balance-feedback-discussion

[leaden remnant]

they've tried it many times before

@onyx lichen why only herbis

[vale brook]

im assuming because youll generally be fighting other carnivores for their bodies, and shouldnt exactly be "hunting" very often. although that just makes you bad at hunting herbivores, not other carnivores.

id nerf its bile again rn and then buff it to the OP state it was in when its around bodies. or have its bile intensity scale with the size of bodies

[leaden remnant]

probably

[sand garden]

Its also insane to me how agile Cerato is while Dilo has to turn like a dump trunk lol, I feel like the roles should be reversed until Cerato is around a corpse.

[hasty coyote]

Dilo is less agile more so for the Omni v dilo fight. Dilo is faster and wins a face tank, but Omni is more agile and pounce is devastating for dilo.
Pretty much the opposite is true for cera v carno too. Cera is the more agile one who wins in a face tank, but carno is faster and can hit and run easily.

Changing either of them ruins those matchups

[sand garden]

After the Carno change you'd think the fight leans more in Ceratos favors anyways and the agility just making it all the more superior but perhaps, since Carno is the ''small game hunter'' you'd think it'd need far more agility over Cerato..Who's suppose to be the corpse bully tanky type.

But then when I think about Allo being on the horizon I'm like eeehh...Its toast either way. 😅

[hasty coyote]

It’s DEFINITELY more in cera’s favor now as it should be. It’s just the nature of carno being fast that allows it to hit and run. If we decrease its agility, then cera would have a pretty hard time hitting a carno. And carno with more agility means that it just runs down small game with no way for them to escape and can bully cera more. Carno’s poor agility is the only reason many dinos like Omni’s have a chance to get away. If you want to see what it would be like for carno to have good agility, see dilo v carno. And if you want to see how poor agility on a larger dino deals with carno, see 1.5 ton diablo v carno. Both of these fights are pretty rough for the target.

Also, cera ain’t toast from allo. Cera can likely outrun it. If allo outruns cera, then teno is extinct and pachy is just more dead.

[sand garden]

That is true, I dare not want for a more agile carno, but nor do I appreciate a agile cerato when it has a lot going for it especially in numbers.

But even when a class seems broken now, it'll be nothing in the face of whats to come honestly, so ya in changes will tarnish any fragile chance they have.

[sage marsh]

Its all good. An Allo is going to successfully kill a stego and then a Cera is gonna see that immediately get it max damage mitigation buff and try to bully the wounded Allo. Which is honestly what it should be doing.

[sand garden]

Agreed, tho I think it should take a pack of ceratos to take the corpse away, but this is also why I'd like to see eat to heal mutation go, so the corpse bully can actually have a chance at being one without other carnivores (and herbivores) just healing that damage off immediately.

[spring field]

am i the only one that thinks teno kicks r powerfull, like it stuns same as the tail attacks and can be used everytime( like no need to run like dibble)

if you thinks its fine than the tail attacks useless damn xhoose one

[hasty coyote]

Kicks have a worse cc range than tail slam. Tail slam can knockdown ceras and carnos, but kick only stuns them. Kick is also a rear weapon with a small hitbox, so it’s incredibly difficult to use it offensively. So whatever it’s fighting has to choose to get in range of that kick. Or if it’s a Dino teno can outrun, they are generally big enough to shrug off the hit and hit the teno twice as hard.

Tail slam has just kept getting nerfed for no reason and now it’s honestly kinda detrimental to use. The pathetic damage, long windup, and attack lock AFTER the animation finishes are making it pretty bad. I’d rather they buff tail slam to not be useless than nerf kick and have teno be entirely useless.

Like if we compare this to Diablo, who has an aggressive attack with a large hitbox, no stam cost, and generous hitbox, it really shows how teno’s defensive abilities are not that strong.

[onyx lichen]

Bile's intended purpose is claim bodies and steal them from other Carnivores

[leaden remnant]

if dilo had good agility we'd be done

with how dilo is made, it must have absolutely terrible agility

[onyx lichen]

Reducing how much bile is applied to herbs is to make it less efficient at big game hunting, and it makes sense since Herbs have more complex stomachs

[sand garden]

If they could just make it were dilos had to have more interaction with its victim to apply the clones it'd be better honestly, that one idea TurkishDelight threw around about it awhile back was good.

[cobalt dagger]

So, you've noticed, sometimes you'll pounce something. You'll latch onto it properly, and it will make a pain sound. Then suddenly, you'll teleport dead into it's mouth or impaled on the tail?

This happens because, on their screen, the stego swiped you long before you latched. On your screen, you properly latched. The game then validates 'both' and both of you take damage. But in the trade, a pounce for a stego tail swipe does not favor the raptor.

Ping favoring the hitter ONLY benefits raptors vs things they can pin. In the long run, vs EVERYTHING ELSE, this mechanic hurts raptors far far more than it helps them.

I have not read everything btw, only the stuff I've specifically replied to.

[cobalt dagger]

I approve of dilo having poor agility so long as it's faster than raptor.

Additionally poor bleed resist.

[cobalt dagger]

Anyway though basically as for this, I still wish bad ping didn't favor the hitter.

Nor do I want it to favor the victim of the hit.

I prefer it give you no assistance at all because bad ping is too easy to acquire.

[cobalt dagger]

I fear very much that allo will outrun pachy/cera/teno. I agree entirely that they will go extinct if such is the case and so I hope such won't be the case.

It would be acceptable if it didn't have the stamina to maintain chase and was forced to remain an ambusher.

I think, a good idea for such creatures - If it's stamina was so awful that it could not chase, that would also make travel feel terrible unless the trot was very very good like Teno's. (But then would it trot-things down?)
I was thinking, maybe it could have a base run speed that was slow but had decent stamina, and then some kind of 'dash' that does no damage and who's only purpose is 2-3 seconds of quick speed used for ambushing. This way, it can use the slower but normal sprint for travel and self-defense combat, and the 'dash' for closing distance on ambushing prey. Ideally the 'dash' would have a 'charge' bar below the stamina and recharge very very slowly, to limit it's use in self defense combat.

[leaden remnant]

they tried what u said many times, it was hell

if the server decides what happens, nothing will ever work

90% fail 10% success on a good day

[cobalt dagger]

I'm not sure what you mean by the server deciding or not, I take it that it already does and that's why one with bad ping will benefit you if you can take the trade.

If you mean that they made attempts to change how this works and instead it favors the victim of the hit, that is unfortunate.

But not what I am requesting.

[leaden remnant]

i don't remember how it worked, right now if it lands on your screen the server allows it, but many times they've tried doing the opposite and it was the worst experience ever

bruh how did i misread what you said SO BADLY

you're completelu correct you never said anything even close to what i just said

[cobalt dagger]

Hey what do you think about allo having a dash?

I wanted to talk more about it in the suggestion I made but I didn't have enough space

[leaden remnant]

i don't see much point in that

dryo kinda has that rn?

[cobalt dagger]

That's a dodge

[leaden remnant]

le dodge

[cobalt dagger]

I'm talking like, a forward burst of speed, like increasing your run speed for like 3 seconds at the cost of heavy stamina drain

Well heavier than normal

So you see, I hear rex is gonna have good speed and damage but terrible stamina.

[leaden remnant]

wouldn't make much sense imo

[cobalt dagger]

It seems like the terrible stamina would make travel really annoying

Unless they give it a lovely trot

[leaden remnant]

bru

[cobalt dagger]

I suppose a lovely trot seems like a good thing for rex to have though.

Seems fitting. I am unsure if allo should also have a lovely trot though

[hasty coyote]

Honestly I dont think the ambush role works for something like allo. Allo is supposed to be a generalist. So making any ambbush specific mechanic would either require so many caveats to ensure it can't be abused and be weak or make allo weaker in other departments, or allo would end up becoming op with it.

[cobalt dagger]

Oh, I didn't know allo was a generalist, I thought it was an ambush hunter with the ability to pin things cera/teno sized.

If it's a generalist then I don't know why it's able to pin such large things

Pins are good for ambush hunters who cannot chase their prey and require some method of quick execution

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message @peak hinge well sitting on a rock doesnt stop venom from being venom lol

[cobalt dagger]

@tall bronze I love your mutation ideas/revisions.

[tall bronze]

Thank you! I'm glad you like them :3

[heady zealot]

@twilit seal I agree, if pounce is nerfed then bleed damage should be increased. I’ve yet to see a raptor pack take down a Stego or dibble

[twilit seal]

I mean I have seen people, and myself taking on dibbles, but its also not as fun/satisfying just killing with raw damage in my opinion

[heady zealot]

Yeah and my personal experience obviously isn’t indicative towards what’s actually happening, but while watching raptor packs (Hererra) and playing as Raptor most of the kills are juvies, and two-three raptors pinning something like a carno

[peak hinge]

Lol I get that, but the clone teleporting is not intentional design, im sure

[astral granite]

@tepid tartan you are lucky being alive after 1 bite of a sub cerato, fg herreras are big turkeys with claws, the bite of a sub cera realistically would instakill you

[tepid tartan]

it's cause it was a tail bite and he was still relatively small, it got me around half an hour later with one hit; but i still stand by my point that it's too much- was watching some herra gameplay and the player, full grown full hunger, vomited after being bit once by a juvi cera smaller than him
You gotta admit it's a tad ridiculous

[dapper portal]

is hordtesting down?

[stark knoll]

Yup

[dapper portal]

kk thanks

[vale brook]

a 40% sub is likely almost double your weight @tepid tartan #balance-feedback message

frankly id be surprised if you didnt puke instantly lol

#balance-feedback message

and for this, its not the hallucinations themselves causing damages. its a visual way to represent the venom doing damage over time. you're meant to be able to fight back against them, though that seems to have broke when they improved it so you cant cheese it out by climbing or hopping on a rock

[tepid tartan]

yeah, but that's the thing
you can't physically fight against venom, so why does fighting against hallucinations make any sense?

[vale brook]

because people dont enjoy dying to things with no counterplay, hence why you made the suggestion lol

balance and interesting mechanics come before realism at the end of the day, the isle isnt aiming for a realistic experience

they need to a) reduce the damage down to maybe .75x normal dilo damage and b) make it possible to fight back whilst still being challenging

i would be fine with keeping current damage if hallucination charges required the Dilo to bite its prey to recharge it but that leads to the issue of "i run on rock, now i live lol"

[tepid tartan]

yeah, the damage is far too much
the dilo i was fighting was a sub about my size so i wasn't hurting too bad after it bit me, but it only took getting hit by the hallucinations twice before i died

[vale brook]

tbh i think the damage on the hallucinations very well could be bugged rn

they're supposed to do 85 damage like normal dilos but i refuse to believe they're doing that

[tepid tartan]

yeah, that was absolutely more than 85

man seeing that hal dilo running in place above me on the cliff then suddenly teleporting through the wall got me good XD
wish i could share the clip cause it's amazing

might've gotten the clip small enough to work
but yeah, Gallus' idea is great; that would not only look cool as hell, but it'd also make it look like an intentional mechanic and not so weird/buggy

[heady zealot]

@viscid schooner I get where you’re coming from. Right now due to pin it’s almost better to just ambush juvies to instantly pin and kill them than hunt in a pack with buggy pouncing, rng bucking, and the high possibility of dying to fall damage from a missed pounce.

[worthy steeple]

@tall spear #balance-feedback message wdym “keeps getting shadownerfed”? was there another nerf?

[tall spear]

@worthy steeple It keeps getting it's tail slam damaged nerfed, and if it hits Ceratos and Carnos in certain spots even if they aren't the tail, it will only stagger instead of knockdown. Teno's tail slam does 150 damage which is abysmal for how much stam it takes.

[worthy steeple]

you know whats funny? 150 is a headshot, the regular damage is just 100💀

[tall spear]

@worthy steeple Man i'm dead ☠️

[shadow vortex]

Wth I thought 150 is base damage to the body.

[worthy steeple]

they nerfed by 50 dmg 2 month ago

💀

like it wasnt hard enough to fight back cerato hordes

[leaden remnant]

it aint

just run

you outstam outrun and outtrot em

teno balance isn't all bout cera and teno

[stark ether]

Does enlarged meniscus allow beipi to survive any hits that would normally 1-shot it?

[leaden remnant]

ummmmmmmmmmmmm you mean congenital hypoalgesia

[stark ether]

Right, that one

[leaden remnant]

it might be able to

[tribal quarry]

@strong saffron Agree especially the last part about "without damaging"

[strong saffron]

thank you, i would really love to see the input of people who disagree. i don't understand why anyone would actually disagree, unless they themselves aren't good enough to play the game without mixpacking.

[tribal quarry]

This would be a balanced input since lots of carnis stalk herbis near them so if they get a debuff instantly they would be screwed and also deinos sometimes live very close to herbivores or carnivores on the surface so if they get a debuff it's just unfair and sometimes they can't bite people

[strong saffron]

that's where the some time comes in, of course the debuff wouldn't be instantaneous, i would think 7 minutes or so would sound balanced. i don't think anyone stalks someone that long without actually eventually attacking. the rules with deino would of course be different, as their entire playstyle revolves around waiting for prey.

[tribal quarry]

It changes for every Dino like the rules on strict rp servers

[strong saffron]

exactly. all depends on playstyle. i don't understand how people downvote it and then go complain about the game not being realistic lmao. because a pack of full grown cera's definitely didn't attack dibbles on sight in real life. (irony)

[tribal quarry]

Lol

Maybe it should be optional in unofficial and there should be seperate officials dedicated towards it, but it shouldn't be implemented in all the officials

[strong saffron]

i think this is the best compromise, it can cater to everyone's playstyles in that case

[tribal quarry]

😊

Yes

[dusky surge]

then its just rules

in which case, go to unofficials if you want mixpacking rules

why add a mechanic that fundamentally is the same thing but actually way easier to abuse

[dusky surge]

stalk a slow herbivore as a fast carnivore
never attack, that'll ruin the plan
debuff it, wait until the debuffs are at their maximum
call over your rex friend in discord who you had be away so he can be completely safe from debuffs
he easily kills it, and now you and the rex both get an easy meal
split up again so you can do it again

literally created an even better way to mixpack

[strong saffron]

i don't understand how that ties into debuffing carnis? they're the ones causing the most destruction in mix packs

[dusky surge]

you're debuffing whoever you want dead and calling in a non-debuffed creature to easily obliterate it

[strong saffron]

this is easily countered by the herbi attacking/ the herbi not receiving an as significant debuff. the debuff could also be altered to go away upon receiving any player dealt damage in a way that the time between receiving damage gets shorter and shorter in order to encourage continuously attacking to counter just using one attack to remove the debuff.

[dusky surge]

herbi attacking what? if the carnivore remains out of range, it'll just never be able to hit

[strong saffron]

attacking the second attacker. if the carnivore remains out of range, the debuff is never applied.

[dusky surge]

then how long is the range? if it's very short, all i need to do is space out my mixpack members and it's perfectly ok

i can mixpack as much as i want as long as i'm not cuddling the other guys

[strong saffron]

that would come down to the fine tuning of certain species to apply the debuff, it'd have to be long enough to space out different species but short enough to keep it from randomly activating unnoticed. another counter for this is to actively reduce the speed of the carni stalking it so that the herbi can catch up to deal some damage/ can run away far enough to remove the debuff. or it works the other way around as well, maybe give the herbi a speed buff.

[mint star]

still very easily abusable

especially if you try and give herbivores a speed buff to fight the carnivore

because then you’d get players mixpacking with the herbivore to abuse the speed buff

9 reasons why stress debuffs are bad (Bubulblu's mixpacking List) :

1. Griefers can and will continue griefing even with debuffs, unless they lead to death, which would pose a much bigger problem.
2. Depending on the range and timing of debuffs occuring, players can abuse them by regularly getting away from each other and continue griefing.
3. It ruins prolonged fights. Some fights in the game can last for 30+ minutes, but the game cannot tell the difference between a fight where no one hits each other for some time and mixpacking.
4. Mixpacking isn't necessarily an issue. There is nothing wrong with a group of small dinos hanging around a larger one who they know cannot catch them.
5. Temporary alliances can be fine. Two groups of predators can hunt the same prey and decide to help each other until said prey is dead, or two prey animals could stand side-by-side to defeat a powerful predator, without being necessarily griefers. The point of the game is to maximize your chances of survival.
6. It promotes deathmatch gameplay instead of survival, by forcing players to either run away or kill anything that isn't their own species.
7. A fast dino can purposefully debuff a slower one by following it and causing debuffs. Again, griefers don't care if they're being debuffed.
8. It ruins hiding. In a jungle or near water, two players can be very close to each other without being aware of each other's presence. Debuffs occuring would give them away to each other.
9. Stress implies forcing psychological reactions on a player, which is a bad thing to do in a horror game. A dino has no reason to be stressed or afraid if the player controlling it isn't. The game should try to scare off the player themselves, not their character.

[glossy elbow]

the only way mixpacking can be avoided without it being abusable is through server rules. personally i've yet to see to a single mixpacking suggestion that wasn't abusable in some way or another

[strong saffron]

I understand how it could prove an issue and be abusable, though i still think the balance team could come up with a way utilizing debuffs. Personally, on that list, Number 4, 5, and 6 are completely irrelevant considering how the game functions. I will go into detail:

4: Mixpacking isn't always an issue, unless it's a carni-herbi mixpack, in which case the herbivores actively help the carnivores locate and chase other prey, including both carnivores and herbivoers.
5: Temporary alliances are not the same as Mixpacking at all, in this case this point has no connection to the problem with mixpacking. In my personal experience, after defeating some other prey/something larger in a temporary alliance, after the fight another fight begins over the food immediately.
6: Also in my personal experience, all the players I come across whether as carni or herbi (unless the other player is a herbi as well) either run away or attempt to chase me down depending on if they think they can kill me or not

[cobalt dagger]

@tardy peak I think for it's growtime, it's OK for dilo to loose against those situations. Dilo grows the same time as raptor/herra/ptera/pachy/dryo, so it theoretically should be within their power level. For being within their level of power, it has a LOT of hp and speed, plus venom that now works on tree'd herras. I think he's in a good spot considering how short his growtime is/comparing to the other animals in dilo's 'level.'

[hasty coyote]

honestly, herbie-herbie mixpacks are just as awful imo. Like a teno+gali+stego murder squad can go around killing anything. If they run, galis chase them down and the tenos keep pace. If they don't run, stegos murder them. Plus, even just a small herbie mixpack like 2 pachies and a teno can cover each others weaknesses so much that they are entirely untouchable to their own tier. Pachy's weakness is its low damage output and low hp, teno's weakness is that the target has to approach them to get hit. So pachy just leg fractures something and then the tenos maul it.

[cobalt dagger]

Not to mention, dilo can live off of sea turtles in a way raptors can't.

Dilo can run away from all those situations except the carno. The carno is kinda built to be a dilo-raptor hunter though, that's like. His thing.

[strong saffron]

fair enough, but i think the difference is that if you die to a herbi mixpack, it's really your fault. I've been in a couple and from personal experience, I've never chased after anyone with a herbi mixpack, nor have any of them chased after me. The important difference is Carni-herbi mixpacks hunt just about anything, while herbi mixpacks only attack if you do first/if provoked

[cobalt dagger]

Dilo still excels if you have a group, the enemy can't face all of you if you get on opposite sides, and just keep biting the unguarded side.

[hasty coyote]

just because they usually don't, doesnt mean they cant. I have seen teno and pachy mixpacks just go around murdering any other herbivore they see. If you remove carni-carni and carni-herbie, they will just move to herbie-herbie and do the same thing with different dinos.

[strong saffron]

at that point it's just literal greefing, honestly. i don't see a reason why they would do that other than to just ruin the fun of other players. you actively have no reason to harm other herbis as a herbi.

[hasty coyote]

yeah, thats exactly why you see herbie-carni and carni-carni mixpacks. Most are there to just grief, fight, and/or always win. If you remove one option they will just go to another. Whether that be herbies and carnis, just herbies, or just a mega swarm of the most op dino and like one or 2 scouts who stay away. People will find a way to metagame, it is inevitable.

Personally, my best solution is not to just debuff them directly, but to instead prevent their fun. Make mixpacks easily scentable. Can't grief people if they know you're coming and they just leave.

[strong saffron]

that's a good idea. if they add a quick, simple scent icon that shows mixpackers, it shows you that you should avoid that area/run or hide somewhere else.

[hasty coyote]

heres my exact idea: #general-feedback message

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

while charging, it's faster than galli

[hasty coyote]

@random stump it does go faster, with charge. However, thats still just an issue with speed mutations ruining speed matchups. Like cera being faster than PACHY with a speed mutation

[random stump]

does the charge not chew through its stamina

[hasty coyote]

not really honestly. Someone tested it when it was reworked, you cover the same distance in a full stam bar by sprinting or by charging. I'll see if I can find it

I can't seem to find it, but I'll honestly go test it real quick

[hasty coyote]

So, carno literally goes the exact same distance by burning all its stam charging compared to sprinting. And it took about 2:15 to burn my stam while running while it took about 1:50 while charging. (charging on left, running on right. look at coords) I did this by starting at the edge of the bridge to highlands and running down the path to south plains.

[tribal quarry]

what?

thats cool but i dont think its a balance thing lol charge makes u faster but uses more stam so u can do damage

[hasty coyote]

I was posting this in refence to Fsh's feedback. Since he claimed that it was not the fastest and then said it chewed through stam. So I'm showing that charge really doesnt chew through stam that much.

[tribal quarry]

cool

[limpid vortex]

@tardy peak skill issue

[gleaming crow]

Why is the omni bite cooldown so long ;-;

It forces you to have to pounce people to do any damage, and once your stamina is out you're screwed. You have no simple method of attack when all else fails, the cooldown is so long that most opponents have already bitten 3-4 times before you get your second. Don't really understand why the cooldown for omni's most basic attack is like 3 seconds compared to other, similarly sized and larger dinos.

[leaden remnant]

not only raptor but also carno and deino

[cosmic pelican]

And troodon

Even though it has the weakest bite among carnivores

[gleaming crow]

Damn really? It seemed like carno bites weren't too bad but I haven't played them in a hot minute. For troo that sounds ridiculous. Deino kiiiiinda makes sense but it also doesnt have many means of attack and already does a ton of damage, but still sounds annoying.

Is there like a (updated) spreadsheet with the bite cooldowns for each playable somewhere?

[leaden remnant]

nope, just know that herbi cooldowns are way faster than carni cooldowns

teno, herrera, dilo, stego and hypsi are the fast ones iirc (might be more not totally sure9

[vale brook]

cerato also has a pretty fast bite imo

[leaden remnant]

decently quick

was mentioning the really quick ones tho

[vale brook]

yeah that tracks

dilo i can somewhat understand, idk about herrera and the others tho lol

but then again i wouldnt really shorten them, id make the other slower bite speeds comparable to them (on animals that need it, like omni and troodon and carno)

[leaden remnant]

^^

[vale brook]

deinos bite can stay slow idrc cause it can 1 everything on the roster except itself

[leaden remnant]

nah all bites gotta be decently quick we cant have a 2 second cooldown

[dusky surge]

its a gator. it should bite slow

[leaden remnant]

not fun

[dusky surge]

its a gator

[leaden remnant]

doesnt matter

[dusky surge]

does

increase the power if you must, but keep it slow

[leaden remnant]

you said it yourself, realism has nothing to do here

[dusky surge]

who said anything about realism

[leaden remnant]

it's a gator

[dusky surge]

a gator biting fast is less about realism and more about immersion. it'd look dumb.

[leaden remnant]

you said it yourself

many things look dumb in this game

theres literally no reason to make any bite have a 2 second cooldown

[dusky surge]

it being a gator with a very powerful bite makes sense to me

[leaden remnant]

nah a 2 second cooldown is way too much

cooldown shouldnt be as long as the animation but a very small number

or just shorten the anim

[gleaming crow]

I dont mind a long cooldown as long as the dino in question isnt at a huge loss without it. Its not fun having to wait to use a basic attack when said basic attack is already very weak, it should always be a safe option to fall back on when you need it. In the case of gator and stego tho, imo, the the cooldown doesnt affect them much because 1 hit is all you need to deter most other dinos on the roster aside from your own species. Haven't really played stego, but I don't feel the annoyance of the cooldown much with deino.

On something like an omni it is very noticable.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

brother doesn't even know how much diablo does yet is asking for "necessary nerfs" LMAO

[vale brook]

@alpine plover #balance-feedback message

you realize this would buff dibble right

by ALOT

[dusky surge]

istg people just make up numbers at this point

it would literally do more damage

[vale brook]

dibble doesnt even do 300 damage, let alone 500

[dusky surge]

370 is more than 275

dibble's damage is 275

[vale brook]

^ dibbles actual damage number

you want to buff it by almost 100 damage lol

[dusky surge]

(irregardless said nerfs are unnecessary)

[heady zealot]

Yeah why is Hererras bite so damn fast lol, I don’t even use it when I play Hererra

[leaden remnant]

most troubling is dilo

bites 5 times in the time a raptor/deino has bitten once

[heady zealot]

Yeah I think I’ve seen more dilos than any other carnivore lately, even Cera

[distant torrent]

that’s assuming all 5 hit and don’t miss from the small and strange hitbox of dilo’s bites. if that was fixed then I’d definitely be complaining about the bite speed

[haughty grotto]

@alpine plover thats a visual bug, not a hitbox issue
raptor pounce hitbox is pretty forgiving for the prey, misses pretty easily
but often even if you hit right on target, the game visually makes the prey run away for like half a second before falling down while the raptor stays at the original spot

[hallow flint]

will we ever get raptors bitecool down removed

[cosmic pelican]

No, because the devs dont want damahe hacks to be a thing again

[leaden remnant]

maybe lowered but cooldowns are here cause cheaters would just bite 10000000 times in a milisecond

[cosmic pelican]

Just increase animation speed, we had a patch with speedy raptor bites already

[dusky surge]

@analog mirage while i agree tact endurance is too good, that change would just make it still problematic

[analog mirage]

Not necesarily. it's only really good to run as you cannot regen at 25% or below without sitting

[dusky surge]

I had a change for it where once you were wounded, stamina decay and stamina regen were increased

This would actually be better imho
A: It's out of your control, it's not effectively just a larger stam pool
B: Once you're wounded, you're on the backfoot already and probably best off fleeing
C: It fits the "damage = stamina" mentality without overselling it

I think having it just give you more stam when you're low on stam is effectively just making a "more stam" mutation

[worthy steeple]

tbf tactical endurance being herbivore only is already pretty balanced, it helped me escape cerato mega packs a lot of times, the devs already made it 2 times
worse than it was before (from 50% to 25%)

tho i’m surprised they nerfed tactical, but didn’t nerf more problematic ones like gastro or speed buff

[cosmic pelican]

Gastro got a rework

Instead of healing a set amount of hp, its heals 5% no matter what.

So it became much less useful for smaller animals, but its busted on large tiers lol

[leaden remnant]

tactile cant be balanced

the fact that it helped you escape cera megapacks proves it's beyond busted

[leaden remnant]

can only be removed

[tall bronze]

I think that's an odd way to look at it 😛
Could just change the effect instead of just deleting it

[distant torrent]

@dry crown carno is still faster than dilo. if dilo is catching up to a carno (both adult), then the dilo is using a speed mut and the carno isn’t

which is a speed mutation problem, not a carno problem. carno has zero issue escaping other carnivores because it’s still the fastest land carnivore. especially if it uses ram to get away. that buffs its speed by a landslide

speed mutations should be deleted imho

[leaden remnant]

any stam effect will turn it into meta unless it sucks balls

[hasty coyote]

thats the issue with literally every combat mutation. They are either useless or op, there is literally 0 middle ground. If they are strong enough to make an impact, they're too strong. If they don't make an impact then they are useless. Many of them need to be changed to be more useful out of combat rather than during combat.

[tall bronze]

My personal idea for Tactile Endurance was to completely swap the effects for something new, but still keeping the theme of your animal reacting to incoming damage. Rather than converting damage to stamina, it would instead grant brief rapid stamina recovery and a speed boost (stay with me) for several seconds after receiving a particular percentage of damage within a short time period (eg; at least 30% of your maximum health lost within 10 seconds). Long enough to get on out of the fight, but not so much that you can run a marathon. Afterwards, it'd go on a fairly lengthy cooldown of ~10 minutes.
-# Another part of the idea was to rename it to "Adrenergic Response" to make the name more thematically fitting

The idea is basically your dino going into full FLIGHT mode when receiving enough damage, but you can't just trigger it over and over to not be tired + run faster in combat. Adrenaline ain't cheap, so use it wisely.

[hasty coyote]

I like the rough concept, but a speed boost is a no go imo. speed should never be touched as it determines WAY too much in a fight and is super finicky. Even a 5% increase allows cera to run down pachies and dilos to run faster than carnos.

I'd rather something along the lines of after taking X% of your hp within like 30 secs to a minute, gain 20% decreased stam decay. So its useful only AFTER you get hit and only useful for running. This means you are still trackable and likely pretty hurt, but have a slightly better chance of actually making it out. Or simply less hp = faster stam regen.

[tall bronze]

That could work as well 👍

[dusky surge]

<@&933486433342222376> there's a PROMO here for US

FREE STUFF

[plucky aspen]

I hate discord mobile

[sand garden]

#balance-feedback message Please give the lil rat more attention. 🙏

[stark knoll]

@light wind You can fly from swamp up to highlands without using your entire stam bar. It's most efficient to ascend while holding W and looking just above the horizon

You also use no stamina to take off while latching or falling

[light wind]

Yeah I've been latching whenever possible because of that reason but it feels like if I touch sprint at all it just destroys my stam

[hasty coyote]

the devs are already planning stuff like air vents and currents to help pteras travel easier. Some help you get higher, others help you move faster.

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message

ACTUALLY BASED!!! we have based feedback in #balance-feedback people!!

no but seriously, it messes with me hunting elite fish as a small deino as well. so annoying

[dusky surge]

What does the upward lunge mean

[stark knoll]

maybe they're talking about the surface dash/lunge? i dont play deino though so idk

[final coral]

since when can you not turn and RMB with the deino, yall are really messing that thing up RIP

[slim dragon]

Do you mean they finally fixed deini being able to instantly turn 90° with its lunge ? Finally ! I might play beipi again

[mint star]

@frail idol the game isnt intended to be "accurate"

infact, these "dinosaurs" arent actually dinosaurs

theyre reptiles in the shape of their namesake

although it gets down to a whole bunch of literal, technical, and semantic meanings, but thats the idea

balance wise for dilo, i honestly think it would be fine if the hallucinations were fixed

[keen plover]

500kg, 41 - 45km/h dilo would be omni fodder

[slim dragon]

Everyone who says the game is supposed to be accurate/realistic is wrong

Dilo isn't even the least accurate thing we got

[worthy steeple]

that’s a game, not real life🥹💀

[frozen ibex]

Spino:

Teno:

[worthy steeple]

they didn’t, like almost whole roaster is fictional🥲

[frozen ibex]

^^

[worthy steeple]

how people don’t understand that balance is more important than concept arts/paleo accuracy and etc

[slim dragon]

Beipi :
Omni (doesn't even exist)
Herrera :
Carno :
Cerato :

[frozen ibex]

iirc dilo irl was like 700kg lmfao

take that with a grain of salt tho

[worthy steeple]

i think the stego and deino are the only real ones💀

at least close to real

[frozen ibex]

deinos dimensions are undersized but the weight is good

[slim dragon]

Even stego lacks the gular armor, and deino is somewhat undersized (also both break the laws of physics)

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[slim dragon]

Deino is based on hatcheri, which is now theorized to be about 13 tons

[frozen ibex]

isn't it riograndensis?

[slim dragon]

It was called hatcheri on Seiza's trailer

[frozen ibex]

theoretically

how large would elder deino be

I've seen 18 tonne estimates

[slim dragon]

That's a lot

[frozen ibex]

It is

[slim dragon]

That much of a size increase I think would be detrimental, because you end up being too big to hide underwater

[frozen ibex]

It was probably more like 16 tonnes

[worthy steeple]

that’s insane if that’s true

[frozen ibex]

deino was one of if not the largest carnivore that isn't fully aquatic to exist I think

pretty hefty gator

teno is not 1.6 tonnes last time I checked

tilleti showed 700-1000kg marks

please don't use prehistoric wiki outdated information thanks

sure buddy

[slim dragon]

Teno is twice its irl size, and quadrupedal instead of bipedal
Beipi is less than a third of its irl size, and aquatic instead of terrestrial
No existing raptor has stats similar to those of omni

[frozen ibex]

And dibble

[slim dragon]

Dinos in this game aren't right or wrong, they're made-up creations
Nothing's accurate about them, they aren't supposed to be

[frozen ibex]

I think we all know about dibble

[slim dragon]

If they were accurate there would be like 5 species and the rest would get outcompeted to extinction

It's how the devs want it to be

In fact, I think dibble is one of the most accurate dinos in the roster
With only the size being inaccurate

[dusky surge]

funnily enough, stego and deino are ALSO underweight

[worthy steeple]

xD

[frozen ibex]

I wouldn't call deino underweight, 8 tonnes seems fair for adult size
Elder though? Of course not

[worthy steeple]

teno was bipedal irl? what?

[slim dragon]

Yeah mostly

[worthy steeple]

lmao

is there a source i can read?

[slim dragon]

So yes, exactly as I said
The only think inaccurate with dibble is its size
As for the speed, every creature in this game is insanely fast so whatever

[frozen ibex]

rex being as fast as cera lol

[slim dragon]

(and in-game carno can reach close to 60 km/h)
While cera is ABOVE 40 km/h
So I stand by what I said

[dusky surge]

i'm about to blow your mind

the game isn't meant to be based on realistic dinosaur stats and will actively do whatever the hell it wants if said dinosaur doesn't befit the balance state of the game (see: diablo, carnotaurus, dilophosaurus)

[worthy steeple]

can’t find any source that can prove that, i guess it was quadropedal but could change the stance

[slim dragon]

(I already told them that like 3 times already)

[worthy steeple]

not in the current roaster

[dusky surge]

i feel like people get "immersive" confused with "realistic"

does the isle FEEL realistic? ya, because it convinces you that it is by being extremely IMMERSIVE with expressive animation, detailed models and environments, a wide variety of expressive sound designs for each animal, etc

but it also has venomous dilo, climbing herrera, omniraptor in general, brawler tenonto, scavenger cerato with the power to gain damage resist for being near a corpse, troodon in general, duck beipi

and that's not even mentioning the future. Dinosaurs with EMPs, dinosaurs literally built like Godzilla, dinosaurs which have acid spit and camouflage, movie monster spinosaurus, an 8 foot tall human-esque creature which feeds on other humans and can climb basically any surface, a creature that ingests biomass to evolve and grow from a mosquito-type thing to the size of a literal dragon

it is not realistic. let's not fool ourselves

THIS THING STILL IS OFFICIAL. REALISM BE DAMNED

[frozen ibex]

isnt matriarch not canon

[dusky surge]

it is def canon

the fanart for it is not canon

also that's the echidna, not the matriach

[frozen ibex]

i know but im wondering about the matriarch description

the EMP dinosaurs are crazy tho lmao

also what the hell is this thing?

[dusky surge]

that's my point. realism is a moot argument and always will be

[slim dragon]

Island Walker
Probably not canon anymore

[dusky surge]

islandwalker. very old concept, idk how canon it is today

[frozen ibex]

isle lore is very hard to find

for me atleast

[vale brook]

so close! the dinosaurs were designed by a company for purposes we dont know, but atleast some of them are designed to be closer to weapons than anything else (looking at you, Omni)

[worthy steeple]

beipi is a doom slayer

[vale brook]

omniraptor has lore relevance lol

im glad you know english, but that doesnt change the lore behind the animals lol

so... are we ignoring the human buildings, the trail cams, the entire discord channel dedicated to lore, the multiple lore aspects dondi has given us, GUTS, etc

we dont have all the lore obviously, but its there lol

you can, but im guessing you wont lol

really not that hard to find; https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J3FnAzKdtmlIYzTfgSlevTgGLcn8h-Zaxlqn3WEicVw/edit?tab=t.0

infact it was the first pinned message you see when visiting #isle-lore-theories

[daring spindle]

Tell me you haven’t read the document without telling me you haven’t read the document

[dusky surge]

why would he read it lol that would go against him just saying things with no source

[vale brook]

if you would read the document you would know the 'theories' come from things in game and said by dondi himself

but as wave said, i really dont expect you to read it lol

[dusky surge]

honestly, the fact you're arguing realism over its weight and speed, rather than its literal venom is pretty funny to me

[vale brook]

thats great, but dont try to change the game because you yourself refuse to familarize yourself with lore the game has had forever

[dusky surge]

lmao

[vale brook]

"the lore isnt in game yet so personally i dont care! game should do what i say!!!"

[dusky surge]

okay but your changes would make dilo immediately hot garbage lol

which i think is the most important

lore or realism be damned

he would not perform the same, he'd be destroyed by omnis and carnos with extreme ease and be even worse than pachy

you literally gave it worse speed than CERATO

combined with the same weight as pachy

it being 41 is still way too slow. 45 is way too slow. it should absolutely be faster than raptor otherwise it's dead

especially with that agility

dilo has ass agility, no bleed resist (pachy does and still gets easily bled by omnis), no way to stun/slow down attackers like pachy, and no damage resist like pachy's head

your proposed dilo is quite literally the worst animal in the game bar none

dryo has agility and, no, it isn't dead, it can survive quite aptly using said agility, as well as its small size and exceptionally high stamina

i play dryo a ton. is not an issue to survive those predators

im not a giant easy slow target with no agility like your dilo would be

you're just a bad dryo if you can't use its agility to survive

it can survive fine against players experienced or otherwise

because it has the tools to do so

hell, dilo can't even JUMP, tf is it gonna do with those stats

and so you confirm your dilo would be easy pickings for basically everything by that argument

because if it's that easy to kill a dryo, and your proposed dilo has less agility, less speed, less stam, less stealth, no jump and no dodge, it's screwed

[fast breach]

As a carnivore main, if something small runs into tall, heavy grass I am 100% losing it especially if it’s green (or brown in some cases) and as long as you don’t run in a perfectly straight line from the moment I lost you then you will likely get away lol

But still, some small dinos figure they can just run in a straight line and get away, I lose them for a couple seconds but then find them again as soon as the grass clears

It’s really not hard to escape bigger dinos as dryo, although I figure it may require a bit more effort for Omni and you won’t have time to stop and look lol

[final coral]

I forgot to edit the photo, anyways I was saying, Is this considered normal hit range for a Cera to hit a Deino underwater? If so can it be adjusted, it definitely killed me and was able to keep hitting me as I skimmed the bottom.

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that looks WAY too far for it to be hitting. There either was some desync bug that made you appear on the surface for them, or they are using some hack/exploit to expand their hitbox massively.

[final coral]

Back story is he was Wrecking me on the shore before i ran out of stamina, that was me trying to evade him, followed me without a care

i also noticed during the fight that i could not RMB grab attack behind me or to the sides, that seems broken to.

[leaden remnant]

he was using hitbox expanders, esp and information

theres no chance in hell he can bite you over there or even see you

let alone jump into the water

he knew damn well you were low and out of stamina

[final coral]

So in a normal circumstance, me evading like that would of kept me alive yeah?

[leaden remnant]

absolutely

[final coral]

See me no but he chased me from the Bank after tanking a bunch of my shots, even escaped my lunge grab (btw are ceras to heavy now to grab on land)????

[leaden remnant]

ceras are some of the easiest to grab

[final coral]

I had to run to the water cause I was not killing the dude on land

And he drained my stamina, I couldn’t float if I wanted to

[leaden remnant]

theres something in teh anti cheat that insta drops the prey if it detects that the deino is trying to put it inside of a surface (put him in a barrier, in teh ground, etc)

[cosmic pelican]

Eu4 had a duo of speed, esp and hitbox hacking ceras yesterday, would not be surprised if it was one of them lol

[leaden remnant]

however... it's broken

releases teh prey like 20% of the time

[leaden remnant]

yeah no hes cheatin so bad

[final coral]

Just previous to this I was up on the bank trying to fight him after he jumped me didn’t get that clip, I was pretty heated and surprised I thought to clip these ones.

[final coral]

Thank you I really thought I was going crazy and that was either a bug that needs to be fixed or cheating, I killed a fg deino there earlier in the day and he was actually spectating the cera that was killing me according to the replay fml

[hasty coyote]

May just be low frame rate, lag and/or camera angle, but he looks like he’s speed hacking too. Mainly because he’s lagging FORWARDS, which they shouldn’t do unless they are moving faster than normal speed. So this was likely a hacker.

Especially since you’re saying it followed you through the water, hit you from the surface, and could not be lunged (unless you are smaller than 2.6 tons, you can grab them on land). Probably one of the worst hacks I have ever seen.

[final coral]

I Was full grown deino, it sucks I’ve been happily living in that pond for like a weeks worth of logging in. God I wish I could get a replacement, dying to unfortunate things like hunger or the game crashing is one thing, as they say it’s in beta, but to loose all that progress to a cheater I feel like calls for some type of sympathy from development.

[leaden remnant]

he stops for a second and then begins biting nothing and damaging you

he just stopped to activate the hitbox extender 😭

[final coral]

If I was a raptor I wouldn’t even care cause that’s like an hour or two to regrow, who cares, but ffs

[hasty coyote]

Yeah it 100% sucks. But it was either die to something like this, another deino, starvation, or an update that wiped the Dino. Either way, you seem to have at least gotten your time’s worth outta growing it.

[final coral]

I’d take that, I’ve fought to keep that pond, I fought stegos and won, killed another deino that was living there, survived starvation and bugs

[hasty coyote]

Here’s the way I see it, if you survived for that long with that much chaos, it required a hacker to finally kill you, because nothing else could.

[final coral]

True I would’ve eventually died but I was on a good survival streak and kinda the whole reason I play and stream the game is for the immersive survival roll play, there was no honor in that death lol

[final coral]

Stego and hunger almost, I was even helping the ecosystem by feeding the smaller playables nearby

If I wasn’t more than 25% down on hunger I usually wasn’t grab hungry

You can see in the video the two piles of fish lol one for me one for others XD

[coarse blaze]

Did a little beipi hang out with you twice, two separate days? Odd question.

[final coral]

yes

[coarse blaze]

Na?

[final coral]

i had stripes

[coarse blaze]

I'm very sorry for your death, I was said beipi I believe then. I placed fish on the shore a few times trying to help cook and killed frogs.

A real crummy way to lose a deino

[final coral]

id rather loose one to a fight or starving to death vs helpless to a hacker

[final coral]

iusually dont kill bepi or ptera unless they get greedy wit food lol

[dusky surge]

no real point as a deino

and, i find that if you treat beipis well, they'll not tell others about your presence, making them more likely to drink from your water lol

[coarse blaze]

I was a little weary of you but when I just let you come up and you didn't kill me, I was very happy. It was nice seeing a friendly player, others have not been as kind.

[final coral]

i normally dont eat babies in general unless its dibble or juvie stego, mostly to let grow unless im starving

[coarse blaze]

Again, sorry about your deino. That really sucks, that area is such a pain getting to too.

Need more deinos like that out there, better luck to you friend. 🤝

[final coral]

@ me if tou wanna grow by a deino lol

[fierce marlin]

Make that giga is fast as rex

[spring sluice]

This game is cool and all but the players that need to mix pack are ruining the fun for me personally. I feel like this game would be so much better if discord was deleted. Personal opinion.

[leaden remnant]

but then where would we hear about the news and more upcoming things

it's not discord that causes ppl to mixpack

they can dm each other on steam if need be

[worthy steeple]

your pfp is literally my face after i read that

[fierce marlin]

Your too

[heady zealot]

Play unofficial, that’s what I do. I also hate mixpacking and it’s a reason I don’t play as much Path of Titans. As for discord, it’s nice to talk to people about something you enjoy however sometimes I do think Reddit and discord kill off games because the developers are trying to appease thousands of people who have a different vision of the game than they do.

[solar rover]

There is possible that Ptera can get buff stamina regen?

[leaden remnant]

well i wish but not happening anytime soon

[solar rover]

yeah because Ptera use a lot stam and regain stam very slow that mean they stam gone quickly but need to regain slowly while food and water drain very fast is tough to play Ptera right now

[calm gull]

Cera bile is just way to op right now I think my Omni throwing up after 1 bit is ridiculous

[tall bronze]

Omniraptor throwing up that quickly I'd say is fine since Cerato's bacteria is meant to be horrible for things smaller than it.

Diablos vomiting in ~3 bites however....

[frail bobcat]

<@&933486433342222376> free stuff, go get it!!!

[candid dome]

Yooo! Nice!

[plucky aspen]

Man... i missed it

[green heart]

Did we get all of them?

[fierce marlin]

Make giga fast as rex

[heady zealot]

@wanton edge before this would get implemented pouncing in general needs fixed, same with dismount and bucking.

[soft inlet]

#balance-feedback message @spring sluice lol

[vale brook]

lol ^

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message

@proper berry its an apex herbivore, why are you trying to hunt it as the small game hunter

[haughty grotto]

@weary dust the reason your suggestion doesnt work is because:

1. you dont need to look at something to buck it
2. if multiple raptors are pouncing you, it doesnt even matter anymore where you look, you're just gonna look in any direction and press E to buck at least one of them, cause they wont come at you all from the same side
3. raptors themselves are unaffected and this doesnt create any 'teamwork' for them, in fact it'll cause more confusion cause right now you gotta time your pounces and position yourselves right, versus with your suggestion a raptor currently pounced will keep switching and then the second raptor will have an even harder time pouncing at an empty slot

[slim dragon]

I don't think it can work either
Unless swapping positions is done by teleporting around, there is no way raptors can avoid being bucked off if the only thing the prey has to do is to look at them
Which, I admit, would be very annoying to do for the prey in a combat situation

[leaden remnant]

@ornate fiber you gotta hold right click to do damage btw

[ornate fiber]

bro

im on red rn because a friend just jumped on me

[leaden remnant]

he was tryna kill you then

[ornate fiber]

no man

bro was jumping like sometimes raptors do

when one is sitting and the other is just bored

but with herra bro left me on red

[shadow vortex]

Still an attempted murder :^)

[gloomy siren]

As already mentioned, if you jump from a tree and DO NOT hold right click you will not do damage. The one thing you have to be careful of is when you are jumping from tree to tree, the jumping herrera has to hold right mouse button in order to grab the tree, which in turn can damage a herrera that was already in that tree. Ask me how I know….🤣

[weary dust]

@slim dragon well to be fair thats not what I suggested, im saying the prey has to still use e to buck, but you actually have to focus on the raptor a little rather than holding e and "instantly bucking them off" or even worse the grace period which takes out any unpredictability and skill from mechanic

[slim dragon]

Yes I understood that

But the need to hold E does not make it any more complicated or harder

Only a console player would have the need to be looking at the raptor be an issue

[steep echo]

#balance-feedback message
isn't that... a good thing?

[ripe finch]

Carno is a small game hunter.

Shouldn't be going after Stegos.

[worthy steeple]

don’t tell carno what it should or should not be, do you understand?

don’t make my boy upset

[ripe finch]

He should know his place.

[tight flicker]

Mutations Congenital Hypoalgesia is that good -- Croc vs Croc

[leaden remnant]

nope

a croc is the biggest thing in this game so it's useless

[tight flicker]

can you Show me a Page where its says so or you gessing ?

[leaden remnant]

im not guessing it's a game stat

go in the game and see it yourself

croc is 8 tons the 2nd biggest thing is stego at 6 tons

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

powercreep yippee

[thorn mountain]

LOL

[dusky surge]

the "i dont play herbs" was really the icing on the cake LMAO

[worthy steeple]

most sane isle player

this one is fire

lets one shot fg rex

[shadow vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/aga-gif-22417045

That’s literally how I felt reading that feedback.

[dusky surge]

"The less hunger you have the faster you are."

Oh God

[cosmic pelican]

80km/h gallimimus with that mutation🔥

[dusky surge]

I was assuming they were all carni excluive lmao

[worthy steeple]

💀

[leaden remnant]

100km/h starving galli 🔥

[slim dragon]

Galli is NOT a herbivore

[leaden remnant]

• unkillable herrera cause mistakes can't be punished accordingly

we are absolutely ballin with this list

[cosmic pelican]

Also deino dragging stego into water from land

Hell yeah

[leaden remnant]

forgot to mention overpackimg raptors getting 5% stam per second back and troodons with infinite pounces

[dusky surge]

is it a carnivore?

no.

once again, i am correct. know your place you animal

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-crush-crusher-skull-halloween-gif-26163235

[cosmic pelican]

And the ptera 1 shotting omnis because it hasnt pecked for 2 hours

[leaden remnant]

herrera part 2 the electric boogaloo

[eager saddle]

While I would absolutely love that, I agree its too much and I dont think stego players deserve that 🤣

[leaden remnant]

sounds like a plan to me

well i am currently in the process of growing a stego so wait a bit before doing that

im finally not grabbable by deinos

[eager saddle]

🤣

[leaden remnant]

so far ive had only one fight

me vs 35 troodons as a 2.5 ton stego

[eager saddle]

Would look very cool, but you know, then you would have to keep double teaming in mind and then the balance shatters

Poor troodons

[leaden remnant]

counted 35 troodons

killed about 17 and then died

gotta love infinite swings 🔥

[eager saddle]

Absolute bs 😅

[leaden remnant]

wait no i forgot that immediately before the troodon fight i killed two dilos

now i get absolutely no action whatsoever only dibbles want to kill me

[worthy steeple]

🔥🔥🔥

i giggled.

[eager saddle]

Damn I wonder why.

[leaden remnant]

walked past 4 ceras they did not want anything to do with me

[eager saddle]

Imagine if deinos could lunge without stam

[leaden remnant]

absolutely broken

[eager saddle]

Or hold you while out of stamina

[leaden remnant]

stego is just absolutely broken

not even fun cause you get nothing out of it

[eager saddle]

Dont you dare suggest it tho, or you’ll get angry herb players after you

[leaden remnant]

not gonna be surprised if 8 raptors see me and walk past

p sure mostly everybody knows it is too broken

would be surprised if anyone actually supported that idea

[worthy steeple]

stego is okay imo, it’s how it should be

[leaden remnant]

ignore everything i said 30 seconds ago

[worthy steeple]

and stego is basically dead when it can’t use its charge attacks

[leaden remnant]

hol on you trolling or you fr

[worthy steeple]

i’m not trolling lol, stego is fine, it’s only strong while it has stam, out of stam stego is getting killed pretty easily

[cosmic pelican]

Bruh
Ive killed a fg stego once as 2 troodon (granted he was an idiot but still)

[leaden remnant]

brother 😭

out of stam put your head up a wall and infinite swing

how tf is that even normal

1.2k infinite damage attack

[worthy steeple]

how it’s not?

[dusky surge]

it can alt-bite without stam. why shouldn't stego

[leaden remnant]

because 1.2k damage tail attack

[eager saddle]

Definitely the same strength

[leaden remnant]

you take no damage on the tail

[worthy steeple]

lmao that’s how it should be lol

[leaden remnant]

brother no 😭

[worthy steeple]

THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE

[dusky surge]

being stuck with 50 damage pitiful bite while other animals get directional attacks with more damage seems a lil unfair

[leaden remnant]

inf alt attacks and broken as heck but infinite swings??? an absolute nightmare

[eager saddle]

Directional attacks that you cant use out of stam?

[leaden remnant]

seems pretty unfair that you do 1.2k damage with the tail where you take almost 0 damage whereas others don't do even close to that

alt attacks when outta stam are broken

but infinite swings??? hello stam management???

[eager saddle]

Not yet at least

[worthy steeple]

you take 2x headshot damage

[leaden remnant]

3x and it doesn't even matter

[worthy steeple]

and i believe stegos damage is a lot lower when its out of stam

[eager saddle]

Doesn’t every dino aside from pachy and dibble?

[dusky surge]

every single directional attack can be used while out of stam. thats the point

[leaden remnant]

it doesn't justify absolutely destroying something and putting it on the highest podium out of all creatures

not even raptors pinning down 1.1 ton dibbles were this broken

[eager saddle]

Well I guess we’ll have to check that

[leaden remnant]

alr let me pounce/pin and still do damage when outta stam

i also want infinite ultra powerful attacks or unfair

[cosmic pelican]

Its "only" 900dmg when out of stam

[leaden remnant]

also let me uhh pin 1 ton and lower

[eager saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-oh-no-anyway-gif-18887547

[worthy steeple]

thx

[leaden remnant]

completely unfair but since stegos get that treatment i must get it too

[worthy steeple]

forgot what was the exact damage

[dusky surge]

the options are

make stego useless while out of stam, unfairly so

let it fight back while out of stam and have people respect the fact that, yes, it does a lot of damage

[eager saddle]

Ye but potato has it written down in his head all the time. Full automatic book, even gets updates right @cosmic pelican ?

[cosmic pelican]

Imo alt attacks should just be disabled when out of stam, and carnivores should get far reduced bite dmg as well

[leaden remnant]

remove alt attack when outta stamina

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/luntry-gif-26563186

[cosmic pelican]

Literally me

[leaden remnant]

no stam management and insane damage on stego is totally fair

[slim dragon]

i'd do the opposite
Allow every attack when out of stam, but make them slower
And also make bites cost stam

[dusky surge]

the reason the alt-attack while out of stam was made was to make you not enter a point of complete objective helplessness where you just get tailridden to death

[eager saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/pat-good-job-patpat-gif-25554349

[leaden remnant]

make it do 20% damage

[worthy steeple]

reduced bite damage is fine, but no alt attacks is wild

[dusky surge]

then its useless and lets you just tailride people LMAO

[cosmic pelican]

But you have to mess up horribly, and multiple times to find yourself in a situation where youre completely out of stam

[leaden remnant]

only things that can get tail ridden is stego and dibble

[dusky surge]

and that's lame

[eager saddle]

Bruh so that would only affect carnivores?

[leaden remnant]

let us get stam back when 0% then

[dusky surge]

as stego? it's really easy to run out of stam lmao

[cosmic pelican]

If you messed up horribly, you should be punished for it

[dusky surge]

so you want it to be punishing while out of stam but not punishing while out of stam

[cosmic pelican]

Thats an easy fix, reduce attack costs, boom fixed

[worthy steeple]

not like that? lol

[leaden remnant]

no alt bites when outta stam is already quite punishing

[cosmic pelican]

15% stam usage for 1 attack is absurd

[dusky surge]

no stam regen while out of stam is already quite punishing

[leaden remnant]

no running no alt attacking but have a chance to redeem yourself

[leaden remnant]

not with inf swing/alt attack

[cosmic pelican]

Why? I cant even recall a situation when I was completely out of stam in any fight Ive had

[dusky surge]

not being able to sprint and use your most powerful attacks is pretty punishing

[cosmic pelican]

The last time I was was back in the NE hotspot days as carno after being body fractured by pachies

[eager saddle]

If I have 0 stam as troodon, I lose. If I am out of stamina as a stego, I can still camp a wall and defend myself. Both have negligible bite force.

[cosmic pelican]

And that was 100% on me

[worthy steeple]

basically what you want is to make stego absolutely useless when it’s out of stam, which means the only thing it would be able to do is just stand still and take hits? how’s that fair?

at least think before suggest things like that

[cosmic pelican]

Tbf thats kinda more of troodon having abysmal stamina efficiency similar to stego, but without the bulk to back it up

[eager saddle]

At least you can tank hits bro

[cosmic pelican]

I didnt mean it for stego, I meant for everything. I also said stegos attack costs should be reduced to compensate.

[worthy steeple]

doesn’t matter how many hits you can or cannot take if you can’t fight back.

[eager saddle]

Damn then manage stam better.

I agree with the cost reduction tho

[dusky surge]

cant wait for rex to spam its 1k damage bite with fractures while out of stam and people say its okay because its rex and bite attacks should be free

[worthy steeple]

xD

[cosmic pelican]

Reduced damage when out of stam for carnivores plz and thx

[eager saddle]

Ye, makes sense

[dusky surge]

so if im on 3% stam, all i need to do is not sprint and just spam LMB and my rex does full damage?

[eager saddle]

I’d be impressed if you managed to stay on that 3% infinitely in a hunt

[worthy steeple]

at least i’m glad devs will never add those changes you guys suggest

[eager saddle]

What’s with the holier than thou attitude😅

[eager saddle]

No u

[cosmic pelican]

You never know🤷‍♂️

[cosmic pelican]

It could be made similar to the wounded status I guess.
Thanks for bringing that up, didnt think of that.

[eager saddle]

I mean we have suggested the reverted eu4 to ai servers a few times

Tbf that server was painful to look at during peak times😅

[golden coral]

Why do you want to make things worse, wounded is already bad

And need I remind you all deino has 500 biteforce alt out of stam? At least let stego have that much as well

[golden coral]

One is tiny tier pack animal, other is close to apex. If you want to compare, look to deino.

[golden coral]

Since when? Did they change that recently?

[worthy steeple]

it’s 2x he’s making things up

[cosmic pelican]

Because it feels like training wheels honestly. You have to mess up horribly to find yourself in a situation where youre out of stamina and your attackers arent.

[cosmic pelican]

I said deino shouldnt be able to alt attack either, Im not talking specifically about stego

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah its 2x, always been

[golden coral]

Even when "outnumbered"?

[cosmic pelican]

If you feel like youre in danger of running out of stam you can very easily find a well defensible position on this map far before you actually run out.

Trees, rocks, cliffs, water etc are everywhere.

[golden coral]

Wasnt specifically to you, I just find it odd that the obvious solution: nerf jab damage by half or so, isnt brought up

[cosmic pelican]

🥔👍

[golden coral]

With the power swing, theres no need for the jab to have that high damage

[cosmic pelican]

I just find it silly when ban players absolutely spam the heck out of all their attacks without any regard to stamina management but then just back themselves into a corner and be completely fine.

Or deinos going miles onto land because they know that they can just spam alt+lmb to be fine against anything that isnt a stego

[worthy steeple]

didn’t know using terrain to get an advantage is a crime

[golden coral]

The issue I can see is when youre up against a pack and they can "outstam" you, plus being defenseless when out of stam is no fun, and with new stam system itd be a death sentence without alts for at least a few things

[worthy steeple]

basically, yeah, you just stand still and take hits, how’s that balanced lmao

[golden coral]

But I also think you need to take apexes into account, do you really expect a trike or rex to be defenseless when out of stam, even vs a full pack of omnis or troodons or ceras

[dusky surge]

overall this falls back to roster. when you don't have to care, you don't care.

don't nerf the animal until its weak enough that the MUCH smaller creatures can handle it. Flesh out the roster

[cosmic pelican]

Thats why using terrain to get an advantage is an excellent survival strategy. See a pack of ceratos coming ominously towards you as a stego? Look for a well defendable position and chances are youll be just fine, saying from experience.

[cosmic pelican]

Thats true yes, but there are other examples that dont involve apexes.
Like omni spamming its alt attack vs troodons after it used all its stamina pouncing to try and pin them, even though it messed up horribly it still remains just as big of a threat since its alt attack is probably the best in the game.

[worthy steeple]

omni is only 8 times troodons weight, that’s funny how you think making a playable absolutely useless without stam is a good balancing choice.

[cosmic pelican]

If you use up all of your stamina without any regard to managing it, you should be punished. I honestly never struggle with stamina management myself, even while playing stego which is notorious for having expensive attacks.

Also please do not speak to me in such a condesending way, I have not been condesending or have insulted you in any way.

[worthy steeple]

sorry, about that, i didn’t mean too x
no hard feelings 👹

[cosmic pelican]

🥔❤️

[worthy steeple]

🧀❤️

[leaden remnant]

if you are outta stam there's no reason to let you still do tremendous amounts of damage

no stam should mean death unless you are somehow able to keep going due to a lack of skill from the opponent's side

and that applies to everything, no stam means death for everything small but not for big things

if, because you get to use alt bites without stam, stego needs inf swings, let me kick and tail slam as a teno without stam, let me pounce and latch on without stam, let me lunge without stam, etc

[golden coral]

You can claw and alt bite, 500 damage (deino). So, easy solution: nerf stego jab damage to 650-750 or so. Reasonable damage for stego (can absolutely see this for trike and rex basic attacks/alts or similar), but no longer 1K+ damage. And lower still when out of stam at that.

[leaden remnant]

remove alt bites when outta stam

we r absolutely balling if it happens

i don't see why stego swing should get such a massive damage nerf

[dusky surge]

punish you for having a poor turn radius and reward cerato for being cerato

[golden coral]

No, no good, unless old stam system or so.

[dusky surge]

oh, and screw over tenonto, stego and pachy

because those guys dont deserve to fight back

[leaden remnant]

it was never an issue, why are you making it one?

[leaden remnant]

and carno and raptor and more

no stam means you're screwed

[dusky surge]

they can do more damage, they're honestly way better off

[slim dragon]

Thinking about it, carno probably wins against stego in an out-of-stam facetank

[dusky surge]

no stam carno vs no stam teno (no alt attacks)

i wonder who wins

[leaden remnant]

again, it was never an issue when it was like that

[dusky surge]

honestly? it does

[leaden remnant]

remove the thresholds and it works

[dusky surge]

back when the stam system was completely different and it regenned significantly faster? wow

[slim dragon]

(assuming stego can't use its tail when out of stam obv)

[leaden remnant]

maybe this one is absolute ass if it forces you to nuke balance to try to fit it in...?

[golden coral]

Because it fits alt better, can adjust jab for weaker but faster targets, and adjust swing for slower but stronger targets. And it makes sense, now that stego has the power swing, it does not need another power attack. It made sense when it was jab or bite, but thats no longer the case. And bite will always just be for utter desperation, or for fun or warning attack, or to mess with your opponent.

[dusky surge]

you're the one nuking it so that you can get your way tho

it literally doesn't cause an issue unless you hyperfixate on stego

[leaden remnant]

oh wow it's my fault now

sorry guys im nuking the balance cause i don't want stegos doing 1.2k damage without having to worry about stamina

[golden coral]

No, stego bite speed is good, for some reason... xD

[leaden remnant]

and i don't want deinos doing insane damage without worrying about stamina

im the bad guy here

[dusky surge]

deino and stego are different animals god forbid

[leaden remnant]

i don't want things doing insane damage when outta stam

[dusky surge]

my i be so bold to say

[leaden remnant]

i want real punishment if you don't care about stamina at all

[dusky surge]

idk, i like the idea of certain animals having unique out of stam options to diversify combat situations

[leaden remnant]

stick my head up a wall and swing like a maniac is not stam management

[dusky surge]

pachy, teno and stego come to mind as strong alt-bite optins

[leaden remnant]

that idea isn't bad at all

[dusky surge]

cerato gets charge bite and bacteria out of stam and no one is making a big noise over that

[leaden remnant]

i am

that's stupid

and so is doing 500 damage or more with an alt bite as a deino when outta stam

[dusky surge]

i think its fine

[leaden remnant]

if you can't sprint you can't move your body back like that

go back in the water and get your stamina back

[golden coral]

Nerf jab damage!

[leaden remnant]

but that's just not enough

that's not a real, crude punishment

[dusky surge]

isnt losing powerswing and the ability to sprint real and crude enough?

not to mention the insane bleed duration

[leaden remnant]

losing a 1.6k damage attack and still being able to do a 1.2k damage attack? not at all

specially since stego is defensive not offensive

it doesn't need to sprint in most of its encounters

[leaden remnant]

even with the damage reduction to 900

900 constant damage without any concern for stamina management is beyond any balancing logic

really theres just absolutely no logical reason to allow this to happen in a well made game

[fierce marlin]

Legacy balance(since i cant play evrima yet)

• giga
  -# Speed increased to same as rex
• acro
  -# Growth now caps at 0.9(change size and speed)
  -# Stamina increased to 40
  -# Status adjusted to be the same
• bary
  -# Weight & Health increased to 1850
• Spino
  -# Health & Weight reduced to 8471
• Anky
  -# Now is immune to Bleed
  -# Addition of 90% leg break
• Sucho
  -# Now is fast as rex
• Pachy
  -# Now takes the same time as utah to grow
• Dillo
  -# Now takes the same time as utah to grow
• Para
  -# Atack hit box increased by alot
  -# Health & Weight increased to 4000
• Alberto
  -# Speed reduced to same as allo

[hasty coyote]

I’m gonna warn ya, legacy aint being updated anymore.

[fierce marlin]

Ik

[hasty coyote]

@analog mirage that would just make leg fracture both worse at deterring a chase and better in a mixpack. Damage only matters IF you die. So if the damage is not enough to kill the target before they can run down the pachy, then it’s useless. If it’s able to kill the target before it kills the pachy, then it’s still insanely strong in a mixpack and for Pachies to beat things to death.

Imo the main issue is the fact that it prevents the target from fighting back at all since it disabled most abilities and alt attacks. It being useful in mixpacks also shouldn’t really be accounted for, since almost everything is op in a mixpack, that’s the issue with mixpacks

[hazy echo]

Coming back after a few patches, I've noticed footprints aren't as easily detectable. Was this on purpose? Like I just tested tracking an adult deer and even though I was right behind it as it was running away there are no discernable foot prints, even while I was using scent (or sniffing)....

[hasty coyote]

Could be an issue with ai, since they have been being worked on a good bit recently.

[keen plover]

Nah. Even 1800kg used to lose to a stego in a facetank with a 175n bite. Stegos biterate and hp difference allowed it to do that.

[keen plover]

You do less damage when out of stamina btw with alt attack. Unless there's been some bug.

[leaden remnant]

yes ik

[coarse blaze]

@olive wraith, my suggestion comes from a place of player experience and balance concerns; not from any sort of realism as the Isle doesn't claim to be based in said realism.

Point 1 & 2 Players choosing to kill one another for "sport" isn't the issue, cannibalism for an animal like omniraptor or troodon can be preformed in one, non-counterable attack and makes it incredibly easy to sustain megapacks. This issue isn't meant to prevent player on player aggression, it's meant to curb being able to sustain yourself in the easiest way possible.

Point 3 Players who are hunting shouldn't always be winning a hunt, picking and choosing is something to be considered rather than consistently having a fallback plan B of "We can eat a pack member". Players on the receiving end of the hunt wouldn't experience any change realistically, cannibalistic players tend to focus on those they're cannibalizing because it's easier.

Making the cannibalistic mutation unavailable to pack oriented playables would stop the majority of cannibalistic groups as it's no longer worth the stamina or bleed if you can't gain diet from them.

A territory system wouldn't aid in other players reliant on a group to preform a group oriented mechanic from seeking out more players; punishing them isn't a great solution.

For example, a pack of omniraptors wants to nest but doesn't have the food; kill a member or two and allow them to respawn via egg with Gen 2 now able to feed off of themselves isn't super balanced.

[olive wraith]

I didn't mention realism did I?

Also, a group of 1 thing can almost always kill a solo of that 1 thing effortlessly in the isle so people never really make the "is it worth the bleed" judgment.

[coarse blaze]

Adding that interspecies aggression at all is entirely irrelevant to the issue that was previously stated, hence why I made sure to include that realism shouldn't be involved at all in the topic.

Can yes, but again not being able to actually consume them for nutrients rather than adding them to the never ending pile of grapple bodies isn't ideal for most players.

[olive wraith]

I'm not sure what you mean by the paragraph "A territory system wouldn't aid...".

[olive wraith]

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by realism... I'm not advocating for realism here. I pointed out how points 1 and 2 are more of an issue with intraspecific aggression and not cannibalism. You would have those issues even if the pack didn't end up eating you (after killing you).

Also, my suggestion would help with Points 1 and 2 more I think... I was going to go on and suggest specifics for the feature... but reached word limit.

"This system could be expanded in several ways. For example:

Encode pack recruitment status into scent markers, allowing solo players to find packs open to recruiting just by scenting in their territory. This could be visually indicated by the scent trail or marker itself:

Green scent trails/markers would signify a "friendly/open" pack actively recruiting.

Red scent trails/markers would signify an "aggressive/closed" pack that does not welcome outsiders.

To prevent abuse, lock the scent status to "aggressive/red" if the pack initiates an attack on a solo member of their species while their status is set to "friendly/open." This would discourage false signals while rewarding cooperative play."

[coarse blaze]

You replied to my post which isn't related to interspecies aggression, why you would put those into your point relating to my post about cannibalism is baffling to me.

I do not care about players killing players, the issue lies in easy sustain.

A solution based on a mechanic that one, doesn't exist and two punished solo players playing a pack animal isn't a great solution. This makes it only harder for players to seek out other groups if they're constantly worried about "Oh I cannot go here, it's group A's territory; guess I'll starve."

My point is the majority of the issues you pointed out that would stem from just not allowing pack members to have the mutation do not fix the issue; and instead you suggested an entirely different mechanic rather than just simply not giving the 1-hit-1-kill sustain mutation to the playable meant to be played with others.

[olive wraith]

Will you chill out and stop being so defensive?

[coarse blaze]

I'm not being defensive at all, I'm just debating my end of the point. It's text, if you're taking it in an aggressive tone that's entirely on you.

You have to understand my confusion when you say

"Cannibalistic packs: Nothing would stop a pack of cannibals from continuing their hunt when one of their own dies."

After I'm advocating cannibalism not be an option, hence cannibalistic packs not being an actual thing as they are currently.

[olive wraith]

You come off as incredibly defensive... maybe it is just me.

Points 1 and 2 aren't going to be resolved by making certain species non-cannibalistic was my point.

[coarse blaze]

People aren't going to eat their own fallen packmates more often than not, you get spasms, become louder and overall end up a danger to others. This was apart of "point 1 & 2"

But being able to sustain off them rewards players for doing so

[olive wraith]

That's point 3 right?

[coarse blaze]

Ah it is, my bad.

Point 1 and 2 were about interspecies aggression, which again is irrelevant to the cannibalistic issue.

When something like allo finally appears in game and there's so many that megapacks can entirely feed off of other allos since the population will be massive it'll be a bigger issue.

[olive wraith]

If its irrelevant to the cannibalistic issue, why did you make them?

[coarse blaze]

What? Interspecies aggression was something you mentioned; I didn't in my post.

[olive wraith]

My posts points are directly correlated to your posts bullet points

[coarse blaze]

"Pin makes it incredibly unfair and unrewarding in a cannibalistic fight; giving the other player no way to counter." was less about interspecies aggression and more so how easy it is to kill one another and sustain specifically. When I said cannibalistic fight, I did specifically mean those with the cannibal mutation.

More so why hunt anything else that might kill you if you can just instantly pin someone for nutrients?

[olive wraith]

I feel like you didn't read my comment there... I said I couldn't get it all in but it does account for that.

[olive wraith]

But those players would likely pin you irregardless of nutrients or not. Hunting for sport is a thing.

[coarse blaze]

I did, it's why I'm even more confused; my suggestion has nothing to do with curbing KOSing players. It has to do with those players KOS'ing sustaining from said aggression; without the mutation they can't sustain. They can still kill one another yes, but there's less reward for doing so.

They can kill one another, I do not care; what I care about stems from being rewarded for actively seeking out and doing so because it's easier.

Why in God's name would I fight a teno if I can fake a 2 call and instantly pin and get free food?

They won't be sustaining off of one another without the mutation, that's my entire point.

[olive wraith]

So you have no issue with points 1 and 2... just when done in the case of cannibalism... its fine when done in the case of KOS?

[coarse blaze]

Yes, players will be players and you can't do anything to prevent that; I solely care about being rewarded for it.

[golden coral]

@coarse blaze Isnt the point of the mutation to offer an alternative to normal gameplay? While cannibalism is questionable due to selfsustaining critter, it does make sense to offer it as a difference to how you usually play.

[coarse blaze]

It does! That's why I'd rather it be species specific and not removed entirely; omniraptor relies on a pack to preform it's new mechanic and I feel it does punish players for seeking out other players to preform it.

That and pin just makes it entirely too easy to get food for something like omniraptor.

[golden coral]

Isnt that more of an issue with pin? Also, there is retaliation, right? So its not ideal to hunt another omni or troodon anyway?

[coarse blaze]

It is but that's likely not going to change anytime soon, mutations are still fairly new and up in the air, I feel that's more likely to change than omni's pin.

[olive wraith]

I don't think your post conveys that properly... hence the confusion.

You start off by saying cannibalism shouldn't be available to all. Then you go onto making points that aren't unique to cannibalism... hence changing cannibalism wouldn't affect said points. (Hence my confusion).

[coarse blaze]

But if pin weren't involved, I'd still have an issue with punishing players for actively looking to play in a pack, on a pack oriented animal with a pack related mechanic.

And gastro + cannibalism for prolonged fights is really unbalanced.

[hasty coyote]

Could do the idea from ages ago:
make those with canni mutation abnormally white, like full albino.

So now you can’t just 2 call, pin, and win because people can actually recognize you’re a threat, and it’s harder to hide. Making a canni mutation be a very specific playstyle change.

[coarse blaze]

"You start off by saying cannibalism shouldn't be available to all" to pack reliant animals, yes.

• Pin was related to it, because it makes it entirely too easy to preform for these animals with no counter-play, making it very easy for cannibalisms.

• Grapple was related because it requires multiple players, with how easy it is to kill one another on omni or troodon a lot are doing so; punishing players for seeking out others.

• Eating fallen members regardless if a hunt goes well or not was related because it's a win-win either way for cannibals; they eat either way and there's no punishment for failing the hunt.

• "Paired with gastronomic regeneration you can constantly prolong a fight and heal from those who die making it incredibly meta." was fairly direct.

I don't care about ceras and such being cannibals, they don't have a 1-button kill and don't have any mechanics they rely on having multiple members.

[hasty coyote]

Gastro should also be reworked to be fair.

[coarse blaze]

I was super excited when the devblog mentioned them looking different finally.

I think gastro should be removed if not reworked, it shouldn't be an outright heal

[hasty coyote]

Hopefully they go with it.

[coarse blaze]

Regen sure but flat out healing?

I don't feel like my post was that confusing considering the majority did agree with it.

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that’s basically what I was meaning. The idea of eating to gain health is good, the idea of it being instant flat/%hp is not ok.

[coarse blaze]

Especially for things like cera that can just continue to eat

Gastro is a whole other can of worms

[olive wraith]

Point 1 was pin... not directly related since omnis can 1 shot pin other Animals... not just other omnis.

Point 2 was trust, not grapple.

Point 3 just leads to bad gameplay and isn't entirely true... losing a packmember is a loss... so it's not true to say you didn't lose anything.

[hasty coyote]

Me chugging a baby Diablo I killed 10 minutes earlier as a cera to heal an entire Diablo combo and go right back into the fight (my blood hasn’t even clotted yet)

[coarse blaze]

Pin can always pin another omni if they're an adult, so it was related. Pin is too easy to preform, an issue that's more than cannibalism sure; but I meant it in related to cannibals using it. It's a very quick and easy way to quickly be rewarded for a cannibal.

It was directly related to grapple, the trust part was solely mocking those who would give that quoted remark as why you shouldn't have looked for players despite needing other players to perform grapple.

It was a balance issue, for the rest of the pack it's not unrewarding; you can also just nest and regain that pack member, feeding off the previous corpses.

[coarse blaze]

I did lose a Diablo a while ago a cera pack just eating each other with gastro, I remember pleading with Dondi about how frustrating it was.

Yeah, I would have died in the end but watching all that hard work vanish the moment they rush to a body is so disheartening.

Killing at least 2-3 would have made the death feel a little more worth while

[olive wraith]

I mistook point 2s main theme to be an issue with having to trust other players as a pack animal.. so my bad I guess.

As to your reply for Point 3, how is it not unrewarding? 1 of your fallen packmate won't feed your entire pack and they will need to spend alot of time regrowing (unless they've made everything give alot of food since last I played).

Also, you would still have Point 2 as an issue even if you made cannibalism null... in the case of KOS packs.

[coarse blaze]

As an adult, you retain food for quite a while; honestly with how the new diet system works 1-2 omni bodies can get a hatchling going with a pretty fast growth rate too.

Your point 2 or mine? I want to make sure I understand before replying.

[olive wraith]

Your point 2. (My point 2 was a response to your second bullet point).

[coarse blaze]

"Shouldn't have trusted them!" I'm all for being wary but with mechanics specifically designed with multiple members in mind, to be efficient you'll need to find others. Punishing players for attempting to pack up for pack oriented mechanics like grapple isn't ideal."

KOSing would still happen yes, but with the sustain being out of the question it's far more likely you'd be welcomed in with how current grapple works. Having a surplus of players to trade stamina for grapple is something most packs ideally want.

I may need to leave this conversation here though as it's getting quite long, I do appreciate the back and forth; if I came off defensive it was not intentional.

[olive wraith]

All good man, have a good one.

[coarse blaze]

Likewise, likewise.

[dusky surge]

@tall spear #balance-feedback message

Isn't a "plains creature which specialises in ambushing small prey with powerful damage for a near instant kill" effectively EXACTLY what allosaurus will do, except allo can also punch up? Again, old carno is just worse allo

Also, I much prefer the "thousand cuts endurance hunter" carno style over the "instanuke cera destroyer" playstyle that it was before, because old carno sucked at hunting smaller prey due to how quickly it sabotagued its own stamina bar, and it instead just bullied cerato to the point that it got so OP in the first place

[deft blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/the-carnotaurus-carno-carnotaurus-the-isle-jwe-gif-25181045

[leaden remnant]

@pale aspen whenever you die to two dibbles as a stego cause you couldn't do anything about it you'll change your mind

the children are irrelevant

there's no need to nuke balance cause of children

precisely yesterday as a dibble i soloed a stego who couldn't do anything but try to trade powerswings with my stuns, which wasn't enough, and killed another with a friend who did zero damage

and that's 5 hours of growth time gone

10 combining both

so yeah it ain't fair that i am faster and can stun it

[pale aspen]

2 diablo equates to 6hrs+, ontop of that stego has a much better/easier time growing then a diablo, juvie stego(1hr) two shots cerato meanwhile 1hr into diablo and it's barely reaching 100 bite force and that's not nuking balance? The fights are 50/50 sometimes(rarely) but if the stego knocks the diablo down it's ggs.

No clue how 2 stegos can lose to 2 diablos. Perhaps skill?

[leaden remnant]

nah it's dibble sided

you can cancel the stego attacks, you can trade damage and do more damage and youre faster

[pale aspen]

Ok? Stego has stuns and knockdowns plus 2k+ dmg and dibble has stuns

[leaden remnant]

yeah but dibble is faster

[pale aspen]

Maybe time your attacks better? I've had no issue trading with a dibble for a knockdown or just a parry

[leaden remnant]

dibble is faster and can stun + cancel the stego attacks/trade and do more damage

[leaden remnant]

that's you against bad dibbles

dibble being able to stun stego is unfair as hell and should be removed

[pale aspen]

That's you againt good dibbles ig

[leaden remnant]

i aint the stego im the dibble

i never get close to dibbles as a stego for obvious reasons

3+ great dibbles and nothing anybody in this universe can do

[pale aspen]

Well i haven't had much issues with diablos, fought off mixpacks with them and all

[dusky surge]

dibble genuinely has the advantage. it's a really bad situation lmao

[leaden remnant]

well im glad you are a good stego player that can fend off for yourself

[pale aspen]

when desync and lag is involved true

[dusky surge]

not even

[leaden remnant]

if the dibble is already in the punt animation theres nothing you can do as a stego

no timing will get you off the stun

you can trade and do barely any damage to the dibble because insane damage reduction but yeah

and when the stego runs out of stam it is joever

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/j9QRisglFg0X4YOOf?invite=cr-MSxQbmIsMjUxOTE1ODY2LA

how is this fair 😭

[pale aspen]

didnt even raise his tail, any other clips?

unaware player, stego 100% grown. yikes

[leaden remnant]

(he was out of stamina)

[pale aspen]

cuz he got baited so much, again unaware

[leaden remnant]

you crazy if you think you can conserve stam in this fight

[pale aspen]

not even trying to position himself just walking in the open on a path no head protection

[leaden remnant]

yeah cause he was outta stam he tried that already and i was still destroying him

[pale aspen]

maybe he shouldnt have gotten baited 6+ times

[leaden remnant]

he never got baited

i just mindlessly hit him and traded powerswing hits for punts

[pale aspen]

not once did he knock you down?

[leaden remnant]

go in without a care in this universe wait a few seconds go in again

[leaden remnant]

he always did

that's why i said we traded hits

he knocks me down i stun him and we both stand there

we get up at the same time and repeat

sounds like a completely fair fight to me

totally skill based and not just go in mindlessly

[pale aspen]

do u have more clips?

[leaden remnant]

are you able to get in a private server?

i unfortunately severely lack clips

i got another but it's the same scenario as before: https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/j9QggEAasNDO0ECHe?invite=cr-MSxCR2gsMjUxOTE1ODY2LA

[pale aspen]

you play on unofficial?

[leaden remnant]

always

[dusky surge]

god that skin is disgusting

[leaden remnant]

i could not agree more

[leaden remnant]

@fair jolt stego got the growth nerf of its life a few months ago

takes about 1.5 hours with 100% growth boost to get to 1 ton

about damage scaling, sure

[fair jolt]

Ahhh didn’t know about the weight

[leaden remnant]

yeah it was a shadow nerf

[fair jolt]

Oooh that makes sense yeah

[pale aspen]

It has a huge damage increase at such a young age to make up for it, about 40mins in can just about 1 shot omnis.

depending ofc on how you manage ur diets

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message

i would agree to change the carnos group limit to 4, but cera and dilo are alright, apexes doesn’t matter since mid tiers shouldn’t really mess with them anyway

4 ceras or carnos seems pretty balanced, but 6-8 is ridiculous

[gloomy siren]

Why have group limits at all? What purpose do they serve other than letting you know where the other people in your group are located?

[worthy steeple]

so people won’t overpack

[gloomy siren]

But the group limit isn’t stopping 15 dilos from being in SP

[crimson crater]

4 carnos and 5 dilos for example

[worthy steeple]

yeah sure, tho i would like dilos to be nerfed first, they’re insane right now

[worthy steeple]

tbf it does, i rarely see players overpacking, its annoying when you can’t see your group/don’t know who’s friendly or not

[gloomy siren]

I honestly don’t have an opinion on the group sizes because as far as I can tell all the size limit does is make it harder to use the in game communications, overpacking happens in discord channels in order to coordinate

[worthy steeple]

pack limits make overpacking a lot more difficult

and that’s a good thing

also there’s community servers with the rules and stuff, pack limits a lot more important on those servers

[gloomy siren]

I guess I just don’t see that it is stopping overpacking. I still see whole ass herds running around together. Maybe you server experience is different than mine

[worthy steeple]

pack limits on officials basically telling you how it’s intended to be, it’s up to you to overpack or not

[gloomy siren]

And I am glad that our community respects the devs vision for how the game should be play. /s LoL.

[worthy steeple]

xD

[gloomy siren]

I am honestly not trying to argue about it, I just wondered what everyone else’s thoughts were on what the group limit was actually, functionally doing in game.

[tardy peak]

i think rather than nurfing the stun, they should nurf dibble stats like health or stamina. i still dont see how a diablo can move so much being a 3 ton dino

[dusky surge]

or they could just nerf the stun lol

because why can it stun 6 ton creatures at all

[tardy peak]

why cant it not?

[dusky surge]

because it's a 3 ton dibble lmao why does it need to do that

also nerfing its health would just be making it incapable of stunning stego regardless

[tardy peak]

so how would you nurf the stun?

[tardy peak]

costs more to stun, making them unable to spam it

[dusky surge]

i mean

just reduce the stun threshholds

[tardy peak]

and they would have to think about preserving it ygm.

[dusky surge]

also wdym "costs more" there is no cost

[tardy peak]

what

bro like do you understand english

[dusky surge]

the stun attack isn't something that has a cost

"costs more to stun"

costs what? there's no cost to the attack lol

[tardy peak]

i mean running

like the when hes running to ram you dont have to nit pick

[dusky surge]

i mean, i guess, but it already has pretty poor stam

[tardy peak]

thats funny

[dusky surge]

the only thing effective about its stam is the fact that it does what cera does and just doesn't have attack costs

anyway the easiest way to deal with the stego stun spam is to simply not let it stun up to 200% of its own weight

150% would work fine, and mean stego doesn't need to worry about being stunlocked unless it's like, a sub or something

[tardy peak]

i think thats stupid

[dusky surge]

how

[vale brook]

dibble stunning acro is going to be fire

[dusky surge]

it literally solves the issue in the least confusing way possible

it just fixes the problem and done

[tardy peak]

so with that logic pachys cant stun dilos

cose dilo is 2x its weight

[dusky surge]

what?

no, stuns are per-creature.

[stark knoll]

Dilo isn't 2x the size of pachy and afaik only diablo can stun double its weight

[dusky surge]

a carno can't stun 200% its own weight, but a dibble can

a tenonto can't stun 200% its own weight either

[tardy peak]

because carnos dont have some shield on their head

[stark knoll]

I think diablo's attacks are the only ones in the game with CC thresholds that high

[tardy peak]

gotta think about dino aspect too

[stark knoll]

what

[dusky surge]

yep

[dusky surge]

but we're not talking about how the creatures look, we're talking about how they play, and when they can stunlock an entire creature and waste their 5 hours, I think that's an issue worth addressing

[tardy peak]

we are also talking about realism to the dinos no?

[dusky surge]

no

we've never been talking about the realism

it's literally just balance

[tardy peak]

yes but removing sometihng that stands out from a creature just makes the dino boring and unplayable

[dusky surge]

it can still stun???

[tardy peak]

if you want to nerf the dino for "balance" then nerf its stats

[stark knoll]

like yea diablos got the big shield face sure, but being able to stun twice your own weight when youre already 3000kg is a bit much imo

[dusky surge]

its stun threshhold is literally part of its stats

so yes, nerf its stats, specifically its stun threshhold

[tardy peak]

ants can pick up things 10x their weight so why cant diablo stun something 2x their weight?

[dusky surge]

the ONLY matchup this impacts atm is vs stego, which is a matchup that literally doesn't need to be that easy

[dusky surge]

compare diablos to ants, find some kind of genetic similarity, and come back to me

[tardy peak]

your focusing on the wrong things buddy

[dusky surge]

right

the stun threshholds

reduce them

[tardy peak]

nah just dont be ass

you only lose to skill thats it, wrong move by diablo and it dies to stego, wrong move by stego and it dies to diablo its just skill issue

if you remove stun threshold then diablo would never be able to fight stego since its garantueed hit from stego

[dusky surge]

it would be able to. it still has its shield ability.

also it can just... leave stego alone? lmao

[tardy peak]

not everyone in the game likes to stare at grass for hours

[dusky surge]

hell, earlier you advocated for reducing diablo's health, which would ALSO make it incapable of stunning stego so I really don't see the problem you have here

[tardy peak]

i think nerfing stun is stupid

nerfing stats however

[dusky surge]

nerfing health means it can't stun stego

[stark knoll]

if you nerf its hp youre also nerfing its stun

and its blood, and its own cc resistance

[tardy peak]

i did push more on nerfing stam

[dusky surge]

which i dont understand because it really isn't that endurant LMAO

hell, nerfing its stam hardly does anything to stop it from destroying stego lol

[tardy peak]

makes it less of an aggressive dino

i see too many diablos chasing down anything it sees

cose they dont care about their stamina since its not that taxing

[dusky surge]

it'd still do that lol

stego has ass stam and it does that

[tardy peak]

never seen stegos do that

[dusky surge]

very surprising lmao

[tardy peak]

every stego ive seen have just been chilling

diablos acting like they are carnivors tho

i dont think ive ever seen a diablo not chase me down after looking at me

[dusky surge]

the amount of people i see complain about "aggro stegos" is crazy. You're one of the rare few who apparently has never seen one

[tardy peak]

i dont see how people can complain about it anyways, just run away 😭

they will stop chasing after 5 seconds

unless the stegos are crazy

[dusky surge]

i mean

same applies to dibble LMAO

[tardy peak]

nah dibble will chase you for time

[hasty coyote]

Pachy’s knockdown ranges are pretty close, it just lacks the stun thresholds now. Pachy used to be able to stun 4x its weight, but iirc the knockdown is still 2x or 1.5x its weight. It just ain’t as noticeable since pachy is small and honestly needs them.

[slim dragon]

https://youtu.be/phXjBf3X7Eo

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

lmao i love this guy so much

[golden coral]

@spring sluice You dont think not having feedback might 1, make people a bit unhappy with the whole devs not listening to them, and 2, possibly result in even worse balance and mechanics at times than what we currently have, since no telling what the devs may decide on?

[slim dragon]

A piece of feedback to say feedback is bad and should be taken away... How ironic

[dusky surge]

this is the same person who blocked me and called me mental because apparently losing two adult ceratos to a single dilo might be a skill issue

[tawny panther]

pteras need more stamina!!!!!

[eager saddle]

“Waaa only I know what is good for the game and all these other people are brainless”

[merry wolf]

absolutely

[leaden remnant]

dibble stam is horrid already

it's got half the runtime of a raptor

[worthy steeple]

omg i remember the guy xDDD

[thorn mountain]

lol i have killed 3 dilos as a sub cera so MAYBE its a skill issue

[leaden remnant]

those 3 dilos mustve had a horrendous skill issue as well

yesterday i killed 5 dilos as a carno by myself but the only thing they did was run in a straight line and not dodge my knockdown rams 😭

one of them realized he just needs to facetank and run away to win but it did not go well for him

[keen plover]

<@&933486433342222376>

[golden coral]

@fleet bear What will then deal with that much stronger carnivore?

[leaden remnant]

@fleet bear it's cause stegos are unbelievably overpowered rn

[dusky surge]

i mean

no not really lol

[leaden remnant]

so the solution is make stego actually balanced (remove infinite swings) and then it'll be killable again

instead of creating an absolute monster of a carnivore that destroys everything that moves

[dusky surge]

dont bring back the cooldown please god

also infinite isn't a fair word when we both know it burns stam like nothing

[golden coral]

No, just nerf jab damage, all thats needed on that account. Then have it need to reraise the tail between swings and thats fixed too.

[dusky surge]

ehh

[leaden remnant]

it is infinite

i can swing for hours straight

i can swing till i die in real life

that's the definition of infinite

also 5% isnt that much of a stam burn

[dusky surge]

im talking about powerswing

[leaden remnant]

we talking about swings not powerswing

infinite swings not infinite powerswings (which isnt the case)

[dusky surge]

removing that makes it helpless

[golden coral]

Its just a matter of if things should have a viable attack out of stam or not

[leaden remnant]

with good stam management its not helpless, with the old version (run outta stam and die) good stegos were still kicking ass

and if it's such a huge issue, remove the thresholds

get stamina back at all times and we ball

[golden coral]

As long as carnis do, herbis should too, unless carnis loses stam way faster than herbis or perhaps herbis could regen stam faster/have better tresholds

[leaden remnant]

thresholds ruin it tbf they should be gone

this is not a documentary theres no reason to force ppl to walk around the map instead of being efficient

[fleet bear]

allo

[leaden remnant]

unless dondi wants to go on spectator and see a herd of herbis migrate while walking like a documentary

[fleet bear]

like 2 allo can beat 4 cera

[dusky surge]

i dont think you understood the question

[cosmic pelican]

Herbies, on average, already heal their vitals way way faster than carnivores.
For example troodon has an around 160 second stamina regen time, whereas beipis stamina regen barely takes over a minute. Same for healing.

[golden coral]

So what will deal with allo then?

[golden coral]

I think he might, like dibble intro vid and all

[leaden remnant]

teno heals broken legs and back to full hp in 3 minutes

[fleet bear]

You will be able to hunt dibble

[golden coral]

Not that players really behave like that but

[leaden remnant]

also the pounce to pin introduction 😭

[fleet bear]

and stego

[golden coral]

Beipi omni xD

[leaden remnant]

shows 4 raptors pinning a dibble and 1 3 calling an ENTIRE herd who does nothing

[cosmic pelican]

Thats a bit of an exaggeration lol
But yeah herbies heal very fast

[leaden remnant]

the herd would DEMOLISH the raptors if the people inside were sentient

[leaden remnant]

no it's 3 minutes

not exaggerating anything

broke my leg intentionally and counted how long it took me, it took me 3 minutes

[golden coral]

But this is just the stamina thats the issue, carnis should maybe regen health faster instead

[leaden remnant]

things should be a bit faster in this game considering a few factors

should heal faster get stam back faster and etc cause hunger takes no time to go poof

and if you make hunger decay really slowly you cant get nutrients, and if you make both decay too slowly then you afk grow wtih 250% growth boost 🤷‍♂️

[golden coral]

"realism" xD

[cosmic pelican]

Not even dryo heals to full from red hp in 3 minutes what

Or you only mean the fracture?

[leaden remnant]

everything

[leaden remnant]

you heal fall damage way faster than damage dealt by another player

[cosmic pelican]

Ik, cuz no locked hp

[leaden remnant]

thats why you take like 5 minutes to go from red to orange and no time to go from blue to full hp