balance-feedback-discussion

[halcyon elk]

They're humans but absolutely juiced.

[vague helm]

"Perfected Humans"

[halcyon elk]

It probably is considering their likely a step in human perfection

[dusky surge]

do they? They're slower than a stego last I checked

[vague helm]

Well yeah, that's because every animal is likely gonna RUN faster than a human.
But FOR a human, Gen 2 runs pretty damn fast

They run basically at 27 km/h

Or well, that's what they WOULD travel irl

[dusky surge]

tbh the speed at which all animals run in The Isle is proof enough this game is going to be terrifying for them lol

[vague helm]

Oh yeah for sure. Raptor and Dilo especially are just horror for human to deal with

Not so much Troodon because human facetanks it and wins due to the pounce change..Sadly

[dusky surge]

from my testing, carnotaurus is also an utter nightmare

herrera too, should the human not know of their presence

[vague helm]

Oh yes. I actually got a clip for that.

Herrera NOT so much because hitting a moving human as Herrera is extremely difficult imo.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

"why pounce changes need to be reverted"
barely even talks about the pounce changes

lmao

literally mostly about unrelated bugs, bugs that have existed for pounce well before the changes, server issues, or people using terrain

none of which is new to pounce

[halcyon elk]

Olé

[mint star]

i love this

[balmy briar]

Because dense people like you, Need to be "shown".

it is what it is

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

"why pounce changes need to be reverted"
barely even shows anything about the pounce changes

lmao

[balmy briar]

the video speaks volumes.

more then any of your wall of texts could do

[dusky surge]

the video speaks volumes about stuff we already knew

[balmy briar]

already knew =/= already acknowlegded , it has been defended that the checks are good.

and with the desync this game has, its outright impossible

[dusky surge]

basically zero of the issues you presented except rare cases displayed the actual pounce changes being detrimental

the rest is stuff that existed prior and have always been a part of the isle and pounce as a mechanic

reverting the changes does nothing to address any of the problems you put forward in that vid, so why revert them?

[balmy briar]

so idk what u guys ARE defending about it... i suppose the people who are the carno or cera that WALLhug , are the ones that are like YEAH GOOD CHANGE! now i can stand at this wall AND they still cant get on with a cheeky little pounce! i applaud it! ,

Same Carno mentality: Asking for weird carno buffs,

How is this camp so split in 2 parts that at one hand, Omni is OP , but on the other hand Carno is underpowered 🤣😂💀💀

[balmy briar]

"rare cases" , meanwhile its 9/10 pounces 💀

u do not play raptor

[dusky surge]

im talking about the video

[balmy briar]

imma make that statement rn

[dusky surge]

i also mainly play troodon, omni and herrera lmao

those are my big main three favourite animals

[balmy briar]

Alr show me a omni hunting video, just clip urself. Dw i wont expect nappn level of gameplay

"i dont feel like it" ?

[dusky surge]

i find that kind of stuff boring personally

[balmy briar]

oh do u now

[dusky surge]

yea

[balmy briar]

sounds likeee dodging 👀

because

[dusky surge]

so wait, how does me taking a video of me hunting prove anything anyways?

[balmy briar]

if u actually did, youd be coming to me in DM's and say "you know what, you are right" im a 100% certain

challenge accepted?

[dusky surge]

i played omni recently and it was a ton of fun, died to a pachy but i deserved it for playing wrecklessly

[slim dragon]

wtf is this conversation

[dusky surge]

no clue man

[balmy briar]

well i keep hearing "its fine" , but not a single raptor i remotely know, says its fine rn

[dusky surge]

im talking about how the video basically barely touches on the actual pounce changes, he's talking about... idk hunting vids?

[balmy briar]

i dont think omni's have ever been as united on something as on the pounce changes being unplayable

so u saying, its fine, tells me your either a rare 1%

or you dont play the creature at all

[cosmic pelican]

Omnis were united when they thought u6 omni was weak

(It was not)

[balmy briar]

thats before my time, the game only became playable around 6.5 , before that it was 10fps at best

but your point is made, fair

[dusky surge]

Considering omnis are getting "pounce-to-pinned", I'd rather it stay as it is. Also it's bizarre that you of all people are saying omni is weak

[calm ibex]

while i'm not dismissing your point, if you talk to a raptor player they most likely call themselves too weak while everything else is OP. its a way to cope with lack of ...things.
Same works for carnos etc.
would be better to listen to people who are competent and play multiple playables with deep understanding of the match ups

[balmy briar]

i mean that would first mean, id have to call myself competent and i lack in the arrogance department to make such a claim

[dusky surge]

also i would like to point out that carno does indeed need a buff, but not a huge one. Just making the charge not shred the stamina pool would be good enough to make it fine, then no more changes

[balmy briar]

tho others call me competent, i suppose that counts

[balmy briar]

see

i dont understand, because i absolutely shred on a carno

what are u unable to do?

[dusky surge]

nothing really, it's just kind of unfitting given the charge is both

• encouraged to be used for longer to do more damage and knockdown
• discouraged from being used for longer due to it shredding your stamina pool sickeningly fast

i just think that these two balancing factors makes the ability contradict itself, which is confusing and frankly bad design

[cosmic pelican]

Charge needs such a massive commitment now that I actually never see competen carno players use it

[balmy briar]

yeah, well i will agree with that partly and even got a fix for you, just have it store running momentum, meaning if you are already sprinting u could simply activate it, as a tradeoff make its footsteps a litttttle louder cuz these things can ghost the hell out of you

like touch ability key before impact, but u need your momentum

not lots of stam, still requires a wind up

[dusky surge]

i mean... that doesn't really work because carno gets instant momentum now

[balmy briar]

and that was a big phat mistake

[dusky surge]

i also like the fact that you do need to semi-commit now

[balmy briar]

imo Carno was fine in 6.5 already

[dusky surge]

considering it ALSO has a 20 second cooldown, having it drain less stamina is fine

[balmy briar]

teno was nicest around 6.0 i think, cuz after that we got the tailtip bs

[dusky surge]

6.5 carno was absolutely garbage as an animal

like it was REALLY badly designed

[balmy briar]

idk, i was shredding

knocking over and beating cera in spiro stats aswell

[cosmic pelican]

6.5carno really was bad, compared to the competition at least

[slim dragon]

Carno actually having acceleration would be a good change

[balmy briar]

what competition? it beat cera

[dusky surge]

that's the problem, that's ALL carno could do

the issue with 6.5 carno is it exclusively dealt with ceras and tenos, and SUCKED at hunting anything else

[balmy briar]

well yeah what was the expectation, to murder 6 raptors?

your gonna die... raptors are underestimated

[cosmic pelican]

Omni could 1v1 it, cera could run it down, its matchup against a good teno was non existent because of the accel. Ive even seen gallis kill carnos back then lol

[balmy briar]

Good Omni*

please do include that the omni in question is on steroids

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah but still proves how garbage it was

[slim dragon]

Omni should be able to 1v1 anything with sufficient skill

[balmy briar]

^

[slim dragon]

Including things that are specifically designed to counter it

[balmy briar]

dark souls rules, if i can dodge you, and i can hit you, then i can beat you.

[slim dragon]

erm this was sarcasm

[balmy briar]

still remains true

[cosmic pelican]

I did it a few times myself, even though im notthing more than a casual who enjoys omni

[balmy briar]

if i dodge you, then you miss, and i take 0 dmg, if i hit you and dont get hit, then you slowly take dmg

takes time, takes skill, but its a video game so stop thinking in realism terms with your emp spino concept

[slim dragon]

No one mentioned realism here

[balmy briar]

i was expecting that to come up

[cosmic pelican]

Omni 1v1ing brachi

[balmy briar]

it usually does, its like the day after tomorrow, i know the bs thats coming

[slim dragon]

The chances of omni 1v1ing things like stego, rex or trike should so low, even with great skill, that it should even be taken in consideration

[balmy briar]

eh i die 9/10 times

on a stego

(1v1 ofc)

tho i must also add that rubberbanding had a role in that

[slim dragon]

Technically hypsi can 1v1 a deino right now
But the odds are very low, so on a balance level it's considered unable to do so

[balmy briar]

thats fair to include

[dusky surge]

i love how you can accidentally pick out omni mains with this statement

[balmy briar]

ehmm we pounced a deino yesterday wich was 60% growth with 4-5 full stamina bars, and man was fine with 50% bleed

[cosmic pelican]

(It cant, if the deino just rests since its dmg gets outhealed lol)

[balmy briar]

so id love to see the hypsi thing

[slim dragon]

Well if the deino doesn't rest it can
But the deino basically has to be helping the hypsi to kill it for that to happen

[balmy briar]

i given up on deinos they are out of our reach entirely

and thats how u do it on things that are huge

[slim dragon]

Oh and there's also locked health so I'm not sure deino can outheal it

[cosmic pelican]

The deino will die to dehydration before the hypsi

[balmy briar]

Change bucking to be weight based, the heavier you are, the stronger you buck
Then if a raptor attacks a REX god forbids its possible, but we will try it i promise, and lets say i pounce it but he bucks and im out of stam in like 5 sec + i did like 1% bleed dmg

that single change willbalance raptors for a lifetime

now, are there gonna be a few souls who will try to fite it with biteforce? sure il be one of the first infact

[cosmic pelican]

Dilo and pachy will get 1shotted by pounce again though

[balmy briar]

and if i can dodge it for 30 min , and then hit it , and its like at 50% hp , does that make omni broken?

like honestly?

close calls for 30 min

i somehow, have a angel on my shoulder pull it off

[slim dragon]

Keep bucking as species-dependent so certain animals have better bucking than others depending on their niche

Stop balancing everything around weight alone

[balmy briar]

i think you dont understand

its ok

[dusky surge]

that is what they deserve for being within the OMNIRAPTOR'S powerful hunting presence

[balmy briar]

wait wait wait

[balmy briar]

so we can risk , breaking all our bones, with a very generous hitbox, but we are not allowed to pounce a pachy cuz god forbid we use our ability? and dilo can hallucinate us , (thankfully nerfed) and disorientate us , and send clones on us that still do 14% dmg to my knowlegde per clone) but we cannot use our pounce?

what is this madness

[dusky surge]

yes that's EXACTLY what he said

[cosmic pelican]

Theres a difference between using an ability and effectively 1shotting things with it

[dusky surge]

he said that you SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to pounce pachy and dilo

[balmy briar]

he said in a nutshell "welp pachy and dilo just die for free i guess"

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah ofc

[balmy briar]

but its not free at all.

[slim dragon]

Actually he said "Raptor too OP, remove its pounce and set its biteforce and hp to 1"

[dusky surge]

thank goodness

[balmy briar]

honestly 🤭 with the mentality around here, id almost take you serious

and thats the true sadness

[dusky surge]

lmao

jumping to complete extremes my beloved

[cosmic pelican]

In all seriousness though please dont make bucking weight dependant.
Even though its hard to land a pounce on a dilo or pachy them getting 1shotted still isnt fair.

[balmy briar]

when the pot calls the kettle black xd

[balmy briar]

but we also get one shotted

like in dilos case wayyy less, and fair

but pachy breaks 1 thing, and then u break it all, its a bargain sale

[dusky surge]

if you ARE going to make bucking weight dependent, make a single buck from a massive animal like stego knock you off instantly

which isn't good balancing either but it's the only way to balance dilo and pachy around such a system

[balmy briar]

i'd also say make pouncing reduce movement speed 🙂

[cosmic pelican]

I agree with dilo, 0 leeway there. But getting hit by a pachy is all on you, especially if you have packmates

[dusky surge]

it does this to pachy already

in fact it absolutely neuters pachy's movespeed

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah id be fine with that tbh

[balmy briar]

and it should be wide across the board, with the only difference being how much it impacts the other animal

based on , guess what

weight

[cosmic pelican]

Bite force

[balmy briar]

i knew u'd troll

[cosmic pelican]

I had to

[balmy briar]

you are forgiven

[cosmic pelican]

🥔❤️

[balmy briar]

no but fr , like when i pounce a carno ( god knows HOW i got on it ) , and it zips to a tree with 50kmph that aint balanced either, i aint getting my value, but i am def losing my stam to a point where i need to rest from a "stamina management" pov.

risk: oneshot to alt bite

so i am risking alot , omnis are so fragile, no room for error.

(and i also consider pachy and dilo fragile, so in comparison to THAT, i think omni is toilet paper)

anyway g2g irl, mr.dilo is obvi wrong and have a good day ^.^

[slim dragon]

I disagree

[dusky surge]

thank you

someone had to

[slim dragon]

Tho does a carno alt-bite really oneshot omni ?

[dusky surge]

nope

[slim dragon]

That's what I thought

[cosmic pelican]

Takes a bit more than half your hp

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/omw-to-spread-misinformation-all-over-the-internet-gif-26525511

[cosmic pelican]

On a headshot

But you have to mess up real bad for that to happen

[dusky surge]

doing the math, it'd probably do around 200-250 damage. So yea, over half on headshot

[slim dragon]

tbh omni weight still needs to be reduced

[dusky surge]

i agree but i'm enough of an omni hater as-is

[slim dragon]

shut up omni main

[dusky surge]

the omni community will strike me down

frankly i still think "pounce-to-pin" is more than enough

[slim dragon]

The fact galli is lighter than omni is an aberration to me

[cosmic pelican]

Im interested how theyll balance that tbh

[dusky surge]

nerfed because omni

[slim dragon]

I wanna see a line-up of omni, dryo, pachy and galli and have people who don't play the game try to guess how much each one of them weighs

[dusky surge]

lmao

[hallow hinge]

bro u such a raptor hater LOL

[dusky surge]

literally one of my fave animals

up until troodon, it was my go-to

[hallow hinge]

bro i have tried trodon it is much much easier to play

[dusky surge]

????

lol

[hallow hinge]

still has problems but it has less bugs, better acc for pounce

[dusky surge]

it has the exact same amount of bugs and pounce accuracy

[hallow hinge]

u sure ?

[dusky surge]

both pounces are done with the same code

[hallow hinge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/qUPqmfjsMTY?si=0g7BLoIGysTcrjez

bro Does size even metter, even there is diffirence between adult and juvi raptor

[dusky surge]

what does size even have to do with this

[hallow hinge]

once u get bigger ur body hitbox gets too

soo even if ur just tiny bit of ur hitbox hit back it count as a back pounce

u can think like 2 sticks but one vertical one horizonal.

Horizonal one much much likely to hit back more than vertical even if u pounce from same spot. I hope it is enough to make u understand 🙂

[vague helm]

The hit boxes for side pounce either need to be smoothed out or face/rear pounces where it makes sense get added back.

The pounce angels rn are so finicky. If the opponent moves just an inch, you basically die.
Hitting Raptor pounce without impact pounce already took some skill and was dodgeable. Now you spin in a circle or alt spam amd the raptors get smacked the second they don't hit just the right amount of a hitbox.

Like i.e
You can pounce a Teno/Stego from the front, but not from behind
Or you can pounce Carno/Cera from behind but not from the front.

[vague helm]

@amber folio Once again that's being addressed lmao.
Dondi recently spoke about being able to drain nutrients via salt licks, and probably some other methods so we aren't locked to only xyz nutrient due to our hunger

[amber folio]

@vague helm sorry bro, im a casual player, i dont watch live streams and stuff, i just play xD. Im you in some games tho, like star citizen, so i get it, but i really mean no harm haha, just giving feedback where the game tells me where to put it lol

[vague helm]

I'm just telling you so your worries are lifted.

If you have any other issues, you can always DM me and ask about them and I'll see if it's been addressed already ^^

I just wanna help people out and give them knowledge when they lack some of it for certain aspects of something

[amber folio]

Thanks a lot :)

[hallow hinge]

he claim he is raptor player but whenever someone says something logical he just ignore lol

[dusky surge]

"he claims he is a raptor player but he doesn't agree with me"

[hallow hinge]

yeah i agree for example now i was fighting with teno i pounced and rubberbanded on air and i found myslef in fron of him 2 alt bite and he chase me to bleed out

[hallow hinge]

that's facts bro u don't have to agree this is how hitbox works

[dusky surge]

???

we were talking about troodon somehow being better than raptor and you went on a tangent about "size not mattering"

[vague helm]

Troodon ain't better than raptor at all.
I feel horrible for Troodon I'll be honest

[dusky surge]

yea idk why he said that either

[hallow hinge]

bro as a pounce acc trodon is better

[dusky surge]

it really is not lol

[hallow hinge]

u can try this with ur friend

i did and same spot trodon latch but raptor didn't

and i actually didn't fail as a trodon 10/8 land

[vague helm]

Trust me, it isn'tz

[hallow hinge]

for small one yeah

[halcyon elk]

I hope people don't complain on how powerful diablo is gonna be.

[hallow hinge]

it is too hard

[halcyon elk]

Since it's a ceratopsid. They kinda supposed to be that strong

[dusky surge]

they will

[hallow hinge]

but big ass dinos like steg carno cera i always land

[dusky surge]

a herbivore capable of self-defense is a sin

[halcyon elk]

I will slap anyone who will complain

[halcyon elk]

@exotic viper ptera does have it I believe. Just don't press anything while doing it.

[hollow canyon]

back pouncing probably should be back

overall I'd be fine with Omni pouncing from wherever

BUT

it should get latched precisely where it hit the target

not teleport to its side

[vague helm]

Like I said I would prefer for what makes sense.

The side pounce would be great if the latency didn't screw over the hitboxes so badly.

[hollow canyon]

instead of getting a freebie by pouncing right in the face of a Teno/Carno and then avoiding getting mauled to death by being teleported to the side

[hollow canyon]

tbh the latency has to be fixed for this game

it obviously affects pouncing the most

[vague helm]

The net code in general needs improvements

[hollow canyon]

but at times I just question whether this game is even playable when it starts getting a seizure and teleports you around

and instead of having a dinosaur fight you feel like you're dancing Cha-cha

[halcyon elk]

Imo Omni should have tail pounce for animals that don't got a lot of tail. Like diablo.

[hollow canyon]

definitely

[vague helm]

Imo I still think that would be fine if impact pounce wasn't a thing.

You then could just dodge the Raptor or trade with him, getting a HS attack on him. Sure he got the pounce. But now he's so weak he can't join back in

[hollow canyon]

tailpouncing Stego is a bit more of a meh idea but in general most others should be pouncable from the back I think

or another option or perhaps an addition - make pounce faster

[balmy briar]

#balance-feedback message @thin mantle Pouncing has always been drasticly limited by how effective it can be. Trees, Walls, Any object, Gateway has them "everywhere".

[vague helm]

I despise impact pounce for latch.
For pin, sure.
But latch impact pounce is where the idea of "Rapto is just hold rmb" comes from imo

[junior harness]

A different kind of latch point for pouncing the back would be pretty fun for things that aren't stego or anything with a bad zone tail/back. Raptor rodeo time?

[hollow canyon]

so that you travel in the air faster and can recover to run away after doing the kick quicker

[vague helm]

I want pounce to only land if the Raptor is actually flying.
I despise impact pounce so much and I adore Raptor

[hollow canyon]

I don't mind impact pounce

not an issue imo

although I don't call it that

[balmy briar]

see the issue isnt it making sense. The issue is desync and latency not allowing us to pounce flanks most of the time, i admit it works quite decently on a huge stego, but thats like hitting the broad side of a bus, but as soon as the target gets to a smaller size, and cannot be pinned, the problem becomes very obvious.

especially if its agile (and thats why i think backcheck has to be taken out, to give us copium on desync, and dev should design around it, cuz its here to stay)

[vague helm]

I do.
It's what makes Raptor so "skilless".

I don't care if a Raptor pounces my ass or face and latches on my side.
I care if he can just be inside of me before I can attack and negate my attack because he just latched on.

If he had to actually fly in the air I would dodge him or snipe him properly, and even of he DOES land the pounce on my ass or face, I will have traded

On pin, sure impact pounce idc.

But I hate it on latch.

Flying pounces allow for more counterplay.
Plus, it's also way cooler

[junior harness]

Honestly didn't even know impact pounce was a thing until now

[balmy briar]

i also love becoming a airplane

[mint rain]

What playable special ability has more counter play than pounce

[balmy briar]

yeah, imo we dont need impact pounce that much, and at the same time, the minimum distance to pounce should be acceptable

since we often are found in close combat

think 5 meters ? 7?

[vague helm]

The Raptor should have to spread his arms out fully.

[balmy briar]

fair

thats about 8 meters i think?

[vague helm]

Which is roughly 1.5/2 Raptor lengths

[balmy briar]

or more like 5-8

tho the pounce is hella fast 🤔 momentum wise

maybe at 80% of animation

and then transition to the grapple

if u hit it before u stretch all the way

[vague helm]

Nah just have the Raptor need to properly spread his arms

[balmy briar]

i mean it does make sense, i also gotta spread my arms if i wanna grab onto a ledge

well.. here is too hope they will touch it to begin with

[vague helm]

Bu6 yeah impact pounce is what made "magnet pounce" seem so busted

[balmy briar]

oh yeah i figured out how to teleport with it quite fast

u could like pounce 1 edge of the hitbox, and latch on to the other side, and the prey be like, tf?

and yeh that was busted, especially when i pounced the face

but backcheck ... rlly if u get pounced from the back, you were simply not paying attention, and forcing us to a flank, might raise that attention instantly , thats my pain

then it starts running and moving, and u get claw attacks even on flank or odd angles, and ur like bruh

[exotic viper]

Don`t believe, just test it

[golden coral]

Do I understand it correctly if you mean the pounce would only work if you're at least a full body length away from the target when you start the pounce? Or at least something like that?

[vague helm]

Yes.
Where the Raptor has to actually be flying and spread its arms out.

Or else it won't latch on.

In return of course, ass and face latching returns or at least to a degree where it makes sense.
Like pouncing a carno/Cera from behind but the face won't let you

[golden coral]

What happens if you're too close then? Current kick, or something else?

[hollow canyon]

desync can't be here to stay, it's probably the biggest issue with the game rn

[daring spindle]

@exotic viper ptera can still sniff while flying

[thin mantle]

Yup, and it’s never been enough relative to its power and ease of use, an ability having limits doesn’t make those limits sufficient

[exotic viper]

Thx, i think that was due to the games broken config one has to delete manually, couldnt buck either

Nope, still cant

[daring spindle]

Ptera’s sniff range is a lot smaller now, but it should still work

[exotic viper]

It has no animation, nor sound

Can anyone else please confirm

[daring spindle]

It might have a slight animation but with how head tracking exists while smelling now it’s probably not noticeable

[rigid tulip]

exactly what im saying, at this point

i hopped on the raptor hate train when gateway came out as a former raptor main because i thought it was boring and broken but at this points its kind of a punching bag for the devs and community, and everyone tries to deny it because the more vocal people are always saying raptor is broken

[rigid tulip]

I disagree. My friend and I as carnos beat a pack of 12 by just camping trees even when raptor was in its most powerful state at the start of gateway

they literally never even made any mistakes besides us just knocking them off via tree. that was the only way any of them died

we also got caught with 0 stamina lol. truth is that if theres a sure-fire way to counter any ability on a small predator, its going to get bullied by people who learn the counter. and thats fine. raptor is just pathetic now from all the complaining

i could see why people complained, as it was situationally broken. if u were a stego in a field and got seen by 3 raptors you were dead which is kinda insane, but if you were say a cera in the woods, an entire raptor pack is kinda useless

its fine for something to be situational, and i agree it was ridiculous, but its been far overcompensated in the opposite direction by this point

[hollow canyon]

that was not even when raptor was at its most powerful state btw

[thin mantle]

Well firstly, Omni was strongest in Update 5, you literally had no excuse to lose a 1v1 during that time to anything but deino.

Secondly pounce having situational weaknesses is perfectly fine as you said but I don’t see why the locational modifiers are too limiting. Pounces value is still insanely high, if you and 1 other carno managed to kill 12….thats entirely on them for not knowing how to play their animal, they could have stood in front of you and spammed their bite attack twice each and you’d bleed out in 2 minutes with no deaths, let alone landing a short pounce or two.
I don’t understand the idea of pounce having more counters than most other abilities either, like if you go down the list of combative creature abilities pounce has one of the easiest applications. Dilo venom is honestly the only one that compares as far as ease of use.

You genuinely just need a friend to bait an attack and you’ve got a free 3 second pounce, and if they’re camping a tree they’re basically committing to fighting you till you drop or they do

Meaning you can land some pretty easy bites to keep bleeding going

Omnis bleed application per bite is also very very high, it’s not reliant on pounce for making kills it’s neutral state is better than most creatures

[tranquil lark]

this is contradicting sir

the mistake was trying to pounce a carno near a tree and not luring it in the open

and if it would not come for you, then you just grab a boar and find a target that is more suitable to go for

either way, youd not die to a carno, cuz if youd gone for them, ud be in a field, and dead

if you think about it , plains are omni territory, even tho its suppose to be Carno's. and i dont mind if something is tree camping while im strolling around the place with full freedom

(tho dilos are def taking over)

[thin mantle]

There’s also just the concept of failed hunts that many don’t seem to understand or accept

It’s fine if an engagement doesn’t end in one of the parties being killed

[keen plover]

@dense gate dilo can definitely be a protein or lipid for Carno. I do think carno needs something large on its lipids diet though since that’s always been lacking

[dense gate]

I think Carno has the smallest diet options, especially that there isnt even AI that covers all nutrients

I'd be fine with a goat to fill out // just so it can acheive 50% growth

[keen plover]

Exactly. It’s kind of sad.

[dense gate]

it currently sits that if i dont find a dryo (never even seen one) or a gali i cant grow at that rate

[dawn falcon]

It’s diet should be based on the environment it is hunting in (I think there should be no diet preferences either way, but these are alternatives)

[keen plover]

They also nerfed organs which means you need to kill either a teno or cera to get anything noticeable

[dense gate]

Cera isnt even on carnos list of options

[dawn falcon]

and should have preferences with at least 1 strong creature and 1 prey

So a strong creature in S would be Tenontos, and the “prey” would be omni.

as an example

[keen plover]

Iirc it takes like 8 - 9 Omni bodies to fill out a diet slot

Which is stupid lol

[keen plover]

The organs give you diets though

Somehow cera flesh gives you nothing but the organs do

[dense gate]

I just dont see why each animal cant basically eat any other animal, Im all for not having a carno have carno in its diet, so theres less cani stuff, but I think all scavanger dinos should have extensive diets, i think the PT should literally be able to eat any meat that isnt rotten, and have it give a diet.

I think raptors, and troodons should be able to get diets from anything , as they too are scavanger hunters, getting diets shouldnt be this specific hunting game... I think anything thats dead should somehow benefit your diet in some way... unless its your own species, thats just my opinion.

[dawn falcon]

AI I’m not even sure is needed considering food drain is going to be longer
So I’d say: S is Tenonto, Cerato , omni.
Dots are stego (younger or scavenging off larger corpses), Pachy and boar.

And finally, lipids would be Diablo, Dilo and deer,

And add onto it as you will

But this should be a baseline, considering these creatures will dwell in the plains for a good chunk of their time

[dense gate]

again, i think you should be able to reach all three diet with AI on any carnivore...

[dawn falcon]

That leads to handholding gameplay

I think you should be able to get maybe 2 nutrients, but that last one needs to be from players.

[dense gate]

every other dino has it tho besides carno lol

[dawn falcon]

Yeah and I’m saying it shouldn’t be a thing

[dense gate]

but it works well, and all of them do it fine

so why specifically leave carno out

[thin mantle]

Probably because of its mobility

Engagement authority

But still

[dense gate]

then let me hunt larger pray, like hera, cera, dilo lmao

[keen plover]

Cera only has deer and boar iirc

[thin mantle]

What’s stopping you

Go for it

[dense gate]

the idea that none of them give diet

[thin mantle]

All of them give diets through organs

[dense gate]

raptors and troodons are the only hunt for S

[keen plover]

Organs give like no diets though

[dense gate]

^ this

1 bite of organs to fight something my size like a cera doesnt seem worth it

[thin mantle]

I haven’t had that issue on anything besides Carno

Like for Herrera dilo Omni Troodon it’s been fine

Probably because they’re small, but I haven’t noticed much of an impact

[keen plover]

Makes sense. Carno needs more to fill itself

[dense gate]

well cuz they get more bites out of organs lol

[thin mantle]

I think it’s just a case of Carno having really bad nutrition and food value balancing

Like

[dense gate]

yeah, it just seems the dinos that carno hunts dont seem to fit its size and food needs

[keen plover]

Carno gets like 10 -15% diet per Omni organ

[thin mantle]

Specifically Carno

[keen plover]

Which is scuffed

[thin mantle]

Yeah

Yeah ideally you should get at a bare minimum half

[dense gate]

yeah, i think we all agree that its just not enough for carno

[keen plover]

Imo just bump up organ diet values and keep the food value the same

[thin mantle]

From one kill

[dense gate]

well my issue still is that....

// is olnly given on dryo and galli.....

[thin mantle]

I still think Carno has a severe hunger timer issue

[dense gate]

theres not a single other way besides organs to get it

[keen plover]

That’s being addressed soon

[thin mantle]

TM

[keen plover]

Hopefully this week lol

[thin mantle]

#thecycle

[keen plover]

Or was there something before that

[dense gate]

id like one more thing that we can get the // diet from

[thin mantle]

But yeah hopefully this week

[thin mantle]

There was an adjustment a couple patches ago that barely helped

[keen plover]

Dilo

[thin mantle]

Still bad

[dense gate]

dilo isnt on the list rn but that would be perfect

[keen plover]

Really

[thin mantle]

I’m desperate for dilo to be on carnos list even if I despise the list as a concept

[dense gate]

theyve been patching carno for as long, who knows where this thing will end up'

[thin mantle]

Carno is dilos only legitimate threat in this game

Well and Pachy if you min max it’s stam

[dense gate]

ceras could mess with the, too

[thin mantle]

Hmm?

[keen plover]

Lists suck. Just bump up hunger / diet timers. Increase organ diet values and it’s fine

[thin mantle]

Like we honestly don’t need diet values on the meat itself if organs function well enough

[keen plover]

I hope Carno doesn’t have a crazy long hunger timer. I think an hour is more than enough

[thin mantle]

Which for basically every other playable it’s fine as is

[dense gate]

I think the entire system needs to get thrown out, cuz then you ask - i have to starve myself to correct my diets? the system is flawed top to bottom

[thin mantle]

But for Carno it’s considerably worse and idk why

[keen plover]

Currently it’s 45 minutes *

[thin mantle]

Not an issue if you’re utilizing organs with high nutrient value

[dense gate]

right, if we correct the entire system

[thin mantle]

Tho I agree that even requiring emptiness in your food bar to fill up a nutrient is really lame

[dense gate]

then it will work fine, but i think it needs to be redone from the ground up to simulate a more regular eating/digestion phases

[thin mantle]

Because food stat values effect stamina and HP regen for example

So there being systems that encourage you not to eat so you can correct a diet is really really bizarre

[keen plover]

It was perfect when overflow was a thing

[thin mantle]

Mhm

[keen plover]

Like I could be on 90% diet. Eat a meat chunk and it would begin to fill the other slot

[thin mantle]

I miss overflow

[dense gate]

why even have diet types? just have a number system of a few things like Fat / Protein / whatever else, and let anything you eat effect all systems of intake. eating too much fat slows stam regen, things like that?

[keen plover]

Nah there was 2 versions

Both were great

[thin mantle]

I miss 300% overflow as low effort as it was

[keen plover]

One was only on the ST after embargo dropped

[thin mantle]

Because at least I wasn’t microing my food

[frail bobcat]

oh yeah

[keen plover]

Ate a teno organ and it would fill 2 slots

[thin mantle]

Which is just….impossibly unfun

[keen plover]

Rather than cap at 100% on one

[thin mantle]

Pain

[frail bobcat]

do you also remember the time where the only way omni could get lines was ptera, dryo and hypsi

[keen plover]

Yeah lol

[frail bobcat]

most Lines I got was like 86 percent once

[keen plover]

Stego was an amazing addition to that slot. So many juvis and they filled you up a lot

[keen plover]

I meat chunk glitched with Carno back in update 4 - 5 due to that

Took a deer and maxed the slot to 300%

[frail bobcat]

the amount of pteras I had to kill to get that

[keen plover]

Lmao yeah

It was impossible the legit way

Meat chunk glitch was technically possible for over 2 years

It was patched out when gateway dropped

[frail bobcat]

I legit chased off people of the ptera rock to get ptera to land there

[keen plover]

Loool

[frail bobcat]

It was so difficult to get that

impossible most of the time

[keen plover]

Yeah which meant you had to cheese it

[frail bobcat]

I was new, so i didnt know that existed

[keen plover]

Ah unfortunate

Yeah exploits aren’t usually spoken about in this game. At most people will tell you about water spots. Nothing about the truly broken stuff

[scarlet onyx]

Agreed it needs scrapping. It's such an old, outdated system by now. Prioritization doesn't work how it should, filling the diet with one nutrient is a pain in the ass because it flip flops priority on active slots, preferred foods are all over the damn place and make no sense between what youre expected to hunt and expected to scavenge and at what age. Organs are laughable and could be entirely ignored by bigger creatures because of how little diet they give, often less than a chunk's worth of food. Stamina diet is INSANELY preferred among the entire roster, the others don't even come close to useful.

I could actually go on forever about it, the whole thing is the worst mechanic in the game imo.

[halcyon elk]

They're working on a thing where you can use salt licks

[halcyon elk]

They're working a ton of stuff. I believe it will arrive with that QOL update that's going on.

[scarlet onyx]

Yeah I heard about the salt licks, not sure about the diet system as a whole tho

[halcyon elk]

If I may include a few other things. They're adding more slots I think? No more trickle down diets, among other things.

And iirc the all 3 type of diets will be buffed too.

As in the one that only does 50% growth increase

Hold on lemme get the list

Stream summary of food and diet related things (edited off of another copypaste)

• Growing takes longer without the 1 of each diet active
• 1 of each diet is getting buffed like crazy
• Salt licks will let you drain nutrients
• Diets go to a slot you already have first
• Universal increase to hunger times
  • Diets of the same kind will drain one at a time.

[stark knoll]

I think I saw someone mention the mention of (lol) the possibility of a 3-of-the-same diet draining one hex at a time, but I can't verify that

ah yea

I'm not crazy!

[halcyon elk]

I am.

But anyway. There maybe will be more slots. Heard something about 5 of something.

[dawn falcon]

I think you mean tiers

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

if a stego or teno are going on a killing spree that's more on the victim than the killer lol

[dawn falcon]

Salt licks are going to drain your nutrients

[dusky surge]

stegos are slow as hell and can only tailwhip while standing still, tenos best attacks come when it's either standing still or hitting something behind it, making it terrible on offense

[dusky surge]

also, relying on carnis to make the first move isn't really fair, because a herbivore defending itself before a carni attacks should not be punished

[slim dragon]

It's like that post that asked for herbis to only be able to damage carnis once they've been damaged themselves

[dusky surge]

add onto that if the carnis 4 call the herbis can't damage them anymore and its perfect

[keen plover]

What are these suggestions? Genuinely how are you dying to a teno or stego

[dusky surge]

more specifically how are 6 unique people all dying in 20 minutes to a teno or stego

how is this considered enough of a problem that they need a debuff for it

[keen plover]

idk why a lot of players don't like challenges. The best part about the game is the hard kills lol

Like a teno somehow getting 6 kills in a row means you ran into it and got stomped

[dusky surge]

i will never understand the need for carnivores to have easier hunts

like, the fun of carni is the challenge of hunting imho

[keen plover]

It straight up is the best part about the game. Like being a small pack vs a huge herd and picking one off is peak

[dusky surge]

its kinda why i hate dino AI lol

not the same

[mossy holly]

There was a group of like 4 tennos on a rampage at NE on na1 yesterday, that quite literally killed indiscriminately, for no purpose aside for murder itself. Even other herbivores.

[dusky surge]

run away from them and you good

[mossy holly]

Try running away when you both have less stamina and less speed than them

[slim dragon]

What has less speed and less stamina than tenos, apart from ceratos ?
Who get 2x health and knockdown resistance as soon as there is a body nearby, thus basically negating teno's main strength ?

Oh I guess deino does

[mossy holly]

I don't know the stats of most things rn, but the tenno murder pack killed upwards of 15 things at NE, pachys, a galli(somehow), a couple omnis, 4 ceras, and a smaller stego that was around 40-50% grown

And that's just what I was there to witness

So yes, I'd say that's somewhat of a problem.

[slim dragon]

not with teno

[keen plover]

Teno is only capable of running down cerato

Anything else can easily escape

[slim dragon]

Either these guys were really good, either their opponents let themselves die (probably both), either they were cheaters

[keen plover]

and for the cera, well as long as you're not on top of the teno you'll be fine

[mossy holly]

My experience as fg cera against tennos is get kicked once and you're on the ground

[solemn pier]

add the goat and dilo for carno diet

[quaint granite]

That’s why they would have to kill 6 dinos first before the punishment, there's usually not gonna be a pack of 6 things that will keep attacking it it everything else dies first

[dusky surge]

still arbitrary, because if 6 dinos die to a teno, that speaks more about the dinos it killed than the teno

[quaint granite]

And you just proved my point? If 6 dinos have been killed within 20 minutes to a Teno, the Teno is obviously just going after everything and anything? I think you forget that 70% of baby dinos are still slower than 80% of grown dinos

[frail bobcat]

Like fresh spawns or subs?

[quaint granite]

Either could work

Depends on the dino, I’d say fresh spawn was probably what I was talking about

[dusky surge]

if you're a freshspawn or sub, don't be out in the open. Go find a sanctaury. That's on you, not the teno

[frail bobcat]

Subs are usually faster than Adults, there are a few exceptions

[quaint granite]

But there are some dinos that get slower with age

[quaint granite]

Yeah until I get killed on the way to the sanctuary lol

[dusky surge]

no different to dying to a carno on the way to the sanctuary

[quaint granite]

Except I can kill a Carno as a full grown Deino

[dusky surge]

you can also kill a teno witha full grown deino lol

[quaint granite]

Yeah but the thing I was talking about isn't exclusively Tenos

[mossy holly]

You can kill Anything with a deino

[frail bobcat]

And now its gonna be about stego

[dusky surge]

if its a stego you're talking about, literally most things can outsprint it lol, and it still needs to stand still to even use its primary attack

[mossy holly]

Also you forget that that's not viable for carnivores

You need to find food

There's no food in the sanctuary

[dusky surge]

okay, but remaining hidden is still something you can and should do as a juvi

[quaint granite]

I’ll give you that, but the problem still exists that Stegos manage to go on killing sprees regardless

[frail bobcat]

Growing carnivores is so easy rn, sjth all the AI

[dusky surge]

How

literally how the hell are stegos going on killing sprees

[quaint granite]

New players??

[frail bobcat]

They cant chase anything except for crocs on land

[dusky surge]

you see the stego, you move away, it is now incapable of doing things

[dusky surge]

learning experience lol

[mossy holly]

Not cera though

Cera is forced to scavenge from spawn, which is fine if things didn't body camp

[frail bobcat]

New players gotta learn to stay away from the tail of a stego

[quaint granite]

That’s true ngl, Isla spiro (or whatever it was before) had too little AI, now we have wayyy too much

It’s to the point where if we were talking about legacy, you could grow a Rex to full grown just in the East plains spawning area

[mossy holly]

I doubt that

Considering how little a.i gives compared to legacy

[frail bobcat]

Could work, not with good diet. But could work

[quaint granite]

I don't, considering I’ve grown a Rex before

[mossy holly]

You'd need to be eating 24/7

[quaint granite]

Living off Velos

💀

[dusky surge]

legacy rex was absolutely absurd with how you could GROW AN ADULT REX off sitting in one spot and farming AI

[frail bobcat]

This is because of Food values

[mossy holly]

You could do this with everything

Literally everything

[dusky surge]

i know, hence why i specifically mention rex because the fact that it could do it is by far the most outstanding example

[quaint granite]

East plains spawn has so much AI, it’s nice but like, I wish the AI spawns were more scattered, rather than everything spawning in one spot

[dusky surge]

because it is one of the biggest and hungriest animals in legacy

[mossy holly]

They spawn based on players iirc

[dusky surge]

until players start splitting up, AI won't

[quaint granite]

News to me, is that something added recently? (recently meaning within the past few months)

[mossy holly]

East and NE are the hotspots

Where players are.

Old a.i on spiro was region based and also rarer

[quaint granite]

There were also 2 of us back then

But yeah, I still think AI spawns are kind of absurd

I was in East plains as Herra on NA6 with 20 players in the entire server, it was just me and my friend and a Deino in that pond for awhile, and there was still AI everywhere

And considering it’s honestly easier to grow the Omni now that it was to grow the Utah back in legacy

Than *

Also, I admit @dusky surge that you proved me wrong on the Herbivores, considering I’ve only died to a Pachy in Evrima because I didn't know they could jump, I really don't have anything to complain about

[mossy holly]

My only problem is still the tenno kick actually stunning people, which is a mostly free to use ability.

[quaint granite]

Fair

[mossy holly]

Used to only the tail slam would, which is both slightly easier to dodge but actually knocks you prone, and has a dedent stam footprint

But now the kick does, so why use tail slam?

[quaint granite]

My main problem is the stamina system, I actually don't think the stamina system is that bad, but to me, there should be a few different stamina systems and the dinos would be categorized into those stamina systems depending on what kind of creature they are

[dusky surge]

longer range, bigger hitbox, more useful in crowd control, good for follow ups against enemies out of your extremely short kick range

both attacks should stun

[mossy holly]

Yeah that'd be a good idea

[dusky surge]

oh, and tail slam also can stun/knockdown bigger animals than kick can

[mossy holly]

Especially with stuff like raptors and dryos always regaining stamina at all times

At a slower rate, but still regenerating

[quaint granite]

How I’d kinda have to say how to do it would be that the categories would be something like “Pack chaser” (which would include Raptors, Dilos, Troodons, Carno stuff like that, and they would have a ton of Stam but would regain it probably double the speed it currently is but nothing crazy)
Then a “Pack hunter” (which would be things like Herrera, Cerato, things like that which are more ambush predators because they can't outmatch most creatures in terms of speed, these creatures would have a large amount of Stam but not as much as chasers, and they would regain it a little faster than chasers) this is getting too long for just an idea, so Ima stop it here, y’all get the idea

[dusky surge]

sounds like a balance/design nightmare

also why are dilo/carno on the team of "pack chaser"

also, cerato isn't an ambush creature

[quaint granite]

What would you do with them?

[dusky surge]

well i wouldn't make a "niche specific stamina system" first of all

[quaint granite]

As far as I see, usually Carnos and Dilos chase their prey

In packs

[quaint granite]

It would be categories, not every creature would be able to abide by the same stamina system, considering a lot of creatures have very different playstyles

[dusky surge]

raptors, dilos, troodons and carnos both having a ton of stam and regenning it TWO TIMES FASTER is absolutely nuts

[quaint granite]

Two times faster than current

[dusky surge]

that's insane

[quaint granite]

Which current is super slow

[dusky surge]

dear God that just makes the animal insanely OP

[quaint granite]

Have you tried to regain stam in the current game?

[dusky surge]

That would make the stam generation faster than spiro

Along with the more stam of Gateway

[quaint granite]

Literally everyone hates the Stam regen rate currently

[cosmic pelican]

Pack hunters are already insanely good with the new stamina system, no need to make them Gods

[dusky surge]

i dont

[quaint granite]

That would make you the first I’ve seen

[dusky surge]

you'll see more

[cosmic pelican]

Me neither tbh, there are some outliars like beipi who need help though.

[mossy holly]

The only dino that really needs the stamina is raptor

[dusky surge]

not even

raptor is currently benefitting a great deal from the stam system

tbh, the one hit the absolute hardest by the new stam system is stego lol

[quaint granite]

Still just an idea, it’s not like I’m part of the balancing team, they would get all the stuff down

[mossy holly]

Pounce eats like half your stamina bar if you want to do anything meaningful

[dusky surge]

creating different stam systems makes the game an utter insane nightmare to balance

[junior harness]

If you're in a coordinated pack as a raptor, stam management isn't too bad from what I've seen. If one of you gets low on stam, you can sit it out while the others pick up your slack. As long as everybody doesn't dump their stam immediately, they can endurance hunt their way to any kill

[quaint granite]

Literally, attacking of any sort in Gateway is horrendous

[cosmic pelican]

2-3 omnis pouncing will almost completely drain most animals stam bar if they buck. Not to mention if you bait attacks and other stuff.

Once the target is below 25% stam its already dead pretty much

[dusky surge]

effectively dead

[quaint granite]

Just the normal LMB as a Deino takes out like a 6th of your stam

[cosmic pelican]

Cuz thats the alt attack, nornal bite doesnt take stam

[mossy holly]

Does it really? I haven't been impacted by bucking much at all my playtime

[cosmic pelican]

Turn on manual alt attack in settings

[dusky surge]

thats an alt attack

a normal LMB usually takes 0 stam

[quaint granite]

An alt attack is basically all you can use in an actual fight

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah, except on dilo, that thing has insane bucking

[mossy holly]

Why would you ever use auto altbite

[dusky surge]

as a deino, not at all lol

[quaint granite]

But either way

[mossy holly]

The only time altbite becomes important for deino is 1v1s with itself on land as you bite slightly faster

[quaint granite]

This isn't about debuffing or buffing any creature

[dusky surge]

kinda is when you want certain creatures to regen 2x faster lol

[quaint granite]

It’s just about having the stamina regen decent for getting around

[cosmic pelican]

Travel just got buffed by an insane amount

[quaint granite]

I literally didn't even have them as the fastest regen rate, I said the hunters would regen faster with a little less stam

[cosmic pelican]

You can trot back stam above 75%

[quaint granite]

I literally don't regain Stam while trotting?

[mossy holly]

I play cera, the slowest land carnivore primarily.

While Stam is actually ass in fights due to the nature of the dinosaur, travel is mostly fine if your conservative and don't drop below 50% stam

[cosmic pelican]

Your stam needs to be above 75%

[dusky surge]

if your stam isn't above 75%, then you won't regain stam while trotting

[junior harness]

The only thing I'd really say against the current stamina system is how you cannot regen while walking/crouching if you're below 50%, which isn't very great for anybody, especially anybody targeted by a pack

[mossy holly]

I would argue that just standing should give stam from 0

But a really small amount

[dusky surge]

issue with that

all non-resting regen is the exact same

for every single animal

[junior harness]

wait what. why

[dusky surge]

7 minute regen for trotting, walking, standing

[dusky surge]

WIP system

[mossy holly]

That can change

[junior harness]

Ah, okay.

[quaint granite]

I also said it was just an idea, and that I’m not part of the actual dev team so it wouldn't be me who decides how much better it would actually be

[mossy holly]

And probably should change

[latent bay]

@quaint granite if you think realistically, Stegosaurus ungulatus is 8 tonnes. Omniraptor is fictional, so for the sake of the argument let's use Utahraptor ostrommaysi

Utahraptor ostrommaysi was 650 kilograms, as slow as a Polar bear, and probably solitary considering we have zero evidence of pack hunting within large dromeosaurs (closest we can get to is a Deinonychus bone bed around a Tenontosaurus corpse which is more than likely just a bunch of deinons going insane over an already deceased animal)

650kgs and can't pounce VS 8 tonnes geared for nothing but murder

Who's winning the fight, realistically, Stegosaurus or Utahraptor?

[halcyon elk]

We do have the Canon weight of omniraptor which is 450kg

[latent bay]

Yeah but his ass is fake so he don't count as an animal

[halcyon elk]

I was gonna go into lore as a joke. But I decided not to.

[latent bay]

• he said "realistically" so anything ingame doesn't matter for the sake of the argument

Just as a baseline TI's designs can't be realistic if they aren't biologically plausible

Like Omniraptor pouncing or Carnotaurus charging

[halcyon elk]

If only they had this in the animation instead so they could use the excuse of a locking neck vertebrae to brace itself.

Theoretically it's biologically possible. Really any dinosaurs ability is plausible in the laws of biology, physics, and toxicology

[latent bay]

Rlly all depends on the animation for the ability

Yeah any of the isle's abilities can be biologically plausible

But Carnotaurus hits things with its NOSE

There are frames in Omniraptor's pounce where all 4 of the limbs aren't connected to the opponent's body iirc

Holding your mouth open a little longer than necessary doesn't all of a sudden put more power into it (cera)

[halcyon elk]

Yea that's dumb. It's head should be using the actual top of the head

[latent bay]

Path of Titans (Gallimimus)

[halcyon elk]

In some ways it's kinda right. Mobilization be weird, but the more diets the faster you go makes some sort of sense, and cera charge bite yea doesn't makes sense

[quaint granite]

Fair

[latent bay]

How does cera's charge bite make biological sense

Like i get there's readying yourself to strike, but holding your mouth open for a while is not equivalent to more energy being output in the bite

[halcyon elk]

Forgot the "doesn't."

[latent bay]

Ah alr

[median hazel]

Was hunger drain reduced? It feels longer and better , not having to eat every 10 minutes, or is it in my head lol

[heady bobcat]

it’s ture，A kick shouldn’t be a kickout

[keen plover]

Another day, another teno complaint

[distant torrent]

I love herbivore complaints

all you have to do to avoid a teno kick while running is to just veer a little away from it to get away from its pathetically small kick hitbox

[scarlet onyx]

32 slams is a bit ridiculous though, especially compared to stam pachy gets for ram

[distant torrent]

it’s perfect. its got its weaknesses, strengths, and need for skill. its strength is its endurance, which is what it should be since all of its life-saving attacks involve stamina and it can’t exactly flee from most of the carnivore roster

it especially needs its current great combat stam since it can’t exactly regen its stam after a certain point without sitting down in the middle of a fight

[median plover]

the kicks stunning is the problem

[dusky surge]

it isnt a problem

[keen plover]

Pachy ram costs 3% iirc which means it can ram 33 times. Unless its changed

I don’t see the issue. Teno is in the fight until the end

You need to kill it through damage and not because it can’t attack again

I worded that terribly 😭

[thin mantle]

Yeah I don’t see the issue

I’ve never felt satisfied getting a kill because the opponent got exhausted

It’s just like “oh I guess I win now lol”

[keen plover]

So true

[native phoenix]

The only herb that you want to run out of stam is Steg for obvious reasons, I dont see why Tenos need a decrease when they're at a disadvantage already

[halcyon elk]

@worldly quarry https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=thA9xHBLkX4&t=84s dawg ptera has really good stamina if you know what you're doing. And ptera doesn't just eat fish. Not saying they shouldn't change it. But perhaps learn to adapt to the issues that plague us as of rn.

[dusky surge]

@sly helm they're working on diablo, but alberto is far too strong for the current roster with no fair matchups

rex and trike will be unofficial only

[sly helm]

Ah thanks for the response. Nice to hear they are working on dibble.

As for rex and trike. If it's only for unofficial I would stop production of them right away and focus on the animals they actually want to bring in.

[dusky surge]

dibble is actually the next animal to arrive

they REALLY want rex and trike in soon, because they want to see how apexes impact the system, and what adjustments need to be made to make apexes appropriately challenging to play

also a lot of stuff from dibble is getting ported to trike because they're both ceratopsians

[sly helm]

Okay cool 🙂 thx for all the info mr acro

[worldly quarry]

my issue with the stam is that if im fishing (which yes theres other food sources but fishing tends to be the main one and what ptera is intended to do) is that i have to land to eat the fish, which give almost no food so its a rinse and repeat and everytime i land i have to take off again which uses a ridculous amount of stam. if they reduced stam drain from takeoff or just better yet didnt make a 5kg hatchling ptera have to eat 20kgs of fish to fill its stomach it would be a lot better

[halcyon elk]

Try latching to a tree, it takes no Stam to take off from.

[warm sail]

One method to save stamina is to fish a few fishes without landing (short story long, make a fish pile next to the river) and when you have enough, land and eat them all. Then repeat. When I'm busy eating my stamina is coming back a bit. The only con of this method is to be careful of deinos and other dinos who can steal your fish pile but it can help reduce the stam drain by constantly having to land to eat one fish at a time !

[worldly quarry]

i like this idea

forgot you could just drop while flying tbh

[warm sail]

yeah its very useful 😁

[halcyon elk]

You also can latch to trees for a similar result

[odd pebble]

@dusky surge aint no way you're fine with growth times being doubled 💀

[dusky surge]

given that hunger and thirst times are also significantly increased, I am

Also I just played cerato, roamed around, ate whatever I found and grew comfortably so I really don't see the issue. I had more time exploring than AFKing because the game didn't punish me instantly for moving

the growth times have to be longer if the hunger times are also longer

[odd pebble]

Sure, carnis could make it work since they need to move around for finding food. But it is still not acceptable due to the fact that you're suuper vulnerable with during most of your growth cycle. So due to that the most optimal strategy will be to camp a bush until you're hungry or thirsty because why roam around when you're fragile as hell and risk losing all your progress.

The herbi gameplay is completely screwed over by this change. Their gameplay loop was already extremely boring due to the migration zones but this just made that unbearable even more

I would've been fine with a mild increase, but doubling the growth times is just way too much

[halcyon elk]

It's a start to where dinosaurs can be adjusted accordingly

[odd pebble]

I hope so

Cuz this change just encourages AFKing more than ever before

[halcyon elk]

Why does your pvp kinda look like an oviraptor sticking its tounge out?

[odd pebble]

Lol its from the toothless dancing meme

[halcyon elk]

Or an oviraptor screaming

[halcyon elk]

I know, but i can't unsee it.

[quasi flare]

So I know they want us doing multi core diets in the horde testing now for better grow times, but once you hit FG is there any reason you shouldn't go back to single core diets? For example as a carnivore heavily dependent on sprinting and stam regen, is there any reason I wouldn't want triple dots anymore over 2 dots and an S or 1 of each?

[halcyon elk]

It's more for personal specialization.

You could go for all 3 and have a lot of good buffs, and have a general good diet. Or you could specialize your diet to a specific think.

[dense gate]

They are looking into ways to benifit the older dinos quoted here "The diet system has been adjusted to include new “tiers”. We believe that the system was far too lenient on players that would fill their diet slots with just one type of nutrient, and not adequately rewarding players who had two or three nutrients of their preferred diet. Without revealing the raw numbers, having a mixed diet will now yield the best bonuses and possessing all three nutrients will greatly increase growth speed as well as wield the bonuses from other dietary combinations. There have also been additional considerations on how this can be applied to older dinosaurs when the elder and mutation systems arrive." @quasi flare

[halcyon elk]

Tier1: 10% Any one nutrient
Tier2: 15% 2 of the same nutrient
Tier3: 20%(?) 3 of the same nutrient
Tier4: 30% 2 different nutrients, one empty slot
Tier5: 50% 2 of one nutrient, 1 of another
Tier6: 100% 1 of each nutrient
Btw I got the tiers here.

[dense gate]

is the % in regards to growth speeds? seant regen, stam?

[quasi flare]

but the draw is growth speed correct? If I want stam regen there's still no better combo than 3 dots right? And in my experience dinos like raptor or carno basically want all the sprint reduction/stam regen they can possibly get. Even at the cost of health regen or NV/scent radius.

[halcyon elk]

Growth rate.

[halcyon elk]

And you can do that! It's completely up to you. It's just a choice between either specializing for one thing over the other.

[stark knoll]

1 of each gives you all of the other diet combo bonuses

I'm not sure if they're weaker or the same as the 3-of-a-kind diet

[quasi flare]

I guess what I'm getting at is there's personal preference and then there's one diet being so much more optimal for your species that you really only have the illusion of choice. NV/Scent and health regen might be nice in addition to stam regen but it's objectively not as good as going to 25% stam regen over the 15% you get at 2 dots. Now if one of each diet gave 15% of each thing then I might understand why one might go for all 3, but currently it just seems best to optimize your stam with how heavily combat and travel is tied to your ability to manage stam. Maybe I'm overlooking something. I guess I just thought the bonuses would be better for multi cores and I'm not seeing it yet in the horde branch.

[halcyon elk]

Example being: let's say a teno just wiped its diets and wants to have a new build. There's 4 ways it can go.

1. the balanced diet that gives a good spread of each buff.
2. The diet specialized for stamina that allows for a teno to deal out more damage from an increase in attacks.
3. Night vision-scent range to find specific predators.
4. Healing diet made to make you more tanky and take less damage.

And this isn't even getting into the mixed diet combinations.

It's entirely dependent on your playstyle/personal preference.

While imo the single diet types and mixed diet types should give more than the all 3 in terms of raw stats in their specialized fields. But if you want a generalized gameplay style all 3 is for you.

Combining this with more adjusted growth speeds, as they definitely need tuning, it can strike a good balance between growth and other things

[red sequoia]

I saw something about the tric coming?? Did they say when??

[stark knoll]

There are no ETAs

[daring spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/incredibles-titan-incredibles-titan-incredibles-meme-the-incredibles-meme-gif-24953428

And there’s no ETAs

[rigid tulip]

if dibble cant kill allo im uninstalling

[opal plover]

maybe next year, dunno

[dusky surge]

do i have some bad news for you

allo is like double the size and can pin cera to the ground, which is very close in size to dibble

[tropic horizon]

so happy that it effectively gets a deino lunge to use as its main ability :>

[dusky surge]

incredible stuff

[tropic horizon]

we truly needed deino v2, theropod boogaloo

[dusky surge]

and people want it in the current ecosystem

[dusky surge]

oh no, that's acro

it grabs things by the neck and chokes them to death

except it can grab things larger than it, and deino can't

they display this by showing us an adult trike and an adult camara getting killed by a solo acro

[tropic horizon]

also I find it a lil silly that its concept shows it grabbing a trikes neck, yknow, the animal that would be defending its neck more than any dino short of an anky

literally physically impossible to grab it without getting skewed but oh well

[halcyon elk]

@sudden kite https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=thA9xHBLkX4&t=84s ptera does still have good stamina, just gotta use it wisely.

My bad traditional for the missping

[stark knoll]

Tagged the wrong guy

[halcyon elk]

WHOOPS

[halcyon elk]

@west sequoia

[sudden kite]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-cat-meme-meme-meme-cat-gif-14470917232397934693

[dusky surge]

poor traditional

dragged into this

[halcyon elk]

I am so sorry my dude

[sudden kite]

It's okay

[odd pebble]

@lavish cliff iirc, the devs are working on making a mechanic that allows playables to "step over" objects upto a certain height

[eager goblet]

#balance-feedback message

@haughty mason boar isn’t even on Ceras diet. Its why I don’t play cera

Because you can’t play it in a relaxed manner

[slim dragon]

@alpine plover That's because bodies are draggable

[alpine plover]

u can have both

ive seen both in games

[slim dragon]

what do you mean ?

Bodies becoming static then physical again when someone drags them ?

[alpine plover]

yeah

[slim dragon]

Yeah I guess that would be possible
But that's usually pretty janky

[alpine plover]

in my experience it hasent been janky

they way i see it, is you either have a bug that makes ur body be static when it should be fluid sometimes, or you have a laggy game, always

[slim dragon]

Or you have a bug that makes the entire server crash whenever someone tries to drag a body

[alpine plover]

ive never seen that, ever.

[slim dragon]

It's happened with this game

[alpine plover]

well then they did something wrong in the coding process

im not saying theyre bad at coding but people do make mistakes

ark does it perfectly

well maybe not perfectly... but it does it pretty well

[slim dragon]

I wouldn't say Ark does anything perfectly tbh

[alpine plover]

far from

ark has laggy servers yes, but imagine if every single corpes was fluid always, it would be unplayable

[slim dragon]

What I mean by jank is that in many games that have objects than turn from static to physical when interacted with is that they jitter or get flung everywhere
Multiply that with the lag caused by a 100 players game and trying to grab something will get it thrown into the moon
I'm not saying it isnet feasible, but it probably has underlying issues that made devs not do that (yet)

[alpine plover]

thoes are solid objects thoe, like a jug, it cant move at all when it needs to be fluid, so it dosent know what to do when somebody trys to put it lower than it can go, but in the isle the bodys are ragdolls on top of being fluid the entire model is fluid so i dont think that would even happen in the first place

just imagine how many bodys there are, constanly being rendered and just constantly being worked on by the servers

that is way more than trying to compute "turn off ragdoll" after 5 seconds of a body being on the floor

what i do see happening thoe is t posing corpses

[hallow hinge]

can someone explain me how pacy can broke my leg with tap pounce to my tail ?

[dusky surge]

pachy cant pounce

[hallow hinge]

ram*

why u so mad always ?? get some help bro

[dusky surge]

how is that mad lol

anyway answer is "lag" lol

[hallow hinge]

u always answer cocky for no reason

[slim dragon]

pachy can't pounce tho

[hallow hinge]

u blind ?

[dusky surge]

good point

[slim dragon]

as a matter of fact, yes

[hallow hinge]

good job clown 😄

[slim dragon]

I can't see you seething I'm blind

[hallow hinge]

good point

[hallow hinge]

do u have anything to say not blinded clown ? 😄

[dusky surge]

huh?

what are you talking about lol

[keen plover]

What are you playing

Anyways

That’s down to latency

[hallow hinge]

i was raptor many people say tap ram dont break bone easyly but every time i play against pacy they just body block and tap ram it always broke my leg

thnx for the answer btw

[keen plover]

Yeah pachy fractures with tap ram vs Omni

It doesn’t vs larger stuff but Omni gets one tapped (as in fractured) by it

[hallow hinge]

ahhh it's so annoying like dodging 6 ram and one lag and become paralized :/

[hallow hinge]

actually not suprised omni got one tapped almost from everything lol i should have know that

[keen plover]

You need like 2 omnis for a pachy

I wouldn’t do it solo since even if they suck, one laggy hit is all they need

[hallow hinge]

yeah 2/3 times i die cuz of this

[keen plover]

Yep. Just avoid the matchup as lame as that sounds

[scarlet onyx]

I always take pachy on slopes even 1v2 when I'm omni lmao. Bout half the time they ram downhill to their death or the ram bugs out on the terrain uphill and they get a really long stun. Pretty abusive tbh

[keen plover]

That works well yeah

[keen plover]

<@&933486433342222376>

[livid pendant]

Why does a 1.8 ton monster need to charge for 5 seconds to knock down a 450 kilos little dino

[obtuse ocean]

That is a good question lol

[crimson echo]

Skill issue

[halcyon elk]

Balancing to prevent people from spamming the crap out of it. It's a utility tool not a "click this button to instantly win"

[livid pendant]

No one talked about changing the cooldown . Im talking about a 1.8 run over a 450 kilos should knock it the f down lol

[halcyon elk]

It doesn't? If so that's odd.

[livid pendant]

You have to charge for like 5 seconds before impact to knock it

I get a teno or similar weight . But smth that is 4 times smaller than me lol

[halcyon elk]

No? You have to run for 5 seconds. You can charge after that.

[dusky surge]

i think the problem with charge is they have this "hold for the charge for 5 seconds for it to be effective" system but also "we will melt 500 stam from you if you use this ability for 1 second"

[slim dragon]

Eat grass and... Wait

[halcyon elk]

Herbis don't just eat grass and die anymore???

[livid pendant]

Yeah exatcly

[dusky surge]

stam cost def needs reduction

[quick frigate]

so like me and my friend were playing pt and we spawned at water access and we both spawned inside like a cave but there is no way out i guess it's like where multiple bit rock formation come together and there is a gap in the center but there is no escape so now i got to sit here until my pt dies from starvation or dehydration to respawn

[stark knoll]

@hallow sonnet #isle-discussion message

[hallow sonnet]

"insert welcome to Jurrasic park meme here"

[hollow canyon]

the issue is the former, Carno charge being required to go on for sometime before it reaches its target to knock it down is nonsense

the only situation where this would be acceptable is if Carno kept on getting faster the longer it charges

overall - Carno should knock stuff down if it charges them even if it started charging a fraction of a second before reaching them end of story

[orchid basalt]

Yea

[fossil gazelle]

Is deino able to one shot Omni?

[cosmic pelican]

Deino has 500 bite force and omni weights 450kg. So yeah pretty easily.

[fossil gazelle]

I thought Omni was 500kg?

[cosmic pelican]

Its 450, been like that for a while now

Pachy is 500kg

[fossil gazelle]

Ohh

[hallow hinge]

bro they had to cuz many people spam charge and run and u have nothing to do

and i also wonder how 1.800 kg monster can run faster than almost all other dino and have almost same stam regen time ???

[dusky surge]

because its built biologically to do so lol

[hallow hinge]

if we look that way trodon need to be fastest ??

[dusky surge]

no?

[hallow hinge]

i suggest u search

and many raptor type of raptor faster than 55 km/h

[dusky surge]

are any of those raptor types in the game

[hallow hinge]

basically omnis almost same with deinon his speed must be around with him

[dusky surge]

the google popup source not filling me with confidence

[tropic horizon]

Objection: troodon is an invalid genus

[dusky surge]

troodon isnt a valid genus (and the troodon we have LITERALLY isn't a valid anything)

omni... isn't deinonychus lol

[hallow hinge]

😄 i didnt say same

[dusky surge]

also carno's whole entire gameplay niche is "big, fast, lacks agility"

the way you deal with it is superior agility. An omni with 70km/hr would be ridiculous

[hallow hinge]

ahh now u talking about GAMEPLAY

u such a clown bro pls dont talk with me

[dusky surge]

as an additional point

i specifically phrased it as an additional point

carno is still biologically built to be fast

[hallow hinge]

there diffirence between fast for short distance and long

for example cheetah

[dusky surge]

what

what does total distance covered have to do with immediate speed

[tropic horizon]

I agree that he is such a clown for bringing up valid points!!!!

[hallow hinge]

are u taking these info from carno himself lol

[eternal oak]

nothing... although how fast you can run for x amount of time is something.

also you guys arguing or having an... aggressive discussion..

[hallow hinge]

i will give an example for his lil brain. for example a wolf can be slower than cheetah but he can go further distences without resting

[dusky surge]

ask him lol

[dusky surge]

that has literally nothing to do with speed. the wolf is slower

[hallow hinge]

am just telling truth 😄

ahahaha

this guy lives in a cave or something ?

[dusky surge]

top speed isn't calculated by how much you rest lol

[eternal oak]

well it does kind of have something to do with speed. take us... humans... we can run nonstop for goddamn ages... but we really dont run fast at all... while we may be able to run further but itll take us way longer

[dusky surge]

my car is faster because its more fuel efficient

[eternal oak]

ok bro, chill

[hallow hinge]

lol

[tropic horizon]

I honestly don’t even know what’s going on anymore-

[eternal oak]

i just got here...

[hallow hinge]

bro he is have some issues dont mind him

[eternal oak]

who?

[hallow hinge]

mr acro

i saw many people ignore him

[dusky surge]

you're doing a real bad job at it

[tropic horizon]

For what exactly?

[eternal oak]

seems calm and reasonable... unlike well... you...

[hallow hinge]

he just try to make people angry

he is good at it not gonna blame

[dusky surge]

im really not lol

[eternal oak]

the hell did bro say?

[tropic horizon]

What did he ever do to you? Did He unleash a troodon horde into your backyard or somethin lol

[dusky surge]

i think hes confused speed with velocity

[hallow hinge]

ahahaha whenever i ask something he just pop up and talking with no sense

[eternal oak]

the hell are you even arguing about anyways...

[dusky surge]

i actually dont know

like something to do with speed?

[eternal oak]

something to do with carno or something... which is where speed came in...

[dusky surge]

i think he thinks carno is too fast or everything else is too slow

[eternal oak]

ah...

[hallow hinge]

i said its no make sense

[dusky surge]

yea that

[eternal oak]

what makes no sense

[hallow hinge]

imo carno need to drain more stam while running

bigger muscles need more enrgy and it gets harder to feed

[tropic horizon]

I mean in terms of real world rules yeah it probably doesn’t but this is a videogame with tons of things that don’t abide by real world rules such as: Beipi being a duck pretty much, just cerato entirely, and troodon, and dilo, among many other things

[dusky surge]

it drains stam faster than basically everything but cera, stego and deino, so you already got it

[hallow hinge]

just barely bro

[dusky surge]

but it still does

[hallow hinge]

not enough imo

[dusky surge]

also carno being a short sprint burster is really, really lame for it

[eternal oak]

lots of things are off about carno... stam is the least of them...

[hallow hinge]

i know mate

[dusky surge]

honestly it drains stam too fast imho (but only when charging, its running stam is fine)

[tropic horizon]

Everything else has better stam than it, so everything that needs to run from it CAN run from it so I don’t really see the problem

[eternal oak]

it is mostly the charge that is well... messed up...

[dusky surge]

the charge is really, really bad

[hallow hinge]

but in game if carno dont wanna die u cannot kill

i want to change that

[dusky surge]

thats the case for most creatures

[vale brook]

what the hell is feedback turning into

what is this

80 KM/H??? FOR TROODON???

[dusky surge]

dont worry too hard about it lol

[vale brook]

https://tenor.com/view/tiffany-pollard-tnyp3-new-york-gif-5674095

[tropic horizon]

The charge on live is almost as inconsistent as raptor’s pounce it either works as intended burning all of your stamina in the process or you instantly knock someone over because of bugs

[hallow hinge]

ahahah he asked some biological fact so i send this

ofc it would ruin gameplay

[vale brook]

none of that is biological fact

[dusky surge]

i didnt ask for biological fact, i just gave you a reason as to why an 1800kg monster can run fast

[tropic horizon]

I highly doubt the validity of those “facts”

[vale brook]

its the first result on google when you search "fastest dinosaur ever"

[tropic horizon]

Plus troodon isn’t even a real animal

[dusky surge]

because carno is physically built for running fast

[vale brook]

also why are we discussing biological fact for a video game that has never prided itself on realism?

[hallow hinge]

u guys have any document for there FACTS

[dusky surge]

the main thing we know about carno is that it ran really fast in a straight lines

[tropic horizon]

^^

[hallow hinge]

i would love to see if u have

[viral tulip]

I mean carno is built to run fast but regens stamina slower as a trade off

[hallow hinge]

thats the point bro it's not slow

almost same with others

[tropic horizon]

And compared to other dino’s it’s stam pool is really small

[dusky surge]

i made an off-comment i didnt realise this was going to devolve into a realism argument

[tropic horizon]

Which we should never go to because this game ISNT REALISTIC

[vale brook]

i just came in seeing insanity

[hallow hinge]

also need to be balanced about many things

[dusky surge]

carno isn't really that OP tho

if anything it's in a rather lackluster spot

its charge is just godawful to use

[tropic horizon]

Eh? It’s situationally op but yeah you’re right there

[tropic horizon]

*When it’s working properly

[vale brook]

carno needs to charge off a cliff

[hallow hinge]

actually its op if compare other dinos

[dusky surge]

not really no lol

i honestly rarely die to carnos

[vale brook]

dilo
stego
deino

[dusky surge]

they're really easy to avoid

[hallow hinge]

how many times u can kill 😄

[dusky surge]

do not pretend stego is on the team lol

[tropic horizon]

I’d say that’s only true in regards to its fight vs cerato because cerato gets dunked on by carno if they’re equally skilled

[dusky surge]

thats more of an issue with cerato tho

[hallow hinge]

for example yeah as a cera u need to fight u dont have chance to escape

[tropic horizon]

Mfw the corpse bully gets bullied by everything it’s supposed to bully

[vale brook]

stego is OP when you take into consideration the way the community plays the game

looking purely at stego though, its not too bad

[hallow hinge]

but carno can escape from other dinos

this is not balanced

[dusky surge]

stego is actually garbage objectively sadly

[vale brook]

not that im saying you should take community play style into consideration

[dusky surge]

its literally dog

[tropic horizon]

Yeah you’re right with that since cera has practically no way to fight it off if the carno plays well

In 6.5 when it had acceleration if it messed up charging at you the cera could punish the carno for missing, now it just zooms away with instant acceleration

[hallow hinge]

yeahh u understand me

he fast stong and tank

[vale brook]

cera needs to be more corpse bully-ish

i feel like they were too scared to lean really far into it with release and it left cerato in this middle ground of kinda niche but also not niche

[hallow hinge]

charge may be sucks but still too much

[halcyon elk]

Maybe if he had his original resist to damage?

[tropic horizon]

Also the charge even without the stun does ridiculous damage to cera, like 300-400 ish to the head, which is also insanely easy because cerato has the largest head of any animal in the game

[vale brook]

meh, whatever makes him able to absolutely stand his ground and steal more corpses

[halcyon elk]

Original resist on bodies + the stun resist would make cera very strong.

[tropic horizon]

But would also make it be able to STAND ITS GROUND for once because that is simply not possible in the current branch

[hallow hinge]

imo if carno drain much stamina while running would be good change

[vale brook]

we alr know cera is getting a buff soon

hopefully its good

[eternal oak]

could also fix carno charge...

[dusky surge]

it'd just destroy the entire point of carno as a plains sprinter. Ambush sprint burst carno sucked

[tropic horizon]

This here would be nice

[eternal oak]

last i played carno the thing got noticeably more powerful when i entered the forest

[hallow hinge]

actually not carno should run entire map with 3 dots diet

[halcyon elk]

Carno being our ambush/pursuit predator that uses its charge as a utility.

[dusky surge]

thats terrible

[halcyon elk]

That's gallimimus.

[dusky surge]

diet reliance sucks

[hallow hinge]

carno can remain pretty much tho mate

not as much as galli but

[tropic horizon]

Getting rid of instant acceleration would be nice but I doubt they’ll ever do that

[hallow hinge]

yah this kinda kills agile's specialty

[eternal oak]

personally i think ambush carno but i just want him to be something instead of everything, and nothing

[halcyon elk]

I don't mind it. BUT. I think they should make the skids for turns take longer since you gotta deaccelerate

[dusky surge]

ambush carno still terrible if we want it to be a plains hunter (and not worse allo)

[halcyon elk]

Like if you get juked your gonna have to wait a moment to stop and full turn.

[dusky surge]

like literally ambush carno is just allo for people who wanna be different

[hallow hinge]

ambush carno is pretty good if u play decent

[eternal oak]

id just make allo the plains hunter instead

[halcyon elk]

Yes but it's just a worse allosaurus. Hence why we won't do it.

[tropic horizon]

Do NOT give it 6.5 accel but give it at least some acceleration because right now id say the insta accel is its biggest strength because it can practically negate its agility problem while also being able to avoid literally every single attack in the game by holding down sprint for 1 second

[eternal oak]

the skins reflect it and allo wont be a thing for a while