balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

given that other creatures can

and pachy is supposed to be a true menace to smalls

[leaden remnant]

it can

[heady zealot]

So the general consensus is that Troodon is basically a worse Omni?

[cosmic pelican]

Nah

Tell me when omni can solo a dilo without getting hit once

[heady zealot]

Who’s doing that? But it seems like omnis bleed is just better than troodon’s venom. The only advantage I see to troodon is it’s better nightvision and being very nimble

But still it’s slower than raptor

[cosmic pelican]

😁

[dusky surge]

it also has better stam, better trot speed, better agility, better swim-speed, INSANE damage, a miniscule hitbox, a superjump tech that omni wishes it has, a much faster and better ranged pounce, etc

[cosmic pelican]

I have lots more clips proving troodon is just superior

Especially with current bucking

Its just the better pouncer imo

Just because it can ignore the horrible rng

Also making people fall off cliffs with the new fog its venom has is mad funny LOL

[heady zealot]

Super jump?

[heady zealot]

Ok I admit that was pretty good, but i think that is a lot of skill diff tbh

[cosmic pelican]

Theres nothing else the poor guy couldve done aside from trying to exhaust me, which just ends in a tie. Dilos normal bite hitbox is ridicilously tiny, it like trying to swat a fly with a chopstick lol

But I see what you mean

I have some clips vs omnis and carnos too ^^

[cosmic pelican]

Pounce straight up basically. Its more than twice the normal jump height

And troodon already has a pretty good jump

[heady zealot]

Carnos

Also I just hit right click while standing still and jump super high? Is it enough to dodge a raptor?

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah

[heady zealot]

What’s the strategy for carnos, because they have a giant ass hitbox/ killbox

[cosmic pelican]

Unless theyre dumb theres not much you can do aside than baiting them off a cliff

Which works pretty well since theyre very speedy and the fog makes it difficult to see, but its terrain dependant

[heady zealot]

So do you just go in and left click them? Or if I’m simply trying to get away from them do I just hide in a bush?

[cosmic pelican]

Here ya go, 2 adult carnos dying to a single troodon

[cosmic pelican]

Crouch in grass and literally nothing can see you if you have a green skin lol

If you have enough skill troodon is actually terrifying

[heady zealot]

Second one wasn’t the brightest lmao

[cosmic pelican]

Running to his groupmates from a single troodon as the small game hunter

[heady zealot]

I’m just curious because I mainly do solo and with Raptor I can find someone very quickly and survive fairly easy. On Hera it’s hit and miss (carno running at me with blitzing speed and I’m not next to a tree) and with Troodon I can never find another Troodon

[cosmic pelican]

Just because you dont have a pack doesnt mean youre any less deadly

Troodon is just very underrated

[heady zealot]

Ok, thanks for your input. I’m still new to the game and was trying to figure out if I should “main” Troodon or Hera for the land (I already play Deino) because Cera and Carno don’t interest me and Dilo seems weird.

[cosmic pelican]

The superior pouncer

[cosmic pelican]

If youre gonna try troodon I recommend getting on a free admin or deathmatch server before you try survival

Troodon is probably the least forgiving playable, 1 mistake can easily cost you

[heady zealot]

I have actually not died yet as troodon (or Omni) I’ve been scavenging and playing extremely cautiously stalking around in bushes and using night vision to run past people

But yeah I haven’t actually killed anyone either, just scavenged food

With Hera I think I get complacent and end up dying because it’s not a very good Dino unless you are diving from a tree

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah herrera is very vulnerable on the ground, but its a tradeoff for the insane 700 damage its jump does

[heady zealot]

Yup, I’m really torn between Herrera and Troodon

[cosmic pelican]

Both are good honestly, but if youre already playing deino I feel like youll enjoy herrera more since both are ambush predators

But if you decide on troodon I would be glad to teach you a few tricks ^^

[heady zealot]

Yeah I enjoy the ambush playstyle but Deino is like 20x better since you can’t get one shot, and people will always need to drink vs with Hera they either need to be stuffing their face under a tree or be afk lol

I kinda see both Hera and Troodon as ambush predators, but Troodon is a lot more hit and run

[hasty coyote]

you can also camp a water source that has trees and rarely has deinos, or kill an ai and use it as bait.

[heady zealot]

I joined a server with fast growth and killed a small raptor to do that, but my pounce lagged and I almost died lol.

Was gonna kill a juvie carno

[hasty coyote]

troodon is the opposite of an ambush hunter, it has to land multiple consecutive pounces to start dealing real damage and you make calls the whole time.

[hasty coyote]

oof, yep bugs always love to ruin fun

[heady zealot]

Right, I suppose I kind of approach everything as an ambush meaning I hide either in a bush or tall grass until I think it’s the best time to attack.

[hasty coyote]

Waiting for the right moment to ambush something is definitely very useful strategy for pretty much every dino and is just good game sense. I'm just saying troodon isnt really an ambush hunter since it can't capitalize off an ambush nearly as much as something like a herrera or deino can.

[heady zealot]

Ok yeah you’re right, also Troodons prey is always bigger than they are anyway so it will take several bites/ pounces, but I always try to make the first one really count and plan which bush I’ll jump to next

While Hera I think the biggest thing you’ll try to hunt is an Omni and I think going after a full grown Omni is extremely risky even if you are high up

[hasty coyote]

honestly herrera packs way more of a punch than you think. A herrera can 1-shot an omni from up high, and with the reduced fall damage mutation, you can even kill dilos with a single hit because of the bleed. Though if you miss on either of and have nowhere to run, then its definitely risky, but generally you have enough time to scamble back up whatever you jumped off at worst.
I have even seen packs of herreras kill diablos. Granted, the diablos were kinda dumb and just sat there under the trees instead of moving to the open.

[heady zealot]

Yeah it just seems kind of inconsistent lol, that’s my biggest gripe with the Dino. It’s extremely fun though

I’ve seen some crazy cool clips of Hererra killing stuff

[neon hound]

I think Herrera is pretty cool and balanced it barely survives on teh ground and it being able to one shot things make sense if it didn't it would just be beaten to death after a pounce

[hasty coyote]

tis the nature of playing a dino that kills things by falling from 50 feet in the air lol.

[heady zealot]

Yeah I think it’s very fair as well

[heady zealot]

True lol

So far I think every carnivore has its niche, even Dilo, but I’m still pretty new

[neon hound]

Yeah that's the great thing about evrima compared to legacy, legacy just had everything be the same with only stats not mechanics being different

Herrera was just the fastest dinos in the game in legacy which was alright but nowhere near as cool or good as the climbing

[hasty coyote]

dilo is prob the only carnivore I would consider too weak atm, but its more because hallucinations are so inconsistent. If they are consistent, dilo is a monster.

[heady zealot]

I think once the troodon venom gets changed to be different from the dilo, and fix the dilo venom both dinos will be in a better spot

[leaden remnant]

@hasty coyote letting ppl get out of the pin is just a bad idea tbh

you already got pinned which means you committed a mistake, giving you a get out of jail free card is nonsense

[distant torrent]

@hasty coyote honestly I like it

[leaden remnant]

maybe fighting back... but escaping? nah

[hasty coyote]

you landed a single ability, why should that be a death sentence just because its 2kg lighter?

[leaden remnant]

we aint sayin weight here tho

and it's because you committed a mistake

[hasty coyote]

I'm referring to pin specifically, so only anything under 450kg is impacted by this.

[leaden remnant]

if a herrera jumps you or a carno rams you and 1 taps you it's cause you committed a mistake and that's fine

[leaden remnant]

yesyes i know but im not saying like 0.1kgs less is fair

[distant torrent]

if you take that same logic, a lot of things should be able to one tap omni instantly because omnis have the ability to choose a lot of fights. cera should one tap it, dibble, teno, etc.

if you got hit, you made a mistake

[leaden remnant]

these things do 1 tap it

so you're not wrong

[neon hound]

Yeah but that's because carnos and Herrera already do that damage when raptors don't they just get to hold down a Galli even though it's only 25 kg lighter has super powerful legs that it could reasonably stand up

[leaden remnant]

a ton of things in the game 1 tap raptors

tons of things ni the game 1 tap each other

[neon hound]

Also it's not an egregious mistake the mistake was the same as getting hit by a raptor which ain't that hard considering they are fast

[distant torrent]

not in one specific hit unless to the head. I mean even a hit to the base of the tail like how pounce pins on that

[leaden remnant]

it was an egregious mistake to not be aware of your surroundings

[leaden remnant]

uh they do 1 tap

[neon hound]

I mean they can pin you in a fight you know

[leaden remnant]

thye knock you down and arealmost guaranteed to follow up with an attack to finish you

[leaden remnant]

why you fighting a raptor as a smaller thing 🤔

[distant torrent]

name one singular attack from them that does greater than 450 damage

[neon hound]

Galli

[leaden remnant]

raptor pin isnt a 1 tap either btw

[hasty coyote]

Carno only 1 taps things like 1/4th of its weight. Omni would do the same with this proposed change. Herrera is very different because it has so many other conditions required to land its drop and the fact it relies entirely on its drop. Omni just needs to be close to land pin. And wouldnt you know it, omni is already faster than anything it can pin other than sub pachies and sub omnis. So it can easily get in range to pin.

[neon hound]

No it is

[distant torrent]

it is. one button hold

[leaden remnant]

how come i get away like 80% of the time

[leaden remnant]

then why dont we complain about everything else why only raptor

why dont we complain about herrera being press space bar

[neon hound]

What magic are you using mate it's not escapable

[leaden remnant]

running away, burning its stamina

[neon hound]

The Herrera takes careful planning

[distant torrent]

because omni has a lot more freedom. deino is also a problem, but I’d rather omni be focused on first then we move to the less problematic playables one by one

[leaden remnant]

if we're gonna call raptor pin "just a rmb hold" then i can call herrera just a space bar hold

[leaden remnant]

none of these are actually problematic tho

[neon hound]

From what I've seen it doesn't use that much stam and even if the receiver has full stam it does nothing which is dumb

[leaden remnant]

pin got a p seriuos stam nerf

[distant torrent]

herrera is an ambush predator and can’t immediately retry for a kill if it misses

[neon hound]

Good

[leaden remnant]

it can

[distant torrent]

the prey can simply run away

[neon hound]

Also if it misses it can take damage or be beaten to death before it gets to a tree

[leaden remnant]

same with raptors but it's unlikely for both to take any damage

im merely saying that why only complain about raptors

if we dont want rmb or lmb 1 tapping, we gotta complain about stego as well ig?

[neon hound]

The Herrera has a period where it can't use it's ability and is really vunerable raptor doesn't have that

[leaden remnant]

herreras aint vulnerable for most of the time

[neon hound]

That one is easily dodgable

[hasty coyote]

we do, its called deino. But at least deino can only kill things half its weight and is restricted to water, omni can kill things pretty much equal in weight and only needs to land a single attack. Still, not actively complaining about 1 dino's grievances does not mean they don't exist. Hence why I made the post while no one else ever talks about pin.

[distant torrent]

stego is big and slow. omni can outrun what one taps it. most things can outrun stego so they can easily avoid it

[leaden remnant]

and so is a raptor 😭

[neon hound]

When they aren't in the tree

[leaden remnant]

nobody complains about deino everyoen complains about raptor

[steep echo]

Herra's attack needs buildup time, stego is friggin humongous

[distant torrent]

omni is faster and more agile than most things it can pin (not counting galli because that’s faster)

[steep echo]

raptor is instant and unpunished if missed

[leaden remnant]

im merely saying that if we gonna complain about 1 tapping, let's complain about everytihng

[neon hound]

The swing actually has a tell of the tail moving up and it quite slow and also that's completely different because stego already does that damage where raptor just gets a free insta win pin to death move

[steep echo]

but I think herrerasaurus should be slower on ground

[leaden remnant]

let's complain bout deino, herrera, stego, teno 1 tapping smaller things, cera 1 tapping smaller things, etcetera

[distant torrent]

yes but omni is currently the worst about it right now

[leaden remnant]

if you have any skill you would know that nuh uh

very easy to counter or dodge em

[neon hound]

We ain't complaining about one tapping we complaining about insta kill command grabs

[leaden remnant]

sure but we got that on other things, why only raptor

[distant torrent]

maybe a bad omni, but definitely not a good omni lol

[leaden remnant]

even the best

[neon hound]

WE ALSO COMPLAINED ABOUT DEINO AND DEINO IS LESS OF A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT NEEDS WATER

[distant torrent]

I don’t really agree with that. I’ve never seen a good omni struggle with pin

[leaden remnant]

last time i saw a complaint about deino grab was a ton of time ago

[leaden remnant]

yeah cause everyone runs in a straight line and loses their mind instead of using their brain to dodge and counter it

[steep echo]

Before it was press-space-to-release I did get let off a few times because people never hold down RMB

[distant torrent]

even if they’re zig zagging. you’re not dodging a good omni

[neon hound]

Also the hitbox of the pounce is quite odd

[leaden remnant]

it aint only zig zagging that's gonna save you tho

[neon hound]

Might be ping or lag but still pretty big

[leaden remnant]

but even then yeah it will get you to dodge a good raptor

[leaden remnant]

i agree, absolute bs

i completely agree with that the hitbox is absolute and utter bs

[steep echo]

I got pinned after jumping over an omni, I cleared their head by like half a metre with dryo

They right clicked at the apex of my jump

[leaden remnant]

absolute frickin bs

[hasty coyote]

First, I'm apparently nobody because I have been complaining about it for years.

Second, why do other people's complaints matter about mine? Even if they do, why are they related to this post in particular because I have not seen a single person complain about pin, only grapple and pounce in general.

Third: Deino has had practically no changes so most people have gotten used to it being horrible or just gave up complaining. Omni on the other hand has been getting a lot of changes recently and as such people are very aware of it. So people make more posts about it.

[leaden remnant]

should touch you to pin you

[steep echo]

should be grounded and in front of your centre of mass

[leaden remnant]

other posts aren't necessarily related to this one, it was just me putting as an example that many ppl complain bout normal pin

[neon hound]

But I'm saying that once we get Rex who will have pinning we better get bucking for pinning

[leaden remnant]

and hear me out i dont see that many issues with pinning or grabbing things

they are very easy to dodge, like seriously

[neon hound]

It's an easy solution there done everyone has the same ability to get away from a grapple

[leaden remnant]

i needa make a tutorial to show how stupidly easy it is to dodge them

[steep echo]

Rex with pinning looks absolutely unfair for a 38km/h dino awesome

[leaden remnant]

the video was a bit concerning tho

cause the rex is gonna bluetooth pin the dibble

[neon hound]

I know how to dodge them it's kinda hard to do that consistently when there are like 3 of them pounce at you constantly

[leaden remnant]

aint even touching it but it's still down there

[hasty coyote]

very easy to dodge as what? troodon and dryo? You also need to think about the future smalls who are going to be both slower and less agile than omni, but still just get invalidated because pin.

[distant torrent]

honestly I’d be surprised if dibble is even a snack for rex if it’s going to be anything like a deino with hunger but with more weight lol

[leaden remnant]

i mean i understand 3

[steep echo]

okay you did remind me of an awesome dryo life I had a while back bobbing and weaving 6 FG raptors

[leaden remnant]

small pachy, small teno, small cera, troodon, dryo, herrera, etc

[neon hound]

Also kinda hard to dodge a pounce from a raptor when your galli which is larger and has much more surface area to be pounced

[steep echo]

True

[leaden remnant]

you quick and agile tho

[hasty coyote]

those must be some garbage omnis if they cant pin a cera.

[leaden remnant]

• amazing trot, just leave it to the dust

[steep echo]

Quick yes, agile eeeeh

[neon hound]

Not very agile just fast

[neon hound]

Sir they can run two

[leaden remnant]

that must be a cera using his brain to not get pinned*

[steep echo]

I also think pinning is busted because it invalidates the lower part of the roster that ISNT fast

Im not sure how Minmi, Proto and Homa will avoid getting pinned

[leaden remnant]

oh yea im jsut saying try to get away without wasting much stamina, should be fairly easy to do

[leaden remnant]

doesnt everything else invalidate the roster as well

[steep echo]

besides burrowing, because otherwise their entire lives will be spent underground if an omni enters the area

[neon hound]

Galli ain't agile, it takes about 3 seconds to start it's max running distance and it restarts that if it turns to much

[leaden remnant]

fast or slow

[neon hound]

He is a straight line runner

[leaden remnant]

well tbh youre right, didnt take acceleration into account, good turning speed tho

[steep echo]

Well so far everything in the game can reliably run away from their pursuer

Well, I should put that in quotations

[leaden remnant]

including things boutta get pinned

[distant torrent]

good luck with that if you’re in a part of the map with rocks every 5 feet to get stuck on lol

[neon hound]

It's alright but pretty sure raptor has better turn if I'm right

[leaden remnant]

it seriously ain't busted, it's really easy to counter

[steep echo]

More or less

[leaden remnant]

im p sure youre correct

[steep echo]

I still think the hitbox needs work

[leaden remnant]

i absolutely agree with you

either you are on it or no pinning, it doenst make sense that you can snipe him

[neon hound]

Yep usually what gets me caught when escaping from something as Galli a piece of rock I should be able to step over blocking my path

A Galli can absolutley win in a fight against an omni without pin even with it's lower health and less damage

[steep echo]

I'd describe it less as a snipe and more as carpet bombing

Screw random rocks

[leaden remnant]

might as well

hitboxes in this game are dumb

[neon hound]

Like hmm this creature has an instant win button but loses if it didn't have it

[hasty coyote]

to be fair, homalo dies in a single bite, and proto would likely still just insta die with my change.
The main dinos on the roster who need this are austro, rugops, mono, minmi, gali, maybe herrera, and anything else thats growing

[leaden remnant]

it's an ability tho, logically happens

[distant torrent]

honestly with how rock-infested the jungles are, I’d bet the omni could easy get away lol

[leaden remnant]

most other things would suffer the same fate

[steep echo]

Also isnt austro gonna get pinning?

[hasty coyote]

heres the thing, it doesnt lose without the instant win button, it just wins MORE with it

[hasty coyote]

yep

[steep echo]

pretty infested but I think theyre easier to see coming than the ones in highlands

[steep echo]

will austro be able to outrun or outturn omni?

[hasty coyote]

we don't know. I can only assume it swims faster

[leaden remnant]

either that or have it easy to avoid it

[neon hound]

That seems alright, especially when it's not something that's normal it's a move that takes away enemy control and doesn't have consistent damage or makes sense it's just a grab that holds the enemy down and oh you can't escape or fight back so your full health max stam fg galli is gone to a sub raptor

[leaden remnant]

all small things currently have or are getting some way to easily avoid being pinned

burrowing, climbing, size speed and agility, etcetera

[steep echo]

I ask because the devs have put our three heros, Dryo/Troodon/Herra, at 45km/h each, in that order of ranked turn radius

[neon hound]

Yes Galli ain't small and being a fast boi ain't that much help when a raptor can keep up with you if it's smart

[steep echo]

And omniraptor is just about as agile as herrera

[leaden remnant]

not to mention that it is so damn easy to avoid a pin that itjust doesn't make much sense to complain about it

[neon hound]

Galli shouldn't be pinned

[steep echo]

So if austro is tuned to escape omni, how will those three cope? Especially troodon who has no extra escape options?

[leaden remnant]

it should but it should also knock down raptors

[neon hound]

Once again I explained why it's pretty hard to avoid and also this for when Rex and other things get it

[distant torrent]

I’m ok with it being pinned, I just want it back to where it was on Spiro where the omni didn’t have enough stam to kill it in one single pounce

[leaden remnant]

i understand, but it's just easy to avoid it

[neon hound]

Yes I want that two and I want it's bleed back at the cost of the kick damage being a bit lower

[leaden remnant]

you invalidate it so easily that complaining about it is nonsense imo

other things are way worse than being pinned by a raptor

[neon hound]

It doesn't make sense getting pinned to be honest

[leaden remnant]

it does make a lot of sense

[steep echo]

I actually think getting pinned by raptor is the worst thing to happen to me in this game

[leaden remnant]

not like they have oil on their body, and even if they did, they'd be done for

[leaden remnant]

it's really not fun imma be honest

but at the same time, something specifically designed to hunt small things should have a way to easily do it

[steep echo]

90% of my playtime is spent on creatures below 175kg

so its an occupational hazard

[distant torrent]

it’s unfortunately way too easy

[steep echo]

but one I can't come to terms with

[leaden remnant]

since all of them haev ways to easily avoid raptors, it's just meh to complain about it

[leaden remnant]

it's also too easy to avoid it

[distant torrent]

it’s really not

[neon hound]

Big bird that weighs more (even if the devs decide they don't want it to for no reason), has really powerful legs and is bigger than raptor yeah makes sense why this incorrectly named Deinonychus can pin it down

[steep echo]

it's easier to be on the raptor's side

[leaden remnant]

stand on a slope watch the raptor break his legs

[distant torrent]

a good Omni won’t do that

[steep echo]

5% stamina cost, so you get multiple tries. No stagger after a missed pounce like it used to be, just line up your shot again and shoot

[leaden remnant]

half the map if not more of it doesnt allow the pin cause you die

[leaden remnant]

not if you play your cards well

[steep echo]

I'm not a fan of the what-if-raptor-bad arguments

Lets imagine an even playing field

[leaden remnant]

both have the same skill

[distant torrent]

mmm not really lol the Omni just doesn’t pounce downhill because they have an understanding that if they do, their legs are donezo

[leaden remnant]

same game knowledge, same everything

[leaden remnant]

well hell there you have it then

he wont pounce = he wont pin you down

[distant torrent]

or he comes at it from the side or up the hill because that works sometimes if close enough

not really that hard

[leaden remnant]

not hard to not get close either

maintain a small distance, he wont be able to do anything

[distant torrent]

unless the omni is faster and more agile

[steep echo]

but I'm 45km/h

I can juke but I can't make much distance

[leaden remnant]

all small things are agile enough to easily dodge em

[leaden remnant]

the speed difference aint that crazy tho, and most of the map is a good surface for herreras

[distant torrent]

nope. juvies have less agility than their adult counterparts

[leaden remnant]

herreras have it the easiest tho

[leaden remnant]

im not using juvies as an example here tbh

cause then it's not a pin thing it's an everything that sees you kills you and theres nothing you can do thing

[steep echo]

I'm gonna pick troodon for my hypothetical because it don't got dodge, it don't got climb and it don't got dryo's turning

[leaden remnant]

of course

okay hol on

mr solbu can you join norden real quick and be a raptor for me? ill be a troodon if you want

[distant torrent]

the pin prevents movement and all chance of escape. normal bites do not if you’re not simply one-tapped

[steep echo]

Give me twenty minutes while the game loads

[leaden remnant]

takes 20 mins for it to load? damn

[neon hound]

This

[steep echo]

The Isle doesn't like me

[leaden remnant]

sure, but you cant hunt small things with bites only

[leaden remnant]

oh man i can tell...

[neon hound]

One of the principle rules of game design is keep control in the players hands

[steep echo]

what are you implying

[leaden remnant]

that 20 mins is a ton of time

[distant torrent]

you can. it’s harder and gives the prey better chance of escape. now if tracking wasn’t so bad..

[leaden remnant]

but all small things will just avoid you in a second

[neon hound]

You kinda can and also that's great allow the small creature to scurry between the raptors legs

[leaden remnant]

climb up a tree, get in a burrow, etcetera

[steep echo]

"get in a burrow" IF ONLY AAAAAAAAAAAAGH I CANT WAIT ANY FRIGGIN LONGER

[leaden remnant]

LMAO

man i wish they added burrows

imma say one thing tho, every small thing needs an ability to reliably be safe

that includes raptors, ceras, carnos, etcetera

[steep echo]

start the stopwatch, Im connecting

[leaden remnant]

i don't get why they ain't added yet

[neon hound]

Ah yes carno and cera small

[leaden remnant]

it only makes the small things look like complete bonkers

[leaden remnant]

nono im sayin get away from them

[neon hound]

Oh

[distant torrent]

I’m not saying completely get rid of pounce, I’m saying make it not a one-tap play style. if one pounce doesn’t kill, then you can still have a buddy on standby to take over the rest of the pounce

[leaden remnant]

speed, agility, a safe place, etcetera

[leaden remnant]

i understand, i just don't think it's a good idea

[neon hound]

I mean Galli just needs to not be pinned and the problem is solved it can escape

[distant torrent]

all g we have different opinions

[leaden remnant]

with all the tools available to not get pinned, i find it a bit dumb to give a get out of jail free card

[leaden remnant]

it would become a raptor massacre thingy tho...

let raptors pin it down but let gallis knock em down

and reduce its damn growth time oml 2 hours is not fine

[distant torrent]

running into the rock-filled jungle will prevent your death because their acceleration is pretty bad

[leaden remnant]

aye aye sir

[leaden remnant]

rock filled jungles... hate em

most of the rocks should just be removed

[distant torrent]

yea they’re pretty bad

[leaden remnant]

they add nothing interesting to the game

[steep echo]

Let every single creature fight back against a pin if pounced from the front. Let every single creature die a horrible irresistable death if pounced from the back. #balance-feedback message

[leaden remnant]

might as well

[distant torrent]

honestly I’d be fine if they’re kept as long as smaller playables get to traverse over them and large things like carno get to stay as they are right now and get stuck on them

[leaden remnant]

solbu us or eu?

[steep echo]

EU

[distant torrent]

let smalls climb over them lightning fast

[leaden remnant]

copy

[steep echo]

I took too long to load in, kicked back to main menu

[leaden remnant]

bruh

[steep echo]

Gimme another 3 mins

[leaden remnant]

sure

[steep echo]

This is my Isle experience, and it's mine

[leaden remnant]

you get stuck in that screen?

[steep echo]

Ya, till the server kicks me

[leaden remnant]

bru

[steep echo]

I can't do Esc>Mainmenu

[leaden remnant]

with or without speed mutations?

[steep echo]

I never use mutations on norden

[leaden remnant]

copy

zero mutations then

[hasty coyote]

Heres my issue with pin:
1: the 1-shot size ratio is WAY too high compared to literally anything else in the game. Name one dino that can kill something its own weight with a single attack other than herrera? Best we got are stego with power swing dealing a bit over half its hp on a long wind up, long end lag, very audible and visible attack on a head shot. Or deino being deino (I hate that damn gator).

2: Omni can just keep spamming pounce til it lands... or it can just use bite and maul things smaller than itself with one of the best hp to bite ratios. Unlike deino and herrera, who get a single attack, thats their only chance to get that kill, if they miss its over. Theres no risk involved. Anything omni can pin can't really fight back. Sure some can "fight back" while pinned, but they don't have enough damage to actually kill the ommni, so it has no reason to stop pinning. The only risk omni has is that it misses and now has to try again.

3: Omni only has to just land an attack that aint too hard to miss all things considered and can use it pretty much anywhere. Deino is relegated to the water, but even then this part is the crux of my issue with deino. Herrera has to jump through so many hoops to land the one attack: high up, unnoticed, and the target has to not be moving or herrera has to be a god at predicting. If any of these go wrong as herrera is pouncing, its likely dead. Which brings me to the next point

4: Why is the prey forced to out skill the omni and not the other way around? In most cases, the faster dino has to be better to win, but omni just ignores that and insta wins with a single button.

Omni gets to 1-shot things its own weight because they made the mistake of getting hit by something that is faster and one of the most agile dinos in the game who can just keep throwing out the ability. Thats not a mistake punishable by death imo, heavy damage sure (and its still very heavy damage with my change), but not insta death.

[leaden remnant]

i see

[hasty coyote]

even then look at what I had to keep comparing pin to, AMBUSH dinos, omni aint ambush, its an endurance hunter.

[leaden remnant]

raptor has nothing about endurance tbh

[hasty coyote]

pounce in general is entirely endurance based

[leaden remnant]

with a 2:40 stam regen iirc and the damn thresholds, it just aint it

[steep echo]

@leaden remnant stop the clock, how long was I

[leaden remnant]

8 minutes

[steep echo]

I coulda gotten troodon venom by now

[leaden remnant]

i would argue that it's very easy to avoid being pinned and that many things do 1 tap other things like herrera, carno with knockdown, raptor with enough stamina to pin, deino, stego, etcetera

[neon hound]

Yeah tbh the raptor should just have bucking on pin and more stam that's it's problem

[steep echo]

let's talk about organising the thing in game though, we can resume talking about results in here later

[leaden remnant]

ofc

[leaden remnant]

bucking on pin, meh, fighting back, sure, and everything should have more stamina

[neon hound]

Most raptor players (mostly because they are newer or just worse than other players) constantly complain about how they can't kill things they obviously can't while they have gotten 18 consistent buffs but they don't focus on the main problem of raptor that is it has no stamina for what it is

[hasty coyote]

Yeah, but look at the weight ratios. Carno and cera deal like 300 damage with their heaviest atttack, which means at most they can kill something 1/3rd of their weight with a headshot. Stego can kill something half its weight with a charged swing, which has ample start and end lag so its very easy to avoid., plus anything it can 1-shot can easily outrun it. Deino can only kill things half its weight conistantly and 0.75% of its weight if they are making a very big mistake (swimming in deino water), even then, I still hate deino and want it nerfed just as bad. And again, look at how hard it is to land a herrera pounce compared to an omni pin and remember that omni gets multiple tries with 0 risk, herrera gets 1 chance and can die if it misses.

Like this attack is as easy to land as carno charge but has about as good payoff as deino lunge.

[neon hound]

And at least Carno has terrible turn without a weird hitbox

[hasty coyote]

saying its as easy as carno charge is being generous

[neon hound]

VERY GENEROUS

When people say that all I can think is "Oh so charging of a cliff right into your doom"

[hasty coyote]

plus if we want to compare it to carno charge, pin can be used point blank with full effectiveness and deals more damage

[heady zealot]

Would you say just nerf Raptor or buff Hera in some way?

[hasty coyote]

#balance-feedback message

[neon hound]

No it's raptor that needs nerf but that might cause an uproar among the "we don't understand what a food chain is or why you should stay in your part of it" segment of the community

Also known as the raptor but not any of the good raptors fandom

[hasty coyote]

herrera prob could use a slight nerf if anything imo anyway, it deals some insane damage and the reduced fall damage mutation makes it able to kill things way too large.

[heady zealot]

That makes sense, I haven’t played Raptor too much but if they nerfed it then I’m not sure what else would need to be buffed/ nerfed

[hasty coyote]

Plus, with my given change, it doesnt even make omni bad at killing the same stuff, it just makes it less op. Like a single pin using bleed can prob still bleed out a gali if it chooses to run.

[heady zealot]

Just cap the damage at some point, just enough to kill a full grown omni

[hasty coyote]

omni just needs some adjustments overall, its too weak in some areas and def too strong in others.

[neon hound]

Yeah exactly but the raptor but not any of the good raptors fandom wants their stupid incorrectly named Deinonychus that should be way smaller to be the king of the Isle

[hasty coyote]

I thats a bit too harsh imo, but not too bad. I'm honestly unsure of what they can really do with it because herrera is either able to consistently 1-shot things, or it just starves. Same issue as deino.

[neon hound]

Can't wait for Utahraptor to be introduced with feathers and kicking things

[heady zealot]

I mean if the issue is getting insane damage super high up then that means it can maybe kill a carno in one hit? I don’t see an issue with them one shotting an omni since it’s part of their diet and really the only way to kill a raptor.

[neon hound]

Yeah that's fine but the mutation allows them to pounce from way higher and makes it deal way more damage so it could one shot a carno

[hasty coyote]

I dont think it gets that bad to 1-shot a carno, but one good headshot on a carno thats low on stam can force it to sit, and thus be easy for the herreras to pester to death.

[heady zealot]

Yeah so if they make a limit on damage then you can still jump down 200ft but it will do the same damage as if you dropped 150ft if that makes sense

[neon hound]

Exactly

[stark knoll]

It already has a limit

[neon hound]

Huh

[heady zealot]

Do we know the exact damage number for a full grown Hera at max height?

[stark knoll]

If it's known, I don't know it

[hasty coyote]

I don't think it does, last I tested it can keep going up even past the leg break range with the fall damage mutation. It does seem to have a soft cap tho, so its like a logarithmic function.

I could be wrong tho since I wasnt directly testing for a limit

[steep echo]

@leaden remnant if you're in agreement then what seeded the discussion?

[leaden remnant]

that i dont think that nerf is a good idea

i don't midn things fighting back, i really dont

but i dont think that get out of jail free cards should be a thing

also that it's pretty easy to avoid em raptors as you saw so i just dont see the point in nerfing the heck outta it

also for me unfun doesnt mean should be removed

[steep echo]

I want it changed or replaced with something else

[leaden remnant]

certain things in this game are unfun like dying, getting grabbed by a deino, bodycampers, getting stuck, etcetera

[leaden remnant]

i understand

[steep echo]

I had a thought a while back, it could be a knockdown. Essentially the same outcome but you still have to land the finishing moves yourself

Your bites get multiplied

[leaden remnant]

i just dont see the point in doin that but i understand what you mean

it would make it a smaller carno tho

anyways since it's late imma go, been a pleasure having a normal discussion fellas 🫡

[hasty coyote]

its not get out of jail free, its get out of jail with felony record and 1 month probation. With my suggestion you're still dealing about half the dino's max hp or more, leaving them bleeding and without a solid chunk of stam.

if they dont escape quickly they just die to the next hit

[hasty coyote]

cya next time then

[neon hound]

It's a get out of jail when you were wrongfully imprisoned card

[lean wren]

it can three shot stego's full grown i believe

[heady zealot]

Damn, but what are the odds of getting three perfect pounces onto one?

[lean wren]

15% very hard for moving stego's

[hasty coyote]

How high are you dropping from to get that number?

[lean wren]

i'm breaking my legs and aiming for the head

[hasty coyote]

still, how far? At the exact break point, you deal a bit over 300 damage, aint no way you're surviving a fall that deals 1000 damage

[tropic horizon]

@cobalt dagger I quite love this idea, I think it could work pretty well the way you implemented it where it shows your location to others of your species. Only thing I'd add to it is a certain range threshold because at ridiculously far ranges, having someones nametag could be less helpful than one would think(mainly because having their nametag through walls is gonna result in a lot of confusion as to where they actually are at farther ranges). I think that capping the range to a little further than where you can hear the one call would be good enough.

[glossy elbow]

even at the max your only doing 600ish damage on a stego since it has a 2x damage multiplier on its head?

you'd have to do a minimum of a thousand damage and hit the head every single time which anything past the break point can severely hurt you

[cobalt dagger]

I think it should work just the same as group calls currently do since it'd be easier to program that way.

[stark knoll]

@abstract void Please don't use the feedback channels to ask questions, and you can play and find out yourself on the hordetesting branch

[honest wasp]

Wow look at that...Salt licks are useful now? I bet you next patch they'll make them be able to pounce at you for 0 cost of stamina.

[dusky surge]

what are you on about lol

tf does salt licks gotta do with any of that

[steep echo]

I was dreading another "make rare playables into support animals for herds" idea but the broadcast thing is perfect

[lean wren]

@hasty coyote as a omni main the stam to try and kill a cera carno and dibble is insane

and if you get it wrong or if you don't have another 2 raptors or 3 raptors its brutal

as well as the stamina to hold down herbies cost 3 full things of stamina against a dibble or a stego

or a cera especiall with the 50% increased buff when they are around a dead body

[hasty coyote]

I'm not talking about grapple, I'm referring to exclusively pin. As in, when you are pouncing something smaller than yourself. As I said, grapple is a whole other can of worms that I did not address in that post.

grapple=multiple omnis taking down something big
pin=1 omni landing a pounce on something small

[finite shadow]

@cobalt dagger just run away and the raptor wont pin you

[distant torrent]

that’s not a good excuse to excuse the hold-to-win state of it right now. the suggestion is actually returning it back to how the interaction was on Spiro, which is a good thing. it was genuinely fun and more fair for both sides

[finite shadow]

if the raptor lands an ambush with its ability on the fastest creature in the game, or the galli has hung around to f around and find out then it deserves to die to the pin

[distant torrent]

the galli didn’t have enough health to fight back and had to run and sit or die to bleed, and the omni has zero stam and had to initiate the chase immediately and follow to keep the galli moving so it could bleed out

if the galli was lost, the omni didn’t get the kill. if the galli was found, it’d keep it moving and it’d bleed out

[languid kraken]

we dont need to nerf omni pounce, it already gets destroyed by everything unless its in a group

[distant torrent]

and then it destroys most of the roster if it is in a group

quite literally destroys because of the grapple mechanic lol

[languid kraken]

Like it's intended tbh. Everything can destroy most of the roster if it's in a big enough group, omni just happens to have that incorporated into its playstyle. As a galli, you're a prey animal and will inevitably be killed, if you can't avoid being bitten/pounced by a raptor as the fastest animal in the game it's a player issue, not a mechanical issue. Raptor is more than strong enough to grapple a galli.

[distant torrent]

not to the point where they can invalidate fighting back by pinning them to the ground. omni is the only one that can do that right now while also having the luxury of being faster than many (not all) of the roster playables. and if they are faster, they either get one-tapped with pin or they get significantly slowed when pounced by one omni

[languid kraken]

That's like saying teno shouldn't be able to tailslam because it invalidates fighting back via stun, or that Diablo shouldn't have knockdown when attacking because that also invalidates fighting back. Just like you can dodge a teno or diablo knockdown, you can dodge a omni pounce. You take a huge risk playing solo galli, if you had group members, even one other, you could handle an omni. Galli is usually intended to be a pack animal anyways

[hasty coyote]

Omni is incredbly strong against anything smaller than itself because pin is an insta win button. All I want changed there is for it not to be an insta win but instead just very heavy damage. Still enough to make the target likely to die if they don't escape immediately, but enough to allow them the option of escape.
Whats another ability in this game thats as easy to use as pounce and has as devasting of an effect as pin?

[distant torrent]

only difference for those is the stuns from slam and dibble cause a very brief and temporary stun that you can run away from. omnis grapple you down and you can’t do anything. imagine a stun from a tailslam but it lasts 15 seconds. it’s not very fun

[hasty coyote]

and the dino using the stun is both faster and more agile than you

Omni is having the same issue as pre-update 6.5 pachy was but with none of the nerfs.

[distant torrent]

what was the last omni nerf mentioned in patchnotes? like requiring 2 to instantly grapple instead of 1 lol

[languid kraken]

Yes I understand, it's not fun. I've been on the receiving end of the pin many times, but sometimes animals will inevitably have an advantage over you. Omni has more weight and upperbody strength than a galli, it should be able to pin a galli. Maybe it should have a short window to be able to be bucked off or knocked off before you're pinned, but carnivore is supposed to be fun to play too yk

Pinning should be a death sentence, but I digress that there should be a certain window before pinning that should allow a player to combat it.

[distant torrent]

inho I don’t consider having an instant button click to win being fun. some people do though which fine fine ig. everyone finds some things fun and other things not so fun

[languid kraken]

It's not an instant click button to win, it takes a certain skill to land a miles slower pounce on quite literally one of the quickest and most agile animals in the game.

[distant torrent]

it really doesn’t. you run up very close then pounce. you only miss it if you pounce from farther away

[languid kraken]

Not trying to start a fight or anything fyi, just tryna have a conversation, sorry if I sound rude I have a hard time conveying tone in messages

[distant torrent]

I’m not taking anything as rude no worries!

[hasty coyote]

Just saying "it should be op because its strong" is a horrible way to balance things, and is why we ended up with deino.
While I understand gali getting pinned, its fast and has methods of escape. I don't believe it should get one-shot purely because there are smaller dinos with less escape options than gali. Like dryo, what is it supposed to do against omni other than spam dodge for 3 minutes and hope omni never hits a single pin?
Or because carnivores need to be fun, what about austro? should it just be fodder to omni because omni is slightly larger than it?

[languid kraken]

You shouldn't be able to get that close to a galli unless they lay a particularly good ambush

[distant torrent]

with that logic I guess stego should be absolutely annihilating the whole current roster without any question. where are its major buffs? I’m ready to play that kind of stego lol

[languid kraken]

You can outrun and outpace a omni, even kill one with 2 gallis, that should be a good enough means of escape.

[hasty coyote]

Yes, I'm saying gali has options, that I agree with.

I'm argueing that if omni is able to 1-shot a gali, its going to obliterate all the smaller dinos who don't have those escape options.

[languid kraken]

Stego does annihilate the roster, you can't do anything to itm without a substantial amount of carnivores. The only debuff it has is being slow.

[distant torrent]

you’d be surprised

the poor thing can be annihilated by two dibbles and ceras can easily kill it with the puke. solo deinos can kill it too, but that requires a skilled and smart deino which you don’t really see often

[languid kraken]

smaller animals should all have a means of escape, burrowing, climbing, packs, speed, etc. I don't know much about the smaller roster but I know that nothing is just a sitting duck, if it cant escape a measly omni or two it shouldn't be added to the roster

[distant torrent]

good omni packs annihilate it too

I’d imagine dilos can too if patient enough. I soloed a teno with my dilo because I just kept sending clones while staying away

[languid kraken]

i've never seen a cera pack even attempt to attack a steg unless said steg is solo and there's like 15 ceras tbh lol

[dusky surge]

HT steg may stand a better chance thanks to its controls being less awful and the cooldown going away

Stam still too high but eh

[hasty coyote]

As such, my suggestion is to just allow dinos to break out of pin with a cost of stamina after some time. That way the omni still deals significant damage, but the target has a chance to escape before the omni catches up to it again. With gali being pretty vulnerable to bleed, a gali who was pinned can only run so far before it bleeds out. So either the omni is able to track it down to where it hid, the gali bleeds out far away because it kept running, or omni doesnt find the gali and it manages to live another day.
Anything small that has a gimmick also gets the chance to use the gimmick rather than just dying on the spot (unless they are absolutely tiny)

[distant torrent]

I’ve seen it and it’s pretty sad lol it can be done with a pack of ceras. especially with the one hit to vomit that’s currently going on

[distant torrent]

yea that stam usage needs to be lowered. it has asthma

[dusky surge]

true, but the recent changes tell us they are listening. because they fixed stego's clunkiness first

[distant torrent]

[dusky surge]

i'd rather an athsmatic stego with a fluid combat than a stam-efficient stego that's still clunky

[hasty coyote]

dryo, whats its method of escape currently?

[distant torrent]

squeaking and running in the opposite direction while spamming the dodge for that little speed boost. you just die ig if the omni has a speed mutation

[languid kraken]

burrowing when it's added (i know it's not a mechanic currently), agility, dodge

I know dryo isnt in a good spot atm, thats why u hardly ever see it

which is unfortunate bc it's one of my fav playables

[hasty coyote]

Burrow has a lot of flaws, but I'd have to see how its implemented.
The agility difference between dryo and omni is less than the difference between carno and dilo, and dilo already suffers against carnos.
dodge is useful, but you only get one every like 15 seconds, and being generous that it makes omni get off your tail for 5 seconds, that still leaves 10 second intervals with nothing to help.
So all dryo can do is run and hope the omni is bad and doesnt land a single pin... or just uses the other ability it has and bites dryo to death.

[languid kraken]

Yes I do agree dryo needs help, dodge intervals should be increased to every 5 seconds or something of the like, anything to help it out at least a little

larger parts of the map that are geared towards smaller playables, nooks and crannys, etc.

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah and I can just run away from the carno too. Also the herra, and the herra has it worse - He has to hope I'm under a tree as WELL as sneaking up on me.

I agree that Galli can just run away from things, I certainly don't think the galli should need to be beating up the raptor. But it feels crazy to me that something that grows longer than raptor (carno) has to work harder to ambush a galli than the raptor does.

[neon hound]

#balance-feedback message Yeah they just need better plants and stuff the new diet system is great the food and diet values not so much

[heady zealot]

I’ve heard Raptor is kinda ass now against bigger stuff due to bucking being RNG

[golden coral]

Yes. Without a doubt, removing the clunkiness is far better than just giving another few attacks. Also did I see it right, did you play stego to test fight? If so, how did it go and what did you fight? Is stego as bad as we think overall?

[dusky surge]

i did, it sucked. troodon unironically ruins stego because it slowly drains stam, meaning stego can't get advantage of its crutch mutation

trying stego now though def shows some improvements. You can quickly transition from the power stance into an alt-swing with little control difficulty

also being able to quickly powerswing in succession is great

[golden coral]

What do you mean, slowly drains stam? How? So, is troodon still capable of killing stego then? What numbers/growth involved?

And yeah, new changes sounds great. Im currently on vacation so cant play, but no cooldown should feel a lot better. And glad to hear the jab being on alt makes it smoother to use it or the swing.

[dusky surge]

Yea, the worst part about stego is the stam now, but that's excusable given it currently FEELS good

[glossy elbow]

we tried to kill a stego with like 6+ troodons and only got it down to like 79% i think?

[golden coral]

How did your test fights go?

[heady zealot]

I watched a clip where a raptor used all of his stamina to apply damage on a stego and it only took like 10% of its health, I’m curious as to what a few troodons can do if they get the venom stack up and keep applying it

[cosmic pelican]

They could probably do some good damage, but even if they somehow kill it before all dying to rng bucking the body would be useless for them

Stego isnt on troodons diet and they cant take out organs from anything bigger than 1.3 tons

[heady zealot]

So as a pack what is the best thing for troodons to hunt?

[cosmic pelican]

dilos get melted if they dont run

just have someone save all their stam so they can track the dilo if it runs

omnis also die quick but pin is dangerous

anything below 1 ton is decent as well

[heady zealot]

Ok, I figured raptors and things with high agility would be more difficult for troodons to fight

We took down small stegos, pachy, and probably could have taken down a Cera who walked right into our cave

[golden coral]

@cosmic pelican how many pounces can a solo troodon reasonably pull off before being too low on stam?

[cosmic pelican]

just enough to kill a dilo if you dont miss any

and the dilo doesnt run

Closest it couldve been

I only missed 2 pounces and I still had to resort to bites

[heady zealot]

wtf was that croc doing lmao

[cosmic pelican]

he died to dehydration like 20 seconds later lmao

[heady zealot]

Was he after you, or waiting for you to kill Dilo to get some? That’s pretty ballsy cuz I don’t see water anywhere close

[cosmic pelican]

no clue, but he got what was coming for him

[golden coral]

Counted about 8 pounces, sounds right?

[cosmic pelican]

yeap

mind you depends who youre fighting

you wont be getting anywhere close to this vs an omni

[golden coral]

No, was thinking vs trike and rex, the amount of pounces needed to do 9k damage, and amount of troodons needed vs pack size

[cosmic pelican]

Eh I doubt that will even be a matchup honestly

youd need 100+ pounces at least

[golden coral]

Well, stego is killable, its not that much more, and pack limit is 12,right? So about 6 pounces for every troodon would do it?

[heady zealot]

Last I checked pack limit is 10

[cosmic pelican]

Last I tested you just all die to bucking rng or dismount deaths now

and thats not accounting for the stego stalling or using terrain

it just needs to hug a wall and no amount of troodons will be able to kill it

[heady zealot]

Yes so I’m not sure when the changes were made but am I correct in assuming that going for pounces is a bad idea as a raptor and now as a raptor you should just go for pins?

Because the pounce RNG and pinning is basically an auto-win

[golden coral]

So noted, will account for that

[golden coral]

Yes well, Im mostly thinking in terms of damage output since it was mentioned before. Not saying the fight would go well, just comparing pounces needed to kill large targets and seeing how reasonable or not it is to kill something like deino and so on.

[heady zealot]

I think Deino would die of dehydration before troodons could kill it

[golden coral]

It might, depending on how fast the troodons can pounce. But Im more interested in the damage output and how much it would take to kill one and thus how doable it would be as a fight. Just counting numbers, really.

[heady zealot]

Nice, a lot of people I’ve spoken to either love or hate Troodon for various reasons. A lot of people on Reddit say Troodon shouldn’t have ever been added lol, I assume because they view Raptor as better

[cosmic pelican]

I wouldnt really listen to anyone on reddit tbh, most people are only there to hate on the game

[dusky surge]

^

people calling troodon a worse raptor shows how little they know about it

beyond the fact that both pounce (and even then their pounces have several distinct differences that seperate them), they're extremely different in how they're supposed to address a hunt

[cosmic pelican]

Also the fact that troodon currently just outperforms omni in pretty much every way since it isnt screwed over by rng

[dusky surge]

i honestly reckon most troodon hate comes from people who
A: Don't play it
B: Have an unreasonable hateboner for literally any creature they consider "too small"

So yea, the reddit

[heady zealot]

Yeah Troodon doesn’t need to stay on the target once pounced, they can hit and run

Plus the absolutely insane nightvision + nocturnal mutation makes hunting at night very fun

[cosmic pelican]

I cant even tell you how many people I killed in a 1v1 just because they didnt know how to counter troodons

Most people just never expect to be killed by something 1/10th their size

Ah yes the "Waste of a server slot" playable

[golden coral]

Didnt you say troodon dies to bucking rng as well? xD

[cosmic pelican]

depends vs what

and well luck XD

being bucked off by a dilo isnt as deadly as lets say a stego

the stego just has to click a button and you will die, the dilo has to aim

different attacks and all

I said troodon can ignore rng because you wont be going after stegos anyways, unless youre on a suicide mission

[golden coral]

Fair, how does it work vs a omni or herrera, or dryo / teno?

Can dryo or herrera actually fight back for that matter?

[cosmic pelican]

omni has a pretty good chance of hitting you if it reacts in time, you have to get extremely unlucky to be hit by a herrera on dismount since it lacks range, if dryo spams its tail attack it can actually hit you pretty reliably and if you get bucked off by a teno its almost always gg since its alt attack is insanely good AOE

[cosmic pelican]

dryo cant really kill troodons, but it can defend itself, one hit from a dryo will put you below 50% most of the time so the hunt becomes very risky

herrera can just ignore troodons if it wants to, theres a reason it has climbing

but if it stays on the ground to fight it will lose 90% of the time

[heady zealot]

A Hera took out one or two in our troodon pack on the petit pied server, we got a little carried away spamming the 1 key lol

Also idk if it’s in the game since I haven’t seen it yet but is there fog/ ground fog?

[charred spade]

JESUS

[warm flax]

there is , specially in the swamp area

[neon hound]

#balance-feedback message Don't increase Troodon weight it's a small for a reason

[charred spade]

why not? Jesus Herrera WEIGHS 200 KG, although he has received a nerf making him 175Kg currently, Trodon is small and is practically extinct, my suggestion is to increase the chances of survival of a solo or double Troodon.

[neon hound]

To be fair they are a horde animal I'd rather buff it some other way than weight5

[charred spade]

The weight is to increase their life base, they die with a slap, even with the 15% damage reduction mutation, since you don't want weight, I can suggest that the 15% reduction mutation be increased for Trodon by 50%.

[neon hound]

Yeah that be good

[charred spade]

I think it's funny that all animals with the same diet have the same mutations at the same rate.

[dusky surge]

herrera has always been 175kg

[dusky surge]

also the damage resist mutation is bad enough, buffing it for troodon would be horrid

please dont enforce the mutation meta even more than its already been

[charred spade]

No, I remember that months ago your base weight was 200kg

[dusky surge]

nope. always has been 175kg

herrera has never had 200kg

since its first hordetest, it's been 175kg

[charred spade]

1 Crouching baby VS HYDROGEN BOMB

this mutation is useless to Troodon because it dies with a slap anyway

[charred spade]

I already corrected in #balance-feedback

[dusky surge]

it's extremely valuable to troodon because EVERYTHING is larger than it, so it always has the damage resist in basically every fight besides against ptera and hypsi

it's literally one of the most overpowered mutations in the game

[mint star]

its helped me survive against juvenile diablos when fighting in sanctuaries

[dusky surge]

it literally means you can not die to things that would otherwise kill you

[dusky surge]

^

EXTREMELY valuable in juvi hunting

[charred spade]

Trodon always had the advantage over Ptero and Hispy sir

[dusky surge]

Exactly

[mint star]

getting hit by an alt attack then running off to heal while the juvenile diablo cannot heal

[dusky surge]

So the mutation is always useful

[charred spade]

No one play Hispy and when play, THEY DONT FIGHT against a DOG FROM HELL anyway.

[dusky surge]

You're proving my point

[green heart]

I play hupsi on occasion

[dusky surge]

That mutation is already a must-pick on Troodon, the only two animals that don't get resisted are ones that die instantly to troodon

[charred spade]

No, because he already had the advantage over them anyway, plus Ptera and Hypsi are lighter than Trodon that I remember

[dusky surge]

So buffing it would basically mean it's useless to pick any other mutation

[charred spade]

bruh

[dusky surge]

Troodon doesn't need that mutation buffed, or a health buff

[charred spade]

yes he need

[dusky surge]

As someone who's favourite playable in the entire game is Troodon, no, it doesn't

[charred spade]

Yes he needs it

[dusky surge]

Why?

[distant torrent]

isn’t dryo heavier than troodon? that effectively means that larger species damage reduction buff will cut dryo’s defensive capabilities against troo in half lol

[dusky surge]

Yep

It's like when Troodon had 120HP

Dryo couldn't defend itself from it and just died

Fun! (not really, it was extremely lame)

[charred spade]

Giving this mutation boost to Troodon will give it the ability to survive 2-3 bites vs Carno/Teno.
Almost no one plays with it due to its weak state and little played, Troodon is a purely group animal, hunting alone has a 90% chance of death against adult animals, it can only do well against puppies

[dusky surge]

Why on earth would it need to survive 2 bites against a carno LMAO

it's a TROODON. It should die if it gets bitten

[charred spade]

well why not

[dusky surge]

I play Troodon, it's MEANT to be squishy

[dusky surge]

Because that's unbalanced and defeats the point of Troodon

If you constantly are dying as Troodon, that's because you personally are not good at Troodon. Troodon is extremely survivable because it has insane agility and a tiny hitbox, making it extremely hard to hit

[charred spade]

Troodon's point died when he became an extinct and lonely animal in the game

[dusky surge]

He didn't though, many people still play it

[green heart]

I grew a troodon yesterday

[dusky surge]

Just because you personally don't play it doesn't mean no one does

[green heart]

And ran into like, 3 others doing so

[dusky surge]

I play Troodon whenever I want a fun animal to grow

It's my go-to

[charred spade]

"many people play"

• 5 Troodon players spread across the island with 100 people and of these 5, 3 died, either due to predation or giving up playing Troodon

and if you're lucky, you might find a Troodon to pack

[dusky surge]

And making it overpowered will just make it the new cerato where everyone will play it and everyone else will hate it

Troodon relies on the fact that it's extremely hard to hit in the first place

[charred spade]

and we need it... it's a necessary sacrifice

[dusky surge]

No it isn't

[charred spade]

yes we need

[dusky surge]

You're just making Troodon meta and less fun for people like me who actually like the animal to be balanced and fun

By your logic, we need cera buffs. Why? We need.

[charred spade]

balanced? it can't hunt almost anything that's an adult, besides the ping/lag being high on some occasions, sometimes you hit the pounce and die because the damned thing even hitting the pounce decided to stay still in the air and fall to the ground, making the enemy kill you using CTRL

[charred spade]

no?

A CROUCHING BABY

VS

UNIVERSE

[dusky surge]

what does that even mean in this context lol

[green heart]

I’ve hunted adult omnis and dilos as a solo troodon, it’s difficult, but doable

[charred spade]

That troodon is weak, it needs a group, which is its strong point, but it doesn't have that, it's a solitary animal that can't hunt almost anything and doesn't threaten anyone if it only knows the basics of how to play against a Trodon

[dusky surge]

Troodon literally works fine solo

I play Troodon solo all the time

It honestly just feels like you don't know how to play Troodon and thus you want it to be buffed lol

[charred spade]

• An animal made for group

[green heart]

I’d like troodon’s venom to be more unique, but that’s primarily because it’s my favorite dino

[charred spade]

I know how to play Troodon, at the same time I have been other animals and fought against Troodons, it is without a doubt the easiest fight in history, you only need 1-2 bites to kill it

[dusky surge]

so is omni. it also works fine solo

[dusky surge]

yes, that's why Troodon needs to be evasive

it doesn't need to take more hits because it's literally tiny

[charred spade]

Omni, the second best bleeder in the game who is extremely fast and maneuverable, capable of hunting any animal smaller than himself and even larger without the need for much skill lmao

[dusky surge]

if we're buffing troodon's health, we need to buff dryo's health too

[charred spade]

correct

[dusky surge]

if we're buffing dryo's health, we should buff herrera's health too

[charred spade]

No?

[dusky surge]

if we're buffing herrera's health, we should buff omni's health too

screw it, 16000HP deino

jump right to the logical conclusion

[charred spade]

I'm impressed by your ability to get out of your focus and border on insanity just because an extinct animal in the game may be a little stronger and that makes you border on insanity

[dusky surge]

i'm more focused on the fact that it doesn't need it

and such a buff would require a complete overhaul to the entire balance because matchups would be entirely disrupted

[charred spade]

and I'm focused on the fact that it needs

[neon hound]

Very good argument you have done nothing to prove yor point

[golden coral]

Troodon is perfectly fine, if not bordering on overtuned. Troodon does not need to mismatch HP again, nor does it need a meta mutation.

[charred spade]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-gif-16940124723318557081

[charred spade]

use your eyes and read previous messages

[neon hound]

I have

[charred spade]

so

use

[neon hound]

Everyone else seems to disagree with you

[dusky surge]

your previous messages are just "it needs" which is not compelling lol

[charred spade]

I literally explained Troodon's current state as a reason but your brain captured an Irony better than my argument

https://tenor.com/view/kaboom-boom-nuke-nuclear-bomb-gif-20734003

[dusky surge]

there's literally nothing wrong with its current state beyond some people not being very good at it and dying

[neon hound]

Why do you never make good arguments I've seen you make some before and they always lack any sense or convince anyone of anything

[neon hound]

This is the main problem with people complaining when something needs a buff

[golden coral]

Well, youre wrong, troodon is fine, you can solo omnis, dilos, herreras, dryos, possibly pachies too. Youre also a great juvie hunter, and can terrorize sanctuaries, and find pack mates there too.

[charred spade]

The first time you saw any of my arguments was probably 5 minutes ago in this chat

[neon hound]

Nup

Definitely remember you

[charred spade]

An animal made to be a group animal, is now a solitary animal that cannot hunt anything bigger than itself except slow babies.

[dusky surge]

it absolutely can hunt things larger than itself

i've done it many times

because i play a ton of troodon

[charred spade]

If you remember then you should know that most of the time my arguments are plausible and I have already made good suggestions with a lot of votes.

[neon hound]

Great argument I have more votes than you so I'm right

[charred spade]

So you're going to tell me that you killed an adult Cera with Trodon now?

Troodon can only hunt an adult Omni at most, and it has to be bad or a player suffering from Lag, I have never been killed by a Troodon in my entire life on any animal I played

[neon hound]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-shaking-blurry-maximum-over-bait-gif-6147014

[dusky surge]

i have once yes

probably my most impressive fight and a lot of fun

[golden coral]

Except you can hunt things larger than yourself, including larger juvies.

[dusky surge]

but balancing troodon under the expectation that it will regularly be doing that would absolutely make it overpowered

[charred spade]

I will kill the fish that decided to migrate to dry land now

[keen plover]

eh

i'd agree if troodon was actually faster than them

but you'd have to play like an idiot to die to a troodon 1 v 1 of course

[golden coral]

Dilo, maybe tenos and ceras about dilo size too, and so on.

[charred spade]

I was referring to adult animals, puppies and teenagers are easy, the only real problem is Stamina

[golden coral]

You dont need to hunt adults, larger things dont have to be fully grown

[charred spade]

That's what I'm talking about, you have to be really bad to lose to a Troodon

[golden coral]

None the less, its doable, which was the point

[neon hound]

THAT'S WHY IT'S A HORDE CREATURE THAT SWARMS GOD JUST ACCEPT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT IT ISN'T SUPPOSED TO ATTACK THINGS IN 1 V 1S

[charred spade]

I've already killed an adult Teno using just 2 pounces and the rest normal attacks to keep him moving, which is easy if you know how to play, now Troodon depends entirely on his stamina and if his lag isn't Andromeda to kill at least one raptor

[charred spade]

THATS THE PROBLEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[golden coral]

Not really, troodon is trickier to deal with than you seem to think.

[keen plover]

Lol not a chance

That thing is a non issue

[neon hound]

Is it because that's not bad a pack hunter exists

[golden coral]

What?

[keen plover]

They're not that hard to deal with *

[charred spade]

I've dealt with some really good Troodons, but my maneuvers and quick movements and being able to follow exactly the direction they were going meant they had no chance against me, while I was an Omni.

[keen plover]

Easy to deal with even *

[golden coral]

Yes, they are

[keen plover]

For the creatures you listed? It's easy mode

[golden coral]

Not really, no.

[charred spade]

Troodon that day must have thought I was Hacking so I could chase him in whatever direction he was going.

[keen plover]

Shift + W

[charred spade]

what

[keen plover]

or just dodge. A solo troodon won't have any chance of killing you

Or just time it since they're loud and easy to track in grass

[golden coral]

Well, sure, but Im talking fighting

[keen plover]

Running is apart of a fight. Don't stand still

The troodon will waste stam

[golden coral]

No, it wont, not much at any rate

[keen plover]

It does. They need to constantly pounce

face them and if they face pounce, free hit. Pachy for example can keep up with it by turning in place

cera can easily catch it on dismount

[golden coral]

Yeah but youre not missing pounces

[keen plover]

They will 100% miss pounces. I have never seen anyone consistently get every pounce

[charred spade]

they still need to hit 3 pounces in a period of 25 seconds until the poison disappears and you need to redo the process because you couldn't reach the purple state

[keen plover]

^

[charred spade]

only those who have 10 ping

[keen plover]

Run every time they get you on stage 2 and the damage will be manageable. You can stall them and they'll miss some pounces here and there lol

and that's in the open

[charred spade]

exactly

[keen plover]

I think troodon is very good at mauling newer players but if you know what you're doing, it's not a massive threat

[golden coral]

Yeah sure, if you're just doing the "run away when envenomed" thing, that people do complain about. But if you do fight, it's not as easy as you make it out to be, and Im not sure why you seem to think otherwise.

[golden coral]

Well, we've never played raptors together I don't think so xD

[keen plover]

Isn't that apart of combat though? Knowing a playables capability and using it against it? I see no reasons as to why you wouldn't use it

A fight isn't just staying in one area either imo

[golden coral]

Sure, you could argue it is, but people seem to disagree, considering the amount of "troodon cant chase, needs help there" feedback Ive seen

[cosmic pelican]

Troodon is the prime example of a playable that feels extremely strong on a test server, but just horrible in survival

[keen plover]

and again, that's in the open? You can limit angles for pounce

Teno doesn't even need to run either. You can brawl them decently in the open

[cosmic pelican]

Like yeah sure, you do technically have the capability to solo up to dilo sized stuff. But outside of deathmatch servers youre never pulling that off

[charred spade]

he thinks otherwise because he has had experience against Troodon.
At least for me is really very easy to kill and chase a Troodon

[keen plover]

Fair

[keen plover]

Don't you waste like 80% stam usually from your clips lol

[golden coral]

And you're assuming I've never fought troodons then, or what?

[cosmic pelican]

Yeap

Now imagine if the things I kill tried to stall or run away

I would just be helpless

[golden coral]

I wouldnt call it waste if 95% of it is used in the engagement properly, and it looked that way from the vids I saw

[keen plover]

The only creature that does struggle with troodon is probably stego

That is an annoying matchup for the stego

[keen plover]

Tbf they're also not making much distance in those clips to waste additional stam

[charred spade]

I just assumed that he has dealt with Troodon as well as me to know that they are very easy to kill and pose almost no threat

[keen plover]

which is what people do in survival

[cosmic pelican]

All of those, aside from 1 yt video, are recorded on an admin server where people will fight to the death happily without a care in the world

Again, theoretically its possible, but its just not happening outside of those kinds of servers

And I tried plenty of times in survival too

You either die early due to various reasons, venom resets before stage 3 (automatic L, you now wont have the stamina to kill the thing youre attacking), you get 3rd partied since troodon is loud or the prey just decides it wants to live and either runs away or finds a spot to camp/stall in

[keen plover]

omni can decently catch you off dismount lol

[cosmic pelican]

With an alt attack yeah

[keen plover]

with the lag on officials, it's like almost always guaranteed

Since more players = higher ping

[cosmic pelican]

Being bucked off is a death sentence vs an experienced omni

[keen plover]

😔

[cosmic pelican]

Youll either be instantly pinned (fun) or alt attacked

[charred spade]

exaclty, thats why Troodon need upgrades.

[dusky surge]

and buffing its health doesn't help anything about what was just talked about LMAO

full circle

[golden coral]

At least you fight back in a pin!

[cosmic pelican]

And even the clips I show where I win took a good hour of attempts

At least

[green heart]

Venom that affects stamina is my go to suggestion

[charred spade]

Mutation with 50% damage reduction

[charred spade]

[keen plover]

nahhhh

[dusky surge]

also doesn't fix anything that was just talked about

you just enforce a meta, and a lame one at that

[cosmic pelican]

A whopping 5% of the omnis hp

[keen plover]

austro better beat omni if they decide to pin it from the front

[golden coral]

Yeah, fair.

[golden coral]

Does that make sense?

[charred spade]

In fact, this would make it efficient considering that any baby would be absolutely massacred, I don't know if you noticed but the gameplay of all the dinos is designed in such a way to imitate an Instinct, the actions of all the animals in the game are pre-instincts. -embedded to know how to fight with little experience.

[golden coral]

Not sure how powerful the austro would be compared to omni

[keen plover]

Troodon / beipi can maul a raptor that is larger than it iirc if pinned

[charred spade]

Troodon's most primitive instinct in the game is its essence as a pack animal.

[dusky surge]

that's a weird rant to go on given you're not even suggesting to buff troodon's basekit but an optional sidegrade mutation

[golden coral]

Ah, then yeah, it would be fine, though austro does look... fragile xD

[charred spade]

and he doesn't have

[dusky surge]

none of the buffs you suggested benefit it as such

[keen plover]

I think the omni should have to pounce the back

[dusky surge]

if anything, every buff you suggested benefits solo troodon

[keen plover]

Like vs beipi

Pin back = free damage / bleed
Pin front = retaliation

[golden coral]

Sounds good to me. I do think that should apply to a troodon/omni too, unless it does?

[keen plover]

Used to for omni

[cosmic pelican]

It does

[keen plover]

Wait that's back?

[cosmic pelican]

Got added back it seems yeah

[keen plover]

Makes sense. I had a feeling since i took 0 bleed

[cosmic pelican]

Ive been pinning juvi omnis without taking any dmg or bleed as troodon recently

[charred spade]

Ok, so let's follow the line of the guy above who suggested that poison causes loss of stamina.

I would also love to add one thing to this... reducing troodon stamina consumption by 30% base

[keen plover]

I never bothered to check though

[golden coral]

Good to hear, always wanted various directions to matter when it came to pin

[keen plover]

now add it to galli

[green heart]

Too much

[charred spade]

https://tenor.com/view/erm-what-the-freak-puppy-stare-cute-reaction-gif-15215675160072457679

[charred spade]

no, considering that he will miss several pounces and even if he hits a lot, he will run out of stam to continue, or we can increase stam regeneration

[green heart]

Have Troodon venom deal the damage, and increase the stamina consumption of a victim by 25-20% would be something I’d like to see

[green heart]

Why not give it to other pouncers?

[charred spade]

Are you talking about making your prey fight larger animals to catch him in a weak state?

[golden coral]

Isnt it supposed to get something?

[green heart]

So far, every pouncer in the game is a pack predator, so yes

[keen plover]

#isle-discussion message

5 months ago tho

[green heart]

There’s a difference between a fun ability and getting demolished but something 1/50th of your size because “it dies too fast to fight”

Troodon should be a highly skilled based playable

[charred spade]

This is very unlikely to happen, most of the time you will find your prey healthy and will probably have killed what attacked it, you just consume the victim it caused, but if it is a Cera and on top of that with a pack, then it is useless

[golden coral]

Every playable should be, I've never understood why some should be more or less than others.

[green heart]

Cera’s abilities make it very good at countering pack hunters and smaller animals, don’t hunt something that is especially good at killing you, choose your targets

[dusky surge]

idk, im of the opinion that not all should be made equal

[green heart]

Same

[dusky surge]

certain animals have very complex survival strategies, others do the most simple stuff you can think of

[charred spade]

that's the problem, there are almost never weak, small or sufficient prey against Troodon's stamina lmao.

[dusky surge]

a carno's hunting strategy is objectively less strategic than an omni's, because omni needs to collaborate, choose between bleed vs damage, use its agility to evade attack, pounce flanks

carno runs at things till they die

[green heart]

Which is why I think troodon should really lean into the pursuit predator more than the night terror, let dilo have it’s fun

I agree, I think troodon could use some changes, but I don’t think troodon should be able to easily solo things 5-6 times it’s size by unrealistic health or stamina for it’s size

[charred spade]

Carnivores on The Isle hunting and being successful

Cerato: keep your damn mouth open and be an Indominus Rex against anything and make yourself vomit

Carno: Formula 1 car or just a few bites like a demonic pug

Omni: Take someone less heavy than him and throw him to the ground to death or make someone bleed to death

Deino: public animal transporter

Troodon: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
(150 damn ping)

[dusky surge]

what

[charred spade]

bro can only scream and eat snacks

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-movie-fall-falling-meme-gif-24396824

[dusky surge]

it can also hunt lol

[green heart]

I’ve been hunted by a troodon before through thick brush, it was pretty spooky because I couldn’t see it at all

[dusky surge]

also, again, buffing its health doesn't change the fact that the primary issue everyone agress on with Troodon is that most things can just run away from it and live

so ironically, a buff to its health/damage resist does nothing to address your fundamental issue with it

[charred spade]

See that all the animals in the game have their gameplay base adapted to hunting alone, while Troodon depends on a group, almost non-existent due to its extinction

[green heart]

Troodon groups definitely exist

[charred spade]

"WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

• Troodon's last words as sleep paralysis demon

[green heart]

It’s ok for troodon to die fast, it grows in about half the time as the next largest carnivore, focus on not getting hit and take what you can when you can

[golden coral]

All playables requiring skill does not mean they're all perfectly equal though, just does not make sense to me that there would be "too easy" playables

[dusky surge]

your entire argument hinges on the provably wrong idea that troodon "doesn't exist"

[golden coral]

Not even hunting juvies in sanctuaries then?

[charred spade]

The father being killed by a random pachy, preventing a population of 20 troodons from nesting on the server, again causing their permanent extinction

[cosmic pelican]

Troodons are just drones manufactured by the government!!! Theyre not real

[green heart]

What imaginary, hyper specific scenarios are you inventing to defend your argument?

[golden coral]

Regrow, nest? You grow fast?

[charred spade]

These are not fictional scenarios, this is what I see in the game

[dusky surge]

And what I see in-game are Troodons

[green heart]

Your experience does not reflect the experiences of others

[charred spade]

and I see a pack of Indominus rexes dominating the South Plains like beings designed to murder any form of life

[dusky surge]

okay cera being overpowered has absolutely nothing to do with it tho

[charred spade]

me using a ptero, flying around the island feeding on fish, sailing for 5 Hours:

[green heart]

What does that have to do with this argument at all

[charred spade]

Ah, I just said my most common vision is exploring the corners of the island

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-zoidberg-dr-zoidberg-regret-ask-myself-the-same-question-gif-22625347

[green heart]

I’m heading to sleep, have a good one yall

[charred spade]

that I don't see any Troodon on the entire map

[green heart]

The small stealthy creature that’s hard to see can be difficult to see from far away, I agree

[charred spade]

I literally know where Troodon is because their "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAH" are inevitable.

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-avengers-endgame-i-am-inevitable-snaps-gif-14595800

[dusky surge]

The result of having the best broadcast in the game

[green heart]

I feel like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how troodon is supposed to be most efficiently played

[dusky surge]

that's basically the crux of the entire argument

[charred spade]

All the animals in the game have a gameplay based on instincts that make the player follow them to guarantee their survival, they all have their strengths but they do not depend on it completely, all the animals that do not meet this basic part implemented in the game end up being playable abandoned.

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-wut-stare-gif-13339857

[green heart]

Some players instincts suck, that is not the playable’s fault

I do have class later this morning, so Imma bounce, would love to continue this conversation at a later time, have a good one yall

[charred spade]

The game's instincts are extremely simple, Troodon is too, but it depends on a single main factor for its overall survival:
Groups

What do you think happens when a player, even if he does well against another dino, sees his stamina run out and sees that it is not possible to hunt alone, especially on an island dominated by large animals that probably know how to deal with the Troodon, which On top of that, are you alone without a group?

Abandonment and disinterest

It's a very simple concept

[slim dragon]

At this point deino is just a better troodon

More health, more damage, better swim speed

[charred spade]

This is what happens when you turn a player's interaction into something bad for himself, especially for those who test it several times and see the same results, insanity.

This same person played with other carnivores and will see that their gameplay is more rewarding than Troodon's

[dusky surge]

so how would buffing an optional mutation improve troodon's instincts? especially if the buffs you provided benefit solo play over group play?

[charred spade]

Deino is an animal made with a lazy gameplay style but that offers a good reward for little effort, in exchange for this he is an animal that suffered from hunger and a lack of diet in the past

[dusky surge]

longer venom time, less fall damage and a buffed damage resist mutation are all very solo-centric buffs

[slim dragon]

yes

[charred spade]

The mutation was just an idea to make Troodon stronger in the game, Troodon is the animal with the least rewarding gameplay among all the animals in the game.

Furthermore, it's strange that the mutations are the same for all the dinos in the game, which doesn't make sense

[dusky surge]

I think it makes perfect sense

Ensures no one dinosaur has an unfair advantage

(Or at least, it should, but certain combat mutations kinda ruin that)

[charred spade]

90% of mutations are useless or ignored because they do not have good long-term efficiency or use.

[dusky surge]

No, they're ignored because they're not insanely overpowered or meta

Speed mutations or damage resist mutations are a mustpick

[golden coral]

Is tactile endurance still a thing?

[dusky surge]

Tactical endurance and gastro regen are also exceptionally overpowered

[golden coral]

Ah, so it is then xD

[charred spade]

sir, ALL DINOSAURS ARE UNIQUE from each other in the game and they all have advantages and disadvantages against themselves what are you talking about wtf

[dusky surge]

Yes. It may have been nerfed though

[golden coral]

Oh?

[dusky surge]

Do you know what the current value for tac endurance is in EVRIMA? I forgot

[charred spade]

Cerato has a 15% water speed mutation, all dinos in the game have this mutation, if everyone uses this mutation, WHAT CHANGED?

[golden coral]

Nope, never got to use it much, you know how hard the stego nerfs hit me xD

[dusky surge]

The difference is not everyone will pick it

There's the capacity for variety

[charred spade]

Useless mutation, so why were you talking about unfair disadvantages and advantages?

[dusky surge]

It isn't useless though. It just isn't insanely overpowered

A 15% damage resist or 5% base movespeed buff are insanely strong though

[charred spade]

All animals have advantages for what they were designed for, their mutations are based on their needs, so it is unlikely that different species will use the same mutations for different needs.

[dusky surge]

Exactly

That's what makes them interesting

What may seem useless to one animal is valuable to another

[charred spade]

Sir, 0.05% of the gameplay of a land animal in the game is him crossing a river, it doesn't even make sense to have this mutation considering that no one is crazy about jumping into the water to gain more bleeding.

Useless

[dusky surge]

It isn't useless, it's been exceptionally useful for me as animals like tenonto, who greatly benefit from an extremely high swim speed and stam

You calling it useless proves how bad the metagame has corrupted your view on mutations

Mutations are designed to give you niche and unique buffs to certain gameplay styles

Not be flat buffs with very little else going for them

[charred spade]

Useless is something that doesn't have any practical functionality for your routine and needs, you won't use it so it's useless, it's not even useful for tenonto, it doesn't spend its gameplay in water and there are few places that have a safe point to justify the use crossing a Teno in water to another point in addition to gaining more bleeding

[dusky surge]

It is useful for tenonto

Also swimming doesn't do anything to bleeding idk what that's about

[charred spade]

97% of the water points in the game are easily accessible by some path, so u just loss stam and get more bleeding.

[dusky surge]

It costs less stam, time and blood for a tenonto to swim than take a bridge if the bridge is significantly out of the way

Not to mention how fast it is at swimming would allow it to make a good distance from its predators

[charred spade]

When entering the water, your bleeding starts to increase 5x faster, so much so that there is a mutation in which you slow down the bleeding gain in water by 25%

[dusky surge]

There is no such mutation and no such modifier lol

[charred spade]

or 3x I dont remember now

[charred spade]

exists

[dusky surge]

What is the mutation called

Because I can guarantee it doesn't exist

[charred spade]

lemme see

I think this is it

[dusky surge]

that's for moving faster through shallow water, nothing to do with bleeding

[charred spade]

I read it quickly and didn't even pay attention, I thought it was about bleeding, anyway in the water you bleed more than on dry land

[dusky surge]

i was QA and i've tested tons and this has never been the case in my experience

[charred spade]

This has always happened to me and others, it's very visible, that's why I avoid water when I bleed

[dusky surge]

thats more likely because bleeding is impacted by movement

and while swimming, you can't rest, stand still or walk, so you take the bleed of trotting/sprinting

[warm flax]

I think it also increases your speed traveling through mud pools
pretty useful if you decide to stay in the swamp

[obtuse ocean]

That mutation that makes you look around more when eating, also says you hear footsteps 50% better. Is that always or when you eat?

[keen plover]

always for the footsteps

[obtuse ocean]

Damn, thats not bad

[signal river]

we should add a new smell for when people are sitting in one spot for too long, to help combat afk growing, kinda how we have the pack smell 🙂 just a thought

[analog mirage]

And what about if I’m sitting to heal

You want to heal? Too bad the players can come kill you

[vale brook]

or nesting

would be awful if a scent marker showed exactly where your nest was to every animal

[distant torrent]

@molten fern wasn’t there already a universal stun duration nerf a while back? they really don’t need to be nerfed again. what needs to be looked at instead is the immunity window for stuns after already being stunned so you don’t get back to back stun locks like that

if stuns get nerfed yet again, other playables will also be hurt such as pachy (iirc omni gets thrown and knocked down when bonked. correct me if that’s wrong it’s been a while since I fought omnis with it) and carno (ram). it’ll also be hurting dibble and teno since it’d make punishment for mistakes a lot harder and a lot easier for the attacker.

tldr: stun durations are fine. the window of immunity to more stuns after being stunned needs to be lengthened

shortening the stun time also doesn’t fix the issue either because it’d still be doable with two or more people. lengthening the window of immunity is the best option

[dusky surge]

idk why we're acting like it's a diablo or teno issue when it's clearly a carno issue

its recovery is way too long. shorten that and all your woes disappear

[slim dragon]

Carno does stay idle for an ominously long time after getting up

[distant torrent]

it’s punishing the fast speedy playable for getting whacked by something it shouldn’t be hunting. lengthen the immunity window and it can get away

[molten fern]

yeah stun durations are fine on evertyhing else than carno. Carnos knock down get up is slower than on everything else allso reason why this is not an issue for other playables. Mayby carnos get up didnt get reduced to be on par whit other playables.

[molten fern]

and yes getting punished by a teno/dibble is fine but getting stunlocked to death aint.

[dusky surge]

stunlock lameo

[distant torrent]

lengthening the immunity window to stuns will fix that

ya still have the possibility of getting stunlocked if that’s not lengthened even if you make the stun shorter

[molten fern]

any reason why carno should be an exeption to the get up times other playables are at?

[molten fern]

no other playable suffers from the same issue

[distant torrent]

because it’s fast and has a considerable amount of health for its speed. ram makes it faster than its previous speed before the speed nerf

and because the only things that can knock it down are things it shouldn’t be interacting with other than steering clear from

[molten fern]

cera is alot harder to hit whit teno/dibble because of its agility

[distant torrent]

(currently)

cera isn’t as fast. it can be chased down by tenos. but with its current bile… you could make the argument for lengthening its knock down and I wouldn’t disagree lol

[molten fern]

so we should make the allready herbie dominant balance tip even more to their favor. Interesting🧐

you make a solid point

[distant torrent]

I wouldn’t call our current balance herbie dominant tbh. it’s pretty skewed in carnivore favor for specific playables, but ig skill plays a large part in that. 3 omnis can pin a teno but I haven’t seen that in my gameplay yet because all of the omni packs I’ve seen were very uncoordinated lol despite them having the capability to absolutely demolish teno

[heady zealot]

Nah I think troodon should have quieter footsteps and the venom hurt stamina for herbs and hurt nightvision for carnivores, if you hear several whoops at night you should be shitting your britches

[green heart]

I’d like troodon venom to increase stamina consumption on it’s victims, let the terror come from an inability to get away

[dusky surge]

why make the venom change per diet type lol

[molten fern]

stego/dibble/teno should never loose a figth/die unless vastly outnumbered.

and every coordinated group of omnis figth teno with bites only. pouncing just gives the teno a % chance to get a free kill on you.

[heady zealot]

Herbs will probably try to run, carnivores will stay to fight in my experience

[distant torrent]

that’s unfortunately not how it turns out all of the time because if the high capabilities of omnis and ceras

a good cera can give a teno a run for its money and a good pair can demolish a lone teno

3 omnis pin a teno

the other carnivores seem to be not overpowering currently. the problem child is just omni and cera atm

[dusky surge]

in my experience it's the exact opposite

[slim dragon]

Considering herbivores are mostly slower but larger than carnivores it's the opposite that is more likely to happen

[green heart]

Depends on the species

[slim dragon]

Troodon's bites need to drain stam on an envenomated target

[dusky surge]

carnos, dilos and omnis will just sprint away, while tenontos, dibbles and stegos will just beat you to death

[molten fern]

omni is borderline in a unplayable state you get dropped off of your pounce almost instantly and you drop rigth at your tagets feet. Even whitout this you have to have a MASSIVE skill issue to let 3 omnis pounce at the same time. Cera can DEFEND it self from a teno. you can come at me as a teno whit 10 ceras i can allways just choose to run away and hop on the nearest rock. Same cant be said when 10 tenos see a cera.

[dusky surge]

me when speed mutation lmao

also cerato can easily kill an overconfident teno

if anything, defending itself quickly turns into killing the teno the moment the teno pukes

[distant torrent]

it’s really not that bad for omni. yes you could be instantly bucked, but the bucker can also expend all of its stamina holding e and rng just decide the omni can stay latched like a tick lol

and cera demolishes dibble currently with the bile

[molten fern]

yeah everyone HAS to pick it in that speed range. Should not be a thing.

[dusky surge]

nah, rng buck is super cringe

[dusky surge]

speed muts should not be a thing, correct

[distant torrent]

yea it really is

[dusky surge]

rng buck sucks for literally everyone involved

[molten fern]

yes cera can defend it self

[dusky surge]

and hunt it

[molten fern]

that you cant do you are slower

[dusky surge]

one bite = vomit, then stam it down

ez

[molten fern]

the teno jumps on a rock and logs out

gg

[mint star]

it’d be nice if the diurnal and nocturnal mutations actually made you diurnal and nocturnal rather than just giving +5% speed

[dusky surge]

good for the teno, because it has nothing else it can do

thank god it has an out because otherwise it loses a playable to one bite

[mint star]

diurnal mutation giving you a wider scent range during the day or something while nocturnal gives a boost to clarity for night vision

[distant torrent]

personally I say we delete the +5% speed increase from all two of the mutations that have it

[molten fern]

yeah would be stupid if the herbivores would have to defend themselfs instead of having 100% safety during their lifes

[distant torrent]

and never reintroduce it again

[dusky surge]

it would be stupid if the carnivores had a tool to instantly ruin the herbivores core stats

oh wait

[molten fern]

can agree certain playables its just a forced pick

[molten fern]

1 cera has no shot 2 ceras can do it but dibble should win 3 and its a hard thing to survive as a dibble

[distant torrent]

it definitely is. that’s all I pick now

photo tissue, eat to heal (or convert damage to stam if you’re herbivore), and nocturnal

you’re shooting yourself in your own foot if you don’t pick those lol

[molten fern]

yeah thats pretty much the cookie cutter build nocturnal switching out for dmg mitigation on smaller playables

[distant torrent]

1 cera surprisingly does actually have a pretty good shot

and that’s because vomit cancels out attacks

charging dibble? hit first, and that dibble can’t finish its stun attack

its happened to my dibble and it hurt so much to experience

[dusky surge]

cerato is just absolutely the most obnoxiously designed playable in the entire game atm

[molten fern]

im on EU norden rigth now truly doubt that you would be able to do anything

[distant torrent]

ping has a lot to do with it too. my experience with the cera was a low and stable ping day on an official

I get like 130+ on eu servers lol it’s not happening without someone getting whacked or bit from 6+ feet away

[molten fern]

i can allso switch to NA no problem i get steady 70-80 ping rarely anyone is getting better on officials

[heady zealot]

I don’t get why it’s rng. This makes omnis just hunt smaller stuff or in a group hunt medium size stuff it can pin vs how a pack animal is actually supposed to fight