it’s kinda impossible. Like how can you tell the difference between a pack of dilos 3rd partying another fight and then 1 side leaves. and those same dilos being with that side from the beginning? And even if you could, what could you do to prevent people from actively negating your system by making by it seem like one side is separate?

[timber tusk]

That would help, though I’d pair it with making plants a bit more filling. Realistically, big herbivores pack away tons and tons of food a day to survive, while some carnivores eat a couple times a month, and overeat when they can, to keep from starving.

[true abyss]

Yeah sickness is in game already just need to adjust it to the herbivores 👌

[timber tusk]

Honestly, the trick will be getting people to stop playing like this is a competitive game at all. There are no leaderboards and you cannot win The Isle. In spite of that, we still get Maias stomping fresh spawned Pteras like they get points for it.

[true abyss]

Yeah it’s silly really tbh

[indigo rain]

Perhaps that will come once more content is added tbh

[true abyss]

They already count kills etc on unofficials

[hasty coyote]

I really don’t like that because it honestly feels entirely like carni bias. Like say a pack of raptors is trying to kill a Rex, then the Rex kills one and gets a massive buff, meanwhile if those same raptors went after a trike and lost a member, that trike would get no buff. Plus that only benefits solo dinos. And again, I really don’t see corpse guarding as an issue. Carnivores do the exact same thing but worse, they actually eat the body. While it feels more toxic when a herbie does it, it really ain’t as bad. Especially since they do it because they’re bored, so just leave ‘em for like 5 mins and they will be gone 9/10 times.

[timber tusk]

I’m gonna be watching Rex close. If they can launch the biggest carnivore in a way that prevents mix packing or over packing with it, I’ll be impressed and encouraged.

[hasty coyote]

That also kinda sucks because then herbies just have horrible QoL. They already get very little from food so thhey have to constantly be looking for more. Plus that again doesn’t solve the issue because grass

[true abyss]

Could they not make it that you can only group as same species but gotta have half males half females and gotta nest with other at some point or u have to go alone 🤷‍♂️

[hasty coyote]

Me crying in the corner defending my nest from Omnis while I just get weaker because I killed one, but I can’t move or I bleed heavily.

[hasty coyote]

If it’s anything like deino, it’s gonna be incredibly hard to mixpack purely because you can’t sustain yourself.

[true abyss]

That’s true

[hasty coyote]

(I hope)

[true abyss]

Ha ha yeah me too lol 😂

[timber tusk]

It would benefit a pack by proxy. If one member of the pack is suddenly untouchable, and the other players obviously can’t tell which one got the buff, then the whole pack is suddenly a much bigger gamble to charge. And honestly, the game is pretty herbi-biased at the moment. Carnivores have no tools to scare a Stego off of their only meal, while Stego can graze and stand there forever, with the right mutations. Dibble and Maia too, they’re all too dangerous to be moved by anything other than a big group.

BUT

[timber tusk]

That’s what I’m hoping. Anyone who tries to mix pack as a Rex will realize that turning on their friends would be much easier and more satisfying than running with a mix pack that can’t keep up with their needs and damage.

[dusky surge]

maia struggles against, like, 2 dilos lol idk what you mean about maia being dangerous

honestly i dont really see the herbi bias unless we're just talking size. They're bigger, that's about it

Actually playing dibble, maia or stego, each one has a large helping of jank to really screw you over in a fight or make it difficult to actually do anything

[hasty coyote]

The “herbie bias” is more the issue of us not having a large carnivore to deal with them (which we will soon). Id rather we just fix the root issue rather than add more complications.

[timber tusk]

Body Down buff could apply to herbivores too then, as a Defender buff, and maybe overwrite the reverse Cera buff. Suddenly the carnivores face a tougher opponent, BUT, only the defender who downed the Omni gets that buff. Any other Dibbles in the herd will want to stand so many paces away from the corpse. And if the Defender Buff were mobile, not locked to the location of the corpse, then a herd could move on with their vicarious defense in tact. Both parties should be able to recover from the encounter.

That would also benefit small carnivores like Troodon and Ptera. Nesting herbivores would maybe want some Pteranodons, fresh spawns, land Deinos, or omnivores to swing by and eat the corpses to get rid of the debuff effect for them.

[timber tusk]

Yeah, I don’t think any of the ideas thrown around in here need to be implemented in a hurry. I just hope the devs are combing through for ideas.

[timber tusk]

Actually, I just thought of something good! Let Dryo and any other burrowing herbivores BURRY CORPSES to remove all corpse related effects. Dryo is too vulnerable to form big herds on their own, and this would give them a reason to welcomed into other herds.

[hasty coyote]

That would actually really hurt pack hunters, as the moment they lose a single member the fight becomes 2x as hard. Troodons would just go completely extinct as their main gimmick swarming and just regrowing lost members would be pretty much useless.

[hasty coyote]

So, let’s make body guarding worse by making mixpackers have a way around it…

Still, the best way to fix the body guarding is literally coming soon, rex. Like do you see tenos body guarding commonly? Want to know why not? Because they have actual threats to deal with. Diablo and stego don’t really have threats atm, so the best way for them to get some action is to force people to fight them while they have no worry of something bigger coming to kill them. Once Rex comes, most things will want to get away from a body or risk a Rex coming.

[timber tusk]

No one would mix pack with a Dryo anyhow. I’m talking about your nest, brother. In the game as is, if you killed an Omni and the rest ran away, that corpse is going to rot in your nest site, drawing in more carnivores, Carno and Cera. So as is currently, you’d benefit from a carnivore that would eat the corpse but not threaten your herd, like a Ptera. Alternative to that tho, imaging if a Dryo who saw the fight popped in and buried it for you. Dryo benefits from being surrounded by bigger herbivores for a bit, you benefit by removing the compass market pointing to your eggs.

[timber tusk]

Agreed. I play Ptera and have been actively HUNTED by Maias. As in they killed a land Deino, I waited until they were behind trees to land and eat (meaning I posed as little threat or nuisance as possible), and they waited until I was locked into the eating animation to run out and try to kill me.

They’re BORED. But Rex aught to give them something bigger to worry about.

[hasty coyote]

If you give dryo a use, then it’s gonna be mixpacked with. And idk what a smaller carnivore would be able to do with a body, unless it’s also tiny, they ain’t putting a dent in it.

[timber tusk]

But only one gets buffed, and a defense buff isn’t going to magically heal bleed. It would make it harder, but not impossible for smart hunters.

[hasty coyote]

Still harder, which is a direct nerf to pack hunters while solo hunters stay the same. Which just kinda enforced the bigger is better mentality.

[timber tusk]

A fresh spawn Cera has a bottomless stomach, it can clear a copse, bones and all. And if Pteras feel safe, you’ll get a flock of five or so in a hurry. That can also pack away a lot of meat, especially since their stomachs empty fast too.

I think that there is a niche for scavengers that isn’t being filled, even though starving is a constant risk for carnivores.

[timber tusk]

Well the solo Hunter would be dead in this scenario, so it wouldn’t exactly affect them negatively or positively. They’re already making a new Dino on the start menu.

But yeah, let’s see what Rex can do. Can all the Rex players just agree to be cool?

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/kratos-gif-27642080

[timber tusk]

I watched a mixed pack of 2 Maia, 1 Dibble, at least 1 Teno, and a small thing like a Troodon dominate the Saltwater Lake waterfall for over an hour. They massacred at least three Carnos and corpse camped those bodies for a long time. They ran off a lot of small to midsized carnivores while I flew around, wishing I could do damage.

They eventually got run off by something, but nobody was willing to really test them for a WHILE. I didn’t see what got em, but it was a server with a LOT of Dilo calls, so I both disagree and agree with you. 😅

[timber tusk]

Come on! Pretty please! 😅

[timber tusk]

Actually, instead, I’ve thought for a while that nested pairs should get some kind of buff. There is very VERY little incentive to actually nest, but if a nesting buff could defend you from other debuffs and increase your overall survivability, that could be nice. Maybe a nest would last longer than the first time something attacked the parents, in that case, and parents would have an easier time feeding their babies.
After all, in think Nesting Grounds has been a thing the devs have talked about wanting to implement, but haven’t managed to.

[dusky surge]

to be fair, they had literally a team of 4 vs a game primarily consisting of solos. There's not much one can do against a numbers advantage like that without a considerable size advantage

[dusky surge]

They did add nesting grounds, just not to Gateway yet

[timber tusk]

I mean, the first thing they fought was a group of five Carnos, and only two Carnos got away alive. It was rough.

[dusky surge]

i mean... like... they're carnos tho

[timber tusk]

They weren’t tiny Carnos either.

[dusky surge]

like i feel that using carnos as an example here kinda isn't entirely fair since those animals are not meant to fight a majority of what was in that group

[worthy steeple]

i always body guard as a herbivore tbh.
i would not if carnivores didnt use the gastro

[dusky surge]

TRUE LOL

[worthy steeple]

but with the gastro in the game ur forced to body guard

[dusky surge]

you're actively encouraged to otherwise it WILL be back for you

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[hasty coyote]

actually true, but thats just gastro being the bane of balance

[timber tusk]

Well, that’s what they killed first, so 🤷‍♀️. Nothing else that passed near wanted to risk it, and that included at least a couple Cera, but mostly various juveniles. Maia supremacy reigned for while there.

[worthy steeple]

yeah

fought 5 cera cheaters today lol. had to body guard so they wont regen

but there was like million ai pigs running around, so they got full hp easily

[timber tusk]

What the heck is a gastro??

[worthy steeple]

tho i killed one of the losers ahah

[worthy steeple]

eat to heal

[hasty coyote]

gastronomic regeneration. its a mutation that allows you to eat things and immediately gain health. and for cera, it can keep chugging while at full hunger to just heal to full

[timber tusk]

Ooooooh. I kinda get it, but if you leave, and they come back at you, just hit ‘em again. The distance they have to go each time to heal will get bigger, and it’s a losing battle for them… but maybe I’ve not played Herbi enough to really know…

And that definitely doesn’t excuse Maias hunting me as a Ptera. Let little guys eat.

[hasty coyote]

its very fair and balanced

[timber tusk]

If anything, gastro would give you MORE reason to let smaller carnivores eat away at the corpse.

So you don’t have to sit there forever.

[dusky surge]

Quite the opposite

You don't want to keep being hunted

[hasty coyote]

or you can try and make sure they dont heal to begin with, because it doesnt matter how many times you hit them away when they come back at full hp and inevitably just face tank you to death.

Tho with the ptera thing, thats just gonna happen regardless of what you do, because people are people

[dusky surge]

If you let them eat, they will heal to full and get right back on your ass

[worthy steeple]

and funny thing is that cera can overeat without puking so it can regenerate infinitely, you think the bleed matters? no. they have 50% bleed resistance and 50% more near the body. sweet

[crimson crater]

they will eventually bleed out

[dusky surge]

Once they heal from the corpse, they're on full health, you're not, they have the advantage, and they will take advantage of it

[hasty coyote]

if your dino has bleed

[dusky surge]

which many herbis do not

[crimson crater]

herbis can gastro

[dusky surge]

ok

[hasty coyote]

but they can't from grass and they can't overeat like cera can.

[timber tusk]

That’s what’s confusing me. If you corpse camp, you’re hanging out on a bit “come eat me” sign that every carnivore for miles can see, and the one or two carnivores your actually trying to deny aren’t going to be your biggest problem for long.

Better that something less threatening cleans up the meat, so that you can face the carnivores without the threat of them healing and not draw in more of them. Cera had the best sense of smell in the game, so they can track that from way far off.

[crimson crater]

patrol zones and migrations:

[dusky surge]

unfortuantly, the alternative is for sure being hunted by that pack that now wants revenge after it's done eating off its wounds, so its kind of a lose lose

dont corpse guard, you'll be endurance hunted to oblivion

corpse guard and become target to potentially more predators

honestly, the corpse guarding presents less risk, because at least there's a chance no other predator will find you

plus, while you corpse guard, you can call for potential help

[timber tusk]

But the further you get, the more stamina they have to waste to get back to you. Send em back a couple times, and they’re fighting uphill. Corpses go away really fast when actual carnivores are allowed to eat them, so that is a very limited health pool for them to rely on, especially if there’s more than one.

[dusky surge]

it takes far longer for a herbivore to fill their stomach than a carni. What one corpse can do for a carni in terms of food requires almost a dozen fruit and plants. The healing value from gastro still easily goes to the carnivore

[worthy steeple]

good luck surviving that lol

[dusky surge]

The more stamina you have to waste trying to get rid of them, and they have the health advantage. They're still at a considerable resource advantage if you let them eat

[timber tusk]

Yeah, I guess I’d just rather hit the road. If they’re still hungry, let em try, and we’ll see who’s meaner. 🤷‍♀️