balance-feedback-discussion

[golden coral]

locked health

[leaden remnant]

ya locked health is so dumb

[cosmic pelican]

But still

[leaden remnant]

i get it, they want less fighting, but brother they are doing frickin crusades against fighting and ruining most aspects in futile attempts 😭

[cosmic pelican]

Back in spiro I had a cera with so much locked hp I only healed 0.01% per tick while sitting lmao

[leaden remnant]

like ffs fighting is a vital part of the game

[cosmic pelican]

Took almost an hour to get back to full hp

Was fun (no)

[leaden remnant]

bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it once took me 3 hours as a carno to go from 1hp to full hp

[golden coral]

Almost faster to regrow xD

[cosmic pelican]

Fr

But it already survived 4, 2 hour long sessions so I was kinda attached emotionally ngl

[leaden remnant]

fair

[dusky surge]

i dont think you understood the question

[cosmic pelican]

I honestly dread allos arrival.
If it uses the same logic for its pin and grapple as omni, may god have mercy on us all

[leaden remnant]

it's just gonna be walk up and pin something down

and same with rex

[cosmic pelican]

Growing a dibble for 4 hours just to get pinned and 1 shot by a rex🔥

[ripe finch]

Truly amazing gameplay 👏

[leaden remnant]

exactly what's gonna happen

[jovial vessel]

I hope allos have a good counter for when they come in, else they are likely going to be the only things in servers

[cosmic pelican]

That counter is probably going to be cera tbh. One vomit and the allo will starve to death if the ceras play passive.

Obviously in a 1v1 allo will win because of pin (yay so fun)

[distant torrent]

honestly I feel like heavily oppressive abilities like pin being brought to allo and rex will just encourage people to play bigger animals

literally why waste hours growing something that can be one shot when you can grow something bigger and actually have a chance to fight back

[hallow hinge]

i have a question why dilo hallucination spawns right next to me while i was resting on top of a rock ?

[leaden remnant]

they are supposed to be able to reach you anywhere

issue is that uhhhhhhhhhh you cant fight back

[hallow hinge]

what ??!

i got bited once and am dead ?

[hallow hinge]

i think u wrong mate cuz if its like that then there is no fun to play with other dinos

[crimson crater]

It could work by making them strictly for ambushes only.
Small hitbox, high stamina etc

[distant torrent]

even then the concept just isn’t fun. at least not for the person on the receiving end of the pin. if the pin/grapple isn’t essentially a copy and paste of how omni’s pin/grapple works, then it has a chance of being at least not miserable to go against

[worthy steeple]

i mean.. 99% of the roaster is faster than a rex or an allo

[leaden remnant]

they are just supposed to reach you anywhere

rn it's unfun as hell to fight one cause they facetank you and then run away while spamming clones

[distant torrent]

we don’t know official speeds yet. for all we know allo could be as fast as a teno (but I’d imagine it’d have worse stam)

but speed isn’t an excuse for an ability being absolutely unfun to deal with

[worthy steeple]

it won’t be as fast as teno xD
and wdym “we know” where did you get that info xd

[distant torrent]

“for all we know” is a hypothetical phrase

but it’s an ambush predator so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be able to reach teno’s speeds at some point or another. just don’t know for sure how it’s going to be balanced

could have decent speed and terrible stam, could be slow and have the legacy crouch speed burst, could have something else

all I know is the uninteractable one-shot pin/grapple does not need to be a thing and should at the very least have some sort of counter, kind of like bucking in a way

[crimson crater]

I mean allo and rex will be slow, why shouldn’t they be rewarded for a successful ambush? Difference with omni is that it has the speed to be oppressive

[distant torrent]

they can still be rewarded, the pin/grapple just shouldn’t be uninteractable and a simple hold-rmb-to-win ability. nothing wrong with making it more interactable and fair for both sides

[crimson crater]

Herrera is like this but you don’t think it’s bad do you?

I don’t see how it’s bad as long as it isn’t used in combat

[leaden remnant]

5-10% per charge bite wtf

[crimson crater]

The little lunge being brought back is pretty reasonable but the stamina? Hell no

[worthy steeple]

flows lmaoo xd

#balance-feedback message

oh nvm i read the whole feedback

[crimson crater]

That’s too much man, sure cera needs a slight nerf but not THAT

[distant torrent]

herrera’s ability takes leagues more skill than running up and holding right click

to be decent at herrera, you have to be good at judging speed and distance and time. it’s insanely easy to miss a jump. it’s also handicapped by needing to climb objects and being a walking duck on land

[worthy steeple]

no, cera needs massive nerf, but not like that

[crimson crater]

Fair enough

[crimson crater]

massive nerf? Not really just needs some few tweaks imo

[worthy steeple]

the thing that bothers me the most is the amount of buffs it has, at least some of them should be nerfed or removed

i dont want it nerfed to the ground just because i still want some kind of mid tier carnivore in game that is capable of killing tenos

[crimson crater]

Most of its matchups are pretty even I’d say, especially teno

It’s a 50/50 as it should be

[tall spear]

@crimson crater Cera doesn't need nerfs? It has insane bleed, good bleed resist, fast bite, strong bite, good hitbox, damage mitigation, decent speed, goldy stamina

The damn thing is probably the best hunter in the game

Especially when it is meant to be a corpse bully

Not an everything hunter

It also is not at all hard to grow

[crimson crater]

actually it has less stamina than most things, it’s bleed isn’t insane it’s just you who is receiving more of it because of the sickness, it’s bite hitbox is tiny, damadge mitigation got nerfed last patch, it’s one of the slowest dinos wym decent speed?

[tall spear]

Slowest dino?

You are tripping dude

[crimson crater]

one of the slowest can u read

[tall spear]

I've been able to run utahs down with a cerato

[crimson crater]

bro what?

My guy

you can’t outrun Utah’s unless u a speed hacker

[tall spear]

Also how is it's bleed average it does more then carno, utah and dilo

You can run them down if you manage stam right

[cosmic pelican]

You bleed 2x more after vomiting since your vitals are low

[tall spear]

I think you just dont know how to play cerato

[crimson crater]

Not at all, dilo and omni does more bleed. Carno has one of the worst bleed damadges in game so

[cosmic pelican]

Stam,hunger, water and hp affect how long u bleed

[crimson crater]

^^^

[tall spear]

Carno doesn't have bad bleed at all

Do you know any of the stats in this game?

[cosmic pelican]

Vomiting removes a ton of these

[crimson crater]

Yea I do actually

[worthy steeple]

alright need your opinion on this

remove or nerf the bleed resistance/same with the bleed it deals
slower its speed from 40 to 37 while its using its charge bite
make cera use its charge animation for as long as it wants
slower the swimming speed
make it gain bacteria only from the rotten corpes and bones

[cosmic pelican]

Carnos bite does minimal bleed wdym

[tall spear]

@cosmic pelican It doesn't matter, if it makes you vomit and that somehow affects bleed it will make you bleed out crazy fast

[cosmic pelican]

Its below average, worse than cerato

[tall spear]

Yeah thats what I said

Cerato ain't a bleeder and it does a lot of bleed

But lets see how this guy thinks i'm wrong

[crimson crater]

bleed resistance is fine, it dosent have a lot of health for its size so
It’s speed could get lowered I agree, 39.5 kmh is good imo

Rest are pretty unnecessary

[crimson crater]

it dosent

[tall spear]

I'm fine with the bleed resist, but all those things paired together can make a very powerful animal

[crimson crater]

Me when cera can get bled out by tenos, omnis, Herrera’s and stegos:

[worthy steeple]

38.5!

bleed res is not fine, its literally impossible to bleed cera out

[tall spear]

Cera takes more bleed damage when under 50% hp

And carno bleeds out almost twice as fast

[worthy steeple]

imo 60% is too much, 25% sounds fine to me

[golden coral]

Three of which are meant to do massive bleed.

[crimson crater]

no, if cera is 38 kmh how fast will Allo be?
and ceras can get bled out actually, once the 50% resistance is gone they bleed out faster than teno

[worthy steeple]

38.5 only with the charge bite, regular speed is still 40

[crimson crater]

that’s the only bleeders in the game rn

[crimson crater]

It dosent need the charged bite to slow it down, it’s base speed should slightly be reduced

[worthy steeple]

they're getting 50% bleed resistance near the bodies

[tall spear]

39.7 kph, 400 charge damage (adding back the recoil and a slight stam cost) 200 damage bite, keep the bleed resist, nerf the bacteria gain a tiny bit, slight stam nerf, stam regain buff, and drift buff

I think that's pretty OK

[crimson crater]

I’m talking about it’s bleed resistance. It’s only above 50% of your HP

[crimson crater]

Drastic changes

[tall spear]

I'm sure cera players can adapt, besides carno got basically it's entire kit changed in one update

Not many complained

[worthy steeple]

good to know, but 60% is still too much, and it also stacks with the body buff

[crimson crater]

Not many complained? Dude…

[crimson crater]

No it isn’t, like I said once the bleed resistance is gone they bled out pretty fast

[crimson crater]

don’t fight a cera that’s on a body then

[worthy steeple]

i never seen ceratos bleed out

like not even once

[crimson crater]

What are you playing as?

[worthy steeple]

teno, usually

[crimson crater]

I’ve been bled out by tenos, only takes 5 kicks

or so

[cosmic pelican]

1 powerswing from a sub stego is also enough if the cera doesnt sit

[crimson crater]

^, without the bleed resistance it would be too easy to beat

[worthy steeple]

i mean, thats a stego.

what did you expect?

[crimson crater]

A juvi-sub stego, not even fg

[cosmic pelican]

2-3 herrera jumps also do the trick

[crimson crater]

Besides literally everything but carno and dilo can bleed it out

[cosmic pelican]

You forgot troo 😦

[crimson crater]

3 is overkill, 2 is enough to seal its fate if it dosent sit down right away

[crimson crater]

who?

[leaden remnant]

(almost everything he said is wrong)

[worthy steeple]

tbf comparing cera and herra in general is wild

[leaden remnant]

it doesnt take leagues more skill when it's practically the same thing but you're safe and undetected 95% of the gameplay, you don't have to be good at judging speed distance and time, it's not insanely easy to miss a jump and it's not handicapped by needing to climb objects and being a walking duck on land

it takes the same if not less skill than pinning smth down as a raptor because the ambush is already set up, the only thing you need to do is hold right click to aim and then press space bar to jump, whereas raptors actually have to get close without being detected, you don't need to be good at judging speed distance and time, you just need basic knowledge on how to do it, it's complicated to miss a perfectly set up jump, and even if it couldn't climb, it would still be better than, for example, dryo and troodon

the fact that it can climb makes it really simple to survive as it cause nothing but other herreras can jump you

[crimson crater]

That’s stretching it

Being detected or not dosent matter for raptors, they can attempt again even if they mess up

[leaden remnant]

it really aint

[crimson crater]

what are u talking about

[leaden remnant]

not in this map

[crimson crater]

Have you played it?

[leaden remnant]

both yes

[crimson crater]

How much Herrera

[leaden remnant]

run for 1 second and youve alraedy gone thru 35 bushes

[leaden remnant]

about 40 hours

[crimson crater]

Hitting something farther away is objectively speaking harder

[crimson crater]

That’s nothing

[leaden remnant]

not if you have the ambush set up already

[leaden remnant]

40 hours on a playable already lets you know its weaknessess strengths and how to play it

im not counting herrera videos and streams watched here

cause if i did it's about 70 ish hours

[crimson crater]

What does videos and streams have to do with anything

[leaden remnant]

you learn

[crimson crater]

knowing how something works dosent make you good at it

[leaden remnant]

if you know how something works you already are well above average

[crimson crater]

Not in terms of skill and it depends on what you consider “average”

[leaden remnant]

average is someone that knows a good bit but not that much

[crimson crater]

That’s what you consider average

[leaden remnant]

and you dont have to be a pro player and have 300 hours to know if something is difficult or easy to play

[crimson crater]

Sure but I already explained it

[leaden remnant]

you merely need to know all its technical information and try to apply them in multiple sessions in multiple servers

[crimson crater]

Herreras learning curve isn’t really consistent

Like omnis

[ancient atlas]

Raptor pounce its over OP, you cannot do nothing to remove the raptors, with carno at 94%, two raptor jumped on me and they throw me on the ground and i died like that, without option to remove them or something

[ancient atlas]

"nightvision" is 🤮 also

[haughty grotto]

Disagree.
Pounce is the only good thing raptors have left, aside from maybe turning agility, and you want to take away that too?
(And btw pounce always has a risk of accidentally hurting another raptor, and it also consumed a ton of stamina leaving the raptors defenseless during it and afterwards)

Their speed, HP, bite damage, and jumping (all rocks gone) is so low compared to other carnis in the game right now. Can get one or two shotted by anything.
You need numbers to be able to kill anything.

You died because you were caught wandering solo, not because pounce is OP.
Two dilos could have killed you just as easily.

[ancient atlas]

YOU MUST HAVE SOME OPTION TO REMOVE THEM!

[leaden remnant]

just run away

[haughty grotto]

You do: either buck the first one before the second gets on, or spot them earlier and run.
If the raptors are good and coordinate before you realize what's happening, then they're just good players and it's okay to die like that. Take the defeat and learn from it.

Imagine a raptor getting 2 shot by your carno and saying 'give me an option to remove carno from chasing me''

[leaden remnant]

thats the best way you coulve put it

[ancient atlas]

Put again the E to drop their stamina faster, cause the raptors are meant to play in group, and for some reason when one jumped on me i ran slower so the second one jumped on me cause he reached me

[haughty grotto]

Raptors already drop stamina really fast when they are pouncing you
Like really really fast

[ancient atlas]

bro how much time it takes to kill a 94% carno with two raptors with one pounce only, that dont forget that they throw me on the ground and i couldn't do anything, only watch how i die

[leaden remnant]

just fight em

[ancient atlas]

it makes no sense

they THROW ME ON THE GROUND!

[leaden remnant]

then dont get pounced

play teh game more, learn how to fight and you'll kill them easily

[ancient atlas]

im playing it since 2020 bruh

[leaden remnant]

you still need to learn a lot then

[haughty grotto]

If both raptors have full stamina when they pounce you, then by the time you are dead they will only have about 20% left
If there is anything else with you, they can't do it
You have to be careful playing solo bro, that's the lesson here
2-3 of anything can kill you, not just raptors

[crimson crater]

Not as easily

[leaden remnant]

factual information right here

[ancient atlas]

Where is the realism without the "E"

[haughty grotto]

Depends on the dino, sometimes easily sometimes not
Carnos are really weak to raptors, esp cause they also have no bleed resistance
They would have a harder time against a cera cause one bite and you vomit and then you no longer have enough stamina to pounce the cera long enough to kill it

[leaden remnant]

theres no realism in surviving that

and realism doesnt determine gameplay cause then the game would suck

[ancient atlas]

i want also to poop with my dino

[sleek sierra]

Conde, do you think that could stand up and run away if 2 mountain lions jumped on you and pulled you down to the ground?

[vale brook]

not really comparable is it

[sleek sierra]

Sure it is. Predators attacking animals larger than them in groups take down larger animals all the time. And it doesn't take an amount of weight that exceeds the prey animal to do so either. Especially given that if they have the prey animal by the neck it greatly restricts movement. So yes, I think very comparable.

[vale brook]

mountain lions are far stronger than humans on any given day, mountain lions are also on average heavier than your average human.

humans are not a 2x sized small game hunter that gets punished for going after small game lol

i wouldnt even have a serious issue with pinning if it required more weight or quite literally anything other than "these two raptors are on you now. sit and watch yourself die :P" i have the same issue with deino as well, but atleast thats confirmed to be getting some work arounds

[vale brook]

tldr; not comparable

in other news, i cant downvote this there so im downvoting it here

#balance-feedback message

❌

[sleek sierra]

You're fixated on the specifics and not the metaphor that the mountain lion vs human represents.

Replace with whatever two animals you want. Lion and Giraffe for example.

Cheetah and wildebeest.

Polarbear and beluga whale.

[vale brook]

in which case yes i expect both to generally be able to fight off 2 lions/cheetah on their back if they havent been fighting for a pretty decent time

[sleek sierra]

And yet I've seen a single male lion take down a giraffe.

So....

[vale brook]

im not arguing that you should be able to escape and run when pinned, the bleed shouldnt allow for that imo. but there should be ways for you to fight back

[vale brook]

and men have killed mountain lions with their bare hands

this doesnt even begin to bring up the other issues with pinning

like 2 30% omnis being able to pin and kill a FG pachy

(with the pachy having full stam!)

[sleek sierra]

That doesn't mean it's unrealistic for raptors to take down a carno.

The complaint was it's unrealistic, when in fact there are many examples of animals taking down and pinning larger animals.

[vale brook]

who cares if its realistic in the first place? the game has never exactly prided itself on having the most realistic interactions between its creatures

we should instead focus on balancing the animals and allow for engaging gameplay in most if not all circumstance

[sleek sierra]

The person who was upset about this in the first place.

[vale brook]

in which case they need to #get real

[sleek sierra]

Balance is intact, carno can run away from raptors if worried.

[vale brook]

kind of a crap option to force the small game hunter to run away from said small game

[sleek sierra]

No one said forced.

[vale brook]

either run or get pinned

kinda sounds like forcing to me. the illusion of choice

[sleek sierra]

It requires the raptors to be competent in the first place. I e watched solo carnos wreck raptor packs that were uncoordinated.

[vale brook]

pinning as a whole needs to be reworked into really focusing on "hey! this thing has basically no stam! pull it down!" instead of "lol we dont care how much stam, health, or bleed you have. you will sit here and watch yourself die"

[sleek sierra]

And since they are on each other's diet, it seems very fair to me that a good carno, can wipe a raptor pack, and a good raptor pack can take down a solo carno.

[slim dragon]

Ah so you too have been blocked by this person you've never interacted with ?

[vale brook]

yes lol

[slim dragon]

Is 2 raptors a pack ?

[sleek sierra]

I don't care what you call it. Pick whichever version of the word group is pleasing.

[hasty coyote]

Same, is this dude just blocking everyone who disagrees lmao

[vale brook]

(its a pair)

[sand garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti8JClZQBgk

^ This vid is all I have to say about carno, its not THAT bad. 😅

[leaden remnant]

oh yeah surely holding charge bite will remotely kill the carnos

the ceras were absolutely clueless to the point where a fresh spawn troodon can kill them all (overexaggeration)

while carno is horrible yeah you can kill ppl who need some serious combat lessons

[keen plover]

green I'm sorry but those ceras are awful 😭

[leaden remnant]

just like the other day i almost killed a 1 ton dibble as a fresh spawn raptor

doesnt mean raptor is incredibly op

[keen plover]

There's no way a cerato should ever lose to a carno

[sand garden]

If carno is well played and used strategically its not that bad, maybe some minor tweaking but not the monster it once was that's for sure. 😂

[leaden remnant]

the monster it once was is what it should be again tbf

felt good and challenging now it's a damn joke that only knows spam rmb

[sand garden]

It still counts honestly, If its played well, only thing I can agree with is that two omnis should not be pinning it and neither a cerato.

[leaden remnant]

it doesnt count tho

[keen plover]

It is pretty bad tbh. It's reliant on the player being awful to actually do well. A good pairing of any small tier will have you beat

[leaden remnant]

i once won a 6v1 as a pachy (raptors vs pachy) doesnt mean pachy is amazing yknow

[vale brook]

two omnis pinning either of them will forever be the funniest joke the isle made

i think the joke has run its course now however

[keen plover]

pin or not, the carno is going to die very quickly to their bleed

[sand garden]

I dont ever want to see Spiro carno back, that thing made me want to chug gasoline.

[keen plover]

I don't think it counts tho tbh. They kept running around. Literally trade their charge with a charge bite and you win. Avoid the long range charge so they don't stun. Pretty simple game plan

[keen plover]

Which version of Spiro carno lol

[keen plover]

Also eh. Shouldn't be a monster, but it also shouldn't be this bad

[sand garden]

The one we had before we got Evirma, I cant remember what version but when there was nothing but Carnos dominating. XD

[keen plover]

oh the worst version of carno

[leaden remnant]

update 5

[keen plover]

omni was better

Update 6 was when carno had 0 struggles

[sand garden]

All I can say is if it DOES get a buff, then being able to spam charge is just gonna make it annoying as heck to fight against when even someone who isnt that good can just spam charge and win.

[keen plover]

Low skill playable yeah. Seems like every playable is like that nowadays.

[sand garden]

Pretty much, besides Herrera, dont you dare say that about Herrera... Lmao jk.

[keen plover]

i mean

[sand garden]

https://media.tenor.com/G9qmH_P1nbsAAAAM/angry-angry-cat.gif

ᴵ'ᵐ ⁱⁿ ʸᵒᵘʳ ʷᵃˡˡˢ....ˢᵃʸ ⁱᵗ...

[native canyon]

it is only good aganist multiple targets at this point.

spam charge no gameplay

[sand garden]

Only reason I dont play it is because of the issues with Omni, it being completely bullied by their presence is not doing any favors.

Also since its the same weight as Cerato now it really should just be a hour long growth while cera can be two.

[native canyon]

not enough

Cera is in a more advantageous position in many different aspects.

[sand garden]

🤔 Honestly three hours probably wouldnt be so bad for it either, it does have a lot going for it compared to most playables.

Being able to eat rotten things and bones is a HUGE advantage indeed.

[native canyon]

garbage disposal

[leaden remnant]

an hour is less than a troodon

[floral plank]

Cera has hardly any flaws

[sand garden]

And yet troodon is TRASH!

[cosmic pelican]

If you think its matchup with omni is bad, wait till you learn that dilo can 1v1 it lol

[leaden remnant]

also that

what i dislike about carno is the fact that it's so damn limited and does so lil damage

[cosmic pelican]

I beg to differ https://youtu.be/yrRctFanMR0

[leaden remnant]

quick things need to be abslutely obliterated asap

[cosmic pelican]

It needs buffs yes, but it aint trash

[sand garden]

I'd rather deal with dilo then Omni honestly, at least Dilo turns like a train and can 'kinda' be dealt with more. (If its day)

[leaden remnant]

<@&933486433342222376> free elon musk trump stock market

he made 800k in 72 hours with elonmusktrump new technologies

[cosmic pelican]

Too bad it outspeeds you if it has speed mutation and you dont, it can also run carnos down

So yay

[sand garden]

Your ping/FPS has to darn near 'perfect' or else desync will ruin your life as Troo, so most the time its down to insane luck for the average troo player lol.

[cosmic pelican]

The only good matchup carno has left at this point is troodon and other tiny stuf

[leaden remnant]

1v1ing a raptor 😭

[cosmic pelican]

I was playing on 30fps lol

[sand garden]

Seems more like mutation problems then anything else, causing a meda type gameplay.

[leaden remnant]

poor carno being thrown around like absolute garbage

[sand garden]

Then you are the luck child.

[keen plover]

<@&933486433342222376>

[cosmic pelican]

No, I just have like 500 hours on troodon😭

[leaden remnant]

500 HOURS ON TROODON

DAMN BOI

[sand garden]

🫡 God speed good sir.

[cosmic pelican]

Okay that may have been an exaggeration

[leaden remnant]

well tbf i got 600 on raptor i cant complain

[cosmic pelican]

But its definetly a lot

[sand garden]

Teach me your ways master troodon. XD

[cosmic pelican]

Its been my go to solo playable ever since it released

[sand garden]

I cant get any of my friends to play it. 😢

[cosmic pelican]

Me neither lol

Tbf it sucks in a pack

[sand garden]

I learnt that two or three isnt so bad.

More managable.

[cosmic pelican]

You have the damage to kill stuff, but as soon as you get someone to stage 3 theyll just run, or most of the pack dies in the chaos

[sand garden]

Its for sure not a class that strangers from the game can just come together and play thats for sure lmao.

[cosmic pelican]

Troodon would genuinely be an S tier playable if the things youre hunting couldnt just book it whenever they feel like

[sand garden]

For real, they'll play around with ya but soon as it gets to stage three, they just like ''eh. I'm done with you''

[cosmic pelican]

Its stego levels of inefficient in terms of stam

Yeah😔

Also the fact it cant take out organs from bodies bigger than 1.3T😭

Like, why😭😭

[sand garden]

Bruh that infuriates me, why I dont like playing it, besides the obvious reasons.

I also wish it could change positions like Omni when latched, so not fair.

[cosmic pelican]

Its honestly fun, but its not for everyone and I get that

On the bright side though, if you can get a good diet you can get to fg in 30ish minutes

[sand garden]

Ya, we finally was able to talk em into giving us that much at least!

[keen plover]

yk why

[sand garden]

Oh I know...I know...

But still...Its a challenge I'm willing to try...Ya'll are just COWARDS! XD jk

[keen plover]

😔 the growth is the annoying part. Finding that first kill is annoying

Whenever they add rats, insects and lizards, it will probs be chill

[sand garden]

True, true, Troodon and Herrera kinda got it bad starting off.

[keen plover]

Yeah only reason I don't play them more. I'd genuinely main them both if that was the case since they're fun to play

[sand garden]

I'll hold you to that once they add those AI. 👀

[crimson crater]

A good carno can’t kill a whole raptor pack. AI dosent count

[tall spear]

@sage marsh I agree with this but carno needs a charge dmg buff rn it does 200 dmg which is awful I think 300 is a good spot

[cosmic pelican]

A charge that doesnt stun is only 100dmg

[sage marsh]

I disagree. Buffing charge will simply make it relied on more and far more obnoxious to deal with. I would like to avoid putting charge in a place where it needs to go back on a cooldown.

[sage marsh]

Right, it's really crappy damage on a suboptimal charge. While it feels good to use it isn't reliable outside of hit and run tactics and the like one in every 10 charge stun. Which is why I think buffing the bite force back to prenerf will fix the problem Carno has in damage output without making it obnoxious.

Charge should feel good to use but should not feel overwhelming. An overpowered charge is a charge that gets a cooldown and a charge that gets a cooldown is nearly useless. Current charge is much better.

@supple ledge may I ask what you disagree with in my feedback? Is it the bite force the weight or both?

[supple ledge]

well personatly I disagree with all of it, mostly because I think the Carnos and cearnos are in a good spot. one is faster but has less hp and less damage out put and is ment to be a pack animal while the other is slower does alot of damage, normal one to two shot kills anything in its path. ( mostly. theres a few things it cant but for the most part its decent at what its ment to do) while their ment to be a small pack type, now I do know that more pack use to pack up with the bigger tougher one but at the same time, thats not really a design flaw thats a player choice flaw.

I dont think the two are ment to engage one another in combat I think its ment to be a last resort type deal if you do. of course thats not how people play the game but you cant fault the dev for what the player might choose to do with content in a game.

long story short. because I see it as un-needed

[sage marsh]

I see. So I think our disagreement comes from our different outlooks on how to balance then.
So imo Carno is not in the best spot right now. Really it's good at killing babies and juveniles ambushing or otherwise. Now if you get a group of Carno's together than sure they will feel overwhelming, but that's the case with any playable. So I dont think it is correct to balance that way especially when group limits can be changed. But if we are going to look at it that way. Cerato can be in a group of 4 where as Carno is limited to a group of 3.
What Carno is built to hunt typically shouldn't require more than one Carno as it has the speed and, if my suggestion goes through, the power to take out single targets which is what Carno is built for.
Cerato however is built to be a scavenger with a mechanic that should cause other carnivores to not want to fight it. A walking deterant built with survivability in mind. And yet currently Cerato is the better hunter. At hunting what Carno wants to hunt as well as literally anything else except maybe Gali simply because of the speed dif.

[supple ledge]

I disargee with the first statement so far, a pack of petras dont far any better then one on its own im not kidding you when i say it gets one shot by ANYTHING, including baby pigs, BABY pigs, so if a ai pig can hold its own agaisnt a petra any player in the world should feel embarassed if they die to a petra its laughable how weak it is.

the secound statement I dont agree with either it shouldnt be easy too hunt as one of the scaryest things in this game, should be tough, but that makes it all the more rewarding

last one i dont fully disargee with that statement just in what it implys, speed is more importent for a animal to have then you might think. it dedermins weather or not it can run away safely if it can attack and douge better. I would argue speed is vastly more importent then how strong their bite is but thats just me

[golden coral]

@sage marsh If carno still has the terrible bleed multipliers, Id return them back to normal as well. Even with a bit more weight and blood, itd still be nice to not bleed in excess.

[sage marsh]

Petra? Do you mean pteranandon?

I do agree with you that it shouldn't be too easy to hunt. The issue is that Carno still struggles to hunt anything fully grown solo let alone if it has to fight multiple things. Now I'm not saying it should be a monster that can fight solo against packs of things with no skill. But I am saying that when hunting it should be able to take down what it is meant to hunt, which is small game, and it should be fairly efficient at doing that which currently it think it needs help with that.

Speed is absolutely important, but I dont think speed is the end all be all especially given the current speed difference with the current playables. If we are judging speed on on simply means to escape I'd agree with you. But speed is also how chases are largely determined and with speed you also have to keep manuverability in mind which is where Carno fails as it should.

[sage marsh]

Yeah I dont think it's bleed rate should be touched. It's a very large mobile animal. Bleed being a weakness makes sense to me.

[sage marsh]

I added that as something not to be changed to the suggestion. It slipped my mind. Thank you.

[supple ledge]

Yes correct

fair enough, everyone is intitled to their opinions

speed is huge for offensive as well as defensive take the raptor for exp: sure its not very strong or has that much hp or that much stam but its still one of the most played Dinos i have seen so far. I think that comes down to not only can it prevent hits by junking it befor attacking, but it also has a great "oh crap" button if you mess up, running. barely anything in this game can move faster then it can while still posing a threat

[sage marsh]

Well I'm glad we agree. Sorry I couldn't get you to see eye to eye with me.

[supple ledge]

hey though Glad we had this debate though always good to see the others veiw point

[sage marsh]

You bet. You mind if ask a favor? Very small one.

[supple ledge]

depending on what it is

[sage marsh]

Would you mind un checking the X and then rechecking it so it appears on the right and the checkmark appears on the left? I know this sounds dumb but it's driving my OCD crazy. 😂

[supple ledge]

haha sure man

[sage marsh]

Thank you 😂😅

[supple ledge]

np

[native canyon]

@sage marsh carno is now an illusion of it former self ,lost its teeth and body these buffs won't be enough for carno spamming charge it's nonsense

[leaden remnant]

if only it needed to use the ram only once instead of 700 times per second

[sage marsh]

So here my thing. Carno before was clunky and was just speed and biting. It still had relatively bad turn radius. Charge was extremely punishing to miss from the massive stam drain and while better on paper was less reliable.

Current Carno while no where near the power house (mostly because of the HP difference) is more fun to play. Carno charge was so strong before they had to put literal cooldown on it instead of simply allowing it to be a huge stam drain.

With how things are now charge has speed utility which you couldn't use it that way before because the stam drain made is not worth it.

Maybe we won't agree on its speed but I think a small weight buff to give it back some tankiness and a bite force revert is enough. And with how charge functions currently that gives you not only variety in how you want to play Carno but also consistentcy while you are playing it.

I also honestly think you are asking for far too much and I think the Carno you are looking for might make a return with Elders as Elder Carno.

[sage marsh]

@native canyon Alright, well then sell your thought to me. I think your asking for too much and your idea doesn't seem to resonate with most people. But maybe I'm wrong.

Whats your argument?

[leaden remnant]

it doesn't resonate with 10 people

not with most people

for it to not resonate with most people (which it would), you'd need to ask way too many ppl

[sage marsh]

He just reposted that. He made the same suggestion about a week ago and it has nearly 40 downvotes

[leaden remnant]

well then doesn't resonate with 40 ppl

[sage marsh]

My guy. Most suggestions don't get more than 40-50 upvotes or down votes

I'd say that's decently representative.

[leaden remnant]

not at all

[sage marsh]

Out of the people that are going to go and look in feedback and up or downvote suggestions? Yes it is

[leaden remnant]

you could put that exact suggestion in another discord and people would say "not enough"

[leaden remnant]

40 ppl out of 1.6 million

[sage marsh]

Seriously. You're being ridiculous.

[leaden remnant]

wdym im being ridiculous

what am i saying that's remotely wrong

you're saying it doesn't resonate with most ppl which is absolutely wrong

because 40 ppl is nothing

[sage marsh]

You expect 1.6 million people to go in there vote? I'm looking at the average amount of votes that a suggestion gets

[leaden remnant]

it's alwyas the same ppl that downvote or upvote

the number of downvotes doesn't determine the validity of a suggestion

[sage marsh]

You're trying to argue based on technicalities.

[sage marsh]

Then what is the point of allowing people to up or down vote Then? They can turn that off

[leaden remnant]

for active ppl in this server to give opinions

but it doesnt determine anything

[sage marsh]

Great. And the people who care enough to be active in the balance feedback server have given their opinions

[leaden remnant]

yeah but you mentioned that it doesn't resonate with most ppl and that since it got downvoted to heck then it's decently representative which is completely wrong

if i post this suggestion on another discord ppl will literally say "not enough buffs"

im merely tryna let you know that downvotes and upvotes mean absolutely nothing

[sage marsh]

Here's the stupidest part. You want to talk about opinions? Your buddy upvoted my first suggestion a week ago. And that suggestion offered less of a buff then the one I posted this morning. And the up/down vote ratio is the opposite of his.

[leaden remnant]

cause quite frankly if you scroll up in these channels a couple years time you'd absolutely ignore what anyone says

[leaden remnant]

he aint my buddy i dont know him from anywhere

certain people in this discord prefer the current version of carno thats what we can get thru it

[sage marsh]

Ya I'm done discussing this with you. It's absolutely representative. Is it a perfect representation? No. But people that are going to be on that specific server are going to be people that actually have an interest in the balance. So for those people to down vote your from 3 or 4 to 1 says quite a lot. So yes it's as representive as you are going to get.

[leaden remnant]

well nothing you said is correct in that last message

[sage marsh]

My guy

[leaden remnant]

if i post that suggestion in another server with people who express balance ideas and even gather thousands of views in youtube doing that they will all say that no it needs even more buffs

and that's not representative either 🤷‍♂️

[sage marsh]

You're being ridiculous and I'm done entertaining your trolling.

Have a good one.

[leaden remnant]

hell, even filipe said (when the camera system thing) that he agreed with a feedback with 3 upvotes and 120 downvotes telling ppl to chill out

[leaden remnant]

i dont understand one thing tho

im merely trying to explain one very simple thing to you and you get all passive aggressive towards me and claim im trolling

which is quite concerning to me not gonna lie

shows that you cant handle opinions and people trying to explain things to you that you don't understand

[sage marsh]

I can handle opinions you are trying to make a pointless arguement.

[leaden remnant]

no sir im merely saying that downvotes mean nothing cause i feel like you give them too much weight

[sage marsh]

Let me explain this to you

[leaden remnant]

thats all im sayin

[sage marsh]

We are in the isle discord. A suggestion is made. That suggestion gets a lot of upvote or a lot of downvotes. Do you not think that causes some sway on whether or not that suggestion gets implemented? Whatever that suggestion is?

[leaden remnant]

absolutely not they've said it infinite times

what ppl think about it doesn't matter if it's a good idea

[sage marsh]

Then what's the point

[leaden remnant]

for ppl to express opinions n stuff

but in reality it's completely worthless for the devs

filipe saw a feedback with 3 upvotes and 120 downvotes and said "yup this is a good one"

if the idea is good they'll use it otherwise they won't

[sage marsh]

Cap

[leaden remnant]

now youre the one trolling

check filipe's message history

[leaden remnant]

[sage marsh]

I'm trolling? You are saying that Filipe saw and idea with a 40-1 downvote ratio and said "yeah this one is good"? Yeah no I call bull

[leaden remnant]

when i said you were trolling it's me trolling you btw

but yeah filipe saw a comment in #general-feedback asking ppl to chill out with the camera thing that it wasn't the end of the world with 120 downvotes and 3 upvotes and he completely agreed with it

it's in #isle-discussion you just gotta search for it

[sage marsh]

I'm at work. I'll look later.

[leaden remnant]

aye aye sir

[sage marsh]

Alright I'm on break i just looked through all of Filipe's messages in the past year. All the way up to teasing Gateway. I found nothing like what you are saying.

[leaden remnant]

you didn't search well enough then

cause it is in #isle-discussion

[sleek sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/easter-doe-eating-deer-eating-popcorn-funny-gif-4621167703268332056

[slim dragon]

Ah, the camera talk
Good times

[polar belfry]

Ankylosaurus

[vale brook]

i think most reasonable people would agree that harassing the devs and 'striking the game' over camera changes is bad, even if the vocal minority becomes more vocal (with 120 downvotes and 3 upvotes)

[jovial vessel]

I agree with making cera more of its corpse bully form again, it is soooo fast that its just a hunter and runs you down, idk why they did this to cera

[thorn mountain]

yep as much as I like cera and using it as a steg killer (you know exactly what I mean) it seems it will be brushed under the rug if they dont make it unique

when new bigger carnis come

[jovial vessel]

Right now it feels like a tankier version of an allo and I dont think it should be that :/

but then again I do think the ceras kit entirely has too much going for it (Bacteria insta vomit, charge bite, speed, defense buff on bodies, bleed/fracture reduction, damage resistance when eating) like, man

[vale brook]

<@&933486433342222376>

in most feedback channels

also in phase 3

[mint star]

<@&933486433342222376> scam bot

[dusky surge]

wow he agreed with people saying that the entire situation was overblown even though there was a lot of green checkmarks truly he hates feedback

[leaden remnant]

my good sir why are you saying something that i didn't even remotely imply

hes saying devs care a lot about upvotes and upvotes im saying they do not give a crap

and now for whatever reason ur saying the most unrelated and unthought of claims 😭

[dusky surge]

still a disingenuous example

because that wasn't feedback as much as a complete outcry

[leaden remnant]

you are disingenous bruh

quit tryna incriminate me of nonsense 😭

if you're wrong you're wrong you don't need to make weird ass things to try to somehow be correct

[golden coral]

Should just remove the up/down "vote" (and any other reaction, really). We already have the discussion channels to talk about any given feedback.

[brave estuary]

#balance-feedback message
I bloody love this idea. It's like each body part has it's own saturation value that increases the more you hit it

And the more you hit it, it eventually does little damage

[slim dragon]

A forum system would be best

[slim dragon]

It only makes sense for certain bodyparts
You wouldn't take less damage to the head if you take many headshots

[brave estuary]

Yeah, the head should be the body part that gets the least saturated. I was thinking legs and tail get the most saturated

[gusty hedge]

Alot of people say he’s the biggest isle glazer so I’m not surprised

[leaden remnant]

LOL

[slim dragon]

That is a weird thing to say about someone that is constantly complaining about the game how it currently is and asking for massive reworks

[sage marsh]

If you've ever played World of Warships, they have that exact system for their HP pool. The bow can only take so much dmg before the damage is heavily reduced. Same thing with the stern, the midsection, and the superstructure.

It actually had a problem with some healing abilities because the entire ship would stay saturated making the healed ship insanely tanky.

[brave estuary]

This is where I'm getting the word "saturation" from :)

[uncut trellis]

@halcyon skiff Responding to your post on #phase-three-requests , and I 100% agree, especially on humans requiring population limits

[neon willow]

Question, because I don't play carno and never really have: is carno only having issues with cerato matchups with the latest patch? Or is it a more universal problem with "small" creatures that it's intended to target?

I've seen multiple people complain about ceratos in multiple different matchups, so I am wondering if it is fair to say that carno doesn't need to be buffed; rather, that cerato needs to be nerfed in some way

[sage marsh]

So right now Carno has this weird problem where in general it feels good to play, but it lacks in the consistency category. The reason I compare it to Cerato is because Cerato as described and from how it is kitted out, is not necessarily supposed to be hunting a lot. It is very much a walking garbage can. The problem is that it is just categorically better than Carno right now in every metric except speed.

[neon willow]

I don't really think the charge mechanic meshes well with carno's intended niche/play style/biome anyways and should probably be replaced, but that's another discussion

[neon willow]

Yeah, so the problem is not that carno is bad, but that cerato is too good in an area that SHOULD be carno's wheelhouse

[sage marsh]

Yes and no. So on paper the two are extremely similar in stats

[neon willow]

Cerato should not be so overly oppressive in hunts; rather, they should be exceptionally good at stealing kills

[sage marsh]

The problem is that Cerato has an overtuned mechanic, that being its bile. And with how vomit works it simply makes it better to have then Carno in most situations.

[neon willow]

You just said that cerato is categorically better than carno in every metric except speed? I'm confused

[sage marsh]

Yes, okay so let me explain

Cerato has a bile mechanic. It has dmg mitigation. It has an extended scent range. It can eat bones and rotten meat.

Those 4 mechanics help Cerato either hunt or survive more efficiently.

Carno has none of those mechanics while having worse turning but better speed, and the same health and bite force. Now Carno does have it's charge which has the potential to knockdown, but you have to hit someone after charging a solid distance for that to proc and with how easy Carno is to dodge it is very hard for that to happen consistently. It is also worth mentioning that Carno's charge without the knockdown or headshots only deals 100dmg compared to the harder to land bite which does 150.

Are you familiar with how bile works?

My hope is that buffing Carno to 1500 weight and giving it back its 175 bite force will give it both some much needed survivability as well as a more consistent output of damage.

[sage marsh]

Does this make sense?

[neon willow]

Yes it does. What your saying is the cerato, neglecting all 4 (yes, FOUR) of its niche specific mechanics, is very on par with the carno.

That leads me to a different conclusion, though. First, the vast majority of people I've talked to agree that bile needs to be nerfed. Second, I think it's fair to say that carno needs a more tailored mechanic. Straight line increased speed sounds fine on paper, but most small prey have great agility and can just.... Sidestep. Which is both relatively easy on open plains where carno is supposed to be effective, and entirely defeats the mechanic, unless you activate it nearby, but then you don't get stun that carno needs

[sage marsh]

Well, I'll admit I've never toyed with the idea of giving Carno a different mechanic because the charge just seems natural.

That and tbh the only problem I have with Cerato is it's bile. Everything else is fine. And even if bile is nerfed that will only affect it combat effectiveness minimally. Say we do what everyone suggests. Which is to make it so the vomiting is delayed from the bar being maxed out (I dont disagree with this idea) the Cerato is more mobile than Carno so it is better in circle fights and if it does make you vomit it has a 5th hidden mechanic that will let it track you. Or the fight will go on for long enough that you will vomit mid fight anyway.

I just don't see a easy way out of that cerato problem without nerfing it into the ground which I dont want. And even if we do that Carno is still going to be stuck in the same awkward spot

That and the other reason I dont highlight nerfing Cerato is because I don't need to. It's complained about enough that I would be suprised if the devs don't know about the problem

[neon willow]

Honestly, one thing that would help cerato be less overwhelming as well is if they couldn't charge bite while running. It enables it to stand it's ground, but not to run down and punish.

Going back to carno, the charge just really doesn't serve it. I'm not sure what it could be replaced by though. Maybe a buff to agility rather than speed? Or a separate mechanic like cerato has, where the combination helps shore up the intended play style? Charge is just very hard to balance so that it is effective on small game but not punishing on larger, less agile prey

I think that's why carno especially seems to seesaw between overly oppressive and entirely ineffective from patch to patch

[sage marsh]

Right now Carno gets dogwalked if it tries to charge something over a certain weight threshold which is fair. I've play PoT where Pycno (their Carno) could just charge any and everything. It did knock back and made the charge safe against almost everything.

Maybe a damage scale? The lighter something is compared to the Carno the more damage it does dealing less damage the heavier it is eventually getting to 0 stunning the Carno for trying at that point?

Makes it more effective on what they want it to hunt while forcing Carnos to think when fighting bigger and bigger things

[neon willow]

Yeah Ive played pycno. Not a huge fan for that reason.

Damage scale would help, but doesn't address the problem that charge limits agility against the intended prey where you REALLY need agility to hunt

[sage marsh]

You're right.

Well we can't let Carno be oppressive by giving it both. So it's a lose lose situation.

I guess it could be like a stance switch. More mobile when not charging and then mobility tanks while speed jumps when charging?

Would allow you set up charges easier

[floral plank]

You could add it's stun back reduce the threshold of what it can stun so it doesn't stun things similar to it's size but is able to ambush things smaller than it, makes it easier to secure kills on more agile dinos while not making it so oppressive on larger animals

[neon willow]

Agreed. Maybe replace charge with a similar mechanic to sparring, except instead of locking together, it lets you change directions a certain number of times?

[neon willow]

This might work

[sage marsh]

Screw it. I'll throw it in both feedback channels and see how it is recieved.

[neon willow]

The problem is, the idea of ambush in open plains when you're a super tall dinosaur is kind of silly. How are you supposed to sneak close enough to ambush?

[floral plank]

current carno in open plains is still faster than most things and unless you want to make the thing more agile it's going to suck at catching more agile dinos, again it's fast it can run down most things and in it's current state the charge just feels so unrewarding if you even manage to land it especially on things smaller than you.

[dusky surge]

thats how it works literally right now

you get a whopping 20% speed boost for charging

but a large debuff to agility

[sage marsh]

Your agility takes a hit ya but it's nothing crazy.

I still think the damage scaling is a good idea. If you think mentioning that is moot then I'll take it out.

@neon willow alright I put it in both channels

Now we wait

[floral plank]

@sage marsh would it be too crazy to ask for a cooldown on charge?

[sage marsh]

I really don't like the idea because I can't think of anything else in the game that has cooldowns. AND if we put a cooldown on it I feel it would have to be powerful enough to justify it.

[floral plank]

well if you're doing scaling dmg to things smaller you could just spam it

plus with a stun

[sage marsh]

Tbf. If you are small enough that that the charge can 1 or 2 shot you. I dont think putting a cooldown on the charge will save you.

That and while I didn't put in the suggestion. We can always cap the maximum and minimum damage if needed.

I'll add that now

[floral plank]

That's fair

[dusky surge]

Never been a fan of scaling charge damage off weight

We already scale stun threshholds off weight, which in turn scales damage

Enable the ability to actually stun and that scaling issue solves itself

[sage marsh]

That's fair. We were just talking about how to fix Carno without making it busted because a simple weight and bite buff may not fix the actual problem Carno has.

This was just an idea. Throwing it at the wall and seeing if it sticks. Feel free to downvote it. Will let us know if it's actually a good idea or not.

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message i feel like if a carno fell 20 its legs would shatter

[supple ledge]

a carno has legs built for shock though what do you mean? like look how their shaped and the thickness of it. it looks much the same as say a flamingo brid only scaled up. so i mean i disagree i think a carno could take upwards of 35-40 feet befor it starts to crack

[vale brook]

i dont think mentioning a group of animals notoriously known to be fragile is a good example

carno legs are built for running, not shock

those are two completely different things

so no i do not think carno could fall 3 stories and be fine. watch where you run/step.

[supple ledge]

frangle yes but not in the sense of falling.

[supple ledge]

i mean the shape of something tells you its characteristics and what the shape of carno's legs tells me is that its built for running and falls. short falls but i would classify 20feet as a short fall

[vale brook]

theyre also incredibly light therefore falling down something isnt exactly something harmful for them

[vale brook]

nothing about carno suggests it was meant to be taking 20 foot falls

[supple ledge]

1.5 theres 12 feet to a story and 15 too comerical buildings

[vale brook]

if a story is 12 and 15, then whats the real definition

because it would be 3.33 stories if it was 12

(40/12 = 3.33 repeating)

[supple ledge]

its reveletive to how much force it can repell. like a spring is just metal if you smack metal hard enough it'll break but if you change its shape to that of a spring it handle much more stress

[vale brook]

and 2.666 repeating if 15

[vale brook]

this doesnt change the fact nothing about carno was meant to take a 20+ foot fall and walk away unharmed

[supple ledge]

so your taking the worst case that i mentioned got it, so already your trying to twist what i say. i already see that this is an argument you just going to bash until your right by default so i mean whats the point in talking anymore, your ego simpley has to be right about everything.

[vale brook]

no one twisted what you said. i am quite literally correcting your incorrect math based on the numbers YOU gave

you said 35-40, my bad for using a number you yourself suggested

not every act of defiance against an idea is fueled by ego. carno simply was not built to be falling 20, 30, or 40 feet without being heavily injured by such a fall

[slim dragon]

Um
Carno is 1.3 tons
Of course falling is gonna hurt a lot

[vale brook]

something something ego

[dusky surge]

also it feels like people forget the sense of scale of everything

a carnotaurus falling its full body length has been falling a pretty fair distance

it's not just like 5-6 feet

[slim dragon]

That is something I found funny in Primal Carnage
Realistic fall damage

Raptors could basically jump off a cliff and be fine, but if a rex fell from a ledge half its own height, it almost died

[slim dragon]

@tawdry fossil That's exactly the reason bees exist
To prevent big animals from going into sanctuaries, where they should not be

[brittle zephyr]

@tawdry fossil Stay away from santuaries that are safe zones for JUVIS, easy. An adult has no business being there anyways

Unless you wanna camp juvis, just stay away from the bees

[distant torrent]

if you want to camp juvies in sanctuaries just go troodon

[proper berry]

remove insta puke from cera, make it delay couse its broken now getting stunned if ur small dino every time

[neon willow]

To be fair, if the physics engine was better and didn't send you falling Wiley coyote style off of gently sloping hills, it would be less of a problem

I have no problem with punishing carno for running off ledges; however, it's really easy for the physics engine to decide that a carno (or anything) sprinting intends to literally fly downhill

[hasty coyote]

@olive tree I disagree for those dinos because they are already very slow for their size first off, and second many of them rely on the speed to fight properly.

Stego literally has a RUNNING power swing, so it’s meant to be able to run. Slowing it down would do nothing but make it worse at defending against larger threats who can tank a swing and stick on their head (like Rex)
Pachy would just be complete fodder at this point if it got a speed decrease while charging a ram. They tried to nerf its agility while charging a while ago, and it just made pachy awful at fighting stuff like Omni and didn’t change its ability to punch up. Decreasing its speed would do something similar, which is the opposite of what we need.
Cera is the only one I could really see a maybe for a slow down, but it’s going to need compensation buffs because it loses so much depending on how bad the nerf is. Personally I’d rather we nerf other aspects first like damage.

Diablo is the perfect example of where a defensive stance slowing makes sense. In spar it’s slower while strafing and that’s a fair trade off. And it’s MUCH slower while blocking, which is also fair because it takes 1/8th damage to the head in that stance. This really doesn’t affect Diablo as much since it doesn’t rely heavily on speed to dodge, and what it gains (agility or damage resistance) prevents more damage than the speed it loses.

[olive tree]

Bro that’s too much to read for me

[slim dragon]

Short version : Animals with charged attacks slow
Make slow animals slower redundant

[olive tree]

Right, I see

[sleek sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-gif-4372156584801469333

[tawdry fossil]

I figured the issue was compass didnt show its a sanctuary, was nighttime aswell. Couldnt see myself out after walking in

This sanctuary is in a wierd spot aswell. Half of it is surrounded by the swamp, juvis wanting to drink there could be snapped by deino

[brittle zephyr]

I mean santuary trees are extremely different and easy to distinguish from normal flora in this game

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

being hunted ≠ being helpless

a stego being unafraid of creatures not even a quarter of its size seems pretty fair to me

[supple ledge]

k ture, but a carno and a cearotosorsus is over twice its size, and yet still doesnt seem to give a carp like it doesnt matter the animal or the size, they simply have way to high of a damage out put. feels like they were given a shot gun while the carivors were given kinfes, thats not fun for one of the sides, when the herbs start hunting carivors that should be a sign you messed up something with the blance

[dusky surge]

when herbivoes start hunting carnivores, that should be a sign you have some real bad carni players, because it's so easy to make not happen

their damage output IS their survival strategy. Stego can't flee from basically anything, it has to either kill it or scare it off, and its damage is how it does that

[vale brook]

"carno and a cearotosorsus is over twice its size" is... this about stego?

[cosmic pelican]

[supple ledge]

ah yes "I nEvEr DiE tOo A hErB tHeRe FoR sKiLl iSsUe" argument, if your playing carivors you should be abble to hunt herbs PEROID, i dont care about yours or there skill level if your carivor and your bigger you should have more health and more damage then the other, again peroid, thats commen sense, the bigger you are the more hits you can take and bigger the hits you can through out

[sage marsh]

An elephant will not worry over a single hyena or a single lion. When the pack/pride shows up, that is when it becomes concerned.

[dusky surge]

stego is bigger than basically every carnivore besides deino tho, so the "bigger" argument doesn't work here

[sleek sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/panda-eating-popcorn-akademiks-gif-4852066732879832234

[vale brook]

exactly. im... so confused??

[supple ledge]

no just about herbs in gerenal, like holy crap packy's debblies staggoes, they all can one shot

[vale brook]

pachy can infact not one shot. cerato/carno is less than half the size of diablos.

[dusky surge]

pachy and dibble both have woefully low damage for their size

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy can only 1 shot troodons lmao

[sage marsh]

I'll give you dibble because dibble has its wombo combo but pachy?

[vale brook]

i love when people indirectly tell us they dont know what theyre talking about!!!

[vale brook]

so basically (from what im getting from this) if the CARNIVORE is bigger, it should be able to hunt the herbivores. but if the HERBIVORE is bigger, it should still cower in fear?

[dusky surge]

lmao

[cosmic pelican]

#eatgrassanddie fr

[vale brook]

am i misreading or is that basically what it says. please correct me if im wrong.

[dusky surge]

a stego should fear the carno the same way a rex fears a teno

it doesn't

[supple ledge]

bad exp loin isnt bigger then an elephant, you know what is though? a t rex. but this games logic would be, yea the elephant wins for sure, i mean wouldnt be fair if the elephant died to quickly

[stark knoll]

what

[dusky surge]

what

[vale brook]

because by using diablo as an example shows that you dont care which animal is bigger, you just think the one with more teeth should win

[vale brook]

so by your own admission, your own examples are bad

https://tenor.com/view/confusion-huh-gif-22987897

[dusky surge]

you keep bringing up size but our carnivores are mostly smaller than stego, besides the giant gator, who can kill basically every herbivore with ease so you're already getting what you want

[vale brook]

"loin isnt bigger then an elephant" carno nor cerato are bigger than diablo!!! or teno for that matter!!!

[sleek sierra]

Do y'all think that a lion that get gored by a warthog submits a rage filled feedback comment when it gets to the afterlife?

[cosmic pelican]

Yes

[sage marsh]

My understanding was that he was talking about Stego and how it doesn't care about Carno or Cera even though they are decently sized carnivores. So thats why I used the analogy.

[vale brook]

maybe the afterlife is a discord server for Earth (Game Version) where its structured exactly like this discord. maybe dms are just phones. wow.

[supple ledge]

dude, ... bro, a creatorososus is 16 feet tall and 18 feet long, a staggo is 10 feet tall 8 feet long, its not bigger shut up

[cosmic pelican]

What

[stark knoll]

Ceratosaurus is 1300kg

Stegosaurus is 6000kg

[vale brook]

stego is 6 tons and cerato is 1300kg. please know what youre talking about before you start getting rude.

[sleek sierra]

Life terribly unbalanced! Creator clearly doesn't understand how to create a universe. Am lion, why die?

[stark knoll]

And those are just completely and entirely wrong sizes lol

[dusky surge]

there ain't no way

[supple ledge]

wieght isnt size bud, you can have more bones to you and weight more

[sleek sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[dusky surge]

???????

[stark knoll]

lmao

[vale brook]

weight is literally size in the scientific community. thats why rex is considered the largest carnivore.

[dusky surge]

someone get a side by side image of cera and stego please god

[stark knoll]

Even if weight had literally no effect on in-game stats, our stego is still much larger than our cerato

[vale brook]

and even if weight WASNT size, you're still wrong!! about both of their measurments!!!

[stark knoll]

Just like real life

Also, 10 feet tall and 8 feet long?

[dusky surge]

brother shrink rayed the stego

[vale brook]

that is one SQUISHED stegosaurus

[stark knoll]

had too much fun in ms paint

[supple ledge]

actualy no, size is size. weight is a guess too its size but its not is size. for exp, how big do you think 1 pound of butter is? now how big do you think one pound of tunstan is? weight doesnt equal size

[cosmic pelican]

I smell google

[dusky surge]

this is the single funniest argument i've ever seen

[vale brook]

whats bigger? the earth or a black hole with the radius of the moon?

please answer as honestly as you can.

[sleek sierra]

Science in this case biology, would use mass as weight, and size as dimensions.

[vale brook]

nono, i want to see what he says

[sleek sierra]

Ok.

[sage marsh]

Between Spino Rex and Giga, Rex is the physically smallest of the 3 by height and length. However it is the BIGGEST because of its weight over the other 2

[dusky surge]

scientifically, irl and in the game, weight is the determining factor in animal matchups

legitimately this might be the only guy who thinks being taller = being stronger

[vale brook]

https://tenor.com/view/attack-on-titan-hange-zoë-hange-zoe-hanji-aot-gif-25320199

[supple ledge]

well considering that a black hole is nothing, quite litteraly a void, so its a whole of nothing, its size would be nothing, due to it being nothing, if you want me to guess the size of nothing, well then its nothing.

[vale brook]

OBJECTIVELY WRONG!

[stark knoll]

he doesn't know what a black hole is wrap it up

[dusky surge]

and also cerato is STILL SHORTER than stego's top height so that's really funny

[sage marsh]

No

[sleek sierra]

That's not what a black hole is friend.

[sage marsh]

A black is an object. It is there. It is round. It has gravity. It has weight.

[supple ledge]

right so this is the is water wet type people here gottcha,

[sleek sierra]

It has mass, it's that it's mass is compressed into a singular point. Ish.

It is not a void of nothing.

[vale brook]

he has invalidated his entire argument. black holes are the heaviest/most dense objects in the universe. a black hole with the radius of the moon has more mass than 4 suns (likely far more)

[cosmic pelican]

A black hole is literally infinitely dense what

[dusky surge]

tf does water wet got to do with objective science

[sleek sierra]

Not always. It's mass could be less than that of the earth and still be a black hole.

[dusky surge]

"you're one of those round earth people, aren't you"

lmao

[supple ledge]

yes it is its a whole in the space and or time, no one fully understand what a black hole is only that its strong enough to create a vacum that sucks in light it self for it to have such a strong vacum it would have to be a void of pure nothing. thats how suckion works

[vale brook]

its not 'sucking'??? its gravity, because it is so massive.

[sleek sierra]

It's gravity actually
...

[stark knoll]

oh dear

i think we've lost the plot

can we get back to dinosaurs?

[sleek sierra]

Sammy, are you trolling or just flailing?

[supple ledge]

IT HAS NO MASS okay now i understand why this game is so unblanced its filled with MORRONS

[vale brook]

im pointing out how he literally has no basis for his argument because he doesnt understand what hes arguing

[sleek sierra]

Other Sammy. Lol

[stark knoll]

you're both sammy

[vale brook]

i

... i dont like this anymore....

[sleek sierra]

Lol

[sage marsh]

I think you are thinking of a worm hole. Which is a theory. One has not been observed.

Even then that still not a void

[vale brook]

this is the last time im replying, heres a nasa document quite literally disagreeing with you. if you think you know more than nasa, well, that should tell everyone here more than they need to know. https://science.nasa.gov/universe/black-holes/ anyway bye bye

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778350416831709314/1128323517520302111/GIF_2023-6-29_8-25-35.gif?ex=67505f29&is=674f0da9&hm=d8942297d549cad64259a8628590b59028822374ec4e6480b494ab50de90411d&

Anyways this gif clearly shows cerato is tiny compared to stego

[fierce crypt]

@vale brook Stay here !!

[vale brook]

the ceratosaurus (clearly smaller) is obviously bigger than the stegosaurus (obviously bigger)

[strong kayak]

how the hell did black holes get brought up

[sage marsh]

Three time your size at least just looking at it. Without weighing it

[strong kayak]

what is wrong with this place

[fierce crypt]

No clue

[vale brook]

mass.

i wanted to see if he had a fundemental understanding of mass, because it would atleast give us a point to drop off back into stego with an understanding of size

i bet on the wrong horse.

[strong kayak]

LOL

[sage marsh]

Tbf space is pretty complicated. And awesome. But complicated. And if you don't know anything about it aside from the kindergarten to like 4th grade education you get, you wouldn't know much.

I grew up playing Halo and whatnot so I've always found space cool.

[cosmic pelican]

But one is a herbivore and the other is a carnivore so the herbivore should obviously lose to the carnivore thats 1/4th of its size, duh

[sleek sierra]

Nothing wrong with not knowing something, just don't call other people morons when they do.

Lol

[sage marsh]

Thats fair lmao

[vale brook]

my hope was after some confusion, he would be more open to an explenation and then stego v cera discussion would go over smoother even if mass is slightly different between both.

clearly i was wrong but i still stand by the fact it was a good segway

[sleek sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-pins-read-i-can't-read-bobby-hill-gif-14289141356498021536

[sage marsh]

It was.

[sleek sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-pixels-dpgc-gif-25869325

[mint star]

he left after this message

I feel bad reading this discussion because they’re very clearly a kid

[vale brook]

hes been a member since 2016

[mint star]

it reminds me of when I posted a comment on a Facebook post as a 13 or 14 year old about killing invasive pests and then being overwhelmed by the amount of people who hate-replied

[vale brook]

his discord account is older than mine

[mint star]

I saw, which makes this whole thing really confusing

[vale brook]

hes at the very least 15-16

likely older

[thorn mountain]

NOOO I MISSED OUT ON THIS

[crimson crater]

same lol

[thorn mountain]

🫡

[slim dragon]

I just couldn't resist
Cerato vs stego

(the cera in my picture is a little bit over 18 feet long but that's because I didn't want to waste time calculating the length of its bent tail)

[dusky surge]

real as real gets

[vale brook]

https://tenor.com/view/tayomaki-stan-twitter-sakigifs-tiara-nelson-laughing-gif-22145013

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message it should take longer to fully charge up but idk about stamina cost

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message
i fought 2 ceras yesterday. they got me to yellow health before both died and i also vomited 4-5 times

so just think about it, i did i really good job fighting but still vomited 4 times lmao

2 bites to make full hunger teno vomit

my hunger bar was low, so basically every bite was making me vomit lol

how in a world thats balanced

[crimson crater]

yea that’s kinda how a deterrent mechanic works

not worth fighting ceras

[worthy steeple]

its not like you have a choice sometimes, thats the first thing

the second thing is that making a playable not worth interacting with is a bad idea

[crimson crater]

you do have a choice especially as a teno

[worthy steeple]

not really

0.1 km/h doest change anything

[crimson crater]

actually it does! If you press shift + W they won’t be able to get to you

That’s kinda how speed works

[worthy steeple]

if only it was that simple

[crimson crater]

I don’t get what you mean, unless they have speed mutations running away is always an option

[crimson crater]

that’s kinda ceratos whole thing, ofc it shouldn’t be impossible to interact with but you wanna think twice before fighting them

[worthy steeple]

theres difference between "difficult to fight against" and just frustrating

i would rather have good playable instead of "dont touch me or you will lose your diets,hunger,water,stamina"

not gonna talk about playables that literally cant outrun cera

[crimson crater]

Sorry I worded it wrong. That’s exactly how cera should be, pain in the ass to fight and frustrating but not too difficult to fight

everything having the exact same defense method is just boring

[worthy steeple]

the thing is, even if you absolutely suck as a cera, you can still do a lot of damage by just simply w+m1

basically, you can make things vomit without any skill involved, without even trying

[crimson crater]

against what? Movement is important when it comes to cera not just about clicking RMB

[crimson crater]

How can there be skilled involved in biting and making something puke

[worthy steeple]

even if your movement sucks, even if you're not trying.. you still make everything vomit in 1-2 bites, like you can still deal a lot of damage

[crimson crater]

if your movement sucks it could end up costing u your life, unless u fighting a raptor

[worthy steeple]

thats what im talking about, cera can face tank you, die, and still make you vomit by biting just one time

[crimson crater]

facetank what? It can only facetank carnos and below

[worthy steeple]

literally anything, face tank stego make it vomit and die

[crimson crater]

…..

dude

wanna hop on Norden to test that theory out?

I don’t think I can begin to explain how that’s just not possible, better if I show😭

[golden coral]

Technically, it can facetank a stego. But why the stego would facetank and only bite, I dont know xD

[crimson crater]

It can’t at all, the stego has such a long range you’ll die before you even manage to get close to its body

[hasty coyote]

how so? thats basically the idea with a lot of dinos. Fractures are a prime example, as well as magy. Making things not worthwhile to fight isnt a bad idea on its own, the main concern is when said fight is almost unavoidable.

To be fair, cera's bacteria effect could prob use a slight rework to make the effects less immediate, since it really does not need the stun. Honestly the vomit stun makes cera harder to balance since its so inconsistent. Like you could have a long fight and vomit something 5 times, or you only get one vomit off before the target dies.

especially since the stuns themselves are also inconsistent in length.

[crimson crater]

^ and claiming that it can facetank everything bc of it is just not true

they changed how it works

[hasty coyote]

yeah you used to flat out stunlock things, that was honestly pretty funny but def op. Now theres like a 40 second timer, but after seeing what has happened with pachy, a stun immunity timer does not help where its most needed.

[crimson crater]

That and they changed another thing about it, once the cera bites it cancels the animation so you can no longer get in multiple shots

[hasty coyote]

I have not seen that at all myself

[worthy steeple]

no? that’s basically what happened, they charged my butt, died pretty quickly but still made me vomit

that’s what a lot of ceras do. face tank a stego, bite it once, make it vomit and die to power swing

[hasty coyote]

an adult stego takes like 5 bites to vomit

[worthy steeple]

that’s the whole issue, ceras are getting rewarded even for the stupidest plays

[crimson crater]

If a cera manages to bite your butt as a TENO that’s just a skill issue ngl

[worthy steeple]

depends on how low hunger bar is

[hasty coyote]

they would die MUCH before they got to vomit it, unless its an awful stego

[crimson crater]

Yea

[worthy steeple]

i mean, they died 5 second after

basically because they did it

[crimson crater]

just saying that’s it’s your fault for not doing anything

[crimson crater]

didn’t u just say that they can stunlock things to death

[worthy steeple]

it’s not easy to fight a cera without getting bitten

[worthy steeple]

i didn’t? what

[crimson crater]

you won’t puke in one bite and even if you do that’s not gonna cost you your life as a teno

[worthy steeple]

basically, every bite = vomit, that’s not good game design

[worthy steeple]

2 bites with the full hunger bar.

[crimson crater]

wdym every bite vomit, there’s a cool-down to it

[worthy steeple]

and one bite after the first vomit

[crimson crater]

you can cancel their bite

[worthy steeple]

i know lol

[crimson crater]

by hitting them first

[worthy steeple]

no?

[crimson crater]

yea you can

[worthy steeple]

if only it was that easy, ceras cancel tenos attacks too, by just biting them

not talking about vomit, just bites

[crimson crater]

They can’t

I don’t see a problem with current cera, its bile was useless before the changes it got

[worthy steeple]

it should be halfed again

[crimson crater]

again? It already was

ad hom btw, instead of insulting me back up your claims lmao

[worthy steeple]

when did i insult you?💀

[worthy steeple]

literally what i said, 4 bites to make teno vomit sounds a lot more reasonable than 2

[crimson crater]

clown reacting me

[crimson crater]

I mean yea you always have the option to not fight them, I feel like cera is finally doing what it’s intended, being an absolute pain to fight

[eager saddle]

isnt it supposed to be a body defender/scavenger?

[crimson crater]

It’s also supposed to be something you often don’t wanna fight

[worthy steeple]

cera has some identity crisis, it doesn’t know if it should be a corpse bully, an active hunter, a scavenger or an apex predator

[eager saddle]

bruh thats like most things.

[crimson crater]

apex predator yea it is prob because it’s our biggest land carnivore

[worthy steeple]

like if it’s an active hunter i guess it shouldn’t have body buff, if it’s a corpse bully it should be that great in offense

[crimson crater]

Not really, cera has a whole mechanic designed around it

to dissuade you

[worthy steeple]

basically, it should be something, not everything at the same time

[crimson crater]

what does it actively hunt?

[worthy steeple]

everything?

except deinos idk

[crimson crater]

Stego is off the table after it’s buff, dibbles are only doable if they are solo and you have the group advantage. Literally anything can hunt in groups

[hasty coyote]

unless you entirely rework cera's charged bite, its basically working off the principle "the best defence is a good offence". Which works for it imo as an over aggro rot goblin. Its hp is too low to really play defensive while not on a body, so it would need some insane buffs to counteract whatever nerfs you throw at it to be less aggro.

Its honestly not the best at hunting due to its slow speed, so it can really only try to fight things its own size and larger. And tbh, anything can pack up and punch up, cera only does it well because vomit stunning and preventing camping. If its bile got a slight rework to not happen immediately, it would be much better imo. Teno prob has the worst matchup against cera, but its still a relatively a 50/50. Teno can still easily maul them and has a lot of escape plans from them. Not only is its sprint faster, it has more stamina, a better trot, and can jump.

[crimson crater]

Could not have said it better man

[hasty coyote]

Honestly this discussion has sparked an idea for a bile rework that may be a middle ground between a lasting and an immediate effect. I'll prob post it in feedback but I wanted to see if anyone could poke holes in it first so I can refine it.

Rather than bile making you puke, bile just directly causes the vomit debuff. Like you don't vomit or get stunned, but each time it bites, more and more of your hunger and stamina gets locked out. However, have it scale pretty slowly, so that you would likely be dead before the stats locked out more than like 30-40%. We dont want ceras to be able to lock out 100% of stats . This essentially makes cera immeditely have the effect of draining stats slightly, but also haveing a lasting effect that scaled based on how well/bad you played. Killed the cera near instantly? heal it off in like a min. nearly died? welp gotta wait like 10 mins to heal it off. Plus it immediately stops you from being able to eat the body, so its a good body denial ability.

[crimson crater]

Sounds interesting

[vale brook]

@turbid shadow #balance-feedback message

why is pteranodon assumed to be a predator we should fear

its a 35kg bird with mostly AI on its diet.

if you want a dangerous animal in the skys, wait for quetz. dont change pteranodon into something its not instead

[turbid shadow]

why put a dino in game who does almost need any other one on the map for survive yea but ok but wen in mean time it could be balance difrently

[hasty coyote]

thats kinda how all carnivores work. If they dont have other players to eat, anything bigger than a omni would prob starve. Ptera on the other hand, since it has a bunch of ai on it diet, can survive without the need to eat other players and maintain diet. If you're saying ptera needs other predators to kill dinos for it to eat, then yeah, you can scavenge or see ai on diet. Or you can kill juvies.

genuinely, ptera's combat potential can not be good. otherwise it just bullies things 20x its size without them being able to fight back

[sleek sierra]

Not every playable needs to be balanced for pvp. There are other fighting centric games you can play if that's all you want from a game. It's fine that some games play differently. Ptera should not be dangerous to anything but the smallest creatures in game. It would be like saying a seagull should be able to kill and eat a badger.

[iron meteor]

Maia can get face tanked by a cerato
That's is actually diabolical, and it needs to do more damage

[eager saddle]

Just...run away?

you're fast af, why are you fighting the cera to begin with?

[iron meteor]

Its also one third the size of Maia

It weighs 4 tons

Obviously it shouldn't be the strongest, but it's stomps should do alot of damage to an animal of that size

[eager saddle]

okay, counterpoint, then you need to gut the speed

you cant have both

idk man, I ask yet again, why are you fighting a cera when you can just run away?

[iron meteor]

Obviously Maia doesn't have to be the strongest, not to dibble levels, but it's way to weak. Lions half the size of zebras can be easily injured if they aren't careful, now image that zebra being 3 times larger, it should do some damage

Nothing like dibble

But it wouldn't kill a cerato in more that 30 hits with its size

[eager saddle]

you do know it has a combo that does 400 damage right?

[iron meteor]

The combo also extremely slow, and easily avoidable

[eager saddle]

well it does damage that's what you wanted

I'm just saying, not every herbivore that's big has to do a lot of damage you know. It's fast and has pretty decent stam. Why do you HAVE to fight it? Just outrun it

[iron meteor]

It doesn't have to do a lot of damage, but cerato is also 1/3 the size

I don't expect to be a power house

I want it to be reasonable

[eager saddle]

Okay let's say for argument's sake (because I WILL repeat the ''why are you fighting?'' question until I get an answer and we'll get nowhere like this), you gave Maia more damage. What's stopping Maia then from literally running stuff down? Like troodons, omnis dilos etc? Not very herbivore like.

[iron meteor]

That isn't a problem with the playable

That's a problem with the player

Gali can run down most things, and is also really strong

Zebras are animals that mostly run away, and yet they can defend themselves from predators in a pinch if they need to. With a smaller size difference.

[eager saddle]

yeah but galli isnt 3.8T heavy

and much less health

[eager saddle]

key word: NEED to.

''why fight when can run'' ~Zebra, probably

[iron meteor]

Because you should be able to defend yourself easily on the companion is three times smaller than you

[eager saddle]

okay, then nerf the speed

because you shouldnt be that fast when you are 3.8T

[iron meteor]

I'm fine with that, it should still be above 42km on bipedal and take more stam that it does

[eager saddle]

running is a viable survival strategy, why MUST you do more damage

[iron meteor]

It shouldn't do more damage than a ceratopsian its size, or a carnivore. But it should be doing more damage than an animal 1/3 it's size

That's like me saying omni should do lore damage than Carno

[eager saddle]

you are literally contradicting yourself here.

''it should do more damage than an animal 1/3 its size'' ''it shouldn't do more damage than a ceratopsian its size OR a carnivore''

[iron meteor]

You can have both at the same time

That's a really big range

[eager saddle]

no? Cera falls under both categories, so no?

is it 1/3rd your size? Yes. Is it a carnivore? Yes.

[iron meteor]

CARNIVORE OF THE SAME SIZE

I literally said of the same size

[eager saddle]

not for carnivore after, so I got confused

[iron meteor]

I meant to include carnivore with that

[eager saddle]

okay then but then you get the ''why does the herbi do the same amount as the carni''

[eager saddle]

fair enough

[iron meteor]

They shouldn't be doing the same amount of damage.

It should depend on the creature

I'm not saying, Maia should be a monster

I'm saying it should just be reasonable

A ceratopsian, tyranosaur, or ankylosaurs of the same size should be able to do more damage than a Maia

It's damage is just weak for its size

It should not be a monster

[eager saddle]

but it has compensation for its weak damage by having good stam, good speed and a lot of health

if you give it even decent damage, it doesn't really have a flaw.

The 400 damage combo might be slow, but it still helps

[iron meteor]

Then take some of its speed away, so it's slower than Omni

45km is perfect for Maia

On 2 legs

And make the bipedal run take more stam

It has a quad run at 36 km and that should take less stam than the bipedal run

[leaden remnant]

@iron meteor stomp does insane damage

350 damage if you land both

and you can easily knock em down

[iron meteor]

It's also a slow attack, that's easily avoidable

Maia isn't the most agile

[leaden remnant]

maia is a beast but people don't know how to play it

[leaden remnant]

it aint a slow attack

it doesnt have any cooldown, the animation is really quick and you aren't locked in an animation

[crimson crater]

that would still make it OP

[leaden remnant]

absolutely horrendous bleed resist

bleed increase atp mfer bleeds insanely quick

[iron meteor]

Maia should take a lot more stam bipedal, and shouldnt be super agile

[golden coral]

Let it come out on live, go test, then we'll know better

[iron meteor]

Omni was slower than Carno but 10 on for years and no in cared

[leaden remnant]

it's fun to see a maia curb stomp 4 other maias cause one knows how to play

[golden coral]

Oh, is it like carno or something?

[leaden remnant]

me and some others killed about 25 maias cause guess what, they dont know how to fight as a maia

[iron meteor]

It's almost like it just came out

[leaden remnant]

exactly so dont instantly complain about too little damage when it does crazy amounts

[iron meteor]

Ehhh, some of its kicks do 50 damage

[crimson crater]

carno dosent have 4T health unlike maia

[leaden remnant]

they aint kicks

it can stun yo ass and do a ton of different things but let's let ppl figure it out

also yeah some attacks suck balls

[golden coral]

So get used to it first, then you'll know better if the damage works or not

[leaden remnant]

but don't give it more damage or we're done

more damage as in curb stomp ppl doing 600 damage

@sonic field so turns out maia tail and head dont have hitboxes

so you cant do anything to those parts

[iron meteor]

The curb stomp shouldn't by getting a buff

Other attacks, like the flurry attack while standing

50 damage a kick is sad

[leaden remnant]

certain things like the kick (useless) could get a change

[leaden remnant]

the one where it bonks you with its foot?

[iron meteor]

While it's standing so maybe

[leaden remnant]

more than 50 damage i got my ass kicked in by that thing

[sonic field]

Yeah I could tell there was something with the tail and head but it also didn't get any venom stages at all and it was night

[iron meteor]

I know it had a 50 damage kick as something

And it's per hit

[leaden remnant]

i see

[sonic field]

Yeah it did the running shove in bipedal and did the single stomp not the double stomp and got me orange

[minor zealot]

@iron meteor maias can chase down almost everything in the game. Upping its dmg is a bad idea 😭

[iron meteor]

Make it slower???

[crimson crater]

it’s fine as it is, not every dino needs to stand it’s ground, that’d just make it like everything else

[iron meteor]

It shouldn't be loosing to creatures 1/3d its size

[polar vine]

If it can chase down almost everything it doesnt always mean it can kill it

[hasty coyote]

Me when pachy dies on sight

[hasty coyote]

Hence why its damage is low. If you up the damage it has a much easier time running down things it shouldn’t.

[vale brook]

its not a fighter, point blank period. you can still defend yourself against things like ceratos, it's decently easy. but your best bet is to just run 9 times out of 10

[iron meteor]

It shouldn't be a fighter, but Gali isn't supposed to be a fighter and here we are. Maia shouldn't be able to fight carnivores, or ankylosaurs if the same size, but it should not have a hard time defending the average cerato player

[crimson crater]

just run away like you’re intended to

[golden coral]

So basically, small para?

[indigo rain]

It comes across as being built to be an effective meatshield for its young, and to knock predators away from them, before fleeing.

Its calves growing quickly to subadult to let them run faster also seems to indicate this

[brave rune]

I think I agree that the quad "run" (more like slow animation dog's gait imo) should cost less stamina to use it as the main form of locomotion. With bipedal sprint saved for escape. The animation looks more costly than bipedal though. But meh, I think the maia is in a good place as a fleeing herbivore. It's not meant to gang rush and tank hits. It's to get an advantage for the escape.

[golden coral]

Not sure how well that works, unless the juvies are really good at escaping on their own?

[indigo rain]

Juvies likely not. Thats why they grow fast. The goal is if your mother is a skilled player you quickly get 300% nutrients and hit subadult that much faster

Thats when a calf can somewhat handle itself, and with protection, make it to a productive adult to nest in the next gen with better mutations

[golden coral]

How fast do they grow?

[indigo rain]

Not sure tbh i havent timed it

But frim what im aware of they grow quickly to sub and then take a long time to hit adult

[hasty coyote]

from what I have seen, they hit a ton at 30% and are 45kph. so they put on weight and speed pretty fast.

[vale brook]

"galli isn't supposed to be a fighter" yes, that's why they removed its bleed making it significantly harder for it to actually fight

[vale brook]

we know nothing about para right now so there's no way of knowing lol

[iron meteor]

Removing bleed was solving a symptom and not the root problem. Gali is still good at combat

[golden coral]

You remember the comment, I'm sure. You know what I mean.

[golden coral]

Also weird due to big claws, it should have a little bleed, would make sense.

[vale brook]

you mean the quote kissen directly told us about earlier?

to assume we know a playables playstyle off the comment of 1 developer when para hasnt even entered active development seems disingenuious

[golden coral]

That sounds like a very convinient excuse

[vale brook]

and for the record... maia can defend against cera just fine? knock them down and spam kick them. you wont kill them if they're smart and decide to run, but you can fend them off

[golden coral]

Well, if that comment is no good, then neither is this new one

[stark knoll]

I'm sorry but that makes no sense

[vale brook]

"That sounds like a very convinent excuse"

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-turntables-gif-12190345

[golden coral]

@vale brook"its not a fighter, point blank period. you can still defend yourself against things like ceratos, it's decently easy. but your best bet is to just run 9 times out of 10", you basically said the same thing as that quote about para

[golden coral]

Except, Im not the one trying to excuse a previous comment by claiming things, but sure

[vale brook]

well atleast we know what kissen said in that screenshot is true

[golden coral]

Why would the old comment be inaccurate, but the new one not so? If the other one was not reliable, why would this one be?

[golden coral]

How so?

[crimson crater]

the double standards is crazy

[golden coral]

?

Well, if no one actually plans to explain things, then as far as maia goes, it does seem like it could do with a little bit better fighting capabilities. Granted, its new and people still need to learn how to play it, but it probably shouldnt have to run from a solo cera at least.

[cosmic pelican]

It can 2 shot it with a combo to the head though.
Shove to knock it down, and stomp its head twice.

Even if you dont land headshots thats 400dmg with 2 stomps

[golden coral]

Sounds okay, but maybe could be adjusted if its not quite good enough in some aspect

[cosmic pelican]

Considering it can just run away if the fight is goung unfavorably its more than enough imo

[golden coral]

Eh, not sure it should end up like that really, but if thats really rare then it could be fine

[cosmic pelican]

Problem is, if their damage is increased they will just be extremely oppressive without any drawbacks pretty much

What would stop people from just going around KOSing if maia also had better damage to its name?

[dusky surge]

im not a fan of the idea of lowering speed and increasing damage. literally just make it a bigger teno at that rate, exactly what people feared

[hasty coyote]

honestly, they could buff its quad/stationary attacks, but keep its bipedal/moving attacks weak.

that way its still awful at chasing, but better at standing its ground

[cosmic pelican]

Same, just leave it as is, its perfectly capable of survival anyway. Just press w+shift and you win literally every engagement.

[dusky surge]

i feel that maia's speed is by far its most unique asset

a 3.8 ton herbivore that runs faster than some of the game's fastest predators? That's pretty cool

makes it have a very unique identity

if it just fought good, then lo and behold, it's teno 2

[cosmic pelican]

If maia gets a dmg buff teno might as well be deleted

[golden coral]

If only we could get more semiaquatic teno

[dusky surge]

honestly i'd just be happy with more quad QoL rather than flat damage. Like the kick hitbox is kinda ass, and it should have an RMB option

[crimson crater]

referring to the others not you

[acoustic crown]

i feel like maia is too fast for how damaging the stomp is

omni were already getting bullied by tenos if the teno played correcly but now maia just outrun a litteral carno

i feel like the swim of the maia should also be the same as the swim speed of a cera

[fallow blaze]

hello mates

quick question:
what weight maia have as an adult
and how fast is he?

[vale brook]

3.8t

46-47 kph

[crimson crater]

46.9

[jovial vessel]

is that faster than most? I assume carno is still faster

[jovial vessel]

Outstanding

[shadow vortex]

So Carno and Herrera (if that's not a bug) got a speed buff?

I wish they'd do a patchnote, oof...

[sage marsh]

? Where are you getting that from?

[shadow vortex]

Eeh, from your message #balance-feedback-discussion message? xd Speaking of a Herrera, I saw a speed of ~50 km/h on the other man's screenshot.

But many think that's a bug though.

Or wait... I don't really remember "old" Carno's speed. Maybe it was 49.5 since the rework, oof.

[sage marsh]

No clue what you mean about Herrera.

[spring willow]

Maia 3 Stomps a full health cera

[tribal idol]

I agree that maia damage is fine, but a full health, full adult cera takes 5 headshot stomps to kill. 175 each x1.5 = 260, then 1300/260 = 5

[polar vine]

Maia is 45-46 km/h irl, teno is 40 km/h irl, cerato is 40 km/h irl, but about pachy: yes, it is slower than its supposed to be, so if they want to keep the dinosaur stats close to irl, then they could give pachy a buff, it SHOULD facetank all of them, obviously, since cerato is 3 times smaller than maia, teno is 2 times smaller than maia, and pachy is 7 times smaller than maia (according to isle wiki). I dunno what you're on @random stump

You basically think that cerato and others you mentioned should be able to facetank maia instead or what are you on?

Nvm, maia is 3.8 tons, not 3.6 tons, my bad, but still it should facetank pachy, teno and cera

and it would with the stomp ability

[random stump]

i do not think they should be able to facetank maia, but they need either an escape or a way to fight back, currently its just kinda "Die".
adding maia in its current state would effectively remove those three creatures

[polar vine]

so your point is to nerf maias speed?

Fair but you could try dodging shoves

[tribal idol]

Maia is pretty easy to dodge due to its poor agility, and in woods its even easier. not to mention at adult maia stam is not very good

[polar vine]

Yeah, and it will also run out of stamina quicker if it will keep on spamming shove additionaly

[tribal idol]

also, due to how slow maia's alt attacks are, if your a semi good cera or teno vs a ok maia, it isnt hard to do a lot of damage and bleed to it

you can easily get on its ass and just get free hits if it isnt smart

[leaden remnant]

ehhhhh no not really

ive fought about 25 maias as a teno, the bad ones were free kills but the good ones were impossible

my maia friends had to come in clutch cause if not i was dead

imagine a 3.8 ton carno with insta knockdown on ram

[tribal idol]

I mean yea, good ones are impossible to 1v1, but you can easily dodge in my experience

[leaden remnant]

they got more stam than you tho

maia has incredible stamina

[tribal idol]

not really, maia stam at adult is not great

[leaden remnant]

nah it's insane

[tribal idol]

ive played adult maia for like 10 hours already

[leaden remnant]

they run down anything they want

they are faster and have better running stamina so they just run down whatever they choose to

[tribal idol]

its worst stam then cera and carno atleast of what ive experienced

[leaden remnant]

even dilo, which has amazing running stamina, can't even run away