balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

wait, does carno have better NV than cera?

[cosmic pelican]

yeah, carnos nv is actually decent

[uncut trellis]

Yea considering this id prefer cerato have the better nv than carno

[stoic silo]

Cera night visions is crazy fr

[cobalt dagger]

As a pachy fighting a carno my own size, I could not land any rams on him. I had to dodge his charges and couldn't turn fast enough to hit him before he sprinted away from me.

Do you guys have any tips on how I could have fought him better? This was on Gateway.
I get the feeling Pachy is lack-luster too, and the experience I had reinforced this feeling

[distant torrent]

I went this entire time thinking carno had absolute dogwater nv like cera but somehow worse because I and a friend managed to lose some carnos that got the jump on us at night

so carno gets good nv on top of its new accel. fun

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy can stun a carno if it hits it mid charge, this goes for any size carno by any size pachy(even juvis too XD)

[cobalt dagger]

OH so if I hit when he's charging at me, he'll take the stun and not me?

[cosmic pelican]

Yep

[cobalt dagger]

Thank you for that tip

[cosmic pelican]

Np

[cobalt dagger]

That would have made such a big difference for me if I had known

Right now, Herbi on Gateway feels really opressed by carnivores. I haven't played stego yet though.

Does anyone else feel like that? I am playing cera now, in hopes that I can have a chance at being alive now.

[distant torrent]

yep. carno and cera still dominate. omnis are still omnis

teno is still pathetic. I attacked one as cera thinking it was ai and still destroyed it with a buddy because of vomit I genuinely felt so bad for the guy

[cosmic pelican]

Didnt even see or hear any mid/small sized herbies on gateway yet, only stegos. And a very suicidal juvi dryo, which is honestly quite sad, considering this was "the herbi update".

[distant torrent]

there was nothing he could do after that first vomit. it’s only a matter of when the vomit timer goes off again

[cobalt dagger]

Well, my cera got stuck in a tiny hole in some rocks not even an adult cera could get out of... So much for my chance to survive XD

OH hey alt bite on cera takes stam now?

I was alt-biting to try and get out of this hole and it's taking stam

[agile citrus]

why is everyone complaining about stam? the point of it is to stop you from sprinting from place to place and people still do that and moan about it when they get 0 stam. Walking exists. Use that. dont run around like a madmad and walk for gods sake

it also gives longer fights more fun as you have to be careful about your stamina in the long fights, and eventually tire out the pray

[stark knoll]

@faint timber Sitting for longer makes you regenerate faster, also you're low on bleed which really slows stamina regen

[faint timber]

I was fighting teno, bleeding or not, and my stam almost never fills up.

kamada fills up in 2 hours, they nerfed everything in canda

[strong solar]

Because it's not just running around, most animals use stam to fight and defend themselves. Also many playables have slow walks/trots that dont get you anywhere. Couple that with fast hunger drain and you have an issue. I reccomend you play the public test

The system would be better if every dinosaur had decreased stamina drain for attacks and had faster stamina regen for walking, sitting, etc. But this isn't good. There is a reason why people are not happy with it

for example if you are fighting back against 3 utahs as a pachy you are dead. You need to attack many times for each to be killed, and you may miss a few times as well. You will run out of stamina very quickly and become defenseless... which I will say is not fun

[golden coral]

Solution: Make the trots and walks useful for travel and moving, so you don't need to use stam to get around. Also adjust food and water drain if needed.

[cobalt dagger]

Teno's trot is good for travel kinda, but I think it might be the only one.

[golden coral]

Yep, teno is as usual the golden standard, troodons trot is also good, or so I've heard

So the rest should take notes and get their trots and walks updated to be useful

[thin mantle]

Also giganerf stam costs per attacks

[golden coral]

Maybe. I kind of like the idea of having to give up a hunt/fight due to lack of stam, rather than the usual "kill or be killed" style

[thin mantle]

Doesn’t matter only a couple playables have the luxury of making that decision

The playables that do can keep their high costs

[golden coral]

As well as needing a group to hunt bigger things because you'd simply run out of stamina before you can inflict any meaningful damage or bleed

[strong solar]

I found that happening ingame too but it falls apart the second the animal getting hunted runs out of stamina

[thin mantle]

Yep

[strong solar]

let me tell you being defenseless for trying to defend yourself isnt fun nor is it good game design lol

[thin mantle]

It’s only a good change if the animal in question has the speed to leave

[golden coral]

Fair, but I'd rather look at making more playables having that ability then or being able to end up like that somehow, since I do want more "exhaustion" situations, even more so if we're not meant to see health that exactly to only make decisions based on that

[strong solar]

what I like is the slow health regain. It forces people to make good decisions while hunting or else they'll spend forever healing or just die

[golden coral]

I know, I play stego, the moment you're low on stam, you're done for. But that might be solved with being able to attack/alt attack even without stam, but at some other cost

[thin mantle]

I’m not sure I fully understand what you mean when you refer to “that ability”.

[golden coral]

The whole being able to get out even at low stam, in some manner

[thin mantle]

It sorta doesn’t, if high commitment attacks can’t be dodged with movement a lot of creatures simply can’t fight

[golden coral]

Though I might think of it more in terms of giving up before you're out of stam really

[thin mantle]

I’d just prefer defensive playstyles to have a far more efficient stamina economy

[thin mantle]

I haven’t seen that actually occurring yet and I doubt it will as more time goes on, I’d love to be proven wrong but players don’t have enough reasons to think that way yet

I don’t know that they ever will

[golden coral]

I guess it might happen now that recovering stam is harder

So you know that if you do end up too low, you're going to be in the bad end for a while, so maybe make decisions on how efficiently something is going earlier on in an encounter

[thin mantle]

I genuinely haven’t been seeing that happen

[golden coral]

I don't really know, but I'd like it if people made judgements before they are in trouble

[thin mantle]

Everyone just hard commits because if they fail the hunt food will kill then anyway

[strong solar]

I was in a situation as a juvie cera trying to eat a baby galli, 5 other gallis show up and I almost get murdered. I guess we all were hurt or low on stam because we made a non verbal agreement to stop fighting and just run away from each other on the last bit of stam. On spiro that wouldn't have happened.

While I liked that I feel like it could easily get unfair and messy for other playables

[thin mantle]

Honestly the only reason you survived was because gallis aren’t carnivores and therefor can’t eat you

[golden coral]

That seems like partially an issue with food drain, partially an issue with finding enough hunting opportunities, and partially an issue with not always aiming to have food available (though ceras will be a problem there, but then ceras need to be adjusted anyway, overtuned as they are)

[thin mantle]

And don’t have primary attacks that don’t have a stam cost

[strong solar]

true

[golden coral]

Which is what I was trying to say with "I'd like more playables to be able to do that", though I don't quite know how to go about it. But that would be the kind of situation I'd like to see more often

[thin mantle]

It’s pretty easy tbh

Necessarily aggressive abilities cost more stam than defensive ones

Fix food drains obv, double or triple them even

[strong solar]

if it was utahs or smaller carnos it would have been the same though tbh. Utah pounce takes stam and carno charge takes a ton of stamina

[thin mantle]

Which wouldn’t have mattered cuz they have powerful bite attacks

Galli functionally doesn’t have a primary attack it always has to use stam to fight

Omnis and carnos don’t

[strong solar]

but if you cant chase somebody because you're out of stam you cant use said bite attack

[thin mantle]

Which you shouldn’t be with the amount of stam players have available now especially as juvis

Like they could run after you for a straight 5 minutes just using primaries

[strong solar]

uhh maybe? subjective

if they didnt waste all of their stamina doing their most powerful abilities ig

[thin mantle]

That’s just how it works I’m not sure how that could be subjective
Creatures have tons of stam to use

[strong solar]

waiting for this to happen

[thin mantle]

Yup that would be amazing

Would also be neat if players had anything to do waiting the 6 minutes it takes to regain stamina

Like I hate it when games have a designated “watch YouTube and afk” period of time as a mechanical engagement

[strong solar]

crazy because the isle is the one game where its obvious they dont want people to afk

[thin mantle]

Mhm

[strong solar]

how many mechanics have come out to stop it? MANY

[thin mantle]

Diets, migrations, healing diets, etc

Doesn’t really matter if there’s such massive spans of time between doing anything

[strong solar]

I dont afk much in the game to begin with but sitting in a bush to recover gateway stamina got me walkin around my house

now im not sure what to do about the hunger drain since I get why its fast.. because of the diets

[thin mantle]

Like there’s certainly something to be said about valuing stam more

[strong solar]

if you have slower drain and you mess up your diet now you need to wait forever

[thin mantle]

There’s also something to be said about it making the neutral state of the game agonizingly unaventful

Yup

[strong solar]

fr

all you can do in this game is fight people and nest. And talk to those of your same species ig

[golden coral]

Well, the traveling part could be easily fixed at least, the combat, maybe less so. But being able to fight when out of stam is at least something.

[strong solar]

nesting has 0 benefits and takes too long (fast hunger drain says no) so nobody uses it

[thin mantle]

And honestly traveling is only so effective at making more efficient considering it’s just….a terrible idea to be anywhere but an active migration zone

[golden coral]

And gameplay loop in general is hopefully coming with perks, elders and all that

We're still lacking in that aspect

[thin mantle]

The gameplay loop still needs to be fun tho

[strong solar]

its kind of funny that a dinosaur roblox game has more things to do than the isle

[thin mantle]

Like it existing isn’t good enough it actually has to be fun

[golden coral]

Yeah, that's an issue too. I'm not the biggest fan of current migrations honestly

[thin mantle]

Same

[golden coral]

But then I want to be able to claim and live in a territory, so there is that

[strong solar]

territory would be nice

[golden coral]

Mostly cause I like some areas of the map better than others

[strong solar]

in a territory your hunger drain can be reduced and maybe get another buff for upkeeping it :)

[golden coral]

My stego does not fit in highlands... I am green/yellow, I fit much better in the swamp!

[thin mantle]

Like gateway feels REALLY small for me rn

Cuz I just, can’t go anywhere

[golden coral]

But it's more so that I enjoy some biomes more than others, so I wish you could remain there, at the cost of chasing out competition or so

[thin mantle]

Territory doesn’t really work with migrations tho

[golden coral]

Instead of having to leave and go on migrations every so often

It could, I think. Migrations could be "there is plentyful food here, no need to fight or worry", vs "There is only enough here for one medium sized herd, any other show up, they need to go, one way or another"

Competition do happen in migration zones after all

This would be more so that it should happen outside of them, and the current active zone/zones would be where you can find the larger numbers and make new friends and all that

[golden coral]

That's not the stamina change, that's the new nigth time!

[thin mantle]

I love the idea of the entire map being lives able

[thin mantle]

Oh believe me it’s both and it feels awful xD

[golden coral]

Stego NV is, well, it's lacking to say the least

[thin mantle]

Night time in general just feels like a failed integration

[golden coral]

I end up just finding a rock, shove my head into it, and hope for the best

[thin mantle]

I just log and wait for day, no need to sacrifice myself to night hunters that I can’t see

[strong solar]

A territory can be created or tied to nesting as an area you just claim and plan to stay in for a while. It wouldn't work for migrations because migrations dont work with anything atm... they aren't good as of now. Once food starts spawning around other areas of the map it could work

[thin mantle]

Oh then yeah I could see it working

[strong solar]

territory being tied to nesting would be the best route imo since nesting requires you to sit in one spot for a long period of time anyway. Plus it gives the parenting dinosaurs a buff for doing so

an incentive to nest

a break from constantly starving

[dawn falcon]

This would be an interesting mechanic

I’d argue food and water drain should BOTH be reduced for as long as you continue up keeping it

[strong solar]

yup

[thin mantle]

I don’t think I’d make the buffs any more impactful than that

Touching combat seems to always detonate the game

[dawn falcon]

I was gonna say

Nesting buffs for upkeeping territory

[strong solar]

and "upkeeping it" means keeping dangerous dinosaurs out of the zone. Or just visiting each part of the territory and scratching trees/scraping the ground so it can last longer (it can be divided into hexagons)

[strong solar]

combat buffs are a big no yeah

[dawn falcon]

A good territory providing the best benefits for your hatchlings

This is honestly a good way to make nesting a bit less barebones

[stark knoll]

@latent lotus Try wiping your config folder, unless you're referring to pinning

[latent lotus]

im not referring to the pinning, ill try doing that thank you

[latent lotus]

so do i delete the folder or whats inside of it?

[stark knoll]

Just delete the whole config folder, sorry for the late response!

[latent lotus]

thats alright

[remote crow]

@onyx trellis You put an X on my comment, argue with VALID reasons why you chose X, I'm convinced you didn't even enter the stress test to try it

@dusky surge same as Lasu, argue. because if the game in this state is good for you I cannot imagine what is your issue

[dusky surge]

what post is this

you havent posted anything in balance feedback in literally 13 days what are you talking about

wait is this the post in general feedback

why are you discussing it here then lol

you complained that you starved. In a survival game. I don't think much more needs to be said about how bizarre of a complaint that is

the only legitimate complaint you had was deino spawning away from water, which they've confirmed to have a fix planned

the new stam changes barely make the game "unplayable" if you can learn not to hold shift for every situation, and they've confirmed trot speeds will soon be buffed to account for the change

[keen plover]

🥰

[dusky surge]

friendly reminder that carno is still able to 3-tap cerato

[latent lotus]

@leaden shoal it literally jump as tall as a carno

[latent lotus]

what?

[mortal tundra]

@mint rain You mean Galli's kick? And also it's not a fighter, it's literally supposed to run.

[solar meteor]

Are ceratos so damn strong or am i just bad (was teno)?

4 kicks to the head and they're fine

[distant torrent]

cera is just overtuned compared to teno unfortunately

[solar meteor]

it is the latest released dino, so it makes sense that it's op

hopefully i can strike back when dibble comes out

[coarse blaze]

Does.. Does a baby deino outrun a baby cera? Onland?

I got chased down by a land deino and I'm genuiely unsure

[cosmic pelican]

Deino reaches its max speed at around 25% growth which is 25.5km/h, those guys are pretty chunky though

If you were juvi it would be massive compared to you

[coarse blaze]

I was freshspawn and it looked... Not quite fresh but not far off from it

I just couldn't believe it kept up with me on land enough to kill me via tail-bites

[cosmic pelican]

Juvi cera is abismally slow :/

Poor lil guy starts life at 21km/h

[coarse blaze]

Had to double check, I just didn't waddle fast enough then

[mint rain]

no raptor has a kick now

[mortal tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-dinosaur-deflate-gif-14211330

[mint rain]

not a very gooid move tho

[torn finch]

I genuinely think Troodon needs tweaking. I don't feel like you should have to scent to check the stage of the venom when it's hard enough to get there to begin with even with people. The coordination required, the stamina you use per pounce combined with sprint... it's just too costly. It'll work in great numbers but as it is in gateway alone. You're lucky if you kill something your size or smaller alone sometimes.

[thin mantle]

Thats like

The entire point of troodon'

If you're going for something bigger than yourself and you lack a horde you're handicapping

And that's fine

[warped wharf]

troodon, pachy and beipi are in pretty bad state right now, troodon being the biggest offender.

[torn finch]

Truedon

[torn finch]

I agree except on evrima I could take on a raptor my size or baby carno's and cera's. With gateway that is much more difficult to do

While I think troodon should benefit from a group. I don't feel like it should feel useless on its own.

[thin mantle]

It's a 60 kilo rat, I don't mind it being relatively unimpactful alone

It just lacks the ecosystem to feel effective by itself

[thin mantle]

everything surrounding it is massive

[stoic silo]

where on the map are you that place is amazing

[keen plover]

The Highlands Lake (-111,678.153, -10,620.017, 51,289.548)

[stoic silo]

thank you 👍

[forest barn]

genuine question, why tf are the ai birds stronger than pteranodons-

[torn finch]

Gateway fixed that, its new problem is that it can't keep up until it hits adult and even after it does it can't do or find much to kill on its own unless it's passive AI or already dead. Imo it needs the main mechanic to be more reliable somehow whetger it is net code or make that debuff activate faster after pouncing so troodon's aren't waiting 10 years for the call to know they went up a stage 3 times in a row

[thin mantle]

That's not an issue with it's balancing, that's an issue with solo troodon not being designed for the game as it is currently

If you buff solo play, you buff group play

Groups of troodons are already very strong

[torn finch]

They're really not, they kill each other more often than their prey does lol

They're strong when you have over 3 of them atm and I don't think balancing should be based on group if that's the argument. Every other creature does well in a group so that feels imvalid to claim they're strong in a group. If you can't find someone else in the map to play with you just die by default? That's not enjoyable.

[thin mantle]

They're not balanced around groups

actually troodon is disproportionately powerful in relation to it's size

A creature as small as troodon should absolutely have low relevancy alone in a roster like the one we have rn

That'll change when we have more smaller creatures

[torn finch]

Such as?

[cosmic pelican]

All of these guys (ignore rauisuchus, its no longer planned iirc)

Some other dinos, like velo and herrera should be on there too, but oh well

[olive zinc]

Size is irrelevant. If you disagree, go hug a nest of black widow spiders or go annoy a blue-ringed octopus.

What does matter is growth time, which is a mark in favor of the Troodon at half an hour or so. However, if you then take into account that the Troodon needs a reasonable pack to hunt, you have ~6 people who all spent half an hour to grow their Troodon versus one person who maybe spent three hours to grow their bigger dino. All things considered, even if you then ignore the fact that you have multiple people playing together versus one single person, the combined growth time alone means they should be on equal footing. That's ignoring that with every death, the Troodon pack loses a lot of damage. And that Troodon venom is disables until 65% growth, so growing one means you have to scavenge.

[golden coral]

Size does matter, especially since it's a game and thus have to be balanced for gameplay and that, otherwise venom would just kill in one bite if you want to do realism. But sure, it's not just size, more so power, growth, investment and so on. But no matter how you look at it, there should absolutely be limits to punching up, especially for playables that grow so very quickly and easily. And speaking of time, your example is not how you count time in gameplay/investment. As you said, any one troodon spent only half an hour, if even that. You can not add that up to match a three hour growth, because none of the troodons ever spent that much individually. Combined growth is not how you calculate that, it'd be extremely unbalanced if you did. So no, troodon, or any other playable, do not get to do that.

Troodon and cera both suffer from a lack of scaling on their abilities, which they should have, but that's a bit of a different issue. If they had, it'd be much more viable to make solo troodons or ceras somewhat more powerful, since the scaling would limit their ability to punch up instead.

[torn finch]

Are these going to be playable?....

[cosmic pelican]

Yep

[torn finch]

compy's too?

[cosmic pelican]

Except for compy and pterodactylus

[torn finch]

ah

So it seems like the issue is that a "done" Troodon takes less time to bake for its potential to only really shine in a group while something like a cera or carno, can carry on solo or in a group and do well either way. At the cost of taking longer to grow, so this makes me think the issue is in how smaller class dinos like pteranodon and troodon find their prey, being babies or "not grown yet" dinos

[cosmic pelican]

Troodons only issue right now is the roster, it will exponentially get much better as other small things get added

[olive zinc]

and who is going to play these small things?

[dusky surge]

whoever wants to

(like me)

[neon willow]

@polar vine it's pretty painfully slow, but stam does Regen when walking (z toggles between walking and trotting)

[polar vine]

O aight

[neon willow]

It was slow, but not terrible when I was playing pachy last night

Stam doesn't Regen while trotting though, which is an interesting idea but kind of frustrating due to map size and trot speeds

[slim dragon]

And me !

[stark knoll]

@vapid needle Try wiping your config folder, should fix the no-bucking issue

[rigid tulip]

Teno is possibly the single most competitively unviable character i have ever played in a videogame

[mortal tundra]

@charred idol Gateway stress test is in Evrima.
Evrima will have multiple different maps, the one you're one is called Isla Spiro.

[fallow blaze]

And me too

[distant torrent]

yep. it’s very sad

if dibble doesn’t get destroyed by carno and cera, I’m going to ditch teno for it since it doesn’t seem like teno has any love coming its way

[cosmic pelican]

The only buff teno got this update is reducing its kick to 2%stam cost lol

Better than nothing, but definetly not enough to make it viable :/

[rigid tulip]

True, dibble just seems like its going to be a teno that can do damage without having to use stam. Sad how far teno has fallen. Honestly one of the most unique and skillful playstyles ive seen in a game, used to be high risk high reward now its high risk low reward

[warm falcon]

@vocal matrix I have reason to believe that the diets are a little busted here.

For me, I've seen both dryo and beipi spontaneously gain more preferred foods, going from 2 of each nutrient to 4 or even 6-7 for beipi, in which case the foods spill over to the right. Along with gaining the preferred foods, they equally quickly disappear and blink back into existence on some kind of timer. I think the unreasonably fast changing of migration zones is tied into this somehow. No idea what's going on.

[vocal matrix]

It’s most likely a glitch but I was playing teno and I had it as a hatchling - sub when when I hit adult it went away making me think it was intentional but idk

[warm falcon]

it was blinking for me even after I hit adult, so it's definitely not intentional -- or if it is, it's borked otherwise

also the day before my diets completely disappeared on beipi 😂

[lilac leaf]

i was having that issue too, if i ran to the diets i arrived there with no stamina which meant i often died to carnivores, if i walked, the migration zone moved just as i got close lol they despawn too fast

[lilac leaf]

i can't post in there for another 5.5 hours ( why is the cooldown so long?? ) but might be a bug with water sniffing. i was following the scent of water for ages, then it randomly disappeared but i kept heading the same direction i had smelled it, but died of dehydration before i ever got to the water that may or may not exist. also, it was in the middle of a giant rainstorm so it feels a little strange to die of dehydration when i should be able to drink water off the floor anywhere lol

[sterile iris]

Happened to me too

[lone timber]

thats a hot take. i killed 6 ceras today with teno, the kick is devastating, tail slam has good range, and its stam pool is amazing. with the stam changes, it can run for a long time and use its superior trot to create even more distance. i mean realistically, if you see a carni and dont want to die to it, you can always trot much faster than it. it can jump on rocks, plays well with walls, swims fast, and doesnt leg break. easily the best herbi behind stego and a top 4 dino

[thin mantle]

Not at all a hot take

Teno performs poorly comparatively

[dusky surge]

the only thing wrong about that statement is pachy is worse

teno at least sports some level of viability over that literal trainwreck

i wouldn't put teno in a top 4 though

the top 4 in Gateway have to be carno, cera, deino and galli if anything

only reason omni isn't in that list is because it finally isn't the king of soloing literally everything because its stam doesn't permit that insane playstyle. Deino is still deino so its fine as ever, stam changes or not.

Teno and stego are the closest herbivores to being viable and good, but they still just are not that. Stego only gets away with it because an animal doesn't exist that would immediately expose how weak it actually is

[solar meteor]

teno is severely outperformed by all land carnivores, with the exception of troodon

you need to severely outplay the carni in order to win, but if both players are equally skilled the teno will almost always lose

it honestly just needs a stat tweak, because everything you mentioned gives them good advantages but their raw numbers keep them on the low end

[dusky surge]

even troodon arguably is stronger than teno

[lone timber]

teno can bring a full hp carno to around half bleed off of landing just one kick to the body because you get a guaranteed head kick after. meanwhile teno can tank 6 head bites before it dies to a carno, i do agree that carno has the edge over teno in a sandbox fight but it’s not that cut and dry.

[stark knoll]

One kick cannot bring a carno to half hp, even if it's a head shot

It'd have to do more damage than a deino bite

[lone timber]

with the guaranteed head kick after it could

[dusky surge]

not even, no

it wouldn't even do half

[stark knoll]

It'd take, what, at least 4 kicks just about?

To reach half hp, not kill

To the head, that is

[dusky surge]

kick does, what, 200-something?

[lone timber]

the hp values are an estimate but a body kick and head kick will 100% bring a carno to 58 bleed and i laid down

[solar meteor]

if you're a 50% grown carno, maybe your numbers are true

[dusky surge]

no it wont

bleed is dependent on how much you move

[lone timber]

nah i was full, i tested with a full adult teno and ate one body kick and one head kick then laid down right after. still bled to 58% bleed but you’re free to test yourself

[dusky surge]

no but it won't always be 58%

[lone timber]

it could be even lower given that i laid down right after, if i trotted and ran around it definitely would’ve gone lower. regardless we can both acknowledge that teno gets a guaranteed kick off of landing an initial kick which is huge damage potential. cera and carnos can really only make that mistake 2 or 3 times

[dusky surge]

Okay but a charge plus bite still has a far greater damage potential

[lone timber]

yeah i can agree with that. again im not denying the matchup is hard for teno but it’s not like carno has zero risk and can play sloppy

[dusky surge]

well, yea

but carno can def play sloppier than teno

[lone timber]

in a deathmatch sure, but teno has much more going for it in terms of survivability than just its ability to go toe to toe with carno like its superior trot, jump ability which can make whatever skill level of the carno obsolete when it gets on a rock, bigger stam pool, swim speed etc etc

[solar meteor]

i just hope the dibble is overtuned, herbis need some love

I doub it tho, the devs are known to dislike having herbis be playable

[keen plover]

Kick deals 275n of damage. So it would take 5 headshots to drop a Carno

[lone timber]

thx, i edited it to say around half bleed bc that’s what i tested. with no hp bar i can only guess now 😪

[dusky surge]

i'd rather the whole herbi roster see love, than just one of its newcomers

[solar meteor]

Agreed, but like i said the devs dislike herbis so i don't see that ever happening

i fully expect the Trike to be bodied by the rex when they come out

[latent bay]

If my boy Triceratops is fodder that would be so bad

I cant say much past that without going on a tirade on how Triceratops should be the strongest non-sauropod thing in the game

[solar meteor]

you don't need to convince me, i agree with you

trike should be op, solely on the fact that it'll always be outnumbered by rexes

[dusky surge]

i want an ambush to be the only way for a rex to consistently beat a trike

if it doesn't ambush, it's at a significant disadvantge. If it does, it still needs to be careful, because the trike can pull it back

@mossy jasper they've confirmed they're increasing trot speeds

[mossy jasper]

Finally

[halcyon elk]

Rexes main prey items bar para give it the worst trouble.

[hasty coyote]

Pachy walk speed

[halcyon elk]

Para do likely got the speed advantage tho. Trike is just as good in a face to face fight as rex is. Anky is a walking nope. And shant...is shant.

[fresh laurel]

Still mad disliking new stam system tbh

[halcyon elk]

I honestly don't mind it. When they increase trot speed that should help a ton.

[fresh laurel]

Doubt
System just isnt for me

[halcyon elk]

Why is that? Sprinting around the island is very stupid imo.

[fresh laurel]

Sacreficed too much for realism vs fun

[halcyon elk]

Can I explain something? This game isn't supposed to be a fighting fest. Fighting is a main thing. But fighting is DANGEROUS and you gotta think beforehand. Ya feel me?

[fresh laurel]

Never said it was
Just dont like the system, lol?

Cant just convince someone to like something just like that

[halcyon elk]

Fair. You're right.

[dense wedge]

Walking around the map is also extremely time consuming. Colour me surprised, we don't have unlimited time to play.

[fresh laurel]

Could be also cus im playing smth that should be fast paced
(Omni)
Just doesnt feel right tbh
Wonder how gallis are adapting

[halcyon elk]

Essentially they use the 3 dots diet. Also gallimimus trot is gonna get buffed too.

[halcyon elk]

You are correct we don't, which is why trot speed being increased does help, that and also not draining all of your stamina running.

[solar meteor]

current 3 dots doesn't do anything

[cosmic pelican]

Carbs dont give any buffs besides growth in the st

[solar meteor]

they'll probably be removing stamina buffs from diets

[halcyon elk]

Fr?

[cosmic pelican]

Yep

[halcyon elk]

Is there any stamina buffs?

[solar meteor]

No

[dense wedge]

I doubt they will do anything. Again, trotting will always be slower than running. I don't want to spent 30 mins to find anything worthwhile.

[cosmic pelican]

It was probably removed so ppl dont cheese the system they are trying to test

[halcyon elk]

In that case another good idea is to sprint not until fully draining your stamina.

[halcyon elk]

I hope it changes back when it releases.

[fresh laurel]

Juvie gameplay with stam system is, smth i must say

Got tons of stam so yay, but if you dont have to sit, very vulnerable
Sorta fair i suppose?

[dense wedge]

Cool idea. However then I'm stuck playing rest simulator.

I really don't understand you lot. Why do you advocate for a change that slows the game down by lot. Said game also is barebones and doesn't have "late game". Why slow down even more such a game?

[fresh laurel]

Trotting doesnt regen stam too iirc right

Makes it much worse than it has to be imo

[halcyon elk]

Ngl higher stamina pool would make the new system work tbh

[fresh laurel]

Issue is, many abilities are heavily buffed

[stark knoll]

A higher sprint time and improved trots+walks would be my preferred improvements

[fresh laurel]

Higher sprint time works

[stark knoll]

Combat stamina is a whole separate beast

[halcyon elk]

True, sprint drain being reduced works a lot better imo.

[stark knoll]

I've also heard a suggestion to make the fastest regen rate (aka the one you reach after sitting for a while) faster

That way you still have to spend time resting to recuperate, but it's not quite so long once you reach that max speed

[fallow blaze]

I read some balance-feedbacks.
the new stamina system is a challenge. I understand that.
I have now also played 4 different dinosaurs on gateway.
but why everyone starves because of stamina or never reaches the migration zone is a mystery to me.

The easiest way to get to your destination is by road. Even across the country, I reach the migration zones.
You just have to get used to it.
it is not that hard.
later with the map it will be even easier.

Managing endurance isn't that hard after all...
I also have to sit down twice
and get along wonderfully.

[fresh laurel]

That would be better

Rn the stam system needs quite the changes for me to find some sorta "enjoyment" from it

[stark knoll]

Yea the roads are nice, a bit windy in spots but they spread all over the map

[fresh laurel]

Doesnt help how it happened when we got a giant map

[stark knoll]

You're basically guaranteed to get to your destination using them

[solar meteor]

I haven't struggled with starvation at all but the stamina management is indeed a chore and slows down the game too much. Maybe with trot speed improvements my opinion will change but RN the "late game" is even more dull than before

[fresh laurel]

Im still curious
New stam system screws galli whole group running gimmick right?

[solar meteor]

Can't even nest due to the massive time sink it is

[fresh laurel]

And must admit, kinda weird to see something like omni raptors not running and instead walking most places

Also whats with omni kick ability
Whats its purpose?
More dmg? Bleed?
Or just visual

[fallow blaze]

there are a few too many streets
But i get used to it.
They destroy a bit the atmosphere for me haha

[solar meteor]

the atmosphere is improved by the human installations, for me

a reminder that we're still on modern days

[stark knoll]

Testbed and initial implementation of jumping/downward attacks from what I can tell

It's not like, an objectively good move or dps improvement

But if you jump or fall onto something and decide you don't want to commit to pounce you can still reach down

[fallow blaze]

You mean as adult its getting faster?

[solar meteor]

He means stamina regeneration

[stark knoll]

iirc there were also upwards attacks shown off on Don's streams, not sure if omni's was added yet

[stark knoll]

I meant once you get to the maximum regeneration speed

[fresh laurel]

Interesting
I hope its expanded on however since it is omni using its sickle claw over a bite to be a nice bleed chip ability
Something to also be used for less stamina commitment

Curious to see if other dinos will get it

I mean ones with decent jumps

[fallow blaze]

I know that
the isle has always been in that time.
I hear my friends grumbling about:
If I run through nature I die (fall down) if I run on the streets I survive= that's annoying.

They simply wish that they could reach their destination across country without a road.
They find it too difficult.
But today I saw that it works. Of course, I also had 2 bone breaks. But it works.

[fallow blaze]

I played the galli until I think it grew 90%🤔 until i get killed.
I didn't notice anything on that.
Maybe there is a secret 😄

[stark knoll]

The longer you rest, the faster your stamina regenerates

Nothing to do with movement or sprint speed

[knotty venture]

Alr bites use Stam. Normal bites don't. No one alt bite spams xD

[hasty coyote]

Alt bites don’t use stam anymore

Only deino still uses stam

[fallow blaze]

I really don't want to be annoying. I'm sorry.
I can confirm this with pachy. It goes faster over time. even without a diet stamina buff.

but I couldn't notice any faster regeneration with the galli...
maybe someone from the devs can check this?

[stark knoll]

Hmmm, I'll have to check it out

[fallow blaze]

thanks for understanding
Oh well i hope I wasn't wrong. now that you take the time...

[cosmic pelican]

Alt bites use 2% stamina per attack. If youre reffering to the ST that is.

[wintry halo]

if you manage your stamina dont pay too much attention too it unless you used a great amount in a short span, you be fine. we all in the same boat when it comes too this stamina change it slows the pace down and makes people think twice, especially noticed different species dont help eachother as often anymore

exactly because they dont waste precious stamina

[hasty coyote]

Oh they changed it again? I didn’t realize, my b

So guess these stam changes hurt herbies even more… great

[fallow blaze]

Totaly agree

[golden coral]

@lunar yacht It seems to me you're just making carno even better in groups while making it worse solo, that makes little to no sense. On top of that, cera is overtuned and needs nerfs of its own, not buffs. The only thing that makes some sense is cera having better NV than carno, but at the same time, no playable should have that bad of NV that cera and stego do in the first place. It'd by far be better if you turned down the knockdown threshold and damage for ram, and upped carno bite damage instead, so you knockdown and then stop to finish off the target. This would actually make carno less oppressive overall.

[thin mantle]

Yes^

[thin mantle]

@dense otter The fact that Carno charges at all is proof they aren’t going for realism

[golden coral]

What does the diet have to do with the charge?

[dense otter]

I'm not talking about Carno being able to charge. There's no way an animal like that is able to zoom off like the flash in .2 seconds

[thin mantle]

There's also no way an animal like carno would be able to use charge at all as an ability without killing itself

So the game is more consistently defiant of physics when it comes to carno than it is adherent to them

[dense otter]

So you just disliked my feedback to tell me what you want to say lol. It's unnatural for anything to move like that. He was trotting and literally barely even 2 steps he rammed me down as I was right in front of his face, canceling my charged bite. Moving on

[golden coral]

Sounds like you were either not grown or already badly wounded if you took that much damage, even a headshot shouldn't hurt that bad. Not sure what the diet has to do with it. And sure, instant charge carno is not ideal, but both carno and cera has problems that needs to be resolved that aren't related to the insta charge. Such as the damage/knockdown on charge, or cera vomit lock/attack canceling and lack of bile scaling.

[thin mantle]

Right and what I'm saying is that it being unnatural is irrelevant

Animals in the isle perform impossible feats regularly this is nothing new

[dense otter]

It didn't have this charge before, its distance to charge is too soon, now. Before you actually needed momentum to charge, and it felt more natural. Go on though.

[dense otter]

I was either 95% or 100%. Diet can help regen rate, and amount that it's locked to, and you're right they do both have problems. Gateway is nice in theory but alot of the changes for it are definitely still in development, as they've said. I was stating my piece on the charge, nothing else.

[golden coral]

Hm, alright. Yeah, diet can help with recovery, just you kind of made it sound like the diet should have helped otherwise somehow. But maybe I misunderstood there. Still, a cera at 95% growth, should not get that badly wounded from a charge, even head on, from what I know. So it sounds a little off. But maybe the heart rate monitor is off (the blood screens are quite hard to read, or so I've heard).

[dense otter]

I could've done a better job at that, so my bad. Those heart monitors are terrible, and don't even show the right rate until you sit on the screen for a couple seconds, they've got some trimming around the hedges to do, but they're getting there at least

[shadow vortex]

Carno does about 550 dmg to head I believe, because 3 charges to head mean death to cera

[lunar yacht]

• everything is better in groups
• didn't say that cerato didnt need nerfs
• thank you for agreeing about cera nv
• carno ram has already been nerfed via turn and cooldown
• bite is more reliable damage than the ram, so transferring power to its bite from its ram can't be considered less oppressive. at that point, carnos will opt to not ram at all if they can instead just bite and not lose any extra stamina that they would ramming. its better to have them relying on a skill shot that comes with risk (increased momentum, see the post) if they miss.
• while we're at it, reduce group size to 2 instead of 3 for carno

[golden coral]

True, but the reason carno is so oppressive is because of how well charge scales in group. Thus, limiting the power and ability of charge, at the cost of making bite better will be less oppressive. Why? Because no knockdown or other CC, meaning that you can trade hits, reliably run away without worrying about being knocked down, and so on. It gives the target far better ability to counter, same with how you can fight back vs an omni using bites only, but better because carno is less agile. Biting is more risky due to not stopping the cera, teno, or so from retaliating, which knockdown does (and the massive damage on charge only makes it even better there). The knockdown plus power, combined with the numbers making it almost impossible to dodge is the reason carnos are oppressive. A "brawler" carno that lacks the same knockdown nuke power, is not going to be as bad. The nerfs on turn/cooldown are not relevant, because they don't target the real issue. Cooldown does not matter for groups, nor does turn radius (also turn should be good on charge, let carno pursue properly, please and thank you).

Fair, on the other points. I think all NV should be at least playable at all times (aside from maybe stormy nights, but then those need to be rare, not like current where it seems to rain more often than not), no matter the critter. And it makes sense that cera can see a bit better than the diurnal open plains hunter that carno is. And sure, carno can come in pairs only, though I think trios are fine, the issue is entirely on charge, and I do not understand this focus on changing everything but knockdown and damage. Even if carno can only knockdown to 1K weight, it can hunt smalls just fine. Same with damage, you can have 150 damage on the charge, 200 on the bite, you knockdown but now you need to stop and finish the target off. And it makes spamming charge vs bigger things much less powerful, which means you might want a pair vs something like a cera or teno to bait and bite.

Making carno rely on more than just either charge, or bite, would be preferable. Same with omni and pounce. Having carno use charge to catch small and agile critters for a kill confirm makes sense and prevents the charge from being such a powerful tool in groups and vs "same lane" critters. And sure, a carno might not charge vs a teno or cera, that only helps them. Cera can now reliably stand on a corpse and not worry about being knocked down or severly damaged without being able to retaliate. Same goes for a teno, that can now focus on slamming or kicking the carno if it goes for a bite, or run away more efficiently since the carnos can't charge to knock it down as it is escaping.

[lunar yacht]

i'll read thru that, i might be delayed to respond. i appreciate you putting so much into it

[golden coral]

We could test out my "theory" you know, grow a carno and cera/teno. Fight me without using charge at all, vs fighting me with it. See which matchup seems to be the best for the cera/teno, both v 1 carno and maybe 2, to see how escape works as well.

[fresh laurel]

Omni was taking stam

So...

[hasty coyote]

yeah I was told that was changed in the st. I doubted they would change it so fast but I guess they did

[fresh laurel]

Anyways
Stam needs quick fine tuning before launch, cus oh man...

[hasty coyote]

100% Especially since alt bites were changes, this is a straight up buff to carnivores that don't rely on high stam abilities cough cough CERA cough cough

[fresh laurel]

I only played omni thus far and only fought tenos and carnos
Cant speak for others yet

I can see how shafted teno could be tbh

[hasty coyote]

I only had time to play beipi, and even then I had some difficulties with stam, so I can tell other things are struggling.

[fresh laurel]

I just didnt like omni with this 😭😭😭
So used to yknow... being able to pounce and then trot at a good pace for stamina as i keep smth bleeding

You def need a pack to REALLY back you up now

[latent lotus]

@dense otter first things first we should not take realism into account on a balance discussion. and carno is an ambush predator and a runner dino so yeah it should accel and charge a ram quickly

[dense otter]

Yeah if I'm literally right in front of it, while its walking,it should totally be able to charge and slam me to the ground, totally 🙄

[dusky surge]

carno shouldn't be an ambush dino but that's besides the point

[distant torrent]

@supple karma honestly?

very based. I fully support that suggestion

[supple karma]

I feel like they're just like carnos used to be before they nerfed them to hell

If not worse

[dusky surge]

what the actual hell

this is like a troll post or something, this cannot be real

from a realism, gameplay, balance, general enjoyability, logic, any stance, this is just

what

[gleaming steeple]

fr man

[dusky surge]

a 1.8 ton, 55.5km/hr small game hunter knocking over a 6 ton herbivore with its NECK

like i cannot even fathom how someone comes to this conclusion

beyond literally wanting all herbivores to be food

[dawn falcon]

Sounds like small game to me

[gleaming steeple]

now stego is balanced and if someone can’t kill her as juv troodon then that doesn’t mean she’s op

lol

[golden coral]

@cosmic lily You... seriously think a carno should knock over a fully grown stego? Not only should carno not take on stegos what so ever (aside from small ones), but carno should probably not even knock over teno and cera, being that those are not that far off carnos own size.

[cosmic lily]

Stego is on a carnos diet. What a joke...also a large animal hitting a stego from the side would knock it over imo

3 adult carnos should be a bigger problem to a single stego than they currently are. It pretty pathetic currently.

[dusky surge]

no it isnt?

[cosmic lily]

Its not even interesting for stegos they just waddle around hoping a deino will fight them and then end up falling themselves off a cliff

[dusky surge]

stego literally is not on carno's diet

[cosmic lily]

well regardless an adult carnos size dino running into the side of a stego would knock it over imo

[dusky surge]

You're suggesting an animal knock over something quite literally over three times its own size. Like a water buffalo knocking over an elephant

except actually the water buffalo would have a better chance

[cosmic lily]

your comparison doesnt make sense, you must be a stego main lol

[dusky surge]

i literally cannot stand playing stego

but i do love it when people say that lol

[cosmic lily]

same and for the reason i mentioned

[dusky surge]

i personally just don't want stego turned into easy fodder food for a creature not even a third of its size

[cosmic lily]

a third its size? you're clueless

[dusky surge]

less

[dusky surge]

carno is 1.8 tons. Stego is 6 tons.

6 divided by 3 = 2
1.8 < 2

[golden coral]

Diet does not mean "kill all sizes" for that matter. Deino can eat stego, but does not generally hunt those above 4T. And sure, large animal, rex will probably knock stego over (which will be a problem for stego). But carno is quite small compared to stego, and not really well designed to hunt larger things even. So yeah, no, let's not make carno even more oppressive in groups than it already is.

[dusky surge]

its literally maths

[dusky surge]

but the point still is stego ISN'T on carno's diet, that's just not a thing

like, it's legitimately not on there

[golden coral]

I know, hence why I used deino as an example.

[golden coral]

What... how powerful do you think carno is, or how weak do you think stego is?

[cosmic lily]

1 stego can easily handle 3 average carnos

[dusky surge]

yea

[golden coral]

Three carnos might take an allo on, or something like that size range such as a maia, but that'd be about it.

[dusky surge]

i dont see why that's wrong? carno is a punch-down speedster creature, not a pack hunting large-game hunter

[cosmic lily]

1 good cera can easily kill 1 average stego 1v1

[gleaming steeple]

if you found a stego in diet then go look for small stegos on the map and don’t try to kill the balance

[golden coral]

Oh yeah, that's.... because of funny cera vomit being what it is, as well as lacking scaling.

[dusky surge]

that's more of a problem with cera (and how bad stego actually is as an animal when taken out of a vacuum of nothing but small animals and small-game hunters)

it's why stego is getting a kit rework to have more attacks and so on, to be prepared for animals that don't fit its comfort zone of literally tiny

so technically, stego will soon be even more capable of killing carnos than it is now lol

the carnos, fortuantly, have a secret ability, that means stego can never kill them

they're fast and can leave

[golden coral]

Remains to be seen what will actually be done with stego and how well that works out. But yeah, cera taking on stego, or troodon taking on stego, is mostly due to stego being quite badly designed, as well as neither bile nor venom scaling with size/weight at all. As well as vomit being somewhat of a "lockdown" ability still, at least for things slower than cera.

[keen plover]

3 carnos will be able to drop an average stego with the new changes

[dusky surge]

goddamn i genuinely feel bad for stego lol

[tired charm]

Did deino get weaker on gateway? Feels like it took way more bites to kill a teno

[coarse pollen]

How?

[lone timber]

i love where carno is at right now i think it’s beautiful 🥹

[rigid tulip]

I think its better than it was but its still flawed in concept. Any charge against any dino near its size = that dino just dies. Its boring, especially when charge is so easy to land. Similar tier competitors like teno have a ridiculously inferior ability despite the ability taking ridiculously more skill and calculation.

I like carno not feeling like its some kind of neutered, restricted predator, but its still boring and unhealthy for the game rn

I think its matchup against the smallest and largest dinos is fine, but its fundamentally flawed against dinos of a similar tier like pachy, teno, cera. Those fights are very one dimensional. My only problem with for example troodon vs carno is the new stamina system limiting the troodon’s damage to an absolute maximum that cant really be passed. Which is just lame. A similar issue is in teno, where it’s physically incapable of fighting without stamina, thus having an absolute maximum capability in a fight that once expended, leaves you powerless.

[halcyon elk]

Tbh teno is the maximum a horde can likely reliably hunt with the animal be at adulthood. Iirc pachy got its stun fracture back on the first fracture. Idk that for complete so there's that. And cera is an absolute beast on a body, which is kinda what cera is supposed to be. Also there's the upcoming dinosaurs. Which is a completely different story with diablo and dilo.

[shadow vortex]

@gray summit nerfing charge turn rate unlikely will work because it's still a one-tap ability which means that it is being activated only 1 centimeter away from the prey most of the time

[lone timber]

i did not know pachy got the stun back that’s yummmy

[halcyon elk]

I hope it does.

[lone timber]

troodon fr though is best at menacing and killing juvies or small subs with small numbers. maybe a carno with 6+ , because tbf it grows so fast even without a perfect diet

i haven’t played troodon on gateway but i already feel for them because i do see that the terrain is much more hillier and their camera is really low

[gray summit]

that could be fixed if you make turns slightly lower your speed, making you unable to charge even if you try to adjust before charging

but i dont know, i dont seem to have popular opinions

[shadow vortex]

Turns already lower carno's speed x) At least it was like that in 6.5, but I believe that wasn't changed. Prob will grow another carno on ST and then return to this message if that's different now

[cobalt dagger]

I am sorry this is the wrong secotion but people here tend to know a lot about the game- My buddy's 50% deino is stuck in a little hole in gateway and dying of thirst fast. Is there any wayto unstuck him or he's just doomed?

In the 'isle discussion' they simply told me it's not possible but I guess I wanted to ask more people to be sure

[rigid tulip]

Idk to be honest with you man, unlikely, if ur bigger than him try grabbing him with ur right click maybe

[cobalt dagger]

Thanks

[stark knoll]

Check the pinned messages in the server channels down below to see how to request assistance

[cobalt dagger]

The channels down below?

[stark knoll]

Yea, the ones under the Official Servers category in this discord

[marble vector]

#balance-feedback message It seems that FG deinos have terrible visability in large bodies of water. I assume this is to protect from spawn killing and allowing a safe space for juvies.

[shadow vortex]

But devs definitely said that they wanted to make life more difficult for deinos, especially by popularizing cannibalism

[marble vector]

Yes, and gateway is a step in that direction

[marble vector]

In its current form, gateway feels like it encourages cannibalism at a size level, IE small deino to small deino, FG to FG, etc.

[dawn falcon]

💪

[distant torrent]

I hope this doesn’t mean omnis can still spam pounce and not suffer much from it

[hasty coyote]

Dude everything has bad vision in water. I can barely see 5 meters ahead as beipi, but I use nv and can see pretty much everything.

If you ask me this does not seem intentional (this is day btw)

[shadow vortex]

This one reminded me of a filter all photos from 2012-2014 had...

[marble vector]

Juvi deinos can see farther in large water bodies, deino night vision is nothing like that.

[slim dragon]

<@&933486433342222376> I guess that's against the rules

Also wrong channel

[wintry halo]

because people didnt like the last carno in update 6.5 it was too hard apparently while it actually was still very strong if you knew its strong points and weakpoints.

[slim dragon]

@tropic horizon That's already the case

[tropic horizon]

Im aware that it has one but it’s reduction doesn’t seem to be all that impactful from what I’ve experienced

[slim dragon]

Every dino but pachy and stego has a 1.5x damage multiplier on its head
Stego has a 2x multiplier and pachy has 0.75x

So the reduction is already higher in comparison to what you've suggested

[tropic horizon]

Was unaware of that, but im glad that they accounted for headshots with pachy.

[halcyon elk]

@leaden shoal I don't know if it's confirmed but I think Omni and troodon will keep their spiro Stam rates.

[keen plover]

They better not

Well troodon I couldn’t care less. But hell no to Omni

[dusky surge]

omni never loses

[keen plover]

Like troodon having good regenerative stats is fine. Since you can generally one shot the thing anyways. I think the stam changes are very harsh on them

[tropic horizon]

The end is near

[halcyon elk]

I hope not with Omni. Hope to God with smaller ones like troodon

[fresh laurel]

Theres u4 pounce...

[wintry halo]

its fine unless you like your 2 pounces back too back 1 pounce melts any creature off so much bleed thats not called deino or cerato

[rigid tulip]

Honestly dont think it should. One mistake is death. The only reason it feels oppressive rn is cause stego is so predictable and bleed is op. Imagine it vs large game that actually has a moveset (its intended targets)

[rigid tulip]

Imo omni is good because of the balancing of the other dinos, not omni. Teno is helpless, so is stego, pachy bleeds out in the time span of a youtube ad, carno bleeds hard as well, the only land dino that actually has a good matchup is cera

I think as we move along we will see more dinos like cera that have the flexibility yet power to shake off omnis

[dusky surge]

i meant it as a joke on how omni never recieves any significant nerfs that make it actually unviable

[rigid tulip]

Definitely true

I mean at the same time same with carno and deino

[dusky surge]

nah carno def has

[thin mantle]

Honestly they haven’t been that bad at least on troo.
Like if anything it seems like a buff

The regen just takes a really long time

Which for an animal as small as troo I think is a bit unnecessary

[stark knoll]

@plucky moon Both of those are bugs and should be reported in #🐞-evrima-bug-reports-🐞

[plucky moon]

ill do so I just got to restart game cause I raged and alt f4ed

[plucky moon]

and need a pic

[stark knoll]

Pics aren't required if you can't get one!

[plucky moon]

i can so they fix it quicker

[stark knoll]

We'd rather have a report with no evidence than no report at all

[plucky moon]

ill try

if i dont get pic ill just send it

[stark knoll]

Thanks!

[plucky moon]

2nd in queue rn

[plucky moon]

np I also wanna enjoy playing and not frustrate cause i cant get diets

Lunary you know how I can fix that my custom settings get resetet everytime I restart the game?

[plucky moon]

how can I upload my pic ?

[stark knoll]

You can post it here, the right click and select Copy Link

[plucky moon]

i sniffed 20 secs and got 4 pics for every direction

[stark knoll]

I've heard of other people with that issue, I'm not sure. It might be worth doing a hard wipe of your config

[plucky moon]

i already did that

to fix my bucking I cant buck

[stark knoll]

Oh, that means you're inside the migration zone

So it'll appear in all directions when it's large like that

[plucky moon]

ye

and I sniffed more than 20 secs

and didnt get anything

[stark knoll]

Hmmm, definitely weird

[plucky moon]

ye

I also filled out the formular

[lone timber]

but if you’re near water or anything that can collide, omni can’t touch you. there’s a list of counters to omni pounce: any collision (trees, walls, literally anything)
any steep cliff or surface
playing next to water
omni cant pounce upwards since it’ll automatically miss the pounce for a free hit so you could protect your right flank and leave the left to a decline
omni should have the matchup advantage if you find yourself solo on an empty plain vs a pack of them

[thin mantle]

It already does

The list of weaknesses pounce has is necessary to compensate for its power and how well it scales in groups as well as how effective it is against creatures way bigger than itself

And honestly it’s too strong as it stands, and especially when paired with its pinning capability it’ll be getting soon

[distant torrent]

I personally see pinning as nothing more than a huge unnecessary buff to omni and middle finger to every other playable and their ability to defend themselves

[neon willow]

I hope that they buff herbivores some to compensate... Apparently Omni won't be the only carnivore with pinning - Rex and allo too

[remote crow]

@fierce abyss A big issue this game has is how the dev team seems to keep FORCING players to play a certain way in an open world game. I've heard, "we dont want players running around constatly so we'll nerf stam". "We dont want players to constantly be in this area so we will FORCE them to migrate". We dont like this and this and this so we will FORCE our players to play how WE want them to instead of giving them freedoms to play the game as they like.
Players should be given opportunities to WANT to do certain things without punishment otherwise being their deciding factor.
Stam nerfs are crazy. Players are already complaining that they can't hunt anything because not only is the stam pool much lower+regns slower but it also costs stam to attack. This will make a lot of gameplay impossible and less compelling. You need to be able to account for the fact that players shouldn't be doomed to die because they made a mistake while fighting with stam. There should be some leeway to allow players to not be masters at this game to have fun and not run out of stam. Please increase the stam pool for all dinosaurs.
The migration system is also getting ridicoulous. It's yet again FORCING players into specific small areas of the map and yet again just being entirely possessive of how the players should play the game instead of encouraging player's to explore the map, settle into areas they like best, or have at least a little choice in how they want to play.
Everything is just being railroaded and it's like we're being TOLD how to play the game instead of deciding for ourselves.
I am sensing a need to control players from the dev team at this point. Like a possessive person angry at the fact that players find new ways to enjoy the game and must be punished.

I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE DISLIKE THIS COMMENT. You deserve to play in this mess... you deserve to run around the map costantly looking for food or sitting in a damn bush to recover stamina. You deserve all of this..

[distant torrent]

with the current history of updates? probably not happening

[fierce abyss]

Sounds like you completely misunderstood my comment by ok

idc if people dislike my comment either, there's a lot of hype for Gateway so people overlook the very big issues that are going to happen when it's released to the public. I think when that hype is over the issues are gonna come back around

[neon willow]

All games do this. Some games the devs just don't specifically say what they're doing to shape player behavior. By this logic, the devs are forcing you to eat certain foods, or you get debuff for poor diet!

Besides, migration encourages larger movement around the map. Before almost everyone stayed at center or northwest. Sure, migration could be modified to make it better, but as it stands herbivores get a far more interesting, non repetitive experience. I kind of expect migration routes will be modified in the future as more playable are added and spread out over more of the map

[fierce abyss]

The devs are focusing on the wrong things. Players stay in NW or Center because that's where most of the players are, its where they gravitate to since there is nothing more interesting added to the game other than combat and pvp. The devs need to stop focusing on forcing other players into locations instead of realising the bigger issue at hand. Name one major aspect to the game other than pvp? The real focus should be on player vs enviornment and reworks to nesting instead of railroading the playerbase. Migration can be a good system if it's not a forceful one where players get -10 health, -10 stam, -10 nightvision (Which are huge debuffs btw) and have literally 0 food elsewhere on the map. Using migration as a way to ENCOURAGE players shouldn't be about big consequences and starvation but an opportunity to get buffs, though not completely nessessary. How will players explore the map or even settle down to nest when instead they constantly have to chase after food?

Also, not speaking for gateway but for spiro but the water drain is very very quick too. You can't go away from nearby water sources because you dehydrate way too quickly

[neon willow]

I don't disagree, but I think there's a few things they could do to improve migration significantly. For 1-- 3 diets should give all around the best buffs, and 3 of the same diet should be the weakest effect. No species benefits from eating the same food with no variety irl, and it's also easy to get 3 of the same diet. Then make one diet widespread across the map. But have the other 2 rotate around the map with seasons, encouraging herbivores to migrate for the best buffs but not punishing them for choosing to be sendentary necessarily. Then have migrations travel a larger chunk of the map, and stay in areas longer-- meaning an herbivore by following the migration route will have the opportunity to nest or explore the whole map with patience, but they can also go off and do their own thing if they want, sacrificing the best buffs though

The problem with migration right now is that it changes too quickly, that there is no food outside of migrations, and that it doesn't cycle through enough of the map

[fierce abyss]

Yes I agree with you too. Maybe instead of only 1 nutrient wide spread there should be potential to find a second nutrient in much more rare cases. Like a 5-10% chance of a nutrient spawning in some areas. But even having a combo of two of the same nutrient gives decent buffs so

[solar meteor]

Isle devs buffing herbivores? yeah, it ain't happening

best hope you have is that they are released overtuned, that's the only time you'll get to enjoy a strong herbi

[vague steeple]

I think not having Stego swing it’s tail while latched at least recognizes that it shouldn’t be skewering these small dinos with its tail without skewering itself. It’s not like it’s brushing them off, it’s hammering them like Thor, without consequence to self.

[forest flower]

Preach my guy.
What the devs want shouldn't outweigh what the community wants, because there's no game without a community. I for one am not touching Gateway until/if they fix stamina. It's not enjoyable. Spiro game play is a whole lot more fun and engaging right now, and that's coming from someone who doesn't even go picking fights. I explore, go sit in secluded areas to chat with my pack, go hunt when I get hungry and find the least-deino-overrun spot to drink from when I get thirsty. I survive. It's a survival game.

But tell we how you're supposed to travel between your desired locations effectively and safely when your stamina drains in the blink of an eye and takes until you're going grey to regenerate? In a map as large as Gateway, with migrations especially, you use a lot of stamina getting from place to place to even find food, not including actually hunting it. It doesn't make any sense why players are getting punished for partaking in a newly implemented system. In other words, blowing their stam chasing migration zones and continuing to starve to death while it regens enough to make a successful and not reckless hunt. I assure you once the shiny newness of Gateway wears off, a lot of people, like myself, will revert to Spiro.

[dusky surge]

here's the thing with that statement, and i find this statement everywhere.

"What the community wants outweighs what the devs want"

It's funny, because no, it doesn't. As a developer, a great deal of what you have to do is avoid falling to peer pressure. People want you to do this and that, and sometimes, those things heavily undermine your creative vision or ideas. What draws people in is what unique things a game has to offer, however, ideas that are radical or deviate from a preconceived norm are perceived as uncomfortable, and thus people want it changed. What happens, ironically, when you listen mostly to your community, is that you lose the creative spark that draws people in.

People want changes that fit within their comfort zone, they don't want things that push the envelope and create new experiences that act to draw in players who are seeking for something unique. The community's feedback is important, yes, but it takes no priority over the devs own vision.

I've had my own experiences working on a dev team that stifled creativity and such in fear of upsetting members of the community. Bold new ideas were shut down, because it would disrupt the comfortable norm of what they've had, and now that game which I used to love so much I volunteered my time, talent and energy on it, is something I rarely ever play. The game because stale, neutered and lost the spark that originally drew me to it.

The stamina change is controversial, but it's firstly experimental, and secondly not universally hated. I enjoy it, a lot, it's completely changed how I engage with the game and made me feel more immersed than ever, and I literally can never go back to Spiro. Abandoning new ideas due to immediate backlash, even before getting the chance to modify and fine-tune the changes, is an admission of a lack of confidence, and from the many creative ideas The Isle has, from gen 1 and gen 2 to strains, that's not something I see them falling to.

[distant torrent]

the only thing I like about spiro is the freedom herbivores have of carnivores not knowing where exactly they’re going to be and the fact that you can find herbi food in a lot more places than gateway. at least with the diet glitch where everything is literally on your diet, you can move to wherever food exists. that includes other migration zones and the strange area along the river and around a little pond where herbi food always spawns sparsely. the sparse food is amazing for small groups of smaller herbivores and can feed them. it won’t feed a large group though

sparse food also spawns around the giant bridge on one side. haven’t found more sparse food outside of those little areas

[forest flower]

I'm not saying don't have new ideas. And I'm not even really saying that devs should cater to the community. But they should actually listen to the feedback the community gives. Test new ideas, sure. But if those ideas are received poorly, it deters a lot of people and even more so when it seems as though their complaints go unheard. Yes, developers create ideas and put out content for the game. But if they don't work with the community to find out what what's received well and what's not... people start getting disinterested or unmotivated.

What aggravates me most about the stamina changes is the haughty comments made about keeping it. "The community will adjust," "They'll learn how to better manage their stamina." Better management can only go so far. Just try walking from one migration zone to the next and see how long it takes you. Maybe with the right tweaks it could be better. But there's been no indication that tweaks will be made with those sorts of comments filtering around.

Another thing I don't understand is the changes made to carno acceleration. I couldn't care less if carno was left as it is now in Spiro or given a larger stamina pool as people desire. I don't play carno, I don't play dinos that can't get away from them. I don't even really hunt them. Overall have very little to do with carno. But even from an outside standpoint, I'm just wondering... why? Upped acceleration to further abuse an already very strong ability (charge) is about the worst buff they could have given carno. Balance it in other areas, not just enhance its preexisting strengths.

[slim dragon]

If they took feedback into consideration instantly they would just revert every change they make and we'd still be stuck with the game like it was at release

People say they don't like something before they properly test it, and that's why ignoring the first 2 weeks of feedback after a change is the best course of action
You may have noticed more and more people are starting to understand the new stamina and enjoy it, despite its flaws

[dusky surge]

and the devs have stated many adjustments will be made to make it more tolerable

[cobalt dagger]

I was a cera and ran into 3 carnos, I went into some shallow water because in the past I've noticed carnos can't charge through mud or water - but now they can? They were definitely able to charge me

[keen plover]

The taller you are, the better you are in shallow waters. Carno can run in places where cerato trots. Avoid facing Carno in shallow waters

[dense wedge]

Question how is a carnivore meant to travel across a large map when you arent supposed to run to travel? I just lost my troodon because i was starving and i couldnt find anything to eat in a 67 pop server. Am i supposed to trot? Trot when im losing hp?

[dusky surge]

i honestly think that comes more down to untuned stats like hunger drain

[dense wedge]

Damn always the drain

its never the stamina problem

[dusky surge]

it really isn't

[dense wedge]

sure because trotting across a huge map is the way to go

[dusky surge]

you dont need to sprint everywhere, and troodon has an excellent trot speed for its size

[dense wedge]

well i want to find food and i hear something, are you seriously asking me to trot towards it instead of running?

[dusky surge]

you can sprint if you want

[dense wedge]

cool idea, too bad i wont have stamina to fight it or chase it

[dusky surge]

lucky for you, they're modifying stam costs and trot speeds

[dense wedge]

i do love your optimism

[dusky surge]

what optimism that's literally what they're doing

it's realism lol

it's an objective fact

[dense wedge]

Because lowering drain rates will introduce another can of problems, mainly "I eat and I'm full, now what do I do"

[hasty coyote]

Start looking for your next meal before you get hungry again. Nest. Go explore the map. If you’re a sparring Dino, spar your packmates.

[magic badger]

Hello, I am considering suggesting some nerf to steggos so that they can't camp the waters edge so aggressively.

I want some others opinions on this as I am very new to the game and understand that herbivores need to be fun to play for carnivores to have actual players to prey upon.

[latent bay]

If youre suggesting for stego to get nerfed at all then you best suggest nerfs for deino that hit it twice as hard because if you just nerf stego then do nothing else Deinosuchus then literally rules free a la King K. Rool donkey kong level crap

[magic badger]

Okay, so the reason I was considering this was I saw last night a group of two steggos sit neck deep in a deep river and kill numerous deinos including multiple full growns in a face off with a constant group of about 10 deinosuchus.

So to me it seems that a steggo can comfortably kill a deino 1v1.

[dusky surge]

yea, it can

that's not a problem at all

if that many deinos died to stego, nothing more to say but damn those deinos are bad

they could've easily avoided them

or tanked a hit and swam by

[magic badger]

I came to roughly that conclusion. I followed the group around the rivers eating all the dead deinos (as did a few others I noticed). I just thought it was wrong to have stegos sitting happily in the water with that many deinosuchus around. Like that should still be something they avoided.

[dusky surge]

if the deinos knew how to kill them, they would be. fortuantly for those stego players, most deinos have no idea how to fight a stego

[cosmic pelican]

With good strategy 2 deinos are more than capable of killing a stego near the water
If the stego is crossing even 1 can be enough

Of course the stego always has the option to just run away, but so does deino

[magic badger]

Yeah, I've figured one actually swimming is just completely boned

[dusky surge]

if the stego swims, it's screwed

[magic badger]

Same for Deino going on land it makes sense

Yeah this is why I figured I'd ask in the discussions bit. I felt it was wrong but after asking some others I'm feeling like it's how it should be.

[hasty coyote]

A single deino can kill a stego if the stego is dumb.
I have even dove into 4 stegos to kill a wounded one that was dumb. And still made it out at a sliver of health.

[cobalt dagger]

@magic badger I think the reason why it's not considered an issue is because deino can avoid stego by swimming away. Or even stay hidden underwater, and stego may not even know he's there. Stego can only kill a deino if he catches deino on land, OR, deino comes up and bites him at the edge of the water.

If you stay under he won't see you, and every attack stego does takes stamina, so while they might randomly swing their tail a few times, they certainly won't be doing it constantly... Or someone is gonna pick them off while their stamina is low.

So, stay under, and leave him alone.
But if you attack stego when the stego is standing in shallow water or on land, you might die.

Attack stegos when they are swimming, or attack them when they have wasted their stamina. If you are fast creature like a raptor, you could practice baiting their tail swings - Trick them to swing the tail and dodge. Remember, it takes their stamina to do that. Once all that stamina is gone, they are quite helpless, and stego takes extra headshot damage to other animals. Stego has, if I remember correctly, 4000 hp, where croc has 8000, and raptor 1000. So, he has the hp of 4 raptors, but with extra head shot damage.

So, go as something nimble, something that can bait the swings. Or go Cera, a nimble creature that can cause animals to vomit when they bite them, and the vomite lowers the animal's stamina. These animals are better suited to take down a stego.

But croc, croc is not. In fact, croc kills everything EASILY with NO SKILL required, just-right-click and drown. And it doesn't kill other crocs 'easily' but kills other crocs in a fair match unless outnumbered.
The ONLY thing croc cannot kill, is stego.

Different animals have different match ups. If you went raptor or cera to try your luck at stegos, you won't be killing any crocs except very tiny ones too far away from water to escape you.

Everything's got stuff 'it can't kill,' some more than others, some less than others.

Stego can kill anything that refuses to run away from it, but cannot chase anyone except a croc on land or maybe another stego.

[golden coral]

Except stego would and should be able to swipe pouncers off it, it does have that flexibility of the tail. And not letting it do anything at all, is incredibly strange. Basically turning it entirely defenseless for no good reason, since it can't even attack those not pounced. Which also means it'll just die outright to any form of mixpack that has a juvie omni (or troodon if it works with those too) in it.

[magic badger]

Yeah, this is pretty much the understanding I came to, although I would say from my experience that if you drink at shallow patches a deino cannot catch you at all. You only really kill lazy or distracted players as a deino. The bulk of what I eat at least is scavenging or stealing stuff killed near the river by others.

[cobalt dagger]

This is true.

If you count how many deinos there are, you can sometimes count as many as 20 in Center river. And probably another 15-20 in the Northeast by Raptor Rock.

That's 35-40 players playing deino, not including deinos in other rivers and swamps around the map. So possibly more than 40% (only 100 players in a server) of the server is deino.

When THAT MUCH of people is playing deino, no where is safe to drink except those safe spots, and new players learn very quick.

In the new map, it's harder for deinos to camp every bit of water, and so players are drinking in deep areas with more confidence and safety. Except, sometimes there IS a deino there and then they get caught.

If you have too many deinos, it ruins it for deino. He's not a surprise anymore, he's EXPECTED, when over 40% of the server is croc.

You basically need less deinos for a deino to be able to ambush...

This will also apply to any animals that theme around ambush from rocks, trenches, bushes, ect.

If there's so many that they are expected, I will stay in open fields and away from anything where they could hide, and I'll only play as an animal that carno stands little chance against. Which might be stego.

But like...
If I had the choice, between playing something that grows faster, like in 2 hours, but dies a lot - vs, something that grows slow, like 5 hours, but will probably never die when it grows up?
I'm inclined to play the thing where my effort has permanence.

I bring this up because people say, oh, rex should just, eat teno when it sees it with no chance because, rex takes longer to grow-

And perhaps this is true, and if it comes to be, I will stop playing teno.

Then I would play Rex

There are more things that complicate this all. Personally, I would like to see every creature have at least some level of permnance or ability to survive, other than 'I was seen so now I die', and I would like to see every creature have something to fear, something that endangers it's permnance.

I asked deino players once, why they played croc, and most of them answered, 'because croc doesn't die.'

In large groups, if one cannibalizes another, another one will see it and cannibalize him because he's weak. So in a crowd, you have to cannibalize and heal secretly, which is hard. And reduces the cannibalism. Aside of cannibalism, deino can eat fish which are super plentiful, lives in the water and has premium access to the water... And he has the most hp of everyone.

If you play smart, your croc might live a very long time.

And so I am not surprised so much of the server is playing crocodile - It has a good amount of permanence. The only danger you can't control is cannibalism.

Everything can kill each other, my stegos have been killed by other stegos when they die.

But as croc, it's the ONLY thing I have to worry about.

As stego, cera, carno, even teno and raptor, I've had to worry about my own species or met an individual who wanted to kill their own, that in some of these cases killed me.

Croc I worry about this the same, but, for croc it's the only thing, for those others I all had other things I had to fear too.

[magic badger]

Yeah this was my main worry when playing, every game I’ve ever played with predators/prey has a lack of prey because people like it less. I was not entirely comfortable with deino being able to one shot grab.

[cobalt dagger]

I agree...

I mean, once upon a time I think it was a bit better

Not much better but a bit better,

Pachy used to be OP I hear, I never played in that time.

Teno used to be a lot better too. Then they nerfed them, who knows why.

I mean Pachy was op

That makes sense, but I don't get why teno was nerfed.

Right now, the prey is other carnivores.

And herbivores are underplayed and underpowered.

With the exception of stego.

He's fine.

[slim dragon]

Stego isn't even that powerful, it's saved by the fact it's so much bigger than the rest of the roster
If it had a land predator its size it would be fodder

[cobalt dagger]

Correction, he's fine 'for right now.'

In real life, herbivores have a lot of abilities to protect themselves with.

Carnivores just pick the weakest, easiest hunt out of the herd which can look very 'powerful' on the predator's part, but they are going for the easiest food... Not the hardest.

[slim dragon]

irl adult, healthy herbivores rarely get killed by predators

[magic badger]

I would only disagree with one thing about deino. Personally I feel the most vulnerable as a fully grown adult as my only predator (other deino) can now catch me. As a young deino I can always flee into the forest.

[cobalt dagger]

Well, that is why I said cannibalism was the only danger you could not control.

It is your only worry.

[magic badger]

It really is

[cobalt dagger]

I have that same worry as other species, in addition to starvation, and other species wanting to kill me.

Species that are faster than me or so overpowered I can't even dream of fighting them back,

Or dehydration because a 'safe drinking spot' isn't near and if I approach the water there's an 80% chance a deino grabs me

Deinos coming on land and stealing my food

Or even once, I was around a rock not on the water's edge, and a deino was hiding in a bush and grabbed me!

I was a raptor.

So once he grabbed me it was over/killed me

I've seen other raptors talk about or try to kill other raptors

I've seen killer tenos and pachys, working together no less to kill other herbivores

My favorite stego was killed by other stegos, I feel no safer from cannibals by not playing deino.

But I've actually killed some crocs before as crocs.

So at least, I feel like, I can try to fight them.

As long as I am not out-numbered.

But the deino popping out of the bush and killing my raptor, no chance, no ability to react or fight back, I simply die.

I had a similar instance with a group of 3 carnos ramming my tenos, and my ceras.

Can't outrun them, can't fight them, they do a knock down attack that reduces your ability to react... So you kinda just, die.

Cannibals of your own species are easier in one sense, the only edge up they can get is numbers, and who bit first.

Numbers is a massive different.

difference though*

[neon willow]

Stego has 6k hp, deino has 8k, and omniraptor has 450. (For reference, teno has 1600 and carno 1800, pachy has 500-- HP is equal to weight). But otherwise right

Really the isle is going to need to make smaller creatures and herbivores a lot more fun (even during the small/weak phases of growth) because a lot of people naturally trend towards playing the thing with the most interaction and least chance of death, which, right now, means best at combat aka large, high hp, high damage builds

[thin mantle]

accept for stego

[dusky surge]

every HP is equal to weight. Raptor is 450, stego 6000, deino is 8000

[cobalt dagger]

Good to know about hp, I saw someone say that stuff about hp but perhaps it was outdated.

[dusky surge]

very outdated

[cobalt dagger]

I agree they need to make herbivores fun

Unfortunately, people tend to think whatever gets kills is fun, so that is what they play

Stego and deino both live pretty good after they reach adult hood, and they are both very strong, but deino can go invisible under water and camps an essential resource for every creature, while being invisible, allowing it to get more kills.

[lone timber]

man, i feel you on this. i dont complain about any dino on the roster except deino, feels like such free kills with no risk involved. like you said, fish are plentiful so theoretically they can be in any body of water

[quasi sandal]

@tropic horizon i think pachy headshots already do reduced damage (or at least not increased as compared to body hit)? Correct me if i'm wrong but i am pretty sure this is already a thing

[dusky surge]

pachys take 0.75x damage to head

compared to the regular 1.5x

[lone timber]

besides pachy trot, i feel like all of the dinos are really solid but deinos don't have a counter or telltale sign. each time i get water, my playthrough can come to an end because someone knows how to click the right mouse button. since deino is easy to grow, its true that a huge chunk of the server playerbase is just afk growing in the water with fish

[distant torrent]

does fg deino on gateway still get the same absurd amount of food from school fish and elite fish?

[cosmic lily]

watch out on na1 some sus pachys were bonking at night in the forest and were able to find people a little too easily at night.....

[stark knoll]

Check the pinned messages in #evrima-na to see how to report suspected hackers

[rigid tulip]

Teno pachy and troodon are garbage and im tired of pretending like they arent

I have more success on pachy than teno surviving. With its ridiculously good camo skin u can hide, bonk until u get a legbreak then run. Not fun whatsoever and it takes vastly more effort than the carnivore does, but it still has a viable option for surviving cera omni carno. Teno on the other hand has to literally miss 0 shots on the easiest to miss attack in the game, get charged/charge bited no more than once (significantly easier to hit than tailslam) just to live. And if ur going against more than 2, even if you play mathematically perfectly you literally run out of damage. Like you become physically incapable of fighting back because of the new stamina system hitting teno THE HARDEST

I think the stamina system is good in concept, to keep the game away from an arcade run around and kill sim. But in its implementation, it made the issues with 6.5 combat vastly worse in ever way. Herbs were already dogshite and carno charge was already the king of the combat system. Now those low risk carnivore abilities are even more valuable, considering the high risk abilities got even higher in risk from this stamina change. Not to mention the literal wall of “f you” you get when you do run out of stam as any dino that isnt a large carnivore. You just have to watch yourself not be able to do damage, its horrid. Troodon, pachy, teno, stego to a lesser extent all suffer from this.

Carno cera and omni just have complete freedom to make mistakes/make plays compared to the aforementioned dinos

[keen plover]

Stam is one thing. The bleed and health regen is overkill lmao. Feels like a half an hour timeout

They really need to buff healing overall. Not being able to heal on the move is one thing, but healing while sitting takes a crazy amount of time.

[slim dragon]

They really need to make healing into an active prospect

It's exactly how I said it shouldn't be
Healing now takes much longer to "punish" people for fighting too much, but in the end it just prevents you from playing the game for even longer
If healing was part of the game instead of just waiting, it wouldn't be as agonizing

But as it is now it might as well just be a loading screen

[keen plover]

Pretty much that. I wish there was an active alternative. Maybe they can make it so you heal up to half health quickly or whatever threshold. So you have some health but from then on you need something to actively heal quickly? If not you afk and take a while to heal the last portion. Something like that

[olive zinc]

that's what I would say all these changes are doing in general. Preventing you from playing the game as much as possible.

[slim dragon]

#general-feedback message

[keen plover]

Great suggestion 👍

[stable quest]

You need to pick your battles as teno. I do agree that yes if you are fighting two carnos you will most likely die either to loss of stam, or they kill u before then, but teno is a defensive creature you need to use everything to your advantage. If you're caught in the open or just off guard it can be game over. Using rocks, water, or even bushes to escape will already increase ur chances of survival, but sometimes there just isnt anything that can be done, that doesnt make teno bad it just has situations its not always mean to win or survive from.

Tbh the only problem I have with teno is it's water drain. I'm fine with it needing water but the fact that my gameplay can just come to an end because a deino can survive in any body of water from just fish can allow them to be ANYWHERE. Teno is drinking constantly and if ur not dying to carnos (the least of ur worries) you will die to a deino 100% and no way to get away from it. I get its an apex so you shouldn't be surviving against it but they don't even have to bite you, one grab and that's game over. I'd rather fight 2-3 carnos than have to drink water. I will dehydrate before dying to a deino sitting in the middle of a nowhere drinking spot.

[distant torrent]

all teno needs to be able to do to be in a great spot for tweaking is to be able to stop carno’s ram with its slam again and for it to be able to do every non-biting attack while vomitting

that alone will increase its survivability so much, which was needed for so long and still is needed

saying teno can pick its battles is a bit on the funny side tbh lol it’s slower than all of its land carnivores except cera, and even that can easily outstam the teno. there are no rocks on gateway that teno can get onto that something like a cera or carno can’t (if there are, I haven’t found any yet)

teno has been gutted so much it’s not even funny. I’m still scratching my head over why tail slam was nerfed to do a pathetic 150 damage and the hitbox of kick is still incredibly wonky and seemingly small

teno’s poor ability to defend itself really shows on spiro with the player count of each playable. that’s why you see the majority of people playing the more viable options where they won’t just die the moment they’re seen with a slim chance of survival. those viable playables being cera, omni, deino, and carno

which happens to be… all carnivores..

for some odd reason…

[hasty coyote]

I had a issue from the start, “teno needs to pick its battles”… how? When all the carnivores are just as fast or faster, how is it teno’s choice to fight when it can’t escape them. It’s on the defensive constantly, and still has to outplay the opponent, that’s the issue. It shouldn’t be teno’a job to outskill the predators, it’s on the predators to outskill their prey.

The whole balance of this game is about having the ability to either fight or flee from any other dino (I’d consider unique abilities like fracture to be in flee). Unless you’re doing something REALLY dumb or are just severely outnumbered, you should have the ability to survive the situation. If a Dino always dies the moment something else sees it because it’s stronger and faster, then it’s unviable.

[lone timber]

interesting take but i do not share this opinion. teno can afford to miss attacks but you cannot be careless with stam anymore. i've yet to die in a solo fight with teno vs carno or cera or omni at all on gateway and i've logged so many hours on the stress test. the tail slam has amazing range with a long stun duration that guarantees a free kick. kick also guarantees another free kick on its own. the only times i have died as teno on about 10 hours of gameplay was to a deino and a pack of 6 ceras that i was willing to deathmatch with

[lone timber]

there are a bunch around river delta and highlands that create advantages for teno. not to say cera or carno can't get up on some of those as well, but making carnis climb up to teno is a big advantage and makes it really risky for them to sprint off a rock and break their leg or get stuck trying to run up or down

[distant torrent]

that unfortunately still doesn’t justify the state teno’s in after their ankles were kicked at for several updates. it’s only a matter of time before the teno population drops to almost 0 again after gateway’s been out for a bit

teno’s supposed to be a good brawler (from what I’ve heard). it shouldn’t need to immediately get to rocks to have a chance for survival when two ceras see it or even one carno because of its new accel and the fact ram goes through slam

yea you can still make teno look good if you’re a good player, but like rapdex said, herbivores shouldn’t have to always be needing to outskill their carnivore counterparts constantly. it needs to be the other way around, or you’re going to see a decline in that particular herbivore population and a sharp rise in the carnivore population

if things like cera, carno, and etc. needed the same amount of skill as teno to be good and had the same skill ceiling/floor, then I wouldn’t see it as much as an issue it is now

[thin mantle]

It’s also just a bizarre expectation for teno to use water as a defensive tool when migrations constantly take them away from water sources they can use

[tall bronze]

Actually, now don't quote me because I'm not 100% sure on this, but I had heard something about Don being interested in pushing Teno to be more water based and making it smaller. Punch had also talked about them having plans for Teno to cross over to islands n such. So perhaps in the future, relying on water will be more reliable for it.

Again though, not 100% sure 👍

[thin mantle]

Would be a profoundly strange roll for it tbh

[lone timber]

teno is already a good though. if you're using any dino and missing a majority or half of your special attacks then winning will be very difficult regardless of the pick

[thin mantle]

The difficulty and cost of landing said attacks is what separates teno from those other Dino’s

It’s also one of the few Dino’s that’s forced into engaging every creature in the game because of its speed

Like current Carno charge decimates teno

It can’t be caught and requires no windup

Cerato also has the advantage due to vomit being indirectly buffed by how stam works now

[lone timber]

cerato has a tough matchup against teno, if the charged bite doesn't make you throw up then teno wins the trade with two head kicks when cerato lunges forwards

since they have similar speeds, there is no reason a cerato should be able to land a headbite on you either

i'll concede carno is tough for teno but it is what it is. there's matchup advantages with any fight and a carno should win that fight but thats not to say that teno has absolutely no counter to avoid it bc thats not true either

[thin mantle]

They simply don't, cerato has a higher damage output both in singular hits and in dps, it can cripple tenos stam and has better mobility in general than it

The amount of downtime between slams, kicks, or alts allows a lot of punishment windows

If you land 5 hits on a full food teno you basically win the fight

Just exhaust them with baits

[lone timber]

doesn't that work both ways though? are we just assuming that the teno player is just afk and allowing the cera to do what it wants

if you are getting baited then you're getting outplayed, nothing any balance can do about skill

if a cera fights you and you have low food then thats just cera's strengths shining in that specific situation and not teno being bad

[distant torrent]

so what I’m hearing is nerf teno again by reducing its weight

[lone timber]

also please any teno players reading, you should not be alt attacking a cera under any circumstance. cera vs teno 1v1 should be the teno pointing its tail towards the cera and making the cera earn every tail bite. if the cera dares to use charge bite and the teno has enough food to withstand a bite, then tank the bite and kick the cera in the head twice

[dusky surge]

Honestly I respect it

Because mid-tier generalist brawler was already being taken by Diablo now

Making teno a pseudo-mid tier semi-aquatic herbivore adds a lot more interesting stuff to its kit

[tall bronze]

If it is true, sounds more like "readjust Teno's purpose"

[halcyon elk]

While also buffing it by allowing it to completely bypass their major predators by just...swimming to an off coast island.

[distant torrent]

as long as it doesn’t gut teno more somehow I’ll be fine with it. I just hope it’s not another “looks good on paper but is horrid when pushed into play” like cera’s vomit, the current horde test migration, and carno’s accel with its unchanged ram

[dusky surge]

i reckon its the right move

i see too much overlap with diablo and teno in terms of niche plans

pseudo-mid tier is great because unlike mid-tier, every single animal has a unique niche and design that seperates them from others in their weightclass

(i stand by midtier being absolutely awful though in terms of niche diversity)

[fallow blaze]

I also really like the idea of ​​using the Teno as a "pioneer" to "populate" islands.
Whether that was realistic for him remains to be seen.
But animals did it in different ways and seeing that in a game is very interesting.
The Teno seems to me to be the best choice for this given current lineup.

Dimorphism among the dinosaurs is also expected to occur. I don't remember when I read that... that males can be smaller than females, for example.
That's why a smaller Teno wouldn't bother me.

to what was written about diablo:
I'm also really looking forward to Diablo. He was one of my favorite mid-tier's in Lagecy.
I really liked him in the stream where he fought against the Dilo's (2vs2).
Slow attacks with a good body turn.
not OP.
He will not be underestimated among the mid-tiers. A ceratopsian shouldn't be either.
One also lost against Dilo.

I'm already not going to like it when the community shouts: make him weaker.
He is a solid mid-tier. I'm looking forward to the tests.

[dusky surge]

i mean, diablo barely is a mid-tier tbh

when you compare it (1500kg) to a true mid-tier like allo (2700-3000kg), it's clearly not on the same level

also diablo losing to dilo is concerning to say the least

[fallow blaze]

yes, that is a fact.
I don't have that much data to really back it up.
I go by feeling.
I think mid-tier means something different for everyone. or for me.

For me, mid-tiers are 50% strength and 50% weakness. or slightly shifted in that ratio.
Within the mid-tiers I would dare to say that there are different gradations.
I agree with you about the Allo.
For me it would be like the carno at the upper end of the mid-tiers.
diablo would be in the lower segment.
He would be stronger than Pachy, Utah for me
maybe even almost on the same level as Teno (weight, health points, weapons)
Diablo wouldn't be a low tier for me.

[dusky surge]

midtiers are to me literally the middle of the size range

so 2-4 tons is generally that mark

1-2 tons is pseudo-mid and 4-7 tons is around large tier

[fallow blaze]

Agree

[dusky surge]

carno isn't even an upper end of the midtiers lol

its barely even a midtier itself

and if diablo wasn't stronger than omni or pachy, that'd be very concerning

[fallow blaze]

no, everything is okay haha
you found the better words:
1-2 tons is pseudo-mid and 4-7 tons is around large tier

I couldn't express it 😄

[dusky surge]

my primary issue i've seen with diablo so far is that it has things like limited mobility, highly directional attacks and an exceptional vulnerability to flanks. Tenonto doesn't have any of these issues with its decent sprint, swim and trot speeds and the ability to attack from forward and behind

in the diablo v dilo fight specifically, it was very easy for dilo to be fearless of the diablo, as it lacks stuns to really put it down, or the mobility to pressure it

[fallow blaze]

I agree. That shouldn't be the case under any circumstances.

[dusky surge]

im hoping diablo is good. It seems to have very powerful attacks, at least

my issue arises in that its very poor at controlling engagements

it can be said that diablo does have an advantage in tankiness as it almost definitely has reduced damage to its head, akin to pachy

[fallow blaze]

yes, but I think the Diablo can also have these problems.
against an agile opponent like Dilo, such problems should also be present.
Teno and Diablo couldn't be more different in terms of body structure.
one is narrow and long and the other is more of a pug/bulldog among dinosaurs.
it wouldn't be right if they were too similar.
I'm pretty sure that the Diablo will shine in his own way in Evrima.

You saw in the fight against Dilo very good
that the diablo combined the side step with the turn.
and was “actually quite fast”. Surely Carno and Allo will have fewer problems with him. But opponents in his weight class or below are more likely.
His attacks are slow but they seems to be powerful. I bet that. Dilo needed, two attacks until death? I think it was... its ok for me.

[fallow blaze]

yes, I see it the same way.
I think as a ceratopsian his damage will be slightly higher in relation to his body (weight).
than with Pachy.
the pachy attacks with a blunt weapon.
while the diablo tends to use its 2 front horns.

That's theory, but I think it will hurt more.

[halcyon elk]

Btw those were powered up alts last i heard. Hence why not, "immediate violence"

[solar meteor]

from what little we've seen, it looks like they'll be very easily overwhelmed

the alt attack takes a really long time to through

[dusky surge]

the alt-attack was said to be too slow on stream though

like, it's not meant to be that slow

[solar meteor]

i hope they overtune the dibble and it comes out op

we need an op herbi that's not an apex

[dusky surge]

would be a nice change of pace for the herbis

i mean, they already had an OP herbi with pachy tbh, but pachy was unique in that it just kinda screwed over tenonto with zero counterplay and ended up being played as a discount carnivore

[solar meteor]

being a herbi just sucks, i really like playing them but it's a miserable experience due to how weak they are

[dusky surge]

agreed

why play dryo or hypsi when troodon or ptera exist?
why play pachy when omni exists?
why play teno when cera and carno exists?
why play stego when deino exists?

[solar meteor]

well that's a poor argument as they fit different roles,

and stego clowns on deino rn

but everone else gets destroyed by their carnivore counterpart

[dusky surge]

yea, only if the deino is a fool. stego's only redeeming quality is it can skillcheck those overtuned lizards

if the deino is smart, stego is not an issue it ever concerns itself with

[dusky surge]

teno and cera is very fitting

both animals are generalist, slower paced brawler animals reliant on high burst damage and dissuading reckless approach, combined with an affinity for water

except cera has more stuff. It does more damage with charge bite than any of teno's attacks. Its stun is much easier to pull off and far more brutal, obliterating stats like stamina. It has a more efficient bleed output and bleed resistance. It has several sources of damage resist

cerato is, by all means, a better teno atm

it fulfils many of the same core ideas, except it's a carni, not a herbi

[slim dragon]

Add to this the fact carnis have easier and better diets than herbis, boom
Only upsides

[dusky surge]

its why the hype for diablo i both love and hate.

yes, people have a right to be excited about this brand new "good" herbivore, but why does an actually powerful herbivore need to be something to get excited over? Why are people genuinely celebrating the fact that there exists a chance that the herbivore roster gets a member that isn't bad? Should that not be a given?

It's like they believe diablo solves the issue, but no. If it ends up being good, then all it will be is a good herbi in a group of otherwise unviable or unfinished animals, a shiny rock on the top of a trashheap

im also excited for diablo, but it irks me that part of that reason is being able to experience herbi again without feeling like i've chosen the worst of two options

[slim dragon]

eat grass

[mental roost]

Anything that eats grass and leaves, should be an immediate easy meal with no threat whatsoever

I as a carno should be able to ram a stego despite it being 6 tons, quadrupedal and completely unable to dodge my attack.

This is sarcasm by the way and a joke, please do not crucify me

[slim dragon]

#balance-feedback message

[dusky surge]

i love the fact that we have proof people actually want this

[mental roost]

I am still shocked that was genuine

[slim dragon]

This piece of feedback alone got my power level rising above 9 000

[fallow blaze]

good morning. well I really enjoy playing Herbi lol
They are no longer as weak and glass cannons as in Lagecy. Of course, Lagecy was beyond broken. In comparison, in Evrima you still have the feeling that you can pull something off.
and yes I know, many people hate this argument because everyone thinks in 1vs1, but if you play herbis in a herd, they are anything but weak. Of course I'm not talking about hypsi lol.There are also many players who love to play in a herd. At Gateway we were 12 gallis. and on that scale everyone loved it. Until someone said: He would lead us to the water (we were dying of thirst) and then we stood in front of the sea. lol everyone was doomed to die.

[dusky surge]

if you played herbis in legacy they weren't weak

does that mean they were good? hell no

if i play carnivores in a pack, they're better than herbis in a herd. so why would i play herbis in a herd

[slim dragon]

Being good in herds=being bad

[dusky surge]

the implication that you need to find enough of other herbivores of your species that braved their worse juvi stages and worse solo survival ability so you can actually for a brief fleeting moment think that you're viable is hysterical to me

why not play carnivores, that can better survive on their own and fight on their own and grow on their own

[fallow blaze]

yes, but remember: if every dinosaur were very good at 1vs1 then every herd would be OP

I came to Lagecy quite late. you could only play the trike. because everyone else was just playing apexe. There was nothing that could be done against Diablo, Pachy could do nothing, Para could do nothing, Maya was still able to run away. Shant was only good because he was broken. Otherwise I really haven't had any notable good experiences with Herbis in Lagecy.

[dusky surge]

you know there's a reason why carnivores irl pick the weakest, slowest and most damaged of the herd, right? It's because it's too dangerous to face off against the healthier members. Herds are something a carnivore should have to plan around, not something herbivores need as a pre-requisite for survival in a game where large packs of carnivores can easily exist

herds SHOULD be powerful

you should feel empowered by the presence of other members, not meek and mild because you don't have one

because you aren't guaranteed a herd

and if you aren't guaranteed a herd as a herbi, you aren't guaranteed survival

and if you aren't guaranteed survival, you certainly are not guaranteed to have fun playing the weak, meek, mild-mannered herbivore over the mighty, self-sufficient carnivores

[calm ibex]

the fact that carnivores can pick their fights is not appreciated enough, its almost impossible to die

[slim dragon]

Galli, omni and troodon are good examples of pack-oriented animals done well
They're made to form packs or herds in order to exploit their full potential
Yet they're perfectly viable solo

[fallow blaze]

because you don't always want to play carni.
Besides, it’s like that in nature too.
It is also confirmed that some dinosaurs ran in a herd. Why not make that part of the game: quantity instead of class.
Not every Isle player likes to be the lone wolf. That's the point. you are more powerful in a herd. I never spoke of gentleness.

[calm ibex]

in nature you have more herbivores than carnivores, that is not the case here

[dusky surge]

raptors, for instance, are strong and self-capable with and without packs. As a raptor, I can kill smaller creatures solo, I can feed and scavenge what I find and I can flee anything that seems too big for me. At no point do I feel like I'm on the back foot, because I always have an option

hell, I main TROODON, and I have a better time going at that animal solo than a tenonto or pachy. The little 60kg snake mocked for being a worthless group-reliant animal is more viable solo than the 1600kg brawler. It is such a ridiculous issue that carnivores have it this easy.

[slim dragon]

If herbis can't survive alone without a herd, where are you going to find a herd to protect you ?
Animals irl don't spawn alone in the wild
Especially not herding ones
Also this game isn't supposed to replicate real life, it's supposed to be a game

[dusky surge]

when troodon, the animal advertised to be a group-reliant horde animal, is a better solo creature than pachy or tenonto, there's an undeniable problem

i struggle to grow to full on either pachy on tenonto. With Troodon, I can survive a time period equal to three tenonto growthcycles comfortably

that's absurd

[fallow blaze]

you are absolutely right. the devs are developing the game in both directions.
realistic and unrealistic.

but I think it's wrong to say that the herbis in the isle are simply too weak. They are not that at all.
A good teno player kills an average carno player. a dryo can be dangerous for a Utah/Omni. the dryo doesn't do too little damage.
In the end it's all about skill.

[dusky surge]

you should be more powerful in a herd, but atm, you aren't more powerful in a herd, you just AREN'T WEAK

there's a very clear distinction to make. Herds do not bolster the herbivore's existing strengths, they just make them less bad because now you have friends to increase potential

[slim dragon]

A good teno player shouldn't kill one average carno player, that's the problem
It should be able to kill 2 or 3

[dusky surge]

the fact that it takes a good teno player to kill an average carno should already be raising red flags

[slim dragon]

Also uh how is a dryo dangerous to an omni player ?
Omni has 4x more health, 4x more damage, and an instakill move
If an omni dies to a dryo it's a massive skill issue

[dusky surge]

it can and it's really funny

[slim dragon]

It can literally facetank the dryo even if it waited to be half HP to react

[fallow blaze]

Balance is a journey of degrees.
Because in your example the Carnos would be crying again: Teno is too strong makes him weaker - we've had all of that in the past.

Please don't take my words too seriously. English is not my language. I agree with you, especially in the Teno example.

I agree with Charcha and that's what I meant: in a herd, weaknesses are compensated for.

[dusky surge]

good, carnos should have to work to make a kill

pick off the weak and young

y'know, like carnivores

[fallow blaze]

absolutely right

[fallow blaze]

love it

[dusky surge]

carnos don't do that atm. They have a right click

the right click is the entire engagement

[slim dragon]

Well if we're trying to make balance going by the rule of "don't do anything that would make carni mains cry" we're on the right path

[dusky surge]

true lol

i still stand by the idea that if a trike is facing a rex before the rex can even make an attack, it's lost

the only chance a rex should have is starting off with ambush and then skillfully fighting the thing to the death

[fallow blaze]

But the people here sadly don't want to work for hunting. You're already reading that in the gateway comments.

fixed the endurance. In a hunt I have no stamina / in a fight I have no stamina regenerated too weak

• then don't run across the map and play more strategically

Makes the rain quieter, I don't hear any more footsteps

• that's what I call a successful hunt for a carni who takes advantage of the rain.

take away the fog, I can't hunt or see my attacker

• be more attentive

People hate anything that makes the Isle more difficult than on Spiro.
That's why I think nothing will ever change much.
same with stronger herbis

[slim dragon]

The idea is not to cater to what casual players want in their comfort zone
It's to make an engaging game
Which needs adding difficulty and risk to the equation

If in chess, the white player had only queens because it's more convenient for him, he would have everything he could hope for
Yet the game wouldn't be any more interesting, in fact it would be much less so

[dusky surge]

the reason i'm so nostalgic for updates like the U3.75-U5 period is because that was back when herbis were strong. Where playing tenonto and trotting around commanded an aura of respect, and brave and skilled carnivores would run up and actually put you to the test.

Or inversely, cooperating with my omni pack to fell a teno or a stego felt wildly satisfying, these powerful animals overwhelmed by raw skill, power and teamwork. Now? I can harrass a pachy till they have lost around 50% health as a troodon. That aura of power and respect is gone, herbis feel like food, not animals that you need to uniquely strategise around

[fallow blaze]

Yes, I love any addition that makes the game more difficult and also hinders the senses a bit.
It's supposed to be a survival horror game, if I'm correctly informed.

charchar recently talked about the work of a dev: your own visions and what the community wants.
We just don't know which feedback the devs take more offense to.

[slim dragon]

This is also why I advocate for buffing the hell out of AI
I don't care about ease of life as a carnivore
I play carnivore for the thrill of the hunt, if the hunt isn't hard, then it's not rewarding
Give boars 50% damage resist so they can tank a carno charge
Buff deers speed to 70 km/h, and allow them to attack small animals
Give goat the ability to jump and climb cliffs and some trees
Now we're talking

[fallow blaze]

That's how it was for me in Lagecy. Out of 100 players, 80 play apexes
which is why I moved to the mid-tiers. was simply more exciting. You were hunter and prey at the same time and I loved the feeling "I have to be vigilant"

[dusky surge]

i remember facing off against 3 sub-adult carnos as a tenonto and beating them down, and going "damn, that was skill". Inversely, I recall 2 insanely competent carnos really messing me up, and me going "wow that guy actually knows how to play carno".

I remember killing my first tenonto after thinking that it was a bastion of power in a group of omnis and enjoying the actual fruits of our labour because it was such an achievement. I remember playing a carno with a single packmate and barely scraping through after being attacked by 4 very angry tenontos, losing my packmate in the process

it was genuinely a matter of skill over stats, because tenonto hit HARD, but if you didn't know how to combo well as a tenonto or time your attacks, that didn't matter, and you got hit down regardless

[slim dragon]

Well I don't usually talk ill of devs because I think developing a game is an astounding work and one of the greatest forms of art
But if they believe making carnivores stronger than their herbivore counterpart on a regular basis to prevent carni players from crying they need to learn how games are made

[dusky surge]

The best way to get a more balanced roster is ironically making the herbis strong, but fair. People gravitate to that feeling of power, and carnis will never not be played

[fallow blaze]

I love these moments. I understand you well

[slim dragon]

I remember managing to get away from an adult and a juvie carno as a sub pachy, (because pachy was OP) but it felt like I played my cards right and got rewarded for it

[dusky surge]

The reason animals like pachy sucked when it was strong was because it was unfairly powerful

It was insanely unrewarding and unengaging to face against, the animal ran around and just ruined people's days because nothing ever stopped it

The power it had derived from mechanics that were complete dookie, and were insanely punishing

[slim dragon]

Yeah but I'm not a good enough player to do that
I just enjoyed the feeling of being a herbivore yet being able to fend off predators and running away alive

[fallow blaze]

and because the players also abused this mechanic.

I find it worth playing again today

[dusky surge]

absolutely not lol

pachy went from unfairly broken to unfairly horrid

[slim dragon]

Doesn't pachy just die the moment a cerato sees it ?

[dusky surge]

pachy is punished for attempting to defend itself

[dusky surge]

essentially, yes

[fallow blaze]

pachy was so bad that he couldn't even knock over an omni. He can do that again now.
that's enough for me

[dusky surge]

it has literally never not been able to knock over an omni

idk what you are talking about tbh

[fallow blaze]

just his right click attack.
I mean you hit the omni and it "flies back"/lies on the ground.
If I remember correctly, he hasn't been able to do it since update 6. Even his alt attack couldn't knock Utah to the ground. I recently looked at the office again = oh wow the right click works again.

[keen plover]

I hope pachy can trot faster than cerato with the trot changes

[dusky surge]

same

[keen plover]

Especially when you consider the stam regen changes. I don’t think a pachy should worry about being trot down by a cera

I’m interested to test what happens when you bleed a pachy and chase after it with the new stam changes + tracking :o

Anyways, I do agree that herbis should be equipped with tools to evade / fight better.

[fallow blaze]

same here. pachy is 1,6kmh faster but you hardly notice it

[keen plover]

Teno needs a water related kit to fend off predators around water better, while also changing its tail slam to be more versatile. Make it directional if possible

Also let it cancel a carnos ram if possible

Also some tweaking to stam costs & it’s pretty well rounded.

Won’t drop immediately at the sight of 2 or more same size carnivores if played well.

[fallow blaze]

@slim dragon @dusky surge thank you for the nice conversation. It was fun, I appreciate it.

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message teno left click is bite..

[shadow vortex]

I want teno to be able to go below the surface and feed on algae :(

[calm ibex]

reaaallly tempted to drop ****post on feedback

[cobalt dagger]

I agree a lot with the suggested changes and thoughts through the whole conversation I read

That herbivores need to be strong and fair, and carnivores need to look for weak ones like they do naturally.

Especially because in the wild herbivores don't start life alone, but in this game they do

[hasty coyote]

I got a pachy on NA1 of gateway atm if you do want to test that some time.

[keen plover]

I have a teno there :O

[cobalt dagger]

Did they make pachy get thirsty faster in Gateway?

It seems to be getting thristy a lot

[slim dragon]

@dusky surge Someone mentioned Dead by Daylight
Go roast them

[dusky surge]

ew

OH GROSS

I read the actual suggestion

if you've played DbD for more than 5 minutes, you realise that skill checks are super easy to do

a deino's food relying on how good their opponent is on pressing a single key is absurd

im not a deino main by any means but this is just horrid

[wheat forum]

Wow I guess your a Deino main, I mean The skill checks are a suggestion and the dbd skill checks are also ment as an example, you do realize that Deinos current grab is broken, you also know that cocodiles can lounge as far as they do in this game…

[dusky surge]

im not a deino main lol

[wheat forum]

I also never said a single key

[dusky surge]

thats how a skillcheck works

in the DbD comparsion

[wheat forum]

There are different types of skill checks some where you press randoom Keys some where you need to follow a path etc

[dusky surge]

deino's current grab is broken, and there are a few solutions

A: Add "counterplay", entirely making deino worthless
B: Accept deino as the unfair bastard it is
C: Remove deino

lunge's design is really polarising

adding a skill check would make deino horrid

[wheat forum]

And my suggestion to add counterplay was as said the option to wrestle free, also if you are in the water the Deino can bite you and or grab you again no one swims faster than a Deino so it’s not gona make it worthless

[dusky surge]

imagine if the devs purposely added a feature where there exists a 25% chance that raptor pounce just bounces off and does nothing

[dusky surge]

wrestling free shouldn't be a thing regardless for most animals

deino vastly outsizes its prey, its unlikely to break free

[wheat forum]

You know even antilopes can get free from a crocodiles Grab same with zebras :/

[dusky surge]

and antilopes and zebras are closer to a croc's weight than a carno is to a deino

a deino is so significantly larger its barely a comparison

[surreal cosmos]

Attacking the eyes isnt weight based there should be some form of a fight so its fun for both parties

[wheat forum]

Well why don’t we also add that Deino oneshot everyone when hitting the head as I don’t think a skill would survive getting crusched

[dusky surge]

that's not fun for both parties

a random skillcheck making your attack worthless isn't fun

[surreal cosmos]

explain worthless?

[wheat forum]

True it’s not fun for the Deino to win any fight once you get grabed, also I said that a skill check is an example

[surreal cosmos]

I dont play deino because its so boring

[dusky surge]

same

[surreal cosmos]

deino v deino first hit wins, deino v anything other than stego is grab and win

[wheat forum]

And I also said that it could reduce stam etc and if you get your pray in the water it is still to your advantage even if you let go, you can also grab them again

[surreal cosmos]

I think deino gameplay could be improved with animations and mechanics

[slim dragon]

In the defense of DbD there are hard skillchecks
But still, it's not fun if it only depends on one player pressing the right button

Right now the prey has 0 counterplay to being grabbed
If it was skillcheck-dependent then the deino would have 0 counterplay, it'd just grab and hope the other player is too bad to get out of its jaws

There's still 0 skill expression

[surreal cosmos]

so alternitive is someone looses a dino they grew for 2 hours just because?

[surreal cosmos]

well they could also add counter plays for the deino

[slim dragon]

It's not even an alternative
As Wave said, there's only 3 options when it comes to deino and all 3 are bad

[slim dragon]

Then might as well just rework the lunge

[wheat forum]

Well it could also be like in BF4 if you get knifes you can press V to counter knife so why not add something like that where if the grabed player gets a skill check the Deino gets one to potentially counter that skill check

[dusky surge]

and yet people learn how to hit them every time

[surreal cosmos]

doesnt even have to be skill checks

just something to make the damn gameplay loop more enjoyable

[wheat forum]

I want to see you do a perfect run with 0 failed skill checks and I won’t say anything else

[slim dragon]

Not the hard ones
But these depend more on luck and ping than full-on skill

[dusky surge]

i hate DbD why would I subject myself to that lol

[wheat forum]

Because you can’t do skill checks?

[dusky surge]

no?

because the game is bad and boring to me

[obtuse ocean]

Whats up with the skill talk ? What do you mean with skill ? Understanding and timing is a skill, not the "bite" itself needs to be.

[wheat forum]

And the isle is better?

[surreal cosmos]

alright we are discussing the isle guys keep on track xD

[dusky surge]

yes

[wheat forum]

#balance-feedback message

[dusky surge]

DbD skill check

[wheat forum]

It’s not dbd skill check ffs it was used as an example, I mean I said it multiple times

[surreal cosmos]

an actual stam battle before being dragged into the water would also be decent (depending on the dinos weight ofc)

[obtuse ocean]

Dont like it, what do you mean skill is then ? Tons of stuff will insta kill stuff in the game

[dusky surge]

except that also would make no sense due to the size difference

a carno winning a stam battle is absurd

[obtuse ocean]

I get that its "luck" cus you cant really see the deino,

[surreal cosmos]

ever see a nile croc ?

they are massive and they still have to fight to drag in a wildabeest

[dusky surge]

yes. they are not nearly as far from their prey in weight as a deino

[surreal cosmos]

well okay then if your going down the realsim route

[dusky surge]

i'd like to see a nile croc over 4x larger than an adult wilderbeest, because i dont think that exists

[surreal cosmos]

why doesnt a deino one shot a stego to the head?

[obtuse ocean]

If they had human brain, like we do. Crocs would be extinct, your friends would kill the croc not run

[surreal cosmos]

what?

[obtuse ocean]

If i need to stand on the shore line and have a drag fight with you, what do you think happends when your friends start attacking me from all the sides. I either need to let go or die

[surreal cosmos]

Im talking about when a croc grabs a wildabeest etc it has to fight to drag it in

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, you cant take real life and balance according to real life

[surreal cosmos]

Depends on the dinos attacking you

and what you choose to attack

same happens to us on land

omni pounce their freidn can hit you off the side

why should deino be any different ??

[obtuse ocean]

Even carnos would screw me over if i attacked you, and had a drag fight with you.

[surreal cosmos]

we do the same on land dont see why deino should be exempt from risk??

if you want no risk eat fish

Dont get your point

[obtuse ocean]

Cus they are huge, first off. And they are not oppressive on land , like others. So they dont have that luxery either

[surreal cosmos]

I see deinos leave the water and rob bodies all the time what you mean lol

[obtuse ocean]

You know carno is small compared to what comes

[wheat forum]

We where just talking about how to balance / make it somewhat fair on either party. As it stands the moment you have been grabed you can quit the game or decide to waste another 3H growing a dinosaur

[obtuse ocean]

Its called survival, tons of stuff will end alot of others in a instant. How it should be. A rex will do the same, in one bite.

Ofcourse i do agree that deino is "luck" cus i cant realy see it , that might need to change

[surreal cosmos]

well rex its counter is seeing it

[obtuse ocean]

Agreed

[surreal cosmos]

deinos is what ?

dont drink water ?

be lucky

[wheat forum]

Also carno might be small when it comes to weight but carnos have a lot of leg strength as they where build to run, also if you go by your principle A Deino should oneshot anything to its head as it has the bite foce of a 50cal impact

[surreal cosmos]

thats not a fun gameplay loop

for deino players or the people who just die

[obtuse ocean]

As i said, make it easier to see. But you beeing grabbed by a huge deino as carno/omni should be death

[wheat forum]

We should stop drinking water so we are more lucky and die to dehydration rather than luck when drinking 😂

[surreal cosmos]

just has to be double the size

[wheat forum]

That would also make no sense who would drink if they see a Deino in the water?

[surreal cosmos]

picking up a 1.8 ton animal isnt easy work lol

or bigger if a stego sub or something

[obtuse ocean]

Not me, but if i saw it. No food for deino. Im guessing you wont be walking over to a rex either

[wheat forum]

I would to mess it up with my raptor

[obtuse ocean]

I agree that its "luck" when i go drink atm, they might need to change that. So deino needs timing and understandng before it gets a grab. But grabbing a carno, shouldt even be a fight. Just like you walking over to a rex as carno, if it bites you. Your out : P

[surreal cosmos]

Nah a animal thats nearly two tons should be able to athleast able to fight even if its stands little chance

being picked up like a helpless baby is just plain dumb

or even a jump back mechanic

https://tenor.com/view/deer-croc-crocodile-drinking-gif-14831929

[wheat forum]

I mean a child getting obducted would punch you in the Di*k and you would let go so why can’t we scrape a Deinos eyes etc

[obtuse ocean]

so what its 2 tons, deino is what ? over twice

[surreal cosmos]

depends on its size

[obtuse ocean]

Both fully grown

[surreal cosmos]

right now a deino has to be 2x the wieght to pick up and walk away

[dusky surge]

because you're literally in its mouth

[surreal cosmos]

no fight just up you go into the water

to die

[wheat forum]

You have feet and claws that can scratch it also you didn’t get grabed from behind so your feet would point towards his face

[obtuse ocean]

It shouldt be a fight, it should be easy food for deino. Just as rex, the problem is not seeing it

[dusky surge]

can your feet and claws magically twist in 360 degree directions?

[surreal cosmos]

well omni gets grabbed upside down

so technically it could claw

[dusky surge]

it absolutely could not

[surreal cosmos]

Okay bud

this is why the isle is such a unbalanced game lol

[wheat forum]

Savage there is no point some people just think that what ever people say is stupid, I understand that skillchecks might not be the best solution or so but these two just prefer to sit underwater and win any fight 😂

[dusky surge]

an omni should not be able to escape deino lol

[surreal cosmos]

Replys to balance "nah no"