balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

i missed the ultimate omniraptor defender convention

wow they literally pulled an "eat grass and die" to why pachy should just die to omni

i missed out on a good one

[alpine sleet]

at his worst? 3 raptors delete a cera with raw damage in 3 pounces

and a pachy as well

just one pounce and facetank

[torn sky]

Oh wow, I want to live that dream

[dusky surge]

It’s in the game right now so you can

Because raptor is broken atm

[torn sky]

Que son chistosos estos weones

[dusky surge]

No hablo espanol lmao

[dawn falcon]

Get better ig

2 full Omni pounces can bring a carnos hp to 60% just from being bucked off.

Not to mention for similar sized creatures, you’re face tanked by alt bites after just 1 semi-full pounce.

[violet yew]

good news is that the raptor is just going to get better from here... i just cant wait

ill be pinning stegos,ceras, and carnos in no time.

[alpine sleet]

anda a feedback y mira el video que esta subido 😉

y si no me crees te invito a entrar a un server en el que soy admin y elegir pachy, te voy a mostrar lo que hace el utah

[stark knoll]

English only, please

[alpine sleet]

ok sorry

[alpine sleet]

join norden and pick pachy ill go utah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ8T_96-Zmw&ab_channel=BirdBrain

[torn sky]

Omg, pounced so good

[alpine sleet]

good argument, 2 screenshots of a visual bug

[torn sky]

pounce work 40%, fail 60$% xd

[odd pebble]

You really shouldnt use bugs to justify your balance argument

[torn sky]

Nope, bugs in pounce

[torn sky]

nope, pounce works, and don't work

[alpine sleet]

what?

[odd pebble]

What im saying is, just because pounce doesnt work sometimes, you dont just go and buff the mechanic 10 fold. Instead you fix it

Bugs are really not a justification for saying omni is bad. Thats a problem with the mechanic, not the playable

[scarlet onyx]

so uh whats the point in baiting out teno tailslams now? as far as i can tell its 3% for each tailslam. isn't that like over 30 slams you have to bait out now? for a single teno? what am I missing here

[alpine sleet]

but still this update is one of the best pounce working wise, i didnt find any bug that made me die when using pounce yet

[alpine sleet]

dont worry, now theres no point on baiting it at all anyways

[scarlet onyx]

lol

[alpine sleet]

i mean except you are a cera i guess but you can use it as a window to attack

[scarlet onyx]

idk in my raptor days I remember getting headshotted by tailslams mid-air all the time

aside from raptor being broken now, seems like a death machine

[alpine sleet]

tail slam needs to touch the floor now

thats why it cant stop a ram

[hasty coyote]

What stegos ceras and carnos? If Omni only gets better, then people will only play it or stop playing.

[violet yew]

eventually, omnis will be able to pin larger dinos

[hasty coyote]

My point is not “you won’t be able to pin larger Dino’s” I know that’s a planned mechanic and I don’t see the purpose personally.

My point is if Omni only gets stronger, then it’s going to overshadow the entire roster. As such, people will either quit because they don’t have a chance to survive or just play Omni. As such, good luck finding other playables if Omni only gets stronger.

[knotty harbor]

If it helps they can only grapple down if the target is out of stam

[violet yew]

maybe it’s so raptors can target bigger game instead of focusing on smaller dino’s like gallis, pachys, tenos? which seems to be the real issue which i sometimes agree with. and im sure this new mechanic will require skill anyway. i don’t see the raptor becoming too of the class tbh

and just according to feedback, if people stop playing it’s because of “poor optimization or the stamina changes”

you’re not the first to point out raptor being “OP”…. is it really that broken ? pls explain how or why

[hasty coyote]

I haven’t heard that confirmed anywhere but it wouldn’t be terrible with that. Though I believe they would still need to change things to balance that.

[knotty harbor]

I believe it was mentioned at some point by one of the devs

I might be crazy though

[knotty harbor]

#isle-discussion message

See someone else heard same thing so I'm not crazy lol

[hasty coyote]

Here then, I’ll say the exact reason I believe it is incredibly strong right now. The amount of time you can spend latched and the new debuffs it gives prey make it incredibly oppressive unless you stay incredibly close to terrain you can knock them off. As people have said and tested before, it deals about 400 damage if you hold pounce for most the duration. This is enough to make pachy die in 2 bites, or even kill a cera with 4 raptors by raw damage. Meanwhile the prey is being debuffed by being unable to sprint or use attacks. This leaves the prey with no chance to counterattack unless they are right next to a tree to scrape them off. Even if they cut the stam of Omni in half, it would still have insane bleed potential.

Overall, this leaves the prey with very little ability to survive the encounter unless they 1-shot the Omni or omnis before they pounce or happen to be next to a tree. And with how open the plains are, it’s incredibly difficult to find terrain you can use to survive at times. Thus, it is unfair to the prey and it should be changed.

Personally, I don’t want Omni to just be nerfed into the ground, instead I just want them to make them rely on shorter pounces with higher stam regen. Such as making pounce cost much more stam, but either buffing their stam regen or making pounce apply a stam regen buff for a short time on the Omni. Thus, the prey has a better chance to counter attack, but omni still has the same threat.

[hasty coyote]

You’re at least not the only crazy one lol. But I can def see that being the case. I’d just need to see it implemented to see exactly what I like and dislike about it.

[violet yew]

i see what you mean and I’d have to agree. unfortunately, I wouldn’t know what the right answer would be to balance that out asides from what you mentioned. maybe even decrease bleed or raw damage dealt? I would be interested to see how this is dealt with in the future developments to come.

[hasty coyote]

I’m glad I was able to convince you. There’s a lot of potential solutions, Omni just needs to not be able to deal as much in a single pounce. But I also don’t want it nerfed into the ground. Who else am I supposed to absolutely flatten as a pachy lol.

[golden coral]

Keep in mind for now you apparently can't attack when they dismount, so they added another safety net. So even if you made pouncing shorter and more of a repeated attack, unless you also remove face/tail pouncing, there'd be no risk to the omnis unless the target is just standing next to terrain from the beginning of the encounter. Can just have one face pounce, then time new pounces to dismounts and you're never at any risk. And then there's how useless bucking is.

[coarse blaze]

I think:

• Bucking needs to be come back as it previously was

• Get rid of exploiting face/rear pouncing

• The initial bleed for tap-pouncing needs to stay gone

• Give back the previous stamina drain for pouncing/latching

• Implement pounce punishment.

• Get rid of the delay for attacking when they're dismounting, this is what separated those who could correctly dismount vs those not thinking what-so-ever.

So basically how it was before, minus the tap-pouncing, face/rear pouncing and adding pounce punishment. I have no idea why they decided to just make it so that any player can pretend they're good at omniraptor.

With the upcoming new grapple mechanic too, I think omniraptor should take skill in a group to preform super well; a risk/reward creature. Troodons have to think while hunting in a group, so why shouldn't the bigger non-venomous counter-part?

Omniraptor literally has a 1-shot mechanic to anything smaller than it so long as it has stamina through-out the pinning process, it's clearly viable solo but it doesn't need to be able to do what it can at the moment.

[tropic horizon]

Awesome game design

There’s actually no feasible way that the whole “a bunch of raptors pinning something down together” could be added AND be balanced. I don’t see a reality where that would happen. Just giving the animal that primarily hunts in packs a pretty much free win button.

But then again that’s just how I see it and I could be surprised by it sooooo

[slim dragon]

Unless pounce is made harder to land
Like for example removing its teleport function, making it impossible to pounce heads and tails, for starters...

[hollow canyon]

Omni exists because it looks nothing like a Utah and they had to change its name.

It's old "Utahraptor" with a changed name. That's it, real Utah is supposed to be part of the roster further down the line and it looks vastly different.

[fierce crypt]

Not true, magnet pounce is still a thing, you can pounce a head and it will tp you on the body

Quick question, why do people disagree with this? #balance-feedback message

[slim dragon]

You might want to re-read my message

[fierce crypt]

Omfg, I'm so stupid sorry, I just woke up lmao

[slim dragon]

it happens

[tropic horizon]

I honestly don’t know why. The only thing I see that could maybe justify it is personal bias but even then why let your bias be the deciding factor in how the game is balanced?

Then again that happens a lot anyways so I shouldn’t be surprised

[shadow vortex]

@sturdy thistle bruh that hits hard, you timed tail slam perfectly and that still didn’t hit. I’m so disappointed to what abomination they turned carno, it was fun to play for me even solo back in 6.5 (though I can agree some weren’t so pleased with acceleration) cause of some features it had and that it was fair in fighting things for both parties (not as it is now…). Though I didn’t like it even in 6.5 that tenos almost can’t stop my charge, but it’s about ‘almost’ cuz some of them managed to, and also they at least could step sides and tail slam right after, but now they literally can’t and that is awful

Devs really have to see what their ‘non metagaming balance’ is now, like watch fights on Norden idk, something at least. Utahs evaporating pachies with 1 pounce, carnos with their ‘ram - mock the enemy - ram again’ playstyle, stegos that anymore can’t divide who is skilled utah and who is not, ceras with their bite that doesn’t cost stamina, pteras… they’re just trash now, bruh

[dusky surge]

carno doing that much damage with that much accel is absurd

it is baffling they kept it the same in terms of power after the many buffs carno gained

it was already clear that charge was overtuned

it's like they're allergic to nerfing it though

they will nerf every element besides the one element that's broken

[shadow vortex]

Absolutely

They have to at least just stun anything above 1200 and not knock it down, also reducing ram’s damage and increasing acceleration a bit so it’s not this rocket speed. Btw carno ambushes really well even with Gateway, so increasing acceleration a bit won’t make it worse (you anyway won’t see sprinting carno in a row of bushes which are abundant in highlands). But firstly devs actually have to decide whether carno is ambusher or pursuer mh

But another question is, should carno wander at highlands or it should be at east plains, where is no bush at all

[dusky surge]

ideally it shouldn't ambush

but it does, sadly

[hasty coyote]

I’d rather not make the same mistake the devs have done multiple times: fixing every issue at once and leaving the Dino op or useless. Fix the biggest issue, and especially if it’s a big change, wait to see the results for any more buffs or nerfs.

[golden coral]

Fair enough. Though I'm not sure what the biggest issue would be, aside from pounce being the issue no matter what we do.

[hasty coyote]

Personally the big issue is how long and how much damage they deal with a single pounce. Even if you change anything else, it won’t really matter because you kinda get 1-shot anyway.

Like if we remove all the other stuff pounce does and literally just kept damage, pachy’s only chance to survive is to get a fracture before the Omni pounced it.

[alpine sleet]

they have main character syndrome

[dusky surge]

Raptor MUST win

[alpine sleet]

as i said earlier, i can't wait to see omni mains and rex main discuss

[dusky surge]

some omni mains believe that they should have an even 1v1 with rex so do with that as you will

[violet yew]

i can’t wait for raptor to get buffed again… and just imagine how OP a herd of dilos is gonna be

[dusky surge]

probably not that OP

[alpine sleet]

i had a dream today where i was playing pachy and they added dilos

also a deino almost killed me

in the dream

[violet yew]

have you not seen what they can do? lol it’s gonna be actually crazy

[dusky surge]

dilo is fragile, it can't pounce (which is omni's greatest strength), only one animal can envenomate a target at a time, it can't jump

[violet yew]

yet they have insane bleed damage and venom or poison effect… don’t know which is which rn

[alpine sleet]

i guess dilo will be good at hunting mid tiers, its not fast enough to hunt something like a galli, maybe it is faster than a pachy tho

[dusky surge]

they have venom, but if you can kill the hallucinations, the venom does zero damage

[dusky surge]

it's faster than a raptor. It's also said to be designed to be really quite bad at punching up

[violet yew]

oh really? do the hallucinations do damage or is it all for show?

[dusky surge]

they're the only part of the venom that does damage

[alpine sleet]

whattt faster than a raptor????

and its 700 kilos

[dusky surge]

yea

its still screwed by the first raptor to land a pounce on it. A pair of raptors is 100% death

[alpine sleet]

what do you mean by bad at punching up?

[dusky surge]

the devs said it will not be good at hunting significantly larger prey

[alpine sleet]

but isnt it odd? a dilo is 700 kilos, stronger than a utah and also faster

[violet yew]

one thing about new additions to video games in general is that they start OP to grab gamers attention then end up getting nerfed to the ground. kinda like call of duty making the new gun really good then nerfing the power right out of it. i think that’s what happened with cera and will happen with the dino’s to come

[dusky surge]

not really, since it can't pounce

[golden coral]

Depends on the abilities, size and stats aren't everything, or shouldn't be.

[dusky surge]

we're really underselling what pounce can do here

[golden coral]

Dilo may not be as well designed as omni, pounce is quite the powerful and risk free tool

[dusky surge]

dilo has to run up and bite, which is generally a LOT riskier than a pounce

[alpine sleet]

you think a omni will win most of the times? i mean if they dont nerf it of course it will but im talking about a normal omni

[golden coral]

Though the venom might work well in other circumstances, and there's the risk of how it might work in mixpacks

[dusky surge]

in a 1v1, i'd recommend the dilo run away rather than engage an omni, especially at day

[violet yew]

raptors and dilos mixpack would be hell tbh

[golden coral]

If omni remains as of right now, one pounce would probably end up killing it, if not with damage then with bleed

[dusky surge]

if a pachy is anything to go off, a single pounce will be lethal for a dilo

[golden coral]

Two omnis would shred a dilo

[alpine sleet]

yes but i'm assuming they will need it back to what it was in the last update

nerf****

right?

[golden coral]

We can only hope, but I doubt it

[shadow vortex]

I pretty much agree to everything that has been said in this message, but I would add a bit more of my opinion:

1. Long deadly pounce (which we have now) should go. Tap-pounce shouldn’t be added back either. Instead, I would suggest that utah inflict the largest bleed after 3 seconds of pounce, but then the effectiveness of the bleed would decrease and it’s better to dismount after the time passed. So there’s time in which you can throw the utah off, and after it dismounts (and it should) you can deal damage to it. If that’s too harsh with the returned effectiveness of bucking, prob a bit increased stamina pool or reduced stamina drain when pouncing (but not THAT reduced as it is now, so you would still require a reliable pack).
2. If the weight of prey isn’t supposed to be pinned, then the transition to walking or that ‘grappling’ will be determined only by the left prey’s stamina (stamina<20% - trotting, stamina <5% - grappling). Also only with 2+ utahs (even for pachy) and further scaling on the prey’s weight and size (5+ utahs for things of stego’s weight).

[alpine sleet]

man, i feel bad for pachys, its so hard to find another pachy but now a single utah is more than enough to kill you

[dusky surge]

things we know about dilo

• can't jump
• fragile as all hell, may even take more damage than an animal its size should
• absolutely zero resistances to anything
• has no safe approach options and HAS to bite
• does not punch up well
• only one dilo can use venom on a single victim at a time, making it a far worse pack predator than troodon

[shadow vortex]

And forgot to add, also reducing the out-coming flat pounce damage would be welcomed.

[violet yew]

what does punch up mean?

[alpine sleet]

bruh i thought it would be a mid tier hunter

[dusky surge]

teno kicks its ass, apparently pachy does too

[dusky surge]

a single hit from a diablo gets it below half health

[alpine sleet]

i dont know how to feel about this

[stark knoll]

Successfuly kill things larger than itself

Omniraptor and troodon are both punch-up animals for instance

[alpine sleet]

i expected it to be the first playable to be able to have a close 1v1 with a pachy, im not counting utah because thats something unholy

[violet yew]

oh, cool thanks. i didn’t know troodons were chill like that

[alpine sleet]

i mean right now if we leave utah aside because that doesnt count everything loses or wins against a pachy

[dusky surge]

No pachy apparently shatters it

Like a single ram just obliterates dilo

It is likely that dilo will want to avoid pachy like the plague

Which is good imho

[long token]

so waht does the dilo actually kill besides juveniles?

[alpine sleet]

i mean if its that fast it makes sense, but i was expecting a different playstyle for dilo

[long token]

because they are making it so weak imo

[alpine sleet]

i dont know, gallis maybe? its not a good pack hunter, is weaker than a utah, a pachy, has no chance against mid tiers

[long token]

i think it is a mistake to make it not be able to punch up with skill

like the raptor

[dusky surge]

the devs have actively said they don't want it to

like pretty sure maia just doesn't care about it

at all

[golden coral]

I'd imagine things around it's own size, slightly smaller and slightly larger. Being a sort of terror tactics hunter solo.

[alpine sleet]

but omni kills it in one pounce and pachy shatters it in one ram

[long token]

yea its gonna get destroyed

[golden coral]

Punch up would be fine if there were some form of limitations on it. Look at troodon, look at omni, being far more powerful than they should. Risk is the same might apply to dilo.

[long token]

i think a full pack of raptors should be dominate imo

[golden coral]

Even cera with vomit can punch up way beyond what could be considered reasonable

[alpine sleet]

im ok if they dont want to make it a good mid tier hunter, but imo then it should be above the rest of small playables in strenght, and below in speed of course

[long token]

8+ full raptors should be able to bring down bigger animals, i expected dilo to be lower mid tier, it appears strength wise they are making it medium small tier dino

[golden coral]

If they had to actually use some form of skill and smarts, perhaps. But even so, not really. There should be limitations on them too. But sure, a full pack could kill a rex or trike if they want to, but then there's things like shant or anky and so on.

[dusky surge]

its faster than all of them, and designed to be a nocturnal ambush hunter. If you're seen coming, you're probably screwed

[alpine sleet]

i see

[golden coral]

Dilo was never mid tier, it's not a large critter. Carno is on the lower end of mid, teno is possibly one, but cera should not really be counted as mid tier, I don't think at least.

[dusky surge]

teno isn't even mid lol

[long token]

dilo was the largest predator in its day

[dusky surge]

yea but its not here

[long token]

start of the large predators

[golden coral]

Right, but we're looking at the roster in the game

[dusky surge]

here it's a small tier at best

[violet yew]

i was expecting similar to gameplay to the dilo on legacy

[dusky surge]

it's big for a small tier, but it's a small tier

[golden coral]

And in the game, mid tier is about allo sized

[dusky surge]

midtier is around 2-4 tons

[long token]

dilo doesnt bring any fear if it cant kill anything

[dusky surge]

it can, but pachy should still destroy it

dilo relies on night to get the first bite, because the first bite is when things swing in its favour

[long token]

i fear the hallucinations are going to be obvious AI and less effective then they are being sold

therefore making them even more weaksauce

[golden coral]

What makes you think it can't kill anything. I can see it being quite a good same lane hunter. Omni is well, op, but that's an omni issue. And pachy is scary, but I still think dilo can hunt one quite well.

[golden coral]

Doesn't matter. If the hallucination hit you, you take damage

So you have to deal with them or potentially die

[long token]

is the damage on par with a legit bite by the real dilo?

have they answered that?

[golden coral]

No idea

Just know that the hallucinations do damage

So even if you know it's not the real dilo, it's still potentially a danger

[alpine sleet]

but did yall saw that stream where a dilo 1v1s a cera?

[long token]

so it is faster than a raptor? we thinking like 49km.hr? what a wierd balance choice

i didnt facux

[alpine sleet]

that dilo we saw would destroy a pachy, even a omni

it left the cera on last screen iirc, in a 1v1

[long token]

i expected the dilo to dominate a single pachy or raptor

and hoped it could outfight a cera with skill, and fit right in that spot

but die to a cera with skill and carno will eat it alive

[golden coral]

Well, it probably can, but I'd imagine pachy to be scary since it's quite a capable same lane fighter. As for omni, well... if omni remains as is, it'd probably win. At best you might kill it and then bleed out.

[alpine sleet]

yes if it remains like this omni wins against everything below cera size

[long token]

do we know if the agility of the dilo is up there with omni?

or cera for that matter, cera has good agility

[alpine sleet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqeDxOF0hUw

watch this

[long token]

hmm

[stark knoll]

@balmy briar That's currently how it works in game

Different species have different regen times as well

[long token]

curious if any of those were the hallucination

[alpine sleet]

no, none of them

he didnt apply the venom

[long token]

i thought he did? how does venom get applied then

[stark knoll]

Bites

[long token]

none of those were bites?

i thought u bite, then u do the laugh and the venom activates

[alpine sleet]

i dont really know why but it didnt, you see a fog around you and the dilo does a laugh to spawn the clones

[long token]

more bites the hallucinations get more severe

[alpine sleet]

theres a dilo vs cera video but it was in a stream and i cant find it on youtube

[long token]

full grown cera?

[alpine sleet]

yes

the dilo was using the clones and such

it was a stream from elmacotv

on twich

[dusky surge]

just had to go up against an omni

thanks to the bleed + pounce pin stam + everything, i didn't stand a remote chance as a smaller creature

literally reduced me to 15% for like, existing

surely a balanced animal

[long token]

what were u

if ur smaller then yeah ur usually done for

[dusky surge]

teno

i stunned it a bit but died for trying because teno isn't allowed to have good damage

against the rules for a herbi to be strong

i landed so many kicks on him, he landed one pounce

[long token]

how does the pounce pin work

it only kicks in once the target anima';s stam is down?

[dusky surge]

no

if you're smaller, you get pinned and are essentially already screwed

[violet yew]

how would you expect a small teno to fight off a full grown raptor?

[long token]

oh thought u were talking about the new pounce pin mechanic they r bringing in

[distant torrent]

tbh i want teno’s kick damage to be buffed to 300 (i think it’s 250 right now)

[long token]

yea if ur smaller than a raptor, then yeah ur gonna struggle for obvious reasons

[dusky surge]

it was a sub

wasnt even fullgrown

[alpine sleet]

yes teno kick is hard to land and doesnt deal that much damage

[dusky surge]

it does the most damage of any attack it has, so that's unfortunate

[violet yew]

i guess what i mean to say is that a tenos power comes from when is full grown. like a full grown teno can easily triple tail whip a carno.

[dusky surge]

one headshot charge from carno does more damage than 3 bodyshot tailwhips btw :)

[alpine sleet]

not anymore, carno is way stronger than a teno now, but its more carnos fault than teno

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message yea good luck with that when charge is a thing

[dusky surge]

teno is just bad atm because carno exists and they will never ever nerf the charge

the animal itself would be honestly balanced if they just removed the charge and increased its biteforce. Should they do that? Probably not. But the charge is the entire problem with it rn

[violet yew]

try something different? i mean can there ever truly be balance? someone has to get the short end of the stick, right?

[distant torrent]

god please remove the charge

[violet yew]

i guess you can find a problem with anything if you look hard enough

[dusky surge]

teno has gotten that short end for 3 updates now

[alpine sleet]

theres just 2 big problems, omni pounce and carno charge and everyone is complaining about it

[violet yew]

ok then stop playing teno? no matter what gets buffed or nerfed there will always be someone or something on the bottom of the totem pole

[violet yew]

really? those are the biggest problems in the game? sorry i can’t see that

[alpine sleet]

balance wise

[dusky surge]

yea they really are two of the biggest balance issues

[alpine sleet]

the rest of the playables are very balanced imo

[dusky surge]

honestly yea

deino is busted, but avoidable with gateway. haven't had too much issue with it

[violet yew]

ok i think cera is unbalanced but i find a way to deal with that by actively avoiding them or even fighting with them

[dusky surge]

cera is actually fine atm thanks to the changes of gateway

[alpine sleet]

i think cera is the most balanced carnivore

imo

[dusky surge]

it used to be terribly OP in U6.5, but got brought to a more comfortable medium now

[odd pebble]

The problem is that you arent getting away if a carno or omni is locked on to you unless you wound or kill it

[dusky surge]

^

[violet yew]

so wound or kill it? fight back if you can’t run

[odd pebble]

Thats.... What i said?

[violet yew]

sometimes getting away just isn’t an option anymore

[odd pebble]

Teno is simply ill equipped to deal with carno rn

[dusky surge]

except carno is so large it's difficult to wound, especially considering the many damage nerfs teno and pachy get

[odd pebble]

All i need is the parry for carno charge from teno tailslam back

[dusky surge]

i don't even need that

[distant torrent]

but you literally can’t unless the said carno or omni doesn’t know how to fight. you can’t easily dodge rams or even counter them as a teno

[dusky surge]

i just think charge shouldn't do this much damage or knockdown to a teno

[violet yew]

i think solo players suffer the most from these unbalances. a group of raptors wouldn’t dare to fight a herd, if they do get a kill they either won’t be able to eat it or will have no stam left and get ran down

[knotty harbor]

I think carno should get a similar system to dryo where is uses slots for its charge, maybe limit it to 2

[dusky surge]

it does

it literally has that system right now, it does nothing

[knotty harbor]

Omni I have no idea as I tend to clap them pretty easily

[dusky surge]

carno uses its speed to stay out of your range until the cooldown is up and charge you again

[knotty harbor]

How many charges does it have?

[dusky surge]

one every 20 seconds

it also still does 350 damage and knockdowns on anything smaller than it

[knotty harbor]

Make it two every 2 mins problem solved

[dusky surge]

not really no

the problem persists, the charge sucks to play against

[knotty harbor]

Yes really, if combat lasts that long you deserve to die

[dusky surge]

carno should have long combat imho

[knotty harbor]

That makes no sense

Nothing should have long combat this isn't path of titans

[dusky surge]

carno should be a pursuit pred

not an ambush burst damage thing

that's allo's job, and allo does it better

[knotty harbor]

I agree to that part but it's wishful thinking at this point

[alpine sleet]

i think the problem is not in the cooldown, its just that it right clicks and deals a ton of damage, its almost impossible to dodge right now

[knotty harbor]

Well that's cause you can use it as soon as you start sprinting

Which is dumb af

[alpine sleet]

yep

[remote crow]

@thorn vault
the reason the game is slowly dying is because of 10 idiots who say everything is fine when in reality it is a complete disaster. Devs do not accept the fact they screw a ready to play game like in Spyro, with this mess in The Gateway. Everything is messed up in this patch, and doesnt seem they listen to any of the more than legitimate complaints. GG

[thorn vault]

Oh trust me. I know. There’s not 1 day that I don’t see someone complaining about something multiple times a day and the devs do nothing but sit back and enjoy the mess they’ve caused. This game is turning out to be TERRIBLE and not even fun to play.

[remote crow]

Absolutely agree, and I have more than 500 hours in Spyro, I'm am a huge fan of the game, but in this state is awful and unfun...

[thorn vault]

Same! I just downloaded the game not even 3 months ago and have about 600 hours in the game. So I’ve been playing every single day until* the new update came out, now I can’t even play my stego without being frustrated and log off within a hour.

[golden coral]

This whole "game is dying" is.... you know we've heard that for the last 5+ years, right? :p

[remote crow]

I feel you sis... 🙂 same for me

and this is the exemple why the game is a mess, the paladin of the devs

[golden coral]

Ah yes, because me finding your statements exaggerated means everything is fine ^^

[remote crow]

I dont know you tell me

It is fine for you the game in this state?

[violet yew]

they’ve already made changes to the stamina and are working to continue doing so

[thorn vault]

And my partner got stuck at the dam, and had pinged official admins every single day since gateway was released until yesterday. He was a fg stego. Didn’t get the help so he just let a croc kill him

[remote crow]

ye I feel the pain and that's the reason why I dont play in offi anymore

[golden coral]

The game is overall playable, that's a fact. Is it a big change from how the game worked on Spiro compared to Gateway. Sure, it is. But the devs do want to slow the pace down, and they want the focus to be on survival over fighting. So they want us to have to conserve our stamina and think on when to use it.

Is the current stam and all fine, no, but it's not so much the stamina as it is a lack of good trots and walks, and a lack of adjusted hunger/water drain times. Is the balance fine? No, not in the slightest, carno and omni are both very questionable to say the least.

But overall, you can still play more or less fine. And things will continue to be adjusted, as always.

So the whole, "game will die" is an exaggeration. We've had worse situations than this, and things ended fine.

[thorn vault]

I mean, to be fair, most of us downloaded the isle to kill other things right?!? Not just have a sitting and eating simulator. What’s the fun in that?

[golden coral]

You would do well to not mistake me saying the current state of the game is fine, for "I like this current state". It's fine for what it is, a game in development that is lacking a good deal still.

[golden coral]

Survival. If you got the game for the death match, then you got the wrong game.

[remote crow]

ye I dont think they understand that

They think is funny walking in an empty map growling at the moon and sitting in a bush

[golden coral]

And I think that the lack of understanding that the vision of the devs is not the same as why most of us got the game, is why some changes seem so strange or "the devs don't listen to feedback". Which is in part on the game and devs for not being clear enough on what the game is about.

[violet yew]

this game was never adverstised as a dino team deathmatch... consider PoT if youre looking for that

[remote crow]

so Dinos in the past just wlak sit and if they can, eat something found in the way. They dont hunt... is that yuor idea of SIM

[golden coral]

The problem is that the game got put out in sandbox way back when, where the only thing to do was well, spawn in and fight stuff. It is not strange that we have a playerbase that thinks the game is a dino sim about fighting others. But that's neither the original vision nor what the game is meant to be currently

[remote crow]

wow, cannot imagine why this game is getting painfull

[thorn vault]

Let me correct myself. Most of us got the game to SURVIVE and fight other things. Just how the game description says “Experience fierce open world survival gameplay as you attempt to stay alive on an unforgiving island inhabited by dinosaurs! Hunt. Grow. Survive.”

[remote crow]

not Sit, scroll cellphone, eat grass and sit again

[thorn vault]

^^^

[golden coral]

Yep. And part of that survival is managing your stam, for example. Part of that is slowing down the pace of the game. Some of what you mentioned are obvious bugs or issues with the game being unfinished. Such as getting stuck and all. Others is a lack of adjustments on the part of the player for the new pace and the changes. And some of the issues stem from the game not having all of the things in it that it should, or adjusted for the changes in all aspects.

[violet yew]

consider conserving your stam better, the only times ive been sitting is to heal or regain stam after an engagement. running around like a dino on speed just isnt what this game is. it mightve been at one point but theyve been clear about their intentions for the future

[golden coral]

Spiro gameplay was pretty much just death match, it was certainly not much in terms of survival

Right now we have stamina changes, but no changes to food/water drain, no improved trots and walks, and so on. We have half the changes, more or less. So it's not strange that it feels off.

[remote crow]

in a map like gateway if you JUST walk you see the map in 8 months, more of that Stam needs to be reworked in order to hunt not only to explore

Ok but the stamina/trot/walk issue is known since 2 months ago

[golden coral]

Correct

[violet yew]

i do agree that traveling is as fun as watching paint dry, in fact i'd rather just stay where I'm at and if enough people think like that then hot spots like center and NW will be a thing again

[golden coral]

But I can't really decide on how fast the devs get things done you know

[remote crow]

well but so what about this huge beautiful map... I love the map. I would like to explore and find all the biomes and hunt also..

but at the moment I cannot. simply as that

Walking is not the way to explore

[violet yew]

i mean you can do that it just takes significantly longer

[golden coral]

Not with current walks and trots, no

But they have said they are looking at the trots, so there will be adjustments, and they might adjust stamina as well, somewhat

[alpine sleet]

imo the game right now is playable, not as fun as it was before the stam rework tho, i understand the idea of making stam a super valuable resource but traveling is painfull, maybe when they add mutations they give us more things to do in the meanwhile

i mean the game had worse moments im sure of that

[remote crow]

I know that even running is not the way, how about trotting regain a little bit of stam. It's not hard I think. Dont misunderstan me, I'm really angry cause I care of the game, I LOVE THE GAME, and now it's hard for me to play it

[golden coral]

Though we should probably get used to not using up our stam unless needed, since they do want the pace slowed and for conserving stamina to be a thing. As one of them said, we need to stop running everywhere. In turn, they need to make it so we don't need to run everywhere.

[violet yew]

where can i find more info on mutations and elders? ive been seeing that brought up lately and have no idea what that means

[thorn vault]

I mean, if it wasn’t about fighting and survival why are most of us trying our damndest to become full grown to protect ourselves in a fight, right? This new gateway map is too damn big and because of stamina and food, I cannot even explore half the map without almost dying as a herbivore main because there’s absolutely no spawns for food, only in migration zones. Now, carnivores are different, because even carnivores are having a hard time getting their diet because 1, their stamina is just terrible and makes it damn near impossible to fight and hunt their prey. Even the ai’s are hard to kill when a sub adult carnivore. I love the isle as well, but to me, at this current state, we just aren’t being heard at all by the devs, and it’s frustrating.

[alpine sleet]

i suggested making the trot an actual trot so its usefull for traveling and you dont need to walk everywhere like its now, also ptera is unplayable

[remote crow]

ptera is really a pain in the ss

[alpine sleet]

i mean i like the idea of managing stam, the other day i killed a pachy as a cera because he was running for travel, but i dont like that you need to walk like a grandpa everywhere

[golden coral]

The whole having to get fully grown is a bit of an issue of it's own, with how little juvie gameplay is good. Though sanctuaries will hopefully help on that part. And yes, migrations hold food, because they want us to move around, for good and ill. I am not the biggest fan of how it currently works. Carnis seem to depend on if the teno AI works or not. If it does, you do have to run after it. If not, it just stands there and lets you kill it. And people are being heard, however the game is in progress, there are more changes to come, and the devs do have a vision they're trying to achieve.

[remote crow]

exactly, especially in a huge map that also is STUNNING

[thorn vault]

I just feel like before they release something like gateway again, make sure things are fixed to where the game is enjoyable to play, not miserable. I love the map, it’s gorgeous, but very unbalanced. Atleast give us the option to keep spiro while these bugs are being fixed ya know? Instead of forcing us to play gateway and being annoyed at the new gameplay.

[remote crow]

If you play carno you will NEVER grow up as adult. NEVER, maybe if you play with friends or other adults, otherwise you will always dies of starvation. Basically a apex carnivore as Carno as a diet of a chiwawa

[golden coral]

Then we would probably have to wait for much longer, and people would be angry about that. There's a tradeoff to most things. And you can be on spiro, on unofficials.

[alpine sleet]

they should at least reduce the hunger/water drain because if you walk everywhere in such a big map you will end starving

[remote crow]

Amen bro

[violet yew]

i grew to adulthood as a solo carno yesterday... either way, the devs are listening and theyve already made changes. its going to happen on their time at the end of the day, i dont honestly believe they are IGNORING feedback

[thorn vault]

No, they can make it their own branch as promised, but then when most of us downloaded spiro branch, we can’t even play officials. Sucks to say the least.

Because let’s be real here, unofficial servers are not so popular. There’s only a few good unofficial servers but most of them switched to gateway as well.

So to say we’ve kinda been forced to play gateway, is true.

[golden coral]

Not sure how they were going to do it, honestly, but they do allow for Spiro to exist, for now. Even if it is only on unofficials.

[alpine sleet]

also if they do this i hope they give us some kind of side quest when they add mutations so you do sometimes when you are not hunting or being hunted

[golden coral]

And true, unofficials aren't really popular

[golden coral]

At least there is a choice. Once upon a time, you had no choice but to play survival, because death match was disabled.

[alpine sleet]

like some mutations have unique requierements right?

[storm ginkgo]

I just miss fighting crocs or something that can even stand a chance with a stego

[golden coral]

? Deinos are around?

[remote crow]

https://tenor.com/view/shoryuken-dinosaur-the-isle-physics-old-version-gif-14798209

[thorn vault]

Again, I only put my feedback because the community that even makes the isle a decent game, is not being heard. We are just a frustrated community wanting to be listened too more, not just have us sit around and wait for “the devs to work on the game” only to see them add something else that pisses off everyone. Lol.

[golden coral]

Good stego!

[remote crow]

with the stamina in this state, 3 tail shot and 12 minutes in a bush try to regain it

[remote crow]

amen Sis

[golden coral]

Problem is, what the community wants don't always align with what the devs want. And they do take feedback into account, if it works with what they're going for. Right now it's mostly everyone going "change stam back" and that's not helpful at all. They changed it for a reason, and as frustrating as it is to just wait for them to get the game to the point you want, that's just how it works.

I've been waiting 6+ years for a proper gameplay loop and a reason to survive. Still no elders or perks or a life cycle.

[storm ginkgo]

They are around yes but there are so much water it’s hard to find a fight how spiro was you could go to a certain spot on spiro and you’re almost guaranteed to find at least five fg crocs but on gateway I can’t really find a spot and even if you find a spot, you have to worry about migration for food

[remote crow]

If devs dont think the community feedback is necessary for the development of the game they will play alone with 20 other baffoons

[golden coral]

Now you're exaggerating again. There's plenty of people that do like the goal the devs are aiming for.

[remote crow]

Oh I didnt read them in the messages

[thorn vault]

Okay fine. You got a good argument there. But why release a beautiful map that’s intended to be explored, and decrease the stamina a ton and the food a ton? It just doesn’t make sense.

[golden coral]

True, but I think that's probably how they want it. There were far too many deinos on spiro, and the whole "looking for a fight" is not quite how you're meant to play.

[remote crow]

I read 2 or 3 people saying SAUL GOOD but the others are different

[stark knoll]

Stamina has been increased across the board sans cerato

[golden coral]

Well, I obviously don't know. But I would guess due to peoples demand for Gateway. And if they'd kept it held back until everything else was adjusted, we'd still be waiting for it, despite "but the map is done", that people would then say.

[stark knoll]

Everything (except cera) can sprint longer, and everything can attack more/longer

[golden coral]

I agree that the current situation isn't well adjusted, but I think they went with what they had, because it is playable

[alpine sleet]

i get it but the point of a game is to make you have fun, and the community in general feel what they are aiming for its not fun, they are letting the devs know that, they can choose to hear us or not

[golden coral]

Despite how painful it can be, it does work

[storm ginkgo]

That’s true, but what’s gonna happen when they release the T-Rex? Everybody’s going to be playing it

[stark knoll]

My biggest current issue is many species' trot and walk speeds

[golden coral]

But because fun is subjective, someone will always have fun.

[golden coral]

This. Which has been an issue all of the time really, just much more noticable now.

[golden coral]

Maybe, but hopefully it'll be even harder than deino, so you'd not see many of them successfully thrive.

[storm ginkgo]

For Stegos it seems like it is very sluggish

[remote crow]

T-rex will be playable?? Uhm I hope not, I hope is just an AI

[stark knoll]

It will be available for community servers to enable

[golden coral]

Go play pachy, see how that trot feels ^^ Then you'll know true pain!

[thorn vault]

Was just gonna say that

[stark knoll]

When it's first released, it'll be disabled on official servers

[alpine sleet]

well yes, but the community in general is realy mad and bored with this new change, and in my experience when the devs dont hear the community things go bad

[remote crow]

well it's enough the people complainign about the curretn problems stop play the game, they remains in 40 in all servers

[storm ginkgo]

Gateway seems challenging like they intended to make it but it seems like nothing really goes on They definitely need to make the server bigger and hold more people.

[golden coral]

In general, I think the community is fine. Despite what it may seem like, the feedback here is very often a vocal minority. Servers seem full, people are still playing. Like they did back when we had real issues. But if there is a bunch of people that dislike the direction of the game, that's fine too. Far as I know, the devs intend to make the game according to their vision, and if you as a player don't like it, then unofficials with settings and mods will be there for you.

Also I think it's been made clear, Dondi has the funding to make the game. Even if all of us buggered off, he'd still make it.

[thorn vault]

I was gonna say something about that as well, again, I love the isle. It’s my main game. It got me away from a very toxic game and I really enjoy the game a ton. But since this new update, I’ve heard more negative feedback than positive feedback. I don’t know man. Everyone has their own opinions.

[golden coral]

We bought a game in development, under the understanding that it may change plenty before all is said and done. There's no guarantee that the end product will be something we like.

[remote crow]

This is not an opinion just open the general feedback discussion, more complaints than ever

[storm ginkgo]

Change could also be good or bad. It seems like Gateway was not ready to release. There are a lot of bugs, including spawning in rocks and not being able to join servers at all

[golden coral]

I can tell you, I've seen similar. Back when omni went from damage to bleed for example.

[alpine sleet]

well most of the people i found playing dislike it as hell

[golden coral]

And then we've had times where your 5 hour deino or stego disappeared on logout... xD

[thorn vault]

Yeah every single person I’ve spoke too, absolutely dislikes the gameplay so far. They love the map, just hate the gameplay.

[golden coral]

Fair, but we do have what, a few thousand players?

[thorn vault]

11 thousand players were on lastnight. So more than just a few thousand

[storm ginkgo]

The game just seems like walking simulator. Nothing is really challenging except for food and steam. I miss spiro where you could go to center and guarantee a fight.

[golden coral]

And then I'd have to wonder how much of that is simply not being used to the new style of play. Its no surprise that a change like this would be disliked if only because it's entirely new

[golden coral]

Well, that's a lot of opinions to take in :p

[storm ginkgo]

But I’m speaking as playing a Stego

[alpine sleet]

theres a lot of games that had thoustand of players, the devs choosed to do what they wanted and the game dissapeared, thats how the merchant works, as i said they can do what they want but i dont think thats a smart move

[thorn vault]

I gaurentee out of those 11 thousand players, probably 9 thousand of those players have complained about something LOL.

[golden coral]

Well, sure, it could end up an "empty" game, but I find it unlikely that that many people would leave honestly

[alpine sleet]

having your community angry with you is never good

[thorn vault]

Yep.

[golden coral]

And as I told Jago earlier, plenty of times we've heard "this will kill the game" "devs dont care" and so on

And yet, here we are... still doing just fine

[storm ginkgo]

I mean before they even release Gateway, how many people was reporting about Cheaters

[violet yew]

keyword "complained" the devs want the feedback, they want soltuions, ideas, compromises not adults that act like children and spamming the same complaint over and over

temper tantrums dont work in the adult world

[golden coral]

I would agree. But keep in mind, the devs could do the good old way of developing. Just doing it on their own, no communication, at best maybe a forum where we could speculate about the game.

[storm ginkgo]

But isn’t complaining a sign of feedback

You will never know what’s wrong with the game unless you hear the negatives also

[violet yew]

sure

[alpine sleet]

eventually the isle will have a real competence, where there is potential customers offer will appear, i love the game but thats the nature of things

[golden coral]

And that would be the issue. The devs don't neccesarily want you to "guarantee a fight". They want us to get away from that "death match" mindset of fighting.

[storm ginkgo]

So then what’s the point you just walk around eat till you get full grown

[golden coral]

Maybe. But so far, neither BoB, PoT or any other seems to do quite that. Mostly because they cater to different playstyles.

[golden coral]

I would imagine surviving until elder and gaining perks/mutations would be the main goal

[thorn vault]

Give it time. They’ve gotta do something to listen to the community not just take it with a grain of salt and do the opposite. Trust me. It’s not going to be a good look on the game. Keep an eye on those steam reviews.

[storm ginkgo]

But the game mechanics aren’t even in the game right now, so then what’s the point

[golden coral]

This is true. But there's a difference between getting constructive criticism, and just not liking a change because it doesn't fit your preferred playstyle.

[golden coral]

Maybe they want us to get used to the slower, more survival oriented playstyle in the first place?

[golden coral]

They could just ignore us all completely, and just make the game how they want it. We're not "needed" after all.

[storm ginkgo]

And you say this game isn’t about PVP but think about carnivores they have to hunt is that not PVP?

[alpine sleet]

i just see the stam change and basically telling the community they do what they want is a step in the wrong direction, it alone wont case the game to die but will for sure disencourage various customers

[thorn vault]

We aren’t “needed”? Lol. Pretty sure we are the ones giving them the money to do these changes when buying the game.

[golden coral]

Yes, hunting. Not quite the same as fighting. In general I would imagine they want us to be more cautious, and discerning on when and where we fight and with what.

[golden coral]

Which is fine, honestly. Game won't appeal to everyone. When the humans come out, I imagine that will make a lot of "dino only" players mad.

[golden coral]

Except, they have the funding they need.

[alpine sleet]

there will be plenty servers with human disabled, its not the same imo

[golden coral]

Or so we've been told when people have asked for ways to donate or otherwise help development

[thorn vault]

Anyone who develops a game needs players right?

To keep their game running. They need players. LOL.

[golden coral]

It is, though. Officials will have humans. If you don't like that, you're stuck with unofficials. Same can be said for stam when we get server settings (if we can change those things, but hopefully we can)

[thorn vault]

If they don’t have players, the game will turn out to be nothing, forgotten.

[storm ginkgo]

We need them they need us kinda like a community

[golden coral]

Not if the entire goal was for Dondi to make his ideal game, which it was, far as I know.

He's not neccesarily out to make a game for us, but for himself. More or less. Though I could be wrong there.

[alpine sleet]

the difference is we will have the option to disable humans since day 1, right now they are forcing us to play as they want, and its a way most of the people dislike

[storm ginkgo]

Without them developing the game, we wouldn’t have a game to play but without us, paying and supporting the game, they wouldn’t have people playing their game

[golden coral]

Just like might happen for other changes. But I'll give you that it would be nice if they let servers adjust things sooner rather than later.

Just like it would be nice if they added a death match mode and map for those that just want that, but for now we're stuck with survival

[storm ginkgo]

I wish a dev would join this conversation it would be nice to see there point of view

[alpine sleet]

what i heard from the devs was them basiclly telling us they do what they want and play how they want us to

[storm ginkgo]

That kind of seems selfish

[thorn vault]

That’s an interesting take I guess. Kind of makes me want to support the game less. It’s like me making a cake for my liking only and bringing it to a birthday party, and getting feedback on how to make it better, and instead of taking the feedback, I just pretty much say f you, it’s my cake but I made it for everyone else to enjoy too.

[golden coral]

Maybe next time one of them is active in the isle discussion channel you could ask. If it's Punch, you can even tag him. Do not tag any of the others however, not even on reply.

[thorn vault]

Interesting

[alpine sleet]

well its their product, but i don't see it as a healthy relationship with your community

[golden coral]

Well, if you made it for only yourself, it's fair to say "f you". You offered it, people didn't like it, but you didn't make it for them to enjoy, you made it for yourself? A strange comparison, I think?

[storm ginkgo]

I know for certain some higher-ups definitely watching this conversation 😂 they either think we are dumb or are taking notes

[golden coral]

I mean, when I bought it, I did so with the understanding that the main vision of the game was likely to end up being something I would not like. I bought it with the mindset of "If I can get a bunch of hours of fun out of this, being a dino, it's all good. If it ends up not being to my liking, maybe unofficials will appeal better, and if not, well, I had my fun"

But that's just me, of course

Meanwhile you have people who bought the game and only later went "but why add humans, bad devs" despite it being a thing from the very start of the game that it would have humans in it

[storm ginkgo]

So I gotta ask for everybody that’s watching this chat what do you think their main objective is for this game?

[alpine sleet]

i like the objetive but i think the game has a lack of things to do so it wasnt the right time or the right way imo

just my opinion tho

[golden coral]

Honestly, they say they want it to be a survival horror game. Exactly what that means, I'm not so sure.

[thorn vault]

Okay yes. I made the cake only to my liking, right? But I got feedback on it at the birthday party, I didn’t listen and still made the same cake next year, and now those people are frustrated and didn’t eat my cake that year. So think of it. You really think that the community is going to be happy at this rate? Because a lot of the people I played with no longer play because it’s just a big waste of their time. Just another game for them on their steam games wasted. I guess what I’m saying is, if you’re going to make a game for just yourself, and expect a big community to be happy about your decisions, and not listen to everyone’s feedback, don’t be upset when a big downfall or negative feedback starts to happen

[storm ginkgo]

My idea of a survival horror game is not knowing if you’re going to survive that fear of running into other things that can kill you

[golden coral]

Well, I think most people overall will be happy, because for good and ill, the Isle is still the "best", at least in the opinions I've seen, when it comes to play as dino games. As for the cake comparison, think of it more as, you made a cake, went and had it in your garden. A bunch of passerbys wanted to taste, and you said sure. Some of them liked it, others did not. You got a bunch of feedback, made a few adjustments that you liked, but also ignored the things you did not like because your main goal is to enjoy the cake, not for any of the passerbys to do it. Does that make more sense to you?

[thorn vault]

I wish nothing but the best for the isle. Again, I’m a huge lover of the game. But with all the feedback posted, I just think it’s a big waste of our texts.

[golden coral]

I think the devs are fine with people not liking their game, it's valid to not like the stamina changes. And at some point, it is valid to just go "this is not the game for me" as well.

I imagine most of us will honestly not like the final official version of the game. But well, hopefully unofficials and mods will help out.

[alpine sleet]

i find it hard for it to be a horror game, because if you are experimented you know exactly what to do to counter every threat and if you die it feels more like a strategic game where you lost, imo the horror aspect will be restricted to humans, since they have no way to defend against most of the threats

[thorn vault]

That’s where I think the devs have the wrong mindset. Or I’m just not selfish. I’m gonna take criticism and feedback and make it better. Not ignore it and still do whatever I want to do, lol.

[storm ginkgo]

What did they do for that all time peak

[stark knoll]

iirc it was evrima's release or update 3

[golden coral]

I think it depends on what you do something for. And I can't say it's bad to do something for yourself.

On top of that, at what point will you end up doing something you end up disliking yourself...

[thorn vault]

I think with a community like this, sometimes it’s better to take others opinions into consideration, is all. Not just ignore it. Now, I could be wrong and they could be making notes. But alot of the updates I’ve seen have not been anything mention in feedback.

🤷🏻‍♀️ again, I could be wrong.

[violet yew]

they arent ignoring our feedback... theyve made recent chages since gateway came to evrima... like are we just saying things just to say them? lol

[storm ginkgo]

Ahh okay 👌 thank you for the information

[violet yew]

read the pacth notes

[alpine sleet]

i think the easiest way to solve this problem is to give people the freedom to choose the stam regen values in their own servers, it should be very simple right? then you can have officials as your personal videogame and unofficials so people can play how they want

[golden coral]

I'm honestly not sure what kind of community this is, so that means little to me. And from what I know, they do take opinions into consideration. If it aligns with their vision and goals at the least. But a lot of people want this game to be something the devs don't want it to be, and that... kind of causes this sort of "conflict". You have people that do want only death match, you have people that want bird bath, and then you have those of us that want a hardcore survival. And these three gameplay styles don't mesh very well.

[storm ginkgo]

And you say this game isn’t going to be PVP but how are the humans going to play out? They have guns and stuff.

[golden coral]

Yup, I hope in the end unofficials can basically do their own balance (so we can fix omni!).

[storm ginkgo]

You don’t think other people are going to kill each other

[golden coral]

Oh I'm sure they'll shoot stuff, then die to every dino that was nearby that heard them shoot. Or so I think people imagine it will go.

[torn sky]

Carno is favorite of dondi xd

[golden coral]

You'd also have to work hard to get the guns and ammo and all

[storm ginkgo]

I do think that would be a cool idea for humans being able to build, and have dinos attack

[alpine sleet]

well i love dinosaurs so much that im not leaving the game, i have no choice but hope they have mercy on us and let us customize our servers

[golden coral]

Let me be clear. The game does have PvP, but it's not the main focus. If you play for the sake of fighting, this might not be the game for you. BoB is more into that. If you want to fight, but only do so when needed, and be careful about when you choose to fight and all, then survival would suit you better than arcade "fighting".

[golden coral]

I believe that the humans will be able to restore bases to be in

Of course, smaller dinos can get in there and get them...

[storm ginkgo]

Truth be told I play the game to PVP kill other people walking around and eating just doesn’t seem fun but everybody else has the different game style so I’m not judging

[golden coral]

Which is fair. I am simply pointing out that the devs wants to get away from that mindset.

[alpine sleet]

when i jsut want to play for pvp i go to norden and use it as a deathmatch server

[golden coral]

And if that's how you like to play, this game might not be the best choice. But then we have a bunch of other dino games that might suit you better

[storm ginkgo]

I think one of the Devs should go live and do a Q&A

Clear up some of the confusion

[golden coral]

I wish we got a proper death match mode and map

[alpine sleet]

i miss the sandbox map

[golden coral]

But so far, no luck on that front

[thorn vault]

Can I ask something. If pvp isn’t the right fit for this game, why are their other dinos on most of the carnivores diets? Just curious.

[golden coral]

Or cause more, as they can sometimes do xD

[storm ginkgo]

The map seems like it has different zones like Spyro you go to center for PVP

And for people that don’t want to fight other dinos, they should know they stay away from that spot

[thorn vault]

But they can’t, because they’ll die of starvation or have a bad diet. Lol.

[rigid temple]

I think if the devs made food a bit eaier to get for carnis or either made the trot change at the same time as the stam change it wouldve stopped most of the complaints so far

[storm ginkgo]

Regardless, you have to fight in some sort of way for food

The game is going to have to be PVP no matter what

Unless they add more AI but in my opinion, that would be stupid

[alpine sleet]

maybe making the food drain slower and making it so trot is faster, not fast enough to outrun a predator but to make traveling not that tedious

[golden coral]

Why wouldn't there be? PvP is part of the game, as should PvE be, of which we are lacking currently. When I say that PvP isn't the main focus, or the right fit, I mean that if you're only in it for the fighting, then this isn't the right game. If you're in it for surviving, which sometimes involve hunting and killing someone else, or preventing them from doing that to you, then you're good. Currently, a lot of people treat the game as "death match" because fighting is the only fun thing to do. But the devs wants us to get away from that mindset, and they are at least planning to add more reasons to maybe go "I don't know, I don't want to risk myself" and care about survival more.

[rigid temple]

Agreed, I think they just want you to choose your fights and be smart about it and not have it as kos as it was

[golden coral]

Like, if you play only for the sake of fighting others, that mindset is not quite what they want. If you fight others for the reason that you need it to survive, then it's all good.

[golden coral]

Exactly so.

[rigid temple]

Yeah, which is probably their goal they just spaced it out weird

[golden coral]

You should not confuse me saying PvP isn't the focus with me saying PvP is bad or shouldn't be a thing. I am simply saying that you should primarily focus on remaining alive, not making others dead, as it were.

If you can solve an encounter by running away, or just threaten, or scavenge, that might be the better option for your long term survival, than getting into a fight and lose stamina and health, even if you win.

[storm ginkgo]

And if they didn’t want the game to be PVP or challenging why would they hide the health? You have to guess how much damage you took for your fight

[rigid temple]

But as is its in a middle ground of starving and not being able to travel or find others so people are mad. Its not that we have to choose fights now, its that were forced to fight or starve if were lucky enough to find someone while having any stam

[golden coral]

And the stamina changes are in part to help with that, less running because you can, more so because you need. Less fighting all the way to empty, more fighting smart and use stam when needed and for good targets.

[storm ginkgo]

The stamina is stupid for Stegos

[golden coral]

Yep, due to issues such as unadjusted food/water drain, bad walks and trots, and so on. And of course, not finalized migrations, sanctuaries, and so on.

[golden coral]

Precisely so you have to guess, and will be more likely to back off rather than calculate and keep fighting because you know you can take one more hit and be fine.

[storm ginkgo]

The stego is literally a tank you could take a lot of damage. You’re slow, bad stamina , but could pack a punch

[golden coral]

So what's the issue?

[rigid temple]

Yeah, if they wouldve either held off on stam until trot change or made food and water drain more realistic most of the problems would be mitigated. Ptera would still be dead tho lol

[golden coral]

True, but then we'd have to be stuck with Spiro (bad map) and people would complain about not getting gateway despite the map being "finished" :p

[storm ginkgo]

The map no offense to the devs just seems boring The migration zone just doesn’t seem like a good idea. 👍 and how will they implement the migration zone for humans?

[golden coral]

I... don't think humans will migrate, they have bases to see to

[rigid temple]

Couldve released gateway and then the rest later

When it works

[thorn vault]

I guess this was my point in general. It now feels like no matter what we absolutely have to pvp as carnivores or we will 1. Die of starvation, or 2. Die of pvping to cure our starvation. So no matter what, this game is basically a pvp game. Others just don’t wanna see it. We absolutely have to fight to feed ourselves.

[golden coral]

Could have, but maybe they wanted to release it together, or they releases what is done when it's done, even if only some is done and and not all

[storm ginkgo]

Gateway does seem rushed like I don’t understand how some of the spawns spawn you in a rock

[thorn vault]

I’m not gonna just sit and wait to die of starvation, you best bet I’m going to go fight til death, to eat. Haha.

[storm ginkgo]

Especially the dam of death where you get stuck at

[golden coral]

Well, it's not entirely finished, I don't think at least. And certainly not perfected, there's still spots where you can get stuck, and so on.

But those kinds of issues will take time and effort to fully fix

[storm ginkgo]

I’m no way talking down on the game just giving my personal input

[thorn vault]

And yes, we have to use our stamina wisely, but even then when we do, it’s almost impossible to regain it back when needed. Idk that’s just my opinion.

There’s lots of things that need fixed. People just want to be heard. That’s ok.

[golden coral]

Which is in part most likely an issue with the other things not being adjusted. There's only so well you can manage your stamina after all.

There is, yes, and hopefully we'll get there

[rigid temple]

Yeah its in a weird spot right now. I get the feeling the devs saw the feedback and knew it would have this response and effect but since theyre such a small team they probably wanted to push it out to speed up development and were probably working on fixes before they released it. I refuse to believe they somehow arent seeing this much negative feedback

[golden coral]

Until then, I'd advice giving proper feedback, offer solutions and not just "this sucks, revert everything" and similar sentiments. Try to understand what the change is meant to achieve, and give feedback that works with that. And do remember, there are multiple other games you can go play, if you're sick and tired of the Isle for a bit. The game is still very much in development and we're no doubt going to have both good and bad times aplenty before all is said and done.

Speaking of, I was planning to go get some deep dives done in DRG, so I'll be excusing myself for now, lest I end up stuck here forever!

[rigid temple]

Ironically I think the best and easiest thing they could do to calm the majority is reverting stam until they finish the new trotting system unless its so close to being done they dont feel the need

[storm ginkgo]

It seems like they’re trying to solve multiple problems at a time instead of taking their time and not rushing things like why haven’t they stopped the cheaters yet? Why haven’t they stopped the glitch spots yet? Even spiro had the same problems why aren’t the server admin helping it shouldn’t be your fault that the game wasn’t fully ready and you get stuck to have the regrow and waste all your time it shouldn’t be your fault that there’s hackers killing you and you waste your time because you don’t get a free regrow. These are problems that need to be fixed

[thorn vault]

The thing is. I don’t want to play any other game as I genuinely use to enjoy the game. That’s what I’m saying, I DONT want to hate the game. I want to be able to enjoy it.

[storm ginkgo]

Their job should be improving the quality of the game but if it’s getting ruined by other people and ruining the players experience, then it’s something that they should be getting not focusing on a new map

[rigid temple]

I think a lot of that has to do with how small the dev team is, probably focused on making new content to keep players coming instead of fixing things. Reminds me of early ark survival

[thorn vault]

But yes, until then we do have to be patient, sit back and wait too see what’s next. Hopefully it’s more positive rather than negative. Because so far, the feedback in my opinion has not been good, whatsoever. Most people say they LOVE gateway but then there’s always “I love gateway, BUT”.

[storm ginkgo]

They should make an announcement saying they’re hiring people for server moderation team I get that some have lives but they’re purpose for that role is to help others I personally haven’t seen that happen, but others can testify

[fierce crypt]

Might be the only explanation lol

[stark knoll]

Applications to become a mod have always been open, it's the first step of becoming a server admin

[storm ginkgo]

Ahh okay 👌 do you know what are the requirements?

[stark knoll]

You have to be 18 or older, and if accepted, sign an NDA

We're especially looking for mods and admins who cover timezones we miss (most non-NA zones) and can speak multiple languages, but those are optional

[rigid temple]

Do they pay?

[storm ginkgo]

No it’s voluntarily

[stark knoll]

Nah, it's volunteer like QA

[rigid temple]

What are the benefits for doing it then?

[storm ginkgo]

If you applied, it’s basically to help the game with the kindness and wanting to help the community

[stark knoll]

Getting to help people and keep them safe, mostly

[storm ginkgo]

Also take the nda seriously you can get sued

Nondisclosure information

[rigid temple]

Would you say theres a shortage of mods?

[rigid temple]

Thats with most* NDAs

[stark knoll]

Depends on the time of day

[stark knoll]

All of us sign NDAs

[storm ginkgo]

So you have to be careful what you say

Or you can get sued 😂👏

so anybody that’s applying for mod make sure you’re smart best advice I can give you

[rigid temple]

Probably because its based off of people wanting to help, most unofficials give mods free grows and whatnot to motivate people to sign up. I get why that probably wouldnt work here though

[stark knoll]

Yea we don't do that on officials lol

Admin powers are very specifically for admin duties

[storm ginkgo]

So what do you have to do to become a server admin?

Help the servers out

[stark knoll]

Spend time as an admin in the discord

Every OSA has to start as an admin in here to build up trust

[rigid temple]

I figured, too bad they dont give a small allowance or something to get more people to help. Money is probably tight tho

[storm ginkgo]

That’s understandable they don’t want people to abuse their powers

[stark knoll]

It's much easier to undo mistakes in the Discord, and much lower impact to mute or ban someone from a public discord than it is to make a mistake on the official servers of a game you have to pay for

[rigid temple]

Thats smart

[storm ginkgo]

They have to be strict

Given the power for the wrong people can abuse it

[rigid temple]

Happens a lot in unofficials

[remote crow]

stamina is stupid for ALL

[rigid temple]

Lets hope when they do the trot change or whatever it fixes the pacing

[remote crow]

Finger cross

[rigid temple]

I think that paired with more realistically obtainable hunger and thirst needs will fix most players issues

[slim dragon]

Imagine a world where dinos don't have to eat 2x their body weight every day

[violet yew]

no seriously, i just ate a teno, filled up, walked 3 minutes and im back down to 75 lol

[alpine sleet]

#balance-feedback message this perfectly describes how i feel, and most of the people i found playing

I really hope they hear us and reconsider the stam issue, because this map has so much potential

[knotty harbor]

@alpine sleet the map and the stamina have nothing to do with each other, it shouldn't effect your view of the map when they make a game balance change

[alpine sleet]

well yes i guess i just didn't express myself in the best way

but my point is i feel its a waste to have a map like gateway and being so restricted at the same time

[dusky surge]

i honestly wouldn't say that, since it's been in some pretty pathetic states, like in U6.5. It's just that they refuse to nerf its one overpowered element so it's always in a weird spot

[alpine sleet]

thats because dondi wasnt in charge of balance iirc

[thin mantle]

Omni is obviously the favorite

[stark knoll]

@pseudo mica Having one of each diet type gives you a 50% boost to growth

[pseudo mica]

its fine that its deadly. makes sence. but dont nerf other dinos just so it doesnt get left in the dust. force this creature to work in packs. no solo

ill try again and screenshot it. most ive seen was 30%

[stark knoll]

You need to have 3 different diets for it

If you have 2 of the same icon, you'll get the 30% boost

[pseudo mica]

re running simulation

also is nesting not a thing yet? or does no one do it? havent been able to get that far either

[dusky surge]

Nesting was added in U5

[pseudo mica]

i got over 1000 hours in this game i been with it for a long while

well im just now really getting in to the evrima. but dang its not far from just being just fun honestly. like.. realism or arcade go out the window when creating a game like this. its extreme in places where "we the player" suffer. They want us playing and not having fun from my general understanding. "it tends to punish you rather than reward you" they need to give us the ability to do so in the correct settings. feel like im playing Chicken run knowing im gonna die, at the end of the day. no reason to survive at the moment any way. so i ask myself. wtf am i doing playing this game??

its missing the sense of progression.

[ashen frigate]

staving simulator

[dusky surge]

it does have a nice ring to it

[radiant willow]

As a new player that got the game a couple days ago, im not having fun playing walk and starve simulator and never being able to find at least some AI food as carnivore. Apparently AI's a lot harder to find now.

[radiant willow]

Yea i feel that as well

[slim dragon]

@hidden kettle What are you playing as ?

[hidden kettle]

well aint the name tellin ya most of the time ? 😄
Mostly Cera. and no i dont try to instant pukelock everything 😄

[slim dragon]

And you're trying to 1v1 stegos ? No wonder you're finding it hard to do

[hidden kettle]

nope only in teams and we already got the one or another but im just feelin not right about those "hitreg" i guess on em

[keen plover]

play omni if you want to hunt stegos

[slim dragon]

Weird hit registration is mostly due to ping

[keen plover]

solo that is :)

[slim dragon]

Cera is actually good at it too
Way better than it should be

[keen plover]

Omni is busted now. Free dismounts and half a pounce does 6% bleed.

[hidden kettle]

even as omni we had issues on stego hitting you while pounced to it 😄

[keen plover]

If you pounce close you can cancel the swing rn

[hidden kettle]

and thats kinda f`d 😄

[keen plover]

Long pounces will get you killed

So for now, you can drop an average stego solo

Not intended, but it is funny

[hidden kettle]

its just wierd how a stego can hit something way to far from it / far in frot of its head thats what gets me there 😄

[slim dragon]

desync

[hidden kettle]

would say so but not if 6 peeps get the same experience all the time 😄

[keen plover]

yeah tbf desync. The player you're fighting probably has bad ping or something. Even then the game can be a bit messy at times

[hidden kettle]

thats what i meant like is that just a wierd hitreg issue ? 😄

[keen plover]

If I have 150 ping and hit you on my screen, then you die. Even if it was a clean pounce on your 40 ping connection

[hidden kettle]

because i cant believe it supposed to let em hit something in front of it with the tail that should not even reach its head 😄

[hidden kettle]

ye client based connection as everywhere else id say 😄

[slim dragon]

Actually stego's tail was much more flexible irl than it is in-game

[hidden kettle]

bruh but it cand rubberband infront of it gettin more lenght than it has thats the point 😄

[slim dragon]

The issue is when one computer says an attack didn't hit and the other says the attack did hit (because of ping, lag or desync) the game always prioritises the computer who says the attack hit.
Therefore you very often get hit when clearly out of range, because someone has a lot of ping

[hidden kettle]

and im gettin so sick to those hit regs that im not even touchin those stegs anymore ...

[hidden kettle]

ye client wise i know but how am i supposed to get one of these fairly killed if they just go rubberband outta here ima 360tail your a** back to lobby 😄

[slim dragon]

Right now you cannot really "fairly kill" a stego unless you're playing deino, or another herbivore
All carnivores are pretty much busted rn
Omni and troodon with pounce
Carno with instant charge
Cera with vomitlock
Deino is just deino (although it's finally been nerfed in its ease of survival)

[hidden kettle]

well if you would be able to vomit that stego.. but its gonna kill ya in 2(!) hits. havein tons of health. and keeps tailing ya in front of it. so even if you trade hit you need like 60 dudes ( sayin too mcuh obv) to get that job done.
that thing can luckily kill a deino.

ive hunted a lot of carnos today with my friends at eeezz compared to a single frontfliptail stego 😄

[dusky surge]

cera should not take 2 hits for a stego to kill imho. It should take one

[dusky surge]

carnos are not even a third of stego's size, of course they're easier

[slim dragon]

of course stego kills cera in two hits (which is already a lot to say regarding cera's resistance)
and OF COURSE carno is much easier to kill than stego, its 1/3rd of its size

[dusky surge]

even though carnos are also absurdly strong for said size

[hidden kettle]

i know carno is much less but these fightin in packs of 3 wich makes stuff interesting then.
i just feel that stego should not be able to tail in front of it that far thats all in gettin there 😄
i wont even discuss it got a lot of health and ye it makes tons of dmg that makes it kinda high risk high reward.

[hidden kettle]

well make it one no problem would accept that if i had a chance to a blind spot of its tail instead of that wierd 360 thing 😄

[golden coral]

The stego turns as it jabs forward, hence the reach is more or less where its head used to be. It's not really hitting things in front of it, it's hitting them when they are going for it's head. Which is a risk you're taking, the entire point of stego is to have that "360" reach (mostly good on the flanks, the only fast attack is very limited in angle). It's one of the few that can do so, most others are way more limited in their attack ranges. What you can do is bait a swing forward, then have a packmate ready to go in for where the stego will be turning to. Or just bait the attack in general, aside from the side jab, the attacks are quite slow.

[hidden kettle]

ye thats what we try most of the time either followup shots or bait its stamina.
well nice to know it supposed to hit kinda its own head. Problem is sometimes its like half a dino lenght ifront of it, hittin a enemy that doenst even "trade" a hit then. If those would trade i would be totally fine with that cuase i know i risk gettin beaten up by those giants. So i get the conclusion that those times we had must have been more a real hitreg issue due to latency/netcode/other stuff .
Was just pretty confused that it could hit us that far tho. Like it really was quite far on a distance you would not even think about try to bite far.

[golden coral]

Most of the time it is performance issues yes, from what I know stego has a really good hitbox. And you could always go on a free admin server with a friend, have one of you go stego and learn how it moves and attacks, if you're uncertain on just how the tail moves and where it can and can not reach.

[hidden kettle]

ye might check that out a few times then.
it just wierd as you wont get a bite on its head like you are too far but its tail hits you, even on those fake runs you have plenty of space 😄
as said a trade would be absoloutly fine dieing for because of the taken risk but those rubberbandings 😄

[golden coral]

Yeah, strange things do happen, but most of the time it's not really the playable that is to blame (aside from when carno had three times its charge hitbox, that really was a hitbox issue)

But unless you're like more or less touching snouts, I don't think the stego tail should be hitting you.

[hidden kettle]

well nice to know we have been just really unlucky on that stegos today then 😄
nah speakin of like a cera belly space between that was what made it that wierd .. was nearly room for another to run between and just wanted to make it uncomfy so it may gets aggressive and missplays but nooope there goes the stego sting 😄

[coarse blaze]

Weirdly enough with Gateway I feel like deino is completely fine now, the population seems okay and you're not seeing them everywhere.

Ceras too I don't see that often and when I do they're actually eating corpses and such.

I haven't seen a megapack of anything other than big pack creatures thus far.

[dusky surge]

for the first time ever, i'm just... fine with deino

gateway is SO close to being balanced tbh

the only outliers are carno and omni, who are far too strong

also dryo and hypsi feel too weak

[coarse blaze]

I just have no idea why either got buffed to begin with, omni I felt was completely fine for the most part with the tap-pouncing being the biggest issue; I could live with the face pouncing. Plus it's getting the grapple mechanic supposedly so it didn't need more.

I know they've been so unsure how to handle carno but the fact it can just get up and go is absurd. I know it needs some work but this was not the right call for it.

Dryo and Hypsi I think are clear cut examples of neglected playables and for whatever reason aren't being touched really.

[dusky surge]

carno's accel is honestly fine imho, as long as the damage on charge is reduced

[coarse blaze]

My main complaint is the hitbox

Carno can hit knockdown things it really shouldn't be hitting, what's the point of having a bad turning radius in order for more agile creatures to avoid you - if your hitbox is just going to overcompensate it?

[dusky surge]

hitbox honestly isnt that big an issue comparitively

[coarse blaze]

How much does carno's charge do? Does body placement matter?

I want to say 300 or so but I'm not sure

[cosmic pelican]

Its 350iirc

On a bodyshot

[pseudo mica]

FIX THE GOD DAMN FOOD AND WATER DRAIN games so trash right now

[dusky surge]

350

Its dumb

[balmy briar]

@fierce crypt

#balance-feedback message i kinda agree. Bucking should be free of stam cost infact imo, so you can punish raptors who dump their entire stam bar into you and run away with their last 30%

or at least be very very cheap to do

(coming from a omni player)

[hidden kettle]

ye crocs aint that big thing gettin back to a real jumpscare due to not have one in every squareinch of water 😄
ye see some ceras and only manged to get one mega pack up since gateway release (was like 8 ceras). those big packs are very hard to keep tho because of food thb 😄

[hidden kettle]

if you got a raptor on ya just whipe it off useing a tree or a wall , theres plenty of em after taht raptor will fall off and has to get up again, leadin to the chance of a free hit on it 🙂
Carnos should get rid of em real quick due to fast bleeding, so i would recommend useing a tree for example right away. ( never tried to wiggle em off and runs pretty good that way )

should they get rid of that instnat charge of carnos and pachys ? i think so .. 😄
let rem run at least 1-2 dino lenght 😄

[slim dragon]

If pachy must run before charging then might as well remove its charge

[hidden kettle]

isnt it the same as on carnos ? like just click it.. where does the momentum come from then ? 😄

[slim dragon]

From rearing up
Pachy's ram is supposed to be a defensive ability
If you gotta run up to your enemy in order to use it ruins its entire point

[hidden kettle]

well thats agood point but why can some like spam it that hard 😄
that doesnt feels defenive 😄 just seen a raptor gettin stunlocked by a tiny bonker that poor guy stood no chance 😄

[slim dragon]

Well pachy is designed to counter raptor

And if it was stunned it probably means it was smaller than the pachy
Unless they brought it back

[hidden kettle]

but like no chance perma stunlock ? 😄
nah its just bullying a half way cera now 😄
*sub adult
** that seems abuseive xD
peeps always gonna abouse what they can ... ig 😄

[coarse blaze]

They might think the head fracture is the stun (?)

[hidden kettle]

They should nerv bacteria bite tbh.. we can be way to aggressive pukelockin peeps.. should more be a over time follow your prey like a komodo dragon thing be... or at least cap thoses on max 3 pukes 😄

[hidden kettle]

xD

[coarse blaze]

Bacteria bite was previously worse

But it is for sure very strong, I know as a FS cera I just spam bit a FG pachy who broke it's leg and it didn't stand a chance once it puked.

[hidden kettle]

its kinda too mich imo.
love to play cera but those bites gettin also abuuuused man 😄

[coarse blaze]

I think so long as they make it so they only get bile via rot I'm fine with it because at least they're getting rid of actual trash.

A trade I'd be fine with

[hidden kettle]

ye tht how it should work but you get it out of everywhere.. fresh organs kinda rott in seconds to fill bacteria full in an instant. should at least loose bacteria over time maybe so wen need to keep em up imo 😄

[coarse blaze]

You do have a fair point I won't argue, I didn't consider pulling organs for the sake of them rotting

[hidden kettle]

kinda too ez to have that and pukelock .. doenst feels realy balanced either 😄

[hidden kettle]

ye and still gives diets ..
btw rotten meat has a bug ..
a dead Teno should give you hexagon ..even if rotten. but if its rotten (as every other body) and you ripp pure meat off it (not organs) its giveing you S all the time ...
by just eatin of it you get hexa
should report that 😄

[hidden kettle]

@median crow Hunger drain should be more on Carnos since they are way bigger/ have more weight. that makes sense imo.. but have to admit it can get kinda tricky on carnos sometimes because it is sort of a lot 😄
but yea totally agree with you that instant charge isnt the buff it needed compared to other problems it has 😄

[median crow]

the hunger is balanced out already because of the fact that it's only capable of eating normal meat, travels slower than any other carnivore over long distances , its a literal predator and cant even eat bones. When do you ever see a carno nest, right its never I wonder why

if it's drains was the same as the ceras, cera would still have a huge advantage because of its smell radius and the fact that it can eat anything

[halcyon elk]

Carno is in bursts the fastest animal in the game bar gallimimus in a flock buff, and ptera

[median crow]

yea but for finding food running over long distances is the msot important thing

or smelling

[median crow]

@proven jackal probably a bug

[proven jackal]

maybe

[hidden kettle]

dont run at all 😄
i nearly never had food issues as Carno/cera/raptor tho..
get used to the map and the whloe new enviorment i guess <.<
you need to listen more than just look for it. sound gives ya way more often food than sight imo ;D
Why is hunger balanced out by diet / normal meat ?! thats prefered food to buff you not to survive after all.. can eat the same food as Raptors/Troodons as well...
if you starve because its not your diet.. then gl starvin 😄

btw readin this now
i sound more aggressive readin myself as it should tho wasnt supposed to be offending much 😄

[normal ginkgo]

i copy that... listening has saved me lots of times

[maiden stag]

well, before i used to be able to kill juvies as ptera, now that is a bit hindered. currently im the biggest menace to fish and turtles but at least im alive LOL

[normal ginkgo]

thats the spirit, frogs are good training too

[hidden kettle]

fr 😄

[hidden kettle]

ye frogs be like emergency raptor food 😄

[normal ginkgo]

or bait for beipis >:D

[hidden kettle]

ye 😄

[balmy briar]

idk boss, id just release the pounce before ud crash into said wall/tree, and if u stay there, thats your call, but il be trotting away as far i can , and if u want food u gonna have to come off that wall/tree :p

tho id pounce again , ofc risking getting hit, since i didnt rlly nail a clean one yet

[hidden kettle]

ye depends on whos patient enough and plays taht better just wanted to mention whipein rappis off by that 😄

[distant torrent]

@torn stream buffing herbivores would be better tbh. the current herbivore selection is pathetic against the current carnivore selection

[torn stream]

I dunno about that. The problem is less that the herbivore are weak. The problem is more that they just aren't in packs, like they're should be

most likely because there aren't enough herbivore players...

[dusky surge]

The herbis are weak though

That's very much part of the issue

[distant torrent]

^ yep. there were a lot more tenos back when carno wasn’t an absolute powerhouse that could charge through tail slams without any consequence

when things aren’t powerful enough to comfortably defend and survive, less people play them. why?

because why waste hours of your time only to be unfairly killed by overtuned playables

[torn stream]

Maybe, I dunno exactly. Just started playing this game after watching hours of it on YT^^

[dusky surge]

fair

the game currently has a herbivore nerf issue

[distant torrent]

that’s okay! it’s takes a bit to get used to how each playable works

[torn stream]

Also GIVE TRICERATOPS! They're always bangers!

[dusky surge]

Good news

They're working on Trike

[torn stream]

this is poggers. I wanna headbutt a carno with it

[distant torrent]

I think you’d completely impale and thanos snap the carno lol

[torn stream]

I remember watching a documentation series once where they let different dinosaurus fight against each other and they actually showed that a triceratops attacking head first would be a very bad idea. It would shatter it's jaw completely

[hidden kettle]

to be fair i would make herbies grow way faster than carnis to motivate people to play herbie more.
If a Teno for example woul grow fast ( and i mean fast like bit slower than troodons maybe ) i would go for herbies a lot.
really like the "throwaway" side of troodons/beipis and play those for fun a lot.
On carni side i almost everytime go cera because it got kinda the best Grow/use time 😄

[slim dragon]

Well that's wrong, most of the "Trike couldn't charge" studies were made by people who wanted to prove trike couldn't kill a rex.
But in this game most of what the animals can do isn't realistic anyway

[torn stream]

I never said that a trike should straight up die in the game when attacking someone headfirst lmao. I just had this thought when we were talking about them

[slim dragon]

So instead of making herbis balanced you'd make all of them throwaway dinos ?
Oh look,your 1.6 ton teno was killed in minutes by a solo raptor with no chance of fighting back, but you only wasted 40 minutes growing it, so it's fine, right ?

[slim dragon]

I know
Just don't believe this kind of hasty study
Trike WAS a menace

[torn stream]

I remember that they made their own artificial 1:1 trike skull and let it ram something at high speed to find out what happend

[slim dragon]

Oh THAT study
Yeah it's terrible and wrong in so many ways

They said they tried to simulate a "trike charging a rex"
But first, they reconstructed the skull wrong, with horns pointing sideways
They didn't add anything to simulate muscle, cartilage, or keratin, or any of the elements that actually makes animals don't fall apart
And they just propelled it at like 50 km/h against a concrete wall that was "supposed" to simulate a rex's body
Like rexes are made of concrete smh

[torn stream]

I have no idea. Saw this years ago when I was younger and full into dinos

yeah, I think this was it lmao. They did it in a hilariously bad way when I think about it

[dusky surge]

Dear God carno is just insufferable

I hate fighting it, so much

It's just flat unfun

The skill ceiling is so goddamn low lol

[forest flower]

Gateway carno is a miserable fight. It's like deino now where you just "look at target, rmb, win"

Ceras used to shred them even outnumbered and with broken carno hitbox.

[shadow vortex]

While playing teno it’s so ‘nice’ to see how my hp goes to red only from 3 charges to my TAIL and a few bites to body. Although carno doesn’t suffer at all as it seems from my damn 3 kicks to head and 3 to body, bruh

[dusky surge]

literally just "stay out of range, attack, repeat"

[shadow vortex]

To be even more precise, 3 charges to the tip of my tail. Like wth?

[slim dragon]

350 base damage goes brrrr

[forest flower]

Staying out of range would be a lot easier if carno didn't have a hitbox 5 times the size of its ugly little head

[sturdy sundial]

Love this map...but Dam i dont want to spend 30 percent of my game play time starring at my screen waiting for regain. Specialy pt. If you have to hunt fly over the montains or land and take off. So borring. commiting to staring at your screen. constantly instead of playing the game really effects the enjoyment of playing at all.

[frail bobcat]

why did you repost this in the wrong channel?

[sturdy sundial]

I was trying to find a good spot to post this. Then it said to post this in balance ?

following directions

[frail bobcat]

you already posted in the correct channel, this is the channel to discuss the stuff posted in the other channel

[sturdy sundial]

ok it gave a link said please discuss this in Balance. Sorry must have misunderstood

[hidden kettle]

nah didnt meant it that way... but would make em grow slightly faster than their carnivour counterparts. Tenos could grow 2 instead of 3 hrs for example .. growing slow as a carno doesnt seems fair compared in growtime/useage just my opinon but i think that would get people more to play herbies...

[hidden kettle]

still do if you can dodge ram attacks. but ye intant ram is a thing. would let em still insta ram if they make ram damage get more over distance so a 2m charge woul make less damage than elts say 10m sprint before hitting.
would also make sense they get momentum first for it 😄

[fleet silo]

Guys, how u think, what buff deino need and what nerf stego need?

[slim dragon]

none and none

[fleet silo]

Deino bite is weak, in reality it way more stronger

[slim dragon]

It's a game
The bite is strong enough for its purpose

[fleet silo]

I think it need to be like 700-850

[slim dragon]

For what ?

[fleet silo]

Dmg from bite

[slim dragon]

Deino already has a move that oneshots everything it's supposed to be hunting

[fleet silo]

Stego now is strongest

[slim dragon]

It never was, and still isn't

[fleet silo]

I think it so unfair for deink users

[slim dragon]

Deino is unfair for everything else so it's ok

[fleet silo]

Just see, deino can kill stego if he have a good tactic like to fight at riverside and try to make fight in water, stego literally destroys everything at 1v1

Stego 1 shot cerato and carno

I think stego need a bit dmg nerf

But bleed buff

It will be a fair for all other dinos, because stego cant one shot by damage, only bleed can kill

It be fair for all:teno, carno, cerato and deino

[slim dragon]

It wouldn't be fair because stego is a lot bigger and shouldn't be a target for cera and carno

[fleet silo]

Even 6 ceratos can't defeat skilled stego

[slim dragon]

they can

[fleet silo]

It literally one shot them

[fleet silo]

I solo killing 5 teno on stego

And solo 2 deinos

It not fair

[golden coral]

I'd say deino needs nerfs, stego needs buffs. Stego is quite badly designed and weak for what a stego could be, and deino is already one of the most survivable, capable and powerful playables. Even considering current omni and pouncers in general.

[slim dragon]

Teno is bad rn
And if 2 deinos die to one stego it means they're bad

[golden coral]

Only on headshots. And only cera without a body buff. On top of that, deino "one shots" both of those, and everything up to 4T with the lunge. Be it by drowning or by just taking something out in the river and then biting it while it tries to swim away.

[golden coral]

Not that teno, carno, or cerato should engage with a stego anyway. And you can vomit and "vomit lock" a stego as ceratos. Can do it in pairs or trios, no need for overpacking.

[golden coral]

At least teno can fight now with stamina changes. Too bad carno and omni and potentially troodon are as they are xD

[fleet silo]

Deino no need nerf

It fair or need buff

[golden coral]

Neither does stego, but if either of them do need nerfs, it'd be deino, since comparatively, it's far better off

Deino is inherently unfair in how it works

[fleet silo]

Deino gameplay is interesting in this mechanic,

[golden coral]

Depends on if you're the deino or not I guess

[fleet silo]

I very like crocodiles, deino is made for me

[golden coral]

Fair, but it should be fun on both sides, and dealing with deino isn't really fun or engaging

And it's pretty much invincible, similar to ptera

[fleet silo]

Ptera need biggest buff ever

It literally unplayable trash now

[slim dragon]

You said 5 ceras to kill a stego was unfair but how many ceras does it take to kill a deino ?
No amount of ceras can kill one

[golden coral]

Well, they can, if the deino insists on staying on land long enough I guess

[slim dragon]

Just like a solo dryo can kill a stego then I guess

[fleet silo]

After last update 4 ceras enough

Deino on low stamina and hp need 7 hits to kill cera

[golden coral]

How are you counting?

[slim dragon]

They can't if said deino is even remotely competent

[golden coral]

With and without body buff for that matter? And well, deino can just go into water

[fleet silo]

I have admin on 1 server

[golden coral]

Yes but. Deino does 500 damage, cerato, without buffs, have 1300 health

[fleet silo]

I just grow my friend, he give me low hp and i count hits

[golden coral]

You kill it in three body bites

[slim dragon]

So you're only starting to fight once you're low health ?

[fleet silo]

How to get buff on cera?

[golden coral]

Sure, if it has a large enough corpse to buff, you'll need twice that amount

[fleet silo]

No, but 4 ceras can easily kill dein9

But ceras need to be very skilled

[slim dragon]

Again, not if deino is anything but braindead

Just go back into water
And snatch one of the ceras while you're at it

[golden coral]

Corpses, if you don't move them around (or eat from them, I think as well). You can get up to 50% damage resistance I believe, unless things have changed

[golden coral]

And two ceras can kill a stego... Since they can vomit and bleed it/"cancel" attacks. While deino is immune to vomit.

[fleet silo]

I think balance need to be like that
Deino>stego>carno>cera>teno>raptor>pachy>gally>beipi>ptera>troo>dryo

[slim dragon]

That'd be awful

[fleet silo]

Why?

Carno deserves be strong

[slim dragon]

eat grass and die

[golden coral]

Poor dryo... also no, ptera should be the weakest, followed by beipi and then troodon or so probably, since they're smaller and have other advantages. And deino should not be more powerful than stego, it already has most of the advantages. Aside from that, omni should not be above pachy due to offense vs defense, though galli can be a lower due to being able to run. And carno should be powerful, but not that powerful, since it's at the end of the day a small midtier. And cerato is meant to be a corpse bully, so it should be able to steal food from carnos.

[fleet silo]

It 1v1 tier

[golden coral]

Well if you're going 1v1 then your list is even worse far as I can tell of how balance should be

[fleet silo]

I think ptero need buff, stego need nerf, dryo need buff, carno and deino need a tiny buff, cera and teno is fair

[slim dragon]

Imagine wanting raptor to win against pachy 1v1

[fleet silo]

I can

But it a hard

Very very hard

But in potential raptor>pachy

At 1v1 pachy=>raptor

[golden coral]

First off, currently omni shreds pachy, and secondly, pachy should absolutely be stronger than omni

[golden coral]

Well, I disagree. Carno and deino needs nerfs, or adjustments. Stego need buffs/rework to be better in general, cerato vomit needs a look. Ptera could use slightly better stam but is otherwise fine.

[fleet silo]

If pachy skilled, it easily kills raptor and even 60-70 growth cera

[golden coral]

Omni needs nerfs/reworks, or bugfixes, or most of the others needs buff to handle omni, and troodon needs fixes since it's potentially also bugged, and/or needs some kind of adjustment

[fleet silo]

Perfect stats for carno, deino and stego
Stego: hp 6000,dmg 700-900
Deino:hp 8000, dmg 700-850
Carno: hp 2100 dmg 180

[slim dragon]

bruh no way

[golden coral]

No, absolutely not. Stego could do with 8K health/weight however, keep the damage. Deino damage is perfectly fine, no need to change it. And carno does not need more health/weight or damage buff. Unless you severely nerf the charge, in which case you could up the bite damage a little perhaps.

You can not be serious, thinking carno needs better stuff unless you also nerf it in other ways. Deino is plenty powerful, the last thing it needs is more damage on top of everything. And stego is quite underpowered for what it could be, why would you nerf it's damage even more, when it's attacks are well, not really that great. Maybe if we got a moving jab/swing and so on, that could be at those damage values, but not the current stationary locked attack.

[fleet silo]

Stego hp is perfect, dmg is overpowered

Stego headshot literally does 2600 dmg, it unfair at all other dinos

[golden coral]

No, it really isn't. As it stands, rex and trike will just walk all over stego. It needs the damage, and better attacks, to handle them. And could use the extra health/weight to put up a better fight, since otherwise damage might have to scale even more to survive.

[fleet silo]

Headshot is easily to land

[golden coral]

It does 2500, and no, headshots are not easy to land. Also, unfair to what dinos? None of the roster should even fight a stego, any more than they should fight a deino or rex.

Deino is even more unfair to the roster, since at least cerato, omni, troodon, and teno can kill a stego. A deino just either fights them off due to massive bleed resist and 8K health, or just goes into water and ignores them entirely. Something stego can't do half as well, even with terrain, since you can starve/dehydrate it using group numbers and all. Meanwhile, deino has potential food in the water that you can't prevent it from getting.

It would however, be better to up stego to 8K as well, especially since rex and trike might be even heavier still, than up the damage even more. Though I imagine the new attacks might do more damage, they do look quite brutal. I still hope we get some form of mobile attack too, since stego is quite lacking without.

[fleet silo]

Who be strongest, trike, rex or deino?

[golden coral]

Rex most likely, then trike. But we do have giga, shant, anky, stego, acro and so on. I would imagine 1v1 rex and trike are the undisputed most powerful ones. Deino is designed to lunge and hunt things up to 4T currently, it's not really a contender for being that powerful as the rest in sheer fighting ability.

[slim dragon]

Trike should be stronger than rex
Because I can't imagine a trike outrunning or hiding from a rex

[golden coral]

True, it should, but you know, eat grass and die!

[hidden kettle]

Rex.. should just grab trike at its neck drit it down and have lunch 😄
Deino already is more than Strong enough id say due to be a hunter drowning everything atm 😄
you can even drown subadult stegos so.. why shoud it get more bitefore to fight ?
could have 0 biteforce without havein problems atm 😄
its not supposed to be a fighter 😄
even tho whatever hits the water and take a swim is dead anyways 😄

think with bigger predators like allo/giga/rex the stego might even need a buff 😄

[shadow vortex]

Ernest Hemingway once argued...

After reading all of this I just forgot what wanted to ask

[knotty harbor]

I'm not going to lie I hate this argument, unless they plan to increase stegos size and make it a legit apex at 6 to 8 tons it shouldn't be handling rex or trike lol

Having said that I'm fine with its current dmg and getting an upward swing

[golden coral]

Well, I guess they could make it run, or just not have it share the same server as the others

[stark knoll]

How much do you think stego weighs right now?

[golden coral]

But if stego is meant to encounter the other large/apex critters, it'd need a way to survive, and fighting makes more sense than running for a stego

[knotty harbor]

4 something

[stark knoll]

6000kg

It was 4 when it first got added

[knotty harbor]

Is it an apex smarty pants?

[stark knoll]

????

[golden coral]

The new jab/swing might have more damage, or just have other effects, or even be good enough to handle trike and rex as it is. It remains to be seen

[golden coral]

And got shredded by pretty much everything, even dryos xD

[stark knoll]

Ok well what I'm getting at is we don't know how big rex and trike will be

[golden coral]

Granted it wasn't only because of the weight/health but still

[stark knoll]

They might be 6, or 8, or even 10

[knotty harbor]

I'm going to assume big lol

[stark knoll]

Back when damage and hp values were whack

[golden coral]

Omnis shredding a stego in one go, good times!

[knotty harbor]

I'd honestly prefer it to just bleed stuff hard so if rex tries it it'll just bleed out before the stego dies, outright dmg to me for stego seems weird

[shadow vortex]

Welp now we're back to basics, so to speak

[golden coral]

Also what should and shouldn't handle each other is a little... well, balance is what it is xD

[knotty harbor]

Yeah it's balanced by growing faster lol

[golden coral]

I'd be fine with that. I'd prefer a stego that walks away while threatening/getting chip damage or bleed in. Problem is if something can just tank the tail and get to the head and kill it before it dies. Also mutually assured destruction is.... questionable at best. People can be quite spiteful in this game after all.

[golden coral]

Nothing new, omni fluctuates between broken good or broken bad xD

[knotty harbor]

I like acro cause biases but I also think it will be dumb if it can just take on everything

[golden coral]

If, something grows faster, and it works in relation to the power it gets and all

[knotty harbor]

Basically I think 1v1 stego should ward stuff off with some of the best bleed in the game and 2 stegos should be able to kill any solo carnivore but if an apex finds one alone it should be enough bleed to really make them think if it's worth it

[slim dragon]

The idea that stego should do more bleed than raw damage is weird to me
Like getting thagomized would make you bleed out and not just instantly die because your heart and lungs just gor replaced by massive bone spikes

Slashing wounds cause a lot of bleeding because that cause large openings, with many severed veins and arteries at once and lots of blood loss
Piercing wounds just cause you to die because of organ failure
If you somehow survive the hit, then you can worry about bleeding out, but that whouldn't be the main aspect of it

[knotty harbor]

I literally said I'm fine with the current dmg. I said it should get more bleed instead of increased dmg to deal with apexs

[slim dragon]

That's what I disagree with
Thagomizers aren't for bleeding things out
They are for impaling

[knotty harbor]

I guess we do disagree then.

[golden coral]

Internal bleeding could be interesting though

Thagomizers, ceratopsid horns

[knotty harbor]

We disagree alot so it's not surprising lol

[golden coral]

Sure, you do a decent chunk of damage because well, big horn skewering your body, but internal bleeding on top of that as a more lethal form of bleeding due to trashed inside would be interesting

[knotty harbor]

Also when people get impaled they don't instantly die they bleed out. If you hit a vital organ sure but majority of the time blood loss is the cause of death from impalement

Can't help but imagine it works the same for other animals

[knotty harbor]

Agree

[median crow]

a raptor/troodon takes 50% longer to starve, do you think saying that they both only eat fresh meat like carno is a good argument when it comes to starvation? now dont say thats fine just because carno weighs more, it also has to eat way more food already so why would on top of that its hunger drain faster as well? Its just trash balancing as usual and stop putting a smilling emoji behind every single sentence it does not make you seem any nicer. It actually makes me wonder if you are trolling or something is wrong

[hidden kettle]

i mean that hunger is measured by its weight. That makes sense so far so why is there a problem after all ? 😄
ye Raptors can eat same stuff as Carnos can but need way less .. they also weight like a 1/5 of a carno tho.. (dont tell me its a 3/8 or what ever dont have the exact number in ma head rn 😄 )
i can smiley as much as i want tho <.<
no need to be that cheese after all

[violet yew]

@golden coral we were talking about omnis the other day right? and you and somelse told me omnis could take down a cera? you were right 3 of us just deleted a cera

once you pounce and mantle the stamina barely goes down

i lose more stamina from missing than i do from staying on

[golden coral]

Sounds about right. With the current state of pounce, omni and troodon are quite broken. No alt attacks while being pounced/delay of a second on dismount so no fear there either (no attacks aside from bite for pachy and stego). Bucking being so nerfed you apparently can hang on for 15 seconds or more (at least on pachy, not sure if others have better buck but I doubt it, it was a global change after all. Speaking of, was that cera you hunted bucking?), and apparently high damage on omni pounce as well (I think I heard about 350, which would match with the claims that four omnis deletes a cera in raw damage before they get bucked off, at least one without a decent body buff).

So if there were three of you, I'm guessing the cera either died to bleed, or you could finish it off with another pounce or two, or just bites/alt bites.

[violet yew]

no he didnt buck at all, he couldve just been inexperienced... he ended up bleeding out actually. at one point 3 of us were latched on at the same time, miracously. i would say though, if a raptor gets knocked down, it takes a long time to get back up. long enough to get finished off. i got knocked and got bit twice by the cera if he wouldve got me another time i would have died

we all pounced and stayed on until about half stamina, it doesnt take alot of stamina to stay on there at all

[golden coral]

Shame, would have been interesting to see how the stam drain would have been. But yeah, pounce cost was also reduced, so that makes sense, I think that was also a global change for all two of our pouncers. And true, getting knocked down is dangerous, but I think it's meant to be more or less a "you really messed up, better pray you do not die".

[lavish wing]

were can i find the gateway code

[violet yew]

it moved to the evrima branch

[lavish wing]

thanks

i don't see it

[stark knoll]

Right click The Isle in your Steam library, click Properties, click Betas, click the drop-down bar and select evrima. Steam will start downloading the new version

[dusky surge]

<@&933486433342222376> im sure you'd be interested in this free discord nitro

[hollow canyon]

Internal bleeding as the effect of a puncture with a sharp spike occurs really only when you hit a big blood vessel, it's hardly a necessity in such a case.. The main issue you worry about in such a case is the possibility of ribs being broken, a chance that a pneumothorax develops(which makes breathing difficult to impossible) and other damage to internal organs(of course the possibility of a major blood vessel being stricken is also scary).

Bleeding out is always down to whether blood vessels are hit. It generally depends on where the hit lands. The proximal side of the femur? The victim bleeds out. The chest, almost definitely a haemothorax, possibly the heart gets ruptured, maybe a major blood vessel gets hit as there's aorta and in that case the target hit indeed bleeds out.

It's difficult to reflect that in a game.

[odd pebble]

Quick question. Do all pouncers disable alt attacks from the defender no matter the size of the pouncer?

[keen plover]

Correct

[odd pebble]

[unborn iris]

I like the thought of deinos using rain to move to other bodies of water. Haven't played it any this update to weigh in on the Stam stuff though.

[distant torrent]

nah, that’d make the intended difficulty gateway was intended to bring to deinos pretty nullified. the idea of them needing to get to specific areas young to grow is a lot better since it’s still a rmb-to-delete-all-progress playable

honestly imo

I feel like deino should have a 30 second cooldown before it can lunge again or even bite after a lunge

atm it doesn’t even need to drown players. lunging to keep them from getting away then biting is far more effective and presents no chance for escape with a competent deino. at least with drowning, you still have a chance of escaping if the deino was careless with stam

[dusky surge]

a lunge cooldown unironically makes more sense than a carno charge cooldown

[unborn iris]

Restricting them to small ponds for the rest of their lives after juvenile is added difficulty?

Eventually there will be much more stuff the deino won't want to get caught migrating to another water source by.

Having to plan a move and wait for a wet period makes sense. You still gamble with your life.

But in the end I'm not really arguing that deino needs anything, it is easy mode with way too much power in the games' current state. I agree with that.

I just like the idea of deino moving to other bodies of water depending on circumstances and luck.

[distant torrent]

if it wasn’t a rmb-to-delete-all-progress playable, then sure

[hollow canyon]

what the hell? Why in the world would this be a thing?

[dusky surge]

idk but it def is

[hollow canyon]

did the devs struggle with fixing that issue where alt attacks were connecting with the things that were pouncing?

[alpine snow]

Eh, I think Omni was honestly too good on Spiro as well. When I played it, I killed anything that wasn't deino or Cera as a solo player and just ran/jumped to cover when I was getting swarmed as a solo player. For clarification, I agree Omni is stupid right now. Just disagreeing on the comment of it "being fine before".

Though, balancing Omni is sort of a hit-or-miss. You have a Dino that is supposed to hunt in packs, but you want to make it viable solo as well otherwise players who have small friend groups will just suffer playing it.

If you can pounce too easily, it's way too strong. If you can't pounce enough, it's too weak. You have a Dino that relies on one ability and agility to be viable while also attempting to make it viable to play solo.

Not saying it's impossible to balance, either. I just think Omni, no matter what direction you go, is going to feel overwhelming if they have a few members in a pack or if you're fighting a skilled solo player.

That's just my opinion, though. Feel free to disregard any of this

Also,

@analog mirage

Your statement comes off as very detached and dismissive. People are complaining because:

1. It's a very large map with a player count that doesn't accurately represent it

2. Hunger/Thirst drains too high for the mobility allowed for most of the roster

3. Combat feels pretty awful when you lose too much Stam and can't recover it before another fight could occur or you starve.

Just because they plan on buffing something doesn't mean people don't have the right to complain right now especially if those changes don't have 100% to fix the issue.

You could have, instead, approached the situation optimistically and provided your reasoning as to why you think the system is fine. Instead, you give a very dismissive statement and then act as if using all of your Stamina is now entirely the player's fault even if they are in an environment in which they can't reliably get food/distance.

(Swapped it over kitty cat mod)

[dusky surge]

you're right, omni was too good in U6.5, yet this is better somehow

it's somehow managed to exceed its already high power

[hidden kettle]

deino isnt trapped anywhere .. you can make it as adult from highlands to bridge pond from there to southplain river from southplain river to west rail pond and from that you can go north to the other river .. i made it multiple times this night on eu1 ... got 2 crocs with a firend in west rail atm 😄

so no crocs are able to get everywhere still as grown up ( but yes it is really close and you need to know the path you take ) if anything slows you down / attacks you.. you wont make it due to being close to the edge of dieing (on the way bridgepond-Highlands or other way around wich is the hardest way imo )

[unborn iris]

Nice.

I haven't played much croc, so basing it off what people are saying. But I know how that goes. Glad to get some info from someone who's tried it.

[hidden kettle]

just wanna say to those who think its not managable .. it is. i know its really hard and risky and its far from fun but its doable 😄
im not a croc main as well mostly cera / raptors but im quite falimiar with the map since stresstest ... wich had croc on all that locations so i knew there must be a way at least as puppy ... so i challenged myself since yesterday morning til like 3hrs ago and ried all the ways as adult .. aaaaand yes ... i had to grow 3-4 crocs for that wich was pretty lame tbh 😄

yes i havent slept since then >.< 😄

[amber eagle]

@fierce stirrup either they were not 100% or those deinos were horrendously bad

[fierce stirrup]

they where 100% it was mostly the facti got the jump on them and not the other way around bc i could see their eyes glowing under water. they went to stun me with the lunge but i was already mid swing animation so it canceled out

[amber eagle]

i mean they shouldnt be hunting steg anyway as deinos are suppose to be small game

hunters

[fierce stirrup]

unfortunatly stegos size to weight is very missleeading 68% looks very small

[golden coral]

So, basically they stood a bad chance due to being able to see their glowing eyes, and that's about it. The only quick attack is the side jab, which has a very specific angle, and thus can be avoided.

Because well, yeah, a deino that lunges a too big stego gets stunned. You're going to hurt from that, especially if you end up in that bad angle.

[fierce stirrup]

no every angle is very fast. if something does that much damage and can undo hours of peoples lives it shouldnt be that quick

[golden coral]

Though you would have needed a few more hits than usual if you were that "tiny". Maybe they weren't fully grown either, they too can look varied in size compared to power

[fierce stirrup]

thats what im saying, i got a lot of hits off where i really shouldnt have

[golden coral]

No, the other angles are quite slow. Also, deino is ten times worse, so you know...

[golden coral]

Except you should, you had the right angle in

[fierce stirrup]

alright i guess im just talking with a bunch of stego mains, nothing i say will let yall see how rediculous this is

[golden coral]

Like, the only issue is that you could see their eyes underwater, which is a bit odd at the least. Aside from that, the matchup is fine. Deinos do not need to go after stegos as well, they delete the entire rest of the roster in one attack, and are untouchable to everything but stego on land, and only deinos in water.

[golden coral]

Cause you're wrong. Also it doesnt matter what someone mains, thats not a valid argument. You basically think the matchup is bad when it's not. Stego is, if anything, underpowered. Deino meanwhile, remains overpowered.

[fierce stirrup]

ok Erik.

[golden coral]

Two deinos will normally easily handle a stego, and they would have, if it hadn't been for A, apparently not working together, and B, the eyeglow issue allowing you to react as early and quickly as you did

[coarse blaze]

I too disagree with your take, steg isn't really OP. Picking a fight with a massive herbivore is a bad take, you swing slow and that eats a lot of stamina. The deinos you ran into were just either inexperienced or really bad. Steg's thag is actually quite precise despite people claiming that the hitbox is generous.

Also all creatures can currently see deino eyes under the water, it's not specific to stegs. 👍

The fact they lunged at you I'd assume they were just inexperienced.

[fierce stirrup]

i really am questioning a lot of folks definition of slow

[golden coral]

Well, all the jabs aside from the specific side jab is quite slow, they're by no means quick attacks, especially not the ones furthest out front and back.

So honestly not sure why you think stego can attack very fast, it can't. Aside from the side jab, the attacks are quite easy to bait and punish.

[fierce stirrup]

im basing it on the fact that as a steg, vs raptor. raptors ( a good one) will bait out a swing then pounce, but stegs can still swing on the earliest dismount possible.

[golden coral]

And that's fast? The pounce does take a bit of time to get on and then get off. Though currently tap pouncing isn't a thing so the raptor would have to sit for a second or two to do any damage. Of course, currently the pounce prevents any jabs at all so if you get pounced, you need to get the raptor off before you can do anything but bite.

Unless, again, the specific side jab, which, well, last I heard, it's meant to be fast. So stego tries to always point its side towards the target for that specific attack.

[hidden kettle]

well mostly agree with Erik but have to say it feels not good to get hit by astego while jump off the pounce since the tail doesnt swing that high. But hey somewhere has to be a mix between visual and registration to not make like 20 animations to hit every possibility ^.^
well stego aint fast but a hard hitter and got more range than most peeps would assume approaching it 😄

[thin mantle]

The solution is to not hunt stegos on omni

Consider them an inaccessible target, like a deino anky or brachi