balance-feedback-discussion

[distant torrent]

which is why they then add teno ai! :D problem solved

[cobalt dagger]

They do actually have group limits, but those don't even work properly since nothing stops 3-4 deinos from working together.

[distant torrent]

no tenos? no problem

ai tenos at your leisure for food~

[cobalt dagger]

Technically teno group limit is bigger than carno's but carnos usually outnumber tenos - because they get to pick their fights so they're more fun.

By allowing teno to have 8 and carno only 3 the developers expressed, I suppose an interest, in tenos finding safety in numbers.

Yet it doesn't work if no one plays teno because teno is slow and carno is fast.

And myself included, I've been enjoying Dilo lately, and Herra to a smaller degree.

A little bit of ptera too, because it's funny to peck dilos, they can't jump. I'm evil like that I guess.

BUT THAT'S JUST IT, it doesn't matter how many dilos there are, THEY CAN'T REACH ME I FLY and it's my choice to engage.

[golden coral]

So how would you balance it then? Because if you balance it differently it means you can't take on the thing solo?

As much as people don't like dying due to being outnumbered, you can't balance it otherwise because that'd make little to no sense and be unbalanced in it's own way

If a solo teno could take on a max group of carnos/omnis, then it'd never die to a smaller group or a solo carno or so

[cobalt dagger]

I would like to greatly increase carno's ability to survive without food, so that he doesn't NEED to engage every single teno he sees. I think in a situation of equal skill, 3 carnos should win easily vs 1 teno, 2 carnos should win 'but with some notable damage' or one of them dies, from 1 teno, and 1 v 1 teno should win 'with some damage.'

Adding onto this I wish animals who currently 'depend on hiding' for survival from predators, would be given non-hiding options of survival, so that at least the carno knows what his options are and can do the whole 'picking fights thing' better. But that the things he tries to pick fights with will be better at defending themselves, either by swimming or burrowing, climbing, running, dodging and out-stamina-ing him, or fighting him, just give them SOME way to stay alive when they can't hide.

[hollow canyon]

I didn't say group limits

I said make the game have no groups

forbid people to pack up

[cobalt dagger]

I did not say you said there were group limits I just am just trying to say that 'some numbers regulation already exist it just doesn't work'

And that if your forbade people to pack up they'd do it anyway

Just like mixpacking

[hollow canyon]

I did not say that with regard to making it so that people cannot group the way they do in the game, do it the way legacy did it

that's what I'm talking about, not about the inability of forming those groups

[cobalt dagger]

I don't think we disagree on this point

Well, except, I don't want there to be no grouping

But I think you are just mentioning it as a possibility, not that you want no grouping at all?

[hollow canyon]

well then you'll have to deal with the fact that if a number of faster animals shows up to you - you will likely die

[cobalt dagger]

Unless you are stego

Right now, multiple carnos cannot kill a stego.

This may change when rex comes of course, but this is why people play stego. And I do 'deal with the fact' by not playing those animals.

I play teno in 1 v 1 servers though.

[cobalt dagger]

Lots of people deal with teno's facts the same way I do, that's why there's so few.

To be honest I think it would be better to give the animal some way to survive, maybe not running, or maybe not fighting, but some better method of living.

[distant torrent]

I played stego and saw way more stegos than tenos back when I gave teno a try this update

[cobalt dagger]

Maybe that's why they're talking about giving it a more aquatic nature and I don't blame them for that.

[golden coral]

So, people will still die when outnumbered? So where's the issue then? And I wasn't specifically talking about carno vs something, you can apply this to any matchup where one side is faster than the other. I don't disagree with carno needing more downtime, or giving all playables more than purely fight or flight to survive encounters with. But none of that solves the "die to numbers no matter skill" issue.

[distant torrent]

literally only saw one other teno and never saw another after that lol

[golden coral]

But multiple tenos, omnis, ceras, dilos, and so on can.

Carno is one of the few, aside from herrera, that can't, due to how it works. Most others can outnumber and kill a stego

[cobalt dagger]

There will always be dying to numbers somewhere along the line yeah, I think maybe 'less of it' is what I'd like to see, since in the example I gave teno would have an advantage over the carno in the 1 v 1 and a 'fair fight' in the 2 v 1, but it would still die to 'numbers advantage' in the 3 v 1.

And I think dilo is a bit op right now and cera's kit is busted against herbis that need their stamina to do any real damage. Omni, dilo and carno all outrun cera but pachy, stego and teno all struggle to escape it and yet also super-need their stamina.

Even then though the stego, especially a stego of equal skill, may kill one or a few of them,

Or in equal skill maybe all of them

I'd say in 'equal skill' but 'all bad skill' then stego wins more and 'equal skill but all high skill' stego looses more

Because of how slow it's attack animation is

And as player reaction speed is increased stego suffers more

So, I don't think I want to see numbers advantage NEVER work on slower animals, but I do think it should be necessary to win in a situation of equal skill

And I would like (but will probably never get) skill to matter more than numbers.

Like, even with what I described, I would like to know that a skilled player could 1 carno v 2 teno and come out alive.

But it is hard to balance a game that specifically

So this is very idealistic.

Currently, I am happy that stego-teno-ect cost stamina to attack because I like the idea of baiting hits to win

I think it makes it 'possible' for a solo to kill a stego for example, because of this, if they are skilled and careful

I hope that stays in the game.

[golden coral]

You might, but you will die none the less, so you're still ending up having to regrow, which will suck since you also couldn't escape. So yes, at least we agree that there will be some inevitable death scenarios, no matter how good you are. And it's fine to limit that, and also limit the likelyhood of them happening with group limits and resources and all.

[golden coral]

I don't think Dondi likes that, from what I know

[cobalt dagger]

Really, interesting.

[golden coral]

And honestly, I very much disagree with your take that "solo killing stego" should be doable, that should only really happen if the stego is afk

[cobalt dagger]

I thought it was cool because it gave skilled players a way to defeat what would normally be a harder opponent

[golden coral]

The idea of baiting attacks and then go "now it can't fight back" isn't really good

[cobalt dagger]

Well, to mess up is lethal.

For stego at least, if you are fighting a stego.

[golden coral]

Still doesn't make it good that you can just count out attacks like that

Also still, no matter your skill, a solo omni or something should never be able to kill a stego unless it literally lets it do so

[cobalt dagger]

I am actually alright with it, but y'know I actually enjoy stego a bit and I've only ever died to stegos.

[golden coral]

Skill should only go so far, in both directions

[cobalt dagger]

People have tried to bait me but I seem to be pretty good at catching them.

I am a lot more bait-able on teno

Teno's straight line of attack is different from stegos big SWEEP

[golden coral]

And if you think a teno should be skilled enough to take on two carnos, I really don't see how you also think something being skilled enough should solo something that most certainly can't escape it

[cobalt dagger]

Well I think if the two carnos are more skilled then the teno should loose

I mentioned earlier that I'd like to see skill matter more than numbers/I'd like it if a skilled carno could take on 2 teno and come out alive.

But it's also idealistic because it's hard to balance the game that well.

I think though if slower animals had ways to climb, or swim, or fly, or... I dunno, be like a skunk and be stinky or something or taste bad like Magy- If they can just have some method to live I'd appreciate that.

[golden coral]

The prolem with your examples is that you're using various skill levels

[cobalt dagger]

I'd like all things to have a way to live.

[golden coral]

Which ... I mean, if a rex is utterly garbarge, a solo troodon might kill it

[cobalt dagger]

In my recent examples yes

[golden coral]

But it's kind of useless to balance and talk about that, because we don't balance based on bad players

[cobalt dagger]

That's fair

Talking about balance on equal skill level is important

[golden coral]

Like, yeah, you can solo a stego as smaller things, if the stego is just really really bad (well, to be fair, stego as a playable is bad, it's way weak and have rather garbage attacks)

[cobalt dagger]

But I don't think I can recall making any points about WHY something should be a certain way with any skill variables, only 'I would like xyz' which is not a 'It should be' statement but rather my desire or preferrence

[golden coral]

But, if the stego has even some ability to play, that should be plenty enough concerning the size and power difference that also exist, hence why you use numbers to punch up

[golden coral]

Didn't say you did, just trying to clarify, because the issue gets more so that "a teno should win over two carnos", applies fine if we talk about two carnos being rather bad. But if we're looking at the playable and the base capabilities, being used fully, then even two carnos would be too much for a solo teno to handle. And so on with the other examples

[cobalt dagger]

Need to brb real quick

[cobalt dagger]

No, I meant that of equal skill, teno should have a fair fight vs 2 carnos, such that either teno barely lives or teno dies and takes one down with them and injures the other

But, in equal skill, 3 carnos should ovepower a teno.

[golden coral]

I don't know, two carnos is still quite the bit for a teno to take on. I'd rather make teno a bit weaker and more semiaquatic I think.

Especially since dibble is a thing, and it's just overall much more of the "I will end you" critter I'd say

Make teno a bit better with claws perhaps, make it better vs smaller things in trade (since it's supposed to be hunted by troodon)

[cobalt dagger]

If we make it a fair 1 v 1 but the teno has some way to survive the water better, then I would be happy with that too.

However I don't know how an aquatic teno will survive against deino.

It will live on islands - will they make it marine/salt water and drink saltwater or something? Some seabirds can straight up drink saltwater and have built-in methods of filtering out the salt and getting it out through tears or out their nose, it's not impossible I guess.

But as long as it has a way to live then that's alright, so if we make it be swimming instead then that works as long as we don't run into the same issue all over again but with a swimming predator.

Currently though, I feel that teno vs carno is a fair 1 v 1 at the moment. This might change later though, I still have more to see regarding it.

[golden coral]

Deino needs to be sorted out in it's own way, but Gateway has at least, or so I've been told, made it harder for them

Not sure how effective it's been

[golden coral]

We'll do some fights and see

[cobalt dagger]

They still find their way into important bodies of water.

[cobalt dagger]

I am not sure if we can be called on equal skill level, so just us fighting alone wouldn't convince me one way or another, I would need to see more match ups. But, I am still okay with fighting you

[golden coral]

At the start? No. But I was thinking we'd keep practicing and all

The entire point of doing practice fights is to get better at things, no?

[cobalt dagger]

Fighting simply to get better at the game sounds nice too.

But I mean that I need to observe other people, not just us, 1 v 1

Which I do like to do

So in time I will be able to make such observations

[golden coral]

Well, if we get better, we can see how it goes for us

But we can have a look at what others do too, or have them join for practice as well

[cobalt dagger]

To be honest though, I am a bit curious - I wanna know what @dusky surge thinks - Do you think teno vs carno, 1 v 1, is a fair fight right now?

Because I am prompting you/asking you, I will try very hard not to argue with you answer no matter what you say, due to the fact that I asked you/prompted you and it feels rude to argue with you when I directly prompted you. I just genuinely wanna hear what you think because you seem to have detailed explantions and in-depth knowledge on stuff concerning this game that I don't have.

[dusky surge]

i think it's... balanced? but more balanced around carno waiting for teno to shred its own stam

[cobalt dagger]

Interesting, thanks for answering

[dusky surge]

i dont really like it atm

i like how teno hypothetically has an edge, but in practice, its stamcost is just way too punishing

[cobalt dagger]

Good to know... I remember you mentioned that.

[odd pebble]

Suuuper late to the discussion, but i agree with gallus on the fact that 2 carnos should be a "fair" fight for a teno. This doesnt mean that the teno will come out unscathed, in fact i'd argue that the teno should be at death's door ( Assuming that the carnos are not brain dead and actually exploits moments of vulnerability from the teno and tires it out ). 3v1 shouldn't be winnable for a teno on the ground ( you are fighting 3 animals that are heavier than you after all )

Keep in mind im talking about a teno that has a higher skill tham your average player

[cobalt dagger]

I am talking about equal skill for all. Would this still apply if, they all had higher skill than average, but all equal?

[odd pebble]

If they all had equal skill, i'd put them on equal footing in a 2v1

Maybe a slight advantage to the carnos

[keen plover]

tbf if you're both good carnos, even if teno had better stam costs, it still would likely lose in a 1 v 2

[dusky surge]

which is fair imho

[keen plover]

Yeah it is

but it isn't a straight up win for the carnos like rn

[odd pebble]

Yep. But in the current meta, teno has a better chance tbh

[dusky surge]

a teno should be a challenge to 1-2 carnos, but not an unkillable god

[odd pebble]

Exactly

[keen plover]

Also stam costs aren't intended since not in patchnotes

[odd pebble]

Idk, tailslam dmg nerfs have never been in patchnotes iirc

[keen plover]

Actually fair, but this one in particular wasn't meant to be a thing. Dondi hates people counting teno slams and going in to kill them after

Which is what people are doing rn

Especially with current regen, it's technically even worse than before

#isle-discussion message

[odd pebble]

also, is anyone else experiencing this bug? i wanna know if this is just an isolated event

[keen plover]

What server are you on / where are you from?

Apparently that's ping related

[odd pebble]

oh rlly?

[keen plover]

Might just be this patch in particular

Since yk, no one really tested it lol

[odd pebble]

i have a ping ranging form 60 -100 across diff officials

i saw this bug on au where i have 60 ish so i tested in norden

[keen plover]

Yeah it's all scuffed

Ping isn't reliable

[odd pebble]

it might be form something this update brought since ive never had this problem before

[scarlet onyx]

@vagrant finch did you mean to say faster? lol

[rigid tulip]

That is what happens when any attack costs anything in any videogame.

[junior harness]

So that's a massive scam that'll probably get your account stolen

[plucky aspen]

rt

ty

you made me find another too >:)

[wild cove]

Its a lot worse than before because unless a teno or stego just stands still, it gets no stam return. At least with a slow but passive regen on trot, it was somewhat variable. Nobody is going to just stand still or Z walk their teno in a fight with carnos or ceras unless they want to die

[dusky surge]

@tired canyon i agree, but are you aware that dryo has now gotten an entire arsenal of new attacks and can now even face off against a fg herrera on the ground?

also our next two animals being added to officials are diablo and maia, which means we will have a good few more herbis soon enough

[tired canyon]

I know that Dryo can hit with his tail, yes. but nothing more. It's possible that he can fight against a Herrera, but the Herrera also has an extremely low bite force. A dryo is unlikely to be able to do much against any other carnivore. please correct me if I'm wrong

[dusky surge]

it can kick, alt-bite and tailwhip

its honestly quite strong for its size

[tired canyon]

Okay, I didn't know about a kick. But still, I think he's not a serious opponent ^^' and sorry for my bad English, use a translator. hope you understand me

[dusky surge]

nah its all good

but yea, we are getting diablo, triceratops (in unofficial servers) and maia soon

[tired canyon]

I hope you are right. I love this game, I'm just not the most patient person xD but Diablo and Trice would be a good start. I would prefer Para to Maia, but Maia is ok too.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but if the Trice were to release unofficially soon, wouldn't that mean the Rex is on the way too? I'll leave you to worry that as soon as the Rex comes, it will destroy the ecosystem. but with the Trice it would be balanced? @dusky surge

[dusky surge]

rex is, yes

[tired canyon]

can hardly wait until the Rex is here xD in legacy almost 500 hours only played Rex ^^'

[dusky surge]

in order of release, it's diablo, rex, trike, maia

[tired canyon]

how do you know? I couldn't find anything anywhere about who's coming next. In one of the last dev blogs I wrote something about Diablo and Maia but nothing about Rex or Trice

[dusky surge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZQd_ha9zlE

watch this and it'll be clear

[tired canyon]

okay thanks. Well, I'm curious how long it will take.

[coarse blaze]

What is the "Apex System" exactly?

[coarse blaze]

Thank you hero

[frosty onyx]

anybody know that carnos full adult cant stun low or same class dinosaur thats is a bug or they nerf him?

[frail bobcat]

nerf

[frosty onyx]

sad ; _ ;

[dusky surge]

it can, but not with a tap ram

[frosty onyx]

Is there a reason I can understand why this nerf happened? I need information to explain to my community.

[dusky surge]

because carno was exceptionally overtuned in the last update

[cosmic pelican]

Carno could charge and knock things down right after pressing shift

[dusky surge]

and deal insanely high damage

[cosmic pelican]

It was pretty op to say the least

[dusky surge]

essentially a no-skill win button

[frail bobcat]

bro changed his pfp

[dusky surge]

u didnt read the FAQ

[frail bobcat]

FAQ?

[dusky surge]

my about me

[frail bobcat]

Ok, Reptile

[frosty onyx]

thank you so much @dusky surge for info now i can explain to my chat now why they nerf him

so anybody know when they will release Diby?

soon?

[cosmic pelican]

No ETAs, but probably in the next 2 months or so

[shadow vortex]

I wanna dryo be able to do a tail whip in motion :( It's a shame it can't

[fading zodiac]

Troodon Is like useless

Their pounce Is bugged again,Its hitbox same,and for some reason a fresh spawn cera can One shot it

And that's not even all,Hope It Will get better

[thin mantle]

nah troodon's still pretty good

[pearl tendon]

I purchased this game two months ago mainly due to my deep interest in dinosaurs since childhood, aiming to immerse myself in that stunning, free, open, and lively prehistoric dinosaur world. Thus, my focus was primarily on the atmosphere (and landscapes). While the new Gateway map has shown overall improvements, the isolated island setting falls short of my expectations for a free and lively atmosphere. When comparing it to The Spiro map, the overall vibe could be improved, and the legacy map seemed more dynamic as well. The concentration of numerous species on such a small isolated island in the new map also feels somewhat unrealistic. Adding a nearby mainland (I'd love to see some next-level mountains there too, like we had before) would be more logical and make the atmosphere a lot better. You might think it wouldnt make that much difference, but it will.

Bringing back pine or introducing redwood forests could enhance the environment too, and additional diversity would be a welcomed improvement. I also quite miss the rocky beaches with crabs we used to have. Hopefully, they'll add that back sometime.

[dusky surge]

redwoods are returning

[pearl tendon]

Really? That'd be great

[fading zodiac]

Adding other funny things
Right now,full adult troodon
Got One shotted by a ptera

Funny,very funny

[cosmic pelican]

Ptera has no way to 1 shot a troodon, unless its damaged. Not even an alt attack to the head will kill it.

[fading zodiac]

Even more funny

So?

What Happen there?

Hacks?

[shadow vortex]

Even though ptera has troo in its diet there’s almost no chances for the bird killing it

[shadow vortex]

Probably

[fading zodiac]

Nice

[shadow vortex]

I saw a man talking about a pachy killing two adult carnos, then he added like “finally they made him (pachy) good”. I should have told him, he-he…

[rigid tulip]

Only against dinos above omni size

[thin mantle]

Nah against omnis too

[dusky surge]

honestly if the venom was less annoying to apply, it'd be great

but the pounce really does feel clunky when compared to dilo's venom application

[thin mantle]

I typically don't use pounce very often

Bleed is strong enough as is

[dusky surge]

all i'd really do is give troodon a bite option to apply venom like dilo, except have the bite take several like dilo's

pounce would still be the insta-stack

[thin mantle]

well ideally more than dilos

[dusky surge]

yea ofc

[thin mantle]

Cuz dilo legit requires a max of 3

minimum of 1

[dusky surge]

i'd have troodon need minimum 2

[thin mantle]

I think there's also something to be said about troodon feeling so much worse that dilo is that dilos venom legitimately does everything

[dusky surge]

i mean that too

[thin mantle]

I don't even think troodon's venom is bad, it's boring, but dilo powercliffed the hell out of it

No visibility or scenting on top of a hallucination minigame you can use at range for 5 minutes

That's colossally stronger than troodons venom with way more utility

(imo too much utility)

[dusky surge]

if anyone should have the ridiculous venom, it should be Troodon

[thin mantle]

mhm

I have no idea why dilo is fast enough to escape or out manuever most animals, an HP pool to tank almost every attack in the game at least once, really good stam, the most powerful status effect in the game, decent damage and REALLY good bleed

[dusky surge]

I'd honestly have Troodon's venom last for longer and Dilo's for shorter, make them have equal-ish durations

[dusky surge]

Remember that despite all this, people still think it needs to swim faster or have a better turn radius

[thin mantle]

what in the actual hell is wrong with people

It's never talked about but dilo has some pretty disgusting bleed

Like if you're fighting a dilo you're never regenerating stam and you've gotta last for 5 minutes without even interacting with it

[dusky surge]

I honestly reckon Troodon could work well with the new wounded effect

If it were up to me, I'd have the wounded effect apply early if under the effects of venom

Basically Troodon's venom attacking the nerves and causing intense pain

[thin mantle]

Yeah quite possibly

I just don't wanna cliff venom up to dilos level

[dusky surge]

What's most bizarre to me is how Dilo spits in the eye of everything Troodon stood for

We don't want venom to be too oppressive otherwise mixpacks will take too much advantage of it
Dilo has a venom that actively restricts sight, scent and hearing

Venom can't last too long because otherwise Troodon will be too effective
Dilo's venom lasts for longer, to the point that people can spend 15 minutes under its effects

DoT would mean Troodon would merely need to envenomate the target and then leave, and that's not engaging
Dilo envenomates then just spams hallucinations for 5 minutes, no more engagement required

Troodon only gets venom at 65% as it'd simply respawn and immediately join the pack
Dilo gets venom at a young age with all the same benefits besides hallucinations

Troodon can't be faster than omni as that'd be ridiculous
Dilo is faster than omni

Troodon needs to time its pounces appropriately with its pack in order to take advantage of it
Dilo literally just spambites then spamlaughs

Troodon got balanced one way then Dilo decided "nah those rules don't apply to me I'm better Troodon" and just got all of that and more

[thin mantle]

I actually don't understand what went wrong other than "it's dilo"

Like typically venom in gameplay for games like this should compensate for shortcomings elsewhere in a creatures capability

But dilo even outside of venom is like....a really competent animal

So what is venom a crutch for

Because as far as it seems we just gave a large juvi rex neurotoxin

[dusky surge]

The main downsides dilo has are

• Terrible defense (which is immediately dealt with by exceptional speed)
• No resistances to anything (but omni struggles with this too)
• Low agility (again, high speed)
• Low swim speed (very situational downside)

[thin mantle]

Well and the vast majority of the roster lacks resistances that's baseline

[dusky surge]

More like they gave sub carno neurotoxin

[thin mantle]

Yeah I don't get it

[dusky surge]

Similar vulnerability to bleed, similar speed, similar weight, better biteforce actually iirc

[thin mantle]

It does have better bite for it's size yes

[dusky surge]

If it had weak bites that'd honestly be a fine downside

Considering it's "death by a thousand invisible cuts" playstyle, and the fact it's venomous

Would make it even more terrified of brawls

Which is fine, it should be skittish

The issue of "oh but how will it deal with larger animals like teno" is resolved by
A: Try harder
B: Don't

[thin mantle]

Yeah why would it deal with large animals

They're not even threats

[dusky surge]

i would not be upset if it had a worse bite than omni tbh

it literally does not need a powerful bite becuse that's not what it was built for

[thin mantle]

Omni's bite is also one of the best in the game already

So that makes sense

Like omni has the most favorable bite force to size ratio of any animal

[dusky surge]

Frankly, a nerf of biteforce to 50-70 range would def make the animal more fair

85 was such a bizarrely high number for an animal which is designed not to be in your face ever

[thin mantle]

Despite also being fast and relatively tanky ironically

[dusky surge]

It should be TERRIFIED of direct line of sight confrontation

[thin mantle]

And it's not like anything can see it at night regardless

[dusky surge]

It also bites really fast already

Legit could reduce it to 55 and it'd still be balanced

[thin mantle]

Yeah it has near cerato tier bite rate

might actually be better I don't remember

[dusky surge]

Dilo would be fine if it didn't seem to be built as a viable animal without the venom, and then thrown an insanely powerful venom on top of it

Legit, take away the venom from dilo, and it's def the most dull animal, but it's also still viable

[thin mantle]

Its a more effective hunter than sub carno whilst having way higher bleed

Without venom

[dusky surge]

Either tune down the venom or make dilo lack somewhere to compensate

[thin mantle]

regardless venom needs to be tuned down

[dusky surge]

Biteforce would make the most sense, as it's evolved to focus more on venom application than chomping prey

[thin mantle]

Like it's...just again it basically turns off your effective gameplay for its whole duration

[fading zodiac]

Yeah that's what i was thinking

In comparison,troodon Venom Is a joke

Dont get me wrong,i like the idea that It needs a coordinated pack to work,but seeing the overall Better Venomous Dino that Is dilo,i dont see why a player should choose troodon,if not for pure love for the species or out of curiosity

And,in my experience,usually the new players get bored and drops the troodon,leaving the server with 2/3 troodon alive in all the server

Destroying his mechanic,leaving It to scavenge and unable to Hunt properly

[vagrant plover]

agree with you. Why does the dilo that weighs 10x as much have a better venom?
and then Dilos have the venom immediately and Troodon have to wait. Troodon is supposed to be a glass cannon, but he's just glass as he is now

[sharp patrol]

Also doesn't help That pouncing is absolutely god awful rn making troodon worse

[vagrant plover]

Everything that's smaller than a teno, you can hardly hit it

[dusky surge]

@faint phoenix that's how pachy's stun on carno used to work (you had to charge it to full). It was broken as hell and unfair to face against, and it will make it a nightmare for teno and cera to deal with it

Also, funnily enough, pachy can't even charge its ram for that long, you can only hold it for like, 2 seconds lmao

[shadow vortex]

#balance-feedback message why dryo shouldn’t be able to facetank it though… They almost the same weight, herrera can one shot dryo if jumps from a mid height, and dryo has stiff animations. It can’t defend otherwise, and herrera isn’t supposed to fight on land

The only patch they made dryo viable again against the same tier animals and people want to nerf it by significantly buffing others so it’s again just a running away animal, woah

[slim dragon]

unsurprising

[halcyon elk]

@azure pebble my only complaint is Herrera health increase. Let dryo be able to actually fight

[tall bronze]

My first thought was "why is the ambushing thing trying to facetank something" 😮

[azure pebble]

I do agree, dryo should be able to fight, but herrara is pretty weak, and dies in one hit from a baby stego

[slim dragon]

Why wouldn't it ?

[halcyon elk]

I mean it is kind its thing to be dropping from above and murdering whatever is beneath it. Not necessarily being a grounded attacker

[azure pebble]

True, but I think it needs just a little more health. Not too much

[shadow vortex]

Yep, I agree to that other buffs will come in handy, like stamina regen or more diet options, decreased hunger and water drain, but not this…

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message
who tf upvoted this i can't even fully understand it

its incomprehensible

[scarlet onyx]

#balance-feedback message this mans ripped his period and enter key out his board and said good riddance

[halcyon elk]

@stuck obsidian no offense, but I cannot understand a word you said.

I suggest using punctuation for when you are typing, rather than a huge run off sentence.

Also btw they're working on fixes. Give it a few days or so

[dusky surge]

who's giving me the eyebrow raised lol

what does that even mean

[slim dragon]

What I understood is that they complain roughly about the same things as everyone else, plus they hate stegos for no particular reason

[steep warren]

@dusky surge this recent patch has proven that players will obviously prioritise the new Dino's, even if it means everyone starves or is forced to canni: The difference is, at least you can vaguely defend against a dilo and Def a Herrera. If a force such as the rex drops on its own, without trike as a player counter, it'd be rexes for the foreseeable, trust me. Trike needs to release alongside to balance numbers

[dusky surge]

eh?

what are you even talking about with rex

did i say something pertaining to rex

legit im sorry but idk what we're talking about rn

[slim dragon]

Just trust him

[dusky surge]

@sick bramble that's already planned

they've actually confirmed they'll be using the same mechanic on hypsi

[sick bramble]

Ah thats nice

I think it will add some depht to hypsi since its kind of boring rn

[dusky surge]

i think hypsi should be more arboreal than herrera tbh

[sick bramble]

yeaa they could be because then we have a carnivore up the trees and a herbivore they could hunt up there too so wouldnt be that bad

[balmy briar]

@dusky surge btw i dont think Dilo's hallucinations should deal hp dmg to begin with, instead it should be stamina damage imho. This way it can exhaust its prey, disorientate it, and can use the clones as cover to get bites in. Anyone who use Dilo 3x has a raw idea of how the clones work, and where they come from. Usually behind the target, i use this knowlegde to run my "chaser" into the clones for example.

But losing LOS is so easy that after that your drinking cocktails and just sending them every 30 sec

[dusky surge]

stamina damage sounds way worse, and i would much rather damage

[balmy briar]

no, i would opt for stam

so it cannot "brawl", and u can still alt bite

[dusky surge]

i would rather fight against flat damage than stam damage in that scenario

[balmy briar]

clones has another issue to it. If you dodge one, and dont get hit, and bite the clone in its tail to dispell it, you take dmg still

stam damage would ofc be different then hp dmg

value's would differ for example

instead of 20% of your hp, you lose like 10% stam? idk

[dusky surge]

how does that work

venom doesn't work on percentiles

[balmy briar]

u get hit by a clone and it takes 10% of your stam

[small geyser]

Ello Nicky

[balmy briar]

well, just a value of 10 then, if stamina value is 100 at max

hi goji

[dusky surge]

i'd literally rather take the damage

[balmy briar]

i'd literally rather take the stamina, because its too much damage from a clone

i die from non-existing hallucinations

[dusky surge]

it deals as much damage as a dilo bite

which is why i suggested the bite be nerfed

[balmy briar]

in terms of what makes sense is , being exhausted from the trip ( stam dmg) vs randomly dying on the spot (hp dmg)

i'd say the first one ( stam dmg) makes more sense

[dusky surge]

the hallucinations are visual representations of the venom attacking your body

according to Dondi

is it realistic? no. who cares

[balmy briar]

even then its overtuned, and the clones should deal like 10% of the dilos bite attack then, not a full bite, the hell

if thats what he is going with

[dusky surge]

10% would be pathetic lol

[balmy briar]

so you die slowly to poison

instead of , here 3 clones , kage bunshin no jutsu

ded, its silly

am i playing the isle or naruto

[dusky surge]

the isle

[balmy briar]

wrong, its the idle these days xD with stam regen , but thats another joke

[dusky surge]

the same game which has robo-quetz

and EMP spino

and camouflage rex

and 50+m tall gorilla lizard man

and a sentient dino-making AI

[latent bay]

The what

[dusky surge]

the replicator

[latent bay]

The huh

[dusky surge]

it's a sentient AI that's worshipped as a God by a bunch of 8 foot tall savage "humans" also created by said AI which is responsible for practically all life on the island

and it's dilo's venom that draws the line on realism

[latent bay]

That's

Really strange

[dusky surge]

yes

[latent bay]

Dilo's venom is significantly less screwed up than that lore you just said to me how is that what breaks realism

[dusky surge]

that's exactly what I'm saying

[latent bay]

God forbid we have interesting (horrifically overpowered though) gameplay mechanics

[dusky surge]

it's a bizarre argument to say "dilo's venom is unrealistic" when the entire game proudly waves sci-fi on its flag

yes, fake dilos doing damage to you makes no sense

[latent bay]

Sentient super AI featuring creation powers worshipped as a god by what it creates is borderline just fiction tbh

One step away from hexapodal fire breathers ruling the isle

[stark knoll]

The "fi" in sci-fi is short for fiction

[dusky surge]

lmao

but yea, the game has never once wanted to be a realistic dino sim

[latent bay]

I know, I'm no fool, I was trying to do a funny you see

Should've said fantasy though

[halcyon elk]

Who gonna tell him about the matriarch

[latent bay]

I already know that exists, just i didn't know if it was canon or not

[halcyon elk]

It is until it isnt

[latent bay]

What is that supposed to mean

[halcyon elk]

It is canon until proved otherwise.

[latent bay]

Fair enough

What stops it from being canon and what stops it from being non-canon

[balmy briar]

i only said it made more sense, so if you quote me do it correctly good sir

[dusky surge]

okay so

[balmy briar]

something making sense =/= realism

[dusky surge]

nothing in this game makes sense

it does whatever the hell it damn pleases when it wants to

[balmy briar]

?

[dusky surge]

EMP spino that can change the weather don't make sense no matter how many times you look at it

[latent bay]

Tbf that's not rlly the best design philosophy considering JP velociraptor is a design we've unfortunately been cursed with

[balmy briar]

we getting a EMP spino ? , hm must have missed something then

[latent bay]

Same with JP galli (besides its head its the same animal)

And JP Troodon

And JP rex (somewhat)

[halcyon elk]

Dondi's word.

[latent bay]

Neuro spino

[balmy briar]

but.. these are hypo things no?

[latent bay]

Neuro spino will be able to mess with the weather last I heard

[dusky surge]

it had a model in legacy

[balmy briar]

legacy = mods

[dusky surge]

nope, hypers are the 20 ton gigabeasts

[halcyon elk]

There's three strains, hyperendocrine, the neurotenic, and tissoplastic.

[dusky surge]

that's not a mod that's official

[balmy briar]

its a mod bro

[dusky surge]

it's official

[balmy briar]

u can alter your files

[dusky surge]

it's official

[balmy briar]

to make it look different, ive seen acro's with their head in their hands

[dusky surge]

it's an official creature i will say it as many times as i need

[latent bay]

Neuro spino as a mod is a mod but they source the model directly from files found pre-existing in the game

[dusky surge]

it is official

[latent bay]

It has been this way since 2017

[balmy briar]

its not a creature u can play on legacy

[dusky surge]

it is not like the modded creatures

[dusky surge]

it LITERALLY is

[balmy briar]

Spino does not look like that

[dusky surge]

because that's a neuro spino

[balmy briar]

its appearance is modded, and thats a regular spino

i rest my case

[stark knoll]

That's the neuro spino model

[halcyon elk]

Yea, but the MODEL THEYRE USING IS FROM THE GAME FILES.

[latent bay]

It straight up is, it's in the code. Neuro spino DOES exist and it's statistically unique from a regular Spinosaurus

That is the equivalent of saying hypos are just mods and not real because a regular player cannot access it

Do you understand what you are saying and do you process what we see my good gamer

[dusky surge]

hyperendocrin carnotaurus (this thing) is literally in the files for EVRIMA

[halcyon elk]

Also when these guys are in the game. You realize this wasn't made to be realistic.

[balmy briar]

oh ok, but that still doesnt make argument on its own, its litterally scientific creatures that are "special" the way i see it, like the carno u just showed

i get that much

[stark knoll]

I'm not sure how scientific an animal controlling weather is

[dusky surge]

it's a 10 ton carno that's effectively immune to damage

it stands taller than anything on the roster atm

[balmy briar]

i mean to say that, its not the normal spino who can do this, make a hypo dilo and im fine if it can breakdance upside down?

[dusky surge]

it dwarfs even stego

[latent bay]

The "regular" dinosaurs follow the exact same design philosophy as hypos, neuros and Tissos, just to a reduced extent, realism is taken into account but biologic plausibility isn't, neither is accuracy

[balmy briar]

yeah, the raptor rlly reflects that xD (ok that one was below thebelt)

[stark knoll]

I don't believe that "venom that makes you believe you're being swarmed by predators" is nearly as far fetched as "controls weather and has EMPs"

[dusky surge]

the same creature that controls weather and has EMPs also can drink living dinosaurs like a juicebox

"making sense" is a nonfactor

[latent bay]

Don't forget it's neural spines are completely exposed and it lacks eyes entirely

[balmy briar]

alr, well then just enjoy playing dilo and hitting something in the head 1x and sitting 20 meters up ahead doing your laugh spam and feeling like a hot shot, my original point was that stam dmg made more sense to me, on more then a realism level, also a gameplay balance level.

[dusky surge]

this is official

[balmy briar]

idc about all that lore stuff, else i would be better informed going into this

[halcyon elk]

And we aren't even getting into the eyeless, the matriarch, or...oh wait echidna was just posted nvm on that one.

[dusky surge]

this thing can probably just kill you by thinking about it, screw the venom

[latent bay]

Just like

Have dilo as a whole do less damage and make venom last less long. Simple as fix tbh

[daring spindle]

Lore

[latent bay]

Isles of Lore

[balmy briar]

im a dino fan, but not a isle nerd, so im out of my juristiction here, sorry.

[latent bay]

I doubt anyone here would play the isle if they weren't dino needs tbf

[balmy briar]

i bet most players are just that, simple dino fans, curious to see where it goes when things get released that break their immersion in a dino sim

[daring spindle]

This sums it up well (I’m also a Dino fan)

[balmy briar]

cuz thats what this game's potential is. a dino sim. the rest is just over the top ambition

[daring spindle]

No

[balmy briar]

aight have a good one, i need to hunt again just came to chat while idle and full and .. well doing nothing bassicly

[daring spindle]

But that isn’t balance anymore

[stark knoll]

Kinda ironic to say this game will peak as only a dino sim then complain there's nothing to do

[latent bay]

Literally yes

People (such as myself for the most part lmao) got into this game by watching youtubers n' stuff expecting dinosaurs and for the most part, only dinosaurs. Hypo dinosaurs are the line for a lot of people and once more people hear about the strain lords I'm confident people will begin questioning their sanity

[balmy briar]

i never complained about there being nothing to do, i infact believe the people who say that , are just not true dino fans wishing to experience a life cycle for themselfs

[latent bay]

I couldn't give a damn as long as suchomimus is viable though

[balmy briar]

ofc ur gonna walk, etc, bro what u expect this aint ark

there is plenty to do, i just like to chill and be lazy 🙂

and i need to keep a eye on this young blood

[latent bay]

Tbf tho there are a lot of things irl animals do beyond simply walking to their next meal

[balmy briar]

yeah like, not dying

[latent bay]

More to it than that

[balmy briar]

plenty probably depending on what specie, i am not bored so

i love this game, if possible idbe in it 24/7 , but got more to do

[latent bay]

Playing and just... doing things for the sake of doing things is something almost all vertebrates of any age do

Zoochosis (if I spelt that right) is a real phenomenon where animals of all intelligences and sizes can go legitimately insane if they don't have enough enrichment in captivity

[balmy briar]

tho, there are 100% downtimes. Where my strategy is litterally tuck myself away and grow, and yes i will open youtube or w/e fancies my intrest at that point

or a long heal session

def, guilty of alt tabin

[latent bay]

Personally I'd like to see more environmental interactivity like tree scratching which is teased in like 7 concept arts or playing with bones or, with sparring upcoming with Diablo, playing with eachother

[balmy briar]

wich is why i'd like if Holding down H wouldnt instantly start a cd timer

so if someone finds me, at least il be decoration and my unresponsiveness makesa little sense immersion wise

(for them ofc)

finding a sleeping carno in a cave

[stark knoll]

Scratching, dust/mud bathing, basking and cooling, random play behaviors for juvies

[balmy briar]

tippy toeing back out ;.;, yes please

[latent bay]

Not even for just juvies, adults do it too

Perhaps random idles and stuff would be more playful in juveniles, but adult animals play too

Hell desert elephant adults hold almost ritual-esc ceremonies when baby elephants are born

[stark knoll]

It doesn't have to just be new idle animations, interactive objects would be fantastic

[latent bay]

That's my point, just literally abything

I wsnt to pick up a stick as a baby carno and baseball bat a ptero corpse with it

[tropic horizon]

What is that

[dusky surge]

echidna

[tropic horizon]

Interesting

[frail bobcat]

omg, its the percy jackson monster mother

[tropic horizon]

Looks vaguely like the crawler in the annihilation movie

Well not entirely but that’s the only thing that comes to mind

[cobalt dagger]

I've been thinking, about how we could balance dilo, and playing it too, and one thing I've really been enjoying is it's speed.

I like the speed and I like how fragile it is, I like having to think before I fight and be flexible with fighting or fleeing. I like how it's mechanic encourages you to try and GET IT before it can venom you, it makes it exciting to run away from something when it doesn't give up the chase as easily.
Basically, I'm hoping we can keep it's speed, and keep it's fragility.

I think it bleeding easily is part of it being fragile and should also stay, since running + bleeding makes you bleed faster so it's pretty effective I think

Since, currently, I don't know how well it fairs against GROUPS of raptors in a fight, except to run away from them. Granted raptor pounce not working from the front or back still makes it pretty hard for the raptors.

I have also been thinking, I do think the venom needs to be nerfed, needs to not last as long, but I would like it to still do damage - I know the hallucinations are just hallucinations, but I like to imagine they're symbolic of the venom actually damaging the creature in some way, like real venom does.

I think reducing their damage or reducing the amount of clones you get or reducing the timer of the venom or reducing all three could be good though, I just would like it if venom still does some damage, even if it isn't much

I've been playing a lot of solo dilo though

It gets more op in groups... Maybe the group limit should go back to being lower - Except, I like having my babies and my partner in my group when I nest, but I suppose deino has to suffer that issue too.

[hollow canyon]

^

[odd pebble]

What is everybody's opinion on the wounded status effect?

[cosmic pelican]

Lets me metagame my health again. 10/10 mechanic

[sharp patrol]

Venom shouldn't be nerfed w clones not doing damage, just reduce the time it's applied to like 2 minutes forcing the dilo to have to reapply so it's not a sit back and spam hallucinations, also make it so sleeping or resting makes it go away faster

Could also use a bf nerf to 70

[balmy briar]

red 0-30 , orange 30-50 , yellow 50-80 , blue 80-100 (hp values vs color of your line in the tab menu

[cosmic pelican]

I knew that, but ty

I know every single stupid lil number that you can possible know

yeah, im that dedicated

[balmy briar]

how many seconds can you pounce a bucking teno before falling off 👀

[cosmic pelican]

around 10 seconds iirc

[balmy briar]

16 seconds

[cosmic pelican]

unless bucking is weight dependant again

[cosmic pelican]

alr you got me :p

[shadow vortex]

It is

[balmy briar]

xD

i run tests also, spreadsheets of data i was quickly opening to throw questions at u, u didnt stand a chance , its okay

[cosmic pelican]

well i guess its time to redo every test and matchup again🤓

[cosmic pelican]

A fellow isle nerd!👋

[balmy briar]

just raptor nerd rlly, i wanna know data so i can see if they syncronise with attack strategys

what does what dmg how long etc etc

[sharp patrol]

How much damage does troodon pounce do

[cosmic pelican]

Stage 0-1 25, stage 2 50, stage 3 75

[sharp patrol]

Pog

[peak seal]

Bucking is weight dependent now?

[tall bronze]

Not sure if it's weight based, but it's different per species now. Dilo can knock of Omni in 7 seconds whereas Stego takes long I think. you'd think it'd be the opposite

[peak seal]

Yeah I know right

It's weird, good thing some people don't realize bucking is a thing or still think bucking is broken

[lament hollow]

How do you buck?

Isn't it hold E?

[dusky surge]

yes

[lament hollow]

Thanks!

[grizzled anchor]

@mighty comet encouraging mixpacking like that would actually kill the game imo. As someone who plays solo most of the time encountering ANY kind of mixpacking group completely ruins my fun.
I guess you never met someone from your own species who then kills you to feed their mixpacking group.
I would encourage the herbivores all being able to group but balancing that in terms of group size would be very difficult aswell.

[fallow blaze]

why do so many of you want endless raptors in the game?

• we're going to get a new Utah
• we have Troodon
• we will get Austro
  = big
  small and poisonous
  and long jumps

then why do we still need Microraptor and
Deinonychus <- mentioned earlier
There won't be such big differences anymore between them...
why 5 raptors? 😄 thats boring
Leave it at the top 3.
Then other possibly MORE IMPORTANT dinosaurs will be given preference.

[dusky surge]

long jumps?

[fallow blaze]

Austro has it in his concept

[dusky surge]

it's more than just long jumps lol

hell, we don't even know if it has pounce

[fallow blaze]

Oh yea
I remember me wrong lol
Its more a "high" jump "attack" <- like he use is feet
Sry for that "long".
I don't want to interpret any more than that haha

[calm ibex]

you forgot velo too

[fallow blaze]

Is it playable?🤔

[dusky surge]

yes

[fallow blaze]

Well
Doesn't matter which ability all of those have.
I don't think that we need that much raptors.
Well
I don't see how much of a contribution they make to the gameplay.

[fallow blaze]

That tiny thing from lagecy is playable?
When did that confirmed?

[dusky surge]

yes

it got confirmed the moment EVRIMA's roster was revealed

[fallow blaze]

I missed that date
But the roster can be changed at any time. That the devs said all over the time

But thank you
For that Feedback 👍

maybe they'll make velo bigger. just like they made troodon smaller.

but just hypothetically:
The velo remains as small as in Lagecy
and then the microraptor comes into play
= then you have 3 raptors of almost the same size.
that doesn't make much sense.
Except maybe for unofficials who only want to play with low tiers🤷‍♂️

[dusky surge]

i dont understand what's wrong with velo

[fallow blaze]

I'm just philosophizing. evrima is not realistic.
perhaps earlier smaller dinosaurs are becoming larger. who knows.

same question back. What would be right about having 3x the same species (with microraptor) in the same size?

Something like this can also be solved using skins.
which has already been mentioned as a possibility
2 years ago.
again: I don't hate velo or microraptor

They are just very similiar

[dusky surge]

microraptor isn't confirmed

and likely isn't coming at all

[sharp patrol]

@chilly totem Omni should not be faster than carno, dilo yes but not carno

Nor Galli

The whole point of carno is it's a meat missile, goes real fast in a semi straight line and Galli takes a while to get to top speed

Omni is very agile with its current turn radius and capabilities, arguably dilo and Omni speed should be switched and dilo biteforce should be nerfed 15 damage as well as reducing venom duration

[golden coral]

I don't know, omni could do with being slow depending on what it's meant to hunt, it doesn't need speed in the same way

Dilo meanwhile seem to be more of a hit/run (well, if venom didnt last as long at least) so speed is more useful there

[sharp patrol]

True but switching their speeds isn't a huge deal, Omni is still fast it's just slightly slower than dilo

[wild cove]

Nah, having "slow omni" is a bad idea because its squishy. It doesn't take much to kill an omni, so it needs to be able to at least run away. Arguably that's been the long standing issue of the Isle is its too slow to run away from Carnos, so you end up with 20 omnis just sitting on a rock being scavengers because 2-3 carnos will wreck an entire pack

[golden coral]

Running away and evading can be done with agility instead of raw speed. And carno being the designated small game hunter being a terror to omni makes sense, and you can still juke the carno even if you can't outrun it. But there's more matchups than that one, and if omni is to be a punch up predator with the pounce to pin and all, it does not need speed since most of those big targets are liable to be quite slow (as we can see with stego).

Compared to dilo, omni relies less on outright speed and more on agility since it uses pounce and doesn't "trade" in quite the same way that running in for a bite like dilo will do.

[wild cove]

Dilo also doesn't use stam as its primary resource for its primary combat mechanic. Omni needs stam for running, jumping, and attacking. An omni without stam is a dead raptor, and with the current stam nerfs, pounce nerfs, and barely anywhere it can jump to, it really does need that speed and agility both.

Of course it doesn't need to be faster than Carno though

Or Galli

But it doesn't need to be "slow" either

[golden coral]

Stamina and speed are not the same things though, sure omni uses more stamina than dilo, but that's not really relevant to which of them need speed more or should be faster

[wild cove]

Isn't Dilo heavier than Omni?

By quite a bit, I think

[golden coral]

700 kg, to 450 for omni, unless stats have changed, so yes

Which I guess is part of why omni is way more agile than dilo is

[wild cove]

Means that Dilo also has more health than Omni

So it has more health, more speed, hallucinations that limit visibility + do damage

[golden coral]

Though it apparently bleeds like a carno, or close to it

[wild cove]

And not a lot of places that it can jump onto that Dilo can't reach on Gateway

Oh yeah, Dilo bleed is crazy too

I could get a tail nip and lose like 30% blood pool

[golden coral]

On both sides, it does good bleed, or can stack it due to bite speed, but also loses blood very fast

[wild cove]

Dilo does stupidly good bleed last I checked. Its only real disadvantages over Omni is it can't jump (mostly irrelevant cuz Gateway doesn't have a lot of structures to jump on anyway anywhere that matters) and its footsteps as adult are stupidly loud for some reason

[golden coral]

Dilo may be a bit overtuned, the venom especially, but we'll see how the balance ends up, I'm sure things will change

[wild cove]

Its very overtuned in its current state. Here's to hoping they fix it

[cosmic pelican]

dilo has no extra bleed modifiers, unlike carno. its just small=small bloodpool

[golden coral]

So noted.

[foggy elm]

how

[tropic horizon]

Its all because deino cant 1v1 the op stego giys1!1!111111 It needs a nberf bafdly1!111!!

[foggy elm]

so many people say "this game is terrible fix the game devs1111!!1" but never say how they should "fix" the game

[tropic horizon]

yeah exactly

and then the ones who do propose solutions get drowned out by the swarm of "buff my favorite animal so it beats the entire roster"

[foggy elm]

i agree the game should be better. like adding mutations could help with finding things to do.

[foggy elm]

"carno cant instacharge a cerato anymore?!111!? stupid devs need to fix the game!1211111"

[tropic horizon]

fun fact, it still can lol

[foggy elm]

nope, it cant. tested it with a friend. thank god they finally fixed that

[tropic horizon]

well I sometimes have knocked em down instantly so idk anymore, watched vids that showed consistent knockdown ranges but also sometimes I've insta knocked things down

[foggy elm]

yea it seems to be inconsistant. like its imposible to knock down a utah anymore from my testing. but cerato was possible to knock down if you charged from a far distance

[cosmic pelican]

You can still instantly knock down anything if you activate your charge in the last possible second. Which is probably unintended

[shadow vortex]

3 programmers seem not enough to sort out this mess

[foggy elm]

theres more than 3

[dusky surge]

what's with this new thing where people start every feedback with "issue:"

[shadow vortex]

Welp I'd doubt there's much more because the whole group of devs consists only of ~20 people?

[foggy elm]

theres more devs that arent on the discord. so we can assume theres more programmers

[shadow vortex]

Welp then there are programmers who can't sort out this mess, at least quickly

[shadow vortex]

@latent lotus agreed. Just watched this some time ago, 1:30 https://youtu.be/imfZtfUitDI?t=90 ... Real ouch :p

[latent lotus]

i totally agree to that on teno and cera but not on utah nd pachy

[shadow vortex]

Wdym by utah and pachy? xd

[latent lotus]

utah and pachy? the dinos

[tropic horizon]

@faint swallow bro really wants the weakest herbivore to be nerfed even more

[shadow vortex]

Ah you mean the time needed to knock down little creatures such as utah and pachy? Yeh, I agree then

[dusky surge]

bro looked at the slowest small tier and said "slower"

[latent lotus]

ye that

[pseudo hatch]

is it better to tap bounce or stay in pounce as long as you can with omniraptor?

[cosmic pelican]

If the prey still has lots of stamina wear it down with bites/short pounces to minimize stamina lost to bucking. After it gets exhausted go in for longer pounces.

[pseudo hatch]

do i lose less stamina per second on pounces as i have lower stamina?

[cosmic pelican]

Youll lose the same % of stam no matter what

If they prey bucks, that is

[pseudo hatch]

whats bucking?

[cosmic pelican]

If you pounce someone they can buck, bucking drains the pouncers stamina heavily, but costs stam for the prey as well

If they dont buck you can stay latched on for around 30seconds

[pseudo hatch]

i see thank you

[cosmic pelican]

Np ^^

[pseudo hatch]

how come short punces wear down prey's stamina?

im new to the game and dont know many mechanic so thats why im asking

[cosmic pelican]

If they buck they lose around 2%stamina per second

You can buck by holding E while being poznced

[cosmic pelican]

All good, weve all been there

[pseudo hatch]

but if i just do tap pounce i lose stamina and he doesnt have to buck

[cosmic pelican]

Dont tap pounce, you have to hold it for at least a second to do any bleed

[pseudo hatch]

aah okay

[cosmic pelican]

Bucking has a short delay so you still shouldnt lose much stamina

[pseudo hatch]

as far as i understood raptor is really excels in packs i feel like 1v1 its hard to play and too risky 😦

[cosmic pelican]

Dont engage in 1v1s if the opponent is bigger than you, especially if youre less experienced

Pounce isnt as effective in a 1v1 since youll lose a lot of stamina and put yourself at risk of getting ran down

If you do try a 1v1 youre better off brawling and doing bites only

[pseudo hatch]

yeah that makes sense, im not 1v1'in anyone who is bigger than me especially dilos for some time untill i become better

do you have advices on how to deal with dilo? like 2 raptors vs 1 or 3 raport vs 1 dilo

i've never tried to pounce a dilo since its already so hard to do dilo is so mobile and turns well

[dusky surge]

dilo actually has a terrible turn radius for its size

[cosmic pelican]

Try to bait its alt attacks so your teammate can go in for a pounce, dilo bleeds out VERY fast

If you outnumber it try to swarm and overwhelm it with bites/pounces

[dusky surge]

a single full pounce will essentially put it in the red if it tries to keep mobile (which it will forced to do because it's terrible while standing still in a brawl)

[cosmic pelican]

Even 1 omni can deal significant damage in a 1v1, if you manage to get a pounce in an ambush its pretty much already over for the dilo

[pseudo hatch]

so basically, if not ambushed bait his attacks setup for your friend, or land pounce and stay there as long as you can

[cosmic pelican]

Pretty much yes, if you pounce leave some stam for yourslef so you can still run away and either z walk or go far and sit down

1 pounce and some bites will easily kill the dilo if it keeps moving

[pseudo hatch]

thank you this was much needed i understand far better now

[cosmic pelican]

Np ^^

[cobalt dagger]

I did a 1 v 1 raptor vs dilo with a friend, and dilo's buck is really effective for some reason. But you mean, if you hold on in spite of the bucking, that you'll apply a lot of bleed?

[tropic horizon]

It needs to be even free-er calories!

[outer oak]

e

[balmy briar]

@mossy holly #balance-feedback message we had something, but it got nerfed to smithereens. Raptor

3 raptors can take down 1 stego, tho a herd is just a herd, and too strong if they play it right

Dilo can aswell, a few especially

[void grail]

stegos are slow as balls anyway just avoid them. having an "OP" dinosaur like the stego promotes teamwork as well and gives victors a larger sense of accomplishment, and of course a lifetimes supply of food.

[sterile bone]

@mossy holly there is no point since they are planning on removing stego from the pool in the future.

[stark knoll]

It'll still be available on unofficials

[sterile bone]

Yea

[dusky surge]

@onyx lichen vomiting blood is legit really cool as an idea for Troodon

[onyx lichen]

Wasn't my Idea, Player0 suggested it actually and I didn't like the idea at first but after some thought I liked it and thought it worked better than my original idea

[dawn falcon]

Just sprinkle a little bit of food outside of migration zones in their preferred areas and we’re good.
I love the idea of migrations, I just think they should be high risk high reward and not 100% required

[tropic horizon]

Teno is genuinely strong again and I couldn’t be happier (:

Finally reduced its attack costs

[dusky surge]

did they? how much they cost?

i did assume the stam changes were an accident

[cosmic pelican]

Slam 3%, kick 2%

[dusky surge]

oh, back to as it was

[cosmic pelican]

Yep

[dusky surge]

okay so teno is basically a top-tier herbi now lol

its been too long

[cosmic pelican]

Cant wait till people realize and flood balance feedback with "NERF TENO its op!1!11!1!"

[dusky surge]

herbi that can defend itself

[cosmic pelican]

Imagine, so dumb

[grizzled anchor]

@ruby shuttle I think its a bug currently in the game that you just vomit randomly without any reason. I'm not sure your second vomitting is connected to your first since I just vomitted quite often without any reason to it and even starved thanks to that.

[barren estuary]

Definitely a bug. I've had it happen out of nowhere without having vomited before it

[grizzled anchor]

Yeah same its a really annoying bug too with the food scarcity you're likely to just starve because of that bug :/ I hope it gets fixed soon but theres alot of things to fix currently so I dont think it will get prioritized

[barren estuary]

It really is awful.. Especially on top of everything else

[grizzled anchor]

I think the game is in its worst state since Ive started playing and Im playing for quite a while now... I also have no clue what they're currently doing because theres 0 information from the devs except the daily "AI fixes" which don't really change anything as far as Ive seen 🤔

[barren estuary]

Honestly, it really has been the worst time to play Isle. Even the older versions of Evrima were smoother with less issues. I just hope the devs do pull through and sort it out. Fix the server issues, fix the AI and then work on whatever bugs are next

[grizzled anchor]

I sure hope so too. The state of the game haven't been the most popular anyway since the launch of gateway now with all those problems piling up it's not really helping them... and imo they're being waaaay to quiet about the things they're doing rn. A simple we're working on that bug right now or whatever would shut so many people up who're spamming the feedback channels 😄

[barren estuary]

I completely agree. I would love it if they actually communicated that they are working on bugs and actually are aware of them. Or even read the bug reports

[grizzled anchor]

Yeah their silence are hurting them more than they realize I think. And I would understand if half the playerbase would drop the game in the near future if things don't change.
Im hoping for the best though

[barren estuary]

I absolutely agree. I hope it gets better somewhat soon and not months from now

[grizzled anchor]

I think its unlikely if we're looking at everything they're doing since gateway hordetesting started but I guess hope dies last.

[alpine snow]

It's attack costs got reduced? Is this like a new thing? Cause I swear it was crap just a few days ago

[cosmic pelican]

yeah 2 days ago to be exact

[alpine snow]

Ohh I was unaware. I grew one on gateway, felt the Stam costs, then abandoned it cause it was god awful lmao

[cosmic pelican]

these are the new values

the claw attack was unchanged, still costs 2%

teno can also stop carnos charge with its tailslam/kick again

[alpine snow]

OH FR? I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SAY CARNO AND CERA EAT IT UP

Very happy about that then cause when they gave Carno charge priority over teno slam it completely shifted the 50/50 to 70/30

[halcyon elk]

Cera on bodies can also eat carno's charge.

Or rather not get knocked down

[alpine snow]

Well, that doesn't necessarily help it in engagements but that's nice for ambushes

[halcyon elk]

It helps a lot when you are taking a body from a carno.

[alpine snow]

You can avoid charged with baits and make carno hit your tail to avoid getting knocked over (typically. Game lag makes this not 100%)

Well, when a Cera is taking a body off of carno it should attempt to ambush with a charge bite or pull the carno off and start baiting it to get behind it

At no point should the Cera allow carno to get a charge off especially anywhere not the tail

[halcyon elk]

Well what I mean is that cera can actually take a charge and not fall down when it has body protection

[alpine snow]

Yeah, fair. I think fighting carno will feel nicer though when I can run in a straight line and not get teleported back...

(My saving grace is how many carno players don't have manual alt attack on lmao)

[halcyon elk]

I honestly like that cera can now effectively fight carnos on corpses

[alpine snow]

Well, again, that buff is nice but this was completely possible before. (Also, the damage reduction was nerfed to 10% max apparently so the DR doesn't really help too much)

[tropic horizon]

Only 10 percent damage resistance? That’s pretty crap all things considered

[latent bay]

I was just about to start overhyping myself about cera maybe being good now VS carno

Seems like i need to lack my bags again ig

[dawn falcon]

Here we go

Devs playtesting their game

[alpine snow]

Cera is still good. Personal experience is a terrible tool for proof, but I have had a lot of luck with Cera (aside from getting grabbed by deinos). Only died to one carno since Gateway.

Cera can't beat Carno in a trade or tank, so you need to rely on the higher agility. Also, always punish an alt attack with a quick bite

Scariest thing is getting ambushed by a carno. That's when you're screwed and just gotta hope you can outstam it and keep doing circles.

[latent bay]

What does agility matter when Carnotaurus has more stamina than you do

[dawn falcon]

Because you can out turn it until it’s juiced

Assuming they don’t have the stamina diet

[alpine snow]

It means everything...if carno can't out-turn you, then you can get behind it, easily bait charges or bites, etc lol

Why can Omni survive (and fight in some cases) Dilo right now? Better agility (more specifically turn)

[latent bay]

Tbh that's a lot easier said than done, trying to turn quickly sends you into a quick turn which kills your momentum and then you judt get smashed by the carno

[dawn falcon]

Turning too quickly kills your momentum, yes. But it’s still possible to outturn without losing that momentum, that all comes down to muscle memory.

[alpine snow]

You're totally right. Cera, despite being a bruiser/brawler is in a state where high skill expression is extremely rewarding.

Also, "trying to turn quickly sends you into a quick turn which-" that's something only muscle memory will fix. You have to learn the extent which dinos can turn without sliding. Adrenaline and inexperience can cause this mistake often

[dawn falcon]

Bro we have the same braincells wtf

[alpine snow]

You're reading me like a book

[alpine snow]

XD

[dawn falcon]

Just learn what kills your momentum and what doesn’t. It’s easier to learn on deathmatch servers.

[latent bay]

That's

Honestly fair actually lol. My isle muscle memory has been screwed for a solid few months since I've been playing monster hunter a lot more than I should be recently

[alpine snow]

I play Overwatch and Baldurs Gate 3 😭. I'm just a sweat at everything i play...

Sweating on a dinosaur game? Dang right 🤓

[latent bay]

I've tried to get back into overwatch but I don't have Mauga thus I am not allowed to play one of the three roles (Blizzard should nerf him quickly)

[alpine snow]

Yeah, I'm a Roadhog main for tank and Lifeweaver for support. Mauga has not been fun.

Back to the topic of the Isle though: it also helps that so many players don't have the manual alt bite setting on do when you fight Carlos and get them to bite while still they go into this insanely long animation lmao

It's so easy to get bites and then run out before the carno can do anything cause they alt bite every 2 seconds (and waste stam)

[latent bay]

Carlos

That's my new name for Carnotaurus now

It is not meat bull any longer, it is Carlos the bull

But that's also fair

I may just have nukeataurus ptsd

[nova otter]

am I the only one who hates the new stun for a missed herrera pounce? feels like the old omni stun bet worse since most stuff you can hunt can run you down

[shadow vortex]

Wdym stun for a missed pounce? I just tried pouncing ground (lol) on a free admin server, saw no stun and could easily continue running afterwards

[hollow canyon]

someone confirm the damage reduction... well reduction

[nova otter]

I keep getting a stun. like when the omni use to have on a missed pounce for whatever reason

[nova otter]

you have to jump from high enough too

[shadow vortex]

Yep, I see now... Did they add this in this new patch? Didn't experience that before...

[nova otter]

idk, I need ask a server mod the character limit for the feedback sections. I want to type up something that is ideas for each carnivore but i dont know if they would let me post it due to how long it is, or if the devs would even see it.

[tribal quarry]

Make more diet options for carno

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message
"aswell as this the raptor weighs 450kg I think this is much too little especially since dillo weighs 700 which doesn’t make sense since in real life dillo is the one that weighs 400 and the Utah raptor weighs 1000kg+!!!!!!!!!!!!"

https://tenor.com/view/omw-to-spread-misinformation-all-over-the-internet-gif-26525511

irl dilo is just flat out a bigger animal than irl utah idk where these numbers are coming from lol

[dusky surge]

@mossy holly that's not how it works

[mossy holly]

location based damage is a thing

head body tail

[dusky surge]

yes, but headshot multipliers are dependent on the species being attacked, not the attack itself

[mossy holly]

tail doing the least and head doing the most

[dusky surge]

for instance, all creatures (besides pachy and stego) have a 1.5x damage multiplier to the head

pachy has 0.75x and stego has 2x

[mossy holly]

So how do we reduce teno kick damage without making it useless

[dusky surge]

so unless a teno is kicking a stego in the head, it will not do 2x damage

[mossy holly]

i've been playing alot over the last few days

cera/carno cannot fight a teno

not alone

[dusky surge]

you get more ceras/carnos

a solo cera/carno should have an exceptionally tough time killing a teno

[mossy holly]

Maybe. But teno should have to land the tail slams to kill them

Skill on both sides

Rn tenno can just sit there and kick whenever they get close, and they win by default

[dusky surge]

tailslams do less damage so you shouldn't have to do that

[mossy holly]

Knockdown

a full grown tenno can knock down both cera and carno

[dusky surge]

not true

[mossy holly]

very true

[dusky surge]

teno can't knockdown an adult carno

[mossy holly]

yes they can

[dusky surge]

it can stagger them

but it cannot knock them down

[mossy holly]

Reguardless

it stuns. then you get kicks in while they recover

just being able to kick with no effort makes the fight unwinable

[dusky surge]

kick also stuns so just use that

tailslam stuns bigger things than kick, but those bigger things aren't in the game so it's not important

for example, tailslam knocks down cera but kick doesn't

[mossy holly]

Your missing the problem

The raw damage from kick makes it win every fight against a carno or a cera with no effort whatsoever on the tenno's end

[dusky surge]

because the carno and cera should be putting in the effort to hunt it

[mossy holly]

There should be effort on both sides

not just one

[dusky surge]

there should be, but if the carno and cera just wanna facetank, teno shouldn't have to put in that much effort

because the carno and cera aren't putting in much effort

[mossy holly]

2 things

1. it is impossible to get around a tenno and avoid the back end of it.
2. Kick does more bleed than most carnivores do in a single hit

So you tell me how you are supposed to kill a tenno as a carno/cera

[dusky surge]

Get a group

[mossy holly]

without turning it into a 4v1

[dusky surge]

legit 2v1 will likely lead to you winning

[mossy holly]

Not if the tenno has any form of brains

because their damage and bleed output is so high

[dusky surge]

not really, their damage has been nerfed 3 updates in a row. Tailslam and kick both do far less damage than carno charge and cera charge bite

[mossy holly]

carno charge can be interrupted with basic situational awareness.
You have somewhat of an argument for charge bite, but you'll likely be stunned after delivering the bite because it locks you in position for a tiny bit

I think that cera/carno should both be able to 2v1 a tenno with good skill and effort. This is not currently the case unless the teno is stupid

Tenno is a herd animal aswell

[tropic horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/omw-to-spread-misinformation-all-over-the-internet-gif-26525511

[dusky surge]

the "herd animal" argument is terrible, because not only is teno bad at herding (much like stego), but weakening an animal then trying to convince people to play said animal to group up is bizarre

if an animal is designed to lose without a herd, there won't be anyone playing to make that herd to begin with

[mossy holly]

then why do omni's get played so much

when they cant do anything on their own thats not killing a.i

[dusky surge]

because they are perfectly good as solo animals as well

[mossy holly]

you cant justify forcing one side to pack up to kill enough to survive and then turn around and defend solo play for another animal

[dusky surge]

long hunger and thirst drain, a massive diet allowing them to scavenge or hunt AI/juvis effectively, the ability to pin and kill anything smaller than them

omni isn't forced at all

[mossy holly]

Im not talking about omni

[dusky surge]

omni is a perfectly valid solo creature

[mossy holly]

i'm talking about cera/carno v tenno

[dusky surge]

teno is also now a perfectly valid solo creature

because it doesn't get shredded by the first carno that sees it like it did for the past 3 patches

[mossy holly]

So i mostly play cerato and omni.

In my experience. The only time ceratos could kill a tenno, was at minimum a 3v1 in an open field. and most of the time we lose someone

[dusky surge]

cerato is a designed scavenger, not a hunter, so that might be your main issue

you primarily want to be stealing food and bullying other carnivores

[mossy holly]

Problem is there's not enough larger bodies to just stumble into.

[dusky surge]

because 95% of your strengths are built around that

[mossy holly]

so while scanvenging is perfectly viable

when you are required to hunt, it's nearly impossible

against the larger herbivores

which are the only thing that will fill your hunger/diets to a decent degree

Fighting a teno a few hours ago with another cerato for food because food was extremely low

was not very doable

[dusky surge]

from what i've seen, tenonto has gone from "big sack of meat" to an actually respectable presence like it was many updates ago before the nerfwave hit it and tossed it down to a weak nothing creature

frankly, i prefer the challenge of facing it as to it just... not existing due to the fact it was outclassed by both carno and cera for several updates

[mossy holly]

and while i perfectly agree that it's good to see it relevant again

i think it got slightly overbuffed

[dusky surge]

i think it's fine, since it still is weak to groups. Omnis, dilos can mess it up even in small groups and carno/cera can mess it up in a 2v1 (if they're clever)

[mossy holly]

I do not want to cripple tenno in any means

but it does a tad too much kick damage when it headshots, and it's going to headshot a cera/carno reguardless.

i'd expect something smaller like a dilo to just fold, as your mostly going to use your clones

[dusky surge]

i mean, both carno and cera can do more damage headshotting with their special attacks than teno can

[mossy holly]

Teno turns too fast for you to reliably get headshots in

you will almost always end up trading hits

[keen plover]

2 carnos can beat a teno

If they’re all good it’s Carno sided

[cobalt dagger]

Agreed with Bird and Mr. Frog

I came here to say, I'm playing on a server, when I was a baby dilo it was over-run with dilos - now it's over-run with raptors, and dead dilos everywhere, and I can't get diet because they're all dead dilos.

Did people learn some super secret trick in the raptor vs dilo fight that I didn't know?

[cobalt dagger]

That depends on the skill of the teno and the skill of the enemy. If they are turning one way, turn the other way and meet their head as it comes, and who reacts faster and responds better may come out on top more.

[sharp patrol]

Baby dilo lost venom and pr sure raptor grows faster and gets stronger earlier

[cobalt dagger]

Gotcha, thanks

[sharp patrol]

There's a period in raptor growth it's faster than dilo as well

[cobalt dagger]

I noticed that, but I think dilo gets it too when it's young

I've noticed my dilo be 50 at least once, when it is young.

[alpine snow]

I don't know about yall my cera has had no issues fighting teno lol. Obviously personal experience is a bad tool for balance discussion in a game where the skill range is so massive, but generally a cera can handle teno. Tho, obviously a braindead cera who tries to just face tank or brute force the teno will lose since it gets stunned by slam or kick

[shadow vortex]

As I know, they deleted the slide when cera charges its bite?

[sweet agate]

What did people not like about the pachy headbutt on trees? XD l thought it'd be a fun idea - the herrera wouldnt get knocked out, onl stam loss so it can dart to another tree.

[halcyon elk]

@tiny bolt btw the devs have been trying. Manually they've taken out nearly 100 of them just yesterday.

Fighting hackers is a game of cat and mouse.

There's never truly an end to it.

[latent bay]

@distant torrent apologies for the ping, but just out of curiosity may I ask why you disagree with Zerg about the Tenontosaurus VS Ceratosaurus matchup?

Is there, perhaps, something I'm missing or is Cerato expected to eat rot and die when faced with something stronger and faster than itself (note: I am speaking from inexperience, I havent played the isle in a large amount of time)

[distant torrent]

there’s not much you can do to either side without it negatively affecting either the playable itself or other playables it interacts with

if you buff cera to compensate for it vs teno, say if you buff its stam enough so it can run away, it gets the same problem as it did on Spiro where it has godly stam and can chase nearly anything down (that gets even worse with carb diets). if you buff its health, you in terms buff its weight which makes it better at hunting larger things it simply shouldn’t be hunting and tanking things it also shouldn’t be tanking. if you buff its natural damage resistance, you get that same problem.

if you nerf teno, say its stam, then its not going to play well and not feel like a good playable since its stam is precious and required for all meaningful attacks.

for now, teno is restricted heavily to water sources and its specific migration zone. if the cera stays away from those or just generally keeps a good distance from the teno, it should be fine. teno also can’t track and if the cera stays a good distance away, it can easily break line of site

just my piece on it

[latent bay]

Oh Jesus christ

That's a lot of words

[distant torrent]

haha mb

and cera and teno is about the same speed iirc. just only a .1 speed difference

which I believe was actually given to teno so cera wouldn’t be faster than it back on Spiro lol

[primal heart]

You are right,but I think sometimes cerato still need hunt.
This version teno costs 2%stm for kicks and 3%stm for tail slam,meanwhile teno run 135s and cerato run 95s,teno now just faster and stronger than cerato,and only tab your right click you can shut cerato up

[latent bay]

Considering its recent buff to its drains (2% kick 3% tail) would it not make sense for a nerf to its movement when it can adequately defend itself against not only Ceratosaurus but also Carnotaurus?

[distant torrent]

to be fair cera is meant mainly to be a scavenger that steals bodies rather than a hunter. its why it has a godly scent range

and also a body buff mechanic

and bile to discourage people from wanting to tango with it (though I think that could be expanded on more)

[primal heart]

Maybe cerato should give up the illusion of hunting

[latent bay]

Well

I heard somewhere its body buff got nerfed to 10% max. Could you clarify if that's true or not?

[primal heart]

Just wait player who want to fight come close

[latent bay]

You're about as regular here as DinoEnth and Wavepoole so I'd imagine you'd know

[distant torrent]

I haven’t tested it myself but I feel like that change was pretty needless tbh

that’s like what, a 130 health buff basically? not very meaningful lol better than nothing I guess but not very helpful

[primal heart]

I just think that carnivores are killing each other these days, because for carnivores, other carnivores are more accessible food, and kill herbivores are all hard work

This natural law is very different

[latent bay]

10% reduc instead of the initial 50% judt straight up slaughters the body stealer playstyle considering a buff that small makes it a carno victim by a not so close margin

[distant torrent]

I think carno can’t knock down a cera with a body buff? at least that’s what I heard

and I also think carno’s ram damage was reduced too

[distant torrent]

also because not many people are playing herbivore. most people seem to play either deino or other of the playable carnis and hang out either east or north east

[primal heart]

Now carno need to keep charge 3seconds than you can knockdown others

Which cost at least35% stm

[latent bay]

Well, tbf in the natural world carnivores don't predate other carnivores not because they're more difficult prey but because carnivores are generally parasite ridden and not worth it.

[sweet agate]

Herbivores cannot fight dilo. I play ninja pachy and pachys...dont have a fast attack to hit the clones. They gave our sway headbutt a cd.

Raptors are broken as in they cant pounce. Killed so many l felt bad but dilo? I knocked one down and as i recovered I DIED TO HIS CLONE.

they hit so hard, its so free. Why play herbivore atm?

[primal heart]

I Just think it's unfair,less player play herbivores then we keep buff them,yes herbivore player are increasing,but still use carnivore's playstyle

Kill other players,even own species

[sweet agate]

Bro maybe youre bad? I dont mess with full frown cera as pachy, a leg fracture but they still recover before pachy doing a ram to bite

[primal heart]

Now stego reach 1.8t at 28.5%（less than one hour）,already an untouchable weight, but it still look very small

[sweet agate]

Herbivores are not op outside steggo, i think you need to play smarter and not get stunned/fractured

[primal heart]

Stego now hardly plays the role of prey at any age, you see stego,ok you should go now,it's inedible

[distant torrent]

if the servers aren’t being wonky then its pretty easy to dodge and successfully bait stego hits. a 28.5% stego has a very small tail so its hard to hit anything notably fast lol

emphasis on if the servers aren’t being wonky (which seems to be rare now so expect to be hit by something 10 feet away)

[primal heart]

So you think the growth curve of stegosaurus is acceptable?

[latent bay]

Considering it straight up can't run from anything, so when meant with pressure it is forced to sit and die

Yes, it being to defend itself at any growth is perfectly fine

[primal heart]

Dude, I'm not dodging the young stegosaurus, I'm eating it. I want to live

[latent bay]

I'd you want to live then dodge the tail then crush its skull with your jaws

If when low on resources, you forbid all of your game sense and B-line to lmb spam then that's absolutely a skill issue

God forbid the stationary herbivore defend itself from a carnivore

[primal heart]

Smaller creature do not get the same reward for taking more risks,bigger creature like stego almost born to win

[latent bay]

Except that's not the case because it's slower than a snail just move to the right of its swing and crush its face in

There are existing counter-plays to young stegosaurs, use them

Don't just go straight for its face, otherwise you'll get cracked by it's tail,

LMB spam and facetanks is what Stegosaurus is entirely designed to deal with

It's also slow

Both medium sized theropods aren't even designed to fight against Stegosaurus anyways, Stegosaurus was simply added far too early.

[primal heart]

But they're in the same version now, so they're bound to be compared

[latent bay]

Clearly, yes, but this game is (seemingly) balancing around future additions, so future additions should be kept in mind

[primal heart]

In the early days of evrima, 50% of stegosaurs were only 1.6 tons. I think since you're playing a creature that will eventually be strong, it's reasonable to need to be very careful to survive early on

[latent bay]

Stegosaurus will get sufficient predation when Acrocanthosaurus, Tyrannosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Carcharodontosaurus, Albertosaurus, and maybe Suchomimus are added

[primal heart]

It's not that reasonable versions have existed, and the current growth curve is highly problematic

[primal heart]

Yep maybe after one whole year

[latent bay]

It's funny how the balance testing and development of 6 large theropods will take some time ain't it

[primal heart]

Yeah, the stegosaurus hasn't let me eat body all this time

[latent bay]

Sychomimus has nothing but a model, alberto and acro's models aren't done, rex is confirmed to come soon with trike, giga's model isn't complete iirc, and carch has no concept quite yet, considering how little developed most of them are just give it some time. We've given them time so far and haven't stopped playing

[latent bay]

That's not Stegosaurus' fault, that's the player of the Stegosaurus' fault. That is player choice, not balance

[latent bay]

Not highly problematic when the only predators we have are 2 small game hunters, a gaggle of tiny tiers, and a body denier

[distant torrent]

an effective solution to stego body guarding is to just walk away then come back later when it thinks you’ve left for good

[primal heart]

Now herbivores of the same size can easily defeat carnivores of the same size, carnivores get hungry very quickly and the ai is not enough to satisfy their appetite (not including the current version), while herbivores don't need to worry about food and get 3 different nutrients from the start.
The reason for this is simply that herbivores are not as fun and exciting to play as carnivores, and most players prefer to play carnivores.
So herbivores are constantly under siege and are constantly being buffed.
Now herbivores are growing fast and fighting well.

It is strange

I don't think herbivores should be that strong, and there are other special ways to play to make the experience rich. Increase the number of herbivores in this way

[alpine snow]

I heavily disagree on teno vs Cera as you all are saying. I'd gladly be down for some 1v1's and be proven wrong but I feel as though Cera is very capable.

Teno can just run it down? Sure...Cera still has bacteria and unless the teno has high hunger a few misteps could immediately put the Stam game into the Cera's favor.

"How could teno get bit?" Teno relies on its back end for extreme damage. Yes you can chase, but all it takes is for the Cera to quickly turn and bit and then disengage. Even if it takes a claw, the engagement is worth because of its high bleed resistance and getting bacteria on the teno.

[primal heart]

Now it's pretty much just fighting, eating and drinking

[latent bay]

You act like it hasn't always been that since legacy

[distant torrent]

well herbivores can’t exactly outrun their predatory counterparts so they have to be able to defend themselves, or else no one will want to play something that wastes their time

[alpine snow]

I have only died to deinos playing my Cera with the exception of a single carno encounter. Using personal experience isn't good for balance discussion, but I bring this up to try and say I have experience on Cera. I am up to being proven wrong, but please keep in mind the skill range in this game is extremely massive and many player try to use Cera as a facetanker despite it being an excellent brawler/bruiser with great agility

[latent bay]

The Isle has never once had any gameplay depth beyond eat, drink, rest, fight. That is all the isle is and at this course all it ever will be

[primal heart]

I thought evrima would at least change, but I still see a herbivore that is not like a herbivore, a carnivore that is not like a carnivore, and I as a carnivore have no ability to protect my prey, and I am constantly running away from herbivores and relying on ai to survive

Recently, I see videos of teno killing2 carno or 2cerato on YouTube

[distant torrent]

you should consider playing more herbivore such as teno, pachy, dryo, and stego to see how they feel in combat against carnivores (I don’t mean that in a rude way if it came off as that. it’s just good to get a fair amount of experience on both sides)

[alpine snow]

I've seen videos of solo ceras hunting stegos and I've seen videos of pachy killing Cera and Carno solo....this is not proof of anything. The skill range in this game is extremely large where you have players that haven't even figured out that manual alt bite is a setting they can turn on and players who can run Cera VS Carno and demolish the carno...

[primal heart]

I don't know why everyone is asking carnivores to be more skilled, while herbivores just need a strong body to survive.
I just think carnivores have a harder time surviving, so it should be easier for them to beat herbivores with less pressure to survive, you know, it's very simple.

[alpine snow]

For real. I used to main Teno, then pachy, then Omni, Then Cera, and now I am still Cera with Herrera sprinkled in.

Also, as a hyper-aggressive KOS'er, I have been in so many fights lmao

[distant torrent]

I literally grow to fight and kill with a bit of everything sprinkled in lmao I used to like nesting but it’s too much of a chore now

[alpine snow]

As someone who mainly plays carnivore, I don't struggle atm...

They do have a harder time surviving. The game is crap right now. Low Stam, either starving or surrounded by hundreds of corpses, and server jittering.

Herbivore? Eat grass and you can live. Herbivores, by nature, have less pressure than carnivores unless they have extreme predators who can easily hunt them, but such an extremity would not be healthy in a videogame...that's why you have counters.

Teno, right now, cannot take a Cera of similar skill. Idk about carno. And it should be able to beat Dilo by weight alone...

[primal heart]

Simply beefing up a herbivore's fighting abilities doesn't make a herbivore interesting

[alpine snow]

Stego? Stego is uncontested until Omni Stam and pounce is better or until we get the large carnivores planned

[distant torrent]

that unfortunately causes people to not play herbivore because it wastes their time

[alpine snow]

How does this refer to what I said at all? Not to sound rude, I need to know your thoughts.

[primal heart]

Herbivores deserve other pleasures, as you say.So now carnivore and herbivore torturing each other

[alpine snow]

Once again, you have made a comment that doesn't make sense to me. Please explain your comments lol

[latent bay]

(He means herbivores should have more depth to their gameplay to make them interesting rather than getting constantly buffed)

[frail bobcat]

Me when teno got nerfed last update

[halcyon elk]

I thought it got buffed?

[frail bobcat]

Or did they revert the stam cost for kicks and tail slams?

[alpine snow]

How would that fix the issue? If I played the most interesting herbivore in the world but had a disadvantage against carnivore players and lose most of my engagements and waste HOURS to constantly regrow, why would I player herbivore?

[primal heart]

Yes Carno should be able to beat Dilo only by weight

[distant torrent]

interesting gameplay is interesting for about a week before people abandon the playable if it can’t defend itself against things it can’t even dream of running away from

[alpine snow]

Which it does

[alpine snow]

(Bepi rn)

[distant torrent]

[primal heart]

But now carno need at least 35%stm to knock down others

[frail bobcat]

Good

[primal heart]

[distant torrent]

carno is the fastest playable in the game with all the power to control who gets to fight it. I think that’s pretty fair

[halcyon elk]

That's good. 90% of carno's prey is things that aren't good at fighting well.

[alpine snow]

It doesn't need the knockdown to beat half of its matchups rn. Not to say I like the Stamina cost, but I still don't get why you are saying what you say...

Carno doesn't need charge to kill Dilo...

[primal heart]

What's problem with that?

[halcyon elk]

Carno shouldn't be overly reliant on its charge. It's charge is a utility. Not a crutch

[primal heart]

So you think carno are bad now？

[halcyon elk]

Carno is good for what it does

[alpine snow]

????

You are losing me. You said Carno should be able to beat Dilo by weight.

I said it does...

Then you said now carno needs at least 35% Stam to knock down others...

Then I say it doesn't need the knockdown to perform well so it isn't an issue and it still beats dilo without it...

And you respond with What's problem with that?

Maybe I'm just dumb right now but I am not keeping up in the conversation with this man lmao

[primal heart]

No, please don't blame yourself, my English is not very good

[halcyon elk]

He means that carno should kill dilo by weight. And is refuting that it doesn't rn.

[halcyon elk]

@primal heart am I right in my assessment?

[alpine snow]

Ohh okay you're perfectly fine. What's your first language? I feel as though you aren't understanding what some people are saying and thus having imaginary conflicts

Like you responding with "you think carno is bad now?"

[distant torrent]

the only issue carno has (imo) is not enough people play small things it should be hunting (like dryo) so people think it should be easily taking on larger playables since that’s mainly what everyone plays

[primal heart]

I means that carno should kill dilo because of it's weight. It stands to reason that a 1.8-ton animal should be able to crush creatures like omni and dilo very easyly

[alpine snow]

And carno does easily kill Dilo

[halcyon elk]

And it does easily kill dilo.

[primal heart]

It is true

[alpine snow]

Honestly, the game shouldn't even have a balance feedback discussion channel right now. The game is too unstable and struggling due to its poor mechanics/environment.

Until the map, gameplay, and environment are stable once more, balance doesn't mean much because so many conflicts can change just on those factors alone

[primal heart]

Well, maybe it's because I haven't had a good experience with the game lately, after all, the last version had almost no ai, making it hard for carnivores to play

So if you don't mind my whining

[alpine snow]

And game jitter...god I hate the jitter

[primal heart]

True

[cobalt dagger]

I had a pack of 2 half grown dilo and 3 full grown dilo and we lost a fight against 4 full grown raptors. I keep hearing dilo is op (And I know it's op) - I'm curious to know what we did wrong, or should we have fled from them?

They didn't get any pounces they just bit us to death

[cosmic pelican]

Dont stand your ground as dilo, its alt attacks are easily exploitable and the turn speed while standing is abysmal. Best you can do isrun around them and try to get bites in, if youre a group bite the ones that chase your group members

[alpine snow]

Dilo isn't OP, it has a very unhealthy utility. Dilo has weak bleed resistance and poor agility while Omni has better agility and is a bleeder. Even it's normal bites will stack hard.

Most players will lose a Dilo vs Omni fight if the Omni player is of equal skill or better.

So you losing that engagement is completely reasonable

[cobalt dagger]

That makes sense, I did run them around. They were good raptors, whoever I was chasing stopped chasing my group. In the end my group died before I did and then I died.

[cobalt dagger]

This makes sense too, I was noticing lately that dilo kinda looses the engagement ( at least with a skilled omni) but Dilo is faster and has a bit more run time so I think the solution therein must be to run.

I should have told my group to run too

[primal heart]

Dilo is good against pounce,but can't good against omni

[halcyon elk]

Hey do yall know how much teno kick does?

[tropic horizon]

300 damage I’m pretty sure though if carnos charge damage is anything to go by, damage numbers aren’t universal across species sometimes

[halcyon elk]

Aye

[tropic horizon]

300 damage since 1 kick one shots a raptor

Well to the head at least

[halcyon elk]

Thx

[tropic horizon]

Tail slam does 150 damage and claw does around 130-135 ish

[distant torrent]

250 unless it was buffed

[halcyon elk]

250?

[distant torrent]

yep

[tropic horizon]

It one shots Omni to the head tho-

Im confused

[halcyon elk]

Omni is 450

250×1.5

Wait.

[tropic horizon]

300 x 1.5 is exactly 450

Which is how I got the damage number

[halcyon elk]

The math was wrong, I was talking about how strong diablo is

[distant torrent]

was it tested this update with a full health omni?

[primal heart]

Carno charge dmg 225.but charge does x2 dmg to omni head

[halcyon elk]

Since diablo can kill dilo in 2 charged shots

[primal heart]

And many other skill does x2 damage to omni head

Like Herrera jump attack

[tropic horizon]

Hm

[halcyon elk]

Though discussing diablo. How strong would it be.

[tropic horizon]

I’ll have to test it some time to figure it out

[tropic horizon]

Depends on its stun and knockdown resistance honestly

[primal heart]

Normal bite does x1.5 dmg

[tropic horizon]

Well maybe not

It had an absurd 350 bite force from what we saw

Which is more than enough to put most carnivores out of commission easily

[halcyon elk]

Wait. 350? As in BASIC ATTACK. Is 350?

[primal heart]

300 actually

[halcyon elk]

So diablo charge alt is insane isn't it.

Since minimum to two shot a dilo is 350.