balance-feedback-discussion

[median pagoda]

still bad..

[dusky surge]

i cant see how it can be made better besides putting on animals that shouldnt be there to begin with lol

[slim dragon]

rework diets

nuke the shopping lists

[median pagoda]

cera would be a good start

[dusky surge]

cera? nah. Hell, I have no idea why omni has it

[median pagoda]

why not though

[dusky surge]

frankly i dont think cera should be on any diets besides like, cera

maybe deino

[median pagoda]

why shouldnt it i get you want it to be like real life but its a game it needs balancing and diets need to be more balanced

[dusky surge]

i dont want it to be like real life

[median pagoda]

well why shouldnt a cera be on carno diet then

[dusky surge]

i just think the animal designed to be a horrible, disgusting scavenger that steals your food and isn't worth fighting for said food should be a horrible disgusting scavenger that no one wants to engage, let alone hunt or eat

[median pagoda]

mate get a grip you sound foolish

[alpine plover]

How do they sound foolish

it makes sense if you ask me

[dusky surge]

how

[median pagoda]

makes sense to dense people#

[dusky surge]

its DESIGNED to be horrible, disgusting and not worth your time

that is literally the main things cerato has been advertised to be

the fact it's on omni's diet (especially considering it resists bleed, which is omni's main combat tool) is the actual foolish thing

[median pagoda]

well people still go at you no matter what weather stuff on ur diet or not so why does any of that matter

[dusky surge]

Under the same logic, why does it matter if cera is or isn't on a diet?

It has organs after all

[median pagoda]

the games dead due to people like you holding onto realism in a video game #

[dusky surge]

I literally do not care about realism lmao

Also... the game isn't dead lol

[cosmic pelican]

"Games dead" with almost 7000 players, impressive

[dusky surge]

I care about game design. And the animal designed to be a disgusting scavenger that isn't worth fighting for food should be exactly that

[median pagoda]

well yeah 7k people with brand new update...

[alpine plover]

Were you expecting like 50k or smth

[keen plover]

Concurrent. Timezones exist

[dusky surge]

Overall, there's likely around 20k active players, accounting for time zones

Rough estimate

[cosmic pelican]

Even before the update it was above 4k

[median pagoda]

werent expexting anything more than 5k

[cosmic pelican]

Far, far from dead

[median pagoda]

you're coping if you think the game isnt a dying breed

[slim dragon]

I feel like their responses are unrelated to whatever you're saying
Like they're pre-programmed

[cosmic pelican]

Then wouldnt it have died already by now

[hasty coyote]

niche game in heavy development doent have an insane amount of players... shocking

[dusky surge]

You're seething if you genuinely think the game is a dying breed

[slim dragon]

The game has been dying since 2016
It's a very, very long agony during which it has gained a lot of players
But it surely is dying

[median pagoda]

its bascially in the ground 7k players isnt impressive

[keen plover]

I mean it has grown year by year. Update 4 used to have like 3k people concurrent peak at times.

[dusky surge]

ONE DAY

ONE DAY THE GAME WILL BE DEAD

AND THEN YOU BOOTLICKERS WILL SEE

[slim dragon]

I'm not a doomer I'm being realistic

[dusky surge]

I TOLD you that it's a dead game. I told you EVERY YEAR for over 10 years that the game was dead and NOW WHO'S LAUGHING

[slim dragon]

I want this game to succeed more than everything, but I know it won't happen with this dev team who I cannot say the truth about or I'll get banned

[dusky surge]

Anyway this all stemmed from what, carno diets? And cera not being on there?

That's what's killing the game

[slim dragon]

definitely

[frail bobcat]

https://steamcharts.com/app/376210 look at the steamcharts, dingus

[graceful swallow]

I think its this way till more dinos are out and feel empty spots, the way you described cera should be when the game is finished imo

[hidden kettle]

gets bullied by herbies 😄
but ye its the bad boi comeing for ya food.
Carno as a small game hunter should not have it. still it got organs...which is diet anyways 😄

thing that kills the game is the playerbase itself for most games btw just saying 😄

[undone hollow]

raptor change seems like it has made troodon life esp hard

[shadow vortex]

@hazy echo what’s wrong with grazing? x) It plays the same role as the plants you’ve mentioned

[hazy echo]

not every herbi or omnivore can graze. (i.e. Bepi) and it only fills to 25%, and can only be done in grassy fields. Too many limitations. They should be able to fill their stomach's for long treks to migration zones

[shadow vortex]

I see… Welp, maybe devs will offer smth in the upcoming updates, but I didn’t have that much problems with current grazing system, tbh x)

[hazy echo]

I don't generally either, but playing in a No AI server as an Omnivore, it's very limiting. Even if they removed some of the restrictions from grazing, like letting it fill more than 25% or in any short grass

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message i dont think that making trot stamina threshold 90% is a good idea

in fact i would probably just not play and wait for a patch that changed that

[primal heart]

Carno charge is so useless

[mint star]

hes discovering the plot......

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

why would you want this. It makes cerato less unique, more of a generic hunter therapod and kinda contradicts the entire point of the post

"cerato is powerful with body buff. To counteract this, make it powerful all the time and remove this unique mechanic"

it literally just makes cera more boring

[west plank]

It is said that Ceratosaurus has strong armor, but the body buff is something that is rarely used because Tenonto and Carnos never prefer to fight next to the corpse because they know this, which makes the body buff dysfunctional. I think this should be regulated.

[slim dragon]

Cera doesn't need to chase them away from the corpse
Since the corpse is what cera is going after

[leaden remnant]

@smoky trout it is already done just wait for the next hordetest

if enough raptors are pouncing the prey and the prey is hurt enough, it will just fall down, be pinned and killed

[coarse blaze]

It's whole niche is to bully people off of corpses, it's a scavenger that gets absurdly tanky around bodies because that's what it's supposed to fit into. It's buff is incredibly situational and not OP.

[dusky surge]

then don't follow them. Force them to come to you. You have the corpse after all

[smoky trout]

i didnt even know ty for infroming me

[leaden remnant]

🫡

[hidden kettle]

exactly just eat it what they gonna do ? fight at corpse or starve ? 😄

[vague glen]

oh nice they delete all my dinos

[stark knoll]

@primal heart Stego takes extra damage from all attacks on the head, it's not because of teno's kick

[primal heart]

Stego head should accept x2 dmg

[keen plover]

It does

[primal heart]

But teno kick only does more than 200 dmg

[keen plover]

275n

[primal heart]

So teno kick actually does almost x3 dmg to stego head，and x2 dmg to other creature head

[distant torrent]

I think it’s recommended to not go in for a teno’s backside where your head is an easy target

[keen plover]

No

Tenos damage is 275n

Stegos head multiplier is 2x

2 x 275

Everything else apart from pachy and stego has a 1.5x multiplier

[primal heart]

Wonderful,than we should nerf teno damage again

275dmg with high bleed

cost 2% stm

[keen plover]

Increase the stam cost sure? But the damage and bleed is fine lol

[primal heart]

Just compare with carno charge
10%+ stm cost,225 damage 20s cooldown,no bleed no stun

[restive dragon]

Dilo really needs some love. It's such a struggle for them to get going due to bad bite force, low ai and bad spawn locations

[primal heart]

Mainly low ai,and seems some official sever have no seaturtles

[restive dragon]

I mean if ai was more reasonable most of this wouldn't be an issue. I've been trying to grow one all day and have found 3 deer in total.

[primal heart]

A little more ai wouldn't hurt.
there are a lot of player using multiple accounts to feed themself by new born stego suicide.Such behavior also imposes a burden on server

[restive dragon]

Like I'm fine if the ai isn't as much as it was before. But just a little more would be nice

[primal heart]

Yep,it will be nice to have more ai,it's a way for carnivores to stop thinking about destroying everything in sight.

[leaden remnant]

wat

but dilo is the most overtuned carnivore in the game

[restive dragon]

if that was true you'd see mega packs of them like we currently see with cera and omni

[primal heart]

Now I'm just starving, eating anything that moves

[leaden remnant]

there are megapacks of em

[restive dragon]

since the update I've yet to see a pack of more than 4

[leaden remnant]

ive only seen 1 cera megapack in months

[restive dragon]

where as east plains is infested with omnis and south plains is infested with cera

[leaden remnant]

also uhh it's faster than most dinos it can blind you take away your scent and commit rmb spam without even having to do anything to kill even a fg carno

it kills with the least skill required out of practically every other dino

[restive dragon]

oh i see you just hate dilos

[leaden remnant]

um how does that-

[restive dragon]

because you're implying that just because of their mechanic, they're overpowered

[leaden remnant]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

you do realize the term overpowered is based on mechanics

and stats

[restive dragon]

Besides I'm mainly talking about spawning in as a fresh dilo. That being said you can quite easily counter dilos mechanic if you just pay attention to the clones movements.

[primal heart]

Just stand with rocks or water or something,dilo can do nothing to you

[leaden remnant]

ummmmm the clones chase you faster than yourself and you cant get near them or they immediately bite you

[restive dragon]

bite them dog

they won't hurt you if you bite it

[leaden remnant]

sometimes works sometimes doesnt

these silly clones just do a 180 and bite you in da head like half the time

[leaden remnant]

yea im aware

[restive dragon]

sounds like a skill issue idk

[leaden remnant]

huh

seems like a skull emoji

[restive dragon]

They also have very low bleed, are pinnable by omnis forever due to their low weight, bad ambushing speed bad bite hit box I can go on

[leaden remnant]

um what is ambush speed

they are pinnable by raptors cause it is so dang op that it needs to fear something till it's fg

@cosmic pelican do you know the bleed stats of dilo

[latent bay]

They may very well be stupid

[leaden remnant]

probs is talking about legacy one at this point idek

[restive dragon]

no I'm talking about evrima

[halcyon elk]

Evrima doesn't have ambush speed

[restive dragon]

tbf I forgot it didn't. however that doesn't discount everything else

[slim dragon]

It does, it's just the exact same as normal running speed

[cosmic pelican]

Like its blood pool or the bleed it inflicts?

It deals average bleed with its bite (85 bleed dmg) and it has 700 blood

[leaden remnant]

i see

[restive dragon]

also, to emphasize I'm talking about a YOUNG dilo, not fg. That's what I have issue with

[leaden remnant]

that would make more sense

a young dilo, well, not really useful

only upside i'd say is the speed

[hasty coyote]

thats more about carno's charge being repeatedly nerfed and changed until its almost useless. Plus theres a very large difference between carno (the fastest thing in the game other than speed boost gali) using an aggressive move and teno using a defensive move.

[restive dragon]

Like rn I have a 15% carno. My bite force is 35. A 15% dilo has like half that.

[leaden remnant]

well yes but carno and dilo are very different

a 15% raptor has like no bite force

[restive dragon]

raptor grows a lot faster

[leaden remnant]

raptor and dilo growth is the same tho

raptor is 1h 42m dilo is 1h 43m

[restive dragon]

there's no way there's true

[leaden remnant]

it actually is 😭

[cosmic pelican]

It is

Ive been there, time it myself

[restive dragon]

well it feels a lot longer then idk

[cosmic pelican]

I timed every playable (I deeply regret it)

[leaden remnant]

HUH

how do you have time to

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah 🥲

[leaden remnant]

ohmylord

[cosmic pelican]

Nah its actually math

I just timed how much % i grew in 10 mins, after that it was easy math

[leaden remnant]

oh

[restive dragon]

anyway, my point being as a 15% dilo I can't really fight anything for food that is relatively my size and with ai being such a struggle rn trying to get diet as a dilo is a nightmare

[leaden remnant]

uh you can kill raptors

[restive dragon]

raptors are almost always in packs. On top of that when theyre fight able they're small and hard to see and can jump to safe spots and have a better turn radius then you

[leaden remnant]

yus

[restive dragon]

also

omni isn't even dilo diet

[cosmic pelican]

What I like to do when Im struggling is spawn in as a bigger species, kill that juvie and spawn back as the desired species I want.
Is it cheesy? Yeah. But at least its time efficient

[leaden remnant]

le rip

yknow what you can do at this point

spawn as stego jump off a cliff spawn as dilo get the diet and just afk grow or smth

[restive dragon]

I'd love to do that but stegs don't even spawn in the same areas as dilo

[leaden remnant]

try with smth in dilo's diet

[restive dragon]

I mean yeah that's what I've been doing but it's been a struggle

[leaden remnant]

2-3 carnos or smth idk

[cosmic pelican]

Iirc teno can, but species doesnt matter, worst case scenario you kill a few more juvis

[leaden remnant]

i see

[restive dragon]

teno is dots

[cosmic pelican]

Organs

[restive dragon]

can you get organs from a fresh spawn?

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah...

[restive dragon]

I've never tried

[cosmic pelican]

Every player dino has organs

[restive dragon]

I feel like I've tried before but it wouldn't let me. I'll see about doing it again

[cosmic pelican]

Probably 1 teno juvi is enough for your dilo

[tranquil haven]

anyone who has managed to get deino to south plains in the new update?

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message i kinda agree but also disagree, stego for example takes way too long imo to kill, but small things don't stand a chance, however with pounce to pin... i just dont know

[hidden kettle]

just me or does cera charge bite sometimes just normal bite dmg ?
i mean if charge bite is buffed to the big dmg by bodies it would be a welcome change tho, if not .. is it bugged somehow ?

[stark knoll]

Yea, that's a known bug

[hidden kettle]

well okay ty then 😄
so alt bites it is 😄

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message minor issue: tenos will become cera prey, cera is not a hunter

[dusky surge]

this dude has asked specifically for cerato buffs for like months now lol

none of which have it be better as a scavenger bully lol

[leaden remnant]

rip

[dusky surge]

he basically just wants hunter cera

[leaden remnant]

sounds bout right

[grand grail]

#balance-feedback message 4.5 we hope you're safe and doing alright. we miss you, please come home.

[coarse blaze]

I think cera is one of the most balanced carnivores we have right now, this is just my opinion though.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

lmao I actually tested hypsi and realised the charged jump cost MORE than I thought

[slim dragon]

Hypsi has only ever been receiving nerfs since its release

[dusky surge]

25% is nuts, even if it gets that regen boost

Also can't believe I snuck a stego buff under people's noses and they haven't made a scene yet

@iron wind do you mean carnotaurus charge?

[iron wind]

no the cerato alternative attack

m2 actually

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message i am scared of pachy stunning whatever it's bonking

just bonk once and leave

commit leg breeaking and dip

[dusky surge]

pachy is in a really bad spot atm, and frankly it needs to not be forced to trade with large animals

[leaden remnant]

thing is

if you don't force it to trade, pachies will hunt people like they used to

if you force it to trade, they will still hunt people but fail miserably

[dusky surge]

but it's only a 3 time stun

and it RELIES on fracture

[leaden remnant]

it's more than enough to cripple someone to oblivion

i just think it should be forced to bonk your leg once and leave

[dusky surge]

it really isn't given pachy's ram cooldown (which exists for no reason)

despite raptor not having a cooldown

[leaden remnant]

pachy bonk is so frickin clunky rn ngl

very few times ive played it, well, it just refuses to work half of the time

but seeing how pachy is a nightmare and can make you useless with one single bonk, imo it should bonk you just once and then leave you alone

[dusky surge]

which is the idea of making "fracture stun" a thing

because you are never guaranteed the leg break, and it means you can get a hit and not get screwed for self-defence

[leaden remnant]

well if you hit his leg and you charged it for enough time. leg or body break is guaranteed

by the way, you mentioned how pachy is in a bad spot, how is it exactly in a bad spot right now? yknow, what makes it suck?

[dusky surge]

raptor

raptor just invalidates it

the backpounce was insane for the matchup

[leaden remnant]

i see

[dusky surge]

a single pounce completely disables pachy's sprint

[leaden remnant]

im pretty sure that's intentional tho

[dusky surge]

yea, and it's insane

[leaden remnant]

don talked about small raptors (with enough weight) making herrera unable to climb

[leaden remnant]

i am so damn confused at this point

raptor in the isle is just buff it nerf it to the ground buff it nerf it to the ground buff it

make it useless make it great make it useless make it great and so on

but hopefully they change bucking so, yknow, things can buck and not pay with their life for that smh

[dusky surge]

i dont see raptor get made useless much at all tbh

usually it gets made godlike, people get used to it, it's balanced out, then it's powercrept again

[leaden remnant]

when they added the back and front checks, stamina, etc, raptor was just slammed on the ground like in ufc

[dusky surge]

even then, i don't think so. People were just used to ez facepounce gameplay

[leaden remnant]

that's fine, but at that time, raptor was just a joke

[dusky surge]

i genuinely didn't see that way

[leaden remnant]

i agree with making raptor a threat to others, not too much of a threat but also not a leech that gets 1 tapped

[leaden remnant]

i understand

[dusky surge]

i played omni, it was... mildly underwhelming

not trash tier like people were saying

[leaden remnant]

thing is, you'd expect a raptor to be powerful, to be able to cause severe damage by himself and not require unholy amounts of skill to do that

however when they changed pounce n stuff and made it way more difficult to land one, plus almost doubled growth time, that's when raptor really was slammed on the ground

very glad to see that dondi is giving raptor the spot it deserves

[dusky surge]

it's honestly concerning how strong it's being made imho

especially with pounce to pin

[leaden remnant]

i honestly think that's the way it should've always been

[dusky surge]

i personally dislike the mindset of "it should be overpowered"

[leaden remnant]

imo it taking 1h 42m to grow, if it has pounce to pin, backpackin, etc, is def worth it

[leaden remnant]

imma be honest i dont think it's overpowered

i think it's as strong as it should be

[dusky surge]

it's stronger than it should be imho, and only being made stronger

if bucking wasn't a worthless action, i'd agree that it's in a decent spot

[leaden remnant]

oh yeah... bucking

[dusky surge]

but as it stands, raptor is looking far too powerful

[leaden remnant]

for now you gotta rely on trees

trees quite literally disable the abilities of raptor so

[dusky surge]

which imho is a bad balancing factor

[leaden remnant]

i somewhat agree with that

[dusky surge]

you complain about dilo a lot, but the same thing where "you can only avoid it near water and cliffs" applying to raptor is equally bad

[leaden remnant]

explain that a bit further

i don't really get what you mean with that

[dusky surge]

dilo is busted, right?

[leaden remnant]

also i complain about it remotely killing you

[dusky surge]

and the only way you can avoid that power is relying on your environment

[leaden remnant]

pretty much

oh wait i understand now

however you seem to have forgotten one thing

i have said plenty of times that bucking is ass and i have even suggested ways to change it

because, simply, bucking is ass

[dusky surge]

raptor is equally bad imho. One is remotely killing you, the other you have zero viable counterattack to while its on you

[leaden remnant]

and the water and cliffs thing is a bug not a feature

[leaden remnant]

yeah and i dont deny it

as i said, bucking is horrendous and i wish it was better

i gotta say tho, pouncing takes more skill than spamming rmb without even approaching

[dusky surge]

i honestly don't know if it does lmao

[leaden remnant]

uh yes it does

only because you need to aim the pounce it already takes more skill

[dusky surge]

one requires at least you to bite the prey several times safely with a garbage turn radius. The other just needs you to look at an animal's sides and hold RMB

[dusky surge]

you need to aim dilo's bites too tho

[leaden remnant]

im saying when it's envenomated

[dusky surge]

which means you're aware it requires setup, more than a pounce does

[leaden remnant]

envenomating with dilo, meh

[leaden remnant]

if the prey is not aware, nah, but if the prey is aware, both take skill

[dusky surge]

so then there's no real issue

[leaden remnant]

getting behind or at the side of someone who's facing at you or baiting someone into giving you a free headshot

never said there's an issue with envenomating

im saying i dislike dilos being able to spam rmb without even getting close to you

[winter iris]

I’ve seen a couple videos of the new patch…quick question: can Omni now pounce for extremely long times causing the same intense bleeding it was already causing before pouncing for shorter times? Would that mean that if you’re pounced you’re basically dead?

[coarse blaze]

It's been able to hang on the sides of people for a while now since it's stamina update, I think they only added the pounce from behind this patch but I could be wrong.

But yes, for things like pachy one pounce can bleed you out.

[latent bay]

Could you like, do me a favor and repeat that last sentence? I think my eyes deceive me

[coarse blaze]

It's a great ✨ feature ✨ really.

God forbid you didn't knock that omni down your first try and don't have any trees to scrap it off close by, maybe try running to a tree while you waste your stamina as it weighs you down. Want a different flavor for that stamina loss? Try bucking instead! Don't worry though! By the time you've reached that tree the omni has been stuck to you like glue and the fight will be finished shortly. 👍

Alternatively if you didn't brush it off with said tree, the results would be the same. Very cool!

[latent bay]

Very fair very balanced

https://tenor.com/view/clapping-wow-wow-starts-clapping-gif-23651813

[coarse blaze]

I love how Omni really can't seem to pick a lane, it bounces from "takes some thought" to "takes no thought"

[shadow vortex]

What if devs would also add a different ‘bucking’, which could be used in critical situations? 🤔 Like, falling to the ground and rolling over, throwing all the omnis off and damaging them if they didn’t dismount before? With a higher stam cost and drawbacks such as the need to get up

[coarse blaze]

So you could lose stamina faster and get pounced again?

And bit the entire time getting up? Nah.

[shadow vortex]

Also, maybe stunning them just like the trees do

[coarse blaze]

Chances are you'd do that once, be out of stamina and if said pounce-to-pin is stamina based, die shortly after.

[shadow vortex]

Nope, you’ll have the time to bite that one annoying pest

[shadow vortex]

I’m not saying that the stam cost should be 90% xd

[coarse blaze]

You didn't clarify, you just said "higher stamina cost" when bucking itself is already pretty high

[shadow vortex]

Also I mean that you can stun multiple omnis if they are not aware, so it’s kinda risky for them

[coarse blaze]

I mean you're getting up while their stunned from the sound of it in your situation

So it seems somewhat useless stun wise

[shadow vortex]

Bucking takes around 3% per second, so yeah, I didn’t clarify but thinking of 90% is also a bit off imho xd

[latent bay]

Couldn't you just pull a saurian and make pouncing a mini-game of keeping a bar in the center of a graphic to stay on, but it gets increasingly harder the more the pounced player tries with actions beyond bucking

[shadow vortex]

Nice idea, some skill check for raptor players

[coarse blaze]

I've had that thought before but it might be too "arcadey" for the devs.

I'd just rather buck you know - buck them off. Not drain you and the raptors stamina, it doesn't drain that much for them anyhow and it just drains you really. I'd rather it forcefully fling them off within 3 seconds and take stamina, that way both parties use a nice chunk of stamina.

Raptor needing to fully pounce again takes a hefty chunk, forcing them off takes a chunk, both parties are fighting for it.

[shadow vortex]

Welp if they want a strong mechanic they also need to add some difficulty to it I guess… Avoid ‘arcadey’ things just because they ‘don’t fit into the realism’ may play a cruel joke with balance

[coarse blaze]

Right now omni can just stick to you, you'll run out of stamina bucking before they fall off via full stam drain 99% of the time.

[latent bay]

...how is that arcadey when it's potentially one of the more realistic implications of pouncing?

The bar represents your grip on an animal, and the animal you're gripping on-to can influence rhe difficulty it takes for you to keep your grip (or in this case, the bar in the center)

If it's the concept of the mechanic itself, we have "trip balls" dilo and asthma carno (ok this one's a joke), it's fine

[shadow vortex]

Yep, so if the prey bucks that indicator flinches more and more

[coarse blaze]

That'd be a question for the developers, I did say "might be" afterall.

That same idea has been expressed for things like pins/lunge previously.

[latent bay]

I mean the developers aren't here so might as well discuss it amongst ourselves

[dusky surge]

I would honestly prefer, rather than taking just your entire stam, add a "stability" bar which is lowered by

• Sprinting while being pounced
• Attacking while being pounced
• Bucking (ofc)

Of course, bucking would be the most effective

[shadow vortex]

Stability bar that Dinoadam meant?

[coarse blaze]

Dinoadam from what I took from that meant more of a "tug-of-war" sort of mechanic; more of less what I got from it.

[latent bay]

Yeah that

[coarse blaze]

Supposedly I've been told those aren't super easy to make.

[latent bay]

How tough could it be?

[coarse blaze]

I'm not a game developer nor a coder, couldn't tell you.

[latent bay]

Wai that sounds messed up

[shadow vortex]

Then Idk what stability bar means oh.. Yeah I probs will give a weird example, but I understood it as something in like “fishing” games

[latent bay]

Not quite what I meant, I mean like... TI has added tougher/plans to add tougher, right?

So would a pounce bar really be comparatively more difficult?

[coarse blaze]

I again, could not tell you. It's not something I'm knowledgeable enough on to confidently discuss.

[latent bay]

That's fair enough I suppose

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message minor issue here

very very minor

which is that herbi abilities and raptor pounce have nothing in common

pachy bonk makes you useless if it even hits

stego swing literally kills you

teno attacks do an insane amount of damage

whereas pounce is literally the only reliable way a raptor has to kill you

not only that, but it takes a few full stamina bars to actually bleed someone out instead of just 1-2 hits

the solution aint giving a cooldown to raptor the solution is making bucking useful

[dusky surge]

Not a fan of the "skillcheck" thing

[dusky surge]

I am :D

[latent bay]

Is there like a particular problem with it fundamentally or is it like personal preference thing

[dusky surge]

just hate skillchecks in games. DbD taught me how garbage they are

they don't feel like skillchecks at all, ironically

[latent bay]

In what way are they garbage, especially over the current pounce which is just "hold a button do nothing more"

Would a tug-of-war system not make the current pounce more engaging on both sides allowing both pouncer and pouncee to feel like they're doing something meaningful beyond just holding a button down and hoping to a couple pantheons worth of gods?

[coarse blaze]

But you didn't hit me with "I'm a game dev" within your first few replies.

Or "As a game dev"

[dusky surge]

Frankly, I find skillchecks nothing but padding

[latent bay]

So then how do you make pounce more than just "hold button pray to god"

[dusky surge]

I'd rather add a "brace" system.

Holding LMB while pouncing means you claw and tear, at the cost of losing stability to bucking much easier

Not holding LMB means you do not attack at all, preparing you for bucking, at the cost of not doing any damage

Skillchecks are just such garbage imho

It's not knowledge skill as much as "I can react better than you" skill

[latent bay]

That's fair. Would anything influence the pounce beyond bucking, one which would add something further for the pouncee to do?

[frail bobcat]

formula 1 drivers are gonna be op in the isle

[hasty coyote]

yeah pachy v omni is in a horrible spot because whoever hits first wins. Like unless the raptor throws after hitting a side pounce or the pachy was right next to a tree, it wins. Pachy hits omni once and either makes pounce near useless or makes it unable to fight back.

This is why you have both sides saying the matchup is awful and their dino should be buffed or the other nerfed.

[rigid tulip]

Stam loss of bucking off an omni pack while fighting u (if bucking is fixed) could essentially never be less than just running to a tree.

[rigid tulip]

1 pounce isnt enough to bleed bruh. Pachy has more margin for error

I think the group pin system is cringe and I also think bucking should be significantly buffed- however omni without these aspects is a completely fair dino that involves high risk and im tired of pretending its not

Hit tree? U dead. Get stunned by any stun ability currently in the game? U dead.

can the same risks be said for other dinos in its tier for hunting? Dilo possibly yes, though it can survive more stun combos

Pounce is a crazy combat tool- you are able to do damage without taking it, however I think that its completely beyond fair if you are next to favorable terrain or have a stun that can disable/one shot combo such as teno, pachy, carno

The other day my friends and I fought a cera who literally could never hit us even in an open plain. None of us got hurt even a little by him. Then he runs over to an incline next to rocks and a tree and 2/4 of us die and we ended the hunt

With all this being said, massively buff bucking, and also I hope group pinning doesnt get added to the game

I miss tap pounce omni on spiro

[hasty coyote]

If you have admin on a server then I'm down to test it, but from what I have seen, a single pounce with bucking can kill a pachy if it moves too much, and if it stays still it will lose a majority of its bleed. Though I will agree pachy has more margin of error because trees and rocks exist.

However, I think the fight as a whole needs to be looked at because its abysmal that a single hit can determine who dies, especially since they both take nearly 2 hours to grow.
Pachy just needs fractures to be less of a death sentence so it can actually have an even power distribution (rather than like 90% of its power budget being used by leg fracture).
Bucking needs something to prevent either omnis having enough stam to 1-shot things or not having enough stam to kill things at all. Best one I can think of is making bucking force omnis to dismount after a few seconds.

[hasty coyote]

inclines do ruin pounce and ram, that definitely needs to be fixed

[rigid tulip]

Agreed on the bucking. I was discussing this situation in terms of what I typically see which is just using trees. Every player knows bucking is trash so they generally dont do it, I dont think that’s really a way to judge the matchup as a result yk

If an omni is on you for more than like 3 seconds either your in a really unlucky position or you are playing the game wrong

[coarse blaze]

It actually is, a solid pounce for 5-6 seconds will bleed it out. Bird has a video on it as well and I've personally experienced it.

I even sat after the fact and still died via bleed.

I completely agree with the previous person though and that bucking should force omni off after a handful of seconds, I'd be fine if it took stamina then because the omni would need to repounce.

[west plank]

Tennontosaurus need a Stam debuff #balance-feedback message

[dusky surge]

Stop

[west plank]

@dusky surge no Tenonto is broken it can use 55-60 kick only one full Stam this is insane.

[slim dragon]

Tell that to the animals who do NOT have limited attacks

[dusky surge]

ceratosaurus is broken it can use infinite charge bite only one full stam this is insane.

[west plank]

Ceratosaurus is not broken. Compared to Carno and Tenonto, he has the least health and the slowest speed. That's why, after getting 1 kick from Tennontosaurus, he gets stun and eats the 2nd kick, and his health drops below 50%, which reduces his damage. Do you think this is broken? Tennontosaurus has very powerful abilities in this battle, it both stuns and hits 275, it has excellent bleeding and its kicking speed is ridiculous, and its tail knocks Ceratosaurus directly to the ground. It's ridiculous that these only cost 2-3%, it's at least 1%. an increase is needed.

[dusky surge]

Ceratosaurus has very powerful abilities in this battle, it both causes vomit and hits 350 damage, it has excellent bleeding, and it's lack of stam cost is ridiculous

[west plank]

Cerato's Max damage is 345, even if it deals this damage to Tenonto, Tennontosaurus may have a chance to absorb this damage 3-4 times because, as I said before, it has more health and can still deal enough damage, this is not a fair fight. In addition, he needs to hit his head at least twice to induce vomiting, considering that this is almost impossible in war. We see that Tenonton is better. Let me briefly summarize it for you: When Cerato hits and runs away only once, he takes at most 32% of Tenont's health, and when Tenonto gets the opportunity to kick twice, he takes 50-60% of Cera's health. It is obvious that this is not fair.

[dusky surge]

You don't need to hit the head at all to induce vomiting

Also, tenonto is not better. Ceratosaurus has the agility required to bait out and then attack tenonto due to its lengthy attack cooldowns. It's literally a matter of skill

[west plank]

There is no need, but there is no guarantee of hitting the body 4 times, so Tenonto is better.

[dusky surge]

There is no guarantee tenonto hits you once

Cerato's attacks are much easier to land

[west plank]

Yes, it is mostly a matter of skill, but two people who know these two dinosaurs very well know that Tenonto wins with a clear result. Because Tenonto is faster, whenever Cera opens charge, he bites him in the tail and cancels his charge ability. This is where Cerato becomes helpless.

[dusky surge]

tenonto doesn't win with a clear result, because i've seen ceratos win against skilled tenontos

in fact, cerato is by far one of the best animals at 1v1ing tenos atm

[west plank]

By playing an average game of Tenonto, they may not be able to kill people like me who use Cera's agility well, but you have a 10/1 chance against those who know Tenonto very well. I have said this by playing enough.

[west plank]

It is one of the best, but once ıt gets stun, it reaches the unforgivable end. It only has one chance.

[dusky surge]

well, it's also not meant to hunt tenonto, so that's pretty impressive

[cobalt dagger]

@charred idol
I have noticed, when another player's ping is bad, YOU get punished for it.
You could be miles away, but if their game is lagging so bad that you're frozen, standing still on their screen - and they bite your face on their screen, and bite the not-moving version of you - then you'll take the hit. I am not sure exactly if it works quite to this extent but so far as I've found in PVP servers and with specific individuals/on call pvp'ing people it seems to work this way.

I believe, it is not the hitbox you are experiencing, but another player's bad ping. I still agree with you that this should be fixed, though. You shouldn't be punished because someone from another country decided to play on that particular server.
It's worth noting that there is downsides to bad ping too, in as much as they also may look slower or frozen on your screen as well- Deino and Stego preform very well on bad ping because they can usually take a hit or two and are typically lethal when they land a hit back. Meanwhile dilo and omni and troodon suffer from bad ping as they don't preform as well in a face-tank.

Bad-ping carnos see quite a bit of success due to the fact that they can face-tank a fair few things and the things they can't, their ping does not prevent them from running away from with sheer speed.

[charred idol]

Well damn. That does feel unfair either way though yeah. If people have that horrible ping and get rewarded for it.. No wonder people lag switch..

[cobalt dagger]

*Only rewarded if they play a creature who benefits from it. But yeah, basically still rewarded.

[charred idol]

yeah i had it before with someone who played a dilo. I clearly hit them but the game said no and I got hit 3 seconds later while watching them run in circles, jittering

[west plank]

Tennontosaurus is not only strong for Ceratosaurus, it has the potential to kill Deinosuchus and Stegosaurus on land alone, in short, to prevent this, it will be enough for it to kick 40 instead of 60 at full stamina, so 3-4% cost for kick and tail will be enough.

[leaden remnant]

teno stands zero chance against deino or stego

ive been spam kicked as a deino by tenos and i was completely fine

in fact 4 of them kept kicking me for 2 mins while i was fighting them on land

result all of them dead and i was on yellow 🤷‍♂️

and if you die to tenos as a stego, you have a horrendous skill issue

[dusky surge]

in what universe is a teno killing a deino

unless the deino is either a baby or literally asleep at the wheel

[dusky surge]

honestly, dying to tenos as stego is far more believable tbh

[leaden remnant]

trust me when i say it happens, but you have a horrifying skill issue if that happens

[dusky surge]

teno honestly is one of the best stego killers in the game, no joke

not a skill issue tbh, it's genuinely something people do because how effective they are at it

[leaden remnant]

well, yknow... just swing at the teno

it's not difficult to land a hit on a teno with that long ass tail

[west plank]

It can only hit the tail this is not good for the stego.

[leaden remnant]

no sir

[keen plover]

If you suck you get folded tbh. But the only time I've died to tenos as a stego was on a test server and they need like 5+. It was pretty overwhelming

Not really a teno issue though? It has the hp and damage to drop a stego in herds.

If anything its a stego problem lol

[west plank]

I have a lot of reasons therefore tenonto needs this Stam cost

[leaden remnant]

um

no

@robot

@tight cove sorry ping didnt work

🫡

[dusky surge]

thank god dondi finally said it

[leaden remnant]

yes

[keen plover]

LETS GOOO

[dusky surge]

im so sick of the "ambush hunter carno that is meant to kill tenos and ceras" thing that people have been spreading

my boy is a BULLET TRAIN BABY

[keen plover]

#isle-discussion message

[dusky surge]

HE'S MAKING ALL THE RIGHT CALLS BABY

The speedsters of The Isle have needed love for some time

[west plank]

i agree that

[dusky surge]

I'm excited for "terror of the plains" small game hunter

It'd be interesting to see it hunt our many smaller/juvi residents, while avoiding things like ceras, tenos or diablos

[leaden remnant]

yessir

[keen plover]

Going raptor hunting again

[dusky surge]

And he even confirmed a beipi buff my lord

[keen plover]

Cera as well. Now all that's left is pachy lol

[dusky surge]

God I hope

[leaden remnant]

cera?

i haven't heard of it, waht's going to happen with it?

[dusky surge]

Something about not chuffing at its own group, or when it's a juvi, but still getting the buff

[keen plover]

#isle-discussion message

and what wave said

[leaden remnant]

nice

[west plank]

cera's balance with carno should be like legacy

[keen plover]

Where the carno won?

[west plank]

There is no cera in carno's diet, so carno should not be easily contaminated with cera.

[dusky surge]

how does that make any sense

[hidden kettle]

well carno should not really consider picking a cera for a meal as "small game hunter" 😄

[tight cove]

Thanks for the ping bro, that’s awesome to hear. 😎😂

[leaden remnant]

yes

[tight cove]

Finally a cera buff, it couldn’t survive carno unless by a river 😭

[west plank]

Yeah finally

[tight cove]

@gray trench how would it be op? In my post I made sure I said you can only get stun 3 times max because rn if you hit a carno for example as a pachy you can still get bit, increasing pachys animation speed won’t do anything because you’ll still get bit most likely unless you hit someone from behind, and even then it won’t matter because even rn if you hit someone from the back you won’t get hit.

Pachy shouldn’t get punished for successfully landing it’s attacks

[vast fossil]

I think to balance your stun ability there should be a resistance/stun bar instead, understandably a pachy with its hard head can undoubtedly stun and even break bones, it has to be known that dinos also have way tougher bone and skin, closer to armoured leather and depending the dino, some probably won’t be affected at all

Or for a stun to work you have to hit specific areas or reach certain criteria, like landing a head shot while at full speed or above a certain speed threshold. Or land three consecutive hits on the same spot at ramming speed

Either way I don’t agree with adding a unique ability to a dinosaur that makes it OP unless you do it for others, like crocs should have bone break, carnos already have speed, raptors should have lacerations making it harder to heal type of stuff

[torn egret]

If you get hit as a pachy doing a ram, you’re doin it too late. Let it loose 1/2 - 1/4 sec earlier.
It’s a server registration issue

I started hitting a bit earlier than I normally would and it’s getting the stun through. Plus it should only hit your tail

[hidden kettle]

so why should a Pachy want to hit / stun / break a carno 3 times ?
thought its supposed to break a leg and disappear instead of stun bonk a carno into atoms 😄
i think tradeing a bite for a broken leg is not a bad deal by knowing it will lead to safe survival

[dusky surge]

because having to trade damage to survive is not ideal for survival

[torn egret]

But it’s mostly cause players like to kill not survive.
Can’t balance combat if everyone only wants to kill each other.

Pachy should not be a big fighter. Hit and run away. But 5 of them will ruin your day lmao

Btw, love pachy. Just wish it was more fun outside combat too,

[leaden remnant]

i agree, that's why i don't want stun back

it forces you to bonk and leave instead of ruining everyone's enjoyment cause they can't fight back

[halcyon elk]

What about stun on the initial fracture?

[leaden remnant]

no, just no

[torn egret]

What are you talking about, the only fighting a pachy should do is bonk and run lmao. I absolutely think there should be stunts, but it should be dependent on how charged that ram is. I think scaling it to something similar as a cera change bite might be worthwhile. To prevent any spamming, etc..
The pachy is not a brawler

[leaden remnant]

it allows you to one by one bonk someone to oblivion

[torn egret]

If you’re worried about the Pachy, it’s because pachy are glass cannons. They need the extra protection. The problem comes in when there’s five. In which case you can have a cool down to the sun. But the problem is that people are using the stunt to just kill things instead of using it to run.

[leaden remnant]

yes

[hidden kettle]

fighting a 1.8tons carni aint a good survival strat as well dont ya think ? 😄

[torn egret]

So just put a cool down on how fast someone could be stunned. Like three seconds

[leaden remnant]

uh

three seconds?

[torn egret]

If the package doesn’t have the stun, what is the point?

Pachy^ using voice to text lol

[leaden remnant]

well my point is that if it gets any sort of stun, people will go back to griefing entire servers

they'll be immortal

even if it is, yknow, 1 single stun that requires you to be fully charged

[hidden kettle]

this!

[dusky surge]

when its your only option, its your only survival strat, so yes, it is a good strat

[leaden remnant]

and i personally do not want pachies doing that thing again

[dusky surge]

it isn't at all the same though

6.5 pachy had stun on every single ram

[leaden remnant]

3-5 free bonks without punishment

[dusky surge]

5? No.

[leaden remnant]

3-5 bonks is enough to kill or completely incapacitate someone

[dusky surge]

3 at most.

[hidden kettle]

pachy already is strong and very capable of defense now i dont see it needing more 😄

[dusky surge]

Pachy is literally one of, if not the worst herbi atm imho

[leaden remnant]

depends on the amount of pachies in the group

[torn egret]

Not really, cera doesn’t get stunned , carno just runs away or over them lol, like you should be cautious attacking anything. Any Dino gets abused lol. Enough cera and the world is awful, too many carnos kill off other predators. It’s a give and take imo. Everything needs to just be good at 1-2 things to make it fun.
30 tenos is worse than 30 pachy lol.

[dusky surge]

@keen plover can testify (although most likely they are asleep)

[hidden kettle]

pachy is stronger than most think imo

[dusky surge]

pachy is weaker than most think, imho

[torn egret]

Pachy is good with coordination. It’s more pack involvement than raptor imo.

[leaden remnant]

nothing but things smaller than the pachy itself get stunned

[dusky surge]

pathetically low damage, no stuns on larger creatures, forced to trade with cera/carno, low speed for its size, required chargeup, forced cooldown on attack, poor trot speed, etc

[leaden remnant]

(knocked down)

[dusky surge]

which is what makes it poor imho

[torn egret]

But I don’t think every Dino needs to be “good” solo. Troodon is a good example. It needs more than 1 to be viable and that’s why few people play it.
“If” more people were encouraged to spawn with other groups or nest, I don’t think it would be as bad to have pack dependent dinos
Cause if something is good solo, it will be monster in a pack

[dusky surge]

Troodon does not need more than 1 to be viable

[leaden remnant]

uh troodon is great by itself

[dusky surge]

I play Troodon a lot, and I play it solo. It does not need anyone else for viability

Not a single animal in this game should be reliant on a pack

[torn egret]

Troodon is great and fun by itself, but it’s way more fun when you play with a pack because you can take out bigger targets. But once again, the Tron is so much fun and it’s great because it’s so dynamic and it’s niched, and everyone’s complaining about the paki, losing or having any kind of stun.

[dusky surge]

Or a herd, who cares what you call it

[torn egret]

The problem is the paki is too big to do much with it in terms of solo survivability, because it is too dangerous once it becomes packed up.

[dusky surge]

Pachy, atm, is bad

I'd still argue it's our worst herbivore

[leaden remnant]

uh solo pachy is fine imo

provided that you dont meet a full raptor pack or smth along the lines yknow

[tropic horizon]

2 full grown raptors kills pachy with no counter from the pachies side. And two raptors is like, insanely common to run into and that’s honestly the main thing that holds it back. Also gotta mention how pachy going up the tiniest incline gets stuck in place , does no damage, and leaves itself wide open for predators to tear to shreds.

[torn egret]

1v1, pachy will struggle with bigger things, cera, carno etc.
But no one is complaining about Dryo not being able to backflip kick a dilo into outer space lol.
Things in nature will be stronger or weaker. So to try to balance it out as an individual vs how it as a species survived is kinda impossible lol.

Weaker things pack and herd. Survival of the fittest or the most lol

Encourage more group play across the board, and then it’ll work out imo

[dusky surge]

Because dryo has the speed, stam and agility to evade

[leaden remnant]

bonk

[dusky surge]

What the hell is this comparison lol

[tropic horizon]

Ah yes, the classic “just herd up” argument

[tropic horizon]

Can’t bonk if one holds its pounce on ya, you just have to sit there and accept your fate

[dusky surge]

"No one is complaining about the amazingly evasive animal not being able to kick a dilo so hard it dies despite the fact that a pachy sucks against animals of a similar size ratio and can't escape nearly as well as dryo therefor womp womp ur wrong"

[leaden remnant]

yeah im aware, im just saying that for now, bonk

for now till it gets changed, if it even does

[dusky surge]

Wrong, wrong and wrong

[torn egret]

Is this a survival game or a Dino fight game lol.

[tropic horizon]

Just herd up wave

[dusky surge]

No universe should "encourage group play" be your survival strat

[leaden remnant]

both

[dusky surge]

Because that strategy encourages the opposite

[leaden remnant]

a survival game by nature is practically a fighting game 🤷‍♂️

[keen plover]

hi

[tropic horizon]

Animals shouldn’t NEED to group up to survive

[dusky surge]

Who the HELL is going to play an animal that sucks ass solo?

Additionally, if everyone is asking "Who the HELL is going to play an animal that sucks ass solo?", where are you going to find a single person to play with, given that no one wants to play the animal that sucks ass solo?

The answer is, obviously, no one will want to play it, meaning there will be no one to herd up with, meaning no one will want to play it, meaning no herds, meaning no survival

[keen plover]

Anyways Pachy doesn't really struggle with carno and cera.

Dilo is very manageable. The problem playable is omni, which imo should not even be a worry for a pachy if perfectly healthy. Of course a group of them should be scary, but if a good solo pachy sees an omni it shouldn't even really care imo.

[torn egret]

Make up your mind cause you can’t run around complaining about pachy stun cause it was to give them survivability in a survival game, so when players use it to fight and kill things like it’s a fighting game.
Things should be “fun” solo. Not able to win every fight per se. that’s why dryo is never played and also never complained about lol.

[tropic horizon]

And the argument of “stick to other herbivores” just proves that the animal is so bad that it needs to depend on the existence of another animal to live

[keen plover]

The problem is mainly down to bucking and pounce bugs. Also the fact that omni can slow down pachy which sucks.

Omni also tanks a bit too many hits for my liking. Mainly down to how strong fractures are though, but still.

[leaden remnant]

um

hits as in bonks or bites

[dusky surge]

I play dryo solo. It's fun. It can SURVIVE on its own

[keen plover]

pachy hitting the omni

[leaden remnant]

bonks or bites tho

[tropic horizon]

I don’t want pachy to be able to solo absolutely everything I want it to be able to actually survive encounters cause rn 2 raptors kill 1 pachy most of the time

[torn egret]

Literally most herbi species irl needed herds lmao

[dusky surge]

yes but uh

this is not irl. At all

[keen plover]

the htk should be like 3 on omni instead of the current 4 for pachy imo

[leaden remnant]

it takes 2 bonks to the head to kill a raptor

and like 15 tail bonks to kill a raptor

[keen plover]

3

[leaden remnant]

i just got killed by a pachy with 2 head bonks

[dusky surge]

you need to make sure your HUMAN playerbase doesn't immediately pick the easier, stronger and better carnivores, because fun fact, animals are born into their life, whereas in The Isle, humans get to crunch numbers and pick the animal they want to play

if you make every herbivore herd reliant, CONGRATULATIONS, you just killed any chance of herbivores

[keen plover]

That can't be right? Pachys ram before brought omni to 58% health on a head ram

[leaden remnant]

well it happened

[tropic horizon]

Nobody is tryna argue this being irl rn. Also solitary herbs still survive alone pretty effectively irl. Although technically not a herb, anteaters are solitary most of the time and are like, among the most feared animals in their ecosystem.

[keen plover]

Also the damage is meant to be 125n unless it was buffed?

[dusky surge]

Unfortunately for us all, God doesn't give us free pickings of whatever species suits our fancy most

That's a liberty provided by The Isle

[keen plover]

either way if that's the case, then good. Pachy should be dropping omni in 2 head hits imo

[leaden remnant]

i have to agree with that ngl

the thing is, about raptors disabling pachies

with a single bonk, a pachy disables and dooms a raptor, so ain't it fair that 1 raptor can disable the pachy while the other one kills him?

[tropic horizon]

Also moose just, exist. And are completely fine solo so the whole “herbis need herds to live irl!” thing doesn’t hold up super well

[dusky surge]

one raptor can disable the pachy

[leaden remnant]

yes but you need another to kill him

wait damn it i said it wrong

[dusky surge]

and at least that raptor can still good damage with the bite damage amd bleed

[leaden remnant]

fixed

[dusky surge]

pachy's bite damage sucks, its trot speed sucks, its ram distance sucks

[keen plover]

no

[leaden remnant]

and why not exactly

[dusky surge]

i would rather be a fractured raptor than a pounced pachy every day of the week

fractured raptor is literally faster than pounced pachy

no joke lol

you are faster, more agile and do more damage than a pounced pachy while your leg is fractured

[keen plover]

1 bonk can disable an omni, but an omni player can choose to ignore that matchup by running away. Pachy is forced into it

[dusky surge]

^ that too

[tropic horizon]

1 raptor pouncing a pachy is pretty much the equivalent of having all 3 fractures applied to that pachy at once but somehow worse

[dusky surge]

Basically, yup

[leaden remnant]

i see i see

[torn egret]

You can’t balance a survival game if you say we aren’t even gonna try to make it realistic at least a bit 😂
Agree to disagree at this point.
But I don’t like the “Oh, solo play or no play,” mindset cause that’s dumb.
Then never pack with another carnivore again because you should do it solo.
You can’t balance the pachy so it can 1v1 everything.
Because then it’s a Dino fight game.
Would like to see some more noncombatant stuff across the board

[dusky surge]

You can and you should

In no universe should you put aside balance for realism

Especially in a game where people's irl time is on the line

If I spend literal real life hours on a thing, I expect that time respected

[keen plover]

Pachy shouldn't 1 v 1 everything lol and it can't. It's quite literally capped at carno

[tropic horizon]

You balance pachy so that it has the capacity to survive any encounter as long as it uses its skill properly.

[keen plover]

Any larger and the pachy can't fracture you

[leaden remnant]

i honestly feel like there's a small issue here

playing solo should be fine

however in packs, the dino becomes way more viable

[torn egret]

lol then it’s arcade not survival.
If you want a chiller experience there are other games for that.
I preferred the game when they went through the super harsh thirst and hunger and stam drains. I like the difficulty of survival, but no one plays it like such. So we will prolly not see eye to eye on most of the stuff

[leaden remnant]

so if everyone packs, you are forced to pack as well

[dusky surge]

It's not arcade to make a game respect your time

[tropic horizon]

Survival games are also not always realistic so idk what that point is.

[leaden remnant]

or, well, not forced, but it's more dangerous because of that

[dusky surge]

It's called balancing out your game. What is this logic?

[torn egret]

That’s what I mean. 2 dinos better than one. If more people got benefits from nests and packing or were encouraged idk what that looks like tbh.
But that would make the need to balance solo not really a problem

[tropic horizon]

Game is balanced?=Arcade game somehow trust me bro

[torn egret]

Lmao ikr

[dusky surge]

You're literally agreeing with a strawman of yourself lol

[leaden remnant]

i mean, yeah, 2 dinos better than one

[torn egret]

Ok, well at least I don’t have to insult people to make myself feel better about a different opinion. L

[leaden remnant]

it's impossible to make a solo playable be as strong as a pack, so the just get in a pack argument actually works

[dusky surge]

What

[leaden remnant]

the game is desgined in such a way that a solo playable will be not as strong as a pack anyways, there is pretty much no "fix" to that

[tropic horizon]

???

[torn egret]

That’s what I mean. But I got no good answer to how that’ll play out. Players are players.

[dusky surge]

The general consensus is "maybe stop making pachy such raptor fodder and make bucking actually worh your stam" what is the problem with that

[leaden remnant]

so if we were to use the pachy vs raptor example, it's either force raptor to land around 10 hits on the pachy while the pachy can just land one, or make it whoever lands wins first

thing is, instead of just nerfing raptor, we can change bucking

so that, yknow, it actually works

[keen plover]

we need this monster back

[tropic horizon]

minus the stun locking

[keen plover]

it was in knockdown range

oh you just mean pachy from that update oh

[tropic horizon]

No I know that’s completely okay just meant good old pachy 1v1ing full carnos

[keen plover]

641hp gone in 2 - 3 hits there

[keen plover]

oh yeah that's terrible

I remember pachy back then being a mini boss fight for omni lol. You needed minimum 2 - 3 raptors to even look at a pachy

damage was overkill of course

[tropic horizon]

I miss that so much lol, even though it wasn’t the best balanced it was so terrifying to fight them and that was a blast

[leaden remnant]

real

[torn egret]

I think it’ll be impossible to really balance much in this game when it comes to stuns and animations.
Vomit lock, stun lock hell, but too much movement or animation cancels make animation more hell.
Anyone know what else is planned in terms of mobility.
Would be dope af if there were little “parkour” moves hypsi troodon and the nimbler dinos could do.
Maybe more climbing, nothing to threaten Herrera, as much as I hate them lol the trees are theirs. Being able to run around and do more stupid stuff would add a great chaos.

[pliant stone]

I feel that the Herreras damage jumping from trees should be a little more balanced a 25% grown shouldn’t be able to jump from a tree and almost one tap my 100% raptor

[tropic horizon]

This isn’t really a planned thing but I’d love if Oviraptor could glide for short distances after jumping. Or just having like ridiculous fall damage resistance.

[torn egret]

It’s all the fun and cool stuff that the game is missing. Being able to fly around with multiple different types of dinos. Having different environments where your dino does best, especially for nesting, etc. Can’t wait for dryo to get The Burrow again. I hope the varies dinos across-the-board gets some out of combat things to do.

It would be cool if you could do stupid things like fight to be the Pack leader, without risking life and limb. I just think it would be great

[halcyon elk]

I mean Dibble and pretty much every ceratopsid is getting that

[frail bobcat]

@sick bramble

[torn egret]

As cursed as the word is,
“Emotes” or some animations we can keybind would be tight. Outside of the current 1-4 binds

[halcyon elk]

Iirc thats been talked about as some late development stuff.

[torn egret]

They made a good choice starting with the dibble etc. good base to build actions on etc.

[halcyon elk]

Agreed, oh also apparently carno and cera are getting tweaks

[torn egret]

Really don’t play enough of Carno anymore to get a feel on how it’s doing. It’s still strong grown what I can tell, but it’s been dealing with a swarm issue as of late. Lots of dilo and raptors kill you before you make it.

[halcyon elk]

I think it's more going to be more into the "pursuit predator of small game"

[torn egret]

I hope so.
Just hope it won’t get nerfed too “hard”
If Carno loses a bit of damage but gets a reworked and consistent charge, I think it’ll be dope.
Hope it doesn’t upset the balance between cera v Carno and the two of them against teno and steg.

[halcyon elk]

I think the dichotomy is gonna be more: carno is not going to mess with a cera on a body, and teno is definitely gonna be a threat to hunt.

[torn egret]

Think it’ll also help if they tone down bleed from teno claws.
Carno is so thin skinned sometimes.

[halcyon elk]

Tbh I'd say keep it. Teno is a brawler so it makes sense the more "bullet train" carno tries to not get attacked by the teno.

[torn egret]

I’d like to see it reduced slightly in a test, just to see. Carno has low bleed resistance anyways.
But keeping it up will make sure tenos can hold ground.
What’s happening to Cera?

[hidden kettle]

hope cera get more body dependend tbh. sure its fun being a big mean bully in some way, and still its damn strong at bodies, but would like to see it a bit more as a scavangeing corpse stealer 😄
like nerf chargebite without body but buff within body range ~~

[torn egret]

The problem I see with limiting damage on the charge bite is that it’s the only real attack that a cera has against anything similar size. I think it caps at 500 dmg, but you’ll only really land that on a teno or steg. And you always run the risk of something just outrunning your bite and just wasting it.
It should get more nutrients imo from rotten bodies. That’ll help them cater to the cleanup crew for the server, and encourage food stealing.
But limiting its ability to hunt will hurt it if there’s no body to claim. Hope I made sense, my communication skills are extra doo-doo today lol.
Still amazed that they can’t fix the rotten food and nutrients issue. I’ll eat rotten food, get only the 1 nutrient.

[tight cove]

Max dmg charge bite does like 350 dmg bty

[unique mortar]

@sick bramble "Why would Carno take only 18 minutes longer than Utah to grow when he is much stronger and faster." By that logic humans MUST reach full grown faster than elephants and whales.... The creatures size and abilities have very little to do with growth and metabolism irl... "of course you will choose the strongest dinosaur if the growth time is almost the same anyways" Couldnt disagree more... they all have very unique playstyles, and its nothing like a x>y>z thing. Theres pros and cons to everything. Even being young gives you less damage but more stam. An adult carno isnt "Better" than a young carno. Its faster and more damaging, but easier to see and hit, and it uses ALOT more stam and needs to eat ALOT more.... idk... The gali does take too long to grow. If the Omni needs changed(I think its perfect atm) I dont think its a sign that the Carno needs to take longer to grow. Theyre just totally different creatures in every way

[golden coral]

One thing to take into account is that the scaling, or ability of a critter, as well as the viability, should affect the growth time and difficulty as well. Packs of raptors can be overall more effective than groups of carnos, and a solo omni might be more viable in general than a solo carno.

[unique mortar]

Raptor fanboys and carno haters dislike/X this >.>

[hidden kettle]

well at least we can eat it AND get the default Nutrient 😄
Cera is not a Hunter, is a scavanger and corpse stealer/bully .. it cant hunt anything anyways, if its prey wants to run .. its gone .. literally XD
Chargebite is very strong ( if working properly) and should be the thing that makes people not compete that big thread at the food. In that case its more a "push into the corpse" and become a defensive thing. As soon as you hit the corpse.
Saying Cera would have none to less other attack is straight up funny since altbite as strong as a carno bite, just sayin 😄
Bacteria comes in also on normal bites with 150 biteforce.. thats kinda 3 body bites for a raptor. same bites as a carno would need there. but faster.. and the chance to make it vomit to interrupt / prevent stam regen.. Cera is actually VERY strong as it is.. thats speakin without a body at all..

[torn egret]

I thought it was more. Maybe it just feels like it lol.
It doesn’t get a headshot multiplier right?

[tight cove]

It does

So maybe that’s why it feels like that

[torn egret]

Oh my :3

[elfin void]

the elephant and whale stuff you write is just to cringe for me tbh

[unique mortar]

Lol.... so.... exactly the thing I said, dressed up differntly XD

[torn egret]

Pretty sure carno bite is more than cera, least that was my understanding. And alt bite you lose dpm, cause of animations etc

Maybe I’m wrong, where do you get the stats from?

[elfin void]

nah, some of you people seem to come with these "but a horse can do this and that" and in nature the tooth decay of a cera would be so and so. Its a game... someone is questioning the balance of it, why bring up elephants and whales...

[unique mortar]

What are you talking about my guy? Tooth decay??? I was responding to a comment saying carno HAS to take longer than raptor to grow, or its unrealistic and unbalanced. Thats untrue. Wtf are you talking about about tooth decay?

and Im 'cringe'? XD Mirror my friend

[elfin void]

you dont have to answer bth

[unique mortar]

dont have to, but def will

[hidden kettle]

300 Base ( If fully Charged ) but 512(?) to the head

[elfin void]

Im playing carno this whole time, so dont really see your point anyways

[unique mortar]

My point is your ridiculous and everything I said made total sense

and if anyone here is 'cringe', it isnt me, or me first/most, specifically in context to these comments and conversations

[hidden kettle]

Carnos got Base 175 cera 150 Just Said the alt of cera got 175 as well. Carnos alt is around 200 as far as i know. Carnos Charge was around 400 If remember right. So theory .. If ram and Chargebite trade (headbite since faceing Off) they would trade the kill at 4th time .. Just theory 😄

[elfin void]

you keep cringing man

[unique mortar]

lol. Same to you!

[leaden remnant]

most civil discussion

[hidden kettle]

Isnt that a wierd diet calculation ? As far as i know Base grow time is far longer on Carno. And its fine imo

[leaden remnant]

the growth times are based on the overall power of the dino, so, only by logic, the person giving the balance feedback is correct

[unique mortar]

It is longer.

[hidden kettle]

Not nice Talk 😄

[hidden kettle]

Ye but also longer than 18 min as far as i know ( If Not changed with this Update)

[sick bramble]

someone who understands my point

[unique mortar]

They actually just want raptor to grow faster I think was their actual goal. Raptor and Carnos growth times arent ridiculous rn. If Im not mistaken everything grows fast at first and takes longer to finish atm? (I havent checked this but seen people talking about it, including in video uploads)

[leaden remnant]

yeah everything grows fast at first

[unique mortar]

But they really arent, dont need to be, and besides... Raptors are strong, and Carnos arent that much better

[leaden remnant]

raptors are not strong

[unique mortar]

And carnos DO take longer to grow, also

[leaden remnant]

well they are but not even close to carnos

[hidden kettle]

Ngl this is fairly balanced tbh but also admit (even i dont wanna) that cera could Take a Bit longer May Just 15-20min (Base time)

[unique mortar]

lol.... thanks for proving my original take right right here

[leaden remnant]

450kg 65 bite force 46.8 km/h compared to 1.8 tons 175 bite force 55.6 km/h

[sick bramble]

but if you 1 v 1 utah and carno carno will most likely win...

[leaden remnant]

i have not proven anything

raptors are mildly strong, carnos are strong as crap

[unique mortar]

mmmmm.... I mean, raptor takes more skill to play... but it should be easier to win with the carno.... The raptor can also just.... jump onto anything

Its not broken or whatever

The raptor literally is allowed to pick the fight

[leaden remnant]

so i agree with the idea that raptor taking the same time as dilo and close to the same time as cera and carno is stupid

[unique mortar]

plus raptors have large group size

[sick bramble]

carno is faster..

[hidden kettle]

Carnos bleed Like pigs If got stuck between 3 raptors Just saying 😄

[hidden kettle]

True.

[unique mortar]

Well, if raptor takes too long to grow, that has nothing to do with its relation to carno... prob what it is is everything should take longer to grow, but noone wants to hear that(to create a healthier game, and to get the type of play the devs want to encourage)

[leaden remnant]

growth times are made compared to other dinos, so it really has a lot to do with its relation to carno

[unique mortar]

I mean, idk if this is necesarrily true per say... It makes sense on the face, but some creatures really do just take longer to grow up, even if they are smaller, etc.... Although, maybe, for a game for balance... got nothing to do with the carno tho

and carnos arent JUST better than raptors

[leaden remnant]

some creatures take longer to grow up in real life, this is not real life tho

[sick bramble]

like a Utah has way less health than a carno and it takes almost same time to grow... does that make sence to u?

[unique mortar]

I mean, sort of, not really... how big is a fresh spawned stego?

[leaden remnant]

260kg iirc?

can't really remember off the top of my head

[unique mortar]

It really DOESNT have to do with comapring to other dinos

[leaden remnant]

well it is the way it is made

[unique mortar]

some things are big, some are small

[leaden remnant]

im not saying a raptor should take 1/5 the time a carno takes

[unique mortar]

Yeah, but by that logic dinosaurs should all be flying space wizards. come tf on

[cosmic pelican]

183kg, but it doubles its weight in minutes so kinda irrelevant

[elfin void]

cringe again

[leaden remnant]

by this logic, the growth time is decided by devs not by nature

[sick bramble]

i dont want to grow a galli (that can run and kick...) for like 2 hrs..

[leaden remnant]

so no, they aint flying space wizards

[unique mortar]

size/growth have nothing to do with other dinos, irl or in game... nor do they have to for any reason

[leaden remnant]

and the devs take into account the overall power, dying chance, etc of each dino

[unique mortar]

one dinosaur is not another

[sick bramble]

? what kind of point is that. This game is not about flying wizards.

[unique mortar]

they have different abilities. Saying one grows too fast or slow because of another is ridiculous

[leaden remnant]

it is not ridiculous

[sick bramble]

but u have to compare in order to balance

[leaden remnant]

there is a standard and you compare em in order to balance the time

[unique mortar]

If you can just change stuff because you feel like it than nothing matters. your being obtuse

[unique mortar]

exactly

[leaden remnant]

because it would be ridiculous for something that can do something cool to take the same as something 100 times more powerful that cant do that cool thing

[unique mortar]

it has nothing to do with weight and growth tho

[sick bramble]

but u said the oposite

[leaden remnant]

and because of that, you compare it to others

[hidden kettle]

Its called balanceing

[unique mortar]

No I didnt

[sick bramble]

.

[unique mortar]

thats dumb af... and Ive articulated why

but whatevsI got better stuff to do

[leaden remnant]

it is the way it is done

[unique mortar]

it isnt, nor should it be

[leaden remnant]

yes it is and it should be

[sick bramble]

it literally is

[unique mortar]

well if it was then you wouldnt be crying XD

[leaden remnant]

i dont see how im crying

[unique mortar]

complaining* same thing

[leaden remnant]

i am trying to express myself in a civil conversation

i am not complaining either

[unique mortar]

the way you go about it... and I was talking to you as a group now anyways

[hidden kettle]

Didnt you started this conversation by saying its dumb that carnos would Take "18min" longer than raptors ?

[unique mortar]

I said that raptors and carnos growth time should have no bearing on each other

[cosmic pelican]

18mins what💀

[elfin void]

are you carno main by chance?

[cosmic pelican]

The difference is exactly 1 hour

[hidden kettle]

Or did i got that wrong ? 😄

[unique mortar]

I dont even know how long they take to grow. they mentioned times

I cited them

[leaden remnant]

i dont think carnos take 18 mins longer than raptors

[unique mortar]

[9:03 AM]Peaches <3: Please look over the growth times again... Why would Carno take only 18 minutes longer than Utah to grow when he is much stronger and faster. Same with cera and Dilo, of course you will choose the strongest dinosaur if the growth time is almost the same anyways. And Galli taking 1 hour 50 minutes?? No wonder you dont see Gallis or smaller herbis anymore, its just not worth growing.

[cosmic pelican]

Omni takes 1h 45mins to grow, carno takes 2h 45 mins

[unique mortar]

I was replying to that

[leaden remnant]

@shadow vortex you gotta look behind you

[cosmic pelican]

(On perfect diet)

[hidden kettle]

Well i dont brought that Up 😄

[shadow vortex]

I know, but I already can tail slam right or left if look forward, so why not the straight tail slam if my camera is in neutral position?

[leaden remnant]

oh i see what you mean now

[shadow vortex]

I def remember that on Spiro it worked just fine...

[leaden remnant]

yeah idk 🤷‍♂️

[elfin void]

just move on and troll another games discord man

[unique mortar]

I dont main anything. I just know that Ive played carno and raptor lately alot and neither feels overtuned or undertuned, power or growth wise

they both feel like theyre in very reasonable spots

and it sounds like you was a 45min omni

[leaden remnant]

growth time used to be an hour

[hidden kettle]

Whoop there it is.. sry ya right you "".."" that

[unique mortar]

you good

[leaden remnant]

with the new additions, i honestly think it should take like 1h 15 mins or so

[unique mortar]

and, regardless of how their tuned.... carno isnt JUST better than omni

[leaden remnant]

well both do different things

[unique mortar]

Id be fine if omni took 115 tbh

frankly idc if it is 45

[leaden remnant]

so yeah they aint better yknow

[frail bobcat]

remember that playables arent useless while growing anymore

[leaden remnant]

they are just different

[unique mortar]

but I think some omni players think it should be too low

[frail bobcat]

growing as a omni actually doesnt feel bad

[leaden remnant]

um yes they are

at least raptor is completely useless

[frail bobcat]

omni doesnt feel useless while growing

[unique mortar]

shrug disagree, but I can understand how youd feel tht way

[hidden kettle]

Well i Main cera and gotta Tell ya this mf overgrows kinda much <.<

[cosmic pelican]

Juvi omni is insanely good in pack hunts

[unique mortar]

Same, for me.. carno neither tbh

[leaden remnant]

gotta be kinda big to tank at least a single hit

[cosmic pelican]

Ridicilously hard to get it off

[leaden remnant]

but if it's a stego or smth that 1 taps already then just who tf cares

go crazy waste all his stamina with bucking

[hidden kettle]

As most Dinos ID say 😄

[leaden remnant]

but if it's like a carno or smth... better be somewhat big to tank one hit

[hasty coyote]

some are, some arent. Stego hits 3 tons very quickly, and thats about as large as you need to be to deal with anything besides deinos and large packs.
juvie cera... is literally defenseless. Can't run, can't fight, shines like a beacon so you can't hide.

[frail bobcat]

juvie cera is a special one

[cosmic pelican]

Even if it gets 1 shot who cares, you lost like 5 mins of growth🤷‍♂️

[leaden remnant]

depends a lot ngl

[cosmic pelican]

And theyre good utility

[leaden remnant]

if you already got your diet n stuff...

and spent like 20 mins of growing already yknow

you become viable at around 65%, that's when you can start thinking about going solo

[hidden kettle]

Its Not ? Oo

[leaden remnant]

it takes an hour to reach that

you're still 1 tap to most things tho

[cosmic pelican]

Then just play more carefully, the big thing will focus the adults anyway so you have a lot of openings

[leaden remnant]

so you're better off waiting till you're around 75% to actually play solo normally

you'll be at around 360kg or so, you're kinda ballin

[cosmic pelican]

Solo is a much different cup of tea yeah

[hidden kettle]

Cera actually IS really strong compared to its Growtime on whatever Stage <.<

[frail bobcat]

So you say omni growth is useless because you cant play it solo until you are almost adult?

[hasty coyote]

well if you're solo growing, you're a LOT weaker, so that makes sense. You have to be careful even as an adult, so a sub would have to be extra careful.

[leaden remnant]

if you're in a pack or smth you're useful at around 60%

[hidden kettle]

Isnt the whole Point of rappi and troodons to Pack ?

[leaden remnant]

which takes like 55 minutes to reach

[frail bobcat]

solo omni can be fun sometimes, but you get screwed over by a singular adult dilo

[leaden remnant]

before that, you deal very little bleed, you can keep the wounds open yknow but... might not be worth it

takes too long to risk your life just like that

[hasty coyote]

yeah, but they shouldnt be unviable solo either way, that would just be poor design. Luckily, they are still very strong solo.

[hidden kettle]

Even as a freshy to deny resets or blood regen

[hidden kettle]

They are. To kill and hunt juvies and stuff ez pz

[frail bobcat]

baiting attacks and keeping woulds open is enough to do as a juvie

[hidden kettle]

But still its capable to do its thing:D

[cosmic pelican]

Id honestly argue theyre more useful in a pack than adults are

In some cases, not all

[frail bobcat]

sub omnis are really useful, they deal a lot of bleed and they just wont run out of stam

[hidden kettle]

Against stegos 100% buck their stam, get em defenseless for the big Boys

Big stam Pool goes buckle

Also psychological the tinys keep Up Stress on Prey May make it Buckle, waste stam, bait for free Hits of bigger ones

Saw so many stego/cera/Carno etc waste stam on a freshy raptor .. due to being stressed Out i guess

[torn egret]

I appreciate that! I was under the impression that 500 was the max, and there was no headshot multiplier.
So does that mean steg gets close to 1000 on a full charged headshot? (Don’t they take extra head dmg?)

[hidden kettle]

Ye 500 is max by headbite (still Not Bad) there was a Bug once get it up far beyond so some assume it is more (dont blame that tho)
Sorry i dont know the exact Numbers on stegs but a tailswing to the head (even If far from Common) nearly oneshot Most Dinos..so ye should be around 800+ i assume.
But we got. Some og stegos around that can answer that correctly 🙂

[torn egret]

I meant that stego take extra dmg to the head, like if I bite one i think someone said they have a x4 multiplier on head shot dmg they take. My b for bad explanation lol

[hasty coyote]

if the charged bite does 350, stego would take 700 to the head

[hasty coyote]

no its only a 2x to the head for stego, everything else has 1.5x other than pachy, which has like a 0.75x iirc

[torn egret]

Got it, thought headshot dmg was doubled base
Wish they had that info in an easier spot.

[hidden kettle]

Nah understood ya just fine now. But nope as far as i know stego doesnt have a bigger head multiplier than other (would Like it tho).

[hasty coyote]

the devs actively want there to be less info, so unless people compile the data each update, best we got are just accumulating data in memory

[hidden kettle]

Well due to a Bug its normal bite DMG (150) atm ..once its too much by Bug now to less 😄 WE will never be fine 😄
Edit: was also in hordetest ig since i Said Something Changed by loseing Fights i win normally .. now WE know...

[hasty coyote]

if you press left click instead of releasing right click while charging it fixes the bug from what I have seen, watched someone test it.

[hidden kettle]

Sometimes it does .. Sometimes not ._.

[rigid tulip]

Why?

[golden coral]

Metagaming. They don't want you to play thinking "I can take x hits" or "I do y damage", but rather play more immersive, and go "well, damage screen looks pretty bad, maybe I should retreat" or "well, the target looks in bad shape, it might be almost dead".

[rigid tulip]

How is this remotely reasonable to say?

This might be the most ridiculous sentence i have ever read unironically

[torn egret]

You think maybe they can do more visually to help with that?
It can be hard to gauge health on appearance alone.
I know it’ll be hard to implement for a bunch of reasons, but sound is about the only way to gauge health on something. Maybe I’m just bad lol

[rigid tulip]

Run to tree bro

[tropic horizon]

It removes the pachies main source of damage, slows its movement to a crawl, and with bucking it drains its stamina even quicker. Just like every single fracture minus the vision impairment of the head fracture.

[rigid tulip]

Difference is you can completely remove this debuff by running to tree

[tropic horizon]

Pachies can’t alt bite or ram while pounced so there goes their main two sources of damage so :/

[rigid tulip]

If u get fracture you have to sit for 10+mins

[tropic horizon]

*walking to a tree while taking excessive damage and bleed and if the raptor has one friend you’re dead.

[rigid tulip]

Matchup 1v1 should be unlose-able for pachy

[rigid tulip]

I mean yeah but if you see or hear raptors coming towards u and u dont head towards a tree thats just u throwing

[tropic horizon]

Like you have to trot over to a tree as the Dino with a pathetically slow trot while something is on you tearing you apart

[rigid tulip]

I think that pounce should not limit pachy main dmg source nor should it limit movement speed that much

However you guys are pretending like omni is just broken vs good players

[tropic horizon]

Yeah that’s just my main point, find it dumb how one guy pouncing you just sorta turns off your playable

[rigid tulip]

The entire playable become un-playable if the prey finds suitable terrain

[tropic horizon]

I mean, in terms of equal skill leveled players yeah it isn’t

I just find it boring and dumb when I play raptor that I can kinda just kill a pachy with the least amount of effort possible and I’d imagine that pachy wouldn’t be enjoying themselves either in that confrontation so yeah I’d probably want it changed

[rigid tulip]

A week ago we fought a stego and almost killed it, however we were near the giant central river bridge. He walked towards the railing on the outside part of the bridge towards the water. Cliff on one side, rail on other. The worlds best omni players ever in a pack of 8 in vc could not beat that

[golden coral]

They probably could, I think there might be plans for such things. That and tutorials to explain things, hopefully.

[rigid tulip]

I agree the disabling aspects of pounce should be nerfed, however omni is by design high risk

[tropic horizon]

Yeah raptors in this balancing limbo that I hate on both sides. The game is pretty much free if you’re out in the open but if the prey finds like, one or two trees next to eachother you just lose the whole game and it sucks

[rigid tulip]

Its not good in the way that carno was in its worst prime.

[tropic horizon]

Yeah it’s in its own state of good yet terrible as well

[rigid tulip]

Carno could run at u and just eat 1/3 of ur hp as a teno or cera by tapping right click. However this worst version of omni can be won against by standing in the right spot

The only option for prime carno was hide or somehow kill it (it was faster and bigger than you lol)

[golden coral]

Pounce is just a mechanic that seemingly can't be balanced well

[rigid tulip]

There is significantly more counterplay against omni than other dinos have had in their eras of broken-ness

[tropic horizon]

Pounce and bucking in general just need a complete rework and much more time outside of just bandaid solutions to “fix” it

[rigid tulip]

Get on good terrain, if he makes one mistake and is stunned he dies.

[golden coral]

And the only "balance" basically negates the engagement, for all the fun that is

[rigid tulip]

If I was the one in charge I would make bucking barely drain ur stam, drain the omnis stam very very fast, and I would completely remove getting hit off by trees, and I would remove the disabling features of pounced prey

[golden coral]

Could make omni starve/dehydrate faster so they'd be less suited for a siege, that might change the style of engagement around. But that's also a bit of a bandaid rather than a good solution

[rigid tulip]

Spiro tap pounce omni was the best omni

[hasty coyote]

with the current set up, omni either 1-shots prey, or doesnt have the stam to kill

[golden coral]

Well, they don't want tap pounce omni so, no go on that one

[hasty coyote]

im hoping they make bucking force omnis to dismount after a bit.

[rigid tulip]

In that case they could make the gameplay similar to tap pounce by just altering stats. Make it to where pounce deals less bleed than tap omni, yet make bucking start to very rapidly take stam away from the omni after around 3 secs of bucking

So you would stay on for a few seconds, but have the same effects as a tap pounce

[hasty coyote]

then omni doesnt have the stam to kill prey if the prey just immediately starts bucking every time they get on,

[golden coral]

Which would probably still not fit with "no tap" style

And would potentially cause other issues

[golden coral]

Which wouldn't be an issue is omni would wear down the prey before pouncing

[rigid tulip]

I propose that bucking only really starts taking ur stam after a few secs. So that the omni could either get tiny bleed whilst preserving stam, or risk getting his stam eaten whilst staying on for 3+ secs for extra bleed

[hasty coyote]

eh, honestly bites are super risky for omni because its balanced with the intangibility of pounce in mind

[hasty coyote]

could potentially work

Also, @crisp cloud Pachy's fractures aren't based on chance, its blunt damage based. Omni gets fractured with every hit because its bones don't have much blunt health.

[golden coral]

I know, the design of how omni is to work is... not ideal

[golden coral]

@kindred heath Thats been a thing for very long, and is normally seen as the main, and only real counter to a pounce. Also currently bucking is borderline useless, so not much of a counter even if it were to be used. So until bucking is properly useful, you're going to have to take into account that anyone up against more than one omni (and even one if it's against similar sized target) is going to use trees and rocks and water and whatever else they can to counter.

[kindred heath]

Then the solution should ideally be to buff bucking so it's not useless, not making the main feature of a class completely useless.... even if it's been a thing for awhile it just doesn't seem like a good design. Omni's just feel weaker than they should

[golden coral]

I'd agree. But it used to be very powerful, and that only resulted in tap pouncing. Which in turn got nerfed, but then you got the issue of wearing the target down before pouncing, which is not how omnis play, and at that point they tend to just kill via biting.

[kindred heath]

hmmmm... perhaps a solution could be to make it so tree-bumping only drains some of the raptors stamina rather than auto-detatches them and knocks them to the ground? If nothing else it forces the latched player to put in more effort and makes it so the raptor isn't just knocked off into a vulnerable position

[golden coral]

Possibly, but then you'd have to still make it very effective, so maybe two bumps would force it off, and in turn lower the power of the pounce to adjust for that, and so on. I don't know, there could probably be variations done, but it would have to be rebalanced so the counter remains an effective one, otherwise you'd end up with no option at all.

[kindred heath]

honestly that sounds better than what we currently have. Otherwise all dinos would just camp right next to literally anything to knock them off. Once a raptor is on the ground it's pretty much done for

[golden coral]

Honestly not sure it would do much aside from making the encounter even longer, instead of knocking them off immediately, you take two tries. Instead of needing to pounce for so long, you'd just need to pounce for even longer for the same effect. It would slow down the pace, but it's no guarantee that's good.

[dense terrace]

Hi,I want to ask how to get new dinosaurs?

[frail bobcat]

which new dinosaurs? the ones on evrima

[hidden kettle]

you play legacy or the evrima beta branch ?

[hidden kettle]

#balance-feedback message
@west plank imo the charge ram should also not cancel the chargebite in a body down standoff... i see no sense in closeing the threatening mouth without biteing .. but in that case cera could trade carno rams wiht chargebites and would win a faceoff on bodybuff.. ( which would be welcome since its ceras ability/ desinge to be a big threat at a corpse you dont wanna fight) . But anyways totally with ya about the chargebite gettin canceled for everything besinde being bugged not doing its dmg after all.. the one thing to have to defense 😄

[hidden kettle]

whats wrong with carno atm ?!
died to 6 bites mostly taily/body at 1.2tons ?!
charge ram does full dmg to tail for whatever reason as far as experienced ... with a chargebite that hits with normal biteforce still ... fix this ffs... -.-"
no wonder every 3rd freakin dino is a carno atm .. abuse the S-Diet out of it again it is .. since hordetest its just pure suffering ..

[leaden remnant]

uh ram does lil damage

it's just the hitbox n latency that just make it terrible

[west plank]

also cera Charge bite sometimes not working because his vertical range so little

[hidden kettle]

ye. its kinda "S-diet" atm ... beside from not working at all due to 150 dmg on release .. 😄

[hidden kettle]

well it obv did a lot for whatever reason, just had a fullgrown Cera die to 3 charges with 1-2 flowoup alt bites near a dead pachy... yes you get hit even its runing past you (pretty F`d up imo) but not that it does pretty much dmg for a attack that simple and (since it hits anyways even beside ya) unavoidable. Also chargebite gets canceled by it.

[leaden remnant]

wat

[hidden kettle]

yes. i died a lot today to carnos just ramming me a few times with no downside at all.. 2 charge with followup to deep orange.. 3rd time ..bam im dead. with a chargebite that does nothing besides being a normal bite, just louder and able to cancel to whatever dmg.
used to 1v2 carnos if in a good spot or prepared around a body.. but atm just get rammed to Valhalla by a single one that passes me <.<

img the small game hunter just became the apex train once AGAIN ...

[hidden kettle]

well lets say it like this... since i started hordetest i said somethings on cera feels nerfed or something due to loseing fights been easier before (first i thought its maybe a slightly teno buff or a slightly stam change with more effect f.e.) ... then we find out chargebite doesnt do its thing. and now im pretty sure somethings aint right again .. may its a hitreg problem on carnos ram or its the dmg (or both like a tail hit with head multiplier) that combined with the lose of actual charged bite.. feels defensless against a "small game hunter" as it is atm..
would say may i got a bad day/week and carnos are just good atm.. but thats not really the case and seeing how many carnos are around as well im confident somethings on we didnt fully noticed now. either cera got an additional problem beside the bite (like a not fully functional body buff) , or carno got a missworking tweak once again.

[empty fractal]

Hi, only just joined and while I know this update that changed carno charge was like months ago, I wanted to bring it up cuz I see its still the same after the most recent major update on may 3rd. Let me say preface this by saying I do not think carno is "weak" comppared to the other mid sized dinos but I do not agree with the new direction they've taken with the carno. While carno still does have its stun, the level of commitment for the result is not worth it to me. to spend 20% of my stamina to get off a charge with stun has bigger punishment if I were to miss because now im entering a fight with a huge chunk of stamina gone. Meanwhile teno can stun with kicks and its tail and only use 5-8% of stamina and can be used repeatedly. Now carno is strong but when facing off against tenos I feel like I have to hit trade with them because now there is no safe way to approach them. Unlike cerato or omni the carno is not agile enough to bait attacks and counter, its just fast and thats it. the purpose of the charge was to do damage while preventing the opponent from attacking. Even decently sized juvie stegos are a threat because they can attack while I charge. feel free to share thoughts. I think the insta acceleration was op even with the 20s cooldown but I'd rather go back the isla spiro carno with the slow acceleration but still had access to the charge with stun

[unique mortar]

I feel like its only good to finish someone one shot rn if you got the drop on them unless your very skillful or lucky... That doesnt make it useless. Considering that it doesnt make it useless, I think Carno overall with charge as is isnt too weak or too strong, which I like... and I rather have it than not/nothing/something broken or actually useless....

That said, it does kinda feel bad rn. Maybe too expensive. idk. Its hard to mess with in more than one axis at a time without needing to retune it later, but people get upset going through that process, so I think theyve tried to take a "get it done at once" approach which... works when it does...

Its not awful rn imo, so personally I wouldnt consider it a priority... But its felt better before(although been perhaps op, or otherwise over or undertuned or unbalanced with other considerations 🤷‍♂️ )

[distant torrent]

what carno needs right now is a stam cost reduction to the charge (and possibly a removal of the cooldown altogether or reduce it to some extent).

the windup for a knockdown should be reduced greatly ONLY for targets half its weight or below (reduced. instant charge knockdowns/stuns should not come back)

[empty fractal]

With 10% activation + cooldown + increased consumption of stamina when in use; all those things together seem too taxing. maybe reducing stam consumption when running with charge activated or remove it entirely and maybe possibly lower the cooldown? idk.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

Wrong haha

[frail bobcat]

@dusk galleon why is it better?

[slim dragon]

It's simply better ||for deathmatch||

[alpine plover]

Are fg deinos faster than Juvis on land now too?

They seem faster all around. No way to escape them.

[keen plover]

They are

[alpine plover]

Man. Can't catch a break lol

[unique mortar]

O.o What? ..... I mean... you stam out faster still yeah? Wtf are they doing with deino??????

[hidden kettle]

ngl atm a carno only can die and lose If its playing as dumb as possible imo.
Why is it called the small Game Hunter If its actually the Walking apex atm.. seen raptor Packs die, ceras.. even tenos.. small Game Hunter hunting Prey Close to its own weight doesnt Sounds small Game after all.. Just my opinion but should it hunt 1.3 and 1.6 ton Dinos as "small Game Hunter" or is small Just a pretty wide Word ?

[tall bronze]

It's more so that Carno is supposed to be a small game hunter according to Don, but it's a mishmash of oddities right now that make it....whatever it is right now So he's working on changes that should (hopefully) make it a proper open plains small game hunter.

As for what is defined as small game, it's difficult to say since some creatures smaller than Carno may have unique aspects that make them undesirable for Carno despite their size. Take Tenonto for example. It's smaller, sure, but is built for dealing with 1v1s exceptionally well, so it's not a wise choice for Carno.

But unique exceptions aside, I believe it's generally "smaller than Carno = dinner time"

[hidden kettle]

Ye but thats the wierd Thing tho. Cant wait to See what they will come up with. Right now it can just Facetank a lot knowing thats No big Deal. Massive weight and a insanely high biteforce for a small Game Hunter .. With a Charge that still does good dmg with nearly no downside ramming Something Close to its weight by Just running throu a lot for some reason.
Im fine If that shall still be the Walking apex for now but then dont call it a small Game Hunter 😄
Speaking as a cerato i gotta say it became way worse fighting them atm even around Bodys since dodgeing them wont do Most of the time by Standing beside IT and still get ramed somehow.

With a Chargebite Not working AND being canceld Without bite by any dmg its pretty much a Walking suffering for now.. everything is faster than ya and the only Thing that wont try to Just force you into Facetank is a raptor.
Also feels Like Body buff is not applied that often atm looking at dmg Input. While eatin its fine but Standing around feels Like either been reduced or Sometimes not working Oo

[ebon crystal]

Carno isn't invincible. Slow turn speed is the big weakness - Cerato can definitely dodge the charge by moving laterally. Carno charge costs a lot of stamina unless timed well, and has a distinctive sound. So if they charge from too far away, you know it's the right moment to dodge away sideways.

Cerato on a body is an interesting fight for a Carno. Cerato wants to stay on the body for the damage resistance, but if they stand still too much they're an easy target for the charge. Cerato bacterial bite can also be very debilitating - throwing up mid fight saps your stamina and ruins your diet.

It makes a full-grown Cerato a risky challenge if I'm a Carno. Even if I win, all I can eat is their organs. Which I might need to if they've bitten me enough and I've thrown up and lost all my nutrients.

It means I'd often prefer to hunt something else as a Carno. Cerato works best as a body bully, they're not quick enough to chase things down. But most dinos will give up a body rather than tangle with a Cerato arriving as they're trying to heal up. If I'm a Carno and I've eaten my fill of something I've killed, I won't stick around and risk losing the diet I just won.

[storm lotus]

@kindred heath I agree with your suggestion but given the number of negative votes I think that most people are against this idea because it plays herbivorous and does not play Utah I already find that herbivores are too advantageous compared to carni

[golden coral]

Herbis should kind of be easier/have an advantage over carnis since in general carnis get to choose the encounter and all that. And well, carnis are kind of meant to be the "hard mode" compared to herbi "easy mode", so there is that. Ideally there should be far more herbis played than carnis.

[storm lotus]

no I don't agree herbivores have a good advantage in the game in terms of life attack and endurance excuse me but a pachy can clearly kill a carno without difficulty where utah it's difficult

[golden coral]

Not sure I agree that herbis overall have the advantage, but the point was more so that they should have some advantage. And well, a pachy can't really "clearly kill a carno" last I checked. Not anymore, when it can no longer stun the carno, and it can thus fight back quite well. On top of that, you have to take into consideration that an omni, is very much a prey for carno. As is pachy, but where omni can run, juke, and get away easier, pachy is more inclined to lean into "fighting" to get away. On top of that, omni and pachy works differently, so it's not that strange that one of them might do better vs carno than the other, since omni for example do a lot better vs stego and others than pachy does.

[dusky surge]

if a carno is easily killed by a pachy, that's on the carno for being bad lol

[storm lotus]

even being good at carno you just need pachy to lift your head and paw and I assure you you're dead

[dusky surge]

you aren't good at carno if that happens

[unique mortar]

A pachy can not even close to kill a carno 1v1

[golden coral]

Well, if the carno is really bad and the pachy really, really good, I guess. But no, far as I know, the carno should win that one quite easily, and if nothing else, run away if needed.

[unique mortar]

it might be able to escape a carno

I mean, the pachy has to get close to the carno to hurt it

the carno can trade all day

[storm lotus]

ah yes yes if it clearly has the advantage just an example we agree that the stego is heavier than the deino?

[unique mortar]

even broke leg and chest and head, stand against something, look down the pinhole in ur vision at it, and if it gets close, alt bite

[dusky surge]

stego is lighter than deino what

[golden coral]

What? Stego is not heavier than deino, it's 6K, deino is 8K

[golden coral]

Don't think you can alt bite with broken leg, unless that's changed? But you can still bite, so the pachy would still have to worry, you can take a few more hits than it can after all.

[storm lotus]

are you sure ?

[unique mortar]

you might be right... guess just bite then :-p

u can win even with bites, but alt bite helps garauntee you get hits every time

even if you miss though with regular bites, you can still afford to miss more than a couple times

[golden coral]

On the stego, deino weights, yes, unless things changed very recently

[unique mortar]

Isnt the in game weight of Deino actually low for irl comparison?

at FG*

[dusky surge]

its 8 tons, thats good

[unique mortar]

I thought I heard IRL they were even bigger

[storm lotus]

in this case it's weird the stego in 1v1 kills the deino while the deino does more damage and is heavier

[unique mortar]

obviously... we dont have their weight with flesh... but I assume they can make some decent estimations

[storm lotus]

Is herbivory more advantageous?

[unique mortar]

**** I guess I was misinformed?? theyre estimated to be like 11000lbs FG?

so eight tons is big, if anything

:I shrug

[dusky surge]

pounds are not kilos

11000lbs is actually VERY light compared to our deino

[unique mortar]

indeed

[golden coral]

No, it's not weird at all. Because you're not looking at the critters properly. Deino can now also lunge a swimming stego, and thus kill it. Deino does not do more damage in bites than stego. You need to take the critter as a whole into account. Overall, deino has always been very advantageous compared to stego (these days it might be different, deino has been a bit nerfed, more or less), even if stego has been able to win 1v1 most of the time (aside from a few periods where deinos would solo stegos with ease).

[storm lotus]

frankly the bite force of the deino represents not at all that of reality

[golden coral]

True, which is for the better balancewise. But at the same time, the lunge does represent the bite force, so the power is still there in the game.

[storm lotus]

I say when the spino, rex, giga and spino arrive the deino will be a big victim

[dusky surge]

i mean... yea, it will be, devs want them to destroy deino

[golden coral]

Well, it can probably avoid rex and giga, more or less. Spino is, last I heard meant to hunt and scare deino, yes. But to call it a victim is hardly accurate, it'll still be up there in power most likely

[fallow blaze]

Well, no one can say until now.
I don't know how relevant this statement is today:
the devs said they won't balance all the dinosaurs.
For example, if an unofficial server decides to offer all 60+ dinosaurs, the animals will inevitably be unbalanced.
but I think that imbalance is balance.

I don't want an adult Teno, for example, to be able to stun an adult Giga.
Teno should lose 100%.
the same with an adult Deino vs adult Spino.
I think the bigger and heavier the animals become, the less prey the Deino will be able to capture.
The Deino will certainly be changed from time to time, but I don't think to that extent

[golden coral]

Well, reasonably, a teno would be able to run away from a giga, so no issue there. Same with deino, it could swim away from spino.

[dusky surge]

we already know for a fact teno won't do that because of how it's already balanced

also, the bigger and heavier the animals the come, the more sufficient prey deino has on offer

having carno be the largest animal you can consistently capture is not great for deino's self-sustanence

[storm lotus]

I don't really believe in it

[fallow blaze]

It was just a fictional example to illustrate his situation with Deino vs anything else.

[golden coral]

Okay I guess

[fallow blaze]

run/swimming away is also a survival tragedy and absolutely correct to do so.

Not even 2 years ago the community wanted the weakest animal to win in the strangest 1vs1.
which mostly made no sense.
"make hypsi to kill dryo/omni" for example.

I was just worried that things would go in that direction again. lol

[storm lotus]

the deino is in the average+ category and the stego I heard that will compete with the rex there is a problem somewhere

[dusky surge]

what is the average+ category lol

[storm lotus]

it's before apex

[dusky surge]

i just call that tier large

but anyway, deino will mostly be fine, even with rex. Stego has a lot more to fear from rex's introduction

[storm lotus]

or if you prefere tier large +

[golden coral]

There used to be a time where dryos and hypsis could take on stegos xD

[dusky surge]

idk whats with the plus but tier names aren't really important

deino has the health and cover to evade these apexes, water acts an entire safezone against any would-be attacker rex

[golden coral]

Well, stego will apparently have to run from rex, similar to how deino runs from spino I guess.

[dusky surge]

(except deino makes far more sense outspeeding spino on account of the fact that it is an insanely powerful swimmer, and stego is a fat quadruped designed to hit things that get too close vs a creature that spends most of its juvenile and sub-adult life reaching insane speeds)