balance-feedback-discussion

[odd pebble]

Nerf the damage and knockdown range and we have achieved peace

[tropic horizon]

It’s instant, free high damage at no cost but stamina to the carno

[latent bay]

Night existed, but it was like "visual night" where it wasn't dark to a point where if you were to walk forward you'd trip on a mile high cliff and explode because you forgot to press x

[halcyon elk]

If carnos charge was like, 300. It'd be much better than the ludicrous 475 the charge does.

[tropic horizon]

I miss the update 4 and 4.5 visual nights man. They looked so incredible and atmospheric

[latent bay]

We all do, gibby. We all do

[latent bay]

What in the god damn number

[tropic horizon]

I’ve tested it before and didn’t get 475 but I’m not sure

[halcyon elk]

I have heard it's charge dealt 475. Though I may be wrong

[tropic horizon]

For a body shot it was around 240 something damage but I’m not sure

[odd pebble]

Same.

[tropic horizon]

Yeah thats wrong

If it was 475 it’d one shot Omnis on the body

Which is just

God please don’t let there be another time where that’s possible

[latent bay]

Dino specified on heads

[golden coral]

Could be the 450 on headshots perhaps?

[tropic horizon]

Yeah it clean one shots Omni to the head

[golden coral]

Now keep in mind carno should fail more hunts than succeed, and struggle, as all carnivores should.

[latent bay]

Its probably 450 considering most headshot mults are 1.5x, with pachy's i think being a .8x and stego's being a 2x

[dusky surge]

it only does 475 on headshot

because it's a 350 damage attack

[halcyon elk]

Oh

[tropic horizon]

Oh that’s lovely

[golden coral]

Still way too powerful, need a severe damage nerf

[halcyon elk]

That definitely needs to go down by about 100. Maybe 50 at minimum

[tropic horizon]

So it’s a charge bite without the windup or input lock after using it along with a stun or knockdown

[dusky surge]

fun fact, it does more damage than cera charge bite and teno tailslam/kick

all while having far less of the chargeup/sound penalty of the charge bite and none of the movement restrictions of the kick or tailslam

all while having hard knockdowns on anything even a kg under it

[tropic horizon]

Because engaging mechanic

[dusky surge]

and having the best CC in the game as it can just keep going through several targets

teno mains keep crying

carno is finally balanced

it can nuke anything and loses to nothing but its own incompetence

as it should be

[halcyon elk]

Or deino.

[dusky surge]

the only animal carno remotely struggles with is deino. Even a stego out in the open is pretty easy for a carno to harrass and kill

[golden coral]

Carno is far from balanced, simple as that

[halcyon elk]

Which is a problem.

[dusky surge]

its those damned herbi mains who want to go back to bullying this poor innocent creature that can easily run away from them the moment a situation is unfavourable

if there's one complaint we need to take seriously, it's the tenos who run down carnos

what can a carno do in that situation besides charge the tenonto and combo in bites, space themselves out and repeatedly charge, use hit and run tactics to attack with bites while retaining stam and keeping distance, run away, or disengage using forests as herbivores don't have tracking? It's basically helpless. They have zero options besides all the options I just mentioned

[latent bay]

Is that a bad carno matchup or is that a board wide bad matchup

[dusky surge]

Stego is the only creature that stands a chance against it. This is why it needs to be nerfed again

[tropic horizon]

Let’s make stego 4 tons so it can be drowned by deino

[halcyon elk]

Make it easier for deino to detected.

[dusky surge]

no i'm obviously talking about stego

the issue is that, as an 8 ton croc, i realistically should be allowed to chomp down on a stego's head and kill it instantly

this creates an engaging gameplay where
A: I win
B: I don't have to work hard to do so

[latent bay]

Yes yes. 600 day tail swipe should suffice. Make it drain 1/5th of its dtam, surely that'll totally make stego more fsir for deino to fight

[halcyon elk]

https://tenor.com/view/dbz-abridged-tfs-cell-cell-violently-angry-gif-18642071

[dusky surge]

the worst part about deino is the fact it has a single bad matchup

[latent bay]

It should eat grass and die, because as we all know carnivores always win against herbivores

[dusky surge]

this was the key flaw in the development process

[tropic horizon]

How could it possibly have a bad matchup it’s the big scary croc!!1!1!!1

[latent bay]

flashbacks to the argument i had with someone who said owl > argentinosaurus because herbivore weak

[halcyon elk]

https://tenor.com/view/emperor-text-to-speech-emperor-text-to-speech-sarcasm-sass-blasting-gif-27361742

[dusky surge]

moose are known for being meek and mild and dying to the first carnivore that sees them, as are zebra, hippos and water buffalo

[tropic horizon]

Piranhas would kill an Argentinosaurus

Because herbivore bad

[latent bay]

No wonder monhun only has like 3 herbivore large monsters

Because herbi bad carni stronk

[tropic horizon]

They sprout legs and chase the argentino down

[latent bay]

It was truly that simply clearly the 70 tonne Rapetosaurus would get fodderized by Microraptor

[dusky surge]

remember, people HAVE to play herbivores otherwise my carnivores have nothing to eat, but herbivores ARE NOT allowed to be strong otherwise how am I supposed to maintain full stomach and diets at all times?

everyone but me should be playing herbivores and enjoy the fact that they're weak

i don't want to, so you have to

[tropic horizon]

Herbi being quicker to grow or just yknow

Better

Would be veri cool

[dusky surge]

no herbis should grow 2x faster than carnivores but be way weaker so we get more food faster

people would play the herbivores because they grow fast i guess

y'know how everyone plays hypsi for the same reason

yea, similar concept that made hypsi so popular

[tropic horizon]

Instant growth for dryo

[dusky surge]

god yes

more food faster, don't buff herbis, just make them fatter faster

more food for my epic awesome carnivore

[tropic horizon]

They must run away from all the strong carnivores

Stego should rear up on its hind legs and scamper away from the sight of a troodon

[dusky surge]

she is an utha, her name is "nightfang" and she is a powerful raptor matriach, and unless herbivores literally die for me i cannot possibly hope to play this video game

[halcyon elk]

https://tenor.com/view/(internal-screaming%5D-comics-book-human-manga-gif-1916419632752189692

[latent bay]

Tbh on a serious note while I agree herbivores should slam predators in 1v1s and stuff in exchange carni and herbi group limits should equalize

Say, for example, cera was teno's main predator. Tenonto in this hypothetical can cleanly slam 1 or even 3 ceras, so if teno could for say group up to 6, cera should group to 6 in turn (note this is not what I actually think for this matchup this is a pure hypothetical)

[dusky surge]

teno doesn't need herds of 8 in all seriousness

like, i get kinda why they did it, but it's really not necessary

[latent bay]

It should be able to function well enough in a heard of 4 or 5

[dusky surge]

4 or 5 is a better number, yea

[halcyon elk]

Diablos if anything should have larger groups as they're made to punch up in larger groups.

[tropic horizon]

I really miss U3 teno

[dusky surge]

diablos having big herds is fine because, y'know, they actually operate well in said herds

[dusky surge]

i miss playing a herbivore that felt rewarding to defeat and powerful to play at the same time

[odd pebble]

I'd say 3 is the best number for least friendly fire and most efficient in general

[latent bay]

What's stego's limit again?

[dusky surge]

eh, the idea of them being outpacked by cera is just weird. 4 or 5 is a good medium

[tropic horizon]

6 I think

[odd pebble]

Didnt get to play then, but boy do i miss update 5 teno

[odd pebble]

That's a fair point

[tropic horizon]

U3 teno could four shot carno if I’m correct

[dusky surge]

i genuinely can't fathom people complaining about it, my first ever experiences were fighting tenos as raptors, and I genuinely recall the sheer excitement of hunting this legitimately powerful herbi and actually kill it

[tropic horizon]

Or 5 shot something close to that

[dusky surge]

5 stegos

[tropic horizon]

Yeah my first ever hunt was as a carno and I remember trying to charge a teno only to get completely guillotined by it’s tail and left on the slightest sliver of hp

[odd pebble]

Same man, i remember back in update 4 i solo'd my first teno and the sheer thrill and sense of accomplishment i got, even tho it was a sub teno and it whooped my ass. Nowadays its not the same

[dusky surge]

teno doesn't feel cool anymore

[tropic horizon]

It made me genuinely respect and fear them

[dusky surge]

which is sad because it absolutely used to feel cool

[tropic horizon]

I was insanely careful around them because I knew that if I screwed up that could’ve been my life ending in a flash

[latent bay]

It used to feel INCREDIBLE, cool is an understatement tbh. It was the most interesting playable for me until cera and thats only due to entirely personal biases

[odd pebble]

Teno can still 1v1 a carno under the assumption that the teno player is very skilled and the carno player doesnt know how to abuse the insta charge

[tropic horizon]

Teno was the first thing I gravitated to when playing since it looked so interesting and engaging and I was very correct about that at the time

[odd pebble]

And you get no interruptions in between. So basically a very slim chance

[dusky surge]

because teno is literally THE herbivore of EVRIMA (literally most well-balanced kit, iconic design, good size for the roster to be within range of everyone), the fact it used to be this behemoth that everyone respected without being busted was testament to its perfection of design

I just don't get that anymore, it doesn't command the same level of respect it once did, and that's bad

[latent bay]

very bad

[tropic horizon]

I like feeling on edge when hunting I like feeling like there’s actual risk involved like

[dusky surge]

it's not just nostalgia speaking, it was still formidable even in U4

it only lost that when all these nerfs started rolling in for it

[tropic horizon]

I LOVED U4 teno

[odd pebble]

Yeah i liked the sight of 2 carnos seeing a teno and having a discussion to see if it was worth it

[dusky surge]

the fact that different creatures approached teno radically differently dependent on circumstance was nothing short of genuinely so fun

[tropic horizon]

I remember me and my friend would go into these servers and these hordes of carnos would try us

Luckily for us the carnos were the worst players imaginable

And we had managed to somehow someway clutch a 2v8

[dusky surge]

i legitimately believe that an active tenontosaurus playerbase is directly correlated with the enjoyment of this game

a herbivore that never feels unrealistic as a hunt target, but never feels like a pushover either

all carnivores of all sizes CAN engage it, but it WILL punish you if you become overconfident

[tropic horizon]

I mean I think it is genuinely the most fun thing to fight as and against when it’s done right

[dusky surge]

i enjoy playing carnivores more when tenontos are there to hunt and AREN'T easy food

because it is a herbivore that actually pushes you to think like a carnivore
"is it hurt/tired"
"is it paying attention"
"does it have friends"
"where are my friends"
"what's the plan of attack"

[odd pebble]

Cera v teno is one of the most enjoyable matchups in the game imo

[dusky surge]

cera v teno actually goes hard now tbh

[tropic horizon]

It is my favorite matchup in the game

[dusky surge]

legit, cera v teno lights that spark of "teno is cool" again

[tropic horizon]

I am a cerato main and I’d always get super hyped to fight them solo

[dusky surge]

god damn that matchup is good

[odd pebble]

Not a cera main but i feel the same way when im in that position

[dusky surge]

playing a teno and actually outsmarting and outskilling a cera gives you that old-fashioned adrenaline rush

[tropic horizon]

I love a 1v1 against an equally matched opponent and teno scratches that itch for me

[dusky surge]

teno being able to competently fend off even small groups of ceras if it's playing well is SOOOO good dear god its actually cool and i love it

LET TENO BE COOL

[tropic horizon]

And I also like that cera is still capable of hunting it

Like it is NOT fodder in the slightest

[odd pebble]

Yep

[tropic horizon]

Because I think if Cerato was just not allowed to hunt it I think I might’ve dropped it all together because it currently has pretty much 0 fun matchups

At least to me anyways

[dusky surge]

nerf carno and omni to cera's basically now perfect balance level

isn't it bizarre that cera went from "king god of U6.5" to "wait what this animal is balanced now how did that happen"

[tropic horizon]

Once you take away the tiny cramped map and the ability to basically run forever it becomes a lot more balanced

[odd pebble]

If vomit allowed to use non frontal attacks but at a reduced damage value i'd be very happy, but that's more of a mechanic problem than a cerato problem

[tropic horizon]

Spiros small size was honestly one of ceratos biggest boons cause you could just sniff down a carcass from pretty much any distance and just dash all the way over there without care and you’d instantly win

[dusky surge]

god its so much more fun to use that extended scent range when there's food in more than one spot

[tropic horizon]

I think it could use a slight stamina buff but not to the point of it being reverted to 6.5 cera

[odd pebble]

Gateway really let cerato be the scavenger survivalist it was advertised

[dusky surge]

i honestly think the stam is fine

because its attacks still don't take stam

[tropic horizon]

It just feels like it exhausts itself really quickly but Tbf that’s how most things this update feel so it’s not that big of an issue

[dusky surge]

which is honestly fine given its current stats

[tropic horizon]

Couldn’t be happier with its current state

Only thing that puts it down is the bustedness of Omni and carno but that’s not it’s problem anyway just a problem with the “engaging mechanics” provided by carno and omni

[dusky surge]

yea, teno and cera being "bad" is not true, they're in comparison to omni and carno

honestly, teno's buff where it can throw out TONS of attacks with its stam is perfect for it

because now you gotta deal with goddamn "flurry of blows" teno as an attacker

god hope you exhaust it because it will just keep on kicking otherwise

[tropic horizon]

Omni being able to eliminate 30% of a ceras health by fully holding down its pounce is just the worst thing ever

[dusky surge]

its so awesome right

[tropic horizon]

Like me and my friend tested it’s damage for fun and we were consistently able to deal out that damage to the other person because of the awesome mechanics that Omni has now

[dusky surge]

tbh, im glad the next two carnis being added are dilo and herrera, because there is no way they can outperform the current kings

even dilo, despite its massive overhyping

[tropic horizon]

Dilo is seems like it’s gonna be laughable to fight as a big guy

[slim dragon]

Watch as there is a bug that makes the hallucination spread venom
Meaning if you bite someone once, then they get attacked by hallucinations that deal damage an re-envenomate them forever

[dusky surge]

think about the implications of a 700kg, fragile creature that can't jump, has no CC/stun based attack and that has to constantly CALL TO USE ITS PRIMARY MECHANIC and consider how that might possibly not be in its favour

[tropic horizon]

Or even something small like a pachy because fun fact Dilo is just under Pachy’s knockdown threshold

So Pachy’s are gonna launch Dilos around which I can’t wait for

[dusky surge]

i do not care if you think it's a "better troodon", it's going to literally expose itself via the simple act of hunting because its laugh will be a broadcast for nearby creatures to kick its ass

also it still has nothing like knockdowns, grabs or pounces, which every other carnivore atm relies upon. Good luck to it, I suppose

[tropic horizon]

It’s worse troodon

[dusky surge]

tbh, the dilo overhype is something that has actively lowered my liking for the creature

it's hysterical how now that cera didn't fulfil that role, dilo is the almighty "stego killer"

[tropic horizon]

I never really was that hyped for it because I always just saw it as the thing that everything was going to bully

[dusky surge]

quick tip, stop headcanoning every new carnivore as hunting stegos otherwise you will be disappointed

[tropic horizon]

Like in the daytime if a carno sees a Dilo that Dilo can just forget that it has ownership over its soul because that carno is claiming it

Or even at night

[dusky surge]

carno better get dilo on its diet
A: Dilo is small game
B: The hell is a dilo gonna do against a carno in broad daylight
C: Carno needs more options

The main way to deal with carno is verticality or stuns

Dilo has neither

God bless, god rest

[tropic horizon]

It is so DEAD upon launch

[dusky surge]

TBH, all this dilo being weak talk is making me wanna play it more

This is what gets me hyped

[slim dragon]

Dilo won't be weak for long
Dilo mains will complain and it's gonna get buffed to 2000 kg and 600 biteforce

[dusky surge]

A carnivore that isn't some god and actually struggles to hunt prey and feels all the more rewarding when it pulls it off

[tropic horizon]

I might touch Dilo but I am rather disinterested in it

[dusky surge]

I wanna play herrera so bad because
A: I love the concept of any arboreal
B: It looks like it's going to be worse deino but in a tree and I ABSOLUTELY vibe with that

[tropic horizon]

Would rather play Herrera

God those first few weeks when it launches you are just gonna barely see anything on the ground

Just gonna hear all the Herreras up in the trees

[dusky surge]

But real talk tho, dryo is getting the teno treatment

And I cannot be more hyped

Bite, kick, tailwhip, dodge. This thing has a full kit

[tropic horizon]

On top of that it has a burrow coming up which I cannot wait for

[dusky surge]

Isn't it cool how much cooler dryo seems when it has options, even if said options are still limited for most matchups, it's nice to have them

[tropic horizon]

I really hope Dino’s get more “building” mechanics that aren’t just burrows

[dusky surge]

Hypsi BETTER be allowed to build its weaver type nests in trees ISTG

[tropic horizon]

Well I mean the only other one I’d like is just giving beipi the ability to build beaver lodges and dams

Would be cool to add, and could give it more impact on the ecosystem but then again

Not sure how it would mesh with the rest of the game

[tropic horizon]

Or just another semi aquatic with that ability

[dusky surge]

Minmi is getting underwater burrows

I love minmi so much I wanna be that lil bastard

I love the concept of a semi-aquatic that just kinda sinks

[tropic horizon]

I like the concept of minmi a lot just not sure how well it’s gonna be implemented

Also just wish there were more semi aquatic herbis

What if they made Ava semi aquatic and let it bully things out there burrows on land and in water

[slim dragon]

Then it'd truly be a WATER-melon

[tropic horizon]

PERFECT

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message

[tropic horizon]

Carno is totally fine!

[distant torrent]

10/10

[tropic horizon]

Most balanced, fair, engaging playable we’ve ever had. Truly a master class in game design.

[distant torrent]

definitely. it’s about as fair as ptera getting a 350 damage peck

[tropic horizon]

In all seriousness I think this update could be brought into the most balanced state the game has ever had if you just yknow

[distant torrent]

(they won’t)

[tropic horizon]

Nerfed carno and Omni to where their bs abilities like disabling attacks and movement and insta charge are removed then I think it would just be fine

[tropic horizon]

(I know, I’m coping because I have a serious case of Stockholms syndrome with this game.)

Well I can’t tell anymore

[distant torrent]

I genuinely LOVE this game but man

carno’s been needing tweaked for a long time and omni’s been in a godly position for way too long

not to mention deino not having a lunge and bite afterwards cooldown, which just makes drowning useless compared to repeatedly biting and occasionally lunging

not to mention the boring repetition of migrations

(not to mention the servers being a bit wack with ping spikes and hackers. god I haven’t touched the isle since I kept getting teleported back into a carno’s mouth and back into the spot of where it was ramming the amount of speed hacking ceras I’ve seen is also concerning)

[tropic horizon]

I love this game too but my feelings are insanely complicated on it. I love the game that has been made but hate how certain things have been executed (migrations, sanctuaries) I love the community but also do not approve of it at the same time. I have had plenty of great memories but also terrible ones too soooo

Yeah I have very mixed feelings on this game

I do love it genuinely but like

Aggghhh

[distant torrent]

it’s that toxic ex you keep coming back to

[tropic horizon]

Anti cheat is really difficult to make but this game DESPERATELY needs it

[tropic horizon]

That literally personifies this game to me

[tropic horizon]

Tbf carno and Omni are two of the weirdest Dino’s to balance in the game because of their mechanics

[distant torrent]

it really does need it so bad

about half of my player deaths on gateway have been to speed and esp hackers

the other half was mostly deinos because I was just being dumb lmao

[tropic horizon]

I remember the onslaught of spiro hackers

Was playin cera with two other friends and this hacking carno managed to charge three of us in a row

In a single ram

We were spaced out too one of us was in a bush

He locked onto us and maneuvered like a guided missile

[distant torrent]

I’ve lost so many omnis and a few tenos on spiro because of esp and speed hacking carnos

[tropic horizon]

Like the hackers are so blatant about it

It’s actually hilarious

[distant torrent]

always feels good when you’ve been chilling in a bush then try to log and a carno comes in at mach 8 to ram you

[tropic horizon]

They’re simply playing the game how they feel carno should be normally

They use hacks to simulate what they think carno should be

It all makes sense now

[distant torrent]

I got it

let’s buff carno’s speed to 100 and let it sniff players out as far as a cera can sniff rot

watch the population of hacking carnos drop because the playable would then already be perfect

we solved the hacking situation

[uncut trellis]

Could I get some clarification if Omnis pounce is just this buggy? Cause goodness, I feel like only a quarter of them actually land

[latent bay]

They made it so omnis can't magnetise onto things from their head or tail I think

[slim dragon]

Oh that might be the reason
Finally locational pounce is back

[latent bay]

I'm pretty sure yeah

[dusky surge]

@white dagger do i have good news for you

dryo is getting a kick and tailwhip next update

[coarse blaze]

#balance-feedback message Same guy who thinks omnis aren't OP.

And downvotes just about anything saying to nerf carno/omni.

Crazy take.

[dusky surge]

he likes carnivores what can i say

[shadow vortex]

Alongside with new dinos launch or after some time?

[dusky surge]

same update. Stress testers have access to the new dryo attacks

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1184262600293359806/The_Isle_2023.12.12_-_17.36.10.02.mp4?ex=658b557e&is=6578e07e&hm=66894cccf08988eaee944ac00a5907fcad3e2b5d06ee1bf9ff02c409e7cbf2ba&

lil guy got HANDS

[keen plover]

Did you see the teno changes :O

Or heard of it

[dusky surge]

hm? no, not yet, enlighten me

[keen plover]

So

[shadow vortex]

I see, that’s nice. Was hoping update will come before Christmas but seems like it’s not going to do that xd

[keen plover]

Teno has the ability to cancel charge now. An actual dedicated interaction

With slam & kick

[dusky surge]

wow, that's pretty cool tbh

i heard you can no longer topple tenos either as a carno

[keen plover]

Yeah that I don't know about

[dusky surge]

it likely will come before christmas

it seems like the devs really want this out before their break

nothing hanging over their heads that way

[shadow vortex]

Damn that’s a ninja. Where did you get the video from btw? xd Haven’t seen it on Youtube for once

[dusky surge]

isle discussion

[shadow vortex]

I see

[shadow vortex]

Oh… Okay thank you x)

[dusky surge]

herbis seem to be getting some good stuff this patch

which is great because carnis otherwise are going to completely dominate with the new ones lol

[keen plover]

Yeah

Pachy though :(

[dusky surge]

man can't have a win

[keen plover]

Dilo is a horrifying matchup

[dusky surge]

especially with dilo, now would be the perfect time to give it a damage boost

[dusky surge]

so wait, how does that work? is it like the pachy interaction?

both attacks clash and teno wins?

[keen plover]

That I can't verify but I heard it from a QA :(

[dusky surge]

augh

i'll test once the hype wears off, or just when the update comes out with my server

[keen plover]

All I know is it wins somehow

[dusky surge]

apparrently i've heard carno's knockdown range got reduced too

can't knockdown tenos anymore apparently

only stuns

[keen plover]

Interesting

hmmm wish someone played carno / teno and tested

[dusky surge]

not gonna happen with the new boys

although carno would probably have a field day with all these dilos

seems like carno will be a main pred

[keen plover]

2 carnos = horde dead

[dusky surge]

100%

[keen plover]

lool

[dusky surge]

dilo's low agility and high speed won't save it from something with higher speed lol

and a much larger size

[keen plover]

If Carno's damage hasn't changed on charge then gg lol

[dusky surge]

no chance dilo survives

its good tho, because im sick of new roster additions being also the most viable goddamn things ever and just all over the place (cera)

also pachy when that came out was extremely powerful and found almost everywhere

[shadow vortex]

So dryo in ST has got a kick, tail whip and dodge at the same time? But what are the control keys for all of that then lol? xD Is it like ‘just RMB’ is for dodge, but ‘alt RMB’ is for tail whip? But what is the left key for kick then… I don’t understand

[slim dragon]

When you press LMB it does a random attack out of the three, OR a dodge

[shadow vortex]

What the heck. I hope it isn’t the mechanic lol

[slim dragon]

No it's just

https://tenor.com/view/omw-to-spread-misinformation-all-over-the-internet-gif-26525511

[halcyon elk]

Thinking about it. It'd make sense for alt LMB attacks to be kicks, LMB basic for bite. RMB for the weave. And alt RMB for the tail whip

[shadow vortex]

Yep but the problem is that alt-attacks lock your locomotion and can be performed only while standing still x) Probs they'll add another keybinds but doubtfully

[rigid tulip]

I just cried tears of joy

[neon willow]

@vague steeple headshots do 1.5x damage. Tailshots do 0.75x damage. The only exceptions are stego (2.0x headshot multiplier) and pachy (0.75x headshot multiplier)

[rigid tulip]

Most based sentence ive ever see

[vague steeple]

Thanks for the correction.

[stark knoll]

Tail tip hits deal even less than that

[fresh laurel]

So herrera cool and balanced?

[shadow vortex]

I wish I could see it on Youtube. Most people there now play as dilos or herreras, not showing other changed stuff :(

[ember iris]

No clue if it's balanced, but it sure as heck looks cool so far. Has real low bite damage but it bites super fast.

[frail bobcat]

@merry wing I am pretty sure that I saw z-walk and crouch having a better stam regen in the ST build

[tawny fox]

#balance-feedback message

I feel like in general Herra should also be able to scavange a lot so having a broad diet would make sense? What do yall think?

[distant torrent]

wait

like actually?

[crisp patio]

I’m not sure the current diets are final diets, but if diet is the issue, organs are there specifically for that

I personally like the diets a lot. Crab, turtle and bullfrog are the 3 easiest AI to find from my experience, especially bullfrogs which are super easy to find, so you get some nice diet when you’re young or struggling to find or kill players too

Bullfrog gets irrelevant for Dilo as it goes to adulthood but for Herrera it can probably give you a decent bit throughout your life, if you live in a coastal area near some river or swamp you can pretty easily get perfect diet

[coarse blaze]

Elaborate please

[wraith relic]

Player0 told me that herbivores are definitely not doing well, pachy in particular

He said dilo can face tank it

[dusky surge]

yea, its well known that pachy is getting screwed over

teno and dryo, however, are doing much better

[wraith relic]

They seem good

I don’t like talking about carno anymore because that thing is a mess, both op and painful to play kind of and man it’s so weird right now

[dusky surge]

carno apparently has had significant nerfs in its matchups against teno

and tenos are much better at facing them

[wraith relic]

I really think they need to rollback carnos changes to like update 5.5, it wasn’t exactly amazing back then but I found it more fun to play than right now

[dusky surge]

eh, i disagree

i think it still possesses plenty of the problems with charge

[wraith relic]

If they rolled it back to update 5.5 then made changes to its charge I’d be more happy, like how it has the charge thing that dryo has with its dodge

Back then its charge turn was worse I think so you never really wanted to activate it until the last second

[dusky surge]

yea, which was bad

the low turn radius didn't matter because you could tapram

[wraith relic]

People are saying that you should need to wait to activate charge after starting to run but I’d rather the charge have its own acceleration

[young iron]

https://tenor.com/view/steven-hyde-thats-cool-that70s-show-gif-24419314

[coarse blaze]

Is it anything like before do you know? Like tail-slamming as they charge into you to stop it?

Where did they mention the teno changes?

Also my god does Dilo bite fast

[halcyon granite]

yeah that is if a carno is brain dead and doenst charge, 1 charge into the head of a teno deals cca 50% dmg to a fully adult teno, but if a teno stuns you and kicks you once or twice in the head than as a carno you are also around 50% health. its good overall but i still think carnos charge is a bit to op, since you can just wait for it to recharge and charge again, even worse if there are 3 carnos in group and they all charge you, you will die in seconds .

[halcyon granite]

i thiink they removed the charge cancel with teno tail slam ?

[dusky surge]

this is in the ST

[halcyon granite]

oh new changes?

[dusky surge]

yea

apparently, the matchup got a lot more carno-favoured

[halcyon granite]

i mean carno is already favoured in a teno match up now

[dusky surge]

sorry teno favoured

i might be stupid

excuse me for being actively dumb

[halcyon granite]

no problem bro, this gonna be interesting

[shadow vortex]

Do you have any videos of teno vs carno matchup on ST? Can’t find one anywhere oof :(

[coarse blaze]

Teno should be able to, I'd genuinely love to have engaging fights with two medium sized dinosaurs rather than what we currently have.

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message another point to the scoreboard of pachy being easier prey for almost all carnivores, even ones that shouldn’t be hunting it

[tropic horizon]

But it eats grass

But it’s a small herbivore

It needs to be easy to kill

Man I miss when pachy was capable of defending itself

[distant torrent]

and dies

[foggy elm]

everyone knows that herbivores are weak!11!1

[tropic horizon]

The MIGHTY CARNIVORES CRUSH the competition

[foggy elm]

yea, carnotaurus weighs more so it has to be super strong. sorry that you dont understand realism and that this is a survival game..... (im joking if you cant tell)

[tropic horizon]

As we all know, weighing more than something instantly means that you are stronger than the thing you weigh more than

[foggy elm]

and we also know that scavenger = weak. and ceratosaurus should have 0 chance killing a carno because it weighs more so it has to be super duper strong

[tropic horizon]

Indeed

[foggy elm]

glad we can agree on that

[halcyon elk]

I know it's sarcastic bait

But it is grinding me gears

[neon willow]

Yes absolutely. That's why a single deino should be much stronger than a stego, since it weighs 2k more. It should win every time and also be able to pick up a stego and drown it

It definitely should not need to stop and ask why it is trying to hunt something outside of it's intended weight range. Weighs less = win

[cosmic pelican]

By that logic pachy insta wins against omni

[tropic horizon]

I wish pachy could win against Omni again without having to stick to a rock or a tree like glue

[cosmic pelican]

Personally Ive never had issues in a 1v1, 2v1 against semi competent omnis is pretty much impossible though :/

[tropic horizon]

I've never had issues with 1v1s either, its just the moment one extra omni pops up pachy just dies and thats the frustrating part since omnis are almost always traveling with more omnis

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy having north east, the biggest hotspot for omnis doesnt help much either

Poor thing is getting beaten with a stick every update

[dawn falcon]

Yeah no

I don’t see a problem with the Herrera post. We can just push for Pachy buffs too.

Y’all are just some funny goobers

[slim dragon]

Power creep

[dusky surge]

pachy needs to be stronger too, but not because herrera being made busted

pachy needs to not get folded by most of its predatory equals like omni or dilo

[frail bobcat]

does it still get folded in ST?

[coarse blaze]

I have seen two separate mixpacks with omnis today because of the "stegs can't fight back" thing, it did not work for either group but that's so, so lame that it's being exploited so heavily.

Nearly died while drinking, a deino appeared and had a pesky troodon stalking me the whole time

[frail bobcat]

yeah, omni is funny

[dusky surge]

yea but it's okay because we all hate stego because they're OP

[coarse blaze]

It's so lame

I used to not want to kill troodons or omnis but now they're a genuine threat

There's not always something for me to backscratch on

[frail bobcat]

was talking to a guy yesterday that still thinks that stego is still op

they are a deino main

[coarse blaze]

Who would've thought

[eager saddle]

I just want the stun back. That’s all. It’s not even useful for a solo deino but I feel like a group of 5 apex predators should be able to take down a stego

That and due to the insane long undeep places means deinos get hit more

[coarse blaze]

Ceras, omni, solo deinos & troodons can all kill a single steg. You have to start the fight, they cannot chase and attack you.

You don't need apexes to kill a steg, normal creatures can already do that.

[lean summit]

Yesterday I played as a stego for the first time (first herby for that matter) and my god are they strong. Once they hit that 3.5ton zone, gg. Good luck killing one. Let alone a herd - which I was in. We locked down a lake and basically made the deinos starve to death (which is a good thing) - but still, I felt very much untouchable. What was left for me and the herd was to migrate on our infinitely full stomachs. That and keep an eye on the young one until they too become untouchable. Which they will. xD

[coarse blaze]

I promise you are not untouchable, people just aren't patient enough to kill you.

There are just easier things to go after so most folks just don't try it either, espiecally now with teno AI.

[lean summit]

If you mean that skilled players can essentially lay seige to you and play the LOOOOOOONG game in witteling you down. Sure. But sit back and relax cuz itll take some time xD

[coarse blaze]

It's not even that it's a skill thing it's a "not running head-first into a swing" sorta thing.

Which people just do for whatever reason

[golden coral]

I mean, if you have 3+ adult stegos that aren't baitable at all and know how to space themselves for defense, yeah sure, nothing short of another stego group can touch you all that much. That's sort of how large/apex critters would work. One rex or trike, you can take on, a pair, you're probably not going to have a good time with.

[lean summit]

Funny you mention the teno AI, as I sit here on Discord with an AI teno stuck in a corner waiting for my stomach to empty

[coarse blaze]

That's a pretty specific situation though to be frank, a group of 3 FG stegs would have to worry about hitting one another if they're huddled up anyhow but sure if they're all by a wall or something sure.

[golden coral]

Also for stego, one thing to keep in mind, even if your weight is high, your reach on the tail might not be. See stego juvie, it's tanky for it's size, but the tiny tail means you're not likely to hit much at all

[coarse blaze]

A lot of folks overestimate how far that swing goes, it's really not that far

[lean summit]

from what i was told yesterday from a stego main, you are basically usless and up for grabs vs anything until you reach 40%+

[golden coral]

Adult stego has good reach, but while growing, you're not quite as able as size/weight might suggest, people tend to forget reach is a factor too

[coarse blaze]

Yes they're very easy to pick off before 40% but at 40% it's less about being tanky and more so that they just hurt.

[golden coral]

It depends on what you're up against, I'd say at least. You're safe from carno a lot sooner than deino, and in theory at least safer from troodon before omni (current bugs aside) and so on

[coarse blaze]

Good reach yes but you have to be fairly close to get hit, I like to think of it as a tight circle around the steg in terms of it's range.

[coarse blaze]

Everything carnivore wise but PT will kill a steg under 40% fairly easily.

Once you hit that 4.1 tons most things just aren't going to go for you but they're still very much killable

[golden coral]

How large is stego at 40%?

[coarse blaze]

Not large

55% is just about fresh sub-adult iirc

[lean summit]

maybe about 2.5t? around there

[coarse blaze]

Yeah that sounds about right

Because hitting that 4.1 is the kicker but it's pretty late

[lean summit]

the right way to treat a stego - need me that drinking wall ':D

maybe a scratching post later. Maybe not.

[crisp kraken]

Hope the stego falls of the edge and breaks its legs

then gets eaten by deinos

[dusky surge]

i hope the stego walks down and kills 3 deinos

[latent bay]

I hope the stego labotomizes all deinos in that lake

[dusky surge]

based

[frail bobcat]

I hope the Stego gifts all the deinos a second mouth that has a direct connection to the brain

[lean summit]

XD

[latent bay]

If deino is a grappler class then stego is jumping off the top rope metal folding chair in hand

[distant torrent]

@weary glen just curious, what’s your reasoning for not wanting stego to be able to swing when it’s latched onto by an omni or troodon?

[coarse blaze]

#balance-feedback message Same guy

[golden coral]

Pretty sure the whole no alt/attack while pounced is a bug, it can't possibly be meant that you can entirely shut down a playable just by having something pounce it, no matter the size, damage, or anything

[distant torrent]

lmao

I’m very curious to hear his reason though

[coarse blaze]

I genuinely don't think you'll get an answer

[distant torrent]

probably won’t

[coarse blaze]

He downvotes anything anti-carnivore and pro-herbivore

[dusky surge]

He hates herbivores

[distant torrent]

it is time to end the herbivore discrimination

[coarse blaze]

I can't wait for dibble is get whined about

Or those people playing dilo and dying to carno/omni and then suddenly realizing that they're both incredibly strong

Omni will be able to pin FG dilo yeah? It's 700 kg and they can pin gali which weigh more (?)

[dusky surge]

no, they can't

[distant torrent]

omni can’t pin pachy though and it’s a 50 kg difference (i could be wrong)

[golden coral]

Galli weighs 400... something now. And I don't think omni pins dilo, I saw a vid and the omni was pouncing the dilo so

But apparently dilo bleeds like a carno or something, so might not need to pin it

[distant torrent]

are multiple dilos able to envenomate the same target?

[coarse blaze]

I thought gali weighed far more, something close to omnis weight

[distant torrent]

and do the hallucinations deal bleed, or do they just deal raw damage

[coarse blaze]

so it'll just bleed out most likely then yeah?

[dusky surge]

yes, but each dilo needs to envenomate seperately

[coarse blaze]

Thank God

I don't think they should be able to envenomate an already envenomated target honestly

makes sense but feels weird

[golden coral]

Probably, at least if it doesnt rest/wallow or something. Pounce does do quite the lethal bleed after all

[distant torrent]

same. it feels like venom stacking. if multiple can do it, then why can’t one do it?

[coarse blaze]

It's just weird, that's like someone being in phase 3 of troodon venom and suddenly another troodon can also try and put it into phase 3... while it's already in phase 3?

It just feels really weird

[distant torrent]

hallucination army

[coarse blaze]

No thanks

[fallow blaze]

Ok i try to understand. dilo Nr. 2 cannot increase the poison influence of dilo Nr. 1?

[wraith relic]

@vocal matrix just a reminder megalania is coming to the game

So I think that venom would fit Meg better than troodon

[dusky surge]

@balmy briar i'd rather regen be designed around the animal's unique kit than how heavy it is

[foggy elm]

@supple karma a galli is basically impossible to kill unless you ambush it. so no, galli having slow accell is a good thing.

[keen plover]

I think the acceleration is fine. Just place Galli diets in the open. South & NE plains for example

Imo the weight & stam cost on kick are the only 2 issues I have with Galli

Galli rn just feels a little too squishy. Especially dying in one pin. Pretty lame. Nerfing its mass & buffing pin sucks

[slim dragon]

Regarding the accel, it's not galli that needs a buff, carno needs a nerf

[balmy briar]

it makes sense tho

[dusky surge]

not really, no

[balmy briar]

enlighten me

[dusky surge]

niches exist. Not every creature should be adapted to faster stam regen simply for being small

[balmy briar]

i mean u just said it yourself those are niches, dont they get a unique design to begin with? if they are exceptions. Still doesnt take away my point that wide across the board this would instantly balance many dinosaurs (like almost all of them)

[dusky surge]

for example, the gallimimus. It runs 2x longer than most other creatures and thus has a long stam regen to compensate. It having the same stam as an omni would either make galli OP or omni weak

[balmy briar]

galli should be able to run, and not regen as long. And no way a omni would lose a 1v1 to a galli so it gets its toolkit wich is (running) , and if it decides to try and beat the omni with it, it will be pinned to the floor and re-assessing life-choices.

bad example imo

i was more thinking like small things that function uniquely , maybe something that is like a sloth or something , but idk the full roster and if they even will add such a thing

gali is only slightly lighter btw like 25kg?

so it would be around the same , but galli would get it back first, so it , as a prey item could escape a omni, see it make sense

[dusky surge]

id rather just keep stam regen per animal

rather than per weight

[dusky surge]

@steep warren good suggestion, i love the idea of helping your friend break free

[steep warren]

Ayy cheers, it's always so sad to see Dino's piling on a deino and it inadvertently leading to nothing: if anything, I've secured two or three more kills when herbis do that as a deino on low rule/official servers

[halcyon granite]

did they say why they removed the stego swing while latched ?

[slim dragon]

Yeah
That's because of a bug

[vague steeple]

I feel like the tail swing against small targets on the Stego is a bit much. At least vs Troodon, the idea that the Stego could swing the tail with enough fidelity to not injure themselves is hard to believe.

Now, if it was a separate attack that prys and flicks the Troodon off without the massive damage of its typical attack would be better. It shouldn’t be damage free, but it also shouldn’t be the one-shot kill it is.

[slim dragon]

It's not about being able to swing at opponents when they're latched
That was never a thing

Currently when a stego is being pounced it cannot use its tail swing at all

[vague steeple]

I don’t have a problem with this, I’ve always felt the tail swing against pounced opponents was questionable, if not outright BS.

Scraping them off, going into water, even a desperate flop to pancake them underneath are better choices than a swing massive spikes with force into one’s own flanks.

[golden coral]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Stego has no attack to "pry" things off, troodon or omni. It should have though, more of a "sweep" than a jab that would rake them off. But even if that attack was less damaging, there's no way it wouldn't oneshot a troodon. Troodon is tiny after all. But I could see it maybe only putting an omni on deaths door but not outright killing it, if it someone wouldn't be okay for the attack to oneshot even a troodon.

[golden coral]

You... don't have a problem with stego being unable to attack at all while it's being pounced?

[vague steeple]

I have no problem with it being unable to attack the pouncer with a tail swing.

As mechanic, the tail shouldn’t be able to attack the pouncer while attached. That could mean reducing the arc of the hit box, giving the pouncer invulnerability to the tail swing attack, etc.

Prying a troodon off with the tail should be more of a push back style attack in prying them off. Very low damage, but has the benefit of potentially knocking down/stumbling the pouncer(this could be stamina based for the pouncer to avoid this and allow them to land while maintaining footing)…thus providing an opening/opportunity for the Stego to go on the attack while the thrown pouncer seeks to recover from being thrown…just like bucking.

[slim dragon]

That's not the issue we're talking about

[vague steeple]

I’m arguing that the problem lends itself to be a well developed mechanic. That in solving the bug, they can seek to better flesh out and balance the mechanics of pouncing and pounce-countering with Stego.

[slim dragon]

Again, stego was never able to attack enemies latched on its side

[vague steeple]

That’s not my experience, but perhaps that was latency issues. I’ve felt I was hit by Stego tail attacks while pounced.

[golden coral]

It never had that ability, so that's not the issue. Though I disagree, stego would be one of the few that should be able to hit a pouncer, precisely due to the tail reach and flexibiltiy. This would also fit with stego being a terrible choice for pouncers to attack. Also why are we even talking about troodon, by all rights troodon should not attack stego, at all. Since you know, massive weight difference and all that. But that is more so down to how bad stego and it's attacks are designed that allows troodon to even try stegos.

What you're talking about otherwise just sounds like bucking, making that more powerful and a proper counter, for all playables. Since it already puts the pouncer at risk of being knocked if they run out of stamina. Could just make bucking more powerful in general, maybe add a damage aspect to it for stego as it also uses it's tail to "scrape" at the pouncers. This would make for stego bucking to be a bit better than most others, which would be interesting. Kills troodons outright, makes omnis decently hurt if they insist on holding on.

[golden coral]

Well, that'd be some kind of latency or so then yes, because outside of bugs, stego can not hit something pounced on it. Anyway, it's not the current bug/issue. As of right now, if a stego is pounced, even by a juvie troodon, it can not use the tail attack at all.

Which means, you can have your juvie troodon pounce the stego and then facetank it with a carno or cera, or other such funny combos and situations.

And that is what the feedback is about.

[neon willow]

what they mean when they say the stego can't use its tail swing is that the stego cannot swing his tail in any capacity if he has a troodon or utah latched to him. I.e. not even to hit other dinosaurs nearby that are NOT latched. Which is a problem, because that means 1 troodon can disable a stego and make it defenseless. Sure its reasonable to not be able to spike the dino that's hitching a ride, but stego cannot spike other dinosaurs who come in to attack if he has a passenger, which is broken

[coarse blaze]

No no, I thought it was super fair to be pounced by a troodon that was following me around while I was drinking so that when I was jumped by a deino I wasn't able to defend myself. It's really balanced actually. 👍

[slim dragon]

@silver hatch with a headshot yes

[silver hatch]

Damn seems a bit too much.. I feel like it should get you very low h.p but not one shot

[slim dragon]

Bruh it's a thagomizer direct hit into your skull
What do you expect ?

[silver hatch]

but you could say the same when a cerra full charges the stegs head correct? like the stegs head is small so it should be one shot by a apex predator biting it's head surely

[slim dragon]

No ?
Realistically yes maybe, but then cera would also be oneshot by a body hit

[final kite]

just got killed in 2 swings from a fresh spawn steg as a full grown cera

[dusky surge]

lmao

[final kite]

https://tenor.com/view/stegosaurus-steg-stego-stegosaur-meme-gif-26992376

[slim dragon]

Stego is big and has a lot of health, but also takes more damage than any other creature when hit on the head
So your wish is granted, in a way that retains some form of balance

[final kite]

Doesn't really matter, more weight= more hp, stego weighs the most so 10 hits to the head wont do anything

[slim dragon]

10 hits to the head would kill it if it's charged bites

[final kite]

yeh good luck with that, combined with the most broken hitboxes I have ever seen in a game and an unrealistic tail attack makes it impossible for anything to kill them

[slim dragon]

Or rather leave it with something like 1 hp because of constant hp regen

[final kite]

You sound a lot like a steg main

Steg also has a massive bleed resist

[slim dragon]

Stegos can be killed by 2 omnis, 2 troodons, 2 deinos or 2 ceras

[slim dragon]

Nah, it has none

[final kite]

Def does

[slim dragon]

source ?

[final kite]

Ur mums gym locker

[slim dragon]

nice

Not a very good argument tho tbh

[final kite]

If you are sitting here trying to defend the steg, you obviously main the steg.

[dusky surge]

it has zero bleed resist. It just has a high blood pool on account of being big

[final kite]

It is broken in every way

[dusky surge]

i cant stand the steg, but it is nowhere near strong lol. I don't play it because it's such ass to play lol

[slim dragon]

Let me guess, you're very bad at deductive thought ?

[final kite]

🤓 "deductive thought"

[slim dragon]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions

[final kite]

It isnt word of the week in ur year 10 english class buddy dont need to try to be smart

[dusky surge]

my man really mad in the isle balance feedback discussion

[final kite]

Im fuming

[dusky surge]

someone uses a word more than two syllables and all hell breaks loose lmao

[coarse blaze]

I think you underestimate just how small cera is compared to a FG steg.

[slim dragon]

I can try using simpler words if that makes you more at ease tho

[final kite]

Yeh please it will drop my blood pressure because i am mega fuming

White knight discord mod vibes

Very weird dude

🤓 this you bro

[slim dragon]

why you be anger ?

[dusky surge]

the virtual animal awakens the very real beast

[silver hatch]

Having a dino that can one shot just creates an environment where no one wants to go near it because they'll get one tapped, if you could survive 1 shot that would incentivise people to actually try fight a steg, most people just avoid them because they are just too strong it is a game after all I feel nothing should be able to 1 shot i.m.o

[dusky surge]

deinosuchus

[final kite]

Thats a joke

[coarse blaze]

Ceras, omni, troodon and deino not to mention other stegs all can kill stegs.

[slim dragon]

You can survive one shot
Just not to the head when you're about 1/5th of the size of the animal you're trying to attack

[silver hatch]

we just watched 5 dino's try fight 1 steg..was a slaughter

[final kite]

We legit just watched a fg steg kill 3 crocs in 1 battle

[silver hatch]

all 5 dead

[coarse blaze]

I hate to say skill issue on their part but

[dusky surge]

okay but like

the deinosuchus relies primarily on one shots lol

[coarse blaze]

It kinda is

[coarse blaze]

Nuh uh that's different

[dusky surge]

also removing one shots means, what, a rex can't kill a troodon because one shots bad?

[coarse blaze]

The troodon needs a way to kill the rex clearly

[silver hatch]

steg went for a drink they got the jump on the steg still lost

[coarse blaze]

Otherwise it's not fair

[slim dragon]

Also uh... if nothing could one-shot... does that mean every attack should be reduced to 19 damage so nothing can be oneshot ? Since hypsi only has 20 hp and it'd feel bad if it was oneshot

[final kite]

Not the point you melon heads

[dusky surge]

how the hell do 5 deinos lose that

2 deinos can easily take a solo stego

[final kite]

Completely missed the point\

[slim dragon]

explain better then

[coarse blaze]

One deino can kill a steg pretty easy too if they're aware that you can you know - just chase the head and so long as the steg keeps moving away it can't swing.

[dusky surge]

that too

[coarse blaze]

People really love to just run at it and hope something works out

[final kite]

You sound like people

[slim dragon]

impossible

We're all AIs

[final kite]

There he goes again

Are you by any chance acoustic?

[dusky surge]

LMAO

[slim dragon]

Wait what was the complicated word I used this time ?

Is "complicated" a complicated word for you ?

[final kite]

Naw you just being u 💀

[silver hatch]

You didn't witness it? we play a lot we didn't just brainlessly charge into them neither did the crocs we actually thought the crocs played it pretty well stalked the steg ponced from the water multipul crocs got good bites in then it just smashed them all

[coarse blaze]

Headshots matter a good deal

Deinos can always just go back into the water

[slim dragon]

Also if a lot of deinos pile up on one stego there's a good chance they're gonna bite each other instead of biting the steg

[final kite]

does typing like this make me important

[coarse blaze]

And they can bite normally without losing any stam while the steg needs stamina for every swing, they were just bad deinos.

[dusky surge]

i genuinely can't imagine a stego winning that unless the 5 deinosuchuses was just making blunder after blunder. I have killed so many stegos as a solo or duo deino and won (which sucks because i primarily do it as a suicide play to get rid of my deino when i get bored)

[coarse blaze]

They basically did the equivalent of "spray and pray" and died

[dusky surge]

the classic "we ball" strategy

[silver hatch]

The bite force of Deinosuchus has been estimated to be 18,000 N (1,835 kgf; 4,047 lbf) I feel like if we're going off realism the jaws of this apex predator should also crush the small skull in 1 shot of a steg

[coarse blaze]

Man went to the wiki I think

[dusky surge]

if we're going off realism, a giant bone spike in the deino's brain should kill it in one strike

but that's no fun for either party

[coarse blaze]

Realism aside it's a video game, we have in-game stats to go off of.

[slim dragon]

Finally
The realism argument
But then a stego's tail jab should also oneshot pretty much anything to the head, including a deino

[dusky surge]

stego should hit the deino once in a vital organ and the deino would stop moving. realism goes both ways

[coarse blaze]

If it lives it should be blinded because it had a rail-spike go through it's head.

[silver hatch]

Yeah I wouldn't mind being 1 shot If I also had the capability of one shotting it back

[mint star]

flip the coin

[keen plover]

horrible gameplay

[coarse blaze]

It's the "but how will the deer fight back against the bear???" thing that Dondi brought up

not everything needs to fight everything, not everything needs a way out

A cera running up to a steg by itself and dying makes 100% sense

[slim dragon]

So you changed your mind on one-shots ?

[dusky surge]

lmao

from "one shots shouldn't exist" to "everything should be able to one shot if its realistic"

[coarse blaze]

Steg can 1-tap omni but omni has no way to 1-tap steg?? Super OP bad game.

[slim dragon]

I mean it's okay to change opinion on something

[silver hatch]

we're just discussing I'm just talking about how I feel and few changes that could make it a bit more fun thats all?

[slim dragon]

I don't think the deino/stego matchup needs changing

Unless deino is massively reworked into an interesting playable

[coarse blaze]

Like that'll happen, not until there's more in the water for sure.

[dusky surge]

i mean, both deino and stego are getting reworks. Stego is getting some actual versatility, which is wonderful

[coarse blaze]

If only it'd stay on officials

[dusky surge]

i love a "combat-based animal" having one viable attack

stego is basically designed as a goddamn legacy animal tbh

the only thing that makes him more complex is he can aim his strike, but even that has an unnecessary tradeoff with animation times

[keen plover]

How would a deino 1 shot a Stego without one shotting anything else in its size range

Like headshot bite?

[frail bobcat]

Wtf did I just read through?

[dusky surge]

which implies 3000 damage off a bite from deinosuchus lol

[frail bobcat]

Balanced

[slim dragon]

I can explain it to you with simple words if you want

[keen plover]

Wait 5 deinos lost to 1 Stego 💀

[frail bobcat]

Not more than one syllable please

[dusky surge]

apparently

[slim dragon]

The Isle

[dusky surge]

you did it wrong

[slim dragon]

[keen plover]

Tbf I’ve fought like 8 as a Stego and won but tbf skill issue on their part

[dusky surge]

yea, legit. Deino players aren't... good generally

once you get to a "one button does it all" playstyle, any combat that requires more thought than that becomes a challenge lol

deinosuchus is a goddamn skill vaccuum tbh

[keen plover]

2 can easily kill confirm 1 as long as they don’t chase it far on land lol. If the stego runs it lives but if it stays by water it dies. Seems fair

[dusky surge]

there is little to no skill expression in deino's gameplay, which won't change unless its kit rework gives it more options in seperate types of combat

and makes it less of a "one button does it all" animal

[frail bobcat]

Well, you cant fly with that button

[coarse blaze]

Deino's gameplay is something I wanted to practice deino v deino until I learned it's... It's really just whoever bites the head first if they're just tanking eachother

It's not very engaging or a lot of thought

[ashen frigate]

To be fair dude, if you think it's that viable, then show us you killing a Stego.

[dusky surge]

i have a deino, but i cant find stegos for the life of me. I'll fight one when i get the chance and hopefully it'll kill me

its not easy to kill a stego, but its nowhere near impossible

[ashen frigate]

Alright

[dusky surge]

all stego has going for it is damage

[ashen frigate]

I've tried the technique of chasing the head but I ran out of stamina and couldn't get back into the water leading to me dying

[dusky surge]

which is why its always better to have two. It's an uphill battle as a solo deino, and relies on many mistakes from the stego

[ashen frigate]

Finding a good deino partner is like finding a needle in a haystack

[dusky surge]

with two deinos, its easily deino sided (if the deinos are competent and the stego becomes overconfident). Many times, stegos will die to two deinos because they believe the fallacy that stego can kill any number of deinos

[ashen frigate]

True

[distant torrent]

(because deino is so low skill that even the most terrible of players can play it successfully)

[dusky surge]

the reason stego is so successful is generally because deino players literally do not know how to fight. The amount of deinos i've seen fruitlessly facetank me with lunge is nuts

[distant torrent]

a friend of mine who’s mostly new prefers playing deino because that’s the only thing he doesn’t starve as

[ashen frigate]

Because it's an "apex" after all

[dusky surge]

no, it being an apex has nothing to do with it

[ashen frigate]

Hm

[dusky surge]

stego is also an apex, yet it is significantly harder to grow than deino

[ashen frigate]

Presumably because it's a herbivore

[dusky surge]

no

[ashen frigate]

No?

[slim dragon]

presumably because it's bad

[ashen frigate]

Lol

[distant torrent]

stego has more playables that can delete it. deino just has other deinos unless they’re not very smart while on land

[dusky surge]

deino possesses traits such as

• a very wide diet, containing basically all playables, as well as the ability to eat rot and bones
• an easily renewable and uncontested AI food source with fish
• one of the slowest hunger drains in the game
• extremely high health, resistances and damage, making it unapproachable to most of the roster even at a smaller size
• diving, allowing it to entirely disengage from anything that may pose a threat to it without any way for the other creature to follow up

[ashen frigate]

That's only when Stego is below sub adult

[ashen frigate]

Carnivore bias be like:

Herbivores barely get as much interesting mechanics compared to carnivores

[tall bronze]

It's getting that kit rework for a reason

[ashen frigate]

Soon™

[distant torrent]

adult too. omnis and troodons can exploit the fact steg can’t swing at all while it’s latched onto. deino pairs can also kill it. three or four if.. the deinos really don’t know what they’re doing. at least then they can just tank it lol

[ashen frigate]

Oh I guess that's now a problem because omnis can stay pounced longer, right?

[distant torrent]

tenos can even kill stego. I’ve done it, but I unfortunately took a few bs hits from far away. probably from either my or the stego’s ping

[ashen frigate]

Rip

[distant torrent]

yep

[ashen frigate]

That's unfortunate

[old mantle]

Man.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message
It's incredible how tenonto has had its damage nerfed for basically 3 updates in a row, has less damaging attacks than cera and carno's most damaging attacks, has its combo ability massively reduced, and its still not enough.

people will not rest until tenonto is playable food

[old mantle]

i think you need to take a step back and read the comment in full.
three carnos died to a solo tenonto.

that is the reason this post was made.

[dusky surge]

wha

how

how in our Lord God's good, gracious and holy name did THREE carnotaurus face off against a single tenonto and all lose

This is next level Isle player moment

[cosmic pelican]

Its genuenly hard to lose that, playing that bad requires skill

[old mantle]

i'm pretty sure they can take turns facetanking its kick and still win, or close to it.

[cosmic pelican]

2 carnos already can

[dusky surge]

like i know i've said "haha carnivore mains are bad at the game" but like

god

this is coming from a man who mains goddamn TROODON

[cosmic pelican]

Troodon is so underrated tbh

[dusky surge]

if the carnos literally just stood on the tenonto and bit it it would die

like all 3 of them just stood still and bit the tenonto in a big group

you actively have to be making insane mistakes to lose that matchup

im actually trying to process any line of reasoning that would result in this outcome

[slim dragon]

Remember that one feedback that mentioned 12 deinos dying to one stego ?

[dusky surge]

in order for this to happen, the carnos would have had to

• ignored any form of communication or plan making at all
• either never hit the charge or just never capitalise on it
• just... forget to press buttons on the keyboard and mouse
• have absolutely zero coordination and just kinda all be moving independently

like this is beyond bizarre

[dusky surge]

frankly that stego should have a goddamn statue erected in its honour

[frail bobcat]

I reckon three toddler could kill a teno using adult carnos

WHAT were those guys doing

[old mantle]

clearly they just don't understand how interactive carnotaurus gameplay is.

[frail bobcat]

Let push them down the stairs to show them

[tropic horizon]

@kindred zinc are you being serious with that? 2 raptors trash pachy with nothing the pachy can do to fight back 9 times out of 10. Pachy is straight up garbage in this update so idk why you’re complaining about it

[slim dragon]

Friendly reminder that if pachy gets pounced and bucks for its entire duration, it is left with only enough health to die to 1 bite

[kindred zinc]

Its about that Pachys are teaming up with the carnos. Go on Eu 2 Its full of them. You straight up get molled by a Pachy as a utah.

[gleaming steeple]

@kindred zinc Pachy is not op rn, he has a broken charged attack

[slim dragon]

If pachys are dangerous with carnos... maybe the problem is that carno is OP, not pachy

[kindred zinc]

They just ram into the utahs and then get out and wait till the carnos kill them.

[kindred zinc]

The Problem is just the mixpacking

But there is no fix to that 😦

[slim dragon]

But it's not something that can be fixed
And especially not by nerfing pachy

[golden coral]

Or just mixing in general really

[gleaming steeple]

go to the server where there are rules, what's the problem

[odd veldt]

i suck at pvp but i have been absolutely destroyed by pachys several times. a single pachy slaughtered at least 5 raptors i was with a week ago lmao

[golden coral]

But that's not a valid reason to balance, I don't think we balance based on mixing, if so, we'd have to rebalance a lot probably

[kindred zinc]

Finally someone who understands

[white atlas]

Mixpacking will always be a problem, See, pachys are strong but others are too like stegos they can one/two hit many things when they hit good, but in the end if they get nerfed it would only affect the solo players who can't benefit form their strenghts

[kindred zinc]

Well i agree, the problem is that the pachys are chasing you through the map wanting you to be killed. As a utah ofc you ran out of stam and you just face your death. A stego cant keep up with you thats why its balanced.

you gotta see it with your own eyes. Its crazy

[frail bobcat]

2 omnis wipe the floor with a pachy

[white atlas]

I see, what you mean, but raptors can escape on rocks, or higher positions and I had not that much problems with the jump over attacker and hide in undergrowth tactics

[kindred zinc]

Dayum fr ? Just yesterday a single pachy jumped on the bridge and slaughtered 3 Adult Utahs

[frail bobcat]

you can pounce a pachy and it cant do anything

the others are just free to bite it

[kindred zinc]

Thats true

[frail bobcat]

so why do pachys need to be nerfed again?

[white atlas]

Comes to the Raptor player, a good Raptor can kill a Pachy easily, I play much Utah and most likely just Jump over them and use the time they need to run away, or escape on higher places and escape from there

[tropic horizon]

Then run from the Pachy’s

Problem solved

[kindred zinc]

I just died cuz of that, i was almost full stam running from a pachy, i ran out and he caught up to me and slammed me.

Bro Teabagging me after that 💀

[tropic horizon]

I mean unless you’re in a barren wasteland without a forest you could’ve ran to the forest where it’s impossible to track you

[white atlas]

Sometimes its just Bad luck, but if all pachys would always kill every Raptor the there were more people upset

[kindred zinc]

I dont know the stats from the pachys do they have lots of stam ?

[tropic horizon]

They have the same stam as Omni

[shadow vortex]

If you didn't run in a straight line and used bushes to your advantage that was a cheater probs. Sadly admins rarely observe officials

[kindred zinc]

Well then it was bad luck i guess

[tropic horizon]

Yeah it’s like that sometimes, sorry bout that

[kindred zinc]

Still sad to see that Eu2 is full of mixpacking. I will change servers tho

[tropic horizon]

Best of luck

[white atlas]

Eu4 and Eu7 is nice

[frail bobcat]

petit pieds is a good server

[kindred zinc]

For sure ! i will look into that

[white atlas]

My tactic is jumping over them and running in other direction, only works when you see them tho

[kindred zinc]

will def try that

[white atlas]

Good luck, sometimes its buggy or fps drops Ruin it tho

[kindred zinc]

Thanks 🙂

[white atlas]

Raptors gotta Stick together These days ;)

[hollow canyon]

if that update, with Teno's attacks making it invulnerable to Carno's charge, went live then it would be very much doable, not very easy but doable to a good Teno, if that's not a thing Carno's were most likely struggling with their demons during the whole fight

having said that 1v2ing Carnos as a Teno was very much doable and not even hard in the past

if that update is live then it wouldn't be that big of a shock for a Teno to win that

[halcyon granite]

why dont you go on a community server like petit pieds ?

[dusky surge]

@compact bolt the size of the animal doesn't dictate its pack size. Dilo is designed to be a more soiltary hunter, so it has a smaller pack size

[distant torrent]

can’t wait to have my pachy swarmed by a mob of dilos it can’t even get away from

[tropic horizon]

Me neither, pachy needs to pay for its sins1!1!!1!1!1

Pachy is just a corpse being beaten with a warhammer of nerfs right now

[distant torrent]

yep

[slim dragon]

New Isle expression to describe something pointless : Beating a dead pachy

[halcyon elk]

I do feel bad for pachy

[shadow vortex]

@thick echo can you send a link to the stream recording if you have it please? Can't find any on Youtube. Though nerf to a herra sounds like meh :/ It was already pretty much balanced bruv

[thick echo]

I sadly don't have any stream recording links as of this moment. Though I'm pretty sure some Isle News channel will clip the important bits of today's stream and upload them

[shadow vortex]

I see, thank you. Was hoping Sapphire Ceratosaurus already did that, but sadly last stream recording on that channel was 11 days ago x) Well hope devs will come around eventually and won't make herrera an another 'spectator' dinosaur even for other juveniles...

[thick echo]

yeah here's hoping they atleast let it take down larger small tiers and juvies

[sinful sky]

Herrera’s going to get a speed nerf? Why 💀

[dusky surge]

@weary glen the devs have explained why dilo isn't getting a jump, and it's due to its ability. The ability to climb out of range of attackers and spam hallucinations without consequence is something the devs don't want

[weary glen]

Nah, he could still get a small hop. Being so locked is weird

[dusky surge]

Even a small hop would allow it to get to places where others can't follow. Dilo already has amazing speed, damage and stamina, it doesn't really need a jump anymore, since its kit is perfectly fine without one

[coarse blaze]

Not to mention it's almost like teno have 2 extra legs and aren't built like therapods.

I'm not sure why there's such an obsession with letting mid-tier therapods like ceras, carnos and now dilo jumping.

[weary glen]

every small and mid tier whose physic allows for a jump or even a small hop should get one

[slim dragon]

Not if it harms balance

[coarse blaze]

If a carno jumped it literally can't catch itself if it were to lose it's footing

[weary glen]

Yeah, like balance now is perfect and it will get ruined from this.. seriously

[slim dragon]

It doesn't need to be ruined even more

[weary glen]

Maybe it can help it get better though

[coarse blaze]

It wouldn't

[slim dragon]

I don't understand the argument of "game isn't balanced so let's make it worse"

[dusky surge]

dilo is said to be pretty balanced, on the cusp of being too strong. A jump would make it worse

[coarse blaze]

I do think the copies should be maybe alittle less DMG

or have a longer cooldown on it's spawning

But we won't know I guess really until it's actually public and people have time to play it, it's at least pretty squishy.

[weary glen]

If u wanna nerf copies just apply a damage over time, but none wants that

[coarse blaze]

The venom already spawns passive copies, it doesn't need DOT either.

[weary glen]

It needs it if u gonna lower dmg of copies.. in other words, it doesn't need nerf cause it's fine

[golden coral]

The interactive venom is good, so they should keep that. Can look at either the clones or venom if changes are needed. More/less speed or damage, venom being easier/harder to apply and so on.

[coarse blaze]

Don't make me tap the sign

[weary glen]

Dilo packs will get rekt from pack of everything else

[golden coral]

Doubt it

[coarse blaze]

I think the interactive venom will be what makes the playable interesting

[golden coral]

At least carno is apparently getting nerfed, so there's that

[coarse blaze]

I'm personally not super hyped for dilo myself but I know it'll be a fan favorite, carno I think will kill a fair few dilo

and I think teno will likely fairly ok against it

Actually no, I think teno will be fine with it if it's just 700kg

[weary glen]

Dilo can hunt only lone species, it's design doesn't help with pack fights. Legacy was okay cause of the massive bleed

[coarse blaze]

Not every pack species stays in a pack

or even finds a pack, you'll find lone species just fine.

[golden coral]

Except the venom makes it impossible for any pack/herd member to help, so while dilo isn't really a pack animal, it can take on larger groups in some ways

But dilo does not seem to be pack oriented, just capable of going after things in groups due to shadow clones

[weary glen]

Needs more testing but I say it as a general rule

[golden coral]

Well, dilo doesn't need to be able to handle packs, it's nocturnal, it has the advantage there

[sinful sky]

Man I just want the damn tree lizard dino to not be too slow to catch the deer it relies on pFFT

[slim dragon]

You can jump on them from the trees
That's kinda what you're supposed to do

[sinful sky]

What about when they run out into the open where there’s no trees?

[slim dragon]

Then pick another target

[sinful sky]

Right, because AI is so clustered together

[slim dragon]

I don't see your issue with it
That's the same thing with every carnivore

Should omni be given a higher swimming speed so it can catch beipis trying to flee in the water ?

[sinful sky]

No? That has nothing to do with what I’m saying.

[slim dragon]

Herrera hunts in the trees because it's arboreal
If something is far away from any tree, your chances of catching it are slim
Omni hunts on land
If something is in water, your chances of catching it are slim

[dusky surge]

it literally does spawn in small herds now so ironically that is true

[sinful sky]

That’s… why I said it. I wasn’t being ironic. ._.

[frail bobcat]

Just dropkick them by jumping from the shore. Worked for me, I felt very cool after it

[sinful sky]

Also, if you could ambush from the trees and the prey is one shot, I’d agree. But it isn’t. From the stress test it seems deer would take at least two aerial ambushes to take down. It’s hard to see how you can kill something if you hit it once but then it runs off?

[slim dragon]

It depends on the height you jump off from

[sinful sky]

You can one shot a deer if you jump from high enough?

[slim dragon]

Most likely
Since Dondi said Herrera can almost oneshot an omni, it should be able to oneshot a deer easily

[sinful sky]

Would it be just before the threshold where you fracture a leg?

[slim dragon]

I don't know I haven't played Herrera

But I don't think it would be that much

[sinful sky]

I’d hope so. It’d be a bit silly to have the one shot ability be at the cost of breaking your bones x’D.

[slim dragon]

Unless deers are grossly oversized, I wouldn't assume they have much more than 80 hp
Which is less than a dryo

[sinful sky]

It’d also be silly for an Omni to have less health than a deer yea

[slim dragon]

Omni has 450 hp

[sinful sky]

So in that case the deer should be one tap

[slim dragon]

yes

[sinful sky]

Alr, well ty for the info! How it was initially formatted and with the limited information it sounded like Herrera getting any kills would be rough. Granted they probably could scavenge but that comes with its own risks.

[halcyon elk]

BY THE GODS THEYVE DONE IT.

CARNO IS GETTING NERFED @slim dragon

[slim dragon]

I know
I've been reading Isle discussion for the past 6 hours

[halcyon elk]

How flabbergasted are you?

[slim dragon]

I am finally at peace

[halcyon elk]

Now all that is left is omni

[slim dragon]

hope is permitted

[dusky surge]

apparently buck stam damage was increased heavily

[halcyon elk]

YEEEEEES

[latent bay]

Which ways

How

Will teno become viable

Will I no longer need to eat rot and die as cera

[tropic horizon]

All the annoying stuff is finally being removed…

[latent bay]

Is this the good ending finally

[halcyon elk]

Carno charge damage nerfed
Possible knowdown weight range nerfed
Carno having to run a bit before charging

[latent bay]

We take that we absolutely take that

[dusky surge]

thank god they're making AI infuriating to compensate

[latent bay]

Wdym

[halcyon elk]

Also from STers. Cera is incredibly good on bodies now.

[dusky surge]

AI spawns around players now, not around the map from what I've seen

so the further you are from hotspots, the further you are from AI

the bigger your megapack, the more AI that spawns

[latent bay]

I'll take that too, but isn't that what already happens?

[halcyon elk]

Yea but now carno can't nuke you to oblivion.

[latent bay]

...that's stupid

[latent bay]

I'll take it

I'm now skeptical on whether or not I'll switch mains to herrera, considering cerato might actually not be a chore to play anymore

[halcyon elk]

Also bucking is getting increased again. Meaning that Omni can't stay on for long it originally could

[latent bay]

Omniraptor needs more changes than that, but it's a start

Also kinda cucks troo but hey troo got cucked on spawn

[halcyon elk]

I'm just glad that when diablo gets in carno will probably not have a good time

[latent bay]

Carno shouldn't ever interact with a Dibble if it knows what's good for it lol

Dibble should only die to 3 carnos and that should be the jumping of the century

Like perfect ambush typa thing

[coarse blaze]

pspspsps what about it is getting nerfed? I have not caught up

[halcyon elk]

Carno charge damage
Possible knockdown weight range
Increased Time carno takes to activate charge

[coarse blaze]

Where was this all put out, was there more info on anything else? That's a big change in things for carno

[halcyon elk]

Dondi stream

[coarse blaze]

Ah that would be why I missed it, fingers crossed

[halcyon elk]

Also buck stamina damage is maybe getting increased

[coarse blaze]

👀 I don't wanna hope too much but -

[halcyon granite]

lol looks like you been hurt a many a times

[distant torrent]

it’s genuinely not fun when your entire existence is invalidated if you’re spotted by 2 or more carnos, and you don’t have a rock you can jump on

you aren’t dodging if they’re not smooth brained, and you’re certainly not running

words genuinely cannot express how excited I am for this update now

[halcyon elk]

Btw 3-4 carno charges take you down to yellow as a cera no body.

[distant torrent]

BLESS

I love the devs

[halcyon granite]

hahah yea i know, im one the people that enjoy this overpowered cow, also know how it is when you play against it, and its complete crap rn lol

[slim dragon]

I tried to play cera today and was spotted by a carno when I was a juvie
Since there was no forest to run to nearby I was like "Oh well, might as well try fighting back, who knows he could feel like it's not worth it"
We traded a few bites (normal VS charged) then he charged me
I dodged
Hit on my tail
I'm stunned, then he finishes me off with a bite

And I was like
"Well, that's not like I was expecting it to end any better"

[distant torrent]

it’s fun to play as but it’s not fun to be on the receiving end lol

[halcyon granite]

Imo the charge does to much dmg and is charged to quickly, i really wonder how they will try and balance it next

[halcyon elk]

Oh boi do I have news for you.

[halcyon granite]

just hope it not gonna be to underwhelming than

[slim dragon]

They reduced its damage and made it so you can't instant charge in ST

[halcyon granite]

weiii that sounds nice, but how bad is it for carno now ?

[halcyon elk]

Not all too bad, it can still run away if necessary.

[halcyon granite]

the teno or the carno you mean ? Figuring this is the match up you had in mind

[halcyon elk]

The carno.

[distant torrent]

I took a peek in another channel and it’s 160 ish damage down from a previous 350?

[halcyon granite]

ok thats actually reasonable

[halcyon elk]

If it can't handle the fight it can just leave the fight

[halcyon granite]

yeah i dunno with all the stam changes its really difficult to give up a hunt these days

at least for me

now they just need to fix up the interaction with an animation of a carno colliding with the dino and knocking it down and stoping me in place

[golden coral]

Where are you getting this from?

[distant torrent]

#general-feedback-discussion message

[golden coral]

@halcyon elkWhere are you getting carno charge damage values from?

[halcyon elk]

A STer from the Antigua server said that 3-4 carno charges take cera down to yellow health.

[latent bay]

I just did 1300 (ceras health) divided by half (yellow is roughly half health) and them divided by 4 for the amount of charges

Got precisely 162 but simplified it to 160 for the sake of simplicity

[golden coral]

Ah, okay then

[latent bay]

If 2 carno charges is all the carno needs then it's roughly 216 damage

[shadow vortex]

Did they lower the stamina drain for charges tho?

[latent bay]

Beats me

[latent bay]

@halcyon elk

[foggy elm]

hopefully no

[halcyon elk]

I don't think so

[shadow vortex]

Ow

[frail bobcat]

<@&933486433342222376> I dont want free money

[halcyon granite]

dfuq

[frail bobcat]

There was a scam link and I reported it

[halcyon granite]

so no free monies ?

https://tenor.com/view/的9-gif-27299608

[desert wasp]

Venom fog from dilo's bite takes too long to go away...

[distant torrent]

yea dilo’s venom honestly lasts way too long

imo, it shouldn’t even be lasting half of what it currently does

the max it should last should be a minute

[graceful tree]

but, it should be stackable.

[distant torrent]

nah, it doesn’t need to be

[golden coral]

@balmy briar Maybe they changed the drop from above because well, that's herreras thing. Raptors aren't meant to be attacking from trees I'm pretty sure.

[dawn falcon]

This

It should be required to constantly reapply the venom to keep it going

[balmy briar]

maybe but the result looks dumb and not immersive, you bounce off, (dont take fall dmg btw ;D so that still works ironic enough)

i think its a bug, from implementing the front/back checks

cuz it does what the front/back does, and u do a claw attack. While u land on its backside and could easily slide into any of the 2 flanks and transition it into a pounce

if they add a "anim" for what happens if u pounce fromt he top , it could work

[golden coral]

True, I don't mind if it can be done, but I also don't really see a need for it, you have the upwards/downwards attacks now anyway

So just drop/kick as it were

[balmy briar]

i do see a need for it, as the alternative looks silly and limits my creativity

[golden coral]

You don't like the new attack then? xD

[balmy briar]

what u rather have, a omni dropping on a target pouncing, and actually see some transition animations, or see it pounce, bump off like its a ball touching a basketball court and just then ... idk? bump off xD ?

the new attack isnt useful in all scenarios

and i highly recommend u dont do that from a tree

unless u dont mind ur bones breaking, the pouncing on someone worked cuz u attached to something and it cushions you

(wich it still does atm, so thats not my gripe here)

[golden coral]

Fair, just figured that new attack would be for situations like that, rather than using the pounce

Though landing on the back could be made to just replace you on either flank, that would work yes

But maybe omnis shouldn't be up in trees anyway xD

[alpine plover]

@shrewd zodiac referring to ur post first off a omni weighs more than a dilo at ab 1200 ish I believe and dilo is 700 2nd off maybe the omni player was just bad bc I’ve seen a omni 2v1 2 dilos and win and I’ve seen 1 dilo 2v1 omnis and win maybe it’s more the player the only thing I agree with wit dilo is venom shouldn’t last 10 mins maybe like 2 or 3 mins but it’s stacks after each bite so if u get bit 20 times maybe it should last that long but other than that dilo is perfectly balanced if anything maybe needs a weight buff a little for health

[dusky surge]

omni weighs 450kg, dilo weighs 700kg, idk where you got 1200 from

[alpine plover]

It use to weigh 1200 or 1000 when they change it

[dusky surge]

that was legacy. Literally over 3 years ago

[alpine plover]

Even still I don’t think it is broken

[dusky surge]

lmao

it doesn't need a buff to health at all though, that's just mad

[alpine plover]

I think it’s pretty balanced tho it is 2 times the size of a omni

I don’t think it is broken by any means

[dusky surge]

i reckon it isn't super OP, but it's certainly overtuned in some areas

[alpine plover]

Like

Other than venom lasting forever

But if a snake would inject u 20 times

[dusky surge]

like how the venom lasts for so goddamn long and can be applied by juvis to fg animals, completely ruining them for 5 minutes

[alpine plover]

Kinda the same outcome

Well in snakes a baby snake venom is a lot more potent than a adults

So maybe that’s why

And if u get bit a lot by it than that would make sense to last for 5 mins

[dusky surge]

yet troodon doesn't get venom till it's 65%, so that's a bizarre reasoning

and troodon's venom lasts for far less time

[alpine plover]

Troodon also not as strong as a dilo dilo is 100 times its size

Maybe the venom time could go down

But other than that it’s not super op it’s pretty balanced

[dusky surge]

come on, "not as strong" is such a ridiculous argument. It's a venomous creature, size literally does not matter

[alpine plover]

Ok ig that is true

So instead of 5 mins make it last for like 2 or 3 mins

[dusky surge]

1 minute would be better

[alpine plover]

Then boom it’s balanced

[dusky surge]

require you to actually reapply it and get in your opponent's face and run some risks

[alpine plover]

If it was 1 min

[dusky surge]

you know, like how Troodon has to

[alpine plover]

Then they would have to constantly attack and not even to beable to use the clones

2 to 3 mins seems reasonable

[dusky surge]

did you know venom goes down per-stack? having to bite once per minute is hardly a frightening tradeoff

[alpine plover]

Enough time for the clones to take affect but also have to keep reapplying it

[dusky surge]

if it were 30 seconds, the clones would still have value

[alpine plover]

Then dilo would be pointless if it was 30 seconds

1 to 2 mins is like very reasonable other than that dilo is balanced

[dawn falcon]

Thing is, you don’t want Dilo focusing on using clones and not bothering to keep the venom going.

30 seconds or 60 seconds means Dilo has to constantly intervene on top of using clones to keep its ability going.

[gentle maple]

The game needs more food source, keep dying of hunger as a carnivore cause there's no AI to hunt most of the time. I spawn, try to find AIs, run out of stamina, then die of hunger cause nothing is spawning

[fallow blaze]

it depends where you are.
the western part of Gateway is almost a dead zone.
between highlands, the big river and the right dome in the south-east
you can hardly save yourself from Ai.

[jovial vessel]

I'd love to be able to find AI or players, that'd be so great

[tired yoke]

is there a reason why there are no diets for dilos and herras for cera and carnos? how are they not on there diets also why are the diets for dilos and herras ALL thingss that are ai which dont work yet and dinos no one plays? just a concern of mine

[earnest salmon]

Same concern. Too many elements of their diets rely on something that is way too scarce or ineffecient. Is worse for herrera since they are bad hunters.

[shadow vortex]

Niice I'm finally liking the new carno, they also brough back drift... Tbh the only thing that left to do is to reduce a bit its stam drain on charge xd

[distant torrent]

@carmine crypt I fully agree. teno feels horrible to play again with the nerfs hit to its attack stamina. it feels about as bad to play as when gateway first came out and stamina cost wasn’t fixed yet to compensate

its hit box also seems all janky too this update. tail tip bites allow bile from cera, venom from dilos, and a lot of hits on things don’t register

[carmine crypt]

it wassent even in the Patch notes witch make it even worse and it was fine sinse u could not get u stam from trot

[distant torrent]

yeah, they should’ve just left teno untouched. it didn’t need that nerf

[carmine crypt]

especially in an update were 2 new Carnis are introduced it a bad move to Nerf Herbis

tenno got Nerf and shadow Nerf for the past cupel updates it not even funny anymore

[distant torrent]

and here I was thinking it’d be basically almost fully balanced and fun to play

reminder that the kick hitbox is trash and you have to fuse your ass with your target for it to actually hit

[carmine crypt]

tenno was relatively in a good spot but now it trash agen

[distant torrent]

unfortunately

[balmy briar]

when i joined right before 6.5 came out, teno seemed really fun to use, so idk if there was better time before that

but that was indeed more fun to be teno, dont agree with the nerfs either

[frail bobcat]

@tiny thicket would you like to get oneshot by omnipounce without counterplay as a pachy again?

[tiny thicket]

If u are up to the challenge

[frail bobcat]

It wasnt a challenge. you pounced the pachy, it couldnt run and it started bucking...

oh wait, the bucking was so bad that you could jump off before almost being out of stam and finishing it off with bites

[tiny thicket]

isn't that situation already dealt with? Omni can't pounce from front anymore so there is no need buck anyways

[frail bobcat]

yes... otherwise omnis can still do insane amounts of bleed without bucking

that powerful of a ability needs counters

[tiny thicket]

oh does pachy ram has a counter?

[frail bobcat]

yes, it has endlag which you can heavily abuse

bait the ram, get a free hit

[tiny thicket]

can't omni pounces be dodged like pachy ram?