balance-feedback-discussion

[cobalt dagger]

Someone mentioned venom resistances...

Perhaps, whatever 'counters' Rex would be venomous, and rex especially weak to that venom while other things were more resistant to it?

A venomous apex, not dilo. Dilo is too tiny.

I have no idea what the venom would do I'm just suggesting it since, in nature, probably nothing 'countered' rex.

But venom seems like a good concept to use as an 'excuse' for why a creature could make rex fear at all.

Maybe it could be a venom that hurts vision

But, I am sure a rex's method of defense is always to hold it's ground, so this thing would still need to loose the face-tank against it...

Otherwise if rex can't hold it's ground it dies with no control.

Unless this thing has worse stamina than rex

[golden coral]

Assuming things otherwise stays the same, which they might not. And I need to go and do stuff, so I'll leave you with, if a herbi grazes, they can only get about 20% food, which means they will bleed like, well, a carno. So it's not as good as you might think, when every little bleed damage does a whole lot more to you. Well, rex would run away from a stego if nothing else, considering how slow stego is!

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah I know grazing is awful, but they'd be alive.

The idea with the counter is that you'd only need 1 around to make life very hard for the 20-30 people playing a single species, so if stego countered something (It might be too slow to work as a counter to anything) you'd only need one of them

[frail bobcat]

@heady bobcat Tenos are fighters, they got one of the deepest attack pools in the entire game

[cosmic pelican]

The weak herbivore should fear the far superior carnivore less than half its size

Jokes aside though, a 3 second cooldown on all attacks would make teno beiond garbage

The only carnivore it can actually run away from is cerato, which isnt even supposed to hunt...

[slim dragon]

Make teno's attacks slower than stego's

Actually
It would take more time for a teno to claw twice than for Cera to perform a fully charged bite

[cosmic pelican]

Also bring back the bug where all its attacks cost 3x more stam than intended

Perfect herbivore

[slim dragon]

If by "perfect" you mean

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/1187576325574238238/text.gif?ex=659763a4&is=6584eea4&hm=8a6361e7f4e655e2d488233cd94b1dada6b45dcfa099a42396d0d92d4a5c0e7d&

then yes, it would be absolutely peerless

[elder quartz]

u cant say its good if omni is loosing his all entire stam while running to his prey and he needs atleast like 50-70% stam to fight and go hit and run and retreat. if hes loosing on following his prey like 50% stamina u cant fight anymore... On carno like same 1 charge and -30% stamina. while fighting u lose like all stamina. literally a stego, tenno can outrun u after u fought them? what is this?

agree?

[cosmic pelican]

omni can trot down everything except troodon and teno, so wasting your stam running to them is a dumb idea. Getting ran down by a stego is an insane achievement though.

[elder quartz]

bro how i should get them if the prey is literally just walking away like tenno or smt? they got fast trotting spead and good stamina too. i have to less stamina to fight literally

[elder quartz]

and dilo can have more? and omni need stamina to make his special attack and he got so less stamina, this isnt fair for omni. dilo is a enemy that only need stamina while running. he dont need the stamina extra for a bite or smt. so why he got more stamina than omni?

u can make me understand. but i want to understand it

[cosmic pelican]

if its already far away and trotting away yeah youre better off leaving a teno alone. your best bet is to track it until it stops to drink/eat/rest and then attack

[cosmic pelican]

dilo and omni have the same runtime, but yeah dilo is overtuned that isnt a secret

[elder quartz]

oh yeah nice, can u tell me why they should add a OP Dinosaur that destroys the gameplay of all others?

[cosmic pelican]

the devs said that we should treat this as an open ST, meaning things may not be finished (dilo and herrera diets) and/or unbalanced

they were doing balance testing last week, so dilo will get its much needed nerf soon enough

but new carnivores being insanely overpowered is nothing new to this game

cera on release could facetank stegos to death

[elder quartz]

are you spouting myths?

[stark knoll]

It legit could

Vomiting was basically a stun

[elder quartz]

^^

[cosmic pelican]

there are videos, heck, even gifs showing ceras vomitlocking stegos to death

[elder quartz]

this is random..

[cosmic pelican]

yeah that gif was weird haha

[elder quartz]

if i hear that, remembers me to the isle :D

[eager goblet]

#balance-feedback message

I agree with you, however animals like elephants IRL will bodycamp especially if its their child that was killed. Lions would kill a young elephant then need to leave the area for a day or so until the mother elephant comes to terms with the loss. Its pretty sad to see actually.

Which ties into another thing.
Carnivores desperately need a slower food drain. Lets use lions again. They can make a big kill, like a giraffe, last a pride of 6-12 several weeks. Crocodiles catch blue wildebeest then they don’t have to eat for more than a year. I think to keep things alive carnis in this game only need to eat every few days

[keen plover]

@uncut trellis I agree tbh. Omni face pouncing was always cancerous due to how ‘tanky’ it is. Troodon is always one shot so it’s not as bad + troodon also needs to constantly pounce to bring down prey, so no face pouncing is rough

[uncut trellis]

Exactly, either this or they need to have longer openings to inflict venom

[stark knoll]

@alpine plover Deinos can only grab things that are half their weight or less

[alpine plover]

not really how stuff works irl is it

a fat dude weighing 300 stone isnt gonna be able to pick the average person up because hes fat would he

And like i said, they aren't slowed and there's nothing you can do

no bucking like when someone pounces you, i dont shee why it should be 50% weigt for all stages of growth since actual size matters

[scarlet onyx]

@quasi flare That's just a problem shared by all carnivores now because the nerfs to organ values were waaaaaaayyyy too harsh

A lung from another animal of your size literally gives about 5-10% food, not even both lungs will fill a slot

[grizzled anchor]

@vivid gyro fun fact the dilo already gives stripes diet for ceras

[dusky surge]

it does? i've never seen it on the diet

[slim dragon]

Replace fat with the same amount of muscle and now it makes sense

[obtuse ocean]

Why use irl or realistic? Then a grown deino wouldt need to grab much, it would just swallow you whole without grab. Carno would insta kill a omni

[alpine plover]

It's weight isn't in its entire jaw alone is it

[dusky surge]

a great deal of its muscle is in its jaw

[alpine plover]

Nah I could solo these deinos irl

[dusky surge]

i wish they were alive so i could watch the fight on liveleak

[alpine plover]

Look at their eyes

You could just Claw their eyes out

There's absolutely nothing that's gonna stop me from ripping it's eye lids off

Light work from there

[dusky surge]

thats very cool but what does this have to do with them grabbing you lol

[alpine plover]

Right

Okay so

They're so small they couldn't even lift themselves up to bite torso

The torso

Point is Frog when you can carry half your weight whilst running at full speed with that weight wriggling around you can defend deino

[dusky surge]

deino can't sprint while grabbing things

that's a change that was made in U6.5

[tropic horizon]

The ptsd consumes me

Seeing sub deinos sprinting at 32 kph while grabbing fully grown tenos and carnos is a horror I’m glad is gone from the game

[dusky surge]

U6 deino

[tropic horizon]

I hadn’t played for nearly a year up until U6’s release and seeing that was genuinely horrific to me

[dusky surge]

i still love how U6 existed and people still think Gateway or the herrera/dilo update is worse

U6 is without a doubt the worst of the worst when it comes to this game

[tropic horizon]

Yeah there is ZERO comparison with these patches

[dusky surge]

gateway has bad balance? U6
optimisation is garbage? Dear lord U6
hotspots? Try living outside of centre in U6

[tropic horizon]

U6 gave nearly no content and the only thing it did was create more issues imo, the organs are nice to have in the game but that’s literally it. Worst update BY FAR

[dusky surge]

U6.5's cerapocalypse was also pretty bad tbh, arguably worse than the dilopocalypse

Because at least in the dilopocalypse, several animals can turn around and throw hands with the dilos

[tropic horizon]

On launch that was true but after solving the infinite vomit lock with cera I didn’t find much issue with its existence, only thing that made it frustrating was the terrible map design of spiro since it was such a tiny map which enabled those cera death squads in the first place

[dusky surge]

Endurance cera remained a consistent frustration from U6.5 to Gateway

Dilophosaurus honestly has a similar issue where it has WAY too much stam for its niche

but unlike cera it gets crumpled by a good deal of the roster, and is hyper-vulnerable to bleeding

[tropic horizon]

I mean cera still gets trash canned by most of the roster without playing insanely carefully but I like that more than the mindless death machine it was on launch

Cera feels like a real thrill to play since you’re pretty squishy compared to your main rivals

[grizzled anchor]

Its not listed on the diet but it gave me stripes diet when I ate one. Its only logical to give cera and croc diet tho since they're supposed to be the garbage trucks of The Isle 😄

[dusky surge]

i dont disagree

[grizzled anchor]

Living outside of center was VERY easy tho, NW was alive and after U6.5 even south was alive. I spawned in center for my first meal but rarely visited it afterwards. Compare that to NE and E hotspots on gateway those are waaay worse which might just be due to the fact that of the map being bigger of course but kinda sad imo

[grizzled anchor]

Thats what I dislike about the current cera. It was supposed to be able to bully people off of their bodies since it can barely hunt anything itself but now its only the cleanup crew. mindless death machine isnt great either but it can't really fight alot of things even a dilo can 1v1 kill a cera pretty easily

[dusky surge]

i mean dilo itself is insanely busted, especially against an animal like cerato

[grizzled anchor]

Yeah I dont really get what they thought when implementing the venom mechanic lol. "Lets make a dinosaur with ranged attacks" or something like that XD also taking away scent, the ability to see and when you want to run your whole screen is in fog, great fun XD

[tropic horizon]

The nice thing about cerato though is that if something smaller than you is getting up in your face and doing a lot of damage you can always jump into the water and dare them to do something about it but yeah I agree with you that it could be a bit stronger

[distant torrent]

I wouldn’t mind cera having better body buffs now that it isn’t the endurance vomit lock god that can get bile from a few frogs or a few bites of fresh food. otherwise, that’s really the only thing it needs so it can better bully people off of bodies (without making it a better hunter. for those that don’t know, reminder that it’s supposed to be a scavenger lol)

people love trying to play cera like it’s a mini rex that should be able to easily take on and hunt everything it sees

[grizzled anchor]

true hes a quite decent swimmer but I dare you to try that in NE, you won't survive that often XD

[tropic horizon]

Yeah that’s why I usually avoid the pond and rivers of NE at all costs

[grizzled anchor]

Well he can hunt things if he ambushes smartly and/or something stumbles into his way, but I dont think buffing its fighting capabilities would make it a better hunter since hes not fast enough to hunt anything down so they should play around a little to balance him. Evven without the body buffs it should be able to defend itself to some degree, rn 1v1 between cera without body buff and carno if both players are equally skilled is a win for the carno at all times and the cera can't flee so it should have a chance of fighting back imo

[grizzled anchor]

I would love to run around in highlands or south plains but you'll probably starve there from my experience or build up massive debuffs since cera cant rely on AI only :/

[distant torrent]

imo cera shouldn’t be winning a 1v1 against a carno without a body. at least not easily. it’s 1300kg vs 1800 kg

now if it’s in the forest and not the plains? yea I think cera should have the advantage. preferably by carno having consequences for running into trees or sliding into them because it’s so fast

[tropic horizon]

It should be hard but carno can literally face tank cera which is absolutely stupid

[distant torrent]

at least that advantage is starting to happen since carno can’t knock down anything unless it charges for like 5 or so seconds

[tropic horizon]

Plus carno has the very fun and balanced insta ram still despite supposedly being removed

[halcyon elk]

It takes 5 seconds to be able to start using it my dude.

[tropic horizon]

And even without the knockdown the charge deals around 400 damage to you

[halcyon elk]

??? It doesn't. At least it's not supposed to.

[tropic horizon]

No, it doesn’t just do that. I’ve still been knocking things instantly as carno

[tropic horizon]

No it does deal that much damage

[halcyon elk]

Then the balancing broke and it got reverted.

[tropic horizon]

A headshot to a teno for example does around 412 damage from my memories

[halcyon elk]

When dilo and Herrera released they nerfed carno's charge.

[tropic horizon]

No they didn’t?

[dusky surge]

they absolutely did

[halcyon elk]

DAWG. IT IS IN THE PATCHNOTES

[tropic horizon]

The “2 second run up” thing they added barely works

[tropic horizon]

I KNOW, AND IN GAME I HAVENT BEEN SEEING THAT

You can activate the ram and even without the instant knockdown it still does a nuke’s worth of damage

[distant torrent]

might’ve been a hacker? damage hacks have been passing around like free candy

[tropic horizon]

It isn’t a hack, I’ve done it myself in an admin server with friends several times and we always got around 400 damage for a headshot charge

[distant torrent]

very odd

[halcyon elk]

Then we should definitely notify the devs on this oversight.

[tropic horizon]

And I’ve still been able to instantly knock them down for some reason, it ain’t consistent at all but I’ve been able to do that a TON.

[tropic horizon]

Please for the love of everything do that

[halcyon elk]

Next time I see punch I am notifying that there are some issues

[tropic horizon]

Carno is still completely broken because when will it not be?

[halcyon elk]

Dawg I am just tired of this crap.

[tropic horizon]

I am too, tired of having every other playable suffer at the hands of it

[halcyon elk]

I'm just tired of it for some odd reason NOT FIXING.

@tropic horizon though one thing I am at least excited for is diablo. Being able to eat carno charges will be nice.

[tropic horizon]

I just want it to be able to stop carno DEAD in its tracks if it tries ramming it head on

Not an insta kill but a lengthy stun and loads of damage

[halcyon elk]

Reverses the damage

[tropic horizon]

Imagine if it KNOCKED DOWN the carno if they tried that

[halcyon elk]

Also it's possible it's lmb might be 300 damage. Which is possibly changed. I hope it isn't considering how powerful that is.

[halcyon elk]

That'd be cool If they tried it with pachyrhino

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-ball-super-super-hero-orange-piccolo-gamma2-dragon-ball-super-dragon-ball-gif-27318313

Carno trying to ram and attack a pachyrhino:

[dusky surge]

im so glad you're using the higher quality version of that gif now

[tropic horizon]

Carno should just break its neck and die if it rams into the face of an adult pachyrhino lmao

[halcyon elk]

Pachyrhinosaurus only predators would likely be pairs of albertos, and apexes.

That or omniraptor packs

[grizzled anchor]

No it shouldn't win at least not easily but it should have a fighting chance since it cant flee the fight and currently it doesnt. And the problem isnt really the carno being too strong (even tho ram damage is a bit high imo) but cera being too weak. When facetanking the carno shouldn't win the fight in my opinion

[tropic horizon]

I think the problem IS carno being so strong atm, you can scroll upward to read what I said but it practically has insta ram still and if that doesn’t fail it, the carno can always do the old reliable face tank on cerato

[grizzled anchor]

Yes the instant charge is stupid and should be removed and the ram damage should be lowered but besides that I dont think its too strong. Cera is just so weak thats why it can easily get facetanked by a carno. When facetanking the cera should win the fight because a carno not using its speed and ram shouldn't be a threat.

[tropic horizon]

I mean the cera does sort of have to let the carno face tank it because in my fights whenever a carno runs out of stam or stops trying to ram me the cerato can just run circles around it charging up its bite over and over again which will kill it in about 5 bites

[distant torrent]

cera does have a chance (at least on paper according to the nerfs carno allegedly got lol)

• it has a charge bite that deals 300 damage with no cost to stam
• it’s quite agile
• it can ruin a carno’s stam, food, and water with vomit
• ram takes 5 seconds to cause a knockdown and no longer deals its absurd 350 damage, so it can no longer instantly pull a “I win” card on cera or basically anything

[grizzled anchor]

Well when the carno runs out of stam and hasn't used its last stam to flee its his own fault for getting punished for it. The carno should be able to facetank it if he used his rams and driveby bites enough to weaken the cera. But any dino using all its stam can get punished and should be punished for not paying attention.

[tropic horizon]

I still despise how one sided the matchup is for cera and always will. It never was an incredible fight but they turned it from a decently even matchup in Update 6.5 into an absolute joke of a fight in 7 and 7.5

[grizzled anchor]

Hitting that charge bite is pretty hard if your opponent has at least some skill though. The agility is needed since its pretty slow, without this agility the carno would have no problem at all fighting a cera. The vomit is fair enough but even with all these stats a cera won't win if both players are equally skilled. I used to love playing cera now its rather boring since you can barely fight anything.
It can't outrun anything so making it this weak was a pretty stupid idea of the devs imo

[tropic horizon]

Hitting the charge now however because of its insane damage and carnos insta accel is so stupidly easy since you can constantly drift and readjust until you’ve lined up the charge

[grizzled anchor]

And the instant chuffing when near a body is also such a disadvantage. A cera should be able to ambush players on a body imo. And especially if you're still a juvi this chuffing can be your death

[distant torrent]

nah the chuffing is fine. it just needs better body buffs so that chuffing is more of a warning than a “hey! I’m here! come attack me :3!”

[tropic horizon]

How it feels to play cerato

[grizzled anchor]

That is true Ive also noticed that it got insanely hard to dodge the charge. Even more so as raptor it felt like, but that might be due to the raptors hitbox being either very laggy or very bad, if I'd get one dollar for every stupid hit I got while being a raptor I'd be damn rich lol

[distant torrent]

how it feels to also hunt cerato

[tropic horizon]

Cerato feels like a puppy dog in this update and as a cera main that offends me :<

[grizzled anchor]

Im not against the chuffing I just wish it would be an option for the player to chuff which gives away his position but gets buffs or not chuff to stay hidden (especially as a juvi chuffing feels very punishing sometimes) rather than instantly chuffing when near a body and not being able to stop other than crouching.

[grizzled anchor]

Hunting a cerato feels like bullying a child in a wheelchair

[distant torrent]

the chuffing is only activated when other players are nearby which is how it should be imo (though I do want the chuffing to not activate for small, insignificant things like juvis and also not activate for pack members)

[grizzled anchor]

Well that doesn't work properly then. I so often wanted to chuff but couldn't so I faked the chuffing and very often when I was low I didnt want to chuff to not drag all the attention on me. Thats why I'd like for the player to choose if he wants to chuff or not. Just add a 3 call and if the cera is near a body it starts the chuffing instead of the 3 call. Wouldn't hurt anybody but would give the players more options on how to behave as a cera

[distant torrent]

might be another one of the all too common bugs. my cera chuffed only when others were very close

which isn’t surprising lol even nesting seems to be hit with a bug. you don’t get any mix colors anymore and only get copies of parents

[grizzled anchor]

The game is filled with bugs currently, but it doesn't feel like they're working on it rn :/ the fish AI is the best example. All the other AI got fixed pretty quick since it was game breaking but the fish bug just is ignored or at least not close to being a priority even though theres 2 playables who can now barely survive and for the deino its also very hard to survive anywhere outside of the hotspots :/
I thought they might work on all the bugs in this pace now but nope made it to be somewhat playable again and now its back to the good old silence lol

[distant torrent]

one thing gets fixed, another breaks. some things refuse to be easily fixed

[grizzled anchor]

Yes I get that but the problem is they're not giving out ANY information. The only information we get is when the updates are rolled out and thats not a wise development decision imo. If they would inform us about what they're working on the community would be much more chill

And they also dont test their "fixes" before rolling them out which is another weird development choice.

[distant torrent]

yea I do wish they were more willing to share. my biggest problem tbh is the silence regarding good content #isle-phase-three lol

[cobalt dagger]

@eager goblet

I've been playing almost just Dilo lately (does that make me a dilo player? Most of my hours came before dilo was ever added), but I don't disagree with you that it's broken, and it should be nerfed/I would like to see the timer for venom decreased.

Personally, I'd like it if, you had to bite the enemy to refresh your clones, rather than passively regaining them. I think being unable to smell should be shortned for like, 2 minutes for each bite and doesn't stack so 2 minutes will always be the maximum time you'd have to wait to smell again.

I like the idea of dilo being able to use it's venom to escape predators, I think the fog is good for that. As well as being able to bite the clones before they bite you to cancel the damage.
I think we should keep it that the clone can be bitten to cancel it's damage, but that forces you to, well, bite the clone, and gives the dilo another chance to bite you - or might interrupt a carno that was chasing the dilo as it disappears into the fog.

I think I'd like the fog to last longer - and only the fog. Lack of smell and clones should be shorter (clones only refeshed on bite, so 3 clones per bite, and lack of smell for 2 minutes), but if the fog was like, 5 minutes, to allow the dilo a way to disappear into it, I think that would be good. 5 minutes should be all the time you need to disappear/more than enough time, it might be annoying to have foggy vision for 5 minutes but I feel like that would be a suitable way to make a predatore think twice before bothering the dilo, without being too painfully oppressive since not much can starve in 5 minutes. (Though carno is leaning in that direction, I really wish he didn't.)

[white crest]

@uncut trellis I mean, personally I think it should gain more speed the longer it charges, and carno shouldnt solo teno. But, if you're skilled enough to fight with bites then thats good enouh to still fight a teno, and you can still charge quite well mid combat, it just isnt op now

[uncut trellis]

I think with skill carnos should be capable, but by no means easy

[white crest]

they still are, you just need a slightly different play style:]

[dusky surge]

carno is capable

[shadow vortex]

I just use charge now as a last hit, it still deals fair damage and headshots may end teno’s life after some bites. I only have problems when both of us are teleporting everywhere lol, but that’s mostly free admin server issue

[eager goblet]

This is a great idea

Or just having the clones only spawn in if the laughs are audible to the envenomated

[shadow vortex]

I mostly agree about the dilo suggestion. I’d nerf the venom and sniffing inability duration, make the prey able to cancel clone damage by biting them before they bite you. But I’d keep passive clone restoration, but probs make it longer (like 1:30 minute?). Also would enhance AI behaviour (so they would run more player-like), but that’s it

[eager goblet]

Thats making it more OP. You can already stop em by hitting them first

Personally I just tried Dilo and honestly its so OP hunting as it is almost boring

[coarse blaze]

Did they mess at all with deinos thirst drain recently?

[cosmic pelican]

Nope, been the same since forever

[shadow vortex]

Like how? I’m asking for nerfs but also would like the fights to be more entertaining

Generally my suggestion is almost no different from the previous one, except that I would keep passive restoration (but a long one, of course)

[coarse blaze]

Thank you! I switched to Legacy for a bit so I wasn't used to it again!

[cosmic pelican]

Np ^^

[scarlet onyx]

@uncut trellis Just got the chance to try carno adult tonight and I'm impressed how bad charge is lol. Entirely unusable on anything that's not afk, waste of stamina on sprint time you could use for bites instead. All the changes did was go from one end of egregious to a different end of egregious. I'm sure it can still do decent in a pack against tenos but wow

[grizzled anchor]

@uncut trellis When talking about the changes to its ram you mean the removal of instant charge? If so I strongly disagree. Consider a pack off raptors fighting a carno, now they are circling the carno but whoever is in front will just get charged + bitten and hes dead. Happened to me more than once. I do agree with the stam use of the ram tho its way too high, but Ive used the charge from time to time in a fight and almost never regretted it, I think tenos are way too strong anway so thats not a matchup I'd pull up for arguing (it stuns or knocks you down even on the tip of your tail). I think carno is one of the best if not the overall best carnivore right now so I dont really feel like it needs much change. Its not so heavily affected by the stam changes and still feels great to play. Theres definetly dinos that need muuuch more love than the carno rn at least imo.

[shadow vortex]

Yeah teno’s hitboxes are weird sometimes

[uncut trellis]

If yall hate instant charge? Then yall will HATE trample damage, which is basically instant charge but with no activation. But to answer your question charge should at least require less distance

[golden coral]

You can still "insta charge", just without knockdown and less damage from what I know. But if it still does more damage than a bite would, it could still be useful as an extra hit.

[grizzled anchor]

Trample damage won't be near to the damage the carno charge does. I also dont feel like the distance is too high its just too abusable if its shortened. And instant charge makes carno completely busted since it gives no window to dodge it. Again I feel like carno is fine overall I never had any problems when fighting even when using the charge. It's always been like this then they completely removed that and made it instant and now everyone wants it back to being instant I dont get it. I dont see any matchup which the carno can't fight (taking stego and deino out of that statement of course). If you look at basically every other predator of the roster except dilo they're incredibly weak (again take deino out of that statement) compared to the carno. If they buff the carno even more they difference in balance will be even higher and will make the smaller playable which is everyone on land even more unplayable. Maybe it could be tweaked to a perfect balance but I just feel like the carno is not even close to being problematic since its the top predator rn and has been for quite a while.
Look at cera for example, its not fast so it cant hunt or run away from a fight but can just be facetanked by a carno and even 1v1 by a dilo...
Raptors pounce became basically unusable and the raptor gets hit very often while hes already on the side of the prey pouncing if you can land the pounce in the first place its not guaranteed even if u clearly hit the side.
Troodon has turned into a scavenger even with a decent pack,
Herrera has a longer stun from pouncing on something than its target.

So many weird balance choices so I dont get the complaint about carno 😄 but we can agree to disagree in that regard

[uncut trellis]

In my experience the distance is too high. And also how do you not have a window to dodge if the carno still has to run at you anyway. To that I’d just say always assume a carno running at you is gonna charge and react as such, that’s how I treated it back in spiro days and it’s helped me a lot. Making charge take longer to be useful does not change this. Carnos charge is its signature ability which means opponents need to play around with it in mind, just like dilos venom.
And yes other carnivores are severely underpowered rn especially cerato. And to that I say they need buffs instead of nerfing the heck out of carno. The devs seem entirely unwilling to change any Dino’s weight rn, and cerato needs a weight buff since it’s too weak for how slow it is. A few teno kicks to the head and it’s in fatal danger, and carnos can literally facetank them. Omni players just need to play a little differently now, for me I try to lure alt attacks so there’s an opening to pounce, and troodon is planned to get changes that I hope help it a lot.

[grizzled anchor]

Im talking about the instant charge leaving no window to dodge. Its not always that hes far away and especially with the instant charge its best abused if youre keeping things close and personal. Because if hes 2m away and just charges you have no time to react, thats how I lost some of my raptors and fellow pack members. Instant charge is just not a good idea balance wise. Whats so bad about a little run up? It always worked so I dont get the need to want the instant charge back. When the carno had its instant charge you could see that the majority of the community agreed that its just tooo strong (and also not realistic that 1.8 tons are at full speed in a fracture of a second). And I'm not talking about nerfing carno I said its fine as it is now so it should neither get a nerf or a buff.

Well whatever playstyle I tried I get ridiculously hit either way. Raptor always had a hitbox problem but with the insane lag its not fun to play at all and it also got hit very hard by the stam changes.

Also carno has very high bite force and instant charge would cause most if not all carno players to fight using charge only because why would you try and go for a bite if the charge is so much easier to land and has less risk? The charge shouldn't be the main weapon of the carno but more of a thing to get situational advantage.
The instant charge would also allow carnos to just flee whatever ambushed them be it a dilo or raptor pack or whatever it just runs out of any potential danger. You're basically wishing for the carno to be the unrivaled dino in every aspect.

[uncut trellis]

Charge has had a variety of problems in the past and none imo were how fast you could land them. In update 6 the turn radius was too much and it was slower, which actually made it easier to land, for an example. Also with how fast paced combat is nowadays, charge is now only useful for ambushes which imo, carno is not an ambusher, that will be allos job. And speaking of allo, if carno stays this way then it’ll have nothing much going for it once bigger carnivores arrive. And I’ll say again, a carno is hardly changing speed when it’s coming at you. A carno coming in for a bite is not changing speed much compared to a charging carno, instant charge or not. You’re gonna have little time to react no matter the situation cause.. this is carno we’re talking about, speed is what it’s all about. Its charge has already had some positive changes such as a cooldown so it’s not as spammable. But now it’s hardly worth using

I still also hate that tenos tail slam doesn’t beat carnos charge anymore, I even think ceratos charge bite should counter it

[grizzled anchor]

No because it needs some time to reach top speed so you have a window to react, if its just on max speed instantly again you cant dodge anything. And if you like it or not carno is an ambush predator and not a brawler. And where is the disadvantage of using the charge in the fight? I dont see any and I've played carno quite alot recently and never felt like Im better off without the charge. Instant charge is a bad idea in many aspect but I dont see any advantage to it rather than carno being broken again. Looking at the votes I guess more people agree with the instant charge being a bad idea aswell.
Everyone I heard saying carno needs its instant charge were carno mains crying that they actually have to think in the fight instead of mindlessly charging over and over again...
I dont see any reason to change carno rn its the most viable hunter so why buff it even more?

[uncut trellis]

Charge is not carnos main problem rn imo, it is its acceleration. Carnos big weakness has always been its maneuverability. And its busted acceleration almost completely negates this cause now there’s little consequence in missing charges or bites. Carnos acceleration was literally perfect back in update 5, they made it way too slow in 6.5 seemingly for balance. So what was the natural solution for some reason? Make it instant. That’s what needed to be fixed not it’s charge

Tbh we just need to find a style for carno and leave it. And balance the rest of the roster around it, and stop making Carno an entirely new dino every dang update lol

[golden coral]

Insta charge is kind of needed if you want an ambush carno, so no, carno isn't really good at ambushing if you need to give away your advantage. And you can still insta charge, just without the knockdown/added damage? So you can still accel and hit things almost instantly?

[golden coral]

The instant accel is to make carno good at running things down, from what I know

So even if you do miss and have to turn, you're back in the chase almost immediately

[uncut trellis]

Accel doesn’t need to be instant to fulfill this

[golden coral]

The charge having a "run up" isn't inherently bad, what's bad is that you have to run up with the charge active, rather than just run. But even so, it'd have been better if they'd just limited knockdown threshold, rather than a run up. No sense in carno needing to run for x amount of time to knock over the small game its meant to kill

[uncut trellis]

How I see carno is a predator that tends to rely on groups because of its maneuverability, so if someone misses he has a cover

[golden coral]

Which is not good at all, considering how good that makes carno in groups and how bad it tends to be solo as a trade off

[golden coral]

Maybe not, but that's the reason why it was changed

[uncut trellis]

So what’s the solution?

[grizzled anchor]

Well I dont agree but if thats what you feel is needed so be it. I think insta charge would once again make carno completely busted. And with carno having basically no footstep sounds I dont see where the runup is the problem.
I wanna see a 1.8t animal getting to a top speed of over 50 km/h in the fracture of a second

[golden coral]

From what I can tell? Easiest thing, keep almost instant accel if you insist on making it an ambusher, limit knockdown/stun threshold to 900kg, and there you go. Now carno is still lethal to small game, but can no longer just run over larger things. And teno and cera are capable of fighting back if the carno has to go in for trades

[golden coral]

Just pointing out that a good ambusher means you can attack from point blank. If you want carno to ambush, it won't do well with a run up, because anyone paying attention won't be hit. Look at herrera, it kind of does struggle.

@uncut trellisAlso make charge the knockdown tool to catch small game, rather than the damage/killing tool as well

[grizzled anchor]

Herra is a very bad comparison imo. Its a difference if you just gotta watch for trees where you hear herras climbing or straight up see them or watch every single bush in your area. Also a carno won't really ambush on things so close that its not able to charge it with a runup... if so it was a bad ambush its as simple as that

[uncut trellis]

How I see ambushers are predators that are usually slower than their prey that need to get close to get a jump on it and subdue it, carno is the second fastest Dino in the game, the only thing faster is a galli on flock speed buffs

So by this logic I’d consider cerato an ambusher more than carno

[grizzled anchor]

besides that herra has other problems for example the stupidly long stun it has when jumping on something... and the fact that its not really able to kill anything with the pounce and therefor only ambush on babies.

[uncut trellis]

I would have rather had carno not change at all since update 5 and balance the roster around it

[grizzled anchor]

Not necessarily. Alot of ambushers are faster than its prey they just dont have the stamina to run this fast over long distances so they gotta ambush to get it in range. Sadly its not really well executed in The Isle but carno is an ambush predator.

[grizzled anchor]

carno is not the main character of the game lol chill

a changing meta would be good if its well thougt out. It just isnt in this game

[uncut trellis]

That is not what I meant, I meant to keep a style and balance the other Dino’s so they’re capable of fighting it

[halcyon elk]

I think carno's thing is the things it hunt aren't necessarily capable of fighting back to it unless you're going for the more risky hunting options. Rather you should avoid known areas where carnos are. And remain undetected from them if you must be in the region.

Honestly playing things like dryo or galli and sneaking past a carno are some of the most tense and engaging parts of the gsme.

And getting away knowing you just outsmarted a human being controlling the dinosaur is so satisfying.

[uncut trellis]

Tenos for most of its history have been more than capable of fighting back on the right hands, cerato does apply to your point though

[grizzled anchor]

This would create other balancing problems since theres not only carno vs ... matchup but also for example raptor vs cera. And one of those might then be overpowered since its only designed to fight a carno.
I think having a good balancing isnt that hard if you got a team testing even small changes. Maybe theres a insta charge meta out there somewhere even tho I doubt it since it kills any chance for smaller playable to compete with a carno even in packs

[uncut trellis]

Teno is usually the 1v1 king

[halcyon elk]

Cerato should, at least on corpses, be able to fight back with great degree.

[halcyon elk]

I mean its title will be replaced soonish by diablo.

[uncut trellis]

The problem is that it’s only useful on big corpses

[halcyon elk]

THE STAMINA FIXES. THEYRE HERE

[grizzled anchor]

teno is kinda broken imo. Its kit is so powerful with so many stuns and knockdowns and stuff

[halcyon elk]

HALLELUJAH

[uncut trellis]

Perhaps, dibble will be weaker overall im expecting

[golden coral]

Thats pursuit, not ambush. And carno isnt very much an ambush in the isle. If you need to run up, you're not a good ambusher, it's kind of that simple.

[grizzled anchor]

And its a stun/knockdown wherever it hits thats the bigges problem

[uncut trellis]

Thx that’s the word I was looking for, yes carno should be a pursuit predator not an ambusher

[halcyon elk]

Not necessarily, if we assume That the stat for the damage on left click is a horn attack, and has remained unchanged. It's possibly the base attack of diablo is 300.

[grizzled anchor]

Again I disagree because I felt the insta charge carno from the receiving end.

[halcyon elk]

Pursuit and ambush go hand and hand

Even cheetahs use ambush tactics to get close enough to prey.

[golden coral]

Which is why you need to keep the different approaches in mind. Everything can and should attemp to get the jump on something, that does not mean it is an ambush predator.

[halcyon elk]

Fair, ambush predators rely on ambush to get kills.
Carnotaurus is a pursuit predator
Allosaurus will be an ambush predator.

[golden coral]

Both pursuit, persistance, and ambush predators kind of want to get the jump on the prey. But the difference lies in how it goes after the said jump. An ambush predator like deino, basically does or dies by getting it. A carno can chase, but is limited in stamina. A cerato meanwhile is slower, but can track and follow for much longer.

[uncut trellis]

Sure but the ambush carno is utilizing is not the same kind people are trying to encourage from what I’ve seen

[golden coral]

If you want a playable to be really good at ambush, it basically means point blank power attack. A pursuit predator needs to be faster but less endurant, while a persistance predator needs to be able to keep following the target even if it's faster.

[uncut trellis]

Lion vs wolf

[grizzled anchor]

But with that in mind doesn't that defeat the point of instant charge?

[golden coral]

Well, with the point blank/instant accel, we got a good ambush carno

[golden coral]

I am simply trying to say, that instant accel/instant charge makes carno a good ambusher, nothing more or less. Now with run up, it's less of a good ambusher, because it requires a minimum distance, a reveal, and all that.

[uncut trellis]

Charge is charge in the end, why make it more complicated I guess is all I’m saying

Especially if it doesn’t make sense in practice

[grizzled anchor]

Why doesn't it make sense?

Its definetly realistic that a carno cant go to its top speed instantly and its also making sense to me that carno cant just charge anything in a 1m radius

[uncut trellis]

I’d be more forgiving for a run up charge if the speed increases over time, so it actually looks like it’s exerted enough force to knock down a teno, but it doesn’t

[golden coral]

@grizzled anchorPersonally, I would make the run up a matter of carno run, not specifically the charge, and I would make it vary based on target. So shorter "run up" needed for knockdown on smaller target, vs larger.

[grizzled anchor]

I agree with that it should increase in speed like it was on Spiro if I remember correctly but instant accel and increasing speed are two different things which have a completely different impact on the overall balance

[uncut trellis]

If we must have a run up charge, I think it should be like 2 or 3 carnos lengths to knock down a teno, but not like 100ft

[grizzled anchor]

would be a good idea but I think thats not easy to do. Im also not too sure if increasing the risk for smaller playables is a good idea given how bad they are anyway rn

[uncut trellis]

I also think carno shouldn’t be “that” much of a small game hunter, anything its size and smaller should be threatened by it, but the larger the prey the riskier for the carno

[golden coral]

Well, they do want it to be small game, and not be as good at handling larger things

[grizzled anchor]

Its already like that though? I dont see anything smaller than carno having no problems in a fight against it. Not even the broken dilos

[uncut trellis]

Exactly what I am thinking of

[uncut trellis]

It is yes, but the changes to its charge seem to imply that it shouldn’t be attacking bigger Dino’s that much at all

[halcyon elk]

Oh btw dilos venom is now 1 min

[uncut trellis]

If it were to imply anything

[uncut trellis]

Saw that and oooo hallelujah

[grizzled anchor]

Well it shouldn't charge bigger things in the first place its mainly using bite to fight anything bigger than itself so I dont see where its not exactly like you just said XD

It even gets staggered charging at heavier things than itself which makes sense

[uncut trellis]

Yes you’re using bites more but charges help, and tenos are a good bit smaller so it’s not like it doesn’t make sense

[grizzled anchor]

And using charge against a teno is viable so wheres your point rn? Am I just not getting it? XD

[uncut trellis]

When playing carno previously, say I’m in a small pack vs a large teno herd, we often had some pack members fighting close to distract the tenos while others came in for charges, I think that’s a decent and not flawed strategy

Charge now is worthless against tenos cause the consequences are not worth it

[grizzled anchor]

which consequences exactly? Thats more of a problem of teno being too strong than carno being too weak imo

[golden coral]

Teno being too strong? What now?

[uncut trellis]

Stam, even on full stam the requirement to have enough charge to knock down a teno is not worth it, you’ll be left with too little, and you don’t wanna be in a situation where the teno has enough stam and you can’t run away, carno is not known for good stam consumption, it’s other weakness

[uncut trellis]

And this plays to another point with how carnos charge beats tenos tail slam now, we had to distract them so they couldn’t tail slam us, there was an actual risk

So yea, imo carnos charge and how fast they land was not carnos main problem, it was other factors

[grizzled anchor]

Yes stam usage of the charge is too high I agree but thats more because of the overall stam change. It still is in the best spot rn

[uncut trellis]

Still want a reduction in the requirement to knock down a teno

[grizzled anchor]

It was the main problem for raptors for example. You gotta look at it from every other playables perspective not only one.

[uncut trellis]

Other mid tiers just need to have counters that outdo its charge like tenos tail slam, ceratos charge bite, and dibbles sparring

[uncut trellis]

Raptors are gonna get walloped by charges no matter what, that can’t be fixed unless there’s a damage reduction which I’m sure we don’t want

The solution is raptor players have to play around it, which they can cause of how agile they are

[grizzled anchor]

Yes but a carno who can charge from 1m away is impossible to fight as raptor unlike a carno who needs some space to charge u. Getting close to the carno and staying close was the viable tactic to fight a carno with insta charge theres no viable tactic

[uncut trellis]

And if a carno misses, it’s the opening the pack needs to attack cause of the charge cooldown

[golden coral]

Why would the carno charge at that close range, couldn't you just run and bite?

Or more, why would you need to charge

[uncut trellis]

The charge hit box does need to be small yes. And yes staying close is a legit method, see raptors have options. The issue is when you don’t see the carno, which plays into basic isle survival, pay attention to your surroundings

[golden coral]

Either of you know what current insta accel charge does in damage?

[grizzled anchor]

But getting close is no option if he can charge instantly thats what Im trying to say. Instant charge would just kill any chance to kill a carno even as a pack. The charge hitbox is another topic

[uncut trellis]

That’s why acceleration needs to be slower

[grizzled anchor]

Didn't you say it needs insta accel back? what?! XD

When it had insta charge it also had insta accel thats what made it so broken. If you're saying it can charge instantly but still needs time to reach its speed thats fine with me

[uncut trellis]

There’s a few solutions I have. Bring back instant charge and slow down accel. Or preferably, after this debate, slow down accel and reduce the distance needed to charge bigger Dino’s.

[grizzled anchor]

either is fine with me just insta accel is the worst idea for carno it makes it completely busted in every aspect

[uncut trellis]

I’ll admit I’m more open to run up charges after this debate, but I still think the distance required is too much

[uncut trellis]

On that it’s good knowing we both agree on something, carnos accel is busted rn

[grizzled anchor]

I dont know the stats on how much distance it needs to start the charge so I cant really argue against or for it but I personally haven't had much problems besides my charge just not starting at all sometimes xd

[grizzled anchor]

It was way worse though so Ive got hopes for the next balance changes

[gray star]

you need a 50m charge to knockdown as a carno.

[golden coral]

@gray starCan you still "insta charge" and do any form of damage, even without the knockdown?

[halcyon elk]

tested stam changes.

0%-25% Only sitting recovers stamina.
25%-50% Sitting and standing recovers stamina.
50%-75% Sitting, standing and z walk recovers stamina.
75%-100% Sitting, standing, z walk and trotting recovers stamina.

The regen times aren't different tho.
Thanks for glaze for the testing

[grizzled anchor]

trotting recovering stam is not something I have ever witnessed in gateway though?

[halcyon elk]

Also ptera got good stamina again.

[grizzled anchor]

Or you mean the upcoming update

[halcyon elk]

Yea the one that just released.

Check announcements.

[grizzled anchor]

Oh what I didnt even notice lol thanks for the info 😄

[halcyon elk]

Np

Also dilo venom was reduced to 1 minute time

[gray star]

yes. Just no insta knockdown. becides a bug.

[gray star]

Credit the repost.

[halcyon elk]

I forgot who posted it.

It was a repost of a repost

[distant torrent]

so if you have 25% stam or less, the only way to regain it is via sitting? you can’t stand and regen some?

[halcyon elk]

Believe so. Makes sense.

[distant torrent]

[halcyon elk]

It ain't all too bad. It's an incentive to keep your stamina up.

[golden coral]

Got any clue about the damage it does like that?

[gray star]

me

[halcyon elk]

Oh sorry, thanks for the post btw

[distant torrent]

not a fan of it honestly

[gray star]

Np I am just messing. Infomation is free to pass around, but it is nice to see my name on things I test lol.

[gray star]

a decent amount. Can hit 460 damage on a headshot to a teno

[golden coral]

Alright, thank you!

[golden coral]

If you happen to figure out base damage, by all means let me know. Curious if it'd be better to do a charge + bite, or two bites on a target.

[gray star]

I can work on that

[golden coral]

If you don't mind, sure! I'm curious, if like you got a teno or a dilo right there, far too close for a full run up, but far enough for an instant accel/charge to hit. Would you do more damage by charge + then bite, or by just running up normally and biting twice. And I guess what would be faster to throw out, charge + bite or two bites.

[eager goblet]

#balance-feedback message
@brave flicker Pouncing got nerfed to the ground because the players aren't smart enough to deal with them

I mean, pouncers are easy to block. You can literally stand on a bush and they'll collide with the bush instead of you

Standing with your side against a cliff works too

Water and mud also works

[halcyon elk]

But using the environment to deal with something is kinda stupid, you'd be dead if you had none of any of those nearby.

[eager goblet]

Not really

Troodons weren’t so powerful

A solo troodon is pretty much useless

@balmy briar #balance-feedback message

The problem is when a volcano goes off the entire island tends to kinda explodes with it. Or at least it kills everything on and around it

[balmy briar]

well, it doesnt have to be a nuke

[golden coral]

It's a little odd to argue that pounced got nerfed because it couldn't be dealt with, it's more reasonable that pounce got nerfed because it was simply too powerful for the ease of use it has had throughout most of the game. In general, the only times pouncers struggled has been when the pounce itself bugs out, rather than because of terrain use. And considering how people love to complain when terrain is used, it's even more odd to both argue for it and then cry about it. Like, if you're meant to require terrain to handle a pack, instead of fighting them in the open, then there shouldn't be any complaining when terrain is used and it leads to a failed attack, as it should. Can't have it both ways, if people want terrain to be less powerful, then more efficient defense without it is required, and if they want to just win in the open, then terrain should end the encounter instead of the target uses it.

Being that pounce is finally somewhat dependent on skill and timing and all that, it would make more sense to look over terrain and make it less of a hard counter, and more of a extra use and help when being outnumbered, rather than a clear end of the engagement. And considering that mud is apparently being "fixed", you could look over things like bushes and trees as well, adjust for how knockoff works there to make them less of a direct counter perhaps.

[balmy briar]

not like a boom, but just "active"

making the area unbearable to be in for long times

maybe a simple timer ( like 10 minutes)

[golden coral]

For what purpose? Not that it isn't a cool idea, but what's the goal?

[balmy briar]

redivide population

[dusky surge]

even an active volcano would be a nightmare

[balmy briar]

going away from the ne plains is like , a deathsentence

[dusky surge]

given how high the volcano is, the lava would literally drain down and destroy... like 25% of the island

[golden coral]

Wouldn't that be better done with fixing AI and maybe not just have herbi migration zones as the only spots to live in?

[eager goblet]

This is wisdom

[balmy briar]

depends where the lava comes from, doesnt have to be in all 360 degrees, could have a lava flow come down towards the NE

that said, i am not an expert on vulcanos 🤔

[eager goblet]

And then decimate everything in that direction

[golden coral]

While I can agree with the sentiment of wanting to remove the hotspot, wouldn't this just risk creating another one?

It doesn't really fix the basic issue?

[dusky surge]

there'd be literally no NE plains to speak of in that regard

[balmy briar]

i mean it would be a funny solution, fixing the hotspot with a "hot" spot 🤭

[dusky surge]

after the first eruption, the entire place would lack food, water or... anything

[eager goblet]

There will always be hotspots

[dusky surge]

it'd be hell

[balmy briar]

and , people would be motivated to move inland

[dusky surge]

not even

no one would visit northeast ever again

[balmy briar]

they would

[dusky surge]

there's zero food or water

[golden coral]

Well yes, if the game allows for it. Though I am not personally against hotspots, I just want more of them. Let me be able to go and live where I want, more or less. But I also favour territories over migration so there is that. I just want to be able to find a nice spot I like, and live there as stego. And if the food is scarce enough, then that just means I have to defend that spot.

[balmy briar]

just do it right... add some small tremors like 5 min before it goes off , then every hour u let it decimate the area

[halcyon elk]

Any food and water would be contaminated.

[balmy briar]

then there will be a down time of 25 min

if you let the lava run for 30

[halcyon elk]

Have you seen areas taken after volcanic eruption?

[dusky surge]

that's not how volcanos work

[golden coral]

But I'm more so just saying that the volcano idea seems like a band-aid on the issue, rather than looking at the basic reason of the hotspot being a thing

[balmy briar]

^

[dusky surge]

lava doesn't just flow away, it solidifies into hard rock and ash. All the food, water and pretty much everything would be inedible for the rest of time if it were to erupt

[balmy briar]

can you guys show me some pics or someone who knows explain

[halcyon elk]

The volcano we have in evrima is a composite volcano

[balmy briar]

well you CHANGE the biome of NE plains into a vulcano wasteland

so that u have a active and non active state, and its a game so surely mechanic wise u can change things to make it doable

[halcyon elk]

Composite volcanos are known for being incredibly destructive. Think Pompeii.

[dusky surge]

why would anyone visit a volcano wasteland. That's literally not a place any creature wanting to survive would go

you get no food, no water, consistent risk of dying to lava

[balmy briar]

im sure id love walking trough a place like that

just the vibe changing, it gets old ya know, jungle 80% , highlands is amazing for example

[dusky surge]

until food or water inevitably gets low and you have nothing to fill up with

[balmy briar]

u leave the area in search of it

ur bassicly saying, my idea would work

[junior harness]

It sounds like a fun concept if your food and water didn't drain so quickly for those who did want to go explore the wasteland

[dusky surge]

so no one goes IN because it's just dead space

[golden coral]

@eager gobletOh btw, you mentioned "immune to alt attacks" in your feedback, do you mean while pouncing and being in the air? Because far as I know, you can't get hit by alts (or any other attack) while you're on the target, as neither troodon nor omni?

[halcyon elk]

If I were to make a compromise. @balmy briar @dusky surge perhaps an area that is fueled by the volcano from a separate chamber that produces slow moving lava, that, while it is perilous the food there is incredibly nutritious and sustaining.

[dusky surge]

no, i'm saying that your idea would make the NE plains like most of Gateway, unused

[balmy briar]

the objective of the idea is to get people to not stay in NE plains. and making the area different, because rn that area is meta and the only area people wanna go to pvp.

[dusky surge]

no one will want to stay because NE is literally dead space

[balmy briar]

good, objective accomplished

[halcyon elk]

And unlike the migration zones, they're in the area constantly. Though really the food is only a few spare plants that feed some hardy generalists. Think gallimimus.

[balmy briar]

now we can use the rest of the 80% of map

[dusky surge]

no?

people will just use 10% instead of 20

[halcyon elk]

Or maybe...and think about this. Have more than the NE hotspot.

[balmy briar]

how would u achieve that

how would you, motivate people to stop going into that corner

[halcyon elk]

There's several other locations on gateway in the western portion that could function as migration zones

[golden coral]

Well, why do people only go to NE?

[halcyon elk]

By...ya know starving them. Go this way or starve to death from lack of plant life.

[balmy briar]

im open to your thoughts aswell, idc about being right or wrong, i just wanna combine braincells, im bringing my whole 1 cell.

[dusky surge]

You've basically made 3 types of areas

Dead space (80% of the map)
VERY dead space (North East plains after being demolished by a volcano and becoming entirely impossible to survive in)
Hotspots (10% of the map)

[balmy briar]

Carnivores?

[dusky surge]

No plants means no herbivores. No herbivores means no meat. No meat means no carnivores

[balmy briar]

True, but that wasnt the case on release, we had east plains, south plains, u could go swamp, everywhere was something

[junior harness]

I don't think there's going to truly be a system that will ever fully get rid of hotspots, honestly

[balmy briar]

carnivores will eat eachother

you wont see them, thats the diff

[halcyon elk]

That issue is resolved by having so you gain half the diet or food from carnivores than you do herbivores. With the exception of ceratosaurus and deinosuchus due to their unique nature.

[balmy briar]

yeh true im afraid, the only way to do this is to "use the stick" in a clever way to motivate people to move around

[halcyon elk]

Or maybe have carnivores decay faster. Perhaps a combination of both?

[balmy briar]

thats where my whole vulcano idea came from, but these guys are also correct, going onward it would just form a hotspot elsewhere

[balmy briar]

nah doesnt work, mayority of playerbase is carni, so we would rarely have a meal worth our time, and it also doesnt make sense will breed frustration

[balmy briar]

Keep in mind, we also have to eat other carni's to keep a balance in check

we cant just give every carno juvi a free pass to becoming big and dangerous

[halcyon elk]

If I were to pull from real life. Carnivores are shown to not only taste worse than herbivores. But also harbor more diseases and are less nutritious. This could be emulated in them decaying faster and giving less nutrients. Bar as I said deinosuchus and ceratosaurus.

[balmy briar]

if your carnivore specie is a threat to mine, i will hunt that specie's sub adults

[balmy briar]

Well then you could do that with nutrients

[halcyon elk]

And that's good. You can still theoretically eat them. It's just they won't be a secure food source.

[balmy briar]

but decaying no, if i work hard for a kill ( omni vs carno to make a wild one appear) , and it poofs fast af

imma be salty, i worked for it.

[halcyon elk]

I didn't mean like, after 1 min it's rotten. It's more, like 5-6 minutes or more.

[balmy briar]

and its already bad enough with the high risk no reward omni gameplay in this current state omni is still in.

[balmy briar]

your idea is rlly good, but the decay overkills it, if herbis give good nutrients then sooner or later u gonna want a herbi

[halcyon elk]

True, but no herbi around. So follow the herbis

[balmy briar]

cuz i dont even kill herra's anymore due to the sheer lack of nutrient value. Just makes it feel like i wasted someone for nothing

u can def play that nutrient game like that, and balance things trough it by making players decide for themself like "hey this aint worth it" without having to push them forcefully ( like the stam changes)

[halcyon elk]

This will eventually make the singular braincell of the average isle player spark and realize "wait a minute. It's better to hunt the herbivores than it is to hunt the carnivores"

[balmy briar]

yes

but problem 2. And this is the hurdle thats the big big problem

in between where you are, and where the herbis are, you will starve.

No time to hunt when you arrive, you need to scavenge right away.

and this problem annoys me so much

[halcyon elk]

There are possible solutions, ai dinosaurs being one of them.

[balmy briar]

like its the soul reason, im not playing the isle untill hunger/water is reduced in their drain

water i'd accept, its my choice to avoid croc rivers so yes thats on me, but food...

il tell u a secret

ai doesnt actually "work". It works top right of the map, and the more u go down and left, the less ul find AI

and i think its a "spawn around players" issue, mayority being in hotspot

its like a bigbomb of many issues together, and it made me say hold up, im taking a break.

i miss spiro ai , at least their turtles would spawn, even tho i also had days where i couldnt find it and died, it was like "perfect".

[halcyon elk]

I would say that while modern day ai such as deer and goat should be player based spawning. Dinosaurs should spawn based on the current migration zone of the species, or in the previous migration zone, and be programmed to move to the migration zone. Allowing you, the Carnivore, to move with your prey to the next migration zone.

Example being tenonto herds spawning at the start of the trail that goes to the swamp zone to highlands.

And vice versa.

[balmy briar]

honestly they should just rework spawns so that certain species spawn in certain corners, no more choices. Then if you wanna go to NE plains, youl have to travel, everyone traveling will at least "simulate" activity in other parts of the map as they move towards ne plains to die and repeat their cycle

and litterally what i just said would probably be the best solution

[halcyon elk]

That's unironically one of the best things legacy had under its belt other than horror. At least for a while. New dilo stole that title. the 1 calls...they give me the heebies

[balmy briar]

migration zones mixing in, making you doubt where player traffic is

i honestly think i struck gold with that idea, but i just woke up and am stupid in general so idk

[halcyon elk]

Maybe. But I do have some other ideas in the sense of balance. One thing being the upcoming diabloceratops

Diablo is going to be incredibly dangerous to fight solo. The most dangerous out of the roster bar the cow with the literal spear for a tail and the 8 ton crocodile.

Btw at minimum diabloceratops deals 350 damage on its charged alt on body hits. @balmy briar

4 headshots can kill a carno

And 6 shots on charged alts to the body

[balmy briar]

idk about that, im actually excited to try and solo it

i think i spotted a weakness from what ive seen so far, so i already got a theorycraft ready for the fight

[halcyon elk]

How that?

[balmy briar]

classified omni information

[halcyon elk]

Omni pack hunting when a second diablo comes in.

[balmy briar]

i first have to try it, to make sure im not overlooking things

[dusky surge]

this is literally the most raptor main statement ever uttered dear god

[balmy briar]

i mean i am a raptor main, so the shoe fits the foot

[dusky surge]

mate it's not a big deal to reveal how you think dino x will beat unreleased dino y lol

[balmy briar]

it is if dev reads it and is like, oh no u wont, let me alter this rq...

[dusky surge]

they literally will not care enough

[balmy briar]

ngl thats a big take,

yeh i know, like i said its a big take

just like to make sure i get a chance to experiment

[halcyon elk]

Diabloceratops vs omniraptor is more trying to bait it into attacking you specifically and swapping who goes in and deals damage in a war of attrition.

[balmy briar]

yeah but i run solo

[halcyon elk]

Oh good luck with that. Diablos are able to run the ones with carnos.

[balmy briar]

and dont gimme the "your a pack animal" thing, im so tired of hearing that argument asif i can spawn in friends to always play with. and i dont group with anyone who 1 call spams, thats a liability to my stealthyness

[balmy briar]

im also able to run 1's with carnos tho

only thing that killed me other then my own dumb mistakes is litterally dilo clones killing me after i killed them ( after minutes of time)

[dusky surge]

and people are still saying omni is too weak lol

[balmy briar]

the pounce is digusting, doesnt feel nice, and makes u wanna drink bleach

but the biteforce dodge game, yeah that still works just fine

[dusky surge]

pounce was fine when i tried it

[halcyon elk]

It is pack animal. Doesn't mean that it can't hunt on it's own. But its significantly harder.

[balmy briar]

far too often we get "back/front" checked on a good flank attack. Its like unless the guy is animation locked the desync will usually make u suicide without consent.

[halcyon elk]

What diablo has in its arsenal makes it a 1v1 king.

[balmy briar]

like if i pounce off a cliff trying to land a trick shot, and i splat like a fly on a windshield when i miss, thats a good laugh , but seeing yourself connect to a flank with a claw attack and then to be utterly destroyed because you are now in its "aura" , thats.. salt

[halcyon elk]

Fair, also one thing I gotta say, diablo could theoretically one shot Omni with a charged alt headshot.

[balmy briar]

there is a diff between dying to your own fault and the game not doing what ur expecting off it

[balmy briar]

so can cera

charged bite to the head = babai

a 9 sec charge, oof

[halcyon elk]

Except diablo doesn't have that. It got a long-ish windup.

But it still is a very powerful tool in the already expansive arsenal diablo has.

[balmy briar]

yes but i bet it will share traits with carno , and wont be hard to step out of the way off for a raptor

[halcyon elk]

You're right actually. Last I heard diablo has about 5 of those charges.

[balmy briar]

i usually am 🤭 (joke)

[halcyon elk]

They can be used for the empowered alts. Or for diablo's guard

Also yea that guard will be very powerful in a 1v1 against something like carno. I can't wait to feel how cathartic it will be to parry an oncoming carno charge and just WAIL on the carno

[balmy briar]

yeah im curious to go toe to toe with a diablo alot, but first they need to get their game together 😭 food/water drain needs to be heavily reduced before i touch it again. I feel forced to move and move and move, and the isle was always a "you need to keep your meters up, but beyond that your free to do your things , nest , a long stakeout ambush, simply scout for prey" , i cannot do these things, the game wants me to get a result instantly, else i starve.

[halcyon elk]

I agree in terms of reducing it. But not to an insane degree.

[balmy briar]

and as long this is the case, its a stressfull game to play, and if i want to be stressed into a lot of things to constantly do, il play any other pvp game that keeps me constantly engaged, the isle is more of a chill game that starts off as a horror untill you grow used to all the dangers.

ofc thats my pov on it after 5k hours, i remember when i started playing and i knew nothing and everything was scary

[halcyon elk]

Ngl if you like the horror aspect, I suggest playing things like gallimimus, dryosaurus, or other animals that don't fight as much as other herbivores. And are focused on fleeing. You would not believe how scary it is sitting in a bush cuz there's 5 dilos in the area and THEYRE RIGHT THERE JESUS CHRIST.

[balmy briar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3DB16Mpr8g&t=1s thats the thing, i welcome these things

like, idk i love to be out there, do stuff, plan a good hunt, track something and take my time, but my patience isnt rewarded. Its punished with starvation.

You wanna see a rex come out of a bush? like dondi said on his stream? gl , we cannot sit still for these types of things

we have to move move move

[eager goblet]

I mean while flying towards a target. It was a thing for like barely a week

And it was troodons best time. No more fly catchers

[golden coral]

Huh, don't recall that at all, but it sounds like it was a bug to be honest if it only lasted that long.

[eager goblet]

No it was in the patch notes.
‘Added-‘

I might be wrong. But I think it was intentional just for an experiment

[golden coral]

Do you have any idea of how the phrasing might have been? I could go look. Which update, if you know that?

[eager goblet]

No idea. But it was recent

‘Immune to alt attacks’

[golden coral]

"Made pounce and headbutt to ignore alt attacks" this you're thinking of?

I thought that related to alts preventing pounce and apparently headbutt too, rather than making things immune to damage when performing those two actions

Could be that the first version did make you immune and that wasn't intended if it got adjusted

[halcyon elk]

@balmy briar boy howdy do I got news for you.

[junior harness]

They make the hunger/thirst decay even faster jkjk

[balmy briar]

do NOT give them ideas 🤣

[balmy briar]

yayy

why growth time tho, oh well as long as i dont die if i try to nest

ahhh probably in relation to nesting 🤔

that moment when u answer ur own question

[golden coral]

Maybe they intend to up growth times a bit for everything

[balmy briar]

prolly babies else i dont see why

since nesting is quite irrelevant vs spawning in as 6 juvis as a group

even if 1 is adult the go to method is usually well "Spawn there, and ... survive! we will be there in a while"

so if babies grow faster, making nesting more reliable, means it might become viable to nest??

[golden coral]

Maybe if they grow faster overall, like a growth boost for being nested?

Because you inherently add time due to being a hatchling, as well as being completely helpless, so you need to counter that somehow to make it worth being nested over spawning

[balmy briar]

that be hella smart, like automaticly give them a buff and full food on spawning as baby

reminds me, there is a egg incubation time bonus on a specific diet, wouldbe a great timing to bring that over to the 50% buff

cuz its useless where its sitting currently

[golden coral]

Trade the egg timer for a "faster growth" for the nested critter maybe?. So if omni takes ... 90 min to grow from spawn in, it'd take 75, or even 60 min from hatchling, or something? Going by having equal diets of course

[scarlet onyx]

With their track record lately all that means is gaslighting player experience with more changes that achieve the same result instead of finding compromise.

[halcyon elk]

[golden coral]

@grizzled anchor I feel like you're focused entirely on special mechanic, rather than taking the playable into account. For example, while an omni uses lots of stam, so does a stego. But in the encounter, omni can back off easier than stego can. So does that mean stego should have really high stam regen?

[grizzled anchor]

As I mentioned at the end this does not apply to herbivores. Of course they shouldnt do this and then ignore the herbivores lol but herbivores would have to be changed aswell. Im just not really playing the current herbivores so I can't really speak for them

[golden coral]

How would you do it for herbis though? You do have a similar situation, pachy for example?

If you want to be focused on the mechanics, which does seem odd to me. Wouldn't it be better, for both carni and herbi, to focus on the playable, and how it's meant to interact and so on

I'd imagine they will adjust stam regen and so on per species anyway, hopefully based on the need of the species

[grizzled anchor]

I dont know I dont really play herbis enough to have an idea to that.
Of course it would be better to adjust it per species but this would take alot longer and would make balancing harder with every added playable. The focusing stam on mechanics part was just an idea that came to mind and at least in my opinion it would be waay better than the current universal stam system.
If you're looking at things like troodon or omni they are so incredibly bad rn. Even a pack can barely take down anything because the stam change that came with gateway just screwed them up completely. Before even a solo raptor could kill basically everyone with enough skill, now not even a pack is a real threat. Lag does play into that aswell though since omnis really feel the lag.

If they really did adjust the regen per species where is the sense in making a new universal system then? I'd really appreciate if they do adjust it per species but its just not looking like they will do anytime soon.

[golden coral]

So basically, omni is as it always have been, fluctuating from extremely op to more or less useless (going by that last sentence). And well, if they are going to adjust it for every species, wouldn't that be easier for balancing? Since omni and troodon, while both being pouncers, shouldn't be exactly the same? Same for herrera and hypsi both climbing, and so on.

I think the only reason fo universal values right now is to make sure things work at their base, and they did say they plan on changing things like growth times, hunger/thirst decay, and stamina. So I don't see why they wouldn't make it species specific for the stamina regen or what they intend to change.

And if they're going to adjust it, it makes more sense for balancing to do so based on species, rather than sharing a mechanic, at least to me

Especially since not every critter has a mechanic to go by in the first place

[grizzled anchor]

I dont really agree, it mightve been like this on gateway but on Spiro there were times where I felt like it was at a good spot while not being op. The point of it not being the same for troodon and omni for example is valid of course there would still be variation but more like pools and regen times differ but not the fact that they regen trotting at all times for example.

[golden coral]

I just went by " Before even a solo raptor could kill basically everyone with enough skill, now not even a pack is a real threat." this sentence. If a solo raptor could kill basically everyone, that would make it extremely op. Just like if a pack isn't a threat at all, that'd make it quite bad.

[grizzled anchor]

I wouldn't say they would have all pouncers have the same stats in stam regen and pools but they would be close to each other in values and specifically in how and when they regen stam.
The changing it per species would of course be the better option.

[golden coral]

Though maybe there has been some decent moments, but those seem rare, omni and pounce generally ends up either too good or too bad most of the time, from my experience at least xD

[golden coral]

Changing by species allows you to finetune how the respective pouncer is meant to use its pounce, with or without numbers, and so on. Would make more sense, you could let troodon regen while trotting, but still have omni have to go rest in a bush for example.

Despite both of them using pounce as a main mechanic

[grizzled anchor]

The thing is that the raptor would need to be very very skilled to do so. The average raptor couldnt solo anything XD
I was a raptor main and enjoyed the duo raptor the most, it was a challenge since both raptors would need to play smart and be careful but not impossible. Now 2 raptors are a thing to complain about since who only wants 2 chicken nuggets in their menu

[golden coral]

The fact that it was possible is what would make that imbalanced and the raptor op, unless you literally went up against an afk player. And balance should always be done based on the best players anyway, for all playables. But if you prefer duos, maybe raptor isn't ideal playable, since it comes in higher numbers. Cera or dilo might be more of the "we do well in pairs, don't need twice as many of us" xD

[grizzled anchor]

Most of the times you're right, but not always at least it felt fine for a good amount of time on spiro for me. The problem with balancing pounce is the more pack members there are the stronger it is.

[golden coral]

But that's less relevant, I do think adjusting things for species makes more sense than going by mechanic, no matter the playable or mechanic in question

[golden coral]

It's possible, I've just never really felt that pounce has been in a good spot, it's been too good, or too bad, entirely bugged out, or worked better than it should, and so on. It's a problem child, at least in my experience xD But maybe we'll get there one day! And well yes, pounce does work well in groups, thats kind of the point I think?

[grizzled anchor]

A raptor being able to solo a carno for example makes it op? Its just a matter of whos more skilled and a skilled carno wont lose 1v1 to a raptor. So I dont see your point being valid there lol. And you might be right but I really really dont like the dilos playstyle and cera is just a joke rn and its not a hunter in the first place xd

[grizzled anchor]

It does make more sense you are right, it just doesnt feel like the devs are intended to do so. Maybe its on their ToDo List but it sure doesn't feel like they even started 😄

[obtuse ocean]

Its not always about skill, carno vs omni should be heavy favor to carno. Omni should be pack hunters

[golden coral]

It depends on the amount of skill needed, because skill should only go so far. So it's perhaps not that "soloing carno makes omni op" but rather "soloing carno this easily makes omni op". Does that make sense to you?

[grizzled anchor]

Well Im always taking bugs out of that statements since they're not how the pounce is intended. If you take bugs into consideration then pounce was horrible most of the time XD

[grizzled anchor]

favor doesnt mean ez win tho

[golden coral]

True, bugs don't count for balance, we both agree there :)

But it does mean that the bugs have made it hard to balance pounce

[grizzled anchor]

I never said omni could easily solo a carno thats why I said a VERY skileld player 😄

[golden coral]

So it's not always been easy to tell if the pounce was balanced because well, bugs make it all go out the window xD

[obtuse ocean]

yea, sometimes it does. If not its just " we are more so we win" if 1v1 is even, then 2v1 is normally slaughter. And boring

[grizzled anchor]

Well I haven't seen many attempts to address the bugs not only in pounce but also other things or at least they never claimed to have done so

[golden coral]

I think it relates more to the level of the carno, or both of them. Like, if both are skilled, solo omni should stand no chance, basically.

So it's not just one of them being skilled, but rather "if both are skilled, how big should the difference be", in this case, how many omnis should it take to equal a carno basically

[golden coral]

It is a problem child xD

[grizzled anchor]

1v1 being even doesnt mean carno is in favor though so you contradict yourself lol.
1v1 was not impossible is what Im saying if the raptor is more skilled than the carno by a good degree, now it is impossible XD

[golden coral]

Probably still is possible if the carno is sufficiently bad xD You underestimate how bad Isle players can be

Anyway, main subject, I think that adjusting per species is the way to go, because you might not want omni and troodon to behave the same way in a hunt even if they share the main mechanic. Any more than you'd want stego and teno to behave the same way, despite not having a mechanic at all.

[obtuse ocean]

Not sure what you mean ,but im saying if you wanne solo a carno even if your better you still not favor to win.

[grizzled anchor]

Yes of course its the level of both parties thats always the case 😄
I'd say if a pack of 8 raptors (group limit) attacks a solo carno the carno should have a very hard time. I'd say if looking at equally skilled players 3-4 raptors vs 1 carno should be even

[golden coral]

And thus, while I get the basic concept of your idea, I think you're looking at it in a simplified and not very good way for actual balance, if that makes sense

It is a bandaid solution, rather than a proper balance based on the critters behaviour and place in the ecosystem

[grizzled anchor]

Of course you're not youre dead in a few bites and your opponent is not I never said otherwise? You imply that I said 1v1 should be an equal fight while I said a very skilled raptor has the possibility to take down a not so skilled carno.

[golden coral]

If it's more than 4 omnis, the carno should die if it can't somehow give them all the slip, no matter how skilled the carno is xD

And that's basically a carno seeing them and going "no thanks" and not even engaging

[grizzled anchor]

True it is a bandaid but I'd much prefer this over the current universal system which basically kills small playables from doing pvp

[obtuse ocean]

Ok, il agree on that. If its big skill gap.

[golden coral]

I get it, I really do, but I think it's better to deal with the current situation for a good balance method in the future, rather than do this and then potentially not actually fix it properly if it works "well enough". But I could be wrong there of course.

After all, we know and have to accept that balance is far from done, and at points the game is more or less unplayable, much as we wish it was different

[grizzled anchor]

The thing is that the current situation is not like it will be different in 3 months because its been this way for months now. And now that they changed the stam system once again it again is not fitting the small playables and I personally lose more and more interest in playing this game since my favourites are straight up garbage so Im either forced to play dinos I dont enjoy or play my favourites and quit the game after the first fight because I didnt stand a chance in the first place xd

[obtuse ocean]

Only issue with omni, does it have any threats? unless its attacking something ? I have not played dilo yet

[grizzled anchor]

What do you mean by having threats? 🤔

[grizzled anchor]

I also feel like the time and effort put in the new stam system is wasted if they really plan to rework the stam per species in the near future xd

[obtuse ocean]

The only thing i had to worry about walking around as omni , was carno. But carno was way to easy to outmanouver, so i didnt even care about them

But i have not played for awhile

[mossy holly]

We need a way to passively control deino overpopulation

Yesterday i watched 10 FG deinos come out of a river to steal food from ceras

I'm not kidding

[golden coral]

True, it might last for a while, but that is still how development works. We know they are looking at stam and adjusting, and we got this new variant just now. So I do think it's fine to let it take the time and let them work on it. There are after all, other games than the Isle to play if your current playable doesn't work (herrera and stego for me). I do get how you feel, stego main and the whole "can't attack at all if pounced by anything", lots of fun. But even so, it's fine to take a break if you feel that the game currently isn't fun at all. I think the new change to stam affects everyone, pachy, teno, stego, omni, troodon, carno and so on. Most playables that require stam to be somewhat useful are all dead in the water after a certain point.

[grizzled anchor]

Oh yes omni has alot of threats. Biggest threat being lag but regarding dinosaurs basically every land dinosaur is a threat in one way or another. Carno being its main rival of course but dilos also are faster than omnis and are an even bigger threat now. Pachys will basically kill you with one leg fracture (not literally but you are basically dead as soon as you leg is fractured). Ceras while not being able to hunt you down are capable of oneshotting omnis with a charge but and their alt bite being very strong for pouncing omnis.
The bigger problem with omni is that it can't hunt anything. So dinos that aren't a threat in regards of hunting u down are still not an option as potential food and this completely kills the fun omni was for me

[golden coral]

Dilos are faster than omnis

[golden coral]

Eh, this new version at least offers some potential in that you can trot and regen stam, as people asked for. Of course, they also decided that if you are too low on stam, you might as well sit down and give up. xD

[golden coral]

Honestly, with new stam, if you're good at baiting, you might be able to run a pachy out of stam and then just watch it lie down and die :p

[mossy holly]

the only issue with omni is stam atm

[grizzled anchor]

While I'd also say just taking a break would be the best option and come back later that is not the case for The Isle due to the devs setting VERY weird priorities and to some degree ignoring BIG problems for ages. The time they took to develope has always been unusually long thats not the problem but the changes they do make normally dont adress the problems that really are there

[old mantle]

@analog mirage why man! stego is so OP! you clearly have never played it before! it's a fat land cow and they always mixpack!

[analog mirage]

Womp womp

[frail bobcat]

Womp womp

[grizzled anchor]

Kind of true but it has more problems. Like the fact that you can sometimes get hit while pounced even if its just in the first second this can cause death (tested that with a friend a dozen times its ridiculous), the hitbox lagging 2m behind so u get hit incredibly often while you physically dodged it. Most lag problems apply to omnis times 2.
But even if you say only problem is stam if you take lag and bugs out this it still kills omni off since hes completely relying on stamina to fight and hunt.

Omni is an AI hunter and scavenger now 🤣

[golden coral]

They probably have their own way of doing things, and wouldnt that be the best option then, since we don't know how their priorities are and what they will do? So take a break and come back later and see if things have change? But what they consider a problem, and we might consider a problem, clearly differs. And well, their game, their rules. They might not care about issues for multiple reasons, most of which we probably have no idea about.

[golden coral]

The one critter with the highest risk of collateral clearly makes for the best critter to mix with! xD

[grizzled anchor]

Well they sure do things their way but I don't see a reason why they ignore their community and are completely silent about the whole development process. From a developer standpoint I dont see any disadvantage in taking in ideas from hundreds of people who actively play your game. I already made a pause of a month already and currently Im mostly playing PoT too (which has a horrible community lol) but no other game fills the dino survival niche so I kinda miss the old times where it was still fun. Sadly no one plays spiro anymore so thats not an option 😦

I only see them losing more and more players with even loyal players getting sick of it who endured alot. Transparency would solve this and its not that hard XD

[golden coral]

Well, they do take in ideas, if the ideas aligns with their vision and goal. Problem is, a lot of people don't really understand, or even want, what the Isle is intended to be, and thus people feel like the devs don't listen and all that. As for them communicating more and better, well, it would be nice, but there's also the risk of misunderstandings, and the whole things change, which people might not always take into account. Thus, there's a risk of "well, dev said this, and now they changed it, dev bad" and so on. People have gotten quite tired of the stamina changes, that is true enough, but the fact is, those changes probably tie in to how the devs want the game to be played, and it's for good or ill, rather likely that a big part of the playerbase, if not a majority by any means, don't want to play the game like the devs intend.

[grizzled anchor]

I think "well, dev said this, and now they changed it, dev bad" is better than "well dev don't say anything, dev bad".
And I get they want the game their way but it still should be enjoyable for the ones playing it shouldnt it? And that can be achieved by looking what the Community wants and making compromises if possible to make sure it still is enjoyable. Right now theres not much to enjoy. And the biggest reason for me is because the whole game takes place in NE and E Plains... but theres no hint that the devs try to prevent these hotspots even though Ive seen very nice ideas which would discourage hotspots like this. Im not a fan of just sticking to one area for 8 hours I'd rather move around and encounter different dinos or ambush something which was just wandering to another region instead of sitting in a bush the majority of the time because you cant leave without starving but running around will get you killed since theres like 40 people there

[stark knoll]

#isle-discussion message

#isle-discussion message

#isle-discussion message

[golden coral]

I don't know, I think either option is bad, and it might be better to say nothing at all, honestly. But Lunary here provided some info for you, so the devs do communicate. Maybe not as much as you'd like, but there is some info there. And well, yes the game should be enjoyable, but to whom is the question. The current playerbase isn't neccesarily the playerbase the game is meant for, see humans as an example of how it will most likely change quite drastically when they get implemented properly.

Heh, I dislike migrations personally and wish we could hold a territory and live there. I don't mind sticking in one area if I like the area and it suits my needs, but well, the devs don't seem to want that. Hotspots are bad in their own way, but I'd rather have multiple hotspots all at the same time, than one "changing" hotspot due to migrations.

[minor ocean]

Why can a full grown teno chase Down and kill a full gown healthy carno 🤔

[frail bobcat]

just hide

[minor ocean]

Yea but for balance reasons it’s doesn’t make sense like- hide from a solo prey animal

It can do more damage and run faster than me?

Shouldn’t the trade off for food security be lower attack

[frail bobcat]

its not faster than you, lmao

[minor ocean]

No but it has more Stam

[frail bobcat]

then just get out of sight before your stam runs out

[minor ocean]

I get what your saying- but for BALANCE reasons- how come a full grown carno has to run and hide from a full grown teno

[frail bobcat]

because tenos are good fighters

carnos can fight tenos, it takes some practice tho

[minor ocean]

Shouldn’t Carnos be better fighters?

[frail bobcat]

why?

[minor ocean]

Bc they’re predators and have tenos on their diets

[mighty tree]

cerato has deino on its diet

[minor ocean]

HOT TAKE- but predators should be better fighters then herbivores- you know bc they eat meat

[slim dragon]

I like where this is going

[shadow vortex]

Did you prepare your gif already? xdd

[minor ocean]

Cerato is a garbage disposal that eats everything

[slim dragon]

It's literally at the top of my favorites list

[minor ocean]

It’s a scavenger/clean up crew

Carno has a specific diet bc it’s an active hunter

And the trade off for that should be good fighting

It should be able to 1v1 all its diet- if they’re the same growth

HOT TAKE

[mighty tree]

eat grass and die

[slim dragon]

Diets are just stupid

[frail bobcat]

I vote for the same thing for omni

1 vs 1 against a deino, lets go

[slim dragon]

What's on your diet has literally no correlation to what your playable is supposed to be good at hunting

[minor ocean]

Dieno isn’t on carno diet idiot

[minor ocean]

HUH

WHAT

[frail bobcat]

1. dont insult me 2. learn to read

[slim dragon]

Also doesn't troodon have stego on its diet or smth ?

[golden coral]

Why not? Carno are small game hunters, teno is almost as large as it. It's not something you can look at and make it go away, any more than it works the other way around. But you could always fight it, if you don't want to run?

[minor ocean]

Teno has enough stam to chase down full carno

[mighty tree]

maybe cause teno is like 15kmph slower than carno and therefore if it was weaker would be easy prey with its only carno counter being alt f4

[golden coral]

Eh, no, there's such a thing as pack hunts too.

[minor ocean]

Different Dino’s have different play styles and their diets reflect that

[golden coral]

I mean, troodons can kill stegos, because that's balance somehow xD

[slim dragon]

Yeah
Nerf stego still

[mighty tree]

should eat grass and die

[minor ocean]

Stego just needs a predator added

[slim dragon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/1187576325574238238/text.gif?ex=659763a4&is=6584eea4&hm=8a6361e7f4e655e2d488233cd94b1dada6b45dcfa099a42396d0d92d4a5c0e7d&

[mighty tree]

my apex crocodilo shoudl 1v1!

[slim dragon]

Well it has troodon

[slim dragon]

I know you've all been waiting for it

[minor ocean]

Lmao idk what troodons niche is

Is it a scavenger?

[slim dragon]

It's a pack hunter

[golden coral]

I don't think even troodons know it, since it's probably not finished when it comes to balancing

[mighty tree]

small pack hunter with venom

[golden coral]

Same really does go for most playables

Anyway, a teno is doable for a carno to hunt, but it is easier in pairs. And you shouldn't have too difficult of a time to escape one, run into forest, sneak away.

[minor ocean]

Listen all I’m saying is that Dino should match it’s ecological, niche and diet

I think don’t think a solo teno chasing down and hunting a solo carno is super realistic

[prisma vessel]

man youre a genius

[minor ocean]

Thank you- sometimes I scare myself

[slim dragon]

Well
Carno's niche is not to hunt teno, as it is designed to hunt small prey
When it's alone, at least

[prisma vessel]

I was being sarcastic

[minor ocean]

I know

[prisma vessel]

A point ive made before is that deinocheirus would easily win against tarbosaurus

[minor ocean]

Then take teno off diet

[mighty tree]

ever thought of hunting young individuals?

[slim dragon]

Diets need a complete rework
Species-specific preferences need to be removed

[mighty tree]

species specific diet is pretty useless anyways

[minor ocean]

Diet should reflect play style

[mighty tree]

*eats your organs

[slim dragon]

That was before the organ value nerf

[prisma vessel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1015985223114162268/1156322337910693908/image0.gif?ex=65148c98&is=65133b18&hm=b639e269d30ab5caab66e4ac081fdf96291c1c57f75447a82c203fe75904e09a&

this is a serious discussion on why teno should be easy prey for carno

[minor ocean]

If solo carno should run from teno- then teno shouldn’t be on diet

[prisma vessel]

which we should take 100% seriously

[minor ocean]

I’m shitting rn

[prisma vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-care-idc-prodeunb-interesting-do-not-care-gif-24371236

[golden coral]

You can hunt smaller ones, or hunt them in pairs

[minor ocean]

Right right

I agreee with that

[golden coral]

But sure, if you want less dietary options, we can remove them xD

[minor ocean]

But why should a solo predator fear a solo prey

[golden coral]

Because some prey are quite dangerous

[frail bobcat]

because the solo prey is stronger

[minor ocean]

AND THATS THE ISSUE

if they prey is stronger

[golden coral]

A solo rex should fear a solo trike, a solo raptor should fear a solo pachy, because in both of those cases, the herbi is quite powerful, perfectly capable of taking on its predator

[minor ocean]

M valid

[frail bobcat]

@slim dragon

[golden coral]

And in both cases, the carni can choose the engagement, and get an ambush off

[slim dragon]

Already posted it

[prisma vessel]

a solo trike wouldnt fear a solo omni

[minor ocean]

but can a trike or pachy chase down their prey

Ok ok valid points

[mighty tree]

weak herbivore shantungosaurus running away from the powerful fierce omniraptor

[minor ocean]

Pack size is also a factor

[prisma vessel]

Omniraper is the alpha in that situation

[slim dragon]

Every herbivore's survival strategy isn't to reproduce faster than carnivores can eat them
Some of them will just turn their predators into paste so they don't have to run away or hide

[minor ocean]

Stego/trike

And teno 💀

[slim dragon]

Yes teno too
On a smaller scale

Teno will wreck things its own size and run away from rex

[mighty tree]

erm hello? ornithopod should run away from fierce theropod

weak + defenseless

adapt into dryosaurus 45.0

[slim dragon]

Just like rabbits will kill predators small enough but run away from larger things
Except stoats
Because stoats are built different

[prisma vessel]

vicious rabbit brutally mauls newborn child

[mighty tree]

thats exactly what i did to fresh spawned dilos on my dryo with its new attacks

[prisma vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[mossy holly]

Allosuarus!

[minor ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/gentleman-giga-chad-sigma-male-gif-25702945

[hollow canyon]

some of them but not that many of them, Tenonto realistically would get absolutely butchered by Carno

and Cerato

and probably Dilo

Omni too most likely

realism and talking about how things work irl is not a good argument in favour of Teno

it will never be a good argument in its favour

[minor ocean]

I’ve always thought that the danger of being a predator is starving to death

While the danger of being prey is the predator

Just as pack sizes play a part in balancing dinos - so should food availability

[stuck rivet]

yes

[uncut trellis]

Has anyone tested how far it takes for carno to knock down a teno with charge?

[solemn citrus]

@scarlet onyx Regen already works as sit/stand for 0-50% and walk/trott for 50-100% as confirmed recently since last patch from Filipe I believe, dont remember exactly who from the screenshot I saw.

[scarlet onyx]

Whatever you read was misinterpreted or miscommunication. This is how it actually works right now, test it yourself if you wish. Convoluted, overcomplicated, and unnecessary.

[solemn citrus]

Not miscomunication at all.

[solemn citrus]

Tested it a lot today as well.

[stark knoll]

He was correcting this person

75%+ allows trot, 50%+ allows walk

[scarlet onyx]

It is. Like I said go test it yourself. I just did to make sure I'm not crazy, and I can promise you it doesn't work like that

[scarlet onyx]

There ya go.

[solemn citrus]

Working fine for me, just tested it again, trott from 50 to 75% and not just from 75 to 100.....Though I noticed earlier during testing this that if you trott in wallow pits, some of them will regen up to 25% really fast, obviously just a glitch and not purposful, but funny how that was reacting to me and my pack.

[scarlet onyx]

What creature are you testing this with? Or are you confused on the difference between trot and walk. Don't pass around missinfo, nothing regains stam with trot at 50% afaik

[slim dragon]

Isle's Teno doesn't
Because Teno's survival strategy in the Isle is to murder things its own size or smaller and run away from things too big

[cosmic pelican]

@waxen swift Every animal has the same regen time for testing purposes. #isle-discussion message

[toxic zinc]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350260027129865/1200047906657402920
Am I stupid for wanting this and lowkey needing this to play in a Pack?
Like Cannibalism is trendy and Herbivores can't tell there teammates that there is a predator stalking them without stopping in place and typing hey guys theres a Predator stalking and that takes a while and usually in my experience I am the one that gets eaten

[balmy briar]

@toxic zinc #balance-feedback message but what if i dont wanna listen to a neckbeard in my pack?

[balmy briar]

TBF i have a fix for this since the dawn of time

its called only use 4 call in a emergency situation, whoever abuses it gets the stick in my pack

so if someone 4 calls u know SOMETHING is wrong, not exactly what yet, but my pack enters a state of alert

we also 1 call when we find a target

so that others can join in, just getting by using the game provided tools properly

and for the really pro stealth hunts, we go discord cuz it muffles us ingame

and id still opt for discord anytime, due to the dinosaur im playing producing 0 sound

(that said i do like your idea, just add a mute button to your suggestion)

[hollow canyon]

which is why talking about realism is counterproductive when it comes to it - Teno would struggle really badly if it lived with all the animals it's surrounded by in Evrima

[neon willow]

I do this too. Also just because some animals 4 calls are absolutely obnoxious if spammed... Looking at you, troodon

[dawn falcon]

Wait this is somehow “miscommunication?”
It just seems like he’s telling the truth, walk regen in fact starts at 50% and onward

[stark knoll]

It's not miscommunication if you have the full context of the message

[hallow hinge]

they say dilo venom reduces for 1 min right ?

then why iam still venomed for 5 min ?

[midnight elk]

It starts to recover after a minute and then the next five are for full recovery I'm pretty sure

[misty verge]

ye as Nyx said. So imagine it as a mechanic similar to the 'blood pool', At the start the level of intoxication is 100%, then after 1 minute it will start to reduce until at 5 mins it's at 0% intoxication

[hallow hinge]

it was night time and i just got bite once as a raptor( body ig cuz my hp bar were still green) and i need to wait 5 min

this nerf only good for big dinos cuz for mid-small size dinos at night got stage 3 with one body bite so ig it mean toxicity lvl is full right ?

[grizzled anchor]

@north summit I like your idea of the death roll but somehow this community hates if the deino can prey at anything large for whatever reason :/ So I fear the deino will just be very bad once bigger dinosaurs come out.

@teal jacinth Saying pachy is weak and the mentioning you fought 8(!!!) utahs and lived is wild 🤣

[dusky surge]

it will never be bad, even if larger dinos come out

[grizzled anchor]

I disagree but we'll see. Dont see any reason why they should be able to attack bigger prey aswell though. Kinda takes away the fear of drinking completely for everything over 4 tons

[dusky surge]

nothing hunts it, even if they're larger

only true risk to it is spino

[grizzled anchor]

If its full grown yes but other semi aquatics could easily kill smaller crocs which would be enough for population control imo

[dusky surge]

bary only poses a threat to juvis, sucho is a shallow wader (thus rarely interacting with deino's preferred depths)

basically, subs and adults will only have spino to worry about

and cannis, i guess

[grizzled anchor]

if you're talking about in the water yes but thats not surprising it was the apex and a spino won't catch up to a deinosuchus anyway so they don't have to fear anything besides other crocs if they're not jumped or make a bad decision.
I also dont see why sucho would stay in shallow water only. Its not like theres many shallow water spots on the map in the first place. If you're talking about the behaviour of the actual dino then spino is mostly found in shallow waters aswell.

[dusky surge]

sucho is a literal shallow wader tho

like in game, that's what it is

[grizzled anchor]

Saying it is doesnt explain it 😂
So once again for what reason should sucho players stay in shallow waters only?

[dusky surge]

probably poor or no diving capabilities

given the fact that it is a wader

[hollow canyon]

what's deep water for animals now could be relatively shallow for Sucho though, Suchomimus is over 3m in height

but I agree we could use some spots like the old central swamp on Spiro

that'd be the perfect place for Sucho

Overall not much will be killing Deinosuchus aside from other Deinosuchus and maybe Spinosaurus/large animals if they catch it traversing land between bodies of water

[grizzled anchor]

So I just did some research regarding this topic. Actually not easy to find many articles talking about the suchomimus since they talk mostly about the more popular spino. But from what I've read its not even sure if the Spino had good diving capabilities.

"That model shows that on land S. aegyptiacus was bipedal and in deep water was an unstable, slow-surface swimmer (<1 m/s) too buoyant to dive.)"

But Aken did have a valid point regarding the size of the sucho. Most rivers arent that deep so a sucho could easily live there.

[grizzled anchor]

It was the Apex in water for a reason 😄 just like todays crocs dont have many threats.

[north summit]

Deinos hunt other Deinos. Stegos are the only other sustainable food source so you’ll get a nice grab on a Teno but two Deinos will come and bully your kill or just kill you, too.
But Stegos are currently overpowered in the present Dino line up, probably getting added back with more land apex additions

[dusky surge]

in game, it is a wader lol

[hollow canyon]

Spino isn't so much meant to dive afair it's meant to Hippo-walk on the bottom of lakes/rivers

something like here on the bottom picture

[grizzled anchor]

I dont get it? English isn't my first language tho 😅

[hollow canyon]

wading is what it kind of does on that picture above

[grizzled anchor]

Same would apply to Sucho then would it not?

[hollow canyon]

no, because Sucho would start swimming if it went into deep water

[grizzled anchor]

Aaah alright that explains it 😄
But how can spino be a real threat to a deinosuchus if its mostly wading? 🤔

[hollow canyon]

Spino would effectively keep walking

on the bottom of that river

even if its head gets submerged under water

[grizzled anchor]

Okay that was the point I missed there

[hollow canyon]

but idk if it's overall meant to be unable to swim or if it can do both

[grizzled anchor]

Well the thing is that no one is too sure what is true in the end. Its all just estimates based on the found skeleton and as I've read there weren't many semi-aquatic dinosaurs so they're a special niche aswell

[hollow canyon]

no, I'm saying in game - the devs have said that Spinosaurus will be hippo-walking on the bottoms of rivers and lakes

[halcyon elk]

Iirc I think it's a reverse beipi. Spino naturally sinks and requires stamina to float. And swimming is slow for it. While hippo running makes it able to cover ground very quickly.

[hollow canyon]

irl there's a big debate as to whether it was a pursuit predator that would swim under water or a heron-style piscivore that would stand in the shallows and grab fish as they were swimming by similar to bears

[halcyon elk]

Our spino is very different compared to irl though.

[hollow canyon]

yea, very, very different

much longer legs, far more bulky, arms are even more gigantic, jaws seem vastly more robust

[hollow canyon]

regarding Deino:

Deino growth changes (Deino spawns much smaller, grows longer, and scales slower)
Deino might be able to drag larger things into the water
Stego spear fishing for deinos might no longer be a thing or atleast less effective

apparently that's from the stream

actually:
#isle-discussion message

[frail bobcat]

@old blaze the stamina favours omni, especially in packs. Once you get your prey below 25% stam, they cant regen any stam anymore, period. Pounce forces pounced animals to stand up. Omni packs are very good once you get your prey to waste their stam.

[dusky surge]

why is people's solution to dilo being too fast is to make omni even faster?

doesn't that screw over a ton of animals that were already at risk of omni predation like galli, pachy, troodon and dryo?

[frail bobcat]

Just make dilo slower

[tropic horizon]

We clearly need omni to be faster than galli

[dusky surge]

obviously

[frail bobcat]

Nah, let it be faster than ptera

[dusky surge]

the issue isn't that dilo is too fast, it's that omni isn't annoying enough

[tropic horizon]

The most agile predator in the game also needs to be the 2nd fastest predator in the game!!!1!1!1!

[dusky surge]

hell, i'm fine with dilo being faster than omni if it didn't also have insane stamina

just... nerf dilo's stam lol

[frail bobcat]

And insane DpS

[dusky surge]

why does dilo sprint for that long

[frail bobcat]

Bro butterfly clicks its bite

[dusky surge]

why does dilo have more endurance than an omniraptor

[frail bobcat]

Because the isle

[dusky surge]

the issue i have with this community is they see a problem then somehow find the worst, most disruptive way of addressing it

[frail bobcat]

Did you know that interactive gameplay is back

[dusky surge]

buffing omni's speed just makes every omni matchup (besides dilo) exceptionally omni-sided

[tropic horizon]

Insta ram? Yeah that hasn’t gone away

Never was taken out

[dusky surge]

it's like pulling out a loose brick because it's weakening the structure, but realising that brick held the entire structure up

[tropic horizon]

I think they might’ve nerfed charge damage but I’m not too sure about that so don’t quote me

[frail bobcat]

They havent

[old blaze]

Omni is one hit to most of the roster anyway and utah was 56 km/h with ambush in legacy and it felt much better

[frail bobcat]

Utah was 43 kmh

[tropic horizon]

Oh that’s incredible

[old blaze]

Ambush meta 56 km/h

[dusky surge]

legacy was balanced completely differently tf is this argument lol

[tropic horizon]

Omni has to make a ton of mistakes to get one shot now

[frail bobcat]

It wasnt balanced

[dusky surge]

in PoT, sarco is extremely fast on land therefor the deino needs a speed boost

[tropic horizon]

To get one shot by a teno you have to run right into their tail, to get one shot by a carno you literally have to be blind and deaf, to get one shot by a cerato you have to pretty much let that happen

[frail bobcat]

Ambush speed is not a thing anymore. You cant say, because of that mechanic that doesnt exist anymore, this needs a buff

[dusky surge]

in BoB, my rex is able to dive underwater and emerge to attack unsuspecting prey, therefor rex should be a semi-aquatic

legacy is an entirely different game with different balance philosophies, it should not be used as the basis of balance in EVRIMA, because it would never work

raptor doesn't need a speed boost, because that would require reassessing the speed of a massive portion of the roster

hell, dilo being faster than raptor isn't even that bad

address its insane stampool and it's fine, it should be allowed to bolt away from raptors given how quickly a raptor shreds it if it can keep up with a dilo

[golden coral]

To be fair, legacy was very different. I'm not sure that's a good argument. As for your feedback, I'd rather slow dilo down a bit, at least I would consider that first, rather than up omni speed to higher levels. And maybe improve omni agility a bit more compared to dilo, if the issue is "I can run you down", since that'd also help vs carno potentially.

[old blaze]

Giving a small speed increase wouldn't make it op nor require reassessing the rest of the roster. In fact I don't even remember if I've ever been killed by an omni unless you wanna count cannibal raptors. I'm not the best player out there but I've never had problems defending against omni, it's always the certain player group that don't know how to buck saying otherwise

[stark knoll]

Making it as fast as galli isnt a small increase

[old blaze]

Galli is 55.5 km/h unless you don't know how to eat

[golden coral]

Does the speed have to be upped that much, wouldn't even a little increase, or decrease in dilo speed give more leeway?

[old blaze]

From 46.8 km/h to 49.9 km/h is a little increase, it's only 3 km/h while carno and galli would still remain +5km/h faster

[golden coral]

I'd say it's quite a large increase, but that could be a bit relative I guess. I was mostly thinking that maybe increasing omni a tiny bit then, and decreasing dilo a tiny bit, would even it out, and that omni might not need to be faster, just have a bit more leeway.

[frail bobcat]

The issue is that dilo can outstam omni while outspeeding it

[old blaze]

It depends how you look at it, raptor just hasn't felt the same after the universal speed reduction.

[mossy holly]

Raptor is just garbage atm

it's pounce is unreliable, doesn't do too much, and nukes your stam.

[hollow canyon]

Utaraptor in legacy was 43.2km/h and I did complain about it a tonne

[hollow canyon]

Omni has no business going anywhere near 49.9km/h

The one thing I'd buff about it is the pounce travel speed

[scarlet onyx]

Nuking stam is the real culprit. I pounced a late sub carno last night for at least half my bar and legit couldn't follow his blood trail because of the massive stam buff sub carno has. He always stayed ahead of me. I get that solo omni isn't ideal for pounce but damn does it really need to be like that

[mint rain]

Raptor and Troodon pounce are by far the worst moves in the game. With raptors kick being a close 3rd

[scarlet onyx]

Is the kick worse than bite?

[frail bobcat]

But how about we make pounce more reliable and nerf dilos stam before we screw with omnis speed?

[tropic horizon]

The kick does more than the bite but by like 5 damage

70 damage instead of 65

[frail bobcat]

@balmy briar how about making it dynamic. So that you cant a teno from the back, but from the front. Cant pounce a pachy from the front , but from the front etc

[tropic horizon]

I kinda want raptor to sort of be able to scramble around someone while they’re pounced and each latch point having its own down side and up side

Like say if you’re latched onto the back of a creature, they won’t be able to knock you off however you’ll take a great deal of stamina damage with bucking as an example

Maybe allow like 3 latch points for omni those being leg, flank, and back (if it’s a viable option ofc, don’t want Omnis latching onto a kentro’s spikes or a stego’s plates)

Each point having its own up and down side for latching onto them

Like the flank just being the typical pounce with the least stam drain but you can get knocked off easier or the leg slowing the victim to a trotting pace but also allowing them to shake the raptor off onto the ground when they buck

Idk if these are good ideas I’m just tryna think of how to improve or change pounce

[scarlet onyx]

Last I recall plenty of modern day predators will pounce their prey from behind, I never understood why that shouldn't be possible for omni.

[tropic horizon]

Yeah it’s strange that it can’t, yeah it shouldn’t be able to pounce head on but at least enable it to pounce from behind

[scarlet onyx]

Especially with things like carno or teno having a thicc hind/tail

[balmy briar]

yeah that sounds actually pretty cool too, in general i just want 3 flanks available and 1 to block, so that we can cope with the desync and latency issues that are still very strong in this game.

also i dont think we should be able to pounce a kentro, and if so only a small section that requires high accuracy between the spikes

unique case imo

its a walking spikewall

[tropic horizon]

Yeah kentro should pretty much hard counter pouncers because of its build

[balmy briar]

mhm 100% agree, as a omni main

[tropic horizon]

As much as raptor can be annoying I do respect omni mains for maining probably the most painful to fight as animal in the game

[golden coral]

Depends on the size of the area between the shoulder spike and the tail I'd say, if you can fit an omni there, sure. Or maybe fit smaller omnis, like a sub or so.

[balmy briar]

yeah exactly what i ment

if that is physically possible , sure , but high accuracy requirements

[golden coral]

Since we don't know kentro model size and how it would look with an omni there, but if there is space so it looks reasonable, then it should work

[balmy briar]

if u mess up, ur a spiked bbq item

[tropic horizon]

Mmmm omni kebabs

[balmy briar]

i guess then u could bait a tailswing, and during that time find the "sweet spot"

skill requirement for sure

[golden coral]

To be fair, most current day animals don't have long, thick tails that would get in the way of you getting on to their sides as much, I think at least?

[balmy briar]

imagine missing that pounce after a tail swing, and still being spiked 💀 id feel awefull

[scarlet onyx]

Could climb onto them via the tail theoretically, probly much more difficult but still. Extra stam cost for rear pounces or something idk

[golden coral]

@balmy briarI will say, I've no idea why they've changed pounce distance/look angle, missed more pounces in my testing due to that than due to the new latch requirements

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, you could, you could have specific anims/latch points for tail and head, it's just the "pounce anywhere, get to side just fine" that I at least found bad. If they added a latch point at the face that would put you at risk of being bitten, and one on the tail that'd do no bleed/damage but have mobility effects, that'd be something

But I was mostly thinking that critters today that do pounce from behind don't generally have to deal with a tail getting in the way much? Though granted, that depends on the critter and its target I guess

[keen plover]

Probably a cursed idea but I do think that rather than making Omni faster, dilo being a bit slower at day could work. Like it drops to 46.5km/h during the day. While getting back to full speed during the night.

[mint rain]

Kick does the same damage

[balmy briar]

kinda acceptable imo

[balmy briar]

wish it did 1.5 of a bite ngl

kicks are trickshots

or maybe a longer bleed duration

[balmy briar]

@fathom yoke now ul have to chip in yourself

[fathom yoke]

Ah yes, the equivalent "just man up" response lol. I'd be fine with the current timer once they fix water/mud interactions with hallucinations.

[candid sail]

man, just started playing again, stam regen takes days

[white crest]

@old blaze I really respect you as an omni player, and I agree with all you points except the speed, omni has good enough agility imo to dodge other threats. But every other point I agree with

[cobalt dagger]

I haven't played since the recent update, but I worry Dilo will get over-nerfed and shredded by things.

Prior to the recent update I actually encountered several raptors and carnos who knew how to do all in their power to make life hard for a dilo, but of course carnos were harder to avoid.

On two occasions I got bitten to death by raptors who I apparently should have run away from, but over-estimated my ability from all the feed back complaining about how bad raptor is in raptor vs dilo. Even me and a friend 1 v 1'd and the raptor lost every time. I doubt it was skill because it was a face-tank battle; My dilo was 80-70% grown. I guess the raptor was an adult and I guess a 80-70 dilo can't face tank an adult raptor.

I was alt biting too so it wasn't that

But, even with my worries that it will get over-nerfed,

I think it's better for a single thing to be too nerfed than to have a single thing dominating the whole server.

Which it kinda was and maybe still is, since I haven't played since the latest update

[old blaze]

Well we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. Sure omni is agile and can dodge but it just doesn't feel as fast as a raptor should be, only time it feels right is when it's not gully grown yet and still has that sub/young adult speed. Like I mentioned in the post it's so much easier to chase down omni as cera/pachy/teno when you maybe gain 10m distance running across an open field to the forest whereas carno would be long gone if you'd had to chase it as omni.

[dusky surge]

it is quite literally one of the most mobile animals in the game bar-none

every animal faster than it is FAR less agile

it absolutely does not need a speed boost, it's already pushing it with the current speed

[junior harness]

It's not the speed on it that bothers me really, it's the desync in the game that causes its necessary functions and agility to be useless against anything faster than it, especially with rubberbanding in a lot of cases teleporting you closer to your faster enemy

[balmy briar]

il give you that, that is true

but then make ur suggestion reflect that and not the timer tryna get a upgrade ;D cuz im glad i dont die to dilos anymore 3-4 min after i ate them 🙂

[balmy briar]

i agree with this aswell, everything is good, just not the speed

tho 🤔 i do agree, 50 km/h is nice

i just dont think its the right way for omni as it can suddenly catch a galli who needs to WIND UP to speed up

So ud have to ensure galli is still above Omni in terms of speed. The fact it has a windup is its greatest weakness already, its litterally how i catch them when they turn too sharp or didnt even see me yet and i ambush

[hollow canyon]

that's probably a good nerf, make it a bit slower during the day

[hollow canyon]

Dilo seems to be getting a big powerspike during the end of its growth so it could be that. I'm also wary of it being overnerfed. I think the suggestions that it should be a fraction of km/h slower than Omni during the day while retaining its current speed at night seems reasonable.

[distant torrent]

tbh with nerfs for daring to not log during the time of day where they’re not “supposed” to be as active (because they’re nocturnal), I feel like sleeping during the hours of the day they’re not encouraged to be hunting or as active at should slow down their food, diet, and water drain to either close to nothing or just pause it entirely.

I’ve been thinking about the old suggestion of dilo venom reducing nv, and I think I’d prefer that instead of a speed nerf because:

• it’d cause venom to not work during the day because nv is not needed during the day
• it stops them from being way too effective at day compared to night (if you think about it, day hunting is BETTER because the dilo literally has crystal clear vision while the envenomated target does not. at night, dilos will be just as limited in their vision as their target and will not have clear day vision)

[hollow canyon]

that'd be fine I think, slowing down their food and water drain during the day

[distant torrent]

specifically for sleeping

it’d be a nice alternative for straight-up logging. I’d also love for it to be applied to other playables

that way, ceras, stegos, and future playables with horrid nv have alternatives and still have risks since sleeping does leave you in a very vulnerable state

[hollow canyon]

idk about sleeping, that just encourages being afk

because that's what sleeping effectively is

also leaving you in such a vulnerable state might be outright worse than logging off

[junior harness]

For a case like needing to keep up with migration zones or just not wanting to stay in one place for long, it'd be fair to slow their food and water drain down during the day, not while only sleeping. As long as other aspects about them are weakened (venom not working as effectively, speed debuff that isn't too severe so they can still effectively travel), I think this could work out and allow them to become more night-oriented predators while still being able to at the very least escape predators and travel during the day if need be. There will still be some people who would rather just log off until the next game night though, I'm sure

[distant torrent]

I think it’s fine. it’s just an alternative if you don’t want to log and want to feel a bit more immersed. I’d personally also like it because I prefer to just go afk instead of log because waiting for the server number to decrease is a chore and sitting in a bush is easier

it’d also add more hunting opportunities. stealthily follow someone you want to hunt then strike when they try to hide to sleep

I only see it adding more benefits and personal choice

but a middle ground could be:

• metabolism at day is still slowed down
• sleeping will slow it down even more

[junior harness]

I can see that point, and I actually would love it if sleeping without safe-logging was a feature. Some people will still see that middle ground as encouraging either AFKing (which the devs and some players don't want), or safe-logging entirely, which can be annoying for some of the more active players who want to stay on the move. Actually, the slowed metabolism in the day would be a good idea for Troodon as well, though I'm not sure if they're already planning something with the little guys to make them a proper night terror. Regardless, while I would like if sleeping could be utilized more, I just don't think it should be tied to slowing your metabolism down further outside of your active hours.

[distant torrent]

people will afk regardless, and it won’t be much of an issue if they’re able to get high population servers to work without issues because then you’ll be more likely to find more players

[junior harness]

Very true. I'm mostly just going off of what the devs seem to want more than anything with that point of mine, though people will be going afk for different reasons at the moment

However, once a player has fully grown their dinosaur there is less reason to afk, other than regening stamina, which I figured if sleeping without logging were a thing, it could be a riskier but much quicker way of regaining that energy

Riskier because that's another animation you have to do that might be quite lengthy in order to get another boost to your stamina regen

In my personal opinion without that factor of an outside opinion? Going afk for a bit while your creature rests, whether it's after a hunt or filling up on food and water, shouldn't be so looked down upon. Might be a bit of a hot take, but a real carnivore after it feasts will likely spend a good chunk of time lazing about to digest that food, no? That's most of my herrera gameplay, not quite being afk, but once I've hunted and filled up, I just chill out in the trees. Would not be against sleeping having more of a function other than logging you out. Slowing down the metabolism, not so sure about it depending on if they're making food and water drain slower in the future anyway. If they aren't, then that would be a nice add-on, if they are though then maaaaybe not? Not sure. I'd have to think about it some.

[distant torrent]

they want to slow down gameplay, so that’s a big reason why I wouldn’t mind slower metabolism when sleeping during the times your playable aren’t supposed to be as active or effective

[junior harness]

It would be interesting. Especially if they're already slowing these values down, as they are absurdly fast at the moment for most playables

[distant torrent]

yep. they’re still spiro’s values back when stam regen was fast and you could run everywhere without much consequence

but apparently they’re not going to slow down base hunger drains? at least that’s what I’ve heard a bit ago. not sure

wanting to slow down gameplay while also not adjusting hunger drain feels like shooting yourself in the own foot a little bit tbh

just my opinion on that

[junior harness]

I was going to counteract your argument by saying if they did slow these values down, it'd make it unnecessary to hunt the next night or two if you had a successful night hunt and slept the whole day, but then I thought about it some more. If they are slowing gameplay down, then you shouldn't have to hunt every night, especially if you're resting outside of your creature's active hours. And we're talking if they only slowed metabolism down and not paused it during sleep. This would leave players with room to roam around the next night or two without having to worry too much about hunting (though any carnivore won't complain if they find easy food). I think I agree with you regardless of if they slow hunger/thirst drain down or not

It's not like you're forced to sleep during the day with those ideas in mind either. You're still able to do stuff, maybe even find some leftovers from something else, catch up with a migration zone, and all that, since I doubt the debuffs for being active during the day would be too horrible. Would be unfun if they made it too harsh, after all.

[distant torrent]

yea. never really been a fan of harsh debuffs (for certain things). it’d just make things feel more clunky, stressful, and overall unenjoyable

encouragement in a more positive way to encourage certain behaviors would be a lot better

[junior harness]

That, and if sleeping is utilized in that way, surely it could also become a faster (if riskier) way to regain stamina without having to sit there for too long. Especially after a hard fight for your life. While stamina management should still be important (thus sleeping being the risky but quicker way to get stamina if you're safe), it does feel like having a way to get it back quicker if you aren't in any particular danger would help give players just a bit less reason to go completely afk for those minutes it would currently take from just sitting.

[distant torrent]

that’d be a nice option for players

[white crest]

I see your point, I’ll respectfully agree to disagree

[white crest]

Exactly, omni is intended to be a generalist that’s meh at most things except it specializes in bleed, imo it would be weird for the generalist to also be good at speed.

But I do see why others want it, cuz at first I wanted it too.

[white crest]

That is a very nice idea actually 👀

What if dilo had lower base stats overall(idk maybe 15% less than now for example), but it gets buffed to its current stats during the nighttime

[junior harness]

The daytime debuff for dilo (and possibly troodon as those are also night-active critters) shouldn't be so punishing that they can't do anything in the day, but 15% less along with less effective venom does seem like it'd allow them to still at the very least travel during the day if needed. Much less effective venom possibly, as venom is already arguably a tad overtuned. I say this while keeping in mind that they'll probably be adjusting food/water drains across creatures (from what I heard anyway, correct me if I'm wrong) in the future, so they'd likely be able to have some breathing space even if they aren't actively hunting all day to just chill and do whatever.

[keen plover]

Imo it should keep its base stats other than speed. I just think that the speed can be looked at during the day. Possibly weaker venom.

Dilo has the strength, even while standing to fend off a solo raptor

[scarlet onyx]

What's the consensus on Cera this update? I've murdered and seen ceras murdered easier than any other playable right now.

The bile needs a total rework to be both more feared and more fair to both ends of it imo. And I think Cera damage could be increased slightly. Maybe better stamina too idk

[cosmic pelican]

In a 1v1 scenario agains similar sized stuff cera feels great, its also pretty good against omnis and pachies (thats no surprise tbh). Problems really start to show though when its outnumbered, you cant outlast your opponents and most likely cant outgun them either. Ceras saving grace would be water, but since the hotspots are filled with deinos thats almost never an option.

Ive had great, and abysmal moments with cera this update, its fun to play, but definetly an underdog rn

[scarlet onyx]

Yeah life as a solo Cera seems to have an overwhelming amount of predators to worry about in normal circumstances. I've soloed them multiple times by just facetanking with dilo then letting phantoms do the rest.

I think maybe the bile should start a bacterium timer that causes infection and vomit over a longer period. Right now it's a combat mechanic that only works if what you're biting is big enough to take hits and low enough on food to vomit.

I really like the idea of Cera being a consequence to fight. IE you may kill it but it will cause a world of problems for your health later on as a result. I think the current mechanic totally misses out on that aspect.

[cosmic pelican]

Imo the vomit sickness should last around 10-15minutes, just long enough that youll have to risk vomiting again with eating.

Would also give an actual reason to visit salt rocks.

[keen plover]

Stamina was buffed. Cera went from 90 seconds run time to 110s in the recent patch

But yeah it feels lacking. It’s Carno’s punching bag. Not saying it should stomp Carno but towards the end of spiro it felt nice

Ever since Carno’s stam + acceleration was buffed, the matchup became completely Carno sided.

Cera needs to be a bit more respected.

[frail bobcat]

well, apparently its getting buffed

[scarlet onyx]

Agree with all that, Cera feels legit like a fat kid at school getting picked on. I rarely view it as a threat

[scarlet onyx]

I think dondi just mentioned it getting more rot availability but maybe he mentioned other buffs

[tropic horizon]

I’d like to see cera have some wrestling capabilities like how its concept art depicted two of em locking up with eachother but I doubt that would happen

[vague helm]

@neat orchid you could've just..not ran that low on stam.

[neat orchid]

sitting being the only way to regen stam under 25% is so unrealistic.

[vague helm]

No not really.

Especially for animals.

Can you run so long to where you basically can't breath anymore and just stand there recovering?

Maybe as a Human. Sure.
But I think that doesn't go that way for animals.

And once again...you could've been more careful of your stamina.

[neat orchid]

animals have way more strength than humans and they can regen by standing. if it were 10% and below id understand but 25% nah. Also i was conserving stam but theres only so much you can do with like 8 raptors on you who once you kill several of them them have 2nd accounts or fg friends to take their place

[dusky surge]

more strength is not the same as more endurance

humans in particular have exceptional endurance as a species

no other creature can recover as quickly as we can when it comes to running and other high-energy activities

[vague helm]

Okay.
You got outnumbered and outlasted.

Good on the raptors.

I don't see that as being a stamina issue and more an issue with you failing to deal with the raptors properly.

Raptor is a endurance hunter meant to outnumber and draw out battles to tire out their prey.
It just so happened that they managed to do that with you

If you want. I can name a few ways to deal with Raptor so you have a better chance at dealing with them next time

[neat orchid]

the raptors did great it was a great fight they were def better than me and way more cordinated. the issue remains its unrealistic tht you cant regen stam.

[scarlet onyx]

There are literally so many animals that sleep or rest standing lmao

[neat orchid]

fr idc that i lost tht fight i care tht i couldnt regen stam even slightly its v unbalanced

[scarlet onyx]

I've grown up around horses my entire childhood they do not care about sitting down when tired. 4 legged as most are but still

[dusky surge]

funny you say that because horses are another rare case of an animal that has insanely efficient energy recovery

[vague helm]

It's not unbalanced. It is balanced.

You ran yourself so low on stam to where you got heavily punished for it.

Depending on what you are, it is more unfair for attackers.
You could be 0% stam as a stego, sat in a little corner hiding from Raptors, barely moving pretending to log out, and Raptors and everything else that may try to kill you couldn't even dare going in to attack you because they are afraid you recovered enough stam while standing to just spike them in the face.
I think that is unfair or unbalanced

Again, there are ways to deal with raptors quickly so that you don't run OOS, but Raptor is an animal that is quite literally designed around tiring you out and then taking you down when you are exhausted.

[halcyon elk]

Horses, wolves, and humans all have insane stamina. Humans have both best in recovery though.

[vague helm]

Realize how 2 of those are also "predators"

[halcyon elk]

Mhm. That and also sweating is really good for our recovery. If a horse did an equivalent of a marathon, it'd take days to get back to 100%

[vague helm]

Me when Gen 2's in TI have 18m of running with only like 1m15s stam regen(they also travel 7.5m/s

[halcyon elk]

At least a day. A human can recover in a few hours and continue

[dusky surge]

gen 2s are a

little overtuned

[vague helm]

Gen 2 Human is quite literally at world record pace. I feel like that is intentional, and I love it